The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-17 00:00:00

NEW MENIBER.

The SPEAKER here intimated that a new member was
to be sworn.

Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD, the newly-appointed Attor-
ney-General for Ireland, was then introduced, and took
the oaths and his seat for the borough of Ennis.
The debate was then resumed by Lord BERNARD,
who opposed the bill.
Mr HORSMAN said this was a question of much
difficulty and embarrassment, and it was one that ought
to be settledin some decided manner. The subject had been
brought under their notice year after year, that Govere-
meet had at last determined to deal with the measure.
The question of ministers' money was precisely analogous
to Church rates in Eng.and,but the objection to the one
that the professors of one religion should not be called ur -
on to contribute to the religious support of another ap-
plied c qually to the other. Government had given their
support to the proposed settlement of the one question,
•end he did not see how they could withhold it from this.
The hon. gentleman having stated the various objec-
tions to the measure, stated that when he was in Dublin
a very large and influential deputation waited upon him
and informed him that they wished it to be conveyed to
the Government that it had been determined to resist
the payment of this tax, and, ai was his duty, he con.
♦eyed that determination to the Government. But it
was not to be supposed that the Government would
shrink from acting up to their duty and vindicating
the law. But amongst the many omissions the
present act contained was one which was ex.
tremely difficult to overcome. The act stated
that, in cases of non-payment of the tax, the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland was to enforce payment, but the
act contained no machinery to enable him to do so. As
far as the Government could they would take steps to
carry the law out on the subject, but if these persons
were not in a position to pay, it was impossible to com-
pel them to do so. The course the Government
intended to pursue was to see how far the law which had
so lately been passed was calculated to effect the object
for which it was framed. When the Government
had exhausted all the means to enforc3 the pay-
ment of the tax they would be disposed to
give their best consideration to frame a measure to meet
the evil, which would be acceptable to all parties ; but
he did hope that all further legislation would be sus-
pended until it was seen how the present law would
work. The Government would, in the meantime, en-
deavour to frame a measure, which he should introduce
in a future session, if the present law should be found
inoperative.

Mr. NAPIER admitted that he had given a pledge
on this subject to the effect that had been stated, and
he regretted a similar course was adopted in the present
instance by the hon. Secretary for Ire!and. The tax
was a tax upon property, and if the Government ques-
tioned the title of property in church matters they
would shake the very foundation of every description
of property. In respect to the law being inoperative on
the subject, he might observe that the Court of (4:teen's
Bench would issue a mandamus to compel the payment
of the tax. He should oppose the second reading of the
bill and vote for the amendment, that the bill be read a
second time that day sir mon hs:

Mr. FITZGE RAID defended the course the Govern-
ment intended to follow on this que,tion. He said the
law, as far as it was possible, woutd be carried out. But
there was a great difficulty in carrying out the law ; but
in this case corporations, and not individuals, were to
be dealt with, and many cf the Irish corporations did not
possess one atom ofpropaty.Under such circumstances the
legal proceedings would be rendered extremely difficult,
but the law was carried out as far as it was possible to
do 80. The present law was not a property tax, but a
tax on persons,
and the occupation of certain houses
created a certain liability.
Mr. WHITESIDE said hat fhe Government had
admitted, during the present debate, that the law on the
subject was entirely wrong, but the law had been framed
by the supporters of the present Government. The
honourable gentleman the Secretary for Ireland had
promised uezt year he would bring in a

bill to effect the settlement of this quetion,
but the tenure of office by the hon. gentleman till that
period was by no means so certain, as the confidence of
the public was daily decreasing.
Mr. MAGUIRE said the people of Cork had deter-
mined to a man to oppose both by their persons and
property the present law with respect to ministers'
money. lie said the more manly course for the Go-
vernment to pursue was to fairly grapple with
the subject fairly and above-board, and not meet it as
they had done by a long and unmeaning statement from
the Secretary for Ireland. Ile implored the house
to pass this bill, and thereby do an act of justice
to the people of Ireland. Tae noble lord, the Prime
Minister, paid a high compliment to the Roman Ca-
tholics of Ireland during the debate last night, and
yet they intended to keep an insulting measure affect-
ing them on the statute book. (Divide, divide.)
Mr. Sergeant O'BRIEN said the population of Lime-
rick were mainly against the provisions of the bill, and
he should therefore vote for the second reading of the
measure of the hon. member for Cork.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the Government would
have done better if they had plainly stated the course
they intended to pursue. He thought there were
only two courses open to them, 'the first was to exhaust
the law on the subject in Ireland, the other was to adopt
the plan of the hon, gentlemen the member for Cork.
He did not think the sum raised by this tax was worth
the great contention it created, as he believed there was
sufficient means to provide for the Protestant religion
in Ireland from the Protestant Church revenues
without resorting to the means which the
bill of the honouraMe member for Cork pro-
posed to abolish. He should vote with the Govern-
ment on this occasion, and against the bill, but he did
hope that the subject would not long be left in doubt, but
that the Government would either enforce Sir J. Young's
act, or take measures to get rid of the tax altogether,
which course he was also willing to support, and thus
give peace to the people of Ireland.
Mr. FAGAN having replied,
The house divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading of the bill l2l
Against it
Majority
—BO

The bill was consequently lost.
REFORMATORY SCHOOLS (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was road a second time pro forma.
The Exchequer Bills (21,182,7001.) Bill was read a
third time and passed...._..