The Sun.
London, England, 1834-03-12 00:00:00

TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE.

The honourable member said he had another petition to
present from certain inhabitants of the borough of
Wakefield, praying that the house would take measures
to investigate the conduct of the governor and affairs of the
gaol of that town, towards an individual who had been con-
victed and imprisoned for selling unstamped publications,
and praying for the reduction of the penalty which had
been imposed on him. The hon. member expressed a hope
that the taxes on knowledge would be speedily done away with.
Colonel WILLIAMS presented a petition from the borough
of Ashton-under-Lyne, praying for relief. They prayed for a
separation of the church from the state, and they alleged as
their reasons that human regulation ought to be confined
to secular affairs, and that civil governments had
no right whatever to dictate any form of worship ;
that the kingdom of God was not of that world, and that man
was accountable to God alone for his religious belief; that a
National Church Establishment was Anti-Christian, and that
the petitioners should not be compelled to support a system
which inflicted injury without conferring any benefit—
(Hear)—that the exaction of tithes in Ireland at the
point of the bayonet, and the increasing claims of the clergy
of England had,degraded both religion and its professed Mi-
nisters, and it should be put an end to. The petitioners stated
that 2,500 children were receiving the benefit of a religious
education, while the Established Church of the same district
had no such pretensions to put forward.
Mr. HARDY said it was quite unnecessary for the hon.
member to quote passages from Scripture in order to show
that the great founder of our religion did not approve of
church establishments connected with the State. They
were aware that, upon a solemn occasion—when he
had appeared before Pilot, he was charged with
with attempting to set up a temporal government against that
of Cmsar ; and when asked if such was his object, he replied,
that his kingdom was not of that world. But it never could
be inferred that he said that his religion could not be con-
nected with the kingdoms of this world ; for he had said that
" Kings should be a nursing father, and Queens a nursing
mother."

Mr. RUTHVEN, senior, thought that the scriptures ought
nokto be introduced in that house, but he had no objection to
a respectful allusion in the prayer of a petition. He thought
that the interests of religion had been much injured by con-
nection with temporal establishments.
Colonel WILLIAMS said that he would present one more
petition from the Independents of Aehton.under-Line. He
would not enter into the contents of it, but he should read the
last clause. In that the party dwelt upon their exclusion from
the English universities. He, as soon as the return of the uni.
versities could be obtained, should move for an address
to his Majesty to do away with the edict of James 1., which
excluded the dissenters from the benefit of an university educa.
tion.

Mr. LLOYD WATKINS presented a petition from the bap.
tists of Llangollen.
Mr. WILKS presented four petitions from Birmingham.
The hon. gentleman proceeded to make some remarks at length
upon the subject matter of the petitions. In Birmingham
there were thirty-two dissenting chapels, and only thirteen of
the protestant established church. There were '12,000 chil.
dren educated by the dissenters, and only 4,000 by the
church in that town.—(Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")
He had been instructed that the dissenters of Birmingham
during the last twenty years had raised by voluntary contribu-
tions, for the purpose of religious instruction and education,
not less than 450,0001., and that they were now paying for the
same purpose 35,0001. a year, thus affording splendid demon.
strations of their advance in religion and knowledge.—The
petitions, which were from New Hall-street Chapel, Graham-
street Chapel, Lombard street Chapel, and Oxford-street Cha-
pel, all in Birmingham, were ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. WILKS then presented a petition from the President,
Tutors, and Students of Horton College, in the county of
York, which, besides adverting to the general subjects of corn,.
plaint by Dissenters, complained of their improper exclusion
from the honours and emoluments of the two great Universities,
the whole of which, excepting in one or two instances,
they stated were national property, and, therefore,
that they ought to beopen to all classes of his Majesty's subjects.
—(Hear, hear.) It seemed to him extremely unjust that dis-
senters should be excluded from those establishments when
it was known that many of the school books used in them were
produced by protestant dissenters.--(Hear, hear, hear.) The
Reverend Dr. Walsh, who was a man of great literary
attainments, and who wrote some of those books, found
himself excluded from the honours of the Universities, but
Scotland valued his acquirements, and two of the Universities
of that country sent him diplomas. So also with Dr. Pye
Smith, whose books were used at Cambridge, and who was
unable to obtain that honour, which was readily granted him
by America. The hon. member related several instances of a
similar kind.

Mr. HARDY bore testimony to the great respectability of
the petitioners, and said if the petition had been forwarded to
him, he should have felt great pleasure in presenting it.
Mr. WILKS said he had sent a petition from dif-
ferent religious denominations of South Molton, in De.
vohshire. With regard to the petitions, of which he had
five or six to present from Devonshire, he must state
that the petitioners had intended to forward them to
their county members, but they felt themselves so much
disgusted (if he might use the term) at the bill which had
been introduced by the noble Paymaster of the Forces that
they refused to entrust that noble lord with them.
Mr" BULTEEL said that he had the greatest pleasure in
stating that the disgust alluded to by the hon. member was
by no means universal, and that a vast body of the Dissenters
in Devonshire were not only reasonable, but so much so as to
disarm all opposition, and to make him for one desirous to see
their grievances redressed. _ _

WILKS presented similar petitions from Peterafield
(Hants), Whitehall Heath (Worcestershire), Alvechurch and
Kingsnorton (Worcestershire), Whitechurch (Shropshire),
City of Lichfield and from a Chapel in Henrietta-street,
Brunswick-square.

Mr. BAINES said he had a number of petitions to present
from the Protestant Dissenters of different places, all of them
complaining of the grievances under which they laboured ;
and though there was no prayer in the petitions upon the
subject of the separation of church and state, yet he knew
that for the most part they had a strong objection to it. They
were not, as suggested by an hon. member, afraid to avow that
they did not approve of the connection, but at the same time
they did not make it a part of their complaints, as it could
not be fairly said to arise from the grievances they laboured
under. They claimed an equal participation of civil privileges
with the rest of their fellow subjects, and would never be satis-
fied till a full participation was granted them. He begged leave
to state one very important fact, that one congregation in Leeds
had, within the last ten years, contributed not less than
13,0001. for the support of their own religion. This was a
proof that they had no disposition to participate in the revenues
of the church, or to shrink from any obligations for the purpose
of supporting their own religion. The hon. member then pre-
sented petitions from a dissenting chapel in Queen-street,
Leeds ; from a baptist congregation in Lockwood, near Hud.
dersfield ; from Milford, in Yorkshire; from Holme, in Lan:
cashire ; from Haresley, in Lancashire; from Barnard, in
Yorkshire ; from Ebenezer chapel, in Bewdley ; and from
in Dorsetshire ; all praying for redress of grievances.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from the Protes.
tant Dissenters of Pendlebury, in the county of Lancaster,
praying for relief from the disabilities at present affecting
them.

Mr. HALL presented a petition from the ratepayers of
Marylebone (Middlesex), complaining of the pressure of the
sewer rates. •

REPEAL--TITHES--REFORM,

Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the apothecaries
of Galway, which was referred to the Committee on Medical
Abuses; from Ballymore Eustace, and Hollywood, the Catholic
Union of Tagmon (Wexford), Blackditches, and other places,
praying for a repeal of the union ; also a petition from the
Presbyterians of the Grange of Kildalla, and the liber-
ties of Coleraine, praying for the total abolition of
tithes ; and one to the same effect from the Catho.

lie Union of Tagmon, Also, one from Donaghadee, in
the county Down to the same effect. A petition from West
Auckland, praying for an extension of the Reform Bill. A pe-
tition from the operative coopers of Dublin fora repeal of the
union. A petition from the parish of Tamoline (Wexford) in
favour of repeal; from the landholders of Kilrush, in Wex.
ford, for the abolition of tithes; and also one from the gold and
silversmiths of Dublin, praying ior the repeal of the unioh.
The hon. member also presented a petition frinn St. Mary, New
Ross, Wexford, for the repeal of the Union ; also a petition
from Longwood in the county of Meath, of a similar nature,
and similar petitions from parishes in Down and Wexford. in
moving that the petitions should lie on the table, the hon member
stated that the females of Dublin had requested to be allowed
to put their names to the petition, such was the feeling that
existed upon the subject.
Mr. P. SCROPE said that, with reference to the signatures
of the females of Dublin, he wished to call the attention of the
house to a letter he had received from Dr. White, the physi.
cian to the Leek hospital, drawing a most dreadful picture of
the state of many of the females in that city. The honour-
able member proceeded to read the letter, which gave a most
deplorable statement of the dreadful and forlorn condition of
many of the females of Dublin. He would ask the house,
after such a statement, if it could be believed that such misery
could exist in a civilized country, or under a civilized Govern-
ment ?—(Hear.).
Mr. O'CONNELL bore testimony to the respectability of
the gentleman from whom the letter came. The statement
was not in the least exaggerated, for every part of it was per-
fectly true. In one parish containing 5,000 inhabitants, he
was assured by a gentleman of respectability that there was
only one blanket for every four individuals. Formerly
there was more than a million of money spent annu.
ally in Dublin. When the Parliament had sat there
no city in the world supported so many or such extensive cha-
rities as Dublin, and he thoughtthat they were justified,in such
a state of things, in asking for leave to legislate for themselves.
There should be some enactments for preventing persons with
large properties, spending it year after year in other countries.
He thought that poor laws would not effectually relieve thedis-
tress existing in Ireland, as they had in England complaints on
all sides of the operation of the poor laws.
Mr. LAMBERT admitted that very great distress did exist
in Ireland, but he differed with the hon. and learned member
for Dublin iri his position, that the repeal of the union would
do away with that distress. All the Irish people wanted was
employment, and as to absenteeism, he asserted that the agita-
tion of a certain party had banished all those of the great
landed proprietors who were not the supporters of that party.
Mr. RUTHVEN asked whether it was, after thirtysthree
years, that the people of England should be compelled to trust
still longer to a foreign legislature. The Irish Parliament
was one of a faction. It was not fair to refer to the proceed.
ings of that 'Parliament, because it was under the con-
trol of an ascendant party.—(Hear, hear.) He was against
the introduction of poor laws into Ireland. Absenteeism was
the great evil of Ireland—it ought to be visited with some
heavy penalty, in the hope to correct it.