The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-06 00:00:00

3 ~ ~`

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Lorded the conduct of Marshal Soult. The Noble Earl
had spoken from misinformation, but he (the Duke of
Wellington) was thoroughly convinced that Marshal Soult,
like others, had been obliged to attend to the state of par-
ties in France, and that the British Government, in order
to assist that of France, bad seconded this strange enter-
prise--not very honourable to this country, and very disas-
trous to Holland. The Noble Earl had not attempted to
answer that part of the speech of his Noble Friend where
he had argued that the occupation of Antwerp had not
advanced the object in view. True it was, that the King
of Holland had thus been deprived of one means of an-
noyance, but in what way did the capture of Antwerp
forward the conclusion of a treaty ? The objections of
the King of the Netherlands remained as strong as ever,
and it was imposelble that he should agree to the terms
proposed. Even were he disposed to concede, the Em-
peror of Russia could not allow its A singular mistake
seemed to have been made on the subject of the navigation
of the Scheldt : it bad never been disputed by the King
of the Netherlands, and the treaty of 1815 gave him six
florins per ton upon all shipping entering that river. The
King of the Netherlands, when the question was raised,
himself offered to make the navigation free. But the
Noble Earl stated, that the treaty could not be carded
into execution. He (the Duke of Wellington) should like
to know why it could not be carried into execution as far
as related to the interests of Holland in the town of lien-
loo ? The fact was, that Venloo was to be ceded to Hol-
land by Belgium, and, therefore, the treaty could not be
carried into execution. Was it wonderful, then, that
the King of the Netherlands did not feel very grateful to
the British Ministers, or that he should wish, by delay or
otherwise, to avoid the execution of what was attempted
to b- forced upon him? It was said also that this was
no war. He did not pretend to be sufficiently skilled
in the law of the question to be able to say
whether it did or did not come within the definition of a
war ; but this he knew, that it was very much like it,
and that an embargo had subsisted for three months,
ich bad been imposed by the King in Council.—
(Cheers.) He could not conceive how it could be fairly
said that Great Britain was not at this moment at war
with Holland. He had thought it necessary to say so much
upon one part of the subject, and he would now address
a few words to their Lordships on the war in Portugal.
And first, he would venture to remark, that there was no
country cf the world in which it was more the duty and
the interest of the British Ministry to prevent hostilities
than in Portugal. By treaty we were bound to defend
Portugal almost as if it were England, while our engage-
ment with Spain was to preserve neutrality. The magni-
tude of our commercial establishments, and the nature of
our commercial relations with Portugal, required that, as
fir as possible, we should preserve her in a state of tran-
quillity aud independence ; yet how had our interests been
neglected, and our duty abandoned by the pre-ent Ministers
cf the Crow❑ The present state of Portugal was called,
in the King's speech, a civil war." It was a revolution-
ary war—(Cheers)—a war carried on by means furnished
from England, and for the sake only of plunder. It was
supported by persons who had no earthly interest, but that
which was derived from the hope of plunder.—(Cheers.)
Yet this was the war which the King of England was
taught by his servants to call " a civil war" between two
Princes of the House of Braganca. He had a right to
consider the King's speech the speech of his Ministers, and
there he found this passage—" From the commencement
of this contest I have abstained from all interference, ex-
cept such as was required for the protection of British
subjects resident in Portugal; but you may be assured
that 1 shall nut fail to avail myself of any opportunity that
may be afforded me to assist in restoring peace to a coun-
try with which the interests of my dominious are so in-
timately connected." He (the Duke of Wellington) knew
something of war in general, and something of war in
Portugal, and he would tell Ministers how they might put
a speedy end to existing hostilities there. If, indeed, they
wished to restore peace, let them issue a proclamation call-
ing the King's subjects from the service of either party.—
(Cheers.) L--t them at the same time carry into effect the
Laws of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Let them not, when
the Commissioners of Customs had seizsd vessels laden
with men and means, interpose to prevent adjudicatiou.—
(Loud cheers.) Let them allow the law to take its
course, and judgment to be given in such cases in the
proper tribunals, and the war in Portugal would termi-
nate of itself and at once.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If
Ministers must employ fleets, let them send them where
they were necessary—to the Levant, instead of crowding
the Douro and the Tagus with British ensigns. Let
them do this, and peace would be restored in Portugal in
a much shorter time than war had been kindled there.
The fact was, and he would engage to prove it, that in
the autumn of 1831 the Commissioners of Customs did
detain certain vessels in the Thames, which were loaded
with troops, with arms, and with ammunition, for the
purpose of carrying on war in Portugal. The Act of
Parliament showed that the Commissioners were the pro-
per persons to adopt measures on that occasion ; but they
were ordered by a superior power not to interfere, and to
allow the vessels to proceed to their destination.—
(Cheers.) This fact, as he said before, he would prove
if the Noble Earl would allow him the necessary papers.
The Noble Earl bad said something about the last Go-
vernment, and had remarked upon its conduct when Don
Miguel was elected Sovereign of Portugal. He (the
Duke of Wellington) did not know whether any charge
was meant to be brought against the Members of the late
Cabinet for its conduct upon that occasion—for having
omitted its duty, or exceeded its powers; but this he would
say on behalf of himself and his former colleagues, that they
had not felt called upon to interfere with the decision of
a people in the choice of a Sovereign.—(Hear.) It had,
however, appeared necessary at that time for the British
Government to discontinue its relations with Portugal,
and such was the state of affairs to the time when the last
Ministers quitted office. They were then seeking the
means of recognising Don Miguel as Sovereign de facto,
if not de jure, and had they continued the advisers of the
Crown but a fortnight longer, he would have been recog-
nised—this, too, although the promised amnesty might
not have been issued. He (the Duke of Wellington) and
his colleagues would have been content to recognise Don
Miguel as King of Portugal, from an earnest desire to
preserve tranquillity in Portugal, by avoiding all ground,
of hostility. Such they had considered to be their duty,
not only towards Portugal, but with a view also to the
interests of Spain. There were two or three other points
in the speech from the Throne which required brief re-
mark ; and the first upon which he would touch was the
proposed Reform in the Church. Ministers were fond of
what they called Reforms in all departments; but he wished
that, in their zeal to recommend a Reform in the Church,
they had not made his Majesty say someting to countenance
the notion that blame was to be attributed to the clergy.
Why was it necessary, in the speech from the Throne,
to advert to the complaints regarding the collection of
tithes ? He did not say that such complaints did not
exist ; but sure he was that they were trifling in number
and amount, and that what was said by the King wou d
give encouragement to a party in the country, whose
object was to pull down the Establishment.—(Cheers.)
Let the House observe the consequences resulting from a
paragraph o❑ the same subject last year', i❑ regard to the
Church of Ireland.—(Hear.) The condition of the
Church of Ireland was most deplorable; it subsisted upon
charity, to the abandonment of its rights, and some of the
most pious and learned of its members were known to be
living upon the bounty of some of their Lordships.—
(Cheers.) With this experience, was it not worth the
consideration of Ministers whether such a paragraph in
the speech of this Session, and in relation .to. the Church
of thi4 country, might not he attended with injurious con-
s• quences?—(Hear.) At all events, he hoped, since he
found the passage in the speech, that the measures in con-
templation had been long considered and well matured.
Having voted last year in favour of a measure, brought
forward by a Most Reverend Prelate, whom he did
not now see in his place (the Archbishop of Canter-
bury), upon this tinhject, and for a second measure,
brought forward by the same high authority,
relating to pluralities, he should be prepared to give the
plans of the Nohie Earl his best consideration, with the
most anxious desire to support them, if he found they
were calculated to promote the great end of pacification
without injury. Another paragraph in the speech was
devoted to a different branch of the same subject—the
• Church of England as established in Ireland. The Noble
Earl had stated the determination of the King's Ministers
to maintain the Legislative Union ; but, begging the Noble
Earl's pardon, he must say, that when he had advised his
Majesty to state that the question of the Church =et be
considered on grounds different from those which applied
to the Church of England, he had forgotten an Act of
Parliament.
Earl GREY—If the Noble Duke reads the passage in
the King's speech, he will find that it is not so.
The Duke of WELLINGTON read as fellows :—" In
the further Reforms that may be necessary, you will pro-
bably find, that, although the Established Church of Ire-
land is by law permanently united with that of England,
the peculiarities of their respective circumstances, will
require a separate consideration." Now, if the Noble
Earl would refer to the Act of Union between England and
Ireland, he would see that this paragi apb was in some de-
gree opposed to it, and that the two Churches were there
declared to be inseparably united ; and that " the preser-
vation of the United Churches, as the Established Church,
shall be deemed and taken as a fundamental
°part of the
Union." It remained to be seen what would be done

for the Established Church in England and whatever
was found practicable here inigh, withott objection, be
applied to Ireland. He was afraid that the doctrine
taught by the King's speech—that one reasure was ap-
plicable to the Church in England and another to the
Church in Ireland—would be employed b the disadvan-
tage of the Establishment, by its numerous enemies in the
Sister Kingdom. There was another viewof the subject
he could not help stating, and to which h. entreated the
especial attention of the Noble Earl. I was this :
that in order to maintain the Union iniolate, it was
absolutely necessary to pay some attention to the feelings
of the Protestants of Ireland.—(Cheers.) He had paid
sense attention to the conduct of the Goverment of Ire-
land, and he was glad to see that they wereabout to adopt
measures which at an earlier period world have been
more efficient.—(Hear, hear.) The Nobl, Earl might,
however, rely upon it, that if the Protestaits were made
to believe that any measure about to b introduced
would diminish the efficiency of the Establihed Church,
the danger to the Church and to the enpire would,
indeed, be imminent. The Protestants of Ireland were
the natural friends and connexions of Enalanl, and he en-
treated the Noble Earl never to lose sight of nit important
truth.—(Hear.) He farther begged to rerniol the Noble
Earl, and the House, first, that the King vas sworn to
maintain the Established Church in Ireland--(Hear)--
and, secondly, that in the very last arrangemeit made, as
well for the Dissenters of England, as for theßoman Ca-
tholics of Ireland, words were inserted in the oaths to be
taken by them for the security of the Protestant Church—
. This, therefore, ought to be the prindple of any
change called Reform. He admitted that Mitisters were
placed in a most anxious and responsible situaton, and he
declared himself ready to give them every assistance in his
power. Having thus stated, ae was his duty, ais opinion
upon these various topics, he should not trouble their
Lordships farther.—(Cheers.)
The Earl of RODEN could not acquiesce it many of
the remarks of the Noble Mover, but was happy To bear
testimony to the temper and ability he displayed. Neither
could he by any means concur in all parts of the speech
from the Throne, but he was nevertheless resolved to sup-
port Ministers in all measures necessary for the pros
section of the property and establishments of the coun-
try. He trusted, with all his heart, that he should be
able to approve the plans to be brought 'erward in
relation to the sister kingdom, now in a condtion so la-
mentably distracted. Having been placed by the loyal
Protestants of Ireland in a situation of which ht might be
justly proud, he felt it his duty to state, that there was no
class of the King's subjects more ready to aid the Noble
Earl in rescuing their native country from the horrors
that seemed to await it.—(Hear.) He was able to speak
upon this subject—not from hearsay, or the reports of
newspapers, but from actual and daily observation. He
bad re urned only yesterday from a part of Ireland where
he had resided for some time, and where the Protestant
gentry and farmers were directly under the influence of
the Insurrection Act—they were unable to leave their
houses after dusk, lest they should be beaten or assassi-
nated. The fact was, that no representatlin in the news-
papers could come up to the real misery of the Protestant
population of Ireland.—(Hear.) On this account he was
rek.iced to hear the Noble Earl state that order must
he triumphant, and that all resistance must oe put down
by the strong arm of a vigorous law. He could say, from
his knowledge, that the clergy of Ireland would he most
thankful to receive any alteration in the Church of Ireland,
which was consistent with the maintenance of their
rights as Ministers of the Church of England. He was
glad to learn by the speech of the Noble Earl, that the
separate consideration which he proposed to give to the
affairs of the Church of Ireland, was merely on account
of particular circumstances, and did not mean that the
two Churches were separate.—(Hear, hear, from the
Ministerial Benches.) The speech of the Noble Earl
would gladden the heart of every loyal man in Ireland.
The system of intimidation by demagogues and by priests
was carried so far in Ireland, that no man could consider
his life, his property, or his character safe. He spoke in
the presence of several of his Noble Friends, who, like
himself, had resided on their property, and endeavoured to
preserve the peace and promote the welfare of the coun-
try. He was anxious to endeavour to remove an im-
pression from the minds of the Noble Lords opposite—
not that he had seen any evidence of it this night, but on
former occasions—he was anxious to remove from the
minds of those Noble Lords the impression they enter-
tained against the Protestants of Ireland. He could
assure those Noble Lords--and he spoke in a character
those Noble Lords -authrstand—that the Pro-
testants of Ireland ~,v1 no object whatever in
the course which they thought it their duty to take,
than the protection of their lives and properties.
When they found a Government established capable of
eff cling that object, the Protestants of Ireland would
support that Government with all their strength ; and
that Government would find that the Protestants of Ire-
land would be their right arm in preserving the Union be-
tween the two countries. He knew that the dissolution
of the Union meant the separation of the two countries.—
(Hear, hear.) Though the opinion in favour of that
repeal had gained ground, it had not gone so far but that
lie thought the speech of the Noble Earl, and the measures
he meant to take to repress disturbance, would open the
eyes of those who bad been disgusted by neglect and want
of protection, and driven to adopt measures that would
lead to their utter ruin. He had felt himself called upon to
take that opportunity to say these few words. He was
unwilling to detain their Lordships further ; but he
trusted their Lordships would ever remember that the
Church of England and Ireland was one and indissoluble,
and that they must stand or fall together. If the Church
of Ireland were attacked, the Church of England would
not long be safe; if united, they might stand together and
flourish.
The question was then put, and the address agreed to,
and ordered to be presented by the Lords with white staves,

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.
Earl GREY then said that all their Lordships knew
the great fitness of Lord Shaftesbury to fill the Chair of
Committees, and he moved that the Noble Earl be reap-
pointed to that office.
The LORD CHANCELLOR seconded the motion,
and complimented the Earl of Shaftesbury on his assiduity
and attention, which he, from his situation, had an excel-
lent opportunity of knowing.—Motion agreed to.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, having been proposed
by his Noble Ftiend, and the proposition seconded in so
handsome a manner, would very willingly again undertake
the duties of the office.
On the motion of Earl GREY, the Earl of Shaftesbury
was then appointed Deputy Speaker.
Adjourned at ten o'clock, till one o'clock to-morrow
(this day).

110 USE OF COMMONS, FEBRUAPY 5.
The SrEAKEIL took the Chair at about a quarter past 2.
In a few minutes Sir Augustus Clifford appeared and
intimated the King's command to the House to attend in
the House of Lords. The Speaker, attended by a number
of Members, then went, and having returned in about a
quarter of an hour, and taken his seat,
Lord ALTHORP said that before proceeding with the
swearing in of Members, he begged to give notice that on
Tuesday next be should move for leave to bring in a Bill
to amend the state of the Irish Church Establishment ; that
on the 14th of this month he should move for leave to bring
in a Bill to etect corporations in several towns, and on
the same day for a committee to inquire into the state
of existing corporations in England ; and on the 21st inst.
he would move for leave to bring in a Bill for the com-
mutation of tithes in England.

Mr. STANLEY gave notice, that on the 19th
he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend
the laws relating to Grand Juries in Ireland ; and, on
the 16th, for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the
constabulary force.
Mr. GROTE gave notice that, on the 28th inst., be
should move for leave to bring in a Bill to take the votes
at elections for Members of this House by ballot.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that he shoul.l move for
leave, on different days he stated, to bring in Bills to abolish
the compulsory payment of vestry rates and cesses, totally
to extinguish tithes in Ireland, to amend the Irish Reform
Act, to amend the registration laws in Ireland, to restore
the common law in Ireland with respect to subletting
I Inds and tenements, to amend Irish Corporations, to do
away with the present Grand Jury system, and
establish in its place one founded on repreaentation, to
amend the laws relative to special Juries, anti Juries in
ounltrieeslanadnd; finally,coaundn,tiesofcititi
the
a Bill to
right
of electing conservators of the peace.
ecxritiennidnalto clarsiessh cin
Mr. WILKES gave notice that on the 21st of March
he should move for leave to bring in a bill to prevent Par-
liament sitting more than three years.
Mr. FOWELL BUXTON gave notice, that if his
Majesty's Ministers did not before then take up the
subject of slavery, he should, on the 19th instant,
move for leave to bring in a Bill upon the subject.
Lord ASHLEY gave notice that he should move fc:-
leave to bring in Mr. B,..d!er's Fact,,," Bill.

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