The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-17 00:00:00

(Continued from our Paper of yesterday.)
Mr. INl‘KisiNos, in continuation, said—
From the nature of the whole propositions he could not
suppose that the Government had taken time to consider the
question, for it was one that required much consideration,
being one of the greatest importance—being nothing less than
a material change in the trade with China, and the government
of India. It was to be lamented that such opinions should be.
abroad as those, because when the trade to India was opened,
a great number of the manufactures of this country had been
exported. The same would be the case when the trade with
China was opened. But China bore no analogy to India what.
ever—it differed from that country in almost everything.
There was a great cry for a free trade with that country ; but
merchants, if allowed to go there, would find that they would
meet with men who were well acquainted with the principles
of commerce, viz, to buy as cheap as possible, and sell to
the best advantage.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He spoke
with feelings of great respect of the Hong Merchants,
for in them he had found friends when he was in need of them,
and he had seen them do actions of kindness and humanity
that would do honour to an Englishman. The Ministry ap-
peared to be much misinformed with respect to the manner in
which the trade was carried on between the Companyand China
and the sooner they made themselves acquainted with it the
better. They seemed to forget that the trade with that country
was carried on entirely through ten or twelve men, appointed
by a most jealous Government. Did they know that, in the
seventeenth century, in China, they had five ports open, but
that now all were closed but. Canton ? At the time those ports
were open, it was well known the trade was carried on
entirely by a system of bribery.—(Hear, hear. They should
also bear in mind that Cochin China had excluded the Dutch
even after they had traded for many years and had established
a factory, and that on many occasions they had excluded the
Russians. He was not a friend of monopoly in any shape,
but he would ask whether free trade could be carried on when
it was only on one side ? Could it be carried on in the port
of Canton, amidst all the jealousy that there existed, and being
only confined to a few men? He would read an extract
from a letter written by a gentleman of high character, uncon-
nected with the Company, in 1818. It was relative to the ap-
pointment of a Consul in China. It stated that such an officer
would not be recognized by the Government, and could not
put up, being the representative of his Majesty, with the insults
that would be offered to him. He could not bear to have his
letters returned nnopened ; and still uphold the national dig.
nity. Also that habit had the force of law in that country,
and that even though a Consul was resident, the natives would
look up to the head of the factory, who got his great name from
the high character of the Company. He was of opinion that
it would be impracticable to place the regulation of the Indian
revenue in the hands of a King's officer—(Hear)—and lie was
confident that it would be unwise and impolitic for the
Government to allow private ships to trade with China.
This was not his own opinion alone, but it was also the opi.
nion of those who were much more capable of judging of
the subject than himself; in particular, he was supported by
a petition which was presented to the House of Commons
eighteen months or two years ago, from the British residents
in China, which lie would take the liberty of reading. The
Hon. Gentleman then read the petition, in which the great
superiority of the Company's agents, and their great influence,
with the Chinese Government were asserted to be such as no
private individual could ever hope to possess.' In reading
that document, he did not do so merely for the in.
formation of the proprietors, but for the informa-
tion of the public, who he thought should have all
the information upon this important subject which it was pos.
sible to obtain.—(Hear, hear, hear.) That petition proved
the superiority which the Company must always have
in trading with China, and that in all cases when
redress for injury is to be sought for, while an
individual would fail in his application the Company is certain
of obtaining it. Those were important facts in the considera-
tion of this momentous question. He asked what com.
mercial establishment, either in Asia or elsewhere, equalled the
Company's establishment at Canton in extent and importance ?
would it be prudent to place that great establishment, which
had been so long and so extensively conducted, to place it in other
hands ? He was sure It would not, for that establishment had
hitherto been considered as essential to the Chinese government.
lie asked what change had taken place to justify such a course?
He knew of no consideration of mutual interest which could
reasonably require so great a change. At a club where he
drank tea last night, he met several Members of Parliament,
and, some how or other, the subject of tea was introduced—
(Laughter)—and all present were decidedly of opinion
that fresh black teas were better Ilan old.— (Laughter.)
The Chinese, however, invariably preferred old black tea to
fresh, and he believed that flood tea, the longer it was kept the
better.—(Laughter.) He bad at the present time in his pos-
session tea that had been brought from China twenty-eight
years ago, and if any gentleman would do him the honour of
taking a cup with him, he had no hesitation in saying that he
would not find better inGrosvenor-place or any other part of Lon-
don.—( A laugh.) In making these observations, he did not refer
to green tea, but he would ask what security would the public
have against the adulteration of tea if the Company were to be
depriyed of their china trade.—(Hear) At present under the
judicious arrangement and superintendence of the Company,
the public were secured against such an adulteration, but if the
plan proposed by Ministers was adopted, that would be put
an end to.—(Cheers.) It had been said that the Americans
could obtain teas from China at a cheaper rate than the Com-
pany, he admitted that at times, when there was a scarcity of
money in China, they might do so, but it could not be at a I con-
sidered as a general thing ; but the Company, it must be
remembered, had the advantage ; they always had the se:ection
p the hest black teas.—(Hear.) He had great confidence in
the President of the Board of Control and in his Majesty's
Ministers; and be felt assured, that before Ministers sun.
milted this great and important question to the con-
sideration of Parliament, they would well consider the in-
calculable value of the India trade to China, and would bear in
mind that India was one of the greatest military powers in
the world—(Cheers)—and had been greatly instrumental in
adding to the military character of England. It must also be
remembered that India yield au immense revenue to this
country, on whom it had never been a burthen.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) This country was, therefore, bound in gratitude
to consult the benefit of that country; but was that to be
done by abolishing the power of the Company ?—(Loud
and continued cheering) He thought that no man pre-
sent would be rash enough to say that it was ; the

Company had just clai ns to the privileges they now enjoyed,
and the country owed them for the manner which they had
conducted the affairs of India an immense debt of gratitude.
The worthy proprietor coniuded by thanking the court for the
patience with which they had heard him.—(Cheers-)
Mr. WADING said, it was highly important that in the en.

deavours to come to a proper and just conclusion upon this
subject, they should look solely to the fact of the case, and
therefore he had some reason to complain of the use which the
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had made of the petition

which he had read. That petition was presented in 1830, and
was consequent on the alarm that was raised, and the advice
that was given to the Proprietors to withdraw their capital,
for their commerce was in danger. That petition showed
what was well known, via. the great influence possessed by the
Company, but it also showed the great extent of the foreign
trade with China, that while the Company's trade had been
11 millions, the foreign trade was upwards of 30 millions.
He was aware to what an extent the revenue of India
had increased since 1814, when the existing charter was re-
newed, and he knew also, that that increase did not arise
from any increase o; taxation, but from the increase of trade,

cepital, and population, together with the introduction of
better laws.—( Hear, hear.) He would beg to refer the Pro-
prietors to the evidence before them, with the view of coming
to a determination of what they now should do. The Hon.
Gentleman then read from the documents which had

been published, the first intimation made to the Corn.
pany by the Government, while the Duke of Wel.
lington was in office—and when the period was arriving
when it was necessary to give the usual Parliamentary otice
respecting the renewal of the Company's charter, with a view
of showing what was then the intention of the Government,
He wished to put the real question before the proprietors, and
it was this. Their lease expires in 1834, and, as appeared at
present, there was no possibility of their getting a renewal of it.
That being the case he would ask the friends around him whe-
ther there could be a more convenient time than the present in
which to make concessions? Let them then say to the Govern-
ment, we will snake such and such concessions, upon the un-
derstanding that you will grant us a liberal compromise. He
must say that'he had great confidence not only in the Directors,
but in the men whom they employed, and he must say that
in the whole of the correspondence they had the best of the
arguments, and had totally beat the Government. All that
they said was, if you do not do so and so, as we have made up
our minds, we will pass Acts of Parliament, and then see in
what situation you will stand. There seemed, to be a great
lack of knowledge among the Ministry. Would any one have
believed, unkss they had read it, that at this day it would
be said that the territorial debts should be paid
by the commercial assets, because upon the bonds
the same names appeared as on the others.? Wh. y, what
would be said of any person saying that Exchequer Bills ought
to be paid by Lord Grenville, because his name appeared on
them? Yet the cases were parallel. He was sorry that he
could not agree with the last speaker; but he could not put
any confidence in the wisdom, and less in the intentions, of
the Right Hon. Gentleman who was at the head of the Board
of Control. He might do very well at the Board of Trade,
where he formerly, was, but he was misplaced where he was.
He agreed in the opinion that Ministers, in wishing to open
the trade to China, were desirous of succumbing to popular
opinion ; but amidst all the sacrifices they asked the Company
to make was one most monstrous propositition, viz., that the
Company should take the Government of India without any of
The posveri to enable them to govern it well.—(Hear.) He
declared that he could place no faith in the integrity of the pro-