The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-08 00:00:00

BODIES OF CRIMINALS BILL.

Lord S UFFIED moved the second reading of this Bill.
The object was to repeal the statute which leaves it optional
with Judges to sentence the bodies of criminals Iwho are exe-
cuted to be hung in chains, or buried in the precincts of the
prison, and to make it imperative on them to order them to
be buried in the precincts of the prison. The practice of
hanging in chains was a barbarous one ; it was pursuing a
criminal with the vengeance of the law after his death. He
thought that the spirit of revenge--for such he must call it—
might be sufficiently gratified by the criminal's remains being
buried within the precincts of the prison.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Friday next.
The House then adjourned at a quarter to seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 7.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 25 minutes past five

IRISH COERCION BILL.
Lord A LTHORP brought up papers, by command of
his Majesty, relating to the state of Ireland. The
Noble 'Lord, in moving that the papers be printed,
said, that he felt it his duty to state, that in
the communications which his Right Hon. Friend the Se-
cretary for Ireland had had with the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for the city of Dublin, he had good ground for stating to
that Hon. and Learned Gentleman that the ipiestion of the
re-enactment of the three first clauses of the Coercion Bill
"was still under consideration. He had also grounds for stating,
that it was probable these clauses would not be re-enacted ; but
he had no reason to state, and he (Lord Althorp) believed that
his Right Hon. Friend did not state, that the opinion of his
Majesty's Government had been, made up upon the subject,
because the Right Honourable Gentlemap had had no,
communication with his- Noble Friend (Earl Grey),
and no doubt existed in his Noble Friend's mind
as to the necessity that existed forlAhe .renewal of

that Bill. With respect to the communications which had
taken place, he (Lord A.) should not be inclined to attribute
any indiscretion to his Right Hon. Friend in stating that
the question had not been decided on, and cautioning the
Hon. and Learned Member not to commit himself—( Hear,
hear.) He should make no .observation further upon the mat-
ter, as his Right Honourable Friend had stated his
own opinion pretty fully. It was also due to his
Right Honourable Friend to state, that on gaiitrday
he had tendered his resignation, and that he now holds office
at the request of Earl Grey and his Majesty.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") All the Members of his Majesty's Govern-
ment were anxious that he should continue to hold, it as they
valued the assistance of his Right Hon. Friend too highly to
be willing to dispense with it.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. H UME expressed his conviction that the Right Hon.
Gentleman was perfectly warranted in the communication which
he had made to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
and from what had come to his knowledge, for he (Mr. H.)
was not present, he thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman
stood perfectly clear in the opinion of that House. It was an
act kindly meant for the purpose of allaying the irritation
existing in the Hon. and Learned Member's mind at the pro-
spect of the re-enaction of the Coercion Bill. He regretted that
a Cabinet should exist so uncertain and undecided as to place
any Hon. Gent. in the situation in which his Right Hon. Friend
was then placed. He had heard with great surprise that the
Coercion Bill was a measure of one individual, and that that
individual would have resigned if the other members of the
Cabinet had not concurred with him.—( Hear, hear, hear. )
He understood that it was the act of Lord Grey, and that the
majority of the Cabinet was decidedly against it.—( Cries of
" No, no.") He only stated what was currently believed and
reported. Ministers had time to bring in Coercion Bills,
but they had no time to attend to what would be beneficial to the
country generally. He begged to ask the Noble Lord whether
the Local Courts Bill was to be introduced that session or not ?
He feared that that, and other questions of real benefit, were
likely to be passed by.—( Cries of " Oh," and " Hear,
hear," from the Irish Members on the opposition side.)
Measures so contrary to the principles on which the house
ought to act had been introduced respecting Ireland, that
no man on either side of the House, he was sure,
would ever have agreed to them if it had not been under
the most perfect confidence that measures would have been
taken to have allayed the agitation that had existed in that un-
happy country, and to remove from it that large standing
army which tended to keep it as a distinct country entirely
from England.—(Hear.)
Lord ALTHORP said that as to the statement that
the renewal of the Coercion Bill proceeded from one member
of the Cabinet, such reports could only be matter of sur-
mise; but as to what might be the individual or particular
opinion of any one member of the Cabinet, it was not his
duty to make any statement on that subject. When the ques-
tion came to be considered by that House, it would be for the
Government to give such reasons for the renewal of that Bill as
would induce the House to concur in it: He could not agree with
the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that the only measure that had
been passed this session was the Irish Coercion Bill. Those
who had attended in the House must be aware that that was
not so.--( Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") With respect
to the Local Courts Bill, he was sorry to say that
he did not think it would be possible to bring in and pass
that Bill this session now.
Mr. ROBINSON thought that he had a right to
ask the Noble Lord if it was true, as had been stated,
that Lord Wellesley, on the 20th of June, was adverse
to the renewal of the Bill, and whether any circumstances
had occurred since to cause him to alter his opinion ?
Lord ALTHORP said it was certainly true that communi-
cations had taken place between the English and Irish Govern-
ments, but he was free to state that the Coercion Bill was now
brought in with the perfect concurrence of the Irish Govern-
ment.

Mr. O'CONNELL said that one thing was certainly
beyond all dispute, that the documents now placed before
the. House ought not to be treated lightly but deliberately ;
and that if the liberties of the Irish people were of any
value to that House or to any Member in it, those
liberties ought to be considered in such a way as
to prevent flippant observations upon them, or any one taking
up any flippant views of them. His statement was not dif-
ferent from the Right Hon. Gentleman's the other day—
they were before the public, and how far statements
had been made to him was now beyond controversy, because
they had been admitted. Those statements demonstrated
that at that time the Irish government was against clauses in
the bill, and that Members of his Majesty's Cabinet were
decidedly against the Bill. They had now documents before
the House—whether they were the same as those before the
House of Lords or not he could not tell, but if they were, and
they were true, it was equally-clear that Lord Wellesley
_ _

on the 18th of April anxinusly called for the Bill. It was,
then, very desirable to know what had happened between
the 18th 6f April and the 20th of June, to induce him to
decide against the necessity of it ; and what, again, it
was between the 20th of June and the sth of July that caused
him to be in favour of the bill. Ought not these things to be
explained ? and with what just indignation would the people
of Ireland hear the echo of the cheer that met the statement of
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) that nothing had been done in
that House this session but coercing Irelind.--( Cheers.)
Were, then, the liberties of Ireland of so little value ? Was
it supposed that the Irish were such degraded slaves that they
would not demand that constitutional freedom which was en-

joyed in other portions of the same kingdom ? Here they were,
up and down ;" on the 20th of April for a Coercion Bill ; on
the 20th of June' for no Coercion Bill, on the sth of July for
the Bill again. He turned to every part of the House, and
asked how long was'reland to be the laughing-stock of Eng-
. .

land and of EUrope ?---(Hear.) Ireland was dealt with In
a manner that was 'riot presumed upon with regard
to the negro slaves of the West Indies. Were the liberties
of Ireland of so little value that no explanation was to
be given of this matter ? He had given notice of a motion,
and he meant to make it, for a Select Committee of

Inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) One of the principal supporting
newspapers of the Government, and that paper ought to sup-
port the Government, for they paid some of its writers liberally
—had admitted the justice of his complaint. How did the
Noble Lord talk of doing any thing for Ireland? What had
he done for Ireland this session ?—( Loud cries of " Hear.")
Ireland had been insulted by the difference in the Reform Bill
with regard to her. They talked then of removing ten
bishops, which he voted against, because it was of no real ser-
vice to Ireland. There was a boast of reducing the vestry cess
too. But what was really done this session ? They brought in
a Bill on the Ist of February; they altered it in March ; in
May it was again altered; and now it was of so question-
able a shape, that the Right Honourable Secretary of
War could not tell what it was even with the
assistance of two or three prompters.—(Laughter.)
But the Ministers had given a commission to Ireland.
Let not the Noble Lord turn ridicule upon Ireland. He
had done nothing—this Ministry had done nothing—and no-
thing would it do in its present state, except to coerce it.—
( Hear.) He , wanted no delay ; he was ready to go into
Committee immediately ; and he was willing to go to work
night and day. Therefore, if that feeling towards Ireland, of
‘vhich he had heard so much and so loudly cheered by that

House—if that desire to do justice to 'rebind still prevailed
amongst the Ministry, or the Opposition, the Whigs, the Go-
vernment party, or the Radicals, he trusted a fair trial would
be allowed for Ireland before it was convicted.—( Hear.) He
moved that the papers be referred to a Select Committee of
Inquiry.

Lord ALTHORP said that he had been misunderstood by
the Hon. Member for Middlesex, in the answer which he
had supposed him (Lord Althorp) to give. He did not state
that during this session there had been any measures adopted
which applied especially to Ireland. With respect to the mo-
tion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, it was not
his intention to accede to it. The papers which had been laid
on the table were such as Government conceived to justify the
proposition which they intended to bring forward ; and if, on
the consideration of those papers, it should appear to the
House that they were not such as to justify the proposition of
Government, of course the House would not agree to adopt it:

He was content to place the issue whether :the House U;ould
or would not agree to the proposition upon the pipers on the
-table. Whatever discussion there might have been since
the 18th of April. to which the Honourable and Learned
Member acknowledged, when they came to the discussion
of the question, he was sure that the grounds and the expla-
nation that would be given would be such as to satisfy the
House that they had not acted in the inconsistent manner
supposed, but if it should appear that they had acted most cau-
tiously, if it should appear that they had discussed every
question of doubt as to the extent of the measure,
in order that they might ascertain to what extent a
measure was necessary, then lie was sure that it would be be-
lieved that when they hesitated they had good grounds for
hesitation.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. GRATTAN said, that the measure of the
Noble Lord was most unconstitutional. In the annals.
of parliamentary history, there had never been known so cava-
lier a mode of disposing of the liberties of eight millions of
our fellow-subjects. What were the grounds upon which
the Noble Lord refused to accede to the motion of the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin ? The main object for which
the Bill of last year was passed no longer existed, yet they
were called upon to renew that measure, and by an order of a
Noble Lord in another place, to destroy the liberties
of the people of Ireland without inquiry or trial.—(Herr.)
They would be base indeed if they submitted to such a pre-
-ceeding, and he could tell the Noble Lord, that there were
many among the Irish members who would not submit to it.
If Ministers wished to sow dissension between the two coun-
tries they could not adopt a more successful plan, and they
wouldfind themselves left without a party in either country.
He knew that some men in Ireland wero speculating upon
commotions there ; he was ready to prove it before a Com-
mittee. He would tell the Noble Lord what they would
do—what he (Mr. Henry Grattan) should not be afraid to
do ; adopting the words of Lord Anglesey, he would " wait
a while.", It was much better that the countries should be
for ever separated than so united ; 1f they were not united
for community of liberties and privileges, he was not for re-
peal, he was for separation, and upon that principle he was
ready to act.—( Cheers.) The liberties of Ireland were to
be swept away at the mere will of a dictator ; Ministers took
away the representative right of the people, appointed an
executive officer, and made the opinion of that officer the
ground for abolishing the liberties of Ireland. Nothing could
be more monstrous, and yet the people were told to be
satisfied.—( Cheers.) He, for one, would not be satis-
fied, and he should be a traitor and a coward if he were satis-
fied. He would rather fall dead on the floor on the instant
than be satisfied with such treatment. Why had Lord Welles-
ley been so inconsistent, and why, having been so inconsistent,
was information as to the cause of his inconsistency to be re-
fused? Would the Protestants of Ireland bo contented, and
why were the people of the north to suffer for the conduct of

those in the south ? He vrel.
I knew upon what information
Ministers had acted ; it was proeurZl from police-officers, some
of whom be (Mr. H. G.) would not believe upon their oaths.
If he were examined on the Monaghan Colizmittee, he should
be ready to swear it. There was a species of insanity in this
proceeding, which he could not reconcile by anything he had
ever seen or read ; it was part of a systematic species of
plunder of the liberties of the people of Ireland. He' should
oppose it with his utmost exertions in every stage.
Mr: F. O'CONNOR protested against the measure ; he
would put it to the English Members of the House whether, if
such a monstrous Bill as this were proposed to them for Eng-
land they would not reject it at once ; and whether the Irish
Members were not well justified in the indignation and excite-
ment with which they met even the first hints at renewing
such an odious and unnecessary piece of cold-blooded tyranny.
—( Hear, hear, from the Irish Members.) A great portion of
the majority which sanctioned this measure last year had been
induced to lend their support solely by the solemn assurance
that something was without delay to be done to relieve the
Irish people from their overwhelming and deep-seated griev-
ances. A year had passed, but nothing had been done, not
appeared likely to be done, and be called upon those Members
who had been so deceived into supporting Ministers, now to
express their resentment, and what was a mere sentiment,
their feeling of sympathy with an injured nation, by opposing
every stage of this tyrannical measure. • He hires& would do
so for one, and he warned Ministers that if they pe,-sisted in
their attempts to pass this Bill, they would raise a spirit ilgainst
them in Ireland which would with resistless force hurl them,
and hurl them speedily and for ever, from their seats.—
(Cheers from the opposition benches.)
Mr. E. ELLICE must admit that the strong feeling of
excitement raised in the breasts of the Irish Members-by the
mention of this Bill, appeared to him in some degree justified
by circumstances.—( Hear, hear.) He could not, however,
see what object could be obtained by referring these papers to
a Select Committee, which would not be equally obtained by
having them printed and put into the hands of each Member,
and time being allowed for the due consideration of these im-
portant documents—most important lie might indeed call them
—for the whole case of Government consisted in the infor-
mation contained in their pages. When, therefore, these were
printed, and in the hands of every Member, the House would
at once, without any further delay, have the fullest opportu-
nity of considering whether the information they contained
was sufficient to justify them in supporting the Administration
in renewing the Bill of last year—or otherwise of making up
their minds to oppose the Bill. He was quite sure that in
every point of view the advantage of Ireland, of the country
at large, and of the House itself, would be much better con-
sulted by their taking these papers into consiaeration them-
selves, than by subjecting them to the delay and uncertainty
of a reference to a Select Committee.

Mr. HUME thought it strange that those who had so long
opposed a Tory Government should brills, forward such a mea-
sure as this, without at least a green'bag—( A laugh)—for
even the Tories had never brought in any measure interfering,
like this, with the liberties of the country, without bringing
down a green bag. Indeed, the only difference between this
measure and a Tory measure was, that there was no green
bag.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Even the Right. Hon.
Secretary himself, on a previous occasion, had failed in show-
ing any good grounds for renewing this measure. The
Whigs, on this occasion, were thus worse than the Tories,
for these had never committed any outrage, without
going through the specious form of an inquiry, whether
that inquiry were a mockery or not. This was not the
way for Ministers to vindicate their character, or free them-
selves from the charge of desiring to become despots—
of acting so as to drive the people of Ireland, he would not
say into rebellion—( Hear, hear,)—but into something very
like it. They had already spent a million of money on a
military establishment, for the purpose of keeping the Irish
,people in subjection, while they refused to do her justice. He
trusted the House would indignantly reject any renewal of this
measure. Noy was precisely the time for manifesting to Ire-
land, that having consented to the measure of last year, they
were even the more ready to redress tht'se grievances which
brought about that state of things which ha.d afforded grounds
for the measure of coercion. The first step towards exhibit-
ing this desire would be to allow these paper\; to be investi-
gated before a Select Committee, and to give the Hon. Mem-
ber for Meath ( Mr. Grattan) an opportunity for sui,stantiating
the declaration he had that night made. He entreated Mi-
nisters not to oppose the printing of these papers. He en-
treated them, because he knew from experience that four-fifths
of the House seemed prepared on all or any occasion to vote
"aye" or "no" at the nod of Ministers.
Mr. LITTLETON took occasion to observe, that the dis-
crepancy mentioned by the Hon. and Learned Member for
Meath as existing between the police reports and the number
of committals, did not authorise the conclusions he bad arrived
at; for (as we understood) the same discrepancy was common
to all the counties in Ireland.
Mr. O'RElLLY_said that in 1821-2, at a time when the
Insurrection Act was about to expire, a plan was got up in the
county of Cavan to create a disturbance, in order to afford an
excuse for calling out the yeomanry, and renewing the Act.
On that occasion Lord Wellesley (as we understood) had at
once agreed to renew it ; and the House, therefore, ought not
to lend too ready an ear to his Lordship now, as they were
taught by his conduct on this occasion that he was but too
ready, without due inquiry, to lend his sanction to this species
of legislation—a species of legislation which had proved but
very ineffectual. He was the more entitled to express his
opinion on this subject, as he had nothing to do with agitation
of any kind.—(Mr. O'Connell reminded the Hon. Gentleman
of one instance with reference to tithes, in which, as he said,
that Hon. Gentleman had mixed himself up with agitation.)
Yes, in one instance, as alluded to ; but here, where he had
done wrong, he had paid the penalty ; lie had not written
letters and left other persons to suffer for them.—( Hear, hear,
and a laugh.)
Mr. C. GRANT said that the renewal of the Insurrection
Act alluded to by the Hon. Member, took place after he-had
retired from office, and then he was no longer connected with
the administration in any way ; yet, repugnant upon principle
as lie was to such measures, on full consideration of the state-
ments laid before the House on that occasion, he had felt
himself called upon by the imperative necessity of the occa-
sion, to accede to a renewal of that Insurrection Act.—( Hear,
hear.) However regretting the necessity of putting into effect
this dreadful act, there were still exigencies more dreadful
which rendered it imperative upon the House to accede to
their enactment. As he had acted upon the occasion alluded
to, he trusted the House would act now ; all that Ministers
wanted, was to have these papers printed and laid before the
House ; then, if Honourable Members thought the informa-
tion insufficient to warrant them in supporting Ministers, it
would be competent in them to withhold it ; though he had no
doubt that the information would be considered sufficient.

Sir R. PEEL had voted for the Bill last year, on general
notoriety, and from a deep conviction that an indispensible ne-
cessity existed for its enactment—( Hear, hear)—and he should
vote for this motion because he felt that whatever was to be
done this session must be done quickly.—( Hear, hear.) If,
on this 7th July, this Select Committee were acceded to, to
render it effective it would be necessary to summon persons from
all parts of Ireland, and to institute an extensive inquiry, and
this would be tantamount, practically, to a rejection of the
Bill for this session—( Hear, hear)—and this was what he
could by no means consent to, being impressed with the full
and conscientious belief that some Bill of the sort, if not the
Bill itself, was necessary for the peace of Ireland.—(Hear,
hear.) But at the same time he must say that he thought
Government would much better have consulted their duty and
the interests of the nation, by having at a much earlier period
of the session given an intimation of their intention to renew
this very important Act.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition
Benches.) There was another reason for not referring this
matter to a Select Committee ; there were explanations abso-
lutely indispensable to be required from Government, which
would not be elicited if the subject were so referred.—('Loud
cheers from the opposition.) It was due to the House and
the country, that Ministers should not leave them in doubt as
to what the executive Ministers in Ireland thought on the sub-
ject.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He wished clearly
to understand whether the opinion of Lord Wellesley was de-
cidedly that the renewal of this measure was absolutely neces-
sary for the peace of Ireland, and the maintenance of the su-
premacy of the law ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) In an official letter
from his Lordship to Lord Melbourne, dated April 15, 1834,
his Lordship said, " Besides, disturbances have been in every
instance excited and inflamed by the agitation of the combined
projects for the abolition of tithes and the destruction of the
union with Great Britain.—( Hear.) I cannot employ words
of sufficient strength to express my solicitude that his Ma-
jesty's Government should fix the deepest attention on the
intimate connexion, marked by the strongest characters in all
these transactions, between the system of agitation and its ine-
vitable consequences—the system of combination leading to
violence and outrage—( Hear, hear)—they are inseparably
cause and effect. Nor can I (after the most attentive consi-
deration of the dreadful scenes passing under my view), by
any effort of my understanding, separate one from the other in
that unbroken chain of indissoluble connexion."—( Hear, hear. )
Now, if the dictionary had been searched through for expressions
calculated to convey a feeling of the fullest conviction, none
could be found stronger than those used by the Noble Lord
in this letter, to convey his opinion of the existence and inse-
parability of agitation and combination, and the necessity of
strong measures on the part of Government. He ( Sir R.
Peel) knew something of the Noble Lord, having had the
honour and advantage of acting with him in an official capa-
city, and he had never met with a man more careful in what
he said in his official communications ; and it was therefore the
more surprising to him (indeed he had never been more
I.ad quoted from,
3
sur-
prised in his life) that such a man, having, on the 15th of
April, written such a letter as the one he
should, on the 20th of June following, put his hand to such a
dispatch as had been forwarded on that day, containing sen-
timents so very different from those conveyed in the former
dispatch. (Hear, hear.) He felt more than surprised, for he
felt deep regret that a man who had acted with such decision
and consistency in India, should exhibit such indecision and
inconsistency in Ireland. It was therefore necessary to know
whether he abided by the sentiments of the first or those of the
second letter; and whether such a measure. as this was to be
thrust upon him as an unwilling agent-_( hear,
hear)—and if
that nobleman had changed his opinion on the inseparability of
political and predial agitation, the grounds on which he had so
of administering affairs in Ireland
altered his sentiments and whether he was prepared to un-
ypowers afforded him by this Act.—
nbalit
hear.)
responsibility
lie would repeat that Government had greatly
failed
.in their duty in not giving much earlier intimation Of
without the
itethiaieer
their intention to apply for a renewal of the Act.—( Hear,
i
hear.) Nor was t the least singular part of the affair that
the very first person to whom that intimation was made, and
this, too, privately, was the very person whom Ministers,
through his Majesty,lhad, on the very first day of the session,
almost perswally stigmatized as the originator and prune
mover of all the agitation which had rendered the Bill neces.

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eary.—( Immense cheering.) He (Sir R. Peel) was, on
most subjects, opposed to that Honourable and Learned
Gentleman, yet he had always considered the language
put into the King's mouth on this occasion, with re-
ference to that Honourable and Learned Member, as ex-
ceedingly derogatory to the kingly dignity and the cha-
racter of those who framed the speech from the Throne.—
(Loud cheers.) In that speech the indignation of his Majesty
was expressed at the attempts made by unprincipled agitators
to excite the people of Ireland to disturbance and disaffection,
and to attempt a repeal of the Union, " and the Hon.. and.
Learned Gentleman was, in terms as personal as de_
nottnced and held up to public reprobation as these
unprincipled agitators, whose attempts all loyal and well-dis-
posed persons were called upon in every way vigorously to
repress." This was the I:4nguage adopted towards the Hon.
and Learned Member. What, then, would all such " legal
and well-affected persons" think, when they found that on the
20th June the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was precisely the
person seleoted by a Minister of the Crown for a confidential
communication on this very subject ?—( Immense cheering.)
What must " loyal and well-disposed persons" think of this
extraordinary fact ?—( Hear.) What must the House think of
it ? And what must the Hon. and Learned Gentleman have
thought of it, when he found himself—he would not say the
misleading had been intentional—so misled as he had been in
that confidential communication ? They would think that this
was not the way for Ministers to secure cordial co-operation or
respect.—( Loud cheers.) As he had said before, however,
and for the reasons he had given, he should support the motion.
Mr. LITTLETON said that having, to the satisfaction of
the House, made his explanation on the last point alluded to
by the Hon. Baronet, he should not trouble them with any ob-
servations on that head.--( Hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet
had inveighed in strong terms against the Government, for
what he called their impolicy and neglect of duty, in having
so long delayed bringing the subject of a renewal of this Bill
before the House.—( Hear, hear.) In this view of the case he
greatly differed with the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear.) It
appeared to him that, so far from being blamed, Ministers were
entitled to credit for the course they had adopted, -of not pro-
posing a measure of this nature to the House till they had ab-
solutely found they could not dispense with a renewal of it,
and until they had provided the fullest estimates, and evidence
for the satisfaction of the House.—( Hear.) With reference
to the call which the Right Hon. Baronet had made upon them
for an explanation of the Lord Lieutenant's opinions on the
subject, all he could at present reply was, that such as the
Noble Lord's opinions were they were recorded in his dis-
patches ; and the expression of these opinions was very recent,
for they were contained in a dispatch received in the course of
last month ; he did not think himself warranted to detail those
opinions, but they were generally in favour of a renewal of the
measure in the shape proposed by the other House.
Mr. SHE IL said that something must have happened be-
tween the 18th of April and the 20th of June. The question
was this : did the Lord Lieutenant change his mind ? They
-relied on the dispatches of the Lord Lieutenant for coercion.—
( Hear, hear, hear !) He changed his mind ; they had not got
all the truth.—( Hear, hear.) Did his Majesty's Ministers, or
did they not, keep back documents ? Part of the data relied
on was in writing before the House ; part of it consisted in an
oral admission, to the effect that the Lord Lieutenant had un-
dergone a complete change of opinion. Was this true, or was
it not? If it were not true, the Right Hon. Gentleman
must be egregiously mistaken—he would never attribute to
him any thing more than mistake—as to the opinion of the
Lord Lieutenant. Was there any doubt on the subject ? Let
them have the letters.—( Hear, hear, hear.) What ! was it
too late for them to have a full and complete investigation of
the grounds on which they would impose a measure on Ireland,
which they admitted was unconstitutional ?—( Hear, hear,
hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman, with such im-
perfect evidence before them, told them that because it was
the 7th of July, a complete inquiry was not to be instituted.—
( Hear, hear.) First, he taxed the Government with not
having made up their minds earlier. They had the dispatch
before them as early as the 18th of April. They had been
asked again and again what their intentions were. They had
been asked in another place. The Honourable and Learned
Member for D abiin had put the question frequently.
Time, then, ;vas allowed the Government. The result
was, that tie Government were to be allowed all the
benefit of the procrastination, and in the spirit of haste
—in the. spirit (he did not wish to use harsh terms) of
rash precipitation—they were about to proceed with a mea-
sure., the consequences of which could not be foreseen.
Mr. LITTLETON said the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
seemed to insist on the evidence of the letters of the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland, that his Lordship intended to recom-
mend the re-enactment of the courtmartial clause, as well as
the other clauses of the Bill. The fact was, however, that ,
the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had not excepted the court- 1
martial clause, from the circumstance of his not having con-
sidered it practically and essentially a part of the measure.
The reason of this was, that the clause in question had never
been acted on.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL—And was Ireland, then to be deprived
of her constitutional liberties, on the opinion of a man who did
not consider such a clause as a courtmartial clause essential ?--
( Hear, hear.) The courtmartial clause—oh ! he never
thought of it. Yet this was the man who was to legislate
for Ireland—this was the man whose opinion was to be deci-
sive of this case.—( Cheers, and cries of " No, no.") The
Lord Lieutenant called for the bill—the whole bill, over and
over again, without having once disturbed his semi-regal
head, with any consideration about the clause subjecting Ire-
land to martial law. Where was the correspondence, subse-
quent to the 18th of April ? They resisted his motion, on
the ground that there was not time. They had not time to
do justice to Ireland. It was immaterial how late it was when
their object was to pass laws to suspend the constitution of
that country the representatives of a reform constituency
were ready, however late in the session, to give their time and
their votes to pass a Bill of Coercion, but they would not allow
that there was time to inquire into the necessity for such a Bill.
What became now of the six hours' speech against the repeal
of the Union ?—(" Hear, hear," from the Irish Members. )
One fact told the Irish people that they would be the basest
of slaves if they, under such circumstances, tamely submitted
to the continuance of the Union. Let them hear no more
drivelling about repeal ; let them hear no more of their pounds,
shillings, and pence calculations ; let them be presented with
no more fabricated returns, speciously arranged in formidable
columns of figures ; let them be troubled with no more of
these things, for if they were he would set up one solitary fact
against them all. Never had any country been so cursed as
Ireland had been cursed by England for the last seven hun-
dred years. They boasted of the courage and resources of
this country ; but they would not dare go to war.—( Loud
cries of " Hear," from the Irish Members.) They were in
the power of Europe while they kept Ireland in this way.
Did they expect that, whatever their measures, no man would
-be found to tell Ireland that she ought not to be so governed ?
They were informed on the 20th of June that there was to be
no Coercion Bill—that the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland was
against it—that the Secretary for Ireland did not consider it
necessary : they heard also that in the Cabinet, counting the
Members one by one in their individual capacity, there was a
majority opposed to the re-enactment ; yet, because the Pre-
mier was in its favour—because it was his pleasure, and he
must be humbled to—because they preferred their places to
their principles—( Cheers from the Irish Members)—they
were to be involved in all sorts of disputes and difficul-
ties, and coercion was to continue to be the measure of
justice awarded to his suffering country.—( Hear, hear.)
They had heard not a little of the manliness of the character of
the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. His manliness ! Why, he
.disdained describing it. He had seen him (said Mr. O'Con-
, nell, with a peculiar emphasis which excited a laugh, and cries
of " Hear" from one of the Irish gentlemen)—he had seen
him at a levee. Oh, it was too bad to have the liberties of
Ireland placed at the mercy of a will-o'th'-whisp of that descrip-
tion. It might have been that the Hon. and Learned Member
for Edinburgh would not have been seen in his place if the
courtmartial clause had been retained ; it might have been
that the Hon. and Learned Member for Kircudbright would
.not have been in his place either under such circumstances.
Thus the clause had been given up by the miserable truckling
of one part of the Administration to another, that the Act might
be retained. Where would the Hon. and Learned Member for
Edinburgh have been if the intended conduct of Ministers
had been known at the late election ? Probably the scene at
Dudley would have been re-enacted-4 Hear, hears) There
were 100 Irishmen in Edinburgh-100 Irish voters.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL.--They all voted against
me.—( Much laughter and cheering.)

Mr. 0' CONN EL L. —And it served you right. —( Renewed
laughter, and cheers.) They voted against the prosecution of
the True Sun—( Laughter, and cries of oh")—and
against one of the advisers of the Crown, when the former
Coercion Bill was introduced. Mr. O'Connell continued to
say that he did not doubt there were many honest Scotchmen,
who, if they had known the designs of Government, would
also have voted against the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.
But it was hard to believe that Ministers would be persuaded
to take such a course, at the suggestion of such a Polonius of
a Lord Lieutenant. He (Mr. O'Connell) placed a firm re-
liance on a considerable part of the people of Ireland. He
trusted that they would wait their time—that they would see
the necessity of insisting on a repeal of the Union, when they
saw that they got all the evils of the Union and none of its
blessings. He was happy to say that the Hon. Gentleman
who offered himself as a candidate for the representation of
Wexford had not been lost to the repealers, though he was
not exceedingly popular.—( Hear, hear, and laughter from the
Ministerial side of the House.) He had carried his election
triumphantly, and if not with the assistance of himself and.
friends, certainly not with their disapprobation, or with that ,)f
any other portion of his countrymen who were beginning to
dislike the present Government more than their former ri:Jers.
_(A laugh.) Whatever course they pursued he felt co'.tfident
of this, that they would not be able to crush the spirit of, liberty
in Ireland.
Mr. LITTLETON said that the Hon. and Le.arned Gen-
tleman was mistaken when he supposed him to have repre-
sented that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland considered the
establishment of courtsmartial a matter of no importance.
All he said was, that his Excellency had not considered the
renewal of that clause of any importance, it not having been
brought into operation.—( Hear. )
Mr. O'CONNELL neither misrepresented nor mistook the
Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. ABERcROMBY said the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman had represented that this clause had been omitted, in
order to enable the Hon. Member for Kirkcudbright and him-
self to take office. Now, without disclosing any thing that
he ought not to disclose, he might say that it never was pro-
posed to him to consider the Bill with reference to this clause.
On the contrary, he was given to understand that the clause
had been abandoned by his Majesty's Government before his
accession to office. Nor did it appear to him that his Right
Hon. Friend had said any thing warranting the inference
that the Marquis Wellecley did not consider the elate..

important ; he had only said that the Noble Marquis did
not consider it important to preseite the clause ; in other
words, that he did not hold It necessary to the
.peace of
Ireland. The Marquis Wellesley's letter certainly ex-
pressed a distinct opinion. The case was neither more nor
less than this. The Right lion. Secretary for Ireland, actin.-
on considerations which appeared to him sufficient, engaged in
a private correspondence with the NOble Marquis, with respect
to other clauses in th 'O4 t and he believed the Noble Lord's
opinion tnem was in conformity with that expressed in the
setter. if the Marquis Wellesley had officially declared a
contrary opinion, that would be sufficient to justify the demand
for an inquiry by that House, but he denied that any such
statement had appeared. As to the delay that had taken
place, he must confess that he did think it a prudent
course, and above all, just to the people of Ireland, that the
measure should not be brought before Parliament as long as
a rational hope could be entertained that it might not be ne-
cessary to propose such a measure again.—( Hear, hear. )
Every well wisher of Ireland must have desired that the Bill
should not again pass into a law, because they must have
wished that it was not necessary. If the House thought the
Bill not called for, let them reject it, but not by the side-wind
of a Committee, which would lead to an inquiry into the private
character of all those who had given information to the Go-
vernment on this occasion-4 Cries of " Divide.")
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, if they wanted proof of the
necessity of the political clauses in the Bill, he would refer to
the tone in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had ad-
dressed the House this night, and he would then ask what
would be their security if they abandoned the clauses, that
sooner or later attempts would not be made to produce a se-
paration between the two countries ? He begged to remind
the House of what the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was
himself disposed to agree to last session. He then said that
he would not object that the peasantry of Ireland should be
compelled in certain districts to remain in their houses after
sun-set, and answer to their names when called upon to do so.
Now this in itself was a great infringement of the liberties of
the subject, and they were not adding anything really to that
infringement when they say that persons should not be at li-
berty to excite them, by every kind of appeal to their passions
and ignorance, to acts of outrage and crime. He for one was
not disposed to propose a Bill which should strike at the lower
classes of the people, and which would not operate as any check
whatever on those more influential individuals who exercised all
their powers to excite the lower classes to outrage. With
respect to the law itself there was plenty of time to discuss
it. As to the Committee to inquire whether the accounts
they had received of the prevalence of predial outrage were
well founded, he thought it could not be considered neces-
sary. The Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin himself
had not questioned the extent of predial outrages, and he
had even declared that some measure was required to suppress
them. Now, could he consider a Committee demanded as re-
garded the political bearing of this question ? If they wanted
to satisfy themselves as to the existence of political agitation,
they might refer to what had taken place in Dublin and else-
where—they might refer also to the tone of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman in various publications of his.--( Hear.)
He rejoiced in the success of the repeal candidate for Wex-
ford, because it took from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
the only ground he had of complaint against his Right Hon.
Friend.—( Cries of " No, no.") The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had said that the repeal candidate had suffered at
his election, in consequence of the statement of his Right
Hon. Friend, but this turned out not to be the fact.

Mr. O'CONNELL complained that the Noble Lord mis-
represented him, when he said that he had given his consent
to the peasantry being kept in their houses. He did consent
that no man should be allowed to go out of his house after a
certain hour, in a disturbed district, without being able to give
a legitimate confining reason for his absence, but was that the
people to their houses? The two things were essentiallydifferent.
He repeated that the effect of his proposition was to give people
the right of leaving their houses when they had lawful occasion.
Lord STORMONT should not be satisfied without a
straightforward answer from the Government, as to a point
with respect to which they had swerved—he alluded to what
the opinions of Lord Wellesley were on the 20th of June.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Edinburgh had stated
what the opinions of the Noble Lord were on the 18th April ;
on the 18th April they were precisely similar : but the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, had stated to the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, that on the 20th of
June the opinions of the Marquis of Wellesley were against
the renewal of the Bill. Now, he wished to know, for the
sake of the reputation of the Government—( Laughter)—this
might be a matter of ridicule with those Hon. Gentlemen who
did not care what the reputation of the Government was—
( Hear, hear)—but the reputation of the' Government was im-
portant to those who valued their country.—( Hear.) He re-
peated, then, that for the sake of the reputation of the Govern-
ment,. they ought to know what it was that induced Lord
Wellesley to change his opinions.
Mr. ROBINSON said they were asked to suspend the
constitution of Ireland on the mere confidence they entertained
in his Majesty's Government. He confessed that it would be
inconvenient to go into a Committee ; but that was neither the
fault of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, nor of any
other Hon. Member. He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
ought to produce the correspondence.
Lord A LT HO RP rose, but was at first quite inaudible,and
even when heard not clearly intelligible. We understood him
to say, in reply to the question put to him by the Noble Lord
( Stormont) as to whether it was the opinion of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland that the Bill ought to be renewed, that
the communication which had taken place on this subject, be-
tween the Right lion. the Secretary for Ireland and the
Noble Marquis had been carried on by letters. Some of these
letters were of a private character, but even from a perusal of
the entire correspondence it would be very difficult to say de-
cidedly what was or what was not the opinion of the Noble
Marquis. The correspondence (as we understood the Noble
Lord) was such that any two persons holding the opposite opi-
nions might construe them as supporting either. The Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Worcester argued that every com-
munication of this nature should be submitted to public inves-
tigation. In reply to this he would only say that if such a
doctrine was insisted on, and if every private communication
was to be laid upon the table of that House, the business of
Government could not be proceeded with.
Sir ROBERT PEEL thought that even in justice to the
Noble Marquis (Wellesley) the production of the letters was
imperatively called for. With regard to their being private
letters, it was difficult to say, from the specimens which he had
seen, what letters were private and what official. There had
been letters produced before the House the official character
of which was very doubtful.—( Here the Right Hon. Baronet
read extracts from and conclusions of letters couched in a very
free and familiar style.)
Mr. ELLICE replied that these were published by the con-
sent of the parties.
Sir R. PEEL—That is quite "satisfactory.--( Cheers.)
Why was not the letter of the 18th of April laid before the
House—that letter, by which it appeared directions were
given to bring forward a measure calculated to meet and sup-
press agrarian disturbances ? Let the Marquis Wellesley
be referred to, and let his permission be asked to make them
public ?—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. ELLICE, as a justification for the publicity given to
the other letters alluded to, again repeated the permission
which he had received from the writers of them.
Sir G. MURRAY said that the more this subject was
argued the more necessary the called-for inquiry appeared.
If Scotland, instead. of Ireland, was the country likely to be
affected by the contemplated measure, and that the docu-
ments thus called for were not produced, he certainly should
not agree to vote for the measure.---( Vehement cheering from
the Irish Members.) The announcement made by the Right
Hon. Gentleman to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin
had placed the House in a predicament, by deferring the call
forinquiry until it was too late in the session to obtain in-
formation.--( Hear, hear, hear.) He found himself, there-
fore, under the necessity of following the example of
his Right Honourable Friend the Member for Tam-
worth, as, if he voted for the inquiry, he felt it would be im-
possible to renew the measure before the expiration of the ses-
sion.—( Hear, hear, and Oh, oh, oh !) But at the same
time he would reserve to himself the power of opposing any
portion of the Bill which he thought not necessary, or which
was uncalled for by circumstances.
Mr. O'DWYE R thought it very strange that the Hon.
Baronet who had just sat down would justify, by his vote, that
which he showed by his speech was most unjustifiable—
( Cheers.) An Hon. Member in that House avowed that he
supported a measure of coercion for Ireland, which, under si-
milar circumstances, he would firmly oppose if about to be ex-
tended to Scotland—( Hear, hear)—and a Noble Lord in the
other House insisted that the measure was brought forward to
suppress the discussion of repeal. This was a most mistaken
notion indeed, and they calculated very unwisely on human
nature who imagined that Irishmen would fall in love with
English legislation, knowing it only through acts of injustice
and oppression.
Mr. GILL ON would only ask the Right Hon. Baronet
( Sir G. Murray) whether, in a matter of so much importance,
it would be too much to ask from that House even a month of
investigation? He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would
re-consider his determination.
Mr. D. R 0 NA YNE insisted on the necessity of inquiry.
Mr. T. L E FRO Y concurred in the necessity of adopting
the Coercion Bill, but at the same time agreed in all that had
fall-en from the Right Bon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) with regard
tcs his Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. RUTH VEN was perfectly satisfied that the Coercion
Bill was brought forward by the Whigs to conciliate the To-
ries, whose support to some of their measures they thus hoped
to insure.

An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn
(amidst loud cries of question), pronounced the measure of
coercion most wanton and uncalled for.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
Ayes 157
Noes 73
Majority for Ministers —B4
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. O'CONNELL giving notice that he would, on Wed-
nesday next, move for so much of the correspondence of the
Marquis Wellesley as related to the opinion entertained by
that nobleman on the 20th of June last with regard to the
Coercion Bill.

AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
The Marquis of CHANDOS then rose to move his re-
solution with regard to the distressed state of the agricultu-
ral interest. The question, he said, was a most important
one, and the small majority which he found against him on the last occasion of his bringing it forward justified him in
again renewing it. The session ought not to pass by with-
out
the adoption of some measure for the relief of the agri-
cultural interest. The Noble Lord (Althorp) had stated
that he expected considerable benefit would arise to the farm-
ers from two bills which he proposed to introduce.—the Poor
Laos Amendment Bill, and that for the Commutation of