The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-31 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the- Report of the
Committee of Supply relative.tt? the Civil List.
On the question for the second reading of the
Mr. NICIIOLLS said, he intended to concur
with the Report, but
_he thought that a degree of
delinquency had been incurred -by the late CHAN-
CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in suffering the debt
to accumulate, as Mr.-BURKE'S Bill in 1782 had
prohibited the incurring of any future 'debt with
iespe&_ to the Civil List ; a disobedience of that
mTits therefore-a misdemeanor. He thought the
HOuse onght.to take some steps to prevent any ac-
cumulation of debt in future upon the Civil List. •

Mr. ROBSON wished some distinaion to be
made betiveen the -Debts of the Crown, and the
Debts of the Minister. HF was proceeding to make
some observations relative to the Pension List,
when he was called to order by •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
who said, he thought the Hon. Gentleman was not
at liberty, in discussing the present question, to
comment upon any questions except those of the
Civil List. Mr. BOkKE'S Bill, had liinited the
amount- of those Pensions to 95,0001. a year, to
which, he thought, the Hon. Gentleman ought to
confine himself. , •

The SPEAKER said, the Hon. Gentleman was
not at liberty to comment upon the whole of the.
Pension List, under the. present question.
Mr. RoßsoN proceeded, hut was shortly after-
wards called to. order by the SPEAKER, and sat
down.

The CII4NCELLOR cyr the: EXC 1-lEQUE I? said,
.he did not with to have it understot d, that he was
unwilling to have the PensiOn List discussed, hut
ttle Pension
.List which alone had any reference to
the
,prt-sent-question, was limited by jMr, BURKE'S
ail! to 9.5,0001„ a year, and notwithstanding seve-
ral compensations tier the loss of Office;, there had
teen an abual saving under that head, in sixteen
years, including allowAnces to lAtc Mioistexs At

Foreign Courts, and compensation kr loss or Or.
fices, in consequence of sundry Plans of Reform,
of ItS,sool. Thee Honotirable Gentleman, (Mr.
Ntouou.s) had imputed blame to :the late CHAN-
CPSLLOR of the EXCHEQUER, for suffering the
Debt to accumulate. The House would recoiled,
that the subjeCt had been very minutely discussed
within twnty-four hours past, and thOugh it was
known Mr. BURKE'S Bill had prescribed a certain
order in the payments of the Civil List, 'yet it was
admitted, and admitted by an Hon. Gentleman in_
rimately acquainted with the intentions of theßight
Hon. Mover of-that Bill, that the wording of that
Bill was loose and indistind. It was then -stated,
that subsequent to the year 1782, several Accounts
relative •to the Civil List had been laid before the
House, 'whilst the Right Hon. Mover of that Bill
was in the House, by which it appeared, that the
,payments had nth been made in the order prescribed
by the Bill, and that the ProviSions were wholly
insufficient for the purpose which it was intended to
answer. He thought it necessary to say thus much,
because 'doubts had arisen as to the construction of
the Bill, whilSt there was no ground fur asserting,
that the late Ministers had flown in the face of a
Legislative Provision—there was no doubt - that
there would be a grave and solid ground of ac-
cusation against any Minister who
.had done so.—
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. NICHOLLS), had ex-
pressed a wish that provision should be made to
prevent any future accumulation Of Debt from taking
place. He had stated, that it Was lus intention to
propose a plan, according to which- every-addition
to the expenditure of the Civil List should be laid
before the HOuse, within a few days after it bad
taken place : lie had also stated, that with respeft.
to the occasional payments, revery exertion should
be made by the Officers of the Treasury to class
them under distinEt heads, and that estimates should
be Made of the probable expenditure, in which, if
there should arise any excess, an account of it
should be laid before Parliament. lie trusted, that
whilst the House adopted every necessary means
of precaution and security, they would feel that to
scrutinize and investigate the expenditure of the
Civil List with too minute and jealous an eye, might
lead to consequences highly injurious and mis-
chievous, and that they would not,
.therefore, push
that scrutiny and investigation to an extreme.
Mr. NroxoLLs explained, and wished the title
and preamble of Mr. ButucE's Bill to be read.
Mr. BR/IGGE said, the Hon. Member did not
surely mean to argue, that the_ preamble of an Ad
was to be binding, if there was no Clause in the
At to sustain it. He thought the whole Aft ought
to be read, as well as the title and preamble.
Mr. NICHOLLS again .explained. •
Mr. ARCH BALL thought the Hon. Member did
not confine himselrto explanation.
Mr. ROSE said, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
NI CHO ra,s) had charged a- Right Hon. Gentleman
with a heavy misdemeanor ; he submitted whether
such if charge might not as well have been brought
forward-on the preceding evening, when his Right
Hon Friend was in his place. It there had been a
misdemeanor committed, the House were parties to
it, as accounts had been laid -upon the Table sub..
sequent to Mr. BURKE'S Bill, which drew the at-
tention of the House,
,and on which they made
grants, although those-accounts were in violation
of the Aft as now interpreted. ••-
Mr. Nicuoies and Mr. Roasozz severally ex..
plained.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he did not
Mean to deny that it was a misdemeanor to ad con_
a
Crary to an Aof Parliament ; but surely it would
not be contended, that it was criminal to ait con-
trary to what might afterwards turn out to be the
sense of the Aet of Parliament. Such a proposition
could not for a moment be supported, and had
.cer-
tainly never been lifted upon in any Court of jus.
rice- If the late Ministers had miscondutied them.
seives in this instance, they had done it in com-
mon with the House, who had sanctioned their-prp.
cecdings.

Mr. JONES was willing to give the Resolution
his support, as he understood that the CHANCEL.
LOR of the EXCFIEQUER 1.,0u1d propose a plan, to
prevent the possibilliry of a debt accruing again
upon the Civil List.

The CHANCELLOR o f
.the EXCHEQUER
said, he had'not stated that he shquid tnakea pro-
position to prevent the possibility of a debt being
incurred...

The Resolution was then agreed to.
Adjourned at a quarter past five till to-morrow.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DICER.E FALSUNI AUDEAT ?