The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-17 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNAL S:

The minority for a repeal of the Septennial Act
en Thursday was such, from its respectability both
as to numbers and character, that we may pro-
nounce, without much indiscretion, on the certain
success of a similar motion before many sessions
shall have elapsed. The stock of arguments of the
septennial entlemen were those resorted to by
Igied Althorp, who said that he had voted for a
nrtailment of the duration of Parliaments while
House of Commons was still unreformed, be-
'cause so much of that assembly was returned by
the oligarchy, and so small a portion by the people,
that hie drought it desirable to bring the latter class
4of members more frequently within the grasp of
their constituents. But that now, when the whole
body is returned by the people, there exists no such
necessity. Now just weigh this argument for a
little, and see what it amounts to. It is clear,
that under the old system, the rotten boroughs,
the close boroughs, the close corporations, and
the Leviathan-ridden counties—that is, those
wherein some one great family, from immense ma-
gisterial, clerical, and financial patronage, added to
the authority which this influence gave them over
the freeholders of their own and all the surrounding.
districts,—it is clear, we say, that the representa-
tives of the aforesaid powers were unchangeable,
and therefore incorrigible, by any such process as a
4lissolution of Parliament. Slaves they started, and
slaves they came home. On the other hand, the
representatives of the open counties or towns, in
number probably about three-sevenths of the entire
House of Commons, being returned, as Lord Al-
thorp said, by the people, and therefore responsible
to the people, but subject to be gradually wrought
upon by the corrupt hopes or fears instilled into
them by the Treasury, were just that class of mem-
bers of Parliament who might be considered fit
subjects for a new election, that their constituents
might have an opportunity of sifting their conduct,
re-considering their own choice, and sending the
gentlemen again to the House of Commons, or
sending them about their business. This therefore
is Lord Althorp's reasoning—" Formerly, when the
house was partly free, I voted for short Parliaments,
with a view not to act upon the oligarch members,
who were immutable, but upon those members who
did really represent the people, to save them from
betraying the people's rights, or to punish them for
having done so ; but now, now when the whole
House of Commons consists of precisely the same
class of men, of men freely elected, but open to the
slow dry rot of corrupt influence, the very same
class of men in consideration and in respect of whom
I always hitherto held short Parliaments to be de-
sirable, that the representatives might go back to
be confronted with and account to the people—l
have now discovered that quite a different policy
ought to be put in action, that reform—the magical
word reform'—has not merely extended the basis
of popular election ; increased the number of freely
chosen representatives, and thus improved the phy-
sical machinery of our institutions, but has actually
made human nature undergo a metamorphosis, annihi-
lating all those selfish motives by which men had been
heretofore impelled to activity, and tempted to sordid
indulgence—quelling at once the appetite for money,
and quenching the thirst of ambition—stripping
bribery of all its seductions, and purging humanity
of all its weaknesses and vices." This, all this, and
more, must be attributed by Lord Althorp to the
Reform Bill, in its operation, not upon the political
institutions of the country, but upon the immediate
work of the Creator, the mind of man itself, before
we can allow that there is one particle of consis-
tency, force, common sense, or truth, in his reason
for not now applying to the representatives of the
people, when they constitute the great bulk of the
House of Commons, the same test and the same
safeguard which, if the old Parliament had not con-
tained a certain though limited portion of free mem-
bers, he admits that it would have been fruitless to
apply to it, and which had for its exclusive purpose
to keep within, or recall to, the path of their dut:
those who had been fairly elected in the unre-
formed House of Commons, or, failing both, to su-
persede them by representatives whom the nation
had less cause to distrust. So much for the first
great argument used by Lord Althorp. His Lord-
ship next asks, will any man say that the mem-
bers of the house are not now responsible to their
constituents? That, with all deference to Lord
Althorp, is not the question. The question is—are
they enough so ? Have the constituents hold
enough over their representatives to present any
moral security that the latter will not sacrifice the
interests of those who sent them into parliament,
for the sake of some advantage to themselves? We
are of opinion—and so was Lord Althorp, not long
since—that the responsibility is too weak, because
the day of reckoning with the electors is too distant.
Is it not obvious, that when a member of parlia-
. ment has five or six sessions to come and go upon,
he may drive a precious bargain with the minister
for lucrative offices to relatives or dependants, and
thus obtain a rich price for his votes, though not
ostensibly in his own person, but more profitably
and safely through the medium of friends, without
endangering his own seat, or exposing his minis-
terial patrons to the risk of dealing with a less
tractable successor ? But it is likewise said that
the crown ought not to be driven into a corner,
and forced to dissolve parliament at the very hour
when the country is in a ferment of headlong
hostility to the King's advisers. We are no friends
to the operation of mere momentary impulse in
deciding the choice of representatives or the fate of
a ministry. Will the advocates for long Parlia-
ments, however, insist that when the country, or,
in other words the general constituency of England,
does happen to be thrown into a political ferment,
that ferment
.must always be unprovoked and un-
founded ? Is there no such thing as actual misgo-
vernment ? May not the people be justified in
their indignation against the ministers of the crown
—and is it no calamity to the nation that when the
discontent which inspires it does happen to be no-
thing more than the true index and measure of the
Tongs which it has received, the wrong-doing go-
vernment should have the power, under a septen-
nial act, of prolonging for four, five, or six years, as
the case may be, the same course of vicious policy
which has produced the disaffection, without check
or obstacle from any exercise of the national control ?
The rabble may be now and then absurdly excited—
the nation, we hope and believe, hardly ever ; at
least, for any period during which a serious injury
could be inflicted on the state through the prevalence
of such a disorder. And again—this apprehension
of popular violence takes for granted that some-
- thing like a demand for Annual Parliaments had
been put forth by the supporters of Mr. Tenny-
son's motion. Who dreams of that, save mere un-
reasoning visionaries ? Few now are advocates,
we believe, for a term so short as three years, at
this early period, after so great a measure as re-
form ; and in four years—the length of life which
we, with others, have ventured to recommend for
Parliament—there is as much opportunity for flux
and reflux of the tide of national feeling as could
be required by any minister not bent on a disregard
of all symptoms of public antipathy, or on perse-
vering doggedly in a course of provocation and in-
justice. The truth, however, is, that if there be
anything in the objection against short Parliaments,
because of the scanty opportunity to cool down the
popular feeling before an election, it would go to the
extension of the life of a seven years' Parliament to
ten years, as well as that of four years to seven ;
for it might so happen that the nation would
entertain some strong dislike of the govern-
ment, and owing to some unlooked for cause in
the sixth or even the seventh year of the exist-
ing Parliament, so as to force a. new election
in the teeth of that adverse spirit ; but we
have not yet heard any man bold enough to suggest
an act for enabling the Crown, on such a ground as
that, to substitute a decennial bill for th.
e present
duration of parliament. Mr. Stanley did injustice
to the arguments for the repeal of the septennial
act, when he assumed that the triennial bill was
described as the " constitutional" term assigned to
British parliaments. Such a view of the question

would have been miserably feelble ; for, doubtless,
two-and-twenty years is not, under any circum-
stances, a pattern era for the legislature to be
guided by ; yet was the time, however brief, dur-
ing which triennial parliaments existed, no frivo-
lous portion of our annals. The reigns of Wil-
liam 111. and Anne present no very contemptible
or odious specimen of British history in the arts of
war or peace, in martial, political, or literary glory ;
and the parliaments of those periods acted as a
constant and salutary check on the extravagance of
ministers and on the power of the Crown. The
debate altogether was far from edifying, except for
the extraordinary inequality between the amount
of the reasoning employed on the opposite sides of
the question.—Tines.
The Whigs have, at least, earned the praise of 1
consistency in opposing the restoration of Trien-
nial Parliaments. As to the authors of the act
whereby a Parliament elected for three years pro-
longed its own existence to seven, the consistency
of the Whig party in this point of view extends
over a period of nearly a century and a half.
'There have been, indeed, certain intervals during
that time when some of the leaders of the party
were so far inconsistent as to take exceptions to
Septennial Parliaments, and even to vote for the
shortening of their duration. But then it should be
borne in mind that all such backslidings into po-
pular virtue occurred when they were out of office.
Mr. Tennyson did not make allowance for the dif-
ference of position between a patriot in place and
out of it, when he quoted Lord Grey's words against
Lord Grey's ministry, touching the incompleteness
of any plan of reform which was not connected
with a shortening of the duration of Parliaments.
The chief argument relied upon by the Whig mi-
nisters and their satellites at present against the
repeal of the Septennial Act is that the Reform Bill
has rendered it unnecessary. But what was Lord
Grey's opinion when an opposition member of the
House of Commons ? It was, as Mr. Tennyson
stated, to the effect, that without a reform in Par-
liament there would be no use in shortening its du-
ration ; but whenever reform took place, the life of
Parliament ought to be limited to three years. The
opinion of Lord Grey was, no doubt, founded on the
supposition, which is as good at the present day
as it was forty years ago, that no practical good
could result from sending members back to nomina-
tion boroughs every three years. If they were sent
back every year they would still have been indepen-
dent of the people. But Lord Grey did think
that much practical good would be derived from
compelling the representatives of the people to re-
turn and give to their constituents an account of
their stewardship at intervals of three years, when-
ever a real representation succeeded to the fiction
of a virtual one. Therefore Lord Grey cannot now
oppose triennial Parliaments, except on the ground
that no real reform has taken place, and that the
Reform Bill was all a juggle—a thing which " kept
the word of promise to the ear, and broke it to the
hope." It is related of George 111. that, having
asked a newly-appointed Attorney-General whether
he had ever yet been in Parliament, he shrewdly re-
marked, upon his answering in the negative," lam glad
of it, for you will not then have to eat your words."
But if the venerable monarch had happened to have
had Lord Althorp for a Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, who could conceive the mental torture he
would have undergone upon finding that so high a
functionary of the Crown had to eat his words so
often? The country has heretofore seen that he
ate his word npon the assessed taxes, the malt tax,
the practice of military flogging, and some other ques-
questions in reference to which his opinions in office are
directly opposed to his votes when in opposition. So
it is with regard to the Septennial Act. "It is true,"
he says, " I have several times voted—l do not know
that I have spoken, but I have several times voted
—for shortening the duration of parliaments ; but
this was during the unreformed parliament." Any
person, then, who says that his lordship ate his
words in reference to this question, says that which,
on his lordship's showing, is not literally true. He
takes the distinction " I only voted for shortening
the duration of parliaments, I do not know that I'
spoke." This is no doubt a material distinction. Be-
sides, though he did vote for short parliaments, it.
was only in an unreformed House of Commons.
Good again. The meaning is that he voted for short-
ening the duration of parliaments ; when there was'
no earthly chance of its being carried, and when, if
it had been carried, it could serve no earthly pur-
pose. What did it matter how often the member,
of Gatton and Old Sarum, and the whole constel-
lation of close boroughs, went through the mockery
of an election ? But it does matter a good deal
whether the members of populous constituencies
arc to give triennial accounts of their conduct to
those who elect them, or whether they shall have
six years to practice all sorts of servility to the
Minister of the Crown, reserving one year to en-
deavour to make their peace with the people, and
to verify the sarcastic observation of a celebrated
writer, that a " death-bed repentance seldom
amounts to restitution." We have reason to be-
lieve there is not a small number of members of the
present House of Commons who got into Parlia-
ment during the reform struggle by making magni-
ficent promises, and who dread nothing so much
as being obliged to face their constituents. They
have reason. The recent discomfitures of Whig
candidates, wherever they have shown themselves,
prove that their fears are not imaginary. Therefore
they say it is necessary to have Parliaments of
seven years' standing, that they may learn the Par-
liamentary forms ! Why that senator must in-
deed be an egregious dunce who could not learn
enough of " Hatsell" in a month to serve him
for at least three years. Who is the colossus
of form and precedent in the House of Com-
mons? Is it not Mr. C. W. Wynn? Though a
walking index of the journals above the ordinary
stature of mankind, is he not in all that relates to
mind and legislation a mere pigmy ? The country
wants men of honest and real talent, not pedantic
red-tape formalists, to conduct its affairs in parlia-
ment. The country is more likely to procure such
men by shortening the duration of parliaments than
by allowing the representatives to be for a long term
of every parliament comparatively independent of
public opinion. In a triennial parliament such an
outrage would never have been committed on the
constitution as voting the Central Bashaw Bill, even
with the reservation of cutting it down in com-
mittee. The minister who could have dared to pro-
pose it would have found no smiling and obsequious
majority ready to share with him the " glory" of the
measure. He would have reason to rue the day
that he ever threw the mantle of his high office
over the vile features of this Malthusian job. It is
consistent enough that Mr. Stanley should fly to Sir
Robert Walpole for weapons to defend long parlia-
ments. To defend corrupt influence, nothing can
be so appropriate as the name and authority of the
great master of parliamentary corruption.—Herald.

The Chamber of Commerce of Lyons pro-
poses very shortly in that town a public exhibition of
every species of silk goods of foreign manufacture.
The object of this exhibition is to benefit Lyons, by
enabling the manufacturers to study the mode of ma-
nufacture, patterns, &c., compare the prices, and other-
wise appreciate the state of the silk trade abroad.
THE CONSPIRACY.—•" Canaletti, Prout,
Stanfield, and others," says the Athenceurn, " have
made us intimate with every coign of vantage,' of
the Sea-Cybele,' from the fine old barbaric pomp of
the ducal palace to the last grace and perfection of
Palladio. As to the Piazza San Marco, the Rialto,
and the Bridge of Sighs, they are familiar as Regent-
street ; as to gondolas and guitars, and the masquings
of Carnival-time, there is not a point concerning such
like pleasant subject, upon which a well-informed
home-dweller could not give, rather than receive in-
formation. -So be it ; Venice is the chosen home for
romance and imagination, and under the hand of a
master, the subject is so far from being exhausted,
that there is yet room for much to be sung and told
about this place of enchantment and mystery. The
Conspiracy' is alive with exciting incident, whether
occurring in the secret chambers of the conspirators,
in the dungeons of the Inquisition, in the veiled gon-
dolas, in the palaces of St. Mark's-square, or the
moonlit lagunes, or the wild shores of the Adriatic."

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 16.

, .
Their lordships met to-day, pursuant to adjournment, at
four o'clock.

The bills on the table were forwarded a stage.
The Earl of RADNOR presented petitions from parishes
in Kent, praying for relief to the agriculturists.
Lord WYNFORD presented a petition from a place
the name of which we could not catch, against the Beer
Bill.

The Duke of GLOUCESTER presente& petitions from
Segrave, and parishes in Devonshire and Yorkshire, against
the admission of Dissenters to the Universities.

The Escheats and Forfeitures Bill was read a third time
and passed, as was also the Court of Chancery Bill.

WARWICK BOROUGH BILL.

Their lordships then proceeded with the further exami-
nation of witnesses on this bill till ten minutes past six.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table cer-
tain papers relative to the state of the Canadas.
The Earl of ROSEBERRY postponed the second read-
ing of the Roman Catholic Marriages Bill until Tuesday
the 27th inst. He also begged to state that the select
committee on Scotch Entails had made great progress in
their proceedings, and he had been requested to apply to
their lordships to have the bill reprinted for the use of the
committee.

The bill was ordered to be reprinted.
The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE rose to present a peti-
tion of which he had given notice, from the clergy of the
diocese of Armagh, &c., when
The LORD CHANCELLOR interrupted him, by
stating it was understood the examination of witnesses
should go on until about six o'clock, or a little after,
and as the petition of the noble marquis might
create some conversation he would suggest whether it
would not be unnecessary to keep counsel and witnesses
waiting, and to adjourn the further proceedings until
Thursday next. About 35 witnesses had already been
examined, and there might be still 100 or more to be
examined ; a bill was also coming up from the
House of Commons, which might pass and receive
the royal assent, and would probably expedite the
proceedings. He wished that such a course should be
adopted as would afford the parties interested the fullest
opportunity of putting forward all the facts of their
case by strictly legal evidence. There was, how-
ever, this difficulty, that it was probable the
proceedings would be almost endless unless their lordships
were put in possession, in distinct terms, of the points
which the learned counsel wished to prove. (Hear,
hear.) It was not unusual, or unprecedented, to
leave an opening for petitioners to a bill or against
it (Hear), and he thought it would be better
to have the case distinctly stated first by counsel, as was
done in the case of the late Queen. This was the result
of considerable attention which he had paid to this case,
and so far from being disadvantageous, it would be greatly
advantageous to the parties, and also to their lordships
who would be no longer kept in the dark upon the points
which it was intended by the counsel to make.
The Earl of RADNOR concurred in the observations
that had fallen from the noble lord. He had had no more in-
terest in the bill than any of their lordships, and he regretted
the absence of his noble friend (Lord Durham), who had
just left the house, in consequence of an accident to one of
his family. He thought it would be a great convenience
to know what counsel intended to prove, if such a course
were not contrary to the rules of the house, and, therefore,
he suested whether it would not be better to require
Mr. Ifarrison, on Thursday, to begin opening with what
he intended to prove.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had made a mis-
take on the matter. He had thought that his noble
friend (Radnor) had undertaken the conduct of the
bill; but now he remembered that it was another
noble friend of his. However, as it seemed to
meet the wishes of the noble lords upon both sides of the
house, he would, without another word, move that it be an
instruction to the counsel for the bill that, upon the next
day of meeting, they should shortly open the case
they propose to prove before the house, but that to be
without prejudice to the rules of the house, and to give no
right to a summing up.
The Duke of WELLINGTON suggested that the mo-
tion had better be postponed till the close of the evenin,
when some communication might be had with the noble
earl (Durham).
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that would be the
better course, and he would write a note to his noble friend.
The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE presented a petition
from the clergy of Armagh, and other places, complaining
that they were unable to pay the interest upon the
money they had borrowed for the purpose of building
glebehouses under the Irish Church Bill, and praying
that the present incumbents should be allowed to
get free by a payment of only one quarter of it, in conse-
quence of their distressed state.

The Earl of WICKLOW said that had it been neces-
sary he should, with the utmost pleasure, have seconded
the motion of his noble friend. He could not, however,
allow the present opportunity to pass without recalling to
their lordships' attention the deplorable situation in which
the Irish clergy were placed, and to declare for himself
that the relief which they sought was much more mode-
rate than either their necessities required or he had ex-
pected. They only asked that further time might. be
afforded to them for paying the instalments which had be-
come due on these loans ; and under all the circumstances
he hoped their lordships would not deny a request that was
in every point of view so reasonable and creditable to the
petitioners who had put it forward. If precedent were
required to justify them in relieving. the Irish clergy from
these payments, the act of last session would furnish that
precedent. By that act similar payments were remitted,
and he thought the case which these petitioners made out
was just as strong as that upon which the exemption to
which he alluded was founded. The Board of First Fruits
had the power of making loans for two distinct purposes,
namely, to parishes for building churches, and to the clergy
for erecting glebehouses. These loans were to be repaid in
the manner his noble friend had stated. By the act of last
year parishes were exempted from the repayment of the
sums lent to them; and as the principle applicable to the
grants made to parishes applied with equal force to the
loans received by the clergy for building glebehouses, he
could not understand how, consistently with justice, they
could continue the payments in the one case while they
remitted them in the other. Just let them for a moment
consider what the situation was in which the Irish clergy
were placed. They entered upon their livings under the
impression that their incomes would be certain ; that their
rights would be as much protected as the rights of other
persons ; but what had been the result? Why, that, in-
stead of _ receiving that to which they were entitled, they
could get nothing, absolutely nothing, and were suffering
the most unmerited distress. The measure now pending
in another place would have the effect of causing a still
greater diminution in their incomes. That measure would
occasion a reduction of from fifteen to twenty per cent. in
the revenue of each living, in addition to which, the act
of the last session imposed upon the clergy several other
burdens that were grievously felt by them. It was quite
impossible for them to pay the instalments on these loans.
The heavy expense which they incurred by endeavouring to
collect their incomes was a circumstance which among others
ought not to be forgotten; and if noble lords would be at
the trouble to consult the returns which had been laid be-
fore the other House of Parliament on this subject, they
would be convinced not only that the clergy of Ireland
had much to complain of, but that it would be merely an
act of justice to relieve them from this particular incum-
brance. He, therefore, hoped that their lordships would
give a favourable consideration to the prayer of the peti-
tioners, and the ground on which his present appeal was
founded was that they would have an opportunity of insert-
ing a clause in the Tithe Bill to effect that which was re-
quired of them, as that bill had not yet got into committee.
'lbis was, consequently, the proper time for adding such a
clause, and surely it was only just that something should be
done for these petitioners. In alluding to this bill he was,
bound to admit that it had his humble commendation. lie
did not speak of the details of this measure, but only of its
general principle. It was the best and most rational mea-
sure which his Majesty's Government had brought forward;
but even that acknowledgment was not saying much in its
favour. He would, however, go a little further, and fully
acknowledge that this bill undoubtedly did contain some
really wholesome provisions, and it was not therefore with-
out considerable anxiety and alarm that he viewed the de-
lay which it had experienced in its progress. But he
trusted that his Majesty's Government would not allow the
bill to be spoiled in the committee; that they would not
hearken to the dictation of faction ; and, above all, that
they would not abandon a measure which was likely to pro-
duce so much good in Ireland. He would not detain the
house any longer, but, in conclusion, he begged to repeat
the hope which he had already expressed, that the prayer
of the petition would receive the attention of their lordships.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the noble earl.
that the Government would not abandon the bill. The
delay which had been given to its progress was not attri-
butable to them, but to circumstances, and, had it been
practicable to urge it forward with greater speed, steps for
that purpose would have been taken.
Lord PLUNKET was understood to say that the prayer
of the petition should have his support.
The Bishop of DERRY thought that the petitioners
were entitled to that for which they asked. Nothing could
possibly be more reasonable than the indulgence they
solicited, and when the situation in which they were placed
was considered, surely the justice of giving an affirmative
answer to their prayer must be obvious to every one of
their lordships. He rejoiced to find that the Irish clergy
had had the good taste to place their petition in the hands
of a noble lord to whom they were so much indebted for
the services which he had rendered to them, and, as they
were suffering the most aggravated distress, it was to be
hoped that their lordships would grant to them the trifling
boon for which they asked.
After a few observations from the Marquis of DOWN-
SHIRE, which were not heard in the gallery, the petition
was ordered to lie on the table.
_ MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

The Warwick Witnesses' Indemnity Bill, the Liverpool
Witnesses' Indemnity Bill, the Dublin General Cemetery
Bill, and several private bills, were brought upirtim the
Commons by Mr. BERNAL, Mr. O'Cornizza., and others.

The Earl of CAMPERDOWN presented petitions from
various parts of Scotland, praying for an alteration of the
law with respect to church patronage in Scotland.
After a few words from the Earl of HADDINGT ON,
the petition was laid on the table.
Earl FI TZWIL L I AM presented petit ions from the Wes-
leyan inahodists of Macclesfield, and from several other
places in-Yorkshire. The noble earl also presented peti-
tions froin Dunfermline, and another place in Scotland,
against the corn laws.
The Marquis of BUTE presented petitions :.n h-
say for the better observance of the Sabbath.
The Archbishop of YORK presented a similar petition
from a parish in Yorkshire.
The Duke of HAMILTON presented a petition from
the handloom weavers of Renfrewshire for a regulation of
wages ; also a similar petition from the vicinity of Glas-
gow ; also a petition from Lanarkshire, respecting church
patronage in Scotland ; also a petition from Renfrewshire
against the bill for regulating the appointment of ministers
in the church of Scotland.