The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-29 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

Mr. OSBORNE presented petitions from Kensingi on,
Knightsbridge, and the neighbourhood, praying that the
Crystal Palace might be retained; also a petition from
St. Luke's in favour of coroners being paid by salary
instead of by fees.

Mr. R. PALMER presented a petition from Maielen-
head, Berkshire, in favour of the retention of the Cry stal
Palace.

Sir B. HALL presented a petition from Marylet one
complaining of the inefficiency of the Board of Sew° rs.
Mr. GEORGE DUNCAN presented a petition fi •om
the fish-curers in the district of Fraznburgh. !filo
petitioners state that great benefit, in a national poin t of
view, has been derived from the creation of the
Fishery Board in Scotland, and the satisfactory resnits
have only been equalled by the very great increase of
production, the capital invested, and the great number
of inhabitants to whom the fisheries gave employment ;
and they pray that this House will continuo the ;said
Board of Fisheries for Scotland.
THE CASE OF ANN HICKS.

Mr. B. OSBORNE asked the First Commissioner of
Woods and Forests, whether Ann hicks held a hems i in
Hyde-park by the gift of George IL, or by what tent ire
she occupied the house from which she had been evicted.
Lord SEYMOUR said in answer to the first question
of the Hon. Member—whether Ann Hicks held a house
in Hyde-park by the gift of George IL—ho had to state
that she did not hold any house in the park by the gift
of George 11., or by the gift of any other Royal person-
age.—(Hear, hear.) The first time he ever heard
of her claiming to be entitled to a house in Hyde-
park was about two weeks ago, when he save an
account of her case in the newspapers. The way
in which she had obtained possession of the house, was
as follows :—ln 1843 Mrs. Hicks, like many other per-
sons, had a little stall in the park, where she sold apples
and ginger-beer. Before this she had occupied or kept
an old conduit in the park, but this was pulled down,
and in 1843 she wrote to the Commissioners of Woods
and Forests, and requested to have a place in which she
might lock up her ginger-beer bottles.—(A laugh.)
After some correspondence the Commissioners toldt her
she might have a wooden stand, such as those at the
cow-stands in St. James's-park. Shortly after-
wards she wrote again, and said she was -very
much obliged to them for the wooden stand, but
would like very much to have one made of brick, as
the other was liable to be broken open. On this subject
she renewed her applications, but in none of them did
she once allude to any royal gift, but always dwelt upon
having fifteen children.—(A laugh.) After the lapse of
some time the Commissioners allowed her to make' a
brick, instead of a wooden stand.—(Elear, hear, from
Colonel Sibteorp.) See then again wrote, stating that
her stand was not quite large enough, and that it must
be increased in aizl, she bad so many ginger-beer
bottles.—(Loud laughter.) After receiving several
petitions on the subject, tne Commissioners gave way so
far, that they allowed her to have a stand five feet high,
but no higher. In the following year she wrote again,
saying that she was very much obliged to them
for her little hut, which was a great conve-
nience to her— (A laugh)—that she did not wish
to make a residence of the hut, but that if they would
allow her a little fire-place, it would be of great use to
her, and allow her to make a cup of tea.—(A laugh.)
The Commissioners told her that they would not on any
account allow a fire place or a chimney of any
kind to be erected, and that they had no
objection to the roof being repaired. However, when
he (Lord Seymour) came into office, in 1850, the hut
had not only had a new roof and a chimney, but had got
a little garden around it.—(Hear, hear, and lautehter.)
His attention was first directed to the subject in con-
quence of the frequent collisions which took place
between Mrs. Hicks and the park authorities, in con-
sequence of the former advancing the hurdles in front
of the dwelling ; and he was informed that when
they were placed back by the park authorities Cure
was always great noise, abuse, and clamour.
Thinking:,
however, that an unfavourable ac-
count might have been given of her conduct
by the officers, he requested a gentleman of great
experience in tho park, but unconnected with the
office of Wood!' and Forests, to inquire into the
matter, and he gave an account equally unfavourable
to Mrs. flicks. He then considered that it was time
some proceedings should be taken, because
the House must be perfectly aware that any such en-
croachments on the park were entirely illegal; and he
Was told, besides, that if the encroachments were
sanotioe.ed for a few years there would be
greater difficulty in removing her.—(Hear, hear.)
Before adopting any proceedings he wrote to the
Duke of Wellington as ranger of the park, and the
nuke. after paying that degree of attention to his com-
munication which he did to every subject of importance,
intimated that he entirely concurred in the
I'm' that the erection ought to be removed
from the
was then served with • "
with a notice.
soon as possible. She
told her that if sheallo would leave' park he would take
care that somee(-Lord Seymour)
plied that it bas
was made to her, but she re-
she would not remove.
w her own ground, and that
were Finding, however, that the au-
thoritiesdetermined to, pull down the hut,
she ultimately removed. As she said she owed some-
thing for the repair of the
to her to discharge the debt, some money was given
the next
he allowed her ss. a
week for house-rent during
neepitxtair year. The person to
whom the money was owing for repairing the roef called
upon him (Lord Seymour), and elated that
given
herthi at Mrs. Hicks
bad spent the sum he bad
Thieirintling bills
and placarding them about the park.
buildings erected in the park were the modeloa lyod gi ot hger
classes, near the cavalry bar-
racks, for the labouring
which the Commissioners had allowed to be
built by Prince Albert, on condition that his Royal
Highness undertook to remote them at the end of a cer-
tain period.—(Heer.)
In reply to Lord DUDLEY STUART,
Lord SEYMOUR said that no cottage was erected on
the spot occupied by Mrs. Hicks previous to 1842.
Mr. WAKLEY wished to know whether she would
.el
have been ejected if the Cryst Palace had not been
raised?—(Hear, from Col. Sibtnorpe. )
Lord SEYMOUR said her ejection had nothing to do
with the Crystal Palace.
VENTILATION OF THE NEW HOUSE.
Mr. OSBORNE asked whether it was not the case
that instructions had bean issued to Dr. Reid, which
prevented him from ventilating the new House of Com-
mons in the manner ho desired? Perhaps the Bon.

Member;(Mr.Greene) would also state whetherit was in-
tended to decorate the House with additional heraldic
devices?
Mr. GREENE replied that some degree of change was
necessary in the ventilation of the building in conse-
quence of alterations in the architect's design, but no
special instructions had been issued, which at all affected
the plan of Dr. Reid. As to the other question, it was
intended (as we understood the Hon. Member) to place
the arms of the different Speakers beneath the gallery
above the chair, and the arms of the different corpora-
tions and towns in the compartments under the Members'
galleries.
Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to know if the sittings of
the House during the remainder of the session were to
be held in this House, as Members were put to great
inconvenience in consequence of having to go so far to
the library when they desired to consult any books or
journals.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was desirable that the remaining sittings should be held
in this House, as they would then have an opportunity
of ascertaining what additional alterations would be re-
quired in the new House.
Mr. WAKLEY observed that the atmosphere of the
House last night was injurious to health.—(Hear.)
Unless some alteration were made they could not sit
there without actually endangering their lives. He
understood no provision had been made for the ventila-
tion of the House. Some Members must have suffered
from the bad state of the atmosphere.—(Hear.) He
therefore hoped they would resume their sittiugs in the
old House until some arrangements wero made for
the ventilation. While on this subject ho would suggest
that the green baize which shut out the ladies' gallery
from the House should be removed, and that ladies
should be treated like other strangers, and not, like wild
animals, be shut up in a eage.—(Laughter.)
MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
METROPOLITAN SEWERS BILL.
Oa the motion for going into Committee on this Bill.
WAKLEY rose to move a; an amendment that
the Bill be committed this day six months. The me-
tropolis had much cause to complain that
a large and comprehensive measure upon this subject
had not been brought in by the Government.
This Bill proposed to continue for twelve months an
expensive and useless board, whose proceedings had
hitherto been exceedingly mischievous. The board was
perfectly irresponsible, and paid no attention whatever
to public opinion. The income of the Commission last
year was 90,0001., of which 77,0001. was derived from
rates, and 13,000/. from contributions, while
the expenditure amounted to no less than
1,259,000/., and of which 23,463/. was for
the cost of management. Rather than this board should
continue the metropolis would be content to have only
one responsible managing commissioner, and he there-
fore hoped the House would not proceed further with
this Bill.

WILLIAMS seconded the amendment. The
whole of the inhabitants of the metropolis looked upon
this board as a job, and Government had no right to
force it upon them for even; a day longer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
this Bill was only intended to be of a temporary cha-
racter, as the whole subject of the water supply and the
sewerage of the metropolis was now under the conside-
ration of a Committee, and the result of that inquiry,
was likely to lead to the production of a large and com-
prehensive measure on the subject. Under those circum-
stances, nothing would be more inexpedient than to
throw out this Bill, which was simply brought forward
to give the House and the Government ample time for
devising some new system of managing the sewers of
the metropolis.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said the argument of the Right
Hon. Gentleman would be very good, if it were in-
tended to continue the present Act. The fact, however,
was that the Bill did no such thing. It was a new Bill,
to reduce the quorum of the board from six to two, :and
to empower the Government to pay the head commis-
sioner a selery of 1,000/. a year. The present Com-
missioners had no time to attend to the business of the
Commission, and he objected to the Bill continuing
the Commission over fur another year, at an expanse
of 1,0001. It would be much better to continue the old
Act, and then begin in good earnest to reform the
system next :spring.
Lord DUDLEY STUART wished to obtain some
information with regard to the Victoria sewer. He
wanted to know what was the original estimate of the
sewer; secondly, the contract price; and thirdly, the
actual cost. He was decidedly opposed to this Bill, be-
cause it had been brought in at so late a period of the
session. They were told that it was too late now to
hope to pass any other Bill but this, and therefore they
must pass it. The whole of the metropolis was crying
shame upon the Government for their misconduct in re-
ference to these sewers, and yet they had the temerity to
introduce a Bill to reduce the quorum of the Commis-
sioners to two, and enable them to pay some official
1,0001. a year.
Viscount EBRINGTON said it was a gross misre-
presentation to say the present Commissioners had
squandered the money of the ratepayers in executing use-
less public works. If the Commissioners bad not done
everything that was desirable, at least they were not liable
to the wholesale imputations which had been heaped upon
them. Tho Noble Lord then proceeded to relate the
history of the Commission, which he said was nomi-
nated by the Lord Chancellor. It was calculated that
under the old system no less than 240,0001. of
the public money was wasted owing to the de-
fects in the plans aad levels from which the
sewers were constructed, and immediately that the
existing Commission came into the charge they set to
work in reforming and amending the plans until they
succeeded in obtaining a comprehensive and accurate
survey of the whole metropolis. The result was that a
great saving was effected in the sewer expenditure, and
the rates were reduced 7s. in the pound, at which
they stood in 1847, to something under 4..
in the pound. W hen the Commissioners were first
appointed they entered upon their duties by restoring
order in the sewers' office, and propounding two great
schemes for an arterial survey of the metropolis. The
underground survey was complete, while the Ordnance
survey only required four streets to be added to make
it complete. The block plan was also in a state of great
forwardness. While these preliminary plans were beicg
prepared, great complaints were made against the Com-
missioners for not entering upon actual sewer
works, but the Commissioners did nut allow any public
clamour ►o drive them into the commencement of works
upon insufficient data. Directly however their plans were
matured] they entered upon the construction of works,
and up to the 26th of July works had been executed to
the extent of 200,000/., while work to the ex-
tent of 150,0001. were in the course of
construction, thus making the total value of the
works which the Commission had undertaken during

the nineteen months in office amount to 350,0001. The
benefit which the public derived from those works might
easily be estimated when he told the House that the
present Commissioners executed their works at about
half the cost of the old Commissioners. He had been
asked three questions about ;the Victoria :sewer by
an Honourable Member who had preceded him,
and in reply to those questions h© begged to state
that the estimated cost of that sewer was 8,2724 the
contract price was 7,7001., and the actual cost up to the
present time was 12,3601. The probable cost at its
completion would be 13,5061. Many of the works of
the Commission remained in a state of abeyance, owing
to a technical defect in the Act of Parliament, which
prevented the Commissioners from raising money by
way of loans. Government was applied to for assist-
ance in the difficulty. Government, however, declined
to render them any assistance, and the Commissioners,
therefore, had no alternative but to put up with public
odium, and levy rates whenever works were required to
avert disease or promote the welfare of the poor. As for
the charge of corruption, which had been brought for-
ward by the Hon. Member for Lambeth, be would not
condescend to refute it; he had often challenged Hon.
Members, who had thrown out insinuations against the
Commission to move for a Committee to inquire, r.nd
they themselves knew best why they had not done so.
He could not help complaining that the Commissioners
had not received that support from her Majesty's Go-
vernment which at the commencement of their task had
given them courage to undertake it. He acknowledged
the deep interest which the heads of the Government
took in the sanitary reform, but they had been too
studious to conceal their real views on the subject of
sanitary reform. _ _ .

Sir B. HALL could not see what relation the
statement of the Noble Lord had with the sub-
ject before the House. At any rate his speech
had had one effect, and that was to damage
the cause which be had risen to support. The
Noble Lord had taken great credit to the Com-
missioners and himself for having reduced the per-
centege from 7s. to 4g., whereas, in truth, the rates had
been actually increased from 3d. to 4d. in the pound.
The chief occupation of the Commissioners had been,
in fact, more to write letters to different parts of the
country instead of occupying themselves with practical
affairs. He thought, however, after the sins of this
Commission they had great reason to complain that the
Bill to renew its powers had been brought in at so late
a period of the year. However, in this case, he thought
the best thing they could do would be to tie the hands of
the Commission as much as they could, and not allow it
to raise rates beyond a certain amount. He could only
apply to the present Commissioners those epithets which
he had applied to their predecessors, that they were " an
inefficient and incompetent body," and the sooner they
were annihilated the better for the inhabitants of the
metropolis.
Mr. HENLEY thought the Noble Lord opposite had
been very unfortunate in the attacks which he bad
made on his: predecessors, because, in fact, figures
showed that in eighteen or nineteen months the rates of
Westminster bad risen under the auspices of the Noble
Lord and his fellows from aid. to 9d. in the pound. He
did not think either that the Noble Lord had given any
satisfactory account of the labours in which they had
occupied their time. With regard to the Bill before the
House, he thought it would have been much more satis-
factory if it bad been to continue the Commission simply
for a year without any attempt to give pow era to it for
rating beyond a certain limit.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was astonished at the objec-
tion made to the appointment of a Commissioner pro-
posed by the Bill, who should be salaried, and be in
constant attendance to wind up the affairs of the Com-
mission. That, in his opinion, was the chief merit of
the Bill. They were all agreed that it was necessary,
in order to bring the affairs of the Commission to an
issue, to renew it for a year, and be therefore could not
see what objection there could be to pass the Bill.
After
o
_r a short conversation
M,
. WABLEY replied, and the gallery was cleared
for a division, but ne
Bill,took place, and the House went
Mr. WAKLEY
into Committee on
the
eved the omission of clause.l, ap-
pointing Mr. BERNAL in the chair.
WILLIAMSman
xtr, yir ehair
seconded the motion.

The Committee then divided, when there appeared
For the clause
Against it '2 1
••• ••• •••

Majority —l4
then The clause was agreed to.
On clause 2, giving a salary of 1,0001. to the Chairman,
Sir B. HALL moved the rejection of the clause.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
Against it ... ••• ••• •" 22
Majority ..• —l3

The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 3 was agreed to.
On clause 4,
Mr. WAKLEY moved that the Chairman do report
progress, in order to give time to the inhabitants of the
metropolis to make themselves acquainted with the pro-
visions of the Bill.
After a short conversation the Committee divided,
when there appeared—
For reporting progress ... ... 7
Against it ... ... 50
Majority ... ... —43
The motion was consequently lost, and the clause was
then agreed to.
On clause 5,
Mr. HENLEY moved to insert, " Provided also that
no rate or rates amounting to more than threepence in
the pound shall be made by the said Commissioners."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion, on the ground that if it were carried the
Commissioners would be unable to olear off their arrears
of debt.
After a short conversation,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL agreed to the motion.
The words were then inserted.
Mr. HENLEY then proposed another amendment, the
object of which was to deprive the Commissioners of
all power to borrow money.
The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion on the same ground as ho opposed the
former proposition of the Hon. Member.
After a short conversation the Committee divided,
when there appeared—
For the amenament 33
Against it
Majority —ll
The clause was then agreed to.
The remaining clauses of the Bill were then agreed to,
and the House adjourned at Half-past Four to Half-
past Six.

The House resumed at Halt-past Six o'clock, and was

(LEFT SITTING.)

THE LONDON GAZETTE.

(THIS EVENING.)

DOWNING-STREET, JULY 29, 1851.

The Queen has been pleased to appoint Henry Samuel
Chapman, Esq., to be Colonial Secretary for the island
of Van Dieman's Land.

Her Majesty has also been pleased to appoint Thomas
Falconer, Esq., to be Colonial Secretary for the terri-
tory of Western Australia.
OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, JULY 25.

Corps of Royal Engineers—Lieutenant-Colonel Alex-
ander Brown to be Colonel, vice Vavasour, deceased;
Captain Montgomery Williams to be Lieutenant-Colonel;
Captain John Hawkshaw to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice
Brown; Second Captain Andrew Beatty to be Captain,
vice Hawkshaw; First Lieutenant Fairfax Charles Has-
sard to be Second Captain, vice Beatty; Second Lieute-
nant George Montagu Stopford to be First Lieutenant,
vice Hassard, July 14.
_

MEMORANDIIM.—The date of the commissions of the
under-mentioned officers has been altered to the sth of
July, 1851 ; viz.:—Colonel Blanshard, Lieutenant-
Colonel Wolff, Captain Hamley, Second Captain Sim,
First Lieutenant Fisher.