The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-15 00:00:00

to touch upon other such projects, he would advert to
what the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin said.
That Hon. and Learned Member said that a relative of a
Noble Lord, a Noble Duke, ought not to hold a Colonelcy
of a regiment, because he was a Duke.---(No, no.) He
so understood it, and the Hon. and Learned Member cen-
sured that Noble Duke for holding a sinecure. The Hon.
and Learned Member said that a Colonelcy of a regiment
was a sinecure—why it was one of the great rewards
which were given to a long life of briliant military ser-
vices. The Hon. and Learned M-Inber would then keep
all regiments from p issing into the hands of Noblemen,
a•id be would keep all Dukes out of the army—describing
their rewards as sinecures which they received fur their
services. But what would be the effect if the Noble Duke
were not to take his pay? Why, the effect would be
eitrer that no man must go into the army who was not
able to live wholly without its rewards, or who had no-
thing el•e but its pay. And what would be the consequence
of that ? All regiments must be given to those who were
not gentlemen ; and a great writer had said that, in the
leading profession of arms, no man could expect to com-
mand, who was not a gentleman.—(Hear, hear; Oh, oh ;
No, no.) Everything that could make the profession fit
for a gentleman was there, and to gratify the noble ambi.
tion of serving a man's country in the army was often the
stimulus to many honourable exertions.—(Hear, hear.)
The effect, lie believed, of the Hon. and Learned Mem-
bet's plan would he most injurious to the army. Nothing
could be so mi-chievous, and he was glad the Noble Duke
was Colonel of a regiment—glad that he took his salary ;
and he hoped the ranks of the army would long be filled
with persons of that description. To say that an officer,
who had served, and was a Colonel of a regiment, was
not to take the pay, because he was a Nobleman, would
be of the greatest detriment to the public service. He
felt that he ought to oppose the motion, and he should do
that if there were some risk in it, and some merit in it,
though there was not likely to be any risk, and therefore
no merit ; but if there were all possible risk on his part,
and therefore a great dell of merit in opposing it, he
should do so, and do it conscientiously, and he should do
the same if lie were speaking in the Parliament on Col-
lege-green, though he might not do it there with the same
safety.—(Hear, hear; Question, question.)

Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL rose amidst loud calls
of " Question," but, after a short time, obtained a hearing.
lie was surprised, he said, at the speech of the Hon.
Baronet. Before the Hon. Baronet made any allusions
to speeches at College-green or any where else--and made
those allusions as reproaches—the Hon. Baronet ought to
wipe out of his own recollection, and the recollection of
the House, that there was such a place as Palace-yard.—
( Hear.) The Hon. Baronet was now supporting sinecures,
though for 25 years, in every speech he had uttered,
and every address he had sent forth to his constitu-
ents, he had abused sinecures as the plague spots of. the
State. He begged in particular the Hon. Baronet not
to forget, that in one of his addresses to the electors
of Westminster, before he was sitting on the Mini-
sterial side of the House, he not only talked of sine-
cures as evils, but he told the people not to rest.
till they . had made all the sinecurists disgorge all
that they had ever taken in past times of their ill-gotten
and enormous wealth.—(Loud and continued cheers. )
The present motion did not go to make the" sinecurists
disgorge what they had got ; it only went to prevent them
gorging in future : but the Hon. Baronet, in the fervour of
his zeal when he was on that side of the House, wished to
h ive a law with a retrospective operation.—(Hear, bear.)
He wished the Hon. Baronet joy of his consistency. The
Hou. Baronet talked of arguments ad cuptandum rulyras,
but if ever there was a man who had made use of such
arguments, who had indeed lived upon them, it was the
Hun. Baronet.—(Cheers.) If the Hun. Baronet had left
th at off, he might at least suffer others to catch the mantle
that was falling from his shoulders, now that he was
ascending to the third heaven. The Hight Hon. Baronet,
the other Member for Westminster, had said that some
speeches were intended for the public huviings, so the two
Members for Westminster seemed to hunt in couples.
[Sir J. Hobhouse was understood to deny that he had made
any such allusion.] Certainly the Right Hon. Baronets
acted together, and he had only to say, that when they
came to the hustings again, they might find more difficulty
in defending their conduct. The Hon. Baronet said the
gentlemen who supported the motion did not like the
Reformed Parliament, because it was not an instrument
in their hands.—(Hear, hear.) The Hun. Baronet
was hasty in coming to a conclusion that they had no
weight in the House because they were nut numerou-ly
supported on the only question they had yet dehaaed ; but
let the Hon. Baronet wait till those debates went forth to
the country, let him see what impression they made,
and what support the people gave to the opposition, and
then see whether or not they had weight in the Parlia-
ment. The Hon. Baronet wound find, he believed, that
they had great weight on this very question of sinecures.
The Hon. Baronet bad talked unfairly of the argument of
the Han. and Learned Member for Dublin relative to the
Noble Duke, who was a colonel of a regiment. What
the Hun. and Learned Member said was, that the sum
which went to that Noble Duke might be much better
appropriated to five or six poor and meritorious offi-
cers. The Hon. and Learned Member concluded by
saying that be would vote for the motion on principle,
and because he had seen two instances of sinecures in
the county with which he was e nnected that were
a orth 600/. a year, given to persons, one of whom at least
had no claim from services, and that sum of money would
support a hundr• d starving labourers for six months.—
(Loud ea Is of " Qu-stion.")
Mr. BRISCOE obtained a hearing by saying that he
could not give a silent vote on this question, particularly
as he meant to vo'e in a dill' rent manner from his Hon.
Colleague who had already spoken. It he gave his vote far
the motion of the Hon. Mother for Middlesex, be should
he voting for a great constitutional change. Secondly, if
he gave his vote for that motion, he should not, as had
been stated by the Hon Member opposite, give any rel et
to the people of England. He should not give them any
relief, but, on the contrary, should take a large sum of
money out of their pockets.--(" No, no;" " Hear, hear.")
It was a ereat constitutional principle that the control of
the army should be placed in the hands of the Crown, sub-
ject to the vote of that House: but the motion would vest
the control of the army directly in the House.—(Hear,
hear, calls of " Question.") If he were an important
Member, he would move an amendment, to the effect that
an inquiry be made whether or not military sinecures
could not be placed on the same footing as the sinecures of
the navy. Surely, nsbody would say that the places
which were given to naval officers—nobody would say
that the office of Rear-Admiral of England was a sinecure
which ought to be abolished. He would give his vote
honestly against the motion, because it would not give
relief ; though he should be ready to give relief by any sa-
crifices he could make.—(Loud calls of " Question.")
Mr. HUME rose to reply. He meant to detain the
House but a very few minutes, but there were some
things he must remark upon. The Hon. Member for
Taunton said, that in a monarchy there must be sinecures—
(No, no)—and the Hon. Member for Surrey says this is
a great constitutional question, and that the House is
going to take the command of the army, but it is not so.
Now, if 50 sinecures be good things, why not 500 or
5,000 ?—(" No, no," " Oh, oh.") If it was good in
principle, let them follow up the principle, and establish
as many sinecures as possible. The Hon. Baronet talked
of courting popularity, but no man hail done so more than
the Hon. Baronet, and though he may do so no longer,
let him not blame those who are only unit iting his for-
mer example.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet
had long opposed the Tory faction, because they gave
all the offices of the State to the dependents of the aris
tocracy ; but what does he now say' Why that all the
officers of the army must be gentlemen.—(No, no; Hear.)
The Hon. Baronet actually asserted that no man could
expect to be a successful officer who was not a gentleman.
—(Cheers.) Why what was Napoleon before he was an
officer, and what were many of Napoleon's best Generals?
A more preposterous proposition than that of the Hon.
Baronet be had never heard. He objected to sinecures in
principle, and he had introduced the discussion on prin-
ciple only. Ti ey were payments, but payments under a
false name. They were pretexts, and therefore he wanted
to have them abolished. The Gallant General, the Mem-
ber for Nottingham, said he would vote for the motion
if any one of the uffices was a complete sinecure. Why
here was a case of a man holding au office in Canada,
who had never left England. Was not that a sinecure ?
So with the whole list. Not one of them hardly was a
resident at the place where his office was, and every such
office was a complete sinecure. He confidently claimed,
therefore, the vote of the Gallant Officer. 'There was the
case of Admiral Cockburn, who was now on his way to
the West Indies, and who was a General of Marines. Could
anything be a more complete sinecure than that? He made
this motion with no view to harass the Government, but
to warn it. He had never seen sinecures (though be was
almost ashamed to say it) half so well defended by' the
Tories as they now were by the Whigs.—(Laughter.)
The Tories, if they ever came back to office, might learn
something of the lion. Member opposite. Such a perver-
sion of language indeed--in their mouths, it was quite a
new language—he had never heard.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Member for Devonport, who had served his country
long and arduously, did not get more than was given to
two striplings, who were the King's sons.—(Hear, hear.)
It was not, without. a feeling of shame that he bad
heard that Gallant Officer say he had been out of pocket