The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-06 00:00:00

Misr,

sion to which he alluded to, was not the first time when
'his person had used such infl tmmatory language. Last
'ummer, Mr. Otstler, in company with a gentleman late
a Member of this House, made a public entry into Man-
chester on the market-day, and passed from one end of it
'o the other ; on that occasion the most abusive, violent,
and intemperate language was made use of. Afl tg was
carried through the streets before the procession, and on it
was the figure of a gallows, which was to denote that the
masters were to be hung unless they came into the views
of those composing the procession. Excitement might
prevail in the West Riding of Yorkshire and elsewhere,
on the Factory question, but he trusted that no such feel-
ing would prevail in the minds of Hon. Gentlemen, but
that they would come to the consideration of the question
with that calmness and impartiality which its importance
deserved.
After a few words from some Hon. Gentlemen, the pe.
tition was laid on the table.
FACTORIES BILL.

Lord ASHLEY moved the order of the day for the
Committee on the Factories Regulation Bill.
On the question that the SPEAKER do leave the chair,

Lord ALTHORP rose and said, that in addressing the

House be would, in the first place, beg to draw their at-
tention to the situation in which this measure novr stood,
and he would suggest what appeared to him the most rea-
sonable course to be pursued in order to arrive at the end
of passing such a measure during the present session as
would satisfy all parties. In the first instance, from the
delay which had occurred, and fur which he was not
able to account, the large reports upon this subject
were not yet in the hands of Honourable Members,
and be thought that the House, having agreed
to place the subject in the bands of Com.
missioners, it would be inconsistent for them now to pro.
ceed to legislate at once, even without having time to exa-
mine what these Commissioners recommended, exc'usive
of the vast mass of evidence which could not be looked
through. A Committee of the whole House upon such a
measure as this, and involving such a mass of details, was
not the mode in which he thought they could come to
a satisfactory conclusion, and he was sure that the delay
in a Committee of this description would be such as to
prove that the course would he the very reverse of satis-
factory. Since be had looked at the provisions of the
Noble Lord (Ashley's) Bill, and the report of the Com-
missioners, it appeared to him that no course would be so
advisable, or tend so much to a proper arrangement, as the
referring the Bill co a Select Committee. By this he did
not mean a Select Committee that should have powers of
calling witnesses, and entering into evidence, which would
be productive of the greatest possible delay, but he did
not think that a Select Committee up stairs, acting under
instructions from the House, would be productive of
any delay, but, on the contrary, he believed that the
reference to such a Committee would have an infinitely
greater tendency to expedite the measure than submitting
it to a Committee of the whole House. But on looking
at the provisions of the Noble Lord's Bill, he could not
but feel apprehensive that if the Bill were passed in its
present form, it would hive a most injurious effect
upon the manufacturing interests of the country. He
need not say, that if the effect of legislative inter-
ference were to increase the power of foreigners to
compete with us, so far from being a benefit to the poor
people whom it was sought to protect, any measure of this
kind would be one of the greatest injuries which could be
inflicted on the manufacturing population. He said so,
because be need only draw their attention to the state
of the manufacturing districts to show, that if any measure
had the effect of diminishing the demand for our goods,
the result would be to throw the ssliote of the population
of those districts out of work, and in consequence pro-
duce the most miserable rffects. He was not one to say
that nothing ought to be done in this case, as, from the
general excitement and feeling throughout the country,
Parliament must interfere and prevent unfortunate chil-
dren from suffering under cruel oppression,and being treated
with undue severity. But when the measure of the Noble
Lord, taking the ages of the parties into consideration,
went to fix on the short period of 10 hours, he thought
the Noble Lord shortened the period too much as regarded
adults, more particularly as all the arguments urged in the
House referred to children of 9, 10, and 11 years old, and
did not apply to adults, who had au option to work or
not as they thought proper. The House had the opinion
of the Commissioners, that the protection afforded to
children was by no means satisfactory ; let the House, then,
limit themselves to this subject, without applying
themselves to parties for wilom their interference
was unnecessary, as they could choose for them-
selves. He wished, then, that the Bill should not be
altered in this respect, and that the best protection
should be afforded to children properly so called. leaving
out adults. With this view, should the House agree with
him, he would wish to refer the subject to a Select Com-
mittee, and be would suggest that an instruction to that
Committee should be, that children before the farm 'etsth
year of their age should not be allowed to work more than
eight hours a day.—(Hear, hear,) He did not wish to
alter the laws regarding cotton-mills as respected persons
older than that. It would he for the Committee to decide
whether the Bill should be applied to other species of ma-
nuractures ; but be roust observe that there was one de-
scription of manufacture—that of silk—which had not
been inquired into. Every one was aware that the labour
in silk mills was less severe than that in other manuf
s-
tories; and it was also certain that a greater number of
children were required in this than in other departments
of manufacture. This fact would cause a necessity for
the Committee to consider whether it would not be
right to make a distinction between silk and other
manufactories, or whether there should be any inter-
ference at all. The great object urged by the Noble
Lord (Ashley), and one which every man would wil-
lingly give his aid to, was to give children the benefit
of education, which it was impossible they could enjoy
while they were compelled to continual labour through-
out every day, and he (Lord Althorp) therefore thought
that erre should be taken that the children should have
this advantage during the intervals which occurred in their
labour.—(Hear.) The great difficulty in every case was,
how to carry laws which were passed into effect, for it was
well known that although the law restricted the labour in
cotton-mills, it remained almost a dead letter. It was
known that many would practise evasions, and therefore
no provisions should be made without securing means to
carry them into effect, for the consequences of not doing so
would be to give an unfair advantage to those patties
whom no one would wish to benefit—that is, to those
who would evade the law and do what the Legislature
had stamped as both cruel and unjust. Upon this
ground, therefore, he thought a provision ought to be
made for the inspection of mills. Having expressed these
views, he thought by carrying them into effec, the Legisla-
ture would do all in its power to protect children. If
they were to go further and declare, as the Noble Lord
(Ashley) wished, that for the effect of any accident in a
mill which caused death the penalty of manslaughter
should attach to the masters upon the representation of a
coroner's jury, we should place them in such a situa-
tion as could not be tolerated. The Noble Lord (Lord
Ashley) had gone out of his way in this instance, for,
by the law as it stood, any culpable negligence in this respect
was a crime. To say, then, that a coroner should issue his
warrant to apprehend a manufacturer, not only did not af-
ford him adequate protection, but was even worse than
absurd, for it was unjust. He wouid not go at any
greater length into this question, but would conclude by
moving, as an amendment to the motion of the Noble
Lord—" That the Bill be referred to a Select Committee,
with this instruction—that ;be Committee should make
provision in said Bill that no children who had not entered
into their 14th year should be allowed to work for more
than eight hours a day, and that in the intervals of their
labour care should be taken for their education, and that
inspection of the mills should take place, in order to secure
the operations of the above provisions."
Lord ASHLEY said, that as the only question now
was, whether the Bill should go before a Committee up
stairs, there was no necessity for his entering at large
into the subject. It was only for him to say, that if there
were inconsistency in legislating without having the evi-
dence taken before the Commissioners, he (Lord Ashley)
would be pronounced a guilty party, because be had pro-
tested against the course pursued, and pointed out that
should this be followed, it would be impossible to legis-
late. But he now asked the Noble Lord (Althorp),
would he hold to the guarantees he had given—for, if not,
it was odd that he (Lord Ashley) should have been put
off from day to day as be had been.

Lord ALTfIO. P said the inconsistency would be the
going into legislation upon this subject without having all
the details before them, whereas a Select Committee could
with ease enter into them all.
Lord ASHLEY said that if ',7. ',dile Lord would affirm
the principles of his Bill, he might do what he pleased
with the details; but he was, nevertheless, opposed to
the course proposed, because he knew that its effect would
be either to delay the Bill to the end of the session, and
make its passing impossible, ox that it would come down
so changed from the Committee that he could not recog-
nise a single feature of it as his own. With respect to
the inspection now proposed by the Noble Lord, he (Lord
Ashley) would have introduced such a provision had he
not feared opposition to it, and this he would therefore
support. He also had no objection that children uader
13 years should work no more than eight hours, Neither
had he the slightest objection to the compulsory system of
education mentioned, for it was a deep source of reeret