The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-16 00:00:00

to s,nd p,llard here it would bi sent; and wh,n it w 45
said, hJvi ungratefully Franca trevs us," no must
say that he was not deterred by the p they of France

from bdieving that it Wzii the. ieterest of chip country to
pursue tile policy with which it had identified itself. Un-
der the recent system, it was not denied that tha linen
manufacture of Ireland had grealy thriven; and looking
back for a period of 16 years, since the comme,cial system
had been liberalised, the exports by this country
to France bad incr,sqed (he sp la from memory) from

400,000/. to 2,000,0001. He regretted the restrictive
policy to which France clung with so much tenacity;
this country had the greatest interest in the pursuit of
industry by that great and ingenious nation; hut, if he
believed this country had an interest in paralyzing 'he
commercial system of France, he should anticipate that
result, from adherence to a apron which he knew to be
absolutely incompatible with any great extension of her
commercial and ma .olacturing interes,s. France c, uld
never encer the great fi l i of a owp,titi ,11 with Am- rica
and Grelt Briain till she f+eed herself •rom those

sh•Ackles which this country had had the wisd.im and the
. .

courage to get rid of. He-did not know that it was ne-
c-ssary for him to detain the Huns, ; he should abstain
from rveri,g into details, for he was not diApos,cl to
ground his opposi ion on minute calculations. He reo4-d
it rwher on the g rt-ts t principle oa which he hop,d the
House would take its stand. Ile N 'Lae Lord had talked

of the palltal itij,try brought by the tree tr,de measures
nn part cular classes. ile (Mr. Labouchere) wag afraid
any chomp iu commerce, even from WA to good, must
al Nays produc th,st result. But. surely, they were not
without their com,,E,nsations. He had seen the other

day a document not prepared in a Government oflre
or brought torwurd by m-n advocating any system of
political economy, or any political party, but by per-
sons eng,lged in works of 13,nevolence. He referred to
the reports of thosm who, a., district visitors, were en-
g' ged in visiting the haunts of the lower classes in this
mighty city, reports given with referents,. to the cundi
tiun of the industrial classes for the last two years by

_ .
medical men, clergy men, and others. They all stated
chit a great and manifest improvement had taken place
in the physical coudition. outward appearance, moral
habits, and cleanliness of those classes, and in every par-
ticular, owing to their greater comfort; and in many in-
stances the result was traced directly to the increased
means et obtaining provi-ions ch. apt. These were objects
on which it was worth while for that House to legislate;
and if they were satisfied that, by their recent legisla-
tion, these objects had been promoted, that not only the
physical state, but the moral condition and the political
contentment of the great body of the community had
been promoted, he hoped that they would pause before,
inconsequence of any partial case being stated in favour
of any portion of their countrymen, they abandoned the
policy they had ad ,pled, and that they would prefer that
which ought to be the great object in all their delibertis
lions, the general benefit o► the great body of the people.
On these grounds he entreated the House to refuse its
assent to ins motion, agaiout which he should give his
decided vote.—(Hear, h• ar.)
Mr. .S ruAta stated, that to raise the whole ques-
tion with reference to the case of one class was what, the
Noble Lord desired to do. his own constituents had
complained, in a petition, of the injury ieTheted on them
by the repeal of the corn-laws. It woull not answer
for the Government to slight the complaints of a suffer-
ing class. The millers, it might be said, were the last
persons who ought to complain; they were merely the
manueaeturers; and it was the fact that they were
complaining, and not without reason. Their request
was a modest one, namely, for it quiry whether they
could not be relieved from the consequences of le-
gislation, which had affected them iu common with
others. France adhered to a system of protection, so
did the most eminent statesmen of America. A writer

in the United States had prognosticated that not only
the Mayor of Stockport, who was a miller, but the
eleyor of Manchester, who was a cotton miller, would
come to Parliament with the same c implaint.--(Heur.
hear.) He rec .mmended the Noble L"rd at the head
of the Government, and the Right Hoe. President of the
Board of Trade, to study the Transatlantic writers, one
of whose works aptly expressed obj-ct aimed at by
his Noble Friend, namely, " The Harmony of lotereste,
Agricultural, Manufacturing, ant Corn tnerciae" Ministers
appeared to have had for a text-book Franklin's "Rules
for vneking a Great Empire a Little Otie," and the rule
" If people make complaints, don't listen to them, and
tell them they must suffer," had been faithfully wetked
out in lieta,tid From refeterices made by Sir R. Pe.l
to Adam Smith's deecriptien of the agricultural b dy.
it was to be interred be intended to make them some
compensation. lie considered that they had by their
1-eislation sacrifi,-ed, for the benefit of the menuractur•
ing class, the itieeests of the %%hole agricultural populite
two—of all cone, reed in the produce of lend (lir• city
and indirectly, whether as landlords, tenants, millers,
mortgawes, or tradesmen. He warned the Manchester
cream millers and steam loom weavers that their con-
dition might before lone be similar to that of the corn
millers. The Mayor of Seickport, who was a miller
and manufacturer, supported tree-trade measures, tied
thought he would beat the world, but his anticipations
had been disappointed, he found that the French
miller beat him. and be had gone to the wall. The
Atuericin manufacturers might betore long put the
Manchester milli re of cotton in the same position in
which the Fr. nch corn millers bad put the English corn
millers. He held in his hand a letter from Mr. Thorpe,
or Newark, au extensive miller and walst.r, relative to
the compfraiive merits of English and French machi-
nery. (Toe Hon. Gentleman read the letter, the writer
of whim stated teat as Lord Grey had told the liouse
that English millers did not know their business, and
held up the French millers as superior to them, he (Mr.
Thorpe) could only say that if he had below-el the
French se stem he would have figured in the Gazette
lung ago; and that French grinding, instecd ot bin
held up as a pattern to English millers, would be a dis-
grace to thew.) He (.4r. :quart) thought, thi.n, that it
did not become the Government to taunt teis suffering
and complaining class with want of skill, and to tali
upon them to expend furth-r capital. lie hoped the
Reuse would agree to the motion of the Noble Lord, for
he considered that by negativing it they would incur
very serious responsibility.
Mr. C. ANSTEY said that he supported the motion,
because he believed it woted tend to the advantage ot
Ireland, particularly as it did not in the least interfere
with free trade, as was thought and represented by some
Members. However, he should say that be felt it his
duty that it would be proved that there was a necessity
for such a measure for the 'agriculturists of Ireland, now
burthened with taxes beyond their oceans. He hoped
that the House would admit of a Committee, and if such
were allowed, he was prepared to show that the millers
in Ireland were buffering much and that if Parliament
did not interfere the people must nee. sasrily suffer.
Mr. E. B ROCHE said Ow he wished to adhere to
the question ot the Irish millers, without touching in
the least on free trade.—(Crtes of " Hear, bear.") He
was a inaeutacturer of wheat him•elf, but he denied
that wheat was a raw material, and he asked the House
to say if he was not to have protection for what he pro-
duced? Why should the miller have protection for what
he produced? The result of special protection to the
miller would be that if they got corn into this country
tree of duty, with a prohibition in respect of flour, the
minor witted say, " I will only give you such a price for
your wheat as I pl.ase, having at my command a larg,
supply ot that erticee against a cempetion, in which I
aeu guarded." The fact was that he millers of Ireland
had not applied themselves to the improvemetit of their
machinery so much as the French millers had done,
althetigh since the adoption of tree trade measures con-
siderable ivaproverni•uts lied been made by the millers in
respect of toe machinery; and while he would be willing
to support arty motion which would ben. tit. Ireland, he
considered that their best security now was to tuily carry
out tee principles ot tree trade; and believing that motion
was au infringameut upon those principles, he would vote

te.taiiis it.
Mr. NE WDEGA.TE supported the motion. Thi.
was the reinplast case that it was posible to conceive.
The millers of Irela-cl were injured as well as the millers
of England, and they, trerefore, demanded iequiry inti.
their case. BAweeita 1845 and 1849 there was an in-
erease in the importation of wheat if err into the Unit d
Kaugdom of 242 per cent., and that certainly was suffi-
cient to show treat the millers had suff.red to a great
extent. Then the importation of wheat into this
country from Ireland had fallen riff to a very con-
siderable ext,nt sins° 1845, the dimunition bring in
wheat. fl ,tir, and mime al, upwards of one million cwt.
Toe plain fact of the case was, that the importation of
wheat into the United King iota within the last few
years had increased one-half, while the importation of
wheat and wheat flour into England from Ireland hed
decreased more than our-hale which was a very signifi-
cant sign of how the present syteem was tending
France, from being an importing country, as regarded
turn, was now an exporti.,g .me, and .a French states-
man stated. that since 1844 five millions of acres were
brought ieto cultivation in France for the express pur-
pose or suppl3ing the English market. The same thing
occurred in the northern pa, is of Germany, and at home
they had the millers complaining. Yet the millers were
determined to do nothieg ,o relieve the distress, tut al-
foe ed it to cure itself. He reed a letter from a miller in
Wakefield, in which it was contended that it was im-
possible for the English millers to compete with the
French, in consequence of the heavy rates and taxes 10
which they were subjected. In his (Ir•Newdegate's)
opinion, the Noble Lord who brought forward the mu-
don only did his duty to his country in calling the at-
tention of the House to the distress existing among the
millers in Ireland.
Mr. WILSON contended that if any argument was to
be drawn from the importation of flour and wheat dur-
ing the last five years, it must be in favour of the
miller. From the übservatiens made by the Noble
Lord, it might be inferred that because France en
d protection, the people enjoyed grs at Prosperity.
Now, he enntreded that if the Ellwish farmer sue.
fered, the French farmer stiff .red &ill more, es may be
seen from the report of the Minister of Commerce, lately
published. The Noble Lord else mid that the French
wince was enabled to grind fl iur in bond, and then
to export it to foreign countries, and undersell the
English miller in his own market. Nothing could be
more fallacious than such an argument. France was
divided into sections, and although the miller there
was permitted to grind wheat in bond, and then ex-
-1.30r, i,, he was obliged to import an quantity
from the section in which be resided. The Noble
Lord bald the English and Irish miller had butter
m.chinery than the French millers ; but how
did it happen that the French miller was enabled to
grind his flour and send it to Olessa and then untkrsell
him, cud even (1,, so in the English market? English-
men by their ingenuity were often axle to overcome the
difficulties of climate, and to compete with foreigners in
all parts of the worl t. He alluded to the Government
mill at Deltterd, which was, he believed, the most per-
fect in the kingdom, and in which a new improvement
was lately made, by which a great saving of time,
labour, and money was eff-ctrd. He knew a gentleman
who had a mill in Reeding, where he ground flour on the
old system, whereas, in London, where he had another