The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-23 00:00:00

L ird BROUGHAM s vid he should confine his obser-
vations to the simple question, as to whether they should
now take the opinion of the judges. There was one word
which he was surprised to hear from the Lord Chancellor
under present circumstances. That word was" reckless."
Now, considering how they csmo into the position in
which they were now p'.aced, he must say'that, of all the
words in all the dictionaries in our Saxon tongue, that
was the very last that he should have expected to find
applied by his noble and learned friend, or by her Ma-
jesty's present advirire, to the conduct of his noble friend.
The question before them was simple and practical. It
was this. Could the house now get an answer from the
learned judges? He presumed by that was meant the 15.
judges. It was admitted that they could not. It was
admitted that all were either out of town or were on the
point of leaving it. Then were they to ask the judges
their opinion without giving them time for deliberation
It was a question of great difficulty, and one on which
considerable difference of opinion existed. Were they,
then, to administer an interrogatory to the judges, and
call on them to give an answer in 24 or 48 hours ? Whe-
ther they wished or not to have the opinion of the
judges, they could not have it new. Then after the cir-
cuit came term, and then the long vacation, so that it
was quite clear they could not get the judges' answer
till next session. He was surprised to hear his noble
friend complain of the wilful and reckless conduct of his
noble and learned friend Lord Lyndhurst in pressing on
their lordships to agree to the resolutions which he was
about to propose in committee. The noble and learned
lord on the woolsack agreed in that opinion, so that he
supposed that those noble lords who were now so anxious
for full discussion and deliberation bad voted with the
majority the other night for referring this question to a
committee of privileges. That, however, inferred—he
could hardly believe it—that those noble lords who were
now thus anxious for careful and deliberate proceeding,
even after the matter had been referred to and discussed
by committee, had on the previous evening voted against
its being even referred to a committee, and had sought
to induce the house at once to deCide upon it without
any inquiry. (Hear.) If the course recommended by
the noble lord who introduced the motion were adopted,
the house would now, in effect, say, after having decided
to go into committee, " Do not go on in that way. The
beet plan you can adopt is to delay, for the matter is too
important to be got rid of so speedily and so rashly."
He would not follow the argument of the noble lord,
who bail affirmed that this was not a question of
privilege, but a right of the Crown. It was a right
of the Crown which materially trenched upon the
privileges of their lordships' house, and their lordships
not only could, but must consider it. According to the
argument of the noble lord, the Crown might cast aside
the old modes of creating peers, and, ex mero meta, send
down a person to sit in that house without either sum-
mons or patent. He was quite astoniehed to hear such
arguments from lawyere, especially from Whig lawyers.
No one could be more anxious to have the opinion of the
learned judges upon the point in question, but the pe•
remptory refusal of Baron Wensleydale to appear by
counsel before their lordships, seemed to impose an addi-
tional obstacle to taking the opinions of those learned
persons. Under such circumstances, the judges would
have to decide without he iring any of the arguments on
either side of the question. Their lordships could not ask
them to sit on the woolsack whilst the house discussed
the question at issue, and then ask them what might be
their opinion upon the matter. He did not deny the
power of the house in such a eve, but it would be most
inconvenient and most unsatisfactory to adopt such a
course. An opinion so obtained would be worth very
little, and the learned judges themselves would be the first
to acknowledge that it was of little use when they had
not hoard the case properly argued by counsel. In fact
there were so many obstacles in the way, that he could
sot under any circumstances accept the proposal which
ha t been embodied in the motion now before the house.
Earl GRANVILLE ...et a erne his inoleeioo ie tbs.
few remarks he intended to make, to confine himself
strictly to the question before the house. lie thought
it was a most unjust accusation against the noble lord
who had introduced this question, that be had wandered
from the point. When the noble lord was discussing
this point in reference to the judges, it was impoesib e
that he should ignore and put out of sight the Ceminittee
of Privileges, for he had an undoubted right to refer
to any matters that were on the paper. He could not
help thinking that there were some inconsistencies in the
opinions that had been advanced by the noble lord oppo-
site (Lord Lyndhurst) ; for when he was sitting in h:s
judicial capacity in that house last year he male this
remark —" It was usual formerly to grant life peerages
in England. Is it so i a Scstland ?" and the noble baron
who hail just spoken had freely admitted that such peer.
ages were within the prerogative of the Crown. Their
lordships were told that they must rely upon the opi-
nion of the law lords in order that they might come t a
final and satisfactory conclusion, but these opinions
were very contradictory, and he could hardly admit that
they were safe guides upon the question. Some surPriee
hart been expressed that the horse had consented to the
Committee of Privilege. lie (Earl Granville) was of opi-
nion that it was a most undo Arable step to take, and it
' was seine consolation to him to find that morning a pro-
test in the Townsend case, which was signed by Lord
• Cetteaham, in the course of which that learned lord ex-
. pre,sed an opinion that it was improper for the house to
enter upon such an inquiry without leave and license of
the Crown. (Lord Campbell remarked that that was an
essentially different case, the question raised being one
of legitimacy.) The noble lord, the Lord Chief Justice,
did not always hold the opinions which he now seemed
to entertain, for in the case of Knowles the noble lord

was reported to have said that the proceeding were
coran non judicc, because they had been undertaken
without any reference to the permission of the Crown.
But be (Earl Granville) was consent t) let bygones be
byegones, fur he was anxious to get out of the committee
ai soon as he could. Then as to referring the matter to
the judges. It had been said that precedents were against
sinn a course, but he need not further allude t that
point, because it had been succes,,fully demolished by
the nobl: and learned lord on the woolsack. He might

refer to the 1)11 passed by the House of Lords which en-
abled King William to delegate certain powers to the
Queen during his absence abroad. That question was re-
ferred to the judges, and Chief-Justice Holt decided that
witheut an act of Parliament that step could not be
taken. This certainly was a case in point. (Rear, hear )
It had also been urged by the noble lord (Lord
Brougham) that the matter could not be referred to the
judges, because Baron Wensleydale had refused to be
heard by counsel ; but in the case of Knowles the judges
had unanimously decided that the house bad a right to
put questions to them upon abstract points. The argu-
ment that the judges were on circuit was idle, for if it
were tenable their lordships would never be able to put
questions to them at all. (Hear, hear.) As far, then,
as he (Earl Granville) was concerned, he had no doubt
of the propriety of submitting to the Queen's writ. The
Queen, there could be no doubt, had a perfect right to
confer peerages for life, and it was equally clear that
when conferred such a peerage entitled its possessor to
a seat in that house. In e mfirmatien of this, he might
refer to a note of Mr. Hargreave, the keeper of the
rolls, who, in referring to the case of Knowles, said
that although the claim was finally rejected, still it was
contrary to the opinion of many peers, and the protest
of 20 of them : and that if it had not been refused to
hear the judges, in all prubahility the claimant would
have succeeded both upon the facts and the law of the
case. (Hear, hear.) Now, he came to another point.
He certainly did not hold the doctrine that their lord-
ships' house was servilely to support the prerogative of
the Crown, or to uphold any abuse of that prerogative ;
but when their lordships dealt with a question which
was at the root of that prerogative, .they certainly took
a most unusual and unprecedented step. He did not
think it was decent with regard to the Crown itself,
respectful to the other House of Parliament, or treating
with due respect the feeling of the country. (Hear,
hear.) He should certainly with the greatest satisfac-
tion vote for the motion of the noble lord.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM, their
lordships divided, when there appeared—
Contents—Present
Proxies
.-111

Non•Content3—Present - 97
Proxies 45
—142

Majority against the motion j.-31
Tho house went into committee, and Mr. Tomlins, the
keeper of the rolls of the Rolls Chapel, produced the life
peerages up to the 25th of Henry.
After some questions had been put to the witness by
Lord LYNDHURST,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said ho did not know whe-
ther it would be any convenience to his noble and learned
friends, but he believed there wore eighteen grants to
women and grants to persons for life with remainder to col-
lateral heirs. Ho had not the particulars, but he believed
there were not any since those early times.
Loral LYNDHURST then rose for the purpose of pro-
posing the motion of which ho had given notice. He said
he was not sure he should be able adequately to perform
the task he had undertaken, or whether his strength would
bear him through, but having undertaken it he would (lb
his best. The question had been so fully discussed, and
noble lords were so intimately acquainted With every part
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