The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-13 00:00:00

On the vote of 842,1931. Cur naval storei, for the
building and repair of ships, Sec.,
Mr. HUME proposed to reduce the amount of the vote
one-third. The number of ships in ordinary already
were more than would be required under any state of
circumstances in Europe which the ingenuity of man
could divine, even supposing the time of Bonaparte
Could come over again. Why not, as recommended by
the Committee, return to the system of former times,
and limit the number of ships to the wants of the ser-
vice? In the United States as soon as war ended
shipbuilding was stopped. The increase of expenditure
in this service had been so great of late years that re-
trenchment was absolutely necessary, and he knew no
branch in which it could bo made with so much pro•
priety as in this.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS supported the amendment.
Mr. TRELAWNEY said that an enormous sum of
Money had been wasted in Plymouth, because the wrong
site had been selected for the docks there, when a ne-
tural dock might have been made with great ease, and at
little expense, in Plymouth Sound. He thought a great
Saving might be effected by building the smaller ships
by contract. A further saving might be effected by hav-
ing the sails of their ships tanned, when they would lest
considerably longer than they did under the present
system. He could see no reason why their men-of-war
stiould not have their sails tanned as well as other ships.
lie complained also of superseding their harbour-masters
after only a six years' service. The consequence was that
Young and inexperienced hands were frequently called
upon to fill those offices in the place of men who had ac-
quired a thorough knowledge of their business by their
Six :rears' servitude.
Admiral BERKELEY said that these attacks upon
the number of their ships had been so frequently
answered that he could have very little to add to what he
had already said. It was clear that if they were to be
Unfortunately involved in war they could not have less
than 25 sail of the line in the Mediterranean, and 35 sail
of the line in the Channel. This force it was absolutely
necessary to keep up if they wished to warn the enemy
from their shores. If that be the case the Committee
would agree with him that the present number was not
more than that which was wanted to meet such an
emergency. The total number of battle-ships in their
navy was 70 sail of the line. Of these 70 there were
so many as twelve or fourteen of the small seventy-fours
left since the last war. These ships could not be any
longer considered as fit to cope with the ships of other
nations, which were built of a superior class and of
greater tonnage. It was not their fault that this should
be the case, as they had contrived to keep them through
a long-protracted war, while those of other powers were
destroyed, and now ones built in their stead. They had
twenty sail of the line on the stocks building, bat these
were not to be launched immediately, except some that
were building with screw propellers. That being a new
invention it was quite necessary that one or two should
be launched for the sake of trying how the screw would
act in case of a war. So far far from their expending
so large a sum of money as was alleged in the builing of
ship, out of that sum one-fourth only went for build-
ing, while the remainder of the sum was swallowed up
in repairs. When they talked of the great increase in
their expenditure at the present period compared with
a former one, they should recollect that at the former
period referred to they had no such thing as a steam
navy, and that it was much more expensive to keep those
steamers in repair than the other description of ships.
He concurred in the opinion expressed by an Honour-
able Member, that it would be a much more economical
plan to place their ships upon slips in order to preserve
their copper, and so save their wear and tear; but the
expense of getting up those slips would be enormous.
The Hon. Member who spoke last suggested the pro-
priety of tanning the sails of their ships. That Hon.
Gentleman, however, had never been up the topsail yard
reefing the sails, as he (the Gallant Admiral) had been.
He should like to see him gathering up a tanned sail iu
a gale of wind.-( Laughter.)
Mr. MACGREGOR said that the speech made by
the Hon. and Gallant Admiral was as superannuated a
speech as he had ever heard uttered.-(Oh, oh, and
laughter.) He (Mr. Macgregor) contended that they
were now in a position to defy the attacks of the whole
world. What was the condition of the British navy?
There were 12 ships of the line, 11 of 120 guns, one of
110 guns, 50 of 104 guns, four of 92, two of 90, 11 of
84, nine of 80, seven of 78, 18 of 72, two of 70, being
70 of the line, and 13 on the stocks and nearly finished,
which gives a total of 83 sailing ships of the line.
Frigates Afloat-25 of 50, 10 of 44, 22 of 42, four of
40, one of 33, one of 36; total, 63 frigates. Afloat
and on the Stocks-Two doublebanked 60 gun frigates,
equal to clips of the line, and six of 50, making alto-
gether 71 frigates, 65 of which would be found far
more than sufficent to destroy the whole Russian fleet.
Besides the foregoing, we have 21 corvettes of 24 to 28
guns, eight of 18 to 22, 18 sloops of war from 14 to 18,
59 brigs of 6 to 16, 11 sailing packets, besides surveying-
ships, troop-ships, yachts, and tenders. In all
78,407 tons in commission, 25,630 tons in or-
dinary, or in all 329,020 tons, exclusive of
ships on the stocks and steam-ships. Now he
would get Sir W. Symonds and others to plant these
against the best ships of the line belonging to Russia.
They were fully equal to any ships of the lino of any
other power but France. There were only two Ameri-
can ships superior to them. Their steam-fleet was nu-
merous. They were building their steamers with such
rapidity as to render many of them obsolete, when com-
pared with the other ships that were building with im-
provements made every day in their machinery. They
had also a number of ships belonging to private com-
panies which were equal to the ships of any country in
Europe. They had 147 steam-ships (including 3 in
Canada), and 32 iron steamers, 11 ranging from 1,547
to 1,980. Of these 4 were formerly 76-gun ships, and
have now engines of 450 horse-power. The largest, the
Simoom, of 1,930, has only 350-horse power. The
Terrible, however, of 1,850 tons, has engines of 800
horse-power; the Termagant, cf 1,547, has 620 horse-
power; while the Arrogant, 1,872, has only 360 horse-
power. The Retributioa, of 1,641 tons, has 400 horse-
power. One of the above 11, the Penelope,
was a 46-gun frigate ; 15 steamers from above
1,200 and 1,500 tons, 27 above 1,000 and under
1,200 tone, 23 above 700 end under 1,000 tons,
9 above 500 and under 700 tons, 27 from 250 and
under 500 tons, 22 from 150 and under 250 tons, 4 from
42 to 149, 3 on the Lakes of Canada, 1 of 406 and of 90
horse-power, and 2 of 750 and 200 horse-power; 12
packets, 237,720, some of which are very fine vessels;
58,643 in commission, to 58,501 in ordinary. Of the
steam-ships, there are built of iron the Simoom, 1,984,
and the Vulture, 1,764, both 350-horse power; the Gree-
nock, 1,418, and 550-horse power; the Birkenhead,
1,405, and 556-horse power; the Niagara, 1,395, and 35
horse power; the Trident, 850, and 350-horse power;
the Antelope, 650, and 264-horse power; the Jackal and
Lizard, 350, and 150. horse power; the Bloodhound, 378
and 150-horse power; the Grappler, 557 tons, and 220-
horse power; the Sharpshooter, 503, and 202-horse
power; the Harpey, 344, and 200. horse power; the
Myrmidon, about 350, and 180-horse power; the Sphinx
and Fairy, about 300, and about 110-horse power; and
4 small vessels of 20 to 90-horse power. Six of the
packets are iron vessels. Screw-steamers on the stocks,vize
1 80-gun screw at Devonport, 1 80-gun screw at Wool-
wich, and 1 80-gun at Pembroke. In all 150 steam- ships.
Of flag officers in commission, there were 2 admirals,
whose pay was 5,3401.; 3 vice-admirals, 7,6651.; 4 rear-
admirals, 8,760/.; 1 rear-admiral, 1,8251.; 5 commodores,
3,2851.; 11 flag-lieutenants, 2,2071. 10s.; in dockyards,
2 roar-admirals, 2,1901.; 2 commodores, 1.2771. 105.; 3
flag-lieutenants, 563/. 155.; 58 captains, 30,124/. 13s. 4d.•
82 commanders, 24,6921. 55.; 376 lieutenants, 13,249 i.
10s. Total, 540, and 101,4821. 3s. 4d. There were on
the active list 140 admirals, whose pay was 7,604/. 7s.
6c1.; 399 captains, 82,3711. 75. 6d.;
669 commanders,
107,830/. 2s. 61; 1,390 lieutenants, 13,462/. 155.; 231
masters, 23,889/. 55.; 5 mates, 228/. 2s. 6d.; 47 chap-
lains, 5,5291. 155.; 4 inspectors of hospitals, 1,332/. 55.;
237 surgeons, 31,262/. 55.; 43 assistant surgeons, 2,655/.
7s. 6d.; 317 paymasters and pursers, 34,602/4 6 secre-
taries, 1,058/. 10s.; 15 naval instructors, 855/. 2s. 6d.
Total, 3,504, and 506,711/. ss. Retired List-50 cap-
tains, 9,5811. 45.; 314 commanders, 42,763/. 55.; 47 com-
manders (late masters), 7,747/. 2s. 6d.; 7 lieutenants in
holy orders, 6661. 2s. 6d.; 2 masters in holy orders,
237/. 55.; 4 inspectors of hospitals, 9351. 63. 3d.; 7 de-
puty inspectors of hospitals, 1,843/. 55.; 2 physicians,
5471. 10s.; 48 surgeons, 5,675/. 155.; 116 surgeons unfit
for further service, 12,464/. 155.; 33 assistant surgeons,
1,8251.; 4 dispensers, 365/.; 29 paymasters and pur-
sers, 4,4981. 12s. 6d. Total, 653, 89,183/. 33.9 d. Marine
officers -7 major-generals, 4,734/. 7s. 61; 4 colonels,
2,472/. 17s. 6d.; 6 lieutenant-colonels, 1,878/. 4s. 6d.; 2
majors, 4651. 7s. sd.; 12 captains (brevet-majors),
2,743/. 115. Sd.; 108 captains, 17,2881. 16s. Bd.; 135 first
lieutenants, 11,509/. 13s. 4d.; 102 second lieutenants,
5,627/. 2s. 6d. Tetal, 1,029, 135,903/. ss. Retirement
under Admiralty circular of August, 1846-44 rear-ad-
mirdls, 20,0751.; 95 captains (36 with rank of admiral
with increase of pay), 3,465/.; 45 captains, 1,478/. Bs. 10d.
Total, 184, 69,5321. 105. Abstract-Active list, 8,504,
at a cost of 506,7111. 55.; retired list, 1,024, 135,903/. 55.;
ditto under circular, 184, 69,532/. 10s. 9d. Total cost,
712,147/. Now, let them compare their strength
with that of other countries:-With respect to the Rus-
sian navy, the present Emperor seems endeavouring to
realize the favourite object of Peter I. But however
powerful the man may be he has, Bones or later, to ac-
knowledge that nature is more powerful still. As long
as Russia keeps within her natural limits the Russian
navy will continue the hobby of the Emperor; and in
his (Mr. Macgregor's) mind the view of the naval power
of Russia, gathered together at the cutde sac of the Gulf
for the amusement of the Czar-the gate of his capital
-has caused only a painful impression. The vessels,
which will inevitably be lost in a few winters, without
having rendered any service, suggested to his mind
images-not of the power of a great country, but of the
useless toils of the poor unfortunate people condemned.
The ieo is a more terrible enemy to this navy than a
foreign power; for a time the pupil returns to his prison,
the plaything to its owner, and the first begins to wage
its more serious war upon the Imperial finances. Lord
Durham once remarked that the Russian ships of war
were but the playthings of the Russian Sovereign.
During three mouths' naval exercise the young pupils
remain performing evolutions in the neighbourhood of
Cronstaat, the more advanced extend their voyage of
discovery to Riga, and some few ships go so far as Co-
penhagen, and a solitary ship now and then strays into
the Atlantic. To admire Russia in approaching it by
water it is necessary to forget the approach to England
by the Thames-the first the image of death, the last of
life. The thoughts of a navy being destined to perish
without ever having been in action appeared to him
like a dream. If the sight of such an armament im•
pressed him with any sentiment it was not the fear of
war, but the curse of tyranny. The maxim of
Peter the Great was, " The sea at any cost," and he
founded the maritime capital of the Sciavonians
, in a marsh, among the Fins and in the
vicinity of the Swedes. But the outlet to
the sea is closed during eight months in the year. The
navy of Sweden was as follows :-10 ships, 8 frigates, 8
brigs and corvettes, 6 schooners, 8 mortar boats, 22