The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

ledged, and they have been admitted as fully as any Pro- 1 that point that he had mainly risen; but he would, with
testants holding the opinions of the Established Church to I the permission of the House, make one observation upon
the employments of the State. I will only take in illustra- that interesting subject with which the Noble Lord had
tion the fact, that of three chiefs of the courts of law in ; closed. The Noble Lord had made that night what he (Mr.
Ireland, two are Roman Catholics. We have been blamed Disraeli) would. though not in vulgar language, call an
rather for giving to Roman Catholic prelates titles to which apology for that letter, a copy of which he and almost every
au Honourable Gentleman has said he thinks them not I Member, no doubt, possessed. He (Mr. Disraeli) con-
entitled. An instance was quoted by the Honourable Mem- fessed that the observations of the Noble Lord did not
ber for Sheffield, of which till lately I did not know the his- seem entirely consistent with what had transpired. That
tory - namely, that in the Chamberlain's department it was letter he (Mr. Disraeli) considered as the manifesto of the
settled that the Roman Catholic Primate and the Roman Cabinet.-(Hear, hear.) He took the paragraph in the
Catholic Archbishop of Dublin should have the entrée to the Queen's
He could notn'sSpeechinco dnnoexotihonerwwiitshe,tbheemisaolsuettsteeehrme;
ifneaenundteohepnovloosincikeueo;
Castle. That was the act of a subordinate. .An announce- upon it as the manifesto-the matured manifesto-of the Ca-
meat
levity,
meat was inserted hastily in the Gazette; but ,the proceeding b
was unusual. What I am arguing is, that there...really:wile that no individual occupying
the
and gnf
such
no reason on the part of Roman Catholics to complaiu;ni re- in this country could, in a
gard to the free exercise of their religion, or their admission name to a document of such surpassing
to civil privileges. It was in the midst of the occurrences awful responsibility. The Noble Lord was of course per-
to which I have alluded, that having had vicars-apostolic fectly acquainted with the feelings and opinions of all his
in this country for three hundred years, and nothing but colleagues upon this great subject, even if they were not at
these during the reign of James 11., when every one of the his elbow when he signed his name to the letter. He (Mr.
principal councillors of the king was a Roman Catholic, it Disraeli) said " this great subject," because he could not
pleased the Court of Rome to direct that this country should bring himself, he would not say to believe, but to compre
be divided into bishoprics, with an archbishopric; and the hend that the appointment of 'Dr. Wiseman to a pseudo
()r
-
chief person who was made an archbishop -and Archbishop titular archbishopric of England could have produced the
of Westminster, of all places-(Cheers)-immediately pro- convulsion which that letter occasioned. He said that be-
claimed to the people of this country, "We govern and shall cause he remembered that not at a very remote period the
continue to govern as ordinary thereof, the counties of Mid- i Noble Lord gratuitously and uncalled for informed Parlia-
dlesex, Essex, and Hertford." Was this merely for bodies ment that he, for the life of him, saw no reason why a
of Roman Catholics ? It appears to me that the whole pur- Roman Catholic priest should not be called by an episcopal
port of the words is a pretension to rule this country, and title taken from any city or town in the kingdom. Mae, of
put all its parts under the sole away of these bishops.- course, was a matured opinion. He could not imagine that
(Hear, hear.) I might be mistaken in that ; but there the Noble Lord would have made a haphazard statement
was a person of great eminence in learning and talents upon such a topic without the subject having previously en-
whom we all have to deplore as having left the Pro- gaged a long, full, and matured consideration. That opinion
Protestant Church for the Roman Cotholic-I mean Mr. was declared two years ago ; he (Mr. Disraeli) could not,
Newman. Mr. Newman said that there scarcely had been therefore, bring himself to contemplate how the appoint-
a single instance of a country which had renounced the talent of Dr. Wiseman to a titular archbishopric could have
Church of Rome returning to communion with it, but he been the sole cause for that letter. The letter stated that
was happy to see that an example; had occurred in Eng- the late aggression of the Pope was insolent and insidiOns.
land. He said the English people were -sow returning to Now, he (Mr. Disraeli) was bound to state, as he had rated
obedience to the Holy See.-(Hear, hear.) If. the Queen . elsewhere, that he did not think the aggression of the Pope
came down to Parliament as Queen Mary did, and was at any rate insidious. He thought it was a frank ag-
said the time was come when the nation should return greseion - frank almost to indiscretion.-(Laughter.) He
to obedience to the See of Rome, and the Houses of never knew a proceeding more free from any appearance of
Lords and Commons had conferred with her Majesty and subtlety or covin. Every step which the Pope took was
passed an Act to that effect, there could hardly be a de- daily expected. He (Mr. Disraeli) did not, therefore, think
claration going further than that to which I have alluded, it was either insolent or insidious for the Pope to do that
The usual organs in this country and in France of the which the First Minister of the Crown had only a little
Roman Catholics-not the Roman Catholic party, but while before said he saw no harm in the Pope's doing. When
the Ultramontane Roman Catholics-maintained that this the Noble Lord wrote that letter, he (Mr. uisraeli) thought
was an act of great significance, that it did not only mean that the Noble Lord meant a great deal more, and meant to
that the archbishop and the 12 bishops were to be created, do a great deal more, than merely prevent Dr. Wiseman
but that they were to take the places of the Archbishop of from being called Archbishop of Westminster. For this
Canterbury, the Bishop of London, and all the prelates of was the tone pad these were the terms in which the Noble
the Church of England.-(Hear, hear.) It did appear to me Lord described what had occurred or was occurring in
that we could not pass over in silence such an assumption. this country through the agency of the Court of Rome :-
-(Hear, hear.) I ask the Hon. and Learned Member far "There is an assumption of power in all the documents
Sheffield, if it had been passed over in silence by the people which have come from Rome, a pretension to supremacy of
of England, does he not think we should have had some the realm of England, and a claim to sole and undivided
step following up what had been done? I believe that the opi- sway, which is inconsistent with the Queen's supremacy,
nion which has been given so generally (nearly so universally) with the rights of our bishops and clergy and with
in England, on the part of the Church•of England and the the spiritual independence of the natilid:'! That was a
great majority of Protestant Dissenters, will have convinced great subject to deal with ; and he (Mr. Disriteli)'did not
not only the Roman Catholics in England, who, I really believe that when the Noble Lord had to • deal with any-
believe, wished no such steps taken, but will also con- thing so important as that he was merely thinking of a Ro-
vince the Court of Rome that this country of England is man Catholic priest, who in England did that -which Roman
really not a Roman Catholic but a Protestant country, and Catholic priests were daily doing in Ireland with the consent
that the great body of the people are Protestant.-(Cheers.) and with the honours paid to them by the Government of
If this be the case, and such the effect of the addresses and the Noble Lord himself. No ; the Noble Lord thought that
resolutions which have been passed, by that national decla- the time had arrived, from information which no doubt had
ration of itself, we shall have saved ourselves from many at- reaehed his ear-a thought which had long occupied his
tempts on the part of the Pope of Rome to interfere in our mind-that a very great change was perhaps taking place
affairs.-(Hear, hear.) I believe the Roman Catholics did between the relations which must hereafter subsist between
not generally wish this measure. Looking from the Papal the Crown of England and the Court of Rome; and the
document I land the vicars-apostolic wished to be bishops Noble Lord took advantage (he used the word with perfect
with titles of sees in this country, and that, certain advan- courtesy)-he took occasion of this last drop in the cup to
tages and privileges which do not belong to vicars-apostolic adopt the policy which he had probably long medidated.
would have belonged to them if they could establish them- The Noble Lord had proposed to solve the most difficult of
selves as bishops of such sees. A very good reason why political problems. He and his Government were going to
vicars-apostolic should wish to claim those titles ; but, ge- reconcile a due observance of the civil and religious liberties
nerally speaking, I believe the lay Roman Catholics of this of the Roman Catholic subjects of the Queen, which civil
country-though when the measure was taken they could and religious liberties he (Mr. Disraeli), for one, trusted
hardly repudiate it-neither wished it nor approved of it at would not be impugned ; the Noble Lord was about to
present.-(Hear.) I am assured by Roman Catholics and solve this problem, whether as a statesman he could
Roman Catholic priests, that such is their feeling, and I reconcile a due observance and respect of those civil
believe we shall now be placed in the position, at all events, and religious liberties with the Queen's supremacy, with the
in which we can take measures which shall not only be sa- rights of our bishops and clergy, and with the spiritual
tisfactory to Protestants, but satisfactory to loyal Roman independence of the nation ;-a problem, perhaps, which
Catholics who wish to preserve their allegiance to the Crown might not be incapable of solution, but which would tax
unimpeached and unimpaired, and who dread the prevalence the Noble Lord's power of statesmanship to the utmost.-
of those Ultramontane. doctrines which, in every country ( Hear, hear.) Less than that he could not suppose the
of Europe, have proved formidable to every Roman Catholic Noble Lord contemplated. The Noble Lord could not be
who had a regard for freedom of opinion.-(Loud cheers.) about to bring in a Bill merely to prevent a Roman
Such, then, is the cause, as I think, of the strong indig- Catholic priest styling himself a bishop or archbishop of any
nation excited in this country, and such the present town or city in England.-(Hear, hear.) He could not be
opinion of Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. The about to bring in only such a measure, because then the
Hon. Member for Kent has informed me that, in dealing Noble Lord would not have been justified in stirring up
with this subject, I should beware of the very strong the passions of a mighty people, in exciting their highest
sentiment entertained upon it, and that I should not and holiest feelings, and in raising in this country an
fall short of the expectationo of the people. Now, I angry controversy, and polemical disputes which 'recalled
may say that I shall propose a measure as strong as my the days of the Stuarts, and of which none of those
own convictions shall lead me to propose, and not more he was then addressing might live to witness the termi-
so. I cannot yield to any one on that point. I shall not nation. The Noble Lord, as a wise and sagacious man,
take any part which I think is wrong. nor shall I introduce had no doubt weighed the consequences of his intended
measures that I think go beyond the occasion, or which will measure as one likely to be productive of good against the
in any way trench on that which I think due to the religious vast evils which it was intended to remove, and which his
liberty of all classes of her Majesty's subjects.-(Hear, hear.) own course had hitherto alone produced. Such was the
My belief is that the authority of Parliament will be suffi- kind of measure which he (Mr. Disraeli), for one, expected
cient to make those provisions that are necessary to the the Noble Lord to introduce. If the Noble Lord was going
settlement of this question, and that the voice which has to produce merely such an insignificant project as that to
been uttered in no uncertain manner from the people which he (Mr. Disraeli) had referred, then he would say
of this country will tend to the maintenance of bar- that it would be better to do nothing-(Hear, hear)-and
mony among the different classes of the community ; even at this last hour to endeavour, by doing nothing, to do
but I cannot attempt to go beyond that point which something to appease the excitement existing in the
the occasion seems to require.-(Hear, hear.) The Hon. country.-(Hear, hear.) But if the Noble Lord was pre-
Member for Limerick said I had grossly insulted the faith pared to do a great deal; if he was prepared to solve
of my Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, I beg to deny that I that great political problem which might not be incapable
have ever insulted the Roman Catholics. I made some ob- of solution, but which no Minister had yet suc-
servations I thought justified with respect to a party in the ceeded in solving, then, indeed, he might be justified in
Church to which I belong.--(Cheers.) I do not think, the course he had taken; then, indeed, he might lay
whether those observations were right or wrong, that lam claim to the reputation and character of a great Mi-
to be precluded from making any remarks I think just with nister. But such was the measure which he must bring in
respect to a part of my own Church because Roman Catholics to authorise the course he had taken. Such was the measure
may say those observations are applicable to them.- (Hear, which he (Mr. Disraeli), for one, would humbly support;
hear.) It is for them to decide whether they think those ob- and such, he believed, was the measure which the country
serrations are applicable. It is sufficient for me to say that expected; and if the country did not receive it he believed
I applied them to those that belong to my own Church, and that the verdict, both of Protestants and Roman Catholics,
that I did so not in words stronger than the bishop of the would be upon one point unanimous- that the conduct of the
diocese in which I reside.-( Hear, hear.) In respect to this Noble Lord could not be justified.- (Hear, hear.)
whole matter I shall on Friday state what is the present The motion that an humble Address be presented to her
state of the question, and what is the remedy I shall have Majesty was then agreed to, and a Committee was appointed
the honour to propose. I may state that it will be a mea- to prepare the Address.
sure extending to the whole of the United Kingdom.-- A new writ was ordered for the election of a Member for
(Cheers.) I know there have been some rumours that this the borough of Dungannon, in the room of Lord Northland,
was not intended, but there never has been any variation of who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
intention on the subject.- (Hear.) It was always intended The House adjourned at 12 o'clock, until 4 o'clock this
to make the measure apply to the whole of theUnitedKingdom. day (Wednesday)._
Ido not think it necessary now to enter upon the subject. I -
do trust that in the future course of our legislation, as well
as in the past course of our legislation, we may be able
to maintain those principles of religious liberty that are so
happily established among us; and I believe that if
there is anything by which we can have displeased Rome it
is that very fact of the civil and religious liberty of this
country.-(Cheers9 It is that of which they disapprove-
it is that which they most loathe and abhor.-(Hear, hear.)
I confess I was at a loss why, in the position or the Roman
Catholics in this country, the Court of Rome should have
taken this course. I should be the last person to attribute it
to any personal ill will on the part of the Pope towards this
country. When I was speaking last year of the revolution
by which his government was overthrown, I lamented that
a man of so benevolent intentions should have had the afflic-
tion of seeing his Minister assassinated as he was going to
the council, and that he himself should have been obliged to
leave the seat of government. I really had compassion for
him, and I do not believe he entertains any illwill to this
country. But that which I had been unable to understand
is somewhat solved by a letter addressed to me by a person
fully calculated to speak on this subject, I mean Lord
Shrewsbury.-(Hear, hear.) He states that teere is a party
at Rome who are the enemies of England, and that party is
of the fact, it goes far
prevalent at the Court of Rome. if that is the case, and
Lord Shrewsbury is a good evidence
to explain the measure that has been taken.-(Hear.) I trust
better councils will prevail ; but, whatever may be the case
in that respect, and however much we may have reason to
complain of the conduct which has been followed at Rome-
although we might think it right to state that we have been
wronged in this matter, I do not think it would be desirable
for the Minieters of this country to endeavour to make any
treaty of the nature of a concordat with Rome.-(Cheers.)
I am persuaded that we have sufficient means within our-
selves by our own ability, by our own customs and habits of
discussion, and by the authority of our own Parliament, to
provide against the dangers of any aggression or any
assumption which may be attempted.-(Cheers.) Sir, after
all, as I have stated in the letter which has been so much
objected to, what I look with confidence and reliance to is,
the freedom of this country and our civil and religious
liberties. To that cause and to those principles the people of
this country are deeply attached, and so long as they are so
I have confidence in their being proof against the aggressions
of any foreign powers, or the assumptions of any spiritual
j urisdiction.-( Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI, lest his silence should be construed into
acquiescence in the views taken by the Noble Lord, felt it his
duty to address a few observations to the House. Like the
Noble Lord, he would address himself to the principal topies
of the Speech. He thought the Government was fulleaau-
thorised in calling upon the House to congratulate the Crovitt
on the operations in Germany-not merely became *peitCre
had been maintained and our commerce benefited, ;lea *be-
cause we were bound by treaty to interfere in the affairs of
Denmark, and, by so doing, had probably prevented conse-
quences of a very dangerous character. When the Noble
Lord admitted the extreme difficulties under which the agri-
cultural body were labouring, lie seemed to be offering almost
an apology to the House for not proposing that fixed duty
which his Hon. Friend near him had somewhat unexpectedly
introduced into the discussion. But, while the Noble Lord
deplored the distress, he (Mr. Disraeli) was astonished that
it had not occurred to him nor his colleagues to make in-
quiry bow it was that a body of men, distinguished by so
much industry, energy, and enterprise as the British farmer,
should be experiencing this constant and continuous depres-
sion while other classes were prosperous' and flourishing.-
(Hear, hear.) There must be some deep cause in the system
of this country to produce such exceptional and particular
results. The Noble Lord should remember that in England
we had a financial system that was built up on the energy
and resources of one class of the community in particular,
and that that class permitted its energies and resources to be
taxed because it was thought fit by an artificial system of
legislation to secure to it a market with a certain aveer
return ; and he wondered it did not occur to the Noble tr.
that that system of finance, when the advantagrarelaT ere
drawn, must have occasioned the depression teaante_ _as
curred.-(Hear, hear.) He did not thinkaarnyrma
4°w' ^
tags depression,
in the
authorised year after year to insert .oPeita-ral depression,
Queen's Speech with reference to g
nen inquiry into the
when he was not prepared to p
wasN n9:t an evil of an ime
causes of that depression.
general prosperity of
perial importance then it wool
Government not to admit suchvso .
it
pda
rba
ge r
ampohrse, thetd ufor
confine
at the■ thy
believed they could not
not placing the question on the
remedy -alear.)idell
whatever. What he intended next
price of any
the themselves
country, t and neer passga oeuelwae rt:w h
with reference the
to whole of our
Tuesday was to ask the House to consider the position of the
taxation, to inquire whether they had not gradu-
allysystem of
this country established in a system, fiscal and other-
agricultural
wise, which had raised an immense revenue, mainly from the
interest
energies and resources of one class of the productive popula-
tion • whether that class had not been able to endure that
burden, because by artificial means they had been supported
in the struggle; whether they had not rashly, precipitately,
and without. due consideration and prepare; ion, destroyed
question speaking i
that artificial system, and left the artificial burdens -
(d lelnesa re,nlh)e, hear.)
h.
shlioeulwdaysienwot thtielenpbluerte-
of
its local
and comprehensive aspect, and if he did not succeed in dis-
covering what was the cause of that mysterious and con-
tinued depression of agricultural industry which was ad"
mitted to exist, and if he did not indicate
which were the natural results of that investigation which
he proposed Co make, remedies demanded by justice, and
reureeeilect by policy, then he;would never again attempt to
support the interest to which he was indebted for the seat
Tfhicla be bald ba that lipie.—(Hear, bear.) It rim 032

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 4.
Their Lordships resumed] shortly after Fiv© o'clock.

REGULATION OF SELECT YES FRIES BILL.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that this Bill
be read a first time.—Agreed to.
THE ADDRESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then read her Majesty's
Speech, as follows:
" Mr LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,

" It is with great satisfaction that I again meet
my Parliament, and resort to your advice and as-
sistance in the consideration of measures which affect
the welfare of our country.
" I continue to maintain the relations of Peace
and Amity with Foreign Powers. It has been my
endeavour to induce the States of Germany to carry
into full effect the provisions of the Treaty with
Denmark, which was concluded at Berlin in the
month of July of last year. I am much gratified in
being able to inform yon that the German Confe..
deration and the Government of Denmark are now
engaged in fulfilling the stipulations of that Treaty,
and thereby putting an end to hostilities which at
one time appeared full of danger to the peace of
Europe.

" I trust that the affairs of Germany may be ar-
ranged by mutual agreement, in such a manner as to
preserve the strength of the Confederation and to
maintain the freedom of its separate States.
" I have concluded with the King of Sardinia
Articles Additional to the Treaty of September,
1841, and I have directed that those Articles shall be
laid before you.
"The Government of Brazil has taken new, and
I hope efficient measures for the suppression of the
atrocious traffic in slaves.

" GENTLEMEN OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
" I have directed the estimates of the year to be
prepared and laid before you without delay. They
have been framed with a due regard to economy, and
to the necessities of the public service.
" My LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
" Notwithstanding the large reductions of taxa-
tion which have been effected in late years, the re-
ceipts of the revenue have been satisfactory.
" The state of the Commerce! and Manufactures
of the United Kingdom his 'been such as to afford
general employment to the Labouring Classes.
"I' have to lament, powever, the difficulties which
are still felt by that important body among my People
who are Owners
azdyClecocnufipdieertsit ofLanl
"But hope,
that the pros-
a favourable effect in diminishing those diffi-
of agriculture.
perous condition of other classes of my subjects will
culties, and promoting the interests • culture.
The recent assumption
of certain Ecclesiastical
itis
Titles conferred by a Foreign Power has excited strong
feelings in this country, and
have
large bodies of my sub-
jects have presented addresses to me expressing at-
tachment to the Throne,
and
praying that such as-
sumptions should be resisted. I hale assured them
of my resolution to maintain the rights of my
Crown, and the independence of the nation, against
all encroachment, from whatever quarter it may
proceed. I have, at the same time, expressed
my earnest desire and firm determination,
under God's blessing, to maintain unimpaired the
Religious Liberty which is so justly prized by the
people of this country.
"It will he for you to eonsider the measure
which will be laid before you on this subject.
" The administration of justice in the civil depart-
ments of law and equity, will no doubt receive the
serious attention of Parliament; and I feel confident
that the measures which may be subinitted with
a view of improving that administration, will be
discussed with that mature deliberation which impor-
tant changes in the highest Courts of Judicature
in the Kingdom imperatively demand.
measure will be laid before you providing-
fo.*,64,4blisbraent ,of, a system of /iegistnition -oft
peeds and instruments relating to the Transfer o