The Sun.
London, England, 1834-04-22 00:00:00

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. ..
I. :and thelOtherlyavtb4 oath of allegianee.f .111(17S1101116 irk
_ have. troubled their lordshim Mon this. ,point bad it; nOt
beenior'What hadliltf*frecte h. for mei* `tit'easiOn.. - 'lt' had
_been argued tbat;_untihtlio.seign. of Jautes.l.ildipsetiter
had been admitted. Now, from 1614 to the present timo
was 220 years ; a period so long that he might 'rest -satisL
• -fied almost with the case as -it thus stood—here being a
precedent of up‘vards of two centuries in its faVour. If
the university had, during 226 years, '-se existed as to- the
laws which regulated,it,. and during these 220 years no
'complaints hid been urged nor evils felt, ind'fram that pe.
rind. there had been educated within its walls so ma.ny-emi- •
neat men in science and religion,----in science no .man had
reached the summit attained by Sir" Isaag Newton--and so •
many members from -thit university had adorned that right ,
rev... bench, if during all this long period such had been
the regulations and . such the -effect, he (the Duke of
Gloucester) really saw no necessity whatever for any :al-
teration such as that prayed by the petitioners, whose -
' petition had been previously laid upon their lordships'
table.. If dissenters were to . obtain, degrees at the
university in the way they sought, then indeed would
the whOle system of reification follow. (Hear.). Nay, he
really knew not, to what results it, might lead, for it might
uhimately affect the stability Orthe throne itself. (Hear, -
bear.)- - [So we understood the illustrious duke, but he
spoke -occasionally in so low a tone of voice that much ,of
what lie said waS not heard in the gallery. 1 If dissenter -
-were -permitted to make suchan inroad, might not -Unita:-
Jians, or Jews, or 3lahometa.ns, became Professors ? He
admitted, hoiveyer, the dissenters- to be a respectable body'
of men; _but be.denied.that they composed the niajority. of -
the nation ; for the great majority of the people was of the
established church. If, 'however,- dissenters were allowed
atieelairasthiy,iiiacie, it would_be-;ni vain to, expect that,
those who wished to send their sons to be educated in
P'eliurch- 'of'' England piinetples, could scarcely rely that
-tineh principles,
,andtinothers, would now be followed by
them. Who could say what would be the consequence of,
'admitting dissenters in the manner they wished ? ,-' Wonld
theyeontent.thernselves with what they now asked?. He
.had given' his cote in faVOur' Of the Catholic Relief Bill,
by; which bill•noble lords in that house, and hon. members_
in the other, had seats. Would those noble lords and
lion:'"gentleinen have tolerated the measure; if they had
been restricted to having.. seats in both Houses of Puha-,
ment, if they had not been permitted to accept of - office ?-
(Hear.) Had a`case- been made out in which the Legii--
Ixture. ougbt..te.t!,interfere, with regard to ,the .restrictions
,affecting dissenters ? He thoug no such. saSe had been
aeitahliSheal"lii-the name of theht uniVersity; of which he
had had the honour of being for,Awenty7;three- years Chan-
cellor--in the name .of. the_university which had rendered
such. important service to the general education of the Bri--
tish youth--in the name of the university Which had for
more than two centuries sent forth so many eminent men
who had adorned that ttiAit- Rev. Bench, and had swelled,
Rig
lit.
list of Men-Of science—in the name of that -university
in which were. taught the, Divine doctrines upon which
our coniolationhere, and the,
hopes hereafter, rested, ho
called upon their lordships not to sanction any alteration of
the system Which had placed, the university on the 'proud
eminence upon Wliccli'itstifid. --(Hear; . hear. )' Ile had
another petitidr4 also,i to present tro'..the.-same effect, signed
is 735 boarders and tinder-graduates oot. of 1,100; and, if
time hadbeengiven,intilie would have'sigtied.the-ptitionl
which he new moved to:be read.

that
IT,lihee.ppetaitkieonotfca then reeEadsaTtEle,angstihidlibyintlinie c;\lienrgk.,,
;he petition do lie upodthe tablg.' be wishedt6add that it
contained the signatures of eleven heads of houses, of eight.
pr:OfesSOrs;'-andAtiiiity-nine titters. - - • .
The TetrissiejOts..Dux *npresented the petition of
'the bachelors' and under-graduates, Which was likewise,
read it length. -i, : ' r- : -. • . ._, •
: Earl GREY :said the view which -he .took on the very
. . •
important subject now againintroduced,when he lastad-
'dressed- their-lordships On presenting the .petition alluded.
to brtheillustrious duke, he .(Eerl Grey:on that occa-•
'siOn addressed their lordships at Sortie length'ill support of
. , ..
IthAtiview, rand it was.nothisintention An: enter:into any
~argument upon the present occasion. The subject,-,Was,
as the illUstrions duke 'had asserted, one of fiery great ini,
portance to the public, and of still greater- inaportanbe- as
respected the -interests of the- university, as the petition=
reconireended 41 yery- differenciiedutse frosts- thatp recora-
mended by-the preceding: petition. Probably a further
occasion-would. arise when the subject would . be dis-
cussed,
and for that period `he should reserve himself, ,
Nevertheless, ,he felt hiniSeff called .upon- in justice to
state, with respect to those eminent persons, who hact
'signPdl t4a--:-IYFtition, and particularly as it, was- I'm-
pnte.cl-,;t0," him by the . illustrionS- duke, - that the result`
of 24.7elject wnich they had in view would be 'far-.
difteient rioin what they themselves imagined. The
object of their application, :their lordships would' re-,
collect, was that, dissenters should be allowed the pri-
vileges- and degree'of baehelors of arts,' masters of arts;
and., medical . :0.-pe..s,:"..Witheilt.. being ;subject to any re--
strietions onaceonnt'Of religions tests,Nothing beyond
._ ~.. ..,
this did-those petitioners ask ; theYthinight that in Making
this application it would, if complied with, be attended'
with beneficial consequences ; and could -it be imagined
that these professors and - tutors; 'who had so deep an' in.:
terest. in the stability of the establishment, who- were
bMirid-to -it- by opinion, bound -by interest, bin more-em-
phatically _ bound by-duty—that- they would recommend
.any:thing which Should- tend to weaken -or impair that.
-institution ? All that'VtiS asked was that the disienters
should have the Tights which the university grantedtti,the
otheimembers, after being admitted,- and after having
studied the accustomed period within its walls, he ' meant
the
In-
asking degreesfor tlitaot lv:hch he had alreadyeeionldconfidentlysa madey,tliat llu
the petitioners
oners
hi de-
gree nothingfurther
injure
from their i
ordisturb
ththe
religiousntentions -
ptrhainnciipi -any
lles u
ponwhich the establishment was -instituted. Having said this
-he trusted that he had removed the impressions -which
some passages in the. speech of- the- illuStrious duke 'were
calculated to make, as ren-arded the firmer petition., Fur-
ther into the argument he (Earl Grey) `would not advance,
but he would reserve himself- for another opportunity of
going into the general question. But - there were 'other'
points- -connected With the present petition which it-was-
necessary for him to- say one or two words upon:-,- The
illUstrious' duke had correctly-stated, with that Candour
and fairness to be expected Of him, the numbers that signed
the petition; "now" resident, meaning resident -at the
time of'- the petition being signed—the number being' two
'hundred anti fifty-eight; and that-the Other petition was
sinned by 63 resident mernberS of the Senate. In the first
-place; the ilhistrienia duke had truly asserted that the pet
tion was signed by the petitioners then assembled-at-Cam,
bridge, as members of thegeriate; but he did nottherefore
Mean to represent them is riksident members, for the nurn--,
ber'exeeidedthe resident members. . He (Earl Grey) had
been told that great pains had been used With 'a-'view of
passing the grace which wia,proposed, and members were
colleetO togethet for that puspose ; and therefore it was a,
matter of no surprise that the- petition should have been
signekljn so shbrt a space as that named: But if the per
tition were analysed, it would be found in reality to be
signed by only about 193 members, who were properly re:-
sident at the university. -Now,- of the first petition signed
by 63 all were residents, and seven more were friendly to
it who did riot sign it, and about',ls. perfectly neutral, so
that the number might he increased from 63 to 70, as
signing, or friendly-to it, ' and with the 15 neutral the
number would. be 'B5. Now he would take the number as.
108 who-had signed the present petition who could net be
said- to be resident ; and, if that number were deducted
from ,193, it would rechice it to 85. Their lordships would
therefore perceive that this was not a very large compara-
tive majority over those who had -signed the preceding one,
'especially when to that number who had signed the latter
were added the numbers of those friendly to it,,orneutral..
'lt w as far -from his wish to enter into any invidioist
comparison, and he believed that the illustrious 'duke:
would - not. deny that there were names among theie,
who had :signed the first petition, who, by their
knowledge, their, moral character, . and • their. abilities,
.bUt, above all, in their love for the established church,
yielded to no one. (Hear, hear, from the Duke 'of
Gloucester.), Was -it to be believed that persons' of that
deieription, in the situations which they filled, influenced,
too,_ by the interests which naturally attached them to the
stability of the institutions, thought that when they-were
signing the petition they were doing that which would
tend to -Create -the' mischiervehich the illustrious duke
ascribed? Was it to be believed that they could sign a pe-•
tition, which, if the were carried into effect, would
go to destroy, not, only the principles upon which the esta-
blished church rested; but subvert the throne itself ? He
(Earl GreY) could not come to any such concluSion. He had
been anxious to state something in vindication of the other.
petition which he had presented, and had 'already said more
than he intended, but the importance of the subject must
be'hiS apology. He should content-himself, on the present
,occasion, :without .detaining their lordships longer, in re-
.ferring to the opinions which lie had so recently urged
-opinions which he had seen -no reason to change--and,,
from his conscience, he firmly believed; that if the prayer
of that petitiOn. were granted, instead of injuring the esta-
blished church, -it was calculated to remove the prejudices.
which existed, to destroy the animosities and heart-burn-
ings which ' prevailed, and by so doing it Would give
strength to.that church which it was his most anxious wish-
to preserve. (Hear, hear. )
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he could not avoid
noticing some of the observitiOns which had fallen from
the noble earl. The noble earl had said that the prayer
of the petition was not to give the power to the diSsenters
which was stated in- thepetition, which had been presented :
by the illstrious duke who had -preceded him, but that its
only object was -to remove from the dissenters those dis-
abilities under which they now laboured in not being 'able
to acquire degrees, and the other advantages in entering
into the legal or medical professions.. Such he (the Duke 1
of Wellington) admitted was the apparent object (Loud
cheers, from the opposition side) ; but the noble earl had
'eqpi out of sight one circumstance of most material import,
namely, that when those persons should have obtained
degrees they would necessarily become governors of those .
corporations, and be in precisely that- state which the
noble earl had said was a state in- which they ought not to
be ; for they would be the educators of the youth of the
country. The petition presented' by the . noble earl, on
,tl,w 4.44..Mare1i, . prayed that, certain, advantages
be placed within tiltfßasii stf_ithy Aiclttep
.1)... adinit'.J
..
might
i

...t..i11k&h,091.,.. ilotlf_esit/iAlPliticiiibut-L4giv.V to is '3tr.o
innind, that,there were other modes for their obtaining
IN-Cie,. advatiiiiteiliviiiiikti'4iaving -'Basing ziriost
_objectionable,.!!,m(Hear,•hear)* for ;objectionable it was,
„even in the 6-Pinion of the noble earl himself; inasmuch as it
l!iviulti give thete persons that according to the noble.
• earl they, ought,not to have,--the government of the uni-
versifies. '(lfe-drt hear.) That was a measiire; however,
..ii hich woulditereafter come under discussien, and he could
1, not therefore enter upon it then further than to say, that
if such a' measure should be adopted by their' lordships,
,which God forbid: (Hear, hear) they must take leave of
' that object which the noble earl was so anxious to sus-
'tain,the union-bet Ween Church - arriff,State, and- even,
perhapa; the very existence of Christianity itself.- (Hear,
hear.) 0-n these grounds he should support the prayer of
the petition. - --;;;--', .. • , _ - ...
, The 1-0111) CHANCELLOR, said he felt jointly with
his:noble- friend .di 'the head of the 'Government, and Akit4
the noble duke who hail just sat down, how much . inure
-convenient it would be to abstain from,discussing the ques-
tion Until- another opportunity—an opportunity which he
believed and' hoped would be speedily given. by having a
measure sent up to them fpr consideration from the:ether
lionSe of Parliament. 'lt Would then come before them in a
I:tangible-form, ,and.until then he would have preferred.fol-
levon&the example of the noble
_duke and of the illus.
`tribittAltike'ilso, -who had presented the petition anti stated
Mr sentiments thereon, if
,he w4mhi permit him to say
so, with a degree of:ability, distinct ness, - and-impressive-
Iness, not tii be sin-passed. -- Btit there n'Vere- one- or 4Wolof
'the subjects.tonched,Up,on,whigh he egidduntsuffer tppass
=without. a few observations,: and- be cfniTd '. assure their
:-liiiiiShiPs thatibeiiiOnlcl 'Confine !himself' tic; "the fewest
"observations possible.;.., In, theifirst,xlacei,,,he approved ;of
l'ilie' one line of argumetif"adOpt4bYthenoble duke (Web.
lington), and', also liyi th&jilluStriOuPtiuke'(`Glotieester),
. He alluded to that winch they, Fling, cOnsistyntly. with
w their avoed:Opiniens.;emea to; Pul,S.Torfli; as-it sort of
lertiunt quid}' for: although loth' cl, the lioble'dukesiVere
soldiers,
,yet,they well understood' the logical expression,
which he need-not, therefOre; ' "apologise :for using. 'The
third, or middle course, • appeared therefore to,oecupy.their
attention, which could not fail to have amost
,peculiar rer
commendation;'proceeding, as it did; from 'tfibse;'who held
Suchhigh situations in the universities.,.) Tim j4.lfi said,
why visit the, punishment upon the parties who were not,
the offenders,- part ieularlY-- as there were ether
_Modes -fir
the ihssenters to attain--their: objects, without resorting
to the abolishing of the subscription to the '39: articles at
the uniVersities? : The explanation ~t . the illustrious:duke
.was.tbis,thatithere were other modes of obtaining degrees
*Without tiding away withilie sithSesriptiiii; 'that there Were
=other meitatifebtaining the degreek: of 'doctor.of law's, and
other means, of obtaining medical ~degrees, besides obtain-
ing Iliein `thibitgli the universities, which could only be
.donely.rneans of subscription to. the 39 articles.. ;In other
Words' . the meaning of the illustrious duke, and also of the
-noble duke; was thisL—that-Power should be given to others _
OM .ther_universities:. of; oxford_ and Cambridge,: to-..eonfer
degrees,. (" No, no," from the opposition side.) .He could
draw; nOcbtixteil'inference from what-had-ww from the il-
Instriptis, guk,e.S.: .- (lzleari. hear. ) 'That w_ textbefore
them—.(Hear, hear )—and ' such was tbe -glOis which ''
ins ' hthehlei,ra'Cultie.s. perinittedtitini ,'Lio 'ptit.-;-Upoti •it.
(lIe042: and a - laugh. ) If other,more ree.ortdit! ,per-
sons could,i- li disc Over aother -,lrieariifig-:-if ' -their 'could
penetrate:l4pm'; :than hiniSelf; and ,:sc‘areh outiL-a-,ilit--
ferent interpretation, he .should be .glad to hear it; . but.
in the- niearitiine he Was `'Confident--that he 'rightly,-_
miderStPOd the.::illuStriotis dulte,4` for (saitthe).,tvlrytgic to
:the, nniyersities `;', , , Why nof, go to, Rif college of T
ail hysl-
`s; 'and cemilPA`*theiii-io- giVe'tiegreeS 1-i"---ritedicitie?"
4h3r,' stbis.:Was_ the 'TYC6jpoirtt which
.was sought to be.,at-
tained by the London University. ( Hear= hear.) The pe-
tition a •thatiiiiive,iiity had been already' plaeedlbefore his
.A.lajesti; ',Nvhcrhad.".heen,,,raeieusly pleaSed'to order it 'tobe
laid before his privy council, by Whom it would . ere- icing
he 'taken)-into' consideration: Their linctiltips,- hOWeVer,
had the authority that night of the moblelord and also that
of the illustrious diike;.anil he (Lard IliOngliarii )'also _ad-
mitted 'the; fietlthaf the two petitienitO be laithbefote-the
privy- council were not consistent with this ,better and
sounder View (if the, ease. (Hear, hear. ) He quite agreed
with the View-taken by the illustrious .duke, if' he correctly
:understood that view, and, understand it he must halie
dene earrectly for,, if not, 'let their lordships' mark the
gross the.scaridalous, amid. unreasonable situation in which
the universities placed,,themselves,• if they,. hold forth,. to
theilfs'Se'nterS-that theY'-will not give- thern'degrees- as
doctiirsl of lawl qr. medicine, mid yet that.ztheyjwillj not
allow, tlicm,t,p_ggt those degrees elsewhere. (I/ear, hear• 4).
It- wa: -not in 'the 'Peiiii4.Of min to diViner:falythifig,, More'
shameful, unreasonable, or disgrattful,,en_ the part of the;
universities, . than for them to say to -tlie 'tlissefiters,.
a.:-We'fia've +tie pOVier of making you:doctors of :Medicine,
but We will not, because you do, natl.:worship- God as .we
do, nor will we consent that thosetit the seine per,tta-
-iion as yourselVeishalrliavis the:Om:niter of conferring upon
,you the -..neee.ssary, degrees. ' Those who, would.:,beVc-
the iiewe; tiiiive yon degrees shall not obtain that peyver,
lincl,weilib hive the power will not grant .-.:yott what --yeti
desire!.' (Hear, hear. ) This was the very height and
acltie-, of injustice; and -of Collegiate Monopoly: (Heat,
hear.) For :his (Aviv; part, he venerated : those ancient
establishments. He had not had the advantage of drink.ing
of the fountains-Of 'Science within their-walls;` lie--:ha4
'Studied, as far as he: was enoMede....o4 of those :walls-;:..ft'Vt'
,that very circumstance had led him to regard'With.a still
More friendly attachment 'establiShinents-which had -such
.strong_clairus upon_ the scientific world. He would just
remind the house that ,the greatest man who hid:ever
-minened-therhuman firaine—he Meant the. greatiNewton--:
_was not a demonstrative proof of the propriety of subscrip-
tion.. tie had entered at atiine`Wilen-it'ikas "tinlikelk that
subscription could:have been thought very requisite,:i Be'
was born in the_ year 1641. or 164:4, and, supposing thin to
be 17 years of age when he entered' the university, that
would'biing his matriculation to the'peried ofthe Corintion::
wealth—a period when it could scarcely be suppOsed• that
the thirty-nine articles ve.re held-in• any great degree i'of
reverence. (Hear..) His (Lord .
Brougham's) reverence
.., none .
for the universities'
,) ieldoci tu that of unt. of those wile
had been educated Within. their ~..walls--not, evew-as:.;ie-
;garde& their collegiate and university privileges thlit.
seive:,. The noble duke (Wellington) appeared. to think
;that it was ;of the question: to. allow its disisentets to
have our power, and he (Lord Brougham) supposed that
the Manner in which the noble duke thought -they-would
I hai-&power would be in the wr,:y of e ecclesiastical privileges
I and fellowships—the independent care of :the education of
yeilth, much clerical patronage; livings; arid:other eccle-
gastical preferments, which must come into the hands of
the dissenters if once admitted into the universities. • He
could' assure their lordships that while giving way to "such
" ,arguments; they .were straining at a gnat and swallqw,ing a
.camel. There was no fellow of a college ; there •Wisind.
'-eiAlege or university ;:there were no free ,eolleges posiess-
.-. in one half so much ecclesiastical . patronage as Was at-
,tac'he4 to the ()Mee which he hail then the-honour-to hold.
:He had the disposal. of .800 ,or . 900 livings; and. of 19. or
20
,stalls ; the appointment of a score of 'prebendaries and
of 800:or 900 rectors, out all this without even gubSeribing
=the' 39 articles. (Heir. ) : Ile would at least, speak for
himself, and would say that he hadnever subscribed tht)se
artieles. 'His predecessor had dune so; but not, as Chan,
eeller ; .he had..sobseribed to them. at .Cambridge. Lind
Erskine might have subscribed them, "but not as Cliatujel
tor, and Lord Lorighborotigh;ließbelieVed,,ltad never'sub-
seribed.to them. Lord Erskine WaS notoriously cif alp s-
byterian family, as stanch as any who had' eier signed ii,
envenant,.and ' it:was met-very. likely, therefore,. t hat ". that
nobleman would be a zealous advocate for the 39 articles.
It -was quite sufficientt-for his ptirpbse to remind their
lordships, that a. man. might be Lord Chancellor :and be also
a dissenter of any denomination. The law required no sub-
scription, no tesf; noeonformity from the.persim tilifieinied
AS. 'Lord Chancellor. , There was no occasion for,his being,
even a member of the established chinch. To affect
alarni, therefore;' beeause 'some half-dozen 'dissenters', in
the course of half a century, should be 'admitted to the
universities, anti because one dissenter in the same spaee of
time might be admitted as a fellow, and thus haVe a Vote
in meddling with or giving away church livings, ,while the
Lord 'Chancellor was allowed to deal wholesale with church,
patronage without any subscription at .all,- ,and :while - also•
:the) Chancellor of, Vle duchy 9c Lancaster and the Prime
Minister were allowed.to tiiipose'Of;ecelesiastical prefer-
ments ; to all of which situations dissenter S-were eligible,
—such alarm, he confessed, did appear to him to be a mostdisproportionate, Somewhat tinreaSenable; 'anti iiiconsisterit
degree of apprehension.,-( Hear, hear. ) For . his :4siin•
part,.he felt no alarm whatever.. lle thought it was for,
the best interests 'of tho'clnirch 'and of the universities'
also, that they. be founded in _the affections and con-.
fidenee of the country ; and, no course, he thought, could
be More certain of obtaining fer'therif the einifidenceof the
country than the wise and tolerant course which had so
nobly distinguished the administration of the noble ' duke
(Welling-ton). ' He' referred‘to, the 'example . which that
noble duke, had,. so happily 'for Ireland, and so meritorionslY-i
for hirnself, held out for future* itnitatieni ; ' and he trusted
that a shnilar spirit.of liberality would reign through. their-
lordships' councils when the measureshe adverted to -shOulc,
come betore then;.—((Hear, hear:) ' ' ' • • ' " '
The 'Linke of •WELLINGTON rose to explain:,;.!Thei,i
petition which the noble, and- learned, lord adverted to had
110.i-elation' whatever to the one 'before the house:-" The

noble' lord had argued that, if the :universities would not.
grant degrees to dissenters, they should enable some other
learned'body to do so. The universities would-have no
objection to .that---all they required being4hat- the yartiet
receiving such degrees should not 'l;ear the same title a§
those' who' took 'degrees froni the uniVeriities. In -other
words, the universities were anxious that,,there should be,
no fraud upon the public ; and if that could be prevented
they had no-o*;ection to cOncede-to them, tills the advantages'
of taking degrees either legal, of medical ; but they did.
object to their _having their privileges by taking- 'Ori • then
the names of the university degrees. -
The Bishop of LONDON concurred entirely. with his
noble and learned friend as to the inconvenience of enter-
ing at length into the discussion- of this subject upon That
occasion ; but still he
,could not resist the impulse-ta say
a few words,' because it might, perhaps, 'be considded fex-
traordinary if, on such' arr occasion; none of the right rev,
prelatesA that beneh•were to give an opiniOn.upon a sub-
ject necessarily interesting to the church. 'inked be Sliu
not think h.should be domi his (tali' If he _did not

a-word when the interests of the univereitieswere so deeply.
involved. He had a good understanding with most .•Of the;
-members of th-e.university of Ca,inhridge, and he hoped thet
irriiiiy 'natters concerning the church and' the dissenters
their lordships would net confel,!,ll i'',- vir)lent portion of the:
"dissenters e,h h the lai'ee',... bed:, . e ;;., . , elscientiouslysought.
relief. from. What they: conceive t to 1 e disabilities. , Ile
-believed- that a - large hods- , the dissenqe's • did not
concur in seeking adm:s,:on le 1:;e 11,, V ':,,1ii..,. (Cries of
Heir, hear.") He Would rot,lissen:t.la What he helieved
-to be the truth, that if churchmen and dissenters could be
educated together,' the greatest advantages might result.
There could be 'no fear that churchmen would become elis-
Senters, and he believed there might-be great expectationi
--that many dissenters would become chnichinen. If sonic
such plan 'could be brought into operation without Much-
-ing on- the privileges of the Universities in the way pro-
posed; 'which was nothing less than an infraction of the
rights, net only of the universities, but of every collegiate
body 4hich was connected' with them,. if some arrange-
irl'ent could be devised by which dissenters could be ad-
milted to academical instruction and- to professional dc-
.green, it would be desirable ;' but then the manner of car-
rying it into effect should be left to the universities theme
selves. There was no occasion whatever for Parliament to
interfere. Ilis chief difficulty was in throwing open the
doers. of the.'Universities altogether. It was stated that
many _dissenters had obtained academical. education,. and
indeed, he knew many -who. -were ornaments to so-
eiety, and, some few of whom became at last ornaments
to the established church: : As. 'hew, however, as
they .could enjoy the benefits of.. .collegiate instruc-
tion by- connivance or ;by consent, so long the
,difficulties which lie was apprehensive of Would not arise,"
but as soon as the right was given to them, Weis it ,to be
imagined that'sthey-worild'submit foeleat part-'6ll the disci-
Witte which related to religious instruction, unless it should
beehme so neutralized as teebe'eo longer deemed 'the reli-
gion of the established .clairch ? During the time he hod
been in his profession lie-had eo-operated with the Dissen-
ters in many works of benevolence, but never in that Of.
religious instruction, for in alreest every instance lie had'
known of co-operation between members of different
creeds in the task of instruction, the result had always beet:
that both had seceded froM -the task, dissatisfied with the
result of their eitertions. It- was inipossible to avoid con-
, troversial topics ; in-fact, every religious topic was contro-
versial, and it was-impossible to-steer clear of. them. In-
deed it was the duty-of a professor of- religion not to steer
clear of them, and in their lectureS it would be impossible
to steer clear of them. From this, moment : they should
give the dissenters the right, of admiSsion to the universi-
ties, from that moment-they -would-refire to -conform' to
academical discipline. (Hear, hear.y.He was son to hear
the universities spoken of as they hid recentlY ince, though.
he . was willing -to admit- that some change in their
_regulations .might.te—adoptesl_witb advantA_ge. ' A....great
improvement had taken place in , the
.universityeef Cami--
Lbridge,--or, .at least; 'in 'Trinity-. College at: Cambridge,
to which he belonged: - The greatest-pairsiwerr.-:-taken '
to impress upon- the -:s-tudetits Alie' necessity of adheii-
ing te;the religious. discipline which was strictly enforced.
As, soon, howiver, as- dissenters should be admiteed,• he
'`feared tilatThis discipline must be
,brokqh through. (Hear,"
hear. ) Upon'a future occasion he shehld-give his opinion
more' at length upon the'Subje'ete and de more ample justice
to those able istructreeses of the youth ofthe country. lie
was not prepared to consider every thing a grievance upchi
:theeelltsenters:which. tended tg•.exclude them from the en-
jeYment .; of_ benefits which _belonged
_exclusively to the-
Church of England, particularly when the object of the
-dissenters might be attained-by other and easier means.
(Hear, hear.) .
~ The Bishop of GLOUCESTER said thatesiriceethe
time of the Restoration this was not.the Oly effort Made
to'procure degrees without a subscription to the Thirty
nine Articles. Alban Francis, in the time of James IL e
received an appointment as in-ovost- from 'the-King -with-
out subscribing to the Thiisty;-.nineietrticles. Cambridge re-
sisted. the appointment, and-a.-nit,tee wa,.,apppintOd
tecinaintain the' rights of ' then `tiiiiversety,-in- a-discussicin
with the Crown. -It was -1 curious fact that one of tile'
Meese jeromineilt laereliets ot flat.: cormnittth'iv iffi Isaac
' „Neeetee, who, must haye subscribed, therefore,,,te_ the,39
•-eit tlefes' himself.' - The right rev. pielife tii&M-Iniieil io-
! resistance ow the part of_ A : mitnied oft the gepyte,toen
grace, andbeee testimony to the excellence °this eh-eraSer.
He had no doufit'but that intlividiihr -liajiiketi Aiiseten--
tiously, . although he; tievses aefreepebered „en einstense in
Which a petition had beeti-beroreinfeeteel: Hedieri-ecoje,
lecethat.ari aildreis:ioFtlgi.:Woevn" tiplor3Pthe7eldelli;"eflAlt.
-Perceval, haelebeeu similarly: obstructed liteeet.eitidividulit-
-On political grounds, itidlie-aThe recollected that 'aitiehlrei,k
had been similarly resisted' ere:- the.suppression .of :Alm 1•6-"
hellion of llie-, hut upon a mere, petition,,,be believed, the-
act was unexampled. - - -' '-`1 "'L"' ' '
The... Bishop . of EXETER--:said. hee..-ha.riot: been ede--.
cated in the save, goiv_ersit.y,pc the right rev. prelate near •
km (the Bishop of Lopdoe)„whe was so earnest, in whlt
:he had doubt bitt that he -believedfe be the rest- truth.
:I,n p. 1.1. that bad7fallen L,filim`ll.l4-yight rev. prelate lie (idly
concurred, and he thanked him for expreSsing„so eloquently- '
-all that he (the BiShoi-Of-Eketer) felf,lent which he-could
not have expressed sowell. Tile right rev. prelate had ex-
presSed a hope That seineinethed might hedeViSed for the ad--
mission, Of - dissenters' to he-educated -in the - universities.:
:Now. he (the Bishop, of
.Exeter) would not, sey, whether
Such-a -Measure Might Mot-be-grafted arithe university of
Cambridge, and if it could beso engrafted,:bylio one. could
it be done with- more eafety than by his right rev.. friend.:
But, as a member of the university of' Okforde he should
'noteonceal. hiLowu deep-rooted_Conviction; that it was et-
telt, impossible that any such measure could be adopted in
that university consistently with 'the oithe'4ich were ree
quived of those lOW Were intrusted: with its„goyernneent.
The university of Oxford differed from that of Carnhridke
very' essentially, for at the ' university of - Oxford no ' one
~ceuld-be even matriculated without subscribing, to the. 39
ArtiCles. He had heard some sneers throWn out at this
relegLeheladleard it-Said that' it Waili solemn ni6ekWv for
,pereote4.-. only:16 !yeats; of age
,to sign these -Articles: -He
should, indeed, agree that it was ridieulotis'to do so if the -
'enb seripti on implied that _the par ty knew What tli6y eii*in d'.l
and believed them to I),e ttue. Such, lloweveri:; $'
not the case. The •Subgetiptien was only tantamount; 6-'
,§aying.that -the, patty: tabSeribing. telonged to.. the esta-; '
,blished church. He perceiye.dfiie.,eoble andlearned lord
"to be in -some' aStottishitientat whet he had jest -said, but
'thes_fact7was so.: Brsilesaelps4ente after ~the Reforma-
tion pet: one .was allowvd to be , matriculated without sub-
4Seriptiou to 'the stliirlyenngaiiieleS. Subsetpientles, how-
ever, still: more *as:- required? -.When they, _applied foe'
degrees, they were obliged to declare their belief in All
those articles, and:Vhat•• they were agreeable to , the law! of
:God. Thisehoteever,, was not all- The statute required
that they should be instructed, and it w-as an essential 'pet
of-education that 'illy Aiould be -Instructed in the thirt v-
nine articles. In 'coned-pence, however, of .;the process; of
-corruption in the course,of ages, this systeeiwas.neglected,
until at length the university of ii4''oviii'deceid'Undertook
. to reform its own abuses; the tutoreseid othershaving ells-
.gracefully neglected then' citifies. , About thirty-four years
ago,":a -statute: paSsed' re,ndering •it • imperative that the
thirty-nine articles sheuhl be suliscriW,,ezel making the
thirty-nine articles ae essential part 'of The examination
prior to 'obtaining a degree. if they foetid a candidate kkof
well acquainted with the thirty-nine articles he was hot
permitted to go on with the examirittien. The niliVersitel Of
Oxford, the:term,. could .not deviseaey mode of admitting
dissenters, for_useeneeeer he admiolt,fitreeelifdtioplrml.r.soioicitubah:o,eijutugttigoosdito.taecitoctsh-
stating,
reill.gi.i 1.. g,s
his readiness to adopt t e discipline of. the university bp'
sUbseribing to ,to,
thirty-nine- etrtii.lei.l": ' Ile itetild name
one .or two diethiguiehed..individeals! Niue f, had,been c is-
,' giacedfor not heing acquainted with thethirtY-nine articles.
He 'could mention -a- distingeished righelien.- '-g-entlern ne
and he'could also name one of . the most distinguished Le
'lesophers of the'day, Who had' been thii4 diSiraeed for of
4
being acquainted with :that-which was the most important
branch of all knowledge. - He was proud to think that the
university of . Oxford eeforined itself withont any impulse
whatever from. withou-L •He -did :not -wish .to ,trestiass.
longer on their lordships' time, but there were one or two
points which he could not help adverting' to. He appre-
hended that this, was an application to admit . dissenters
teethe benefits arising from Admission to - the universities:
kwas not an apPlieation'to'relieve,
dissenters from any
grievances under. which they laboured, but it was nothing
less than an application to persecute the Church of Eng-
. land. (-Ng, no.) - rile was aware that he had used a strong
expression, but the proposition amounted to this—that it
was not to be in the power of any set of individuals to
form- an institution' for the purpose of, giving to
Members ,of the , Church, of England the best Pos-
sible instruction, 'but' that other indiVidiiala must have a
e.iiine to share in the advantages. He should: contend that
neither the crown nor the two houses of parliament had
the privileges 'of the uniethisities. Ile *at sere the fivo'
houses ;of parliament would-not de that which they had not
the right tr encroach on . the , privileges of the
right to do, even though they. poSsessed the rower. 3-le
denied that-they-had the right IQ: do:what -,was how called'
for, and lie would state his reasons for that-denial. .)ii
every conititutional; every legal, and 'every eqtiitable Prin-
ciple, where a corperation wee established for specific pur-
poses, the law of England and the legislature 'would resist
any attempt to break in upOti that eorporation, incany
other-
ground than that its members neglected the duties for
which they were incorporated, or because the purposes for
which:they-were embodied, either were originally, or had
become lies. subsc quent enactments, illegal,, superstitious; or
in Other respects deserving of condemnation. That was
a.- principle which- no- Englishman of common understand-
int/ would hesitate one moment to admit. Now, was it
.
alleged' that the universities, or any' of their colleges, had
itli
other-
wiser
cyifcieondornt hteehemeii instance neglectedotitat}rrnipopcieat- HeOfecsupsipacitetth!etio.
anaii.4.l:ll,3,llt.alleds
abusedwhib dettliesoislvperid on
cation.tliat ito
Then.m a n had
h:i sae eikor d wooilu I\dchharati steiirpt
pretence
enrinrickpeleews uowudoistu:a.di
pi aatd:ceivai
their
lordships daro--- he,mut be
,pardoned for Using 4rotig lan-
guage on an occasion in which so many important consi-: '
&rations were involvede=on 'A.
de-
stroyne
o ,
cn,everydareoi
atto
00t lniisinntes:l4;iikutec:t
sllea7ii)eerci n"actltin-diteh ofe
sacredness
leeeked to oohs.? The-members of the University of OX,'
4 ..,,,,;-...,........-...„.i;.-4,,
lltitlid" hi ti-21.
,u,App'orul.l4o,thobe,yey,
I:71:14
kateuetpe:itieTr„,Q,
a-
tthhcel: .Iptli the.