The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-09 00:00:00

IVISIONS,

KAFIR WAR.
Lard J. RUSSELL proposed the nomination of the
Select Committee on the relation of the Kafir tribes with
this couutry, to consist of the Secretary at War, the
?Jarquis of Granby, Sir E. Buxton, Mr. Stanley, Colonel
Thompson, Mr. Cardwell, Viscount Mandeville, Mr.
Evans, Mr. Mackinnon, Mr. Carter, .s:r J. Waloaslev,
Mr. Beaker, Admiral Dundee, Colonel Estcourt, and
Mr. Hawes.
Colonel DUNNE cemplained that in the Committee
,rhich the Noble Lord proposed to nominate, not a single
Irish Member had been mentioned; and that not in that
Committee alone, but in ell Committees of the House,
Irish Members were systematically left out.—(hoar,
hear.) If Ireland was considered a part of the United
Kingdom, he thought it exceedingly unfair that its re-
presentatives should be constantly excluded in that way
from Committees of the House.—(Bear, hear.) In other
respects he thought the Committee had not been fairly se-
lected, and he would oppose its nomination.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was certainly not inten-
tional on his part that no Irish 'Gentlemen were nomi-
nated on this Committee. He had endeavoured to select
the Committee in the fairest manner ho could, and it
certainly had not occurred to ihim that any Irish Mem-
ber would be desirous of being placed upon that Com-
mittee. If the lion. and Gallant Mercla r was himself
willing to serve upon it, he would strike out the name of
Admiral Dundas, and insert that of the Hon. and Gal-
lant Member for Purtarlington.
Mr. HOBHOUSE considered that the system of ap-
pointing Committees was most partial cud unjust, and if
no other Member brought the subject forward, he would
undertake to do so. The system was carried out in
order to blind the country. Gentlemen on the Treasury
benches compared lists, and having agreed among them-
selves, they excluded some of the most intelligent and
able Members of the House. He would ask whether the
omission of names was a privilege or an exclusion, when
such Gentlemen as theaMembers for Leominster and
King's Lynn were excluded? It was an exclusion. He
would take leave to say that ho had been seven years
Member of that House, and was not inferior to many
Members who were appointed upon Committees. It was
also a means of obtaining information which would
enable Members to be in a condition to serve their
country. It was also a means of gaining popularity. For
example. when is Committee recommended the abolition
of the office of the Master of the Mint, a Member of
that Committee would go down to his conetituents and
say, see what I have done.—(Hear, hear.) They saw an
Hon. Member serving on Committees who was connected
with what was called the leading journal. Parties were
put upon these Committees that they might obtain popu-
larity. Ho thought, now that the Government had de-
puted the duty of the Government to Committees of that
House, they ought to adopt the French system, and divide
themselves into bureaus. The mode of nominating these
Committees was most objectionable, and it was, in his
judgment, a constitutional questicn, which ought to be
coniidered, and ho should next session call the attention
of the House to it.
Mr. REYNOLDS considered that there ought to be
at least three Irish Members upon the Committee, and
complained of his own exclusion from two local Com-
mittees on former occasions. He would suggest to the
Noble Lord not to press the nomination of the Com-
mittee that night, but to take time to consider the
matter.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the Hon. Member for Lincein was mistaken in
stating that the Hon. Members for Leominster and
King's Lynn had not been placed upon Committees.
The Hon. Member for Leominster had served last ses-
sion upon the Attorney-General's Committee on the
bankruptcy laws.
Mr. HOBHOUSE explained that what he had said
was, that the omission of a Member's name from a Com-
mittee could not be considered an exemption, because
such rising and and able Members as the Hon. Member
for King's Lynn and the Lion. Member for Leominster
were placed upon Committees.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
not say a word more on that subject, as ho had mis-
understood the Hon. Member; but with regard to Ire-
land, he could say, that for the last four or five weeks
hardly one Committee had been appointed which had
not one or two Trifle Members upon it.
Mr. KEOGH said that this question had been before
the House last year, when it was found that of twenty-
one Committees Irishmen were excluded from fourteen.
On the Irish Customs Committee Mr. Fagan had been
appointed, although it was known that he was about to
retire, and his place was supplied by Mr. Torment, who,
owing to ill health was seldom able to he present. Ho
would oppose the Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
person who had been selected was Mr. Teanent, Mem-
ber for one of the largest and most prosperous towns in
Ireland.
Mr. SADLEIR had no doubt whatever that the ex-
clusion of Irish Members was systematic, and he could
not forget that there was not a single Irish Member on
the Committee or the Commission appointed to inquire
as to the best Transatlantic station.
Colonel DUNNE moved the postponement of the
Committee.
Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL observed that he had not the
least objection to any number of Irish Gentlemen serv-
ing on the Committee. And as the Hon. Member for
Dublin said that he thought that three would be a fair
proportion, he was willing that the Committee should
consist of seventeen Members, and that the name of Ad-
miral Dundas should be omitted. If the Hon. Member
far Athlone would allow the nomination of the Com-
mittee to proceed now, he (Lord J. Russell) would
upon Monday propose the names of three Irish
Members.
Mr. KEOGH would oppose the nomination until ha
knew the names of the Irish Members. He protested
against the Committee altogether. lie would, there-
fore, move the adjournment of the debate.
Mr. HUHE appealed to the lion. Member not to
persist in his opposition, after the concession of the
Noble Lord.
Colonel DUNNE was satisfied with the proposition of
the Government, and entreated his Hon. Friend to forego
his opposition.
Mr. HO ARE considered the demand of his Hon.
Friend perfectly fair. He wished merely to know the
names which were to be nominated.
Mr. SADLEIR saw no inconvenience arising from the
postponement of the question. They_had not raised it for
the mere purpose of a profitless discussion.
Lord NAAS entreated his Hon. Friend to give way.
The Noble Lord had conceded all that was demanded.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that if he postponed the
Committee until Mondayi he had no guarantee that
the lion. Member would be more reasonable upon
that day.
Mr. BRIGHT was not aware that the Irish Members
had suffered, or that any question had suffered by the
exclusion of Irish Members—(Laughter)—because he
agreed very much with the Hon. Member for Lincoln,
that Committees were chosen in a very unsatisfactory
manner, and that nine out of ten were nothing but a
sham.—(Hear.) Ho was glad the question had been
brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman behind him,
and he hoped that in future the Irish Members would
take a greater part in Committee work, and that
there would be no cause to complain that they did not
attend as well as English Members. Tho Noble Lord
having consented to add the names of three Irish Mem-
bers, in common fairness he trusted the Hon. Member
(Mr. Keogh) would not mar the effect of that which had
been done by insisting that the Committee should not
be appointed to-night.
Mr. KEOGH could not defer to the advice of
the Honourable Member for Manchester, and he hoped
the friendly sneer directed to Irishmen would be remem-
bered not only by Irish Members in the House, but by
Irishmen out of doors, and that might be important to
the Hon. Gentleman. It was very unpleasant to object
to the name of any Gentleman, particularly to the name
of any Member from his part of the country; and, there-
fore, he must persevere, at the risk of incensing the
Hon. Member for Manchester. in objecting to the ap-
pointment of a portion of the Committee until it could
be appointed as a whole.
Mr. BRIGHT said it was entirely a mistake if it was
thought he intended a sneer on Irish Members.--(Hear,
hear.) No one had paid more attention or taken more
interest than he had in Irish business; but that was a
very dull place, and it was a common thing, if a double
meaning could be attached, to raise a laugh and convey
a meaning different to that intended.
The House then divided, when there apps
For the adjournment of the debate
131
Against "' "' 115
Majority ..• "• ••• •
ar, the Marquis
TG
hr ao
py
8,
The following gentlemen were then appointed ons the
Committee :—Mr. Secretary-at-W
MStaanndle,,yv,illCe,oloxinerl.
onS,ir Edwardcard Buxton,we l
Carter, Sir Joshua
Evans, Mr. Mackinnon, M.
cWouarimt, ViscMourt.
notice that he should propose the
salneyd,lsitlirr..llßaowokees.r, Admiral Dunda s, Colonel Est-
Mr. KEOGH gave
third
time, and passed.
Dunne
eonto othf
eMcr. Sad
Committee,
Mr. Reynolds, and Colonel
teer
BrelaLdLa.
PROCESS AN 1$ PRACTICE (IRELAND) BILL.
ThisCßOillrviO•ars,saDtte Oa
U shortSE discussion,HO E 8
Mr. REYNOLDS complained that the Attorney-
General for Ireland had, in violation of a promise given
by the Noble Lord at the hea a
thin d of the House at G overnm
nearly ent, pantwoed
the Bill through a stage in
o'clock in the morning.
Mr. FOX MAULE said the promise of the Noble
Lord was only witOhn res
that occas to Bionills
there were to which aa
number
-
tion was made.
of Irishmen present, not one of whom objected to the Bill
passing through Committee.
The amendments as proposed were then agreed to.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the Houle adjourned at a_Quarter to Two o'clock.

(From the Vctes and Preceelings of the Howe of Conarons)

THURSDAY, MAY 8.
MALT-TAX.

Motion made, and Question put, " That leave be given to
bring in a Bill to repeal the Malt-tax." The House
divided :

MINORITY-AYES, 122.
Adderley, C. B. Farnham, E. B. Newdegate, C. N.
Alcock, Thomas Fellowes, E. O'Brien, Sir T.
Bagge, William Floyer, John O'Connell, John
Bagot, William Forbes, William O'Flaherty, AntkOnY
Barron, Sir H. Frewen, C. H. Palmer, Robert
Barrow, W. 11. Fuller, A. E. Pechell, Sir G.
Bass, M. T. Gallwey, Sir W. P. Plumptre, J. P.
Bennet, Philip Galway, Viscount PortaLlMelville
Beresford, William Gaskell, J. M. Prime, Richard
Best, John Gilpin, R. T. Pugh, David
Blackstone, W. S. Gooch, E. S. Rendlesham, Lord
Blake, M. J. Granby,lMarquis of Renton, J. C.
Blandford, Marquis Greene, John Reynolds, John
Booker, T. W. Guernsey, Lord Rufford, Francis
Booth, Sir It. G. Halford, Sir Henry Rushout, Captain
Bramston, T. W. Harris, Captain Sadleir, John :
Broadley, 11. Heneage, Edward Salwey,"Colonel
Brooke, Lord Henley, J. W. Scully, Francis
Buck, L. W. iggins, George Seymer, H. K.
Burghley, Lord Iliblyard, T. B. Sibtliorp, Colonel
Burroughes, H. N. Hill, Lord E. Somerset, Captain
Cabbell, B. B. Hornby, John Spooner, R.
Child, Smith Jolliffe, Sir AV. H. Stafford, Augustus
Cholnicley, Sir M. Keating, Robert S.ephenson, ItoWrt
Christopher, R. Keogh, Wil;!ain Stuart, johu
Cobbold, J. C. Knightley, Sir C. Stuart, 11.
Coles, 11. B. Knox, W. S. Stunt, 11. G.
Colvile, C. R. Lawless, Cecil Sullivan, 3iichael
Compton, 11. C. Lennox, Lord 11. G. Talbot, J. 11.
03nolly, Thomas Lewisham, Viscount Trollop°, Sir J.
Cotton, W. 11. Long-, W. Tyler, Sir G.
Crawford. W. S. Maher, N. Tyre,ll, Sir J.
Curteis, 11. M. Meagher, Thor,.as Vyse, R. 11. R. H.
Devereux, John T. Manners, Lord G. Waddington, David
Disraeli, B. Manners, Lord J. Waddington, H. S.
Dod, J. W. March, Earl of Walley, T.
Dodd, G. Mattusell, T. P. Williams, John
Drummond, Henry Miles, William Williams, W.
Duncombe, A. Milton,•Viscouut Yorke, E. T.
Dunne, Colonel Moore, G. ii. TELLERS.
Du Pre, C. G. Mullings. J. R. Cayley, E. S.
Evelyn, William J. Mundy, William Hume, J.

MAJORITY—NOES, 238.
Abdy, Sir Thomas Gladstone, W. E. Paget, Lord C.
Acland, Sir T. Glyn, G. C. Palmer, Roundell
Adair, R. ShaSto Graham, Sir J. Palmerston, Vis.
Aglionby, H. A. Greene, Thomas Parker, John
Anson, Colonel Grenfell, Charles W. Peel, Colonel
Armstrong, B. B. Grey, Sir G. Peel, Frederick
Ashley, Lord Grey, Ralph W. Perfect, Robert
Bagshaw, John Grosvenor, Lord R. Peto, Samuel M.
Baines, M. T. Guest, Sir John Pigott, Francis
Baring, Sir F. Hall, Sir B. Pilkington, James
Baring, Thomas Hallyburton, Lord Pinney, William
Baring, Francis Harmer, Sir John Plowden, W. H.
Bell, Jacob Hardcastle, J. A. Power, Nicholas
Bellew, R. M. Harris, Richard I'owlett, Lord W.
Berkeley, Admiral Ilastie, Alexander lt,awdon, Colonel
Berkeley, Henry F. nestle, Archibald Reid, Colonel
Berkeley, C. L. Hatchell, John Ricardo, J. L.
Ricardo, Osman
Bernal, Ralph Ilawes, Benj.
Birch, Sir T. Hayes, Sir E. Rice, E. R.
Blair, Stephen Headlam, T. E. Rich, Henry
Blakemore, R. llcald, James Richar
Colonel
ds, Richard
Bouverie, E. P. Heathcoat, John Rornilly,
Bowles, Admiral Heatheote, Sir G. J. Romilly, Slr John":
Russell, Lord John
Boyle, Colonel Heneag,e, G. H.
Bright, John Henry, Alexander Russell, Edward S.
Brocklehurst, J. llcrbert, Sydney Russell, F. C.
Brockman, E. D. Hervey, Lord A. Sanders, George
Brotherton, J. Heywood, James Scropc, G. P.
Brown, W. Heyworth, L. Seymour, 11. D.
Balkeley, Sir R. B. llindley, C. Seymour, Lord
Busfeild, W. Hobhouse, T. B. ShelburnelEarl of
Cardwell, Edward Hodges, T. L. Sheridan, R. B.
Caulfeild, J. M. Hodges, T. TWisden Slaney, R. A.
Cavendish, C. C. Hogg, Sir J. W. Smith, Vernon
Cavendish, G. 11. Howard, Lord E. Smith, John Abel
Cavendish, W. U Howard, C. W. G. Smith, M. T.
Charteris, Francis Hutt, William Smith, John B.
Childers, J. W. Inglis, Sir R. Smollett, A.
Clay, James Jermyn, Earl Somers, J. P.
Clay, Sir W. Kershaw, James Somerville, Sir W.
Clements, C. S. Labouchere, H. Spearman, H. J.
Clifford, 11. 111. Langston, J. H. Stanford, J. F.
Cockburn, Sir A. Lawley, B. R. Stanley, W. 0.
I Coke, lion. E. K. Lemon, Sir C. Stansfield, W. R. C.
Colebrooke, Sir T. Lewis, Sir T. Stanton, W. H.
Collins, William Lewis, G. C. Strickland, Sir G.
Cowan, Charles Lindsay, Colonel Stuart, Lord J.
Cowper, W. F. Littleton, E. R. Talbot, C. R.
Craig, Sir W. G. Loch, James Tancred, 11. W.
Crowder, R. B. Locke, Joseph Tenison, Edward K.
Currie, Raikes Lockhart, A. E. Tennent, , . J.
Dalrymple, Captain Loveden, Pryse Ihicknesse, It. A.
Davie, Sir H. Lushington, C. Thompson, Colonel
Dawson, T. V. Lygon, Gen. Thornely, T.
Denison, J. E. Mackinnon, W. A. Tollemache, F. J.
D'Epicourt, C. T. M'Gregor, John Townley. R. G.
Douglas, Sir C. 11I`Taggart, Sir J. Trail, George
Drumlanriss, Viscount Mahon, Viscount Trelawny, J. S.
Drummond, Home Mangles, R. D. Trevor, Thomas
Duff, George S. Marshall, J." G. Vane, Lord;li.
Duff, James Marshall, William Verner, Sir W.
Duke, Sir James Martin, C. W. Vesey, Thomas
Duncan, George Matheson, Alex. Villiers, Viscount
Duncuft, John Matheson, Sir J. Villiers, Charles
Dunelas, Admiral Matheson, Colonel Vivian, J. H.
Dundas, Sir D. Mende, Fox Wahnsley, Sir J.
Ebrington, Viscount Melgund, Viscount Walter, John
Egerton, Sir P. Miles, P. W. S. Watkins, Colonel
Ellice, Edward Milner, W. M. Wawa, J. T.
Ellice, F., Jun. Milnes, R. M. Welby, G. E. •
Ellis, John Mitchell, T. A. Wellesley, Lord C.
Elliot, John E. Moffatt, George West, F. R.
Einlyn, Viscount Moody, C. A. Westhead, J. P.
Enfield, Viscount Morgan, H. K. G. Willcox, Brodie
Eltcourt, J. B. Morris, David Willyams, 11.
Easton, Earl Mostyn, E. M. L. Williamson, Sir H.
Evans, J. Mowatt, Francis Wilson, James
Evans, William Mulgrave, Earl of Wilson, Matthew
Ewart , Willi am Niche% J. Wodelionse, E.
Fergus, John Norreys, Lord Weod, Sir Charles
Ferguson, Sir R. Norreys, Sir D. Wood, Sir W. P.
Foley, J. 11. O'Connell, M. J. Wrightson, W. B.
Forlyce, A. D. Ogle, S. C. Wyvill, Marrnaduke
Forster, Matthew OA William Young, Sir John
Forteseue, J. W. Owen, Sir John TriAatas.
Fox, W..}. Packe, C. W. llayter, W. G.
, Gibsoil, T. M. Paget, Lord A. Hill, Lord M.

THE GREAT EXHIBITION.
Yesterday the MIK of visitors to the Exhibition was
greater than ever, and the sum taken at the (lure could
not have been much short of 2,000/. This is of course
entirely the proceeds of the ss. entrance fee, and does
not irciude the large amount still accruing from the sale
of season tickets. All connected with the undertaking
are very naturally overjoyed at the success in a financial
point of view which thus attends it, and which is mani-
fested more and more decisively every day. The im-
provement in the weather has acted with magical effect
upon the flaw of visitors, and brought out the beauty
and fashion of London into Hyde-park just as sunshine
' developes butterflies. They take possession of the Crys-
tal Palace in a manner which must make the Royal
Commission have sundry misgivings about their power
to keep it in their own hands now, or to have it removed
a few months hence. A man may be coerced, but how
are ladies to be dealt with shout,' they take it into their
heads to keep the building as a promenade, for which
it really seems to be well adapted, when the exigencies
of our variable climate arc remembered? o:her cities,
under more genial skies, have their places of fashionable
resort, where friends meet and chat and part without
the bother of a formal call. here, unhappily, the wea-
ther destroys one-half of our opportunities to learn
cheerfulness, and our stiffness of character does the rest.
One would think, from present appearances, that the
Crystal Palace is likely to be seized upon by the public
as supplying a great want in this respect. Of course, at
present, and while thronged with thousands of specta-
tors, it is not a place of rendezvous. Friends may be
there and on the look-out for each other for hours to-
gether without meeting. In fact, this is ge nrrally the
case, but as the first excitement wears off simple
arrangements might be made for obviating incon-
veniences of this kind arising out of the size of the
building. One particular central spot might be se-
lected where messages might be left that you had
stepped into Tunis or China, or gone to Egypt er
Italy, or started on a trip to America. Every one
might be thus forthcoming to his friends at once, or
if ho wished to avoid them, as is sometimes unfor-
tunately the case, the Crystal Palace with its endless
courts and avenues, with it secluded nooks for raw pro-
duce and paper-hangings, is just the place for that pur-
pose. Even now, when feom 20,000 to 30,000 of the
i most nquintive and adventurous people on the face of
the.
earth are busily engaged in rummaging its multifa-
rious contents, it is quite possible to creep away into so-
litudes uninvaded by the bustling Babel elsewhere.
Such is the size of the building, no part of which is
overcrowded, while some still remain unvisited.
Everybody when be enters it has an intense
desire to walk from end to end, to examine first one
compartment and then another, and to test his absorb-
ing powers in the way of sight. seeing for one day.
Under the influence of strong curiosity feats of pedes-
trianism are performed, the results of which areches ou
riouely manifested as the hour for closing approa.
Ladies are then seen anxiously casting about for seats
in the already overcrowded benches with which
the nave and transept are furnished. An army of
of ex-
hausted finery reposes under the grateful shade
the same
elms and palm trees singularly blended in
scene. There they rest themselves after the fatigues of
their progress through the industries of nations and con-
tinents, reluctant to quit a spectacle where.tbeirwatch-
adult-
ration has been so strongly aroused, and quietly
ing the play of the groat crystal fountain before them,
to and fro,. the varie-
the stream of gay company passing
gated effects of light shot through the glittering canopy
overhead, and all the endless colours and forms of a
perspective into which art has gathered her choicest
trophies.
What if this vast collection was destroyed by fire?
Many cities might be burnt to the ground without
causing such a sensation as that would. Yet to that
risk the Crystal Palace was for a moment exposed yes-
terday morning. The flue attached to a gas stove in one
of the offices of the contractors became heated, and
ignited a piece of wood with bunting which rested upon
or touched it. A piece of the burning cloth fell into
a small open cask of Indian corn, which stood, as the
Irish say " convenient." All this mischief was brew-
ing secret in the southern part of the colonial
.
col-
lection on the east side. The drapery of the counter
concealed what had happened, and it was only when
the smoke began to break forth that an alarm was
raised. Fortunately such casualties have been foreseen
and amply provided for. There are no lbess. than a dozen
large fire-engines within the building,
aetshidoerso7halym
supply of water easily obtainable
or-
ganized force ready topleact at a moment's,ae.notiee.. The
fire of yesterday was extinguished before it had time to
do more than slightly char one plank of wood,. and no
anxiety need be caused by
warn an occurrence
It
will, however, wo trust, so triflin,g.
the building to be on alert,
chance. The Executive Committee all
ittee continue to receive
all kinds of applications from the country with reference
to tne terms of admission when the low prices commence.
Among others several clergymen have written to them
offering to bring up with them all their parishioners in
a grand
a body. Fox and Hen,',erson are contemplating
pudding to be
entertainment of roast beef and plum
given by their foremen and chief workmen to the work-
men from foreigu countries in the building. A general
desire seems felt that every facility bll.ollld be given
to the industrial classes to see end enjoy the magn,
cent spectacle spectacle which their labour hasc creamplate ted. Even
the contractors for th® catalogue
lowing their hands a brief pause to examh
are chronicled to fu-
ture ages by their toil. At present they are selling
about 10,000 copies of the small catalogue per day—an
enormous number when the bulk of the volume is re-
membered. As yet only one portion of the larger work