The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-16 00:00:00

to send pollard here it would be sent; and when it was

said, " See how ungratefully France -tre its us," he must
say that he was not deterred by the policy of Frauce
from believing that it was the interest of this country to
pursue the policy with which it had identified itself. Un-
der the recent system, it was not denied that the linen
manufacture of Ireland had greatly thriven; and looking
back for a period of 16 years, since the commercial system
had been liberalised, the exports by this country
to France had increased (he sp:.ke from memory) from
400,000/. to 2,000,000/. He regretted the restrictive
policy to which France clung with so much tenacity;
this country had the greatest interest in the pursuit of
industry by that great and ingenious nation; but, if he
believed this country bad an interest in paralyziug the
commercial system of France, he should anticipate that
result from adherence to a system which he knew to be

absolutely incompatible with any great extension a her
commercial and ma,utecturing interests. France c,uld
never enter the great field of competition with America
and Great Bri,ain till she freed herself trona those

shackles which this country had had the wisdom and the
courage to get rid of. He did not know that it was ne-
cessary for him to detain the House; he should abstain
from ntering into details, for he was not disposed to
ground his opposiion on minute calculations. Ho rested
it rather on the great principle on which he hoped the
House would take its stand. The Noble Lord had talked
of the partial injury brought by the tree trsde measures
on part cular classes. He (ilr. Laboochere) was afraid
any change in commerce, even from bad to good, must
a,lapays produce hat result. But, surely, they were not
without their compensations. He had seen the other
day a document not prepared in a Government office
or brought forward by men advocating any system of
political economy, or any political party, but by per-
sons engaged in works of bonevolence. He referred to
the reports of those who, as district visitors, were en-
gaged in visiting the haunts of the lower classes in this
mighty city, reports given with reference to the condi
tion of the industrial classes for the last two years by
medical men, clergymen, and others. They all stated
that a groat and manifest improvement had taken place
in the physical condition, outward appearance, moral
habits, and cleanliness of those classes, and in every par-
ticular, owing to their greater comf-rt; and in many in-
stances the result was traced directly to the increased
means et obtaining provi-ions ch, ap. These were objects
on which it was worth while for that House to legislate;
and if they were satisfied that, by their recent legisla-
tion, these objects had been promoted, that not only the
physical state, but the moral condition and the political
contentment of the great body of the ounmunity had
been promoted, he hoped that they would pause be ore,
inconsequence of any partial case being stated in favour
of any porii-n of their country then, they abandoned the
policy they bad ad .pied, an'l that they wool I prefer that
which ought to be the great ohj-et in all their deliber,-
:ions, the general benefit of the great body of the people.
On these grounds he entreatr d the ilou-e o refuse its
assent to toe motion, against which he should give his
decided vote.—(Hear, h ar.)
Mr. STUART stated, that to raise the whole ques.

tion with reference to the case of one class was whit'', the
Noble Lord desired to do. His own constituents had
complained, in a petition, of the injury inflicted on them
by the repeal of the corn-laws. It would not answer
for the Government to slight the compluints of a suffer-
ing class. The millers, it might be said, were the last
persons who ought to complain; they were merely the
manufacturers; and it was the fact that they were
complaining, and not without reason. Their request
was a modest one, namely, for inquiry whether they
could not be relieved from the consequences of le-
gislation, which had affected them in common with
()them France adhered to a system of protection, so
did the most eminent statesmen of America. A writer
in the United States had prognosticat, d that not only
the Mayor of Stockport, who was a miller, but the
:`,lfayor of Manchester, who was a cotton miller, would
come to Parliament with the same c ,mpleint.—(Hear.
bear.) He recommended the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government, and the Right Hon. President of the
Board of Trade, to study the Transatlantic writers, one
of whose works aptly expressed the ohj,,ct aimed at by
his Noble Friend, namely, "The Harmony of Interests,
Agricultural, Manufacturing, and Commercial." Ministers
appeared to have had for a text-book Franklin's "Rules
for making a Great Empire a Little One," and the rule
" If people make complaints, don't listen to them, and
tell them they must suffer," had been faithfully worked
Out in Ireland. From references made by Sir R. Per 1
to Adam Smith's description of the agricultural body,
it was to be inferred he intended to wake them some

compensation. He considered that they bad by their
legislation sacrificed, for the benefit of the manufactur •
ing class, the interests of the whole agricultural popula-
non—of all cones rued in the produce of land dir, et iy
and indirectly. whether as landlords, tenants, millers.
mortgag►es, or tradesmen. He warned the Manchester
cotton millers and steam loom weavers that their con-
dition might before long .be similar to that of the corn
millers. The Mayor of Siockport, who was a miller
and manufacturer, supported tree-trade measures, aid
thought he would beat the world, but his anticipations
had been disappointed, he found that the French
miller beat him. and he had gone to the wall. The
Aweric,in manutacturers might berure long put the
Aanchester mill ra of cotton in the ...time position in
which the French c,rn millers had put the English corn
millers. He held in his hand a letter trom Mr. Thorpe,
of Newark, an extensive miller and malster, relative to
(h.- comparative nal-rits of English and French machi-

nery. (rne Hon. G-ntleman read the letter, the writer
of whieti salted that as Lord Grey had told the House
that English millers rod not know their business, assn
held up she French miller., as superior to them, he (Ylr.
Thorpe) could only say that it he had follow:A th-
French system he would have figured in the Gazette
long ago; and that French grinding, instead of beina
held up as a pattern to English millers, would he a dis•
grace to them.) He (Ar. htuart) thought, thun, th.t it
did not become the Governmeet to t=aunt this suffering
and complaining class with want of skill. and to call
upon them to expend furth-r capital. He hoped the
House would agree ro the motion of the Noble L.,rd fur
he considered that by i.e-ativing it they would incur
very serious responsibility.
Mr C. ANSTEY stud that he supported the motion,
because he befit ved it would tend to the advantage of
Ireland, particularly as it did net in the least interere
with free trade,•as was thought and represented by some
Memners. However, he should say that he felt it his
duty that it would be proved that there was a necessiLy
for such a measure for the ugriculgutists of Irela=nd, now
burthened with taxes beyond their means. He hoped
that the House would admit of a Committee, and if such
were allowed, he was prepared to show that the millers
in Ireland were suffering much, and that if Parliament
did not interfere the people must necessarily suffer.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE said that he wished to adhere to
the question of the Irish millers, without touching in
the least on free trade.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
was a manufacturer of wheat himself, but he denied
that wheat was a raw material, and he asked the House
to say if he was not to have protection for what he pro-
duced? Why should the miller have protection for what
he produced? The result of special protection to the
miller would be that if they got corn into this country
free of duty, with a prohibition in respect of flour, the
miller would say, " I will only give you such a price for
your wheat as I please, having at my command a large
supply of that article against a competion, in which I
am guarded." The fact was that the millers of Ireland
had not applied themselves to the improvement of their
machinery so much as the French millers had done,
although since the adoption of free trade measures con-
siderable improvements had been made by the millers in
respect of the machinery; and while he would be willing
to support any motion which would benefit Ireland, he
considered that their best security now was to fully carry
out the principles of free trade; and believing that motion
was an infringement upon those principles, be would vote
against it.
Mr. NEWDEG ATE supported the motion. This
was the simplest case that it was possible to conceive.
The millers of Ireland were injured as well as the millers
of England, and they, therefore, demanded inquiry into
their case. Between 1845 and 1849 there was an in-
crease in the imponation of wheat fl cur into the Unit, d
Kingdom of 242 per cent., and that certainly was suffi-
ctent to show tnat the millers had suffered to a grew
extent. Then the imp .station of wheat into this
country from Ireland hid fallen off to a very con-
siderable extent wise 1845, the dimunition being in
wheat. fl,tur, and °atm, al, upwards of one million cwt.
The plain foot of the case was, tout the importation of
wheat into the United King tons within the last taw
years had increased one-half, while the importation of
wheat and wheat fl air into England from Ireland had
decreased more than one-half, which was a very signifi-
cant sign of how the present system was tending
France, from being an importing ceuutry, as regarded
corn, was now an exporting one, and a French states-
man stated, that since 1844 five millions of acres were
brought into cultivation in France fc r the express par-
pose of supplying the English market. The something
occurred in the northern parts of Liarrnany. and at borne
they had the millers complaining. Yet the millers were
determined to du nothing to relieve :he distress, hut al-
towed it to cure itself. He read a letter from a miller
in
Wakefield, in which it was contended that it was Un-
paseible for the English millers to compete with the
French, in consequence of the heavy rates and taxes to
which they were subjected. In his (A!'• Newdegate's)
opinion, the Noble Lord who brought, forward the mu.
don only did his duty to his country in calling the at-
tention of the Elamite to too distress existing among the
millers in Ireland.
Mr. WILSON contended that if any argument was to
be drawn from the importation of flour and wheat dur-
ing the last five years, it must be in favour of the
miller. From the observatiAls -made by the Noble
Lord, it might be inferred that .becaube France en
joy, d protection,
the people.), enjayeel great prosperity.
NOW, ho conttuded that if ilia Eegish farmer rut-
fered, the French farmer suff red sill more, as may be
seen from the report of the Mu:elate r of Commerce, lately
published. The N.eble Lord also said that the French
miller was enabled to grind fl tur in bond, and then
to export it to foreign countries, and undersell the
English miller in his own market. Nothing could be
wore fallacious than such au argument. France was
divided into sections, and although the miller there
was permitted to grind wheat in bond, and then ex-
port it, he was obliged to import an equal quantity
from the section in which he resided. The Noble
Lord said the English and Irish miller had better
machinery than the French millers ; but how
did it happen that the French miller was enabled to
grind his flour and send it to Odessa, and then undersell
him, and even do so in the English market? English-
men by their ingenuity were often stile to overcome the
difficulties of climate, and to compe se with foreigners in
all parts of the world. lie alluded to the Government
mill at Deptford, which was, he belaieved, the most per-
fect in the kingdom, and in which a new improvement
was lately made, by which a gr eat saving of time,
lab -.or, ;Aid , ff.
who had a mill in Reading, where he ground flour on the
old ay3tem, whereas, in London, where he had another