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London, England, 1802-04-30 00:00:00

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IMPER I L 1)/1 LI A M Li.iv

HOUSE OF PEERS,

THURSDAY, APRIL sg.
COortsit. were heard at considerable length re_
lative to the Scotch- Appeal, Rebecca Hog fu.
Thwaites, Hog, and others ; namely, the AT.
a‘oRNEY GENERAL and MT. ALEXANDER on the
part of the Appellant ; after which their Lordships
deferred the further hearing of the case till' tg-
, morrow.
t The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the .
'House, that he had received two letters in conse-
-quence of communications made by him, pursuant
to -the order of the House, of their Lordships' Votes •
of Thanks ; the first, as we could collea, was from
his Royal Highness the commander In Chief, re-
lariOe to their Lordships' Vote of Thanks to the
Army in genera fox their very meritorious gene.
rd. good condutt in the course of the War ; arid
.the second from Vice_Admiral Lord KEITH, ac-
knowledging the receipt of, their Lordships' last
Vote of Thanks, &c. and stating, that he would
duly 'communicate those which referred to Admiral
RAINIER, .pursuant to their Lordships' desire, tec.
Lord PELHAM presented a Message from His
Majesty, relative to an adequate provision for their'
Royal Highnesses the DuKEs of SUSSEX and CAM-
BRIDGE, similar to that delivered to the House of
Commons, (to oxr Reports of which 'we refer) ex-
cepting the necessary conclusion, that His Majesty
relied on the affectionate attachment of the House
of Lords, in readily concurring in making such Pro-
visions as the nature of the case appeared to require.
The Message being read by the Clerk,
Lord PELHAM immediately rose, and moved
-an Address to Hi Majesty on the occasion of His
-Gracious Message.. It was couched in corres-
pondent terms,. and concluded with assuring His
Majesty that their Lordships would readily concur
in making such provisions'as the nature of the case
appeared to require, &c.
The Question being put, the Address was weed
without hesitation, and the Lords with White'
Staves were ordered to wait upon Jiis Majesty '
therewith. '
Lord PELHAM then, in pursuance to. His Alijes-
ry's commands, presented to their Lordships Copies
of the Drfinitive Treaty of Peace between His Bri-
tannic Majesty and the French Republic, His Ca-
tholic Majesty, rind the Batavian Republic, signed
at Amiens, the 27:11 of March z3oz.—Ordered to
lie on the Table.
. ,--:.:!:'_
After a short pause, ' •2!"-t
...":A:
Lord GRENYILLE rose, anti after a3ver:= 2 -,,,1"';---
glrler.llly tf.... the ~,,pylfv,r 7, ,
„...-.; • -;:. „ - ...r , ..ice
.---x-.„=,,,,,y- .
communicated to ale house, stated, , v ' .7: --:: -- - - ~, ,,,,.
Noble Lord had given no notice of an'i l'• .....: -,.....
on the subject, he felt it incumbent upon nil*, unacr
very strong impressions of duty, to come forward,
and to submit a Motion to the House, " Y. at the.
Treaty be taken into consideration on :'uesday
next, and that their Lordships be summoned for that
day."

...~
_ ~; f
- -"~ir

Lord AUCKLAND observed, that he had no doubt
of the Noble Lord's coming forward upon public
grounds, with whom he agreed.as to the very great
magnitude and importance of the subjed in question.
.But one branch of it in particular he thought claimed
the attention of the House ; so much so that it merited
a full, serious and separate discussion..—What he
alluded to was, the important question of how far an..
tient Treaties were aireeted by their non-rcnesval on
instances of Treaties of Pacification.—ln discussing
• this point, he had particularly in his view the Coriven-
tion of 1787, which not only affeCted the British Com-
mercial Interests ,in Europe,but most seriously affeeled
the well.being of our.possessions in India. Of the
various details and bearings of this important Treaty,
he had reason to be particularly informed. His
Lordship, however, seemed to express his wish,
from the nature of the discussion be proposed to
urge, tit the Noble Lord had not named SO. early
a day fur bringing forward his Motion, and that if
he had no particular reason for fixing upon Tuesday,
he would postpone it to a later day. His Lordship.
observed, that independent of the peculiar impor.
tance of the subjeft in his contemplation, he was
the tnor,e induced to bring it forward, as what had al-
' ready passed in the House in reference to it, rendered,
in a great degiee, such a specific discussion neces-
sary. He seemed to refer to the opinions and
arguments advanced by the Noble Lord on this
subjed on former. occasions, and which were
always ateitneled with their due weight and ef,
fed ; these, however, he had no doubt, were mis-
represented in Paris ; and if the Noble Lord- were
to refer to the Official Paris Paper, No. 210, he
would find it so. Observing farther upon the pe.
culiar nature and importance of the subject to which
he , proposed to call the serious attention of their
Lordships, he mentioned the probability of .his be-
ing-obliged to ,call for certain Dbeuments,
.for the
more thorough elucidation thereof ; and concluded
with Observing, that should the Noble Lord ulti.
mutely fix upon Tuesday for hii proposed discus.
sion, he should feel it proper to submit his prop..
sitions to thee-House on Monday. •
Lord GRENVILLE in observing upon
.what fell
from the Noble Li.,rd, said, that, his Lordship bekt
did him justice in believing that he came forward
upon public grounds alone; upon these, and under
strong motives of duty oply did he aft. He fully
agreed with the Noble Lord, that the subjed ad.
verred to by -him, was one of the lastimportance, as
with all its other important relations, it involved
the very interesting question, whether we had any
maintainable Empire in India. He agreed with himn,
that those discussions wets not only important,
but. necessary and
.that particularly in his COQ.

temptation, would lead to the consideration of
what Treaties .were abandoned, what were left un-
touched, and what were left in a state of uncer.
tainty, which he deenied even worse than -aban-
doned. Upon,the point of misrepreSentation of what
had fa:len froth him, in Paris,'and alluded to by the
Noble 'Lord, he was fully aware of the circum-
tance, and without teterring to particular documents,
(we understood. his Lordship to say, that.) every
thing which was represented of him in Paris, .for
the last' ten years, was a misrepresentation. How_
ever, from his view of the subjea, proposed by the
. the Noble Lord for discUssion;he conceived it could
make no difference with respeet to it, whether the
discussion proposed by himself took place on an
earlier or , later day.. He particularly wished it to
take place on, Tuesday, with regard, as we under_
stood him , chiefly to the convenience of some Noble
Lords; he would, therefore move, " that the House
. be summoned for TneSday next."
Lord PELHAM observed, that with resped to
what' the Noble Lord had alluded to in regard to an
expelled Motion from hi:n .on the subjeCt of the
Treaty just communicated, the House 'would do him
the justice to recollea, that pn former occasions, he
expressly said,. that any Noble Lord who chose it,
was at, liberty to' make lny Motion, or submit
whatever proposition he thought proper upon the
subjeo. In the present'instaoce, he did .not feel it
neceasary to make any motion,. nor had he.. any
'measure td propose arising QUI de Treaty.
With respect to the notice which-had been given
by his-Noble Friend (AuCt.ii,A.NDI of his intended
propositions, we understood the Noble Secretary
*to express his opinion; that'a laser day would be
admi.,sable„ chiefly for the purpose of seeing the
extent to which the discussiou of the genetal sub-
jett would extend,
Lord 4u cia A iyp spoke short* in' explanation ;
and said, that the stibje4 he meant to bring for-
ward was, God knows, *of sufficient importance for
a,separate discussion. He professed his wish to ac-
commodate Noble Lords, as far as he could, con-
sistently with the pature and urgency of the topics
in question.; and in this view lie would agree to
postpone hi; Motion for summoning their Lordships,
from Monday till Thursday next.
Lord Git ivyt LIE spoke in :explanation;
Lord IJOBARF made a few remarks upon '.hat
had transpired in, the course of the conversation.
He seemed to entertain no objeCtion to a full dis-
cussion of the Treaty, hut had no hesitation in as-
serting his opioion, that if the French should ad-
vance pretensioos, they would be founded on the
arguments of the Noble Lord.
The questions were then regularly put on the
MOtion of the Noble Lords for summoning the
Nouse, videlicet: on that of Lord QRENVILLE,
for that procAding taking place for Tuesday next,
and of Lord AUCKAND, for the following Thurs.
-day. They, were both ordered accordingly.

Lord IT:ALA:VD inoved for the'produaion of a
List of all the tensions Chz-irgeable :on the Civil
List„ &c. from the' Ist of January, ;800, to the
resent- time ; which was ordered accordingly.
• Some proceedings took place -relative to the

Staridisig Orders of the House, respe(.iing the Sale
= . - of E,tares, and some 'private business was disposed
after whicii,the House adj-ourntti tp-rnor-
-.
•

.11013,3 E t) CO AlllO 2VS

~:t

THURSDAY,' APRIL 29.

TnE CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice, that in the Coin:nittee of svVdys_and Means
to.morrow,• he should move the Lottery fur the
service of the present year.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the
Committee of Supply rn the Provision to i)e made
for their Royal Highnesses the Dukes of SUSSEX
and CAMBRIDGE.

The Resolutions of the said Committee were
read and agreed to ;. and on the Motion of were
CHANCELLOR of the F.XCHEQUEk,, a Bill was or-
derej to be brought in op them.
The.,,Prench Wine Bill was read a. third time,
and psased.
The Irish Bank gestridion Bill was read .a third
time, and passed,.
'." The House then went through a Committee on
*tlieSugar Drawback Bill. The Report to be re.
eived to.morrow. .

Lord
.HAwKES4tnty brought up a Copy of the
Definitive Treaty. of Peace ratified between -His
Majesty and the French Republic, His Catholic
Majesty, and the Batavian Republic.

Lori HAWKESBURY said, " It is the desire of
the Executive Government to follow the custom and
t4saV of Parliament; and in looking into the history
-of former times we did not, see any precedent of
•any Definitive Treaty being made the. subjed of a
Motion in Parliament on behalf. of Government, I
have therefore to say, it is not the. intention of His
Majesty's Government, under these circumstances
to institute any proceeding upon this subjcd. I am
aware/ however,- it is fully competent to any Mem—
ber of Parliament, ..who may objet to this Treaty,
•on account of any thing appealing to beimperfed
in it, any of its parts defedive,"or any of its pro-'
visions -being inconsistent with the Preliminaries,
or from any other cause of diSsatisfadion in the
tnind'of any Member of Parliament, it is perfectly
open to such Member, on any of these grounds, to
propose any Moti n he may think proper; and,
indeed, after what has passed in this House, and
elsewhere, there -is reason to suppose that some.
;thing of that sort. 'is intended. On the part
..of His Majesty's Government, I can only at
present.. say, that when the question shall be
brought. forward, we shall he ready to explain the
- whole of Our conclud, in every part of thiS
sadion, and, to state, fully, fairly, and explicitly,
the grounds on which we have thought it our duty
to advise His Majesty to sign this Treaty of-Peace.
But while I say this, I would just throw out, that
if it is intended. to bring forward any discussion up-
on this subjett, I hope it will be brought forward
in such a shape, as that the' whole of the question
*May be before the House, so that the discussion may
be fair and open. We are all aware, in some mea-
sure, and, you, Sir,. well know, that upon intro.
.6cing any separate, or distind Motion, it is in
the pow.cr of the party who makes it, to go into an
extent, or field of discourse, almost at will, into

almost any extent, because, before- the Motion is
made, it is impossible to know, whether it may
not be applicable to the subject to,be discussed, and
credit must be given to ,every Member, before bis
Motion specifics his ohjeft, that he is not saying
airy thing which isirregular, and it is impossible to
confine him to the Motion, because it cannot be
known what the Motion is : whereas, those who
are to follow., are under a strul rule, which is, to
confine themselves within the bounds of the Motion;
by which an embarrassment, sometimes; arises, and
is felt by those who wish to answer what has 14een
said against them ; but which they cannot be allow-
ed to do. Therefore, when I say that we are, on
the'part of Government, ready to meet the discus-
sion of this business; I must, at the same time, be
allowed to express a hope, that if any discussion
takes place, we may rely on the frankness and the
candour of those who bring it forward ; indeed, I
am pretty well assured, it will be brought forward
in a way that will embrace the whole substance of
the measure now before the Horse, for nothing short
of that will be fair and liberal. I thought it my
duty to explain what the intention was of His Ma-
jesty's Government upon this subjea, to which I
ventured to acid a hope, as to the course in which
the measure o'4l be considered. I have no other
Motion ty m:lke than, " That these Papers be laid
upon thejable."

The Motion being put,
Mr. W INDHAM said, that the Noble Lord
had anticipated part of ' what he .was going-w
.say
upon this subjed; and he isinderstood .the course
stated, and the grounds for it, to be such as tnen-
tioned. by the Noble Lord; but he must observe,
however, the Noble Lord had not said any thing
which changed- his mind as to the course ht should
pursue, but which happened to accord with khe ideas
of the Noble Lord, -as he had exyresscd himself
to-night. He should like to have an early day to
mention this matter again; he should propose
Monday next, not for the purpose of discussing the
subjeff, but for the House then .to fit: a day, and
that he should wish not to be--an early dayi to dis-
cuss the whole matter. He did not wish to enter
on a debate on Monday, but he meant it as a mo-
tion, merely to explain the grounds on which the
House should fix some future day for the discussion.
The-question was then put, and carried. .•
Lord HAWKESBURY observed,. that where
documents were laid before the House, by command
of His Majesty, it v,as not usual to move for
printing them, but, he believed, that a printed copy
of this Treaty, either was now ready at the door, or
very soon would be, for the Members of the House,
by virtue of an order made elsewhere.
Mr. f;REY asked, when the Convention with
the Northern Powers would be laid before the
House ?

L9rd HAWKESBURY said, the accession of
these Powers was agreed to, but the Ratifications
were not arrived. The moment they did arrive,
he had no doubt he should receive His Majesty's
command to lay them before the House.

•The`.CH/L\rCE.4.,LOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that in the absence of two Right, -Honourable
Friends of his, one of whom was absent on ac-
count of a domestic distress, he had to apply to the
.Right Hon. Gentleman behind him (Mr. FosTElq
to put off his motion on the subject :t.iris,ll Linen ;
it might, at present, be put off until to-morrow,
and further postponed, if necessary. He wished his
Right Hon.-Friends to be present at the discussion
of this subjeEt, and he was confident, the Right
Hon. GentleniAn would have the goodness to con-
sent to this short delay.
Mr; FOSTER said, he had never shewn any
anxiety to proceed in haste upon this subject.. lie
was perfeCtly ready to assent to this request. He
wished .both these Right Hon: Gentlemen to be
present at the discuSiion of it ; it should therefore,
if the House pleased, stand for to-morrow ; which
was agreed to accordingly. •
A Message from the Lords, informed the House
of their Assent to the Bank RestriCtion Bill.

The SECRETARY at WAR moved that the - Eng_
lish Militia Bill be re-committed..

The SECRETARY a.t WAR said, that the 'Amend:
ments he had to propose, were in' general, 'merely,
verbal. The Resolutions- were then read, and after
some•observations from- Sir ROBERT BUXTON, Sir
WILLIAM ELI,OkI3, 'Joicgs, and Mr. GEORGE
VANSITTART, the Amendments proposed by the
SECRETARY at WAR *ere agreed to.—Adjowned.

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