The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

as well as Bishop of Rome. He might cease to be
Pur,j,nee of Rome to-morrow, but he would .7.611 be the
'"l,B.neP of Rome, the head' of the Roman Catholic
religion, from whom they derive their spiritual power,
and the very essence of the Catholic reLgion, and to
eIY to the Catholics, that they shall not have
~,briBhiThePs who derive their power from the Pope
s„-; 'loin', is to say to them—you shall not have
inshops to confer on you the spiritual comforts of your
religtoe.—(Hear, hear.) In other words, it was gross
Persecution.—(Hear, hear.) But he was to be met with
the words—
papal a aggression on her Majesty's prerogative,
ggression, territrial aggression. There was a hrase that had been introduced by our American
dead% it was called the table of political capital.—
(Laughter.) It was an admirable speculation, with no
(*Pita! at all, for the gaining of some—(Laughter)—
and he thought the Noble Lord was obtaining political
capital on the faith of this proposition.—(Hear, hear.)
LThey spoke of territorial aggression. Now, he charged
ae Noble Lord (and he always looked to
him to deal
11411) with dealing falsely on the present occasion
This the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.)
was he new Papal aggression of which he now complained
thing.—(Hear, hear.) He was aware of it,
Ind must have been aware of it for years.—( Hear, hear.)
b °gland, the Noble Lord said, has been parcelled out
teer.;iiredhabiolfaiiri foreign
day,tpe,ds w, rh—e
when
y the Pope of Rome; but when?
this bull was introduced, and a
and Dr. Wiseman declared to be an
But waa that the first territorial aggres-
re Or
.a the first partition of England? Ever since he
knew England he had known Catholic bishops to be
B.ere, • Take, tor instance Bishop Baynes, he was called
0;1." ofdiga; he had a district that included the west
(eigan, and was, in reality, Bishop of Bath. He
et Roebuck) therefore happened to know something
the bhitn• Now he derived his power directly from
oPe. He was a bishop consecrated by the Pope.
fr•o4 PeFulisr powers of a bishop he exercised directly
ill the
Po 0 Ile was also vicar apostolic. Now
:hat 13
s °es that mean? It will appear that
far from the Pope having lately acquired
L'ltter he has divested himself of power; and that
co ar from this being an aggression it is a retrogress
ehniii-Oear, hear.) And that so far from encroaching
ketadw e Prerogative of her Majesty, he has given, as re-
Lindlieeclesiastical matters, the Catholic people of Eng-
Item.,„alue,Posser of governing themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
En Chewer
change was made the Catholic Bishop in
041e'stld was li England, leate a latera; the Pope was the
erel 13ith°P ofg the Pope was the person who
aerated the Bishop, and to whom everything was re-
d'O se a°
d, through his vicars apostolic, governed this
;IVI•trY entirely in religious matters so far as the
'Ll°lics were concerned.—(Hear.) Then it was said,
/13 will
make a hierarchy, and the bishops will be elected
eerson,
in England.—(An Hon. Member, " No, no.")
kleas_l,et u Yes. the Honourable Gentleman would find
mistaken; the bishops would be elected by
rroens i„
England. subject, certainly, to the
Tae • were file of of the Pope; but the vicars loPe-
not appointed by any persons in England,.
coneY were appointed by the Pope, they were under his
Zlntrol, they were his servants—his slaves, he might say
ind the power of the Pope was supreme.—(Hear,
• e.) But oh, it is said there is much more in it than
her. He is called Archbishop of Westminster. He
ldaetd Dr. Baines was called Bishop of Siga in partibus
; but suppose he was called Bishop of Bath
a;• Wells, what difference would it make, or where
wellid be the aggression on her Majesty's prerogative?
the great
hear.) To have such an assertion made by
.0 grsatest man amongst them, so far as power was
IsneesPede was preposterous. ould it tend to violate
llejesty'a prerogative Cost Dr. Wiseman should be
galled Archbishop of Westminster instead of b-ing called
hackedf Melipotamus? How was her prerogative
k by a mere change of words, or what was the
itseeng of the aggression upon it? He had read-
-1 he bad not read, he bad glanced over—columns
(Hill'v l columns of rubbish about the matter ; butP it
not settle the point. It was one of the glorious
I)ileges of this House that they could bring matters to a
discussion in a calm and-temperate spirit. Here they were
aot a,,
`uong a roaring set of sectarians, but in this House,.
.aAwever humble the individual, only let him say fairly
honestly whatever he may have to state—only let a.i.es reason calmly and dispassionately—and this House
listen to him.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore it was
eat he was confident, not in himself, but in the simple
statement of truth which ho had to make, and which he was
ea, would make his country, by and by, ashamed of the
ss,"4lan of the persons who had stirred up this commotion.
buir-teitr, hear.) But he wante cl:to know what was the
• itb-4hi-tig of this word aression? Had the law been
riged? Not at all. He, however, wanted to deal
trek,' with the matter, as the Noble Lord had
Ile wanted to ask what was the meaning of all
;Ltnoise? Where was the aggression upon her Ma.
re prerogative. He wanted to know what was
er teaming of this word aggression? Had the law bean
aenged ? Not at all. He wanted to deal with this mat-
11' gravely, and he asked where was the aggression upon
Majesty's prerogative, because Dr. Wiseman chose to
"4,_11 himself cardinal, or because some person else chose
tall him cardinal, and he dressed himself in a large hat,
ill Put on red stockings, and called himself Arch-
- *no of Westminster ? He wanted .not to treat
to a ludicrous manner, but he could not
,_citilettssn it without doing so.—(Hear, hear.) You
'veld not be guilty of an aggression without making an
'veld
,_ upon the existing law with a view to is
but it was said that this pretended
144resssiolln; would interfere with the loyalty of
:nit_ of our fellow•citizens. Did anybody believe that
~--wr laid an body believe that the Catholics of this
tri °try the Catholics of England, who were amongst
.a most decent, tbe most submissive, and 11e
twunt!_ld say were among the most humble of her Majesty,
Itibstetet could, of all people in the world, be accused of
jeat Ing to make an aggression upon her Ma-
al /44 prerogative, Did any one believe that,
'because Dr. Wisem en was called Car-
pe4i Archbishop of Westminster? The thing was
lisePesterous. Some time ago, in the year 1849, the
fr`Tourable Baronet opposite, the Member
.for the
htiversitY of Oxford, drew the attention of
tit-0- Noble Lord to this very subject of the
Roman hierarchy. By the way, the Honourable
Dpilr°het was the only consistent man amongst them, ex•
tePt the ,
hentleman who stood opposite to him (mean-
-406u 47:8elf(Loud laughter)—and he (th® -
Baronet), if any one deserved it, really
terited the honour of being made Archbishop
Zhe WiTesttninstor, if they must have such a digfni y.
Honourable Gentleman had been consistent ro.dm
i• nning to end. From the beginning be had sat ,
), tt are Wrong,you ought to have kept them down;
hoe no eto make these advancefso.
4t was the principle the Hon. Baronet laid down
ddi:tieeneoltf•fe,4ot
wwas one, however, which the Noble
hadd
; but, now, in 1851, the Noble Lord
Vas tire" that he had been in error, and
tae. therefore ready to become a partizan _of
to th.linn °u sable Gentleman opposite. In reply
Ilse of tj". Gentleman, the Noble Lord in 1849 made
tett following words:—" You must either give
eibtalifinfertivantages to the Roman Catholic religion, and
arnong °hhi the Pope certain other advantages
that the Pope shall not
create an •
Sou must stipulate iu return,
the Y dioceses in England without the consent of
ou'lteen; or, on the other hand, you must say that
kitui wilkl have nothing to do with arrangements of that
atith--tuitt You will not consent iu any way, to give_ any
t
hut,. It to the Roman Catholic religion in Engtan
1/tse..;ensi You must leave the spiritual authority of the
aptii-Ch,i'rely unfettered. You cannot bind the Poe's
413'041 influence unless you have some agreement. For
be r„,,wll,,Part, I inn not disposed to think that it would
agreeable'" advantage of this country, or that it would be
.44 ,i tt;? the Roman Catholics, that we should have
aptalutreement with the Pope, by which their religious
raaa'itentelits should be regulated. .But although you
islePrev
°watt b any spiritual authority from being exer-
la this Poe law,y Ot there is no proviiion—no
1100. Friend could frame that would derive the
mind,,,,• tssite influence which is merely exercised
.over the
here was a statement that they could not impose
strew vgyPalila or disabilities which would have the effect of ex-
N Carateal any control over the minds of Roman Catholics.
an; Wiseman came here powerless, without
40 iefluence except spiritual influence, wielding
ottldi)se°Z,r but the power of mind over man, an.d
*Veal, ',/3g himself simply to those who believed in his
Noble tottifluence. This aggression, and he defied. the
rd te prove otherwise, consisted wholly in the
the tiviAluee„„
i; of the Pope over those who believed
could
tizenedsed
e
feet api:ttthe''h faith. Now he suspected that there
11°-
be found a person less subject to
strange onination than the person who now ad-
- .se mos -analuse.—(Laughter.) It seemed to him one
phenomena with which the human
'''`,.(letsh°sundede and for which he could not account.
atethe-ry The Catholics bowed to the Pope, the
„opaiodists bowed to the Conference, and the Epis-
the aille t° that House, but eventually that House was
14._sonference of the kingdom, for the Queen's suprhee• 'n3' me
%or ant the supremacy of the Minister, and t
liett;elnY of the Minister meant the opinion of that
-40„4-e'---(Laughter.) He (Mr. Roebuck) bowed to the
(here:* and would continne to do so, whatever its
hbligeffs-(Rear, hear.) He did not arrogate to
'troth, " the right cf judging what was the
Luse' or of intruding himself on his fellow-subjects, be-
kp'e he differed from them; and he could tell his dis-
. -the'ing.brethren, whom he did not intend to join, that
‘,4should be careful, for they were not yet out of the
if ts --(Laughter, and cheers.) They might find,
Itcl4eY introduced this principle with regard to
a„,74t1, Catholics, that the whip would be applied to their
pact.
'Was elt—(Laughter)—and he must say that if there
•it 4rY Luau who would rejoice at seeing the infliction
*as
kise h*
unself.—(Laughter.) Then he had to ask,
ptaaylere no excuse for Roman Catholics on the
s."' %R occasion ? Had they done anything which
%R h,
• 1601,„Ikl have subjected them to insult as a reli-
-t-ondy?—(lleajr.) Was the Noble Lord wholly
4i,
,tfts")ratitof the Bequests Act? Ile could hardly fancy
4 111 "8- Certain he was that Lord Clarendon was
-auorant of it; neither was the Secretary of State
spi
tqH eolonies. He might have mistaken the
s„„h "F, of the Act, but it was quite clear he knew
. th. an Aes was in existence. Now, a person comes to
, taine!° country and calls himself cardinal, and says he ob-
soll his power from the Po pe. Now, were Roan tholics not led to believe that they might do this it'
thttleYrlilted, without any Act of Parliament? for that is
A 0 .air way
of stating the case. By the Bequests
• a Commission Was appointed under her Majesty's
;""'s patent, and Roman Catholic Bishops acted from
se
year on that Commission, and were acknow-
o
stti'hged by their different titles by the Adminie-
-
ep
is
-IL' Ile held in his hand the third
return.tert of the Commissioners, which contained
meetingsof their meeting, and at one of these
he found among the Members assembled the
s!t,lght Hon.
psUr Mr. Justice Keating, who occupied the chair,
:tee the Lord Primate, and his Grave the
V hie W Archbishop of bubliu; then canto the name
Gr" the' " Lore 4.vobbiehop Daniel