The Sun.
London, England, 1834-03-05 00:00:00

FOREIGN ENLISTMENTS.

Mr. MURRAY should !rove for leave to bring in a bill
to repeal the Act 59 Geo. 111., relative to foreign enlist-
ments, except so fir as it repeals former statutes.
Alr. SINCLAIR merely wished to guard himself against
being supposed to concur with his hon, friend in con-
deconinv. the Foreign Enlistment Act. He (Mr. S.) had,
in 1819, supported that measure in all ite stages; he had
since seen no reason to alter his opinion.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
IMPRESSMENT OF SEAMEN.

Mr. BUCKINGEIAM had given notice of a motion
which be should now proceed to submit to the house—
namely, for a select committee to take into consideration
the practicability of devising some plan, by which It re-
gular and voluntary supply of seamen might be procured
for his Majesty's navy, without recourse to the practice of
forcible impressment. He had had abundant means, in
the course of his life, of ascertaining what was the general
opinion with respect to the practice of impressment in
sea-ports, the inhabitants of which were well acquainted
with the evils which attended that practice, and were com-
petent to form the best judgment as to the most desirable
mode by which those evils might be remedied; and he could
assure the house, that it was the uniform opinion of such
persons, that the mode of raising men for his Majesty's navy
by impressment, was not only most cruel and oppressive,
but that it was the most inefficient mode for the purpose
that could possibly be devised. He hoped the house
would do him the favour to listen to him, while he stated
as shortly as possible, some of the grounds on which that
opinion was formed. Being extremely anxious that others
should be afforded an opportunity of expressing their
sentiments on the subject, hon. members who were
equally competent to speak upon it as laituself—offieers
eootnfitlanee nhaiv, and officers
ayremarhawithiothe
nf
the Marines.—be
narrmvest seoihnopualsda
into which they were capable of being come
pressed. It would be a great waste of time in this house
jibe were to enlarge on the cruelty and oppression of the
nee•tdheondeaglirawdha;
it neces Everysa onely ki
degrada-
tion practice
and o f
indignity impressment.
which
were so unfortunate as to be the subjects of its exercise.
In the last session of Parliament the noble lord (Althorp)
had expressed his surprise at his (Mr. Buckingham's)
having compared impressment to slavery. On mature de•
liberation he was thoroughly confirmed in the sentiments
which he expressed on the occasion alluded to. What
were the characteristics of slavery? A slave was torn
from his native country, his family, and his friends, sub-
jected to a servitude which he detested, coerced by the
lash, and, if he attempted to escape, visited with the pu-
nishment of death. If such were the characteristics of the
slave, so were they of the impressed sailor. The sailer,
like the negro, was dragged from his home; the sailor, like
the negro, was thrown into a condition of abject ser•
vitude; the sailor, like the negro, was coerced by the
lash; the sailor, like the negro, was subjected to the
caprice of his superiors ; the sailor, like the negro, was
liable to be shot if he deserted from the ship to which he
bad been compulsorily attached. If these were facts—and
it was imposible to deny them—what difference wae
there between the sailor and the slave? Yes; one dif-
ference there might be—that to the mind of the mariner
whe called himself, or who had been taught to call himslf
a free•born Englishman, the stigma would be much more

painful than to that of the negro, accustomed to slavery
and suffering, and to whom no change could materially
increase his sense of degradation. If such was the result
of comparison between the two individuals at a former
period, how much more striking must it be at the present
moment? Before the abolition of slavery in the West
Indies, it had' been maintained that sugar could not be
cultivated except by compulsory labour. The resolution,
however, to which Parliament had come, on the sug-
gestion of his Majesty's Government, proved their opinion,
that negroes not in slavery might nevertheless be induced,
by just payment, to undertake the labour which had been
hitherto performed by slaves. Was that coercion which
had been destroyed in the West Indies to be continued in
the navy? He hoped net. He hoped that in twelve
mouths from the present day people would wonder why
the barbarous practice of impressment had been so long
continued. It had been asserted that seamen bad not com-
plained of the practice; and that they did not entertain
any aversion to it had been inferred from the ab-
sence of those memorial, and petitions in which other
classes of his Majesty's subjects were accustomed to state
their grievances. But let the house consider the diffe-
rence between seamen and other classes of men. In large
counties thousands of the yeomen might be assembled by
the sheriff, in order to express their opinions upon any
great popular question. But with the exception of men of
war, seamen were shut up in very small bodies. If, in a
man of war, they were to carry to the first lieutenant
their wish to assemble for the purpose of framing some
resolution expressive of their opinion upon such a topic as
impressment, it was easy to guess what kind of answer
they would receive from him. Merchant vessels seldom
contained more than 30 or 40 men. When sailors came
ashore the enjoyments which naturally followed the hard-
ships of a long voyage, occupied their whole time, and
rendered them utterly forgetful of other considerations.
So, therefore, the absence of all petitions or memorials
upon the subject from else sailors, did not justify any one
in imputing to them that they disregarded its evils and
injustice. In the year 1750, however, a memorial
from the seamen was presented to the crown, through
the medium of the Duke of Cumberland, which ex-
pressed not merely their abhorrence of the prac-
tice of impressment, but their conviction that that
practice defeated the end which it had in view. The
seamen of Shields, also, being the crews of a large num-
ber of coasting vessels, bad come to resolutions on the
subject quite as unequivocal. There could be no doubt,
indeed, that the feeling of abhorrence entertained by ma-
riners towards the practice of impressment, was as strong
as it was possible to conceive. Great stress had, never-
theless, been laid on two points—the legality, and the
utility of the practice. To those who held that the prac-
tice was legal he would, in the first place, say that that
was no reason why the law should not be changed. The
law was continually undergoing alterations on other sub-
jects by the introduction into that house of new bills,
and why not on this subject? But be further maintained
that even the legality of the practice might be questioned.
Lord Camliden, no mean authority on such matters, had
challenged the whole profession of the hew to prove the
legality of impressment. Lord Mansfield had declared
that it was only a usage which in clear cases of state
necessity might he resorted to, but that it was not sanc-
tioned by law. In addition to these authorities there
unfortunately existed cases of individuals who had resisted
being impressed, and who had shot some of the press-
gang, and yet who, on having been tried for murder,
were acquitted on the ground that any man bad a right to
defend himself from impressment. A case had happened at
Hull, of which be believed an hon. member of that house
bad been an eye witness. A whaler just returned from
the South-Seas, being about to enter the Humber,
his Majesty's ship the Rover chased, boarded, and took
possession of her. The crew of the whaler, however,
full of ardour and expectation of returning to their native
land, and raging at the disappointment to which they saw
they were about to be subjected, after having confined
their captain in his cabin, in order that he might not
interfere with, or be implicated in their proceedings,
armed themselves with spears, lances, harpoons, and other
weapons, and killed two of the man-of war's men before
they were overpowered. For this offence several of them
were tried at the York Assizes ; and although the judge
endeavoured to convince the jury that his Majesty's go-
vernment could he upheld only by the practice of impress-
ment, and although he endeavoured strongly to stimulate
their loyalty on the occasion, a verdict of acquittal was
returned, and there were several days of public rejoicing
at York in consequence. Another well knovin case was
that of a press gang who boarded a vessel in Dover-roads,
not being accompanied by the person who had the press
warrant. In the scuffle, one of the gang, named O'Cal-
laghan, was shut by the crew of the merchantman,
several of whom were tried for murder ; but the jury found
them guilty only of manslaughter, notwithstanding the
judge, Judge Foster, had strongly charged them against
the prisoners, observing that the state had a right to obtain
the services of its subjects by any means, in eves of in-
surrection or ievesion. Who denied it ? In cases of
inv 'mien or insurrection men of every class would be liable,
as be was sure they would be anxious, to share in the
dgence cf the country. Bat would any one say
that there was no distinction between a condition of
things such as those, and the introduction of the practice of
impressment in a time of profound peace? After adverting
to the opinions which Benjamin Franklin had published
on the subject, the hon. gentleman proceeded to state, that
when the great Lord Chatham brought in a bill to register
the navy, be expressed himself in the strongest terms
against the practice of impressment, declaring that although
in the event of sudden invasion or of insurrection it was
justifiable, yet that in all other cases, until every other
measure for manning our ships had been tried in vain, it
was contrary to the law of England. It was declare] by
Alagna Charta, that no man could be punished with out-
lawry, except after a trial by jury. Lord Coke had de-
clared that the King could not send any man even to Ire-
land, wi.hout the sentence of a court of law. If not to
Ireland, so not to any other place. But it was contended
that the practice of impressment was one of the usages of
the King's prerogative from time immemorial. It seemed,
however, that that prerogative had been surrendered ; for
in the reign of Charles the Second, two bills of a tempo.
rary nature had been brought in and pissed, to remove
any doubts which existed on the subject. Those acts
having exp:red, and no subsequent act of a similar nature
having passed, it might be said that the pre-existing doubts
revived. There was another view of the subject that de-
served attention. Cases had occurred in which press-gangs
had killed seamen—in which the officers of press-gangs had
shut seamen—and yet although the men were killed, juries
would not find persons who had killed them guilty of murder.
Thus it appeared, that although there was killing on both
sides, yet there was no murder. The party assailing
killed some of those whom they attacked, yet there was
no murder—the party resisting killed some of their as-
sailants, and Set there was no murder. Why, at that
mt., a thousand men might be slaughtered on both sides,
and no single person found guilty of murder. If there
quitewere no
sufficientreason
for b u but e
ft
ehrarti,.
gi t
whether a man might be killed without the commission of
d, i
at
murder
—and
cnodmmifittse:
ostutuil e netyoh tsmh eiogphci otn
iosnns
ue ri be
e-e
, in
Having shown that the legality of impressment was, to
when,r dte
where,
hrwe
say the hest of it, doubtful, he would proceed to show the
inefficiency and inutility of the practice. Even so long
ago as the time of Sir Robert Walpole, that statesman
in giving his opinion of impressment, had dwelt not so
washe did not
suddenly
toww entertainoouulldd
break tbbhoeeeu leaststse,ennottr
otanon doubt, but
much ore the cruelty
ewlejrna.tatondfi
jaaoannpdjopeuvrxebpisytseemicdotioneydu
Plymouth to
atvota theswbi
eopansrfia
the
idci
nec,osauusoretif,
on the fact that it was not productive of the advantage
which,l
ewpaoSnmruuhddrepiepccroghoases ape :net
oap:haif
ships
captains
a:81 vane
and
however,
Portsmouth
s impressment—.they
other
insur-
rection, the Lords of
.....tffihecthereAsydmiralty would, of course,
yseuhcoaere aotf
in-
tenddusk,their t d
uriequipmentduring
daylight,; boats
iw,eocuaul would bein manned by
latter
ryP
case,
uasceh,
vtheesselssaaisiorhsawd
would have
and wouldthe beeepseenvtiuonnityshoroef forthe
escap-
ing. Now supposing that there were' twenty thousand
s
rboyt h
scouringntthe
the streets,9,ooo, or
alarmed eai
any naval officer would be aware that the pressgang,
eis;b
1s
would not experience any difficulty in catching a thou-
sand o f
anhd mc h
nb t gv
tle
hr
t
taverns
fate of their comrades, would in the morning make their
escape. They would put off their tarry jackets and black
silk handkerchiefs, disguise themselves as carters or
ploughmen, and get away into the country as fast as pos-
sible. Even those who did not succeed in achieving that
object, would, nevertheless, in most instances, be able to
conceal themselves; for it was honourable to the huma
nity of the people, male or female, that when a man
presented himself at a door with a press.gang at his heels,
that door was never shut against hitn.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) Now, was it possible to conceive any practice so
calculated to excite universal abhorrence towards those
who were engsged in it, and universal sympathy towards
those who were its victims? It was well known by all
who resided in seaports, that the great mass of the inha-
bitants made common cause with the seamen on such
occasions. After the first haul, therefore, no more sea-
men could be obtained in a similar manner. Not being
able to obtain seamen, the gang. began to impress lands-

oftri:ani
orsoob,,nir
(wc°tow
mein a
fit,
. tithi_re
co i
,er
o,:n '
bale 11;s
tt
men. It might be said that a landstnefAnommuerirgiehenateeoiresup-t
remedy against this in a court of law. But bow i7ed,
possible for a carpenter or a blacksmith suddenly
se the
confined on board the tender, and then sent off too._
East or West Indies, to bring the transaction fro;e4
court of law ? To such a man, the remedy /., hp
by the court of law was a mere nullity. tia,!_lnegogs
pressed as many Englishmen as they could. ''''
next began to impress foreigners.
tcrayusaesndofthtleaeudnisipteudteswtahtiecsh, hwaadsotchcautrriveedib:entpweresee°,ll
itreaetrh_tih;e:mojerugslitotei,
cans der pretence that they were English count tem
they
r. th.ere
soon,bwveehroe
wo
nelrbetowacrajdsmowpueerililschkdinptosowfing fight
manyht abtaoizaleui
against
si nt gt the last o 00: i twig
because the British officers either did not believe,
B.l'l"mnt,
not believe, that they redly were not Americanto
oler '
the other hand, m iny of our best sailors went .
tliel
countries—to France, to Russia, to America--and oselityA
to discipline the navies of those powers. It W
re,/
known that in the last war Commodore Decatur deals
p 0 ,
that he had not the captain of a gun who Wig jcketi
Englishman. The bargemen of his ships--tbe P .0
creased
men
eanps
erodafcbttyiheeeßcrew—were
ei
:shies
hiol
iassgemde n e r a 1 ty E o g i i s h auc',, IL.
thus in time of war was the strengfithdoe
was direc
_orAnt... i 1
the streets of our seaports had been scoured first f the?e 1,
men, then for landsmen, and afterwards for foreigners! 1.
prisons were resorted to, and criminals were series f,
board our men of war to add to the difficulty of Icepio. f
their crews in a proper state of 'discipline and s
the salt ct
Lion. Well did those who were acquainted with t"s tsiAl
ject know the difficulty which in many cases the ettl? f,
ei afrnf frequently
placedur ne a.
under
i ofnyd
e increased
warhi had to tt
by
ya
ntdh .e preservewTr disciplineehtecrheed w
ma nad I
la, nudla order IP
g mntheent moonmtehnist
subject.
jebeatt.tle
Itormiinghtthbaet
so:, storm ; "lore
they know how his difficulties and his responsibilityee ,
system of impressment were not beneficial in anY_,ooll :
respect, it must at least be economical ; but what 7,,,,,
the house say, when they were told that Admiral Pil`2,o.
a roan whose character was well known tothe valrm,
fession, had declared that 15,000 impresse senaameo
serted in the abort period of twenty-five months! to
Nelson also (a name which ought never to be mentioar;
conjunction with naval subjects except with the gresteiti,
Terence), in a memorial which be presented to Lord t;
Vincent, stated the number of deserters in a given tie
have been 42,000, and estimated the loss to the coety,
at the rate of twenty pounds per man, amounting °los
whole to 840,0001. Lord Nelson could have no P3r
for exaggeration ; but even if be had somewhat e. 17,0
rated, the evil was still enormous. Now if half that
—if a quarter of that sum—had been devoted to theni,
payment of the men, and to affording thperaPwieedwdyissidout_isithilloiilft:ll:toritilbrlebsiber '
pense for their services, who could doubt thet_A 00
42,000 sailors would rather have remained on 107;10(
Majesty's ships than have deserted for the purpose '3i
to merchantmen? To the cruelty--to the illegal i
.i. 0*
ttpoheanttsbeiet. iwneatffisoucrditetneNcrlyeyic toifinni,pmoinps,rhiesbisisemmteoenpit:roe was
vllei,
tst Otathbteeediureinndedawdbcoodstioes
deserted front leaving England, and that not A tor
sailed from the channel that did not carry awe' a_.„(led
sand of them. He (Mr. Buckingham) hitnselfcomM;o ~.j
a merchant ship during the war, and he well ree.
..." es.
the impossibility of openly obtaining
cinepdtiannggetrhoosfeimwphroeswsmereeneti.theTr
htoenelljdatEogr:to:coseivh
into*
was obliged to ship French, Spanisb, thirty ~
Swedes, Danes, tcc.; so that among thirty o loor_aes.
there were natives of eight or ten differenot coo
51. S
mencmToliorneneeteho,ptn iay were paid
,wpaahiieiddn
eanitiot
etErb e rate of 41 lu . sa. v e n titre t°
his WIC!. r licios'e
s iimi coneelftl
toi
the ve
had any scruple, however, and, usncdreurpie,
stances, he never should have any
or 50 English seamen in his hold, who, wbtf.,Prther drti
bad reached the open sea, and they were inn o 'ld wor ,
tthoetihrepiarssnaagtieveoucotutnotArym. erßiCualotrweolsdea here,
ger, came upon deck, brea'hed the
wysfre::rand
tofled
neveri]d
_eel _
be a ,101 00
a letter from a friend at Liverpool, wboinformetl_e4o.o.
when in 1832 a fleet was under equipmentforttlea:tur W
of going to the Scheldt, the Admiralty sent 50011
Liverpool to obtain men. His correspondent 001
Admiralty to provide a thousand able-bodied id pail
Alt they
n:
:wyi
no,
go
al
him
i consent
dm ob fortainheitdsoogoffinevirey, thebu
but adding,
twentymena d i
otr:ltiEgest:eiloreiotrl
advance, as was the usage on board merchaeforfis
o bta receivedignha msauaffinveycri
eyhnutiondllurreintdebsoeurioefranaengrnmsiwireeosnnehigrdwsfiirtti
it. The result, however, was, that the cil!W:iev-I,
forty five men on board, lay for a considerable titna;o,Q 1
thou enter, Pottle ;
they could have obtained the advance whiAlt thatiii:,
usage to give in the merchants' service. Ila" 0,01,a1-
V-
Vance been accorded, the expense of sending round
e
cutter with the forty men would have been gavel.
001 •
them hold out inducements similar W theze,A, tnee„os
the merchants, and government would obvi'id sbefLa
readily as the merchants obtained than. JD sod they,.
,
all remember when the agents of Don Peui9oodetoe" ,
Miguel came into the Thames and the Merge'',
tii,hlo.,o
many men as they liked ? Sailors have nefertej rop,
danger or fighting; on the contrary, they Pre Thetf,d
weather and hard knocks to calm and quiet•dior, nar
to meet either the tempest or the enerni.."'", oar P,,,,e
Service in the navy would become most PO_ ~i;t1174
seamen were allowed a little time in rotation told 0 ge, ro
a—etiffhwaaafyi nialliheydnilnie: theill
iscierinhiueeegyofoad:rfrwfirodt
s.hwmeeiuw:enri
nfedei rapdetpaaeheomGrmnawepoerrsogreebresnorgraml l geeveteaaieonssittsnfocti ehotryrdeiien: am: consequenceftwypler weVorreseemi a srtssteetisrmldtmrawhaeei ndyfaedst a'ueientijnic Idoiwnac:rnenrettotosttshrtdohtdhebreert:rePebilrPrrste c 'l7c'e
g etpoelo: ,r: it;
dr::::::::: °::°:;T:f ' : ° tb
f:.
e.l, . 1 . .
ever,
allotordgehthaedrdgeicvliantged
up
he entertained eav-hicl, fp
tion whatever to inquire into the means b,Yh A tfar
danger, I nt
hpge hact
safety. He (Mr. Buckingham) we' not
Whichaol
enough to contend that cases might not ari4el
awie; 01
law must be set aside for the service of the P hop Dos ,
that did not justify the habitual violaintir:::
Habeas Corpus Act had occasionally been "lei, 0E57,0
tering seamen from that liability which, in °Tat all cr
public danger, they must share in common wi.th lid
it had only been suspended. He would not t.bines of Co
entorce impressmen-,fle agreed tat , .
classes of his Majesty a subjects.
be eligible to o,tat
noble lord in thinking that it might co ni
that, in a case of emergency, an o . coo. 0 la
was an additional argument which be wished
Oa si
under
country
tetmertiiynicteigiaitn3toeldvit,a,fi:iie:abibiteato,
deipeajvbse
jott:iii!.
the house. Since the practice of impressh °la (sd '
discontinued,
been making great progress in improvement's dor"
pleasant to look back and contemplate tstbe 500 e
knowledge of many classes of the people. his,„, tbeiLati,
suppose that sailors had stood still, and that
were 87:0
were, in point of inf xmation, where they -i-i, ii rn"fr
years ago ?—( Hear, hear.) They were 111 - ofie Ada
of profound peace, when such a change as the he #
posed could more safely and more advantersgee Gate"
and sure was he, that if it were not 0304,, 14 eti"-ott
should break out the odious system would rnie fer.ioT
order
but would be resisted even to the death. ii ;10' 00
in
inCeOnant itti:
would do so. He said it advisedly.--he woul'at, of oil
pressrnent to the death. Liberty was
dase wards,ser tu co
shouldn. r i g iastepoce.eberiel
birth-right—it was a part of his veil if, „d Otto, ego(
liberty was this, when a man could be tor ,s, stet 1 fal ; ,
endured. ht to it as the King him" ' oloc- ii•
1 he would maintain and defend. But ti.hacteda toile
will from his home, his family, and frier° ~. sho_,O° 1.,
he was satisfied it would be resisted 11l Id oeetweitit
e had $.140,
shore, and he could assure the house h
at the, se i
fnuol I
from the growing opinion on the subject
.00 %/O!, `.
that the landsmen would make control ca,'__ otter," c it:
.....
s(iclojulheleedrsi. attempt
rn)prevsos
iwnt:ntthreiusjeo isnviuthei
deamf.ro:ll:su?;:eroili :1::
( H e a r ,
uwlhear,waareoitiey.
working
iextnaiiigror.uo)sui
in the
oat
hru et
abolish,bdder seaer%kvr?ei,oollo..e!uri:'d4teei
ideortiollis:ro,ololl4ie; .:, ''‘
house to ageee to his motion, reconnniel4 boch!efo
~ '
osnogitfor i certainlyreewiteeyattil:ty.a consideration
apprehension
sehlsooirieepicideystyevcr%a,
voaysetfe,
irroebhntvi
entitled
a ofb
Alevtii
the
broughtitrege:sotgtinytusi,aliesa
tsisonuerila;iif
floe.
Ger:
antwocureo::::::,:sebeyeeaf:
igrirdoloost
:yet.:10°140::::
fil
::. :
picious season. 'They ha I no war...than,' soiou'ol:
train it would greatly disappoint thew-
.....,(Che,el!,7ooldrit n.'
and sincer%idecatios.sipi ;, )
motion lie thought the government tvuu„,atioro, $(0501
that they would consult their own reP" try-. 0 old '
ccluColoed 10
of ,
It perhaps would be asked what plan le P 4 pot tds I .
anetn'oer of that house, he knew well,: olso 1°,6)19
such a question at certain tinaes ; het to be eV. Ye
if a proper plan was submitted, ic was sore would) ffit
and if a plan was not submitted, the oe,tcrir would)
mercantile navy, it was well known, '
.'v e to bga',llool '
our seamen, and
i
Pen was, that sailors should be well Pr° 0 14' '
nary rendered as attractive ae Pontible/ l°
~
,
1+ '

interest and duty go hand in hand together.e.e(Cheers.)
IheY never found any difficulty in procuring seamen for
' the merchant service, and why should that differ from
the King's? Let them have a registry—let them
fetatabntil limited time of service-make their men corn-
-117 ' and allow a bount and the old system would
again be required in thisy
country.—(Cheers.) He
• w that if seamen were properly provided, they had a
it,
g to n se of duty; none were more willing to perform
and to Perform it•well; each man took his turn with
alacrity if there was only fair play and strict impartiality.
'OeaOl a r ear, hear.) soe
persons, he believed, asserted
I:}allit
failed egistry had been already tried in this country, and
e ; but this was no valid argument against a trial
or. The registry alluded to might have been a bad one,
o l' ruieht have been conducted by bad men, or in bad
Imea• In the reign of William the Third, an Act was
e• 11 erzisteuce authorising a registry : but be found, from
la
nu netand other authorities, that the pay of the navy was
zthears, to the amount of a million and a half of money
at the supply of food was meagre in the extreme—
deedat the fund itself was bad—that all the regulations, in-
:3k_ of the service were so bad that, though the registry
;n a premium of 403 they could not find a sailor to
tegaheil. name. Nay, at”this period a number of seamen
. lief mall}, hanged for mutiny—the act of mutiny con-
teeing in having asked for the wages due to them. Could
• eLtme wonder that in such times the attempt at a
Vett registry had wholly failed?—(Hear, hear.) It
, thisit' he believed, to be urged, in opposition to his motion,e
khoritowat an interference with the prerogative the
talt;; uat of
he maintained that that prerogative was granted
o,`and ought to be held only—for the public good.—
:.
went
It was a poor compliment, indeed, to their
Ding, whose humane disposition they were all
4eti -!'ainted with, to suppose that he would allow his prero.
Forthe° %Stand between men and their fair and just rights.
tee rights the seamen now c ontended. They asked
+Dow_
fete and respectfully to be placed on a level with their
jeete:lTP--with the other classes of his Majesty's sub-
tholod they did not seek to get above them ; he, for one,
beneath
et honour them if they were content to
.cont.inue
ite thee%itonLi "' (L d cheers.) With these observations,
Leto lee-- tmpTyinuouve for " A select committee,
.. to take
by llinderation the practicability of devising some plan
Prue eh a regular and voluntary supply of seamen may be
Peace, for his Majesty's navy, without recourse to the
resum,- td:thee forcible impressment." Mr. Buckingham
to --'1 ale seat amidst considerable cheering, which lasted
rnore
r se'
l'e s" • YOUNG seconded the motion. He had
kir that the necessity for bringing it forward would
hen: beet' superseded by the concession of the right bon.
eitbi'et at the head of the Admiralty, for he was sure the
te'vtoellsein: gentleman could
. not have forgotten the une-
tihett it' expression of feeling on the subject
. in that house
teat! was 'vas last under discussion. This hope had been
Pro-*Yenconraged from the new regulation which it was
' aitoPeled;to adopt, of discharging 500 men from the navy
by tal:ar'ng 1,000 boys ; and from the bill introduced
at a e-,,g?terntnent, to do away with service in the navy
ininel„-mahnient for the crime of smuggling, thus en-
htdo,g the character of the service, and holding out
toes! ha to men voluntarily to enter it. Impress.
Sri iladbeen upheld on the ground of necessity (that
Le, fj,,n hitherto the only plea for its continuance), but
i
eveor; tlO, denied that that necessity existed. At a
red a; was Plea of necessity had never been made out,
t tlo-n-e," Well known, both Lord Camden and Lord
to no Well
it. It had been asserted that the
Jo
Il
ara
wewere
honour
themselves quite indifferent on the subject.
Lad tat
which he would refer to the petition he
%tee eto h, "(Mout that day of presenting to the house, from
te„„_,auors of North Shields, and the strong terms of
4at'uiliation which they used as to the system of impress-
they As et proof, too, of the progressive advance which
oat of
making in civilization, be begged to state, that
tioh, B,!lie 805 subscribers to the petition, there were
incioa, who made that mark which proved them to be
ProWe of Writing. He trusted the time was fast ap-
this ,fttg, When the British sailors would be released from
Ittenel.' and degrading system—when proper induce-
%knot; y°lllntary enlistment would be employed—when
‘rotilo-°ll Would be by merit, and when prize money
-Sip lj'e rnore equally distributed.
inalld' AmEs GRAHAM for a few minutes was very
thatdale
-gat he ' We understood the right hon. baronet to say,
lestie should have appealed to the courtesy of the hon.
Puldrehau Mr..Buckingliam) to postpone his motion,
tunnel te with propriety have done so. But he was
nuke Laai it would not be consistent with his duty
can heres..f 4 4 request, because by postponing it, the mo.
i_ealin anit.e, r might not have that full hearing, and that
Mee de 4P4Bionate discussion which its high impor-
to, mended, and which it was necessary for the best
-ereao, of ,
ore, lie Zeln:eotantry should be conceded to it. There-
esPeeitlty freoonticut on the grounds stated—and more
to come to
4... a regard for the
great maritime interest—
point of preroeat deliberation of the subject. For the
Sheffield, that if he
Could assure the lion. member for
teas acting for the y it, maintenance he did not think he
" the h 1 eiciencY of the service, and the good
w 0 e I '
%fend •. , realm, le for en would never attempt to
'••••-••tflear b e had a -
Pealed..
ministers
tha to grant this committee, on the ground
. 0h,,.` ,_°Y to, doing they would add to their reputation, and
hu'mn a considerable increase of popular favour. Now,
-.could
World assure the hon. member, that no men in thee
to the Were more sensible of the vast services rebudterodn
the Lta by the popular favour they bad enjoyed;
_u ,_
sire
of hand, be must be permitted to say, that the de-
' - °lapplause, however grateful it might be,
notibi Popular .
thee 'lever shake their firmness of purpose if they thought
- tae,;;:ere right, or induce them to swerve for one mo-
fore the strict line of their public duty. There-
etl-e 'n this as in ever) other instance, they would not do
Ithiug 1 ' • hthe intention of obtaining
po,,e, u the hope, or with
tie favour; but their conduct would he guided by
TatWe consideration of what was best calculated to insure
stoetY. and increase the general interest of the state.
he last Z. gentleman (Mr. Buckingham) stated that since
r:s,..un, ;ought forward his motion, he had had many op-
Thi,
the of acquiring valuable information on the subject
of'
r‘a he seafaring men
at the out-ports, and in the north
I,e_. gland,
He (Sir James) certainly must say that the
reaontl gentle He
had brought his motion forward in a
'411441'4 which was unexceptionable.—(Hear, hear.) He
and the °: hut admire the talent which lie had displayed,
.
tossed emPer with which the hon. gentleman had dis-
-1.44,,,,.."1e question.--(Cheers ) On a subject such as
ledel-ment, Where declamation• might almost naturally be
be ged in, 11_,
be excited,
an thought il: u when the feelings could easily . _
rojember to 8, ahowed no common judgment in an hon.
erg". 'ate his points in PO fair, so dispassionate, and would eientative a manner, as be was sure the house
(Lo o agree with le
o„,t' cheers , im, had been done that evening.—
rent"'•cd to the •J He regretted to have seen speeches attn.
to
the
4"- gentleman, which were of a very dare-
: oet.pprt er, and which, from having been delivered at
eyes bolllid -.3' B:light have caused unpleasant feelings. Ile
ei to say
*h. 1,3 g been os 1 however, that a full atonement had that
etosltn the pomade. He was convinced that the course
stileet to a-n• Member proposed—that of referring the
vintage b "Mmittee—could not either with safety or
not resin
the tette,.
Were his opinion not so, he for one would
Wit iiiee ;notion The hon.'
member asked if the house
443
eerakte
•
bo es) %yam o Into decide upon the question?
Whet
on 01. 'tie last person to deny the competency of the
4"oottlier theylit or
y other subject; but would merely ask
t em,e larite_,Would not have a better chance of coming. to
tiriilueeo to ‘allnle result% by leaving the question to be in-
' e adriser 8 house in some way or other by the
. respon
lit? the ore 3,. of the crown, when the whole subject might,
coulereo e
e in or nt,Btages, be completely and effectually con-
soole of hi:tad••••••-(Hear.) The lion. member, in the
(ee,u,etweee ?marks, had thought to institute a.cor.npairi.-
ere eaglet, ,•ruPresament and slevery ; but thoe in us
'''"t blot
()a) °Pinion, would nut at all hold good ; foothe
l'well'"erat•et slevery was, that it enforced lauour without
"t an i-°•-•••(Nu•) N in the naval service, there
ftealli -IP'e Leith' • Now,
tea. es, am lea afforded to sailors to provide,
for their
os delnae ha thee received wages regularly. file hon.
e t Petitio d beat argued that, though the sailors had
tc.)l3strtied ant on
on this subject, their silence was not to be
I4te °/*P°lllln7t;lnY thing like indfference, as they le!r1 not
Tolvaa neceees," of meeting which other classes enjoyed.
iere teat Y the points should be met, arid met fairly.
l)ruwer
nt. once an opportunity, when the seamen had the
424 it, natiZriejaing the tight of petition—a moment of
tell';',1): , hist rodciatrest, which was too memorable in
4"
mltl hi, ;') ' 4r an to be ignorant of—and
a ii.t
.., -..eEr petal y man
to ''' eight 0 on set forth ? Oa that occasion in
vatioa mentioned. r ten grievances, impressment was not
, . e; , e, they io, ,--(Rear, hear.) On the point of prero-
wa_ot to the
ereoelvvevulence, not merely of the prescriptive
th'earelinetioneo b 0 as to impressment, but that that right
But ief" of
Iyd:statute, and had been so frequency from
the bona e this ~ Will statute,
tile Third down to the present day.
(instead ranyetr"nt there was any doubt in the mind of
o, d of the ' how there
much more preferable would it be
an, on h• course o
bill, and 13 own
tea now propured) for the lion. gentle-
Op. io 'C' settle th Ponsibility, to introduce a declaratory
fact rl, n, the hon. e question at once. Leaving matters of
Ze_4 assertion.,
that entlernan had approached matters of
, t. had bee
nin a time of props peace, impiess-
hi`°44lunent we
asexerciled. His (Sir James Graham's)
the
ilnatement wacaertainly great when he heard this; but
i_
tu" o• gentletna considerably increased when he heard
4 knee
occurred 11 specify the actual time when such an
Yea) the hon, gentleman had gone

nto minute details, and actually brought the eyes of the
house to the very year be alleged such impressment had
taken place. He (Sir James Graham) again repeated,
that he had heard that et it.enrnt with the utmost asto-
nishment. It was tls only instance adduced by the hon.
gentleman ; yet how was it borne out by facts ? He as-
serted that press wan ants were issued in 1832, during
the period of the embargo on Dutch vessels; the seamen
were impressed, and the vessels were sent round from
Liverpool to take nut the men. The bon. gentleman must
have been strangely misinformed. What be bad stated
was not the fact.--(Hear, hear.) No press warrants
were issued since the conclusion of the war in 1815, and
no difficulty had at all arisen in 1832 of obtaining the
necessary complement of men.—(flear, hear.) A vesse I,
it was quite true, was sent sound to Liverpool, but her
destination there was to receive volunteers who were most
anxious to enter under the British flag.--(Hear, hear, in
which Mr. Sheil's voice was particularly iFstinguisbed.)
He (Sir James Graham) well understood the cheer of the
hon. member for Tipperary, and what he thought he could
convey by that expression of his feelings. He considered
the willingness of those men to serve his Majesty might
be adduced as an argument against his positions, and, there-
fore, that the question could be at once disposed of. The
hon. gentleman could not correctly arrive at such a con-
clusion. The time should be taken into account, and the
peculiar nature of the duty which it was considered the
fleet would then have to discharge. If the hon. gentle-
man had reflected on this, perhaps his opinion might have
undergone some change.—(Hear.) He (Sir James Gra-
ham) far from being friendly to the system of impress-
ment, and considered it should never be resorted to ex-
cepting in cases of extreme and urgent necessity—times of
peril, moments of danger, when every consideration should
bend to the imperative call of the country's interest.—
(Hear, hear.) He felt that the King's service ought to
be made as attractive and as comfortable as it could allow
for seamen. This could be only done by an adhesion to
three points that ought never to be departed from—namely,
first to hold out encouragement to merchant seam en to
enter the royal navy ; secondly, by good treatment when
on board ; and, thirdly, by conferring promotion on zealous
and efficient services. Provision for age should also be
recollected, in order that he who had passed the best days
of his life in an arduous service, might be sure of at least
a protection from want in the decay and helplessness of old
age.—(Hear.) Having gone thus far, he would proceed
to state what had been done since 1815 to carry the views
of the hon. member for Sheffield into operation. First, as
to the wages of seamen, he would for a moment recall the
lattention of the house to the altered value of money,
which had materially increased the pay of the sailor ;
added to which, the pay was nominally enlarged in 1825,
indeed, so much so, that at present there was not more than
one-eighth difference between the wages in the King's
and the the merchants' service, and when the superior
quality of the provisions were considered, they might be
then said to be fairly equalized. The King's sixpence was
allotted so as to benefit the sailor, and the profit of the
the purser, which was formerly at the expense of the sailor,
was now reduced so much as only to allow the country
not suffering by the sale of provisions below the wonted
standard of valise. The scale of pensions had been likewise
increased, and at the present moment the regulation was,
that a man, after 20 years' service, was entitled to the allow-
ance of 101 a day; or if he had lost a limb or his health
was injured in the service, no matter the time employed,
he had the same allowance—(Hear)—thus, the measures
of amelioration up to the period of the last debate in that
house. He should now proceed to detail what had been
done since that period, to render the King's service more
acceptable to seafaring men. A complaint had often been
made, and before the time to which he was desirous to
direct the attention of the House, not sufficiently attended
to, and which was found to have been productive of the
greatest personal inconvenience. A vessel might be on
a foreign station two or three years, and during that
service the seaman had not the power to draw any
portion of his wages. A former Board had, indeed, allowed
4s. per month, but that was not sufficient every luxury
might be around, yet the sailor, although 50/, perhaps
were due to him by the country, could not satisfy his
wishes or his wants. An arrangement had been just
made by which the sailor would be permitted to draw
1/. per month, which would not interfere with the whole
some practice of enabling his family to draw that sum at
home necessary for their support in his absence. The
sailors formerly were objects of high consideration with
the country ; but in thinking of them the absent father
or husband was not forgotten.—(Hear.) The distribu-
tion of prize money had also been placed upon a better
footing. At former periods prizes were so disposed of in
the navy, that letters of margee were followed, and the
privateer service became so popular, that the decks of its
vessels never failed to be adequately and sufficiently
manned. A proclamation had been recently issued by his
Majesty, granting a new scale of prize money--(Hear)—
which could not fail to be recognized as most just and
encouraging. For every 10,0001. taken, the seaman's
former share was Si., at present it would be 151.
(Hear, hear.) This increase would not be fed by deduct •
ing from the old ranks in the navy, but from a reduction
lin the allowance to the Admiralty.—(Hear, he ir . ) The
custom-of sending smugglers to serve in the navy for five
years, as a punishment for the offence, bad been justlyde-
nounced. It was converting the King's vessels into prison
ships. It was a stain that could net be too soon removed.
Another plan was to induce boys of good character
to enter the service, to place them under the pennant
with fair hopes of their future advancement and
benefit to their country. One thousand lads had already
entered ; and however the service might be dispraised, it
promised most fairly for them. Ile could assure the
house every attention that could be paid was given to the
subject by his Majesty's ministers. It hal occupied their
patient and most serious inquiry ; they duly considered
its importance ; and their peat desire was, that such a
mighty arm of our strength should he strengthened, not
paralysed; worthy of the body with which it was con•
nect,d—worthy of the country it was destined to defend.
If the subject was left in the hands of ministers, hon.
members might rest satisfied that those progressive im-
provements would take place which the hon. member fur
Sheffield was so desirous to further. He (Sir J. Graham)
was likewise anxious that the merchant service—that
nursery which cradled our seamen—that school in which
they were taught their first and most useful lesions—
should also have that attention paid to it which its value
and its present state so urgently required. During the
recess, it had occupied his undivided attention, and he
had proposed a bill to consolidate the different laws relat-
ing to the merchant service, and to effect a snore complete
registration throughout the kingdom. That bill was then
ready.—(Hear.) From its operations, if it became law,
lie looked for the lost results. The name of Nelson bad
been introduced into the speech of the hon. member for
Sheffield, and his great authority quoted its opposed to
impressment. Any thing uttered by that illustrious cha-
racter must of course have great weight, and be heard
with almost reverential attention. It so happened, bow.
ever, that be (Sir James Graham) had the advantage of
hearing from a distinguished officer, who bad enjoyed a
large portion of Lord Nelson's confi•fence, a far differ. nt
version of his lordship's sentiments. He alluded to Sir T.
Hardy. Lord Nelson had indeed regretted the stern
necessity of impressment, but considered the navy could
not be manned without having recourse to its repulsive
laws. He felt, however, that by proper regulations, the
necessity might be considerably lessened. Those regula•
done, ministers wished to see adopted.—(Hear, hear.)
By the bill, which he bad proposed, every seafaring man
would be compelled to have a certificate, and if found
wanting, such compulsory service should be the penalty.
One difficulty certainly presented itself, of which he did
not then see the means of extrication. He alluded to the
case of sailors on foreign stations, but that would be of
course subject for after consideration. If all means failed,
the power of impressment should be held in reserve ; it
ought not lightly to be dispensed with. The house
which he then had the honour to address, was a delibe-
rative assembly; they were not, he trusted, to be moved,
unless ample cause were shown; they would not unre-
fleetingly do that which might render less efficient a ser-
vice to which the empire could so proudly refer. The
hon. mover had spoken uf the non-effectiveness of the
navy in consequence of impressment. He would, in
answer, refer to Carnperdown, St. Vincent, the Nile, and
Trafalgar.—(Hear, hear.) The men who had fought
and conquered in those battles were impressed.—(Hear,
hear.) What, then, became of the hon. member's asser-
tion? The fact be t Sir James Graham) had stated
could not be disputed ; it spoke in a language not to
be misunderstood. Ile should again call upon the
house to pause, to weigh well the decision they intended
coming to that evening; upon it much depended. If they
once denounced impressment, it would be impossible after-
wards to recall their vote ; their resolution could not be
rescinded. And should impressment afterwards be found
necessary, with what face could they proceed ? Without
going into the inquiry sought, let a desultory inquiry take
, place, and permit a responsible Minister of the Crown to
introduce a measure of six months' preparation—a measure
I which, he felt assured, would be found to work well. Ile
had been told so, and he gave every credence to the source
from whence lie had derived his information. The heads
of the intended bill were, first, to give facilities to parishes
to apprentice youths; these facilities they then had in re-
spect to the mercantile, but the bill provided they should
be extended to the Royal Navy. Secondly, that rules should

he -established for keeping up a complete registration ;
thirdly, that indulgence and protection should be afforded
to seamen in the merchant service, and that means should
be within their reach of obtaining their wages ; and fourth-
ly, which was of paramount importance, the condemning
of a practice which was more than of rare occurrence—he
alluded to the custom of masters leaving their men on
foreign shores, to the evident prejudice of the country; for
the men thus deserted by him who should be their protec-
tor frequently ent,red the service of the state on which
they were thrown, or, more frequently, became pirates.
These were the points which his bill intended to carry
into effect; and, after Easter, he was willing to send it up
to a committee, if such was in accordance with the wishes
of the house.—(Hear, hear.) All inconveniences would
thus lie obviated, and there would be no danger of unduly
interfering with a service, on the efficiency of which de-
pended the safety, the honour, and the independence of this
common country.—(Cheers.) The right lion. baronet
concluded by proposing an amendment for leave to bring
in a bill to consolidate and amend the law relating to mer-
chant seamen, and to keep up a more effectual registration
of seafaring men.

Mr. ROBINSON asked whether the proposition for a
committee up stairs did not receive an inconceivable addi-
tion of force from the announcement of this measure on
the part of the Government? If there was any individual
in whose hands he should be disposed to leave the question
it was in those of the right hon. baronet. But he denitd
that this was a subject to he dealt with by any individual,
and especially by any one in the immediaot service of the
Crown. The right hon. gentleman had asked would it
be prudent to take away this privilege of the Crown in
all cases? He (Mr. Robinson) bad had great experience,
both in commercial shipping and in ships of war, and he
should therefore answer decidedly in the negative, that it
would not be prudent to deprive the Crown of the power
of impressment in cases of great emergency. But because
thus much was admitted, was there any necessity that the
system should remain in its present state, and with its pre-
sent unlimited powers ? One of the great complaints
urged against this prerogative was that its adoption wan
not confined to cases of great emergency, but exercised by
every commissioned officer in the navy at his own discre-
tion or caprice. He should be very sorry to say anything
against the fairness or moderation of the officers of his Ma-
jesty's navy, with many of whom he had enjoyed a long anti
friendly intimacy ; but still he must be permitted to assert
that this power had often been used most unfairly, most un-
wisely, and most capriciously. It was true that cases of this
kind occurred more rarely at present, in the time of
peace, than formerly; yet was that any reason why the
house should not interfere with the unconstitutional prin-
cipte of the system itself, with a view to the prevention
of wrong in the event of another war breaking out? The
right hon. baronet need not fear that the house would
take up this inquiry rashly, and upon theoretical prin-
ciples, merely to destroy a power which could be shown to
be practically necessary. The committee now moved for
might probably determine that this power should be re-
tained to the Crown; yet they might also, at the same
time, propose such modifications in its application as, with-
out impairing its general efficacy in time of need, would
render it less repulsive to the national feelings of the
people. The right hon. baronet had very truly said that
the naval service had lately lost very much of the disrepute
formerly attached to it. It was true that the govern-
ment and the officers themselves had done much to render
the service as acceptable as possible to the sailors under
their command, and remove the opprobrium which had
been cast upon the profession ; yet, notwithstanding all
these laudable attempts at liberality, the service could
never come fairly into favour as long as the present odious
practice of impressment was continued. The right
hon. baronet had said that in consequence of the
altered value of the currency the sailors in his Majesty's
service had now the same pay as in the merchant
service. That; was true in the time of peace, but in time
of war the case was different; and he therefore thought
the time of peace a favourable opportunity to inquire
into the hardships which pressed upon his Majesty's ser-
vants in time of war. It was well known that although
the pay in the two services was now pretty nearly equA,
if a war were to break out the pay in the merchants' ser-
vice would immediately be increased four or five pounds
per month, and the consequence would be the same disin-
clination on the part of the men to enter his Majesty's
navy as formerly. And it was very natural, too, that
men should feel a distaste for a service into which they
were not only compulsorily impressed, but at lower wages
than they could get in another to which they wereadmitted
by their own free will and agreement. Under circum-
stances like these the practice of forcible impressment
was an unjustifiable iaterference, not only with the per-
sonal liberty of the subject, but also with his only pro-
perties—his time and his labour.—(Hear, hear.) Ano-
ther serious inconvenience in the time of war which
deterred the sailor from the national navy was the in-
definite period of the service in it. When a sailor
was ordered upon a foreign expedition, whatever
might be his natural disinclination against that
particular destination, or against the officer who com-
manded, or the rest of the crew who worked the ship,
there was no help for him ; go be must. And very
often it would happen, as in the late wars, that the whole
of his life would be spent in this forced hanisliment.
Another principal. point upon which the naval service la-
boured under popular disrepute was the nature of the
discipline which it was alleged the efficiency of the service
demanded. Whatever might be his opinion upon this
subject in principle, he was bound to state that he had
been from time to time in many of his Majesty's ships,
and that from all his own experience there lie had no
reason to believe that the powers vested in the officers in
command had been exerted with any undue severity. But
he would relate one circumstance which had fallen within
his own observation, and which was a striking instance of
the hardships entailed on the seamen by this system of
forced servitude. It occurred that when the fleet was at
a foreign station, the Admiral, fearing that desertion
would be attempted, issued an order to the whole fleet,
to prevent any sailor from going ashore during the whole
of their stay. Now, how could it be supposed that such
an excessive interference with the liberties anti the enjoy-
ments of the men could be tolerated with any degree of
good will on tl eir part; or with any credit to the service ?
The right hon. baronet said be had devised means by
which the grievances at present complained of might, one
time or other, be alleviated. as by the use of ballot or other-
wise, though he was not very clear upon these points,. But
he (Mr. Ribinson) hoped the house would not give its
support to the amendments of that right honourable
member, which would totally defeat the object of the
original motion. The right hon. baronet doubtless felt a
little jealousy at an interference with him in matters which
fell directly within his office, and he was therefore not the
person whom he could expect to find voting for a com-
mittee of this sort. He did entreat the house, however,
' not to be carried away by the plausible arguments of the
right hon. baronet, but to vote in favour of the motion
before them for the appointment of a committee, which,
without interfering unnecessarily with the royal prero-
gative, might at least suggest some alterations in the me-
thod of impressment if they would not entirely abolish
it. The present system of impressment was not only a
great violation of the natural liberti,s of the subject, but
also operated as a very great hardship to the interest of
the merchant service in tittle of war. To avoid impress-
men , sailors were then driven into holes and corners, and
higher prices were obliged to be offered to induce them to
take employment. Not to detain the house any longer he
would merely thank the right hon. baronet fur the feel-
ings he had been induced tvi express upon the principle of
the system, and entreat the house not only to adopt the
motion before them, but to urge his Majesty's government
to co.operate with them in the removal of the grievances
complained of.—( Hear.)
Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON was not desirous to
wrest any prerogative from Isis Majesty, but he only re-
quired that seamen should be placed on the same footing
as other classes of the King's subjects. He recollected an
instance of one seaman who had been impressed, and who
had served with him afterwards for the period of nine
years. At the end of that period he asked for his dis•
charge—and, from the length and nature of his services,
he was fully entitled to it—but the man's application was
refused. The difficulties in the way of impressed sailors
to obta n their discharge were great. Besides, sailors in
the royal navy did not obtain wages equal to their merits,
and they were not encouraged to enter the service by
receiving bounty, as soldiers did for engaging in the land
service. It was his decided opinion that if seamen were
fairly treated, they would enter the royal navy in prefer.
ence to engaging in the merchant service. The bad
treatment they had received was in a great measure the
consequence of the present system of impressment. In
the merchant service seamen underwent double the labour
they did in the n ivy, but then they were more kindly
treated--they were alowed to go on shore, and to coin-
!nunicate with their families, whilst in the royal navy those
indulgences were not extended to them. He remembered
that at the battle of Tnifalgar he bad in his ship an ex-
cellent sailor, an Atnercan, who was a pressed man. This
man had been pressed into the Terrible; in order to get
home to his country, be went to the West Indies in an Eng-
lish ship as an Englishman ; be was there pressed again,
came back to England, and was eventually sent to him. This
man said that he would be glad to remain in the English
navy, but that he had a wife and family in America with
whom he could not communicate because he bird been

impressed. The truth was, that in consequence of the
odium attendant on the system of impressment in the eyes
of foreigners, it was difficult to get them to have anything
to do with the service. There was another evil attendant
on this system, namely, that a bad set of fellows were
often picked up and sent among the fleet. He would
mention an instance in which 27 fellows picked up in
London had been forced upon him. He would rather
not have anything to do with them, for he was sure they
would demoralize his men, and he was very glad to find a
way of getting rid of them. They were only looking for
an opportunity and the very first one they had they pro-
fited by. One fine day they manned the boats, and every
one of them ran away. —(Laughter.) The house might
believe that he was not very sorry for their desertion.
With respect to the way sailors used to he paid, he always
objected to the power of paying them in paper money.
In consequence of their being paid with paper money, they
received 6s. in the pound less than their due, and when-
ever that particular question should come fully before the
house, he should claim for the whole navy 63. in the pound
as being still due to them on the whole amount of their
wages.—(Laughter and Hear.) He begged to mention
what occurred to him on this subject once when he was
stationed cff Gibraltar, where the men received in dollars
14s. for their pound of paper money. The men came
upon the quarter-deck. and asked him what was to be done?
His answer was, the thing could not be helped. So the men
went away contented. But if he had told the men that paying
them in this way, with paper money, was a robbery on the
part of the government, it would have caused a mutiny in
the fleet.—(Hear, and laughter.) Though he had men
that had been pressed in jaia ship, he had never, himself,
pressed men in his life ; and he knew several instances of
men returning on board ship from foreign countries, allow
themselves to be headed up in casks, and undergo other
hard privations, rather than submit to impressment. It
way a well known fact that, during the war, the sailors
returning in fleets from the West Indies, the South Seas,
and other parts, used, on their arrival off the coast of
England, to he taken out of their ships—sent on board
the royal navy, without having been allowed to touch
shore, or to communicate with their families—and that
other men used to be put on board the returning trading
vessels, to navigate them up the Thames. He hoped the
house would allow him to briefly express his opinion on
the subject of corporeal punishments. He granted that he
once supported the principle in that house. What be
meant to say by this was, that he objected to an alteration
for the substitution of other species of punishment. He
confessed that it was a painful and degrading thing that it
should be imposed upon officers and gentlemen to see cor-
poreal punishment carried into execution ; but before it
was changed, he should he glad to see some better substi-
tute proposed. He recollected the instance of a marine,
who, in order to avoid the infliction of a thousand lashes.
committed a crime in order to be transported. He would
repeat, that he should be glad to see some good substitute
for corporeal punishment ; end should be happy if any one
could devise a mode of punishment that would be more
pleasing and agreeable to soldiers and sailors.—(Laugh-
ter.) They had no black holes on board ships, and
there were many sorts of punishments suggested, that
would be more strongly objected to on the part of
soldiers and sailors than the present mode. It was a
common error to imagine that good men were punished
—it was only the scum of the earth that were flogged—
(A latigh)—and for his own part, he would say, that
every lash inflicted on the back of a good man, was twice
as painful and severe upon him as it was on the person
punished.—(Flear.) In consequence of impressment, so
great was the desire of escape at the end of the war, that
they were obliged to give up a proposed plan of using
large pieces of cork on board, to prevent the sailors from
being drowned. It was feared if these pieces of cork
were introduced, that the sailors would slip down on
them, and use them as a means of escape. He believed
that if they went into committee some mode might be
devised to get rid of the odious system of impressment.
The hon. and gallant admiral concluded by saying that he
cordially supported the motion of the hon. member for
Sheffield.

Captain ELLIOTT said that the hon. mover bad
brought forward two instances to prove that impress-
ment was unjust, inefficient, and unnecessary. For his
own part, he had commanded a ship from the breaking
out of the war ; and, in consequence of the general sys-
tem that then prevailed, it was impossible to keep ships
manned without having recourse to impressment. Two
officers had been mentioned, Lord Exmouth and the lion.
and gallant member for Davenport, as never having em-
ployed pressed men.
Sir E. CODRINGTON—I said I never myself im-
pressed men, but that I had pressed men on board my ves-
sel who had been sent to me by order of the Admiralty.
Captain ELLIOTT—The nature of the hon. and gal-
lant member's statement was such as to make the house
believe that so little impressment was necessary, that ships
could be manned without having recourse to it. In re-
ferring to certain returns, he found that in the gallant ad-
miral's ship, for the space of four and a half years, the
number of pressed men were seven, nut of a crew of 614
men whom he had during that period. Now, the question
was, how many volunteers were to be found in that num-
ber? Only five; so that there were 609 men serving on
board at forced service. Without throwing himself upon
other officers for relief, it was clear, then, that the crew of
this ship could not be kept up to its full complement. He
(Captain Elliott) never had recourse to other officers to
keep up his crew complete. In the instance of Captain
Pellew, whose ship had been first manned before the re-
volutionary war, every man was a volunteer, because it
was before the first peace. Captain Pellew remained ten
months in the ship he alluded to ; she was completely
manned by volunteers, and yet during those ten months
there were no less than 51 desertions, being an average per
annum of a desertion for every third man and a half. He
would quote another instance that related to the ship the
Indefatigable. On board her half the crew was composed
of volunteers, and the other half of men that had been im-
pr•ssed ; and )et the average yearly desertion was only
one man in nine. He would now come to a ship after-
wards commanded for four years (as we understood by
Captain Pellew also), and during that time only one in
30 deserted. These instances he considered sufficient
proofs that impressment was not the cause of desertion ;
but that, on the contrary, in proportion to the number of
men impressed on board, the number of deserters was
'educed. For his own part, he confessed, however un-
popul ir such an avowal might be, that, considering it a
duty he owed to the service to keep the ship manned
which had been intrusted to him by his King and his
country, he bad never hesitat d, in order to keep her
manned, to have recourse to impressment when he found
it impossible to get volunteers ; nor did he ever hesitate to
employ corporeal punishment when it was found necessary
for the good discipline of his ship. From April, 1807, to
December, 1812, the total number of desertions on the
280 men he commanded was nine—being about an annual
average of one desertion out of 171 men. Notwithstand-
ing this, his ship was manned differently, and upon dif-
ferent principles, from the ships commanded by Captain
Pellew; for Capt. Pellew had in one ship 95 men forced
into the service, he had them ten months, and not quite that
number of volunteers. In the next ship he bad 340, which
he got from the receiving ships ; and in the third ship
he had 126 men, also from the receiving ships, with
26 man that he was obliged himself to impress; making
a total of 162 men forced into the service. He had no
volunteers, since he was obliged afterwards to have re-
course to impressment ; and then, as he bail before stated,
the number of desertions among Captain Pellew's crews
diminished. From these calculatioos, lie (Capt. Elliott)
thought that he had fully proved to the House that de-
sertion did not depend on impressment. He could any,
of his own experience, that lie never knew the sailors, as
a body, complain either of the power of impressment or of
corporeal punishment; what he heard them complain of
was the abuse of these powers. With respect to the al.
lu,ions made io the mutiny at the Nora, the seamen there
knew well enough that impressment was in vogue, and
they did not make it a chief cause of complaint. The
grievances they then complained of had since been success-
fully remedied. The fact was, that impressment, under
some shap-, existed in every country. If they went to
America it would be found another thing—(Hear)—at
any rate it existed in all the old countries of Europe : it
existed in Portugal; in Spain, fur the Spanish mode of
registration was little better than impressment ; it existed
in Holland, or something very nearly the same, since men
„Tre there pressed for soldiers, and they had the option
of serving in the navy or on land.—(A laugh.) Worse
than our impressment was the system adopted in Russia.
Colonel TORRENS sass understood to express the opi-
nion that impressment was a dormant power, very
rarely used, and then only in cases of extreme emergency.
He thought, therefore, that the Crown might safely retain
that power.

-
Mr. WARRE said, that under the present circum-
stances, and in consequence of the right hon. baronet's
amendment, he thought it might be more advisable that
the boa! tnemoer for Sheffield should withdraw his motion.

Mr. INGHAAI begged to ask the right hon:7.onet
opposite, in reference to his proposed plan of registering
sea uen, whether it was his intention to introduce a
clause into Isis bill, for the purpose of making it avail-
able to•government to supply the navy wi►h men by ro-
tation, when suff►cient men could not be got for the
exigencies of the navy as volunteers? He also wished

to know whetber the service to be required of men in
the merchant service was to ty... I mited ?

Sir JAMES GRAHAM was understood to siy, that
his prolmsed measure made no pr,,,ision as to the mer-
chant service. 11,, in :sttre l,y.him was confined
to the registration of s,uneu. \V, :t ultimate measures
might be proposed shmild, in same m 'sure, depend on the
degree of success attending the r.,g.s.rv:oa. The expe-
rknce of n century and a hail shooed the difficulty of
such a scheme ; and though he mis aware of the diffi-
culty, he was still in hopes that a plan might be discovered
to answer the ends in view.

Admiral FLEMING said that, though the statement of
the lion. member had made a considerable impression
upin him, be was still disposed to vote for the amend-
ment of the right hon. baronet, because he thought it
would have the effect of accomplishing the object which
the hon. member had in view, and that more safely and
gradually than if his motion were agreed to.
Captain DUNDAS said that "impressed seamen now
wore the same ribbon which the S2eaker displayed upon
his breast. —(A laugh.)
Mr. LYALL thought that, in case of war, impress-
ment could not be dispensed with. In the merchant set--
vice a man was able, after four or fife months' voyage,to
return to his family and friends ; but in the navy men
were separated from their families for five, six, or seven
years, without the possibility of once seeing them. This
was a sacrifice which no money could compensate, and
money therefore would not be sufficient to induce men to
enter the naval service. Many eminent lawyers had
given their opinion as to the legality of the practice.
Among others, Wedderburn and Sergeant Glyn, two of
the most eminent lawyers of their time, had said that im -
pressment was not only legal, but of imrneineriel usage.
Mr. HUAIE said, that when the question bad for-
merly been before the house, he had always given it as
his opinion that the pay in the navy ought to be at least
equal to that of merchantmen. He now repeated, that
when merchantmen gave their seamen 5/. wages, the
navy should not give less.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The
government admitted that it would be desirable to abolish
impressment. but said that there were objections to its
abolition. Yet they opposed the motion for a committee
to inquire how these obj-ettions could be removed.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. and gallant Secretary of the
Admiralty opposite had boasted that the whole navy was
manned by impressment during the war ; but, good God!
were they not now, when in a state of profound peace,
to take means to get such an evil removed ?—(Hear,
hear.) The right hon. baronet should have at once
come forward and stated manfully whether he thought
impressment a subject fit to be inquired into or not ; but
instead of that, he stated that he had a measure in hand
on the subject. This was a trick—(No, no)—a House
of Commons' trick, only resorted to in seasons of difficulty.
After the announcement of the registration, without the
abolition of impressment, seamen would think that it was
intended only as a net by which they might be the more
easily caught.—(Hear, hear.) He knew many seamen
who were not for the abolition of impressment, but
who still thought that it should only be exercised
in cases of emergency. These persons said, let there
be impressment in cases of emergency ; but let it be
made legal, and let the periods at which it shall be
made be fixed.—(Efear. hear.) And he (Mr. Hume)
agreed with them that Parliament ought to fix these pe-
riods, en that if he (Mr. Hume) or any other gentleman in
that house, were impressed—(A laugh)—he could not
but ray that that was a very childish laugh.—(Loud
laughter.) It was utterly unworthy of men.—( Hear, and
a laugh.) He would say that seamen ought to have in-
creased wages until government found some substitute for
the present system. He thought the government ought
to come manfully to the question, and grant the inquiry.
Mr. LYALL said a few swords in explanation, which
were inaudible in the gallery. . . . .

Captain ELLIOTT rose to explain, and complained
that the hon. member far Middlesex had put words into
his mouth which he had never used. The hon. member
stated that he (Captain Elliott) had prided himself on the
navy having been manned during the war by impress-
ment. He (Captain Elliott) had never said any such
thing. No man regretted the necessity of impressment
more than he did, or more regretted that it could not be
entirely abolished.
Mr. HUME was sorry if he had stated anything dif-
ferent from the hon. and gallant captain's opinion. He
had certainly misunderstood him.
Lord ALTHORP then rose, and said that the question
was certainly one of the very greatest importance. It
had been said, however, that this was a question whether
impressment of seamen fur the navy should be abolished
or not, but that was not the question ; for it was satisfac •
tory to know that all parties admitted that the power of
i mpressrnent should necessarily remain in the Crown. The
question moved by the hon. member for Sheffield was for a
select committee to take into consideration the practicability
of devisingsome pl in by which a regular and voluntary supply
of seamen might be procured for the navy without recourse
to the practice of forcible impressment. The hon. mem •
ber himself admitted that the power must remain, and
the only object of his motion was to inquire whether a
more popular plan could be devised fur manning the navy,
without having recourse to it but in cases of emergency.
Now his right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham) had stated
that he had several measures in view on this very subject,
and he asked the liberty of the house for leave to bring in
a hill for the establishment of a sufficient registry of sea.
n en. The hon. member had admitted that any plan for
the abolition of impressment must be founded on registra-
tion ; and when it was asked whether his right hon. friend
meant to go further tli.n a simple registration, he said
certainly; but tit it that could not be done until it was
ascertained if the registration was efficient for the purpose
intended. It would be on the registration, if successful,
that any future measures should be founded. The very
object which the hon. member for Sheffield had in view,
was the one which they also had in view. Would the
house, then, at the very moment the government were
proceeding to bring in measures to effect this object, take
the business out of their hands, merely because the hon.
member had made this motion ?—(Hear, hear.) He
knew that many members, who were not aware of the
intentions of government, had come down with the inten.
tioa of voting fur the motion of the hon. member, but
would now abstain from so doing.—(Hear, hear.) The
hon. member fur Middlesex had said that the plan pro-
posed by the government was attnere ttick. What trick?
—(Hear, hear.) They were trying to mitigate an evil,
which all admitted tc be au evil ; but which all admitted
to be a necessary one.—(Hear, bear, and No, no, from
Mr. Young.) The hon. member who seconded the mo-
tion says that he did not say it was an evil.
Mr. YOUNG—I said it may be an evil.
Lord ALTHORP—He (Lord Alrhorp) would ask how
this country would like, in time of war, to see the
enemy's fleet at sea, while her own fleet could not leave
her harbours for want of seamen to man it.—(Hear, hear.)
He admitted that the power of impressment should be put
in practice as seldom as possible; but if it were abolished
entirely, they might find that before the country could be
sufficiently protected, the men who should in the first
instance have affurded that protection would be lodged in
the prisons of the enemy. He thought that everything
should be dune to mitigate the evils attendant on the
system, but that the system itself should not be abolished.
He thought that the system of registration proposed by
his right lion. friend one likely to introduce improve-
ment in the manner of classing the men, and regulating
the period of their services. He trusted that in these
circumstances the house would place confidence in his
right hon. friend, and instead of taking the subject out of
his hands would rather give him credit for pursuing that
course which ho thought most likely to have the effect
desired by all parties.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUCKINGHAM rose to reply, and said, that if
a system of rotation were introduced, and if impress.
ment were only practised at periods of emergency, much
good would be done. But he doubted if s. amen would be
inclined to register, if some provisions of that nature
were not added to the plan of the right hon. baronet.
He could not see on what principle the government came
into the market to buy stores, masts, &c., while they
refused to pay the market price fur teen.—(Hear, hear.)
As to the extent of the p:eregative, he knew it to be the
opinion of able lawyers, that it extended to the impress-
ment of seamen within the narrow seas, for the defence
of the country, but not on the ocean ; and for the defence
of the colonies, in all parts of the globe. The several
positions which had been that evening advanced by those
hon. gentlemen who had taken the same view of the
subject as he (Mr. Buckingham) had done, had been
completely proved. They had proved the general feeling
which existed in the country on the subject of impress-
ment; they had proved the injustice and oppressiveness of
the measure ; and they had proved how strong and general
the desire was, that the law which sauct:oned such a
proceeding should be abolished. He would not detain
the house any longer, but conclude with the expression of
his hope that it would divide with him on the subject,
and grant a committee of inquiry.

Toe house then divided, when there appeared_.

For the motimi
For the amendment '2lB
. Majority for Ministers -88
TIMBER TRADE.

On our readtnis3ion to the gallery, we found

D
wiir.
dil on his legs. The lion. metubt-r brou6ht
for
relative to the timber trade between
forward Ti
m' otion

this country and Lower Canada. We understood him to
say, that the uncertainty which existed as to whether any
sPeration on the subject was in contemplation by govern-
ment, or whether they intended not to disturb, in the
course of the present session, the arrangement which now
obtained, gave rise to much uneasiness, and to great injury
to those interested in the trade. How long, he would ask
the noble lord, was this suspense to be suffered to continue?
Men were afraid to import my quautity of timber into this
country at present, until they had learnt the intentions of
Ministers, and the consequence was, that there was now
lore timber in the market than at any former period. Will
government put on heavier duties now than formerly ?
France, and Belgium, and Holland, and other countries,
were receiving their timber from the Baltic on far more
favourable terms than this country, We were carrying on
commerce with Canada at a very expensive rate. That
commerce cost us yearly ebout 2,000,000/. The hon.
gentleman concluded by moving fur "An account of the
aleount of duties levied on timber, deals, and other articles
of wood, imported from the Briisli provinces in North
Americe in each of the years 1828, 1829, 1830, 1831.
1332, and 1833; stating, also, the amount of duties which
would have been paid upon such timber, deals, and other
articles, in each year, and also the whole amount if they
had been imported from the Baltic."
Mr. FERGUS O'CONNOR seconded the motion.
Lord ALTHORP said, th it the bon. gentlemen had
asked whether he (Lord Althorp) had changed his mind
on the subject before the house. He begged to say, in
answer, that he had not changed his mini, but did not
think, under existing circumstances, that it would he a
,prudent course to press the question on the attention of
government. He conceived it was desirable that the
subject should not be gone into at present. He (Lord
Althorp) had no intention of consuming the time of the
house by any motion on the question this session. He
had no objection to the production of the papers which
the hon. gentleman had moved for except this, that they
had been already granted, on the motion of the hon. mem-
ber for Bridport.—(Laughter.)
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said, so far from hie
country beine a sufferer from the duties imposed on
timber imported from the Baltic, site was a gainer by that
impost.

Mr. ROBINSON hoped that government %mai not
sacrifice Canada, in the vain hope that, from the free ad.
mission of timber into our ports from the Baltic, Russia
would open her markets to our manufactures on the same
terms,

Mr. WARBURTON said that the general expectation
of those engaged in the timber trade was, that the duties
would be taken off the timber imported from the Baltic.
If the noble lord thought that the putting off the question
for the present session would not prove injurious to trade,
be was greatly mistaken. The postponement of the
question would be productive of great disappointment and
injury to those engaged in the timber business.

Mr. G. F. YOUNG said that it was a fallacy to
suppose that the consumer in England would be benefited
by the lowering of the duty on the Baltic timber.
Toe motion, as we understood, was then withdrawn.
Sir F. BURDETT moved for returns of the fees levied
in the courts leet at Westminster.—Agreed to.