The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-26 00:00:00

hostility to the Government, but from anxiety that nothing
should occur to impede the proper and safe working of the
measure of negro emancipation.
Lord ALT I-10R P'S reply was inaudible in the gallery;
but he was understood to say that the payments could not be
made before the month of April next--
Mr. GOULBURN thought that the six months the planter
would have to wait before receiving anything for the libera-
tion of his slaves, would be attended with great injury to his
interests.

Lord ALTHORP was understood to say he was not aware
of the details, but that it would be impossible to ascertain how
much each planter would be entitled to of the sum appointed
to his island before the month of

Mr. POULETT THOMSON trusted the Committee
would allow him to make a few observations upon the remarks
made by the Hon. Member for Essex on the Bill he had the
honour to bring before the House a short time back. He had
been peculiarly unfortunee as rojtarded his Hon. Friend ; for
when be introduced that Bill, Ise-tathered from the manner in
which it was received that it was generally approved of by the
House, and he did not even now despair of his Hon'. Friend
doing that which was not very uncommon with him, viz.—
change his mind. In the course of this evening, indeed, he
had expressed an opinion with regard to one article affected
by the Customs Bill different from that which he had expressed
on a former occasion ; he meant oil.
Mr. BARING said he had stated that that was the only
article, the reduction of the duty on which he approved of.
Mr. P. THOMSON said that he must, in common with
others who had heard his Honourable Friend, have misunder-
stood him, and if so, what became of all his wit about salad
oil. The fact, he supposed was, that his Noble Friend had
found out, since he spoke, that oil was greatly used in the ma-
nufactures of this country.
Mr. BARING begged to say that he had stated on the for-
mer evening what he had stated to-night, and which the Right
Hon. Gentleman was pleased to call wit, viz., that the reduc-
tion of the duty, as far as regarded oil employed in manufac-
tures, was beneficial, although he certainly did not wish to see,
if the distinction could be made, any reduction of the duty on
oil used as an article of luxury.
Mr. P. THOMSON was glad to have received the appro-
bation of his Hon. Friend, either now or on the former occa-
sion ; but the amount of oil consumed as a luxury was, he
could assure him, a mere trifle, compared with that employed
in manufactures. With the exception, however, of this ar-
ticle, there was not one of those which had been selected for
a reduction of duty which, upon going through the customs-
book, he should not have placed last upon the list to be so
selected, and that, in point of fact, it was a waste of the pub-'
lic money to reduce the duty upon such articles. The articles,
however, which had particularly excited his wrath, were those
coming under the head of fruit, and especially currants. The
Hon. Member for Essex treated these as articles of luxury,
meaning, he presumed, that they were articles for the con-
sumption of the rich, and not of the poor. Now, as regarded
currants, he could assure his Hon. Friend that he was com-
pletely mistaken in so describing them. It was notorious that
all but the poorest class of all were in the habit of consuming
currants to a large extent, particularly in the North of Eng-
land. His Hon. Friend near him, who was well acquainted with
the mining districts of Durham and Northumberland,would sup-
port him in the assertion, that it was the constant practice of the
miners to consume large quantities of this fruit. But he con-
sidered this arcticle as worthy of their attention, not merely
because a reduction of the duty upon it would lower its price
to a large class of the community, with whom price was a
matter of consideration, but because he thought that reduction
might be made with scarcely any loss to the revenue.—.
( Cheers.) The Hon. Member had stated that the reduction
was intended to benefit the lonian Islands, but that they would
not be benefitted by it because they were suffering from the
competition of their neighbours. Now, it would be in the re-
collection of the House that the fact was that the reduction of
this duty had been long pressed upon the Government. The
answer which had uniformly been given to applications to this
effect, and the answer which he had himself given, was, that it
could not be done till the lonian Islands removed the export
duty imposed upon the article ; but last year the lonian Legis-
lature took off the export duty, and he felt himself bound in
justice to meet their expectations by some diminution of the
duty levied upon it in this country. Now, what was the duty
upon this article, which the Hon. Member said was the last he
should select for reduction. The duty on currants was now
forty-four shillings and two-pence; which, as their price
was only thirty shillings, amounted to 175 per cent.—
( Hear, hear.) This was a fact the Hon. Gentleman could
not be aware of, and he now asked whether it was not such a
fact as, even in his own view of the article, namely, as one
which was riot generally consumed, but which, upon the prin-
ciple of getting an equal amount of revenue with a less charge
to the consumer, was so situated as to make a reduction of
the duty upon it to 225., likely to be advantageous ?—( Hear. )
Then, again, there was the article of prunes. It was one of
great consumption among the poorer classes all over the Con-
tinent, and there was no reason why it should not also be con-
sumed by the poorer classes of this country, if brought within
their reach. The duty on that article was 275. 6d., which,
as the price was only 145., amounted to 250 per cent.—
( Hear, hear.) He proposed to reduce the duty to 7s.—
( Cheers)—and he was satisfied that, if anything, the revenue
would gain by the reduction.—( Hear, hear.) He would not
go through the whole list of fruits on which the duty was re-
duced. It would be sufficient to say that they were all in
about the same situation, viz., with a duty of from 150 to 200
per cent. upon them ; and if they could reduce that duty,
without any serious loss to the revenue, he said, in spite of
what his Hon. Friend would not allow him to call wit, he
had no doubt that the majority both of the House and of the
public would be with him.—( Cheers.) The amount of
tax upon these articles, which would be abandoned, was
about 120,0001. Then came the other article of coals. He
knew that that involved a disputed question, and he did not
intend to deny that he was one of those who agreed in the
principle, that if you had the perfect monopoly of an article of
this description, it was unwise policy to surrender it to neigh-
bouring countries. But to be able to stand by that principle,
it was necessary first to be satisfied that we could maintain the
monopoly, and next that, being able to maintain it, the doing
so was not attended with concomitant disadvantages, which
weighed against it. Now, with respect to the first point, he
was perfectly satisfied, from the experience they had had in
the three years which had elapsed since the duty had been re-
duced, that we could not maintain our monopoly. It was a
notorious fact which any gentleman who would take thetrouble
might verify beyond a doubt, that coal-fields were open in
Holland, Belgium, and France ; and that the collieries of
those countries could compete with ours, and would in a short
time be able to furnish themselves with that article. Then,
with respect to the disadvantages of attempting to keep a
monopoly which really could not be kept. Even at the
present reduced dutf, great quantities of small coal were
burnt on the ground, and absolutely lost to the country,
because they would not bear the export duty. Besides
this loss, there was the injury we suffered from depriving
our labourers of so much additional employment, and our ship-
ping of a great extension of trade. If Gentlemen would take
the trouble to look at the statement laid upon the table yester-
day, they would perceive how large the amount of tonnage
was now employed in the export of coals ; and that British
shipping not only maintained a successful competition in the
trade against the shipping of countries with which we had not
reciprocity treaties, and the articles exported in which were,
therefore, subject to increased duties, but also against the
shipping of countries with respect to which they had no such
advantage.—( Cheers.) Besides, the abolition of the present
duty would be a great relief to several important interests in
the north of England, now in a state of some suffering. In
addition, therefore, to the great general public advantages of
the proposed change, it would prove exceedingly advantageous
to important classes of the community. But the Hon. Mem-
ber for Essex had said, that he should have preferred taking
off the glass and the cotton duty. He was certainly not one
who would object to the reduction of the duties on those
articles ; but when the Honourable Member spoke of his
(Mr. Thomson's) constituents not approving of the reduc-
tions made upon fruit and coals, he begged to say that he
believed his constituents too intelligent and- enlightened
to object to any reduction which was for the general ad-
vantage of the country.—( Hear, hear.) They might, with
him be glad to see the duties on glass and cotton abolished ;
but when his Hon. Friend recommended its being done, did
he recollect the circumstances connected with each. The
cotton tax was diminished more than one-half last year ; and
other classes might have some right to complain if they had
this year devoted the whole of the sum they had to
spare to the reduction of the remainder, which amounted to
a larger sum by one-half than the whole loss by this measure,
viz., 350,000/. The duty on glass, on the other hand,
amounted to 700,0001. He believed that no duty could be
more beneficially taken off, but then it amounted to 700,000/.;
and every one knew it would be useless to reduce the duty,
for they would not thereby get rid of the machinery by which
it was collected, and the mischiefs it inflicted upon the ma-
nufacturer.—( Hear, hear.) He would now say a few words
upon the statements made by his Hon. Friend upon the sub-
ject of taxation generally. His Hon. Friend had found great
fault 'with them in the first place for making any reduction,
and for not devoting all they could spare to the Sinking Fund ;
but he went further, and stated one thing which he ought to
have known was not correct. He stated that his Noble Friend
had come down to that House with a popularity budget,
by giving up the principle of his predecessors of having a
surplus. Now, the fact was, that after deducting the
reductions made by the Right Hon. Member. for the Uni-
versity of Cambridge, his Noble Friend, when he came into
office, found no surplus whatever.---( Hear, hear, hear.) If
therefore his Noble Friend had proceeded upon this principle,
he could only have entered upon it by refusing to reduce any
taxes for a considerable length of time, in order to save up a
surplus. But the advantage attending the great reductions of
taxation made by his Noble Friend, was, that the revenue
sprung under them to a degree that made up half, if not more
than half, of the amount reduced. He would state in round
sums the amount of the several reductions which had been
made in the last four years. In the year 1831, he found,
that taking the difference between the taxes repealed and the
taxes imposed, there was a balance of reduction amounting to
1,253,000/. In the year 1832, the relief from taxation was
739,000/. ; in the year 1833 it was 1,636,000/., making a
total for these three years of 3,628,000/. This, added to re-
ductions his Noble Friend had announced that night (after
deducting the new duties to be laid on), made a total
from the four years of 5,329,000/. The reductions
made by the Right Honourable Member opposite, in the
year 1830—some of which did not come into operation till
1831, amounted to 3,906,000/., which made a total re-
duction of taxation in the course of five years, amounting to
9,233,0001.-( Cheers.) And if the 750,000/. his Noble
Friend had provided for the interest of the grant to the West
Indians was taken into the account, it would amount to
9,985,000/. Now what was the loss of revenue consequent
upon this reduction of taxation? Only 4,580,0004—( Cheers. )