The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-07 00:00:00

IRELAND.

On our return to the gallery we found
Air. It WALLACE on his Irgs. He had had intervieNr
with the Postwaster-General upon the subject to which
t.e was about to refer, end he bed been received b 7 that

coitrl6ty. 5!1.1 t! believed
,l,tt if that Noble Duke could fitoi it to be in his power
cornett the abuse he woad do so. Nov what
te, (Mr. Wallace) had to complain of was, that letters in
otral Post-office were really opened or unfolded,
it; SC :De other means read, and that their contents were
a eade known to those persons who were ensiaged in
he Po.t office, and titpitchy all secrecy, all confi-
eence, both public awl private, was violated. Now it
would ill become him to make such a charge as this unless
he had in the first place made himself master of some at
'lse proceedings in the establishment to which he had e-
ferred. But he held in his' h and the report of the let
hr
a'ootniniseion upon the Post-effice revenue, &c., in 1829,
and it seemed to him to be most ably drawn up ; h t no
ttention' whatever had been civet' to the recommendations
eentained in this report, nor to the two previous ones in ode
1788 and 1797, all of which went to sugeest conside•
settle refortnalons in the Post-office department.—( Tie
Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the report ot
the Committee of 1829, which recommended the puttine
Post-office Establishment upon the hest footing, not.
only as yielding in itself a cnnsiderahle revenue, but ale', as
en auxiliary to the other branches of the revenue.) Now
lls meant to contend that the establishment was manased
with meanness and parsimony. It was time that it should
he placed on a better footing. They had in that House a
!,ford of the Treasury, a First Lord of the Admiralty.
t‘ovaasllainwthae;y
ogrea
pSecretary
oto
answer th Sect.inetgatriitri
i;esanrdelatthievree
matters, but the Post-off (ie was an excep,iiin. The Poo-
masters General were moved allow with each stieceed-
ing Administration. The exclusive powers which were
given to the Postmaster-General were confirmed anti de-
fined by various Aets of Parliament, and they consi.ted in
the settlement of the pests and reetiletion of all corre.
spondence between all parts of the King's dominions, with
the exception of Ireland ; and in the appointment of
such (Beers and servants as he should think fit. Here
then was a power which extended to an unconstitutional
limit; the power was too vast to he riven to an individual:
In addition to the appointment of officers anal ssrvante to
any number he might think fit, he had the power to t dze
seem ity. He had also the power of regulating even the
amount' of postages. The Secretary's office cams next.
The salary was 3001. a year ; but, by various fees, ern'.
laments, and privileges, the sirulfon brought not less
than 4.665/. a year. He would merely state the fact,
without at present going into the inquiry whether any
Secretary ought to have so large a remuneration for his
services •as this. The Secre•ary had besides almost the
entire virtual delegation to all offices under the Po tonlice,
though nominally vested in the Postmaster-General. Ties
remuneration to the clerks was rather of an extraordinary
nature, made up of salaries, allowances, and emoluments
of various kinds.—(The Hon. Member read the various
items of allowances, fees, and emoluments front the Report
Of 1829.) There was a fund from which the clerks in
part derived their income, which fund amounted to 39,000/.
a year, and paid to the revenue 750/. It went to the Se.
cretary's clerks and other clerks connected with the esta-
blishment The junior clerks were rated higher than on any
similar establishment. In some of the offices of the ilepart.
men- the remuneration ar:sing from this fund was very high.
What he contended for was that the whole system requirtef
revision. He would now come to the office of Solicitor to the
Past-office. The Report stated that he was paid according to
the usual rate of the profession. He had the authority or
perusing letters with a view to prosecution. In this respect
the authority of the Postmaster-General was delegated to
him. He instituted prosecutions on his authority, and the
Report sated, that though the expense was considershle,
the aum received in the way of penalties was small With
respect to the next point, the inland ()thee, he regiettei
that in consequence of the hour the petition on that subject
could not have been presented that evening, as it weal
have shown the exactions made in England and Ireland by
the clerks of the roads. The head officer in this department
had a s glary of 230/. a year; boo he, as well as the clerks
under him, derive] considerable emolument from other
Flotations and sources.—(l'he Hon. Member enumerated
them from the Report.) He would now come to the Sun.
day duty. He himself had received on a Monday morning
as many as 28 letters, and was told he must pay for them,
as they came by the Sunday b Ts. This was on the 15th
of April, 1829 —(Mr. S•anley, we believe, said acres, the
table that there was no Sunday arrival now.) Well, it
might he so noot, but it was not so at the period he alluded
to. The Report of 1829 recommended that the Post_
office should be managed upon a more liberal plan ; and
he hoped, if too late now, the subject watch! at least he
taken up next session. It recommended, among other
things, that theme should he two places of general deli-
very in place of one, so that the poor and the rich 'nicht
alike he enabled to receive their letters at the same time.
That was not the case now. He did not mean to say
that the rich did not pay extra for this convenience
(" No, no," from Sir J. Graham.) He was toold en, and
that the charge was five shillings a quarter. There were
two windows of delivery, one of which, he understood,
was the early one. The relent stated that the place of
clerk of the roads had no official duty attached to it, and
then went on to show what were the ditties of elseretary,
There were not less than 101 statutes affecting the Pet.
(office, and it was impossible that much inconvenience Mil et
not arise from such a quantity of legislation. Maters were
conducted in a dilatory way, as he was informed by many
mercantile men. They told him that the Oporto and 3a.
in lice packets were detained, instead of sending intelligent's
of their arrival, or deep itching a pestchaise
diately with the mails. This business was managed better
by the newspapers. They hail their intelligence by ex.
presses of their own, which might give them and their
friends an opportunity of profitably jabbing in the Funds.
He did not mein ti charge the gentlemen of the pre,..
with doing so. With respect to the Sunday brig he made
inquiry by letter of the Secretary, whose answer was, that
no bags were received in London on Sundays, and nom
made up in London which could reach the country offices
en a Sunday. Tate rsgul &one ot the Past office were se
various and complicated that it would require as cued a
head and as much experience to manage that department
as the Excise or Customs. In 1815 it was found impose
sit& to collect the revenue on foreign letters. It was
determined, therefore. to send them out free; and, to
compensate for any loss to the revenue, it was determined
that on their coming in, the charge should be eightpence,
in place of sixpence. This practice, however, as-as now
given up. One reason assigned against private delivers
was that it would he injurious to the packet service. He
believed their packets were the very worst •ontt of vessel.) of
the kind, and the most dangerous to the sailors; they wf,e.
much inferior to the Americion packets, being slow, and one
satisfactory in other respects. They ouelit to have vessels
built tier the purpose that could sail. There was much
ground for complain' in the coioniee. A system, of
spunging was practised on the mercantile rnen. He ha:'_
(to doubt that letters were reit' at the Post-office. Teti,
might be done without opening them, by the application ct
a strong light, but he believed the seal was broken in some
tases. He had had a correspondence on this suoject with
the Postmaster-General, and his Grace informed him that
be would endeavour to have it put an end to. Ti-'i he
believed was done; but the same course might be puts
sued again, unless an effectual stop was put to it by law,
The first case of this kind which hp should mention, wea
a charge heought by a person residing in the town which,
lie had the honour of representing, relative to a letter. Ia
answer to one of the questions put to hiin upon this sidle
jest, the Feiinbureh postmaster sail that the postmaster
-.vas enided to Imik into letters, anal if the postmark was
not d ited from the place named in the letter, that he setae
to communicate the circumstance to the Selieitor. Thie
letter was directed by the parish clerk of Greenock to Mr.
Eaton, the banker, summoning him on (as we under-
,eood) some business connected with the parish. The
!eater was given to a person who brought it to Edinburgh
n his pocket, and then put it in the Past-office. A pros
secution was instituted against the clerk. Note' how could,
lie circumstance be pnesibly known at the Po,t.officr,
un!ess the letter had been reed? Another individual of
Glasgow comptaiteel that his letter was opened. It was
one of a parcel illegally conveyed, and he was under penal-
eies amounting to 500/.

Mr. STANLEY begged tr, ask the Hon, Member
:vhother it was not distinctly stated to him by the Po,t-
-ma‘ter-Genersl that no person but himself had this power.
old whether the Hon. Memb,r did not express himself
,iii fled ?

Mr. WALLACE—What he said to the Postmast-r-
General was, th it if ho avowed publicly that this practice
af looking into letters should he put a stop to he would
e satisfied. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for
return of all instruments in which by law or authority
aostinisters were authorized by strong lights or eitherwiso
t ) ascertain the contents of letters, in writing or figures.
; also a return of all proaeeutions instituted within
!he last year, by authority of the Post office, fur itl,ga,
aonvevance of letters, the names of the parties, the
,f non ity in each case, how such penalty wd% I
of,
olpiovettlents adopted in the system BUCKINGHAIi thought there
yon in the Post-office hu,nt. He mum no-,
"tl-I.6entleman in big cort-
, of matiggbetmebrelt natc3tri2i
tawever, concur with, the
iike•
4rdliace) was aware that the ostotaster-General had
Umd put a letter
n
tisavowrd having given
'lt
(LordFr authoritylAntialtt:':: Ot:tmijuu' ee( r:‘
if
to
.t
i!aint rtk-pectiog the Po t-
supposed
tar Hun.
;,en letters. The Hun.

lalmself whether it was possible for any one to see tin
date of that letter without breaiing th- -ea. " Why."
an d the N -hl- Lord, " the se .1 i. not broken, as the H
31embee may pereetve. yet I can se. the date of th
hot. r."—(here the Noble Lord, squeezing the sides
the let sr, and Tonkin':' tinder the folds. read the der,
" Dub! n," &c., amidst the laughter of the House.)
the -ame manner might the date have been di-covered
the Postmas.er of Greenock. The Postinate er• Genera
hail disa• ow. d th. ac , and the P..stinaster himself ha,
declar• d that he had not opened the letter. The Het .
Gentleman had nut a notice of motion on ti e indef. hoi 1
for " Copses of the instructions under a hich the Pee
masers claim a right to iinf Id or open letters in all o,
at y of the Post-t•ffices of Great Britain and Ireland.'
Seeing such a no ice, his mind cert-onlv lad not been le
to . xeect that he ;to ode question of P .st-office manage
ment would b.- brought beton- the House. He cootesse..
theta fere. that lie lied not come prepated to me-t
th
1 nethei tot tea entents of the El n. Gentleman. H
certainly had no objecti. n to the motein of the
Gentleman ; at the same time he must warn lis
that lie must not expect to have any such instinc
Clone as tt ose I.e hail moved fer returned to h •
me ii-n, for there could be none such in existence. It
foe., such ins-I-mei. ne went.' be instructions to comet'
a 11'1,11.-t Hear, heat. ) The Hen. Gentleman ha
r. fr ed to the R. port. f 1819 ; bu- that Report did not
re fee ;0 the present state of thing.. None tit the clef Iss
th. Pest office towlo Id more than one • ffice. It :nigh
perhene hive been the case then, but it was no longet
—(Hear.) He believed there was a teturn now befm.
the H use w/-ich showed the incerrectness of the state
meat the Hen. Gentleman in that particular. H
Nvt.ted not follow the Hon. Gentleman through the who!.
of hie statements. One . f his roinpla.n a had been anawer.d
by the Hen. s 1 ether for Sh. ffi I i who had just spoke..
and I.e F ad no doubt that upon inquiry he would find tha
most, if not ell, of hi- c mpleinte were in the satne pre
dicament. The Hon. Gentlemen must k•-ow the neces
airy there was of protecting the revenue from frauds. T
anew them to take lilace tor want of due vigilance was
it flier an injury tin tl ose who dor not commit them. 11,
m rely made these obeetvatio- a in answer to the genre
sot ements of the Hon. G. ntlem tn. He did not tecollee
any particular toatement which called upon him to detail
the House b. making an answer to it. He would mere le
caution the House that the information upon which .1i
Hon. Gentlem in had acted, and the books to wt ich ll-
had referred, were of a date long past. One of his cases
omit ted in 1827, and the report to that House until•
svloch he had relied was presented in 1829.
Mr. STEWART had been cunneet. d with the Hon.
Gentleman opposite in the investigation int., the (.I:eel:nick
it 9.; and he was ex.remely sorry that he had nut • eemeo
it just and expedi. nt to confine his statements to that case,
.ind also that he had under the circumstances thought ii
becoming to bring the matter at all hetote the House.
The Hen. Gentleman and hims. If had had an interview
with the Pestmaster General, and nothing could be more
manly, straightforward, or courteous than his conduct.
Het ad read to them all the correst.osidence that had 1 ass ti
upon the subject with Gteenock, and so satisfied was ti e
Hen. Gentleman with the explanation of the Noble Dote
that he intimated an intention of not proceeding with his
motion. Was it then right, atter such an occurrence,
thus to spring a mine beneath the feet of the Postmasters
General and of that House, by bringing into discussion the
ode nuestinn of Post office management? He (31r,
Stewart) had many dealines with the Post-office. H
-lepended eta atly upon th.ir punctuality and despatch,
and he was bound to s y that so m nently did they possess
these qualifications in the di charge of their publ c
functions that it was matter of wenitet to him, and to all
who, like himself, had opportunith s of judging. All
perso. s would testify to the courtesy and soldiertike de
*patch with which complaints, from whatever quer er
they came, were attended to' y the Noble Personage at ti e
brad of that depattinent. The justice of the individual
eese compl.ined of had herr, satisfied ; the peon!.
of Greenock were satisfied; and it had been &elated
upon oath that the letter had not been opened.
Mr. WALLACE explained.
Lord LOVe THER oloerved that any one who referred
to shat censtirut. d the law regarding the P..et- office could
not fail to he forcibly struck by the perplexity as we 1 as
oh-cut ity which pervaded it. I deed be hi pdti e Noble
Lard ( Althorn) in the next Session, with a view 01 re
moving the cause of complaint in chat department, would
see the necessity of consolidating this v. hole of the lows
respecting it, as was the case with all the other pu,lic
gds.
31.. COBBE'I'T would recommend the Hon. Glide-
in ,n never again to have interviews with the Postmaster.
G n cal upon such subjects. Nothing could be more
date:triune. In his own case he had a complaint to make
of the Post.. ffice. He had two peraoris ready 0. swear
tha- they had put a letter addressed to him tutu the pest.
The peermaster was also ready to swear that lie hail re-
velvet' and despatched t. a letter. but he (Mr. Cobbett)
never got it. For his part he believed the Poste. ffic
read just whatever they liked. Tee llot.se, lie b-
thought as he did no.) He thought so at all evints,
and always wr accordinglj.--(A sues )
Mr. STANLEY was sure it would be matter of deep
regret t the Pestnia-ter Gene al, if he had been the
me-tine of in ..1 if rine so as .0 po.ipone the publication for
even one week of the impottant lucubratioiet of the Hon.
31emher For Oi b arms-(A laueli.)
M.. COBRETT—N -t et all. _ _ _

- - -
\lr. STA LEY—He was glad it had not been ,to se-
rious a math r, aid at all events it was out to be supposed
that the Hon Alet..ther di t not keep a copy of th..se
im-
portant art.chs upon which he was in the habit of exer.
ct•in; hi• pen. What was the nature of the ease I.o,ught
hef•re the Htdise? 'rhoe was to question of bie•iking
open a seat. That part of the case was given up. The
letter, it appeared, was wti-ten in Du• Ito, carlied over to
Green. k, aid there pu. into the Post-office, in to aud—
he tree.--t the House to observe—in fraud of the revenue.
—(ll. ar to ar.) Th t tact aas e Mess d. The attempt
was defraud the Pt st offi.e of one shilling and hour.
pence—a ft olld who h was constahtly practised in that
part iti the conotty. Th !text step was the th-c,very of
th-s tr. tot The Hon. G nil man said it could not have
b en discovered without In eaktog the seal, and so violating
the trust repos. din the fu.t•t•t ffic . Now his Noble
Friend (1..01d Al horp) had shown the Hon. G ntlentan
that it was possible to d SClArri the date o a letter with.
cu, breaking the seal.—(A laue,t.) Then the Hon.
C 'Mercian contended that it was at any rate a violation o
roofi•letc•e. Ihe Posits' istrr General had to!cl him the
pao.tutaster was not authorized in -'p, ntng a letter nor in
lookmv into it evtn tit get evidence of a !rand upon
the revenue. Tote Hon. Groh-man knew vary wed ti at
the P.m master- G 'Loral had ordered the postmaster to
ake a 1.0.W..c do etaration to that stf. et. This was the
tegard to 0 e Postmaster G. to tat. Toes e was a
Jtatol at the tom m or it ; and y. t, alter the statist .ctoas
obtained from the Postmaster-General, the Hon Gentle.
matt Caine torts and to make his con plaint to that
Alter a f w words Iron Ni. 0 DwlrEu and Lord AL
Tifrite the first resolution was put from the Chair and

afire-ii to.
Ater a few words from Mr. WALLACE, Mr. STANLEY,
And Mr. ST.F.wa la, the second resolution was withi,rawn.
Otter a few acrd. horn S r J. GRAHAM, in atiNwer to a
que•tian !min Mr. CLAY, which was mitutible in the
gait-Ty, the mot f Air. Clay, that the e ition of
Henry sundae Perrott be tefetred to a Select Committee,
was pos!ponetl.
FOREIGN ENLISTMENT BILL. . .

Mr. J. MUKHA Y, pursuant to notice, ruse to bring
forward a init,iGti tot the repeal of the Foreign Enlistment
WI. The Hon. Gentleman releried to the grounds upon
which ti,c F..r,ign Enlistment Bi 1 had been passed. Tt.e
reast•mt which prevaled in that H use upon the orc.sit.n
,were not satidaetory to the people. It was the gre.test
tlitl,StiCe to deprive a man of his right to call.). his skill,
.indu;:try, science, and c.urage whoever it could honour
ably ava:l 'dim—(hear. hear.) ‘Vtien individuals so
qua ,died were eng,iged abroad in scenes of gallantry anti
igh.ry, which added to the credit and character of the
gauntry to which they belonged, was it fitting or decent
that th, re should he an Art of Pathament In e:Dstence
'Handing thew as (Tutorials in the eye of the law? lu
point 01 poi cy was it othtrwise tt an iiesirable that naval
and military men out of employment in this country
should transfer their abilities w eresoever it might
b, available, so as to route bark to the defenc• of their
own country in tinie of need?—(Hear, hear, hear.)
And could it be just to restrain men of high coutage
and honour from taking such a course when they were
ac,uady left by their ov.n cotton ytnen in a starving condi
tion ? It w,•*4 fur the ineividuals to judge for themselves
of tie danger of the entelprise. The coon ry was not to
be expected to am the part of an over-anxt.,us nurse it,
gualaii,e wt 1r tot' great care the lives of its subjects. I
was not pttasittle at all event• to prevent indivittuals from
going into the service of fire;gn states ; and, that being
the case, was it advisable that they should go with a
stigma ovonthttp:i.. Ou the ground, thereto; e, that this
Bill was nttre,,iy untivaiting at useiess, It ought :o bt
repeal-. 41;t,"Mentuer:::jn conclusion, moved ft.
" least- inirit4friAlill to irepeil 59 G It. 111 c. 69,
count 'Ti • obli4tfilirtkoteigtt E.ohattnt.nt
Tit IhrtYtiin4tAiii.hcetgt. cotiife..o and put Irmo theehair,
did Ai motion, ligt to oppose the motn, but
to "rtitit in his law. If a Go.
v,iiin, t-
fogey to , •
its subjects iron,
E,o,ns int! • ; ewes, it bad not power ,
rt?