The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-14 00:00:00

l'ee„rlar; Y, It was admitted by the whole house to be due to the lions of a particular nature had been made to him (Sir J.
geenntniegins.aorfi honour and justice togrant that hon. and learned Searlett)• He denied that he had been at all influenced
a committee of inquiry. He (Mr. H.) con- against the hon. gentleman. Let the documents be sub-
Raste ded teat it was the same in his own ease, and that it matted to the house, and if an erroneous opinion had been
clue to the feelings of honour and justice td. giant hitie come to he would be the first to retract any erroneous
t-Le°rnmittee df inquiry. It Was dee td the character. Of °Pine:see he might beve formed. He had not personally
mute
house itself. He was
.e.preient a Member 6f a edlei- len,* the honourable, gpvtiriTA:i ; but he had known a
, iitetee of that hddse in-estigating Circiiiiigiaiieci which in • gentlerain in the toted ef Ise-4es ;Zile we', eormeeted with
i6,',ed millidne Of money, and with what propriety could he him by marriage ; from that gentleman he had redeieed a
;'-' Itt judgment in such a committee while branded with letter asking him (Sir J. Scarlett) to use his influence to
,liiteli injurious, though unjust, imputations? He had sat have him called to the bar. Sir Samuel Shepherd was
hetlutt house for sixteen eears, and had eNnreseed hii (Vie ; the Attorney-General. He got him a letter to Mr. Welsh,
~)°h's Willi fraiitnees and stith NiCries, althiiiigti, Oiliapl, I d o:ntierian of the highest honour and unblemished cha-
in racter, a Whig in principle, and tele' whose 13.olitics could
-3,t in a manner calculated to attract much sympathy in
rion with him ; and he appealed to the house if, during not have made him hostile to his interests. The benchers
to,,t Period, he had on any occasion conducted himself in a heard the case, they heard his own evidence, they listened
lti•'!.lr. deepgatery to the character of a gentleman. to his own speech, and they rejected his petition to be
called to the bar. Mr. Welsh regretted the necessity im-
Ce Lear• ) These nineteen hOnmirable men, howefer, hail
yeewed that he was not fit for the society of
he
; pdeed Upon him; but lie concurred in the general decision.
aleshould like very much to know what right barristers Oil tof respect, to the flee gentleman's feelings the bench
to arrogate an exclusive title to that elnaracten, and said if he vHtintreye his application they would think no
te eitY it to attorneys ? He Was not aware that the ifiOr6 epee the bubject i they veotikl bury the entire
days of barristers in general stood so high. In con- ! action in silence. The hon. gentleman took tit° days to
st,,,.!ing their causes theyb frequently expressed their consider of this ; he consulted his friends, and the result
111;le,'etY to keep persons out of the court. The effect of • was that he said he would appeal to the judges. He did
i‘. anxiety, however, was very unfortunate, for it so so ; he had had eminent counsel, and he felt assured if the
the tied the it etae by follifeenie their edifice that all . eve lice before the benchers had been successfully im-
-01 r ilienis got into court. (A laugh.) The moral Paclied tilts etittrt would have ordered a fresh inquiry.
tbaracter of an attorney was of much more importance But evidence had not been cdreplained of. Mr. Brougham
hae that of a barrister. The barrister lived alone in his . and Mr. Denman were heard at great /etigth 1 but the
Oelualr'bers, where he might commit what grossness or judges decided that the award of the benchers was rigid,
th-Tnity he chose, and had no direct communication with and recorded their high approbation of their conduct for
4- Indiidttals whose caese he was called upon to advocate, the care they had taken of the honour and dignity of the
k;',.(nrney, hoeYeeer, mdst he a Men of delicacy and bar. He ( Sir J. Scarlett) had the honour of being one of
tr 0„,...,. eendiscts He Naas consulted iri private; he Wee in- 1 those benehere. They had all since gone to the grave
the,,e, with deeds and other valuable documents. So far, ' except four ; but he would confidently refer back to the
to „„-e;°re, from assuming any superiority, barristers ought time, and in his conscience say that their decision had been
the7eavour to bring their character up to a level with I right.
peninef attorneys. (A laugh.) The absurdity of com_ I Mr. HARVEY would say a few words in explanation.
pass g an attorney who wished to be called to the bar to I He denied that Mr. Welsh had voted against him, and he
stet: certain interval of time in perfect idleness was mon- ! could produce a letter from another bencher who declared
his frees• Suppose ae apothecary were prevailed upon by Ihe had been no party in the award. So much, then, for
ion nds to give up his one-horse chaiee to obtain a ! the candour of the hon. and learned gentleman who had
regtaeand to,keep e carriage ghat *mild be said tif a ' made the statement just heard before inquiry. (Hear,
as a -e'en ;',liicli should prevent him from being admitted hear.-7 The proceedings before the judges had been ap-
lon4"nysieian until he had suspended his medical practice . pointed for Friday, but he had not the certificate of the
. eery ? Nis to forget all that he had known as an apothe- benchers' proceeding's b.efore. Thursday night--sit hours'
role for 'ln attorney must have take his name off the time of grace. In the interim they had trumped up many
le.ith r three years before he could benl-iermitted to enter fresh charges without consulting him. There had been
'bt th,?4ideti. ceeness into the courts and become the rival nineteen gentlemen at first sitting in judgment, but they
- e isractssing barristers. There was another reason had dwindled down to eleven • but of the eleven some had
, Ith„ ,
1,;_: the noble lord opposite ought to support him in been so engaged that they only partially attended; three
r demand for an inquiry. The honourable and had only come twice ; some were so engaged that they fell
lamed member for Norwich had declared, in his exceed- asleep. Some he inquired from why they had opposed,
tiTy kind speech, that there were riot Nineteen honourable but they had told him they could not say, but still they
(„"el in the kingdom, whd, if they knew the facts of his opposed him, and such was the Court which the hon.
th`Or. Harvey's ) case, would not decide against him. Why member for Bury had so much praised. Let the house,
at was a libel on the Lord Chancellor of England. Mr. however, hear what Mr. Chitty, one of themselves, had
ti.euleham had been his counsel in his first struggle with said upon the constitution of the Court. He said although
tole_, benchers. After their decision, he (Mr. Harvey) had there was an appeal from the benchers to the judges, still,
tite Mr. Brougham that he was placed in a very awkward as many of the judges were benchers, it was only an ali,cliatt)ion, by having given up his profession as an attorney, appeal ab eodem ad eundem, and that there could be
thtt
iLthen having been refused admission to the bar, and no successful prayer. (Loud laughter.) The judges
thoeght ef practieihe see h - es a COtiVeyancer. "Am I," dined with the benchers. They were almost one and
en .e to Air. Brougham, "at liberty to refer any one to the same body. As to what had fallen from the ho-
eel, if Ido ~ „
ee_, so ? The more the better," was the an- nourable and learned member for Norwich, there was
of' " for I think you have been very badly treated." no end to what he asserted, excepting the limits of his
vhee_ar, hear.) Before Mrs Brougham had been Lord imagination. (Laughter.) He knew the astuteness of
. teeTeellor 24 hotirs, lie Milt for him (Mr. Harley) to his mind and the extent of his skill; but even they should
.. I notsse of Peers, and there he received him very kindly. not daunt him. He had published his case, it was true,
Ssei.wish (said the noble and learned lord) to make you and circulated three hundred copies among the members of
I eonsetarY of the Charity Commission ; not only because the house. It was as large nearly as the report of the
eaoseifier you
as peculiarly fit. for the situation, but be- poor law commissioners. But how many had been read?
you e_v wish to show my opinion of the treatment which He feared not scarcely more than twenty. On looking
aee receivedin being refused admission to the bar." into the title page hon. members would
Harvey;sa " Oh, Harvey
leistsecutlylY the noble and learned lord's Secretary was again and Scarlett ! Searlett and y ; oh, we'll none
Peiere eh" t° write to the Treasury to that effect. The of it." (Hear, and laughter.) In fire, he was glad
- ''neehot afterwards determined to chane the ap- that the hon. and learned member concurred in the amend-
nttnent t
tPlAied t ° that of solicitor to the commission; he then ment for inquiry.
vey)ll_,o the Treasury on the subject, and he (Mr. Har- Sir J. SCARLETT would still assert that Mr. Welsh
to mr.an., seen a letter, signed " Edward Ellice," written had voted against the hon. gentleman. The hon. member
in the Mauls, the solicitor to the Treasury, who was then for Dublin said no twelve men could agree to the decision.
''rease''''u'itry, informing him, " that the Lords of the If so lie would most gladly retract his previous opinions,
t° the rY had that day appointed Mr. Harvey Solicitor and give the hon. member the full benefit of his conversion.
(Ale e,calluarity Commission, and desired to place him The motion as amended was then agreed to, and the
Am see le) in communication with that gentleman." following Select Committee was then appointed.
. tees, .Y did he not obtain that situation ? Be- O'Conneil, D. l'hillpotts, J. A ttWOOtl, M.
that he letter had been received from Mr. Maule, stating Abercromby, Right Baring, A. Robinson, G. IL t tie
Spankie, sergeant Evans, Colonel
Hon. J
',Lige look not a proper person to hold it. Now let the p • Sir C. Leonard, T. B. Bulger, E. 1..
dare,at the meanness of his accusers. They' did not FeePrgYsgisson, K. C. Agilonby, H. A. Pryme, G.
k ..0 fa.,
had ,o, ,e a parliamentary inquiry into the subject. Why Peel, Sir H. i enntson, C. Grote, G.
corded ' the hon. and learned member for Norwich se- Horne, Sir W. Tyrrell, Sir J. Roche, W.
th ii the . , Sincair, G. Lloya, J. H. Wilks, J.
e co„, Motion .He (Mr. Harvey) cared not of whom Peel, Colonel J. Jervis, J. Hill, M. D.
ennittee were composed, provided they were honest Hume, Joseph Dare, Hall Haleomb, JAc not selected by the hon. and learned gentlemen. ll..rdinge. sir H.
h t!!' he found that he was denied admission to the bar. Sir. J. SCARLETT then moved
t:„,"bt to the Court of King's Bench,
_and claimed to be before the Select Committee so appoi,
it :utrtitted asanattorney. To be re-admitted, however, relating to the case of Mr. D. W. Har
el;i4e necessary that his name and intention should be put viously been laid before the benchers of
he ar a whole year, and that a special application should —Agreed to.
havr.'l, ade upon the subject by Counsel. This circumstance CAPITAL OFFENCES REPEAL BILL.
fitto;iing attracted the notice of the secretary of a society of Mr. LENNARD, in rising to move for leave to bring
Itaa eY,lte called a meeting of the society, by which it in a bill to repeal so much of two acts of the reign of
unini
existed t he
determined that no objection whatever George IV. as related to the punishment of death for cer-
tifier:ere ?tne 01r. H.'s) re-admission. As a further tee- fain descriptions of theft, and that so much had been al-
victual's' e held in his hand a letter signed by 290 indi- ready done in mitigating the penalty of death for some
Zliole ,constituents of
.his at Colchester, who had read the offences, and the general propriety of the principle so fairly
te "Pres d Nidence in his case, from beginning to end. established, not only by the dictates of reason and hu-
lin tesuiste
etheir. indignation at the flagrant oppression, manity, but by the testimony of actual experience, that his
eel been ,i_ch' Political and personal motives, of which he task in the present instance was neither a difficult' nor a
' ill ee,.`ae victim, but the only effect of which had been tedious one. All the evidence since the partial abolition
writer "ass the number and attachment of his friends. The of the punishment of death went to show that the number
the ben declared that they considered the resolutions of of committals had decreased, whilst the number of actual
tieatiene"re to be of no weight • that they trusted an inves_ convictions, and, consequently, the practical efficiency of
P 4144; °I the ease would be entered into by a reformed the law, had materially increased. It appeared from the
returns which he held in Isis hand that the number of The talentse and that th felt grateful for the integrity
mittals for offences, of robbery, &c., in London and Mid-
ee(tle ibvehnicehhehe
leavehdad.eYeedvintced as th ir representative..
hime no locus Beni- dlesex, during the three years from 1827 to 1829, was
theci:ce' 11() hack-door )to escape 672, whilst in the three subsequent years, 1830 to )833,
efrorntheir condemnation—
the committals were 618, being. a decrease of 54.
.0n the ‘v're trel" atid penalties were to fall heavy on him—
other hand, the convictions during the former period had
excuse th'erni, his honour, and. to. ruin his character No
then if he,-Luruitted--no palliation they allowed. Surely,' been 382, whilst during the latter period they had
been gui y, they should have
has"at sve, had b 'lt • considered
- -.Pathbeen 387, being an increase of five. There was only
one other particular offence to which he begged to
th bee, Y was due to youth ; that the faults alleged to
draw the attention of the house, and that was forgery.
thee' were
reeTtnitted were the faults of early life; that
at chant deemed by the practices of after years ; and It had been stated, that since the mitigation of the
punishment for this offence the number of cases had been
, eel betwe' aud Christian benignity should have inter-
th's life hatiet!' him and the stern mandates of their rules. found to increase. Such was not a true statement of the
h e senate been one of active exertions ;he had looked to fact. Under the former state of the law the number of
e tete ).country as the reward of his exertions ; convictions in England and Wales were fifty per cent. ;
ens fo ad the
„. high hono'ur of being a member of Parlia- now they were sixty-eight per cent. ; and in Lon-
thei:l,d, arn'"datny years ; his conduct had been before the don and Middlesex alone, whilst the convictions were
Demo 0 the world's verdict he would look. Should formerly only thirty-three per cent., they were now
'tellers
ruin not
, , then, shut their eyes to all that? Should seven,ty-four per cent. He thought that these facts were
e hf,,,'.ave paused, before the, had sought wholly to sufficient to warrant him in asking the house to lend their
4Pors °f youth.
'.. Age might have thrown the shield over the assistance in revising the state of the law in reference to
ere e, douth. But he (Mr. H.) required not such the offences he had alluded to. (Hear, hear.)
1,,,1ia,V, he had done nothing which he was afraid or Lord HOWICK believed that the gradual mitigation of
'lig „,"1 to disavow, nothing which he would not do again. the criminal law of England, which had of late years been
Illietti'eme life he was anxious should be scanned ; let every introduced, had produced gratifying results, not only on
note . ~Particular be surveyed ; let him stand or fall by his the score of humanity, but of public expediency.
eite' "et let them alone be brought in judgment against The motion was then agreed to.
whichliet him not be made the victim of accusations CIVIL BILL COURTS—IRELAND.
tey e denied, of charges which were as monstrous as Mr. LITTLETON said the bill which he now proposed
he hoeere fails,. He besought hon. gentlemen, no matter to introduce was in substance the same as that which had
last session been proposed by the hon. member for Louth,
L:sea to°re„tueir parte, no matter how they might be op-
to whom all the credit of its enactments were due. He
-:, to dil-h-; , ti matter upon what side of the house they
(Mr. Littleton) had been requested to take the bill under
czti-n,:ty, °
nekin matter
to adopt the benignity of Chris-
' - they to --eY the •' • injunction,-,, do unto others his charge on the present occasion, and he would very
le ey woot,,
1%.. e divine to
brieflystate that its provisions were compiled with the
them "L wish to be done unto them." (Hear, hear.)
sheet again• • threefold object—first, to regulate the nature and amount
toni do j„ . , he would say, examine his conduct ; let
th n, Tatiee to him. By 't they would be doing justice
i of actions ; secondly, to regulate the administration of
AI:, iese'ves. (Hear,'h assets and legacies ; and thirdly to facilitate the obtaining
kelee "'CONNELL made some) remaek, which was in- of probates of wills and letters of administration. The
e, ein the gallery right hon. secrtary concluded by moving for leave to
in so SOLICI '
,so I.___. TO R- GENERAL commenced speaking bring in a bill toe extend the jurisdiction atid regulate the
etiee lout a tone that his observat* proceedings of the Civil Bill Courts, etc., in Ireland.
is "rfectly heard. H onsidereir hs sometimes were most P
, e said, that
(..„
Colchester
e c
eeeeoer for Colchester should hay the hon. Mr. FITZGERALD most heartily approved of the bill
es'red, in order to remove to puirigeehtlioiseif,
e every investigation he proposed to be introduced by the right hon. secretary, as
st,:'Y charges made against l'iim. from the one calculated to be beneficial to Ireland.
bee' investigation going forward, but tl'ide no objection to Mr. O'DWYER said a few words in favour of the bill.
a all an'
den called upon to go into it. Nothing had, had not Mr. SHEIL also approved of the general principle of
. however, the bill.
that asked which the house could grant
to Abrfitnegr ai
nfetseb•owb-oirllds. from Mr. LEFROY, leave was given
'1,14: Why bad not the hon. member for
thes t °
for "'ember for Colchester himself conic down ~.(4, 1),•••_ .
.. and asked DUTY ON BRICKS.
; tie mission to call evidence to the bar to rebut the case Mr. PEASE 1 for leave to br• g' a bill for the
ftf,sgee prosecution? The house, he was sure, would not repeal of th d t m"be'• •k • but he &din- itn -• h't t tak
uy on re. s , i no wis i o e
w°ele tne request. (Hear.) Nay, he was confident they effect till Mt;
lire n... n. i rt. y next.
inber . k [war. ) If such a motion was made the hon. Lord .A.LTHORY op osed the motion. He questioned
stead
of %ould have his support. (Hear, hear.) But in- if the house would -13 this ..
• 1 ed •
e'entre. tieing so he had attacked an establishment of the even if it had determinedons ont tao
reductionfortrartuarr
ofuctioan,
'bell he', and therefore he the Solicitor-General) felt him- tion.—Motion withdrawn. -
eetl
in ed to
_, I._, oppose him The entire course pursued had SABBATH OBSERVANCE BILL.
he there ' eu rnost extra . cl.
or. may. One hon. member had Alr. POULTER obtained
leave tobring inbill to
a give
ther had b ' tending effect to the '29th Charles
in
e 1„.,„. een no individual case, another eon
the Sabbath es 11., as regards the observance of
analof"'; He could make y llowance for the feel- •
Lena' n tne hon. member f ever
a His were per- REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, or Colchester. MARRIAGES,
'esid;nes, and conse taken into AND DEATHS
Sued gyration. ratio __ quently were to be duly
Mr. BROUGHAM rose to m .
o. He had co 1 •
Ti4i:vetit into a w Imp wiled of grievous wrong,
a bill to insure the general registratione for leave to bring in
‘eCoed, not of ii•staternent in his defence. He com-
H had originally intended to include of births and deaths.
It 1- `"ae the houseiln, but he did of other hon. members.
He
t• nof marriages in this bill a provision for the
t_ m... 0 . to do? Was it to proceed in the dark ? registra io
._ , but was the
by
•'' tsnt knowledge of the facts stated. (Hear. ) In jus-
'ne th the introduction of the measure of the noble lord (Russell).
fr earl , e hon, member himself he said so. Much had, had objected to
The dissenters, however,. . the noble lord's
°ln hi,ren heard of his case, but that much had come
esse bill;
Ipr 0,,,1L j Hear. ) Why not move ? and rendered it necessar h
the established church, y t at they
::4'etl `'(3-L'i NELL would interrupt the honourable and should pay the certain fees. These objections might Iss
eule ,Renderoan He nreasonablethought it might be
Inlend 'nest • • uld dtle wo aop is suggestionwisedreasnale or u
d • the members of the Church hot
v re embody his words. He would move as an afore house, an in
este. Cat
all
. ..
whether it would not be better for all
Dan t.e all at a select committee be appointed to in- England, to consider
thantle. w.
ithe
, circumstances respecting the case of parties to have a bill that would not be objneoctteitinvtoolvb the
Arra JERKey, Esq., that- evidence be heard, and dissenters, care being taken that
bt did
of the established
e„ eihee made to the house on the same. outrage to the feelings of the mem. ers.
this , _
felt "I:,N A I,Ttr,seconded Mr. O'Connell's amendment. churcle He had then prepared a bill with
the noble lord
aleteo°,und in ; "RP—After what he had just heard he if the house thought it preferable to that of
dove-e. `0 th Justice to the hon. member for Colchester to and were pleased to adopt it, they could, as it were,
t. 'r J e 'alien
lon • Se, „ dment just proposed. (Hear.) tail it with the Registration Bill which he now proposed
'l' ' not 'ettLETT
.had objected to the .original mo- to bring forward. His Dissenters' Marriage Bill
wools
%it 01l th
14,1 e had he ground that the benchers of the Middle provide that buildings for the performance of the religious
aed ,he , shrunk from inquiry. He denied that they ceremony should be registered ; that the ministers
reeot''e awn denied that he admitted they had acted so ; should be registered as qualified ; that any person
trke,,, (
,7_aled to the house for the verity of his state- so registered must celebrate such marriages with the
eet',.,ner „year) He was far from denying the hon. religious observances peculiar to his own sect ; that par-
seeZ for e„„SY facility which he sought •
__• and if lie then ties wishing to be married might obtain from the justice of
siejse_l a her investigation he (Sir J. Scarlett) would the peace marriage licenses ; and he made no distinction
member
soertl, nto that effect. (Hear.) But he con- between lay and clerical magistrates, because the latter, as
heoglber fo'r ?!1?n. gentleman, some friend of the hon. well as the former, would then act only in the capacity oi
"eers to ester, should move that the report of the civil officers ; and to confirm the power to granthcenses to
thedges should be laid on the table, Allu- lay magistrates would, in some parts, produce great incon-

that there be laid
Lted the documents
vey, which had pre-
the Middle Temple.

vehleito, n Stlffolk, in consequence of the greater pro-
portion of the magistrateir being clerical, it would be neees-
sary to travel 30 or 40 miles to find ri lay magistrate. The
whole principle of his measure would be, to distinguish
between the religious and the civil part of the operation.
The minister was not to celebrate the marriage till a fort-
night after he received the certificate, which was to con-
tinue in force for three months. He thought this a better
security against fraudulent marriages than bans afforded,
the riddles' being often published with fifty or sixty others,
and even where the rtsr!ies were unknown. The mar..
riages having been performed, would be registered ac-
cording to the provisions of his bill. He thought that the
principle on which they ought to legislate for registration
was, to make it as much a civil and as little a religious
ceremony as possible. (Cheers.) He proposed to pro-
vide in every parish, or in every sufficient district in Eng-
land, a civil officer, vtbo should register every birth or
death, and transmit that record to a'superintending officer,
who should have charge of a larger district, and he, at a
stated period, would have to transmit the certificates of the
register from time to time to the central office in London.
It had been objected that the necessity for an officer in
15,000 or 16,000 districts would render the machinery so
costly, that the expense was a serious obstacle to the ar-
rangement. A great number of officers would be required,
since it was obvious that to hare a registry- complete, the
register should only act within narrow limits. The expense
of the machinery would amount to nearly 800,0001. ayear ;
therefore, unless he could exhibit some. device b 7 which
the objects could be attained at far less cost, the question
could not be entertained by that house. The population
of Englandand Wales, according to the census of 1831, was
13,897,187. These were distributed nearly as follows :
Parishes or places con- No. of Persons. Poiinlation.
taining inhabitants. Parishes.
Less than Dm 1 407 averaging 50 95,250
From 100 to a,o 4,77) ‘3'o 054,800
From 300 to 5'•1) '3,121 .100 1,248000
From 50e to 1,000 3,craS —711 t, •,,12(1-,0011
From 1,000 to 10,000 2,567 containing -- 6,1:3 -,:±99
Above 10,000 129 containing