The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-26 00:00:00

reduction, by increasing the quantity produced of the article
to which that duty referred, might eventually augment instead
of diminishing the public income. He had already stated, that
however desirable it might be to make spirits. an article of
taxation, there was great danger that the effect of so doing
would be to increase illicit distillation, and to give encourage-
ment to smuggling. This was a fact which the history of the
duty on spirits strikingly pointed out. He would briefly state
to the House the_ effect which had at various times been pro-
duced by changes in the duty on spirits in England, in Scot-
land, and in Ireland, separately, in order that they might be
better able to judge whether the proposition which it was his
intention to submit to them on the subject deserved their ap-
probation. The rate of duty on spirits for home consumption
in England, previous to the year 1827, was 11s. 91d. the im-
perial gallon. The average quantity of spirits brought to
charge, during the last three years of the old law, was
3,959,990 gallons. The duty was then reduced to 7s. 6d. the
imperial gallon ; and in the year immediately following, the
quantity of spirits brought to charge rose to 7,407,204 gallons.
In the subsequent years, the duty remaining at 7s. 6d. the
imperial gallon, the quantity of spirits brought to charge was
as follows, viz.:-
In 1825
1829
7,759,687
1830
1831
1832
1833
1834
It thus appeared that the effect of lowering the duty in Eng-
land had been to double the quantity of spirits brought to charge.
In Scotland, previously to the year 1825, the rate of duty on
spirits for home consumption was 6s. 2d. the imperial gallon.
The average quantity of spirits brought to charge in Scotland in
the three last years of the old law was 2,158,200 imperial gal-
lons. The duty was reduced to 25.4/d. a gallon. The conse-
quence was, that in the year ending sth January, 1825, the
quantity of spirits brought to charge rose to 4,334,222 gal-
lons, and in the year 1826 to 5,980,941 gallons. In the
year 1827 the duty was increased from 2s. 4d. to 2s.
10d., andsthe consequence was that the quantity of spirits
brought to charge in that year fell from 5,980,941 gallons to
3,988,788 gallons ; thus showing the extraordinary influence of
an augmentation of duty. In 1828 the amount brought to
charge recovered a little, it being 4,752,136 gallons. In
1829 it was 5,695,743 gallons. In 1830 it was 5,756,951
gallons. In 1831, during the latter part of which year the
duty was increased from 2s. 10d. to 3s. 4d., the amount
brought to charge was 5,992,421 gallons. The duty re-
mained at 3s. 4d., and the amount of spirits brought to charge
in-Scotland in the subsequent years was as follows, viz.-
1832 5,691,096.,.35. 4d.
1833 5,401,651...35. 4d.
1834 5,982,920...35. 4d.
Year ending sth April, 1834 6,112,659...35. 4d.
Half-year ending sth April, 1834 3,257,856...35. 4d.
He had stated these details in order to prove that the quantity
of spirits brought to charge in Scotland had gradually in-
creased up to the present time, and that there was every indi-
cation that it would go on increasing. He now came to Ire-
land ; and here the effect that had been produced by the alte-
rations which had taken place in the rate of duty on spirits was
very remarkable. Previous to the year 1825 the rate of duty
on spirits in Ireland for home consumption was ss. 7i-d. the
imperial gallon. The ,verage amount of the quantity of
spirits brought to chargen Ireland during the last three years
of the old distillery law was 3,173,948 gallons. When the
duty was reduced to 2s. 4d. a gallon, the quantity of spirits
brought to charge in the year ending sth January, 1825, rose
to 6,690,313 gallons. In 1826 it rose still further, to 9,262,742
gallons. In 1827 the duty was increased to. 2s. 10d. and
the quantity of spirits brought to charge immediately fell
to 6,834,866 gallons. In the year 1828 the quantity was.
8,260,663 gallons ; in 1829 the quantity was 9,937,633
gallons ; and in 1830 the quantity was 9,212,222 gallons.
The duty was then raised to 3s. 4d. a gallon, and the con-
sequence was, that the-amount of spirits brought to charge
in Ireland fell, in 1831, to 8,981,595 gallons ; in 1832, to
8,635,081 gallons ; in 1833, to 8,594,331 gallons ; and in
1834, to 8,136,281 gallons. From this it appeared that since
the increase of duty to 3s. 4d. a gallon, the quantity of spirits
brought to charge in Ireland had been gradually diminishing.
But although the quantity of spirits brought to charge in Ire-
land amounted at present to little more than 8,000,000 of
gallons, there was no doubt whatever that the quantity of spi-
rits actually consumed in Ireland amounted to from 12,000,000
to 14,000,000 annually. Such being the case, his Majesty's
Government had felt it their duty to take the subject into
their serious consideration, with a view to ascertain whether it
might not be advisable, by a diminution of the duty, to prevent
illicit distillation, and at the same time not to expose the re-
venue to the danger of much loss. It was clear that; in Ire-
land, the effect of the duty of 3s. 4d. had been the continual
diminution in the quantity of spirits brought to charge ;
proving, together with the increase of illicit distillation, that
the taxation of spirits had considerably passed the limit of
productiveness. Under these circumstances it had been
thought right in this year, when there was a large surplus
revenue which would allow the experiment to be made, to
propose a considerable reduction in the duty on spirits for
home consumption in Ireland. He felt confident that, by re-
ducing the duty to the amount of 15.,-that was, by
reducing it from 3s. 4d. a gallon to 2s. 4d. a gallon, very
advantageous results would be obtained. The effect which
he anticipated from the reduction of duty was, that the amount
of spirits, brought to charge in Ireland would rise at once
from 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 of gallons. If
,so, the loss to the
revenue in the present year would not exceed 200,000/. ; and he
was confident that the increase of spirits brought to charge in
Ireland, in future years, in consequence of the reduction of
duty, would be such that the revenue would suffer no diminu-
tion whatever. This was what he contemplated in an earlier
part of this session, when he stated to the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin, that lie hoped to be able to bring forward
a measure which might diminish the taxation in Ireland, with-
out material injury to our financial condition. He should not
be justified in proposing a similar reduction with respect to
Scotland ; because it was evident, from the statement which
icie had already made, that under the present rate of duty, the
quantity of spirits brought to charge in Scotland was annually
increasing, while, under the present rate of duty, the quan-
tity of spirits brought to charge in Ireland was annually
diminishing. He was justified, therefore, in applying to Ire-
land a measure which he should not be' ustified in applying to
Scotland. Upon the whole, the probable permanent balance
of income above expenditure would be 235,0001. He enter-
tained the greatest confidence in the elasticity of the resources
of the country. If he were increasing taxation instead of di,
minishing it, it might be dangerous to leave so small a sum as
that which he had mentioned ; but as it was, he did not appre-
hend any danger whatever. Let the balance-sheet of 1831
be compared with the balance of July, 1834, they were as
follows, viz.:-
January, 1831.-Receipts
Payments

....£50,056,616
~.. 47,142,943

July, 1834.—Receipts
Payments

£2,913,637
..£46,914,586
.. 44,737,556

£2,177,030
The present surplus, therefore, was only 740,000/. less than
it was in 1831; but the amount of taxes reduced in the inter-
val had been exclusively of those which he now proposed to
reduce, upwards of 6,300,000/. The reduction of the income
had been only 3,000,0001. ; the reduction of the expenditure
had been 2,405,3871. When he looked at the official value of
the exports from the United Kingdom for the three years
1828, 1829, and 1830, and compared them with those for the
three years 1831, 1832, and 1833, he saw.no reason to appre-
hend any danger on the score of diminished commerce. The
return was as follows :

Produce Foreign and
Years. o the Colon al Total
Unite 1 Merchan- Exports.
Kingdom. dize.
Z. Z. I Z.
1828
1829
1830
170,150,000 29,118,000 199,270,000
Average
56,716,000 9, 06,000 66,423,000
Years.
1831
1832
1833
195,698,000131,622,000 227,323,000
Average 65,232,000'10,540,000 75,774,000
Increase on the average o
the last three years, as
8 516 000 834,000 9,351,000
compared with the former "
three years

He felt, therefore, that he had a right to express confidence in
the increasing commercial prosperity of the country. At the
same time he admitted that a great commercial country was
liable to fluctuations, which it was not always possible to anti-
cipate, and that he should be wrong, therefore, if he himself
entertained, or if he attempted to inspire the House with
sanguine expectations on the subject. This, however, he would
unhesitatingly say, that the trade of Great Britain was at this
moment in a sound and healthy state. Having made these
statements, he would conclude with one observation. During
the last year the House had thought proper to vote by a large
majority the sum of 20,000,0001. for the purpose of procuring
the emancipation of slaves. In the statement which he had made,
he had shown the means by which he proposed to meet the
charge which that vote threw upon the revenue of the country.
And yet after providing the large sum necessary for that pur-
pose he had been able to reduce the taxation upwards of
1,500,000/.—( Hear, hear.) The effect of this act on the
part of the Parliament of Great Britain must unquestionably
be to excite the astonishment and admiration of foreign na-
tions. They saw that for the purposes of justice and humanity
this country was prepared to make advances of money, which
scarcely any nation of the Continent could furnish, even for
purposes of extreme urgency ; and yet that in the very same
year we were able to provide for the charge which that advance
entailed upon us, and at the same time to reduce taxation to
a very considerable extent. This was certainly most gratify-
ing and satisfactory, and it was the more gratifying and the
more satisfactory, as the object in view was so great and be-
neficent. The Noble Lord then moved the first resolution,
and sat down amidst hind and long-continued cheers.
Mr. BARING would not trouble the House with many ob-
servations, for there was not much of novelty in the statements
of the Noble Lord ; and as to the reductions of duty which
the Noble Lord had announced his intention of proposing, the
only one which was of much importance was the reduction of
the duty on spirits in Ireland. As to the general principles on

•
which the financial system of the country was at present carnoilit
on, it was well known that he materially differed on .that the
from the Noble Lord. He would not, however, relthat
opinions which he had expressed on that subject, knowleF ob.
they were unpopular in that House ; but he would merel eter
serve that it was mighty easy for a Finance Minister, Yeartr)ie
year, to propose a reduction of taxation, and to talk to°leave
buoylsncy and elasticity of our finance system, and then
the country-to all the chances of distress which might arise 'uoble
some sudden and unexpected fluctuation. When the /1 or
Lord said that his predecessors in office left a larger StirP. obis
a larger margin, as it was termed, than he, all that the 100,
Lord did was to show that Ire was prepared to purchase
larity at a risk which other Finance Ministers, who, as Voble
men, were more conscientious- and scrupulous than the said
Lord, would not venture to incur. The Noble Lord
that he had a surplus of about 400,000/. in the Prealsot
pt
year ; but that the permanent surplus would be_ „ttio
200,000/.'Notv, to have only a surplus of 200,006/. in a
of about 50,000,0001., was, in fact, to have no surplus at ad
for he was quite sure that the Noble Lord, and those ribV.er
wised the Noble Lord on financial subjects, must be very
indeed, if they could predict what would be the result or of
financial operations of any given year within the °toe
200,0001. one way or the other. The increase or the deo'reat
of the income of the country must of course depend, inan the
measure, on the prosperity or the want of prosperity
.110
country. When the country was prosperous, consurnPtwori;
creased, and an increase of the revenue naturally fell°ood,
when the country was not prosperous, consumption decree as
and a decrease of the revenue naturally followed. As 1° cf. as
manufactures and commerce went on tolerably well, slios
long as the people were comfortable, the revenue wouldif-tuy
increasing. But these were matters subject to great 11 celoor
tions ; sometimes going up hill, and sometimes going r the
hill with unexpected velocity and some time or anotbe4
no
`
system of finance at present adopted, which not only Ife" .e.
surplus revenue, but actually anticipated an increase o could
nue, would give way under those who trusted it, and: eon'
leave the Noble Lord, and those whose opinions were ,11 hich
formity to the opinions of the Noble Lord, in a condition 'rose,
would not be one of exultation and triumph. To the r„eoed
tions of duty, amounting to 200,0001., which it was Pr°t,r,oo3,
to effect by the Customs' Bill, he entertained great obiee-tbel
Forming a part of the general reductions of the Yee'd the
ought to have been brought forward by the Noble Lor
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and not by the Righ+ tilers
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. Le"harbe
be proposed by whom they might, however, he must say, t r re,
never knew 200,000/. more deliberately thrown away, °re at
ductions of taxation of so little importance. He was ti°' the
a loss to understand the reason of reducing the duties
`sere as
importation of dried fruits, dried currants, &c., They be.
much luxuries as any articles of consumption could we', re,
He could not divine why such articles were selected for. 00
duction of duty in preference to a thousand other articieest
which a reduction might be more advantageously effe tea.
Perhaps the proposition might be intended 'as a relief r°hoo.
growers of fruits in the lonian Islands. Their distresns,
Greece.
ever, arose from the competition of other parts of h
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) here went throtig
ncd
various articles comprised in the Customs Bill, and cende% oil
them all, with the exception of the reduction of the duty.? pa
used in manufactures. If instead of such propositions l'or of
been practicable to relieve the manufacture of glass of
cottons by the reduction of duties, then indeed tbe„,eif pro'
might have derived some benefit from the measure. 1'1;ot
posed reduction of the duty on coals appeared to him t°
nded
only a useless waste of the public money, but to be st!esteaa
with considerable danger to our manufactures. If
of hiding this proposed reduction in the Customs .--„po'
had been brought forward as an open and distinct P'r-011Y
sition, he was persuaded that it would have been °loll,
opposed by the great body of manufacturers in the ce,eoents
and among them by the Right Hon. Gentleman's ceest'ictioe
at Manchester. He (Mr. Baring) considered this retltliesty
to be exceedingly injudicious, not only as getting rid us cider'
of a large amount of public income, but as affording eon enter
able encouragement to the manufactures of our Coetwbiee'
rivals. To this reduction he entertained insuperable ° 'IODI
tions, not only as it might affect the poor, but on the gt,.o°,Dy
that it would sooner or later strike a dreadful blow at t'''„o.44
nufacturing power of the country. There was in the Pr°l-00,
alteration a positive and serious danger. The other red'ile,ioe,
with the exception he had mentioned, were foolish ae°,,--fore
cessary, and to consider them further he looked upon as smack
waste of time. Then he must go to the statement just
by the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, alito
him that he had kept little of the promise he had maws theYt
lieve the landowners from the severe distress under wl"eb-iiti el'
were labouring. That distress the Noble Lord had
frequently acknowledged—Ministers proclaimed it in the 'ref,
speech—the Noble Lord had given frequent assurances d,reval'
and it now turned out that the boasted reductions were litt,!er'ses.
try taxes on shepherd's dogs, on farmers boys,and farmersl° old
—( Hear, and a laugh). In the whole list the Noble lieLuctan
I
find no items but these to reduce—none which would eneedoes
substantial relief. Could not the Noble Lord have r,,iiog.s
the stamps on leases, and on the insurance of farm buttusib,
and stock ? He would have had no difficulty in finding- %,ot,
stitute for any amount of loss which the revenue might If the
He did not wish to raise a discussion- on the subject °toot
malt tax—that great burden on the agriculturist, but Ile circa
observe to the Noble Lord, that the sum of fifteen /01 to
thousand pounds which, on his own showing, he was an-
apply to the relief of the country, would have afforded `171;:,
duction of five shillings on the malt tax, which by the °beer,
tution of other and far less impolitic imposts, might have d to
increased to ten shillings. But the Noble Lord prefer° be
yield to clamour, and repeal the house-taxes, for whic,i(l'Dot
doubted not, now they had got it, the shopkeepers "u` b°°l
thank him, as by this time they had found out that the non
was to the landlords and not to themselves. He vvishei'r
to call the attention of the House to some transactions °`
Noble Lord's, or of persons connected with his defer r'ob'e
in reference to the financial affairs of the country. The 'OO
Lord had announced his intention of attempting a eon in bti
bof existing stock into one payinc, a lower interest ; an"fsiles;
attempt, if he had not entirely, he certainly had partial', d tite
for the old stock amounted to about eleven millions, too<
dissentients to his scheme were not less than five 131""-bie°
hear.) Why did not the Noble Lord in the statement ;600
he had just made give them some information of his efer--0
h
in reference to this plan? or, at all events, why did thl7
state what means he had at his disposal for paying /°,l bacer
large amount of dissentients? He (Mr. Baring) shav't-
thought that such particulars formed a necessary P°r To
the statement of the financial Minister of the countrYk' o,c;
return, however. It had come to his (Mr. Barinii's);-'1113"
ledge, on authority which he could not doubt, thatbthe: e,
j,
been some most extraordinary operations in stock goi,i'pvotiv
on behalf of the Government. He was surpriserl,u:be
measure to learn that the Government agents were tl3"l,;;De t°
ing in one stock and selling out another ; that traffie-tL°
an enormous extent had been carried on by there/ II
amount and in a way which was in fact ineiplicable*
certainly doubted his information at first, though it cartfieritief4
the most respectable quarter : but it was very soon e„„re°"-'
by evidence which admitted of no cavil, and he 15
moved for those papers, a portion of which had pea
laid that night upon the table of the House. Those by 11
had indeed been refused in the first instance---t'bo
could not tell, for they were of a class which 1
tits"
hitherto been the invariable custom of the Governele"eel'",
mediately to grant. He was at a loss formerly to OOP
on what grounds the Noble Lord refused these papers ;,
was still more at a loss to account for his conduct after I°Tb
over the documents which had been laid upon the table' o'4
Commissioners for the reduction of the national debt Iniioo
year the application of no less a sum of money than (met Sr,'
and they had also under their control the deposits at t,,ljoss'
vings' Banks, which amounted to upwards of sixteen Taller'
These Commissioners were, the Chancellor of the Ele'e
the Governor of the Bank of England, the Deputy WT.': the
and other persons in whom, from their station and charaeteier
most implicit confidence could be placed. They were secis en
as individuals who would take a religious care of the ftel st'"
trusted to them, and not go about jobbing and trafficit°l:es•er;
gambling with the public money. They had not, I,l°:a ber,
confined their exertions strictly to their trust, for they fool
buying and selling, with a view to operate upon the ,er
though, he must admit, in the most bungling way thatte;arPl
had heard of. He was aware that the different Acts e! aoi,
ment in reference to these matters, gave a power taiente;o
with such assets, if the Commissioners thought it Or,
but that power merely went to the execution of their trn-ti to-
ptheewsearfeetfyepoef
rtahteinirgproperty,—and r
ndnidthneoftunedxste; nidotothtehre.ol:ootil
of jobbing and gambling with that which was not tbei
in right, but placed with them in trust. Any PersaljneeP4
reads the acts, and took a common-sense view ef thueny
tion, would clearly see that they gave a power -to "-07 tdret
sell ; but then it was to buy and sell for the puniest!,
trust, and not to answer another end. -And here Pitee
remark that in the Bill passed last Session, in refer`-taset
the West Indian colonies, this power was given
..95,111,,-,
but the words, " if expedient," were, whether 'Men, ';1,
not, others could better tell, entirely left out. Of CO°
totally acquitted the Noble Lord of any sinister des
this jobbing—he knew he was totally incapable of it.
he suspected was, that the Noble Lord was so engresscarais;
the cares of office—with the breaking up of one ta
tration and the formation of another—that the varioustw.ed.4
of late had so distracted his attention, that he was ebttr:a
turn over these matters to some less capable and less d bej,
able mind. A grosser misuse of confidence than 11°00'0
proved in the juggling with the funds of the Savings e°
he certainly never heard of. The stock which bad

was—
Three and a half per cents
Three per cents. reduced .
Three per cents. consolidated
AR 00°
Total £2 ilt
1
This heavy sum was sold by the Government, or their bie WIJ
for the purpose of working on the Funds, so as, to 0104
Noble Lord (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to reia pro
Four per Cents. What the Noble Lord's object etni aid ;1)
bly be in converting Stock into Exchequer Bills, be Pit
know. The Noble Lord said that by his operati°,,,n"
benefitted the Funds; but he (Mr. Baring) shoulu;c4
he would show him in what the advantage consist a; fiP
Commissioners had jobbed and gambled with the 411;rhei bed
were placed in their hands specifically as a trust. t, ift
been acting in a way that could not be justified. 'lrolostor
had done good, which he denied, their conduct war 00'04
prehensible. It was just as if a banker had sent his the oby
tial clerk with a heavy sum of money from one encl°olol-tsoo
to another, and that clerk had dropped in at L' my th
and played the money. He might say, " I 03117,"'osillgred
there is the money you entrusted me with ;" but WS, oit
had not won the throw ?—( Hear, hear.) The Ft el 4,4 0.00
peated, had not been benefitted, and the Noble Lord;eaucti
certainly failed in his operations with respect to tile