The Sun.
London, England, 1851-11-05 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY EVENING,

ST. ALBAN'S BRIBERY COMMISSION.
ST. ALBAN'S, TUESDAY EVENING.—The Commis-
sioners resumed the inquiry this morning at half-past ten
o'clock. The court was excessively crowded, and much
interest was manifested from the fact of its being spread
abroad that Mr. James Coppock, the well-known elec.
tioneering agent, was to be examined.
Hayward Edwards, son of Henry Edwards, deposed
that he acted as doorkeeper at the house in Sovereign-
alley, and was employed for that purpose by his father,
to let voters in and out when they came in the dusk of
the evening. Had been to Coppock's for the " packets,"
which contained gold. His father promised him and his
brother a situation under Government, through Mr.
Coppock, but they did not obtain it. Witness was a
farmer now on his own account. Had acted in the same
capacity as doorkeeper in 1847, under Raphael's party,
and saw a good many electors at the house inSovereign-
alley on the occasion of the last election, who had been
there in Mr. Raphael's time. Introduced the various
electors to his father, who had been previously employed
for Mr. B. B. Cabbell, the Conservative candidate. Mr.
Cabbell succeeded, and afterwards gave one of his (wit-
ness's) younger brothers a presentation to Christ's
Hospital.
Henry Edwards recalled and examieed—Had not had
returned to him any of the money he had given as
" head money" at the last election, nor bad any persons
made application to him to be allowed to return the
money, beyond one of the name of Saunders, nor had I
he had any communication with any one on the subject.
Had received a letter from Mr. Coppock, from Hastings,
wishing to know what had taken place before the Com-
mission. Confirmed the statement made by his son as
to the prospect of obtaining a situation, and that the
communication to that effect was received from Cop-
pock. He promised a situation, but there was no men-
tion of a Government situation.
Francis Edwards, third son of the last witness, said
he had acted in a :similar way with his brother on the
occasion of the last election at the house in Sovereign-
alley. Went to Coppock's, in Parliament-street, and
received three " packet," containing gold.
Mr. James Coppock was then called, sworn, and ex-
amined—Was a solicitor and Parliamentary agent, No.
40, Parliament-street. Prior to coming to give his evi-
dence before the Commissioners to disclose anything
that had been confided to him in confidence, and in his
capacity as solicitor, he deemed it right to obtain the
permission of Mr. Bell before he disclosed anything, as
without Mr. Bell's permission, with all deference to the
Court, no power upon earth would make him say a
single word. He accordingly wrote to Mr. Bell, and
received a reply, both of which he would read to
the Court. He was perfectly willing to tell everything
he knew. The letter to Mr. Bell stated that before he
(Mr. Coppock) was examined at St. Alban's, he should
wish to know whether there was any, and if any, what
part of hie communications with him relative to the St.
Alban's election he (Mr. Bell) wished to be kept secret.
He held, and was prepared to hold, that the confidence
that was always reposed by a client in a solicitor could
not be violated by an ex post facto Act of Parliament,
such as the St. Alban's Bribery Commission Act, and no
power on earth should make him say it, without Mr.
Bell had the kindnets to inform him, by post on the fol-
lowing day, whether he was in any way held by him
bound not to disclose any matter between them relative
to St. Alban's, or whether he might feel at liberty to
relate what he thought the facts warranted, and the Com-
missioners compelled him to tell. Had Mr. Bell not given
his permission, he should not have appeared before the
Commission. The answer he received to this letter from
Mr. Bell was to the effect, that Mr. Bell requested he

would not, on his (Mr. Bell's) account, withhold any
evidence he (the witness) might think either necessary or
important in carrying out the objects of the St. Alban's
Commission. By that Act, the confidence between so-
licitor and client was violated; but he was not aware
that there was anything it was desirable to withhold,
Admitted having written a letter from Hastings to Ed-
wards, asking for infurmation as to how the inquiry was
going on, and the day after Edwards had been examined
he (witness) received a reply from Edwards, stating,
" It is said by the Commissioners that you will be in
attendance here on Tuesday next, the day to which the
Commission have adjourned. Nothing has come out yet
touching your name, further than the money-2,5001.
being traced to your office." It appeared to have been
sent to his (Coppock's) office, by Mr. Bell's partner, cor-
roborated by Messrs. Brace and Colt. They had drawn
out from him what his inducement was to act, but he
should not without further advice answer the question,
cost him what it might. He had gone through the re-
gister alphabetically, and it appeared that money bad
been given to 250 persons. The letter concluded by
saying—" Mr. Bell has just left after taking dinner in
excellent spirits." It was in 1849 that witness first heard
of the vacancy in the representation of St. Alban's, and
when he first knew Mr. Bell. A friend of Mr. Bell's
and of witness called on witness, and stated that he
had a friend who wished to get into Parliament.
Witness's profession led him very much in connexion
with Parliamentary matters, and this had been so
for the last fifteen or sixteen year. Shortly after
Sir Robert Peel's celebrated speech " Register,
register," an association was formed by the
Liberal party, in 1835, which comprised several
hundred people of the Liberal party, and shortly after,
witness became secretary to the association, The object
of the association was to attend to the registrations ge-
nerally throughout England in the different boroughs,
and to promote the Liberal cause generally. That led
him into communication with nearly every borough and
county town in the kingdom, and from that time to this
he had been in some way connected with the Liberal
party whenever a vacancy occurred. He had constantly
watched them, and know something of most places in
England; and if, instead of going through the register
of voters as Mr. Edwards had done, and marking the
name of every man who had sold his vote, he were to go
through the list of British boroughs returning Members
to Parliament, beginning with the first on the list—say
Abingdon, down to Stafford—and if he were to put oppo-
site the name of the respective Members " bought his
seat," he should make more extraordinary disclosures
than that of Mr. Edwards himself.—(Loud applause,
and cries of " Order.") He did not make that state-
ment for applause; bat he stated it to show the system,
and no man in the kingdom had a greater horror of
the system than he had. When the vacancy oc-
curred, and Mr. Bell was anxious to get into Par-
-w
hdoi —did s witness
friend
was,
know
and of
whaat
vra n
r ae his
position Witness
Par-
liament, a Mr. Thorby, an old friend of witness, said
he bad a friend who was anxious to get into Parliament
cir-
cumstances, and if he was what was called " a produce-
able man"—(Laughter)—if he was an orator. Mr.
vee and
Thorby replied, " Oh, yes, I will give you the informa-
tion, but I only want to know if there is a vacancy, and
then I will introduce you to him, but I have no autho-
rity to give his name. Witness also required his poli-
tics. Never was employed by any but one side, and
never would be. Witness took time to consider, and
Thorby returned in three weeks, and gave the name of
Mr. Bell. Witness requested Mr. Bell 10 call on him.
Mr. Bell did so, and made a memorandum of his name
in his pocket-book, having made inquiries as to Mr.
Bell's politics, and as to the expense he would be wil-
ling to incur, because it was absolutely necessary to
know the depth of a Member of Parliament's pocket,
as well as the nature of his polities.—(Laughter.)
Witness inquired the amount of money he (Mr. Bell)
wuuld be willing to' expend. Mr. Bell told witness
that his only object in getting into Parliament was to
promote some views relative to the medical profession,
which for years he bad laboured to bring forward,
and he thought he could better carry them out by ob-
taining a seat in Parliament. Mr. Bell stated that he
had no ambitious views—that be asked for nothing—
that money was not to be an object that he
should not mind a proper expenditure. Witness
asked him what he would expend, and when asked, in
'reply, what would be sufficient, said from 1,5001. to
2,500/. according to the place that was sought, and Mr.
Bell authorised him to send word to him whenever a
vacancy occurred. Twelvemonths elapsed before any-
thing did occur, and then on Mr. ataphael's death wit-
ness negotiated with parties at St, ,Alban's' and amongst
the number with Mr. Edwards, and he told him that
2,5001. would be the expense if there was a contest, but
that if there was not a contest it would be considerably
less. There was also a probability at this time that the
Hon. Mr. Craven would become a candidate; and a per-
son of family like Mr. Craven always had an advantage
over a man from the ranks, but ultimately Mr. Craven
declined to stand. At this period witness found that St.
Alban's was in the market in London in three different
channels, and by three parties connected with the borough,
each of them anxious to promote a oindidate, and witness
had peculiar means for knowing the movements of all
three, and it was in this way he heard that
with Sir IL Carden 1,5001. was the limit, and
that he did not like 2,sool.—(Laughter.) The
third party in the borough made every effort to get
a candidate simply for the sake of the expenditure,
ss of principle or politics.—(Hear.) I
and utterly regardle
the case at St Alban's for
This sort of thing had been
the last one hundred years. The principle of " bleed j
and bribe" had always been the ruling principle. There
in St. 's who knew
were some respectable
men
tem, but the greatAlban majority of the
nothing of that sys
voters had always been s. Mr. Bell having boughte and sold without
regard
to principle or anything
else.
12 5001. should be the
mum, it was agreed that last election arranged that ,
the money should be supplied,
' office in Parliament- and it was sent to witness s :met street,
never opened the packets," or
by somebody. Witness
imeney.
Did notplaten
saw one farthing of the
came, bat knew forow from
whom, or from whence they what
matters • •
ries were
In all these inquiries they were intended. a
T
never particularly made. The packets went as they
in all transactions of the kind, in
came, as was the case
which he was ever concerned. Wit-
any borough for w
ness sever had anything
to do with the arrangement or
and derived no advantage or
disposition of the money, /.went that
in
benefit, except a political one. The 2,500
and notorious that St. Al-
way, and it was well known 501_.
Witness's bill, on the
occasion of the petition
ban's was to be bought and
to
the House, and Committee
of Inquiry, was 1,0001
of which Mr. Bell had paid.
The witness wasall
then questioned at considerable
um with reference to the as-
length by the Commi
sertion of Edwards on ssioe
previous occasion, as to the
kof an appointment or situation,
promise, by Coppoc
Provided he carried out the election successfully, and in
good faith. He
denied ever having promised any Go-
vernment situation, or any past, office, or appointment of
any kind, though ho
admitted that he had procured
posts, offices, and appointments under
Government, and
OD railways, by recommendation, or in his own offices,
for other persons
on other occasions; had exerted him-
self to obtain places for people under Government who
had exerted themselves in
elections in which he had been
engaged; and had exerted himself to serve those who
had served him. When the money came to his office
for Edwards he had no instructions as to how it was to be
of what was going on in St.
employed. Was aware
Alban's; but did not know that the money
was to be em-
ployed in bribery. Though he (witness) had been secre-
tary to the Worm Amoiatiou, which "(willow defueot,

it had nothing to do with the Reform Club, nor had the
Reform Club anything whatever to do with the St. Alban's
election. When the vacancy in St. Alban's occurred, the
parties came up from St. Alban's and searched the law
courts and other places fora candidate, asking them what
they could afford to spend. There was nothing to be
done in St. Aiban's without "head money." When the
present Sir H. G. Ward some years ago stood for Si;
Alban's, it cost him 2,4001., but when he went to Shef-
field, a town with a constituency of some thousands, Sir
Henry Ward wrote to witness to say that his total
electioneering expenses only cost him 1501.—(Loud
laughter)—and he thanked Mr. Coppock for sending
him there from St. Alban's. The expense of the last
election for St. Alban's might have been done for 2001,
including hustingc, clerks, &c., and that would leave
501. for the manager of the election. " You cannot,"
said the witness, emph.tically, "prevent this species of
expenditure, until you allow the ballot, which would be
the only preventive against bribery."—(Loud applmue.)
In his mind, measures of this kind could come to no
result.

Mr. COMMiaioll.os SLADE—We cannot go into that.
Many people have different opinions. There are many
people who think that the ballot would increase bribery
very much, sad I am one of those.—(Laughter.)
Witness—But until Parliament does someEhing more
than attempt to put down bribery by punishing a single
borough, they never will effect it.—(Applause.)
Mr. Commissioner PHINN—But we must go by steps.
Witness—They are very slow oncs.
Mr. Edwards was then recalled, and questioned as to
the inducement hold out by Mr. Coppock to his exerting
him,ell to procure Mr. Bell's return, and adhered with-
out deviation to his first assertion, that Mr. Coppock had
pronai,7ed him a situation.
Messrs. Hay ward and Debenham were then called
and examined, but nothing materially interesting
elicited.

Mr. Low, the local agent for Sir Robert Carden, was
also called and examined at Lome length, and deposed to
having paid various persons (specifying them by name)
in the borough, sums varying trona 101. to 201. or 301.,
for active services in the election, and for efforts to pro-
mote Sir R. Carden's return. The Conservatives of the
town, as far as he knew, were as open to bribery as the
Liberals.—(Laughter.) He had paid 650/. for conduct-
ing Sir R. Carden's election. Some of these individuals
had not the opportunity at the last election of voting for
the " purity side." The voters were paid by the Carden
party according to their station in life, but could not say
that the veto formed an element in the payment.—
(Laughter.) Did not employ any one who was not a
voter—or any one who voted against him.—(Laughter.)
After some further evidence, the Court adjourned to
this day, when Mr. Bing, the town clerk, is to be ex-
amined.

NOVEMBER 5, lB5l.

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.
PORTSMOUTH, TUESDAY.—The Swedish frigate Eu-
genie, 40, Captain Virgin, and corvette Pagerbjelke, 16,
Captain Englehart, fired a salute of 21 guns each to-
day at twelve o'clock, in honour of the anniversary of
the union of Sweden and Norway. At 330 this after-
noon they got under weigh, and left Spithead in pursuit
of their respective missions, the former to circumnavi-
gate the globe, vnd the latter to perform service at Rio
de Janeiro.

The Sirnoom iron steam-frigate is ordered into the
Sidon dock to have the improved cooking galley fitted to
her, and otherwise to be prepared for commission.
The Blenheim, 60, screw gusrdship of the steam-
squadron, Captain W. H. Henderson, C. 13., will go out
of harbour tomorrow, and Drove her machinery, &c., at
the measured mile in Stoke'S Bay.
The Fairy royal steam-yacht v. ill be out of the hands
of the engineers on Saturday, and out of dock on Mon-
day, further coated with the anti-corrosive preparations
of Messrs. Peacock and Buchan, cf Southampton, and
Mr..llay, of this port, to test again their relative pro-
parties.
The Rolla, 6, naval apprentices' instruction brig, Com-
mander Fenwiek, has come alongside her hulk to lay up
for the winter.
Corpus al punishment was inflicted on board the iron
steam troopship Bit kenhead, Master-Commander
Sa!mond, this, morning, in harbour, on ono of the, sea-
men, for attempting to stab the sergeant of marines, and
others of the same ship, who were ordered to place him
in irons for breaking his leave and drunkenness. no
was sentenced to receive " tour dozen," and then be
turned out of the service with a blank discharge.
WOOLWICH, Nov. 4.—Captain Hugh Dunlop (1850),
having finished a course of study of steam at the tac•
tory at Woolwich dockyard, was examined by Mr.
engineer, on Friday and Saturday last,
asA Atherton, rhie
n , chief
knowledge of the working of marine steam-
engines, and his examination having been satisfactory,
ho received his certificate on Saturday.