The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-11 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 10.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, took his seat upon the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.
PASSENGERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Earl GREY moved the second reading of this Bill,
which was intended to remedy certain defects which had
been discovered iu the working of the present laws,
and which would operate to the prevention of the employ-
ment of a superior class of vessels as passenger ships.
At present passenger ships going to America were
obliged to carry provisions for ten weeks, and the Com-
missioners had no power of modifying this requirement;
now steamers of a greater power and of a superior class
had been laid dow❑ which would make the voyage in a
much less time than other ♦essels, and it was proposed
that the companies should have power to modify the re-
gulations as regarded such steam-ships. It also pro-
posed under certain circumstances to permit, with the
consent of the passengers, the substitution of one sort of
provisions for another, and to give the Commissioners a
power of relaxing existing regulations in cases of
ships receiving damage being obliged to put back.
Lord REDESDALE drew the attention of their
Lordships to the fact of the number of deck passengers
who were crowded upon the decks of the Irish steamers;
there was a case the other day in which an infant had
perished from being exposed to the inclemency of the
weather on the deck of one of those steamers. In fact,
the guardians of many of the unions in Ireland had paid
for the passage of many of these unfortunate paupers,
in order to get rid of the burden of their maintenance.
He hoped the attention of the Government would be
directed to this subject.
Lord W ODEHOUSE thought the cabin passengers
stood almost as much in need of protection as steerage
passengers, and hoped that the agents would receive di-
rections to see that proper provisions and an adequate
supply of water should be provided for them.
Lord COLCHESTER alluded to the case of several
persons who last year were smothered on their voyage
from Belfast to Glasgow, as a proof of the necessity of
regulating steam passenger vessels going only short
voyages.
Earl GREY thought that it would be inexpedient to
legislate on the subject of cabin passengers; they had the
power of taking care of themselves by employing re-
spectable brokers. With regard to the passenger
ships for Ireland, the Noble Earl was understood
to intimate that he thought some regulations would be
desirable. _ .

The Earl of HARROWBY made some observations,
but he spoke in a tone so indistinct that it was impos-
sible to catch even their purport.
Earl GREY replied. The greatest care was taken of
e emigrants by the Government agents in New Bruns-
ick and Canada.
Lord MONTE AGLE bore witness to the great care
and indefatigable attention to their duties exhibited by the
emigration agents in the British North American colo-
nies. He thought the same legislative protection ought
to be afforded to cabin passengers.
The Bill was then read a second time.
PETITIONS.

The Earl of FEVERSHAM presented several peti-
tions from parishes in the North Riding of Yorkshire,
praying for a restoration of agricultural protection.
The Earl of FALMOUTH presented a petition from
the guardians of the Wallingford Union in favour of an
alteration in the law for making parochial assessments.
The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition from a
person named Mitchell, a suitor in the Court of Chan-
cery, complaining that he had suffered grievously from
the dilatoriness of that Court, and praying for a reform
in its proceedings.
SALE OF ARSENIC.

The Earl of CARLISLE introduced a Bill for regu,
ating the sale of arbenic, which was read a first time.

REGISTRATION OF DEEDS BILL.

Thn Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice, on be-
half of his Noble Friend the Lord Chief Justice, that he
would on Monday next move the second reading of
this Bill.

COUNTY COURTS BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM announced that it was his inten-
tion to make divers alterations in this Bill, in conse-
quence of suggestions which he had received, and if he
had not noticed all the suggestions which had been
transmitted to him it was not from disrespect to the per-
sons making thFm.
DESIGNS ACT EXTENSION BILL.

On the suggestion of Lord BROUGHAM,
The Earl of GRANVILLE consented that this Bill
should be referred to a Select Committee.
PAPAL AGGRESSION.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM gave notice that he should to-
morrow, on presenting a petition, make some observations
on the subject of the Papal aggression.
Their Lordships then adjourned.
4P.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 10.

Tho SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Mr. EVANS moved that in the case of the Man-
chester, Buxton, Matlock, and Midland Junction Rail-
way Bill, the Standing Order No. 152, be dispensed
with:—That leave be given to present the Bill, not-
withstanding the same was not presented within three
clear days after the presentation of the petition for leave
to bring iu the same.—Agreed to.
Mr. BROTHERTON moved that, on the motion for
the second reading of the Caledonian Railway (Glas-
gow, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge, Polloc and Govan, &c.,
Railways) (Amendment and Continuation, &c.) Bill,
the Standing Orders Nos. 160 and 163, be sus-
pended; and that the consideration of the second reading
be postponed till Friday next.—Agreed to.
SECOND READINGS. _

'rt.. c..ll.,m;.+Riills were then read a seonnd time:—
Buckingham, Brackley, aad Banbury Turnpike Road.
Cork and Waterford Railway.

Lincolnshire Estuary.

Mayfield Railway.
Shrewabury and Birmingham Railway.
Towcester, Brackley, and Weston-on-the-Green Turnpike

Road.
Waterford and Tramore Railway.
PETITIONS.

Lord HOTHAM presented a petition against the Mer
cantile Marin© Act.

Several other petitions were presented to a similar effect.
Mr. HENRY presented a petition from the County
Down against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS presented a petition from several
gentlemen of high respectability in the City, com-
plaining of the unjust proceedings of her Majesty's
Custom-house authorities.
Mr. PLUMPTRE presented a petition against the
removal of Smithfield-market.
Mr. T. EGERTON presented a petition from a place
in Cheshire against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.
Several other petitions were presented to a similar

effect.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from Bir-
mingham praying for the repeal of the window tax.
Sir B. HALL presented similar petitions from Mary-
lebone.
Mr. PORTAL presented a petition from Kingston, in
Hampshire, praying for the removal of agricultural
distress.
Alderman COPELAND presented a petition against
the removal of Smithfield-market.
Mr. STUART presented a petition from the attorneys
and solicitors, praying that the salaries of the Vice-
Chancellor and the officers to be appointed be not paid
oat of the suitors' fund; also a petition from Newark
against the paper duty.
Mr. H. GRATTAN presented several petitions from
Ireland against the principle of centralisation; also se-
veral others complaining of agricultural distress.
Colonel CHATTERTON presented several petitions
against Papal aggression.
Mr. R. D. MANGLES presented petitions from se-
veral places in Surrey against the removal of Smithfield-
market.
Mr. ALCOCK presented petitions to a similar effect.
Similar petitions were presented by the SOLICITOR-
GENERAL from the butchers of Southampton, and by
Mr. WALLET from Stoke Newington.
THE MERCANTILE MARINE AND CONSOLI-

DATION BILLS.
Lord JOHN MANNERS begged to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Board of Trade
whether he had taken any notice of the several dis-
turbances which had taken place in various ports, in
consequence of the operation of the Mercantile Marine
Bill, and whether he contemplated any alteration in the
provisions of that Bill. He would also ask the
Right Honourable Gentleman whether he intended
during the present session to renew the Consolidation
Marine Bill, which had been brought under the notice
of the House during the last year ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the Noble Lord had
asked him questions on two subjects which were totally
distinct in character, though both referred to the mer-
cantile marine of this country. With respect to the
Consolidation Act, to which the Noble Lord had referred,
he had to say that he had received communications from
several parts of the country,which had induced him to post-
pone the introduction of that or another measure till some
future time. With respect to the Mercantile Marine
Bill, he might add that it was not his intention to intro-
duce during the present session any provisions for the
material alteration or amendment of that Act.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL.
Mr. MOWATT presented a petition. from Falmouth
against the Bill.
Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND gave notice that if the
Government still persevered in their intention of
omitting the 2d and 3d clauses of this Bill, he should,
when any motion to that effect was made in Committee,
move that the chairman do leave the chair.
JEWS' (ABJURATION OATH) BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice that he should
on Thursday next move for leave to bring in a Bill for
the amendment of the Abjuration of Oaths Bill.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND).
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice that, on
the 18th of March, he would move for leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the Act for Facilitating the Transfer of
Encumbered Estates in Ireland, and to give a simple and
effectual security to the purchasers of such estates.
SMITHFIELD MARKET.
Mr. MASTERMAN gave notice of a motion for
counsel to be heard at the bar against the Removal of
Smithfield Market Bill.
The SPEAKER intimated that, in its present shape,
the motion could not be entertained.
Mr. MASTERMAN was aware of that, but all he
desired was publicity for his object.
THE KAFIR WAR.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he rose to answer
the question which had been put on Friday respecting the
Kafir war. The Government had received several
dispatches on the subject, one of which gave an
account Cl' an ineffectual attempt o► Captain So-
merset to join Sir Harry Smith. The statements
which had been received subsequently. to that
date were contained in private communications to
Alembers of the House, and in the ACCOUnta of the

outbreak published in the newspapers.—(Rear, hear.)
A question had been asked about the extent of the fort ;es
in the Cape. At the close 01 the last Kafir war the
number of men engaged in the colony were 3,303; at the
pre,ent time the tortes of every description amoun teri to
3,699; but Sir II srry Smith had sent home the s econd
battalion of rifles, and orders had, therefore,
been dispatched from the War-office for rem oving
a regiment from Gibraltar to the Cape.—(Hear, T )ear.)
With regard to the expense of the proceedings, the 1 louse
was aware that in 1848 and 1849 dispatches were laid
on the table of the House, in which Lord Grey dec le.red
to the colonists that in future they would be expecte I to
make provisions themselves for outbreaks of this nuttire;
and in another dispatch written no later than last week
this declaration of opinion was reiterated.—(Hear, he ar.)
He thought it right to make this announcement, and iu
sitting down he might as well add that there would be no
objection to produce the dispatches to which he had. re-
ferred.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME wished to know what the real state of the
government of the Cape was? The declaration of the
Secretary for the Colonies would be applicable to the
Cape it the colonists were invested with the power of
self-government, but unfortunately they had never en-
joyed that privilege. Now, the colonists themselves
had openly declared, in public meeting, not only that
they had nothing to do with the last war, but that the
expenditure attending it was incurred by parties over
whom they had no control, because they were appointed
by the home authorities. " Give us," say the colotihsts,
" the management of our own affairs, and we are quite
ready to pay the piper, but not without."—(Hear, hear.)
It was very well for Earl Grey to write letters; but did
he do what was his bounden duty, place the colonis vs in
a position to protect themselves? As long as Earl
Grey remained at the head of the department to
which he belonged he would sink any Administra-
tion.—(Laughter.) Every one acquainted with
the Cape of Good Hope must know that with a frontier
extending some thousands of miles, it was impossible
for a person sent out from the Horse Guards to conduct
the government and affairs of the colony as well
as those who were resident on the spot. It would
be recollected that the inhabitants in every
village of the country met, and elected four individuals
as delegates, to consult with the Governor as to the
formation of a constitution. Sir Harry Smith told
those gentlemen the first thing they had to do
was to vote for a military establishment,. but
they felt it their duty to reject that proposi-
tion, and the consequence was that they were
compelled to throw themselves on their constiquents,
who thought they had acted consistently with the
powers given to them. Then at the largest meeting
ever held at the Cape two individuals were appointed
to come over to England and represent the feelings
of the colonists to the Government. These gentlemen
had arrived, and one of them had been in Lon don three
months, yet nothing had been done by the Go vernment.
In fact, the colony was now under the rule of st, military
despot, instead of a representative Governmi at, and the
result would be that the whole surplus revenue of
the country would be swallowed up in the de-
fence of the colony, instead of being applied
for the purposes of education in this country. As long
as the affairs of the colonies were carried on in this reck-
less way, it was impossible the country could swim.—
(Laughter.) He meant by a country swimming when it
was able to pay its debts.—(Laughter.) He did think
it was true that some decisive step should be taken in
this matter; and, on that ground, he had been induced
to make these observations to the House.—(Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he would only advert to
one part of the Hon. Member's remarks which was where
he spoke of the Government as being employed in
taking away from the colony all chance of obtaining a
representative government.—(Cries of " No, no.")
So far from her Majesty's Government having
only taken the first step in this matter three days
before the meeting of Parliament, an inquiry had been
going on several months before, the result of which was,
that a representative Government, of the most free and
liberal nature, had been recommended. It was, there-
fore, far from just to hold up the Government to repro-
bation as stifling all attempts of the colony to obtain re-
presentative institutions.
Mr. ADI)ERLEY, though he did not entirely im-
pute it to the present Government that the Cape of
Good Hope had not long since obtained representative
institutions, yet still he thought that it was owing to a
want of concert between the Government at home and
their officials at the Cape, that representative institu-
tions had not been established there, from the want of
which a large expense would now be brought upon this
country. He wished to ask the Noble Lord whether he
had taken it into his consideration that British Kafraria,
where these disturbances had arisen, was an entirely
different colony from the Cape colony, under a different
administration, and under different fiscal regulations?—
(Hear.) He hoped that the Government did nut
delude themselves with the idea that they could call
upon the Cape to bear the slightest share of the ex-
pense. He bad risen to ask the Noble Lord whether
a dispatch ha 4 been received from Sir H. Smith which
would enable, the Government to lay on the table of the
House the correspondence which had taken place on the
subject of the new institutions, since the time when
the letters-patent were first sent out up to the present
time.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that such a dispatch had not
yerarri ved.
Mr. V. SMITH was afraid that the state of affairs
was not such as to allow them to enter into a discussion
at present on the:conduct of the Colonial Department.
If such dispatches had been received, he wished to know
when it was the intention of the Government to produce
them. At the close of 1848 a dispatch of Earl Grey
had assured them that for the future the colonists should
be made responsible for the expenses of any future war;
that it was the intention of the Government to bring in
a Bill for the promotion of freo institutions in that
country, in order that the colonists might take the
management of their own affairs. With free institutions
they might be able to pay their expenses, but he was
quite sure that they could not do so without
them. They had been assured from time to
time that measures would be taken for that
object, but no such measures had been intro-
duced. It was all very well for his Noble Friend
to say that this was not the time for the introduction of
those measures, but he believed that the only time for
the consideration of them by the House was, when
the colonists were in a state of suffering, and liable to
expense. The frontier had been unnecessarily extended,
and was, in fact, in a state wholly indefensible at the
present moment.
Lord J. RUSSELL could only say that the dispatches
should be produced as soon as they were received, and
with regard to the last observation of his Right Hon.
Friend, ho believed that the frontier was now in a more
defensible state than ever it was before.
Mr. G. BANKES thought it strange that the informa-
tion should have been received respecting this war before
there were any communications with the Government.
He wished to ask whether there was not some officer
who could communicate with the Government in the ab-
sence of the Governor ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that in the absence of the
Governor, the Secretary of the Colonial Government was
their correspondent.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the private letter from which the information had
been derived came from the Commissary of the Govern-
ment.
The subject then dropped.
IMMIGRATION OF PAUPERS FRONI IRELAND.
Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE wished to ask a question
which was of the greatest moment to the country. It
referred to the immigration of paupers from Ireland.
An inquest had been held by Mr. Carter on the
body of a child of Mary Connell. The verdict
was that the child, an infant of only four months
old, had died from exposure to the weather
during its passage from Ireland. It was one of 750
passengers crowded upon the deck of the vessel without
any covering but the air, each of whom paid only 2s. for
their passage. He had also understood that 1,000 pas-
sengers had been brought over for Is. 6d. a head. He
wished to know whether any measures had been taken
or were contemplated by the Government fur the con-
duct of those vessels?
Mr. LABOUCHERE believed that inquiries had al-
ready been made, but if not they should be immediately,
with a view to the rectification of these abuses.
Mr. CARDWELL observed that the penalties fixed
by the existing Acts of Parliament were quite inade-
quate to suppress the evil of overcrowding.
Mr. LABOUCHERE admitted that they were, but
he was about to introduce a Bill to increase them.
Sir JAMES DUKE also stated that the steps taken
by the Government with respect to the over-crowding of
river steam-boats were wholly inefficient.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE repeated that a Bill was about
to be brought in to embrace the whole subject, and he
therefore hoped this discussion would be kept up no
longer.—(Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
COMMISSIONERS OF SEWERS.
Sir B. HALL wished to ask the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department
a question: with reference to the Metropolitan Commis-
sioners or P.,0`i...-sre, By the report which had just
beenissued for 1850, it appeared that the expenses
of management amounted to the enormous sum
of 92,4651., and he wished to know whether it was
the intention of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman to introduce any measure during the
present session for altering or amending the present
Commission?—(Hear, hear.) It was also stated, in the
report for 1850, that the Commissioners shortly in-
tended to raise a large sum of money upon the security
of the rates, and he should be glad to know if the Right
Hon. Baronet would sanction such a loan?—(Hear.)
Sir GEORGE GREY replied that the Act establish-
ing the existing Commission would expire at the end of
the present session, and it would therefore be necessary
that some Bill should be proposed to Parliament for its
continuance; but what changes would be proposed
by that Bill, or when it would be brought
in, he was as yet unable to state.—(Hear, hear.)
With regard to the loan it would be seen by the report
that the Commission proposed to raise it in the exercise
of the power which they enjoyed under the Act of
Parliament, and he had, therefore, no authority to inter-
fere.—(Hear, hear.) As to the expense of the Commis-
sion, all he could say was that the accounts had been
annually audited by an accountant appointed by. the
Home-office, and hitherto they had been found strictly
correct.—(Hear, hear.)
CHURCH PREFERMENT.
Sir B. HALL next directed the Right Hon. Baronet's
attention to a return which had been laid on the table
in pursuance of an order of the House. The return
related to the number of preferments held by each
bishop, but the Bishops of St. Davids, Ely,, and Exeter
h:„d 1r.,:d0 no returns, and ho wished to know if any.
thing WO proposed to be done to obtain the required
information from those three Right Rev. Prelates.
Sir G. GREY said he had received no communication
from the Bishop of Illy; but the Bishops of St. David's

and Exeter wrote last summer to say that the return
would take a deal of time, and occasion some trouble to
collect.—(Hear, hear.) Since then he had sot
heard from either of them ; but the order of
the House had been forwarded to them, and they
had been pressed to make the necessary returns.
Sir B. HALL, under the circumstances, gave notice
that to-morrow he should move that the returns be
made forthwith.—(Hear, hear.)
JAMAICA.

Mr. BERNAL wished to know from the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Under Secretary for the Colonies if Govern-
ment intended to take any steps fnu supplying the island
of Jamaica with free labourers, Mince the cholera had
swept off more than halt of its labouring population?
Mr. HAWES must decline answering that question

till to-morrow, but he could state now that the- return
moved for by the Honourable Member for Cambridge
would give the fullest information on the subject.
REFUSAL TO RECEIVE ADDRESSES TO HER
MAJESTY YROM ORANGE LODGES.
Capt. ARC UDALL asked the Right Hon. Secretary of
the Home Department why he felt it inconsistent with his
duty to lay before her Majesty certain loyal and dutiful
addresses against the Papal aggression from Orange
Lodges in Ireland, he having in 1848 presented to her
Majesty similar addresses from the same body ?
Sir G. GREY replied that he had receive i three ad-
dresses within the last few months to be presented to
her Majesty, and they were of the following character.
The first was from the Grand Lodge of the Orange-
men of Great Britain, purporting to be signed by Lord
Enniskillen, the grand-master, and other parties.
The second was from the Loyal Lodge of
Orangemen in Ireland, also signed by Lord Enniskillen
as the grand master; and the third was from the Orange-
men of Liverpool. He thought it was not consistent
with his duty to present these addresses to her Ma-
jesty, on the ground of their purporting to come
from societies which used secret signs, and
which on that account were illegal. It was true
he had presented addresses in 1848 from the same
bodies, but this was an oversight, and he alone ought to
be censured.—(Hear.) But as regarded the addresses
referred to by the Hon. Member, he thought he was
only acting in strict accordance with his duty in declin-
ing to lay them before her Majesty.—(Hear.)
BOROUGH OF DUNGARVAN.

Mr. LAWLESS asked the Secretary for Ireland (Sir
W. Somerville) the reason why no vacancy had been
announced in the representation of the borough of Dun-
garvan?

Sir W. SOMERVILLE replied that all he could say
was, that the matter was not connected with his depart-
ment.—(Laughter.)