The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-28 00:00:00

state that the tithe question was agitated in Kilkenny
merely to foster the question of the repeal of the Union.
Mr. FINN had the honour to be one “f the agitators
of whom the Hon. Member so utterly complained, anti
had taken part in almost all their proceedings in Irelan
The Hon. and Gallant Member opposite spoke of the state
of the county of Ki kenny, and stated that at ono time he
would preter beirg benighted 'bete thin ie sonle
pa to of
Engi intl. He would show CO the Hon. and Gallon, Mem-
ber and to the House, that the situation of that county was
not worse subsequent to the election to which he alluded,
than it was previously. Ha hel I in his hand a documentwhich
showed that the number of cr,minala charged with crimes in
the county of Kilkenny in 1827 was 274 ; in 1828, 224 ;
in 1829, 174 ; in 1830, 171 ; and in 1831. 175.
Thus, after the election, which was said to br the cause of
so many outrages, the number of criminals charged wa•
I ss than during the time the Ga lent Officer could lose
his way, or allow himself to he benighted with such com-
fort iind safety. lie had one observation to m ike on
another stivernent by the Honourable and Gallant Captain,
that the tithe question was aeitated in order to direct at-
tention to the repeal of the Union, and at the instigation
of the advocates of that tueasu e. Ile was confident
Chit the Hon. and Gallant Member was mistaken.
He asked, was the agitation of the repeal, or the partial
disturbances which took place in Ireland, a sufficient reason
for the introduction of their Gagging Bill, their Bill fir
the changing- of the venue, or rainy other measures which
were adopted ? When arson was as prevalent in Enchant!,
two years ago, did the Ministers dare to talk of the suspen-
sion of the Habeas Corpus Act ? No. The first man
who dared to propose such a measure, would certainty
lose his head upon a scaffold. Toe Hon. and Gallant
Officer had accused the agitators of encouraging tithe
meetings in Kilkenny', but so fur was that from being the
case, that they did all in their power to suppress them.
The tithe meetings in Kilkenny commenced in some arbi-
trary measures adopted by a clergyman, named Doyle,
who, with the Rev. Mr. Macdonnell, issued distresses
against the tenants for tithes to a greater amount than
they paid of rent. The people resisted, and the military
were called in to the assist once of the parsons. It was in
consequence of this that the tithe meetings commenced.
Mr. STANLEY, though he rose to address the House
with the deepest fielings of regret and anxiety, yet had
never been impressed with a more confident expectation
of convincing the House of the indispensable necessity of
what he advocated. Hon. Members bad considered the
measures as impolitic and uncalled for; but he would ap
peal to the general sense of the House, whether it could
be, that the Ministry was composed of persons likely, on
slight or trivial grounds, to interfere with the liberty of
the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He would nit appeal to their
past acts, to what they had effected, to the great extension
of public rights which they had succeeded in obtaining,
after so long and arduous a struggle; he would appeal to
their conduct in respect to Ireland. Month after month,
week after week, day after day, had they been importuned
from all quarters to adopt measures which should go beyond
the ordinary powers of the law—measures which had
been unceasingly represented to them as indispensably re-
quisite. Still they had not complied—the counties of
Clare, Galway, and Queen's County, had been in a
state of the most dreadful disorganization, but still
time Ministry were averse to haying recourse to arbitrary
tneasures...--they had tried what the exertion of the
fullest powers of the ordinary course of law would do—
they had succeeded ; he felt himself bound to add, that
this success in the county of Clare especially was greatly
owing to the co-operation of the gentlemen of the county,
who had exerted all their influence and power in every
possible way—they bad put themselves at the head of the
defenders of the peace, and met the attempts at intimida-
tion by serving as jurors, &c., when the lower classes
dared mot come forward in consequence of those very
threats, which had been met with such resolution and con.
tempt at the hands of the gentlemen of the county. In
particularizing the county of Clare, as one in which the
restoration of peace had been greatly attributable to the
upper eLsses of gentry, he did nut mean to say that the
same classes in Galway had been altogether backward in
lending their co-operation for similar purposes. On the
contrary, many of them had exhibited the most praise.
worthy zeal. But he was imperatively called upon to state,
that in the Queen's C .unty, which had been th.- most dis-
organized, they bad met with the least success, and the
Last assistance on the part of the gentlemen of the county.
In Kilkenny, which bad been in the worst state of all,
there had been no convictions—(Hear)—and he was bound
to state that this county was now in a still worse state
than ever.—( Hear, bear.) He moist state his consul, ntioue
feeling that the gentlemen of the county had nut done
their duty ; in aa)ing which he did not mean to cast
pesonal reflections on any gentlemen. In the present
unhappy state of Ireland, the Min stirs had the fullest
reasons for not stopping in their proem dings ; ami
he would say, that whatever might be the future consequences.
the ulterior results of the precedent which ...ight be established
by thus going beyond the ordinary powers of the law, it was a
course absolutely imperative upon the House to permit, if they
wished to restore peace to that distracted country.—(Hear.)
It should be understood, however, that the powers must be
limited—(Hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—but the powers, though
unlimited, would be placed in the hands of responsible persons,
by the free representatives of a free people. It would be found
perfectly impossible to limit the operation of these extended
powers to any single district, when it was notorious that a great
portion of the outrages to be remedied were committed by
bands of strangers parading the country.—(Hear.) It would,
consequently, be a matter perfectly impossible to restrict the
limits of the powers, or that of the Lord Lieutenant. The
Insurrection Act he considered would prove a blessing to the
country, if, indeed, it were not too late; if the disorganiza.
Lion hail not got to too great a height to be overcome by any.
thing but martial law. He would now proceed to read the
papers.—( " No, no, don't read.") He merely wished to show
that there existed every species of outrage and disorganization,
wholy subversive of all order and peace; and the House would
then be able to decide on his case. The first letter contained
an account of the dreadful murder of a gentleman's steward,
in Kilkenny, for no other reason than recovering his mass
ter's rent. The next letter, dated Nov. 19, 1832, was from Kil-
kenny, and contained a description of the "horrible excite-
ment produced throughout the county by the domination of the
Whitefect," and giving accounts of several appalling and un-
provoked outrages committed by them ; the principal assigned
cause being, the " not keeping their arms for their honours'
night visits " The letter concluded by stating, that in all
Kilkenny there could not be found a Jury to try, or witnesses
to give evidence against, any of the perpetrators.—(Hear, hear.)
Another letter from Louth gave an account of disturbances
prevalent there of a similar dreadful character, and stating si.
milar fear on the part of the inhabitants to give evidence. The
only protection f,r the poor was going to America, when they
could find the means. The Magistrates had found the ordinary
powers of the law totally inetlicient.—(Hear.) They had
called upon the landholders to act as special constables ; but all
from fear or other motives had refused.—(Hear, hear.) The
last letter proceeded to state, that if a Magistrate arrested an
offender, and kept him in prison till he paid a certain fine, the
whole of the gang proceeded to levy the money, per force,
from the neighbouring inhabitants. Another letter from
Westmeath after enumerating no less than twenty four out-
rages committed in the immediate neighbotnnood of the
writer, adds, that innumerable instances of violence are oc-
curring daily, but that the system of intimidation was such,
that the sufferers did not dare to give information against the
offenders, who thereby escaped. The outrages were committed
so openly, in the day-time, and so systematically, as to
leave no doubt that the perpetrators were conscious of
strength, had plenty Jt- arms, and determined to use
them. The letter proceeded to show that the chance
of recovering arms from these predatory hands was
very slight ; each expedition was headed by a Captain, a man
who had signalized himself by the commission of some atro.
cious offence, and who had been long connected with them, so
that there would belittle chance of his becoming informer. This
man alone was acquainted with the place in which arms were
hid, it being intrusted to him to conceal them. The Hon.
Gentleman who spoke last had attributed the greatest part of
the outrages to the resistance to the enforcement of tithe by
Government. He (Mr. S.) would read a letter from the Attor-
ney-General, whose duty it was to read over the informations
previous to the Assizes, and he stated that the cases in the
Home Circuit only more than exceeded the whole number of
cases throughout the country two years ago ; and that the
nature of the cases showed a dreadful increase of demoralization
in the country. It stated, that out of 1.50 cases, he did not find
one connected with tithe--(Hear)—nor in which the suf-
ferer had been a man of property ; time only people attacked
were poor farmers, labourers, women, and other defenceless
persons. The blood would run cold to hear the details of
these outrages. If this were the liberty for which the Honour-
able Gentleman contended—(Hear, hear)—which the Go-
vernment was charged with a desire to overthrow—if it meant
that its advocates were to do what they chose, and murder those
who thought differently, then the Ministers must plead guilty
of a desire to repress such liberty ; but if by liberty be meant

•
the protection of the well_disposed, call the Bill what you
will, despotic or arbitrary, he must contend that it was
calculated for the promotion of liberty, in its truest charac.
ter. The House were talked to about the Insurrection Act.
Why, the Insurrection Act was already in force, in parts of
Ireland. It was complained that people would be shut up
in their houses after nightfall. Why, so they were now—but
it was under the authority of an irresponsible body of the
W (Hear, hear, hear)—and with this additional griev-
anChei,tetfheeatt—under these nocturnal legislations no man could
leave his house, after nightfall without endangering his own
life and property, and that of his family.—(Hear, hear.) His
Noble Friend had stated the circumstances of several outrages
which had horrified the House. He (Mr. Stanley) would not
go through any more of such dreadful details, except some
connected with the appalling murder of Mr. Hooson. The
reverend deceased had been shot in the open day at about a
hundred yards from his own house—he was a man of the most
benevolent heart, and had been guilty of no crime but that of
collecting that tithe which was his sole support—he was
nearly eighty years of age.--(Hear, hear, hear.) This Rev.