The Sun.
London, England, 1834-04-14 00:00:00

SPIRIT OP THU PUBLIC' .10tit'IsIALB.

In animadverting, as we have repeatedly done,
upon the defects in our system of criminal juris-
prudence in the metropolis—a system which it
may reasonably be expected that Lord
Brougham's bill will greatly improve, we have
as frequently noticed the extraordinary anomaly
of so great a proportion of accused persons be-
ing tried by judges nominated by the corpora-
tion of London, and for whose fitness the coun-
try at large possesses no kind of security. It
is true that three of the judges of the land are
always named upon what is called the rota of
the Old Bailey Session ; but, at the same time,
the abstract which we generally publish of the
result of the Old Bailey trials shows that the
proportion of them which falls to those learned
persons bears a very small proportion indeed to
the whole of the business of each session, prov-
ing, in short, that the city judges try full nine-
teen-twentieths of the county prisoners. As
Lord Brougham's bill, with great propriety,
will bring the bulk of the prisoners from the
most populous parts of the counties of Surrey,
Kent, and Essex, for trial at the same bar, care,
we think, should be taken to remedy, or at least
not to extend, the evil above alluded to ; and
that persons tried for criminal offences in the
metropolis should be arraigned before persons
of whose competency the Crowrm and its ad-
risers have the necessary knowledge. The
Surrey Magistrates—at least some of the most
influential of them—have, we hear, expressed
themselves strongly upon this part of the sub-
ject. They are said to acquiesce most readily
and thankfully in the main feature of the bill,
that of providing a more speedy trial of offenders;
but are not so well satisfied with the idea of
prisoners who have hitherto been tried by the
Judges of the land at Kingston, Guildford, and
Croydon, being now handed over to Judges
elected by the Common Council of London, or
to that of the costs of the trials being regulated
as now by a committee of Aldermen. At a
time, too, when an inquiry is going on, prepa-
ratory to a system of corporation reform, it may
be doubted how far it is advisable to extend in
the case of the Corporation of London those
judicial functions which are found to be more or
less a grievance every where ; and much as we
should regret to see any obstacle thrown in the
way of a measure of such great and salutary
importance, we trust that means will be taken
to insure to the public the trial of offenders by
competent and independent Judges ; and that the
heavy burden of the county rate in the four
counties to which the measure is to extend will
not be placed at the disposal of persons who
have never been remarkable for an economical
management of the large revenues of which they
already have the disposal.—Morning Herald.

A communication from a correspondent will
be found in another column relative to the case
of a man named Thomas Billamy, tried and
found guilty at the York Assizes of setting fire
to a stack of straw. We concur in the view
which our correspondent takes of the proofs as
constituting a very doubtful case of circum-
stantial evidence. The facts of the prisoner
having been seen near the stack some little
time before the fire broke out, and having
lighted a pipe of tobacco at a house on the
road about half an hour previously, amount to
nothing at all, when they are accounted for by
showing that the man was going, as was his
daily habit, on the road to his work, and that
smoking tobacco is a common practice with the
peasantry in that as well as in most other parts
of England. It appears, however, that the
prisoner, subsequently to the fire, had used
expressions. which were calculated to throw
suspicion upon him. It was stated that he
said among other things, " Swim, had been in
the village—that if he met Swing he would
clap him on the back—that the farmers de-
served it for having ill-treated their labourers,
and that there was nothing like a pipe of tobacco
and a match." Now those might be all words of
idle bravado, such as many labourers in those
times are in the habit of indulging, and many
have been uttered, for all we know, when the
mind was under the stupifying influence of that
beer-shop nuisance which the Legislature has
extended over the land, as if to assist the march
of demoralization in the rural districts, and
make criminals for the purpose of punishing
them. That those words, when taken in con-
junction with other very strong circumstances,
should have some weight we admit, as supply-
ing a motive for the act ; but in the absence of
such circumstances, whether taken as_ indicative
of the folly or ill-feeling of the prisoner, they
amount to nothing more, in our opir ion, than a
case of suspicion ; and surely on grounds of
suspicion only, although a jury has thought
proper to return a verdict of guilty, the crown,
invested as it is by law, with the saving prero-
gative of mercy, ought not to allow any of
its subjects to be put to death. Others ac-
quit against such evidence as would satisfy
their consciences in any case but one of life or
death. So it happens that some innocent per-
sons perish, and many guilty ones escape.
There is now notice of a motion on the journals
of Parliament, to alter the law, and make it
more consonant with the principles of enlight-
ened justice, by a better apportionment of the
penalty of the offence. . We alluded to this
notice some time ago, which was given by
Mr. Lloyd, the representative of Stockport,
and a member of the bar. Is it right, we ask,
when the Legislature is about to solemnly dis-
cuss the question of abolishing the punishment
of death for rick-burning, the Government
should continue inexorably to exact the extreme
penalty of the law for that offence, especially
in doubtful cases ? Among such cases we
also reckon that of Gilpin Reynolds, con-
victed at the late Assizes of Norwich, on
what appears to us very equivocal proofs of
guilt, and in whose case we understand the
jury were for some time divided, six against
six. Neither can we omit an allusion to the
case of William Pye, convicted at the same
assizes, chiefly upon what was called a codes-.
sion, but which confession was only a statement
throwing the guilt on another man, who was
acquitted. Pye, so far from acknowledging that
he participated in the offence, declared that he
endeavoured to prevent the other man from com-
mitting it by actually extinguishing the fire in
the first instance, whereupon the other set fire
to a larger quantity of straw to burn the place
(an outhouse) which he could not extinguish,
and then he ran away to give the alarm. The
Learned Judge did not pass sentence until the'
end of the assizes, when, we understand, he
left him for execution. The principal evidence
against Gilpin Reynolds was that he had given
false accounts of where he had been on the
night of the fire—that he had said he had seen
it from a place in the first instance, where in-
tervening objects would have prevented him
from seeing it, but surely he might have °b-
arred its reflection in the sky. This slight

circumstantial proof, if any, was eked out by '
some evidence of footmarks near the stack
with which his shoes had been tried, and
with which they corresponded in dimen-
sions ; but it was not pretended that there
was any other distinguishable correspondence
by traces of peculiar nailing, or the like. Evi-
dence of footmarks is at all times fallacious,
but it is particularly so when there is no evi-
dence but of the dimensions of a shoe, for it is
well known that the shoes of a whole parish of
labourers is sometimes made on the same last.
In this case one of the footmarks had been dug
up and brought in a box into Court, and it
was so obscure that scarcely the form of a hu-
man foot could be traced. We recommend those
cases to the especial attention of Government.
Since writing the above we have learned that
Thomas Billamy, the York convict, served in
his Majesty's navy, and in that service received
a wound on the head, which has, at intervals,
ever since, afflicted him with temporary de-
rangement—particularly when under the influ-
ence of liquor. When thus affected, he is in the
habit of saying the most foolish and absurd
things, as crazy people are wont to do. It is
highly probable that his intellect was in its
disordered state when he spoke the wild
nonsense about Swing being in the village,
and his clapping him on the back. It
should also be noted that although the fire
happened in November, no charge was made
against him until February, after a sum of
money—the price of blood, had been offered
for the conviction of the offender. Then his
absurd expressions were taken as evidence of
guilt. He had sufficient time to abscond if not
conscious of his innocence, but lie did-not take
advantage of it. He stood his ground—no
quarrel was shown to have taken place between
the prosecutor and him, which might have insti-
gated him to the malicious destruction of his
property—nor are we aware that, in the case of
Gilpin Reynolds, or that of William Pye, any
particular motive to inflict malicious injury on
the persons whose property was destroyed was
shown to have existed. The public have lately
seen that 14 months' imprisonment was thought
to be sufficient punishment upon two persons
convicted of killing factory children by cruel
treatment—one being sentenced to twelve
months' confinement and the other to only
two. In the former it was proved that
the little victim had been, on one occasion, beaten
with a ladder, and on another, actually hung up
by a rope put about his neck until he became
black in the face. In the other the innocent
sufferer was a girl .of but 11 years of age, who
was beaten about the head with one of those
thick leathern thongs, of which Mr. Sadler
produced a specimen some time ago, and so
severely was the barbarous discipline adminis-
tered as to produce an inflammation of the
membranes of the brain. The evidence in both
cases was clear and unequivocal. In both cases,
we believe, the jury recommended to mercy—in
the latter we know they did—and the recom-
mendation, in each instance, was so far attended
to by the Court as to mitigate the penalty so
far below the maximum of punishment for
manslaughter, which is transportation for life,
as to reduce it, in the former instance, to but
twelve, and in the latter to but two months'
imprisonment. Not so the recommendations to
mercy iii case of rick-burning—they are almost
invariably neglected—as if property were more
precious than life, and to injure the former were
more criminal in the eyes of British justice than
to feloniously slay a fellow-creature I—Morning
Herald.

The more we consider the pending public
question of civil disabilities, attached to the pro-
fession of particular religious opinions, the more
firmly we are persuaded that the people of this
great nation should accept nothing short of their'
total abolition. The time is at length arrived
when the principle may be boldly and success-
fully pursued. We have obtained, notwith-
standing the obstinate and blind opposition of
the Tories—peculiarly fomented by the bigotry
or policy of Sir Robert Peel—many important
piece-meal concessions in favour of full civil li-
berty in matters of religion. The ultimate tri-
umph of the advocates of Catholic emancipation
—the subsequent repeal of the Test and Cor-
poration Acts—and the present prospects of the
early release of the Protestant Dissenters from
the practical grievances so justly complained of,
are bright pages in modern history. But we
trust that the power of the aggrieved parties
in the state will not be the only measure
of relief. The Protestant Dissenters, in
their present powerful and determined com-
bination, and in the possession of a decided
majority of the electoral votes of the cities and
borough, will be able to insure their complete
manumission. But we now expect, despite the
Tory peers, the total repeal of every statute
which affects the rights of citizenship in relation
to religious opinions. The " faith-stretchers"
are no longer dominant, and we are not com-
pelled to read the Scriptures through the eccle-
siastical spectacles of a clergy " established by
law." If the church of England is to continue
and flourish, it must be by its popular supre-
macy, and not by statutory protection, to the
injury of those who dissent from its doctrines
and public services. The vast majority of the
Irish are Catholics and Dissenters ; the whole
of Scotland is Presbyterian ; the increasing
population of England and Wales is unques-
tionably Non-conformists, and in the agricultural
districts it has become notorious that even the
lower classes, communicants of the parish
churches, are the constant and occasional at-
tendants of the evening services of the local
Dissenting chapels. This order and revolu-
tion of religious opinion and profession must
inevitably and immediately terminate all civil
disabilities, and will infallibly insure equal
rights to every class of religionists. The
rapid growth of liberal public opinion is ex-
traordinary. We extracted last week from
the Edinburgh papers a report of the proceed-
ings of a public meeting in the Scotch metro-
polis, to promote the emancipation of the Bri-
tish Jews, the Lord Provost in the chair. Can
there be a more remarkable indication of the
current of political principles ? And what a
lamentable picture does this enlightenment of
the public mind present, in contrast with the
prejudices of the House of Lords ? Last year
the Jewish Disabilities Bill, which passed the
reformed House of Commons by a vote of 4 to
1, is rejected by a large majority of the heredi-
tary peers ! Are we about to have the same
scenes of opposite opinion re-enacted in the
upper house ; and to what events must such
dissonances between the two branches of the
legislature necessarily and immediately tend ?
That prejudice and intolerance peculiarly be-
long to the peerage is palpably displayed
on the question of Jewish disabilities. A
mistaken belief that- the reformation of the
established church is destruction, and a natural

fear of the growing power of the protestant
dissenters, does not surprise us in the con-
duct of their lordships. But what possi-
ble fear can they entertain of the Jews ?
The Tory peers cannot apprehend that the chief
rabbi of England will instal himself in the
Archiepiscopal Palace of Canterbury, or that
the Talmud can supersede the use of the New
Testament among our Christian and Evange-
lical population. Is Protestant England, then,
to be disgraced by the perpetuation of the civil
disabilities of the Jews, when most other Go-
vernments have acknowledged their claims to
equal citizenship ? In France and Germany
their disabilities have been removed, and the
fullest rights of citizenship allowed them. In
Prussia they acquired all civil rights in 1811.
In the United States there is generally no dis-
tinction between Jews and Christians. The
Weimar Geographischen Ephemeriden repre-
sents the numbers of the Jews in these coun-
tries, Austria, 453,524 ; States of the German
confederation, 138,000 ; Prussia, 134,000 ;
France, 60,000 ; North America, 5,000. The
same authority gives Great Britain a Jewish
population of only 12,000 ; and is it to that
small but respectable class of religionists that
the Tory Peers, in their anxiety for the
Established Church and the_ Christian faith,
and in the face of all Europe, think wel to
deny the rights of free citizens ? " Has God
then cast away his people ? God forbid." We
trust that the Tory Peers will calmly reflect on
their present desperate position on all these
questions, and that their religious exercises in
the Easter recess will have illuminated their
minds. Lord Lyndhurst cannot get credit for
sincerity, with his former enlightened opinions,
if he opposes these questions. Lord Wynford
will not be suspected of the zeal of a Christian
in his opposition. We recommend the Jews
to pursue steadily and determinedly their claims
in the present session, and to make common
cause with the dissenters. But in any event
loud and penodical knocks at the door of their
Lordships' house is the only mode of obtaining
an entrance. To the Bishops we recommend
the grave consideration of the following perti-
nent extract from the Religio Stoici :—" A
friendly Address to the Fanaticks of all sects
and sorts," 1665, that " most of all Churches,
do like coy maids lace their bodies so strait that
they bring on them a consumption, and will
have the gates of Heaven to have been only
made for themselves."—Morning Chronicle.
Parliament meets again this day, for the
despatch of business ; but what business it will
despatch, or attempt to despatch, appears to be
quite as much a mystery in the government
offices as it is with the representatives of the
people. The rumour is that several of the most
important measures announced at the beginning
of the session, are to be postponed, and that
that only which regards the claims of the dis-
senters will be prosecuted. We are not friends
to hasty and intemperate legislation, and are
ready to make all due allowance for the difficul-
ties which his Majesty's ministers have to en-
counter ; but truly, if the present session be al-
lowed to pass over without any reform in the
law, in the Church, or in the poor-rate system—.
the people will have but little reason to be proud
of their representatives, and the ministry but
small ground for popularity. The public is not
to be trifled with, and will not accept of any
apology for the postponement of important mea-
sures.—Morning Advertiser.

It is with satisfaction that we perceive, from
the fifth number of the Corn Law Magazine.
which is now before us, that the cause of the
injured many, in contradistinction to that of the
monopolizing few, is in good hands. It is not
likely to suffer by any deficiency of fervour,
ability, or perseverance, as far as the editor of
this magazine is concerned. Causes of won-
der, says a proverb, never cease, and one can-
not avoid being perfectly astonished, in looking
back through the past vista of a few years, at
the various ingenious machines for plundering
unsuspecting industry, which have been in-
vented by crafty law-givers. Many of these,
with the inherent vitality of worthlessness, exist
for a time in darkness, and, as soon as the light
pours upon them, crumble to rottenness, or
shrink into nothingness. Others, however,
of these jobbing abuses make more obsti-
nate head against the inquiring spirit of
the age, and among these are the corn
laws—which may be described as a device
for keeping down the working classes to the
starvation point of existence ; for crippling
trade, and for destroying manufactures ; for
promoting misery, poverty, and crime, in order
that a few Sir Francis Wrongheads among the
landlords may cocker themselves up with the
idea that they are putting money in their
pockets, while, in fact, they are as effectually
dissipating it as if they were throwing it into
the British Channel. The idea of protection
to the high prices of one-third of the commu-
nity (the agriculturists), can only, it is quite
clear, be entertained with the view of plundering
the other two-thirds ; and as the two-thirds are,
or would be—if not artificially impoverished—
the best customers of the other third—the rob-
bers, by an indirect, but most just retribution,
may be said, after an Irish system of gain,
to be taking a great deal of pains to
pick their own pockets. In short, the sa-
pient legislators who invented the " Dear
Bread Laws" should have taken out their
degrees at the University of Lagoda among
the crack-brained philosophers of Laputa.
Such schemes as theirs can only be con-
sidered as the natural property of that
insular birthplace of all legislative absurdities.
We have stated the agricultural population at
one-third ; but the farmers (except the few
with long leases) and the agricultural labourers
have no interest in the pretended protection of
the corn laws, more than the manufacturers and
their workmen. All ought, therefore, to unite
cordially—masters and workmen, farmers and
labourers, to carry the point of " cheap bread
and extended trade," against the few Leviathans
of the land. But instead of this union what
do we see ? A degraded yeomanry and pea-
santry on the one hand, deluded into the belief
that their interest lies in a kind of social suicide ;
while, on the other, the manufacturers exhibit a
gloomy picture of restless competition and ago-
nizing struggle—worked up with all the darkest
features of selfish rage and malevolent com-
petition. We see the masters striving to
snatch from each other in ever diminish-
ing rate of profits, and the workmen esta-
blishing a new circumvallation of close
corporations, for the purpose of monopolizing
high wages and light toil, while they exclude
from work the starving myriads, who, with lin-
gering want on one hand, and clamourous vio-
lence on the other, besiege the marts of droop-
ing industry. The editor of the Corn Law
Magazine opens it with an able article " On
the Arguments used on both sides in the Debate

of the 6th anal 7th ultimo." We perfectly
concur with every part of it ; and recommend
the entire paper to the perusal of our readers.
In the meanwhile we shall content ourselves
with pointing out the striking and well-
argued detail which it contains of the rami-
fications of mischief radiating through every
fibre of the body-politic, from the " corn-law
dry rot, with which the mischievous com-
bination of brutal ignorance and rapacious cu-
pidity have contrived to inoculate the British
oak. Can these things last ? Impossible. The
" giant evil" will fall at one blow as soon as
the agricultural and manufacturing classes—
becoming sufficiently enlightened as to the real
source of their injury and degradation—shall
unite to hurl to the dust the wicker idols of
ignorant legislation, in which, hitherto, their
mutual jealousies and mutual weaknesses have
allowed whole holocausts of human victims to
be sacrificed and consumed. When the indus-
trious " many" shall awake (and awake they
must and will) from their long trance of igno-
rance, and arising from the dust assume their
proper dignity, elevation, and post in the social
scale, they will be as surprised as Gulliver was
at the fragility of the threads, by which the
Lilliputian, but united faction of their selfish-
oppressors, have so long fettered their giant
energies to the earth.—Morning Advertiser.

SECONDED ;IT h N

SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

THIS EVENING.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Their Lordships met to-night at five o'clock.
Lord W YNFORD said that the bill for facili-
tating the recovery of debts respectively in England and
Ireland stood for the second reading that night. As he
had some amendments to propose, and as he was anxious
that they should have their lordships' consideration
before they were discussed, he would move that the
second reading be taken now, that the bill be com-
mitted pro forma, and that it be re-committed on
Wednesday next.
After a few words from the Marquis of WE ST-
MEATH, the bill was read a second time. It was
committed pro forma, and ordered to be re-committed
on Thursday next. .

The Duke of WELLINGTON presented peti-
tions from several parishes in the county of Nor-
folk against the separation of the church and
state. Also a petition from several townships in
the same county complaining of agricultural distress,
and of the manner in which the averages were made up.
The Earl of ROSSLYN, in the absence of his
noble friend Lord Ellenborough, postponed a motion
relative to certain claims upon the King of Oude, of
which notice had been given, to Friday the 2d of May.
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved for cer-
tain returns connected with the Court of Chan-
cery in Ireland. He did so with a view to
show their lordships the necessity of certain mea-
sures which his noble friend, the Chancellor of Ire-
land, intended to introduce into that house imme-
diately upon his arrival. They were to extend to Ire-
land the benefit of those changes which had lately taken
place in the Court of Chancery in England. The returns,
which were for an account of the moneys in the Ac-
countant-General's hands, &c., were ordered.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that to the
Old Bailey Bill, which stood for a second read-
ing without a day being fixed, he wished to make
two material additions. As he wished that they
should be well considered before being discussed, he
would move that the second reading be taken to-mor-
row, with a view to its committal ; the alterations
might then be made, the bill printed, and the discus-
sion taken afterwards.

Lord KENYON presented a number of petitions
relative to the Preston Railway Bill, which were re-
ferred to the committee.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented two peti-
tions from parishes in Suffolk, and one from a parish
in the county of Sussex, in favour of a Labour Rate
Bill.

Earl GREY presented a petition from the High
Sheriff and Grand Jury of the county of Tipperary
against a repeal of the Union. The noble earl said it
gave him pleasure to present such a petition. He thought
with the petitioners that such a measure as the repeal of
the Union would lead to nothing more than the absolute
ruin of both countries, and therefore it ought to be
resisteu both at the first and the last. Also, a num-
ber of petitions from various places in Scotland
against the present system of church patronage. In
presenting these petitions he merely acted ministeri-
ally and did not consider himself bound by the prayer
of them, or the statements they contained. The noble
earl also presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Glasgow praying to be heard by counsel against
the Voluntary Churches ( Scotland) Bill ; and two
petitions from dissenters complaining of their grie-
vances, and praying for redress.
The Earl of ROSEBERR Y said that he did not
wish to enter into the discussion of the church patro-
nage question prematurely, but having been intrusted
with a petition on the subject he thought he should not be
doing his duty unless he stated to the house the strong
impression that he entertained upon it. He well knew
that opinion in Scotland had long been fixed upon the
subject, and that of late it had become universal, not
only among the people but even among the clergy.
All were of opinion now that some change should take
place, and in that he strictly agreed with them ;
at the same time, he did not believe that it was
at all necessary or expedient altogether to overthrow
the present system, being convinced that the church of
Scotland, in its general assembly, had the power, and
would exercise it in such a way as to give contentment
to the people of Scotland, who were most tenacious
in all that related to their church. The noble earl
then presented a petition on the subject of church
patronage from the presbytery of Stirling, and from
several other places, to the same effect.
The Earl of H ADDINGTON said, that without
entering into the merits of the case, which he was al-
most unwilling to do at present, he begged to say that
he entirely concurred in that part of the statement of the
noble lord who had just sat down, that whatever
was done with reference to this great and important
question, relative to the church of Scotland, should be
done by the General Assembly itself. What it would
become the General Assembly to do, he should not
take upon himself to say. He had a petition to
present from the presbytery of Saint Andrew's,
with which he entirely concurred, and they prayed
that a system which had been so long established, and
which had been productive of such good effects, should
not be set aside by legislative enactment, confident as
they were that such enactment would introduce
confusion among the parishes, and create great dissa-
tisfaction. The noble lord concluded by stating that
he trusted, when this important question came before
their lordships in a regular way, it would receive their
deliberate and most impartial consideration.
The Earl of WESTMORELAND presented
petitions in support of the established church of Eng-
land, from various parishes in the diocese of Bath and
Wells, and from Lyme Regis, in Dorsetshire.
The Earl of ROSEBERR Y presented a petition
from Auchterarder, in Perthshire, for the better ob-
servance of the Sabbath.
HAND-LOOM WEAVERS.

The Earl of CARL ISLE presented a petition from
the hand-loom weavers of Congleton, representing the
deplorable condition to which they were reduced by
the low wages they received, which amounted to no
more than ss. weekly, and praying that some measure
might be introduced to ameliorate their wants. The
noble lord also presented a petition for the better
observance of the Sabbath from Ospatria in Cumber-
land.

Lord BE XLE Y presented similar petitions from
various places in Yorkshire.
The Earl of SUFFIELD presented a petition from
the independent dissenters of Union-street chapel in the
borough of Southwark, praying to be relieved from the
grievances under which they laboured. They prayed,
amongst other things, that thcy might be admitted to
the universities, and exempted from the payment of
church rates. ( Hear, hear.) The noble Lord
stated that he should support the established
church by every means in his power, but how far it was
consistent with the principles of the established church
that those who dissented from it should be com-
pelled to contribute towards its support, he was

not prepared at present to state. He had no doubt
that when the proper time came it would re-
ceive the due consideration of their lordships. The
noble lord then presented similar petitions from the
Baptists of Ashley and Milbourne, in Southampton,
after which,
The house adjourned till 10 o'clock to-morrow.

HOUSE _OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER resumed the chair at the usual hour.

Petitions were presented by Col. LYGON from the
county of Worcester, for the better observance of the
Sabbath, and on the subjects of repeal of the union and
tithes, by Mr. O'CONNELL. The hon. gentleman
asked whether the returns were prepared which he had
asked for last session, concerning the reduction of taxes
n England and Ireland?
Mr. SPRING RICE said that as a discussion was
approaching in which the hon. member's question was
involved, steps had been taken to insure those re-
turns. They should be made out and submitted to the
house on the following evening.
Lord MORPE T H presented a petition from the
Dissenters of Bradford for a removal of their grievances,
and another from the Wesleyan Methodists for a better
observance of the Sabbath.
Sir R. DONKIN presented a petition:from the inha-
bitants of the burgh of Berwick-upon- Tweed,against the
introduction of any measure into that house which should
have for its object the junction of that burgh to the
county of Durham ; a petition was likewise presented
by Mr. Bernal against the Western Railway Bill.
Mr. ROEBUCK hoped that, as he had a motion
to bring on to-morrow night, which would occupy a
great part of the time of the house, the noble lord
(Althorp) would postpone his intended motion.
Lord ALTH ORP could not consent to do so. The
motion he intended to submit was a preliminary one ;
he did not consider that it should meet any objection,
and though the hon. member's motion might occupy up
to ten or eleven o'clock, still he thought his (the noble
lord's) motion might be disposed of.
Mr. PELHAM, we believe, was glad that the noble
lord would not postpone his motion ; he also wished to
know whether he intended to bring in the motion on
Thursday night, of which he had given intimation ;
and at what time he would bring in that for the reform
of corporations.
Lord AL THORP, in reply, was understood to say,
that to-morrow he intended to bring on the question of
tithes ; on Thursday that of the poor-laws, and also
another subject ; and those three, he thought, would
occupy a considerable portion of the time:ofthehouse.
THE DORCHESTER CONVICTIONS.

Mr. O'C ON NE L L asked if there would be any
objection to produce the record of the conviction of
the men at Dorchester ?

Lord ALT H 0 RP replied, that as there would pro-
bably be some discussion upon the subject, the hon.
and learned member had better give notice. . .

Mr. O'CONNELL said that in order to raise that
discussion he thought the record of the conviction
ought to be before the house.
After a few words from Mr. HARDY, which were
inaudible in the gallery,
Lord ALTHORP said there would be no objection
to produce the record of the conviction.
On the question being put, that the Speaker do
leave the chair,

Mr. H. H UGHE S said he had intended to move
a resolution in committee, that after the sth of
April no duty on any future additional windows
be chargeable ; but as he thought it would be
inconvenient to move it to-night, he wished to know if
the right hon. gentleman opposite would, on a future
occasion, afford him an opportunity of bringing forward
that motion.

Mr. S. RICE was obliged to the hon. member for
postponing the motion, and promised to afford him an
early opportunity of bringing it forward.
Mr. KENNEDY asked a question respecting the
report of the commissioners of corporations.

Mr. V. SMITH said the Chief Commissioner was
at present out of town, and for himself he was un-
able to give an answer.

The house then resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply, Mr. BERNAL in the chair.
Mr. SPRING RICE said that he thought the bet-
ter course he could adopt upon the present occasion
would be to go into the votes at once, and to give any
explanation that each should require. There were,
however, one or two facts connected with the votes he
would propose, which he was:sure would be gratifying
to the house, and to which he would therefore call their
attention. The house was aware that under the
head of " Miscellaneous Estimates" there were com-
prehended five classes of estimates, to which the Irish
estimates were added by the present government.
Without going into a detail of these separately, he
would state the result upon them all for the
last four years that he had the honour to pro-
pose them to the house. The present year com-
pared with the past showed a saving of 234,0001.
(Hear, hear) ; compared with 1832 a saving of
726,000/. ; an wtih 1831 a saving of 1,322,0001.
( Cheers.) This was the result of the course that had
been adopted by the present government, and he
trusted it would appear satisfactory, particularly when
they considered one point, namely, that for the last
two years no vote had been taken for army extra
ordinaries. There was an actual saving therefore of
1,322,000 effected upon a gross estimate of 3,346,000/.
showing a saving of more than a third upon the whole.
He would now state what course he was about to
take with the present votes, and the first which he
was about to propose was taken out of its course, be-
cause the persons interested in it had really very
great claims upon the consideration of the
house, he meant the revising barristers.--( Hear, hear. )
Those gentlemen had performed services imposed upon
them by Acts of Parliament several months ago, and
up to the present moment they had not been paid. Va-
rious applications had been made to the house upon
this subject, and he would, therefore, move this
vote first. There had been a reduction in it
of 8,000/., the ,vote for the last year being 30,500/.,
that for the present being only 22,500/.
The CHAIRMAN then put the question that a sum,
not exceeding 22,500/., be granted to defray the ex-
penses of the revising barristers.. . . .

Mr. SPRING RICE said the second vote which
he should have the honour to propose would be that
which stood second on the list. It was a vote for two
pictures purchased for the use of the National Gal-
lery. He ( Mr. Spring Rice) never recollected a case
in which a stronger feeling had been exhibited by the
gentlemen of that house of all parties and opinions—the
most economical as well as those who entertained op-
posite views. The house had recommended to the
government that it was the opinion of the house
that a national gallery should be established, and
they at once adopted the resolution of purchas-
ing two of the finest pictures that had ever
been seen in Europe—two Corregios. The go-
vernment resolved that that was an opportunity which
should not be omitted, and the house having adopted
the resolution of establishing a national gallery,
conceived that it could be a disgrace if the pic-
tures were allowed to slip through their hands.
—( Hear.) The house should know what steps had
been taken to ascertain the value of the pictures; it
was his ( Mr. R.'s) duty to show that they had been
purchased at a reasonable valne. He would state
one single fact, to satisfy the house that they had
been purchased on reasonable terms. They had ob-
tained distinct evidence, from the gentlemen who had
been appointed trustees to the National Gallery, that
private individuals had in the way of trade offered
10,000 guineas each for them, many years ago, in
Italy. They were afterwards brought over to Eng-
land, and were valued at 12,000 guineas, but he
( Mr. R.) was happy to inform the house that they
had been enabled to purchase them at 5001. less
than that time.—( Hear.) He had procured the cer-
tificates of various individuals as to their value, but he
thought it unnecessary to refer to them, as it might
give rise to a debate upon taste which would not be
very useful to the house. He moved that a sum of
11,550/. be granted for purchasing two pictures for the
use of the national gallery.
Mr. W A RB URToN said the mere opinion of one
or two individuals, however eminent, would scarcely
be sufficient without further testimony, of the value of
the pictures, and expressed a wish that some in-
formation should be given to the house as to
the arrangements which had been made between the
Royal Academy and the National Gallery. He feared
lest by and by-there should not be room enough to
erect a sufficiently commodious building in which to
deposit the pictures.
Mr. S. RICE was glad to hear that there was a
probability that the deficiency in future would not be
pictures for a gallery, but,a gallery for the pictures. The
arrangement which had been made was just that which
the hon. member could wish, namely, that the property
was still to be considered public property, and the pos-
session of it could be resumed at any time.
Sir R. PEEL must put in a word for the Royal
Academy, and thought if they gave up their rooms
they ought at last to be relieved from a portion of the
expense. He should give his cordial vote to the

measure, and knew that government had taken every
precaution to pay no more than the real value of the
pictures.
Mr. E WART said that, whatever title it might be
said the Royal Academy might have to a place with
the National Gallery, he should like to know what
title it had to the rcoms in Somerset-house ?--
(Hear.) The only title it could claim was the
liberality of the public spirit for the Fine
arts. If the Royal Academy was to have the rooms
now contemplated, it could only justly have them sub-
ject to the condition laid down by the right hon. gin
V -
tleman opposite, the condition of resigning possesso
whenever the public might want it. The Royal AcadenlY
was almost filled with life portraits, and consequentlTi
paintings of much greater merit had to them, an

which formed a disgraceful in the system.
Sir M. W. RIDLE Y could not allow the observa-
tion that had last fallen from the hon. gentleman t 0
se-,
pass without giving a flat contradiction to the
ment, if it was meant to be imputed that there h;
any partiality shown in the hanging ° t
misinformed. No painter had any choice whatever; or
pictures. The hon. gentleman must have been g reallyr
any voice in the place to be occupied in Soler_
house by his paintings. ' There was a commited,
called a " hanging committee "—( Laughter)---wid:
whom entirely the hanging of the paintings ret° r
and nothing whatever of any partiality, liaci °fie
been known to take place in the selection of t
places for particular paintings. As a vdcaricy occurthee
in that committee, it was filled up out Five to
most eminent members, and the rule was tog_,,
every good painting a place above what was Cauca
the line. ( Here, hear.) Shere were undoubtned
a great many portraits of living persons, and
that was in consequence of public taste unfortunate,o
historical paintings, but still there was
encouraging those sort of paintings in preference,
no Peened
larity shewn respecting them. If it haPPeiteri
that a gentleman had to find fault with a good incta,('
not being placed in a good light, it was not to be was
sidered as the fault of any one. He ( Sir Mathew/
extremely glad in being able to- confirm the statemen
of the right hon. member for Tamworth, that if tilpre
pictures had not been bought by government, they
wit7'
'.
about immediately to be removed from the ao
The fact was that they were going to be taken
to the King of Bavaria, who would have g',vey
many thousands of pounds more for them than
had been purchased for, and the public could n°
fail to be gratified with the purchase.
(I,EFT SITTING.)