The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P IRIAAMENT.

HOUSE OF CO V.VONS. June 4.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
SCHOOL ESTABLISHMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord MELGUND moved the second reeding of this
Bill. His reason for doing so was a conviction which
he entertained that the means at present existing in
Scotland for the education of the people were not so ex-
tensive as they were supposed to he, or as was necessary.
The system of education to b,, established under this Bill
would be supported by local taxation, and placed under a
certaia amount of local management. The system which
he wished to see created was that which the people them-
selves could superintend the working of, and be was most
anxious that nothing should creep into this Bill which
should seem to indicate that the Legislature wanted to
specify what should, and what should not, be taught.
His own opinion, however, was, that religious and secu-
lar education ought to be separated, and Dr. Chalmers
had often propounded the doctrine that any legislative
measure for regulating the education of the people should
be entirely divested of the religious element.—(Hear.) At
present there were some 5 000 schools in Scotland, and of
that number 1,800 were unconnected with any religious
sect. The Noble Lord then briefly reviewed the legis-
lation of past ages on this subject, and proceeded to ob-
serve, the population of Scotland was about 3,000,000.
Now, allowing five children for every thousand would
give 600,000 as the number of children in Scotland.
Two hundred thousand of those were educated in
schools belongieg to the Free Church, and allowing
100,000 as the number educated by the schools uncon-
nected with any sect, they would have a clear result of
300,000 children at present in Scotland whose education
was totally unprovided for. The object of this Bill WB3
to remove that vast extent of moral destitution, and the
mode by which he proposed to attain it was easy of
acquisition, simple iu its operation, and comparatively
speaking inexpensive. He would not detain the Hoa
longer, but appealing to the House to give the Bill their
beat consideration, he would sit down moving its second
reading.—(Hear. hear.)
Mr. F. MACKENZIE deplored with theNobilne Lordthe amount of moral destitution that prevailed
Scot-
land, but he thought the means of
be.ducattihone could be
greatly extended without
hcletaetruj)
disturbing
gNo one could
system.—(Cries of
dispute successfully "rhaerlegielatien was nectissery
in
on the subject, because it was high' time that something
was donenor the education of children Scotland, but
the question was far too important to be It ft in the
hands of a private Member. It would be much
better, therefore, that this Bill should be aban-
doned, and the whole question referred to the
consideration of a Select Committee. The session was
too far advanced to admit of that beingdone now, but
there was no hurry required in framing their legislation
on the subject, and the question mist well be taken up
tee at the beginning of next seesion,
age. He objected to
this Bill oa the ground that it would effect en entire dis-
ruption between the parish schools and the Church of
Scotland, and alter the mode of electing the school-
mestere. It was proposed to throw their election into
the hands of the ratepayers, and he was very much
afraid if that protease! ;etre ultimately adopted it woule
prove fatal to soy system of education. In the next i
place he objec4d to the Bill, because it made no provi-
sion for religious insteuction; and he should therefore
move that the Bill be read a eecond time this day six
imeelhe—(H,ar, hear.)
M.r. HUME thanked the Noble Lord for the trouble
he had taken in promoting this all. Ut all things
which tee House had neglected that which related to the
education of the people it h id neglected the most, and it
really was the dioy of the Ho -se nob to establish some
effective legitietieu ou the subject. The Hon. Gentle-
men who opposed this Sall said he did so because it
would teperate education fr,,ra the Church; but the
Hun. Member forgot that hitherto the duration of the
people had beau entrusted to the Church, and how wee-
ftthy it had betrayed its trust ries to be found in the fact
th it two-thirds of the children of Scatlaed were totally
destitute of education.—(flear.) Sixty or seventy years
ago the people were far better eduetted titan they were
now, and he needed no other proof than that to convince
him that the time had arrived wizen a ralicel chen"e
should be male in the system. The duty of the school.
master and sae clergyman ought to he seperatee, and he,
for one, felt indebted to the Noble Lord for having made
this effort to accomplish that object.
Mr. C. BRUCE was quite ready to extend education
in Scotland. but if the opinions and wishes of the pe tple
of Scialand were to influence the House, this Be. ought
to be rej, twee. The existing system of education had
coneerred great benefits upon the people of Scotland,
and they 'sere therefore opposed to a Bill wnich pro-
posed to overturn it. If there was one qutstian upon
which the minds of the people of Scotland were ma le
np, it was this—they were determined that the reli
gtoue and secular education of their children should not
be separated; and he could nut believe that either the
House or the Government would be guilty of the injus-
tice of passing this Bill in defiance of their wishes and
opinions.
The LORD ADVOCATE thought that, at all events,
the course of the debate hail shown that there existed
great ntcessities ter the enlargement of the means of
education in Scotland, and for itemediete inquiry into the
proper me hod for carrying this out. This was admitted
on all sides of the itieuse. He himself should rec rd his vote
for the second reading of the Bill, because ho thought it
wou'd show that he was ready to do something fzr the
relief of this want, and he thought the Noble Lord was
entitled to the best :hanks of his country for bringing
forward the measure. As to the objection which had been
urged against the 3ill, that it was ietecded to subvert
the parochial sett:eel, he thought that was easily answered
by the fact, that beyond the range of the present system
there lay a mass of ignorance which they could not deal
with. As far as religious education went, he was glad
to rind that the Bill did not exclude religion from its
scheme, because in that cese he could not have supported
it. Ho could river consent to exclude religion from
education systematically, except in those cases where it
would really prevent any education at ail being given.
The establishment del not number na we than half what
was called orthodox Presbyterians, and that being the
case, was it reasonable to say that they should exclude
those who did not belong to the establishment, though
they adhered to all its formulas? Fueling there was no
greater foe to tho moral end political progress of the
people than ignorance and deficient means of education,
he should give :tin cordial vote for the second reading of
the Bill.—(Hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS objected to taking away the duty and
privilege which belonged to the Church of Scotland, as
well by its social position as by direct Act of Parlia-
ment, via, the instrucion of the whole people of Scot-
land. It was the only Church which the State ac-
knowledged ia that country, and it had a solemn
duty committed to it, which it had hitherto
fulfilled, and if the House desired to extend educa-
tion in the country, let the duty of the Church
be increased rather than place it in the hands of others.
All the intelligence and the superiority of the Scotch
people were to be attributed to the present parochial
system of education. Leek at the number of phi-
losophers, historians, and poets. to which Scotland had
given birth, who not only adorned their native land,
but exalted the a hole empire. In the small district of
Westerkirk, in Duinfriesshire, containing only a populat
lion of 600, Sir John, Sir Pulteney, Sir Janes, and Sir
Charles Malcolm, had received their education, and
could the House point, in any other part of her Majesty'.
dominions, to one pariah-school which c Mild produce
such 'nee? If the present system had been productive
ef such great re the Fletite e:tht not dmlish
it without having sults
'seine betteru reason.t fore doing
11,7341h:11 those eleged by the Noble Lord.—(l-lea”.)
tly derited that there were. defect» of detail in the
eXiSting syste
Nor did he but was that a reason for abolishing it?
in tuanlspute that there was a great want of edu-
cationjoieed to see that
of Scotland, tind he should be re-
expttcavtant supplied, but he could not consent
to it at the
of education oughtetoof"ll4i°" principle. All system
people for its object,atat have the godly bringing up of the
and the greatness of Scotland as
a nation was
the education of attributable to the fact that
that principle. It
cevaßrarsiepdeqoupiltee was based upon
clear to him that
if this Bill were
religion would become
a secondary consideration in the education of th
600,000 children, to whom the Noble Lord had referred,°
Mr. lt,lACGß,seiltlowou
and be thereforeEcGalole
Rd utphoonugthhet
tilh
josu
Brejectldnonfer a
great boon upon Scotland, and he wen q
word
itahfiaetdould
had
ah
de
well thinking portion of the Scottish community w
agree with him. Agreeing with every w
fallen from the Lord Advocate of Scotland, he should
give his hearty support to the Bill.
Mr. COWAN was satisfied that without religions
could be prosperous or happy, teaching no country Y, but
no testa could secure religious education, and he
therefore hoped the test system that now prevailed
in Scotland would be speedily abolished. With
regard to the Bill itself, he highly approved
of it, more especially as it made provision
for providing a higher standard of excellence in
those who wore entrusted with the education of youth.
In his estimation that was the most important part of the
Bill, and he trusted it would receiveand the best attention
ultimate sanction of the House. The present pa-
rochial system
of this Bill would have not
so
perfectbelieve, for those who
had the management
the House
as the opponents
qualifications of those
too often neglected. o examine the
of parish schoolmaster,
etewhom they appointed to the office
additional rea-
son for his supporting trit:nd.ll.
that was an
Mr. CHARTERI
the result of the division not pretend to say what
but he entreated the House
the Bill wouldfo be,.t
overthrow a system which nowto pause .
fb re
toi
Scotland, for the sake of replaeme -lave Sat" s°'l°n• e
with a plan, which
as yet was untried, and which,hel would undertake to
say, would eventually prove unauccessful.—(Hear, hear.)
The supporters of the Bill themselves admitted that
its details were defective ; and
they were so, it would be
ho could not help
next session. much
thinking, that while
better to postpone the auestion till
The
eriminal returns of Scotland satisfied him that the pre-
sent parochial system was sound and good at bottom;
that there was room for improvement in its details he
was far from denying, but, at the same time, he was
very much afraid that the plan proposed by the Bill to
be substituted for it would turn out to be far more ob-
jectionable, without removing these sectarian differences
which the Noble Lord seemed to desire.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL entirely concurred in what
had fallen from the Lord Advocate, and he should not
have felt called upon to address the Howe had it not
been for toe speech of the Honourable Mt 'ether
for the University. The Honourable Baronet
seemed to be under the deluseen that th is
Bill would embrace only the secular ire truction of the
people. Now it was not the intention of the framers of
the Btu tettuclude religion, education from their plan,
but before religious element should be mixed
up with 'the *secular the local tatepeyere should
be required te give its sanction to such
a proceeding. It was not disputed that fur-

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