The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-21 00:00:00

EVENING, MARCH 21, 1851.

in the Gazette to reduce the price of passports to 7s. 6d.
He must express his thanks to the Noble Lord oven fur
this concession, but he still felt justified in calling upon
the House to consider whether the system, even thus
improved, was not attended with great anomalies. A
person who was travelling from London to Madrid, if he
did not choose to pay the fee at the Foreign-office,
could get a passport from the French Ambssador to
Paris free of any charge, and on arriving there, if he
applied to Lord Normanby he would be able to
get from him free of charge a passport to Madrid. He
thought it would be much better to equalize the charge,
to make it half-a-crown here, and impose the same
charge on the passports obtained from English ambassa-
dors abroad, which would do away with the system of
Englishmen obtaining passports from foreign ministers.
He would also recommend the establishment of some
central passport-office under the superintendence of
the Foreign Secretary. There was no disputing that it
was a happiness for this country that the passport sys-
tem was not in force in it, and it would be well if
foreign countries would follow her example, especially
since Don Carlos had proved the inutility of it, by
travelling through the whole of France without
a passport, and reaching the Basque provinces
without once being stopped.—(Hear, hear.) The
present system of granting passports was in point
of principle entirely indefensible, and he considered that
the inconvenience might be altogether avoided by re-
ducing the expense of all passports at the Foreign-
office to a small uniform rate, say 2s. or 2s. 6d. each.
Every one who had read the newspapers within the last
twelve months must be acquainted with the evils and
annoyances which persons travelling abroad were subject
to, and how British interests consequently suffered by
the delay in obtaining passports. He would suggest
whether it might not be possible to send blank passports
to responsible local authorities abroad, who would have
the power to supply them to all proper parties, and thus
avoid the trouble and expense consequent on the present
system. It remained for him only to inquire on what ground
this report was adopted. They had in effect neutralised all
the objects fur which the inquiry was instituted, and it
therefore remained to be considered what was the best
plan no., to pursue. There was now no necessity for
the discussion of the facts, for they had them all
before them, and he was very unwilling to
take up the time of the House on a ques-
tion like this, and he had consequently adopted a
motion for an address to her Majesty praying for some
regulation of the letters issued by the Secretary of State
to persons going abroad. That was the most consistent
course that could be taken, for it was usele*s to recal
the several measures which had been considered for re-
medying the evil, and he should consequently confine
himself to the terms of his motion, that an address be
presented to her Majesty praying for an inquiry into the
mode of granting passports.
A message having been brought from the House of
Lords,
Lord PALMERSTON proceeded to say that he
was quite sure that no one could quarrel with
the manner in which the Noble Lord had
brought the subject before the House. The
Noble Lord bad last session, very usefully has he (Lord
Palmerston) thought, introduced this evil of granting
passports to public notice. He had then very properly
observed that the expedition of Don Carlos through
France, when about to contend for the Spanish
Crown, was a sufficient evidence of the inutility of pass-
ports in securing a country from political intrigue,
but he himself might add another instance. It was that
of the Duchess De Berri, whose passports were quite
en regle, and must have been obtained without any in-
quiry. His attention bad been drawn to this
subject, but circumstances had occurred during the
last autumn to prevent his carrying out his de-
signs with a view to overturn the system. The
establishments of Austria and Prussia had interposed
peculiar obstacles, but he nevertheless bad a great anti-
cipation of so modifying the plan of passports as to
do away at some subsequent period with the most
grievous of the inconveniences which they occasioned,
and he might say that no less anxiety was felt by the
Secretary for the Home Department to accomplish the
same object. The Noble Lord who was
his predecessor in the Foreign-office, had
stated that he had only granted one passport
to a foreigner, bat that was one more than he had
granted, for he had never granted one. The only occa-
sion on which any number of passports had been
granted through the Foreign-office was through
Mr. Free born, the consul at Rome, who had
given 500 to the fugitives who had departed when the
French took possession of the city, and which were
granted in order that they might depart peaceably and
without any danger to the public tranquillity. The Noble
Lord was mistaken in supposing that there was such vir-
tue in a British passport. It was only a bona fide evidence
that they were held by a British subject, and very
often, as in France, they wore exchanged f.'r foreign
passports. No matter, however, what passport a Bri-
tish subject held, ho was entitled to the protection of
our consul in all cases of danger or difficulty; and again
repeating that the present was only an experiment.
It would not be expedient to accede to this motion, be-
cause it was wholly uncalled for. A Committee appointed
to investigate this trifling subject would be almost
as useless as having the power of four or five horses to
slice cucumbers.—(A laugh.) And he must decidedly
object to that proposal of the Noble Lord too.—(Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT suggested that an exception ought to
be made in favour of naturalised foreigners who had
settled and intended to remai❑ in this country.—(Hear,
hear.) The other day he applied to the Noble
Lord for a passport in favour of a Greek gentle-
mar, who had settled in Manchester for life, but it
was refused, and he should therefore be glad to
see a change made in the existing system, so as to con-
' for upon such persons all the privileges enjoyed by
British subjects.
Mr. M. MILNES thought the power of granting
passports to foreiguers ought always to be carefully ex-
ercised. Austria and Prussia had been striving to force
their passport system upon this country, and he was
not at all sorry that the attempt had been properly re-
sisted.

Mr. URQUIIART hoped the Noble Lord at the head
of the Foreign Department woakl be slow to adopt the
suggestion of the Hon. Member for Manchester.
Alter a few words of reply from Lord MA.HON,

The motion was. by le;ve, withdrawn.
IRISH POOR-LAW.

Mr. SCULLY moved for copies of all correspond-
ence between the Thurles board of guardians and
the Poor-law Commissioners in Ireland, between
the Ist day of January and the 10th day of March,
1851, relative to the refusal by the Poor-law Commis-
sioners to allow the board of guardians to increase the
employment of the inmates in remunerative labour ; and
return of the number of inmates in the different work--
houses in Ireland, specifying their ages between 7 and 15,
15 and 20, 20 and 40, and 40 and upwards, the different
sexes, the number of able-bodied, aged and infirm.
Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE asked the Hon.
Gentleman to postpone his motion till he had an
opportunity of communicating with the department
to which it referred. He had no doubt the returns
would bo readily granted, but as an act of courtesy the
Poor-law Commissioners ought to be consulted first,
before the House acceded to the motion.

Mr. SCULLY could not comply with the request of
the Right Hon. Baronet, as the motion he had made
was one of considerable importance to Ireland and
would admit of no delay. (Oh, oh !) The Thurles
board of guardians were anxious to employ the numerous
inmates in the union workhouse, so as, if possible, to ma'.
it a self•supporting establishment. On the Ist of March,
18 .1, there were in the house no fewer than 700 able males,
and 1.500 adult females. The guardians had had some com-
munication with the Board of Manufactures and Industry
in Dublin, with the object of givink the inmates useful and
reproductive employment. The Thurles board of guardians
were prepared to make advances for this purpose, but the
Poor-law Commissioners wrote, and imperatively forbade
the design. They objected to the rewards and stimulants
by which the guardians hoped to encourage the industry of
the inmates. The board wished to form a fund from this
reproductive employment tor the promotion of emigration,
but the Poor-law Commissioners objected to this, on
the ground that there would be such an increase in the
applications for relief, and in the expcnditur, as to make
the rates very oppressive to the smaller ratepayers.
It was right the House should know whether the
Government adopted this principle of preventing boards
of guardians from making use of the labour of
the inmates in the workhouses, and making these establish-
ments self-supporting. Let the board of guardians have due
authority to use the power they possessed of employing the
inmates of the workhouses as they thought proper, and he
believed that not only would it be the means of raising Ire-
land, and giving a stimulus to those who lived there, but,
through that source of industrial education, would confer a
blessing on the country.
Sir G. GREY was not aware that there was any objection
to this motion, but he would recall to the recollection of
the House what his Right" Hon. Friend the Secretary for
Ireland had stated before the motion was brought on, that
on Tuesday, when the Hon. Gentleman gave notice of his
motion, he had written to Dublin on the subject, and that
there had not yet been time to receive an answer. He
would therefore move that the debate be adjourned to that
day week.
The debate was adjourned accordingly.

SUNDAY TRADING.
On the motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the following Mem-
bers were named as a Select Committee on the Sunday
Trading Prevention Bill :—Mr. W. Williams, Mr. B. Wall,
Mr. Anstey, Sir De Lacy Evans, Sir W. Clay, Sir B. Hall,
Mr. Alderman Humphery, Mr. Masterman, Mr. WakleY,
Lord R. Grosvenor, Mr. Alcock, Lord H. Lennox, Mr
Bankes, Mr. Kershaw, and Sir David Dundas.

ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL.
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the order of the day far the second reading of the Ec-
clesiastical Titles Bill,
Lord J. MANNERS presented a petition from Colchester,
praying that the Bill might be rendered more effective.
'1 he debate was then resumed by
Mr. NEWDEGATE, who said that the part of the subject
to which he wished to call the attention of the House was the
aggression on the temporal sovereignty and civil indepen
a
deuce of this nation which had been committed by the agent
of Rome. Let the House remember, that although the
Bishop of Rome had taken upon himself to establish in thithose
country a hierarchy under the plea that the body of
who were adherents of that religion of which they deemed
sent
him the head, required it, he bad, moreover, here a
cardinal, a privy councillor, selected from his senate as a
legate, to regulate, preserve, and extend his temporal au-
thority. Already that had had its effect. The Noble Lord
in his opening speech adverted to the wide ran ge adopted
fur its operation by the Synod of Thurles, and that that
synod had entered into that vast social and civil question
between lardlord and tenant, which was so intricate, so
dangerous, and so deep, that as yet that House, the legi-
timate Legislature of the country, had shrunk fro he
inter-
fering with it. But that synod, in so interfering in social
affairs of Ireland, merely obeyed the bidding of the Popws
legate in that country. He wanted to show that in this
ate
country Cardinal Wiseman was also a leg of the Pope
—a legate a Were, armed with still
`
ewwider tepo)waenrds
tem-
poral believed,
merely delayed interfering with our social,
civil,
poral affairs until that House should have separated for the
recess. That part of the question had scarcely been touched
upon by any other speaker than himself; and, as he was
both a layman and a Protestant, he hoped the HottSe Would