The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-12 00:00:00

(PRICE 7D.)

perpetual upon a tender of six years purchase.—(Hear, hear.)
T,,is, it will he seen, will he a great benefit to those per-
ms, as it will give them a permanent advantage in any
improvements which they may make on the land, and it
provides against every claim which the Bishop might make
to their disadvantage. The Bishops will stiil continue
to receive the same rent as at present, but they will not
have the power they at present possess of increasing
their claims. This can only be done by an Act of Parlia-
ment, and therefore it will be necessary to snake a❑ Art
inereasing the provisions of the Act which gives the Bishops
the present power of making leases. To those gentlemen
who object to applying the Church property to other pur-
poses, I will merely say that I expect their concurrence in
fsvour of this proposition, that whatever fund may
be raised by these purchases, will be at the
disposal of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) I cannot at the
present moment tell what may be the amount of those pur-
morses in the first instance. We know what may be
the amount if the whole by purchased, for it is stated that
500,0001. is the value to the tenant, and 10,0001.
only to the Bishops.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever may
be the amount, it is evident that the mea•
sure will be of great advantage to the tenants.
Sir, I have now stated the whole of the plan of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers. Ido not mean to say that this is the
only measure that is required with respect to the Church
of Ireland. Ido not mean to say that there are not other

measures with respect to non-residence, with
respect to pluralities,—(Hear,) and for the purpose of in-
ducing the landlords to take on themselves fie payment
of tithes. All these measures must be brought under the
consideration of the House, they will necessarily he so
during the present Session of Parliament; but this i■ the
measure which I now bring forward with respect to the
temporalities of the Church. Sir, I hope and trust this
is a plan which will give general satisfaction.—(Cheers).
I will not detain the House much longer.—(Hear, hear.)
The measure I have proposed provides for not continuing
the scandal of persons holding benefices and receiving
the revenues of a living where no duty is performed
and diminishes to as great an extent as it could possibly
produce the number of the Irish Hierarchy. Sir I would
also observe here, that it does not lay down any abstract
principle. Indeed it was not necessary to do so
for any practical purpose. It was not necessary to
decide whether Parliament had or had not the right
of interfering with church property. As I said
satisfied the practical question might arise what ought to
be done with the surplus ; but Sir, it was not necessary tha
Government should adopt either the one side or the other
in the beginning of my speech, all who thought there ought
to be an establishment at all, would agree that the
Church had the first claim when the claim was

It was not necessary fur them to decide whether
Parliament had or had net a right to interfere
with the property of the Church. The plan I have
now submitted to the House is that which his Ma
jesty's Ministers feel themselv justified in at presen
proposing, and is not meant to preclude Parliament,
or indeed throw any difficulty in the way of i+s
considering of the future disposal of Church
'property, to other purposes than that of the Church.
Parliament may or rosy not take up that subject here-
after. All we have had in view, on the present occa-
sion, has been to submit a practical proposition for a
practical amendment of the law. I will not detain the
House further, but beg at once to move for lea►e to bring
in a Bill to alter and amend the law relating to the tem-
poralities of the Church in Ireland.
Mr. O'CONNELL_I will not detain the House
many minutes, but I cannot refrain from expressing the
great satisfaction and delight which I have this.
evening experienced.—(Loud and continued cheering!)

If I feel it my duty to oppose strongly measures, which,
I think, perhaps erroneously, injurious to my country,
I am as ready to give all lithe little and insignificant support
I am able, torneasures which I think for her welfare.—
Cheers. To this plan of the Noble Lord I can see no
objection, and in its principle carries the seeds
of future amelioration. I would only implore
the Noble Lord to believe that there exists
❑o other class iu Ireiand which wishes to be

placed in the situation of the Established Church, so that
he may put out of his calculations entirely the claims of any
such class. If I may speak on behalf of those who concur
with sue in religious belief they do not compose that class,
and no man would more decidedly oppose such an object,
nor ever will, than myself. The Noble Lord stated the
true principle on which office should be conferred in Ireland
when he stated that merit ought to be the rule by which
it should be conferred, and that the Catholic should obtain
no more advantage over the Protestant ought over
the Catholic. With regard to the Subletting Act
of last year, it has done even more good than the
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FERMIARY 11.

Mr. CHAPMAN presented a petition from Wigley,
for the better observance of the Lord's Day.

Major BEAUCLERK asked, whether it was the in-
tention of Government to propose any reduction in the
duty on malt.
Lord ALTHORP could not in the present state of the
session, give any pledge as to the intention of Govern-
ment on that suhjort.

Major BEAUC LERK then gave notice, that he would
on the Ist of May, call the attention of the House to the
duty now levied on malt, with the view of proposing either
its reduction or repeal.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the adjourned de•
bate on the sessional orders was further adjourned till
Wednesday next.
REPORT ON THE ADDRESS.

Lord ORMELIE appeared at the bar with the Report on
the Address.

Mr. LANGDALE begged to call the attention of the
House to a subject in which he felt deeply interested, al-
though he was afraid, in doing so, he might trespass some-
what on the regular order of the House, by referring to
what had occurred in a former debate. He could not,
however, in justice to himself or his constituents, who had
sent him there to express their opinions, avoid entering
his protest against an lion. and Learned Member's (Dr.
Lushington's) interpretation of the oath, as he understood
it was taken by Roman Catholics. As he was of that per-
suasion, he felt it a matter of the greatest importance
that the House should come to the most perfect
understanding of what was the meaning of that oath.
This was of the greater urgency, as he had seen from th,
public papers the question had arisen more than once.
It would be grating, indeed, to the feelings of any indi-
vidual to be reminded, when stating his opinions upon
any subject matter that came before them, that he had
taken an oath against it. He was persuaded there
was nothing in the character of a Roman Catholic that
would justify any Member of that House in insinuating
that he did not pay attention to his oath. He was a
Catholic, but out of a constituency of a thousand, there
was only one Catholic in the borough he bad the honour
to represent. It was important, therefore, particularly to
him, that he should not be placed in a false position,
and that it should not be thought a Catholic could not
vote as independently upon all questions as a Pro-
testant. When he said all questions, he meant
questions of property, for, unless Catholics could
vote upon the question of the temporalities of the
Church, they could not vote upon questions relating to
Corporations. If there were any Member of the House
who thought that a Catholic was not as free in his con-
duct in this House as a Protestant, it was his duty
to come forward and state the grounds of his opinion.
His Majesty's Ministers had advised the King to recom•
mend to this House the consideration of the temporalities of
the Established Church ; but if Catholics were not competent
to take that subject into consideration, neither were his
Majesty's Ministers, for when they took office they made a
declaration equal in force to the oath taken by Catholic►
when they entered this House. (The Hon. Gentleman
here read the oaths taken by Catholics, and also the decla-
ration made by Ministers ou taking office.) As regarded
the declaration of refraining from exercising any in-
fluence to the injury or destruction of the Pro-
testant Church, they were very nearly alike. He
asked whether he was not justified then in saying
that the Catholics in this House were precisely
in the same situation with respect to the tem-
poralities of the Church as his Majesty's Ministers.
Yet the Hon. and Learned Member for the Tower Ham-
lets (Dr. Lushington) had told them the other evening that
Catholics had no right, in consequence of the oaths the%
had taken, to interfere with the temporalities of the
Church.

Several How. MEMBERS--.." No, no."
Mr. O'CONNELL—I understood so.
Mr, LAN GDALE..The }WU. and Learned 'Member for

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