The Sun.
London, England, 1834-04-16 00:00:00

COAL DUTIES.

Mr. HUTT said he had a petition to present, of
which he had given notice, very numerously signed by
the merchants and shipowners of the town of Hull,
praying for a total repeal of the duties levied on the
exportation of coal. He hoped, from the very satis-
factory state of the revenue at present, and the great
injury and vexation arising from that impost, that his
Majesty's government would deem it expedient to re-
duce the duty upon the exportation of coal. He even
ventured to hope that they would not stop there, but
altogether repeal it.—( Hear.) These duties brought
in a sum of about 40,0001. annually to the Exchequer,
but when the great vexation and annoyance they pro-
duced to the commercial classes were considered, occa-
sioned by the custom-house regulations, he ( Mr. H. ) was
sure he could not estimate the charge at less than three
times that sum. By repealing these duties altogether
the loss of time and annoyance would be done away
with, and he was sure it would be a great mistake of
his Majesty's government to suppose that by repealing
a part they would be enabled to preserve the remainder,
and thereby „retain in their hands the means of supply-
ing the continent with coal. If these duties were
continued, it would be offering a premium to the
counties on the continent to open those coal mines,
which undoubtedly abounded there, and thus ::ca-
der them independent of supplies from England.
Under the present system, supposing the duties to be
reduced, the Custom-house regulations were of such a
nature, that it would require thirteen or fourteen days
to load a vessel of 300 tons with coals; whereas, if the
regulations were the same as those with respect to salt,
the vessel might be loaded in three days. Economy
of time was, in commercial affairs, economy of money,
and this was, in his (Mr. H.'s) opinion, a strong ar-
gument why these duties should be entirely repealed.
The petition was laid on the table.
THE DORCHESTER UNIONISTS.

The HoN. MEMBER said he bad another petition,
signed by upwards of 7,000 members of the Grand
National Consolidated Trades' Union of Kingston-
upon-Hull, imploring his Majesty's government to
remit the punishment inflicted upon the six labourers,
tried and convicted at the last Dorchester assizes.
He ( Mr. Hutt) did not stand there as the advocate
of the trades' unions ; he thought them most mis-
chievous in their operation, both towards society and
those who became members of such bodies. But that
was entirely distinct from the question at present be-
fore them. The question was whether his Majesty's
government, having inflicted the severest penalty the
law allowed, had not transgressed the bounds of justice
and humanity ? He was a member of a secret society
and had taken a secret oath. lie was aware at the
time that he was infringing the law, but when he had
heard that it had only been acted upon once in a period of
40 years, he conceived that it was obsolete, and that a fine
of 6d. would be a sufficient penalty for such a transgres-
sion. ( Hear.) He hoped it would be clearly understood
that these individuals had not been punished for taking
a secret oath, but for having been members of the
trades' unions. He deplored the conduct of his Ma-
jesty's government towards these men, because there
was every reason to hope that these unions were falling
to pieces, and would, if not for this step, ere now have
been totally annihilated. The law, he admitted,
should be vindicated ; but that vindication should have
been tempered with justice, humanity, and discretion.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR begged to offer a few obser-
vations upon the law of the case, although, in doing
so, he might, perhaps, be charged with impertinence in
placing his opinion in opposition to that of hon. gentle-
men who had yesterday alluded to the act of parliament
under which these unfortunate men had been tried.
It appeared that they had been tried under the 37th
Geo. 111., and it appeared also, by a reference to that
Act, that it was merely enacted against persons who
might attempt to seduce sailors and soldiers from their
allegiance. The 52d Geo. 111. had been passed for the
purpose of explaining that act, and it was an injustice
to those men to indite them under the former when the
latter was in existence. He ( Mr. O'Connor) did
the 52d Geo.o say that if they had been indicted under
would not have been in
111.,t1
lreeailnafnnged. (The hon. and
tleoarnsheodwmtheamtbietr here
to
relatedclausetn t
the from
administration
t e latter
o f
merely degree
to commit murder,
illegal oaths, tendingincite
treason, or felony, the punishment was ad-
judged by the act to be death.) It Waswelanitnhfrominflicted the
nature of the oath and the punishment
that the crime of these unfortunate men
had
no reference to the act under which they had
been tried. The hon. and learned gentleman
(Mr. Retch), when he had alluded to the act yesterday,
had not read or, considered it properly. These unfor-
tunate men had been most unfairly dealt with. Who,
he ( Mr. O'Connor) would ask, should really be in their
place at that moment ? Those persons who had used
tllitemmighfotrntohtebire ot
hwenf a
sphuir:no steos . s
p ( Heake a r,
in atnhd laa
ta
maungnh. er),
or perhaps it might excite laughter ; but he (Mr.
O'C.) thought that Earl Grey, Lord Brougham, the
noble lord the, Paymaster of the Forces, and the right
hon. the Secretary for the Colonies, should be on
board the hulks in place of these unfortunate men
(Laughter), for they had been distinctly the prime
movers and actors in that transaction. (Laughter.)
They were, in short, accessaries before the fact. Now,
with respect to the trades unions. What was it, he would
ask, that caused to adopt the title of political unions ?
Why, nothing but the imbecile and truckling conduct
of the present Whig governmeht. He was the last

.•
Mr. F. O'C ONNOR, in explanation, observed that
he had not relied upon the act to which the hon. mem-
ber had alluded. 'What he had said was, that it was
most unjust to indict a person under an act, when there
was a subsequent act passed to explain it.
Mr. WA SON had no doubt of the legality of the
sentence passed on those unhappy men. The right
hon. baronet, the member Cumberland, said that two
days had been spent in considering their case ; but
then the object of inquiry was not whether the sen-
tence was justifiable by the laws of criminal jurispru-
dence. Every one knew that when it became the
duty of a judge to pronounce sentence of transporta-
tion for any crime, it could not be for a less term
than seven years ; and he (Mr. W.) was sure, that
if such a time as three years could be given to those
men for punishment, the learned judge would have
willingly limited their sufferings to that period. Let
no doubt be entertained, then, of the legality of the
sentence, let the consideration alone be, why the Go-
vernment did not interpose, as their authority could
alone have interposed to render the heavy sentence of
those men something lighter.
Colonel E VANS was of opinion that the learned
judge was not amenable to censure. The entire
affair rented with his Majesty's Government. ThC
question was one of great importance to the country ;
it bore on several relations of national interest and
justice ; therefore, if the under-ssecretary of the Home-
office were present, it would be much better than that he
should be absent, as a satisfactory inquiry might be made
into the subject. No person was more adverse than
he ( Colonel Evans) was to trades' unions; he should
not defend them, because he considered that industry
was a description of property, and the most sacred
( Hear, hear), species of property. He was most
anxious to extend protection to that, if such protection
was quite inconsistent with any improper spirit of re-
volt, or undue means of intimidation ; he consequently
thought that his Majesty's government were perfectly
right in inflicting some punishment on those men, but
it should have been a lighter one. (Hear.)
Colonel WILLIAMS had a petition from his
constituents to- present on the subject of those men,
but as they had sailed, it was, of course, of no use to
do it.

Mr. AGLIONBY could account for the absence
of the noble lord ( Howick). He was pleased to come
down to the house because he (Mr. Aglionby) inti-
mated to him that he had two petitions to present
which required the attention of the noble lord. How-
ever, he ( Mr. Aglionby) found that he could not pre-
sent those petitions that day, because they were not on
the list, and he apprised the noble lord of it, upon which
he left the house. Regarding the punishment of those
men at Dorchester, a measure should be brought spe-
cifically before the house, by which a remission of their
very severe senteng might be procured. It was to
the general feelingothat existed through the country to
pay a proper attention to their case, and he hoped that
it would_be given.

Mr. H UTT presented a petition from the merchants
of Kingston-upon-Hull against the duties upon the
exportation of coals.
Mr. INGHAM said he had great pleasure in sup-
porting the prayer of the petition. A great quantity
cf coals was at present wasted in this country, which,
but for the duties upon exportation, might be sent
out at great advantage. French coal was at present
srlling at Rotterdam at 20s. per ton, whilst English
coal could not be sold for less than 30s. The duties
upon the exportation of coal were never more than
40,0001. per annum ; and for so small a sum it was well
worth the attention of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer whether he would persevere in maintaining those
duties.

Mr. RUTHVEN said that the noble lord, the
Under Secretary of State, ought to have recollected
that there might be other petitions oi. the subject of
the Dorchester convictions, besides those two which
could not be presented that day. It was admitted on
all hands that the punishment of those unfortunate
men was extremely severe, and the Government
seemed to be of the same opinion, by the extraordi-
nary haste with which they sent those men out of the
country before any applications could be made for a
mitigation of the sentence. He hoped they would still
be profitted by the general sympathy that was ex-
pressed in their favour.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought that it would be
much better if the further discussion upon this suoject
was postponed till the day named for its being regu-
larly brought forwards.
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from East
Teignmouth and other places in Devonshire, praying
that relief might be afforded to the dissenters. The
same noble lord presented a petition from Geo. Frede-
rick Juke, as we understood, praying for the esta-
blishment of a general registry. Also, a petition from
an individual named John Scary, formerly connected
with the Irish Court of Common Pleas, and now im-
prisoned for debt in that county, praying for an inquiry
into the causes of his removal from his office.

'Sir F. L OPE Z presented a petition from a dissen-
ting congregation of Westbury, in Wilts, praying
for relief from their grievances. He consi-
dered that every member who presented a peti-
tion to that house was identified with the opinions
it contained, unless he stated his dissent from them.
It was for this reason that he was desirous, on the
present occasion, to state his entire dissent from that
part of the petition which questioned the pro-
priety of a. national church establishment. Never
should he (Sir F. Lopez) aid, by voice or act, to
weaken or in any way to endanger the existence of the
established church. With the other parts of the peti-
tion, which prayed for relief from grievances, he en,
tirely concurred.
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. WASON presented a petition from Ipswich, pray-
ing for an alteration of the law relative to municipal cor-
porations.
Colonel EVANS, in presenting a petition from Hast-
ings in favour of the bill to prevent the employment of
climbing boys, took that opportunity of putting some quest
tions to the noble lord opposite (Lord J. Russell), and
also to the hon. member for Hastings (Mr. Warm).
With regard to that hon. member he was requested to in-
quire if he intended to resign his seat, (A laugh.) Al,
though he must admit that the manner in which that hon.
gentleman had conducted himself lately towards his con-
stituents was unquestionable, he believed that it had
generally been understood that one of the lords of the
treasury at least should be a member from a part of
Scotland, in order that he might the more particularly at-
tend to the business from that part of the kingdom. There
was one some time ago, but he had resigned for some
months. One of the first vacancies that had occurrdd
in the 'Bard's:4 Adriliralty had keen Ailed up by the

appointment •of the hon. member (Mr. C. Berkeley),
who Was then obliged to go back to his constituents at
Gloucester but they refused to receive, him ; that shove t a
marked difference in their minds towards him by his ac-
cepting office. • There was another office of greater im-
portance, viz. that of Attorney-General, and although he
(Colonel Evans) was not generally dissatisfied with the
measures of Government, still he felt gratified at such an
exhibition of public . feeling as had been exhibit-
ed towards that gentleman. (Hear, hear, hear.) He
entertained a very high respect for that gentleman's cha,
racter, but he wished to know from the noble lord opposite
whether the absence of that high officer would produce any
public inconvenience ? If so, he should sincerely regret
it. He should like to know whether that absence would
affect the progress of those law reforMs which it had been
intended to • introduce ? Another' appointment had been
offered to a gentleman who (and he spoke with all due
respect for his character) was totally unacquainted with
public affairs. Ministers finding from the above instances
what the disposition of the constituency was, instead,
therefore, of selecting a gentleman who was in Parliament,
had selected one (Mr. Graham) who was not a member.
Mr. •WARRE said it was perfectly true that an offer
had been made him of a seat at the treasury board, and that
upon that being done, he had acted as he thought it.
was right to do—communicated it to hiS friends and
supporters, thinking that they had a perfect right
to see the position in which the place stood ; and he
was sure that the gallant Colonel was too well aware of
what the place was, to suppose that lie was actuated in
what he had done by any particular considerations. Fur-
ther, he did not consider it necessary to state an answer to
file observations of the gallant Colonel. What he
had done was "Perfectly well known ; he did not
repent of it; and by the course he had adopted, he
was ready to abide; With respect to the statement
of the gallant Colonel that he (Mr. Warre) had
lost his supporters, all he had to say was, that it
was as easy to make assertions of that description on the
one side as on the other. The town had been placarded,
as was usual on all elections ; and if the gallant Colonel
could draw any inference from that, he was most willing to
do so. He would again repeat, that what he had done he
would not repent of, and intended to abide by.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not mean to enter into all
the topics that the Gallant Colonel had adverted to, but
there were one or two points which he felt bound to notice,
first, with respect to the course Government intended to
pursue with respect to certain bills for the reform of the
law; the two principal measures were thoSe which the
Attorney-General, when he was a member of the
house had alluded to, namely, the Local Courts
Bill, and the Imprisonment for Debt Bill. With
regard to those two measures, it was the fixed intention of
his Majesty's Government to carry them through in the
present session. The gallant colonel had also entered into
a discussion with respect to elections, and had taken an op-
portunity of saying, that in almost every instance of mem-
bers of that house taking place under the present government,
they lost their seats. That, he was ready to admit, to a
certain extent was true ; but still the cause of that was very
soon explained. The members of former cabinets had a
ready course to regain entrance to the house, through a
constituency of but few individuals. (Hear.) That, how-
ever, was not the case since the passing of the Reform
bill (Hear), and the present ministers, almost to a man,
represented large constituencies. (Hear.) What had,
therefore, taken place was not to be wondered at. At the
time of the discussion of the Reform Bill he foresaw that
such might be the case even though the government enjoyed
the full share of the confidence of the people, which it ought
to have, and in that he was not mistaken. With respect
to the two instances in which the elections had failed, of
Gloucester and Dudley, lie thought that the fair inference
to be drawn from the result of those elections was, that
Government had been going too rapidly on in the way of
innovation (A laugh), and the people, in order to put a
stop to such things, had sent conservatives into parliament.
Mr. ROTCH in supporting the prayer of the petition,
observed that he was a member of a society for the preven-
tion of climbing boys.
Colonel EVANS could not but give great credit to the
noble lord for the very ingenious manner in which he had
accounted for the several failures gentlemen taking office
under government had experienced in endeavouring to ob-
tain a seat in that house.

Admiral ADAM presented petitions from the inhabi-
tants of Alloa, against church patronage in Scotland, and
the stamp duties; from the hand-loom tireavers, praying
for a relief of their distresses; and from the town of Kin-
cardine against thc reciprocity duties.
Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition also from the
hand-loom weavers, and he expressed his full concurrence
in the prayer of the petition.
Mr. JOHNSON presented three petitions from places
in Scotland against the better observance of the Sabbath
Day ; three against church patronage • one against stamp
receipt duties ; and one against lighthouse dues paid north
of the Tweed.

The petitions were referred to a committee.
DISSENTERS' GRIEVANCES.

Lord MORPETH presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of Doncaster against the present disabilities under
which the Dissenters labour ; also six petitions from seve-
ral Wesleyan congregations, for the better observance of
the Sabbath, and one for the mitigation of the sentence
passed on the Dorchester men. The prayer of the last pe-
tition received the support of Mr. Baines.
Mr. STRICKLAND was anxious that some mode
should be adopted for the better observanceof the Sabbath.
He was aware that a bill was before the house to that ef-
fect, but he considered that that bill would give great dis-
satisfaction. It was desirable that a line should be drawn
by which the necessary rest and recreation could be given
to all classes, and religious duties still be strictly
attended to. (Hear.) It was not the province of
the legislature to interfere with the lawful enjoyments of
the people, while it was their duty to enforce that respect
that was due to the Sabbath' Day. For instance, bakers
should be prevented from baking on Sundays; and he
thought, also, that the cries in the streets of London should
be put a stop to. He did not conceive the very great dif-
ficulty that could exist in the framing of a bill which shot Id
provide effectually for the religious observance of the
Lord's Day, and nc t encroach on the pleasures of the people.
Mr. FINCH thought the wisest plan would be to allow
the bill to go into committee. The principle upon which
it was founded was most important, and one which he
should be glad to see acted upon. With respect to the
petition in favour of the Dorchester Unionists, he thought
their case was one of some hardship, and without going the
length of saving that they should not have been punished,
he thought the Government would act wisely in at least
shortening the term of their transportation.
Mr. POTTER thought the bill of the hon. baronet
(Sir A. Agnew) objectionable in many particulars, but
would reserve his opposition till it was fairly before the
house.
Colonel EDWARDS presented petitions from the dis-
senters of Northampton, praying for relief ; also a petition
for the better observance of the Sabbath, from a place the
name of which we did not hear.
Mr. EVANS presented a petition from a parish in the
county of Dublin against the land tax by the Commutation
Bill. The hon. member also presented a petition from
Balrothery, county of Dublin, praying for an alteration in
the law regarding fisheries in Ireland.
Major BEAUCLERK supported the prayer of the pe-
titions. _

Mr. F. O'CONNOR, after expressin' his regret that
the petitions of the people should be presented to so
thin a house, moved that the house should be counted.

The SPEAKER put it to the hon. and learned member
whether it would not be productive of great inconvenience
if he were to persist in his motion. If the hon. and learned
member would take the trouble to read the resolutions of
the house, he would see that the object of the house sitting
from twelve o'clock to three, was to dispose of private
business and to receive petitions. If the house fell short
of the number that was necessary to entitle them to pro-
ceed with the business, of course that business must be
stopped, and any hon. member might stop the business by
moving that the house be counted. But the Speaker was
bound to remain in the neighbourhood of the house,
and at any time when forty members were present the sit-
tings might be resumed.

Mr. -O'CONNOR- said it was not for the purpose
of ,giving any opposition to the presentation of peti,
tiohs that he had made his motion. (Hear.) After
however, the explanation of the Speaker, he would not
press his motion. He was not himself aware of the rules
of the house, but would yield to the judgment of the
Speaker, and would withdraw his motion.
Major BEAUCLERK said he had some petitions to pre-
sent, but he considered it would be an insult to the peti-
tioners to present their petitions, when so few members
were present to discuss them.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn, and the petitions
presented by Mr. Evans were ordrered to lie on the table.
Mr. TYNTE presented a petition from the town of
Chard, praying for the removal of the disabilities of the
Dissenters. Also one from Yeovil, praying for a mitigation
of the sentence passed on the Dorchester Unionists ;
also one from the Political Union of Ye&il cn:l
Broadway, praying for a registration of births and
marriages.

Mr.—LUMLEY presented a petition from Bexford, pray;
ing for the abolition of the Dissenters'
One from.. the hand-loom weavers of a place in Lancashire,
complaining of distress, and one from several inhab.tarits qi
Marylebone in favour.of some provision for the protection
of animals.

Mr. WARRE supported the prayer of the last petition,

Lord SANDON presented a petition from a parish in
Derby for the better observance of the Sabbath. Also a
similar petition from 1,700 persons at Liverpool.
Mr. EWART supported the prayer of the petitions.
An HoN. Mr.staEx' whose name we did not learn, pre-
.sented a petition from Port Glasgow, for an alteration of
the law of church patronage, and several other petitions.
Mr. S. JERNINGHAM presented petitions from Not-
tingham, and two other places, for the better observance of
the Sabbath.

Mr. R. TODD presented several petitions from Honiton
and Ottery St. Mary, for the better observance of the
Sabbath.

Mr. EVE' ART presented a petition from 14,700 inhabi-
tants of Liverpool in favour of an extension of mercy to the
men convicted at Dorchester, and said it would in one day
more have had 10,000 more signatures. They were chiefly
members of friendly societies—men of apeaceable disposition.
The hon. and learned member supported the prayer of the
petition, admitting that the prisoners had violated the late:-
of the law, yet he did not think the Act was intended to
extend to the case of those unhappy men.
Lord SANDON regretted that the present opportunity
given to government was misapplied for holding out some
lenient measures to induce Trades' Unions to give up their
misguided views.
-_ . .

Petitions were presented by Mr. Ewart on the subject of
tobacco importations and the dissenters' grievances ; like-
wise on the subject of tithes, by Mr. French ; Mr.
Guest, for the better observance of the Sabbath.
At ten minutes to Three, _ _ _

Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the house be re-
counted, upon which it was ascertained that but 28 mem-
bers were present, andbusiness was suspended.
The Speaker remained in th chair till the usual hour
for rising.