The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-03 00:00:00

in reply. lie quoted, against the opinion of the I-lon.
and Leached Member for Dublin, which he highly re-
specter!, the counter-opinion of another Mr O'Connell, at
a meeting in Dublin, at which Lord Cloncurry presided.
That gentleman stated that there was a crying necessity
for poor larva in Ireland, and that they would not he
Christians if they did not, by means of poor laws, attempt
to diminish that miss of misery which made Ireland an
exception to almost all the nations of Europe. This was so
rich—(Loud laughing)—•hat he was not disposed to go
further ; but there was one phrase he wished to give them.
It was this : ' As I am but newly a convert to this opi.
nion," said Air O'Connell, " I come to the advocacy of
the subject with all the fervour of a renegade."—(Loud
laughter.) He should in this case treat the opinions of these
two gentlemen of the same name as two equ 11 quantities
on opposite sides of an algebraical equation, and he
found they neutralised each other so completely that their
effect was precisely nothing.—(lmmoderate laughing.)
He disclaimed all prejudice against or toward Ireland and
its inhabitants, and assured them his object in this motion
was primarily to insure to the Irish peasant and labourer
the same comfort and responsibility which had hitherto
been the characteristic of the English labourer. He
trusted that the Noble Lord would be careful in the selec-
tion of persons he put upon this Commission, and that he
would pl ice none on it who were prepossessed in favour
of any particular system, and most especially that he
would exclude 311 political economists, to whom the Hon.
Member for Middlesex was so partial.—(Loud laughter.)
They ought to be men who elicited ficts without accom-
p toying them with any comments of their own, so as to
leave the Legislature at liberty to do what was right upon
the premises. Under these circumstances he would not
oppose the motion of the Noble Lord.
Sir R. PEEL was afraid that in our system of legisla-
ting on particular objects, we sometimes disregarded the
progress of knowledge in other countries. H-, thought
that the Noble Lord might glean much, in this emergency,
from the law and practice of foreign States will regard
' to their poor.
The address was then agreed to, the word " other-
wise" being substituted alter the words " by law," at the

suggestion of Mr. Richards.
An HON. 51EMBER, in the absence of Mr. CA YLEY,
through indisposition, postponed his motion on the mone-
tary system.

The LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a
Bill to make the payment of creditors in that part of the
kingdom called Scotland more certain and expeditious, and
also to regulate money transactions generally there.—
Leave granted.
HAND-LOOM WEAVERS.

Mr. JOHN MAXWELL, in bringing forward his
motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to con-
sider the petitions of the hand-loom weavers in Scotland,
for the esttblishment of Boards of Trade to regulate the
prices of wages, was ready to withdraw his proposal, if
the Noble Lord opposite would consent that the general
committer, about to be moved for by him, should be spe-
cially ins,ructed to consider those petitions.
The motion being seconded,

Lou' ALTHORP certainly thou2lit it incumbent o❑
the House to show some sympathy for the sufferings of
the hand-loom weave's, who, by the competiton of ma-
chinery, had been reduced to great distress; but, notwith-
standing this, he very much doubted the propriety of re-
ferring any such petitions as came from them for boards
of trade to regulate wages to a Select Committee, as any
such appointment would seem as if the House sanctioned
that proposal, whilst, in his opinion, nothing could be
more mischievous, or more likely to produce distress than
any interference with the equaliz itio❑ of the rate of labour
by competition.
Mr. ELLICE heard the Noble Lord's sentiments with
great regret, as the hand•loom weavers would certainly
look upon his determination to be a sign that little or no
sympathy existed in the Government for their sufferings.
Lord STORMOIrs'"I' did not see any reason why the
petition of the parties should not be referred to the Com-
mittee, to be proposed by the Noble Lord, to inquire into
the state of trade and commerce.

Lord ALTHORP did not object to the petitions being
laid before the Committee.

After a few words from Mr. Maxwell, Mr. Fielden,
Mr, Tennyson, Mr. Ewing, and Mr. Aglionhy, the mo-
tion was withdrawn.
DOVER ELECTION.

Air. lIALCOAIBE rose to make his promised motion
respecting the u'e of Government influence at the late
elections for Dover. The Hon. Member adverted to several
cases in proof of his assertion ; particularly that of Mr.
Rigden, the clerk of the Ordnance Works. Mr. Rigden,
in the first of the two recent elections, had favoured the
Opposition candidates. Immediately after the election,
and without any cause assigned, Mr. Itigden w.is sus-
pended, and Mr. O'Shea was sent for from Ireland to
firl his situation. After the second election, how-
ever, Mr. O'Shea was sent b ,ck to Ireland, and
Mr. Rigden was restored to his office. He (Mr. H.)
had no doubt that the suspension of Mr. Rigden was
made use of by his (Mr. Holcombe's) opponent, Captai❑
Stanhope, for the purpose of deterring other persons in
the service of Government from voting against the Go-
vernment candidates. These circumstances ought, in his
opinion, to induce the House to determine to see the cor-
respondence on the subject. He believed it to be a fact,
that the Captains of the Post-office packets had been
written to, that if they did not vote for Captain Stan-
hope, they should be deprived of their situations. He
had not himself seen the letters in which that was said—

(Hear, bear)—hut the Captains of those vessels had pre
viously stated to him that they were most anxious for his
success ; and he would ask the House if, when they heard
that those Captains afterwards voted for his opponent, they
could doubt that there had been Government interfe-
rence?—(A laugh.) He would further state that he bad
received a letter that morning from a person who had
been formerly employed in the Government service in
Dover, and who stated, that he and five others had been
discharged, because they had given their votes in his (Mr.
Fialcombe's) favour ; and he understood that another let-
ter bad come from a gentleman there, in which it was said
that 16 more were to be discharged on the same account.
The Hon. Gentleman then stated, that in consequence of
persons in the employment of Government having refused
to support him, unless he produced authority from some
member of the Government for them to vote as they
pleased, he had written a letter to the Right Hon. Secre-
tary to the Treasury, stating the scruples of the voters, and
requesting the required authority. In the answer which
he received, the Right Hon. Gentleman stated that
he could not think it probable that the interference men-
tioned in his letter had taken place, or that threats of any
kind bad been used as coming from the Government ; that
no person had been authorized by the Government to in-
terfere, and that " no person would he deprived of his
situation for voting as he should think it his duty to do."—
(Cheers, and laughter.) The House might think that a
very fair answer, and he (Mr. Holcombe) was at first in-
clined to be of the same opinion ; but still the voters were
not satisfied, because the word duty occurred in two places
in the course of the letter—(A laugh)—which they con-
sidered as an indirect way of telling them that it was their
duty to vote for the Government candidate. He (Mr.
Holcombe) accordingly wrote a second time to the Right
Hoe. Gentleman, stating the new difficulty, and requesting
an answer in language that would satisfy the voters. Ile
would beg attention to the answer, as it was a very short
one —(A laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman merely
slid, "-he had received his letter, and was surprised his
former letter on the same subject had not given satisfaction,
and he had only to add, that no person %mild he deprived
of his situation for giving such a vote as he should think
it his duty to give."—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right
Hon. Giditleman did not write that they might vote as
they pleased, but that they might vote as they considered
it their duty-'
to do; and he could tell the House that
though Hen. Members might think the terms were syno-
nymous, he could tell them that at Dover there was a
very perceptible distinction between them.—(Loud laugh-
ter.) He, therefore, wrote again to the Right Hon. Se-
cret try to the Treasury, that be (Mr. Hilcombe) should
think it his duty to bring the matter before the House of
Commons, unless he received the support at the poll of
every voter in the service of the Government.— (Loud
laughter.) The Hon. Member concluded by moving,
" That a Committee be appointed to investigate the in-
terference by, or in name of, the Government, particu-
larly in the Posteoflice and Ordnance Departments, at the
two last eleeti,oo,at Dover."
Colonel PERCEVAL seconded the motion.
'Mr. P. THOMSON was astonished, after the flou-
rish of trumpets with which the Hon. Member had in-
troduced his name, that not a single fact had been brought
forward to connect him with the second election at Dover.
He only bad stated something about having heard that a
gentleman of Dover had sent the names of sixteen indi-
viduals belonging to the Ordnance, who had given their
votes for him (Mr. Holcombe). Now, be would ask if
there was anything in that to justify the Hon. Member in
bringing such a charge against him ? As far as regarded
his Connection with Dover, he could state (as he bad the
poll-hooks before him) that more of those in the employ-
mentn,,t than in i
hntf,te nature
heG(l),ve(roNnfircri. t e Governmentent had voted in favour of his oppo-
-Irh°ln'a)fa ivonuter.rfer That
insthat showed
o wed
whate
Indeed, so far front the Go-
town was.—( Hear, hear.)
vernment candidate (as he was called) receiving support,
he (fir. Thomson) had considered himself as rather badly
used in not receiving more support.—(Hear, hear.) He