The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-22 00:00:00

which ought to be one and undivided. He cared not in
what Church it was admitted, but he would not admit that
the saee-dotal authority should be placed before the tempo:
lel, still less the pontifical authority above the regal. It
they did that, they would put in peril toe sovereignty of
their Queen, the freedom of their Church, and the integrity
of their constitution. He thought that the time was come
ht
when the Queen, imitating her illustrious predecessor, might
call upon the House, as she had already done in the Spee
from the Throne, to vindicate her authority. In such a
case, with truth, with honour, and with justice on their
side, he was sure she might appeal to their obedience and
loyalty, and as they were a free people, they should have a
free Queen. - (Loud cheering.)
Mr. ROEBUCK could understand what was meant by a
free people, but he did not understand what the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman meant by a free Queen—what was
till.
relative position of those two powers. The people of
he
country were a great people— among the foremost of
world; they were hardly equalled, certainly not surpaseel
sad,
by any nation on the earth. They had a Sovereign wheel,
all hearts obeyed, before whom they were prepared to kn
and for whom they were ready to die. Was not she, then, ~
free Queen? That was one side of the question. What bao
they on the other? A foreign Prince without power,
without an acre of lend he could call his own what-
ever power he had was that of moral influence.
How could they deal with that influence by Act of Parlia-
ment ? Let them not talk to him, then, of a free Queelp
with such power at her back as this country possess.e
being overborne by an almost wandering poor old in
who came to this country, if he came at all, clothed only
unreal attributes. What had they to fear? He wolTdi
deal with the question only as a political ne. He wqb)ue
not roll himself in the theological mire in which others ae_
flung themselves; he wanted to raise himself and thews et/
e-
ject to dry land, whereon to have some rational __
went. The supremacy that he was prepared to maintain was
he
the supremacy of Parliam-nt, and if that were assail
was quite ready to deal with it. But how did the CO
of the Pope affect the interests of England ? He denied 1e..!
it did. Besides, they must remember that t depositoryrn‘
Catholic religion in former times was the great
1 the
of learning, and that its despotism was founded
power which the learning of the priests gave t‘hvean
ignorant and rule feudal nobles and people.
was discovered, it extended learning among the rria,9.0:,..2_1.:d
then the influence of the priests failed. At present, h
aided by the printing-press, by science, and
they need net be afraid of the Roman Catholic rediee!
le to
Let him ask the Noble Lord what was it he preten
0_
be afraid of ? He feared encroachment on the pert t the
Roman Catholics. In what way ? There had 5
bhee had
(o)pvgnrttithi
alteration from vicars- at). stoic to bishops, and bthen
n oteweeil;tohne.
been told by the Solicitor General there had bell
any'
introduction of the canon-law. Now, be asked,
duibu
body believe that canon law bad been introduce canon
Papal rescript ? And what then was the meaning ot c""
law? That the Roman Catholics were
rules which their consciences submitted to.
was called canon law. It was not enforced
whichtbele ple of
of law. It was no more than a moral code,
the Roman Catholic religion obeyed.--alean) .f -terms.
that the canon law was introduced, was an abuse - e
hi Tv:ars
c whetou certainr
ts
goveTrnheadt
Ile
They called that "law," which was in fact " custom
•"
in
admitted that the Pope had power; but he had no p
had
their courts of law.—(Hear, hear.)
Then, what sleep
the
the Pope done? The Pope who had the power thronuog.
of
vicars apostolic of governing wholly the Roman Cst hes
pointed
T o Ps
say then
England, now said ]the the bishops should be aPP lead of
the clergy ;so that y had election introdeced ins.,
wag
direct nomination by the Pope.—(Hear.) But then u
said there was synodal action ? W action?
a l'es of
He had seen the Wesleyan assemblies—and the assenibacitio.
other Protestant Dissenters. That was synodal reat
—(Hear, hear.) But then he was told there was
ea gr.-
bat was the
difference between the Roman Catholics and th
y
senters ; that the former hat at their head a foreign P
But then they knew that in the Catholic religion theere.shllo_uledr
be an episcopal body—that eiscopal bod derivde
from the r'ope ; but in doing so he was not consider a 5"
temporal prince—he was but a bishop, as the bead of tile,
Roman Catholic Church. - (Hear.) Then it had been
o‘ s !ire
there would be Papal interference with the loyalty„,
alele"
Roman Catholics. He could not help feeling thatt 3
assertion was an unworthy attack on the Roman
In hoee•
thiss
(Cheers from the Roman Catholic Members.)
eje
country the Roman Catholics had always borne with to
calm'
and with meekness their disabilities.—( Hear.) dno
1829 there had been no more loyal, no more bumble, an
mor • docile people than the Roman Catholics of Englanua.a
(Hear.) The Roman Catholics of England did not g
emancipation.—(llear. ) It was gained by the Irishedpeirby
- (Cheers from the Irish Members.) They g,airnriflee the
terrifying the Government.—( Cheers.) They ,
He
conqueror, as he had been called, in a hundred battles. Cs.
said he could not govern the country if the 11°ne bad
tholics were not emancipated. Sir Robert peel, v/"‘" --e
opposed emancipation up to 1829, proposed it at that Wet
because he said it was impossible
country it they persisted in maintaining the q,a"awsci.
(Hear, hear.) And now he asked the oble L0.,6
after its
for them to govern n.
did he believe he could govern the country,
he believe that
enjoying so many years of liberty—did t
the Catholics of Ireland could be induced to remain;„""
with such a Bill as this ?—(Cheers.) Did the No cr-,
Cheers
believe he could enforce his Bill without coercion ?--( se.
Why the Noble Lord's Bill was a mere brutum fulmen—it !Le
hostile without the capacity to attack—it was insult Iv'',
ut the power of injury —(Cheers from the Irish Member,
The Noble Lord's Government depended for sup Pert °lt Le
Irish Friends, and what made the weakness of the Noble Loer
now?—(Cheers from the Irish Members.) Had not "'W.
Noble Lord by this time discovered the great mistake that
he had made ? lid they not think that the Noble Lord b
lieved it to be unwise in him to have departed trom the evil"
nary rule which should have governed his conduct as Priln.
Minister of the country, when he entered into discussion in
a public newspaper ?—(flear. ) The Noble Lord from the
hour that he penned that fatal letter felt the necesearY
consEquences of that most imprudent proceeding.—alear,!
hear.) The Noble Lord had done that which was 110"
only useless, but destructive to his administration.—(lleser:
hear.) All the business of the country was delayed; efere,„-
thing connected with the interests of England Was-
abeyance ; the whole Government was paralysed because the
Irish Members were no longer the friends of the Noble Lord
Cheers. ) Never was there such evidence of their power'
and no doubt they would take advantage of it (Cheers from
the Irish M embers) for in the balance of the parties, and
that balance was almost complete. the preponderating power
was in their hands, and nobody felt that more deeply tinel
the Noble Lord.—(Cheers from the Irish Members.) Who'
but this, he asked, made their country, at that moment"
a spectacle for nations?—(Heir, hear.) On that (the Op
poesition) side of the House they were unable to fort.,
a Government.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord himself
was only a Prime Minister upon sufferance. —(Cheers from
the Irish Members.) The: Noble Lord was taken becaus tithe
(the Opposition) dare not form a Ministry, and they di nc‘
dare because they lied not a majority.—(Cheers.) What WI
it, then, that so shackled the Noble Lord? Why, it w° h—
own most unwise, most unstatesmanlike conduct.—( Bill
Noblewhich was this, the greatest of all blunders—namely, nelie
which falsified the whole life of the Noble Lord. the
c./
Lord had gained power by fighting the battle of the Dissenter!
—the party of the Noble Lord, by fighting the battle
be;
the Roman Catholics from 1800 to 1829, had gained front
admiration of the world. And now what did they hear ft'?
the Noble Lord? an argument which was from the beg'''.
ning to the end an argument against the Bill of 1829
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had taken a retrograde stet);
and he would find that in the attempt to do so, like ulna_
others who had made a similar attempt, that in the enr be
your to stop the onward progress of mankind, he
already
destroyed.— destroyed.— (Hear, hear.) It was quite clear he was
realr'eoble
destroyed.—(Cheers from the Irish Members.) re•-a.,,l'4ere.)
Lord was not the First Minister of the Crown.— (L'"evii
The Noble Lord's Administration was no Administratio _
(Cheers.) The Noble Lord's Government had no powerib;
could do nothing for or against his own opinions ; invidaseveseer
body understood that the moment this discussion
Near.)
the Noble Lord's Administration was at an en"• ques-
t a few days after this question was over, some raniroua
ions affecting the policy of this country would ne,,,h? The
forward, and what then would be the conseealeniThreneed
Noble Lord had offended all his friends. He hat' °
all his liberal friends in England, who had believedure bedttl!t
the cause of civil and religious liberty would be _
neath his banner; and to whom, then, was the Noble ,
to look for support, or by whom would his mrjoritl.7
made? He never saw a greater contrast than in the recept3°.
the other evening by the House of the Right Hon. Barone'.
the Metnb-r for Ripon and the Noble Lord, when the 00e
had concluded and the other rose to addroas the House'
The cheers that greeted the Right Hon. Gentlemen were Ye'
hement, even fierce and unanimous; they were, too, heart,'
cheers, and they were from that (thus Ministerial) side of the
House. The Noble Lord had attempted to answer that
speech, and his only supporters were on that (the Opposition)
side of the House. And what cheers were they ?—damPing
and annihilating to the spirit of the Noble Lord. That was
a most marvellous contrast, and the Noble Lord felt it
•-•"
(Hear, bear)—that his support had been gained from his
ponents, and that his friends were no longer his fries
He looked upon the Bill as the greatest calamity that could
1829 all the bitter animosities of l
happen in this country. He had hoped Bill
of
away. It was at such a time thatre ieglaorndiwnanwluilatdleh'ibsetahmveaanPats:..ak
that most imprudent step; and now the Noble Lord hie.
raised up a spirit which would not be quelled, and th%
outcry had continued, and -
would find those miserable feelings continue long after t
then the last act o ioue
Lord's public life would be in opposition to his pro' ho
career.—(Hear, hear.) Now an attempt to Pot doeweneetee
hierarchy in Ireland would fail.—(Hear, hear.)
was told there ought to be a distinction betweeeencr but ill
and Ireland. In Ireland there were nearly B,ooo,'"eu lope
England the Catholics were few. If there were dauger iou, a
land, and in England there was none, in carrYlroceed"
prosecution, then it was merely spite and bigotrkomw he said
f the Noble
ing against the Roman Catholics in Englandh. would effect
it would be impossible to make any
the one without affecting the ()1at.:071 He be-
lle would not detain the House
rove wholly
inefficient.
lieved that the Bill in itself would prove whollY
would never be
He believed that if the Bill became
law
it
derstanding
injurious; and the Roman Catholic Members, understanding
Minieters
11e.ar, hear.)
the power that they had, would use it to coerce t
but then he said that, in spite of all the efforts of
w.,„„
Lord and his supporters, and in spite of all their
t.1)1"9”
their power would fail, and their Ministry
.fall.—(
Ilogr a feW
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL felt desirous to „,,l, sae
observations on the subject of the debate and the(3l3:B con'
he pledged the House that in doing so he should b
Noble
the
rise-ase b 1
he possibly could. With the observation ne
t House
the Honourable Member for Midhurst, and assenteed
io:;70
the almost universal voice on that side of wee no,
namely, that in the present attempt at legislation Ite
obghte
the wish or intention, in any respect whatever, 11
l'ritual ac-
est or most remote degree. to interfere with the ePtlhbua
lion or consaientious feelings of any Reagan looked tlP.a
that country, he entirely agreed. They feelings
the purely spiritual actions and conscienti°utsh e
of that, as of every other class
°fa
matter of
munity, as sacred principles, but it was measure.
the utmost importance to consider whether the nession
adopted by the Pope—the act, as t was called, of ;Igleattell,
—had not some temporal action, some influence 1 would
other than spiritual, which might have, and whie"
have, a prejudical effect ou the temporal liberties of V,e1.01,
classes in this country, and if they found that it had 7_esi
action and such influence, it was the iuty of the Goverarn......
to interpose to prevent that effect from taking plece,he
(Hear, hear.) The only question, then, was whether
S
meausure proposed would be sufficient to repel and P 1.70,
Melnher that aggression. It would be his aim to show that the PI
visions of the Bill were amply effective. The Hon. t the
for Sheffield, in the course of his speech, said tba,, he
canon law did not exist in this country, and that it wouleowe
idle to suppose that the Pope would introduce it.,..?ntle,
with all respect for the Honourable and Learned Gen the
man, he was much mistaken—he did not understand
operation—and he (the Attorney-General) would endavouee;
to explain the mode in which the canon law would
into operation in this country, in accordance with
the.Pt
vision of the Papal rescript. The canon lec:;riea
was universally admitted, could only be t 914
into effect by
bishops of territorial titles. He need 11C, nog
that there may be bishops in the Catholic Church.
bishops of territorial districts. There was a distinction
_..e
tween bishops exercising ecclesiastical functions.
en
bishops of territorial districts, and it was, as he bad ifTsij
stated, by the latter that the canon law could be Pt