The Sun.
London, England, 1856-06-25 00:00:00

WINE DUTIES.

Mr. OLIVEIRA. gave notice that on the Bth July he
should renew his motion for a reduction of the wine
duties.

MAYNOOTII COLLEGE BILL.
Mr. SPOONER, in moving the second reading of
this bill, said it was intended by the provisions of
the bill to separate all connection whatever be-
tween the Government and the nation at large and
the College of Maynooth, and to leave it to its
own resources and management, and take away
what he believed to be a national sin in this
country supporting a college founded on the principles
and for the teaching the doctrines of the Church of
Rome. The hon. gentleman then explained the clauses
of the act. The first two provided that the property at
present belonging to the College should be retained by
it. The third clause provided that no more grants shall
be made from the Consolidated Fund to the College ex-
cept sufficient for the maintenance and education of
those students who were in the College at the time of
the passing of the bill, and for providing professors, &c.,
for completing their education. After these vested life
interests, so to speak, had ceased the grants to the
College to cease. The fourth clause provided for
the repeal of the clauses in the present act relating
to the appointment of visitors. The bill now before the
house was simple i❑ its operation and clear in its ob-
ject. The hon. gentleman, after repeating most of the
arguments used by him in former discussions relative to
the repeal of the grants to Maynooth, moved the second
reading of the bill amidst loud cries of "divide."

Sir W. VERNER seconded the motion amidst some
impatience, and repeated cries of " divide." He be-
lieved the foundation of this college was one of the
greatest misfortunes that had ever happened to Ireland.
Mr. JAMES M‘GREGOR supported the second
reading of the bill, believing the teaching of Maynooth
was contrary to civil and religious liberty, and subver-
sive of loyalty and attachment to the Queen of these
realms. He trusted the house would affirm their deci-
sion in April last on this question by reading the bill
a second time. It was a question of the greatest im-
portance, and he hoped the house would treat it
accordingly.
Mr. H. HERBERT moved the second reading of the
bill that day six months.
Mr. NAPIER. supported the second reading of the
bill. He said that the question presented two views—
that of an education grant and a religious endowment.
The grant was never supported by the State as a reli-
gious endowment, but for educational purposes. Un-
fortunately the money, instead of being so employed,
had been applied to the support and propagation of
ultra-Montanism, and the house had no right to
vote money professedly for one object and allow
it to be applied to another. He objected
to the grant as a religious endowment, because
it was incompatible with Protestantism and our state
religion. If it was given as an educational grant, it
had failed in its purpose, and the repeal of the Act of
1845 would not prevent the collego of Maynooth from
obtaining assistance from the committee of the Privy
Council for Education for the 'promotion of education.
Mr. MAGUIRE vindicated the college of Maynooth
and the Roman Catholic religion against the calumnies
that had been thrown out against both, and said the
hon. member for South War mickshire had been deceived
and misled in everything connected with the Roman
Catholic Church in Ireland. If ho believed that the
teaching at Maynooth undermined loyalty,
he (Mr. Maguire) would be the first to cry
" Down with Maynooth," but the report of
the Commissioners showed the contrary, both with
regard to that and the teaching at Maynooth generally;
and he contended that a report of that kind ought to
have greater weight with the members of that house
than vague and hasty statements made during the heat
of debate to the contrary. If the teaching at Maynooth
was so bad as had been represented, and those who
were educated there so immoral, the lion, member for
S)nth Warwickshire and his party deserted their duty
in not endeavouring to wrest the 3,000 national schools
in Ireland from the management and control of those
priests, and not leave them as was proposed by the
insidious motion before the house a few nights since in
their hands. He also defended the Church of Rome

from the charge of obstructing education amongst the
poorer classes belonging to that church, and extolled the
general conduct of the Roman Catholic priests towards
the poor, which ho said presented a striking contrast to
the conduct of clergymen of other denominations. After
some further remarks in reply to the arguments used by
the supporters of the bill, the hon, gentleman, in reply
to the excuse that this was not a favourable time to de-
cide the question, boldly challenged the house to produce
100 members from amongst them who were really ear-
nest in their opposition to the grant. (Hear, hear.)
He called upon the hon. member for South Warwick-
shire to judge of Maynooth by the people of Ireland as
he (Mr. Maguire) judged the inhabitants of Lon-
don, by a description of the Protestant state of
the metropolis as described by a Protestant noble-
man, and a member of that house (Lord Robert
Grosvenor), at a meeting lately held in the metro-
polis. That nobleman said there were from 12,000 to
30,000 souls in various parts of the metropolis under
but orke incumbent, and the greater portion of these
people were allowed to grow up in worse than Heathen
ignorance. (Hear, hear.) That was not the case with the
Irish Roman Catholics. He advised the hon. member
to distinguish himself, and get his name recorded in the
ecclesiastical history of the country by joining the noble
lord ; because there was work enough for him to do in
London, instead of his attacking Maynooth to induce
people to squander their money in the farcical hope of
getting the people of Ireland to change their religion
and their faith. The attempt had been made
and failed, for all that these persons who
had been sent to Ireland for that purpose
(possessed with brazen audacity, with white choak-
ers—(laughter)—and full pockets) had accomplished was
a little commotion which speedily subsided. In conclu-
sion, the hon, gentleman referred to the effects of the
teaching of other religious denominations, and adverted
to the number of persons in England, Scotland, and
Wales that annually emigrated to the Salt Lake to join
the Mormons, whilst not one Irishman joined them ; and
he called upon the house to decide the question once for
all, and do away with that irritation that had so long
existed on the subject.
Mr. DRUMMOND, in a humorous speech, said it
was impossible to properly govern Ireland on sectarian
principles.
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the second reading
of the bill. He had no wish to deprive Ireland of the
grant of 30,0001. a-year for educational purposes, but
he objected to its being granted as a religious endow-
ment for spreading the doctrines of the Remish Church.
(Loud cries of " Divide.")
Mr. BLAND opposed the bill.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he intentionally absented
himself on a former occasion, because he wished to
know the scope of the hon. member for South Warwick-
shire's intention with regard to Maynooth before be
voted on the question, from the numerous difficulties
with which it was surrounded. He was sorry to say, after
examining the principles of the bill, he could not support it
—(bear)—and he at the same time said he was not pre-
pared to reverse the policy that bad been acted on with
reference to Maynooth and national education in Ireland.
It would be wise policy on the part of the house to
keep things as they are in Ireland. It was undesirable
to excite angry feelings between Roman Catholics and
Protestants—that must be the inevitable result of with-
drawing this grant.
Mr. BOWYER defended the system of education pur-
' sued at Maynooth. He denied that the teaching of the
college was ultramontane ; the system was not ultra-
montane enough. It had been stated that the book of
Liguori was used as a text book at the college ; now the
fact was that Liguori was not a text book ; there, in-
deed, it was not used at all. (Cries of " Divide.")
Mr. HORSMAN said the Government adhered to the
opinion expressed last session, namely, that it would be
both impolitic and unjust to refuse this grant. He
intended to give this measure his most determined
opposition. (Rear, hear.) He regretted that this