The Sun.
London, England, 1805-05-14 00:00:00

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1 u E
_S DA r, MA'Y 14, 1805.

rPRTNZ SEXPrENCE6
1

IMPERIAL PAR LJAMEIVT.

, •
a high respeCt (Dr. Paley), had niiintaiWnt that
the Government had a right to- da every thing that,
was Tor the good of the people; but this respectable
authority allowed, at the same time, that whenever
that .exercise, of power was applied th purposes in.
consistent with the public good, it became abuse no
longer tp be tulerated, for then the right, if it was a
right; was to be exercised only for the public good.
Unequal' remit-lions were numerous, but still it was
only a difference of Statement ; the thing was in sub.
stance the same. He preferred the exception to the
rule: they who were for (he rule, allowing the force of
the.exception. . Some were of opiOion that liberties
were 'to, be granted. not as matter of:favour and
of potty, bur of right.. He-contended they were
matter cf. right., The difference,:-however, was of
no effeCi in praftical reasoning. . He contended that
the liberties should,,be enjoyed as ,the general tight
of the people, and when there was re necesit:;, to
withdraw them ;.those (iiho.were of ,a difrerent opi.
nion maintained the right of restrietion, but, al.
lowed it was not to be,eierciked except in 'eases
of nedeistry, and that it was to cease whers-.0,e
nre.4:ii;:y sous done away. - both
sides ltd to the same conclusion, that there should .•
bean equality of laws, except Where that, equality
was likely to be attended with mischief. He 'wished
to enforce thiS principle particularly,. beesiuse this
question was of so witch importance, because it
was, ?n its nature, not. a 4uestion of the day, but
Must be, if it did not succeed now, a question of
future deliberation, to be again and again consider.
ed, till the satisfaelion of the claims should have
'finally set it to rest. He' wished that' those ivho
were mute or less in favour of the prayer of the •Pe,
iition should understand, these points, and, that..
they should not conceive there were differences 'in
feel, where, there were only differences in words,
and where the theory led to the same, consequences.
This he addressed to those who thought that the

. .
Legislature of those times entetirrued the former re.
stridions and provided additional ones. At the
.
Revolution the sirne principlte were maintained
froni political motives,' -arid' tile restrittive sy tern
was -adhered to, not from a-distrust of Catholics,
hut' as a security against Jat.iobiies'. When James
was driven out in consequenet of enormous tyranny,
coupled with taligioua bigotry; it was difficult to un,
ravel and separate - the ticift wl.ich tyranny and
religion'had in his odiotia' Ads, and therefore both
were condemned togeth'er.. It was anpossible the
Ration Catholics anoliat time could be supposed not
to be attacheti to a Prince who was diivete from his
throne partly on account of hii adherence to their
religion. In Ireland there was reason CO suppose
this attachment still strooger, as a war had taken
place in consequence. Diffetent restrictions It al fol.
lowed conquest, but not. us against adorers of the
Saints and the Virgin Mary. William 111. who
was a great man,. he believed one rif the greatest
this country had ever seen, but ani man who wish.
eeltte exalt. hien as ; persecutor, of idolatry and the
e.Neeisi, of Saints, mistook his chareder most lee
eritiehlifF, consented to- thu establisimierie of ree
etridions with tellielance, anti only on the ground
that it would be, dangerous to leave .power in the
hands of those he had conquered. Vie hether- there
Would have been noire witdom in
_adhering to his
own sentiments, it was not neceseary now to argue; •
but the fart was. unquestionable, that the restraints
wore itposeil, not from the differeoce of religion, •
but from politica; eeteesiry, that power should not
be suffered to remain-in the hands of those whose
use of it may he dreaded. No' person was so min.
ditainted With the history as to be ignerapt that this
was the true ,statenient of the case. , The times tile,
to the end -rei Anne, were chiefly
times of war, and the -excitement of Catiltain was
one of the means on which the enertiy relied for.
bringing about a ciril war for the advancement of
their purposes. When the exoeulsiOn of James4as
recent, and Ireland' Wag -bait recently c eee lereel in
stippterting his curse, it was iaipossibie ie.ese Who
supported his family should not still lotikter assiOt.
ante from. the Catholies'of trelanda It was therefore
necessary to dim= those Catholics, note literally
alone, but rolitically also. iNlestay: were then of opi-
nion, that it would he the happiest thing. to` eon.
vent those Catholics to Protestantism ; anti many
thought now that if those who were then zeol'ous
had gone-wisely about it, they seollid'llive sLlCCeeth
ed. But in the way they did go about it it Was.ab.
whitely impradicable. The laws • that were then
'passed, however, Were onlyenorninally againsi'Ca.
tholics, being really against 'Jacobites, and affedino
Catholics as' thee, were supposed•to be infeEled with
Jacobitieni. During the two- first reigns of' the
House of Brunswick the same danger existed as the
Cates* for prolonging end ertforciiio' reetridion.—
The condet Of the Cs;holics uotier these circum.
'stances was the best ground' to entitle them to favour
-and indulgence now, if under such restridions, and
:with soemuch solieitition and temptation, their lay..
tilty and atteehment. had icmained unshaken. hives
impossible to grant the relief in foriner times, but
former. merits seemed to strengthen. the chaini at
the present moment.- He -cattle now. to the present
Reign. - At the period of:Hie present Majesty's
succession, or before that, all danger from the Stu.
arts had become extinet they had become insignifi.
cant and contemptible in the latter part of 'the
Reign of George the , Second ; bat at the
mencenaent of the Reign cf His present' Majesty it
was impossible to apprehend any thing *from- them..
Then began the n propriety of retake the resttic.`
lions, audio point of fad, Oft course sees ukere.—
being the Lord Lieutenantcy of elle Duke of Bed-
ford, 'whei erosided at the time of the succee=
sion of .His Majesty,- oyotptorns of reiaxation be.
gun to sperar. CiecuenetanceS-seyurred, a few teats
after, which proved most clearly,-erleat
,the cause
of the -terror anti - the restrictions was 'alike at'
Intend. In the American War, and the French War,
which accrued•upon in, so far was the Government
from having any suspicion of them, that sve.put antis
in their hands fur the defence of the Country, cor3.
Wry:4o the law which imposed a titstind restraint
on thit point,'as if they were not fit to be misted with,
arms. At that time there was considerable differ.
ence of opinion here on this point, Tor thOugh there
was not much-debatelin the House, Gentlemen who
reeolleded the time would remember, that the si.
tuition of the Catholics was much considered. The
Letters of-Mr. Burke, many of which were publish.
shewedo that in the year 17761hia subject was
much -mentioned in conversation here, It Itcamu
inconsequence a topic of much conversation, though
at a time when patty politics ran extremely high, •
and every class-of men were warm about the Arne.
rican Ware there was little leisure to think of other.
subjeas but the opinionithen among all thinking
imen was, • that the liberties of the Catholics of Ire..
landeshould be 'restored. He believed the meastire
Was brought- forward here- in- favour of the Ca.
tholics at chat time, by men who would be ever re;
membered with honour, Sir George Saville and Me.
Dunning. These measures were considered not so
much as a relief here, because the restrictions here
had always been much less severe,' and so much
relaxed in the execution,' that they were compara.
lively much loss a-grievance. It was regardediae of
much greater importance, because a paved the way
for the introdudion eof a milder system in Ireland. -
He 'war one of those who, from his earliest' age,• had
thoueiht that the principle of taint pgpalisuprema lrx
could never extend to authorize the preven t.0..0.f
'any
man from the exercise of his religion. The most
important feature, however, in the meiteure adopted
here was, the consideration that it may lead to re.
taxation in Ireland, as in isel it did. And it was
extraordinary. that .what seemed so much 10 stagger
Gentlemen now)WAs nut at all thought 0.1 titer,. C

Pipe and the Pretender Were never once looked opon
as cahses of apprelrensinn. The situatioo of the
Pretender Was then looked upon by some ea entitled
to compaaaion,' by other, as entitled to rester.}
Mingled with compassion. S9me of the worst disc -
pooltions were inclined to taunt him, bet there was
in nooneanyisensatiOn like fear._ But the situation
'of the'Catholics of Ireland was peculiar. The
Irish Gentlemen would excuse him if he said that
their haughty assumptions had placed their Catholic
FellOwasui.jells so much beneath them,. that,they
could not easily be restored to their teats.. Mi.
Burke; in his lettCr to Sir flercules Lanarit.he, can.
sidered how far, after thiaprivation and degradation,
the Catholics' of Ireland were qoalified for
joyment of civil right, and civil power, tor how,
ever difficult it was to diatinitaiish civil rights and
politicalosower in theory, it was still more ihtfiaoit
ip praelice By the restridiorta a chi' oe oaot
hraught about in the whole property of Ireland wbich
produced a state of thinge highly to he iamenttal.-
- He did not mean to, institute a comports ~1) ht.. Aeen
the'state in which the Irish Catholics were placaii
Fiaa, these resaelarotaa tool,the aiatartion of Oa Vf, 111 oral(
West Indies. These were shades of difrartnee bee
tween all situations; but so material an eiroat
been produced by the placing of the whole property
of the Country in the hands of the Protestants, that
it was matter of much doubt, whether political
power should be placed, whatever right there might
be to it, in hands width held no property, It was
theoretically :true, that there Should be no dlffere.nee
between thole who had property and those who
had nor, but that' which-property itself niode. But
the situation of the Irish Catholics.„ if they should
be enttuated With power, while they possessed no
propeity, would be 'altogether anomalous. The
Legislature, therefore,
,began wisely with enabliug:
them first to acquire property, Znot the,comeipences
cif their first rifts conneatd with the right of free
trade', recognized in 1780, not only increased
highly the gooeadt proportion of the wealth of
'lreland to the "Cvialth of the Empire, but in.
Creased the wealth of the Empire still farther
beyond all proportion. Nor was itacummercial
wealth alone that the Catholics acquired, but a large..
.proportion of landed property also. These amp).
sititips had the best effeet in softening the asperi.
ties ot the line of deniarcatioo between time two
seas. The Catholics had, lay favour of the relaxa.
titans, *gained possession of a great ;pat that
property taken from their ancestors by. Cromwell,
and since held under his MI of Settlement for more
than a century and a half. He stated this in' on.
savor to in argument whist' supposed the Catholics
to refer to times heYond Cron-I%yd', for the purpose
of recovering
would be most wild and -irrational, and not
rec Overing &apart), thee enjoyed. Such a dde..
sig
to .b? juw:ißed by any thing recorded in flee fits.
tory of.former times. If it were now attempted
to restore the property of the Catholic aoliaaars,—
it would be fotind that they were now. in a great
meaiurs the rich proprietors; anti it would be a.
question, not only how many of themselves were
to he depriVede but also to' whalextent, and at all
events the number that
,could. Ee relieved by dila
must be very few int Led. But he had particular'
difficulty 'conceive, why the restritlions now corn.
•plained of, should be continued, when the others
had been relaxed. The restrialions that now re.
mafired may generally be reduced .to two heads
iitst, the incapacity from 'soloing certain Civil and
military einphaytnents ; and, next, the tight of
'sitting in either HoUse of Parliament. To the
Gentlemen who had attended to the chapter of
incapacities, And he was sorry to say, it was a large
one in the history of Great Btitain, he believed
•he would be warranted in declaring an opinion,
that it 'was' pettedly tireless for the Objett fur
which it had been intended—oodious to those who
iutfered—and least honourable to the Empire of all
other measures. First, with reaped to the int:spat.
titian from office, there.were two mores of etitatiog
it : first, bylestria!ling the Prerogative from the li.
belly of appointing Catholics ; secondly, by prevent.
ing Catholics from accepting such apisointment. On
what principle this restri4ton could rest now,he
could net possibly conceive. The Test AU for
the exclusion of Catholics had been enatted la .the
Reign of Chalice :11,
.when great danger will a?.
preheated from jaeobites. And here a whimsical
observation occurred to him, as to the different ways
in which our Anceitors and we argued with respect
to this point. It was Once a favourite argumentottat
this restraint on the prerogative made the Gs)vern,
mint more 'agreeable to analogy, and the Constitu.
tioo more of a piece, when the King was obliged to
'be Protestant and.the Ministry also. What beauty
titktwgiftloarostet:i:vti_ehspienpr yolß:tatsihitihitete)olriosnneal;ny;apern:isocsyowna4:shae!)i..ni::.lwt:toci:iatiail,tnititsic_.earoediulanyckrtit.gl,ihrAmtrlelceotelorciltioi,::annonsidrtits:tilhg4l.iiitte:reLsildilt.
very differently' 'On this
that Cooties 11. employed Catholics, nor because
he was a Protestant, bat because lie 'doubted whe-
ther he was a Protestant ur . not. When it was
conceived that there was a leaning towards any
particular, Sea, as Chalesn. was au,peded to have
to the Catholics, it was wise and provident to prevant
the employment of that "tame- places where they
'Would belikely to second any attempt cm the others.
Ictstwa
ra.s; nhort
imerelybouid b
be c6eret
pa
iulseed King
of ,tl es‘evraysicatt:r.
ofo
the Catholics. There were great men ar that time,
and among them Mr. Locke, who thought the Test
a professed Catholic. If
rtnilelmecr:es:aacran?:dt; t
Cori witc.sw 4i:their!:
wrassr I ivaegarye .
litOtlfe,tha itt
was its vigilance on this point. To enable'
James to appoint Catholics,
,would be to afo
fazd the meant of employing them against time

. . . .
HOUSE OF COMMONS. •
Mr, Bo
MONDAY', MAY T 3.. •:-. -...
R vox presented a Petition from the County of OK-
fati; ~,:ainst the CAtli-olic C'lalms.
A INles,,ge tram the Lords notified their Lordships' assent
1114 LOrCi it AkROWRY should Attend to be examined by a.
Corth.unee on the Tenth Report of the Commissioners of
Naval Lig :iry. Thel Lordships desired a conference on the
kiiiedot the request with respect to Lord 1%1 E L V 3 LLE.
Lord
in s
thapp e t,,ii
iiitt rence, which was immediately agre
At to, the
lt es ed to manage stated their Lordships' privt-
g, aikt insistod p4ticiiii:riy on the impropriety of re-
suirroK eit•crimination, but concidtled with consenting that
lota hhz.vit.t E may also atteild to citapincti.
Thep - CA'rIIOLIC PETITION.
etition lien% read, un tilt M itirin Of Mr.
r°x• that Gentleman prefaced his Motion en the
.3t111"0: with a nvi,t.cnmprehensive and enlightened
areen sof above three hours, the substance of which
vi.in as as follOws : He felt .contlierable anxiety in
Ng t,, address the House on a subi,a•which ex.
F;"tied in immediate itnicirtance, and in probable
„;,-"„sequencesi sOine of ahem nearer, others more re-
--, 1/4e, ant. 00,dr subject on which he ltakevee: he,,:.
"re tlaiteed a hearing. But if tin thislbeSdot 4; relg-
t.'diattilinary agiratron, or, the other hand, he telt
111. a mat agreeable duty. It was a recreation to
'Ht after the liaraSsing and painful task of accu.
sap'
after lahourine, -tO prpmute inquiries into
!nranteFs that were riot heinourabte tvi the CLuotTY,
,/,Inote-enan they write to the individual who was
tir-t!'"l47lY the 0 jettt of them; it was a relief, and •
", grateful restotalion to him, that he had 'now to
)4'4 the calse ..1 a great number of the Subieds of
this realm-, and to suPt;ori for. them claims '
v'lcii if granted,' I,voulo add strength to the
°tulitY at tare, wii.hout taking from the power
over the
liki authority ,t hake, 'and
.oiliest sati3faCtion
Wlit'Act Empire, by removing the dise
ten excited by the sufPringw di the eco,-
I,?it rs' at tile same time. that the relief afforded
t; tart tvoaid I'e attended with ro buriben or in.
f•,,tltenienCe" in any other querter wh,stsoever• He
ell relieved in .attemptin'g to draw the attention
:_to the House, and he was sure is would
,be.drawns
a istthjeti k% !licit, however erhbarrasaltig it may,
,1)t. to
ts4tently with te, . b°111e) however dubious it may be to ()tilers,
their general views
lime 4,1v.0f 'policy and
"
:f all, scribe
of the Empire, must, in the opinions
allowed to be of a magnitude and itn.
114nce worthy of the highest consideration.—
Lotter these considerations he could not help feeling ',
taaci
lend he did feel it a high honour to be solicited
,iii„ 'rill; the 6Ubieft forward. The Petition was
but it was true, by not a great.numher of persona 3
ettu'Llt eumprehenoed the interests of I-fifth, be believ.
tan,' tyl:ty 'ay /*Lath, of His Majesty's European
wuJe4s. Fur he • • d the milliOne
eon 3 or 4
7:ll.le4th'ii" Irel.ind contained, formed a portion
'ot,.4l.l,s,4_lEtiesty's Subjeas nearer to one-fourth than
tui,.`4ll of the population of, Hie —Majesty's .
hi
...1)."411 dominions, He therefore felt a particu.
L- in in preSsing the claims of so respettable a
--y, t . , .
IN ~ , l'a liostile to the power of others, much ,
es comit,.'.'e safer
y and liberties of the Country, but
the e—„"ginilig relief and redress of grievance with
lir),
oflietrtnation of the Present polier and autho-
-114,en ththe to whom power and authority were' at
Ittlit : rt,"fi4edr and wi:h time best prctspeas and
of the
means' for the permanent establishment
fiat ht should
bath indepeudetice of 'all. If, there.
~0.1 nee should sneered in persuading the House to
0 the r
u jUllice iclaim, it was an inctease of satisfac•
161 to . .
time ti hi that ' Gentlemen' would at the same 1
end
ifthi3 a mos unessential service to themselves, 1
At lar,r.grilatl the general weal of
.the Empirc,4
sa ty.then ." M. 7 be diffiCtlit to chuse in wliat. part of '
oftplo. sive a subjedt to begin. To him a l'hiTi and
,
et'th mute of preference arose, from the number
embracer! he win)
st thierebts the metier of the Petition
of
the
nonit,arted
*4l ile'B fin he did !not Suppose any controversy
with respeft to the precise amount
~ of upiniv numb
,Il he did not 'k:low that difference
~,•11,,,, it
on, existed nn
.the salijea, he would look ahOuld
e'.m4tter nf astonishment that any difference .
.','titinlher
_I: I" as to the propriety ' of placing such a
ed 'Kin"
,une•fotit at 0 the population of the' Unit.
the lawFa_krin en an equal fOoting, with respeCt to
ti o,,,:fac: liherties Of the country,'Nvitb the rest
ilad for
..
length
tiihjlas, With respell 10 whom they
li4rdshi :1_ 'eugth ot time antlered-severe coMpitrative
fir be Il anti diabiliti ,
Y exam , es. He' did .stippose there
privation, 1 pies in history of similar severity of
that the ~t,"'. this otulti be stated Only to spew
51,1 sithert;.lciPle Of equatity of rights Was, like
tiat of ieP,lr.,,ei,PleaS subjett to variation. The
Arent huth„..'l.llun Was also insisted upon by some -
et it ii,„„u_littell when eircutnstanees should ren.
Oily 6e ,Rtes,
• but whatever differertces. there
1444 4 th,ry Cietw• : • 1 •
:,.. IN at,,,,._ . easi.rtke t wo . princip ea, . tn.
o"nie eaue:i'i
rights the effet'l teas the rimer What
, case ,ft.,_'grits never to be taken away exept,
1414 fi. 4tretne neer ' ' never
.
Vilt. 4.."
that ... ssit), and to be wath-
i_ Vile, ow. --cessity ceased, others called pri.
es% %lit, 4Ya to be conceded by Government, un-
-Ipii„„e Pteiullar ' circumstance a called for the
-Crw - of them a 1
.4 ' these eir 3 iit to be immediately restored
it't ditfetc„e, cun"tances should ho longer exist.
441:4%vat
,w - was rather it) words than In things.
IQe a'a °lhrne Qt`i, 7,3
.01 considering rights, in one in.
tiotihe rights'iant,s of the Subjetts, in the other
the c, the °f
It: Abe Government. He was
illit
the fatillioll that prevailed in
'1 04 century, ace 1.
ic4:::11:te,
?trp eitattrtwleia :ntdtethittica fat
prevailed
hi. to
, obligations iatnhse oroi g :lit' es
. •
tight3..4"4l were en . * to composed the society
tut47,..vtisvest:rseue:_tlit tn:xiencli uattif .I:33l;u3s;r:itsitiel:9ruira.l
iiiu i 4'4414 10 'Nil instances to exceptions
t _a_ 1. closets expressed Et
1 IY. 11c1 • Y tif righ4 . NI
a dik. 4 if, the; . any men rof great au.
() 'eh
ntirnents of
'l6
*4O Wuilltilt,ruelvWlll ft st'e. et 10 this. princip
1e....
1""le, taut for %ilium lac !lad

Catholic rights should not be enlarged beyond what
their principles would warrant, to reconcile their
tenets with his, who would not allow any part of
their equal rights, privileges, and immunities, 1.0
be withdrawn except in case of absolute necessity.
The only difference between him and those persons
.could be, that they would .consider the degree of
safety and expediency to grant, while. ha considered
the necessity of with.bolding, the absolute existence
of Which :could with him be the only justifica,'
don. They may consider. a slight expediency,.
with a view to..forego objeds sufficient to 'nu.
thor:ze them .to deny what was asked of them,

and. what was their's. to grant. • Be would think
the 'safety of the Country ought. to be materially con.
cerned before any portion of the public rights could
be withdrawn, and; that the continuance of that
danger could atone jussify the, withholding of these
rights. He would hope, however; tha.► ita.this,case
such slight distindions would not be insisted upon.
.The Catholics in either sense had. originally an un.
doubted right. ' The Governosent,had trecpiently in.
vatted that right by curtailment .and, restridion;
What the general justice and expediency of these re.
stridions %vas, it was not necessary now to inquire;
but it was necessary to attend particularly -to the
times in' history when these restriCtions had taken
place. He did suppose that no man's mind .could be
so made as to hold that festridion.could be justified
On prescription. Prescription with resped to pro.
perty 'was often the best
.title ;' but that it should
hold td:" ustify the continuance of restriction an the
rights and liberties- of the Subject was a perfed
solecism in politics. To defend the restraint by
pressrition when. the' cause was..dxte away ; to
maintain that iTslial-Wai imposed only on acc-.7mrt"
of particular circomstances.. had .aequired• a pre.
scriptive- right to eternal and oppressive duration,
was in his opinion adverse to every principle of
justice, of policy, and of
.reason. If .a restriction
had been ..laid on from the necessity of peculiar CiT.'
cumstancts; when those circumstances ceased the re.
stridion ceated at the same. time to be politic and •
just; How far people much cuttailed of their.
rights could he with ,security restored to what they
had he. deprived of, was, he_ allowed, a proper
question. He did•not think any mischief could hap.
penin this case, 'though it was certainly the aced of
lung restridion, to create such feelings as to render it
difficult to restore the persons restricted to their pro.
per situation. . All restridions rested on political
grounds. In the times -when these particular re.
atridions were thought necessary, there were per.

soh, who mixed principles of liberty with the' re.
atrAintsthty thought necessary.. In the early 11111C8

of restriftion, the times of tliz,rbedi and James
1. the restriction was tlistina from any sinri.

merits of religious bigotry ; Elizabeth had, in many
Instances, a faith repugnant to Catholics, in others
not so much so. That Princess had condufted
herself in very' difficUlt tiniest .with a . wisdom,
prudence; fortitude, and perseverance, which en.
Aided hfr to the high esteem of The woad,- and
'constituted her one of the greatest charaatrs
that adorned our history. She was fur the greater
part of her reign at war with Catholics, particular.
ly with the King of • Spain and the league of
France.' 'ln these political cireum(tances it -was
natural to fear that the Roman Catholic. SUbjeds of
this Realm miesht- privately form connexions with
Powers hostile to this Realm, and a system of eau.
tiort was of course 'resorted to. In the following
Reign distrust increased, and penal laWs were en.
saed ; but with respedi to restriElions and disabi.
litics,the RomanCatholies‘were favoured till a later
period. Suspicion arose afterwards under the Stu.
arts, which strengthened former jealousy. It was -
matter of controversy with some whether Charles I.
was not at bottom a Catholic. With respel., to
Charles aloe was a strong belief that he was
of that religion : that James it. was there could
he no doubt. This was the occasion' why the