The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-03 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, .June 2.

The SPEAKER resumed the chair at a quarter past five
o'clock. The house was unusually full. -
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

A message from the Lords announced their lordships'
assent to the Suffolk ➢larine Insurance, Aberavon Har-
bour, Hartlepool Railway, Dudley Water-works, Stoke
Ferry Drainage, and other private bills.
MINISTRY—IRISH CHURCH.
Lord ALTHORP, having been called upon by the
Speaker, rose and said, that in rising to move the order of
the day for resuming the debate•upon the motion of the
hon. member for St. Alban's, he should feel it his

duty to offer a few observations to the house. (Hear. )
He wished to state the course which his Majesty's
Ministers had felt it their duty to adopt since the time
when he had moved the adjournment of the house. It was
not necessary for him to 'state, because it had been
avowed frequently, that a diffeAnce of opinion existed
among Ministers on the question of the power of
the Government (in case such a necessity should exist),
of appropriating in a different manner, the whole of the
revenues of the church establishment. He regretted that
some of his colleagues had separated from him upon that
question, and no person could regret the loss of their valu-
able assistance( which he had often experienced in carrying on
the business of that house) more than himself. ( Hear,
hear.) His Majesty's Ministers were aware that the four
of their colleagues who had separated from them differed
from the rest of the Cabinet upon that question,but they were
agreed upon every other question ; and all of them were also
agreed in thinking that it was not absolutely necessary to
come to a decision upon that question until they had secured
the revenues of the church of Ireland for such purposes as it
might be expedient for Parliament to apply them to.
On these grounds the cabinet had not thought that there
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the church establishment, they thought that they were
not justified in breaking upon that question. ( Hear. )
That motion and the mode by which he was aware the
question would be supported, ledthe Government to feel that
they were in a situation of great difficulty. In those circum-
stances, his noble friends, the Duke of Richmotid Ind the Earl
of Ripon had in the most honourable and the most hand-
some manner tendered their resignations, in order to free
his Majesty's Government from the difficulties in which
they felt themselves placed. Under these circumstances
he (Lord Althorp) had proposed an adjournment of the
debate upon the motion of the hon. member. It had been
rumoured abroad that the resignations which had taken place
arose from differences in the cabinet. This (as we under-
Stood the noble lord to say) was not true. He was not
aware that the resignations, or any resignations, had been
tendered. He heard of it after he had come down
to that house, and the instant he heard that such was the
case, and that these resignations had been tendered
to and accepted by his Majesty, he felt that he could
not do but that which he did do. He could not allow
the debate to go on under such circumstances. This was
the explanation he had to give. With respect to the
course which his Majesty was advised to adopt on the pre-
sent occasion, it was to issue a Commission of Inquiry,
that Commission to be a lay-commission ; to visit
the different parishes in Ireland ; to ascertain
On the spot the number of members of the established
church in each parish and benefice, in those where there
had been a union of parishes to ascertain the number in
both, and•the distance from one to the other ; to ascertain
the number and rank of the ministers, and whether they
were resident or non-resident ; to state the periods at
which divine service was performed, and the average num-
ber of persons who attended, and whether they had in-
creased, were stationary, or had decreased ; also to
ascertain the number of Roman Catholics in the
different parishes, and the number of Presbyterians and
other Dissenters ; to ascertain the state of each parish
with reference to its moral education ; the number
of scholars, and whether they had increased, were
stationary, or had decreased, and whether there were
means adequate for the maintenance of such schools ,•
and to report upon such other circumstances connected
with the moral and political relation which the esta-
blished church and the other sects bore upon the
condition of the people of Ireland. (Hear, hear. )
Such an inquiry as he had proposed was necessary, and
without it it would be impossible for the house to
legislate. The question then was, whether his honour-
able friend would come to the decision that he would
proceed with the inquiry, and he (Lord Althorp) wished
to know whether, after such a proposition for such an in-
quiry, the hon. member would deem it necessary to pro-
ceed in his motion. (Hear, hear. )
Mr. WARD said the noble lord had conic forward on
the part of his Majesty's government on one of the most
important questions that had ever been discussed in that
house. (Hear.) The noble lord proposed to meet it with
a commission, but he (Mr. W. ), if such were appointed,
must remain in the same situation. ( Hear, hear.) The
position taken by the noble lord did not and could not
satisfy him in the position in which he was placed. He was
not influenced by any hostile motives, but he merely looked
to the course he was bound to pursue as an honest man.
( Hear.) Seeing that he had mooted a great public ques-
tion—the appropriation of church property in Ireland, if
his resolution were once agreed to, such a committee
of inquiry must naturally have followed. (Hear, hear. )
He wished, however, to see that inquiry coupled with the
recognition, on the part of government, of the prin.
fih irepma
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then Hwphich they must act at last. ( Hear, hear,
position
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Government would gain in principle ;hat it had lost in
,alent ; but nothing had occurred to lead him to change
his original
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it then became him to state very shortly the views he en-
tertained upon the motion before the house. ( Hear,
hear.) With respect to the first part of the
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Un-
less, however, he concurred, as he did not, in the latter
parts of the motion, viz„ that the amount ofchurch property,
.vas, in that country, more than commensurate to, the
waits Qf the lumbers of the established church,