The Sun.
London, England, 1851-08-01 00:00:00

MITTEE BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the second
reading of this Bill, said that as considerable arrears had
taken place in the appeal business before the Court of
Chancery it had been thought desirable to increase: the
judicial staff for dealing with that business. The means
which had at first been suggested for carrying out that
object had led to considerable difference of opinion; but
after much discussion and consideration the present Bill
had been brought forward, and had been fortunate enough
to receive the approbation of all those whese attention
had been directed to the subject. The main object of
the Bill was to create new judges for hearing appeal
cases, and it would also provide that those judges shol;ld

nal/ e

be members of the Judicial Committee. The duties of
that Committee had become exceedingly important, and
it had therefore been thought desirable that its members
should receive the aid of the new judges when these
judges should not be engaged in the Court of Chan-
cery. The Bill did not deal with the general question
of the administration of justice in that court, and their
Lordships were no doubt aware that a Commission
which had recently been appointed was at present en-
gaged in investigating that important subject. He was
authorised to state that a Noble and Learned Lord (Lord
Lyndhurst, we believe), on whose opinion the House de-
servedly set a very high value, decidedly approved of
the Bill then under their Lordship? consideration, and
that it had also met with the approval of another Noble
and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham, we believe) then
absent from indisposition. All those legal gentlemen,
who had given an opinion upon the subject, had also
expressed themselves in favour of the measure. He
trusted, therefore, that their Lordships would see no
reason to refuge their assent to the second reading of the
Bill. He would take that opportunity of correcting an
erroneous impression which very generally prevailed, to
the effect that hardly any attempt had been made in re-
cent times to improve the administration of justice in the
Court of Chancery. The truth was that for a period of
more than 20 years the attention of the heads of that
court had been constantly directed to that subject, and
that a series of great improvements had been the result of
those labours. In the year 1824 Lord Eldon, who had
at that time been Lord Chancellor, had caused a Com-
mission to be appointed for the purpose of inquiring ge-
nerally into the practice of the Court of Chancery, and
that Commission, which had consisted of between twenty
and thirty legal gentlemen of the highest distinction,
after an inquiry which had lasted two years, had pro-
duced, as the result of its labours, ,an immense folio
volume, containing a vast number of most useful sug-
gestions. In the year 1827 Lord Lyndhurst had suc-
ceeded to the office of Lord Chancellor, and that Noble
and Learned Lord, after having directed his attention to
the report of the Commission appointed under Lord
Eldon, had in the year 1828 issued a number of orders
for expediting and cheapening business in the Court of
Chancery. In the year 1830 an Act had been passed
for the purpose of improving the jurisdiction of that
court, and also for the purpose of amending the prac-
tice of the court in regard to commitments for con-
tempt. That latter measure, which was known as Sir B.
Sugden's Act, had very,,much mitigated the severity of
the law in relation to those commitments. In the year
1832, Lord Brougham had become Lord Chancellor, and
in the year 1833 that Noble and Learned Lord had is-
sued a great number of orders for improving the practice
of the Court. There had been issued altogether, since
the Great Seal had been committed to Lord Lyndhurst,
not less than between 500 or 600 orders for the accom-
plishment of the same object. In the year 1840, Lord
Cottenham had issued an additional number of those
orders. Since that time three or four Acts of Parliament
had been passed for the purpose of diminishing the ex-
pense of suits in the Court of Chancery, and of facilitat-
ing the transaction of business in that Court. When he
(the Lord Chancellor) had last year been raised to the
office which he had then the honour to fill he had issued
30 or 40 orders; and he believed that no one was more
convinced than he was that the administration of justice
ought to bo improved to the utmost possible extent. A
committee, consisting of seven or eight legal gentlemen,
had some time since been appointed for the purpose of
inquiring into the best means of improving the ad-
ministration of justice in the Court of Chancery; and
to that commission there had lately been added, on
the recommendation of the House of Commons, two lay
gentlemen, whose labours, in co-operation with those
of members of the legal profession, would, he trusted,
lead to the most valuable results. Much, no doubt, still
remained to be done for the improvement of the Court of
Chancery; but the complaint that nothing had hitherto
been done for the attainment of that object was utterly
unfounded. He believed that the only ground for sur-
prise was that so much had been done in that way, in
spite of the great complexity and extent of the interests
with which the Court of Chancery had to deal. All the
former commissions which had inquired into that sub-
ject had been authorised to deal merely with the prac-
tice of the Court, while the present commission would
also address itself to the jurisdiction of the Court, with a
view to ascertain what alterations might with advantage
be effected in that jurisdiction. He believed that the
Bill then before them would be productive of consider-
able advantage, by adding to the appellate force in the
Court of Chancery, and by enabling the Lord Chancel-
lor to give more of his attention than he could heretofore
have given to the business which came before their
Lordships. He trusted that, under these circumstances,
they would have no hesitation in assenting to the second
reading of the measure.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said he believed it was well
known that although his Noble and Learned Friend then
absent from the House (Lord Lyndhurst) approved of
the Bill as far as it went, he regarded it as merely a
small step in the right direction. There was one impor-
tan Spoint to which he (the Earl of Aberdeen) wished
to call the special attention of their Lordships. More
than two-thirds of the appeal cases which were brought
before the House came from Scotland. Now under all
the circumstances of the case it was surprising how well
the cases were disposed of, and he believed that the de-
cisions with respect to them had given on the whole
very great satisfaction. But still the state of appeals
from Scotland was not altogether unobjectionable. He
had no doubt but the Noble and Learned Lord on the
woolsack would do all that could be done to effect reform
in that particular branch of the administration of justice.
The mode in which the English judges had adminis-
tered the law on appeals from Scotland, it was admitted,
had given general satisfaction to that country. But
there was one point particularly to which he wished to
direct consideration, and that was the manner in which
appeals in some instances stayed execution of the sen-
tence. He believed that up to some years ago the same
was the case in England; but in Scotland the fact of
appeals stopping the execution of the sentence gave en-
couragement, in many instances, to the entering of ap-
peals. He thought the suggestions which he had thrown
out were worthy the Noble and Learned Lord's con-
sideration.
Lord CRANWORTH said he did not think they could
venture to make any change in the practice of an appeal
from the Court of Session, Scotland, to that House,
without great danger; and more especially as the admi-
nistration of justice in that place had been acknowledged
to give unmixed satisfaction in Scotland. His own ex-
perience fully satisfied him that the general principles of
the laws of different countries differed much less than
was supposed. The appeals from Scotland, as now con-
ducted, gave general satisfaction, and he did not think
any great change could be effected with advantage. Com-
plicated inquiries into property, and the administration of
justice with respect to important and varied claiins,
would alway be tedious and expensive, and that was no
reason why they should not do all they could to make
such improvements as the circumstances of the case
permitted.

- The LORD CHANCELLOR, in briefly replying, ob-
served that not long since a deputation from Scotland
had waited on him on the subject of the anomaly of the
law between the two countries in the matter of appeal,
but all the suggestions which had been made by the Fa-
culty of Advocates and others had been inefficacious to
afford a practical remedy, and so matters stood as they
had been. The suggestion, however, of the Noble Earl
with respect to the staying of execution was worth at-
tention, and should receive his serious consideration.
The Bill then before the House would cause a great im-
provement in the administration of justice in the Court
of Chancery here.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.

MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved the second
reading of the above Bill, the objects of which he briefly
stated. One of the objects of the Bill was to secure
medical advice and assistance to poor persons in places
where the present state of the law would leave them
totally unprovided unless a certain amount of local sub-

•criptions should have been contributed. It was proposed
to put all the medical charities under the supervision of
a central board, and to constitute the Poor-law Commis-
sioners that controlling power. The country was to be
subdivided into districts for the purposes of the Act.
The motion was understood to have been put and
agreed to.
INTRAMURAL INTERMENTS.

Lord MONTEAGLE begged to ask a few questions
of a Noble Earl whom he saw in his place, or his Noble
Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, on a
subject of the greatest importance, and upon which it
was fitting some more definite information should be

conveyed to the House than bad been already laid before
it. His questions related to interments in the metropo-
lis, a matter of so much consequence that her Majesty
had alluded to it in the Royal Speech at the close of last
session. After referring to the Act of last session, and
a report describing the unwholesomeness and dangerous
condition of some of the churchyards of the metropolis,
the Noble Lord asked his Noble Friend opposite (the
Earl of Shaftsbary) what had been the cause of the de-

lay in carrying out the Act—what steps had been taken
to put the Bill of last year in force, or whether matters
were to be left in their present position?
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said he felt very deeply
the delay which had occurred between the passing of
the Act referred to and its being carried into full
.opera-
don, because the statements made of the condition of
many localities in this vast and crowded metropolis were
by no means exaggerated. Every day's experience con-
vinced the Board of Health of the wisdom and practical
utility of the measure which had been carried. The
Board of Health had been charged with neglect and de-
lay, but he could fully rebut that accusation by a brief
statement of the progress of their proceedings since the
Act first passed. On the very day it received the Royal
assent the board had met to take proceedings under it, and
they had published advertisements giving all the necessary
notices to parties interested, in order that they might
not be taken by surprise. They had extended the time of
notice from six weeks to two months. Some members
of the board had then gone to Paris, for the purpose of
obtaining all the information they could on the subject,
and had then put themselves in communication with the
cemetery companies of London, as required by the Act ;
but these companies had refused to give them any docu-
ments or any information by which they might arrive at
an estimate of their probable
valuation. They had sub-
divided the metropolis also into districts, and made all
the arrangements necessary for carrying the Act into
operation. On the 23d of November the board had pre-
pared a full scheme for bringing the Act into force,
which they had laid before the Treasury. Every one
had approved, not only of the necessity, but the practi-
cability of the plan suggested, which involved the ex-
pediency of the inamedsate purchase of all the ceme-
teries. No reply had been received to that proposal
until the 22d of January, upon which a correspond-
ence had taken place, acd on the 20th of March the
board had received permission to proceed as they had
suggested, but they were recommended to purchase
the cemeteries not altogether, but separately. They had
then served notice on one of those economizes, end the

most tedious proceedings which the Act sanctioned had
been adopted, and these were at the present moment
going on. Up to the moment at which he was address-
ing their Lordships the awards bad not been made. In
the meantime the board proceeded to take estimates for
new cemeteries, and on the 28th of April were commis-
sioned by the Treasury to purchase ground. On the
13th of May the board applied to the Treasury for per-
mission to contract a loan from the Guardian Assurance
Company, and obtained their permission, but they did
not receive the answer of that company till the 18th of
June, when they declined to lend any money to a body
whose existence was limited to a period of five years. On
the 9th of June permission was obtained to negotiate a
loan with the Royal Exchange Assurance Company, but
no answer was received till the 24th, when they said the
security was not sufficient. On the 3d of July copies of
the letters from the directors of the Royal Exchange So-
ciety were sent to the Treasury. Oa the 10th a final an-
swer was received from the directors, and was forwarded
to the Treasury. Not a moment, he undertook to say, had
been wasted by the board. The proposal made by the board
was that they should have a commission with a permanent
existence and complete control over all funerals. The
Government altered that plan by referring that part
of the proposal to the Board of Health, and by intro-
ducing a clause with respect to the second part, which
left the plan open to the objections of the Royal Ex-
change Company; and yet the board were told that it
was in consequence of their neglect and of the crudeness
of their scheme that all these difficulties had occurred.
He was never more surprised in his life than he was
when informed that a high authority in the Govern-
ment considered the scheme a bad one. He declared
solemnly that he had never heard from any member of
the Government that they considered the scheme a bad
scheme. The board had communicated the difficulties
the very instant they were brought to their knowledge;
and he maintained that it was not owing to the board
that the delays had occurred. He did not care one
straw for any attack made on himself in consequence of
the part he had taken in administering the Act, but he
must say, in defence of his two colleagues, Mr. Chad-
wick and Dr. Southwood Smith, that he never knew two
more diligent, upright, and intelligent men than they
were. They had not been defended by those who could
have spoken on their behalf, and he felt for them what he
did not feel or oare about as regarded himself. In justice
to himself, to his colleagues, to the board, and to the
public, he maintained there ought to be laid on the
table a full and authentic copy of all the correspondence
on the subject, and then it would be seen whether the
Board of Health were justly to be blamed.
The Earl of CARLISLE did not mean to enter into
the merits of the question, because he was not cognizant
of all the different negotiations and transactions which
had taken place between the Board of Health and the
Treasury. With reference to any expression which
might have fallen from the high authority referred to by
the Noble Earl, he was willing to hope that some misap-
prehension existed, because he knew that the members
of the Government generally were most anxious for the
success of this measure, to which they themselves had
been parties. For himself, he had stated his deep re-
gret that circumstances had hitherto prevented a more
rapid progress being made. He needed not to acquaint
the Noble Earl of the circumstances which had interfered
with public business in the other House, and which had
prevented the introduction of various measures—one on
this subject, among others—which otherwise would have
been introduced. He believed that a Bill calculated to re-
move some of the difficulties, though he feared the Noble
Earl would not think it calculated to remove all the dif-
ficulties, was actually in progress through the other
House. With regard to the board, it was well known it
had most obnoxious duties to perform—that it had to
point out defects and call attention to Inches, and per-
haps it had incurred a considerable amount of obloquy,
but that obloquy, he was convinced, it had incurred in
consequence of the straightforward discharge of the du-
ties entrusted to it. He did not claim for the members
of it exemption from error, but be believed no other
persons could have been found who would have more
zealously devoted themselves to the management of
all those interests with which Parliament had entrusted
them.

The Earl of HARROWBY thought the Government
were to blame for not having come forward to defend
the members of the Board of Health. He believed the
members of the Government in their Lordships' House
were zealous and sincere in their wish to carry out the
Act, but he had good reason to believe that other mem-
bers of the Government had taken opportunities, not to
promote the measure, but to throw difficulties in the way
of it. He wished to know whether there would be any
objection to the production of the Treasury minutes on
the subject.

Earl-GREY said that the Noble Earl had pronounced
a severe censure on some members of the Government,
but he submitted that such charges ought not to have
been made, except at the proper time—after notice, and
with full information on the table. With regard to the
production of the minutes, he could not give a positive
answer without communicating with the members of
the Government in connexion wifh the board. He did
not think there would be any objection to the produc-
tion of them, but thought that, if produced, other papers
would require to be produced at the same time. No
one was more persuaded than he was of the good inten-
tions of the members of the board, but he doubted
whether, in their eagerness to accomplish a great re-
form, they had not a little too much neglected minor
advantages which might have been immediately ob-
tained. Upon that point he was not prepared to offer
a positive opinion.

Lord M6NTE A.GLE thought the explanation of the
Noble Earl opposito (the Earl of Shaftesbury) fully
acquitted him of any charge of having neglected his
duties.

MINES AND COLLIERIES.
Lord WHA.RNCLIFFE rose to move for a return of
the names of the inspectors appointed under the Act of
last session for the inspection of collieries, together with
the districts and salaries assigned to them, and the in-
structions issued for their guidance. He believed that
under that Act thirty inspectors had been appointed;
that salaries had been assigned to them—their districts
marked out, and that they had for some time been occu-
pied in the discharge of their duties. As the Commit-
tee had recommended that the greatest publicity should
be given to all information regarding the management
of mines and collieries, he wished to know if Govern-',
ment were prepared to produce any, and to lay on the
table this session whatever information they had re-
ceived on the subject in the shape of reports from the
inspectors.
The Earl of CARLISLE said he had no objection to
the motion. Tho inspectors were to report at the end of
a year, but that period of time had not elapsed since their
appointment. The Government, however, anxious to ob-
tain as much information on the subject as possible, had
directed the inspectors to prepare a general report
from the date of their appointment to the 24th June.
Two reports had been received, and two more were ex-
pected in a few days. Ho had no objection to lay the
two which had been received on the table. He was
happy to say that considerable good had been effected
since the appointment of the inspectors. The proprie-
tors of mines and collieries had received their visits with
great goodwill, and had promptly complied with their
suggestions.

Yid NELSON presented petitions in favour of the
preservation of the Crystal Palace.
On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, the
Ecclesiastical Property Retention (Ireland) Bill was read
a third time and passed.
The Nosix and LEARNED LORD then presented a pe-
tition from the Associated Law Society, praying that
the salaries of the judges might be paid out of the Con-
solidated Fund instead of out of the Suitors' Fee Fund.
Adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, July 31.
Continued from our Fifth Edition of yesterday.)
THE EPISCOPAL AND CAPITULAR ESTATES
MANAGEMENT (No. 2) BILL.
Bill,
On the motion for the second reading of this
Colonel SIBTHORP objected to going on with a Bill
of this importance at so late a period of the session. The
attempt to smuggle it through was certainly very suspi-
cious. He thought it was unbecomicg,
to say the least of it,
for the Government to persist in pressing it forward. lie
should, therefore, take the sense of the House upon the
question that this Bill be read a second time this day six
months.
Sir B. HALL thought that before they went on with
this Bill they ought to have an explanation from the
Government of what was the real
opinion of the Com-
missioners who had been appointed to inquire into the
subject, since the Bill was certainly not founded on the
report which they had presented.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not see what objection there could
be to the present Bill,
since every improvement which it proposed was not
for the benefit of any particular bishop, but for the
Church in general. The scheme of the Bill was in
his opinion a far better scheme than the ono
recommended by the Commissioners.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that, though he was fully alive
to the importance of putting all the bishops on a footing
of certainty and equality, still he hoped that those who
had charge of the Bill would not press forward with
indecent haste to carry this measure of so great im-
portance. It was said that it was only permissive.
Why that he thought was the worst part of it. It
should be borne in mind that there were two parties, the
lessor and the lessee, and by some of the provisions of
this Bill the interests of the poorer, lessee would be alto-
gether disregarded. He, therefore, thought it better to
postpone the Bill till next session.
Mr. SPOONER considered that the measure would be
useful, and agreed with its principles, but he objected to
the details of it.
Mr. MULLINS was perfectly of the same opinion as
the Hon. Member for Warwickshire
theS Billpoonera).t
this
Mr. CARD WELL objected to pressing
late period of the session. Ho agreed with the principle
of the Bill, as it would tend to increase the revenue of
the Church, and to throw that revenue into a common
fund.
Mr. ANSTEY hoped that the Bill would not be with-
drawn this session.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
no pledge of his Right Honourable Friend, the Secretary
for the Home Department, could apply to this bill. for
his Right Hon. Friend had not been in the House since
it had been brought forward.
Mr. CARTER gave a qualified support to the Bill,
which he considered required considerable improvement
in various details affecting lessees.
Sir T. COLEBROOKE doubted the propriety of
passing a Bill of this kind, without its having some defi-
nite principle laid dow as to the conditions on which the
communication of fines should be made.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the objections to
thc Bill appeared to be against its details, and not
against its principle; and on the second reading of the
Bill it was hardly fair to discuss the clauses. The prin-
ciple was, to enable parties to effect an enfranchisement
of holdings, if they so desired; so that there might be
an actual sale and parting with the property. The mea•

sure could not in any way preju lice lessees, becauge
those who wished might obtain a renewal of their• lease
from the ecclesiastical bodies with whom they had to
deal. As to the details, it might be asked why not at
once lay down the rules which were to govern them.
His answer was, that a very great number of matters
were to be taken into consideration, which it was not de-
sirable to embody in the Bill. There were, for in-
stance, leases of titles, leases in the north, and leases in
the south of England, which were placed on a very dif-
ferent footing from each other. There were also leases
of mines, leases of houses, and various other matters re-
specting which experience, as the measure came into
operation, would be requisite in order to deal advanta-
geously with them.
Mr. HENLEY objected to the sort of legislation
which the measure introduced.
Mr. BARRON objected to the second reading of the
Bill.

Lord PALMERSTON said the discussion which had
taken place should lead the House to the second reading
of the Bill with the view of discussing the details in
Committee. All agreed that the principle was good,
the objections expressed being only to the details of the
Bill, and even those who wish the Bill to stand over until
next session ought to vote for its second reading, in
order that in Committee they might be able to state
their objections to its details, so that the measure might
go to the country with such amendments as Hon. Gen-
tlemen desired to effect in it. He thought the House
in the present session might shape the measure so as
to free it from every objection, but even those who
thought otherwise ought to vote for the second reading of
the Bill.
Mr. B. DENISON said there was no chance that the
Bill could proceed this session, and it was better to post-
pone it altogether.
In reply to Mr. FORSTER,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Bill did apply to mines.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it ... ... 34
Majority for the second reading ... —ll
Sir B. HALL complained of the late period of the
session at which all Bills affecting the temporalities of
the Church were brought before the House, and then
hurried through it with indecent haste. The 3d and 4th
William IV., for instance, received the royal assent 011
the 14th August, 1833. The 3d and 4th of Victoria, 0.
113, received the royal assent on the 11th of August.
1840, and he might state a case which showed in a re-
markable manner the operation of the system. A
deanery was attached to a bishopric, and it had been re-
commended by the Commissioners that the deanery
should be abolished. The Bill which should effect that
object was passed through all its stages on Saturday,
the 9th of August, and on Monday, the 11th, it received
the royal assent. The bishop, however, was installed on
the intervening Sunday, and thus defeated the intention
of the Bill. He mentioned these to show the necessity
for the laiety being allowed time to consider Bills of this
character, and in the present they should have an op-
portunity of considering what they would have to pay
in the cases contemplated by the Bill; for he saw by
one of the clauses the Commissioners were to settle the
whole of the payment, the Commissioners being na
other than the bishops, in whom the public had lost all
confidence in their capacity as Commissioners. He pro-
tested, then, against the Government bringing forward
the measure, and he pledged himself to use every mean'
to retard its progress if they pressed it this session.
It was an attempt on the part of the bishops to enforce a
moat arbitrary price for land, and they have not the de'
cency to enable members of the laity to communicate
with the lessees on the subject. Let the House, then,
come to the further consideration of the Bill with the
full understanding that it should not be brought to s
third reading this session.
Colonel SIBTHORP considered it a most ungrateful
attempt on the part of the Government to force on this
Bill at so late a period of the session.
Mr. AGLIONBY would endeavour to amend the Bill,
and if he did not succeed in his effort, then he would ell'
deavour to have it postponed until next session.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was de"
sirous to aid Members in improving the Bill, and in re-
medying any defects that could be pointed out in it.
Mr. J. A. SMITH understood that the Bill was to be
no more than a permissive Bill.
The Bill was ordered to be committed at one o'clock
to-morrow.
The New Zealand Settlements and Lunatics Bill to
be read a third time to-morrow.
The Canada and New Brunswick Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Canterbury Association, Nuisances Removal and
Diseases Prevention Bill, were read a second time.
PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The consideration of this Bill in Committee was re-
sumed.
Colonel DUNNE charged the Government with breach
of faith in consenting to withdraw that portion of clause
10 which proposed to give magistrates power to act sum-
marily in cases of felony.
Some verbal amendments were made in two or three
of the clauses, and the Bill went through Committee.
Mr. KINDERSLEY, Master in Chancery, brought uP
several Bills from the Lords.
The House then went into Committee on the Summary
Jurisdiction (Ireland) Bill, the several clauses of which
were agreed to, with a few verbal alterations, and the
House resumed.

TIT COLLECTION OF FINES, &0., (IRELAND)
BILL.

This Bill, as amended, was considered, and ordered to
be read a third time to-morrow.
CONSTABULARY FORCE (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion that the House go intu Committee on
the Constabulary Force (Ireland) Bill,
Mr. CONNOLLY presented a petition from the grand
jury of the county of Donegal, complaining of the limited
force of the constabulary in the county as compared with
the population.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
Mr. F. FRENCH said he felt it to bo his duty to op-
pose the Bill, against which he protested as moat unjust
in principle. Ho hoped some notice, however short,
would be taken of what he was about to say
hear.) The object of the Bill was to abolish the office
of paymaster of the constabulary force in Ireland, an
office which had been created in 1846. As long as the
officers appointed to the office had been paid by Ireland,
the Government did not interfere; but the moment the
payment of these officers was fixed on the Consolidated
Fund, then in stepped the Lords of the Treasury with
a Bill for the abolition of the office of Paymaster of Oa
Constabulary Force. Eighteen gentlemen now held the
situation of paymaster of the force in Ireland, and were
appointed to hold the office during good behaviour.
Those gentlemen had broken up their establishments
and entered on the duties of the situation in confident
expectation that provision would be made for
them in consideration of their services, and amongst,
them was Captain Galbraith, an officer who had
served in the Peninsular war. From the army he went
in 1819 into the constabulary, in which he discharged
with credit the duties of the several positions to which
he was advanced. He had then served thirty years in
the constabulary force—a service which should entitle
him to a pension of at least 2501. a year; but it was nor
proposed by her Majesty's Government to retire this
gentleman, who had more than thirty years' service, and
a wife and ten children, on a pension of 401. a year.
He considered that it was unjust in her Majesty's Go-
vernment thus to treat an officer who had served so long
a period with credit, and who, when appointed to the
situation of paymaster, expected that due provision
would be made for him. In the army, when a gentle-
man was appointed to a situation, and when the officewas in time abolished, he fell back on his half-pay. 10°
(Mr. French) had been told, by Members of the Ge"
vernment, that if he persevered in the course which be
was taking, he would, instead of serving those gentle-
men, do injury to their cause; but he felt that ho was
but doing his duty, and that great injustice was bein6
done by the Government in the matter.—(" Hear, hear,
from:the Irish Members.) He should, under
all the
circumstances, oppose the Bill at a future stage, unless
justice were done to those gentlemen who had been BP'
pointed to the office of paymaster of the constabulary
force in Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
state very shortly the particulars of the case. The Hon.
Member had stated that the Government did not take
any step to abolish the office of paymaster of the con-
stabulary force in Ireland, until the payment of the office
became chargeable on the Consolidated Fund. Now the
fact was that the payment of the office was always
charged upon the Consolidated Fund; and when the Go-
vernment found that the duties of the office could be dis-
charged at a less expensive rate, it was their duty to
abolish it, and to adopt that cheaper mode. In cases of
superannuation, there was a fund from which provision
was made; but when an office was to be abolished, cer'
tain reductions were necessarily to be made in conside-
ration of the compensation to be given. If the Hon.
Member should persevere in his course, he must se/
that he would altogether take out of his (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer's) hands the power of compensating
the officers in whose behalf the Hon. Member was in-
terested.

Mr. BROTIIERTON said that if the Honourable
Member for Roscommon succeeded in postponing tin'
Bill, he hoped another Bill would be introduced next
session, rendering the management of this matter in Ire-
land more consistent with justice. In Ireland the expense
of the constabulary was thrown upon the consolidated
fund, whereas in England it was borne by the counties
and boroughs.
Colonel DUNNE observed that the appointment of
these officers was about as great a job as was ever Per,'
petrated. He hoped that there would be a proper rev
sion of them.

Mr. CONOLLY brought forward the following
clause, though not for the purpose of opposing the Bill
—"And whereas by an Act passed in the eleventh and
twelfth year of the reign of her present Majesty,
inti-
tuled, An Act to amend the Ants relating to the con-
stabulary force in Ireland, and to amend the provisions
for the payment of special constables,' it is amongst other
things provided that the total number of officers and well
shall not for each county, city, or town, exceed the num"
ber specified in the schedule (A) thereto annexed, for
each county, city, or town therein named; and whereas
it is expedient to alter said schedule with reference t°
the population of such counties, cities, or towns. Be
it therefore enacted that; the Lord-Lieutenant of
chief governor or governors of Ireland may alter from
time to time the number in said schedule specified for.
each county, city, or town; provided always that sash
alteration shall not be made more than once in every
period of ten years; and provided also that the nualbe`,.
so specified shall not in any case exceed one to every
of the population as given in the census next Pre,
.
seeding such alteration." It was absurd to contend that
with the great diminution of the population of Ireland
that had recently been exhibited in the census the nur.
ber of the constabulary should remain dogmatically t"o
,
same. He proposed, by this clause, to leave theol
proper amount of the force in each district, at the di":o.


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