The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-24 00:00:00

while I say that, I say on the ether hand that they ought
not to be ill-treated. (Hear, hers.) I want that they
should not be put in a worse situation than they are at
lore-sent. I do not wish that they should pay one penny
less. I ask the house if this is not the time to throw ell
on the troubled waters ? ( Hear, hear.) I ask you if this
is not the time to mitigate the asperities and soothe the
rancorous feelings which so universally exist in that coun-
try ? But what do you do ? You actually do nothing.
(Hear, hear.) You are to give a reduction to the land-
lord, but not for five years—and to the people yoli give
nothing. (Hear.) Good God ! Is it not insanity to post-
pane this for such a period. Five years ! Why, five years
is a century in the miseries of Ireland. Why, you might
as well prophesy something about millenium as to speak
of five years. You might as well speak about some great
event about to happen in the year 2,000 of the Christian
era, which would bring some happy change. (Hear, hest.)
The present plan is, that there should be eto
for five years. These years are as ranch an eternity
of the evil. (Hear, hear.) . Boet"epresent plan to
mitigate the evil Belt? Is it to aggravate it? Yes;
for now. only give The lithe owner the right of dis-
traint !. out If this measure passes into a law, he will not
have 'his action, but he can seize goods, ands, crops,
end even the body itself. He can invade the sanctity of a
'man's dwelling by night and by. day. You not only give
him the lion's share, but you give him the lion's strength.
You give him the power without the generosity or lor-
bearance of the animal. (Cheers.) Let us now look to
the change which has taken place in tithes, even in our
own time. In the first year of the reign of that deservedly
revered Monarch, George IV., the tithe-owner had only
recourse against the grower of the crop for his tithes. No
one else was liable for them. He could only get them by
an action in the Ecclesiastical Courts, and he could not
get them by distraint. The occupier had formidable ad-
vantages. He could say, "I am living in a troublesome
neighbourhood, and although I am willing to pay my tithes,
cu may not find it convenient to take them away, and I
will rawer pay you a certain sum in lieu of them, which
will perhaps be more advantageous to both parties." I
will do 'the justice to the Protestant clergy to say—l do
not speak of the tithe-gatherers, neither do I speak of the
Protestant clergy altogether, for I know cases to the cen-
trary—but I will say, that generally, where the clergy Were
themselves on the spot, they and the peasantry seldom
quarrelled about the tithes. (Hear, heer. ) The tenants,
then, had advantages opposed to those enjoyed by the
proctor and larger proprietor; and, as these advantages
balanced each other; and as it was for the good of both
that they should not dispute, they were generally on good
terms. That was the way matters stood at the beginning
of the reign of George IV. Now, how stands the case at
present ? In the first place, the land is liable for the
tithes.. 'The right of distraint is given. An action, as for
a civil debt, is given against the occupier, no matter whe-
ther h.; be the grower or not, and now, to accumulate all
the a:lvan:ages on one side, they are made a crown debt,
and they are to be recovered as rent. This is to be the
sate of i.he tithes, if this measure passes, and what does it
signify whether they are to be recovered by the name of
tithes, or as the arrears of rent, which the proprietors would
never have been able to recover? ( Hear, hear.)
Ne 'proprietor receives in Ireland the amount of rent
*which appears on his rent-roll. (Hear, hear, and No, no.)
-At least, in mast instances, the amount which appears on
the rent-roll is much superior to what the landowner
pockets; and what will be the consequence under this
bll ? The effect will be, that the landlord will be obliged
in his own protection to recover the last shilling he is
Able, which he inight otherwise be inclined to remit. The
f ,stering care between landlord and tenant will thus .be
real a.ssuscter, and he will become a mere receiver of rent
odd tithes—a. torturer, whose only wish will be to extract
the last farthing from the miserable tenant. (Hear,
hear.) This is- no exaggeration. It is a true picture of
what must follow. the pa.ssing of this bill. (Hear, hear. )
At present in the Court of Chancery, it appears a receiver
can give the power of abatement in cases where abatement
is considered necessary, but under this bill the landlord can-
not do so. (Hear; hear.) But if the bill have all the
effect expected from it by its- promoters--if it have the
effect of recovering the arrears of tithes, still I call on
the bonito to consider what influence this will have over pri-
vate property. People talk of the influence which the legis-
lature have over private property as dangerous, and there-
fore to be avoided , but what is that danger to that to be
created by this bill ? The more I look into this measure
the more I am convinced we ought, as statesmen and
governors of this mighty realm, to tremble when we mean
to enforce the tithes by the strong power of the police.
( Hea-, hear.) See what the consequence will be. If you
take upon yourselves to see the clergy paid, then you will
have a certificate of the amount to which the clergy-
man is entitled, and pay it to him. But how are you
to recover that sum'? If the honourable member for Mid-
dlesex falls as'eep, which he is not likely to do, you
will have some other member to point-to von that you are
laying out half a million to recover thirty thousand
poonds. You last year spent 26,000/., and recovered
only 12,0001., and I do not see why-what happened last
year should not occur in the next. (Hear, hear.) You
will be pig hunting one day and blanket bunting the
next all over the 'country, and you will come back with
the honour and glory of havin recovered 30,000/. at the
expense of 50,'1,0001. (Heir. g ) But suppose for a mo-
ment that vou do recover all the arrears of tithe. Still
consider how you are to do so t you must do it by car-
rying on war front village to village, and from field to
field. You must do it by skirmishing and fighting ; you
cannot recover the tithes but by blanket-hunting and pig-
hunting throughout all Ireland. In short, the Govern-
ment sill become pighunter-general to the Protestant
clergy. (A laugh.) If you fail, you must be taunted
with weakness ; if you succeed, it will only be by bar-
barous crimes, and by a war of extermination. (Cheers.)
That which ignorance acquired will only be conceded in
blood, and retaliation must follow. This is the actual
state to which the country will be reduced, and there is
no disguising it. It cannot be denied that this bill will
make the Government the tithe-owner-general of Ire-
land. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I asked but for a
redaction of three-fifths of the amount of tithes, but I
got n p reduction • I asked for the appropriation, but that is
net c .needed. I said that the reduction -of itself would
not satisfy the people of Ireland, but that appropriation
mast accompany it; I believe the noble lord will do me the jus-
tice ro acknowledge that I said reduction would not do with-
out appropriation ; and I will now further state, that the
attempt to levy tithes without appropriation will be the
malting of unmitigated war upon the people. (Hear.) I
therefore say, that if you do not reduce the amount of
tithes, give us at least the consolation of appropriation. I
admit, willingly, appropriation of itself will not satisfy the
people ; but give us appropriation and we can wait for re-
duction. (Cheers.) I repeat, that I implore the house
to give us appropriation. (Cheers. But it will be said
that I suggested formerly an improper appropriation—that
I wished to give it for glebes and salaries to the Catholic
clery. I did no such thing; but I did that which I thought
wou'id go far to reconcile the people of Ireland to the Go-
vernment of England ; I did that which I thought would
bring peace—that which I thought would do away with
that feeling which makes the Irish '
_people although for
670 years under the dominion of the English Government,
still look on that Government as strangers. Give this, and
then yeauwill have a right to taunt those who still continue
to call you Saxons and strangers. ( Hear, hear.) In at-
tempting to obtain the adoption of this plan, I risked
my own fame and popularity, ; I have lost some already
—but I am ready to risk all if I can procure the pa-
cification of my country. Ido not wish for any part
of the revenues of the Protestant church for the Ca-
tholic clergy, neither do the Catholic clergy theniselves
wish for it. It may be asked why the Catholic . clergy
are different from all other clergymen—why they
should dislike to fake their' support from the Go-'
vernment as others do ? I see no difference between'
the two persuasions which should make the ministers of
the one not like, as well as those of the other, a few of
the comforts of this world as a foretaste of the blessings
of the world to come ( A laugh); and yet how comes it
that they, being but mortal men, and subject to man's
weaknesses, should shudder at the notion of any claim
being made on their account upon this money to be ap-
propriated? Does it not bring the foregone conclusion,
that the people do not believe that this measure is meant
for their benefit, or io bring them peace, and that they
would consider that their clergy were going into the enemy's
camp and taking pay in order to betray them? Blame
this, abuse it, if you please ' • you may abuse and insult
ns in your superiority. I talk only facts and state only
what I know 1.0 be the disposition of thepeople ; and I say
that this disposition is the result of 670 years of unge-
nial government and misrule. (Hear, hear.) In my
motion I throw aside the claims of the Catholic clergy—
I ask nothing for them. Tne hour is not come when the
Catholic clergy can take it with honour or safety to them-
selves. I pledge myself that the Irish Catholic clergy will
not want any part of it. (Hear, hear.) It has been said
in another place, let the property of the Protestant
Church be applied to Protestant purposes only ; I say let
it be applied to Irish purposes only (Cheers) ; and I am
also ready to say--and in that I adopt the language used
in another house—" Let none of it be applied to Catholic
purposes." ((heers.) Away then with the bugbear of the
intended triumph to the Catholic Church. ( Hear, hear.)
I am too sincere a Catholic not to wish to see that Church
continue disconnected with the State. We are approach-
ing the time, and I hope it will soon arrive, when no
Christian will be called on to contribute towards the sup-
port of a Church in the doctrines of which he does not be-
lieve ; and let those who put the least faith in my political
principles give me credit for sincerity in wishing that day
to arrive. I call on you to take this step, in order that
Ireland may be assimilated to England. But have you a
church consonant with the wishes of the people in Eng-
land ? The dissenters complain that they are made to pay
for its support, and that they put no faith in the bishops or
the thirty-nine articles ; but, alter all, it must be admitted
that the established church of England is the church of
the people. (Cheers.) In Scotland you find no thirty-
nine articles—no bishops. The thirty-nine articles are
cut down to I do not know what number ; but do you in
ScOtLena, „insist on the people supporting the episcopal
church?'' You do not—and why ? You tried for fifty
years to force them to support it, but the Scotch, with
be exception of a few of the nobility, who preferred per-