The Sun.
London, England, 1834-01-16 00:00:00

CORPORATION P.EFOR M.

(Prom the Bath and Cheltenham Gazette of Tuesday. )
Yesterday (Monday) a public meeting was held at the
Tennis Court, Morford.street, in this city, for the purpose of
Petitioning the House of Commons for the adoption of some
efficient measure of Corporation Reform. M. ROEBUCK at-
tended toe meeting.
W. HUNT, Esq., was called to the chair. After returning
thanks for the honour the meeting had conferred upon him by
PlM:a:King him as their Chairman, he proceeded to observe that
When the Legislature was about to enact laws on any particular
subject, it ought to be made acquainted with the views and sen-
timents of the people upon that subject. Those persons who
were in situations of public trust ought to be open to public
scrutiny and to public approval. The requisition to the Mayor,
Praying the use of the Guildhall for the purposes of the present
meeting, had been unavailing,—the Mayor had denied the
request. But, in his (Mr. H.'s) opinion, his worship could
have had no substantial reason:for his refusal. If the Corpora-
tion Would not go with us, we must go without them. He
hoped their proceedings weuld be marked with moderation,
that the enemies of Corporation Reform might have no cause
to complain of the conduct of the friends of, the cause. To
the corporation
were intrusted not only the prosperity and
happiness of every citizen ; but they had our commercial in-
terests to
to improve. promote, and our local and artificial advantages Every one must see the importance of a
body of mennwpossessing the influence and patronage of the
corporation of Bath being open to some kind of public ordeal
and public scrutiny. Their revenue now amounts to 12,0001.
a year; and in a short time it will have doubled that amount.
Such an income as this, if not correctly applied, might even
endanger the proper use of the elective franchise of the inha-
bitants of this city la
el
• 'sons possessing the disposal of such
a revenue ought to come to a stated and periodical audit of
their accounts before their fellow citizens. The Chairman
concluded by iterating his hope that those present would con-
duct themselves with temperance and moderation,—qualities
necessary to the acquirement of proper and correct sentiments.
—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. THOMAS FALCONER now rose to move that a petition to
Parliament be adopted by the meeting ; and blamed the cor.
poration for their refusal of the use of the Guildhall. He then
spoke of the changes which had taken place in opinion upon
the question of Corporation Reform. When Mr. Hobhouse was
a candidate to represent this city, not a word did he utter upon
the subject. A day or two ago he expressed himself favour.
able to it. This was satisfactory to those whom he designated
as Mountaineers, meaning by that term to imply that we ad-
vocated certain odious and hateful principles,—that we were
desirous of producing disorder and a state of wretchedness. So
far from having such intentions, we are desirous of cherishing
among the people an affection for public institutions, founded
upon a confidence of their excellence, their utility, and their
capability of answering the ends for which they exist. Their
present defects create dissatisfaction and disgust. For
bad feelings we would substitute others. In order to do
this, would that corporations should be composed of per.
sons elected by the people.—(Cheers.) Those having a
voice in the election of the members of the corporation would
feel their connection with that body ; that it was composed of
Persons on whom reliance could be placed, and whose conduct
would be approved of. On the other hand, the persons elected
would feel that the tenure of their places depended upon the
Performance of their duty, and would at all times be anxious
Correctly, firmly, .and honestly to conduct themselves. No such
disgraceftil scenes would then occur, as those that took place at
Bristol, which was not singular in its circumstances. During
the riots here respecting Catholic emancipation, in the year
1780, the magistrates of Bath withdrew from the exercise of their
powers. On one day of disturbance they suspended their public
ftinctions, and a private individual discharged the duties of
their office. Would this have occurred if the magistrates
were elected by the people ?—(No, no.) We have no desire
to create ill will in the community. A body receiving public
support would neither be destroyed nor brought into con-
tempt ; on the contrary, for every purpose it would be rendered
efficient. When magisterial acts are performed in secret,
they become the objects of suspicion. If they were open,
the electors of the magistrates would feel it their duty to be-
come acquainted with the business of the magistrate, and the
magistrate would be desirous they should become instructed in
that duty in order that his conduct might be correctly judged
of. The one would be anxious to become, and the other to
make, good citizens. When magisterial proceedings are secret,
there can be no controul over them, and no responsibility.
Public opinion becomes inoperative upon acts which are bad,
and silent upon those which are good. It can neither censure
nor applaud. Two great motives of good conduct are thus
destroyed.—(Cheers.) The one which intimidates men from
doing what is wrong, and another which excites them to do
what is praiseworthy. We desire a different system, under
which everyman shall have an interest in upholding the autho-
rity of the magistrate and yielding it support. The respect
for the magistrate would then be extended to the law, and the
best of feelings would be cherished and strengthened. Mr.
Falconer then read the Petition, (for which see Advt.)
Mr. CRISP (who spoke under the influence of severe indispo.
sition), In rising to second the adoption of the petition, said :he
hoped that full and efficient power would be given to the peo.
pie over corporations ; for to the want of that power were
mainly to be attributed the evils that had resulted from th e
corporation system. He should be unwilling to sit in a corpo-
ration on account of the irresponsibility of the office. The
Corporation had the control of all the chartered charities, and
their funds had been stated to be 12,000/. a-year, but he
tfirrned that they amounted to double that sum. Having al-
luded to the market dues, and several other matters which lie
(Mr. Crisp) said he considered examples of maladministration
on the part of the Corporation, he concluded amid the cheers of
the assemblage.
The petition having been put from the Chair, it was carried
unanimously.
to J. LLEN, Esq. then moved, that the Petition be intrusted
the Members for the City, for presentation to the Commons.
Mr. EDPIARDS observed, that he never experienced more
Pleasure in seconding a resolution than he did on the present
to
eeftinn. It was a very unusual occurrence for Constituents
be enabled to intrust their petitions to such a Representa-
tive as
truckle to an
Mr. Reebuck,—a man who, he was convinced, would not
Y person, nor entertain any sentiment in opposi_
(Lon to the general good of the community.—(Cheers.) He
iTsrw.erclwards) considered the integrity of the Hon. Member to
h. that
The a,nn. Power on earth could prevail against it.
-auitition was then unanimously adopted.
Mr. ROEBUCK now presented himself to the meeting, and
was received with
their important inter lou d s
t
c.heers. He said he was entrusted with
e
in value and importance :hbut none of those interests equalled
could get the Bill for c
or e administration of justice. If they
mons, and through that ari riati" Reform through the Com-
more difficult place the Lords,
they would have achieved the_ grweatest Possible triumph. The
measure of corporation ref()
zin,oZ:uld constitute the first great
trial, after the Reform
we
must isnetentions of the Legislature;
and, if we fail in this,
liament. But if our wants are pie: to re-reform the Par_
upon the Legislature, neither /..e..d niY and strongly urged
• a nor
fuse the application.—(Cheers.) corporatio"::::.udraer,ettyo
hrei
s_
tinned by the King's Ministers, and, in aerane :eftootnnurnisrnsaunned,
Majesty himself ; and is it for the lords °—
and say, we don't approve of it.—(cho7r..)
bodies of people are accumulated together ,near
la
they large
cessity, a great number of interests in common withhave,Of Ile-
These interests they depute to a smaller body „wine;
ea? other.
government, who are expected to takecare of the peowle",.
terests, not their own. In large towns, similar beau" -
formed, called corporations ; who, in like manner ar re
dePuted
to take care of the interests of the, inhabitants of the city
in which they are constituted ?—(Cheers.) Now, in a large
city like this, there must, of necessity, arise a great number
of disputes between man and man. The greater proportion
of such disputes are decided in the Town Hall. I dc not
mean, the most important, but the greatest number ; for
I know that a cause of importance can be taken by a man
of wealth to the Assizes, and tried there. I do not con-
sider the relative importance of causes to be decided by their
importance, but by their numbers. A poor man may be in-
terested in a cause to the amount of 51„ and it may be a greater
object to him than a cause in which a rich man is interested to
the amount of 5001.—(Cheers.) NoW, at the trials at your
Hall on Wednesdays, are the public admitted ? No. The
Judges and high Law Officers of the country find that they
cannot satisfactorily administer justice unless the public are
admitted ;—the same practice should obtain here. Why is
not the door of the justice-shop of Bath—(Laughter)—thrown,
open to the newspaper reporter and the public ? Within a year
I expect you will see an alteration in this. Justice is not justice
ressYou, it is thought to be so. Therefore, if persons should
k w
tell them
by you have petitioned for Corporation Reform,
, it
to love you love justice, is because • tice and wish the people
the conporation.. the law
11 i7e Markets are let out, and pay a tax to
immediately add the a commodity that you sell is taxed, you
modity. Is it for your
to the original price of that com-
poration, that every)- thing
benefit, or for the benefit of the cor;
expend this money for ingis
benefit ? Or is it expended for
taxed? Does the corporatio
Sumptuous dinners, ea
your'Pet° rooms, and splendid baths—to

none of which you may have admission ? The corporation
ought to provide a convenient and cheap bathing-place in
this city for the poor and the sick. In France, you can have
a bath for two francs : in Bath not for less than 2s. 6d.

Capt. LEIGH LYE—For Is. fid.
Mr. ROEBUCK continued—The Hon. Gentleman says, for
Is. 6d. But this is a public bath ; and in France you can get
one for less, if it be a public instead of a private bath : so
still the comparison holds good. Cleanliness is a virtue ; and
it is a great benefit to the poor man to be able to bathe when
he deems it necessary and convenient. The Rates, likewise,
for Watching, Paving, &c., ought not to be under the control
of the Corporation; who appear to make the offices of that
body almost hereditary. When the Corporation of this city
had the privilege of returning the Members to Parliament,
they were enabled to get into good places; and, in return, a
great many nice things used to come to the dinner, besides
other services rendered. But no bucks come now—(" Except
Roebuck," from the crowd)—Well, Gentlemen, continued
Mr. Roebuck, one difference is, that they have not yet cut me
up.—(Laughter.) Corporation Reform ought to include every
thing, from the administration of justice to the poor
laws. The large tax-paying body, who are the life-
blood of the community, certainly ought to have a
control over the funds they themselves raise.—(Loud
cheers.) It has been said that I never appear
among you without mentioning Corporation Reform. Very
true; and if I were to come among you for 364 days out of
the whole year, if Corporation Reform were not granted, I
should not fail to remind you of it at every visit. There is
yet one more subject on which I wish to say a few words ;
and that is, the subject of national education of the children
of the poor. Instead of the one small school—small in com-
parison to the population of the city—l hope to see this city
divided into districts, and the control of the schools vested
in the hands of the persons who pay for their support : and
then I hope to see the children of the poor growing up use-
ful and intelligent members of society. I think it my duty
to appear among you as often as my Parliamentary duties
will allow—(Cheers)—and here you will never fail of. seeing
me.—(Cheers.) I consider, as your representative, a great
and important trust is confided to me; and I hope you will
not believe—as has been insinuated—that I have vain and
selfish interests to serve, in occupying my present position.
I now bid you farewell ; and if you should hear of anything
to my injury or discredit, I hope you will give me the benefit
of a fair and honest interpretation.—(Loud cheers.)
Captain LEIGH LYE, a member of the Corporation of Bath,
now presented himself to the notice of the meeting; but it was
some time before he could obtain a hearing. When silence
was obtained, he said that he should not have attended the
meeting if lie had not understood it was Mr. Roebuck's inten.
tion to allude to a subject connected with the Bath and West
of England Society. He hoped, from the fact of Mr. Roe-
buck's not having alluded to it in his speech, that he was satis-
fied with the explanation he (Captain Lye) had privately offered
him on the subject of the alleged misrepresentation of Mr. Roe.
buck's answer to Captain Lye with reference to the subscrip-
tion to the Bath and West of England • Agricultural Asso-
ciation.—(" No," from Mr. Roebuck.) Captain Lye conti-
nued—Three years ago, when an attempt was made to re-
move the meetings of the Bath and West of England So-
ciety to Bristol on account of the inadequate support it
received in Bath, the corporation resolved to sub-
scribe twenty guineas annually to the Society ; and the
two City Members likewise put down their names for 5/. each
When the time for the last annual meeting was near at hand,
by the direction of the Committee, I requested the favour of
Mr. Roebuck's support for the Society ; and I have not heard
one of the Committee speak of the letter of Mr. Roebuck in
reply, otherwise than as being, in the highest sense of the
term, candid, and as doing Mr. Roebuck great credit.—
(Cheers.) I will now, if you will allow me, say a few words
in defence of the corporation,—(Confusion) I did not oppose
the Reform Bill, even after I saw what was Lord John Rus-
sell's intention with regard to close boroughs; I was a defender
of the Reform Bill.—(Mr. Edwards here confirmed the truth of
the speaker's statement.) When the privilege of returning the
Members for the City was taken from the corporation, the
brightest jewel in their crown was removed—(Laughter)—and
very properlywere they deprived of this privilege.--(Loud cheers.)
It has been asserted that the corporation pave the manage-
ment of all the charities of this city; they have not the ma-
nagement of one single charity. The greater portion of the
corporation subscribed to, and sat on the committees of several
of the charities; but they had no more control over the affairs
of the societies to which they were so connected, than any
other private individual would have in similar circumstances.—
(A gentleman here said that the chartered charities were the
class here alluded to.) Captain LYE admitted that the corpo-
ration did possess the management of the chartered cha-
rities.—The speaker continued—The subject of bathing
has been alluded to; and it has been said, that no poor
man can bathe in this city gratuitously : I assert the con-
trary. If a medical man give a poor patient a certificate,
by an application to the Mayor he can obtain free admis-
sion to a bath at the end of Bath-street.—(Great confusion.)
As to the paving and watching of the city, the corpora-
tion have nothing at all to do with either of those measures.
The Commissioners of Police attend to these things; and here
is your friend, Mr. Allen, who has been a Commissioner for a
great number of years, and who will tell you that I am right.
—(Laughter.) Among the Commissioners of Police who ges
nerally attend there are three or four who are also members of
the Corporation, and nine or ten citizens; so that if the Corpo-
ration were to propose anything detrimental to the interests of
the citizens at large, they would be certainly outvoted.—
(Cheers.) But, again ; as regards the Court of Requests,—
sometimes called the " Monday-week" Court—(A laugh)—
the Corporation have nothing to do with the administra-
tion of justice there. Igo there as often as any of them,
and that is very seldom, and merely by accident. The
custom of sending bucks has likewise been alluded to.
But when, I would ask, have any bucks been received by
the Corporation, of which they have not invited their
respectable fellow citizens to partake ?—(Disapprobation.)
I am not here for the purpose of opposing Corporation
Reform--I do not appear before you wishing to prevent
your petitioning for Corporation Reform. (" Will you
sign the petition ?")—One word more, and I have done. A
very sufficient reason can be given for the Mayor's not having
granted the Hall for the purpose of this meeting. Even if
any Peer, or man of influence, had applied for it for the pur-
pose of holding a public meeting there, it would not have been
granted ; for it has been a standing order of the corporation
for some time, not to allow the Guildhall to be used for any
public meetings. I have myself shown Mr. Roebuck the
room, and he immediately said, it was unfit, on account of the
furniture it contained, even had it been sufficiently capacious.
As to the corporation spending thsir funds in furniture for the
Guildhall; the money goes into the hands of tile tradesmen
of this city, and through them, becomes a benefit to the whole
community. Captain Lye concluded his address by saying,
that, for himself, he cared not a jot what sort of corporate
reform was adopted, or of what privileges the corporate body
were dispossessed, provided the system which might be
established in the place of the present one should be found to
be conducive to the happiness and prosperity of the
people.—(Loud applause.)
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to offer a few words in explanation
respecting the subscription to the Bath and West of England
Agricultural Society. He must say, that he had considered
his letter to Mr. Lye to have been misinterpreted ; but as Mr.
L. had stated that the Committee of the Agricultural Asso-
ciation had thought it a very candid communication, and it
did him great credit, he should merely read the letter in ques-
tion without any further comment. (Mr. R. here read the
letter.) The speaker then proceeded to observe, that if he
had subscribed to this Society, he would have been expected
to subscribe to other, perhaps as deserving, Societies. He
was not in those circumstances that he could afford to sub-
scribe to all the Societies of Bath ; and even if he could not
subscribe to one, he would not be ashamed to own it to-morrow.
—(Cheers.) No doubt, Lord John Thynne could afford it.
beeause he received a quid pro quo. Those who got into
offices of pecuniary benefit could well afford to give some part
of the plunder to those who put them in the way of such gains.
He (Mr. R.) could not pay his constituents so well as he could
serve them. In all persons, however low their station in life,
there was a pride in regard tomoney matters; but persons con-
nected with close corporations were proportionably mean.—
(Cheers.) Lord John Thynne had given to the corporation
this and that and t'other ; and, in return, they had given him
the power to sell himself to what or who he pleased. Depend
upon it, if such men as these pay anything to you, they will
make you return more to them.—(Laughter.) If I were to
subscribe anything to any society, it would be in my private,
and not in my public capacity.—(Cheers.)
Mr. Cats's—The corporation of Bath possess the privilege
of the management of all the Chartered Charities of which
they are the Trustees. As to the commis.ioners of Police ;in
the parish of Bathwick they are chosen for life ; and in the
out-part of Walcot things are managed in a similar manner.
After some further remarks on the mode in which the commis-
sioners of Police were elected in the four in-parishes of the
city, Mr. Crisp retired, amid loud cheers.
G. F. Josms, Esq. then rose for the purpose of moving a
resolution declaratory of regret that the Town Hall had been
refused for the purposes of the present meeting; and in doing
thate observed
, that for a man to be a Magistrate, it implied
Eta
w"ehaPost sessed, or ought to possess, some knowledge of law.
stationer he would ask, was there in the composition of a
proApirorsiongilteowress
Justiceb.e72f an apothecary, to make him fit to sit on the
the carper:lt? Lord John Thynne has, with his patrons,
wAin now
gluvenz. received his political death-blow ; and we
their finishing stroke, or coup de grace.
fter some n
furtheni
eeldobeciservationsm s
baJnodn.es concluded by
olution he held *
the chair, and carried the motion, which was then put from
W. HUNT, Esq aitanimousiy.
nothing so bad, but that someertiwant of room, said, there was
we are compelled to onoitl. seine other observations, which
ing it on the other side; but tting good might be said respect_
the amount of good or evil,l Lib.aulance of the account gave
benefit—which may
the city; and which,
accrue from it. Mr. H. concludeal °'
would be laid down in various parts :17erving, that petitions
he had no doubt, would be numerously
Proposed by T.
Meetinr Mr.
Roe-
A vote of thanks to the Chairman wasilTed'
carried
Falconer, Esq. ; seconded by John Allen,%sw
unanimously ; and, after giving three cheersl.fo; and
buck, and three cheers for Mr. Hunt, the
Mr'

A DEAD SHOT.—An Alderman of a Cor-
poration not distant more than 100 miles from Ripon
in a sporting excursion the other day, unluckily missed his
intended game and killed three Geese, for which he had to
pay M.—. York Courant.