The Sun.
London, England, 1834-01-13 00:00:00

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A GENEitAL BIOGRAPHICAL
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The debate on the arldrtss was resumed, and the dis-
cussion of the 10th paragraph, relative to the Foreign
relations of the country continued.
M. Alphonse de h Martine again developed the system
which he bad on the general discussion of the Address
presented to the Chamber, and entered into a lengthened
and minute description of the geographical position, man-
ners, customs, and resources of the various people com-
posing the Ottoman Empire, or contiguous to it. The
Hon. Deputy moved the following amendment:—" We
feel confident that your Majesty, with that wise fore-
thought which the tottering state of the East calls for and
inspires, will immediately open negotiations that may
prevent the disturbance,of the European balance of power;
and, at the same time, hinder an event which ought to
change the face of the world, and enlarge the sphere of
civilization, from becoming the signal of a sterile warfare,
and a struggle without any useful result for humanity."
The Hon. Deputy expressed his surprise that the principle
of his system should have met with an opponent in the
Person of M. Bignon, who for fifteen years had professed
a palicy marked by liberality, and favourable to the pro-
gress of civilization. "Itis to the Chamber, however,"
added M. de la Martine, " that I look—to that Chamber
whi-elt naturally represents the instinctive generosity
of the nation." In order to demonstrate the necessity
there was for France to encourage the progress of the
Viceroy of Egypt, the Hon. Deputy drew a striking pic-
ture of the organised anarchy which reigns in Turkey,
and predicted the near and inevitable fall of the Sultan.
" This Prince," continued M. de la Martine, " already
despairs of himself and his people ; be is resigned to draw
out the remainder of his reign upon the semblance of a
throne ; in a word, the Ottoman spirit is extinct." The
Hon. Deputy proceeded to ask if France would remain an
idle spectatress of the ruin of Turkey, and if she would
allow that empire to be dismembered, for the exclusive
profit of the two Powers, who were so eagerly desirous of
sharing her rich spoils. The following is the substance r•f
the measure which, in the opinion of M. de la Martine,
would be the most proper to take with regard to the affairs
of the East:.-Ist. A fundamental principle should be
laid down, that not a single European Power should alone
interfere in the concerns of the East. 2d. A general and
collective protectorate, composed of the Western Powers,
should be formed to take cognizance of the affairs of the
East, and should be admitted as the basis of a new code of
international law. 3d. The various religions of the East
should be protected, and their exercise guaranteed. 4th.
In order to regularise the collective protectorate, European
and Asiatic Turkey should be divided into partial protec-
torates, or into provinces similar to those of Africa
and Asia, into which the Romans poured the surplus of
their population, and which should be placed at the dispo•
sition of the different European Powers, for the same
purpose.—(Marks of doubt and incredulity front all parts
of the Chamber.)

M. Delaborde combated the system put forward by M.
de la Martine; in his opinion Turkey was near its disso-
lution ; and it therefore became unnecessary to lose time in
conjecturing what it would be necessary to do in case of
its fall, which was still far distant. M. Delaborde added,
that he did not altogether approve of that passage of the
Address relative to the affairs of the Ease. I❑ his opinion,
the wisest course the European Powers could adopt would
be to attempt to reconcile the Egyptian vassal to his
Turkish sovereign.
M. Mauguin recapitulated what he bad already said
during the general discussion upon the Address, upon the
alarming increase of the influence of Russia, Austria, and
Prussia, by the subjection of Poland, the annihilation of
the rights of the minor German states, and finally, by the
Austrian domination in Italy. This, added he, is what
it was my intention to have developed yesterday ; but,
since then, an important event has taken place.—(Move-
ment.) What I mean to say is, that the Minister for
Foreign Affairs yesterday most unexpectedly declared his
full concurrence in, and adhesion to all the political views
and principles contained in the speech of M. Bignon; and
thereby virtually adopted the system of the Opposition.
The Minister acknowledged, with M. Bignon—that is to
say, with the Opposition—that the conduct of Russia was
fraught with danger, that imminent peril hung over the
minor states of Germany and over Italy, and finally, that
the present situation of Poland was contrary to every
public right. The Minister, in thus expressing himself,
avows that our views were correct. But how then hap-
pens it that in the speech from the Throne we are told
that the most perfect tranquillity was the order of the day?
M. Mauguin went on to say—l am fully convinced that
the Minister for Foreign Affairs was perfectly serious and
sincere in what he said, and I am still further persuaded
that it was with the entire concurrence of his colleagues
that he thus spoke. That being. the case, I shall take the
liberty of telling the Ministers collectively, that they have
spoken to us in the following frank language :—" We be-
lieved hitherto in the pacific dispositions and good will of
foreign Powers, but we now find we were mistaken ; we
acknowledge our error, and leave to others the reins of
power."—(Laughter.)

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, in reply to M. Mau•
guin, said, "The words I made use of in speaking of M.
Bignon's speech were as follows :—' I thank the Commis•
sion of Address; all the principles contained in which we
adopt. I thank also M. Bignon for the praise be has be-
stowed upon several acts of the Administration, as well as
for the wisdom and moderation of his observations, which
are in accord with those of the Government.' This was
what I said; and I meant my expressions to refer solely
to a development of principles relative to the conduct of
France, in case the existing treaties should not be faithfully
executed by foreign Powers. I thus only gave my former
adhesion to principles which appeared to me sound and
just ; but with regard to the hypotheses, conjectures, or
apprehensions, of the Hon. Deputy, I said nothing which
could lead any one to think that the Government shared
in them ; as to the nature of the principle developed by
the Hon. M. Bignon, it is that France thinks herself bound
to execute, with fidelity, existing treaties. Have we not,
for the last three years, been acting upon this principle,
and endeavouring to maintain the established order of
things in Europe, which should not be changed but by
the common consent of all parties concerned ? To re-
turn," continued the Minister, " to the question of our
foreign relations, if it be asked me if I see any
thing in the present state of things that ought to make
us dread the interruption of peace. I answer—l do not
think so. As to Italy, I declare that nothing has come
to my knowledge which ought to authorise any apprehen-
sions. Its situation is the same as it was two years ago."
With regard to Germany, the Minister entered into a
description of the nature and constitution of the Diet of
Frankfort, which was formed alone for the regulation of
the international interests of the various States comprising
the Diet; and added, "It could only be in the event of
the Diet undertaking to adopt any fundamental political
reforms, such as uniting the different States of Germany
under one Government, that any danger could menace
France from its proceedings. Gentlemen," said the Mi-
nister, "you are not called upon to protect the independ-
ence of the minor States from the encroachments of the
greater ones. The same union exists amongst them as
last year. The general peace of Europe is not threatened
in that quarter. The only question remaining to pre-
occupy the public mind is that concerning the East; and
that also, I am bound to say, presents itself under a point
of view perfectly satisfactory. There has been a perfect
union of efforts between France and England to hasten the
pacification of the East, and the accomplishment of the
engagements entered into by Russia to withdraw her fleet
and troops from Turkey. A single incident has tended,
in appearance, to perplex the affairs of the East ; that is,
the existence of a treaty between Turkey and Russia. I
believe that, upon the subject of this treaty, in soy ima-
ginary fears have been entertained. Their treaty has
changed in no respect the situation of things, and confers
no exclusive rights upon any European Power. The chief
purport of this treaty is an engagement contracted by
Russia to furnish the Sultan with vessels and troops, in
case the latter should make a request to that effect. So
that Russia, who heretofore could give or withhold at her
pleasure, aid to Turkey, is now, by this treaty, bound to
come to her assistance in case such assistance is expressly
called for by Turkey.---(Murmurs.) It has been said that
by this treaty the Dardanelles belong to Russia; such is
not the case. By this treaty, it is said, that the Sultan
has engaged, in case of Russia being at war with any
European Power, to close the Dardanelles. But it is a
well known fact, that the entrance to the Dardanelles is
closed, even in time of peace, against all armed vessels.
That is an acknowledged principle of public law in Eu-
rope. The article of the treaty in question, therefore,

creates no new privilege in favour of Russia, it is of no
importance, and ought not to inspil e any alarm. —(Murmurs
from the Extremities, &c.) The Minister, in alluding to
the affairs of Spain and Portugal, said that the French
Government had lost no time in recognising Donna Maria,
and that even at a moment when fortune seemed to be but
little favourable to her. In acting thus the Government
was guided alone by the dictates of reason and justice.
The Government, however, thought itself not justified in
taking any further steps than this recognition, accompanied
with its best wishes for the success of the young Queen.
The case, however, was not the same with regard to Spain.
In the case of that country, the near neignbour, and natural
ally of France, the Government felt itself called upon not
only immediately to recognise the Queen Isabella, but also
to make her an offer of effective aid, to provision St. Se-
bastian, and furnish arms to the Captain-General of Cata-
lonia. If it should be asked, what are to he the limits of
this assistance? the answer is—When the interests of
France shall call for its cessation.

- .- -
M. Mauguin asked if the French Government bad left
Spain at perfect liberty to modify her internal organiza-
tion, or give herself a Constitution if she so wished it ?
The Minister for Foreign Affairs replied that the French
Government never thought of either imposing on or dic-
tating to Spain any particular form of Government or
po'itical institution. They confined themselves strictly
within the limits prescribed to them by the interests and
rights of France.
M. Odillon Barrot called upon the Government to insist
upon the rigorous execution of the treaties of 1815. These
treaties contained guarantees of the highest importance to
the prosperity and honour of France. One of these
guarantees was the complete and integral preservation of
the Ottoman Empire.
The Minister of Foreign Affairs, in reply, recapitulated
what he had already said on the purport of the treaty
recently entered into between Russia and Turkey, and
contended that the consequences of that treaty were
greatly exaggerated and misrepresented.
M. Odillon Barrot—This treaty has excited great at-
tention and indignation in England. Why should we be
more indifferent or negligent on the subject ? England and
France are now at the head of the civiliseo world, and yet
they have been unable to prevent the ruin of Poland. Let
that deplorable event serve as a warning to them fur the
future. The Hon. Deputy concluded be saying that be
could not partake the security which the Minister for
Foreign Affairs seemed to feel with regard to the treaty
between Russia and the Porte. The Minister himself bad
acknowledged that the event was of importance.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs addressed a few words
from his place to M. Odillon Barrot, which were not dis-
tinctly beard.
M. Mauguin (from his place)—The treaty contains
mush more than the Minister has avowed. —(Movement.)
As this treaty is only known to us through the press, I
call upon the Minister, in the interest of France, to com-
municate it to theChamber.—(Murrours from the Centre.)
The Minister for Foreign Affairs—Certainly not, cer.
taioly net.—(General movement.)
M. Maugnin—The refusal of the Minister would pre•
cisely lead us to suppose that the passage of the Dardanelles
is by the treaty in question closed against every other
Power but Russia.—(Yes, yes, from the Extremites.)
M. Odillon Barrot expressed his astonishment that
France and England, now so closely united, should look
on with indifference at the actual ruin of the Ottoman
empire, an event of the most awful importance, to prevent
which either of these Powers ought to take up arms, even
were she to act alone and with all Europe opposed to her.
A feeble state may resign its rights without losing all its
moral dignity, but strength combined with impotence
merits nothing but contempt.
The Minister of Commerce, in a very rapid and ani-
mated speech, replied to the principal objections made to
the conduct of the Ministry by the two Members of Op.
position who spoke last, and after enforcing the same
views of the foreign relations of the country as those taken
by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, concluded by likewise
asserting that the recent treaty between Russia and
Turkey contained nothing that ought to excite alarm or
call for interference.

At half-past six the debate was adjourned.
SITTING OF JAN. 9.

At a quarter to two o'clock the debate on the address
was resumed, the tenth paragraph being still the subject
of discussion.

M. Larabit said that, though he approved of the mea-
sure of assembling troops on the frontiers of Spain, he yet
considered it his duty to complain that, for that purpose, a
supplementary levy of 35,000 men should have been made
witbout the participation of the Legislature, the more
particularly as this levy was not necessary, since at the
same time an immense number of conscripts, who bad
served their full time, had been allowed to return to their
homes on furlough. The Hon. Deputy then insisted upon
the necessity of a law for the more equal distribution of the
charge or tax levied for the billeting of the army. M.
Larabit then proceeded to refute what Gen. Bugeaud had
said of the impossibility of giving effective aid to Poland.
General Bugeaud—l persist in asserting that it would
have required 800,000 men to have achieved any perma-
nently useful diversion in favour of Poland. What I said
on that subject was what it was my duty to know as a
military man ; but what these gentlemen object to my
views is nothing but a vague aerian and meteorological
di plomacy.—(General laughter.)
Paragraph 10 was adopted, as likewise paragraphs 11,
12, 13, and 14.
The amendment proposed by M. de la Martine to the
15th paragraph, relative to the Ottoman empire, not being
seconded, the 15th paragraph was adopted.
The 16th paragraph being read,

M. Jousselin observed, that as this paragraph contained
an implicit acknowledgment of the treaties of 1814 and
1815, he should be sorry to see the Chamber enter into
any positive engagement with regard to the stipulations of
1815, which, in his opinion, ought not to have been
agreed to. lie, therefore (added the Hon. Deputy),
proposed that the 16th paragaaph should be altogether
rejected.
The I6th paragraph was put to the vote and adopted.
M. Odillon Barrot proposed the following addition to
the 16th paragraph :—" The Chamber of Deputies has
the assurance that the Government of your Majesty has
protested against the present state of Poland, and that it
will continue earnestly and perseveringly in favour of that
brave and unfortunate nation."

--- -
The Minister of Commerce said, " Without meaning
to oppose the addition proposed by M. Barrot, I affirm
that the Government has been wanting in none of its
duties towards Poland."

The amendment being put to the vote, was adopted
almost unanimously.
M. Dupin left the President's chair, and was replaced
by M. Etienne, Vice• President.
The 17th paragraph being read,
M. Dupin ascended the tribune.—(General marks of
attention.) The llon. Deputy said—We at lenzth ap-
proach the close of a discussion, during which all shades
of opinions have been proclaimed freely, very freely; and
owing to that very high degree of freedom, perhaps, it
is that some doctrines have been hazarded which appear
to sap the very foundations of Government. "It is,"
continued the Lion. Deputy, " in conformity to toy oath,
and through respect for the obligations it imposes upon
me—it is for the honour of the Chamber, and in the
interest of the country, that 1 rise with the intention of
recalling to your minds the principles under the influence
of which the Government of 1830 was formed. For
some time back the watchword of all parties seems to be
the sovereignty of the people. It is an argument with
which the Government is continually taunted. So that,
because in an excess of national anger, the oppressive
regime of the restoration was overthrown, it is required
that the people should make use of the same force
which did it such good service then—should make use,
I repeat, of the same force against the new order of
things which replaced the restoration. It is wished
that the people should abindon for ever the thought
of finding repose under the shelter of any government;
and perpetual appeAls are made to their sovereignty—
that is to say, to their brute force. The holders of opi-
nions of the most contrary nature seem to reckon upon
the aid of this sovereignty as the only means of realizing
their hopes. This magic word is made use of in two
senses ; one party employs it as a term of derision and
insult towards the people. It is for this party au evtr
active means of exciting trouble—an energetic dissolvent,
is employed on all occasions without pity. Wbtn
you observe that with such doctrines, pushed to their la•t
result, all government is impossible, ho tells you the
contrary?' is the only answer you obtain.—(Movement ;
the eyes of the assembly were directed to M. Berryer'

vt_Alli_eCYL)
-11'6(/Z d 6 CC/n_
sea ,
but he was absent.) 'Chun you see certain al,
have made up their minds to have no kind of government.
They hesitate not to fix opprobrium upon the sovereignty
of the people, by saying that with it nothing can be este-
hlished, nothing can be conboidated ; in fine, that anarchy.
Nim'e-m; is its inseparable companion. In fine, in order to under-
stand clearly the ideas of this party, it is only necessary to
know what they loudly proclaim—that their intention is
to pass through the republic in order to arrive at Henry V.
()there, who join the pretended Royalists in calumniating
and snacking the Government, do so with the intention of
replacing our hereditary monarchy by a republic. Unfor-
tunate, and yet too evident concurrence I—a concurrence,
not taking the form of an alliance, but avowed, openly
avowed. It is, as it has been told you here, from this tri-
bune, a collective struggle; and to what purpose? and what
are the advantages it isexpected the country will derive from
it? " Gentlemen," continued M. Dupin, "if there he
an agreement between these parties, there ought to be ale)
an union between all good citizens.—(Yes, yes, from the
centre.) Every lover of aid, r must devote his entire
energies to the maintenance of our institutions; with so
worthy an object in view success cannot be doubtful.—
(Approbation from the centre.) As to the Legitimatists,
it would come very ill from them to deny the sovereignty
of the people, for it was that sovereignty that destroyed
their dynasty, and that conducted to Cherbure three
generations of their fallen princes, anti enabled us to pro'
teed to the nomination of a new Kings The Legttims-
tists, thetefore, are perfectly warranted in recogtraing the
sovereignty of the people, but let them not invoke it, but
submit to it.—(Very general marks of approbation., 'l'i,
people, more intelligent than certain sophist', have nand
destroyed the degrading and tntimprovable system of the
'ate dynasty, for the purpose of a abort time after seeking
to resuscitate and reclaim it to life. They have not driven
away Charles X. and his courtiers in order to bring back
Henry V. and his preceptors."—(Laughter.) After a
rapid view of the days of July, and describing thee offer
of the crown by the people, and its acceptance by this
Duke of Orleans, the Hon. Deputy continued—" These;
gentlemen, are facts, trumpet-tongued facts, that sufficiently
answer all the doubts that a perverse ingenuity seeks to
throw upon the pest, which is still so near us." The
Hon. Deputy continued—" In the eyes of the Legititna-
tists, the Duke of Orleans, as cousin to the Men dynasty,
is more criminal for having accepted the throne, than any or
the men who fought against the Royal Guard in the streets
of Paris. It is in this hatred of the Legitimatists agcteet
the Orleans branch of the family, that consists our firee
guarantee. If the Duke of Orleans had been merely a
Bourbon, he might have departed with the Bourbons
without any one attempting to keep him.—(Laughter.)
Detested by the eldest branch of the family, and national
in his opinions as they were anti-national, the Duke of
Orleans found in the very circumstances which isolated
him from the family of Charles X., his first title to Le
proclaimed head of the great French family. To resume,
in a few words, what we gained by this event, let it be
recollected," pursued M. Dupin, " that we have beets freed
from a dynasty that was imposed upon the country by
foreign force, without the aid of which they never could
have returned to reign over France. We have gut rid of
a reactionary, vindictive, and sanguinary system, and in
which the national glory was proscribed—a system which
is stigmatized by your address, in all that it had of fatal and
anti-natienal tendency. The new Government that we
have obtained, let it be our chiefest care to defend and
support it." M. Dupin then proceeded to say—"Mucis has
been said of our position with regard to Foreisn Powet',
but in my opiniou the more important consideration for tea
is, to fortify and consolidate our institutions. Attempt
nothing abroad if everything be not firmly established et
home. This leads me to say a few words upon eel,
tain symptoms of imprudence, of a nature to endanger
social order at home, and compromise the country abroad.
How happens it that we, who ought to have some ea..
perienee of the affairs of the world, can imagine that they
will not be hurried forward in the path of Robespierre,
because at present they confine themselves to adopting
his manifesto ? They think that they will not be urged
towards the same results as he was, because they are at
present only at the point from which he set out,—
(Bravoes from the centre.) Let them only reflect upon
the impotency of the human will, when met by the force
of circumstances that must sway it as irresistibly as the
wind controls the feather that it bears along. All that has
been said in the two speeches that you have heard has been
called ' liberty of discussion !' A very great liberty, in-
deed But let us see if it was compatible with the duties
of a member of this assembly. In a country where the
liberty of the press exists, what is called philosophical dis-
cussion cannot want for organs or an arena. But ought
every thing that appears in the public journals to be again
uttered by the lips of a man who in this Chamber-ceases to
be a private individual, and who is clothed with a public
character, and represents a considerable portion of the
population, who has entered here in virtue of an oath,
which he voluntarily took—an oath of obedience to the
Constitution and fidelity to the King of the French ? Yes,
liberty of discussion ; for if you go beyond that you break
your oath. What confidence can be placed in a man who
has taken an oath to Louis Philip, and who wishes to
dethrone him ?—who has sworn to the Constitution, and
yet wishes to change it for another—who has sworn obe-,
thence to the laws, and who sets them at defiance ? I
shall venture to say, that to act thus is not to act within
the limits either of good faith or of honour."—(Great
noise.) M. Dupin then referred to the subject of associa-
tions, upon which he said the right of association under
certain points of view was useful and deserving of respect,
but the right of political association cannot be per-
mitted, for the first duty of a Government is that of self-
preservation. Would the Republic have allowed to exist
an association formed for the purpose of favouring the re-
turn of Royalty? Has there been a Government that to-
lerated, or could tolerate, a secret of subterranean
Government, organized expressly for its destruction ?;—a
Government, in a word, of associations and congregations ?
M. Dupin concluded by stating what in his opinion the
country wished for, and what she was averse to. " She
wished not," he said, " for the excesses of the Republic,
which must inevitably recur were the Republic to reappear
amongst us, nor did she wish for the debasing system of
the Restoration. France, which might have made her
choice in July, 1830, refused the Republic ; and the
country which dismissed Charles X. is little inclined to
send out a mission to invite back Henry V. Now, as to
what France wishes for, and what we are all desirous of
preserving—that is, an hereditary monarchy, not come to
us by divine right, but as the result of a contract. We
desire a monarchy, because we are unwilling to run the
risk of being obliged to take refuge from anarchy in a dic-
tatorship, and because we are unwilling that foreign Go-
vernments should take advantage of our perpetual dissen-
sions. The charter also;is one of our wishes—a charter free'y
granted by the Chambers, and imposed upon the King as
a preliminary and sine qua non condition. We also
wish for a ministry which is united as one man—an inde-
pendent, and consequently a responsible Ministry. We
wish for two Chambers, in order to avoid the tyranny of
one alone—the annual vote of the budget, a guarantee
of the rights of all. As to the liberty of the press, who
is bold enough to say that we have it not? We wish to
continue our progress to liberty, but by constitutional
means—we wish for regular debates, which are not to
begin by a revolution and end in anarcby.—(Applause
trom the centre.) We wish for liberty according to the
laws, and not for liberty or death, whose standard is of
the colour of blood. Such is the spirit and sentiments
that pervade the address of the Chamber. Let us all joint
our efforts to put down what it condemns, and defend
and maintain what it recommends."—(Marks of appro-
bation from various parts of the Chamber.)
M. Gamier Pages said, the few observations he was
about to make would be confined to the question of the'
oath. He could not, he continued, conceive how the
obligation of the oath could be so unreasonably rigorous
as to prevent those who had taken it from endeavouring
in any way to improve the constitution.—(Murmurs from
the centre.)
The Keeper of the Seals replied to Al. Gamier Pages
and repeated in substance what he had said in a formera
part of the debate, upon the subjectwoifhthree
oath,
ard and
the
what M. Dupin had just expressed.i.
right of association. a
confine myself (said thes
out the danger likely to arise from a new mode which
these associations have recently adopted, of agitating the
country by means of
petitions ready prepared, and which
cKoneeceprenr s political
thei oca
Seale)
matters,tesg to pointing
shall
ire put into the hands of classes of citizens to sign, who,
frem their want of knowledge, or not being aware of the real
purport of those petitions, are unable to foresee the results
la which they may lead. M. Barthe gave as an instance,
a petition drawn up by M. Cormenin, in which changes
of the most serious nature in the form of the Government
were called for.—(Cries of " Question, question.")
M. de Tracy, amidst cries of " Question, question,"
moved that the words—" Public morality will resume its
empire," be suppressed, as recalling the habits of the
resteration.
This amendment, agreed to by Meutrs. Barthe and
Guizot, was adopted.
17
Theth and last paragraph was put to the vote, and
A ballot was then bad on the ensemble of the address,
the result of which was—Number of votes, 311 ; for
to.
agreed
agreeing to the address, 268 ; against it, 43.
The address was agreed to.
The names of the grand deputation charged to present