The Sun.
London, England, 1851-04-12 00:00:00

Lord J. RUSSELL aids be rore the debate closed he
was anxious to toll the seer t eu of iho HouFe to the
delusien which he thought had then practised upon the
House and upon a great portion of the country by the
repeated mod( ns of a similar nature which they had
been called upon to discuss. The present motion. appe-
rently sho smallest of the sort, merely proposed, instead
of going into Commitice to cored ler the question of the
repeal of the window-tax, that in any reiiof to be granttd
by the remission or adjustment of taxation, due regard
should be paid to the distressed condition of
.the
owners and occupiers of land in the United Kings
dom. Well, as if the Honourable Member for Buck-
iughamehire said, the window-tax was to be repealed,
and the Honourable Gentleman assented to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer's proposition upon that subject,
looking at the amount of surplus, it was quite clear that
no effectual relief could be given by the remainder of
that surplus to the owners and occupiers of land.--•
(Cheers.) Then, if the question were taken as a general
question, admitting what the lion. Gentleman had al-
leged as to the importance and the number of the landed
interest in this country, he should say that, if it were
possible to make any considerable remission of taxation,
Parliament could not remit the duties upon windows,
upon tea, or soap, or on any other of the chief articles of
taxation, without at the same time giving largo relief to
the owners and occupiers of land. So be should say to
them upon this subject as upon all subjects which af-
fected the landed interest, let them not look for any ape-
teal legislation in their behalf—let them not look for a'
measure which would either fix a particular price for
corn, or to give them special exemptions from taxation,
but look rather to measures of relief which, along with
themselves, would affect the other classes of the commu-
nity; for if the prosperity of the community were secured
they might depend upon it that that great and important
interest would prosper along with the rest of the Queen's
subjects.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Somerset.
shire said that be had heard no one declare in the course
of this debate—he certainly had not heard from the
Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire—that protection
was involved in this motion. And the Hon. Member
for Manchester (Mr. Bright) said he believed that the
Honourable Member for Buckinghamshire had no ia-
tention to restore the duties upon corn. Well, but if
that were the case, why was it, when the simple-
minded yeomen and farmers who desired the restora-
tion of protection went to the Honourable Gentleman
and other leaders of the patty opposite, and said to
them, " You are continually bringing forward motions
withvespect to local taxation ; but why do you not
at once ask Parliament to give us protection ? "—how
was it that the invariable answer was, "Although that
is not the direct, it is the indirect object of our motion ;
and you will find that if ever these motions are carried,
the restoration of protection will follow."—(Hear, hear.)
Here, then, he contended, was a delusion practised both
upon the House of Commons and upon that portion of
the community which still looked to the restoration of
protection, and the re-imposition of duties upon corn.--
(Cheers.) Every one knew by the test of the motion
of the lion. Member for Gloucestershire (Mr. Grant-
ley Berkeley) last year, that if a direct motion for the
imposition of a duty upon corn were introduced in this
House, it would be, as it had been on that occasion, re-
jected by a large majority, yet the debates and divisions
upon such motions as the one now before the House
were exhibited to the farmers as a test of the opinion of
the British House of Commons. Ho said, then, that it
would be more fair and honourable if, as the Honourable
Member for Oxford had proposed, they said, " There are
certain duties which affect us, the landed interest; give
us relief with respect to these duties, and you shall not
again hear a word about protection from us, and that
great source of quarrel and dissension will for ever be
dried up." Either let them say that,'or say fairly, We
stand boldly upon the question of protection. If protec-
tion is restored, we succeed; if protection is denied, we
fail." —(Loud cheers.) Let them place the matter upon
fair grounds like that. Let them not adopt these delu-
sive motions, which were unbecoming a great party in
the State, but put the issue fairly and openly before the
country at once.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL warmly condemned the rule
of action—ho could not call it a principle or policy—
which the Hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. J. Reynolds)
had thought it his duty, before an assembly of British
gentlemen, unblushingly to avow—that whatever course
the Government might take, and whetherht was in accord-
ance with his own principles or not, he should vote against
them.—(Laughter and cheers.) Let the Irish Roman
Catholic Members recollect that nine out of ten of those
lion. Ghntlemen who nu this side of the water had sup-
ported them in their resistance to the Ecclesiastical
Titles Assumption Bill opposed the motion of,Mr. Disra-
eli to-night because they would not stultify themselves—
because they were in favour of an adherence to principle,
and would not be dragged through the mire of those who
were ready, per fits et nefas, to oppose the Government.
—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") He now rose merely to
state that in the early part of the evening he was rather
in doubt how ho should vote to-night; but he owned that
he had been converted.—(Laughter.) His mind was
now settled. The speech of the Hon. Member for Dub-
lin had settled it.—(Oh, oh, and laughter.) And he
trusted the Members from Ireland would oppose the mo-
tion of the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire, which
was meant simply to hoodwink the British public, and
to excite expectations amongst the agriculturists which
must surely be disappointed.—(Hear, hear, and Oh, oh.)
Mr. KEOGH (amidst crieslof " Divide" and constant
interruptions) appealed to the House whether it lay with
the lion. Member for Kerry to talk of Members of this
House being "dragged through the mire." —(Laughter
and cries of " Oh.") The „lion. Member shrugged his
shoulders at the observation. He (Mr. Keogh) would
not say that he enjoyed the " Pleasures of Hope"—(A
laugh)—but surely he might be permitted to indulge the
" Pleasures of Memory"—(Laughter)—and his memory,
according to the Honourable Member himself, did not
require that he should go so far back as to pain the
recollection, for the Honourable Member had told the
House that he had come down this evening intending to
vote one way, and that he had determined on voting
another. —(" No, no," from Mr. M. J. O'Connell.)
Well, the lion. Member came down with a saving doubt
in his mind respecting the vote ho should give,
although in substance this identical question was
discussed some six or seven weeks ago in the
House.—(" Oh, oh," " Question," "Divide," and other
marks of impatience.) The Hon. Member took a broad
prospective view of all parties, and the result was that he
who had come dawn in doubt was now not only per-
fectly satisfied in his own mind as to the vote he should
give, but took upon himself to lecture those gentlemen
who had not come down in doubt, but were quite satis-
fied in their minds as to the propriety of the vote they
were about to give. He (Mr. Keogh) intended to record
his vote in favour cf the motion of the Hon. Member
for Buckinghamshire, and was ready to defend that vote.
A few nights ago he went into the same lobby with the '
Hon. Member for Kerry in support of the motion of the
Hon. Member for Waterford (Sir H. W. Barron), who
proposed that the House should go into Committee to
consider the distressed state of the peoplo of Ireland.
And what was the motion of Mr. Disraeli but that, in any
remission of taxation that might be made, due regard
should be paid to the distressed condition of the owners_
distress was existing it was impossible to deny,.
and occupiers of land in the United Kingdom? and that
they found it admitted in the Qneen
:shSpheis reasonse for
Sir THOMAS ACLAND,
eivinHon. Member for
of the
thGeovernment had ad-
mitteddis-
tress,suffßeurithitghpfrreomwasasupporting the amendment
Buckinghamshire, said the
made by the friends of
that the agrictueldtuarlal
yet they resisted
that class to obtain inquiry
and
class which
union amongst the egricultur foundedwas founded
enladssrewliaest
taligerenwatasno union of
agricultural class
iu principle, and which, beingai in principle,
principle.
the efforts and designs
,cohreseELL remembered the time when the
owfoau
aesyseu
among
allys
t succeedwo m
Hon. Member (Mr. Keogh) was not so iedhot a Liberal
Mr. J. 0
as be now professed to. The lion. Member for Dublin
Reynolds) had thrown out two challenges. lie
hhd that were it not for free-trade the rates for the sup-
port of the poor in Ireland would have lean double what
they wore. He doeied that. lie had before been cen-
sured for a vote which ho had given in that House. but
he teL that ho would always be in a condition to defend
his
vote. With regerd to the amendment now before
the II )use if
, :anything could iuduce him to vote for that
atnendeuent it would be the speech of the Hon. Member
for Buckinghamshire.
Mr. 11. GRATTAN did not rise to lecture the House,
nor to receive " lectures," which, as far as he was con-
certed, passed unheeded as " the idle wind." But feel-
ing that the legislation of this House had ruined Ireland,
and brought death and desolation on her people,
hun-
dreds and thousands of whom, too, had been driven
by
it to fly to America, he should vote for the amendment
of the lion. Member for Buckinghamshire.
The House then divided, when there appooroeu3
For going into Committee... • • :4°
250
For Mr. Disraeli's motion • • 13
blejority for the Government
This announcement was received with loud cheers by
the Opposition.
The motion for going Coma:late was then agreed
into
i
to, and the House went into Committee.
Lo
Mr. DISRAELI asked the Noble
n Mondar what business
he proposed to proceed with
°d
to Y.9
Lord J. RUSSELL Pr°P°se take the resolution in
respect to the window
duties and house-tax, then to pro-
ceed with the coffee and timber-those s, and then to take
the second reading of the inconee.tax.
Mr.
h EwEN asked whether it was the Noble Lord's
intention to go on with a Coca na.ttee of Supply before
Easter. SSELL said
Lord J. Rlj he did intend to propose the
Committee of Supply on Monday, but he was afraid the
state of business would not permit him to do so.
Mr. DISRAELI hoped the Noble Lord would not
ask the Rouse to read the income-tax a second time on
Monday.
Sir B. HALL thought that the Noble Lord should
give them an opportunity of discussing the principle of
the house-tax. He proposed taking the sense of the
House upon it.
Mr. HUME said that the simple question to be con-
sidered would be whether they would have the house-
tax or the window duties.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the proposal was to proceed with the window-tax, whichl :
was a house-tax assessed in a particular way.lt
tax.He
"a
The
propose to alter the mode of assessinga
Hon. Baronet might, no doubt, it he pleased, propose to
repeal both one and the other.
Mr. HUME asked whether the motion of his Hon.
Friend near him was not virtually one to continue the
window duties?
Mr. SPOONER said, it was too late to consider
these matters then.
130 would, therefore, move that the
Chairman report progress.
.
After a few words from H. GRATTAN and Sir B.
HALL,
Lord J. RUSS-
ELL said he had hoped that the
Committee would have assented to this resolution. As,
, however, it appeared that some Hon. Gentlemen were
I determined to stop the business, then he could not help it.