The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-30 00:00:00

look, and to consider the excess as not taking place
till the War. It certainly was to he wished that it,had
not been incurred, bat when all the circumstances were
taken into consideration, and when none of the
items were liable to suspicion, he did not think that
the Hon. Gentleman would induce the Committee
to concur with-him iii opposing thiS Motion. One
of the objections_ of the Hon. Gentleman was, founded
upon the charge for Foreign Ministers ; this was an
article of expence which
.the Hon. Gentleman used
always to approve of, 'bin he had statett that his
objection was not to the continuing the_ former exe
pences, but for incurring new 'ones. The Hon.
Gentleman had objeded that different persons had
been*sent upon different missions, and had been very
witty upon the subject of Lord Whitworth being
sent,to Copenhagen; and another Gentleman having
been sent orna fbrrner occasion to Petersburgh, and=
had contended that 'elle whole of, this charge ought
to be strode off. This would, indeed, be most
extraordinary economy, to say the Civil 'List
is"*.- in state of difficulty, and therefore' we'mnst
not send extraordinary .I\flissions to Foreign Courts,-
althouali, perhaps it might be,the means of saving
the, Country froth a War, or of leading to the
conclusion of a Peace. The Honourable Gentleman
might.say, bad any of your missions this'effed ?
This v. as a point he wOuld not argue in a digres-
sion, -br. in a parenthesis in, a speech: He would
not now enter into any argument about the obj'a
of those missions; he would only ask, whether a-
difference of z or 30001. arising ,from such a -cause,
and under all the circumstances of the present times,
ought to decide the condua of GoVernment,- or
whether it aught to be introduced into a grave
assembly by a grave man ?—With regard to what
the Hon. Gentleman .had said about the office of
Secretary 01-Sfate, it iviis a iubjeEt which had often
been mentinned'in the HOuseaand might be discussed
again ; and if the House.was.of opinion' that if ought'
near to be continued, i t might be bid down. The Hon.
Gentlermui-had Contended, nhatthere was' no occasion
for such an office, becaus' the labour Of Secretary of
Statelesd 'very considerably diminished by the sepa-
ration of America from-this Country e but whoever
would take into consideration all the' affairs of this
Country; would-not find it easy to state any. period
in which there was Occasion for greater exertton_ or
greater vigilance_ than during the War, and which
most, idi a considerable degree, be. kept up during
the Peace .which 'had this day been announced.—
The Hon. Ger,rieitan had Spoken much of theeffed
of Peace and- War upon. the Civil List ; bur his
Right Hon. Friend had taken Much pains to skew
that thiS iii-creaseedid not' arise from the War, as
such, but had merely-increased during .a period of
War. No such idea had' ever been advanced by
his Right Hon. Friend as that which the Hon.
Gendeman had laboured :to refute, a.nd which in
of file% he had advanced-himself, viz. that
because the general expences of the country were
'great, that -:eherefore the Civil: List must be in-
creased in propottiOn. ' NO. such argument had
ever been urged, and the, Hon. Gentleman had
merely invented. it for: the. purpose of refuting it.
It had been admitted•that some of t'he expences: of
theCivil-List musrihave been increased by the great
increase-in the price of proviSions; but there were
some expences which. absolutely- arose our of the'
War : she would take for instance one charge, that;
was Foreign Messengers, an 64)N-tee arising almost
entirely out of the War:. He foimd that this was
charged under the head- of occasional payments,
under which head the greatest increase had takers
place. Many of -these expences could not have
been foreseen when the' Estimate*was made. • When,
-however, he saw that *the
.Pension List had been
kept 'within its bounds,. when he saw that the sala-
ries had' been diminished -in general, and when he
saw that the increase which had taken place was in
articles the le4t liable to suspicion ; he owned he
felt great gratification in -thinking that no applica.
tion had ever been made to Parliament, the explana-
tion of which was more simple, or lay in.a more nar-
row compass, or that came with a better grace
than the one now under considerationeThere remained
but one point more upon which he would say but a
very few words, and that was, respeding the nature of
the Civil-List.. Upon this parr of the subject he
- - would not enter into any discussion of the different
changes which had taken place in the nature of our
Revenues. He would contend, that when the Civil
List was once granted to the Crown to be disposed
of, generally.speaking; without the interference of
Parliament, it was at the same time true, that
it was not only the right but the duty of Parlia-
ment to-inquire, .whenever they saw any grounds
for suspicion of prodigality or corruption, and espe-
cially whenever there was any application 'made to
them for relief. The Gentleman had
spoken of the expences in fornier Reigns, but he wish-
- ed the Hon. Gentleman would take into consideration
the Grants to the Crowil,' and the Debt in the three
Reigns preceding that of his present-Majesty, and
he would find that in the first sixty years of the last
century, the average expenditure. was 794,0001.
• per annum. Now, allowing for all the sums which
- had been granced, and. which was now proposed to
he granted in ,aid of the Civil List, for the-last
forty
years, the expenditure, upon an average, was
not above 918,0001. a year. He appealed to the
Comatit tee, whether this, increase in tine proportion
offrorn 8 to t . (he was not talking of die Revenue
only, bet- of the Revrnue and Debt together),

• taking all the circumstances of the times into consi-
lieration, and particularly the great increase in the
.f price of Provisions, deserved the language which
had been applied to it by the Hon. Gentleman
'-'Look at' the great variation of money during the
• period of 'which he had been speaking. It had va-
ried in the proportion of from -z to 3, and the va-
riation in the Expenditure of the Civil List was
•i onl) ;is Bto 9. It would- also be fair- to look at
the 'state of the Hereditary Revenue the average
.amount-ct th,,t. revenue durihg -His Majesty's Reign
' was 1,200,0001. a year, and in the year .11300 it
amounted to no less than. 1,8oce,000!, ; and. this