The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-13 00:00:00

IRISH PARLIAMENTS.

Mr. BISH brought forward the motion of which he
had given notice, that an humble address be pre-
sented to his Majesty, praying that he would be pleased
to hold his Parliament occasionally in Ireland.
His object merely was the pacification of Ireland.
Much of the difficulty he might experience was
smoothed down by the fact, that his motion
had nothing to do with party or politics,—that it
might be supported by the ins as well as those who
had gone out of office ( Laughter)—by the corpora
tors as well as the anti-corporators, and by Whigs,
Tories, and Radicals. ( Laughter.) It deserved also
the support of repealers and anti-repeal ers. It would
show the former that they had nothing to seek for, and
the latter that they had nothing to fear. Many of
the members of that house, the hon. members for
Dublin, and for Edinburgh, and for Liverpool, and
for many other towns, called each other hon. and
learned friends. Now he would call himself honour-
able and learned too (Laughter), for he should pro-
ceed after their manner to prove his case. It had

bath said
tnat such a motion as this was interfering
with the King's prerogative. This he denied. There
was nothing dictatorial in his motion, for it only con-
tained a prayer. ( A laugh.) He did hope when the
present government came into office that they would
have done something to remedy the degraded
state that Ireland was in—the disgusting state
(Loud laughter)—he did not mean it offensively,
but it was really disgusting to see that eotintry
in such a situation, lie wa.§ greatly disappointed in
the present gbVernhient. They had done nothing for
Irelarid. The great stumbling-block to the prosperity
of Ireland was absenteeism. Unless the absentees
could be got back to Ireland, that country never would
he quiet ; and to get them back you must make the
land palatable, for until it was palatable to them they
could never be got back. ( A laugh.) The absentees
would not return to Ireland as it was ; they would not
go there in its present state, since they very well
knew they would run the danger of having their
throats cut for them once a week. ( Laughter.) The
very announcement that a Court and Parliament were
about to be held in Ireland would do the greatest good.
Though he did not intend to complain of the present
Irish magistracy, he believed that before absenteeism
prevailed there was a better set of resident gentlemen
and magistrates in Ireland. (Laughter.) The fact
was that persons holding official situations—persons
connected with government—were totally strangers to
Ireland and to Irish matters. The only gentleman in
the house belonging to the government that knew
anything about Ireland was then out of the house.
( Loud laughter.) The truth was, all that Englishmen
knew of their own country was the shortest way to get
out of it. If his motion were agreed to, the advantages
derived from it would pay much more than the ex-
penses attendant upon it, and in the end he ventured
to prophesy there would be a considerable saving to
the revenue. If Ireland were quiet, English capi-
talists would go there. Party spirit ran high in Ire-
land ; and he was sorry to see that persons in office in
Ireland encouraged this spirit. Now, if he were in
power, and if he had any control over them, they
should soon go to the right-about. (Laughter.) He
had been much among the Irish ; he knew something
of them, and he knew that all they wanted was to
have good social feeling kept up between this country
and them. He recollected the time when Dublin was
a gay and lively city, but a total change had lately
taken place in its appearance; it looked just now as if
the cholera had taken possession of it. (Laughter.)
Where were its resident nobility and gentry ? They
were fled, and were squandering their money and their
time in foreign lands. ( Hear, from the Irish members. )
There was a way of bringing a real union about be-
tween the two countries. The real union he meant
was a pleasant, and he hoped that to the Irish members
it would prove an unobjectionable one : it was that
pleasant union that might be effected by marriages
and intermarriages between the sons and daughters
of both countries. ( Roars of laughter, and cheers
from the Irish members.) This was the union they
wanted—this was the union that would never create a
wish for separation. (Laughter.) He could scarcely
contemplate precisely the extent of the beneficial con-
sequences of such an union. How much money and
how much of everything also would be spent when
Irish and English families were mixed up in this way.
If a court and parliament were over in Ireland great
markets and everything of that kind would be soon
established there. Ireland might even be made the
resort of fashion. She possessed within her bowels
plenty of mineral and other waters ( Roars of laugh-
, ter), for the gratification and attraction of persons of
every degree. The result of the success of his mo-
tion would be to increase the wealth, ay, and the popu-
lation, of the empire into the bargain. (Laughter. )
It would be advantageous even to the Royal Family.
They would be no longer State prisoners. He could
never understand why the King was made a State
prisoner of, the moment he came to the throne.
Until he became King he might go where he liked, do
what he liked, and nobody took any notice of him.
( A laugh.) His motion would give him greater
freedom. Besides, it would be the cause of great
convenience to that house, it would rid it of Irish
business, and Irish members in their own Par-
liament would look after their own affairs. The hon.
gentleman here alluded to a speech of Mr.
O'Connell's, spoken, we believe, out of doors, and said
that that hon. and learned member very justly
complained that, in consequence of a separate Parlia-
ment, Irish members were obliged to leave their homes
and their families to come to this country, and to take
their place beside a set of foreign legislators : and,
moreover, that they were obliged to live in garrets
with cats and dogs. (Laughter.) He would conclude
by moving (though he had asked nobody to second
the motion), " That an humble address be presented to
his Majesty that he will be graciously pleased to hold
his Court and Parliament occasionally in that part of
the United Kingdom called Ireland."
Mr. RUTHVEN seconded the motion. He re-
gretted the manlier in which it had been received by
the house ; it deserved something better at the hands
of hon. gentlemen than to be treated with mirth and
merriment.

The question was then put.
Mr. LALOR thought it better that the motion
should not be pressed to a division, but if it were he
would certainly support it.
The gallery was then cleared for a division. None
took place, and the motion was accordingly negatived.
THE REGISTRAR OF OSSORY.

Mr. LITTLETON rose to move that Mr. Grace,
the registrar of the diocese of Ossory, be called to the
bar for not making certain returns in obedience to the
order of the house. An order had been made at the
early part of the session for certain returns, which had
been obeyed by all the registrars in Ireland except the
person he had alluded to, who had, instead of making
the returns, entered into a frivolous controversy with
Sir W. Gossett. He (Mr. Littleton) therefore moved
that Mr. Grace be ordered to attend on this day fortnight.
Mr. SH A W had received a letter from this person,
in which he stated that he was unable to make some
of the returns. It would be too much to make him
come to the bar when his disobedience of the orders of
the house did not arise from any want of respect to the
house, but from want of knowledge.
After a few words from Mr. LITTLETON,WT. HUME,
and Mr. RUTHVEN, the motion was agreed to.
POST OFFICE.

Mr. R. WALL ACE moved for a copy of any letter
or other document transmitted to the treasury by the
late commissioners of revenue inquiry, in reply to the
statements made by the Post-office department in the
reports made by the said commissioners.
Lord AL THO RP had no objection to lay the do-
cument on the table of the house, but this could not
be done until his noble friend the Duke of Richmond
had made those observations on the document which
he might deem necessary, and which would be laid on
the table at the same time.

Mr. R. WALL ACE hoped that it would be printed
with as little delay as possible.
Lord A L T H 0 R P— Certainly.
Motion agreed to.
POSTMASTER-GENERAL.
Mr. R. WALL ACE rose to move that an address
be presented, praying that his Majesty will be gra-
ciously pleased to place the office of Postmaster-Gene-
ral under a Board of Commissioners, as had been
strongly recommended from time to time in the reports
made by three commissions appointed to inquire into
and report on the management of the Post-office. He
would not have brought the subject under the atten-
tion of the house did he not think it most desirable. for
the public service to make the alteration which he
proposed. It was not merely an abstract question
whether they should have a Postmaster-General or a
Board of Commissioners to perform the duties of that
office. Not less than three different boards of revenue
inquiry had recommended that the office of Postmaster-
General should be put into commission. He was
sure, if the house looked into the detail of the Post-
office, it would be found that a great saving would re-
sult from this change, and that the adoption of it would
tend to the advancement of this branch of the public
service. It had been said. that the only saving that
could accrue to the public from this change was the
mere difference between the amount of salaries to be
paid to the Commissioners and the salary now paid to
the Postmaster-General; but, in point of fact, the
change of system that would result from the adop-
tion of his proposition would lead to a saving
of between two and three hundred thousand pounds
a year. He was sure also that three efficient com-
missioners could be found whose salaries would not
amount to more than the sum now paid to the Post-
master-General. He meant those men of business
who would perform the duties of the office in the most
able manner. He was satisfied that no Peer of Par-
liament could perform these duties and at the same
time attend to the business of Parliament. Again,
there was annexed to the office of Postmaster-Gene-
ral the most fearful and dangerous patronage, and
which had become more dangerous since the Reform
Bill had passed. The Postmaster-General had the
appointment of all the postmasters and the other
officers connected with the department in England,

Ireland, Scotland, and the colonies. He had not only
immense patronage in this country, but throughout
the whole empire. It was well known that this pa-
tronage had been, and was likely to become more so,
the nucleus of political influence in almost every city
and town in the country. As a proof of the extent of
the patronage annexed to this office he would merely
mention the circumstance that there were 1,500 post-
masters to be appointed. Ile admitted that improve-
ments had taken place in the department since the
Duke of Richmond had been appointed to the situation
of Postmaster-General. To that noble duke the coun-
try was indebted for those facilities of communicating
with France which had been recently adopted. In
addition to that it was through the agency of that no-
ble duke that means had been adopted for facilitating
the extension of the knowledge of the literature of this
country over the whole of Europe, and more particu-
larly that which was the most important part of litera-
ture, sound political knowledge. He thought that
the country was indebted to the noble duke for the
manner in which he had transacted the affairs of the
department over which he presided. ( Hear.) The
hon. member concluded with proposing his motion.
Mr. H LTME seconded the motion. His hon.
friend had forgotten to state a very important reason
why the Postmaster-General should not be a political
man, but which had been mentioned by the commis-
sioners. In consequence of the Postmaster-General
being a political agent he was changed with every ad-
ministration, and the result was that the management
of the department was left in the hands of the secre-
tary. This had been the case for the last thirty-five
years. He did not wish to say anything harsh of the
individual who held the office of secretary, and he
(Mr. Hume) admitted that during the time that Sir
F. Freeling had held that office he had assiduously
attended to and faithfully discharged his public duties.
( Hear.) It was impossible, however, for any one to
doubt, who had read the reports on the table, that there
was no department of Government in which less im-
provements Ind been made during the last 15 years than
in the Post-office. He did not allude to the last three
or four years, in which time there certainly had been
made many desirable changes. If. however, the Post-
office had been under the management of Com-
missioners instead of a Postmaster-General, he had
no doubt a very different state of things would have
existed there from what obtained at present. Had proper
attention been paid the present inequality of postage,
which caused so many complaints would not have existed.
Why not manage the Post-office as the Excise, Cus-
toms, and Stamps, namely, have Commissioners, who
should be directed to communicate with one of the
Lords of the Treasury in cases of emergency ? He
perhaps carried his notions on the subject farther than
notmost
be persons,
made
a source
et
eh thought g hr
et
,t
oh
na
ut thee n Pao st - o ffi ce should
well-regulated
country, but merely the means of imparting informa-
tion. In the United States a letter could be sent
2,000 miles for nearly the same sum that was charged
for a letter from St. Alban's. In a country like
England, with its excellent roads and other facili-
ties of communication, the charge for postage should
be comparatively little. At the present moment his
Majesty's Government had the opportunity of making
this desirable change which the interests of the coun-
try called for. He did not so much regard whether
three individuals, or one individual only, was
appointed, as that care was taken that ample time was
devoted to the business of the office, and that no per-
son having control in the department should be mixed
up in politics. He was sure if the change which he
had suggested was adopted, that the revenue would be
increased ; the inequality in the charge for postage
would be removed ; and, above all, that a great reduc-
tion would be made in the charge for postage. In
conclusion, he recommended that the laws relative to
the Post-office should be consolidated, as they were
almost unintelligible at present.
Mr. V. SMITH admitted that one strong reason
had been urged for the present motion, and in which
he was sure that the whole country would concur, viz.,
the extreme difficulty that there would be in finding a
person to discharge the duties of the office of Post-
master-General so efficiently as they had been per-
formed by the noble duke who recently filled that
office. (Hear.) The candid and manly manner in
which that noble duke treated all those who were
called upon to transact business with him, had been a
source of general gratification. During the short pe-
riod of his (Mr. Smith's) public life, he never recol-
lected a person with whom he had been called upon to
transact business who exhibited more anxiety to per-
form the duties of his office to the satisfaction of the
country, or who had better succeeded in attaining that
object. (Hear.) He (Mr. Smith) did not think,
however, that the hon. gentleman could imagine
that the house could agree to the present motion.
The hon. gentleman had stated that if reference
was made to the reports of these commissioners of
revenue inquiry, it would be found that they all con-
curred in the views he entertained on the subject.
He (Mr. Smith) denied that the hon. gentleman was
warranted in drawing such an inference. He would,
however, proceed to examine the advantages which
both the hon. members said would be derived from a
change. In the first place, it had been contended
that the Postmaster-General should not be a political
officer. The hon. member, however, had complained
on a former occasion that the Post-office was not
directly represented in Parliament. If this were to
be done it was absolutely necessary that the head of
it should be in Parliament. With reference, however,
to the appointment of commissioners, it was unne-
cessary for him to take up much time. All men who
had been engaged in business must know that autho-
rity in certain cases must emanate from an individual ;
and, if a board of commissioners were appointed,
either the chief commissioner or the secretary must in
certain cases have a controlling voice. This was the
case in the excise, customs, and stamps, in all which
boards the chairman decided on important occasions.
This was also the case at the Board of Treasury,
at which the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or,
in his absence, the Secretary of the Treasury,
had the greater influence. It was not only de-
sirable but absolutely necessary that such a controlling
power should exist. Again, the question of economy
could be much better gone into when the document
for which the hon. member had moved was laid on the
table, as it would tend greatly to elucidate the sub-
ject. The hon. gentleman said that the adcption of
the change he proposed would lead to a saving of be-
tween 200,000/. and 300,0001. How this was to be
effected he (Mr. V. Smith) was extremely anxious to
learn, and he was sure that his noble friend (Lord Al-
thorp) would feel very glad to lay his hands on such
a sum. The hon. gentleman seemed to assume that
it was much better to intrust a Board with patronage
than an individual. This he (Mr. V. Smith) denied ;
and he was sure the house would concur with him in
thinking that it was much better that any patronage
that existed should be placed under the control of one
individual, responsible to Parliament, than under three
or four persons, who might easily shuffle the responsi-
bility of their official patronage from one to the other.
[At this stage of the debate Mr. C. Wood brought
up a paper (The Sun newspaper express) to Lord
Althorp announcing the return of Mr. Spring Rice
for Cambridge, which, on being circulated, elicited
loud cheers from the ministerial sides of the house.]
The hon. member proceeded to say that he was anxious
that the discussion as to the advantages of a Board of
Commissioners should be postponed to a future occa-
sion, when they would have the advantage of the at-
tendance of his right hon. friend the Secretary for the
Colonies, who he (Mr. Smith) was happy to state
had just been elected to a seat in that house. (Hear.)
The hon. member for Greenock appeared to entertain
very peculiar notions on the subject of patronage :
indeed he (Mr. Smith) believed that the hon. mem-
ber formerly thought that the members of Parliament
should have the patronage of all places in the borough
they represented. The hon. gentleman contended
that the head of the Post-office should be a political
officer, inasmuch as the duties to be performed by him
were, for the most part, of a political nature. The
admission, for instance, of foreign newspapers into
every part of the country was a political act, and
therefore he hoped the house would not consent to
place that department under the management of a
Board, instead of leaving it, as at present, in the
hands of a political officer. It was utterly impossible
that any board could regulate the patronage or admi-
nister the affairs of the Post-office as efficiently as a
single individual, and upon that ground alone he had
a right to call upon the house to reject this motion.
Mr. WALL ACE in reply, had not when he brought
his motion forward the least expectation that it would
be successful, and therefore it was not his intention to
put the house to the trouble of a division upon it. The
reforms which he desired to see effected in this esta-
blishment must ultimately be carried, and, although
he
failed now in the object which he had in view, heshould
not therefore desist from doing all in his
whatever for having the manage
uentcer,
and it was his
ac-
complish it. He thought that thereNy
placed in the hands of a political
it
tment would
rs of that epar
opinion that the affai
headof it resided on the spot,
best administered if the
De:or:floe sertc-eosffis ct ev

and had no other duties to attend to. He agreeA,
however, with the hon. gentleman who had just sat
down as to the necessity of having one responsible
person at the head of every public board or department,
and if the office of Postmaster-General could only bo
filled by a Peer of the realm, then he was bound to say
that lie should be very glad indeed, to see the noble
duke who had retired from that office restored to it.

Lord AL TH ORP said that no one could possibly
be more constant or unremitting in his attention to the
duties of his office than his noble friend the Duke of
Richmond had been, and if his successor should be
fortunate enough to discharge the duties of the office
with equal efficiency all he (Lord Althorp) need say
was, that not only the hon. member (Mr. Wallace)
but every other member of that house must be perfectly
satisfied with him. ( Hear, hear.) Of course a great
deal of patronage attached to the office of Postmaster-
General, but in the distribution of that patronage his
noble friend had never once lost sight of the principles
of justice and economy. His noble friend was the
person who had effected such a considerable saving in
the retired allowances of Post-office clerks. By ap-
t pointing these clerks to be postmasters in country
towns as vacancies occurred, he not only did the indi-
viduals themselves a great service, but saved the public
the burden of their pensions. (Hear, hear.) It was
not the fault of his noble friend that arrangements were
not made for the free transmission of pamphlets and
newspapers through the medium of the Post-office.
Such an arrangement had long been under his noble
friend's consideration, and the reason why it was not
carried into effect was because the expense it would oc-
casion would be much greater than any advantages
which could result from it.
Mr. R. WALLACE then withdrew his motion.
TRIGONOMETRICAL SURVEY OF
IRELAND.

Mr. LALOR moved—
" That there be laid before this house a statement of
the progress made in the trigonometrical survey of Ireland;
stating the date when the survey was begun, the amount
already expended for the survey, and an estimate of the
time and expense that will be required to complete the
survey, supposing the establishment now employed to be
continued. Also a return of the establishment maintained
in the year 1833, stating the number of each class, and the
salary and allowances of each class, and of the whole ex-
pense of the year, including the contingent charges ; and
also for a return of the sums advanced from the Exchequer
for the valuation of lands and tenements in the several
btThaterEo:nmoi eNos
u,:iptaasrnitdshhaetms
have been
wboetAehnßeßr
repaid.udßsiNo ,ntshthe o
ef
amount c or ue
tn
rt i en s
due,s in
ner
re
and
the under 7 Geoi ge IV., and 1 and 2 William IV., and
r.
the times fixed for the repayment of the balance."
After some observations from Mr. HOME, Mr. LlT-
ordered.

SPANISH CLAIMS.
Lord EBRINGTON, who was absent when his
name was called on by the Speaker, now rose to bring
forward the motion of which he had given notice
amidst cries of " Oh, oh." The noble lord then ad-
verted to the property of British subjects which was
sequestered by the Government of Spain at the com-
mencement of the war in 1805, and moved, " That a
select committee be appointed to examine into the
cairns of certain British subjects to be indemnified for
the confiscation of their property by the Spanish Go-
tvin of
eornme
war
iinbeltBwoe4en GandrelaBt Britainpreviousos,and
tsopaiitln.
ed„eclara-

Mr. BAINE S seconded the motion.
The question having been put,
Lord ALTHORP must protest against the course
which his noble friend had adopted. If they were to
entertain this case they would, by and by, be called
upon to give satisfaction for every capture that had
been made before war had been formally declared.
The principle was one which they could not possibly
adopt. It was on this ground that he objected to his
noble friend's motion.
Dr. LU S HINGTON felt the utmost difficulty in
bringing his mind to any conclusion on the case which
his noble friend (Lord Ebrington) had brought under
the consideration of the house. It was contrary to the
law of nations to confiscate property not afloat at the
commencement of a war, and he had yet to be con-
vinced that the capture of the Spanish frigates, which
had led to the sequestration of the property Of these
claimants, was other than a violation of the law of
i r as.
Hume, the seizure
a division
vi was
sion madeok nations—an act of atrocious, cold-blooded cruelty,
perpetrated during a time of peace.
Mr. V.
tor . SMITH
Richards,lTs a id
and
that
on the high seas, and not in the ports of Spain, he
would oppose the motion.
After a few words from Mr. Robinson, Lord Al-
thorp,place—
For the motion 28
Against it 62
Majority —34
CIVIL BILL COURT (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. LITTLETON moved the second reading of
the Civil Bill Court (Ireland) Bill. He said he was
extremely desirous to consult the wishes of the Irish
Members, and would abandon any parts of the bill
which were gnerally deemed objectionable by them.
After some conversation, the bill was read a second
time and committed for Friday the 20th.
Mr. HUME wished to ask the noble lord (Althorp)
if he would object to his bringing forward at an early
period a proposition for building a new House of Com-
mons ?
Lord ALTHORP gave no answer.
The report on the County Coroners Bill was brought
up and agreed to. The bill was ordered to be en-
grossed and read a third time on Monday next.
Mr. HUNIE gave notice that he would move to
reduce the mileage to Is. per mile.
The house went into committee on the GlasgoW
Lotteries Bill. house re-
The bill having been gone through, the
sum p
ed, and the reort was brought up. (Ire-
On the question that the Warrants of Distress
land) Bill be read a third time, sure as
Mr. O'REILLY protested against the mead
,
injurious to the poor, and moved as an amen
day m
6ent_
That the bill be read a third time this ix
months."
Mr. LAL OR supported the amendment.
The house divided—
.............................. 32
Ayes
N0e5.............................. 6
26

3lajority -----' a•
The bill was then read a third time and passe
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. ur..
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thenrose, leave
suance of the notice he had given, to move for
e_.
to bring in a bill to abolish imprisonment for debt.
t,•or
cept in cases of fraud, and to amend the law of deD
and creditor ; as, however, he did not anticipate anog_
serious objection in that preliminary stage of the pro-
ceeding, ~
he should not find it necessary to °eel!,
'
much time in explaining the outlines of theseeas_,d
which, with the permission of the house, shout_
have the honour of introducing. He was anxioutasioi;
the first place, to justify himself from the imp 1
uThere
of any delay in bringing the subject forward.
' • isonment
was nothing nearer his heart than tuat impr
of fraud
for debt should be abolished, except inhcaas
in a bill m
given notice of a motion for leavebt h
he ceased to be a
object ; 11 •
order to accomplish that
he very evening for which
and on the first day of the session
tohe
member of that house on day, however, on
t very
his notice stood.
Thoethat house he renewed the
which he was restored
rose
to make the motion as ex-
notice, and he now.bye.
(Hear, hear, hear.) He
peditiously as possihel
be
merits of the question
would not go into ti riodgeasceordingly
d be the power of arresting for
whether there
that eras a subject which had been verY
debt or not
discussed,
at length on one side or on the other
arguments stated
in the fourth report of the cotillion
yrnissioners ; but there was one authorityarid
. ,_
:betinihsed, and those who wished to see the
D.
not been generally adverted to---1
e was disposed to place great reliance,
eant
lewaohwpiicoth:omslil
I he
.°" in
t:vh. which
clidi ifi'authorityandd
as in poli-
general philosophical jurisprudence as '
tics, and which lie would shortly refer tionven
t°roduced into
occasion. In 1780 a bill had been .
: ionent for debt
that house for the abolition of imPr'ss°,pport of Mr.
on mesne process ; it received thlehe Was reproached
Burke, and when he went to Bristo .
e to read to the
for having done so. He begged
whichleav that great man
house an extract from the reply
t the fate of many
made upon that occasion. was
I h was
setoor of the country,
hustings speeches to live inst
aboutei toyquote would be
but that from which
he-apleasure and profit as long
read and referred to with.
emained. Mr. Burke said'
as the English lang,age
bill lwas a law of justice and pad
~ Lord Beauchamp sits
't went; I say as went, far it for its fault WO
as far as ie•
in the
remedial part, miserably defectif.
being, faults in • latl°/1
There are two capital
.A
to civil debts. One is, that every man is presuri3.l;
solvent—a presumption, in innumerable cases, direefis
against truth. Therefore the debtor is ordered, li,
supposition of ability and fraud, to be coerced is
liberty until lie makes payment. By this meanf;oo
the present
all cases of civil insolvency, without a pardon
and
his creditor, lie is to be imprisoned for life,io,ll
thus a miserable mistaken invention of art

science operates to change a civil into a criminal
, judgment, and to scourge misfortune or indiscretion
with a punishment which the law does not inflict
on the greatest crimes. The next fault is, that the in-
flicting of that punishment is not on the opinion of an
t equal and public judge ; but it is referred to the arbi-
trary discretion of a private, nay, interested and irri-
tated individual. He who formally is, and substan-
tially ought to be, the judge, is in reality no more than
ministerial, a mere executive instrument of a private
man, who is at once judge and party. Every idea of
judicial order is subverted by this procedure. If the
insolvency be no crime, why is it punished with arbi-
trary imprisonment ? If it be a crime, why is it deli-
vered into private hands to pardon without discretion,
or to punish without mercy and without measure ? I
know that credit must be preserved, but equity must be
preserved too ; and it is impossible that anything
should be necessary to commerce which is inconsistent
With justice." Upon that authority, and on the gene-
ral reasoning of the subject, he submitted that the
time had now arrived when imprisonment for debt both
on mesne process and on execution should, except in
cases of fraud, be abolished. It was monstrous that in
a free country a man might be deprived of his liberty
Without the judgment of any competent tribunal, at
the instance and merely on the. oath of a vindictive
Party, and that too, it might be, on fraudulent pre-
tences. The expense of giving bail was a great
detriment to the debtor, as also to the creditor, because
its effect was to take away from the funds with which
the just debts of the individual ought to be satisfied.
The only object of imprisonment for debt in this
country was to get at the property of the debtor; he
should not thereore propose abolishing imprisonment,
unless he could offer some equivalent to the creditor,
and introduce a general amendment in the law of debtor and creditor. There were several improve-
,
raents to be now proposed which he thought would
operate most beneficially, and to which he would very
briefly refer. He proposed, first of all, that there
should be a power of instant execution upon all
bills of exchange, promissory notes, and bonds.
When a man put his hand solemnly to instruments
of that sort, it was monstrous to allow him, without
any shadow of pretence, to have a trial, to put in sham
pleas, and thus, perhaps, to cause greater expense to
the creditor than the original amount of the debt.
(year.) There was nothing like this in Scotland, in
rance, or in any other country of Europe, and why
should it be so any longer in England ? Another im-
provement he intended to introduce was for the pur-
poseof more effectually compelling the debtor to sur-
render his property. Under the present system the
debtor put his creditors at defiance. By the Lords Act
it was provided that any man taken in execution for a
!um under 300/. might be compelled to surrender all
his property ; but if the sum was above that amount,
he might put his creditors at defiance, and, by living
Within the rules, enjoy all the luxuries of life as in a
Palace, and squander all that property by which his
Just debts should have been paid. He proposed by
this bill, whatever the amount of the debt was, that
the debtor should be subjected to an examination be-
fore a competent tribunal, and if he should not fairly
disclose and surrender his property, he should be put
into close confinement and treated as a criminal. Com-
mon debtors would thus be treated, in fact, as bank-
rupts. Another alteration which he proposed, and
Which he was sure would be considered as satisfactory
by the house, was, that all manner of property should be
subject to execution. Under the present system you
could undoubtedly, by imprisonment, get a large por-
tion of the debtor's property ; but copyholds, secu-
rities, and money in the public funds could not by that
means be at all affected. This bill, however, would
Provide that the debtor's property of all sorts, all
runner of securities, copyholds, and money in the
public funds, all property real and personal, should
be surrendered and assigned for the satisfaction of
creditors. Another improvement of considerable im-
Portance would be to allow the cessio bonorum with-
out imprisonment. If a debtor were honestly dis-
Posed to surrender his property, why should he not be
allowed to do so voluntarily, without being arrested
by a sheriff's officer and thrown into prison ? The
creditors would have the opportunity of judging whe-
ther the debtor was honest or not. At present all
future effects were liable, and the spur of industry was
entirely taken away ; it was therefore proposed that
a certain proportion of the creditors in number and
~slue
should give a certificate, and the debtor would
then become a new man, in the same manner as if,
under the present system, he had been a bank-
rtup
rt. If, however, on the other hand, he con-
ed debts on false pretences, or made an assign-
slient of debts and property with the view of
defrauding his creditors,—if in short, he did not make
4,just and fair disclosure of the state of his affairs, he
Mould be guilty of a misdemeanor, and subject to
Punishment accordingly. Such, very briefly, were a
fen of the prominent and principal provisions in the
bill. He did not mean to deny that some expense
Would necessarily be incurred by its machinery.
There must be commissioners, with adequate compen-
sation, besides other persons to take charge of the
Property assigned, and for which they should be re-
!Tensible ; but he was sure the importance of the bill
in principle, and the saving which it would ultimately
effect, would recommend it strongly to the favourable
consideration of the house. The insolvent debtors'
system at present cost upwards of 300,000/. annually,
hich ought to be distributed among just creditors ; but
p present measure would not, he was sure, cost any-
thing like that sum. Not apprehending any opposi-
tion to the introduction of the bill, he would not
troubles the house further at present. He knew that
,
Tlue for whose opinions he had great respect enter
Gained serious doubts as to the propriety of entirely
abolishing imprisonment for debt ; and he was ready
.._`° admit that the subject required serious deliberation
n! discussion ; but after the maturest investigation
Which he could give to it, he was distinctly of opinion
that the time was come when imprisonment for debt
:ills all cases where there was no fraud, no intention to
'clay the creditors, and a fair disposition shown on the
Pistil of the debtor to disclose and assign his property,
should be entirely abolished. ( Hear' har.) The hon.
!slid
the
learned gentleman then oved for leave to bring
Inthe bil according to the terms of his notice.
The question having been put,
to The TTORNEY-GENERAL stated, in answer
k an in quiry put by an hon. member, that a separate
..easure should be introduced in order to give Ireland
t_ine_full benefit of the principle of the bill. The hon.
n
.ivd learned gentleman also stated, in reply to Sir R.
lls; that as at no very remote period, if the bill
sed, the present Insolvent Debtors' Court would
"some ultimately of no benefit, the judges of that
court, to whom the public were so much indebted
blight be advantageously employed for the purpose of
earryint the new measure into effect.
Mr. BROTHERTON asked whether it was the
intention of the hon. and learned gentleman to intro-
duce a clause to enable a debtor to compound with his
creditors without the intervention of the Court of Corn-
kissioners. Sometimes 9-lOths of the creditors were
Willing to accept a composition,which'arrangement was
4 tilted by some hard-hearted creditor insisting on
tieing paid in full.
rob
ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he should
orlvl:tre that a clause was provided with the view of
to airrinE,as much as possible that difficulty. In reply
"arburton, the hon. and learned gentleman
eoso stated that from the commissioners acting in the
untrY with respect to the cessio bonorun!, and the
d•tkistribution of debtors' effects, an appeal might lie to
me Court of Review.
Mr.
While Alderman THOMPSON complained, that
executions would issue on bills of exchange and
uonds, no increased facility was proposed to be given
for the recovery of book debts.
, T ATTORNEY'-GENERAL ATTORNE
--GENERAL promised to give
teat subject his best attention.
An Hori. MEMBER wished to know whether the hon.
iseid learned gentleman entertained the idea of carr
11g his measure through in the
course of the present
'assion ?
dollle ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he should
I that lay in his power to accomplish that object.
ordThe bill was then brought in, read a first time, and
.r
Ad
to be printed, and to be read a second time on
ey se'nnight.
.ourned at a quarter past eleven o'clock.

DitEBB OP TIIE OPERAD From
what I have
is sa s Grant TtNrbCuErßn,s`T am" con--
Acient there is not aIL in America, having a drop ot
American blood in her Yveins, but rather than expose
to
her person, as is done by the women in Europe,
the brutal gaze of those noble blackguards, she would !like a prayer-book in one hand, and a wooden cross ,r 1 the other, and walk into the flames of martyrdom."
cit A correspondent states, that there is in the
nct far from Aldgate, den of thieves, w
known to the police, under the cant name of " The
ell
loud-I o'e," where characters
of the most infamous
titscription dale meet with impunity to plan their
°Perations and divide the spoil.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The Cambridge election has terminated, as
we had expressed our hope it would do, in the
return of Mr. Spring Rice, its former member.
The question, however, will be asked, how
comes it that Mr. Spring Rice, who on the last
election carried his return with so high a hand,
and was supported by so large a majority, has
on this occasion been run so hard by the anti-
ministerial candidate, and has lost ground
among the independent voters ? The cause,
we take it, must be looked for, not in Mr. Rice
himself, but in the rude shocks which public
opinion has inflicted on the Government of
which he forms part—in the seeming incompe-
tency of the Administration to carry some of
its own avowed plans and measures through
Parliament, and its supposed indisposition to
hasten the accomplishment of others, which
were loudly called for by the country. These
circumstances, followed up by the bungling
manner in which the Cabinet, after being lately
broken to pieces, was in the first instance at-
tempted to be patched up, made, as is notorious,
a deep and general impression against the
whole Government ; and if Ministers do not
see in it a warning for the future, their blind-
ness is incurable.—'limes.

The result of the Cambridge election—in the
return of Mr. Spring Rice—is an event of no
conunon importance. It exhibits the unques-
tionable predominance of liberal opinions in a
county town and University borough, and un-
der peculiarly adverse circumstances. The To-
ries will cackle about the diminished number of
Mr. Rice's majority, as compared with the poll
of the last contest. But the election of 1832
was a trial of split votes, always in favour .of a
third candidate of politics distinct from the
others. The present conflict, however, was
one simply of appeal to the principles of the
electors. Under all the circumstances of the
election—the doubtful_re-formation of the Mi-
nistry—the suspicion and discontent of the
Dissenters—the canting cu of " Church in
danger"—and the natural cessation of the en-
thusiasm created by the Reform Bills, the ma-
jority of twenty-nine for the popular candidate
is a glorious proof of the power and sincerity of
the Reformers. We have always mistrusted the
smaller constituencies. The " virgin electors,"
flushed with their newly acquired enfranchise-
ment, in 1832 voted according to their consciences
and political principles; they knew not from
experience the consequences with which their
conduct would be attended. The Tory property
classes, we are well informed, have punished
the electors for their independence ; and we
know that many of the smaller boroughs have
suffered most severely for their integrity. The
country gentry, and the opulent conservative
classes, resorted to exclusive dealing ; and many
a proud spirit has yielded to the pressure.
Never, on any occasion, has coercion been so
infamously resorted to as at Cambridge during
the last week. The most desperate and scan-
dalous influence has been exercised over the
independent electors. In fact the ballot alone
can redeem us from the slavery and persecution
of the clerical and lay aristocracy ; and what-
ever may be the Whig prejudices against the
secret mode of voting, we are assured that the
reflecting part of the nation is more and more
convinced of the efficacy, and, indeed, indispen-
sible necessity, of the ballot. Is it not an " un-
English" vice for the head of a British College
to dismiss his gardener, because he will not vio-
late his conscience by voting at the dictation of
his master? Is it not an infamous offence against
the rights of the people to prevent electors from
exercising their franchise in the fear of perse-
cution and loss of business ? We do not doubt
that under the ballot Mr. Rice would have
polled two-thirds of the constituency, and that
in secret voting he would have recorded in his
favour the votes of almost all the electors who
sneaked from the exercise of their elective fran-
chise. Indeed, we know no country in which
the ballot is so essential to its representative
system. The class voting, the illegitimate
influence of property, the oppression of the
aristocracy, the corrupt and habitual expendi-
ture of money, the absurdly-varying number of
the constituencies, unite to make open voting
a curse, and the source of every evil in elec-
tions ; but we are on the road to political im-
provement. The Cambridge election is a most
gratifying event, and the reformers throughout
the country are greatly indebted to the public-
spirited electors of that borough. It is not a
little singular, mid it allows us to indulge in
the most sanguine hopes for the future, that
the electors of Oxford and Cambridge have re-
turned liberal representatives, while their uni-
versities are the hotbeds of intolerance and To-
ryism. The learned doctors of Oxford, newly
made, will do well to chew the cud of reflection
on this. What has occurred at Cambridge
ought to be a lesson to them ; and we are much
mistaken if they do not soon find cause to regret
the part they have taken.—Morning Chronicle.
After a struggle of great severity, Mr. Spring,
Rice has succeeded in his re-election for Cam-
bridge, by the small majority of 29. The
whole number that polled was 1,203, of which
Mr. Rice had 616, and Sir E. Sugden, 587.
This is certainly a proof of anything but the
popularity of the Whig administration. At the
former election Sir Edward was beaten by a
majority of 169, but the Whigs have gone far
down the hill of public favour since that time.
The Tories have all the benefit of their decline,
and are more indebted to the errors which the
Whigs have committed, and to their dereliction
of principle, for recovering something like a
strong position in the country, than to their
own exhibition of public virtue or wisdom. If
the Tories had not stood by the 'Whigs in
whatever odious and unconstitutional mea-
sures they have carried, or attempted, they
would now occupy a much stronger posi-
tion than they do, and even in the Whig_
gish town of Cambridge, Sir Edward Sugden
must have beaten his ministerial opponent hol-
low. The monstrous Poor Law Bill—the most
audacious infringement of constitutional prin-
ciples that has been attempted in modern tunes,
gave the Tories a fine opportunity
against
ortignsnaitiyotf
theregaining
some popularity, by voting
esta-
blishment of this novel species of `Whig and
Malthusian tyranny ; but their admiration of
inordinate power overcame even their hatred of
the then Whig rivals, and made them forgetful
of their own interests. It is true Sir Edward
Sugden deprecated the unconstitutional prin-
ciples of Lord Althorp's Bill at Cambridge ;
but his party support it in general, and there-
fore it was probably thought that his denuncia-
tion of this monstrous bill was only to serve the
purpose of the election. It is said by Mr.
Rice's friends that much undue influence has
been used to gain friends, and that bribery was car-
ried to a great extent. As to undue influence, it
will, probably, turn out that it was not confined to

the one side, nor perhaps the bribery either. But
how does it happen that the Whigs at every
election endeavour to persuade the public that
the Reform Bill is wholly inefficient to prevent
bribery and corruption ? How different were
the anticipations of Earl Grey and Lord J.
Russell of the practical effects to be expected
from their bill, while it was yet under discus-
sion, we need not say : they are upon record.
They promised something like a millemum of
purity among the electors after the bill should
have come into operation ; and now, if we may
believe the Whig scribes themselves, bribery
and corruption flourish in more rank luxuriance
than ever. If the University has made the
efforts which it is represented to have made to
influence the election of the town, it proves
that the ancient seat of learning at Cambridge
looks with as little favour on the Whig Mi-
nistry as that of Oxford ; and on matters of
government, though we do not blindly
.follow
any authority, we still think the opinion of
the educated classes worth something.—Morn-
int,. Herald.