The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-17 00:00:00

FINANCE OF IRELAND.

Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the Day for
the second reading of the Irish Duties Continuation
Bin.

On the question for the second reading,Mr. FOSTER said, that the objed of the Bill
then before the House was, to continue at once
.Eleven different Ads of Parliament and Duties to
the amount of 3,000,0001. The Bill had, he said,
been brought in in such a way, that they were
completely taken taken by surprize, nor had they
time to prepare for its discussion. Money Bills in
Ireland had uniformly originated in the Commit-
tees of Supply, or Ways and Means, and became
the subjed of several discussions, but as this Bill
stofed, it contained 1500 articles of Duty, of which
it was not possible to discuss one, as not one
of them was enumerated in the Bill. He knew
that a distieEtion had been taken between a COM-
mittee of Supply, and any other Committee of the
whole House ; where the Supplies were wanted for
the service of the year, and where they were not ;
but he was of opinion, that this Bill was in a simi-
lar predicament with Supplies voted for the Service
of the year, and that it ought to have originated in
a Committee of Supply. There was no reason in
existence why it should not have thus originated ;
neither in the formation of the Consolidated Fund,
nor with resped to the Civil List, which had been
alluded to on a former occasion. The Civil List
was voted in 1793, not as a Grant of the Crown,
but rather as a restridion, preifenting it from exer-
cising certain rights ; the Civil List was, however,
charged on the Consolidated Fund, and must be con-
sidered only as an annual chase. There were se,
etal other charges which must be considered in the

same light ; amongst them was one on Account of
the Officers of the House of Lords in Ireland,- who
were now, however, provided for under the Adaq
Union. There was also a charge for the Payment
of Thasury Bills. These Bills were not made pay-
able at any particular time, but the Parliament of
Ireland being aware of the amount of them in cir-
culation, had uniforinly voted a sufficient sum to pay.
those which were outstanding ; hut the Treasury
was not authorized to pay a single Bill out of its
Funds. The question was, whether this was to be
considered as a permanent or a temporary mea-
sure ? If every article of the permanent Charge
was admit:ed, it would amount to 3,500,0001.-
11e - Revenue continued by this Bill he would
take at 3,000,0001. this added to the other re-
sources, would make a sum of 4,200,0001. ; if the
permanent charge of 3,500,000!. was set off against
this, there would remain 700,0001. which must un-
deubtedly fail within the province of the Com-
mittee of Supply. The whole Of the Revenue was,
in fad, to be applied to the service of the year,
yet this Bill was hurried through the House, so ob-
scured, as not to be known.- There was another
objet of this Bill, which was, to continue Money
Bills that passed previous to the Union, whilst the
Ad of Union had altered all those Duties. This
Bill continued above Soo Duties on the Manufac-
tures of Irelood, all of which were concluded by
the Aft of Union ;
_coo Duties which were im-
posed when Ireland was considered as a foreign
country, and which tie At of Union had therefote
abolished. If this was the case, is was impossible
that the manufaelurers of Ireland could go on with
confidence or security. There was a clause he ob.
served in the present Bill, by which it might be al-
tered during the present Session, yet it appeared
that the duties were to be continuod for nine
months-, he could not approve of this mode, as it
went to place the IVlanufadurers of Ireland in a state
of the greatest uncertainty, they not knowing in
consequence how they were to regulate their con-
dud, or to what they were to trust. Amongst
the Duties to be continued by this Bill was the
6 per Cent Duty, for the 'repeal of which the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Co R R Y ) had himself present.
ed a Petition, and which it was understood was
adually to be repealed. What kind of Legislation
was this--avowing at the time of enading a Tax,
an intention of repealing it ? The House was
called upon to direct its attention to the state of
Ireland, and upon what documents ? How many
Papers relative to that Country had been printed
since the Union ? One, and one only, which pur.
ported to be an Account of a year's Revenue, and
the transactions of a whole year with the requisite
vouchers, and when these vouchers were examined,
they were found to he only for nine months, He
did not know to what this contradidion was to be
asctibed, unless it was to the propensity imputed
to Irishmen of making. bulls. He was of opinion
that the subject demanded an attentive and minute
examination, and he thought it necessary to state
to the House the situation of • Ireland, that it
might be fairly appreciated. Last year the ba-
lance of trade was against Ireland to the amount
of 2,000,0001. whilst in the year 1786 it was
',Sot:wool. in her favour, and since that year,
there was a difference, taking the Exports and
Imports together, of 2,700,0001. against her, out
of a trade, which in the whole amounted only to
12,000,0001. The Shipping of Ireland had mate-
rially decreased. Her Debt, which in 1793, was
only 2,300,0001. was increased, in 1800, to
36,000,0001, whilst the Debt of Great Britain was
not even doubled within the same period. Such a
situation required, it must surely be acknowledged,
every, care on the part of Parliament, and every de-
gree of skill on the part of His Majesty's '',.aliniaters.
The course of Exchange had also been against Ire-
land for four years preceding ; and for four or five
years past, she had been in the habit of borrowing
money from Great Britain. This situation was
rendered still worse by the increase of Absentees,
who drew from the Country immense sums. Upon
the whole,lreland was drained of at least '5,000,0001.
a_year, whilst nothing went into it. This seemed
a paradox, which he had never been able to solve,
nor could he conceive how the Country could sustain
such a continual drain, without receiving any thing
in return. If this brief notice of the situation of
Ireland, should serve to rouse the attention of the
House, there was no assistance which it was in his
power to give relative to the subject, wiiich he
would not chearfully afford, incase the House chose
to proceed to the investigation. He did not wish
to oppose the continuation of the Duties alluded to
in the Bill, for a short period, as the money might
be immediately wanted; but he objected to this Bill,
understanding it was to be continued for nice
months, because it prevented them from doing any
thing relative to the-subjed during the present Ses-
sion. Why could not this Bill be voted in the same
manner as the Supplies for England, for two months,
the subject might then be taken up, and the State of
Ireland discussed : let a new book of Rates be form-
ed for that Country, and all the old and obsolete
Duties struck out. He was decidedly of opinion,
that the Bill ought to he continued for two months
only, instead of nine months, for which period it
was now proposed to continue it.
Mr. CORRY said, he should trouble the House
as shortly as possible in reply to what had fallen
from the Right Honourable Gentleman who had
just sat down. If the House had not been
aware of the subject in discussion, it would have
scarcely been possible to know to what part of the
United Kingdom his observations applied.—The
Right Honourable Gentleman stated, that he
(Mr. Cokay) had drawn such a melancholy picture
of the situation of Ireland, that it ought to call the
attention of the House in a very particular manner to
that Country. The Rt.lion.Gentleman was mistaken,
he had drawn no melancholy pidure of the State of
Ireland, nor was it necessary to do so in order to
draw the attention of Parliament to the state of
that part of the United Empire. If the Right
Hon. Gentleman had attended. in his place in the
last Session, he would have hoard him (Mr.. Co R y)
when stating the Supply and Ways and Means for
Ireland, instead of drawing a melancholy picture of
its situarion, exult in the condition of its Fi-
nances, of its Trade, of its Industry, notwith-
standing its Peace and Industry had been interrupt,
ed. The Right Icr. Gentleman knew, and ought

trt candour to have stated, that if the manufaBures
of Deland had declined, it was to be attributed,
not as a fault the Minister, but to a raging re-
bellion, which for near a year bad desolated that
country; nor was it perfedly consistent with can-
dour fur the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he was
making his comparative 'statements of the Trade of
' Ireland, to seled the year immediately following
that rebellion, when its effects were felt in their
full force, and which therefore could not be fairly
taken ;1.,, an example to shew the state of its corn-
merte. He must be aware of, and ought to have
stated, that the decrease in some of the articles of
Irish exportation were owing merely to the opera-
tion of temporary causes, which it was impossible
to foresee or to prevent. The distressed stare of
the consumers in general, in every part of the
United Kingdom, from the scarcity which had pre.
vailed, had undoubtedly , contributed to lower the
consumption in both kingdoms, and particularly
in the principal branch of Irish Exportation. But
this was owing to the very great price to which
the Linen Manufadure had arisen, which un-
doubtedly had a very great effect upon its sale ;
because in consequence of the unparalleled high
price of that article, the People of this Country
had diminished their demands. But the Right Hon.
Gentleman had forgot to add (for if he had not for-
gotten it he ought to have stated) what was the
case with regard to that branch of Manufalure
in the present year, he knew that the demand had
again increased to a very considerable degree, and
that there was every probability of the old Stock
being taken off. It would have been but candid
if the Right Honourable Gentleman had joined
these observations to the others which fell - from
him in the course of his speech. With regard to
what had fallen from •the Right Hon. Gentleman
respelling the increase of the debt of Ireland, he
was mistaken if he supposed that he was communi.
caring any secret to the House, for he (Mr. Co RRY)
had the honour of stating it distinctly to the House
last Session, when he stated the Ways and Means
for Ireland. As to what he had said about the
course of Exchange being against Ireland, surely
the Right Hon, Gentleman could not suppose it was
in the power of the Minister, or even of Parliament
to afford any remedy; he really did not exped to
hear an observation of that kind from the Right
Honourable Gentleman, because he must know that
these out-goings could only be remedied by the scale
being turned in favour of Ireland, which could not
be effeded at once by a parliamentary regulation.
But he wished to ask the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman to point out what measure which it was in
the power of Administration to propose for the be-
nefit of Ireland that had been negleded Here again
he could not but lament that the Right Honourable
Gentleman had not attended in his place previous
to the Christmas
,recess ; if he had, he would have
heard the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER express
the most anxious solicitude about the state of that
country ; he would have heard him express a wish
to avail himself of the wisdom of Parliament with
regard to the article of Corn—an article so important
to Ireland, and one from which she derived so much
advantage. The Right Honourable Gentleman
knew, that if the produce of that. article had
not been so abundant as heretofore, it was owing
to the hand of Providence, and could not with
any propriety be attributed as a fault to Mini-
sters. He must be aware, that to the same cause
only must be attributed the general decrease in the
exportation of provisions, and particularly of pork.
The Right Hon. Gentleman therefore, when he was
speaking of the state of Ireland, ought to have
stated that many of the effeds which he deplored,
could only be attributed to temporary and unfore-
seen causes, and were therefore not in any degree
to be considered as permanent. He trusted, there-
fore, that the good sense of the People of this
Country and of Ireland, would not suffer
them to be alarmed at the statement which the
Right Hon. Gentleman had thought proper to make.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had complained, that
the Trade of Ireland had not been attended to. In
answer to this, he could only beg of him to look to
the Bills which passed last Session for bonding of
sugar and of port, a system which had never been
prat ised in that country before, except in the ar-
ticle of tobacco. He had made these few observa-
tions, because they related tg, a subjed which ap-
peared to him to be extremely important. When
he came to state the Supply and Ways and
Means for the year, he should have an opportunity
of going more into detail upon the subjed. He
was now at issue with the Right Honourable
Gentleman upon two points, viz. The point
of Order, and the principle of the Measure under
discussion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had long
been acquainted with the forms of another House
of Parliament, which now no longer existed,
but he appeared not
.to be perfedly conversant
in the forms of the House of which he was
now a Member. Both last year, and on the
present occasion, Mr. CORRY said, he had, as
'he was hound in duty to do, conformed himself
to the rules and orders, and the present was exactly
conformable to these rules ; in adopting this line of
condud, he conceived he was ading in conformity
to his duty, and consequently was, he conceived,
free from every imputation of blame. The perma-
nent charges were not considered as charges for the
service of the current year, but the Right Hon.
Gentleman had contended, that they ought to be
voted in the Committee of Supply, and provided for
in the Committee of Ways and Means. In the
Committee of Supply it was only regular to vote
the Supplies for the service of the current year, and
the provisions made in the Committee of Ways
and Means were only to cover what was voted in
the Committee of Supply. The provisions made
in this Bill were not for current services, but for
permanent charges, and therefore they could not
have been voted in the Committee of Supply, nor
,provided for in the Committee of and Means ;
he therefore contended, that he had aded upon this
occasion in stria conformity with the rules and or-
ders of the House. With regard to the principle in
dispute between them, his objets was to grant perma-
nent supplies to cover permanent charge;,, .he wished
to follow the example ofGreat Britain in this instance,
so necessary to the security of the public creditor.
On the other hand, the Right Hon. Gentleman was
desirous (and, he confessed it appeared to have some.

thing of a resemblance to a bull) to ID- mr,
annual provision for permanent charges. Hi 3 1. and
CORRY'S) wish was, to put the public Credit°_as $
the Crown, who with regard to the Civil laisti7.ttes
purchaser for a valuable consideration, upon a ncdif,
footing than they now stood. This was the od
ference between the Right Hon. Gentleman ra
himself, and he would' leave it to the lionse,oo
decide which was in the wrong_ He had 1,,0s
a former occasion apologised, and stated his red ;0,
7to the House for not proposing, in the pir)cersrnena,'li„at
stance, to make these provisions for
charges also permanent. He had stated as his' rile
ctise, the present situation of Public Affairs). it
impossibility of knowing what EstabliShmen'olor
might be necessary to keep up, what the all'iatat
of the Loan necessary for the present year °lag
be, on which, to form a calculation for l'rnv`ht be
, for the Interest, and what improvements
made in the collection of the Revenue cf Ire' ai
rea
so as to increase its produce. He had the ple"'u oda
stating, that very great improvements had hNn Ili:0,r
in the colledion of the Revenue of that tit.
under the Administration of the present Lord Lis of
(Lord HARDWICAR), and through the exerti° ite,
rmaianj
a gentleman to whom that country was greatl.3rlac
debted, and ofwhom he would say much more I fit
had not now the honour of addressing Ilitn'l the
would only say, that by. his being called to hirerf
chair of that House, Ireland had sustained a uo
severe loss. 'lt appeared to him that it wnre,
have been improper for him, under all the fre,
sent circumstances, to have attempted in the° 'ben
sent Bill to make these provisions permanent) era
in7the course of a -few months he should he
oO
atr
1 abled to do it in a more
.distind and satisf•a ..,,,tit
manner, and therefore he had forborne to atte'"Jfeso
on the present occasion. There were some tie,
other points in the Right Honourable Genrjs.
man's speech upon which he would say a few vl, °wl
He had .truly stated, that the Consolidate(' *rest
was made liable in the first instance for the illt,; the
of the public. debt and the Sinking Fund, ar.,n,rieet
Right Hon. Gentleman had inferred from t"-sata
that this fund was not applicable to the oche' leiti
vices for which provision was proposed to be Ina if?
this Bill, because it was only applicable to Tod.
terest. of the public debt, and the .Sinlaingd not
But the Right Honourable Gentleman cool aace
have looked at the papers upon the Table, Pe-ace;
those papers contained a list of those very ter con.
to which he admitted this fund was appliCahle',4;
sequently there was no foundation for the 'argil!.
Honourable Gentlemaa's observation. The ' jot
Honourable Gentleman bad stated, that
Union had repealed all former ads in Ireland
°Pp
spdting the Revenue ; but this was not quite c:,)
reet : the Aa of- Union had only repealed 5.'.,3
The C4a,
ads .as were. inconsistent with it.
.List was a permanent charge,. given to His i,j1.41
jesty for a most valuable' consideration, ands
nor be considered in any other light than th3aia;
a permanent* charge, for which permanent Prsl
the A ,
sion was to be made. With regard to the Treasited
Bills, all the Acs of Parliament that dirAe li4
their issue, directed also that they shoot eat
payable on a fixed day, The day of parl if
was contained in the body of the Bill, °Ol3O
utnotirieo revenuesnciscolra
Consolidatedr
tg ieiedr,eb mustbe
cboein takeni
n g a inio e paymentrrn a.nova°al
it /
anticipationundo.f . thiLt l'elivrwes°;jl-14:a;:saf/.
a moanent, put the consideration of the 'II tbo
Bills out of the question, and would tell.
Right Honourable Gentleman that the P"ria
I-ft;
Charges alone were more in amount than t
venue now- proposed to be taken. He nlean„traiate
the Interest of the National Debt, and those r ant°
nent Charges which were now to be takenoeo
joint estimate, and were to be defrayed heC ge,
the two Countries, exceed the amount of theboll
venue proposed to be voted. If, on the dlier 014
the Revenue exceeded these Charges, the case tba
doubtedly would be different; but eveo then ofe
Surplus would have been at the disrs,t o'
Parliament: 'ln the last year, the. atnne- 001'
the Revenue was something more than 7,a4°°,,u tgic)
and the permanent' charges, were ah°,,ta-,atf
million and a half, independent of the .1 1." tire-
Bills. He was afraid these observations We!'efiapo
some to the House, but upon such a sublea'h,e„ alOn;
the House would excuse him. The Rig",i that
Gentleman had represented him to have said, yr,
there was not a shilling left in the TrcastlrY °0 001
land. 'The time was not yet come for hitn pool
the situation of Ireland' upon this point; 'heirrae 1:
have an opportunity of doing so when he c", , 10'
state tke Ways and Means for that county/' ' char
the INt Honourable Gentleman kne," DO;
therex, was not a shilling that remained in wet yo'
jar/ of Ireland at the close of the 135a-6ritY
that Government could touch without the anc-aatOed
of the House, and when the Ways and Meansr, ail
to be yawed to cover the Supplied of the Ye."s-005
monies, remaining in the Treasury would) as Of
the case last year, be brought to the credit tend'
Public. The Right Hon. Gentleman had c‘nar,iooll.
ed that this Ad was contrary to the At/ °:', vibe'
because it proposed to enact .several Dot`e-ci, if
were obsolete ; but in this lie was not corre'arioo°
cause it enaded the Duties, subject to the vac/
A
modifications which had been since adopted' allet °
sequently was perfedly consistent. with the 0 V'
Union. It did not enact the Duties as they We 112 e
fore, but as they stood after the Ati of Union this
Right Hon. Gentleman had also contended tb ister4
Att contained regulations which were inena:o for
with the Ad of Union ; but this was not Orr', the}
this Ad contained no regulations WhateVer,i when
would be the subject of separate Bills, 'its°, tin°
they came before the ‘House, it would ' Genf
enough to objet to them. The Right 110, ~
o,;ate.af
tlernan had also contended, that front the 11-0 Y of
this Bill, it would be impossible ta' objeet I°,, ea'.
the duties which it enacted. He could 000' ale'
.gfe - r
what ground the Right Hon. Gentleman n'`,,npaten
an observation, because it was perfcetlY c°—
'l9` ii°
ile "lie
to any Gentleman to oppose any one of t q. 1
which it Was proposed by this Bill to en'',,lr ',O eotIV
Right Hon. Gentleman had next Proc eede''. ' `chic
• - Billt 'awl,
;tient upon the Clause at the end of tit' , Sessl-ir
allowed it to be altered during the rase.' rae c'''.
and had taken an opportunity of In4king 5°
°Pr
servations, which appeared rather iosid'''':ia I'le
the alterations which had taken place hoc year

talc'

:e

stating; ,
• buttes upon tea and Sugar, by • . • teat ht had
been obliged to alter his Bill respeding those aid.
des. The fad was, the duty upon Tea had been
new-modelled, and therefore it was necessary to
bring in a new Bill ; and not from any defed in the
original Bill. With regard to the duty on Sugars
there was an increase in the duty upon that
article
in Great Britain, on account of the stopping of the
Convoy Duty, and consequently it became necessary
to do the same in Ireland. It would have been but
candour in the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he
tuade such positive assertions, to have also stated
those fads to the House. As to what he had said
about the Clause for altering Bills in the course of
the Session, he could only say, it was the constant
Pradice in this Country, and had been attended
with the most beneficial efreds. Clauses of that
kind were introduced into the most important aels,
such as the Income Bill, and the Assessed Tax Bill :
and indeed the more important the Bill was, the
tore necessary such a clause was. He was sorry it
had been necessary for him to take up so much of
the time of the House, but he totally differed from
the Right Honourable Gentleman upon the point of
form :.—:. this was a radical difference--their paths
Separated at the outset. He differed
from him in
Point of principle--he differed from him in the pic-
ture he had drawn of the state of Ireland—and he
differed froth him in what he had said about the at-.
tention paid by the United Parliament to the affairs
of Ireland. He was himself a living witness that the
people of Ireland had found in the United Parliament
mot only a fraternal, but a paternal care, and he was
sure the Right Hon. Gentle.nan would have felt as
he did, if he had not unfortunately disapproved of
the measure of Union. There was one point which
Le forgot to notice : the Right Honourable Gentle_
flan had said, that the Officers of the Parliament of
Ireland who were upon the Civil List
were no longer
upon it. This was not the case,
they still re-
' Thained upon the Civil List ; it was only the sur.
Phis of their salaries that wereaid out of other
funds. He felt great concern for
obliged having been
to intrude so long upon the House, and re.
turned thanks for its indulgence.
Mr. FOSTEIt explained.
t ;7;he CHANCELLOd of the EXCHEQUER
-a.u, he was really very unwilling to detain the
liouse, even for five minutes, after the very ableh.
and..,. dearc explanation given" o this matter by is
Right Hon. Friend, who had just spoken (Mr.
"". he Right Hon. Gentleman .who had
dust sat clown, put the question upon an issue, and
Isaid, that nothing could be voted in a Committeef
Stlpply, but what was for the current service o
the year 1 and he adverted to tie Bill now before
'be
for the Huse, as containing more than that. which was-
current service of the yea iti; 'But this was"
not
the way
ever in which Votes for thig-Riblic Service
ought
to be considered, and he mined that
Y sum of money voted for the Palk_ Service,
,ver since a Public Debt existed, was as much for
othe current service of the year as this Bill was.—
hat was the case in every Bill voting a sum of
ilpneY for the Public Service ? Precisely the saint in
neiole as that which was now before the House.
Y's MAJESTY called for a Supply for the Service of
-le Year, that was, in common language, for carry-
IZ on the Service of the year ; but that included the
ileacof defraying charges previously existing. The
ft,ll,e Of Commons could make no Grant of Money
CO?"hi. Services,previously called upon by
~,, ic unless
KING.--What was then the proceeding. in a
liernttittee of Supply ?....it was that of granting to
Sete,islVl AI"TY a Sum of Money to defray Public
k)iesPlies Ma ttsrY always called for Sup-
for the Services of the year.—His MAJESTY
Iltd not call fo
the interest
Money s'pecifically to provide for
the st of any Debt "anterior to the Service of
current year ;
meta to furnish the well
might he call on Parlia.
that
.„ might have }, Ricans offora. debt,
rce 1 - peen accumulating ever since the
providing—
vo Litton. The application from the Crown to
Parliamett ,
was always to defray the Services of the
i',:ar. His Right Hon. Friend had observed,
,and,
4vl_ r: ADDINGTON said, he approved of it highly,
Ttld he w
-as Persuaded the House would approve of
lwaalso, that there should be in Ireland, as there
• 8 in England, a permanent means for provid-
'ng for
• a permanent debt. To be sure this
Wstaas a principle which must gain assent the in-
parn t it was stated, a departure from which, on the
n,otnof, the Irish Parliament, was to be excused only
n;onletue Pressure of some necessity operating at the
folio t; but a course which was by no means to be
we,'
On, in
fee}u• ll ut what he was led most to iomment
the case now befOre the House, wili) the- ef-
-7 L wLh this Bill
was to produce : it wditid op-
rate, as Revenue Bills should operate, as a check
ituit Parliament on the Executive Government:-4
wi/wi as
assaying this on the part of Parliament, " we
s_ tsuffer Supplies to be voted, even for the
ervic. of •
A ' the year, or to be furnished under any
pre ice
until we are satisfied with the Executive
,°vernrrient :" that was the principle-of the sstem,
„.;-t the former mode adopted in Ireland did} really
over
to the Executive Government a great power
ever
the Public Purse: for although debt, when ae-
a.Lirnulated, should he attually defrayed, and even
tthotigh there should be no permanent Fund for
efa.t, Pout Pose, yet, in the mean time, the situation
umfotunld, beho possessed money in the Public Funds
Very
Government ,UnCoMfortable, for if the Executive
, nappeni, -
Parliament, should e •the confidence of
ng to possess
ple might consid
1 ~,er as injurious to them, and against
which they trii,ht e
0 veuernently remonstrate, appre.
pensive, perk-e s I • • -
Le ...' I ,P , tilde coin:; of the debt mignt not
itre. paid, they would have no such influence as they
rght have under the system which was pursued
c e, that of makir-).
seeurit - . .6 a permanent provision or
3, of the Public Creditor it being`there only
voted .
annually, there being always an apprehension
case_c) eitalnty in that mode. Parliament in the one
would really possess much less in the other,
of powce over the Executive Government. With
t.p to the Question of Order, he should hope
there would, in that House, be no diffi w culty hat. r
triad. ever. But the Right Honourable Gentleman bad
'2e a stand on one or two points, which had
'4 been adverted to by his, Right Hon. Friend, and
vro which he should therefote take the liberty of ad.
ertillg 'Very shortly. The Right I-lon. Gentleman
ad asked, why not Year
go on with the Services of the
for the two Couotr',es, pari parse . The an.

sorer was :,—This Was rot for the Service of the
yew', but means of providing for the Interest of an
antecedent debt, and, properly speaking, had no-
thing to do with the Service of the year. There
was another part to which the Right Hon. Gentle-
man particularly alluded, and on which he thought
necessary to say a few words, namely, the sub_
jell of the Civil List.—Unquestionably nothing
could be so desirable, as had been stated on a for_
titer occasion, as that this branch of Expenditure
should be provided for permanently ; and upon this
subje& his Right Hon. Friend had, most ably
stated reasons why it was in its present state, and
apologised for not bringing the whole of it under
a permanent system—and this arose from the pecu-
liar situation of the Country.—We should hereafter
have to examine all the Duties imposed in Ireland,
their aaual produce, the manner of colleaing them,
and then we should have to consider of the means for
providing permanently for the Debt of Ireland ; and
that in a way the least onerous to the People of that
Country. He had heard from the Right Hon.
Gentleman, with particular regret, that there had
been some inattention in Parliament to the affairs of
Ireland :.he had asked, what steps had been taken
towards removing difficulties and impedimenta
which formerly stood in the way, and, indeed, now
stood in the way of a free communication between
the two Countries ? Now, he averred that during
the whole of the last Spring, until the prorogation
of Parliament, when Metnbers had an opportunity
of returning to their respedive homes, not for gra-
tification, but, chiefly, for the discharge of other
duties, there had been much attention bestowed on
the affairs of Ireland : an uninterrupted attention,
and the course would unquestionably be pursued ;
and he could tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, that a
system of regulation upon this subjed was in coesi-
derabie forwardness, by which the impediments
suggested by him, would, he hoped, be entirely
removed.—But he thought it a little hard, that on
circumstances which, so fairly, accounted for the
delay of a plan of regulation on the subjea of the
Revenue Of Ireland, the Right Hon. Gentleman
should have taken it for granted there had been a
remissness in this matter ; when, in fail, there had
been none at all. But, with respea to the com-
ments of the Right Hon. Gentleman on the state of
.Ireland in general, he had been so fully, so justly,
and so ably answered by his Right Hon. Friend,
that he need not add any thing to that answer ;'
and yet he knew not how to refrain from an ob.
servation Of two.—He understood the Right Hon.
Gentleman, tonight, to treat of the affairs of Ire-
land, as if not only the Finances, but the Corn.
me= of the Country was declining ,
terday, he had the happiness: .to hear fremi that
Right Honourable Gentleman, that on the sub.
jest of Agriculture, Ireland was in a flourishing
condition, and this he attributed to the wis-
dom of its Laws—He trusted that to the wis-
dom of our Laws, that Country would owe as
much on the subject of its Commerce and Ma-
nufadures; for he was• confident, that encourage..
ment to Trade, from Parliamentary Regulations,
would draw Manufactures, and every species of
commercial enterprize, in its train ; nothing but
this was wanting to make Ireland one of the most
important branches of the British Empire, by which
she would reward us for all our labours, make
amends for all expences, and become, indeed, one
of the most valuable parts of the United Kingdom.
Under the direction of a good Government, and in
the hands of wise and discreet persons, acing under
the provisions of Parliament, vigilant, and provi.
dent of its interests, he really did not see, in the
affairs of Ireland, any thing that was not to be
contemplated with satisfadion by, a man who had
the best wishes for its welfare, and who felt a pride
and a desire to manifest a joy in the prosperity of
the British Empire.- He said this from a full con-
viaion, after an attentive perusal of the affiirs of
that Country, as far as he had been able to compre-
hend them ; he would add, that he should be
ashamed of himself, if it could be justly imputed to
him, that he was negligent of the interest of that
Country, or that he had not the most earnest
solicitude for its welfare, and was not always
ready to afford every means in his power to
accomplish the objedt of its complete prosperity.
He was not speaking for himself only ; he would
undertake to speak for others. He knew. the zeal
of his Colleagues as well as his own, upon this sub-
jet ; nor was that all, for there was a disposition
in that House, which would supply any defeas that
might appear in him or any of those with whom he
had the pleasure of ailing ; if Ministers should hap-
pen to sleep upon their posts, that House would not
sleep,. and would soon awake them. The House
would do its own duty, and, if necessary, would
take the charge of this important subjea out of the
hands of Ministers; or do that which Ministers,
without the assistance of the House, might be found
to be incapable of performing. Under these cir-
cumstances, he felt comfort in considering the state
of Ireland at the present moment.—With respell to
the Bill now before the House being temporary, that
was a matter of necessity, and that was all he had, at
present, to say; nor was it necessary, indeed, for
him to have said so much, after the very able and
satisfactory manner in which the subject had been
treated by his Right, Hon. Friend (Mr. CORRY).
He should, however, just add, that the objed of
the system just now about to be adopted, was to
convince the Stockholder of Ireland, that he was to
be placed on a footing with the Stock-holder of
England ; not having his property depending upon
Annual Grants, but on .a permanent provision.
Mr. 0 RAM BY approved of the plan as stated by
the two Right Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. ADDINGTON
and Mr. CORRY), who had done themselves so
much credit, and given the House so much satis.
fadion to-night, particularly on the subjea of a
permanent provision for the permanent Debt of
Ireland: He corretted some of the statements of
Mr. FOSTER on the provisions of the Ad of Union,
and alledged that that Right Hon. Gentleman had
confounded, in the argument, two things that stood
distinct upon the faas, namely, the Debt of Ireland,
and the regulation of the Duties there.—He main.
tained, that the plan proposed by the present Bill
Was extremely simple, and was the course pursued
last Session of Parliament.

The question wink then put, the Bill was real 2

second time, and oicierea to be dOinmitted to
Committee of the whole House to-morroW. -
The House in a Committee of the whole House
came to a Resolution for continuing, fora time to
be limited, the Bill for making Starch out of Rice,
Potatoes, &c. on the Motion of Mr. VAI4SITTAkT:
—Report ordered to be received to,morrow.
The House in a Committee of the whole House,
past a Resolution to instrua the Chairman to move
for leave to bring in a Bill for amending the Law
respeaing the Irish Linen ManufaaureThe House
being resumed; and the Motion made, gave leaire
to bring in the Bill accordingly, on the Mutidn of
Mr. FesTER.

At half past Six o'Clock the Rouse adjourned.

THE SUN.

SOL EM QU IS DICERS F ALSUM AUDEAT ?