The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-16 00:00:00

for salaries of the officers and expences of the naval esta-
blishments,
Mr. HUME objected to the captains-auperintendants of
the dock-yards.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, if there was one thing more
than another for which he might take credit, it was hi,
endeavour to reduce the expenditure for the Royal yachts.
One of these was constantly at Pembroke, the other at
Woolwich, end the captains of each did full and active
duty as superintendents of those yards.
Mr. HUME wished to know if he was to understand
there were only two Royal yachts?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said there were formerly five
yachts. One of these, which had been usually at the ser-
vice of the Lord-lieutenant of Ireland, he ha,l wholly done
away e ith. Two were afloat at the command of hi-
- Majesty, and he did not think that the House or the
country would object to a naval King, the first that ever
ascended the throne, having two vessels for his sole use.--
(Hear, hear.) The other two were, by the arrangement
he had alluded to, no longer s;necures, but tributary to the
public service.
Mr. HUME said, then there were, in fact, still four
yachts. He freely admitted the pre priety of placing two
at the disposal of his M ijesty, but the other two should,
in his opin;en, he put down.
Mr. YOUNG (of Tynemouth) asked if Roth! way could
not be hit upon of rendering the vessels thernselvesefficent
fir the public service?
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, from the time of Wil-
liam the Third to the present day, there had never been
less than four Royal yachts. George the Third, when at
Weymou7h, had always three in immediate att. ndance upon
him. He (Sir J.) thought it right to keep up the number
of four, that the other two might be ready if they were
ever wanted.
Mr. HUME said they should he kept up, n t on the
ground o usage, but fur the purpose of use. Why bad
they applied schedules A and Bto certain boroughs? De
cause they did not et ant them. Yet usage might, on the
same principle, have shielded those boroughs, as now i:
was advanced to uphold these yachts. He was sorry to
hear smell reasons adduced for maintaining what the coon-
Iry did not require.
After a desultory and uninteresting conversation between
Sir JAMES GRAHAM, Mr. YOUNG, and Captain DUNDAS,
Mr. HUME complained of the high salaries paid to
civil servants, and instanced the master shipwrights and
others employed in the dock yards, who received much
larger pay than the naval officers.
After some further conversation, the resolution was
agreed to ; as was also one (in which Sir JAMES GRA-
HAM stated that there had teen a saving of fifteen per
cent.) for granting to his Majesty a sum not exceeding
23,422/. for the salaries of officers and contingent ex-
pences of his Majesty's Naval Establishment abroad.
Sir J. GRAHAM, having moved that a sum not ex-
ceeding 438,426/. be granted to his Majesty for the wages
of artificers, &c., employed in his Majesty's Naval Esta-
blishment at home—
Mr. CARTER stated, that be had a petition in his
possession from a number of the inhabitants of Portsmeutb,
complaining of the hardships to which the artificers of
Portsmouth Dock-yard had been subjected, by the dis-
charge of a great many hands, by the degradation of many
who had acquired a certain rank in the yard to an inferior
rank, and, above all, by the employment of convicts in the
yard. He was happy to hear that his Majesty's Govern-
nient intended to correct the last-mentioned evil ;. and he
trusted that their intention would be carried into effect
with as little delay as possible; for nothing could be snore
irksome to honest and free men, than to be associated in
labours with persons of so different a description.
Sir G. STAUNTON said he entirely concurred in the
sentiments of the petitioners.
C,pt. DUNDAS observed, that the attention of the
House had been for many weeks called to the misery of
the people of Ireland. That misery was at least equalled,
if not exceeded, by the misery of the inhabitants of a dis-
trict not four miles from the metropolis; be meant Dept-
ford ; where, in consequence of the number of artificers
who had been discharged from the neighbouring yard, the
poor rates had been raised to eighteen shillings in the
pound.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM observed that the predecessors
of his Majesty's present Government had fixed upon
6,000 as the number to which the artificers in the various
dock-yards might be reduced. After having been three
years in office, his Majesty's present Government had
felt it their painful duty to make this, almost the last
saving in the way of reduction, of which the naval de-
partment was capab'e; and had thought that the time
had arrived when they might discharge 500 labourers, re-
ducing the number from 6,500 to 6,000. It should be
considered, however, that the sum saved, namely,
37,0001., was spread over the whole of his Majesty's
dock-yards. That it tell more heavily on Portsmouth
dock-yard than on any other was owing to the circum-
stance that almost as many labourers were employed in
thet yard as in any other two yards in the kingdom.
He was happy to confirm the statement of the Ho.
neurable Member for Portsmouth, that his Majesty's
Government were of opinion that the employment of
convicts in the dock-yards might cease, and that with
reference to politicil as well as moral considerations.
It appeared that the demand for labour at Van Diemen's
land was so great that this step might be taken without
difficulty; and he spoke upon this subject the opinion both
of his Noble Friend the late, and of his Right Hon.
Friend the present, Secretary of State for the Colonial
Department. Time, however, must be given for the ar-
rangement. If the convicts were all removed at once, the
sudden demand for labourers in the dock-yards would
create an inconvenient rise in the price of that labour.
Another difficulty in the arrangement was caused by the
consideration, that many of tl e convicts had already gone
through the greater portion of their time, and that in such
cases it might be desirable to allow them to complete their
time in the yards.
In answer to the question from Mr. CARTER,
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, that in the reductions
which had taken place care had been taken to keep the
most efficient men.—Voce agreed to.
For the wages of ar ificera, labourers, and others, em
ployed at different establishments abroad, 26,905/.-
Agreed to.

Naval stores, for the building, repair, and outfitting the
fleet, 423,0001.—ALreed to.

PLYMOUTH BREAKWATER.
On the question that a sum of 63,7001. be granted to
defrily the expense of new works and improvements in the
II:ck Yards,

Sir J. GRAHAM said that he wished to call the atten-
tion of the Committee to this vote, the decision of which
would, in fact, involve the question ',hat should be the
future outlay of the Breakwater at Plymouth. The late-
Sir John Rennie had recommended that the work should
be finished with solid masonry ; that recommendation was
adopted by his son, and the Admiralty, after having ob-
tained every possible information on the ma ter, supported
the recommendation. The last winter had afforded a
severe trial of the efficiency of the work, and he was happy
to say that the result was most perfectly satisfactory, lie
had received a letter upon the subject, and should beg
leave to read a few lines to the House. The writer stated,
that although it had blown a hurricane during the past
week, such as had never been equalled since the disas-
trous gale of November, 1824, all the vessels in the Sound
had ridden it out in safety, and the work itself had suffered
very little damage. Only a few stones had been thrown
over to the northern side. All that part I,f it which had
been finished in solid masonry was left uninjured, and the
few stones that had been swept off were those front that
part which had not been so finished. He wished only to
add now, that to the immortal honour of Sir John Rennie,
the sum required for the works would fall short of the
estimate he had sent in. That estimate amounted to
1,200,0001., but the expense amouted only to 1,100,0001.
Mr. HTJME thought that if the stork was to be
finished, the sooner it was finished the better : for that
would be sounder economy than leaving it ❑ncompleted
for a lung pet iod. If it could be finished better with solid
Imsonry than i❑ any other manner, lie should not oppose
its being so finished; but lie thought it should he done
without further delay.
SHEERNESS AND PEMBROKE DOCK-YARDS.

Mr. HUME wished to know on what principle it was
that Deptford Dock-yard was to be put down, and new
Dock-yards at Sheerness and Pembroke were to be built.
He did not understand this mode of proceeding. Sheerness
was at a great distance, and in an exposed place, and he
wished to know why the public money was to be expended
in the erection of a Dock-yard there.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that if the question was now
for the first time to be discussed, whether there should or
not be a Dock-yard at Sheerness, he might possibly be
found to agree with the Hon. Member opposite; but as
two millions had already been spent upon this work, and
as the money now required to finish it was comparatively
small, he recommended that it should be finished, in
order to prevent the utter wasting of so great an outlay.
As to Pembroke Dock-yard, he thought that a most fit
plies to select for such a purpose; for the depth of water
w.ages were low, and there wets
was considerable, and the
many things that rendered it a proper
oDock-yards, plaCefor, h should the build_
c
ing of ships. By having these k yards
be able to do what he had long wished, to know exactly
the comparative expense of building and of repairing ships,
because the two sorts of works, and consequently the two
sorts of accounts, would be kept perfectly distinct.
Mr. YOUNG said that the accounts were distinct