The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-01 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 28.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
The interior of the House presented the same appear-
ance as on Monday evening; the benches below and
above the bar were crowded with Hon Members, as were
also the side galleries.
NEW MEMBERS. _

Col. GILPIN took the oaths and his seat for Bedford-
shire.
Sir G. TYLER also took the oaths and his seat for
Glamorgan.' h ire.
METROPOLITAN MARKETS BILL.
Mr. CHILDERS moved the second reading of this
Bill.
Alderman SIDNEY moved that the Bill be read a
second time this day six months.
After a short conversation the House was cleared for
a division, but suboequen►ly the Bill was postponed until
this day week.
PETITIONS. _

Colonel FREESTUII;;;;;eI a petition from the
Catholics of Weymouth against the Papal Aggres-
sion Bill.
Mr. FAGAN also presented several similar petitions.
Lord ARUNDEL and SURREY presented 40 peti-
tions from the secular clergy of the Roman Catholic
Church in this country, and several petitions from other
parties, against the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.
Mr. MONSELL presented several petitions to the
same effect.
Mr. SULLIVAN also presented similar petitions.
Mr. STUART presented a petition praying that the
Ecclesiastical Titles Bill might not be extended to
Scotland.
Mr. ROCHE presented a great number of petitions
from the county of Cork against the Ecclesiastical
Titles Bill.
Mr. HENLEY presented a petition from a place in
Oxfordshire against the admission of Jews into Parlia-
ment.
Mr. HASTIE presented a petition from Glasgow in
favour of the abolition of the window-tax.
Mr. REYNOLDS presented a large number of pe-
titions from places in Ireland against the Ecclesiastical
Titles Bill, and several petitions from the Dublin news-
paper proprietors, praying for the repeal of the duty on
paper.
Mr. KEOGH presented a petition from Meath against
the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. Petitions to the same
effect were presented by Sir Joshua Walmsley, from
Bolton; by Sir E. Buxton, from Essex; Mr. Sadlier,
from Carlow; and Mr. Scholefield, from Birmingham.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS and Mr. B. OSBORNE presented
petitions praying for the repeal of the paper duty.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER and Colonel SIBTIIORP presented
petitions from places in Lincolnshire complaining of
agricultural distress.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from Seaham against
the Mercantile Marine Bill; also seven petitions against
the Bible monopoly.
A great number of petitions were presented against
the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill.

MINISTERIAL CRISIS.

STATEMENT OF LORD J. RUSSELL.

Shortly after fire o'clock, Hon. Members who had
notices of i;totion having postponed them, the orders of
the day were then called on.
On the motion for the second reading of the Ecclesi-
astical Titles Assumption Bill,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, amid the most profound
silence, rose and said—Sir, in moving the postpone-
ment of this order of the day, I will take the
opportunity of stating to the House what has occurred
since I asked them on Monday to adjourn to this
day. Before Ido so I think it necessary to
notice a contradiction to a statement which I
made on Monday last.—(Great cheering.) I then
stated that Lord Stanley having been sent for by the
Queen had stated to her Majesty that he was not then
prepared to form a Government, and that I
was then required to repair to Buckingham
Palace. I received a contradiction to that statement
in terms very peremptory, and in a manner
nut very courteous. I feel it due to my own honour to
state, in the first place, that nothing was further from my
intention than to misrepresent the conduct of Lord
Stanley. For that Noble Lord I have the greatest possible
respect. I have fought in Parliamentary matters side by
side with him —(Cheers,—l have fought face to face
against him.—(Cheers) In all times and in every
situation I have had occasion to admire his
spirit, his courage, and his honour.—(Great cheering.)
Therefore I should be sorry indeed if anything which
fell from me did not give a correct representation of
what that Noble Lord had stated.—(Cheers.) The
House will recollect that it was not then my duty to
go into detail, not to relate particular circumstances, and
not, above all, to narrate what had come to my know-
ledge of conversation, but yet to state clearly
what appeared to me to be the general result of
all that had occurred.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite ne-
cessary that I should state a reason why, after having
once taken leave of my Sovereign, I was again required
to repair to the palace ; that it was necessary is obvious
frOm the various statements circulated—statements,
some of them previously to the Hon. Gentleman's con-
tradiction, and some of them subsequent—(Cheers)
—which represented that Noble Lord as anxious to form
a Government, and myself as having endeavoured to
force myself into the presence of my Sovereign, when
that Noble Lord was engaged in that task.—(Cheers.)
And what, Sir, then occurred? His Royal Highness
Prince Albert wrote to me a letter on Saturday after-
noon, and by the permission of her Majesty, and also
of his Royal Highness, I will now read it to the
House.—(Hear, hear.)
" Lord Stanley has, after a, conversation with
her Majesty, declined to undertake the formation
of a Government at present, until it should be clear no
other Government could be formed. The Queen has
sent for Lord Aberdeen and Sir James Graham, and
wishes to see you immediately."
—(Hear.) I could, Sir, do no other, on receiving that
letter, than conclude that Lord Stanley had declined for
the present to form a Government—(Loud cheers)—
until it was found that no other Government could be
formed ; and I ask whether there was any misre-
presentation in stating, two days after receiving
this letter, that Lord Stanley was not prepared
at that time to form a Government—l used
the words "not then prepared?"—(Loud cheers.)
Sir, every one who has been admitted to the presence
of her Majesty is aware of the courtesy, of the memory
and of the precise truth of everything which falls
from her (Loud cheers) —but, Sir, though I
received from her Majesty an account of what
passed at her interview with Lord Stanley, I do
not rest solely on her Majesty's statement, but I rest on
the statement of the interview which Lord Stanley sent
to her Majesty in the course of the same evening, and of
which she has permitted me to read extracts
which bear on the point in question. And let me ob-
serve, that if I state these particulars to the House,
it is in consequence of the contradiction of the
Honourable Gentleman opposite.—(Great cheering.)
Now he asked whether those extracts did not
bear out his statement that Lord Stanley was not pre•
pared to form a Government ? Lord Stanley
thus reports to the Queen what he had stated in her pre-

seace :

" After stating to your Majesty the position of the
three main parties into winch the House of Commons is
divided, Lord Stanley observed, that the policy of the
present Administration bad met with the general ap-
proval and support of the most distinguished men of the
party which adhered to the late Sir R. Peel, and that
they had never yet met with a defeat from Lord Stan-
ley's political friends; that a very important member
of that party, Sir J. Graham, bad publicly deolared his
opinion of the necessity of closing their ranks to resist
the presumed policy of Lord Stanley's friends; and as

yi) ur Majesty had been pleased ,to inform him that no
mmunicution had been made to any one previous to
thi at with which your Majesty honoured him, he ven-
tut ed to suggest that, in the first instance, your Majesty
sh( uld ascertain whether it wore not possiole to
air( ngthen the present Government, or partially to
rect .nstruct it by a cumbirration with those who, not
now holding office. concurred in the opinions of
thosis who do, and profes►ed their opinion of the
necei city of union; that, failing such a combination,
a portion of that third party might be willing to
combine with Lord Stanley, whose difficulties in such a
case would be greatly diminished; that if it should ap-
pear that both of these arrangements were impracticable,
and if personal considerations stood in the way of the
formation of a Government of those whose opinions ap-
peared to prevail in the House of Commons, Lord Stan-
ley, not undertaking the extreme difficulties which he
would have to encounter, would, if honoured with your
Majesty's confidence, prefer any responsibility, and even
the chance of failure and loss of reputation, to that of
leaving your Majesty and the country without a Go-
vernment; and he added, that he believed an Adminis-
tration formed under such circumstances would be more
likely to meet with support, even from moderate oppo-
nents of their views, than one which should be hastily
formed without giving time to show the practicability of
a different arrangement."
I ask the House whether these passages do not bear out
my statement that Lord Stanley was not then prepared
to form a Government?—(Hear, hear.) At the close of
his letter Lord Stanley says:—
" He feels highly honoured by being allowed to submit
to your Majesty unreservedly his whole views, and
while he would be sorry that this paper should fall into
any other hands than those of your Majesty, he has that
entire confidence in Lord John Russell's honour, that
he is sure no ungenerous use will h• made of any portion
of it which your Majesty may see fit to communicate
to him."

I have the gratification of being able to state, that after
I made my statement in this House Lord Stanley, while
he informs me that he does not agree in that statement,
does not wish to qualify in the least degree the least
portion of his letter. It is satisfactory to me to be able
to make this statement to the House, and to say that
the extracts I have read to the House have been read
with the entire consent of Lord Stanley; indeed, Lord
Stanley wished them to be read in any statement
which I might make.—(Hear, hear.) I have now to
state, that having been desired by her Majesty to con-
struct an Administration, and at her Majesty's -re-
quest I obtained interviews with both Lord
Aberdeen and Sir James Graham, and I feel it
right to say, that no personal consideration
stood in the way of the formation of a Government com-
posed of those whose opinions appeared to prevail in the
House of Commons. If Lord Aberdeen and Sir James
Graham bad concurred in the formation of a Govern-
ment, I believe that no personal consideration would
have stood in their way.—(Hear.) With respect to
the several points of public importance on which we de-
liberated, liberated, although there was net any perfect
agreement, yet there did not seem to be such a
diversity of opinion as might not by further commu-
nication have been removed. There was one question—
the Papal aggression—on which it appeared impos-
sible that we could agree. I think it quite necessary
to proceed with that BilL— (Loud cheers.) Lord Aber-
deen told me that he thought respecting the late
aggression on this country no legislation at all was ne-
cessary. Upon that point there was so wide a difference
of opinion that it was evident that no Government could
possibly be formed by the coalition of such parties.—
(Hear, hear.) I again repaired to Buckingham Palace
,and informed her Majesty of the difficulty which had oc3
curred, and laid before her a full statement of the state
of affairs. The effect of that information to the Queen
was that her Majesty's desire led to a communication
with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Ripon
(Sir J. Graham), with the hope that I might be able,
with his assistance, to reconstruct the Government by
such an infusion of new strength as would give force and
efficiency to the Ministry.—(lieu, hear.) I was led to
this course by old associations, by the recollection of the
political aptitude which the Right Hot. Baronet so emi-
nently possesses, and further still, if I may be permitted
to state so much to the House, by the ties of old and
long-continued friendship. We were agreed on most of
the great topics of public affairs, and f did think that if
an interview was fairly conducted we might come to
some general accord upon subjects on which a difference
of feeling prevailed.—(Hear, hear.) The interview was
abortive, and I was therefore again obliged to re-
sign the commission for the formation of a Government
with which her Majesty had been ',leased to honour
me.—(Hear, hear.) Yesterday evening I was informed
that her Majesty had received Irons Lord Stanley
the resignation of his commission, which I have read
to the House. Placed under that difficulty, her Ma-
jesty has, most wisely, as I think, sent for an old
friend of the Crown, who is not snore eminent for
his distinguished services abroad and for the
glory of his military achievements—(Loud and
long continued cheering) that he is for
his wisdom in civil affairs, and his respect for the
constitution of the country (the Duke of Welling-
ton).—(Repeated cheers from all sides of the House.)
I trust that I have said enough to assure the House that
the representation of the Right Hononourable Gen-
tleman the Member fur Bucks (Mr. Disraeli), that
Lord Stanley was prepared to form a Government
was incorrect,—(Hear and cheers; and cries of'- Oh.")
With this statement I conclude the narrative of what
has occurred within the last few days—(Cheers)—but
I cannot omit this opportunity of refuting the assertion
that I was ready to take the helm in a time
of prosperity, and to resign the Ministry as
soon as the Government was placed in a state
of difficulty. To that assertion I respond that
I should not have deemed the adverse division come to
the other night any sufficient reason for a resignation of
the Government if I had thought that it could be carried
on successfully.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) If I did not
shrink from the difficulties of the country when
3,000,000 of people were in a state of distress, it was not
likely that I should shrink from them now; but I saw
it was useless to proceed when office could only be re-
tained at the risk of power which would be
useful to the country, and the loss of that character
which was honourable to its pOssessor.—(Hear, hear.)
When the directors of the Bank of England came to my
Right Honourable Friend to ask us to suspend the law,
and run the risk of an indemnity from Parliament, I
might have shrunk from the difficulties of the time;
when, at a later period, the whole of Europe was
shaken with revolutions from one end to the other, and
when there was every prospect of the treaties which
bound Europe together, and preserved the peace of
the world, being dissolved, we did not shrink
from our parts, nor did we do so even
when in Ireland large bodies of people were preparing
to organize a ,rebellion.—(oh, oh!) We might then
have shrunk from the difficulties of the period;
but to suppose that we should do so
now, when all those troubles have passed
away, when commerce is flourishing, when the people are
prosperous, and when the only diflculty at the Exchequer
is, that it is rather more flourishing than is convenient to
the Chancellor—(Ailaugh)—is quite ridiculous.—(Hear.)
But, Sir, I wish to state some of the opinions which I
hold now with regard to the three questions which have
occupied the public mind, and engaged Parliamentary
attention a good deal of late.—(Hear, hear.) One of
the most important of those questions is free trade
and the free import of corn.—(Hear and cheers.)
Now, Sir, I take no credit whatever for the establish-
ment of thepresent law upon that subject, for the system
which the Government of Lord Melbourne proposed was
a system of a different kind. It was a system which was
based upon a moderate duty on corn, and a differential duty
on sugar and other articles. That plan was rejected by
the House of Commons, and in 1845 the circumstances
of the country having in the meantime undergone a
great change and assumed a different aspect
Sir Robert Peel pronounced that at no dis-
tant period the corn-laws must be repealed,
and at the same time—in the month of Novem-
ber—without any, communication with my party,
I published my opinions that the time was come when
the corn-laws could no longer be maintained. The only
safe course then was toeapr,rohceeaerd.) toNothwe,irsira,bloltihtiionnk,
and Sir Robert Peel gave the honour of the
change which afterwards followed to the Hon. Member
for the West Riding._(u
it is due in a great part to Sir Robert Peel and to the
Hon. Member for the West Riding, but I can't altogether
say that I claim no credit, but the smallest amount
is due for the part I took in effecting the change.—
(Hear, hear.) That change was effected in 1846, and I
believe its effects have been most beneficial to this
country.—(Cheers.) I believe that the great mass of
the people of this country are enjoying benefits
from that change which they could not otherwise have
obtained.—(Hear, hear.) When the reins of power fell
into our hands it was our endeavour to proceed in that
policy ; and on two very important questions,
namely, in the case of foreign sugar and the
navigation-laws, we succeeded in carrying measures in
conformity with our present commercial policy.—
(Hear, hear.) I rejoice that we were able to carry
these two changes into effect with the willing
concurrence of the two Houses of Parliament, for
it appears to me that while we are endeavouring to
carry such changes into effect, we should, as far as
possible, do so without disturbing the institutions of
the country.—(Cheers.) I will now proceed to the next
subject, and that is the Bill relating to the
assumption of power in this country by a foreign eccle-
siastical power.—(Hear, hear.) I still concur in the

opinions which I entertained on the introduction of that
Bill. It is my opinion that the assumption of these
titles was as assumption of power on the
part of a foreign prince which it was impos-
siblo us to pass. by uunotimi ; but, Sir, I
wiil Pay thi3, that I thought and still think
that the main object to be attained by that
Bill was the indication of our national iadependence
and the assertion of the supremacy of the Crown and
kingdom of England as against any foreign power what-
ever.--(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, wish respect to the
Bill we had introduci d, looking to the past proceedings
in the Irish courts of law, there are some of -its clauses
which ought not to be pressed to the fullest extent.
It was not our intention so to interfere with anything
which belongs to the regular order of Roman'Catholic
worship. So far we were anxious to maintain the re-
li,gious liberty which exists in this country. Therefore, if
that Bill were proceeded with, I should he ready to matte
all such alterations as should prevent any of the inter-
ference which seems to be dreaded. I own that when I

see a man of such moderation as Archbishop Murray ob-
jecting to the provisions of that Bill, I will say I am quite
ready, to examine and go into the provisions of the
Bill, and see whether the objections which have been
stated really do exist.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
My persuasion was, and I was induced to believe
so by information which I received from a very
high authority, that on these two points which I have
stated this Bill was not calculated to make any inter-
ference. Therefore I am quite ready to carry into
effect the original intentions of the Bill, not
to depart from them, and not to go beyond them,
There is another question of very great importance;upon
which, on the occasion of a late debate, on the 20th
instant, I made a statement to the House on the
subject of extending the franchise. It is fit
that I should state to the House that that
subject has been under the consideration of the Cabinet
during the late recess, but myself and my colleagaes
came to the unanimous determination that it
would not be right to introduce a measure
on that subject in the present session. As, howevers
a general election must take place in 1853, we deter-
mined that 1852 would be the latest time that such a
measure could be introduced. With respect to the
question itself, I have to say that having
for ten years before the Reform Bill was introduced
devoted my attention to the subject, and having made
many motions between the years 1821 and 1831, having
had a great share in framing the Reform Bill, I
am perfectly satisfied with the general working
of that Bill. I do not see that it has
produced any of the consequences of overturning the
Constitution which were prophecied of it. But in re-
spect, however, of any future measure which may be
introduced upon the subject, I think you must proceed
with the greatest caution. I think the general disposition
of the Reform Parliament has produced a fair represen-
tation of the intelligence, the wishes, and the industry
of the people. I should dread any change which might
be introduced in the representation which deprived
the House of Cpmmons of that conservative element
which ought to belong to it. I cannot conceive that a
House of Commons merely representing numbers would
act in harmony with a monarchy, an hereditary
House of Peers, and an Established Church. I
think h ought to be the object of any
one who approaches this subject not to create a
House of Commons, which should be a separate
power, but it should be his object to do as we
did in 1831, to endeavour to give to the people
a greater interest in their institutions, and at the
same time to improve the general representation.
These are the views that I venture to bring
before the House upon these three topics. It
is at the present time a matter of doubt into
whose hands the Government of the country
may be committed, but I feel that on great subjects,
like those I have referred of Parliamentary interference,
it is not for Ministers alone to look to the solution of such
great questions.—(Hear, hear.) They interest us and our
own posterity.—(Hear, hear.) Sir I have consi-
dered, in the course of my Parliamentary conduct,
whether on the day I was proposing reform
to a small minority, and amidst the apathy
of the country, or whether I was proposing
a Bill that was receiving the enthusiasm of the
nation—l felt that my great comfort was that I was
acting with those on whom I had the greatest
confidence, and on whose judgment I could rely-
- (Hear, hear)—and on whose integrity I could place
the greatest faith.—(Hear, hear.) Perhaps the House
will allow me to quote a few sentences from a great
statesman, who used frequently to be quoted in this
House, and who was often referred to as a guide to our
deliberations. He is certainly much less referred to
now, but his sentiments nevertheless are pregnant withi
much wisdom. I allude to Edmund Burke.---(Hear )
Burke says—
" The only method which has ever been found effec-
tual to preserve any man against the corruption of na-
ture and example is a habit of life and communication of
counsels with the most virtuous and public-spirited men
of the age you live in. Such a society cannot be kept
without advantage, or deserted without shame. For this
rule of conduct I may be called in reproach a party
man; but lam little affected with such aspersions. In
the way which they call party, I worship the constitu-
tion of your fathers; and I shall never blush for my po-
litical company. All reverence to honour, all idea of
what it is, will be lost out of the world, before it can be
imputed as a fault to any man that he has been closely
connected with those incomparable persons, living and
dead, with whom for eleven years I have constantly
thought and acted."
Adopting these sentiments, I have to say that I
have acted for mote than eleven years with
such men as Romilly, Mackintosh, and Horner, with
Lord Grey and Lord Althorp, and with such men it
has been my pride to act. I will not speak of the living,
but I will say this, that as long as I am a public man
I will act with those men and consort with such men as
adopt my public views.—(Hear, hear.) Some men may
think that our standard of public virtue is
higher than in the times of Burke, others
may think it lower, but as long as I take part in public
affairs I shall ever follow the example of such public
men as I think may best guide my public life.—(The
Noble Lord sat down amid much cheering.)

Mr. DISRAELI wished to correct some of the mis-
takes into which the Noble Lord appeared to him
to have fallen. It was the opinion of Lord Stanley,
and certainly of all parties, that no reference
would have been made on Monday to what
had occurred, and that the Noble Lord opposite
would not have considered it necessary under the
circumstances to have made the allusions he did.—
(Hear.) He, however, had been authorised by Lord
Stanley to state that if it was said he was
not prepared to form an Administration, that
such really was not the case. He had stated the
effect of that to the Noble Lord; he perhaps might
have made that statement to the Noble Lord in phrase-
ology less appropriate than might have been adopted—
(Hear, hear)—but having reason to believe that the
Noble Lord was then i❑ possession of Lord Stanley's
letter he thought it better not to let that opportunity
clip to state what really was the fact.—(Cries of
"Hear, hear.") He never for one moment meant
to state anything that was to be considered peremptory.
After making this statement it would be unnecessary
for him to make any further remark upon the course
adopted by Lord Stanley, as he believed that Noble
Lord was now in another place making his statement
of what had really occurred; and he believed that
after that statement Lord Stanley would stand
far higher in the estimation of the country than he had
done before. The Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst
loud cries for Sir J. Graham.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM, who evidently had not
anticipated being so specially called upon, said that he
would not have intruded upon the House bad he
not been so peremptorily called upon.—(Hear.) Some
explanation would doubtless be expected from him, and
he would endeavour to make it as succinctly as he could.
Her Majesty had been most graciously pleased, on
Saturday to send for his Noble Friend Lord Aberdeen
and himself, and at an audience with which
they were honoured her Majesty informed them that
Lord Stanley had stated to her Majesty that he
was not prepared to form a Government, and that
she had empowered Lord John Russell to re-
construct) a Government. (Hear, hear.) Her
Majesty expressed her greatest anxie y to his Noble
Friend and himself that they would do all in
their power to assist him in that undertaking.
With that requisition Lord Aberdeen could not possibly
comply. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) As one
who desired to serve her Majesty, and as a faithful
servant of a Sovereign whose continual thought
and greatest wish) was for the happiness of her people—
(Cheers)—he would truly say that he was
anxious once more to join the Noble Lord
in the formation of a Government.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord in the course of his statement
had said that he and himself (Sir James Graham)
had long held public office together, and that he had
always regretted the dissolution of that connexion by
which they had been bound together.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord had overvalued that connexion in his

---
(Sir J. Graham's) estimation. Sometimes he had been
associated with, and other times he had been opposed to
the Noble Lord in the conduct of the national affairs.
Sometimes he had been the Noble Lord's willing fol-
lower in that House, and at others his strenuous oppo-
nent; but for many years he had lived in the closest
intimacy with the Noble Lord, and in the enjoyment, 1.•
might say, of the ties of affection.—(Hear, hear.) He
must say that, for his own part, he was ready to express
the same feeling, and ho trusted he might bo allow id, in
speaking of the Noble Lord, once more to resume the
expression which he had so often used in that
House, and term him his Noble Friend.—(Loud and re-
peated cheers from both sides of the House.) With re-
spect to what might happen to fall from him on that
occasion he did not wish to say anything that might
bring on a hostile discussion. Under the present
circumstances such a proceeding would, in his opinion,
be both unseemly and mischievous. There were, how-
ever, three points to which he desired to direct the
attention of the House, for when the history of
the last thirty years came to be written, it would be
found that that epoch was marked by three great ques-
tions. The first of these was the repeal of the Test and
Corporation Acts, and the emancipation of the Roman
Catholics; the second was the pasing tbe Reform
Act, by which a great and extensive alteration
was made in the franchise ; and the third
Was the establishment of the larger and more