The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-11 00:00:00

leaving slavery and freedo.n to 'Cat ultimately in the
c donies.
Mr. BUXTON did not mean it to supposed that he
thought the'Hon. Member intenshd the continuance of a
mixed system. But how would the proposition of the
Hon. Member work ? Trinidad and Jamaica, for instance,
were in some respects dissimilar. Jamaica was on
the eve of an insurrection, and the question seemed
to be applied to that island, whether emancipation should
be carried by law or in the most horrible manner. Would
the Hon. Member withdraw all the troops from Jamaica
and other islands tn. put them into those which
were to be emancipated according to his plan? If he
advised this, he (Mr. Buxton) would tell him that though
1,000 soldiers were now competent to the maintainance of
peace, it would then take 50 or 100,000 to protect
those places which were doomed to wait for emancipa-
tion, from the indignation and despair of the slaves.
The Hon. Member for Lancaster had told the House that he
had one, and only one, objection to granting complete eman-
cipation, viz., that the negroes, when emancipated, would
net work. Now the position he meant to establish was,
that the negroes, being emancipated, would work on being
given a sufficient motive. It was admitted that the slaves
would be able anti wiling to maintain themselves. That
was sufficient to justify him in saying that they ought
to be em incipated, for he never would concede that
we had a right to make them do more.—(Bear, hear,
heir.) But he would go farther, and show that besides
being willing to raise food sufficient for . their own
subsistence, the negroes would labour for wages. The
on :y reason why they had not yet done so was, that
the whites would not pay them wages. It was severally
admitted that the labour of free men was better and cheaper
than the labour of slaves, and he believed West India pro-
prietors had further admitted that. if they could convert the
slaves into free labourers, they should want no compensa
ion, for that they would be benefited as much as the ne-
groes themselves. But then it was said that the negroes
were so incorrigibly idle that they would not work for
wages. He should endeavour to show that they would.
The first case he would mention was one which bad been
alluded to by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, the case in
Trinidad. ,He did not mean to say that the whole body
of the abolitionists had not done all they could upon the
subjact, but no man could be mentioned with greater re-
spect than Mr. Macaulay.—(Hear, hear.) If there was
any man to whom the negroes owed any thing, it was to
him ; no one had done more for them. Tl.e Hon. Mem-
ber for lierex had said that the negroes were in the lowest
state, and be had actually come down to the House, pro-
posing that they should be sold, because they were a nui-
sance in the island of. Trinidad. These negroes, under the
management of Masaes. Wilberforce and Macaulay, cost
upwards of 15,0001. more than the value of their labour.
What.he complained of was, that the Hon. Member for
Middlesex had stopped at the year 1825. In that year
they were placed under the management of -a Captain
Gibbs, who had tried the experiment with them of task-
working. What was the effect of that ? Why, that the
negroes had done as much in six hours as they had pre-
viously done in twelve. Another experiment had been
tried,.and he wished the Hon. Member to attend to this;
that Hon. Member had given a statement with respect to
the negroes up to 1825. He had
,given it after that
period. The Hon. Member had stated that the experi-
ment had wholly failed ; he meant to assert the contrary.
Mr. Gibbs had tried another experiment. He had said
to the negroes, " You now save half the day in conse •
quence of task-working. If you choose to work, I will
give you wages for the rest of the time. What was the
result of that? Why, the negroes showed the greatest
anxiety to improve their condition. They had become
a moot industrious body, and had since then been liberated
by Government. The case he now wished to bring before
,the House was the case of a Mr. Taylor. He gave his
negroes a piece of remarkably hard work—l quote from his
sworn testittiony—he found that there was little hope that
he could get c,at work accomplished. He then thought
he would offer some inducement, and what he offered was
of a very trivial narure. He said to them, " If you will
do that work, you shall work for wages afterwards." The
result was that next day they were in the field before the
dawn of day, and they then accomplished that work which
before was impossible. Now if he was fortunate enough
to engage the attention of the House, he would contend
that that was a fair trial between free and slave labour.
There was another case which he would read to the
House. It wes from a despatch from Sir Carmichael
Smith to Lord Goderich. It stated that 165 slaves,
American slaves, had been wrecked, and landed upon the
Bahamas. The Council at first feared that so large a
body of freed negroes thrown and let loose upon those
islands would, from their supposed character, set a bad
example to the other slaves on those islands. It was
scarcely necessary for him to trouble the House with de-
tails to show that those fears were not realized, particu-
larly as the House seemed impatient, and as the point did
not seem to merit the Right Hon. Secretary's attention.
Mr. STANLEY—I can assure the Hon. Gentleman
that I am paying every attention to the point.
Mr. BUXTON—In the beginning, the planters said a
great deal about what was to be feared from having a
body of flee and reckless negroes mixed up with those
that were not free. But what was the next account of
them? It was given in the following year in the despatch
before mentioned, dated lait February, and addressed to
Lord Goderich. It acquainted his Lordship that the
165 American freed negroes who had been wrecked the
year before were a quiet, industrious, and orde,fly set of
people—that not one was taken before a police nhagistrate
or committed to gaol, and that all of them gained
their own livelihood. Now be maintained that this
is what would follow the immediate liberation of the
slaves.—(Hear.) There was another case he would
mention. It was one founded on the best West
India evidence—that the slave, however he might work
or not work for his master, was very industrious when
he worked for himself. Evidence of the same descrip-
tion was given 40 years ago, in answer to questions from
Government, that the slave, when allowed to work in the
afternoon for himself, would do more work in that portion
of the day than he would during the whole day, if he
laboured for his master. He considered this a point of
great importance, and one that should be attended to by
Commissiuners sent out to the colonies to inquire into the
character of the negro. The slave, on the Saturday
morning, when he winked for his master, would be found
by him idle; but on the Saturday evening, when he
worked for himself, be would be found very different. He
would be found extremely industrious, and that he ex-
tended his labours fir into the night ; for no sooner was
the sun gone down, than he would-be found carrying the
produce of his toil to ,market, and this, too, after a week
of tropical labour. The lead he would carry on his bead
to market would be heavier than that which any planter
would ask of him to bear. He stated these facts on the
authority of Mr. Wildman and Mr. Scott, both West
India planters. How far would the House suppose the
negro on the Saturday night carried these loads ? Why,
ten, twenty, and sometimes thirty miles. This last fast
he stated on the authority of Mr. Simpson, a West India
planter. Gentlemen might perhaps say the negro
laboured thus bard from necessity, and under the
compulsion of hunger. They would find it was not
so, but that it was purely in order to gratify his
artificial wants.—(Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman
then proceeded to read extracts of West India evidence
in support of these latter facts, and to show that the
negro worked diligently, and extended his labour far into
the night, not to procure himself the necessaries, but in
order to obtain the luxuries of life. There was one other
point which appeared to give great alarm to the opponents
of emancipation—that the negroes could not be made to
acquire a taste for luxuries. That he denied. Forty
years ago they had a taste for luxuries ; and, from an old
resolution of the legislature of Grenada, as well as from
the evidence of Mr. Scott, their desire for fine clothes was
apparent. Had any of the Members present read the ac•
count given of the negro balls?—(A laugh.) He (Mr.
Buxton) would mention some of the articles which they.
had at those balls as given in the evidence. There were
roast pigs, ham, and capons—(A laugh)—rum, and
claret, and, of all these articles, us much as they could eat.
—(Hear, and a laugh.) The balls lasted till daybreak,
and some of the negresses were so fond of a fine display of
clothes, that they changed their dress three times in the
course of the night. The negresses were patticularly fond
of muslin gowns and pearl earrings and, what they consi-
dered as a great luxury, as being peculiar to civilization,
shoes and stockings.—(A latigh:;Y He did not understand
how the Right Hon: Secretary could propose to apprentice
the young negroes for a limited time. If the continuation
of slavery was his object, then he could understated it ;
but if not, if, on the contrary, his intention was to abolish
slavery, he (Mr. Buxton) would ask what effect such an
apprenticeship must have on the minds of the negroes

poor rates.
Lord SUFFIELD presented petitions from Inverness
and five other places, for the total extinction of slavery.-
The Earl of ROSEBERRY presented a petition from
the ship builders of Leith and other places in the Firth of
Forth, complaining of the unequal operation of the iluees
on Bride timber ; and a petition from Dumfries, for the
introduction of poor laws into Ireland.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH presented a Bill for
the regulation of county infirmaries in Ireland, which was
read a firs! time. _ _

"yhe.,ORD CHANCELLOR postponed the second
reading of the Local-Courts Bill with great regret, in con•
sequence of the unavoidable absence of several Noble Lords,
who wished to tike part in the debate.
The House then adjourned.

dt d) 7/3
,„,„-Vc;Y 'ziL :77
fka*z)7
I themeeiree?—(Hear, hear.) There being no wage.;
there would be no hope of reward, and no fear of punish-
.
• I ment—and he did not understand, therefore, 'how they
could be expected to work. He (Mr. Buxton) felt con-
fident that the result would be found to be that tlira e
would be a suspension of labour during the term of the
apprenticeship, and a resumption of labour as semi as that
f, apprenticeship terminated. These were his viewa on the
-
subject, and he thought it would be better to reject the
third resolution entirely, leaving it to his Majesty's Mi-
nisters to bring forward such another propositiou as would
better suit the emergency of the case.
Mr. F. LEWIS alloWed that the Hon. Member for
111t-yrnouth was high authority upon this point, but he
did rot consider him such high authority as to entitle
him to assume the high tone in which he had spoken.
From the period when Mr. Canning brought forward his
tesolutions, he (Mr. Lewis) was satisfied that slavery
must be ultimately abolished. Still he would say that it
was a great and doubtful experiment. There never was
such a thing known as a civilized community comprised
of a negro population. It was not known in Africa it-
self, nor among the civilized inhabitants of ancient Egypt.
At the time Mr. Canning's resolutions were agreed to, it
was understood that the period of the ultimate emancipa-
tion of the slaves would depend on the progress to be
made in the interim to fit them for a state of freedom ;
and he (Mr Lewis) had, therefore, expected to bear freni
the Hon. Member's speech that they were now in a situa-
tion to enjoy freedom, and contribute -by their labours to
supply those articles of produce which were now. ob-
tt,ined from the colonies. From all that he had heard,
he (Mr. Lewis) was firmly convinced that sugar would
not be grown by a system of free labour.—(Hear, hear.)
Indeed the Hon. Member himself (Mr. Buxton) had not
ventured to assert that it would. .All that be had said
was, that the negro was in a state to live in comfort and
happiness. But the point was, would the slaves or would
they not work for hire in the fields ? If they would not,
hew conk it he expected that sugar should be cultivated ?
—(Hear, hear.) That wars the real point of difference.
When they slid that slavery was to be abolished, did a
doubt not come over them ..so their power to abolish it.
—(Hear.) If it were tm it •I. at ,argar could not be cul-
tivated by free labour, he feared that, in abolishing slavery
in the British colonies, they would only be transferring it
t.) other countries in proportion to the additional quantity
of sugar which would be required from thetn._(Hear.)
As to the question of compensation, it was his (Mr. L.'s)
opinion, that if it were true, as stated by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Weymouth, that as much sugar would be produced
by free I hour as by the labour of slaves, indemmfication
would, in such a case, he quite unnecessary—(Hear)—
hut if, on the contrary, a smaller quantity of sugar were
produced, then the proprietor might bs entitled to com-
pensation. He would ask, however, bow it was to be
known whether the proprietor, after receiving compensa-
tion (which was to be given to him, not altogether to
meet his loss, but partly in order to enable him to bring
the slave into a condition to receive unconditional freedom),
would continue to cultivate the estate? Until that point
was cleared up, he (Mr. Lewis) would never consent to
give one shilling of compensation.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HILL admitted that the question was surrounded
with difficulty. He thought that the Hon. Member file
Weymouth had shown that the safest course which could
he pursui d was to emancipate the slaves immediately, with
such guards for their future welfare as the case pointed out.
With regard to the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Se-
cretary for the colonies, it gave the negro, in his (Mr.
Hill's) opinion, too much of a freeman to be a slave, and
left him too much of a slave to be a freeman.—(f-Issar,
hear.) As to calling slaves property, he denied such a
proposition altogether; indeed, he would say, ti at were
the nation so bankrupt as not to be able to pay a farthing
as compensation to the planters, mill would he insist upon
immediate emancipation.
Mr; MARRYAT said that the planter, who bad been
encouraged in the slava traffic by this Government, ought
to he compensated for the expense he had been thus led
into, and no measure of emancipation could be efficient
without liberal compensation.
Mr. RIGBY WASON would declare himself decidedly
in favour of gradual emancipation. He conceived it pos-
sible to confine the negroes to the estates, and give them
adequate wages and food. How that was to be done was
the principal question ; and if that could be done, it would
get rid of many objections. There must be, he admitted,
some stimulus to labour, after the use of the whip was
dune away ; and what could that be but adequate
wages?—(Hear, hear.) It could not be expectel that
tie negroes should labour without wages; and the point
of difficulty was, whether the planters would have the
means of paying them—it had been said not; because
the planters at present had no profits, and that wages
must be in proportion to profits. This he denied. Wages
were not regulated by profits in the manufactures of this
country, nor in any part of the world. They were re-
gulated by another principle. The test or rule for wages
was, he was sorry to say, in all cases and in all countries,
the maintenance of the labourer ; and whit would sup-
port him determined his money wages. The planter
would only have to pay what was necessary to support
the negroes. The wages of labour would be regulated
after that by the demand ; and the next question to be an-
swered was, whether the supply of labour was equal to
the demand? But it was a fact well knoten to every man-
that the islands were now cultivated ; and though the.
slaves were maintained through the whole year, they did
not labour above four months, at least four months' la-
bour sufficed for the cultivation. Labour then was
abundant in the West Indies. If more than what was
now in demand were not required, there was in the
islands at least double the quantity of labour required.
The planters, he must admit, would require assistance to
pay their labourers, because money, particularly silver
money, was extremely scarce in the islands. Not to give
them assistance while they were exposed to all the risk,
would be unfair and unjust. The plan he suggested would
obviate this difficulty. He would make the negro party
to his own emancipation. He would tell him that he
should be free at the end of a certain period, if he would
apply himself to the cultivation of the estate, for which
he should get good and adequate wages, and should after-
wards be set entirely free. The rate of wages to which
they were to be entitled, should be determined by an
officer sent from this country, who should have an unli-
mited control on this subject, and who could have no
motives for doing other than justice between the two par-
ties. He should then be disposed to give the planters an
annual assistance, and he believed they would require
that. He had not before broached his views on the sub-
ject, because he had waited for the returns, and he now
saw that the Government had proposed such a plan to the
West Indians, and the West Indians had decidedly and
strongly objected to it.
Mr. SLANEY was for emancipation, but emancipa-
tion, to be successful for the negroes themselves, must not
be carried into effect without preparation. If they at-
tempted to accomplish it without preparation, they would
not succeed in the noble object they bad in view. It was
proper in considering such a question, to remember what
were the motives which operated on the labourers of civi-
lized countries. They laboured in order to obtain, first
the necessaries, then the comforts, and afterwards the
luxuries of life. They were stimulated to greater labour
than was necessary for the support of life, in order to en-
joy these luxuries which the habits and customs of the
country required. The negroes were not destitute of that
spring of ambition which belonged to other peop'e. They
were desirous, like other people, of rising in the world. To
make them labour, and give thorn a taste for luxuries and
comforts, they must be gradually emancipated, and gra-
dually taught so desire those objects which could be attained
by human labour. Tbere was a regular progress from the
possession of necessaries to the desire for luxuries ; and
.what once were luxuries, gradually cime among all classes
and condition of men to be necessaries. This wats the
sort of progress the negroes had to go through, and this
was the sort of education to which they ought to be sub-
ject in their period of probation. They must he educated
to habits of industry by increasing their wants. Of all
other things, however, it was necessary to proceed with
caution, because great interests were at stake, and it would
be impossible, if they were to proceed rashly, to retrace
their steps. If they followed the principle of the plan
laid down by the Right Hon. Secretary for time Colonies,
he did not say in all its details—but if they followed the
principle of that plan, they would proceed cautiously. If
it succeeded they might be encouraged' to go further.
Moreover, the Colonial Legislatures might then assist in
the scheme, and the term of apprenticeship might be
shortened from twelve to ten, or eight years. If, however,
they were to proceed rashly, and were to fail, they would
prevent the trial of any other experiment. He meant,
therefore, not without much deliberation, to give his sup-
port to the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman. In con-
clusion, he would say, that when the momentary politics
of the day were forgotten—when factious opposition had
passed away, the, attempt to abolish slavery would, he
believed, stand out in the front of history as a generous
exertion worthy of the Legislature of a free and enlightened
people.
Mr. HALCOMB had great difficulty in giving his
support to this resolution. What he would propose was,
that they should not immediately put an end to the rela-
tions between master and slave. He further proposed
that the slave should still continue to I tbour on the same
plantation till he gave.notice to his master to leave, or
,eceived notice from his master to that effect. The period
of the notice which he intended to suggest was, two year*