The Sun.
London, England, 1851-04-01 00:00:00

THE SUN,

perals and privates. But they enjoyed the benefit of a
better style of messing, reading-rooms, and other cora- i
forts; and if they had not so large a residue of pay as ,
they ought to have in comparison with the corporals
and privates, those advantages counterbalanced the
redaction. In his opinion, therefore, that complaint
was not well founded. But it was said that sergeants
not only did not get good-service money, but that if
for any reason they were reduced to the ranks they
were not entitled to the good-service allowance, while
the same rule did not apply to corporals. In that re-
spect ho admitted that the sergeants had some ground
of complaint, and he proposed to make some improve-
ment in the system. There was another point, also, on
which he thought the sergeants had a right to complain.
A sergeant could not retire on a pension as sergeant Uri-
less he had for three years filled that rank. Now the
number of sergeants who had served for less than three
years in that rank was very inconsiderable, and he was
not disposed to deprive the few who might so retire of
the right to the usual pension of their comrades.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said he thought that officers
of the line laboured under one manifest disadvantage as
compared with officers of the Guards. It had been re-
peatedly stated by the highest authorities before Com-
mittees of that House, that the higher ranks of the army
were obtained in the Guards in about eight or ten years
less time than in the line; so that ou an average about
20 years' service on the banks of the Thames was equi-
valent to 30 years' service on tho banks of the Sutlej.—
(Hear, hear.) In his opinion there was a real griev-
ance
in that case. His Ilon. Friend the Member for
Montrose had complained that the British army cost
more in proportion to its numbers than any other army
in the world. Now, there was no doubt but it was a
costly army; but it should be remembered that it was
Subject to many expenses which were unknown in the ar-
mies of other countries, and that no other army went
through anything like the same amount of work. The
practice of purchasing commissions was a heavy charge
on the British officers. He could pledge himself to the
Rouse that the amount of money they had so paid was
near 10,000,0001. He had always opposed the system of
purchasing commissions, but it should be acknowledged
that it was an economical one for the country. Under
that system officers sold theircommissiens to other officers,
and the public was by that means saved the charge of
many a pension.
Sir H. VERNEY said that officers of the Guards were
not always men who led inactive lives. Colonel Mackin-
ion, who was at present entrusted with so important a
command at Kafraria, was one of those officers. He did
not deny that officers in the Guards obtained promotion
more rapidly than officers in the line, but the latter
officers did not complain of that. With regard to the ex-
penses of the two kinds of service, he should observe
that a return had been made out some veers ago of the
Coat of maintaining 1,200 men in the line, and 1,200
men in the Guards; and he believed, that if that return
were produced, it would be seen from it that there was
but a very slight difference between the two charges.
Mr. GRENVILLE BERKELEY said that, as a for-
mer officer of the line, he could say he that he believed
there was not the slightest jealousy between the line and
the Guards.
After a few words from Col. CHATTERTON, which
were not distinctly heard in the gallery,
Mr. HENLEY said he believed the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Secretary at War would find, on further ex-
amination, that the sum of 9,600 L, to which he had
already referred, was included in the sum of 949611.,
Which the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated as the
amount in the savings banks. It certainly appeared so
in the return which had been signed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman himself. He could not, however, tell how
far that fact would affect the number of depositors; but
the Right Hon. Gentleman would probably give them
some information upon that point on some future
occasion.

Mr. HUME said that the statements which had been
made with respect to the position of the different corps
showed that the Government ought to take the matter
into their hands with a view to place it on a more satis-
factory footing. Another point to which he should
direct the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman was
the cost of the recruiting system, which at present
amounted to more than 100,0001. It had been proved
before the Committee up-stairs that that sum might be
reduced by one-half if recruiting were left in the hands
of the officers of the pensioner corps.
Mr. F. MAULE said that he had not yet made up his
mind as to the policy of transferring the recruiting sys-
tem to the pensioner corps. The matter was still under
his consideration.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said he had been happy to
have heard that there had of late years been a decided
improvement in the sanitary condition of our troops. He
Was afraid, however, that nothing had yet been done to
render the condition of the barracks at Barbadoes less
unhealthy than it had been. A dreadful mortality had
taken place two years ago in Barbadoes, and that mor-
tality was distinctly traceable to the barracks. He
trusted that the Right Hon. Gentleman would endeavour
to rectify that evil.
The Committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment ... ... 31
Against it ... .. 135
Majority against the amendment ... 104
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr- W. WILLIAMS complaining of various charges
d allowances for the maintenance of the Guards.
Among other items, there was a table allowance of 5,004/,
for the officers on duty at St. James's. There were two
breakfasts provided for those officers, one at nine and the
other at eleven o'clock. There was also a dinner pro-
vided for them at seven o'clock, with an unlimited
supply of port and sherry and claret from the period of
the removal of the cloth until ten o'clock. There were
1,308 men in the Guards, and in the two first regiments
of Dragoons, which he found in the Army List—namely,
the Dragoon Guards and the Light Dragoons, there were
1,302; but to the 1,308 men in the Guards there were
96 officers, while to the 1,302 men in those regiments of
Dragoons there were only 80 officers. There was a still
greater difference between the number of non-commis-
sioned officers in the two cases. In the case of the Guards
the number of those officers was 159, while the number
in the case of the Dragoon regiments was only 110. Then
again, under the head of allowances to field officers, cap-
tains, riding-masters, and farriers, the allowance in the
Guards was 6,4481., while in the two Dragoon regiments
the allowance was only 3,026/. And egain, for clothing,
the charge in the Guards was 10,3921., while in the two
Dragoon regiments the charge was only 5,2871. The
allowances fur 5,260 officers in the Guards amounted to
20,7371., whilst those of the Ist, 3d. sth, 7th, and 13th
Regiments of the line, embracing 5,67 S officers, or 118
more than those in the Guards, amounted only to 1,9901
In the clothing there was a corresponding increase, so
that, in point of fact, if the costs of the Guards were
reduced to the level of the line regiments, they would
be able to add 2,880 men to the strength of the army,
or to save a proportionate amount of expenditure. All
this was kept up for the sake of the aristocracy or their
immediate connexions.—(A laugh.) He proposed to re-
duce the vote by 81,1521.
Mr. F. MAULE had hoped, after the discussion which
taken place on the comparative merits of the Guards and
the line, that the Committee would not have been called
upon to enter again upon that vexed question. He cer-
tainly had never heard any complaints made by officers
in the line of the inequalities to which the Hon. Mem-
ber had referred. These exclusive privileges had be-
longed to the Guards for many years, and were well
known to all who were entering the army. The allow-
ance for the guard at St. James's Palace had been the
subject of inquiry before Committees, who, neverthe-
less, had not recommended its discontinuance. This,
however, was not a privilege exclusively enjoyed by the
Guards, but was shared by any other troops which hap.
Pened to be there. In Dublin the same alto wance was
made, and he (Mr. F. Maule) in his evidence had cer-
tainly recommended that both should be retained.
Colonel DUNNE said his objection was not to the pay
of the Guards, but tc their advantages in the way of
;
promotion and if the lion. Member for Lambeth
could have limited his amendment to that object, he
would have given it his support. He trusted, however,
that the public feeling would ultimately put an end to
the rams,
Mr. HUME said he had never complained of the
amount of the pay either in the army or the navy; on
the contrary, he had often said that it was not enough.
Ilia complaint was as to the number employed. What
he wished to see was equality established between the
officers in every department of the service.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the vote ... ..• 84
For the amendment „, 15
Majority in favour of the veto... —69
On the vote of 159,9321. for the expenses of the general
Staff,

Mr. HUME complained of the amount of the vote,
seeing that the reduction made in the colonial military
establishments rendered it unnecessary to maintain so
large a number of staff officers.
Mr, F. MAULE said reductions had been made.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 92,7471. for allowances and contingent
°lPenses for the several departments of her Majesty's
11"1,1 forces,
• WILLIANS complained of the retention of the
1
°w„eeooo of Deputy Judge Advocate, at a needless expense of
,/.
, when the duties of the principal were so light.
P. SIAULE said the duties of the Judge Advocate
and his deputy were of very great importance, for the
troceedings of all cout-martinis passed through their
ands, and it was their duty to see that they were con-
formable to law.
Mr. lIUME could not understand why the appoint-
ment of a Minister of War, recommended by a Corn-
taittee, of which five Members of the present Government
I'lere part d bwhich a great saving would be ee
, ati y W
4q not been made. All reform appeared to be Stopped
for the present.
The vote was then agreed to.
miCirn the vote of 16,901/. for the expenses of the Royal
ItarY College,Colonel REID wished to take that opportunity of
perotesting against the system of subjecting
officers to an
atination on their promotion. He had listened with
great pain when he heard the scheme propounded, for he
:G
eld not but feel that it was a calamity to wound the
voGrit
and humiliate the feelings of gentlemen in the ser-
e'bY subjecting them to an examination before a pe-
h-gogue in the abstract sciences; and he certainly had
hr,d that the Right lion. Gentleman would have qua-
ould
hoi:levhis proposition ia some way or other. He regretted,
er, to find that the plan was to be carried out. He
go further, would and deny the necessity and the
on
cos, utility of a knowledge of these abstract sci-
He would appeal to the Right Hon. Gentleman
Roo°,rrnation of that assertion. He trusted the Right
stde_. entletnan would apply his strong mind to the
11, el'ea",sand would point out to the officers of the army
out ktin of studying on their own account, and holding
im an to those who did so. Any person
rolue d
looke, ° into the regiment as a pedagogue would be
Itevea uPen as a sort of spy, and no gentleman he be-
n he be-
o 1
titterer] d accept such an appointment. lie con-
', tha
- regghtiou would be extremely unjust

as regarded officers who had purchased their
commissions before its promulgation. There was
an honourable understanding that those gentlemen
who so purchased were entitled to their pro-
motio❑ after a certain period, and he denied that
they had any right to impose upon men who had em-
barked their fortunes in the army a new condition—
namely, the learning of algebra, Euclid, logarithms, &c.
He co uplained that those examinations were conducted
most capriciously, unfairly, and absurdly. He knew• a
case of a young gentleman, whose father told him be was
asked, among other absurd questions, what was the dif-
ference between a monk and a friar.—(Great laughter.)
The answer of the young man he did not hear, but he
stated that the answer which was on the tip of his
tongue, but that he feared it would be considered imper-
tinent, was, "Six of ono end half-a-dozen of the other."
—(Renewed laughter.) Lie complained also of the great
expense to which these gentlemen were put by being
sent to private tutors to be crammed. lie hoped the
Right lion. Gentleman would take the matter into his

serious consideration.
Mr. F. MAIJ LE had heard many objections to giving
instruction to officers of the army, but the Hon. and Gal-
lant Gentleman was the first who had the courage to
stand up in defence of the old state of ignorance of the
officers of the army. It was a degree of courage that he
did not expect from a military man. They had begun to
educate the soldiers, and he doubted whether the officers
would like to be more ignorant than the soldiers—that
they should exceed in professional knowledge those
under whom they acted. Such a state of things would
produce a feeling of contempt for those officers in the
minds of the men. So far as he was concerned, it was
his desire that no books should be published containing
questions and answers, but that young officers should be
called up to the table and be asked questions origi-
nating in the mind of the examiner. With regard to
the examination of cornets and ensigns on their pro-
motion, it was purely of a professional character, and on
the promotion of an officer to a company the examina-
tion was far more difficult and comprehensive. He be-
lieved the complaint was not of the examination, but
that officers were not afforded an opportunity of acquir-
ing that information. In the garrison of Portsmouth
there was a very able man appointed to instruct, not the
officers, but the men, and yet he was invited by many of
the officers to give them instruction upon various
branches upon which they required to be informed. He
should shortly come to the House to ask them to pro-
vide instructors for the officers who would be men of
their own rank and station, and he believed that these
men, instead of being looked upon with suspicion,
would be sought and their weiety courted by the other
officers.

Colonel REID bad no intention whatever to disparage
the character of the officers of the army. He thought
when the Duke of Wellington, who bad had the control
of the army for forty years, had not interfered, it was
too much of the Right Hon. Gentleman to introduce that
innovation.

Mr. HUME thought if there was one thing more than
another for which the Right Honourable Gentleman de-
served credit, it was the instruction of the officers of the

army. If the Duke of Wellington had not interfered
during fcrty years, so much the worse. The British
army was notorious for its ignorance—(011, oh)—
the officers at any rate.—(lronical cheers.) Take an
English battalion, and place it side by side with a
French one, and he was satisfied that they would have
no chance with the French, all of whom received a
regular professional education. This was certainly one
of the things for which ho was disposed to give the Go-
vernment credit.—(bear.) In the Military College there
were only 180 cadets, and ho did not think it was ne-
cessary for that small number to maintain a governor,
at 1,000/. per annum, a deputy governor, and a large
staff of officers. The establishment was far too expen-
sive. He thought there ought to be a talented officer
selected to teach the young officers professional know-
ledge and military tactics. Rules should be laid down
for all young men ent-ring the service in future, and
when it was known that this knowledge was requisite
previously to promotion, all would avail themselves of
it. He thought it rather hard, however, that the rule
should be applied to those who wero already ten or

twelve years in tbo service.
Sir DE LACY EVANS concurred with the Hon.
Member for Montrose, that this new system of instruc-
tion in the army was one of the things for which the
Government deserved the highest credit. He hoped the
Right Hon. Gentleman would not be deterred by the
objections of the Hon. and Gallant Member opposite
from persevering in his plan. Hitherto money alone
was considered the main ingredient i❑ promotion, but
now there was a chance of merit being considered and
rewarded.

Colonel DUNNE did not see any objection to the
publication of those " Manuels of Instruction," which
were perfectly necessary to carry out the system of in-

struction.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the next vote, 18,0101. for defraying the charge of
the Royal Military Asylum and the Hibernian Military
School,
Mr. HUME said that in this Royal Military Asylum
there were 350 boys, and 114 persons to attend on them.
This appeared to be a most extravagant expense upon
the country. He recollected a school having been esta-
blished in Spits'fields some time ago, where there were
1,000 pupils educated at an expense of only 1101.
Mr. F
this
asylum
MAumwysLeE stabsaiiisdhetdhleoyrin
of mind
providingt hat
the
purposeshouldbesr
for the orphan children of soldiers, where they were edu-
cated by schoolmasters •
in the army; indeed they were
all there in the course of training for the position of
schoolmasters for the British army. It was impossible
to support these establishments upon more economical
principles. The Hon. Member seemed to think it ad-
visable to bring over the children in the Hibernian School
for the purpose of making one establishment of the
whole; there was, however, good reason for keeping up
the Hibernian School in Ireland, inasmuch as the chil-
dren there were principally Catholic orphans, and the
arrangements there for the education of such were much
more convenient than they could have been in the
Royal Military Asylum here. He believed, too, that
it was a model institution, and was most admirably
conducted.
Mr. HUME said that the money demanded fur these
establishments was sufficient to maintain four times the
number of children in them. Ho was informed that the
eldest of the boys in them was only fourteen. He thought
that those children could be better brought up in the
country.
After a few words from Sir DE LACY EVANS and Mr.
F. MAULE in reply,
The vote was agreed to.
Tho next vote proposed was 65,0001. for defraying the
charge of volunteer corps.
Mr. W. MILES was very much satisfied with the
manner in which his Right Hon. Friend had spleen of
the yeomanry corps when the subject was last before the
House. He (Mr. Miles) had the honour for some years
to command a regiment, and he requested the Right
Hon. Gentleman to consider the short time that was
allowed to the yeomanry corps to exercise and become
disciplined. They had only five days in the year. Surely
the Right Hon. Gentleman did not suppose that under
such circumstances they could obtain that efficiency
which it was so desirable they should have? Was the
Right Hon. Gentleman, too, of opinion that 7s. a man was
too high payment when they were called out for exercise
—whether that exercise be fur permanent duty, or for
such as was contemplated this year? The year before last
they had three optioes—viz., either not to go out at all
—(Laughter)—to go out in detachments for three days,
or as regular regiments. He wished to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman whether he thought they could go out
as regiments with their horses for only ss. a man? He
(Mr. Miles) did not complain of such payment; but it
must come to this, that if we wished to keep up the effi-
ciency of the yeomanry, we ought not to pay them less
than 7s. This payment must be made up by the com-
manders, if they wished to preserve their corps in a
state of efficiency. If they touched the contingent fund
for this purpose, bow were they to meet the expenses of
clothing and other contingencies? Let us have either an
efficient body of men or none at all. Any vote that re-
duces the cost of the yeomanry, cannot but be detrimen-
tal to th© interests of the country. He would now refer
to the speech made last year by the Hon. Member for
Bristol (Nlr. H. Berkeley) on this subject. The motives
and actions of the yeomanry were misconstrued by the
Hon. Gentleman on that occasion. That Hon. Gentleman
then said, in speaking of the Bristol riots, that the West
Semersetshire Yeomanry, during that time, were locked
up in a riding school by order of the authorities, to pre-
vent the people doing them harm.—(Laughter.) Now the
facts were these, that orders were issued by the magistrates
of Bristol, requiring Captain Shute to call out his troop.
The troop, however, mustered so exceedingly small,
being only seventeen, that, on the fact being reported to
the magistrate, they were ordered to march to the
riding-house, and to wait there until further orders.
Captain Shute obeyed those orders. The military having
al retired out of Bristol, this troop rendered most effi-
cient service in placing the stores in safety. Captain
Shute, with his small troop, exhibited the greatest
courage and efficiency en the occasion. When the or-
ders were given for the assembling of the regiments up-
on a Sunday morning, many of them had to march
upwards of forty miles into Bristol. Thanks were given
to them, not only by the magistrates of Bristol, but also
by the general who was then in command of the mili-
tary. In these thanks Captain Shute's troop was parti-
cularly specified as having been most active and efficient
on the occasion. The troops that did not tura out
on the Sunday were dismissed on the Monday morn-
ing. Such was the plain statement he had to make
in answer to the violent speech of the Honourable
Member for Bristol.—(Cries of " Oh, oh!") Well,
he would call it the humorous and sarcastic
speech made by the Hon. Gentleman last year. He
hoped and trusted that when next the Hon, Member
for Bristol thought it necessary to make an attack upon
the corps of yeomanry, he would have the courtesy to
inform the leading members of the corps in that House
of his intention. He (Mr. Miles) had been frequently
out on duty with his corps, and whenever they were
Failed upon to assist the civil force, he had found them
invariably ready to a man to do their duty in a manner
most..r.creditable to them—(lean)
Al • tEREELEY thought the onslaught just made
upon him by the Gallant General—(Laughter)—he
really forgot the dignity of the Hon. Member—well, by
the Gailunt Colonel, demanded a
brief reply from him.
He would endeavour to show the Hon. end Gallant
member that he was not quite so much to blame in the
matter as he might suppose. He hoped that the Gallant
Colonel, who formed the vanguard in the present attack
upon him. would not be followed by the Hon. and
Gallant Member for Warwickshire (Mr. Newdegate),
who had under his command a mournful and dangerous
troop. Indeed, when he considered how many Hon.
Members in that House wore connected with the yeo-
manry, he could not but el his situation somewhat
'
alarming, and he was reminded of the lines in
" Hu-
dibras :"
" Oh, what dangers do environ
The 131 P that meddles Iva gold

LON DON,

—(Laughter.) He had endeavoured to show that the
yeomanry, as military men, were perft,ct impostors, and
as cobs'abulary of not the least use.—(Renewed laugh-
ter) That was the position which he took up upon the
occasion referred to, and he referred to the Bristol riots.
The accusation he then made was not from himself, but
was one which he had quoted from the Bristol Gazette,
an old established paper, and the editor of which, as the
Honourable Member for Somersetshire must know, was
a highly respectable and trustworthy gentleman. That
paper stated that a body of men from the West Somer-
sets'lre yeomanry had b-en called upon by the magis-
trates upon the Saturday of the three days' riots (Satur-
day, Sunday, and Monday, being those three days).
Mr. W. MILES—They were not called upon until the

Sunday.
Mr. LI. BERKELEY would be able to show that they
wero called upon by the magistrates on the Saturday,
but they never appeared until the Sunday.—(Cheers and
laughter.) And when they appeared they showed in
such small numbers—

Mr. MILES—It was only a troop.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY knew it was only a troop. It
was the Bedminster troop. The Bedminster troop,
being the nearest to Bristol, to whom therefore should
the magistrates apply but to them ? They came up, as
he had said, but in such small numbers, that they were
locked up in the riding-house in Portmore-lane, by con-
sent of Captain Shute—(Laughter)—not S. h-double-o-t,
but S-h-u-t-e.—(Loud laughter.) A letter appeared in
the Bristol Gazette at the time, stating that Captain Shute
concurred in opinion with the magistrates that his troop
having assembled in such small numbers, should be shut
up.—(Laughter.) That was the statement of the editor
of the Bristol Gazette, referring to his files of the year
1831. He held the statement in his hand, and any
Honourable Member who wished to read it was welcome
to do so. He had the greatest respect for his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Miles), the gallant leader of gallant men—
(A laugh)—and he believed as to his gallant corps, that
take them off their horses, and take them out of uni-
form—in which they looked like hogs in armour—
(Laughter)—put them into smockfrocks, and put a stick
into their hands, and they would make excellent special
constables. But, as a county constabulary—laugh
!
(Laughter)—they never did distinguish themselves, and
never would.—(Continued laughter.) They would al-
ways be a most unfortunate defence against riots if they
were called into action.
Mr. MILES explained. The yeomanry could not be
called out with a magistrate's order, and it was by order
of Alderman Daniels that they retired to the riding-

house.
Mr. HUME hoped that the House, after the speech o
his Hon. Friend (Mr. H. Berkeley), would be prepared
to dispense with the vote altogether.—(A laugh.)
Mr. F. MAULE could not agree with the Hon. Mem-
ber for Bristol in the aspersions which ho had cast upon
the yeomanry cavalry.-7(Cheera.) He could not concur
with him in thinking them " impostors" as soldiers, for
the reports which he had seen from experienced officers
of the army warranted him in stating, that if well
drilled and well disciplined, the yeomanry would per-
form any duty that any body of men could be called
upon to perform.—(Hear, hear.) He regarded them as
an admirable force.
Colonel CHATTERTON, having inspected the yeo-
manry cavalry 69 times, could state that he had found
them in the highest state of efficiency, far exceeding what
could have been supposed from the short period of train-
ing they had had.—(Hear.) He regarded them as a
loyal, admirable, and devoted body of men.—(Cheers.)
Mr. H. BERKELEY said ho should oppcse this
vote.—(Oh, oh.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but the
reporters were almost immediately re-admitted, Mr. H.
Berkeley having withdrawn his opposition.
Mr, EDWARDS should be sorry to see Mr. H. Ber-
keley in the regiment to which he belonged.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Member had talked of the officers of the yeo-
manry as " hogs in armour."—(Laughter.) What
would the Hon. Member look like if he were arrayed in
the uniform?—(A laugh.) He would look very unlike
an officer, he should think. He hoped he should never
see that Hon. Member among his corps.—(A laugh.)
Mr. HUME thought it a pity the House should not
have a division.—Cries of " Divide" from the Opposition
benches.)
The vote was then agreed to.
Mr. F. MAULE said he did not propose to take any
more votes for the army to-night.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Colonel ANSON, in rising to bring forward the
ordnance estimates, said that when they were under con-
sideration last year be felt it necessary to go into more
than the usual details. It would not bo necessary to
trespass now for so long a time upon their patience. It
would be seen in these estimates that the amount demanded
this year showed a slight diminution from that of last
year. The reduction was 22,9201. The Committee would
not, he trusted,:imagine but that every requisite attention
had been given to the consideration of all tke items com-
prised in these estimates. The changes that had recently
been made had led to great reductions within the last
two years, and it would be seen that the decrease in these
estimates since 1849 was about 580,6461. The Govern-
ment were most aexious that this expenditure should be
confined within the lowest possible limits, and it was no
doubt the object of Parliament to carry out their wishes.
It must be remembered the vast services that were
to be performed by this department, and the expense
of it must be regulated in proportion to such services.
He (Colonel Anson) believed that there would be
great improvement found in this department, coupled
with an increased efficiency. He did not think
a varying estimate on ,a fixed payment was
desirable, because it indicated a want of fixed
principle; but those who had read the report of the
Committee up-stairs would, he was satisfied, acquit the
department of the Ordnance of any extravagance. The
reductions recommended by the Committee had been
adopted where practicable, and there was no want of
care and attention on the part of the Government and
the department to make them available. But economy
was not always retrenchment—especially in the Ord-
nance service, in respect of which no change so imme-
diately affected the public. He would, however, proceed
to the votes, asking the llon. Member for Montrose to
exclude altogether from his charge as against the Ord-
nance department, the first on the list, seeing that it
was a purely military vote; though he (Colonel Anson)
could not omit the opportunity of bearing his testimony
to the high state of efficiency, and the great value of the
Ordnance military corps—engineers, drivers, and sappers
and miners. The amount for this vote was 712,7551.,
being 1731. less than last year; but then there had
been no changes in that service since then. The hos-
pital expenses were less by 1,1691. than last year.
This year, however, the soldiers' pay and stoppages
while in hospital were included. The items for
schools came next ; and he was glad to say in that
particular the Ordnance corps was not behind the
army. The artillery schools up to 1840 had been sup-
ported by voluntary contributions. Since then they had
been supported by the public. There were now schools
at 21 stations; and they cost the public in all 3971. The
course of study was English grammar, geography, alge-
bra, the use of tke globes, practical geometry, mensura-
tion, measurement of heights and distances, and Scrip-
ture history. Besides this there was another course for
non-commissioned officers to improve themselves further
in practical geometry, mensuration of solids, extraction
of the square root, plane and spherical trigonometry, &c.
The most satisfactory accounts were given of their pro-
gress. At Woolwich there was inadequate accommoda-
tion, and the increase of this year was for the purpose
of increasing that accommodation. The attendance was—
Non-commissioned officers ... ... 235
Gunners and drivers ... 258
Trumpeters ... ... 116
Boys ... 237
In 1834 there was a library established for non-commis-
sioned officers. In 1835 there was one for gunners and
drivers, but recently the officers' library had been given
to the former, and the library of the latter to the gun-
ners, such was the desire of the latter for information.
The regimental savings banks had also increased, both
in the number of depositors and in the amount deposited.
There were in
1846-7, 383 depositors and £3,018 deposits.
1849-50, 1,109 7,300
Touching the instruction of officers it would be found
that that had also been attended to. There was a captain
of artillery placed as the director of artillery studies, and
all the second lieutenants received from him a practical
direction to their studies. The next point he would ad-
vert to was the allowance to married soldiers. There
was an error in the estimates as regarded the non-com-
missioned officers in this respect. The allowance was set
down at Id. per day; but the Treasury had granted
them 2d. per day for the purpose. He was happy to say,
also, that there were no fewer than 52 new cottages
built upon Woolwich-common for the accommodation of
married soldiers and non-commissioned officers which
were at a nominal rent,— 7d. a week to the former. With
respect to corporal punishment in the Ordnance corps,
the report he had to make was highly satisfactory. There
were in
1846-7, with 10,000 men 81 corporal punishments.
1848-9, an increased number 34 ff
1850, there were °lily ... 6
The vote for recruiting would be found to be reduced.
Recruiting was now conducted in a most economical
manner. The next vote was for commissariat allow-
ances (No. 2). This was 5,580/. less than last year,
There was an increase on the article of forage, because
of the increased value of that article, and also because
there were 328 horses more in the corps. But there was
a decrease of 8,000!. in coals, 1,700/. in candles, and 314/.
in palliasse straw.
The diminution was therefore ... £10,282
The increase 10,403

Leaving a difference ... £l2l
The barrack supply was 4,9681. less this year than last;
and when it was considered that the army was 120,000
strong, that there were 400 barracks in all, and that the
average was not 10/. per man each year, it could not be
called extravagant. With respect to the great coats of
the army, there was a diminution of 3,0001. Next year,
however, he did not anticipate a reduction, because a new
coat had been approved of which would be more expensive
than the present. The third vote was that for the Ord-
nance Office; a vote which had engaged the attention
of the Committee up stairs very closely. Oa this vote
there appeared a diminution of 11,000/. Ile did not
take credit for all this amount, as part of it had been
transferred to the next vote. The actual diminution,
however, was 3,6041. Ile considered no objection could
be raised to the vote in its reduced form. The next
vote was for the expenses in the United Kingdom and
colonies. He would not go through an explanation in
detail, but the result was that 8,600/. less was asked this
year compared with last year. The vote would have
been 15,000/. less than last year had not the store-
keeper's department been added to it. A decrease of
5,200/. would be found in the colonial ordnance establish-
ments, and there were other diminutions at home. He be-
lieved every practical economy had been carried out. The
strictest orders had been given to the colonial authorities
to carry out reductiona wherever practicable, and Go-