The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-19 00:00:00

did not repent and lament," of this he was Sure, that they-
had a right to do so.—(A laugh.) Their conduct to
Captain Graham *as most censurable. From the mo-
ment iii which they had treated that individual as they
had thought proper to treat him—from that moment the
Magistracy of Ireland saw that it was impossihle to act
as the exigencies of difficult cases might require. The
decision, in that instance, he should ever consider to he
a blot on the character of the Government of Ireland. It
had not been, it could not be, obliterated.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the Bill then under the consideration of
the House, he hoped that lit would be triumphantly
carried. He trusted that Ministers would not give
way to clamour,--that they would not allow portions
of the Bill, and important portions, to be cut off.
so as to render the measure useless.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped they would show to the country that they
were decided, and that they would not rest until they restored
to the people of Ireland peace and tranquillity, security for
life, and due protection for property.—(Hear, hear.) The No.
ble Earl bad said on a former Occasion, that both parties in
Ireland were equally involved in these outrages.—(Earl Grey,
across the table—" I said that both parties were equally at-
tacked by the authors of these outrages.") Well, he (Lord
Roden) would assert that no Protestant Dissenter in Ireland
favoured these deplorable Proceedings. He believed that some
of the Roma:i Catholic farmers, and some of the Roman Catho-

lie people, who were favourable to the state of things as they
were, and who were opposed to the repeal of the Union, had
fallen under the rod of persecution. But looking to the whole
system, it appeared to him to be a systematic attack upon
the property of Protestant gentlemen—a guerilla warfare
against the property of the Church—an attempt to overturn the
Protestant religion. Yes, he would say that it was a con.
spiracy—a jesuitical and subtile conspiracy—against the
Protestant religion. Reference had been made to a measure
which he could not look to without considering it
as being the door through which all the present miseries
of Ireland had entered. He alluded to the Catholic Relief
Bill, as it Was called; of 1829. The Noble Earl, in
bringing forward the present measure, had said, that he
was disappointed by the fruits which the Bill of 1829 had pro.
duced. He believed that the Noble Earl was disappointed, as
well as his friend, the Noble Duke (Wellington), who had
made a similar declaration. Such a declaration afforded,
however, but poor consolation to those Who prognosticated the
evils that the measure Would produce. He had conscien-
tiously opposed that measure on political as well as on religious
grounds, because he felt that from it would flow all the evils
now complained of. That being the case, the question was,
whether they were not to unite with the Government, how-
ever different on some points their opinions might be, for the
purpose of removing those et'ils.—(Hear.) He for one would,
whenever it was fairly in his power, support the measures of
Ministers. He should not say one word more as to the powers
given to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. He had the greatest
regard for the Nobleman who held that office, whom he had long
known. He, however, differed from that noble person on po-
litical matters ; and In his Opinion the conduct of that Noble
Lord had been greatly prejudicial to Ireland. He would not
now refer to another measure, the Church Reform Bill, which
had been introduced elsewhere. He should, when it came
into that House, have an opportunity of discussing its provi.
sions. At present he should only say, that he could not con.
template it otherwise than a measure having fbr its object
the spoliation of the Church of Ireland ; and that point once
effected, the same principle would be speedily extended to the
Church of England. The ruin of the Church establishment in
both countries would, he was convinced, be the result of that
measure.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed, that a great
and a just principle was asserted by the triumph of the Ca-
tholic question i and, whatever evils had occurred in Ireland
since that measure had passed, were not attributable to it.
Hopes, it was true, were entertained, on the passing of that
Bill, which unfortunately were disappointed. The great ob-
ject was, however, attained—a mighty and a just cause, a
mighty and a just principle, triumphed.—(Hear, hear.) The
truth was, that die evils which now beset Ireland, were not
caused by the concession of the Catholic question, but by the
refusal of that concession for so many years. He considered
the Noble Marquis who was at present Lord Lieutenant of Ire.
land, eminently fitted, from his perfect impartiality of feeling,
to fill that situation. It was scarcely fair to argue that he was
not a proper person to represent the Sovereign because he had
used the word agitation, or something like it, at a moment
when his feelings were excited, and when, it should be ob-
served, he was not in office. The Government, he con.
tehded, were not to blame, because they had not called for
this measure at an earlier period. Fifteen months ago,
Ireland was in a very agitated state, and no part more so
than Galway.—(Hear.) The common law was put in force,
and tranquillity was restored. Since that, however, it was
found that outrage increased, and it was deemed necessary,
when all other expedients failed, to have recourse to the mea-
sure then under consideration. He supported it, not for the
purpose of giving strength to any faction, but because he con.
ceived that it was necessary to uphold the law of the land. If
he thought the measure were introduced upon any factious
principle he should most determinedly oppose it. _ _

The Earl of LONGFORD, as we understood, asserted that
the Marquis of Anglesea had approved of agitation, and had
expressed his approval when he was in office.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, the question was, did
Ministers mean to do—were they intent on doing—their duty
towards the country in bringing forward this measure? If
they were) then it was useless to go back to former proceedings.
The duty of the House was to meet the state of things in Ire-
land at the present moment.—(Hear, hear) In his opinion,
that state of things rendered the proposed measure imperatively
necessary.—(Hear.) If the recall of the present Lord Lieute-
nant, or any other measure of that kind, could render such a
proceeding as that now contemplated unnecessary, he would
immediately say, " Adopt that course."—(Hear, hear.) But,
as it appeared to him, looking fairly at the question, the pre-
sent measure was absolutely necessary.— (Hear, hear, hear.)
He cared not from what cause the present state of things in
Ireland arose. It was sufficient for him that it existed; and
seeing that Government grounded their call for this measure
on that state of things, he should, without looking to one side
or to the other,—he should, without adverting to what had
passed heretofore, give them his support on this occasion.—
(Hear, hear.) He considered the measure to be essentially
necessary ; and on that ground alone he should support it.--
(Hear, hear.) He was certainly sorry that such a measure had
not been brought forward formerly, but he was extremely glad
that it was now introduced.—(Hear, hear.) He had looked
at the Bill, and he thought that it required some amendments.
It was his intention, in the Committee, to move that courts.
martial should be appointed on the principle recognised in
the Mutiny Bill. There were, also, some parts of the Bill which
did not, in his opinion, give sufficient powers for the purpose
of putting down the particular evils that afflicted Ireland. He
would not, however, on the present occasion discuss those
points. He hoped the Committee on the Bill would sit on the
earliest possible day, and he should then declare his opinion
more in detail. He conceived that the measure would do much
good, and hoped it would be adopted by the House with as little
delay as possible.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl GREY expressed his gratitude to the Noble Duke for
the courteous manner in which he had stated his intention to
suggest certain alterations in the Bill. The suggestion of the
Noble Duke, with respect to the construction of courtsmartial
should be taken into immediate and serious consideration.
He was rejoiced that he had not risen before the Noble Duke,
because he was most anxious to learn his opinion. And here
lie must offer his best thanks to the Noble Duke for the
handsome and kind manner in which he had called the
attention of the House to the peculiar circumstances of the
time, and to the situation In which his Majesty's Ministers were
placed. The present measure arose entirely out of the circum.
stances of the time, and, as the Noble Duke had observed, the
discussion ought to be confined to that point. No good could
result from adverting to matters that had formerly occurred. It
was futile, on such an occasion, to introduce the ques.
tion of Catholic emancipation. What he had formerly
asserted, and what he would still assert, was simply this,—
that the present Bill was a measure of absolute necessity,
not a measure of choice. No bad feeling, no bad passion
had been the cause of its introduction. It was brought
forward to effect a great public object. It was brought forward
for the preservation of the public peace,—for the assertion
of the authority of the law,—for the maintenance of the
power of Government,—and, above all, for the protection
of the great body of the people, whose rights and liberties
were destroyed by the prevalence of riot, outrage, and dis.
order.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the state of affairs in Ire.
land, that, to repress party violence, it was absolutely ne-
cessary that certain portions of the Constitution should for
a time—he hoped for a very short time—be suspended.—
(Hear, hear.) Ministers were anxious to assist the peace-
able part of the community on the one hand, and on the
other to support the just and necessary authority of the
Government.—(Hear, hear.) It was with that view, and
with that view only, that this important proposition was in-
troduced.—(Hear, hear.) Ministers wore actuated in their
whole course by no private motives—by no private feeling.—
(Hear, hear.) Their great object was the public good. And
when imputations, charging them with unworthy motives—
attributing to them different feelings from those which he had
described—were indulged in, he should ever repel such attacks
with that indignation which their injustice demanded.—(Hear.)
He had only again to express his satisfaction at the tone and
manner in which the Noble Duke had adverted to the measure
before the House, and the feeling he had shown to look at it
only in that way which the public good required, and to thank
him fbr the kindness with which he handed to him the amend-
ments he intended to propose. The Noble Duke, in endeavour-
ing to make the Bill more effectual for its purpose, took the
best course to limit its duration.

The motion that the Bill be read a second time was then put
and carried nem. con.

The Duke of CUMBERLAND wished to know on what day
the Bill was to be committed ?

Earl GREY replied " To-morrow" (this day).
Lord ELLENBOROUGH asked when would the Noble
Earl be ready to bring forward the Venue Bill ?
Earl GREY replied, that he hoped he should be able to bring
it forward on Thursday next.