The Sun.
London, England, 1851-11-07 00:00:00

FRIDAY

EVENING, NOVEMBER 7, 1851.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

TIMES.—The Royal Commissioners in Hyde-
park have come to the conclusion that, after discharg-
ing all the expenses of the Exhibition, they have ex-
hausted the powers of their charter, and have no
authority to deal with the surplus. On this point,
therefore, as also on another very intimately connected
with it—that is, the fate of the building—the public
curiosity must consent to be balked till her Majesty
has granted another charter, with further powers.
Besides the legal difficulty which was partly admitted
last session, when it was stated that an Act of Parlia-
ment would be necessary to wind up affairs and con-
firm the disposition of the surplus, the question is
embarrassed by the multitude of rival projects, and
still more by some important considerations connected
with the site. The actual surplus, after an immense
amount of work has been paid for and merit remune-
rated, cannot be safely estimated at much over
150,0001. Most people, we are aware, expected more
out of 505,0001., the gross receipts of the Exhibition,
but they had not considered, probably, the immense
additions, and even alterations, on the original plan,
which was, indeed, a mere shell of glass. Now 150,0001.,
though a surplus that would have been thought a
wild estimate a twelvemonth ago, is yet very in-
adequate for any purpose which shall be a worthy
and lasting memorial of the Great Exhibition. It is
very inadequate of itself, but it is a respectable sum,
considered as the well-earned endowment of an ex-
isting edifice like the Crystal Palace, occupying one
of the best sites near the metropolis, and the focus of
many splendid and many affectionate associations.
The object, then, is to rescue as much as possible of
this wreck, for some sort of wreck there is in the
close of a great undertaking, and gather together as
much as possible of all the other fruits of the Exhibi-
tion besides its pecuniary surplus. Certainly this
year has given a very great start to the cause of in-
dustry, science, and peace, and it is a pity that start
should not be maintained by every means in our
power. Though the Commissioners consider them-
selves precluded from applying the surplus, they
point out the use which they hold to be most in cha-
racter with the Exhibition. They recommend that
something should be done, as far as possible open and
equal to all nations, which may increase the means
of industrial education, and extend the influence of
science and art upon productive industry." This
is a comprehensive description of the work to be done,
and, but that it seems almost impossible, suggests
a permanent form of the Great Exhibition. Such a
thing, supposing it to be possible, will certainly
unite most suffrages in its favour, and i 3 open to the
fewest objections. It is clear that we must not reckon
on periodical exhibitions such as that of 1851. An
attempt to repeat it, even ten years hence, would pro-
bably be a failure. The sum of 150,0001. would go
a very little way in founding and maintaining a school
of art, a college, or any apparatus of lectures, exhibi-
tions, and other academical appendages. On review-
ing all that may be done with the money alone, and
all that may be done with that money in conjunc-
tion with the edifice, the site, and the prestige of the
Great Exhibition, it certainly does seem a very great
pity to throw away an existing and hard-fought ad-
vantage. If certain objections could be got over, and
the Crystal Palace could be adapted to permanent
purposes, that would be a beginning worth the co-
operation of the public and the assistance of Parlia-
ment. England cannot but enjoy the greater share
in the benefits which are to be offered ostensibly to
all nations, so it would only be reasonable ;that she
should take a larger share in the cost, and meet the
surplus earned and contributed by all nations
with a handsome Parliamentary grant. It is
commonly supposed that by the terms of the con-
tract the Commissioners will simply lose 70,000/.
or 80,0001. by giving up the building to the core,
tractors, and that this is the whole of the pecuniary
difference between its preservation and its destruc-
tion. But, as generally happens with contracts, and
as could not fail to happen with an undertaking of this
novel character, there is much to be paid for which is
not in the contract. The building as it stands has
cost so much more than the original estimate that
its destruction would be a clear loss of 150,0001. to
the public. This certainly affects the question of
keeping up the building, and powerfully reinforces
the regrets with which its demolition is so generally
contemplated. It is true that a good deal must be
done to the building before it can be adapted to any
permanent purpose ; but Messrs. Fox and Hender-
son, as we are informed, are prepared to substitute a
roof which they can guarantee for many years, at
the cost of 20,000/. ; and Sir Joseph Paxton under-
takes that the whole of the vast edifice can, if ne-
cessary, be kept for a moderate sum at the ordinary
temperature of an orangery throughout the hardest
winter. As for the other objections, from what has
been called the Prince's-gate interest, we have always
been disposed to allow them great weight. Of course,
the proprietor of o splendid mansion overlooking
the park suffers a great loss, if not a legal damage,
by the substitution of a monster greenhouse.
But may not this grievance he met by some species
of compensation ? What if Knightsbridge barracks
and their abominable adjuncts, together with many
of the low houses between them and Albert-gate,
should at last suffer the fate with which they have
long been threatened, and to which they were some
time since all but condemned ? We believe we may
My that, but for the change of Ministry in 1846, the
site of Knightsbridge barracks would ere this have
been occupied with a handsome row of houses
fronting Hyde-park, and with private gardens
opening upon common pleasure-grounds, like those
near Apsley House. The whole of this neighbour-
hood is destined for improvement, which, however, is
impossible so long as the barracks are the dominant
feature and influence of the locality. The removal of
this nuisance to another and less obtrusive site is even
easier than we thought for. There is plenty of Crown
land to the west of Kensington Palace which would
do for the purpose, besides sites that could easily be
purchased. Now, if these barracks, riding-school,
&c., were removed, the noble occupants of Stratheden
House at all events would be the gainers on the ba-
lance of change, and even the malcontents of
Prince's-gate would not have much to complain
of. Into so vast a building it is easier to say what
might than what might not be admitted. The ques-
tion is, how much of the Exhibition should be per-
mitted to remain. Of course a bazaar cannot be per-
mitted, but there can be no reason why examples of
inventions or workmanship should not be exhibited to
any extent, so that visitors from all parts of the world
may be enabled to see in one view the present state
of scientific and manufacturing art. There would
also be room for those other ornamental objects, and
even for what seems to have inspired an unreason-
able degree of apprehension in some quarters—a
winter garden. But the great use of such a building,
and the great desideratum of this metropolis, would be
a collection of pyhsical and economic science, such as
can be easily made, and is now, indeed, in the process
of formation, from the numerous collections sent by
private exhibitors. As we have observed long since,
if the building can be effectually adapted to the pur-
pose, so as to exclude all injurious atmospheric in-
fluences, as far as they can be excluded in this cli-
mate, the physical collection now overflowing the
British Museum might find a more suitable depository
in Hyde-park. It has also been suggested that por-
tions of the building might be adapted for historical
galleries, like those of Versailles, and for which eve
have no lack of subjects in British history. Altera-
tions would be necessary in the structure, but they
need not be very costly, or all at once. These, how-
ever, are questions which we cannot consider for-
midable, for they are capable of an exact and practical
solution. Only say what is to be done, and there are
plenty of people who can reckon the cost, and do it
for the money.

RAILWAY TRAFFIC RETURNS.
NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE RAILWAY. —(Miles open, 112. )
Return of traffic for the week ending Oct. 26 :
Railway and canal . ... £5,014 0 0
Corresponding week last year ... 4,735 0 0
Note. —The above is exclusive of the receipts available
under the agreement with the London and North-Western
Railway Company.

BRISTOL AND EXETER RAILWAY. —Traffic for tin week
ending Oct. 26 :
Passengers ... ... ... £2,605 8 8
Goods ...• ••• ••• •• 1,309 1 1
Parcels ••• ••• ••• 1.1•• 155 18 7
Mails .4. ••• ••• ••• 223 4 2

Total £4,293 12 6
SHREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY.TIaffiC re-
ceipts for the week ending Nov. 2 :
Passengers ... ... ... £266 3 5
Carriages, horses, and. parcels ... 14 13 4
Live stock ... 12 16 10
Merchandise and minerals ... 229 10 5

Total .. £523 4 0
Corresponding period last year.. 556 5 0

MANCHESTER, BUXTON, MATLOCK, AND MIDLANDS JUNC-
TION RAILWAY.—Return of traffic for the week ending
Nov. 2 : _
___

Passengers, &c. £7O 9 2
Merchandise ... ... 90 14 8

Total ... ••• ... £l6l 310
Corresponding week last year ... 114 1 0

HEALTH OF THE BISHOP OF GLOUCESTER.--We
hear that the Bishop of Gloucester and Bristol has been
ordered by his physician to abstain from all episcopal and
clerical duty, and will, in all probability, shortly leave Eng-
land for a renewed and lengthened sojourn in one of the
milder climates of the south of Europe. His Lordship is at
present at Brighton.—Bath Chronicle.
THE STEAM-SHIP ATLAIITIC,--, Our Liverpool
correspondent, in his communication of yesterday, says :
As yet we have no tidings of the steam-ship Atlantic, which
was to sail from New York on the 25th ultimo. It is gene-
rally considered that she has not sailed on her day. There
are several parties here who indulge the unpleasant idea
that she has again broken down, and probably put into Cork.
Be this as it may, considerable anxiety is felt for the appear-
ance of the noble ship. The Atlantic, although not out
much beyond a fair passage, is certainly considerably over
the average runs she has previously made.

THE RAMSHAY INQUIRY AT PRESTON.
PRESTON, THURSDAY.—Last night after our report
was dispatched, when the reading of the evidence was
concluded—

Mr. Monk proceeded to contend that the statements
of the judge fully made out the inference of the me-
morialists, that Mr. Ramshay was unfit to hold that
office. Expressions had been used by Mr. Ramshay
even up to yesterday, which showed the animus with
which he was actuated, and he had threatened to in-
dict all the persons who had subscribed towards the
expenses of Mr. Whitty.
At this period (half-past five o'clock) the Court ad-
j ourned till Thursday.
ges weredt
o excite
xwciresumeditthe hise t r
addresse ad interest.
morningtoenretsth.
the
t ten
p Monk
ono
ncd ek
se
ed i
proceeded
mn
o'clock,ArTliw.
of the memorialists, and contended that he hapdarat
right to bring forward any matters bearing upon the
conduct and temper of Mr. Ramshay even since the
memorial.
The Earl of Carlisle was of opinion that tip,
Learned Counsel ought not to enter into matters
which had occurred subsequently to the
memorial
Mr. Monk, in conclusion, contended that the ;hole
conduct of Mr. Ramshay exhibited inability and want
of temper, which unfitted him for the bench. The
speech made by Mr. Ramshay at the dinner and in
court, showed that he had a morbid sensibility upon
the dignity of his office, and a temper not under suffi-
cient control for his duties. On one day he had fined
no less than six persons for alleged contempt. Such
a circumstance was perhaps unparalleled in any other
court whatever. Applause in a court of justice was
to be deprecated, but he (Mr. Monk) never knew of
judges convicting persons by wholesale in this manner.
He thought the very worst feature in the case was
Mr. Ramshay's allusion to the man Joyce, to which
he adverted yesterday. The liberty of the press and
person in Liverpool was deeply interested in this in-
quiry, and he would say that liberty would exist in
name only, if such proceedings could be tolerated.
The following evidence was then adduced :
George Dudley Cooper said he was a reporter to
the Liverpool papers. He was present at the Liver-
pool County Court on the :25th of August, when Mr.
Ramshay made a speech.
Cross-examined by Sergeant Wilkins—Was not
retained for any particular paper. Had been at
Liverpool nine months. Was present on the occasi▪
on
when Mr. Ramshay spoke about the fist of a witness
being closed. Don't recollect Mr. Ramshay calli▪
ng
a man an ass. Should have reported it if it had oc-
curred.

Re-examined—Saw Mr. Ramshay use a threatening
gesture, on the 29th, to a witness.
Mr. Thomas A. Humphries was a reporter. At-
tended a dinner given by Mr. Ramshay on the 29th of
September. (His report, which has been already
published, was then put in as evidence).
Cross-examined—There was no exultation or tri-
umph at the meeting, unless it was indicated by the re-
port. Was frequently at Mr. Ramshay's court. From
the time of Mr. Ramshay's return up to the date of the
memorial, had not observed anything wrong in the court.
Attended in Mr. Lowndes' time. The court was then
conducted as courts usually are. There were more
suitors now. Mr. Ramshay was always lenient and
kind to poor suitors. Had not witnessed outrage
against decency or propriety.
Re-examined—Had not been present more than
once when a fine was inflicted. Did not see a man
fined because he could not hear Mr. Ramshay.
Daniel M'Clennan was a reporter on the Liverpool
press. Was in the County Court on the 27th Sept.
last, and took notes. Remained there about two
hours. Was there on the 29th also. Mr. Ramshay
put a question to Hartley with reference to a handbill.
Hartley did not give a direct answer to the question.
His Honour turned to him and said " You ass, don't
you know that is what we legally call a fist?
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wilkins—Was
acquainted wish Mr. Whitty. Several reporters were
present when Mr. Ramshay used the expression.
Witness's report had been impugned. Wrote Har-
ding's system of shorthand. (The witness here pointed
out in his notes to the Learned Sergeant the passage
about the expression " ass.") Read his notes to Mr.
Thomas Bean, of the Liverpool Albion. Mr. Bean
supplied a report to the Times. Had been employed
on several occasions to report for the Times. Had
been sued in the County Court. Had a dispute with
Mr. Bean about the above transaction. Refused to
give up his notes unless Mr. Bean gave him 71. 17s. GI
This he got all but 2/. At witness's request, Mr.
Ramshay re-heard a fraud summons. The decision
was reversed.

Re-examined—Had no doubt Mr. Ramshay used the
word " ass" on the 29th. Had on many occasions
sent reports to the London papers.
L. M. Rogers said he arrived from the United
States on the 21st of September last. Was in the
County Court on the 29th, when Mr. Whitty's case
was under consideration. Heard Mr. Ramshay use
the word "ass." Mr. Ramshay leaned to the man
Hartley, the bailiff, and said—do you not know that
when a hand is closed it is a fist ?
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wilkins—Was
staying with Mr. Wilmer, of the Liverpool Chronicle.
Should stay here till spring. Was standing on the
right-hand side of the court when the expression was
used. Did not hear any one say, " Who stole the
jackass ?"—(A laugh)—but many uncivil things were
said. Knew Mr. Whitty.
Thomas Phillips—Was a reporter for the Liverpool
press, and was in the County Court on the 27th Sep-
tember. Saw a bill on the floor. Was there on the
29th. Saw the Judge make a gesture with his hand,
and he used the word " ass" to a witness. Was
confident he used the word. When Mr. John Whitty
was before Mr. Ramshay on the Wednesday, wit-
ness was there, and took notes.
Crosse-xamined by Mr. Sergeant Wilkins— Had
offered a copy of his short-hand notes to Mr. Ram-
shay. Had given his opinion that Mr. Ramshay
was a very able and competent judge, and that he had
been very ill-used on a former occasion. Mr. Ram-
shay spoke in au under tone when he called the man
an ass, but almost any person there could hear him.
Saw several reporters there—seven he should think.
The reporters were close to Mr. Ramshay. There
were loud cheers on the day when Sir George Stephen
talked of shooting a man through the head—at least
there was stamping on the froor. Had heard the same
excitement in an assize court at Liverpool when
Gleeson Wilson was ordered to be hung.—(A laugh.)
Mr. Justice Matteson was the judge. lie told the
officer to keep order, but he did not threaten to com-
mit any one. Never received a fee for suppressing a
report. A foreigner gave him half a-sovereign to take
a report. Did not tell him he was a reporter for the
lu I.

Re-examined—On the trial of the Chartists there
were manifestations, but Mr. Baron Alderson did not
commit any one.

Mr. Robertson Gladstone was then called, and
wished to make some explanation before he gave his
evidence.
Mr. Sergeant Wilkins, however, objected.
The witness said he had been threatened by Mr.
Ramshay ; his only object was to be protected.
Mr. Ellis said it would be in the discretion of the
witness whether he gave his evidence or not.
Mr. Gladstone then consented to give his evidence.
The witness said he had been Mayor of Liverpool in
1842 and 1843. Was in the County Court on the
29th September, for he was anxious to satisfy his
mind about the ,proceedings there. Mr. Ramshay
was, examining a witness when he went in. The
witness proceeded to say.----Mr. Ramshay was very
much excited, and apparently almost bursting with
passion. He was taking down the evidence, and as
he wrote he spoke aloud whilst he was writing.
While so engaged his mind seemed to revert to ano-
ther matter, and he said, "Let that man consider
himself to be in custody." This was said in a burst
of passion.
Hartley was afterwards examined. I remained till
after Mr. Whitty was committed, but I was absent
for a short time. Mr. Ramshay, in speaking to Joyce,
said something about blows, but the witness never
mentioned anything about blows. Mr. Jeffrey stood
close by me. Mr. Ramshay never appeared cool
once, but was always quite infuriated. He became
worse towards the close of the day. His eyes red-
dened, the expression of his countenance was
scarcely human, and he addressed Mr. Whitty in the
most insulting language. He told him htiswa s facern eaxt hibited the worst passions of his mind. I
ter of amazement to me how Mr. Whitty could stand
quietly by and hear such expressions. Mr. Ramshay
made frequent allusions to the powers invested in
him, and said he would lettlytheirapeople of Liverpool
kmnro.witwainhasthahye wwaosuludodt do.
of sound inPdress(i;nensata:Tt
upon the points of the dignity of the courtwas, that
powers invested in him. He desired the bailiff to
take into custody all who applauded. The bailiff
said every one applauded. Upon this Mr. Ramshay
told the bailiff that if he did not bring somebody
forward he would fine him (the bailiff ). Two per-
sons were brought forward and fined. Mr. Ramshay
said some respectable people had entered the court,
otherwise he would have ordered the doors to be
locked, and fined every one in the court.
Cross-examined
ambyin beldr.
on
nergeant
account
ofcots Wilkins—Had
. What
objected
witness had read was not in praise of Mr. Ramshay.
dhaint ttyu had
po a
called Mr. Ramshay a flunky
Read the Mercury, the Joru. Ramshay'srnal, an
dotohredrinLarwyemrpoodoel
papers. Did not know ju
of expression. Did not know
and an
an Mr.
at t
a Whiny
the housekeeper of the
Earl of Carlisle. Did not
know that Mr.Whitty had been in the habit of abusing
Mr. Ramshay, and had impugned the motives of
the Earl of Carlisle in appointing him. Did not know
what Mr. Ramshay said about blows. The first burst
of passion from Mr. Ramshay was when he addressed
the reporter of the Albion. Considered that on two
points, Mr. Ramshay was a monomaniac--first, as to
the dignity or sacredness of his own person; and,
secondly, as to the decorum necessary to be observed