The Sun.
London, England, 1851-01-25 00:00:00

cur present 1 present progress—the education question is one
that is gradually assuming an important shape in tho
public .miud.—(Applause.) It is a question about which
most honest and intelligent men, I think, may be al-
lowed a good deal to differ. It is not so clear as some
questions. I do not mean that it is not clear that
everybody is better for being educated ; but I mean,
considering the peculiar circumstances in which this
country is placed with regard to some of its institu-
tions, I can admit that every honest and intelligent
man can differ as lo what should be done upon this
question of education ; but now in Manchester the right
thing is going forward, because every conceivable shape
of the question is being looked at and discussed.—(Ap-
plause.) One party brings out a scheme which has too
much Church in it—(Laughter)—but I believe they can-
not agree about it themselves, therefore it is not at all
likely that they will persuade other people to take it.
Another party brings out another scheme, which, al-
though it does not Meet many person's views—sad con-
scientious views—must be admitted by all to be perfectly
equal to all; and therefore it is a very important thing;
—Meer, hear)—and • having looked at this question of
education with great interest for a long period, lam
bound to say, that if any man admits that through any
agency of taxation, and through any municipal control
or management, educational institutions are to be esta-
bliahed more widely in this country, I have no doubt
whatever that the only plan that can be received and
acted upon without doing a teal violence to the conscien-
tious convictions of many, will be something like-the-plan
which is laid before the public in that which is now I
believe, called the National Public School Association.
—(Loud and prolonged aeplausc ) There is another
thing going on in Manchester which deserves a word of
comment, and that is the very admirable project which I
believe has been supported by the present mayor—it has
certainly been carried out mainly through his influence
and- his exertions—for the establishment of a public
library upon the most liberal and universally catholic
principles.—(Applause.) Well, I think that the present
mayor, when he descends from his municipal throne, how.
ever long he may live, may look back to his mayoralty
with very great satisfaction, when he refers to and re-
flects upon this most admirable institution, which he bas
been ehisfly instrumental in founding.—(Hear, hear.)
But look at that question a little wider; it signifies that
the pressure of 1810, and the ascendancy of that day, is
all gone, never to .come back.—(Applause.) nevi is
no party in Manchester tegainst that .public library.—
(Applause.) And, comparing ourselvn with 1810, there
is not eery much intolerance hero now. We have had it
tested lately.—(Applause.) There has been au attempt
to frighten the country out of its propriety. I believe
the cockneys have been very much frightened—
(Laughter)—l mean the parochial mind of the various
eivieions of London. But now l, tus see what has been
the state of feeling in Lancashire and Yorkshire. Be-
ginning with Hull—the most eastern of the large towns
of this district—the most important and widely-circu-
lated paper in that town has altogether repudiated the
attempt to raise up a bigoted and fanatical cry against
the free exerciseeif the Catholic religion in this country.
Go to Leeds. A paper there of- the largest influence
and circulation—by far the largest influence and circula-
tion in Yorkshire—hes given no countenance to this at-
tempt. And I must say, that of all the speeches-that
have been delivered upon this question, I think a speech
delivered by Mr. Baines, the editor of that paper, at a
meeting of the ministers and friends of the Baptist and
Independent churches, was the most true to the point
of any that I have read.—(Applause.) Well, then, cross
the borders of Yorkshire and come to Manchester. You
have two papers here of very large circulation, and in
their respective walks no doubt of great influence ;
neither of them has given any countenance to this in-
tolerant cry, and one of them has very boldly and re-
solutely opposed ie—(Oheers.) Go on to Liverpool,
and you find the papers there of chief circulation and
chief influence have taken the same tone that had been
taken by the papers in Manchester. Well, lam free to
argue from this, and do argue from it, that .all this at-
tempt to disturb the public mind—all this attempt to
point the finger of scorn at millions of our fellow-
countrymen that differ from us in religion—(Applause)—
that all this has failed among the 3,000,000 01 the po-
pulation of this kingdom that inhabit tue counties of
Lancaster and York.--(Loud cheers.) Ido not know
how it is, but there is some fatality about two things
that the people of this country have bean discussing for
generations past—corn and Catholics.—(Lsugbter.)
This time last year there was almost a terror about corn.
Some people down here were afraid that corn was going
to be shut our; and the 'squires were making a great
disturbance about, not the Pepe!, but the corn aggres-
sion. It is. about 500 years ago that there was -a sort of
Parliament—not, I believe, a very regular one—held at
Kilkenny, where English interests very much preponde-
rated. They passed what has been called the Statute of
Kilkenny—a law by which they made it penal, in a
high degree, for an Irishman's horse to graze upon an
Englishman's laud.—(Laughter.) Now, from that time
to this, there has hardly ever been a session of Parlia-
ment when this question of Catholics has not been
brought up; and old women of both sexes—(Laughter)
—in ali parts of the country, have been frightening
themselves to death about this Papal aggression. Now,
I have got a receipt myself to put an end to fear on this
account. It is a remarkably simple one. But you find
that men who have been brought up to certain profes-
sions—the medical-profession for example—they don't
believe in the virtues of cold water, they don't believe in
the virtues of any timples—l was going to mention
something very dreadful they give now and then; but
they deal in something that is sure to be poisonous if you
take much of it. Now, I have som-ething very simple to
recommend, and it is not the Queen's supremacy; it is
notfthe Prime Minister's letters; it is not that inde-
scribable twaddle which the bishops of the Established
IChurch, to their intellectual disgrace, have been writing.
—(Prolonged applause.) If it were a question of intel-
lectual supremacy, why I should tremble for the Church
of England.—(Laughter and cheers.) A very excellent
Churchman, a friend of one of the archbishop's, speaking
to me only the other day about Cardinal ffiseman's
epistle and of what the bishops had written, said, " I
thoroughly believe that if the bishops had set their cooks
to work as a committee to draw up all their addresses to
their clergy, they would not have been much less dis-
ereditable to them than they have been."—(Laughter.)
Well, but now for my receipt. This thing which men
call Popery—as I think the Dean of Bristol, in a speech
1 that did him great honour—said, is not confined to the
Catholic Church.—(Hear, hear.) It is to be found,
probably, more or lase, in almost every Church; and it is
that which we should guard against—it is the giving up
our own intellect and our own consciences into the hands
of any man, or any body of men.—(Applause.) It takes
1 a more offensive shape in one Church, probably, than
another; but the Church of England, while it repudiates
the doctrine of authority on which the Church of Rome
rests, has not got the courage to adopt the other theory
—(Hear, hear)—and to take the principle of free in-
quiry as its basis.—(Cheers.) Now, my prescription is
this—that we should not attempt in any way whatever
to control opinion—(Hear, hear)—but that we should
encourage among all classes of the people that
sound and healthy constitution of mind . by
which they will be able• to discern: and to de-
termine far themselves,- and by which they will be
instructed enough to repudiate and repel every effort
of every priest of every Church that shall endeavour to
take from him that liberty which the New Testament
were worthless if it did not inculeate.—(Applause.)
And with regard to this question, let us never forget
that there is a country, three or four hours' sail from u',
which we call part of the same empire, inhabited by
7,000,000 persons acknowledging the Roman Catholic
religion ; men who have bad guaranteed to them, if
anything can guarantee in such a manner, as full iberty
to worship as we • possess who are not of their Church.
And let us bear in mind that for hundreds of years
to
e
great department of our legislation has bep directed_
the sole object of exterminating that rel tgion; and yet,
in spite of all the parliaments and
supremacies, and prime ministers' monarchs, queens
letters could do, Ca.
thoclism has gradually and certainly submerged every
county. Cromwell planted Tipperary ; the northern
counties were planted by English and Scotch ; in whole
districts of that county there was to be found a majority
of Protestants; but there is no majority of Protestants
to be found in any county of that country at this moment.
300 years ago Bacon said,:" Let us not try to put down
Cetholism in Ireland by persecution ; but let us try_
to make Catholicism by Protestantism." If that had
been done, assuming Protestantism to be, betterotFlad
purer than Catholicism, why, I have not
a
sir
arwds of
if the world is not intended to roll i b
stead of forwards, that at this momen4 they would at
f the Catholics
of Ireland had not become Protestants,and their minds
least not have abhorred Protestantism'
ryupon the question
would have been open to free, Ju,"nagniy
other countries, and
of religion, as Catholics are_tiiirge
extent in the United
then, at these points
as they decidedly are toeit
Loking,
States of America. . with regard to the population
t for a moment that we are
to which I
,on _
have referreadmi
of this district; lii be .eve
____
al _
ds• I we ade a good and a great
going backwar
ego, and that since that period men's
step four scare
become released from many superstitions,
minds have
loosened rrol, many prejudices and false theories; that
there is in all
classes of society a more harmonious and
coffin'
• I feeling,. and that the tranquillity which we see
i 9 not the political apathy which it is described to be—is
rwt the apathy of indifference to whatever belongs to
the true interests of the country, but is a state of things
daring which opinion is being formed, and out of which
will come—when some accident shall supervene—will
come further action, gaining still more and still greater
victories for the people of this country.—(Loud deers.)
Mr. Gibson made an observation in which I coincide.
lie thought if the Government were statesmen—wise
statesmen—they would take such an opportunity as this
of doing things which really they can do now, I believe
without difficulty. There are questions of economy in
which we are driving them as fast as possible. Thuet
the
OM
gress in that direction is not all we could wish; h
tide has been turned; instead of running in the direction
of expenses, it is running in the direction_ of economy;i
0(
onlyrho
and I hope Sir Charles Wood, having tasted
able to make
perplexities, but the great sweets of beingo
th conclusion that
remissions of taxation, will come to
-9 and the country
if he could, while trade is impror .
d ish "expenses, he
becoming more wealthy, &r
are it constantly in his
might, for sessiotis to comeof nta,ces,
if not to the extent
power to make remissions this year, at least to an ex-
tentthat ho will be able toi
felt among the people. Now,
that will be sensib y.o___s daring
i tranquil times, it
with regard to
ofmakihnnt forms
the highest order to do it. Any
requires statesmansh
ilidemand of tumult, it does not mat-
man can concede at the
be the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert
ter whether it
'eel on Catholic Emancipation, or whatever question
:1. befure them, or however much men may have opposed
rr. somehow or other, when the attitude of the people
becomes threatening, every man can give up, and by
giving up for a time he can pacify. But there are few
real ;rho can take occasion of a time like this, and bring
forward well adjusted, judicious measures—measures, it
maybe, that do not meet the views of the extreme men
on either aide, but measures which unite so largo a pore
tion of public soutiusant and opinion in their favour, thss:,