The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-23 00:00:00

GOVERNMENT OFFICES.

Mr. HIJME moved for the appointment of a Select
Committee, to examine into the number of Members of
both Houses of Parliament who bold offices under the
Crown, and were removeable at pleasure. He should take
that opportunity of saying, that in his opinion such per-
sons ought not to he Members of either House of Parlia-
ment. Indeed, he should go further, though he we:l
knew how much his sentiments on that point were at
variance with those of other men, that neither officers
in the army nor navy ought to have seats in that
House.—(oh, oh.) He could tell Hon Gentlemen who
dissented from him on this point, that in most of those
majorities which supported measures that he had con-
tended were prejudicial to the interest of the public at
large, were to be found persons of the class he mentioned.
Lord ALTHORP had no objectian to the appointment
of the Committee. He only suggested that it should be
an instruction to the Committee to report on the number
that had sat in Parliament in several antecedent periods.
An Hota. and GALLANT MEMBER, whose name we
could not learn (and this difficulty, we regret to say,
occurs frequently and perhaps inevitably in the present
Parliament) said the people of England had a right to ex-
ercise their privilege of judging for themselves, and
without the dictation of the Hots. Member, as to what
men were fit to represent them.—(Hear, hear.) In
consequence of a portion of the people having exercised
their privilege in favour of him, he thought that he bad
as good a right as the Hon. Member for Middlesex to
a seat in that House.—(Hear, hear ) As one of the
two classes of mrn whom the Hon. Member for Middle-
sex had thought fit to calumniate, he thought he had
a right to say, in his own defence, that he should do
his duty as honestly as the Hon. Member himself.
Officers in the army and navy would not have been sent
into Parliament unless the people had confidence in them.
Mr. HUME added to his motion the words suggested
by the Noble Lord, and then said that be had not calum
mated any man. He was in a different situation from
the Hon. Meuther. The King could not strike hi►t► out
al the list of officers, as he could strike out the Hon.
Alember—(Hear, hear)—and. consequently, the atn. ant'.
Gallant %natter seat to that extent a dependent man.—
(Hear, hear, and No, no.) He was a dependent man,
as far as he held a MalrailMin under the Gruwn, Which

could be taken from him at the pt=a4ure of the Crown.—.
(No.) He courd show Hon. Members a printed list now
on the table of 1,000 men who had been struck out of
the list of commissioned officers, no reason given, and
who could get no redress. The Hon. Member had talked
of catching popularity.—(Hear, hear.) He despised po-
pu!arity.—(Loud laughter.) He had resisted the popu-
I:r voice then he thought it to be wrong, and he would
give the lion. Member an example. When the Ministers
truckled to the popular cry about the Truck Bill, he had
resisted it, and what was the result ? Why, that he was
burnt in effigy throughout the country.—(Hear, hear.)
An Hos.% and GA LLA NT MEMBER said, that if there
was not in this age a fashion to throw imputations on
officers of hi 4 M ijesty's service, he might feel indignant
at the observations IA hick had fallen from the lion. Mem-
ber for Middlesex. lie had the honour to hold a eons-
mission in the navy, and he thought that the lion. Mem;
ber for Middlesex diii not know what the word " honour"
meant, if he thought that an uffieer, for the sake of his
paltry hail-pay, would sell the intrrests of his consti-
tuents.—(Cheers.) He would tell the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, that every officer of the army and navy threw
back upon him his imputations.—(i-lear, hear.) Men who
thus accused others, did but judge of others by them-
selves, and he believed that if the Hon. Member was
placed in the situation of those men whom he now calum-
niated, lie would act as he accused them of acting.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) _

Another HON: and GALLANT MEMBER. bad had
the honour to hold the commission for 40 years. He was
now returned to that House by a large constituency. He
thought that if all the allegations of the Hon. Member for
Middlesex were just, officers could.not be fit to represent
the people. The Hon. Member ought to have tried the
officers of the army and navy longer than he had, before
he made such sweeping imputations against them. Be-
cause, the other night, they had voted for their brothers in
arms, to save them a poor pittance, which had been
earned by hard services, they were now arraigned before
that House.

Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON should not conde•
scend—(Cheers),—to answer the supposition of the Hon.
Member for Middlesex, that he should, individually, be
biassed by the motives to which the Hon. Member had
referred.—(Hear, hear.) He rase to protest against the
doctrine, that the officers of the army or navy were neces-
sarily subse, vient to the Government. He did not look
to his half-pay as a retaining fee, but as a reward for past
services. That question had, in fact, been decided in
1793, when the Duke of St. Albans, then a Lieutenant
in the navy, had his right to his half-pay brought into
question, because he did not offer himself for service. On
that occasion the twelve Judges decided that half-pay was
a reward for past, and not a retaining fee for future ser-
vices, and they took a distinction between the army and
the navy in that respect, as a man in the navy could not
have his half•pay until after active service, but he might
have it without service in the army. It was, however,
known that officers in the army often sold their half-pay ;
and who bought it ? Why, the Government. Would the
Governm: nt buy that if it was a retaining fee for future
services ? Certainly not. How, then, could the Hon.
Member for Middlesex think that all the officers were sub-
servient to Government on account of that which they had
a right to for past services?
Mr. HOWARD said it would be easy for the Hon.
Member for Middlesex to show instances of officers being
arbitrarily struck off the list of commissioned officers during
the earlier period of the American war. But in late years
that had net been done, for public opinion had prevented
the recurrence of such instances.

An Hos. MEMBER, who was not a member either of
the army or navy, could not concur with the observations
of the Hon. Member for Middlesex.
Mr. ROEBUCK was aware that it had often been held
as a constitutional principle, that the representatives of
the people should not be tlie servants of the Crown ; but
he objected to that doctrine, not because it was too liberal,
but because it was not sufficien ly democratic. He held
that no constraint should be placed upon the choice of the
people.

Mr. COBBETT should much rather have officers of
the army and navy in that House than have it filled with
landowner., who pocketed so much of the people's money.
He fully agreed with those Members who had said that
the half pay of the army and navy was a reward for past
services, arid not at all in the nature of a retaining fee;
and therefore he held that there could not be an act of
more grievous tyranny than to deprive any military man
—be his rank what it might—of the fair reward of his
laborious and hazardous servitude. He had himself not
long since received a petition from a man in O'dham, who
had served in the army for many years, and who, without
any cause assigned, had been deprived of a pensioa earned
by years of hard service. He wits a nian who had re-
ceived three wounds—one of them at the battle of Water-
leo. That petition he hail forwart'ed to the War-office,
but had not received any communication in reply.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that if any of the out-
pensioners of Chelsea Hospital were called upon to serve
in a veteran battalion, and refused to do so, they, accord-
ing to the regulations of the service, forfeited their pen-
sions. He certainly hiel received the petition to which
the Hon. Member had alluded, and returned it to him,
with such a reply and explanation as the occasion de-
manded, but he had not received in return any acknow-
ledgment of the receipt of his reply---a circumstance
which he attributed to the letter having been addressed in
the customary manner of addressing Members of Parlia-
ment, namely, " William Cobbett, Esq." He had since
seen an advertisement, announcing that the Hon. Member
would not take in any letters which were addieseed other-
wise than to "M. William Cobbett," and possibly that
was the reason of the misapprehension on the subject.—
(A laugh.) He fully agreed with the Hon. Member for
Bath—and it was not often that he had the pleasure of
doing so—in thinking that any limitation of the power of
the people in choosing, whomsoever they. thought proper
as their representative, would he highly inexpAient.
Cohinel 'TORRENS was disposed generally to agree
with the Hon. Member for Middlesex, but of late he found
that Hon. Member enforcing such a rigorous discipline, that
he found himself und. r a nece:sity of quitting the camp.
Mr. HUME did not regret the departure of the Gallant
Officer, for while in the camp he never found him agree-
able to any discipline. As to any imputations thrown
out against himself, he flung them back with contempt.
—(Such was understrod to have been the expression of
Hon. Member, bat lie was not distinctly beard in the
Gallery.)
The motion was then agreed to, and the following
Committee appointed :
Mr. Hume Mr. Roebuck

Lord John Russell
Mr. Guest
Mr. Divert

Colonel Davies
Mr. Clay
Mr. Ellic•

Mr. Ayshtbrd :Sandford Captain !Yorke

Mr. Gillon
Mr. Wallace
..Mr. Hall Dare

- -
Mr. Pry me
Mr. Herries
Mr. Fenton

Mr. Chichester

Mr. HUME then moved for returns explanatory of the
navy estimates, which were immediately agreed to. The
same Hon. Member moved for a return of the several pro-
secutions for selling unstamped publications, from the 26th
of July to the present time. He condemned in very strong
terms the course pursued in the matter, and thought that
there should at length he an end to practices that wei e
a di.grace to the country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the prosecu-
tions in question had been instituted by common informers,
and the Government were by no means responsible for them.

Mr. COBRETT said that he was the innocent cause of
the Acts under which those prosecutions had been set on
foot. It was now universally admitted that the Acts were
a complete failure, and that instead of producing the
effects which their authors con•empl*ted, they had a ten-
dency to the direct contrary. Let the Government only
try now the effect of repeal. By taking that course they
might perhaps regain some portion of their now totally
lost popularity.

Lord ALTHORP said it would not be practicable to
repeal the whole of those Acts, though perhaps some por.
tion of them might be done away with ; at the same time
he could not undertake to say, that any alteration on the
subject could, during the present session, be proposed by
his Mejesty's Government. He repeated that Government
were not responsible for the prosecutions in ques-ion.
Mr. C. BULLER must hold the Government respon-
sible fur the prosecutions which were carried o❑ under
I aws that they might, if they would, repeal.
Lord ALTHORP repliAl, that a great number of throe
prosecutions bid been instituted under the 60th of Gen.
Mr. Alderman WOOD observed that the Government
could not prevent those prosecutions.—Motion agreed to.
MERCHANT TAILORS' COMPANY.

under the
Mr. M. ATTWOOD, in moving " To discharge the
order of Monday la,t, for referring the Petition of Mr.
H. Franks to the Committee on Municipal Corp irations,"
contended
confinedheadtootfraAdiiunngup,iipir;
nd
poses, .
Corporations. Like ;he Apothecaries' Company, it traf-
ficked with individual property for the benefit of the per-
sons to whom the property belonged. Such was the cha-
racter of the Company, and upon that principle it had its
thatdid the
not Company
come n
origin. It could not lie connected by any rules with
purely Municipal Companies. In the beginning all Coin.
pinies were trailing ones, and it was upon the records of
all corporations, that the aristocracy, and even Monarchs,
were not ohaand of Wins members of them. If a Alv-

nio)naorreedhorhtehis'ob'sPeLflertion,mleannmleotsr,f,eiirttihwii::rinnitcoet—ies:p'eeeeclitip—niieitic::ehje!dhe i;
Duke of -Wellington now, who is a mertilieof ti,i
chant Tailors' Company. As another proof tail I
i
Company was purely commercial, it sent lad
officer, with his silver yard in band, int° St' td
mew's Fair, to in: asure the yards or the raerchsll4,ff
and to see whether they fell short of the nteasuferiig
Being a member of the Company did not glir e‘lik.
vote for Members of Parliament, and even if': 1.,
right would not make the Company a MnPiciPetel'ot
ration. It was a trailing corporation to all itlifeiifil
purposes, and consequently ought not tg befr-he•o
the committee on Municipal Corporations. ', .„stel'
1
should direct its powers in preference to the-oew'rent.
public duty, and to the great machine of G°"rn„,itsl
legislation. If the House wished to keep "P
from which it had almost eseaped, it could not ri:Oie
better course than by lending itself to such nretta
the present. He would refrain from any furlrve'rseks i
andmerely move that the petition of 31.r*
dischat ged. ber Of
Lord ALTIIORP said that the Hon. 3.fettlai r
fb
hlii
chided his speech by adverting to the mode in fotc,
business of that House was conducted. It Wae,::
reason that he rose to make a few observation, 'OO,
The Hon. Member was certainly mistaken il. he With
that any prepositions could be allowed to interfere et.
regular business of the session. The busi°:ols
House should be conducted with the stricyst rt,
and nothing would he allowed to interfere "'"li;iis '
Hon. Gentleman had also said that the Howe 'cps,.
periment. So it was, and a very successful-tt 00,
tory experiment. It was the result of the e.l'eetl% ..,
the Reform Bill; and the country had as yet, eves
to be satisfied with its composition. Evert' a
reason to be satisfied ; and the sad predictions eil,,
during the gloomy discussions of last year, .on tlleo
~
Bill, would, be felt confident, prove conaplet'lt lefts
As the party that made those' woeful foreboding' ;e4, 417
they should rejoice if they failed in their propft'ersar
Not on /0,0
ought now to rejoice, for they had failed.
that parry to rejoice, but feel satisfied, and haveief oslei
in that Pariiament for the future.—(Hear.) '',,,-;1(1`.
ing large measures of Reform, the Goveroment 'v-1;0
here to the institutions of the country. Th,e leisi
that Parliament could be guilty of would be aec-ige ti
expectations of the people. It would not eleee'ststi
expectations, for it was composed of the real r'Pre7b
of the people, and would refer for its acts la' egoat
sense of that people whom it now follY rellc sl_.r,'
With respect to the view the Hon. Member t 0 the Vr
order of referring the petition under debate ta:hs.e;
rnittee on :Municipal Corporations, lie thougbr,' vii
Member was not exactly correct. The Comlnicloe'
inquire into the defects of the Corporations °took V,
and Wales, and to report thereon. It Wasol,, "I:
and to ascertain those defects, and in order CO dOco'elitit,‘,
company, and (to use the expression) everPit,rsei,
,
connected, as they must he, with municipal nar‘,,,r itr
should come under the cognizance of the ComPdittoll
respect to the question whether a trading cc'-''
to be considered as connected with the coast° lie 600t
corporation, he thought that certainly it was' To
Corporation of London be taken as an instance',o sr,
come a liver) man it was necessary to belong[er
those trading companies, and, without being's 417001
one could not be said to possess the pliellegee et 1.0
part of the constitution of the Corporation c'' oart
gas e. The Committee undoubtedly had no right:err/ail
with what it deemed did not affect municipal cc ear
and would not do so. Yet it the order of referela. 0;#
present petit on should be rescinded, that 5cc,1:04,4,'
almost to a declaration that the Committee lot°'',,-, ttr,,'
examine into those trading companies. As "" e 107
opinion that the Committee possessed she right' b ,
his duty to object to the present motion. g Ot
Mr. HILL again denied that he was the C° de lII'
petitioner. With • respect to the application rtoe Id
petitioner to the Court of King's Bench, 'be.,,-busee
that the.dismissil of the application ought notno.
weight w.th that House. That Court hod been g4i.', '
of tour centuries a consistent supporter of all °,'-tliej'
..buses. As he knew that, he formerly iidvisec -30.;
toner (for he had been once his Counsel) not t° r'
that Court, for it would be useless. Petitions type,
others' advice,. and failed in his application' a into I
i
question was, whether a reform could be writ." into
c irporations without investigating civic eorrie it,
was clear it could not; for, to purify the strestato4 ,
peers-any
.onencege
esedsoaurtlyod
oto
nb
one
begincooi
iithosew ai t hcfortneehopmeaapnnuiersio,fifavanLtdoiii.:n,d,oo:fcctuboet
js..o4Jscolgiu;',lre ,
man he
must be a freeman. By the II Lli of /104
First, in the election of the Lord Mayor. Shot 01,(1. '
City Chamberlain, freemen had no power; i',.: prory
vested in the hands of the liverymen, who ati:Y7, li:f
considered as the mere creatures ef city v01131)41 bilvd.
inqui,y was made into those companies, the ;fill riti
municipal corporations could not be effectualli iistaas"
detected. The Corporation of London was ri ird
the assistance of Parliament to remedy its deJe:;llll4l'r
fore small companies should he also .willing ttLatlf.4l
assistance. The Court if Assietants .had tall'' a4i
of
.entry from 3s. 4:1. to Si. 158.--(Hear, heiri, 04
very evident why they had so great a dislike:A oili
quiry, when such matters were to he tl,e P1'1'11:0414
inquiry. The first who refused to make an '.,„0"10i 'II
corporations was the Right Hon. Baronet oPrit,Selil
in doing so, he (Mr. Hill) conceived that he hrtf,
.104
cau.e of greater calamity to the caul., of li,,,behr4rreri
country than any man that ever existed. ..'"i the_d
feet in those corporations, arid the cillge ;tber:'
which they effected, is the want of security w hie"-
, I
hayseirunEdDerwthAertmD.
po:tt. til'iirt..i)
only did his duty in opposing the motion ef theiefA)
Kt t
eNe Ao To C
Municipalßl L L cco no ir d e , 001,0 e 00
aHboletßll,,lewmabselimited
Wa
ntidi tephl
plain. It
Twhaes eiifeiersetiiyol3?-totbetbroft
fpeertrittdiotnolrhieqcueosmtionnii was or was not a proper °io l' al
would beg to move as an amendment, " That.,.i'ne,j
in instruction to the Committee to confine shet. I r#
suchwere partsagree
do f
to,th petitionebirt
i parties
)ar t ;mess rweloautleidl
geixvcel utsbi ve sslof
~ileOsdliti
cipal regulations." He thought that if chit e[iest t
best consideration. _ .4

Mr. ROBINSON seconded the amendrneoao4;
Mr. GROTE could not give his support 7ieellail
meat moved by the Honourable Baronet. totev.lA
conceive the reason the circumscribing the t:iPotersi,
the CotnniLtee. He (Mr. Grote) had listertetebalet
to the arguments of the. Hon. Member for Oil did II
did not agree w:th him in his conclusions. All tit.l O,IA
pn'es were Corporations. The Bank of 841-011'7
India Company, which were established exelt!c:oB, td,
purpose of trading, were essentially Corpora:llore ~t.
Lord ALTHORP could not give his yroe obi'
amendment of the Honourable Baronet. ' bade'
the Committee was to improve, and not to clooe.
Mr. GOULBURN thought that the Coolf°,,'
specify the powers to be confided to the d WI
When the resolutions were moved, he age? ce OP'
with the Noble Lord ; but from what bad s°Dietilreri,
he thought it would be of advantage that 11°6000/ '''
~hauld define. in express terms what Corporamitter;
be the subject of investigation by the C"r° tbeil.,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that soo
was, whether the Merchant Tailors' ColoPag; sub!,
Companies in London, were to be loaJe,„ or'd
inquiry ; of this there could be no do"' 'poet '
cnnpany be mentioned was so intimately "" oetto
the Corporation of Lond..n, and was in thest d°lo.,'
1
municipal rights, dune could be not the le.ar, rib/
that it must be subject to the same iorl.tl,loloollo'4lt.
House proposed to subject other trading c.,01,1 e°
—(Hear, hear.) No gentleman had heen 'ea Ot° ,-
assert that the corporation had not exere'%it fi!dti
functions, and enjoyed municipal rights.
,f 0004;
any Member able to draw a line, and tell tr 0.4
historical detail, what portion of twitchle 0'11)1
with the Corporation of London, or t, lorier.,
terests of London, and what portion of It Meroir,!r'
of them ? No gentleman, not even tl etiu.Otifil
brought forward the motion, and who, "Q:1'0,10040;
be well acquainted with the subject.—o° rde tbe !.(11ii
by any possibility, draw such a line, auparticuitil i
House must he incapable of giving 3°,l:bey 00 Oil
tions in reference to this coiporation.
_e of. tortitiot
fore, be under the necessity of doing r,_r fray .tifil
either to exempt the corprration altoget.o:
coolde
loosed inquiry, or have the investigat'° koos!tte
tirely to the good sense and Parliamentaryb cO/00°0 d t
;ntegrity of the gentlemen composing the
pososioderili
there could be no question as to theiri,, better t° 0 ifili
integrity and knowledge, it vvould
in
__t be
,0 „to,tii
latter alternative. He repeated there_
en,:ledge
001'
01
grity of the Committee. Tire non.
_on „oujav
by rtpeittin, that one trading corporation su ;,,, .
and it must I e left entirely tri„the
Mr. WARBURTON said that t for it vl 9
d
~„, te
b • subject to inquiry as well as others,frHull P- 0.
to the sane irquiry as other trading
h"irs lorrapot rillt :1;111.
municipal. The Hon. Member
the
..ts; t 10.0:
a passage of the Roman Law itt ti
ina!"
Jays ....-ie,
gave a clear definition of the wor(rrr nilac'er" fli!d
prie quidem municipes (ippellan
nicipes are, those who unoertake th . 3_7041 tr
offices. The Fibhuxtufere:Coinewar. 0'
recepti in civitute, zit munerd nobli_sceutstly....aerpeea. %
Genl'lea'sji, be b

~amea*.
cteol that !I`o, 0
'xpected the
if
o tbit
er. of th,
proof
0,0
sent alliod
into St.
1201 e 'nary
raosl3re 711/
e 4
not give`
!wen if it 114'
I%luniciPas
to all 0":174d
tp be 1: 001
on'.
Idlpatch
to the eiveol
r Govern' ,
Of
eep 57.0ge
onid not
such Pet)tjo
furtPer"
Fro
,f ilfr. • -

thyt
nsiderod
n
f theit
i • re
t,
ieqtion bether
erelY `
rice to
be
,pet °:00.
orpor), 1t
That .0401C'
,e their t V
veil tend6lusi t
thi, °: t
the 50'1`

.
44( iitibiti:etitirenthffi):i:.:nly,
,p-. 111.. Ire. ahmi,
,ilnisilt.iilpipeha
lac;
noltffil I -T):.e.aa:l,ls,
Tailors'
ocfmsmtipnakninyg
ifinshi i
I;
and most he subject
.cWoe„N,ntrY•which is extended to the rest. The former
dare froY nkd raised the price of admission to their free-
iti4 ip:',"S 4d. to a l4s. If asked the reason of this,
-fiktii....-"say they did it net of poverty—from their
.4414' iind drinkings; these expenses and 011 their ac-
Le 414.4 to be examined into from their own hooka.
kegiliri,,,r2.ttee Would stultify itself by confining their
ept (8."" the limits proposed by the lion. Member for
wil,
A.' E. linatchbuli).
its `l-31CROIIBIE
~ vi
Q" s rose to make a few. observa-
'we laitn 'Peet to his own views on the subject. For
Person, frock he had been constantly engaged in receiving.
4 iNii. alt parts of the kingdom, all strongly urging
k4l hi. '''Y
'nt° the state of Corporations. The qviestir
fief h." I°4 in agitation in several towns, and was, in
"ol'hiennte a subject of extreme and general interest,
!Itirecit n'iled With gl reat delight' the motion for the so-
-1'44'41144Y. The first difficulty which he saw at
ot"whetreatenin the Committee, was that they would be
'1408,4
o.4'ed I.y the extreme multiplicity of the business
Nth , ri them by; the resent plan. He should suggest
41.6,..1d be mud better to confine their labours to
/tad te'.llT)rc
.iminediattly important, and most likely to
Was' tO""d'ltelY beneficial results. The present r.. kits
or- find
°tit what were the defective or vicious
Ntieuptahe tlstem, anti to remedy them. If gentlemen.
!CI the to press as they had done for tie investigation
thor,lo—edifferent Corporations' accounts and expense.,
Ait /714 he no end to the labours of the Committee.
t.441(113:41. Algainsit. said the proper course. he thought
tbill of ,t° ascertain the original foundation and institti-
,4„.."rPorations, and then to find out how far they
4(4 Ad toil from this their original institution. As the
ftsn,;''''oeate on a former occasion had stated, with re-
!illst4 t° • eotland, all Corporations were once con-
„l4tii,r, the Same system, that is, under the manage-
-7,44,,dt:c Whole of the burgesses. As to the meaning of
irlik .11.enicinal, all Corporations were or iginallyTrading
'4ilet% 'lnre they were Corporations ; and the Merchant
,LEIO4 *he'll:l3May Was, therefore, a Municipal Corpora-
'nit rs— all Charters they were originally called Met.-
' it
~,trilds.
Eltport!,4, MES said there would be no opposition from
"eleg 7°41 to every inquiry, and instanced the Corpo-
trtheni` Carlisle as about to send in a petition in ftvotir
tit, puiry.
ktr k; I(NATCHHULL withdrew his motion.
1)144,„:1Y t'.O'itATTWOOD, after replying at some• length,
ti% ti th flame tenor as on Thursday, said he should
l:n-1 eeling of the House, and withdraw his roo-f
"utttilertelathfg that the Corporation be was a member o
• the strictest inquiry into all their proceedings.
Petit. On VOTE BY BALLOT.
,:I4r,„"oTE postponed from Thursday, the Vitt!! of
11-'2 ": to Thursday, the 25th of April, his motion.
l'llittetb,,-,,,v,tnes at elections' for Members td serve in
• )4 "" be taken by way of ballot.
toadISUNI)ERSTANDING IN THE HOUSE.
I ALTRoRp 1
addressed the Speaker, and said,
,ttiltio f°," the House separated rated he wished to call its at.
th."4411.° a eircumstancepwhieh had taken place in the
'111:1•1 t' e evening. In the course of the debate upon
4,41 .10,
_,
ite °T the Hon. Member for Middlesex for a
thik,, tthrtittee to examine. into and report upon the
4-.'t ''' Members of Parliament who held offices, places,
e 0 43(1
t! 11:11.ents under the Crown, stone expressions had
Irt*th .t'd -"jells he understood, were likely to lead to
clitnieerneene hich the House was always most
41,4 I:l4l.jutb, eqtowavoid. Under there circumstances,
41,4 4 4 l'oulf to the notice of the House, without
4,
anY communication with ether of the lion.
fin". .°,whonl he was now compelled more specifically
sb„,ll-11.k. '3,4 having heard the expressions used by the
caotittelher for Middlesex that evening with respect to
D'i11,4,,,r. of the army as held seats in that House, he
itm4ibiZ to state that those expressions cast a strong 8.
tilt: :
1.4111 th 1! the motives by which those officers were at
iL6 ; lir Plib'ic couct in that House. At the same
,s7kil felt bonn I to admit that the Hon. Member for
t 4111% t,, "he! fairly stated that he did nut intend his ex-
siteNjot me any individual application.--(, Hear, hear.)
'Ldon istli, a of that kind, bowel', r, were calculated to ex-
itt 16 Which led others to use expressions still morei
Vttlili' In the course of the discussion strong )-
I,o' '),ll,.„'en dby an Hon. and Gallant Officer. the
11;11-sif'f'"lotiuc'esterand had been retorted by the Hon.
1n41,1, 1,-4 Itlicitile.ex.—(Hear.) Under such circum-
4:N44Le (Lott' •Al-thorp) appealed to the Hun. Member
-11' al,"a himself. From long experience of the
lai,,N,:ehee's Parliamentary conduct, he (Lord Al. %1 -44 satisfied that he (Mr. Hume) had not in-
IN '' giv
1/4 *hi.l, 5 anY man personal offence by the observa-
6:for,`"' he had employed. He (Lord Alihorp) was
city.lie"tifident that the Hon. illemb-r would express
thin4l44 ith respect to the words which he hid ut-
*ir. Withv.ing back the expressions of the Gallant
ttolt. 413,,t-"ttern pt. -.4 !fear. ) . .
tl'ltt. h".',.E--1 can have no hesitation in stating
.my
144,sit - et wivit took place, and in showing ha on-
-4 7 itki•4' for me to have intended personal offence
.
ON, ividua,....._(
Hear, hear.) I stated certain tiru
'ti. tide"' Which I said :itched suspicions in my mind,
t1i1,,,"" that I hoped that no expression of mine would
ttit,tfeter,t° any individuil. The Hun. and .Gallant
t ~
In,' 4014 kdoucester, in referring to what I said, observed
hsi,'''t t4:(litthonoura'ble opinion as I
.a appeared to enter-
tOtt nl kers of the army mutt arise from a c.onv. ic•
to ',..(4 Part that I should act so were I in their situ
1 44t..' ''"*, hear.) That was imputing. a motive
*44117 course which, in itself, is unpathamenta!y.
4i' to said that I threw back the insinuation
ki,,,h4t,it4''',Pts Conreopt was the cord I used. It
411; i 4 n1'6444 Ought never to he used in Parliament,
t'`s(ll,4 "ells and in my opinion always impro-
S. km ,°ri hear.) I thought at the time that the
/11‘ittit,,,"'illiint Officer, in throwing cut an imputation
kltttotive jusoified me in using the expressio
lyit ''', hut I meant nothing more by it than to set
iit-',i(ti.; irl my own opinion, and in the opinion of the
Ptitii).,,Car, hear)—and I therefore appealltoyou,
iiittkg Il:: whether, after guarding myself as did, by
Vial ' did not mean my expressions to have any
tfilLiS imaPPlieatien, the lion. and Gallant Officer was
titStel l'"ing motives to me ?—(Hear.) I never wish
4, oti'th any man--I never wish to give any mail
huttkthwt leinee•--(Hear, hear.) Those with whom
%CU termseed one
in this House, I have always met on
tleth on. the other side of that door. Like
os.q, We h
,'W, h save battled our points warmly, and some
"Ittittk'‘4"::P° angrily; but when the argument was
4i,i'ls't 'tot' thsubsided, and we met on friendly. and
file!l'ltth,:"n '.--(Hear, hear.) I had no intention, by
4,it'°,ls this evening, to offend any man, but in
illeiiti6tale Morneht I retorted with wdareinxiclu%,nb•lei..la
f 044, \nle, may perhaps be consid •
4 p:tite J
NiNktunelusion of this speech there was a loud cry.
.ittiikt4; herkele • but as he did not come forward, it
deep hp -Z
Rrante3d that be had left theHous,)
*14'4.4441.a AkER was sure that the House. felt itself
"nrkki.,-- tt, ;-ted to the Noble Lord for having done that.
,4e6 f:- 4n S n 'al on the present occasion, and which,
4101;4111'°i4.tteu"i-titdlividual so peculiarly entitled by his
,l'thl';htl,:etrilier, and his character to interpose, was
r7411;_6-11,4E1 the two Hun. Members back to a right
1411;(1t-,P",aonal offence was not intended on either
11`014.114'k' hear.) He regretted that the Hon. and
0C) for Gloucester was not at that moment in
11N o— kW stoicwas perfectly well aware of what the Hon.
es, boor
hadt liddlesex had stated, that in using the ex-
1.N4i1 q not meant any personal offence to the
elle) tiad°halat Alt-oilier for Gloucester. He(the
tlliktititittf heard the expressions to which the Noble
tSlis,7lohlljtleda and he confessed that, if his memory
ilk: tht)•Z when he heard them, be took the meaning.
tliellwt;4t hi the the Hon. Member should treat. insintra-
-44t4 4 to.lll4tif With the same contempt with whiciti
P(4ll,'lde.rtnsed to be made by him were received a
tikielt.Ns,,,tle (the Speaker) had not interfered. at the
Nli:,tiNittititig4sneNly backward in doing so, lest his inter.
,PLitistatt ttevk,,t!°d to create the offence which he was
nit 1,-40% -,' The attention of the House having been
atair,"t 4 tat tiNiorly lie must say that they had been ex-
:ht ii44444oalt:•Niern ber for Middlesex, who had declared_
l'is°Pe ',:ltte"ht no personal offence against the Hon.
-tit 44
toits tale fur Gloucester. With that explanation
lit
IP.h4f liii.iedr and if the House was satisfied, it
11°U.I* 1!:414"...thut the proudest and
.m.ost gallant man
' It' thh, tiin,;" tot object to their decision.— (Cheers. )
the,e-othtm ih,
uttatt,d dial not meet the feeling of the
1,444 t l'htl4 41,,G 'n'''',e would be justified in sending for
i'eti A-,4411k:41 4 "atit Mel-fiber for Gloucester, and taking
atr:rstkh.•444, the tiecasi n mi lit call fur; but after
Artist c give'''. iL4,,,aPPeared°to h mg. that the worda of the
sioh; Ptlj,ptl, einii°loldlesex, followed by the explanation
t I. Ilt ii "he ~„`I he construed only in that way which
hi, I.
q.Pti'so4-',(Nt liortourable mind from the impres-
-I,'N. andLkNll,cfLnce Was intended.—(Hear.)
it ," V4l iO. j'l3)( co ld say, in the absence of
t° I;l)4l'tttiql 1)1,14' helatiti ye not
tbis feelings were, but
g'oo'f
1.4.1.11° 1•14,e-4, ''' cleat!): expressed from the chair,
t''''tlt h 1 ''"!f 144' his Hon. and Gallant Friend ought
k.t° tb:kt4Lii:, for Z,1.Y., 83tisfioi. It was true that the
'iletzibe"; u. 4 40,1 t,"QtBaX had used the expres,ion at-
e lt,Tildqbal`b44 apologized to the House, but not
A 4-4
Ca ' but now that the Hon.
~,tzt Captain ;
ltd declared that he bad not meant

any personal offence, be was sure, if he knew his Hon.
and Gallant Relative, that he would feel perfectly satisfied
An HoN. MEMBER, whose name we could not I.,arn,
concurred in what fell from the Noble Lord who hod just
sat down, and expressed his belief, that when his Hon
and Gallant Friend, the Member for Gloucester, should
be apprised of what had now passed, he would fee! him-
self quite s4tisfied. Here the matter dropped.
The House then adjourned, at half-past ten o'clock, to
Tuesday next.