The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-08 00:00:00

navy, and it was not necessary to have the opinion of a naval
officer exclusively on that subject. Now, it so happened,
that that very morning he took down the number of questions
which came for discussion before the board, and only referring
exclusively to naval matters. There was the qucstdon of pro-
viding stores, of buying different articles, of vict ualling, of
medical necessaries, and so on. So that as he had said, nine-
tenths of the business was exclusively of a civil nature, and
on which a civilian was quite as well qualified to give an
opinion as any naval officer. Of the six lords composing the
board, four were naval men; the first lord was a civilian, but
On no occasion, or on any subject which affected the naval ser-
vice, did he take any step, without consulting his naval col-
leagues. With regard to promotion, it was regulated by
seniority and selection—and in his opinion it was by selection
alone that they could get the ablest men to command their
ships and promote the efficiency of the service, With re-
spect to himself, in making promotions he was regulated by no
private or personal motive whatever ; and so many applica-
tions were made, that in making one selection he ran the risk
of, probably, offending 900. But, if he discharged his duty
to the best of his judgment, as he knew and believed he had,
be bad the satisfaction of knowing that he was guided in every
act by the most conscientious motives. That the affairs of
the navy had been well administered, he might appal), to the
navy itself; at no time, nor during any former war, were
ships, officers, and men in a state of more complete and
thorough efficiency, and ho was perfectly sure, notwithstand-
ing all that had been said to the contrary, that that was the
opinion of the country at large. (Hear, hear.)
Captain BOLDER() would support the motion for the ap-
pcintme at of a select committee, though he did not agree with
the hon. and gallant officer who brought it forward, in regard
to manu:n; the navy. He believed the navy at present was
better mac ne I, better paid, and better fed, than at any former
period in their naval annals, They were now better paid than
in the mercantile marine, and, therefore, in that respect the
greatest credit was due to the Admiralty. He approved, how-
ever, of the motion for a committee of inquiry, because if the
system be good it would redound to the credit of the Admi-
ralty, if not, it ought to be corrected, The commission to
which the right hon. gentleman referred bad made many re-
commendations, and all of them were carried into effect with
respect to the army, but nothing was done regarding the

medical department of the navy. That was one of the reasons
why he should support the present motion. Everything had •
a beginning, for now the Admiralty had not only increased
the pay of medical officers in the navy, but directed they
should have cabins, so that by a little perseverance they would
obtain more. Their pay at present gradually increased up to
tau years, but from ten to twenty they re eived no increase
at all. Now that was not right or proper. They ware highly
educated men, and entered the service to gain rewards and
honours. To retain them in the service ought to be the first
object of the Admiralty ; but by the present system they
were excluded from receiving additional pay after serving ten
years. Then let them look at the question of rank, as be-
tween those in the army and navy. An inspector of hos-
pitals in the army ranked as a brigadier-general, while a naval
inspector of the same class only took rank as a lieutenant.
colonel. Now that was a distinction which he contended
ought not to be made. Then again he found the other day
that iu couferring decorations on those who had distinguished
themselves in the Crimea, Dr. Hall, as Inspector-General,
was male a K.C.8., while another doctor, who held the same
rank iu the navy, was only created a C.B. In the army the
Inspector of Hospitals was made a K.C.8., as he had said ;
five hospital surgeons were advanced to the rank of C. 8., yet
only one medical officer was simi'arly honoured in the naval
department, although in all the great actions iu the Crimea
the naval medical department had rendered, in those bloody
fields, the most important services. (Hear.) He thought
the appointment of a comniittee would be productive of great
good, and he should, therefore, support the motion.
Admiral BERKELEY said, the hon. and gallant member
for Bath had picked out, from a list of 300 names, some dozen
persons belonging to the aristocracy, whose promotion, he
said, had been gained by interest and favour, and not by
merit. It was not pleasant to speak of one's self, but he would
ask the hon. member for Bath to look at his (Admiral Ber-
keley's) services, and see if he had not won his promotion by
those services. So far from his having any interest iu those
days, his father was a staunch opponent of the Admiralty by
whom he was promoted, and his father never asked a
favour in his life. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman had also al-
luded to a friend of his, the Hon. Richard Dundas, who com-
manded the fleet in the Baltic last year, and was pleased to
point him aut as one who had gained his present station
thrcugh interest, and not through his own merit. Now, he
most positively asserted, and he could appeal to the right hon.
baronet the member for Carlisle for confirmation of the state-
ment, that no one evenasked for the appointment. He was
the person who recommended the Hoe. R. Dundas to the
right hon. baronet (Sir James Graham). The right hon. baro-
net took great pains to trace the career of the gallant admi-
ral. He obtained the opinions of men of high rank, among
others that of Sir William Parker, as to his fitness for the ap-
pointment, and Admiral Duudas, in consequence of character
and not from interest, was appointed to the command of that
fleet. (Hear.) He wished to say only one word with regard to
the manning of the navy. He regretted that naval officers
should stir in that matter. They ought to know they were
treading on very delicate ground with British sailors. The
fleet had been manned without bounty, and supposing bounty
had been offered, without embargo, it would have been of no
use whatever. In the last war, when recourse was had to
bounty and press, an embargo was laid on merchant ships
riot to go to sea until the men of war were manned. The
effect was greatly to embarrass trade. No such plan had
been resorted to during the present war, and he was happy
to say the fleet, at the present moment, wits thoroughly
manned. When it was remembered that in two years we bad
increased the number of men for the navy by 24,000, he
thought little fault could be found that bounty bad not been
given, and the mercantile marine thereby distressed. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. and' gallant officer had quoted some words
which he had used on a former occasion when a &miler mo-
tion was before the house. Sitting on the Treasury Bench he
was just as anxious for his profession as when he was an iacle
pendent member. Tnere was a time when, like most naval
officers, lie thought tke Secretary of the Admiralty ought to
be a naval man, but lie could only say, with 12 years' expe-
rience of the working of the Admiralty, he had completely
changed his opinion. Without wishing to disparage the two
naval officers who in that period had filled the office,,he must
say he never wished to see a naval man as Secretary to the
Admiralty again. Gentlemen talked of, but hardly knew
what were. the duties of tue Secretary to the Admiralty.
There was nothing naval in them, and if they knew the con-
stitution and working of the board, they world perhaps
change their opinion, as he had done. In conclusion the gal-
lant admiral said he had risen to make these few remarks be-
cause lie was convinced his gallant friend would not wish to
say anything to annoy Admiral Dundas, and would not again
assert that he (Admiral Berkeley) had been pushed forward
through interest, and interest alone. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LINDSAY said that after the remarks of the gallant
admiral, and of the hon. hart. the member for Carlisle, the
house might think the present system of the Admiralty was
perfect. Ile, however, differed from that opinion, and thought
that on the contrary strong grounds had been shownin favour of
the motion. It had been proved that when they had peace, as
_ _

he hoped they soon should have, they would have more men on
the active list, than they could employ, thus creating general
disappointment and general discontent among the officers
thus placed in inactivity. Look at the list as it stood now.

n July last they had 2,225 officers, from flag officers down to

lieutenants, and of those only 1,232 were employed, and that
in a, time of war. Such a fact as that alone would justify this
inquiry. But he had also looked at the cost, and he found the
country was paying for 993 officers on theactive list, but who
were necessarily inactive, a total of 186,000/., and to those on
the retired lists total of 298,2721. , making a total sum paid in
time of war, to active officers anxious for employment, and dis-
contented, audjustly so, at not receiving it, and to those on the
retired and half-pay list, of 488,358/. He considered, therefore,
that this was an important subject and worthy of inquiry. At
the close of the last war—and what then took place ought to
act as a warning against the close of this war—in 1817,
the total number of seamen and marines voted for the year
was only 19,000, and yet the number of active officers, from
flag officers down to lieutenants, was 5,891. The result na-
turally was the greatest discontent, and to show how far that
discontent went, he would remind the house of the anecdote
of the naval officer, who, after hanging about the Admiralty,
without getting any employment, went its his gold-laced
uniform and swept the crossing in front ;of Whitehall. Of
course, he very soon got an appointment. The right hon.
member had denied that promotion went by influence, and
'had spoken of cases being picked out. To avoid that charge,
he (Mr. Lindsay) would take a single case, that of the nine
admirals who in 1842 waited on her Majesty when she visited
Portsmouth, and he found that the united services of those
admirals, from the time they left the midshipman's berth to
their post rank, when they were considered lit to command
a frigate, was just 2.1 years, while, if he went to the flag-
ship at Portsmouth, in the year pr,ceding the Britannia, he
found four lieutenants, whose joint period of service was 56
years, and on board the Victory he found seven lieutenants,
whose joint service was 131 years. Be was surprised that the
Government would resist an inquiry into discrepancies like
these, and, therefore, he trusted the house would grant the
very reasonable motion before it.
Mr. BASS supported the motion, believing that promotion

the navy was given, not to merit, but to interest. He re-

membered hearing a conversation in the precincts of the
house, after a celebrated dinner at the Reform Club, at which
the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham) was present, and on
that occasion some distinguished member of that house said,
" Now it is all out. We always thought promotion in the
navy was given only to Whigs and Radicals, and now Sir
James Graham has confessed it." (Laughter.) If such a be-
lief prevailed in that house—he did not mean to say it was
well founded—at all events they should inquire whether it.
was true or not. He could not conceive that there could be
any substantial objection to the motion of the gallant Admi-
ral. He should therefore support the motion.
Sir F. BARING said it was a difficult thing to get appoint-
ments in the navy, and lie bad found that in experience as
First Lord. His practice was to caxry out Lord Auckland's
list, the prior First Lord, but he could not avoid making
selections ; for Lord Auckland was in the habit of writing very
his
owng o too
kind letters, which did not amount to positive promises.
(Laughter.) He made alterations in favour of old and meri-
torious officers. Be must say
general accu-
sations, as a First Lord, he thought that of all parsons
the First Lords had the least justice done them. For himself, o
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his own motion upon the operations of the Baltic feet that
night, but it was then too late. When, however, he found
the First Lords of the Admiralty get up, one after the
other, in praise of themselves and their own doings,
_ .

he could not resist giving the house some idea of his own:exi

perier.ce on that subject. He was no little surprised to find
the First Lord of the Admiralty quote a letter of his (Sir C.
Napier's) own ; but that-letter was written thirty years ago,
and was not applicable to the)wesent time. His letter was
written thirty years ago, when the navy was in very bad order.
But this was taken from " Junius." When they saw bad
ships built, add promotions made from political influence,
things were 'bad indeed. He had not been able to find the
passage, butte would search for it. • The right hon. baronet
the First, I;ord of the Admiralty (Sir C. Wood) said, that of
the promotions made by First Lords one appointment in
three was given to old and meritorious officers. He had
thought such au assertion perfectly absurd, for he knew the
First Lords used to give the appointment to whom they
pleased ; but if it was true that the system was changed, he
begged leave to congratulate the right hon. baronet and the
house upon it. But if he meant to say that be never made
Th thing rela-
e
right hon.
any promotions without consulting the . Naval Lords, he
should have thought that monstrous ; but if that, too, wastrue,
true, he was delighted to hear it, and hoped they would stick
to it. It would do more justice to the service than anything
teir e else
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bart. (Sir C. Wood) said it was very ticklish ground
,to touch
upon, and, for that reason, he (Sir C. Napier) thought it
ought to be settled at once. The right hon. bart. said be had
formerly brought forward a bill providing that double bounty
should be paid to seamen, but he bad pointed out the folly
and danger of that bill, for the men who were in the -service
at the time would receive a bounty of 4,0001. or 5,000/. a
year, whereas the object that Conld be kept in view was
that a bounty was useless, unless their position was
changed into one of actual warfare. He (Sir Charles
Napier) was opposed to that bill; and what was the
result ? NVhy, that they could not issue a proclamation with-
out everyman receiving bounty, which would cost half a mil-
lion of money; and the consequence was, that no itlau re-
ceived apythii With regard to the Baltic ace% he bad told