The Sun.
London, England, 1802-11-25 00:00:00

lAIPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF PEERS,

WEDNESDAY) NOV. 24.

A Meeting took place at two o'clock this day, previous
to Their Lordships presenting their Address to His Majesty.
The Marquis of Sn Lissuity informed their Lordships
that it was His Majesty's pleasure to receive their Address
this day at three o'clock.
A variety of arrangements were made relative to the hear-
ing of Scotch Appeals ; and some proceedings respecting
private business took place.
Lord Vis Count IsletsoN, who seconded the Address, and a
few Peers attended.
At about half after two, the LORD CHANCELLOR and the
Peers-present, having previously adjourned till to-morrow,
proceeded in State to St. James's, with the Address of the
I-louse to His Majesty.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

WEDNESDAY, NOV. 24..

A Petition was presented by Sir Wm. LEMON,
on behalf of the Prisoners confined for Debt, in the
County Prison of Cornwall. Ordered to be laid on
the Table.

Several Petitions were presented on behalf of cer.
tain Maltsters of Wellington, in the County of
Salop, and Tewksbury, in Gloucestershire, and
Bridgnorth, &c. and other places, complaining of
certain hardships, which they alledged they feel in
consequence of some Provisions of a late Aft of Par-
liameot, passed for the purpose of regulating their
trade.—Ordered to be laid on the Table.

Some other private Petitions being received, the
House proceeded on the business of EleEtion Peti-
tions, when Nine were presented, which were or.
dered to be taken into consideration, in the follow-
ing order.

Great Grimsby, 9th December next.
Penryn, loth January,
Royal Burgh of Strauraer, 26th January.
Nottingham, t4th December.
Barnstaple, 16th December.
Chippenham, two Petitions, 27th January.
Carmarthensh►re, Ist February.
Coventry, zest December.
Bridgewater, z3d December.

Mr. TRENCH then brought up the Report of the
Address on the King's Speech ; which was read.
On the question fbr the second reading,

Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he was desirous of
taking the earliest opportunity he could of deliver-
ing a few observations on the very important sub_
jets now before the House, the more especially, as
certain sentiments of his had been alluded to by
a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. CANNING) on the
preceding night. The sentiment which he had
uttered at the time alluded to, which was that of
the discussion of the Definitive Treaty, and they
might perhaps have been rather lightly uttered,
were such, however, as he was ready to avow.—
The Address seemed to him, to speak the language
which it was proper for the House to hold, for it
w,:s not right to push matters to extremity with re-
gard to Continental Affairs : there was a pro-
priety in saying, on the part of His Majesty, that
we should keep our eyes on the Affairs of the Con-
tinent, and be ready to take such measures as cir-
cumstances .may require—and that was properly
assented to in the Address. If any thing gave
suspicion to him in this matter, it was an allusion to
the standing Policy of this Country, which, upon,
a eArecut and atten:ive perusal of the matter, and
much refieftion, he had formed an opinion upon
which he was not likely, on a sudden to abandon.
It. was this, That that House and this Country had
been far too forward to engage in War, and Conti-
nental Connections : to enter into engagements,
the full extent of which we could not foresee,
and many of which had been, to the highest degree
injurious to this Country, having wasted much of
its blood and treasure, and that without procuring
in return, the least benefit to us.—Therefore, if he
were to take the Speech in the spirit of a Special
Pleader, he- should doubt how far the words of it,
or the Address upon the subjea of the Policy he
alluded to was right ; but, in a general sense, he
had no difficulty in expressing his approbation of
the sentiments it contained. But it had been said,
that he had uttered, on a former occasion, a senti-
• rnent purporting that, in no circumstances ought
this Country to form any Continental Conflation--
a sentiment which he never did utter, nor did he
believe he ever should utter it, for it was going to.
an extreme which he never approved ; it being his
persuasion that almost all good policy lay between
extreme points on either side, as most virtue was
said to be in a medium ; but he had no difficulty
in saying, that under the present circumstances of
this Country, it would be wise in us to pause
before we renewed any Continental Alliance or Con-
nexion ; for if the experience of the last ten years
had not made us at least diffident upon these pro_
.jetts, it must have been most unhappily thrown
away. He hoped, therefore, we should, in the
language of the Address, keep our eyes on what
was going forward. Our interests were deeply
implicated in this matter. It was indeed desirable
that se should prevent France by land, as well as
by sea, from extending her power ; but then we
were to look to expediency, and not depend on any
speculations of Statesmen. Need he say any thing
on the shortsightedness of men. How had the
greatest, and the wisest of men, been deceived in
their conjefture ! Hos,v had their speculations been
turned into foolishness Indeed some of the most
profound Politicians had overlooked things which
men of the plainest, and almost meanest capacities,
bad foreseen. There was something in the nature
of the study of a profound Politician, which led
him sometimes into errors, which men of a nar-
rower capacity escaped; and here he was led to re-
member and reflect on a very splendid and eloquent
speech which his Noble Friend (Lord flAwicEs-
slimy) made in that House, and which could not
be too much admired, as it gave earnest of those'
great talents which had since been exercised in the
bervice of his Country, and which had been so
great an ornament, as well as guide to the Debates
f that House ; he could not help, however, r‘;‘,-
fieding on the miscarriages which may attend the
schemes of all those who are accustomed to a great
chain of political combinations in their thoughts
and sentiments. The speech, of his Noble Friend,
although he most unaffdledly admired the know-
ledge it displayed, as well as brilliancy, on the oc-
casion to which he alluded, naturally occurred to

him, when he was considering or human foresight,
especially on the events likely to arise out of the
policy of States. The truth of the matter was this t
Politicians calculated on the continuance of the ope-
ration of certain causes, and a given numbet of
events ; when one of these events happening to be
altered, the whole combination was at an end, and
with it, of course, all the reasoning that was built
upon such combination. Nay, the whole systeni
built upon such a combination, might be. reversed
by one event. The whole state of a great number
of things might be altered by a single event :—so
that after a great deal of Speculation and Political
sagacity, we had discovered that all the 'trouble we
had taken, might have been very well spared, and
the Country have saved vast quantities of blood and
treasure. The cost might have been well employed
in the improvement, instead of the destruction, of
mankind. He illustrated this by adverting to
the circumstances at the Peace of Utrecht, 'of which
the danger at one time so much apprehended, shift_
"ed, at once, by a single accident, and changed the
whole complexion of political affairs, as they re-
garded the House of Austria, Spain, and France,
and .which, from threatening all Europe with the
horrors of War, produced a Peace fur thirty years,
in which we were united with France for five years.
Whether any policy might again unite us, he could
not say, but that was min-impossible. Upon these
topics there was abundant matter for discussion, to
chew how little was to be depended upon human
calculation in the affairs of States, and how much
was the mere effect of accident, that was to say, up_
on events which human foresight could not
penetrate. These were considerations which ought
to make us cautious in relying on the advantages of
Continental Conneaions, which might depend on a
combination of numerous events. It had been
said of him, that he had uttered a sentiment which
had about it perhaps some unseasonablesmerriment,
nor was it totally without its sober sadness. The
phrase that conveyed the sentiment he alluded to
was this—" That the People of this Country are
too honest to have much to do with Continental
Connections." His Right Honourable Friend,
(Mr. CANNING) who had animadverted on that
expression, ought to have made some allowance for
his situation. He had occasion to go home- to his
Constituents and to address them on the subject of
their pressure, for such must be the effect of
every War to such a class as his Constituents,
and particularly in the last War. He therefore
ought to have some indulgence in speaking as the
Representative of such a class of persons as his
Constituents were. It was not unreasonable to say
that we wanted to recruit our strength, which was
much wasted both in blood and treasure, and there-
fore, if he made use of an odd expression it was not
matter of great blame. But the truth of the matter
was this ; he had no apology to make for the ex_
. pression which had been so quoted and animad-
verted upon, and he was so far from making any
apology for the assertion, that he was now about
to repeat aod affirm it ; and it was a sentence to
which he called the attention of the House, and
particularly that of His Majesty's Ministers. He
said again, that the People of this Country are too
honest to have much to do with Continental Con-
neftions. He said this because we are alWays
faithful to our engagements, they almost always
faitniess to us ; at least always so when it appears
to them to suit their interests—for it was part of
the general System of the Policy of the Continent
to pay no attention to Political Engagements when
it is in the least degree convenient to neglect
them. Of the truth of this there were many
instances ; a striking one was, that of the
Pragmatic Sanaion, in which, in the course
of 'a few years, every Power engaged in it de
serted its engagement, England alone excepted.
As to the last three we had had with F ranee,
to use the strong . language of another person,
the ink which recorded these engagements was
hardly dry when they meditated a breach of them.
In a word, the principle on the Continent seemed
to be, that of paying no attention to political en_
gagements for a moment longer than an observance
of them was convenient. Seeing this, and feeling
the effea of it, he would ask, whether it was too
much to say, that the People of England ought to
be cautious in the engagements which they enter
into ? We certainly ought to be cautious in these
things, for we must keep our engagements whether
they be convenient 05. not, whatever others may do
with theirs. He was unwilling to say any thing
concerning the last War ; but he entreated the
House to consider what was likely to be the result
of a Confederacy with any of the Powers which we
had already been engaged with. We had been en-
gaged in as powerful a Confederacy as ever was
formed, and upon a subject as interesting as ever
was contemplated - by any State ; and on the part
of some of the Confederates, the ties of consan-
guinity were added to those of general policy ; for
Austria had family motives in the Confederacy.
Russia, Prussia, Spain, Sardinia, and indeed every
Power in Europe had at some time or other be-
- longed to this great Confederacy. But how did
it happen ? Did not every one of these Powers
get out of the Confederacy as soon, or, as it were,
steal out of it.; nor could it he otherwise, while
they were ailing on different views, so different,
that some of them were more afraid of 'each other
than they were of the Enemy they had united to
oppose. In 1797, was not the Court of Vienna in-
duced to quit us ? How did that Court behave to_
Wards us upon that occasion ? Did it discover any
extraordinary fidelity towards this Country ?
Did they give us a polite intimation upon
that occasion of what they were about to do ?
No such thing. We could not know for many
months, what the Treaty was between it and France.
It was lodged in the breast of the Austrian -Cabi-
' net; but when it came our, there w.as no wonder
it was so long concealed, for it disclosed the utmost
perfidy with regard to us. So with regard to the
German Indemnities, no regard was paid to any en-
gagements with us. From all this Continental Po-
licy of Faithlessness, we had. only to determine to
embark no .further than- we can see our way. He
then took a view of the injustice, with which the
claims of inferior Powers had been totally disregard.
ed in the system of Indemnities, which he censured
as a base and profligate system of policy ; and pass_
. ei from that subjel to another, which was the

Treaty lately entered into between France and
Turkey. One of the stipulations of which was,
that France should grantee the Integrity of
Turkey, for all time to come. He had heard
it said, that among the alterations which the .
French had introduced, that of changing the mean-
ing of words was one, so that now, No may be made
to mean Yes, and Yes No. So that when the French
say, they will guarantee the Integrity of the Turk-
ish Empire for all time, • they.mean, they. will give
away part to any Power they please, upon having
an equivalent, and that they will keep the remain_
der themselves. Such was the nature of the. en- .
gagements they made with States ; yet we must ob-
serve ours if we made any. At the time when the •1:
last great Confederacy was formed in the late War,
there appeared to be as much reason for observing
it as there ever was for observing any Confederacy,
yet the moment it appeared convenient to them, they ,
abandoned it, one by one. Prussia, indeed, a voSved.
itself in a manly manner ; the rest abandoned, • but
not so openly. There was no wonder in the aban-
donment of the Confederates, for the truth was, that
each of the Confederates had some subordinate object
more at heart, than the great and general objea, and
if that subordinate objcml could be gained, the great
and general °Ned was given up—So that, in faet,
the great and general object of Confederacy against
the common foe, was the pretext for an affeCted
Union, whereas, in fad, each of the Confederates
had an object of his own, and that gained, every
thing was at an end.—Having illustrated this head of
his Speech, by reference to events in the I fistory of
the last War, he proceded to observe on the proba-
ble effed of the New Confederacy, and expressed
an apprehension that it might be dissolved, as far
as regarded Austria or Russia, by the granting, by
France, for an equivalent of course, to either, but
particularly to Russia, a certain part of Turkey—
but by giving part to the one, and part to the other,
both might become hostile to us-.--We had seen that
once already, in the course of the last War—nor
was a projed like this unlikely to enter the head of
a Russian Statesman—nor was it Unlikely that the
Parties should ad upon it. What then should we do ?
Take care not to form any Engagement, unless for
present Adions Not to form any Connedion that
was to be of distant Execution by Powers, the good
faith of whom we had reason to be diffident of. Not
to enter into a Combination we have reason to ap_
prebend may he dissolved without-any regard to our.
Interests, and that we had reason to be diffident of.
He called on the House to infer from the experience
of the last fourteen years of Continental Affairs in
particular.• As to the reason why Turkey had not
been partitioned out long ago, he quoted the autho-
rity of Montesquieu, that it had not yet appeared to
be the Interest of France to do so. He• then rook
a view of the Partition of Poland, which, .he said,
exhibited the most disgusting scene that was ever
exhibited in the Annals of the World, in ancient or
modern days, which he made use of to shew how
little reliance could be placed in the Declarations of
States. He then proceeded to take a view of the
policy which it was the real Interest of this Coun-
try to pursue, and differed totally from the senti-
ments which had been expressed by Mr. WIND-
HAM, upon that subject—That Right Hon. Gentle-
man had declared that, upon a full view of our situ-.
ation, War appeared to him to be the better course
of the two. Now he would ask what we could ex,
pee/ from War,—( Hear ! Hear! Pow Mr. Fox).
—Mr. WILBERFORCE continued, and observed,
that in the last War we had taken all that was
Likeable, if he might he allowed the expression.
And what could we do but take again what we had
agreed to give up ? And what should we be the
better if another Peace was agreed within fifty
miles of Vienna, or at the Capital ? What could
we get by prolonging the War ? What could we
hope more than to he put into the situation in
which we were at the conclusion of the 'Peace ?
That was the best side of the pidure : but suppose
we were to try the worst—Were the People of this
Country so ready to burst with. prosperity as to he
eager for War? Or did it appear on a calm view of our
situation, that a War was necessary- for us at this
motnent ?—He apprehended not, and he could not
help thinking, that were it not for some immove.
able prejudice of Mr. WINDHAM, a man of his en-
larged understanding, could not see political events
and affairs in the light he did. Before we were
engaged again in War, we. should look at our
Revenue, and see that it be improved ; we should
look the whole of our situation in the face—look
at, and provide against all our dangers ; attend to
the dearest interest of our Country; but we should
consider wherein that interest consists, Let us re-
member, that dear as are our Army and Navy, our
Revenue, our Trade, and our. Commerce, and all our
Resources, that yet above all our Army, above all
our Navy—that was to say, above all our Soldiers
—aye, and above all our Sailors too—obove all our
Commerce, and above all our Wealth, and the pre-
paration which that wealth enabled us to make,
there was one more important than all the rest to a
free Country, and that was the disposition of the
People, that was, it was inure important to a
State than all the other advantages •put together,
that its Government should possess the hearts of/he
People.—[Hear ! Hear ! Hear ! from sorne parts
of the House.] Aye, hear, and feel the force of
it, said Mr. Wit. BERFORCI : but he begged leave
to warn Ministers against the possible event of cre-
ating a clamour, for War, by exciting the resent-
ment of the People, against some -detestable ads of
tyranny, in another-Power, and of taking advan-
tage of it, to involve the Country in a War; the
effects of which, when the People, began to reflect,
would be dismal. He recommended this sentiment
to Mr. WINDHAM, and still more to Ministers.—
He intreated that they would, as far as possible, in.
form the People of their• situation ; give a right-
feeling of their danger; observing, that if they
hurried on the People to War, without this caution,
they would deserve the severest censure, and, he had
almost said, the execration of their Countrymen. He
thought that Ministers aded on the true policy of this
Country,by endeavouring to restore to it the blessings
of Peace.. He trusted they would continue to at on
the same principle. He hoped they would turn their
thoughts to all.species of Internal Improvements, to
(Economy, to the Reformation of Abuses, to the
improvement of the Education of Youth, as the best
wax to improve Morals, to the Redress of 411 spQ.

eies of Grievances, as the Lest wriv contincettube
attachment of the whole People to that COW ce
tion and State of things, that rendered us at °°3
the -Envy and the Admiration of the whole w°l't
and marked us out as a People enjoying the greateep
Blessing it had yet pleased Providence to bestow uas
Mankind—a Government, under which LibertY
enjoyed, and Property protected, and all the C°,'"e;
forts of Human Life better secured, than any
Age or Country had vet felt. With all these BiOci
sings, and with all this Power to preserve than an
t
sense to enjoy them, he could.not help wishing•trli
we might try the advantages of Peace, and ava.
ourselves of them, and shun all indefinite Conti
nental ConneCtions. Above all, to enter
no engagements hastily or precipitate)}',
the ground of any supposed readiness. in the
Fehilf
for hostility, on account of some recent instance'.
flagrant injustice, He wished rather triat the sentr
meats of the middle class of Society, who, gener''i"ij
speaking, were the best informed, and who h''t
and who felt an immediate .and direa identity °,l
interest with the Public at large--a class of 'Di%
whose opinion, although never negleaed in
Lountry , had not perhaps all the weight it cleserve';
lie concluded with observing, that if this CO
was .taken by Government, we should have nOtl"°b'
to fear from the enormous size of the French I
,public, although now with the annexation of Fir;
Mont, the Italian Republic, Helvetia' and Hallanhe
What if they were fifty millions of men—did t"1
constitute the strength of the Chief Coosa' °
• France ? Rather his weakness, if left to: then'
selves, for multitudes of them must hate the system
by which they are become aubjea to their prese/e,
yoke—Time, •therefore, would remove all arr,„;"
pension, in this respeft. It was natural to exlel'.
that if this unwieldy mass was left to itsrlf--it woulY
in time, change its condition—it could not be otherr
wise, for moral causes were certain of their -°5
feds, whereas the effect of human policy was alv°,4/
uncertain. The way to produce.the dissolution °.
this mighty Power; was to leave It:to its Ole
course. 'Use way to unite it, was; to attack it 1)(t!
hostile force. The first and immediate effect w`' Dust:
be, that of raising a force, by Requisition of Duc
and Money, throughout the whole. of -thoSe •Obe''.•
tcri'•i"t'ories.one. —Our policyWas-tdati
watchful and cautious, with regard to others
with resped to ourselves, industrious in the Impont',
17
ment of all our Resources. It was upon thesC
neral sentiments that he assented to the Addresh'-;ei
General GASCOY NE, referring to what
mog
been said on a former night respeeiing the flourlsc."o-0.
stare-of the-Revenue, the Manufaaures, tO
meree of this Country, said, Eliot he was Wl:l'l,k
hear so ftvourable an account from so respeNl
tic
and intelligent a quarter (Mr. A:6DisiOr-ota) 0` ed
Revenues and Manufaftures ; but he appreherl;,
there might be some mistake imthe representatt.e
given of cur Commercial Prosperity. That deSeillof
clots' did not apply 'to the most important branclibe •
all, he meant the West India Nand's. Since
Conclusion of Peace, apressUre had fallen with Ve1.1.,
severity on the Carrying Trade particularly, wilier
diminished it at this. time one third of its fortsra
value. Of this, however, he would say no
suv•
at present,as he should have a statement on that 'e
jet to lay before them in the course of the n-„id
week. He admitted, , that though nothing'''‘°var
be more to be reprobated than to commence•
for the.interest of Manufaaurers or Merchant''
iay
thing could justify a War but its being neces:the
for the Public Safety ; and he was certain th 3 1 to
manufailurers and people in trade were toa.lit'e-, Idatie
wish for such a thing ; and that they hail .003-
nothing to afford a just ground for such an insi
and
tion. He hoped, however, that the language feel-
spirit shewn in this debate, would manifest difie,aln
ings of the Country., and deter the First Coast"
of -
the prosecution his designs. incej•
Mr. ELLIOT said, nothing should. havel'll-seatf•
him to obtrude himself upon their notice at Preenor
but the alarming crisis in which he felt the C°'rests.
to be involved, and before which all other i"te-d
faded away from the attention. Our neare,tofe2c
clearest interests were at stake. It behove"
jolte' a
Land-owners seriously to consider if their an
tances were not in danger ; and Manufaftute I•iao
r',,, to
Merchants to reflea whether they were per;
enjoy in security the fruits of their industrYt
never was a period which more imperionslY 000
for the deepest deliberations of all persons
told
stir
public trusts were committed. They slwli it'
the danger to the bottom ; they had to .sel're.ot ot-
guage it, and exhibit it in every possible POll tilts
vittoe, and in all its bearings and relations: •coo'.
they were loudly called upon to do, that the.oo, to
try should be prepared to proportion its exeruftoeo
the extent of its ( a
inger, nd meet it with the 0 sbeoi
of its force. it would enable and induce aStoted!,
the Enemy that we were far irons being exha oun
that our resources were still, and would be osess
always equal to our wants, and that we still.eacP
that greatest of ail resources. in times of (..'gccio'
a firm, Undaunted, generous, and persevering
as f.051.'
rage. This led hiin to advert, as shortly
ble, to the events that happened within the
sioa
ot
interval of a few months, since the ,last
Parliament. That short period, however, e' roes
to us a very awful lesson. What was the Po OV5r;
of France within that period ? We saw Sratiatopire
thrown, Kingdoms swept away, whole Ft over::
fall in ruins before it, end all the Cootinen
to 1
whelmed in a Revolution as dangerous
ion• eta
opinion, as would be an internal conY6' oit,
was impossible to look at the map with? behur, over
ing with terror Kingdoms and States "tireylrYdrr-iiic:
away, and added to the mass of French ag
.
ment. We have there to lament the rota , pop,.
cey
of once happy Sovereignties and Starc'e, fon.
transferred to (life:trent countries, and th one
05" 5 30
tions of all Governments shAken to theirthe oe-
der the auspices of one ereCted on q^he I
(Order' 00111
depredations. of Property and tr, she
' culiar marks of hostility against this
coon
ilonneni'e4
by France were to be seen the, a saali°
the Ally
made of the German Empire; tvillott netora
elves
co-operation on the pirt An.tri:l, En
t° oors
onte3'
of Great- Britain on the Coo tio ,`• ent• -
CO 7.3111
in particular, so far from maleing.,tr'coreilt-idalloni
tifin of this proceeding to the King- e
Olee'reoloY, c the
Avho was himself a Sovereian 4-3pCI • riCe °'
nd a 'lee°
•
' therefore, as an Ally of AustriAt "',
C 4.•
Empire, interested in. the arr,ing

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