The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-31 00:00:00

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES.

Mr. HENRY A. HERBERT wished to ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, whether the registrar of
friendly societies was authorised by the Government, or
by the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National
Debt, to state at a public meeting, held at St. Helen's, in
April, 1850, that a Bill would, without doubt, be imme-
diately passed by the Legislature, giving to de-
positors in savings banks Government security for
their investment* whether it was tinder the
sanction of either the Government or the Commis-
missioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, that
the said Registrar of Friendly Sobieties recommended at
St. Helen's the formation of a new institution (the old
one having failed), and advised parties to deposit their
savings, on the grounds that future frauds would be im-
possible; and whether the Government will b 3 respon-
sible for any losses that may accrue to depositors, either
at St. Helen's or elsewhere, who may have been induced
by the advice of this public officer to invest their money
in a savings bank?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
understood to reply in the negative.
METROPOLITAN BUILDINGS.

Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to know whether it was
intended to proceed with the Metropolitan Building
Act Amendment Bill to-night.
Lord SEYMOUR said it was not, but he hoped to be
able to proceed with it before Easter.
ARMY IN INDIA.

Colonel DUNNE should be glad to know from the
Hon. the Secretary at War whether the rule that no
regiment should remain in India beyond fifteen years
would be carried out in future?
Mr. FOX MAULE replied in the affirmativa. The
Horse Guards had established a rule that a regimen,
should not remain in India more than five years.
SUPPLY.

On the motion for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUME reminded the House that on Friday night
the House voted 98,714 men for the army, and 3,500,000/.
as part of the army estimates for the year. The Go-
vernment would be treating the Committee up-stairs,which
was sitting on the ordnance estimates, in a slighting
manner if they proceeded with the votes until their
report was laid on the table. He presumed the
Government had withdrawn their Budget with
the view of reconsidering and ameading it ;
but in what situation did they leave the
country by delay? It was their duty to prevent as
much as possible the inconveniences which might arise
from change of taxation, but they had taken a course
which was calculated to increase rather than to diminish
the evil. The timber and coffee trades were completely
at a stand in consequence of the uncertainty which
existed relative to the determination of the Government
as to the duty on those articles, and pending also the
settlement of the window-tax, arrangements respecting
the occupation and leasing of houses could not be com-
pleted. The community at large were, therefore, put to
very great inconvenience, and he thought it was
the duty of the House to demand from the Government,
that they should proceed with the Budget before any
more of the public money was voted away.—(Hear.)
The income of the State which, in 1836, amounted to 46
millions, had increased in 1841 to between 54 and 57
millions, and he thought the people had a right
to know as soon as possible how much of that
enormous amount of taxation they were to be relieved
from. In his opinion not a shilling should be paid to-
wards the liquidation of the national debt while the ex-
cise duties pressed heavily on the labouring classes.—
(Hear.) The Hon. Member concluded by moving that
no further supply should be granted until the financial
statement was made to the House.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
understood the object of the Hon. Gentleman to be to
obtain from him a repetition of the pledge that the
financial statement would be made on Friday.
He could assure the Honourable Gentleman that
no one was more anxious than hmiself that
the financial statement should come on on
the earliest day possible, and if no unforeseen circum-
.

stance should occur iu the meantime, it was his inten•

tion to make that statement on Friday next. His Hon.
Friend must know that the financial year closed to-day,
and that not a farthing could now be paid out of
the Exchequer, with respect to the army estimates.
without the sanction of Parliament. He would permit
him to say, therefore, that the votes to be proposed to-
night were more pressing than the financial statement.
He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would allow the House
to proceed with the business before it, and he would by
so doing really further the object which he had in view,
namely, the bringing forward at an early day of the
financial statement.
Mr. ELLICE entreated the Honourable Gentle-
man the Member for Montrose not to proceed
with his motion at present. He himself was of
opinion that when the other votes came under conside-
ration it would be the duty of the House to press upon
her Majesty's Government the necessity of introducing
a larger measure of economy by consolidating the diffe-
rent establishments at home and abroad, and he hoped
the Noble Lord would be able speedily to tell them
whether Government had any such measure under their
consideration. But he could assure the Hon. Member
for Montrose that he would gain nothing at all by thus
throwing obstacles in the way of business which must be
got through. The present vote was for the clothing and
maintenance of the army, and he was afraid the money
must be paid, so that no good could be done by resisting
the vote, and he hoped the Honourable Gentleman
would consent to withdraw the motion.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the Right Honour-
able Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
entirely mistaken the object of his Honourable Friend's
complaint. It was not that he was afraid that
he would not bring forward his financial statement
on Friday night, but that he had delayed it until he had
got the House committed to all the principal votes. He
did not think the Government deserved the concession
which they asked from his Hon. Friend.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD supported the pro-
position of the Hon. Member for Montrose. The prin-
ciple on which he based his motion was one desirous of
observation at all times, but now particularly under cir-
cumstances like the present; and he thought that he
was perfectly justified in the course which he pursued.
Mr. MOWATT said that be had understood that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had given a positive pledge
that he would bring forward his financial statement on
Friday. The Right Hon. Gentleman must be aware
that the whole business of the country was stopped by
the delay of that statement.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.'
He understood that this was the last day m
which, without a renewal of the estimates, lily
pay could be issued to the army. He was surpriseC to
find that so many months of the session had already
passed, and yet in reality no business had been dose.—
(Hear, hear.) He was aware that, as the Chancehor of
the Exchequer had intimated, a bill in which, by the over-
whelming majority which the Ministers had obtained
the other night, there had been a question in which
the public felt great interest. Yet while he acknow-
ledged that he at the same time felt that that was no
reason why the whole business of the country should be
intermitted. He trusted, therefore, that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would give some assurance that they
should go into Committee of Supply on Friday.
Mr. WAKLEY also hoped that the Chancellor would
give some such assurance on this subject, and also on
another. It was generally understood in the country
that the window-tax was to form a prominent iten in
the Right Hon. Gentleman's plans, and the public in-
deed considered that the window-tax was virtually
repealed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that his Noble Friend at the head of the Goverment
and be himself bad stated that it was the intention of
Ministers to make the financial statement on Friday.

The House was about to divide, but
Mr. HUME said that under those circumstances h©
would withdraw his motion.

The motion was then accordingly withdrawn.
THE ARMY ESTIMATES.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
On the motion that 3,521,070/. be granted for the
payment of the land forces,
Mr. HUME said that he hoped before the se3sion was
closed, although the vote was passed, that aE opportu-
nity would be given of reconsidering all the appoint-
ments of the several corps in the way of clothing and
other affairs.

The vote was then passed.
The CHAIRMAN then put a vote of 1,570,0001. for
the use and supply of the Ordnance Department.
Mr. F. MAULE should have no objection to the
course proposed by the Hon. Gentleman if he coald see
his way clear, but he was afraid, if he adopted ;he sug-
gestion of the Hon. Gentleman, they would not be able
to get through the estimates this year.
Mr. MO WATT wished to have explanation as to the
course which the Horse Guards intended to pursue in
reference to the colonies. New South %Vales, for in-
stance, had received notice that the troopswouid be wtih-
drawn from that colony, and any future force the colony
might require it would have to pay for itself. Now as that
same course was to be applied to other colonies, he
should be glad to know why they conic: not reduce the
army estimates, iwithout in any way impairing the effi-
ciency of the home service 2—(Hear, hear.) He cOm-
plained bitterly of the manner in which the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government stopped the discus-
sion on Fridap night, and declared that should another
Ministerial crisis arise, he should be the first to desert
from the Noble Lord's ranks.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL was at a loss to know to what the
Hon. Gentleman referred. The fullest opportunity was
given for discussion on Friday night, while his Right
Hon. Friend, the Secretary at War, entered into a
lengthened explanation of the reductions that were pro-
posed to be made in the army estimates, and he really
could not understand what cause there was for complaint.
Mr. MOWATT repeated that the Noble Lord did his
utmost to stop the discussion on Friday.
After some observations from Sir DE LACY EvArts
and Mr. Fox MAULE,
Mr. HUME asked whether the time had not come
when, if they found it necessary to have 98,000 men,
they should not reduce the expense of maintaining them
to the smallest possible amount. There was an
officer to every eight men, whose only duty wat tD
dress himself, parade, and go to court. The aristocracy
had a great influence in keeping up such a system, and it
would never be abolished unless the House interfered.
There were 15,000 household troops out of the 98,000,
whose services were never called into use except on great
occasions. The way in which the 15,000 troops
were treated was unjust to the rest, the majority
of whom did duty abroad, and were subjected
to great risks and privations. He thought the
army ought to be entirely remodelled—that the
service of the troope ought to be universal
and no pet army allowed to remain at home and share
all honours without having done anything to entitle
them to those honours.
Mr. VERNON SMITH thought the Hon. Member
had wandered from the subject before the House. He
deprecated the system of taking votes OR account,

because it often happened that when the other half was
proposed to be taken, it was too late to enter on the
discussion of the subject. He understood that his Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. Fox Mania) only proposed to take
those votes which were absolutely necessary to-day.
Mr. F. MAULE said it was his intention to proceed
with the army estimates to-night in the usual way.
(LEFT SITTING.)

IRELAND.
A FACT FOR SIR JAMES GRAHAM.

DUBLIN, SATURDAY.-Sir James Graham stated some
evenings ago, in his place in the House of Commons,
that the Irish Act which prohibited the assumption of
titles by Roman Catholic bishops was repealed in the
year 1793. Now, I have the authority of one of the
most respectable solicitors in this country—if not the
recognised head of the profession—to state that about
thirty-five years ago he was engaged in a trial at Car-
rickfergus, when:Dr. Derry, a Roman bishop, was pro-
duced to give the prisoner a character. Mr. Alexander
Hamilton, Q.C., introduced him as the Roman Catholic
Bishop of Drotnore, when Judge Fletcher called the
Learned Counsel to order, and requested that he would
style the witness legally, as simply Dr. Derry, for surely
Mr. Hamilton must know, as well as he did, that there
was a law in force which forbade the assumption of
titles by the Roman Catholic hierarchy. Mr. Hamilton
bowed to the decision of the bench, and the witness was
examined as if he were a mere clergyman of the Romish
Church.
Now, Sir James Graham may be old enough to recol-
lect that Judge Fletcher enjoyed the reputation of being
one of the soundest lawyers of hia time, and the great
probability is the Act to which he referred has never
been repealed, and is consequently in full force at the
present day.—Herald.
THE " IRISH COURT."

The Ministerial announcement on Friday evening re-
specting the intention of Government to abandon the
projected measure for the abolition of the Viceroyalty
has diffused great joy among the partisans of " the
Castle" and afforded a portion of the press fresh grounds
for exultation at the recent system of tactics played off
by the Irish brigade, to the potent agency of whose
" vote" is attributed, perhaps fairly, Lord John Russell's
deference to the voice of public opinion upon this ques-
tion of abolition. Of course, considering the state of
" business," this was only to be expected, and the an-
nouncement has created but little surprise at this side
of the Channel. Indeed, considering the strange events
which have characterised the Parliamentary session
since its commencement, it may be doubted whether the
ultimate abandonment of the Aggression Bill itself
would cause any marked astonishment, or be regarded
as anything more than one of the incidents of the year
of the Great Exhibition. The omission of all reference
in the Speech from the Throne to the Lord-Lieutenantcy
was from the first deemed tolerably conclusive evidence
that there was no serious intention, et least at present,
to plunge deeper into this sea of " Irish difficulties."