The Sun.
London, England, 1802-05-14 00:00:00

N
UMBER 301'1
-....._____

INPERI/IL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF PEERS,

THURSDAY, MAY 13.
t 4,71" some preliminary business of an unimportant na-'
111.-
was disposed of, the Order of the Day, tor taking into
el:4lsideration the Definitive Treaty of Peace, being jead,
tiorISTANHOPE rose, and-made some general iserva.-
112 on the subject, in the course. of which, he expressed his
°tPinion, that the Treaty ought to be. taken into considera-
.iiTtn,.; and adverted to a circumstance which took place in the
Con-rv3l between the Signing of the Preliminaries and -the
,
trie„Ausica of the Definitive Treaty, namely, the appoint-
or' of the First Consul of France to the nrst Magistracy
thtfle_ltaim. n Republic, and se,-Med, to think,.that in rcality,, i4ecir.cumstance made but very little addition to the French co„. rin Italy. He, however,
.had some important !a.Ct_s tott. dis,'lnlunicate to the House relative to the pending subject 0
tission, which he wished to communicate to their Lord-
*" S alone • he, therefor • moved the Order for the exclusion,
e. tit , -
12-h,erdMerrlsOf MOIR adve:ted to the,great and general pu-
tVt`eterest of the pendic.g discussion. and expressed his hope,
forettithe Noble Earl was- not determined to have the order en-
Illitrl St AN w oPE replied.' in efireC7, :that he made up
.his
oft/c1 upon the point, acid was confident as to the propriety
proceeding he suggested.
T"e i,ne strangers were, in consequence, ordered to withdraw. 1,, exclusion took place about an hour, when
.the doors
ere opened. On our admission We fOuncl
• Lord GRENVILLE speaking.—His Lordship,
In the course of a
delldelivered vet y able, argumentative, and
h '
hours speec, which Occupied nearly three
4tßl an hall, delivered his sentiments upon 'the
Ivery
important stibjed under consideration, Our
skestet riQed limits confine us. to a very brief and general
fro ell of his Lordship's speech, a4ll preclude_
trn touching-upon any but a few of his leading
c:ints. He set out with she Wing that he "should
I,°,l),°se a declaration on' the part of their Lordships
eF 'le most decisive language, that the provisions
ti,the Treaty ought ..to be kept inviolate-by 'this.
N"i'trY—it was not in- his. intention to pro-
liatise any thing tending to censure those who
t 6 - framed the Treaty.—His intention was
11.1 exhibit to the view of their Lordships and
tv,, Puklie the real situation in whichs the Country
ati: Placed by. the Treaty. under consideration—He
ti,i;lerted to the -principle's on which, consistently
I\l,l the maxims of Wise and enlightened policy,
I,llcitiations should Proceed, but which unhappily
and .e present instan6e had not been attended to,
t}l some degree were' reversed-7ln,theopinion.of
ttiatfiate Lord ChathaM; the Preliminaries should lie
plc rie Is definitive as possible, 'but here that princi_
Iv, -41 nor prevail.; many grelt leading points
referred for discussion in the Definitive Nego-
ttl,-,'". The interval was produEtive of such cir-
q as not Only-should excite the vigilance
lir'isters, and induce them to render the Defini-
ter .tirdavourAble to
,thiS Country'
hgTreaty, but obliged them to keep
tre'ter force in the West Indies, even double
kteunuituber of ships which it was necessary to
turhd tlier.e :it any p,.riod of the War. He cen-
the policy which induced Ministers to
able such circumstance to takeplace. Consider-
kwstress seemed to be laid on
.the tone and temper
tia„.ife&ted by France in the conduEl of the Nego_
ara'"i but the experience of the last six. months,
Ole 4i'view of her measures at this. moment, when
t'%ci,,,;si as far as she can, endeavouring to
how""e li its from the' commerce of ,Europe, spew
attle reliance should be, placed on them.—His
41Dizmosfi'ltPlie then referred to some of the leading t 0..,
Negotiation, and observed upon them in
DandifFering but .little from whit he had
Ta.d.:"
te,,,ced ill his former.speech upon the subja.:t.—W ith
tlitry to the situation
.of Portugal—lhe indern-
pti,to, the Prince of Orange, which seemed
....th'P"ily to rest upon the good faith of France
he' ef
cession of the Cape, which, he argued, would
ttitc)t, the molt injurious tendency in respea to
exlne lndian commerce, particularly the latter,
to Patiated on somewhat at length.. With resped
/20talleel surrender of Malta, and the arrangements
.
11)(4', lot its ftiture gOvernment, he argued more
r4itt'l, considering it as eventually given up to
tint), e ; and entered into a variety of calcula-
Tahi' ri,lostly drawn from documents upon the
Iv6,lli'e that the present revenues of
the Island
.posed 'II infinitely short tf maintaining ,the pro--
respe establishment.,: He then adverted' to the
kilt:live stipulations in -regard to the inhabi,
kenc the ceded Colonies, and contended that the
..tveref' took due care of .the interests of 'thoS* whO
itter"lnerly. Under their dominion, when a due
h3' uws t"
to the same obje& was not manifested
tuner:---lie censured thatstipulation respedingPri,
t,}l War, t)y which we were made to pay for
Nertluil"nent of a corps of Russian troops, who
'44t,,lnteneed by the Enemy to:aft aga ,inst us. The
the 7rY Provisions of the Treaty of Utrecht against.
I,Vt:tggrandiseinent of Fiance in America and -the
vialnclies, and for the security of our Commerce
Ifat 5y its (Natter, were, he said, in effea, done away
non,renewal. However, that omission did
nliis'Ply renueciation of rights on our part.
he, applied to the Gum Trade,
4
should also find ourselves deprived of.
ante 'ut'woo'd Trade, he argued', would be in the
l'3werPredicament. After noticing the .recession of
to filch France had accuired in Italy, he passed
tl'e
tNel unf4v(Jurable tendency which' the cessions
t°
in France byl_the Treaty, must berof to this
mutry
Obsery a commercial vieW ; and many of those,
t.'ar "17 were valuable stations in. time of
e which, once relinquished, must.„, if at all,
111114i:tIroe„hciass,e..idwa? the. dearest rate.—A great par? of
" r argument resneaed the important
the Cts 01 tile Sove'reignty of Great Britain in India,
rc
of _
of that uarter, and the Navigation
1/4111et q.
seas with resped to these, which 17a een Pro •
or ,„ 31 and
_.l- riy adverted to in the Treaty of
it `uthrne :114 Inanner upon which he passed a, degree
not soon
nd also in the Convention of 1787,
uch signify what;- We thought of

them, as what Holland and France thought of them
—and what they may, di) in these respests. With
regard to the • sovereignty: of India, he recom-
mended, that speedy steps should be taken in the
way of amicable' negotiation, to learn the intention
of France on that point, and to adjUit What may he
Matter of dispute; the importance of which he sheyi,cd
as well by statement of faas and financial Calcula-
titins, as by a variety of arguments. He contended,
that
,by the cessions of M ait,i, Minorca, deal the Isle
of Elba, we had excluded ourselves froni.theMedi-
rerranean, leaving the French masters of the:-LeVarit
Trade, and at liberty to renew their designs upon
Egypt. He also adverted to the consequences',Of
the accession of Louisiana to France; . and 'the vir -
tual,' if not aCtual, possession of Florida: IFla.ving
touched upon these various topics,..and tcd
upon them, more or less at. length,' he seemed 'to
express his opinion, that he was the decided advo-
cate of an economical systern, and pointed out how
several of the arrangements which bad 'been Made.
were unfavourable thereto, of 'the propriety of
keeping a Peace Establishment on foot commensurateto the peculiar situation in,which the late Peace had
placed this Counrty ; and after adverting to a nurnii-!r
of collateral paints col-met-led with the sirbieel under
discussion, he, concluded by moving an Address to
His Maje3ty,'Similar in effe;:t to that moved in the
House of COMmons, and to which we refer.
The Address tieing read by the Lord ChandellOr,
and the Question put,
'l).•uke of NORFOLK rose to 'express ;pis 'dew
cided 'oppoSition to the Address, and. disapproba-
tion of the 'tendency of Many of the, argunients
which 'fell 'froM the Noble Lord ; as au indiVidnal
Peer; he sincerely thanked those who brought the
blessings Of:Peace to the Country, and which he
seemed to think was, in a great degree to be ,attri.
buted to, the 'removal' of the sate Ministers from
His Majesty's Councils.--=—He urged ,their Lot dships
not 'to countenance the proposed Address, which
would otherwise create the most unfavourable ef_
Peas throughout the Country it wls, •in faCt,
calling' upon them to go Co, War again, and telling_
France,• with whom we • hthd concluded' a' solemn
Treaty of Peace and Amity, that we Meant to dis-
cuss every point therein Which was left to future
arrangement, in 'a' way 'little short -of having drawn
swords in our hands. He did expea to hear of
some great and material difference between the Pre
limivaries and the Definitive Treaty, but such was
not the case. It was. not with a reference to the'
way in Which icirmer Treaties, were settred, or
the opinion of statesmen in fornier times, who.aaed
under circumstances very different from the present,
that-the Tieaty befors.,, them was to be ctys4ero,
All the circumstances of the case should 'be looked
at, and we shoUld judge.of the merits of the Treaty
with reference to those. He expressed his hope
that we should not go' to war again for particular
stations in the Mediterranean, Or for such small
spots as the Isle of Elba, &e. Under thtSe• im-
pressions be would move as an Amendment, that' ail
the words in the Address, after humbly advise,"
should be left Out. On this Amendment the Ques-
tion being put, -

Lord PE-1.1-1 Altl rose, and in LA able and argu_
rnentative speech of some length;observed.upon the
material points of. the Noble Lord's 'speech who
moved the Address ; he aid not feel it necessary to
follow.. the Noble. Lord through the wide fielrof
argument into which he had entered, as deem-
ing many of the points irrelevant to the real ques-
tion before the House.—his Lordship glanced at the
Mode in which the discussion had been introduced,
and seemed to 'express a degree of surprise at the
nature of the Motion now brought forward by the
Noble Lord, as different frOni what he had reason to
expert : from what had' passed, his anxiety was
greater than ever that a speedy decision should take
place, as, in, the opinion of the Noble Lord, the
question, of Peace or War was in a manner still
'pending4. He wished not to misrepresent the
Noble Lord, hut he understood him to say, that the
MotiOn.was necessary, in order that the people might
feel that the present was a Peace only' in. name. A
vein of-disapprobation of the Peace was apparent
thrOtighont the whole Address, and from- the Noble
Lord's speech he colleCted his opinion to he in one
point of view, against concluding' any Treaties at
all, .and in another, the mode of Negotiation was
, the subje& of his censure. For his part, he thought
the true Question was, How far the. Definitive
Treaty was, or was not, agreeable to the prin-
ciple Of the Preliminaries ; but in the course of the
discussiOn, he considered the Noble Lord as avow-
ing himself an enemy to the Peace.
Lord GREAT r LLE, rose, he observed, toset the
Noble Secretaty of State right. He had not utter..
ed a single word upon which such a construCtion
could be put. The Address exhibited a direftly
contrary opinion k it spoke of the conclusion of the
Peace, and also of the tranquillity which was
established.

Lord PELHAM proceeded, and obserVek that
.the Noble Lord had certainly attired upon the Com-
mercial disadvantages which.the Peace had brought
about, and asserted the adimaages in those respects
which France would gain thereby ; this? he thought;
was arguing against the. Peace. However, ifhe
misunderstood the Noble Lord, he Was sorry for it.
One; principle pervaded the Noble Lord's argu-
ment, which he thought highly unjustifiable, name-
ly; the as.snmption that whatever we ceded
to other ,countries; was hi faCl given up to
France, and on that hypothesis, much of his
reasoning was founded ; and he censured the man-
ner in which the supposed dispositions of • our late
adversaries vas alluded to in the A'ddress. He Made
a variety of observations. with resped to the. Cape
and Malta, and drew conclusions with reset to
their relative importa-nee, and the consequences-of'