The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-11 00:00:00

words on the question of the liability of English ender
writers. He could undertake to state that those persons
were not liable whether the policies were effected before or
after the embargo. In a case which arose out of the
Swedish embargo, it was decided that it was impo-sible
for an English subject to enter into a contract, which
would have the effect of throwing upon a subject of his
Majesty the loss which ought to be borne by a foreign
subject. In reply to what the Hon. Member who spoke
last had said respecting the sympathy which he felt for
Holland, he must be allowed to observe, that when Hol-
land attracted the sympathy of this country in former
times her conduct was very different from that which she
was at present pursuing. She was then at the head of
freedom, exerting herself against tyranny; but now she
had placed herself under 'governments which supported
legitimacy.—(Cheers frtm the Oppositioe.) He spoke
of legitimacy in the sense in which it was used by the
Holy Alliance, wtoich desired to put down liberal institu •
titans all over the world.—(Hear, hear, from the same
quarters.) The King of Holland was exerting himself to
bring those whom he called his devoted subjects again
under 'his dominion, and under those circumstances he did
not merit the sympathy of Englishmen.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BARING said that the sentiments uttered by the
lion. and Learned Gentleman were quite novel, and had,
he supposed, been specially reserved for the reformed
House of Commons. It was singularly incongruous to
hear a law officer of the Crown denounce an attachment to
legitimacy, and to hold it up as an excuse for persecution,
for so he must designate the treatment which the King of
Holland had experienced.—(Hear.) If he might venture
to offer advice to one who sold advice to all the world—
(A laugh)--he would recommend the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman to confine himself in future to questions of
law, and not to hazard such extraordinary esAnions on
policy and morality. Such doctrine would not have been
uttered in that House fifteen years ago, when constitu-
tional principles were quite as well understood as at the
present moment, without being visited with eeverts 'repre-
hension. He wished to know what great political object
was to be obtained by persecuting the poor King of Hol-
land ? What, he might be permitted to ask, were the
duties of a Foreign Secretary ? First, to be the guardian
of the honour of the country, and next, without allowing
birnael.'s to be entangled with protocols, to protect the com-
merce of the country. The .Noble Lord (Palmerston)
thighs smile at being thus lectured upon the discharge of
the functions of his situation, but he (Mr. Baring)
would nevertheless venture to repeat that the Noble
Lord's two leading duties were the guardianship of the
honour and of the commerce of the country. If he looked
only to the direct injury our commerce had received, he
saw but little of the disadvantage. To show that the
pending negotiations were not so harmless, he would read
extracts from letters from two of the great shipping ports
of America, and, if necessary, be was reedy to produce
the originals. The first was from Mobile, and it was
dated the 13th February last. It stated that English ships
were there fast accumulating, but that they found in-
creased difficulty in getting cargoes, as American vessels
were able to carry cotton to Europe at a freight by 121
per cent. less than could be taken by English vessels ;
hence, it was clear that nearly all the trade in cotton was
carried on in American bottoms. A second letter from
the same port, dated 21st February, mentioned that freights
were still heavy at the depreciation before mentioned, and
that the people were unwilling to venture their property
in British vessels, From New Orleans, under date of
the 10th January, much the same statements were made,
and at that date all the insurance companies had raised
their premium upon properto shippedo;ts--lae4s:st- eessolts
which put shipment.. kiy 'them out of the question.
Thor were actual hommercial letters, proving beyond
dispute that di:: unsettled state of affairs in Europe
most materKty affected the commercial interests of
this corsatry. It appeared further that the difference
on Ile rate of insurance upon American and upon
Peritish vessels was 1 per cent.-11 per cent. being charged
for the former, and 21 for the latter; and that although the
owners of British vessels had lowered their freights from
16 to 19 per cent. they could obtain no cargoes. No
doubt other branches of commerce were as importantly in-
jured as the cotton trade. The effect of the pending nego-
tiations was felt in the Mediterranean, in the Brazils, and
in every port of the Pacific Ocean; and it might be said
that the deterioration of the British flag extended to nearly
all the quarters of the globe. If there were anything to
rejoice at in the state of modern Europe and of modern
feeling, it was that the Dutch, essentially a commercial
people, had made these great sacrifices to principle ; and
he, fur one, could not withhold from them his sincere ad-
miration. Such was the practical injury of which all
engaged in commerce had a right to complain ; and al-
though the Noble Lord had not stated them, there might
be some great political views which humble merchants
could not understand, and which prevented the arrange-
ment of existing differences. The Noble Lord had said, that
if people would but read all his protocols, they would see
how ably he bad conducted this matter. He (Mr. Baring)
could not assert that he had read every word, but he had
skimmed them, and indeed read as long as he could keep
his eyes open, but even the Noble Lord's pen could not
enliven so dull a subject.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Having done so, he must unfeignedly admit that
he was at a loss to know what the Noble Lord
was driving at. He could understand, indeed, that
Ministers had taken up the cause of their new protege,
the King of Belgium, and that they wished everything to
submit to him—that he should dictate all treaties of peace,
and frame them according to the extent and nature of his
wishes ; but if he were called upon to state what Engl nd
and Holland were really differing about, he should find
himself totally at a loss upon the subject. He wished,
therefore, that the Noble Lord had condewended upon
mine explanations of the kind. As far as he (Mr. Baring)
could make out, the King of Holland complained that the
five arbitrators were reduced to two—that the negotiations
began under the mediation of Austria, Russia, Prussia,
Great Britain, and Frauce, but that the three first Powers
had retired from the trust. " When (said the King of
Holland) you put yourselves again in the same position to
undertake this mediation, I am ready to submit to it ; but
the three Powers most friendly to me, and who are at-
teasked by the King of Great Britain's Solicitor-General
for being friendly to me, have seceded."__( Hear.) " Aye
(replied the Noble Lord) but France and England are
united ; they are powerful and you are weak ; they must
command and you must submit." Such was in effect the
language of the Noble Lord to Holland; and he knew
that that State was only resisting the measures of coercion
which France and England would dictate. For his own
part he was certainly friendly to an alliance with France ;
but bethought that England had permitted France to lead
her too much out of her direct course ; and it almost ap-
peared as 'hough France had adopted the policy of endea-
vouring to embroil Enland with friendly Powers, in order
to give additional weight to her own influence.—(Hear,
bear.) The Noble Lord had said that advantage was
attempted to be taken of the exemption in favour
of vessels carrying perishable commodities. He remem-
bered perfectly a circumstance of a vessel which was per-
mitted to land its cargo of iron at Cardiff. Upon ques-
tions of international law he had frequently had occasion
to differ from the Noble Lord ; but to his opinion on
legal matters be was disposed to pay great respect. Never-
theless, he could not help expressing surprise at the doc-
trines which the Noble Lord had promulgated with regard
to insurances.
Sir JOHN CAMPBELL rose to explain. He wished
to distinguish between that legitimacy which it was pro-
per to uphold, and that legitimacy which, if scrupulously
followed, would have justified James 11. in continuing
upon the throne of England, and would call upon us now
to regard the Duke of Modena as our Sovereign instead of
William IV., to whom they had sworn allegiance.
Lord J. RUSSELL, with reference to what bad fallen
from his Hon. and Learned Friend his Majesty's Solicitor-
General, must concur with him that there was a very
strong difference which prevented the comparison be-
tween William 111. and the present Sovereign of Holland.
He agreed that the same principle which would induce
persons to support the present King of the Netherlands
would have induced them to support James the Second
instead of King William the Third. The Hon. Mem-
ber for Essex had taunted his Majesty's Ministers with
the number of their protocols, and he had been rather
elaborate and severe upon their protracted negotiations and
voluminous correspondence; but when the Hon. Gentleman
felt disposed to indulge in such a vein he would do well to
consider that the interference of his Majesty's Ministers
was not of their own seeking, and that the negotiations
had been begun by their predecessors in office. When Lis
Noble Friend had taken the Seals he did not desire any
such conference, but he found that one had already been
appointed, and
.that it was no longer possible to avoid it.
The embargo was the natural, and indeed, the unavoidable
result of such a state of things; and the only question for
the House now to determine was, whether it would say
that the Crown was unfit to undertake the negotiation,
and that, therefore, the House would take the case in its
own hands, and under its especial management. The
question for Ministers had not been relative to the em.
bargo, but how they could preserve peace ; nor had Hon.
Gentlemen opposite shown that, in order to preserve
that peace, any course could have been pursued better than
--- thOVehtt..._/1.-bad been adopted. At one period the Hon.
- Me fiir' Essex bad said that his Majesty's Ministers
would perform a masterpiece of policy if, under the circum-
s.. stances of the negotiation, they could preserve peace for
; even one twelve months, When the King of the Nether-