The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-04 00:00:00

Well, then, he would say 1,0001.—(lIonewed laughter.)—But
surly some amount ought to be fixed.

Sir R. PEEL—The Hon. Gentleman had mentioned
1,5001., as if that was a moderate amount. He thought diffe.
rently ; indeed, it was not at all necessary to fix any amount,
because he (Sir R. Peel) could conceive that persons might be
found quite ready to accept the office, who would be satisfied
with the repayment of the actual expenses to which they had
been put. Perhaps the Hon. Member had not forgotten that the
salaries or expenses would have to be paid out of the church
returns.—(Hear, and laughter.) It would be time enough to
determine the remuneration when the duty to be performed
was ascertained.—Hear.)

Lord ALTHORP said, the observations of the Hon. Baronet
were perfectly correct. The remuneration could not be
determined until the amount of responsibility of duty were
ascertained.

Mr. FINN was not disposed to leave these matters to the
liberality of the Irish Government. All the Irish Judges
in Ireland were overpaid.
An HON. MEmaga asked if the Board of First Fruits was
overpaid with only 7001. ? _

. .
Mr. FlNN—Their labours had not been great, for they had
but little in the way of first fruits to administer.

Several verbal amendments were agreed to in pages 5,6, 7,
8, at 9.
Sir ROBERT PEEL objected to the phraseology of the Bill.
It was generally too expletive. In the page then before the
House occurred the words " examine, search, and inquire."
He could see no use in using these three words when one would
sufficiently express the sense.--;Hear.) If this were a re-
formed Parliament, its phraseology ought to be reformed.—
(Hear, hear.) Again, the words " requisite arid necessary"
came together, as if one was not enough. If these repetitions
of words were allowed to occur, it would still continue to be
necessary to consult a lawyer in order to understand an Act of
Parliament.—(Hear.)
Several verbal amendments were then made in that and
following pages.

Mr. SHAW proposed that the tax upon the incomes of the
clergy should not be imposed upon their gross income, but on
what was left after the payment of curates. There were many
livings so large as to compel the rectors to employ two or three
curates. Now, it would be a great hardship, that a rector
should have to pay a tax as for an income of
7001. per annum, when half of it was paid away in obtaining ne-
cessary assistance.

After some observations by Mr. STANLEY, Mr. WYNNr, Mr.
LEFROY, and others,
Lord ALTHORP agreed to make an amendment in the tax-
ing clause, which should make allowance for the salaries paid
on account of curates.

Mr. FINN suggested that in all cases where the:income of the
rector was 5001. or more, he should be obliged to pay 1001. out
of it to any curate he might employ. Nine tenths of the eccle-
siastical duty was done in Ireland by curates on small salaries,
whilst the rectors were enjoying themselves at Bath or Chel-
tenham. In some of the dioceses in Ireland the Catho:ic clergy
had been for some time obliged to give their curates one-
third of their income if they lived out of their house, and
one-fifth if they lived in the house with them. The
result had been a marked improvement in the discipline of the
Catholic church, and the system was about to be extended to
every diocese. At a future opportunity he should move an
amendment, to carry his suggestion into effect.
Mr. STANLEY gave the Hon. Member every credit for
good motives, but his amendment, he feared, would merely
have the effect of throwing many estimable men out of employ-
ment, for if a minimum were fixed, which the rectors did not
choose to pay he would dismiss his curate. Fixing a mini.
mum limit to wages, if of any effect at all, always operated to the
injury of those intended to be ben ',fitted, by depriving them of
employment they might otherwise have.
Several verbal amendments were proposed to clauses from 36
to 46 both inclusive, which were either afterwards withdrawn
or agreed to without a division,
On the Chairman reading the 47th clause,
Mr. O'DWYER proposed as an amendment, that all the
words after " Whereas," should be left out, and others inserted
to the effect, that after the passing of that Bill, no Archbishop
or Bishop should, by virtue of his episcopal office, sit or vote in
the House of Lords.—(Laughter.) Strangers were or-
dered to withdraw, but no division took place. The
Hon. Gentleman having withdrawn his motion, he said he
would give notice of his intention of moving it when the
next Church Reform Bill was before the House.
On coming to that clause which stated that as the revenue,
of the Archbishops of Armagh and Dublin exceeded
the others, and should, therefore, certainly be reduced.
Sir H. INGLIS objected to it as establishing a most per-
nicious principle. If the House passed it, then how could
they refuse to entertain such a motion as this if he was to bring
it forward,—" Whereas, as the revenues of the Dukes of
Sutherland and Cleveland far exceed those of other Dukes,"—
(the conclusion of the sentence was drowned in very loud
cries of " Oh, oh.")

Mr. W. EVANS thought the income of the Bishops was
much too large for their duty, and that the diminution of
their wealth and splendour would not produce a diminution

in their efficacy or respect. In the notice which he had
given, he had intended to have proposed that the income
of the future Bishops of Derry should be reduced to 50001 a year.
since that period, however, he had been induced by several
Gentlemen to alter that sum to 6,0001. a year. The incomes
of the Bishops of Kilinore, Cashel, and Tuam, were in his
opinion too large, but he did not feel himself competent to take
up so great a subject as dealing with them. He should therefore
move that an addition be made to the clause to the effect that
the income of all future bishops of Derry should be reduced to
6,0001. a year. He thought there was no Hon. Member who
would not join with him in thinking that sum quite adequate.
Lord ALTHORP observed that although it was undoubt-
edly that the present Bishop of Derry had accepted that see
upon the understanding that it was to be subject to any deduc-
tions that might be decided upon, without any limit whatfwer.
Yet in hia (Lord Althorp's) opinion, upon the construction
of that understanding. it would not be expedient that
he should be placed in a worse situation as Bishop of Derry
than he was as Bishop of Killaloe. He did not object to the
proposition of Lis Hon. Friend, as he had now brought it for-
ward, but he should have given his decided opposition to it if
its effect had been to place the Bishop of Derry in the situa-
tion to which he had alluded.

Mr. SHIEL did not rise to make any objection to the
present Bishop of Derry retaining double the income he en-
joyed as Bishop of Killaloe. They were at once adopting the
example of reducing the salaries of the Bishops, but were
they aware that while they were diminishing their revenues
they were doubling their patronage? For example,
they were combining Raphoe with Derry, and at the same
time throwing the whole of the patronage of the former
into the latter for the purpose of compensating for the
reduction of the salaries, that it was much better, when
they had merged one bishopric into another, instead
of extending the patronage, they should convey it at once
to the Crown—; Hear—or even to the Commissioners.—Hear.)
He particularly called the attention of the House to
that fact. There was a church reform, and yet the patronage
of Bishops in Ireland was doubled by it. Besides the reduction
of salary was founded on the present actual salary, and
not on the real duties to be performed. If 4,0001. was enough
for A, wisp should B receive 5,0001., and C 8,0001. ? There
was no fair adjustment, no proporton in the case, and
condemning the past augmentation of patronage, the
reduction which had tal;en place was far from meeting the jus-
tice of the case, so that the real nuisance was substantially
untouched.— (Hear, hear.) The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman, in conclusion, declared his intention,
on the third reading of the Bill, to bring up a
clause by way of rider for reducing the salaries of the Irish
Bishops.
After some further discussion, in which Mr. O'Connell, Sir
R. Inglis, Sir R. Peel, and other Members, took part, the
House adjourned till 5 o'clock, when the discussion would be
renewed.

Of 4S (Teller include
that three of the C
"not being in holy
Aglionby, H. A.
Hewes, T.
Blake, J. M.
Buller, C.
Briggs, R.
Brotherto', J.
Brocklehurst, J.
Chapman,
' Curteis E. B.
Evcris, G.
Evans, W.
Faithful!, G.
Finn, W. F.
Fit zsimon,
Handler, B.
Hurst, R. H.

MINORITY
cl) who voted for Mr. Lloyd's amendment,
:hurch Commissioners should be persons
orders."
Jervis, J. Talbot, J.
Lambert, 11. Tayleure, W.
Leech.. Todd, J. R.
Lister, E. C. Tynte, C. K.
Molesworth, Sir W. Trelawney, W. L. S.
O'Dwyer, A. C. Vigors, N. A.
O'Connor Don Wallace, R.
O'Connor, F. Wallace, T.
,O'Ferrall, R. M. Walker, C. A.
Parrott, J. Ward, H. G.
Roc •e, W. Whalley, Sir S.
Roebuck, J. A. \Wks, J.
Scholefield, J. White, S,
Sheil, R. L
IStanley, E.

r TELLER.
Lloyd, J. H.

OLD BAILEY-(THIS DAY.)

This morning these Sessions commenced, before Mr. Justice
J. Parke, Mr. Justice Gaselee, the Lord Mayor, Recorder, &c.
OLD COURT.
. THE CALTHORPE.STREET AFFAIR.

George Furscy, whose trial had been postponed from the
last Session, was placed at the bar, charged with stabbing
John Brook, a police constable in Calthorpe-street, on the 13th
of May, with intent to do him some grievous bodily harm.
The prisoner, who on his apprehension was very meanly
dressed, appeared now in a good suit of clothes, and had alto-
gether a respectable appearance.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL (with whom was Mr. Wightman)
appeared for the prosecution. The Learned Gentleman said
he would not make either statement or comment in this case
The prisoner's counsel, according to the present state of the
law, had no power to address the Jury, and as he believed that
one side ought not to have a privilege not possessed by the
other, he would make no statement of the facts, but leave them
to be given in evidence by the witnesses, feeling convinced
that the verdict, whatever it was, would be perfectly satisfac-
tory to the country.
John Brook-1 do not now belong to the police, but to the
Lincoln Militia. I am Sergeant-major in that Militia, and was
appoit.ted on the 4th June. I lad been upwards of twelve
months in the C division of police. On the kith May, I was
called out about 12 o'clock. We went from St. James's watch_
house to the Riding.schooi in Gray's Inn.lane. We got to
the Riding.school about 2 o'clock, and remained there about
an hour. I was then ordered to march in the right sub.
division. There were about 40 men in that sub-division.
We
marched round Gray's Inn-lane into Calthorpe-street, whe• e I
saw a vast number of people coming apparently from the
fields at the other end of the street. There were several

hundreds, the street,: being full of them, About the centre of
the street I saw a person with a banner fulled up in his left
hand. 1 saw him some paces before he got where I was. The
b inner appeared a sort of American banner—white and red.
The prisoner was the person who carried the banner. When he
came in the centre of the street where I was, he raised his right
hand, and struck me in the sixth rib on the left side. Before
then I had done nothing. I had never rose my staff, nor
struck any one, nor saw any body else attempt to do so. I
only commanded the subdivision. The blow was with the
right hand, and the instrument was something like a dagger
about seven or eight inches long. The hilt of it was brass.
After I had received the blow, I retired back two or three
paces; I then looked particularly at the prisoner, and saw an
instrument like a dagger in his right hand. My wound was a
very severe one, and I was obliged to leave the division. A
constable, named Redwood, who was on my left, ran towards
the prisoner, and I saw him and the prisoner, and other con-
stables scuffling. I went towards the fields and met a sergeant,
who took me to a doctor to have my wound dressed. It bled
very much. It was eight or nine days before I was able to go
about. When the wound was probed, it was found that the
dagger had struck the sixth rib.
Cross-examined by Mr. PHILLIPS—My rib was not broken.
I got the situation in the Lincoln Militia since this affair;
Lord Portmore is the colonel. I don't know how many
divisions, or subdivisions, there were on this occasion.
I had my sight until I was wounded, and then my sight was
taken away. Ctwld not say whether there were 1,200 policemen
or not. All had truncheons that I knew of. I did not see the
hustings or railings. I slid not see that the people were doing
all they could to get out of the way of the police. I could not
see further than the end of the street, but I saw none of the
people endeavouring to get away. The people came down upon
our division, as I supposed to drive them out of the street.
All my sub-division had truncheons to the best of my know-
ledge. They were paraded before they left the Riding-school,
and I saw that they there had truncheons. My men did not
march to the ground with their truncheons resting on their left
arms. I gave them no orders to draw their truncheons. I
cannot say whether that part of the subdivision in my sight
nad their truncheons out. They might have had their trun-
cheons out. My subdvision were between thirty and forty. Will
not swear there were not fifty, but there were not sixty. When
we attempted to get down the street I did not consider the
people peaceable, but 1 cannot swear that there was a single act
of violence until I was stabbed. When I was going towards
the mob, the people were scuffling with the police. Directly
after that I was stabbed. When I saw the people and police
scuffling, I saw none of the latter using their truncheon 7. 1
.-.aw some of them with truncheons, but saw none of them use
them. I was not examined at the inquest on the policeman
who was killed. I don't know who is the prosecutor in this
case ; I incur no expense that lam aware of. I gave no in-
structions.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he thought it could not be
doubted that it was a public prosecution, and that he attended
here in his official capacity.
Mr. Pntm.ies said he wanted to show that it was a Govern-
ment prosecution, and that all the power of Government was
against the poor prisoner. The LearnedSolicitor-General had
pompously said he would not make a speech on his opening the
case, but he (Mr. Phillips) thought that circumstance was
against and not in favour of the prisoner.
Mr. Justice GASELEE said no one could doubt that it was a
public prosecution; and the Solicitor-General had with the
greate.it fairness and liberality alluded to the Bill in Parliament
in favour of which he was strenuously exerting himself, to
allow prisoner's counsel to address a jury, and he had given
the prisoner one of the benefits of that Bill before it was
passed—at all events he had refused to make a statement,
as the prisoner's counsel could not address the jury.
The witness proceeded—l do not know a man in the police
of the name of Popay. I may know him by another name.
I never heard the name of Popay in the police. I have not
seen a man of that name here to-day. I don't know that any
policemen were on the ground in plain clothes that day. I
saw none of the people wounded on that day ; nor did I see
any women or children knocked down or bleeding in the
streets. I don't know whether when before the magistrate I
said that after I was struck I retired two or three paces, and
then turned back and looked particularly at the prisoner. I
believe I did say so.
The Learned Counsel directed the policeman Popay to be
called in and confronted with the witness.
Popay, it will be recollected, was the person who was corn.
plaincd of by a petition presented to the House of Commons,
as being a spy in the service of the police.
Witness—l don't recollect whether I ever saw him before.
I never spoke to him or saw him to my knowledge. He is no
acquaintance of mine. The word of command was given at
the riding-school to draw truncheons, and I believe the order
was obeyed. Colonel Rowan was in Gray's.inn-lane. Did
not see Lord Melbourne that day. Before being in the police
was twenty-five years in the Guards. Left the Guards on my
own account. No courtmartial or court of inquiry was ever
held on me. Did not hear cries of " Shame " from the in-
habitants in Caithorpe-street. After I was stabbed, I saw
the prisoner in a stable or coach-house. I did not then say,
" That's the man, because he carried the death and liberty
flag." Did not hear any other person say so. There were
fifty or sixty persons in that stable or coach.house, but not all
policemen. When I got in, the prisoner was called for-
ward by name, and I identified him. That was an
hour and a half or two hours after I was stabbled. I don't
recollect seeing any wounded men in the stable. The priso.
ner was bleeding at the side of his face, but I saw no wound.
I did not see that his head was bandaged. I did not perceive
that lie had been violently treated.
Re-examined—l was twenty-five years in the lit Grenadier
Guards, and I was entitled to my discharge at twenty.one
years. I was at the Battle of Waterloo.
By Mr. Justice JAMES PARKE—I observed no one try to
take the flag before I was struck. 1 did not try to take it.
Henry Charles Redwood examined by Mr. WICIITNIAN—
Was a police constable of the C division on time 13th of May.
The last witness was my sergeant. When we got into Cal-
thorpe-street, we found a mob of people coming from the fields,
and saw a flag, which I have now to produce, carried by the
prisoner. (The flag was produced. It was a red and white
striped flag, with stars in one corner, and a blue ground.) The
prisoner carried the flag furled in his left hand. He came
from the right-hand corner of Calthorpe-street, and I left my
rank to get the colours from the prisoner; and while doing so,
Brook said, " Hold." That was before I got to the prisoner.
Brook was in front of the prisoner, and then the prisoner
passed Brook. I lost sight of Brook, but kept my
attention to the prisoner. I then went up to him
and demanded the colours. He refused to deliver
them, and I said I would take them from him ;
then seized the flag with both hands, and at that moment he
raised his right hand, in which I saw a blade, terminating in
a point, about six or eight inches in length. I then struck
him with my staff for my safety. Before I struck him I raised
up my left arm to ward off the blow, and I received a stab in
the arm, I struck him somewhere on the head, and then
collared him and took him into custody. The wound I received
was a three-sided one.
Mr. CLARKSON objected to this evidence, as it was the subject
of another charge
Their Lordships overruled the objection.
Witness—Theinstrument was afterwards found in the stable.
When I took him into custody I delivered him over to Hoiland
and Compton of the C division, and they took him away.
Mr. PHILLIPS and Mr. CLARKSON objected to the admission
• of evidence respecting the nature of the witness's wound, in
aggravation of this case, because it was the subject of another
indictment.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL contended, that it was evidence
in this case, merely to show the prisoner to be in possession of
some instrument, and not to put the witness's wound as a part
of this case.
Their LORDSHIPS admitted the evidence, but took a note of
the objection.
Witness—My wound was a three-edged one. I am a native
of Rickmansworth, and was once at St. Alban's. Never was
there on any charge that I know of. I was indicted there for
au assault. That fact just came to my knowledge on a sudden.
That was the only charge ever brought against me. I know
Giltspur-street Compter. I was taken there once wrongfully.
I don't consider that a charge. I was not confined there.
I had got some property of my own, and another
man wanted it, and I would not let him have
it ; and was taken there and liberated immediately. Have been
in the police two years last April. I was not charged
Giltspur-street Compter with a felony. Can't recollect what
the property was, Out I bought it and paid for it ; a watch and
a gown were among it. The man accused me of stealing.
the property. I bought the watch fur my wife, in 1824, of Mr
Attwell of Uxbridge, whose name was on it. Gave 5/. for it.
I have sioce got other property from that man, which he had of
mine. He had possession of my property because he lived in
the same house as I did. My wife told roe he got the pr -
perty from her, but I don't know why he got it. Since I have
been in the police, there has been no charge of intemperance
against me. There was never any report against me. Never
was put on what was called Station-house duty in consequence
of intemperance ; was never confined to in-door dut) in crise.
quence of any charge against me ; was once put as turnkey at St.
James's station-house, but not in consequence of any charge
against me. The subdivision commanded by Brooks consisted
of fi om 22 to 26, but not 30. We did not parade in Dawson's
riding-house. There were from 400 to S(X) in the riding-house.
There was no examination to see if we had our staves, Sic. ;
we had some string tied round the staves, so that we might
not lose them. We were the first subdivision that left Daw-
son's livery-stables for Calthorpe-street. An order was
given to us by superintendent Baker, to draw our
staves, and Brooks drew his. -Brooks was in front of me.
saw no policeman spit in his hand to grasp his staff the
stronger. When we got into Calthorpe-street, we were twelve
or thirteen abreast, and in the middle of the road. I heard
hooting and hallooing, and saw brick bats and stones flying.
Saw about a dozen brick bats and stones. Did not
hear any cries but the shouting of the mob ; the
mob to the number of 200, were coming towards Gray's Inn-
lane, as fast as they could come. The meeting had dispersed
at that time. I don't know that those persons who were com-
ing towards Gray's Inn-lane were pursued by the police. The
people separated on each side of us, and got out of the way. It
is our business to keep our ranks till ordered otherwise,
or till we see a breach of the peace. The prisoner was carrying
the flag and leading the others, at the same time waving the
flag. I heard him shouting something. I was examined be-
fore the Coroner. I told the Coroner I heard Brooks cry out
" Oh 1" I did not tell the Coroner that Fursey raised up his
hand as if to strike, and that then I struck him over the head
with my staff I cannot tell why I did not then state it. I did
not purposely conceal that. I thought there was sufficient
evidence without it. I did recollect it, and of course I omitted

HAY MARKETS.—(At per Load of 36 Trusses.)
CUMBERLAND.
Supply tolerably good, trade dull, and prices stationary.
Coarse tieaJy Lowland Meadow Hay £2 10 to Xi! 15
New Meadow Hay 3 5 3 10
Useful Old Ditto 3 10 4 0
Fine Upland Meadow and Rye-grass Hay 4 5 4 10
Cover Hay 3 5 5 5
Oat Straw £1 Sto £1 10 I Wheat Straw ... 1 10 1 13

SMITHFIELD.
Supply moderate, trade dull, and prices about stationary.
Coarse tv,avy Lowland Meadow Hay x 2 15 to £3 0
N,w Meadow Hay 3 0 3 5
Useful Old Ditto 3 5 3 15

COWES, JULY 2.—Nothing could surpass
the appeirance of our beautiful roadstead and town on the
arrival, yesterhay, of their Royal Highnesses the Duchess
of KENT and Princess VICTORIA, in the Eiliraid cutter,
baring the royal standard, towed majestically by the Mes-
senger steamer. On their approach, tile Castle, the Royal
Yacht Club, and other batterie•; on share, fired royal
salutes, as did also several of the R.Y.C. squadron, and
the Badger, Sprightly; and Adder, revenue cutters.
The display 0, flags, the yards manned, &c., constituted a
marine spectacle of no little beauty. In the evening there
was a display at firework.i.

THE-WEST INDIAN MEETlNG.—Yesterday
apu'.lC meeting was held at two o'clock at the Thatched-
ltouße tavern. S. James's-stre.t, consistilig of the principal
proprietors of West Indian estates, and of the I.igher classes
or persons connected with th_i coloniLl interests, directly
or indirectly, with the important commercial branches
with which the affairs of the colonies are immediately
concerned. The Earl of HAR.wcon was called to the
chair. About 180 persons were present. A very long
and dc,sultory conversation took place ; and, after several
ernottliutns paged on Mr. diuncE, it was agreed as a sort
of compriimise between Mr. K. DOUGLAS and Mr. BRIGHT
that :be Earl of lIAREWOOD should apply to the Right
Hon. Mr. STANLEY IO furnish a draft of the proposed
Bill to abolish negro slavery in the colonies, and that a
committee should be appointed to receive the same from
Earl of 11A!LEWOOD, and to report upon it to the
meeting on Friday next. The meeting, a+ about half after
sir, adjourned to Friday iit two o'clock, at WILLIS's
rooms, instead of at the Thatched house tavern.
A young lady of Exetor, about 14 years of
age, the only child of highly respectable parents, a few
days ago placed her life in jeopardy, by incautiously eating
camphor, not knowing the consequences of it. Having
tak-n an excursion to Builleigh Salterton, she there par.
took of some salad with which an onion had been mixed,
and for the purpose of destroying the unpleasant smell
occasioned hy the latter vegetable, she purchased at a
druggist's shop
a pennyworth of camphor, being a lump
about the size of a small walnut, the whole of which she
a•e. She then went to the beach for a walk, but was
soon after seiz,d with most violent symptoms of illness,
and was conveyed to the inn in a state of insensibility.
\lr. HUNTER was immediately sent for, and but for
the prompt and judicious treatment of the patient by that
gentleman, she would most probably have died.
HUMOROUS LETTER.—TeIe following bu-
, morous letter was addressed by a veteran to Admiral
BoscAwxx
" 8111,-1 had the honour of being at the taking of Port
Mahon, for which one gentleman was made a Lord; I was also
at the losing of Mahon, for which another gentleman has been
made a Lord: each ~f those ge..tlemen performed but one of
those services; surely I, who performed both, ought at least to
be made a Lieutenant. Which is all from your honour's humble
servant," &c.—York Courant.