The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-08 00:00:00

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.

Sir B. HALL wished to ask the Right Honourable
Baronet the Secretary-of State for the Home Department
a question relating to the Ecclesiastical Courts of this
country. It would be remembered that last session he
alluded to an appointment which bad been made by the
Archbishop of Canterbury to a reversionary office in the
Prerogative Court worth 10,000/., and to a similar
appointment by another dignitary of the Church, and he
wished now to know whether it was the intention of Go.
vernment to introduce this session any measure to remedy
those evils, and generally to reform the system of our
Ecclesiastical Courtsl? He also wished to ask the
Right Honourable Baronet whether it was his intention
to bring in any Bill for dividing large and populous
parishes?
Sir G. GREY said a Bill was under consideration
with reference to the Ecclesiastical Courts, but he could
hold out no hope when it would be brought in. With
regard to dividing populous parishes, Government did
intend to propose a Bill on the subject.

C EIOLERA IN JAMAICA.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know if the Colonial
Department had any objection to lay on the table any
returns they might have received relative to the progress
of the cholera in Jamaica; and whether it was the in-
tention of Government to take steps to relieve the colony
in any way.
Mr. HAWES bad no objection to produce all the
papers on the subject; but with regard to the second
question, all he could say was the Noble Lord at the
head of the Colonial Department was in communication
with the colony upon the matter of relief, and everything
would be done that was in the power of the Government.

BOARD OF TRADE RETURNS.
Mr. HERRIES wished to ask the Right Hon. the
President of the Board of Trade when the usual
monthly returns of trade and commerce were likely to be
forthcoming. Perhaps, at the same time, it would be as
well for him to intimate that it was not his
intention to bring forward the motion of which he had
given notice for Tuesday next.
Mr. LA.BOUCHERE had made inquiries on the sub-
ject of the returns, and he hoped to be able to lay them
before the House on Monday.
ECCLESIASTICAL MATTERS.
Sir R. H. INGLIS. adverting to Sir B. Hall's question
reported above, raid the Hon. Baronet was mistaken in
supposing the appointments to which he referred wero
sinecures, and so he thought the Right Hon. the Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department could confirm.
Sir GEORGE GREY said he had certainly received
a communication from the Archbishop of Canterbury to
that effect.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Mr. C. LEWIS, it was agreed that
the House at its rising should adjourn to Monday.
PAPAL AGGRESSION.
LORD JOHN RUSSELL'S MEASURE.

Lord J. RUSSELL,
amid the most profound silence
rose at twelve minutes past five o'clock, to ask for leave
pursuant to the notice he had given, to bring in a
Bill to prevent the • assumption of certain eccle-
iaAt:c.:l ;zi Uatt,..d
Kingdom. The Noble Lord said:', Mr. Speaker,—lt
is with considerable anxiety that I now approach
the important subject which I have promised to bring

uncle? the consideration of the House. The deep in-
terest which is felt in the country by all chases of persons;
the numerous petitions that have been p resented to this
House, praying the House to resist any encroachment
on the part of a foreign Sovereign; the a ddresses which
have been presented to the Crown—all make it a matter
of deep responsibility to undertake the task of bringing
such a question under the notice of the House. Sir,
that anxiety is not diminished, but ir.creased, by the
symptoms which appeared the other evening of the dis-
position of a great portion of the House with respect to the
motion I laid on the table of the House. One Hon.
Gentleman (the Member for Sheffield), who spoke on
the motion for the Royal Address, warned me not to
take a retrograde step on this subject—(Hear)—and
another Hon. Gentleman (the Member for Buckingham-
shire) warned me, on the other side, not to intro-
duce anything less than a complete code
to regulate all the relations which easy occur be-
tween the Court of Rome and her Majesty's subjects in
the United Kingdom. Now, Sir, with respect to the
first observation, that I should not take a retrograde
step, I will say that the only retrograde step I pro-
pose to take is that natural action of a man
who finds a blow aimed at his head, and who steps back-
wards and raises his arm and puts himself in a posture of
defence.—(Cheers.) With regard tohhe other obser-
vation, I will not now enter into the consideration of
why I differ from the Hon. Gentleman, but in the
course of the speech that; I shall, have to make, I shall
have to address tho:e observations to the House which
appear to me to belong to the subject, and state those
motives which induce the Government not to pursue
that course which he has suggested as the most proper.
Sir, in bringing this subject before the House I beg
the House to recollect some of the circumstances
which have occurred very recently. In the course of the
last year the nomination of an archbishop in Ireland
by the Roman See was made in an unusual manner.—
' (Hear, hear.) It was generally understood, and has
never been contradicted, that those who usually
elected to the office of archbishop on the part of
the Roman Catholics of Ireland had sent three names,
but that instead of any of the learned ecclesiastics being
chosen for that office, a clergyman who had been long
resident in Rome, and who was more conversant with
the habits and opinions of Rome than the state and cir-
cumstances of I; eland,was appointed kiy the Pope to assume
the effice of Archbishop in Ireland. No doubt that
ecclesiastic showed very clearly that it was not his in-
tention to follow the usual practice which had hitherto
been pursued by Archbishop Murray and others, of put-
ting himself in communication with the Government in
relation to any matters necessary to be transacted with re-
gard to the Irish people. Presently we found theta synod
bud been called at Thurles. It was stated that at the synod
a question was put whether or not an address be issued
to the people of Ireland, and that that motion was car-
ried by a majority of 13 to 12, the majority of one con-
sisting of that very person who had been sent
over from Rome, and who was entirely un-
aequainted with the state of Laland.—(Elear, hear.) '
If the proceedings of that s) nod had related only t
the internal discipline of the Roman Catholic
religion—if it had bean shown oat its proceed-
ing:, only referred to matters that required alter-
ation and amendment in the Roman Catholic Church
—however unusual, and entirely without precedent
the assembling of a synod might be—for no such thing
had taken place since the time of :he revolution—l should
net have telt surprise at the manner in which the s 3 nod
had acted. But a great portion of the address which the
synod issued was taken up by two subjects. The
one was the danger of the system of education by the
establishment of colleges in Ireland by her Majesty's Go-
vernment, in conformity with an Act of Parliament,
and it stated that the principles upon which
those colleges were established were principles which
were opposed to the inflexible nature of the Roman
Catholic religion, and it was pointed out in the address
that these colleges could not exist without destroying
the morals and religion of the Roman Catholic youth.
The other part of the address was taken up with a descrip-
tion of the state of the poorer portion of the peasantry of
Ireland, with reel:act to the manner in which their
landlords had dealt with them, and no language
was omitted that could excite their feelings against
the owners of land who had enforced the process of the
law against their tenants. Now, Sir, lam not going
on the present occasion to enter into a defence of the
establishment of the Queen's Colleges in Ireland, nor
to discuss the question whether the Irish landlords have
acted with discretion or humanity in asserting their legal
rights, but I wish to point out to this House the most im-
portant circumstance, that on a question of occupancy
of laud, the synod, composed entirely of Roman Catholic
ecclesiastics, from which all the laity were excluded—
that Synod had thought proper, at their first meeting, to
issue an address, to the Irish people on what was their
duty to, and what ought to be their conduct towards,
theirlandlorde.—(Loud cheers.) I would ask the
Honourable and Learned Member for Sheffield
whether this was entertaining and considering purely
spiritual concerns? —(Loud cheers.) I would ask him,
whether this House and the Government of this coun-
try can see a Catholic archbishop appointed and a synod
called together—whose first proceeding was to hold
forth to the people of Ireland, its opposition to an Act of
Parliament which had been passed for the purpose of
educating the people of Ireland, for the purpose
of educating the poorer and middle classes of society,
and also exciting the minds of the peasantry of Ireland
against their landlords?—(Hear, hear.) Sir, this is an
instance at all events to show that the synod did not
deal with purely spiritual matters. The interference of
clerical persons with the temporal and civil concerns of
the State has been attempted for the first time by this
synod in Ireland, not as a beginning only, but as
a beginning to be maintained and followed up, and to be
asserted on future occasions with more potent effect.—
(Loud cheers.) There is a part of this transaction to
which I will direct the attention of the House. I re-
ceived a copy of this address, and on the title-page it
was signed by the Archbishop of Armagh as Primate
of Ireland. About the same time I received
a communication from the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,
a communication to the effect that the matter had been
referred to those conversant with the law, and they bad
said they could not do anything in the matter, as the
words did not appear upon any document
sent to them. I will
,now refer to an occurrence
which took place some time since in Sardinia,
It had been the law of that country that ecclesiastics
were not liable to civil tribunals. Some time ago, the
Sardinian Parliament at Turin altered this law,
making the ecclesiastics amenable to civil courts. One
of the Ministers who had brought in this law soon after-
wards became dangerously ill ; being questioned on
the subject by the Archbishop of Turin, he replied in a
manner which was not satisfactory, and it is known
that he died without receiving the sacraments of the
Church, in fact as one out of the pale of the Church.
That is an instance of spiritual power and spiritual
censure for the purpose of controlling and directing
a Minister of the Crown and a Member of Parliament,
in his conduct relating to that Crown and Parliament.—
(Hear, hear.) I beg the House to observe these things
because they are not altogether foreign to us; they may
not yet be introduced to us this year, but we are told
in that country to which I have alluded that the doctrines
of the Church of Rome are inflexible, their maxims
unchangeable.—(clear, hear.) They may not think it
expedient to introduce such practices at present into
this country, but they retain in their own hands tho
power of applying those measures and that spiritual
power. About the same time a manifestation of Romish
interference took place in Belgium, a Government which
had shown more favour to the independence of the Ro-
man Catholic body than any other country in Europe,
because they had allowed the Roman Catholics
to enjoy their right of appointment to benefices, while
the civil Government entirely retrained from interfering
with the nominations of the ecclesiastical body. The
ecclesiastics, by expedients of their own, had managed
to get the direction of the educational system of Belgium
into their hands; and when the civil Governmeet had taken
some steps to interfere with this subject a document was
circulated by the ecclesiastics bearing upon the question
at the time when an election was anticipated for the
purpose of influencing the chambers. The chambers,
however, came to no decision nnfavourable to the Go-
verninent, and it was thought necessary to instruct the
Belgian Minister at Rome to assure the Secretary
of State that no disrespect bad been intended to
the Court of Rome. Now I coma to the pro-
ceeding in this country. At the end of September,
a letter apostolic, sealed with the fisherman's seal, was
received in this country altering the ecclesiastical law of
this country, doing away with the vicars-apostolic, and
proposing;to establish an archbishop and bishops, among
whom the country was to be divided. Sir, I shall
afterwards state the view which I take of that document;
what I wish to state now is, that that change was made
entirely without the consent, and, I may say, without the
knowledge of the Government of this country.—(Great
cheering.) I had stated in this House, in answer to a
question from an Hon. Member, that I could not approve
of any such scheme. I had been told by a private friend,
of the Roman Catholic persuasion, that such a project
was in contemplation, but I had told him
that I should never consent to such a pro-
ject being carrried out. I heard nothing more of it,
and I concluded, perhaps weakly, that the Government
of Rome being a friendly Government, would never
think it possible to create archbishops and bishops,
and of dividing this country without communicating at
least that project to this Government.—(Hear, hear.)
I could not believe that it would have so insulted
the Queen,—(Great cheering, which continued for some
minutes.) I may have been like the foolish Italian
shepherd, who said—
" Urbem, quam dicunt Romani, Melibase, putavi,
Stultus ego huic nostre similem ;"
(Laughter.) I may have thought most trustingly and
imprudently that the Court of Rome would observe such
relations, such discretion, such courtesy in her conduct
with the State of England, as all other States that are
friendly observe towards each other, and as she herself
has observed towards every other State in Europe.—
(Hear.) It appears that I must have been mistaken.
I have seen in a letter, or supposed letter—(Hear, hear)
—of Cardinal Wiseman. at least in a puhiteation eget ibed
to that personage, that the Earl of Minto was cognisant
of the measures which were in progress, when he was at
Rome, for the establishment of a Romish hierarchy in
England.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of Minto has given
a public and emphatic denial to that statement.—(Loud
and continued cheering: from all parts of the House.)
W e have heard the E;;J:.L7, io thttst ttc,4 inter-
view with which be was honoured at the Court of home,
the Pope, pointing to a table in the room, observed,
" There is something there that regards you;" but Lord
Minto did not look at the paper, or make any observa.