The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-03 00:00:00

iteration of this measure till next session, believing
that, so far from having a beneficial result, it would
have just the reverse, and lead to a great deal of
mischievous agitation throughout the country. The idea
of dividing the bill, as proposed by the noble earl, had not
escaped the attention of his Majesty's Ministers ; but after
due consideration it was thought unadvisable. He believed,
too the noble earl was mistaken in supposing that that house
had the power of originating measures upon either bastardy
or settlement, as he supposed. (Hear, hear.) He hoped
the house would enter calmly and deliberately into the con-
sideration of this measure, which was the most important he
had seen introduced since he had entered Parliament, nearly
half a century. Even should it be necessary for their lord-
ships to extend their sitting to a late period of the year he
hoped they would diligently apply themselves to the con-
sideration and discussion of this measure. The provisions
of the bill would more properly come under discussion at a
later stage ; and to this principle he believed no objection
erns entertained. The noble earl certainly had expressed
an opinion that the present state of the poor laws did not
call for interference on the part of the legislature. It might
be true, and no doubt it was, that the evils complained of
arose in a great degree from the mal-administration of the
poor laws, and that improvement had taken place within
the last one or two years ; but those circumstances did not
absolve them from the duty of adopting any measures they
thought would be advantageous. He must repeat, that
after the time the subject bad already been under considera-
tion, after the length of time the report of the poor law
commissioners had been before the public, and the full discus-
sions had in the other House of Parliament upon the sub-
ject, he did not feel disposed to postpone the second reading
of this bill beyond the day he had named.
The Marquis of SALISBURY thought that they could
not possibly have time to read through a bill with ninety
clauses in it by Monday next, se as to come to the dis-
cussion with a proper understanding of the subject. He
hoped the noble earl would consent to a postponement to
Friday week.
The Duke of RICHMOND observed that, if the
noble marquis's proposal were adopted, there would be no
time to consider the bill in committee. When they allowed
the bill to be read a second time they adopted nothing but
ita principle. What was the principle of this bill ? The
great object of the bill was to reinstate the labourers in
the condition in .which they were some years ago, so that
they might gain their livelihood by their own honest indus-
try, instead of being dependent upon parish relief as
paupers. The bill did not go so far as the Poor Law
Commissioners recommended. He hoped it would be read
a second time on Monday. If postponed to Friday week
many of their lordships would be out of town.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said that if he thought
the principles of the bill were what the noble earl had re-
presented he should be as anxious as he was for its speedy
passage through the house, and so he was sure would
every noble lord ; but he could not look upon that as the
real principle of the measure. Judging from the number
of clauses devoted to that object, he could help consider-
ing this as a bill to establish a set of commissioners to
take the management of the poor out of the hands of
their natural guardians, and give it to them. Such a
principle might be good, but it struck him, and the public
also, that much greater powers were given than ►ere ne-
cessary. It would be two or three days before the bill
worild be printed, and it would take a long time to read
with proper attention.
The Earl of MALMESBURY observed that his ob-
jection applied to the bill's being proceeded with this ses-
sion. If it was to be gone through with this session, the
sooner the better the second reading took place.
Lord WYNFORD thought the sooner they began upon
the bill the better, if it was not intended to put it off till
next session. He should be glad to think with his noble
friend that the principle of this bill was to restore the la-
bourer to the condition he was in some years ago ; but he
feared it would have a contrary result. He hoped that
sufficient time would be given, to enable their lordships
fully to understand the character and bearing of the mea-
sure. In that event he was satisfied it would not pass this
session.

The LORD CHANCELLOR pressed his noble friend
not to accede to the suggestions of the noble marquis. He
was sure by delaying the bill till next session, no calm or
temperate discussion would be the effect. It had already
been fully discussed, and by postponing it it would only be
giving time to array the sinister influences of parish agita-
tion and vestry jobbing against this measure of paramount
importance, as on all hands was admitted. The question
involved in the passing of this bill, which his noble and
learned friend had told them would not pass this session,
was simply this : whether the estates of their lordships
should be taken from their lordships and transferred to
ether hands altogether ? That was the real question, and
that was the way in which the commissioners viewed the
matter. Were they then to discuss such a question calmly
and temperately, and with a total absence of all party feel-
ing and party bias and passion, without reference to any
feeling against the Government, or any division against the
Government, bringing to the consideration all that the most
enlightened and impartial minds had contributed for their
assistance ? That ' was the way in which it was proposed
to have it discussed in that house in the present session.
But if, as proposed by the noble earl, the question were al-
lowed to stand over for a whole summer and winter, that
all the enlightened that parish agitators and vestry jobbing
could cast upon the subject might be brought to bear
against it (" No," from the Earl of Malmesbury) he did not
say that the noble earl had said so, or that such was his
object, but that would be the effect of his proposal being
acceded to ; and it was his duty to point out that such
would be the consequence of the postponement, to which
he hoped his noble friend would not accede.
The Earl of MALMESBURY had no such parties in
his mind when he made his suggestion ; but he wished to
have the opinion of the magistrates at quarter sessions, to
whose opinion he attached much consideration. He also
wanted the practical opinions of many gentlemen through..
out the country who were accustomed to take considerable
interest in the administration of the poor laws in their
several districts. The noble and learned lord imputed to
him motives which he did not entertain.

The Duke of WELLINGTON observed that the only
question was whether the bill should then be read a first
time. As to the second reading he thought they ought to
have time to acquire a proper understanding of the bill, and
to refer to those acts which the bill proposed to repeal.
Excepting for these very proper objects he was quite sure
that no noble lord on his side of the house desired to post-
pone the second reading of the bill one moment beyond the
necessary time for its being printed and circulated amongst
their lordships. All that he knew about the bill was that
it was a very long one, and that it had yet to be printed ;
and he was sure the noble earl could not wish to press the
second reading upon the house before they could have had
time to make themselves masters of its provisions.
The Bishop of LONDON wished merely to state to
their lordships that, although it might possibly turn out
that this bill was not calculated to give effect to its prin-
ciple, yet the principle of it undoubtedly was to reinstate
the labourer in the condition he was in about half a century
ago. Such was the intention and feeling of the commis-
sioners with regard to the bill, and although the alterations
it had experienced in the other house might have impaired
its efficiency, still he thought the noble marquis had mis-
taken the machinery for the principle of the measure. The
central board was the machinery of the bill. The com-
missioners had recommended nothing in their report which
had not been tried in some important parish in the kingdom,
and which, in proportion as it was persevered in, was suc-
cessful in bettering the condition of the labourers, and re-
deeming them from the degradation of flying to the parish
funds upon every trifling emergency. He was sure that
by passing the bill into a law their lordships would do an
act not less consistent with the sound principles of hu-
manity than the most approved means of political economy.
Earl GREY then agreed that the bill should now be
printed, read a second time on Tuesday, and committed at
the end of the week. The press had been kept standing
so as to expedite as much as possible the printing of the
bill, and he had no doubt it would be delivered by Thurs-
day or Friday.
The bill was then read a first time, ordered to be printed,
and read a second time on Tuesday next.
Earl GREY moved the second reading of the Pensions
and Civil Offices Bill.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH made some observations
not distinctly audible in the gallery.
The Earl of ROSEBERY brought up the report of the
select committee on the Scotch Entail Bill, which after a
few words from the Earl of Haddington and the Lord
Chancellor was agreed to.

On the motion of the Earl of ROSE BERY copies of the
report were ordered to be sent to the Judges in Scotland.
—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 2.

There was no morning sitting.
The SPEAKER took the chair at
half-past four, the
chair having been previously occupied in balloting for a
committee to try the county of Monaghan election petition.
The committee was appointed.
Mr. S HEIL said he wished to put a question to the right
hon. the Secretary for Ireland. He understood that the
barony of Langford, in the county of Galway, had been
proclaimed and placed under the operation of the Coer-
cion Bill, contrary to the recommendation of the Marquis
of Clanricarde, the Lord Lieutenant of the county. He
wished to ask whether such was the fact ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said his right hon. friend (Mr. Lit-
tleton) was not then in his place. The hon. and learned
gentleman had better postpone the question until his right
hon. friend was present.
Mr. SHEIL gave notice that he would to-morrow move