The Sun.
London, England, 1834-04-19 00:00:00

PETITION.

Mr. GOULBURN gave ;notice that, at the morning
siting on Monday next, he would present a petition from
members of the Senate of the University of Cambridge,
deprecating any alteration in the constitution and regula-
tions of the university.
Upon the motion of Mr. STANLEY, that the house
gointo :a Committee of Supply, an hon. member re-
minded the noble lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that he had stated on a former day, that until the measure
for the repeal of the house-tax was brought forward, he
could not introduce any measure for the relief of the agri-
cultural interest. He wished to know, as the bill
for the repeal of the house tax was now standing for a se-
cond reading, whether his Majesty's government had in
contemplation any measure to assist the landed interest?
Lord ALTHORP, as well as we could understand
him, for he spoke in a very low tone of voice, said
that the house must be aware that it was unusual
to make a statement such as that required previous to
bringing forward a motion; the proceeding would at least
be irregular. The noble lord, in conclusion, said, as we
understood him, that next session he would bring forward
some proposition for the relief of the landed interest.
Colonel PERCE VAL said he had a question to put to
the right hon. gentleman opposite, arising from a trial
that took place at the last assizes for Cork, at which a man
of the name of Wright was prosecuted for murder.
In consequence of an occurrence which took place
there, viz., the testimony of a priest of the name
of Burke, the prisoner was acquitted. This had excited a
strong feeling in that country, and he wished to know
whether it was the intention of his Majesty's government
to institute a criminal prosecution against the reverend
gentleman.
Lord ALTHORP replied, that as ulterior measures were
contemplated, it would be unnecessary to give an answer
to that at present.
Sir S. WHALLEY wished to ask the noble lord when
he intended to move the second reading of the bill for the
repeal of the house tax, or whether it was the intention
of government to repeal it at all ?
Lord ALTHORP said the hon. member could have no
doubt upon the question, and he did not believe any one
else had. (Hear.) It was certainly his full intention to
move the second reading of that bill, but as it would not
take effect until October, there could be no necessity for
its immediate introduction. The honourable mem-
ber, he understood, wished to get that bill out of
the way in order to move for the repeal of the window tax,
which he (Lord A. ), whether his bill were in the way or
not, would oppose ; and which, as long as he was Chan-
cellor of the Exehequer, he would oppose. (Hear. )
Mr. HUME requested to know what were the inten-
tions of government in reference to the Local Courts Bill.
Lord ALTHORP replied, that as there were measures
before the house connected with it, it would not be de-
sirable to bring the bill forwards yet.
Lord G. SOMERSET asked the hon. member for
Cricklade why the return of the expenses of the Metropoli-
tan Commissioners with regard to lunatic asylums, which
ought to be made before the 25th of March, had not yet
been made. A clause was introduced last session by the
Attorney-General, and he wished to know what the addi-
tional expense was which that clause had entailed upon the
country.
Mr. GORDON did not know why the noble lord should
refer to him. He should apply to the noble lord who was
at the head of that commission, who, however, was at pre-
sent absent from England. (A laugh. )
Lord G. SOMERSET thought the secretary and trea-
surer the proper person to apply to for information.
Mr. GORDON said it was not his duty to afford it.
Sir R. PEEL wished to know since by the 6th of
George IV. it was enacted that the salary of the Lord
Chief Justice should be reduced from 10,0001. to 8,0001.
would it not be proper to have a specific act to regulate
the salary of Judges:
Lord ALTHORP said the act provided that the salary
should not exceed 10,0001. which was specific enough—
there was no necessity for a new act.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the salary of
Baron Williams had been reduced according to the regula-
tions provided ?
Mr. RICE said as in the cases of the appointment of
Mr. Justice Alderson and Justice Park, the salaries had
been reduced five hundred pounds, the same regu-
lation was adopted in the case of Baron Williams.
ORDER OF THE BATH. _ _

The SPEAKER then left the Chair, the house having re-
solved itself into committee.
Mr. STANLEY should occupy the attention of the
house for a short time while he went into a detail of
some circumstances connected with the conferring of
the grand orders of the Bath. Since the year 1814,
there was a great augmentation in the number of persons
who had had the honour of receiving those orders. Some
new regulations were contemplated, and it was sug-
gested to his Majesty to limit that number, so as to
render it much more a mark of distinction than of
degradation to enjoy that honour. For, however
honourable it might be to be admitted to them, yet if the
number be indefinitely increased, the exceptions upon
the rule would be too many to have them considered a
mere exception. It was intended to adopt the statute
to the circumstances of some who might be admitted to
those orders, especially military men, so as to exempt them
from the enormous fees ordinarily paid on admission. It
was intended those on whom the order of the Great Cross
should be conferred were to be exempted, for it came very
burdensome on military men, who had little more than their
honours, to be subject to such heavy payments of fees.
The amount charged to those upon whom the honour was
conferred was paid in the shape of fees, partly to the
officers appointed, partly to the Lord Chamberlain, and
then there was a sum of 1/. 3s. 6d. to the King's barber,
which it would be admitted was quite unnecessary ; but the
charge to officers upon whom that honour was conferred
amounted to 386/. This, it would be admitted, was an
enormous sum. (Hear, hear.) The officers of the
order amounted to about nine, and the salaries paid them
amounted to 550/. annually. (Hear, hear.) Besides
these salaries there was also a sum of about 2.50/.
paid annually by the public, for the fees of
foreigners of distinction upon it was thought proper to
confer the order, but whom it was not considered right to
charge, and these fees had been defrayed by the public. It
was proposed to reduce the officers of the order from nine
to four, and to make the total amount of their salaries
rather less than it now stood upon the civil list, and to do
away with the expense which was hitherto borne by these
distinguished- officers. Many of the officers of the order
held their situations by letters patent and other titles, and
he (Mr. Stanley) need hardly say that it would
be necessary to compensate them. ( Hear, hear. )
For this purpose, therefore, he proposed to move a

resolution (which would enable him afterwards to bring in
a bill) to inquire into the amount of fees paid to the
officers of the Order, and the tenure and right under
which they held their offices, in order to award them
such compensation as might be deemed necessary.
The right honourable gentleman concluded by moving—
" That it is the opinion of the committee of this house,
that the Commispners of his Majesty's Treasury be au-
thorised to make compensation out of the consolidated fund
of the United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland, to
such officers of the Military Order of the Bath as may be
deprived of certain salaries and fees to which they were
entitled to under the existing statutes of the said Order."
Mr. HUME said it was very true that such offices were
absurd, and really improper. The right honourable
gentleman seemed to forget the absurdity also of the fees
that were requiredto be paid on other occasions. It would be
recollected that the committee on military establishments
•had found that certain individuals from the station they
held were subject to enormous charges ; so much so, that very
often an officer appointed to some inconsiderable office
in the colonies had to remain there for some years actu-
[ ally to make up the amount required. Sir George Hill,
on being appointed Governor of St. Vincent, had to
pay fees to the extent of 5641. 10s. Sir Lewin
Grant, on receiving a similar appointment, had to pay
458/. Sir L. Smith had to pay no less a sum than
5981. 18s. Against all this there was, as there could not
fail to be, great complaint, although, for the last
three years he (Mr. H.) did not know that the sub-
ject had been mentioned in the house (Hear, hear)
except once when it was brought forward by himself. The
house had been taken by surprise as to the intention of
government on this subject. The most meritorious
officers had to pay the most objectionable fees
on being appointed to honours. The present honour or
order was a royal order—it was in the King's hands to say
what fees should be paid on exercise of his royal pre-
rogative. lie had on a former time submitted
a proposition for the reduction of all fees of this descrip-
tion , • and the house ought to go further than was
nowproposed. (Hear.) It ought not to take this
order in an isolated way, a very different course
ought to be taken, which he hoped would, and then satis-
faction might be expected to be given. Mr. Hume next
proceeded to particularise the various items. There were
Si. for herald's fees. Now, the herald might be a poor
man ; but still he did not see why t'he country should be
charged for his support. He ought to be made to do
without such fees. Then there was 201. for the Garter
King-at-Arms ; 161. for the Scotchfunetionary.
Mr. O'CONNELL—What for the Irish?
Mr. HUME—Oh, nothing goes to Ireland. (Laughter.)
The fees were most shameful. There was 26/. ss. for the
chief clerk ; messengers, 2/. ; and coach-hire, Si. 10s.
He did not know what the making a baron had to do with
coach-hire. (Laughter.) Black rod, 21. 10s. The entire
question should be considered together ; and if the right
hon. gentleman would take a suggestion from him, he would
agree that a committee should be appointed (Hear), to take
the entire question into consideration. (Hear.) The King
might confer an honour, but he should pay for it. He
likewise considered, that a patent granted by one King
ought not to be held under another. It should expire with
the demise of the sovereign who granted it. The King,
likewise, ought not to have the power to grant honours,
Iwhen the people were to be taxed for conferring them.
( Hear.) If the prerogative was taken away, there would be
an immense saving to the country. Such were the subjects
that should engage the attention of a reformed parliament.
Reform was but a nullity, if such proceedings were al-
lowed to go on unchecked and unrestrained. He was
an old stager in abuses. (Hear, hear, and much
laughter.) He was an old hand, and accustomed to such
expressions of opinion, and was not to be moved by them.
( Hear.) He had been well acquainted with all the de-
grees and shapes which corruption and abuse had taken,
but did not know till the other day that the mercantile
community had been charged 11,000/. a year for the bill
of entry ; and such an impost had been going on for the
last ten years ; 1,0001. a year was given as a salary to the
officer, and the remaining portion to a purpose against
which he did not object—some charitable institution at
Greenwich. He had learned that circumstance by find-
ing, in a public office, that 1501. a year was charged for a
patent place, coming out of the profits of the bill of entry.
Thus 61. a year was demanded for a document which the
public would get for 1/. but for this shameful monopoly.
He stood forward to advocate the lessening of the public
expenditure, the abolishing of useless offices, the drawing
of the drains which fed the pampered sinecurist, and bring-
ing the outlay of the country within fair, just, and equit-
able limits. He did not wish—God forbid he did—to re-
strain his Majesty from making dukes, marquises, earls,
viscounts barons, grand crosses, and the rest ; but let him
do it at his own expense ; let him draw upon his own ample
resources, and let not the beggarly people of England (No,
no)—yes, he would say the beggarly, over-taxed, poor,
hard-working people of England—be called upon to pay for
such honours. England was strictly a civil country, a
nation opposed in constitution, habits, feelings, and desires
to the despotic states of the continent ; still it was found
that all distinctions were almost exclusively conferred upon
military and naval officers. There were no orders to re-
ward the man of genius and of science; none to pay him
for the halo he gave to the name of England. If honour
was to be conferred upon him, the King should look be-
yond the seas for it. He must go to Hanover to find the
crosses and the ribands. There were but few men of emi-
nence (whose pursuits were civil) Knights of the Bath ;
they were, indeed, few and far between. There were five
orders—the Garter, Thistle, St. Patrick, the Bath, and
the fifth, a new one, St. Michael and St. George of the
lonian Islands ; but there was not one to give honour to
the man of genius and talent. It was quite different on
the Continent—there was found the man of literary emi-
nence in his proper place. If they went to Prussia, they
found him honoured—if to France, highly and nobly dis-
tinguished. England stood alone, and still she was a civil
country. (Hear, hear.) But again, to refer to the im-
mediate subject before the house, he would not consent
that so serious a charge upon the public should be left
to the discretion of the Lords of the Treasury. He
should, therefore, move as an amendment, to refer his
Majesty's message to a committee of the house to report
thereon.

Mr. BERNAL would put it to his hon. friend whether
he would persist in his amendment ; he must be aware that
it could not be entertained, inasmuch as the question was
then before a committee of the house.

Mr. HUME—WeII, then, he should get over the in-
formality, and move that the Chairman should report pro-
gress, and get leave to sit again.

- The question having been put,
Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY seconded the motion for the li
Chairman to quit the chair, and get leave to sit again.
Mr.. STANLEY said no great inducement certainly was
held out to ministers to come down to relieve the country
from burdens which pressed heavily upon the people, when
they were met, as had been the case that evening, with
charges of indifference to the public distress. Here they
were desirous to put an end to fees which were onerous,
but to deal fairly with those who claimed compensation.
Some of the fees, he admitted, might be uncalled for, and
were unnecessary, but that was a reason for the course
which ministers then proposed to adopt. The order had
been instituted in 1399, and the fees had not increased
since 1725. ( Hear, hear.) Now, they proposed to do away
with the fees ; and with the reservation, that fees which
were held by patent should be secured by a just and equit-
able tenure. ( Hear.) It had been stated that rewards
were conferred solely on naval and military officers. Now
that, he contended, was incorrect. The highest orders
were not debarred from civilians. (Hear, hear.) As to the
fees chargeable at the investiture, he considered they ought
not to fall on the officers themselves. Men who had served
and bled in the cause of their country, with, perhaps, mo-
derate incomes, should not be called upon to pay for that
which they had nobly andhonourably earned. ( Hear, hear. )
Well, then, if that fact was admitted, if that concession
was given to him, he would defy any other conclusion to
be come to, than the one which he supported. In respect
to the amendment proposed, it would be ungracious if they
reported progress, and gave no answer but complaints to
the message of his Majesty.
Sir E. CODRINGTON hoped no amendment would
be carried to the motion, which he called a benevolent one,
then before the house. He held in his hand the original
bill which had been presented to him when he had been
made-Grand Cross of the Bath, and which showed the
charges made to be most monstrous. He had been
shocked when it first came before him, and determined
never to pay a farthing of it. (Hear, hear.) The honour
had been conferred upon him gratuitously ; he did not seek
it ; if he was called upon to purchase it, he would consider
it valueless, and if he had paid the fees, would consider it
in no other light than a purchase. (Hear, hear, hear. )
He had shown the bill to the Lords of the Admiralty, who
said it was too bad, but declared he should pay it. He
strongly said—No ! (Laughter.) He was then referred
to the Order in Council : but he answered he did not make
the Order in Council. The King's Household demanded
122/. 2s. from him ; he did not know for what. He de-
nied their right, and the sequel proved he had not been
wrong : the claim had not been pressed. (Laughter. )
There could be no justifiable grounds to call on officers to
pay for distinctions which their sovereign and country had
conferred. After the war a number of orders were granted
by his late Majesty ; and when the bills were sent to the
respective officers, they demurred to their liquidation.
They went to Court to the Levee, and left the bills on the
table to be paid by the King if he thought fit. (Hear,
hear.) He (Sir E. Codrington) would now read the bill
he had got to the house, and begged its attention. It was
as follows :

Secretary of State £:6 17 6
Seven officers of the Order 164 17 2
King's Household 122 2 0
The Lord Chamberlain's Office 26 14 6
College of Arms for Supporters 55 16 0

Making a total of £3S6 7 2
He (Sir Edward Codrington) had, however, no reason
personally to complain ; for he had heard no more of the
matter.

Colonel DAVIES would support the amendment.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the first question to be consi-
dered was the legality of those fees. Now, from the state-
ment of the gallant -admiral, they were not legal, for if
legal, why were they not enforced?
lir. STANLEY must interrupt the hon. member fc4

Dublin ; from the gallant admiral's distinguished services,
there had been an exception made in his favour. His fees
were paid by the public.
Mr. O'CONNELL—WeII, be it so ; but what would be
said of the crowd of officers who had thrown their bills on
the King's table ? The gallant admiral had exposed a
species of pure piracy, and no one was better qualified to blow '
such a system up than the hon. and distinguished officer.
Sir ROBERT PEEL merely rose for the purpose of
recording his dissent to an observation—in fact a proposi-
tion—made by the hon. member for Middlesex—namely,
the institution of a new order for rewarding scientific men.
He was strongly opposed to such a principle, and he denied
that such was at all necessary. The King had already the
power of rewarding those who had risen to eminence by
their talents and exertions in their respective professions,
and it would not be prudent to further interfere. The
hon. member, himself a scientific man, must know that
there were some men to whom honours were unnecessary,
which could not confer higher dignity than their genius
and their talent had invested them with. What he (Sir
R. Peel) would ask, would a blue riband or a collar do for
a Newton? (Hear, hear.) Would they make his name
more hallowed—his family more endurable? No, cer-
tainly not. There should be a line of distinction drawn,
for, if not, many would be seeking them ; the members of
the House of Commons would be looking for orders; but
such would not accord with the simplicity of the English
character. He would not mix up scientific ingenuity with
military favour ; he would leave it in the possession of its
own ennobling honours. (Hear.) He trusted the plan of
the hon. member for Middlesex would be adopted.
Mr. WARBURTON considered the right hon. baronet
must have mistaken the purport of his hon. friend's re-
marks. He had not proposed the creation of a new order
of knighthood, but he had stated that rewards were solely
conferred on naval and military officers. Neither had the
right hon. the Secretary for the Colonies nor the gallant
admiral rightly understood his hon. friend. He opposed
the principle then contended for. He would do away with
all existing expenses attachable to the conferring the dig-
nity of knighthood, and have a full investigation into the
different offices whose holders were considered to be enti-
tled to remuneration.
Mr. STANLEY said there was very little if any diffe-
rence in the question. It had never been intended to grant
compensation to those who were not fully entitled to it ;
and he would appeal to the right hon. baronet opposite if
the inquiry would not be better placed before the Lords of
the Treasury than in a committee of that house.
Sir HENRY HARDINGE agreed with the right hon.
gentleman in referring the question entirely to the trea-
sury. While on his legs, he could not avoid stating that
he considered the order of the bath had become deterio-
rated. Honours should be conferred with a most sparing
hand, if they were to be considered of great value.
Major HANDLEY would support the hon. member for
Middlesex's amendment.

Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON opposed the giving of
compensation in such a case. The original fees were 1201.
and now they were no less than 1,2001.
Mr. JERVIS objected to the proposition before the
house, because he could see no grounds for giving com-
pensation.

Mr. HUME could not object to this resolution, in as
far as it simply went to abolish those fees. He would ask,
however, the right hon. gentleman, whether he would not
extend the resolution, so as to abolish all fees, not only on
receiving the order of the bath, but also on receiving all
other honorary grants ? He thought, however, that the
subject had better be referred to a committee up stairs,
but he would not divide the house on the amendment.

The report was then agreed to, and ordered to be received
on Monday next.
SALARY OF THE LORD CHIEF JUSTICE.

On the motion being made for the house to resolve itself
into a committee of supply,
Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to ask the right hon.
gentleman opposite a question regarding the salary of the
Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench. He wished to
know by what authority the salary of the present Lord
Chief Justice was restricted to 8,0001. a year? He
thought that the Lord Chief Justice had, by law, a vested
interest in a salary of 10,0001. Even so late as 1832, an
act was passed which fixed the salary of all the judges ap-
pointed till a certain period at 5,5501. a year, and those
appointed after that period at 5,0001. By the same act
the salary of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland was fixed at
8,0001. and that of the Lord Chief Justice of the King's
Bench in England at 10,0001. Now he wished to know
by what authority the salary had been lessened?
Mr. SPRING RICE said that the present Lord Chief
Justice had accepted the office under a specific understand-
ing that he should take it at the limited salary. If, how-
ever, the right hon. baronet would ask him the question on
Monday, he should be able to give a more specific answer
than he could at present. He was fully aware of the ob-
jection of the right hon. baronet. The right hon. baro-
net considered that if the salaries of the judges were fixed
by the law, it would be inexpedient if any authority short
of the law should be allowed to alter them. He (Mr.
Rice) would at present say no more on the subject, but
would be ready to give an answer on Monday.
Sir R. PEEL said, that if the right hon. gentleman
could get over that point he would be perfectly satisfied.
Mr. AGLIONBY begged to ask the right hon. baronet
a question regarding a bill, which excited a good deal of
interest in the whole of the northern parts of the kingdom.
He alluded to a bill which was introduced by the Attorney-
General last session, the object of which was to allow te-
nants of customary lands to grant demises of those lands.
He wished to know whether the Government still adhered
to the intention of passing such a bill ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM would communicate with his
learned friend, the Attorney-General, on the subject, and
as far as he was concerned, he should rejoice to see such a
measure passed.
The house then resolved itself into a
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

On the motion that 1,940/. be granted to his Majesty to
defray the expenses of the civil establishment of the Bahama
Islands,

Mr. -HUME hoped that the right hon. Secretary for the
Colonies would hold out a hope of some reduction in the
expense of the American colonies.
Mr. STANLEY was as much inclined as the hon.
gentleman to reduce those expenses, but in the distressed
state of Newfoundland he could hold out no hope of reduc-
tion as far as regarded that colony. With regard to
Prince Edward's Island he hoped that in a few years it
would cease to be a burden to this country.—Agreed to.
Mr. SPRING RICE then moved that 4,2941. be
granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the civil
establishment of the Bermuda Islands.

After a few words from Mr. HUME,
Mr. O'CONNELL said, in reference to what had been
said on the Judges' salaries, he thought that judges ought
either to have such high salaries that they could afford to
save something out of them, or have handsome retiring al-
lowances. He knew that judges did not retire when their
age and infirmities would often prompt them to do so,
merely because, in retiring, they not only abandoned all
the patronage and dignity accompanying the seat on the
bench, but because they also abandoned a large portion of
the salary. It would, in his opinion, be of advantage to
the public if there was little or no difference made between
the salary of a judge while on the bench and his retiring
allowances.

Mr. HUME deprecated the system of allowing colonial
judges to retire, in the prime of life and health, after six
or seven years of service. He knew many India jugdes
who might very well be promoted to the bench, and their
present retiring allowance thereby saved. Many of them
were just as fit to be judges as he was.—(A laugh. )
Mr. C. FERGUSSON said that the hon. member for
Middlesex seemed to think of nothing but cheap justice.
He (Mr. F.) felt differently. He would not, like the hon.
member, look first whether the commodity was cheap, and
then look if it were good. He would first look if it was
good, and then see if it was cheap.
Mr. O'CONNELL fully concurred in opinion with the
hon. and learned member for Kirkcudbright, and it was on
that account he had said that such salaries should be given
to judges that they could lay up a part.
Mr. HUME was sure that high salaries did not always
insure good services. As an instance of which, a gentle-
man had lately been appointed to the bench in Ireland,
who, according to the hon. and learned member for Dub-
lin, was the worst calculated in Ireland for such an ap-
pointment. This showed that high salaries did not insure
Mr. STANLEYyen on the ground of economy, to pay the
odcosuenrvtricye
said, that it would be advantageous for
the
go
judges well:

After a few words from Mr. S. RICE, the vote was
agreed to.

-3,1201. were then voted to defray the expenses of the
civil establishment of Prince Edward's Island.
Mr. S. RICE then moved that 12,3611. 13s. 6d. be
granted to defray the expenses of the civil establishment on
the West coast of Africa.

Mr. HUME asked how long the country was to continue
to pay these large sums for that useless colony ?
Mr. S. RICE said that the expense had been greatly
reduced. In 1831, the expense of one establishment on
the coast of Africa was 50,000/. ; in 1832, 33,0001. ; in
1833, 17,000/. ; and now it was only 12,0001.—(11ear.)
It was absolutely necessary that the country should . have
an establishment on the coast of Africa ; and it was a ques-
tion whether Fernando Po or Sierra Leone should be re-
tained ; but it was found that the Spanish Government had
a claim on Fernando Po, and consequently Fernando Po
was entirely abandoned, and Sierra Leone was kept.
Colonel DAVIES said that Fernando Po ought not to
have been abandoned. Spain wished to get possession of
it, in order to facilitate the slave trade which that country
carried on.

Mr. S. RICE said that it was the wish of the Govern-
ment to retain Fernando Po instead of Sierra Leone • but
that was not practicable on account of the claim of the
Spanish Government.
After a few words from Mr. HUME,

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the report of the ad-
miral on the coast was decidedly in favour of retaining
Sierra Leone in preference to Fernando Po. lie was glad
to say that the colony of liberated Africans at Sierra
Leone was flourishing; that the people were intelligent,
active, and industrious; that some of them were now em-

ployed on board the King's ships on that coast, and that
civilization was making great progress among them.
The vote was then agreed to. .dhe
On the motion being put that 14,870/. IBs. b • ta,
granted to defray the expense of our ecclesiastical es
blishment in the North American provinces, e
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to oppose the motion. rfb,
salary of the Bishop of Quebec was 3,0001., which
more than the income of almost any landed proprietor la
that country. He moved as an amendment, that the vole
to
be reduced to 7,8701., and he was determined to divide ti
house on the question.
Mr. STANLEY said that it was only a few years ag°v
that it had been resolved that the colonies should deb's,
the expense of their own ecclesiastical establishments, a!
the proposition at the time created such astonishment 1!:
the hon. member for Middlesex, that he exclaime4,
" What, bishops and all ?" At that time it was resolve.,
that the present incumbents should retain their salaries 4
order not to interfere with the rights of individuals. 11.',
regard to the salary of the Bishop of Quebec, any reducnotio
would be of as little consequence to that rev. prelate ast.i.
any man ; for a few years ago, when he felt that from it':
great extent of his diocese, he could not give it that
tention which he thought he should give, he offer; &
give 1,000/. of his salary, in order to establish an t
pendent prelacy in the upper part of the country; ad'e
was only declined on account of the arrangement 0,
The vote, as originally proposed, was then
with Parliament, that in future the colonies should OP
port their own ecclesiastical establishments.
Mr. SPRING RICE moved, that a sum o'l'l exceedist
e settlement
5,8061. be granted to defray the expenses of th
of Western Australia, from March 1834 till 1835. only
Mr. HUME had heard it stated that the COloYge
contained a population of 1,500 souls altogether.
the
begged to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite, willed to
the proposed grant was not too large ? He also wisil that
know what was the exact amount of the population 0
colony. h use
Mr. STANLEY said the hon. member and 00'
might rest assured that there was no unnecessary Veto
ture of the public money in the settlement of es
Australia.
hich 101
not t0..14

justhadMbre.eSnPvßerlyNgrGeaßtllyCrEedusaeeidd tihnatthteheeefingursere:::en;le;ei:
been mentioned showed that the expenses of the c
It was extremely difficult at all times to establish a, -de
colony, and it certainly could not be done without a_np,
expenditure of money in the first instance. As rel,6-r
, for
the concluding question of his hon. friend the inextiol
Middlesex, he (Mr. Spring Rice) could not tell eTire
the exact amount of population in the settlement 01 '' wsi
Australia ; but of this he was quite certain, that it
much greater than his hon. friend supposed.
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of 20,000/. was voted to defray the expensed
the establishment in the Indian Department in UPPer
Lower Canada.
23,000/. were voted on account of the expenses of neth
dis,
deau Canal, from March of the present year till March, 1
The next grant proposed was the sum of MOyid
meet the salaries of the governors, deputy-g°veonier?,s
other officers in his Majesty's West India Colo
Agreed to.
of '
. 30,0
be granted to defray the salarie'rof the special justice.s.
appointed, under the act of last session, for the abohtio
o°too
Mr. SPRING RICE moved, that the sum
s
slavery throughout the British colonies.
In answer to a question from Mr. HUME,
Mr. N
stipendiarylndies, but others would go as soon as the necessal
ST A
magistrates
st Y
rat stated, that
, b been
as n yets ent only fourteen
to theokrtlefti:
rangements in the colonies were completed.
The vote was then agreed to. thel
The next sum moved for was 1,457!. 15s. to de'' tsj
salaries and other expenses of the seven emigration
In answer to a question from an How. MEacen',,e of
Mr. STANLEY gave some account of the na'-„iie
these agencies. He stated that early last year an aPr„„cdl
tion had been made to the house from Liverpool, iln.",:n'd
one of its members, stating the great inconvenienc,ees
expense sustained not only by the emi,grants thenaseli,
__"eot
by the town, from the want of some efficient arrangel,l.l.o
for the due forwarding of emigrants to their severalsese„ot
nations in America. In very many cases emigrants
in the vague idea that an emigration ship was
a great portion of their earnings in coming to 1-• "
although, in point of fact, the ship was not to sail for n!,,,
time. The consequence was, that the rest of theirrinaola
speedily went, in most cases the paupers being det nu.e,
of it by the numerous cheats who lurked about undherjled
tence of giving them information, getting them bert.
_ras of
so on, and the consequence had been that vast nunin,e_s of
emigrants were annually thrown on the poor raic6o,
Liverpool, sometimes for six months together.
reside
vernment had accordingly appointed an agent tn. o, in-
at Liverpool, who devoted his whole time inn ivu!ri, to
formation to emigrants as to the best mode of gMein
America, the best place to go to, and toproteci,hed
against every species of fraud. The consequencertioo
been most satisfactory and gratifying to all Pa4fteea
since the appointment of the agent not less than
about tossoa_oe
thousand emigrants had derived the benefit of his a,...00,1
assistance, and protection ; and, instead of being tit sa.
on the funds of the town, had been forwarded to their
use
rious destinations with the least possible delay and esPe_.,,
to themselves. In short, the plan had been found to a:e,
swer so well, that government had made similar arra.tig
ments with six other sea-port towns—namely, 13nissoo
Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Limerick, and Greenock ; and.
these places the plan had produced the same beneficial
sults to all parties. The arrangement made by G
which
ment with the authorities of these seven places, an" f
had been most readily agreed to, was that they should the
nish the respective agents With board and lodgin g",hieli
salaries paid to each agent was 1001. a year, beside!a he
50/. a year each was allowed for sundry expenses;
full be
(Mr. Stanley) had the best reason for stating his.
lief that this small outlay was the means of saving s'
hundred times its amount in the course of the year'
rrect'
Lord SANDON bore testimony to the perfect.,_° eery
ness of the right hon. secretary's statement of to'
beneficialsir revststNofEthye
wararsanugnedmeresntototdo
toL ask
iverpool• ber ani
H.
whet
similarit
g going t arrangement
os A Australia
N LE„, ht
r.
Mr. SLANEY co
would be very advisable. res-
eg • -
ir had been made in favour of einigl-
saneidn,rrneodt
in
nt
tphree present,
oba butt 10;
ohly e
by hon. members of the arrangement ; it Was ll° securiod
ditable to government to have thus interfered `,Tied etr„.l3l
to the emigrant the full benefit of his hard-ea,,, a
ings. The hon. member concluded by Pes,sY xerP°-
eulogy on Sir Wilmot Horton for his distinguis°`-e
in favour of emigrants. „if. Wil"
Mr. HUME utterly and entirely objected tfTrit bee,
mot Horton's plans, which he was very glad
carried into effect ; he (Mr. H.) was A
holly be e
all such compulsory measures. He approved n though-
t
vernment arrangement, and (as we understood..) oive,rs'
that the selection of agents among half-pay nalia'
in general a very notorious body, was creditable to get'
ters. He thought that the appointment of a ein/illial;t:i
for the city of London would be extremely be..,rlA" reeL,"‘,3
all parties, and he was pretty sure the city Not"-.,ece?`
make the same terms with government as had been on
the other towns.
Mr. RUTHVEN also expressed his favourable opt
of the arrangement. f age
Mr. PEASE said that he hoped the same so.- °O, ing.t4
cies would be established in favour of emigrantsi„e:ressl-
Australia, who at present laboured under very
difficulties from the want of such assistance.

1

The vote was agreed to. ri It
IRISH ESTIMATES.
Esiltilmr.atSePs RwlasN Gp r RlCE,epar eprepared
fnirn
objectionsbrinng forward wa• a:edribtocepiettitibatet'
nature. By some, he knew, it would be ehJt-herV,,-
they had been reduced too much, and by °;,,,,01,e,,i5
member for Middlesex,
.perhaps, amongst the „'" th°lses
that they were not sufficiently reduced. Ilenrel—eotittl,e;
since he had come into his present office the Irish that t
had been reduced 104,0001., yet he felt confide,ltteresi'ob•
were not so reduced at the expense of the real —ober 00
Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Before any hon. oree letbecii
jetted to the reductions which had taken Yla:10130,11ent
examine upon what it was that the reductulioterheo.l
made. Was it, he would ask, the duty of the esr,„ colt'
to continue the charter schools of Ireland? 051‘, itaf:
Was it the duty of the government, he wotn.oo, gost re-
tinue such an institution as the Founall vote
(Hear, hear.) These were two grants Leos Of the
ductions had been made. (Hear.) There stions tout'.
upon which he wished to offer a few observate for tivolt
house, as it was a new one—he meant the v°riment oar
tion. (Hear. ) If ever there was an eqe„ to tot"
the result of which the originators had rease;f eatte4a
tulate themselves, it was this new syster% lavishbest it
which certainly did full justice to those `P t eitei
(Hear, hear.) It had been objected to tile_S therns,cee.3
was impracticable, as the people would not 07ot s';',.elv
of it; and it had also been said that it COTs„aiate"
or be attended with advantage, because it Ina4e tioo
gious from civil education. Those who 131-'1
7. appliae
objections he should refer to the number 01,,siv nil'
which had been made to the Board, for a "were 0,01,
swer to their reasoning. The applicatielherationier
merous, which was not a matter of td apply grs°,,
government whether or not they won. nether Tor
was a 2110
larger grant. ( Hear, hear. ) There tie lop't
which required a few words in explanation-
negastlos"'(ll4
Fore
of 2,000/. in the grant to the
For a long series of years that instituti 'genet:4oi
private subscriptions. 30,0001. (the rightb "
the fel Siege
was understood to say) was subscribed
, yutistea• dpi
o
science, upon which the institution main.)".„ssupport, :yr
1827 a grant of 1,500/. was voted for "
iof 2,00°1' "'that
the present estimate an additional granthe
PurP°se Aear .)
~„cati°,ll„'
of the institution by local subs( riptions. ant for el"'"
Mr. RUTHVEN approved of the gr
lfastlnstitutioo;.,steel
as also the additional grant to the Be
of
giving a
5.).101
iii
was happy to hear that the experiment
been sn succe
of national education to Irelan i had
At ,ecaroi
ric(siuniforbaeddraitiisoendalforbuthildeinsagms,e upon the c
its results.
20,0001., be granted to enable t
co e
Ireland to'issue money for the advancement
The question was then put that
I ea aLainordnlTieyet-acunfoioa

from the Ist of April, 1834, to the Ist of April, 1835.
Agreed to.
Ir. SPRING RICE said that in proposing the next
vote 18,9191. for the Foundling Hospital, he would take
this opportunity of saying that he had no doubt that this
vote, would be, in no very long time, completely abolished.
(Hear, hear).
In reel y' to a question from Mr. HUME,
friend,teß h RING RICE said that since his right hon.
present Secretary for the Colonies, had been in
Ireland, noHospital. children had been admitted to the Foundling
Mr. RUTIIVEN said he would not vote against the es-
timate, but he was disappointed at the parsimony of his
Majesty's government, and expressed his regret at the
withdriwal of the vote from the Foundling Hospital of
Dublin.
Mr. HUME hoped that his hon. friend would be con-
s°led under the feeling that the withdrawal of this grant
would, perhaps, be the means of improving the morals of
the country.
Alr. FRENCH (we believe) stated that the hon. and
'earned gentleman, the Recorder of Dublin, had declared
that since the closing of the hospital the crime of infanti-
cide had ceased.
Mr. RICE said that the matter had met with every at-
tention from his Majesty's Government, and from the re-
turns which had been laid before them, they did not find
such a result had occurred.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the CH A IRM AN putting the next item, that 20,000/.
;ue allowed to his Majesty to defray the expense of support-
111g the House of Industry in Dublin, the lunatic depart-
me‘ot, and the three general hospitals attached,
lion. HUME would take that opportunity of telling his
friend below him (Mr. Ruthven), that he thought
the state were bound to maintain hospitals of this kind;
Whilst, on the other hand, he held that giving encourage-
ment to the Foundling Hospital was improper. With refe-
rence to this estimate, he objected to the first item, which
flaunted to 6,000/. The hon. gentleman concluded by mov-
ing the reduction of this grant to 14,0001.
After a few words from Messrs. RICE, LITTLETON,
'IITIrE, and RUTHVEN, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote put was 4001. for the Hibernian Marine
Society. —Agreed to.
wi-'ls°o/. to the Female Orphan House, and 2,500/. to the
estrnoreland Lock Hospital, were also agreed to, after a
few
Tiviiorels from Messrs. FRENCH and RICE.
e CHAIRMAN having put the next estimate, that
a suirl
°f I 2°ol be granted for the Lying-in Hospital,
Dublin, *
RUTHVEN complained of a reduction of 300/. on
vote as compared with that of the former vote.
Mr. WARBURTON could not see why a principle
should not be acted upon similar to that which had been
s
nacouraged in our naval and military
siens_tarituteioenss byy Alinejletsty's Government, b which these
ast g
as ta"
sh-
Tho:trieeremade to support far possible.
Government,inthese cases, made the parents of
children senttomilitary schools, &c., contribute such fair
Sams as might be required. He begged on this occasion to
call the attention of his right hon. friend the Secretary of
the Treasury to an hospital which had just been established,
Palled the North London Hospital, in which, instead of the
students' fees being put into the pockets of the professors,
&c., they were to go towards the support of the establish-
ment. He would put it to his right hon. friend, whether
the same principle might not be acted upon with a view to
save a large portion of the annual expense ? These fees
amounted to a large sum, and in the greater number of
eases the medical officers received large salaries for their
attlendance. In the North London Hospital, on the con-
'ary, those persons were not to receive any salary or fees.
ir. O'REILLY begged to assure the hon. gentleman
tll t the Dublin establishments did not afford such sine-
cures as he seemed to suppose ; and, surely, he would not
deprivef them of such a small remuneration as that of the
Ireland
Paid by the students. Li several of the hospitals in
eilaannd
sic n° species of salary was given to surgeons or phy-
aid s' He thought that they who sought to lessen the
landpfirorptosed should begin their work of reduction in Eng-
Mr Him
Mean; said the meaning which his hon. friend
duty wit convey was, that if some persons did not do their
he ylwithout
thou to the public purse, others did; and
the(' Ir- Hume) ght they ought all to be placed on
same footing.llr.Mr O'REILLY explained.
Rrid• RICE understood his hon. friend, the member for
sbourrt, merely to raise the proposition whether fees
just;to not be applied in their case to the support of the
sit 'cintiwis• Having said thus much, he would not
Yoienewo without bearing his testimony to the bene-
whiee' hamane, conscientious, and liberal feeling,
/1,,,,a distinguished the medical men of Dublin, and of
nd generally.
lostit colonel
„ PERCEVAL expressed his approbation of this
M s't.ion, and of the way in which it was conducted.
tats aI°THERTON knew the practice in the hospi-
or
the to be to appropriate the fees to the_ sup-
portteProfess°'Re respective institutions, and not to enrich the
Air, 1.8
°r officers.
ralitv sPITZ GERALD bore his testimony to the libe-
Theabatt
ttr. 'et the medical profession, and particularly to that of
who was a distinguished ornament to it.
1,500/.‘,ete„svas then agreed to ;
_as was also the next for
The T,tir. Stevens's Hospital.
agreed ,_'.l°wing resolutions were then proposed and
.--
1-10spitami aZit „exceeding 3,800/. for the supportof the Fever
bl es
A sum 14, 'l°,lse of Recovery, Cork-street, Dublin.
Dor t
eeeding 500/. for the Hospital of Incura-
(in th
to rd e motion for granting a sum not exceeding 8,978/.
le ' defraYing theexpense of the Roman Catholic Col-
lin:I Ireland for the ensuing year,
Dire
SINCLAIR proceeded to address the house in an
Col-
ander tone. He was anxious to call the attention of the
„'°lolnittee to this grant, which he much regretted to hear
Prob
a'n„r°sed by the right hon. Secretary on the present occa-
It was, in his opinion, not only unwise but unjust to
tl," upon thal house for a grant in support of a religion,
'"e members of which were bound by their doctrines not
Lilly to effect the destruction of the established church, but
he extirpation of Protestants. (No, -no, and Hear.) He
t‘°,aintained that to the Roman Catholic College established
LAlaynooth, was to be attributed in a great degree the
Roilo which existed in Ireland ; those evils having had their
satede in the doctrines disseminated by the priests edu-
etu there. He would also observe that the priests edu-
40v-erait t_hat establishment were not so well affected to the
the der "it as those-educated abroad. To the celibacy of
Predotignmight also be attributed their anxiety for the
hem father °f °f their religion. Their church was to
entsivel er, Mother, brother, and sister,- in it were ex-
thos centred all their affections. He was not one of
that'Lwl° believed in the present power of the Pope, or
n0,5"5 was enabled to dethrone monarchs, but he looked
laPv Protestants
the authority
as persons who had re belled against his
kirt Y he regarded them in the same light as
'get of Spain did his revolted South American colo-
thet.e e
.etween
the Roman Catholics and Protestants
keit ,Itisted a wide and unfathomable gulph. Protestants
adeht acate dissenters - members of these persuasions
of VI, sate dissenters sacred volume,'or bend the knee in a place
tolalteestant worship, but Roman Catholics were strictly
114:743' werebYd their religious instructors from doing so.
ti; to fact, bound in duty to use their efforts to
taltenund ,e Protestant church. Upon these grounds he
toe oPpose the grant, and (as we understood) to
the Zd ea of the committee upon it, if necessary.
Crlaithriernesros,itte4NTS said, that after the speech which
had just heard from the hon. member for
Ifeltthhat a speech as he had little expected to hear
t -at it we at a period like the present (Hear, hear), he
tollt to i,t, °tad become the duty of his Majesty's govern-
ite ess thedoce this grant in future in a different form.
thatee.ssivel" was done, the Roman Catholics would, in each
(R lust tultetar, be subject to hear some such attacks as
Of teha:iihear. e), ilwhOo/1 their religion and religious principles.
says „ 00. atever might be the feelings or opinions
the tCenlber for Caithness, he would venture to
gebtit.ughshere were few similar opinions entertained by
bettythe gentlemen of that house. It was well for
Ph from
, kscotland to say, that there was a wide
0„,,,.°1_ Roman Catholics and Protestants, and that
Y:100,4,4,
vvsalys, tight to be opposed; but he (Lord Clements)
h so Srf from wishing to oppose that grant he
or-tisteacty't see the College of. Maynooth placed upon a
this • er to beat respectable footing than it was. at present,
11, tractioner
qualify the Roman Catholic Priests for
°ltl 1°,..°,111d pi:4 of the pea le than they were at present...
10eet9-ve his cordial le
to the resolution, his
!loth: 8. 1}(11' to it being that the grant was too small.
wbeEk agreed with what had
.fallen from the
4h frien° had just sat down, respecting the speech of
eneeuT,estto„'" the member for Caithness. (Hear, hear. )
!roach delie,-,‘V051 which his hon. friend had touched, was
,°7lZedi. • and ought not to be inconsiderately ap-
'eelit,' "on. fri e effect of such observations as those used
IlarnPl4 end would be, to irritate and wound the
hear`\ous aerY religious peo le for such the great and
°f I'hß P 9C
th lics were. (Hear,
this v tr_s ris oman . a o
'ore us vot..o.ted there would arise no occasion to ..rbe-
-I)v:ftds e°,kaliteteircml being brought in its pres.ent e-
-t tb! -d by be. °f supply because of the few inconsiderate
°llucit On tte elso.._°?n. friend the member. for Caithness,.
,arge hi; "'vary a benefit would arise from so in-
A 0 he Zajority":lll49ll as there would every year be found
4 %all would
,° give it their cordial assent. For him- if no such religion as that of the
'e,rattoro.e ; existed, he would not consent to establish
irge ISuelt tahat Was not the question for their consi-
ta.lol,l b Nspec.religion did exist, and was professed by
4 gre eiriß ti table-body of their fellow-countrymen, Rs,. at ne
th:sit your
mou_reli4l.we object to your religion, and will not
ant "t of th institutions any support ? It was not
the ere to be grant that was an object, for if that
is fu, elep„,
_withheld to-morrow, the education of the
12,ecour, for'ttaslould not be checked ; on the contrary,
"'ould arY de, . Purpose would speedily increase by the
t'eato,thos atlons
lud at nl4'. !he
.Roman. Catholic body, who
4.. reed, he the hula, the indignation at such unworthy
the would sa s.of the legislature. (Hear, hear.)
41) to s, 'roan Cathy' if the hon. member wished to ren-
r epare., °P this " lie seminary more flourishing, he had 4 to .Rrant, in ord
stay t,:_order to make it so. He was
"" vote, should justification be found

necessary—but it was needless. He would content him-
self with saying that he wished Maynooth College was
placed upon a more extended and liberal footing.
Mr. C. FERGIJSSI ).s; v,;,, sure that there were but
very few Members for Scotland in that house who parti-
cipated in the opinions expressed by the hon. member for.
Caithness, or who would wish to deprive the Irish Roman
Catholics of the advice and consolation of their priesthood.
He confessed that it gave him pain to hear his hon. friend
(Mr. Sinclair) so express himself.
Mr. LITTLETON,. before the committee came to a
vote upon this occasion, felt bound to state that they ought
to take greater pains in affording education and religious
instruction to the great mass of the people of Ireland.
Whatever might be the faults growing out of the May-
nooth establishment, they might he attributed to the ex-
treme parsimony of the grants aZorded by Government.
Mr. JOHNSTON felt bound to oppose the grant.
Lord MANDEVILLE said that the Roman Catholics
were by the tenets of their religion bound in conscience to
exterminate Protestants and destroy the Established
Church. (Cries of " No, no.") He maintained that such
was the fact, and he could name instances in which it had
been openly avowed. (Cries of " Name, name.") There
were several, but he did not at that moment recollect
them. The Roman Catholics were heretics. (No, no. )
Certainly if we did not prove them guilty of heresy, then
they (the Catholics) might accuse them of schism in sepa-
rating from their church. He had uniformly opposed this
grant from the first period of having a seat in that house.
He did so on the principle that it was wrong to educate
persons who were to disseminate principles and opinions
respecting religion of which they disapproved. We had
not now precisely the same line of conduct to pursue, as
that house was not exclusively Protestant. He had stated
the grounds upon which hehad hitherto opposed the grant,
and now a new one presented itself, for he felt that in
1834 they ought to have no exclusive grants on the ground
of religion. (Cries of " Divide, divide.")
Mr. SINCLAIR had expressed fairly the opinions he
entertained, and would persevere in taking the sense of
the house upon the grant.
Mr. LEFROY could not see how hon. members could
vote in favour of a grant for the support and extension of
a religion which they held to be erroneous. He might be
mistaken, too, in saying that the Roman Catholics were
in error, but, under all the circumstances of the case, he
did not feel himself at liberty to concur in the vote, or to
suffer it to pass without expressing his dissent.
Dr. HERBERT BALDWIN was surprised at the
opposition given to the grant by the hon. and learned
gentleman (Mr. Lefroy) near him, who had by his prac-
tice in Ireland pocketed more money from the Roman
Catholics than ten times such a grant. (A laugh. )
Although accustomed, too well accustomed, to listen to
religious differences, and witness instances of bigotry in
his own country, he little expected to witness such an
instance of both as had that night presented itself in that
house. What did hon. members want ? Did they wish
to have an uninstructed clergy in Ireland, or did they wish
them to be merely a half-enlightened priesthood? He
scorned to defend the Roman Catholics of Ireland from
the imputations cast upon them by the hon. member for
Caithness, that it was their wish to exterminate the Pro-
testants, and to destroy the established church. That
charge had been already made, but 'it was scouted by the
Roman Catholics of Ireland. The Catholic clergymen,
he was prepared to say, would bear a comparison with the
clergy of any other religion in the world. Much was
said about the power of the Pope in the Catholic religion,
but in England or in Ireland he had no more power in
civil affairs than any hon. member in that house.
Mr. A. JOHNSTONE objected to the proposed vote,
not because he was a Presbyterian or a Protestant, but
because, upon principle, he was opposed to the proposed
grant. Let Christianity be supported—let honesty pre-
vail ; but Popery and Christianity could not exist together.
Such was his opinion, and, acting upon that opinion, he
felt it his duty to oppose the present motion. (Hear. )
After a few words from Mr. S. Rice, Mr. C. Fergus-
son, Mr. O'Reilly, and Mr. Barron, the house divided—
Ayes
Noes
Majority
The following votes were then agreed to :-
3121. to defray the expenses of the Royal Irish Academy.
5521. to defray the expense of the Royal Hibernian Aca-
demy for painting.
7881. Is. sd. to defray the expense of Commissioners of
charitable donations and bequests in Ireland.
3,5001. to defray the expense of the. Royal Belfast Aca-
demical Institution for the ensuing year.
13,8691. to defray the expense of public buildings in
the department of Commissioners of Public Works in
Ireland.

22,0601. to pay the salaries and expenses of the officers
of the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,
in Dublin and London, and his Majesty's Privy Council
offices in Ireland. Also the amount of the printer's bill for
printing for the public offices in Ireland.
Air. HUME considered this an extravagant vote, par-
ticularly when it was remembered that the expense of the
Home Secretary's office in England was only 19,000/. The
Lord-Lieutenant ought to be withdrawn, and then the
expenses of the useless staff would be saved. The Castle
of Dublin had been the focus of all the mischief and fac-
tion that existed in that country. Government ought se-
riously to take up the question, and before long relieve the
country from a large portion of the expense.
Mr. S. RICE said that reductions had already taken
place to a larger amount than was contemplated in the
Committee of 1825. This was not a proper time for going
into the mere general question to which the hon. member
had referred. In 1831, the expense of the office was
30,561/., and in 1834 it was only 22,000/., mpV;^".
saving in one single office of 8,561/. It was a mistake to
suppose that this vote only referred to the office of the
Chief Secretary of Ireland ; it provided for three separate
offices. Reductions had taken place fully adequate to the
just expectations of the house. It was a false economy to
reduce offices so as to make them inefficient.
After a few words from Mr. Littleton, Mr. O'Reilly,
Sir Robert Bateson, Mr. Wallace, and Mr. Ruthven, the
vote was agreed to. The house then resumed.

Lord ALTHORP brought in a bill for the better regu-
lation of the laws relating to the maintenance of the poor.
The bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a
second time on Monday se'nnight.
Mr. FITZGERALD asked if the right hon. secretary
meant to persevere in the call of the house for Tuesday
next?

Mr. S. RICE had given notice of the call of the house,
in consequence of the important discussion which was
coming on upon that night. He could now only say, that
every consideration that induced him to give notice of the
call, still operated in inducing him to persevere in enforcing
it.—Adjourned.

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE.

WAR-OFFICE, APRIL 18, 1834.

13th Light Dragoons—Cornet W. 'M. Julius to be
Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Hackett, who retires ; F.
Burdett, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Julius,
dated April 18.
16th Light Dragoons—Cornet R. Pattinson to be
Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Agar, promoted; C. de
Neufville Clifton, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice
Pattinson, April 18.
Ist or Grenadier Regiment of Foot Guards—Lieut. and
Capt. E. G. Douglas to be Captain and Lieutenant-Colo-
nel, by purchase, vice Des Vieux, who retires ; Ensign
and Lieut. F. C. Brooke to be Lieutenant and Captain, by
purchase, vice Douglas ; F. W. Allix, Gent., to be En-
sign and Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Brooke, April 18.
Ist Regiment of Foot—Captain J. A. Allen, from half-
pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Alexander Campbell,
who exchanges, receiving the difference, April 18.
45th Foot—T. Hunter, M.D., to be Assistant-Surgeon,
vice L. Leslie, who retires upon half-pay, April 18.
56th Foot—Staff-Assistant-Surgeon C. Proctor to be
Assistant-Surgeon, vice Gardiner, appointed to the 83d
Foot, Aril 18.
61st loot--Ensign H. Kelty to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase, vice Jones, promoted ; J. T. Mauleverer, Gent.,
to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Kelty, April 18.
83d Foot--Ensign J. T. James, to be Lieutenant, by
purchase, vice White, who retires; E. Steele, Gent., to
be Ensign, by purchase, vice James; Assistant-Surgeon
W. Gardiner, from the 56th Foot, to be Assistant-Sur-
geon, April 18.

DECLARATIONS OF INSOLVENCY.
EDWARD TYRREL SMITH, dealer, London-road,
St. George's-fields.
SAMUEL FORSTER, LUKE SMITH, and JAMES
JEWITT, cotton-spinners, Manchester.
BANKRUPTCIES SUPERSEDED.

PAUL EDWARD WEBER, iron-founder, Liverpool.
JOHN THOMAS TWELLS, draper, Tamworth, Staf-
fordshire.

BANKRUPTS.
DARIUS SHEPHERD, haberdasher, Hereford-place,
Commercial-road, to surrender April 30, at twelve, and
May 30, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Warne,
Leadenhall-street.

HENRY BINSTED, dealer in segars, Southampton-
buildings, Holborn, April 22, at three, and May 30, at
eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Evans, Gray's Inn-
square.
""JOSEPH HUNTER, shoemaker, Cheapside, April 29,
at twelve, and May 30, at eleven, at the Court of Bank-
ruptcy. Smedley, New Inn-buildings, New Inn.
JAMES NATION, turner, Birmingham, April 29, at
twelve, and May 30, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Willett, Essex-street, Strand.
WILLIAM ALEXIS JARRIN, confectioner, Quad-
rant, Regent-street, April 29, at one, and May 30, at
twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Umney and .Litch-
field, Chancery-lane.
MARTIN WERTHEIM, foreign warehouseman, Fri-
day-street, City, April 25, at two, and May 30, at twelve,
at the Court of Bankruptcy. Wilkinson, Bucklersbury.
SAMUEL WEST, fellmonger, Swathling, Southamp-
ton, May 2 and 30, at one, at the George Inn, Winchester.
Lee, NN inchester ; Sheppard, Lower Grosvenor-street,
Grosvenor-square, London. _ _ _

JOHN TAEGoNiiid; dealer, Manchester, May 6, at
three, and May 30, at ten, at the Commissioners' Rooms,

Manchester. Adlington, Gregory, and Faulkner, Bed-
ford-row London ; Mikinson, Manchester.
WILLIAM BATTIE, -silver plater, Sheffield, May
and 20, at twelve, at the Town Hall, Sheffield. Preston,
Tokenhouse-yard, London; Brookfield and Gould, Sheffield.
AMOS WEST, fellmonger, Wilton, Wiltshire, May 2
and 30, at three, at the George Inn, Winchester. Lee,
Winchester ; Sheppard, Lower Grosvenor-street, Grosve-
nor-square, London.
DIVIDENDS.

S. Barber, draper, Drury-lane, May 10, at eleven, at
the Court of Bankruptcy—J. Graham, upholder, Water-
loo-place, May 9, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy—
H. H. Frag,rnere, coffee-house-keeper, Strand, May 9, at
eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy—C. Christopherson,
printer, Brighton, June 27, at twelve, at the Town-hall,
Brighton—E. and W. Duncan, mercers, Brecon, May 15,
at twelve, at the Castle Hotel, Brecon—J. Morris, baker,
Cheltenham, May 10, at eleven, at the offices of Mr. J.
Packwood, Cheltenham—J. Barnett, coach-proprietor,
Birmingham, May 12, at eleven, at Dee's Royal Hotel,
Birmingham—F. M. Richards, wine-merchant, Leicester,
May 14, at two, at the White Hart Inn, Leicester—E.
Summers, linen-draper, May 13, at eleven, at the Com-
missioners' Rooms, Manchester.

CERTIFICATES.-MAY 9.

T. Dodd, ribbon-manufacturer, Coventry--W. N.
Bewsher, brewer, Brighton—G. F. Watts, money-scri-
viner, Bath—J. Romains, hosier, Gracechurch-street—
G. Dyson, picture-dealer, Pall-mall—J. Middemist, nur-
snyman, Shepherd's-bush—J. Newton, grocer, Pendle-
ton, Lancashire—C. Buckle, grocer, Barnard Castle,
Durham—H. Smethurst, hatter, George-street, Great
surrey-street, Surrey—S. Bennett, grocer, Bath—C.
liranwell, wine-merchant, Baker-street, Portman-square
—W. Wright, dealer, Heathfield, Lewes, Sussex.
PARTNERSHIPS
,DISSOLVED.

C. Smith and E. Trimmell, gold lacemen, Piccadilly—
J. and G. Steabben, grocers, Stoke Newington—W. Pirie
and Co., distillers, Broadford, Aberdeen—M. Jerdein and
G. Harkness, insurance-brokers, Lloyd's Coffee-house
--J. Inglis and A. Broom, haberdashers, Glasgow—F.
Grosjean and A. Goodbody, tailors, Quadrant, Regent-
street—G. Seccombe and J. Trist, tailors, Tavistock,
Derbyshire--. 1. Bond and Co., merchants, Basinghall-
street (as far as regards J. J. M. Bond)—H. Meux and
Co., porter-brewers, St. Giles's-in-the-Fields—C. Rey-
nolds and J. H. Blennerhassett, surgeons, Clapton-square,
Hackney—H. H. Grigg and C. Hamper, silk-mercers,
Cheltenham—F. G. Moon and Co., printsellers, Pall-
mall (as far as regards F. G. Moon)—J. Hartley and J.
Robinson, fustian manufacturers, Manchester—R. Kidd,
sen., and Co., mealmen, Godalming, Surrey (as far as re-
lates to R. Kidd, sen. )—T. Walmsley and H. Whitehead,
corn-factors, Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire—P. Alm-
lees and J. Manderson, saddlers, Glasgow.
SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS.
MUNRO and PETERSON, wine and spirit merchants,
Broomielaw, Glasgow, and G. MUNRO, one of the partners,
as an individual, creditors meet April 23 and May 7, at
twelve, at the Black Bull Inn, Glasgow.