The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-05 00:00:00

The LOAD ADVOCATE gave his cordial support to the
Bill.

Sir R. Iscus, considering that the Bill involved the
principle of the separation of secular from religious edu-
cation, would vote against it.
Mr. MACOREG At believed that the great mass of the
people of Scotland approved of the measure, and he
should therefore support it.
Mr. COWAN supported the BilL
Mr. CHARTERIS opposed it.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that this Bill did net propose
to separate secular from religious instruction. Its pur-
pose was to enable the Free Church and the United
Presbyterians to join with the Established Church in the
management of schools.
Sir J. CLERK and Mr. Scorr opposed the Bill.
Lord MELGUND replied, and
The House divided, when there appeared-
For the amendment
For the second reading
Majority
The Bill was consequently lost.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned.

137
124
--13

nesTs hwerbeaatpe
vpeerarssbato b
ll
be
ea
ttraacnitseceotmedpaicnt
ttbheat
Hneousbeusoi-f
Commons until the Ecclesiastical Titles Assump.
tion Bill be finally disposed of. A.D. 1851;
will henceforward be celebrated (stigmatized might
be the more correct phrase) as the period of legis-
lative inaction—the do-nothing year. Every ques-
tion, with the one solitary exception, is treated with
the most contemptuous disregard. Except on Govern-
ment nights, Houses can scarcely be formed or kept to-
gether. Topics of the deepest interest and the utmost
importance to the welfare and prosperity of the country
cannot attract an audience, and it is not too much to
say, that one-half of that portion of the session which
has already elapsed has been uselessly squandered
away through a too rigid observance of the rules,
more particularly those relating to the adjournment
of debates, and the breaking up of the House if forty
Members be not present at any particular time,
when a scrutiny into the Members in attendance is
demanded.
As we have already frequently explained, these
regulations were established ter the purpose of pre-
venting measures of real importance from being car-
ried in a ha,ty and inconsiderate manner, and without
full time being allowed for discussion, or by a
swell 2113(1 insignificant minority in the absence of the
great majority. It temperately and judiciously, re-
sorted to, the privilege allowed to the minority was of
a very valuable character. But it has been
strangely perver-ed from its original purpose,
and carried to such an extent that the
remedy has become far worse than i the
original disease. It was very proper that a minority
ahould be protected against an abuse of power by a
tyrannical majority ; but the character of the evil
has completely altered. It is the majority that' re-
quire protection against the proceedings of a factious
minority, who with a reckless disregard of public
opinion adopt a course wholly unprecedented and un-
warranted. They are thereby enabled to
annoy and delay the proceedings of their 'op-
nents, although they cannot possibly hope to succeed in
their struggle. They are well aware that they must
eventually be defeated, and that they are inflicting
serious injury upon the inhabitants of the United
Kingdom in general, but more especially upon their
own countrymen, by stopping all progress and pre.
venting any new enactments from being carried,
except those mere formal measures which cannot be
dizpensed with. But they persist in the line o
policy they had adopted, not perceiving that, to
certain extent, they are playing the Ministerial gain
in preventing the introduction of subjelct
that might not be very acceptable to ih
Cabinet, and affording a valid excuse for any Mi
terial failures during the Parliamentary campaig.
1851.

On Tuesday evening the House again separated
without doing anything, in consequence of 28 Mem-
bers only being in attendance when the SPBAIEBR was
about to take the chair. The result would have been
very different if even the Hon. Gentlemen who bad
notices on the paper had been in attendance. There
is an old adage, however, " that what's everybody's
business is nobody's business," and as it was a duty
that devolved equally upon every Member it is
scarcely surprising that the required numbers were
not forthcoming. Indeed, it frequently requires all
the powers of the Ministerial whipper-in, by persua-
sion as well as by coercion, to collect the fortid No
private Member can, however, accomplish the task,
unless a party question be on the tapis, and the result
is that many valuable days are lost through
" counting out" the House. Ministers, haw-
ever, have hitherto supported these "countings
out" as convenient modes of getting rid
of inconvenient questions, and extinguishing the
rising eloquence of some enthusiastic Member. Ru-
mour bath it that the patronsge Secretary of the
Treasury occasionally changes his functions, and, in
place of being a whipper-in, becomes a whipper-out.
This, however, is but a short-sighted policy, for the
persons thus deprived of the power of bringing for-
ward the grievances of which they complain in the
ordinary course, will avail themselves of their
unquestionable privilege of anticipating the Cio-
vernment on Supply nights. A double por-
tion of time is thus consumed. Hence the
numerous sacrifices perpetrated at the " An.
null Massacre of the Innocent:.," and the emas-
culation of other measures through the want of time
to discuss proposed changes which cannot be co:age
dared amendments.
A Special Committee some time since inquired into
these various rules, with a view to their reversion,
and had the benefit of the Right Honourable
Gentleman who so worthily fills the chair of the
House, and who is, perhaps, more competent to
speak respecting the inconveniences arising from
these rules, and the necessity for their mo-
dification, than any other person that could
be produced. Nothing, however, has since been
done, and we are now reaping the fruits of our
,apathy and carelessness in the unparalleled waste of
time during the present session.
Whatever differences of opinion may heretofore
have existed respecting the propriety of introducing
some regulation analogous to La Cloture must be
completely removed by the conduot of the " Irish
party," who have also furnished sufficient
reasons for removing the power of renew-
the motions for adjournment until a
sufficient interval has elapsed to afford
a reasonable expectation that the opinion of the ma-
jority on the subject had been changed. The non-
attendance of forty Members should also be made a
ground for suspending the proceedings until the ne-
cessary number be present, and not for breaking up
the sitting. If these rules were ameliorated, so as to
prevent further waste of time, and the Special Com-
mittee on the Property and Income-tax, which was
voted a month since, but has not yet been nominated,
should make a proper report on the important matter
committed to their charge, we should not consider
the session of 1851 altogether wasted, although there
Would be but trifling additions to the national statute,
book.

After -esse....
the melancholy failure of the motion made
are b
to the succesay
according to annual custom by the Hon. Member for
we
t f
t?oldnin in ref
no
reference to the cause of national educe-
means disposed to be sanguine as
of a similar of
any effort just now in furtherance
we are
enlightenment. Nevertheless,
pre projec
pared upon all oc •
most discouraging circumstanceseasi"si
and under the
h, to welcome with
cordiality every endeavour,
less, is hich may be advenzeciver apparently hope-
upon in regard to
these long looked-for innovations. The improvement
is too desirable to adtnit of trifling with in the
slightest particular. Therefereit is that weareaolicitous
at all times to go out of our way in
order to
direct
public attention to any undertaking of a character
like the one intimated, no matter what the guise it
itself on its appearance.
may select for Under the
party or of that, of this religion
auspices of this
the other, secular education is always to be hailed as
a boon of the most inestimable value. "Come what
come may," this must ever remain a guiding principle
with ourselves until we see in some measure
realized the majority of our educational aspirations.
It is, therefore, not without certain sentiments of
complacency that we view the proceedings which
,took place yesterday in the Central School Room at
Westminster. Our feelings of satisfaction in the
present instance, it must be allowed, are attributable
to the reflection that these proceedings will provoke
inquiry in the public mind rather than assist in any
material manner in the spread
of information among
the multitude. Such at lit
are our impressions in

regard to the probable influence of the - National
Society for Promoting the Education of the
Poor. This, moreover, we may remark, is
an opinion which may be uttered without
anything like disparagement of the labours, or of
the general efficiency of the association. For, ac-
cording to a very generally received belief, and one
the reasonableness of which must be apparent to the
most mediocre capacity, no scheme can by possibility
be adequate as a means of affording education to the
masses which has not immediately emanated from, or
received the patronage of, the Supreme Government.
Individual efforts are all well enough as methods of
bringing about certain local or provincial improve-
ments; but it is altogether frivolous to imagine
for an instant that they can prove sufficient as a mode
of diffusing knowledge over the whole surface of the
population. Consequently, whatever may be the
success achieved by the society already particularised,
it must inevitably turn out to be inoperative as a plan
for the dissipation of popular ignorance.
Reformers of all times and of all classes have had
to battle with difficalties as numerous, and at starting
as apparently insurmountable as those which have in-
terrupted the progress of the advocates of
national education. It behoves them, therefore,
to be in no way discouraged by their repeated failures
both outside the walls of the Parliament and in the
bosom of the Imperial Legislature. Free-trade doc-
trines were ultimately triumphant over the doctrines
of Protection, notwithstanding the annual defeats
encountered by the Hon. CHARLES PELHAM VII,
LIERS : and Catholic Emancipation was at length
obtained in spite of the defeats endured again and
again by DANIEL O'Cosisteen and his adherents.
It will be well consequently if the Member
for Oldham will bear continually in remembrance the
pertinacity displayed against all kinds of opposition
both by the Liberator and by the Representative of
Wolverhampton. So soon as the measure of the
evil has been tasted to the dregs, so soon, but no
sooner, will the constituted authorities consent to their
removal. Delayed the anticipated moment of change
may be beyond all conceivable conjecture, but arrive
it will in the end as by an infallible necessity, the
most obdurate antagonism yielding at length to
the force of a firm and conscientious per-
severance. An implicit confidence in this is the
secret upon which the ulterior victory of all re
formers is principally dependent. Mr. Fox should,
consequently, cherish it perpetually in his heart as a
consolation under every disappointment, and as an as-
surance of his tardy but inevitable success as a pro-
moter of enlightenment.
A circumstance which tended, of course, to lend an
air of importance to the meeting which took place yes-
terday, in Westminster, was the attendance (as chair-
man) of the Archbishop of CANTERBURY. Under the
auspices of the Venerable Primate of the Established
Church of England, the discussion was conducted
with an appearance of sobriety and earnestness in the
highest degree satisfactory. This may be recog-
nised, despite one or two momentary interruptions
by reference to the remarks delivered upon the occa-
sion by the reverend and honourable speakers. The
fact here notified cannot but be viewed as more than
ever encouraging, taking place, as the assemblage
did so very speedily after the decided defeat of Mr.
Fox's motion on the subject of education. Occur-
e ring, moreover, as it did, in the vicinity of that palace
a of the Legislature which had so recently witnessed
this disheartening, though not ignominious defeat, it
te
could not but be especially gratifying to all sincere
;s
promoters of the cause who happen to be residents
within the boundaries of the city of Westminster.

THE FRENCH REPUBLIC.

We have received the Paris journals of yesterday.
In. the Legislative Assembly on Tuesday a discus-
sion arose on the subject of theEsinENT,s speech
at Dijon. After the usual business
,had been dis-
posed of, the President, M. Duns, made the following
announcement :
The President—M. Desmousseaux de Givr‘ de-
mands permission to put questions to the Minister !of
the Interior, relative to the speech of the President of
the Republic at Dijon. What day will the Hon. Minister
fix for them?
M. Leon Faucher, the Minister of the Interior—Let
them come on immediately.
M. Desmousseaux de Givat—l congratulate my-
self on having proposed the interpellations, for the
promptness with which the Minister accepts them proves
to me that there is no truth in what has been said of
there having been a phrase in the speech insulting to
the Assembly. The speech of General Changarnier,
which has been so well understood by the Assembly,
and which will also be so by the country—(+iiear, hear)
—has furnished the Minister with an opportunity of
declaring that there is neither motive nor pretext for
calumniating the Assembly; but, if in fact the Presi-
dent did deliver the phrase which I have before me, it
would be a grave attack on the dignity of the Assembly.
In pry aereee of the deciarations of the Hon. Minister, I
wuhdtaw my demanu for interpellations. I will now
add a tew words—
The President—You say you withdraw your demand
and ye t y Liu continue.
M. Desmousseaux de Givi 6—l shall only speak on
the order of the day, and I requett the Assembly to
occupy itselt with a proposition which I presented some
time siece.—(leterruption.)
The Prelloent—lt is an establisl'ed fact that the
members of the Bureau have no official character out
of this Chamber.—(Agitation and exclamations.)
M. Piscutory —I do not intend to examine the ques.
Lion as to whether the interpellations are useful or op-
portune, but when once the question is raised it ought
to be settled. It is not sufficient that the Minister de
dares that there was nothing meant by the phrase
which was said to have been delivered, but he ought to
tell us whether or no it was delivered. I therefore ask
the Minister of the Interior positively whether or no it
was the case? (The Minister made no reply.) For
want of an answer I shall address myself to several of
my Hon. Cullealcees—
The Preside-et—You have no right to do so.
M. Piscseory—The Hon. President tells me I have no
right, bat I will remark that the question regards the
dignity of the Assembly, .and I declare that if I had
:heard anything offensive used either against the Go-
vernment or the Assembly, I would frankly declare it.
The Minister of the Interior, with great emphasis—
The Government recognizes no other text of the speech
delivered by the President of the Republic then that in-
serted in the Illoniteur.
M. Desmousseaux de Givrt—lt is then, understood
that the phrase which I have now before me, and which
says, "The Assembly has given me its co-operation in
every measure of repression, but has failed me in all the
measures which I have conceived for the interest of the
people"—it is agreed,al say, that no one delivered this
phrase.—(Laughter and agitation.)
M. Piscatory—l am glad that I resumed the interpel-
lations, for, after the reply of the Government, the
phrase must be considered as null, or that, if it was de-
livered, it is withdrawn, or that the idea of it is retracted
by the Government.—(Bear, hear.) We do not in this
matter obey any party feeling. We do not wish either
directly or indirectly to attack the Government for a
party object. When the Ministers who were at Dijon
affirm that the phrase which excited the susceptibility
of so many Representatives does not exist we are bound
to believe them. There is now only one way of ter-
minating this discussion with dignity, and that is to pass
at once to the order of the day. That is the only
coarse, firm, politic, and honourable, that we can follow.
The order of the day was then put to the vote and
adopted.
A Voice on the Left—lt is a shameful termination.—
(Noise.)
The Assembly rose in considerable agitation at six
o'clock.
The National thus comments on the attempt of
M. Durex to stifle discussion on the PRESIDENT'a
speech :
" The National Assembly, according to the Constitu-
tion, is the first power of the State. The President of
the Assembly is the representative of the sovereign
power. The majority decided that this high place should
be confided to M. Dupin, and it had yesterday an example
of the courage and dignity which the homme d'alaires
of the Orleans dynasty exhibits in the exercise of his
high functions. MM. Piscatory and Desmousseaux
de Givi a declare in the tribune that an insult and
a calumny had been addressed, on a solemn occa-
sion, to the Assembly, in presence of its President,
two of its Viet-Presidents, and several of its Mem-
bers. The President, of course, will either contra-
dict the assertion, or will announce that he protested
against that insult and calumny. No, he perpe-
trates a joke ; M. Dtimoubaeaux de Give: says
he, ' declares that be Oyes up his interpellations, and at
the seems time he goes on with them.' But the Assembly
bad no desire to laugh; and then M. Dupin, in order to
put down the discussion, hastened to declare that the
theto_ Assembly
reprt sentatives and the President of the Assembly were
preaent at Dijon as simple spectators, and without any
character. Tee COCClUbiutt to be drawn is, that
athreeroo.t opinion tibrastult
has nothing to do with the insults offered
M Itupin. Agreed, M. Dupin; we should take but
little notice of • thus offereduntr
ytooyikoeuusp,ecrasorensallliyu,leanadbowue,
But when in an official banquet you are placed
next to the President of the Itsp üblic, it is not
which betrayed Fr
taonctehe in
the old Deputy of the Chamber
without doubt to
Acheto, not
family that homage i
the Assembly that consideration 1815, not to the man of
.procureur of the Orleans
arid,. it is to the President of
ever reckoned on your, courage,eation is manifested. No one
being astonished at your silence
no one ever thought of
at the banquet of Dijon,
but do not endeavour to justif
pretatien the humble attitudeyeebyieuhnniuitabl?
asking ou to account for. The no one thinks of
inter-
let it think of this, that in the circumstances which w
Assemblyiinterruptede by its murmurs the strange argument of M. Dupin; but