The Sun.
London, England, 1851-04-11 00:00:00

EVENI‘if,
IN tar

he must say the voluntary abandonment of such an
empire as this--consisting of such vast possessions—
containing a friendly port in every quarter of the globe—
that this was a sacrifice which no country had ever been
known to make at any former period.—(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Baronet had gone at considerable length into
an estimate of our colonial expenditure. He (Mr.
Hawes) did net think that the items were quite the
same as those he hod used on a former occasion. Per-
haps the Hon. Baronet had seen from further inquiry
that the items of the expenditure which he formerly
quoted required to be materially modified. It was
almost impossible to make a reply to details of this de-
scription, which required the greatest consideration, and
the most careful examination, in order to arrive at any-
thing like an eccuraie estimate. He thought that the
Right Hon. Baronet had materially over-estimated our
colonial expenditure. The Hon. Gentleman altogether
excluded on :the present occasion all military stations
and convict stations, but he had not decided what the
military stations of the empire were. For instance, the
Cape he did not include amongst the military stations,
and he would find other cases in which it would be
equally difficult to distinguish the colony proper
from a military station. The Mauritius was a case
in point. It was a colony which, in point cf posi-
tion, was of the highest military importance for
the defence of our trade. And yet it was a colony
which produced about 60,000 or 70.000 tons of sugar
yearly to this country. He clid not think it was an easy
task to decide what were military stations and what
were colonies proper. By a return ordered on the mo-
tion of the Hon. Member for Northampton, the House
would find in detail the military expenditure of this
country in reference to our colonies, giving the gross
expenditure for five years. Now ho found that the gross
annual expenditure, according to that return, which, he
admitted, might not include the whole expenditure—
but a small addition might be made to it—by this return
he found that the gross estimate of the colonial expen-
diture for all our colonies was only 1,9,18,4711. yearly.
—([rear, hear.) They were, according to the position
laid down by his Lion. Friend, entitled to deduct from
the general sum the cost of their military stations, be-
cause his Hon. Friend did not propose to reduce the ex-
penditure at these stations.—(Hear.) Nov, he did not
mean to say that their establishments were what they
ought to be; true, he might assume that a military ex-
penditure was necessary for the maintenance of the em-
pire at large—and, even so assuming, yet declare that
it wan capable of reduction, and even of expressing
the hope that it might be reduced.—(Hear, hear, and
cheers.) He did not mean to say that as far as these
colonies were concerned they were incapable of
having the military expenditure upon them reduced.
The fact was otherwise—for a paper that bad been laid
on the table of the House the previous day, showed that
a reduction was contemplated.—(Bear, hear.) Taking
the figures, however, as they had been stated, these mili-
tary stations cost 552;000/.; their convict stations
71,0001.—making a total of 623,0001., which might be
deducted from the 1,948,0001., and it was over the re-
maining balance that the Hon. Baronet would exercise
control.—(hear.) He wished now to call the attention
of the House for a moment or two to those colonies
which, not being military or convict stations, they were,
according to the propositions of the Hon. Baronet, to
abandon altogether, because, they wero to remember,
these were the words of the Hon. Baronet's resolutions:—
" I. That it is the opinion of this House that steps
should be taken to relieve this country, as speedily as
possible, from its present civil and military expenditure
on account of the colonies, with the exception of its ex-
penditure on account of military stations or convict set-

Clements.
2. That it is expedient, et the same time, to give to
the inhabitants of the colonies which are neither mili-
tary stations nor convict settlements ample powers for
their local self-government, and to free teem from that
Imperial interference with their affairs which is insepa-
reble from their present militery occupation."
It followed, from these propositions of the Hon. Baronet,
that all their colonies, not being convict or military,
stations, and having a military force within their boun-
daries, were to be abandoned.--(Hear.) He thought
that tho speech of his Hon. Friend, so full as it was of
details, served to show that he dwelt too much oa those
details as an economist, and that his doing so
.had pre-
vented his giving a duo appreciation to that polls}' which
it became a great monarchy to maintain ands great
empire to pursue. The consequences of the policy of
his Hon. Friend, he believed, would be found very fatal,
and such as the people of this country would not approve
of. The colonies would have to be abandoned—it would
be declaring them independent of this country—it would
lead to their separation from the mother country; there
would be no longer any tie between the eoloaies and
the mother country but their reciprocal interests, and
it would be free for any other country to bid against
England with the colony for that interest. The re-
sult, then, of the policy of the Hon. Baronet would be
this—and in saying so, he did not at all exaggarate the
consequences—it would be the abandonment of the far
greater portion of their colonial empire.—(Llear.) Now
he believed that neither their merchants nor their traders
were prepared to take that stop.—(Hear.) Wfy, it was
but that very day that his Noble Friend had presented a
petition from almost every merchant at the Cape, pray-
ing for the assistance of this country in the war in which
they were engaged. Let them but adopt the proposition
of his Hon. Friend, and they must part with their West
Indian colonies—Jamaica, Trinidad, Guiana must be
alike lost to them, with Australia and New Zealand;
they must float away on the world for any strange power
that chose to take them; and he believed that it would
not be long, once they had been abandoned by this
country, before they would fall under the dominion of
some other power.—(Hear.) His lion. Friend had said that
if they left to those colonies local selt-government—that
if they freed them from Imperial control, the colonies
would undertake their own defence, and to that defence
they might be safely left. He (Mr. Hawes) dissented
altogether from that proposition. He knew that his
Hon. Friend connected together as if they were inse-
parable from eech other local self-government and the
distribution of their military force; as if there were, no
self-government where there was military force, and
that there was self-government where there was an ab-
sence of military force. Such was not the true state of
things. In point of fact ho could show that in a colony
where there was the largest power of self-government
there was a large military force, and he mid point to
another colony—a Crown colony—a colony governed,
as it was said, by the Colonial-office, whore there was
a very small military force. Let them take, for instance,
the case of Jamaica. There was the fullest power of
self-government, and yet there were 1,400 of their mi-
litary ; and, on the other hand, there was Trinidad that
had not self-government with only 300 mer. Let them
run through their colonies, and they would find there
was no connexion between local self-government and
the maintenance of a military.—(Hear, hear.) Take
two colonies adjoining each other—Nova Scotia and
New Brunswick. They had at Nova Scctit a military
station, and New Brunswick was not so. Let them take
the case of New Zealand and compare it with South
Australia. New Zealand had from fifteen to sixteen
hundred men, and Australia had but sixty-fivo men.
Whether a force were paid out of Imperial resources or
the colonial funds, still, in case of necessity. the colony
would look to relief and protection from the Imperial
Government. Thus in New Zealand they had a largo
native population, end there, therefore, thee must have
a large military force. From that expens; they could
not escape; and he doubted much whether the mother
country would save much by adopting the Hoe. Baronet's
proposition. Let them take the case of tie Cape. If
they granted it local self-government, and dd not inter-
fere with the administration of its affairs, Ind yet, if a
war broke out with the Kafirs, his
,Hon. Iriend would
give them a large sum of money to maintain the ex-
penses of the war.
Sir W. MOLESWORTII—No, no.
Mr. HAWES—He understood from the lon. Baronet
that in such a case he would not abandon ,he colony to
its own resources. He gathered, from abet his lion.
Friend had said, that he saw the contingency before
him, and that he discerned this fact, that they could
not separate the commercial interest! of British
subjects here from those of British subjects in
their colonies. The time, then, would come, when
they would have to answer this question—would they
assist the colony when it was placed in dtfieulties? And
he was sure the country would readily give its assent
to do so, and thus the policy of the Hon. Saronet would
involve them in a heavier expense thant what was in-
curred under the present system.—(Hear, hear.) But
sunposing the recommendations of the Ern. Baronet to
be.adopted, he assumed that the intercourse between the
mother country and the colony would be as beneficial
as it was at present. Experience served to show that
assertion was not sustainable in fact. Letthem take the
case of the United States of America, wiich had once
been colonies of the British empire. ;low that the
United States were separated from this country, the
British merchant, before he could bring hs goods into
one of their ports, had to pass through protecting duties
of 25 per cent.—(Hear, hear)—whilst in very colony
that belonged to the British empire he hal a friendly
port open to him. The vote, he said, was ai important
coasideration for them, because many of hese colonies
were trying to impose a protecting tariff,and if they
were independent of this country they woud have their
trade interfered with. It might be sad that these
duties would be paid by the consuners in the
colonies. There could be no doubt tha such would
be the case, but in proportion as thee protective
duties wore high their power to purchase vould be im-
paired; and thus they would have an incretse of taxation
in another shape, even though they mightget rid of the
cost of an immediate expenditure, whichthe Hon. Ba-
ronet desired.—(Hear, hear.) It was notsn mere com-
mercial and pecuniary grounds alone that le opposed the
motion of the Hon. Baronet; and taking ip these other
grounds led him to refer to the Cape of Good Hope.—
(Hear, hear.) When they took possessioa of the Cape
of Good Hope they found that it was a Prssession that
extended 400 miles inland, and they took it with the
obligation to protect the white populetten sere, and also
to protect the coloured population. Now, ;hey could not
withdraw Imperial control from that celery without en-
dangering the safety of the colony. They hid not, he said,
the power to throw away the oblighttonsthey had con-
tracted. His Hon. Friend had mentioned ;hat he had on
this occasion made the observations he intended to have
offered to the House on an amendment of which he had
given notice, on the motion of the Noble Lord (Lord J.
Russell); and this induced him (41.411 e-es) to refer
more particularly to what bad been saiclon the subject
by the Hon. Bsronet.—(ilear, bear.) 'Fie Hon , Baro-
net had spoken of their " frontier policy" at the Cape of
Good Hope. His Hon. Friend bad bean eicreetly silent
as to his significations of a "frontier pstoyh, but he
threw ridicule upon their extending their enpire. Now,
he (lir. Hawes) did net know of a singlt governor of
eminence who had not recommended exestly the same
policy which Sir Hurry Smith had follower, It was the
policy recommended by Sir B. IYthoan. But then, it
it was said that pokey had failed; bit he denied
that it had failed. Ia 1820 that House pled a large
sum of money for the purpose of sending )ut emigrants

to plant on their frontier; and one of the most promi-
nent in recommending that measure was the Honour-
able Member for Montrose, who urged them to in-
crease the number of their emigrants. That, then, was
their policy, and they had thus incurred en obligation
to protect these emigrants. When the Dutch had that
colony their system was to allow the Dutch settlers
to raise a military force themselves, to proclaim war
against the natives when they chose, and to carry it
on with all those blood-stained incidents with which
such a war was sure to be accompanied. That system
England indignantly rejected. They determined that
a regular military force should take the place of such
a volunteer force ; but they soon found that the
frontier chosen by Lord Charles Somerset in 1820 was
badly chosen as a defensive frontier. Part of the ar-
rangement then made was to extend the frontier from
the Fish River to Keiskamna. Sir B. D'Urban, Sir H.
Pottinger (a most valuable governor), and Sir H. Smith
all concurred in this policy, and its value was proved by
what had recently occurred, for the Kafirs, alarmed at
the idea of having forts behind them, had not in their
incursions caused anything like the mischief or loss of
life that had occurred on similar occasions hitherto. It
was said that Sir H. Smith had been taken by surprise,
but he referred to a paragraph in a letter of Sir Harry
Smith to which the Hon. Baronet had not alluded, and
in that letter, da'ed 20th December, p. 64, and paragraph
6, showed that Sir H. Smith, though he conceived that
peace had been established, had yet resolved not upon
disbanding the troops until he was convinced that general
tranquillity had been established. In reference to Sir
H. Smith, he could not avoid saying, that as en absent
man, as an officer, and as a governor, he thought this
was not the fitting time to cast ridicule upon him.—
(Cheers.) He did assure the Hon. Baronet that what
was said in that House had a considerable effect out of
it, and that Hon. Members ought sometimes to feel
more responsibility then was generally evinced by them,
when they passed their censulea upon absent individuals.
—(Cheers.) But the Hon. Baronet passed to Natal, and
said that there they came in contact with a naval force
that was bold and terrible. Ho admitted that they were
a very brave people, and he had to add that they
were now marching to the aid of Sir Harry Smith. In
that colony they had nearly 100,000 natives under
British dominion, and they were very civilised, for they
paid taxes very weil—(Laughter)—and they preferred
direct taxes, for they paid a house tax.—(Laughter.)
That colony was managed very well, but then they were
told a great deal about the Boers. Now the first cause
of the alienation of the Boors was, that the British Go-
vernment would not allow them to proclaim war against
the native tribes ; and a great cause of dissatisfaction
with them was the abolition of slavery, as they said
they could not carry on their agricultural labour with-
out slaves.—(Hear.) As to the convict question at the
Cape, it was sufficient to say of it, that those who agi-
tated against it well knew that it was never intended to
make the Cape a convict settlement, and those who
had taught others to despite authority, were now
reaping the bitter fruits of their own treachery.
The proposition of the Hon. Baronet amounted to this,
it was that they should save 1,200,000/. and part with
their colonial empire. The simple question then was
this—was their colonial empire worth 1,200,0001.? They
must not calculate the value of their colonial trade by
simple exports and imports from this country with the
colonies. In doing that the Hon. Baronet took no notice
of their shipping, and the amount of capital and interests
involved in their inter-colonial trade—in their trade be-
tween colony and colony. Of these things the Hon.
Baronet took no notice at all. It was as if he were to
take the total expenditure of the Great Western and
North-Western Railway, and then only look to
what goods were sent from Euston-square and
Paddington, without taking any notice of what
was sent from the other stations along their lines.
Such was the Honourable Baronet's mode of giving
them the value of their colonies by merely taking into
his account their colonial exports.—(Cries of " Hear,
hoar.") He was quite sure, then, that the policy
of the Honourable Baronet was not one the House
was prepared to adopt.—(Hear, hear.) He found by
papers which were then before him, that the estimates
had been gradually reduced from a sum of about
226,0001. when the present Government came into office,
to an annual vote of 180,0001. His Hon. Friend (Sir
W. Moiesworth) had alluded to the subject of reducing
the number of troops in New South Wales. Might he
refer his Hon. Friend to the papers which had been cir-
culated that morning showing the intentions of his
Noble Friend (Earl Grey) as to the further reduction
of the military force in the colonies, and he could assure
the Hon. Baronet that if there were a reasonable or
practicable reduction to be made, no man would ho
more anxious to effect it than his Noble Friend. He
trusted, then, that the House would not follow the Hon.
Baronet's advice, but support him (Mr. Hawes) in the
course he felt bound to pursue, by moving the " pre-
vious question," as the only way in which he could show
that the motion was met in a kindly spirit, and that
the Government were prepared to reduce the Colonial
expenditure to the lowest point that it could be reduced
consistently with the honour of the country.—(Hear.)
Mr. ADDERLEY complained that the Under-Secre-
tary for the Colonies had gone out of his way to allude
to the convict question, and to throw the blame of the
irritation at the Cape, not on those who attempted to
make the Cape a convict station, but on those who re-
sisted the attempt. As the subject of the Kafir war
should be fully gone into by the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government, he thought the most advisable course
to adopt would be to divide at once on the question be-
fore the House, and discuss the subject of the Kafir war
separately. The motion of the Hon. Baronet was, in
point of fact, to reduce the military expenditure of the
colonies, and to give them the powers and advantages
of local self• government. This proposition was charac-
terised by the Under-Secretary fur the Colonies as
neither more nor less than abandonment of the colonies.
In a recent dispatch from the Noble Lord at the head of
the Colonial Department to Lord Elgin—a dispatch
bearing date ,March 11—the withdrawal of a largo
number of troops from Canada was directed, and the
handing over of the civil estimates to the considera-
tion of the local Legislature suggested. Why
should the principle be carried out with regard to the
largest and most powerful colonies, and yet be denied in
the case of smaller colonies? The policy proposed by
the Hon. Baronet the Member for Southwark was one in
its very nature calculated to avoid an abandonment of
the colonies. That policy was based on broad, sound
principles. The entire subject presented itself' under a
double aspect; first, as a qestion of retrenchment, and,
secondly, as a general colonial question. When the
question of protection occurred to him, he felt he con-
fessed mortified that so few of its professors had mani-
fested any sympathy in the cause of retrenchment, which
they had undertaken to support. Protectionist Members,
though they had told the farmers that protection was a
lost battle, and had taught them not to look forward to a
return to it, still they had promised to do their utmost in
procuring a retrenchment. There was a noble oppor-
tunity for them. But whether this expenditure was
to be discountenanced or not, by the effect of the divi-
sion on this motion, the country had long since decided
against, and would not much longer tolerate it. Though
it had borne it long and patiently, the time had come
when, in a moment of irritation, it would throw it off,
and repudiate along with it the whole of their colonial
system. The only way in which such a calamity was to
be avoided was, by at once establishing a colonial sys-
tem of government on sound principles, while it was
still in their power to deal with the subject calmly, and
upon a full knowledge of facts. They must, before long,
come to an understanding with the colonies, and lay down
a definite policy respecting them. He (Mr. Adderley)
maintained that they could not deal with this important
subject by agreeing to the previous question. At the
very moment when the surplus was to be handed over to
the commissaries to defray the expenses of the war
had they not constituencies at home that might be glad
to share it? But the fact was, that there would always
be a Kafir war to swallow up any surplus that might
occur. It was, in fact, a mere mockery of the coun-
try to be talking of the surplus at its disposal, when,
in fact, its application was anticipated. Far better
would be to have ship-money, or benevolences, or
any the contrivances of former times, • than to
bo thus deluded with the pretence of a consti-
tutional taxation and expenditure. We had all the
practical tyranny of a despotism, and all the trouble of a
democracy, united at present in our existing system of
Government. lie did not hesitate to say that they might
use the words which were used in that House in the
reign of Henry the Eighth, when he sent Cardinal Wol-
soy to demand a benevolence. The words which were
used on that occasion by a Member were worthy of be-
ing remembered. They were these—" If our money is
to be taken by a commission, we shall be taxed like
France, our taxes will be farmed, and this country will
be bound, and no longer free."—(Hear, hear.) He had
no sympathy with those who looked on the colonies
merely as a pecuniary question. He might refer in sup-
port of his own view of the subject, to some remarkable
words which occurred in a letter, written by Mr.
Godley to Mr. Bagster, while expressing his opinion
that we should feel the loss of a colony less than
that constant loss which a colony was made
to produce by extravagance and migovernment.
His words were—" When the Roman legions drew
within the line of the Danube, it was not the loss
of the province of Dacia, but the satisfcction of the
Roman people at the loss, which was so ominous of the
spirit of the times." And in speaking of the loss of
our American colonies, he said disastrous as it was We
suffered less loss of prestige and of strength, than er
should have done had we retained them. He never
looked upon this subject as a
pecuniary question; but
could not avoid seeing that this expenditure of 3,000,0001.
or 4,000,0001. a year was not only of our areproach to our-
selves, but that it actually crippled the commerce
colonies, and paralysed the enterprise of spoke
here,colon colonists.
It was not the voice of economy that
that of patriotism. The Hon.
ißoaroofneeotlognrioaulnmdeidlitahriys
observations on the principal
ntteh de outCa toe
expenditure, and he proved thattpothis caseofroefductionof
military expenditure applied to five groups colonies,
viz., the North American, th
the Australian, and New zeealalnVde.st
Ho pointed
those cases
the House that in every one of those the military ex-
penditure of England alone was equal in
to the whole revenue of the colony—except in one case,
where, in the north part of New Zealand, it was six
times the amount, and the military forces exceeded
the adult male population. The Under Secretary for
the Colonies made, for an only answer to this,
expenditureabandon
th e
colonies, w as
ornecessary,
maintain
it. The co-
lonies, and that
thatl,,we
must
otsht
abalonies, he said, were taken possession of by us on that
faith, and in good faith we should adhere to it. In
°n
contradiction to this statement he had this to urge, that
this expenditure, burdensome as it was to this country,
and hateful as it was to us, was even more deeply hated
by and injurious to our colonists. In New Zealand there
was a new association formed of all the householders,
which called itself the Constitutional Assembly, and
which sat side by side with that of the local Government.
That body seemed to have a greater command of infor-
mation, and had certainly more of the sympathy of the