The Sun.
London, England, 1856-07-02 00:00:00

through Mr. Howe, to whom the receipt was made out,
and the most remarkablel part of the proceeding was
this, that in acknowledging the despatch admitting this
fact Mr. Crampton said he saw nothing wrong in any-
thing that Mr. Mathew had done, and in fact be took
upon himaelf all the responsibility. Hertz, it appears,
was on very friendly terms with Mathew, for Mathew
said he went one morning int ) his bedroom and with
oaths and protestations induced him to lend hies fifty
dollars, but that he bad not the honesty to repay him the
amount. Now, was it true that the Government had
spent the public money in carrying out what Mr. Marcy
had properly called these " unseemly contests ?" He did
not know whether the Government had thus spent the
public money or not. If they had, they of coursesai•
witted that these men were their agents. (Hear.) Bet
it appeared plain that Mr. Crampton had given Strobel
money, and that S•Tobel by such means at once became
the agent of Mr. Crampton, who was responsible for his
acts. Mr. Crampton in one of his letters stated that
on his arrival at Halifax Captain Strobel waited
upon him and informed him that there were many
Germans and others there who would gladly
join if the requirements of the British Nation were
only made known to them. Upon that representation Mr.
Crampton gave him money to carry on his operations.
He (Mr. M. Gibson) very much regretted that her Ma-
jesty's Government were mixed up with prooeediogs such
as these, and he repudiated any enlistment whatever
with the United States. At the same time he was very
much surprised that when this course was decided upon
the agents of her Majesty's Mini,ters did not atonee.put
themselves in friendly communication with the American
Government. The opinion of Judge Kane bad been ad-
verted to as sanctioning the proceeding of the English
Government, but that icemen judge, in the course of the
trial of Hertz, said he was surprised to hear that whilst
the British press was fulminating against the Americans,
there were agents of the British Government drawing
away persons to fight the battles of a people who were
not very courteously pressing siren them (the Americans)
the duty of neutrality. He hoped nothing that bad oc-
curred would at all injure our relations with the United
States. He believed it amounted to nothing more than a
difference between the American Government and the
Government of our awn country. The English House of
Commons bad nothing to do with Mr. Marcy, Mr.
Cushing, or President Pierce, but with their own Minis-
ters, and it was his deliberate opinion that they had not
done well in picking this quarrel with the United States
for the purpose of getting a few miserable Germans.
Mr. BAXTER said there were considerations which
might render it not inappropriate that he should make a
few observations. He was intimately connected commer-
cially with the United States, and hat spent many years
of his life there, with a view to obtain information upon
the social and political condition of the States. He had
no sympathy with those who spoke of the United States
not as a child whom we ought to cherish, but as a
rival whom we ought to chain and bridle. No doubt
the constitution of the United States had many defects,
which filled thinking men with dismay. But we should
not be too sensitive or prone to find faint, but being
ready to make all allowances, we should treat their
shortcomings with generosity and magnanimity. He
confessed that before reading the papers laid upon the
table by command of her Majesty, he had a strong bias
in favour of the Americans, but a careful perusal of them
had led him to the conclusion that the House of Com-
mons had no right to pass such a censure, as that con-
tained in the resolution, on her Majesty's Government,
and he had framed an amendment, which he understood
by the forms of the house he could not put, to the effect
that the resolution was unjust by implication to Mr.
Crampton, and directly to her Majesty's Government.
He regretted that Mr. Crampton did not communicate
to Mr. Marcy what were the intentions of her Majesty's
Government. He did not make such a communication,

and therefore if there was any error in this matter, it

certainly was at the door of Mr. Crarnpton himself.
(Bear.) In saying this, however, he did not stand there
as the apologist of her Majesty's Government, but for
the purpose of expressing his own opinions as an inde-
pendent member of the House of Commons. Then,
with respect to her Majesty's Government, and to
the course they took in this matter. That Lord Claren-
don did make some unguarded statements could not be
denied, but they were soon recalled, and the American
Government had stated its full satisfaction with the ex-
planations her Majesty's Government had rendered. In
every other despatch Lord Clarendon had adopted that
conciliatory and generous tone which the people of this
country had a right to demand. (Hear.) Then it must
he recollected that Mr. Marcy, Mr. Attorney. General
Cushing, Mr. Vandyke, and others—not newspaper edi-
tors, but gentlemen holding important situations under
the federal Government—bad used language of the most
insulting and irritating nature. He could not help coin-
ing to the conclusion that her Majesty's Government
had acted in a most generous and conciliatory spirit to-
wards a people with whom this nation would always de-
sire to be at peace. If President Pierce and others had
acted in a similar spirit, many of the difficulties that bad
followed would have been avoided. He 'had no hesita-
tion in saying that while they were blustering about
war with England, it was only civil war that they
feared. (Hear.)

Mr. PEACO'CKE did not mean to deny that Ame-
rica was a great and rising nation. He did not mean to

deny that the Americani spoke English, or that they
hospitably entertained the hon. gentleman who had just
sat down. (Laughter.) But he did mean to deny the
statement that had been made that this was an improper
time for the discussion of this question. It was constantly
said when the question was raised that the present was
not the proper time for considering it ; but now there
were no negotiations pending, for they had terminated
most disastrously to the fame and honour of this coun•
try. Mr. Crampton admitted that be had corresponded
with Strobel in cipher, that he gave people instruc-
tions as to the beet way of being enlisted, that he
made arrangements for evading the laws of the Unit-
ed States, and that he went to Halifax, there more
fully to carry out his plan et operations. The
hon. gentleman proceeded to read some extracts from

the co-rre3ponden.ce with a view to show that the course

of proceeding which Mr. Crampton carried out was part
of a policy adopted by the Government at home, and
carried out by their agents abroad. He then referred to
the case of Mr. Curtis, our consul at Cologne, who was
condemned for enlisting contrary to law, but was par-
doned on the declaration made by him that he was acting
under the direction of the British Government. That
was precisely an analogous case to that which had taken
place in the United States, and he contended that if Mr.
Crampton were right he should have been upheld at the
risk of the loss of Mr. Dallas. If ho were wrong ho
should have been recalled. Instead of that advice being
taken, this country had adopted a mean course, at the
suggestion of the noble lord at the head of the Govern.

meat—the orator of Roinsey, and the rhetorician of the
Mansion-house ; who had stated that he would protect
the meanest of England's subjects, and yet had suc-
cumbed, when there was the slightest appearance of
danger.
Mr. SPOONER said he would not enter upon the
merits of tbis question, for he believed that the more it
was discussed the more dangerous it would become. The
resolution visited her Majesty's Government with dis-
approbation, while the American Government was per-
fectly satisfied. (Hear, hear, and No, no.) An insult
not intended was not an insult, and any one who re-
sented it when it was not intended knew the conduct of

neither a Christian nor a gentleman. (Hear, hear.) If
the Government had sent back Mr. Dallis*, they would
have committed the most desperate act that could be
conceived, and would have plunged the two countries
into an inevitable war. (Loud cheers.) We could
afford to be magnanimous and wait patiently under
false accusations until, God grant, the diffarenca could
be settled satisfactorily between the two countries, lie
would not, therefore, enter into the merits of the ques-
tion ; he had his own opinions on the subject, and
would not venture to express any opinion on the points
so ably argued by the honourable and learned Attorney-
General and the hon. and learned member for Stamf ,rd

last night. He did not profess to 7n,:ierstand the legal
bearing of the points in question. He would recommend
those hon. members who laughed at this expression of
his ignorance themselves to get up and point out in
what respect either of these learned gentlemen were
wrong. Believing that the present was not the proper
time for arguing the question, he should decline to pro-
nounce any opinion on the subject, and would vote for

going into committee of supply.
Mr. GLADSTONE—Sir, the speech which has just
been delivered by my hon. friend marks a feature in
this debate so important, and so much connected with
the vote that I shall probably give myself at its close,
that although I am likely upon a division tb go into the
same lobby with the hon. member, yet I think there is
no impropriety in ruy following him in discussion. It ap-
pears to me that the two cardinal aims which we oughtto
keep in view in the discussion of this question are peace
and a thoroughly cordial understanding with America for
one, the honour and fame of England for the other. 1
am bound to say that in regard to neither of these points
am I satisfied with the existing state of things, or with
the conduct of her Majesty's Government. A cordial
understanding with America has not, been preserved ; the
honour of this country has been compromised. Sir, I
am not one who will set up the phantasm of honour in a
case where the plea appears to me unreal, or who will
condescend to separate between honour and the honour-
able conduct of which it ought to be the symbol. But as
respects the honour of England, I assent—l cannot but
assent—to the statement of the hon. and learned gentle.
man who has already spoken from an opposite bench,
that what is considered by the world to be an insult—.
that which, at any rate, cannot but be called an insult—
has been put upon EOgland by the Government of the
United States. Ras it been put with or without a cause ?
If with a cause,lt ought to be confessed ; if without a
cause it ought to be resented. Sir, lam bound to say that
upon this question my feelings are such that it would
be impossible for me to meet with a direct negative the
motion of the hon. member for Mayo. I could not say
' No" to a motion which states that the conduct of her
Majesty's Government in regard to enlistment in Ame-
rica has not entitled them to the approval of this house.
Nor do I mean simply to take my stand, when I say I
am likely to vote with the hon. member for North War-
wickshire, upon the circumstance—though it is an im-
portant one—that we are not called upon to say "Ay "
or "No" to that question. The question which you,
Sir, will put from the chair, that we should go into
CJramittee of Supply, gives to the matter the technical
Parliamentary aspect of what is called the " previous
I question ;" but, at the same time, I must say that I do
not concur in the censures which have been bestowed
' upon the hon. member for Mayo with respect to the time
of bringing forward his motion. (Hear, hear.) Yet the
•
question is one of the greatest difficulty. I cannot hay