The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-26 00:00:00

of the our per Cents. He had set about that reduction in
we
most unbusiness-like and blundering. manner that ever
liytiadsbheead?rodof. He advertised his scheme in June ; and what
. How did he proceed to carry up the price of
ocks ? From the 11th of_ June to the end of that, and
throughout the ensuing month, he was found selling ten
thousand of stock a day. His sales of three-and-a-half per
edeat• ware at 95 and 96, and how -was it possible then, un-
taer such circumstances, that they could be other than losing
s les? Looking at the' ast returns, which came up to Nov.,
he found
ound that the Commiisioners of Savings' Banks had re-
-5,747,000/., and paid interest to 6,832,0001., and the
ff
heerence in the loss, therefore, between the amount received
and the interest paid to contributors, was 1,085,0001., and how
%las this to be made up without creating an artificial rise in the
v?eks? There the Noble Lord's surplus was really nothing.
hat would be done in the event of finding ourselves sud-
sdenly involved in a war ? Why, the fifteen millions in the
hands of the Savings' Banks Commissioners would very soon
e down to ten, inasmuch as stock would fall from 90 to 60.
jneie3bhetrged the GovernMent with three things; first, with
cia.l,ing; secondly, with carrying on their transactions in the
th. course the most unsatisfactory and unjust.; and
ntrulY, with the most stupid and palpable blundering in sell-
st°ek, when it ought to have been converted. The Noble
ird was the only Chancellor of thesExchequer that had ever
and he
in his operations in attempting the reduction of a stock,
h` he must say, that his measures and-mode of working them
ad excited the ridicule- of all those who were usually looked
PT.' as critics in these affairs.--( Hear, hear.)
s
etat
llaird ALT EIORP thought that the Hon. Gentleman him-
had( made one or two mistakes in his public transactions—
hear)--and that lie had added to those mistakes by
uhe had just addressed to the House. The Hon. Gentle-
man objected to his (Lord Althorp s) proceedings, on the
ground that they were contrary, if not to the letter, at all
ents to the spirit of the law. Now, in answer to this, he
;egged to state, that he applied to the gentleman who had for
sedum and years been employed in these transactions, and who
adopted him that he could • take the course that had been
ts:Pted without doing anything unusual, or in opposition to
:11 Acts of Parliament relating to these matters.--( Hear. )
tos to the operation itself, the Hon. Gentleman seemed also
Alisasb`mir under a mistake ;forhe.
supposed that his (Lord
erP's) mode of raisin.- stock was by selling stock. That
.rtainly was a mistake. ''He certainly had, at an early period,
directed a gradual sale of stock, but he certainly was not such
tiertionjuror as to do it with any such intent as that ascribed to
41 • Then there was a mistake as to dates ; the Hon. Gen-
sa
ofe an argued as if the dissentients to the proposed reduction
!he Four per Cents., declared their dissent in June, when,
4:aet, the last day on which the could do so was the 28th of
Stocks
Therefore, there could.not have been that effect on the
'elts which the Hon. Member supposed, and so there was
anothert mistake. With respect to the effect of his measures,
•aehe,gged leave to say, that instead of no advantage result-
Sh"orn them, as further stated by the Hon. Gentleman,
ock avings Banks had gained, on the 19th instant, on the
cheer
i sold to pay dissentients, a clear sum of 118,8771.—( Loud
Vl-) But the Hon. Gentleman said that this was the only
in fort e reduction of stock that had ever been known to
he The Hon. Gentleman was greatly mistaken.—( Hear,
tnar.) It had not failed. He had carried his plan, and begged
to say that he was prepared, without any difficulty whatever,
achPaY their respective amounts to every individual who chs-
teci•—( Loud cheers) Again, if the Hon. Gentleman
_ould look into the Bill• authorising this reduction of stock, he
:f°llsidavlnen find a specific power given to the Commissioners
them ,gs Banks to do that which he so severely censured
Hear, hear. ) Then the Hon. Gentleman corn-
aetilenned of the manner in which they had carried on their trans-
but s•--that they had not given sufficient publicity to them ;
g dike (Lord Althorp) begged to remind him, that there was
e nfirerenee in the quality of the duties of these gentlemen.
r functions as Commissioners for the reduction of the
ion
th at debt were wholly distinct from those which attached
fia/1
Sect ,Fm as Commissioners of Savings Banks. As the latter
llmaries they had to purchase and to sell—they were in
situ Position of bankers ; they were, however, in a very different
tie ati°4 in the former instance. By publishing their inten-
easils theY might raise the market against them, in which
„ e there certainly might be some ground for the charge
anl plendering. There was nothing in these transactions of
ttelinProPer or illegal character; nothing which told against
favouruntrY, but, on the contrary, much that was in its
the There was no ground for the charges made, or for
trans character which had been attached to the Government
ihiattoetviioenws by the Hon. Gentleman. The great object he
was that the prices of stock should be affected as
Ise- as possible, because of course it was clear that if they
whrerialfefected, the result would be to prevent him carrying his
themeasure into effect. He never thought of operating on
ssouPicri..ee of stock, or any such thing. He thought the House
that the the futility of the charges that had been made, a.n_d
of th ue mistakes were rather on the other than on that side
1-I°llse•—(Hear, hear.)
Nobir. BARING said that the simple fact was, that the
lop .ei!,ord had been selling at 95 or 96 to invest again at
14. e had been employing money in exchequer bills at
Per cent. interest per day, while he was in fact paying
deed i!el• If this would pay, then the Noble Lord must a
in-
Lord euniurer.
Bost d ALTHORP said the same operation had been re-
„ e to in
ue 1830 ; and in this instance, as he before stated,
Alan had been benefitted to the extent of 118,877/.
fir r• nERRIES said there was a misunderstanding. In the
I,: operation, as stated in the return, there must have been a
3; on the second there was enough to cover the loss, and
secure the clear profit referred to.
GOTJLBURN said he should preface the few obser-
r7lons it was his intention to address to the House by remind-
°n• Membors that he had ever maintained in the House
ea:Sul a time of peace the resources of the country, if properly
Ife4vated, would be found capable of considerable increase.
as-was therefore not surprised at the surplus which bad been
„"etared. To the financial statement of the Noble Lord,
s•'wever, he had still the same fundamental objection as he had
no step was taken for
tilett!l his previous ones, that
The a permanent impression upon the. debt of the country.dimi
e interest of that debt, he found, instead of being -
ter,O had he fact been increased during the last three years,
Y she compensation to the planters, and. other measures, to
4, extent of 200,0001. per annum. AS it appeared from the
ellab
encial account before them, the funded debt had been re-
IntTirtY convertingng a portion of it into annuities, to terminate
otici
years, from 749,000,000/. odd, to 743,000,000/.
Crease buy t
on the other hand, the unfunded debt bad been in-
std in a larger proportion. Thus, not only had n
of ZPt been made in the last few years to reduce the weight
of which had been called the mill-stone round the neck
alai° e country, but it had even had its weight increased,
sial ugh we had enjoyed profound peace and great commer-
thenPr°sPerity. With respect to the budget generally, he
ght that if the Noble Lord felt himself at liberty to make
co7ornreduction of taxation, it ought to be to that portion of the
Presssa,,ttitY which was, at the present moment, the most op-
and The Noble Lord had told them that the commerce
wase of the country was in a prosperous condition, and he
agrie'eieiced to hear it ; but he had not told them that the
tva
.ultural interest, either of this country or of the colonies,
Patin the same fortunate, situation. He had therefore to corn-
iasteaidu he did on a former occasion, that the Noble Lord had,
aPPlie-a °` applying relief to the classes which most required it,
setestaitscoo. it to those who were confessed to be in a prosperous
a
It would be difficult, upon merely hearing the
iloeolrhient of the Noble Lord, to go into a detailed argument
hpad C 4 IS
Plan respecting the duty upon spirits ; but a few points
•,,r
Lord uck its, him which he wished to remark upon. The Noble
spirits had said that notwithstanding the high rate of duty on
'taatl 19 England, the amount brought to account kept con-
whi4 increasing but that the duty of 3s. 4d. per gallon,
note
both in Scotland and Ireland, had been produc-
!?son%,very different results. That in Scotland the amount
,rela,,%', to charge was increasing under that duty, whilst in
Lorelh" i! was. decreasing. The conclusion at which the Noble
the ti an arrived in considering this circumstance was, that
tsas ,„utY on spirits in Ireland should be diminished. Now, he
tea rtet quite sure that upon looking narrowly into this ques-
th ere ~Would be found that in proportion to the consumption
4in Se 48 a greater extent of illicit distillation in Ireland than
she ,?tlend.
He did not know either upon what authority
u
so,it's4ed Noland.
Lord had arrived at the distinction he had de-
Lord
-Li T
.) krTHORP—That of the Commissioners of Excise.
,stiaaske ~ rs OULBURN said that he of course had only the or-
sources of information to judge from ; but he should
ItUrtion ask the Noble Lord whether he was aware what pro-
respe,.°f the spirit manufactured in Scotland and Ireland,
Lillof co`ogvly, Was exported to this countr. The Noble Lord
rs.ke knew that it had long been a complyint of the dis-
lers "nth of England and Ireland, that the Scotch distil-
ep,o. :re able, they themselves F aid, from superior skill, their
tie; said
therefor by frauds upon the revenue, to send their spi-
advantage to the Irish and English markets. Before,
btt Spirits 'he
could acquiesce in the proposed reduction of duty
tnitieit in Ireland alone, he should like to have some mote
give, tilmformation upon the subject than the Noble Lord had
4iffere cm•---( Hear.), The Noble Lord might tell him that a
ther tilt wish already prevailed with regard to England. and the
tnfacatititnhitsvtt portions of the United Kingdom. He admitted the
was an evil, and be would not increase the evil by
,eessisybhutese distinctions in duty, without a strong ground of ne-
Trlaety OatiZileg,ma.de out.. Besides,' unjust as the present rate of
rease,, colonial spirits was, how much would its injustice be
04relam 'l°Y a further reduction of the duty on spirits distilled in
.4,lL7ay v.iiie,R‘uvra was admitted. into the United Kingdom at one
P as calculated with reference to the heaviest duty
tbe,,d,ctiOrliounof
lion of England. The consequence was, that the
hardlyconsump-
Wduast3tin known in Scotland or Ireland. Every
tft.!lrarnount nec either of those countries, unless justified
thsetacolonial interesty was an infliction of drect injury upon
which under any circumstances, it was
that .4tY " this counts to 'uphold and encourage • but if ever
that in had a claimy ~,Lneaent, when
its fate hung in the balance as it now did, and
thss he defied
re result ef dbe
any man to say with certainty what would _
th ret to it.great measure Parliament had passed with
Before he sat down he wished to ask the Noble
si,s.o. a. 0ne„,!0.,
tSl4ivels tgs s.ai n with respect to the period of the payment
er planters were to receive for the liberation of their
inaneipatioCar, at'eipa,tiouarl. hear.) The success of the measure for the
el the „, °I the slaves, must depend, in a great degree,
lib: change"le:;is which the planters had of providing for
ratio circumstances which would attend their
d b,„ n• They would be put to great preliminary expenses,
Ikl sa-tirse therefore anxious to know whether the Government
estedat
tar for the payment of the parties inte-
41Teea, earliest possible period. If the payment was de-
st sn''dl9' might be inflicted both upon the public and the
ay fr a Planters which
may fro corii
ethe twenty millions would be a long
,at as
,_Pe nsating. The change in the condition oft e
be
a%Ween t„' made on the Ist of August, so that the inter-
(thy., that time and the meeting of Parliament would
'4l One. He did not put this question in a spirit of,