The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-24 00:00:00

framed, he would indeed require a renewal of the Ito which measures formed on the extreme principles of bee ause they could not bring it to any practical result. .
Coercion Bill, but as he had already told the right hon. both sides *mild soon reduce it (Hear, hear) scenes which (" Hear," and. ~ Oh !") He was ready to consider of the
gentleman that he was unfit to govern Ireland, he would as yet had been happily unknown. Before he sat down he aPPropriation" ofehe surplus as soon as Parliament had de-
repeat his hope that the Hot hon. gentleman would stop would make but one more observation. 'lf the Govern- termined on the principle ; but it was net &title to do it
short in his mad career. It might be said that the right ment had been deprived of the great and powerful talents now, and the incisive of the surplus must be the wants
hon. gentleman had been obliged to follow in the steps of of his right hon. friends—deprived of them on the very and necessities of the Protestant Church of Ireland, for he
the late Secretary for the Colonies ; but if so, he (Mr. F. I grounds of the question before the house—there might, would not consent to apply the surplus
.otherwise than for
O'Connor) hoped and trusted that in the changes now ,he thought, be found in that very fact a sufficient pledge the religious instruction of the Protestant population. Did
taking place, the right hon. gentleman would, like his pre- lof an honest intent and purpose to carry forward a salu- the hon. 'gentleman, in sincerity, think that he could de-
decessor, find a higher office in which he might take re- i tary reformation in the Irish church. He. asked on these . fend the resent position of the Protestant Church in Ire-
fuge.
(Laughter. ) He himself lived- in a district which grounds for the confidence of the house—with it Ministers land ?., 1 ray he prepared to stand by it in its present con-
was called " Parson's Paradise," from the circumstance of might do much—without it, nothing; but if it vvere re- dition ? 'NV ould the hue. gentleman assert that, as cons-
the great number of livings by which it was surrounded fused, their sole resort would be, a resort which he should pared with the Church of England, it was not endowed
(A laugh), and he knew them to have sold their tithes for I most certainly deprecate, an appeal to the people to de. with wealth in excess? If the hon. gentleman admitted
7s. to 10s. to the tithe proctors, after refusing 15s. from tide whether moderate or violent measures were to per- that point, haw could he, as a man of common sense, con-
the tithe payers on the terms of the full amount being en- 1 vade the councils of the empire. (Load and continued tend that they ought to make a more expensive provision
forced. He (Mr. F. O'Connor) never would pay tithes in 1 cheering. ) , for the Church of Ireland,' which embraced only a small
any shape or form (Much laughter) ; nor advise any of his IMr. LEFROY acknowledged that an explicit declare- portion of the population within its pale, than they made
constituents to do so. 1 tion at least had now been made by'his ;Majesty's mini- for the Church of England, which included nearly the
Mr. SHEIL observed that it struck him with surprise i sters • but he wished to inform the house with what feel- whole of the population of this country ? How were they
that after the speech of the. hon. and, gallant member for i ing tim.peopie of Ireland looked • upon this newly-issued to deal with the surplus ? Would the hon. gentleman
Worcester, one point of the question had . not called forth t commission. They thought that the sole question was, tell him that it did not require the interposition of par.
some explanation from his Majesty's Ministers, particularly I whether the Protestant or the Catholic religion should be 'lament ? The Government had been asked—" wFly,
as it was a point to which much importance was attache 1 established by the state. A more mischievous engine for then, do you not pass this resolution ?" (Hear, hear. )
He thought the opinion of any one of his Majesty's Minis- I the creation of dissension could not be invented. Why His answer was—because he had no evidence whereon
ters, openly and candidly declared, would carry much i should ministers act ite this manner? Why did they not to pass it as a parliamentary resolution, and he could not
weight with it, and he thought it but fair, for the satisfac- I boldly state that they intended to reinstate the Catholic agree to it as an hypothetical case. If he were to pro-
tion of the house and the, public, that it should be made religion? He would remind the house, however, that it teed on his own belief, and indeed on his own knowledge
known how far unanimity on this point subsisted among the was a Catholic Parliament of Ireland which adopted the ,of Ireland, he should say that there was an excess of
members of the Cabinet, or what shades of dissent were to be reformed religion. Ireland, at the period of the union, wealth belonging to the church of Ireland, and that it
found among them. (Hear, hear.) A noble lord in another surrendered its legislature upon the'stipulation that the was for her interest that that excess should be diminished ;
place—an expression quite parliamentary, if not always . religion of the country should be continued. There was but was his knowledge or his belief sufficient ground for
quite intelligible—was reported to have expressed him- no more reason why a majority of the people of Ireland, a solemn decision of parliament? One gentleman had
self favourable to the application of the surplus of the considering Ireland as a part of the empire, should be told them that there were 2,000,000 of Protestants in
church property solely to the purposes of the Protestant allowed to alienate the revenues of the church in that Ireland ; another had said there was only half that num- .
Church. Had this been said, or had it not? (Hear, country, than that a majority of any religious sect in any , ber. Was it not material to both that they should know
hear.) Why did not ministers come forward and boldly county or district of England should be permitted to precisely how the fact stood? Whatever view the house
declare their sentiments, instead of referring to the ex- alienate the revenues of the church in that district or might hereafter take of this question should be founded on
pression of their opinions? They had granted a Me' county. The true question, he contended, for the consi- 1 facts. The commission which been issued was to obtain
nession ; but he would ask them, would Ireland be satis- deration of the house was this—were the principles of the i thote facts, and upon those facts, when obtained, the Go-
fled with the political results of that commission ? (Cheers reformation to be set aside ? These principles were as yet 1 vernment would be found not slow to act. The right
from the members of the Irish Opposition.) The only untouched—they had not met the fate of the principles of hon. gentleman concluded by stating he completely agreed
difference between the conduct of the noble lord on the the revolution, and as long as they remained in force, and in the declaration of faith which had heed inside' tint
' occasion of moving the previous question as an amendment Ireland a part of the British empire. so long must the evening by his noble friend, and that he should be reed.;r
to the motion of the hon. member for St. Alban's, and on Protestant religion continue to be the religion of that at all tames to act upon it. (Cheers. )
the present, was this—that he had then opposed an im- country. If at any time it should happen that different Sir R. PEEL found it quite impossible to resist the ap- -e-
mediate decision on the question of appropriation on the religions were established in the countries, the inevitable peal just made to the house byehis right hon. friend, and
ground of granting a commission of inquiry, and now on result would be the dismemberment of the empire, and he would therefore tell him what were the objections
the score of having issued the commission. Now, he the destruction of monarchy in Ireland. There was one which he felt against the commission which had just been
would put the question on this single point—was this other topic to which he was anxious to advert—the amount I issued. ( Hear, hear.) He objected to the issuing of this
commission sufficient ? (Hear, hear. ) One remarkable of the revenue of the church of Ireland. • He had before commission, because up to this hour, judging from the
distinction between this and other commissions was evi- declared, and he now repeated, that the hon. member for speeches of his Majesty's ministers, the motives assigned
dent at the first glance—namely, that some time was fixed St. Alban's had greatly overstated the amount of those for it were indefensible. (Loud cries of hear.) He oh-
for the exercise of the duties which the persons appointed revenues. He had, in addition to the documentary evi- jetted to the issuing of this commission because, if ever
to act under the commission were to perform ; but here deuce he before quoted, the authority of a return since there was a time when the King's Government should
no time was limited. He need only cite the examples of laid upon the table of the house, and he could most posi- have attempted to settle the unsettled opinions of men upon
the education commission and the corporation commission tively say, that the whole revenues of the church of Ire- questions of property, this was the time. He objected to
to prove this position. Then, _again, how many corn- land for remunerating the bishops and clergy for the du- the issuing of this commission, because all the information
missioners were appointed? Nominally there were -14, ties they performed, deducting the sums abstracted by the which was necessary to enable the executive Government
but 'three of them were ministers of the Crown, and present bill, would not exceed 534,0001. In this calcula- to form an opinion on the general principles of the measure
a fourth resided, he was told, constantly in London,. thus tion were included '277 benefices under the patronage of which they evidently contemplated was already before it.
there were in reality only 10 ; these were to be divided laymen, and these he had alright to deduct fraool;mp
jatehretcettoh.taalt
a(lHree.ardy, Ictoeanry.u)lsetlit
te?oibtjseccetieidtreto
btyh the
animosityissuing af.
d this
d discord
c oc :drat -0
calculatedand t
oi in
aggravate a
l lwthh iacth
din-
perambulated, was..
into pairs, and every parish in Ireland was to be visited number of Irish livings, which, at th,R.uvseretse taken,
h
uleh embitter mission, becauseanimosity,i ttms
by. the one or the other of these pairs of -commis- reduce the grteses sum by
made as amount of 0 w
put forth, (Loud cries of hear.) " This commission, indeed !" said
night was substantially correct, cord by the nature of the inquiry hcl •t. h • d
wiii aut. arize..,
ps leornaemr sb.
boo there
to wereeach
pair,2,s t
Iso parishescommissioners
n tod eachto be the
revenuessta statement
ah
previous
parish ; on this point the terms of the proclamation were though it appea
ulaNteodw,
included the r • ' • from the hon.
revenues arising right baronet; " you separate yourselves from
explicit, and they were on the spot, that was the phrase, and which he observed,
as well as from tithes. He was much men whom you admit to be of the highest character, on
to collect the information for which .they weee sent out. the glebe-lands
rehdadlesmsadthean
In the first place, they had to ascertain the relative pro- astonished at the conduct of the right hon. Secretary for the great principle, as you say, of this commission. The
portions of the Protestant, Presbyterian, and Catholic po- Ireland, with respect to the appropriation clause ; it was principle on which they have rather separated themselves
pua 1 tion in each parish; next, the average 'attendance at in direct variance with the pledge he had given, that the from you is, that they differ from you as to the moral right
church, of each class, for the last fire years ; then, if there question should be left unprejudiced. of Parliament to appropriate the property of the church.
for
was a union of parishes, the average proportions of each The gallery was then cleared adivision, but none took You have, however, consented to that separation,andunder
in these respects. The next thing was, where there was place. On our return we found such circumstances,with all the elements of confusion which
such an union, for them to ascertain the distance between Mr. FINCH on his legs. The hon. member addressed are now abroad, itis too much to ask you what are the prin-
the parishes eto be sure, this was a piece of information the house amidst much noise and confusion. He was un- ciples on which you are determined to act—what is the
not very hard to come by i but, as if what he had re- d'rstood to be earnestly opposed to the resolution. He course which your Government has resolved to follow?
.
counted was not enough, as if government thought
the sad that if it were not for the mischievous exertions of the You objected to the motion of the hon. member for St. -
• -andagitators, who •
labours of the commissioners were not sufficiently Hercu- Roman Catholic priests
lean, they had to inquire into the, state of education in the people pay their tithes, there would be no need for this and you now object to the motion of the hon. and teaseled.—
..
each parish, to learn what books were employed for this till. member for Dublin,_ which contains no fact; but Weds
purpose, and to ascertain average attendance of eat h Me. FRENCH said that a sacrifice ought to be made the principle that Parbamentbas a right to approptiald tit
sect in the school. But even this was not enough; by landlords in Ireland, but the important alterations made purposes of public utility the revenues of the church .of
they were to report generally—he hoped the house would in the bill had done away with some of its best provisions. I eland. You say that your principle is in your commis-
observe the comprehensiveness of the word—on the vela- On the other hand, a considerable allowance ought to be si..n. I look at your commission and find it headed
tive situation of Protestants, Catholics, Presbyterians, mad 3 for landlords, who had lost some of their advantages what? A cominissiou for inquiring into the propriety of
Baptists, all and any . denominations whatsoever, in re- by the omission of an important clause. an appropriation of the revenue of the church of Ireland. to
spect to all these particulars. (Loud cheers.) And all leer. SHAW felt that the hon. and learned gentleman se.ular purposes? No, but a commission for inquiring re-
this was to be done by ten men. (Reiterated cheering.) (Mr. O'Connell)' and . the Treasury bench were quite specting the state of religious and other instruction now
He (Mr. Sheil) might be disposed to confide in govern- agreed in sentiment upon this subject (Hear), although ex sting in Ireland. (Cheers and loud laughter.) The
rnent, but he did not trust in their stability,—he did not the Government had not the manliness to avow it. The noble lord says he has made up his mind that the church
confide in their permanence ; their determinations might bill now before the house was quite different from the one of Ireland is a grievance, and my right hon. friend Billie-
be nullified by a change of administration, but a resolution of which the house had "voted for the second reading. ' He site, the Secretary for the Colonies, who has more know-
of
the House of Commons was not so mutable. But at (Mr. Shaw) believed that the measure in question had ledge of Ireland than all the' rest of his colleagues put ..
any rate we ought to knOw what we were doing. Let us, been done for no other purpose but to gain time (Hear, together, says that he too has notions upon the subject,
. continued the hon. and learned gentleman, have determined hear) • because, if the Government acted on the senti- but that this is not the time to explain them. ( Heat
men. (Cheers.) Either we must return to the reign of ment ;hey appeared to entertain, they concurred with the and a laugh.) My right hon. friend is full of informs-,
the conservatives, or we must have bold and consistent ad- hon. and learned gentleman, and he saw no reason why tion, he is traught with practical knowledge of Inland.
vocates of necessary changes. It was absolutely necessary they should not support him. He charged his Majesty's and he has made up his mind as to the principle on which,
to pursue a decided policy, and not have recourse to a Government with endeavouring to evade and shuffle from he will act ; but instead of telling us what that principle
.
paltry system of shifts and expedients. The hon. and this question. (Hear, hear.) He
would not reply to the is, what is the course which he thinks proper to pursue l
learned gentleman proceeded to observe, that it was absurd speech of the hon. and learned gentleman, who had pur- -why truly he selects our trusty and well-beloved Thom
to suppose that the Coercion Bill would effect the results sued an open and manly course.', He had only one or two mas 'Doyley, sergeant at law ( A loud laugh) ; The-
which Ministers proposed to themselves by its adoption. observations to make jointly upon the hon. and learned mas Lister, John Wrottesley, George Barrett Leonard,
Such measures had invariably failed. They might re-act gentleman and his Majesty's Government, for they might Edward Carleton Tuffnell, and several other learned
the scenes which ought to have struck them with dismay ; be jointly answered. lie -should quote one passage from gentlemen, to make certain inquiries which must be
all the atrocities which had been committed might be again the speech of an individual high in the Irish Government, completed on the spot before they can determine on
let loose upon the land, but they should remember that the Irish Lord Chancellor, on the occasion of a mo- the principle, and which cannot be completed if they
having made those dreadful experiments, and found them tion of the honourable member for Middlesex, in 1925, are properly conducted in less 'than four or fiveyears.;
a failure, if they persisted in this reckless pertinacity of not quite so strong as the present, . though there All Ireland is to be embraced in these inquiriece..The:
purpose, they would have to pass before God and their was very little difference
.between the resolutions. property with which the church is endowed is to be sub.-
couetry the ordeal of a most terrible and fearful judg- (Hear, hear.) The motion of the honourable member mitted to their investigation, and this too is to take place
ment. (Loud cheers.) for Middlesex was, " That it is eipedient to inquire who- under the auspices of a set of English gentlemen, who be'
Mr. ELLICE could not help expressing his astonish- ther the present church establishment-of Ireland be not cause they are 'unacquainted with Ireland are sent to meg&
ment at the tone which the hon. and learned gentleman more than commensurate to the services to be performed, minute inquiries on the spot, into the state of every parish,
had employed. Among the observations which he had both as regards the number of persons employed and the in the country, and are thus to go on a tour for statiseiest
addressed to the house he had remarked, that the Go- incomes they receive." And what did Lord Plunket say? information. Now, with all deference, I beg to inform '
vernment had lost much of its weight and efficiency. by He opposed the resolution, and on the ground that the the house, that all the information of -Which you appear at
the defection of the right hon. gentlemen who sat below measure would apply to England as well as Ireland. He present to be in want you have'already—all but this 'to
him (Mr. Ellice). said, " The hon. member evidently thought that Parlia- report such other circumstances connected with the moral
Mr. SHEIL—I beg pardon, but I do not remember ment was at liberty to deal with the property of the and political relations of the church establishment and the
having said so. church, exactly in the same way as if it were a tax on any religious institutions of other denominations dissenting
Mr. ELLICE—Then it was the hon. and learned other property of the state." This Lord Plunket objected from the Established Church, as may bring clearly into
member for Dublin. But he would. merely ask for what to, yet that was the very object of his Majesty's, Govern- view their bearings on the general condition of the people
was that loss sustained ? (Hear, hear.) For what was ment, and Lord Plunket was now in office. " That the of that part of our United Kingdom called Ireland.' There
that change forced upon the Government? That the Go- property of the church might not be interfered with, as well is a variety of other minute facts into which you order
vernment might be able to act on one principle. (Loud as the
_property of the state, in a case of public necessity, these gentlemen 'to inquire ; but to send ten learned gen-
cheers.) He scarcely knew how to interpret that cheer, he would not assert ; but be it observed, that upon the tlemen to report on the moral and political relations of the •
considering the quarter frOin which it came, but he as- same principle, the private property of every man in the church and the dissenters from it in Ireland, is a species
sured the house that if he thought there was the least dif- kingdom was equally liable. But he would maintain that of commission which I never expected to find proceed from
ference in opinion between the members of his Majesty's the property of the church was as sacred as any other." any government. The details into which those gentlemen
Government as to the right application of the surplus re- Further, he said, "To take away the ancient rights of one are instructed to inquire may be tedious ; but bear "tt"
venues of the church of Ireland, and if he had thought that class of persons to give them to another could not be termed
.me while Hell you the nature of the information which
there would be the slightest hesitation in directing that anything else but spoliation." He (Mr. S.) could not sit these gentlemen are commissioned to obtain. The core-
surplus revenue to ends not dissimilar to the purposes for down without again simply calling the attention of the house mission is instituted for three purposes. Of these, the
which they were designed, he should not have joined the to the only and
Administration. in question, the consistencyor inconsistency first is to make full inquiry into the state of religious "e
Administration. (Loud and repeated cheers.) He agreed of his Majesty's Government. The hon. and learned gen- other instruction now existing in Ireland. Now, that
with the hon. and learned gentleman that the miseries and tleman had a right to call on the Government to avow his again branches out into three distinct parts ; first, the
oppressions brought upon Irelandby the existence of the esta- principle. The hon. and learned gentleman, in a speech to commissioners are to ascertain on the spot the population
blished Church (Cheers) were, such as were a disgrace to the delegates of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, had told of each •parish and the proportion existing between the
those who had permitted their continuance, and he was them the people should be numbered, that an inquiry should members of the Established Church and all persons dissent-
not afraid to say thus much. He. was not afraid to say be made into the amount of church property, the value ing from it; secondly, they are to ascertain the state of each
that he desired to correct the anomalies, to remove the of glebe lands, and into the circumstances of the clergy of pansh with respect to the means of education; and, thirdly,
abuses of that church, as the best means of giVing it secu- the Established Church, and of the Presbyterian Church they are to ascertain what are the practical revenues tf. the
rity ; and if he manifested his determination to apply, after also. ( Hear.) He (Mr. Shaw) believed that the cum- church. Are not these, I ask, the three points to whichen
duly providing for the spiritual wants of the Protestant po- mission would do the greatest mischief ; .it would rake up the first instance the commissioners are directed to point
I will undertake to prove to
pulation, the residue of the church revenues for the benefit the embers of religious discord, and fin the flames of reli- their attention ? Now,
on each. of these. three heads the
de-
of the mass of the people, he thought he should have dune gious animosities, andall for no other purpose than to patch monstration that you have
it is practically the greatest
something to deserve the confidence of the house and of up a cabinet a little longer which, without one principle to fullest information, and thatd
t_
the country. (Hear, hear.) He was sure that his col- guide its course, a firmness to pursue any course, was delusion that ever wasy.lalmeiti the country to send this •
to Ireland(Hear.) First, with regard to
leagues agreed with him in the
,views 'he entertained on launching on a troubled sea, where they would miserably commission
1
this subject, at least he did not' know that any of them perish. the population, on which shall not make
more than a
dissented from them. He' did not know why the hon. and Mr. S. RICE began' by observing, that imputations single observation. Before you proceed to act upon the
of this •
learned gentleman should expect a detailed exposition of more grave than had been uttered by the hon. member recommendation
of commission, you are to get a report
the several opinions of each of his Majesty's Ministers; he were never directed against any set of gentlemen, in pri- on the population
the each
parish, and on the proportion •
at least had not concealed his own. ( Hear.) But to the rate or public. ( Hear.) What did the imputations exisiting.t. between ie numbers of each sect contained
questiOn before the house. The hon. and learned gentle- amount to ? In the first place, to a suggestion of
by
wittinint There is to be an inquiry instituted in ever/
Ireland,
man had said that the question came before the house in a insincerity in respect to the declarations now made_ . y his_ parish.
_and the number of parishes in IreTSild is
different shape to that in which it 'had lately come before Majesty's government, imputing to them that which, if 2:,50G By the terms of the commission, the commis- •
its notice. Now he (Mr. Ellice) could not see any such true, was so grave that no individual amongst them could stoners are bound to make their appearance in every parish,
•
distinction. The honourable and learned gentleman hold up his head in that house or meet gentlemen in so- and to ascertain these points on the spot by the "best evi'
had said that the commission had been granted in or- ciety. The hon. member had imputed to them that, for deuce they can procure. Now, we have the population
enjoying
der to delude the people. (~ No, no from Mr. the purpose
.of continuing in place, and, a short- returns for every parish in Ireland •up tolB3l. Those re-
Sheil.) 'Then if it had not been issued to delude, lived existence on a troubled sea—ind short, for mere party. turns were only printed in 1533, and yet it' is now proposed
why did not the honourable and learned gentleman purposes, they were willing to tcgrace themselves in in 1834 that we should issue a new commission to procure
give credit to.the government for endeavouring to satisfy the sight of the whole country, and former doitas urwisely fresh information as to the population of each parish in
the people? (Hear, hear, hear.) Why did he not as it would be vainly. . a occasion, this come Ireland. The injunctions on the commission upon this
admitted en all hands,
give them time to mature their measures—why hurry them mission, 'it had been uonld lead point are distinct and positive. Now 1,200 persons were
on with such fruitless rapidity? The Government was to a certain result, and yet the house was now told that it employed in =kin and collecting the populatioet,rett.tern
scarcely formed, his right hon. friend (Mr. Stanley) had was a mere delusion and excuse to gain time and prolong I find each enumerator in The county of Iv ater"-''''
scarcely quitted the Treasury bench, and the Government the Administration. What was the principle involved in had 451. 10s. for his trouble. If, then, the enumerators
was accused of not makine, sufficient haste forward in the the commission, and what was the principle involved in the were all -paid at the same rate, the cost of enumeration
work of reform. He had the satisfaction of informing the resolution ? The principle involved inthe commission was, alone would be 54,0001. Yon -have the returns then, up
hon. and learned gentleman that a-meeting of the commis- that there should be an inquiry. into the exact situation of to 1833, and yet you are now Preparing to send out an- ,
sioners had already taker, place, and the first thing to religious_ circumstances of the Protestant Church of Ire- other commission to ascertain the revenue of the church,
land, 'on of the Catholic and Pro-
was,which they had been desired to_ effect their consideration and if,there was found to be an excess of wealth in and the respective proporti .
the Protestant Church Up to this whether their numbers were sufficient for the ade- . of Ireland, that Parliament had a testant population in h
eac parish. is hour yon
quate discharge of the duties they were to perform. right to deal with the surplus. In what way it was to deal have carefully avoided making that proportionp known. .
(Hear, hear.) All they asked from the hon. and learned with it was a subject for consideration hereafter. It had (Loud cries of, ' Hear, hear, hear. ) You 'have ,
gentleman was time ; let them have but a week or two to been objected, indeed, that that matter had been left un- been pressed heretofore upon this point. - You have been.
obtain the information that was necessary, and prepare ra- defined. According to the of the resolution, how- called upon to make a return of the number of Protestants
tional measures. If the hon._ and learned gentleman wished ever, the surplus might, be appropriated to the wants of the and Catholics respectively employed in the police. The
for an expression of his (Mr. Ellice's) individual opinions, Roman Catholic de u have always ven u to thi • day, to
rgy. With respect to the numbereng answer which yo
~ _ „ , p S
all he could say was, that he scarcely knew in what he of the people, there was a paper on the table of the house, such applications was No." (Hear,- hear. ) You ssla
differed from the sentiments entertained on this subject by moved for last session, which was a return of the number "We have removed the Catholic disabilities—we 11,:,
the hon. and learned gentleman iii (self., (Loud cheers.) of parishes which had fewer than fifty resident Protestant rendered all classes of his Majesty's subjects equal
'draw
He would assure him that when he (Mr. Eice) expressed inhabitants, specifying the number of families and the eye a the law, and therefore we cannot consent t° lic ~1
an opinion, he would not explain it away by qualifications, number of individuals in each family. The whole grin- any distinction between Protestants and uabman°- insto
He did not dissent from the resolution of the hon. and learn- ciple of the commission was involved in that return, and (Hear, hear.) This commission, however, is to ee
,sts„.
ed member for Dublin, except perhapS as far as the employ- no gentleman had objected to it. l-lis noble friend had al- each parish, to ascertain, slot only the amount of tl°r_ho
ment of the words " purposes of public utility" were con- ways stated that the inquiry was directed to ascertain the lation, but also the exact proportion between thoseo
of
the
cerned. Now, this was a.phrase which would extend to the aroma of the wealth of the Protestant Church of Ireland assent to, and those who dissent from, the doctrines feon.
building of bridges, repairing of roads, and maiay other pur- —to lay before Parliament the amount of the property of established church. Thus, as far as the population ish
the
poses of the same public nature, and he thought the hon. that Church, compared with the number of persons profess- cerned, with the exception of that distinction whic
.._..
and learned member ought to have made samelittle expla- ing the Protestant religion ; and that, in the event of its commission is to make between the Protestant
and Catn?
nation of the very wide term he had used. He didnot • that the wealth of the Protestant Church was lie parte of it—an exception
appearing which I consider- as a verb'
have all the
expect on this occasion to be favoured with the support, disproportioned to the numbers of members of the Protes- unfortunate ingredient in its inquiries—you have
) Then as.,
nor did he intend to claim the confidence, of those who tent Church, he proposed to submit to Parliament the ap- information which you require. (tlenr'On which • r in-
had looked upon this measure as one to be immediately plication of the surplus funds to other but kindred uses. to education. If there be any subject
it
is your _
is complete,
carried into execution, but he did lookfor the confidence of ( Hear, hear.) If he were asked what these uses might be formation respecting Ireland
wilt commence by :reading yet an
men who were anxiuus to aid the 'Government in their (Hear, hear), he would answer, they were not now called subject of education. I of 128 ' .• 3
.—‘ Inq uric
a fficult task of allaying -the passions of parties, and upon to say. (Hear.) The house had, in the first place, extract ro-from the education report. 8. .
.t_
been instituted both by co ami
viding for the public advantage. ( Cheers from the minis- merely to determine the principle,. whether Parliament have, at different pence,
b ' arlia missi tners. ._
terial benches.) In saying this he meant no offence to might deal with the surplus. He Mr. Rice ) owned that tees of parliament, and, y_ p
~ mentary com
_,,
the hon. and learned genfleman. He was not there to he had notions uPmi this point' "lc° ne nad often stated, appointed for the purpose of considering the state of dues"c _
• Ireland. ' Of these the most impertant are the tt 0
irritate or inflame,_ end the hon, and learned gentleman and was ready to state again (Hear), and, .if wrong, to. tion m .
1 Ile first of these commissions was issued in 180th ,-.
might believe him when he said that he cared but little for renounce them. (Hear, hear.) But it was premature late.sti _ _ . . .
%laced, in six )ears, 14 reports. The second coo"
himself, if he could protect the country from those scenes to enter into that discussion now (" Hear," and ' Oh !) and P

f_