The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-02 00:00:00

and opinions of the Non. Member for London, hut thought
that that Hon. Member's original idea, like that of clever

men, was the beso, and he should certainly adopt it in
forming his opinion.
Mr. CLAY and Mr. J. SMITH severally explained.
Mr. BLAMIRE was of opinion, that the welfare or
embarrassment of the country depended upon the result

of this discussion. He saw in the pion only a very slight
advmtage to the country hanker, with a serious and
positive loss to the public in general. If the country
banker were induced to withdraw his notes from eircula..

Lion, the demand for gold would be wonderfully increased
instead of being diminished, as seemed to be the expeeta-

tion of the Noble Lord. It seemed to him rather too

much to call upon the House to agrea to the plan before
!t had had an opoortunity of seeing the whole of it.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY alluded to the disclaimers
repeatedly made by Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox before 1797,
that they never meant to make hank notes a legal tender,
and to the requisition of Lord King, in 1811, that his
tpriants should pay their rent in gold, the object of that

Noble Lord being not to distress- but practically, and
beyond contradiction, to prove the fact and the extent of
depreciation. To meet this course of proceeding, Lord
Stanhope had brought in a Bill, but even then the project
was never entertained of making bank notes a legal tender.
The Earl of Liverpool had expressly guarded himself

against any such supposition, when he gave his support to
Lord Stanhope'a Bill ; and Earl Grey, on the same occa-
.ion, stated his strong objection to making bank notes a
. .

legal render, by which they would have been too much

as4imilated to the " avilznat," of France. Upon this

paint Aso a pi ntest had been drawn up and entered on foe
Journals of the House of Lords, which was signed by nu
less names than those of Grey, Lansdowne, and Vassal!

FI 'Baud. He directed the attention of the House to the

evils that might and probably would arise from the adv.
don of this resolution, and he illustrated it by reference to

the supposed situation of a man who sold an estate in
Northumberland, worth 100,000/., for which he was
paid in notes, which he concluded were convertible into
gold, but on sending them to London, fund that the
Bank of England in the in erval had refused to pay its
notes in specie. He was convinced, whatever might be
the immediate consequences of the measure, that it would
entail great evils 'in posterity.
Mr. FORSTER reminded the Committee, that after

the passing of Lord Stanhope's Bill in 1811, bank notes
reached their depreciation ; and he himself had
been offered 255. for every guinea he could furnish. No
country of the world had so sound a circulation as Eng-
land, founded as it was upon convertibility, and re.•ting

:won the b,sis of a met anic currency. H. maintained
that the operation of country paper upon the exchanges
was much more remote and indirect than the Noble Lord

and his colle 'goes supposed, and that no protection
against its influence was necessary. He agreed, how-
ever, that the panic of 1825 arose principally from the
circulation of 1/. notes, and that, as long as the re-issue
of them was avoided, the panic could not recur.
Mr ROBINSON cont,nded that there was no analogy
between this plan and Lord Stanhope's Bill of 1811 ; so
that the protest referred to by the Hon. Baronet (Sir J.
Wrottesley) had, in fact, no relation to the question. Tile
object of Ministers was to prevent the drain of gold in
times of commercial panic, and he believed that it would
have that eff,ct. T,tere was no doubt that the measure
would interpose a slight difficulty to the immediate con.
vertibility of the notes of country binkers into gold ; and
he was confident that the effect would not be to depreciate
bank not. s.

i'tlr. M. PHILLIPS opposed the motion. When he
remembered that the Bank of England was in itself
merely a mercantile speculation, and that it extended its
circulation further, in proportion to its capital, than the
country bankers did, he could not nut have doubts as to
the propriety of making the issues of the Bank of Eng-
land legal tender. Awl when he saw the readiness with
which Hon. Members s, etued inclined to adopt this reso-

lution, it only tent'el to increase his doubts; and he
thought it, therefore, his duty to oppose the resolution.

He denied that the practice, stated by an Hon. Member
to exist in some parts of the country, of paying labourers
in Bank of England notes, was at all general. Lanca-

shire it did not exist. Their wages were regularly paid
at four o'clock every Saturday, and every man, woman,
and child carried their earnings in hard cash.
Colonel TORBENS would have no objection to make
Bank of England paper legal tender, provided that were
done on the plan proposed by Mr. Iticirdo, or provided
the Bank issues were on the same principle as those stated
by Joplin; but he had the strongest possible objection to
making the Bank of England notes a legal tender,
constituted as the Bank of England was. He believed
that the whole of the distress which had afflicted this
country proceeded from the mismanagement of the Bank
of England. The Bank of England was bad in practice,
but in theory it was worse. Their rule was to keep to
the amount of one-third of their liabilities in gold, when
the currency was full but when a fcreigu demand came,
they diminished the gold in their coffers below that
proportion, and in order to a readjustment, they were
then obliged either to reduce the circulation or re-
establish the amount of gold in their coffers. When,
however, they had too much gold in their coffers they I
changed that gold into securities. That this was the
practice appeared from the evidence of Mr. Horsley
Palmer. He (Col. Torrens) thought those two rules incom-
patible, and he, therefore, saw that the theory of the Bank
of Eagland was worse than its practice. Ha was of
opinion that if they extended the monopoly of the Bank
they would draw upon the country all the evils which
had been felt from the fluctuations in the currency, .ind
that when they established the Bank paper as a legal
tender, they abandoned also the principle which science
had brought to hear upon the subj,ct.
Lord SANDON said that the country banker had two
parties whom he had to satisfy as to his security: Fist,
the holder of his notes, and, secondly, the depositor. He
(Lord Sandon) tisubted if either of those parties would
be satisfied with the present measure. As to the bolder
of notes, if he wished for further security than that of the
private banker, it was not probable that Le would be a..-
tistied with that of the Bank of E:ls;euri ; neither would
the depositors be siti,fieri, because, in the event of their
washing to draw their money out, they would be ohiiged
to content themselves with Dank of England notes. lie
would oppose the resolution.
said, that the great objection which he
had to the change proposed by this resolution was, that a case
of necessity had not beon male out ; and he thought such
chatiAe was not to be justified hut by absolute necessity.
The evidence on the subject went against, rather than in
favour of, its recessity. He (Mr. Ewart) had been
on ti,e Goomittee on the State of our C inunarc,,, and

had had, therefore, opportunities of inquiring inro th- sub-
ject, and was convi,:ired that the currency of the country asit
at present stood was sufficient for the necessities of the
country. He objected to the Bank of England because
it was a monopoly. If there hod been other large esta-

blisbioents which would be rivals to each other, he would

not object to making the paper of that Bank which had
shown itself des rving of the public confidence, legal
tender. Neither would he object to the paper of a na-
tionet bank. but he could not support such a proposition
in the ca,e of the Bank ot England. He would therefore
oppose the resolution, in the first place, b cause it was
not nece,s ; secondly, because the Bank of England
was a monopoly; and thirdly, because the measure had a
tendency to depreciate the value of the currency.
Mr. POULETT SCROPE supported the resolution.
He said that some people were of opinion that every
limy should be Of: easily convertible into gold as possible.
He was of a contrary opinion. lie thought that it might
be advantageous to throw some obstruc ions in the way of
convei tine responsibilities. The Han. Member mad, some
iurtater retwartis verticti we were miaow to near front toe
sYtnntoms of impatience whit) p evaded.
Sir HENRY WILLOUG.tiBY made a few remarks
which were lost amidst the noise and cries of " Question."
Mr. HERRIES begged to ask the Noble Lord, be-
fore the House divided, whether the plan now proposed
wis to be permanent, anti whether measures were to be
taken to oblige the Bank of England to retain the
present number of branch banks?
Lord ALTHORP thought he had answered the
questions put to him by the Hon. Member for Harwich
on a firmer occassion ; although, from their being
repeated, he feared be had not done so so cleat ly as he
could have wished. The first question put was, whet
tilt'. the pan proposed was to be permanent or not?
He thought he had formerly stated that this was a
measure intended not for the benefit of the Bank, hut lor
the benefit of the country. Ile had stated, too, that the
Coarter to be granted was for twenty-one years, but that
if, in the mean time, it were found detrimental to time
public, it would then he in their power to alter it. The
Right Hon. Gentleman's next question was whether any
provision was to be introduced into the Bill, to oblige th,
Bank to maintain the present number of brunch wanks?
He (Lord Althorp) thought that it would be impossible,
in any Act of Parhatneht, to speedy the precise nutoher ot
branch banks which would be necessary to be retained,
and that some latitude simoual therefore be given. With
regard to the third question, he d d not think that the
alteration in his origin ,I plan would make the alteration it,
the currency which was apprehended. The change hart
not been made on account of any doubts wuich he (Lord
Altharp) had on the subject, but in order to satisfy the
doubts of others: and he did not think that it would be
found to Italie any material alteration in the operation ot