The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-15 00:00:00

TIIE SUN,

the present sum. A. Municipal government, like ore of
the Sc!oteh hetehs, would answer all the purposes,
Mr. HA. tVES sail the suljee'. was ceder the censi-
&ration of his Noble Friend et the head of the
office. He could now state that while in 1849 12 ships
of an average of 9,200 tons touched at the ielende, in
1850 no fewer than 23 touched there, with an average
tonnage cl 13,622 tons.
The vote was agreed to.
15 5001. for Hong-
Mr. SCOTT said, looking at Hong-Kong in any point
of view, no colony belonging to this country cost so
mach. The population was 33,000, of which filte:m-
sixteenths were Chinese, and about 500 Europeans and
Americans; and for the government of these 29,0001
were paid by England. There were only 20 acres of
land under cultivation in the whole colony. The trade
had fallen off from 294 ships in 1849 to 159 ships in
1850; while the number of persons qualified to serve as
common and special jurors hid fallen off v, ry consider-
ably likewise. The governor and hie aide-de-camp,
however, received 6 0001. a year; the col inial secretary
and treasurer received nearly the same; and the sur-
veyor. for surveying these 20 acres of tillage, received
1,2001. a year. The harbour• master receivel 1,1161. a
year, while his duties were performed by a Lascar at
300/. per annum. The place was so unhealthy that
people would not live there; but nevertheless the salaries
of official persons amounted to 12,0001. a year. The
only reduction of expense was that of public works of
utility, the roads being, iii fact, allowed to fall into de-
cay, while the cost of government remained at the same
figure. He proposed, therefore to reduce the vote by
5,0001.
Mr. HAWKS said there seemed little encouragement
to the Government to pursuit. a course of economy. The
paper hail on the table showed a reduction o 4 500/. on
the estimates of last year. The coat of salaries alone
In 1845 6 was 35 8001, while the cost in 1849 50 was
only 29 1001., being a reduction of 6.6001 in that period
Wich respect to public works, the Hon. Geed, min
would find by the paper before the House, that, though
there had been a great reduction, there bad been no
neglect The colony was. no d .übt, an extravagant
one; but the reduction made in the cost of iis govern-
ment had been from 1849—when it was 49,0001—t0
1851, when it was 15,2001. There had been a great in-
crease of trade in the colony, and from 1848 to 1849 the
Population had increased by 8,000. He ti usted, there-
fore, the House would not agree to the amendment,
considering the great importance of that colony to the
country.
Mr. HUME was very much misinformed if the whole
object of the colony had not failed. It was expected to
concentrate the trade of Canton, but it had not done so.
The time was, therefore, come for the entire review of
the establishments of this country in China, especially
that of Hongkong.
Viscount PALMERSTON said that as a commercial
depot Hong-Kong had answered to a great extent. There
was a direct trade with many parts of China. But it
should not be considered as a commercial station merely
—it should also be considered in connexion with its po-
litical bearing on China. It had been pressed upon him
by the Commissioners at the settlement of the *d ors of
China, that some spot tree from Chinese caprice should
be secured to this country, and Chusan was mentioned;
but authorities in this c 'entry thought Hong. Kong pre-
ferable. It was in his opinion, however, necessary that
there should be some spot on the coast of China where
British merchants could be free from Chinese caprice,
and not placed at the mercy of whatever party hell the
government of Canton. Of late there had been a re-
action in Chinese policy against European intercourse,
and attempts had been mad, even to infringe ihe treaty,
which, it was hoped, would need no.hing more than re-
monstrance Bit if the Chinese threw difficulties and
obstructions in the way, it was of immense importance
to have a central authority for the prorection of British
trade and commerce. The Governor of Hong-Kong had
civil and criminal jurisdiction, and that formed a consi-
derable portion of his duties. Under these circumstances,
and seeing the importance of Hong-Kong in a political
as well as a commercial point of view, he did not think
the expense was greater than the considerations which
were pleaded for is maintenance.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said Dr. Bowring got only
8001. a year, while the Governor of Hong-Kong, Who
could not be for a moment compared to him in point of
experience and ability, got 6,0001. That was prepos-
terous. _ _

Viscount PALMERSTON said Dr. Bowring had per-
formed his duties with great ability and great success.
He should protest against the comparisons drawn be-
tween the salaries given to Secretaries of States at home
said those serving abroad. It should be considered that
those officers who were sent to a toreign station often
went to an unhealthy climate, were banished from home,
and were frequently under great expense. Many valu-
able lives had teen sacrificed on these stations, and Hun.
Gentlemen were often obliged to leave in consequence of
ill health. Those who understood the scale of official
salaries could bear testimony to the fact that those ap-
pointed for China were very reasonable.
Mr. CLAY said it was highly unjust to compare sala-
ries of offices at home with those abroad.
Mr. HUME thought that 3,000/, was ton much to
pay for receiving a duty of 22,000 L; and 1,2001. was
too high a salary for the surveyor-general of an island
20 miles in ex eut.
Mr. HAW ES said the salaries had been well consi-
&red, and then fixed at a rare which was thought rea-
s'inable. Considering the climate of the place it was
most ur,juet to niensure the salaries with those in
England.
Mr. SCOTT said they thought 39 0001. was too large
a sum for the government of adch a place.
Mr. MACGREGOR was confident the Noble Earl at
the head of the Colonial Department would carry out
the reductions which he had commenced. When be
thought of the confidence with w hich ships went out now
to Chinn, he a,seried that Hongkong should be by no
me-ms held in light estimation.
Captain SCOBELL said what they had to consider
was, whether the colony could be governed at a cheaper
rate. He thought the salary of the governor was most
extravagant.
Mr. HAWES said it was not as governor alone he had
that salary, but as general superintendent of our trade
in China.
After a few words from Mr. HUTCHINGS, the
Committee divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it

... 39
... 65

Kijority in favour of the original vote —26
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of 5,5001. was then proposed for the governor
and deputy-gook rnor of Labium.
Mr. HUME thought the vote was too large for its
object.
Mr. HAWES said Sir J. Brooke was governor, and
Mr. Scott deputy-governor; and that that vo'e had been
decreasing every )ear. Iu 1849 it wus 7,8001.; iu 1850,
6,7001., while in 1851 it was only 5,5001.
Atter some discussion, in which Mr. Urquhart, Mr.
Williams, Mr. flume. and Mr. Anstey, took part, the
vote was agreed to without a division.
A sum of 25,3311. was then proposed to do fray the
expenses of the Colonial Land Emigration Board and
offices.

Mr. SCOTT said that vote was about 12,0001. more
than it had been last year. But when it was considered
that about 280,000 emigrants last us every year, be did
not think the sum proposed was too great for the objects,
b-cause, out of that 280 000, about 120,000 were under
the Colonial Land and Emigration Board. The services
of these Emigration Commissioners were by no means
commensurate with the salaries paid to them, because in
proaortion as the expense went on the number of emi-
grants to their colonies decreased, while those that went
to other parts of the world had in proportion increased.
He attributed this state of things to the inactivity of
their Commissioners. He trusted that the Hon. Gen-
tleman would consider seriously whether the Board
might not be made more effici• nt for the carrying out cf
those objects for which it was formed.
Mr. HAWES said, that since the year 1847 emigra-
tion had increased considerably to their Australian co-
lonies. He must remind him that the emigration which
was going on absorbed considerably more than the funds
that were appropriated for the purpose by Parliament.
It should also be recollected that the colonists, who were,
of course, consulted on the matter, desired that only a
particular class of emigrants should be sent out, namely,
the able bodied men, and those that were enabled by
their knowledge of certain mechanical arts to confer per-
manent advautage upon the colonies. As Parliament
had not allowed funds enough to meet the whole ex-
panses of emigration, it was deemed necessary to raise
more funds by land sales in the colonies. With these,
however, the Commissioners had nothing whatever to
do. The Colonial office had considered this question
mist fully, and attar the utmost deliberation thy came
to the opinion that it was impossible the business of ensi-
graiion coulsl be carried on in a better, more economical,
or more soeces,ful manner than under the system adopted
by the present Emigration Board.
Mr. HUME thought that as the Hon. Member had
o
whom
against hae
pcuobnitireadctepwaurutraldenbte,
said he was ready to repeat that from
and that some explanation was required.
sgtiavteend, at hchatarghee wkansowns aide
whose tender would be accepted,
had bsen offered he
k
30 per cent, higher than the
theMmr.oSmCen(lThre heard that tenders
although rw
i e
the
others. thatgen tl,
tendernians
Mr. HUME thought that such a statement required
some answer. He wished, also, to know, as the number
of Commissioners had been increased, whether they were
all fully employed?
Mr. HAWES, in answer to the first remark, said, he
thought when the lion. Gentleman opposite said be
knew to whom the contract would be given, that be
merely meant to say that he supposed it would be given
to a certain person. Ho was sure the limi• Gen(lerresa
did not mean to impute to the Cotnn3issionera any Unfair
dealing in the matter. In selecting which tender to ac-
cept, the Commissioners had to consider not merely the
amount, but various other circumstances. With respect
to the duty of the Commissioners, he could assure the
Hon. Member for Montrose that no public officers were
more laboriously employed than the Commissioners
were.

Mr. GOULD thought that Southampton would be a
more Futtanie plate than Deptford for the embarkltion
of emizrants. The det6i at Deptford was a most in-
convenient one.

Th. vo'e was then agreed to.
60,0001. for the expense, &c., of ca2tured negroes.
Mr. HUME thought this vote ought not to be agreed
i
to until the Committee were utornied whether the
African squadron was still to be continued. He wished
also to hear some statement as to what had been done
with rerereeco to the al ve trade during the last year.
Viscount PALM ERS lON said the Committee would
recoil, et that in the discussion on the subject last year
assuranceswere given that rne4surea wouldbe taken to
add to the etlicii ecy of the force which had for some
time In en employed. In cons* quence of that greater
stringency had been exercised, both on the coast of
Aftiosi sud on the coast of Brazil, which, he was glad to

LONDON,

.gy, had been attended with very great success; indeed,
with a more rapid success than could have been ex-
peered. On the coast of Africa the slave trade might
be said to be for the moment aemost ext.eguished north
of the line. With the s xception of only two places,
Lagos and Porto Novo, near Whydah, the British
cruisers had spoilt the slave trade at other pieces;
so much so, that those who had hitherto traded in
slaves now dealt in ivory and other products of the
country. Persons connected with the natives stated
that the slave trade existed only in the minds of
those chiefs who got presents and profits from the
slave dealers, but that the bulk of the pe iple were ex-
ceedingly commercially inclined, and were anxious to
buy European commodities with any produce of the
country which Europeans would take. For a long time
they had never taken anything bat slaves; but now they
preferred ivory and other products of the country. En-
deavours were also making to extend the cultivation of
the cotton plant, and specimens had been sent to Man-
chester, which had been reported to be of a very valua-
ble kind, likely to fetch a high price in the Manchester
market. As far, therefore, as related to the coast north
of the line, the slave trarte had been almost put an end
to. In the Portuguese settlements the slave trade had
also very much diminished. The Government of Por-
tugal bad cordially, and be believed sincerely, co-operated
with the British officers. Some of the inferior officers
of the Portuguese settlements still yielded to the temp-
tations of the slave-dealers; but at Benhuela and Loan-
dos the sieve trade might be said to be paralysed. Many
of the slave-traders had suspended their business, and had
turned to traffic of a different kind. On the southern coast
the Imaum of Muscat, during the last year, had afforded
facilities for checking the trade, and the result had been
that in ono river in the south of the Inesuires dominions,
where a great trarte was carried on for the supply of
B azil, barracoons had been destroyed capable of holding
5 Out) slaves. On the coast of Africa. therefore, by the
greater vigilance of the cruisers, by means of those
treeti s made with the native chiets, and which he was
happy to say many of them had observe d with great
fidelity—by the progress made in Liberia—and by
the co-operation of the au,horities in the Portuguese
settlements—great progress had been made in checking
tee trade. He was happy also to add, that the most
cordial and perfect co-operation hal prevailed between
the British cruisers and those of France and America,
and that our commodore had expressed iu the strongest
terms the great obligations he owed to the active and
zealous supp It and ca operation be had received from
the French and American forces employed.—( Hear.)
The great place to which the slave trade of Africa hart
been directed was to the coast of Brazil, and statements
had been made before the Committee on this subject of
the enormous amount f slaves that were landed on that
coast. In the early part of last year the British cruisers
which had be-en for a long time detained in the River
Plate in consequence of our differences with the Go-
vernment of Bit. nos Ayres, were concentrated on the
coast of Brazil, where their operations began to be
much more ec,ive and off-etual. Communications had
taken place with the Government of Brazil, and the result,
as had been stated by his N 4sle Friend in the early part of
the session, was, that the Brazilian Government, in
Septembsr last, passed an additional law for the preven-
tion et the slave trade by declaring it to be piracy, and
bad at last exerted that vigilance, and put forth that
power, which, in his opinion, it was always in their
power to have done if they chose.—(Hear, hear.) The
effect had been the almost total extinction of the slave
trade in Brazil. The number of slaves imported into
Brazil in 1850 was not above half the number brought
to the country in former years. The greater number
was al Nays brought in the early part of the s ear, but
in the first quarter of the present year, up to the Ist of
April, very few slaves had been brought to Brazil. The
number had been stated at only a few hundreds, instead
of the thousands that used formerly to be imported.
The Government of Brazil had cooperated most sin-
cerely and most t ffectually in fulfilling the obligations
of the treaty between Brazil and England, in carrying
into effect the law. They, in this country, bad always
laboured under a great mistake in supposing that the
Brazilian nation, as a nation, would cling to the slave
trade. The fact was, that it was only a certain number
of Portuguese families, of great influence, that main-
tained the traffic ; and the opinion in favour of it
was a factitious opinion, and not the opinion of the
Brazilians themselves. Within the last two years
there had grown up in Brazil a powerful, active, and
intelligent anti-slave trade party, with newspapers
devoted to their cause, and enforcing their opinions in
the Parliament of Brazil. He believed he might say
that a large majority of the Brazilians were opposed to
the slave trade, and that the party in its favour was a
very small one, and consisted chiefly of foreigners. The
result had been, that the Brazilian Government had
employed several cruisers to co-operate with the British
cruisers in seizing slave-trading vessels. They had de-
stroyed the baracoons along the whole extent of their
coast and had brought to trial the person.; accused of
slave-trading. They had captured slaves who had been
landed and dispersed in plantations, and they had exer-
cised, in one or two cases, the powers given them by the
constitution, of banishing persons notoriously engaged
in the slave trade, who, from some technical difficulties,
could not be brought under the jurisdiction of the courts.
Having been informed that a great number of these
Portuguese tredsrs had left Brazil and had g.ne to Por-
tugal, he had written to our consuls at Oporto and
Lisbon on the subject, and had learned that no fewer
than 140 of these traders had gone to Portugal—had
there invested their gains, giving up the slave trade in
despair —(Hear, hear.) He had also been told by a
naval °Meer who arrived from Brezil the other day, that
one person engaged in the slave trade had lost, from
first to list, in that trade, 65 vessels by capture, valued
at 2,500/ each; so that the Committee might judge the
loss inflicted by our squadron, when this one trader had
lost in ctea.equence of it vessels of the value of 200 000/.
—(Hear, hear.) Another proof that the Brazilians had
given up the practice of slavery was to be found in the
fart of a capital of 1,200,0001., which had been engaged
in the slave-trade operations, having been invested in a
hank in Lisbon. A most fortuea.e change.—(Hear.)
In a debate recently in the Brsz Ilan Parliament, he
found the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senhor Olinda,
expressing in the strongest terms his censure of the
slave trade, condemning it, and declaring it had been so
condemned by the voice of all nations. Gliers, tot',
dwelt upon the pernicious and demoralising effects which
the slave trade had produced in their own countries.--
(Hear, hear.) And, indeed, they had received a pretty
good lesson on the subjeet in the terrible pestilence
which had been imported from Africa, and that had
carried away so many persons of influence as well as
such numbers of the populace. In tact the results
were far greater than her Majesty's Government could
have hoped to have found them It was hoped they
would be permanent, provided there was the same pro-
visions and watchfulness kept up for a time. In Africa
the natives were finding the advantage of being engaged
in a legitimate trade ; they found it more profitable
than a slave trade, whilst in Brazil it was begun to be
seen that slave labour was more costly, more expensive,
and more dangerous than free labour. The Government
discovered this, in the explosion of a powder magazine,
which had been worked by slaves—they found it, too,
in their arsenals and other places where slaves were
employed, and where a considerable cost was occasioned
by having persons to oversee slave., and to use the whip
in keeping them to their work. The change of opinion
in Brazil was most encouraging and gratifying, and he
believed he might congratulate the House upon the suc-
cess of their long-contiaued efforts to put down the slave
;rade.

Sir J. PAKINGTON heard with satisfaction tha
statement of the Noble Lord; but ho doubted that they
would succeed in suppressing the slave trade, whe❑ they
encouraged it by taking the pro,luce of slave labour.—
(Cheers.) He wished to know from the Noble Lord
when the documents referred to in the Queen's Speech
would be laid ou the table, and also whether there had
not been an increase of the slave trade in Cuba?

Lord PALNIERSTON replied—The papers were in
preparation, and would be laid on the table in a few
days. As to Cuba. they had the promi-e of the Spanish
Gov,Arnment to discountenance the import of slaves.
After a few words from Mr. DENISON, _

Mr. HUME considered that the change on which the 1
Noble Lord congratulated himself might have been at-
Wiled long since if the Noble Lord had withdrawn the
fleet, and induced the Brazilian and Spanish Govern-
ments
to fulfil their engagements—to act in the manner
in which they appeared to have been doing of late.
Mr. M. FORSTER considered the Noble Lord and
the Government entitled to great credit for having per-
severed in their policy, notwithstanding the opposition
that had been made to it by a considerable party in that
H arse.
Sir T. ACLAND also jnined in the congratulations
of the House upon the success of the policy of the Noble
Lord.
Sir E N BUXTON also congratulated the Noble
Lord on the success of his efforts in-the suppression of
the slave trad-. It was said this would hay been done
without the fleet on the coast of Africa. That was a
mistaken opinion. The change in Brazil was produced
by its having been seen last year that this was made a
Government question, and that the best exertions would
be made to put an end to this horrible traffic.—(l.lear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL would hardly have thought it
necessary to say a word on the present occasion, had it
not been nee 'scary to prevent the House from being led
away by what had tallen from the Hon. Member for
Montrose. The Hon. Member advised the House to
consent to withdraw the African squadron—which, if
done, the Hon. Member considered the slave trade would
now cease. He must beg the House to believe if this
advice were taken Oa; the result would not be as sup.
posed, but that we should again behold all the horrors
of the slave trade fully revived.—(Hear.) He was not
giving his own opinion only, but he was also giving that
of the gallant admiral who bad just returned from the
coast of Africa, and who said if we continued the Afri-
can squadron for a 1-w years more we should find that
we were able greatly to dinsish the expense of that squa-
dron, but, certai
tempt t o
continuein uc the
their
the sqthatuadron altogether.
it t
hße'O GLll(d)venront
mbeenstw in their eto re,idr reduce
altogether. He trusted that the Howe,
having hitherto
supported
Brazils
supportt o d, i sacs o
tnhtei n
pureogthree slavess
that
at
tr trade,
woulde
alma ly been
made afforded the greatestencouragement
for persevering in our rff,,rts.
ECH ELL was of opinion that, if the African
squadron
kept up in an efficient manner, we
shouldS G
n G.
l w.)a
not sn
succeedo
in convincing France we were in ear-
an efficient force were kept up he
nest ill our attempt to Suppress the slave trade. It was
se e slave
th ter at do et a
it to
annihilationi pee
owing to the power to take slave-vessels from under the
fwmoairistisg:tt,
mitigated form.
we had
vvhmae.dshlbtor,:iuicgi htsotohne
of the slave trade. He thanked the Noble Lord for
the support he had given to this question.
Lord H. VANE attributed, in a great degree, the
suppresion of the slays trade to the co-operation of the
Braz-le rather than to the effects of the squadron. If
we cultivated a good endcrstanOing wich the Brazils we
should be able to attain our object much earlier than by
the adoption of the proposition for conatructing new