The Sun.
London, England, 1833-01-30 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The debate on the appointment of the Speaker
last night was more perplexed, and indeed
tedious, than might have been expected. The
proposer and seconder of Mr. Manners Sutton
were, as we had previously stated, Lord Mor-
peth and Sir Francis Burdett. Mr. Hume pro-
posed, and Mr. O'Connell seconded, the nomi-
nation of Mr. Littleton. It is singular that it
should have been gravely asserted by these
gentlemen and others, that Mr. M. Sutton, if
elected, might retain his retiring pension with
the usual salary of the Speakership, and thus
nothing would be saved to the country by his
again taking the chair. Neither was this matter
completely set right till towards the latter end of
the debate, when the act was produced, by
which it appeared that the Speaker does not
cease to be such till the appointment of a new
one, many of the functions of the office being
liable to be exercied in the interval between an
old and a new Parliament. What income, then,
has Mr. Manners Sutton received up to the
present time ? That of the acting Speaker,
6,0001. a-year. He has never been placed upon
the retired allowance. It is certain, that upon
his finally quitting the chair at any future period.
he will, without any fresh enactment, be entitled
to the 4,0001. pension already voted to him.
The House, therefore, have no hold, in one
sense of the term, on his future conduct. This
is true. But it is not for what he may henceforth
do, hut for what he has already done, that the
4,0001. have been (as usual) granted; and nothing
which he may henceforth do can render his past la-
bours and services, up to the present time, undone.
Mr. M. Sutton, there is no doubt, was un-
favourable to Reform, Mr. Littleton supported
the measure, and hence it was attempted to be
inferred, that the Reform Ministers have pro-
moted their enemy, and rejected their friend.
But it is evident that it was not to please the
Conservatives, but to defeat the Conservatives,
that Mr. Sutton was proposed by Ministers, for
had Ministers offered Mr. Littleton or Mr.
Abercrombie to the House, the Conservatives
would have immediately proposed Mr. M. Sut-
ton, through principle and friendship, and the
Economists (ay, those very men who now cry
out for Mr. Littleton) would have supported the
nomination on the plea of saving or retrench-
ment. The whole of this matter is perfectl\
understood by the intelligent public. We are
only surprised that the contingency of the new
Speaker's grasping his retiring pension along
with his salary should have been represented as
possible. Mr. Sutton, while he expressed his
firm conviction that the pension could not le-
gally belong to him, together with the salary of
Speaker, disavowed, even were it otherwise, in
the strongest terms, all idea of receiving both
sums, as Mr. Littleton rejected the honour in-
tended him by Mr. Hume, Mr. O'Connell, and
their followers. A division took place after a
debate of three hours, when the numbers were
241 to 31, in favour of Mr. M. Sutton. The
House has thus secured for itself its most
experienced Member to regulate its debates, and
the country gains 4,0001. a-year in consequence
of the preference given by its representatives to the
fittest object presented to their choice.—Times.
The meeting of Parliament, and the first de-
bate in the Reformed House of Commons,
took place yesterday, and, if we cannot congra-
tulate the community on any manifest improve-
ment in the talent or temper of the discussion
as compared with those to which we were ac-
customed in the unreformed Parliament, there is
at least much ground of congratulation in the
result of this important deliberation. The first
Commoner of England is still to be a Gentle-
man, at least until some further progress be
made in Reform, and a Gentleman so eminently.
Tory in his habits, principles, and character,
that, by the consent of all parties, he knows
better than any other man in the House how the
duties of the elevated station to which he is re-
elected, for the seventh time, ought to be dis-
charged, and deserves more than any other,
the full confidence of all parties, that in his
hands the arduous and important functions of
his exalted office will be fulfilled with dig-
nity, vigour, and effect. The first duty of
the Speaker of the House of Commons is
to display perfect impartiality upon all occa-
sions. It is by this means only that hr
can hope to secure the confidence and esteem of
such an assembly, and to command the uniform
and unanimous support of the House, whenever
it may become (as in any House of Commons,
however reformed, it will sometimes become) his
duty to rebuke and to curb individual irregularity.
The invariable impartiality of the present
Speaker, his pre-eminence in this first quality of
a Speaker, without which all other excellencies
must he vain and nugatory, was attested by the
strongest testimony, that of numerous unim-
peachable witnesses, who had themselves expe-
rienced the protection and other advantages
resulting from this peculiar quality of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, although they belonged
to a party in the State engaged in unremiued
hostility to that party to which the opinions, as-
sociations, and predilections of the Right Hon.
Gentleman had made him a firm and conscien-
tious adherent. Mr. Hume, Mr. O'Connell,
Mr, Cobbett, and the other distinguished Re-
formers who opposed the re-election of Mr.
Manners Sutton, are_ not, however, much
enamoured of the virtue of impartiality in the
President of an Assembly in which they intend
to be busy and active members. They insist, as
upon a point of much greater importance, that
the Speaker should have the merit of concur-
ring in hisgeneral opinions with the majority of
the House, of which majority they flatter them
selves they are to constitute a distinguished part.
They put forward, almost without disguise, the
pretension that idem sentire de republics, with
Mr. Hume, Mr. O'Connell, and Mr. Cobbett,
would constitute a higher claim to the Speaker's
Chair than all the impartiality, all the urbanity,
all the learning, and all the tact and experience
which, during sixteen years, Mr. Manners Sutton
has been enabled to display or to acquire. Surely
they have been imprudent in this. They might
as well have concealed from the world their
exalted estimate of their own importance. They
might as well have forborne to show to the
world how incapable they are of being im-
partial, and how little they value impartiality
when they think they have any chance of getting
a little partiality in their own favour. They
might as well have refrained from the tacit con-
fession that impartiality in his own character is
not a Reformers virtue, and that in the charac-
ter of a superior is not a Reformer's interest.
The first subject of congratulation to the Con-
servatives in the proceedings of last night is the
elevation of one of their body to the foremost
place among the Commons of England, by the
united acclamation of every Member of the
House whose suffrage would not have been a
positive disgrace. There is, however, another

subject of congratulation to be found in this I
discussion. We allude to the evidence, the
unambiguous evidence, it afforded that a com-
plete extinguisher is about to be put in the new
Parliament upon that very troublesome and mis-
chievous person, Mr. Joseph Hume. The
Member for Middlesex, it is plain, will be re-
duced to less than nothing by a financier in his
own line, but far more consistent and intelligible
in his professions of economy; we mean Mr.
W. Cobbett. The sneaking loan-jobber is an-
nihilated in the presence of the burly Republi-
can. Who will listen to the petty hypocrite
who pretends to reduce the national expenditure
to the English standard of 1792, when they can
be entertained nightly by the bolder invader of
the national establishments who proclaims that
the cheap institutions of America are his
model ? We like the man who will speak
plainly out, and let the world know at once
what it is he means, better a thousand times,
than the artful destroyer who creeps by stealthy
pace to his object, or who more probably has no
higher object to stimulate him in his laborious
delusions than that of promoting some dirty
object of his own, getting beneficial slices of
foreign loans with an indemnity against contin-
gent loss, and having his vanity regaled by the
occasional " Hear, hear," of his shallow auditors.
—Morning Post.
The Reformed Parliament entered on its ex-
istence yesterday. From several articles in the
Chronicle, our readers must have been prepared
for the discussion which arose on the choice of
a Speaker. Mr. Hume began the business of
the night by a question whether it was the in-
tention of his Majesty's Ministers to bring in a
Bill to alter the Act for granting an annuity to
the late Speaker, which being objected to as ir-
regular, he proceeded to enter on the question
of election of Speaker. Having given an
outline of what he deemed the qualifications
necessary to a Speaker, he admitted that Mr.
Manners Sutton was well qualified in every
ssnse but one—his opinions were diametrically
opposite to those possessed by the majority of a
Reformed House of Commons, and it was ne-
cessary that the opinions of the Speaker should
be the opinions of the majority. He concluded
with proposing Mr. Littleton, the Member for
Staffordshire, as fully qualified from talents and
long experience of the business of the House for
the duty, and not objectionable on the score of
his opinions. He glanced at what was after-
wards placed in bolder relief—the disposition of
Ministers, which has been so often animadverted
on, to carry on the government by the aid of
persons hostile in opinion to them, rather
than that of those who had always main-
tained the principles that placed themselves
in office. Lord Morpeth proposed Mr.
Manners Sutton, and Sir Francis Burdett
seconded the motion. The Noble Lord
the Hon. Baronet contended, that however
well qualified Mr. Littleton might be, morally
and intellectually, Mr. Manners Sutton had the
advantage of greater experience. Neither of
them met the objection, that it has hitherto been
laid down that the Speaker should entertain the
opinions of the majority of the House, that in
.dl controversies with the Peers, and occasions
when it should become necessary to give weight
to the opinions of the majority, he might be
found a fitting organ. Mr. O'Connell consi-
dered this " as another instance of that paltry
truckling of the present Administration towards
their ancient enemies, which had already afforded
such frequent subjects of complaint. The public
were much disappointed when they found them
taking every opportunity of thrusting their
enemies into places and offices of great power
and importance. They should stand by their
friends, and leave their enemies to shift for
themselves. It was once said of one of our
Monarchs, that he treated his enemies like
friends, and his friends like enemies ; and it
appeared as though the present Ministers were
following that excellent example." He observed,
that '6 it had been considered that the grand ad-
vantage of the Reform Bill was to put down
Toryism in England, that vile and abominable
system, which existed by the plunder of
the people, and by the usurpation of their
rights. No family had enjoyed the fruits of
that system more than the family of the Right
lion. Gentleman. They had possessed several
rotten boroughs—they had numerous nominees
in the House—and he should like to know of
what use the Reform Bill would be, if Tories
and Tory connections were still to be predomi-
nant ; and if the principles which directed old
Parliaments were still to guide the Councils of
the new." Mr. O'Connell then, by way of fur-
ther elucidating the motives of Ministers ob-

served—
" How far the placing a gentleman of Tory principles
in that Chair was likely fo satisfy the public, might easily
he anticipated. The people had been struggling almost to
rebellion and revolution to get rid of the Tory faction, and
now the Reformed House of Commons was about to take
it up. The Ministry—the Reformed Ministry—had
made the regular arrangements. They were, of course,
afraid that the Right Honourable Gentleman would be
proposed by the Tories. They sent the offer of the situ-
rtion, which, of course, was quite unexpected, and
which, when offered, was politely accepted. And then.
they went out of their way, not to promote a friend, but
a political enemy. They were sure to get the votes of the
Conservatives on the occasion to swell their numhers, and
the newspapers of to-morrow would blazon forth the
grand Ministerial majority ! The strength of Ministers
would be promulgated on the Stock Exchange, and the
Jews would rejoice in anticipation of a rise of two or three
per cent.—(A laugh.)
• • • • • 'A #
He protested against this step, as an abandonment of re-
forming principles—as a relapse into Toryism—as a fol-
lowing up of one of the worst practices of the unreformed
Parliament, that of the Ministerial party making their
own arrangements, and their voting down the people by
the aid of a Conservative majority.—(Hear.) He would
venture to prophesy that was not the last time they would
see that combination. Coming events cast their shadows
before.' Reports had long been going about, that a junc-
tMn was going to be formed to put a stop to the progress
of Reform, and to the amelioration of our institutions.
Amelioration, did he say : he begged pardon. The Right
Honourable Member for Lancashire had declared the Re-
form measure to be final ; and the Reform Member for
Northamptonshire hail also pronounced a similar decree—
(Lord Alihorp denied this.)"
Already we have indications, that whatever
combinations there may be, there will be no lack
of men to denounce them. It remains to be
seen, whether Ministers will or will not follow
up their principles, by proposing such measures
of amelioration as the country expects from
them. It has often been said, and is repeated
in an able article in the last Number of the
Edinburgh Review, attributed to Mr. Macaulay,
that a Whig in place does not differ from a
Tory ; but we would fain hope the Honourable
Member did not say this with reference to his
colleagues, or that it must be taken as a mani-
festo. Mr. Tennyson stigmatised the negotia-
tion carried on respecting the Speakership as an
insult to the House, and called on the Ministry
for a disavowal, but declared his determination
to vote for Mr. Manners Sutton on the ground
of his high qualifications, while the Honourable
Member for Staffordshire, with less experience,
had not the advantage of representing the feel-

ings of the people; for he did nut think that he
would vote for those measures which the people
considered necessary to the efficiency of the Re-
form Bill. On this Lord Alchorp entered into
an explanation of the motives which led him to
open a negotiation with Mr. Manners Sutton.
Believing him infinitely better qualified for the
Chair than any untried person—when he found
that he was again returned to the House, he
avowed " that he did write to the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman to know, if he were elected
Speaker, whether he would undertake the office ;
telling him that, if he would undertake to do
so, he should have his support." His Lordship
made the following important declaration on the
subject of the course to be pursued by Ministers,
and in explanation of what fell from him in
Northamptonshire :
" I hope and trust the measures which his Majesty's
Ministers will being forward may be such as to meet the
approbation of the House and the people. It is my in-
tention that they should do so ; and there is one sentiment
in the speech of my Honourable Friend the Member for
Middlesex in which I concur most completely ; nam4Y—
that the Reform Bill was the means, and not the end.—
(Hear, hear.) I have been taunted with having spoken
of the Reform Bill as a final measure. I asked him what
he meant by a final measure? Do I mean to say, because
I used those words, that the Reform of Parliament itse'f
is final—that no other Reform was to he introduced, and
that no advantages whatever were to accrue from it? Cer-
tainly not. I considered it final, and I supported it as
final as far as regarded the constitution of the House
itself, and as a means by which to effect other improve-
ments and other reforms. The Hon. Member seems to
think, because I made use of the word final, that I am
opposed to those very reforms of which I consider the Re-
form Bill only the foundation."
His Lordship had just before said, that "if
we are now to talk of Ministers of the Crown
dictating to a British House of Commons, I
can only say, that we have wasted two years in
talking, about Reform.—(Loud cheers.)" But
is not this statement something at variance with
the tone of his explanation ? It is for the Re-
formed House of Commons to determine
whether, besides the advantages to accrue from
the Reform Bill in effecting improvements, some
improvement_ may not also be introduced into
the mode of returning the Members of the
House. Whether, when he said he considered
the Reform Bill final as regarded the constitu-
tion of the House, he meant that there should
be no change with respect to the mode of elec-
tion or duration of Parliament, is, to be sure,
doubtful. But no present Parliament can hind
any future Parliament, and as majorities decreed
the Septennial Act and the Reform Bill, majo-
rities may in future decree other changes ; so
that it is rather assuming too much to proclaim
that Ministers deemed the Reform Bill final,
even as regarded the constitution. A question
arose as to the construction of the Act of Par-
liament conferring on Mr. Manners Sutton his
pension. It was pointed out by Mr. O'Connell,
that the pension having once commenced, must
continue during the term of his natural life ; for
the proviso in the Bth section, that one-half was

to be forteitod if the Right Hon. Gentleman
accepted any office under the Crown, did not
apply to the Speakership, which was not an of-
fice under the Crown. It was observed by Mr.
Corbett, that the pension being vested in him
might be sold to-morrow. Mr. Manners Sut-
ton himself declared, that if he were chosen
Speaker he would nut consent to take a
shilling of the pension. With regard to the
title to the pension, the Solicitor-General
said he could not receive his pension of
four thousand pounds while he was receiv-
ing his salary of 6,0001., as the Act only
entitled him to the pension after his resignation ;
but on a dissolution, while the functions of
Speaker ceased for some purposes, they conti-
nued for others, for the purpose of receiving
salary as Speaker, they continued until a new
Speaker was elected. The Attorney-General
observed, also, that it was impossible to contend
that the old Parliament had entirely expired till
within the last few hours. Another discussion
may be expected on a point indicated by Mr.
Warburton, that " the precedent of voting a
pension to a Speaker before his retirement was
decidedly bad, as it took away one of the gua-
rantees which the House possessed for his good
conduct in the Chair ;" and "if no Member
should be found on an early occasion to propose
. _

that the vote be rescinded, he would hiMself
submit a motion that all that part of the vote by
which a retired pension of 4,0001. for his own
life, and of 3,0001, for his son, be repealed."
Mr. Cobbett's maiden speech was quite charac-
teristic. It will be looked to, no doubt, with
much curiosity. No one expected that the
division would exhibit a considerable minority.
The dicussion, however, is of importance in se-
veral respects. In the minority of thirty-one
who voted against the principle of placing a de-
cided and consistent Tory at the head of a
Reformed Whig Parliament, there were only
six Members of the last Parliament, viz.:
Hume, Joseph ; Ewart, William ; O'Con-
nell, Daniel ; O'Connell, Maurice ; Strutt,
Edward ; and Warburton, Henry, the Teller.
Mr. Manners Sutton voted as a matter
of etiquette for Mr. Littleton, whilst Mr.
Littleton voted for Mr. Manners Sutton. We

have already alluded to the doctrine of the At-
torney and Solicitor-General, that by the Act
granting the annuity of 4,0001. to the Speaker,
he was entitled to that sum from the day he
should cease to hold the office of Speaker, and
that by an Act of last Session the office of the
old Speaker was to continue until the appoint-
ment of a new one. It was admitted by Mr.
Manners Sutton, that he had drawn his salary
of Speaker since the dissolution of Parliament.
It is understood that some further inquiries will
be made, with a view to ascertain how such an
Act could have passed the late Parliament with-
out notice. We may observe, in conclusion,
that as this is a Reformed Parliament, which
must, of course, be anxious to allow the con-
stituency every facility for knowing its proceed-
ings, it might not be amiss that some measures
were adopted for enabling correct divisions to be
taken. The inaccurate manner in which they
have hitherto been taken was anything but cre-
ditable to the House. Some improvement in
this respect is especially called for.—Morning
Chronicle.
That Reformed Parliament, the meeting of
which England has so anxiously desired to wit-
ness, met yesterday for the first time, and we
cannot advert to the circumstance without re.
joicing, in the first place, that the people have
accomplished such a signal triumph over their
enemies, and, in the second, expressing our
hopes that the fruits of Reform will, in every
respect, correspond to their ardent wishes, and
the undeniable necessities of the country.
There was but one novelty in the House—and
that was the appearance of Mr. Cobbett—and
but one matter of business, and that was the
election of a Speaker, on which several Mem-
bers delivered their sentiments at length. It
was previously known, that Ministers, for
reasons the validity of which we shall not

call in question, had determined to support
Mr. Manners Sutton, as Speaker of the
House, in preference to any other candidate;
and it was equally well known that this selection was
one which would be opposed by those Members
who were of opinion that a reformed House of
Commons should have a reformed Speaker, and
not intrust either the conduct of its business, or
the general expression of its wishes, to one who
had uniformly opposed all Reform, and who, it
might naturally be expected, would as steadily
oppose the results of that Reform which has
taken place. There was accordingly a much
greater muster of Honourable Members than
usually takes place on such occasions, and con-
siderable anxiety evinced to ascertain who
would be selected as the opponent of Mr.
Sutton. No time was lost in rendering this
matter plain to every one; for the House had no
sooner met than Mr. Hume rose to propose
Mr. Littleton as a fit and proper person to fill
the Chair of a Reformed House of Commons,
and to denounce Mr. Sutton as unfit, not on
account of any lack of talent or experience, but
on account of the gross contrast which his poli-
tical principles presented to those of the majority
of the Members of which the House is com-
posed. His motion was seconded by Mr.
O'Connell in a powerful speech, and partially
supported by Cobbett, in one of a rather rambling
description : but which he delivered with consi-
derable ease and nonchalance. Lord Morpeth and
Sir F. Burdett respectively moved and seconded
the appointment of Mr. Sutton, on the ground of
his great experience and impartiality—and of the
necessity of that experience to a comparatively new
House of Commons. It will be seen from the
report of the proceedings of the House that their
motion was successful ; there being, on a divi-
sion, 31 for Mr. Littleton, and 241 for Mr.
Sutton. The latter of course was duly elected and
regularly installed into his former office. Upon
the subject of debate, our readers will of course
form their own judgment. The public, by the ap-
pointment of Mr. Sutton,gains a saving of his pen-
sion of 4,0001. a year, as well as of the reversion
that is tacked to it, and both of which will, no doubt,
undergo modification, from the searching vigi-
lance of a Reformed House ; but, on the other
hand, we perfectly agree with those Hon. Mem-
bers who supported Mr. Littleton, that such a
saving is a mere drop in the bucket compared
with the commission of a great error in prin-
ciple, or the destruction of the public confidence
in its public servants. We wish, in fact, that the
matter had turned out otherwise, and that with
a Reformed House of Commons, we had also
had a Reformed Speaker ; but we are not, in
consequence, disposed to quarrel with the deci-
sion of his Majesty's Ministers. They no doubt
had their reasons, and with them, also, is the
responsibility. We trust that the former were
good, and that in their decision they did not fail
to think of the latter.—Morning Advertiser.