The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-22 00:00:00

MARYPORT HARBOUR.

Mr. BELL obtained leave to bring in.a Bill to amend
and enlarge the powers and provisions of the Act relating
to the port and harbour of Alaryport.
PORT OF LIVERPOOL.
Mr. WILBRAHAM obtained leave to bring in a Bill
for the better paving, lighting, and otherwise improving
the town of Birkenhead, in the county of Chester.
THE CONTINENTAL GAS COMPANY.
Mr, HARVEY obtained leave to bring in a NI to
Brant certain powers to a company, to be called the Con-
tinental Gas Corporation.
MONTGOMERY BOROUGH ELECTION.

Mr. Dyson appeared at the bar with the list of Dlemb rs
who had been chosen as the Committee to try the legality
of the return for this borough :—C. Posser, Lord Hennik,r,
N. Finn, M. O'Connell, Sir F. Blake, P. Taylor, H. W.
liarron, F. O'Connor, Hon. C. Fleming, and two Hoc.
Metnbeis, whose names it was impossible to ascertain in
consequence of the noise in the House.

Captiin GRONOW brought in a Bill for the better
regulation of the market at D afford, in Somerset.
DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY.
Lord ALTHORP wished to know whether it was the
intention of the Hon. Member for Birmingham to perse-
vere in his motion on the subject.
Mr. T. ATTWOOD considered that he stated it to be
his duty to do so.
Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY said that when the Hon.

Member for Birmingham had had es much experience in
that House as he had, he was sure that when a subject of
so much importance as that now before the House was
under consideration, he would not press his motion. He
admitted that the motion of which he had given notice
was of more importance than any that had hitherto
I), en called to the attention of the House, hut in the
situation the House now s•ood, he felt perfectly convinced
that it would not meet from it that attention it deserved,
and which the Hon. Member was entitled to cl dm for it.
EL- implored the Hon. Member, therefore, for the sake cf
his own constituency as well as his, to postpone the mo-
tion till the Irish C'evcive Bill had pissed that House,
REPEAL OF THE DUTIES ON MALT AND
HOPS.

Sir WILLIAM INGILBY considered that the people
of England had as much right to he heard in that House
as the people of Ireland. The motio❑ of which he had
g.ven notice was of no less interest to the agriculturists of
Engl trul, than the Bill now under consideration was to the
people of Ireland. With all due deference, therefore, to the
Noble Lord, he felt called upon to bring forward his motion.
Hiving taken up the question of the duties on malt, be
would say that, in his opinion, it was one of the most
vital questions at this moment that could be introduced to
the notice t.f she House.
Toe SPEAKER asked whether it was the Hon. Ba-
ronet's intention to proceed with his notice or not.
Sir WILLIAM INGILBY said, undoubtedly he did
mean to p rsevere in it.
LORD ALTHORP said he could not ask the Hon.
Baronet to postpone his motion on the same ground that
he isked the H-.n. Member for Birmingham.
Sir E KNATCHBULL felt deeply interested in the
success of tu•e question, hut feared much th.t the agri-
cultural interests of the country would he prejudiced by
the Hun. Baronet persevering in his motion under the
prevent circumstances in which the House was placed,
which would prevent the subject front receiving that con
sideration to which it was entitled.

Sir W. INGILBY could not understand on what
greunds his lion. Friend (Sir E. Knatchlaull) could think
that his bringing forward the question at present with the
Noble Lord's (Althorp's) permission, could prejudice the
interest of agriculture. He leaped hr should, hi the course
of the short time he should take t: e liberty of addressing the
House, make out such a case as would induce the Noble
Lord from his generosity to the country, to takeoff the whole
of this oppressive t ax on the agriculture of the country.
The first !twice he had of the malt tax was in the reign of
William 111., who laid the beginning of the evils of the
c 'untry in the oppression of the malt tax. From that time
d awn to the reign of George 111., the tax had gone
on incleesing till it arrived to that memorable period when
war was directed against the litter ies of France, and when
the tax on malt and the wholesome beverage of Euglish-
men was raised to the enormous sum of ss. a bushel,
or 24 a quarter. Then, in addition to all this, there
were the taxes in the shape of excise laws, which wee.
a system of tyranny and oppression. (Hear, hear.)
In the county of Norfolk, according to the returns, which
he supposed were correct, the barh-y at present was no
more than 20s. a quarter ; but before this barley could
be made into malt and brewed into good beer it costs
upwards of SI. His county was a very large
barley county ; it produced, according to the last re-
turns, upwards of 500,000 quarters of barley a year,
and at this rate, therefore, the tax was moat ruinous :and
oppressive to the agriculture of the country. He hoped
that Government would take it into cons,deration, and
grant them a remission of the tax. Without re-
ferring more to calculations which might be dis-
puted, and which might not lead ultimately to
any exact result, he would only take a view of
this tax, and leek at it in a moral point of view. If any
thing was calculated to brutalize the country it was, in his
opinion, the tax on malt The farmers could not now, as they
were won', brew their own wholesome beverage, and
the servants and boys were driven from their houses to
those celebrated places in modern times called Tom and
Jerry shops, in place of holding company with what, in his
young days, was called the good association of Sir John Bar-
leycorn. He thought it was a duty the country owed to the
farmers of England, to abolish this tax. Almeover, it
was a duty which the country owed to itself ; for there
were scattered over the country a number of beer-shops,
the owners of which were here to-day and there to- morrow,
and who could not command credit enough, when they
were known, to obtain the worth of the six or eight
gallons of beer they got smuggled into their houses ; and
who, their houses being under no control of the magis-
tracy, made them the refuge of all the thieves and
vagabonds in their neighbourhood. He had no hesitation
in saying that, hail tne Legislature set itself to devise the
measure most calculated to brutalize the people, they could
net Lave found any thing more fit for their purpose than
this Beer Ball. With respect to the question of hops,
which still stood upon the notice, he wished to abandon
that part of the motion, for be had had some conversation
with R.- ntleinen Irom the counties where hops were gown,
and they seemed to wish that subject left to themselves.
He knew he could not leave it in better hands than those
of the gentlemen from Kent, from Sussex, and trout where-
ever hops Caine, and would only therefore observe, that if
they got malt duty free, hops would follow as a matter
of course—(Hear, hear ; and laughter)—for without hops
it was impassible to brew good beer.—(Continued
laughter.) When both these objects had been attained,
they might lope to see an end of those pestilential places
the beer-shops, to the haunters of which many of the
firings which had taken place in Lincolnshire could be
traced. In the evidence given btfute a Committee of this
House, in 1828, it was stated that fifty years ago
there was scarce a labouring man in England who
del not brew his own beer.—( Hear.) But now he woulu
say, show him the labourer in England who did brew his
own beer. How dreadful must have been the overwhelming
effect of the enormous taxation which weighed the country
down, that, in the cuurse of 50 years, instead of finding a
barrel of ale in a snug corner in every labourer's cottage,
nut one labourer could be pointed out who had anything
of the kind. fie saw his Hon. Friend opposite smile at
t.ae picture he drew, but he did not think he could con-
tradict the facts he had advanced. No one could have
hat greater experience than he had had of the rural po-
pulation. It was by the friendship and exertion of a
large agricultural class, in a very extensive district of the
country, that he now stood in that House. He had mixed
exclusively for the last six months with the agricultural
populetion, and knew what agricultural distiess meant.
Could his Hon, Friend say that he had had the same expe-
-1 aence ? He sew a tremendous agitation in some parts of the
country. It they did not take care, that agitation would
come into Etigiand.—(llear, hear.) Parliament might
grind the people down to the dust, but the time
would come when the people must have their grievances
redressed. They must have wholesome loud—they must
have wholesome raiment--wholesome di ink—and it
they were to be pulverised by taxation, then would
they begin to agitate, like Irishmen—(Hear, hear)—and
we should have the blessing of courtsmartial established
among us.—(Hear, hear.) It was with this view he was
desirous of pressing the present motion, and he looked upon
this as a subject of the greatest importance, and he ti .d
touch pleasure in committing it to the hands of the
House. He hoped the Hun. Aleneber fur Kent would do his
euty on this occasion—his duty to the subject, and his duty
to hie constituents. He (Sir Willia h) flattered himself
that he should have that Hun. Member's powerful aid, and
not only his, but the aid of every gentleman who
belonged to England, who liked to see his pea-
sant; y living in peace and comfort under him, and, instead
of frequenting ale houses, and Tom and Jerry shop., being
able to drink his own beer in peace at his own fireside.
He moved that the malt tax be repealed, and banded
smell piece of paper to the Clerk of the House.

The SPEAKER having had the piper shown to him,
asked the Hon. Member if he would be so good as read
but motio❑

Sir INGILBY having gone down to the table,
and taken the paper into his hand, read aloud—" Let
the malt tax be repealed."—(Loud !aught r.)
The motion was then amended, and stood thus—' For
leave to bring in a Bill for the repeal of the malt tax."
Major BEAUCLERK wished his Hon. Friend had
told !inn he was this evening going to bring for-
ward his [notion. Fur his own part he was a great
enemy to taxation. The taxation of this country
was grievously oppressive and p aticularly upon
the lower classes of that House—(Grea laughter)
the lower classes or the people, he intended to say:
He was quite sure his Majesty's Ministers intended to ser
as much as was necessary in the way of taxation.—
(Cries of " Hear, bear," arid laughter.) Unless a grew
deal was done in the reduction of taxation, it was
impossible to foretell what the consequences to the country
would be. He was sure the tviioie national establish-
ments were maintained at an exvenditure beyond what the
people could keep up. He thought t at those were the best
trieods of the country, who advocated the reduction of
those establishments, and that was the only course open
to leave the credit of the country unendangered. The
immense weight of taxation under which the country
had been so long labouring, had led to an incalculatile de-
gree of distress ; and of all the taxes that oppressed the
people, the malt tax, in his opinion, was the most op.
pressive. Before the malt tax was imposed, the
people brewed at home ; since this imposition, they had
not been able to brew at home, but had been driven to
have their beer from the great brewers ; and he earnestly
pressed on his Alajesty's Ministers the necosity of

taking off at least this tax without delay. It
was a most unjust tax, not only inasmuch as it pressed
so heavily and so injuriously upon the poor, hut inasmuch
as it Wa• extremely partial in its operation—he meant as
regarded the farmer, because there were lands that grew
barley and corn which would Odd no wheat at all, and
there were lands on which wheat could he rown, and
which could not yield barley or corn. Had he known
the Hon. Member had meant to bring on his motion this
night he would have brought down 101 htters—(Hear,
hear ; and laughter)—which he had received on this
subject from persons of the greatest influence.
cuilopeo,ensektniojeiswssieutnth,ajeetrucet7
‘ia'n'nedrre•ar:fomuasnhyeparpthseatditoifotnisitohue2:cottwiuntit,ria;,:
the motion would have been brought on to night, he would
have brought down with him a great number of letters,
complaining of the injustice of the malt tax.—
Although lie could have wished that the motion had
been postponed, so as not to have impeded the pro-
gress of the Irish Bill, he must give his most sin-
cere and strongest support to it.—(Hear, bear.)
He hoped that if the Noble Lord (Althorp) did not coin
tide in the motion to-night, he would talcs an early op-
portunity of attending to the subject.
Lord ALTHORP stated, that he wished to impress on
the Hon. Baronet the necessity of postponing the motion,
so that the Bill which had already occupied so much
of the time and attention of the House might
not he delayed. The Hon. Baronet was aware that he
(Lord Althorp), in regard to taxation, had made the
sanie statement as that Honourable Baronet bad; and
he believed that, in a very short time, he should
be able to take an opportunity of stating to the
House the view which be tohk of the state of the country,
and the sum total of the estimates requisite for the year.
cTottillattr;vowualds tbneostthaenxbeiosutstitTiee tiot,cuo,nosisdheoruzihiccuht tax the
(Hear, hear, hear.) He should be sorry if the 1-10-
nouiable Baronet should think that he (Lord Althorp)
was acting incautiously in the course which he felt hintsor
bound to pursue, regarding the present motion. But
the tax was one of large amount, having produced
last year no less than four million eight hundred thousand
pounds,—(Hear, hear.) That waa a large amount
to deal with, and the House would do well not to
come to any immediate decision respecting it. The Hon.
Baronet would have ample opportunity of brinzing it for-
ward. He (Lord Althorka) would not ask the House to give
a direct negative in the present motion ; the general course
wis to prove the previous question, but he did not wish
to do that, when his only object was, that it should,
Ike o her motions, be postponed. When the Hon. Mem-
ber for Birmingham (Mr. Th. was Attwood) had
been so much pressed from several parts of the House
to agree to a postpon went of his motion, he (Lore
Althorp) cid not think that his insisting in bringing i
forwaid to-night was very courteous.—(Hear, hear.)
was of great advantage to the House to proceed
with the other Bill, but he would not ask them to
vote for a motion, aye or no, whether the malt tax
ought or might not to he repealed, but he would move
an amendment similar in effect to the previous ques'h
The Noble Lord then moved, that all the words of the
motion, after the word " that" be left out, for the
purpose of inserting these words—" The order of the
day for the House going into Committee on the Irish
Disturbance Suppression Bt 1 be now read."—( Hear.)
Mr. A. BARING assured the Noble Lard that many
persons ou his side of the House admired tie Noble L 'rd's
ingenuity.—(Laughter.) It war certainly desirable that
the House should dispose of the Irish Bill as soon as pos..
; but he thought that the Hon. Member for Birming-
ham had not been treated with that courtesy which he
had a right to expect. —(leo., hear.) In discussing the
various clauses of the Irish 131.1, it was much to be re-
gretted that Hon. Members did riot confine themselves to
the questions immediately before the House, and that was
a cause of a great (hal of delay which had already taken
}dace. Ile considered that the Hon. Member for B
mingham, looking at the importance of the measure which
he tt lobed to submit to the House, was entitled to two al-
ternatives ; either that he should yield to the appointment
of a Committee for the purpose of considering the qu-s
tion, or that he should have some day assigned when so
great and imp Ttant a subject should be brought by h m
(the lion. Member fur Birmingham) before rite House.
In stating this, he dui not wish to be understood as one of
those who thought that the subject was one that ought to
go before a Committee, his impression being that no good
could be done by the adoption of such a course; but be
thought it m. st important to the interests of the empire
at large, that the subject shoul I undergo full dis,•ussion.
Whatever the opinion of the Noble Lord niiht be, no
person could doubt, to the question of the currency, many
both to and out of that House attributed the distre•ses
the country. With respect to the motion of the H n.
Member for Lincolnshire, he wished to m die a few (laser
vations, and in doing so, he begged to be understood by
t,e House that he did not intend to enter into a log dis-
cussirn on the malt tax ; liu when the Hon. Member
talked of disposing of 4,800.000/. of the revenue of the
country, he could nut but consioer that the subject ought
to receive a much greater consideration from the House.
He thought that the H qt. Member bad taken an ex.
tremely narrow view of the question, and one which the
House would not follow bins in taking. He must, how.
ever, oherve that the interests of persons in the country
had not had fair play with the Noble Lord. The ge tie-
men connected with this subject in the metropolitan dis-
tricts had an opportunity of stating their grievances to the
Noble Lord, which those connected with the rural had
not. He very much r. gretted that the Min. Baronet who
had brought forward the motion hail nut adopted a much
more literal course.

Dlr. HUME rose to address his Hon. Friend who had
bought forward this subj,cr, and to assure him that there
was no one in that Honse more disposed than himself to
lend his influence in support of the present motion, but
he feared that it the House now came to a decision it would
be without an opportunity of fairly and properly consider-
ing the question. He (Mr. Hume) had not entertained
the slightest idea that the lion. Baronet meant to bring
forward the subject on this occasion, or lie (Mr. Horne)
would have been prepared with a statement which would
have proved irresistibly to the House the necessity, if not
of abolishing the tax, at least of reducing it to such a de-
gree as would afford immense relief to all classes of the
community. He did not say this merely in regard to the
interests of the agriculturists ; be was anxious that in
any change of taxation the House should consult the inte-
rest of the consumer as well as of those who produced the
barley. He (Mr. Hume) had not collected from the
Hon. Baronet's statement that he had considered the in•
terest of the consumer. Now as far as regarded the
agricultural interest he should vote against the
Ilonoutal-le Baronet's proposition.—(Hear, hear.) His
opinion was that no interest 111 the country had been so
well attended to and protected as that of the agriculturist.—
(Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.") But he would
riot go into that question now, hut merely suggest to the
Hun. Baronet that proper consideration should be allowed
to this question. The Hun. Alernoer then went on to
show by a series of calculations, that the additional duty,
which had been imposed since 1785 on malt, had, not-
withstanding the increase of population, diminished its
consumption. He was inclined to propose that a reduc-
tion of duty should take place, which would not only give
relief to the grower, but also to the consumer, without
losing one farthing of the revenue derived from that tax.
The repeal of this tax would also have a great effect in
improving the morals of the people, and checking that
taste for ardent spirits which the injudicious restrictions
upon the consumption of malt liquor had fostered. 13,fore
the late war the tax on malt only amounted to 10s. a
quarter, but that teas gradually raised to 345. Bd., a sum
which had been since reduced to 265. He saw no reason
why it should not be still farther reduced ; but as many
Hon. Members were not now prepared with the state-
ments they otherwise would be, he entreated the lion.
Baronet not to put the House to the inconvenience of a
division, which, after all, would not really be on the quell.
turn of the malt duty. He(Mr. Hume)did not mind being
in a small division, and would vote with the Hon. Baronet
it he went to a division, as he voted for the reduction of all
taxes, but he entreated the Hon. Baronet not to go to that
extremity.
Mr. WARBURTON should certainly vote for the
Noble Lord's motion, as there were many Members who did
not expect that this important question would really be
brought forward. He should not he di-posed, however,
at any time tia vote for the moo ion of the Hon. Barone--
unless it were accompanied by a reduction of the duty Ott
tOreign barley, without which this tax would simply gum
into the pocket of the Brower of the barley, and not into
that of the consumer.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL entreated the Hon. Baronet to
withdraw his motion. He felt as much upon the subject
as any Hon. Member in that House, but the present was
not the best time for the consideration of a subje tso
impor rant.
Sir W. INCILBY said it was but seldom he took the
liberty of obtruding himself on the House—(Hear, hear)
—and he did not think he was liable to the reflections that
had been cast upon him.—(Cheers.)
Mr. Al. ATTWOOD entreated the Hon. Baronet not
to withdraw the motion which he had brought forward,
which bad not been met on the part of the Ministry with
a spirit which was respectful to the House.—(No, no.)
Lord ALTHORP—In consequence of the attack which
had been made upon him, he hoped he might be allowed ti

Hit he I
very short timu,, and would merely saY ",_. Ha. Wit,
the House, and not to the juds merit of he
..„ssres 0
as to wl ether 'sie had treated the noose
vveltc;'"
there tr::Se
say a few Words. He would detaid tit!ell:you,aela altel r':
The Marquis of CHANDOS Itelie.
ainnithis of the,t'obe
agricultural part of the community,.
Duet had br`lugm 'lr'
of the duty on malt. The Hon. Brone. a
tair, oedi,
question, by notice, before the Hou.sein anoestedi:Yr,
and straightforward motion, which now
tfby
ariside sii,
question conceived to be of greater
niters were only anxious to get rid 0
o rats
yeel,
He was decidedly of opinion
;thePrele'restiaa que's
opportunity to go into this extremely 1 duty . Fr" •:'
of the repeal, or at least reduction of the in vsse:;
little he had learnt of what was going t.'_',_ before ti,
street, they would soon have a propostll7, it woe,
upon the subject of the ass. ssed tases.,:ri"ii. odis,
pr, posed by Government that they 0
es, be, fu
How. ver acceptable that might begener.a , 0,41,1 1
far me, s, on whom the tax fell so heavilyn,ooo thi
claim his attention to the subject, and reeo e
Aft
should press the question. , s. Boos s
Mr. PALMER agreed with the 11".s_ in the v
Edward Knatchtittll), that it would be W.teea_rieptil
Mover, who doubtless had the interest of th
thaSr:eto\Nr.?ortanar,ii
much at heart, to withdraw his motion. 6
11/h:Pt, frith'
who felt on this subject with him. PerhaPitbe od/
season to bring on the motion would he af:: whilto,
when the House and he would be able t° . Le syll'l'
withdrawlNGLßhiYs
nifeolttiohne,
iti•loitideltri
tnii:et
ad e
to pr.
they ought to prefer his proposition or that u
pot lie ',.
An Hots. ;MEMBER,. whose name WaLd vott'l
were proposed to be reduced, and could Jrigiaittte!,
trusted a day for this discussion would be io'
Hon. Baronet agreed to withdraw it. .
__,A it seer,
Lord ALTHORP said he certainly intsgni""Distsble.
wish of the House to proceed with the Irish,,„„ leo' ,
Bill in Committee, in preference to a noticeo.i:lowioo'
8--emed to bins then that in withdrawing 1,',1,e f:';'.;
was acting in accordance with the feeling °I the Ot, i
Sir W. INGILBY withdrew his motio,, mcitie%m
wished to fix its resumption for the 15th ca Arserais
was
The motion then withdrawn, and the 0 " the ',
day was then re id for going into Committee o
turbances in Ireland Bill. 'TO' Ili '
DISTRESS OF THE COO tor the ,
On the question that the order of the day for
floe
resolving itself into a Committee of the fcb°.en he
the Suppression of Disturbances (Ireland) '
read— ota ti°°',ft
Mr. T. ATTWOOD rose to oppose tbe
to • s,
considered it extremely dangerous that the a pill
House should be further occupied in disctrelig, be °,
concerned the English people so very slight Y'oietsle;
therefore bring forward his motion for the 3:P„Pesses ',O
, S. lect Committee to inquire into the 11.•'be are,,c
coutitry. In nuking that motion, it won't' tioae'
for him to recopy for some time the atter),,,etir,
House ; but he promised that he would not tte 'o,olo'
that attention a single instant more than "': a 11;.,
necessary for the consider lion of so ham "'
eta
He could not but deeply reeret that that .' 0000
which so much was expected, should have denes aort.oi'T
was a Reformed Parliament, elected fir
yet to alleviate the distress which svgi :hers,
t troughout the country. The Parliament linty of
promoting the liberty and prosperity °I for 1,
What had that Reformed Par iament don'h:3 it
t,
herty of the country ? Nothing. Whi:tt -:ras ir/
for the prosperity of the country when ‘..d o,besi
assembled for more than nine week.,, 50 , pstlisi
theetie roe
li ins were suff ring, and expected froth 03' 111",
immediate relief? It had done n"rilitiga'llei I,
humble might he his talents, however tin'Y-:0110s1
forts, they should always be emplor d t' 0o tr 4
comforts and the happiness of the pe"Pie: , ceifie.!.
truss cif the country he should have alreai.•eoire w:
number of petitions praying that House t ''ruilif t.
c Luse+ of that distress, and to obtain relief far loon, .
had he not taken pains to prevent those Pe olviO4,
bring transmitted to him, and had he re't bot li'l,
friends in the country to send no petitions; t, liej,
t, ti e consider, tion of a Reformed Pailistairroe hci
s wiry that all his expectations from that L'h- the e- •
been real sed. Toe distress under whit Chap °,'
laboured was greater at the present ti°le jt cvalttt
period of our history.—(Hear, bear.) hoer?
and general, and he called upon aOY , of
great class of the people who were t;°s rbig,..'
miserable. There might he indeed one cif cop'/
not exactly suffering—they were in a state °)culsdre ?
prosperity to-day, but they could not c„,B Pe"
teat prosperity extending hevond the tuorrns'l4ily • /
called the attention i.f the House more PartiCullel'ir,4/
condition of the working classes who were tiore-i.
hack bone as it were, of the coMmunitv. 11: bilt
like the nobility, crested to be mere ~r nanteo; ' IV;
nose who produced al the good things of 119 0i
tress of that class in the years 1816 and I,l3l:oo6'''rei
had as at present; those who laboured wt" -the P.: '
their brows ha i a right to live. It 'we° breseil'..'
curse that obliged them to labour; but strlll t 'al'
Roos of them were denied the rewards "' 00' eu
Lind and Leland. They had formerly
whilst they fully incurred the pena'ty of the bur la f,
state of things .xisted nut only in England, °l;et Our
role • . is'
numbers, but that House had not paid op, hod
attention to their petitions. In the years ot t i
26, and 29, millions of petitions had bee°,ll-, they ,"
petiLOgingle '''
i t,
racsi
ack
ill :
change,
nih
it pr
et:
ra;p
citl
uie
evise,a,hiyenttohteshuavathrei,a)iett.gslierecebtaoOlgetche:leperfibilr:Ao:;;
House, and they met with th- usual fate, I%.'i, ir),4:'
ordered to lie on the table without one tr°l:.e- Peti'
They said that a change was necesaarys--"ths,ge II
loos which so litany happy results weffre:•) V, l'
which, as yet, had produc-d none.---(Oe,J; litt'A" s
as lie was, he would speak the truth, ear;estft'i,
it was received by any party. What be, sed '
that the c ,use of distress should he discover elisl' is.
discovered, a remedy should he applied. °fru/ bet° t
working population toiled with scarcely 15't ail' ie
therotseives, and another had no employrner,ltaif oer I
half were dying by inches, and the other ",. reliveP'
dering front door to door, claiming charitai"e
h or al„elislil
labourer that cultivated the soil, by his 13),°1 1, • h'ee,
, lured one quarter of the produce of it, w-,1.50f t'/6"
l dui of machinery, lie produced four times o'eelf, , tilif
things of life than were necessary for bill° fuse '! j
ungrateful country, when he gave bread t°sofrije
refusedA to him a sufficient quantity t° ~,,,e.,io,
At the present time, working men ec'n'the tor
quarters less flesh meat than they did at the roe,
the war. In the space of fifteen Year9„tol:#l'
lost one-fifth of its powers, which was as Pa} eti,cell''
as if that c tuner y north of the flounce Wh-' oft
thrown into the sea. 'This was the lose t- est the eti
portion of the country sustained, and the
thelose ostei
pfacturin portion ight be es tiated in o
portion.g He had bmeen told but ofm one lust ao, iell h
profit was made still by cotton mill,. 131-t her 0:1,
was ascertained that in deriving the pr°-,- . 10441
capit il. And if profit were to be derived lif°lo,6me'i
could be considered but a left-handed idadothat ihetlit
own opinion was, and he could prove it, re fac:,,i
no profit on any kind of trade or manufaetn° le t:-#1
seven years. Even the moat industrious Pe-Pte,,t,l
iLwiihr:i,n,rnuedktomtnooofmrftorig:::iginote:b:::
were up early, and did not go to rest till
fo'r'd tab ,
laboured most and fared most sparinglY ro hfter ,
Titso
fihnisalkenloo
getting poorer and more miserable. Let t—dueeu osii
to the shipping interest. Was it not raelughtlsV
wse•ledfigi
re
tt:veom- tohritrgdasgoef,stlwieesrlet,il:lo'iningo;ph,roatee:osets;
.asaan'nridadhttethooabstlesseiitpnlaiptetitilh'iogeef 11:asultiioldit3sis:joeatof,::eri:vryapiritocibb-elii,io.l
night fetch. if that was a fact, an", :-..-sif tt's,, le7
colonies. They were running
prove that it was so, he thought that of i‘tisl 0, turf
cuse for inquiry. lie would then beg 0f da,ill 011/0:
the state of the East and West Indies, tin
ow, Or,
rapidly o
wl'i. c vi°ll f
they looked at the state of our poor, ~ svetei
see ? The poor rates were double what tine;f „hie,
tears ago. Double the number of bushel': son' 1
paid weekly to them, that was paid at t, e_ rbe iii:i.
toe war, and it would have been easier to.r.opol'it
England to pay four times as much to tits
isi'l rb, tki
poor as they actually did pay, than it svcesuid. It;
now to pay double the amount they then Fle to
Ludy compare the present state of the Fe`_'_,P,Siats ‘lS'
of a ship who had not one-fourth the pro' 1•040,1,
to carry them to the end of their voYagee;it3bleo'lf
forward to death from starvation as i," 01'1 01
looked with malice and grudging
_ub Iva' bio/.
consumed by their companions. Sucie. 00,ti I,
with millions in this country, who, see eith i-it'
e looked w stirs,'
in see y and starvation belore t..enit e teat aeis
death of their neighbours, in t e
h°rlPA3l)°'il ere,'
party might become their own--(lsttr
,The ,oble 1,.,,,,,
dss e n t trim that propositions.
0f,,.:t b, tol,iisi
his head, and appeared not to believe 1 wiA'
Id he tread ,13,, , ,
(Mr. Attwood) had witnessed, that%you s were dertsf,
its correc,ness. He could say there
.., trs
_JP;
but if the Noble Lord had seen the Id/ sq
and tens of thousands of the manufactur.e.t.erdse,clb
operatives of this country who were actuallYd.ea,din
situation of the sailors hi hei ship, and wil3.
eit 10.tLi '
with the most gloomy forebodings to bid or
iiptcti. He would then ask what they P

Ite
11°"e
e would ieliyer,
he 11')n. d.
ihoelo
,ith any
ed there ,413,
rportarle,l
, this (t t yithe
,t had hr4o4'
in a fair,
appeared
0w
etde it
by a
rut wa9
OtereStilirocit,
duty. milli,
initinn
'
d it ty°
an 040
1); for'
orally, lie,
Lvily, j
ecorameo
•

[on. nareobeti
, wise in.teiN
f the ago,

halo d°!%
per
of
advice
3e_rhan, trr,, D'.4
after to
to ,ee wieshe
juike•aioe
:rat of 31' kol
wa+ o'lo,lo'
be 6%ed

;„ it
e,"
Irish v.-
oo
tice Of n'"1,00
lg h 0
0.. of the
Clon, 310.; 0,
tlio,f 101r3ler
d the ~:ofec'
alittee on

JNIgrIC
day t
whole lic'be 0
:d)

11'107 *Poise for so much misery ? Had they aind fort?, ri.
avers4r? No, they were reduced to such a gates that t Ia
kicked anhl'g to stand will, and allow themselves to he
Th err ataut 1 a a• • by State in Europe.
t pun -tten every
the 7 were Wotanable to look even their meanest enemita in
Ite-a :',,,—(llear, hear.) He had beard that a statesman
tale i,°" . that House, that this country would never .
`^ go to War . • • not a degradation to
1.41,..., again. 'Vas it
He. i'll, When a statesman would venture to rise in that
i
begin,
aria state such an opinion?—(Hear, hear.) n
tow, into the state of the people of this country,
diare,idatheY find them divided ? Into affluent and
,thaeery'n'''6,uo.l. The affluent fundholders, who h ld had
f their capital raised to 901. were
di . „,,AY Prosperous class. The landholders were
ta'er;,"ell their properties had been martgagtd during
ettualarl and those mortgages hail increased so that they
44141),t Ire cleared off, and the landholders were conse•
ID ~,!''l a ,tate of ruin. They could not, therefore, go
Int r• The traders were in a state of ruin, and could
a-,,,P1Y the taxes, which a war would necessarily occa-
totad
aciFhere were, then, none but the fundhnhi.ers who
i
Nue, 4d to en to war, and they would not ; for it. would ..,,t-tati tap''
90/. stock to 60/.—(A laugh.) England
prat
....l'", suffer herself to he kicked about from pillar. to
Etai.e„
,(.A laugh.) Ile thought, that when they ilt;
the 1.1a.1,41 Committees sitting, planning how to get nil n
the
tPlum Population, and Corn Law Committees regu-
it the qaantity of corn to be admitted into tbe country.
oesthitiline to examine into the cause. which rend-red such
!lad 0,-4' inquiries neceasary. He thought that the time
the e,fitn come when they were bound to inquire why, atn
trae,_,,i4 seventeen years of profound peace, they were i
al). ' state than after an equal period of war. He at-
:;,..." it t° the change Made in the currency, and the
k gi"Ment admitted that in that measure they corona teed
Th,v4a.4,tie error, but that it was now too late t retrea
1.,
`estatea.rotted that they had brought the countryy. to suc
e,,,_ by thit measure, that it would nnw he ruin to re.
Attirlin to go forward, and ruin to stand still. He (Mr.
hal
i4n(l) had said the same thing fifteen years ago, and
stilt,iiitet:"ld them at that time that such would he the re-
adtih turd e,ehangc. Even the Hun. Member for Taniwor 1 i
eeith , teat the country was in such a state that it con i
Hat' 4 hear the disea,e nor the remedy for it. After
th,ttgh that much, it was hardly neces•ary for him. ta st
ar
i'l,rtlii:.:Liiqt4yltil::::s9 one which required deliberation and
of dife, At present tire whole population was in .
prospered—the mass of thelabour
delli.le ball class remunerated, and consequently discontent—
al crime, eir;o4l ruin were in the hearts of milli( ns. Mean-
slartair4e• the u ual attendant on misery, increased to iaan.
hour, ng. tigree• But two years ago the agricultural
i4g atiilait! a great part of England were in a s!ate border
Zyttth*reiars3autrrieeacsttill:l;pabiluiat
tit,r,e,e.ii. aii,,,,iy was taeir exci use,
They were ground down
taor,e Mestere, and at last were obliged to
it
was
°,l4lYh'y foe re fress, and he was sorry to say, that . -
..tet, for-(444 that the rople mil,' generally obtain. red to i.tik. their grievanceaP The farmers had been oldige
''4l4ttl I,ahe Wagea of the lahnurera, but how were they
4•n4 tae•' Pay those increased wages? By diminish-
-1 al 'ltrateithlitah The consequence of such a sy.-
tilined l" necessaril b that the farmers w.ould b
Itql• IQ
"hit the wages evi,,,ould again f ell to their f.oerrn.aer.
/tli'llireeriethaPs below it. It might be said that th
while
i.,,"Ye:,;(lh'rvrd punishment for those excesse*, but w
to.
"'ill thea,"'n'd the acts, they (the Members)
t4,lt, stu,'l r,in aee..Unt of their misery ; and they
the it'llttiuei /0 telieve that misery. If, then, labbourers
ought,,naht to
~e, iaitl to break the law they ought
he
'O ' hot to I Speaking of crimes, .
beat got h , )5 punished. tkad
rata e 11) illuilingno longer to
C''ttil' Lngland ; atnotitire could tell of
bil eeirGi::,ilieevveilro'noetmhetin'irnet
allirY-oef'tllew'Y to diulini'h crime
7as,issyible to prevent
4;4 Where ,people. It would he imp
ar i'44„et
tape misery was so great as it at present was
Ittge it, t°' kingdom. Crime wool.. continue to in-
"aral,Prillottion to the increase of misery, 61 at
.laawcit
tram,'"
.aequire such a height that..tohwena.rm of tire I
114-'4 44t
There were
Ititliy jo
ur,ie "trong enough to put it
their
miseries,
to that
gate ilt, ' C.OUntry reduced, by
ihtlees Ws hich the murderers in .31acteth described
a 'ii Plarwed...._
avh 2,1 Murderer—l ant one, my liege,
Ka, the the vile blows and buffets of the world
1 ~_v 5
t 0 Incens'd, that I am reckless what
o spite the world—
so:...lst
tMurderer— And I another,
..ortune, Thte: with disasters, tugg'd wit r
II To ~. wonld set my life on any chance,
. e esu, arena lt, or be rid on't."
tlitl4 °far,
utioa„N're them that th a was but the true drews:ernipt-.
ett'itt aaa, btfluilttlY of the lab"uring classes at p
4111 ' It i a 4 small part of the evil
~, ii,l , raiortunateiy carried discord. .
't hh its train P r
andi" eiiby
discontentp n
fats Odiaa • It had bred discontent in the bre,,aosots
tatiav tab
of thous 'oda of the agricultural and m
-,,,4Y C*4l,h"nrers It had roduced a state front which
sde4n t'a\'llt mash tu.ge in. the Pgrave, by which othersi were
,he.
ea i4g theirt:u..es, others endeavoured to escape ty h,s,"lie,sr !tomes and taking refuge in other countries,
,tarn
u , hilt f .r the state of the kinachim,
1, '0.41 a„a °
de„, era, „a'a prosperous citiz ns. might have
ta,;i4 tad4hlarriwarth had spoken, as he thought, that
tls'e. tat ',4nly result to be feared from poverty an
h:t %vat, "e could tell the Right Hon. Baronet
hotlf%a-t
th'ilqtrl night i4illione who envied those who added, 141'1, fati,4 and day for the support of themeeolwvoeta
earnand
let 'lent f ' and
still found that they could
ogee
thsa.4 their support. He would not detain them
of tie
oce"rinile he atatel a fewf
Lihre ftvall. non he had given facts
h,
state to
thesohfow tch::
I, truth
yt h.
401 44t5 a`tY4 ago a deputation of the tradesmen
Lord
opposite,an d i o-
ti °' ondon waited on the Nobleinsilo.
t , , kt,!El eastv.1.1144u_ the trade of the metropolis was
con'.„'
h.'4 us 'Rate, that it was impossible they could
con-
et of 1)(1' the assessed taxes, yet they received nn
rtiilt,,iir areei,li_e4f. frOM. the Noble Lord. At a nice i
the ilter, 41),1,::4 of nine parishes of the ciry of West.
wan st ited that
tf 'Mew. "lout three menths clears ty, 'e Metropolie had been earned on for a series
di Was vas ithnut any profit. A resolution
dtomtheen araeisnie_
il'ia it, ti P4'sed at a large meeting of the tra a
tat, 4se.thie. Ward of Cheap. On the Royal E change
z (luring
att:tr, ei,td of the wealth appeared that appeared
acted }i(er W 44 there one-third of the buai,ites,s
itra_n_s„.
em Y te eauld state it as a positive fact, which he ur w"
~,olli,lttyi.attrlto,ve, that 100,000 persons were then out
to
node, tilt -I.t 14 the metrupolis alone, who were ilirdirnti.
tot to tillere lthat•le to get it. Wages liiid
beenmen were
Tiiiiit'le 15 'll a degree, that the most efficienti
buttit_ll.:' a4:t
fhill,ore than Ss. svhthoefoiarhinueuiryre._arTHd.,la3r.s).
a shop
,I 1 ment to support .
4,, One of til be allowed to live by his lab••ur. That
tett,' ikicieta i:
treat bonds of society, without
Irsaltdiicohf,Giroi..
ets"ent t" `441c1 mit exist ; arid it was ,
dov:et 01),,1i.4e that it was maintainedl,:ohhreaidt could not
laid
, ° by tasks from the people.
i?-li'sre
stone, that obedience was due
fftoideirsi
rufq'teetj,-;'4lt only as long as the Government a u
one
1N4,, 11 to the people.He considered that this was
iiP"eiee . the Learned Cowmen
44 tti 444 thatf protection meantby
th, •-pa protection in this m nner was as great a duty
Wh-il'el, piert°,ftlie Government, as obedience was theddtuhteyno).f
hNI I lie as long as the Government
opldiotbeecete
e the „Was speaking of crimes, leave
frt,or
utn,4ttid;tererldtir:n ofstthateelloout
reyofaslreilnatrii
of
fsetEhtnaouttil:cne,rilus.t:tr A m—ately
tog ',e Withhethe state
tat, 1 th ' ed there
rY '44 twhich showed the statecaosef thheadfereel-
-4044, 4 People. A man who had commi ted several
a ,tared hand had at last to suffer for them on the scaffold.
11,4 t" C'inre his execution, that he was reduced to such
't )t.4t " h h d ng to hope fur but in reve g .
t4are Y e a D a l es It showed that
111 y t,,,,, sentence spoae vo um .
foe' Iliahttild drive the people to desperation
.and croimo ea.
;4". - linn• AI inter for Tarnworth had said ,
i'ae't'' i'ti'ietil,ng,.thatehe blamed the landlords for the ou .-
41 s'(ll'4ind. He (Mr. Attwood) thought thvaitntuimn:
the% :1t10,1045r) hear.) The landlords were but the
.444,4'4 partena--( Hear, hear)—which had reduced
to,, it 't the noduee of
Thoe.nee"illf:
metoe eft th I
ea, NA e Mortgages as tbehyeirweerset.ates
t, 1,-. },til that they could not reduce their rents
t° o q tOt ruined. They lookeild to the middle-
"PptlieliPireta jilt: reined,
and the middle-men ~,""t! the tenants to obtain them. were
ea
class
obligedAlet4 the class immediately below themh,e aßni,glhtthHe roeo..
\''hieri,i' lite ,41,'"erit state of Ireland. InTentrus
441dit, "ouhiedatnwarth's name was conneTeted with a Bill
tira.rei foot, " every rent in the kingdom, instead of only
'4'114% tint for cent• to it, as was presented. It was,
sattieill,s it he the Right Hon. Baronet to
.blame the
their time
he had 1; - d a measure which, at tbef
rent, ti: saes tthat it reducede the value of the produce o
there' .4asti, gode-holf, would have likewise reduced the
(sere
1, all their other burdens in proportion,
bad
giaia ' tae ,olnething to say ; but his measure
*thout
tad 1' the i'lllue of their means ni paying rent, wi -
Mist th. Itkivver to reduce the rents themselves. He con_
alairi!'otra4l„"ih'ute was as bail in its effect, as if an ext; Natal aut th; "'ld been driven through the country. H
the atai'l 140 Del(aile of a landlord who, during the war, hdadtao
Wee "iunt 'i. i,,1131. year but which was mortgage t
lanieli 4,l"eretl 1,-,;°A°o/. a-ye'ar. If the rents on that estate
Illigli°tr-„w"ala' -t° Per cent., which they ought to be, the
shaaiti
r`"ihlt trly have 4,0001. to live on. Some people
tiea
of the
changere'mlleat ti,,llaooo/. might be sufficient, but
promoters
Woola irti_e a ti;_ P'•auple were deceived by the
nut,
ore `, currency into a belief that Lute
i atka . t
' that matters would gradually return

to their former state. Thousands were deceived by that.
and kept up th.ir former expensive erablishm-nts, till by
the accumulation of mortgages they found themselves ab
eolutely ruined. The consequence was that the law of
pritnogehiture had become a curse, and he had known
many elder sons who .were ruined by sueceeding to their
properties. This was a state not to he borne. All classes
required relief; the working classes more especially would
require it, and if the higher classes chose to destroy
themselves, that was no reason why they should he allowed
to destroy the working classes. If they waited another
year, they might find it was too late to retrieve them-
selves. At three different perEods had the people raised a
cry for relief, but each time had their cry been alto
aether unattended to. In the years 1822, 1827. and
1829, the business of the House had been delayed with
the multiplicity of peti ions on this subject—to none ef
which aas the slightest attention given. He himself had
been, in 1821, called to give evidence before a Committee
appointed to inquire into the agricultural distress then
so severely f, lt, hut when he wished to speak on the sub-
ject of the currency, he had been stopped by the commis-
shiners, who sail that the only purpose tor which they sat,
was an inquiry into the causes of agricultural depression.
He said, in vain, that he wished to express his opinion
as to the origin of the distress ; they would not hear a
word. In the years 1821, 1822, 1827, and 1829, the
House refused, with equal determination, to bear any
thing hearing on the currency question. By this course
of obstinacy they were getting deeper and deeper into the
mire, like the drunken man. who, though fallen into a
pond, obstinately refused all assistance, and so was drowned.
If the House still refused to investigate the matter them-
selves, it would be investigated elsewhere, and they would
find that the demands of the people would then he still
stronger than they were now. In 1829 there had
been a petition presented from Birmingham, bearing
27,600 signatures, but still all inquiry was refused
by the House, who asserted that none was necessary,
and that the people were very well off. For him-
self, he attributed the whole oistress to the state of
he currency. He was certain, moreover, that effectual
assistance might he afforded to all classes, wi'heut in-
jury to any. He was, however, open to conviction if it
could be proved that the cause of the distress was any
other—if it could be shown that it was the church-rates,
or poor-rates, or the national debt. When the change
took place in the currency in 1819, it was set forth that
it would only cause a difference iif four per cent. in the
value of money. hut he would assert that the difference
occasioned was 57 per cent., and if this would not account
for the distress, he did not know what would. He ascribed
to the same cause all the outrages of the Whitefeet in Ire-
-I.nd, and all the late agrarian outrages in this country.
lie himself was an agitator, he was proud to say—
(Hear)—but lie had no desire any more for that of inter-
fering with the institutions of the et-marry. He had been
impelled to become such, from having for fifteen years
waited in vain for the revival of the fallen energies of the
country. Not finding this done, lie had thought it his
duty to become an agitator and forward the good work.
With reference to this question, he would read two resolu•
tions of the Birmingham Political Union, passed on the
25th of January, 1830, and signed by no less than 20,000
" geed men and true." The Hun. Nlember then read these
resolutions, the main allegation of which set forth that in
consequence of the resumption of cash payments,
a depreciation of cent. per cent. had taken place in the
value of all articles; and that the only reward leaped by
the hard-working man for his industry was poverty and
misery —while the idle reaped wealth and comfort as the
reward of their indolence. These resolutions would show
the quo an, imo which had originated the Birmingham Po
litic,d Union, and also all the other Political Soci-ties over
t e kingdom. If the measure passed in 1819 had not been
adopted, and its consequent evils not been felt to such a
ruinous extent, Political Unions had never been heard of.
If this distress had not existed, the name even of Political
Unions would never have been known; but when the men
who formed those Unions found how little they could trust
to the Legislature for the redress of their maddening
wrongs, they were driven to lo •k to their own heads and
arms as a more certain means of redress. There had been
a great deal said about political agitators, and many insi
nu itions thrown out as to their motives ; he, himself,
might he rolled a political agitator, bay God knew how
far any selfish views were from his mind in becoming line ;
his intentions and wishes, in his small way, were as little
open to his p• rson as those of the great Hampden when
lie became an agitator. So far from any advantages, he
had set toy in the full expectation of many dangers; the
bayonet, the gaol, the staff Id, were before his eyes;
he had made up his mind to all these petits—to
the secession of his friends—the direst animosity of his
foes ; and the only motive and desire which led him on
was the hope of being instrumental in forwarding the
happiness of his country.---(Hear, hear.) He must remind
the House, that the peop'e of England hid for some time
past exhibited a remarkable degree of patience—(Hear,
near)—which entitled them very much to the considera-
tion of the House and of the Government. In reviewing
the history of this country, he must confess he had not
round any one instance in which the people had got much
good front patience; however, he trusted that the pre-
sent Government would turn over a new leaf, and give
the people a cerrespondine return for the forbearing pa-
tience and generoes qualities they had so eminently exhi-
bited. But if the people were disappoin•ed in the hope
and expectation they so naturally entertained of a return
to prosperity, what might the House expect—or rather,
what might it not expect !rem their desp ? Unless the
House proceeded in their efforts for time amelioration of the
people, the Reform Bill, which they had passed six months
ago, would be worse than useless ; it would have given
liberty without prosperity, and would but serve to preci-
pitate anarchy. He had on a former occasion told the Ali.
eistry so ; he had told the Noble L. rd at the head of that
Ministry, if he merely passed the Bill without acting upon it,
he would he the Neckar, and not the Saviour of his etaintry.
The Ministry bad appeared very busy in giving mo•
Berate relent) to Ireland ; they had talked about reform-
ing the Irish Church—about the Church seas. and ewe or
three other such reforms ; but would these moderate re-
forms strike at the root of the evil which paralysed that
unhappy country? Would thy relieve the people of
Ireland from the overwhelming weight of their grinding
. . . . . .

misery ? Was this misery hi ought upon the Irish by their
own fault ? Was it owing to their ,t ant of either industry,
perseverance, or economy? No, for undoubtedly tney were
possessed of all these qualities in an eminent degree. No,
the real cause of all their miseries wag, that their industry
was nut allowed to be exercised. The relaxation and
idleness of their hands was not their own—it was forced
upon them ; it was not that they would not do anything,
but that they were not allowed to do anything. Let
them be suffered to bring their faculties, their industry
into action—let there be cultivation equal to the popula-
tion, and there would no more be beard of any necessity
for legislative enactments ag iinst them. What they
w,,nteil was legislative enactments fur them, not against
them. But during the discussion on the unhappy condi
tion of one part of the kingdom, he had not heard a
word about the miserable condition of another por-
tion of the realm of England. Not a syllable had he
heard of what was proposed to be done as a remedy fur
the dreadful state of distress and misery. Surely the
glorious tree of reform had not been planted with so
'north labour without gathering fruit from it! He greatly
feared that the people, if they saw no fruit from this tree,
would cut it down as useless ; and deeply grieved should
he be to see that day, for he expected glo6 us fruit from
such a tree. He was a Reformer—u moderate, rational
Reformer. What he wanted was universal suffrage, tri-
ennial Parliaments, and the vote by ballot. (Hear.)
And his object in these wishes was, that the people might
enjoy true liberty, prosperity, and happiness ; he wanted
'hem to have beef, bread, and beer; and if the Govern-
ment would let them have this, be was one of the last to
vish for any change; but if they did not, he could nut

at all see how a change could be avoided. Every honest
m in, whether Whig, Tory, or Radical, ought to vote for
this motion, for its object was to give a deserving people
happiness.—(Hear.) As he had before said, every lore.
rest was at present in a state of the most appal ing dis-
tress, and embarrassment, and danger. The extent of
misery was such as to have turned into gad and bitterness
the very milk of human nature in the breasts of millions.
To remedy such a dreadful state of things, something ef•
feetual and immediate must be done. He therefore im-
plored every Member in that House to agree in the reso-
lution which ha should propose, as they roust see how
closely the result of it was connected with the happiness
of the people and the security of the Throne. His mu-
,ion was, that " a Select Committee be appointed to
inquire into the causes of the general distress existing
among the industrious classes of the United Kingdom, and
into the most effectual means of its relief."
Mr. GILLON seconded the motion. He should be
failing in every duty if he did not promote an immediate
inquiry into the dreadful distress of the people. If that
House did not immediately have recourse to the most ef-
ncient legislative enactments, to remedy such an appalling
state of things, it would be impossible nut to expect that
a change must take place, which no one would regret
in.,re than himself. The people had raised their despairtm.
voices to former Parliaments, but the Hon. Houses bad
declared this cry against taxation was uncalled for and fri-
volous ; and the petitions which flowed into the House
wine ordered, one after another, to be laid under the table
ss unworthy of notice. As he had formerly stated, till'
state of depression was so dreadful, that some of our best

manufacturers, working fifteen or sixteen hours a day,
could no earn more, after deducting all the necessary ex-
penses, than ss. 1:1. a week. To show the dreadful de
pression, he would instance the fall in price of one articl,
—pullicats. In 1814 this article was worth 9d. a yard
in 1815 it fell to 7.1. In the three following years it fell to
4d. After a rise in the next year to sd. it fell so low as 4.1.
and 3d. ; and now, in 1833, it has fallen to 21e1.
H.
would only ask Hon. Memb•rs to look at this dreadful Tae
in price from 9d. to 2.0., being just the querter of the
price in the year 1814. Could there be a more dreadful
instance of the depression of trade? He had been waited
on the other day by a deputation from a Society of Scrittisl,
Wease•rs, who, under the pressure of their extreme dis
tress, had resolved to peti•ion the Legislature to interfere,
by appointing a sort of Boird of Trade, by whom a mini
mum of waees might he fixed. He had told these unfor-
tunate men, whose once ruddy facos were now pallid by
pure starvation, that, in his decided opinion, any inter
Terence of the Legislature between workmen and their
masters would be productive of the worst consequeucee.
He hid added, however, that there would shortly he
firmed a Committee of Inquiry into th..ir distress, and the
best means of remedying it, which he hoped and expected
would tend to promote the happiness of the people by re
moving their riverwelming load of distress. What tea.
he to tell those poor men when they next c-tm'. ? Was
he to tell them that their just prayers were refused—
that their distresses were to meet with nn compassion
—no relief? He trusted not; he trusted that ever%
Member of that House would wand forward and reliev;,
their oppressed countrymen. He was sure that it could
easily be done ; for nothing would persuade him but that
many of those taxes which n,,w weighed so heavily—se
overwhelmingly on the people, could be taken off. What.
ever might he the cause of this dreadful and general pres-
sure, whether it arose from tie weight of the demands of
the Church. frorn tithes, from poor-rates—whatever was
its cause, he implored the House to de away with it.—to
legislate for the starving poor, for the industrious classes,
for that portion of the community upon which depended
the security of the whole. If they did not, he, for one.
could not answer for the safety of the state. He could
very clearly see that there woul I be an instant demand for
still fu.ther changes—for universal suffrage—when the
people found that they could not hope for justice in the
present state of things. If the present House of Com-
mons did not respond to the people who had looked up to
them with so much confidence, that people would direct
their energies to the merits of obtaining such a Parliament
as would.—The motion bring read,
Lord ALTHORP, in objecting to the motion, was far
from objecting to the fullest discussion on the question to
which that motion mainly related. With respect to
himself, his opinions on the subject were pretty well made
up ; but it would be necessary that there should be a fail
and fair discussion on the point in the House. He wished
to leave the matter entirely to the consideration of the
House. II- saw on the notice book another motion of

the Hon. M 'other, to inquire into the monetary system.
A notice, too, had been given by the Hon. Member for
Yorkshire, which was quite in accordance with the views
of the Hon. Member for Birmingham, and that motion
was to inquire into the distress of the country. He would
appal to the candour of the Hon. Member for Birming.
ham, if the obj,ct of all these motions was not the same
as his—and if that was not, that the distress of the
country was caused by the monetary system. He was
aware that the opportunity to enter into the question of the
state of the country, in ma!;ing objections to the appoint-
ment of a Committee, was no,. so favourable as he might
find other opportunities, but he could not allow the
speech of the Hon. Member to pass without observa-
tion. Though the Hon. Gentleman had stated that
the change in the currency, in 1819, was the cause of

the distress in 1833, he had not stared what would be
the remdey for that distress.—(Hear.) He was not
sati►fied that any alteration whatever in the monetary
system would remedy the evils of the people. However,
when gentlemen came to discuss this question, and charged
the evils on the principles followed on regulating the cur-
reney, they were bound, in his opinion, to state what their
views were as to the remedy, and what change was de-
siraide.—(Cheers.) There was a great distinction between
gentlemen seating the alteration in the currency was a
gener +I cause for distres., and pointing out how that dis-
tress might be remedied by some alteration in the cur-
rency ; hut unless they did the latter, it was difficult to
iy in what respect an operation on the currency would
affect that distress of which they complained. The Hon.
Gentleman stated several times, as a matter of complaint,
that his Majesty's Ministers had not put into the King's
speech any allusion to the general and deplorable distress;
hut on- reason for that was that the Ministers did not be-

lieve in that distress.—(Cheers.) He knew very well that
there was nothing which he or any other gentleman could
say which produced so much odium in the House, as to
asset t that any class or description of men were prosperous.
(Hear.) He believed, thereore, that there was no more dif-
ficult or delicate subject to discuss. He was quite aware, in •
deed, that there was great distress among the lahouring
classes, but it was not grester now than it had been some
time before. He beli,ved, on the contrary, from the infor-
mation lie had received, that the great mass of the labour-
ing classes were in full employment, and that there were
fewer persons out oi work now, and less general di,
tress than at several former times.—(Hear, hear, hear )
Among one class of the people, and in one part of the
country, he knew that there was great distress, that no-
thing could exceed it; that thy' distress was grievous, and
that it was, at least he was afraid it was, increasing rather

than diminishing—he meant among the hand-loom weavers.
They constituted a large and numerous class, and were in
a state of great destitution. But that was not owing to
the currency—it was owing to the competition between
them and machinery, and must therefore, he was afraid,
increase. He was aware, too, that in many parts of the
country, the agricultural labourers were in a state of
great distress ; but he did not think that was caused by
he state of the currency. It arose from other causes,
to which the Parliament must apply itself, and was bound
to apply itself, in order to relieve the distress of the la-
bourer. The Hon. Gentleman had also stat d that dis-
tress bad produced great demoralization among the people,
that they looked with avidity fur the death of each other.
that they might obtain from the dissolution of their friends
the means of subsistence. 'When the Hon. Gentleman
said that the people wished one another dead, he could not
rielii ve it. How could it b.? Or how could that change
benefit the paupers, to whom the Hon. Gentleman
was alluding ? What advantage could the death of
others be to them ? But it was in vain to argue
this question from reason ; his feelings showed him
that it was impossible. He knew enough of the feel-
ings of the English people, to he quite sure that no

. .
Englishman, or at least no great body of Enelishmen,
ever let such a wish as the Hon. G.ntleman said enter
their heads.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman said, that
by the sweat of their brow they could not get bread, be
cause, he said, there was now no remuneration for labour.
At the same time, the Hon. Gentleman said that the la-
bourer produced four times as much as was necessary for
his own consumption. If that were the case, the country
should be in a state of prosperity; but to have general
prosperity from that, it supposed that every labourer was
employed, and produced four times as much as he con-
sumed, which appeared to him impossible. The Hon.
Gentleman also slid that he knew that for several years
past the tradesmen had been living on their capital.
Th .t was scarcely possible ; for if all tradesmen had
been living for seven years on their capital, all trade
must before now have come to an end.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman used, too, an inconsistent
sort of argument : he said that one thing, which was
formerly worth 4s. was now worth Bs. ; and another, that
was formerly worth Ss. was now only worth 4s. That
only showed that one thing had got dear, and another
thing bail got cheap. The Hon. Gentleman warned the
House not to refuse the Committee ; but the question was
not so easily decided. It was propo-ed to appoint a Coto-
mittee to inquire into the distress of the country ; and
every gentleman, before he voted, was bound to ascertain
whether granting the Committee would increase or di-
minish the distress.. If they thought the Committee
would increase the distress, the Honourable Gentleman
sad no right to say that they did not feel for the
distress of the country in voting against the Com-
mittee. He was satisfied from the statements and argu-
' ments which it was supposed the Committee would ap-
prove of, that were it ap ointed, it would increase the dis-
tress a hundredfold. He begged gentlemen to consider
what the effect would be on every creditor, public and pri-
vate, should a Committee be appointed on the notion that
it was necessary to make a depreciation in the currency.
Why any gentleman, whether a Member of that House er
not—any man who owed money, would have to pay it
immediately. If they were not prepared to discharge all
their mortgages in the next week, and wet prepared to p
every thing they owed, what would be the necessary con-
sequence ? Why they must expect that their creditors
wool t not be willing to lose b:f the depreciation, and they
would demand iminedia'e payment. That would be the
tendency of the Hon. Gentleman's motion if complied
with. The effect of the appointment of the Committee
would be a general stagnation of credit in the country.
The Hon. Gentleman had said, if the Committee were not
granted, they ought to consider what would the conse-
quence be, for the people were prepared to require
general alteration in the cut rency. The Hon. Member
bad spoken of the honesty of the people of England, and
in that honesty he put the fullest confidence. He confided

in their good sense, and he was glad that he was able, from
that confidence, to give them Reform. Ili should, how-
ever, have hut very li,tle confidence in their honesty if he
could believe hat all the debtors of the kingdom were ready
to deprive their creditors of part of what was due to them.
He did not apprehend that there was any such feeling among
,he people. He knew that the people expected from the
Government every practical remedy for every practical accuse;
he knew that the people expected every possible reduct.on
of expenditure and of taxation consistenly with the ho-
nour and good faith hf the country; hut he did not know
.nd did not believe that the people expected the Ministers
to commit an act of injustice. After the currency had
been settled on its present footing for so many years—after
so many contracts hld been made since the period of the
depreciation of the currency, the effeet ~f going hack to a
depreciated currency would be to throw things into con-
ru,iou and commit injustice'. That was, he thought, as
good an argument as could be given against the motion.— •
( Hear, hear.) For these reasons, though he had not en-
tered into the question fully, and having only wished to
make a few observations on the speech of the Hun. 'Mem
her, he must say that it was quite inconsistent with his
duty to give his consent to the motion--(Cheers, and
call's of `° Question ")

Mr. COBBETT, if the Committee were proposed to
change tie currency, should vote against it. The only
proposition was, that a Committee should be appointed to
inquire. It appeared to him, as the Committee was not
to make any change, but only to inquire into the distress
of the country, that there was no reason for refusing the
Committee. It was acknowledged on all hands—nobody
now denied, that a great error was committed in 1819.
A monstrous act of injustice was, in fact, then committed.
The Hon. Member for Birmingham thought the decision
was wrong, and was open to revision. The Committee
'night inquire, and might agree to the lion. Member's
opinion, or might not. The Committee might make a
report, and yet not recommend a change in the cur-
rency. If the Hon. Member divided the House he should
vote with Cr ies of " Question.")
Mr. E. LYTTON lIULWER wished to state shortly
why he should vote against the motion of the Hon.
Member. Whatever arguments might be stated, and
however plausible, in favour of not altering the cur-
rency, if the Committee were appoirind, the country
would not believe them, and would suppose the currency
wasto be altered. That was the common sense view of
the matter ; and were they to run the risk of shakiag con-
fidence thougbout the country? He believed that the ap
pointment of the Committee would increase the distress.
The distress, he admitted, was great ; there was great po
verty and great demoralization, part of which arose from
the use of baneful stimulants. A great many evils arose
from the administration of the poor laws. The commis-
sioners appointed to inquire into them had made many
things apparent, and the administration of those laws must
be amended. If that were done, and the law of settlement
were altered, he should rely on them and on emigration to
remove the distress.--(Calls of " Question.")
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD was understood to say that the
whole business of the country was carried on upon credit,
and the great mass of the tradesmen were insolvent. He
did not like to speak of himself; but there was no pre-
sumption in it, and he would say, that though he used all
his energies, he could not now make any species of pro-
perty pay. He thought it was their duty to inquire, when
the Noble Lord himself admitted that the class of hands
loom weavers were all in a state of distress. He was much
interested for the middle and lower classes, and saw them
going fast to decay. He had made some inquiries since
he came to London, and he was informed, that from
Charing-cross to the Royal Exchange, three-fourths of the
tradesmen, on both sides of the way, would be in a state
of insolvency, if they were called upon to produce their
accounts. He believed that, and he thought a Committee
ought to inquire into its causes. He did not believe that
the distress could be remedied by a change in the cur-
rency, unless it were accompanied by a reduction of tax-
ation. '1 he dem.rralization of the people was great, and it
was making, he was afraid, :a rapid progress. The Hon.
Member proceeded to read two letters from Birmingham,
describing the amount of poor-rates in that town, the
number of poor, and various details, concluding by saying
that the amount of poor rates in Birmingham fur 18:32-
1833 would not tie less than 80,0001. He believed that if
the Government refused inquiry, fearful consequences would
be the resulr.--(Qoestion.)
Mr. MAXWELL would ask the Government to ad-
journ the consideration of the question, if he had any
influence, for he considered it of great importance. An
act of great injustice had been committed against all the
debtor people of England. It was a breach of good faith
to them. They were ordered to take a one-pound note
and a shilling for a guinea—thr y had done so, and hid
contracted debts in a depreciated currency. The State
itself had borrowed a large sum in what was now called
rags. The Government had not returned, by the Act of
1819, to the ancient standard of gold and silver, but to
the gold standard only. The people had not had justice
done them, though it was the duty of the Government to
he the arbiter between the parties, and not throw its
weight into the scale of either debtor or creditor.
The distress, poverty, and crime, which existed in
the country, were adequate and ample reasons
fir not refusing the Committee. They ought
not to turn a deaf ear to the people's complaints, and they
ought to grant the Committee, which might, perhaps, by
its inquiries, satisfy the people that the regulations of 1819
were right —(Qiiestion.)
Mr. G. F. YOUNG was well acquainted with the state
of the working classes in the neighbourhood where he re-
sided ; and during the last twenty years had never known
distress so generally diffused amongst the labouring classes
as at present. Nor was it confined to the labouring classes
alone, but extended to, and indeed in some measure, arose
from, the distresses of their employers. The shipping in-
terest of this country, with which he was especially con•
nected, was wholly unproductive to the shipowners.—
(Hear.) There was an abstract proposition before the
House, whether or not the industrious classes -a-ere in a
state of distress; and admitting that they were, then,
whether the House was willing to investigate its cause,
with a view to applying a remedy ? If, in the course of
the discussion, the question of currency should arise, the
House would deal with it according to its wisdom.
Lord ALTHORP was aware that distress prevailed
amongst the employers, though he did say he did not think
the distress was so general as it was.

Sir J. WROTTESLEY rose amidst calls of " Ques-
tion." He fully concurred in what had been stated of the
evidence of great distress amongst the labouring and middle
classes of the community. He had, in common with the
Hon. Member for Birmingham, great facilities for ascer-
taining the state of the trading and agricultural interests,
and he knew the greater part of those statements which
had been made by that Hon. Gentleman were not exagge-
rated. As to the alteration of the standard in 1819, it
was impossible to deny that it produced effects the most
extraordinary that ever existed in any country.—(Hear.)
The Hon. Member for Birmingl.atn had stated—what
many persons who only viewed the matter superficially
mieht not believe, namely—that capital was generally
sinking away from its possessors. Reverting to the tn-a-
sure of 1819, he certainly wished that some alteration
had been made in the wandard—not that which was made—
hut something more approaching to an equitable adjust-
ment. In 1626, he thought they had committed a great
fault. The alteration made then was an aggravation
of th it of 1819. Still he felt that, in looking at thes,
circumstances, they ought to regard them with the view
of providing a remedy ; hut he could not bring himself to
believe, that the propositions i,f the Hon. Illember fa
Birmingham would produce that desirable resuit. —( Hear. )
If, indeed, he thought the investigation into the distress
would nut go forth to the country mixed up with other
circumstances, he should have great pleasure in voting for
the appointment of a Committee ; but he was convinced,
from the opinions expressed by various gentlemen, that it
a Committee were appointed, and that Committee a !elect
one, they would ht: the means of holding out hopes to the
country which they would be unable to realize.—(Hear.)
With great respect for, and defetence to, the Hon. Member
for Birmingham, he thought the means by which that
Hon. Gentleman had attained a certain degree of celebrity,
for which, no doubt, his talents well qualified him, had,
unintentionally he believed, produced such a result. He
must say one word for the country generally, regarding the
assessed taxes, respecting which so great an outcry had
been made. He admitted the in. quality with which they
were levied ; but if the Noble Lord (the Chancellor of die
Exchequer) should find himself in a situation to propose
the reduction of taxation, he hoped lie would continue the
intern hitherto pursued, and begin by relieving those who
were most entitled to commiseration—the working and
poorer classes—in preference to tradesmen in towns, and
particularly the metropolis..—(Cheers.) They had taken
off four millions of taxes in pursuance of this system.
They had taken off the taxes on beer, coals, candles, and
printed cottons—the dress and necessaries of life of the
lower classes. He hoped they would proceed on the same
plan, and that they would begin by taking off the tax on
soap, which would be highly beneficial in a fiscal point of
view, and prove a seasonable relief to the poorer classes of
the community.—(Hear.)
Mr. CLAY, if he saw any hope of deriving a practical
advantage from appointing a Committee, would support
the motion , but the inquiries of such a Committee would
necessarily he of so general a nature as to render the dis-
covery of practical !medics impossible. The Hon.
Member for Tynemouth spoke of the shipping interests--

the Hon. Member for Birmingham of the =Petit.)
system and the working classes—others of the distresses
the agricultural, the trad na, and the manufacturing par
the community. An inquiry which was to embrace al
these various subjects was, in his humble opinion, one o,
the wildest schemes ever propo=ed.
Mr. CAYLEY hoped the Hon. Gentleman would con-
sent to a postponement ; at the same time, if he presser
his motion, he should be prepared to support him.
Mr. BARING considered that mueh of ►the distres
which now prevailed ought to be attributed to the in
fluence of the spirit of change, anti the uncertainty tha
in ccv.sequence prevailed. So many and suc't variuu•
schemes, for instance, were ent••rtained with relation rg
the West Indies, and the country was in such a,
uncertain sta.e, that no person would risk his ca-,ita'
there. If 61 turned to the East Indies, no perm,
l:ne•.v what was about to he done—no person knew wk...
rher the trade was to he thrown open or carried or
I,y a monopoly of private individuals. Similar uncer-
tainty existed with regard to the Dutch and Canadian
trade, and this uncertainty and want of security was, it.
his Opinion, one of the most prominent causes of 'be pre.
vailiog distress. But disttess was incident to huma'
nature. We ought to look abroad and examine the state
of other countries, and we should then find from th.
comparison some cause for gratulation. An Hon. Membet
had referred to the state of Paris, as exhibiting proots of a
less degree of distress than existed here. But what were
the facts? Upwards of one-third of the populating
there died in the poor house and the hospi•al. Ont of
21,000,000 of deaths, 8,000,000 had taken place it,
poor houses and hospitals. This was a great proof of
distress; and if they !doled to the state of morals there,
they would find that out of 25,000 births, 10,000 wen

Itgitienate, and upwards of one-half of tho•e latter were

toundlings. Him objection to going. into Committee was.
and he could not shut his ey s to the fact, that they would
in reality go nto a Committee to consider the props fiery rt
depreciating the stan lard, and not to consider the retned
for the distress. He could not imagine how any per•ot
could conceive the distresses of the country wool I be rune
died by an alteration in the currency, money being the mere
measure of commodities. How midd the wealth of tIo•
country ein any shape increased by alterin2 its measure?
He had no objection to go into a Committee upon the
monetary syst.m, to see if it could be improved, but not
to go into a Committee to lower the stint! trd. It was

his opinion, and also the opinion of m any other gentle-
men, that we had committed a great m•stake in taking the
single metal of gold as a measure of value.—(He,e.)
He was ready to go into a Committee on the question of
the currency ; and with a silver currency, and an altera-
tion in the payment of country bankers, he was not pre•
pared to say that they might not with safety and advan-
tage allow the 11. notes to be re-issued
Mr. M. ATTWOOD said there was no doubt but that
the greatest distress existed among the labouring classes.
Could any thing he more wi d !ban the supposition that
this House would refuse to inquire into the na ure of that
distress—that this House would not devote itself entire')
to the subject; even if it should be necessary to neglect
every thing else? Whether the distress arose from the
state of tt•e currency, or any thing else, it was their duty
to inquire; for why should they excite expectations, as
they had done, without doing something to justify them ?
Mr. BARING explained.
Mr. W. BEAUMONT would refuse his consent to the
motion, only because be had such confidence in Ministers,
that he believed they would do everything that was ne-
cessary in the state of the country.
. . _

Mr. FIELDEN said no doubt could he entertained of
the fact, that great and almost unbearable distress existed
in the c.)umry, and they were bound, at least, to inquire
into the nature and causes of that distress. He contt seed
the state of the manufacturers at the close of the war with
their state at the present moment. He was himself a pro-
prie,or of power-looms. Let me, said he, he restored to
the state, with respect to the manufacturers which I have
to do with, in which I was placed at the close of the late
war, and then I shall be able to give my labourers the
same wages as I did then. Let them do away with pen-
sioners and sinecurists, who were the b ine of the country
who drink and swallow up all the industry of the country.
Without some measures to remedy such abuses as these,
reform was useless. The people bad hitherto been
waiting, with the full conviction that the Reformed Par.
liament would do them justice ; and if justice were denied,
he trembled for the consequences.
Mr. PEASE observed, that the task which they would
have to impose upon the proposed Committee would be
almost Herculean, and he should not feel inclined to sup.
port the motion merely on abstract principles. [At this
time a dog made his way into the body of the House, and
excited a good deal of merriment among the Members, as
well as in the gallery. In the latter great anxiety was

testified to obtain a view of the " Hon. Member for _hark-
shite," as a wag tbougkt proper to designate the intruder.]
Mr. I'ease continued (after the expulsion of the unautho-
rized visitant)—lf the Committee were to be composed
entirely of economists, of one particular sec', he should
oppose it; but the cry against former Parliaments had
been, that they did not represent the feelings of the
country. Were the R.-formed House of Commons justified
in relusing to go into a Committee to inquire into a sub•

ject of so much interest to their constituents ? If they
dill so, the country would think, and would think justly,
that there was no disposition in that House to listen to
the complaints of the people in this Parliament any more
than in former Parliaments. lie believed that a Commit..
tee of the nature propo,ed would collect a mass of valuable
information, and would probably bring forward some very

important suggestions fur the improvement of the condi-
tio❑ of the labouring classes. He was certainly of opinion
that it would be better if the motion were withdrawn,
and put into a different shape : hut he would never refuse
an inquiry into those distresses, which were allowed on all
hands to be great and grievous, and he feared almost
overwhelming.
Mr. WARBURTON said the present discussion was
the most desultory which he had witnessed since the open.
ing of •he present Parliament. When a motion of a simi-
lar nature had been proposed on a former occasion, during
a former Administration, it had been argued ag.inst such
an inquiry, that it would not lead to any practical good.
On the same ground be would vote against the inquiry at
present, because be not only considered that it would
lead to no practical good, hut that it would produce much
practical evil, and would greatly augment the distress, tu
relieve which was its professed object. If the motion
were carried, in his opinion it would be the duty of the
Administration to quit office to-morrow.—( Cries of
" No, no.") The House of Commons itself was th
proper Committee for inquiring into the grievances of
the country. If any gentleman considered that there
was any particular grievance which deserved to be
inquired into, he had it in his power to state his reasons
to the House, and it Ras then fur them to krant a Com-
mittee to inquire into the particular grievance. Hr agreed
with the Him. Member for the county of Durham, that

the task of such a Committee would indeed be Herculean.
He thought that this House would never make itself
party to so monstrous a system of injustice as that of beine
instrumental in breaking all contracts entered into ho
fifteen years, merely bee tulle a similar injustice had been
committed at two former periods—and because the cur
rency bad been depreciated in 1797, and appreciated in
1819. The gre test injustice would again be perpetrated.
by a change which would break contracts to an exten
touch larger even than the former violation of them.
the Legislature w. re to agree to any such proposition, thee
he would say, indeed, in the words of Chatham, quoted
by an Hon. Gentleman the other evening, that " discord
would reign." It would, in fact, be a revolutionary
measure, and would be destructive of the foundation of
all property.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, it appeared to him that the
only propelling motive of the country to induce them to
wish for a reformed Parliament, had been the wish to get
a Parliament that would investigate the causes of the public
distress. In a reformed Parliament, he should have
thought that such a Committee as that moved for by the
Hon. Member for Birmingham, would have been had for
asking for. If, indeed, the distress of the country were
denied, then he could understand the reason for refusing
inquiry ; but as it was admitted by all that there was sum.
distress (anti he, for one, was ready to adduce evidence
of a great deal of distress in this country, and of over-
whelming distress in Ireland), he thought that a corns
plete case had been made out in support of the motion,
provided that no mischief could result from it. And
what mischief could possibly result from it ? If the people
entertained delusive hopes of relief, let it be shown that
their hopes were delusive; if, on the other hand, there
were remedies in existence, which might at least miti4ate
the evil, the House would neglect it, duly if it did not
adopt the best me ins of endeavouring to discover those
remedies. When the Hon. Member for Bridport talked
of the evils that would ari,e from an alteration of the
currency, he spoke of only half the case. Many ann
great were the evils which had arisen from the conclusion
of contracts during the period of depreciation. In Ire
land especially, those evils were so extensive, that thet
had effect.d more mischief than a social revolution. On.
of the great evils of Ireland was, that so many of tin
landed proprietors resided out of the country. The te-
nants with whom they had made contracts were, by the
change of the currency, actually p.iying 50 per cent.
more than the bargain. The Hon. and Learned Member
instanced several cases of extreme hardship in this respect,
which were all to be traced to the enhaneeraent of th.

value of the currency.. The great thing was to put labour
io motion ; to increase the generator of labour. Now
'hey would do that if they extended the currency so
as to reach labour in all in; various and minute branches.
If a bickwoodsman in America were to determine not
to cut down a tree except with an axe of gold, be would
he treated as a madman, because be was enhancing the
value of the generator of labour. But by enhancing th
value of the currency in this country, they had enhanced
the value of the generator of labour. What. ver mieht be
bought upon that subject, however, an inquiry ought to
oe instituted inm it, to ascertain the balloce of good or
vie which might result film any change. At a time when
the empire was in such great diatr,ss, when one I nib of it
was convulsed, and desolation and poverty stalked through
'he I:nd, was it not the most sacred duty of a reformed
Parliament to inquire into the practicability of remedying
'vile so reolorable ? He was ;wend of is reformed Parlia-
tient which had introduced the Hon. Member for Oldham
row a class which he so well knew, to describe the evils
they were enduring. A most useful class th it class was;
trot it was one of the proudest ho 4515 of the country, th it
a fon that class a man might raise himself to the higliast
oation in society. The representative of ihat valuable
lass, the presence of that H m. Mernher, ouelit to he en
idditional motive to the House for appointing the oroposed
Committee, in order that he might hive an opportunity of
xplaining his views, and that the Commit ee might refute
him if he were in error, or concur with him if his opis
Mons should appear to be just.
Mr. W. HARVEY wished to say a few words. in order
'hat the vote which he was about to give might not be
mistaken. To appoint a motion which had fur its object
in inquiry into the distress of the labouring classes, care
.-ied with it the appearance of disregarding what every
oats must feel was a subject entitled to the most sericoe
mention. But the Hon. nonber :or Birmingham riu,lit
to have brought forward his motion uud r more realm' able
orcuinstances. It was not just thus to place Nlemb-rs
ui a false p isition. No one but the Hun. Member him-
self could have anticipated this sudden introduction Of one
if the largest questions to winch the attention of Raba.'
neat could be directed, and on which ever, one ought te
prepare his mind before he ruck a tat in its consi,lee
ration. He opposed the motion because its effect would
iie to shift the responsibility on the suhje...t from the
shoulders of his Majesty's Goverom-nt. N r Irian was
mare sensible than he was of the depth of the g- n oat
distress, and of the necessity of ado sting some for ins
for its relief. But while agreed on that point, no
one could doubt the mode in woieli the to lief should
be afforded. Toe evil was the magnitude, and still more the
unequal character of the tax ition of the country. He
should he sorry, therefore, to acquie.ce in a motion, which
would divert from M ,jesty'a Government their respon-
sibility on that point. He wished first to see the Noble
Lord's budget, and to see what relief he was prepared to
afford, both by the remission of taxation and the introduce
lion of changes into that which remained. For, he re
peat al, it was ni t more the burden then the inequality cf
taxation which was oppressive. After the taxes which bore
pirtially had been modified, and after the most rigid eco-
nomy had been enforced in every minute department of the
public expenditure, then further relief must be obtained by
the remission of taxes bearing on industry, and the substi-
tution of a well-gradueted property tax. As to the ques-
tion of the currency, that was the greatest fallacy conceiv-
able. There was plenty of money in the country ; all that
was wanted was the mode of applying it. The worst of it
was, that the money was in heaps and masses. There was
but little scattered over the country ; but it had been
drifted, as if by accident, into large shoals. The way to
disperse it, was to make those contribute the most by taxa-
tion who were possessed of the greatest means to do so,
Mr. ROBINSON rose amidst loud cries of " Quese
tion," but expressed his hope that as it had been inti •
mated that the Irish Bill would not be proceeded with that
night, the House would listen to him for a few minutes.
Of all tile arguments against the motion, that of the Hon.
Member for Bridport seemed to him to be the most extra-
ordinary—namely, that if the House consented to go into
the inquiry, his Majesty's Government would he
bound to abandon their places. That was an extraor-
dinary argument indeed, to be used by an independent
Member of the House of Commons. The appointment of
the proposed Committee had been opposed by the same
line of argument which had been urged on all former occa-
sions of a sitntlar nature. The inquiry was always too
general, or too particular. Some said that there was no
definite object; others that there was a definite object, but
that it was an erroneous one. In the present state of the
public mind, it would be a great misfortune if the H ruse
refused to agree to the motion of the Hen. Member for
Birmingham. For that motion lie should cent iinly vote ;
not that he bound himself to adopt that Hon. Member's
particular opinions, but on the ground that there trait
great distress, and that the causes of that distress ought to
be investigated.
Mr. TOOKE—lntending to vote in favour of the Com-
mittee as on an abstract proposition, I would wish to guard
my vote by stating that I differ entirely from the avowed
collateral and ulterior motives of the Hon. Mover. I
know, however, that distress exists ; I believe that that
people of England expect from us an inquiry into the
cause of it ; I am sure they are entitled to that inquiry,
and having perfect confidence in their good sense, I feel
assured that they will be satisfied with a well conducted
investigation, and an honest report of the result.
The House then divided—
For Mr. Attwood's motion.... l9B
Against it
Majority

[The announcement of the numbers of the tninorit
was received with repe.tt d cneers

THE SABBATH.

Mr. TOOKE prseented a petition from the rector,
churchwardenq, and inhabitants of the parish of S.
George, Bloomsbury, for the beter observance of the
Sabbath.