The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-26 00:00:00

ANNUITIES.

Mr. SC HOLEFIELD moved for returns showing the
amount of annuities for lives, and for terms of years,
granted in each year since 1810 inclusive; and the
amount of capital stock cancelled in each of the said
years on account of such terminable annuities:
and of the amount of the annuides for lives, and for
terms of years, which have ceased in each year since
1810 inclusive.—Agreed to.
CLERKS IN THE MEDITERRANEAN FLEET.
Sir G. PECHELL inquired of the First Lord of tho
Admiralt), whether any arrangement was likely to be
made for carrying out the prayer of the memorial of
the clerks in the Mediterranean fleet for granting
them the same rank and privileges as awarded to the
other subordinate officers on passing their examination?
Sir F. BARING said that part of their prayer had
been agreed to, and the remainder of it would be taken
into consideration.
IRISH LEGISLATION.
Mr. REYNOLDS said it was customary for the Trea-
sury Secretary to move on a Friday that the House at
its rising should adjourn to Monday, but as the Hoe.
Gentleman had not to-day made that motion, he would
avail himself of the omission to make that motion for the
purpose of drawing attention to the state of the legisla-
tion for Ireland in the present session. In doing so he
thought he might as well at once anticipate the objec-
tions which would be taken to the course he proposed to
pursue. It would be objected that too much time had
been devoted to Irish affairs. He must deny that. Since
the month of February last, when Parliament met, no
measure for the benefit of Ireland had been passed. It
was true the Noble Lord passed a Bill of pains and pe-
nalties against the religion of the country, which he car-
ried with large majorities through that House, and
which was now passing with railway speed the other
House of Parliament. He also had the credit of with-
drawing the public grants hitherto made for the medical
hospitals of the city of Dublin. It would be much
better not to allow the Irish Members to sit in
the House .at all than to treat them as they had
been.—(Herr, hear.) A Committee had been appointed
to consider the propriety of doing away with minis-
ters' money in Ireland, of which the late Mr.
Shiel was chairman ; the result of the inquiries was
that this obnoxious tax was unanimously condemned
as an insult to the Roman Catholics, and most irksome
to the clergy to receive. The Noble Lord promised to
bring in a Bill to remedy this abuse, and when he
called attention to the subject the Noble Lord's answer
was, that to o much time had been given to the Ecclesi-
astical Titl is Bill to allow him to bring the measure
forward. The amount of this payment was 16,000/. a
year, and of that 11,0001. was paid by his constituents,
and he had therefore a right to call attention to this
subject. He would refer to another subject, with regard
to which, however Irish Members might differ upon
other matters, they all felt that the business of Ireland
was not conducted in that House in a proper and busi-
ness-like manner.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON rose to order. The
course which. the Hon. Gentleman now pursued was an
illustration of that. He considered that it was over-
straining the rules of the House to bring forward this
subject without notice, and wished to take the opinion
of the Speaker upon the point of order.
The SPE.AKER said it was overstretching the rules
of the House for the Honourable Member, upon a motion
of this kind., to introduce such a discussion, and was
most incon venieut. The Honourable Gentleman tees
not, howee er, out of order. He certainly ought upon
such a motion to assign some reason for moving the ad-
journment.
Mr. REYNOLDS said he was glad the Right Hon.
Gentleman (the Speaker) had decided not to interrupt
him. In the first week of February between ten and
twelve Irish Bills had been introduced, and with one
exception they were still in that House, and which had
escaped to another place. The Cnief Secretary for Ire-
land, however, now proposed an attempt to carry them
forward when Parliament had not more than ten days to
sit and one-third of the Irish Members were out of
town, while others were kept watching the progress of
these Bills till very late hours. He would refer to three
Bills to illustrate the course of their legislation for Ire-
land. There was the Improvement of Towns Bill, which
contained 180 clauses. This Bill was read a first time
the 10th of February, and on the 11th of April it was
read a second time, and then sent to a Select Com-
mittee, and remained until the Ist of May for report;
the Bill was afterwards postponed from day to day until
the present period of the session. He also traced the
progress of the Valuation of Ireland Bill, and the Me-
dical Charities Bill, which had been postponed in the
same manner. He then referred to the mortality in Ire-
land, and remarked that the population in 1841 was
8,200,000, and iu 1851 was only 6,500,000, and which
ought to have increased to 9,000,000.—(11ear, hear.)
They said that a million of this decrease had arisen from
emigration, but what had become of the other million
and a half? They were to be found in graveyards. The
Honourable Gentleman complained that the returns
from Kilrush, in relation to the mortality and ill-treat-
ment of the poor in the workhouse of that place, had
not been laid on the table. The consequence was that
he was not able to bring forward his motion on the
subject. If he had had the opportunity, he would have
establish a case of manslaughter against the Poor-law
Commissioners in Ireland. He asked the Noble Lord to
call upon his subordinates to save Ireland from this mid-
night legislation of which he was complaining. Ireland
was said to be the right arm of the empire. She was
neither the right arm nor the left now. She was in fact
no arm at all—(A laugh)—owing to the way in which
she was treated by this country. He would call upon
his country to combine to defend themselves.—(Hear,
hear.) They had passed the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill,
and let them take care that their passing of this Act,
and such like conduct, did not so operate as to wean en-
tirely the affections of the people of Ireland from this
country. He had always advocated a unity of action
between England and Ireland, and he regretted that Ire-
land was treated in the manner she had been, as
that treatment was calculated to destroy the great ob-
ject which he desired. He begged to move that the
House, at its rising, should adjourn till Monday.
Sir H. W. BARRON seconded the motion, and said
that the people of Ireland were progressing in poverty
and misery. He knew that the shipping interests were
seriously injured in Ireland, and that the coach-making,
and the manufacture of glass and other interests, were
suffering from the policy pursued towards Ireland. He
complained of the manner in which the House had
treated the agricultural question, in which Ireland was
so deeply interested. They also rejected his motion for
an inquiry into Irish distress—although a large number
of the Irish Members supported the motion—but an
English majority defeated him. The Hon. Baronet then
referred to the motions made in respect to the Irish
spirit duty, the milling interests,
and other Irish ques-
tions, and said that, although these motions had received
the support of a large body of the Irish Members, they
were lust in consequence of English Members putting
down the voice or Ireland—ou subjects in which Irish
Members only were interested—and in respect to which
English Members bad uo interest whatever. He pro-
tested against this species of legislation, which would
not be suffered by any other people in the world.
Mr. MONSELL said there were at least three mea-
sures before the House, which, unless they made great
efforts, they would not be able to pass; and, as these
measures were of the greatest consequence to Ireland,
he wished to know if the Government would take effec-
tive steps to carry them ? He alluded to the Medical
Charities Bill, the Irish Health of Towns Bill, and the
Valuation of Lands (Ireland) Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL would object to the motion of the
lien. Member fur Dublin, because he wished to proceed
with Irish business. The Bill in relation to ministers
money was not brought in owing to the delay in the
business of the House, by the opposition given by the
Hon. Member for Dublin, and the other Irish Members,
to the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. He was desirous of car-
rying through Parliament the measures referred to by
the Hon. Member for Limerick, and Government would
do so if they were not interrupted by uncalled-for dis-
cussions by Hon. Members for Ireland.
Mr. ROCHE hoped that next session a morning sitting
on one day in the week would be granted, for the pur-
pose of disposing of Irish questions of a purely social
character.
Mr. SCULLY complained of the legislation adopted
with respect to Ireland, and said, if the Noble Lord
(Lord J. Russell) had heard the charges brought for-
ward by the Hon. Member for Dublin, he would surely
have felt it right to have replied to them.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY wished to know what course
the Noble Lord intended to pursue in reference to the
question of the minister's money, and he should like also
to know what was the precise course to be adopted in re-
spect to the three measures referred to by the Hon.
Member for Limerick.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER felt it
impossible to say precisely when his Noble Friend at the
head of the Government would be able to bring forward
the subject of ministers' money. Of six Irish Bills on
the paper for that evening three might have been over-
taken had it not been that Hon. Gentlemen had occupied
so much of the time of the House. The discussion whioh
had taken place effectually prevented the Improvement
of Towns Bill being arrived at to-night.
Mr. WAKLEY intimated his desire to know whether
there was any prospect of arrangements being made to
complete the formation of Finsbury-park. He should also
inquire whether it was the intention of her Majesty'e
Government to bring in a measure forthwith to render
the Crystal Palace a permanent structure, for he found
the feeling universally prevailed out of doors that the
Cr) stal Palace should remain a permanent structure, and
the public had heard with alarm that the contract be-
tween the Commissioners for the formation of the
Palace, and the Noble Lord the First Commissioner of
Woods and Forests, imported that the removal of the
structure would commence in November, and the whole
be taken dews within s7x it nibs.
THE BISHOP OF ROCHESTER.
Sir J. PAKING iv iN stated that the Hon. Member
for Penrhyn, when he brought forward his motion on
the Rochester case, made a statement which the Bishop
of Rochester thought injerious and unjust towards hiat
at the time he was Dean of Rochester. The Bishop
complained of a statement made by the Hon. Member to
the effect, that the stipends of the boys on the foundel-
tion at Worcester had been reduced from 2/. 13s. 4d. u?
ss. 10d. Mr. Wheeler, the head of the cathedral
school at Worcester, had written a letter (which the
lion. Baronet read), to the effect that the stipend PO°