The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, L
.OND

Illeelerer.lllllell less
the laity, had been consulted on the this Papal aggression now, they would have to withstand
considered it vras, in some sort, an aggression it hereafter, whirl it would have greater power.
Itirh'l,,,,
"the i
rights vested in her Majesty's subjects. They had beard appeals made 'von the More of conscience,
e. evile for the division ot the dioceses of Cloyne and t with reference to this Matter. He would ask them whether
Rots -r
do 11 Ireland had its origin in Ireland, and the Pope had 1 the introduction of the word conscience was to be a spell for
l neee, ueutt)hieg more than confirm the arrangement which had 1 which they were to be bound. 'that might be pleaded in a
s
he lotted to him on the subject. In that case there very extraordinary sense. It was put forwent in the case of
h let been lotted
o aggression ; and consequently there had not Archbishop Franzoni, in Sardinia, who claimed exemption
haan7 thmg to jastify the monstrous attempt to include for ecelesiastice from the jurisdiction of the civil courts, and
lin hia.l° the provisions of that mesaure. He thought that that they should be all subject to the ecclesiastical courts
lanaticrBtY's Government had come to a very proper deter- alone. The Government of that country repudiated this as-
%well when they had resolved on not extending the sumption, and maintained it. Yet the resistance presented
bet cr! ts in the Bill beyond the requirements of the case; in that case to the Government was called a matter ot con-
ny ~reY lead carried tenet detertnin -tion fully into effect, science. In this case, the assumption of territorial titles was
the a°ll_ lel have confined the operation of the measure to called a matter of conscience. He would ask what had
afeeo'of a foreign power conferring titles in this country, territorial possessions to do with the domain of the
kb, w uld not have extended it to the conduct of British spirit ? The Honourable and Learned Member for Ply-
the't.iri assuming certain titles. He had further to say, mouth said that for the exercise of the liberty of conscience,
neat any case the Bill ought not to be extended be- they required that they should use these titles, and ob-
lik 'le country in which the alleged aggression had served that they were legislating against the natural
bathe laoe- The Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member use of language. They had on other occasions, bow -
the city of Oxford (Mr. P. Wood) had talked a good ever, legislated against the natural use of language.
the Kett,the canon law of the Roman Catholic Church ; but They did so after the expulsion of James H., when they pro-
teinie and Learned Gentleman had in his (Mr. Anstey's) hibited the assumption of the title of James 111. in his son.
Tee '' evinced but a very-imperfect knowledge of that law. (Hear, hear.) The legislated against the natural use of
fast was, that the canon law varied in different coup- language when they found it necessary to repress a moral
no:eat:Li-for his part he trusted that some measure would wrong committed against any individual or any portion of
the "" taken, if not directly, at least indirectly, to prevent the body politic. They called this Bill a persecution, and
ebilrension 'to this country of that jus eanonicum from also argued that it would be inoperative. He would ask
itise iet,i,le extracts of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had how could that be called a persecution which confined itself
he aeelli ' instead of the ancient canon law of England. to forbid a foreign potentate from conferring territorial titles
the ase7oved there would be great difficulty in reconciling within these kingdoms. This was a new plea. It was not
VateTursoe , n law of England with that new canon law which argued that territorial titles were necessary in 1829, when
try "4', Willman seemed anxious to extend to this coon- the Roman Catholic Emancipation Act was passed, which
tee'esteface was, that the new canon law was not the was received by the Roman Catholic clergy, although it forbid
S, lv of England, in which there was a distinction be- the use of territorial titles which they used before. It struck
?l-Plaituals and temporals, bat the canon law of the him forcibly that if there was any persecution in the case, it
aili thtates, in which no such distinction was known. The was on the part of the Pope against the Roman Catholic laity,
en
under their consideration dealt not with a real who were forced to adopt ultra-montane opinions. It was said
eleko,Uto, but was framed in compliance with a popular pre. it would be inoperative. The Bill, no doubt, disappointed
4,0 in It was,- in fact, insufficient in one sense, and execs- many. It was weakened in the withdrawal of two clauses,
tateoeitoother. 1 t would give no protection to the Roman but the residue was in one respect exceedingly valuable as
lleeeeee° laity in England, while it was most improperly and a Parliamentary protest against this aggression- (Hear)-by
hee7.!iarily to be extended to Ireland. On these grounds which it would be proclaimed that it was denounced by the
otth'':old certainly give his vote against the second reading Queen, by her nobles, and by her people. He thought the
thelllossure • • . . case required some authoritative declaration of this sort.
re
eeeASHLEYe notwithstanding all that had been saidon The Court of R me insidious and worldly, wise, used all its
Neillject, would, revert to the first question-" should the appliances to familiarise the people of this country to a pro-
tile re kite or should it not, legislate upon this subject?" minent church. They constantly saw advertisements in the
Wu:Asserted that they should. The rights and liberties papers of services to be performed in Roman Catholic
eke IS.:_e class of her Majesty's subjects had been invaded, churches.-(An ironical " Hear, hear.") He did not wish
'k er. e who opposed the aggression were denounced as il- to prevent that; he muted the fact to them, the design on
hes: • They, did not. however, anticipate-they did not foot, to familiarise the people with the Church of Rome, and
eisejethat a British Peer-would denounce the proposed le- in order also to put the people on their guard against these
Iltie'll against the Papal aggression, as "persecution," efforts. The same priests, walking through the streets in
letetrdid they foresee that British senators would denounce their peculiar costume, and soon they would have before
PlCllouse those who considered the aggression corn- their view the pomp of a gorgeous hierarchy.-(Hear, hear.)
ifiece" of as a lawful ground for the defence of the Queen His object was, not to prevent that, but he thought they
Ilheer Government in this country. Should they, then, were bound in duty to make a declaration that these were
Neaeleeeed the step taken as an aggression and an insult, the works, and for the behoof of a power they repudiated
Yr. Id they not come to the assistance of the Sovereign ? and utterly abhorred.-(Hear, hear.) They should look to
ifte;euld be show that this movement of the Pope was an the real peril of the case. They were mistaken if they be-
,,tetts4e inroad on tbe prerogative of the sovereign of this lieved that Rome was changed, or harmless, or incapable.
11441 Ihe thought it would not be disputed that the Par- Milton had foreahown what was her policy when he said,-
t11:14, Was called upon to legislate on the subject. One " Then shall they seek to avail themselves of names,
foesiauowever, had said that everything done to oppose the Places, and titles, and with these to join
Isk 14 the step he had taken amounted to persecution, Secular power, though feigning still to act
tteetilue interference with the free exercise of his spiritual By spiritual . . .
hake"- Now if that doctrine was admitted, it would ime And from that pretence
kot Don the Protestant subjects of this realm absolute sub- Spiritual laws, by carnal power, shall force
teee?tl to the decrees of the Pope. The Legislature of this On every conscience."
44-tstry had made concessions to the Roman Catholics by the Rome was not changed.- (Hear, bear.) Those who spoke
nil of 1829, and it was not, he must say , thouht, when of her with contempt were the most likely to become her
SeLetestants of this country had consented tomake those victims. " The history of the world," says Ranke, " does
'sole7,°oe'- concessions which had made their Roman Ca- not present a time in which the clergy were more powerful
tteeitt tellow-subjects equal with themselves-that they than at the end of the 16th century. They sat in King's
ttiat. " placed by any act of the Pope in a subordinate po- councils, and discussed politica: matters before all the people
ueeej-(llear hear.) There was another party in this from the pulpit; they governed schools, learning,
afforded, whole domain of letters; the confessional
I;iirti ,who wis'hed:for legislation on this subject, and in his
ael Ashley's) opinion they were now deliberatinganot on them opportunity of prying into the se-
heect which would have a mere transient effect, `but" cret conflicts of the soul, and of deciding in all
lteeerd n a subject which, if not checked by legislation, the difficulty and doubtful circumstances of private life."
ekte,,e'euwe a dominant influence on the institutions of this In France the power she had lost was restored in 1815. '
tt a La' Ile must say that, of all the measures which had In 1830 she suffered something, but afterwards regained
!ear introduced into this country, this of the Pope had her power, and in Austria ruled with. undiminished power.
INbore than any other to disturb the privileges en- The effect in France was perceptible, for the charter
`414 ,7 the Roman Catholics, than whom, he must say, was there revoked as regarded Protestants, and in
fact they were placed in as hard a condition as they were
asejeld not exist a more loyal or more deserving class of
Si-f.s•--(Hear and cheers.) The Protestants of England under Louis the Fourteenth by the revocation of the edict of
eal/led that 'this step o which the Pope of Rome-a Nantes. The condition of the Pr aestants was worse now in
lasso priest and potentate-bad been guilty was a viola- France than
iat was under Napoleon
or any of
in the
an prece
Sl,'" only of the law of nations, but of the law of this monarchs of France ;in , worse than y fording mer
‘4ti -11Iear, and cheers)-and a deliberate innovation on period, excepting the Dragonades. It could not be required
„ktliPat.eroaative of, and offence offered to, the Queen of this of them to support such a power as that, or to give facilities
met ea,
(Renewed cries of " Hear.") He maintained that to promote its ends. It was an ecclesiastical power spread
`stt il'll had violated the law of nations, and he would prove over the whole world, under a perfect system of discipline,
tato, nea, reference to the Papal brief to restore the Roman with one heart. The Wesleyan Methodists, Church of Scot-
let he.'ie heirarchy. The Noble Lord here quoted the follow- land, and the Free Church of Scotland, the Free Episcopa-
taClaage from ill° Papal brief ;-" We, of our own proper lien Church of England, need not be denied synodical action
orila,ea on certain knowledge, and of the plenitude of our because they. were not subject to a foreign. power. Thee'
of En
'power, constitute and decree that in the king- were British in all respects, but because this was projected
ta" England, according to the common rule of the by the Pope of Rome, that was the reason why they abhorred
IV, there be restored the hierarchy of ordinary bishops, it, and would never submit to the synodical action
*all b
,h, e named from sees, which w constitute in these of bishops under the influence of a foreign power, who
le a 'ners. To begin with the donorLo istrict, there will would exercise their spiritual influence for political
It was on these grounds that they offered
to ch it two sees, that of Westminster, which we elevate purposes.
Sedegree of metropolitan or archiepiscopal dignity. it an uncompromising and indignant resistance. Though
`4tr' then, in the most flourishing kingdom of England he respected the religions opiniens of the Noble Earl
of Arundel and Surrey), yet he should say that
t,fe will be established one ecclesiastical province, con- (Earl
tte:rige of one archbishop and twelve bishops, his suffragans. too much power was assumed by the Pope of Rome, and
lla 1, tore, we new reserve •to ourselves and our successors, thee such an extraordinary exercise of power should be
keeac,nitiffs of Renee, the power of again dividing the said checked. He did not want that any coercive law should be
wee into others, and of increasing the number of dio- introduced, but he required that the Protestant Church
e'ere; din general that, as it shall seem fitting in the should be preserved against the insidious attacks of the
mete we may freely decree our limits to them." Was Court of Rome.-( Hear, bear.) When he looked to other
ItenlltlYthing, he would ask, more imperious than the countries which would not allow any innovation on the
Mail ge
ate of the Pope of Rome as expressed in that brief rights of their fellow-citizens, he felt at a loss to know why
treeelage in which he claimed to exercise a sovereignty any trueborn Englishman should submit to the insult and
,te goes
realm ?-(Hear and cheers.) He would now refer indignity lately offered to this country by the Papal autho-
teinse to the argument used by Dr. Twiss in reference rity through its emissaries.-(Hear, hear.)
ecttr-ti° question. Dr. Twiss, a learned civilian, said-" The Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT did not see any danger in the
if proceedings of . the Roman. C itholic
.hierarchy in this coun-
,lttirnellt could not have been externally more complete,
e‘tlieten of England had plaeed her realm, at the disposal try. In his opinion, if it was considered necessary by the
;,(111e-I,"'°lY See for all ecclesiastical purposes, -nor could the Government to strike out the second and third clauses from
:40614ve dealt with his own territory in a more free and the measure, it was as necessary to strike out the first, for if
I'llie'eraanner. But, if there be any one principle of law those two clauses placed such obstacles as they were said to
do in the way of Roman Catholics holding that faith which
kkteaulis received the sanction of that high usage and
~..„ which constitutes it a binding obligation on all the they had a right to hold, the first clause placed as much
,it.ti;': °T Chestendom, it is this, that the Pope cannot set restriction upon them as the other two, and therefore it
see "et of a bishop within the territory of an independent ought to be struck out also.-( Hear.) What would be the
lee e
.Without his consent. Common sense suggests that effect of the first clause? They professed to be great ad-
Ineeutaera than the sovereign power of the land can vecates and admirers of civil and religious liberty, but
koe a see within the land. The Pope may give a bishop the first clause rendered invalid any document signed by a
lab'ell, i. e., may authorise him to go forth as the spiritual bishop, and no legal effect could be given to it. ' Now that
kinitisador of the Holy See; but that the Pope should esta- was a most unjust attack, and would lead to the worst
1t1g4.4 territorial seat for his bishop in the realm of a Sove- consequences. For instance, as regarded the ordination of
eine llower without its consent, would be to usurp an attri- priests, the bishop who conducted the ordination had to sign
~,tt,„°f local sovereignty, and to take Possession of the land the certificate of ordination of er the name of his see, and
tkieles iastical purposes ;" and Lord Stowell, as cited by consequently to assume those titles which the clause prohi-
Neeivuoi, says, that " a course of conduct to be legal must bited. Now, should the clause pass, that would be an
e'nes.'wn to be conformable to the usage and position of ac- illegal and invalid certificate. The priest whose ordination
it was intended to certify would be considered in law to be
,e at .A. great part of the law of nations stands on no other
no priest. The marriages celebrated by that priest would
~,Pktl`t°o•" New he (Lord Ashley) maintained that that
nee-a that the Pope had been guilty of an interference with be invaid, and the children, the issue of such marriages,
would be illegitimate children.-(Hear, hear.) But sup
kl (ereteikr°gative of the Queen, and a- violation of the law of
that his Hon. Friend he Member. for East Surrey
the— (near.) He would refer the House to an extract posing
east 4 opinion of Dr. Twits. relating to the temporalities (Mr. 11. Drummond) succeeded in restoring those second and
eseti be kept in mind," said learned civilian, " that: third clauses of the Bill in Committee, which he wasp bound
klanceileoralities were a civil; accident of the sees, into to say that Hon. Gentieman had every reason to exect he
'let their
were put in possession by an act of the Crown, would be enabled to do, what would be the consequence
test,o heir consecration had taken place at the house of the then ? Why, the consequence must inevitably be, that Go-
, elp teibthditan. It was not, therefore, in any way, by reason vernment would be obliged to vote against the third reading
ellelia,Poralities being connected with the sees of the of their own Bill.-(Hear, hear.) He confessed that to him
hivan " bishops over whom the Pope exercised ecclesias- it would be most painful to see things come to such a pass
Ittlisdietion, before the Reformation. that the Pope was as that. For some years past signs of peace and harmony
;IT%Claim and use an usurped authority ; it was not in had, to a great extent, prevailed between the Catholics
11 i „till matter, but in causes which he called spiritual, that and Protestants.-(Cheers from the Government benches.)
i' l, ;1' to dispense with the laws of the realm was disputed In regard to what had been said about toleration, he must
40
ile _ ea., Crowe of England, and ultimately declared to be un- say that the sentiments he had heard expressed in reference
?ellen. So much for the law of nations, and he (the Pope) to it, did not coincide with his views. One Hon. Member
gitZ3hovrit any more respect for the law of the land. had said that toleration was limited, that it mus - be kept
„etoehe, of 1829 was framed to protect the priviliges of the within bounds, so as that the persons tolerate I did not injure
and you ; and, in that case, the onus probandi lay with that
141.t0f the
of the. Established Church in this country ;
~t th e conditions put forward for passing that Act was Hon.
.Member to prove in what manner the privileges had
''`tit'ta' ere • should be no other ecclesiastical corporation been violated by the interference of the Pope. He also heard
p.'st 114 territorial power in this country; and ho held that the Hon. Barone.t, the Member for the University of Oxford,
uttet a sentence in favour of toleration-(Laughter)-but his
'st tilltd been violated. He would go further, and say
samehear, oa pa idn i
eau
titer.
stetrhoe Hon.xo
w ,Ba
neitherro et waso
iel: ‘. lipssatolic letter had violated the law of the opinion of the matter was, that the person tolerated must be
V4:'',ltit he was now quoting from the "authorised ver-
(o of
I the
ha
er. ,
OW the 'Latiii-Brief, ' printed and published bz
--",i` ttf'er, atethg Metropolitan Catholic priuting- office.' structions he would put on the term toleration. His impres-
tlhioimsesecifo.-n-
-,4% extract it appeared that the Pope had ap- s=on was, that in this country whether a man held religious
' at ~a bishop to the Protestant see of St. David's truth or error as. the ground of his belief, being an English-
Oh)4, act was this :-" In the district of Wales there will man, he had a right to hold that truth or error, because he
inveigled • e that of ShrewshurY, and that of Menaira believed such to be the truth.-(Hear.) No doubt the argu-
tee t• 11 •Pr,l -• • • yki
e• Ige , avias a unite with -ewport we meant adduced by those who supported the measure, were
all very good as directed against the Roman Catholic reli-
-154,4 Lo the Bishop of St. David's and Newport, as his
li Itt 01, the counties of Pembroke," &c. Now he must say gion. But he denied the correctness of their mode
),liitc'ere was something very insiduous in this.-(Hear, of reasoning. Were they prepared to say, that while they
were members of the Established Church, they weuld not
.t0°414 eaAnd should they allow it to pass without notice, it
s"' some future time be said, should objection be raised tolerate that religion , but hedge round that Church with
enactments, as a means of preventing its operation? He
PieliteP, that the House, when legislating on .the subject,
notice, and made no objection to it. The bishopric was a sincere member of the Established Church himself,
I,lf*
ey was a case in point, and referred to by Cardinal but he confessed that be thought such enactments would
1144,4,11. in these words :-" Bat there has been a more re- rather weaken than strengthen that Church, by rendering it
latreale. instance of the exercise of the Papal supremacy in obnoxious in the eyes of the world. His rotion of tole a-
Galway i not an tion was this - they tolerated all religions, they admitted to
%a et,lon of bishoprics nearer home.
l'ent/eet see until a few years ago. . . . . . It was seats in that House Members of all religious denominations
'i tae by a warden ..... The Holy See changed who were Christians, and while they had an Established
lia! 'ram
~-.4%ensbip into a bishopric. . e • • Bishop Church, they gave the fullest liberty and license to every
Nee lias conseeratedlin -October, 1831. No rernon- form of religious faith under the voluntary system. True,
flatial. was made, no outcry raised at this exercise of if they thought the voluntary system wrong, they ought to
all - Mater:" Now there was a case nearer home. vote in favour of the measure; but so far as he was con-
lk /ellY • •made a bi- cern
tar , within the last few years, had been . .
h
ed, he did not think it wrong,,, and his reason for not
Si4o, and Dr. Browne was appointed bishop of that dio. doing so was, that he knew the Churc of England was
Ter-Meta, hear.) Thus it was clear that the steps taken not able to cover the ground. However, that was
1tri,,7,;41 Pope were highly improper as interfering with the the state in which they were placed in this country,
.
kgative of the Cr-own, and an- insult offered to the Queen having an Established Church tolerating all religions,
realm,- (Hear, hear, and givingcheers ) 13e (Lord Ashley) and
the greatest liberty and license to all.
dad that it was an interference ;Rh the functions of Because he was a member of the Established Church
lleellneen, and if not checked, who, he would ask, could was he going to ask a man whether he belonged to this
loth what would be the consequence of the Apostolic brief or that Church, or what were his opinions in regard
tee le Protestant institution of this country ?-(Hear, hear, to matters of. faith and doctrine, and all such, before
which,,the members of that Church enjoy.-- y e'
te4fo,,tiq cheers.) was there, he would ask, ever, any act of he would admit him to the same privileges as a free citizen,
s Ali •-,1 It the ^ave
.4* gn potentate or foreign state more insulting than
Net,ololent brief?-Hear(, hear.) It the Parliament would tolerionanind itisv.proper sense, it was ridieulons to put such
111:',T, Queen and the country would not.-(llear, hear.) queries;nad thy to plevenift, aasn toleratred to
, t,,,,..,,J GORMAN MAHON-The Queen? take all proper means for carrying they did, that toleration,. what i,,
system of religi-
Zia V. ASHLEY-The Crown would not yield. Whom
ous belief. And that led himr m-of the aggres-
nee'erope sent to take possession of the kingdom? A
s=on by the Pope, so much talked theb question
gdoeuntomthieniartna
tion was concerned, it was notorious to allf that as
Zell ° the Church, a noble of his own Court. The ,
' out.
Soa
for a long
i'4,theWhich that person had used were remarkable, Period the Pope of Rome had this country marked out and
likoieeriteyollwould not forget the tones of that dulcet
divided into districts and dioceses, over which he had placed
that ques-
ON .1, • It reminded him of the animal with %%two
By vicars apostolic. And he wanted to know in what respect the
ititf ,1,14 q a ram which spoke like a dragon." changes of late made in the establishment ofh'erarchy in
Itit us,
9th of September, his Holiness was pleased to ap- lace of that, could affect either their status aor 'their privi-
IttstaAtt ough most unworthy, to the archiepiscopal see of fea. • •
and, in respec .
might talk to him of lane
e,eaaa Bter, established by letters apostolic, giving us, at es, civil or religious? They
gas,
e but that was another thing; and • t to that,
4 tith;te time, the administration of the episcopal see of
ke°la neltrk, so that at present, and until such time as the he gm'iaht state that sounding w
tensions on the part of ecclesiastics; who little
wise toprovide, Ctll `l5 shall think fit oteer we govern, and had got a
ii and high pre-
ewer' conferred upon them. was no new thing, and ought
k-e'tl:neuent_inue to govern
~the counties tif Middlesex, Hertford P- • •
' not to astonish them, while, at the same time, he admitted
t, at, il_', as ordinary t ereohf., and those of Surrey, Sussex,
that the language of the Pope's bull and the manifesto of
4-ismtil•-•ie.r.ksshire, and Hamps ire, with
_the. islands annexed,
the Cardinal was of the most offensive description,- (Hear,
teen or ae trator with
.ordinary jurisd.iction," Such is the I
Bear.) It was said that one great evil attendant upon the
In ell'ethe letters missive of all the bishops taking jurisdic- I
,',leN der this authority. If they could mistake that, let means of intro-
' aggression would be that it would be the •
ducing the canon law into this country. But the canon law
iellith4treled to as extract which he would read to them, more or less, ever since the Refer - '
41 not important, as bearing upon this question. Thereenation.-
a ot [ (Hear, hear.) It e. is
a' red under the system of '
vicars aposto-
n .etle ,It child in the country who was ignorant of the 1 a
I had existed,
bet% eat career of Thomas A'Becket, who claimed for the 1 lic, or at all events such portions of it as the Pope chose to
enforce, while, at the same time, as he was told, those vicars
leat;°toilllitlion ever all the estates of the
.kingdom, and whose most offensive to the great majority of t Ho-
-1116 wh , was that the Church should ride roughshod overapostolic .
And then, again, in Ireland
4, e! ee?le realm. The extracts he wou read would show 1 man Catholic la ty. , theey had
there it did not clash with
ei. not f h • Here• t
ib tite i 0 t ese transactions. 'was one ex rac 1. . were
t, ' the whole canon law; but here,
the
and if the
et e f
4, mind you where and howhave been
- ,11 4- ro • I mini-lied
te he Nith? Is it. like that I shall be behind any other, , people. were emightened enough to resist the as-
, melllmovf, alsreliatnedvas pretended it would do
-41'•- e°Pli te or Catholicof ancient stock, in defending sumption of that law, who could doubt for a moment but that
ri y the Roman Catholics of England would do the same? In
felleh ens of m Lord and master ? The second altar at !
Pot knelt 'II 1 C' that, which marks the
ft
eah ,in the o y ay, was the next place, as to the synodical action, which the Attor-
ney-General had told them this measure was
revent so
Illt ereon Ste Peter cemented the foundations of his un- :
tlet4thrune with his blood. The first was that of our own ,e It was allowed
far as the. Roman Catholics were concerned,tat the' I 1 ' ,
eicaas
eitvseerryloullitairnerted tlpare ec•oenatatryh
that before
sSt. Thomas (of Canterbury). For 22 years I daily ' except the Estee-
Ot the body representation of his martyrdom ; at
blished Church, and it was not allowed in it be-
ttit ton'''. -1- partook even of the bread of life ; there, for the
cause that Church being e tabli,bed did rot require
the eph,e• I celebrated the divine mysteries ait I received I
e it. Perhaps it differed in forms in different denominations,
Lief., hecoPal consecration. He was my patron, he my fa- but in them all it in some shape or other,
al pet illY model. And, withdrawn from the symbels of ,
and why deny it to the existedßoman Catholics? They talked
ae roe.
i 'edit i age by the supreme will of the late Pontiff, I
of the `>> nod of Thurles, and they blame the bishops then
Lei c)riun. tray, tir:i of lit, r:hes at Sees, and with felvent • 1 'al ma
eeeemble;l for inteifetine- with e••• 1 - I tend oral term.
Ici to, nits acked and obtained the mitre which had crow tied . , . ~ • ' l' ' ."" . ' • those
les, tai , „„ - -of ~ ~ IN oil ,henas an assn mg party to the establishment ot .
-agile. ... newt. - '-i orus Peace and Justice, eN
et - colleges which called forth the
--4 illsonnua, 1838. If they did not witbotold I • • a difi g •
i oso/6111 IQ army , And by gmutta w tow WAWA-
strongest expression of their

ments because he thought they would be the means, by dif-
frising education among the middle classes in Ireland, of
greatly lienefitine that country; but had they never heard of
any of the clergymen racket In this country interfering with
secular affairs? Why, in 1845, when there was such a noise
and commotion
,in the country respecting the remcreal of the
Wee. on human food, had they not Dissenting ministers from
all parts of the tottetry meeting ln Manchester for the pur-
pose of considering how call could in his own district best
forward the repeal of the corn-laws.- (Hear, hear.) Cer-
tainly that was synodical action.. Some Hon. Members, in
proof of the tyranny and intolerance of the Roman Catholic
Church, had alluded to the Sicarli laws, but that was the
Church of Rome in Italy. It was monstrous to say that
there could be any comparison between the system here,
and. what was carried c n in Italy and Spain, and it was as
ridiculous to say that even if there was, they could get rid of
it by declaring that such a one, instead of being Archbishop
of Westminster, should be a Bishop of Melipotamus. But in
Ireland no danger was dreaded on the part of the Roman
Catholics who supported these colleges, notwithstanding that
they had been denounced by the bishops; for he found Sir
Robert Kasse, who was at the head of one of them, instead of
quailing before the manifesto of the bishops, coming forward
and boldly defending the rights both of Roman Catholic and
Protestant, in utter oblivion of all religious differences of
opinion. From the speech of Professor Kane he had derived
mu .h pleasure, and he would not conceal the spirit of satis-
faCtion with which he had witnessed the elL.ct produced on
the intelligent portion of the Roman Catholic mind in Ire-
land by the deliberations and resolve of the Synod regard-
ing the national colleges. So far from yielding slavish obe-
dience to the dictates of that body they had increased their
support of the colleges. The Honourable Baronet, the
Member for the city of Oxford, had aalsed why th•y did not
negotiate with Rome, and endeavour through diplomatic
agency to receive satisfactory apologies for the aggression
that had taken place. Now he was not certain that in the
eyes of Europe they should be justified in proceeding to those
extremities. If, as they had been advised by more than
one Hon. Member who took: part in the erscussion on the
Bit', they were to proceed in a hostile manner against the
Pope, might it not be asked, had they not, to a certain ex-
tent. given an invitation to an aggression of the description
now loudly protested against? There was much truth in the
statement that a proclamation might have got them out of
a struggle which threatened to be fatal to the tranquillity of
the country, and was likely to result in ridicule on them-
selves. But when they went striking out clauses, now said
to be unnecessary, and leaving an insufficient preamble to
the Bill, e state of inextricable confusion would be sure to
follow. In pursuing the course recommended by her
Majesty's Government they were striking a blow, not at
the Pope for au act of foreign aggression, but at the Roman
Catholics of England and Ireland,and this was:not the consti-
tutional mode of grappl ng with the difficulty. When the
Bill came to be properly understood It would be
regarded by the great bulk of the people as a
penal law, and he believed that the spirit of the English
people was decidedly adverse to persecution. Without
having one of the advantages expected from the measure,
they would be deluged in all its discredit. It might fairly
be characterised as a sham piece of legislation. If, as the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Solicitor-General said, the
conduct of the Pope was an act of invasion of the Royal
Supremacy, why were not the provisions of the Bill of 1820
put in force to stop it? The assumption of the title of
Bishop of St. David's was clearly a direct violation of a
clause in the act of 1829. Well, that being the case, why
did not the Government put the law in force, if they
really meant that the Bill now under consideration should
not remain a dead letter? But, in truth, the Bill was a Bill
to satisfy the feelings of the people, and at the same time to
deceive them. The feelings of the people, however, were
mistaken. The recent demostrations throughout the
country meant that the Roman Catholic religion was ad-
vancing, and that active steps should be taken to prevent
it. - (Hear, hear.) The people deprecated the enactment
of penal law. The question weighing upon their minds
was a religious question, and not a political question. Their
attachment to the reformed faith formed the groundwork of
objection to the progress of a religion which they regarded as
unscriptural. Public opinion could not be beaten down by
an Act of Parliament. For two hundred years that system
was tried with the Roman Catholic people of Ireland, but
ultimately the G Nernment had to yield to fear that which
should have been frankly given to justice. Were they now
going to retrograde and to adopt a course, of legislation
inconsistent with the character of this country ?
If they wished to repress acts of aggression by
foreign Powers-if they wished to prevent the introduction
of bulls-why not legislate, not against the Roman
Catholic community of this country, or against the Roman
Catholic Church, but against the foreign potentates who
committed those acts of aggression on the royal prerogative?
That was the practice pursued in other countries. He had
gone at greater length into the subject than he had intended,
but he would say this, that he did not think there was the
slightest fear to be es tertained for the increase of the Roman
Catholic body. He must add his belief that the doctrines of
the Church of Rome were foreign to the genius of the people.
The right of private judgment, to which they had long been
accustomed, they could not enjoy under its institutions. Let
them only look at the Index ex Purgatories, for a list of the
most excellent books which were prohibited on political
economy, history, and religion. Amongst them were the
" Scapulas Greek Lexicon," invaluable to a Greek student. If
he studied political economy, there was Jeremy Bentham ; if
history, there were Hume, Goldsmith, and Robertson ; or if
science, then he must not look into Chambers's Philosophical
Dictionary, or Locke, and a number of others, down to a
small tract, called " The .Dairyman's Daughter." Such a
system, therefore, was. in his opinion, unsuited to the habits
and spirit of Englishmen. Without intending any offence to
his Roman Catholic brethren, he must assert his confidence
in the truth of his own religious faith. A certain element of
persecution still remained, but anal that spirit was extir-
pated the work of the Reforination would not be complete.
Those who thought themselves Protestants because they
acted in hostility to those who were not so were not true Pro-
testants, and he believed the time was drawing near for the
triumph of the old maxim " Magna est veritas et preva'ebit,'
and when they would seek to meet Romish aggression in the
the
only way in which it could be met, by spread of our
Gospel principles, letting in light where darkness existed,
and trusting with confidence to Almighty God for the result.
Lord PALMERSTON said he must crave the indulgence
of the House for a few moments; but would take care he did
not encroach too much on their attention. There was, in-
deed, a great part of the speech they had just heard from his
Right Hon. Friend which belonged more properly to the
Committee than to the present stage of the; discussion-
(Hear, hear)-and there were some parts which he thought
it would better to leave for the further consideration of his
Right Hon. Friend, who, perhaps, if time had permitted,
might have settled some questions which at present appeared
to be undetermined in his own mind.-(A laugh.) First,
what he would do, objecting, as he did, to what the Go-
vernment had proposed; and next, perhaps, he might come
to a decision as to whether the Bill to which he objected
was a nullity or a persecution.-(A. laugh.) For his part
he would freely confess that he never remembered, since he
had had the honour of a seat in that House, any dis-
cussion that had been so painful to the mind as that in
which they were then engaged.-(Hear, hear.) He
had hoped that when the disabilities were removed
in the first place from the Dissenters, and afterwards
from the Roman Catholics, that discussions and contro-
versies on religious questions would never again be heard
within the walls of Parliament.-(Hear, hear.) He had
hoped that when they had established, not what gentlemen
called toleration,-for he, like others repudiated that word
- (Hear, hear)-and said that the principle that was estab-
lished was not the principle of religious toleration, but the
greater principle of religious freedom.-(Hear.) He had
hoped, he said, that when that principle of religious freedom
had been faily established by the Legislature of the country,
those odious controversies with regard to religious doctrines
would never again be heard within the walls of Parliament.
-( Hear.) But whose fault was it ?-(Hear.) Was it our
fault? (Hear.) It was not.-(Hear, hear.) We were
met by an act of aggression by a foreign authority-an ag-
gression of a political character - (Hear) -and in that re-
spect only would he address himself to it. It was an ag-
gression on the independent sovoricgnty of the country
which lie held it was our bounden duty to repel.-(Hear.)
He said the aggression was by a foreign authority. His Right
Hon. Friend had drawn a broad distinction between a foreign
sovereign and the 'Pope, and said that the measure might
have proceeded front the Pope, and when he might have been
driven from his throne and lodging in Brook-street ; but he
(Lord Palmerston) said that still the Pope would have been
a foreign authority, and it was because it was the act of a
foreign authority that he objected to the power the Pope
had attempted to exercise in the realm of England.- (Hear,
hear.) But it was said that this act was partly the fault of
the Government; that certain indulgences had been shown
to the Catholic episcopacy of Ireland ; that certain courtesies
had been shown to the priesthood of Ireland, and certain
opinions bad been expressed in debates in Parliament; and
that all those things, and, moreover, the silence of his noble
Friend three years ago at Rome, when a supposed paper was
shown to him, and he was said to have been told that that
regarded England ; and that after those things they had no
right to be surprised at what the Pope bad done, because he
was sufficiently borne out and encouraged in his expectations
that they would meet it with indifference. He did not think
those grounds were sufficient to justify the act. Either the
Pone thought the measures he attempted to adopt would
be agreable, or not at least disagreeable, to the Government
and the people of this country, or he would not care whether
they were agreeable or disagreeable to the Government and
the people.-(Hear.) If he attached any value to the cir-
cumstance that his measures would be acquiesced in by this
country, why did he not, in the three years that elapsed
since the supposed conversation with his Noble Friend, and
the period anterior to the publication of this Bill and other
letters -why did he not take those steps that were in his
power, to ascertain what was the opinion of the Government
and of the people of England.-(Hear.) Where was Dr.
Wiseman? Was he not in England? Had he no opportu-
nity of seeking a personal interview with his 'Noble Friend at
the head of the Government, and ascertaining positively and
beyond doubt and dispute, whether the measure the Pope
r contended
contemplated, and of which he was conscious and aware,
w
not
gv
that offence
a that to the
course Governmenta f
praproceeding
iaangd
had the
people of this country ?-(Hear)- and, therefore, he (Lord
Palmerston)
to
o sr wouldn
been studiously omitted, it was hnpossible for either the
Papal authority or those who advocated his cause to shelter
themselves under the pretext that things had taken place to
justify the Papal Government in supposing that the step it
was taking would not be offensive to the people of this coun-
try.-(Hear, hear.) Well, being then, this -an aggression of
a foreign authority, what was the authority by whicn that
aggression was made? It was an authority of an ecclesias-
tical nature, which had a double action on the minds of men.
- (Hear, bear.) He entered not into the question of the
simple theological difference between the Prosestant and
Catholic Church. With that they had
nothing at pre-
sent to do. lie was sincerely attached to the Pro-
testant Church, and while he respected the difference of
opinion of his Catholic brethren,-and far be it from him
to utter one syllable that would be painful to their reli-
gious feelings,- he must say that the Catholic Church had
another aspect,---it was not merely a theological body, but
was a political and temporal body also.- (Hear, hear.) The
character of the Catholic Church was not merely contra-
distinguished from, but exceeded all others in its encroach-
ments on temporal power. Churches were corporate
bodies, and corporate bodies were naturally encroaching;
but there was this difference between the Catholic Church
and the Church of England :-The latter was a British
Church, having its beginning and end in this realm. The
Church of Rome sprang from a foreign centre, and endea-
voured to spread its authority in every place over the whole
Christian -(Cheers.) But what was the action of
that Church? What was its temporal and political action?
Lock at those countries in which the Catholic Church was
predominant. Look at Portugal-look at Spain-and look
at Italy. Look also, he was concerned to say, at Austria.-
(Hear.) They would find that wherever the Catholic Church
was allowed to seize hold of temporal authority, that there
its influence was painfully exercised over the m oral
and
political interests of the nation.--(Hear, hearte.) Then, he
said, that some measure was rendered necessary by the
course the Panel Government had adopted, that it was neces-
sary to satisfy the feelings of th'e country.-(Hear.) He
thought that no Man who bad haul his eyes and ears open
during the Lit few months could for a moment dispute. He
knew it had been said that they wished to keep up a de-
hiii9nl that the agitation of this country was a partial agita-