The Sun.
London, England, 1834-12-22 00:00:00

imong Wil44 *hitti• and John Wilson. The
sabiect interwards became of general conversation.
Mel-mond was generally understood to have acted all *roper
part in the course of a few months after the-arrestei Does
not think that 1Y11!Oli COttlfininteated this infortniition to any
of the pithlid.printk %lea vas at that tittil,niln-},Ate with
all the pifeleil tritit the
Cti.Voio Chronicle were imputed to Wilson. Wilson and
White never believed that the conversation had taken place
between deponent and plaintiff, till a lad from the artillery
came to Glascew, and told the style in which plaintiff was
tietielledte that &e:idediy plaiiiM ailed dttptsnent
tO Use his influence to get the people organized, and cannot
say why Wilson in his letters did not allude to the conversation.
It was generally known after a time that deponent had been
tampered with. In 1824, or perhaps 1825, the editor of the
Cheftfek tit Id fetitidAt depdiidnt to ttZedtint of
the conversation. The person who was sent to him was
a Mr. M.Deugall, a reporter. In Glasgow deponent
was called upon by Mr. ill`Kenzie, and told that he would
be summoned as a witness in this case, but never had seen
M`Kettle before; Tierce react M'Nenzie.'s publication. Re-
collects hearing of a publieation celled " The Spy system,"
saw only the first No., and read but a small portion of it. De-
ponent's name was introduced in that number. The statements
contained therein were pretty nearly correct. Deponent, on
his oath, states that the full import and meaning of the diffe-
fent ConVersationt are contained in the deposition. Heard of a
commission in this (-muse lately held in Scotland, but was not
called to giee evidence. Nem' Was in London before. Has
received no payment, yet expects to be paid. Lives in Fleet-
street. Came to town with three other witnesses, Stuart
Buchanan, Robert Craig, and Win. Wotherepoon. Received
a summons to attend; was told he was cosnpelled. Saw Mr.
Tait when he came to London: Mr. Tait asked for his
health, Sew Mr. Tait in Glasgow. Was told he would
have to come to London on this CASE!.
Re-examined by Mr. PLATT.-Recognised the letters al-
luderfto in the evidence as having been written by. Wilson
and Richmond, and the publication called "An Exposure of
the Spy- system." Thinks he had an extensive influence with
the weavers in 1816, and that if he had listened to Mr. Rich-
mond's proposition he might have induced others to follow his
example. Earned then out 258. a week. • Hid to maintain
a wife and five children, which he did with difficulty, owing to
the state of the markets.
"By a Juryman—No one was present when the conversation
between deponent and the plaintiff touk place.
Stuart Buchanan (examined by Serjeant Taisototo.)—ls
an engine keeper at the Adelphi Foundry, Glasgow. In the
year 1816 was a weaver. Knew the plaintiff in the year 1812,_
and he was then a weaver. Plaintiff. lived in Glasgow in
1816, and was then an agent. His wife and family were 'in a
state of starvation in the latter end of the year 1816. Plaintiff
was in the habit of going about making speeches to people at
public houses. Recollects the great Glasgow Reform meeting
in the year 1816. Plaintiff was 'speaking to witness after the
-meeting, and regretted that he had not spoken from -the
hustings. Had a conversation with plaintiff in the month of
December in that year, when plaintiff intimated to him that
there was such a thing as a secret association in Glasgow for
the purpose of overthrowing Gpvernment, and that as soon as
a competent number of the working classes had joined,. he
(plaintiff) was backed by the best gentlemen in the land with
plenty of means to support the case. lie spoke to witness on
the subject frequently during that month. Met plaintiff in
January following with a young man named Ferguson.
Plaintiff had then a slip iof papc r in his hand about six inches
square, which he concealed, and he remarked to Ferguson that
he might not be afraid of witness, -for he knew his senti-
ments. The paper, which was read by Mr. Rich-
mond, contained the feral of An oath and bond of Union, by
which they were bound to resist the Government, morally and
physically, as far as was in their power. %Vitnesa locked at
it, and then plaintiff put it in his pocket. Plaintiff urged the
witness to take the oath, as nothing would save the country
but the working elaesesl,cing beend by that oath, and that he
was supported by the 'hest gentlemen in the land. Witness
ngreed to take the oath, and'Perguson proposed to take him
to a place that night, where he should take it; Ferguson
called that evening about eight o'clock, and witness went with
him to a school-room in- Tureen-street, where he met two
others, M`Lachien and M'Kinley. Witness there took the
alb, which was administered by M'Kinley. It was the same
oath as was read to him in the morning, and as is stated in
Mr. Richmond's book. Saw Richmond next morning, who
asked witness if he be had done what he had promised. Wit-
feplied, " Yes ; " and Richmond said, " Well, that's
right." As soon as a competent number joins us, we will bring
the villains to their senses." M'Kinley was the same person
who was afterwards tried and acquitted. Witness saw Richmond
daily allerttatil) and cepressed regret at having taken the
oath, saying that he feared there were some Whideors amongst
them.---[Windsor was the person who gave evidence against
Despard.] Richmond said he did not fear, as he had plenty of
means, and teat gupperted by the best gentlemen in the land.
Witness lived and worked in the same house With Richmond,
and in consequence of a man calling to look for Richmond,
witness had some distruit of him. Richmond asked witness
if he had not heard that he was a spy, and witness replied that
he had. Richmond protested he was innocent, went up stairs,
and brought doivii a number 0f bait cartridges, Ointa, and a
turnscrew, and gave them to,witness, saying that they would
suit him, as he (Richmond), was provided othYwise. Richmond
said nothing but the point of the bayonet would do to overturn the
government, and that drill§ wtinlEl be provided for them by-and-
by. in the month of February John Namithiold him that the
parties bad been apprehended. Witness went with Nesmith
to Richmond, and when Nat-midi told him that the committee
had been taken in the tack Wynd, witness heard .111Chmond
Cry out, " All's discovered. I WTI done." The walls of
Glasgow were then chalked with " Beware of Richte;ll4 the
Spy," and Richmond shortly efterwaedi left
.GliagelV.
Cross-examined by Mr. Riehmonit,,,WitneSs IS fiii* .43
years' old, and resides still in Glaseetirt Witßii hag Aeeii
Mr. Richmond before last Saturday hundreds of times. Wit
ness worked in different places in Giat.toi*ii iiten_
placetiene vid,iftrh mr.
from 1812 to 1810, When WZiit to work in the same
Rieltret4, who had then got a man to put out
hiswork,n.agnd itAtt '4 et up for an agent. Witness saw a good deal of
the
rage
sing poverty Bta distress of Richmond's family-, his WIN We i 1 li►dHt
.4
brokea.k.earted creature and the children were going about in
for victuals. They always appeared to be in dis:
tr`:.:ss both before and after Richmond gave tip the
Was not intoxicated in a public-house in Glasgow kept by
Mr. Baird within the last six weeks, nor has not been intoxi-
cated at all within that period. Recollects the time the cem-
mittee was arrested in 1817. Witness was not arrested, nor
was Ferguson. The oath bound them to be ready whenever
they were called out.. Saw M'Kinley after he had been
tried, who gave the Judge and lawyers great credit for the way
they had defended him. Witness thinks he was very kindly
dealt with in not having been arrested. Richmond was the
man witness alluded to when he said he feared there were
some Windsors among them, because Richmond was advising -
his neighbours to enrol themselves, while he kept himself aloof.
Witness swears positively that he saw the paper containing the
oath in Richmond's hands. Had often heard RichMond speak .
about the Union previous to that day. Witness never .had"
any conversation with Ferguson till the morning Richmond
read the oath to him. The oath was administered to witness
in the Scotch form by M'Kinley. The oath which witnes
afterwards read in Richmond's book was the same, as far as
his memory served him. They had a sign to recognize one
another, by drawing the hand over the face, and gripping the
left ear. M'Kinley was well acquainted with Richmond, and
saw them frequently speaking together. Nevereknew of
Richmond being engaged in any particular business but
politics. Witness was called upon by Peter M'Kenzie,
to know if he knew anything about the years 1818 Alfd 1817.
and witness stated what he knew. That was in the beginning
of the present year; and M'Kenzie then told him he would be
brought to London, .and that his wages and expenses would be
paid. Some money was given to him to- support his family
during his absence. Witness was not called 'upon to attend
the Commission which sat in Glasgow. Ile never told Baird
or his wife that what he had said about Richmond having the
oath in his possession was a falsehood. Does not know any
public-house keeper of the name of Baird. M'Kenzie came
up with witness to London. Saw Mr. Tait after his arrival,
but was not addressed to him like a green-bag parcel.--
( Laughter.) Witness knew only the three persons who were
present who had taken the oath

Re-examined by Sedeant TALFOURD.—Believes the reason
witness and Ferguson were not arrested was because they knew
too much of. Richmond's private affairs.
By a Juror—None Qf Richmond's acquaintances were
arrested at the time the Committee were arrested, in Fe-
bruary, 1817.
Robert Craig (examined by Mr. PLATT)--Is a weaver re-
siding near Glasgow. Recollects the public meetings in the
year 1816, and attended some of them. Met Richmond in
the beginning of December in that year, after the Thrusgrove
meeting, in the Trongate of Glasgow. Richmond laid his
hand on witness's shoulder, and asked was that Craig. lie
then inquired if witness was in the habit of attending the
public meetings then holding, to petition for parochial aid
and Parliamentary Reform ; and witness having answered in
the affirmative, Richmond said, " What a d—d fool you are ;
don't you know something more efficient should be done."
They then adjourned to the Elliot Tavern and had some refresh-
ment, and the conversation was resumed. Richmond said
was witness not aware that something of a more efficient kind
than public meetings were then in operation. Witness said he
was not, and then Richmond told him there was, and that se-
veral respectable persons, naming Messrs. Finley, Jeffreys,
and Cockburn, wen; determined to assist. Richmond further
said if witness wished it, and would call upon him. h a would
introduce him. Met witness afterwards in Bell-street, and
Brown and another person were with him. Richmond left hi
companions and went up to witness, and asked if he bad come
to any decision upon the subject they had been speaking upon.
Witness said he had net, and Richmond said he was a—fool, as
the matter was in high operation, and he would seriously ad..
vise him to take an active part in it, and begged he would call
on him the following day. That the members were increasing,
and the persons at the head of it were highly respect-
able. He said, also, that the numbers were 100,000.
Witness said he would think about it, but never called upon
him. Heard of M‘Kinley and the others being arrested, and
afterwards saw the walls of Glasgow chalked with " Richmond
the Spy."
Cross-examined by Mr. Richmond.—. Can't tell how long
it is since he first mentioned these circumstances. Is living at
Park-head, near Glasgow, and can earn from 6s. to 7s. a
ereelt. Did not see Richmond from 181.; till 1820 or 182'1,
when he saw him at the Trongate, in Glasgow. The country
was pretty tranquil in 1816, except that a good deal of distress
existed among the working classes, and public meetings were
held. A public subscription had then been set on foot to
relieve the distress, which was then very severe. The con-
versations with Richmond in 1816 related to the meetings and
petitions which Richmond thought were d--d nonsense.
Witness was a delegate of the weavers, and was an ad-