The Sun.
London, England, 1805-02-13 00:00:00

I

if it
!3ri
sive

I

--- was bOtITICI to do, what required expla.
nation. The Learned Gent. receffitulated the grounas
pi' the Hitimaytproceedings of His Majesty's
remittent; the clistind breach of the conditions of
cur forbearance, and. the refusal of a satisfadory ex.
planation, which we •had a right to demand. An H, ne Grotleman*(iVir,JOHNSiONE) had charaderized
the detention of the frigates as nothing less than pi.
'4cY, tut till 'some new code was-established among
Nations entirely different froth that which now
tzistede 'he would maintain it was an ad ex. th'Pt lesre.ceilsure.. The. non.perfortnance of the
tionclition tequired,.prechided all necessity Of-a:De..
taiiln.
.War was declared by the agreement, on
the deviation from the terms. If there was not there.
lore a right of War on .the general ground, there
would have been by the Convention. It was • said,
%,','e know the contents of the
,Treaty with France. '
It war true we had .reason to presume What the con-
:tents were,. and the reluctance to disclose them was
,r)additionel reason, to surp-tse them' hostile to- us. '
Intimation of the general tenor of the Fatnily'Citrn
Pql was given by the. Anthavador Stanley very
.',nlYi. but the conditions of it were not • made
,tilowi n so so9Nand when they were, they were found
!•-11, iostile than was expeded, because they did not
' olve Spain in the War then existing. Vs
ere
Ns in built •
nt.: * • eases a right to demand explanation. i
to:.`"l3%tutiched on the most important point, he
11;:s It9ln a regard to the time of the' hoUr, • eV.
veleta frotn entering on many which he would
wished to, remark on asdid • t belt.
, they no
murk 0 ' .
n the tn3in question. lie concluded with.;
146,, or_ ,
ihaun oral laying his 116u1 on his heart, he
, alit the Government and the Country dully
jaltil in the steps that had beta taken, that there
' ,
Nwt,lStinc° bre'ath of 1,11111, • no violation of the 143L►v of:
ha" i'nli OW the !loaner and charader of the Nation e!iertcot"elneasvervel aiel mainta• ined ihroughont,: Ile'
du.l of ft :,h is vote In approbation of the c6n.
then Id ! iesty''s 'Ministers, and he thought
ivee „,.. , ,
of
breach
Ravi} 1 een guilty a of the !lust,
rel'itZdii:l,..!!!:m if they had .kCed otherwise,
tit time
_Lifil. wi.thout
.apologiz,ing fair -taking up
uL the [louse o a `tibied of such import.
w,is 1 , . n E . ..
Ind, ii`e4runned to take it up as little as pose,
riii,latlce:e: 'otnv'elliwchouilitluigo
ofucrctuhrercr,d andin state:le, that circum.
Debate 'this
1,,,t u Particularly what had fallen from the
tiozrnart
shortened
who bad spoken last, con.
ie,pot Y. It?rtened what he had- to say. Withi
onoto4110).e
_I e. other paints, the SpeeCll of 141
1 F tend who had moved the Anlenu•
is
kennt Pil r,,,, ; • - .
el 1 r'9ll--- wai entirely tininsvVerel, and
' the */.."`'e,,l.sn_
ioe so ab;olutely unan.swerabld,,, by
1.11(1.
Prudent! Geotlemln who spoke :last, and
in answer nlly, abstained from' offering
.any thing
"ith rile t° it, "lbese cif.' trn' itincei • tOrsether
he spec ,i ~ • , tt,.
,'.
~,!,
ki,„ c. t°l nt3 4 elirp.d erterd i. Jr. LAW-.
enligliliteLn4.63atti,inding SU ITI°U-Cil 'in knOwiedge, not only
tit Iflleed'ufo Liu litn.nane aitd liber,ll, left 'very lit.
italuin, ~,_ I. nun to advert to. What he, on ex.
110,44
..r7,1, considered some of the most excep.
tilt of trtitiii:Viines in the statern.nt at. the begin.
which 4t,,,,, 'bate, had been now, he could not say
een tow
,iau:oned or refuted by the [Von. Gentle.
cliattn,,,''
.1 juit or
dosvit. 'When he heard of a
hltiii't',_,,beitween tin engagement of suspension of
en itele heard
aii engagement of Neutrality, and. flan, in of that distindion *9 ~2 thing that
that to
iiii'm !letter condition, and .Spain, in, a worse,
Ivartitni,, !vas the language of fraud, and theie
via% ,4.ngstlarge or liberal about it. But when it
the Aothal,3 tuftion from I_,lrd Fla`wkeshury . that
I.44idst aii.lia. of should preserve, the right
.of War
',tona pN„...leNegi)(iatiOTlS, it was the most mon.
'.'ette,,,f Gentling that ever had-been known. The
Lith, (st ~11euent who broke On the other side last
iet, • rJOIt ri N
Piety of !cisme e), did not.deny,the im.,
'llf with s.uch a reservation, bat contented him.
;literli into itY lug, it was not necessary for him to
intimate:, and as fat as. lie understood 111111 p
)44 Leitnedi„ that. he would, not support it.—
't did no, keentlernan who spoke last, with wit*
di • tab, itr every thing heltad said on this
fa, ' did'not at, ,
non. : --cript to do away, what .was in
~1
t,,„_, 4---stionfao_
et et thisco_ kec, that there was an agreTtent be-
tkliended for"ny and Spain. .On the.contrery, he
round
of the
the eflic _
:ley of .that agreement as a
'lie the e.' ,e ['resent War. He did not bear from
Wet. stinoio,, laid
1:• not to t) ' down yesterday, that we
1438td aver . e suPposed to acquiesce in what: we had "Oletx„res,".l silence, He did not hear from, him
iiillit.ity.l'otie'illur which were clatraderistic of*a.doe
Ile (4, ''e,,was sorry to say, Will the most COil.,
reinen.."lre Its :the whole of these transactions.
pitigi 'mitred in .
an ancient tregedy a person coati.
bele ng thet IL-
Wtt) hi Lie language of . duplicity had been
40 yak::: and wishing that the Gods had given
ktie4ineci
to one to spcak the truth, the other eon-
fod Isor pieput;er the language of falsehuode It
tht,esley to*n7 the Creator to form mankind con.
~,,:.1* that had, I'"ii &Sire ; but there was still ,soMe.
, tl ittlatit„,, the effcd of it.. For 6013'0- tintli
i,::et the,,,,.,70u Were riot uttered with different voices,
a bili,onete expressed. in different language!, and
I,,sucland'_,,arY were.to be formed of the language of
" jltinoLuttlhat tiftrutb,there could not be astronger
t,lteff„_`"
.san that silence in that of fraud wouldnot
flotittlinheSiadtCtet,leoStleewnce,and that the omission of entering , elates , ar was but the waiver of our right ,
Ini, ent,inord 1,4 Y.
rrili_ order to resume it at a future oppor.
, ppy t.
i, e lion, and 'Learned Gentleman, he was,
n'utio " RnOs placed the question on a different
ttnu!„,. el°, titheelisticd laid down a remote and proximate
,i4l at WV 0_ el)4 recently taken. The remote
Oit'att tise",`..tte,lty of St. Ildelonso. The prux.,
ndiy,
chow two : first, the Armaments ; and
tk eh te'.4;',,t. Ire
of the Explanation.—
tit% wil"",,, `_' to the remote cause, he was one of.
wutuo „iti;'a agreed', '. that the Treaty - of Si.' Ude'
4444 rennunene4Qa:fns,ive Treaty ; and that unless ..ii
~ eetne__:__
..v sa;its ae just qame of War. But
!ikw.glitra4fric'nig,eii'rtnyTttl,s. the , Fargily, Compati,- he
of trtnore fintsci::4 "entferneti not right in saying, .; tale '.4.e peintit
~/ . 1 though th,,t,
_peklAapsolhis One
n Itltlon. Hut
.that,, did not bear on the Min
Willy (111/14n tic'ipt I.t not
the i-lon. :and Learned
foni•eotif„}te,,tlinut atteed to all the parts of the Fa.
114 . shine rt;l► when he said, it did not require the::
trap g ' sucefeir - '
it, ti ef the c :1 on demand, witliota expla.
Ili 'j at"-erQioje., NVii Ile the it'd'
:4, ~
.. ._._ e .
~ C r wt ~
on „___/ wee ritre4tly,suelt he knew nnt but
~
w4l thev.avtverlt,:caritLltAri.ntrofelle lea' roily scornpet.l ,
.
ul Olen to- it he wall knew... 77-

);,
.

The Treaty of Ildefonso Was tifreuSiVf.,,,lmi give a
-right of war ; but the, apeation of pollay „Mingled
in this' iriatance with the consideration of hiimanity.
It was agreed that the policy of this Country was: to
avoid a 'war With Spain, and it was a policy in which
he had the honour to concur-a' hue not in the eoerse
that had beenaaken.- Theal-lon. and Learned Gen.
tleman did not. think the conduit of the Govern.
merit altogether necessary to be taken into the con.
sideratidn. He differed from him. For•when His
Male ty communicated to the House, the War, and
not only' the. general. -grounds of the. War, but
also'the conduit of His Maje Sty% Ministers, the
examinaiicin and judgment Of both was open to the
House.= He Old -not like -the- Leiter of Lord
Hawkesbury to Mr. Frere, authorising him. to
demand explanation, but allowing him to give no
assurance in returrd. ..An Hon.
,Gentiern in (Mr.
BAtixEs) bad argued that Spain, in this Negotia.
tibia, Was bound to.evinee candour, and that Bit.
rain was boundaiwsbew vigilance, which it ever
world, and of the same time, jealousy, suspicion,
and reserve. This was altogether new ; for if there
was any one thing peculiarly qoalified to produce
aits like,- it was candour. But if one Party was ,to
be frank and the other,doubtful, he knew not what
to think of those who laid down such a reciprocity.
Witch ftanknest -Was asked, it was .but natural' also
to give it. This was not the Law of nations,
nor the Law of Enghtod, but the ,Law of our
lieirti;which 'eatuld not be' extinguished. or alteaa
ed but Ay-- the -'
annihilation of our existetice.—
' Whtn we ask
.for fronkoess we should sliew the
exaniple—when we- calf for unresirietinesa- we
ourselves deal' with sinceti6' and-casadour.
was .a conduit not, diiiiited by any precepts ,
the, Law' oe :Nati,ins, but arising our, Of- the
prin'Fiples of Wl' nian nature. He "saw-1h1: the inai
:struitions 'Havikeabity. to Mr. Thre, that
, .ti as tlireite,l to dernand-iali:iinreserved communi,
caki6n from Spain, a "corumunication which he'could
not 'obtain,. its. Mr.. Frere gave no explicit. cNPlana-
tion to Spain. This was What was to he regretted,
Inasmuch as until such an ckplanation was given, it
was-in vain to e.x.ig.-;:t niy freedom:of .communica.
tiOn ;'and it was "not till he" had- 'read the- Papers
on the Table that he. thought, any, person could
exited confidence withoot, tuanifesting sincerity.—
As thet conduit which His Majesty's' Go.
veromena had to pursue, there appeared to him but
one of two lines for them to follow a The first was
sinaple, and was merely a, peremptory declaration 'of
war unless the Treaty of St.. Ildel'onso she:J1111 be
formally renounces]. ''The second was more complex,
buvrtit le's, likely to advance lheinterests' of. this
'Cohatry.. Witilat the dispositionof Spain 'to eon.
,time ma terms of -amity wish us lasted, and there
cotildbe- no 'doubt that bar disposition was at first
aMicabla, to asur4s .411- have been. taken traframea
in coa j;u with ,aystemof Neutrality
that staaultt set:axe her fra,)m.,,iing'jltrewn into the
scale ajainst us ";1 his could not do albrie;
this 019 c .old am-sit-range.without our advice, nor,
possibly, after being thus framed,. oat upon it with.
out Oirr 'assistance. Its was, riat.,',nor Could it Le, the
interest of Spain to' afford France any,. succours.
which she could avoid.. Ittiraatten he satin that frcim
the ad of June to the a4ali :of September Lord
Hawkesbury had furniNaea ao forwarded
.no further to. Mr. Frerevas 'to the nr;a..
.sures he wasto take : with ;coital to twit Power,,
aabaaspuld he say, but Oat there was a Minister
at the head of affairs who left every thing' to:chance
during five -months, and had made ins _ effort to
avert those hostilities which had at length, unfor.
tunately taken place ?: And what is five months ?
A apace within which France had compelled SPain
to enter into a Treaty, 'by which 'she commuted
the succours --stipulated in a former Treaty for a
Subsidy. ' Of this Treaty early intimation had
sheen given to our Minister—and wittr•what view I
Undoubtedly for the purpose of. obtaining advice—. ,
Undoubtedly fur the -purpose of procuring assist.
ance, that- Spain' if -she might happen to 'disoblige
France, could say that she bad done every thing
to satisfy the wishes of the Kiogauf Great Bri.
Lain. , Mr. Frerc knew fif this Treaty. the itch
of September, he was made acquainted with it again ,
on the zoth, and yet not 'one Word'of instruition
.badbeeti received, by Mr.' here on that head' till
October 24. And what was the consequence ?
The Treaty was conchided without his advice.—
But it hacl'beetithe business of ' these days, with
the exception of the Hon. and Leonia Gentleman,
to tax Spain, whether impelled by force Or iodine_
tion, with having done more for Fritne titan she
wits bound, by converting the' stipulated succours'
.under the "Freaty of St. Ildefonso into a 'Subsidy;
though this 'qitestion did nor belong to his present
putpase, he could not omit to notice it. The ques.
trop was not what Spain had in this instance dune
,fot France, but what she had done' foraEnglancl.--, ,
Had' she not reason to 'supPose that England would •
'have been better pleased at her contribuiing the Sub.
;tidy than supplytheauccours ?*Ost the contrary,, was
it not snore likely that it would be 'more aatisfailory
to the Government of this Country that even a con.'
siderable SabOdy'should be paid in lieu of the stia',
pulated contingent I On this ground, -therefore, he.
complained,on the part oiSpain,that if it Was thought
Jay .Ministers thatthe Subsidy would be more inju_
Huila to this Coubtry, than the succours, no intitsta:'
tion of it boObien given 'to Spain. She tirok' what
she looked upon as the course least injurious tei
After all that had b-en said by Mr. 'Freye on the
subjeil, after all the calculations of 'the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, yesterday, he *Was still of opi,
nion that- Spain had Jtidged right, not as to the
"mint of fait with respeft to tile-injury of either to
England, but 'from what it had reasOnto' suppose,
the sentiments of H.'S Majesty's Government. 'This
opinion he futinded on two letters from Lord Hs,,vkes-
bqy to Mr. Frere, and do various parts Otthe Cot.
respundenCes, which, to save the time of the House,
he should not then trouble them :with qtf.)ting; and
a.s he did not, mean to Make, any intentional rais.:state_
inept, he tiliould bot;) the correaian of any
HOn. Gentleman, : In one of these Jetters Lard •
Haw kesbury instruils Frere, in eat
should be taken to fUrni;...ll the coati 'gent ti. Vrance,
to. leave Madrid; which t,) t)-60.
r.ttion of Nyat ; no so t howerdi,,
diddled in the event of the
,g6:,t less Subsiity.
"if, LaritilitAkslbusyl,,:.l,-.,,,,A
tontitigens succours as .i 'ittriton: 1 for a thctatiti.oll.

,-•
tie Velar, Whilst he ;passed over the caee .Of the
Subsidy, than he contended that . the Spanish-
Government had judget,t—right, netwithsiantling
.all chat had been said'on • that subjetl• But what
He complained: of most aunt; that His Majesty's
Ministers, with , their esnai distinaness, had. not
ekplained their wishes on this head Sufficiently---.ncit
at all to she Spanish Cabinet.. If they had seen
the predominant influerwe, us, rather, according to
his opinion, the pre:lambi:int power of France in
Spais, was likely to give a 'direelion to its Mea.
sores, 'they ought to. have conic to seine de,
terminatien, whether it was better to continue
. the Neutrality, ,or, as they term 'it, their for.
berance; .or to declare War at once. In all the
disCuisions with fespeet to Spain, it appeared,
that she had submitted to what she thought the
mode least injurious to this Country; and it was pat
culiarly advantageous that the should have been
made acquainted. with the opinion of the Govern.
ment of this Country With respctl to it. But nothing
had been dune. Allowing the situation of Spain to.
have been difficult, .some elf ,rt ought to have been
Made toassist her; yet she had been left to herself
till the time when she might, by circtitnstanees,
enabledto disengage heiself from the difficulties in
Which .she was placed. Here he could not
,avoid
adverting to. what
.had fallen from the HO. and
.Learned Member respeeling Ole condo& of Spain
towards the close of the American and
with resped • to the opinion of the Opposition of the.
day. It was usual,. in . speaking of the conduet. of
Opposition at any one time, to attribute the same
principles .to the existing Opposition. What the
:sentiments of the Opposition ,to which the Learned
Gentleman had alluded. had been, he could not fully
call to . mind ;• but this he trusted, that when the
present Opposition should be no more, and the con-
cluti of future. Oppositions. might be animadverted
upon, it would be said, that they ..did not, resemble
the virtuous Opposition of ,iffos. (The Hon, Gen.
Orman here adverted particularly to The cit..cumstances of • that period to justify the opinion
he then held,) He contended, thar the influence
which France then had over Spain
,was quite different
from the influence
:which it at preient possesied, fer
direeling the whole of its poWer and.reiotieces
' theiprotholic,n of its-own objeas. . ;As to-what had
been observed with respe.a to Portugal, he would:
ask, whether it was not justis 'bk.-to connive at the
subsidy extorted from that PoWer. The smaller
P6tvers either attach themselves to the greater, or
were obliged to-do so; and
_where there was no evi_
dence of the maims animus, their weakness should not
be. made the ground of resentment, Vengeance
should be •diretted against she great offender—
. .4 Let the little bark, of tenter sail,
" Pursue the tritoph.and partake the gale.".
He remembered when-the young, Archduke Charles
• .
of Austria was signalising his military talents in
Germany, that many Ministerial advocates in this
Country claimed a share imhis triumphs, in virtue
of two millions of money chat had been sent out of
the country without the consent of Parliament (a
loud Pitigh). When Spain commuted its contingent
tor a Recuniary subsidy, it was natural to suppose
they •Would make that as light as 'possible, and it,
'could not place themin a different situation from that
in which they hail 'stood by she 'Treaty of St. Ilde.
I.,nuz 4'l'i to the quantum of the subsidyi be agreed
with the Learned Member, that that was very little
,
to the purpose. It' the Treaty of St. Ildefonso was

a giound. of. war, lie asked, whether the change of
the stipulAte3 contingent of that Treaty altered that

ground ? 'Lind )übtealy nor. But he did not think
it possible to ivaive the right in order to urge it at
i more convenient time. Mr. Frere, it appeared,
had not bcen instruaed to declare war, and yet he
had done so, He hoped and trusted, that the reason.

ing of theLta rned Gent. had convinced the House that
a.declaration of war pending discussions ought nor to
be justified without previous notice. The &duration
of war by Mr. Prere, w ithout iostru&ions, had
brought a'Negoriation to n cmelmitin which.might
have been condoned to an amicable adjustment.—
The princilale of waiving the right. of war -till it
should be convenient to act
,upors! it, seetnrd like
laying up causes or grounds of war in a bureau,
where Ministers could, at any convenient time,
find caUse'B, cause C, or cause D; when n'tcessarY.
He agreed:with the teatned Geittlebtan, and with
his Honourable Friend (Mr.' GRET),, yesterday,
and his Learned
~Friend Dr. Lisw Reticle,- this
day, that the two Notes of Mr. Frere amount.'
e 4 to an agreement; and in very pointed terms':
reprobated an expression in one of Mr. Frere's
patches home, that because nothing he had com-
inooicated tvarranted M.! Cevallos's conception of
the it;i4reettient, he had not protested against the
declaration of this cooceptiOn in any of his Notes.
If M.
,Cevalio.; had been right, there would have
been no 'occasion for any explanation ; but As he
fell into a misconception, an exPlanatton of his.
error was absolutely necessary. Lord Hawkesbury
also appeared to.have
,pursued' the sante conduit
with ! respea to a similar tnisedncepiioti of M.
Andodges. ' It Might he urged by Mr. Frere,
that he had avoitled-'explinati.m tesr Ire Should be
considered captious;.but for hiMself he should prefer,
being considered • either captious or cavillous,•ra.:-.
rher than to suffer such a miseuoception to cbntinue.
As to tic regoisition that had been !rude to the
Spani.h Court, he thought it important- that
the House should noose to some decision. M.
• Cev-allos instantly gave up the Sale. of
m and as to stionaent,• daclaredi that none inju.
rlous to Great Britain, sht,uld be entered into.—
He agreed !to one of the demands on Mr. Frere's
own fermi, and to the other witb some otialifi.•
cation; and M.'i!Cevallos n>t cltoider him.

self boon& by the proposition of Mr: Frere, hut
by till own staterneta, which he looktd upon as
I, admitted (The Hon. -M.,.m1;,..r here, referred to N‘
severA Of the ropers to illustrate his positions).'
caulcl net, begging 114 c Leasned .Member's
laarcl ;7, but consider it B loose 'way of talking,'
to lay so u.tUch stress on conversations, when there

were wo Notes, atnountiog to an-agreeinera

to be

I,trutd to. ft appeared to him that. M. Cevil.
los hat. not engaged not io unit but ,ito.rts not to give'
unihrge to Great Britain. M. Cevallos's,Notea.
the wth- at July_ only denied armaments such as
could '•xt.ife the_apprehension. of- this Country; ankt
whatever might he the prid?. of Spain, he cou!d
not hive iinapned that till wir.eic power,ofSktin-

eouhl Ravi..been.otherPi4ge

ethan as an auxiliary tei.-France, an,l in deeeinel et?
"AitNnients.for that ehjsit, width ;were -the only,
ones he ever coneeived to have'been, under dise,
• ctission, he must have felt that he gave sufficient
satisfaClion to out Minister. As to toe use •r"-the
team Convention • appearing = in Netts, which e
had been riptesented by the
,Right: Honourable
Gentleman oliposeite as a . Confusion of ,a suppos
.agreement between Spain and ..this Country win'
the Convention of the toth of Gift. with France, he
supposed the mistake might .have arisen from the
incorrect trals:ation of the N ite. As so
much 'sttess had -been. laid on` this agreement, in
the '.turn- which tire 'Debate had taken since the
opertiag, in which lt lied beer. itidustrinusly.placed
in theback ground, he would put it to the Learned,
,Member, whether, if considered with reference re-
the two Netts Of Mr. Fterer it could be taken in the
'cOmptehensise sense- in 'which he had' regarded it"?
The Learned Geeclinan and onother Learned Gen-.
tletuan last night bed talked of a conditional decla-
ration War. There were Many 'CASCO in which
he could Conceive' the propriety of such a decla_
ration, as at the ending' of :a: Truce; or eta core
rain future period in the event
,of a 'stared condie
tioo not being complied with previously, or under:.
more complicated clicumstancese such .ts if, for
•instance, a licit were nut to he rerneviel within
certain time from 'one 'given port toeanother. Tn
all ;these cases the declaration would be explicit arel
Clear, but he contended that such a declaration otieht
not to be made" in the case-of Negotiatians
might lead to an amicable adjustment of elle-matter
in dispnee, and that the ale.cieration in= the instenee
under discussion was fat from being clear or explicit:
The Hon. Gentleman further contended,. that
ever- fairly considered the situation of Spain, the
difficillties and' calamities of every sort with which
.she had tie' struggle, and 'afterwards seriously be.
lieved that she laboured to evils Armaments under
such circumstances to annoy this Country, such a per_
soneoidd not be exceeded in credulity by thesimoleet
.of dupei. Could sending three Ships' from the Be. •
son -into the Mole, and these three Ships only half
manned, be seriously lOoked upon as an indication
Of such hostile armament and intention ? Nor was
it so absurd as argued on the other side to send troops
in such Ship. If se, it was an absurdity
'of veleich we ourselves have frequemly been guilty., •
As to the information received from Admiral Cache
, rane, he was sure that Ministers did Riot believe the
whole of it. Whet he asserted abotit Carthagena
and Cadiz, n4ost certainly they did believe.. `Aeto
the Subsidy 'granted in lieu of the contingent in..
`Troops, and 'the Convention with France, the
tendency of which was affirmed. to besso noxious,
why, if it was understood to be of that unfavour.
able nature to-Great Britain, was no official inqui.
ry made into it till Oelober last ? It Repeats, in.
deed, that Mr. Frere had some conversation .about
, this Convention,, but not a trace of such a'con.,
versation is to be found in the. Letters upon the
Table. It consequently is not known whether any
intereiew took place between him and the Spanish-
Minister upon 'the subjeil e or whether any written
&Mend was sent in respectings it. Soon after Mr.
Fiere's- recall was determined upon, because his
conduCt was disagreealsle to the Spanish Court.--and
by whom w.e.elie replaced ? by his brother, sed the
brother his S:fcretary, who consequently was privy
to all his disputes with 111:1Spaill,11 Ministry.' Could
any appointml.trit be more absurd, especially w hen.
a Gentleman was appointed ass Ambassador to
that Court in every respect qualified for the situa.
tion, and, who might be •ready to set out on 'the -
notice of a few days. But it -wasnrgent to make
the new demand tespeaing the Convention. `Mr.
Frere was ordered to make it ; and if an immediate
answer was not given his instru4tions ,were to quit
Madrid immediezely. But did not Mr. Frere
know the substance at least'of the Convention ? It
certainly appears that he did, and even mire than
the substance, for he roundly asserts there is-no
article in it respedieg Portugal'but one. It is said.
the detention of the Spanish
..Frigates was merely a
measure of precaution, and 'not an aa of War.—es
Is the detention of merchantmen in our Ports to
be .considered in the same light . as the seizure
of Frigates in the . open seas ? Would it be
thought so if the British Flag was treated in the
same manners What is taken' may be restored;
but-honour tarnished cannot be repaired : can you re..
store the lives of so -many persons, whose lot it did
not seem to .be to encounter such perils, who have
been sacrificed to this measure of precaution Surely
all this proves the excellence of the old praitice of
a Declatation of Weir.. Af such attacks are to be
styled customary measures, all 'War is a measure
of precaution:e The Wateof the succession was such
a tneasure, The seizure. of Ole Frigates could nor
be looked upon its merely a measure of precaution—
it was e direr` measure of. War, and he defied
.all the • learning and ingenuity -opposite him to
prove the contt Iffy. -.But it has been pretty generally.
objeited, that .thusc who hold secle language tend
to asperse the charaCler of the touptry.,- But if such
.conduiq is not to be cinsassed, for what purpose
:does-this :House meet ?Is nut the House now a's.
.senahled to deliver en opinion on it ? Does net the
whole of 64; Constitution depeni upon-the' cons.
(pence and credit attached to the opinion of the
ptsevc)opllZt.otses of Ea
or,
t;rtl,cutlietaite
incmnlianne h d they to delude
Aie the
tiiey
to spe:)isetheir own mind, or
,only sUch sentirnenta as
may beeacceptable to Government IL!fOre you
convince the people of your sincerity, pet inlest first
prove you ere sincere. Far his part he could nut
.afford abetter proof of his. stainers conviction that
Ministers hail aided rashly. ,tttid unjustly in their.
conduit towards Spain, than ,giving, his cordial
sepport to th Amendment of his lion, Friend,
I fir CHA4'VGELLOIc ,of the • latI;i1EQ(.711:1?
then rote to, reply. He began by saying, that he
should nut have to tr,luWe the tbuse long, after the
very able speech of his Learned 41113 lion. Friend
(Sir W 1141.1 AM GRANT), w ft scrircely any objee-
dolt unanswered, and whose arguments he should
not weaken hx. any uneeeessary attetnot to repel,*
them. :He denim that Chere Could be discovered

the lesst Wiiiitcver tittweeri his

blamed Fiend and binvirlf, when tiffs opiniurvi tyve
rcf.cued from pervemon. t? oor forbeltanct.t
-

tov-ards Spain, it was all along attended with a
cautionary C4lldition, and if 'th.cy deputed but one

riav from this rtraition, e.ur aight of tv-te was to be
etti;,reed. In all the explanit'iicins which had t;lken
place; an Azteinnt,was made by the Spanish Court,
end by those who now adopted their arguments, to
hind us by their words, and not by our :own.
Was that impartial justice. ? They acceded, how-
ever, to the conditions imposed cw ,them by, Mr.
Frcre, 'which were clearly this, that there should.
.Ist' no Armaments. `This the chief condition;
and thehteatli of it gave us a Jireit right to revert
to the hAsstility of which we had- pre-adritonished
them. -When we saw the. ships equipped.; when we
beheld theen alongside of the enemo fleet, and pre.
pared toatecompanyendco-operate wit's them in any
enterprize they might meJirate against this coun-
try, from what could we judge but from allele ap.
pearances. and< what but these appearances
,could
suggest. the means by which, we might counteraft
their designs'? . arc we not to lOOk to the proba•
bility of an hostile intention until we feel the effects
of its exeeution ? Hatt Nee negleCied to adopt precau-
tions to frustrate, it, should. we not have, drawn
down upon ourselves the censure and the indigoa.
tion of, the friert.,'s of vigorous 'measures ?---But it
seems that the ships at Ferrol were only' half
manned. This objection is taken from advices sent
by AdMiral Cochrane.. In order ground 'an ob.
jeCtion upon them, poly some of
.the' has he
ad-
dentato are Stated-7411e Others are omitted. The
Admiral at the •.same time informed us, that the
answer respecting them: fe on the Governor of Ga.
lists was eva;ive ; that it must strike us in that
light ; and he adds that the crews of miss, of the
ships wete in. the vicinity of Ferrol, and that 'they
might.be assembled.at a'iy time in the course of a. few
hours, Could they then be said to be only half
manned; or were we to wait until the armament had
grown-.up from its infancy and attained its confirm.
ed manhood/ But Spain would not now aft in eon-,
cert with France as she might be supposed to hare
done in virtue of the Family
,CompaCt ; ahe would
not now, AS then, sec end her ambitious. views,--1..
Whyvbeceuse tale now tears France, 'Whom she then
loved; is • not fear then as strong Jot affeCtion, and
does it not of te'n produce much. Stronger 'effeds
What could Spain expeCt from her teliderness, after
seeing the Manner in which she treats her own sub-
jehst.But it is said, if Spain paid the money, she
,did not furnish, the contingent. Might not France
require'-both, if the-.granzing of them served any,
immediate purpose, and thus be enabled to strike a
given Now in., a very few days,..perhaps acquire
temporary 'superiority,
,over our Squadron; put to sea
and secure the arsivel-of the Treasure Shir; indesd,
the situati hatialmost.arriVed, and, probably.ethey
would have accomplished their objtel.; but not a
rise nent was to be lost, and it it bad been Lost, the
Treasure Ships w 0t5.41 have., been safe: .for, when at.
tacked, they were already in sight of. CAL% Sup.
pose .we hart let:the,.:Friptes come in, and allow-
ed the aruiamenes to go on,, the' Simoish ships so
)-nin those of the .Enemy, and to. sail together with
them to Brest s suppose they were there 9!nPloYel
to swell the expedition destined against ,Ireland, and
that they bad Hataally suc'eeeded in eifeaing a land,
ing t had we Waited :fur farther estplanittion, and
negleCted the alviees of Admiral Cochrartr,' in what
posture should' we now 5-rand, and what face should
weTresume to put on before the friends of vigilance
and vigour ? But, thank God, we now are consci.
ous of being placed its a different sitinearrtOttelii-
that coosei,)usoess'wr do,. nut hesitate to solicit the
opinion of
,the House.upon our cantina.
Fix anti, Mr. PITT f(everall); exptained; after
which, the questi,o being loudly called for, the
house divided,
For Mr. Git r Amerattnent, 106
Against it, 3 1 3

M,,jority for the Mini.,ter, .307
The. pf igio,a Motion fur t4L. P,,d,tres's was then
put and coried,
Adjourned at Six &Clock this

Attntytt—t Leewarji Islorvip Dui-4
• burgh, t Dublino $ W44tollord.

T E SU N.

(41.;16 rA.L,ium AUD:i.Atr ?

L oNDO Ar,