The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-06 00:00:00

I PP _ 1

Pliattirti,Tlakat' Primed and loaded, were marched upon themoe;
toCt if th - '''itliers bad no Terence for firing, in consequence
,1111r1,,,,d, lerecilieselcoe.alble c.oeductPof the people, till a policeman i
ed ad- 01i0,,d
thsies..threw a stone at a soldier.' The soldier
[fear.) Wore to tiiPfohcernan, and seized. him. Seven witnesses
orbing with great" n,. set of his throwing the atone ; yet it was
enDuntrY a 614
aa ' lficulty that any Magistra'e could be found
the ' gagrpd t}7.4,.l';ant for his committal ,• and. the Grand Jury
ions t° la It4ted ' 'nil of indictment. This is the justice
of
}ILA_
inuotry 'tit ta Ireland. To show the character . Y'
'd
itadt- me eril'iana will mention their conduct with respect to
• tUlarly to b°, dY (the police), who are so obnoxious, Psa,
_____i
the he tt ~,, tRe lower classes of the Irish ; and to . now:
'd ' e"Jant ebb' i '
too often receive, 1
4911 rnent: - ica my countrymen
no tap 'an the reward of their kindness. The police-
d 0") ;e ii t(4l,thelter i cottage, and appealed to the.
oheclted lir'', rotisibt): of it% inronaPeas.pooTr They received him—they took
! ) It 01,, 'n)--they mit him in bed—his pursuers inquired
ieerabr;) .111. -a
e`tillttia.igee.....t they* deied him—theya came a second,
Ili/1g to le,,nan
wribenirne--the same
on his
the
.ofaii, 4notherTpluietyhail,oke the
the danger
policewasoovaeimr,loal,nadod
bey h a:ceiling
hi
irtiliarty
hoe
T laid hold of, and hancicuffm
accused them
in
,:h, They handeuffe(ly the wife, hut she wasasa
done
rd. o Ai0,41 ; she Was no Mrs. Deacle. Less wi tal an, r: beaele, and all England (and very properly),_
; ° with it
'" .on in inland The least attempt at resistance topp ea-
'l' ret to
is but the signal Or blood?force is called for. What is the cry,
.
for another slaughter,buta and
h dding
441 a lf Yon Want to send more soldiers to Ireland
)100Jiaht to give more opportunities for
• ~our eu
I,!solee
aoid es of wilful.
vuavernrn 'era and policemen. I say his
Majesty's
murder have been found
• s. Yes.
, s eu,ner:t are the cause of these
It ii tn li 8 Majesty's Government ofertihmee slaughter
*h a-• ot th
th the weapons with
tht h"vert..4",atry they it was that put arms into
-leli h - ese men, id e'
, _ t
eit .

ire the .eereta • !let' and gave lens . anon-.
Lord east hao' "I's were slaughtered. The Right Hon.
at the tust'''red it already conquered Ireland by force ;he has
would of
17 tile b with foot and horse and marines ; he has
hear, peeaieracks into stores for tithed articles, in spite
lajesty's bent View of Ireland. By force he has been suc-
tion 01 joY* Why then talk of adding to the force in
The N,,,,-!attitin agitation the cause of the crimes which I
ieech aßit
tie°, or is it the conduct of the Government?
which or thq to 44 cm the cause of the Whiteboys, which are
igilance Lam, Pet:ieve been committed by the lowest and poorest
atention liiy"akon • It has been proved that these outrages
and Btahl 4,,.:Tri" with any political measure whatever.
„ed bY Whit;!) sq.' defy the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
tore?-•-• rag,. thoreether there ever was a time of agitation in
Scotland Ttd ile was not a cessation of Whiteboy out-
ht eye° the e ts, Honourable and Learned Member here
3? Hose pee
friends which Ireland possessed among
iecrettrY niod eIY. 'bin a remark which we did not catch
and it .:.4o°at,,,Lie then continued : There was no pe-
t in 8 Peri,PNee4 the present, in which Whiteboyism was
there of q,°tilitat't than in 1821 and 1822. Was that a
r a pee: cbint'tql, ti4o ? On the contrary, upon the accession
sear,) of ltdki as well from his professions on other oc-
Euglieb to
4:404 Promises of doing something for the relief
d under ettt ,ring his visit to that country, we determined
t under 'way ^table should see what would he done for us
f things' Pitt itie^A• Y' And agitation ceased entirely for about
ne show ortioilLttVet during this time the Insurrection Act was
nd that Calhaiiihta in consequence of the Whitetioy outrages in
Ireland. lets, .t titeleven counties ; and at the time when the
Ati4 elation was first formed eighteen counties
en, ^ 'tate •
was the caton,l'itlt: of disturbance ; before the Catholic Associ-
nt ,I‘to4'l,loheein in full agitation eighteen months every
blew' 'ng st" e,,a4d was exempt from its operation. Now
le threw ento"tP°ll those who are such advocates for shoot-
is caw astifo°stto rYtnen to contradict that fact. I call upon
,f polieY be tirtsht'°t for that circumstance lam speaking of,
Diy one Ap ti.!etti IPPy Ireland. I ask why an Irishman is to
to yat„"frlistatiliitrently from Englishmen or Scotchmen ?
hear.) Nei 'a not that silly thoughtless creature which
if of the rita ke Bud Your plays have taught you to consider
ord tvatoiltf L 5 shrewd and sensible. Seven ventu-
re Peet oith,,,i,,PPresaion have taught the nation to
re„ were niesol' iittn,na of the times, and when they see any pros-
iction 'Leit 4ing legal redress, they give up all other
but 110 elltra ono. Which they at other times seek to better
he co"' ItOd h 1 4rittloo, This is the cause why Whiteboy
_(Hear.) retet/rimsl agitation never exist together. When Ire-
-(Heer4 'aye no grievances left, then Whiteboy out-
-, hear./ tin:it:l,44,e, and agitation will cease. What new
pr 00,,t4'aetti 'e for sending force to Ireland ? Has not every
befli°,l tit'rgibeen already put down by bullets and bay-
tat t4it,r,,N "Ps Ireland is not yet sufficiently oppressed.
so 041- e'rltains 12,300 souls, of which 75 are Pro-
of crirOe ;
~ rest', .t no grievance that twelve thousand two
hat Ye- Odd Catholics should pay tithes for the sup-
, it to 1,1,1.4 !,h!elerCy of these 75 Protestants? The Members
entleoll I a‘ti,satY's Government may call me agitator, and
charge; talat, to my agitation the increase of crime, which
he pe°P.t (trod kik They forget that no Government ever agi
:all far ,f 'l•tstt ach as they have done. The increase of crime
hailed ° it 0 att,tesult of agitation but crime is the consequence
been app nf our gri
l
evances, and agitation also as
conteu'rof What care I for the sneers or taunts of
cause ate -r-ord
is mite atit,ttesi, (Ormelie)? If Ireland continues to have
it I
say it P"^ think myself bound to agitate, and I will
3t., :Ott, a third Algerine Act should be passed. If you
gs
hto , , ,
instead tits -nen, then indeed, and then only, you put an
had the t"fait4ttajiaa!i,tdti°n ; but if you should attempt it, it will
of the Ptett lti, u° many a long year before you will be able
itiatio° they,ttatigr,:lexecution. We contend for liberty, and to
be l,4tlw. :lea from those who seek our blood. The
ire to
aßllins,, at, benenuatanding the many calumnies with which
etary
oreticg Y%Npi„. assailed, are an honest, a moral, and a reli-
crease t° "t \v"lit` There is snore religion in Ireland tb,n in
only, bati hitch not excepting that of the Noble Lord. Even
canart °°Y out
r the onlf t tha, rages are no proof of any bad trait in the
sensation, 2 thjikt
_racter. My countrymen will never, in any
bor.) `ne Vtoa contrary to that character ; but I will present
r' !a IN,: appoe, such a catalogue of grievances as will justify
for It i 0 thN 'ling to them whether if these be continued,
:,
~
Istlre.
arks
git 44 h.._
Jord 417 not a right—is not bound to agitate. First,
bad done ...Let I;:hitt..these grievances, we have to complain of a ma-
who° 't 04' 140 ',fleeted by feeling or religion with the people.
it fore( 41. Palle, for a moment, that this were the case in
Ireland' f .g 4 )ho
00 w would Englishmen brook a magistracy of
one. Pie *et tlf E 1 dunconnected
the pe°- e „e, ith ng an had a gentry by
iba,,,toeo4 te,,otted" people, from whom all her magistrates
the alt) ; suppose the power of enforcing her laws to
letnd ht, Y
sppY renchinen, what indignation would not he
whets r.tesot,a,el,,,rc° would they be resisted ? It is true that
,teSL r °l°' AN II: lein,;';' Passed with a view to protect the poor in
,etoeg. sus° 'py ‘ret. 'ee on the part of magistrates, but these
.„isfr' ally 'hes -!urned so many forms. and been subject to so
e "" the bee ttle' 'bons
want, _ I. a that no action could possibly be success-
hi 00 'eel, "at h"ed against a magistrate by a poor man. I
er, G, aati lades-
Ir 0 you long in proving this. I have
ndignati° -"elt
„ in my argument by the Right Hon.
in;uriocer ti,:,o the opposite side. It was part of their
of.Jrne ,11,4%11,,Zet While in opposition ; they always promised
eel ; ever)
els'ing 111:44 m° he redressed when they came into power.
t° 'riti "cters went to Ireland, the last words the
fan'l iff -aed to
Lor 4 gnat °u
thhim were, " Attend particularly to the
napared c,k."eitt 44y me Magistracy." What was the result ? A
,•••atllolita. sty "gistrates were certainly struck off the list ;
:custorDea;
Ivo 0 l'ttikr p, Who Were dead were struck off; a great many
a d hntta,toetire struck off; and, lastly, a great many im-
af ?Olt
Ofll it, I°4. certainly were struck off; but this did
f tate Ohl h The improper persons—those who had
'' iasO • G,:tas'o-rt and others—wereslaeedily reinstated. They
riout' i i-ns4 pZal }-3-117,Le Castle. It appeared from the evidence
the thhta,l?t tle4e, that an excuse on another to
for
,8 frbro°,s 4411% I`)•'&l3Alagistracy was, that the period for renew-
voat seep, s,Nt,,,"•osit fl at hand, it would be better to have
tlnrr'ziethitl• Fe, at that time. In short, the Right Hon.
• thi°g
t it Dario th,'"ina!‘l'in,lteiand had done, during his administration,
all psrf.‘,
,11;
a„ Partiese had succeeded in making them
oi„,ht Jlov,f thelats
tats,t all of them concur in one thing—
``ostild oneate,,ty, their hatred towards him—they all join
s that joie Pt,,Nd Pritsei',has, probably, been sent to Ireland on
d ° a to'elit kavernP,lo as the Earl of Kildare, who, "as no
at dole°„; again4:l44 Of th u", was sent to govern Ireland." The
rill oy tep t the itop Magistrates in Petty Sessions gives them
Aaud, be/ each 051, poilUrnitY for every act of oppression exercised
tit to Prior ing,t,'Nt'lt 01 • Their deeds are not the acts of an in-
/0 liot, "et Nst, the Board—and they are sure to support
erns. „ ttthat
las of"; undr' 'rho 4 poor man bay no means of obtain-
tee, th, 15, ae timings may to some Members of this
avo rott a„
D. tee Pet . Pliear trivi l • but to those who are
oaf
• Isclit dtion . a '
witb Only t tlot, still or such laws they are matters of vital
• toll ° sh more so when we consider that the
his
0,4,1 n Petty tal, , ose
,anon ,e of ,Of v Magistrates has been extended, not
.01 04,, ens, 11, a,ters, hut to trying the titles of the
forV tier) 41::1511•14p thc.r• The Trespass Act has been made
otty • 001 "'at ictio'!dr4, Power. I may be told that the poor
:ice to e' a al,gi.'lipt,Plaß pouY application to an equitable jorisilic-
ye bee° °i° Pay th;tras,, '44 asseasion ; but I know a poor man who
s tbe hrlorjs t't iniootehitata,t n Proceeding. It is true the statute says
Eagli",-,ol' 4, Very Ike, tinf 14," try rights; but a poor man cannot
that )/• There 'ator, ev Ido not accuse all the Magistrates
"
1614- 0 ‘44, aPPoisZie 3i !,rni"a a majority of them ; but Ido accuse
ble !IPPoiete4 tipetd,very influential class among them.
ba..oe b here ,4eto iarY Magistrates in Ireland who are
es a3trit/ being !eo anti meet, and out of these Lord Anglesea
njoistr:riif's still t°
Catho,',o "t one of them was a Catholic.
!rable 'tt tioa? amt ne, wub-Inspetors of Police, only one
oc° roe,.ith such a Alagistracy, if suffered
°' °Of the lag of oat,h. ther
,01, cry t.'std e not ground enough for agita-
,er. the cry
avlsen.efertn°fl looked with anxiety to the first
Lo this ed parliament. Oh ! what will be
Otheff° crdeZd 301-la, brutal and bloody speech shall be read
an 0:
oy e"
01°,(i; tIbtniO,SELL rose and begged speak
to to
pldroi° that the words made use of by the

Honourable and Learned Member were disorderly, and
begeed that they might be taken down.
Mr. O'CONNELL—If the words I have used are die-
orderly, I am ready to disclaim the use of them.—(Hear.)
I will not persevere in doing anything which can give
any one an opportunity of taking advantage of me. I will
sink and humbly my voice, I will use lady-like words,

" With bated breath and whispering humbleness,"

I will siy that it is not 4 bloody sp.,ech, but does the Noble
Lord object to the word " brutal ?"
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I do not object to any words
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman may have used, with
respect to an address proposed in this House; but I do
object to his using the words " bloody speech" as applied
to a speech which his Majesty has delivered from the
throne.—(Cheers.) . . .

Mr. O'CONNELL.—This raises a constitutional question,
from the discussion of which I shall not shrink. The Noble
Lord is more conversant with the usages of the House
and the privileges of Parliament than I am, and if I
am wrong I will not persevere, but if I am right,

I shall do so. I have always understood that it was a
constitutional privilege for us to argue upon the speech
from the throne, as upon a speech of his Majesty's Minis-
ters. If I am bound to treat it as the speech of his
Majesty, no one will speak of it with more respect or
decorum than myself ; but if I may treat it as the speech
of his Majesty's Ministers, I say that the words
I have used are not harsh enough. I beg to know from
you, Sir, how the matter stands.
Mr. SPEAKER—Since I am appealed to, I must
say the view of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman is
the constitutional view, and that the speech delivered
by his Majesty to both Houses of Parliament is a
speech for which his Majesty's Ministers are responsible.
That, however, appears to me quite beside the question
of order. I put it to the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman himself, and to the whole House, whether, inas-
much as our orders are founded on decency, de-
cency can be maintained, when such epithets are applied
either to a speech of his Majesty's Ministers or to one of
his Majesty himself.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the point having
been decided as he had expected, the reproof, if it
was one, was most gratefully acknowledged by
him. He was now coming to another delicate point,
and what he had to say upon it would perhaps convince
the Noble Lord, and those who had laughed with him,
that he was a little too flippant in imputing the evils of ,
Ireland to agitation. The matter upon which he was
about to speak was the bench of Ireland. Was the
administration of justice in Ireland in a state in which
there was nothing to complain of? Was it not well
known, that for 20 years the patronage of the Bench in
Ireland had been invariably exercised with a reference to
political opinions ? Was it not well known, that during
that period all those who signed petitions in favour of the
emancipation of the Catholics, by that act virtually ex-
cluded themselves from office in Ireland ? Was it not well
known, that if any man had so declared himself the friend
of Catholic Emancipation, he was compelled to make the
amende honorable before he could stand the least chance
of forgiveness? When the Irish people saw all this—
when they saw that although their Judges could not be
rewarded in their own persons for their political bins, they
were rewarded in the persons of their sons or their ne-
phews—if by such means they saw that the Judges,
although they could receive no direct increase of their
incomes, received the indirect increase, which the saving
of the money which they must otherwise have expended
in the support of such sons and nephews occasioned, it
was quite impossible that they could have any confidence
in the administration of justice in Ireland. (The Hen.
and Learned Gentleman here alluded to several instances,
but we were unable to collect his statements
with sufficient accuracy to venture upon stating them).
Adverting to the appointment of Mr. llogberty to the office
of Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, he observed,
that that Learned Judge had, except in one or two
c ises, conducted himself with more propriety than any
Judge on the Bench. But it was absurd to talk of the in-
dependence of the Judges in Ireland. They might he in-
dependent of being operated upon by fear ; they could not
be struck off the list ; but they were not independent of
being operated upon by hope, they were not independent of
the expectation of reward, if not in their own persons, in
the persons of those who were immediately connected with
them. There would be no confidence therefore in the ad-
ministration of justice in Ireland, unless it were an esta
tabli-bed principle (there might beno harm perhaps in ex-
tending the principle to England, although, as he had not
sufficient knowledge of the facts, he would abstain from
saying any thing on that point) that there should be no
indirect modes of rewarding the Judges in that country as
those which were at present resorted to ; that there should
be no employing in the public service their sons and rela-
tions, who would not be employed in any other service ;
that there should be no conferring on such persons a great
deal of public money, while requiring from them a very
small amount of public labour. Another cause of complaint
in Ireland to which he would now advert was the jury
system.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Was it supposed that the
people of Ireland were contented with the existing system
on that subject? The Noble Lord opposite had promised
them last year that they should have a Bill on that subject
similar to that which had been passed with reference to
England seven or eight years ago. That promise, how-
ever, had been broken. And why ? Should he be told that
the measure was not as necessary for Ireland as it had been
found to be for England ? Why, therefore, had it not been
given to Ireland ? Was it not as desirable in Ireland as in
England that juries should not be composed of partisans?
For seven years, however, Ireland had been left in the state
from which England had been rescued ; and when Last year
the poorest boon that could possibly be imagined, a mere
prospective measure had been introduced, in spite of the
promise of the Noble Lord opposite, even that petty mea •
sure had been thrown out in the House of Lords. At
present the clown lawyers had absolutely the power of se-
lecting the individuals of whom the juries were to be com-
posed. He was a living witness of the fact, and could
prove it incontestibly. He could prove it in the case in
which, although a man who had committed no offence
was driven down to the ground by four or five lancers, it
was denied that they had committed even an assault. Let
the House consider what an enormous political power was
conferred by the existing system. The sheriff returned
the panel ; and although by a statute the power had been
taken from the Crown under certain circumstances peremp-
torily to challenge, the Crown was allowed to set aside in.
dividuals until the whole of the panel had been gone
through ; by which means it in fact enjoyed all the benefit
of a challenge. Never was any practice carried to a greater
extent than this practice of selecting juries was carried by
the Crown Lawyers in Ireland. The indecent use of their
privilege in that respect had filled the country with affrigh'.
Who had been the foreman of the jury by whom Mr.
Costello had been convicted in Ireland ? An individual
who had been much before that House. After adverting
to several instances in which this practice had been carried
to a most scandalous extent, the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman said he would proceed to other grievances.
One of the most prominent was, the severe Star Chamber
sentences which had been pronounced in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Was it not enough, for
instance, that the proprietor of the Waterford Mail
had been sent to gaol, and sentenced to pay a heavy fine,
hut must the working printer also be punished 7' Was
not this oppression ? In agitating Ireland on the subject
of the tithe system, his Majesty's Government in that case
had run before the agitators. Public meetings on the sub-
ject of tithes had been put down as conspiracies. Every
body knew the vague notions of what constituted a con-
spiracy which had been held by high legal authorities. The
opinion which had been maintained on that point by Lord
Ellenborough had since been overruled by other Judges ;
for on these subjects the Judges seemed to make the law.
But, not satisfied with actual conspiracies, individuals had
been indicted in Ireland for enticing persons into conspi-
racies. And in one instance a person had been tried on
an indictment for being present at a public meeting tend-
ing to a conspiracy. Was this the course which would
be pursued by a Government wishing to possess the frater-
nal affection of the people? To indict people not only for
a conspiracy, but for enticing persons into a conspiracy,
and for attending a meeting tending to a conspiracy,—
the conspiracy itself being all the while a constructive
offence ! No such thing could ever be attempted in this
country ; but any thing was thought good enough for
Ireland by this reforming Government! Another great
evil under which Ireland laboured was the Grand Jury
system.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They had been told it was
to be remedied ; but he did not know how. The evil
was, that a class of men, appointed by the sheriffs, had
now the power of taxing their neighbours, without
those neighbours being represented.—(Hear.) One of
the consequences of this system was, that the roads
in those parishes and baronies in which the grand jurors
resided were kept in high order at the general expense;
while they were altogether neglected where there were no
rich residents. The grand jurors had power over a full
sixteenth of the landed revenue of Ireland. The taxa-
tion in question was imposed by persons selected by the
Sheriffs ; and such a batch of Conservatives as had this
year been appointed by the Government had never before
been witnessed. What was the fact with respect to the
office of Sberiff? That only one Catholic gentleman had
been appointed to that office, while it bad been filled by
nine tenths of the Protestant gentry in Ireland. Was not
that a great grievance? It had been admitted to be so
even by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite; for he had
talked of applying a remedy to it. And yet with such a

grievance in existence the Right Hon. Gentleman and
others talked et- agitation. Why impute to agit itors the
discontent for which there was sn abundant a cause with-
out them? By these grand juries the people were taxed
without being represented Now that no man should
be taxed without being represented, was a great fun-
damental principle of the Constitution. Still, how-
ever, his Majesty's Government persevered in their
course ; and still they would persevere, until they
had driven Ireland to despair by such " triumphant
miijat ities" as they no doubt would have that
night. Another great grievance in Ireland was the
lay corporations. Was not that a great grievance?
Would not the Right Hon. Member for the University of
Cambridge anew that it was so ? That Right Hon. Gen-
tleman would, lie was sure, concur with him in opinion
on that point. He would concur with him in thinking
that the enormous monopolies created by these Lay Cor-
porations were a great grievance. Look at the Corpora-
tion of Cork. That Corporation had at its annual dis-
posal no less than 74,0001. ; a sum greater than the whole
civil expenditure of the United States. It was exclusively
a Protestant Corporation. So it was with the Corpora-
tion of Dublin. Talk of the bigotry and exclusiveness of
the Catholics l—Let them show him a single Catholic
body which had exhibited so much bigotry and exclusive-
ness as these Protestant bodies. There were none such.
For forty years Catholics had by law been admissible iuto
these Corporations ; hut during these forty years not one
had been admitted,. The Penal Law had been repealed ;
but the bigotry and exclusiveness of individuals had sup-
plied its place. What was the consequence ? The Cor-
porations appointed the Sheriffs, the Sheriffs selected the
Juries; so that in Dublin all great State questions, and those
having reference to taxes or property, were determined on
exclusive principles. Was all this nothing? Was it not a
fact that the persons appointed Sheriffs, were obliged to
drink a certain toast as a pledge of their conduct? He (Mr.
O'Connell) had drank the toast—(A laugh)—but he had
not drank it in their sense ; and he hoped that in the
sense in which he had drank it, it would be unceasingly
drank in Ireland. But in all that he had been describing,
was there nothing to complain of ? He did not sly that
he attributed all these evils to his Majesty's present Go-
vernment. Although the Whig party in all times were
more deeply stained with political offence towards Ireland
than any other party in the State, yet the Members of
his Majesty's Government were not responsible for any
but their own acts. But when they called for more
power, they, by that act, adopted all the crimes of their
predecessors. Instead of calling for fresh power, let
them do justice to Ireland.—(Hear.) Let them pull down
the demand for the repeal of the Union by showing that
that repeal was unnecessary to the prosperity of Ireland.
Did they make any such attempt ? No, they called for
cannon—for horse ; they filled their arsenals—they de•
manded greater powers. The next grievance of which he
would complain was the armed police in Ireland. By the
maintenance of that police, the Irish Government had
stained itself with blood. The question was, first, whether
a police ought to he armed. It might be necessary on some
particular occasion that they should be armed, but they
ought not to continue so. Yet this force, so armed, was
constantly augmenting. Where the police were exposed to
any violent attack, they ought to be prepared to meet
it ; but were deadly weapons to form a part of their daily
dress? Was there to be no market or fair in Ireland with-
out the presence of an armed police? What was the
consequence of such a system ? That the slightest and
most accidental opposition to the police in Ireland was
punished with death. In England the constable had only
his staff, but in Ireland he had his musket and bayonet;
and any man who, in a state of drunkenness, or in the
pressure of a crowd, offended him, was punished with
death. But he knew how little many Hon. Members
cared for Irish blood, and with what sovereign contempt
they listened to these statements. He would repeat, how-
ever, that to arm a police with deadly weapons, and,
instead of apprehending and prosecuting a violator of the
public peace, to punish him on the spot with death, was
a gross and horrible outrage. Nothing could be more
dangerous than the army of yeomanry in Ireland ; it
tended to the increase of crime. Now, though crime had
increased in Ireland, it had not arrived at its earn&
It had been restrained by the strenuous advice of the
calumniated agitators. The armed yeomanry had, how-
ever, been increased from twenty-two thousand to thirty_
one thousand, and what had Since happened? That the
Catholic population in the North of Ireland had armed
themselves. The country was in consequence a volcano.
A tremendous force was prepared to enter upon a servile
war. The Catholics were adopting this measure in their
own defence. He was ready to mention to his Majesty,:
Ministers the name of a Magistrate who, in the course of last
week, had seen a secret meeing of a thousand Catholic
peasantry, well armed, in the north of Ireland. This dis•
position was spreading, and would spread widely. How
did his Majesty's Government meet this evil ? By going
on with the system which created it ; by detnanding greater
poweive Did they think that any powers they could ob-
tain would meet such an evil ? Did they think that any
Act of Parliament would have the effect of dii solving the
secret meetings to which he had been adverting ? Did
they think that the Catholic peasantry would be induced
by any money, by any temptation, to betray their cause ?
They demanded power to put an end to these evils ; and
they prevented the agitators from putting an end to them,
and from restoring peace and happiness to Ireland. He
scorned to ask the House to disbelieve the calumnies
heaped upon the agitators in Ireland; but this he would
tell them—that they might gag those agitators with their
Algerine Acts ; they might send them to prison by sus-
pending the Habeas Corpus, they might shed their blood
on the scaffold : under that scaffold the Catholic peasantry
would assemble, as they were already assembling in the
north of Ireland ; and would prepare to engage in a ser-
vile war of the most dreadful character. A revolution
would be effected ; not a moral revolution, not a political
revolution, but a sword revolution. In the mean time,
what were his Majesty's Government doing ? Endeavour.
ing to put down public meetings in Ireland. Had any
meetiog taken place in that country half so numerous as
the meeting at Birmingham? With one exception, there
had not been a single breach of the public peace at those
meetings. Yet against those peaceable meetings his Ma-
jesty's Government had commenced a crusade. He would
ask the Hon. Member who bad seconded the address with
a modesty of manner which did him great credit, whether
he really thought more power ought to he given to
men who had shown so much anxiety to suppress
meetings at which there had been no violation of law
—at which no assault had been committed—but which
had quietly separated, on being required to do so ? He
would venture to express his perlect conviction, that if the
Hun. Gentleman to whom he alluded knew Ireland as well
as lie (Mr. O'Connell)knew it, that Hon. Gentleman would
he an infinitely stronger agitator than he (Mr. O'C ) was.
Although he knew it was in many cases absurd to say,
post hoc, propter hoc ; yet it was an undoubted fact, that
whenever agitation ceased in Ireland, crime had extended
itself—and that whenever agitation was extended, crime
had ceased. Some great and crying grievances in Ire-
land remained to be enumerated. Was the Vestry Cess
no grievance ? Was it no grievance that seventy-five
Protestants in a parish should have the power of punish-
ing, by taxation, twelve thousand Catholics? Was it no
grievance that the Catholic inhabitants of a parish ten
miles from Waterford, in which Lord Duncannon was the
only Protestant resident, should be thus treated ? In the
parish of St. Andrew's, in Dublin, the Protestant Vestry
had made an additional allowance of 3001. a-year to two
Protestant curates. This was a violation of the law ;
and the order to that effect having been brought before the
Court of King's Bench, was quashed. But what was the
result? That at the next Vestry a rate was levied on the
parish for the payment of the costs of the trial, and the
order for the allowance was repeated. Thus the matter
remained ; the Catholic parishioners finding that it would
be less expensive to consent to the illegality than to dis-
pute it. Such were the acts which his Majesty's Go-
vernment required additional powers to enforce. Let
them fist do justice. Why should the Catholics be com-
pelled to pay Protestant clergy? Why should the Ca-
tholics be compelled to build Protestant churches? Before
the ascendancy of tie Protestants in Ireland, there was a
superabundance of churches in that country; but the Pro-
testants had sold them, or let them go to ruin ; and now they
called upon the Catholics to repair the consequences of their
neglect and misconduct. Was these any agitation equal
to this? Look at the temporalities of the Church, and
say if anything could be more monstrous—if any effect of
agitation could be so pernicious as this system ? The
living of the brother-in-law of Earl Grey had been esti-
mated to bring in nearly 30,0001. annually ; there were
96,000 acres of ground belonging to it. Was this paid
by members of the Church of England ?—(Hear, hear.)
No ; the Presbyterian and the Catholic—worshippers in
a different form, were compelled by this most monstrous
system to pay this divine. They were eight millions, and
there were one million of Protestants, at least it was said
so. Well, there might be one million, but he did not be-
lieve it. Was it to be borne that they were thus to be
treated? What he wanted to know was this—was the
Church to be cut down.—(l.oud cries of" Hear.") They
were agitators, it was said, but their agitation was of a
clear character—it was of a different sort to that which
was the real source of the distress and the insubordination,
and the what not. He did not know that it was distill.
guisbed by two epaulettes--(Hear)—or by troopsto cut down
the people. Force was the cry. This bad ever been the
Government conduct. For 48 years let it be remembered,

force had been unceasingly talked of to Scotland ; but
Scotch broadswords were unsheathed—Scotchmen knew '
their rights—they rallied—they united—they struggled.—
and they succeeded.—(Cheers.) He did not ask for supre-
macy; he w 'rated no supremacy then, and if talked of I ere •
after, he would resist it—(Hear)—but he did strongly con-
tend against, the present unfair and harassing system, an I
insisted on its abolition.—(Hear.) Did not the Ministers
promise it ?—( Hear, hear.) Then let th-m do it. H•
(Mr. O'Connell) wanted to know, were tithes to con-
tinue ?—( Hear, hear.) He wanted to know, was there •
anything in agitation so vicious as that system? The
Turks even, cruel and harsh as they were, despised such
oppression towards the Greeks : they never insisted on
their support of the Mahornetan faith. The Ministers,
however, of England were worse than the Turks. He
meant to detain the House a little longer on the subject of
absenteeism. When speaking of crime, he wished they
would look to absenteeism—to the rents that were con-
stantly going out of the country. Would they litigate
that? He would tell them they could not. Did Ministers
wish to push them on to a servile war ; would they com-
pel them, with the devotio❑ of a Falkland, to join crimi-
nals b,cause greater criminals were arrayed against them?
They called out " force." Why not begin ? Why not
postpone the threat, and do justice to Ireland ; anti then,
if agitation continued, if insubordination showed it•
self in midnight plunder and outrage, call out for
" force." Wait for this—try it, and then, if it failed,
take the excuse, and he would support the cry.—( Hear,
hear.) He wanted nothing but justice for Ireland, and
justice this country had never rendered to her. That
speech which had been delivered was a prototype of
one in the reign of Elizabeth, when Raleigh slaughtered
the garrison of Merbick. The cry of power had ever
been the cry of this country—and under it were com-
mitted those English crimes which were written in the
blood of Ireland. Strafford, the prototype of the Hon.
Gentleman, acted otherwise ; he confiscated the property
of two entire provinces in Ireland, and when Juries re-
fused to convict, he sent them for two years into Dublin
Castle. In the reign of James the Second, eighty thou-
sand acres of land were forfeited in defending the right of
his father. In the present day the same part was acted—
, the scene was somewhat changed—the actors were
different—but their conduct was substantially the same.
There was no real amelioration—no change, nor any in-
tended, as was proved in that address which he had desig-
nated as bloody and brutal. What
she wanted was a
General Committee, that that address might be duly con-
sidered and discussed line by line. If that were really a
Reformed House—if justice to Ireland was really their
object, they would not refuse it.—(Hear, hear.) Justice
had not bee❑ done to Ireland by the Reform Bill. Ile
strongly doubted if he had acted rightly in supporting so
strenuously the English Bill. He bad received hints from
several quarters upo❑ the subject. But he had supper ted
it, and that unflinchingly. Ireland, in her Bill, was
not used anything like so well as England. The
blunders were solely attributable to Government. The
Duke of Wellington took away the franchise; they
(the Ministers) found that injustice when they
came into office, and that they sanctioned it.—(Hear, hear.) It
was no idle motive which made him anxious to introduce so
many of his family into that House. He too well knew the in-
curable ignorance which there prevailed on the real state and
wants of his country, and he was determined to tell them
trumpet-tongued to all.—(Hear, hear.) The number of Re-
pealers returned would at least give the Government some
insight into the sentiments of the people on that subject.—
(Hear, hear.) He wanted a Committee of that House—he
desired that that declaration of war with the people of Ireland
should be modified.—(Loud cries of" Hear.") Let the Ministers
give them a strong and emphatic declaration of intended jus.
tice to Ireland--(Hear)—and if then they applied for force, he
would support them. But the speech promised nothing.—
(Hear, hear.) There were still several points untouched—
there were the prosecutions, to which he would not then ad-
vert, and twenty other topics on which he could say much, but
he would abandon the intention. He knew he spoke in vain—
he felt he made appeals which would fall unheeded on their
ears. He should now know of what that Reformed House was
composed—he should see the high and independent Members for
England voting for "more power." It was of no use his pleading
before a Reformed Parliament in behalf of Ireland—it was vain
lifting up his voice in her cause, for he was sure his answer would
be a laugh at himself, and a laugh at his country. Were then
the grievances of Ireland not real ? It was well known they
were real, heavy, and intolerable ; and if so, was it not the
duty of the Government to redress them ? He would defy
any one who had heard his words—who had taken notice of
his statements—to instance one case in which he had aggra.
vated a grievance—(Hear)—and he would defy any one to find
a people, look where he might, who had agitated, or who had
been guilty of midnight outrage, of insubordination and reck-
less crime, without real grievances.—(Loud cries of " Hear.")
He had done—he thanked the House for the patience with
which he had been listened to they were the last hope, the
last refuge of his country. To them he could only look for
relief from the autocracy of the Right Hon. Gentleman; from
that " sic volo, sic jubeo, stet pro ratione voluntas" to which
his country was subjected. Whether Government was to be ad-
ministered by the Right Hon. Gentleman alone—whether all
was to continue to be concentrated in his self-sufficiency
they must decide. Seven centuries of misrule had been en-
dured by Ireland—Government had been carried on on no other
plan than that of Tamerlane ; and the most outrageous cruel-
ties had been inflicted on a prostrate people. For himself, he
(Mr. o.Connell) laboured under one calamity—that of a sup-
posed personal hostility to the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite. Had he, could he have any such feeling towards
him ? They had never come together, and he denied any
cause for such feeling, and its existence. His were public
grounds. He looked at the accumulation of crime—at the
quantity of blood increasing as it flowed in his unhappy country,
and he still found him the Lord of the Ascendant, dictating to
the Ministry the measures to be pursued. These things he
wanted altered. He asked for the real grievances of Ireland to
be redressed, and then he would go any lengths the 'Ministers
might require.—(Hear, hear.) The Learned Gentleman con-
cluded by moving, as an amendment, for a Committee of the
whole House to consider his Majesty's speech.
Mr. COBBETT seconded the amendment.

Mr. RICHARDS said, after the splendid exhibition of elo-
quence which had been displayed by the Honourable Mem_
ber for Dublin, he felt a considerable reluctance to address
the House, which was not a little increased by the effects of
indisposition. Still, under present circumstances, he should
not feel satisfied in giving merely a silent vote. The Hon.
Member for Dublin had complained of what was in the speech,
but he rose to complain of what was not in it—not of an act
of commission, but one of omission. He did expect that
some mention would be made of the condition of the labqty_
ing and industrious classes, of their distresses and privations.
He did not come there actuated by a spirit of paltry ambition
—(A laugh)—by the mere desire of the empty honour of
franking a letter, so valued by some Honourable Gentlemen
--(Loud laughter)—but to do his duty to the people. He did
expect that an early investigation would be made, into
the causes which had brought on the labouring population a
degree of distress unparalleled in the annals of the country.
On their behalf he challenged that inquiry which could
not be slightly passed over ; which their patience alone,
under most distressing privations, imperatively entitled
them to. He did not impute to Ministers any desire to refuse
such investigation ; but separated as they were from the people
—placed as they were from fortune and station so much above
them, it might be doubted whether the condition of their
humbler fellow-countrymen was sufficiently understood by
them—(Hear, and a laugh)—for, may be, men in power
know not at all of distress that may be prevalent, except
from the populace breaking out into acts of violence. He
should not vote against the address; he was actuated by no
factious feelings towards 'Ministers— Laughter)—and came
there disposed to support them, a',d intending to do so on
every occasion that he conscientiously could do it.—(Loud
laughter and interruption.) He appealed to the House—
(Here the laughter, which had commenced with the Hon.
Member's speech, and been only suppressed at intervals, be-
came loud and general. It was said to originate in some
peculiarity in the Hon. Member's manner; but as he spoke
from the bar, we could form no opinion of the cause of the
mirth The Hon. Gentleman, advancing to the table, conti.
need)—I really don't understand—(Renewed laughter)—
The SPEAKER, in a kind tone, suggested to the Hon.
Gentleman, that if he were consistent with the usual orders
of the House, he would be less likely to be interrupted.
Mr. RICHARDS was exceedingly indebted to the Speaker
for explaining the cause of the laughter. He had frequently
heard of his kindness, and he now found that what had been
told of his courtesy and urbanity was founded simply in truth.
--(Cheers.) Of the causes of the distress on which he was
commenting he should not now eater, but should take the
liberty of saying a few words on what had fallen from the Hon.
Member for Dublin. It should be recollected that agitation
was not the cause of grievances in Ireland, but the effect of
those grievances. But his Majesty's present Ministers were
not chargeable with them. They could all recollect number.
less acts of insubordination and outrage before the present
Ministers entered upon--their functions, and, therefore,
to taunt them on that head was neither fair, just, nor
right. The Hon. Member for Dublin grounded his appeal for
repeal on the injurious conduct of the people of this country to-
wards Ireland. He knew from experience that the Irish were
ains
mg aalnl ayntth,
ignegi
si et rhoeuys;, he
were
pmi toarbel e, o p
nn da nd the
ol lsepcittua
ba
ea_s E(
An gllai sulgi mh
laugh)—
en,
,
but it was not fair to ground the evils under which she laboured
on any supposed injustice of this country. The grand evil
was the want of poor laws.—(Hear.) So far the conduct of Eng.
land had been one series of acts of generosity.—(Cheers and
laughter.) In proof of which he would read a few statistical de-
tails. The Hon. Member then went on to show, that since the
Union the amount of exciseable articles consumed in Ireland
had most largely increased ; and, as it was admitted that their
consumption was a proof of the increased comfort of the people,
he could not but consider that fact as a proof that Ireland must
now be in a better state than it was at that period. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman opposite had said a great deal about
the ill-usage of Ireland by the people of this country—(No)—
well then, by the Government; and this complaint of ill-usage
was added to a complaint of neglect. He, for one, was ready
to take his portion of any obloquy that might be cast on the
Government for their conduct during the last two years.—
(Hear, hear.) He denied that Ireland had experienced either

ill usage or neglect from the Government during that period.
On the contrary, Ireland had received from them every at-
tention. Her interests had been promoted, and every means
had been taken to alleviate the sufferings of her people.
Large sums of money had been voted by the Parliament to
the different public charities of the country, The Honour.
able Member stated the various charities, and the sums
that had been destined for their use, and among others he
mentioned the Lock Hospital, the allusion to which created
some laughter in the House, He then recurred to the
statement about the consumption of exclseable articles, and
particularly referred to those of tea, coffee, and sugar;
all of which were rather luxuries than absolute necessaries
of life, and the use of which, in his opinion, proved an increasing
degree of comfort among the people. Ile must say that it ap.
peared to him too much, after all these facts, for the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman to ascribe all the evils of Ireland to the
Union ; and he believed that when the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman did so, he fell into the vulgar error, asserting prop-
ter hoc good hoc.—(Laughter.) He repeated his opinion, that
the measures of Ireland were not attributable to mistakes in
criminal jurisdictions, or to the promotion of improper persons
to the seats of justice, or to any of the numerous and multifa-
rious complaints which the Hon. and Learned Member was ac-
customed to detail to that House. It appeared to him that the
evils of Ireland were mainly, if not entirely, owing to the want
of Poor Laws—to the want of a demand for labour—that it
was to these causes which he now stated that the crimes
and outrages in that country were attributable, and not to
any of those things to the account of which the Hon. and
Learned Member had eloquently put them. The House
would perhaps indulge him while he related an
anecdote on this subject. In travelling (said the Hon.
Member) recently from Liverpool to London, I met in the
coach an Irish Protestant Clergyman. He told me that he was
coming to take a house in the vicinity of this great metro.
polis. I asked him why he did not remain in Ireland
and discharge the duties of his situation there? He said that
neither he nor his family could remain there in safety. I asked
him why, and then he told me that he was an Irish Protestant
clergyman in the county of Roscommon—that he held a living
within seven miles of the town of Roscommon, and that it was
a living of 400/. a year ; and he added, " but I do not get a
shilling."—(Hear, hear.) I asked him if that was the cause
of his leaving Ireland ? He said it was not, for that he had
a small independent fortune; but he left it because he had
been shot at twice.—(A laugh.) I asked him if he had strictly
enforced the payment of his tithes, or done anything likely
to render himself unpopular ? He said he had not; but
that, on the contrary, he had endeavoured to do all he could
to render himself popular—that he had established a dispen-
sary, and had frequently employed more than half his income
in relieving his poor parishioners. I said that all this appeared
to me perfectly unaccountable, and I asked him whether he
knew of any cause of personal pique existing against him ?
He said that there was none that he knew of—(A laugh)—
but, said he, " I was riding with another clergyman, and
we were both shot at."—(Laughter.) He then told me
that only last spring twenty of his parishioners had called
en him, and said that he had some nice potatoe land ;
he said he had, and wanted to know if they wished to
rent it ; they said that the potatoe land they meant was the
piece of land in front of his house. " Aye, but," said he
" that is my park for my cows." " Yes," said they, "but we
want that for potatoe-land ;" to which he answered, " But you
cannot have that, for I want it for my cows ;" but they re.
plied, " That is the land we want, and we must have it ;" and
the next morning, at a very early hour, he found that more
than 100 men had assembled upon it, and before night every
bit of it was turned up, and converted into land fit to receive
potatoes.— (Laughter.) Ha applied to a neighbouring Magis-
trate, who said he could send a body of police, but asked at the
same time of what use that would be? Besides this, he told me
that three months ago his wife had received letters, stating that
he certainly would be shot, in consequence of which she was
taken with premature labour—(A laugh)—and suffered most
severely. I asked him to what he attributed all this, and he
answered to the Popish priests. I replied that I had often been
in Ireland, and that a more virtuous body of men than the
Popish priests I did not think could he found, and that I was
convinced they never would have recommended such outrages
on his property, or such threatenings of his life. At the same
• .

time I said that I should be glad if he would allow me to ask him
what was the rate of labour in his neighbourhood? He an-
swered that it was fid. a day. " Sixpence a day," said I, " and
can you expect to be free from outrage if such is the rate of
labour ?" " Oh, but," said he, " they think themselves in
heaven if they get 3s. per week, and look upon themselves as
far from unfortunate if they get two days' labour." I said
that after what he had told me, I was surprised that he could
possibly attribute the acts of outrage he had mentioned to
the Popish priests, and not see that they arose, in fact, from the
want of a demand for labour, and from the wretched condition
of the labouring poor. Atter all this, I say that the lion.
and Learned Member's opinions, eloquently as I admit them
to have been expressed, and though I am willing to give him
every credit for honest intentions in entertaining them, are
erroneous, and I am convinced that he is mistaken in what he
conceives to be the causes of insubordination, and in attri-
buting to any list of grievances he has enumerated, and
which he charges on his Majesty's Ministers, the evils that
have prevailed in Ireland for years past, and the state of
degradation in which that country is at present. I believe,
on the contrary, that these evils are to be attributed to the
causes I have mentioned, and that those causes themselves
have been owing to the mistaken generosity of the Parliament
of England in not giving Poor Laws to Ireland, and making
the country gentlemen of Ireland bear a part of that burden
which presses most unjustly and injuriously on the landowners
and people of England.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Hon. Mem.
ber went on to say, that he would not, however, argue this
question, ill-treated as we had been, after the generosity we
had shown to Ireland upon that point alone, though he was
convinced that there was no instance in which our generosity
had been more misplaced than in suffering Ireland to be free
from the payment of those poor-rates, which the English land-
owners and landholders had so long been called on to pay. If
we wished for the tranquillity of Ireland, we must remove the
cause of the disturbances ; and if we wished the agitation to
cease, we must apply proper remedies. To apply those reme-
dies, we must trace those evils to their source. That was to be
found in the want of demand for labour—in the want of a due
rate of wages. Labour would be demanded, and the wages for
it would rise, if Poor Laws were established, so as to take off'
from the market the surplus amount of labour now thrown upon
it. He repeated, that by such a measure the demand for labour
would be increased, better wages would be paid, the labourer
would feel he was enjoying the certainty of employment, and
would be contented with his condition. He was sorry to have
trespassed so long on the time of the House, but he felt that
he had some right to complain of one part of his Majesty's
speech. He meant no disrespect to his Majesty's Ministers,
but he must say that in that speech they had not honestly
brought forward the state of distress of the people of England,
nor considered the anxiety with which the people would look
to the result of the present deliberations, and the expectations
they had formed that their complaints would be distinctly re-
ferred to—expectations which, he must say, the people of this
country were justly entitled to have gratified.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. STANLEY—I am convinced, Sir, that the House will
bear with me, while I trespass for as short a time as I can
upon their attention in making a few observations, and that
they will feel that in the duty I owe the Government, of which
I am a member, it is impossible I should remain silent under
the eloquent and forcible invective—for I cannot call it argu.
meat of the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin.—(Hear,
hear.) lam not surprised that the Hon. Gentleman who has
just sat down should have entered Into those calculations, into
whirls he has gone rather in answer to the speech which
he expected might fall from the Honourable and Learned
Member for Dublin, than to that which the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman has actually made. I am not surprised
that he should have anticipated that on a question like this, a
question of the legislative union of the two countries, Great
Britain and Ireland, which has been placed in issue by the
speech from the Throne, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
who has held forth that the repeal of the Union is the only
remedy for the evils of Ireland, that within twelve months a
Parliament shall be held in Dublin, that that alone would re-
lieve Ireland and press the Sassenach—(" No," from Mr.
O'Connell)—" No," does the Zion. and Learned Member
say? Will he deny that every syllable lie has breathed forth
—that every word he has spoken—that every sentence to which
he has given utterance, has had that for its object ?—(Hear,
hear.) Will he deny, that with words of conciliation falling

from his mouth, with the breathings of peace upon his lips,
his speeches have tended to excite the feeling, that as long as
Ireland is subject to a foreign yoke, there is no hope for her
happiness, no chance for her peace, no possibility of her ele.
vation from her debased and degraded state, and that ►n the
repeal of the Union alone can she hope for these advantages,
and shake off these evils ; and that in freeing herself from
Saxon dominion was to be found her only hope for peace,
tranquillity, and happiness ? I say that, after all this, we
may well be surprised to hear such a speech as that
which has fallen from the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman, especially when we come here and ask him to meet us
before the assembled Parliament of Great Britain and Ireland
upon this question of repeal, and we say, that with all the
powers of the Government, and with all the energies of the
people, without which the Government would be nothing—
his panacea is one we will resist to the death.—(Loud cheering,

and cries of " Bravo," in the House; some of the persons in
the gallery were beginning to applaud, but were instantly
checked by the officers.) I tell him, that it is one which, as the
death-blow of the empire, we will resist—we will do so, as we
wish to strengthen that empire at home and abroad—as we
wish for united councils and enterprises—and as we wish, that
whenever we are called on to exercise our strength, we may
bring into operation the united strength of a great empire. As
we wish for each and all of these things, and viewing, as we do,
the repeal as the death-blow to the peace, the strength, and
the security of the United Empire, we should be traitors to our
country, if, with every means which the power and resources
of this great country affords, we did noi ,my we will have no
separation.—(Loud cheering.) When we call on the Hon.
and Learned Member to meet us on this subject, he rises and
addresses his speech less to those within than to those with Gui
the House.—(Hear.) He makes the usual declarations, that the
statement of the evils of Ireland is listened to with impatience,
though .nothing can be more convincingly negatived than is
that statement, by the patience with which the House has
listened to the Hon. and Learned Member. Yet he tells us of
a course of injustice ; he charges us with indifference in look.
ing on the state of Ireland, and he enumerates a catalogue of
grievances, no small portion of which the Government have an-
nounced their intention to meet and destroy.—(" No,"
" Order.") Feeling that he was without support—knowing
that he had not in his favour any test of public opinion—that
the voices of the majority of the Members for Ireland were not
with him, the question has been evaded from first to last; and

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,---1--.
he who was within 12 months to have a Parliament in College ~, -:
green, does not venture, when the question is proposed to bun, 41,s' '.,,i tr.
~'
-o grapple With it in the Legislative Assembly of Great Britain. ~,. '
.e. e., ' ._
—(Cheers.) I shall endeavour now shortly to follow the Hon. ‘l' ' re!e
-, -
and Learned Gentleman in the charges he hareade; but 1
. . .'" .
must first be allowed to say that there are stenb,sehich have
M 1
come with no great grace from him as an Irli
an, or as a
Catholic, or as an individual, as to the neglect With which
the Catholics of Ireland have been treated. He will an
far go with me as to admit the accuracy of that portion
of the speech which describes the increase of crime and
the insecurity of life and property. There has been an
increase of burglaries, of robberies, and of murders. I
will not read the catalogue, for I will not ask you to be-
lieve even that which is officially reported to the consti.
tuted authorities. I cannot, however, omit to point out one
or two counties in which the system of agitation first corn,
inenced, in which it has not been put down by any extreme ap-
plication theeioiltoef.t;and I
laa', and in
the whichatteangtiitoan oftior nowtshe Hu
prevails
to
ilstoltlisee
fullest
enumeration lam about to make. The two counties are Kit.
kenny and the Queen's Couuty. In Kilkenny alone, within
the last 12 months, there have been 32 murders and attettipte to
murder, 34 burnings, 519 burglaries, 36 acts of houghieg ot
cattle, and the number of illegal notices and violent and se-
rious assaults, by which I mean assaults attended with danger
to life and limb, has been 170: In Queen's- County the number
has been even more. There hive been 60 murders or attempts
to murder; burglaries, (i 26) maliciOus injuries to property, 115:
of the fearful
and serious assaults upon indlVlduatlithtar,u).lynobtleabhresaLoeudtaahideeedopbuoyt.
thist:nhitincrease
or
enHca asioetnna 1.
of
i.agi
snude ,i
crimea ; te Isitii
yenh, I believe
which
circus Lance ; ' that
tains Itit a small portion of those acts of Vidlegiee which
Learnedslstrilhe:iGaseneehndlii;sl eult
a, nafdnorimhii,:ilstileilent;occa'sonilty
is,
d cones
have actually. been committed. These arc obly those
w • have been represented to the police ; o.lse hundred,4
re ds, amounting to twelve thousand pounds, have Isj:0 cil,
feredi be the Government, and of these two only have beet:
c aimed. So complete is the system of disorganization—so fearful
is the discipline of these marauders. So extensive is the con-
nexion of these disturbers of the public peace, that the victims
dare not complain ; they are compelled to suffer in silence, and
knowing the individuals by whom they have been attacked, to
submit implicitly, and without a murmur, to the commands of
those whom they know to have the means of death in their
hands, and whom I can qualify with no lighter term than that
of insurgents. This is the state of things in Ireland. Is it a
state in which we can say that the law is respecte 1 ? I fear. d
almost that we should be taunted by those who, in this House
laic year, accused us of supineness, and that they should now
charge the Government with not having used with etiftieiefit
severity the powers they possessed. If that is a faith we must
acknowledge ourselves guilty. We were willing to truet to the
law
thegoinge;vt
iobl
seh,
yoot pi
n:d ti hitehartep iel tat
uww.a:s
wdaedi
se adequate
dotcnocoai
tt ss i
topi
nlul
ertdphoebs
yel
as
sa: aeor.sodtvr
eke
rinnnei:i
ye
ri s itit
call for extraordinary powers. But placed as we are, even
taking the description of the Hon. and Learned Member him-
self as to the state of the Catholic population—a description he
has studiously put forth, and in which he represents that pc,
pulation as armed, and ready to enter into a servile war—
(Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—a description which he
now affirms by his cheer ; but, notwithstanding which,
he tells us that we ought not to come down and ask Parliament
for powers to suppress those disorders, till Parliament has re-
medied, of course to his satisfaction—(A laugh)—all those
grievances of which he complains. Why, Sir, these grievances
are too deeply seated to be remedied by one act of any Legiss
ature, however willingly disposed to do so.—(Hear, hear.)
But if you are called on to remedy these grievances, are yott
to be called on to do so under the terror of a civil war, when
life is threatened, property insecure, and anarchy prevails,
qualified only by the despotism of some self-styled Liberal l'—=
(Loud cheers.) To call on the British Parliament to remedy
grievances in this state of things, is not calling on them to
legislate, but to crouch in submission.—(Hear, hear.) The
Honourable and Learned Member has said that he shall be sa.
tisfied with a promise of redress of grievances, and that if that
promise is made, he shall not refuse extraordinary powers.
In the customary terms of speech, it is not possible for his
Majesty to point out more clearly the grievances under which
Ireland suffers. But has she suffered from these strider the
Union only ? Are they evils of yesterday ? , Have they beeil
inflicted by the English Parliament alone? Were there tic/
complaints, is. disturbances when a domestic Legislature
swayed the power of Government in Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.)
Were none of these evils originated by a Legislature, cor-
rupted, perhaps, by England, and ruled by her 'sower, and
compelled to yield obedience to her authority, but existing
in all the vigour of fancied independence ? Let the task of
the remedy be undertaken by a British Legislature, not go
verned, however, by those angry and party feelings'which the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman so well conceals under that
philosophy with which he addresses this House. Let the care
of this Parliament be to examine substantive grievances, to
remedy real complaints, but let them do this with 'sower in
their hands, and let them amend the laws only while they
possess the power of controlling those who live under them, and
while the laws are obeyed so long as they are in existence.--
;Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, told us an
anecdote which excited much laughter among some Hon.
Members, but which, if looked at seriously, is calculated to ex-
cite feelings of the deepest compassion, and to produce a clear
conviction in the mind of every man, that the power of Eng-
land most be put forth for the protection of its subjects.--
(Hear.) Can Parliament hear with indifference that a clergy-
man, an amiable man, has had his property attacked, his life
threatened, his peace disturbed, the happiness and security of
his family destroyed, and all this not on the charge of endea.
vouring to enforce beyond the law the rights to which by
law he was entitled—not even for pressing for that which
the law would afford him, but, on the contrary, after having
exerted the utmost benevolence, and after having devoted
one-half of his income in relieving the poor. I admit the
evils of the system of tithes now existing in Ireland ; but is it
conceivable that it should cause such a proscription of a humane
and useful body of men, whose only crime is that they wished
to live in peace with their neighbours? Yet this is the case
with a body of men brought up in luxury, having the habits,
education, and feelings of gentlemen, who have looked to their
appointments in the Church as a provision for life, on which
they have reared their families—on which they have insured
their lives, and who have yet been obliged to beg their bread
from their friends in consequence of this alarming state of
things in the country in which they reside. If it be a crime
to wish to protect such persons, I must certainly plead guilty,
for I do wish to do it.—(Cheers.) It may be said that these
attacks have been made by the lowest classes. I admit it. I
admit, too, that these classes labour under the greatest difficul-
ties from high rents, and from a variety of other causes, for
which the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last has suggested what
he thinks to be a remedy, and that all these causes may have
tended to induce sonic of these parties to join in these midnight
outrages ; but it is not the less necessary to repress them,
for if they have been committed by the lowest classes,
they have also been committed upon the lowest classes.
—(flsar, hear, hear.) It is not on the wealthy or
the powerful, but on the orphan, the widow, the defenceless, the
old, the blind, and the impotent, that are chiefly perpetrated
these outrages, which would be disgraceful to a country in a
state of half civilisation, and it is for the protection of those
who cannot protect themselves that these powers which we
now ask, and which I am confident Parliament will not refuse,
are absolutely necessary for the defence of their life and liberty.
—(Heer.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman says that all
will be well if we give them agitation. Can he say that there
has been none already ? Cats he lay Isis hand on his heart, and
truly say, that he has given no advice which has led ignorant
deople beyond the limits of the law ? And are we to suffer
them still to lie misled into the commission of these outrages,
when it is on those who are thus deceived, and not on those
who deceive them, that the heaviest consequences of these dis-
orders always fall ? When Magistrates were held up as objects
of dislike, and the police of every annoyance, provided it was
legal—(A laugh)—when resistance to tithes was encouraged,
provided it did not violate the letter of the law, and 10 or 20,0(0
men were directed to assemble to protect a tithe sale—that the
sale might be no sale—(A laugh)—was it surprising that the
lion. Gentleman's exhortations sometimes failed of effect, and
that his victims sometimes expiated with their blood the conse-
quences of his advice ? It was not extraordinary that they
should transgress the limits of the law, when distinguished
lawyers were found to have been mistaken in their views
of it.—(A laugh). The Honourable Gentleman opposite,
under his own hand and signature—pledging also his pro-
fessional reputation to the soundness of his opinion--
had declared that- a letter tending to excite a combination
against law, was - "not a treasonable violation of any law.
Within three weeks a gentleman, himself a member of the
bar, under the very statute rejected as quite inapplicable.
in those very words, was indicted. The statute was that for
which I received some praise from the Learned Gentleman
list Session, because I had introduced an amendment of U—
tile Whiteboy Act. The gentleman had the advantage of the
Honourable Member's talents, and what was the advice he
got from him? To plead guilty to every count of the in.
dictment. Would he deny it ?—(Laughter, and hear, from
Mr. O'Connell; I don't deny it, I admit it fully.) That
great law authority was deceived, and his letter and conduct
were utterly at variance. (Mr. O'Connell denied the state-
ment as to the letter.) The Honourable Member denies
the letter; but I believe I could produce it this moment.--
(.t laugh.) The Honourable Member had next alluded to
the selection of Juries in tithe prosecutions, and to the
power which the Crown possessed of setting aside Jurors.
I acknowledge the existence of the power ; but by whom
was it used ? Why, by the Honourable Gentleman himself,
at the prosecution of Sir G. Bingham. In Tralee four ptr-
sons were tried, three were found guilty by a Jury composed
of nine Protestants and three Catholics ; and no man was set
aside who was not charged with actual offences, for
which those individuals were to be trie.l. The ver-
dict on the Gallant Officer I do not impugn ; I do
not say that, situated as he was, he may not have overstepped
the limits of the law. But what was the selection of the Jury
there? It was composed of eleven Catholics.—(Mr. O'Con-
nell—" Ten.") I was given to understand that the number
was eleven ; but be it so. There was one Protesfant, and 17
persons were set aside by the much-abused power of the Crown
—(Laughter and hear.) This conduct called down the repro-
bation of the Judge (Judge Moore), as respectable and liberal
. s an a man as any in Ireland. He declared that it "a.
exhibi-
tion he had never
raenebyveitfihoari
7e,
gdfl oe s witnessed,Catholics—(A
dt i3O lifaconsr:;Aelti
Ireland
dui tg
htv`i),..._aasn :iladng;°.;:.
abuse of the privileges of a prosecution. I will now go more at
length into the charges against the Whig Government, who
have worked
wneovrekreddorrinoe
their predecessors.—(Hear, from the Opposition benches.)
The Hon. Gentleman claims the exclusive merit of having

f 'mot
~_

•