The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-05 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 183

very brilliant victory ; and within one week after the
answer to the address was received, the author, as
lie
might call him, of that victory, who was an Englishman,
was punished to the utmost extent the Government had it
in their power to go. It was almost ridiculous for him
to say, for it was well -known, that without the means
'his country afforded, the war in Portugal could never
have been carried on. The King of Spain, who was much
interested in the contest, was told," You must not interfere ;
you must be neutral, or we will support Dan Pedro."
But were we not doing so now? could any reasonable
man say no, when it was so well known that every ship
which sailed from the Douro was filled with Englishmen,
and while, in the ranks of the invading army, every second
man belonged to this country. It was our duty to
have prevented that contest at the very commencement.
We ought to have recognized the Government, which
was the Government recognized by the countly—
which was the Government de facto. We ought to have
done so at the moment, because he was the Sovereign of that
country who had been called upon by us to perform treaties
between that country and this. The King of Spain
having altered the succession to his throne, Don Carlos,
feeling himself aggrieved, was distrusted, and ordered
into Italy. In place of that, he fled into Portugal,
but bad Don Miguel been treated by this country as he
ought to have been, he might have been required to refuse
him an asylum, and no doubt would have gladly complied.
Therefore it was, he said, that the civil war in Spain lead'
grown out of the civil war in Portugal. When his
Majesty before lamented, us he did in his present
speech, the continuance of the contest in Portugal, he
(the Duke of Wellington) had recommended them
to issue a proclamation, requiring all subjects in the service
of a foreign power to return. Had that advice been fol-
h}wed by Government, they would, no doubt, have pre-
vented such a state of things as required his Majesty to
repeat the lament which was contained in his former
speech.—(Hear, hear.) Then, as regarded Turkey,
he assured their Lordships that on that subject he did not
intend to speak by guess, but from experience. On a former
occasion, Mehemet Ali (Pacha of Egypt) had been told
by this country that he could not he allowed to carry on a
certain war, and that war was stopped. Had this country,
in the wars of 1832 and 1833, taken the same
course, and said you must not carry on the
war in Syria, you must not attack the Porte,
there could be no doubt that the acme results would have
followed, and there need not be that apprehension which
now existed as to the conduct and views of the
Emperor of Russia with respect to unfortunate
Turkey. There could have been no doubt that such
advice would have been followed, especially if it had
been supported by a fleet in the Levant, and Turkey
would have been saved without the intervention
or protection of Russia—but instead of that, our fleets
were in the Tagus seeking redress for imaginary
wiongs, or in the channel blockading our old ally, the
Dutch.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) In what state
were our old allies at present ? There were Holland,
Portugal, Spain, and, if he might be allowed to say,
Turkey, in almost a state of hostility to us, and indeed
were 'educed to so low a state as to be almost out of

the pale of Europe.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Another
question that was broached was the poor laws,
and he really trusted that something would now be done
for their improvement. They bad already been three
years in agitation, and he hoped the promise of the
Noble Lord opposite would be fulfilled ; for he again, on
that bead, had to complain of the obscurity of the speech.
Then, in order, catoe the question of reform in the
Municipal Corporations. • During the recess he had
seen many learned opinions as to the illegality of the Com-
missions under which the evidence had been taken. He
did not, of course, mean to give any opinion of his own
upon that point ; but be would say that, in his opi-
mon, it would be very improper to proceed upon re-
ports of the Commissioners while there remained the
slightest doubt of the legality of their appointment.
Upon that subject he must be permitted to make one
more observation, which was, that it would never answer
to found a system of municipal constitutions, the same as
the Reform Bill had proceeded on, namely, the 10/.
franchise. He was convinced that even Government
would not now say that they had so much confi-
dence in that la franchise as to say, that they would
found a municipal constitution upon it. The next ques-
tion, and certainly not of the least importance, was that
of tithes. It was one of greater importance than any
other that could come under their Lordships' observation
during the ensuing session, and it Mould require the unre-
mitting attention of both Houses. He had read many speeches
made by Members of the Government as well as by their
most intimate friends, during the recois, and they deserved
the attention, and most ri4id surveillance of the House.
What bad teen done in a former session as regarded
the Irish Church rendered it their Lordship' bounden duty
to look very narrowly at, and most particularly watch,
the measures which the Government introduced with
respect to that question. One thing that made it more
necessary still, was, the fate of two Bills regarding the
church, which a Most Rev. Prelate had introduced and
got passed throagh that House. Yet notwithstanding the
omnipotent power of the Ministry in the other House, they
had been unable to carry them to a successful conclusion.
There was another subject with regard to which the in-
tentions of his Majesty's Government had not been at all
stated in the speech from the throne—be alluded to the
Irish Coercion Bill.—(Hear.) There could be no doubt
whatever that the greatest benefit bad been derived by
Ireland from that necessary and most salutary measure.—
(" Hear, hear," from both sides of the House.) He
would not say that the execution of it, for be believed that
it had been scarcely carried into execution in a single
instance, but that the existence of it had effected the
greatest benefit for that country; and he therefore thought
that when his Majesty's Government came down to Par-
liament, and stated as they did in a paragraph of the
speech from the throne, that " the public tranquillity
bad been generally preserved, and that the state of all the
provinces of Ireland presented, upon the whole, a much
more favourable appearance limn at any period during the
last year," they should have at the same time informed
their Lordships whether it was their intention to propose
the renewal of that Bill, to which such desirable con-
sequences were mainly attributable which Bill, as
their Lordships were aware, would, if not renewed,
expire at the end of the present session of Parliament.
At present their Lordships knew nothing of the inten-
tions of his Majesty's Government on that point ; they
only knew that Ministers complained of the agitation
which had been practised in Leland on the subject
of the Union. Now, he would repeat that Ministers
should have told them whether it was their intention
to propose the renewal of that measure, to which was
owing the restoration of something like peace and tran
quillity in that part of the United Kingdom. He wished
now to address to their Lordships a few observations with
respect to the question of Irish tithes. Now, with regard
to any measure 'which it might be the intention of his
Majesty's Government to bring forward on that subject,
he begged in the first instance to say this—that, as far as
he could learn, the clergy of the Church of Ireland were
at present precisely in the same miserable situation in
which they bad been for the last seventeen or eighteen
months. If that therefore was the case, notwithstand-
ing the measures which had been brought forward and
passed on a former occasion in reference to the clergy
of Ireland, he must say that, it that race of men was
to be preserved at all, their Lordships should lose no
time in passing whatever measures were required to
complete the arrangement with respect to the Church
of Ireland.—(Hear, bear, bear.) He believed, as he
had already stated, that the clergy of the Church of
Ireland were at present in the most miserable and
destitute condition. If, as be learned upon the best
authority, they were reduced to the lowest ebb of dis-
tress, so much so that many of them had been
obliged to drop insurances which they had formerly ef-
fected on their lives for the benefit of their families—that
of advantageous arrangements which, in several instances,
they had in former years adopted with regard to their
property, they had sow lost every thing—that in conse-
quence of such distress, so many of them had been under
the necessity of taking the boon which was held out to
them under the mast unfavourable circumstances by the
Government Bill of last Session,—if, he repeated, such
was the case, and he believed there was no doubt that it
was so, their Lordships, he was sure, would agree with
him in thinking that no time should be lost in bringing
forward whatever measures were required to complete the
arrangement with respect to the Church of Ireland, and
to rescue that most deserving race of men, the clergy of
that Church, from such an unparalleled state of suffering
and distress.—(Hear.) He had telt it his duty on this
occasion to offer these observations to their Lordships,

though, as he had already stated, it was not his intention
to dye any opposition to the address which had just been
proposed for Oteir Lordships' adoption.
Earl GREY then rose. He had been in hopes that
the present evening would have passed away without i.
being considered necessary to have resorted to the opposi-
tion which the Noble Duke had thought proper to pursue.
That Noble individual had thought it necessary to state
that the speech was replete with nothing. That com •
plaint, be believed, might be made of many of the King's
speeches; and most probably to many of those of which
the Noble Duke himself had been the adviser.—(Hear.
hear.) It was a complaint arising in a great degree
out of the thing itself, because the short space of time
in which that article was drawn up, and the short space
that it occupied, rendered it impossible to advert particu-
larly to the subjects under discussion. He (the Noble
Earl) thought, that if their Lordships looked at the present
speech with a less prejudiced eye than the Noble Duke, they
would see many most important subjects introduced into
it, and many intimations given of the course intended to
be adopted by his Majesty's Government. The Noble
Duke, in the next place, bad complained that no measure
had been distinctly stated. Upon that he would
have to remark, when he came to the various topics to
which the Noble Duke had alluded. But previously, be
would wish to take notice of some of the different matters

which the Noble Duke had thought proper to state. First,
'A•ith respect to the subject of West Indian slavery, and
afterwards with regard to foreign policy. The Noble Duke
had stated that he should rejoice as much as any mau
if it should be found that the apprehensions which be
en.ettained of the measure for the relief of slavery, and

its pernicious effects, were totally without any sufficient
grounds. But he stated that he did not see such pro-
gress made, such conclusions come to, and such definitive
urangments effected, as could enable Government
to pronounce that measure successful. With respect to
that, he ',egged only to say, that it was not so stated in
the King's speech.—(Hear, bear.) He was well aware
that great difficulties still existed, but a final settle-
ment was what he most anxiously wished, and

looked for.—(Hear, hear.) What was stated in the
King's speech was,—nd this he thought a subject of
great congratulation with the country, and could not
be contradict,cl,--that that measure had been generally
received throughout the colonies in a manner that must
give great satisfaction. It had been received there in a
manner directly contrary to that alluded to by the Noble
Dube and others who opposed the measure.—(Hear,
hear.) The Governor-General of Jamaica had con-
gratulated the Assembly on the passing of the mea-
sure, which he had stated would have the effect of
producing the most beneficial results, and that assembly
had done what it had been stated it never would do,—it

had passed a measure to carry emancipation into effect.
—(11 ar, hear.) With respect to the other paint 'that
had been alluded to by the Noble Duke, when their
Lordships came to consider candidly and impartially the
statements in the King's speech, he was sure they
would never feel called upon to arraign his Majesty's
Ministers after the manner of the Noble Duke on the
unsatisfactory expressions in the speech, but would con-
gratulate them for having pursued and adopted measures
calculated to produce tl.e best effects throughout the coun-
try. He trusted that that tneasur e which bad been begun
would be so carried into effect as to produce the final ex-
tinction of slavery—the greatest curse, in his opinion, of
the human race. More than this he did not feel called
upon to say upon the present question. With reference to
the other bead, to which the Noble Duke had adverted
namely, the foreign policy of the country—be must be
allowed to say, in reply to his severe censures, that he
considered his Majesty's Ministers totally unworthy
of them.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to Holland,
the Noble Duke, the advocate of the King of that country,
had declared that it was impossible that that Sovereign
could submit to the injustice that had been offered him,
and that while this country persevered in that course, it
never could he expected that an adjustment could take
place. Now he would remind the Noble Duke of
the situation in which his Majesty's present Ministers
found the subject when they came into office. A separa-
tion bad virtually taken place between that kingdom and
Belgium, a re-establishment of confidence had not taken
place, and the countries were in a state of decided
hostility with each other. With respect to Holland and
Belgium, he felt that the connection between them was
dissolved for ever, and it was impossible thit those two
nations could be re-united. The only object, therefore, was
how their separation could be effected on principle, it
would but conduce to the happiness and independence of
both. But it was said we were imposing terms, and that
we had not acted throughout this affair in concert with
our spies. The Noble Duke, if he referred to the
papers, would see, that at the time of the conference,
it was stated by all the Ministers present, that all hopes
of negotiation were at an end, in consequence of the
delays and evasion of Holland.—(Hear, hear.) He
had proofs to support him in saying, that in consequence
of these delays, it was in vain to hope to effect
a settlement by negotiation, and that some measure
of coercion was requited.—(Lnud cheers.) These
were the general principles of the treaty that was agreed on,
reserving the particulars to a future time. Toe Noble Duke
said that the troubles of Holland and Belgium were all
owing to the conduct of his Majesty's Government, and
that their conduct bad produced this state of things.
The Noble Duke was a high authority, not only in this
country, but in all Europe ; and the Noble Duke,
whilst expressing these sentiments, must have known
how little encouragement was wanting to induce the
laity, upon whom the conclusion or procrastination of these
affairs mainly depended—how little was wanting to in-
duce this party to put off the settlement to the ut-
most period.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Duke said that
things remained in precisely the same situation as they
were two years ago, but he could tell the Noble Duke that
on the contrary things had materially changed.—( Hear.)
Belgium was now in a state of security. It had nothing
to fear from the King of the Netherlands. It was so favour-
ably situated that it had no reason whatever to press for a
conclusion of the peace. A peace would not be concluded
till a very different spirit was introduced into the councils
of the Dutch. More he would not say on this subject at pre-
sent, but be should be ready, whenever the Noble Duke
should please to discuss the conduct of Ministers, to defend
their.policy.—(Hear, hear.) In the meantime, he would
rest satisfied. Much had been done to effect the peace of
Europe, and still longer to extend the period of peace;
but till there was a greater disposition to accommodation
and settlement, he felt that it was necessary that things
should remain as they were. The next topic alluded to
by the Noble Duke was the civil war in Portugal. He
felt as sincerely as the Noble Duke,—and he gave
the Noble Duke credit for sincerity—be felt that this
civil war was a great and a grievous calamity. But the
Noble Duke said that this calamity was owing to the
fault of his Majesty's Ministers, and that they ought
not to support a Government bounded on usurpation.
The Noble Duke said, that as a means of putting an end
to the civil war in Portugal, they ought to have acknow-
ledged Don Miguel as King of that country. How did it
happen that for the three years of the Noble Duke's Ad-
ministration—(Cheers)—such an acknowledgment did not
take place? Don Miguel was as much then as now de facto
Sovereign, and be appears to have had theta, as
much as subsequently, the general acquiescence of
the Portuguese nation.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
How, then, did it happen, that during the administration
of the Noble Duke be had never acknowledged Don
Miguel?—(Cheers.) How did it happen that, even when
the Noble Duke was going out of office, he said that there
were certain things necessary tiefore he could acknowledge
Don Miguel? This was never done—(Loud cheers)—
Dan Miguel had not done what the Noble Duke
himself said was necessary to be done before be could
be acknowledged by this country. The promised amnesty
had never been granted; on the contrary, his cruelty and op-
pression had increased daily;and upon every principle, there-
tore, they could not acknowledge Don Miguel. The Noble
Duke referred to the attempt of Don Pedro, and this, said
the Noble Duke, Government ought to resist.—(Hear,
hear.) It was not possible, having seen the
extraordinary manner in which Don Miguel had
not only broken through all the ties of duty
to his legitimate sovereign, and a'so to his brother,—it
was not possible, he (Earl Grey) could not find it in his
heart, to resist a father contending for the just and acknow-
ledged rights of his daughter.—(Cheers.) A war took
place; there had been already many discussions upon
it; he would not go over them again ; but be
would tepeat here that be thought he had satisfacto-
rily answered the accusations made against
nisters. He considered this a contest between a
usurper and in acknowledged sovereign. But under the