The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-13 00:00:00

TIE SUN; LONDON WEDNESDAY EVENING, PERRITARY 13 Iftss.

N

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granted by the Government. Time would be saved by
adopting that course.
Sir J. WA INSLEY supported the postponement of
the second reading. He believed that this bill, like the
last, would be strongly opposed and ultimately thrown
out.

?std.

aiII.WATI;

Lzaximg
Compan.

Cicadae enc.
thi Si iy.

itmeinesb
tilts day.

Sir G. GREY consented to the postponement of the
second readi,g, and fixed this day fortnight for its being
again brought forward, or as soon after as possible,
should that day be found to be inconvenient.
After some further discussion the amendment was
carried.

The second reading was accordingly postponed.
JOINT•STOCK BANKS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill, comprising only a preamble :►nd one clause,
passed through committee without opposition.
ORDNANCE DEPARTMENTS.

On the motion of Colonel DUN NE, retuins
were ordered of all persona in the Ordnance Depart-
ments who have retired since the lst-day of Jan. 1853,
or been transferred from their offices to others by pro-
motion or otherwise, stating► the age. service, cause of
retirement, or transfer, together with the retiring allow-
ance granted in each case, and in case of transfer or pro-
motion the office to which each individual was
transferred, and the salary of the office vacated
and of that to which each person has been appointed
similar return for the War Department, and all offices
under its control : and return of the names of officers,
civil and military, and of all other persons employed in
the department for.cloehing the army, stating the date
of each appointment, previous employment (if any), and
the age and salary in-each-care.
The house adjourned at five minutes to three o'clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

Great Weatera Railway of Ireland ; Prisoners' Dia-
charge Society.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY).
THE WENSLEYDALE PEERAGE.

ICOMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGES.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at two o'clock.
Among the peers present were Lord Lyndhurst,
Lord Campbell, Lord Redeadale, Duke of Argyll, Earl
of Derby, Earl Granville, Lord St. Leonards, Earl of
Hardwicke, Lord Colchester, Lord Abinger, and Lord
Brougham.
On th• motion of Lord LYNDHURST the House re•
solved itself into a Committee of Privileges, on which
the Lord CiLiNcELLOl.lef; the Woolsack and took his
seat on the Ministerial aide of the House.
Lord RsDeeDALE then presided.

1 - THE LAW OF DEBT.
Mr. MALINS gave notice of his intaation to intro-
duc 3 a bill to do away with the present distinction be-
tween special and simple contract debts.
gALARIES OF COUNTY COURT JUDGES.
Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice that on that day fort•
night he would move for leave to bring in a bill to rep-
late the salaries of county court judges.

SANDHURST COLLEGE.
Colonel NORTH asked what steps bad been taken br
, the Government (in accordance with the promise roads
bet year) to carry into effect the recommendation of the
Committee on Sandhurst College for the admission c:.!
10 additional cadets into the orphan class at that este
blishment ? -
Mr. F. PEEL said no steps had been taken to fill up
the proposed cadetships, because it was thought better
to let it stand over for the present.
PREVENTION OF RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Mr. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD asked the Viers--
President of the Board of Trade whether it was Ilia in-
tention to propose, during the present session, any ineel-
sure for the prevention of accidents on railways ; and
also, as it appeared from the proceedings in reference to
the report of the officer appointed, to, inquire into the
condition of the Eastern Counties Rail way, that, tkongb
the Board of Trade had the power to direct inquiries into
the condition of any line of railway, it had no power to
compel the repairs that may be absolutely necessary
for the security of the public, whether it was his in tea.
tion to introduce any measure for the purpose of invest-
ing the Board of Trade with the authority necessary for
the purpose ?
Mr. LOWE said it was the intention of the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade to introduce hie bill of last
session, with reference to railway accidents. The second
part of the question was under discussion.
In answer to a question from Mr. M'MAION,
Mr. HORSMAN said it was not his intention to
bring in any measure for facilitating the reclamation of
Irish waste lands ; neither did he intend to bring is
any measure to amend the Irish grand jary system.
Colonel W. PATTEN asked whether the joint com-
mission agreed to in the month of August last by the
Emperor of Morocco and her Majesty's Minister Ibleai-
potentiary, to arrange a commercial treaty, had yet set,
and, if not, what was the cause of the delay 3
Lord PALMERSTON said that in consequence of
some deity on the part of the Emperor of Morocoo,
which he explained, the treaty alluded to had not yet
been arranged.
REGULATION OF THE NAT?.
Mr. BRADY asked the First Lord of the Admiralty
if he intended altering the regulations in her Majesty's
navy, by which the following officers were at present
not allowed to hare the distinguishing mark of gold
lace on the cuffs of their undress coats, thereby reducing
them to a level with the inferior grades of officers, vie.:
Inspectors and deputy inspectors of hospitals, staff sur-
geons, surgeons and assistant surgeons, paymasters and
assistant paymasters ?
Sir C. WOOD said the regulation of naiforca for the
navy was under consideration.
SARDINIA. AND THE EAST.

Lord LYNDHURST said his present course now

was to prove the unconstitutional stretch of the prero-
gativo in granting life peerages. He proposed that the
records relating to this question should be translated
and punted and circulated among their lordships.
Lord CAMPBELL said he wag anxious Lord Wens-

leydale should be heard by counsel, but as that motion
could not then be made, he should make it after five
o'clock when the house had resumed its ordinary sittings.
Lord ST. LEONARDS did not object to the motion.
It should be considered who should appear to resist this
attempt. It was the duty of the Crown to watch the
claims of persons claiming to sit in that house ; but in
this case the Crown was in favour of the noble lord
taking his seat, and therefore 0301 d not be said to be an
impartial advocate. It would be as well to consider for
whom counsel should be heard.
Upon the notion of Lord LYNDHURST, the Keeper
of the Records at the Tower was cAlled to the bar of the
House, and produced the patent of the Earl of Hunting-
don, which he read, granted in the reign of Richard
IL, and the words used in the patent were, "sna vita
duranti."

The witness proceeded to read the various patents and
documents, when
The LORD CHANCELLOR reminded the house
that the usual practice of the house in Committee of
Privileges was for the documents to be handed in and
thereby save the time of their lordships. He reminded
their lordships that it was necessary they should pro-
ceed with rapidity in the case, because it was the in-
tention of Lord Wensleydale, as soon as he was re-
covered from an attack of the gout, to present himself
at their lordships' house with her Majesty's writ and
claim to take his seat.

Lord CAMPBELL said if that was the intention of Lord
Wensleydale, he should move that he be not permitted
to take his seat until the Committee of Privileges should
have made their report on the validity of the patent.
He believed the Lord Chancellor was the only person
who considered the writ could be of any avail without
a valid patent.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said it mattered not
whether the patent was a valid one or not. Lori Wens-
leydale, he considered, was bound to obey her Majesty's
writ of summons.
Lord BROUGHAM said that it was the intention of
Lord Wensleydale to come to town as soon as possible
and take his seat. To use his own words, "as soon as
the law and the gout will allow me." (Laughter.)
.

Mr. LAYARD asked the First Lord of the Treasury
if the report with reference to the exclusion of Sardinia
foom the lists conferences atConstantinople wail tree, and
if Sardinia had protested in consequence
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Conferenoes al-
luded to had reference only ti the fourth point, that of
the arrangements to be made by the Sultan in favour
of his eon-Mussulmen subjects and to the principalities.
Sardinia had not been communicated with on the
subject, it being considered not a question affecting the
peace negotiations, but to be decided on by the Sultan
independently, Sardinia applied to be admitted, but
the representatives of France and England having no
instructions on the point, Sardinia therefore was not
present at the conferences.
MUNICIPAL REFORM BILL (SCOTLAND).
Leave was given to Mr. EwART to bring in a bill to
extend the provisions of Scottish Municipal Reform Act
to certain Royal Burghs in Scotland now excluded from
_the benefits of that act.
PUBLIC JUSTICE.

Lord ST. LEOPARDS said he felt certain that if
Lord Wensleydale came with a proper patent, entailing
t'.ie title on his heirs male, he would be readily and
gladly received ; but if he persisted in taking his seat
otherwise, the opinion of their lordships' house must be
taken on the question. _
GItEY suggested that the noble lord (Lynd-
hurst) should have the assistance of a noble lord, to pre-
pare the precedents he relied on, and print them for
the consideration of their lordship's, and subscribe a
formal resolution to the house thereon.
Lord BROUGHAM concurred in the suggestion of
the noble earl, and said he thought it not desirable then
to enter into a discussion of whether Lord Wensleydale
should or should not be permitted, on the Queen's writ,
to take his seat.

Mr. NA.PIER moved the following l•esolution :
"That in the opinion of this house, as a measure of ad-
ministrative reform, provision should be made for as
efficient and respomible Department of Public Justice,
with a view to secure the skilful preparation and proper
structure of Parliamentary bills, and promote the pro-
o,reseive amendineut of the laws of the United Kingdom."
The hon. and learned member said lee rue for the purpose of
redeeming a pledge which he gave in the last session with re-
gerd,to what must be a matter of great importance to the
people of
,this country, namely. the framing of their laws.
This was not an isolated or departmental question ; the into.
rests of the whole community were involved; and it was
surely the duty of that house to adopt the best means of
improving the current legislation of the country. Lot the
house observe the magnitude of the evil which they bad to
grapple with. The state of the laws at present was, he said ad-
visedly, disgraceful to a civilised country like this. They had
first their common law and customs, scattered over he knew
not how many volumes and traditions, They had three differ-
ent systems of law, to which every session was adding,
for England, Ireland, and Scotland. So far as Scatlant
was concerned, he would do her the justice to say
that she gave the Legislature very little trouble. As
regarded Ireland-, ho must say there was no
part of the United Kingdom which suffered more from the
state of the laws and the state of current legislation, identity
between legislation for England and that for Ireland was the
**option rather than the rule, and towards midnight the pe-
culiar system of legislation to which that country was sub-
jected occupied a large portion of the time.of the house. The
number of public statutes applying to England and Ireland,
exclusive of local and private acts, was 18,284. This was in
addition to the common law, which. was common to both
countries. There were 34 volumes of English and 19 vo-
lume, of Irish acts. Before the Union there were 2,263
public statutes peculiar to Ireland, and 1,300 had been added
sines. The system of double legislation which prevailed
created the greatest inconvenience, and inflicted great evils
upon society. Lord Bacon remarked on the accumulation of
the statutes in his own time, though the number was then only
2,572. He had there a book which showed that in the reign
of her present Majesty there had been more public statutes
passed than existed down to the reign of Elizabeth, Some of the
statutes which remained unrepealed were absurd and ludic-
rous in the extreme. For example, one statute imposed
a penalty on Irish prelates for bringing any Irishman to Par-
liament ; another imposed a penalty for carrying coals to
Newcastle. (Laughter.) Another prohibited any Irishman
from coming toEngland without a testimonial from the Lord-
Lieutenant ; another forbad any person keeping more than
2,000 sheep ; another had reference to abstinence from neat,
in Lent. These were mere samples of the mass of obsolete sta-
tutes. The statute law commission gave a list of 10,947
statutes which *ere either repealed or obsolete. A resolution
was passed by that house last I'ecr fir sweeping away all this
mass of obsolete legislation. But had that been clonal On the
contrary, the noble lord at the head of the Government, ,hoe
asked a question on the subject the other night, said the task
far exceeded the powers of the present Government—an an-
swer which did not afford much hope of any attuspt at int-
provernent by the Administration, and which therefore jug
titled the attempt which ho himself was now making. 114
sots were passed during the last session. Thus the process
of accumulation was still going on ; and the weight el law
under which the country had been so long groaning was Mill
increasing. It was remarkable that while so many abortive
attempts at improvement in this respect had been made in
this country, the object sought had been accomplished is
ether countries and at other periods. The JustinianGode was
perfected in loss than four yea*, and the Code Napoleon in
102 sittings. There was a more modern instance is the Uric
of New York. In that state a complete digest had been made
of the statute book, incorporating so much of the common
law as was inseparable from the statute-book. The whole was
reduced to three octavo volumes ; and the Judge of the Su-
preme Court of New York, Mr. Parker, said that, on the whole,
the consolidation was highly successful, and popular with the
profession. Lord Bacon made proposals to James the First
for the consolidation of the laws, observing, that he thought
he should best show his gratitude to hie Majesty for making
him Attorney-General by reducing and re-compiling the
laws of England. It was often said that obsolete statutes did.
no harm; but, in opposition to this view, Lord Bacon re-
marked, that by leaving on the statute-book acts which were
unsuited to the spirit of the times in which they lived, the
Legislature weakened the authority of the ether laws, and the
living died in the arms of the dead. One important point
was to fix the boundary of legislation, to determine wiser*
legislation should stop, and where reason, education, and re-
ligion should be left to exercise their influence. In 1787 Har-
grave alluded to the increased costs of the accumulation of
the statutes, and observed that were Bacon and Hale alive
they would not be unconcerned spectators of those evils.
Since that period the statutes had doubled in number.
eesarwalBBplr6opaosordesaonludtcioanuieind of classifying iotyfingtor4thz
ethtaetuyt in the
end an address to the Crown on the subject woe
sgsed
7a 1846
to, a e
40,15a8t5wsotarktuitfessihradRobsei
inicerebeeLenoneaddolkif 'the
' I
monuments of his practical statesmanship and ability
—the consolidation of the criminal code Sir Rq'Hrt
Peel availed himself of the best assistance in the perfermlinco
arecactordpiunbglliyc, thadoyaanttteamzeptwa t
once derived from the classification nta
of his task ; he declared that lawyers came to his aid ut the
fula.id
of offences into 'fiances
mwaossterageinneeruotai; manner
against the person, offences against property, and so on.
That change, though eery good as far as it went, affected
only the criminal law. In 1833, Lord Brougham, then Chan-
t calor, appointed a commission. The commission mad, a re-
port in 1835, but noticing was done in consequence. There
had been e. great deal of advice on the subject, ant •
great deal of pointing out what ought to be done ; but what
Parliament wanted was that something should be .don..
(Hear.) In 1843 Lord Brougham addressed letters to thp eight
lion. baronet the member for Carlisle (Sir J.Graham), who took
a great interest in the subject when he was at the head. of the
Home-ollice. In Feb., 1853, the present Lord Chancellor pro-
posed to Parliament an admirable plan for coneslidating
the statute law. He proposed to begin with expurgation.
to proceed afterwards to classiticatioit, then to consolidation.
and lastly he proposed to set up a standard of new legislation.
H. (lLr. Napier) thought that if that proposal had been iat-
perly carried out, the result would have been benefi
e
present there was a double system of legislation for England
aid Ireland, and had the statutes of the two coon ri
the tam' esulte
consolidated into one imperial statute cede the
however, that
might have been anticipated. It now appeared,the Chancellor pro-
the very first step in the process, iu which
ly, the preparation
bably expected no difficulty in 1853
nairtewore not prepared
of a bill—was one which the Government wore
stated the other
to take. The noble lord
(Lordp ttrbnle. Ho had now pointed
night that that stop
1"8
rsatceitu.tes, and he thought he had
out the state of the existing
they
ought not to be edlewed
shown that it was one in whin
po nt of fact, the Statute Law
to remain. (Hear, hear.)
Commission had not succeeded' in doing the work which it
one. e now came to the next branch
shawl). ayes necessary to have d
t legislation This •
carrel' . was of still
The bill was then read a second time. 11 of the subject,
namely,importance than the state of the statute-book. In
steater
fbsolete statutes, good sense might enable them
PRIVATE BUSINESS. tate midst o
n° without much harm; though it was not ere-
The following bills were severally read a second time,.. struggiettee
people of this country that their laws should
,daable to
and ordered to be committed : Bagnalstown and'•(Hear, hear.)
such a condition.He had always been
Wexford Railway, Barclay, &o. Drainage, Bawtry and .b°
anxious to do what he could to assist in the legislation of
Tingley Road, Crowland .and Eye Road, Dawn t
- "ahnie country-, but he bad constantly been baffled in his at-
bury, Batley, and Heekrnondwike Water, Forest
temPts. Session after seasios, and night after night, he 'saw
of Dean Central Railway ; Hampstead Junction, he same kind of bills introduced. That night he heard that
Railway ; London, Tilbury, and Southend 11"1. t, le Old Fishery Bill, which he bad considered to be extin-
way (Additional Capital, &c.) ; London, Tilbury,
se,
fished last year, was to be introduced again in the present
uid
aud Southend Railway (Extension and Branches) ;
se, ;slot, He wished some of the financial gentlemen w y
Perth, Almond Valley, and Methven Railway ; Perth em ,mine into the expense to which this putcountry.swecs ye%
Burgh aud Harbour ; Poole and Bourne Valley Rail- rtive bills, and doubted not that if such an.i
t to pay an
'e it would turn out that the cost was sufficient
way ; Uttoxeter and Blythe Marsh Road ; and Nyem mat
stuff for the furtherance of the object contemple tod by
and Bronygarth Roads ; C3lnbrook, Datchet, and -Arno .
ra )
• Ne public bill wild be
Slough Road ; Conway and Llandudno Road ; Mid:and him iL °Wm (Hear, ht 4 •

After some further di.scussion, it was arranged that
the documents should be put in, and afterwards trans-
lated, printed, and circulated amongst their lordships
for their consideration. _ .

The documents were accordingly.handed in.
Mr. Hardy, in answer to questions from Lord Broug-
ham, said he had not had au opportunity of making
searches for othei life patents than those now produced.
He only. had an intimation at 10 o'clock last night that
those documents would be required. All the patents re-
corded in the Tower were printed in an appendix which
their lordships then had. It would take his till Mon-
day to search for life patents granted since Edward
the 4th.

The Earl of DERBY said it would expedite the in-
quiry if the Lord Chancellor would move for the pro-
iuction of the precedents he relied on to enable nobly
Lords to examine them.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had nothing to
move for. He relied on the preeedents in the printed
book, which was already accessible to their lordships,
and with the contents of which noble lords appeared to
be conversant.

A further discussion emu- d, when Lord LYND-
HURST said he hardly knew how their lordships could
proceed further that day, and was of opinion it was de-
sirable the committee should adjourn till Monday.
Lord CAMPBELL said he should move that. Lord
Wensleydale be heard, either by himself or by his
counsel.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he had re-
ceived a communication from Lord Wensleydale,
wherein he stated that he had reoeived no intimation
from her Majesty that the subject had been referred to a
committee, and that, therefore, he should decline to
acknowledge the authority of the committee.
Earl GREY complained that nothing definite had
been brought before the notice of the committee, and
called upon the noble lord to put before them a resolu-
tion of a formal character. He urged them not to pro-
ceed in the manner they had begun, which was likely to
bring ridicule on their lordships' house.
Earl DERBY said the question before the committee
was the validity of a patent that bad been granted to a
Commoner. The house now sat in a judicial inquiry to
ascertain the nature of life peerages that had been
granted. He admitted that the Crown had a right to
great the dignity of a life title, but he did not recognise
the right of such persons to sit and vote in their lord-
ships' house, and it was to ascertain that fact that the
committee was called on to investigate the precedents
alluded to.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said a select committee
should have been appointed in the first instance to in-
vestigate the question.
It was ultimately arranged that Lord Lyndhurst,
Lord Brougham, and Lord St. Leonard' should form a
■elect committee to examine, consider, and report on the
question to the Committee of Privileges, and the com-
mittee adjourned to Monday next at 2 o'clock.
The house then resumed.
Lord CAMPBELL moved that Baron Parke beheard
himself or by counsel on Monday next.
The Earl of DERBY called the attention of their
lordships to the fact that Lard Wensleydale's name had
been placed on the roll of their lordships house. He
would not then enter into a discussion on it, but merely
mentioned the fact, as his claim to sit in that house
was in abeyance.
The Lord CHANCELLOR objected to the terms of
Lord Campbell's motion, which mentioned the name of
Baron Parke and not that of Lord Wensleydale,and in
consequence
Lord CAMPBELL withdrew his motion, and asked
for leave to renew it on Thursday next. Ultimately
the noble lord consented that Lord Wensleydale should
be named in his motion.

The motion was then put and carried.
The house adjournedat ten minutes to 4 o'clock.

Their lordships re aseembled at five o'clock.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH gave notice that on
Thursday next ke should present a petition from the
seamen of ♦arious ports, complaining that they were
compelled to go to sea in unseaworthy ships.
He should likewise ask on that day whether the Govern-
ment intended to bring in any measure with respect to
the subject.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said he would
answer tko noble lord's question now. Her Majesty's
Government did not intend to bring in any bill to
amend the law on the subject during the present session.
ROUSE OF COMMONS OFFICES BILL.

Lsrd STANLEY •f A.LDERLEY moved the fast
reading of this bill.
The bill was accordingly read a first time.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YitiTE"IIr')
The STUMM took the chair at a quarter before four
o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS-
The Right Hon. Mr. WALPOLII took the oaths aid
his seat for Cambridge TJaiversityld
his seat for Mr. RIDLIff took the oaths a
New-
castle. NEW WRIT.
I nea writ was issued for Leominster, in the place of
Mr. Ark wright, deceased.
BROADSTAIRS HARBOUR AND PIER BILL.
On the motion that this bill be read a second ti'ute,
Sir E. DERING moved that it be read a socond
.
time that day three months. The inhabitants of St.
Peter's most strongly objected to a certain clause, and
the reason that they had not opposed the bill in the first
instance was that, till Friday last, they were un asl•
quainted with its provisions. If the hon. membor
whose names were at the back of the bill would with •
draw the objectionable clause, he would withdraw his
opposition.
Mr. BROTHERTON said the clause would be with--