The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-18 00:00:00

to postpone the question until Monday, or any other day
next week that might be more convenient to the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know what the ques-
tion was that was to be resumed on Monday.—(Hear,
hear.) It occurred to him that there was no question
before the House, and if that were so how could they
adjourn the debate?—(Hear, hear.) Let somebody
m ,Va something, and then on Monday the question
might be taken up where it was left off.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a
question was put to him by the Hon. Baronet the Mem-
ber for Marylebone, and as he did not feel in a position
to answer it, he suggested that it should be postponed till
Monday. What he proposed now was, that nothing should
take place at present, but that the question should stand
over till Monday. Government being in full possession
of what had taken place would come down then fully
preplred to give the lion. Baronet fur Marylebone an

answer one way or another.
Sir F. THESIGER said if he understood there was
a question for the House to decide he should be dis-
posed to concur in the suggestion of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, but, like the Hon. Member for Finsbury, he
felt great difficulty in understanding, from the Right
Honourable Gentleman's statement, what the matter
was which was to be discussed on Monday.—(Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had told the
House that there were two questions to be decided—first,
as to the seat; and secondly, as to instituting a prose-
cution for the purpose of trying the right of the Hon.
Member for Greenwich to sit and vote in the House. Now,
he had great difficulty in understanding what was the
first question which the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed
to take on Monday. There could be no doubt whatever
that, according to the decision of the House, the Hon.
Member, having refused to take the oath of abjuration,
was totally incapable of taking his seat—(Cheers)—and,
therefore, he apprehended that no question of that de-
scription could possibly arise. (Mr. Sergeant Murphy
dissented.) Well, then, what was the question ?
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Cork
said there was a grave doubt, but he was not in Parlia-
ment in the course of last session, and therefore was not
aware that there was upon the journals a re-
solution of the House on a precisely similar
erequestion.—(Hear, hear.) Then if these resolutions
w
vorth anything no question of that description
was op en to them to discuss? Be hardly believed that
the House was prepared in a following session to rescind
a resolution agreed to after a long and anxious debate
on th e subject—(Hear, hear)—and, accordingly, he
thought there must be some other point which
the Bight Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor
cf the Exchequer proposed for consideration.— (Hear.)
This 1 cry same question was fully discussed last year,
when Mr. Baron Rothschild proposed to take his seat.
The E'aron refused to take the oath of abjuration, and
it wou Id be remembered that upon that refusal he im-
media'tely rose and moved that the Speaker do issue
his es rit for the election of a .new Member fur
the: CI ty. That motion was met by his Hon. Friend the
then Attorney-General, and now Master of the
Rolls, by a statement that a refusal to take the oaths
did not vacate the seat, but only rendered the Member
liable to certain penalties. He (Sir Frederick
Thesi ieer) thought his Honourable and Learned
Friend was mistaken. He had carefully considered
the su eject since, and he bad come to the conclusion that
in lays. a refusal to take the oaths vacated the seat.
Tae wi is, therefore, extremely desirous to know precisely
what eves the question which was to be raised en Monday.
Mr. B. OSBORNE rose to order. He wished to know
whether the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was strictly
in orth e. if he did Rot conclude by proposing a motion.
The SPEAKER said the Hon. and Learned Member
would certainly be out of order unless he concluded with
a motion.—( Hear, and cheers )
Sir F. THESIGER said he would beg leave then,
being i nstigated by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, to
move that the Speaker be directed to issue his writ for the
election of a Member for the borough of Greenwich, in
the roo to of Alderman Salomons, who had refused to take
the oath of adjuration in the form prescribed.—(Loud
and pr ()longed cheers for the Opposition benches.)
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said he
was very much surprised at the course pursued by the
H n. and Learned Member.—(Cheer', and cries of
Hear, hear.") He had reason to complain of his making
such a motion, after the suggestion had been almost
agreed to for the adjournment of the question until Mon-
day. He hoped he would not proceed with the motion.
• Sir F. THESIGER said it was certainly not his in-
tention to do anything more then concur in the ad-
journasent; but when the Honourable Member for
Middlesex called him to order, he felt it necessary to
conclude with a motion which would give the House to
under stand precisely the course whic he intended to
adopt on Monday when the subject again came under
discus sion.—(C he,rs.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE and Mr. ANSTEY then rose
and at tempted to speak, but were met with loud and
boister sus cries of " Order!" which compelled them to
resume their seats.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his
object in proposing the adjournment vvas to pre-
vent an outburst of that sort of feeling which
was evidently rising in the House. He was
sore every Member was anxious to avoid that degree of
angry. feeling which prevailed on a similar occasion last
year.—( Bear.) He trusted the motion, after this ex-
planation, would be withdrawn.
Sir F. THESIGER said he was ready to de so, as
the motion had now served its purpose.—(Hear.)
The motion was then formally withdrawn.
Mr. B. OSBORNE asked the Hon. and Learned
Member whether it was his intention to move the motion
again on .Monday?—(`Hear.)
Sir F. THESIGER—I am afraid, if I answer the
Hon. Gentleman's question I shall be considered out of
order.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.)
PETITIONS.

Major BERESFORD presented several petitions from
places in Essex against the navigation-lawn, and pray-
ing for an alteration of the law in regard to foreign im-
portat ions.
Sir J. WALMSLEY presented a petition from Liver-
pool against the paper and newspaper stamp duties.
Sir P. NUGENT presented a petition from a place
in Ireland, praying for protection ageing the importation
of foreign
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from a
society calling themselves the Friends of Italy, praying
that s,-eps might be taken by her Majesty to prevent the
continued occupation of Rome by the French troops.
IRISH BILLS.
Several private Bills having been read and agreed to,
Mr. ROCHE wished to know whether the Govern-
ment would have any objection to fix a morning sitting
for proceeding with several important Irish Bills which
were on the paper.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
those hills would he fixed for a morning sitting on
Thursday next.
The House then went into Committee of Supply.
After a short discussion, the vote of 9,8331. for the
Schools of Industry, at Dublin, was agreed to.
Votes aho of 6001. for the Female Orphan Asylum,
and 1,7501. for the Westmoreland Lock Hospital, and
6501. for the Lying-in Hospital, in Dublin, were agreed to.
On a vote of 38,0001. being proposed for the support
of Irish Presbyterian Ministers,
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to paying money for the
support of Irish ministers. In Scotland and England no
grants were made, and ho saw no reason why any such
should be made for Ireland. He should move to disallow
this vote.
Mr. M‘CULLAGH said the Hon. Member for Lam-
beth had certainly surprised him for once. If any ob-
jection to the vo'e was to be made, he should have
thought it would have been to the smallness of it.
Mr. C. LEWIS defended the vote. It had been first
granted by the Irish Parliament in the Revolution, and
had been continued ever since.
Mr. C. ANSTEY opposed the vote on the grounds of
consistency, having always voted against the Maynooth

grant.
Mr. W. J. FOX suggested that the vote should be
reduced annually until at last it should cease altogether.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD being opposed to all grants for
religious purposes should support the disallowal of this
vote.
Mr. HAMILTON did not see any objection to the
vote, as it scarcely amounted to more than 601. per an-
nual for each Minister.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE supported the vote, as he thought
this was a very improper time to withdraw it.
After a short discussion the House divided, when there
appeared—
For the grant ll5
Against it
Majority .......
(LEFT SITTING.)

THE LONDON GAZETTE.

(THIS EVENING.)

At the Court at Buckingham Palace, the 17th day of
July, 1851, present, the Queen's most excellent Majesty
in Council. Her Majesty having been pleased to ap-
point the Right Honourable Charles William, Earl of
Sefton, to be Lord-Lieutenant and Custos Rotulorum of
the county palatine of Lancaster, his Lordship this day
took the oaths appointed to be taken thereupon, instead
of the oaths of allegiance and supremacy.
BOARD OF GREEN 1
CLOTH BUCKINGHAM-

PALACE, JULY 16.
The Queen has been pleased to appoint Major Thomas
Middletonßiddulph to be Master of her Majesty's House-
hold, vice Major-General George Bowles, resigned.
FOREIGN-OFFICE, JULY 15.
The Queen has been pleased to approve of Mr. Bern-
hard ileneler as Consul-General in the United Kingdom
for his Highness the Duke of Nassau.
WHITEHALL, JULY 16.
The Queen has been pleased to direct letters patent to
be passed under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom,
granting to Major-General George Bowles, the office or
place of Lieutenant of her Majesty's Tower of London,
in the room of General John Sulivan Wood, deceased.
been pleased to
Eapiirs.i,nttoWbiellicamaptJaoinhsn,
WHITEHALL, JULY 16.
The Queen has
Jordanand
Thomas and
AS Stephen
ILlTtnngryg, Lee,Gent., to be a Supernume-
rary Lieutenant, in the Artillery Company of London.
WHITEHALL, JULY 18.
The Queen has been pleased to present the Reverend
George Murray to the church and parish of Balmaclel-
lan, in the presbytery and stewartry of Kircudbright,
vacant by the death of the Reverend William Wilson,
late minister thereof.
CROWN-OFFICE, JULY 16.
:UMBERS RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT

Borough of PARLIAMEN T.
K nare6borough—Thomes Collins, jun., of
Knaresborough, in the county of York, Esq., in the room
of the Right lion. William Sebright LaEcelles, deceased.Burougrt of Aruudel—The Right Hon. Edward
etrutt, of Kingston-hall, in the county of Nottingham,
in the room of Henry Granville Fitzalan Howard, come