The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-11 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The House then went into Committee on the army es-
timates.

Mr. ELLICE said the first vote he should have to pro-
pose was f,m. thtt charge of staff officers. There was a
reduction under this bead in the vote of the present year
amounting to 12,0001. ; but, there being an excess of
5,0001. under the head of the medical staff, the total
amount of the reduction would be only 6,400/. The Right
lion. Gentleman concluded by moving that a sum of
110,831/. be granted for defraying the charges of the
general staff.
Mr. HUME said he should not go into the main ques-
tion, as the whole subject was to come under the consi•
deration of a Committee. He would take that opportu-
nity of putting a question relative to a circumstance said
to have recently occurred in Jersey. It would appear
that the Parliament of Jersey had given permission that
the public might be present at their proceedings. This,
however, was objected to by the Governor. Now it was
a matter of some importance that the public should not
feel dissatisfied with an officer in his situation; and it was
on this account he asked whether there was any foundation
for what he saw asserted upon this subject ?
Mr. G. LAMB said he was not prepared to answer
the question of the Hon. Member. He believed some
regulation of the ki❑d was made, but disallowed by the
Privy Council. He was not aware that the Governor had
more to do with it than any other Member of the Council.
The vote was agreed to.
_ _

The next vote proposed was for the charge of allowances
to officers of public departments, clerks, &c. &c., 94,6271.
In this vote, as compared with that of last year, there
was a reduction of 8,3871.

Mr. HUME said he was long of opinion that the office
of Paymaster-General should be entirely abolished. The
whole of the money under this head ought to come throuA
the Secretary at War. A sum of 13,0001. a year might
be saved in this way. Indeed be expected that, under a
reformed Parliament, the Paymaster-General himself would
have come down to the House and declared the situation,
with all its attendant expenses, unnecessary.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that a proposition bad been
made to abolish the office which he held for the present,
and that for the benefit of the public service. Now, with that
proposition he could not agree. This House might an-
swer it was necessary to abolish his office ; this House
might think it necessary to reduce the estimates which
were proposed ; but this be could fairly state, that the
reduction of the Paymaster of the Forces could not lead
much to the general economy in the expenditure of the
country.

Sir H. PARNELL considered that if the English Go-
vernment adopted the plan of the French Government, by
simplifying their accounts, they would accomplish much
for the general advantage of the English people. The
simplification of the public accounts would do a groat
deal of good to the country.
Mr. HUME—If that be the case, why not simplify the
accounts at once? If the Government did not do so, they
would be very properly accused of promising much, and
not performing any thing,
After a few words front Mr. RUTIVIEN and Mr. Et-
LICE, the vote was agreed to. . .

That 11,8501. be granted for medicines.—Agreed to.
That 33,4151. 9s. 10d. be granted for the charge of
garrisons at home and abroad.
That 103,1811. Is. be granted for the volunteer corps.
Mr. HUME said he considered the time was gone by
when volunteer corps were necessary in any part of the
country. The people of the country were loyal to their
King and their country, and there was no need of any
eleemosynary force to aid them.

Mr. ELLICE said that perhaps the permanent star of
volunteers might be dispensed with, and he would consider
of it. But still he thought that their entire reduction
would not lead to economy in the public expenditure. If,
however, any abuses existed in this department of the
public service, he would do all in his power to remedy
thetn.—(H,ar.)

Mr. JE RVIS said a few words which did not reach the
gulls ry.

Mi. O'CONNELL asked what way the meaning of
volunteers? In Ireland they were Orangemen, in Eng-
land they might be differeßt.

Mr. JONES—Has not the Hon. Member for Dublin
volunteered and been a volunteer, and excited persons to
become volunteers?

Mr. O'CONNELL—Certainly not, and the Hon.
Member, if he knew any thing, must know the fact.
Mr. RUTHVEN said he was decidedly opposed to the
maintenance of the yeomanry system in Ireland, as it was
against the feelings and opinions of the great majority of
the Irish people.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ELLICE said if injustice had been done in Ireland
in this respect he would do all he could to remedy it.
Mr. SHAW said that the yeomanry corps of Ireland
had always discharged their duty to their country, and he
would not permit them to be vilified on this occasion.

Mr. MlME—Perhaps the Irish volunteers discharged
their duty in other times, but why continue them at the
present time ? Why continue the Huddersfield cavalry
corps ? What had they done to command the respect of
the country ? Nothing.
An HoN. Micsfaxn said that the Huddersfield corps of
yeomanry had upon every occasion fully discharged their
duty to their King and country.--(Hear.)
Mr. G. LAMB said that, looking at the state of the
country in the year 1830, it was necessary to have the
assistance of the yeomanry corps, and they had when called
upon very ably discharged their duty. His Majesty's
Government had done all they could to reduce expendi-
ture, whether in staff or other allowances, and it' they
could do more they would be happy to do so. He thought
that the system now proposed would confer great benefit
upon the country.
Mr. JOHNSTONE said a few words which did not
reach the gallery.

Mr. R. WALLACE said that the petition alluded to
by the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) was intended to divide
one class of the people against the other, both in Scotland
and in Ireland. The flame had already been spread be-
tween the Orangemen and the Catholics of Ireland, and
he should be sorry to see it more widely extended.
Colonel PERCEVAL begged leave most positively to
deny that the Orangemen of Ireland were the cause of any
dissension in that country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. A. WALKER—Yes, that might be so ; but he
knew as a fact that the yeomanry in certain counties in
Ireland were positively maintained to shoot the Catholics.
—(No, no.) The fact he knew to he so, and therefore
he would oppose this grant.
The Earl of BELFAST defended the respectability of
the Irish yeomonry.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that it was a common practice
of the Irish yeomen to tire at Roman Catholics while in
the act of following some deceased relative to the grave.
This had happened in Belfast, the town the Noble Lewd
represented.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that a yeoman who had been
found guilty of a murder bad been recommended to mercy
because he was a good Orangetnan, a good Yeoman, and a
good Pretestaat. He contended that more disturbances
had been occasioned in Ireland by the yeomen than by any
other body of persons.
An HoN. MEMBER, protested against the statement of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin as exaggerated.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that although he might have
exaggerated the facts, the Hon. Gentlerna❑ who had just
spoken had admitted there was some truth for what he
had stated.
Mr. ELLICE said he should have no objecction to de-
duct the 2,0001. for the Huddersfield corps, and therefore
he hoped that the Hon. Member would allow the vote to
pass.
After some further conversation between Mr. Hume,
Mr. Guest, Mr. Methuen, Mr. Petre, Mr. J. Young, Mr.
Parrot, Mr. Fenton, and Lord Ebrington, the House
divided--
For the amendment 52
Against it 205
Majority -153
The vote was then agreed to.
17,500/. were granted for Exchequer fees.
119,0001. were granted for the pay of general Officers
not being Colonels of regiments.

--
86,0001. were granted for the full pay of reduced or
retired officers.

86,4801. were granted for the pensions of reduced or
retired officers of disbanded foreign regiments.
632,0001. were granted for the half-pay of reduced or
retired officers.

145,914/. were granted for the pensions and allowances
to widows of officers belonging to the land forces.
170,516/. were granted for defraying the allowances
paid out of the compassionate list.
Mr. ELLICE then moved that the sum of 1,211,7461.
gs. 2d. be granted for defraying the expenses of Chelsea
and Kilmainham Hospitals for the ensuing year. The
Right Hon. Gentleman said this vote had been reduced
188,0001.—The vote was agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to :-
51,3741.35. 6(L for superannuation allowances for civil
departments of the army.
12,5001. for Exchequer fees.
The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at half. past one o'clock, to Monday.

The influenza is very general in Frome.—
Bath Herald.

LONDON,
SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 11, 1833.

We congratulate all who have any respect for
public principle and enlightened feelings, on the
defeat of Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE, and the
triumphant return of Col. EVANS. Govern-
ment will see in this triumph—which, as a
marked sign of the times, is pregnant with im-
portance—the necessity of adapting their mea-
sures so as to promote not partial, but general
interests. On Monday next they will afford us
an opportunity of ascertaining whether they are
likely to profit by the lessons of experience ;
whether they will have the sagacity to concede
(we allude to the house and window taxes)
what cannot be much longer denied with safety
to the well-being of the community. Whether
with or without the consent of Ministers, these
oppressive taxes must go. The public sentence
of condemnation has gone forth against them.
As well might Government enact the part of
Mrs. Partington, and attempt to thrust back
the Atlantic with a mop, as insist on a pro..
tracted continuance of these iniquitous taxes.
Yet, though determined, the people are not un-
reasonable. They will make allowance for diffi-
culties, provided they see sincerity of intention. Let
Ministers, then, meet them half way. Let them
pledge themselves to some specific period for the
abolition of these crying grievances. Let them,
for instance, make a promise to remit both
house and window tax by January next ;—surely
this is giving them ample time for considera-
tions, contrivances, and so forth !—and they will
yet be able to retain their hold on public esteem.
But if they do not come to some speedy decision
of this sort, we would not insure their continu-
ance in office for a month.

The Times of this morning, in alluding to
the correspondence between Sir JOHN CAM
HOSHOUSE and Colonel EvANs, which we
were enabled to give at an early hour yesterday,
says the affair ended amicably and honourably
for all parties. We do not intend to dispute
the correctness of this statement, but we think
that as Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE avoided the alter-
natives of fighting or apologizing, by the usual
course of charging misrepresentations upon the
newspaper reporters, the Times, which is an
authority in its reports not easily to be discre-
dited even by the assertions of Sir JOHN HOB-
HOUSE, owes it to the individual whose cause
it has supported with so much zeal, to put for-
ward the admission of its reporter as to the in-
correctness of the report in question, if the ex-
pressions of Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE were really
such as he has stated them to have been.
Nothing short of such an admission, or the
testimony of impartial persons who were present
at the meeting, to the incorrectness of the re-
port, will, we are sure, convince the public that
the affair has ended honourably for all parties.
In the absence of proof as to the real language
used by Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE, the public will
think that it would have been more honourable
to have avowed the words really used, and to
have apologized for them on the ground of the
excitement under which they were uttered, and
the misinformation which gave them birth. This
would have been a straightforward course, and
one which would have done Sir JOHN Hos-
HOUSE more credit than fixing a charge of in-
accuracy on the reporter of the Times.
With respect to what the Times says on
other circumstances connected with the West-
minster election, we are able, of our own know-
ledge, to say that it has been deceived. It is not
true that Colonel EVANS has been returned by
a majority of less than one-third of the electors,
half the qualified electors having given their
votes, and as to the indifference of the remain-
ing electors, we can only say that there are more
than 1,200 unpolled electors, who declared to
the Committee of Colonel EVANS that they
held the political conduct of Sir JoHN Hos-
HOUSE in detes ation, and would willingly vote
for Colonel EVANS if they were not deterred
from doing so by influence, and at the same time
by a conviction that without their aid he would
gain the day. Within a hundred yards of the