The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-24 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 24, 1851.

FRANCE.
EPIDEMIC AMONG CATTLE.
The grippe, cholera, and other disagreeable epidemics,
have disappeared for a time; but, en revanche, a most
virulent epidemic, which bears strong analogy to the cho-
lera, has b'en decimating several classes of the inferior
animals. Like the cholera, this formidable disease cuts off
the strongest subject in an hour, and is characterised
by prostration, stupor, specific diarrhea's, blue colour
of the skin, and general injection of the alimentary canal,
especially the small intestine. The disease, whatever
it may be. is highly virulent, and in a most extraor-
dinary degree contagious. Every fibre, every drop of
fluid in an animal eat off by the complaint, is capable
of transmitting the original disease. Even a drop of the
squeous humour, inserted beneath the skin of a healthy
animal, gives the malady. The symptoms, howe►er,
are considerably modified according to the class or
even species of animal; and as the morbific cause re-
mains the same, an opportunity is offered of studying the
comparative effects of the same pathological cause in dif-
ferent classes of animals. This interesting study has been
taken up by several members of the Academy of Medicine,
who are now performing an extensive series of inocula-
tions. In the south of France the " sweating sickness"
has again broken out with coasiderable violence, and as
this curious malady was a precursor of the cholera in
1849, great alarm has been ocossioned, the more espe-
cially that the disease has proved fatal in several cases.
M. Aligne. ax inspector-general of hospitals, with a
strong staff, has been dispatched, to render assistance
and report on the sanitary condition of the affected lo-
calities. Many of them have been completely aban-
doned by the inhabitant.; the middle ages still exist in
various parts of France, and, indeed, among ourselves
likewise.

CHLOROFORM AS AN ANAESTHETIC.
The local use of chloroform or of the chloruretted
hydrochloric ether, is becoming more general here .very
day, and is now almost universally substituted for opiate
or other calming lotions. The quantities, however, dif-
fer from those employed on your side of the Channel, at
least if I may judge from an English prescription,
now before me, in which two minims of chloroform to
an ounce of water are ordered. This homeopathic dose
could produce little or no effect upon any severe pain.
The " Dutch liquor" is preferable to chloroform as a local
agent, and it is not impossible, seeing the progress of
modern chemistry, that some other substance of supe-
rior qualities may be brought to light. Thus M. Ed-
ward Robin, one of our most industrious chemists, has
discovered that hydrobromic ether possesses anaesthetic
properties of a valuable kind. it has no acrid or
caustic savour ; its odour is not disagreeable ; it
render animals rapidly insensible, without apparently pro-
ducing any unpleasant effects. Those of chloroform, as is
well known, are sometimes dangerous, and often of a
curious kind. We had an example, not long ago, at one
of our hospitals here. The subject was a poor
priest, doomed to amputation of the leg for gangrene.
He was chlorified, and reduced to a state of strange in-
toxication, during which the language of the holy man
was anything but edifying. His expressions, in fact,
became so immoral, that it was almost impossible to
complete the operation amid the laughter of the assis-
tants.—Medical Times.

CURIOUS CASE.

A curious case was a few days ago submitted to the
Court of Assizes of the department of Morbihan. Three
men named Patre, B net, and Ruello were tried for hav-
ing attempted to sell what is called $ " Secret of the
State" to the English Government. It appeared from
the indictment that in the port of Lorient there is an
establishment for the manufacture of a peculiar descrip-
tion of cannon balls for the navy of a very dangerous
nature, called boalets asphysians. Pere was employed
in the making of these bails, and Binet was also em-
ployed in the port. In November and December last
they got leave of absence, and went, with Buell°, who is
a baker, to London. Ruello supplied the fends. It was
immediately rumoured, from some observations they
had made, that they bad gone to England to sell the
secret of making these balls to the English Government,
and it was ascertained that Binet and Ruello had had Ire-
q tient communications with the Englsh Consul at Lorient.
These two men bad also caused an application to be
made to a notary named Le Bobinec for an advance of
4,000 f, and promised to pay him 25,000 f. for it. They
then said that they were going to England to sell a
secret for making balls which would bring them several
millions. Pa re was also heard to make a similar state-
ment to Binet's wife. Oa arriving in London they, ac-
e )mpanied by an interpreter, went to the Board of Ad-
miralty. Their proposition was favourably received, and
they were sent down to Portsmouth that experiments !night
be made with their secret. The experiments lasted 15
days, and took place on board the Excellent, Captain
Cheds. The Captain a report to the Admiralty was not
sufficiently favourable to induce it to purchase the secret;
nevertheless, an indemity of 1,200 f. (481.) was awarded
to the men. They bad demai,ded 4 000 f. They then
attempted to sell the secret to the Ambassador of Russia
and to the American Consul, but both declined to accept
it. The three men passed some time at London, and
when their money was exhausted they fell into misery.
In August last Petra returned to France and enlisted
into a regiment at St. Omer, but he was recognised and
arrested. Binet and Ruello arrived at Boulogne in No-
vember, and were arrested. The accused, on being inter-
rogated by the Court, denied that they had been to Eng-
land to sell the secret; but, in addition to the above facts,
it appeared that reports of the police who had watched
them in L radon, and their own correspondence with their
families, stated the contrary. It was also shown that
Petre knew part of the secret from being employed in
making the hullo's, and that he had got the rest of it
by examining the papers of Colonel Thou renin. the di-
rector of the manufactory. The jury, however, after
hearing the evidence and pleadings, returned a verdic
of " Not guilty" in favour of all the accused.

LAW INTELLIGENCE.
COURT OF EXCHEQUER, Jung 23.
;Sittings in Middlesex, at Niel Prins, after Trinity Term,
before Mr. Baron MARTIN and Common Juries.)
111.GLEY P. BAILEY.
Mr. Greenwood and Mr. Raymont conducted the case
for the plaintiff, and Mr. Sergeant Wilkins, with Mr.
Joyce, appeared for the defendant.
This was an action by which the plaintiff, who was re-
presented as a dressmaker, sought to recover compensa-
tion is damages for an assault alleged to have been com-
mitted upon her by the defendant, a gentleman connected
with the Stock Exchange.
The defendant plcsied not guilty, and that although
he had made the tieseult, still that he had not used a
greater amount of violence than was necessary to pre-
vent the plaintiff from forcing her way into his cham-
bers. It appeal ed that the plaintiff, whom, it was stated,
earned her livelihood as a dressmaker, lied met the de-
fendant at the Holborn Casino and at Caldwell's Danc-
ing Rooms in D an-street, Soho. In the course of time
an intimacy took place between them, which in the end,
as the plaintiff contended, led to her becoming enceinte
by the defendant. She had been accustomed, as the
evidence went to show, to visit the defendant at his
chambers, first in Leicester-square, then in Fur-
miace it was that the alleged assault was said to have
val'a-inn, and lastly in Gray's-inn, and at this last
pbaeeidn
aCnOnmorilyiintlgedv.isitFsotro athleendgetfhenodlantitme the
upploanintoiffnehad
oc-
casion when she called in 'Leicestor-square sbo told
the defendant that she wanted o
carriage down to _Exeter, where she
money to pay her
w
mother for the purpose of being a goad
girl. going OneOne of to'
her
witnesses for the defendant stated that he Was the
pre
this particular visit, and added that the defendant Lad
sad
said, if she really were going home to live as a good
girl. if she would call upon him the next morning be
would give her the necessary auto to pay her fare to
Exeter. Some time since the plaintiff went to the de-
/
fendant's chambers in Gray's-inn at a time when he had
a gentleman of the name of Cooper taking coffee with
him, and upon that occasion, in the first instance, she
had pulled the bell with groat violence. The defendant
went to see who it was, and on op, nine the door the
plaintiff attempted to force her way into the chamber..
This the defendant resisted, whereupon the plaintiff
assailed him with a volley of abuse The deteneeet
thereupon called ont to his friend Cooper to go and
fetch a policeman. However, without the aid of that
personage, the defendant at length succeeded in shutting
the door, leaving the plaintiff on the landing-place. The
plaintiff was not to be filed, and therefore she soon re-
commenced her attack upon the bell, which attack, as
one of the witnesses for the defendant said, must
have lasted as long as half an hour at least, sworn_
panied by abuse. The defendant, with his friend, ulti-
mately went to the door a second time, and the door was
no sooner opened than the plaintiff, more violently than
before, tried
to effect an entry into the (Members. Of
course this fresh effort was resisted with increased vigour
on the part of the defendant, who kept hold of the door,
and opposed her entrance with his body. The defendant
ultimately forced her back, when she called out, " Cary,
he has kicked me; came up " A woman, whose name
subsequently proved to be Mrs. Stephenson, thereupon
came up from the lower landing, and soon afterwards the
plaintiff fell down. The defendant then closed the door.
Evidence Was given to show that the plaintiff was near
her confinement at the time of the alleged assault, and
that what had caused her to fall had been a kick, from
which she had sustained her injuries. The witness Ste-
phenson said that had it not been for her assistance the
plaintiff would not have been able either to rise from the
place where she had fallen in consequence of a kick, or to
regain her home. That evening the plaintiff suffered
great pain, and she was compelled to foment her stomach,
and on the next morning medical advice became requi-
site. For these injuries and results l • If
the p sant now
claimed compensation.
On behalf of the defendant it was urged that there
had been no kick given by that gentlemen; and that in
truth there had been no more force used to prevent the
plaintiff from effecting an entry into the chambers than
was absolutely necessary. And then as to the claim of the
Plaintiff upon him, as the father of the child of which she
was delivered in April last, it was contended that there
was no more claim npen that gentleman than there was
upon any other particular individual, seeing that she was
ILA a modest woman.
YVitaesses were called, who proved that the defendant
"td not kick the plaintiff, that she was a frequenter of
0331110 es and other dancing rooms, and that the defendant
was not the Oiladmitted to the
closest f
~. • y person who had been
arnioarities with .
Mr. Geezewo replied • I
OD at consielerab e length.
Mr. Baron
411
s
looking at ~1 TIN left it to the jury to say whether,
Placed before them,
whole of the evidence which had been
them, they were satisfied that there had
been a greater atnount of force used by the defendant to
plaintiff from •
his chambers, in the way and
under the
was fairly circumstancesand
dre which they had heard, than
case it would be tat:onably necessary. If so, then in that
a elf. duty to find a verdict for the plain-
tiff with such an
she was en amount
of damages as they might con-
sider The jury, after some o.
i et
COUSULtGraOII returned a verdict
for the plaintiff--duaages 104 P

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
MANSION-HOUSE.
The conductor of an omnibus was charged by the so-
licitor to the Excise with having taken passengers into
his carriage and driven into the city from the West-end
without having a licence. The driver and conductor
are, in cases of this kind, considered to be both liable to
heavy penalties under the sth and 6th Victoria.
Mr. Lewis, of Ely-place, appeared for the defendant.
G. W. Shaw (officer of Excise) said, at four in the
afternoon I saw the defendant driving an omnibus which
had no plates. Th• vehicle was full inside, and there
were nine or ten outside. The defendant went along a
devious route through Leicester-square, Long-acre,
Drury-lane, Wych-street, and Temple-bar to Cheapside,
and plied fur passengers all the way. I went into the
omnibus and paid 6d.
Mr. Lewis admitted that the plates wore not exhibited,
but said he could show that their absence was caused by
mere accident, and that there had been upon the part of
the defendant no intention to evade the duty or to vio-
late the law for any purpose whatever.
A coachman who had driven tee omnibus on the day
before that on which the complaint was made, said as
he was driving along on the former day he observed
that one of the horses had a wound upon it which ren-
dered it unfit for such work, and he accordingly unhar-
nessed it, and sent it home to the depot. at the same
time removing the plates from the oinnibu-, to show that
he could not take any passenger; that next day, by the
merest accident and in the immense hurry of business
arising from the Great Exhibition, he had forgotten to
put in the plates and happened to come in the way cf
the Excise effiuer, who, finding that there was an over-
sight upon the part of the servants of the omnibus pro-
prietor, was determined to prosecute the case.
Mr. Bateman (from the office of the solicitor to the
Excise) submitted that all that was necessary was to
prove the violation of the Act of Parliament, end that
had been distinctly proved.
Mr. Lewis submitted that a magistrate in convicting
under such circumstances would decide in opposition to
the spirit and meaning of the Act altogether, which
never was made to punish an accidental omission.
Mr. Bateman said if excuses were to be allowed in
such cases there would be plenty at hand upon all oc-
casions. If the magistrates were to listen to such apo-
logies for missing plates as that they had been lost or
stolen, why they would be lost and stolen every day,
and there would be no use in an Aot of Parliament at all
upon the subject.
The Loan MAYOR—No doubt of it. I convict the de-
fendant in the penalty of 101. He may, if he please, pe-
tition the Board of Excise in mitigation, but I have no-
thing to do with that part of the question.
The defendant requested to be allowed to go out and
procure the 101.; but
The Loan MAYOR said it was his duty to see the pe-
nalty paid, or to sentence the defendant to imprisonment
fur three months. He wished all persons connected
with omnibuses to be very cautious in attending to the
Acts by which their carriages were regulated, as he and
his brother magistrates had determined to let ❑o case
which might be proved before them escape with im-
punity.
The defendant paid the 101. penalty, and said that he
would petition the Board of Excise in mitigation.
WORSHIP-STREET.
Michael Butler, a powerful fellow, of notorious cha-
racter, was placed at the bar for final examination, be-
fore Mr. Tyrwhitt, charged with having broken into the
dwelling-house of Mr. Henry Bateman, a wheelwright,
in Holy well-lane, Shoreditch, and with having also
assaulted and wounded the prosecutor, with intent to
murder him.
The offence was committed on the 10th of February
last, when the prosecutor, on returning home from an
evening party at a late hour, discovered the prisoner
and anintier man secreted at the rear of the premises,
both of whom instantly set upon him, and after beating
him unmercifully with the butt-end of a horse-pisiul and
life-preserver, with which they were respectively armed,
and inflicting numerous severe wounds about his head
and other parts of his person, succeeded in Of. cting
their escape over the rota of some adjoining out-houses,
and had ever since eluded pursuit until about ten days
since, when the prisoner was traced by the police and
taken into custody.
The depositions of the several witnesses having been
completed and read over,
The prisoner was next charged with having been con-
cerned, with another man not in custody, in the follow-
ing murderous assault and robbery upon an aged widow,
named Elizabeth Hussey, living in Mulberry-court,
Wh• techapel.
The prosecutrix stated that at about five o'clock in
the evening of the 19th April lest, the prisoner, who was
accompanied by another man, called at her house, and
stated that they required the attendance of her son, who
is an itinerant musician, with his violin at a rand which
was to come off that evening, and that he would receive
ss. for hia services. She invited them into the parlour
to receive their directions, as her son was not at home,
and one of the men having insisted upon providing some
liquor, another woman who was with her was sent for it,
and as soon as she had left the prisoner inqu►red if there
was any other person in the house, which she answered
in the negative, and then asked her her age, which she
told him was 65. The instant the words were uttereu
the prisoner sprang upon her and grasping her by the
throat, flung her down upon the fluor, where he held her
fast while the other man forced his hand down the
bosom of her dress, from which he abstracted a bag con-
taining two sovereigns and a quantity of sil►er, with
which he er,caped ieto the street; but the prisoner con-
tinued holding her down, and compressed her throat
with such violence that she entirely lost her senses. She
did not recover consciousness till nine o'clock in the even-
ing, when she felt herself in a state of extreme suffering
and experienced all the effects of strangulation, which
confined her to her bed, where she remained for a con-
siderable period under medical attendance.
A married woman named Rosina Flaherty, who was
present at the time referred to by the last witness, was
also examined, and gave similar positive evidence to the
prisoner being one of tho men who had perpetrated the
outrage.
Fornsal evidence of former convictions was then given
by a retired police sergeant of the G division, named
Cross, who was present at the prisoner's trial and con-
viction for highway robbery in October, 1846, at the
Central Criminal Court, when he was sentenced to seven
years' transportation, which was afterwards commuted
to twelve months' imprisonment; and also of a second
conviction for felony, and sentenced to a similar period
of incarceration in the month of January, 18411.
The prisoner, who reserved his defence, was fully Com-
mitted for trial upon the first charge, but was ordered to
be again brought up in a week for the completion of the
depositions in the second case.

TRAMES.
C♦PTURE OF ♦ BORGLAR.--John Shaw, carver, 3,
We;t-street, Globe-fields, 23 years, was charged with
loitering about Washington-street, Bow-common, with
intent to commit a felony.
As he was talking to Mills, 30 C, a detective officer,
on Saturday evening, Sergeant Smith, 28 K, also a de-
tectivo, detained him, as he was well known, to see what
he had, and telt his pocket, which evidently contained
keys, whereupon the fellow snatched away his cow,
threw off his hat, and took to his heels. Finding he
gained ground, the sergeant called out "Stop thief!"
when a man dressed es a butcher caught him by the
Elephant and Castle—a distance of nearly half a mile.
The street was a very dull one, through which you
would scarcely meet a person passing in an hour. At
daylight next morning Sergeant Smith and Mills found
six skeleton keys and a "jemmy" withi❑ ten 3 ards of
where the prisoner bad been stopped. Sergeant Smith
heard a rattle as of keys during the chase. A person
who bad engaged the prisoner, not knowing his cha-
racter, had been robbed of 201. or 301., but the offence
could not be brought home. Nineteen duplicates had
been found at his lodgings.
Mr. Pelham, for the defence. cross-examined the
officers with great dexterity, hut could not elicit anything
favourable to the prisoner, and
Mr. Imatiest sentenced him to three months' hard
labour, directing Nwgeant Smith to see to the duplicates,

SEABORNE MAILS.
[N signifies that the mails are sent from the General Poet-offer
by the night—and Mby the morning—dispatch.]

When made up In From what
PLA.CES. General Post-aloe port din. When
London. patched. due.
41.1•••••••,....... .............,...,.,,,,...... , ....................
America (by Brit. pkt.) N Jane 27 .. .. Liverpool • • July 5
America (by U.S. pkt.) N
•• •• Liverpool • July 2
America (by U.S. pkt.) 51 July 2 •• •• S3outtuunpt. June 26
Africa (West coast).. N 14th of the month Plymouth July 3
Alexandria* • • ...... N 19112 & 30th of mo. Dover .. June 28
Belgium • . .. .. N Daily .. .• .. I)over .. Daily
Brasil .. • .. 51 9th of the month Sonthampt. July 12
Buenos Ayres .. .. Al 9th of the month Southampt. July 13
Callfornia(viaChagree)sl 2d & 17th of month Southampt. July 5
Cape of Good Hope N 14th of month Plymouth.. Ju y 3
Constantinople' .. •• N 7th 17th 27th of mo Dover .. .1 une 30
Central America .. Id 2d k 17th °limn Southampt. July 6
Channel Wes .. .. NiMon., Wed.. & Fri. Southampt. Tit Th.da
Chill .•
.. .. .II 17th of the month Southiunpt. jJuly 20
France . .. .. M& N Twice daily .. *.. Dover .. 'Tv/modally
Greece* •• .. .. N 7th 17th27th of mo Dover •• June JO
Hamburgh .. .. N Tuesday & Friday London .. T. Sat
Molland .. •• .. MWednes. & Satan Louden .. sfiiuTkri
Honduras .. .. . Ni 17th of the month Southampt. July 20
Ireland .. •• M& Ni Twice daily .. .. ill., olyhmul .• 'I wicedaily
i
India
(viaa(vasSroatirsetlitnamespi) 3lN'72loht,th oufththiermatoonnththllsoonrtheratap.t: i
July July :3
Ifediterranean (via i
Southampton) • • 3L,2oth of the month Sonthampt. July 23
fediterronean (via /
Marseilles) .. .. N7th&l4tls ofmonth!Dover - ••July I
Nalco •• •• •• 312 d of the month..lSouthampt. July 5
.iitiaclteat.ra
.... ...• .....2ff 17.9atthhioonfthttilho,eir9mnithoo,nn2ttphthiloputhoyaemr pt.
J.T_unul y 12 e
_23

France M&N
Greece*
Hamburgh N
Holland ~ ..
Honduras , . N 1
Ireland .. 34 &Ni
India (via Sonthamp.)
India (via Marseilles)
Mediterranean (via
Southampton) • • it _
Mediterranean (via
Marseilles) N!7th&24tii ofmonth,
Mexico 312 d of the month..
kladeira • • • • .. If,9th of the month '
Malta* .• •• X filth,l7th,l9th,27th,
&30th of month
Naples* Nisth 15th 25th ofmo Dover .. IJuly 2
Papal states* N,511115th 25th ofmo'llover ,July
Peninsular.. .. M; 7th 17th 27th of ow Southampt. ;Ju ne 26
Peru .. 31.17 th of the month ,Southamot. I.Tuly 20
Tuscany* N sth 15th 25th of mo'Dover .. :July 2
West Indies .. 31117t3 of the month iSoutharapt. July 20
West Indies (except
Havanna & Nassau) M 2d of the month .. iSouthanapt. /July 5

* The mails to those countries thus marked (0) are conveyed by
French racket ir! 4 Marseilles.
CaLzroama.—Malls to and Prom California, ria the United States
are now despatched and due by every American packet.

THE LANGUAGE OF YOUNG L.ADIES.—_The Rev.
ScPol belt', in an address befo,e the Sewburyport Femile
ho, which has been published, enlarged upon the use
A. ea
of exaggerated, extravagant forms of speech,—saving
splendid for ',etre, magnificent for handsome, horrid. or
bt
rheeaya
thha had met
ea
pe
s7hitand
horrible for unpleasant, immense for large, thousands or
myriads for any number more than two. " Were I," he
says, " to write down, for one day, the conversation of some
young ladies of my acquaintance, and then to interpret it
literally, it would imply that, within the compass of twelve
digressing mpaorsseedmt
experiences, had seen more imposing spectacles,
ahrrvoeulglohusmaodre.
had endured more fright, had enjoyed more rapture, than
would suffice for half a dozen common lives."
ventures endfourteenhours, h ai r
The shipments of specie by the GangPs, which left for India on Friday, amounted to 81,0001. With the excep-
tion of 18,000/.. for Alexandria, and ,frool, in gold for Ceylon,
being in bars an
the whole was silver, 55,4001. d (1014,3 for
4
Bombay, 5,6001, for Calcutta, cad 2,10i11. for Cl tin

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 23.
The Lonn CLtNcaLLoR took his seat upon the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock,
SANITARY STATE OF THE METROPOLIS.
The Bishop of LONDON wished to draw the atten-
tion of the Government to the sanitary state of the me-
tropolis, and to the necessity that existed for giving
effect to the laws existing on the subject, and to the in-
troduction of (rash legislative measures.
The Earl of CARLISLE said that the attention of
the Government was directed to the subject.
HIGHWAYS (SOU CH WALES) BILL.
On the motion that this Bill be read a third time,
Viscount HEREFORD opposed the third reading, as
it was an exceptional Bill, introducing a species of le-
gislation for Wales different from that which existed in
England. He reeved that the Bill be read a-third time
that day six moethe.
The Earl of CAWDOR defended the enactments of
the Bill. Experience had shown that such enactments
were needed.
Viscount HEREFORD explained.
The Duke of RICHMOND supported the Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE hoped their Lord-
ships would pass this measure.
The Bill was tlen read a third lime and passed.
APPEALS.
Lord LYNDHURST moved that it be referred to the
Committee for Privileges to consider and report what
ftothbee Master of the Rolls and other Judges of the
cerypursued for Obtaining the attendance and ad-
course, having regard to the privileges of this House,
of Chan a
evo
ice of
hrott
He considered tha the on the hearing of appeals, &e.Bill which had been introduced
into the other Hove for the reform of the Court of
Chancery affected the privileges of their Lordships'
House. fie understood that Bill had been drawn up by
his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, and it
did him honour; he considered that Bill would enable
his Noble and Learned Friend to get rid of arrears
in the Court Chancery, It also provided
for the attendance of quite,judge in their Lordships'
House to be consulted in appeals. He had himself been
always in favour of such a measure, and he was sure
that the propositiot would meet with, the approbation
of the country at large ; but it would be for the
Committee of Pivileges to determine how such
attendance could be obtained. Certain he was, it
ought not to be obtained through the medium
of a Bill introduced snto the other House of Parliament.
Such a course would be a direct invasion of their Lord-
ships' privileges. He therefore proposed that the matter
should be referred to a Committee of Privileges, so as to
have the question determined before the Bill should come
up from the other Rouse. He admitted that it was most
desirable to secure the attendance of equity; judges in
their Lordships' House when their Lordenips were hear-
ing appeals, but tist advantage ought to be secured
without any infringement of the rules of their Lord-
ships' House. Tie judges of the courts of equity
were all Privy Councillors, and he proposed that in con-
' formity with ancient practice, write of summons should
be issued to them, commanding them to attend their
Lordships' House, eR had formerly been issued to all
Privy Councillors. Whether that writ should be issued
by their Lordship' at once, or whether a short Bill
should be introduced into their Lordships' Howse,
wag a question which he would not take upon himself te
determine; all he eould do would be to move that the
question be referred to a Committee of Privileges.
The LORD CHANCELLOR would not oppose the
motion. He had drawn up the Bill with great
care, and with Ise utmost anxiety not to in
fringe upon the privileges of their Lordships' House.
The enactments of tie proposed Bill merely placed the
equity judges upon the same footing with regard to
attendance on their Lordships as the common law
judges.
Lord LYNDHURST had no objection to the clause,
he only wished to prevent any infringement of the
privileges of their Lordships' House.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Bill only gave
the power of summoning the equity judges.
Lord LYNDHURST repudiated the idea of the House
of Commons giving their Lordships power.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE considered it was a
wise course in the other House to introduce clauses to
make a Bill intelligible. Those clauses neither had the
intention nor had they violated the privileges, because
their Lordships could not say what would be the effect
of awe clauses until the Bill should be before their
Lordships.
Lord STANLEY vindicated the course taken by his
Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst). The
atteement of the Noble Marquis that it was not intended
to pass the clause in the other House was all that his
Noble Friend contens'ed for.
The Duke of RICHMOND maintained that the House
of Lords bed the right to originate money clauses. lie
hoped that the clause would not be retained in the Bill,
as he should not wish the Bill to be thrown out.
The Marquis of LANSDOsVNE said that care would
be taken that it should be excluded.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped the example they were
about to set would not be followed by the ocher House of
Parliament in a similar case. When a Bill with money
clauses was sent down to the House of Commons what,
however. did they de? They were nut very likely to
refer it to a committee of inquiry to ascertain if it was
en infringement of their privileges; they were more
likely to take it for granted that it was an interference
with those privileges. With respect to the important
aubj-ct of the attendance of the Vice-Chancellors at the
Reese he felt more strongly the advantage of that ar
rangement. Nothing could be more entirely in accord-
ance with his views than to have the attendance of the
equity judges. As connected with the appellate juris-
dictiou of the House he wished the matter had been in-
treduced at an earlier period.
Lord LYNDHURS r did not want to defeat the
clause, but to deal with it in a proper and constitutional
manner.
Lord BROUGHAM thought they ought also to'call
in the judges of the Scotch courts in Scotch appeals:
The motion was agreed to.
EPISCOPAL AND CAPITULAR ESTATES.
The Earl of CARLISLE moved that leave be given
to the petitioners, praying to be heard by counsel
against the Episcopal and Capituler Estates' Manage-
ment Bill, to be heard before the Select Committee on
the Bill (whose petitions were presented on the 15th,
16th, 19th, 22d of May, and 2d, 6th, and 19th of this
instant June).
Lord PORTMAN said that the course proposed by
the Noble Earl was unusual, and opposed to the rules of
the House. Nothing could be more fatal to the passing
of an important measure, in accordance to the princi-
ples of sound justice, than to hoar the antagonistic dis-
cussions of counsel, who were instructed by those having
extreme views on the subject, and as a precedent it
would be highly ineonvenient; for it they cdmi:ted
counsel in those cases why not admit them in the case
of any other future petitioners? He should say non-con-
tent to the motion,
After some conversation, in which the Earl of liar-
rowby, the Bishop of Salisbury, the Duke of Richmond,
and ether Noble Lords trok part,
The Earl of CARLISLE consented, at the suggestion
of the Bishop of Salisbury, to withdraw his motion,
which was thereupon withdrawn accordingly.
The Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND presented a
petition against the navigation-laws from shipowners; and
others.

REGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES BILL.
The amendments of the report ou this Bill were agreed
to, the clause relating to maps, on the suggesion of Lord
Lyndhurst, being omitted. The Bill was ordered to he
r- ad a third tirn,-, to-morrow (this ri
VETERINARY SURGEONS' EXEMPTION BILL.
This Bill psmsed tnrou,..h Committee.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COM .3i OPIS, June 23
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Fuur o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINES.
The Lords' amendments to the following Bills were
considered and agreed to:—
Dundee and Arbroath Railway.
Liverpool Docks ( Alteration of Management, &a.)
Monklend Railways.
The following Bills were road a third time and passed;
Brighton Extramural Cemetery.
Caledoniatpßeilway (Motherwell Branch Extension and
Losbulabagow Branches).
London (City) Sewers.
Shrewsbury and Birmingham Riil way.
IitIETRUPOLI FAN WATER BILL.
Mr. MOW A..r l' gave notice that to-morrow he should
move, in the case of the Metropolitan Water Supply Bill,
that the standing orders be dispensed with, and in the
event of the House agreeing to that motion, he should
move that the Bill be read a second time.
PETITIONS.
Several petitions were presented against the Eccle-
siastical Titles Bill,
Sir BOBER r HARRY INGLI-; presented a petition
team Edinburgh, slimed by the Lord Provost, by the
Moderator of the Gent•ral A•semnly of the Establiehed
Church, by the Mod,r &tor of the Generel Assembly ut
the Free Church, by 272 ministers, and by 4 877 other
persons in Edinburgh and its vicinity, against the ad-
mission of Jews into Parliament.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from Glasgow'
against the Public-houses (Scotland) Bill.
Mr. Ii ARBER presented a petition from Stockton-
on-Tees in favour of national arbitration.
Mr. SCULLY presented a petition frota the millers
of Tipperary, complaining of the importation of foreign
Sour.
Several petitions were presented in favour of and
against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.
SEW ER AGE IN sr. JAMES'S.
Sir DE LACY EVANS put a question to Viscount
Ebringtou, why the sewerage works in St. James's,
Westminster, promised to be executed last year, have
not been, up to the present time, execwed or commenced;
and whether the suns of about 120,000/, proposed to be
levied by a rate of sixpence in the pound, on the
northern side of the Thames, is intended to coy r
existing liabilities or to execute new works; and, if
partly for the fue.mer purpose, how much of that,
sum ,s proposed to be so appropriated; and whether it is
intended, its has bt ea reported, that the parti, a retidieg
iu the streets o: localities in St. Jatnes's, hitherto left
without any sewerage, shall be subject to a special rate
in addition to the rate of sixpence in the pound now in
course of collection.
Lord EBBING TON said that the reason why the
works had nut been finished was, that it had been fuuud
impossible to borrew mere than 10,000/., which sum was
not sufficient to complete all the works. With regard to the
sum of 120,000 L, a great part of it was to be applied to
new works and part of it to the defraying of the current
zpwas true that a special rate was
teobeenlseevieditn certainly
thmaaner proposed by Act of Parlia-
ment.

WATER SUPPLY.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE called the attention of the Right
Hon. Baronet the lioaae Secretary Le au actrertiseraent

in the Times newspaper of this morning, containing a
prospectus of a proposed water company, in which it
was stated that the Government did not intend to offer
any opposition to the Water Bill, which had been lately
read a second time in the House of Commons and re-
ferred to a Select Committee. lie wished to ask the
Right Hon. Gentleman whether any such assurance had
been given by the Government?
Sir G. GREY said the statements made in the adver-
tisement were wholly unauthorised. No communication
which could justify the assertion had payed between
the Government and the secretary of the proposed com-
pany.
__ _

THE CORPORATION OF LONDON.
Sir B. HALL moved for a return of the num-
ber and names (;f the different wards within the
city of London, with the number of aldermen and corn-
mon-councilmen ; of the number of persons rated
to the relief of the poor in each parish within the
city of Louden; of the number of persons on the
register of Parliamentary electors for the several
years from 1645 to 1851, distinguishing livery.
men from householders; and of the number of persons
on the register of municipal electors for aldermen and
common councilmen, from 1845 to 1851 (each ward to
be given separately).—Agreed to.
KIf,RUSH AND ENNISTYMON UNIONS.
Mr. REYNOLDS wished to know why the returns
ordered on the 11th of April in regard to Kdrush and
Ennistymon Unions, had not been laid on the table?
Sir G. GREY said he would communicate with Sir
W. Somerville, and a-certain the cause of the delay.
INVENTION FOR PERFORATING POSTAGE
STAMPS.
Lord NAAS asked the Secretary of the Treasury
whetner the machine for perforating the sheets of
postage labels, which was furnished by the patentee
to the Commissioners of Stamps in the year 1849,
had been found to answer the purpose for which it
was intended; and if so why perforated postage stamps
have not been supplied to the public, in accordance to
the terms of the arrangement entered into between
the Commissioners and the patentee—viz., that he
was " to furnish thee machine on the understanding
that he was not to be repaid the cost thereof, or to re-
ceive compensation for his invention until the plan was
brought into successful operation, or hid received the
unqualified approbation of the public ;" also, whether
the perforated postage labels which had teen in use in
both Houses of Parliament for the last three months have
been supplied by the patentee, or in the usual way by
the postmaster of the district.
Mr. C. LEWIS begged to state, in the first place, that
the invention to which the Hun. Member bad alluded had
been tried, and had been found to succeed, and in con-
sequence of that success a certain sum of money had been
awarded by the Treasury to the inventor, partly as a
reward for his invention, and partly as some compensa-
tion for the coat of the machine. However, Mr. Archer,
the inventor, was not satisfied with the amount awarded
to him, and he declined to accept it. Under those cir-
cumstances the department of Inland Revenue did not
think themselves justified in making any use of
the machine, and particularly as the inventor
had intimated his intention of removing it.
The machine, therefore, remained in the
ffice, and no use had been made of it beyond this—a
certain number of sheets of perforated postage stamps
had been furnished, at the requst of the inventor himself,
to the gentlemen in the library of the House of Commons,
and also to a postmaster in Bridge street, Westminster.
COLONEL ROSE.
Mr. URQUHAR r asked it the Government would
produce the Treasury minute, on which a compen-
saiion of 1.8201. for the lose of half-pay was made to Co-
lonel Rose, while Consul• General in Beyruth?
Mr. C. LEWIS said there would be no objection to
produce the Treasury minute.
MR. DISRAELI'S RESOLUTIONS.
In answer to Sir B. HALL,
Mr. DISRAELI said he had not yet settled the points
on which he intended to take the opinion of the House
with regard to the financial arrangements of the Go-
, vernweet; but he would probably be able to lay a copy
~f his resolutions on the table to-morrow evening.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
On the question that the preamble be agreed to,
Mr. WALPOLE rose to move an addition to the pre-
amble, and in doing so he observed that it was suppcsed
chat there was considerable ambiguity in the exist-
ing law bearing upon the subject, which this
Bid embraced. For his part he thought there was nu
ambiguity whatever in it. The law wss clear and dis-
tinct, but as some ambiguity had been suggested, it was
right that they should attempt to remove it, so as to mak-
the law as plain and distinct as possible, and the best
way to attain that object was by making some alteration
in the preamble to this Biil. That was one of the
reasons which induced him to propose this addition,
but he bad another and a very important reason for
moving this amendment. It was highly desirable
thet this Bill should be rendered effective. Now
the only way to do that was to make the preamble an
unequivocal protest against the recent aggreseion of the
Pope. It was not necessary that this Bill should be a
retaliatory act upon the Pope, but the preamble
might be so worded that it should form an energetic
protest against all future aggressions of this character.
and tench the Pope that his aisumptiou of ecclesiastical
authority in this country was illegal in fact as well as in
law. He therefore wished to propose an addition to the
preamble, which, after declaring that this kingdom was
and had been at all times so free and independent that no
foreign prince, prelate, or potentate hsth or ought to have
ea:), jerisdiction or authority, either spiritual or temporal.
withia its realms, would go on to specify the law in
defers words:_.' And whereas the said brief, rescript, or
letters apoetolicel, and all such or the like, acts or matters
touching the Queen, her crown, her regality, .and the
realm, and the pretended constitution of a hierarchy of
bi,hops named from sees and with tities derived
from places belonging to the Crown of England,
and the assumption or use by any person
other than the person thereunto authorised
by law, of the name, style, or title of archbishop, bishop,
or dean of any city, town or place, within any part of the
United Kingdom, are usurpations and encroachments in
manifest derogation of the Qaeen's authority, and against
the spirit and intent of the said statute of the tenth year
Of King George the Fourth, and such usurpations and
encroachments ought not to be allowed to ripen into
usage or to obtain the sanction of time and custom."
Mr. MOORE remarked that up to the year 1829
Members of Parliament were obliged to swear that they
believed that no foreign potentate bath or ought to have
any authority, spiritual or otherwise, in this country;
but by the Act of 1829 that oath was virtually abolished,
and he should contend if the Committee udepted this
addition that they were repealing the Catholic Relief
Act by a side wind.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not think there
was any necessity for making this addition to the pre-
amble, which as it now stood would accomplish all that
was required.—(Hear, hear.) Everything which
had been sanctioned by the Committee in the
clauses had its corresponding part in the preamble,
and he thought, therefore, that no advantage would be
seemed by the Hon. and Learned Gentlemea's preamble.
No addition would be made to the Protestant securities
by it, neither would it at all confirm or alter the
law. There was one change in the preamble
which was absolutely for the worse. The preamble of
the Government Bill declared that certain of her Ma-
jesty's subjects had taken upon themselves these illegal
titles, but the preamble proposed by the Hon. Gentle-
man began by asserting that the Pope bad erected cer-
taia sees and so on. Now, if we had to quarrel with
the Pope, a foreign potentate, it must be done
by diplomatic means, and not in the preamble
of an Act cif Parliament, which dealt only with her
Majesty's subjects. It seemed to him that there was not
one aloe talon proposed by the Hon. Gentleman which
were improvements to the Bill. Be could not conceive
what good could arise from the addition of half-a-dozen
words to a preamble which W 43 already precise and
clear.

Mr. BANKES considered that tho Hon. Member for
Mayo had wren a good reason for the adoption of
these words, for he stated it was his opinion that
the spirituel jurisdiction of the Pope in this country was
a right which might be queiviened. It was requisite, as
wed for the safety of Protestants as Roman Catholics,
that they should clearly understand the principle
on which the House legislated. Should any of the
amendments which were how on the paper be agreed to,
it would then become necessary that 4 more s:ringent
and nifire satisfactory preamble should be passed than the
preamble as it now stood.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the question for the Commit-
tee to decide was whether the present preamble was suit-
able to the climes that had already been agreed to. For
his part he thought it was, and he could see no reason for
impeetiee words into it that might hereafter lead to
to alt,-
conriderathble difficulty. Unless the Committee proposed
one was not prepared r e Act of 1829,
to which he confessed he for
do,
be obtained by this introduction of o
theseobj• wore would
he thought (he present prea s, and as
mble was amply sufficient to
meet the purposes o Bill, he ahould certainly vote
against the amendment.
Mr. NAPIER raid the oath in the Act of 1829 bad
been originally taken from the 13th and 14th of Geor
111. in Ireland. The distinction between the
(Atha takenge by Protestants and Roman Catholics had been made to
relieve the conscientious scruples of the latter; but the
amendment proposed by the Hon. Member for Midhurst
neither touched nor created any doubt which any Hon.
Member might feel, but would rather have the effect of
dispelling doubt. Now although a good deal of time
might he said to hare been consumed in those discussions,
he could not think it ought to be considered wasted if
they could at last come to a clear understanding on that
Bill.—(l.lear.) The opinion of Sir Edward Sugdeu, re-
lative to thoae oaths, expressed at a public meeting in
Surrey, he conceived was sufficiently, explanatory, and
coming from such an authority, that opinion could not
be controverted. (The Hon. Member here read an ex-
tract from the speech in question, in which there was a
contrast drawn between the two (whs.) In the Act re-
Owk ing the diplomatic relations with Rome the links ef Wellington had been careful to introduce a proviso
tby
pro serving all the origins! Acts in their i_htteffirsi ,
w`lien the poar,:ra of the sovereignty r
coun-
try wore secured. With respect to the titleob of
Elisabeth.
the Church, that had been obk coed to head of
Tne cpccial statute of had never been
l
Henry VIII,
oparnan
lase
in fore, in Ireland, although the
,n.
preserved the right to the Sovereign. There
present
, oTthetr.oeought to
be no confusion about the met'
nce bet
Act—no misunderstanding
He thought there was no
involve d in the amendment
the words and the principle substantialwhatsoeverd difference relative to
between
the
of the Hon. and Learned Member
t for Midhurst and the
;
but the Hon. Member's
amendment had this advantage, that it was not framed
Member's for another Act.—(1101o, .
1 The Hon. Meopwrinheicihplewiarst the
amend-
ment also pointed too aPaasr2 w
til;oeuil3"ETr ff,rill:.'nt:c
out distinctly. Teem was,
of the Government
preamble or other parts of the

st bleb was not contained in the womb of the ancient
constitution of this country.—(Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he would make
only one observation in reply to the Hon. and Learned
Gentlemae. It would seem that some dpubt had been
raised by the Act of 1829 as to the power possessed
by foreign princes or potentates. Now he (the Attor-
ney-General) would admit of no such doubt. He could
not agree with the Hon. Member for Mayo on that
point. He denied that there could be any doubt as to
the constitutional declaration which was required to be
made, and therefore he could not see why they should
introduce into the preamble of the Bill anything which
would admit that there were doubts on the subj.-eh If
there was no substantial difference, as the Hon. and
Learned Member for the University of Dublin said, be-
w
r theea m
le preamblesome-
thin; e .
at:eietnstottol. pwrhoyposiendtrodamuceendimnteont
thaatndp
thing unnecessary, that might be offensive to the Roman
Catholics? That was not the act of a part of the Le-
gislature, but the united act ot the entire body, com-
posed as it was of Roman Catholics as well as Protes-
tants. He would therefore put it to his Hon. and
Learned Friend whether it was worth his while to in-
troduce words which might hurt the feelings of his
Roman Catholic tellovv-countrymen, and be of no use to
the 13(11?—(Hear.)
Mr. MOORE explained that what he intended to say,
and did say, was, that many believed the Act of 1829
was meant as a recognition by this country that Roman
Catholics might, without any infringement of their
loyalty, believe in the Pope's spiritual authority in this
kingdom.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GRAT fAN said the cause of all the confusion in
which they were involved was this--that they were at-
tempir g to legislate as a Protestant Parliament, upon
Protestant principles, for a Roman Catholic people. At-
tempts had been made to do the same, which had sig-
nally failed, by men of greater eminence than those wrto
now made the attempt. For his part he regretted that
the Government had involved themselves in such a mea-
sure as that they were then discussing. At all events
the system of legislation which they were pursuing to-
wards Ireland would, ere long, reduoe it to such a con-
dition that few would wish to live in the country, and it
would be hardly worth retaining as a possession of the
Crown.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For Mr. Walpole's amendment ... 131
Against it
••• 140
Majority against the amendmen
Mr. WALPOLE said the preamble,t as it then stood,
contained no distinct statement of the proceeding against
which the Bill was spatially directed.
Lard J. RUSSELL said be thought that in the pre-
amble, as it stood, there was quite enough to show what
was the reason for the introduction of the measure.
Mr. WALPOLE said that the preamble contained no
distinct statement cf the illegality of the brief. Ile
should therefore move, at the end of the preamble, the
following words:—" And also to constitute within these
realms, contrary to the laws and customs thereof, a
hierarchy of bishops named from sees, and with titles
derived from places within these realms."
Lord J. RUSSELL said he believed it might be easily
understood that it was intended to erect such sees, and
he could therefore see no necessity for the introduction
of that amendment.
Mr. DISRAELI said he thought that nothing in the
Act should be learned by implication. He believed that
the proposed amendment would effect a necessary im-
provement in the preamble,
Tee Committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment... ••• 117
Against it ...
...
•.• •-• 141
Majority against the amendment ----24
The question having then been put, that the preamble
should stand part of the Bill,
The Committee divided, and the numbers were—
For the motion Against it ... ,•• 20039
Majority for• the mation ~, —l6l
Tho House then resumed amidst considerable cheers
and laughter from the supporters of the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he proposed to take the con-
sideration of the report on Fliday ; and on Thursday
he would take a Committee of Supply.
THE OATH OF ABJURATION (JEWS) BILL,
The House having resolved itself into a Committee on
this Bill, Mr. BERNAL in the chair,
Sir R. 11. INGLIS said, that although his objection
to the principle of the Bill remained uaaltered, be had
no amendment to urge against its details in Committee;
and he should not, therefore, occupy their, time by any
protracted discussion upon that occasion.
The first clause, which is also the only clause in the
Bill, having been put,
Mr. PLUMPTRE said he should follow the course
taken by his Hon. Friend the Member for the Univer-
sity of Oxford, and not divide the House in that stage
of the Bill. A majority of only 25 Members in a
House of nearly 400 had affirmed the principle of the
measure; and he trusted that that fact would not be lost
sight of in another place. He protested against the Bill
as most painful and uflensive to the people ot this Chris-
tian country.
Mr. WALPOLE was understood to say that the Bill
would place the Jews in a more favourable positioa than
Roman Catholics with reference to their capacity to hold
various icuporsant c fficss.
Colonel :Aar BMW said the Bill would render neces-
sary more special arrangements with respect to Settle-
slay sittings and the reeding ot prayers in the House.
He did nut believe the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government cared one farthing for (be religion of the
country.
Sir R. INGLIS thought the Committee were entitled
to some explanation from the Goverement with refer-
ence to the point raised by the /lon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Midhurat (Mr. Walpole).
The SOLCITOR-GENERAL said the exclusion of
Roman Catholics from certain offices did not rest ou re-
ligious, but simply on political grounds. The course of
legislation had recognised it as an established priaciple
that attachment to particular religious opinions as a
matter of conscientious belief should not operate as an
exclusion from civil privileges. The reason why Roman
Catholics were excluded from certain offiees was, there-
fore, he repeated, purely political. The Crown, by the
Act of Settlement, must be vested in one who was not a
Roman Catholic. A Roman Catholic could not pre-
sent to a living, but a Jew could. A Jew was entitled
to all the privileges of a British subject, and
was only excluded from Parliament by an aceident. A
case involving the right of Jews to present to a living
came once before Lord Eldon. A living in the city of
London, which was elective, hiscatne vacant, and the
question arose whether Jews had a right to vote in the
election; and it was decided that Jews had the right,
though Roman Catholics had not.
Mr. HUME thought the Noble Lord entitled to great
credit for having brought this subject forward again and
again, and hoped he would press it forward, for it was
only an act ef justice.
Mr. NAPIER said the Hon. and Learned General had had observed that the exclusion of the
Jews from
Parliament was owing to the accidental insertion of cer-
tain words in an Act of Parliament, but those very
words ohowed that the Legislature of that time assumed
every Member of the House to be a Christian.—(Cheers.)
They had for months been contending for the earthly
supremacy of their Sovereign Lady the Queen; but here
was a Bill calling in question the sovereiguty of our Lord
and &venire
Lord J. RUSSELL said there was no doubt that they
were perfectly right in doing everything they could to
promote the Christian religion and spread Christianity
over the earth, but hetnuch doubted whether Christittaity
would derive any force from civil persecution—(gear,
hear )—and it appoared to him that to exclude from effice
and the Legislature loyal sutaects of her M •
.jesty On ac-
count of their religio °pillions was a species of
Christianity.
persecution not conformable with the principles of
Mr. NEWDEGATE asked, whether in the election of
clergymen to the Cures of this country it would be de-
cent or fit to invest with any authority those who rejected
Christiaeity from its very tounds,iimi? They might de-
pend upon it that if thiu Bill should pass a great change
de-
iv the feeling of the people of this country towards that
House would inevitably follow,
Mr. REYNOLDS denied cleat there was any proof of
the existence of that feeling to which the Hon. Member
had referred. Where were the petitions and bl
meetings to protest against the
admission ot the Jews t ico
Parlituni-nt? It 'sciatic!, he c Juld answer for it, the
feeling was almost unanimous in faveur of the emancipa-
tion of the Jews, and he might observe that out of 37
Roman Catholic Members in [hat House, all but one had
voted in that Bido on every division.
Colonel THOMPSON thought the oath should be
modified so es to allow a Member to be sworn on the Old
Testament, taking the oath on the true faith of a believer
in the Ohl Testament,
The Bill then passed through Committee andwni
reported, all ordered to be read a third time on Friday
next.

Sir. R. INGLIS expressed a hope that it would not
be brought on at a time when it was impossible to dis-
cuss it.
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that he
would not bring it on late at night.
The Hous,, resumed.
The Court of Chancery and Judicial Committee sill
was read a second time.
vote of 3;0,08300n:11.i::
KAFIR WAR.
The adjourned debate on bringing up the report of
the Committee of Supply was then resumed.
the
the first instalment towards the expenses of the Kafir
Mr. EIUME protested against
war, which in his opinion was attributable to
management alone. They to amerce this
old scarce! form
hy
an estimate, without the slightest advaoraz,, •
country in an anaount of which they co
to
this country or the Cape. He entreated the.lt el.
ni,:hte E.,0
Lord at the head of the Government to review ethe.Ndehcii9-
sion to which he had come a fewponsibi
.e Government to
to be bet :en t put
, and allow
raid
ah i
theed totterss colonists
much
at patenttwt ha gse r
flat
t Cafein gi I
noon
to oppose the vote.,
It was hard that this
ocfouittitrlvy shoo d be called upon to
Cape. The Noblo
BLnioridth
had a responsible support the expenses
dr that might have been
avoi,ted if th.,y
shuer
ease i dbythtahtoSseir Evf; vas altogether mistaen when
Government at the
very commissioners that he had ap-
pointedad ben thwarted inks is mea-
those gentlemen had Chown °Perea.'mi°l3;
to aid him in h.
the course which they h°a7l the
It thePiOxrcnedlit'uhnteyt cs(t)pnoitrtriaatkrten';
The papers which he In Id in his hand proved that these
four gelid-
.tnen, who were elected to fill the vacan-
cies in tho Legishtive Council, took a course th very
reverse to a hostile one against Sir IL Smith. It
was not, therefore, fair of the Noble Lord to make such
a charge against these men. He believed hat of
those gentlemen were at present
in England,t and sotwo far
from saying that they ware sorry for what t had
done, as the Noble Lord had stated they hadhe soy ex-
pressed themselves, they said, on the contrary, that if
the thiag were to be done again they would not take

any other course than the one they bad adopted. What
were the facts ? The Governor, soon after he hid big
speech upon the table, hended in fourteen reports
upon different matters, amongst which were the_
supplemental estinestes of 1850, and the estimates of
1851. Then came the bone of contention. The
members referred to said they were not sent by
wthheapt cw•oapslenteocep%svlaniyo e
they refused to proceed. Two divisions, therefore, took
pace, and these four memb rs, finding the Government
csotnialstaitteuet'o or
rhe to
Government, anythingrnen and
_ butdetermined to persevere, at once retired. To show that
they were right in the course they took, public meetings
were held which approved of the course that had been
taken. There was another point of some importance--
namely, the probability of our being freed from the fur-
ther expense of maintaining the colony as far
as regarded any warfare arising from the
..
pos-
session of that colony.—(Hear, bear.) Pan".
meetings were held at which a declaration was agreed
to defray the expenses of any such wars if a constitution
was granted to them. lie entreated the Noble Lord,
it he had any regard for the state of the colony, for our
finances at home, and for the promotion of peace, nett
)
allow any further delay to take place in granting to n
colony those institutions which, by letters patent, were
promised them. He (Mr Hume) had prepared anamendment to add to the vote, embodying the views be
had just expressed; but, for fear he would occasion
any embarrassment to the Government, he would not
press it.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not know he could add any-
thingn to what he had s id upon a former occasion to
reference to this subject; but he would endeavour to
make the views of the Government clear upon the
t_Pfclre-
alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman. The
did not
patent were granted in this country, but they
presentative institutions was done in this wagyr."
centaiu any complete details respecting these
to be
institu-
tions. They contained a mere outline, which w
ee
tilled up by the authorities at the Cape; when that
line wit% filled up the representative constitutiont_
those
not then immediately to be put in torte, but h
try,
details were to be sent back to this country,
together with the ordinances that would be approvedy
Letters
ot, These ordinances were to be considered by
the Government here, and her Majesty's Ministetrbsou as they
to give such advice respecting them
suitable) and conducive to the welfare of the colony.
What happened on the occasion of these le_hter_smpah
tent arriving at the Cape was this—Sir Smith
instead of filling up
Council by the appointment of its own noutine", thought
it it would give greater weight to the deliberations
the
Council if he had a certain number chosen by election,the
and thus to form a kind of representation even from.
body through which the new ordinances were
fto
tbu.
framed. Sir H. Smith, it appeared, was not very o!
the vacancies in the Legislative
nem in the result of these proceedings. Whatever might
.
have been the motives of the four gen+lemen to whom h
had alluded, and he (Lord J. Rusecll) did not mean in
the slightest degree to impugn their motives, they dtr_
fered so considerably from the majority of the Council,e
consisting of official members as well as representatives
for the eastern part of the colony, that, without consi-
dering whether these differences could be reconciled,
they left the Council, and the majority were left to deter'
mine amongst themselves what next was to be done. By
on
the advice of the law officers of the colony a nornmi,sstea
was constituted, and the proceedings of the Legislative
Council ceased. The commission was to consider the
whole of the details in respect to the representation or
the colony. It was evident that any further proceedings
by this body would not lead to the result originally
contemplated by the Government, because they could
not send home the ordinances in such a shape as would
enable the Government here to take them into '3OO-
- and to send them back again for the purpose
of their being put into force. Still lees could they have
done what the Hon. Member app,sred to think was
practicable—namely, to put immediately in force in the
colony a respectable eonstitutior. Teen cams the ques-
tion in reference to the representations he had made 01
the conduct of these four gentlemen. He
wished to
state that it he had given any wrong colour to their
mo-
tives—if ho had imputed to there heroin:tents which they
did not entertain, he was exceedingly sorry for having
so represented them.—(Hear, hear,) The authority from
which he spoke was that of Sir 11. Smith himself, who
thought that they had intended to resign before they'
actually did so. (The Noble Lord here reed extracts
from Sir H. Smith's dispatches ot the 24th September
arid the 30th November. 1850, in confirmation of what
he had said.) Sir Andrew Stockenettean one of the tour members alluded to, said it was impossible to ;
pro-
ceed then with the estimates, or the ordinary business
the Legislative Council. Now there was nothing
whatever in the constitution to induce them to think
that they were not to take into their consideration
the ordinary business of a legislative council. The
intention wes that any ordinance they framed should
be sent back here, and it approved of it was to
form the groundwork of a representative institution.
In the summons for the election of those gentlemen there
was nothing implying that they were to serve only for
the purpose of training a constitution for the country 89,
members of the Legislative Council. In the address of
these gentlemen, alluded to, to the Legislative Council, it
stated that one of their principal oljects was to consider
the formation of a representative constitution. That
cl,arly implied that it was not to be their whole busi-
ness. They, however, thought that they ought not to
consid,,r those estimates, and the whole proceedings of
the Government w. re brought to a stand. No doubt a
large portiait of the colonists were in their favour; but
he, believed that there was also a large portion who took
an opposite view altogether. What, at all events, was
clear was this—that it they had agreed to p.•oceed with
the immediate business brought before them, and had
drawn up the ordinances and sent them home, they
would, before this time, have received that constitution
they were su desirous of obtaining, and it would he now
in tun term.. It was for that reason be was induced to
say that these gentle-men must regret the cents() which
they had taken. He was, however, sorry to hear that they
did not regret the part they bad taken in the matter.
Sir Andrew Stockenstrem was, no doubt, a gentleman
who had for many years taken a deep interest in the
afLiirs of the Cape, of which ho was a native. He
(Lard J. Russell) had no doubt but that he formed most conscientious opinion of what his duties were. He,
however, thought it was most unfortunate that these four
gentlemen had acted in the manner described. It would
have been much better if they had continued their ser-
vices in the Legislative Council and have submitted to the
majority upon those points. There was great difficulty
in proceeding in the matter here at home, inasmuch as
they herd nut before them those official documents upon
pfoerrmly
einslterguicstleadtivtl Governor-Generalwh which
c
which they should proceed. Earl Grey had very pro-
eh ec
o council u l dft
on
current business of the colony. The case was now some-
what complicated. As he bad before observed, the con-
stitutionb drawn up was but a mere outliue, and could not
te renderedh effective until that outline was first filled up
nhewtiimthethteo
sb te Cape, anti afterwards approved of and sanctioned
her Majesty's Government at home. Ile regretted
thisstate of things; he thought it better that a represen-
tative constitution should he in full force at the Cape.
Thereviere, no doubt, great temporary difficulties and
great obstacles in the way of putting a constitution in
force, n hen tho governor who was to be tho chief of
Cho executive, and many of the inhabitants, who were
necessary fur its Eft wive operation, were now at a
distancei defending the frontier frota the aggressions
enemy. But still he did not think it would
he right that if the war were to continue for an in-
definite period, the representative institutions should be
withhel ; for an indefinite. perhal.—( Hear.) Under such
circumstances a constitution should be framed according
to the test of their judgment. As to the second point of
this great subject, he did not think that the Honourable
Gentleman bad made it quite clear to the House what
the nature of that prop. &lion was which his friends at
the Cape wished to enforce, and to obtain the assent of
this House to. The real fact was that this so-celled exten-
sion of the frontier was a move adopted for the sole pur-
pose cf defending the inhabitants and settlers in the
colony of the Cape. It was not for the purpose of empire,
There was no other advantage to be gained by this
country by this move than to enable us to defend
the
settler, in that colony. He believe(' that there never was
an opinion Si) gem rely entertained in the
colony as to
the best mode of protecting the lives and the
the colonists as tbe propriety of &depth) graorrty of
which was Of iginally proposed by Sir Bet taMid'Urban*
that the former state of thinks it Free - ,
that a vast number of
fiefirs, Hell furnished
happened
turielahed with
weapons of attack, made irrupij
one upon the colonists
and settlers. At no
many as 10 000 liare o
wh
, o time Chi re were as
invading the c luny at a mi.) swQllt all before them,
went when the colonists least
expected such au attack,
farm-houses, cart y• end burned and destroyed the
mg away the herds and
murdering the
settlers and th„l, f•
approved oe amt'"'e. Sir 11 rjamin d'Urban
de ITOtirirr, to eing beyoud the frontier, arid of en•
g•mrere these eople through their chiefs,
but stir! as Dia • •
means
we
would Quasi subjects to the British Crown, by which
be enabled to prevent these savage
tribes from •
be
the colonists and settlers. That
was the plan which
they now adopted. It was not a
61", c (if extension of territory. But Kafraria said
if the people at the Cape, was a territory
sepa-
rated from the Cape, which we were bound to defend and
keep quiet with the money of Great Britain. Be must
say he did not think that that was a very r esonablo pro-
poretion. It wan quite a deception for them to say, if
we gave them a constitution they would defend their
Own constitution from any aggression, and save this
Country from the expense of maintaining any war. That
offer appeared very tempting, but when we inquired
further into it, it simply me ant this, that they would de-
feud that part of the frontier against which there wits
no prospect of aggression, but would leave the country
to defend that part where the inveding force was likely
to be troublesome and upgreesive. That would be
a most unprofitable bargain for us to melte. His
hope and belief was, that these differences would
be soon brought to an end. No doubt they h, Py ought
to have r; presentative institutions, 'which would
generate greater zee! in the promotion of the
interests of the coloey, and in defending the rights of
the Crown; but, to surni ant immediate difficulties, the
Government were compelled to ask for a voteoies,
of money
in order to carry the colony through its present coett an
He believed that the Hon. Member for Montrose and
himself had the same end in view however the might
differ as to de tills, and he thought Y the time wasnot fa
disiant when they would agree even as to ther means to
be adopted for bringing about those results which they
all so much desired.
The report was then brought up, and the
resolution
agreed to.
THE SMITHFIELD MARKET REMOVAL BILL.
The report, as amended, was considered and agreed to.
The Guneoader Stores 1311 t went through Committee.
On BILLS (IRELAND) BI *
LL.
On the motion for the Committee on the Civil Bills
Mr. REYNOLD •
S said there were several amend-
ments on PortIOLIN of the Bill. Re wished to knew what