The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAt JULY 8, 1834.

Tithes, The former had certainly passed that House. Whether
it would prove a: boon to the farmer or not yet remained
to he seen ; but this he Would say, that whatever benefit
did accrue, it would be some considerable period before it
could be experienced by the agricultural interest. It was
quite clear, too, that the first effect of that measure would
be to call upon the farmers for a considerable outlay in
the building of workhouses. The adoption of the Poor
Laws Bill, therefore, could not justly be set up against
their claim for immediate relief. With regard to the Bill
for the commutation of tithes, he really believed that
measure would have given considerable relief, and he
deeply regretted its extraordinary abandonment. It was cer-
tainly exceedingly hard upon the agricultural interest, whose
distresses were at the least as great as the inhabitants of town,
and whose conduct had been infinitely less turbulent and cla-
morous, not to share in that surplus, so much of which had
been already appropriated to the householders. Nay, not
even a shadow of hope had been held out of reduction in
favour of the farmer. The House was ready enough to grant
money to the Poles, to the Danish claimants, to the heroes of
Navarro, to Greenwich Hospital, &c., yet hesitated to give to
the important agricultural interest that relief which they wil-
lingly afforded to other classes of the community. The
Noble Lord had certainly appointed a Committee to inquire
into local taxation. The report of that Committee was
partly prepared, but it would be too late to act on it this
session ; though no doubt it would afford some partial relief.
He would not trouble the House with any details of the distress
which prevailed in the provincial districts, it was but too noto-
rious and too well known to every Member of that House—
( Hear, hear)—and there was but one common demand on the
part of the farmers for justice and relief at the hands of his
Majesty's Government. Indeed he was sorry to add that the
distress of the present season was much aggravated by the
unusual drought which had prevailed. He urged them,
therefore, to reduce not only the King's taxes bearing
on the farmer, but also all those county taxes by
which he was now oppressed. It was most important,
as the Government was going to try a new ex-
periment, a parochial legislation, that the farmers, upon whom
in a great measure the success of that experiment must depend,
should be conciliated, and enabled by the relief afforded to
give that employment to the labourer which could alone rescue
him from the degradation of a pauper.—( Hear.) He brought
forward this motion from no frivolous motives, but from a full
conviction of its importance, and in the confident expectation
of obtaining, if not a majority, at least such a minority as must
insure an early attention to the subject—a subject which, be it
remembered, had been particularly alluded to in the speech
from the throne, but the expectation founded upon which allu-
sion had been so bitterly disappointed.—( Hear.) The Noble
Lord concluded by moving, " That an humble address be pre-
sented to his Majesty, expressing the deep regret which the
House feels at the continuance of the distressed state of the
agricultural interest in this country to which the attention of
Parliament was especially drawn in his Majesty's most gracious
speech from the throne, and humbly to represent to his Majesty
the anxious desire of this House that the attention of his Majesty's
Ministers should be directed, without further delay, to the im-
mediate removal of some portion of those burthens to which
the land is subject, either through the pressure of general or
local taxation."—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROBERT PALMER seconded the motion. After
the speech of the Noble mover, it was not requisite for him to
enter into the question of the existing distress, nor into the
arguments which so forcibly called on the House to adopt the
motion. The distress was fully admitted in the King's speech ;
and it was matter of the greatest disappointment, that no mea-
sure had been adopted to remove it. He exceedingly regretted
that the measure for commutation of tithes had been delayed
for the whole session, and was again abandoned. It was most
desirable that the tithe question should be finally settled. It
was productive of the greatest inconvenience to the market for
the sale and disposal of land ; as it was well understood that a
commutation would take place : but neither buyer nor seller
could anticipate on what terms.—( Hear.) He trusted that
this question would be adjusted at least in the early part of next
session. As to the relief to be afforded from the Poor Laws
Bill, it must be at least some time before relief could follow
upon it; and giving the Government credit for the best inten-
tions, it was at least a measure, the effects of which would not
be safely predicted.

Lord ALTHORP did not complain of the Noble Lord for
bringing this question forward, and he was sorry to say
that the distress which had been alluded to in the King's
speech still continued.—( Hear, hear.) The motion was,
however, a very vague and general one. It was easy to ask
for relief, but it was more difficult to point out the way in
which that relief could be afforded out of the general taxation
of the country, by the reduction of such taxes as pressed
peculiarly on the farming interest.--( Hear.) He did cer-
tainly promise that it was his intention to apply himself to the
examination of all such taxes ; but he knew when he stated,
as he should before he sat down, what these taxes were, it
would be said that he could afford but little pecuniary relief,
though, perhaps, much vexation. He believed, indeed, that
the severest pressure upon the farmer arose from local, and
not from general taxation. He had, as he had promised,
brought forward the Poor Laws Bill, and the Tithe Com-
mutation Bill. Ile had, indeed, been compelled to aban-
don the latter ; but it was only because the session was so
far advanced as to render it a matter of impossibility to
get through with it. The latter measure he had paid
particular attention to ; and, indeed, he might say it was
more his own than any other ; therefore, he certainly would
not have abandoned it could he possibly have carried it through,
but next session it should have his early attention.—( Hear,
hear.) He did not agree with the Noble Lord and the Hon.
Gentleman, that it would be some time before they experienced
any relief from the passing of the Poor Laws Bill ; and he
differed from them for this reason, that in those parishes where
the amended system had been adopted, the relief that followed
it was immediate. He also anticipated considerable relief
from the adoption of many of the suggestions of the Commit-
tee on County-rates, especially with regard to criminal prose-
cution, of the recommendations relative to which he much
approved.—( Cheers.) But he must frankly say, he thought
it impossible to provide sufficient checks to carry them
into execution during the present session. As to the grants
of money to different individuals with which the Noble
Lord had twitted him, the Noble Lord had forgotten that
many of them had been carried in spite of his opposition.—
( Hear, hear.) As far as the words of this address was con-
cerned, he Gould almost entirely agree with the Noble Lord,
though he could not agree in some parts of the speech in
which it was proposed. He concurred in the recommenda-
tions of the address, but as its adoption would be holding out a
prospect of immediate and considerable relief, he was not pre-
pared to assent to it.
The Marquis of CH ANDO S—l ask for a relief of some
portion.
Lord A LTH 0 R I3—The Noble Lord alluded to the exist-
ence of a surplus revenue. It was probable that there would
be one. As the accounts were not finally made up, and as
this was but the first quarter of the new financial year, it
would be rash to speculate too largely on it : though there was
every probability that the surplus would be continued. If his
hopes were realised, he would appeal to his former conduct to
show his anxiety to reduce taxation to the lowest possible
amount.—( Hear.) But with regard to those which particu-
larly affected the farmers, there was, he stated, considerable
difficulty. He would enumerate those, the reduction of which
might be such as could be contemplated. The first was the
window tax on farm houses, where the farms were below a
certain amount.
The Marquis of C H A ND 0 S—What amount ?
Lord ALTHORP would rather not state what amount, as
he was not now entering into particulars.-. 4 Hear.) It was
his intention also to propose to take off the duty on servants in
farm-houses who were under fifteen years of age. He also
meant to propose that husbandry horses employed in agricul-
ture should be free from tax under certain limitations ; that
farmers having less than a certain quantity of land should have
their agricultural horses considered as riding horses, and
should also be allowed to let their horses on hire without being
liable to duty. He meant also to take off the tax on horses
employed by shepherds, and also on shepherds' dogs.—( Hear,
hear.) He was fully aware of the distress under which agri-
culture laboured, and of the duty of the House to relieve that
distress as much as possible. But really on the subject of
taxation he was at a loss to find any tax of importance affect-
ing the agriculturist, the remission of which he could justly
propose. The Hon. Gentleman who had seconded the Noble
Marquis's motion complained of the conduct of his Majesty's
Government with respect to the corn laws. Now really he
(Lord A.) thought that those who were interested in the land
ought to be perfectly satisfied with the conduct of his Majesty's
Government on that subject, when they remembered that
every Cabinet Minister in that House voted against the mo-
tion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex. For himself, looking
at the state of the agricultural interest in all its bearings, and
considering what might be the immediate consequences if the
motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex were carried, he
(Lord Althorp) had thought himself justified, notwithstanding
the theoretical opinions which he entertained in favour of the
principle of that motion, in voting against it. The majority
of the House of Commons, on that occasion, must have con-
vinced the agricultural interest of their error, in having ima-
gined that Parliamentary Reform would have the effect of pro-
ducing a House that would be inimical to that interest. The
gentlemen who were connected with the land ought not to
complain of the manner in which they had been treated. He
was not sure that they had been right in opposing the motion
of the Hon. Member for Middlesex ; but if it was their opi-
nion that they were right, they ought to be satisfied with the
vote to which the House of Commons came on that occasion.
With respect to the Noble Marquis's motion, it was quite im-
possible that he could agree to it.
Mr. HE AT CO TE, while he felt that the reductions which
the Noble Lord expressed his intention to propose in the taxes
on agriculture would be beneficial, trusted that those reduc-
tions would be carried to a much greater extent. With refer-
ence to the Corn Laws, be had said before, and he would
say again, that country gentlemen took too low a tone on
that subject. The continuance of those laws rested not alone
on the good sense of that House, as expressed by the majo-
rity on the motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, but on
the good sense of the great majority of the people out of
doors. So convinced was he of the fact, that he was per-
suaded a dissolution of Parliament would increase the strength
of the agricultural interest fn the House of Commons. In
the county with which he had the honour to be connected,
o of agricultural
an dwh
there were numerous associations -in
support
them thesubject,
lay, the Corn
interest, who had taken their grouna ..°ll the
o
showed a determination that, as far as in ,
Laws should not be meddled with. -T,n. Mem-
Mr. HUME, in allusion to the statement of the h.. «heir
ber, that the agriculturists in Lincolnshire had taken '
ground in favour of the Corn Laws, expressed his hope and
conviction that the people of England would take their ground
in hostility to those laws. The Hon. Gentleman affected to
fs
auvpopu
ro saeh
lteh at to tthhae gcr
oe
ra
nt majority Laws. Did
Do
dtheh eptehoipnlke of
that
Englandtthe people w e were

England were fools.? The Hon. Gentleman spoke of agricul-
tural unions in Lincolnshire. Trade unions had been loudly
condemned, and yet here were agricultural unions formed for
the parpose of supporting the most odious of monopolies.
The Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer, when called upon
to reduce agricultural taxation, had been unable to find any
important tax to reduce. He (Mr. Hume) firmly believed,
that there was no interest in the country so little taxed as the
agricultural interest.--( Cries of " Oh, oh.") In fact they
paid no tax at all.--( Oh, oh.) The labouring classes in the
country were taxed in consequence of the Corn Laws, but the
landed aristocracy did not pay a farthing of taxation.—( Oh,
oh.) The Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer, al-
though he approved of the principle of his (Mr. Hume's)
motion on the subject of the Corn Laws, voted against that
motion ; and yet the agricultural interest complained of the
Noble Lord. He would give the Noble Lord a piece of ad-
vice. The next time that he ( Mr. Hume) brought forward
such a proposition, he recommended the Noble Lord to speak
against it and to vote for it; and the Noble Lord might be
quite sure that he ( Mr. Hume) would not upbraid him.
Mr. C A YLE Y contended that the associations in favour of
agriculture, which met privately and quietly, were in no wise
to be compared to trades' unions, whose meetings were public
and menacing. To show that the general opinion, even in
manufucturing places, was favourable to the Corn Laws, he
referred to a letter which he had received from Manchester, in
which it was stated that the operatives were not, to be gulled
by the fallacious representations which had been made to them
on the subject, and that the anti-corn law party did not dare to
call a meeting in that place, from a conviction that they should
be greatly outnumbered. He thanked the Noble Lord ( Al-
thorp) for the reductions which he had intimated his intention
to propose in taxation connected with agriculture ; and espe-
cially for the proposed repeal of the tax on shepherds' dogs.
There s ere other burdens, however, from which it would be
advisable to relieve agriculture ; among which was the local
tax in the counties of Middlesex and York on memorials of re-
gistration. Another grievance which was felt in all parts of
the country was the impression which strongly prevailed, that
corn from Canada and the United States did actually come
into the country in large quantities through Jersey and Guern-
sey. It might be said that the motion of the Noble Marquis
would lead to no practical result ; but if the House voted that
they were disposed to give relief to agriculture, such a vote
might lead to a very beneficial practical result. The prayer of
the petitions which had been presented to that House from the
agriculturists of Yorkshire, and of many other counties, was,
that Parliament would either take care that they should be
able to obtain a sufficient price for their produce to pay the
taxation to which they were subject, or reduce the taxation to
an amount which they might be capable of defraying. He
knew that the doctrine:which he was maintaining was unpopular;
indeed he knew of only one doctrine which was more unpo-
pular, he meant that of the political economists. But he was
persuaded that great advantages would be derived by the
country generally, and by the agriculturist in particular, from
an increase in the amount of silver currency, and by such an
issue of one pound notes as, under proper regulations, might
be guarded from the possibility of abuse ; and in these opinions
he thought he should have the support of the Hon. Member
for Essex.

Mr. BARING observed, that the existence of agricultural
distress was mentioned in the Speech from the Throne at the
opening of the session. Yet, notwithstanding that recogni-
tion, the attempts of his Majesty's Government to diminish the
pressure of taxation in the country had taken every other di-
rection but that by which agriculture could be benefited.
I Instead of proposing the remission of any taxes that pressed
upon agriculture, nothing could be so puerile, nothing could
be so directed to useless objects as the provisions of the Bill
which had been introduced by the Right Hon. President of
the Board of Trade, and which repealed or diminished the
duties on dried fruits, on olive oil, and on a variety of
other articles, which (with the exception, perhaps, of
the oil) were the last which he ( Mr. Baring) should
have thought of selecting for that purpose. The course pur-
sued by the Noble Lord ( Althorp) had been highly injurious
to the agriculturists ; for even when the Noble Lord did not
vote against them, he did them as much damage as he could
by the expression of his opinions. There was not one Member
of the Cabinet who had not done the same. It was, un-
doubtedly, true, as the Hon. Member who had just spoken had
stated, that the great difficulty under which the farmers la-
boured was to get a sufficient price for their produce. He
(Mr. Baring) confessed, however, that he was at a loss to un-
derstand how that object could be obtained by an extensive
issue of silver, or how the farmer would be benefited by re-
ceiving 80s., which shillings that extensive issue of silver
would reduce to the value of sixpences, instead of 40s. at their
present value. The Hon. Member then proceeded to argue that
the difficulties of the farmers arose from insufficient prices,
which were caused in a great measure by the large impor-
tations from Ireland. In that country there was an absence of
a great variety of burdens which pressed heavily upon the
English farmers. An Hon. Member, who generally kept his
temper, but who, on the subject of the Corn Laws was not so
fortunate, had made a very uncalled-for attack upon the agri-
cultural associations ; but he (Mr. Baring) felt justified in as-
serting that no Societies could be more harmless. The mem-
bers merely met to talk over their own interests and different
modes of agriculture ; and no proceedings similar to those
which took place in two unions were carried on. They
made no attempt to force particular measures on the Go-
vernment or the Parliament of the country, nor did they
conspire against other classes.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member, having referred to the present price of corn at
Havre, which was 405., and to the price in our markets,
which was about 475. or 505., observed, that when Hon.
Members considered the burdens which pressed on the Eng-
lish farmers, and the small difference between the prices at
home and the prices abroad, they must be convinced that
the agricultural interest was greatly depressed, and that the
prices were not so high as the farmers were entitled to ex-
pect.---( Hear, hear.) Supposing that the corn laws were
abolished, and unrestricted importation were allowed, the
labouring classes would receive no material relief. There
was one subject of importance to which he felt bound to call
the particular attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman who
presided at the Board of Trade—he alluded to the state of
our intercourse of trade with Canada and the Channel Islands.
It had been asserted in the present session that corn and meal
were clandestinely imported from the Isle of Man ; and the
only answer which the Right Hiin. Gentleman made was,
" This can't be so—here is a paper from the Custom-house to '
bear me out"—as if it was probable they would find the details
of a contraband trade in a Custom-house paper. Now he
(Mr. Baring) broadly asserted that the most fraudulent prac-
tices relative to the corn trade were carried on in the Isle of
Man, and he had letters in his pocket which he had received
from parties who could be relied on, and which completely
established the fact. Jersey and Guernsey now sent us corn
to the amount of 30 or 40,000 quarters annually, vtinch was
the whole of their produce, while they supplied their own
consumption by importations of foreign corn. It was the
original intention to allow those islands to send us their
spare produce, but not the whole of their corn, which had
a most injurious effect upon the markets. In the same
way, Canada sent us not only large supplies of their own
corn, but also of that grown in the United States. He called
upon Parliament, if their intention was to withdraw protection
from the English farmers, to say so; but if it was not their
intention, then let them put into practice the laws which were
in existence for the prevention of clandestine trade.-4 Hear.)
The Hon. Member regretted that the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Althorp) had neglected the question of English tithes,
especially as the prospect which Ministers held out last session
had been the means of exciting the expectations of the people
and irritating them against those burdens to a very dangerous
extent. The Noble Lord excused himself by pointing to his
Poor Law measure, from which he anticipated the greatest
benefits. He (Mr. Baring) was certain that the landed inte-
rests would not be relieved by that measure. The principle
might have been acted upon with success in a few parishes, as
their poor, in order to escape a rigorous treatment, fell upon
other parishes, but when the same principle was applied at
once to the whole of England it would not work the same re-
sults. The plan of the Noble Lord would be attended with a
large outlay, and he believed that, after all, it would be im-
practicable. Under these circumstances, how would the
landed interests be benefited ? The Hon. Member concluded
by giving his support to the motion of the Noble Lord, the
Member for Buckinghamshire.
Mr. FRYER (several Hon. Members rose to address the
House and amongst them was Mr. Fryer ; the cry was ge-
neral for that Hon. Member, and he took precedence.) He
reprobated the course pursued. Nothing could be done to
benefit the country unless they left the tiller of the soil a fair
proportion of its produce.—( Hear, hear.) If the tiller of the
land improved the land it was but fair that he should have the
reward.—( A laugh.) Agriculture was not flourishing. The
capital of the farmer had diminished, and the labourers could
not be employed. What was the reason of this ? This was
the question. Aye, the question.—( A laugh.) Why was it
so ?.__Why was it so 2 Why, because the farmers' contract
had been made in paper money, which had been altered in
value by a certain Bill.—(The Hon. Member kept turning
round to Sir Robert Peel, with convulsive motions and gesti-
culations which created mirth throughout the House.) The
landlords had kept the farmers to their bargains.—( Cries of
,c No, no.") No, no, no ; he said yes, yes, yes. He main-
tained that they had. They puffed themselves off for reducing
rent this per cent., or that per cent. ; but this was only to
prevent their being obliged to reduce their contracts. The
Corn Laws were not repealed only because rent must be kept
up ; but what had the people to do with rents ? The people
had nothing to do with rents, mortgages and debts ; no, no-
thing to do with the national debt. The national debt
belonged to the landlords, and the people had no right
to be called upon to pay it. The landlords deceived the
tenants by holding out to them that the Corn Laws
would keep up the price of corn to 80s. a quarter. All
had been taken away from the working classes, in order
to
give to the drones.—( A laugh.) Then came the re-
medy to reduce tithes ; but the House had rejected this, and
yet when the proposition was made to rob the poor by the
Poor Law Billy the House received it with acclamation.—
( The Hon. Member kept reading, in a rather ludicrous style,
from a large paper, and there were jocose cries throughout
the House of " Read, read.") " Ay, ay," said the Hon. Mem-
ber, " I read that I may understand."—( Laughter.) The
Lord Chancellor said to the nobility, take care of your es-
tates. He, (Mr. Fryer) said to the nobility pass this bill, and
they would lose their estates and their lives. The poor in
open day would set ricks on fire in sight of each other.—
( Laughter.) The people were ripe for rebellion ; they were
ripe for incendiarism. What should he say to the people ?
Here there was a cry of " Coercion Bill.")—" Ay, ay,"
said the Hon. Member, " Coercion Bill ; they would not sub-
mit to such a bill; they would fight for it."—( Laughter.)
would be a revolution. There was 16,000,0001. in the
Theis "silks, and a demand for gold would cause a stoppage
Savings' There was but one way for the House to pro-
of payments, -"d the agricultural interests ; he meant
ceesl—t6 throw oVerbess

the landowners.—( Loud laughter.) The House had to look
to the people, and not to any partial interest. The only way
to make the agriculturists prosper was to make them indepen-
dent of the landlords.—( Cries of " Question, question.")
" Ay, ay," said the Hon. Member, " but I won't have question
yet."—(Laughter.) Whether they repealed the Poor Laws
or not, nothing would save the owners of poor lands. The
Corn Law was a wicked Bill. It was an offence against God
and man ; a crime which ought to be punished.—( The Hon.
Member sat down amidst cries of " Questi6n, question.")
Mr. GISBORNE had always pressed upon Government
the necessity of removing those taxes which pressed upon the
land. The landed interest had been enamoured of its burthens
whilst they were a plea for claiming protection. Now they
wished to get rid of their burthens he should like to know if
they would be equally willing to get rid of the protection ?
( Hear.) He recollected the speech which had been made by
the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth upon the
subject of agricultural distress. He had represented himself
as taking a walk with the farmer, and in which their attention
was called to all subjects around them, and upon an investiga-
tion in the course of their discussion it was proved that there
was not one article which the farmer consumed from the manu-
facturer that was not more highly protected than agricultural
produce. He (Mr. Gisborne) contended that the smuggler
was the great benefiter of mankind. He was the only corrector
of absurd and injurious commercial protection.
Mr. ,H AWE S could not reflect upon the speech made by
the Hon. Member for North Essex without contrasting it with
a speech which he had made a few years ago, in answer to the
Hon. Member for Yorkshire, in a debate that had taken place
as late as 1828. The Hon. Member, who now represented a
large agricultural interest, but who then appeared only as the
first of British merchants, had made a speech in direct opposi-
tion to all that had fallen from him this night. He had attri-
buted the fate of Holland in the scale of nations solely to her
high corn duties, and he had asked how it was possible for men
to come to that House night after night and demand an increase
of protecting duties.

Mr. BARING explained. The speech alluded to had been
made by him, not in opposition to a protecting duty, but in
resistance of a demand to augment the then rate of protec-
tion. He did not possess a single acre of land that he had
not possessed in 1828, and therefore he could have no inte-
rested motives for the view he had just taken of the subject.
Mr. PETER did not think the more intelligent agricul-
turists required alterations either in the corn laws or in the
currency. The diminution of price was sufficiently accounted
for by the increased quantity produced.
Mr. HANDLE Y should be surprised if the Noble Lord
( Althorp) entertained the opinions which he expressed. If he
did entertain such opinions, the agriculturists were insulted, with
a cruel mockery when a sentence was inserted in the King's
speech, expressing his anxious wish to relieve them from dis-
tress. He had seen the observation made in a certain periodical,
that the King's speech was like the Royal touch in the king's
evil, namely, a panacea, and the insertion of a few words in
it was sufficient to remove distress. Probably the Noble Lord
entertained this opinion. The Noble Lord promised in the
early part of the session that some relief should be afforded by
the remission of taxes pressing heavily on the agricultural in-
terests, and that relief would also be afforded by the change in
the poor laws, and by the commutation of tithes. What relief
had been afforded to that interest by the remission of taxes ?
The effect which would be produced by the alterations in the
poor laws was doubtful ; certainly any relief would not be im-
mediate from that source. The commutation of tithes was
likely to afford relief, but that had been thrown overboard, and
there was no probability of its being carried into effect. The
Noble Lord might afford relief in some respect, namely, by
putting a stop to the present system of surcharges. This evil
prevailed to a great and most vexatious extent in his part of
the country. He recollected that in his county (Lincolnshire)
an innkeeper bought an old carriage of a gentleman, which he
used as a postchaise. He forgot to erase the armorial bear-
ings, and the consequence was that he was surcharged for
armorial bearings.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He should support
the motion.

Mr. METHUEN felt anxious as the representative of a
large agricultural county to state the reason why he could not
support the motion. He was on all occasions anxious to pro-
mote the benefit and advantage of his constituents ; but he
could not support this motion because it was in great measure
a party question.—(No, no, and Hear.) Hon. Gentlemen
might say " No;" they were right if they believed he was in
error, but it was his conscientious belief, and on that account
he should oppose the motion.
Mr. W. D UNC OMB E thought that the imputation cast
upon his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Chandos), and those
who supported the motion, were the most unjust that could be
uttered.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. METHUEN appealed to the House whether he had
imputed motives.

Mr. W. DUNCOMBE understood the Hon. Gentleman
to charge the Noble Marquis with having brought forward the
motion for party purposes, and of course all those who voted
for the motion were actuated by the same views. He (Mr.
Duncombe) rose to deny the truth of any such imputations—
( Hear, hear)—and to say that the charge was most unjust ;
and he was convinced that if there was one man more than
another who was actuated by higher and purer motives in his
public conduct, it was the Noble Marquis.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
His Noble Friend had not brought forward the motion to be-
nefit the landlords, but the farmers, and he deserved the thanks
of the country for his conduct.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Duncombe) thought the repeal of the Malt Tax was well
worthy the consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had given the House to
understand that he was favOurable to the repeal of the Corn
Laws ; but he (Mr. Duncombe) would put it 'to the Noble
Lord whether he would vote for the repeal of the Corn Laws
as long as the agricultural portion of the country was so much
more heavily taxed than the other classes ? Until he saw a
disposition on the part of the Government to relieve the agri-
cultural interests from taxes pressing so heavily on them, he
should oppose all change in the Corn Laws.—( Hear.)
Sir R. PRICE did not suppose that the motion had been
brought forward with any party feelings, but he did not think
that any advantage would attend their agreeing to it at the
present time. At that late period of the Session it was utterly
impossible to repeal any taxes, either local or general ; but he
thought it was most satisfactory that his Noble Friend (Lord
Althorp) had promised to consider the Report of the Com-
mittee on Agriculture, and see whether he could not grant
some relief. Under these circumstances it was hard to press
him.
Mr. WALTER supported the motion.
Mr. PLUMPTRE should support the motion.
Major KEPPEL had hitherto heard no case made out for
the motion, as all the observations he had heard were vague
and indefinite.
Mr. HODGES should oppose the motion.
The Marquis of CHANDOS, in reply,unequivocally denied
being actuated by any such motives as had been imputed to
him by the Hon. Member for Wiltshire.
Tho House then divided—

For the amendment 174
Againstit
Majority against the Marquis of Chandos's—
motion
On the re-admission of strangers to the gallery, we found
The SPEAKER putting the question that the Resolutions
of the Committee of Supply for granting a sum of money out
of the Consolidated Fund (as we understood) for the Irish
Church be agreed to.
Mr. HUME should oppose the motion for agreeing to those
resolutions ; and he thought that every Hon. Member who
voted for the last motion, for an address to the Crown pray-
ing for a general reduction of the taxation of the country, was
bound to support him in this instance.—( Cries of " Oh, oh,"
and great confusion.) The landed interest, as well as every
other class of persons in the community, would be greatly
relieved by a general reduction of taxation, for taxation af-
fected all interests alike. (Cries of " Oh" and " No.")
The Government had no right to call upon the people of this
country to contribute to the support of a sinecure Church
Establishment ; and he repeated, that those who supported
the last motion were bound to vote with him on the present
occasion.—( Renewed cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter.) He
hoped the House would not consent to make any such grant
out of the Consolidated Fund for any such purpose as that to
which this money was to be applied.
An HON. MEMBER denied that the motion of the Noble Mar-
quis meant a reduction of taxiction.generally.
Mr. HUME insisted -that 'it did. •
The HoN. MEMBER asserted that it did not.—( Hear.) Tile
reduction of taxation proposed by the Noble Marquis had re-
ference only to the landed interest. and therefore the word
"general" was a humbug.—( Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. C U RTE I S never would, and he was satisfied his con-
stituents never would, consent to pay any portion of the Irish
tithes.—( Hear, hear.) He was bound to give such a propo-
sition every possible opposition, and he must say that he
thought it most unjustifiable to call on the people of England
to pay any portion, however trifling, of a burthen which ex-
clusively belonged to the landlords of Ireland.
The gallery was then cleared, and the House divided. The
numbers were—
For the motion lBl
Against it lO6
Majority

The resolutions were then agreed to.

Mr. LITTLETON postponed the Committee on the Irish
Tithe Bill until :to-morrow (this day). To prevent misun-
derstanding he begged to say that it would not come on until
the evening sitting.
The Registration Bill passed through a Committee.
In answer to a ouestion from Sir R. INoLis,
Mr. BROUGHAM would fix Monday next for the discus-
sion on this measure. The report was then brought up, and
ordered to be taken into further consideration on Monday.
The House went into Committee on the Lancaster Court of
Common Pleas Bill.
Some verbal amendments were agreed to.
The House having resumed, the report was brought up, and
ordered to be received on Wednesday next.
The House went into Committee on the Admission of Free-
men's Bill, which was reported to the House.
The report on the Merchant Seamen's Widows Bill was
brought up, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on
Friday next.