The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-20 00:00:00

GERMANY

Accounts have been received from Frankfort to
the 16th.

ELECTION COMMITTEE.
HARWICH.
The Committee sat again yesterday, and proceeded
with the objections on the part of the sitting Member to
the votes polled by Mr. Cranford.
On the conclusion of the scrutiny the room was cle ired,
and on the parties being admitted,
The CHAIRMAN announced that the Committee had
determined that Mr. Prinsep, not being duly qualified in
accordance with the provisions of the let and 2d Vic..
cap. 48, entitled "An Act to emend the Laws relating to
the qualification of Members to serve in Parliament," Was
not duly elected for the borough of Harwich to serve in
the present Parliament, and that the last election was
therefore a void election.

before the end L
-., ue again in Eng•
land. And you n. _ .... c . shall not be sorry when
I can exclaias with truth. "Jusundiacti labor es."

M. von Rochow, the Russian Envoy, was to leave
that city on the evening of the 17th for Warsaw.
No sitting of the Diet for other than formal business
was expected for some days.
No date bas been fixed for the dissolution of the
Central Provisional Commission of the Bund, now
practically superseded. - -
The garrison of Frankfort has not been increased,
nor hnd any troops been concentrated round it; but
the several 'States had agreed to put two-fifths of the
Federal military contingent on such a footing that it
could be put in motion within eight days.

-- -
POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
WESTMINSTER. •
A gentleman applied for a summons against an omni-
bus conductor fur deceiving him with respect to the route
of his carriage.
The trick was one of a more than ordinarily disgrace.
ful character, the gentleman, who is evidently a stranger
in London, having been taken a considerable distance in
the omnibus in a direction diametrically opposite to his
destination. The applicant hailed the omnibus in St.
Paul's Churchyard, and inquired whether it went to the
Colosseum, and upon the conductor informing him that
he could put him down very near it the gentleman got
in, and after riding some distance was set down at Chet-
!lea Church, near Battersea-bridge, the conductor point-
mg to a turning and telling him to go up there. The
gentleman did so, but after proceeding some distance,
ascertained upon inquiry at a tradesman's shop that a
gross deceit had been practised upon him, as he was at
least three miles from the Coloss-um. Having subse-
quently ascertained the conductor's number, he applied
to the Lord Mayor, who referred him to this court.
The clerk was about to take the gentleman's instruc-
tions for a summons in the usual way, but it having been
previously held by Mr. Burrell that where the traveller
is " deceived" at the time of getting into the carriage,
and " undeceived" when he alights and discovers the
disgraceful trick that has been practised upon him, be
should apply for his remedy where he was imposed upon,
he eonsidered it his duty to call the gentleman's atten-
tion to the circumstance of the false representation
having been made in St. Paul's-churchyard, which, ac-
cording to the above view, would be the place where the
offence was committed, when Mr. Burrell expressed his
opinion that, although the charge might be viewed as a
continuing offence within his jurisdiction, the case was
one especially within the Lord Mayor's district, and re-
ferred him back to his Lordship.
The gentleman, who was actuated only by a desire to
protect the public, expressed, as may naturally be sup-
posed, his concern at discovering there was so much dif-
ficulty in the matter.
WORSHIP-STREET.
Thomas Bates, a powerful blackguard-looking fellow,
was brought up before Mr. Hammitl, charged with being
concerned with several men not in custody in the follow-
ing brutal attack upon Mr. Josiah Mason, a tradesman
in Goswell-street.
The complainant, accompanied by a friend, entered a
public-house in the Kingsland-road to procure some re-
treshment, after a walk, on the preceding evening, and
there Saw the prisoner and four or five other men drink-
ing at the bar. Two young women also entered a few
minutes afterwards, one of whom was showing her foot,
which had been injured, to the other, when the pri-
soner's wife interfered with them and made use of some
filthy expression, and upon the young woman expressing
her resentment, she struck her such a violent blow in
she face that her eye became swollen and black. The
complainant reproved the prisoner's wife for such an un-
provoked and cruel attack, and was immediately set upon
by the prisoner and his companions with such ferocity
that the landlord was obliged to interfere for his protec-
tion, and the whole gang were ejected from the house.
There they made such a disturbance and uttered such
vindictive threats, that the complainant, his friend, and
the two young women were afraid for a long time to leave
the house, and were at length let secretly out at the pri-
vate door; but they had no sooner got into the street
than they were discovered by the prisoner and the other
men, the former of whom rushed upon the prosecutor and
struck him down by a violent blow in the face, while
his wife and the four other men beat and kicked him
about the head and body as he lay upon the pavement
in such a brutal and savage manner that, as one of the
witnesses expressed it, "he was completely covered
with blood, and appeared to ba perfectly emaciated."
The screams of the women, and cries for the police from
several of the neighbours, ultimately brought up several
constables, who rescued the prosecutor from further in-
jury and took the prisoner into custody, but his com-
panions effected their escape.
When called upon for his defence the prisoner said
that he had been struck first by the complainant is blow
on,the mouth which knocked out one of his teeth, but
be acknowledged that he had no witnesses to corrobo-
rate his statement; and this being positively contradicted
by the complainant and another witness, who declared
that if he had sustained such an injury he must have re-
ceived it in the course of his being ejected from the
house by the landlord and his assistants to protect the
plaintiff from his violence,
Mr. flespireL, after commenting severely upon the
prisoner's outrageous and wanton conduct, ultimately
consented, at the instance of the complainant, to adju-
dicate upon the case summarily, and sentenced the pri-
soner to pay the extreme penalty of 51., or, in default,
to be committed to the House of Correction for two
months.
The prisoner was not able to pay the penalty, and he
was therefore removed in the van.
CLERKEN WELL.
Placido Cornoti, an Italian, who was described in the
police sheet as a picture-frame
.maker, of 3, Summer-
street, Clerkenwell, was charged with having violently
assaulted and stabbed at police-constable Ward, No. 141
G division; and Mary Slater and Mary Collins were
also charged with having assaulted the officer and at-
tempted to rescue the prisoner.
Ward, whose head was bound up and who was much
injured, deposed that yesterday morning, at about two
o'clock, he was on duty in Warner-street, Cold Bath-
fields, Clerkenwell, when his attention was attracted by
a noise, and on proceeding to the spot ho found the pri-
soners, who were hootieg and disturbing the whole
neighbourhood. He remonstrated with them, and urged
them to go home quietly, when the man turned upon
him and abused him. Witness took him into custody,
on which the female prisoner rushed at him and at-
tempted to rescue the male prisoner. Police-c mstables
244 and 270 G came to his assistance, and they suc-
ceeded in apprehending the prisoners. The male pri-
soner was exceedingly outrageous, and fought and
kicked at witness and knocked him down. He then took
a knife from his pocket, swore he would rip him open,
and made a stab at witness, but mischief was prevented
in consequence of the point of the blade coming in con-
tact with his belt, which was cut.
Constable 244 G confirmed this evidence. When he
saw the prisoner take the knife from his pocket, deli-
berately open it, and make a stab at Wald, he (witness)
struck him on the arm with his staff, and he dropped
the knife.
270 G gave corroborative testimony.
The prisoners denied the charge. The male prisoner
affected ignorance of the Englia.h language, until the
woman Slater said she had known Mr. Curnoti for the
last four years. She met him on Sunday night, when
he asked her to have something to drink. Mrs. Collins
and herself accompanied him to a public-house, where
they drank together, and they were only anxious to get
him home.

BRITISH PROTESTANT CHAPEL
AT FLORENCE,
The following correspondence has taken place between
the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and her Ma-
jesty's Minister at Florence, on the subject of certain
charges brought by the Tuscan Government, to the
• effect that the British chapel at Florence has been con-
ducted with a view to making prosely tea to Protestant
worship:—
THE BON P. C. SCARLETT To VISCOUNT PALMERSTON.
(Receivd January 28.)
" M " Florence, January 20, 1851.
y Lord,—A charge has been brought against the
British Protestant Church at Florence by the Tuscan
Government, of having been in the practise of teaching
Tusean subjects the doctrines of the Protestant faith in
the Italian language, and of adopting other practices
specified, contrary to the ecclesiastical regulations and
laws of Tuscany.
" I have the honour to inclose a copy
of a note re-
ceived on this subject from the Duke of Casigliano,andof my reply to that note, which last contains a refuta-
tion
of those accusations, grounded on a letter,ac
to
copy
of which I also inclose, which has been
addressed
me by the church vestry at Florence, by which your
Lordship will be convinced that there has been no sort
of foundation for making the accusation.allency, I have
c
st since sending my reply to his Excellency,
been informed both by him and by Signor Landucei, that
the explanation I have afforded apceariisatis
may havefaetory,and
that it is possible the Tuscan Government
been misinformed by their own awhorities.
that it is now the obser.re h
_" Your Lordship will
Cus-
tom for the police to attend insaitdaetetdheteohmurelnoncoSnay.nedr:ay:
" The Duke of Casigliano
&ion, that orders had ccimefromthe Prussian. Mission at
Rome to sanction the Tuscan Government in prohibit-
ing the pastor of the Swiss Church at Florence from
. preaching in Italian to Tuscan subjects who h
to frequent have
for
soeae
time been accustomed that church, the
practice in future, he said, would be
Majesty's
forbidden.—l
IL le Chargé d'Affaires
have, &0., (Signed) "P. CAMPBELL SCARLETT."
"Florence, January 9, 1851.
,---
representative at Florence, applied to Her Britanniche Grand Ducal
Gnvernment in 1838 for permission to open under
protection a private chapel for the purposes of Anglican
worship. The Tuscan Government complied wi:h the
request of the Minister of England, on the condition,
however, that this chapel should be wholly and exclu-
sively private, which was moreover the natural result of
the public law of Tuscany, in which there exists a state
religion protected by the State.
" The Grand Ducal Government has now been in-
formed that in the Anglican chapel in the Via del Maglio,
,all those who desire to take part in the service are freely
admitted, and it is even known that the custom of pray-
f; and catechizing in the Italian language has been in-
troduced there. Many Cetholics, Tuscan Subjects, im-
bibe there principles and sentiments contrary to the
dominant religion, and publicly propagate the same.
The Tuscan Government is deeply sensible of the duty
of not tolerating such an abuse, and of opposing a state of
thins which, combined with other effects made of the
same character and with the like object, would infallibly
lead to the weakening of the Catholic religion in Tuscany.
" Accordingly, I cicein it my duty to acquaint you,
M. le Chargé d'Affaires, that if the abuse which I have
• pointed out to you is continued, the Grand Ducal Go-
vernment is resolved to adopt all the measures which
shall be neceseary to prevent Tuscan subjects from
taking part in the religious ceremonies of the Anlican
chapel.—Receive, &c., g
(Signed) "LE Due DE CASIGLIANO."
THE HON. P. SCARLETT To THE DUKE OF cASIGLIANO.
, Jan. 16 l
" M. Le Ministre,—l havelhorenee delayed until , noewsl. to
reply to your Excellency's note of January 9, relating
to the charges brought by the Tuscan Government
agaiest the British Protestant Church at Florence, for
supposed interference with the religion of the State, by
the adoption of certain practices specified by 3 our Ex-
cellency's communication to me, and alleged to have
been sanctioned by that establishment.
" I had the honour, in conversation, to observe to your
Excellency, that I apprehended it would be found, on
due investigation, that the accusations advanced were
groundless and erroneous, and that the Tuscan Govern-
ment had been deceived and misled in this matter, to the
prejudice of the British churn in this city.
n Le this belief I was not mistaken, and I have much
satisfaction in inclosing to your Excellency' the accom-
panying statement, drawn up by the committee appointed
for the management of the English Cnurch, to whom 1
forwarded a copy of your Excellency's note.
"In this statement., signed by the secretary of the
committee, and addreeseu
,to me, every point in your
Excellency's note has been answered seriatim, either by
a direct denial of the facts imputed, or by an explana-
tion which cannot but prove eatisiactory to the Tuscan
Government.
" I: appears from this document that neither prayers,
preaching, or teaching in the Italian language has ever
been resorted to, nor in nine other language, with refer-
ence to Tuscan subjects. That no Tuscans have either
been invited to enter, or c7eutiraged to frequent, the Pro-
testant church, eeettepting the p Alice authorities seat
there by the Tuscan Government; and I am further Ril-
thorised to stare, that no Protestant books have ever
been translated, printed, or circulated among Tuscan
subjects with the sanction of the, church in question.
" Such being the state of the case, I trust your Ex-
cellency and the Tuscan Government will entertain the
same conviction as I do myeelf, that the charges which
have been brought against the English Church have no
real foundation, and must have been caused by some
centuaion and misunderstanding of the truth, as I feel
convinced that it is, and always has been, the sincere
desire of that religious institution to conform entirely to
the regulation required by the Tuscan Government, from
IT Which 7t haiseniever deviated.—l seize this occasion, &e,
(Signed) "P. CAMPBELL SCARLETT."
The select vestry of the church have given a distinct
denial, seriatim, of the allegations contained in the letter
of the Tuscan Minister for Foreign Affairs. They state
tor hat nu custom hai been nateeitueei of making prayers
reading catecnisine in the Lanett: language, ant that
no language had been used in the church ministrations
save
VISCOUNT PALXERSTON TO THE RIGHT HON. R. L. sIIEIL.
Fereige-,.thee, Feb. 3, 1851.
" have received Mr. Scerlett's dispatch of the
20th ult., enclosing copies of a correspondence with the
Duke of Casigliano, respecting an unfounded iteousatiou
brought by the Tuscan Government against the parties
concerned in the naanenetnent of the affairs of the British
chapel at Florence ; that they conducted the services
in
that chapel in a way calculate.] to alienate the miuds•of
Tuscan subjects from the Roman Catholic faith.
" I have to instruct you to say to the Duke of Casig-
lieno, that her Majesty's Government ta 'let that this
eorreiapondenco Will si,o4 this yuccas Government that
they ought not to place too implicit reliance on the
:secret information which way reach them; and you
will also say, that though the papers inclosed
Scarlett's dispatch are satisfactory to
her ,Majesty's Government, as showing that the
Britidsh residents at Florence have strictly com-
pli with the conditions on which permission was
given for the establishment of a Protestant chapel,
Yet her • '
sial,impresarstY Govern ent cannot disguise the into-
lerant *o4r Which theywhave received gt'rom the
.s
curia which is manifested in the Duke of Casig-
contrast ..__".unic'stion, and which affords so remarkable a
;; th the liberal and enlightened system which
prevesoi at the
cibe 1' religious b 1- Kingdom, in regard to the exer-
patch to the ('
tef.—You will give a copy of this Dukedis-
of Casigliano.—l am, &C.
• (Signed) " PALMERSTON.'

LIFE IN CALIFORNIA.
We have been favoured with the following letter
from a young Englishman, who has lately visited
California._

a month since I arrived in San
It is now nearly
been
aSrainy Francisco, California, March 14.
Francisco. During that lime I havebusily em-
ployed,urtnitmeanadndmloasbtouiwr pt
tobrattani:
mines in Cali
visiting
California. all t
hAef terd' lit
he ree
had cost me to reach this country, I fully expec,ed
that nothing could repay the ; but I am agreeably
d for all my troubles. Even as a commonplace
surprised, and consider that I am now amply re-
warde
traveller, I find in California a wide field of interest.
The strange conglomeration of society; the practical
results of an experimental system er':' self-government;
the peculiarities of a conatitution, framed not so much
on the models of others as from individual causes
and local necessities, are things which no other
part of the world afferds such perfsct specimens
of as California. Political economists and funded
proprietors speculate on its immediate influences;
while philosophers, on the other band, prognosticating
its ultimate destiny, look upon this country as the means
of advancing civili.ation and propagating Christianity
from the eastern to the western shores of the Pacific.
Without, however, indulging in any such lucubrations, 1
with which I have but small concern, I content myself
with the ordinary avocation of gratifying curiosity and
of being amused.
On entering the bay of San Francisco, the first object
that strikes one is the enormous mass of shipping. Lon-
don and Liverpool are of course beyond comparison, but
with the exception of these, and perhaps New York I
know of no other port which contains so great a number
of vessels. The town itself is equally remarkable.
When one reflects that eighteen months ago a few scat-
tered tents were the only habitations in the place, one
looks with simaieinent on the city, which is daily in-
creasing, and which already numbers over 30,000 in-
habitonts.
The site of the town is a steep sandy hill, but Yankee
ingenuity is rapidly removing this inconvenience by
levelling the hill and filling up the bay. The greater
number of the buildings are upon piers stretching
into the sea, and a lot of some 40 feet square of
" water surface" is worth about 5,000 dolls. In the
very centre df the town are several large ships, dis-
masted and roofed over. Their strange looking broad-
sides are detorated with the signs of different shops; and
as they form a portion of the regular street, one
wonders, at first, what eccentric characters have taken
the trouble to paint their houses with two black stories
and a white one in the middle. Already there are several
theatres, a French vaudeville, and one Italian Opera!
And notwithetending the strong national propensity of
the people for business, one of the principal features of
San Francisco, and indeed of every town in California,
is the gambling houses. They are never closed and
they are always full. It would be difficult to
give you a correct idea of these infernal re-
gions, or to describe the strange scenes which daily
take place in them. Picture to yourself enormous rooms.
gaudily decorated, filled with some 400 or 500 people of
all classes, without distinction of age, rank, or sex.
Mon. é." "Faro," " Rouge et Noir," ere the favourites
among an endless variety of games. The tables are co-
vered with money, surmounted with ornamental lumps of
gold and bags of dust. At one end or the room is, of
course, a bar; at the other is a band. The
excitement of the play, the effects of the liquor,
the influence of the music, and, above all, the
confusion of languages is, as you may imagine,
what the Yankees call ' some " Everybody is armed,
from the ruffian who transfers his treasures from
the mines to the gambler's table to the frail fair one who
relieves the'gambler's pocket for the benefit of her own.
Four times since I have been here—I wonder that it has
happened no oftener—cliff rences of opinion, concerning,
no doubt, points of honour, have been summarily die-
cussed and as summarily decided in these places by vir-
tue of a " five-shootsr." Three times out of the four
the survivors experienced the pleasures of that prompt
decision which they had so warmly advocated. In less
than six hours alter the quarrels the law of Judge Lynch
bad done its work and order was again restored. Such
is life in a new country.
Leaving San Francisco, I took my passage in a
steamer to the city of Sacramento, a large town, a.bout
150 miles up the river, which bears the same name and
situated at the extreme point of inland navigation. A
day or two at this place sufficed to di-gust me with a re-
petition of the scenes I bad witnessed in San Francisco.
Accordingly, by the first opportunity that offered I took
my departure for Marysville, which, from its vicinity to
the various branches of the Sacramento river, is the
grand depot for all the miners of the wet " diggins " in
Northern California, and consequently a point of
interest to a sightseer. After spending a pleasant even-
ing with the editor of the Marysville Herald—who be/-
tee-bye happened to be a genuine cockney, serving the
city of Marysville in the several capacities of editor,
play-actor, concert-giver, and auctioneer—l started the
next morning fur the "Folks of the Yobs." A tew
hours' bide along the Spurs of the Sierra Neveda
brought me at last wiJiin sight of the go'd hunters.
Two or three hundred men were at work upon
what had formerly been the bed of the river. By
the law of mutual agreement each miner is en-
titled to a certain portion of this " bar," as it is
called, in which the gold is found. And as the precious
metal cannot in such diggings be separated from the soil
without the process of washing, the allotments are mea-
sured by 30 feet on the bank of the river and so far back
as the bed extends—thus giving to each man his fair
allowance of water. Generally speaking the original
possessors have long since made their fortunes and sold
their claims to others for large or small sums, according
to the richness of the soil. The result is that these
claims are now falling into the hands of small compa-
nies of three or four, who, in their turn, will sell them,
as immigration increases, to companies of six or eight,
and so on, till the individual gains are so small that the
price of labour falls and the capitalists become the sole
proprietors of the mines. Where three or four toge-
ther possess a "claim" each attends to his own de-
partment of the labour—one loosens the soil, another
fills the barrow or cart, a third carries it to the
river, and the fourth weehes it in the " rocker." If the
dust is very fine, quieksilver is afterwards used to col-
lect it from the black sand. For the most part the
mining is above ground—i. e., the death of the soil is
seldom mere than six feet above the rock. In some
places they area what they call " coyote digeins ;"
these produce the same kind of dust, and are worked
like coal mines, having shafts sometimes as deep as 60
feet.

Mr. COMBE—Did be invi►e you to drink in the Eng-
lish langu4g. ? Prisoner—Yes, Sir,
Mr. COMBE—Then he understands English? Prisoner
—Oh dear, yea Sir, quite well.—(l laugh.)
Mr. COMBE said it would have no good effect upon
such a teliow as the prisoner to inflict a pecuniary fine.
He would therefore sentenee him to one month's impri-
sonment, without fine, in the fl.tuae of Correction. The
women were sentenced to pay a fine of 20s.
Cornoti was taken from the bar and locked up.

The average weight of gold made by each miner
throughout the " wet diggins," or diggins where water
is used for washia,; the geld, is nearly 4. z, or 7 dolls, a
day. To give you an instance, howeve-r, of the amount
of metal in the soil, which I had from a miner on the
spot :—Three E”2lishmen b ,ugb t a " claim," 30 feet by
100 feet, for 1,400 d.,113. I:, had been twice before bought
and sold for misid
vrable sums, each party who sold it
tsh7pEgosningi,hitinpn paid their tobaneatrlyexpav dolls.,
h
In three
hr ie we
de elk3s
, and dolls, a day besides fur their trouble. .
This "claim,"
which is not an unusually rich one, though perhaps it
has been more successfully worked. has produced in 18
months over 20 000 dolls., or 5,0001. worth of gold.
After all one had beard of the dissipated habits and
questionable characters of the miners, I was prepared to
•• rough it" during my visits to the mines, and when I
round myself about to pass a night in a small tent
designated the " miners home," in which over 40
of these gentlemen were assembled to drink, board,
and lodge, I cannot say that I anticipated much pl,a-
sure in the prospect of sleeping four in a bed, or being
at the "rule mercy" of # " crowd" of which I was the
only one unarm d. But, strange to say, I never saw a
more orderly congregation, or such good behaviour in
such bad company; and the only thing that disturbed
my peace was that one night the bunk in which I slept,
not being sufficiently strong to support its unusual bur-
den, yaari.ed in the middle, and deposited its contents on
the ground. I returned to San Francisco, and thence I
went to the "dry diggins" in the south, The country
is here truly beautitul, and, unlike the plains in the
great valley of the Sacramento, is exceedingly fertile and
capable of producing unlimited resources. Even in the
present drought its valleys are watered by frequent rivu-
lets, while throughout the arid nature of the soil, com-
bined with the uncertainty of the seasons, will prevent that
part of California ever becoming agricultural. Its mi-
neral wealth is, perhaps, the greatest in the world. The
quartz rock, whiCh is supposed to bathe only permanent
at:_nr.ee from which gold will eventually be derived, ex-
nos north and south for more than a degree and half
of latitude • a
from 3Aleiband the quicksilver mines, now rendering
stroy the
Nlari to 4,0001 b. of metal daily, threaten to de-
pou PfneV.l34s mono of of the Rethschilds. At
„mug
27,,inriath‘ e district of the quartz, a society pos-
pense, machine; claims"
whom the have established, at a great ex-
men,Y. or crushing the rock. They employ 30
3' Pay at the
month. Thisiociet -
1,500 dolls, a day,
Pe rage of 100 dollars each a
X„ .ai now making a clear gain of
cted when capital44set's twill show
-you what
is
to
be
ex-
difficult to say what the
to the proportion of quartz.
part, which is all they work nut tptaking
avoerwork in the country. It is
ray
proportion of metal is
only the richer
esented by 15 or 20, end the gitartz b 100. making
about one-fifth metal; and it is ascertainyed
tifteenth y So much for statistics. I
mtihaht. one-
more fully into detail, or I might enlarge contdtereaebtleyr on general views; but I think that you have bad pretty
nearly enough of the one, and I know that you aro betteyr
able than lam to perform the rest for yourself. In the
i.4nite,l space of a letter it is difficult, where so much
may be said, to say what is interesting anti to leave tin_
said what is not interesting; and more particularly in
writing to you it is DO ea l matter to make state-
meats which, however new to most people, you most
Probably are already conversant with. The interest,
however,
which must be felt concerning Ca 0r ma, and
the little that is at present known about it, must be m y
rly aPology for so great a trial on your patience.
"'"gine how anxious lam to hear some news, when I
tell you my last letter from England is more than nine
months old ! I have relinquished the idea of South
inerict, and Propose t • by the States instead.
Oct a, , re urning
' 'sth I leave this by steamer for Acapulco; from
that point / shall ride through nde through M,zico, and (D.V.)

EB* M
EN signifies that she AOANE
mails are sent tronaAILS the General Post-WIN:-
by the night—and Mby the morning—dispatch.]

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America (by US. pkt.) M Slay 21 .• .. Southall:mt.
Africa (West coast).. N 14th of the month Plymouth June 3
Alexandria* .... •• .. N 19th & 30th of mo. Dover Belgium .. .. .. N Daily .. • •
..il/over .. May IS
•. D Brazil .. • .. M 9th of the month ISouthampt. Juneaily
12
Buenos Ayres .. .. M 9th of the month 'Southampt. Jurie I't
California(viaChagres)M 17th of month Southarapt. May 20
Cape of Good Hope N 14th of month Plymouth •• June 3
Constantinople* .. •• N 7th 17th 27th of mo Dover •• June 5
Central America .. 11l 2d & 17th of mon. Southampt. 5
Channel Isles .. .. N Mon., Wed., & Fri.lSoutampt. Tu. Th•S
Chili .. .. .. . M 17th of the month Southampt.( May 20
France .. •• M& N Twice daily .. .. (Dover .. Twicedally
Greece* .. .. .. N 7th 17th 27th ef mo /Dover • • May 20
Hamburgh .. .. N Tuesday & Friday London ••Tues.
Holland .. • • .. M Wednes. & Satur. Loudon
.. Mou• Sat,
Th Honduras .. .. . N 17th of the month 'Southampt. May 20 rt
Ireland .. ••M& N Twice daily .. .. (Holyhead .• 1 wicedaily
India (via Sonthamp.) M 20th of the month Southanapt. May 23
India (via Marseilles) N,7thit 24th ofmonth 'Dover • • Arrived
Mediterranean (via I
Southampton) •• M 20th of the month Southampt. May 23
Mediterranean (via
Marseilles) .. .. N 7th&24th ofmonth Dover • • Arrived
Mexico .. .. —M2d of the month.. Southampt. June 5
Madeira • • • • .. M 9th of the month Southampt. June 12
Malta.
..
.. N[7:ilo7tthh
of month
Dover May 20
month
Naples* • . .. • • 17,5 th 15th 25th ofmo Dover • • May 22
Papal States* .. .. 11,5 th 15th 25th °fin° Dover .• May 22
Peninsular.. .. .. 111'7th 17th 27th of mo Southarupt. May 24
I'
.. .. •• .• M 17th of the month Southamnt. May 20
Tuscany* .. .. .. N sth 15th 25 th ofmoi Dover May 42
West Indies .. .. 31;17th of the month Sou •'
May 20
West Indies (except _ I

DANGEROUS AT.rat.,‘
POLLocK 1,--' "N THE REV. MR
Lust uvening a reulatit ir EVENING.
24ark's Church, ou the R„. tt'rat-,..tack was mode in St.
a_nusdencement of the ser
lowing circumstances :—On thee- m'°ll43ekt unch-r the fol-
question_
eat the
took seats. For an
vice two men entered the church°
hour the service proceeded quietly, b
down the
of that time the individuals is expiration
restless and wandered annoyingly I eameapparently
, :truck
aisle. Mr. Boyd, the clerk, in order toppre:fled
ordered them eithvr to sit down quiedy ore"'lclecorum,
church. 'lnstlntly, one of the men ruched to theely° the
, with
and, opening the door, with a stick in his band, Pulpit,
Mr. Pollock twice on the back. Mr. Pollock
. serving. the man asceodiog the pulpit stairs, a".
quiree who he was. The prisoner exclaimed
violetice that he was 6. God Almighty." Great
_excitement instantly pervaded the edifice. Gentle-
u'peerah roue to their feet and ladies screamed, and seldom,
atl 21;5 has a scene so remarkable been witnessed in
sar.viodtficel devoted to sacred purposes. Mr. Pollock,
In.ii tizirsae. ,6rl:,,ived instant assistance from the gentle-
-violent .st Fut:m4 of the congregation, and, after a
-from the prillei the
1324"23n
was carried forcibly
building, 244 and conveyed to the exterior of the
perfect calesnessPlini''ek resuming his sernson with
shortly arrived, aucill composure. A police-officer
dueted in custody
to the
assailant was pinioned and con-
by a large concourse „fe station in High-street, followed
of St. Mark's and Great Gsteeciators from the congregations
p_aces having tertnirife-street Chapel, the services
it!, IF.th l
relict,. On arriving at the st:e° shortly after the occur-
y tooaremeasures of strong re-
prc4ion were found Dr cessar
piaceattirain the prisoner from i
.1,10LA,,,e, and ha,;i6cuff3 ‘"te
quentiround his wrists and
~
repel ror.nd bas fret. Subse
wvisittd the pri-
sß Zuspeo
Mr. Talbot, from the Dispensa4' Mr- Gibbon: and
saner ; and althc;lgh et first insanity'
i, u,„..yt*iicyed that
.tlic act of violeacheacr may be traced
ted, it
to brain Icver. Alter Lome" time
:Wel'
prisoner, who stavJd tht:tt bid nawe e!sPered the
Roxburgh, reaidi2ig at I2S, Graftort-strecite Ddmiel
l'hlitl4, was conveyed to the Dtspermary.'
,1i ti ' ?Ent to acquaint his wif,i with his
Position
mes.
1
on, whose mo:ements were at least of a 6us-
—*
7(44( 4,,, 2' f er, ~ gave his name, but it was not thoug
,1i ,t,Wtil him. We are happy to state tilt
i--/-4.. -4V444/> ' - ...was nut in any manner injured,—
!. A "+*7/4 ..r ...,. lAterday.
%.01.
\r•-4,r4 h4.4,t1 of New York, and Mr. C. D. Arcbi-
-4 - ',. . * 'l4,Eptv vb. with Lad
,Paluiels&•D., On &air-
' drAhe ' office.
• ,
~...- 14,0

,_l'iaoth of month
Papal States*
Naples* .. • • • • N,sth 15th 25th ofmo
15th 25 th °flu°
Peninsular.. IVE'7th 17th 27th of mo
I' M 17th of the month
Tuscany* .. .. • . N, sth 15 th 25 ofmo
West Indies 31i17th of the month
West Indies (except
Havanna & Nassau) M,2d of the month ..
4. The malls to those c ountries thus marl
French packet vl‘ Marseilles.
CALIPOZNIA.—MaiIs to and from California
are now despatched and due by every Ameril

!Southanspt. (June 5
cod (0) are conveyed by

eia the Malted State
Lean packet

ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS.--The following
gentlemen, having undergone the necessary examinations for-
the diploma, were admitted members of the t, ollege at the
meeting of the Court of Examiners on the 16th inst. :
Messrs. William Tait Carr, Aberdeen; Frederic James
Caldecott, ,orking, Surrey; John Wilde, Islington William Warwick, Belfast ; Henry Simpson, Chester
Henry Power, London ; Ebenezer Moore, Islington ; Edwin
Wilson, Hyde, Cheshire; Richard Wellings, Ravenstone
Leicestershire; Albert William Hanford, Nottingham;
Francis Trevelyan Buckland, Deanery, Westminster; Ed-
ward George Wake, Hull; Henry Cornelius Thomas, Vaux-
hall-road; John Fountain, Cowley, Middlesex; and Alfred
Carpenter, Rothwell, Northampton. Admitted on the 16th
inst : Messrs. Thomas White, Chester ; Edward Long,
Dublin ; Frederick William Wilders, Chesterton, Hunting-
brought
donshire ; George Brennan, Cork ; Nevin Jackson, Stam-
ford, Lincolnshire ; Edward Ralfs, Tunbridge, Kent ;
Thomas Britton, York; John Davis, Sunderland ; Jacobus
!n:qoteueepotwraetriotno
soeft
Silverman, Middlesex place, Paddington ; and Lancelot
Armstrong, Camberwell.
SEQUESTERED BENEFICES.—A Bill has been
into Parliament to amend the law relating to the
that several easeass o passing of the Act of'eci
L r a under the existing law, the bishop of the diocese has
benefices c e s
morefor
tdheabot ..,
001
if.
aa
year
e fifoc er itshsee ques
pay-
ment of curates to discharge the ministerial duties. Front a
are of considerable v I
return which
provide tha in all made to Parliament last year it appears
4004 a year in valuee uestration have taken place sines the
Parliament, and some of these livings
value with several churches. The Bill
tion for the debts Oro in
stsliwhere a benefice which exceeds
may, if he thinks pper, d hereafter be put under sequestra-
:Zebent, the bishop
payment of a curate or curaumt "e- of the aiccese
half the income for the
dam coluieete4 wish the pariih. to discharge the spiritual

J.~ ~

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 20, 1851.
‘f the summer I shall -

Members to have time to see what those amendments really
were? The many-tongued animal the press had lately been
devoting great space to the proceedings of whet was
called the Irish brigade, and remarked on the
dearth of talent in the Irish ranks, asking
where were the Currans, the Grattans, the Sheridans,
the Plunkets? He might well retaliate, and pointing
to the Treasury bench, ask se here were the Foxes—
(Laughter)—the Burkes, and the Pitts? He was one
who liked precedents, and if they were reproached for
wasting the time of the House, which they had not yet
done, he would refer them to an edition of
Lord Brougham's speeches, edited by himself, for the
course which was taken by the party to which the Noble
Lord now at the head of the Government belonged, in
1816, for the protection of the people of this country.
Having read the opinion of Mr. Brougham, when he was
a Member of the House, relative to the propriety of of-
fering every description of opposition to an obnoxious
tax, that example being set by him, and having had his
approval after the lapse of upwards of twenty
years. He should be glad to know whether it
was fair or reasonable of the Noble Lord, and those
who acted with him, to taunt him (Mr. Reynolds) and
those who voted as he voted, with wasting the time
of the House, because he merely did what their bad
policy had given him permission to do. He
trusted the Noble Lord would not object to
the Chairman reporting progress. He wished to
offer no factious opposition to the Bill—A laugh)—
but simply wanted to have time to consider the Bill
in its altered state. If such a concession were made by
the Government, a great deal of time and trouble would
be saved. He therefore felt justified in moving, as an
amendment, that the Chairman now report progress.
Sir GEORGE GREY said he would leave it to the
consideration of the Committee, whether the course
pursued by the Hon. Gentleman was or was not in ac-
cordance vith the understanding which was arrived at
by the House on Friday evening.—(Hear, hear.)
He trusted that the Rouse would not be led into the
discussion of the different topics to which the Hon.
Gentleman had adverted. Whatever might be the ob-
ject of the Hon. Gentleman it could have no other effect
than to prevent the House adopting the arrangement
of Friday night, viz., that they should proceed with the
consideration of the clauses of the Bill.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY seconded the
amendment.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that there were such stringent
regulations in that Bill that if they were to be per-
severed in they would call into question all
the tenets of the Roman Catholic faith.—(gear, hear.)
and cheers.) This was not the same Bill; it was a nee,
Bill, and therefore it ought to go through all the pro-
cesses of a new Bill.—(Hear, hear.) It was not
the Bill at all which the Noble Lord had
first introduced. It was altogether a new Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) He confessed that he was not able to understand
it.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had, with all his
constitutional earnestness, pressed the Bill upon the
House, and yet what had been the effect ?
Why, that the Bill had been entirely changed.
Did he then ask for anything that was unrea-
sonable? Nothing of the kind. He only asked for time
for deliberation. The Ministry, with a large ma-
jority at their back, might, it was true, press for a
consumeetrion of their designs; but, to say the least of
it, it was evidently unconstitutional, and he should
therefore vote for the motion.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE regretted equally the motion and
the necessity for its being made, but it was evident that
a great change had been made, not only in the Bill
itself, but in the spirit of the Bill also, causing ik
to become altogether a different thing to that
which it formerly was. Within the whol,
course of his Parliamentary experience, he hay
never met with anything equal to this, and he did there-
fore feel that they had no right whatever to enter upon
legislation on this subject until they had had advice from
the first law officers of the Crown. Any gentleman
might got up and introduce words which would
altogether_ alter the tenor and the force of the
Rill. How then could they proceed ? This
Bill contained three operative clauses; of these
three two were rendered void. What would they cb.
if his Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for
Midhurst had attacked the Pope's brief itself. He said
that that brief was in itself invalid, and quite illegal.
in this country. This proposition the Ministry had
adopted, and it was therefore plain that nothing souk
be done soundly at least without that legal advice of
which they now stood so much in need. Was it not also
known to the House that there was another rescript from
the Papal authority for the division of the Roman Ca
tholic diocese of Ross, which was now separated from
the diocese of Cloyne. According to this measure Oak
rescript a ould be also void. He, therefore, hoped tha
the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) or the Secretary 4a,
State for the Home Department (fir G. Grey) would in-
form the House as to the legal character and bearings of
the present Bill; and he also wished to know whether
the excluded clause would be brought back to the Bill,
and whether, if so, it would have the retrospective fore,
of anaulling the past rescript of the Pope. and also of de-
feating the late episcopal jurisdiction in Ireland, to which
he had already adverted?
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Committee had two ques-
tions to consider which ought to be kept separate. The
first was the question of the Hon. Member for Dublin,
who had moved that the Chairman should report pro-
gress and ask leave to sit again; and whatever the Noble
Lord the Member for Arundel might say, he could not
agree to that course, because he had no security, when
they came on Friday next to consider the Bill, that the
Noble Lord might not, without any factious motive, pro-
pose that the Chairman should leave the chair; and thus
they would be in no better position than they were at the
present moment. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Gladstone) took another course, and said that in going
into a Bill of so much importance as this, especially
when the first clause was not originally in the Bill, but
bad been lately introduced, some member of the Govern-
ment ought to explain the general scope of the clauses
and what would be their practical effect; and be (Lord
J. Russell) would not deny, if the other questions were
disposed of, that it would be fair, when they came to read
the clause, that the Attorney-General should explain to
the Committee the view which he took of that clause
and what would be its legal effect.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY understood
that the agreement came to on last Friday night was.
that there should be no division on the motion of the
Speaker leaving the chair, but that there was no farther
pledge given on their part; and be should add that, when
the Noble Lord stated that there was no security for a
legitimate discussion, there existed a right for every Hon.
Gentleman to avail himself of all the forms of the House
against so obnoxious a measure.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK contended that the present was a new
Bill altogether, and that it was nothing but just and fair
that its principles soould be considered.
Sir R. H. INGLIS admitted that the law officers of
the Crown_ should explain the nature of the new clause,
particularly as that clause was as improvement in the
Bill.

.AMENT.

Mr. P. HOWARD said that if the Government ac-
ceded to the suggestion of Mr. Gladstone, then Mr.
Reynolds ruight with great propriety withdraw his mo
tion. It they obtained from the law officers of the
Crown a full and distinct explanation of all the bearings
of the upaisure, they could reserve their opposition till
it had reached a future stage.
Mr. lIORSMAN said that if the Hon. Member fol
Dublin would withdraw his motion so as to enable the
statement to be made by the Attorney-General, is ac-
cordance with the suggestion of the Right Hon. Gentle
man opposite (Alr..Gladstone), to which the Noble Lord
had acceued, the Hon. Member would not be in a worse
positio❑ than he was at present. As some misunder-
standing seemed to exist as to what happened on Friday
last, and as he was present o❑ the occasion he wished to
observe that the statement of his Noble Friend behind
him (Lord Arundel and Surrey) as to the arrangement
entered into on that occasion was correct. The Hon.
Gentlemen who were concerned in the arrangement
stated, on that occasion, that they agreed to the Noble
Lord's suggestion, on condition that on Monday they
would not be bound by it, beyond the question that the
Speaker do leave the chair, and to that condition the
Noble Lord assented.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that what be had stated
was, that when they came to the first clause the At
torney-General would make a statement with respect to
the bearing and legal effects of that clause. That did
not touch the question of the preamble.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought that if the motion of
the Hon. Member for Dublin was within the strict let-
ter, it was nut within the spirit of the arrangement.
That arrangement was that no opposition should be
made to the Speaker leaving the chair; but having
agreed to the Speaker leaving the chair, what possible
use was there in demanding that he should be put into it
again immediately, for that was the object of the motion
of the Hon, Member for Dublin? He thought the Hon.
Gentleman ought to allow the first reading of the Bill,
and on the question that it be read a second time the
Attorney-General should make his statement. Ile
thought the Noble Lord bad hardly kept faith with the
House. For having before Easter called on all Hon
Gentlemen who had amendments to propose in the Bill
to place them on the paper, and that after the Easter re-
cess he would state which of them he would accept and
which reject, the Noble Lord, on the House assembling
after the recess, stated that he would not accept the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Midhurat. Yet the
Noble Lord had sent the Attorney-General to the Hon.
Member for Midhurst in order to " cook up" a new Bill
with him; but it appeared they could not agree upon it.
However, as the House did not know at the present mo-
ment where in the Bill the Hon. Member for Midhurst
meant to place his amendments, that of itself consti-
tuted a ground for asking a few days' delay. Ho sug-
gested that the Hon. Member withdraw his motion, and
that they should at once have the statement of the Attor•
ney- General.
_ _

Mr. B. ROCHE took the same view of the arrange-
ment of Friday night as the Noble Lord (Arundel and
Surrey).

.Mr. KEOGH said that the arrangement had been
made between him and the Noble Lord, and if ho con-
ceived he were violating the spirit of that arrangement
in supporting the motion of the Hon. Member for
Dublin, ho would not vote for it. But he was convinced
that that motion violated neither the spirit nor the letter
of that understanding; neither bad the Noble Lord ac-
clued them of such a thing, but the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Sir George Grey) hinted it. What happened
4as this. lie asked the Noble Lord to consent to the
re-printing of the Bill; the Noble Lord at first refused,
and the House now saw that he (Mr. Keogh) had just
and reasonable grounds for that request. The Nobls
Lord afterwards consented, on condition that on Monday
he should be placed in the same position with respect to
the 13111 as be was then; he (Mr. Keogh) agreed, pro-
vided that he and his friends should also be put in
the same position—namely, that on the Sihaker
leaving the chair they should make every species of
opposition to the Bill that they deemed expedient. That
was the arrangement agreed to, and he insisted it had
not been Niolated in El irit er letter t.y them
. As re•

-------
garded the proposition just made by the Noble Lord he which had already been decided? He wanted toe/,
understiiod the MA:it Lord adtuitied the justice of the whether the some em-ct would he produied
Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Gladstone'e) appeal, for , as it stood then, us was intended by the Bill as it or
he had said that if they took one step, it was but right itett.
luny stood. His supposition, of course, was lima
that he himself or the Attorney General should make a I
but he certainly supposed that the first clause W °
statement. Now the Chairman of Committees had just have that effect,
informed him that it was necessary to move that the Bill The SOLICITOR-GENERAL explained that If
be read a first and second time, because of the alterations objection which led to the withdrawal of the
:e v,
made in it; but that if it were the same Bill it would not clause was, that it had a retrospective
effect of a
o_ottt
be necessary. Tho Noble Lord had adopted a great por- gerous character. The Roman Catholic prelates 1;10t
don of the Hon. Member for Midaurst's amendment; land said, that under what they conceived to be tbe if
let the Attorney-General then make his statement, and struction of the Act of 1829, they had retained theyc,
afterwards let them adjourn the question to Friday next, clesiastical titles, which ware forbidden by that
It
in order that they might have an opportunity of fully They considered that they were quite right in 59 It tr,
considering the provisions of the Bill as amended. The itig the Act, and therefore requested that they might
Noble Lord had undertaken to have the Bill reprinted, left in the same position as it placed them in. Nu v
but it had not been delivered to Hon. Members until late (the Solicitor-General) entertained great doubt as
.ti
that morning. On that ground alone they were entitled whether they had acted rightly under
That Acrl.Dbui
to have it adjourned,
whether that were so or not, if these
Mr. WALPOLE said that he had given notice of his I under the old Act, they would c intinue to be so
otilij
amendments on the second reading of the Bill; and ' and if they were wrong under the old Act, the/relived it
they had been put on the paper before the Easter re- be equally wrong now. All that had been cone . O.
prelates were rig
tress, so that it could not be with justice said that the striknig out the second clause. If the Pope could era
House was taken by surprise with respect to those coed, let them proceed. There was no clause therehe
amendments. After the Easter recess the Noble Lord prohibit him, and as it was matter of doubt whether.'4
stared that he did not object in principle to the first could legally proceed, he was entitled to the boleti,"
clause, which he (Mr. Walpole) proposed, for that it the doubt.
was in tubttance already contuined in the Bill. He - Mr. GLADSTONE said the Hon. and Learned Gougisc;
(Mr. Walpole) met the Attorney-General by accident in tletnan had not answered his question as to what /Irish,
the street, and spoke to him on the subject of his be the effect of the clause, not with reference to
amendments, wondering that the phut therein suggested but English sees.
had not been adopted by the Government. On the fol- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL AL replied that Eingisibsile
lowing day he had a conversation with the Attorney- Roman Catholic bishops would stand in Precise Yttood•
General on the subject of his amendments, a portion of tame way as the Irish Roman Catholic bisbcPsirs alio
which the Government objected to, and another or- If Irish bishops were right English bishops rieu
Lion they did not object to. But, until he came down be right, hut, he had hie doubts.
et gs ill
on Friday last, the Government were under no arrange - Mr. M'CULLAGH said the Pope's proceeern se d
!neat with him either to reject or accept them. How relation to the bishopric of Ross was not the first ease
new
there could be any such compromise, he could not the kind, for in the diocese of Galway there ria9,-oces•
understand, for he approved of the principle of the Bill, bishopric, created under precisely similar circuMstte was
and he could see nothing objectionable in an Hun. Why, then, was that case not taken up if the' sc" •
ed Gen
Member who supported a Bill communicating with the illegal? He did not think the Hon. and Learns- es.
Attorney-General, who had the conduct of the Bill, in tletnan had answered the Right Hon. Gentlenisn.A's gird
order to see how fiir any amendments he meant to pro- :ion, whether the subtraction of the second 51'" oa of
pose in the Bill were objectionable or not,
clauses was a real change, and whether the retold
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—It was the Noble Lord himself the first clause really did not tend to invalidate evert ts
who had stated he had sent the Attorney-General to the act done by Roman Catholic bishops since their sPc°ll;
a re
Hon. Member for Midhurst.
talent and the passing of the Act of 1829. Tiler" most
Lord J. RUSSELL—The Hon. and Learned Gentle. very grave do
rite on this point raised by tbehrlecl
man had said very truly that he had met the Attorney- learned authorities in the law, and it therefore doubt,
General by accident, and the latter had most properly the legal advisers of the Crown to grapple with the ric,ll, at
told him (Lord J. Russell) that he had some conversation and to decide the question at once--to decide "tt
with the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhurst with fact, in that House.—(Hear, hear.) The House °ugh,
respect to his amendments, but he did not wish to tom- to know whether it was the Bill of February, of itieser
muuicate further with him without his (Lord J. Russell's) of April, or the fourth Bill, a combination of thse-d re
authority. He (Lord J. Russell) did not give him any Bills—the Bill of May—they were discussing. He eisiteedi,
explicit directions on the matter, but gave him his autho- deal with the doubt he had referred to on broad growl°,
city to communicate with the Hon. and Learned Gentle- and he hoped the House would require its clear seius
were
man respecting it.
If violations of the Act of 1829 had occurred, why
ant
Mr. HUMS said the question was, whether the ex la- they suffered to sleep up to this moment? tf the Plltlibts
nation asked for should be given on the motion that the Bill was not a persecuting Act, why were the
d°,-; to
preamble be postponed, or on the first clause. It ap- about the first clause not cleared up? With respect peered to him a matter of very little importance on which the Bequests Act, he contended, though it did not ter .
an ero
it was given.
the Act of 1829, yet having been recognised by ‘-'sliaea
After a few words from Mr. S. CRAWFORD, tnent and by Sir Edward Sugden, such a
'see.recogn
Mr. MOORE reminded the House that the Lion. Mem- amounted to a. virtual abnegation of the Act of e
her for Athlone had a notice on the paper of a motion Whatever the words of the Bequests Act, 1130% bed
with respect to the postponement of the preamble, and it really and actually intended to give validity to what was quite impossible therefore to accede to the postpone- been done by the Roman Catholic bishops, even 4'lo
ment of the preamble now.
ys
it was in presumed contravention of the Act of 1829'
lion respecting Friday night's arrangement,
atte
Mr. REYNOLDS would not enter into an exit hpiana- wanted to know what were to become of boclup/ie
ad granted to bishops in trust, and to their successors?
its
oeen already explained by the Hon. and Learned Mein- believed that question had not yet been dealt with ate
her for Athlone. He was prepared to withdraw his entirety. The way in which the clause would Oft
motion only on the specific understanding that the At- would not so much punish the usurper of titles, as Prod
;orney-General should be permitted to explain the Bill (eased to do—as it would operate against the wishes S
as amended, and after that explanation was made, that intentions of the pious and humble Roman Citholic.ot
no iurther progress should be attempted by the Govern- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said this was eves
went with the Bill until Friday,
the place to discess legal questions—(oh)—but he 'the
Lord J. RUSSELL could nut agree to the proposition quite ready to state his opinion in explanation of ;be
of the Hon. Gentleman.
question in issue. However learned and specific r,
The amendment was then negatived without a division, opinions on the question obtained by the Hon. Metabed
The amended Bill was then read a first and second he must take leave to doubt that such mischief as h%
time.
been stated would fl iw from the measure. The effecs
On the question that the preamble be postponed, of the clause, as be had already stated, was to Put t
lir. REYNOLDS moved that the Chairman report certain class of trustees under the operation of there
progress.
10th Geo. IV. Now, he would ask whether any -se,
The Committee then divided, when there appeared— mischief had hitherto resulted from that Act? Prile;f
For the amendment ... .. ... 46 sally it had not, and he should say that the wording be
Against it ... ... ... ... 262 that Act might fairly be taken as a counterpart of ta.
Majority
result and operation of the working of the present-Ins ,
The preamble was postponed accordingly,
sure. If money were to be left for the purpose of 'Ali_
On the first clause being put from the chair, dewing a bishopric, and prohibited titles were used,
The AT fORNEY-GENERAL, understanding it was then he wen ed that the operation of the 113,1
the general wish of the House he should make a state- sure would area such a bequest—but if the ',,r
went of the legal effect of the provisions of the Bill, quest was left in different terms, then dins.
felt it to be his duty to do so on the present occasion. lent consequences would follow. If, is coal,
In the first place, he totally and entirely disagreed with v.-ration of the law, a bequest was made in terms sebian,
those Hon. Members who said that the Bill was a new an Act of Parliament declared should make such bequestt
Bill. The only clause to which he proposed to attach illegal and void—then the party so leaving the be title: 0
any observations, in the first instance, was the first must take the consequences of his own act. If t-h
clause, as that was the clause alleged to contain certain bequest were left for charitable Purposes, even though
matter which made the Bill a wew measure. He wat, left in an illegal form, a court of equity would only louts
however, prepared to show that this clause effected no to the intentions of the testator. If titles were untie ist
alteration whatever in reality in the character of the relation to persons who were to carry out the intil
Bill; but that, on the contrary, it left that measure sub- of the testator, which were illegal, the Court would still
1 etantially the same as befere. As the Bill stood before, give eff,ct to the intentions of the testator. The Court
she preamble recited " that whereas certain of her Ma- would riot let an incorrect designation interfere with
jesty's subjects, by virtue of a pretended authority of the the leaving of money for charitable purposes. So, there'
See of Rome, had asenmed titles out of provinces, diu- tore, the present measure would not be attended with
ceses, and towns in her Majesty's kingdoms." It then the mischief which had been predicted, and the opinions
went on to refer to the Act 10 (leo. IV., c. 7, in which of the legal persons to the contrary would not be found
was to be found an enactmeut providing against the ea- to he correct. The Act of 10 Geo. IV, had been in ope*
sumption of any such style or title as regarded pro- ration 22 years; that Act made the assumption of titles
vicces and dioceses already occupied by the Church of by Remota Cathelio bishops illegal, yet bequests had froth
England, making it an offence, and affixing thereto a that time been wade to Roman Catholic bishops for chg.
penalty. After this, it proceeded to recite that the at- ritatsle purposes; and he would ask, had there been found
'tempt to establish such style and titles having been made, any practical difficulty or inconvenience in adminis-•
t declared it expedient to prohibit such assumption, tering those charities? If there had been, let the fact
and then went on to recite the penalty fixed in the 'e brought before the Reuse, and it would be dealt
second clause as applicable to the case.. Th, w:th at once. But no difficulty or inconvenience as
second clause made the assumption of titles not indult d yet had been felt, and it was therefore not reason
in the 10th Geo. IV., c. 7, illegal; iu other words, it able to expect that it would be found with regard
placed provinces, cities, and towns not appropriated b.} to the Be quests Act—that it, provided no violation of
the Established Cnurch on the same tooting as those in the law gave invalidity to the intentions of the testator.
that Act, subjecting those who took such titles to the He would remind Hon. Gentlemen how cautiously the
same penalty as was provided by that statute. The other Act had been framed—the words were ,
would apply to
But the class of cases under discussion, because it was e-sens
•' exercising or
clause—that originally suggested by the Hon. and
efficieting within the district." This
Learned Member for Midhurst—was the clause which ii
,
was suggested created a new Bill of the measure,
tial that the religious intentions of ter Majesty's Roman i
that clause was purely declaratory. It embodied outs Catholic subjects should he properly carried out. The
the recitals in the preamble, which went to say that cer- Bequests Act was carefully framed, so as to leave the
tain persons had done a certain thing which ought to be Roman Catholic bishops untouched so long as no in"
preveuted; and it merely asserted that this recital should fraction of the law was committed, by giving to theta
be held legally valid. The first clause, which was suge itles by law prohibited. This, however, was not the
gusted by the Hon. and Learned Member, might strike place to enter upon an elaborate legal argument; he,
the House as superfluous, but li great desire had been ex- however, thought it advisable to state his candid opinion
pressed that it should be adopted to mark the sense of the on the question.
country on the subject. nacre was an invasion—and it Mr. NAPIER said that when the proper time arrive
d
was desired that there should be a declaration of Perlis- he should be fully prepared to answer many of the argu-
ment on the subj ct to go forth to the world. It ap- merits which had been offered in Opposition to this Bill.
peered to him (the Attorney-General) to add nothing to Mr. M. GIBSON said that as a great deal of, doubt
the Bill, as far aspunishment for the offence was in ques seemed to be entertained as to the operation of this Bill,
non, or us far as the penalty was concerned, while it it behoved them at p to duce provisions
gave a more solemn form to the declaration.
As into the Bill as wouldresent obviate anyintro future such
teisinterpreta-
it was no hardship, and gave some satheaction to a tion. At prevent a Scotch bishop was exempt from the
great number of persona, to vindicate the national consequences which attached to the same offence in
Sovereignty, there could not, in his opinion, be any England and in Ireland, though for what principle he
possible harm in adopting it. The Bill, however, wus could not tell. On the e6th of October, 1851, the
no new Bill. Tho clause was only what it purported to clauses submitted to the Roman Catholic School Cern'
be—a recital of the preamble, and giving it more expli- mittee by her Majesty's Committee of Privy Council on
' tidy. With regard to the second clause, it had been Educa'ion recegrused in tsetne the Roman Catholic
already so much diseu-sed, that he could not understand t ishop of ecclesiastical districts which was a subject
bow any person could fail to see its bearings. It that deaaanded explanation. The priest so ordained is
Amounted to this—that the Act 10 Geo. IV., which no. ,c) manage the religious instructions of those schools,A
applied in terms only to titles already appropriated by and no priest is to interfere who is not authorised
.by
the Established Church, was proposed to be applied to the Roman Catholic bishop of the district. Then, he
titles not so appropriated. An attempt was made to said. that if the Privy Council actually agreed to that
parcel out England into provinces and dioceses by art in November lest, atter the Papal brief had been pub-
authority which had no foundation in the constitution, lished, does it not seem monstrous that now they should
and to assume tides and dignities as arising out of these be legislating to fine a man a hundred pounds if he
divisions, at the instance of a foreign power. The clause called himself a Roman Catholic bishop of a district?—
proposed these titles abould be void; and that the places (Hear, hear.) An Act more complex and difficult
from whence they purported to be derived should be put than this to understandh
to the same category as those places referred to in the Sir FREDERICK TR hak never heard.
E SIG ER begged to recal the
10th Geo. IV. It did no more and no less. And when House to the question before it, which was, whether the
it was urged that this clause would interfere with the preamble should be. postponed for further consideration?
1
operation of the Charitable Bequests Act, the simple He
hhad never. considered this as a new Bill. The object
to enable have fuller d.
motion was them to a is-
answer to that allegation was, that the 10th George IV. of t.
etalagisgeßsitll,thoratrathtr this portion of the Bill.
did not interfere with it, and this clause applied only to cusswwiasnuai
they should be allowed to titles not included in that Act. He (the Attorney- He
was of
pro-
General) should be trifitng with the time and patience of teed to toutoheeduisEcussasigido.ntlhoaft ththeeprAeattmarbnlee.y. the House if he added another word to the legal explana- T. .
tion which he ass called on to give, as', after the long opimon
Bill, but
btuluts 41._
jumped
endo
tghreeatLeerasrncoepde
stohlaineittehne.
discussion which the Bill had undergone, nothing new
former
and said that this Blew clause. was more powerful
than anything in the old Bill, and it would extend to
could be said by him on the subject.
Mr. P. HOWARD contended that the. Bill was essen-
_ Clot iocese had been for ages united to the
tially a new Bill, If it were not so, it would not have Ireland. Now, what would be its effect on the diocese
ytned:
been read a first and a second time by the Chairman.
He ought to know something about
diocese of T
Besides, the date on the amended Bill was altered. Now,.
was in his district. The practical
by the Go- result of uniting Rossand
the Bill being a new Bill, he considered that the House that diocese, as it
Cloyne was, that the spiritual
had not been treated with sufficient candour
posed to rennyerPrtre
almost What did the
vernment. who submitted it in a printed form that morn- cure of the two dioceses Was carried out more efficiently.
oils
anion
i et
no doof btyhestehitswßoill
ing, and forced on a discussion of its provisions
immediately afterwards.
the law How could the Bill?
dioceses They
illegal.
l epgraT.
Mr. K. SEYMER called the attention of
B
Hon. and Learned Gentleman the
Bill de- Attern .
officers of the Crown to the fact, that while the .
Emancipation e-eral, get up in his place and say that the
dared illegal the bull or letters Apo i I
stol-a re-sting to Act had been the law of the land in Ire-
what similar land for England, it omitted
all reference to a Some two and twenty years. Practically, it had never
bull or Papal rescript under which the diocese of Ross been carried
Into effect in Ireland. The more they
land. If leg mod&
d with this Bill the' deeper they would get into
had recentl been constituted
injjreisla.
'necessary for he 're tion in express terms were considered e mi.,
upholding the independence of nationalthe.twasequally
i sovereignty Mr. PIIILLI? HOWARD said. the suggestion of the
in England, he certainly thought i
Ireland, where 111-
Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Milner Gibson) was
portant it should be adopted for
the Queen persons of
bywar a very valuable one, that they should now- explain how,
d Roman Ca-
had actually been levied against
when the Privy Council lately recogniSe
suffering thepenalty
sdine station; Wha-Were-now
man who called himself Roman Catholic bishop of a
crimes.
NERAL said the answ
The SOLICITOR-GE er to the diocese a hundred pounds.
..
was question of the Hon. Gentleman
.simple, Under Lord BERNARD said, the mere ques_tion at issue
the Statute of Ptaemunire, acts
.performed
in accordance was, what was the attack of the Bishop of Rome on this
with the directions of Papal rescripts or foreign bulls country? It was a direct attack on the of
were declared to be illegal. In the time of James 11. our Queen. Had not he termed the glorious matrefoion
Lalor was punished for such an offence; and since that the Anglican schism? In the early Church the appoint-
period—although two centuries and a half bad elapsed ment of bishops remained with the people at large. Af-
-up to the recent aggression, no subject of the British terwards it fell into the hands of the clergy, and now,
Crown had dared to act upon the dictum of a foreign in this country, it had practically fallen into the hands
bull. The Pope's recent rescript, being the first for two of the Crown. What he wished to dwell upon was this
centuries and a half, which hal
practical effect in this —that the family of Stuart being extinct, whose title to
country, it was thought proper to declare it, and all acts nominate these bishops was not denied, the present ap-
performed by reason of its directions, illegal and void. pointment by the pope,. without on the Sove-
But it did not follow that because they had done so in reign, was a virtual denial of the rights of our present
this particular instance, it was necessary to declare all Gracious Sovereign.
theTherh was one word more which
the minor instruments which followed from the same ho had to say upont.tsuleect. It was said the feelings
quarter illegal and void, when they were so by existingthe
of people were indifferent on was subject. such.was
statute. Ile considered the most dignified course was to not the case in Ireland; but they thought it was a wiser
England policy to leave the subject to be decided by the Imperial
take up the monstrous instrument dividing
into diocenes, and having specifically declared its ille- Parliament, but they felt the greatest indignation against
gality, to leave all similar instruments to be dealt with the atrocious attempt of the Court of Rome, and he
as
illegal,
would give his support. to any efficient measure to re-
ain the insidious attempts' 'the
Mr. G.LADSTONE said he could not perceive that strain
mac against t
Pro-
this was a declaratory clause. Declaratory clauses in testae,
.religion,
that Mr. 1. DUNCOMBE asked the Noble Lord at tbe
legislative enactments usually succeeded a recital
head of the Government to inform . .
the state of the law was doubtful; but here nothing of
their Bill, with- were upon the actual question before them;- What did
the sort was done. They declared by
act of the the Noble Lord mean
out reference to any other matter, that the
.i by saying in his Bill that e the
to said rescript 'wa -
Pope was illegal, and he confessed that this appeared
to him script? lie did s 1 egal and void!" Where wasehe re-
not see. it; it was not on the tabs'. nf the
him to bea very unusual proceeding. It seemed
whether House..--
.li lose to understand ow could they diseuss it unless le nits laid
that parties would be at a lo
but if it weren de- beforethene? . --
- . -
this was a declaratory clause or not;
t_ 4
Lot,}
irt
.
fordeclaring a, ,• . USSELL thought it was Ittlet7ttaktetter
claratory clause, what need was therel2
sese sees esa ass , •
-1- sseei