The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-19 00:00:00

Lord CAMPBELL agreed with the suggestion made
by the noble earl, that his noble friend should move for
a select committee to investigate the entire subject.
After a few words from Lord HARROWBT and the
LORD CHANCELLOR,

Earl STANHOPE said that the recommendation made
by his noble friend, the President of the Council, for the
appointment of a r-e'ect committee, met with such ap•
proval, that he would, with their lordships' permission,
on an early evening, move that the entire subject be in•
quired into by a committee of their lordships' house.
The motion was then witldrawn.
The Charitable Uses Bill was read a second time, and
their lordships adjourned at a quarter to nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Imprisoned Debtors Discharge Society Bill was
read a third time and passed.
The Cambridge University and Town Bill, the Chel-
tenham Gas, the Cork and Youghal Railway, and the
Eayt Somerset Railway Bill, were considered, and or-
dered to be read a third time.
Sir J. WALAISLEY presented a petition, signed
by the " chairman" of a meeting of married women of
Leicester, deprecating flogging men for beating their
wives, as tending to brutalise and demoralise them, but
praying that some means might be taken to protect th:.
property of married women from profligate husbands.
EDUCATION.
Sir J. PAKINGTON begged to ask what course her
Majesty's Government intended to purshe with respect
to the vote for education
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was proposed to take all the other votes in the estimates
before they proceeded with the vote for education.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. DISRA.ELI said it would be convenient if' the
Government would state how they intended to proceed
with the business next week.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
the estimates were not concluded that evening they
would be proceeded with on Monday, but if concluded
then the Government would go on with the Police Bill.
He begged to give notice that en Monday he should
move that the house at its rising do adjourn till Thurs-
day.

Mr. DISRAELI—Then the City of London Bill
would certainly not come on on Monday.
The CRANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER—Cer-
tainIy not. _

CAPITULATION OF KARS.
Mr. DISRAELI said a motion stood on the paper
for Thursday next, in the name of his learned friend
(Ldr. Whiteside), with respect to the capitulation or
Kara. lie understood it would he disagreeable to the
Government to proceed with the motion on that day.
Ile should, therefore, like to know what day would be
agreeable to them to proceed with the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
Monday week instead of Thursday would suit.
In answer to Sr J. PAKINGTON,
The C ItiA.NCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER said if
th 3 Estimates were not concluded on Monday the Police
Bill would be taken on Friday night.
Mr.' PACKE asked if the Agricultural Statistics Bill
would come on on Monday ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
in the negative.

STEAM TO THE COLONIES.
In reply to Mr. E. DENISON,
?Ir. WILSON Paid considerable progress had been
made with this subject, and' the disposition seemed to be
that the colonies themselves were not averse to contri-
bute towar,ls the expense of a monthly postal commu•
nication. A circular had been addressed to all the nolo-
by Sir W. Denison, the Governor of Aus-
tralia, and to that circular favourable replies had been
received from most of the colonies. When the Govern-
ment issued the Treasury minute it was unaware of
those proceedings, and, Government lost no time in
forming a scheme to effect the object in view. Agree-
ably to the minute the Treasury had issued tenders had
been received, but the Government had not ac•
cepted any of thorn, but they intended to
issue fresh tenders, but no directions with re-
spect to the route to be taken ; that would be left
etrtitely open. As soon as the Government received a
tender tlrt they thought they would be justified in re-
ceiving? they would have no hesitation in doing so.
Sir J. PATCINGTON begged to ask whether it vi•al
intended to haVe direct communication with Australia
irrespective of the Indian mails, and in first-class v, awls ?
Mr. WILSON said they did not intend to stipulate
in the advertisement they intended to issue any particu-
lar time or description of vessel.

THE FIREWORKS IN HYDE PARK.
Lord RAYNIIAI.`.I asked by whose directions and
under whose superintendence the large building recently
erected in Hyde Park had been constructed, and under
what estimate it was proposed to defray the expenses ?
Mr..AIONSELL replied that the structure referred
to had been erected upon the authority of Lord Pan-
mar', with the concurrence of the Chief Commissioner
of Works. (No, ro !) He believed that that very day
Lord Pa.nmure and the Chief Commissioner went to the
spot together in order to ascertain whether there was
any ruode of avoiding some inconvenience anticipated
from the temporary obritruction of one of the roads
through the park, (Hear, hear.) With regard to this
other part of the question, it had been arranged with
the Chancellor of the Exchequer that an estimate should
be prepared and presented to the House for defraying
the cost of the building and other expenses of the like
nature, If an estimate had been submitted beforehand
the building could not have been completed in time for
the purpose for which it was intended. (A laugh.)
•Sir F. THESIGER—May we ask what that purpose
lye " near, hear," and laughter.)
Mr. MONSEL L —For fireworks. (" Oh, oh ! "'and
loud lau.ghtvr.)
Weur°4l9BnewlhKethNeOr.k asked the Chief Commissioner of
' ew.;ea.:teudn,dearndhivisildettrielecrtihoen
htandatsatialice
building had been .
tinned the exp
"3'4 being paid out of the revenues of
the Board of Works?
Sir B. HALT:, replied that he had nothing whatever
to do with the cost of the structure. He visited the
spot that day with Lord Panraure, being anxious to see
that the therowghlares in the Park were not interfered
with, and he was confident that no inconvenience would
arise in that respect.

Colonel KNQX said the right hon. gentletnaa bad
ndtanswered his question, namely, whether be sanctioned
the erection of tEe bui:ding ? (Bear, hear.) •
Sir B. HALL—That was no part of my duty ; Y have
nothing to do with sanctioning. the erection of the. Luld-
°(Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. G. DUNDAS—It ha 3 been said that the struc.
tare is intended for the display of tinworks. May I ask
what the fireworks are for, land whether, as reported,
they will cost 10,0001. ? (Hear, bear.)
The ORANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER—At
the proper time full information of the details of the ex-
penditure will be given to the house in any form which
the hon. gentleman may desire. (A laugh, and cries of
"Bat what is it for ?)
After a pause of some moments,
Mr. G. DUNDAS rose and said that Lis question had

tem of transportation. He believed that with all its errors,
and with all its abuses, there was no system of punish-
ment which tended so much, or was so well calculated to
give encouragement to substantial reform. I cannot help
thinking that that original system of transportation—
more especially that which was the most abused of all,
viz., the silent system—though open to many objec-
tions, was too hastily abandoned ; and he thought a
good deal of prejudice entered into the question. He
agreed also with the system of transportation by which
the convict was placed in an entirely new state of cir-
cumstances, in which he had the means of obtaining an
honest livelihood amongst a free though sparse popula-
tion, which rendered his labour so valuable, in face, that
he had no difficulty in maintaining himself in comfort.
That was a position he thought which was most favour.
able to the development of the reformatory system. Ho
not only regretted that they had abandoned the silent
system, but that transportation to any of our colonies
was now an impossibility. It was for us now to consi-
der how we could best dispose of our convicts now that
we could no longer place them amongst a free colonial
population. The noble earl had referred to the advan-
tages of what, in the old days of transportation, was
I known as the probation system, by which different stages
were instituted, commencing with a period of extreme
severity, which was relaxed in a variety of gradations ac-
cording to conduct, till ultimately a ticket of leave was
granted, and the sentence was variously modified until he
became afree man. There were great advantages in that sys-
tem. He entirely appreciated the advantages arising from
the moral effect on the conduct of the prieoner,arisieig from
the feeling of hope that by his own conduct he may be
able to better his condition ; bat-, at the Caine time, that
principle must be applied with extreme caution. Setting
aside the question of deceit, the system might work un-
fairly in a variety of ways ; for instance, set a ma❑ to
work who had been an accomplished housebreaker, at
something which required great manual dexterity, and
set another to the same work whose hands had done
little but handle the plough, and who had committed
some trifling offence, they would no doubt in this case
put the comparatively innocent man to by far the se-
verer test, and he would be placed to a far greater dis-
advantage than the man who had merited the severer
punishment. (Hear, hear.) The same injustice might
arise out of the comparative strength or weakness of
the prisoners. There must, therefore, be a very
large amount of discretion left to the governors and
superintendents of our prison:s. The present system did
not involve a sufficient variety of gradations in relaxing
the severity of punishments. The system was capable
of many modifications, and there ought to be a greater
variety in the degrees of punishment. He quite concur-
red with what had been said of the great advantage of
having an admixture of a free population with convicts,
and there was no doubt but the prosperity of many of
their colonies was owing to convict labour ; but the cry
which was raised, and justly raised, by the people of
New South Wales against the whole of the convicts
being sent to them, threw them all on Van Diemen's
Land, and that at a time, too, when capital was dimi-
, niihed in consequence of the great losses which had been
sustained. Under these circumstances the Government
did what they could in making roads and clearing the
country to remedy the evil, by employing the convicts
on public works of this description ; but with ail this
the complaint was, that the convicts remained in super-
abundance, and that the ticket-of-leave men there, as
well as here, were in a worse position than those who
were compulsorily employed. With respect to any new
plan of settling a penal colony, he trusted the Govern-
ment would pause before they adopted any permanent
plan. He concurred with much of what had been said
on the subject, and believing that much a lvautage
would be derived it the subject were referred to a select
c )minittee, he should cordially support his noble friend
who so ably brought it forward, if he thought proper to
appoint one.