The Sun.
London, England, 1805-07-09 00:00:00

I.I4PERIJL I?fIRLI,IItfENT.

•
HOUSE 01' PEERS,
mownky,-Jur.x
Most of the Bills on the table were forwarded a
stage. ,
On the Motion of the Marquis. of Buetz.t.'"tO HAN,
several iiciditional Papers relating to the Duke of
AthoWs Bill were, ordered.
' On the Motion of Lord Et.t.ENiwßontm other
Papess relating to this subject, already on the:l'able,
• were ordered to be printed. •
Lord o ta.aisrn wished the second retiling of this
Bill to be deferred, to give time to consider the mat):
•
ter cont.:ruled...in the Papers. • • •
.4, This gave rise to a conversation on ;he point of
order, in Which the Marquis of BucKt;GnAN' and
HoeLatni spoke 'On one side, and Lord Mut,-
oita vfi and they Earl of WEsTmolit,AND en the other.
ti The LORD CHANCELLOR stated, that there
was no Order except that the, Lords be summoned.
'was,tbr any Noble Lord .who thoupt himself
• sufalently acquainted With the grounds of the Bill
to move' the the second reading ; and then any other
Noble Lord who was not so satisfied., may move to:
defer it
The Earl of ItESTMORLAND went at length
into) thee circumstances of the case of the Noble
Claimant, lle argued that the necessity of giving
up the Sovertigrity of the Island was so pressed'upin
as to 'make it amount almost to
compulsion. ' The coIIIJY and the inveAment
Of it, .were not regulated with that care of all the
rights- of the persons interested which Parliament
generally bestowetrou suchtransaCtions. Even the
common form of examining the Duchess of Aaron,
separately from her Lord, to know•whether her con.
sent was free,. had not been-resorted to. :Ile thought
the justice and liberality of Parliament concerned in
soaking up the compensation to totuething more
• adequate to the value of what had been ceded to
the Public. He moved that' the; Bill bo now read a
seCOrid time. Most of their Lordships most be filly
azquainted with. the whole of the 'case, from having
beardit.iisratised in the Privy denneil.
Lard L./...,LEArBOROUGH could not help press.;
, • ing tPti:iirolcriety'ofailewing t:orne little ileac to
amore tile., the, V,ast rutin : Papers winch , had ju.a
Ileen put into their Lordships' hands reeking wet
fromitte-press, attdWhicli it was impossible for them,
yet to 'knoW.-any thing of—He paused for an an.',
suer:----He understood it to he the determinationof
the Noble Lords who .supported the' Bill to proeeed,
tci carry tale point by the force. of nintabers .; and he
could riot help regarding it as gross myna, and Cal-
culated to make as had,an impression on the pnhlic,
as any, that had been done by the most degraded
Parliathents our history made • mention of, to force
forward a. measure, in Which a large portion ef the.
Public Property was given aWay, anti a large por-
tion of the Public Rights surrendered, without
an opportunity of giving. due 'consideration to
the grounds on 'which the Claim was rested.--,
He had attended to the former proceedings in this
matter-in the Privy Council.; to the latter proceed-
ings he had. not attended, but even that pat of
them,with which he was once particularly acquaint;
,Orl he could net now form a' satisfitetory jodgment
upon without again referring to the Documents.
Compelled, however, as he was, to give his opinion
on such Jinowledge of the ease as he -had, lie was
decided that
.the.Claitn,,was as ill-founded, as it W'as
deterniincd,to be on the ex:llll4l4pm in .:Khich he
bad been concerned.' He could not bring himself
to pass such a censure. on one of the ablest NI Un-
stars cas Country had ever had (Mr. Grenville), aS
to suppose that in his care to maintain the resources
of the .Conutry---a care which it was to be W`ql..ted
had been transmitted to his successors with ,tame
robes of olhce--he had been negligent or niggardly
in the consideration of those whose privation was
tuad.:. the means of public good. it was the height
tit` puerility 'and Absurdity to talk of the propriety
(Ainig examined the ;Dinchtis of Atholl. ayart
in a n•ansaCtion done by Alt of Parliament. Ile
very di* assertion in the -Will Wita.VlnallY, POMP°"S
and Llhiollilded. This akSeitie3l,
Like a tall bully rear'd its bead--'-• .
He would not finish' the line, assumed - that the
Mikes of Atholl were Sovereigns of the Island.--7
it wal4 not to;; the grants mode lIITI9Mited to nothing
like :;:oyereianty., nlr was the term to be fbund in any
instrument la4Ore the present hilt. The DukeS :of
Ath 01l held the royalties of tl)e island in the same way
any Noble, Lord held the. royalties Of his Manor—
they W(7l'o the feudatories of 'the Crown, which al-
way:; retained the sovereignty, awl were alWays
subjeC:i to, the, controol of the Legislature. When
he canto to cianpare the value of the, rights and
property ceded With the Compensation, lie forted,
that the 1.0,0001. paid, together .with the Peni,iert
tam the Irish .Establishment, with interest at five per
cent. gave the Duke of Athol' ,more th:ui
Jae would h,mve had if he had continued in the re,
ceipt of his revenue, not deduCting. the :expences
of the Pier 'and other Public Works, to bit kept up,
•- more if that deduClion was made. I le.
called. upon: their Loktitships panne.".before they
wmailti bring themselves to return arriong'those with,
whose rights they were entrusted w ith such.a stigma
upon theril as the passing
.of this Bill would not
rail to leave,' It was already enotigh of 'Misfortune
inc Paliialnetit ,to return to the People
h 3ChieVeilleTit thrJrt Tit in fOrt [ter pe-
riod. I.\cuthing had been aecomplishe. din the )
of cola ,exion abroad, or :exertion-- at 'l)Ohte. ,No_
thing had beeiin added to the ancient ylor•y of
our 311rori by Lanl or Sea-7he (.141 not . impute
thine to ,iiny body for things which, perh:tps,
could not have been achieved. But at least, let
nnt. Ptirlinnient be deprived of
.the verilltunble
Merit of having
aEted with common honesty. L
honeset
• •• .
there not be room to say, that at tins•cptical tnne,
when the country groaned tinder the most oppres-
sive taxes, those who. were entrusted with the cam of
the Public Resources, were like Sailors, when their'
%ssel was given up ibr lest, seizing on every thing
• that was most precious pn board,, and dishoneotly
app
ropriatina it to themselves in the last moment
t.,t it precarious exiitynce.. This mar be tolerated,
if the wail, of the Cbuntry, t me. liver of Pro-.
metheus, grew as it was prc.ytmi upon but in the
pro,ent Age, of things, :it. NVould be a disgrace to
I,lrliamenVto cdUnteMinct, this hilPo,44'lt. #1..e"1"
micy,
LordILIIMOlt•BY:. argued from.a number of

Inattetll to ht taken into account, that the compol-

cation given did not .tononnt to more than 35,years
purchase of, the inoyane, cooled, ,and truited nor-
liament wOttld,tiot hold that suffidient eonsidera-,
tion for right of` suo,h a Illghtittoire., hztd.ben
prejudiced .against the Claim when it wi:ai firit
brought forward in the other House, bat the.argn-
merits he heard then, and all that he had since heard

and react on the sui)jea, .coainced him that the
Claim was well fhwulecl.

Tit C Marquis- of BUG' KLA Y;11.-1.111 maintained,
that Mr. Grenville had managed this transaai9n, in
the
‘ruost.equitqble OT4nuer for the Atholl family and
the Public. The immense mischief to the Revenue

from the Smuggling of this Island had been matter of
consideration ever since the reign of William. To pre-
vent, this Smuggling was the object of the purchase,
The. treaty was managed by Lord Mansfield, a
branch of the Atholl family, and therefore likely to
take sufficient care of its interests, but relied upon

also by Mr. Grenville ii)r the care of the interests
of the Public. The cession had been !natter of prit'

vale correspondence for a length Of time' between all
the 'Males
.; and it did not pass. the Legislature for
two years. How then could it be said, that it was;
not regularly, solemnly, and deliberately done ?
The Noble Marquis took a . detailed view -of the
whole of the case, and contended, that the com-

pensation vvis fully .adeqUate.- His Noble Relation,the Minister who had concluded the bargain; often
regretted, that he had given mere than .as a prudent
Minister for the, Public he ought. This he had
heard him often say. There were many other con-
siderations, which he might urge to their Lordships
against the present measure, .brit he should leave
that to other N'oble'Lords mere competent than
himself; He could not conclude. Without returning
his thaßks to a 4 Noble Lord then in his eye (Lord Sid-
mouth);., for,the manner in which he-had resisted
these claims when Minister., He had differed with
that 'Noble Lord ?in alino•gt every measure of his Ad-
ministration, but thought his conduit oh this subje,..l
entitled to the, thanks of the Country,„ and that it
,
tri•haVe set the question itt'itSt for.eter.
Lord H.tanoWaV explained.
Ea CARLISLE spoke at. • some. length in sup-
port of the measure. lie contended, :that the bar-
and that the contracting'
was ,a convulsive hoe,
parties"had not, started from' the same' place, - and
consequently,,,coUld nut. • have
,stood on the. samegrounds. • The questi,>o was between a ni'shty e(n-
pire and an indi\ idual, • and .it was becoming the
Legislature to revise and rescind its former Ati, if
tale compensation under it WaS, as he maintained it
was, inadequate for the • rights purchased. It had
been: said, that the House had no inforrimtion before
it to warrant the passing of the Bill, 'But had not
the other Hens& of Parlianient made.' Sufficient in-
quirieS on the subjeCt, and sent up the Bill to them
founded on their examinations, which must have
appeared to them fully sufficient to justify it ? On,
these grounds, he should vote for the measure. •.•..
Viscount 811)111011711, thought he should vio-
late his duty as a Member of that. House, as al
Member of thetßritish People, if he did not protest
against the passing of this Bill, and the mode in•
which it lied been brought forward. It had been
stated, hat the ether Honse of Parliament had made.
every necessary 'inquiry into the grounds of this
recast: re before they had sent it to this House. He
had no doubt that they hia4 .and though he had:'
Ciarl36(io this House with every, :feeling ot revert for
theprivileges of the abet House, he. Knew- what
w
'as- due to the colleaive wisdom of Parliament,
d
to their,lindships. :They 4iould not take tt for
granted That inquiries had -been made in the other;
House, but ought to institute inquiries themselves'
upon grave and serious Measures, It appeared by,
the votes Of the other House; that the Bill had been
three months in that 'House before they -asked their
Lordships' concurrence in it: Three days had scarce-!..'
ly elapsed since it war placed on. their Liordships''
table, and 'yet 'they were called on to sanction the •
principle, without time to examine a single leaf of .
'the voluminous evidence, and after they had admit-
ted the necessity, of intiirmation. But if, the Bill
was to pass in the manner,. proposed, it would.
receive the Royal Assent betbre the order for its be-,
i lig printed could be complied with.
,Ile' averred;
iii it froinall'the infbimation he had the• opportunity
of considering, the impression on his mind was un-
alterablY and irrevocably that the.hopes of. the Duke
of Atholl must 'be dis.ippOipted. It was' painful. to
have been obliged to adopt such an opinion, 'tint he
felt it. 4 duty to the Public' which required it. When,
in }BO2, the Noble Duke memorialized •.His
on subjci:f, Majesty referred the Me,
.mortal to the. Privy Conncil, mid they to the •Law
Meet-3 of the (.*.i•own, persons as able and. eminent
,as any that had ever tilled the offices'they held ;• and-
they reported,:that, they found tic' ground for Con-
ceiving that /the Compensation' had been inadeqnate.
Anotlier Memorial was then reteivedfrom the Duke
of Athol), and the Privy:Council came 'to an unani-
mons, though relitaant 'decision, which they re.;
ported to ilk MaJe.4ty, that there Was no ground for
onsideeingthe Compensation. inadequate. After-
w,
ards he inn.
Duke preseutted a third Memorial;
which .b stated to contain new facts. A eliong:e of
Admittistrationsuccet,ded,.and the Privy Cumuli Oh;
thiS'.'.:third Memorial came to a detcrininfition, that;
' consideringlhe amount_ of the Revenue, 71) mufti,
appeared to them an inadequate Compensation. He
could not. see on. what ground the Compei.sation
could be conskkred grossly inadetpiate, he
was sure the Privy had
.fiiimed its opinion.
n most coscientiousli. it was for the Duke Atholl
show, that the Compensation had been grossly
inadequate. The opinions of the Attorney/ and-So..'
licitor-General stated, that, after paying at the rate
athirty years for the Income; there was 0 sum or
to moot.' for they rights of Seigniory and Itoyalties.
Was that S1:111,1 illiidecillate for such rights, so unpro-
fitable in a pectmi;:ry view ? 'The augmentation of
the Revenues tf ih4.! Island had arisen front addi-
tional dtities, and not. from improvement. , The ap*-.
peal to their generosity would ~timid- advocates in
their Lordships' bosoms. He was alive to those
feelirws of A ,Yeraiity„ but he could not in luloe them
0
IPI a grant of the Public Money, unleSs the claims
to generosity should be founded in just it•e. If their
Lord Ships Ny ere to suetion this precedent, it
,would.
lead to similar applifiations on time part of persons,
who had entered into.contraf,:ts'.with Government
he I.roble,Loid here 4tiverted:to the coptrals with
one Noble Lord fur a pecuniary 's.,:ompensatien
ben of dtities op coals imported into Lonfloh„ and
with another .NotAe.
9:duties 9.11
. •

Imrtporto itlthLond,)n, asinstanteiln which, on the
Some, applicatiotts mi ht bo mare to 'the
A!gisfat tire, On all these grounds, thetefore, he,
trmted the. House would negative die Bill.
S UFFOLK rose, to corroborate the state-
ineuts of the Noble Vise-omit who hadjust:stit chAvp„
and.of the Noble' amid Learned Lord who had spoken
earl)i_ in the' debate, that this+ precedent would lead.
to similar applicatiomms. He. AhOtild•lihrs:gelf prefer
a Claim on as good grounds--his,brother, and
'tiler, and grandfather had been killed in the service
of -their Country, and he had himself been. well
nigh killed also in that service. They had pro Pet,
ty at 60,000 acres'of Land in America, which was
lost to them by the. American 'War. This ptoperty
was Worth 200,000 i,. and. yet hiS Mother and sitter,to whom that property had been left by his brbther,
had repeivedbut 2001.,a5,a Compensation for it., He.
gave notice then, that if this Bill ~should pass, _lie
should, when. he might have frieeds in;the Admi-
nistration, bring for Ward his Claims on this" head.
He thought the Noble Viscona deserved, great cre-
dit for the manner in he had resisted this ap-
plication, 'and' he was sure 'the-!cOuntry did 1-tild
would think as he did on ,the subjee.l.
Lord II UL •• 11,1 VE.
.contended, 'that time 'first
set of Lawyers to whom the Claims had been stb-:
miued had given no decisive answer, only that they
fiaNV no reason to. think' that the Compensation had

been ;inadequate, but that the mxt set had posi-
tively given their opinion that It . was inadequate.—
He allowed the Minister who ,concluded the • bar-
gain every credit for his Attention to the: interest of
the rublie,,but contended, that The parties had been
driven into the bargain Againsttheir
The Noble Viscount had expressed an 'apprehension
than this Claim we to be allowed it would Icld

to the opening of other Commas. Bet these Con-
tra6ts had been made. on a calculation 'of pounds,
shillings, and pence, which had. beett cOmpen:,
sated, and therefore, could MA be opened again
whereas, the Contra& under consideration had boen
for rights of seigniory, which could not have baen
so ealetilated according-to their full value ; and here
be could- not but lament the harsh lane-uage that
bad been used by a Noble and, Learned Lord who
had opened the debatelangtiage that had not
been provoked by any 'warmth-AA. autecedent
l-He thought it little consistent with the
situation of that Noble .Lord,, or with .the dignity
of the House, to use that- rude and boisterous lan-
guage.: Here the Noble Lord was' called to or-
der by .
Lordl'LLarraonouou, who in' sisted that the lan-
guage in Which he had expressed his Sentiments had
neither been rude nor boisterous, bUt such as digni-
ty and •a- manly;avoWal df his "opinion warranted.'
Lord MuI.GRAVE proctreded. If such had been
the language of the Noble:Lord, if he had establish-
ed his position by moderation, by argument, and
sound reason,, he should have bowed to his opinion,
and-the weight of his talents and authority. But the
language which that Noble Lord had used was .such
.as would have suited a Demagogue, in Palace-yard, a
man Who wished to inflame the minds of the Po,'
palace. To dwell upon the pressure of ',r,,,es,:the
difficulties of 'the Country, and the watit. Of Con--;
tinental eo.operation, were topics which. Might be
tit to urge to a popular assent*, but'were ill. sukcl.
to the dignity of that House, or to theeliara&ci",
office, and station, •of that Noble Lord; He had
every regleig'for that ITo-61--I;,:orar3 official gitntinn,
and for his talents, but he felt it due to the House,
to the Country, and to the Bench, to express the in-
dignation he felt at- 'hearing any Noble Lord atig-
maize il5 a job -any.nie-asure• before the Merits of
it had been discussed. He sorry,for the neces
sity of being thas'persenal, but he had the honour
to. hold, 'in canjunaion with others, a high and re-
sponsible situation,• and he felt, it due to, them and to
himself to repel the imputatipn, and to express
that indignation which any ,hanest 111:1!1 must feel at
so unfounded. a ,charge: ,He had thus much to
set, himself right with'ihe House as to his motives
in vothig for the measure. •
Lord I,iLI-X.ll7llOltQ OWL explained. If any
thing personal had fallenfrom,hini, he should have
perhaps merited the attack that had been made, upon
him. His observations had been aadresi.:,l to things,
not to inCU. . Without intending any disresped'to
any Noble'.Lord, he might_ state his 'opinion on a
transaction under their Lordships' consideration can-
didly, lead he should change altogether his. opinions
Of moral principles. before he could,
.with a
_view to
.the justice of the ease,.. consider thiS in any other
light than be had described
The 'LORD C:I-LaCELLOR detailed, , though
briefly,' the circurnstances under which, in hia,,Vari7
Pus-official situations,
,he had: conicicr6d the merits
of this case. In every way that he had considered
the question, it all came to this (and silt stating this
opinion, he should i2are gato himself ti.otn7any
nr any set of Men, as' lie should, if delivering his opi-
nion in Chancery), that sitting there. as a Legislator
and a Jadge, he could find nothilig in the evidence to,
slielv that the etimpensation grlnned in 17(i; was in-
adequate in tatia.,--If they should go beyoild justice
for the puke of Atholl, they would he called on to do
, the 'same for ethers; granting this claim, it
-44,0u1a- be impossible to resist future ones. He had:concuixe;d.elsewhere,
tim ,:conad.elseWhere; in discharging his duty under a
snioniti obiigatioii, in the opinion of the Attorney
and Solieitor. General. They, had miffing befOre
theta but 'the evidence on 'which , the Privy 'Council
decic.i.cd aiedust the tlaims of the Duke of „Atholl,
together with the Supplementary Statement of his.
Grace, • and • the Resolutions of the. PrivrCouneil
thereon. This was not Sufficient to prove the coin.
pens4tion inadequite. They had demanded inform-
that from the other Ilort e, and their 'Lordships
knew the result' He did not call on any Noble
Lord to4adepi his ,opinion he was anxious only to
discharge his individual duty, and to state on these
grounds• hiS opinion respecting the measure. '
Lord 11/111/KrEs BURY had never attended the.
Privy Council *hen this subject .had been 'under
consideratiton.' Whatever its ConduEt might be lie
could not be charged with partiality to tiw Dali.e of
Athell. , The situation which he filled fer tlie last
year called his attention More particidarty to .the
question: 'He came, therefore, to the consideration:
of 016 Claim with an imbir.i3ed and impartial mind.
The:Noble Lord then took a brief view of the case,
sits pt-ler to establish the opinion he. enteitaihect, that
tho 'bargain had ,been :forced upon the -Duke and
of Athol, and,
d-If
not been adequate. '''4llo-Ntbllkee
Authi,g for the dill. j '