The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

certificate wag to be backed by some person who
Toni/ arl,l hie ~f ti
the representation which he made. Then there was the
evidence of Mr. Ford, by which it appeared that this re-
gulation was de fact) a perfect humbug.—(Laughter.)
Re trusted that the time was not far distant
when the tithe rent-charge in Ireland would
be made redeemable by legislative enactment,
being convinced tbat it would be productive of
the best effects. It would relieve many scruples in
he Encumbered Eitit,t,a Courts, especially among
Quakers, English as well:as Irish. It was argued that if his
(Mr. Sadleir's) proposition was adopted soma ministers of
the Established Church in Ireland would be left without any
income. But the answer to that objection was, that the
revenues of that Church were not equally divided among the
working clergy. Before the poor-law, however, the working
clergy, on 150/. a year, had, in many cases, to keep up large
mansions, the income of the parish going to swell the funds
of some choral society in Dublin. At all events, if the in-
come of the working clergy was insufficient, a competence
ought to be secured to them. The ecclesiastical anomalies
that prevailed in Ireland were a disgrace to the legislation
of the United Kingdom; but of all countries under the sun,
Ireland was, perhaps, the only one where an acknowledged
evil, or wrong, as regarded tithe rent-charge, should be
suffered—recovering as it was from a succession of famines,
and the landlords being, for the most part, Protestants.
He therefore conceived that he was justified in calling on the
House to adopt the resolution he should propose. The Hon.
Gentleman then moved the resolution.

Sir G. GREY said the question was one of great com-
plexity, involving the construction of many Acts of Parlia-
ment, and therefore the House could not fairly pledge itself
to any course without first having before it the substance of
any Bill that might be brought forward with a view to
amend the existing law. The Hon. Gentleman had im-
ported many extraneous topics into his argument, which
had no reference to the term of his resolutions, and this was
an additional reason why the House should refuse to pledge
itself to any particular course without previously having the
details of any proposed Bill before it. He was not prepared
to say that after an examination of the various Acts bearing
on the subject, if it should appear there were no insuperable
objections to the assimilation of the tithe-rent charge sys-
tem in England and Ireland, there would be any disposition
to pass over the subject on the part of Government. If the
Hon. Gentleman would move for leave to bring in a Bill on
the subject, he would say that the subject should have full
and fair attention. But again he repeated it would be in-
convenient to pledge the House to any particular course;
such as would be the case if it assented to the motion just
submitted.

Mr. HAMILTON considered, if the proposition were
carried, it would not materially affect the present occupiers
of land in Ireland. The landowners would be very un-
.‘ illing to gain any right that would give them an undue
advantage. The Honourable Member entered into details
to show that the tithe composition settlement which took
place in England and Ireland was not similar; for, in the
first instance, the tithe-owner got the full amount of his
tithe, deducting the expenses of collection ; whereas the
Irish tithe-owner had to submit to a reduction of 25 per
cent., which went into the pockets of the landowner. It
would be unjust, lie considered, to interfere with the set-
tlement which had been arrived at, by any new legislation,
without taking the different circumstances connected
with the composition in Ireland and England into con-
sideration. He did not deny that improvement could be
effected in the existing system, but he thought that a sep-
tennial ought to be substituted for an annual adjustment of
tithe-rent. He hoped his Hon. Friend would withdraw his
resolution.
Mr. FRENCH would do nothing to promote the objects
of his Honourable Friend, and he should be sorry to sup-
port any measure or motion that would have the effect of
perpetuating the mischiefs of the Encumbered Estates
Act. He hoped his Hon. Friend would turn the question
over in his mind, with the view of founding a Bill on his
experience, because he believed there was no indisposition on
the part of the Government or the House to legislate on the
question.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD considered the existing difficulties in
taking the averages in order to determine the amount of
charge were so great, as practically to render the previous
legislation on the subject abortive. He recommended his
Hon. Friend to accept the proposition made by his Right
Hon. Friend.
Mr. H. GRATTAN advocated a septennial in preference
to an annual average, as mere equitable to all parties. His
Hon. Friend had objected to the operation of the Encumbered
Estates Bill He believed that the general opinion was, that
the Encumbered Estates Bill had operated as a robbery.—
(Ohl) He had read in the papers only the other day, that
an estate having a rental of 3801. a year conld only gain a
bidding of 1,500/.
Mr. SADLEIR would not occupy any further time this ses-
sion in discussing the question. He had given notice at an
early period of the session to move for leave to bring in a Bill
on the subject, but he had been remonstrated with by many
Hon. Members for attempting to deal with a subject so large
that Government only ought to undertake it, and this
had induced him to give up his intention and to submit
his motion and his reasons in their present form. But since
he had received an intimation from Government that a Bill
if introduced by him would not meet with Government
opposition, and as he hoped that Government was disposed
to recognise the principle for which he contended, although
the task of introducing a measure of so much importance
was usually distasteful and objectionable to a private Member,
be would, on the encouragement held out, give his attention
to the question, with the view of introducing a measure on
the subject at an early period. With that understanding he
would withdraw his motion.
Sir H. W. BARRON hoped Government would take up
the matter, as it was not, or ought not to be, a party
question, and Government were, therefore, bound to effect
practical good whenever they had an opportunity. The
question was not one of such immense difficulty as that
it could not be grappled with, even by the present Go-
vernment. _