The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-12 00:00:00

H F

it would be convenient to place before the House an annual
statement of the sums actually expended.—( Hear.)
Mr. W. J FOX said the Hon. Member had misunderstood
hint. He had merely expressed his regret at the prospect of
educated men being placed in a situation in which they
would receive less remunerati,n than the lowest menial.

Mr. GLADSTONE concurred generally in the sentiments
expressed by the Hon. Member for Oxford ; and with refer-
epee to the unhappy differences between the Committee of
Privy Council and the National Society, were he the founder
of a school he should certainly not be disposed to adopt the
constitution to which the Committee of Privy Council had
taken objection; but, on the other hand, he did not think
that those who adopted that constitution should be excluded
altogether from part:cipation in the public grant; and if it
were true that one-seventh of the schools which had applied
for a share in the grant were excluded from it on account of
their adherence to that constitution of school, he must ex-
press regret that the Committee of Council should adhere so
strictly to its rules; and he trusted that before the subject
was again brought before the House, the wisdom and conci-
liatory temper of the GJvernment would discover some
means of remedying so serious a mischief. So much on the
general question. He now wished to have a particular point
cleared up. There was a rumour prevalent that in the case
of a particular school, which he had not heard named, the
founders, it being strictly a school of the Church of Eng-
land, applied for a grant, it being proposed by them at the
same time that the master and mistress should be communi-
cants of the Church of England, and the rumour proceeded
to say that upon that account the founders of the school were
excluded from a share in the grant.
After a few words from Mr. SLANEY and Mr. CAREW,

Lord J. RUSSELL wished to make some remarks on ac-
count of what had fallen from the lion. Member for Oxford.
The Hon. Member for Oldham had expressed a hope that
they did not intend to give up the expectation of being able
to establish a general national system of education, and he
(Lord J. Russell) had at once replied that he did not give
up the hope, but that they meant to keep it in view. From
that the Hon. Member for Oxford most strangely concluded
that the scheme which the Government meant to adopt was
that of the lion. Member for 0 idham. There was nothing
in what he said to justify such an interference. When the
scheme of the Hon. Member for Oldham was before the
House, be (Lord J. Russell) stated his objections to it. He
differed from the Hon. Member for Oldham then and now.
He thought there were two essential requisites to be observed
in a general national system of e ducation—one was, that se •
cular education should not be separated from religious educa-
tion, the other, that no child bra tight up at the cost of the
public funds should be compelled to attend to any reli-
gious instruction to which his ;parents conscientiously ob-
jected. With respect to the diffe.-ences between the National
Society and the Committee of Privy Council, the latter had
always carried on its correspond ence with the society, with
a view to coming to an agreement on those counts of differ-
, ence. It was always insisted on by the Committee of Council
that there should be lay members on the committees of
' management of the schools, and when the National Society
said that the lay members should be communicants of the
Church of England the Committee of Council agreed to it.
There remained, however, one point of difference—the Com-
mittee of Council were not prepared to afford aid to schools
where the secular instruction was entirely placed under the
direction of clerical persons, so that where the clergy differed
from all the lay members of the c onmittee of management of
a school, and appealed to the bishop, and the bishop should
go with the clergy against the lsty members, that decision
should not govern the conduct of the committee. It appea-ed
to the Committee of Council that such a course was fraught
with injurious consequences, and he ( Lord J. Russell), feeling
jealous of any increase of power accruing to the clergy, whe-
ther belonging to the Establishment or any other communion,
entertained a great objection to the proposal of the society
in the matter; and he did not think that the confidence of
the clergy had been lost by that decision. Looking, at least
to the proportion of the funds granted to each communion,
there was no ground to suppose that it had ; for nearly 79
per cent, was granted to the National Society's schools; 9
per cent. to the British and Foreign schools, 1, per cent, to
the Wesleyans, and * per cent. to the Roman Catholics.
With respect to the q ,eetion of the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Gladstone), it appeared it was proposed that the master
and mistress should be communicants of the Church of Eng-
land, whereas the terms of the union with the National So-
ciety were that the masters and mistresses should be members
of the Church of England, and the Committee of Council
thought it was better to adhere strictly to the terms of the
National Society.

Mr. GLADSTONE, in that case, hoped the decision
would be re• considered.

The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote, of 134.5601. to defray the expenses of the
Commission of National Education in Ireland, was agreed to
after a short conversation.

A vote of 15,0551. for schools of design, &c., was agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :-
2,006/ for professors in Oxford and Cambridge.
3,9201. for the Univarsity of London.
7.P, 1 0/. for universities in Scotland.
3091. for the Royal Irish Academy.
3001. for the Royal Hibernian Academy.
6,260/. for the Royal Dublin Society.
3,0001. for the theological professors of the Belfast Acade-
mical Institution.

1,620/. for the Queen's University in Ireland.
1,7001. for the National Gallery.
15,6231. for the Museum of Practical Geology, and the
geological survey of Great Britain and Ireland.
2,4211. for the magnetic observations abroad.
10,0001. for the erection of a national gallery in Edin-
burgh.

The House then resumed.
The Merchant Seamen's Fund Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
The Unlawful Oaths (Ireland) Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
The Turnpike Road (Ireland) Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
The Private Lunatic Asylum (Ireland) Bill, the Turnpikes
Acts Continuance Bill, and the Marriages (India) Bill passed
through Committee.
THE GREAT EXHIBITION.

Mr. STAFFORD then moved that an address should be
presented to her Majesty for a copy of the warrant under her
Majesty's sign manual, authorising the Commissioners for
the Exhibition of 1851 to enter upon a piece of ground in
Hyde-park, and to erect buildings thereupon for the purposes
of the Exhibition. And for a deed of covenant from the
Commissioners for the Exhibition of 1851 to the Queen's
most Excellent Majesty, to observe and perform certain terms
and conditions mentioned in the said warrant, and to reinstate
and yield up the site granted for the purposes of the Exhi-
bition.

The motion was agreed to.
Lord SEYMOUR then obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
amend two several Acts of her Majesty's reign, enabling the
Commissioners of her Majesty's Woods and Forests to pur-
chase land to form Victoria Park ; and to indemnify the
trustees of copyhold land held in trust for her Majesty;
and also a Bill to amend the Act for regulating the con-
struction and use of buildings in the metropolis and its neigh-
bourhood.

Both Bills were then brought in and read a first time.
The House then adjourned at One o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 11.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his Beaton the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.

BURGESSES AND FREEkIEN'S ENFRANCHISE-

ANENT BILL.

Lord BE AUMONT postponed the committal of this
Bill until Monday.
PRIVATE BILLS.

On the motion of Lord RE DESDALE, several private
Bills were forwarded a atage.

The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition in
favour of the preservation of the Crystal Palace, and
praying that it might be made a shot-up winter garden;
also petitions from various places against the Papal ag-
gression.