The Sun.
London, England, 1805-06-13 00:00:00

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LORD iviELVILLE's IMPE-ACHNIE:4y.

Mr. LEYCESTER moved the Order of .the Day for
resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for
the Impeachme4t of Lord Vikount.Meiv
On the original question and Athendment,having
been put from the-Chair, •
Mr.' LEY C ESTEE' took that opportunity', of of-
fering a few words to the House>in explanation, as
.shortly as possible; of the grounds on • which-: he..
felt he should discharge his, duty
.conseientioqaly,
both to Lord Melville. 'and the,Public, in giving a
negative to the MotiOn. 'Sat. before he should,
come to istate these • grounds he begged to Say a:
few words on a subjea, tAat• was only'collateral to
the question in debate, namely/ what the Ho-
neurable Genilentan Who 'had brought forward the
Motion had slid with resped to Mr. Wilson: That,.
,Henottrable Gentleman had fairly and candidly
mitted 'that he understood -Mr. Wilson to be a very
Meritorious Officer,. and when he had appeared as a'
witness before the Committee, to have behaved him-
self in a very pro Per and becoming manner. In this
statement he concurred, as 'he was sure every Mem-
ber of the- Committee would.. But then the Hon.
Gentleman had-stated, that the Right Hon. 'G.Sixtle-f,
man below him (Mr. 'Canning) .ought 'to have dis-
Missed; Mr. Wilson from hiS office,. and. in-this he
differed. from that Honourable Gentleman. ..The
Ho* Member here offered soute. observations to
'shew that Mr: Wilson had • not gted criminally,
.and ought not to have been dismissed from. his
:situation. Having stated so much as to the calla--
teral point, he came to the main question. If the
present were an Original proceeding against Lord
Melville, he should not give his negative to the Mo-
tion of, the Honourable 'Grentleman,, because the
facts before the HOUse_ were not satiSfii6torily ac-
counted for, and he thought' inquiry. was necessary.
But from his professional habits he, was not dis-
posed either tothink a man guilty, or to suppose 110
guilty, till he should be proved to be so, or have a full
:•opportunity of justifying himself against the. charges
made against him on mfair trial. Whatever Might
have been his opinion with respeCt to the presentiviaz •
tion, if it had been an original proceeding, the
question had now taken a different turn: The ques4
tion now was, Whether an ithpeadhment, according
to the. Motion, or a Criminal Prosecution; according
to the Amendment of his Hon. and Learned ..Friend

(Mr. Bond), should be adopted.? and here it WO to
be considered what proceedings had already taken<
place... On the Bth of April Resolutions of Censure
had been passed on• the conclua of the Noble Lord.
On that occasion he had been discharging his dnty:
in a' different Place,'• and. had not; 'heard - what had
been urged to indace the House to adopt ',these Re—
solutions. ..He had no doubt that something .con,
cliasive, Must have been Ibrottght forvard on the
oceasion,.but for liis part: he couliVnbt find any thing
that would justify the.proCeedings that had been
taken.. Lord Alelville,had been charged with With-
-drawing the Publie, Money from t he 'Bank fur the
purruses- of private etuolnmetA; but Lord Melvilte
had stated.the•very: reyerse to. be the cae; lie had
stated, that -it had been drawn -only for the expe.
diency. of the Public Service: Rom all -that hat!
passed,. her had not observed any thing tenditg to'
criminate Lord -Melville on that Dead.. The Noble
Lord had- afteriardA been struck out of the List of
Councillors .And on the .29th of April tin order

was made direeting, the Attorney General tO• 'com-
mence a Civil, Suit against his Lordship. Two quel-
tions had arisen on. that occasion; first, whether .a
Civil Suit should be commences : against hint; and
next, :whether a Criminal` Prosecution. shoed& be
instituted; • and though Many differentepinions pre
vailed on the subjea; which' were fleatietitig and
changing, yet at length the .Civil Suit for.the reco-
eery, of the money was: preferred. It -Would be'
inconsistent 'for the -House to . order e ceiminal
Prosecution after having adopted the., other thode
bf,proceeding ; and herein it was painful to him
to differ from . his Bight Honourable and Learned
Friend (Mr. Bond), for Whose: opinien he eater 7
tallied the highest respeae and for Whose person he.
.-felt the. most shit ere and kealciusifriendship.. The
circumstances which led. to a' suilikiQU.tif participa-
tion on the part of LOrd Melville had been -before
the •House, iv that part of the evidence, of Mr.
Trotter where he • seye. that he -had been some-
T'o:;s in - 44vatletr 0,0(V, et'';e6;o6ol.-.. to Lord,
INlen -the :Cvil , Suit :lad been or-
dered, and therefore the 8(4.4 .Cennuittee, with
the instruaienS they had receoea, bed considered
thetriselees- as precluded: from „inquiring .'into .any
matters that, were the objets Of that Suit, • if
ani,of the witnesses that had been examined -before
them, had set outN,,ith stating that they Were abont
to giye -evidence touchinge sums advanced for the
private use of Lard Mese-Me, had no doubethat
.they would have been .stopped in the outset,—.e
That having- been the case, he contended that it
would be highly inconsisopt fer the. House to 'Stop
the Civil Suit, and institute a Criminal Prosecution
now. • He did not' mean to say ,'that d.case Might
" not be made out; sin which it would, be right to
-adopt. such a conrse; 'he insisted that -such a
case Should be first made out. His Learned Friend
had - stated that; new triatter had.
,beeti produced
to the House; and be wee-reedy, to admit that
if such matter as had not been' in the contem,
plation of the louse before Lel • been brought
to light, and:ofstiti-icient magnitude to, justify the
alteration of .their proceedings, tliat the inconsist-
ency- might be :properly incurred. This question
turned • upon the cases respytaing two or three
sums. As to. the 20,000leebat had been lent tri
Lord Melville by Mr,Trotter, there was notVklence
to prove that his Lordship knew the. fend from-
,which it had been procured. ' Neither. could he dis-
cover any trace of evidence Jo prove, as-stated :by
his.Learncd.Friend, that Lord .Mel Ville hid pat-ti-
cipated m the interest arising froin. Navy. or ENehe-.
quer 711111 s, or other stock purchase-4. and,he 5.1*
no reasen.tbr supposing that such participation ex-
isted. He' admitted that the 10,0001. which had
bebn, in the possession of Lord previous to,
1,78ei, and the other sum of 10,0001, or teeoool.
the- half of. the. ee,oool. ielvaticed,out of the,
Publia,Alaney, had been printit Atie unexplained..
Lut, for, the saki of argument, he siembisuppese,
what would be most disadvantageous to Lord Meel-.
ville,•that both "bad been applied .tci his private use,
-then .it. would , only. Jblioye that they had been
.advanced to him as a -temporaryeccompxiatione—
It had been argued by tbe-Noble Lord.oppositte(Lprd.
Henry Petty), that -these sums had never been re
paid.t--(hrearx.hear ! front that
had heen.protod he
.should admit that ;t - be
iufficient mist*, for the Hoese to depart from:, its:
.adopted proceeedinge; in order- to, institute a. Ciitni-e
nal -Prosecution. But,. he Wished that Noble Lord.
to bear in mind that the eharge,was not, suppqt:tt#.
by the evidence, and that it was tick asserted these,
sums, had not been repaid. •. It was stated in the Re-
port these sumo were repaid, but without interest.=
He could have wished that ,the Noble Lord had ex-
amined the evidence Were he contradicted that
:The Hon. Member here Called the attention of the:.
House to the answers of Mr. Trotter, in page 21, to.
two questions on • this subjeet, where he stated that,
these sums must have been paid to him, and tolim
as. Peymastee; and to his answer; page 24, that not
.only these SUMS, but , all other advances to Lord
Melville, since the year 1786, had since been re-:,
paid. -He asked, therefore, whether' in fairness 'or
candour,• any mind could suppoie Hutt thesesuina
t. had not been repaid? If it could be proved that
I. they had not been repaid, that would make put a
stronger case- than any that had .eet,beed made, ,be,
',cause it would prove an embeezhenent of the Publice
Money. There was" no proof. that,
lost a. single shilling. Oa the whole, therefore, it
appeared only, that in. the cotirse,offourteee or.six:-
teen years, Lord Melville had,beee accommodated
with sums to the amount of between eo and 30,0001.
AS to. the hoed of release, he thought
.there Witt;
nothing extraordinary in the clettse. 'Though such
a.clause was not usual needle precedents of bonds of
release, he- shpuld not have tluiughst it extraordinary
if such a clausewere presented to hii.pSelf in a release,
mid he should no hee4ateeto It eppeared
by the evidence, 'at one of tin Geptime,ll that had'
been examined, that covenants to give up voat,,hers
.were. frequent, amid the introduCtion of tins 'elawe
for burning .% (etchers had prise', from the partit,i
having been at. the distance of 400. ini.les from each
other when. the release had been execkited, and the
inconvenience of eransmittieg the veuelee; mutually
such a- diitancee If this clause had come to their
knowledge without any previonv:cquainwnee with
' the .. circumstance of; the (lest r:1-1:oo. of vouchers
it would never have given rise to anv un'favourable
suspicions. Ail this, therefore, had be:.tu known
previous to the Civil Suit, and it wouldtherefore be
Inconsistent to alter the cent-se of preceeding. He
would 'ask, whether twe Processes could be insti,
tuted without subje&ing the party, to a dangle pu-
nishment ? If they could not institute the Crime...
nal Prosecution without interfering with the Civil
Process', they ought • ,eot to prosecute at all. The,
Noble Lord had, been a!,readv punished by this
sue-
,cessive.nneesenes. that lied been token with rc7.spe& td
hi4L: The Hell. Gentian:tit who !rid brolght.for-.
ward the ;Motion had titated, that the Noble Leas

and particularly because he felt the difficulty arA
embarrassment in• which the House was pi.}c::l. -
But whatever May be his feelings on the oceasion,
or his sense of theseemba'rrassments, they,should.all
give:way to the di&ates of
.duty, and for the cads.
of substantial- justiCe. He had -ceme dawn- to the
House yesterday with his mind discharged ft.= the
influence of what had passed .with aview.to attend
to what the &Ohre Lord had to urge in his defttrice;
and in the expe6lation that any thing that Was deubt-
7fitl. might be explained, and, any thing that was
Wanted might be supplied. e had . come to the
House, entertaining doul,)ts cont'ellaing
,the Motion
which Was to be. submitied to it. But Nvhaievei-
may have been the imprestott on his Mindin tba.t
instance, the speech of the.Nohle Lord hat!
ea him- that sorne fitrther'c'.riminal- PrOsecittion was
necessary I.?efore, the ends of justice Vi9tild be SatiS
fwd. The principles ts)a which the No ,le Lord had •
laid dowse, and. 1-)erti,•,,laci'..., nor'them„ were such
as to for F., , • :. be, said
that they had ,e 1 , in the COLie
Of the proeeedings ,!, le,l
m such a' State with rtisiie:.t :4ee,e.C. part
. that they could fw:iiifortnittion t ;
.'than his Lordship and thee:), when pe,Taii,:,.:(l to
.-..attend in that I I(}use ;, undt:r
cinothr it vyiis to i.:l‘ to b:zen
'that not:Withtitanling these •restriaions •he xvoald not
have omitted to"haie entered into a &fence. of his
conduc teniperately. so fir has his spc,ech been
,:from justifkatidti of his COrI4USt; or from IYrovine;
bar's!' the steps' «staled the Ffnuse had taken that it
'Strengthened tht charges iii affeain'„:;
sheuld not' go over th& whole of the arguments of
° the Noble Lord, bet:aese they.had b!en infinitely
-better raided by, st he. Honourable Gentleman. oppo- '
••site (1r: :Whitbread), anti because h.! should only
.injure that Honourable Gentleman's argnments.if
were to, attempt ta'''•repeat them. It would also be
• painful to' him to go throngl? the detail, for which'
'reason he should abstain almost altogether from the
''Censideration; But there were. one or, two tepics
on which ' he 'felt, it' indispenSibly' necessary for
ithn The Noble 'Lard, in his speech.,
:had acknOWledged,no criminality he 'had attempt-
ed to justify • his cantina, and stated that the Law
of the
,Land had not been Violated. In support of
this assertion he had' argued from the Statutes, and
from' the 'Cantina of Subsequent Tristirt3rs of the
Navy °and in particular of Lord HARROWBY . As
to tne argument founded on the provisions of the
;Sgtite, the ISroble Lord insisted .that the Statute'
Orilfrequired that the money should not drawn
'from. the ',Bank but for Naval Services, which re-
gulation ofthe 'Statute had not been violated, But •
vas it ta. be supposed, that' the legiSlAture cot LI in
such a° Stauite regulate the intinner in Which every
minute sum was to be drawn, or that having direaed
that the money was: not to be. drawn -but for Naval
Seiviees, it was intended that the money, -when
I,vasnot to he applied t any b:it Naval Sen.:
vice ? --,[lear, I; Or it he t-tu that
the.money sbould:be steted to have b.,en driven tier
Naval Seryiees, and the app!ie.tien of it to any
btt'et-ineh-rii
It had i lso been said t, 71);:e:rna:11!:,ill",14,14.eluf- •
Lbrd.,Harrowly, !::: Gle lent of, . '
. •
pra:ai.c6, and • .!..),,inited ,
had been in'otliee. •
thet the pr:'Ci !! , rev..:. i
body who knew I ••• •• • • •-•• , •
"health 4-,ct • •
when • ;•., • •:i
every NAY whit m. !,. • ' •.`• ,
that wiwn at. . ee.; of !lest': , L—
ted hint to 'di. • ; dt;ties
department coo.-
forrility with theia*,4itid.-vy-ith a rigid ar.tlie.rence to
letu r aid spirit of the ,Stattate. It wes'intneeei-
sary to argue t.trat the 4.16 t
,of Parliament Vv't4s•eled.r.
and imperative on than head:. - The nianiler whic:ll
•it had originated, the discwsioos that had pr::•! -Ated
It, and' the circturistances that had attenzted.
atament, all threwei light on its li-wolfing. The
great and :main objet of the Statute was, to pre-
Veet balances front .accAnnulating in the
of Stih.:aceothmtnti, and to Make the Kiel:. the only
Bankerr,t6 tie Public for the Navy Mency. 1k
remembered an .attempt that had been aide to
justify the, prtaice of making. private profit by,
i the use of such money on a former occasion, by

.4 reference to the Ipraatice of former'fireasnreraa.e.
But on this sulaieta two things: were to be eensider-
. atel : First, that the case had.been altered •when- the
sew proseribed the praCtiee a and neat, that the con-
, tinuanee of the praelice •was aggravated by'the cir-
eumstaracee with respect to taa Noble Lord under
which the laW had passed.. For what .purpose was
an adaitionel salary of 9,0061. given to the Noble
Lord, if not as a:compensation for his havieg been
&paved of the 'emelmneets arising froth the use of
the Public: Money isvdmitted that the Treasurer
was not to make profit by the Fublic Money, and is
• the-diatinatioe to be 'tolerated that what the law does •
not allow to the Treasurer of Nary, shall be
permitted to 'the Paymaster ? What is there in the
law that does not apply to either as well as to the
other? He was sure that the previsions of the law
Were equally clear as to bait. Whet the Noble Lord
weld have meant by stating he did not know of Mr.
Trotter's having derived any profit from. the use of
the Public Money, but by his, share of 'the interest
it bore When:lodged in Messrs. Coetts's, he could
not perceive. The Noble Lord seemed throughout
I great part of his speech to argue that Mr. Trot,,,
ter had' not 'derived any private profit in draw-
., 'nig the Money 'from 'the Bank; though here 'he
admitted it. He had Made a note on the circum-
stance at the time, but if he misunderstood the
Noble Lordate,avas glad to he set right. It appear-
ed to him, however, a narrow end weakedistirrelion
ethat had been put bet Ween the purposes for which
the money had been drawn; and the uses to which
it had been applied. The. Noble Lord had said,
'that if he had been asked a question direelly, as to
thaepoiat, he. could not have had any hesitation in
amwering it. The conclusien, therefore, was, that
Mr. Trotter had been permitted to draW money from '
•
the Beek, for the popose of applying it to the pur-
po:,:es'of private emolument, "He was sorry to. 'be
obliged to State it, ,but this was Pot satisfatory. to
him, nor could it be Soto any Pne who looked for
•substantial information. He could recellea but one •
1..«. t in Which the Noble Lord appeared to him to he
satislaaory, and that was his reason for keeping his
• place of '1 reasUrer of the Navy:in Consequence of its
h.tving been cotineated With the superietendance of
Indian aifl first -which that Nobles Lord had presided
over and regulated, whilst
,at the head 'of the Board
Controul, ie a Menace most honourable to
himself and beneficial to the Country and the Com-
, pang ; and. here he begged leave to bear testimony,
iu ytiStiee, to that 'Noble Lord, to' the purity. end •
integrity with which he had administered the affitirs
of the India Company during the whole time he.
presided oyes them; particularly in his appointments • ••
•to high andimportana OfficeS in that service. He had
an opportimity of being a'equainted with many such
appointments, where the Noble Lord knear nothing
orate person he appointed ,but from his integrity
and :ability.e He had heard one person (Lerd
Teignmouth), who had'been Governor-General of
India, by his :Loadship's appeintrirent, say, that
during the whole time of hiabeing inahat important
steam he had never been applied by his Lord-
ship for any one thing as. a 'matter of favour, whidh,
could have been irf the Smallest degree disagreeable to
`his feelings. With regard to the burning of the Papers,
'and., the Clause in the release for that: purpose, he ob-
:served, that many thought that a doubtfUl transac-
tion. • For his own part, if, as it had been put, by the
beeped Gentleman (Mr. Leycester), that stood by it'
self, and that they had not known of any destruc-:
tidn of papers, ho' thought. that it would not 'have
given to any snspicion. But he agreed with his
lon. Vitend ,(Mr. Bond) who had remarked
upon the coiacideirce of the time, and the destruc-
tibir of the papers; whilst the parties were at such a
distance from each other, that this was a doubtful
eireninstance. The Noble Lord in his letter to the
Comnaisiiioners had stated;that he was in the habit
of amusing himself occasionally with 'destroying
useless papers,—(4 Mud' cry of No, No ; 'on which•
thelion. Member consulted leis copy of the Report)
He had mist4en a word. The Noble Lord had stet-
. ed, that he eMployed hiMself in the occasional habit
• of destroying' useless papers. 'When 'these circuit-
stanceS were considered, it would be impossible to
diV,est one's mind,ot the suspicion of some unpeopei• •
ety. Bet the topic Itpon which he felt most sensibly,:
the article in his Lordship's speech which affeCted
lain latest forcibly was' that in which he spoke of the
to,cool. which Iteliad in his, possession when Mr.
'Trotter had been appointed Paymaster. Of the op-
plicatioe of this sum, he had daclared• that he *mild,
give no account to that House, or to any other e.body
'or individual. It Would have been surprising that
any inan,should tiatke, such a declaration, but it was
particularly astonishing in his Lordship, who was so'
welaiiceiratntea With business, stawell versed in 'his=
eery, So well skilled in the preCtice of the Galati--
t ateet, so we'll' informed on the gallica of legal
daineueeay, and so muCh in the habit of preparing
t (lc ma :s of ether's. • What did it amount
; but. :ivo\VJ of a principle,'which, if the Haase
vela; l eto reconase, would put an end to all' the
it. e,, of theVonstitution, and the most inva,
leavileges Of that lipase. It was the'same 'as'
i Ole N ,ie Lord were at once to , say be
feeetaa its the law '• I Will be superior to the Con-
' s'itW joie I will do that Whieli both prohibit, and
TIOL be aeeouutablc to any authority for the
t.y43pi's•i;."' When our Sovereign ascends the Throne
t .a.hikal he is entitled by.ltattaatary right, it is re-
cl,.;l-0.1. of to tike tut' oath that he will' govern
ea eding to the laves. ft is equally the, law that
;,eatey voted by Parlitinwra should be expend:.
, •i. a; the law; directs. The' Noble Lord had
and perhaps another 10,0001. for
hr• :-Missed to gut e any,slCrount.-: It was a
. ,iii the Constitution to sepeore that any gritty-
colitd arise- for which it-did not' point out a
ely. It was a ptineiple. of our happy, Coh:-
that which endeared 'it ntoSt to
(,:mhos;atic love end admiration; that it .wits
eeielble of i'Lfour and.secrecy on some bccasiona
opeuness alts publiCity iu others.. But the
a-e ale Lord- was prevented from any disclosure by
aederetions a public honour and private con-
v+ lice, When the Noble Lord had accepted of a
e•e in 1,13 Country, he
I must have entered into an
eition to discharge the dilate of it according to
.
Whet country, the priuciple he in this instance
r.e2ed might be accommodated to, he keew not ,
I.,ar, sure he was,, that it Was not c.ilettlated for the
leridimi of this Country. This breught to his Mind
en anecdote' 'of one of
_our , 6,,vit Princes, who was
unpt'incipled unfortuteite, James II.; no,
lee meant anotitta' that .was mere profligate -than

fortun ate, his, immediate. lai-edeceStor, Chailt 2 IL
Who, ,if he.had . the benefit' cif such a prineirte As
the Noble Lord, need not have ensployed any Chan-
.
cellor of the Exchequer, or resorted tO the extra-
ordinary means which fie found necessary to enable
him to supply; liis extravagancies. .It could not be
true that: such a secrecy was either essential to the
dignity. of the Government or the safety. of the
Ceentry. The anecdote he alluded to was one which
is recorded of the_ observation made by a Mr. Gour-
nay, cn an occasion of one of the extraordinary
means resorted to to extra& Money in the reign of
that profligate Monarch. His observation had been,
that a King of England, who governed by the Laws,
would be the greatest Sovereign on earth, but that
if he should not be the man of his People, 'he would
be :the Weakest. This had such an etre& on the
Monarch aStri put a stop to his eAfOrtions for a time.
But they shottld look to the consequences that
would result friam the principle of the NOble Lord,
the measure of public corruption, secret depravity;.
and undue influence, that it would give rise to.
The avowal of such tr principle - led one to think
that there was something dark and mysterious in
the transactions, that woUld not bear the light, and
- he 'should only add, 'that the simple declaration of it
was big with dangers- which might not be foreseen.;
The main question was, in his mind, whether Lord
Melville had not been already punished ? and
that would lead them t.O consider the nature' and
amount of leis Lordship's' crime. ,He had formerly
stated, that whether it Were donsiderest resPed,
to its, intrinsic turpitude,
.or its possible eonse.-
quences, it was: a crime cat thegreatestinagnande.,
With relpea to the circumstances that had attend.;
ed its commissioe, it appeared es wally 'indefensible.
- It had been committed by ono aegiutinted with the
laws 'and judicial .proceedings of the Country; it
had not been' committed in 'a hurry, nor through
passion, bUt had been persevered in for Many-years :
so.-that it \Vas, eharakt6rised by its intensity, if the
expression might he alk4ed, on one hand, and its
continuity on.the other. It had been tugedithat the
Noble' Lord.h had already sustained much punishment;
but it 'was his opinion, that the Striking him out of
the List of Privy Councillors was the only pu-
nishment Which' he' had suffered. The 'Resolu-
delis that the Hpuse had voted, pronouncing on his
coridai, unquestionably fumed no part. of his 'pu-
nishment, beCaitse they might very properly pre-
cede the Motion for' Impeachment. And if the Hon.
Member 'who bad brought forward-, this Motion
had followed up the Resolutions with a similar one,
it would hare been right for him to have taken the
sense of the House: on the Resolutions first, and then
on the queStiensof guilt. Under all the circumstances
Of the case, considering that such a crime bad been
committed, had been so elucidated, so justified, and
se defended,- lie Would rather that they should re,
scirleall that had 'been done, and allow Lerd Mel-
ville to be restored to all his former distinCtions,
than that, they. should stop, there, and not adopt
any, further Criminal' Presecetion for obtaiding the
purposes of substantial .jtistice. It bad been ats.
sued by the Learned Gentleman, that the' Criminal.
`Proiecution would be inconsistent with the regu-
larity of their proceedings ; but though there had
been a variety in the measures they had, adopt-
ed, yet that variety had arisen from the different
circumstances in Which at different times they
had been placed. When the Resqlutions, and
the vote for carrying them to the fOot of the
Throne, had been voted, the lights they then had
were sufficient to justify these proceedings. They
had also in view the Criminal Prosecution, and if hia
Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt) had intended, by ad-
vising the name of the Noble Lord to be struck
out of the List of Privy Couneillo-rs, 'to defeat the
criminal proceeding, he ought to have stated it to
the House, and given thefts a choice. In both these
cases they had a&ed according to 'the 'lights they
had, and in 'carrying up their sense of the condua
of the Noble Lord to the Throne,
,they had only
discharged a duty as aßranch of the Legislature.—
. But he could not' conceive that they by that lire-
, eluded themSeives froni adopting any further pro,
feedings. With regard' to the different mode's
of proceeding, he was inclined to adopt. the A.mthig-
Meat that had been proposed by. his Right
nourable and Learned' Friend (Mr. 'Bond). But
he thought that those who were agreed hi snb-
ltance, should not differ about the 'Manner of attain
ing, and he was therefore of Opinion-that hiS Right
Hon. Friend' would dO well not to press bin Amend,.
ment on the House, because it was desirable that
those who were agreed upon the end 'should not
appear to din-by about the' Means. 'He should, there-
fore, agree in the original Motion, though he Wi3
disposed to prefer. the Amendment. He, gladly
agreed with his Right Honourable Friend:in his
eulogiurns on the' administration of justice in this
'Country he also with, pleasure c„oneuri-ed with his'
penegyric on that mode of „trial which was one of
the most valuabre rights of the people' of this
Country, and rendered its Constitution the most en-
viable on' earth. He should hope that the Honour-
' able Gentlemen opposite .might be induced to adopt.
the Amenchnent ; but if they should persist in the
original_ Motion, 'he should be obliged to vote for
it. He begged pardon for trespaSsing at such length
on the House ; but could not sit down without
making one 'or two observations On the arguments
of the Learned Gentleman who. had preceded him
in the debate. . That fAximed Gentleman had said,
that if it had been
ttroved tha the suns of to,onel.'
had not been repai , lie should vote forfurther pro- ,
ceedings. It7appeared, therefere, that his difficulty
Was only a question of degree, and resolved itaehf
into expediency. If they thought that the punish-
' went already mitided was not adequate, they
ewere not precluded from adopting further proceed-
' ings. The Learned. Gentleman had insisted that
no loss.'had bloc n sustained by the Public, ;Edit 'there
was one loss which the Public had certainly' sufferNl,
in the additional salary of r:0001. that had been
granted to the Treasurer Of the Navy, as had,been
`stated by the 'Hon, Gentleman, (Mr. Whitbread), in
lieu of the profits derived from the use elthe,Public
Money. But this he should not dwell oh as.ati item
ref loss The great losa was not in' money ; it arose
from a cause much More important and deeper, Which.
struck at the root of rill those principles' which, by
being kept clear and uncontaminated, 'could alone
s"(t ire the Constitutiomagainit public corruption, and
prevcnt the atleaions of the people frcan.being alien-
ated 1.-om that Constitution which was so justly the
objeel of their admiration. He had but area remark
more te make : When Lord Melville allowed Mr,

Trotter to draw the Navy Money frem the Emit tor . i ' '
the purpose Of placing if at a, private Banker's to de:.
rive profit from a ramcipatio4 in the. interest of it,,
he ought naturally to have warned him against ha- !
zarding the Public Money by speculations in stock, ,
jobbing,; yet no such evidence has appeared in. the 1
statement of the Noble LordEsVirhen also the Noble '
Lord could, if the case had admitted of it, have
justified' his tonditel, and had oraitted• to do so, •he •• -
was justified in concluding that he could not. The
main question, therefore, for the Honse to ask them-
selves was, whether, as this Motion had been brought
forward, the punishment already inflicted was suf-•
ficient, or whether, without conniving at' the con-
dn& of Lord Melville, they could vote against
the nation ?, iHe had been doubtfql at first, but
after having heard the. Wence of his Lordship, he ,
felt that. he had no option. .He thought he under-
stood from the Learned Gentleman that they, might
come at a knowledge of further circumstances rela-
tive to the 10,0001. by the evidence •of Mr. Trotter,
and that alone was sufficient to justify further pro-
ceedings. If all persons in 'office who had the dis-
posal or care of Public Money were to imitate the
example of Lord Melville, by 'diverting the Pub-
lic Money to private -purposes, crimes -would 'be '
multiplied, and there-Would-be no end to the delin-
quency. As to the application of money to Secret
Services, he begged to remark, that only 40,0001. ,
were allowed annually for England, and that:sums
voted for Foreign Secret Service Money were to be
accounted for by the oath of The Secretary of State
that they had•been. expended. If such praetices as
formed the Charges • against • Lord 'Melville were
to be suffered to pass with impunity, it would be in
vain tb adopt or ena&. regulations for the security
of the Public Money ar the direetion'of PubliC Of- ,
flees. Lerd•Melville should account for the' sums of.
Public Money which lie received... The Learned
Member had said, that his' defence_ had.extennated
his guilt; but he was convinced, on the• contrary, •
that by it it had• been aggravated. ' -The Learned
Genticinan had "ilso;•Stated, that
,this was not a tide ..' .
for going into inquiries.;,,but 'it waste be considered,
that tfie necessity had been impOsed upon 'them by • _
those
.Who would not let them know ghat their guilt
Was. He dePended on the strength and resources
of the Empire for its ptote&ion, on. the auperierity
Of, our~ Navy, and the talent. of • our Forees ;' but
he depended more on the affeCtion ,and 'attach-
Meat of the People ,of the country, omAieir • leve
for the constitution, , and their 'loyalty to' their So-
vereign,' which would be ensured.more,effeCtuatly,
if' they could see that there
.Was- • no- impunity Or;
crimes coniniittedagainSt the Public, 'apd that their'
rights were respeCted, their liberties secured, and,
the laWs equally administered on the'eternal 'pritici
pies of sound policy and impartial juss.ice. ' .
Lord CASTLERE,4G4 felt himself peculiarly
called upon to state the grounds on which he must.
give his decided, negative.' to the Motion of the
Hon. Gentleman. He had :been: anxious • that the
question should be discussed by those whopossessed • :
great legal and constitutional krioWledge; but. hew-
Aver that knowledge belonged to his Hen. Friend -
who bad just sat down, he' was, he owned Sur,:.
prised at the rnede in Which he had treatOthegula.:
sect, to, the disenssien.pf which fie seemed to'hive
come for the first time, and of which he appeal:44i -,
have taken the most !antiquated view. He trdsted .
the period was now 'arrived when Aheluestion' k•tis
' fully Understood. When the. Honourable Gentle-
man opposite made his MOtion; lie Was by no meatus
aware whether be intended that the measure prci—
piled by him should be supplemental • to.- the 'Civil'
Suit instituted by, Order of the House, or whether:.
it 'was to be a substitute foi that *cm:ding.—
The explanation With Which that Hen: -Gentleman •
had followed the Speech•of his Hon. Friend behind
him (Mr. Bond), sheSVed that he meant the' lattet.
'ln this case the Civil 'Suit ought not only to be sus-
pended, but altogether abandoned. , On the position '
of his Hon. Friend, that if new Matter had been
laid before the House new steps ought tQ'be taken,
he was anxious to join ' issue with him, supposing.
that his Hon. Friend 'of course meant hew matter;
not merely nominally so, but substantial aggra-
vated matter; sufficient to arrest the' attention of
the House, and to ithluce it to adopt that pro-.
position, which, when the discussion took place.
on the relative advantages of a civil or' a criminal
proceeding, his Han.. -Friend had thought it right
to rejea. ,Up to the 'present moment every, step
taken by the House seemed clearly to indicate, that
theyfreliquiShedsall idea of Criminal Prosecution.
He was by no means desirous of tying the Hon.
Genleman opposite (Mr.' Fox),, down to ,thy .opi-
'niens he had delivered ; but certainly, on the
.seetind
night 'of the debate on this subjea, that Honourable
Gentleman had declared, that -if Lord Melville,
were removed froM His Majesty's Cinincils and
Presence, he
ant
consider all personal proceed.,
inks against hint as concluded, and that-there would:
then only remain to obtain•pecuniary justice for the
Country. But it' was not on authority however
-high and respedtable that he wished to rest theme,.
tits of the case, He agreed perfeStly with his Hon.
Friend who had.just detiveretylis sentiments, .that
the:House might come to certain Resolutions with
a View ffti a subsequent InipeachMent or Crimi-' ,
nal Prosecution ; but he put it to the Candour of
' the Honourable Gentleman who moved those Reso- '
lutions against lard Melville, whether or not he had
intimated
,any intention •Of this nature ? He had
not done so 3- ' lie . had • contented' himself with
dropping a hint that', he-would prosecute further in-
quiry into that part of the Tenth -Report in which,
as he said, the Chancellor of the Exchequer was im-
,plic-ated,' and that on 'a future day he would' propose
that a Civil Suit should be instituted against Lord
. Melville, for, the purpose of reeoVering, from him
any profits arising froth the use of the Public Money.
By his subsequent `Motion for an Address to His
• Majesty to remove Lord' 'Melville from 'his Presence
and Councils for ever, he evidently and: avowedly
looked fer one punishment, and lie would scarcely
violate ' the 'Constitution so grossly as at the same
time to have another in his view. The objeet of the
. Address was not confined to a removal pending tiny
criminal proeedingsagftillAt the Noble Lord. No, on
cool del iberatiati ~ after an in terval of three weeks front
thepaSsing of the Resolutions., the Hon. Gentleman
proposed that Motion, which was to dis Miss Lord
Melville from all places of trust and dignity for ever.
Nothing could be more clear than that at that, time
all idea of Criminal PrOsee.ution Was banished from
`the "Hon. entlernati's Mind.. Let us iiow.consider
time Civil Suit, and the - circumstances undo whieli

il‘e Se
le
,nriazititther on which ' . lea Cottuuitiee dad bassi Appointed. Was it
Po.i:iibie to imagine, that if the l'lonie kAI enter.
rtamed the trot distant conception of the proliabi.
ity of deriving trout- the researches off that Col'
rotund a :Criminal Proecutioa tbey would hart
)twou e xpedient
barred
the institution of a Civil Suit, and hare ,dc.
._the Corontittee from investigating those poinif
'Report "on- which Alone the etpe•
diency of such Criminal Prosecution could tOtt.."
frtuotiit(litldtef caonnytqemnititlaiiitlaioinporofctelfdiliiigou:gea
Lip to ,the appointment of that 'Committee, thete"
fore, it' was evident that nothing could tic furtliet
L°rd-,:-- A :now. ease niustthereture be-shrviii,'
IttillSant iltlll:NiP°blC.:
irrefragable-argumentsaicluoed, to incline thelioo ..,,
now to adopt that from which they so recently lb:
stained. Otherwise the option between a Civil t." ..-,
.riminal Prosecution was no longer in their possei;
s_l°ll. Wffire this principle not tO be adhered to, horo '
mel y ale 'would be treated ' in-a mmuvr to which:lever
had a British Subjeta:been betke &posed ; and. her
fate would-rentnin on record as a monninentot the
'l‘Niti'llnai:yisl.tactstialitsi)r. import and.valtle ? 'ln C°"'l
inconsistent Severity of Parliament. \Val illelttall
new- matter in the Report of the Selea Ccit,lL:Di
unrabileo(f;t64l;
this, part of the s-übject lie wished to establish 3
illr
that-of -which only
tindion material to an accurate judgment-
the
between the charge of profit obtained frig' t,.',,,e ,0
and
existed. .140 eatr- to
proved against Lord elo-•,,,c:0
the . House to recolleert the circtunstauces. ees!'ll,
them prior to the apoointment of .the C01.,m1,."
and those with which they had gUbequentlY7,i,j
acquainted. It was - ktiowu in thelorino 1;1
that considerable slims of the Public MulteY „,,i
for Naval SerVices had 'been appropriate:l to r 7;
Nay, the e tio
poses not-- Naval. 4 • linprcsFion v
stronger ' than ,it is now, for the 11"11', ,01.
-knew that, 00,0001. had been diverted in Ebt.'l',,,i
.ner, .but they did not -know thatchool. ort,it'io
!)ert.4PPlied in.-A way which di infinite cr','llif,
those concerned in' the opPlication; and YcL, ito
mg tiegAiAied.a
Pnweedin.gs itt that time, they are 11°`v ej 00
Lord
to accede to it, when the cireunistances.see so to
ttp tl!e
less flagrant ; itor was the I-lonSo ignorxit, 'it 4.3
proposition to enter into 110110, it
time he alluded to', that the Public Is,ll 0,0
been ..otintraWn by Trotter' from
6
Mel kflOSVled.re. he-flthoitoe
tlernan bad laid, much stress'o3. the relti,u:i the tZ3
Noble I. i
—Ort..to explain what: was Aorie vii, 1,..,,,...i0t
tititusaitd.pountls tor which he was in ativariTitel
'l.l4,l3lastealp 'Olll-otter, Lii Ir":':t-tiur...
it - tji"qCl4-14-c-/T., 9,ulc.t not explain that t,t0,11,14:11.10
must neeesiaruy. have been . one. fr'!111„ it 014
had .derived!personal advantage ;, bouttie It
occur to thi...l,fon.:Qedtleilullthai ace 13*/
in time like those throligh 'which We eloervio6
frl''eed iiionoi might be el4loyed. in ?(:„ritial, ,liie,lll
le iliscitvrore. 0-fAvliich, to-a single iiidtvw„.,4 4;1(.01
endang.or thiiTevand boasirstitletie. who D4i,‘ ;lig&
. ~;
~ i
.. .
gnplicit
,-, .
.ni,,,,cg , flitl.ihutf,ll%.lo,,? ,t,,,,,0;
cotaiaeis4 - trigl)o
• His'et-forr.',Friend had it:*ressed a dot o, - b,;t it'll'',
Iry fit); ii ad beeil evil- re.l)3l''' .he sois
-,c6tila 'examine tlie'. eVidenec of IY°ttgs 1_10.41
fina'tbst .4)olot :(conipletely ascertain'!" ~
.acion,P,
that not only that sum, but eveXY 611111 '3ll‘4',Aliff','"
,tO4A.IeJVII-vi h4A:. been runEtalY ".Tti, „ilick;
With regard, to the extent ortlie-ttat'i:is''speeies,'`
tht.Conetitution iots threttten'd f)y- t,ji'it,'.oo.6i'4'!
tr4ll4a6tioll; .11..:Lit be cciniiliel'od o'3! ..t„c'li Joel, I'
aPp.ly the Public' 11pney io. oi ' lid Imo 01 4111
-4, i-t.11Y.r411.1.1r, be expe&s. to' be rek)4 „lotlei;
le4atquater;:4 hotillenlist, Apse thP,", tii;it ItVi
the flotie surly need: be under no 4""itivite FYI
to Scc't,.,,le i'-‘ol'
Pert); fpr the-oTLirpoiecs, of ou'repuort-
,:citilarov ~,.
tliasun'lNdem:Ninidd°ltsbi:leleir°,l::y:erU°:ll:l.lB:Nitlh'thallir fsrieSt°431Perliti8i1::::1111):6:1:11illiiC11.11;;IttIS:::111::;Itl
all intents; a Confidential Servant of ti . Ltlu.,,iii3
had' wa, 44. w,
his own entolutuent,. but, of this 91,"'tet DOM t:,
been Supposed that this intOY
rode Atrwo
he described his apprehensions t° rat3 officieatki3
coining into the PayntastershiP "w,asi ton who
0•11,,
fittation : it Wllsi the laiigtuige t).l .`e'rvices, Oa l'is
advanCed public money jr.o pabiTl:e detrocil to
hi fearful-that the result 'lic I n sou, l'lL'i,,,o
himself- With regard to- the alter
i.,:oitar, be. j
employment- of which, fbr privar,a,`.ll.ll j0i11e,..710,
his aequaintance with 'Trotter! 1,4)..,01 „iotrilil,llo,
been charged, it was precisely the is". Nybar 040
indiarnent could possibly be fratue,c`..toe ? (1111' 'ijt
situation of Lord- Melville at that,t_i
~ goa the,
c, if.
*as part of. the balances of 11.!.. 0. ri:v the Ai,`,.."
part of his second; Treasiirershipt,tio)wea do tire',ol6:
Parliament did not apply. 1 e,'''',..„e ,ol), :'.i15...11,-,
ble Lord was 'bottod not to ci,.ei,..L`tit, no in,e'',svl
frOin{hose ixthinees,
,but lie ..,‘%,.?_7,CompOst°,oyii
strafilea.ti tile. Resolutioos a t'‘,..o of-,,,-411-.llt.ipti
•ACCOUrit,S,.'Or by .tile rereAt inCle`'.ii,,,,Bi,ies, 110 e, jr
keening alien 'where he c,b4P,:',,,01,,,, iii tit,,,
g
Atelv Ale lead
risk so dead to?l'c.
,;t- iii,,chator44, pr.
so willing to risk the slli!,?"'''',l'diie, have 110100,,
Ice had been represented', 1-, ',';'ill 0 j,*(is
~,,woolf.
;fled with keeping this 1 0,00.0:•%,,,..01.6.0i die '/Torl P'
: he tub rather have rctin.iea!l,,etliellotllol).t.tri.;tire poir
amaanting,to 56;0001. ? /101 l fliTPti.C: f:IY. ill,
loived himself.tO ni:ike ii.e-,, .
inived in .to,:free 0
lie money, 'or, if he loci -o'. doing,. ill tv that t,'
‘yhich he Ad. been accd of,. i rd 9 il:000.
0, lb . 0;9 ~.
of suo
.- huejuos. by Pistil
would havo,borrir,veil iron) liirt.,..'he'r,.if it,ii...!li:lol! .
With TrPtter Woi-c! ,Ait:h.as Ili- t hr slu'ul ;roiorlto
on interest ? AVould.he'll':!,,, ?)een,tle3cr,ti". 1,',0,1 o',
felt entitled 'to demand t°"4,o,ltcotino toll 1
wants ?• ft ..vvas far from Illitteti a l'"jc.l o'l'4°,
Lord Melville had not pat.°. "tic opilli01.:. oltiCe'
considerable misioanageolen„ co bet%veell:ooe r.),-,,•
law, or that he had 110:'., iiit to ~o;i:.t ittil'i;,2.l3,!;
but there "as a wide differ en : ,ii.;,trorrait,
~.,a tpit,
t rte -ordiculP 'A t'''
dal, and a tielinouenc)' of
.aii. With r,,N0i'1.,4
tion - of irregular nut )hot 'oe wait s
t.,..1 ,„,3 it
nature that could attach to 1_1.,`„,i Print,
011
11411 t '4 I.i'll 0,
money drawn from the o" 310 be t,h,..a.,0iti?.d,.
was a fair objea of jeal°"3)::etain the'('‘ Atte. l'L,"; ,j 1
Procedure necesary to agellis, fito3o9,l:i'listionti
that Fend. ; But slreirj,*as.,,-,;, imil Liv 4, qiiv
A tbilt , oil' i
versed As he war 4 in the cootcii,-. o,ooe, ic4o.
the coti`titi3r, Niratild -.l:lOttnee' of ti4ioct, 9-400
Court could tate eog,joiii.,,o„o-ty, ‘‘''►•,1 i-,61.1 1 :3,
was proved to be Poblie. $ ; rikteenct'io-I, .itt`ii,i,!:
be done lv a Civil 5t?1..1.",e, of fil-151?,1,,d!;(4' ;00;
I,)e. argued upon a- a rtla!„%:,111405 I
llio 011,,
established by , proof. ii.roces t114,' ;111,0V
Ve.l3, under other circlinv _,, t fie
' I Stlbpicioll atTlSeit T 3 44:00°