The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-07 00:00:00

decd bewas confident, that he should he able to propose to
t he House a measure which should at once be safe and satis-
factory.

RESUMED DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS.

The Order of the Day was then read for the resumption
of the debate on the address.

The SPEAKER read the address, and the amendment
proposed by Mr. O'Connell.
Mr. E. L. BULWER said he rose under feelings of
some embarrassment, to express his opinions on certain
parts of the proposed address to his Majesty. He did not
entirely agree with the motion of the Learned Member for
Dublin-at tnotion for a Committee on the whole speech
old Wdt 'Sufficiently mark the difference between one parr
sr that speech and another ; at the same time, he could
not persuade himself to give unqualified approbation to the
address moved by the Noble Lord; there might be points
relating to the affairs of this country, which, he agreed
with the Hon. Member for Knaresborougli, who spoke
last night, in thinking it would have been desirable to
have alluded to in the speech from the Crown, such
as the condition of the operative classes, and he must
add, the long-delayed revision of the poor law:: ; hut
he knew that the questions that were alluded to, such as the
Church Reform, and the Charters of the Bank and the East
India Company, pressed for immediate attention, and if
adjusted to the satisfaction of the country, they would be
no ordinary benefit to reap in one session. He was
c intented, therefore, with those parts of his Majesty's
speech which related to England. As to foreign affairs,
he concurred cheerfully in the correspondent parts of the
a ldress. But when he came to that part of the address
which related to Ireland, he felt all his satisfaction coun-
terbalanced by surprise and regret. In that part of his
Majesty's speech, he thought he heard the same ominous
voice which, in Lancashire, declared that Reform should
be final in England, now declaring that abuse should be
permanent in Ireland. What says the speech ? Mark
the distinction ; that in England " the public peace has
Iwo preserved—that in Ireland the spirit of insubordina-
kion and violence has arisen to a fearful height." But
why is there this eliterence ? Why is there good order in
England, Where, two yews ago, half the agricultural po-
pulation was in arms ? Because in England you have go-
verned by conciliation and firmness. And why is there
insubordination in Ireland ? Because in Ireland you have
governed 'oy menaces and weakness. And how are you
g^i.7.4 to remedy this insubordination ? By a repetition
of the same causes—by a continuance of the same me-
States and the same weakness. Sir, when the Right lion.
Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, attempted to turn
aside the effect of the Member for Dublin's illustration
from history, by asking whether he meant to saddle the
uffeaces of Henry the Eighth upon the present Govern-
ment, he perverted the obvious meaning of that Ho-
nourable Member ; what he meant was this—to prove
that this policy of extraordinary powers and addi-
tional coercion was nothing new—to prove that it had been
tried for centuries, and fund wanting—to prove that it
had, against its feasibility, the experience of 700 years.
And, why is it that these extraordinary powers have not
been practicable ? and why is it that, with so much vio-
lence, the laws have such little strength? lat the Right
Ilion. Secretary ask the Hon. Member for Leeds. He
tell him, as be told some Member in the last Perna-
'talent, why we could not put down the Birmingham Union,
and why we could not put down the people themselves.
" Because (he said) you cannot govern a gallant nation
by the laws of the quarter sessions; because it is in vain,
though you have law on your side, if you have the people
against you ; because there is only one power that makes
the law strong, and that is, the consent—the public
opinion, of the people for whom the law is made." And
is this the power fur which the Right Hon. Secretary
would apply? That would be indeed an extraordinary
power for Ireland. No, he does not ask you for the
power to propitiate opinion, but still more to revolt it.
Sir, the Right Hon. Secretary confesses that he has al-
ready laws sufficient to put down insurrectionary meet-
ings of every description. What more does he require?
He requires a law which shall make those laws suffice.
And does not the Right Hon. Gentleman know that no
law of itself will make law suffice ?—that to make law of
fee tual there is but one mode ; and that is, to make the people,
and not the police, co-operate cheerfully to .carry it into
effect ? This is a principle that all Statesmen, from the oldest
times, have laid down. It was on this principle that a Noble
Lord in his Majesty's Government is presumed to have
said, that in order to put down sedition, ynu must do—
what? Put down the grievance ! Why is this principle
-applicable to England, and not applicable also to Ireland ?
It was on this principle, too, that the Hon. Member for
Leeds, whom I have already quoted, whom I shall quote
again more literally, made use of these words on the third
reading of the English, Reform Bill :—" That discontent
which the great body of the people think they have rea-
son to entertain cannot be put down by penal restrictions.
Measures of coercion and severity have failed former Go..
oasersoents—they failed Cromwell—they failed James 11.
si-gainst the Bishops, and Pitt against Horne Tooke—they
'failed Lord Castlereagh—and they will fail every Govern-
ment which shall attempt to smother the voice of the
people of England without redressing their grievances."
Sir, for England read Ireland ! Is not what is applicable
to one people applicable to another? Where there are
extraordinary grievances, the only extraordinary power you
should ask for is that of immediate redress. " Oh, but
(stays the Right Hon. Gentleman) do not expect that we
shall not redress the grievances. We intend it." But
when ? how? in what degree? to what extent? The
very words of the Right Hon. Gentleman have something
fearful in them to the ear of Ireland. fie speaks of de-
. lay ; he tells us grievances cannot be redressed in a day;
vet does he expect that crime, the result of those griev-
ances, can be extinguished in a shorter time. Sir, crime
is harder to be put down than affliction. He (Mr. B.)
believed the Irish Government, if it pursued this course of
legislation, would soon have good cause to subscribe to the
institutions alluded to by the Member for Knareshorough
—they would soon want, pretty generally, for all Ireland
the Fever Hospital, and the Lunatic Asylum for them-
selves. This House is to pledge itself, then, to most ex-
traordinary powers of coercion, and to take the Right
Hon. Gereleman's word, and to wait the Right Hon.
Gentleman's time, for ordinary powers of redress. The
Right Hon. Gentleman's word and time'; He might take
it who would have confidence in him ; but will Ireland
take it? that is the question. He feat ed nut. And why?
What is the great grievance of Ireland ?—The Church Es-
tablishment. On what subject is the Right Hon. Gentle-
man supposed, both I.y Irishmen and Englishmen, to be
most pledged ? To that very Establishment. On two
points they were all agreed, and he therefore should not
dwell on them—lst, That there were great grievances
in Ireland ; 2d, That the state of that country was
most alarming. That there are grievances, he asked no
further proof than that there was no confidence in. jus-
siee—.that we-have law .without -the co-operation of the
people, and an ecclesiastical establishment against their re-
ligion. That the state of the country is most alarming, I
ask no other proof than that terror does not produce
kespect, nor punishment diminish crime. For this last
evil—the state of the country—what are the remedies ?
The Right lion. Secretary tells us to enforce the law. by
bayonets : the Members for Ireland, with one voice, tell
us to adapt the law to the interest of the people. It is
with this last opinion that I concur. I concur with it on
the grounds-of common sense—on the plainest principles
of right legislation. Ido more—l concur with it out of
respect to the constituency of the Right Hon. Gentleman
himself. For in the last Parliament, on the question of
Reform, what was the cry of the Tories ?—Force ! And
by what cry did the Whigs answer them ?—Redress !
Could I believe my ears—have. I not heard the Right
Honourable Secretary, never 'may at a loss for words
of thoughts of Lis own, plauidaze -from some former
speech—from whom ? Why, no less a person than the
Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ! Does
not the following sentence remind us of Toryism in its
last cry ? 1 quote his words—" To
,legislate for griev-
ances in this state of things, is not to call on them to le-
gislate, hilt to crouch in submission." How often have
chose very benches thrown back this very argument
by the unanswerable reply, that the only disgrace
in legislating in the midst of disturbance, is in the
delay that allowed the disturbance to begin?—(hear.)
Sir, there is one part of our address which I dislike upon
constitutional grounds. I do not like that part which
pledges this House to support without discussion—with-
out inquiry—indissolubly to support the legislative
Union. I urn against a repeal of the Union—it would be
worse tor Ireland than England. It should be a last re-
sort—it is the resort of necessity, not reason; but lam
also against the principle of pledging a deliberative assem-
bly to reject a great and solemn question without any pre-
vious deliberation. But I will waive that objection—at
least I will not insist on it. lam against that part of the
address which relates to Ireland, fora more immediate
reason. It pledges us to support the policy of the Right
Hon. Secretary for Ireland. It is impossible for us not to
feel, that with the great station—the high character—the
commanding talents of that Right Hon. Gentleman—he.
must necessariiy exercise a preponderating influence over
the policy pursued in his own department. I object to
that policy. I object to it on the experience of two years,
during which the Right Hon. Gentleman, with all his -
ialenae-all his station—has done nothing for the peace of
Ireland, and every thing for her danger ; during which he
has offended all parties—incensed all sects—embroiled
himself with the people—and stands now opposed to ail
the people's representatives. I separate the Right Hon.