The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-03 00:00:00

1851.

Sir E N. M., X CON pros, nted several petitions against
the Eeol siesticat I'ttle3 and. the Religious Houses Bill.
Mr. SPOONER presented a petition' from Mr. Ed-
' wards, who was recently committed to N,svgate in con-
sequence of his conduct before the St. Albans' Election
Committee, stating that his affairs were going to ruin,
and expressing the deepest sorrow end contrition at
the offince he had committed; Th‘ petitioner threw
httnself on the mercy of the House, and prayed to be
discharged. The Hon. Member gave notice that to-
morrow he would move that the petttiOn be printed with
the votes, with the view of submitting a motion to the
House that Edwards be discharged on Friday next.
Visclunt NE WPOR r. presented a pethiOu from cer-
tain Peers for an alteration in the oath of supremacy.'
Mr. HUME presented a petition from a place in Scot-
land against the Scottish Sewerage Bill.
• Mr. SCULLY presented a petition froM a place in
Ireland against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.
Viscount CAS TLEREA.G H presented a similar peti-
tion from the Town Commissioners of Newry.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Manchester
against the Regiurn
ME,II-I,OPOLIE AN POOR'S RATE.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD moved far a return of the rate
in the pound levied tor the relief of the poor in each ) ear
from 1831 t 0,1850 inclusive, on the annual value of pro-
perty rated for the metropolitan parishes of St. Luke's,
Niiddlesex, Shoreditch, Clerkenwell, Sr. Marylebone,
Hackney Union, St. Pancras with Hampstead, St.
Martin-in-the-Fields, Islint;ton, li,nsington, St. George
Hanover-square, and Bermondsey.-Agreed to.
LOSS OF THE ORION.
Mr. 'HUME moved that there be laid before this
House, by the Commissioners of Northern Lighthouses
(as rupp:enient of the return No. 288, ordered to be
printed 14th May, 1851), a return of copies of all cor
respondende between the Commissioners 11,,c1 the Trea-
sury, or the Admiralty, and of the documents therein
referred to in regard to Portpatriek Harbour Light, or
in regard to the loss of the Orion" steamer. •
Agreed .to. _ _ .

of May the motion for a Gannidtitee had been put and
carried. For the lions-. therefore, to rescind that. ori,,er •
in an indirect :orm was a Bang--reins operation. It it did
so, be (Ur. Aglionn))4ave /o.tice that in case the reso-
lution to re-cind the vote of inquiry into the income-tax
was.carried, he should move
.the extension of the tax to .
three yt ars.
Mr. HUME explained the:course he had taken in the 271
cons!ruction of be CommiVße. On the EloutiC deciding
that there, should be a Committee he had put down 00 the
list only four oumt son his own side; and these were the
names of Hon.. Gentlemen who had brought forward sub-
stanttve. muttons on thesubj,ct of the income- tax in 1847 8
le .had then. crossed over to the floe. Member. for
Buckingham:-hire, aLd showing him his list, asked him.to
recommend four of his friends, which was done--the
Haan. Member being himself the fourth, only at his (Mr.-
Ilunize'e) express solicitation, Be (Mr. flume) then.
Went to the _Right Hon. Bart/130f the Member tor.Ripon,,.
and asked bun to serve on the Ci mmittee with three of
his tnoii:tcal friends of the Peel Administration, but that,
Hight floo.Pironet declined to do so. He (Ur. flume) ~'z;?
alter this went to the Chancellor Of the Excht4itiers,ex'!
pres,ing a wish to have Mr. Goelburn, Mr. Cardwell,and.

Mr. F' Peel; These fe ruled eleven Members if they,
.
chose to serve. The members recommended bythe ,
Chancellor of the Exchequer were put on, with the ex, • ee
ceprion of Colenel Rawdon. Tee Hon. Member con-
eluded by stating that he would cast the onus of the mate -
ter on the Goverement, by pressing his motion.
Mr. DEEDE bud supported the motion on a former . •--
occasion to limit he incetue-tax to one year, on the dis-
tinct understanding that a Committee should be te..,
pointed to inquire into the operation of
,that tax. Atte.
could not, therefore, vote for the amendment. .He Qb2: • ''.
jeered, however, to the we.), in which the landed interest
was represented on the Committee, though he Admitted
the composition of that body was better then last week.
He ( Mr. De. s) objected altegether, hoiveier, to the. ?-
two Members for the West Riding being en the Cetnl
tnittev, and he not, moreover, see why the 11. one •:
Member for the Qu en's. County was placed upon it, ex-
eept with the ult. nor object of
,extending the incOme-
to. to Irelat.d.—(Cheers) He,. there fore,
.recotninended
the Hon Molubet• tur teiontr,,se to suspend, for the Pre-
sent the fit, ther notioination of the ceminiteee, wititthe.
roe ato meet the objectioes that 'existed agejliSt. W
CO
positi, n. • '
Sir 1.1. WILCOUGHI3Y.said that the Eten• Member-
•"I. fur Meatioseforgot one rte-p. Ile, gave notice -of his
motion on one night; and on the next hp carried . a gO9.
lion which had in its terms been, changed. Tile How
taerelore, had no opportunity of uuthu.g to,a decision, oe..
-the qu•-stion, , - • •
. Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon, Gentieniaia.wOuld'
have preeented some diEfulty had he in thnfirat instaneel'
ad :pod the suggestion of thief:lon. Member for the. West
Ri ,iug by .moving ter a tnedification of ..thertax. if be.
embed to have a modification. The House would ;hen- J. 4
nay. known what they were abut, and the Ron. Mein
,bers'could then nave voted tor thepropositiun or against
it, The vote for a Committee of TuqUiry the other night
been supported by the 2()
,Mentbers.who
favour on different grounds. No ,wonder, then, there
should be a mizunders,atioleg on the nietter.e After the.
vote bad been come to the other evettiug, he stated- that
Government were willing to consent to an inquiry by:
Committee into the tax, and that it . a committee were
appointed it should be as far us possible cunetituted.eV•ii-''',.
p rsuns taken from both sides of- the House convenience
With. suhj,,,cts i f finance, and who. would .be received by r:
the Committee as authorities on that subject.. That c""
Wes one way in which he wished the Comnuttee. to, Neel:,
appointed. But the Honourable Gentleman had not •e,
succeeded in his object. In the first plece,. the
certain gentlemen belonging to the. Cabinet, and holding • 'O,,
office under the late Sir Robert Peel bed not consented::
10 act oi2. the Committee. The Committee would not he
such a Con: mittee as he could approve of. Then. therser4-s4,„e
was one name, on the Committee to which be should dee 7:e
cidedly objeCt—.;,t,seas the name of the Chancellor of theeellt,
Exchequer. He t4id nut thick the. Chancellor .of the eJ:fil
Each Tier ought to go into a Committee of that kind
with to o or three geutleoen who might be of his opinion
to contest such taiints wit:l the other Members,_. as, to
whether there should be a Lnodificatiun of the income-,.,!`'
t4x, or otherwise. Such propositions ought to be made.'
by the Chancellor of the Excht quer himself in Came
mittee. There was only one thing which eemeined,,-and
that was—if the Hon. Member foe Montrose did proceed
to propose such a Committee, he should come, to &ewe
agreement previously with other Hon. Members, who f. .16
might be .able to meet the arguments relativeto:the hit!'
herent defects of the tax being, as be.bad been.told.be-,-"1"
had once stated, unequal, vexatious, and fraudulent., He ,„
could not vote for the amendment.
. :Mr. HENLEY said it was bard for the Hon. -Member
for Cockernieuth to_take the course be bad taken. The-::
House was placed in this position—the Noble Lord said.
the Committee could not be constituted, in the way The
could have desired; therefore, let the. Hon. Member for
Montrose have his Committee to work its own wicked
will. He bad no doubt of the ability of the Hon...Mem- e•
ber, arid the strong case „the Committee would present, • •'''
bottle considered such a Committee would not comn3and
the confidence of the
,country, and therefore be must:
vote for the amendment. ,
Mr. HOUSMAN said many similar motions bad been. •
made with various fortune. But so far from the present
embarrassment having arisen from the views of extreme •
parties in that House, the truth was, that the esobarras-
ment had been caused by Government relying a ith too
much confidence on the votes of their usual supporters. .
He considered the Hen. Member fur Montrose had taken -2
the only course that was suited to the nature of the oc-
casion. The Hon. Member's object was not to make
the tax perpetual, but to make it more equal. There
were various opteioneas,to the tax—his was that the
tax, as an experiment, had been attended with great ad- *,•,'•
vantage.
dr. T. BARING said the country would -never permit
the tax to be continued without a Committee of Inquiry.
He could not vote tor the amendment. He could not •
consent to shelve the inquiry unless some security were
given that the tax would not be made a permanent tax. • ' :
Mr. BOOKER said no one on his side of the House • •' -•
would &site to give a shock to public credit by with.
drawing the tax at a, time when the fiuencial position of
the country might r• quire it; but he certainly did not
approve of the propusal for making it permanent." He
approved of it in the original sense, and for the origins"
purpose for which it was proposed. ,
Mr. COI3DEN half voted. leggiest the • motion of .the,-:
Hon. Member .for Montrose the other night, because
the motion was calculated, in the form in which it MSS
made, to obtain .votes from Hon. Gentlemen opposite mho -
did not entertain the.samc Vices on the question which
he did. He had . made appeals, 'private and public,..to
the Honourable Member against bringing forward, his,
motion in its original- form. He assumed -that &Come
mittee would be granted, hut he eever expected e;
any good- from the Committee_ as • far as the -one,
year was concerned, because he was...satisfied a majority-,
would be decidedly opposed to such a modification.
wished to vote on the subject of modification. The •,'•
Hon. Member for Cockermouth said if so, that would- .•
ne assenting to the principle; now he wanted to let the
country see what the House -said and what the House._
did on this question. He was. of opinion the. Hoene, el-11,
and ehe country were labouring under a delusion on the ,
-.abject. The press bad led this country to believe that
the House desired credit for the honesty and bona fids'
character of the decision which had been arrived at. .
He had voted against the Hon. Member when the pro- '
posal was to limit the tax fur one year; but he could .
not vote
.against the proposition for a Committee.
confessed he would prefer to have the tax, bad as it erase,
tor three years rather than one year, because he did x!eit..
look at the queetion per se: be 'looked at It !with-
reference to the whae of the taxation and the necessities-
ef the revenue. if the income-tax was bad, other
taxes were worse: and pressed more injuriously. on -the
people. He should vote
good faith for the motion,
although some Hon.- ,
Member. said it was impossible to
teeth of the former vote. _
turn round, and, in the face of the country, vote-in the . •
fldthr.e.HatnE,Rndßu
jlEenS.t was understood to Ea 7 he Would vote .
The House then divided
Fur the amendment ••• ••• 94 ..
Fcr the motion • ... 193
'majority against the amendment-. 99
On our re-admission to the gallery we found .
Mr. HORS 'd AN inquiring when the 'nomination of
the e would take place ?
Lurdnl
ufe RUSSELL was understood to name Friday. -
Mr. MONeELL- wished to know whether the Ecelesi- • asti„j Tide, Bill would be proceeded with on Friday I. ""'
It so, it would-prevent many Hon. Members from lewv-
.ing town on account if the hdicays.
L rd J. RUSSELL mast proceed with the Bill On
Friday. H. c .old not conseet to Jose a day on account _ •,,
of the reason alleged by the Hon. M- mbar.
EUCLESIAS*I IC AL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL. - •
The fl,nse then went into Committee on th's Mr. WALPOLE rose, and said be promised on Fri- --
d•ey to slate-the course "be intended to pursue with -re-
spelt to certain amendments he had -to propose. He
wished to support the Nobie. Lord 'as fee as he ceould.
and at the same'time -be wished to -make the
as conapl to as he could, and as effectual for its purpose.
nefore it passed through Committee. He India consee-
queuce given notice of amendment., which he considered
to be alt tight in 'themselves, anti-some absolutely men,
tial for the success of the Bill. Feeling this he said that ,
he could not consent to give way as to any einiendmeenat:
on which he b• sieved depended the success of the thi .
nn eas .
sure; nor could he give way in any
amendiniae to induce
some stroeg countervailing reason wa"b°"ned why he
him to do it. Two reasons had been tieggto,
tingEtt not to press his amendments.
let?enaehe6r for Dublin
d•-claratery clause, or, as the Hun. --10,00 t all be asked
that the -
said, tee Walpole clause; had
givenunbeeetisere to presa
fur, iu effect—and, therefore, it was
intimated by the bleb's)
it. l'he other reason had been inhdu_y
to the passing of - -
Lord opposite, that Members e
frreere delave and impedi- :••• ,
the Bill, when they saw the that bad taken place,..-
merits to the progress of the
sof the Bill ought not "
impediment.. He '
would be of optnien
to add to the delay or ibetha, these reasons ought. to
was strongly of opinionth hiae-eso much so, that he - -
have great weight a
He leisure to spare from -
thought it right, hcfibvif g
ha was otherwise occupied, =
that the friends
to
business
whole subject, and, - having done • Committee what amendments he '
n.s and. what amendments be would waive. •.'
HiviamvildngPr„llained the declaratoryt Clause, which, to his ,
rtoecosttaistieclentro'7,4:::'
, more imp r tame than anything else in the
mind, fearing to impede the progress of the Bill.'
through Committee, l e should propose -nothing but
what warereally essential to the proper working
of the
Bill.He itenght three 'things were. essential.. In the_
first place, be considered - -
it wasabsolutely essential to
the proper smelting of the Bill that it should clearly lay
down, define, and point out the constitutional principles -
on which the House proceeded. Since the di bate on
Friday last he was more convinced than ever that the
suppesed ambiguity existed more in the minds of its
oppouont,rs than in the clause itaolt. lie *IA auto. so
lii:tko'olgtoi if 413rero re• -