The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-01 00:00:00

-49.0
254

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548

I -.582

But your Committee having learnt that a large por-
tion of the burgesses of Stafford, voting under the old
franchise, occupied tenements of the value of 101. and up-
wards, they thought it desirable to ascertain whether
bribery had prevailed among this class of voters, as well
as among the poorer burgesses. They proceeded, there-
fore, to call before them Mr. John Beech, the overseer of
the poor for the parishes of St. Mary and St. Chad, in the
town of Stafford, and directed him to compare the re-
gister of burgesses with his rate book, and to give in a list
of those burgesses who, in his opinion, occupied premises
to the value of 101. and upwards, and who would be en-
titled to vote under the new franchise.

The List which has been made, and which is also
printed in the Appendix, No. 4, contains 166 names, and
from that number your Committee find that more than
two thirds of those who voted were paid ; the num-
bers being 109 paid, 42 not paid, making 151 who
polled ; the remaining 15 do not appear to have voted.
The following table affords an accurate analysis of each
class of voters :

Num. Did Total
Paid. PNaoidt. Niunmtibeer
voted. Register.
who
- - -
HOUSEHOLDERS. Vnootet.
Stafford .............................. 70 76 146 17 163
Castle Church or Forebridge 15 6 21 9 30
Total of New Constituency... S 5 182 167 26 193
-..-
BURUESSES.
Occupying to the amount of
101. and more .................. 109 4" 151 15 166
Under 101. ....................... 658 73 731 So 817
- -
Total Old Constituency.......' 767 115 882 101 983
Total of both Classes 852 197 -1049 1-127 1176

The Chairman read the 25th clause.
In answer to a question from Mr. HERRIES, which
was wholly inau inie in the gallery,
Lord ALTHORP was understood to say, that the pay.
went of the twenty millions was contingent on the ;idol).
tion of certain regulations by the Colonial Legislatures.
They could not state when that contingency might occur,
and therefore he did not see how they could ii-et the
amount by any other power than that of Lords Commis-
sioners of the Treasury raising it by way or loan, not va-
rying more than five shillings in the per tentage. It bad
been yesterday recommended by an Hon. Member to
raise the sum by an advance of Exchequer Bills ; but he
was sure the House would never sanction such a pro-
ceeding, for so large an amount.
Mr. BERRIES suggested, that all difficulties would
be got over by substituting for this and certain subse-
quent clauses—such a clause as would require the whole
provision to be brought from time to time into Par-
liament.

L Ord ALTHORP would avow, that if any other plan
could be hit upon, the present should be alandoned. The
suggestion should be taken into consideration before the
bringing up of the report.
Mr. AGLIONBY was convinced that the planters
must derive considerable advantage from free labour, and
therefore there was the less reason to give them so large
a sum as that now proposed. There were two classes of
persons in the West Indies who were entitled to compen-
sation ; but from their relative situation entitled to it in a
different degree. The first were those who had slaves
without land, and who obtaintd a profit on the labour of
the slaves they let out to hire to the other class—namely,
those persons who had lands, and cultivated them by the
labour of these slaves. He thought that before such a
sum as twenty millions were granted, there should be
some inquiry, to ascertain in what degree these different
Classes were injured.
Sir R. PEEL said that the vote he had given on this
subject rested on this point. Tue House of Commons
had passed certain resolutions, the first of which declared
the necessity of the immediate abolition of slavery; an-
other, that all children, after six years of age, should be
free ; and the third, that, towards compensation to the
planters for the losses which these two resolutions would
occasion, his Majesty should be empowered to grant them
a sum of twenty millions. That resolution had been com-
municated to the House of Lords; they had agreed to it.
After all this had been done, if they could recede from
the let and 2d resolutions, and replace the proprietors
in the same situation in which they had been before, then
the third resolution might be withdrawn ; but if they
had not the means to do the first of these things, they
ought not to attempt the last. All the arguments of the
lion. and Learned Gentleman might have been properly
addressed to the House of Commons before these resolu-
tions bad been passed, but to say now that they had dis-
covered a new argument why there should be no com-
pensation, would be little satisfactory to the mind of try
also who was inclined to act with prudence and justice,

Lord NORREYS would not consent to vote away the
20 millions ; but he had no hesitation in saying, that if
that clause were thrown out, as one of its opponents, he
should consider it but just and fair to the proprietors to
vote against the third reading of the Bill.
Sir E. WILMOT thought the sum originally proposed
as a loan amply sufficient ras a gift. When people talked of
the prevailing diatte,.s, and of the burdens of taxation,
as a ground for giving the smaller sum, the answer had
been, that the honour of the country required that the
larger amount should be inserted in the Bill. Now, he
knew that thousands of his constituents were, if not ac-
twt.liy starving, in a state of great destitution, and when he
returned to them, he should have to tell them, that they
must continue to starve and be destitute for the honour
of their country. On a former day, he had u•ed a strong
expression regarding an individual ; he was happy to take
this opportunity of saying publicly, as, indeed, he had said
privately, that on inquiry he found it was not deserved,
and that he was, therefore, very sorry for it.—(Cheers.)
The Committee divided on the amendment—
For it 27
Against it l5O
Majority 1:25
During the exclusion of strangers, another division
took place, on the original clause—

For the clause — 132
Against it 5l
Majority -Si

On our return to the gallery, the Committee was pro-
ceeding, as we understood, with clause 40.
Mr. F. BUXTON proposed an amendment to it to be
added at the conclusion, and providing that ten millions
out of the twenty millions to be granted should be re-
tained, by way of security, until the contract shoed(' have
been fulfilled, and the parties claiming entitled to it. The
Hon. Member argued that this was the course invariably
pursued in all purchases, and he saw every reason for not
varying from it on the present occasion. His suggestion
was that the remainder of the purchase money should
be vested in trustees until all necessary measures for
the abolition of slavery had been adopted by the co-
lonists. That some plan of the kind should be resorted
to did not seem to require much argument, and Parlia-
ment had had experience on the point; a large suns
of money had been paid without reserve to Spain and
Portugal for the abolition of the slave trade, and what
had been the result ?—those countries had kept the
money a:id be trade too.—(Cheers.) No reliance was
to be placed on the West Indian Legislatures. Of all
the islands, be (Mr. F. Buxton) had a right to complain,
but against Jamaica be had to make a graver charge than
against the rest, since it had been guilty of the most cruel
and wanton persecution of the Missionaries, whose only
object was to discharge an imperative and a sacred
duty. Putting other arguments out of the question, in
his view one of the wrongest grounds for withholding
half of the purchase money until the completion of the
contract was derived from the conduct of the people
of England. An instance of such devoted and disinte-
rested generosity was never before known.—(Cheers.)
While they were suffering severe distress, burdened with
heavy taxes, and enduring great privations, they were
still ready to give the enormous sum of twenty mil ions
for the accomplishment of an act of humanity.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) One of the last exclamations of that great
and excellent man (Mr. Wilberforce) on his death bed,
and, clasping his hands, was—" That I should have lived
to see the day when the people of England voted twenty
millions of their money for the abolition of slavery !"

Mr. STANLEY said that the effect of the motion
would be to put the country to the proposed expense,
without any benefit to the proprietors. Toe question was,
considering the state of the colonies and the moral condi-
tion of the negroes, whether it would be desirable to hold
out inducements to the Colonial Legislatures to frward
the business of einaneip ition before its app iiiitef time.
He objected to the motion of his Hon. Friend, on the
ground that it would lead to litigation, to delay, and to
the expense of keeping up the commis•ion for six years
longer than would o herwise be necessary.
Dr. LUSHINGTON complained, that though bo,'n
by that resolution which declared a compensation of
20,000,0001., they should have been told by his Right
Hon. Friend that they were bound by nothing lie
being now, after so shot t a time, the advocate of binding
the House strictly to the proposed arrangetuerrs respecting
apprenticeships. It was of the utmost importance that.
they should make themselves assured that they should-
obtain emancipation. He was willing to pay the money,
but he should take especial care to have goad security that
the conditions of the compact should be observed.
Mr. P. M. STEWART said that the proposal of Go-
vet nment needed little argument to support it, ;is opposed
to the amendment of the Hon. Member for Weymouth,
As far as he knew, the colonists co-operated with the
present measure; and as it had eff.eted the cooperation
of the great majority of the colonies, be woull entreat
the House not to shake the bargain agreed to by that
inaj irity. He would ask the Hon. Member not to press
his mischievous amendment, as be could tell him twat be
would put the whole question in lo.zard, if by any chancy,
he should succeed in the vote of that nigh,-. He could
not help alluding to the change that took pace in some
gentlemen's minds on this question, and particularly to
that of a Noble Viscount's opposite. He remembered
that the Noble Viscount, in answer to a speech of
the Honourable Member for Weymouth in 1831, took
Mr. Canning's view of the question, saying, that it
would not be advantageous that slavery should be
situ-
lished at once, and that the course pointed out by the
Hon. 11.1:mber fin- Weymouth was one attended with
great danger ; that he concurred with Mr. Canning, that
emancipation should be gradual, and that if not, the flame
that would be raised must be extinguishad by blood ; that
not only emancipation should be gradual, but that it should
be brought about by diminishing stiff:ring and labour, and
that it would be better to take the weight off the slave
and assimilate him to the state of the freeman. Tli,!se
were then the Noble Viscount's opinions. The present Bill
was somewhat similar, but it went beyond what the Noble
Viscount then advocated. He really kuew not what had
come over the Noble Viscount's mind, that his views
should be so altered, but great alterations of opinion were
effected by time and place.—(Laughter.)
Lord HOWICK had so often seen mean motives vittri-
huted to persons incapable of them, that when similar
imputations were cast on him, he experienced no other
fading than that of ineffable contempt, and pity and
compassion fir him who had no better argument, and
who was obliged to have recourse to such allegations.
Mr. P. M. STEWART bad imputed no motives to the
Noble Viscount; but had merely quoted part of his speech.
Lord HOWICK thought he could repeat the exact
words made use of by the Hon. Member—namely, that
there were two things, time and place, whic:i altered
men's opinions, and as he knew that (referring to him
Lord Howirk) it could not be time, the conclu.ion must be
that it was the other—place. He asked the Hon. Member
if these were not his words, but the imputation implied in
them was so contemptible, that the Hon. Member date
not adhere to them. He treated the imputation with pro-
found scorn. He allowed, however, that a peat change
had taken place in his opinions on the subject of slaver>.
It would not be necessary for him to state fully the cause
of that change, as he had done so already on a previous oc-
casion, when be told the House how his views had
changed, and for what reasons he had adopted those of Mr.
Canning. In 1823 there was no one that could deny that
sl very should be at first mitigated, in order to be entirely
abolished. It was the failure of such a plan as was
then advised that made him adopt other opinions. While
in office he had argued those views, in order to be convinced
whether such a course could be pursued. Before he knew
what the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Secretary for
the Colonies) intended to do, he resigned. If he had
chosen, he could have made it more difficult to have the
present scheme carried. lie resigned on the distinct ground
that Government did not intend to go so far. He thought
this slight justification of himself was called upon, after the
remarks of the Hon. Member. He said before, that per-
sonal imputations were always had recourse to by those
whose arguments were weak, and never was there a more
decided proof given that such was the case, than the Hon.
Member just gave. It was said that they were pledged to
this grant of twenty millions. Yes, thus far, as he un-
derstood it, given as an equivalent for the freedom of the
slaves. But when apprenticeship was talked of, he doubted
much about the wish for complete freedom; and when
such was his doubt, he would not vote for the grant of
twenty millions until he felt sure what was the considera-
tion they were to receive for that grant. He would sup-
port the amendment of the Hon. Member for Weymouth.
Mr. MAXWELL STEWART explained.

Lord AL THORP said that the Hon. and Learned
Member for the Tower Hamlets had argued on the pre,
sumption that the opinion of the House was in favour of
immediate emancipation, without any apprenticeship.
Now that was not the case. The opinion of the House
was shown to be, that the intervening apprenticeship
should take place. It was absurd to suppose that slavery
could be postponed beyond the time prescribed. The Im-
perial Legislature having declared that slavery should cease
at a certain time, it was utterly impossible that the Colo-
nial Legislatures should keep the slaves longer in slavery.
There was, therefore, no danger to be apprehended on
that account. He (Lord Althorp) thought, that in a case
of such great importance as the pre,ent, such financial
,rguments as had been brought forward by the Noble
Lord ought to have no force. He thought that nothing
would be so unwise and impolitic as to make an alteration
which would give the greatest dissatisfaction.—(Hear.)
It was true that the Noble Lord (Howick) had resigned
his office before this measure was brought forward, and as
far as his opposition to this measure went, it was certainly
much more persevering than he (Lord Althorp) could
wish.—(Hear.) He hoped that the House would not
assent to the amendment proposed by the Hon. Member
for Weymouth.
Mr. O'CONNELL would have no confidence in the
West Indian body, if the amendment of the Hon. Member
were lost. He did not wish to defeat the Bill. His op-
position extended only to parts of it. At first i; had
been proposed that fifteen millions should be given to the
West Indians as a loan, and that the sum should be paid
by the negroes : that loan had now changed into a gift of
twenty millions, which was to be paid by this country.
They had cut off two hours had a half a day of the negro :1
labour, and for that tbey were about to give twenty mil-
lions. The enormity of such a proceeding was stunning.
But as the West Indians were to get these twenty mil-
lions, they bad reason, at all events, to expeucetbsomhoewsYevmp.
y:
toms of humanity on their part.
protestingere 11'11o:
against
eedelega's
the
o'
the.
l it appeared.reren tw e t
Indiao n theeol
bought
no co-operation On the partnc
ioe
contrary, t 1%. a 4
v
measure. They had
if the West Indians; and it they found thLui fighting for the
last half pound of negro flesh in that I,se—(Oh, oh)._
Oat were they to expect of the Cohmi L gistatorta in the
we.c Indies ?
'