The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-01 00:00:00

Mr. JAMES bad formerly said, and be still main.
tained, that, in spite of slavery, the slaves in the We..
Indies were better off than the labourers of this country.
If the peasants of Ireland were as well off as the negroe,
of tl'e West Indie., the Hon. and Learned Member for
Dublin might indeed give up his agitation, for it woub
be useless. It might well then he said, " Othello's occu-
pation's gone."—(A laugh.) The Hon. and Learn.,
Member would truly find that the effect of his agitation
had disappeared—
" And, like the baseless fabric of a vision,
Left not Me rent behind.—(Loud laughter.)

Mr. O'REILLY would not agree to pay more than
ten millions till it was put beyond a doubt that the slaves
should enjoy freedom.
Mr. R. GORDON knew that the West Indians looked
with great Warm to any ch inge in this part of the mea
sure, and he earnestly hoped that the House would no,
diminish a sone tt hich was not more than equivalent to
the pertinse for which it was intended.
Lord SANDON hoped that the House would not take
a lesson of eiincilia•ion from the Hon. and Learned Mem
ber fair Dublin.—(Hear, hear.) He had never seen Of
beard of a single act of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
Width teni;ed to lead to that conclusion.—(Hear, hear.
hear.) He hoped that they would not embarrass the
question by raking up the recriminating matters of former
yi ars, but would join in endeavouiing to abolish slaver}
in the s ifeat manner possible ; and that they would
re illy endeavour to conciliate the West India Legit;
latures, and not merely speak about reconcili ition,
like the Honourable Member for Dublin, who had it
always nn his tongue, hut never followed it.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL had never supported, but the Noble
Lord bad, the foulest bribery and corruption.—(Order.)
If he had, the Noble Lord might indeed reproach hint,
but it was not likely that he should. If the Noble Lord
had been able to have his tray, the foul corruption of that
ancient borough he represented would have been pre-
served.—(oli, oh! laughter, and cries of " Order.") Let
the Noble Lord take his conciliation out of that. (Oh, oh!)
The Committee were ready enough to call him to order;
why did they not call the Noble Lord to order, when the
Noble Lord was as-ailing the whole of his political life ;
and why did the Committee e.,11 him to order, when he
referred only to one small chapter in the Noble Lord's
political history„—(Order ! Oh, oh !) H. would say,
by way of parenthesis, that when the Noble Lord had
done as much for his ceuntry as he (Mr. 0 C.) had done
for his—(Oh ! and laughter drowned the conclusion of
the Hon. Member's sentence.) He would then turn to
the Hon. Member for Carlisle, and lie did so the more
readily, as that Hon. Member was a Radical brother of
long standing. And when that Hon. Member told the
House that the negrnee hail some of them saved 200/., and
that they dial not care for the whip, he could tell the Hon.
Member that there was nut one peasant in Ireland who,
for his 2001., would forego his privilege of looking the
man in the face—be he who be might—who raised his
band ag iinst him.—(Cheers.) He had heard the Hon.
Alember's doctrine; and he must say, that lie repudiated
it with the utmost respect.—(Laughter.) They were
asked to give away their money, without being assured of
receiving any value for it. They were told to pay and
confide. That was not the English method of doing
business, and he was against voting the money till they
bad value for it.
Lord SANDON did not complain of the observations
of the Him. and Learnel Gentleman, as he had made •an

attack upon the lion. and Learned Gentleman ; but he

wished to remind the Committee that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had before been attacking all the
persons connected with the West Indies, and he, there-
fore, was not the person to cast the first stone.—( Hear,

hear.) He was convinced that the inquiries into the
borough of Liverpool had substantirted all that he bad
ever contended for. He had never denied that there had
been, in former times, corruption in Liverpool, but he had
contended that the three last elections were as pure as
those of any other borough.—(ob, oh ! and calls of
4' Question.")
S cretary STANLEY wished to call the attention
of the Committee to the question under discussion ; for the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, who had been
absent from the House in the early part of the debate,
and had since made two or three speeches, had not, with
the exception of repeating very often the words twenty
millions, said one word which bore upon the question then
under discussion. Tire lion. and Learned Member had
gone into all sorts of collateral topics which were likely
to create irritation in the West India body. He had
adorned them with that eloquence which he could so
well employ, but on the question before the Committee
the Hon. Member had not said one word. He put it to
the House to recollect, that by their resolutions which had
gone out to the West Indies, they were pledged, if to any
tiring, to pay the 20 millions. If there were one thing fixed
it was that; if there were one thing indefinite it was the term
ofappienticeship. They Lad altered the term of apprentice-
ship by one half i❑ favour of those who thought like his lion.
and Learned Friend (Dr. Lushington), and how cou'd
they, therefore, now turn round and refuse the twenty
millions? They had bound themselves by a majority of
2 to 1 to adopt the resolutions, and he called upon them,
as they valued their consistency, to fulfil their promises.
Would they now try, by a side wind, to diminish that
sum by one-half by postponing the payment ? He consi-
dered the amendment to he of that nature that tfey could
not, as men of honour, agree to it, and it would be so im-
portant in its effects that the Government could not adopt
it. If the House, therefore, adopted it, they would cer-
tainly enoanger the Bill, unless the Hon. Member for
Weymouth was prepared to take it out of the Minister's
hand—(ob, oh)—and carry it forward to a successful
termination. That course the Government and the lion.
mher would be bound to follow. He had witnessed
with touch satisfaction the gradual disappearance of
obstacles and difficulties; he had a hope that he should
conduct the Bill to a successful termination, and he
entreated the Committee to consider well before they
adopted a decision which would reverse a decision already
sanctioned by a majority of 2 to 1.
The Committee the❑ divided on the amendment—

Ayes
Noes
Majority
The clause was then agreed to. The clauses to 56 also
were agreed to.
On clause 56 being read,
FOWELL BUXTON observed, that this related
to a subj-ct in which he was much interested—religious
toleration. If it were the intention of the Government
now to carry that forward, he should have some objection
to it; but he would suggest that the clause should be
postponed, when he would propose an amendment, to
which the Right Hon. Gentleman, he hoped, would assent.
Mr. Secretary STANLEY approved of the suggestion
of the Hon. Member. It was the wish of the Govern-
ment, in drawing up the Bill, not to impose any restric-
tions upon the Dissenters; and if the Hon. Member could
nr,,ke any suggestion which would effectually carry that
intention into effect, he should have no objection. Per-
haps the Hon. Member would bring up his clause on the
report.
Clauses 57 and 58 agreed to.

Mr. FOWELL BUXTON then moved that a new
clause be inserted to the following effect :—"Provided
always, that whenever any doubt may occur as to the
3:m-fining of any clause of this Act, it may be interpreted
i❑ the manner most favourable to the oppressed negroes."
He said that this was the law in the Spanish colonies.
Mr. STANLEY hoped that the Hon. Member would
withdraw his motion for the present, as he was not ready
to give an opinion upon it. He hid some doubts as to the
propriety of the proposition, but he would rather that
the Hon. Member would cons-nt to withdraw it, than
tba- he should be obliged to negative it.
Mr. BUXTON then withdrew the clanse.

Mr. WILK S moved, that the is ords of the resolutions
be in-etted in the Bill, which t'eclated that means should
be taken for the promotion of the moral and religious
eelucation of the negro,s. He al.o moved that an addi-
tion be made to clause 56, for the purposeof protecting all
other places of worship, as well as those of the Established
Church ; also that the negroes should not be obliged to
work on Sunday during the period of their apprenticeship;
and that his Majesty be empowered to advance a sum for
the purpose of educating those who were emancipated.
Mr. STANLEY said that the subject of education was
one far too important to tack in this manner to a Bill
which was avowedly intended for another purpose. He
thought it would be much better for the Hun. Member to
rest satisfi.d with the resolution of the House, as he could
assure him that the subject of education in the colonies
was one which the Government was not disposed to
neglect ; and that they meant to bring forward such a
Plan as would be thought most likely to benefit the
colonies. He thought
that the clause regarding the com-
pulsory labours of the negroes was unnecessary, because,
though the negroes would be apprentices, they would be
to all other intents and purposes freemen. He thought
that the Hon. Member would do better to withdraw his
clauses for the present, as had been done by the Hon.
Member for Weymouth.
Mr. WILKS then withdrew his clauses.
Mr. O'CONNELL proposed that in the preamble the
words " service of" be substituted for the words " right
of ;"upon which the House divided, when there appeared—
For the clause as it originally stood lO3
For Mr. O'Connell's amendment
Majority —Bl
Mr. WILKS then moved that an addition be made to

the preamble, to the effect—" That means be provided for
the relijous and moral education of Eersuns thus manu-
mitted till the age of 17."

Mr. STANLEY said, if the clauses the Hon. Member
had withdrawn should he carded when submitted to the
Rouse, it would then be quite competent to make this
addition to the preamble; but the mere addition of these
words did not give any security that the clause should be
carried. He hoped the Hon. Member would withdraw his
motion.

The preamble was then agreed to.
The House then resumed. The Chairman brought up
the report of the Bill as amended, and the report was or-
dered to be Liken into further consideration on Friday next.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.

On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, the
report of the Imprisonment for Debt Bill was agreed to,
and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Friday.
PRIVY COUNCIL BILL.

The Privy Council Bill went through a Committee, in
which it received several amendments. The report was
.irdeled to be received on Friday.
SUGAR REFINING BILL.
The Sugar Refining Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to he committed on Friday.

CUSTOMS' CONSOLIDATION BILL, REGISTRY
OF VESSELS BILL, &e.

Mr. P. THOMSON iirouAt up the reports of the Cus-
toms' Consolidation Bill, the Registry of Vessels Bill, &c.,
which were agreed to, and the Bills ordered to be read a
third time on Wednesday.
Mr. P. THOMSON moved that the London Scarage
Bill be committed, on which some discussion occurred, and
Mr. P. HOWARD moved that the House be counted.
As only thirty-six Members were present, the House
adjourned at half-past one.