The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-12 00:00:00

TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

Sin,—Having seen in The Sun newspaper of Saturday last
a statement relative to the expense incurred in offi,eri,g the
Apollo troop-ship has induced me to trouble you with the
following scale of her present establishment, and one which
might be adopted for all troop and store ships of the Apollo's
size and class, showing a saving of 4991. Bs. 9d. a year, and at
the same time would be quite as efficient. I would, how-
ever, give the command of all store-ships and troop-ships, of
the Apollo's size (and larger ships that are and might be
commissioned for that particular service) to an experienced
commander, or to a master who has been master of a ship of
the line, or in the command of a smaller store or troop ship,
with the rank of a commander during the time he held such
command, or as Master of the Fleet—of course the appoint-
ments to rest entirely with the Lords of the Admiralty.
All store and troop ships of the size similar to the Tyne
should be commanded by experienced lieutenants or masters,
as at present, taking care to have all efficiently manned, with
reduced masts and yards, to give an enemy a good thrashing,
if necessary ; and I would strongly recommend all to have
marines on board to guard the stores, &c. The Second in
command to have the store allowance —I am, Sir, &c.,
March 11, 1851. AN OLD OFFICER.

TROOP-Sill

P APOLLO.

PRESENT ESTABLISHMENT.

PROPOSID ISTIBLISHMENT.

£ s. d.

1 Commander 301 2 6
1 Lieutenant 2OO 15 0
1 Lieutenant lB2 10 0
1 Master ...... 182 10 0
1 Surgeon
1 Paymaster and
Purser
2 Assistant-Sur-

d.
11 Commander 301 2 6
11 Master lB2 10 0
1 Assistant-Sur-
geon
L Assistant-Sur-
geon
Second-Master 73 0 0
2 Second-Masters 133 16 8
1 Clerk in Charge 66 18 4
3 Masters' - As

91 5 01

geons
2 Second Masters 133 16 8
2 Midshipmen 63 16 0,
2 Masters' - As-
sistants
1 Clerk

sistants ...... 141 8 9
1 Clerk Assistant 24 6 8

94 5 10
54 18 0,

X 1,235 8 9

Difference
25 16 10
rencesaved..!

.E 499 Bs. Id.,

THE LATE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF IN INDIA.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE &UN.
SlR,—May I request your aid to give publicity to a
fact, most honourable for Sir Charles Napier, which the
Indian newspapers have carefully suppressed?
When at Kurrachee, on his way to Bombay, the great
Belooch Sirdars of Scinde—the men who fought at
Meeanee and Hyderabal—waited on him to present a
sword, valued at 300 guineas.
Was this a testimony of their fear, or their admiration
of a conqueror? No, Sir. It was presented to him as a
mark of " their gratitude to him for saving them, after
the battles, from the miseries of a conquered people—
for restoring to them their rights and their ppssessions,"
—in fine, for the blessings of good government. And
this by Eastern men, nearly four years after he had
ceased to govern, and when he was retiring from power,
and from their country for evar!—l am, Sir, &c.,
March 11. W. NAPIER, Major-General.

THE DREAMER AND THE WORKER, BY R.
Hon ms, Esq., Author of " Orion," &c., in two vols., is pub-
lished this day by Mr. Colburn, and may be had at all the
libraries. Also now ready-2. Madam Dorrington of the
Dene ; the Story of a Life. By William Howitt.-3. Time
the Avenger. By the Author of " Emilia Wyndham."-4.
The Daughter of Night; a Story of the Rich and the Poor.
By S. W. Fullom, Esq.-5. Merkland ; a Story of Scottish
Life. By the Author of ,4 Margaret Maitland." Also just
ready-1. Tales and Traditions of Hungary. By Francis and
Theresa Pulszky-2. Second Love; or, Beauty and Intellect.
By Mrs. Trollope.
THE CONDEMNED CRIMINALS AT CHELMSFORD:
The hope which bore up Drory:through the trial, for till the_
delivery of the verdict he seems to have been confident of
escape, forsook him on reaching the gaol after his condemna-
tion. He was so exhausted that he was obligedir be
as-
sisted to his cell by two of the officials, and on reachingyit he
flung himself upon his bed and lay sobbing
nearly an hour. Mrs. Cheshani, on the contrar I exhibits
no difference in her behaviour, but goes through the usual
routine which the discipline of the gaoli p es on her with
perfect callousness, and appears altogethermdeovsoidof remorse.
The judge's warrants have been received at the gaol, and
the execution of both criminals is fixed for the
Essex Herald.
THE FUNERAL OF THE LATE EARL OF HARRlNG-
TON.—Yesterdayt the interment of the mortal remains of the
late Earl of Harrington took place in the family vault of the
parish church of Elvaston, Derbyshire, four miles from El-
vaston Castle. The body was removed from the late Earl
of Harrington's town residence by special train yesterday
morning. An immense number of persons :assembled, and
the utmost decorum was displayed during the whole of the
impressive ceremony. A very considerable number of tenant-
farmers joined the procession. The nobility and
gentry of
the neighbourhood had sent communications to the family,
requesting permission to pay a last mark of respect to the
Noble Earl's memory; but the applications were most re-
spectfully declined. The Countess of Harrington arrived
the follywing evening. The funeral service was read in a
most impressive manner by the late Earl's chaplain, after
which the body of the deceased Earl was then deposited in
his final resting-place. The inhabitants closed their shops
out of respect to the Noble Earl.

REPRESENTATION OF TAUNTON.—We understand
it is
.intended by a strong body of the elec'ors to send a
requisition to Mr. B. Escott, in the event f a dissolutpn of
Parliament, to become a candidate for tte representation of
this borough. We have little doubt that that Hon. Gentle-
man would accede to such a request,—indeed we are c
nfi-
dent that he would and we are equally satisfied that he is,
in every respect, a "fit and proper person " fer that impor-
tant post of honour.—Somerset County Gazette'

UNIVERSITY irELLIGEI\
erkmBRIDGE,
J s COLLEGE.
It is ordered by the Master and Fellows:-
1. That all resident students in statu pupillar ibe re-
quired to attend Divine service in chapel at least once a
day on week days, and twice on Sundays, unless pre-
vented by sickness, or by some sufficient cause to be
allowed of beforehand by the dean.
2. That no week be counted for residence to any stu-
dent in which he fails to comply with this order.
3. That if by negligence in duty a student forfeit such
a number of weeks as would involve the loss of the term,
in that case he be not allowed to keep the term next
suoceding to the one he may have forfeited.
CAMBRIDGE, MARCM 11.
PREVIOUS EXAMINATION.
LENT TERM.
Subjects of Examination.
Oa Monday, March 31,
Pale)'s Evidences of Chris-
tianity.
Tuesday, April 1, Old Testament History.
Wednesday —2, Euclid, Books 1., 11., and
Arithmetic.

ft;

Thursday, 3,1 •
Saturday, —5, 1 The Apology and Crito of
Monday, —7, !. Plato, the Ars Poetics of
Tuesday, —8, Horace, and the Gospel of
Wednesday, —9, i St. Mark.
Thursday, 10,
DAYS AND HOURS OF ATTENDANCE,
Division L
Monday, March 31 8 to 11 A.m,
Tuesday, April 1 8 to 11 A.m.
Wednesday, April 2
Thursday, April 3
* Adams, St. John's, to Ca warding, St. John's (inclusive).
Division 11.
Monday, March 31 8 to 11 A.M.
Tuesday, April 1
Wednesday, April 2
Saturday, April 5
Casson, St. John's, to Fowler, Jesus (inclusive).
~,...,:ce
Division lIL
Monday, March 31 - '''
.
Tuesday, April 1 ...... - ~ i 2 '':-'' '
Wednesday, April 2
1 Monday, April 7 8 to 11 A.m., and 12 to 3 P.N.
Fowler, St. John's, to Johnson, Emmanuel (inclusive).
Division IV.
Monday, March 31 ...... 12 to 3 P.M.
Tuesday, April 1
Wednesday, April 2 l2 to 3 P.H.
Tuesday, April 8
Johnson, A., Trinity, to Philip, St. John's (inclusive).
Division V.
Monday, March 31
Tuesday, April 1
Wednesday, April 2 l2 to 3 P.X.
Wednesday, April 9 Bto 11 A.m., and 12 to 3. P.M.
Philipson, St. John's to Stratton, Magd. (inclusive).
Division VI.
Monday, March 81
Tuesday, April 1
Wednesday, April 3 l2 to 3 P.N.
Thursday, April 10
Suter, Trinity, to Yorke, St. John's (inclusive).
Total for examination, about 450.
• The names are arranged alphabetically.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.
DERBY STEEPLECHASES.—TIIESDAY.
Match, 504 Owners up, One mile.
Captain Roster's Oscar ••• ••• •••
Captain Dickson's Solomon .
Betting-5 to 2on Oscar. Won easy.
Hurdle-race Handicap of 5 soya. each, 30 added; second
saves his stakes. One mile and a half, over iliZ
hurdles. (8 Subs.)
Mr. Tresham's Cogia, lOst 61b ... (Archer) 1
Mr. Davis's Matilda, 9st 101 b... 2
The following also ran:—Mr. T. Lister's Wharfdale
Maid, list—Mr. Eskrett's Lucy, lOst 81b—and Mr.
Harrison's The Swift, lOst 21b.
Betting-7 to 4 agst Cogia, 3to 1 each agst Swift
and Wharfdale Maid, 4 to 1 agst Lucy, and 10 to 1 agst
Matilda. Won cleverly.
The Midland Steeplechase Handicap of 20 soya. each,
10 ft, and 5 only if declared, with 100 soya. added; the
second saves his stake. Four miles. (16 Subs., 5 of
whom declared.)
Mr. Taylor's Jesuit, 9st 71b ... (Archer) I
Mr. Tresham's Ben Lomond, lOst 51b 2
The following also started:—Mr. oPalmer's Victim,
llst 51b—Mr. Jos. Osbort.e's Abd-el-Kader, lOst 111 b
Mr. Hughes's Miss Collingwood, 10st 51h—and Mr.
Mason's Trust-me not, lOst 31b.
Betting-6 to 4 agst Abd-el-Kader; 3to 1 agst Vic-
tim; 4 to 1 agst Miss Collingwood; 5 to 1 agst Ben
Lomond; and 10 to I agst Jesuit.—Won cleverly.
The Union Hunt Stakes of 10 sous each, 5 ft, for hunters,
&c., 12st 71b each; 4 miles. Gentlemen riders. (11
Subs.)
Captain Forster's Oscar
Mr. Story's Lottery
Mr. Taylor's Lunatic ...
Mr. Atkin's na the Nun ... 0
3 to 1 agst Oscar, and 5 to 1 each agst Lunatic and
the Nun.
The Donington Stakes of 3 sous each, and 30 added, for
farmers' horses, &c.; 12st each. Three miles. (7 Subs.)
Mr. F. Wilmot's Ironsidcs 1
Mr. C. Matthews's Dick Swiveller ... 2
Mr. Nicholson's Out-cast (late Sunnyside) 0
7to 4 apt Out-cast, and 3to 1 agst Ironsides. A
good race.
BETTING AT MANCHESTER.—TIIESD tY.
DONCASTER STEEPLECHASE.-4 to 1 agst Abd el-
Rader (t), 5 to 1 agst Maria Day, 6 to I agst Mulligan
(t), 6 to 1 agst Peter Simple (t).
DONCASTER HANDICAP.-3 to 1 agst Achyranthes (t),
5 to 1 agat Chantrey (t), 6 to 1 agat Heart of Oak (t),
6 to 1 aget Little Fawn (t).
HOPEFUL STAKES (DONCASTER).-5 to 2 agst Moun
tain Flower (t), 4 to 1 apt Change (t), 6 to 1 agst Ring
of Troy (t).
No change in the betting on the other events.

... 1

(0 wner) 1

'
:4; 24;,:,
,1*430 4f '440 4 4

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly after Twelve
o'clock.

PETITIONS.

Mr. H. DRUMMOND presented a petition from a
i place n Surrey in favour of the County Rates and Ex-
penditure Bill.
Mr. HEALD presented a petition from Stockport
against Papal aggression.
Mr. FREWEN presented a petition from a place in
Sussex in favour of the extension of the Ecclesiastical
Titles Bill to Ireland.
Several petitions were presented against the Eccle-
siastical Titles Bill from various parts of the country.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented several petitions from
Manchester in favour of the County Rates and Expendi-
ture Bill.
Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR presented a petition
from Exeter in favour of winding up the Land Com-
pany; also a petition from Ashton-under-Lyne to the
same effect.
Mr. 0. RICARDO presented a petition from the City
of Worcester in favour of Copyhold Enfranchisement.
Mr. THORNELY presented petitions from the Roman
Catholics of Bilston against the Ecclesiastical Titles
Bill.
Mr. CHILD presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Thisleslane, Staffordshire, praying that suah a mea-
sure might be passed as would effectively vindicate the
independence of the Crown of this kingdom.
Mr. DRUM.M.OND presented a petition from Ham-
bleton Union in favour :of the County Rates Bill, and
several others to the same effect.
BOARD OF HEALTH.

On the motion of Mr. FREWEN, copies of the
memorials presented to the Board of Health with re-
ference to the Public Health Act being put in force for
the borough of Hastings were ordered.
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE BILL.
Mr. M. GIBSON moved the second reading of the
County Rates and Expenditure Bill. The Bill was in
almost all its essential particulars the same es the measure
of last -essioii; but some slight alterations had been made
to render it more favourable with the magistracy, and t
mak tee carrying out of its provisions more easy and
effi,:ient. A great number of petitions had been pre-
sented is favour of the Bill, many of which came from
B sards of Guardians. He trusted, therefore, that the
House would allow the Bill to go into Committee.
Sir J. PAKIN iTON opposed the second reading of
the Bill, and contended that toe alterations that had been
made in the measure had rendered it even more objection •
able than the m astir, of last session. He would not
deny that tuta:.ion said repre.eetation ought to go to-
geth r, but tie asserted that in this Bill that principle
was attempted to be put in force in a manner that would
work the gri-atest injustices. Another serious change
was that which proposed to take away from the magis-
tracy the control and management of county gaols. He
did not consider this a regulation for the management of
county-rates merely, but a direct assault on the functions
of county magistrates by a side-wind. This clause of
itself swept away at least nine Acts of Parliament.
This was also the case with lunatic asylums, the super-
vision of which was taken away from the county magis-
trates in the same way. The Bill was brought before
the House last session, and it was referred to a Com-
mittee by general consent. The Right Lion. Gentleman
was chairman of it, and if Hon. Members would only
take the trouble to look at ;he evidence, they would see
the whole weight of evidence west to show that such a
Bill could never, by any possibility, be brought into
proper working, and that the effect of the Bill
would be to exclude from the management of
county affairs a large number of gentlemen who
had a large pecuniary stake in the country, and who
were in fact the real rate-payers. The Bill waa,.a bad,
.mischievous Bill, and the House would do better to
negative it at once on the second reading, without at-
tempting to battle through the 174 clauses, in the hope
to elicit something like a principle out of it in one corner
or the other. Th Hon. Mcinber concluded by moving
that :he Bill Le real a second time this day six months.
Sir GEORGE GREY said that, as the Hon. Baronet
had directly appealed to him and also to the House on
his motion for the amendment, he must at once say that
he did not at all concur with him in his opinion against
the principle of the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He did not say
that there were not many clauses of the Bill which re-
quired amendment, but he conceived that a Bill of this ex-
tensive and important character would necessarily require
much consideration by the House, and would of neces-
sity receive much amendment by the Legislature before
it became the law of the land.—(Hear, hear.) Had the
Bill never before been before the House, he might per-
haps have taken a different course, but when he recol-
lected how fully its whole principle had been discussed
last year he thought it was needless to go over the
same ground again. All the amendment which the Bill
required could very readily be given to it in Committee,
and at the proper stage he should be quite prepared to
state objections to those portions of it to which he could
not assent. He would, however, now say that he

thought that it would be a great calamity for the country
if the county magistrates were deprived of those powers
which they had se long exercised ter its benefit. The
Honourable Baronet had said that the effect of
this Bill would be to prevent the magistrates in a great
measure from sitting on the fitiaxcial boards. Now
with that he could nut at all agree. Oa the contrary,
his own impression was, that they would still continue
to act precisely as they had done. He certainly ob-
jected to the fourth clause which restricted the free-
holders from voting for na igistrat,As, for his own im-
pression was that the restriction ought to be the other
way ; and that members of the board should
not be elected because they were magis-
trates, but that magistrates should have a right
to be elected because they had the necessary qualifica-
tion. He would by no means pass by the boards of
guardians, but he would not say that the county financial
board; ehould be constituted exclusively out of them. He
tnought that the rate-payers ought to be left entirely
without restrictions in their choice, though he must say
that his own opinion va= quite in unison with that of
the Honourable Member f-'r Manchester; for ha
believed that the best modification that could
by adopted would be to have one half of
the belief coin posed of magistrates, and the
otner halt of other persons.—(dear, hear.) He had him-
self, yesterday, presented a petition from the county
which he bed the honour to represent (Northumberland),
and in the letter which accompanied it from the gentle-
man by whom it was confided to him, it was stated that
they did not apprehend any great or immediate change
in the position of affairs. His (Sir G. Grey's) opi-
nion was precisely similar, for it was his decided
conviction that after this Bill was passed the
magistrates would find themselves just in the same
places as those which they previously occupied.—
(Hear, hear) He thought that the Hon. Baronet had
hardly sufficiently obse'ved the difference between the
two parts into which the Bill was naturally divided.
There was a great difference between the duties of re-
ceiving and expending the county rates. The functions
of the magistrate were purely executive, and therefore
when elected on the beorde, they would have nothing, or
next to nothing to do with the subordinate business of the
recipients of the rates. The llou Baronet had asked him
whether he was prepared to take upon himself the dnty
of altering the amount of the constabulary force in the
different counties. To this he was prepared to say, that
without the concurrence of the magistracy he ,thought
not; but that if the Secretary of State, after communi-
cating with the magistrates, received their sanction,
be ought to have the power of directing that
amount. Towards the close of last session he had
been asked whether the Government would take
charge of the Bill; and if not, what course
the Government intended to pursue. His reply was that
be could not compromise the Government in any way,
but that during the recess be would give it his best at-
tention and d,cide upon the course he ought to pursue.
He had done so, and when the proper time came he
should he prepared to enter upon the details of the mea-
sure. Of its principle he entirely approved, and should
therefore vo:e for the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. W. MILES had listened with gnat attention to
what ha: fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G.
Grey), and could not help saying that he hid given the
best possible reasons why this Bill should emanate from
the Goverutnenh After some explanation between Mr.
Miles and Sir Geor4e Grey, the former geetleman
proceeded to gay, that the effect of the Bill in his
opinion would be to reduce the qualification of
the several members of the b ,ard, and toe consequence
would be that those magistrates who were most ac-
quainted with- financial operations would every year
become subject to a fresh election, and most probably,
after having become acquainted with their duties,
Would be superseded by other persons, who, in all
probability, would be totally ignorant of them.
He should like to know exceedingly how the petitions in
favour of the Bill had been got up, because he was
afraid they had emanated from boards of guardians
under an errotwo impression, which was fostered by
Circular issued by the slitn`-' to whom so much refer-
ence had aheadY - been made.—(Hear, hear.) When
the country ',EvrPsßeti its opinion in fay.,ur of a
particuler c.,ty f
the House to attend to it but he much
-r"` end witheut hesitation, it was
the ctu'y
wb,,o-ler there vv„„
general feeling
venryfavour
doubted
th i„; m,sse:... --(EL er,
of ) With reggarld to his
owe count'', I" 'lcci)u,;'tth*eeeu'e be better ki pt, or more
vigilant) a, 4, nn" e,""see nee bad b.-en, that
yearlast the rates vied only amounted to lid. in the
p actual ex penditure of the year, excluding
e
(et course the sums pate
_overnment f
13 0251., which was very prosecu-
tion, wal rio in.ro tri4ri as very
indeed when h. tr44tiiiivir• , of the country
0.4 he ) lie to t,hl,-,qtion to
tits.. represHita!j" are'inaPAny ex.
petal e. but tale Bill went father than that—(Hear
ht,r.) It was treught >ri tl dang"., and until
be saw the to “ter taken up tryGuvernee et
•
he must decline to stirsifo-f any Bill c ruing from a
private source, end thei efora he should vote fur the
atn-ndreent.—( Hear, hear.)
M.-. HUME c !nsidered this wag a
subj ct. and high •they wastime legislate l
imrrtnt
I upon it.
There was no tieessi.y for further inquiry, nor ought
they to be deterred from proceeding with this Bill by the
alarm rained by the Hoe. Member for Droitwich.
.He ta dt of the delicate interest they were dealing
Pr tlattbliseed and valuable institution
crirsr es toe`ftd,rmine, and warned them to
,Pts • legislated on this subject.—
, 11*511.4 Why, that was the very
psioititekgifehit reforming municipal corpora-
' iii
jar?, Vine.T-en that legislation could
ohs, til
nn
ts, thoughco it
try, woauald
ictrelitnte
N r
3

fiHE

terfered with an aneient end long-cherished in,
eee bc'eu
realiz,d ?—(Elear, bear.) Why, su tar from their legis-
lation having given rise to disaffection, it had led to an
improved state !af things, and given universal satisfaction
to the people. He denied that the evidence of Mr.
Roberts on this subject was unworthy of attention, and
joined issue with the Honourable Gentleman who
last addressed them upon the question he had raised
about the bona fide character of the petition.—(Hear,
hear.) He was almost ashamed to argue in favour of
this Bill, its utility and necessity were so apparent--
(Hear.) It needed no lengthy reasoning to establish
the fact, that mosey was better and more economically
expended by responsible boards, answerable for every-
thing they did, than by those who were accountable to no
body for the due and proper performance of their
functions.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, that was the
very principle contained in that Bill, and he should do
all in bis power to get it passed into a law.—(Hear.)
The expense of the police and prisons was in a very un-
satisfactory state, and it was necessary that a great
change should be made in their management, in which
he thought the rate-payers should have a share. In his
opinion it would be to the interest of the ma-
gistrates to disentangle themselves from the con-
test in which they were now engaged with the
rate-payers. This was a Bill which should be taken up
by her Majesty's Government, and he hoped it would
be allowed to pass the second reading.—(Hear.) Did
the Hon. Members opposite think that by refusing their
assent to the measure they would promote a better un-
derstanding between landlords and tenants ?—(Hear.) It
was only right and fair that the ratepayers in counties
should be placed on the same footing as those in bo-
roughs; and the Committee which had sat on the sub-
ject, as well as the Government, and a vast number of
petitions presented to the House, had all agreed that
such a course of legislation was reasonable, just, and
proper. On these grounds he hoped Hon. Members
would give their vote in favour of the second reading.
Mr. WODEHOUSE admitted that during the last 20
years the expenditure in the county of Norfolk had very
much increased, but he believed not more so than
in other counties. It was his conviction that the
Bill was not called for, and he entirely concurred with
the Right Hon. Baronet who moved the amendment,
that it would have the effect of introducing a body of
men to the proposed boards, who, from their situation
in life, could not give the necessary attention to those
subjects which would be brought before them. He
should vote against the Bill.
Mr. W. PATTEN said he quite agreed in the opinion
expressed by several Hon. Members that a measure of
this kind should be brought forward by the Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) He had some objections to the
details of the Bill, which he would not now enter into,
but of this he was quite certain that there was a
growing feeling in the country that rate-payers should
have some control over the county expenditure, and to
the attainment of that end he weuldaiBe his utmost exer-
tions.—(Hear.) He should vote for the second reading,
believing that, with the cooperation of the Govern-
ment, they might pass a Bill which would give
satisfaction to all parties.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He deprecated entering at present into the details of the
measure, the simple question before the House being
whether they should or should not affirm the principle
that ratepayers were entitled to some control over the
expenditure of counties. He should support the second
reading.
Mr. ELLIS gave his testimony to the truth of the as-
sertion that there was a strong and growing feeling in
favour of legislation on this subject, but this did not
arise from any disrespect for, or distrust of, the manage-
ment of the magistrates, but from a feeling that taxation
and representation should go together. The question was
not a mere tenant one, because the parties who felt them-
selves most aggrieved-were the small owners of property,
who entertained the belief that they ought to have some
control over the expenditure of their own money.
Mr. DRUMMOND admitted there was a growing de-
sire in favour of some such a measure, but he was at a
loss to understand how they could pass any Bill which
would give any real control to ratepayers. lie thought
parties were greatly deceived en the subject,
and that not one shilling of expense would
be saved by the Bia. They used the word
" responsibility," which was eternally being pronounced
in their ears without having any clear or definite idea
behind it.—(Laughter.) He very much questioned whe-
ther the Bill would answer without giving much stronger
powers to the Secretary of State. If these,boards were
formed they would see upon them, as in
the case of unions, persons of short-lived
interest doing exactly what the Hon. Member opposite
often wished to do, settling matters of Enance without
any reference to the future.—(A laugh.) Though he
did not agree with the provisions of the Bill, he should
not, believing the principle involved in it a most impor-
tant one, object to giving his assent to the second
reading.
Sir H. VERNEY supported the Bill, and stated that
at a recent election there was hardly any point taken
up more strongly by the tenant-farmers and rate-payers
than that of having some representative body to control
the expenses of counties.
Mr. SPOONER denied that on that side of the
House any opposition was intended to the principle of
giving a share in the control management of
their finances to the country ratepayers, but the present
Bill was a most clumsy and absurd means of carrying
out this principle.
Mr. RICE supported the Bill, bat had no objection
to see it considerably altered in Committee.
Captain PELHAM supported the amendment in the
hope that the Government would be induced to bring
forward some measure which would answer the ends in
view. _ _

Mr. ROBERT PALMER concurred in the opinion
that this measure ought to be taken up by the Govern-
ment, and with this view he would urge his lion. and
Learned Friend the Member for Droitmch to withdraw
his amendment and allow the Bill to pass a second read-
ing, on the understanding that it should pass into a Se-
lect Committee for the purpose of being considered in
detail.

Mr. DEEDES admitted that there was a growing
feeling in the country in favour of some measure of this
nature, and he should be inclined to vote for the second
reading if the Right Hon. Gentleman who had charge of
the Bill would consent to the Bill being sent up stairs,
which: course he, for one, would consider as transform-
ing the measure into a Government Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Hon. Baronet the
Secret -,ry of State was willing to serve on any Commit-
tee which might be appointed ou the Bill, and to state
there those amendments which he thought necessary in
the Bill, hut it was scarcely fair to expect more from
him.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. GIBSON said that he should not think it de-
sirable to go into Committee for the purpose of taking
vidence, for he thought they had quite sufficient before
ahem; but if they were to go into Committee with e
chance of coming out again with a Bill carrying with it
something of the nature of a Government measure,
I,e should be quite willing to consent to such a course.
He wished to say one word in reply to the Hon. Baronet
the Member for Droitwich (Sir J. Pakiogton). The
Hon. Baronet had referred to the evidence of one gentle-
man who appeared before the Committee, and stated that
it was insufficient. I❑ answer to that, he might say
that the gentleman referred to had thought it right to
speak only from his own experience. With respect to
Lord Stradbroke the Hon. Baronet had stated that his
Lordship had objected to many parts of the Bill, but he
had omitted to say that Lord Stradbroke was, in fact,
favourable to the constitution of county financial boards.
If, therefore, his consent was necessary for this Bill to
go to a Select Committee, he should be ready to assent
to such a proposition if it was understood that no evi-
dence was to be taken, but that the Bill should be con-
sidered.with a •iew to its further progress. Ho trusted,
therefore, that the Hon. Baronet would, with this agree-
ment, withdraw his amendment.

Mr. HENLEY said that as the Right Hon. Secretary
for the Home Department had intimated his apprehen-
sion of the difference between the administrative and
executive powers of the magistracy, he thought that it
would have been much better if the Right Hon. Baronet
had introduced a measure proposed by himself. Ile was
not at all surprised to hear the Right Hon. Uentleman
lie;Mensber for Manchester say that he was:quite:op-
posed to receive evidence, for be was quite sure
that if any evidence were taken stsch a case would be
mach out that, he would. not have the lice to bring
so bad a Bill before the House again.—(Efear, hear, and
a laugh.) From what had occurred to-day the Bill was
placed in an entirely different position to that which it
formerly held, and he should therefore place himself en-
tirely in the hands of his Hon. Friend and either vote
with him if he pressed the House to a division, or if
he withdrew his amendment be ready also to
withdraw his own opposition.—(Bear, hear.) He would,
however, say, that after the Bill came out of the Com-
mittee be should consider it to be invested with all the
weight of Government responsibility.
Sir J. PAKINUTON said that he also felt that the
Bill was placed in a very different position, and should
therefore withdraw his amendment. Be would, how-
ever, observe, that in speaking of Mr. R)bert Smith's
evidence he had stated what he had heard upon
authority. Under the circumstances, and considering
that the Bill would now have a Governmental character,
he would withdraw his amendment.

The amendment was than withdrawn, atid:the Bill was
read a second time.
EXPENSES OF PROSECUTION BILL.
On the tno ion of Sir G. GREY that this Bill be read
a second time, a conversation ensued, in which Lord
Ebrington, Mr‘ Forbes, Mr. Packe, Mr. Alderman Sid-
ney, and Mr. Henley totsk part, the purport of which
was to show that the expense of rresecntions had in-
creased, that the Bill was a good all, bat that it would
not relieve the agriculturists trom an unequal rating.
Mr. T. EGERTON sugg,,sted that it was advisable to
p+y clerk of assize and sessi,ns by salaries and compel
them to get up prosecutions on behalf of the public.
Mr. FREWEN hoped the 8.11 would be made appli-
cable to Scotland and the Isle of 4isn.
Mr. HUME was of opinion th.st the present mode of
paying for prosecutions was based upon an errotte,us
principle, and the sooner therefore is public r-osecutor
was appointed, and a simple and unifor.o .syst,ra of pro-
t,cutin,,, criminals adopted all over the eouutry the
b
-tter•—(Elear, hear )
with the
4..sSti.r G. GREY promised that all these valuable sug-
sons should have his best consideration. Hs agreed
lion. Gentleman who last addressed' the House.
'11E" some more efficient check. ought to be exercised
over the sxpen„, •
House might depend
dncurred tor prosecutions, and the
:subject had not uponh. it that this branch of the
two or three years escapedtheeort.pen2aoes of assize had been re-
is attention.. Within the last
,000/.—(Hear)—and the
re-
duced by upwards
the same rules andarrangementsitw. which had led
to that beneficial result(ails intended to
phue hear.) rl )e
ex-
tend
to other large counties.—
proTshee-
question relating to. the appointment of a
cutor was surrounded with con •
siderable difficulty, but
creationofficer was not yet con-