The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-16 00:00:00

mill, he worked ou a r,ecv and improved principle, simi-
lar to thst in use in France, line was able to obtain two
or three :hidings a quarter mere for the fl iur i L ndon
than in Readine.—(Hear.) These facts are worthy of
being known. The Noble Lord refers to a rule in France
with regard to grinding hard wheat in bond, and that
only soft wheat was allowed; but in that the Noble
Lord was mistaken, for the hard wheat was the best for
grinding. The charge for meterage, which the Noble
Lord stated to be a disadvantage to the English manu-
facturer, was peculiar to the city of London, and
did not apply to other outports. It was impossible to
say that the English miller was placed under any disad-
vantage as Cjg.) pared with the French miller. It was
also to be observed that the improvement in the con-
struction of mills was being adopted in this country..
Besides, the duty on coal imposed in France, gave the
English miller an advantag,f. There was no d. that
there was in Ireland a ditnielution in the cultivation of
wheat, and that the Irish milk rs, depending on their own
produce, w. re placed disedeantage as cempared with
those in London aid Liverpool, in being obliged to inv•
port corn from
Colonel DUNNE bad no great sympathy with mUlerso
for they had been violent free-treder:, still there was
cause of joy at their repentance. The argument in fa-
-our of free trade was the increase of the comforts of
ihe people, but that was not the case in Ireland. With
regard to the millers, they iinporned stones from France,
upon which they paid a duty of 10 per cent. He eon-
tended that the millers should be protected, arid he
was sure, if the Committee was granted, it would be
shown that free trade was the ruin of Ireland.
Lord NAAS replied. He observed that all the thee.
rerical and h)pothetical statem. nta made by the Hon.
Member for Westbury would not countervail the tact
that the millers of this country and of Ireland were in
state of great distress.—(Hear, hear.) With respect. to
:he Blaekfriars-bridge mill, to which reference had so
often been made, ho had been over it, and conversed with
the gentleman who constructed it, and his answer was,
that that mill was commenced before the law of 1846
was passed; that it was commenced at a time when the
millers thought their trade was likely to increase. and
be a profitable one, and when matters were in a different
position from what they were now.—(Hear, hear.) As
el the new invention to which the lion. Member for
Westbury had referred, he begged to say that the pa-
tentee had failed to convince the bast millers in England
that it would be of any value to them, and that they were
not likely to adept it.—(hear, bear.)
Mr. MACGREGOR rose amid loud cries of " Di-
vide," and " On, oh." The Hon. Gentleman madie se-
veral ineffectual attempts to address the House, but
was received with calls of " No, no;" Oh, ohl"
and " Divide;" amid which the Hon. Gentleman ex-
claimed that he would move the adjournment of the

House.
Mr. HUME hoped his Hon. Friend would not press
his motion.
A division then took place upon Lord Natts's motions
when the numbers were—
Fur the motion... ... ... 93
Against it ... ••• 128
Maj rity against the motion ..„ —35
Mr. BANKES gave notice of the terms of a resolution
for to-morrow, relative to the St. Alban's' election wit-
nesses who have withdrawn from the United Kingdom.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON moved fora "return of the
number of cases of cattle and sheep stealing reported by
the constabulary in the countie3 of Westmeath and Rot-
common respectively during each of the three last
years, ending the Ist day of June, 1651; of the number
of persons committed for trial or bailed for such
offence.; of the number of such persons convicteed; of
their sentences, and a statement of the names and cases
in which such sentences have been commuted, or pardons
granted, up to the present time; whether in each case
the commutation or pardon was recommended by the
judge, and the nature and date of such commutation or
pardon,"
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and Sir VV.
SOMERVILLE opposed the motion, we toe ground of the
inconvenieoce and injustice that might arise.
Mr. O'FLAHERTY thought some such return web
called for, as an impression prevailed in Ireland that
shrep stealing offenders had been allowed to come back
atter being transported.
Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree to the motion as
it now stood, b cause, unless there was some case of very
grave deliuqueucy on the part of the Irish authorities,
it would n. 113, proper for that House to take the prero-
gative of the Crown into its hands. He would recom-
mend the lion. G. ntlennan, therefore, to withdraw the
motion, and bring it forward, on a future day, in a less
objectionable shape.
Mr. DISRAELI should be sorry to support any Mo-
tion that would aff ct the prerogative of the Crown, but
he could see nothing in the motion that would have that
tendency. It, however, the last sentence of the mod, U
were omitted, viz , that relating to the commutation being
recommended by the judge, &c., he thought there could
be no possitde objection to it on the part of the Govern-
ment.
Lord J. RUSSELL was quite willing to agree to the
w:to that alteration.
Mr. HAMILTON consented, and the motion, at
amended, was agreed to.
Toe orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Q layer to One o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 15.
The LARD CHANCELLOR tOuk his seat upon the Wool'
Rack at Five e'elt,ek.
GUNPOWDER S I'OWAGE (LIVERPOOL) BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE moved that this Bill be referred
to a :el, et Committee.

- -
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the
proprietors of property on the banks of the nerseee
praying to be heard by counsel against the Bill.
The motion was agreed to.
PETITIONS.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS, in presenting several
petitions against the Ecclesiastical Titles Assumption
Bill, took occasion to recommend to the attention of the
Government a pamphlet, written by Mr. Eneas Mee,
donnell, on this subject. The Noble Earl also presented
e-veral petitions praying for the preservation of the
Crystal Palace.
• Lord WODEHOUSE presented petitions from the
Cape of Good Hope in favour of a constitutional go'
veremeut.
ST. ALBANS BRIBERY BILL.
Lord BEAUMONT postponed the motion for tte
Committee on this Bill.
THE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE.
The Earl of DERBY ruse to move, according to no-
tice, that the papers laid before this House during
the present and the last session of Parlia-
ment relating to the settlement of a constitution
for the Cape of Good Hope should be referred to
Select Committee. He had heard with great regret
that it was the inti ntion of her Majesty's Government
to oppose this motion. He could assure them that
he brought forward this motion in no spirit
either of personal or of party hostility to the Govern'
merit. He had no wish to add to the embarrassments of
the Noble Earl opposite at the bead of
Ihe Colonial office ; his object was rather to
relieve those errib4rrassments, and to endeavour to naiti"
gate the force of those elements of, he Was afraid he root
cad it, disaffection at present existing in that colon)**
The colony was what was commonly called a Crown
colony. It had been acquired by conquest, and its insu'
iutions were w belly granted by the Crown, but the
Crown, having once granted those institutions, had not
the power of withdrawing them. (Hear, heart)
Many of their Lordship e, perhaps, were 06
aware of the exact history of the colony, and there'
fore he should have to go at some length into the
history of the different proposals which had been made
tor conferring a represental ive Government on the colony
( Ile Noble Earl then shortly related the history of
the cotes.), in 1842.) Its the year 1842, when 138
held tine office of Colonial Secretary, a petition hau
presented to him from the colony on the eunjeet
c interring representative institutions on the colooe-
He had, in reply to that petition, written a dispstehe
in which he pointed out the difficulties which stood
in the way of complying with the requests of that
petition, and stating his desire to have an answer
from the petitioners on the subject. This was in April,
1842, and no answer bad been returned to it up to the
autumn of 1846. At that time the Noble Earl
opposite assumed office, and he sent out a dispatch .
to Sir Henry pottinger, directing his attention to that
dispatch
of 1842, to which no answer bad been re'
turned and etteing that it was the desire of her
M,
ii„tyee Government to confer representative Intel.
tutiens on the colony. Its 1848 Sir Henry Pottinors
successor, Sir Harry smith,
answered the dispatch hi.
forwarding to the Noble Earl a dispatch, which set forth.
the view of these in authority on the subject of confer"
ring representative government on the colony. E.
now el'llet the ateetei of the Need*, Earl to his miser
prehen:ion of the views which he (the Earl of Derby)
had talin on that subject. In the commencement of the
year 1848 Sir 11. Smith, who bad then succeeded to the
govpeartecmheonitE.ri
of. tine Cape of Good Hops, answered the
dispatch
Grey in 1846 by forwarding to him the
views of his °Metal advisers on the course suggested by
that Noble Earl. Sir H. Smith had laid that dispatch .
before Mr. Porter, the Attorney-General of the coloni~.
with a View of eliciting his opinion how representative
institutions could be best introduced into it. His opinion,
with the questions of Earl Grey, was also submitted to
Mr. Montague, the secretery to the Colonial Gover'
nor, to the colonial treasurer, to the collector of customs,
to the chief justice, and to the two puisne judges. The
question. whether representative institutions ought to be
introduced into the colony was scarcely submitted te
those intelligent public officers—the question appeared
to be limited to the mode of introducing them. OP
Montague said,—
"It appears to me, therefore, that I shall best serve
his Excellency by abstaining from all theoretic or ab'
street discussion on general principles of the good er
evil likely to result from the establishment of a represen'
to ive form of government in this or any other deign'
de ncy, and by endeavouring, to the best of my ability, I°,,
furnish him with such information on the points referred
to, as will enable him to form some estimate of the el;
rent and character of the difficulties which had occurred
to Lott' Stanley, and to vthich Earl Grey so pointedif
refers."
Another said, " That the period had arrived when a. re°
presentative government could be safely extended to the
Cape of Good Hope." Another skid, " That a repro'
seutative government was a bold experiment, but it cool('
not be well avoided." What he wished to paint out to
the consideration of their Lordships was this—that these
gentlemen did not give their opinion as to the propriety
of introducing representative ILISLItULIOIIB into the colonP
but as to the plan of introducing them which would be,
the safest and the most practicable. Two eery le,"
gentlemen bad serious misgivings on that point.
Porter, who was a great advocate for free institutions'
closed his opinions with these words:—
" I have ventured to term a representative assembly el
the Cape 'an experiment;' his Excellency, who WWI e
the colony and the people well, will not, I think, consider.