The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-25 00:00:00

declared that the laws of Great Britain know not the
name of slavery ; that every man who lives under the
British Crown is free. Did he ever state with regard
to the details of the measure, and to the adaptation of the

local laws to the new state of society—did he ever state
that the concurrence of the local legislatures was not ne-
cessary ? The Hon Member seemed to take his exceptions
at random. He (Mr. Stanley) entertained for him the
most unfeigned respect ; but could he imagine it possible
for them to legislate properly for eighteen separate colo-
nies, each having a different set of laws? If they passed
this Act in a spirit of defiance, the local legislatures would
have a thousand opportunities not only not to assist, but to
throw impediments in the way of the measure. If they
were to leave it entirely to the local legislatures, with the
hope that they would themselves proceed to abolish
slavery, they might reasonably doubt—they might fear—
they might more than doubt and fear—nothing could be
more certain than that they would not take those steps
which their own state required ; but when they had once
shown them that the step was inevitable—when they had
pointed cut to them the mode in which they were to pro-
ceed, and the manner in which the designs of Par-
liament should be carried into effect—when they were
informed that it was the determination of Parliament to
proceed with the measure in case of resistance, he was of
opinion that the matter might, in the first instance, be
left in the hands of the local legislatures, with whore
the filling up the details of the measure must necessarily
be left. Would any gentleman turn to the preamble of
the 17th clause of the Bill, and look at the different cir-
cumstances which had to be considered in every different
colony—he would then be able to tell whether it was
possible, at this late period of the session, to legislate pro-
perly upon the subject. He hoped the Hon. Member—he
hoped that every man in this country, felt the importance
of accomplishing the object of the Bill, provided it was
accomplished i❑ the most conciliatory manner to all par-
ties—giving the slave absolute freedom at no distant
period, leaving to the Colonial Legislatures, as far as
could be done, the grace of passing that Act, and giving
that compensation which, when the Home had deter-
mined upon granting emancipation, he was sure the House
would not refuse. In the next place, he would refer to
the question of apprenticeships, to which the Honourable
Member had not directly alluded. He had said that: this
Subject ought to he considered only with reference to the
negro, and not to the maser. He (Mr. Stanley) was of
opinion that the apprenticeships were as necessary for
the negro as they were for their masters. The Hon.
Member bad never himself advocated immediate eman-
cipation. His (Mr. F. Buxton's) opinion upon that
subject had bee❑ recorded in a speech in the year 1829,
and he must allow him to adhere to the same opinion as
he had then advanced. He trusted that the House
would sanction the apprenticeships as well as the com-
pensation. He trusted that the House would he too just,
not to say generous, to pass a resolution depriving the
planter of his property without granting him compensation.
He did not shrink from avowing that the plan of c.ppren•
ticeships formed part of the payment which it was intended
that the proprietors should receive. He was ready at the
same time to admit, that when Hon. Members assented
to the principle of apprenticeships they did not bind them-
selves to the time the apprenticeship should last. The
principle bad been asserted, but the duration had been left
vague and undetermined. Any Hon. 'Member, therefore,
was competent and free to vote for shortening the term of
the apprenticeship, provided be did not destroy or fritter
away the principle. There were two separate grounds
upon which they calculated the amount of compensation.
They had to pay down the value of the slave, the price of
one-fourth of his labour for twelve years, and for the entire
remission of all his labour after the expiration of the period
of twelve years. The sum taken had referere.e to the rate
of interest, and was consequently less than the value of the
negroes, because it would be paid twelve years before the
final extinction of slavery. In taking the value of the
negroes, thirty millions was probably a fir valuation.
Taking the number of slaves at 800,0001. that sum would
give an average of 371. 10s. a head. Its the variety of
particulars which had to enter into the calculation, it was
impossible on such a subject to be perfectly accurate; but
he would show that this was a tolerably near approxima-
tion. In the Commission for distributing the loan granted
by this House to the West Indians, one of the objects men-
tioned was, to take evidence on oath with respect to the
value of the slaves in the different islands. In the
island of Jamaica, on twenty-four estates, contain-
ing 5,000 negroes, the average value of each was
40/. In Barbadoes, the average was, in one case, 38/. ;
but generally speaking the average was between 40/. and
50/. on that island. In the five years ending in 1830, the
value, as ascertained by the books for the payment of
the taxes, gave, upon 472 slaves, an average of 35/. 10s.
In Trinidad, upon 331 slaves, the value averaged 361. 15s.
He made these statements only to show that his calcul 1-
tions could not be considered exorbitant, The average
which he had taken would make thirty millions, which
would have to be paid in twelve years; but it must he
borne in mind that the master lost one fourth of the slave's
time during these twelve years ; and therefore it was not
sufficient merely to pay down the value of the slave. He
did not hesitate to say, that the system of apprenticeship
formed part of the compensation by which the planter
was to be indemnified—

An Hole. INIEmBER (we believe Mr. O'Connell) here
asked a question which we could not catch.
Mr. STANLEY continued—The Hon. Member had
asked a short and pithy question.—(A cry of "Oh.") He
would tell him why the planter should be indemnified—
because the principles of justice require that no man's pro-
perty should he taken away without compensation—because
the laws of England forbid taking away a man's property
without the consent of the owner ; because in this case
the property would be taken away in a manner the
most offensive ; and, lastly, because, acting on the prin-
ciples of justice, the House had declared, that emancipa-
tion and compensation should go together. The question
was not about the principle of compensation, but about
its amount.—(The Right Hon. Secretary was repeatedly
interrupted by conversational remarks and questions, the
purport of which did not reach the gallery.) There was
great difficulty in ascertaining what the amount should
be, because the calculations depended upon a variety of con-
siderations, and a small mistake in a minute particular
would throw them all wrong. In the first place, they
were taking one-fourth of the negroes labour for his rims•
ter for twelve years, leaving him at the same time the
whole charge of his maintenance for three-fourths of his
work. The expense of keeping 800,000 negroes, he
thought, would not be overstated if he reckoned it at
21. 10s. a head, making thus 2,000,0001. a year fur twelve
years. The amount would thus be swelled up to an
enormous extent; and at least one-fourth of that ought
to he saved by the master. The next consideration was
the deduction which ought to be made for the sum to be
paid, depending upon the rate of interest in consequence
of the money being advanced immediately. If the rate
were 10 per cent., making allowance for the advances for
the support of the slave, that would give 3,406,0001. ;
if eight per cent., 3,768,0001. ; if six per cent.,
4,900,0001. If they were to t ike six per cent. as the
rate of interest, and to take his calculation of the value
of the negroes at 371 10,. a head, giving altogether
30,000,0001., the sum which they would have to pay
would be 27,000,000/. as representing that which had
been taken from the master. If they took the value of
the slaves at 24,000,000/., and the interest of money 10
per cent., the sum to be paid would be 15,000,0001.,
allowing for the maintenance of the slave in the mean-
time. The Right Hon. Secretary ,Mr. Stanley) went
into several other calculations, for the purpose of showing
the grounds upon which Ministers had proceeded in de-
termining the amount of the compensation. The Hon.
Member had asserted that the negro would not work
without some stimulus or another, whether by sufficient
wages, or by personal coercion. He blamed the present
scheme, because it neither supplied the one nor the other.
In a great degree, Mr. Stanley contended, it supplied
both. It took away the capricious exercise of the master's
authority—it preventA vengeance ; but it did not debar
the master from exercising a summary jurisdiction over
the slave, though it provided that the punishment should
take place in cool blood, and before a Magistrate. He
wished to know how many apprentices there were here
who laboured with no stimulus of hope or fear?
Mr. FRYER here observed, that in this case there was
a contract.
Mr. STANLEY continued—There was a contract,
bur it was not entered into with their consent. They
o ere hound either by their parents, or, if they had none,
by the parish officers. Like the slaves or apprenticed
labourers, as they were now to be, these had neither
punishment nor wages ; and it was rather an extraordi
nary position taken by the Hon. Member for Weymouth,
when he contended that it was necessary to flog men
within an inch of their lives, or give them ample wages,
in order to induce them to work. Looking at the ques-
tion as prudent practical men, was not the House bound
to see that the slave should not make that sudden and vio-
lent transition from slavery to freedom which would ruin
all who had embarked capital in the West Indies! :Was
it not better to sacrifice some of their abstract principles
rather than expose themselves to such consequences?
They ought to be exceedingly cautious how they con-
ducted an experiment, the magnitude of which had never
been equalled. Let them see how the proprietors consider
the question of apprenticeships. One and all declared,
that if the negro did not give a certain portion of his
labour, they must give up the cultivation of their estates;