The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-18 00:00:00

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Craft-yard ; and of 896011., fa: victuals Ilk men and
marines for thesOrdinarfryard, Craft, Ste
On the question that the sum of 104,551? should be
granted to defray ;be charges and expenses of t Admi-
ral,y-office.

Mr. RUTHVEN moved, as an amendment, that the
sum should be reduced to 102,0511. He thought the
salary of the First Lord of the Admiralty might be re-
duced, with great advantage, from 4,5001. to 4,0001. per
annum; and that instead of having five other Lords of
the Admiralty, at 1,0001. per annum each, three would
be quite enough to trap.---act the t ohlie business Efficient!,.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had but little objection to the
proposed reduction of his own salary, but assured the
Hon. Member that, under the present consolidated system,
it was absolutely necessary to have Lords of the Admiralty.
Each presided over his separate department, which re-
quired his daily attention ; and it was not possible that a
smaller number of gentlemen could perform the duties
required of them.
Mr. SANFORD gave the greatest possible credit to
•be First Lord of the Admiralty for the judicious reduc-
tions which he had effected in the department of which
he was the head • and so far from thinking his saki),
ought to be reduced, he thought if anything it should be
increased.—(Hear.) The salary of the First Lord of the
Admiralty was lees by 5001. than that of anyother Minister
of equal rank, and his duties not less important nor less
onerous than those of his colleagues; and they could not
forget that those duties bad been performed in a very effi •
(dent manner.—(Hear.) With regard to the reduction of
two,Lords of the Admiralty, the Right Hon. Baronet was
the best judge, and after what had been stated on that
subject, he felt himself bound to negative the amendment.
Mr. THOMAS ATTWOOD thought the Right Hon.
Baronet would be extremely fortunate if his salary expe-
rienced no greater reduction than 500/.—(A laugh.) By
an act of the Cabinet the value of money was doubled,
and therefore the salary should be reduced at least one-
half.—(A laugh.) Aye, and it would be reduced too.
Not by the present House of Commons, for that he did
not expect ; but by one that was to come.—(A laugh.)
After a few words from Mr. COBBETT,
Mr. HUME said it was really a heartbreaking thing
that Captain Symonds, without any scientific knowledge,
should be placed at the head of the 'shipbuilding de-
partment.
Sir J. GRAHAM justified the appointment, and said
it bad not been made without consulting the first naval
authorities.

Mr. G. F. YOUNG concurred with his Hon. Friend
the Member for Middlesex, and considered the appoint.
ment a most untoward one. He could bear testimony to
the general ability of Captain Symonds, but this was a
different question ; and the Right Hon. Baronet, by
making such an appointment, bad inflicted irreparable
injury on the scientific pursuit of naval architecture.
After a few words from Captain ELLIOTT and Mr.
LABOUCHERS, who defended the appointment,
The Committee divided, when there appeared—.
For the amendment 29
Against it 160
Majority —l3l

The original resolution was then agreed to.
The next resolution proposed was that a sum not
exceeding 2 .7201. be granted to his Majesty for paying
the salaries of the officers of the Navy Pay Office for the
year 1834-35.
Mr. YOUNG mule some remarks on the mode of
payment at the outports, which, however, the noise
occasioned by the rush of strangers into the gallery after
the division, prevented us from distinctly hearing.
Mr. P. THOMSON defended the existing Board, and
maintained that it was the most secure and economical
that could be adopted. _ _

Mr. HALCOMB adverted to the retirement of four
clerks on large allowances, which had taken place some
time ago in the Navy Pay Office. Their places had been
supplied by four young men at the usual salary, so that a
considerable additional expense had been incurred. It
was a remarkable circumstance, that at the election for
Dover, and which occurred soon after, the sons of the
gentlemen who had so retired were found among the most
active partisans of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite.
Mr. P. THOMSON denied that there was any thing
irregular in the circumstance alluded to. The clerks in
question had retired, as they were entitled to do, after a
long service. Adverting to the arrangements for the con-
solidation of offices which bad been made last year, he
observed, that by that arragement an immediate saving had
been effected for the public of 1,4001. a year, and that the
saving now amounted to above 2,2001. a year.
Sir T. FREMANTLE believed that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had been imposed upon with respect to the
disposition of some of the clerks in question to retire.
Mr. Beamish was certainly one of those persons who was
not so disposed. The information which the Right Hon.
Gentleman had communicated last year respecting the
consolidation of offices was by no means satisfactory. The
principles of economy had net been sufficiently attended to.
Why were young men, who had never been before em•
ployed, placed in the situations of the retired clerks, when
there were others receiving superannuation allowances
who would have been quite ready to take the situations ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL observed, that the length of
time during which any of the individuals in question bad
been in office, although it qualified them to retire, did not
entitle them to do so unless the head of the department
were satisfied that indisposition or infirmity rendered re-
tirement desirable.

Colonel DAVIES perfectly agreed with the Right Hon.
Baronet. It had, however, been for many years the usage
of beads of departments to act on a different principle.
Mr. P. THOMSON replied, that, in the cases in
question, infirmity had justified the retirement.
Mr. HUME thought that the sons of the retired indi-
viduils, having taken so active a pia in favour of the
Right Hon. Gentleman at the election for Dover, gave to
the transaction a rather jobbish appearance.—(A laugh.)
He was certainly of opinion, also, that to replace the re-
tired individuals, some of the numerousclass who had been
,uperannuated, but who were, nevertheless, quite ready
and fit for service, ought to have been resorted to, by
which ratans a considerable saving would have been ef-
fected in salary. He tiegged to ask the Noble Lord oppo-
site whether he intended to persevere in the plan which
had been a favourite one with him—of consolidating the
pay offices ? If the Noble Lord had not given up the
plan, when did he intend to bring it forward?
Lord ALTHORP still thought that it was most de-
sirable to consolidate some of those offices. To the con-
solidation of the Army and Navy Pay-offices there seemed
to be some objection ; but he did not see that any objec-
tion ceuid be made to the consolidation of the pay-offices
of the ordnance and army.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET, adverting to the
usage of former Governments, observed that, if, at the age
of 65, a public officer had no infirmity of body or, mind,
although he might be qualified, he was not considered
entitled to retire.

After a few words from Colonel Davies, Mr. THora-
sox, and others, the resolution was agreed to.
On the motion that a sum not exceeding 20,8851. be
granted for the Scientific Department of the Navy.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG put a question in a low tone of
voice, which we understood to refer to the measurement
of the tonnage of vessels.
Sir JAAIES GRAHAM said, a Bill was in preparation
upon/the subject, and he would undertake that it should
be presented in such a time as to allow the fullest consi-
deration of its det•+ils.

The resolution was then agreed to.
The next vote was for a sum not exceeding 119,165/.
for the Naval Establishments at home.
Mr. COBBETT said that, under this, was an item of
11,0001. for advertising. Now, he should just like to
know to whom this money went—how much "to t'otber."
He wished the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Admiralty would defer this large vote for a little time,
that they might have an oppoi tunity of canvassing the
various items which composed it. Laying the accounts
on the table early in the session was of no advantage, if due
time were not allowed to examine them.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM wished to say to the Hon.
Gentleman, who was generally so very correct in his
phraseology, that they were engaged, not upon an account,
but an estimatee..(Hear, and a laugh)—of the probable
expense of a future year. He wished the Hon. Gentleman
to understand hereafter that no two things could be more
distinet.—(Hear.)
Mr. COBBETT--It may be an account, or it may be
.oitnxte ; you're eoine to spend it.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—Of that I'm not sure. (Mr.
Cobbctt made some sign.) The Hon. Gentleman dues
not believe me.
Mr. COBBETT—No, 1 don't.—(Laughter.)
Sir JAMES GRA HAM—Well, I can assure the Hon.
Gentleman that my Noble Friend the Chancellor of the
Exchequer bas in his custody no less a sum than 500,0001.
on the last two years' estimates, which I have not yet
drawn upon him for.—(Rear, hear.)
Mr. G. F. YOUNG complained that the King's moor-
ings off Deptford were not made serviceable to merchant
vessels. They were now seldom used by his Majesty's
ships. and be saw no valid reason why traders should not
be benefitted by them.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said the Board of Admirall
and the City authorities had been down to Deptford on
the subject about nine mouths ago, in consequence of
memorial presented to bim. Otto part of the Niog'b