The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FYIBRUARY 130, 1846.

siastical Courts Commission, in which, ou one question, five
of the members differed from . three; 'on another, two from
seven g and on another, one from all the rest. As a general
rule each of the commissions seemed to take an individual
journey through_the statute-book, but all to return to the
smile point and with the same conclusion—namely, that the
fortress of abuse was completely impregnable. (Hear.) It was
quite clear, then, that if they meant to succeed with law reform
they must turn to some means which: had not as yet been
adopted. What were those means to be ? He did not rely on
the example of foreign countrios,i nwhich the expedient was a
minister of justice, but at home we had'a precedent in the ap-
pointment:of a Minister of war, who bad in a great degree re-
duced the military chaos of which the country had some-
time since complained to something,* like order. They had
also a poor law minister who had rendered signal service, and
a minister of health, and a minister of works ; why not
a minister of justice ? (Hear, hear.) The task of consolidat-
ing our statute law was a great work, and would require the
whole energies of the ablest man we could got. It could not
be made the amusement of dilettante lawyers, or the casual
occupation of busy.practitioners; no, it would require the
whole time and attention of a first-rate man; and he believed
that Government would acquire strength by the appointment
of a minister of justice with sufficient qualifications. (Hear.)
Such minister of justice, whether so called or Secretary of
State, should have a competent legal staff, and his office
should be the repository of all the judicial statutes of the
country—a point in which we were at present singularly defi-
cient. That office should be open to complaints of the work-
ing of the various courts, and suggestions of amendment,
it should collect information, and from that informb.-
fion it should be the duty of . the minister to prepare
measures which the Government could subsequently intro-
duce to the house. In addition to that, the Minister of Jus•
tice might superintend the current legislation of the country,
net interfering with the free action of individual members,
but ready when called on for a suggestion—for he believed
there were few individual members who would not be glad to,
refer from time to time to a competent authority respecting
the technical bearing of their measures. They would thus
avoid the errors which were constantly creeping into acts of
Parliament. A very striking instance of the imperfect man-
ner in which some of our statuteswere framed hadlatelybeen
cited by Lord Lyndhurst. It appeared that some,time ago an
act had been passed making it penal to forge a parish register,
and the penalty was to be given, one moiety to the informer,
the other to the parish. During the passage of the measure
though that house an hon. member proposed to add to the
Pecuniary mulct, 14 years' transportation, and consequently
it became the law of the land that in such cases the in-
former and the Parish should divide the' fonrteen years'
transportation between them. (Laughter.) He trusted
that the statute-book weuld'be cleared of these absurdities,
and its contents consolidated; and, in concluaion, he begged
to express his opinion that the motion of his right hon. and
learned friend, indicating, as it did, a want which had before
been recognised by Lords Lyndhurst, Langdale,„Brougham,
and the Attorney-General, and which was generally felt and
acknowledged', would end in some real and energetic attempt
at a remedy. He did not presume to dictate to. the Govern-
ment what that reraedyshenlcl be, but ha thought the remedy
proposed by his.right hon, and learned friced an important
attempt in the direction of law reform, and as such he con-
mended it to the notice of the Government and of the house.,
Mr. BAINES said that the pubic were greatly indebted
to 'the right, hon. gentleman opposite for taking up the
question, and for the temper and ability. with•which lie had
introduced it to the. house. • (Loud cheers.) It would be
impossible to over-rate the impbitance of the subject
indeed he had himself long hail occasion to observe and
lenient the stitte of things existing with regard to the statute
law which 'the right lion: and learned.gentleman had pointed
out so clearly, He (Mr.Baines) believed that not only in that
house, but generally thronghOut the country, there was a per-
fect doneurrence of opinion as to the existence of great evils
in the etate, of the law, and thnneceseity there was of hitting
.sonic substantial remedy. The only question left for them to
consider was what thefremetly should-he. - His right hon. and
learned friend had not proposed any diStinet remedy, although
he had established to the satisfaction Of every. one that a state
of thrhigs existed whichloudly celled for a remedy. The right
hon.geutleman spoke merely of a departMent of pubic justice;
'differing in his views on that 'point fromthe hon. and Teamed
member for Plymouth,' who, it uppeared; would east on the
/proposed department functions far More extensive than were,
:contemplated by his right hon, and learned friend, A depart-
ment of politic justice, for this ,country might appear eesyin
itself ; but they must consider what the idea involved.
Sonia persons believed that the Minister of Justice ought to be
a 'person having high political funct'ens He believed that that
was the view of the lion, and learned member for Plymouth ;
but his right hon. and leaened friend had confined himself to
a narrowerissue—namely, whether it 'would bo desirable,oto
have some authority to assist in the businesS of legislating, And
to.that point only, lie (Mr. L'a'nes) should direct his obeerva-
Mons; He had already stated that not only in his own opi-
nion, but in that of a great majority both in and out of the
house, the conviction existed that • the present state of our
lais required a remedy, and, a confirMation of (he general oPi.
Ilion was teas) found in the report,,of the Sthtute Law Coning&
skin, in which not only was the existence of evils stated, but
the sort of remedy necessary was shadowed forth. The commis•
oion reported that nothing 8 itisfactorycould be expected, until
either a beard or some body was appointed whose duty it would
be to revise all bills„ for Parliament. That was the report
of the law commission, and was most deserving of attention,
seeing• that it had attached to it the mutes of Lard
Chanaeller, Lords Lyndhurst, Brougham, and Broaghamn, the
Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, tho Lord Chief Baron,
Lord Wensleydale, Sir W. Page Wood, &e. That being their
view, and the cohcinsiOn to which they had come last session,
he might perhaps be 'allowed to call attention to what they
had done during the present, since their labours bad been re-
sumed. He Was happy to siy that most valuable suggestions
lia,rl been laid before them, some by the hon. and learned
member for Cambridge, °there by the hon. and learned mem-
ber for Suffolk, and a plan had been_ devised which ho be-
lieved he might ii.ty had received the sanctien of the commis-
sion. Tho end of that plan was shadowed forth in the passage
lie had read; which, he took it, was identical with the motion
of his right hon. and learned friend. He was not, Of course,
permitted to' state that plan in detail, ''but he believed it
wonid embody same most vithia.ble suggestions. The question
then for them to consider was whether it would not be desir-
able to see this plan before they pronounced a definitive ovi-
hiOn; That, he was authorised to say; was the view of the
d Lame members for Cambridge and Suffolk ; and; beingqW;
perhaps it would be concurred in by his, right hog. and
laarned friend, to whom the house and :the country were
much indebted for the ability with which he Lad introducet
the question.
Mr: L. KING said that most of the evils in our laws might
be' traced to the military system, which had 'at one time been
found the most convenient for the Gwerantant of nil eoun-
try, the only change being, that for the savage barbarity of
the dark ages we bad substituted tiih Mere refined mischief
and legal subtleties of the presetat, time. The statute laws
were now in such a condition that they could hardly, be un-
derstood by the lawyers themselves ; but there was another
branch, namely, tie unwritten law, which was in r} still more
unsatisfactory state. The law was, in short, the declaim of
the judge, and remained so until some subsequent judge moo
to a contrary conclusion, and the result was that a wise man
would prefer submitting to injustice, rather than defend his
right in a court of law. Reform might be difficult, but they
must recollect that only a `short time since our military was
as bad as our legal system, but taught by the disasters in the
East, we had already arrived at a better state of things. The
right hon. gentleman who, had spoken last augured, great-
things from the report of the commission. , He must confess
that he had no faith whatever in that commission- for he re-
membered one that was established in 183 ff, all the members
of which had since died off. or been used up elsewhere, with-
out producing any result. The commissionerwho still remained
wasn personal friend of the "Lord Chancellor's, and it was to
be regretted' that' his lordship should have permitted a private
friend to retain as a sinecure that which should be the most
important office of the day. From the law officer 3 of the Crown
they could not expect much, so, much was their time o!eupiec
with other matters; besides, Lord Lyndhurst had pointed on,

that in the commission, tberelad beep. a ,w4pt of, cp-operatioU
between the ,law bfileers and the other commissioners. Neither
could, they expect much reform f6n? the Government; indeed,
tivi First Lord of the Treasury had Intimated as mush in reply
to him (Mr. L. King.) Having quoted 'a 'short passage from
Lord Canipbell's-" Live oc. the Lord Chaneellors," the hon.
member concluded by giving his cordial support of the motion.
Mr; WIGRAM "supported the motion, and thought th'at
his right hon. and learned. friend had exercised a wise dis-
cretin!' In not pointing out the'partjeular lino of reform that
_ _ _

ought to be adopted. 7; One point he thought should be deter-
mined on, namely, that the minister of justice, if appointed,
should have a seat in Parliament. Such a minister might
initiate measures of law refOirn, a thing which it was hope-
less to expect froin a Goierfilnerit: 'He did not recollect any
which had been origiAated in that quarter since Sir R. Peel's
valuable alteiations in the criminal Jai. What they wanted
was something done in the same business-like manner. lie
did not expect much.from codification, s:eing that the codifi-
cation of the merchant shipping acts had: required a bill 'of

_ .
500 Or 630 clauses; but Clio riatutesinight bo taken up sub-
ject by subject, and thus practical amendments might be car-
.ried out. At present Government did not take up the rait-:
ter,-and when a• PrkVate“nieniter carried a bill through with
groat labour,lit,was generally foand to be unsatisfactory, and
ultimately rejected by the House of Lords. Thinking that
his fight hon. Mead's motion offered the nearest appro::ima-
Mon to a remedy, he • (Mr. Wigram) should give it h's
support. -• • •• .. . • •?

.Sir G. GREY—My right hon, friend (Mr. Baines) has ex-
pressed, on the part of the Government, net only their sense
of the importance ofthe subjeCt, but their concurrence in the
spirit of the resolutions moved by the right hon. and learned
gentleman opposite (Mr. Napier). They `agree with hint,'
there are very great defects the present statute book, and
itill:gTeater defects in the mode in which acts are passed year
by year through the Legislature. They agree with him that
it is most important and desirable 6.l;remedy should-be applied
to those defects, and . that, in the'words of the resolution,
some meaue.should be provided " for securing the skilful pre=
paration and proper structure of Parliamentary bills, and for
promoting the progressive amendment of the laws of the
United Kingdom." I hope that, having met the proppsition
in tliat spirit, the right ion. gentleman will not ask the house
to pledge itself as to the mode in which the object shall be
attained—viz.; by the•appointment of a public department, at
the head of which shall be a Minister having a seatin this
house. (Hear.) I hope that he will, at least, wait until
. . _ . _ _

,he subject haireceireci the cousideratiOn of the embientanT

;earned men •who constitute the Statute Law Commission
to whom it baa been referred, that we may have the benefit

pt. their-, opinion on some points to :which thd right
honourable gmtleman has called the attention of the house:
(Hear.) The report of that commission, having been laid
.b.efore the,Lord Chancellor, will be submitted to the Statute
Law Commission anew, and it will afterwards be submitted

.
• fit•merf '• hope the
berCelit of the opinion of those emine
to the. Crown and, to Parliament. We shall then have then
Governmentp.ame„t will not n„Notaarbe
soasokreadtarito
opfle(slgteltoth, eaamsehlevehsataob'
bees.
*lel:A.)114 tb-niiiit • and who is to be invested with +functions far
• 0
le,yond•the power of any individual, unless assisted by a nu-
merous learned and highly paid staff. While I cannot lint
agree in much that has been said relative to the careless mode
in which acts of Parliament are worded, lam afraid that nO.
Minister of Jaatice will I) event many of these evils unless
Parliament abandons something of its free right of legislation
and its arrangement of details, which are the cause of much
. of the inconvenience of which the right hon. gentleman com-
plains. .
leve Theight hon. gentleman would appear to be dis-
posed te ninny of ,he details of acts of Parliameot to be
settled out of this honse ; but this would be difficult, if- of
impossible, under the present practice, for there is hart Y, a
bill passes in which amendments are not made in committee,
many of them verbal, .many important, and Many proposed'without:notice. These amendmenthirecommittee are the chief
cause of the inaccuracies and in,convenience to which the right
hon. gentleman has .(I+rerted. The evil may lie partially re-
medied by the draughts of bills being first snbmitted to the
public department which the right hon. and learned•gentle-
man proposes to create ; but the house regard with ex-
tram 3 jealousy the proposal to entrust any.
.department of the
Government with the reiision of the bills of mdependent
hers, end the control over that right of making ;iroludinents
in committee which is now so frequently exercised. I 'agree
with the right hon. gentleman in thinking it desirable that
the house should support the Government in objecting, to
also passing.
the
the introduction
thhiellreiglvhhtichhonloiativraebnleo prospectaonf
upon
Agrelior;
, hasty steps being taken
gewral question,ncleprreezeaarte ding as a subject of great
importance,
when a competent body' are considering the subject, and I
think it inadvisable that the Government should 'he at

-

present asked to pledge themselves to one
.particular mode
of effecting .the object. I caneot agree with the
hon. and learned gentleman the member for Gambridge when
ho complains of the absence of any attempt: to. improve the
legislation of this country. He has alluded to :the important
reforms introduced by Sir R. Peel for the improVement of the
criminal law, and says that nothing has beendoile for the im-
provement f legislation since that period. , I. think ho has
scarcely done justice to some of Sir It. Peel's Successors. I
cannot take any credit for myself, but when I was Secretary
of State before, the valuable and iniportant consolidation of
the criminal law, known. as Jervis's Acts, was' effected, and
this is justly regarded as one of the greatest improvements in
modern legislation. The Statute Law eon/Mission have pro-
ceeded in the same'course, and we shall soon, I trust, have
the opportunity of passing our opinion npon the labours of
that commission in classifying and codifying the statute law.
If you want a great deal of Work detie in a short time you
must have a dictator, and whatever the le,botirsnf individuals
may be, the bills to give effect to them ratist undergo a first.
and second reading iu both 'lonics, and that examination of
the details by independent Members, which renders the codi-
fication of the statute law a sloWer process hi thit4 than inother
countries which do not possess the unnnestiotiable advantages
of free institutions. The subject is one that has engaged the
attention of the Government, and.l hope we shall soon be able
to take a decided step upon it. I therefore hoe the eight hon.
gentleman will not now ask the house-to . pass a resolution
without knowing what must be , the staff, what must be the
expenses, and the duties which the new:minister is to be ex-
pected to perform.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I think that tive IniuSe 'is greatly in-
debted to the right hon. gentleinan (' ft. Napier) for having
brought before us a grievance of great extent and importance
and I think. that he has likewise propieed with great mode-
ration a proper remedy. I do not think that the remedy he has
proposeclis open to the objection taken to it by my right lion.
friend the Chancellor for the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. &Lines),
• namely, thatit is vague and indefinite. It was the duty of the
right hon gentleman not to enter upon details, or to dictate to
the Government-in- what matinee theineW ,office was to be
constituted, but simply to state the,principle 'upon which he
wished into 'be established: Bet while l think the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Napier) qUite justified hi making his motion,
I do not see how the ,house, eta ovhat lies been stated by
the Government, can proceed to adopt the resolution of the
right hon. gentleman, since it appears that persons of great
authority and learding are noW.asSembled,`tor the purpose of
considering. ies subject, and haat°. nearly agreed-upon a report
which is about to engage the-seriOue attention Of the Govern-
ment.' But whilewe are bound to wait:tos see the recom-
mendation of the commission in a mature state... Mid in its de-
tails, there is a great difference between the proposition
of the right hcn. gentleman acid that *pounded ,by the
Government. The right hon. gentleman proposes' that a re-
sponsible Minister shall be appointedbyewhat name he is to
be called is not very. materi 4 —byt reephnsible to Parliament,
avhose duty it shall be to propose ancl'condlice through the
House of Parliament in-which lie may Sit—and I stippose lie
would have a seat in this house—ill such inea4ures bf, legal
reform as the Government may approve— I think the ap-
pointment of such a Minister would be of treat.adVantage
and convenience. Whatever amendments to his billg.tiiey ho
proposed, he will either be able to defend his menSurcs,-and
to show in what respect they are,hetter than the amendments
proposed, or to give way to those ern-mar:its if lie secs rea-
son to do so, and this house will be disposed to listen with
greet deference to the arguments .of Such a Minister. It is a
totally differeatthiug.to have, as it seems intended to have,
certain officers under the Lord Ohmic:dicta' or :same other _Mi-
nister, whose businese wouhr6e to frame the details and to
correct the language of nets of Parliament, Starch an arrange-
ment would be exeellent ln. eider ta avoid these ,gross blun-
ders of which an illustration • has been given. to-night ; but,
with regard to the general:principles of nur legislation; officers
or that kind, not having seats here.,-not being able to explain
themselves Ae; the house, and not knowing thc•vislies of Par-
liament, would have, very little weight and authority. They
would, indeed, to a certain degree, improve the language of
bills brought before us, and prevent the' introduction of in-

consistent clauses when those bills were abont.to pass, and .so
far they would be useful; but for the great objects which
the right hon. and learned gentleinati has iii view their utility
would, I conceive, be very little. What.' should be glad to
see, and what we have,wanted for many years, is a depart-
ment, -with an officer at the head of, it who should make this
particular sort of reform his business, 'Who should obtain from
Government certain days to bring for Ward measures; and
sufficient time for their discussion, instead of, having them
brought on at, the end of the session, and who should call the
serious attention of -Parliament to those measures. There
are instances- without end of cases in which such an officer
would have been useful. It is a great many years ago since
Ibearcl the late hishop of Lincoln—a very learned awl able
man—call the attention of that Most °Anent judge, Lord
Stowell, in the other house, to the defects in our law with
respect to the diecipline• of the Clergy.., He mentioned a case
in which a clergyman had been guilty of gross and notorious
immorality, to the scandal of his neighbourhood, and he had
been obliged to institute proceedings,' which had then (ix-
tendelover 'four or five years, awl .had cos: hiin 3,0301. or
4,0001., bathed notarrived at a satisfactory conclusion. Here
was a gross defect in the law which &d not apparently re
quire any great. effort-of legislatien•, to • reach it, bat it had
never been corrected to this day. Gross cases of immorality
still occur; Psheps are still 61)11;0(1'0 institute proceedings
at great expanse and loss of time to themselves, and I do not
know that the facility of legislation upon the subject will be
increased by its halting been taken into the especial care of
lateictinvocation. It appears to me that if we 'dottld get rid
of the ecclesiastical notion, that , ecclesiastics .alone are fit to
judge 'ef:snelt subjects, a prosecutor or' attorney-general of
the Church might be appointed, who-might bring cases of thi:
kind before a tribunal which might . speedily decide them,
and the Church would then get rid of the scandal of having
such notoriously unfit ministers, nnrt the -bishops would be
relieved of an unfair claim upon them. :There are othee in-
stances of the same kind. Many yaars,agoi at, the end of a
session, .I took charge of a bill for tho-tforin of the ecclesi-
astical courts. 'Sir R. Peel, who was then in office, was
about to commit that massacre 'of bills_ which takes place-
every year, and I was obliged to give it up; and the•
gees-
tion of the reform of the ecclesiastical 'courts is still waiting
1,,r the attention of Parliament. (gear, *heir.) Do not
tell me that the laW officers or the• Crown can prevent these
things ; With their wilelic duties and their private practice
they haVe already a great deal too much on their bands. The
.right hots. gentleman who spot:el-1A se 'fined to think that
even a new!Minister of Justice would hardly have sufficient
, time for the important duties that -would- be thrown upon
him ; but if a Minister, with no other bhsincss to occupy him,
would find the ,task too much, how could it be undertaken
by the Lord Chancellor or the law' Officers of the Crown ?
, Many cases must occur to hon, gentlemen in which measures
involving no party questions have been delayed for•years and
years_ in that way through this lieuse, When I introduced the
Charitable Trusts Bill, I Mentioned that the question had been
under consideration about .30 years ; the qUestion of County
Courts was under: consideration about 25 years ; yet I find
that atthough„tho twalouses of Parliament are employed
almost every year upon those subjects; their task is not yet
completed.. This house; intact, appears, to be taking a course
the reverse of that'which has beentaken with regard to the
steam-engine. When the steam•engine was first invented much
of ite'power was wasted, a great dealrof the steam produced
being of very little use ;' but Witt arid other 'inventors con-
trived in-time-that nearly all the power ge.uerated should be
applied`to the purpose for which it wiaS intended, and very
little waste now takds place. But Parliament, 50 years ago, got
through whatever business it had to do; whereas now, although
lron, air, very often sitintliat chair from 12 to 4 o'clock in the
day, and then, from 6in the evening 'till 2in the morning,
many bills have to be given up at the end of every session, and
all the power created, by i.ueh, Protracted sittings does not
contribute to the effect of useful' and wholesome legislation.
I am perfectly ready to wait, at the iequest of the Govern-
ment, until new propositions, recommended by learned
authorities, shall be •placed before the houee ; but I have
already made up my mind upon thiEt-oint—that of the two
propositions of the right hollow:tire and learned gentleman
opposite, on the one hand, and of appointing a certain num-
iser!of clerks to mend the details of bills before they are passed,
on the other hand— the proposition of the right hon. and
learned gentleman is the most philosophical, the most prac-
tical, and the most conducive to that'improvement in our le-
gislation which is One of the great objects to whichPaadiament
ought to direct its attention.

Mr. DRUMMOND could see no poSsible objection to the re-
solution, the usefulness of Which he thought was self-evident.
Mr: MALINS thought that
.instead of regretting that so
little had been done, they should rather, take credit to them-
selves that they bad accomplished so much. With regard to
the proposition of appointing a minister of justice, he thought
thatymcka functionary: being removed from the practice of
profession would soon loco the qualifications necessary to the
efficient performance of his duties, and would overlook those
defects in the 'law which every-clay prictico brought under
the eye of the ;law officers of the Crown 4nd barristers prac-
tising icr the -courts.. ' - •

•
Mr. EWART believed that,-whatever the present decision of
•the house, the end would be the appointment of a minister of
justice. lie called attention to the advantage which had re.
suited from the Presence of a Minister of poor laws in that
'house,aad expressed his 'conviction that equal benefit would
follow from the appointment of a minister of justice and a
minister of education. The hon. .gentleinati then referred to
several of the valuable improvements whicli had been made of
late years in the technical process. of legislation, and urged
•that.still greater advantages might be. obtained by the creation
of a Minister ofjustice;Which Would'supply the motive power
of law reform, %instead of• merely perfecting the legislative
machinery. •

Mr. WILKINSON had every disposition to take the word
of the Government that they 'would, premise something, and
did not •advise the- right hon. and learned gentleman, there-
fore, to persevere in his motion; but if the motion were per-
seyerad in, he should feel bound to vote for it. If the scheme
which the ChanceßM- of the Duchy of Lancaster had hinted
at was to involve.thc creation of a department or ministry of
justice, there could be no harm in-, such a resolution as this
having boon passed ; and if not h.o thought It would fall short
of what was wanted. Not only in framing new laws, but in
the.repoplpf .obsoieo. statutes, the house required such au
official adviser, lie would ment!on as au instance, that there
was a statute of George a hundred and twenty years old,
wilich imposed a penalty of 50D1. upon every man who should
sell stock which he had not got in his own name. Now, if
that obsolete statute Were acted upon, it would interfere most

seriously with all. the operations of the money market. It
would have this effect, that every man on the Stock Exchange
would be asked, at. once, -whether. he, was engaged in any
• .

other business ; becgUse• then, since be must sell no stock
which did not sta,nd.in his own name, all his. dealings would
be Unhinged in ease' of his 'failing in business, and therefore
he couht not be admitted. This was an example of the ano-
•nialies and inconsisteneas -which; were allowed to remain on
the statute book, and which reAuired'for their remoVal the
-assistance of such a departinebt'aS was proposed.,
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, there can be no doubt that this
subject is-one of the deepest importance, and one fully de-
Servling the afttentiva eonsideration of the house. At the s.Vme
time, however plausible the proposition may bo of the'ap-
pointment of a minister of justice, I think that many of
those who have adopted the notion have perhaps not made
,to.thanselves a sufficiently 'clear idea of the funetiOns which
such a minister would have to perforth.; and that upon
more minutely going. into it they might find greater diffi- 1
ealties than at first sight present themselves to view. I
do not, however, , mean to, say that such an appointment
may not possibly be advisable, 'but I think it is one that
ought to be. Well considered before the house comes to a
resolution, affirming positively nod at once that such an
°Mee should be :created. Now thel hon. 'and learned gen-
tleman who spoke last on the other •Sicle (Mr. Malins) hag,
I think, adverted to the difficulties which' would ari,e 'in re,-
gord to some of the functions proposed to be assigned to that
office. I apprehend , the, ebjelts' in view 11,1*.) times. 034
'would be to direct the legislation of this lions°, while another
Would be to originate measures, and the third would be to
endeavour to reform and improve the existing mode of legis
lation. Now, in regard to the „firet two, it is very easy to
sly that a minister of justice Would prevent Parliament from
falling intworrors in measures 'that pass through the two ,
honses of Parliament. We have heard the story, AV:11C:1 is not
*r of
a' very !new one, about" the penalty Of transportation, half
going one way,.and.balf the other. NO doubt there are many
cases, in which billsipass into law, contAiuing errors, either
conflicting to Other existing statutes, or errors by which they
d"naombzn not accomplish the purposein
view; but I .think lunch
may be entertainel whether the appointra nit of a
peciall
the Government, Whose duty it might be. more,
eS y to attend to those' matters, would be sufficient Co
prevent althge.her the occurrence of such mistakes. But it

is impossible that this house and the other house of Parlia-
ment should be called upon to abdicate their functions, and
individual members would not yield their own opinions im-
plicitly at the dictum of the officer in question. That member
of the Government might say—" I think that such a proposal
a bad one; I think it liable to this objection or to that ob-
jection if the words proposed are inscribed in the bill ;' but
individual members would persevere in retnining their own
opinion, and the house would verb often back them, and so
the minister of justice might find himself, as other members
oC the _Government sometimes do, left in a minority if a di-
viSion should take place upon the 'question. Therefore you
could not combnee the absolute power of a member of the
Government to direct legislation in what he might think the
proper course, with the inherent Constitution of a delibera-
tive assembly like this. . Certainly there might be some
weight attached to the recommendations and the objections
of such' a public officer; that would depend upon the legal
attainments and professional knowledge of the individual who
might happen to ha.vo. been selected for the.offiee. . Now, my
noble friend behind me has quoted the difficulties which have
been experienced, and the length of time which has elapsed,
in passing a great variety of important Public measures ; but
if he will allow me to say it, I think that those difficulties and
delays depend not upon the abseneP of such a member of the
Government as that whose-appointment is •now under consi-
deration, but upon the resistance in Parliament arising from
the variety of opinions, the resistance which always is opposed
to the progress of any great system of improvement in your
laws; and that resistance Will always be found, let who may
be the officer of the Government by whom such measures are
proposed. Suggestions for the amendment of the law, and va-
rious matters of that sort, Can only be carried through by a
conjunction of the majority of the two houses of Parliament,
and that conjunction may certainly be hastened by the argu-
ments urged by a member of the Government; but the de-
lays which had been alluded to do not arise from the difficulty
or impossibility of framing proper bills, but from the diffi-
culty of persuading Parliament- to adopt those bills, when
prOperly framed and submitted to their judgmont ; therefore,
so far as the functions of a minister of justice could consist in
assisting and directing this and the other house of Parliament
in the act of new legislation, I think that somewhat of an ex-
aggerated view has been taken of the advantage which would
arise from the creation of such an office, though I do' not
mean to say that there might not sometimes bo conveniences
resulting from it. Now, in regard to the other point, viz.,
the reform of the existing mode of legislation, I think that
gentlemen have rather lost sight of what has been done when
they represent that no considerable improvements have b en
made in the direction of legal rel'orm. It is, perhaps, rather.
a good tendency of the human mind to undervalue what has
been done, and to fix attention mainly upon that which-
remains to be done ; and it is not a tendency that "one
would feel at all disposed in the abstract to quarrel
with ; but nevertheless, when we are endeavouring to fix is
our own minds the real st,te of things, we must not forget
that-great progress has been made elate years in the ImprOve-
ment of the law in its various branches, although that is rather
a reason for going rn, and by no means a reason for objecting,
or opposing any obstacle' to measures of great and further im-
provement to be Made ! Now, my right lion. friend the Chan-
cellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has told the house that the
Statute Law Commission are at the • present moment engaged
in considering propositions that are to be submitted for adop-
tion. My hon. friend who spoke last behind me (Nfr. Ewart)
said that it is a question whether-the proposal which is to be
made is a proposition for continuous or 'merely for a tempo-
rary—improvement.. I believe tai it very • question is under
consideration, and therefore I -think -that, considering that
thos ) eminent men who have been appointed to the task have
at the present moment under their consideration proposals
which miy eventually go farto meet the views of the right
hon. gentleman opposite,' and of the house at large, I think
that tight hon. gentleman would do well to adopt the sugges-
tion of my right hon, friend, that is to say to waive for the
present asking the House of Commons to agree to the resolu-
tion which he has proposed, reserving to himself, later in the
session, if he should find that the result of the labours of the
commission have not been such as the house feels entitled to
, expect; are not calculated to lead to any sufficientlysatisfactory
result, the right to renew his proposition either in its present
shape or in any other shape that may appear to him to be better
calculated to lead to a practical result. (Cheers.) I can only
assure him and the house that her Majesty's Government are
deeply sensible of the extreme importance of this matter, and
that they, so far from wishing to throwany obstacles in the way
of the improvement of the law, feel that it is undoubtedly
one of those matters which it is the duty of the Government
to pay the greatest and most earnest attention to. I should
hope, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman will not press
his resolution on the house,:at the- present moment, but wait
and see what shall be the result of those deliberations in which
the S. t ante Law Commissioners are at the present moment
engaged,
Mr. M'MAHON was not satisfied with the working of the
statute commission, which had cost the country upwards of
10),000.t. and no beneficial results had proceeded from it. He
thought that great benefit would result from the appointment
of a minister of public justice, for he could do the same duty
that the chairman of committees did for private bills, and he
hoped the motion would be persevered in.
Mr. CRAUFURD urged Mr. Napier not to press the house
to a division on his motion, but to wait to see what the Go-
vernment intended to do. ,
Mr. ROUNDELL PALMER contended that they could not
appoint a minister ofjustice without altogether disturbing the
present functions of the Lord Chancellor and the Attorney-
General. It would be a further inconvenience that such an
officer must go in and out with the Ministry, so that they
would not get any eminent lawyer to give up his practice by
taking such an office, unless they awarded him a large salary
and a large retiring allowance.
Mr. NAPIER, replied, offering to amend his resolution by
omitting the words, " securing the skilful preparation of
bills," and substituting generally, " with a view to promote
the better amendment of the laws of the United Kingdom."
Sir G. GREY could not agree to the resolution in that
form, but offered to accept it If the right' hon. gentleman
would omit the words, " the creation of a department of public
justice," and allow the resolution to stand thus:—" That in
the opinion of the house provision should be made with a view
to secure the skilful structure and preparation of Parliamen-
tary bills, and promote the progressive amendment of the
laws of the United Kingdom."
Mr. NAPIER had no objection to consent to that altera-
tion. (A laugh and cheers.)
The resolution was then put, and passed nun. con.
HAR'BOUff OF REFUGE AT CARDIGAN.
Mr. L. DAVIES rose to move for a select committee to

quire into the advisability of constructiqa harbour of refuge
and defence in Cardigtn-bay, and whether it may not be ad-
vantageous also to employ convict labour in the said works ?
The hon. gentleman began by urging,the groat importance of
the snbject in reference both to the preservation of humaulife
and property, and the defence of the country from foreign in-
vasion. He then proceeded to bring forward a number of facts,
which could be authenticated, and on which he founded his
motion, simply for inquiry into the matter. He stated that the
distance between St. David's-head and Holyhead was 92 nau-
tical miles, and along that whole line of coast there.was not
a single point in which a ship could obtain shelter, an evil so
enormous that all the shipping going up St. George's Chan- .
nel were obliged to be insured at an advance of 3:3 per cent.
ou the premiums, although he admitted that a part of that
large per tentage of insurance had reference to some difficul-
ties of navigation of the Mersey. Looking to the shipping
tonnage that went up and,down that coast, which was in so
defenceless a state, ho thought that he had only given some
few statistics to induce the house to grant the committee he
sought. It might be supposod that to mention the shipping
of Cardigan as compared with that of the rest of the kingdom
it would appear very small ; but still there was no less than
210 ships using that bay in the year, with a tonnage of
11,891 ; while of strange ships passing by it there was an
average of 710 vessels, with a tonnage of 39,000. The ship-
ping going up and down the Channel was estionateel to con-
voy property to the value of 20,000,0001. a year, with a
tonnage of 11,000,000. , The honourable gentleman then
stated the number of vessels lost near Cardigan Bay lost
year, giving their names and the number of lives lost in
each, and stated the amount of tonnage known to be lost
amounted to 12,000. He also stated the number lost or
injured off Fishg,nard Bay, and mentioned that in one day in
October last no less than 22 vessels were wrecked or damaged.
He next read a letter from a, person whom he said was an
authority, who stated that if a harbour of refuge was esta-
blished on that coast none of the casualties which had been
described would have occurred, and that the cost of its con-
struction need not be more than 60,0"e01. or 80,00 0/. All ho
asked for was inquiry, in order to see if some inexpensive
structure might not be erected, with a view to the saving
such a sacrifice of life and property. The hon. gentleman
then treated the subject with reference to the question of
defence against foreign invasion, and referred to the opinion
of the late Duke of Wellington with regard to the.defenceleks
condition of this country. •He also entered into a historical
review of the proposed inveoian of this country by Napoleon
in 1797. The hon. gentleman then quoted the celebrated de-
claration of the late Duko of Wellington, in his letter to Sir
John Burgoyne, as to the vulnerability of the south coast,
and urged the importance of attending to our coast defences
generally. He should be glad to see ticket-of-leave convicts
employed in useful works of this description. In Pcntonville
there were 412 prisoners ; the average cost was 291. 6s. NI,
and the average earnings a trifle over 5/. In Parkhurst, where
there were 514 prisoners,-the less was still greater, and tho
case was mooch the sane in Millbank. In- Portland, where
there were 1,400 prisoners employed on productive labour,
their earnings exceeded their cost, and the ease was the same
at Portsmouth. He hoped the noble lord at the head of the
Goiernment would grant this committee; and if it were fooled
that the project was practicable that it might be carried out..
For the sake of humanity, some immediate attempt ought t
be made to step the present frightful loss of life from shipwreck,
as well as to lessen the dangers of invasion. The hon. gen-
tleman then concluded by moving for a select committee.
' The motion being seconded,
Sir C. WOOD said he would first dispose of those por-
tions of the motion which load no reference to the proposed
object of the committee. Referenpe had been made to the
threatened invasion of Bonaparte, but he did not see that any
defensive works in Cardigan Bey would have been of much
service in such a case. It was true that a descent was made on
the Welch coast, some 50 or 60 years ago, but ho believed,
such was the bravery of the inhabitants, that the invaders
were put to flight by a bevy of-Welefirwomen in red petticoats.
There :already existed a large Government dockyard at Pem-
broke, which must be fortified, and it was not necessary to
have another fortified place so-near. As to the proposed em-
ployment of convicts, ho had to state, that a very large build-
ing h rcl been erected at Chatharea where they would undertake
to employ as many convicts as were likely to be available for
several years to come. On neither of these grcundi was a her-
blur of refuge necessary. to be formed in Cardigan Bay. It
should also be remembered that since 1846, a harbour of refuge
lead been established in St. 'George'S Channel. The attention of
the Government had been calleacto the subject; and they de-
cided that Holyhe od.was the most convenient place en the coast
of Wales. A harbour of refuge had been formed there, and no
less than 3,000 vessels load taken refuge in it last year. On
this subject he had consulted the Hydrographer of the Admi-
ralty, and his opinion was that it was not only unadvisable to
do this, but that it would b.) a positive injury to the trade of
the Channel ; for no mariner who knew his business would go
into Cardigan 13ay if he could help it. The Trinity House had
talen.great pains to light that portion of the Welch coast, so
that vessels might be able to avoid that bay. Lights had been
specially placed there to keep vessels clear away from that
spot. It was true that the distance from Milford haven to Ho-
lyhead was about 100 mile 3; but that was no great distance
for vessel; with a good harbour on each side. With the, de-
opinion of tb,e Hydrographer to the Admiralty that it
would be daugerons to construct a harbour of refuge in
q'rdigan'PAY, by enticing vessels there instead of keeping
on the other side of the Cioann 1, ho Was' not disposed
to accede to the motion. He thought it would be a mere
wasteofpablic money to construct a harbour of refuge either
in Cardigan Bay or anywherdnear it. Oa that ground be
should resist the motion.'
Mr. L. DAVIES. said that if anything would impress him
with the conviction that a naval luau ought to be at the head
of the Admiralty, it was at the spzeeh of the right hon. bort.
To talk of Milford-haven being a point of refuge after round.
ing St: David's [lead betrayed unparallelled ignorance. One
of the lights referred to by the right hon. best. -us in such
a position that it could not be seen above 5 days in the year.
it was too much that the wishes of the inhabitants of the
district shonld be controlle.l by the opinion:of a single
eal. Let the house ho warned against relying on this by
what load. occurred, iu the late Crimean campaign. He felt
Joanna to prese hie motion to a division, even.if .he went out
alone.

Mr. WYNN said k has applied to the Trinity-house for

leave to erect a sea-mark and place a light ship-on St. Pat-
rick's Causeway—a reef in Cardigan Bay, which was ex-
tremely dangerous-to shipping. A- promise was given, but
nothing whatever had been done.
Mr. PHILLIPS, though he shared in the anxiety of his
hon. friend for the establishment of a harbour of refuge in
Cardigan Bay, recommended him not to press for the appoint-
ment of a eommittee in the face of the unfavourable opinion
which they had just heard from the right hon. gentleman.
The house
Ayes
Noes

44
118-74

The motion was thus lost.
THE IRISH MAILS

. .
Mr. M'CANN moved for a return, for the quarter end-
ing the. 31st day of December, 1355, of. the number of let-
ters received in Dublin by the mail which leaves Euston
Station at, five o'clock P.m.., and of the number of those letters
which were forwarded by the morning mails from Dublin
to the provinces ; and similar return of the letters received
by the mails which leave Easton Station at 45 minutes past
8 p.m.; and of those forwarded by the nig:it mails from
Dublin.
Mr. WILSON would have no objection to the return were
it not that the Post-officp accounts did not contain any mate-
riats:for main g it.
Colonel DUNNE hopk that the Government would as-
sent to the re-appointment of the committee on the Irish
mails.
The motion was then withdrawn.
"TIM CURRENCY.

Mr. MUNTZ said that as he understood the Government
intended t 3 oppose the motion of which he had given notice
on ties subjedt, hewould not bring it on at that hour of the
night (a, quarter to 11). ile would bring it on again on Tues-
day, the 19th inst.

ADULTERATION OF FOOD, &c.
Mr. SCFIOLEFIELD moved for the re-appointment of
the committee on the adulteration of food, drink, and drugs.
—Agreed to.
CONTRACTORS DISQUALIFICATION RE 310 V AL.
Mr. T. MITCHELL Moved for leave to bring in a bill to
repeal the act 22 'Geo. 111., di qualifying contractors from
being elected to, or meeting and voting as members of the
House of Commons. The act in 'question was of such a
sweepiig character that hon. gentlemen were continually
being involVed, quite unawares; in its meshes. He might
refer to several instances which had occurred within a 'very
short period. Amongst others there was that of Sir S. M.
Peto, who hart been permanently disqualified from sitting in
the present Parliament by simply undertaking what was
really an act of kindness to her Majesty's Government. A
yet stronger; case was that sof Btrou Rothschild last year ;
and without pretending to be a lawyer, he must confess he
could not see the distinction which had been drawn by the
committee appointed by the house to sit upon the matter,
between a contract to supply a small quantity df goods and
a contract to' supply sixteen millions of money. He always
thought that the constitutional check upon malversat:oh
was to be sought fin• in the responsibility of Ministers,
and not in bills ,of pains and penalties. Besides, the
act was r.sally quite useless to prevent that against
which it' ha -1 been aimed, for it was perfectly noto-
rious that it could be evaded with the most perfect
ease. Every Government was most ready to transfer
contracts to those members of firms who were not seeking
to enter parliament; and that equally with respect to gentle-.
mea who were their political opponents, as with those who
were inclined to give theM their support. On the part of the
mercantile community he must repudiate all desire to enter
into collusive bargains with the members of the Government.
In the Admiralty all large contracts were put up by adver-
tisement for public competition, and he supposed the same
rule was adhered to in the other departments. The hon. gen-
tleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had no
elojeetiea to the motion of his hon. frimid. The repeal he pro-
posed to effect would have a double operation. First, it
would remove all chifibt as to the liability of loan contractors
under the Contractors Act. That question came before the
committee which sat last session in the case of Baron Roths-
child. The greatest discrepancy of opinion existed amongst
the members of the committee upon the interpretation of the
act with regard to these contractors, but the majority decided
that they did not come under the operation. He should not
venture to express an opinion on the legal question, but ho
had no doubt that thi committee decidedly rightly in the
view of expediency. There was a great difference between
loan contractors in this respect, that in the case of loan con-
tracts, the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the one hand and
the parties who Made the tender for the loan on the other
hand, were merely negotiators and not principals—the'one
representing the Government and the others the subscribers
to the loan. The agreement made by them was merely a pro-
visional one, which required the confirmation of the House of
Commons, and,•therefordthe act tvhich imposed penalties on
persons contracting with the Commissioner 'of the Treasury
could not be held to apply to agreements for loans. The case
was different where par ties entered into other contracts—as the
supply of coals, for instance, to the Admiral Board or to the
Commissioners of the Treasury. If anyreasonable doubt existed
as to the exemption of loan contractors, he agreed with his bon.
friend that that doubt should be removed, and that the Go-
vernment ought to support a bill having that object. With
regard to other contracts, there was some doubt; and whilst
reserving to himself the opinion he might feria as to that por-
tion of the bill, he should not object to its introduction.
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMOitEstid that be was unable to under-
stand the ground ofthe'deeision of the committee, because
any person who• read-the debateS when the Loan Contractors'
Act was passed, could not 'fail to see that it was especially
directed against nit very class of contractors which the com-
mittee by their decision.declared to be exempt from its ope-
ration. As to the other part of the bill, ho thought the house
should consider well before acceding to them.
The SO :_ICITOR,GENERAL said that if his hon. and
learned friend who had just spoken with so much confidence
studied the question' ou which he spoke, he would see that
he was in error in point of fact, for Baron Rothschild had en-
tered into no contract at all. If his hon. and learned friend
had road the Loan Act, which, with great deference to him,
he begged leave to say ho had not—(laughter, and " Yes I
have," from Mr. Phillimore)—he would Clad that it was ex-
pressly framed in such a manner as to operate with regard to
the subject matter of the act as a repeal of the Contract Act,
and therefore if the persons negotiating a loan had enter ad
into a contract,, bu,t_ which they could not perfect till the
persons competent to do so concluded the contract, till in fact
a loan act was passed, that subsequent loan act was so worded
as to operate as a repeal-of the contract act, and exempted
the parties from coming under the penalties imposed by that
act. With regard to loan contractors, therefore, the present
bill was unnecessary, and with regard to the other parts of the
bill he sari great danger from them on public grounds..
Mr. PHILLIMORE said that he confined his observations
to the object whiclithe,framcrs of the Contractors' Act had in
view. He said nothing about the Loau Act.
The house then divided--
For the introduction of the bill
Against
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
QUALIFICATION OF JUSTICES OF THE PEACE.
Mr. COLVILLE moved for leave to bring is a 'bill to
amend the .11,ws relatiug'to the qualification ofjustices of the
peace. Leave was given. •

RETURNS ORDERED.
IRISH POOR Lew,—On the motion of Mr. HORSMAN.—Re.
turns showing thetotal number of paupers (in-door and out.
door) in receipt of relief on the first Saturday of January,
1855, and the first Saturday of January, 1856, in the unions
of Ireland ; specifying the increase or decrease in the latter,
as compared with the former period. Of the total number
of paupers in receipt of relief in the workhouse in each pro-
vince in Ireland, at the elese of the first week (ending Satur-
day) of January, 1849, 1850, 1851, 1852, 1853, 1854, 1855,
and 1856, die.
FEES ox:BanoxErcrxs, &e.—On the motion of Mr. GUINNESS,
Address for return of all:fees chargeable upon baronetcies,
Order of the Bath, or other honourable distinctions confer-
red by her Majesty in reward of distinguished services, and
of any expenses incident to such creations and distinctions.
BANK NOTES.—On' the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, Copies of the cJrrespondence between the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer And the Governor and Deputy-Go-
vernor of the Batik of England, on the subject of issuing ad-
ditional Bank notes within the limit of the act 7 and S Viet.,
c. 32; and of the order in Council authorising the issue in
question.

CHARITABLE USES BILL.
This bill was readit socoa,l time.
SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES.
Mr. FITZROY brought up the report of the committee of
supply on the navy estimates.
JOINT-STOCK BANKS (SCOTLAND) BILL. .

On the order of the day for the second reading of the biil,
In reply to Mr. BLACKBURN;
Mr. WILSON stated it was not'a continuance of any exist-
ng act; but almost an exact copy of a bill which had passed
~he house last session. .;
The house then adjourned at 20 minutes to 12.

Naval and Military Intelligence.

Portsnionth garrison presents jest now the appearance
of a town "beleaguered from the sea and the garrison pre-
paring busily for its defence. A large fleet of ships and
gunboats is at anchor in the roadstead off the town,
and new batteries and' quarters for soldiers are being
constructed rapidly within the walls of the fortress. At
the top of the town a large range of dwelliog-houses
and the theatre, have. been pulled down to create more
room for military acceinmodation, while at the bottom
a heavy battery of 16' 68-pounder pivot guns is in
course of completion, having taken the place .of the
old platform of 6-pounder saluting guns. In the rear
of these has been erected a large shell maeazine,
flanked by a high earth mound to protect it .from the
shot of an enemy seaward; new erubrasures for heavy
32-pounders have been cut in the curtain of the ram-
parts at various points commanding Southsea, where
a mud fort has been built near the old stone fortress,
Southsea Castle, to strengthen that defence. A new
double draWbridge is in'course of erection in lice of the
old single one at St. JaMes-gate "Point," where a bat-
tery 'and Royal Artillery quarters in, rear have for some
time been built to protect the mouth of the harbour on
tie right of the entrance. The Government are also
endeavouring to negotiate for a large extent of house
p.operty in Green-row and the rear for further enlarg-
ing the barrack accommodation, and this to the extent
(says military. rumour) of 30,000 men ! If so, Ports-
mouth and its. adjacent dependencies alust become al-
most exclusively A citadel.
The new strain-gun and despatch-boat Lapwing, 4,
was put in eatnniiasion on Monday by Commander
Thomas Saurnarez, and the new class 6-gun screw
despatch boat Pioneer was put in commission yesterday
by Commander Mends. Her Majesty's ship 131enaeiru,
60, captain 'W. H. Iztall, was undocked at Portsmouth
yeeerday after refit.
Sh has
b.reelewin.baaPPwePai,isniotnn.3,dat4s!
chargeliisetraonfhtlyeegseitnnygeiilord'eess.e) at t h' I gun-vessel
-13;:s
Ifer Ata jelt y's.s.erew steam-
off
alli p A
from; the:Mediteeranean,, was plfyieinrsb,uCt:m.r t.
the Talbot,
lbof,
yesterdayor'
afternoon, and, in -cense
Admiral Sir William Parker,quenee porfoocr:.s. ddeedresfrup Channel
steatning
wasll loieffsperieywinos:"ltteta,zonn t;laonnspianyrtatßulaocokn-,
flitaatintobn,
edCN.
Crimea,
fur the eastward.
The _hea steam transport Cumberland, Capt.
Rivers,P3Nro( er
.15.1., from Woolwich, for the Crimea, put
1010 • Plymouth Sound, wind-bound, on Monday.
Aisi4ant Adjutant-General Yorke, commanding the
Royal
Sappers and Miner:, with his ofßeied depertmena,
• I Woolwich •
having been eetasnec a tuntil the present mo-
ment ,•4 jonsevenee of en insufficiency of room for their
accommodation at Chatham, yesterday removed thanee.
C.spt. Tilley's-574 company is now the ouly portion of
that corps stationed. at Woolwich.
The gun-boat :Forward, 2, Lieutenant Commander
Nelson, has arrived off Woolwich Arserat from Deptford,
to receive her ameinnition, ‘Sec„ preparatory to joining
the squadron.
The pontoon mortar raft has returned to Woolivich

from Shoeburyness, having gone through the second
series of experiments ~with Colonel Chalmers' 10 inch
hoWitzer. gun. Since the pontoon metal' has been
strengthened all the experiments have turned out satis-
factorily, consequently the raft has been pronounced in
p-m.fect service condition.
A curious experiment was on Monday tried in the
Arsenal marshes at Woolwich with anew description of
shell, being the invention of a Mr. Stevens. A piece of
wood fitting the bore of the gun was attached to a shell,
a?c.lrding to the inventor's contrivance, to accelerate its
flight, which ho 'expected would be a very long one.
Several of the shells Were then fired from a 6 pounder
gun, and in each instance the wood was shattered in
pieces, and the shell rolled to a distance of about 200
yar 1,. In fat, the experiment completely fade.
The following promotions and appointments were
made yolterday at the Admiralty

Tht;Rev.. W. W. Campbell, Chaplain to the Dragon
J. G. Barnes, Paymaster to the Archer ; A. Rowe, C.
W. Harris, T. .T. Loy, T. C. H. Shears, H. Gilpin, A,
Ovey, A. T. M. Robert-,, and B. Lnxmore, Assistant.
Payinastrn, promoted to the rank of Paymasters.

' JOINT-S l'Or2K BANKS.
Dividend i Amount
Name of Company, per I of Paid. Price.
- Annum. ! Share.
-----
X s. d. ' X ti. d.
Australasia........... 20/. per cent. 40 0 0 all . 92%
British North American 61. per cent..; .50 0 0 PO 66
ConnnerciAl of London. lol.per cent. )100 0 0 20 0 0 -
Colonial ... ••••• • • - - 151. per cont. 1100 0 0 25 0 0 -
lonian.- . .......... 6/. per cent. )25 0 0 25 0 0 -
Lend . Gila:, Bk. of Aus. - 20 5 0 all 0 17
London and County • . 101. per cent. 50 0 3 20 0 0 -
Loner' 45d Westminstr, I4d. percent. 100 0 0 20 0 0 46M
London •Joint• Stock .• • 121. per cent. 50 0 0 10 0 0 31N
Frovinclal of Ireland.. 81. per cent. 100 0 0 25 0 0 52
New._ , ..... 81:per cent. 10 0 0 Ditto, all -
Nationr.l of Ireland.... 1 61. per cent. ,50 0 0 22 10 0 -
Nat. Provincial of Eng. 1 81. per cent. 100 0 0 35 0 0 73%
/mac, New
........i 87. per cant. 20 0 0 13 0 0 -
Orienttd Ranh Corpora. 18c p. ct.&bs. 25 0' 0 all 40
South Australia • . .... l4? p.a.& bs. 25 0 0 ~, 30
Union of Australia.. • • !301. per cent. 25 0 0 „ 71% %
Ditto .............. ,31!. per cent. - 210 0 -
Union of London ..... 20% per tent. 50 0 0 10 0 0 if;
Union of Madrid ... - I - 40 0 0 all -
CANALS.
I . •
Name.? of F. Dividend ',rice Names of ~.,.,,j Dividend
I
Companies. 5 ca per Companies.
Fi, Annum. - 4 Annum.perFrier!.
cr)
~ X _ _ -
Ashin &Oldh 03 7/, r. ct. 145 Nfacclesfield.lloo 21. les. bl
Barnsiny.... 'l6O, - , - Neath ...... I too 161. -
firknii&A.brg 150' 41. I - Oxford.. •• •• 100 - -
Birmingham 140,; 41. 9114 Peak Forest. 78, 51. Os. 76
Coventry....llooi 257. - Item t's •• • • 30; 1/ 14%
Derby ••• .. 'lOO 67. 15s. 84 Rochdale.... 85' 11. 10s. 76
Elinnre&Clis 60 211 p. ct. - Soinrset Coal 140 - -
OrandJunclii 100 3,. pr. ct. 26 Do. Lk FdSt 12 - -
Do., 6 or.Ct.l 10 61. pr. ct. 11% Stfird &Wore 'l4O, 281. 420
Grand ,tirrey' 1011 41. - tithrewsbary.. 125 -
Grand Ynion 100' 17.05. - ~F,tostrbrldge.. ,45 121. 290
Kent & Ayn 39' 6e. Od. 6% Severn and] 26 21. .. Lancaster , ..., 1001. - - Wye Bail.
Leeds &L'vrp' 100! 25/. 470 Warwick &7 5
2/. 25
Leicester.... 1001 5/. 493 firming. 100
Leicstr &Ntla 83! - :,- Warwick &I
21. 10
LoughLorogh:l42' . 701. 550 Napton.. / 100
Moninouthsh 100' - - Worcstr & i
I 78 21. 21 '
Alntgmerysh 100' - - Eirming.
Meltn3.lwbry 100; - - Wilts & Brks -10 s. Od. -

. INSURANCE COMPANIES.
Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of I Paid. Price.
Annum. Share.
.£ s. d. 'Z
s. d.
Albion .... •• •... •..• 31. 10s. 500 0 0 50 0 0 83
Alliance E:i:. ar.e. For. 71. 14s. lid. bs. 100 0 0 11 0 0 -
Ditto 51artne ....... 01. p.c.& bs. 100 0 0 25 0 0 40•74
Anchor .............. 6 per cent. 5 0 1 0 0 -
Atlas • 155.0 d. 50, 0 J 515 0 17%
Argue Life ..........• 4t.per cent. 100 0 0 25 0 0 -
rlritish Commercial .. 71. 10s. 50 0 0 50 0 6.74
GlericLaled.& Gen. Life spr et. &bs. 10/ 0 0 10 0 0 214,E
County - ... ........ 4/. 100 0 0 10 0 0 120
Crown ...... • ... • ... 17s. Od 50 0 0 50 0 181 x,
50 0 0•5 0 0 -
Eagle .. - _ ••53.
Equity and Law...... 4% per cont. 100 0 0 5 0 0 5%
European Life l/. 20 0 0 ell 18%
General ........ _
~ 5%
Globe ••••• •• .., 8/. per cent. Stock. 04%
Guardian ............ 5/. per cent. 1100 0 0 47 5 0 ,l
511,1,
Imperial Fire......... 12/. per cent, 500 0 0 50 0 0 340
Imperi:.l Life
Indemnity Marino ...• 11.3 i k 3/. 100 0 0 20 0 0 77
Law Fire ....... •.. • • 2s. & 2s. bs. 100 0 0 210 0 -
Law Lite............. - 100 0 . 10 0 '0 61
Legal and General Life - 50 0 0 2 0 0 11%
London
25 0 0 12 10 0 2.4,
London Ship ... 10s. & bs. 25 0 0 12 10 0 -
Marinc......... •. •• - • 181. per share 100 0 0 28 0 0 40
Mcd. Frvlid&'Gcn. Life 4% 7, per et. 50 0 0 2 0 0 31A
Minerva .• .....• .. sp. et. & be. 20 0 0 2 0 0 6
Monarch ..•.. -.• .-.-; -•- 5 0 0 1 0 0 -
National Loan Fund.. 51. per cent. 20 0.0 210 0 -
Palladlititnife;`,..
Pelican - -.- 45,,,i
Phautix - - - 178
•
PrOCCBF*Iai Life...... 5/. per cent. 5 0 010 0
Pro r.n vidt Life ......-•-• 11. ss. & bs. 100
0 0 10 0 ii 3:14
Rock Life.. ...: _ 8
53 0 010 0 ,! .... , 7s. all 228
Royal Exchatige........ led. per cent. Stock.
Sun Fire •• • •• 61. 10s. -- 11 248
0 43i
Ditto Life •.... , 11. 14s•
--11 -
United ;;:ing•dom .. •• 41.11" t. cent.
20 0 0 4 -
4 1100 0 0 io 0 0 2
6 b
si
Universal Life ... .. ... 4.• per Cen
Victoria Life •....:"-• 51. per cent.
... ,
MISCELLANEOUS.
Dividend Amount
Per of Paid. Price.
Name of Compat.y-. ,
Annum. Share.
......._4J-.---•_ ------- ----
.£ 8. d. 1 X s. d.
Assam •
.: , 5/. !5000. 20 0 0 -
AAlsctii,,
,--f,!,era ....
ert.. :: :: . 214 percent.lso 0 0 - -
Australianiq ii. Is. 100 0 0 17 10 0 201'
Aurlelo tu
81. per cent. - 25 0 0
__.4
AnstrallAn Trust •• •:
all 4
Austra,i.an
incßoiyialiMint.al.l 51. . 10 0 0
11. 10s. 10 0 0 Atiglo-p‘ex all _
British •AmericaarLand 158. - 40 0 0
Ca_
.............. 81. percent. 100 0 0 .32 10 0 131
pn;10„,
o. 5
percent Bonds ! 5/. per cent- -
Ditto,
6Or cent. ••• 5i.161. per cent. -
City Nt‘Tigation Bonds ~, - '- 107%
- -
Electric Telegraph .. 6 per cent. 25 0 0 24 0 0
20
- - - - 4
Equitable Eeversionry 7l pr. cent. 100 0 0 100 0 P • -
DIU,: New - - .... _
50 0 0 17 10 0
Gen, Not•.'crs• 6r rily(s/. sp.c. & bs, 100 0 0 - -
Oen .S team Navigation 10 p ct. 15 0 0 1114 0 0 27 Hudso's 1tn..,.'...••
, Stock. - -
4
i
1 riungentford ••y •• ~ •• .. 2/. 03. 100 0 0 100 0 0 London Inditution ... . .
London Reversionary
5/per 0 0 cent. 15 all -
Kussell Iratltation.• .. - - l --Yriee's Patenteand. Co 101. percent. - 20- 0- 0 1172 10 --- '.l
° 0 -
Reversiooary Int. Moe. 4%1. Pr cent. 100 0 0 100 0 90
Royal 51311 titiam...l ' 11. p. share. 100 0 0, 60 0 0 78%
South t ustrallan Land 6/. per cent. 25 00 , all - -Trust and Loan Cemr• '- I
Upper Canada ...- - -..20 AAI kA n -.. i.

o of

S 0 0

I 20 0 0) 5 0 0 1
—"'",-7-----------.
LIST OF SCOTTISII COMPANIES' PRICES.
, Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of Paid. Price.
Annum. Share.
-------
Tank of Scotland X s. d. X s. d.
.... 71 per cent. 100 0 0 100 0 0 184/ 0
British Linen Comriany 81. Per cent. 100 0 0 100 0 0 220153
Caledonian Bank ... EH. per ee4t. 10 0 0 2 10* 0 3/. 18s
City of tilaBgol7 4411 c. Al. per cent. 10 0 0 10 0 0 11148
Clydesdale Bank •• 5%/. p cant !20 0 0 10 0 0 12 14s
C minercial Bank .. n. per cent 500 0 0 100 0 0 223/es ]
Eastern 33ank.....• .. 61. per cent. 25 0 0 10 0 0 1 /33
Ediiib•& Glasgow,... 3%d'. p cent. 5 0 0 5 0 0 41.18 s 1
Exchaigte Bilk of Scot..
National Bank .... .. 5% percent. 100 0 0 10 0 0 17120 s
North or,:eotiand Bank bl.per cent 20 0 0 210 0 IL 178 c
licyal Bank 0f.3 con; .. 52. per cent. 100 .0 0 100 0 0 132110 (
!Union Bank of Scot. •. 8/. per cent. 100 0 0 50 0 0 921 53
Western stank •....... 7/. per cent. 50 0 0 60 0 0 75/ Os L
Alliance Fire and Lice.. 8%1.pr cent. 100 I) 0 11 0 0 181 105 1
British Guarantee . .. 41. per cent. II 0 0 , 2 0 0 I/. 10s
Caledonian Fire liver . 10,per cent. 100 0 0 10 0 0 KillOs
City ottli,a,go.3, Lite , 61. por cent. 0 0 2 0 0 11.83 g
CO oulil Lt ~........ 51. per cent. 50 0 0 1 0 0 51. 7s I
Edinburgh Life Instir. 62. percent. 100 0 0 15 0 0 27/108
Eng. & Scot, Lase Life Al.,,er cent. AO 0 0 3 5 0 U. 88
Life AS3OC. o iic.,and 5/. per cent. 10 0 0 110 031 10% •r.
National Fire and Life 64 per cent. 10 0 0 1 0 0 21. Os 46
North Ilthish :11,ittr.'.. 71. per wat. 200 0 0 20 0 0 t2l !Os
Scottie' Union Monte. 71%1. pr cent. 20 0 0 1 0 0 ii• ICS
Standard Life •• •• •• •• 51. per cent, 50 0 0 7 0 0 20110 s
United Dep Assurance W. per cont. 10 0 9 1 9 9 —.

, _