The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-05 00:00:00

TUE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESPAY,,ESRNING MARCH. 5 1856.

the preelteesion, and that that fact was a source of much
e<-d. But it had also been said that the officer who pure
efshased his commission served almost' for milling, as his
-pay was little more than interest for his m ney. That was
the evidence of the Duke of Wellington, who said that
three-fourths of the British officers had little more reward
than the honour of serving. Now it seemed to him (Lord
Goderich) anything but sound policy that our officers
should serve ter nothing, because under Bach& system each
officer acquired a vested interest which you could neither
deny nor reject, and which was sure to be urged when any
innovating alteration was proposed. He could show that be
had not gratuitously inferred the possibility of this dan-
ger, for he held in his hand a document with the appear-
ance of which many members of that house were no donbt
familiar—he meant the memorial of the Brigade of Guards.
Ho was not about to enter into the prayer of that me-
morial, although, in his opinion, the course pursued by
the Government in the matter was justifiable, but to
use it as showing that this claim of vested rights
had already been put fo ward. (The noble lord here read an
extract from the memorial, in which the memorialistsurgecl
their vested rights by purchase of captaincies in the Guards
to colonelcies before the officers of the line, and complained
that the Government warrant involved a breach of faith.)
Now what ho asserted was that in no other army would
officers be found asserting a breach of faith under such
circumstances. He thought that in thus giving your
officers a pecuniary interest in their commissions you put
yourself in reference to them in amostundestrablepoeition,
and which might lead to very serious consequences. Be-
sides, the house should recollect that the system of purchase
involved no saving to the country, the pay being the same,
purchase or no purchase. Purchase was also a bar to im-
provement in the army, as it precluded the necessity of
education to a certain extent, so that the introduction of
a sound system of military education would, he be-
lieved, be now a very critical experiment. That the pre-
snit system was defective was proved by the evidence of
Sir Howard Douglas, who had deposed before a committee
of that house that the standard of education for our young
officers was mischievously low, and that the examination
was ridiculously trivial. He had, therefore, the authority
of a distinguished general for saying that the educational
standard in the army was deficient ; and surely, in the
present age, it was of peculiar importance to pay attention
to those questions of military education. If we looked at
foreign countries we found that many were making great
strides ; and at home we should recollect what rapid pro-
grass was being made with the general education of the
people. At a time when the education of those classes of
the people from which private soldiers were chosen was so
rapidly advancing, it would not do to have those who com-
manded them their inferiors in general knowledge. (Hear.)
Other countries were not so backward in this matter as
we were. In 1854 the King of Prussia issued an ordi-
nance, the preamble of which gave as a reason for a supe-
rior education of the officers the great spread and advance
of education in the great bedy-of the people. The hon.
Under-Secretary of War seemed to think that if they abo-
lished purchase in the army there was no alternative but
seniority ; but he could assure him that those who advo-
tested the abolition had no notion of substituting a pure
seniority. The present system gave Us generals of 70 and
captains of 18 ; but it might be changed so as to give us
commanders in the vigour of their age. There was one
argument in favour of purchase, and which, he believed,
was the favourite one at the Horse Guards, namely, that
everything should be done to prevent poor men becoming
officers in the army. :Before the committee the hon. member
who was supposed to represent the HOrse Guards asked
many questions to show that the army was not fit for a
poor man. On that point the opinion of Sir H. Douglas
was, that the difficulty of living in the army for men of
limited means was no reason why they should be excluded,
if qualified, or whythe country should he deprived of their
talents ; and that gallant officer asked if that rale were to
prevail how would it be with the private soldiers who were
working their way to commissions, under the pledge given
at their enlistment, and who must be still more destitute ?
Sir H. Douglas distinctly stated that it would be unjust to
adopt any system which would exclude officers or privates
from their fair chance of promotion. The noble lord at the
head of the Government had held out hopes that the system
adopted by the right hon. member for Wilts (Mr. S. Her-
bert), when in the War-office, would be centinuecl ; but he
regretted to say that since that right hen. gentleman left
the Government, much less had been done in that direction
than before. He believed the system of: purchase inter-
fered materially with recruiting for the army, and nar-
rowed the circle from whence recruits could bo drawn. It
was complained that the class of men who enlisted was not
generally that from whom officers could be selected, and
yet those who made that complaint advocated a system
which prevented men of a superior class entering the army.
To show the necessity of some improvement in the rela-
tions between the officers and men, and in the qualification
of the subalterns, the noble lordreferred to a memorandum
of the late Duke of Wellington, in which he stated that
the duty of the subaltern officer was generally poi formed
by the sergeants, and that the captain, however gallant in
the field, etas seldom able to discipline his company, but
was obliged to rely oa the non-commissioned officers.
In the French army one third of the sub-lieutenancies
worn nominated by the commanders of the regiments,
and two-thirds were selected from the students of the mili-
tary schools; and the promotion to the higher ranks wont
one-half by seniority, and the other half by selection. In
the Sardinian army, which had been reorganised by Gen.
Ifaruiora subsequent to the war with Austria in 1848, no
person could be admitted to the rank of officer unless he had
served two years as a non-comtuissioued officer, or had
passed an examination. One-third of the sub-lieutenancies
were given upon the nomination of the commanding officers
and after that the promotions proceeded upon the rule of
one-third by choice and two thirds byeseniority—all ranks,
however, having to undergo a rigid examination. In Russia
no man could enter the army as an officer unless he had
been a cadet for a certain time in a militaryschosl,of which
there was one attached to the head-quarters of every regi-
ment, and passed an examination. It had been urged by
the advocates of the system of purchase that those who
would abolish it desired to confiscate the property of those
officers who had bought their commissions. But the ho-
nourable and gallant general had shown that the whole
value of the commissions in the army was under 8,000,000/.
lie (Lord Goderich) calculated it at 7,000,000/. and a few
thousands ; but from that must be deducted the value of
the commissions which had been given without purchase,
and which might be taken at two millions, which would
reduce the value sc the bought cernmissions to something
between five and six million,. That would he the whole
amount involved ; and that, or even the whole eight mil-
lions, the coup try.would surely not grudge for the benefit
which it would derive from the establishment of a system
that would provide at all times a sufficient body of well-
qualified officers for the army. Tho hon. Under Secretary
(Kr. Peel) had more than once taunted those who brought
forward propositions like that now under consideration
with having suggested no substitute for the system they
would abolish. lie would suggest a system which should
combine seniority and merit, a system similar to that
which prevailed in the Sardinian army, and which should
ensure that every commissioned officer who entered
the army should be well educated and fitted for his duties,
which shnuld ensure to him a fair chance of promotion,
and should encourage instead of discourage study. The
noble lord (Palmerston), when a motion was brought for-
ward on this subject on a former occasion, asked, " What
is merit ?" and rep'ying to his own question said, "Merit
is the opinion which ono anon may form of anether, an
opinion which is sure to be disputed by many o hers, and
denied by every unsuccessful candidate." He differed from
the noble lord. He believed that merit was not opinion,
but fact. (Hear.) In promoting for merit it was not ex-
pected that the minister who promoted was to please every-
body—that was impossible; but what was required was that
those in whose hands the selection rested, beim- men of
ability and merit themselves, should appoint the fittest
and best qualified men they could find in every public
situation. If that principle were pursued honesty
and fairly by the Government, though they might be
subjected to the anger of disappointed mediocrity,
they would be supported by the voice of the coun-
try generally. After referring to the defects of our
military system as exhibited in the proceedings of the pre-
sent war, he observed that the smallness of our army made
it the more necessary to counter balance the paucity of
numbers by greater efficiency in all ranks. To maintain
that equably with the great military nations of Europe
which we asserted, we must lay to heart and profit by the
teams which the war had taught Us ; we must make our
army efficient, and for that purpose we must above all
things provide a holy of officers not only ready to face any
danger that the cell of duty might place before them, but
officers thoroughly Akins:lto(' and trained to the profession,
and devoted to it heart and soul, which they could only
do by making merit the only. path to promotion and
honour.

Mr. ELLICE (Coventry) hoped the house would be
cautious in taking any step upon this question, at the
same time that he thought they ought not to recuwa the in-
quiry, eonsidering.the feeling that was abroad upon this
subject. The money part of the question was the least
part of the difficulty ; for if the nation were once fully
satisfied that the abolition of the system of purchase was
injurious, they would not grudge any amount of money
that might be required to abolish it.

Sir J. FITZGERALD supported the existing system.
Mr. PEEL said that however much the consideration
for and against the proposal cede for the abolition of pur-
chase in the army appeared to be balanced in the mind of
the hon: member (Mr. Ellice), ho had admitted tho ques-
was ono on which much might be said on both sides, and
it was because he was of opinion that much might be said
against the present proposal, he trusted the house would
give kim a bearing. It appeared to him that the gallant
general who had moved for the committee Lad made one
suggestion which he (Mr. Peel) thought was hardly worthy
of him, and that was his appeal to a right hon. gentle-
man who was not in the house, and to his party, to
give him their support, on the ground that it might be
beneficial to them at a future election ; but he (Mr.
Peel) hal no doubt that this question would be discus of
and disposed of without any regard to such selfish and in-
dividual considerations, and accordieg to their sober view
and judgment of what was best both for the public interests
of the country and the army also. He did not mean to
urge that the system of purchase in the army was a system
which, in theory, could be regarded as free from objec-
tion. He admitted that if a new corps were to be esta-
blished the system of purchase would form no part of its
arrangement, but that its regimental appointments would
he like these of the Land Transport Corps without pur-
chase, and when called upon to resign they would have to
do so without receiving an equivalent. (Hear.) And if
the army could be disbanded to-day and reorganised to-
morrow, no doubt it would make its reappearance without
the aid of the purchase system. (Hear, hear.) It must,
however, be borne in mind that the army had now been
established for 15t) years, and the purchase system had been
co-existent with it, nisei ho did not believe that such
a system could have existed so long without having to
a considerable extent causel the service generally to ac-
commolate itself to its existence, so as not to be so easily
eisplaced as some gentlemen imagined; and, furthermore,
that it could not have existed for so long a time without
bringing to light certain advantages that would be found
more than sufficient to counterbalance any disadvantages
or drawbacks that had been alleged against it. Those who
came forward with a desire to upset the present se stern
ought to be able to prove, first, that there were evils in it,
and next, to he able to submit to the consideration of the
house and country a remedy as plausible and prima facie
acceptatle as would justify it being submitted to the consi-
deration of a committee of that house. The noble lord who
seconded the motion had endeavoured to show that the pre-
sent system was injurious to those officers of the army who
purchased their commitxions, and that they were in no
better position than those' who were deprived of the inte-
rest of money with which to invest in such commission.
That undoubtedly was the case for a man who entered the
army with a desire of becoming as speedily us possible a
colonel, er a general officer, and thereby obtain responsibi-
lity greater and quicker than he could obtain in private
life, or follow iug any of the civil professions of the country,
but it was not so with regard to purchasers generally. The
beartburnings and disappointments that were spoken of as
cxisting now would exist under the system proposed, from
persons being passed over the heads of others, on account of
the officer so passed over feelin jealous at his talents and

awl; --

ability beitt interior to the ofticei
But tne question was, whether or not the system of pur-
chase now adopted was moreadvantagonus for promotion to
those who purchased than to those who did not purchase.
He contended that this fwetem honalited
the actrensteeheetue: ee-eause esesen a corniniseloh
exthatif„chi hands, and another succeeded to it, the officer
who went out, went out probably at the top of the list,
whilst the officer coming in, instead of stepping into
the shows of the retiri effiees, !led tss no *0 the Isot mat
>f the Its% 6liu 6oniequently that pushed every officer
above him, including the non-purchasing officer, on a step.
Fie did nut think that by abolishing the present system
that any advantage would he sallied; tat vaddld they eitericse
the alms of Men Who composed the officers of the line. He
thought it an advantage to the army that gentlemanly tone
of feeling which was given to it by the commission being
filled by members of the arietocz acy and the wealthy classes
of the country—(hear, hear)—and in proof of this asser-
tion, that were they to abolish promotion by purchase the
commissions in the army would continue to be held mostly
by the same class as at present, he referred to the Ord-
nance Corps, where promotion was by seniority and merit.
(Hear, hear.) An hon. gentleman had said that the mem-
bers of the Ordnance Corps were a better military educated
class of men than most of the line, which probably was the
case, and which arose from the education necessary they
should possess in order that they might pass their exenii-
nationsprevious to obtaining theirappeintments, and which
he considered entailed as much expense upon the officers
of that corps as did the purchase of a commission in the
line. (Hear.) Complaints had been made that the Go-
vernment had not carried out the suggestions of the right
hon. gentleman the member for Wiltshire, with reference
to the management of the army. Hail the noble lord who
made that complaint examined the estimates that had been
laid upon the table he would have seen that the expense of
outfits had been included in them for the promotion of 150
non-commissioned officers in the line during the year 18575,
in addition to those in the Artillery, the Land Transport
Corps, and the Turkish Contingent, at present in the p sy
of this country. The noble lord had also considered that
a certain amount of military education should be necessary
before a gentleman should be allowed to purchase a com-
mission. At present that was provided against as much as
possible, because no ono could become a captain until after
two years' service, or a field officer until after six years'
service, and which was so arbitrarily acted up to that in
no case was it allowed'to be sot aside. Hon. gentlemen
had spoken a great deal on the new method of promotion
which they recommended, but the most important ques-
tion for consideration was what was to be the system for
retirement. The army was different from other profes-
sions. It was not a profession into which any person could
enter, but it was a close profession, into which sne man
could not enter until another hail retired, so that retire-
ment was the means of outlet, and which had to be pro-
vided for. He thought the most important part of the
question was the systele of retirement. In the Ordnance
Corps the system of promotion was by seniority, and al-
thoegh the effect of a long peace was to encumber the
ranks with a large number of old officers, a state of war
soon brought about a different result. At the breaking out
of the French war the number of men in the artillery was
9,000, and the off 'ors were old into ; during the course
of that war the number had been raised to 26,000 men, a
number of new appointments wore given away, and to-
wards the close of the war the age of the lieut.-colonels did
not average more than forty years. When the Ordnance
Corps was reduced, when the *Mears were placed on half-
pay, when it was necessary. by the system of promotion to
bring in men from half-pay, the result was, as was stated
by the commission of 1340, that the officers were nearly
superannuated. To get rid of those old officers the retired
list was instituted, and what was the result ? The number
of the army was about 200,00) men, thst of the Ordnance
corps 20,000. The retired full-pay list of the Ordnance
corps amouuted to eight times as much as that of the whole
of the remainder of the army. If the system of purchase
were done away with it would be necessary to have a full-
pay retired list for the infantry of the line at a cost of not
less thee half a million a•year. Then, again, if an infantry
officer desired to return after a few years' service, he did
ee by the sale of his commission, without any expense tai
the country ; while, in many cases, an artillery officer had
to receive permission to retire on half-pay after only six
or seven years' service. He be:ieved that some miscon-
ception existed with regard to the system of aurchese its
the army. It was, in reality, coatiaed to a much
more limited extent than was generally suppose-I, and did
n materially affect the advatieeinent of deserving officers
to posiiieris of trust and responsibility. Up to the rank of
captain regimental commissions might be obtainalebut
beyond that rank the system of purchase might be practi-
cally disregarded ie rater ling further esievauceneent, while
beyond the rank of lieutereent•colonel purchase did not
exist. Then on the staff appointments were givers for no
money consideration whatever ; they were given upon
grounds of merit. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter.)
There were three systems of promotion—viz., by pui chase,
by seniority, and by distinction. He cert duly did net
give the preference to promotion by seniority ; he knew
the effect th it it wo .tad have on the line. There would be
efficers 20 years older thou they were then, wore the system
of purehate euolielled ; and he believe 1 that when officers
arrived at the rank of colonels they would have an average
of 45 years to show. He would venture to say, with refe-
rence to eta-if appointments, that he did not think that,
during th> two ~ears the army had been in the Crimea
the Horse Guards had filled up a single staff appointment
by favour. He thought the advantages of the system of
purchase more than counterbalanced the disadvantages ;
the money value of cieminissions amounted to between 7
and 3 millions, and lie should consider it a wasteful ex-
penditure of the public money to apply this large amount
to abolishing a system which, in his opinion, would be re•
placed by something inferior. He thought the nature of
the purchase of a commission had not been clearly kept in
view ; it was in point of fact nothing more than an invest-
ment made when an officer entered the service, and which
he withdrew when he quitted that service ; it was merely a
species of caution money. There had been a large increase
in the numberof conamissionsgranted without purchase since
the commencement of the nreeent war, in consequence of 50
regiments having been placed on the war establishment,
and because, in all the newly-organised corps, the system
of purchase had not been recognised. As a consequence,
when those corps were reduced, the officers would be
obliged to retire without affecting officers whose commis-
sions had been pnrchssed. The noble lord who seconded
the motion had stated that the system of purchase lied
broken down. He (lir. F. Peel) could assure him this was
not the case—they had had morn applications for commis-
sions since the war broke out than they heel vacancies to
till up. There was not a single commission by purchase
which was not filled up. He did not think, therefore,
that the house ehonlil adopt the proposition of the hon.
and gallant general for an inquiry into that question.
Lord STANLEY supported the propriety of instituting
an inquiry. The feelings of the public were in favour of s
complete reform in all matters connected with the army.
If that occasion, when the glory and distresses of the late
war-were fresh in the memory of all, was allowed to pass
the events in the Crimea would be quoted as precedeets
for the future, as those of the Peninsular war had been,
and would be given as reasons for maintaining the system
intact. Whet was the testimony of all other nations with
respect to the system of purchase in the army ? Was there
a Biagio civilised country in the world in which it was
practised ? Not oue. There was a kindred abuse in thi

country, viz., the system of purchasing livings in the
Church, which unfortunately doubt not be so easily dealt
with as the army abuse, because the presentations were
mostly in private families. The system of purchase in the
army was condemned by the example of the civil service,
and by that. of the navy. It was essentially an anomaly, e
departure from that rule which wes acknowledged to b.
binding in every other 6.83, that entrance to promotion in
the public service should be contingen‘ on ability aue
merit. He could only remember one parallel case th it bait
existed in France before the Revolution, when judicial
offices were disposed of on the purchase system. He die
think that the evils which seemed to be apprehended on
change of this system would take place. With respect
to the difficulty of getting rid of old officers, to which
the honourable gentleman the Under Secretary for
' War had alluded, he (Lord Stanley) could not see
a,ey m fro difficulty than of disposing of old servants in
the civil ,ereice ? 'Was not the system of superannuation
applie ,ble to the army ? There was a system adopted ie
some of the continental armies which very effectively put
a stop to the active lists being occupied by veterans. If an
officer did not obtain a certain military rank by a certain
age, he was not eligible to fill that rank of retaining tne
gra ie which he occupied, but his eh trice of promo ion was
ended. Thu rule might appear a little harsh, but if there
must be a choice made between two systems, it was better
to take that which operated fairly betweeti lean and titan
than to continue one that based promotion on the most
unsuitable and most invidious of all grounds, that of per
sonal wealth. The army might be efficieut, but that was
no reason why it should not be reformed ; the game argu-
ment was used in every similar case; it has been used in
relation to university reform and to law reform, still both
those reforrus were carried. If they were to take the
opinion of the working of the army, of the men who had
had the best opportunity of judging of what were the re-
qeirements of the service, ho believed that they would
unite with the general pubic in condemning the system
of purchase as an excrescence on the military of the coun-
try which ought to be got rid of. He firmly believed that
if a committee of inquiry were appointed, and the opinion
of the ablest officers taken and acted on, that in five years
the purchase system would cease to exist.

Mr. RICH would support the motion of the hon. and
gallant general. He thought a system which had been re-
pudiated by all foreign nations, and by ourselves in every
other case, could not require much argument to be proved
unsound.

Colonel LINDSAY complained that the supporters of
the motion had offered no practical substitute for the sys-
tem of purchase, consistent with the efficiency of the army.
He h 1(1 that the present system led to officers obtaining
field rank more rapidly, and also that it prevented jobbery
or obtaining promotion by interest. As to promotion from
the ranks, he was much in favour of it, but he believed it
was nut very popular with the non-commissioned officers;
and the reason was plain—that the pay was not sufficient
for their support. He would oppose the motion, because
he was satisfied that the present system gave physical effi-
ciency, and with proper precaution, he thought, it would
secure mental efficiency, too.
FIEADL.I,II.I referred to the promise made by the
Government last year, that officers should have the option
of leaving their families the value of their commission, if
they fell in action, or the usual pension. For a long time
this promise was not kept at all, and now that something,'
had been done, the regulations required the families of
officers, before they could take advantage of them, to go
through a process so humiliating that hundreds would
rather want the boon altogether,

Colonel NORTH also complained of tho regulations of
the warrant, which he considered little better than a de-
lusion upon the officers.

Mr. M. MUSES was favourable to inquiry ; but he
did not think a committee of this house. was the proper
tribunal. He would suggest, as a preferable alternative,
that a commission composed
.of
.civil and military men
should be appointed for the purpose. He did not believe
that the.abolition of purchase would make the stray less
aristocratic than at present, except that it would exclude
a number of young men who at preeut entered the army
without any view to a professi6n. But the same result, he
believed, would be effected by a strict system of exami-
flat i

Colonel S. ADAII was also in favour of the principle of
the motion, though he preferred a commission rather than
a select committee.

Mr. S. HERBERT said he felt the difficulties of this
question not less than the hon. member for Coventry, pro-
bably from the same reason, that he bad much connection
with the question. (Hear.) One benefit of iricriry would
be to remove some delusions from the public mind, one of
which was that an officer of wealth had nothing to do but
purchase his way. The fact was that an officer did not
rise slower because be could_ not purchase, though an officer
who was able to Purchasa row.; more quickly. Be would tat e
the three senior captains of a regiment, whom he would
call Captains Brown, Snlith,- and Johnson. (A laugh.)
One might ha able to purchase, and the others uot. He did
so ; but, the result was not worse for those who could. not
—their promotion was not, the slower. If they did away

•~
1

L. 4 4.

, painely the evil. The question
would still remain, •a! is'fre'ere. Confil pot purchase ahouhl
their preferment be provided T.t was said that by
abolishing purchase they would alter the clods from which
their regiments were officered. He did not thief* this
Woe,: Int!per, :end be,sbouhl be serry to see it happefi, Ln
a country like this, where; Irlatftestione were so fi ee, no Ina
centives to obedience could be spared ; toed the men who
were generally selected from the peasantry obeyed more
rep lily an officer whom they looked upon as a patio:am.
In the navy Liters sea ne perch tee, but the officers of the
navy worn of the same clasg ne .Qnairs of the army—there
might, perhaps, be more sons of pets In `vide cavalry than
•in other regiments. A system of selection grows up in the
navy whereby inns were selected from the top while seni-
ority prevailed at the bottom, But there were important
differences between the army and tlr. navy. The latter
was not only a fighting but a navigating b ; and it was
the same ib pease as in war. The case was totally dif-
ferent with the army, therefore the analogy slid not bold.
Looking at the necessity of the system of purchase, or
something in lieu of it, and adinittitig the great inconve-
nience
of ntrodueinte a class of men who never gave their
minds to the profession, ho very much masted whether a
man ought to become a captain by purchase." Seeing the
large sums which were given for some ranks, sufficient to
shock the public mind, he thought it would be an advan-
tage upon the whole if purchase was put an end to. He
was a warm advocate for the educati el of officers, not no
much as a test of fituess as a means of training them.
That rniaht be done either with or without porch isle. He
certainly deprecated the handing over of this subject to
a committee of that house, for, is his opinion, there were
not enough hon. monaheis qualified to follow the matter in
all its details, so as to work out a satisfactory conclusion.
He thought that a mixed commission composed both of
civilians and military wen would be very much better
adapted to meet the cud in view—viz., the reformation of
the present system. Souse lion. members considered the ap-
peintment of a commission as tantamount to a shelving of
the whole affair. He would, however, call tam attention of
the house to the fact that the last commission which was
appointed had altered the system of promotion, and had
otherwise effected greater reforms in the army than had
been introduced fora century previous. He trusted that
the Government would consent to a commission, and that
the hon, and gallant member (Sir De Lacy Evans) would,
if they did so, withdraw his amendment iu favour of such
a prepoial.
Lord PALMERSTON said—The question which we aro
now considering is one which has occupied the attention of
the public at Large, and which mu-t have forced itself on
the serious consideration of all who have turned their at-
tention to military matters. Now, sir, I confess that for
my own part my opinion in the abstract is against the sys-
tem of purchase. It is a system which nobody would pro-
pose to establish in any army now about Se created for
the first time. It is a system which exists only in the Bri-
tish army. It has no existence in the navy, it does not ex-
ISt in the artillery, it only exists by a sort of evasion iu
the E tat India Company's service, and it exists in no fo-
reign army, I believe, in the world. Hence, in the abstract
one's predisposition is against the continuance of the sys-
tem. But, on the other hand, it must be admitted that a

system which has existed so long as the system of purchase
in the British army is so interwoven with the arrangements
of tha t grea.t establishment that it would, eVeLL granule; a u
immediate desire to abolish it, require veryin attire consider:),
Lion to determine how that sted was to be effected, and
we must naturally expect to be met 13 great difficulties;
and furthermore, it cannot ba denied that the present
system—whether in itself good or bad—has by process of
time become associated with circuinstances advantageons
in onie degree to the army in which it has grown. up.
The evil which is always felt in an army where promotion
goes by seniority is that there is accumulated in the higher
ranks of that army a grout number of men who, by age or
circumstances, are unfitted for the active discharge of the
duties which belong to their station ; and, in order to avoid
that difficulty, in most of the continental armies arrange-
ments have been male for putting on the retired list officers
who have arrive • at a certain rank and attained a certain
age. Unless that is done the army becomes overcrowded
in its higher ranks with officers unfitted for active duty,
and this was a great evil inseparable from every army
where promotion by purchase does not exist. As my hon.
friend (11r. Peel) has already clearly arid fully explained,
the operation of the system of perchase is, that it relieves
the army from those who by age or infirmity are no longer
able to fulfil their duties, and it therefore accelerates the

current of promotion, and recruits the 'nigher ranks with
men younger, more active, mast more able to perform the
duties which fall to their position. If, then, the system
of purchase wer difficulties would arise. In the
first ilaco some other systr.m nuis be established by which
,he save effect is to be produced, that is to say, an arrange-
ment must be devised by which officers svh•o by age or in-
drinity have grown unfit for active duty should be remove
and removed under conditions consonant with the services
which they have performed. Such a course must ueces-
s,.rily involve some expense to the country. lam quite
certain, sir, that the country would not grudge any rea-
sonable eapeuse fur such a purpose. Agin, those officers
who have purchas:d their connu.ssions must in some way
sr other receive coinpensatiou for the sums which they
have expended ; that w ,uld b i an arrangement attsnded
.vith a very considerable expense. I don't mean to say th t
it would not be distributed over a lour, period of ti ne, and
it is p essible—indeed, I shouid thinCthe.t, if rut adequate
irrangement were proposed, neither this house tor the
country would he inclined to refuse to make the necessary
provision for• such a purpose, so long as they were assured
that such a step would be for the efficiency of the tiriny. I

cannot, however, but think that sotne of the arguments
which have been used have been a little overstrained. Ido
nut Fee in what way the system of purchase would preclude
you from ascertaining by examination that those desiring
Join missions are competent to the duties of their profession.
I cannot for the life of me understand why you are not en-
.itled to examine and require a certain amount of comps-
.ency from an officer who buys his eusigncy as well as Irmo
one to whom you give that onsigncy Neither do I thick
the system of purchase, jointly with an examination, would
alter the character and composition of the rank bolo which
our odicers a,ie taken. I entirely agree with the right hon.
4entletnan (slr. S. Herbert)—and it is useless to disguise

,he opinion—that it is desirable itish army shoal be
Acered, as a rulo, by gontlemen—(hear)—althougti uu
loubt there are cases in which persons from the rauks may,
by singular merit and distinguished service, be fitted to rise
un the higher ranks of their profession. Indeed I think that,
;enerally speaking, in all armies it in the upper classes who

%re put to lead the lower, and that it very seldom happens
hat persons in the lower classes rise with comfort to them-
4elves to a rank for which their previous position has not
itted thrin. I think the house seems pretty well agreed that
the matter it one which ought to be inquired in to—(hear)—
And that it ought to be inquired into with a view or ascer-
taining whether some change could not be made in the inte-
rest of the service and of the public. Now I agree with may
right hon. friend in his opinion that a committee of this
house is not the best instrument for conducting such an in-
luiry. (Hoar.) At the outset we are met by the fact that the

inquiry ought to be directed, not simply to the practice in
he British army, not simply to considerations purely con
uected with our own arrangements, but, in order to lay
Lhe matter fully open for e flisieleration, that the body to
whom the inquiry is entrusted should ascertain what has
been done in other Europe tn armies. This is a kind of
duty which can be far better undertaken by a commission
than by a committee. Indeed my hon. and gallant friend
who made this motion (Sir Del, Evaes), if I understood
him rightly, Reamed at the conclusion of his speech dis-
posed, if her Majesty's Government would appoint a com-
mission, to waive his own proposal for a committee. lam
quite ready to adopt that course—(hear)—aura if my hoe.
and gallant friend will therefore waive the motion which
he has made, I evil undertake, on the part of her Ma-
jesty's Government, that a mixed commission, o isisting
partly of ci viliana and partly of military nice. Atilt be
pointed to pursue the inquiry, which was, indeed, com-
menced bY tho former commissioners, but was nit con-
eluded by them, as they thought the terms of their com-
mission did nut extend to this subject. I should hope,
therefore, that after the discussion which has taken place
iny hoe. and gallant friend will be content to leave Vie in-
quiry to be pursued by the commissioners in the way which
I heve suggested. (Hear.)
Sir DE L. EVANS hail listened with much pleasure to
the statements which had been rustle by the noble lord,
and, after what lied fallen from him, was willing to accede
to his proposal and withdraw the present motion. Ho had
also been greatly pleased with much which had fallen from
the tight hoe. gentleman behind him (Mr. S. Herbert).
Hon. members opposite ro doubt thought him Pr De L.
Evans) a great Radical, but he could assure them that he
quite concurred with the right hon. gentleman (Mr. S.
rferbert) in thinking that the army should be officered by
the class out of which its officers were at p;esent chosen.
(dear.) He had a high opinion of the gallantry of that
class, but he was anxious to see those who composed it go
into the army as a serious and important profession, anti
not join it as a mere pastime. (Hear.) He could not
doubt but that our a/ istouracy, to their honour, would not
shriek from a system of examination. (Hear.)
The iuotim.o was then withdrawn.
TITRE COMMUTATION RENT-CHARGE.
Mr. R. PHIILIMORE obtained leave to brin , in a bill
to regulate parochial settleineios arid to provide for ajuster
and more uniform rating of tithe commutation rent-charges
to the relief of the poor.
BLEACHING, &c., WORKS.
Lord J. MANNERS, on the part of Mr. Butt, obtained
leave to bring in a till to regulate the employment of
women and young persons in bleaching works.

PRICES OP Sti ARES
IN -BANKS, ASSURANOE, AND OTHER COA).

71.
03,

X d

2,1 0
20
so ,
t‘O is 0

21 103. 50 0
81 per cent 10 0 0
10! & .onus. 50 0 0

5: 40 0 o
' 0 0
6: per cent. 25 0
4 • per cent. 60 0 0
51. 100 0

los. s•' 4 (1
41 ;Per cent. :,0 0 0
5,-, 0

WATER-WoRKS.

Dividend Amount
per of
I Annum. share.

£ s. d.
Stock

50 0 0
100 0 0
100 0 0

100 0 0
61 0 0

Z s. 4.
all

20 0 0
25 0 0
25 0 0

ad. 0
20 0 0
20 0 0
10 J 0
25 0 0
all
22 10 0
35 0 0
11 0 0

2 10 0
10 0 0

Dividend
per
Annum.

160 21. les.
100 161,
100 --
78 5! Os
30 '1
85 11. 10s.
l4'

12
1,10 28/
125'
,45. 121.
Etl 21.
loco 21.

lon 21.
781 2/.
—1 10s. Od.

LIST OF SCOTTISII COMPANIES' PRICES.
Dividend Amo.ln t
Name of Company. per I of Paid. Price.
Annum. I Share.
---- --
.£
Rank of Scotland .. 7.. per cent. 1100 0 0 100 0 0 184/ 0
••
British Linen Company 81. per cent 100 0 0 100 0 0 220/5s
Caledonian Bank ..... Si. per ceat 10 0 0 210 0 31. ]vs
City of ' lasgow Ba.ik 51. per cent. 10 0 0 to , 0 11/14s
.... 53,i/. p cent 20' 0 0 10 a ,Vdesdale Bank 0 12 ins
C tnntercial Bank •• 71. per cent ,5 0 0 0 'OO 0 0 223/es
Eastern Bank.. •••• •• 5/ per cent. 25 u 0 10 0 0 i/ 3s
Edinb. Sc Glasgow.. • . 3%1. p cent. ' 5 0 0 5 0 0 4/. lOs
Exchange Bnk of ilcot.. .....
National Bank .. •... 96 per cent. 100 0 0 0 0 0 171/ ns
North of •cotland Bank 51 per cent 20 0 0 210 0 li. 17s
(royal Bank of - cotl. .. hi. per cent In() 0 0 100 0 0 132/10
Union Bank of scot. .. Si. per cent. 100 0 0 50 0 0 92115 s
Wester, Bank •• .• •• •• 71. per cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 751 ns
Alliance Fire and Li‘e.. 81,4 J. pr cent. 100 0 0 11 0 0 114/10.,
British (ittarantee ... AL per cent. 10 0 0 2 0 0 1/ 13s
Caledonian Fire Incur, 10, pet cent. ,00 0 0 10 0 0 /5/10s
~,fty of ^ zlasgow Lite , 41. per cent. 0 0 2 0 0 i/. 8.
Co onial Lt ......... 51. per cent. 50 0 0 1 0 0 i/: 7s
Edintir;rh Life inter. 41. eer cont. Or 0 0 15 0 0 t7lles
Eng. & Scot, Lass Life 51.,scr cent. 50 0 0 .1 5 0 'l/ 8s
Ltfe ss,,c. e 3cat,..lnd, «l. per cent. 10 0 0 110 05/ lOs
Nations, Fire and Life 164 per cant. , 0 0 0 I 0 0 ,21. Os
North British :nsur... i7l per cent .1)0 0 0 20 0 0 .12110 e
Scottish Union Ins. 7%1 prcent. In 0 0 1 0 0 1,. Ile
Standard Life ..............Si. per cent. 50 0 0 7 0 020 lOs
United Dep Assurance 5.1. ,),i• ..,,,t. 10 0 0 1 00 I

The Constitutionn el says :—" We are assured
that the widow of Admiral Bruat has been desig-
nated f r the high position of governess to the ex•
peeted infant of France ; and that Madame de
Brancion, widow of the colon(-4 killed before Sebas-
topol, is to he sub-governess."
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