The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-10 00:00:00

-~~

tiarriety, tne Insolvency Go 2-F
..
vernment, and the
pestiOn could tint be taken aS'a Mere question of
tart
; but the whole must be taken together, the '
tad as well as the inference that was drawn from it,
of the Insolvency of Government. He dd not wish
to fix the HOli. Gentleman with the exalt words
Which had been imputed to hitn,but
thethe Hon. Gen-
tleinan had not told the. House what words were
Which he used, The 'Hon.' Gentleman
(Mr.
COURTENAY) had argued, as if his Right Hon.
Friend (the CHA2.4F Et. I: OR of the
.
ouhgand
taken, a wrong. ground, in .observing,hand h
now Ave
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
•RoasoN),..
proofs
hundred of the assertion which he
.made,
they amounted to nothing,,, because he had only a
:single fact in. his -possession, w hen he made that .
however, had
assertion. His Right Hon: Friend,
t his. argument was ad-
not argued. in that way,.
u (Mr. Roasow) only,
dressed to the Hon. Gentleman
•tion, when he .was only
who having made am assertion,
aware of a single faa which_could support that as_
section, ought not now to bring.forward other filets
in its support, which he was ignorant of at. the
ust
time he made the assertion, as. the assertion m
the information had, when
heo made . e Judged according
i.t. He. admtiotted, that circumstances had
taken place similar to that brought
but hOw was 'the
forward by the
41.00. Gentleman *.iMr,r. oiisor
ffed 'd by Allem ~.......-One of
credit of Government a e
called -upoti_:.by
the very Gentlemen who .hadbeen
th'.7 liOn. 'Gentleman; a City Member, had stated;
that the Bankers of the City of London were always
i':l
ready te-the Bills of Government, even
pietcrence to a
II others. He thought. it -was not
right in the Hon.
Gentleman, to bring forward a
subjed of this nature, or to cause a discussion of
.this kind to go forth
,to the Public, patticularly as
the name of the_ Hot,: Gentleman was already so
well the" in the Public Papers, whilst that House
alone' had the honour alid the happiness of being able
Properly to estimate his observatlons, The ma!t.er.
•n,1.1, restedo with the Hon. Gentleman; if be w_lth
IrelY the inference- which' he had made, or, if he
(P4' said, he never Made such an inference, there
T
was no occasion to go any farther : the Hon. Gen.t
ie'nan, however, had nit done 'this, but seemei till to haVe a reserve. 'lt was impossible there
couki be any real imputationlof Insolvency thrown
upon Government, . nor was there any possible.
occasion for granting the Hon. Gentleman's Motion.
I.llr. A r":1-1D-eiLL said, he wished to put the
Learned Member right, who had asked the Hp-
uourable Gentleman to Withdraw' his Motion,.
as' by the Jules
of rebate, when- a Motion. was. °nice put from the Chair, it was in possession °I
the,. House, and could not be withdrawn unless the,
muse gave kave. He also wished the, Houske
. ~,Yould dispose of the Motion as they
,"csts hwould b• . might thin.
.
was received
ult..-
e- by negativing it •
.for if it
as a Member near hi.m(T.Vir, Co.
.t _
rN"),' had proposed least by negativing rt,.i.
111°uld he an admission of the ta6ts , he thought Title
6tl,:ierwise, but it would be an, admission, that the
Ise had a doubt on the Subjed,.by acceding-to suLl .i 1
Motion, which was as unexpected and unauthorized,
Lnd of as unwelcome a nature, to both sides
~of thhe.
,„—°use, as could -be,conceived ; at. the' same tun;
,e,
~-"ust observe, that Ministry 'were dealink
.:,raiher
bruelly and hardly with the Hon. Gentleman, intrying
ediminish his rising reputation, which•could only
l ttributed to their envy of the impression which
''cande was 'making on the country; but they oughtin
our to recoiled
.the many unsuccessful' efforts,
days, fter day, and month afier month, the 1-lon. Gen_
Lean had made on_different -subjeds7,they should
i'`°lleft his. arithmetic without figUres, his chrono..
ii3gy without dates, and his, history, except in this
.stance, Without fads ~---=.-it‘Was cruel to deprive
Il' am of the credit of one single lucky hit which he
ev ,nlade in his' whole-Parliamentary, 11
life-7-ow-
ltanceer).-if Gentle Men were to judge'from thin irl-
, tt,heth
er there was any latent
..opposition to .
4113 ear, hereafter in the House • and, if it was to.
to .
• h,,4/}-I,'.,'"e as •it had begun, sometimes appearing in
1.„,i.,- -,4-tt of. interrogations, and • sometimes as .pro, r,'esY3 and new in the 'form of a bill of tlineteen pout*
t iirteen shillings ' and fourpence, he thought Minis:. ,'.7 might
.be eas
:,.0 be sure y enough as to the corisequencea.-7
vli.,
nistr it had been said, that the ytuatiun of
lities ye. -I rouir ec more than super human abi.
' yet
Ile v4l° wished them well, and thought
Well of them, believed they had nothing su-
per.hurnan about them .
no more man he believed they were
" ri very able andvery honest men,
vhose only wish
Country (ii.,
their COuntry would 7 to serve their • and that they permit them),
had
alma. 7.e.Patience to the purpofe ; but it 'nth which were adequate ton
el:comptish, if they
3 bill tieS could . rn,.IIS t be more than any human.
. ,
condud of
Clerk 1
a bill of rri • ' Y could regulate the_
It office,"andmanage so that
r,.
nee, . neteen.Po.4nds thirteen shillings and four.
7 ,_,lt
,should never be presented twice for pay-.
r: ,
..4--For the reason he had already givens he
wa against the Motion,
4,4
. .. .
cal' ,'" YON.ES said, the Ho* Gentlemanliad.
hutl" his Hon. Friend's assertion " a god
tour e thought it a bad hit for the Ministers ofhist ,the
which Y• He
ne was not• present • on that 'evening;
I, ell he must call. a Stormy Sitting, when his tion ,
hertend in.., .
t age the assertion, but when he heard of it,,
_ LoPght it was ay up. It was very extraordi-
-...1), however that IVlinisterq . should be so 'alarmed
turn this subjea, and that neither the CH ANC ELLolt
tile.
RXe n EQD E It who had been twelve months in
-Office '
. nor the Secretary. at. War, nor the Secreta-
..,r_le, of the Treasury should' know any thing about.
" though it was no'' admitted to be a common
Pra4ice• Proofs
Proo His Hon. Friend was prepared with
i• , anti would bring forward damning proofs to
iiroborate the assertion
which tie .had made,. if
1 3 Motion was ranted ; and he contended it ought
I 0
be ac granted to.
, ?hr CRANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE;;
Deer
explanation, said, that the assertion which had
by made on Thursday evening, and acknowledged
,-,Y. the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ronsor:).,- was, that,
‘at anvernment Acceptances had been refitsed.,payment
:nPublic Office,. , Th.c Hon. Gentleman had
.made
is. assertion when he only knew at the time of one
..n.titary instance ivhere this' had happened.-- He.-
_Wished novV, with the.perrnission. Of the House,- to,
't_ ate a cireumstancesvhich. lie omitted before, natlife.-
t`roY) that the Bill Was. prelented. for payment by a.
l in • - • - . -
; --
! . indigent circumstances ;_h , was,. des.r.
au of having
this
tircuMstatlce explained. • •

.41.LEX.4DER said, 'he was oue `of those
who called upon !the Hon. Genilernan Rota_
sox), on Tluirsday evening, either to produce proofs
of his assertion or to retract it. He insisted that
Gentleman Hon. gcntlean did on that evening exptessly
mention the InsOlVency of Covertiment, and that
what the Hon. Gentlerrian afterwards 'stated, •was
merely to explain how that circumstance had hap-.
pened ; that the Hon. Gentleman had also expitssly
asserted that Government Acceptances had been
payment at Is'ublic Offices. It was not merely
therefore a question about a Bill, but relative to
those assertions which had been expressly made by
the Hon. Gentleman.

Mr. RILEY ADDINGTON said, he merely
wished to make an observation relative to the stir-
prize expressed 1.)-S' ' the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.,
JONES), that the Secretaries of the Treasury should
be ignorant bf the circumstance of any acceptance of
a Public. Office not having been" paid. Had a Trea-
sury Acceptance not been paid when it became due,
he supposed the Secretaries of the Treasury would
have known something about it ; but how was it
possible that they should know every transaction
which took place in every Public Office under Go-
veriwient ? He knew this however, that if the
Commissioners of the Sic-k ,and Hurt-Office had ap-
plied to the,Treasury for money, stating that it
was immediately wanted, and therefore requeiting
that the usual forms might be dispensed with upon
such an occasion, their request would- have been
complied with, and the money immediately issued.
An Hon. Gentleman (Mr.CouRTENAY), had stated
that when he was in Office, when that was, he (Mr.
ADDINGTON), did not know, the Treasury had fre-
quently refused payment, alledging there was no
money. He had been but a short time in Office,
but so far as his knowledge extended, he could po.
sitively assert, that the Treasury had never, in any
one instance, refused to make good its engage-
ments.

Dr. LAWRENCE said, that the question was,
whether the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rossox), had
alledged any sufficient-ground to justify. bis, Motion ?
he thought that not a, single word had been alledged
by that Hon. Gentleman which. could tend to 'prove
that any thing conducive to the public , utility •
could be derived from the present Motion, which he
should therefore oppose. The circumstance which
had been made the subject of discussion, had.arisen
in this way ; the Sick and Htirt.Offiee, as, well. as
several other Offices, were forinaly .tinder. the en-
tire controul and tnari client of the Treasurer of
the Navy, who could :not therefore make_; up his
accounts till the ac4ounts of all. these
~Offices
were settled ; now, however, these Offices were
immediately dependant upon the Treasury, with
respeet to pecuniary concerns, and it might there-
Tote- very probably, happen, as they bad not Trea-
suries within themselves, that they might gome-
times be without money ; this was an inconve-
nience, but so also was the former, and there was
only a choice betweer. two. inconveniencies.—The
fact, however, brought forward by the Hon. Gen-
tletrian fMr. ROBSON), proved, nothing. Dr. LAW.
RENCE was proceeding to advert to an expression
used by him on a former; evening., which had been
noticed by an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. ARCHDALL),
but was called to Order by the SPEAKER, and after
a short explanation, sat down.
Mr. WiLBERFORCE observed, that if a-party
of 'Gentlemen were met at a dinner, they might
make such a subjea as the present a matter of.dis.
cession ; but when he considered the various im-
portant objeas which ought to occupy the con_
sideration of thenouse of Commons, he thought the
time and the attention-of the House were very much
'wasted in- discussing the subjeCt now before them.
-The Hon.-Gentleman (Mr. Ronsox) had drawn an .
inference from a fafi, which, it appeared, was only
part of a pra&ice that had existed for -many years ;
if, however, as- was .adtially the ease, the Public
Credit had remained: wholly uninjured by this prac-
tice,. then the present Motion was not deserving of
the least attention, If the Public Offices were not
alloWed -to keep large sums of money in hand, it
must sometimes happen, -that they would -want
honey; and lie thought it better that this-should
take plate, than that large sums of Money should
be kept in- those Offices. There was no circum. •
stance stated, nor could any infeince be drawn, that
could, in the least,' weaken the Public Credit, and
-he thought the better way„ would be not to .waste
any further time in discussing the subject. • "
Mr. ROBSON said, he had 'been called upon -to
state the words which he had used on Thursday
evening. He had then said, _that payment of an
Acceptance,. at one Public Office, had been refused
(11 cry of—ANo).--7-He wished for the Papers for
which he had moved, in order that he might prove,
which he knew he could do, that Acceptances,- at
the Office in question, had been refused payment in
more than. one instance, and that from such Bills.
not .being punctually paid,' a great disadVantage
aiose. -Knowing this, he did nor consider,himself
...to blame in bringing forward an instance of it which
_had come to his: knowledge: He asserted, that this
prattice 'prevailed in other Offices to a great extent,
• Which he would likewise prove, if the House would
grant him the necessary documents if they would
not, how, was he to prove it ? .He considered that he
had done his duty in hringiag the subjeCtforward,.
and he kneiv that-there were many gills in the saute
situation:

The CH4NtELL6R of the EXCHEQUER
said,. the Hon. Gentleman lidd now confined his
sertiontd an Acceptance being refused at one ..Public
Office; but he *as, confident that the *p-1-, penta.
man did say, on Thursday eveningi that gos.erp-
ment Acceptances had been refused,payment
Ile Offices. •
Mr. N. /I,;INSITt4RT said, . gatt 14. circ.uni-
. stance Alluded to, was nothing new, as it was only
part of a cOnimeort prktice which had. sxisted for
.severat years ; but he was authoril'ed; by Gentlemen
in the Sick and Hurt Office,. to say, that none of, the.
Bills Of that Office bad ever hen protested, nor had
:any stepkeli.ir been taken by th, Holders; to re-
. (Over their arnoPne.
211 r. MARDlNsaidi he did not think the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr.- RoxisoN)' made use of till word
:Insolvenei, at leasi he (Mr. MAR:TINY did not
lair film,

.Mr. DENT stated, 'that he called the ffpn.,Gen-
tleiilin (.Mr. to Order on Thursday, be:.

. .
Cause he -Lid :diitinaly tincierstoed' him to charge
Government with Instilvetiey, from having refiised
pay meo t--to' Aceeptanc es . •..
Mr. MOORE attested the correCtneis of the
statement :61. the CHANCELLOR of the ~ExctlE
Q,IYE it, ,and Said; there ,could be no necessity for
granting the present Moiibn; as the last was
admitted, and 'the HOP.. Gentleman (Mr: kOi3sdn;)
himself had rejeeted the inference. T here was no_
thing in the circumstance alluded to. Which could in
any manner atteet the Solidity of Public credit, and
he thought such disetfssibPs as the present improper,
as they tended. to eicite, an unfounded alarm.
" The Ho.4,!heeni_ divided on the Motion of :the
CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER.

For it - 79 •
Against it

-- After Strangers were re-admitted, the Report of
the Cinnamon Doty Bill was brOught up, read, and
agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third
time to-morrow.

Accounts.'were presented 'from the East India
Companyrelative to their Servants ar Bencoplen;
which were.ordered to lie on .the Table.

Adjourned at six o'clock till to-niorrow.

THE SUN.

SOLEN: "QtJiS DICER:E FALSUM AUDEAT ?

LONDON, 11111 CII zo, iBoz.

UNLIKE our Cotemporaries, we have sedblotisly
abstained from . agitating the Public Mind by the
communication of every idle rumour which—may
have been.- afloat respeling the Negotiation at
Amiens: Satisfied with the , superiority of our
sources'Onkelligedce, we shall not fait to make
*.the earliest cotanibniciltion of eirctOnstances-, when-
any such occur as we can with propriety and
confidence impart to
„our Readers. .- The line of
.conduct , which we have adopted. upon this im.
'potiant;OCCasiOn; precludes.us from paying any at-
tention to a report received`this morning front
but which some of our ill-informed Cotempotaries
may probably very pompously—detail. -We- are-
well assured that no Official Communication has
either been received from, or made to, the Marquis
CORNWALLIS for the last three days. - •

WE this morning received an imperfea set of the
Paris Papers of the 6th inst. by the way Of lictt-
lope. They are principally filled with Extrads
from the German Papers; and consequently contain
numerous speculations on the important subjea of
Indemnities.

It appears by Letters from the South of France,
that they have again suffered "very cOniiderable da..
mages in that quarter, from inundations. ,
Letters from the Banks .:of the Meig, dated the
r6th ‘•rcbruary, state, that M. de liiitrowiTZ, the
Hussian Minister, 114 d a Conference at Berlin
,with
General BELT NO.NV ILL E, the French Ambassador,
upon the subjea of Indemnities in Germany. The
Conferences lasted two days: when they.. were
over, M. de fIAUGSVIiI communicated the result
to His MAJESTY, and General BEURTIONViL L E
immediately sent off Courier -with Dispatches' to
Paris.

It is understood, tjTat many propositions' have
been made ro the Cabinet of Berlin,-relative to the
Dutch), ofillea/en:/irg. We are not ignorant of the
desire of the French Government, that Prussia-should
cede., all her PQSSCSSions in Westphalia, as well
as those to which she forms pretentions, to some
Secidar.Prinee, in' lank!' that the frontiers of Prus-
sia, and those of France and Holland, may be removed
farther from each other; but the Prussian Ministry
are equally persuaded; that by concearrating the
Prussian States, their alliance with France will be
more strongly cemented. The great difticulty, how_
.
ever, is to find States of equal 'extent and equal pc-
'pulation, to indemnify the Coprt of Berlin.
Several German Papers state, that the KMG of
SARDINIA will be ihdemnified in Germany , and
that another Prince has renounced the Indethnities
which were primiised him in that County.

The French Funds have risen a litae they are
at 56f. 45c.

COPRikIIiAGEI4, FEB. zo.--The I%ty established
the lid of March last yeaf, on the Passage of the
. .
Belt; is annulled by a Decree of His Majesty,• on a
reptesentation rrawlOtby the Direeton-General of the

Port's. •
tr F N 113 . tteg linent ilvissars
of the. GRAND' 'DUKE TIIRDINAND, nnd that of
Duke•Acs'EßT, are destined to attend the tbiri tots
at Piesburg, whilst he; &sides ,at the Hungarian
Diet ; a'nd they lairel'ecei4ed ot'ders'atcordingly;

._

' THIS morning the Hamburgh Mail arrived in
ciiurse. It is wholly barren of Intelligence.
A Letter frpm CO ;of nsta,Ht_nop_e; Jan.- r 5, states,
that an Embargo laid bf afe English on the Ships
about to. sail with mer.chandize from Byrn. had
given occasion to rottch conversation there. .

-tf.
. 4r

PLYMOUTH, MARCH S.;

itte Renard Sloor; of War; roifi
Cruize ; Lady Charlotte, EvANs;
and the Countess of Cardigan; HILLI ftotii Boar: