The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-30 00:00:00

FACTORIES BILL.

Lord ASHLEY postponed the second reading of this
Bill to Wednes.l iy next.

DEBTOR AND CREDITOR.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL gave notice, that on
the first open day after the recess, he should make a mo-
tion to the House, touching imprisonment for debt, and
the law of debtor and creditor.—(Heir, hear.)
Mr. GISBORNE give notice that on Thursday, the
15th April, he would move an address to his Majesty,
respecting the military force kept up in the lonian Wand..
AMENDMENT IN THE IRISH REFORM BILL.

Mr. H. GRATTAN gave n,,tiee, that on Thurs lay he
would move to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the
Irish Reform Bill.

Mr. O'CONNELL had intended to bring in such. a
Bill, but he would very willingly give up to his Hon.
Friend, and render him every assistance. Ae, how-
ever, several Irish Election Cimmittees were sitting, it
would be better to postpone the motion until those Com•
mitrees had concluded.

Mr. H. GRATTAN would let the notice stand for the
present. _

- Sir R. PEEL asked if the Noble Lord (Althorp) would
have any objection to lay on the table of th? House to. day
a copy of the resolutions which he intended to move
on Monday respecting the Irish Church, in order that they
might be printed, and in the hands of Members.

Lord ALTHOIIP was not he.ird to make any reply.
BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice that en an early
day Ifter Easter he wood move for a Select C9onnittee
to icquire into all the petitions which had b. en presented
to the House respecting bribery and corruption at elec
dons in cities and boroughs in England.--(Hear.)

POOR LAWS COMMISSION.
On Lord ALTHORP moving the orJer of the day for
the third reading of the Suppression of Disturbances (Ire-
land) Bill,
Mr. HANDIER asked the Noble Lord whether he could
❑ tne a day when the report of the Poor Laws Commis
o:oners Bill w.itild he read ?

Lord ALTHORP was understood to say that be was
unable to name a day; indeed, in ghat he had beforestatrd,

as to the period when the report was likely to be produced,
he w is mistaken.
Mr. HANMER then gave notice that on the 21st of
April he would move for a Select Committee to inquire
into the law relating to passing Irish Vagrants.
An HON. MEMBER. (name unknown) presented petitions
from the Counties of Roscommon and Leitrim against the
Irish Coercive Bill.
Mr. ATTWOOD hoped he should not be deemed un-
courteous, if, on the order of the day being read on Mon-
day, upon the Irish Church Reform, he moved as an
amendment that the order of the day be read to bring for-
ward a motion of which he (Mr. A.) had given notice.--
(Loud cries of " Oh, oh.")
Lord ALT HORP said the Hon. Member was at liberty,
certainly, to do so ; but considering the importance of the
motion of the Hon. Member—(Hear)—it would be better
to have it discussed by itsel', for if he moved that amend-
ment, some Members would speak on the Irish Church,
and others upon the monetary system.—(Laughter.)
Mr. ATTWOOD said it would be only following the
Noble Lord's own example; lie would, however, make
his motion on the motion for a Committee of Supply, if
the No.le Lord would tell him when that would come
on.—( Lord Ar.nroaP—Wednesday next.) Then he
would rake the chance of being able to bring it. on then.
Lord ALTHORP said the motion was of that impor-
tance, that it would he desirable to have it fixed for a day
certain, in order that gentlemen might know when it
was coming on.--( Hear, hear.) He suggested that it
would be better to pos'pone it until the first supply day
after E aster. —( He ,r. )
Sir R. PEEL thought it much better to fix a day aft r
Easter. Monday was fixed for the Irish Church, and it
could not come on probably until it was lare at night, and
Wednesday was an awkward day, as the House would
probably rise fur the holydays, when, perhaps, It would be
necessary to adjourn the debate over the holydays.
Mr. HUME suggested that the Noble Lord should state
when the holydays would commence.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY thought it would be impor-
tant that the Hun. Member's motion should be postponed
till the subject of the Bank Charter was introduced. The
two subjects, in fact, were so completely mixed up with
each other, that he did not see that it %rids possible sepa-
rately to discuss them.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

Lord ALTHORP had not intended to give notice of
tie adjaurnment till Tuesday, as it was possible b fore
that some alteration would take place. A• Le had now
been pressed, however, upon the subject, consider-
ing the state of public business, and the little progress
that had been made, he was afraid he could not, in justice
to the public service, propose an adjournment at the ordi-
nary rate flis present intention was that the holydays
should close on Wednesday, the 10th of April.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUAIE was very unwilling to interfere wi'h the
Noble Lord's plans, but lie knew that many Members
from the public Committees had already made their ar-
rangements, presuming that the holydays would extend
further. It would be very inconvenient if the Noble
Lord persisted in his intention to limit them to the ap-
pearance without the reality ot holydays.
Lord ALTHORP said the matter had not been de-
finitively settled. He had only stated what his peseta
inter-pions were.
The order of the day for the third reading of the
IRISH DISTURBANCES BILL
was then read, and
Mr. CLAY rose to address the House. He considered
the present question to involve the welfare, the peace,
perhaps the integrity of the empire.—(Hear.) He
was no party man ; but with the deci eil opinion
he had formed on this measure, lie should ill perform he.,
public duty if he did not, on the occasion of the third
reading of the Bill, protest in the strongest terms against
its passing into a law ; if he did not express his d: tided
disapprobation of the spirit in which it was conceived, and
the fatal , &cot which it would produce. In voting for the
first reading of the Bill be had been actuated by a single
motive—he had been encouraged by a single hope—anti
he h• lieved that sufficient grounds exis•ed for arming the
Irish Executive with additional powers to put down the
outrages and disorders with which Ireland was at pre-
sent aft 3 cted; being of opinion that his Majesty's
Ministers had male out a case to that extent,
he felt that he could nut consistently olij.ct to the
introduction of a measure, some of the provisions of which
appeared likely to have that effect. He was not without
hope that in the passage of the Bill through that House
it would have been shorn of all that was not im-
peratively required for that purpose—but that hope
had been hut partially realised. He did not mean to un-
derrate the value of the improvements that had been
made in Committee, nor to malign the Government for
not hiving sh,wn a wisdom which had been indeed too
tirdily displayed in acceding to those amendments, but
although much that was wrong had been take❑ away,
that which was greatly objectionable still remained.
In addition to the facility which would be given from the
hands by which the Bill would be worked to the indul•
eence of malignant passions, and the wreaking of larsonal
vengeance, the Bill still cant tined clauses which went to
the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, and tam-
pering with tire right of petition, and while these remained,
he should feel compelled to vote against the Bill.
To protect the peaceable and well-disposed parts of the
community was the first duty of a good government, as
it was the first duty of social compact, and such protection
he was most anxious to have afforded; but he could not con-
sent to give that pi otection at the sacrifice of the rights of
the whole country, nor did he feel that they were absolutely
driven to this alternative, for he firmly believed that if
the House were to reject the Bill before it, that rejection
would lead to the introduction of a measure for the sole
and express purpose of putting down Whiteboy outrages.
Such a measure would be unopposed by any party in that
House, and was all that was absolut•ly necessary...-.
(Hear, hear, Lear.) The House must now take
the Bill before it as a whole, and in his idea, whatever
the amendments that had been made, the Bill still had too
many of its original objections clinging about it, and could
not, as a whole, he considered as an emanation of justice,
wisdom, or policy. The House should not forget that the
Bill had two objects in view, entirely distinct from each
other, namely, a suppression of Wbiteboy outrages, and
the platting down of political agitation. In carrying
the first object into effect, the Bill had been armed
with touch arid unmerited severity. Then, with regard
to the political agitation which this Bill was meant
to put down, he would venture to say that it would
he per eetly ineffective. He challenged any man to show
him what additional powers the executive Government
would derive frotn this Bill to put down agitation. The
Volunteer Association might be put down, but there were
other means of agitating which would infall.bly he adopted
Public meetings, fur instance, might t ke place to petition
the Legislature for a redress of grievanc s, than which
he could not conceive a more eft ctual mode—by the elo.
quence had recourse to on those occasions, to inflame the
pas•iuns—of agitating the country. This Bill would
only crush one head of the Hydra, but would leave
he body, and many other heads, in the fu

vipur of their vitality—(hear, hear, (rear)—would
but amputate a branch, whilst the trunk and parent root
still remained to shoot forth flesh ones. I❑ fact, there

was no means of putting down agitation, except in the
redress of grievances, which, it could not tie too often

repeated, were the organs of life by which agitation was
sustained. There was, indeed, another mode of putting
down agitation—be meant the good old system of
ex,ermination—the hunting down of the mere Irish—th-
offering the dread alternative of " Hell or Connaught."
The spit it of the age, however, so far from suff,ring any
thing of that kind, had broken down the strongest parts
of this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) It was not !he minority
with which he had the honour to act, that had re-
duced the Bill to its present mutilated condition—a
condition to which it had been reduced, in spite of the
eloquence of the late Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland,
arid the practised oratory of the Right Hon. Member for
famworth. Ministers might persuade thethselv,s that tem-
porizing would not do, that there was no medium between
exercising despotic powtr over Ireland, and admitting to
her inhabitants an equal p irticipation in the rights,
privileges, and immunities of Englishmen. Since the year
1780, our policy with respect to Ireland hail titre-
,uakd between 'wo extremes, and he thought that
the present policy pursued towards that country was
somewhat similar. I, eland, however, would only be
satisti.d with a perfect and full measure of justice. Tue
appetite for justice and for freedom grew by what it fed
upon. When be beard the ingratitude of the people of
1 Ireland spoken of. both in and out of that House, for
not being shti•fied with the concessions that had been
made to them, and the whining about the wickedness
of the Honourable and Learned Member fur Dublin
fur pursuing his course of agitation, he could not help
saying that it appeared to him the merest drivelling
world.—(bear, hear.) Could it he imagined
the Honourable and Learned Member were
v h to morrow, there would be
srtillh'itaertp itihrtieri f
e from h
agitation? He would believe it when it was
proved to him that the people of Ireland were not govt rued
by the same principles as other men, nor actuated by the
same feeling of hatred of oppression and desire to seek
redress.tut
ißut, in fact, all freedom deserving of
the name had been wrung from oppressors by agitation.
anei,a
—(Hear, bear.) When he was shown an instance of
the contrary, he would acknowledge that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was in the wrong, but not till then, ,)

If there was any rule of universal application of the
motives and principles of human beings, this proposition
was true, that while there existed in Bel .nd misery
and distress on the one hand, and wrongs permitted by the
Go►ernment on the other, so long would agitation exist.
I lie objected to the measure, on the score of inefficacy, and
lie considered it also objectionable on the score of
injustice. He denied the right of any Ministry, or set
of men, to introduce measures to put down agita-
tion, until every means had been resorted to for
the purpose of putting an end to those miseries under
which it was notorious the country laboured.—(Hear.)
He gave full credit for all that had been done
by Ministers for Ireland—( Hear)—hot he thought
the Noble Lord himself would allow that they had not
gone to alleviate the distresses of the people of Ireland.
When they knew that the peasantry in Ireland were most
anxious to get work, and resorted to every means to endea-
vour to procure a livelihood, that all failed them, and
that they had no refuge from famine but the grave, it
was not surprising that some parts of Ireland were
convulsed with disorder; they might the rather be sur-
prised that the whole of the country was not in one univer-
sal state of disorder and confusion. He might he asked what
remedy he would propose ? He replied, that he would limit
the measures of coercion to what was necessary to protect
life and property ; and, with regard to political legislation,
he would say, do not legislate on the outward manifests-
lions, hut remove the causes—do not legislate upon
the effects, but upon the causes. Legislate with-
out
pretending to know that such a man as the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin (Mr. O'Connell)
was in existen•e, and, by remedying the real grievances
that 4flicted the country, they would destroy that influence
of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, w, ich was only
kept up and increased by the imaoliey which was put-
sued by his Majesty's Ministers with regard to that
country.
Mr. WILBRAHAM approved of this Bill in its general
principles, but strongly objected to the courtmartial
clause, as a departure from the Constitution.
Mr. COBBETT said—The Hon. Member on his left
(Mr. Clay) having said that the people were not with Mi-
nisters on this measure, there was a sort of negative cheer
on the other side of the House. He would say, too, that
the people were not with Ministers on this metsure.—
(Hear, hear.) He himself had this morning presented
petitions against the measure, signed by 50,000 English
men, resident in some of the greatest towns in the king-
dom, among others Mancheater, Norwich, Great Yar-
mouth, Nottingham, and Preston, the subscribers being
some of the most respectable inhabitants, if respectability
is taken to mean wealth and station. He had pre
sented, too, about forty petitions from diff rent parts in
Scotland, Inland, and Wales; and every petition pre-
sented to the House on the subject was strongly against
the Bill, none for it. The voice of the whole people of
England was against this abominable Bill. He would not
detain the House any longer, hut at once read a motion
he intended to bring forward and at least put it on record.
He intended to divide on the motion ; he had not thought
of asking any one to second it, and he did not much care
who voted for it : he was sure that his colleague
would ; and whether anybody supported it or not
he and his colleague would at least have done their
duty. The Honourable Member then read the
motion, which was, that " This House seeing in this Bill
the substitution of military courts for courts consisting of
Judges and Jurors—seeing, in it the abrogation of the most
precious of all the institutions of the country--seeing
clearly that its main purpose is to keep in the hands of the
present aristocracy the plunder of the ancient church and
the poor, at hich the ancestors of that aristocracy obtained
by apoltacy, and is hich has been retained by the cruel
penal laws and by the shedding of innocent blood—and
suspecting, moreover, that this Bill is intended as a pre-
lude to the adoption of similar measures in Great Britain,
this House will read this Bill a third time this day six
months." He would make but a very few observations,
and those merely to repeat his conviction that this Bill
was not intended for the Irish people alone. The idea of
introducing. an armed police force throughout this country
had occurred to Minister•, from their being well assured
that they would not be able to carry on the levying of
their most oppressive taxation without this species of exe-
cutive government : this was their only means of exacting
the taxes ; and he himself had reason to believe that they
had their plans already before them, and that they would
aeon be brought into the House. The Hon. Gentleman
concluded by repeating his motion.
The SPEAKER presumed the Hon. Member meant it
as an amendment on the original motion.
Mr. FIELDEN seconded the amendment

Mr. POULTER, in strong terms, repelled the proposi•
tion so often thrown out by Members on the Opposition
side of the House, that those other Menal.ers who sup-
ported Ministers on this question, were in combination to
degrade, en•l we, and destroy Ireland.

Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY laboured under a very great
disadvantage in not having heard the eloquent discussions
on this measure. He did not think, however, that any
arguments could induce him to alter his strong feeling of
opposition to this measure. He was very glad to see that
some of the clauses had been moit'fied, though the modifi-
cations in no instance were complete enough to induce him
to support them. It was of course indispensable that the
supremacy of the law should be maintained, in order to

,uppress the wild career of clime, and protect life and pro-
perty ; this was the great moral and social compact be-
tween the governors and the governed. But it was asked
by the great constituency be had the honour of represent-
ing—by the whole people of England—was there no way
of restoring peace in Ireland, but by carrying war into it ?
Some of the modifications in different clauses introduced
by the late Sect etary for Ireland ,vere very gratifying as
far as they went. That, for instance, of the courtmartial
clau,e, and one or two others. He should oppose the Bill,
and in his opposition lie spoke the sentiments of his COll-
-

Mr. 13ARNARD would vote for the third reading.
Mr. LANGDALE (we believe) had voted fur the first
and sec:ind reading of the Bill, but he could not vote for
the third reading. He had vote] for the first and second
reading, because a case had been, he thought, made out,
th it some evreme measure was nscessary; but there
were some of the clauses to which he could not agree.
There was one clause which stamped the Bill as a

Aire of prat severity. That was.the clause which est&

Wished mi:itary courts. One circumstance, in particu
lar, he thought of great importance—a redeeming feature
in the character of the Irish through all these disturbances.
On neither side of the House had one word ev.r
been said to lead any person to suppose that in all these
disturbances there was any symptom of disloyalty.
Mr. .I. YOUNG said,when the Hon. Alernher said that
there was no feeling of disloyalty among the peasantry,
al ow hint to say that ti.ey had not unfrequently spoken
of throwing off the yoke of the Saxons. That spirit was,
he was afraid, general; it had led to a general organiza-
tion amongst them, and he knew not bow that could be
met unless by courtsmartial, or some analogous tribunal.
In that view he had voted fur the first and second reading
of the Bill, and should vote for the third.

Sir HARRY VERNEY denied that the people 01
England were hostile to the measure. He knew that

many petitions had been presented against it, but were
those petitions spontaneously sent ? Were they not sent
in consequence of suggestions from others? They seemed
to come unly from a few places, and to be the offspring of

a few men.
Mr. HALL DARE took it upon himself to deny that
the people of England were against the measure. He
disliked the modification in the courtmartial clause, be-
cause they destroyed the . fficacy, but left all the odium of
the Bill. He would, nevertheless, support it.
Mr. RIT YEN regretted that this first step should
be taken to destroy the Union between the two countries.
He protested against the Bill, and would resist it to the
last.

31r. BARRON would not detain the House, but would
briefly tase the last opportunity of protesting against a
measure so arbitrary and injurious as the present. li eland
had completely refuted the arguments brought forward in
support of the Bill —(Hear, and Oh, oh !) The osten-
sible case of his Majesty's Government was, that the
'nal by jury had completely failed in carrying the law
into execti Lin. The late a•sizes in Ireland had ti juin-
pliantly answered this assertior..— (Cheers from the Op-
VW+ Rion.) He protested against the Bill for these three
principles which it embodied—the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act—of the trial Ly jury—and the
a o,,gation of the right of public meeting, even fur the
purpose of petitioning.
Mr. G. YOUNG must say, with regard to the speeches
of the Right H,n. Gentlem.n, late Seeretary for Ireland,
that he could not congratulate hien on the purity of his
t e in
thongintroducingSO many acrimonious personalities as
he s t
had r (per to indulge tn.—(Hear.) He should
t proper
for the Rind reading.
Mr. WARD (St. Albans) attacked the Hon. Member
for Bath (Mr. Roebuck), who, in his opinion, would not
l
h ive the slightest scruples in throwing the whole country
into confusion to verify a proposition in the Westminster
Review.—(Oh, oh! great confusion.) Mr. S;e• le
even, who was such a prominent agitator in Ireland, would
find himself distanced by the boundless extravagance of
the Hon. Member for Bath. The Hon. Gentleman then
efet red to the petitions presented to the House against
the Bill. The petitions from England ai.d Scoiland had
emanated merely from the Political Unions, and they well
knew how they were got up. But where, he would ask,

were the numerous assemblages that congregated last year
on another subject ?.—where the crowd, who, last year.
offered up their grateful incense to the Hon. Member for
Middlesex ? He denied that there bad been any strong
or general expression of the feeling of the people of Eng-
land avainst this measure. The people of England had
been silent, because they did not regard.—(Hear, bear.)
Good, sound, stern, English common sense—(Hear, bear)
—had led them to participate in the feelings of his Ma•
jesty's Ministers.
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL said, the Hon. Mein•
her had stated that, out of the places which had petitioned
against the Irish Coercive Bill, only fifty were from
places in England, and that these were all from places in
which there were Political Unions. Now these very
Political Unions, now decried, were, a year azo, the
means of maintaining Ministers in office. lie knew an
individual who, at that period, had met a party that had
just left one of his Majesty's Alinisters with fifty franks for
the purpose of writing letters to the leaders of the different
Politica! Unions in the country. These letters were written
and received ; and in consequence of these letters, the
movement at that time took place.--( Hear, hear, and
cries of " Name.") He was re idy with the name. He
never stated a fact in that House of which he could not
give proof. He would mention she name to any one of hie
Majesty's Mini ters, and there were Members in that House
who knew it to be the fact. He tltrught the observations
of the Hon. Member for St. Ahans, with respect to
Members who were absent, extrem-ly ungenerous.
Mr. WARD had believed the Hon. Member for Bath
to he present.
Mr. LAMONT made some observations in support of
the Bill, which were not beard in the gallery.
Mr. YIUME rose to reply to some observations of the
Hon. Member for St. Albans. The Hon. Member had
pronounced the speech which he had evidently prepared,
and which he bed probably practised before the glass—
(A laugh, and cries of " Order!")—with a degree of as-
surance—(Order, order)—yes, he would repeat it, with
a degree of assurance—nay, he would go further, al-
though, perhaps, the Noble Lord who called him to order
might term that assurance modesty. In the language,
then, of the Noble Lord, he could only assure the House,
that a more modest, well looking, well-behaved gentle-
man, performing his part with modest confidence, he (Mr.
Hume) had never seen. He could assure the Hon. Alem-
b-o. for St. Albant, that if there was any part of his (Mr.
flume's) conduct which he did not regret, it was bring-
ing the present Ministers into office, however much they
had disappointed him ; and if lie were favoured with the
good opinion of the populace, as the Hon. Member for
St. Albans was pleased to call the people, it was perhap•
because he always supported what he considered a good
cause ; and did not, like that Hon. Member, call the same
instrument at one time good, and at another bad, as it
suited his purpose. If the Hon. Member thought that
'he people of England could view such a proceeding with
indifference, much less with approbation, he (Mr. Hume)
could not go airing with him. He thought that the Hon.
Alember maligned the people of England; and he was
confirmed in that opinion when he saw laid on the table
above six hundred and fifty petitions against the measure,
signed by above 600,000 persons. Although he had no
hope that the division would be adverse to the Bill, he had
been desirous of giving it this last kick.—(A laugh.)
Mr. WARE) explained.
Mr. DOMINICK BROWNE regretted that he was
compelled to give his consent to such a Bill; but he felt
that it was indispensably necessary to the restoration of
peace in Ireland.
Mr. PEIER supported the Bill, although he admitted
that it was of a vely arbitrary character, and that nothing
but necessity could justify it.
Mr. BELLEW did not deny that Ireland was in a state
of partial disorganization; but he maintained that to
agree to such a Bill was not the way to restore it to
order.—(Laughing, and cries of " Question.") The Bill
would have no other effect than to increase a spirit of
rancour between the upper and lower classes in Ireland.—
(" Question.")
Sir J. TYRRELL chiefly rose for the purpose of
stating his surprise that the members of his Majesty's Go-
vernment should have sat silent under the accusation
made against them by the Hon. and Learned Member fur
Tral,e. That accusation was, that at a time when their
remaining in office was doubtful, they had recommended
the agitation of Political Unions throughout the country.
He hoped that his Majesty's Ministers would not ahow
that debate to close before they gave a distinct disavowal
to the charge made against them.—(Coughing, and cries'
of " Question.")
Mr. E. RUTHVEN, as an Irishman, would vote ngainst
this peculiar act of oppression and aggression against his
country.—(A very stange and loud species of hiccup from
under the gallery on the Ministerial side of the House, and
cries of " Question.") There were gentlemen very loud in
their cries of " Question."—(Hiccup repeated louder than
before.) The Hon. Member, amid much noise and con-
fusion, concluded with saying, that at that late hour of
the deba e, he would do nothing more than protest most
solemnly against this crying innovation of the Constitu ion
contemplated by Government in wishing to pass the pre-
sent atrocious measure.
Mr. O'CONNELL did not rise to fawn or cringe to
that House—he did not rise to supplicate it to be merciful
towards that nation to which he belonged—towards that
nation which, though subject to England, yet was distinct
from it.—(No, no.) It was a distinct nation—it was
treated as such by this country, as would be proved by
histry, and by seven hundred years of tyranny. He
called upon that House, as they valued the liberty of Eng-
land, not to allow the present infernal. Bill to pass. In it
was involved the liberties of England--the liberty of the
press, dn (1 of every other institurion dear to Englishmen.
The nefarious Bill, it was true, was mitigated, hut, even in
its mitigated shape, it contained horrors enough to insult,

in the strongest manner, the people of his country. There
remained still enough of those horrible and insulting
clauses, fur there remained those which put down the
tight of petitioning—which put down political agitation
—which made them both offences, not punishahle by
the ordinary tribunals, but by what be would call
revoluti,olary ones. The Honout able Member for St.
Album; had stated that there had been only fifty petitions
sent to that House by the English people against the
present coercive measure. There had been seventy,
and it was surprising there were so many, since the lead-
log English Press had teen either shamefully silent, or
brutally hostile on that measure. What wonder was it
then that its case should have produced but little effect
upon the people of England ? The Bill was divided into
two great parts; the one was to extinguish political agi-
tation, and the other to do away with predial agitation.
Melancholy frets pri,ved, unfortunately, that the latter
requited a remedy ; but as to the former, no case was
made out that the part of the 811 which related to it
was necessary. Against that part of the Bill he pro-
tested, in the name of the Irish people, and in the face of
Heaven. He protested against the power granted to the
Lord Lieutenant to prevent meetings, no matter for what
purpose they might be convened. All he asked for his
country was justice; and as long as the present Govern-
ment were unjust towards her, he laughed to scorn their
promised generosity. Why he strenuously objected to the
power granted to the Lord Lieutenant to prevent meet-
ings was, that there were grievances to be redressed in
his country, and that one of the ways to remedy them
was by petitions, emanating from large assemblies. He
would ask arty one to say that there were not grievances
in Ireland, and that it was not a suffering. country,
more tha❑ any other. No one could say so; and no one
could deny that, if ever a country required political agi-
tation, it was the country to which he belonged. He had
another question to ask. Could any one point out a sin-
gle instance in which the Irish, in their agitation, had
made mention of a sinOe grievance which did not exist,
or in which they even exaggerated any grievance ? He
was sure that no one could. If they put down agitation,
they would extinguish the very principle of the C ,nstrtu-
tion—a principle be admitted which might be carried too
far—which brought one Monarch to the scaffold, and
drove another from the country. If their country had
not been oppressed—if she had not been betrayed and mis-
governed, she would never have complained, nor would
he and others ever have agitated. Ministers had profess d
touch, and promised much for Ireland, but they had done
nothing, literally nothing, fur her. To be sure the Irish
Reform Bill followed in the train of the Eitglish one, hut
it was of a very different character, bring narrow, insuf-
ficient, and oligarchical—raising the price of treedom five
. . . .

fold over this country. Ireland had an Administration
that had deceived her, which, after all its professions,
voted for the Conservative candidates for the city of Dub-
lin. He treated with scorn the puny and pitiful assertions

that grievances were not to be comtilamed of their
redrtss was not to be agitated for. In such cases re-
monstrances could not be too strong—agitation could
not be too violent to show the world with what
the people suffered. There were two frightful
Injustice their fair claims were met, and under what
in this Bill. The one which did away with
eTtylrarivaasnlensbyy Jury. and which he had called upon them to
„apt,,e. They called it a courtmartial—a mere nick-
name—but he stigmatized it as a revolutionary tribunal.
_( Hkar, hear.) What, in the name of Heaven, was
it, then, if it was not a revolutionary tribunal? It an-
nihilated the Trial by Jury—it drove the Judge from
the bench--that man who, from exoerience, could weigh
the nice and delicate puints of a case—who could dis-
criminate between the straightforward testimony gad the

suborned evidence—who could see dainty t°,lo, P I
the justice or injustice of the accusation. It
this man, who was free, unshackled, unprejoalsi
;
clew no previous opinions to control the or t.,,
his duty. They did away with that which' ,
,Ft
sacred than the throne itself; for which t%
reigned, their Lords deliberated, their
sembled.—( Hear, hear.) All this was done fie
six officers might usurp the functions of the
the land—might annihilate the protection vPoti
gave to innocence, and attempt to unravel toys
and administer the provisions of six coniplicate.
Parliament. He contended that no case had
out for such tyranny—for giving such frightful
.11
sponsible power to military men. He decieriv
solemnly that Ministers had not half the !tors
had to put down predial agitaticra and dat
This was not the way they ought to be
be merely co-equal in name. He prayed to bitcv
when repeal came—and come it now must--(i,.
they could never stay it, they could not even 7,,,t
so—that it might come through peaceful ageweP„li
through oceans of blood. If ever he had doate
of its success, that Bill—that infamous Bill---t`:to
which it h d been received by the House—the 0160;
which its opponents had been treated—the Peter
They had been subjected to—the yells one of 104
that night been greeted wi,h—yells not fit fir anf
where decency was thought of—(Cheers from tlas,e,
tion, echoed by the Ministerial Benchei)--311 the
dissipated his doubts, and told him of its cell
ot
early triumph —(Cheers.) Did they think Go
would be forgotten—did they suppose their echa
reach the pl line of his injured and insulted carnaleis
they would not be whispered in her green va'4„l,
heard from her lofty hills ?.--(Cheers.) Oht t'',f
be heard there—yes, and they would not be forg,
The youth of Ireland would bound with indignan at
would say, We are eight millions, and you tree:,
tyt
°tor' Guernseya
certain party as though we were no more to your country tli!, off
loaarrtoyf iJersey.ntha 1111oueseh.ad been all
eh!: tie'e'edeteedt(,,
them for years. He would not contend with thenfjedo',
if he did it should not be in hostility. He appealed'
now. They had a deeper interest in their native gba
that of party, and they must feel that there 014,d
so prejudicial—so mischievous—so distressing,;oe,
bad passions between man and man. Let that esei
I rive when their mutual prejudices could be overee.o;i
their evil passions set at rest, and they could then 'o;tl6
bold and unanswerable tone, We want justieetfet!,'
have equal ty. Ministers might then legislate
....et.
land, but Irishmen would legislate for themselre9;ool6
hear.) To be sure it might be said they Wet;hey
millions—that they were divided ; but then topli
be eight millions, when the fears of some and the fOr
prejudices of others had been conquered il
by thel
reason and of truth,—(Cheers.) He had done ant
—he stood acquitted to his conscience and lii'
he had opposed this measure throughout, and alfrd
protested against it as harsh, oppressive, 'tack; se)"
onjust7-as eat rblishing an infamous precedent, 'ld t
ting crime against crime—as tyrannous, cruelly e e
ef'
dictively tyrannous.—(Cheers ) In the tamiodt
country, he asked for justice. Talk of a Un"'ne'opti
Ireland'f
hy, were there not 105 Members from Ireland'
from England ? And yet they talked so loudlY ntba
He implored them to desist—to pause even at d bit
hour at the threshold, and to change this harsh %jib!
measure for one of inquiry. Refuse it if they cv.tit
let Ireland see what a conciliatory Governo`
were.—(Heir, hear ) he
Lord ALTHORP was inaudible at first, front the
bee of strangers leaving the gallery. We enders te
_ieege
to be contradicting, as far as his own know „o'
some statements which had been made in the en,stY,
evening by the Hon. Member for ''rater. Flit,beeol
then proceeded to say, that it had been stated in • oioli
of the evening, that in consequence of the tiee,oll
Juries at the late assizes, no coercive measure "oi
necessary. What, however, was the consealLlceandf
decision ? Had crime diminished, or weerhie eve(
perty more secure? Crime was as great e:ehea
amount—life and property equally insecure as fog
Bill was brought in. An Hon. Member, on
evening, had instanced as a good sign that sud in
peasantry hid brought in the parties cone"nes 001,
atrocious murder of Mr. Leonard ; but, he viage (1;
say, he had been misinformed on the subject- se esiO
Althorp) bad received a letter from the 11'0 f eel°
the county, which stated that a large numb o
° .he tot
had assembled at the funeral, and at that tun regrett
tdeterso, s
ay,
,wtehreer
ea rwreasst endo I
pp by
.411,1)ef police.that
a l Thwohererree,rf:afen'e:iio,inintiouce,'
minds of the peasantry which they
Indeed, in this particular outrage there was e
victim
show that others beside the one unfortunate iLesrf
been marked out fur destruction. The 11" n•
Member for Duhlin said flea the Bill had been --:ore 4'
mitigated, but still it was sufficiently severe and (;eotf
to make him oppose it. If the means were su that b
the end he entirely concurred in any al'eratinn' ,rte
been or (emits have been made ; but be believed 1,460ie
stead of being rendered inadequa.e, ie was moreLeArlir
after the alterations than before. The Hon. ande solo
Member spoke of these alterations as if there viers orf,
thing disgraceful in their being allowed. What 'veto °,
he would ask, discreditable in Ministers listening art/
gestions, and taking away the more uneongenat, opt
the Bill—in striking out the more violent reveal deatO
vided they left it sufficiently strong to effect
Ales
object?—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Ne"-it perta.o
attacked his Right Hon. Friend for indulging tot:
alities, and though he (Lord Althorp) did not nt,eiii",,
much on this point, least of all to hurt the Hon. an pot,
ed Member's feelings, still he must say that lit,eieseotti;
thought he was the man to make complaints on t''0,111;
—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member had°,;tiaa
with regard to political agitaion, to the Prre,,, oat
meetings, end such matters, this Bill was entireVoetOt
cessary. If, however, he would appeal to tleterf,;,
the large majority would tell bin. that of 8i"„
was. the part most wanted, and most likely
coil to the country in its results.—( Loud cheer.joad,
Hon. and Learned Member talked of the water, nfil eiteir
but he censidered that there could be no real liber!),jor
,
out peace.—(Cheers.) He (Lord Althorp) nittieic P
that one of the great merits of liberty was, this
justice tow
veled peace for all, and security for all andi
yflo
—not that one side only should he heard---(Cheer:O
that one party alone should be dominant—not tha-ielstl'•
should be denounced for having expressed to a lef dee':
assembly the honest convictions of his tnind—CLan and
—but that all should be entitled to their opini
the expression of them without molestation and
dread.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned ' f'
alte
asked if there was ever a country which a° -
quirreede vaegr
itavytiao,inaacsolurnetlaryndw.
hielhieso( Lomrtuf
cAti 1 trheogriii,iejed
411.101;
and repose?—(Loud cheets.) He said Irel3a
never be injured but by her own sons ; and I;ecbee,,lo9'
Althorp) agreed most fully with
All Iceland's real grievances had been freetY„-ab °,4(
by the Government and the Parliament, and ',it
steadily bent on applying proper remedies to thern'peleo,
memory of the Hon. and Learned Member forjdotv
must be rather short, for he stated that Minister s /I'ol
nothing for her, when it so happened that 1. h
eve
Member himself had expressed his approval o )
measures determined on by them.—(Heir, hear;fitr°o(
reason why these measures were not in a more
sorts it
condition was to be found in the state of the hiret
that House. The Hon. and Learned Member fuilgo reachf
new system of national education, which he still
.° sea
lauded, as entirely removing one great grievance
retloh9il
also forgot the Subletting Act, the excellent
iier
which he (Mr. O'Connell) stated only the °,thorp)'4
hid been greatly underrated by himself (Lord Alt j (Rol
(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman ha_betet..,
that there was, or could be, any connection "sof Ph;
between political agitation and predial outrage. that te
(Lord Althorp) would not go so far as to eaY
este rh,,
intent and purpose of political agitation was to cr. it
predial disturbances, but he would maintain 73,,,ePii
impossible to irritate a population, by constant
on their real and supposed grievances, with.nuwas aPi
such results.—(Cheers.) He admitted that it, 0004,e
that it should be found necessary to deprive vetted
trial by jury, but it was still more to bs regretdteeerije
a country should be in a situation such 39_1 tbd,.
in a petition which he then held in his hand fr?",,iltentio
gistrates and tines al persons in the county. of
The petitioners stated that " they firmly believed il'.'re,ser,
measure, introduced into Parliement for the suPeF_, frfit
of the disturbances in Ireland, would restore
.punerltor
bt
thorn, when compared with the lawle-s despotic
statedr."
they were at present exposed."—(Hear..) They Heath
carding the result of the assizes, of which the
seemed to expect much, that " they deplored "7.„eet%
suit of the assizes was not such as they had 0,2
The assizes at Kilkenny, where vast numbers
who created the distut bances were eenteneed,nave ,
tieished ; and it was expected that
Th it, hove" ,etift
'tome effect on the disturbances. • • I and
not the case. 'I he same system of tyrannical t
_he
conduct continued unabated, particularly agains(?o.ro
.nth defenceless."—(Cheers.) That was the at prtio
these who lived in the country, and wh t were u son fe
ht
0 judge of the of of the Bill. He thong
cd
be unnecessary for him, after the long-contiuu ow
which they had had, to say any more upon the
they would e. 1.4.,

It bid b
aware of
itinn...—
Ai goo]
rose to a,
, After
For
For
The B

'‘Cp
•
'tord:eithal
' it
13;11
4 Th
t 1.440,tehe

filia
Land
t. he
W4I
Ing in
4i, h,
pa~
ail I,e
rC.t:Y h
""I.)

It 13awarad
"eel 80 fully 'discussed already, that he was not
attire. y points in it which required further expla-
--(Cheers.)
rove to
A 9 800 n as the Noble Lord sot down, several Members
tion address the House,
After amidst loud cries of " (Ines-
queiinon ;" "Divide."
N
a few words from Mr. BARRON and Colonel
itiorrit the House divided, when there For the
the third reading • 345
For Mr, Cobbett'samendment. B6
Th Majority —9.5)
The "ill vi,s then read a third time arid passed.
On ft STAFFORD BRIBERY BILL.
Me.'ii,"%tno•inn that this Bill he recd a third time,
mt „," INN objected to it.
dt. r-LLICE thought that there ought to be no further
Str R.
hers, KNATCHBULL said that many [lon. Mem.
118:1' ;Is felt an interest in the Bill, had left the House
Cortdt-i3 impression that it would not come on.
Metribtr trllc-saitrox and Mr. PRYME hoped that the Hon.
111 r, would not postpone it.
,I.LICE
as the was unwilling to bring the discussion
standing H. n. Member said that therewas an under-
After to the enntrarv.—(" No, no," and Go op.
ptr),,,eerir a desultory conversation, it was determined to
" with the third leading of the Bill.
Alie
question being put,
e. WYNN °hinted to the principle. of this Bill.
telt :Pefectly different from the Bill for which leave had
141:fgiven to bring in, and which was a Bill for the put:-
ril)fording an indemnity, to all persons concerned in
erFt and not who should give evidence as to the
tat th}'. in thmmelves or others, at the Stafbird election.
I"ade Billie as it st d s one which would prove an
tihenini,ll,..e,atian to all persons who had been guilty of
gitian‘ "'" corruption at the Stafford election, whether
el,ttiso 'vldence or not, and whether as relating to this
tt„„_nnar not. This was so perfectly at variance
toiith
nstitutional principle that he could not consent
gave
pia ELLICE contended, that without the House ga
VenThifieation, it would be utterly impossible to ob.
laat requisite evidence as to the proceedings of t e
Itcoul L'un; and to let it pass over would be monstrous
vot,„ hasd proved that not less than 524 nut of 5.-6
bt : e
l, bought direct evidence could not
ilesseB') tit° their votes without the security to the wit-
Nut& this Bill would give. This was no ex parte
104g,pri?'' had been stated, for the most barefaced
.and
electhetacti`ed corruption of this borough was as nworious
"1.4 at nonn-day. One candidate, at a former
rases Ins'(j,„ Paid 7,006/., but as the opposing candidate
agitated he, of course, got in. A question of bribery
-'er to the in this case ; half the expenses were paid
11r, stle'aehts, and it was prevented.
r°,4,114,A'W contended that this Bill would defeat
. its
15"4e1711iyAfirii"sea,1%,lemberwho had sot in by bribery, might
toqupt('lr by giving evidenceb against those whom
.
111iii-NlleEsaid a few wordsi in reply.
into ;he alp Ciit'll;uPl; )(ND desire mrd thei Bto
pa e an investigation
,: teesire t
do ' read "one made against the borough of Stafford.
Pl's 4 third time. On the question that the Bill
h 'sle t TNN moved that it be inserted in the
.0 the Bill was founded upon the allegations of
kr44 of S 0 * Edward Ellice, that bribery existed in the
. ttifford.
11-11,1'l'dILLICE was sorry that such a course should be
h•- to foil' "is Right Hon. Friend, which would compel,
h a similar course on all Bi Is brought
in by
teNett ''o n, Friend. The proposition was plainly in.
After' eatgs ridicule on the Bill.
he
il `rotspacted conversation,
4ffi WYN withdrew his amendment, though
dint
jed thN
at thei
House was passing the Bill in a
with
nt Oranner, which would cover the House 1 e
hieitha' enlendment in the preamble, leaving out the
''t is aliNed
s agreed to.
as
tit 6 w
,ien passed.
' YNN proposed an amendment to the
ti'
1"-"
wa a reed to, and the Bill ordered to be cat-
the Loid'a g
tilp Oth •
',till," Orders of the day were then disposed of, and
adiournt-d at. two o'clock.
WESTMINSTER ELECTION.

At
:t"P)1,4,,,T°,t numercus meeting— of electors of We•emin-
t;44-,,,' Yesterday evenne, at Richardson's Hotel, Co-
ie
cliti "it Mr. DE \ FAR was unanimously called to
Si Jr.
Iz'''do:\v," Hontrousn's address having been read to the
1 Piti4re.tlL,l' (of St. Martin's) said, he arose with ereat
41°1.4447 es;,,l'irpse a resolu:ion. He felt it his duty to do
• hi, jilt been in 'Y, as
.he was a convert. He had not yes.
rob,. tatjan..,4 condition to state. accurately respecting
a ; 14ted ,i, ) hut after giving it his best attention, he. was
'll:'n, the '"at Sir John Hohhouse deserved, on this ~c-idefti',ltet,Jvia:,
idefti',Itet,Jvia:, support of h the electors.—( Hear, hear. )
shown', lig.hu_nti_ at no .an.gevirtiftecri.rcumstances could
He had always
gasp's I•leAtita d honourable tit,. •
not h,char ' the uneemprnmising friend. of liberty. A
-1
itter Was , he judged of not in insulated cases,
'`lncs °Pinin from °
1,,,,i -rf,,, -n, extracts from his .
I;4^ nija'saeck His behaviour to his constituent.
ticits'l'''n 4'-'t aft 1,1 kind,and friendly, on the many
"I
' " ' '''
necessary to meet
lif ,htio,„ whlch it had been lately
POI ' and other bodies of them ; and although
thh4tßi' ht properly refused, on the late occasion, to
c., he tra,L"lf, he had abundantly show.n by his actions
(I,)v ''''t her't anxious to promote their welfare. He
the
the ':;',4 they congratulating the people of Ireland
'44454 ;,,Y,i ha.d just received ; and he would add, on
Petty only" "rifles, that the Irish Members themselvesfo.
4,0,,,,,‘ tilt,.. Pccfectly satisfied, but delighted at the p
t,tkivtl,ll,;foillresented to them.—(Cheers.). He then
4 It
Ini °wing resolution :—" That the meeting, II 4 coosid • • and conduct of Sir
orkt re,41.1,e
,eration the serv" es ' . and i'',f,ClOff r'. view with satisfaction his accession to the
N,4e'ef th 'crctary for Ireland, in the confident hope
1' net, ),,,f a it will be found to promote equally h.
ll'i.f,,e p.the, ~,cernment and the welfare and happt-
pc,' ' 14:Pie of Ireland."
aPealtide ,'' (1.4 St. James's), in seconding the motion;
'het'4 1..: 11:'„ti',r1°nY to the independence of the last
E,,,' ' 1,,1, 'aa,i on public grounds he shoul I
Privatesun-
'llvSattti,444,lli.oldiouspe.,
.beca.use he was a Member of
''at e„ t,lng Administration.—(Hear, bee!. ),,,..Onn,
„et t ''' due, t',tifiti, as a citizen of Westmmstt_t,
.1
local
:(4111:1; of tel for his great exertions in their l
'lll)Dor;44° 4,1401 he gave several
.ins.ances, he was
Al ' great pleasure in affardlng him his hearty
Irliq /s'ok4
ii.''', tt," (of St. Anne's) supported the resolution,
h01,,,i0411,41:: carried unanimously. .
s.n a
re-
-I,?itu,,, to 0, 1 (of St. Margaret's), in proposing
pgroceec
S'ne 4.iatqy ;'" etrect—" That this
.m.eeti to
secure'
e,°ctiti,,,,'..! take the most energetic
measuresook occasion to
tert,['t tha," of S:r John Hob
4 lib,'" of p` the question of ''w°:uheatth—took
san independent
'4 'd4lq„ 4citament did right in accepting office under
cilill 4ver m b d been already twice triumphantly
ta,r 1, , thf ~,n -mut
CaS• John Hobhouse by the electors
,-,iyeAiria - person o. ir .
ni th ihR i Cr,t The question now teas, has he done
de,,,, " 04,4,the office lie has ouitteu, or is 'there anything
vi :\lll- l', has accepted, which would render bun less
an4`,111,4 tl-1 ''' their continued confidence? He was con-
-14411 ''''N'ita* wa, not.—(Cheers.) If there had, he, as
sir, ll„,ent elector, would not be the man to support
far ;e
lent
"come
neans of knowing that his conduct,
htl\,ll,;'Clu(llQle,eresitre Minister, had given universal satis-
IL" ''''', iti the (St. Clement's) seconded the resolution.
,Ict,,'4,t Iti'„" li'een't changes a proof of the wisdom of
"(M.4,, 44 blt in choosig such a friend to liberty to
Wow., ' or, .".ani„
( 4 1-.,, that . Looking at his past conduct, he
**--"'Pol kat], t in, future career, with regard to. them,
Alter 144 `tby firmness, mildness, and conciliation.
/Va 9 qtr ff„,.l
Sir r''d I, Nlatics from Mr. Cnouctr, the resolution
wa, jot. eatii
, rti,4t ets 4 Otom,iy,
L"Piajoi Wai'e•li"nonse here entered the room, and
~e, 'at nowt,, e,, the received by the meeting. He began ilia ,e,:.'" Ply'" nh•eting the circumstances under which
hlbinser`,," as regarded them, which had caused a
,''ea triu. Tont';',la the course formerly practised in West-
h.!. ,'llice-,,4:l)hialiti.PYL Lad approved his being in office had
IV- 4'51.5 41:;!, itVouniwn on that occasion ; and if he were
4r
he h 4114 d 4 d scorn to matter little to what office
~4„t4re 4,141 ~tie,,"*-( Hear.) To that of Sec, etary.aant-i
Vtion
tvPiett,,,t-',:_ded--to another, a more airduiao,uvs,
ti,t.ir old() ; ?Li. thn'', as Chief Secretary of t the , Y 1,4,1 P'lll,l, "Y thought it would be consisetent"vvith
thl.i.'re to :..11,0tvr, that )teen confirtned
.by the late election,
ee!tpoliii:"„!,tv itt,
to ,kti 110 objection to a Repre..ennd-
i_o)uure
t( k,:rt,,,,,n........:?n0i1te the service of the people,uld not
,r4:1•If hiLleaad
tt.l, tatienshe cheering.). He could
~w
ct 4 na,r,t;ir 4avlrib,,,c,hsjire
till,:me whichcirlrium.stalndc,e,soly r'
on that
ll'hhyit'i h. c Wediiiii,ir:t?'o4ll 144:ins,
constituents.—(Hear,
e himselft()u
etavri.)
t 4, '"ig it, thew`' that n.l, Lonstauents.—(llear, h
or'n) h,. f,t, if he thong ht there had been
htia all Le'r) Prized
~ Which would separate him from
it,ity i,l h. ivds, tba`t4at cunfidence Which had m..de
elk) .i!', eyrs i,
.he. should deem any acquisit on
re or 1, uer, h's 2, 't Involved such a condition.--
" offle u 4cen 50 .
' tau, , cne misapprehension on ti e
6 15114 out of London. He Lad L 9
I