The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-16 00:00:00

thedutles. It was questionable to him that the public would gain
by a nominal saving of 5401. per annum, and the consequent em
ployment of a person totally unacquainted with the details of
the office and with the necessary legal knowledge, :nd ►here.
fore unfit to offer any advice to his superiors. He fe red there
must have been some undefined cause for anxiety on the part
of his Majesty's Ministers to get rid of old officers, and ap-
point new ones. The papers which had been produced in con-
sequence of the motion he had made, did not contain the
replies to some of the queries which had been put by the
Treasury, and therefore he (Lord George Somerset) was left in
the dark as to the motives by which the Governmenthad been
actuated, and as to whether the thing had been done in c.m.
currence with the feelings of Mr. Mitford. It was carious,
that the instant Mr. Mitford was put on the superannua,ion
list, he received an application from another department,
and, for aug- t he knew, was now receiving another salary for
less onerous duties.
Lord ALTHORP commenced his reply so inaudibly as to
preclude even an outline of his observations. The Noble Lord
went on to say that the savings effected were not confined to the
consolidation of the chief boards, but were much larger in propor.
tion, by the consolidation of the collection of taxes under the same
board. He begged to say, that the replies to which the Noble Lord
had referred, as being withheld, were entirely confidenti I com.
munications. He had recommended Lord Grey to select Mr.
Wood, not because he was a supporter of Ministers, for no
man could say that gentleman's conduct had been at all sub-
servient to their purpos s—(Hear)—but he had recommended
his selection because of his consistency of conduct, and general
ability, and because of his (Lord A.'s) great confidence in his
honesty and integrity, and because, although not following his
Majesty's Government, they felt that he possessed their most
entire confidence.—(Hear.) In consolidating the Boards.
the Government had not only to calculate the amount
of saving which might be made directly in salaries,
but also whether the persons to be appointed were most likely
to effect the general savings in the most efficient manner. It
had been proposed to Mr. Mitford that he should remain in
the situation with the same salary as he had received before;
but it was still necessary that the person at the head of the
board should be in habits of confidential communication with
the Government. He concurred in the encomiums passed
by the Noble Lord on Mr. Mitford—(Hear, hear)—but he
should do very wrong if he were not also to award the same
meed of praise to Mr. Thornton, who had also retired.—( Hear,
hear.) No man was more ready than that gentleman had been
found to be in concuring in the wishes of the Government.
It was not for the purpose of acquiring any patronage Mr.
Wood had been appointed, the Government merely wished to
have at the head of the consolidated department a gentleman
with whom they could co-operate, and who was well known
for his independence and ability.—(Hear, hear.) The saving
by the change would be greater in the country than within the
immediate department in town.
Lord G. SOMERSET hoped that neither the Government
nor the House would suppose he had not a very great respect
for Mr. Wood, and he (Lord Somerset) could bear testimony
to his ability, but what he would ask of the Noble Lord was,
whether he meant to state that Mr. Mitford, during the time of
his official life, had acted otherwise than with strict confidence
and strict discretion towards his Majesty's Ministers, or did his
conduct justify any suspicion from the Government.
Lord ALTHORP had not the slightest complaint to make
against Mr. Mitford ; he had always acted in the most
honourable manner towards the Government, but his Majesty's
Government could communicate more unreservedly with such
a man as Mr. Wood, especially when his Majesty's Ministers
had in contemplation large reductions in the expenditure of the
country.—(Hear.)
Sir E. KNATCHBULL contended that his Majesty's Go-
vernment had not shown sufficient grounds for removing Mr.
Mitford from his situation.

Mr. HUME was not at all surprised at the soreness which
was now evinced by the gentlemen who had formerly been in
office, at having their friends removed from office.—(Laughter
and hear, hear.)
Lord E. SOMERSET begged to inform the Hon. Member
for Middlesex and the House, that he had never had any re-
presentation whatever from Mr. Mitford.
Mr. HUME did not mean to say anything of the kind ; he
only meant to say it was very natural that they should feel a
little vexed at seeing those with whom they had formerly acted
removed from their situation.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
He knew that complaints of that kind had been made,
but he would not say such complaints had been made
to the Noble Lord who had just interrupted him. But the
question was, whether the consolidation was fit to be made—
whether the Government were justified in making a reduction in
the expenditure, in one branch of it, from 11,5001. to 5,6001.?

If the Noble Lord was satisfied the duties could be performed
at less expense, he was perfectly warranted in doing it, but
he (Mr. Hume) thought, the Noble Lord might have gone
csmsiderably lower. He (Mr. H.) had proposed a plan by which
two Commissioners were to have done the whole duty,and he was
satisfied if it had been left to him to make the arrangements,
he would have procured some of the ablest men in England to
do the duty, and at a ranch less expense.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) In 182, he had brought in a pan whereby a great
saving in the expense for the collection of stamps might be
made. If there was any one thing that he complained of in
his Majesty's Ministers, it was that they were not strong enough,
they were, to make use of a word in a petition that had been
presented yestei day, imbecile. He knew they had much to put
up with from many quarters, and he blamed them for not
exercising the power that was vested in them towards certain
Lieutenants of Counties Nho had mane use or the power they
had as representatives of the Crown to political purposes.
Be ore he sat down, he wished just to mention that the
Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of t e Admiralty, had
pledged himself to bring in a Bill to abolish superannuations
this Session. They had now arrived at the end of the Session,
and there was no such Bill produced, nor was there any Bill
respecting the pensions Now, he wished to ask the Right
Hon. Baronet whether any persons entering office now were to
be placed in thesituation subject to any lien in the Bill that
was about to be introouced, or whether any man now entering
office did so without a claim to superannuation under the Bill?
Sir J, GRAHAM said the Government had certainly con.
templated bringing in such a Bill as that stated by the Hon.
Member for Mi.ld.esex, but they thought, considering the pres-
sure of business, that so impoi cant a subject could not receive
that attention at so late a period of the session which it de-
s.trved, The Bill was now prepared, and certainly, on be.
half of himself and his colleagues, he would undertake, at
the commencement of the ensuing session of P..trliament
it should be brought in. In the meantime, in answer to
the other questions put by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he
begged to say, that it was distinctly understood by all persons
who now accepted office, that they acceeted those offices sub.
ject to the decision of Parliainent.—(Hear, hear.) The very
appointment that they had now been discussing, was
made on the same understanding. He wished also to
point out to the Honourable Gentleman, that with respect to
a I civil servants appointed subsequent to the bill introdoced
by Mr. Goulbourn, a reduction was made from their salaries
to the amount of file per cent for the purpose of raising a fund,
out of with the superannuation was to be paid. The whole
subject was one of the greatest importance, and he admitted
the tecessity of some legidalion upon it' He would again
pledge himself that at the commencement of the next Session
a Bill would be introduced, not only for the purpose of regu.
lacing the superannuations of inferior civil servants, but also
bringing under the notice of that House that Act which gave
pensions to officers.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY approved of the conduct that
had been pursued by Government, in removing Mr. Mittord.
In the former boards there were persons who were now living
on large superannuat. d allowanc.s, and who were emi.
nently qualified for any other situations.—(Hear, hear.)
He knew a gentleman who had an allowance of 4001. per
annum, and who applied to be appointed a charity Commissioner
the salary of which was SOO/ , and by which the public would
have saved the 4001. a year, but he was refnsed.—(Hear,
hear.) He knew that many persons similarly circumstanced
would gladly be employed in other offices of higher salaries
and surrendering their pensions, and he hoped the Noble Lord
(Althoip) would cause the whole of the pensioners to be so
classed, that those who were capable might be required to fill
up vacancies as they occurred. by which mode there would be
a great saving to the public.
Sir H. VERNEY said, that Mr. Thornton was a very proper
man to have becn appointed on the consolidation of the two
Boards.

Sir IL INGLIS said he had wished for an opportunity to put
a question to the Noble Lord opposite, relative to the ni.ssrow
Lottery—(Loud cries of " Oh:")—but he would put it at some
other period, as it did not now meet the convenience of the
House.

Mr. WARBURTON said that when an extensive reform
was contemplated by the consolidation of departments, it was
highly essential that Government should have persons in whom
they could place confidence, and who would cordially and ac-
tively concur in carrying the details of the change into effect
Col. EVANS was glad to hear that Government had engaged
to turn their attention to the subject of superannuation,
and he hoped that the inquiry would not be confied
to the pensions for services in an particular depart-
ment inthe State.—(Hear.) As to the military and other
officers who received diplomatic or other pensions, and were
employed in some public office, their pensions ought at least
to be suspended while they were in the receipt of large salaries.
_(Hear, hear.) Such, for instance, as the Governor-General
of India, and the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, both of whom
had large pensions and allowances, while they were holding

high and lucrative situations.
Mr. A GLIONBY said he was confident that Mr. John Wood
possessed qualifications peculiar y fitting for his situation.—
fhere ,hould be a confidence and a kindly feeling shown to-
wards Government, which would not be the case if the in-
ferior officers were persons who, by their vexatious conduct,
excited dissatisfaction in the public mind.
Mr. BROTHERTON approved of the conduct of his
Majesty's Ministers in the appointment of Mr. Wood. He
,aid it was desirable to have the cordial co-operation of those
who had to execute the plans of Government When we
engage a servant we wish to have not only his hands but his
read and his heart. From the knowledge he had of Mr
Wood as a man of business, he was of opinion that the appoint-
,nent would be beneficial to the pub.ic.
Mr. COSSET' did not find fault with the changes Minis-
ters had made; he regretted that there had not been a complete
veeping out. When he met Mr. Wood on the hustings at
ereston, he told him to his face that it was not a seat in Par-
ament that he (Mr. Wood) wanted, except so far as it would
e a
Mr. S. RICE could not allow that observation to remain un-
,ontradicted.—(Cheers.) Ott the part of Mr. Wood, lie would
eesp
rop
hs stepping-stone
p to a place of profit. He now found his
ing_stone
had been fulfilled.
to him the justice to say, he believed office was the last thing