The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-09 00:00:00

and others, could imagine they were acting
rightly when they found themselves voting
with the most determined enemies of improve-
ment. It may be that they are right, and that
the Bill does not go far enough. We, our-
selves, have thought so from the beginning,
but we are willing to take what we can get, and
we really believe that the public mind is not yet
quite prepared for a change that would go much
further. The principle that Parliament has a
right to deal with the income appropriated to
the maintenance of the Church, as freely
as that appropriated to the maintenance
of the Army, has not been negatived, and we
hope that the progress of public opinion will,
ere long, enable, indeed force, whatever Mini.
stry may be in power, to make an equitable
appropriation of the church revenues among the
ministers of all sects, and if there be afterwards
any thing to spare, to aid in relieving the people
of a part of the burdens which now press upon
them so heavily.

The Post of this morning makes a lengthy
appeal to the House of Lords, entreating that
their Lordships will make every effort to throw
out the Local Courts Bill, which, of course, in
our Contemporary's opinion, is fraught with all
sorts of horrors and depravities. "It behoves
the House of Peers," says our Contemporary,
" to recollect that, in rejecting this Bill, they
adopt a decision which it may be in their power
to revise, and, should it seem in their future
judgment to be erroneous, to retract." So then
there is a probability of their Lordships' decision
being erroneous, and of their being consequently
compelled to retract it And yet the very journal
which volunteers this admission, urges on the deci-
sion with breathless haste Now a really honest
adviser—one who had the interests of the commu-
nity, not of faction, at heart—would have exhorted
their Lordships to consider, ere they decided ;
but the Post, in the madness of its party zeal,
says, " No, no ; this will never do ; this is
giving Ministers fair play ; your Lordships must
decide first and consider after ; what is to be-
come of us all, if \Vhig schemes of improvement
are to be accepted or rejected, only in accordance
with their deserts? We must turn out Mini-
sters; honestly, if we can, but at all events we
must turn them out, so the Sooner We set about
it the better." Such is the reasoning of the
Post, which, however, it has too much tact to
adopt openly, but insinuates in a succession of
sly, wheedling, sophistical periods:
" The Localt' Courts Bill," continues our
Contemporary, " is part of the same system fur
progressively increasing Ministerial patronage.
The influence it would throw into the hands
of the party now in power, is immense.
The Local Judges—Whig partisans of course
would be enabled to command many of the at-
torneys of our villages and small towns, by means
of the power they must possess of lending more
or less of their judicial ear to particular in-
dividuals—to say nothing of the formidable
powers of fine and suspension with which they
are to be armed," The plain English of this
is, that no Local Judge appointed by a
Whig Ministry can possibly be an honest
man. He must, from the very natute or things,
lend his " judicial ear to particular individuals ;"
--in other words; be a scoundrel fit only for
the Hulks or Botany Bay Now if, according
to our contemporary's showing, a Whig Judge
must essentially he a knave, how comes it that
a Whig lawyer, who has since boxed the poli-
tical compass; and was lately raised to the Bench
by the Whigs themselves, can possibly be an
honest man ? If a consistent Whig Judge must
necessarily be a rogue, surely an apostate Whig
Judge can be no miracle of integrity ! Yet
Lot d LYNDHURST, in the Post's estimation, is
a model for all patriots: He is pure as un-
sunned snow. Our Contemporary swears by him
as the Mahometans by the Holy Camel, or the
Black Stone of Mecca.

How different would have been the language
of the F'Ost, had Lord LYNDHURST stuck to hie
old principles, and been still a Whig How jet
black would have been his present snowy white
But his apostacy has saved him. It is this which
endears him to our Contemporary—no doubt
from that refined, instinctive sympathy, which
binds kindred souls together.
The Post's lamentations over the " influence
which the Local Courts till must of necessity
throw into the hands of the party in power,"
point an edifying moral. They are the finest
samples of the cant direct and outrageous, to be
met with in the records of political discussion.
Conceive the exquisite propriety of their origi-
nating with the organ of that party which, for
the last fifty years and upwards, has wielded
the whole political, clerical, naval, military, and
legal power of the kingdom I Which has ap-
pointed no Judges—no Bishops—few Lords
Lieutenant, and still fewer Magistrates, except
such as were befouled with Toryism from the
crown of their heads to the sole of their shoes !
Conceive, we say, the organ of a party like this,
being foremost to cant about " influence, pa-
tronage, and so forth !
We have no extraordinary reverence for the
Whigs; but this we will say, that they must be
conjurors indeed, if they can find the means of
throwing away as much patronage even in twenty
years, as the Tories have lavished in ten. What
is the Local Courts Bill, or a dozen such Bills,
compared with the whole powers of the State,
which the Tories have wielded and wasted ever
since Lord ELDON was the height of his first
brief ? The very phrase " patronage" is synony-
mous with " Toryism." In all honest political
dictionaries, the latter should be always given
as an explanation of the former.

Our contemporary goes on to say, " Nothing
can be more erroneous than the supposition that
the Local Courts Bill is popular." Of course
he means among the lawyers; for to assert that the
people have a disrelish for cheap and expeditious
justice; a ha red of seeing it brought home to theirs
own doors, would be to write himself down an
ass—a confession which, however appropriate,
we do not suppose he would be in any hurry
to volunteer. But he is right as regards the
unpopularity of the measure among lawyers.
They do dislike it—bitterly dislike it—for it
narrows the field of litigation ; lowers the wages
and numbers of the reapers ; and stints the legal
harvest-home. The lowering of the Customs du-
ties was equally unpopular among the smugglers.
Will the Lords then persist in throwing out the
Local Courts Bill ? We hope not. Their object
in doing so is so evident—the motives so bare-
faced—that none but fools, or bigots, or mad-
men, would attempt it. The present are ticklish
times for Tory experiments. John Bull is no
Job now, whatever he may have been. The olu
fellow is become rough and surly ; he talks of
his rights, flourishes his oaken cudgel, and taps
his breeches pockets--sure signs that Toryism
no longer finds favour in his sight.
It is currently reported in certain quarters
that the Local Courts Bill will be thrown out

by a majority of four. But this depends en-
tirely on the Bishops. The game is in their
hands.

We understand that Captain NAPIER intends
to confine his operations, in the first instance, to
the blockade of the Tagus; but if a favourable
opportunity should present itself, lit will make
an attack upon the Miguelite squadron.

Marshal BOURMONT is said to have gone to
Spain, from whence he will proceed to join the
Nliguelite Army near Oporto. He intends, it
is supposed, to make a general attack upon that
City.

PL RIA LPA RLIAMENI

THIS DAY, TUESDAY, JULY .

HOUSE OP COMMONS.

The gallery was opened at twenty-fiVe minutes past twelve,
when we found above fifty Members in the House.
Lord ALTHORP moved the order of the day for the House
to go into Committee on the Tithe Commutation (England)
Bill.

Mr. JAMES wished to ask a question of the Noble Lord.
A good deal bad been said in that HOUse about the additional
assessments throughout the country, in consequence of many
of the poorer classes having claimed to vote under the Reform
Bill. Many of those persons had been hitherto exempted from
the house,tax, but had now been called upon to pay. This,
he thought, was an act of injustice towards the poorer classes,
as it was generally admitted that they already bore a greater
proportion of the burden of the house-tax than their richer
neighbours.

Mr. BARING submitted that the Hon. Member was out of
order in entering upon an argument, instead of at once
stating the question he wished to put.
Mr. JA'MES replied, that he had not taken up a single
moment in the House during the session, and he did not mean
to occupy the attention of the House but for a few moments.
The Noble Lord must have observed that the argument
against—(Order, and laughter.)
The SPEAKER—The Hon. Member certainly knows the
distinction between argument and statement—(Hear, and
laughter.) If he had any question to put to the Noble Lord,
he was in order in doing so; but he could not be permitted
to go into any argument upon a subject not before the House.

Mr. JAMES—He wished, then, to ask the Noble Lord if
his. Majesty's Ministers had authorized the assessments that had
been made; btit he did not think hat the House received him
fairly.
The SPEAKER would assure the Hon. Member that more
than ordinary fairness had bean exercised towards him.—
(Loud cries of" Hear, hear.")
Mr. JAMES apologised for the expression, and said he also
wished to know from the Noble Lord, whether his Majesty's
Ministers approved of the assessments having been so levied ?

Lord ALTHORP thought that it would have been
apparent to every one from the discussions which took place on
the Reform Bill, that all persons who clainted to vote as pro-
prietors or occupiers at 101. yearly value, Would be liable to be
rated,—(Hear.) It was a natural Consequence of their claim-
ing to vote, and it was not for his Majesty's Government to
say now whether it was right or not. He might say, however,
that the Government could have no right to dispense with the
assessments, but that such houses must be expected to be so
rated as long as the occupiers continued to claim the right of
Votl4
Mr. JAMES again rose, amid much murmuring, but sub-
mitted to the expressed opinion of the House.
On the motion that the order of the day be now read,
Mr. BARING said that 89 there *as so much important
business for determination in the present session, It might,
perhaps, save time, if he were to ask the Noble Lord whether
it was his intention merely to state his views on the question
before the House, and then postpone the matter until the next
session, or to pass any patt of the Bill in the preient session ?
Lord ALTHORP stated his intention to be, to omit every
part of the proposed measure which rendered conipulsory
the Conimutaticin of tithes. In the first place, the Bill would
make parties to contract together without restriction ; and
this part he intended to pursue. To the other portion of the
Bill there might be greater objection. It was the desire of
the Government to give genetal satisfacticin, and from what
he had heard he did not think that the whole measure was
likely to attain that object. (Hear, hear, hear.) He had no
wish, therefore,
.to persevere in that part which was generally
objected ft:pi and therefore wished to omit all the clauses after
the 12th clause, with the Oxception of two or three, which
were not so material.

Mr. BARING was of opinion that, seeing there were already
se many inipartailt subjects for odiiipikien in the Present Ses-
sion, and that this subject was also one of considerable im.
portance, it would be much bLAter to postpone the mea-
sure then before the House altogether to the next session.
It the noble Lord hid brotiglit ferWird a Bill that would have
properly and satisfactorily settled the question of a commuta-
tion of tithes, he should have been most glad to have given it
all the support in his power, but he was aware that the
Noble Lord had not had time to give the question all
that consideration which it required; otherwiSe he (Mr.
B.) knew there *as no man in that House better able
to give satisfaction on it. There was no doubt but
that the attention of the country had been called to the sub.
jest; but es the Bill had been in the hail& of Menibed eight
or ten days, he must deny that it had circulated so Widely
through the country as to excite such a spirit as to make it
unsafe to defer it, especially as it was then understood that
the Government did not mean to push it through that session.
The simple question was, Whether it would do any good to pass
the permissive part of the Bill, without At die acme
time passing the other. He very much doubted whether
the imperfect measure would be of any service.—
(Hear.) The, uniformity of the whole Systerii. Would be
destroyed by that patchwork manner Of doing business. It
would be much better to take the whole question into considera-
tion next session, than to take only half of it now, when
there were upwards of six different questions, of very great
importance, before the House in the middle of June. In fact,
it was an unprecedented thing for a Bill of such importance to
be fead a second time at three o'clock in the irioiiiiiig.:(Criei
of " No, no.") Well, then, it might be two o'clock, for he
had gone away at one, not at all thinking the Noble Lord
meant to press that stage of the Bill, upon which the principle of
it was usually discussed, at such a late hour ; indeed, even
had he waited be would have been met with that impatience
which was usually shown by a majority of that House to press
fOrward shy measure Of the Noble Lord's.--(No, no.) lie had
another reason why the whole subject should be deferred till
the next session,—that was a matter which was extensively
inquired into before the Committee upon agriculture; every
witness had been asked his opinion of the principle
()lithe Bill, and almitst all were opposed to it ? When such was
the case, when there *ere alsts *dry great ObjeetiotiS to it ill the
country, would it not be better to defer its consideration till the
House had a report from that Committee before it. He ob-
jected to the passing of the permissive clauses now, as though
ever so little was done under them (and he thought there
would not. be much) still that little would inipede the futufe
consideration and settlement of the question. He therefore
trusted that the Noble Lord would defer the subject till next
session, otherwise he should feel it to be his duty to move that
the Bill be committed that day six months.

Lord ALTHOItP said, as respected the reading of the Bill
at a late hour,he should riot have been astonished to have heard
the complaint from a new Member, but he confessed he was
so at hearing it from his Hon. Friend, who must be aware
that nothing was more common than when a Member wished
to strike out any part of his Bill, to move that it be committed
for that purpose. He had been very busy during the session,
but he had considered the question previous to the meeting of
Parliament, and of all the plans proposed he had come to the
conclusion that that then under consideration was the best.
He knew that there was great opposition to the compulsory parts
of the Bill, and therefore lie was not prepared to press them.
One plan that had been discussed up stairs was the proportion
of the rent; that certainly appeared to be a most excellent
mode of arrangement at first sight, but difficulties would oc-
cur in many instances rendering it almost impossible to know
what the rent was. He (Lord Althorp) admitted that the ob-
jections to the Bill were very great, and such as he
wished to yield; but in almost every instance, where he had
had conversations with parties upon the subject, they had stated
that they had no objections to the permissive part of the mea-
sure. It had been stated that the Bishop of the diocese could
not be a competent judge of the value of the tithe. In making
that statement, it must be remembered that that did not
lay with the Bishop alone, the patrols of the living having
also to inquire into that fact. In conclusion, the
Noble Lord stated that he could not see any reason for
giving up the permissive part of the Bill, though he would
the compulsory, and he, therefore, felt it to be his duty to
press the question forward to a Committee.

Mr. HERRIES thought that it would be more desirable to
let the subject alone for the present altogether, than to deal
with it by piecemeal. He trusted that the Noble Lord would
postpone the Committee altogetler to another session,
in • order to afford greater facaty of inquiry into the
subject. As he was upon his legs, he wished to know, for the
satisfaction of several members of Select Committees, whether
they might or not sit in consequence of the orders that had
lately passed ? One Committee was at present sitting under
the supposition that their proceedings were valid, but he much
doubted it.

Mr. BARING--After what he had just heard, said he would
withdraw his motion.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY said that he should have offered a seri-
ous objection to the measure had his Noble Friend persisted iii
attempting to carry it entire as it was. But the Bill as it now
stood was to be regarded only as a permissive measure—it
was only to enable parties to have a commutation for tithes—
if they should so think fit. The cumpulsory part, therefore,
was not to be acted upon. He (Sir M. W. Ridley) confessed
he could have wished that a single Bib had been brought in
before the present measure, which would have enabled the
tithe owners to commute with the tithe payers if they
had thought proper, before the Government had
pimped at such a Bill as was now before the House ;
but after the explanation that had been given by his Noble
Friend, it was to be hoped there would be no objection to the
measure, modified as it now was.

Mr. ESTCOURT would oe rtainly prefer a permissive

measure, which he understood the present Bill was
now to be considered to a measure such as was proposed
in the first instance, but he objected to a measure in a crude
and an unfinished state, being put on the statute book at all.
IC the Noble Lord had any well digsted measure to propose
which was likely to give' satisfaction of a permissive nature,
he (Mr. E.dcourt), would have to objection to its being
placed on the statute-book for a limited time, that a fair trial
might be given to it. hilt the present was by no means a
well digested measure. It was not calculated to give
satisfaction, and therefore he would oppose it in toto.
From the information he had bad from the country,
the country had certainly not expected that this Bill would
pass during this Parliament, and he hoped it would not in any,
shape whatever.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think the objections
made to the measure deserving of serious attention at this
stage of the business. When the Bill had got through
the committee, and came to be discussed by the House,
there mid be Very strong objections even to the
permissive part -of it, but this was not the period at which
such objections coati be urged. He did not expect any great
benefit to result from the 'Measure; at the same time he was
inclined to think that benefit Might accrue frOttl the passing of
the permissive part of the measure by the information subse-
quently to be received, and if the country did not object to it
(which he understood it did not) there ought to be no objec-
tion to it from any other quarter. With respect to a question
put by the Hon. Member opposite, respecting the sitting of
the Committees, notwithstanding the alteration in the air-
rangenient of business, the Committees were at liberty
to sit with the apprObaf lon of the House if they thought pro-
per, and their proceedings would of (ioilf.lC be valid.

Mr. HE ATHCOTE said, as he represented a large agricul-
tural district, he was anxious to say a few words. He agreed
with the Hon. Member for Essex, that it was the wisest course
for that Hon. Afeniber to Withdraw his amendment, and he
hoped the Noble Lord would lay aid permissive part of the
Bill on the table, in order that Hon. Members rniglit have an
opportunity to send copies to their constituents, which would
give time for ascertaining what was best to be done. He thought
the Noble Lord would do well to postpone even the
permissive part df the Bill until next Session, for
he could assure him, that at present the Bill had
created a great deal of diss tisfaction. He protested against
the plan of the Hon. Baronet (Sir M. W. Ridley) for making
a commutation of tithes for twenty-one years, because,
although every ode knew what the price of corn had been for
the last twenty-one years, riellody could tell what it might be
for a similar period in future.
An How. MEMBER (name unknown) suggested (as toe un-
derstood), that small cottagers should be exempted froth tithes,
which would afford that class and the small farmers great
relief. He hoped a clause would be introduced to that effect.
Mr. K. TYNTE hoped the Noble Lord would not post-
pone the whole, but only a part, of the Bill ; and that he
would assure the House and the country that the part
postponed would be taken into consideration very early in
next Session.---(Hear.) He could assure the House that in
some parts of the country there e2isteda strong disposition to
resist the payment of tithes altogether, add lie feared that if
the subject were not fearlessly and readily taken into consi-
deraaion, it would lead to the most disastrous consequences
Major BEAUCLERK coincided in the opinion expressed
by the Hon. Membef Who preceded him. As to the desire
expressed by the Noble Lord of meeting fully the wishes ofthe
people and the clergy, he felt confident that the Bill would not
effect that object, and, indeed, it could not be expected that
both the payer and receiver should feel satisfied. He hoped,
therefore, the Noble Lord would pursue a straightforward,
manly course, and, slot looking to the right or to the left,
would concodt such a gill as should be satisfactory to the
country at large.
An HON. MEMBER (name unknown) assured the House that
all the tithe payers in the eastern part of Cornwall were op.
posed to the Bill.
Another HONOURABLE MEMBER said that such a compli-
cated subject as tithes, and one in which the interests were
so various, the House could not legislate uniformly, and
at the same time justly. He would suggest the propriety
of a Commission to examine into those interests.

The °Met of the day was then read, and the House resolved
itself into a Committee, pr:o /amid. While the Chairman was
going through the usual forms.

An HON. MEMBER complained that he, :and those near him,
could not hear a word that was passing.
Lord ALTHORP said the Bill was merely going thro.:eb
the Committee proforma, with the understanding that no dis.
cussidn was to take place. All he asked was, to have the Bill
reported With the alterations he wished td Make in it, in order
that it should be printed, and afterwards Subjected to discussion.
The House then resumed, the report WAs bionglit up, the
Bill ordered to be printed, and to he taken into further consi-
deratidn this day se'nnight.

Lord G. SOMERSET Wished to draw the attention of the
House to a subject of great practical inconvenience. Mem-
bers were net able to infdrm themselves of what business was
to come on during the Morning sitting: It was understood
last night that the Bill for the better observance of the Lord'e
Day was to be brought on by the Hon. Member for Bodmiri
(Mt. Pet*), and it stood first on the day' list. Now, if only a
few Members were aiii&c whit business was coming on, a
great inconvenience would result from the want of an oppor-
tunity to discusS any particular measure.
The SPEAKER—The Noble Lord would observe, by re-
ference to the reguilations laid eldwn by the House, that no
irregularity had occurred.

Lord G. SOMERSET explained.
Mr. SLANEY—The House, he thought, should understand
the order of proceedings now adopted in consequence of the
new but excellent arreingerrient of holding morning meetings.
He understood that Government would take precedence in
these sittings, as in others; and that when there was no Go-
vernment measure hefore the House, the other orders of the day
would lie laketi riB the§ stood upon the ridtfce. Nothing, he con-
ceived, could be more convenient than that.--- (Hear.) But if
at as late an hour as two or three o'clock in the morning, some
Hon. Gentlemen chose to remain, and then propose that some
particular order of the day should take precedence of all others,
the consequence would be a great loss of time and prevention
of public business.
The SPEAKER said it was equally incdiivenient to proceed
with a discussion upon a matter which it was net cdmpetent for
the House then to determine. Three orders of the day had been
fixed for twelve o'clock that morning; and they must
be disposed of in turn, before any other business could be en-
tertained.—(Hear, hear.) The Order of the Day now for the
disposal of the House was, that the House do now go into
Committee on the Clackmannan and Kinross Parishes Bill.
Admiral ADAM; in the absence of the Hon. Member for
Norwich, moved that the reading of that order be deferred
until the evening sitting, which was agreed to.
Upon the motion of Mr. GODSON, the House Then went
into Committee on the Letters Patent Bill.

Mr. JERVIS proposed the postponement of the consideration
of that part of the Bill which contained the definition
of a patent, and moved an aitiendMetit accordingly.
Mr. LLOYD, as a Member of the Catittiittde, Would give
the amendment his most decided opposition. The detlnitldn
was the only really important part of the Bill, and had been
agreed to almost unanimously by the Committee. He was
sorry the Hon. Member who proposed the amendment had not
attended the theeting of the Committee, and heard the reasons
assigned for the adoption of the definitiOri.—(Hear, hear.) It
was almost unfair of that Hon. Member then to come
down to that House and oppose the definition by all
amendment which was nothing but unintelligible verbiage.
He hoped his Learned Friend would not press his motto:,
which, he was quite aware, would altogether lose the Bill.

Mr. BOTCH said he was aware why the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman wished to have the clause postponed--it was be-
cause he had another clause to propose, which he could
hot do unless he was successful in his present object.
No clause had received more attention•. in the Committee than.
the one under consideration, for they, knowing it to be the
almost vital one, had spent hours and days in drawing it up.
His Hon. and Learned Friend had said that the law as it at
present stood was clear and definite enough. Now how did
that stand Why the books showed that no two judges took
the same view of it,' which led to great difficulties.
Mr. J. JERVIS said, he did not mean to propose any new
clause, he would, when in after times great difficulty arose as
to the construction of the clause, feel that he had done his
duty in trying to render it more clear.
Mr. GODSON thought it was important, for the security of
inventions, that the law on the subject should be settled.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought the Bill would prevent the in.
crease of improvement in manufacture, and would be pro-
ductive of endless litigation.—(Hear, hear.) The Ho-
nourable Member, in conclusion, proposed that the further
consideration of the Bill should be postponed till the next session
and called upon the House on behalf of the manufacturers of
the. country, to coincide in his views. He was quite satisfied
that the whole county of Lancaster would rise up against it.
Mr. GODSON said twat lie had received letters from almost
every county in England, proposing an alteration in the
law on the subject of patents, but more especially from
Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds ; and he begged to remind
the Hon. Member that the present Bill was introduced not for
the manufacturer but for the inventor, who, for want of capital,
was lived upon by those who had it.

Mr. AOLIONBY begged to be understood as not
being an advocate for not paying ingenuity, but there
were daily taking place throughout the trade of the country
minor improvements, which he considered the present Bill
would have a tendency to check.
Mr. LLOYD observed that if he thought the tendency of
the Bill would be to injure manufacturers, he should be the
last man to support it; but he was convinced it would have a
directlycontrarytementsmade
by the Hon. Member who spoke last.
effect. He hoped, for the honour of the
county of Lancaster, that the House would receive a denial of
the sta
The House then resumed, and,the report was brought up,
and ordered to be taken into furtlio Ifisideration to. morrow.

ivir
OBSERVANCE OF THaoE LORD S DAY.

Mr. PETER having presented two petitions for the better
observance of the Sabbath, mover; the order of the day for the
second reading of the above Bill.
The order was then read.
Mr. PETER did not mean to occupy much time in explain-
ing the objects and importance of the measure which he was
anxious to introduce on the subject. Considering the im-
mense number of petitions from all parts of the country,
signed by all classes of the community for some amend-
ment of the law as to the observance of the Sab-
bath, he thought that the House would readily agree
with him in thinking that the time had arrived when
it should be so modified and remodelled as to render it
consistent with and conformable to the spirit of the k;e
in which we lived. Whether they looked at the Sab-