The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-21 00:00:00

an Act prospective and imperative. Not long since the
Secretary for Ireland had written to the law officers there,
calling their attention to it. Their attention had been
directed to it and they found that it was impera-
tive, and that they were bound by it. It was
an Act, however, that was most easily evaded, and
always had been evaded. No attempt bad ever been msde
to prevent its being evaded, and that was the reason, in all
probability, why it had existed as a law so long. He was
not prepared to pledge himself to bring in any Bill at pre-
sent with a view to alter or abolish it.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that in 1800 it was made an
annual Act—it had been continued annually for some time
down, but was universally supposed that it had long since
expired. As to himself, he had no idea that such an Act was
in existence, until the present notice of motion had been
given. The Hon. and Learned Member then put two
questions to the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, re-
specting the measure, the effects of wlsich be had detailed
last night, neither of which we distinctly heard, from the
bustle and confusion that prevailed in the House at the

time.
Mr. LITTLETON submitted to the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, and to the House, the propriety of abstaining
from putting questions upon this subject until the Bill
was before them, which would be introduced in about

three days at the latest.
Sir S. WHALLEY asked two questions of the Noble
Lord in the department of the Woods and Forests (Lord
Duncannon), but in so low a tone of voice, and the
noise in the House was so great, that they were
not audible in the gallery ; we understood them
relate to the accommodation which should be afforded
o the public by opening the Regent's Park.
i Lord DUNCANNON was also very imperfectly beard,
as were several succeeding Members. He was under-
tood to say that it was his wish that the public
41 hould be afforded every accommodation and convenience:
ut he could not advise his Majesty to order the Regent's
Park to be altogether thrown open, although he did intend
to recommend that that part which was between the road
and the canal on one bide should be opened.
Mr. RUTHVEN asked the Right Hon. Secretary for
Ireland if it was the intention of Government to carry
into effect the recommendation of the Ecclesiastical Com-
missioners, by uniting the Deaneries of Down and

Rathfoe?
Mr. LITTLETON said that was the intention of his
Majesty's Ministers, and that in a very few days the sub-
ject would be before the Lord Lieutenant and the Council.
Colonel VERNER, in allusion to a meeting for the
abolition of tithes in Ireland, which was held a short titre
ago, at which two magistrates were present, wished
to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's
Government to adopt any steps with respect to those

House if be were tol read a statement of the proportion
of all the counties from which the applications bad coin!
proportion of tithe owners ? answer that
Mr. LITTLETON was not re weed to
of the
question ;he would mention, however, a few a
TheyCamtl,
Catholics.
caod.,
ce come
NfrEo
LmL those
wished
is
hed counties
to
know
the
w most
what
h pa
te
was
l ae
sd
the
counties from which the fewest had come, and few,
f3nrao:abpapwn
applications
cli,,c7thi
o;
ntahened; lfarfrorgornems tT
yhLraoodon
dec,oonlm4d,ee..r
ruy
,Fe
we'll
reference to the proportions according to the se
nties
that had passed council, and obtained relief. from
from which the greatest proportion had come, were,lf6o;
Carlow 52 ;Dublin 54 ;Kildare 101 ; 'Olken" 62 ;
Meath 63 ; King's County 64; Queen., County ~ .
Wexford 198 ; Clare 144 ; Cork 303 ; Limerick 1q,13 ;
Tipperary 248 ; Waterford 279 ; and Galway 9g• and lay
;9Ap nefartkor itillget
dv
rote
iki
total amount claimed, including both clerical tithed a
impropeiate, was seven hundred thousand pounds and a free,
tion, and he thought little more than seven hundred thoussoa. ,
winouthldewficaorsv:ter the whole demand. The schedules many
;
cal-
to Government afforded the means of making many cli i
ulations, and showed many useful results, illustrativeoow
the present tithe system of Ireland. In order to sh
Ire-
how minute and general the payment of tithes in
lace called
how
frnorulatniplaiecdcoutnhetyabwowerieg:g hethe five
in i
land
largest amounts payable by each individual in each countP, i ,
In England, gentlemen knew pretty well what amount et
tithes was payable in good agricultural districts, but tbe o's
result was very different in Leland. In the countf '`
of Antrim, where some of the largest amounts were paid,'
there were not more than five individuals who psiw
more than 61. ss. 6d. ; in Armagh, not more than
five who paid more than 51. ss. 6d. ; in Donega/'
not more than five who paid more than 141. Even
in the county of Down there were not more than fin
who paid more than 91. 14,. ; in Londonderry, not more
than five who paid more than 5/. ; in Sligo, not more
than five who paid mere than 71. Bs. ; in Tyrooet
not more than five who paid more than 71. I,',
It was true that in one county there was one individual
who paid 501. ; in another county, one individual sobs
paid 601. ; and in another, one who actually paid, he be'
the lowest paid, from the statement already made.
had no doubt that had he called for a returns
of the 50)
fl
oiervme ds,olmse9/i.d—e
a(
oHfe air,
0,
w hear,scn small ear atrh)e—but
sums t hme
uHs
tobuese
is mighti
ten who paid the least, the sum would have ppeared verf
small indeed. To illustrate this statement still furtb.ertt.
Afte
r
a had called for an account of another description, 07,75,
a view to take an average amount of payment. r
~
enumerating several parishes, the Right Honourat.st:
Gentleman said, that in a parish of Galway, fo Iro,
stance, where there were 1,218 tithe PaYe ;
the average payment was 88. bd.; in Waterford this a".
rage was 6s. '7d. ; and those were amongst the larger,
payments. Then, by another schedule, containing„ol ,
P
number of names with the smallest ton'u-;`,
claimed, be found that in a parish in Alma%
consisting of four hundred and seventy tithe-PaYe'
they did not pay on an average more than Is. 3d. each'
In a parish in Clare, containing 529 tithe payers, ther,
did not pay more than ls. 71d. each. In a Par'''.
in Cork, containing three hundred and sixty-five 601:
payers, the average payment was not more than 10
er",
In Donegal, in a parish consisting of 1,700 tithe psYp;
the average payment was not more than Is. Bid. rot
parish in Kilkenny, consisting of 903 tithe payer's jog
more than ltd. In a parish in Londonderry, comPoaee,
1,243 tithe payers, they paid only 6d. on theaver 90,
In a parish in Mayo, consisting of 338 tithe Pap,
the average did not amount to more than le•_boirel
He had another account in his possession, which los do
the extreme poverty of many of the tithe payers, al.''
.01,
consequent difficulty which must be experienced
tl' v jo
letting the payments. There was a large P!
0110,4
20 parishes of different counties in
only ninepence each person. In a plarreilsahnciln whichtoh cwoho:fo
of Carlow, there were 446 thetithe-pia
cony of
289 paid under 9.1. Ina parish in , or. „ati
Clare, of 434 tithe-payers, 254 41
in the county of Cork, out of 1,270 tithe.payehr:,
so
paid under 9d., and many considerably less t °tithe'
of 205 of
sum ; in a parish in the King's County,
be 011131,1
payers, 97 paid under 9d.; in a parish in t
oder 9 d
Roscommon, of 243 tithe payers, 119 Paid 6 0 pisi
and in a parish in Tipperary, of 341 tithe payers It
tool
under 9d. Upon the whole, taking the average° poi
counties in Ireland, in which there were 7,005 tithe ieolaS
not less than 2,444 paid under 9d. each. Thege° tor
in the department from which he had his inform I
stated to him that in a parish in the e°1:,(491
Therewr
ahn i while
pi
were
fetrrhoeemal a
arggrefearartttholiialgt
numberb etro iat
Carlow, the whole amount due by 202 psfere 1r best'
paid under 9a. i "' ,p
was 10s. 311., being little better than a PeanY ,'.oe ea'
exhibited a large proportionoawhfailsoldifnengfa:uttahltaneebdrs°l:e:;[::::::ehet:r
had taken a schedule containing an inslue,, r 10
of small claims, and he bad counted about It
not more
the highest amount charged against whom Was.uere tfli
than twopence, and of that in some instances "aware i
several quarters due. The House ought to be,. g solltoi
the extreme difficulty there was in c11.n1°0011.4
of that amount, and particularly wbveinbi_:oasot:olo
the parishes there were not less than three Oa'
at 0000
of whom collected for himself. It was Warr:: of thtel
House should be acquainted with the Ott! b preflo
difficulties, independent of the agitation
co to that A rle'
in the country, for he did not attribute the ;neiplry,
although agitation of a cruel, unjust, and °Or" soy ro,
scription prevailed there. He did not alludeisttatirbed id
ticular person ; but that system hld ddeserieibet
peace of Ireland, and bad endangered that but for tO,
property. He was aware, however, that iooed s°od
agitation the existing system might have co/.1.03 eoiro
time longer, but from the difficulties Whi.,/,, teißm
there must shortly be some alteration. l'oed io roo
perhaps, be told that the Act which wasp tbss°"forielfl°.
litanhsett sessionhneu m difficultyber ho afdpoafcyacmuoselelnedtcst ai;o
nav,enrdbyesecoaFsai considerably abb la ed
teddi 0 to, i
bsod;
be admit...l;oe ore
It was not possible for him, without great ',art the 0,
inconvenience, to ascertain with precision "„, ceao
suits of that Act had been, but, as
he had obtained sufficient information grewto2e e,
give a pretty accurate notion of the result.
se
tied,
far as." able •
great nutnber of occupying tenants and th!) w_ti be,/
the Act of last session were liable to cooPositiOli_avirPouln
formation came fur all the counties in Irelaod• 17 astiec#
trouble the Committee with all the details o.u•sP FAO,
counties, but the general result from sixt„ro-i 0040
in 22 counties, in which there were 16,"''' 047 op
liable to the payment of tithes there Were :otlisj
tenants at will or yearly tenants, and as talC";), tf",
to its payment ; thereby reducing the number o •-%irlr. j
ableftrnfatuariarmohceeamin 'ntskcettofe(odalihfteci6nestttitelp,hl
ii2ifro:emtoii3tsiisprneielttsaii
tt(osttnnuoneer,9oteshf'sulelua
posed. He might
operation of the Act of last year ought to satisfy t'e that ~
h sufficient
a owesonpeof
th,e andya.rg
uthwaetotthe the r:ogiesuilb
_ri
reason to use arguments of expediency. He °DIY' 000
reductionwit
of
because the Government would never conse tebatiii
stance, and in the next to be
p9wpwppopoprehwoo.orishnprciaanteeht
rprgTstsopy:fo,lbaiefaets
that
toldincnt present
re
wastoa
that
i other
eal
collecting. offeredtl i
tec
ei
erui:tor:i!d:l
poses as Parliament in its wisdom should deem ~,,eatlthil
Having made these preliminary observations, r viitb3#
was moat important that all the facts connote nrootot
question should be declared, he would 001,..; relsi',i/.
detail the plan which it was the intention of nil greSt IP
bateh
applicable
rw ecyahsut or
cathbo anyon: Pc arty,;
teeoth:
eer
rd; :o ,
Government to lay before the Committee. roeso S,
and object of that measure would be to fin u Doer/ #
commuting Tithes in the quickest possible °lasi°,
by the most practicable process, by the ee,.11,. 0.14,
tithes into land. The first thing therefore 'o'f pre,4l?
went would be to confer on that description °,. of x.„l,
all the valuable security it was in the po!et"berefrni
ament to confer.—(Hear.) It was intended :03herfig,,
propose that from and after the first of t4°l- id .0'
tithe composition should cease in Ireland'
thaeny
and after that day a land tax should be gel
Majesty, payable by the same parties ceb°
subject to compositions for tithes, and PaY2
same amounts. For the first five yeas A
'tot'',
the landholders without injuring the titheho';
estate, parties
o n twe
rhi
no 9
easily reconciled. Of course one of the °":
measure would be to lid every possible
those on whom the charge of re
deroPl
fall, for meeting the different kinds °I l
Lfivaestl)y.e,arist, proposed
com etahartenwthpaateyvaebrle pbryoP.e:
land tax should continue unredeemed, at th.e,,,
standing next in the real interest of the ,
also that this indemnity should consist "'
ment of one-fifth of the composition, 50d et'
should be entitled, by a process hereafter tot' '
to recover the whole amount against the .„
party liable to composition. With reference '"
itwwswhhatosicuuhllddbhbeee
seen
that b
owt
ho would s
en be a
rie:
substantialwpthraoos
puogt
proposed
td he e
interestallowed
nt a

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