The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-21 00:00:00

sence and assistance of lawyers, merchants, and other men
of hasines'.

Mr. ROBINSON thought that the Chairman of the
Committee of Ways and Means might preside over the
business of presenting petitions, and the Speaker over the
private and the public business.
Lord ALTHORP agreed with those who thought that
twenty Members were sufficient to form a quorum ; at the
time time, that if, after the House were once formed, any
Member noticed that forty Members were not present,
such circumstance ought to be attended with the usual
re.ult; and he also agreed that it would be very conve-
nient if the Speaker should, at 5 o'clock, take the Chair
without counting the House.
Mr. ROBINSON further observed, that they could not
expect that the whole day should be devoted to the busi-
ness of Parliament, seeing that the House was not made
up solely of men of fortune and leisure.
Sir R. H. INGLIS thought the plan impracticable.

Mr. COBBETT said that any one might very plainly
see that there existed a strong disposition in the persons
by whom this was proposed, so obstruct the right of peti-
tioning.—(Cries of " No, no, no.") All had agreed that
things could not go on as they were; the Church wa-
giving way, and the Parliament was giving way, and it was
idle to talk of adhering to old abuses merely because they
were old ; nothing could go on as it had been going on.
The number of petitions had greatly increased of late
years ; even within a short time they had risen from eight
hundred to three thousand per annum, though the
people were not half as fond of petitioning as they
ought to be. Exemplary as they were in all things,
they were peculiarly so in their patience. The Hon.
Member then adverted to his intention of to-morrow
giving notice that the House be called over on Friday. He
condemned very strongly the project of a Committee for
classifying petitions, and determining what parts of them
should be printed—it was just a plan for putting an end
to the right of petition ; and the people would have to
hank the Whigs for that in addition to the other benefits
of a similar kind. The right of petitioning was one which
he would not allow any party to interfere with so long
as he had a seat in that House ; the more especially, as
so large a portion of the people still remained unrepre-
sented; he, therefore, was resolved to divide the House if
nobody else did.
Lord ALTHORP defended the proposed plan for re-
ferring to a Committee the business of classifying the peti-
tions, and determining which should and which should not
be printed, or whether any or what parts of petitions be
printed. Great expense had in every past year been in-
curred for the printing of petitions, when multitudes of
them were not only on the same subjects, but actually in
the same language. If the plan of the Hon. Member for
Dublin were adopted, it was one which personally to him
(Lord Althoip) could not prove very convenient, for he
had three days in the week and every evening to devote
to official business ; he should, in consequence of the
change, feel himself in a situa►ion much better than at
present ; but he greatly doubted whether such a change
would prove convenient to the House, or promotive of the
despatch of business ; and he also doubteil that during de-
bates in the day-time they could command such a full
attendance of Members in the House ; though they might
be in attendance within the buildings adjacent, they would
spend the whole of the morning up stairs writing their
letters. Notwithstanding all the objections which had
been urged, he did feel it to be his duty t.) press the reso-
lutions modified in the way he had mentioned. It was
quite clear that some alteration must be made, and they
had better try this plan as an experiment.
Mr. WARBURTON suggested that in any case when
there was not a quorum at 12 o'clock, it should not pre-
vent their doing business at five, should a sufficient nurn•
her of Members attend at that hour.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
For Lord Althorp's Motion 133
Against it
Majority I2S
The three other resolutions proposed by the Noble Lord
were then agreed to.
On the resolution " That if at a quarter-past twelve,
there were not twenty Members present, the House should
adjourn until five o'clock ; and that, at a quarter-past five,
the House should be counted ; when, if twenty Members
were not present, the House should be adjourned until 12
o'clock next day, unless it were a Saturday,"
Sir T. FREMANTLE proposed that the number of
Mrmbers should be extended to forty.
Lord ALTHORP adhered to the proposition he had in
the course of the debate adopted, of 20 Members.

Mr. C. W. WYNN said be was of the opinion of the
Hon. Baronet (Sir T. Fremantle).
A division then took place on Sir T.Fremantle's amend-
ment :

For Lord klthorp's proposition 9B
Against it
Majority —6l

A Select Committee was then proposed, to which all
petitions should be referred, and on which should devolve
the task of classifying the same; which Committee should
have the direction of the printing of such petitions, either
in part or in whole.—Motion carried. _ _

Mr. LITTLETON objected to the number of persons
appointed on the Committee, and thought five or six would
be sufficient. There could be no individual objection to
the persons appointed on the Committee.
Lord ALTHORP then moved that the House should
meet on Wednesday next, at 12 o'clock, pursuant to the
resolution formerly agreed to.
Lord ALTHORP then rose and said that some diffi-
culty had been felt, occasionally, to determine which party
should go into the lobby during a division. The general
rule was, that the minority should go out ; but it was
occasionally difficult to ascertain which was the minority.
He (Lord Althorp) proposed, that whichever party was
declared by the Speaker to be in the minority, or which
should call for a division, should go into the lobby.
Mr. WYNN had no objection to the proposal made by
the Noble Lord ; but he thought, as it was contrary to
the rules of the House to make any such motion without
notice, it might be expedient to postpone the motion.
Lord ALTHORP bad no wish to press the motion on
the House at present, if it was thought desirable to post-
pone it.
The motion, after a few words from Mr. WYNN and
Sir R. Nous, was agreed to.
An HON. MEMBER (name unknown) complained that
places which were taken by Members in the morning were
not kept, if the Member did not happen to he present at
prayers, without regarding whether he was engaged on a
Committee or on any other public business.
Lord ALTHORP then moved, that in future all orders
of the day fixed for Mondays or Fridays, should tie taken
into consideration before any other motions in the order-
book.

Mr. WYNN asked if the Noble Lord meant that in a
case of emergency a Member would not be allowed to m kke
a motion ? He (Mr. Wynn) had known instances in
which that privilege was of the utmost importance, and
where the effect of the motion would be lost if it could not
be brought forward till after notice had been given.
Lord ALTHORP did not for a moment conceive that
Members should give up the right of making motions
without notice, in an emergency. The notice of motion
was merely a matter of courtesy, and it should always be
left to Members to consider whether it was important to
bring forward a motion without observing the usual cour-
tesy.

The motion was then agreed to.
The Committee of Supp'y was then postponed till Friday.

ECCLESIASTICAL REVENUE.

Mr. HARVEY postponed his motion for a return from
the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the ecclesias-
tical revenue, to ascertain the locality and description of
each separate property, charged with any fee-farm rent,
pension, stipend, rent, and other payments reserved by
leases (other than rack-rents), and redeemed land-tax;
specifying the probable number of acres and annual value
thereof, the tenure, the amount of the fixed payment, of
whatever description, to which it is subject, whether the
leases renewable, upon the survivor of life or years, and
the customary terms of renewal, till the Bth of March.
He considered it a motion of great importance, and was
determined to take the sense of the House upon it.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said it was utterly impossible to
obtain returns of all the different parts of the Hon. Mem-
ber's motion, without very great trouble and expense. To
show the Hon. Member how difficult it would be, he would
mention for one thing that 12,000 circular letters would
have to be addressed and sent to different parts of the
country.
Mr. HARVEY thought the greatest objection brought
by the Hon. and Learned Member opposite, to his motion
was, that twelve thousand circular letters must be ad-
dressed. But he (Mr. H.) thought the motion of such
importance, that let the trouble be what it might, he was
determined to take the sense of the House upon it.
Mr. WARBURTON (in the absence of Mr. Hume)
moved for a return of Promotions in the Navy since the
date of the last return ; also, returns in detail of the esta-
blizhment of the Royal Marines.
WARWICK ELECTION.

Three petitions were then presented against the return
made of a Member to serve in Parliament for the town
of Warwick, when it was resolved, that the Committee
on the Warwick Election should be balloted for on the 7th
of May.
The House adjourned at ten o'clock.