The Sun.
London, England, 1834-03-01 00:00:00

hoped the house would support the right hon. Secretary
in his propositions, and in so doing, they would probably
arrive sooner at the result contemplated by thebon. mem-
ber for Middlesex, than if they acceded to the reduction
proposed by himself. On this occasion especially, the
right hon. Secretary deserved the support of the house, as
it was the first instance of the government yielding in the
number of the army to the wishes of the people of
England.—(Hear, hear.)

Sir H. HARDINGE was as anxious as any man to
make reductions in the army when reductions were prac-
ticable and safe, hut he would not give his support to any
reduction which he thought would cripple the efficiency
of the army, and thereby endanger the safety of the nation.
Oa this occasion lie conscientiously give his support to
iii government—(Hear, hear)—and he was happy to be
able to do so. The force required to be kept up in the
kingdom depended on many circumstances, and among
others, that of reliefs. It was impossible that so many
men should be kept in the colonies without having a
regular system of relief for them. If the number of men
in the colonies could not be reduced, it would be necessary
to uphold the reliefs. When there was only a sufficient
army kept up to admit of those reliefs, he should consider
that as the minimum of reduction.—( Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that at present the army was, in that view, at the
very minimum.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that one regi-
went, the S3d, which was just now under orders for
Canada, only returned from India in 1829, after having
served in that country for twenty-four years, so that it
vas only five years at home. In the same manner, the
47th, the 30th, and he believed the 54th, each of which had
served 24 years—nearly a quarter of a century—in the
burning climate of India, had each of them been no more than
.rive years at home, when they were sent aeain on foreign
service. He considered that no service like that of Eng-
land, in this respect, could he found in ancient or modern
drum It was not for a popular assembly like the House
of Commons to decide upon the army necessary for the
service of the country.—(Hear, bear.) It was necessary
that they should have confidence in ministers, and allow
them to use their discretion in that respect. He lid not
mean that a blind and unlimited confidence should be
placed in any body of ministers, but merely that they
should be allowed a certain degree of discretion upon the
subject.—( Hear.) When he looked to the reduction made
in 1822, he found that it was in a great measure forced
fiy a vote of the house in 1821 ; and when that reduction
was made, the late Duke of York addressed a public
functionary upon the subject disapproving of the measure.
(The hon. and gallant member then read the letter, which
stated that in consequence of the insecure state of the
colonies, he disapproved of the reduction, but that he
thought the experiment should be made in compliance
with the wish of the House of Commons.) But
what was the consequence of that reducion ? That
in the very next year the army bad to be in-
creased by 4,500 men.—(Hear.) When the estimates
of that year came before the house, ten to one of the
members who voted on the question were in favour of the
reduction, yet next year, when 12.000 men were added to
the army, the members who voted for the increase was
106 to 5. With reference to what was said. regarding
the estimates of 1830, he felt bound to state that the
estimates of that year were smaller by 20,0001. than the
estimates of the present. The Right Hon. Secretary for
the Colonies stated that the staff of the army in the colo-
nies had been considerably reduced. It was true that in
1829 and 1830 considerable reductions were made in
the staff of the army, but these reductions were made by
the late administration, and he thought he was safe in
stating that, with the exception of the staff in the liMian
Islands, no putt of the staff of the army in the colonies
had been reduced since the present administration cime
into power. In tl e three years previous to 1830, reduc
tio_s had been made in the home department of the service,
to the amount of 700,0001. He admitted that that re-
duction rendered any further reduction more difficult, but
he could not but state it, as credit was taken for still
greater redactions. He believed that he was safe
in stating that the right honourable Secretary at
War had only bee❑ able to reduce 30.0001. out of an ex-
expenditure of 6 000,000/. He did not mention that as
attaching any blame to the right hon. gentlemen, for he
(Sir H. Hardinge) believed it to be impossible to make
further reductions with safety than he had made. He
should take an opportunity at some future stage to ask
the right hon. gentleman for an explanation as to some
details. There were some of these details which he should
think it his duty to oppose, although in others he per-
fecrly agreed. On one subject he wished to say a few
words before he sat down. It would be in the recollec-
tion of the house that he (Sir 11. H.) was one of those
who always opposed the
,buying up the pensions of officers.
—(Hear.) He always thought :the practice as not only
improper but cruel ; and he believed that the right hon.
gentleman himself would allow, by this time, that he was
correct in his opinion. When they came to that part of
the estimates, he should have same questions to put to the
right hon. gentleman on the subject, which he hoped he
would not object to answer. There was a part of the esti-
mates to which he wished to refer the right lion. r entleman.
At p. 73, it was made to appear that there was a saving of
51,000/. It would be found, on strict inquiry, that the
real easing was only 19,000/. He would suggest to the
right boo, gentleman to look at the manner in which the
ordnance estimates are made out, which were remarkably
distinct and clear, and might yield a useful hint. He
observed, that the hon. member for Middlesex stated that
he had understood that the commander-in-chief interfered
unduly with the Secretary at War. Now he (Sir H.
Hardinge) could say, that so far from that being proved
before the committee, there was a total absence of proof;
awl he appealed to ail the members of the committee then
present if that was not the case.—(Hear.) Then, with
regard to the remarks of the hon. member on the Lile
Guards, it was perfectly well known that the Life Guards
had been for 20 years a corps distinguished for their
bravery. It was not till then that they were brought into
a situation to display their powers ; but when they had
the opportunity they soon fought their way to honour.—
(Hear, hear.) As for the Foot Guards, every one would
admit that there never was a better disciplined or better
behaved corps, or one more in harmony with the feelings
of the country. As to the expense of the guards, he
could show that it was !As in 1834 than in 1792.
(Hear, hear.)
Col. DAVIES rose amidst loud cries of " Question."
He declared he could not support the amendment of his
hon, friend, the member for Middlesex, and he hoped
that hon. member would consent to withdraw it.—
(Question, question.)

- Mr GISBORNE had come down to the house with
the intention of voting against the motion. He had, how-
ever, changed his mind from what be had heard that
evening, but he must say, the speech of the right hon.
baronet had not strengthened the resolution to which he
had come of voting for the motion.

The house thendivided--
For the motion
Against it
Majority
The house then resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported pre
gress, and obtained leave to sit again.
The House then Went into committee on the Smuggling
Act Alteration Bill.

Airer a short conversation, the gallery was cleared, on
the motion of Mr. F. O'CONNOR that the consideration
of the subject should be adjourned till Monday ; but no
division took place, and we understood that, during our
absence, the bill passed through committee.

MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT (COLONIES).
' Camel DAVIES, a select committee
inquire into the military establishment
the colonies and dependencies of the
,f the following members :
'Tennyson, C. Fleming, Admiral
Buller,,C. Ebrington, Lord
Fox, Colonel Maberly, W. L.
Grote, G. O'Connell, Morgan
Potter, H. Ward, H. G.
l Evans, Colonel Lefevre, C. S.
IGodson, R. Grey, Colonel
Hay, A. L. Gisbome, T.

On the ini,tion o,
was appointed to i
and expenditure in
crown, consisting o 1
Davies, Colonel •
Stanley, E. J.
Ellice, E.
Hardinge, Sir H.
Parnell, Sir H.
Byng, Sir J.
Dunkin, Sir R.
Hume, Joseph
Guest, J. J.

SINECURE OFFICES.

Lord ALTHORP moved the appointment of a select
committee, " to examine the papers respecting sinecure
uffices, and report their observations thereon to the
house." The noble lord added, that be should recommend
that the pensions granted by Parliament, by way of com-
pensation, sheuld nut be included in thct consideration of
the committee.

Mr. HUME thought the committee should take into
consideration all pensions, by whomsoever granted. Such
pensions as were desetvedly granted might be continued ;
but the people were enti•led to have the benefit of every
possible chance of getting rid of those pv.nsittns.
Lord Allhorp's motion, however, was agreed to, and
the following committee appointed:-
41001 T, Viscount Fremantle, Sir T.
Graham, SirJ. R. G. Oswald, J.
Ruthven,E. S.- Ewart, W.
Baring, F. tsomilly, J.
Grote, G Lambert, H.
Peel, Sir R. Palmer, R.
Pendarves, E. W. Scholefield, J.
Hume, Joseph Sebright, Sir John
Herries, J. O. Knatchbull, Sir L.
Mosley, Sir 0. Evans, G.
The LORD ADVOCATE obtainec
bill to regulate the appointment of mit
in Scotland erected by voluntary comr
may become parochial churches.
Mr. GREENE obtained I. ave to bring in a bill to abo-

Ord, W.
Mildmay, P.
Beihell, R.
Nlarbhall,
Roche, D.
Duncannon, Vise.
Bannerman, A.
Lennard, T. B.
Morpetli' Viscount
Steuart, R.
I leave to bring in a
sisters to churches
ibutions, and which