The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. July 9.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.
HOME MADE SPIRITS IN BOND BILL.

On the order of the day for the second reading of
this Bill, several petitions were presented in its favour.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pre-
sented a petition from the spirit dealers of London
against the Bill.
Lard NAAS then moved the second reading.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER op-
posed the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion. To carry this Bill would be an act of gross
injustice to a large branch of trade. There was a wide
difference between the mode of levying the Excise and
the Customs duties: the one was levied in the first in-
stance, while the other was not collected until the
latest possible moment prior to the period of consump-
tion. Unless Government pursued that course a con-
siderable addition of labour, and of course of expense,
would be thrown upon the Excise Department, owing to
the extended supervision that would be necessary to
protest the revenue. This Bill was introduced on the
plea that colonial spirits, by the present system, en-
joyed
an undue advantage over home-made spirits ; but
so far from that being the case, the fact was that during
the list tour years, while the consumption of home-
made spirits had greatly increased, that of
colonial spirits bad very seriou.ly fallen off.—
(Hear.) Well, then, the ground of injustice being
swept away, what other argument could be urged in
favour of this Bail? None whatever; but on the con•
trary, innumeraole objections besides that of diminishing
the revenue could be urged against it. It this Bill were
carried, it would be inflicting a great practical it justice
on the English distiller, in so far as by the existing law
the mode of levying the duties in Ireland was very
different to the mode of collecting it in England, and if
the law were changed in the manner proposed by this
Bill, the Irish distiller would possess an undue advan-
tage over his competitor in Miss country. On all consi-
deratiens, therefore, it was his duty to oppose the second
reading and he hoped the House would concur with him
in desiring to throw the Bill out.
Lord NAAS denied that the home-made spirit trade
was on the increase. The injustice which he complained
of was that the foreign and colonial producers could ex-
post without paying duty, bat the home-made spirit
dealer could nor, and virtually the present restrictions upon
his trade altogether prohibited him from engaging in the
export trade. He disputed the position of the Chancellor,
that if the law were changed on this Bill it would lead
to great loss in the revenue. On the contrary, he firmly
believed that it would increase the returns from the
spirit duties, but admitting that it would diminish the
revenue the home-made spirit dealers were quite ready
to submit to a esiight addi4onal increase iu the duty
they paid for the sake of obtaining this advantage of
bonding their goods.—(hear, hear.) He agreed with
the Govirnment, that the duties imposed on
spirits ought to be the last the House should
think of touching in any scheme for reducing the taxa-
tion of the country, but it was not for the sake of ob-
taining any remission of duty that the home-made spirit
dealers promoted this Bill. It was because the present
law interfered with their trade upon an unfair principle,
and he could only account for the opposition of the
Engtish distillers to an unnecessary alarm that
their exportations were likely to be diminished by the
Bill, or to a desire to play the part of the dog in the
manger. They did not want the change themselves,
though it would do them no harm, and they were deter-
mined that nobody else should obtain it.
Mr. BR AMSTON opposed the Bill, and moved that
it be read a second time this day six months.
Mr. BASS wanted to know where the supporters of
this Bill could hope to find an export trade for British
spirits ? It wag impossible for the home-made spirit
dealer to compete with the foreigner abroad, and really
he for one was quite at a loss to understand why they
should he so anxious for the passing of the Bill. The
fact, however, was, that they did not want to compete
with the foreign or colonial producer, but to secure an
unjust advantage over the English distiller, and he hoped
the House would not sanction such a modest
proposal. The whole body of English distillers were
not enacting the character attributed to them by the
Noble Lord who had moved the second reading, but they
regarded this Bill as a direct attack upon themselves,
and they were therefore justified in resisting it.
Mr. REYNOLDS should be willing to take the Hon.
Member's opinion if this Bill related to ale instead of
spirits, but he could not help feeling that
the Honourable Gentleman had been poaching
upon another maw's manor, and what he said should be
receiv. d with great caution. Now he would take the
liberty of mentioning one fact, which should induce the
House, and particularly the Hon. Member to whom he
had just referred, to pars this Bill. In Scotland there
were 156 distilleries, in Ireland 56, but in England
there were only 11, and the wishes of the
latter were to be consulted in preference to those of
the former. These who opposed this Bill were anxious
to continue the monopoly of the English distillers. The
question for the House to decide, divested of statistics
and technicalities, was nothing more nor less than this—
shall the Irish and Scotch discill,ra be placed on the
same footing as the English distillers? He thought they
ought, and, therefore, he should continue to complain
until full justice was done.
Mn. GOULBURN could not consider the question
before the House one of minor or small importance, be-
cause if the Bill were agreed to it would give an ad-
vantage to one class of distillers over another, and
lead to great dissatisfaction. It was no light
matter to effect partial changes in a duty which
yielded between eight and nine millions of revenue,
and was readily and willingly paid into the Exchequer.
Besides there was no other tax levied that was so little
objectionable in principle as the one placed upon
spirits. The Hon. Member had said that the present law
cramped the enterprise of Scotch and Irish distillers,
and prevented their spirits being consumed in England,
but the fast was, that ona-third of the whole consump-
tion in the latter country was furnished from the stills of
Ireland and Scotland. His conviction was, that the mea-
sure would be dangerous not only to the revenue and the
interests of the general body of spirit dealers, but not
promote the interests of the distillers in whose favour it
was said to be proposed.
Mr. J. A. SMITH considered that it was impossible to
justify the inequalities which now existed in the duties
os spirits in this country.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading ... ... 166
Against it ... ... 194
Majority against the —2B
ARREST OF ABSCONDING DEBTORS.

The Arrest of Absconding Debtors' Bill was read a
second time.

LAW OF EVIDENCE.

The Law of Evidence Amendment Bill was also read
a second time.

IRISEI ECCLESIASTICAL RESIDENCES.
The Ecclesiastical Residences (Ireland) Bill wen
through Committee.

CHURCHES AND CHAPELS (IRELAND) BILL.
The Churches and Chapels (Irelan) Bill also went
through Committee.
UNITED CHURCH OF ENGLAND AND
IRELAND BILL.
This Bill also went through Committee.
PHARMACY BILL.

Thin Rill went, pro forma, through Committee.
Ttle Turnpike Acta Continuance Bill was read a te
cowl time,

VALUATION (IRELAND) BILL.
the Ontbemotion that the Speaker do leave the chair, on
House going into Committee on the Valuation
(Ireland) Bin,
Mr. SOULLY stated that, as ho understood, the prin-
ciple of the Bill was to value Lands and tenements in
a scale founded Ireland on upon the prices of agricultural
produce in that country, and to take the value for the
next fourteen years, aca, rding to those prices as fixed in
a scale by the Act.' '
He had no objection that the price
of agricultural producehatf should be an ingredient in the
~tuatien of land; it were to be so, he question
must be aakt d of the Governmentlr whether the scale could
be called correct or eo with the prices at
present existing in Irelarneds
from thirty six towns, having
P"lldeintigad moved for returns
reference to the prices of
agricultural produce; but tbese were so mystified that
he thought the recognised organ of the Government in
Ireland had justly remarked that no dependence could be
placed on the figures, and any scale -
derived from them
must be totally worthless as a criterion of agricultural
to h
prices in Ireland. He suggested Right Hon.
of
expediency
Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland
of introducing into Ireland a mode
produce, r ascertaining
the scertaining
the average prices of agricultural
as existed in England, where these average
titaz prices I
were used to ascertain the value
for other purposes. With resp'tct to the ' parti-
cular provisions of the Bill, ho called attention to the
circumstance, that while the Lord-Lieutenant had power
to appoint *
sub-commissioners, and the chief commis-
sioner to
. to a mere
appoint valuators,the ratepayers had no right
to name a
arbitrary-cBoZe individual. He objected
the Bill proposed, and
thought it nt„ of appeal, such as
51., which bwattareus that those small holdings below
should be therto been exempt from county-cess,
of the Bill was brought under taxation. The entire machinery
forms and verytechnical
handed that the meal's
complicated; there were numerous
oints to be observed, and he appro.
country. As matters stood
luation Bills for Ireland, and would be distasteful to the
they had had enough of va-
luation
of the presentithe thought the complicated
worse than otherwise. He Bill would rather make matters
luation in each county, with aougifist a commission of va-
barony to barony, would lead tsou—cien
correct valuation in
t staff, to go from
Ireland, and he hoped the adoptiao
Bill of last
would not be overlooked by Govern mof nom© such scheme
important, both as regarded the Registrationn -en"
estCablished
in Ireland,
of ished in
It was most
session and the Encumbered Estates
that a correct valuation should be
country; but Ire objected to the mode that
4.id down in the present Bill. It would depend it
the view of the measure taken by the Iriseli;lacd Upon
whether he would move in the present stage that
htrebasl
be postponed; and, therefore, is the meantime
tented himself with expressing his individual oppbesi7ion;
to the measure.
Sir D. NORREYS hoped the Bill would not be
pressed by the Government. The valuation in Ireland
bad been going on for 21 years, and had cost no less
than 270,000/, paid out of the county-rates, in addition
to the sltiary of the Commissioner, which was paid out
of the Consolidated Find ; yet, six counties still re-
mained uuvalued.—(Hear.) Notwithstanding all this,
the Government was obliged to bring in a Bill to com-
mence the valuation on a new poinciple ; but he eon-
tended that in the present unsettled state of property in
Ireland such a step was a most unwise one. The gross-
emstwi,njustice would be done by this Bill, especially to
.1. property in Ireland. Previous to 1348 the valua-
-61,-.0 uf I.btl ~. 2
1110 wee of ho 225 pot cent. under its real value, and in
Wit pr
oputy about 33 per cent. yap otruck