The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-15 00:00:00

places and pensions. That was now the question. If the
House should divide tonight on his motion, it would
have had the opinion of six Parliaments taken on it; for
he had already taken the sense of five Parliaments on the
question of giving these useless offices to military men.
He was aware that the Noble Lord could tell him now,
as on a former occasion, that he must not count on the
Noble Lord's vote for that ; that vote had never been
with him on this question, when the Noble Lord sat on
his side of the House. That was quite true ; but still he
must say that he thought the Noble Lord's opinions mis-
taken -on the question. The objection might be made
that this was a partial question, and that the House ought
in,t to decide about Londonderry or Berwick, hut upon
the question of principle itself. He agreed with that
objection now, and he thought that in this Parliament
we should look to principles ; hitherto every question
had been a question of expediency, of interest, and of
party favour; and the consequences of any one question
had never been fairly dealt with. In this new Parlia-
ment he hoped it would he different. If Ireland had
loudly demanded relief, and Ministers had wisely granted
it. did not England want relief in a similar manner ?
Every, or almost every Member, who had appeared
before a populous zonstituency, must have been called
upon to give his utmost support to measures of econo-
my and retrenchment. He knew that there were some
e inservative constituencies—the Universities of Cambridge
and Oxford for instance—(A laugh)—where this had not
been done ; but then they 'were exceptions to the rule, for
everywhere else the people had loudly demanded relief from
unnecessary taxation (all proper burdens they were most
willing to bear)—(Hear)—relief front sinecures and un-
merited pensions. With the last of these he had now
nothing to do. The question he should now submit to
the House was, whether sinecures should be continued or
not? He should read to the House a paper that would
exemplify the evils of these sinecures, and he ought to tell
them that it was not a paper which he had made for this
occasion, but which he had treasured up rid an occasion
should arise to bring it forward. It was a return made
to that House in 1816, and it was signed " H. Goulburn,"
whom he took to be ,he proper officer to return it. The
document stated that the Hon. H. C. Windham, Vie Secre

tart' and Clerk of Enrolments in Jamaica, received for that
office a sum of 4.5001. a year; tt,at he lad been in po•ses-
sion of it since 1763. and during the whole of that time
had resided in England. On the whole, that gentleman
had received a sum of 238 0001. of the pulilic money for
a sinecure office. The next person mentioned was the
lion. Percy Windham, who had received from another
sinecure office the sum of 334,0001. There were four
other sinecures mentioned in the same paper, amounting
in the whole to 1,062,0001., which seven individuals had
received, in a course of years, from the public money. Cal-
culating interest and compound interest on the sums paid
to these individuals, they would appear enormous, and the
sum would be more formidable when it was recollected,

that while the country had interest to pay on money bor-
rowed, every farthing expended that was not merited, was
so much in reduction of the means of paying the in-

serest of our debt—(Hear, bearj—and every such pay-
ment must be calculated at so much compound interest
until our debt was paid off. For that reason he had al-
ways objected to pensions in reversion—for that reason he
had objected to that granted to the Speaker by the late
Parliament, and he had shown that Speaker Onslow and
his son had, in th it manner, received a sum of 389,0001.
of the public Money for the fourteen years' service he had
rendered in that House. Thee statements were not ex-
agger tied, for it was evident that if the money thus ex-
ended on sinecures had been left in the public treasury, it
would have lessened the loans that had been contracted
to that precise amount, and the country would have been
so much the richer. He did not speak of individuals, but
of the public revenue. The sums we paid were almost
incredible, and in order to pay them we had often been
obliged to have recourse to loans. He complained of the
I ist Parliament for not having done what they ought with
regard to sinecures 'and useless places. The present
Parliament would act differently, and if he complained of
the last Parliament, be did so, because he thought he bad
more right than any other man to make such complaints
One thing, however, had been gained, and it was a matter
of great importance. If no other good had bee❑ obtained
by getting the Tories out of the saddle, there was at least
this—that the mystery of these places and sinecures could
be kept up no longer. The people had now got behind
the curtain, and the secrets were known. He asked
this new Parliament—this Reformed Parliament—whe-

ther it was or was not prepared to start on sound
principles ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) If it were prepared.
let it go with bim--(Cheers and laughter)—if he
proved that hi was. right.—(Hear.) He should have
little difficulty in 'establishing that point, if unshackled
reason-were allowed to aot, and if Hon. Members dis-
carded all notions of temporary expediency. He could
not believe that there was a man on the Treasury Bench
who could refuse to accompany him in a division, let the
result be what it might. It was material for him to show,
that the principle he .wished to -fix was not new ; for it
was One which even an' unreformed Parliament bad
adopted. In the session of 1809-10, a Finance Committee
was appointed, of which' Mr. Banker', the late Member
for Dorsetsbire, was the Chairman ; and among oth4r
matters, it made inquiries into pensions, sinecures, and re•
Versions. The result of that investigation he (Mr. Hume)
earnestly recommended to the attention of every man who
was anxious to ascertain the amount of the evil, and the
opinions of the day upon it. He referred the House,
therefore, to the third report of the Finance Committee
and its voluminous appendages, in the understanding of
which, the orders made yesteiday, on the motion of the
lion. Member for Perth, and himself, would be of con-
sidet able assistance. That Finance Committee consisted
of many men more conservative than any now sitting in
the House ; and nobody could accuse its Chairman of
entertaining many, or perhaps any of the opinions he (Mr.
Hume) professed, excepting that, now and then, the de-
sire of economy n the part of Mr. Bankes was stronger
than that which existed even in his mind. After great
deliberation, two resolutions, founded upon the report,
were brought before the House by the Member for Bodmin
(Mr. Davies Gidil)). They were proposed on the 31st of
May, 1810, and the first was—" That the utmost atten-
tion to economy in all the branches of the expenditure is'a
great and important duty." That resolution was adopted by
an unreformed House of Commons, and he (Mr. Hume)
only called upon the reformei House to follow the
example. The second resolution was as follows :
" That for this purpose, in addition to the useful and
effective measures already adopted by Parliament for the
abolition and regulation of sinecure offices and offices exe
cued by deputy, it is expedient to extend the like prin-
ciples to the abolition and regulation to such other cases,
as may appear to require and admit of the same." Toe
Committee, after going through all the details with the
most laudable industry, recognised this principle, and he
hoped that the House would affirm it—that no money
should be paid where services were not performed, or
had not been performed.—(HearAear.) It would appear
from the 65th volume of the Jollinals, that when these
resolutions were firought before the House, an amendment
was made and adoiged, stating -that the principle in the
report should be extended as soon as Ims3lajesty should
he enahhtf to recompecse extraordinaryiserviees by other
means. It Bill was accordingly- Introdoced fait the pur-
pose, and under it some of the Membeiff of tee 'leresent
Parliament, add others who were not Members, we'rre in '
the enjoyment of:pensiona. Any HOP. Getftleman ed fu
would read the Wrible proceeding, could not Alt to con*
to the conclusion at -id:bleb be had arrived, that*lter it
Government was bound io;abolish all sinecureso as rapidly,
as possible—some, indeed, •A
they had fallen in -had hi en''
abolished, but the specific queslien as to military andl
naval sinecures, had not yet beeri'-hrought before Par-
liament. He now introduced it, and ;,called upon the
House to carry into other branches the principle adopted
in 1810. It was particularly fortunate that since he
had given notice of the pre.sent motion, the 7.qoble Lord
(Althorp) had evinced
.a decided disposition to accord in
it, by stating his intention to bring in a Bill to abolish all
sinecures where three .years service had not been per-
formed. The Noble Lord, therefore, could not get otet
of the difficulty otherwise than by going through with
the principle... His notice clenched the matter,
unless the Noble Lord could show, either that art
argument, which applied to one man, did not
apply to another, or that the King had some se-
parate fund applicable to these payments. He was bound
to suppose that the great mass of those who now supported
Ministers were economically inclined ; and if any faith
were to be put in words there could be no doubt that
the Members of the Cabinet would rejoice in taking any
steps to promote a saving of the public money. He might
quote upon this point the declarations of many ; but-he
would only briefly refer to a speech delivered by the Noble
Lord now on the Woolsack, when .Itlr.' ‘Brougham. To
the Right Honourable Baronet, the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty, he'need surely pot appeal on re question of this
ikind ; he (Me.- Hume)" "assure of his irate.; he had been
eaipillar of Reform and retrenchment when. out of office,
andshis speech on the eums;paid to Privy CounsellMes
priuld.:long be. reinembered.--(Cheers.) He hoped the
'11414". Itonuparcinet (Sir J. GrahAM) would not now
'f!tirliWojieek, Irtek for granted, that now he had the
'power., he: tell to carry into effect his own princi-
Pfeseelle (Mr. 1-Tii4e) cared not a pin for the opinions, of
. any man out of office-if *hen in office he.did not adhere to
titt,rn, and do his utmost to give effect to them.—(Cheent.)
lc. )vas desirable, therefore, that the Right Honourable Ba-