The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-08 00:00:00

THE SUN,

Mr. COBDEN said either one form or another ough '
to 174 adoptp.d.
Mr. HENLEY said the octavo form had b-ten found
tn9re eonv,rnent; but h., did not think the printing was
bo easily read as thlt of the old form.
Th,, vote was then agreed to, as were also the follow-

roe
ti fluid unsig'ntly huilclir es which new surround the
b Pal'ie' of Westminster and Westminster Hall would
'so ei removed.
1• ,ter 'ow word- free Sir W. CLAY,
•T,' ,n,a motion was to g,.tiveo e
s-IePLy.—MISCELLANEOUS ES fIeIATES-
House then went iuto a Committee of Supply;
BEaNee in the chair.
Lte eof e 32,000/. 'or ioreign and secret service hiving
en Prep seed,
ull% WILLIAMS said he could not understand why
pee;_an enormous amount was required for such par
th.;. An impression prevailed amongst the public that
of secret service money was spent on elections.—
illeer/ire Oh, a laughter.) lie moved that the vote
Lrerei be relnd uced to 20 000/.
eza`sl• C. LEWIS defended the vote, which was the
eel proposed under that head since 1822.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he had always been op-
tcusd to.what was called secret service money. Per-
some of it was laid out in entertainments for the
(ti Chancellor of the Exchequer in DAvning-street.—
d, sughter.) They might, perhaps, be entertaining Car-
ml Wiseman, or rather bribing him to ,stay out of the
Way
th • *—l Laughter. He thought a British House of Corn-
gli! ought not ite be upon now-a-days to vote
Is IC 4uueY away without knowing what became of the
-obey. •
4r• FIUME thought the time was come when we
migh.
7. dispense with the secret service money.
b `eurd PA.I.MERSTON ceuld iuform the Hon. Mem-
wZabehid him thet nene of tile bectet service mueey
bo ever spent in bribery at. elections. No Government.
*ever could go on without having a certain ,amount
istfthiti:ind for purposes essential to the public service.
should be borne • • d that information was ro-
w_ In min
'recl by the Government from time to time from per-
'fla wheise names could not be published.
4r• DISRAELI said he had for fourteen years given
st ail
tad e--- vote in favour of the secret service allowance,
ith Perhaps the Committee would allow him to state
Lutbhee.vvould again support it. The Hon. Member for
oth ta. (Mr. Williams) had announced
.that there was
een,rhg in the state of our foreign relations, or in the
erF`tiola of our colonies, which could justify any extra-
-42 scary or secret service expenditure by the Govern-
ment, Now he (Mr. Disraeli) confessed that he had
et' that announcement with considerable satisfaction.
ttiethadnot previously been aware that the state of
they leeor even the- state of our colonies, was such that
qt,iclkht congratulate themselves -on perpetual trail-
itY, or on a condition of affairs which demanded no
extraordinary exertions. The Hon. Gentleman the
itter,lsber for Lambeth had further said that a general
hyr,r,eieri prevailed to
fortshe effect that the sum demanded
it.1.11‘!3 Government • crest service money was spent
pect'lluhencing elections. Now that was a strange charge,
pro (Mr. Disraeli) in supporting the vote, should
the, against the supposition that be ass doing so with
Q. latention of enabling the Government to influence the
Nietsotett of this country. He did not wish that fo-
oh" geers should think that our elections were conducted
80 miserable and meagre a scale as that 32.0001.
Bald exercise any serious influence over them.—(Hear,
0,2%) There was a blue book in their library which
itti`7l.sed.that 32.000/. had b.en spent by one candidate at
of 11etion, in Norwich. With respect to the allegation
Li is lion. and Gallant Friend the Hon. Member for
.
hi,:11,1 that the money might have been spent in enter-
it,',estis in Downing street, be had only to observe
oti, us had not been aware that there was any extra.
tetetarY hospitality in that quarter which could render
e.(Aits'Y such a misappropriation of the puhlic money.
P0r,70. 'sugh-) He belt. ved the fact was, that a large
1101;'11ot the sum must be spent in the payment of pen-
the 1%4) Persons on the continent, who, in the course of
see great great European war, bad rendered important
to this country; and he thought it not impro-
kr that the vote bad of late years become consider-
ef diminished in consequence of dea.hs among persons
pri,nt description. Now if the money were
.appro-
kerZuld to the payment of such annuities and pensions it
well fr ti°, him that her Majesty's Ministers would do
to state the fact to the Committee. He did
Ilet4t:ittnitYhat a sum of 32 0001. was too much to place
reset!: disposal of the Government of this country for
1104,4 Peculiar cl-sims on their favourable considera-
Reuidssud he believed that the smallness of the item
Zarp, excite the surprise of every court in
tad 11,-e• Re should protest against the exaggeration,
the r e would say the irrationality, which had provoked
Lit,be:shrks ee the Hon. Gentleman the Member for
L +sir COB
usee vciDEN said that the conjectures which had
is wheiefitiered by several Hon. Members as to the mode
lam that money was spent seemed to him to afford
khnt*ground of opposition to the vote. Those Hon.
very el' suspected that the money was spent in some
nth trf'er.ionable manner; but was it any wonder that
vitteti'llePicion should be entertained? He defied any
hoeutrrto believe that the money was devoted to any
tlevatimahoal \412 Purpose. The Noble Lerd (Lord Pal-
'ld told them that it was necessary.they
ill'o'stear4l for secret information. But that only
*ire spir4'uat the Government thought it desirable to
I:thet.sud traitors abroad. He very much doubted
tl'oeti 11;41 really valuable information was ever ob-
k-reh it th' means of that money; for they might depend
ler Sail Se,,-„tt nine cases out of ten persons who came
ember-ett persons who told lies. The Hon.
money fez' Iluecrkeing hamshire had suggested that the
kr, j alight
be spent in our colonies.—(" No" from
oltB,-P,9 The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the
colonies as one mode of accouutieg for the
notesass of secret rervice money; and that certainly
"got cemPlimenrary to the inhabitants of those die
shoZ"tesaions. The whole course of that discussion
°ow impolitic it was to have the vote at all. Ha
to 20 el impport the motion for reducing the sum
• 'UQOI
- ; and .he should also protest against the pm-
' tlab,"„sf having any secret service money. Tee sum in
lie;"011 was is itself a trifling one, which could, he bee
cohlui be productive of no serious advantage to this
ti:ntry, while it injuriously affected among foreign ne-
ts our character for lair dealing.
Gentleman
NEWDEGATE said he should remind the Hon.
tali4tieulan the Member ter the West Riding of York-
-1,4° that in the 'ear 1845 a sum of 100,0001. had been
Lseribed by the Anti-Corn Law League, and that that
ism had been placed entirely at the disposal of the corn-
4ise _
f 01 the League. The Hon. Gentleman had him-
(fit 'sec a leading member of the committee, and he
Newdagate) remembered to have read a speech in
14'4 the Hoe. Gentleman had expressed his gratitude
his 910 confiet nce which had been placed in him and
4ssociates by the subscribers to the fund.—(Hear,
tbear,) That was a somewhat curious circumstance in
history of an Hon. Gentleman who was so vet:ta-
ttle:lg! opposed to the allowance of a sum of 32,000/. to
of ti:"VartiMent for carrying on the less public business
415 great empire.—(Hear, hear.)
bee„r• COBDEN said that if the lion. Gentleman had
hp :41: subscriber to the Anti-Corn Law League he would
trio. uhf s have been better acquainted with the proce ed-
The‘e- the League had published all their arc amts.
kaki d Performed ever) thing openly, and if they had
otherwiee the • would nut have succeeded as they
141 dune e
kr t 0.%
vow'. A.SRAELI slid that the Hon. Member (Mr.
had ee) had misunderstood him upon one point. He
?t had
that any portion of that money was
sot :Ll:to:he colonies. All he had said was that he had
%tt." "are that the colonies were in so tranquil a
as the Hon. Member for Lambeth had stated.
etp„Leald not allude to the many instances in which the
adira?nent of secret service money had been of great
Gset,talte to the nation, for he was aware that the lion.
titian despised history and defied experience.
Atitr,r ont eNEWDEGATE said that the accounts of the
afier %d Law League had never been rendered until
the Lthe League had been dissolved. During the period
tome,.egue had been in active operation it had never
Co its "collets public.
tohis, nel SIBTEIORP said that if anything could add
delis sleternfination to oppose that vote it was the speech
ere by his Hon. Friend the Member for Bucking-
Itthird e in its favour.
oCr': WILLIAMS said be was not surprised at the
of the Hon. Gentleman the Member for
ktaocamghamshire upon that occasion. He bad never
tfti„wri a gentleman in office—or who expected be in
ge's"--that was not a supporter of the vote. The Hon.
4tllpeman if he were a minister of the Crown, would,
I„.,treubt, employ the money prudently, and would not
rend It in entertainments.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment . 41
..•
Against it *** 140
Majority •• ••• •
---99
•
'The vote was then .a.g.reed• to. •• •••
.26,5661. for stationery and printing.
51,.
profits
HUME wished to know why the printing and
7auts of the Gazelle were not put into a separate fie'
'utAt, He observed a sum of 3001. in this vote on ac-
thil_YOf the expenses of the Royal Exhibition Com-
trit,l3. He regretted that this small stun had been palithe estimate.
star- C. LEWIS said that by the alteration made last
bloth
e whole profits of the Gazette were paid into the
Oequer, and the expenses put into the estimates.
1044:-. REYNOLDS complained of the reduction made
:lobe
_vote as regarded Ireland. A treasury minute
eo7 Which provided that the printing and binding
he.eeeted with Irish business should be executed in Dub-
. It a
,coat
complained that the
.work was done in London
,coa
lin to f •30 per cent over what it could be done for
ul
the
•
?4tel SIBTHORP also objected to the 3001. for
Exig,trting and stationery of the Commission for the
_"oh. It appeared the Honourable Member for
tior7°.a.e had been twenty-seven times at that Exhibi-
e 1413, was happy to say, be had never been once.
ecsun;nole affair, instead of being any advantage to the
tle,tr' 37, was a curse, and he every day was told by
connected with it that it had turned out to be a
siasettP?ointment and a humbug.--(Question.) Con-
teLte".'R that it had bean the means of extracting, by
peette`tr_ich, fraud, or coejuration, 300,000/. out of the
to co s_ of the people, be thought it was shameful
on the House to vote for it this paltry item of
(Qeestion.)
the e WILLIAMSia4I(IIer, hoped the 300/. would be repaid by
mete
4i Mr• LABOYCH ERE said the Government, ent,a
er
to the ofas
principle, had thought it right, according
Rove, ,1,7,ual practice, not to allow the expense of a
p4Ai:rkcinuntUalation to be defrayed otherwise than by
Mr. spr,k•P
for ? ONER asked what expenses the 3001. was

ing vote,:
13,0001. for law charges paid by the Solicitor to the
Treasury.
86701. for prosecutions relating to coin.
t 7,700 i for Sheriff 'd
expenses, officers of the Court of
Exchequer, &c.
9,0801 for the Insolvent Debtors' Court. •
87,8401. for criminal prosecutions, and other law
charges, Scotland.
On the vote of 60,000/. for criminal prosecutions, and
other law charges. Teland,
Mr. O'FLAHERTY called the attention of the
Attorney-General for Ireland to the inefficient manner
in which the prosecutions were managed on the Con-
naueht circuit.
Mr. HA i.'CLIELL said representations had been made
to him on the subject, to which he had in consequence
directs d his attention, with the view of removing all
cause for complaint iu future.
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the follow-
ing votes :-
35,5001. for the police of Dublin.
200,000/. for prosecutions at assizes and criaeter sea-
sioris tormeriy paid from county rates.
15,4721, for the general sup,rintenchnce of prisons and
co, viet service at home ised in the colonies.
251,2691. fur Govereinioat prisons and convict este-
blishmi nts at home.
117,1901, for the maintenance of prisoners in county
gaols and I3ethlem Hospital.
The next vote was for 98,8601. for expenses of trans-
portation of convicts to the colonies.
Mr. HUME said, he had already objected to the pay-
ment of money to send convicts to Van Dietnen's Land,
in consequence of the dislike of the colonists to receive
c invicts and to have their colony any longer made a
penal colony. He thought, therefore, it would be wise to
postpone the vote as far as Van Diemen's Land was con-
cerned until the present discontent in the colony was at
an end, and further information obtained from Govern-
ment as to the future intentions with reference to the
transportation of convicts there. The Colonial Minister
appeared to go on in a headlong course, regardless of
every remonstrance directed to him, and therefore it was
the duty of the House to interpose a check upon a policy
that could only continue to produce discontent and mis-
chief.
Mr. C. LEWIS consented to postpone the vote for a
few days, when he hoped such reasons would be ad-
vanced as would induce the House to agree to the pro-
posed sum. The expenses at home for convicts were
greater than usual, because a large proportion of con-
victs were suffering their punishment at home in place of
being sent as heretofore to the colonies. The difference
in expense in the case of home convicts was more by
20,0001. this year than last year, while the expenses fur con-
victs sent to the colonies was less by 17,000/. Therefore
the House would see that the number of transports was
diminishing. Tne number of prisoners last year at home
was 9,828 The number at present was 10 872, and
this would prove that Government were &leg all they
could to diminish transportation to the colonies.
Mr. HUME did nut complain of the amount of
money, but be complained of throwing on the shores of
any colony a number of convicts against the wishes
of the colonists, and in the teeth of the promise and
pledge given by the Colonial Secretary that this system
should cease. It was a breach of public faith to act as
we were acting. It was on that ground alone that he
obj cted to the vote.
Alderman COPELAND said he could bear witness
to the ill-effecis of sending convicts to Van Diemen a
Land. He believed 12.000 persons had signified their
iutention to emigrate from .hat colony in consequence
of the Government persisting in forcing convicts upon
them.
Tne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was impossible to discontinue sending out convicts to
Van Diemen's Laud all at once. The only thing that
could be done was to diminish the number gradually.
He would also remind the House that some colonies
Australia, for instance, desired, a° have convict labour.
Government were doing all they could ; they were send-
ing convicts to colonies that desired to have them, and
discontinuing sending out convicts where the system was
objected to.
Mr. G. HAMILTON objected to the system of turn-
ing convicts loose among the colonies.
Colonel DUNNE was satisfied that transportation
must be returned to. Convicts were multiplying too
fast in the gaols at home. We must not shut our eyes
to the difficulty, and the Government must be prepared
to meet it. Many colonies would be glad to have con-
vict
labour, but that was no reason for forcing convicts
on the Van Diemen's Land colonists.
Mr. HENLEY said there were plenty of other colo-
nies to which convicts might be transported. He looked
with great alarm at the increase of eunvicts at home. It
was impossible convicts could get work in this country
as easily as. they would where their characters were not
known. Though a pledge might have been given that
convicts should not be sent to Van Diemen'a Land,
that was no reason why convicts should be kept at
home.
Mr. DUNCAN said many merchants of Van Diemen's
Land were about to leave the colony in consequence of
the system of sending convicts there. He earnestly
hoped Government would adopt measures to put an end
to this mischievous state of things.,
Mr. V. SMITH said Bermuda might be advanta-
geously resorted to as a colony to which to send our
convicts. He was sorry to see that the vote for free
emigration was diminished this year. He should have
preferred to see that vote increased.
Captain HARRIS considered a great mistake had
been originally made in establishing penal colonies. He
thought if we could enter into amicable arrangements
timwithoc do
colony, olonies willing to receive convicts, and at the same
wa ew should withud b
e t hgee
tsttiinggmeitaos
easily
y r
a colony
greatbeing
pa
opret
inoanl
of the existing difficulty. The impression was getting
abroad that transportation was to be discontinued, and
that the convicts were to serve out their punishment at
home. He thought Government should speak out on this
question, and not leave the country in a state of uncer-
tainty. He believed that many portions of our colonies
might be made available for the reception of convicts,
and without any stigma attaching to colonies consenting
to such an arrangement.
Mr. AGLIONBY admitted there was a large amount
of just complaint in Van Diemen's Land against the
further reception of convicts. From his experiencempon
these matters he looked with abhorrence at the introduc-
tion of these convicts Into Australia.
Lord J. RUSSELL sAd the Hon. Member for Oxford.

lion LATIOUCHERE said it was for '
13',17 connected with the Coramit.siont
printing ani sta-
avrCOBL)EN wished to ask the Hon. Member for
Pool in whAt form the bluebooks were in tuture to
t b'PublishPd? He had understood that the Committee
rc'coremended the octay.o form, and that its adoption
.Would save third ut !ha expense.
t, Lord 41010 N said the subject was under considers-
.l", but he believed the Hon. Member was mistaken In
''atiPpos Baying ing that the octavo form would be attended with
of expense. The octavo form had been tried in
"vlllO elate only by way 9f experiment.

L 0-14-13.0 N;

Mr. NAPIER—In the case I have mentioned there
were eighty Protestant c9nvicts on board.
The Cominictee teen divided, when there appeared—
For the vote
Against it ... ••• ... 9
Mojority ••• —B9
The vote was then agreed to, and the Chairman re-
ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on
The Stock in Trade Bill was read a second time.
The Loan Societies Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The Turnpike Trusts Arrangement Bill _was read a
second time.
The House adjourned at One o'clock.

THE BISHOP OF LONDON AND

SIR B. BALL.
The Bishop of London presents his compliments to
the Editor of the Times, and in order to show that the
Bishop has not "contented himself with a contemptuous
denial, and that only by implication, of the charge brough t
against him by Sir Benjamin Hull," he requests the
republication of a letter addressed by him to .fir. Goul-
burn, and reed by that Gentl.-ins.n to the House of Com-
mons on the 15to of July, 1850. Reference was made
io that letter in the Bishop's correspondence with Sir B.
Hall, published in the Times in March last.
Fulnana, July 5.

" London-house, July 11.
" My dear Mr. Goulburn,—ln the Times' rep in of the
debate on th,:. Eiolesiasleal Commission Bill on Monday
night, Sir Benjamin Hall is stated to have said, that,
the present inc )ine of one of the bishops, the Bishop
of L aidun, was 50,0001. a year. It was quite absurd to
adopt the bi.hop's own returns on the point.'
" The absurd exaggeration contained in this statement
is, perhaps, hardly worth while to notice. But the im-
putation cast upon my honesty I think it right to repel,
although I trust that my character is not such as to
render such an imputation credible.
" I should be much obliged to you if you would take
an opportunity of assuring the House of Commons that
the returns to which Sir B. Hall referred were strictly
correct, and contained an exact statement of the income
of my bishopric in the, years to which they relate.
" Sir B. Hall seems to think that I receive the whole
rents of the Paddington estate, whereas it is only one-
third of the ground rents which is paid to the bishop, the
other two-thirds being paid to the representatives of the
original lessees of the estate.
" Believe me, my dear Mr. Goulburn, yours moat truly,
" C. J. LONDON.
" The Right Hon. Henry Goulburn, M.P."

TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.
Sir,—The Bishop of London has addressed a commu-
nication to you. in which he embodies his letter of June,
1850, read to the House of Commons by Mr. Goulburn,
and in which also he refers to the correspondence which
took place between his Lordship and myself in March
last. That correspondence arose in consequence of a
desire on the part of my constituents that what his Lord-
ship calls " histrionic performances" in one of their
churches shou►d be discontinued, andl expressed their re-
gret thatwhilst his Lordship had promised, by letter dated
February, 1850, t•) write to the incumbent of the district
on the subject, he had never written one single hue from
that date to the end of February, 1851, when Mr. Hope
stated the fact in the House of Commons, and read his
Lordship's letter of February, 1850. The correspond-
ence then proceeded upon the amount of episcopal in-
come enjoyed by the Bishop of London, and as his Lord-
ship has ieterred to my letter, I beg to call the attention
of your readers to the principal passage contained in it.
The whole may be found in your paper of March 24,

185 t
" Mr. Murray, .secretary to the Ecclesiastical Coin-
missioners, Tbiii is a very fallacious return as
tue foundation of any inference respecting the actual in-
comes of the bishops. It is a return made by the,
bishops themselves, the net is struck from the gross by
themselves.' When Sir Benjamin Hall found the as-
sessment of Paddington had risen from 112,8681, in
1827,, to 191,154/, in, 1843, or an increase of 78,2861.,
whica increase was owing mainly to the additional
buildings upon the bishop's estates in that parish, .he
considered that he had come upon one of those fallacies
suggested by the secretary of the Commission. The
Bishop of London will therefore see that it was not Sir
Benjamin Hall, but that it was Mr. Murray who im-
pugned the veracity of the bishops, and who said not
only that the return was fallacious, but added, as if to
account for its incorrectness, that it was made by the
bishops themselves."
The assessment, of Paddington, in 1850, bad again
risen to the enormous sum of 343,0661., and I believe it
is now still .higher.
In consequence of the very unsatisfactory returns made
to the House of Commons, for the septennial period
ending 1843, I obtained an order for a return for the
last septennial period, which return was to show not
merely the various sources of income, but the items con-
stituting the difference between gross and net income.
From the former returns it appears that, in 1843, the
whole of the net income of the see was 12,4811., and in
the following :year (which I am obliged to take, as it is
the first in which Paddington estate is given separately),
the net income of that estate received by
.the Bishop is
shown to be 6,3761., so that the net income of the whole
of the rich see of London, exclusive of Paddington, was,
according to the Bishop's return, not more than 6,1051.
in the year 1843.
The income of the Paddington estate is now set down
(vide Epiaeop d Incomes 1850, Purl. Paper No. 400,
bessiou 1851) et 8,9411.
When the late Mr. Sidney Smith was asked—" What
do you suppose may be the amount of the Bishop of Lon-
don's income?" he replied, . " There is but one man
who knows." In 1836 the Bishop of London.was the
great obstacle to the payment of fixed incomes to the
bishops, and to the management of the property of the
sees being vested in the stands of a commission, and
such (as I understand) be still continues. But, not-
withstanding all his opposition, I believe the time is
coming when the laity will insist upon knowing the
exact value of the immense property of their church—
how it is leased, how it is managed, and how it is ap-
propriated. And I believe the debate of Tuesday last
has hastened the consummation of this long-desired and
legitimate *ubjeCt.
But as the Bishop of London has noticed an obsena-
Lion made in a leading article in your paper of Sa-
turday last, will his Lordship bo so good as to
answer the following very plain and intelligible
questions, which I put to the House of Commons on
Tuesday last, and which, therefore, his Lordship
has had ample time to consider? Oa Saturday, May 30,
1837, it was resolved by the epicopal body, that 10,000/.,
with two palaces, London;house and Fulham, was an
ample income to maintain the dignity of the see, and such
should be the income assigned to the see on the next
avoidance. If that sum was sufficient for the next
Bishop, why is it .net sufficient for the present Bishop?
Why has the Bishop, according to his own showing, re-
ceived in the last-fourteen years no less than a net sum
of 77,2594 over and above the income assigned to the
see? Aud why did he also, in 1848, appropriate to him-
self a net income of 23,9751,, being exactly 13,9754 more
than he declared was amply sufficient fur a Bishop of
London to enjoy? The income of the see in that year,
was nearly five times more than the salary of the Prime
Minister of this country, and 151 times more than the
income of one of the most industrious,, most meritorious,
and most zealous clergymen in the parish of St: James,
.n which his Lordship resides.
I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
B. HALL.
9, Great Stanhope-street, July 7, 1851.

shire locked with great apprehension at the numbers oi
convicts k-pt at home, and afterwards let loose upon
society. Other Hon. Members expressed great objections
to sendine couvicts to any of their colinfies. It would be
found difficult to send couvicta in any great number to
any part but Australia. He beliese,d the charge of
b each 01 faith made against the Noble Secretary for
the Colonies was wholly unfounded. The fact was this,
that in consequence, at one time, of so great a number
of convicts being sent to Van Diemen's Land it was
thought desirable to suspend sending out any more for
a time. The system of ticket-of-leave was subsequently
adopted; but there was nothing whatever to ground a
charge of breach of faith against the Noble Lord the
Secretary fur the Colonies. He (Lord J. Russell) be-
lieved that the instructions sent by the secretary of
State to that colony were mistaken by the governor. The
Noble Lord had expressed an expectation that the neces-
sity of sending convicts there would not continue; but the
expression of such an expectation was quite diff,rent from
the giving of any pledge upon which this charge ap-
peared to be founded. It was impossible to make a
sudden change in respect to transportation. The Hon.
Member for Montrose talked of waiting a few days for
furtht r advice from Van Diemen's Lint; but he did not
consioer the number of persons that were convicted and
now crowding their prisons. If the Committee should
come to the resolution to abolish trampartation they
must make some provision for the support of these con-
victs at home.—(Hea,r, bear.) Their maintenance in this
country would be attended
.with much expense and risk.
tie could only say he thought every means ought to be
taken, and he believed were being taken, to ascertain in
what part of Australia there would be a willingness to
receive convicts, and the number then that would be
sent there would be very much guided by that considera-
tion. He agreed in the opinion expressed that the send-
ing of a great number of convicts to a particular colony
did cause a great moral evil. He thought that the evil
of transportation was a good deal to be measured by the
extent
of the population amongst whom they were sent.
Where there was a great el, mend fur labour and the so-
ciety in a healthy state, no such evils as were appre-
hended might be produced; but where the state of things
was different no doubt much injury might arise.
After a few words from Mr. W. WILLIAMS,
Lord NAAS said it was quite evident that no more
convicts could be sent out to Australia except at a
great risk, as the inhabitants there, almost to a man,
...ere determined to oppose the introduction of any more.
E ART was ef opinion that all the poisonous
.a
vconcentrated
that portion of
and contaminating influence resulting from transporta-
tionone colony. But he
was
ssthroounlgdlynoint beir
o y
maintaining
n
their crimiuul law, as he was convinced that transporta-
tion was a sound system, well calculated to correct
criminals, as well as to punisb crime.
Mr. HUME was always in favour of transportation.
But what was their situation now? They had 10,060
convicts in their gaols, of which number it appeared that
1,550 were to go to Australia, contrary to the declared
wishes of the inhabitants, and the understood promise of
the Noble Lord 'the Secretary for the Colonies. He
compteined of throwing such a number of
convict
is upon
an infant colony. He did not oppo“) thii vote on the
ground of the expense to the country; on the contrary,
it the Government would pledge ti“ in,,elves not to send
these convicts to Van Di, men's Land, he would support
pp
a vote for double the amount. He would not, h
eowever,
egrets. to give Is. for the purpose of sending any mule
convicts to Australia-
Captain HARRIS quoted a speech made by Ear'
Grey upon secondary puniehmen,, for the purpose
shoving that the Not'le Earl heti admittt ,he ueces,
for the virtual abolition of the punishMent of trauqur.
tation.
Mr. NAPIER asked what the character of the reli-
gious in-.ruction was which aes to be given to these
convicts? lie wished to know whether r. ligiuus instruc-
tion was given impartially to the convicts of different
denominations, or whether, as in the case of a late con-
vict-ship in Kingstown, in Dublin, there was only reli-
gious instruction afforded to Roman Catholics, and none
at all to the Prt,t, stints that were on board.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that inasmuch as the con-
victs from Ireland were generally of the Roman Catholic
religion, it was must difficult to provide separate religious
instruction for the feiv othei convicts that formed So
small a minority.

CHEAP PIANO ES A DESIDERATUM.
• (From Eliza Cook's Journal.)
Wonderful is the display of splendid pianofortes in
the Exhibition of Industry ! In point of decoration
they are magnificent, and in variety of combination and
arrangement almost infinite. There are grand hori-
zontal rind grand upright pianoes, cottage and semi-
cottage, extra grand and transposing, double and quad-
ruple, new repetition pianoes, and all sorts of new adapta-
tions and contrivances, set forth ire all possible styles of
architecture, many of them extremely beautiful. But
it strikes us that the main thing is wanting, laid that
" the part of Hamlet is left out." While we admit the
desirableness of new inventions and improvements in
the piano, we must state that the groat popular want is
a cheap piano—an instrument so moderate in price as to
enable people of moderate means to possess themselves
of it. Heretofore. the piano has been too much a draw-
ing-room luxury, come-at-able only by comparatively
rich people. Expensive wood has been used, and
this has been highly decorated. Now, for
useful purpotes, plain fir deal, well-seasoned,
is much better fitted for the purpose of
piano casing than any other description of timber. No
other wood has been able to supersede fir in the con-
struction of . the violin—the finest toned of all instru-
ments. We believe pianoes of fir-casing have lately
come into use to a limited extent; but still the price is
too high; and there ought to have been a prise offered
and given for the constructor and exhibitor of the best
cheap piano at the Industrial Exhibition. We trust some
ingenious practical man will yet take up this subject,
and work it out; and whoever does so may be assured
there is a fortune in it. Thousands would purchase
pianoes for one who dce3 so now. The instrument
would supersede all others in the homes of the people;
for there is none that can compare with it for melLd),
tone, and fulness. We should rejoice to.see such an or-
chestra in every house in England, cultivating a refined
musical taste among the people, furnishing the ground-
work tor their household melody, and giving new attrac-
tions to home superior to those of the casino or the pub-
lic-house. Possibly, we may not be able to secure;pianoes
sufficiently cheap--say at ten pounds, or thereabouts—
without the aid of machinery. But a machine, or set of
machines. to form pianoes, would create an entirely new
branch of industry, and give employment to many more
thousands of hands, as fitters tuners, teachers, and so on,
e f
than are now engaged in the piano-tasking trade. Be-
look at the immense national benefit of an orches-
tra inevery house—melodyarriving
at the
everyinC pPiano,
he Cheaply .
, only reeret that it has nut been Weand do
not yet despair we
made a feature in the
ef I Grand Exhibition.
Isity

-
ACCIDENT IN 'ROTTEN ROW.—Yesterday an ad.
journed inquiry as td the death of Mrs. Sophia Martin, aged
66, the widow of a retired licensed victualler, which occurred
through being run over by a lady in Rotten-row, on the 6th
of June last, was concluded by Mr. Bedford, at St. George's
Hospital. Baldwin, the constable, informed the court that
he had not been able to discover any trace of who the lady
was. Mr. Richard Hoare, 17, Whitehall-place, East India
merchant, stated that he was riding with Mr. Reid, at the
time of the accident, in Rotten-row, and was about parallel
with the lady, and, as far as he could observe, the deceased
ran towards the lady's horse as she was cantering along, and
she was knocked down. ' Neither he nor Mr. Rid knew
who the lady was. -A crowd collected, and the lady and
gentleman, who was with her, came back, and having coolly
looked at the deceased for about two minutes, then rode
away. He rode after them to ask her to come back, for he
never saw such an unfeeling act in his life. He had been in
the park every day with Mr. Reid, in the hopes of seeing the
lady, but had not been successful.—Ellen Thomas, daughter
TI4E GREAT MEDALS.—It is to be hoped that of the deceased, and who was with her at the time, said there
suchlt is.want
, and the
British jurors will not allow their desire to deal liberally the
with was. plenty of room for her mother to have got across if the
tbei- foreign coadjuters to lead them into injustice. lady had not whipped her horse at the moment, and as the
was
her
sheael whado thenel:ene no
was, controlheaxd. overesnh n
abandonment of the feeling of nationality is all very well, horse knocked down. The Coroner said it was to be re-
indeed very desirable, but then it should take place on all gretted that t
one
lady,
inadvertentl •
of feeling: if h person injured another,
sides, or the liberal country will suffer in the eyes of Europe
An bridle
a was shown, but here3'
hereafter, the circumstances being unknown. It is nonce n, some sYnliW :
to talk of delicacy as opposing allusion to this question,
when it is well known out of doors that the various jurors, none.—The jury returned a verdict of accidental death.
INSTITUTE OF ACTUARIES.—The following gentle-
of one foreign country have meetings to communicate results,' men having passed tbeir examination in the "Doctrine
and are working conjointly to one me If, moreover, it', of Probabile ies, ' and the "Theory and Practice of Life Assu.
should happen that same of the jurors of any one partka arrands;' have received certificates of competency as duly
side should prefer to see their country discredited rather; qualified actuaries ), viz. :—Edward
than a rival distinguished, the game of those who aryl, (alphabetically arranged
eheshire, London • Christian Child, London; Alexander
striving for national credit pill be greatly etrenitheeed.—e Colvin, Londdn; 'lames Meikle, Edinburgh; go Henry
Builder. ' 1 Thoinp4on,jtui.,Atercleen.