The Sun.
London, England, 1833-12-12 00:00:00

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SIPPING INTELLIGENCE-(THIS DAY.)

FROM LLOYD'S.
DFC. I I.—Wintl N.\%'., strong brerzes.—Ar-
t,4 the Diana, White, from the Cape of Good Hope;
t
brothers, Davis, from Madeira. Arrived from the
lt and remains, the Lord of the Isles, for Bengal.
t:itTsmouTir, DEC. U.-Wind W. to N.W., bard
4 • with heavy squalls.
LY)AtOUTH, DEC. W.-Wind \V.—Arrived the Cog-
Olitehell, from Youghal, leaky, and bound to Ports-

,41.14 OuT ir , DEC. 10.—Wind W., fresh breezes.
t'Uteaoer, Dec. 10.—Arrived the Resolution, Rut-
'l4 •
enl Quebec.
.AaGATE, DEC. 11.—Arrived the Jean, Goldie, from
"4•lpore ; Usk, Hill, from Buenos Ayres; and Vlades-
'Reggio, from Trieste.
c''', St SGIA T E , Dec. 11.—Arrived the Peter and Re-
'k, tread, from Cork.
l,uovett, DEC. 11.—Arrived off port the Ellen, Dixon,
l' Batavia.
I.°wes, DEC. 11.—Arrived the Baltieum, Ingenson,
411411RaTtAni bouurTotH,
, lea.p kiyc. 1 0
...... ,
°)from Batavia. Arlived off port the Jeffer-
Ilkszy,Dec. 10.—Arrived the Phoenix, Picot, and Me-
Russell, from Rio Janeiro ; P. R. C., Le Bas, from
''hangel; Swift Duke, Lane, from Labradore ; Ea-
*le, Dupre, from Newfoundland ; and Adventure,
ue, from Lisbon.
~
l'oote, Dec. 10.—Arrived the Elizabeth, Hutchins,
'4l Lisbon.
11RISTOL, DEC. 11.—Arrived the Golden, Grove, from
7nerara ; Three Sisters, Dyer, from Seville ; Water
,r'teh, from Smyrna ; and Elizabeth, Brown, from

Pqto.
tlmEoEta, DEc. 10.—Arrived the Resolution, Rutter,
Queb.e.
LIVERPOOL, DEC. 10.—Arrived the Ewen, Hunter,
Pernambuco; Grace Brown, Higgins, from Sa-
Illhah ; Thomas, Jones, from Charleston ; and Poca-
4lttes, West, from Philadelphia. Off port the Morgiana,
,141 Bengal ; Janet, Irat Pol, from Batavia ; Hutchin-
-11 Inch, from Pernambuco ; Cicely, Sewell, and Esther,
Pule, from Montreal ; Artemis, Sparks, from Quebec ;
ma Minerva, Metcalf, from Bombay.
GREENocK, DEC. 9.—Arrived the Wilhelmina, Dunear,
'°4l Demerara ; Earl Dalhousie, Boyd,
1 and Albion,
Id, from Quebec ; Quebec, Bixter, from Dalhousie ;
Arrow, Mowbray, from Lisbon.

The Earl of Aberdeen, Lawson, from Quebec to Bel-
-14. is on shore in Dundrum Bav, and full of water.
The Friendship, M‘Donaltl, bound to Newcastle, is on
"te near Peterhead, and it is feared will be wrecked.
;the Thomas Wallace, Finley, bound to Quebec, was
Peked in the River Sr. Lawrence on the 15th ult.—five
the crew drowned.
The Miser, Sprurgem, from Bordeaux to Quebec, is
"'eked on Flat Island, Newfoundland—crew saved.
I The Michael, Wickham, from Wexford, upset in Wex-
-4 Bar on the Bth inst., and it was feared the vessel and
'lto would be lost.
The Selestria, from Archangel to Rotterdam, put into
'lktello Bay, with lose of boats, bulwarks, &c.

Lount of
pl iintiff
tit'ed to
nsidered
nt, that. ,
time of
.1 letter
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i ter 1.14

TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.

SIR,—As personal character is dear to every man, may
I solicit, as a matter of public justice, a small space in
your columns, in vindication of myself from the asser-
tions made by Mr. Patrick Grant with reference to me
yesterday in the Court of King's Bench ? I would not
have asked this favour, but that I could not reply to them
in Court, being no party to the information against the
defendants, not one of whom, either by themselves or
their Counsel, ventured to cross-examine me.
It is unfortunately too notorious that differences have
long existed between Mr. P. Grant and myself. As these
related chiefly to what may be considered private matters,
I had no wish to obtrude myself nn the public merely to
deny false statements which Mr. Grant found it convenient
to publish against me in reference to The Sun newspaper.
lint as, after a lapse of two years, during which these
falsehoods have been sedulously circulated in every
variety of form and malignity, without eliciting any reply
from me, Mr. Grant, presuming on my forbearance,
has deemed it safe to re-assert them in a Court of Justice,
I cannot but think that my continuing any longer silent
may he construed into an admission of their correctness,
and I therefore request, in fairness, the publication of the
following answer :
Mr. Grant has stated in his pamphlet, and re-asserted
in his speech, that " he found me and my family in rags—
that he rescued me from penury—and raised me from a
state of abject destitution, to a situation of considerable
eminence and emolument, namely, the Editorship and Ma-
nagement of The Sun newspaper;—that he gave me the
whole administration and outlay of sums amounting to be-
tween 10,0001. and 15,000/., and that for such kindness
I had requited him by turning him out of his property—
in short, that I had swindled and robbed him." In ano-
ther plaee he estimates the property embarked at 20,0001.
Now these are very grave charges, if true ; but they
are false. I was neither in poverty nor rags when Mr.
Grant sought me—l did not seek him. My talents, such
as they were, recommended me to his attention in prefe-
rence to several others with whom he was then in treaty.
I was-in the receipt of upwards of 3001. a year at the time
of being first introduced to Mr. Grant, and had previous'y
conducted a Sunday paper (the Representative), of which
I was half proprietor. Before I entered on the duties of
the situation I was invited to his table repeatedly ; and
was such behaviour, on Mr. Grant's part, consonant with
his notions of propriety, if I were in rags ? Then, as to
the large expenditure, though I conducted the paper, I
had not the charge of the money until I became a partner ;
nor did Mr. Grant expend 20,0001., nor even 15,0001.
on the paper, as these items will show.
In March 1826 Mr. Grant purchased The Sun for
500 guineas. From that period till the 12th Janual y,
1828, there were expended (including the purchase-
money) 9,252/. Os. 11d., which amount is copied from
the regular account hook kept by Mr. Waller Clifton, late
Secretary to the Victualling-office, who assisted in the
Paper, acted as Mr. Grant's co-proprietor, and paid the
moneys weekly up to that time, when be and Mr. Grant

separated.
From the 12th January till 24th June, 1828, there
were expended, under Mr. Grant's and my direction the
further sum of 1,635/. 9s. 4d., making in all 10,8901.
10.. 3d., which is the whole amount of money advanced
by Mr. Grant, or expended on The Sun newspaper till
I became a partner. If interest be charged on the above
capital, it will not amount altogether to more than about
12,0001., and here is the utmost limit of the fortune em-
barked.
Mr. Grant has stated that only 6,0001. had been proved
under the Commission ; but the schedule of his debts, in
his own handwriting, makes the amount about 15,000/.
Now, according to his own showing, his speculation in
The Sun could not have been the sole cause of his mis-
fortune. But I abstain from stating more than is neces-
sary for my own justification.
The daily circulation of the paper was raised by my
management from 450 to about 1,800, and, subsequently
to his retirement, to upwards of 3,000.
Mr. Grant sold to me a quarter of the paper, for which
I paid him 2,000/. He even offered me a fifth part of it
gratuitously, "in consideration of my services"—but that
I declined, choosing rather to pay a fair proportion of the
loss incurred. From the period of nay becoming partner
the whole charge and management of the paper devolved
upon me, Mr. Grant never having advanced one shilling
afterwards.
Mr.. Grant's private embarrassments compelled him, in
1829, to leave England, by the advice of his friends and
relatives, in order to afford time to arrange with his cre-
ditors. Some were refractory, owing to his high con •
nections, and arrangement was found impracticable. During
his aftercare. strongly urged his relatives to purchase his
shares for .benefit of his family : the idea was entertained
for a time, but it was at length abandoned—partly from Mr.
Grant's own obstinacy—partly from motives of delicacy on
the part of his relatives—and partly from the amount of
his debts. For upwards of a year I succeeded in prevail-
ing on Mr. Alderman Winchester and Mr. Hill (the latter
of whom actually sent an execution into the house on ac-
count of Mr. Grant's private debts), to refrain from car-
rying their threats of bankruptcy into effect ; but vexed
at repeated delays, and the subsequent determination of
Mr. Grant's relatives to " let things take their course,"
Mr. Winchester struck a docquet against Mr. Grant.
When the day for choosing assignees was fixed, such
was my solicitude in the matter that I wrote to Mr.
Thornton, then residing at BriAton, to come to town,
in order that, being a private friend of the family, he
might be chosen assignee and protect their interests.
When the shares of the paper were for sale Mr. Grant
wished me to allow him to purchase them for 6,000/. To
this I objected, for two reason., that he had not the
means ; and if be had the means, that he ought to have
paid Mr. Winchester's debt, and so have avoided a bank-
ruptcy. Moreover, I found, from several circumst
to bean
ai es, n
that his habits rendered it unsafe for me, then, g
connected with him. Hence the whole cause of his hos-
tility towards me.
In March, 1832, Mr. Grant started the True Sun,
having previously published a variety of libels, which he
has often repeated in that paper. It is not my purpose
to recriminate on Mr. Grant by following his example;
but he has stated that the paper was started " as the most
direct means of doing justice to himself and to others."
Now, his shares and interest in The Sun then belonged
to his creditors, and in endeavouring to withdraw the sub-
scribers of The Sun to the True Sun, he was injuring
the property of his creditors—an odd way of doing them
justice.
Mr. Grant resorted to every species of charge against
me. My accounts were false, &c., and yet, after strict
investigation, they stood the ordeal of the Court of Chan-
cery. He tried to dispossess me of the management of
my own property, but failed.
Finally, after having denounced me by the most oppro-
brious terms, mark what follows :
The shares of The Sun were advertised for sale in the
Gazette for the 2d of April, 1833.
On the 20th March, 1833, I received the following
letter front a Mr. Thomas Wilkinson .--
Sir,—Though a perfect stranger to you, I take the liberty
of addressing you upon a subject materially affecting your
interests.
Circumstances have given me an intimate knowledge of the
firm and promising position that Mr. Grant has attained in his
present undertaking, however visionary it might at one moment
have appeared; I am warranted, therefore, in saying that a
proposition from him ought not to be disregarded. I am pre-
pared to make one on his behalf, and on behalf of those gen-
tlemen who are associated with him in his present undertaking,
relative to the approaching sale of The Sun newspaper, if you
will allow me an interview.
I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
THOMAS WILKINSON.
336, Strand, Wednesday, March 20, 18.33.
To Murdo Young, Esq.
To which I returned no answer.
Ou the 22d March, Mr. Wilkinson, and Mr. Westley,
newsvender, Strand, called on me, and made proposi-
tions for joining the True Sun to The Sun, which I, of
course, declined.
On the 24th I received the fo 'lowing letter from Mr.
Grant :
Sir,—Mr. Westley has informed me of what took place at
your interview on Friday.
I can easily understand why you should decline coming to
any decision without consulting your friends, but there is
surely no possible objection to our meeting at once, if you feel
inclined ; you can be noways fettered by merely discussing
what I feel convinced you would regret having rejected un-
heard.
politic to exhibit anxiety for this in-
It may not appear very
terview, but having to make up my mind in the course of to-
morrow or next day, upon an advantageous proposition in all.
other quarter, I shall do so with less hesitation after having
seen you.
No one is aware of my writing this letter, and, as far as I
am concerned, the very fact of our meeting may
be kept an
absolute secret.
I can meet you at the Rainbow Coffee-house, King-ferstreet,
Covent-garden, or any other place which you may pre, at
three o'clock precisely ; in fact, any hour will suit me from two
to five this afternoon.
I remain, your obedient servant,
March 2.4, 1833. PATRICK GRANT.
To M. Young, Esq. Envelope, marked " Private."
To which 1 instantly returned the following answer :
Sir,—Under present circumstances, and the recollection of

the past, I feel it impossible to meet you with any hope of mu-
tual advantage.
I must, therefore, decline putting you or myself to the un-
pleasant trial of an interview which can only be productive of
painful regrets,

I remain, your, obediently,
DI. YOUNG.

P. Grant, Esq., March 24, 1833.
On the 2d of April the three-fourth shares of The
Sun were sold by public auction in the Public Office
Court of Chancery, the 11 ster, Sir Giffin Wilson, him-
self presiding, pursuant to the express decree of the Lord
Chancellor.
At that Bile I became the purchaser,
none of the other
parties who had made the previous offers having appeared.
This is a simple narrative of facts for the correctness of
which I hold myself responsible.
I remain your obedient
lit slervant,
. YOUNG.
Sun-office, 112, Strand, Dec. 8, 1833.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.

[The writer of the following letter has certainly no claim
upon our courtesy. We for a long time treated his journal
civilly, and were rewarded in the way which our simple
good-nature deserved—we were assailed with constant
and rancorous abuse. But though we have thought it
necessary to throw aside this meek civility, which only
tempted certain weak and ill judging persons to insult us,
we still maintain our love of justice, and from that consi-
deration alone insert the following letter. All future
communications, on a matter so entirely personal, must
Leo advertisements.]
Sir,—As you leave not scrupled to give insertion in your
columns to a letter by Mr. Murdo Young on the subject
of his " differences" with me, you cannot, I presume, he-
sitate to insert the brief commentary which I shall now
make on that production.
Mr. Murdo Young alludes to the first period of our
acquaintance thus :—" I was neither in poverty nor rags
when Mr. Grant sought me ; I did not seek him. My
t dents, such as they were, recommended me to his atten-
tion in preference to several others with whom he was
then in treaty. I was in the receipt of upwardi of 3001.
a year at the time of being first introduced to Mr. Grant,
and had previously conducted a Sunday paper (the Repre-
sentative), of which I was half proprietor. Before I en-
tered on the duties of the situation, I was invited to his
table repeatedly; and was such behaviour, on Mr. Grant's I
part, consonant with his notions of propriety, if I were
in rags ? Then, as to the large expenditure, though I
conducted the paper, I had not the charge of the money
until I became a partner ; nor did Mr. Grant expend
20,000/., nor even 15,0001. on the paper, as these items
will show."
Mr. Young bad, it is true, been connected with the
Representative (not Mr. Murray's Representative) before
I knew him, but he was never the richer from that
source. The Representative, an obscure weekly paper,
in fact failed ; and, had Mr. Young been a man of pro-
perty, he must have lost all in that enterprise. Be that
as it may, however, his assertion of having had 300/. '
a year is pure " fudge." Many persons of unquestionable
veracity can testify to his miserable condition at that time.
But Mr. Young observes, with admirable simplicity,
that he could not have been in rags, otherwise I would
never have invited him to my table ! I certainly did not
invite him to bring his rags with him, but I paid a con-
siderable sum of money for him before lie was able to
undertake the duties to which he alludes.
As to the sums which I expended on The Sun news-
paper, I hold, in Mr. Young's own handwriting, a state-
tnent that the disbursements of which be had cognizance
exceeded 12,0001. There were besides, however, as lie
well knows, incidental expenses to the amount of several
thousands more.
After giving his version of the history of my bank-
ruptcy, Mr. Young observes—" When the shares of the
paper were for sale Mr. Grant wished me to allow him
to purchase them for 6,000/. To this I objected for two
reasons—that he had not the means, and, if he had the
means, that he ought to have paid Mr. Winchester's debt,
and so have avoided a bankruptcy. Moreover, I found,
from several circumstances, that his habits rendered it un-
safe for me then to,be.gain connected with him. Hence
the sole cause of his hostility towards me.
" In March, 1832, Mr. Grant started the True Sun,
having previously published a variety of libels, which he
has often repeated in that paper. It is net my purpose
to recriminate on Mr. Grant by following his example ;
but he has stated that the paper was started as the most
direct means of doing justice to himself and to others.' Now,
his shares and interest in The Sun then belonged to his
creditors, and, in endeavouring to withdraw the subscribers
of The Sun to the True Sun, he was injuring the pro-
perty of his creditors; an odd way of doing them justice."
Here, then, we have an admission by Mr. Murdo
Young both of his zeal for Winchester, and of his having
deliberately resisted my attempts to recover that property
to a participation in which I had admitted him, and on
which I had expended such large sums. He gives several
reasons besides why be opposed himself to my first offer ;
but he assigns no reason why he opposed himself to the
subsequent offers of my friends,—to two offers more parti-
cularly of 13,000/. each, made by men of undoubted

wealth.
In fact, Mr. Young, it will be perceived, passes over
without daring to allude to them the whole of the tran-
sactions which form the substance of the " statement"
which I have given lo the public. Ile leaps at once from
November, 1830, to March, 1832, a distance of a year
and a half, and then, in allusion to the starting of the True
Sun, be remarks that I had recourse to an odd mode of
doing justice to my creditors.
Now, as Mr. Young has mentioned my creditors, per-
haps he will explain to the satisfaction of the world some
of th, it movements in relation to himself and his friends
Messrs. Winchester and Briggs.
My creditors, after I had struggled with Messrs. Win-
chester, Briggs, and Young, for upwards of twelve months,
unanimously voted me thanks for my conduct ; unani-
mously refused to recognize Mr. Winchester as assignee,
or Mr. Briggs as solicitor under the commission ; as they
bad previously rejected all Mr. Murdo Young's offers, and
authorized a prosecution against him.
Nay more, my creditors came forward to aid me after I
had started the True Sun. When Messrs. Briggs and
Winchester filed a criminal information against me, my
creditors, with scarcely an exception, made affidavits in
support of all my charges against these individuals.
Will Mr. Murdo Young be good enough to reconcile
these facts with his insinuation that I have injured my
creditors by starting the True Sun?
They know that I have only injured Mr. Murdo
Young, and Mr. Murdo Young knows, that though I may
have ruined him by that movement, I have not put my
creditors in a worse position than that in which he and
his friends had contrived to place them previously.
Mr. Young has sought to make a great deal of certain
very simple communications, which were made to hint
last spring by me, or on my behalf. The explanation
is easy.
The Sun was advertised for sale. It was the wish of
the friends who were aiding me in carrying on du: True
Sun to buy The Sun ; but it could not be bought with-
out Mr. Young's consent. His share was not to be sold,
and my friends would not endure Mr. Young as a partner.
My object was to induce Mr. Young to sell his one-fourth.
With that view, Mr. Wilkinson wrote to him, and called
o❑ him. With that view I offered to meet him.
Mr. Young has professed a new-born desire to vindicate
his character in your columns. Let him then answer my
" statement" there or in The Sun. Let him disprove
the 17 affidavits by which every tittle of that " state-
ment" is more than borne out. Unless he be prepared to
do that, Mr. Young will, in all probability, find silence
for the rest of his life as prudent a course as he has found
it for two years past.
I have the honour to be, Sir,
Your obedient humble servant,
PATRICK GRANT.

True Sun Office, Dec. 10.
p, s. My absence from town yesterday prevented the
possibility of an earlier reply to Mr. Young's letter.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.

Six,—ln reply to Mr. Grant's letter in the Times of
yesterday, I make the following short statement :
I never touched his money till I bad been nearly six
weeks at the office, when I was paid a month's salary.
In fact he never paid me one shilling in advance.
I had cognizance of no other expenditure beyond 12,0001.
The reason why 1 passed over "from November 1830
to March 1832," is, that the events of that period have
been repeatedly discussed in the Courts of Chancery and
King's Bench ; and I did not see the necessity of again
adverting to them. Mr. Grant well knows the result of
these proceedings.
With respect to Mr. Grant's creditors, or their move-
ments, I have nothing to do. That thanks were voted
to him by those who bad previously agreed to the
" printed " vote of thanks may be true; but it is Lqually
true that the amount of their debts united is barely
one-fifth of the 15,0001. given in Mr. Grant's own
schedule. Besides, two-thirds of that number and
amount actually signed the requisition to the Assignees'
to accept my offer of 5,0001. down, clear of all liabilities,
• which Mr. Thornton alone refused to accede to.
F Yet Mr. Grant say. these creditors authorised a