The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-22 00:00:00

The Members' Plate of 50 sous. Heats two mites, anti a

distance.
Col. Cradock's brother to Homer :2 I 1
Mr. Morley's Palmflower
Capt. Pott'e Sparrowhawk 3 3 dr

A good race. 6 to four on Pairnfl)wer after the first
heat, and 4 to 1 on her after the second heat; 3 to 1 on
the winner.

KNIGHTON RACES.

THURSDAY.-The Hunter.' Stakes of 5 sore. tad), and
25 added. Heats, one. round, and the long distance.

Mr. Gabriel's Master Henry, 5 yrs. I- 4 I
Mr. Moss's Doubtful, aged
Mr. Clay's Heir-at-Law, 5 yrs.
Mr. Jones's b. g. by Master Henry
Mr. Wilkins' The Infant, 6 yrs 5 dr.

. _
A free handicap of 5 sovs. each, with 20 added. Heats
same as last.
Mr. Burton's Catlap, 4 yrs.
Mr. Price's Dandina, 6 yrs.
Mr. Price's b.rn. by Master Henry 0 2 bolted
Mr. Jones's ch. c. by May Day 4 3 dr

The first was a dead heat, the others severely contested.
The Ladies' Purse, added to a Sweepstakes for the beaten
horses. Heats, once round, and a distance.
Mr. E•anc'c b. to. by Ambo, aged
Mr. Jones's b. m. by Manfred, 6 yrs.
Mr. Weyman's b. g, by May Day, 3 yrs 3 dr

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE-(THIS DAY.)

FROM LLOYD'S.

DEAL, JUNE 21.—Wind W.S. W.—Arrived the Forager,
Mitchell, from Jamaica; Stirling, Brown, from Demerara;
Nancy, from Riga; and Falcon, Udale, from London for Rio
Janeiro. The Eliza, and Counted of Tweedale, from the river,
sailed this morning for the westdard.
PORTSMOUTH, JUNE 21. —Wind W., freSh.—Arrived the
Aurora, Dawson, and the Rubican, Daniel, both bound to
New South Wales; and his Majesty's ship Salamander, from
Chatham, and sailed for Milford. Off port the Sceptre,
Howes. from Gibraltar.

PooLv., Jurie 20.—Arrived the Atlantic, Barber, from New.
foundland ; and Dwina, Matthew, from Memel.

FALMOUTH, JUNE 20.—Wind N. W. to N.N. W. moderate.—
Arrived the Goose, Jones, from Newfoundland and Cadiz.
BRISTOL, JUNE 21.—Arrived the Tom Cod, Pierce, from
Africa.

LIVERPOOL, JUNE W.—Arrived the Annandale, from Ben-
gal ; the James Lyon, from Barbadoee; the Mary Rowland,
Aikin, from Savannah ; the Liverpool, Row, from Patraiba ;
the Robert Paulsford, Pratt, from Newfoundland; the Han•
nah, Shaw, from Mobile; the Colonist, from St. Andrew's,
New Brunswick ; and the Ulysses, Kennedy, and Martha,
Kelso, from Charleston.
BELFAST, JUNE 19.—Arrived the Campbell, Eskdale, from
St. John's, New Brunswick ; and the Puget, Barnes, from
Cadiz.

NEWRY, JUNE 20.—Arrived the Traveller, Falkner, from
Dronthem.

The Hero, Harrison, from Liverpool to Newfoundland, was
!ost on the banks about the 11th ult.

The entire village of Bonneuil, in the depart-
ment de l'Oise, containing upwards of 100 habitations,
'MY been recently destroyed by fire, which originated from
tegligence. The Echu de ROUIPI also records a terrible
!ordisgration which lately occurred at Fenquieres, in the
iomme, from some red-hot scoria in a blacksmith's shop
estling on some combustible matter, by which 29 houses
vith all their furniture, and a grist mairobit of farming
~tildings, implemen a, and wools> weft OGINIVIIMtIeme
French Paper.

nIPER !)kRIAAMENT.

HO USE O F LORDS, JUNE 21.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
uaamtm after five o'clock. •
The Quakers' Affirmation Bill was read a third time.ft
The Bishop of LICHFIELD and COVENTE4YO,p7r:i
-rented several petitions, from places in his diocese,NA
slavery.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, frosts room circumstances
that had transpired, he felt it his duty again to say a few
words upon a subject to which he had formerly raked tire,
attention of the House. Sometime ago he had felt it lb
be his duty, in consequence of assertioils 'Made else-
'where, apparently from high anthority, tout the French
had made no engagements Ns to their possession of
Algiers, to move for the correspondence between the
Governments upon the subject, most of which was
now on the table of the House. He would say no-
thing more at present upon them, than that he was will-
ing to leave them to be interpreted as such language as
they contained had hitherto been done by men of honour,
sense, and integrity. There were other papery 'to
existence which would clearly show that nositive
engagements on the subject had been eonfirrfed not only
by the King of the French but by his Ministers. The
Noble Earl opposite (Grey) had on a former occasion
stated that negotiations on the subject were then going on,
but he (Lord A.) had recently seen a statement from
which it appeared that :.11 negotiations were at an
end. Whatever might be his feelings—whatever might
be his opinion upon the eolaject, he wished the .Noble
Earl to understand that he dhi not in-Ortil to
make a notion—.he gave no notice of a motion—he did
not even ask a question upon the subject. The Noble
Earl had more than once stated his opinions, in which lie
(Lord A.) perfectly concurred, that this was a subject of
very great importance ; for although Marshal Clausel
.5) ight have ridden his bobby a little too high, when be
so tree] the colony of Algiers might he as prodttctive to
France as the East Indies had been to England, still
it could not he doubted that, in the hands
of any' European Power, it naught be of very
great importance, but more so in those of France, than (a'
any other power in Europe. He had formerly declared
his intention of giving all his humble aid to the
Government in settling this question, in which
not only the honour butt the interests of the tountry
were much concerned, That honour and those interests were
in the keeping of the Noble Earl, and he would to nclude
by expressing his hope, that the Noble Earl would
come forward and make full Communication to the
House, and prove that neither the interests nor the ho-
near of the country had suffered in his hands.
Earl GREY said, that as the Noble Earl had stated it
'not to be his intention to make any motion, or give any
notice of a motion, or ask any question, it might
probably be considered totally unnecessary on his
part to say any thing, but he took it for granted,
from what the Noble Earl had stated, that the cause of
the communication he had trade was from wLat hail
originally appeared in the Paris papers as the state-
ment of Marshal Clausel in the Chamber of Depu-
ties. He had certainly read what had passed, lout when
he stated, with that exception, he had not received any
communication from the legislature of Paris, he thought
their Lordships would feel that it Was not necessary
for him to enter into any discussion on the subject.
All he would say was, that in this, as well
as in all other transactions, his Majesty's Ministers
would endeavour, Cis far as they could, to act upon
views of good nuhey and government, and to support
as far as they could, the honour and interests of the
country. 'Whenever the time came that this matter
should be further discussed, he trusted his Majesty's Mi-
nisters would be able to show that they had not been
nteglectftul of their great and essential duties.—(Hear.)
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was not at all sur-
prised at this declaration of the Noble Earl, considering
how injudiciously the foreign policy of this country bail
been latterly managed. That Noble Earl had laid upon
the table the copy of a convention between France and
this country. He wished to know whether he intended to
originate any discussion with respect to that convention,
or whether he would name any day on which the
subject might be taken into consideration.—(Hear.)
The Noble Marquis complained that Great Britain had
not been properly represented at Constantinople. In
reference to the occupation by the French of Al.giers, he complained that the House had not been
informed why that place was to continue so occupied,
nor whether his Majesty's Government had taken any
steps in the matter. Indeed, the whole of the foreign po-
licy of this country had experienced a change, but parti-
cularly as regarded the treaties of Vienna and Paris.
Such a change had taken place, under the present Admi-
nistration, in our foreign affairs, that England was now
become the laughing-stock of the rest of the world.
The Earl of RIPON thought it would be only wasting
their Lordships' time, if he were to discuss all the topics
which had been touched upon by the Noble Lord._
(Hear, bear.) He would not now !rake any observations
ou the Noble Marquis's remarks on the affairs of Belgium,
or the affairs of the East, or of our domestic policy,
because there would be other and more fit opportunities
to discuss them. Ile must, however, observe on one or two
points : first, he did not conceive that it was incumbent
on the Government to ask the House to express any opi
nion on the Convention which was now laid on their
Lordships' table. Such a course, indeed, had never been
pursued ; but it was always competent for any-
Noble Lord, either in that or the other House
of Parliament, to ask for such an opinion.—
(Hear, hear.) It was also competent to any Noble Lord
to ask for the opinion of Government on a convention,
but the present was not such a case. The Noble Mar-
quis had made some remarks on time Amba;sador at Con-
stantinople, and also on the individual who preceded him,
and in so doing he stated that which he must either have
conceived In his own mind, or have read from newspapers,
or have been told by other persons as to what had contri-
buted to delay the arrival of Lord Ponsonby at oastan-
tinople, insinuating that he was delayed arriving at his
pint, hecause he nay looking out for the higher post
at St. Pe'ersburgh. Now, there was nut one word of
tt tith in that statement, which was, in fact, perfectly
gratuitous, and where the Noble Marquis picked it up he
(the Earl of Ripon) could not conceive. With respect to
the charge against Mr. Mandevide, the Charge d'Affaires,
whether anything had omitted to be done which ought to
have been done, or whether anything was done ineffi-
ciently, it certainly was not that gentleman's fault ; lie
submitted whether it was just or fair for the Noble Mar-
quis to make such observations against an individual
filling a most important and responsible situation, and who
was not in a condition to defend himself.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY had not presumed
to make charges against the individuals alluded to. He
had only given the general report and he was very glad to
have heard that report contradicted by the Noble Earl.
The Noble Earl had not, however, takee the spirit of his
observations, which was, that those subjects required the
deepest consideration of thelleutooand fromwhat occurred the
other evening, it was almost impossible for any individual to
luring for Ward a motion on our foreign policy. The extra-
ordinary missions of Lord Durham and Sir Stratford
Canning, and indeed all the affairs, not only in the East,
but at Madrid and all other parts, required the attention
of their LordshiPs; and surely, when they were drawing
towards the close of the session, some opportunity ought
to be afforded of discussing those subjects. It the Noble
Earl who had just sat down would assist trim—(A laugh)
—in bringing forward a motion on the subject of our
foreign policy, he would undertake to say that he would
demonstrate that his Majesty's Ministers had not only
failed, but hadodebased the high station on which the
country had rested.
The Earl of WICKLOW begged leave, before address-
ing himself to the subject of which he had given notice, to
move that the Clerk should read the resolution of the
House of Comm Ons as communicated to that House on the
18th of this month.
The CLERK was proceeding to read the resolution, but
Earl GREY objected to that unusual course of preceed-
ing. The resolution had not been formally communicated,
and he therefore objected to its being made the foundation
of the Noble Earl's observations. It was competent for
him, however, to presume that such a resolution had
passed the other House, and to make any remarks on it
he chime.

The Earl of WICKLOW merely intended to move the
reading of the resolution, in order to save their Lord 'flips'
time, and the necessity he should be under of explaining it
in a more circuitous manner. He knew it might be
said that he was bringing the matter forward prema-
tnrely, and that the subject should not be discussed,
until it had come regularly before the House, in the shape
either of resolutions or of a Bill. He was ready to admit
that that regulation on general principles was good, but nit
applicable universally. There were cases in which it vv.s not
only expedient but very desirable that their Lorehhips
should have an opportunity of discussing subjects which
were in progress through the other House, in the hope that
when the feelings of that House came to be kuown
through the ordinary channels of communication,
an opportunity might be given of so qualifying the mea-
sures to be sent up, that there might be a I otter
chance of meeting with a favourable reception in that
House. This was more especially applicable to money bills,
Which, from the different forms and customs of the two
Mouses, their Lordellips, if they objected to their prim•ipies

„asks.,
and enactments, must at once reje, t, it being il:apotO
sible for ,them to amend. In order to place this
saihject”. regularly before them, be heeged leave to call
tootle recollection of d-et' Lordships that at the corn-
Mencement of Ist 'Session, this subject was considered by
iGover:nreent of so much importance, that it was men-
sterd in the speech by his Majesty from the thi-orUi.
Irlias proposed in both Houses of Parliatiint that Com-
eanointedttees should be immediateiy anointed to enter upon this
important attlaiert 7rivesligate it, examine witnesses, and
' make tbsr'ir sport. The Committees immediately assembled,
tohalirienced their operations, and made reports to their ios-
apective Houses. With respect to the liala or %liege 'rri'n'stl*,e,
presented in February, he timold say nothing, as he 'bed an
opportunity of adVerting upon it at the time it was pre-
sented) on account of -a
Phrase, which had since been
productive 'of terSie'a bloodshed. With 'regard to the
second report presented to Parliament, ha raUst speak in
terms of the highest comosent%tion. Those reports
were determined ~:,tl, after due deliberation upon
all their rietaila. He would take the ?;pert' q
reading one short extract, the only one tisith which
t.:* should trouble the tion-e. It was from
the report made to .tne House of Commons. The
Noble Earl read the attract, which recommended a Bill
to be beought in For the commutation of tithes. At the
'period this recommendation was given he asked Mitiste'ea
if it was their intention to introduce those Bills during
that session, and he was answered both by the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord Grey) and the Noble President of the
Council (Lord Lansdowne) that it was. He was, he must
confess) surprised at this answer; but confiding, as he at
the time did, in the honour of his Majesty's GovertsrMsn't,
he had no idea until the session was at an end that an in-
tention so expressed would not haVe been 'Carried iato effect.
When the first Pill Was ;ntrbduced he concluded that the
object of the tioVernmetat was to facilitate the progress of
the two other ineasUrf.s; but up to that moment neither
nit them hat; been brought forward, and only one of the
then Bills recommended by the Committee had passed
through the Houses of Parliament.----(Hear.) He knew
he should be told by tome member of the Government that
they had a multittoie of other and more weighty business
to attend to, for he did recollect the Noble and Learned
Lord on the Woolsack rising on a former occasion and
with great self complacency enumerating the vast number
of measures which the Government had under considera-
tion, and saying that any one of those questions was greater
than any former Government would have been able to
grapple with, though the Government with which he
was connected would not shrink limn the mighty task,
but would perform all this herculean work, and bear
this world of labour alone and unsustained upon their own
shoulders. It was, however, strange that, although the
Government could not find time to bring forward either of
the Bills to which he had alluded, they had given them-
selves leisure to concoct another project embracing every
measure except those great and important ones to the in-
troduction of which they pledged themselves in the last
session.—(Hear, bear.) He had now stated the position
.in which the matter stood up to the present time, bur,
' without reading the resolutions which had been commu-
nicated to their Lordships, and to which he referred,
would as brie-fly as possible explain their purport. They
proposed that the Houses of Parliament should justify the
Government in ceasing to enforce the payment of tithes,
and concur in advancing a sum of money equal in amount
to the property of the clergy for three years, namely, for
two years' arrears of tithes, and the tithes which would
accrue during the present year. This advance it was fur-
ther proposed should be repaid by the imposition of a land
tax ; hut it was not a little remarkable that in no part of
these resolutions was it stated how or from whom the tax
was to be levied ; whethr r from the defaulters or plun-
derers, who had by violence exempted themselves from
payment to the clergy of their just dues or debts, or from
the proprietors of the soil, who had always supported the
rights of the church, and done their duty to their coun-
try.—(Hear, hear.) It was, however, obvious that the
tax was not to be raised from the occupier or defaulter,
and that the debts due to the Crown were still to be en-
forced, but under another name, and that, too, for no
better reason than a desire on the part of the Govern-
ment to conciliate certain p trties to whom they had long
been crouching, and for whose approbation they might in
vain seek. But surely it ought to have been set forth in
the proposition by whom the tax was to he paid, whether
by the lord of the soil, the into landlord, or the
occupying tenant. But the measure had been introduced
in a crude, undigested, unformed shape, like every other
proposition brought forward by the Government. He
would take the case of individual landlords who had
acted under the provisions af the Bill of the last Ses-
sion. By that Bill every landlord who took the burden
of paying the tithes upon his own shouldera was entitled
to 15 per cent, for the risk he would incur in collecting
the arrears due by his tenants; but before he had an Op-
portunity of enforcing his claims these resolutions were
adopted, and orders sent over to Ireland by the Govern-
ment, directing all proceedings under that Act to cease.
This was nothing more nor less than a declaration that
tithes were a nuisance. But what provision was made
for the protection of lay impropriators, now that tithes
were to he regarded as a nuisance that should no longer
exist ? This was a point on which a Noble Marquis now
sitting on one of the cross benches was interested, and
which might induce him to vote with those who opposed
the measure, for the Noble Marquis would not, he
thought, fail to recollect that this was not the case of
Don Pedro against Don Miguel, hut of property against
spoliation. But, passing over the situation in which
the landlord and the lay impropriator were to be
placed, he would ask what the position was in which
the clergy themselves would stand if the proposition
of the Government were acted upon ? He would defy
any man who reflected for a moment on the provisions of
the measure to deny that its operation would be most in-
sidious as regarded the Church Establishment, or that its
object was, by offering a tempting bribe, to induce the
clergy to surrender up their vested right to titles, which
were as stable as the soil out of which they arose, and
[ouch more ancient than the titles by which their Lord-
ships enjoyed their respective estates. But he begged it
might be understood that he did not attribute the attack
which ti.e Government had made on the Established
Church to malevolence, or that his Majesty's Ministers
we•e not desirous of maintaining the Protestant ascen-
dancy ; but what he intended to say was, that if, when as-
suming the reins of power, the Members of the Govern-
ment had conspired to overthrow the Protestant religion
in Ireland, they could not have taken more effectual
measures for that purpose.—(Hear.) From the moment
they entered office the system of attack which had b.,en
made upon the Church had gained rapid ground; and
now that the clergy were deprived of their property, and
had been reduced to the last extremity of conceivable dis-
tress, was the moment chosen for making them an offer
of three years' income, in order that they might be induced
to sacrifice their right to tithes, and become mere eccle-
siastical pensioners of the State. At the period the pre-
sent Administration came into office the resistance given
to the payment of tithes was hardly perceptible. He
(Lord Wicklow) was prepared for the taunts which
his observations might draw forth from Noble Lords
on the Opposition benches ; but, even if he were to stand
alone in the endeavour, he should, whenever the necessity
occurred, boldly and fearlessly rise in his place in that
House, or elsewhere, to vindicate and uphold the rights of
all chassis of his fellow-countrymen.—(Hear, hear.) If
the proposed measure were to benefit the clergy, he for one
would not sanction it, because he thought it would be un-
just; but when he knew its ohject was to delude them
out of their rights by means of a bribe, anti to violate the
laws of property, he should feel it a duty of conscience to
give it every resistance in his power.—( Hear, hear.) He
might almost say that as yet he was the only person
who had raised his voice against the proposition of Mi-
nisters, for had not these resolutions been carried in the
other House of Parliament by a large majority ? Now he
wished to profess all due respect for the wisdom of the
House of Commons. When they decided upon the atm.

lition of the malt tax he respected their vote ; and be
equally respected their vote when, in a night or two after,
they declared that the malt tax should continue.—(Hear,
hear.) In short he respected alike all their votes. But
he must confess he was surprised that no person possessing
property, and notwithstanding the Reform Act there were
still in the House of Commons persons of property, had
risen to protest against this Bill. The Noble Earl concluded
by moving for a return of all sums of money collected
under the provisions of the Act of the last session passed
for the purpose of facilitating the recovery of tithes in cer-
tain cases, and fur the relief of the clergy.
The question having been put,
Viscount MELBOURNE ruse, not to complain of the
Noble Earl's availing himself of that opportunity to state
his objections to the resolutions, but to deny that the
word "extinction" contained in the Report of the Com-
mittee on Tithes had produced either evils or bloodshed.
That word merely rebrred to measures on the subject
that %sere in prospective. It was undoubtedly true that
only one of the three Bills recommended by the Commit-
tee bad been passed; but was there not a very ample ex•
cuse for the delay that bath taken place when they con-
: ti
teer eodf Ireland posture re
With
ipt hrleics.tpaeeff: itros
tihnecßoini
in efoc
rt i oe
snt
awb•
itshb
itn?:ge
ecclesiastical corporations, he begged to say that the Go-
vernment did not mean to persevere in that part of the
plan, because upon inquiry they had found that
the clergy
themselves were opposed to it. The Noble Earl had talked
of the complaisance of his (Lord AL's)Noble and Learned

Friend on the Wools,ck; but he (Lied Alelliourne) woAl
knot enter upon a warfare of sarcasm with the Noble VP,
although, talking of complaisance and self-eatisfacolon; the
Noble Earl seemed just es ratitt.:aed araul delighted with
the varied.powara 1:e had developed on that occasion as
Vat'Oisaos was when, on looking at the reflection of his
lace in the fountain, he found it more beautiful than he
imagined it to have been.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Bttt
be. ( Lord Melbourne) would poraue the conduct of a Certaiii
ancient, who, being abased by a talkative fellow, said,
J will not 'ente'r tilpo'n a conflict of words with yoU,
for the Contest Would lie unequal, as you Met:ely use to
other the langUage .that is used towards yourself."—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl had complained that the
Bill of last session took away from the clergy their rights ;
but that was not the case, for the remedies which the
common law furnished were still open to them. Under
the Act of the last session a sun of la,oool. was due
to the crown for arrears of tithes, but of this amount only
1.?„000t. hay been recovered, although the expenses in_
carred in levying even so much greatly exceeded the sum
received.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, taking this matter
into consideration, and that tenants at will, tenants front
year to year, and leaseholders under twenty one years,
would be relievell-
The Earl of WICKLOW—That was not so.
Viscount MELBOURNE—At all events a great part
of the occupying tenantry would be relieved from the
payment of tithes; lint whether the plan was wi,e or
prudent one thing was certain, and that
for
the
as,thatitiniet
hbal
met with almost universal approbation,
arrived when disputes respecting tithes must be pat an
end to altogether. The Noble Earl had asked what was
become of the landlords who had undertaken to pay the
tithes themselves ? Why, they would remain in the
situation they were in at present, and have their remedy
against their tenants as in all ordinary cases of contract.
He denied that the clergy would give up their rights, or
that the safety of the Protestant Church would be en-
dangered ; but lie at the same time could not think the
right to tithes as stable as the land itself with such facts as
he had before him. The time had arrived for putting a
stop, if possible, to the disorders existing in Ireland, and
bringing this question to a satisfactory adjustment; but,
though he wished to s-e all disabilities removed from
Roman Catholics, he was a sincere friend to the church,
and considered that Protestantism should he the esta-
blished religion in Ireland.—([fear, hear.) If the House
would only take into consideration the difficulties and
embarrassments against which the Government had to
contend, Noble Lords would be at once convinced that in
proposing and acting upon those resolutions the Govern-
ment had acted wisely, and deserved approbation instead
of censure.--(Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that the explana-
tion or speech of the Noble Lord who had just sat down
%seas perfectly unintelligible to hint, and, he believed, to
most of their Lordships. With respect to the arrears due
in 18:30, the Noble Lord was mistaken in supposing that
they could be recovered by the clergy. The fact was not
so, and unless the 'Act of the last session was repealed
those arrears might be considered as extinguished. He
complained that the Noble Lord had not stated whether
or not the Act of last session was to be repealed. That
was a point upsn which information was absolutely neces-
sary, and none whatever had been given. According to
the report which had been laid before the House`, the
tithes in Ireland for the most part did not exceed
Is. an acre, and in no case hardly went beyond 2a.
an acre. He was speaking of the effect practically. Now,
there were among the Noble Lords opposite some of the
largest landed proprietors in Ireland, and he should like
to know from them how they would like to be called
upon to pay, not Is. or 2s. an acre, but 6s. or 7s. an
acre, and that for the last three years?—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) Then, again, how were the landlords to col•
lect the tithes for which they were thus to be made to
pay in a land tax ? Were the tithes to be collected as
rent, or were the landlords to be invested with the legal
power which had heretofore belonged to the Clergy?
These were all important points, and they were all among
those matters upon which the Noble Secretary of State
had given no explanation. Then the Noble Secretary of
State had adverted to the difficulties with which the sub-
ject was beset. He admitted the exis'ence of these diffi-
culties, but he contended that they were mainly to be
attributed to the neglect of the Government during the
first year it was in office.—(Cheers.) At first the oppo-
sition to tithes was actually nothing, but it was allowed to
go on until it became serious; and that result was to be
attributed to the conduct of the Government. If the
Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, instead of pardoning the per.
sons first convicted of creating an unlawful resistance to
the collection of tithes, had suffered the law to take its
course—(Hear, hear)—and if the Government, instead
of promoting and encouraging the person who was
called the great Agitator of Ireland, had inflicted on
that person the punishment the law awarded to hint ;
and if the Government haul not pardoned those whose
avowed and notorious objects was to defeat, to obstruct,
and to subvert the law, then there would have been no
necessity for the hard measure the Government now
called upon the House to deal out to the Irish landlord.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) If their Lordships wished to learn
to whom the conspiracy against tithes was mainly to be
attributed, he referred them to the evidence of the Arch-
bishop of Dublin, anti he did so the more readily because
he believed that the Government placed much confidence
in the opinions of that Right Rev. Prelate; and he cer-
tainly ought to be considered as an authority. The Arch.
bishop of Dublin attributed the disturbances against tithes
mainly to the Roman Catholic clergy—(Hear, hear)—par-
ticularly to one of that body whose name was mentioned
by the Right Rev. Prelate.--(Hear, hear.) The same
authority also stated that the opposition to tithes did not
arise from distress among the people, but from the hatred
against tithes by the Roman Catholic clergy, tithes being
regarded as a !lure maintenance of the Protestant clergy.—
(Hear, hear.) The first tithe disturbance occurred in
November, 1830, and very soon after it was known, in
January, 1831, he reminded the Noble Earl (Grey) that
the Proclamation Act would expire at the close of the
then session. The Noble Earl said that that Act should
be renewed. It was not, however, renewed, for the Par-
liament was dissolved in April, without the Government
having taken any one step to renew it. The Parliament
was again assembled in June. Even at that parsed not a
word was said about there being any conspiracy against
the payment of tithes, although at the very time when his
Majesty's speech was delivered the affair of Capt. Graham
had occurred, and was known to the Government in this
country. Not a word, in fact, was said by the Govern-
ment upon the subject until December, 1831, when that
unfortunate paragraph was inserted in his Majesty's speech
which had called forth so much discussion and regret.
Now he asserted, and wou'd maintain, that if the Go-
vernment had set seriously and earnestly to work to put
an end to the conspiracy the moment it was discovered,
they must have succeeded, for a Government was always
strong against a conspiracy—(Hear)—the property would
have been safe, and the Legislature would not have been
reduced to the necessity of giving compensation to one
class of holders of property for property destroyed at the
expense of another class of holders of property.—(Hear.)
He entreated their Lordships to bear constantly in mind,
and to impress the fact upon all with whom they came in
communication, that if one man conspired to deprive an-
other of his property he must, if he succeeded, eventually
be despoiled of his own.—(Cheers.) He hoped to hear
from some Member of the Government an explanation, at
least more clear, if not more satisfactory, than that given
by the Noble Sec etary of Sate.

- Viscount MELBOURNE explained. He had ❑ever
charged the Protestant gentry as a body with having as-
sisted the conspiracy against tithes, but he had said, as
was the fact, that Protestant gentlemen bad presided at
anti-tithe meetings.

Earl GREY said that to the motion of the Noble Earl
he had no objection to offer; he could have none; but to
the speech of the Noble Earl he had every objection to
take. But the Noble Duke complained of the indistinct-
ness of the explanation of his Noble Friend (Viscount
Melbourne), but be must say that neither the speech of
the Noble Duke nor that of the Noble Earl was remark-
able for clearness and precision ; and that circumstance
is as the almost necessary consequence of the mode in
which the discussion was originated. If the Noble Duke
had awaited until the fair and proper time had arrived for
the discussion of the measure, there would have been no
ground for his complaint, or at least the censure of the
Noble Earl and of the Noble Duke, if it had been called
for, would have been justified.—(Hear.) Thus cir-
cumstanced, he could not at that moment pretend
to go fully into the measure ; to discuss its details
without the Bill before hint would be impracticable,
and therefore, like his Noble Friend, he might fall
.
under the censure of the Noble Duke. From the
recent'ul (late; that such
a thing had never been heard of until lately. The speeches their Lordships
had heard from the Noble
theEa oppositionrlaod th
to titheseNfble
Dukew,a: of it would be imagined that
con-
trary, however, was the case. There had long been a
set ions opposition to the collection of tithes in
Ireland, and he appealed to those who had resided longest
and were the hest acquainted with the condition of that
cottony, to confirm him in that stitement. The oppo-
sition to tithes there had not commenced during the
existence of the present Administration ; but it had gone
on for a long series of years accumulating, and it was the
lot of the present Government to have to deal with it.—
(Hear.) Nor was that the fact only with respect to

tithes. Of many other questions the same might he
said; end he Shooid have occasion to advert more fully to
the point, when the various matters came under considera-
tion. But with respect to tithes. When the Noble
Duke was in power an attempt was made, a Bill was
introduced, to set at rest the disputes abort tithes in Ire-
land, but the Governor~ tit ;;eased assistance; and the Bill
wag out. this oppo-sitinn.S---this Cohspiracy now
eXttting, began lOng before the Noble Duke left oflice
The Duke of WELLINGTON--No; it began in
November, 1830.
Rail GREY—In the beginning of November, 1830.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—,No; on the 28th of
November, 1830.
Earl GREY sail, that hotvever that might be, there
could he no doat that on various occasions opposition
had been given to the collection of tithes before the pre-
sent Government came into office. The fact was, that
Ireland was divided into two parties, and because the Go-
vernment, would not give the supremacy to either it was
opposed by both.—(Hear.) fie asserted that the Go-
vernment, in its attempts to maintain tranquillity and the
law, had not been more opposed by those the Noble Duke
called agit itors, than it had been by those who might have
been supposed to hive been interested in taking a very
different course. He had a right to make that complaint,
for a similar one had fallen front the Noble Doke when
he Was compelled to admit the good results lie had fondly
anticipated from the Roman Catholic Relief Bill had not
teen realized. He denied that any favour or encourage-
ment had been shown by Government to the individual
alluded to by the Noble Duke. That that individual pos-
sessed great influence it waa impossible to doubt, and he
again regretted that that influence and the eminent talents
with which he was gifted should not have been used to
promote the best interests of his country. The charge,
however, now urged by the Noble Duke, had often before
been stated and refuted. The fact was simply this—the
individual alluded to had not been punished because, in
the opinion of the law advisers of the Crown, there was
no law existing under which he could be punished. He
admitted that the Noble Duke had asked him, in 1831,
whether or not it was intended to renew the Proclamation
Act, and in reply lie had stated it was ; and such then was
his intention, but a prorogation was suddenly found
necessary, and the renewal did not take place. When the
Parliament aeain assembled, there were of er and highly
important matters pressing for consideration ; an i besides
he was ready to admit, that he ha-I hoped the state of Ire-
-1 tnd would not hove rendsied the re-enactment of the
dropped measure necessary. But unjust as that accusation
was, what was it to the accusation of the Noble Eail,
who asserted that every measure the Government bad
brought forward had for its object to conciliate the indi-
vidual referred to? Was the Coercion Act, as that mea-
sure was most improperly called, of that description ? Or
were any of the subsequent measures? If they were they
had produced a very contrary effect, for the only return
they had product d was that of this individual taking every
opportunity to designate the Government as a brutal,
bloody and corrupt Administration.—(Hear.) Now he
was prepared to encounter the enmity of that person, to-
gether with that of those who, though opposed entirely to
him in politics, appeared to agree in an attempt to over-
throw the Government, and in doing so to form a combi-
nation in a total disregard of all those principles which
they proposed to hold to he essential to the safety of the
State ; he was prepared to meet the combined enmity of
the two parties, and still to persevere in his efforts for the
public good. The Noble Earl had complained that the
recommendation of the Tithe Committee had not been en-
forced. One recommendation, that ofa fair and compulsory
composition of tido s, had been enacted; and it would be one
of the objects of this measure to extend to the end of the year
the option of the landlords to take upon themselves the
collection. The second reconunendation was given up, be-
cause on consideration it was found to be so objectionable
as to be worse than useless. The third recommendation
it was true was delayed, but no it convenience would arise
om the delay, and it would be persevered in. He then
came to the resolutions. The Noble Duke shortly de-
scribed it as extinguishing one class of property, and com-
pensating for the extinction by laying a tax upon another
class of property. In his view it was no such thing. And
in that description he found another proof of the propriety
with which the Noble Duke might have waited until the
measure was fairly introduced before he commenced his
attacks on it. What was the class of property to he abo-
lished ? Surely not tithes. There were three years of
tithes due, and the Bill proposed not to abolish tithes, no,
hut to insure the payment of what was due by another
mode of proceeding. His object was, not to deprive the
Church of any of its rights, but to secure those rights as
fairly as and in the best way possible. Well, the Church
had a clear indisputable title to the payment of tithes, and
it was to insure that payment the Bill was devised. Ile
confessed that it was au evil step from the ordinary course
of law for the security of any property, but under the cir-
cumstances he thought the deviation not only justifi able
but necessary. He had hoped that the measure of last
rear would have succeeded, but it had not ; for, as his
Noble Friend had stated, out of 104,0001. due for tithes
only 12,0001. had been collected under the Bill, and that
at an expense exceeding the amount received. He had
said the Bill of last session had failed ; in proof of that he
would refer to an abstract lie had in his pocket, and it
would clearly show the correctness of his position. That
abstract was drawn from Returns laid before the other
House of Parliament. It gave a summary of the law pro-
ceedings under the Bill of last Session, and when the result
was heard, and it was also known that at. the present
moment a process could not he served, a notice issued, or
a summons delivered without the attendance of a body of
police or of troops, he thought it would be admitted that
the Government had taken the only course properly open
to them. He would ask the Noble Duke—(Here the
Noble Earl highly eulogised the Duke of Wellington)—as
a friend of the army, whether it was desirable it
should be employed in enforcing the payment of
tithes ? But to the abstract he had mentioned. The
Returns were up to February, 1833, and it appeared
that up to that time there had been 30,000
decrees, 1,258 attachments, 236 proclamations, and
52,826 summonses. He was not one of those who
wished to disparage the powers of the law, and under any
circumstances to admit that it was incompetent to effect
its purpose, but in this matter there was much to prevent
perseverance. The cases in which the amount claimed
was not more than Is. were no less than 4,684, and the
aggregate of the money claimed in those cases was
1151. 16s. 7d. Then he asked whether it was advisable
to continue such a state of things, or at once to seek to
substitute a better ? Under these circumstances the Go-
vernment thought it right to stop proceedings ; but it
could not do without seeing how the debt should be paid.
The measnre was not one of choice, and if any Noble Lord
would propose a better he should be ready to adopt it.
There was no property extinguished; but there being this
debt, on whom ought it to fall ? Could it fall upon any one
with so much propriety as upon the landowner ? And he
staked the Noble Earl, who professed to regard the main-
tenance of the church as a sacred duty, whether he would
begrudge the trifling charge which this measure would
throw upon him in order to support that Church ? He
proposed that the Government should pay the money due
to the clergy, and that the Government should be repaid
by a land tax. Of course various provisions would be
necessary to carry that into effect, which he should be pre-
pared to go into when the Bill was before their Lordships.
The land tax for this purpose was to he paid in such a
way as to give to the landowners five years to repay the
amount now due to the clergy on account of tithes. It
might be said, if the clergy could not get the tithes
how was the landlord ? But Le thought that a land-
lord had much more likelihood of being success ul
than the clergyman. It might certainly happen in some
few cases that the party who ought to pay the tithe was
gone, but that would be the case equally with the clergy-
man, and he thought a per centage ought to be allowed
by the clergy to the landowner on account of irrecover-
able debts. These were the outlines of the measure, and
although he was not one of those who presumed to con•
elude that his own forethought was faultless, still he
trusted it would be found not to be so imperfect or so ob-
jectionable as to require the Legislature to reject it.
When referring to the abstract he should have stated that
the total number of proceedings which had been taken
was 83,364 ; that there were 20,931 respecting which no
proceedings whatever had been taken, and that the charge
for proclamations alone was 7,367/. 14s. He hoped that
no party or personal consideration would weigh with their
Lordships in the discussion of this measure, or prevent
them from giving it that favourable consideration to which
he thought it was entitled.
Time Earl of RODEN could not acquit his Majesty's
Ministers of being, in a great degree, the cause of the
resistance of the payment of tithes in Ireland. They
were greatly to blame for many of the measures which
created disturbance in that country. Had they not al-
lowed to continue in the commission of the peace those
who had presided at anti-tithe meetings, and had they
not by such conduct encouraged such meetings ? The
Noble Viscount said that the Protestants of Ireland had
not at their meetings said anything about tithes, and it
had been inferred front that circumstance that the Pro-
testants of Ireland were opposed to them. This was
not the cave; and so tar from its being the case,
there were no persons who would go further in support of
the clergy, and in maintaining the !awe, than that very
body to which the Noble Viscount had alluded.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH thought it was a

mistake not to have given the Tithe Composition Act a
general and permanent operation. It was a mistake to
suppose that the amount of tithes in Ireland was the cane
of hostility to them. The amount was not so touch felt
as the appropriticn of them waa obnoxious to the Ca-
,who entertained an inveterate hostility to titlys.
The LORD CTIANCELLOR should not have risen
if it were not for an ,alluaion which had been made
M his Noble Friend (the Lord Chancellor of Ireland), who
had been accused of having given promotion to a certain
proaeinent member of the Itisli bar. So far was he
from shrinking from the ,defence his ,Noble and
Learned Friend that he challenged iriniry, and claimed
hia share of the responsibility of having ccnferred such
promotion. It was not an act of Government favoir,
but an act of justice, or, he would rather say, a matter of
right. Any member of the legal profession who was this
tinguished by his talents and the extent of his knowledge
had a right to precedence, and withholding such promo-
tion from such a person would not only be an act of in-
justice to the individual but to the profession at large; and
to the clients attending the Courts.
The Duke of WELLINGTON had always understood
that professional prometioh or adVancement *as the gift
of the Cia and Was a matter of grace and favour. In
this opinion, it would appear, front the statement of the
Noble and Learned Lord, he was mistaken, and that the
advancement was a mere matter of course and a right.
Their Lordships now had the statement from a person
more capable of judeing than he was, and he presumed
it must be taken as an authority.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the Noble Duke
was tight in thinking that the professional advancement
was partly a matter of fivour. But in such a case as the
one referred to, when a man stood at the head of his
profession, it was so much a matter of course that the
withholding it would be an act of gross injustice, not
only, as he had said before, to the individual himself, but
to the profession, and to the public, who, as &kilts, had
a right to the services of their advocate, and that that ad-
vocate should be placed in such a position as his talents
and practice entitled him to.
Lord WYNFORD, who was almost inaudible, was
uuderstoo I to say, that 170 professional merit would en-
title an objectionable person to promotion at the Bar.
The Earl of WICKLOW replied, after which the mo-
tion was &A re, d to.
LOCAL JURISDICTION BILL.
The order of the day for going into Committee having
been moved,
Lord LYNDHURST thought it necessary to have the
whole of the Bill printed and in possession of their Lind-
ships before they proceeded to any farther discussion of its
details. This Bill was recommended to their Lordships
for its simplicity, but they had no means of judging of its
merits unless they had the whole Bill before them. He
should have no objection to a recommitment of the Bill
pro forma, by which course the schedules might be re-
duced and printed for their Lordships' use.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it a most in-
convenient and irregular course to postpone the discussion
of the B II merely for the purpose of printing the schedules
which formed no essential part of the Bill, and which did
not in the most remote degree affect its principle. There
was no principle whatsoever involved in these schedules,
and he had some doubts in his own mind as to the neces-
sity of including them at all in the Bill. One of them
merely suggested a form of judgment, another prescrit,ed
formula of pleading ; in fact they were all rather of a
directory than a compulsory character. The particulars
cf these schedules would be explained in Committee, and
would come in, as all schedules did, at the end of the Bill.
Satisfied as he was that they did not involve any principle
of the Bill, and that they might be left without impairing
its efficiency, he hoped their Lordships would proceed to
the discussion of the Bill.
Lord WYNFORD hoped his Noble and Learned Friend
on the Woolsack would consent to the postponement of
this Bill until the schedules were printed.
Lord LYNDHURST said they were about to discuss
the details of this Bill without having these details printed,
or even known to their Lordships ; and he appealed to the
experience of their Lordships whether such a course had
ever been adopted in that House

Earl GREY thought that if the schedules were deemed
necessary to the Bill, it was only in Committee that they
could he propcseil.
_ .

Lord ELLENBOROUGH sail the Nob!e Earl seemed
to forget that they had already been in Committee on this
Bill. His Noble and Learned Friend had no objection to
go into Committee pro
.forma, with the vies' to having
the schedules printed; and surely it would riot beton much
for their Lordships to expect that they should be printed
before they were to be discussed.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Noble Baron was
qui•e right in saying that they had been already in Com-
mittee, and that was a reason why they should go into it
again. It would be a matter for his (the Lord Chancel-
lor's) consideration, whether he should not so frame the
Bill as to render the schedules unnecessary. In the mean-
time, they might go on with the discussion of the other
clauses, and he should put his Noble and Learned Friend in
possession of the schedules, which would enable him to pre-
pare himself for their discussion. He hoped his Noble and
Learned Friend evou!d not oppo.e the going into Committee.
Lord LYNDHURST said his first proposition was to go
into Committe, pro forma, with the view of getting the
schedules printed.

Earl GREY—Then why not go on with the other clauses?
Lord LYNDHURST—Because I, for one, am unable
to discuss those clauses without knowing the effect of the
schedules. Others may be en %bled to go on to their own
satisfaction with the discussion of the clauses without the
schedules ; I confess I cannot.

Their Lordships then resolved into Committee.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that if he then
consented to a postponement of the clauses it would be
with a distinct understanding that no further postpone-
ments should take place. He would not propose that the
schedule of fees should he insisted on.

Lord LYNDHURST said that his Noble and Learned
Friend could not make the alteration now, because the
schedule formed part of the Bill, which was not yet
printed.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that this was the
very stage in which any alteration might be made.
After a few words from Lord Lyndhurst the Bill was
committed pro forma, and ordered to be further con-
sidered on Monday next.

'flir House then adjourned at a quarter past nine t
Monday next.

HO USE OF COMM ONS, JUNE 19.
The SPEAKER resumed the chair this evening shortly
after five o'clock.

A message from the Lords brought a request that the
Hon. House of Commons worth' communicate to their
Lordships the reports of the Special Committees which bat
in It;31 and 1832 on the Elk India affairs.

The Marquis of CHANDOS brought up the report of
the Sale of Beer Committee. In laying it upon the table,
he slid he would accompany it with an earnest recommen-
dation to the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Under Secretary
of State, to take the report of the Committee into his
earliest consideration.

Mr. G. LAMB said it was already late in the session,
and he could not pledge himself to any immediate mea-
sures. He was assured that the Committee had paid
every attention to the subject, and from what he had been
informed, believed their report would exhibit evidence that
would more strongly call upon the Government to in ike
some amendment in the law. The subject would he re-
verted to as soon as possible by his Majesty's Government.
Mr. SLANEY could say, as a member of the Com-
mittee, that the evidence would be found fully sufficient
to call for a very early alteration in the exist-
ing law.—(Herr, hear.) He would add his strenuous
recommendation to that of the Noble Marquis, that his
Majesty's Government would take up the matter without
delay.

The nirquis of CHANDOS then presented petitions
against the Irish Church Reform Bill, from the Archdea•
cowry of Buckingham, and the clergy of Cork.
CHAPEL REPAIRS.
Mr. HUME presented a Bill to amend the law re•
lating to the repairs of chapels. Read a first time, and
to be read a second time on Wednesday next.
CHURCH TEMPORALITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. Secretary STANLEY moved the order of the day
for the House going into Committee on the above Bill.
Mr. FINN wished to ask whether there was any truth
in a rumour that had got abroad, that the Government
had entered into a compromise with the Tory opposition
upon the subject of this Bill, by agreeing that all the pro-
perty should be appropriated exclusively to ecclesiastical
purposes ?

- Mr. LITTLE FON said that as they would soon have
the clause of the Bill relating to that point before them,
the Hon. Member would perhaps wait till he came to it
for the gratification of his curiosity.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the

Mr. BERNAL put the 119th clause with the follow-
ing amendment, that after the words " Archbishop or
Bishops," the words, " and other Ecclesiastical Corp°.
ration's," should he inserted.

Mr. G. EVANS ItA.l given notice, that after the %lords
" Archbishops or Bishops," the words, " and Dean and
Chapter of Christchurch," should he insert, d !htougio ut.
Mr. STANLEY thought the Hon. Gentleman's in.
tention was better fulfilled by the words of the original

I e°
amendment, because, as they included al-
Corporltions, they would of necessAy
11, amns and
The clause, ail Originally tiniended, was them tai
Clauses 120, 121, 322, and 123, were 4
amended verbally, without any discussion. ii,ol
The 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129,134
clauses were ;h, n agreed. to, Ofot
On the 152 d cimise king moved, which le ip
mode of valuing the land under Bishops' les'o
to sell it, and which prequibes. that improve
on-the land shall,:he taken into considerationfr,,
Lord OXMANTOWN moved an ainen4o24
ing that the valuation should be made accomot
custom of the diocese—the object of which 'cv
vent improvements made on the land—such
planting, being included in the valuatioa•
On this amendment, a long and desultory
took place. Almost all the Members for Irela°
ing bo'h Mr. Shaw and Mr. O'Connell, s"Pr,
amendment. Mr, Stanley, the Solicitor G'
Dr. Lushington opposed it.
The Committee divided_
Ayes .
Noes

4a

that ly
Lni,ri
1":11 th
thew
theme
the Hi

Majority
The amendment was, we beli?ve, carried. 0
The clauses Of the Bill from 133 to 117 'Cee'
after some verbal amendments, agreed to, with ti:
1,
lion of clauses 136 and 138, which were strucli°oi
Mr. STANLEY said the I,Oth clause was ellt
objected to on the core of principle. When °t.
to the 110 h clause (a post !toned one), he 011...0
that the effect of it Would be bere'elleiel to
Ireland and to the support of the Protestant religi o
knew that with respect ti, the 147th clause, in ;Id
disposal of a sum of money was c incerned, the" iii
a great difference of opinion on both sides of tbe,„..p
and there were some of his own frietids who ell.)
it, as they considered it involved an alienation vtuti
proFerty,—.. Hear, hear.) The construction be P
the tendency of the clause was very different, f°r.ly
,(
Hot see that it involved in any way the alienatic°
property. What was bona fide the property It
chi c:i was n:.t at all touched. T• eie was, beJ
both in that House and out of it, a se ong feeling: i
sect to the alienation of church property.—(lllro
aed No, no.) They would have to consider tchto
be the purchase money arising out of the sales ° et
tuitits—whether the surplus would amount to Olel
ex ens, and to see 1101 V it could be applied. With rltoi
tb., disposal of money, he could not help inentionial
prise that a cl arse, involving stuns to the arnotint
or four hundred thousand pounds, should be PI
east ly the other night. The clause relieved the
Ireland of a debt to that amount. It was the first
on the purchase money of perpetuities. If the
lessees did not avail themselves of the offer hely
th •rn, things would remain as they were. Butei,
plus money alluded to in this clause would be alWildd
c..trtein Parliamentary purposes ; but no one cool
that it would be Applicable to the army or navy 's'
or the general expenditure of the country. Not ';,11
as possible it would be applied to the purposes of
testant Church—at least to purposes incidental,
Church—to the promotion of the established religld),
of education in Ireland. However, it might 1'e,.00.1!
whether any large sum would be realized ; and j'ijd
interference of Parliament with respect to it tv°Ddeji
matter of no very great importance. He knew' 'opt
portance of the less of such a question as the Pre Wi
this particular time—that loss would involve theod
other measures, and would involve consequences
he would not specifically allude, but which evert
of that House was afraid of.—(Cries of " No, Iw:d
,iet!'
" Nu" came from the Hun. Mettther for Oldfr'
he was glad Cu see that the Hon. Member
it
only exception in that House.—(Cries of "Ite
Mr. O'Connell, and from other Opposition Ales'
and " There are twenty of us.") He much fof
that there should be so many as twenty Membelleell
Howe who did not regard what would be the del
the loss of the present meastire.--(Hear.) At al
they were determined to make no sacrifice of Pridtg
they would give up nothing that they were bo°,°lo
principle, however Hon. Gentlemen opposite tors,
t.nd that they were making a sacrifice of principle
words he intended to substitute for the words at f
of clause 147, would not interfere with the right:,
Lament to the surplus money, if any there shoulo,o
(Laughter and Oh !) He hoped that the good feels'
the House would sanction a declaration that was ;0,0,
to Ltd to practical results. The 54th clause tOf
bo ish vestry cess, and the produce of the. sale
pet uities was intended to extinguish future mstal.tlo;
vestry cess, and to pay off the debts already' i
i unTlirte,creefize.,,,wtliirt itTiesturl
words
have the
such
hp rpoupropsoesetso;bert
ment, &e.," to the end of the clause, be struck ctili
the words " vestry eels" added. When that ryas.exactly'he contended that the surplus fund was left ex,'
same state in which it was originally.—(Laughtere:i
and cries of " No, no.") 13y the present pror,s,
plication of the fund, a great relief would be graW
the Irish people; they would be relieved frotn the cji
vestry cess, and from the instalments already dat',el
object was to make a sacrifice of principle; and bbl
fore, in the spirit of conciliation, entreated Hon. vl
t
men not to be led astray, and not to contribute CO
of the present measure, which involved so maul
ful
consequences. His object was to incorporate tblc6iel
anti, in the first instance, to make it applicable 10
purposes in preference to any other. cerr
Ali.. O'CONNELL said that the Right IDg...ich"
tary's amendment did not at all surprise or diaaOn fro
since he knew vetseven what was to be expecti,e,
one who put himself so forward in passing t "00
Coercion Bill. Ministers were going, for the first
their lives, to concede the principle of affording fe 0"'
Ireland, and the Irish people. They were aboOleit,
cede such a principle, when they were leaving ecci, ft
cal property to the disposal of Parliament.—(glee't
hear.) He called upon that Parliament to ree°,: It
promises of relief held out by Ministers, when
th
wantel to carry their coercive measure—Le be
to recollect their boast, that they would stand
both measures in their integrity.—(Hear,
then talked of courage, and seemed not at
shrink, or give up a principle. When they
the Coercive Bill, that side of the House
taunted him with his vexatious opposition.
said, " We are not going to injure your count'
to prepare it, in order that we may be able
practice the beneficent principles on which
is fur the future to be governed." Toey said
to establish a great principle with respect to
perty in Ireland—that no part of the people
taxed to pay a church from which they recei%
gtous benefit—and that the anomaly of a chuff
a people should be (lone away with. Well,
side the House said, for the concession of au,
ciple, "Let us support the Government coereivi
But now that the promised principle was violate
ask the gentlemen who voted then, on the fail
rinse, whether they would now support the
Secretary?—(Crest of " No, no;" and cheers.
an act of treachery as Ministers had been guilty
him God, lie had never heard of.—(Cheere.)
had given up the only good principle in the nit
had given it up through fear of corning into col
a party that they vaunted they hid nut dread.
there had been a loud talk of a contest—it was
by the most valiant soldier tr.- the age--ao
Gentlemen opposite repeated, that they did not riV;f 4,4 the
contest. But they (lid and do dread it—the 'at
.t° had be
the principle of the present Bill was a proof t;hb:r, bitlikeythin
were completely shrinking from the contest.---(11 ofti) 'seam
cheers.) If it were written on the wall in lettet:vet:e tiitbettech,
it would elldnot be more legible.—(Hthem stick ear, and tdies 446e1y
, let them keep their places—let
eattsio 1% , r,HUB
as long as they were worth keeping, but let t4outtlfe \II more f
Look to what will be thought of them by tbel,C libe Gavel.
when it will lie seen that to keep their places t leao, \ct; cover
sacrificed their principles, and violated their ,fir \ttar, he;
Could the high-minded gentlemen of England, vid
4'tl,,,teeurit'
ported them on a former occasion on account It),'"ent me
promises, continue to support them when those ,Ppriagjd t,,o4light
were broken, and when they abandoned the 01'1,,,e, that
plo of the present Bill? He appealed to that 13°,-10 j 7 Lit
asked if there was any other great principle in dory tight
except that which was now about to be a" oc r:°,o 14t
At 'At E
There was something, to be sure, in the arrange°).o- lit Was n 4
rive to vestry cess, but that was not sufficient ti.el
the people of Ireland. What was it to hint to l`lo L
Government were knocking off ten BishoOse--, ? .C.+N uver n
were playing at nine pins with the Irish 13'sbirel. ,'04)04% slat,
cared nothing about that, it would do no good t 0 Oe :•-wee,
and he should be quite content to see 26 ed. 03 b
Ireland, to see the same number there as in .E0g1,4 0:
was no enemy to the Protestant Church ; what -netry'P'iJo °old.
was that !chief should be granted to his 0° tber 10 re
but
Ministers by this plan upset ten Bishops, erre) Lt,)411.4 Cht
not take one shrilling off the burdens of the Iris" Ptbe b34netio
they did not the shgliteet thing to dinlinisbi. be ;0 'h44ght
of tittles under which Ireland groatied.--(1170;e elro tri"eip
They sin{ something last year ; they Ina" Bi
promises about tithes ; but what had they clone'
eir p of Nuti I
were the promises fulfilled? He begged there
.tbef
oi, yes, they had advanced 60,000/. to the c' 14,1 end
arrears of tithes. But how much of the arlr,sool., as
r'''p4, Sri et
collected ? By their own showing only yv Yof t

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