The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-18 00:00:00

grounds,
private gr
Hear, heer:
from the Cabinet, to be irreparable.—
?0,
vrieua Lord His Majesty has now placed my Noble
(Loud chew' ibourne at the head of the Government.,—
my sincere mg.) I am perfeinly ready to state as
His conviction,nothat ;-11 soliciting Lord Mellret_ne
Nia:lesV has made conviction,.
F mat abilities, •
and
lanwise decision.--(Cheers.) He
on, which liked great judgment
and dectif •natural and acquired,
Minister.. of Ms CO tqualitiesd,
aasrefanreascesmsay'ry in the First
opinion goes,
have, had the satisfaction, on on most occasions, of hav-
ing curred 'in opinion with him.—( Hear, and cheers, )
in ' these r' •
a Arcumstances his Majesty was graciously pleased
to desk e
It is no ier,
ontinuation of my services.---( Immense cheering.)
agreeable for a man to speak of himself, but I am
1.11)un r avfew words in explanation on the present occa-
Sion. S/ a .
.r," I have always had, as I believe it is generally
knownl always have had, a great disinclination to be in
office. I shall not now say that the experience have had of
office nas at all diminished that disinclination—(Laughter.)
put, Sir, in addition to this private feeling, I felt circum-
Oen' .3es connected with the present state of affairs, which
ger' .ainly did increase my feeling on this point. Cries
af « Hear, hear.") I was aware, having the feeling which I
ive stated I always have entertained for Lord Grey,
hat my resignation was the cause of Lord Grey's
r• retirement.—( Hear.) This added 'greatly, certainly, to the
• disinclination I had to be again in office, for I should not have
liked to have had it said that Lord Grey had retired, and
that I had in the end remained. This feeling, however,
was undoubtedly greatly diminished by Lord Grey's own
strong advice to me to continue in my present office.
._( Hear, he ar, hear.) These are all, however, minor
points. Thi:y all relate to private feeling. When I looked
no my public duty I saw every public ground for saying I wag:lit to continue where I am.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
I could riot, see one public ground which could justify my re-
fusing to :continue in the office I hold. That being the case,
'I felt it t be my imperative duty to
,continue to. act.—( Loud
cheers.) Now, Ido 'not know that it is necessary for
me to ay more on the reconstruction of the Government. I
wi'sh to add, in a very few words, however, and a very few
words 'they will need to be, a statement of the principles on
whidi the Administration is forined—( Cries of ".Hear, hear.")
• The principles,
,then, -on which the Administration of this..
.4 cdurttry is bound to proceed arc, that while the 'Government
14 shot Id presen-e the institutions of the country, they
should • carry, forward such reasonable but effectual
' reform--(Cties 'of " Hear, hear")—as the people have
a right 'to expect would be'the consequence of the reform of
Parliament -- (Loud and long-continued cheering)._
• and that while Government will feel it to be their
bounden duty not to propose any thing which can produce
any danger to the institutions of the country, they must take
care that they are so arranged and perfected that they
shall neither be more than adequate, nor less than v.lequatc,
to the objects for which they are intended ; and that they
should in every respect be so adapted as to suit the present
and existing circumstances of the country.—(Hear;hear, hear. )
I would say these are the principles indee-1 on which Lord
Grey's Government proceeded. In tkit Government we
*undoubtedly met with obstructions, but still these were
the principles on which we proreosed and wished to act.
These are the principles on 'Which his Majesty's present
Government intend to act- —ira may even now meet
with difficulties and obstructi Jas, but we shall endeavour to
overcome them.-._( Great, cheering. The N o ble d then moved for a ne:# writ to issue for the electionLor of
another member for. Nottingham in the room of Lord Dun-
cannon, who ha; tattled his seat by his acceptance of office.
The questf.aa having been put,
Colon`.4 EVANS hoped that the Government which had
Just 12,een formed would proceed with more consistency,
.as there was no question it would proceed with more
abragth, than the last that had been in existence.'
Be confessed that he (Colonel Evans) had not gone along
nvith the Noble Lord, because in his opinion the Noble Lord
bad not fulfilled what the country had a right to expect in the
way of reform. He begged to allude to a circumstance that
Iliad occurred a few days since--he meant a requisition
which had been got up, addressed to the Noble Lord opposite
'which had been brought to him, .and lie thought it his duty to
:his constituents to state why he had not signed it.--( Cries of
." Oh, oh.") As there were very few Members on his ( Colonel
E.''s) side of the House who had not signed it, lie thought it
necessary._._( Renewed cries of " Oh.") Notwithstanding the
number of " Oh's !" he assured, the House that he had very
good grounds for declining to sign it, and he thought it but
fair that every individual, however humble he might be,
should satisfy his constituents in regard to his reasons for
net having signed it. He had not refused from any factious
:motives.-_( Cries of " Oh, oh !") He begged to observe, that
-the practice of getting up requisitions had been lately grow-
ing into an establis:ned custom.---( Hear.) He did not
mean to say whether the practice was useful or not, but
it was now regularly referred to on such occasions. The mo-
tion of the Uonourable Member for Middlesex for the
adjournment of the House was quite in accordance with
established usage, as it was very natural to suppose
that his Majesty should be allowed a reasonable time
to select hie Ministers.--( Hear, hear, hear.) But if Parlia-
ment was allowed to suspend its functions, in order to
afford hie' Majesty that opportunity, he should' be extremely
sorry that the Members of that House should sus-
pend, their functions also, and act in so unconstitutional a
manner.--(Oh !) Many of the Hon. Gentleman who had
signed that requisition had greater claims and greater weight
!with the country than himself, but he would beg to ask what
was the consequence of such a proceeding? It was in some
degree to prevent his Majesty from exercising his free
choice in the selection of his Ministers.—(Hear.) Did it not
in some degree transfer the operations of Parliament to clubs
and cabals, or parties out of that House ?—(" Hear," and " Oh.")
He ( Col. Evans) contended that that would be the probable re-
sult of it. He had not the most remote intention of charging
any of the Hon. Menibers who signed that requisition with
iraprepriety of conduct. What was the position in which the
signing of that document had placed his Hon. Friend near
Lim ? They had thereby expressed their satisfaction with the
conduct of Government ; it remained to be proved whether his
Hon. friends had good ground for expressing that confidence,
and changing their previous opinions.—(Cries of oh ! and
no.) He contended that there was not one expression of dissa-
tisfaction in that address, and what was it if it was not a virtual
approbation of the conduct of the Government? He trusted
from the speech of the Noble Lord that the business of the
country would be satisfactorily conducted, although he could
not help agreeing with the Noble Lord in the loss
which the Administration had sustained-4 Hear, hear)—
ia the retirement of Earl Grey.—( Hear, hear.) He would
• conclude by expressing a hope that the present Government
would be better able to carry on salutary reforms in the insti-
tutions of the country than the last, as the last Government
Was undoubtedly a better one than that which preceded it.
Mr. TENNYSON said, that the last subject to which be
should have thought of alluding was that adverted to by his Hon.
and Gallant Friend.—( Hear, hear.) He would reply to it
by simply saying, that nothing could be further from his own
intention, and that, he was persuaded, of all those who had
signed the address to the Noble Lord, than to invade the
most sacred prerogative of the Crown—that of freely nomi-
nating its Ministers. The paper in question was merely to
express the good opinion of the Noble Lord entertained by
those who signed it, and their assurance of support if his Ma-
jesty should be pleased to recall him to office ; being con-
vinced that he would not return to it, unless he saw his way to
act upon the Constitutional and liberal principles for which
they gave him credit, and which he had now so fully avowed,
as those upon which he was resolved to act.—( Cheers.) After
what the Noble Lord had now stated, he was persuaded that
the present Government would adopt a liberal policy, and that,
while they preserved the prerogatives of the Crown, and main-
tained the institutions of the country unimpaired, they meant
to give to the people the full benefit of the wholesome prin-
ciples of reform.--( Hear.) Indeed the Noble Lord had ex-
presily declared that the new administration was formed on
this principle ; and if the Noble Lord did not feel that
he had so allied himself, and had not made such arrange-
ments with his colleagues as would enable him to
carry the purposes of reform into full and safe effect, he
never would have consented to return to office. This was his
(Mr. Tennyson's) firm belief; and therefore, being persuaded
that it was the intention of the present Government to act up
to the declaration of the Noble Lord, they should have his
support until he saw the Government take some step which
.would be a clear departure from the principles on which they
had set out. He would venture to invite those with whom he
had chiefly voted in that House, to take the same course.
While they agreed with the new Government in their princi-
ples, they should not be over particular in scanning 0,-•
at arriving at a result, and, as he hoped to —.4r mode
up the principles of the Reform BP'
fully give his confidence to " ibt One StiBi4M
elfeb
ment with which he - ""' NelAn MA tkle Govern-
the Noble Lord ;•," etTrintecl, being assured that neither
hor nis toiltagnet in offii.e_ would re
cause to .-epent the courtt, he had t Icien irit'ite' all the
lik,ral elements in the House 'vv-pait_Hd.now co-operate. It
would be most satisfa tc o the enlintry to see such a
cooperation for averot,l
As results which the
country had so albiio,-,sly
t to flow from the
reform in the represents
.e peopl6.—( Cheer. )
Mr. MATTI-LI/0 ATT nnplained, that at this
late period ;;; the Session
point or-the business done) nt of but early in,
u"-.in to suspend its function: 'en called
portunity to the Admi&-' (4- an op-
%.r it had ED quarrel-
l'ergi lie comple'
rown, form('
on as of

•carrels,
• mem-
lf the
eked
'ien

of the Hon. Member's observations teeri Jure lost in conse-
quence of the noise eYka.sioneo by Hon. Members leaving the
House.) Instead of acting, as he had pretended, in con-
.ferealty with the spirit of the age, and attending to the
wants of the people; he had devoted his titre, end that of
his colleagues, to chimerical and useless chano, se that
he (Mr. colleagues,
Attwood) believed that never` had
been assembled within the walls of Parliament a Ministry less
possessing the confidence of the country. From time to time
however, Ministers had complained of pressure from without,
and had even called upon their opponents to shield them
from the danger. As it was avowed that the present Govern-
ment was to act upon the same principles, he saw no hope for
any of the great and suffering interests of the country.
Sir R. PEEL.---As regards the expression of a little im.
patience by the House, of some parts of the speech by one so
much entitled to attention as is my Hon. Friend, I infer not
a disposition on the part of' the House to interrupt my Hon.
Friend in the delivery of his opinions, nor that the House
deem unworthy their consideration anything that might fall
from him, but rather a feeling hi which I must confess I par-
ticipate—that it may be better to postpone the consideration
of the effects the late changes in his Majesty's Government
are likely to produce,' till there shall be brought under the
consideration of the House, and emanating from his Majesty's
Government, some more distinct measure than the mere mov-
ing of a new writ—( Hear, hear, hear.) Being persuaded
that such is the general feeling of the House, I will so far
conform to it, that I will abstain on the present occasion from
making any observations on the probable policy, or what may
be the consequences of the policy, of the present Government
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite having, how-
ever, stated, in very general terms, what are the prin-
ciples on which the Government has been formed, he will,
perhaps, not object, more particularly as we have now
arrived at the 1 7th of July, and the session must be draw-
ing to a close-1 say, perhaps the Noble Lord opposite
will not, under these circumstances, think it an unreason-
able request, if I ask him to explain further with reference
to those measures now before Parliament, what is the
application of the general principles on which the Government
professes to be founded.—(Loud cries of " Hear !") On
looking into the order book, I find that there are three mea-
sures which properly bear the name of government measures ;
and they are perhaps the only measures in that book ,that are
entitled to such a designation. I wish to askthe Noble Lord,
then, whether it is his intention to persevere, the first in-
stance,-with the measure respecting church rates, and with the
substitution prOpsoa, of -some other charges for those rates.—
(,Hear. ) The seeped question I would ask is, what course his
Majesty's Government intend to pursue with respect to the
Irish Tithe Bill.—( Hear, hear.) The third question I have
to ask is, whether his Majesty's Government propose to per-
severe with the Irish Coercion Bill, in the form in which it
was brought in by the late Government, or whethee they will
substitute any other, and if so, what are the modifications
that are contemplated.—(Cheers.) It seems to me probable
that the Noble Lord will not be unwilling to make an explicit
declaration as to these matter's ; I trust that, at all events, he
will not think my request by any means improper.—( Hear.)
Lord ALTHORP-,-In reply to the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, I beg to state, that as regards the Irish Tithe 13111, it is
the intention of his Majesty's Government to persevere with
that measure.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the last ques-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, I have to inform him, that
I shall give notice of my intention to move, to-morrow, for
leave to bring in a bill to renew the Coercion Aet, with certain
modifications, the nature of which, when I make the motion,
I shall state to the House.—(Great cheering.) With respect
to the other question,: I am not quite prepared to state to the
Right Hon. Gentler or the House, whether his Majesty's
Government will have'time to carry the measure to which he
referred through Parliament this session ; therefore, if he will
allow me, to that question I will not give him an answer.
Mr. BARING said, in looking at the course his Majesty's
Government was likely to pursue, he could not help expressing
his apprehension that the security the country possessed that
his Majesty's Ministers would not go to extremes, was lost in
the absence of the Noble Lord (Earl Grey), who had left the
Administration.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Baring) had always
entertained the greatest respect for the Noble Lord, whom, as
one of a party, he had followed for a great many years, till he
saw the necessity of abandoning him when, as Prime Minister,
he brought forward measures which he ( Mr. Baring) thought
endangered the best institutions of the country. Still he placed
great reliance on what he knew to be the honourable and
upright intentions of the Noble Lord ; he felt confident that
the Noble Lord would see the necessity of stopping some-
where—that he would not go on urging them headlong in. a
course of what the Noble Lord opposite and his colleagues
might call reform and improvement, but which the country
would describe in very different terms. He repeated that the
Noble Lord was a security to the country that the Go-
vernment, of which he was the head, would not adopt ex-
treme measures. But the whole circumstances of the change
that had taken place—( Hear, hear)-'-the manner in which it
was made--( Hear, hear)—the manner even in which that sup-
port had been given, to which there had been an allusion, and
which had been so irregularly promoted through the clubs of
St. James's, by wary of advice to his Majesty's Ministers—
(Loud cries of " No, no," from the Treasury side, answered
by cheers from 'the Opposition)—if not to his Majesty's Minis-
ters, to his Majesty in the exercise of his prerogative--( Re-
newed cries of " No, no," and cheers)—looking to the quar-
ter from which this measure proceeded, and to the eager
support which the Noble Lord opposite received from
those who no doubt believed they were discharging their
duty conscientiously, but who were generally to be found
arraying themselves in favour of measures which, in his
opinion, would involve the Monarchy, and, with the Mo-
narchy, the liberties of the country—( Cheers)—taking
into his consideration all these circumstances, he could not
help thinking that the formation of the present Govern-
ment justified extreme anxiety and apprehension. While
some thought improvement, which was their name for
revolutionary changes, could not, march too precipitately.
the great mass, comprehending the property and intel-
ligence of the country, entertained a very different opinion.
The former could not fail to have their satisfaction particularly
increased by the changes that had occurred. He alluded more
particularly to the appointment of the Noble Lord (Duncan-
non) to the office of Home Secretary.--( Hear, hear.) He
entertained, to the greatest possible degree, personal respect
for the Noble Lord, and he had enjoyed the advantage of that
Noble Lord's private friendship. It would be believed, then,
that it was with deep regret he felt himself called on to de-
clare his conviction, that if the opinions of the Noble Lord
were allowed to prevail in the Government, the consequence
would be nothing short of ruin to the whole of Ireland. In
fact, the institutions of that country would be placed at the
feet of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the member for
Dublin.— (Much cheering from the Opposition.) What were
the kjects of the policy of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
in Ireland he need not stay to inquire, because that Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had over and over again announced them.
Bearing those objects in mind, then, he repeated his apprehen-
sions that the Protestant Institutions and interests in Ireland,
would be completely placed at the feet of the lion. and
Learned Gentleman. With respect to the landed interest of
the country, he would say nothing further than that the majo-
rity of the former Cabinet was rdverse to it, or to those mea-
sures which the landed interest considered essential to its pro-
tection. Considerable reliance, however, was placed in the
Noble Lord who had retired, and who wag almost Its only
support.—.( Hear.) He (Mr. Baring) entertained now consi-
derable apprehension for that interest, which was the one with
which he was more immediately connected. He would not
allude to what might be the personal feeling of the Noble
Lord on again accepting office—of the propriety of that act
he, the Noble Lord, was himself the best judge 1 but he would
speak of the public considerations arising out of the change
and having no great confidence In the Government as it ex-
isted before, he should look to the measures of the present
Government with additional jealousy and appeehenSion. fie
entertained these feelings more particularly with reference to
the maintenance of the Protestant Church of Ireland and the
Protestant interests of Ireland. He apprehended that in the
same manner in which the Church of Ireland was to be vio-
lently dealt with, would there be an attempt hereafter to deal
with the Church of England.—( Hear, hear.) Seeing, from
the whole colour and drift of the changes that had taken pike,
that they were likely to affect those Institutions of- the country
in .
which; his conscience, he believed essential to
rthe maintb-
nance of its liberties and civilisation, hiLi Hold fist 1;:a a 1;
tis
changes without feeling eezieiclerable embarrassment. The
best thing
Lord or mn that could now haneen to them
• ' • - • • .
was, that the Noble
(.er fiTlakt have the power to get rid of the busi-
ness tit the 114, ifireoautidinbceonlcfee:
itreu th.e Genfletho,
,Su ere g
tate Of the
wa.atinie.neiopgliteereg,„.clenf Ihr
In
ntowtbne
--(A laugh)—and their presence
country; morep#4..chlarly if the chres Cop,ternp,latedinTthhies
Poor LaWs kiete 146 6irried it
iender their presence in the country of tne Ltlftoft
portance. He, therefore, sincerely hoped that the Noble Lord
would put forward the business of th.e.codotry, and in,the Mean
time explain to thviil. itlial 10 PiAeiit,
to heti' ninn the Noble Lord some statemed. w!!!! ?!..'!eo,ooe
to the budget. Great changes had taken place in both out.
receipt and expenditure, yet no notice had hitherto been given
as to when the financial statement would be brought forward.—
( Hear.) They had notices of other measures ; and the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade (Mr.
P. Thomson), had lately made a statement, something in the
nature of a budget, remitting taxation to the amount of
200,0001. or ammo/. What had been done by the Right
Hon. Gentleman had usually been done by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer in a somewhat more regular way. They now
had the forces marching together without any apparent object
in common. In the management of public affairs, the settle-

-Ad to be considered the
month,

merit of the finances of the c0w..., --
most imphrtaht ; but they had been sitting month tut.. --,
doing nothing. except listening to vague, discussions on subjects
in Which the count.tord
ry took little interest.. Before the Noble
bought en
.his budget he should move for the produc-
In of a paper which would show the entire failure of the No-
Lorc ord'o plan for the reduction of the Four per Cents.
ALTHORP' was undhrstood to say that he would
• ftriViayll the budget on Wedne _day next.
43'C°1"g1.41( s-aid;,- =llk e the Hon. Member for
who 1,',-,1 lugged' in fillfisla and shoulders matters on
found corn,..rinin:•••again.§‘,!the present Government,_ he 'Press the h ..
heartfelt gs.t-qt-i! lellti°n
i ex
.
he derived from h
mate that he was to intro-
, Die Lord opposite 411 mfreocreion Bill- 4 Cheers. )
'4l i?ll he called ' q -t-, take up only the peace-
' ...._:2.1 ' -se portions which gave
I,lc 4,w:" 4 ; '-; and to increase the
-140*'-'
,ict,--tt' • •t- -* t • If the Nobl6
`''' .Nfl -,tiotks' ° 1t5.a4,_...g rA,ed. 0- ,ia 3 PP°P • tech= c- • „,, .altire :its
7:: \\'‘'..4;rlll:%llll:r6:ei fl--::11"e;a'a7.:::11.1710,1:' 4dL-lesi' :::I;.l3fourt biryelietarshlYcl--e-
-' t this, - rd. Lla ti:00 li' ..bii thit he did
.ky7to:fropbl3:Le, °,r:Deseorrea:earry64,4•%o; it for Irelarid
ill
.'A watt .. ,Sik •

11 u u.-

gt
country ought to be pit down, or at least so ret7"7-•- had.
remedy the evil now complained of. He held in his‘ d that
letter from a friend in Lancashire, in which it was stabs., -.of
in one manufactory, of 170 persons over twenty-one leatib',dl
age, there were not ten who did not make beer shops s
nightly resort, and who did not expend the greater Pj
their wages therein. This was, therefore, an evil which-067;i
for an immediate and effectual remedy. The Hon. Bar° hi,-
( Sir E. Knatchbull) was charged with having pressed t.
it .
measure forward at t he end of the session, butshould be
Aolleeted that the Hon. Baronet had introduced it at an °I
period, and that it had now been for some months before,ttser
House ; and of this he felt assured, that the Hon. Bartejss
deserved the thanks of that House and the country, for haw"'
brought it forward.—( Hear, hear.
Mr. TOWER said a few words with respect to the or
of beer shops.
Mr. PARROTT said that the Bill brought in by the P°,.._ks
of Wellington for opening the sale of beer was one most;
neficial to the country, and he was sorry to see that messes
run down by vulgar clamour—( No, no)--aye, by vulgar eiro
mous raised out of doors, -and, he was sorry to say, echeeti
that House.—( Hear, hear.) He did not agree with eve'rs
measure proposed during the Administration of the Duke ,
Wellington, but he would say that his Beer Bill was cale..tt„,
lated to produce the greatest benefit to the people, and here"
gretted to hear a vulgar clamour raised against it. He hoped
that the Hon. Baronet, to whom he imputed no improper'
Lives, would withdraw his Bill, and allow the question to r!
main at rest until next session. He, in his capacity of. 11),..eg;
strate, only found one cause of complaint against: one 13'
shop out of thirty-six parishes, and that a very slight one.
Mr. HALL DARE differed altogether with the /1?0...A
Member who had last spoken. If ever there was a Bill pale;
by that House calculated to undermine the morals and pri°_,
pies of the people, it was the late Beer Bill—it had the e!ev.7
too, of increasing the poor rate in a great degree. Few (lo.as
tlemen had more to do with the administration of justice tu,,,
he had, and he found that the late Bill had added much tot. P,
catalogue of crime.. Feeling that Judges and Grand Jniis
s
were in favour of the proposed measure, he would give it efes"
support in his power.
Major BE A UCLERK staid he was determined to give of
Bill every opposition in his power. By the enforcement
ei
they drove the poor man from brewing for himself, and noi
they wanted to drive him from the beer-shop. He maintains,
that the trade in beer should be as. open to the poor man as le.
the trade in tea or coffee or sugar, or any other such Adis
He opposed the motion for going into Committee on the Pi
Sir R. INGLIS said that much fled been talked abei,
vulgar clamour having been raised agairict the Duke of
lington's Beer Bill. By whom, he would ask, was 710
clamour raised ? Was it not by the judges of the
Grand Juries, the Justices, the Clergy of \the countrli:„,
(Hear, hear.) Were these persons likely to raise a " vll4
clamour" against any legislative measure ? Mo.; but tAi
were not the only opponents to that measure ; :he rnidw
it.
classes of society in the country were equally opposed teio
Why then should the Hon. Member for Totness IsZakestbs
assertion about vulgar clamour? For himself, even thcs.4"oo
had previously supported the former Bill, he should haleOss
hesitation in revising his opinion upon being better info:
and voting for the Bill now before the House. s
Mr. ROCHE said a few words, which were inaudible
the gallery--(Cries of " Question !" " Divide, divider')
The House then divided—
For the motion lO5
Against it 35
Majority —7o
On our return to the gallery, we found the House in Cele.
mittee on the Bill.
Captain H. ROSS in the Chair.
The declaratory clause of the Bill was then put and afre,,,e4
to, as to the power of selling Beer under this Act, as it y"
istud under the present Bill,
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he would propose
amendment to the second clause, to grant licenses to per!'"
who could obtain certificates from six persons in their respect'tive parishes, to sell beer, provided such persons signing fir,
tificates should be ten-pound householders, and not malt°
or licensed victuallers, or other such persons. .14
Mr. GISBORNE said this clause would only increase.'-
business of country attorneys, who could easily obtain six nig:
natures.
Mr. WARBURTON said he would propose that the ws„°rcir
" six" be omitted. The difficulty was to say what nunr,,g
of sureties should be required in different parishes hario
populations varying from 300 to 500 as the case might be. %tic
his opinion the number of sureties should be governed by
population of each parish, as the population was returnea,,,
each petty session of a county. If found from petty sessi°,,o
,
returns that there were 25 parishes in each distinct division,„Zl
counties • and if the word " six" were agreed to, then be we
nP`
make a further amendment, that the securities be taken .br
Petty Session districts of counties.
•
Mr. TENNYSON was understood to object to the 13:11 °
it now stood.
o,‘
An HON. MEMBER also objected to the word :: annually;
which was introduced into the second douse. It would,.';
fact, defeat the object of the framers of the Bill, which hi
not wish to see effected. IA
Mr. F. PALMER was understood to say that the Bill won
confer no benefit upon the community—it might do serious i$
jury; at all events, to say the least of it, its operation must be
doubtful, and as such he could not be expected to support
Mr.-HU-ME said if this Bill were not so objectionable, Ur'
so many points, this clause alone would defeat its operation'
Let the certificates be signed once for all, and then hone
4
men would embark in the beer trade, but not otherwise.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said the duty was to be paid
nually, and he saw no reason why the certificates should no:
also be signed annually. Respectable persons would find no
difficulty in obtaining their certificates, and men
of_digerellt
characters should not have licenses.
Major HANDLEY said that once for all, the certificate':
might be obtained, but he could imagine occasions on whichL'
would be very difficult to procure them a second time. P-
wished the word " annually" to be left out.
Mr. GISBORNE said if a man could obtain six signsedreil
it would prove his respectability and once for all that shoal
be held sufficient.
Lord G. SOMERSET said a man might properly basT.er
license in 1834, though not so in 1835. A man's chanae!u
•rse ni ,;
might also, as well as his premises, change in the co -
year, and care should be taken to guard against mockery an
fraud. He hoped the word " annually" would be continued "
the Bill.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD, as we understood, said he vial $
supporter of the Bill, but for that very reason he objected t°
the word " annually," as contained in this Bill ; for he kr°
parishes in Cumberland and other counties in which six Per'
sons could not be found to sign certificates, not being ten'
pound householders ; or if they were, might have an enoiti
.against an individual snaking application for a licence in.
in.
se,,:ond year. Besides, suppose four out of six or nine inn.l
vidua2s had a friendship for a strange party, then the pelt '
who has: his licence for the first year would be likely, nris-
these eircuisistances, not to obtain it in the second year. s
difficulty he would recommend to the serious attention a v`"
Committee. If the party misconducted himself, then and then
only let him be deprived of his licence.
Mr. E. DENISON said A few words which did notrietleil
the gallery.
Mr. WARBURTON strongly objected to the use o
word " annually" in this clause. There was jobbing exercise
in public-houses--jobbing would also be exercised, in be r;.
houses, and that of all things should be avoided. The wig
drawal of one of the securities would be a suspension of and
man's licence.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he would introduce a clause
to obviate the latter objection of the Hon. Member. If in see
parishes six sufficient securities could not be found, thenl
would give leave to make application to a neighbouring.pnis,";
Mr. WARBURTON still said he would object to legislate
upon the future intentions of the Hon. Baronet. Why limit th
number to nine, out of which six should sign the certificate'
Out of the nine, the parson might be one, the mouse the Lei
cond, and the doctor the third ; if that were so„ the retv
dealer would still have to find six sureties.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he wait misunderatood-li
did not mean to limit the number, as had been stated lt well
be for the Committee to fix the number.
The House then divided--
For the motion 77
Against it
Majority -
On our return to the gallery, we found the Comm ttee
cussing whether the number of householders should by 3 or._.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said that provided the knutnixo
r
six were persevered in, he had no objection to the qualiiicati°
being reduced.

After some conversation, Mr. HUME proposed, as
amendment, that the Chairman should report progress,
ask leave to sit again. He did not, however, persist in
motion, and the Committee divided upon the question of Ir
taining the number six,:as proposed in the original clause-
The numbers were.
Ayes..
Noes..