The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-18 00:00:00

the House the reasons why they had abandoned the
Bill, but also all the circumstances that had taken plaeo to
induce them to adopt that course. If the Bill was dropped
in that House, and was brought up from, the other, he would
not suffer it to pass one single stage without giving it his do-
cided and determined opposition.—( Hear, hear )
The LORD CHANCELLOR then rose. As he had
been alluded to personally, in no very measured language--
language which he could, assure -the Noble Lord who had
used it, he received with perfect calmness and indifference--
(Loud cheers. )--he felt himself called upon to say a few
words to the House. He, would first take notice of the asser-
tion of a fact upon which a conclusion had been raised
which astonished him more than any assertion of a fact
he had ever heard.—( Hear, hear.) In that astonishment
he was sure he should be borne out by every Noble Lord
who heard him, and by the colleagues of his Noble
Friend late at the head of the Administration.--( Hear,
hear.) He (the Lord Chancellor) was compelled by
necessity, from the situation he occupied, to hear all that passed
in that House, and he would take upon himself to say
that the words that had been attributed to his
Noble Friend late at the head of the Administration,
were never uttered by him, nor even the colour of words having
such a meaning. It had been stated that he said he had been
betrayed by some person on this side the water. He would ask
any Noble Lord who was present if his Noble Friend used
anything approaching to the word " betrayed." ( Cries
of " Not the word, but the meaning.") Was it
nothing, then, that a person in office, whether high
or low should be called a traitor.—( Great cheer-
ing.) It was admitted, that his Noble and Learned
Friend had not used the word betrayed," and that
being so, he (the Lord Chancellor) desired to know the
words that were used by his Noble Friend upon which such
an assertion could be founded. He (the Lord Chancellor)
would repeat -again, that his Noble Friend had never used
such a word, or anything amounting to it.—( Hear. )
His Noble Friend had expressed his surprise that a communi-
cation had been made by a gentleman in office to one out of it,
but he had never said anything which had the colour or
or even the tincture that he had been betrayed.—( Cheers. )
But it had been said there was a traitor in the Cabinet,
and that statement was meant to have reference to this
Right Hon. Fried the Secretary for Ireland ; with respect
to that he had only to say, it was perfectly well known that
the person holding that office was not a member of the
Cabinet.—( Cheers. )
A NOBLE LORD from the Opposition here said the Chan-
cellor ofthe Exchequer was meant. -- --
The Lord CHANCELLOR said this was the first time he
had ever heard that Noble Viscount charged with the offence
---(A laugh)—indeed he could not conceive what had put
such an absurd idea into the head of the Noble Lord who had
put forth the suggestion : it was absurd, however, to make
any further observation. He trusted he had satisfied the
House that nothing about" betraying" or " traitor " had been
said by the Noble Earl lately at the 'head of affairs, and that
the only expression made by him, was dissatisfaction at such a
communication having been made by a person in office to a
person not in office.—( Hear, hear.) With reference to the
Bill itself, or any circumstances attending it, he should be
ready ,to meet any objections or observations the Noble Earl
might have to make, 7.t any time during the progress of the
Bill. Ho would only, on the present occasion, put it to the
Noble Earl whether he considered that the Government would
be best consulting their duty, and the best interests of all
parties, by attempting to force these three clauses upon the
House of Commons, when they knew that that House would
as soon consent to the repeal of the Catholic Relief Bill, or the
Reform Bill itself, as to pass these clauses ?—( Loud cheers
from the Ministerial benches ?) Had they attempted this,
they might well have been charged with a tiesire to promote a
collision between the two houses--( Hear, hear)---and would
have been responsible for the due effects of such a collision ;
and, for himself, he could solemnly declare that had he, to the
slightest extent, promoted such a fatal line of conduct, he
should never have been able to justify himself to his Sovereign,
to their Lordships, or to any other tribunal--(Cheers)—but,
as the case stood, he trusted that he should be able to justify
his conduct to all parties.--( Cheers.)
The Earl of WICKLOW repeated that his impression still
was, notwithstanding the denial of the Noble and Learned
Lord, that the Noble Earl (Grey) had stated that there
had been some communications between Members of
the Ministry and the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.--( Hear.)
He had not the power of sarcasm of the Noble and Learned
Lord, neither had he the power of saying anything to-day and
then changing his whole tone to-morrow; for be himself bad
heard him say, that those three slauties were the only ones worth
caring for, and that the Bill would be nothing without them,
yet what was now his language?
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Noble
Earl bad a very happy way of misrepresenting all that he
had heard ; he would not take upon him to say it was wilful
misrepresentation, for he believed that the Noble Earl did
believe all he had stated, but that did not make it the more
true.--( Laughter.) Take one instance of his correctness
—that report he had given of what had fallen from him
(the Lord Chancellor). He had never said those three
clauses were the best part of the Bill, for all that he bad said
would lead any unprejudiced person to suppose that • (as he
was in reality) adverse to those clauses, but had given in to them
by compulsion. The House would, - from that sample of the
Noble Lord's accuracy, judge of his correctness in other parts.
He most strenuously denied that the Noble Earl (Grey)
had ever once.even insinuated, that one of the Cabinet had
written to the Lord Lieutenant against the Bill. That it was
one connected with the Government was true, but not one of
the Government.

The Duke of WELLINGTON • also expressed his utter
astonishment at the extraordinary declaration just shade, and
his indignation at the position into which the House had, of
consequence, been thrown. But a very short period had
elapsed since the 'Noble • Earl 'lately at the head of affairs,
when introducing this measure, stated his firm conviction that
these clauses were sO tieeet§ary, that without them the bill
Would be worse than useless--would be as unjust as impolitic;
and the Noble and Learned Lord on the woolsack had warmly
concurred in these expressions..,( Hear, heir.) That Noble
and Letriled Lord would require a great deal more ingenuity
than even he possessed and exercised-in the House, to persuade
them that when he held up these clauses as proper and indis-
pensable, he did not think he 'should carry them in the House
of Commons; btit fiuiv, because he found that Muse would
not agree to them, he turned round and asserted that he had
never approved of those clauses.—( Hear.). • He himself, the
Noble Duke) was averse to any attempt, on the part of their
Lordstipf, to thrust upon the MitilStry dity measure which
they ad grounds for disapproving ; -but, at . the same
time, he considered it but proper, in return, that their
Lordships should understand what those grounds were
___.(Hear, hear, hear I) A fortnight or so ago, the insertion of
thesl clauses, was,Veheinetily dthnandetp now they,were to
bi abandoned. Yet Why ? The Lord lieutenant ot Ireland
had sent over a vast deal of information on the subject, whence
it appeared that outrage and crime in Ireland had beea di-
trec-fifths of the Whole ambnot; py the 410tation of
1116 Year—( Hear, hear)—and in four baronies which
had been proclaimed, the amount of centage had been reduced
almost to nothing. Every person who had been employed by
Government in carrying it into effect had declared that it had
been Most beefiat stilt only there; hitt Government
la /retail, the Magistrates, and the people themselves were
most anxious to ,have it renewed—( Hear, hear, hear), but
were generally of. opinion •that the omission of these clauses
would destroy its effect. The renewal of-the Bill had accord-
ingly been propeacil by the late Noble Premier and the. Noble
and Learnbd LBrd; 8t tip n -these elfauses
As Indispensable; a Bill was agreed to, and went through two
stages ; yet now came the Noble Viscount and intimated, not
only that they should drop these clauses, but that they should
Withdraw the introduction of the Bill froth that House,
because, said; they; ' BtlBrt#ll6 et 610 iifftlid flee ~Houle of
Calinai won't. agree to it"--(Hear, hear,. hear !) What I
was the House of Lerch then to be reduced to such a state of
degradation as this ,?—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
Were they to be played with in this manner ? 'to be treated as
but a sort of,board of to#ittration ?.,=.l( Renewed deers from
the Opplitißti.) The important information got together
with so mach care by the Lord Lieutenant went for whine—
his opinion went for nothing, though stronger words could not
have been made use of than those in which, on the 15th of April!
he expressed his ?pinion in feitotii Of the renewal of this measure
unimptittd. Ana in kigA expression of opinion the Noble Vice-
Foy was' supported byln well-disposed people in Ireland, who
had derived the advantages which this measure gave, in restor-
ing security to life and property. Yet such a Bill its.thig te=as
to be impaired in this manner, because,. the. able ViSeduitt
said, there was reas,lo thirik the Rouge Would
object to the *uses in question ! Why should' they suppose
that
,House would reject the measure ? it was precisely the
same which they had sent up to the House of Lords last
year.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that the Noble Earl
lately at the head of affairs had been thiarepreSented.
(the Duke of Wellington) would be the last man tb stiffs-
represent or assent to the misrepresentation of any .Noblb
Lord's observations ; but, certainly,. if, he reinenthered &AY-
thing, he did clearly remember that Notre Earl statin to the
House that a Member of the Qtbinei---( Hear, hears—had,
without his privity, .nitren to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,
and I.te saised the Noble functionary to express t dette that
these three clauses should be omitted ; that the Noble Viceroy
had accordingly sent over to say that he could do without them,
and that he (the Noble Earl) had at once and very properly,
written over to the Viceroy, desiring him to look at tlth qiles-
tion solely en Irish grounds, and quite abstractedly from Eng,
lish politics--( Hear, hear)—and the Noble Earl had 000dluctO
by expressing his determination to carry the Hill, and Insist
upon the insertion of these clauses as a sine qua non.--( Hear,
hear.) Yet was such a measure as this to be summarily with-
drawn, because, forsooth, it was imagined that a Majority of
the Commons would not agree to it. If 'such a prireinle as
this were to be instituted, he trenibled -ti?r the consequences.
—(Cheers from the .Opposition.) He did not mean to say
that he intendod to throw any difficulties in: the way of Mini-
sters in their progress with their Bill : they might bring for-
ward what measure they liked, and he would content himself
with throwing upon them the whole of the responsibility, and
lie warned them that great would that responsibility be.—
( Cheers.) •

The Earl of LIMERICK protested against being guided
by what might be supposed to be the opinion entertained on
any bill in the other House. " Good God I (exclaimed his
Lordship) are we come to this ? Arc we, in future, to be a
mere house of registration for the other House ?—( Cheers
from the Opposition.) We have been taunted and threatened
with degradation, and this would be degradation indeed! At
any rate, if this House is to be degraded, let us not seal its de-
gradation ourselves."—(Cheeis from the Opposition.)
Lord MELBOURNE commenced in so low a tone, that
for some time we could with difficulty catch the tenor of his
observations. He said that he was very, sorry to find the ex-
treme difficulty of his position so enhanced by, the!ehement
A 1

clamour raised against the very first legislative step he attempted;
and he the more regretted it, as he had been most anxious to
remove any grounds of complaint which might have beep raised
against this Bill. A Noble Earl ( Wicklow) had attacked the
Ministry in language, the unmeasured terms of which he
(Lord Melbourne) should be very sorry to reciprocate. He
had on former occasions told the Noble Earl that he should
be very cautious how he took his standard of language from that
adopted by the Noble Earl. Were he inclined to talk to the
Noble. Earl in his. own language, he might tell him that he
excused his intemperance, because he saw that he was under
the influence of those two strongest of passions—mortified
vanity, and disappointed ambition,—( Cheers from the Minis-
terial benches)—but he would content himself with assuring
the Noble Earl that he did excuse his intemperance, without
entering into the reasons for so passing it over. Having said
thus much, however, he could not but say that it appeared to
him that the course now adopted towards a new, and indeed
unformed Ministry, was mast unusual ; and, to say the least
of it, ungenerous. The more open and patriotic way would
have been, to propose a vote for the removal of a Ministry
described as so unworthy. With reference to the measure it-
self, he did not mean to say but that when it was first intro-
duced for a renewal, it had met with his concurrence as it
stood ; and he had undoubtedly said he thought it prudent
and expedient in that form.—( Loud cheers from the Oppo-
sition.) He did not wish to deny this ; but the circumstances
were now altered ; for when it came out, no matter how,
that the Lord Lieutenant was of opinion he could maintain
tranquillity in Ireland without these clauses, he would put
it to the House whether it would be proper or justifiable to
force such clauses upon an unwilling agent, who thus expressed
hia readiness and ability to keep peace and tranquillity without
the aid of any such extraordinary powers.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
This expression of opinion, too, en the part of such high au-
thority, had of course had its effect on the public mind, on the
minds of many members of the Legislature, and of certain
members of the recent administration ; and he had thought it
right to bring in a bill which should be in conformity with the
opinion of the majority. It would hardly be contended that
the opinion of that majority should be held as nothing.—
( Cheers.) This was the whole of the case ; and he now called
upon them, in the name of their Sovereign and of the country,
for their support, countenance, and co-operation. No one
felt more strongly than himself the responsibility of Mi=
nisters for their measures; and he could assure the House,
that if the omission of these clauses should have the effect
of producing the threatened evils, and of nullifying the
beneficial intent of the bill, if matters came again to a
head, if the Lord Lieutenant should find, contrary to ex-
pectation, that he could not govern Ireland without the powers
given in these clauses, then, and in that case, the House and
country might rest assured, that if this Administration remained
in office, they would advise their Sovereign to call a Parlia
ment together—if none should be sitting—and throw them
selves upon that Parliament for the additional powers neces•
sary to meet the exigencies and difficulties of the case.—
( Cheers. )

Lord WHARNCLIFFE intimated, as we understood, his
intjtion, on the second reading of the Bill being proposed, to
call for the production of all the correspondence on the subject.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM was so extremely ener-
getic, as to be at times unintelligible. He said that the pro-
ceedings of Ministers were most reprehensible, for they acted
one way, although the House had their own words for acting
another. With regard to the words which were alleged to
have been used the other evening by the Noble Earl late at
the head of his Majesty's Government, he (the Duke of Buck-
ingham) certainly understood the Noble Earl to say that he
had been deceived by a member of the Cabinet.—( Cries of
" No, no," from the Ministerial side of the House.) The
Noble Earl certainly said that confidence had been be-
trayed, by holding communications with the agitator of
Ireland, on a subject which was then under the consideration
of Government. That communication had been made by the
Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, with the concurrence of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and though that Noble
Lord had, in consequence of the apprehended impossibility of
carrying the bill in question through the other House, after
the occurrences which had taken place, resigned his office, he
had resumed the same office in the short space of eight days,
because he was now supported by the same men who then
threatened to oppose him. The Noble and Learned Lord on

tie woolsack seemed very desirous of correcting the speeches
of other Noble Lords. He (the Duke of Buckingham) would
say, let the Noble and Learned Lord recollect his own
speeches on this subject, and correct himself. The Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin might now be said to be the Go-
vernor of Ireland. The Noble and Learned Lord on the wool-
sack, and his colleagues, might think that they had buried the
Noble Earl late at their head, in his political sepulcre' and
that he would no more disturb them; but they would find
themselves mistaken. The spirit of the Noble Earl would
burst its cerement, and haunt them in their festivities, and dis-

turb the " potations pottle deep " of the Noble and Learned
Lord.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE and the LORD CHANCELLOR
here rose at the same time, but the former gave way.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—Stop a minute. As to
the concluding observations of the Noble Duke, all I shall say
is, that I do not frequent the same cabaret or alehouse, as he
does; at all events, I do not recollect having met the Noble
Marquis at his potations. I have not a slang dictionary at
hand ---

The Marquis of BUTE—I rise to order. The Noble and
Learned Lord is completely out of order.
Several other NOBLE LORDS, amidst great confusion, also
called out, " Order, order."
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM—I wish the Noble and
Learned Lord to proceed.
The LORD CHANCELLOR remained for some time
on his legs, as if anxious to proceed.
Several Noble Lords still cried out " Order, order ;" and
the greatest confusion prevailed on the Opposition side of the
House.

The LORD CHANCELLOR then resumed his seat.
The Marquis of BUTE—I rise to order, not only from re-
spect to the House, but from respect to both the Noble Lords
themselves, as it is likely that in the heat of the moment they
may give utterance to language which they would afterwards
regret. lam sure they will both see that it is with the most
friendly feelings towards them that I wish to put an end to this
altercation.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—The Noble Marquis
would certainly hate been more deserving of my thanks if he
had allowed me to sit down, which was just about to do at
the time, without interfering at all. With regard to the con-
cluding observation of the Noble Duke— '
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—I rise to order. -
The LORD CHANCELLOR—This, my Lords, is cer-
tainly not the way to keep order. , •
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—I maintain, my
Lords, that the Noble and Learned Lord is out of order.
• (The greatest confusion now prevailed in.the House.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR—My Lords, this is unfair.
Noble Lords on this side of the House (pointing to the oppo-
sition benches) listen with the greatest attention to-the attack,
and yet they refuse to hear one word in defence.
Lord LONDONDERRY—Speak in explanation:
The LORD CHANCELLOR (with much emphasis);
I tell the Noble Lord :that lam speaking in explanation. If
the Noble Duke meant, as I am .persuaded ho did
moan, the language he made. use of,' only .as. a joke I
urn perfectly willing to take it as such : but if he meant it to
be understood as a fact, thereby intending the thing as a
personal imputation,. then, say, that nothing could, be
more incorrect—nothing dould be further from the truth.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM-1 meant the observation
merely as a joke. I was only making use of the language of
ghdltiptMte, in his tragedy of Hamlet.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then rose ; but his first
few observations were inaudible in the gallery. He did not

rise for the purpose of answering the various misstatements
which had been made by the-Noble Duke (Wellington) in'the
spedeii Which he lied Made ; but would reserve himself to reply
to the still Imager speech which the Noble Duke had promised
their Lordships when the measure, with the alterations which
had been proposed, should be regularly before the House. As,
however, he had heard what had been said by his Noble
Friend, Into at the head of his Majesty's Government, in the
speech to which soil frequent reference had that evening been
matio r and as he had been 'a witness to the unfounded allega-
tion' which had been made against his Noble Friend—an alle-
gation that the Noble Earl had.on that occasion said he had
been betrayed by a Member of the C;t::7_,t--he C.ould not re-
main silent; but must meet that allegation by a aeL.4."4 c°ll-
- The Noble Earl had never made use of the

language Imputed to him. He. had never used the words
" been ,betrayed;', at ;, nor aia he say he had been de-
13V, tl thinthai the eibinet. In the speech of his
Noble. Friend on the occasion q4109t194-4 A.pOefh never
to be forgotten—certainly, at least, never to De !f."l3,'Citten
by him (the -Marquis of Lansdowne), for, but for that
speech, he should not have continued to hold the situation
cL which he then AlleAn that
,§peedh, ue repeeted. no such
terms Were made use of; for,. if the Noble Earl had said that
bekit I.3efriiod hi a Meniber of the Cabinet, lie (the
Marquis of Lansdowne) would never h 5.% eatic.;ented i 6 fenittin
in office with a person guilty of such conduct ; and nothing
but the most perfect satisfaction, not only that such language
had not been made use of b; the Noble Earl, but that it could
not, With truth, have td6ii app'lie" dan Member of the Ca..
binet, would even now induce him (the Marquis of Lanstiottne)
to continue to sit in that Cabinet. He would now, with their
Lordships' perm,isgion, Say a feel words, and they .ivould be
very iew, in reference to the alterations which it was pia:
posed to make in the bill which had given rise to this discus-
su:l4. Though be had been silent when the measure was in-
tio Gee' by Noble Friend late at the head of his Majesty's
Government, into their Lordships' House, and though be bad
said nothing DA tht nilleCt since, he &ily coneniteu With his
r to: rilend and colleagues, that that measure was necessary,
indispensably necessary, for the maintenance of peace and
tranquillity in Ireland. Though he had been hitherto silent
on the subject, he would not, he repeated; den" that he
attached as much importance to the measure as his noble
.Friend, or any of his colleague§ Heir, heart) But
though thus satisfied at the time of the iiedeiiity tit the
measure, he mast now, in the altered cfrettitstantea tlf
the case, consider what would be the best course
for the Government and the Legislature to pursue.
An indiscretion had been committed by. the Betita
tary for Ireland, by the communication he had made to a Mem-
hpr of the other House of Parliament ; and in consequence of
the disclosures which had thus been made, his Noble Friend
the Chancellor of the Eichequer found it would be difficult
to get the Bill, as it then stood, through the other House.
Let him (the Marquis of Lansdowne) as!'z their Lordships
whether, under existing circumstances, it w9ul4 'Le sufficient
if the Bill were got through the Commons by a bare majority ?
He would put it to the Noble Lords, whether, when they re-
fleeted on the whole extent of the indiscretion which had been
cominitted,• and the dislike to such measures to which it must
necessarily.give rise in the other House—and he must say

Memberi.

41,,

that he rather reverenced the feeling than c ,ntilemned
would put it to Noble Lords, whether, in these' circumstances,
it would not be better to eocleavour to carry ovr the Govern-
ment of Ireland without the extraordinary powetrit which the
Bill was intended to confer upon .t? But when he said that
he reverenced the feeling which woOd give rise to an oppo.
sition to the Bill as it at present stood in the °the 'r House of
Parliament, let him not be misunderstood. He wished Noble
Lords to understand, that if the expectation enter tained by
the other House, that more limited powers would suffice
for the exigencies of the case, should' turn . oat 'to
be unfounded ; and the Lord Lieutenant ,of Ireland
should find it impracticable, with the existing br,ws, to main-
tain peace and tranquillity in that country, eithea• in eonto_
quence of the revival of associations, or from 0t,...er causes,
then, he would let his Majesty be advised to call narliament
together, at whatever time the necessity should arise, And ask
for enlarged powers, to maintain order and tranquillity in Ire-
land. He would sanction such advice to his Majesty, in the full
confidence that the same reformed Parliament which was now
sc. jealous for the liberties and privileges of the people, would
at once, on being called together, and the necessity being evi-
dent, grant the additional powers which his Majesty would ask
of them. They would do this with the utmost confidence in
his Government, and in the determination that the peace of
Ireland should be preserved. And he was sure that. not only
would the Reformed Parliament, in such an exigency, grant
his Majesty those ample additional powers which were neces-
sary to put down disturbances in Ireland, bat they would also
grant the powers necessary to put down th e causes of those
disturbances. It was, he repeated, in this comMence, and, with
this determination taken, that he gave his consent to the with.
drawal of the clauses in question. If it should be found, next
year, that those clauses were rendered necessary by anything
that then existed, or had previously occurred, then these clauses
could be restored. He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) wished to
see the causes of agitation in Ireland done away, as well as the
effects.—( Ironical cheers from the Opposition Pet"rs.) Ho
would only say, in conclusion, that it was, the duty of Govern-
ment to remove the causes of evils, as well as. %he evils
themselves.
The Marquis of SALISBURY made one or two observa-
tions which were altogether inaudible in the gallery.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that the Noble
Marquis who- had just addressed their Lordships was guilty
of great inconsistency in regard to this measure. Ho had
completely changed his opinions on it. in the space of ten
days. - The- Noble Earl, late at the head of -his Majesty's
Government, had fallen- a sacrifice to the base intrigues of
some of-his colleagues •in
_reference to this measure.. Lord
Althorp, whose resignation led to that of the Noble Earl, was
the first to suggest that a communication should be made to
11r. O'Connell of the intention of Ministers with regard to
the revival of this Bill. That Lord had since accepted office.
His. conduct, therefore, was altogether inexplicable, and he
would never be able to justify himself to the country. The
Noble Earl, In.:. at the head of his Majesty's Government, had
been completely town overboard by his friend that evening.
He (the Marquis of Londonderry) regretted that the Noble
Earl was not present to witness their Lordships' proceedings.
The people of this country would have no confidence in the
new Administration. They would say it was a miserable
patched up piece of work.
The LORD CIIANCELLC.III then moved that the House
do adjourn.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished,. before the adjourn-
ment of the House, to put one question to the Noble Viscount
opposite. Both the Noble Viscount and the NoiAe and Learned
Lord on the woolsack had spoken in no very me,:qmred terms
of the conduct of the Secretary for Ireland in reference to the
communications to Mr. O'Connell. What he therefore wished
to ask the Noble Viscount was, whether Mr. Littleton was still
in office.

Lord MELBOURNE had great pleasure in being able to
answer the question of, the Noble Baron in the affirmative.
The Noble Baron was incorrect in saying that he had spoken
of the. Secretary for Ireland in harsh terms. What he was
blamed for was the extent of the information he communicated
to Mr. O'Connell, and not for the mere circumstance of mak-
ing the communication. Mr. O'Connell was a member of the
other branch of the legislature, and therefore was entitled to
some knowledge of the intentions of Government with reference
to the bill in question ;_and what, he repeated, he blamed him
for, was the extent, and not the fact, of the communication.
Lord ELLENBORO UGH said that, in that respect, the
Noble Viscount differed from the Noble Earl late at the head
of his Majesty's Government. The Noble Earl said that no
communication whatever ought to have been made to Mr.
O'Connell. He (Lord Ellenborough) thought that Mr. Lit-
tleton had been extremely ill used in this affair. For several
days he had lain under the imputation that he had made that
communication of himself, and unknown to any member of
his Majesty's Government, whereas it now appears it was with
the concurrence, and at the special request, of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer that he made it.—( Hear, hear," from the
Opposition Peers.) The whole blame rested on that Noble
Lord ( Althorp). The heaviest charge which could be brought
against Mr. Littleton was, that he did not inform the Noble
Earl then at the head of the Government of having made that
communication. But though he had not mentioned the circum-
stance to the Noble Earl, he had mentioned it to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and he would naturally expect that
he would have told the circumstance to the Noble Earl.

The LORD CHANCELLOR. denied having spoken in
harsh terms of Mr. Littleton, in the same way as that. gentle-
man had done of himself. • He had admitted that he committed
an indiscretion in commttnicating at :4•11 with Mr. O'Connell,
which was exactly the purport of what lie (the Lord Chancel ,
lor) had said. He did not think,that his 'Noble Friend, lately
at the head of the Government, said anything of the mere fact
of Mr. Littleton having communicated with Mr. O'Connell :
what he complained of was, the extent of the communication
which he made to him. His (the Lord Chancellor's) opinion
was, that Government ought to communicate, through their
leader in the Houie of Commons,- with Members of that House
as to their intentions with respect to particular measures; and
such he knew was not only the opinion but the practice under
former Governments. When he was in the other House, Mr.
Canning, Lord Castlereagh, and Mr. Percival, were in the
habit of so communicating with him, though he was in politi-
cal hostility with all of these men, and with something ap-
proaching to personal hostility with one of them. He recol-
lected that he and Mr. Percival had a communication together
respecting some important Government measure, the very day
before the lamented death of Mr. Percival. In fact, ,it would
be impossible to carry on Government without such communi-
cations with Members of the other House of Parliament.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to ask the
Noble and Learned Lord on the woolsack whether his Majesty's
.
speech at the opening of the session did not represent Mr.
O'Connell as the cause of the agitation in Ireland?
The LORD CHANCELLOR did not recollect that his
Majesty's speech represented Mr. O'Connell as the author or-
cause of the agitation in lieland ; but this he recollected per-
fectly well, that his Majesty's 'speech said no such thing._
( Loud laughter.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR then again moved the
adjournment of the House, on which

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said that part of the words
of the Noble Earl, late at the head of the Government, to
which reference had so often beep made that evening, was,
that a Member of the GoVernment had placed confidence in a.
person in whom no confidence ought to be placed.
A NOBLE LORD, whose name we could not learn, said.that
the Noble Earl had, on the occasion in question, said that the
communication to Mr. O'Connell was made without his
knevvledge ; and that if he had known it, he
,would have pre-
ventecLit. He would support the bill in its present shape.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained: In speaking of
Mr. Littleton, he had merely made use of that gentleman's
own expressions.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that was often very un-
just and ungenerous, as a person 'vas frequently led to speak
of himself in more severe and condemnatory terms than the
occasion warranted.

The LORD CHANCELLOR then moved the adjourn-
ment of the House a third time, which was agreed to at a
quarter to eight.
After the House was formally adjourned, the Marquis of
LONDONDERRY rose and spoke for a short time, but the
noise occasioned by the Noble Lords leaving the House ren-
dered it impossible to catch anything of what he said in the
gallery.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 17.
The SPEAKER resumed the Chair at 20 minutes past
,five
'clock, when there was an extremely full attendance of

MEggAgE•FROM THE 'LORDS.
A message from the Lorea was brought up, stating that
their Lordships had agreed to the . ellimneysweepers' Regula-
tion Bill and some private Bills.
THE ADMINISTRATION.
Lord ALTIIORP, upon being called upon by the SPEAKER,
rose, and was received with lloud cheers. The Noble Lord .
said, I ..wii: take the opporttinity of _ moving for a, new
writ for the purpose of stating to the Hotist; that my
Noble Friend (Lord Melbot:
rrie) has been commissioned ,
by his Majesty to lay before bin: the plan of' an
Administration, that he has completed his arlZugements, and
has reconstructed an Administration. The aa,',.
itions that
have been made to the Administration are, that Lord Dunci:.qu'r
has accepted the office of Secretary for the Home Department,
and Sir John Hobhouse has accepted the Woods and Forests
in the place of Lord Duncannon.—(Cheers.) Therefore, as
far as addition goes, the alteration is not considerable, but un-
doubtedly the alteration is great, very, great indeed, in the loss
of the services of my Noble Friend .Lord Grey.—(Loud
cheers.) ' And it is impossible foi• me to disguise the fact that
the Cabinet, now that Lord Grey has ceased to preside eve:
ne theceovrewdr.
ahnowcl whole
eo
upiev,dr:i
tohhdav:mef
y, c e
iou4iwt ,
Its councils, has not so great a claim as it previously had to the
Noble Friend upon both public
confidence of the House. It is equally impossible for me to express
my regret at the loss of my
iatlii dlenlpersonali:e: .1,., g,
have_ roeun d,my poli-
ticalNOble
"-;end's views and' opinions ; from the earliest pew
,rn a Member of this House, w have- `Y,
fotinly acted toix.,--: !- • -en with the .-;:,2: ‘*^‘''''," - \`"''
:ae.ct:dpanudirni During
dffitid it it ad
h net 0,-- • nog •T-7.4t,i)t,_ Rta)s, %-,
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in hint n , ~, .4A . • ~,' itt0g,..... ,
often stated that nothing egtiitt ~, . ~,,,e-Is -_,,,gite0.,,W0apt,,,5c,..,:i
office, but the bopemOgna.,• ~,,4'" *bleb iseasluges ~', ,j
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1.4.10
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1155 incrcage("lll§ Rtniabl? (lispositiod‘luka p tei..492 'z'';
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