The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-14 00:00:00

had told the House, that in Ireland there was nothing hut
violent agitation on the one hand, and weakness and pusi'a
lanimity on the other. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man (Mr. Shaw) would excuse him (Mr. Stanley) if he
plainly expressed his conviction, that the evils of Ireland
arose from a narrow-minded political feeling on the one
hand, and from agitation and violence on the other. If
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Shaw) as a
lawyer, was prepared to prove that Government possessed
legal evidence sufficient to convict the party against whom
they wished to institute proceedings, be would, in that
case, admit the force and justice of the accusation against
the Government, of taking a secondary instead of the
first, or principal party. IF, he (Mr. Stanley) repeated,
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would say, as a lawyer,
that he was prepared to do this, then he would admit the
alleged weakness and want of vigour of the Irish Govern-
ment. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had referred
to the dismissal of a Magistrate by the Irish Government,
and arraigned the conduct of Government for that act.
The case was this :—The individual in question had suf-
fered a party procession under his immediate eye, the parties
forming it having about them all the insignia of their
peculiar political and religious opinions, while he must
have known that such processions, under such circum-
stances, were calculated to lead to a breach of the peace.
It was the duty of that Magistrate, as well as every other,
to support the authority of the law, and preserve order in
the district over which his jurisdiction extended. lie
would ask the House whether that was not a case for
dismissal ?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") As regarde-1
the case of the Learned Baron, he (Mr. Stanley) must
again repeat that, in coming to a decision on the subject
—in making up his mind to accede to an inquiry into the
circumstances of that individual's conduct, he bad been
ss much influenced by the speech made by the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Shaw) in the Learned Baron's
defence, as he had been by the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) who preferred the
accusation. The leading charges against that individual
were two. The first referred to the political matter in-
troduced by him in one of his charges to a jury while on
the Bench in Duldin. The other related to his trying
causes of great importance in the county of Armagh.
With regard to the first charge, the calendar was light,
as it appeared it was at this time; he saw no reason what-
ever for introducing any political matter at all into his
charge : nothing in such a case could palliate, far less
justify, such a step. Here he begged he might not he
misunderstood by the House nor by any Hon. Member.
Perhaps it would be found that he differed as much from
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) as
from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Shaw). If
the calendar had been heavy, and if it had been the opinion
of the Judge that that was in consequence of agitation
kept up by seditious and inflammatory speeches, in that
case he (Mr. Stanley) would admit it would have been
excus dale in the Learned Baron to call the attention of
the jury to the fact, that there was a connection between
political agitation and crime. If there had been disturb.
ances in the place, and those disturbances and their con-
sequent crimes had arisen from political agitation, and
the violent speeches of the agitators, it would, in such a
else, have been strictly within the limits of the Learned
Baron, who presided on the occasion, to have traced to
their cause the origin of those disturbances and crimes.—
( Hear, hear.) In one of the charges to a jury of Chief
Justice Bushe, that Learned Judge pointed out the origin
of the disturbances in the Queen's County as connected
with political agitation—which circumstance led to the
Insurrection Act, which deprived the people of their
political privileges. There was nothing more in accord-
dance with the duties of a Criminal Judge—nothing
inure in accordance with the duties of every man possess-
ing influence, than to point out to the deluded victim of
the instruments of agitation, the destruction to which the
agitators were hurrying them.—(Hear.) But was it to he
pretended, that because reference to political matters not
only might with propriety, but ought in strict justice, in
such a case, to be introduced into the charge of a Judge
to a jury, that such matter should on all occasions, or on
slight occasions, as in the instance before the House,
be so iutroduced ? It had been endeavoured to justify
the introduction of political matter into the charge in guess
tion, on the ground t',at in the two last speeches of Lis
Majesty to that House, reference had been made to the
agitation and disturbances which existed in Ireland.
There could not be anything more preposterous than to
plead the precedent of the King's speech in such a case.
There was no similarity whatever between the cases. He
(Mr. Stanley) should deeply regret ever to live to see the
day when the Ministers of the Crown should be afraid of
stating the causes of disturbance, and when a criminal
Judge should shrink from stating the causes of crime—
(Hear)—but it was not to be supposed, from this, that a
Judge was to go out of his way to canvass the question of
the repeal of the union, the measures which the Legisla-
ture had agreed on for the administration of justice in the
Irish Courts of Law, with other topics of a kindred kind.
All this was quite foreign to his duty while sitting on the
Bench. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
O'Connell) would forgive him (Mr. Stanley) if, while re-
ferring to the subject of the repeal of the union, he took
that opportunity of stating that Irish affairs received as
much attention and engrossed as much anxiety to do them
justice in that House, as they would were the object for
which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman so vtdously la-
boured, to be gained.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Shaw) had imputed un-
worthy motives to the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman (Mr. O'Connell) in bringing the conduct of
the Learned Baron before the House.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Shaw) had no right to speak of motives ;
he could have no idea, and had no right to have any,
of the motives which actuated Hon. Members in bring-
ing forward their motions. And here he (Mr. Stanley)
must take the opportunity of stating, that the circum-
stance afforded another proof of the party spirit to which
he had already referred as actuating certain persons in Ire-
land.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Stanley) had nothing to do with
motives—the House had nothing to do with motives.—
(Hear, hear.) He cared not what were the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman's motives in bringing this question
before the House. The question for him and the House
to consider was simply this—whether the charges pre.
ferred against the Learned Baron were founded or not.
—(Loud cries of" Hear, hear.") He would repeat what
he had said before, that the case made out by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman was such as to justify and call
for an inquiry. If such charges were preferred against
an English Judge, filling a corresponding station on the
Bench, and if such a prima facie case was submitted to
the House, the allegations must of necessity be inquired
into. The case before the House was such as to demand
inquiry. The Learned Baron was charged with serious
offences; it was for his friends to prove that they were
unfounded.—(Hear, hear.) As regarded the other
accusation against the Learned Baron, he (Mr. Stanley)
would not say much ; his remarks resp?cting it would
be few and short. The merits of that case were
extremely simple. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
men (Mr. O'Connell) has charged Baron Smith with
having, at the late October Assizes for the county of Ar-
magh, tried fourteen individuals, all accused of serious
crimes, several of them with capital offences, after the
hour of six o'clock, I% M. and that in one instance the
Court sat until six o'clock on the following morning, in
the trial of cases of felony. This was most improper
and unwarrantable conduct ; nothing could justify it. The
ends of justice were in great danger in such a case of being
defeated. The Right Hon. Gentleman was proceeding to
read from a written document the hours at which the
Court commenced and closed sitting on the different days
of the assizes in question, when he was interrupted by—
An IRISH MEMBER, who said he was mistaken as
to the time of the Court commencing on one of the days.
Mr. STANLEY appealed to Mr. Shaw whether he
was not right, as he followed the statement made on the
subject by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman.
Mr. SHAW.—I beg the Right Honourable Gentleman's
pardon ; I made the mistake.
Mr. STANLEY—WeII (as we understood), the mis-
take is only trifling.
An IRISH MEMBER—OnIy of twelve hours. —(A laugh. )
Mr. STANLEY returned—The Learned Baron had,
on one occasion, sat two whole nights. He repeated,
that he could conceive of no emergency that could justify
the trying fourteen individuals, most of whom were
charged with capital crimes, under such circumstances.
He did not even see what could palliate, far less justify,
such extraordinary conduct on the part of Baron Smith.
The case must be inquired into. The Judges of Ireland
would believe him (Mr. Stanley) when he said, which he
d,d with all sincerity and from the bottom of his heart,
that he was most anxious to see the authority of the law
and the Bench upheld. To do that the inquiry demanded
in this case was indispensable. It was with the intention of
upholding the authority of the law, and asserting the
rights of justice, and not with the view of countenancing
or encouraging aeitation in Ireland, that he (Mr. Stan-
ley) consented to an inquiry. It was in order to convince
the II i-la people that the interests of justice should be as
much attended to in their country as in England, that he
said a case was made out which warranted inquiry.
Sir R. PEEL said that the Right lion. Gentleman
h id insinuated that the Learned Baron was actuated by
political feeling in the matter which he had introduced in
the charge to the jury in the instance before the House.
He (Sir R. Peel) could see no evidence of such political
feeling. He knew of no man less liable to the charge

than Baron Smith. He was a man of liberal opinions on
poll hail subjects. lie bad uniformly been the friend of
Catholic emancipation. He was the friend of Burke,
and had long corresponded on liberal subjects with
that eminent individual. Mr. Burke had repeatedly
complimented him for his liberal opinions. He (Sir
Robert Peel) must say, that during the six years he
had resided in Ireland (and during all that time
he was intimately acquainted with the Learned Baron),
he never knew a man more anxious to sift every case
which came before hint in his judicial capacity, to the
bottom ; and whenever there was anything that was
doubtful, or in favour of the prisoner, to give him the
benefit of it.—(Hear, hear.) The Learned Baron was
not charged with corruption.—(Hear.) Such a thing
was not even hinted. If there ever was a man purer thrin
another in the administration of justice, he (Sir R. Rd)
believed that Baron Smith was that man.—(Hear.) In
these circumstances, then, the question for the considera-
tion of the House was, whether a case had been made out
which warranted inquiry. He (Sir R. Peel) would flirt
advert to the other matter referred to—that of trying
certain prisoners at the last October Assizes at un-
seas mable hours. This he would say, and he begged to
impress it on the House, that if they consented to an
inquiry in this case, they would establish a most dangerous
precedent.—(Hear, hear.) Similar plausible cases would
he made out in abundance for arraigning the conduct of
Judges.—(Hear, hear.) If such a precedent were only
once established, they might pass as many laws as they
ple•sed for securing the independence of Judges; but all
those laws would be ineffectual ; that independence
would be nothing better than a phantom.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") Judges would, in such a case, have no
security fur their seats, and the interests of justice
would he deeply affected by the circumstance.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, bear, hear.") Certain charges had
been preferred against the Learned Baron last session, but
those had failed to he subitantiatel, and now he was
charged with introducing political matter into one of his
charges to a Jury. The House ought most carefully to
avoid instituting any inquiry on other than the most sa-
tisfactory grounds. Supposing that an inquiry were per•
mitted, and it were found that the Learned Baron had
been guilty of some petty irregularity—some trifling fault
inducive of no mischief, and wholly distinct from any
moral turpitude—would this warrant an address to the
Crown ? Would this call for the censure of the King
and the Parliament, or the removal of the Learned Ba-
ron ? No ; but at the same time it would be a most dan-
gerous precedent, and a degrading insult not only to the
individual, but to the whole Bench. Because the Learned
Baron might have sat a little later than usual, was this a
sufficient ground for bringing him under the rod of Par-
liament ?—( Hear, hear.) Suppose it should. appear that
the calendar of the Armagh Assizes in question was fuller
than usual, and that in addition to this, the holding of the
following Assizes was named for an early period ; and
should it appear that the Learned Baron's anxiety not to
de.ain the prisoners longer than necessary had induced him
to commit this mighty irregularity, if it, indeed, were one,
of sitting a little later than was customary, was this
ground sufficient for bringing the Learned Baron over
from Ireland to take his trial before a Committee
of that House, like a criminal—to degrade him to
a position from which, whether the Committee found
him guilty or innocent, it would be extremely difficult, if
not impossible, for him to rise to the honourable and un-
impeached name he hal hitherto enjoyed ? The mere fact
of such an inquiry being permitted by the House would
be an imputation from which the Learned Baron could
not recover. At any rate, if they were determined to
press this charge against the Learned Baron, let it be
brought forward in an open, regular, and constitutional
manner. Let the exact charge he definitively made out,
and let the accused person be impeached before his Peers,
before the House of Commons itself, and, if found guilty,
be dealt with accordingly. In short, let the same impar-
tial course be adopted in the case of the Learned Judge as
would be adopted with reference to an English Judge. He
(Sir R. Peel), however, was far from thinking that there
were any grounds for proceeding in this matter at all.
The charge against this le trued individual, which had
been dropped last session from its utter weakness, and the
absence of any sufficient evidence to support it, was still
weaker this session, and the means of getting at the truth
of the matter touch more inefficient. As to the charge of
introducing political matter, why it was admitted on all
han le that at times it might be proper to introduce such
matter into judicial addresses, on occasions where local
crime was occasioned by political agitation. What,
was the House to prescribe to Judges the geogra-
phical limits of their advice or warnings? When
the whole of the surrounding country was under the
dire delusion of political agitators, was a Judge to
he restricted from warning those immediately around
him against those delusions? Was it not better that
the Learned Baron should warn those whom he addressd
against the causes, rather than wait and have to punish
them for the effects ?—( Hear, hear.) And at what time
was this address delivered ? Was it not at a time when
the House of Commons itself bad introduced a Bill, which
suspended and paralyzed all law—(Hear, hear)—putting
into the hands of a military court the liberty, if not the
lives of the people of Ireland ?—( Hear.) He himself had
voted fur that Bill because he thought there was a stern
necessity for it, and because he wished to deliver Ireland
from the fatal errors she was led into by the instruments of
agitation, and he should anything but blame tire Learned
Baron for his promotion of so beneficial a purpose as the
warning a deluded people from the pernicious snares of
those instruments of agitation.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) had laid his
greatest stress upon a passage in the Learned Baron's
speech, upon which, however, that Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had put an altogether erroneous construction.
He had set forth to the House that a passage in the address
represented the Roman Catholic body in Ireland as a
body embracing neither the property, rank, education, or
respectability of that country, but as being merely its phy-
sical force and vulgar numbers. He (Sir R. Peel) would rest
this point upon the single question of whether the Learned
Baron really did make this assertion. Did he really in-
clude the whole Catholic body in this sweeping position?
No, he did not. It was neither fact nor probability. The
Learned Baron was not the man to pass this degrading
opinion of the Roman Catholics, whose claims, on the
contrary, he had heartily supported; and, indeed, was
himself descended from a Roman Catholic family. The
House too, he would repeat, should recollect that the
Learned Baron delivered this address at a time when all
law was at an end in Ireland, owing to the political agi-
tations which the House had felt itself imperatively called
upon to suppress by a measure of unprecedented and uncon-
stitutional harshness; and surely an administrator of the
law in such a country, was called upon, he would say, to
lift his warning voice against the causes which produced
that dreadful defi ince of all law, and that suspension of
the payment of tithes, a suspension which even the Govern-
ment itself was inadequate to remedy. In another part of
the address, it was complained the Learned Baron had
expressed his fear of the disinclination of the better orders
of the neighbourhood to interfere in preventing agitation ;
and of their being too great an appetite fur rash
innovation which acted as an inducement upon those
who should know better than to countenance not only
tithe petitions and so on, but petitions for a repeal
of the Union. Why this was no more than bad been
intimated oftener than once by a Cabinet Minister, and
one Member of the House (we understood the Hon. Baronet
to say) was reputed to have urged an assembly of Irishmen
"to be up and stirring, and to get up the war of Repeal
Petitions." When the Learned Baron then said that the
House of Commons itself had been nnder the necessity of
placing the property, and even the lives, of the people of
Ireland under the control of Courtsmartial, when he
said that tithes were only to be raised at the peril and
risk of blood, when he had reason to fear that agitation
of repeal petitions would produce similar disastrous
results; and when he heard that Ministers had expressed
their determination to resist the repeal of the Union to the
death, was he wrong in giving the people warning against
such petitions? Assuredly not. The House was discus-
sing this question at a time when his Majesty had thought
it incumbent upon him to express his regret and indignation
at the attempts made to excite the people of Ireland to
demand a repeal of the Union ; and at those instigators,
many of whom, while observing the forms of law, were
using their endeavours in an underhand manner, to pro-
mote agitation ; and the House of Commons had made a
responsive address, deprecating the attempts of agi-
tators, and exhorting all loyal and well affected
persons to unite in vigorous exertions to put down
this system of excitement and violence. Such
were the declared sentiments of the House ; yet one
of the first proceedings of the session was an attempt to
bring Baron Smith before a Committee of that House,
for having endeavoured to promote their pacific views.—
( Hear, hear.) What would be the inference drawn by
the people of Irel and from this glaring discrepancy between
the words and actions of the British Parliament ? Why,
the natural inference would be, that repeal was not so ab-
horrent to their notions as they had made out, and the
cause of that measure would thenceforth be considered a
triumphant one, notwithstanding the declaration set forth
in his Majesty's speech that this was a subject which ex-
cited his just regret and indignation !—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PRYME said that good cause had been shown
for granting the inquiry. As to the Learned Baron's
liberal sentiments baying been approved of by Mr.