The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-30 00:00:00

public trust funds every independent minded I
and intelligent inhabitant,whose force and purity
of character the close corporators know will in-
terfere with their schemes. Can it be believed
that the electors of Liverpool are unable to find
public men among themselves able and willing
to represent them, and with a superior know-
ledge of their vast trading commercial and
political interests than such a pseudo " Con-
servative" as Lord SANDON ? Can the
borough, which, under its present imperfect
constituency, once returned a ROSCOE, and
in 1831 rejected a GASCOIGNE, be ade-
quately or independently represented by a
young University Nobleman like Lord SAN
-
DON, whose practical knowledge of business
must be as limited as his political opinions are
" wavering?" But the Liverpool Corporation and
the local election Oligarchy, who have hitherto
' reigned dominant, must now see signs of the
early destruction of their political monopoly.
Mr. BENETT last night gave notice of a " Bill
to prevent bribery, and other corrupt practices
in the elections of representatives to serve in
Parliament, and in the elections of Mayors and
all other municipal officers, for the borough and
town of Liverpool, by disfranchising the Bur-
gesses, and by adopting such other measures as
may be deemed necessary." Next session this
Bill must become law ; and though the Liverpool
corporators and Conservatives may put their trust
in Tory Peers, we may assure them that they
will be deceived, and that the Bills for
extirpating the corruption of Warwick, Hert-
ford, Carrickfergus, and Liverpool, and for
utterly blotting out Stafford, will pass the ordeal
of the House of Lords. The Commons have
now the power of insuring the freedom and
purity of election, whatever may be the present
opposition of the other branch of the Legisla-
ture. The Liverpool Report will he hereafter
ranked as second only, in its integrity, to that
of Warwick.

The liberty of the Press was last night vindi-
cated in a proud and constitutional spirit by the
House of Commons o❑ Mr. O'CONNELL'S mo-
tion to bring the printer and proprietors of the
Times to the bar of the House. That motion
was met by an amendment to discharge the
order which was carried by a majority of more
than three to one-153 being against Mr.
O'CoNNELL's motion, and only 48—barely
the number of his tail, in its favour. After this
manifestation of public feeling, one would sup-
pose that Mr. O'CoNNELL would have quietly
submitted to the decision of the House, but the
Champion of Ireland's wrongs was made of
sterner stuff, and proved by his subsequent
conduct, in happy unison with his previous
proceedings, that even though vanquished he
could argue still—and accordingly he availed
himself of his privilege to have the gallery
cleared for the remainder of the evening.
But the game is not to end here, for Mr.
ROBINSON, the Member for Worcester, gave
notice that he would this evening move the
suspension of the standing order which en-
ables any Member, on noticing that there
are strangers in the house, to clear the
gallery not only of strangers, but of the Re-
porters also. The result of this motion will,
we trust, settle the question in future, in the
only way in which it ought to be settled—open-
ing the gallery to the public, who have the
greatest interest in the proceedings of the House.
The speeches of Mr. METHUEN, Mr. Ro-
BINSON, Sir ROBERT INGLIS, Mr. HARVEY,
Sir ROBERT PEEL, and others, are so interest-

ing, and so honourable to their candour anti
public spirit, that we shall not enlarge upon
their merits here, but simply refer our readers to
the report itself.

It appears by the report of the Parliamentary
proceedings, this morning, that Mr. O'CoN-
NELL had some intention of clearing the gallery
again ; but, upon second thoughts, he aban-
doned his exclusive rights. Should the Learned
Gentleman succeed in carrying the repeal of the
Union,what will become of the freedom of debate
in the Emerald Isle ? As for the Reporters—
why, they would dwindle away like the Kil-
kenny Cats, leaving the " Liberator" and his
tail all alone in their glory

Accounts from Warsaw speak of another
Russian manifesto or declaration having been
issued, in which the Emperor, after duly expa-
tiating, as usual, on the amazing forbearance he
has exhibited towards the Poles, both before
and since the revolution—how, throughout
his proceedings, he has tempered justice with
mercy, and resisted all the suggestions of re-
venge,—after a preliminary, methodistical flou-
rish of this sort, the Imperial Manifesto goes
on to summons some 200 and odd malefactors
to the bar of the Supreme Court at Warsaw,
on pain of confiscation of their estates,
and being put without the pale of the law.
The whole edict is a disgusting compound of
meanness, mendacity, treachery, and downright
unblushing hypocrisy. From this we infer that
it is the express production of time CZAR himself
—an emanation of his own bright intellect, and
justifying in every sentence CoNyPER's apt re.
mark that
" Seldom, alas! the power of wisdom reigns
With much sufficiency in royal brains."

DEATH of WILLIAM WILBERFORCE, Esq

It is this day our melancholy duty to announce the
death of William Wilberforce, a name with which there is
probably associated more of love and veneration than ever
fell to the IA of any single individual throughout the civi-
lized globe.
At one period the sad event would have been felt as a
grievous national calamity, and even now the tidings of his
departure will be heard with the deepest sorrow through
every part of the empire. But he worked while it was
called day, remembering that the night was coming
wherein no man may work. And he was not permitted
to leave the scene of his labours till he beheld the great
cause to which he hail dedicated all the energies of his
soul triumphant, and the fetters of the negro about to be
struck off fur ever. His warfare is accomplished ; his
course is finished ;he kept the faith. Those who regard
him merely as a philanthropist, in the worldly sense of that
abused term, know but little of his character. His phi-
lanthropy took its origin in love to God ; it was kindled at
the sacred fire of divine love, and it burned with such
bright and steady lustre, only because it was daily reple-
nished from its hallowed source.
The sad event took place last night at the house of Mr.
Smith, in Cadogan-place. Mr. Wilberforce was in the
74th year of his age. We Must reserve all particulars for
our next. We understand Mr. Wilberforce has directed
in his will that his funeral should be conducted without
the smallest pomp, and that his body should be interred in
the family vault of his brother-in•law in the churchyard of
Stoke Newington, pursuant to a promise made to the late
Mr. Stephen.—Record of ye-terday.

Either Lord GLENGALL or the reporters
hive fallen into an amusing error in stating that " Lord
KENYON, Lord WY NFORD, an I Lord ELDoN, the
three great law Lards, were opposed to Mr. ButwEß's
Dramatic Bill." There was a Lord KENYON who was
a great law Lord, but talents are not hereditary.

The defeat of Ministers in the House of
Lords on Thursday night is said to have been purely se-
cidentil, Lords Ar.va.m.y, BELHAVEN, and one more,
having come down to the House a few minutes too late
for the division. These three ivotes would have given a
majority of one to Ministers.

NI PERLA LPARLIAM ENT

THIS DAY, TUESDAY, JULY 30.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The gallery was this morning opened at about the usual
time, and no objection was made to the presence of strangers.
There were about sixty Members in the House on our enter.
ing the gallery, among whom the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin appeared soon after the business of the day had
commenced.
The House went immediately into Committee on the Slavery
Abolition Bill.
Mr. STANLEY moved the reading of the 25th clause.
The CHAIRMAN said the question was as to the inser-
tion of the sum of twenty millions in the blank left for the
purpose of having the amount determined by the House.
Sir EARDLEY WILMOT said that he was not actuated
by any party feelings in the view he took of this question ; but
he was decided in his determination to move an amendment in
accordance with the notice he had given. He should oppose
the grant of twenty millions on two grounds, the first that the
covenant entered into for the immediate abolition of slavery
had not been kept; and the second was that the additional five
millions proposed to be given to purchase the concurrence of
the West India interests, could not be asked for on that ground,
as their concurrence had not been obtained. He could not,
with respect to the first of these objections, admit the argu-
ment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, who, at
the commencement of the debate on that subject, had said that
he was for " a conditional liberty, and if the slaves would not
work, let them perish." Such an observation might be very well
if applied to England ; it might do very well for a man pos-
sessed of such strength of mind as well as of body, as the Hon.
and Learned Member, but it was inapplicable to the condition
of a slave, who, it should be remembered, was called upon by 7
years' labour to attain that to which he was indisputably enti-
tled before the term commenced. There was no parity in the
two cases. In this country an apprenticeship might lead, as it
often had led, to the highest office of civic honour—to the
Lord Mayor's chair—or even to a seat in that Hon. House.—
(Hear, hear.) On his second objection lie should say, without
fear of contradiction, that the West India interest was con-
clusively against giving their concurrence to the measure.
He believed he might say that two-thirds were against it, and
if that were true, it proved that the consent of that interest
had not been obtained. He thought, however, there was a
third party whose interests had been neglected, and that was
the people of England.—(Hear.) He did not wish to paint the
distresses in this country in unnecessary high colours, but he
knew that great distress did prevail. Within a very few miles
of his residence, there were many thousand persons (he al-
luded to the ribbon weavers) who, when they got up in the
morning, knew not where they would lie down at night. In
one parish near Coventry there were three hundred families,
consisting of one thousand persons, whose earnings did not
average 21(1. per day. He therefore thought it but justice
ti ask for one corner of the sympathy of the House
for our own countrymen.—( Hear, hear.) It had been
said by two Hon. Members that he had formed his opinions
from having attended meetings upon this subject at Exeter
Hall. He denied that he had been converted by any thing
that had been said at those meetings; he had only attended
one, and he did not think he should ever attend another—( A
laugh)—and as for having formed an opinion from what he
heard there, he had formed his opinion long before he ever
went there. As to the arguments used by Mr. Stephen, he
was of opinion that that gentleman was deranged.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Baronet concluded by moving his amendment.
Mr. O'CONNELL, before he proceeded to address the
House, wished to ask the Chairman (Mr. Bernal) a question
upon a point of order of privilege, viz., whether he, the Chair-
man, possessed the same privilege as the Speaker in ordering
the gallery to be cleared of the strangers.—( A laugh.)
The Chairman (Mr. BERNAL) said if any Hon. Member
chose to take notice that he saw strangers in the gallery, it
would be his (the Chairman's) imperative duty to order the
gallery to be cleared.
Mr. O'CONNELL—" Oh, very well, Sir, but I do not in.
tend to look that way at present."—(Loud laughter.) His
object had been attained. The House would perhaps have
been placed in a very unpleasant predicament as regarded
its standing orders, but he would refrain as he had
seen an avowal that if the " people" were suffered to re-
port, justice would be done. He would not advert to the
scurrilous manner in which that avowal bad been made ; but
if gentlemen were desirous of seeing an excellent specimen of
scurrillity, he would recommend them to read the Times of this
morning. He did not believe the promise in that avowal
would be kept, because as designedly false reports had been
given before, they would be given again. With regard to the
motion before the House, he regretted to hear the Hon.
Bart. use an expression against a gentleman who was not present
to defend hitnself.—(Hear.) That gentleman, Mr. Stephen,
had devoted many years of his life, gratuitously and honour.
ably to achieve the triumph of negro emancipation ; he was to
a certain extent an enthusiast, but it was in a good cause.
He was a gentleman of great talent and most honest integrity,
who had devoted his time to the progress and advancement of
humanity, and to giving the negro slaves the benefit of Chris
tian education. He (Mr. O'Connell) had heard Mr.
Stephen's speech at the meeting in question, but it cer-
tainly did not make any great impression on his mind.
He was sorry the Hon. Baronet had declared he would not at-
tend another of those Meetings, for, although he believed the
Hon. Baronet was not of any great use—( A laugh)—he added
to the respectability of the meeting.
Sir E. WILMOT rose and said, in reference to Mr. Ste-
phen's speeches, he only meant his observation to apply to this
particular subject. As to the Gentleman himself he (Sir E.
Wilmot) did not know who or what he was.
Mr. O'CONNELL would inform the Hon. Baronet that Mr.
Stephen was the son of that great patriarch in the cause of
emancipation the late Mr. Stephen, who was a Master in Chan-
cery, and who had zealous'y aided the cause of emancipation.
He would now come to the question of the 9.0 millions. He did
not know on what the question of the 20 millions was to rest.
Could the people of England afford that sum ? They had sent
their representatives to that House for the purpose of making
reductions, and they had scarcely made one at present. The
House had refused to diminish the malt tax—at least, it had
recalled its vote on that subject.—(Hear, hear.) It had re.
fused to abolish the assessed taxes—(Hear)—in short, it had
refused to diminish the great burdens of the people.
—(Hear.) And the ground on which it had refused to do so
was, that the Government could not afford to do so. Why
then, he would ask, were those burdens to be increased? How
were they to be provided for before so large a sum as twenty
millions was granted ? The people had a right to know how
it was to be provided for. Was it to be laid upon the agri-
cultural interest ? It had been clearly shown they could
not afford it. Was it upon the shipping interest? It
was perhaps true that that interest was in a more
flourishing condition than any other ; but he objected
to any thing like monopoly, or the giving of a benefit to the
West India interest by that monopoly. He should prefer
that the burthens should be thrown on the general taxation of
the country, than upon any particular interest; in his opinion
such a system was too bad to continue it any where, but ex-
tremely so on any particular interest. If this 20 millions was
to be paid, the people ought to get value for it. In the
present instance he must confess that he could see no value or
equivalent for it. The greater part of the representatives of
the West India interest were against the proceedings.—(Cries
of " No, no.") In support of which he had stated he would
only refer to the pamphlets of Mr. Burge, and several other
agents of the different colonies in the West Indies, all protest-
ing against the plan instead of co-operating with it. Up to
the present moment there was not the slightest indication of
removing the enforcement of labour from the slaves by the
whip.—(Hear, hear.) No one had come forward to put
an end to that abominable and cruel practice; the lash
was still to continue—(Hear, hear, hear)—and therefore
he would persist in contending that the people of this country
had no value or equivalent given for their twenty millions.—
(Hear.) It was true that in one clause the slaves were given
the rights of freemen, but in others powers were given to the
Colonial Legislature to take it som them —(Hear.) It was
said that the West Indians would sustain great loss, and that
profit would be taken frcin them which had been sanctioned
by repeated Acts of Parliament. Now, he would take upon
himself to deny that slavery was ever sanctioned by law in
this country—(Hear, hear)—and what demonstrated that most
clearly was, that whatever value had been given
for a slave, the moment to be set on foot in that land where a
remedy was to be found he was free.—(Hear.) He denied that
anything would be lost, as it was in evidence before, both in
aad out of that House, that there was not any set of human
beings who had more desire to get money than the negroes.
He challenged the Honourable Member who had spoken
last to disprove that statement.— ( Hear, hear, hear.)
In conclusion, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman,
in the name of the people of England, protested against the
grant of twenty millions, and stated that, in doing so ,he felt it
to be his duty to vote against it.
Mr. STANLEY was quite satisfied that there was no sacri-
fice the nation would not make at the national cost rather than
sacrifice the national honour. Neither of the two Hon. Mem-
bers who had spoken on this subject had stated any ground
whatever why fifteen millions should be preferred to twenty,
which certainly the House had a right to expect.—( Hear.)
He would pass over the observations of the Right Hon. Baronet
upon the anti-slavery meeting, and the anti-slavery society,
with which he had nothing to do, and he would pass over,
on the other had, the remarks of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, the Member for Dublin, on the West India
legislature, only observing to the Hon. Gentlemen, both
one and the other, that the mode of violent attack
upon one party or upon the other, was not a mode the best
calculated to bring parties together. The Hon. Baronet be-
lieved that he took as a ground for his opposition, and for
substituting 15,000,0001. instead of 20,000,0004, that the engage-
ment entered into by the Government and the House had not
been completed. He was sure the Hon. Gentleman uninten-
tionally misrepresented what the resolution passed by the House
was ; for he said you pledged yourselves by the first resolution
to the immediate and entire abolition of slavery throughout
the British dominions, and that has not taken place. Now,
with due
thin—(Hear, hear.) What they had pledged
respect to the Hon. Bart., he (Mr. Stanley)
would tell him that they had pledged themselves to no
such
themselves to, was that an immediate and effectual mea-
sureg• should be taken for the entire abolition of slavery through-
out the colonies. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite, the
Member for Tamworth, noticed at the time that very word
" immediate," and stated it would be better to strike out the
word " immece t
e, because it might lead to an inference that
it was wished to introduce the immediate abolition. He ob-
jected to the introduction of the word " immediate'" as being
liable to a Misconstruction, as tending to immediate ellianci•

pation. It was then understood that the word immediate re-
ferred to immediate measures—those immediate measures had
been taken—the Bill had been introduced, and the Act of Par-
liament would, he trusted, in a very short time be passed, which
should forthwith have the effect of producing, within a very
short period, the entire abolition of slavery throughout the
British dominions.—(Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Gentleman
said they had not obtained that cordial co-operation which
they had a right to expect from the Jamaica Legislature, and
gave the names of two or three gentlemen who had entered
their protest against the whole proceeding, and stated this as
an example of what was to be expected from the whole of the
colonists. Now he (Mr. Stanley) must express his sincere
regret that those gentlemen—one the agent for Trinidad, and
the others all representing the interest of the Island of Ja-
maica—had not felt it to be their duty to come for-
ward with their cordial co-operation, which he thought
the interests of their clients greatly required—(Cheers)—
rather than press upon the House and upon the country ob-
jections against the measure. The question for them to con-
sider was not whether, in all its details, this measure would be
desirable in the colonies or not, but whether under the state
in which this question existed, with the state of public opi-
nion here, it was not rather for their interest, and the interest
of those whom they represented, to come forward and close
with the British Parliament upon the terms which they
were disposed to offer.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
At the same time these gentlemen did not represent
the whole of the West India population.—(Hear, hear.) They
were very far from representing the whole of that body. He
would even yet trust that these gentlemen, having had the
opportunity of witnessing the proceedings of that House, and
having had the opportunity of personally knowing what the
difficulties of the Government had been in obtaining for them
such terms as they thought just and equitable, would exert
their influence when they proposed it for the purpose of en.
forcing and encouraging an acquiescence in a measure which
had now beeame absolutely necessary.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
But if, unfortunately, a different course should be pursued,
and he begged to say that such speeches as they had just heard
from the Hon. and Learned Member opposite, might tend to
produce the unfortunate result of stirring feelings of irritation
and excitement, instead of calculating upon it with sound
judgment and good policy—if they would still go forward and
offer resistance to the feelings and determination of this
country, why, then, to look at it in what was a secondary point
of view—to look at it in the low question of pecuniary consi-
deration, Jamaica, at least, would forfeit the whole of the
claim she might have to any portion of the twenty millions
which was now proposed to be granted.—(Hear, hear.)
The question then arose as to whether 37/. 10s. per head
throughout the island was a fair calculation with regard to the
value of slaves. He thought it was very difficult to give the
exact amount of the value of every slave, but he had in his
hand a list of actual sale! which had taken place of negroes,
and some had been sold for debt, all exhibiting what the
value of negroes had been between 1808 and 1827. During that
period there had been sold 22,661 negroes, at an average of
711. 10s. currency, which was about 51/. sterling, and the
greater part of that 22,000, had been sold under the disadvan-
tageous circumstances of being sold for debt.
From 1808 to 1812 there had been sold 5,498 slaves, at an ave-
rage of 531. 10s.
-- 1813 to 1817, 6,598, at an average of 53/. 10s.
1518 to 1822, 5,200, at an average of 58/.
1822 to 1827, 5,365, at an average of 38/.
The House would see, therefore, there was a fall in the
value of slaves to 38/., which was at the rate of 10s. a
head more than the average Government had acted upon.
The average in Trinidad, from 1825 to 1830, was 661. 15s. ; in
Demerara, from 1821 to 1825, 93/. ; and in Barbadoes, from
the two periods of from 1821 to 1825, and from 1825 to 1830,
38/. These were some of the calculations upon which the
Government had gone. In assuming that the sum of twenty
millions ought to be granted as compensation, they did not
consider that in assuming the average value to be 37/. 10s.,
they had exceeded the actual value of the slaves. There was
not one of the calculations of ten planters, eight planters, or
six planters, that had been alluded to by the Hon. Baronet,
but would more than give the amount of twenty millions.
Then, again, since the House had acceded to the granting of
twenty millions, which was done on a division, it had
cut off five years from the term of the apprenticeship, and no
man would say that that was not a great reduction of value
to the planter. They had already sanctioned that 20 millions
should be the sum, for, upon the division, the proposition then
was, that it should be 15 millions. Now, having since that
taken off' the five years, it was too much to expect that the
House would cancel that vote without one single argument
having been advanced to justify such a proceeding. The House
would recollect the manner in which the Government had been
attacked, and accused of breaking faith, for agreeing to the
shortening of the apprenticeship—a thing to which they were
driven by the force of public opinion —(Cheers.) It was a pro-
position to which no Ministry, who had any feeling of honour
or consistency, could submit.—(Cheers.) His honour was
pledged, and he felt it was his duty to give it all the opposition
in his power.
Mr. BUXTON, after passing a high eulogium on Mr.
Stephens, proceeded to say that there was not one clause in
the Bill, however curious it might appear, that he would sup-
port with more pleasure than the grant of twenty millions ;
and if any degree of reproach attached to those who voted for
it, he was prepared to take his share of it. The amount was
far surpassing what he thought the actual value of the slaves
was ; and if the Government were only to wait till next year,
they might buy emancipation at a quarter of the present price ;
but then in what state would the colonies be ? He supported the
grant for this reason, if emancipation was not given, more than
20 millions would be spent in military preparations, and what
was worse, it would be against men who were merely asserting
their natural rights. He would much rather give double, or
any amount to the planter, than have such a thing to happen.
The Government was entitled to great praise for the measure,
and he was sure they would be supported by the country. He
was quite aware that the people were suffering great distress,
but he very well knew they would suffer a little more
hardship, rather than lose all the benefits of the
Bill. If it was not passed, they would lose the colonies ;
were they not cheap at the price of twentymillions ? It would
put an end to that murderous system of depopulation which
had been so long going on in the West Indies. It would
extinguish slavery, and it was possible, in his opinion it was
certain, to altogether extinguish the slave trade ; and
also, it would go a very great way towards
abolishing slavery in the world. For all those benefits
would the people grudge such a sum ? The Government he
was sure would receive the co-operation of the slaves them-
selves—they would repay their debt of gratitude by their in-
dustry and their peaceable conduct in their new situation.—
(Cheers.) He said the body of delegates, though against him
on the compensation clause,were a most excellent body of men,
but if they were opposed to him he had one great name on his
side; he could not name him now without feelings of emo-
tion—he meant Mr. Wilberforce—he bore a high testimony to
the character of that Gentleman, and regretted that he had
not lived to see the cause he had so long and so ably advocated
carried into full execution.
Mr. FRYER expressed his astonishment at the manner in
which the question was met by the House. Scarce was the
sound of fifteen millions out of the mouth of the Right
Honourable Secretary, before he: came down with a pro-
position for twenty : and this he founded upon the value of
slaves. But, was giving 20/. for 32/. 10s., paying the full
value ?—(Hear, and laughter.) The planters would get the
money, but would never execute the Bill; and the Bill
(said the Right Hon. Member, striking vehemently on
the table) is a dead robbery.—(Loud and continued laughter.)
The people of England did not make the negroes slaves, and
why call upon them to pay the money ?—(Hear.) The House
would not dare to make such a Bill for Canada, nor dare to
take away the legislative rights of that colony. The
other ground on which he was determined to oppose this
grant was, that the House had no right to mortgage the future
industry and labour of the country. There was no pledge given
that the sugar trade would be thrown open, and after all this
compensation-money was granted, the West Indians might
still charge the :people of this country at as extravagant
a rate as they pleased. He would oppose the grant in toto.
Mr. R. WASON opposed this grant as most enormous and
extravagant; and entered into a variety of details, for the
purpose of showing that, according to the calculations made
by the planters themselves, this grant of 20,000,000/. would
greatly exceed the entire value of their slaves and estates in
the West Indies.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, it was curious that after all
that had taken place, they had not heard one word from the
Noble Load, as to what source the 20,000,000/. was to come from,
and by whom the interest of it was to be paid. That was not
an unimportant consideration. He had, indeed, heard it
stated, and he should be most glad to hear it confirmed, that
inasmuch as emancipation was a Christian duty, it was in
the contemplation of those to whom our interests in those mat.
ters were confided, to raise it by a sale of a portion of the
Church revenues of the country.—(Hear, and cheers.) That
would be a most comfortable assurance, for then there would
be an appropriate correspondence between the end to be ac-
complished, and the means by which it was to be gained.
—(Hear.) But he was afraid that was a mere illusion.
He remembered the eagerness and eloquence with which the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) appealed to the House to
give its unanimous sanction to the resolutions, in order that they
might be adopted, and sent off as a rich freight to the Colonies.
But they didg'not then foresee the dilemma into which they might
be thrown when Mr. Peel's Bill was brought forward. Mr.
Canning most eloquently implored the House to give that Bill
its sanction, and the House was so beguiled by the reason-
ing in that speech that they decided upon a measure
whose effect they had been deploring ever since. It was the
same with the present measure—the House had been led
away by their feelings, and by the feeling out of doors, to
give this measure their sanction; but if when all the meet-
ings throughout the country for the abolition of slavery were
held, it had been known that that great boon was to be
purchased at a price of twenty millions, he could not imagine
those petitions would have' found their way into that House.
The House was now in a situation that it was scarcely possible
for it to retrace its steps. lle was one who would not part with
the 20 millions without a proper equivalent ; but the proposi-
tion before the House was, whether it should rescind resolu-
tions which it had previously passed—resolutions embodying
certain concessions. In his opinion, the House was bound to
adhere to them, unless it could be shown they were founded
upon false calculations and embodied upon defective principles.
Mr. ROBINSON wished to know from the Noble I4ord
opposite (Althorp) in what manner he intended to pay the
interest of the money, at the same time stating his con-
currence in the grant, observing that he had no doubt of justi-
fying his vote to his constituents ?
Lord ALTHORP had before stated, that he would propose

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h• that plan—he would rather have a prop x -At
iie (lid not concur. 'rile!' the Hon. and Le' dl. Tilt
Dublin said that would produce and continue a monopolym

that produce ; but he (Lord Althorp) could not see that ;
there was no connexion between them. As he did
not see that there were many gentlemen who were prepared to
vote for the clause, he did not think it necessary to go furthi r
into the question.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, as he understoud the proposition,
the NoWe Lord intended to raise the scale of taxation on
other produce, so as to keep the advantage to the West India
body. Was not that granting a monopoly ?
Lord ALTHORP considered that at present our own col,

tiles ought to have a preference.
Mr. HERRIES said the Noble Loid, in answer to the va-
rious questions put to him, had merely stated that the ulti-
mate intention of the Government was to provide for the in-
terest of this debt by a tax on colonial produce, but he (Mr. H.)
thought this clause required a great deal more explanation be-
fore the House could be justified in laying an additional burden
of 20,000,000/. on the people. It was the most unusual grant
he had ever heard of.
Mr. STANLEY did not rise to dispute the propriety of the
Hon. Gentleman's observations, but merely to remind him
that the question before the House was whether the blank
should be filled up with 15,000/ or 20,000/.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HERRIES had not yet come to the passage relating to
that subject, and, therefore, he considered he had been rather
improperly interrupted.—(Hear, hear, and cries of" No, no.")
It was not stated in what manner or how this sum of money
was to be raised, but the Government were empowered
to raise it in whatever way they pleased, without the
controul or authority of Parliatnent.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
On all occasions hitherto every perpetual debt incurred by a
Minister had been subjected to the confirmation of Parlia.
ment. He was sure the Noble Lord opposite would not think
it impertinent in him, if he called upon him to give a more
minute explanation of the grounds on which he had
framed that clause in the way in which it now stood.
(The House at this period manifested some impatience, and
at the conclusion of a sentence, elicited loud cries of " Ques-
tion.") The Hon. Member censured the interruption, and
went on to argue that a subject of so much importance ought
not to be discussed in the absence of so many Members on the
Committee business of the House. He was afraid that the
House was not in a condition honestly and fairly to refuse the
compensation ; but it was incumbent on the House to show
I that it was done with reluctance.

Lord ALTHORP—The Hon. Member had argued gene-
rally on the clause, instead of against the amount proposed to
be inserted.—(Here, and loud cries of " time.")
Mr. AGLIONBY could not permit the House to di.
vide without stating his dissent from the sum proposed.
The Hon. Member continued to argue against the amount cf
compensation, amid the continued interruptions of the House,
and at length sat down.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, an 3 asked leave to
sit again. _ _

lir. STANLEY expressed a hope that, in consideration of the
importance of the subject, Hon. Members who had motions
to make would permit the adjourned discussion on the Bill to
take precedence.
The House then adjourned.