The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-22 00:00:00

4,',..--.....,
14110°Invaa that. the Report be printed : then the Right Hon. Gen-
Wastight make his explanation ; but he ( Mr. O'Connell)
L r eady to adopt any better mode of proceeding.
Fri: rd ALTHORP apprehended that his Right Hon.
plane id would wish for the earliest possible opportunity of , ex-
!ion ; if that opportunity could be given this evening, it
ktelainiri iitebcle.. very desirable. Perhaps the Hon. and Learned
e per Could this evening make his motion that the Report
—(Hear. )
adopt ' O'(.:101'; NELL, with the leave of the House, would
11,illt that.
H$ tourse, and would make the motion as soon as the
ig
''' an . Gentleman arrived in the House.
Oa t SAVINGS' BANKS.
t ,„ d .4. .e motion of Mr. BARING, and with the consent of
oil ''' .lthorp, a return was ordered of all purchases and sales
ti i t°' .ik and Exchequer Bills made by the Commissioners for
, e„re duction of the National Debt, from January Ist, 1833,
of; nth the dates, the manner in which they had been disposed
t id whether by open competition, or private bargain.
DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL.
j);_. le question was then put for the second reading of the
711 irbances Suppression (Ireland) Bill.
TZ.,/4 '. SCROPE said that he had no other connection with
he a
14, d than sincere sympathy with her sufferings, and that
A„. s* ould have remained silent had he found that any other
imprtLert her
.. had taken the same view of the subject that had
°llg3ii
sea him. He had a strong conviction that Parliament
ba • not to legislate for the suppression of local distur-
„,llal s without having first before it a clear knowledge of the
O'rcilll7, 3+ the present state of the country. 'Ministers, in
had - ~,:i jus.,
, fy th.e measure both here and in the other House,
disc Banc-
and relied upon the connection between prwdial
ilinav
,tr7taruncet:s 'and political agitation ; but it seemed never to
'them that the insurrectionary spirit now prevailing
fifty ° L:lti had been of the same character during the last
tilos e-r B'l' ty years. The Whiteboy outrages were similar to
dent ~, n°v •, daily committed ; and an examination of the evi-
of th an i correspondence showed that the object of seventy
at tile' " trages in the first list was to obtain work and wages
the (e ° fly means of subsistence. If the House inquired into
repo law 3C of this state of things, it had not far to go ; for the
It,
Div,. of committees in 1825 and 1832, especially the last,
fa,,,ed that the main cause was the removal of tenants from
be.s7 at the expiration of old leases. Much praise had been
No` As
ded in some quarters upon the report of 1832 ; but he
of, not join in the encomiums, for he thought he saw the finger
ar
tia le landlord i'n every line of it. The real cause of the agra-
a disturbanc es in -Ireland was the competition for land
c ihangst the starving peasantry of that unhappy country. The
ej4llsequence •of this competition was to be seen in the frequent
leectments. The Bishop of Meronia, in one of his letters,
seribed tb e ejectment of several families ; and he (Mr.
aatPe) had several letters addressed to himself, which showed
• 'that the syst em was still going on as far as landlords dared to
ZIT it into effect. It was not difficult to conceive what must
lthe remit of such proceedings in a country where no Poor
a's existed, on which these destitute beings could fall back
a
-upport ; where there were no manufactures, and where the
• exist and culture of the land was the sine qua non of
,zistence, and the only source of employment. The laws of
Ireland -
I'll„, 'tc 'O, were calculated to add to this cause of misery.
oth-re Was the Sub-letting Act, the Civil Ejectment Bill, and
rs, WI deli gave the landlords a reater facility of turning
out th
Wh °se poo r creatures homeless and destitute upon the world.
the ° nr°4'll:l -not say that circumstances and sufferings such as
se did y.
combine co t almost justify their combination ? Men must

A N or redress when they have no other means of redress.
ti oble rd admitted the other evening that without protec-
w°ll afford ed there was no claim for allegiance. lie would ask,
alren.t;he Ilisl peasant protected? Had they a right to demand
rule/Ice ft 'om him ? The landlord was spending in London,
other capitals, gnat produce which, being thus spent,
twi:sh!h e val idate of death to the peasantry, and was driving
mitt—, by wholesale murders to the outrages they corn-
"*". Yes, would repeat it, murders and murders
°Peratinr •

once 'g sucha way, that it would be far more humane a,
aloefor toot t'ne victims. All were alike liable to ejectment,
assist the A-
re a-ear and consequently all were prepared to
•
kthaitted sYst em of 'violence and outrage. Would it not be
only the that the Whiteboy and Whitefoot systems were the
tem, cAs upon the practice of ejectment ? and these sys-
pat al 'their consequent outrages, it would be impossible to
was 4:14:,n, until some system of laws with regard to property
the 41se d, which would be calculated for the protection of
t'°°r
away
Ir* o f Ireland. There was one way, and only one, to do
Ith outrages—to der coerci u—and tat
asth shia
P 1 y doing justiceren on
to the poor. Beforennecessa the enactmehnt
e

Ir
-"Pe or laws this country exhibited the same aspect which
tar ru- oes now ; and why not meet the same evil by a simi-
6ur4rm •' ? That which was just in England, would as-
teeti be just in Ireland also. It was necessary for the pro-
The"- *ef England, that some such measure should be passed.
t
poor
,nglish landlords now paid a large portion of the
d 'al'e lsupport for the of the Irish; and the absence of
atioltaur- rate in Ireland, pressed upon the proprietor here
in
the form, by enabling the Irish produce to come into
graot ingll4ll market and undersell ours. The Irish emi-
the 's also met our labourers in the market, and lowered
ha rate rate of wages; not only those who came over in theo
tedestdtime for temporary employment, but many others wh
lord.
.2Pin permanently in this country. The English land-
e°V,(l not oppress the tenant in the way the Irish landlord
would
c"cemewieuscieprever.ted by the poor-rate, as the poverty he
would must revert upon him through that tax. He
loolcby reading his resolution, which might be
p uP," as a truism :—" That in order to secure life and
o,r,°t'-Y in Ireland, to remove every pretext for crime and
wirirea may d to give effect to whatever measure of severity
the be adopted for its suppression, it is expedient that
k?rt_ e populaiion. of that island be assured of the means of sup-
in,g life 'Pay Peaceful tiouse shalt and honest industry ; and that this
some at the earliest opportunity, turn its attention to
.st. me re calculated to accomplish this most desirable
vojeet.,.

11r: ( )'C ONNOR seconded the resolution, and felt that
sa Irish Member, he was bound to return his most sincere
thanks to, the Hon. Gentleman who introduced it ; at the
lorne time, he could not help expressing his wonder how that
Imelt 1". G, !.tleman could, in so short a time, make himself so
ace tuainted with the circumstances of the country. He
V!
tilcitus m eh° wn
that competition and its consequences were the
s alive of agrarian outrage. In this he was borne out
_pinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Master of

Au, ant (Mr AbercrO-mby), and he would ask, after
ref
-o* incid'ence, could the Right Honourable Gentleman
pteise to support this motion ? He knew of his own ex-
fr -„e11(e in Ireland, that the most disgraceful means were
thear;eatl y resorted to for ousting tenants in possession ;
-oving farmers were looked upon by their landlords
in 1/
ous eyes, and when their improvements were proceeded
ene,„• Certain extent, they were then, by some sort of chi-
.
the • 'or management, thrust out upon the world, reckless of
ad con) iequence, to make way for others who were ready to
ittv°ltrlce fresh money in the shape of fines for the land thus
rp,1;;!‘) ,cl. The Irish landlords were not worse than the
•Llie latter were compelled to consult the comfort
tenantry, whose ruin would fall back upon them in the
14)3: 'of poor laws. It was circumstances which made the
Itt, landlords appear worse than the English. The proposed
he a:ure
was calculated to obviate those circumstances; and
taild ""'d beg of Hon. Members to pause ere they rejected so
k o humane, and so necessary a measure.
the LITTLETON had hoped that so late in the session,.
deo) !reserat would be allowed to pass by without the iGnterno-
tier, 'lea of this subject. The argument of the Hon. _ -
ter system of
bed lan seemed to be, that as the outrages had grown out ofhae
property, no measure should be adopted for t
co Ill'ession of those outrages. In this sort of reasoning he
th;:d not concur. He could not help expressing his regret,
riel; the Hon. Gentleman who brought forward this motion had
haat 'ea with such asperity of the Irish landlords. In some
!Au:aces, he admitted, they were open to animadversion ; but
erl
they were not all such as the Hon. Gentleman had
if hed them. The Honourable Gentleman had argued
Al
,ofall the Whiteboy outrages in Ireland had been committed
eject
tenants. Now, he (Mr. Littleton) knew something
to the composition of those by whom these violences were
• er.arnitted; and from all the information which he could ac-
ttplr! on the subject, it appeared that these associations were
a(;ttne rnost part composed of farmers' servants. He would
be, °entiPy the time of the House in following the Hon. Mem-
-114 through all his observations ; but he thought notice should
eulaewheea given of the introduction of such a topic, so incal-
very Portant, and which might perhaps be productive of
ritiiißreat evil. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by
state-6. that the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the
%Jai • the Nor in Ireland would make their report before the
ng session.
tettir• W. ROCHE did not consider there was sufficient pro-
The-4„or life and property in Ireland without poor laws.
Trot evils arising from the present system of rack rents would
kr got rid of without some such remedy.
other • T- ATTWOOD said that according to Blackstone and
lairetigrl:at authorities, no obedience to the laws could be re-
tier artless the law insured support to every individual. The lithe,ern,asaent was bound to provide honest bread for honest
I• a•edial
te r,
land, and if that provision were made, there would disturbances. He thanked his Majesty's Mihis-
• very large mitigation they had made in the Bill ;
rel had
ther was convinced it had not tended to diminish crime,
IN they had it overboard gether. As Cto Ireland, Ministersthrown were altogetheralto wrong. The
gf oot,,cvaa wrong. Poverty, grinding poverty, was the cause
NPee, -"Kos in Ireland ;• and if the Noble Lord opposite did not
iply do something to get rid of that cause, he hoped the
44,1 e Lord himself would suffer some of that pinching poverty,
1114 then
he would know what it was.—( Great laughter.) All
.of thwas required for Ireland was to restore to her the benefit
''Seat his brovv..—( A lau
original curse of God, that every man should live by the
!alp° (3'e 0 NNELL really thought that a subject of so great
4airi;tance as that of Poor Laws for Ireland, could not. be
I,Blleci°.iriPrelrerly discussed at so late a period of the session,
41ouse-LY when brought on without notice.—(Hear.) The
hetu,_ ?mild not be expected to enter into the discussion,
tivenae should be glad that the fullest attention should be
theref,„7 the subject at the commencement of next session. He
kettle' no the Hon. Gentleman would not press his
`t e' rapit Pea division. He would presently have an oppor-
Of th'" 7: stating to them, he feared at some length, what parts
of ill he thought should still be omitted, and what parts
there tyorer
to th7,,13i1l he should feel it his duty to support as a protection
classes in Ireland. Of the crimes that prevailed
ttost4ll;o7.rase.,Well known that he had.. always testified the ut-
"eval.,.....(shael.lear"vc.AeyNand had used all his influence to prevent
er tr f r brin •
ot; S
expressed his thanks to the Hon. Mem-
Pas thstt,__, ging forward this important question,
~q4lng it
overl'Purrament at the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
..,,rovertlniellr so
f g-t.y. He attached much blame to the
13-Qr,loredazzLeig mergigthtehidsissutrbejsescto,f aprdelia'nndde.ed all practi-
-1'044 forty:l:l4oßP said that the question which had been
Was one of very great consequence; and