The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-09 00:00:00

itk°l(
the OA i' 0 the deo, a
f ai Que.tlet
oi ie t,. , it:Nee:lves .
10_, ?...„(fieft, ti,, not u_efr power, a told the farmer
,1
. tat they had his son
. „eteoeserts
;bolt!: hi.
doie,ro..l
~w.oulal shoot him if he did
1_
lelo4oid err& 144, ll_ el tea,
stationedHlC farmer who, with two
e 0 laagsriti joia4;eted it, ~.,. behind the door, im
!retooled t the furl be Terry-Alts fired, but without' Ley-
; sbitatiifug.stsbratiitl nit
4. one
of
them mer 8 sons returned the fire, and
heir b 0 "et/ led' That en' upon which
allay , kie ti; ittee man was carried to the hospital,
from and
) relieve t"jit tte> kit "'Pt was
to extract some informati
easant Pveeleile 'le father without
; and shortly before hisond
oneruhoedtbaroci :: zei2„,,,,,ilaeoardinvyghtheacteshse was not likely to recover, Zit
ownerti anta ill. e 'Pile ;,', terres. en
taking
i,l dee • otti.,"%le 61 Son it' g his last adieu, his only words
hard, and die like a man."
le %vow"
~,,, "oce of would per' hold.
cove that, with such a system, the
%Nal ._ a diec,,,,,,
iwtrh:iit:
61:0
0::di 1 foi
ode to( ltaysi Was, a, far rY was very slight. But bed as this
wtisitelifikiita
:thew,
it he hfoeunhdade mentioned, there were other
~
bedrive
hi
prtiegitle:teteezerbyr:Arrieralled, one oe7ruwwallhyombarLwalsfinfouroinnnsetactnicoeu,
aAnts,
the othmurdeas sure to he attacked at
uid
(flee,
ri'--o`tabo be eif the4e° to 1,,,,. 'if not This they did, in
ma
itoica 140 at evils of 1,""g recourse t hreedlaw, for it was ore
the q sod 1 lAN& the 1 :e TerrY-Alt ot
, system, that it put down the
seinebe
bee) Nbir du? --( Hear, hear.) If two persons in the
tCO The 'Nat bothel. society
useof
corie tilly *ere
told of them quarrelled, it was almost im-
clt the hte)", 'Ott special ity the shmild escape the Terry-Alts.
awed
iesg
bey.
64
I.4btr cum Hon. Members who opposed that
le
felt
thet
it
ciatoeti, dial in
would put down those
.. Pe YPit cb,...._ r
t_ in King's County, because they hail
than fuffeer„
_,d by tbe ' st tie
itiwut the:ea...ohne disturbances in the County of
:is dangero Z 41,41 byo systernsUen
.Members did not keep in view,
u d be mere different than those
B•i•bad s 1) Piv the riot • t
• • debt kt It e nee. tra In three. two counties. In Clare,
biret•-'4 ;01 kiiY had '''' great '
e oldie' pi the sga none of
~numbers, and turned up the land ;
Bat be Of le Lad Which_ Were those organized and secret night
, 930 re :Thly been
'I Prevalent in Kine's Count•
If
a hre:ghhieth rt .stoltr oe (Le
~ Y meetine,, such a. had takeny.p'aee
rag", eir lith ate* ws -r.. Oxinint
i 44 4._ Lord
h.._ (two) had no doubt that the
raced 0 tabs"
t. decider:o( Isetk.
iTeet to re.
rte,,,e been able to so less th. m.
hat
no
...
~
~ t"e k oetv 7u,„, martial he saw no difficulty. There
mr,
fro': 01;
40nok,tha; ;if,"
the race crewed. and it was necessary to
rest deliberation, it appeared to
what the fed ?Net' ifetrtbe4tti""hro hid no other course to pureue Some
. aa , .p, Perigee . denied the existence of any. danger to
lt that the t la I embers ad
nuking it. tff. alikyl that uting or . ,
4.) l'he • kiltne . mop giving evidence. Why, it could
, toe sale; ea aa seizes 8
_: of the cases of assault tried
Pe f., bee NO4 Proeee act b"
committed
ril as t a ‘,.._ pqice Note. This on person, who had
of course, could not appear
,;,lead the" 14,7. 11 r'gietere '.
~,,
Hero'
11, tin I,re
ty t Which merely stated effects, not
(, .
I, .
~. as another
e ;leard....
ei ~,,, hieli•iolembers had part of the Bill to which
eusrirr 'res„, ne ean,i,, made the strongest objeetione,
,00 ono
tg . , ' "et ed eui,e essential to produce the de-
•srd Pa' trd rs 0, ' h
l' 'loped "
AOO ._ ~ at the_ lit be able to sh th -
le ha" d 'on, , The ui re opposit. . ••w ose Hon.
, _tie mat 1,, 1 }IN., 11 „ ~,, e inn to it was ill-founded. T.' is
E.:'in lido°
ri qtt,4. 'ini)e 1)(46:3 on t ained in the 1 9th clause. and
....1
At
tbi,
17
011
too. o
e‘es : muter a Magistrate's warrant, to enter
L e, 0,
.i
.. fetril•qided i„ Jr.'. the night-time -(Hear.) It had
Hos „order+, e, 'Pr oce ':"iitectien that I• .
,liiled 644 •,4,.. 7 ~,, aone, ta .. tdis power, wl en granted
i loch
Too ,"seise a hid
bee.t. a been atrociously abused ; and
no__ a.
_.O ~t,_ 4,, nature
~ 0 mentioned of a very horrible and
to tor ttlu ° he, ' lie had n •
)4 fiatoog
tot Nits! eod n Buell . 0 wish to deny that there
er a
a„
st instances of atrocity, but the had
e ofarersruPeeptiiio. PtLetithehlett int_ Y .111 totally different from: thet which
the irate lie ifo's a7ca., wiu 'it-et by the Bin
.now brought forward.
ore t° ".,t4 tV ait'et, 'Pe on tie° fertn„ Insurrection Acts were io force,
ld I tre-.4,11'` -410 411 - Petty session
to act as a controlling in- '1
__„0„.....(6" vet 1.-^lti,l,t it r°44tlnentl ic)ns
in-
not' to tettp,i7oy orftepn,,,,tbk,
0Y the Alagistrates were possessed
, in tne Po t
tb4,,ald. 44bordina,Pe:verh, and had the aid of a num. -
o were in like manner almost
, prove
°f
4111i7,141 I:o"cePt to the Magistrate himself. But the 1
,eFwattl t)I c V?°tillit Pqr W 6 alt
1
~,,s
and hued
1,,,,,, L. .e,
of
thered, for there would be the con-
) ettreibuftk eststl o,..ineapah,.. e sessions, and the Magistrates
kieditei, ',..Zi• ;ite''e of acting by themseivea, and
frLfreaa,roo ait.isoltlf 11.114,.
wial e
imlict. !ell of the Lieutenant of the
,cheero., '1151,, Qv . end autos Po, were trained in the hest possi-
,io„:., of
...,,4 Ron., et to such excellent regulation.. as
....-k
0,
On.filreo:fro-iber„ri, i4l:tlo,4ll..tue,i,rize,c,.owrindeu.c.t, and were completely respon-
. mor, ; °.4etl:aot oeitts,„ by in.e. e Indeed as regarded the power
,o,ii tl. ter 1, 6..1 of lei the
a_'
,h 9
.such a power already existed
..iet ~,.., N., toactian_ "tin ,
bent
of the magisttres, for the
110i-it:de
da, ait.,tt '.e.ef aht%e'n . there could net be produced a sill-
with
.3ro ( !!,
othe'l_Yiktt,...i.bre helix__ resulting from such powers ; and
....1;e PI it,: t-Tui 0, it ;7 . id, any such alma- hail unfortu-
he ti. ise fYi Hs
tike il of th 'uld lie put
ratepoll atal. 41 11.
, ..,,, Caro? tki.,klikuuld 10_,
__ }stem, uteler which the p
lv„"'lii,ta, PI
sell,t, tif . ra,n iten7:ll still more controlled. The
lu_'„,o tot
,h..e!lttit'llitt R.,!_ b r for Dublin had challenged any
4rB 6
tio
p,
ttirmittet,
ont use to show that there existed any, the-
t' hat ° or° ' or. .a • nretiee between what he called predial
) ' they i • 'got gnation
aitc;t. _ ?MI, t t1i,.,, tlie th,it the. The Hon. and Learned Member
ICt,
I, lager rise! Oat'...lieott::eleof
~ whole of the disturbances were alto-
rp„,, salt; t1i,140, 4 el,kid "'e dreadful distress which prevailed
and not from agitation. He (iird
ctt:b( at. 'test: I, „kta4i.Nlll4,in.!°l-I'd
ate
or f%
01 ti
4'4444i1°n betw facts to show that there did
een predial and piilitical agitation
'to
the °trait' il :‘ll' k te4a int th
iielo 144 !kit, e denial made by Hon.. Members, it.
ice ill rr t hits hal la e fler that
an 03404 tt/ be,. 1,,e0 to,dtator at the operations of the Terry-
4ty after. soome peat anti-tithe meet-
jhed ""I,,Pd t 'lt to 4 Pass assthel
oleo for to ;
,;,thttiesy titieid,. m
the
the most seditious resolutions
. nie strongest determination evinced
reeentt.ife fV1100;
ffriletlillit'ettitt:ll(;lo;weActobuther fact to show that the dis-
had nothing to do with the
in
,i, a foratty La tk_N tw_4B, that there
0•t0tc`.,..„ to., 7 6°6,4_0 y,,ars t eie Lad been no tithe outrages
Jo fo•-soi, tit!, ',„olito: 11,,,iruPeratioe'en that county, the clergy having,
Eollosto tb; If..siltio 40
wtithes° ofA the Terry. Alts. declined to col-
a proof that distress had
in dotjeele,olb'e ,tp,',:s it t",h,he outs
• i!ia.ges in Ireland, it would be
40;1
rept; 'pled •ktyr:fiii,jitetv-",0:t
athe.,,.l nit man who had been arrested
g aro, str.., pi. kit'lbet ot,'Ylor. Br sides
and respectable farmer of
pr; ,"tot,hteo teaPney beto:lies, there had not been a sin-
e.... , No ih lttn
...
~.., taken from any person, though
tiled ,pf, r fit ad ad b•:isa
tie. Ireland Proffered. There wa re irotestan;
voiorkee.uurlinadre
ethtbe,t;ial priotohoete'e:bouliwere in an equal state of de-
cs, but not a single instance
• r ale! aVe t tat of tl td of there ore did . , le Ter ere heing a single Protestant in
of the I; till 141,441, l'r pot ,eY AN. In fact, there remained no
traricleieert ket , that ting dow
leetings wie L t th,wht,
va st,„„_
.n these disturbances ; for it
~...rbon 1., Op :40
8-: iews ."5 ''evolutionary petty existed in
di .°to as t_mlid
.. I Gov,, of revolution were not confined to a
eilt o
no Id IA pars 4. '4%, Inment but contemplated
aint
ibid A, NI „ ati,,,
of ,
all the break-
Bo° ritf lie; a.etlidi7areed a
.e property.-(Hear, hear.)
To
coy
vi, it
intlerto
rqd tollth,tar aulumber for Dublin was looked up
, ~_ oise!,lo, ler_ th.!tidew e.oi did
.d conductor of 'he case of this'
;:te'erec of '. 0 iigeZhe ,e!" 111 into 8_ he ewe that power which had
_.oebo 4 , With teals, th„. successful ; but let them once take
rage'titita rid Ke Me 1,',11,1.1 the n, th‘att their General would not go all
ion;,.. ficl.)l, obl..tOrciii %ill!. to th_ ne would give up the case the
ri',.st daf, [414, dy Di vitirkri ' ground, and cast him off.' The
had t' nol6 lanth "s ' "to by 8, ,•
.0, ie j A, . 0f,,, to t, }mg, that his support would
toil an, tie •t, ~ tabli , . rie Bill wt • h .
,0 ot,
_tat ,IS 11,1(4,,, Ito" 4 . which he considered the
the
oder/ ~it,titill 4rAlt,iv 6 - curity for life and property in
!isch,ll;l;(l,vidi'terl, I,°4P;,rll,,yi.:l4'et,t;ltti},tl,,t°tlll:o2,7,..il the Bill, The preamble of
Iby 0° ettp _l'44: 4R,i, C
lotiq of ,ror..eerous con-pit acy was pre-
hie
.400
~., 4,8t..t ey
.._.1.11t vt, te Ireland, against the rights of
t I Iry 0,,f. )a,er ry , "'4l h_ttt t._, was very much at a hiss to un-
)3 7 1 lb,
ii, iii.,,,.,,0:.
to., Iv h illr Vlll4:Clei of properly this dangerous
before.l, I' 4,•,, 7-ereo.." the ' except it were that of tithes -a
Cool'.
.obl.l tee le itea, e;e. Present
be peaelio teat, "nigi_ Qin_ h.
preamble proceedings of Ministers
at
oeir
hest
tr,. s gill:
Of ill
, he, n•xt set forth the
rr.i.toie t i, Peeltill.to
skim
to Ill,dil: tumultuous assemblies of
, 0! Pf fated ,_lO le a'cri a Pune,d per-ono, calculated t
fa so
ebont hi._,th L'u..ol 41 n,,_ .1 intimidation." New •t to
ern g
..rae 0 -ti!ti. to 'esi4tan,t.7; the slightest evidence hdi a-
"
ntei ea.
.0. °tie, thti o",'' B,e'ote this allegation ,f •' the a been
[
,f
etosst ott
.11 ai4ll sod el h.:, On the contrary,
Iter.a.)g
ort: 11.1.11,11p4. 4,411 y Proved the
en in three. or ot r of the n,idtand
soot ,
to jPste 4' 1, ,„ , I existence ids species of Ag
;me of lity t h„,,,Q4k "oetiln.Y unread ground brou ht I ra.
orrs'lit 'a es 4,, Of i fled in a series of letters g °rward for
.!-1) ,e,tli, is of L.', cobs 1-Lo. Secretary for Ireland, who had
iat
cojotlit, ;to,;'",)ii.ti,e3h.,..,eriidenucneniedned, to favourw the House with the
ter. te
~,,,,,
cr.,
„,,,,,,,, .
b,..),,, s. What were the reasons fur
i.e,
_firc
,let, %ll! tt tit encealmen, ? There could be but
POP $ 111% t'setY, if e Virtier were notof eg •
I .0, 4 et, th.. 04„,. , suererit weight
r Iry el t tot, ,Of "tlk h -ca, to have produced any effect on
f. Oi.:epat ekfteli i'llictl,,,4tt?l,e pdointo
.t_his point he believed that the
that 'tt 'tnigt 14 for Hon. Secretary for • i
.c.. ties
„, , Id
,hide min_ the concealment,
I 0
or ce liter .- Or I. u.....tc, writer,, on the score of the
la
4/
it t 4,1 e,?.,,„,
.11, Lil Beers.) Hon. Members on the
his "' /0; 0 'N. ', 4111, "OUse cheered
;pis tie, esti 1. e th.. ered very vehemently, b
spy°
so k. ,ens ht thf. ow ~,, t'r cheers when lie made htsy'nexutt
.br 'tau 1: ton •", it that ,, ,
roe
_,ditte. li 41. , a ~_ twe.
_. the non. Secretary had
c 'reader. 11 iiiittai, 11.1,41: *„8 i't"ion for the whole of his cor
sir ,
torte t,
of n, ti,,,,itet,,i4,. that when one of then, happerrwei;
Oat ett bed hie
toe"t Plirtt dtl'lrespon 'll
they 01 ,1, to 4.0 f t".(itcl I Person.-why was
was .t that
1 rinel Pr. si," ei tie, I'vour, dorl HP ? How ;
,d. ir . 4, ta 'Nit Poe ll•iuse with the name of
to_ sib r.
u; N. el ek b , }en that correspondent hap.
ok eve", ' Rcj 'Nt.t'atti '4, w 1
ti0,,,00 , 44,4,7't 04`‘t Ilii",lCee'letv ?
•cks j, me a 'all t', ~,tki iv , „,,Y Were private letters
;iint ape wit
.1.
w,0.110),,411, 1: doe Riad to hear the admission that
,1,,,,0,i. ifiro tofili?bil.tp, it_ltiqi 14341.e:1%1'7n5, but mere private come
rat yet.sr
.i, lit,..°)tird. oeitt eik,ltt,
~.s.-ei„.
bt,„ producing letters marked
,) 044: 14,41ii1,04.14N„i1ie1,Wh0 ,leen resorted to by the Noble
'e rre ti . lit) ). trcpeet Had
tiled to tie-seeakir under
prr Y b.. N4l, wlsi n• Secretar N.g
Ar ip Ctiy rd ee stated theY(
facts on his own
fe"iseeel. tibi' iluOti Y't'l4 l'itis
for 4, ei,. ity , nt
nay ntiit.... maine
___ .
of arts' , 1 i'z,,,,,j lie ki tit! eel), e,,,,i '_"Pocodbility might cer-
e weiciova
ti, eiiii , to
th 1 4,y V4rling inn' though he could not
The on'y_ real re-
eV(' t h. Li )"I tl R(4, . "rifil,-n ,lr•
LPP riper btr,:tht e'r tee' 'ld ieah.e in, Was that .
ut.,
no to te,,,,t1:440, tt:',. tt,e4'.'ty ~
ul''',, !lib, n thsewilluiciihisut.."
, ~,d, ill b• tiv, I had ',loot . th.it or Pt
, refU 1, d 1.1 „,,i , ot . oot • He . en re-poneibility"
. ref
oeta,, eel, 0,, eatekiriat tone. rely i +lc .d ti
I at ful h tint! trUitlPt‘'Ple • • et" in the 11 ' at
.ket'"ta id, aiite ind be to tb* it was House of the
trine in keeping
resola, the
ri that ~, 11
to •" deotr
Ob. -‘44t rleil throughu of the people
:bob 1-0
Of' v Ito, Witt
Wet° Qt Oat val i such dim-
No, le that.11t,...., mi the List co
' , iluuse.were

I .

stitution

the abuses of every beastly borough were protected with
such fostering care six months ago.—(oh, oh.) He did
not care for the " Oh, oh," of the Hon. Members ; he
was not to be gagged by them, as they were shout to pg
his unfortunate' country. He had also received letters
from Ireland, and be would read one to the House, which
was not anonymous. This letter, which bore date the
last week, " strongly urged the Irish Members to fight
hard, and not allow so atrocious a measure, for which, it
added, there was not the slightest necessity. Many English
Members had acted a glorious part in opposing it. There
was to be a large county meeting in a day or two to petition
against it. As to the Conservative., thegeneral opinion was,
that they would vote for tying logs to the legs of every
Irishman, if a Bill to that effect were brought before Par-
liament." This was the effect of the letter, and now he
would inform the House whose opinions these were ; the
writer was Sir Richard Musgrave—(Hear, hear)—one of
the late Members of that House, and than whom not a
worthier or more excellent gentleman could be mentioned.
Was not the evidence of such a man much more important
and worthy of attention than that of the twenty-six sti-
pendiary Magistrates, whose appointments had been made
by his Majesty's present weak Ministry ? that Ministry,
who set up for such impartiality as to be indifferent to
either side; whose banner motto was—
" Tros Tyriusve nullo discrimine habetur."
The Ministry has also another important argument for
their proceedings, which was founded upon nothing more
or less than a ballad ! If they were in want of arguments,
he could produce one in the shape of a bro -der sheet of
paper than their ballad, and which contained much more
important matter, and which was signed, moreover, by ne
unimportant characters—at the head of the list appearing
the name of E. C. Stanley, a name followed by others no
less distinguished. The Hon. Member then produced a
number of large sheets of paper, which he said was the
proclamation of Ministers, authoriing the enforcement of
processes for a large amount of tithes in different parishes,
the value of many of which processes was but a farthing.
The Hon. Gentleman then related a case where, at
the suit of a Reverend Mr. Palmer, a poor man was
obliged to come a very long journey to show cause why
he should not pay tithe due to that Rev. G-atle-
man, amoureing to no legs a sum thin one penny.
The case to which he alluded was that of Mr. Palmer,
though he did not say that this was a fir temple of all
the clergy. It was, perhaps, worse than the average.
Its truth could not he doubteit, for he had documents in
his hand, written by Mr. Palmer himself, to prove it. He
had to complain, too, that the law officers carried the law
into execution in a manner most unfavourable to the
people. The declaration of the Right Hon. S-cretary
was well known and remembered in Ireland. It wag—
that he would never consent to turn one shilling of Church
property Irons ecclesiastical purposes. Was it calculated
to restore peace to that country, that her destinies so ould
he suffered to remain in the heeds of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who had made that declaration ? The Irish could
not forget that, eighteen months ago, the Right Hon.
Gentleman had proposed an Arms Bill for -Ireland, which
exposed every man to be transported who had a musket in
his possession, not branded and registered by the officers
of the Government. The Irish could nor forget that the
Right Hon. Gentleman was the fist person to suggest
changing the venue. The propositions of the Right Hon.
Gentleman were rejected by the Parliament befote it was
reformed, and were they to he carried by acclamation in
tie fist Reformed Parliament?—(Hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman talked of teaching Ireland a lesson ;
he was afraid that it might be in characters of blood.—
(Oh, oh!) Gould the Right Hon. Gentleman teach a
les on to 8,000,000 of people? Let him first learn the
discreet lesson to do no wrong. Let him also learn that
the law derives all its force from the acquiescence of the
people. Let them remove the causes of the grievances,
and make the laws so that the people could admire them
for their justice, and then they would willingly obey
them.—(Hear, bear.) The Irish poet was a prophet as
web as a poet. Mr. Moore said, most justly--
" As long as Popish spade and scythe
Shall dig and cut the Sassanagh's tithe,
And Popish purses pay the tolls
On Heaven's road for Sassanagh souls--
.••. • 5 •
So long the merry reign shall be
Of Captain Rock and his family."
He entreated ttie H -use not to pass the Bill, which did
but crown whole ages of misrule with a concentration of
all the virus of all the abom noble principles of Tnryisin.
The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) had led the
House astray by the pathetic story be had told of an
event which happened nearly twenty years ago, and if
the House had not subsequently been disabused, it would
retain the impression that the event narra ed was of recent
occurrence, and was a picture of the present state of Ire-
land.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentl man had
also talked of the oppression of the landlords in Leland.
He did not defend the landlords, for there was much
misery in Ireland. Would the House believe that the
people of that country, the most productive of the best of
fond, abounding in cattle, pigs, anti corn—would the
House believe, that three millions out of the eight mil-
Him of inhabitants never tasted animal food except on
Christmas-day and Easter Sunday? The Right Ho-
nourable Baronet wished them, however, to consider the
tithes as having no part in causing all the misery of Ire
land. The Right Hon. Baronet wished to ptee-rve t the
clergy the tithes of Ireland. The Right Hon. Baronet
was sensible of many of the evils of Ireland—but what
bad he ever done to remedy them? For six years he had
held the Government of that country ; he had supported
with all his power that system of ascendancy which had
been the curse of Ireland—he had supported the claims of
the gentlemen egsinst the many, and had not taken any
one step to remedy the evils of which he the other night
so pathetically complained. The Right Hon Baronet had
studiously prepared that oration, and certainly he had made
a great impression on the House ; hut while the affecting
picture drawn by the Right Hon. Bironet had influenced
the House, he himself had not been affected by it. He
had turned immediately to some trifling criticism about
the armorial bearings of the Gentlemen who introduced
the amendment. He implored the House not to pa-s this
Bill, and not to leave the destinies of the nation in the
hands of an individual who had admitted himself to be the
most unpopular man in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. JOHN BROWNE knew that all classes in Ireland
were anxious to have this Bill.—(No, no ! from the Op-
position, and Hear, bear ! from the Ministerial side.)
He knew that it required much moral and physical
strength to make an avowal of the kind ; for there was
in Ireland a party which had extended itself into
that House, and which endeavoured to make every
man odious to the people who had the courage to op-
pose it.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was persuaded—cen-
scientiously persuaded--that the Bill was nicessarv, and he
formed that opinion after five months' residence in Ire-
land. It was natural for the Hon. and Learned Alem-
her for Dublin to strive to excite popular clamour against
this measure. It was equally natural, however, that the
people of Ireland should desire tee return of tranquillity.
The greatest sufferers in Ireland were the industrious pea.
sentry. who were cruelly punished for their loyalty to
their King and obedience to the laws. He had before de-
scribed the system of intimidation which existed in the
county of Mayo, which was encouraged by the Political
Unions. The individual who most , promoted it was a
man driven from his caste, and forced to associate with the
lowest and most degraded people—who had b-en more
than once tried for arson, and almost convicted of per-
jury; and this was the man who on a former occasion
had been ca!led the patriot of Mayo. The last place he
saw or heard that gentleman, lie was in the chair at a
meeting of the Volunteers of Ireland, and that single cir-
cumstance might, he thoueht, give the House a good
eitiou of the Political Unions and Volunteers of Ire-
-4.—( Hear.)
'v. W. ROCHE could not consent to pass a law
would inflict a most deadly wound on the Con-

Sir J. KEY said, that the treat argument against the
Bill was, that it took away all liberty from Ireland ; but he
would in mrn, ask, did there exist such a thing as consti-
tutional lii,rty in that country—(Hear, hear)—or any
iib.-rty but that of violating the law, and murdering e
pc .cealde inhabitants ? It was necessary that the Bill
should precede, not foilow remedial measures; for until
outrke was put down, remedial measures would prove
abortive. Arbitrary, despotic, and unconstitutional as the
B II was, he should, nevertheless, under the circumstances,
support it, as tending to lay a secure foundation for future
improvement ; but he would nut pledge Ititnself to vote for
every clause it contained.
Mr. O'FERHALL rose principa'ly to complain of the
extraordinary and offlasive language used by the Hon.
Member for Mayo (Mr. J. Browne). That gentleman
had characterised the opponents of the Bill, who had tfonte
pledged to a certain measure, a+ persons without Inde-
pendence, and a+ men who bad raised them-elves to con-
sideration on the shaulders of the mob. Now he (Mr.
O'Fetrab) claimed for every gentleman who had opposed
the Bill just as mud] spirit and independence as belonged
to any who sup,:sorted it. The Hon. Member hail the in.
delicacy to drag into the discussion before the House the
name of a gentleman who tt as actually under prosecution
by the Attorney-General.--(Cheers.) Had any of the Hon.
Member's friends ever been in a similar si,urtion, how
would he hive felt at hearing his name dragged into a de-
bate? He hoped the Hun. Gentleman would withdraw his
expressions. As to the Bill, the course be should pursue
would please neither party. 'When ou the Committee of ,

last year, which was appointed to inquire into the cause of
disturbances in the Queen's County, he had agreed with
persons of the most opposite political principles in recom-
mending that the hands of Government should be
strengthened ; and the singularity of so extraordinary an
agreement of opinion ought to have induced the Heim Se-
cretary for Ireland to try those powers rather than resort
to such a Billie the present. It was most important to
consider whether the Bill was not stronger than was tie-
cetisary, and whether it might not ultimately tend to the
perpetration of disturbance.—(Hear, hear.) Several
Acts had been lately passed to strengthen the hands of
landlords, and these bore very heavily on the poor. In the
Queen's County, and in another also, he knew that the
clearances of estates had been the cause of the disturbances.
There was no immediate or necessary connexion, as had
been asserted, between political agitation and disturbance;
hut certainly if, at a public meeting, a clergyman or a
landlord should be described as an extortioner, it would
create an unfavourable reeling in the district towards him.
Mr. J. BROWNE said that the Hon Member for Mid-
dlesex had declared that no one of station, rank, or cha-
racter bore testimony to the necessity of the B'll. This
assertion he had attempted to negative by referring to the
individuals on his side of the House who had asserted its
necessity, and he would repeat, that a Member pledged to
any particular measure, was not independent.—(Hear.)
For himself, he was not rich, but lie hoped he was as in-
dependent, as any Member in the Heim. Upon the sub_
ject before the House he claimed perfect freedom ofspeech.
but the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. 0 Ferrell) was the last per-
son to whom he would apply an offensive expression.
Mr. NORTON supported the Bill.
Lord ALTHORP and Mr. COBBETT rose at the same
moment, but repeated cries of 16 Althorn," and " With-
draw," induced Mr. Cohliett to resume his seat.
Lord ALTfIORP said the House was not discussing
whether the Bill should be read a second time, but the
whole debate turned on the order of the day directing
that the Bill be read a second time, and thus no progress
was made. The Hon. Member for Middlesex denied
that the evidence adduced was sufficient to warrant the
passing of the Bill: but this objection should have been
made on a previous occasion, as the House, by its vete
upon the first reading, had decided that the evidence was
quite sufficient to justify the measure. The Hon. Gentle-
men had indulged in a great variety of general observa-
tions upon Ireland, but it was to be regretted that he had
not applied himself mere closely to the question before the
House. He had, indeed, declared that lie had no confi-
ri nee in Ministers, and if he had not, he was justified in
refusing such powers to them. One cause assigned by
Ism for that want of confidence was, th it the remedial
measures which had been promised in last session were
not passed. He had referred particularly to the declara-
tion's made by him (Lord Altherp) and the Hon. Serie-
tary for Ireland—he accused them of having broken
their pledgee, and of having promised, an ." extine-
ion of tithes," which promise was never redeemed.
Now, on the contrary, he (Lord Althnrp) would as•
ssrt, that as soon as the measure of last session should
have come into full operation, tithes would be ex-
tinguished in fact, and the name alone would remain.—
(Hear.) They woul.l not, indeed, he put into the
pockets of the landlords—(Cheers)—who had bought
their land subject to tithes, and ought to hold it on the
same condition ; but the great grievance of Ireland, and
one telt in this country too—the pressure of tithes on
cultivation, and their hostility to improvement—would be
removed. The Bill had been delayed much longer than
he wished, or expected, but when the measure should have
come once into operation, the tenant—the occupier—
would pay no tithes. He did not, indeed, know whether
Hon. Gentlemen had the same understanding when
Ministers made the declaration, but the report was euffi-
cieet to show that the Bill could not be very different
from that ultimately introduced. The Hon. Member had,
rreireovi r, said that the Ministers' Bill had been disho-
noured—referring, as he declared, to the non-introdurrion
of the promised Grand Jury Bill. Now, there was no
promise about a Grand Jury measure ; the Bill was to
regulate Petty Juries.—(A laugh.) On this subject he
(Leal Althorn) hid already frank'y admitted that his
pledge had not been redeemed, hut the fault was neither
his nor the Government's—it was solely the re-ult of cir-
cumstances. It was now, he confessed, an unredeemed
pledge, and he regretted it, hut it would be redeemed in
the pr sent session.—( Cheers.) He hid said to the lion.
Member for Dublin, that if he *should not bring the Bid
into this House Minis era would introduce it into the
Upper; but they would make no obj-c-ions to his bring-
ing it into this Hiuse and the Hon. ill-mher was accord-
ingly about to do so. The Hon. Member for Mid-
dlesex had quoted 8 r Henry Parnell to prove that
there w re no disturbances in the Queen's County.
That certainly was a most extraordinary statement, be-
cau-e his Hun. Friend (Sir H. Parnell) was the man who
drew up the report of the Committee of last session.—
(Cheers.) The Him. Member for Kildare had also e-
mai ked the singular unanimity of opinion which declared
that extraordinary powers must be granted to Govetn•
ment. It was, therefore, impossible that Sir H. Parnell
could have mule such a statement. The Hon. Member
had also referred to the evidence of a Mr. Browne to prove
that Kilkenny County was tranquil up to July I.st, and
that the disturbances had been caused by the measures of
last session. But it was quite impossible that Mr. Browne
could have been spoken of last July—in fact, his evidence
referred t 1830 —( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had
also quoted letters from Sir P. Bellew and Lord Gormans.
town ; but, on the other hand, the Loid Lieuten!nts of
Carlow and Wexford had borne testimony to the necessity
of the Bill, and in particular, the Lord Lieuten,nt of the
King's County, tit whom the Hon. Member had been im-
prudent enough to refer, had spoken conclusively on that
point.—(Cheers.) With a simplicity which carried con-
viction to every gentleman who heard him, he proved
that. the county was not in the state described by the
Hon. Member. His Hon. Friend the Member for Kil-
dare (Mr. Moore O'Ferrall) had said,„that he agreed with
the Committee on this subject, which sat last session, that
since strong measures were necessary to restore tranquillity
to Ireland, he was quite sure that every gentleman who
was acquainted with the talents and patriotic sentiments
of his Hon. Friend, would readily believe that there was
no man who was less likely to concur in arbitrary measures,
without he fel convinced that the strongest necessity
existed.—(Hear.) His Hon. Friend had, indeed, recom-
mended the adoption of remedial measures. 'Why, did
they (the Ministers) ever say that remedial measures were
not necessary? Had they not already given some ear-
nest of their determination to introduce remedial measures?
—( Hear.) Gentlemen had said, '6 You have brought
forward the coercive measure in the House of Lords,
why did you not also bring the In h Church Reform
Bill into that House in the first instance ?" There was
one simple answer to be given to this, which was, that
the Irish Church Reform Bill was a money Bill, and
therefore must, in the first instance, pass the House of
Commons —( Hear.) But his Majesty's Government took
the very first opportunity of introducing their remedial
measures into that House, to show that they were really in
earnest on that point. He had already opened the subject
of Irish Church Reform, and his Hun. Friend that of
Grand Juries. If the House thought that they intended
to stand still, wed not remedy the evils of Ireland, then,
indeed, Hon. Members would be perfectly justified in
opeosing any coercive tne.isur.s, and they would have no
right whatever to ask the confidence of the House. His
Hon. Friend had said the necessity for coercive measures
should be so striking as to produce at, almost unanimous
assent, and instanced the long debate which had occurred
on the Bill as a proof of a want of sufficient unanimity.
But though lie admitted that the debate was very long,
yet tl ere was not, in his opinion, the slightest necessity
for so long a discussion—(Heat )—and, as to unanimity,
there were few instances, on any great question, of
such a large and overwhelming majority.— (Hear, bear.)
His Honourable Friend then said, that Ministers
had failed to prove any connection between political
agitation and the predial tor agricultural outrages. With
regard to that puiut, no man believed, or would admit
more fully than himself that he believed, that the political
agitators, so far from intentionally stimulating these crimes
held them in the ettnest abhorrence—(Hear, hear, from
the Irish Members)—but the effect of pelitical agitation
wassuch as eecesearily to produce irritation and discen-
tent ; and this irritatiun and discontent operating upon a
population in a state of great misery and distress, neces-
sarily led to the commission of crime and outrage.--
(Hear, hear.) And certainly, though they might nct wish
to do so, the consequence of their conduct wait the encou-
ragement of criminal outrages. It was said, that when
this B 11 was passed into a law, there would be the same
difficulty in obtaining evidence. This, however, he denied;
it would have the effect of terrifying the persons engaged
in carrying on this system of intimidation, and it would
operate directly and practically, through the provisions, of
the Insurrection Art, to prevent midnight meetings and
outrag. s. He then referred to the speech of the Noble
No, d, the Member or King's County (Lord Osmantown),
as a very satisfactory answer to the observations of the Hon.
Member fur Middlesex. Re and his alight [lon. Friend
had been a+ tacked for not quoting the names of tree p r-
sons writing the leters which had been read to the House
Toe reason fur their not doing so was obvious. They
would instantly be marked as ohnoxioue persons by those
violators of the law against whom they complained, and
would net, unlikely, fall victims to their
revenge.—(Hear.)
Mr. JAAJES GRATTAN did not deny that drstur•
bailee existed in Ireland to au extent sufficient to warning

the grant of some additional powers to the Executive. He
would have gone as far, in compliance with the recom-
mendation of the Committee of last seggien, as to consent
to domiciliary powers, or even to the powers under the
Insurrection Act; but to a weastne so extravagant and so
despotic as this he never could consent. It was said that
the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was a dictator.
He might be so, but he was no dictator of his; he held
not his seat under the authority of that Hon. and Learned
Gentleman. But he would say, if he was a dictator, why
do you, in complaining of this circumstance, try to pull
him down only for the purpose of setting up another in
his place.—(Hear.) He objected to the existence of a
dictatorship of any kind, but most particularly should he
object to a legalised dictatorship in the shape of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland.—(Hear.) He would just say one
word for the unfortunate Queen's County, of which so
much had been said. He was quite sure that the Govern-
ment could always get Juries in that county ; the
farmers and gentlemen did not flinch from attending.
—(Hear, hear.) He said this from personal know-
ledge. It was rather a curious thing, that whilst the
Honourable Member for Wexford was relating some
most pathetic details to the House, the criminals were
being tried—justice was taking its course, unimpeded and
unintimidated—and several of the offenders have been con.
victed and executed.—(Hear, hear.) He really thought
that the impression respecting the intimidation of Jurors
and witnesses seas much exaggerated. The county in
which he resided (Wicklow) was in a most peaceable con-
dition. The assizes there only occupied the Judge one
day. He was not an agitator—he had never agitated but
once, and that was in favour of the Reform Bill, for the
purpose of placing these gentlemen where they were—
(" No, no," from the Treasury Bench)—end he should be
glad to see them continue there—but not if they listened
to the advice the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland gave
them respecting this Bill—nor unless the system of tithes
was extinguished in Ireland. It had been said in justi-
fication of this measure, that hie father had supported the
Insurrection Act; but the Insurrection Act was not at all
to be compared to this Bill. Upon his honour he believed
that one tithe of this Bill was sufficient to quiet every
county in Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Mr. BARRON rose to take that opportunity of com-
plaining of an attack upon him in the Standard news-
paper of Wednesday last. Words were there put into
his mouth which he never used, and sentiments attributed
to him which he abhorred. This was the language at-
trieuted to him The Protestant population in Ire-
land are 500,000, yet these enjoyed an income of
8,000,0001. or 9,000,600/. He would ask any Hon.
Member whether this was a just distribution of pro-
perty ?" And the editor of the Standard then proceeded
to comment upon this as though he advocated the division
of the property of the Irish Protestants amongst the C
tholics of Ireland. He must do himself and the public
the justice to say, that he bad never used the obnoxious
expressions attributed to him. What he said was this—
that the Church property in Ireland amounted to eight
or nine millions per annum, and what he asked was simply
this—whether such an enormous property was necessary
for the support of a Church establishment for only
500,000 Prorestats. He abhorred the sentiment which
had been attributed to him. He might have the printer
of the Standard called to the bar of the House, but it
was nut his wish to act harshly towards the Press, but
merely to set himself right with the public.
Mr. FI tZSIMON (King's County)—ln reference to
the observation of his Noble Colleague, that the county
which lie represented had been disturbed only during the
last two years, he would remark, that this disturbance
arose out of the efforts of the inhabitants to free theme
selves from the political thraldom under which they had
la oured fur 30 years past. He regularly attended, whilst
in Ireland, the assize+ and sessions, and he never saw jus-
tice fail fir want of witnesses, nor could he tax his me-
mory with one single instance in which a witness was af-
terward:, persecuted for giving evidence.—(Hear.)
Col. PERCEVAL said that the county which he re-
presented was in a comparative state of tranquillity; but
circumstances had recently occurred which convinced him
that the preiticel infection which had prostrated other
'counties lief ire it was rapidly spreading itself even there.
It was only last week that a house had been a tacked by
an armed party at night. He agreed that it was a mon-
strous measure—(Hear, hear)—but be was convinced that
any measure short of it would be insufficient.—(Hear,
h. ar ) lie was surprised that gentlemen could
deny the instance of intimidation tower •s jurors and
witnesses in the teeth of so many well-attested facts
Toe influence of those disturbers of the peace had .x-
-tended even over that House, and a Committee had beer)
toianle to elicit evidence from a gentleman, except by
engaging to suppress his testimony- When asked re-
specting the causes of the periodical agitation in Ireland,
he stated, that if his testimony were sent to Ireland,
wifi, his children, an,/ himself would lose their lives.
The Hon. Member fir Wexfird had nut long ago boasted
that the county of Wex'ord was in a state of tranquiliit).
It no longer remained so. At the moment when they
were then debating, the peasantry were seizing aims. H.
had hail the good fortune—if it were goad fortune—te
hear the Hon. M-tuber for Middlesex pass an eulogium
on the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, who, ac.
c rrding to the 1,1 in. Member, was the iitol of eight mil
lions of the Iri-h people For his own part he would
deny it, for he (Colonel Percival) was one of the eight
millions, and the Hon. and Learned Member was nut his
idol. He was on the tumble, in his opinion, and the
(Colonel Perceval) would be willing to give him a push.
In consequence of what had been stated the other day, lie
had thought it his duty to cad upon his Rev. Friend, who
had been designated reproachfully as the Vicar of Bray,
and be had found that the statement respecting a lette,
written by a Protestant was without foundation. There
was a Protestant in the town of Bray of a had character;
and immediately the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ex
claimed, here ie a Protestant agitator, an Orengettian
He was not an Orangeman, and he was not the author
of the leiter-1,4001. or 1,5001. had been subscribed to
find out who was the author of the letter, and he had not
been Sound out yet. He would not repeat the indecent
speech which the Hon. and Learned Member had put in
the mouth of his Rev. Friend; but be had evidence that
it was attributed to him without foundation. He had
great pleasure in tendering his support to the Government
in carrying the present measure.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER moved an adjournment.
Lord ALTHORP observed, that in an experience of
twenty-nine years, he had known no instance of an ad-
journrni nt of a debate upon the order of the day.
The House always either divided or allowed the
order of the day to he read, and then adjourned it to ano-
ther day ; but adjourning the debate on the order of the
day was absurd.
Mr. WARBURTON said that the Hon. Member for
Middlesex being absent, had sent a message to hint.—
(Hear, hear, bear.) The House would nut blame his
Hon. Friend for being absent, as it was in consequence of
the illness of a member of his family. Anticipating the
objection which had been made to an adjournment upon
the order of the day, be desired him to state, that it
would he equally agreeable to him if the amendment were
moved on the second reading.—(Bear, hear, and great
laughter.) That was the Hon. Member's wish ;he
thought that in doing so his Hon. Friend was complying
with the wishes of the House ; and he could not discover
the cause of the merriment of Hon. Members.—(Reuewed
laughter.)

Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT did not know any right which
any Hon. Member had to bring a message from an absent
Member.—(Hear, hear.) lie (Sir J. Sehriglit) could not
speak eloquently, but he would s; eak frankly.—(Hear.)
The Hon. Member took up as much time as any Member
of the House when present, and laid down the law in a
manner which he had never seen done by any one.—
(Hear, hear.) There was a time when ht: deserved praise,
because he confined himself to that which he well under-
stood.—(Hear, hear). Now there was not one subject
that was brought before the House—nothing relating to
our domestic or foreign policy—no subject, however com-
pFcated, which that Has. Member did not speak of in the
most enlightened manner.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. COBBETT rose to order.
The SPEAKER said the House would, perhaps,
permit him to make smile observations. There was cer-
tainly no intention of dictating to the House. Every one
knew that a motion once made could not be with-
drawn without the consent of the House ; and it
could not very well be done without the consent of the
Member himself. The Hon. Member for Bridport had
been authoriz, dto give that assent. With respect to the
question of dividing upon the order of the day, the
House would see how inconsistent it would be to tojourn
to Monday upon the question--whether the order of the
day for the continuance of the adjourned' debate should
b, read and proceeded upon on Friday.—(Hear, hear.)
The proper course was to have the order of the nay read
and adjourn it then to Monday.
Mr. O'CONNELL concurred, and expressed a wish
to know wt,ether the debate was to be closed on Monday ?
Lord ALTHORP inquired whether the Hon. and
Learned Member fur Dublin intended that the debate
should close on Mond iy ?
Mr. O'CONNELL said, it would he great presumption
in so bumble an individual as he to pretend to say when
the debate would be closed ; but he had no difficulty in
concurring in the opinion of the Noble Lord that it would
close on Monday.
Lord ALTHORP under these circumstaaccv did not