The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-11 00:00:00

N GT.-(Tl-11S DAY.)
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it was a charitab'e bequest, it could not be ,
except by some namewhich, betokened. auccees
°;
Its ven
a certain corporate character, but if it
as spiritual bequests had been given to the eBfor
it, would be perfectly good for charitable purpo:;,
the time being, and would be enforced by the courts
eve-
They had also endeavoured to prevent in any way all
eeson
sions of the Bill from the bequest being given to
in connexion with the bishop, or by reference to aannYy_ePPnaraipi:
solar see, or to the person who held it, or any person
set
pointing to an office within it, and,
made, it would have to be disposed of by the Crown,.o"nslr
ble tbst
beieg yossible for the person himself to dispose it
tently with the law. It was thought more desire
ke
if any such beeeese Dot
tbe
there should be a forfeiture to the Crown than t° tr.lewhieb,
bequest absolutely void, because there might be Wee"
43,
from accident or ignorance, a bequest might be made'y to
of the relatives of a prelate, when it would nut be pee.
_es,o
annul the deed, and when it was right to enable tbaertutse
to grant it to the person intended. That was, e,d, as be
general scope and ground of the Bill, and it watt
woo
thought the House would see, effectually PreeennedPieirte•
from assuming titles from places in lee, United.sees
dom, and the existence of territorial diocese-s 'pr
ewee
The case referred to by the Hon. and Learned, of
for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck), of an archbishop at,:aelniog
near Westminster, would some precisely within the, the or
of the Bill, if it could be shown that those words bele. jlO.
text had any reference to the giving of the. tit hhiseop
doubt edly, in ordinary, parlance, it was true that Ante Arch.
Musgrave, when sitting in the House of Peers, ITvoeen weir
bishop in Westminster, and in the same wile' 11, though
hers in that House were elembers in Westminstere, eeeof
only one could be Member for I'Vestminster ; there°
the person claiming the pretended diocese residiegi., hese
would give him no authority or title whatever. lt:
said the Bill would not interfere with the sYneul that
out PP: er
of the Roman Catholic prelates, but he differed ti,seete
opinion, and thought it would be the necessary eeetl!4,,ell.
of the Bill that this action would be interf re" e tee
It was desirable to effect that object ji dons'
most quiet manner possible, but, if it was effeetu.- should
it was all the House should seek to do, and theY /reel
rest content with provisions suited to the oceasieeisresesef
said, again, that they did not deal with the partict apd the
a Roman Catholic priest or prelate by Ineina" ta Orego
terrors of eternal punishment inducing a pollee: h otter
the performance of several duties and rights /Yiliceeitt the
wise 'Catholich have done. For instance, wriSfeeolatil
Roman prelates might promulgate seple_ th'
to meet in a synod like that of Thurles, ancl..requseetbe
clergy to threaten to deny the sacraments to• ael. plash
enlisted in the British army or gave evidence, jai: /lot be
court of justice. That was possible, but it welteewee
proper to introduce such a question when there bad 00
reason for it, nor any likely to arise, and arise
hesitation in saying that if stitch a question e. 0, ob.
would be an offence at common law, and he had fi Orel/
the courts of common law would be found suffiejealiwiteb-s
to punish it.— (Hear, hear.) It was therefore epersoas
they should not attempt to meet cases erhertehey We!,
were terrified by their spiritual instructors, " eee'"
not cases legislation could touch, because, unless tie which
before the courts of law, they were watteroor° a wge
were secret between the victim and the. ,Pe este beil
afforded him spiritual instruction. To ili°sl;is-
- by the instance already referred to hiitwisterie
Friend, where the sacraments were refused to $ "eed, ea 4
Piedmont, it was obvious that if he had.been tern".lo re
had consented to violate his conscience, andetoefld
pented of an act of which he really approved, ue
obtaihe hned the sacraments of the Church, and-it
then'
mthe fa
ade, ad not done so, and had died withetit,ses,
made, the circumstance notorious. In all such7o.of
they must appeal to the good sense and judgei.disoofthe
Roman Catholic body, who would resist the oPlete'e. toed
Roman Catholic clergy whenever the latter were loth
enforce it. He appealed with very great confideeePietbSteil;
Roman Catholic laity in this country, and be eorlsie:
legislating on this question they were bottnu Leer
that body as being in all respects, with the °Das alert
tion of spiritual matters, in the same situationweifsw
selves, animated by a sincere desire for the sod 0;
the country, and for the preservation of order
Was
government. When, then, they thought it
was not
to introduce a measure of this descriptiolt, 1'4104 hut
merely for the protection of the Protestants, but to oil"
conscientiously believed, not less for the prote,e ed that
'd
Roman Catholic laity.—(Hear, hear.) He eheitieeve beh,evl,
large body of them felt in the same way, but
arty feetleeee
they were so bound down by their religion, hYPee' that tuel
and by a regard for the honour of their chere"'tho tPrau,s4"
were not able fully to express their feelings as °nee bis °ire
tages which would arise from the measure. For •.r"
part, he would have been better pleased if the nicety
nevid
it had never arrived, and if the question itself there Olt
arisen.—(Hear, hear.) He must say, he thought isfy,
be little question as to whom the Bill would ray cell'
could not satisfy those who said—no doubt peroehad
scientiously—they did not believe any
inflicted by the introduction of the he4b;eotedet
hear.) These Hon. Gentlemen conscientiously ° sof shed
any legislation, though it was possible enite.Y., if be bee
thought the Pope would have acted more propene' kind t
express _d his intention to introduce a bull of th,a,'• looked,
the State and to the country. As to those vi,.140" wade
upon the question in a political light, and ".opt 6°'
handle of it for the purpose of embarrassing the PZotrooP
vernment, they could argue the Bill was either I.Zo jelle;
or that it was not strong enough, and so it would ...fot°,
sible to satisfy them ; but, with respect to that largefn}lyi bse,
of the House who really and sincerely felt 20 tot the
been done which ought to be redressed, he lerd
ers fere%
measure before them was a fit and proper Ineeste-erasa
purpose for which it had been intended. The reelo4.re
tholics had always professed their desire to obeYr„, were
had asserted, he doubted not with truth, that tuel..rotos— t
tuated by the same feelings of loyalty as their thee, °I
fellow-subjects. Was it no a fit and proper thing'. taeasglir.
they should obey a measure of this descrietierl-,itles
which made it an offence by statute law to take otopeas
any place in the kingdom, or to administer &Or `.
the cad
would reference to those titles? He believed
_e.et it; e,e
would find the Roman Catholics would not re'isetopheee;
admitting that there was great danger in makiePe'sayilig
on political questions, he thought he was ssleop4p-ortto
won
seeing He thought it was but fair to give them art
seeing whether they would not obey the law leheien t obit
be established, and he felt satisfied that if they did 1.00 elere
the law, and that if it should be necessary to te
stringeut measures, the power of Parliament wonlue-esesl.llli
to be of the strongest kind, and could easily make 4*- bet";
which would amply meet the question.—(Hear' sucriga
He did not think there would be an necessitY dos
meaeure. He felt great regret that so rash and leiroects.
a step had been taken as that which rendered the 131 to the
sary—a step which could have no beneficial tendene.voy
Roman Catholic religion, and which might offer ite bad
the Roman Catholic laity • but at the same We' said -
perfect confidence that the' Roman Catholic laity would eioll.
found disposed to aid every measure which ives)°,:oich
tial for the due administration of the laW,Bll- bet'
designed not only for the protection of Protestantism, woe
he believed, for the protection of the lees agaiult an
mse or
assumption of temporal power.--(Hear, hear') mente.e
Lord ASIII.e.Y rose, but was Audible for A In° 1.
so, owing to the noise of Membersin
charge against the Roman holic bishopsleaving
e ing the neili't tbef
was, .tlicos Ott,/
had seized on, and desired to keep, positions la this j, oaf's
which they would not he allowed to or h°l
g°veN
t 0
the same circumstances, even in a Catholic country,
by a Catholic Sovereign.—(Hear, hear ) This ,0800ttP•to
question which merely affected the Church of this ei fOrCt
(dear, hear.) It was one that applied with eelePeo, orbs'
the Wesleyans, the Independents, and, indeed, evestke‘whe
class of Dissenters. It also affected the Rontailhtsees
themselves, and most undoubtedly it affected the %b....(10r;
inferior clergy of the Roman Catho'ic Chure the stelie
hear.) Ile must here express his astonishment at whet
_A
ter ieee
ment made by the Hon. Member for blanches eet 03.00,
declared that the Dissenters of the north were
sgegeesiter,
up with the opposition to the , Pepsi t the des
Lie could not help expressing his gratification 71 Ol
mination which the Dissenters same to, when t Churchete
that they would make common cause with the the
peen f 13th'
against the common enemy.—(Hear, hear.) ey enteree,,,e4
Member for Manchester declared that the Dies- the us 'be
north had not made a movement in opposition tife 005' tee
adopted by the Church of Rome in this ease, ithatArrhi,
permitted to take exemption to the correctness lot, e tee
ment. For what were the facts upon thisam" S.. pen °Lei.
that a most remarkable document from' the . had utile
Learned Dr. Vaughan, of Moorside, Lancashire'hotseetesl
published, in which the whole question at issedesd thee eseel
Protestants and the Roman Catholics, as roger: ability
aggression, had been argued with consummate pre.- te
ef ex tor
with all that clearness of thought and .pow eed Teed"
which were the characteristics of the 7,..-nd,
style.—(Hear.) He had this document in his cier•
cOriong
would read an extract from it • the
37014 lb°
"In all this we see Romanism. in a form troll
potic, arrogant, and offensive, strikingly
more liberal interpretations of it so common • a.alind Acv:orsc
Catholics before the passing of the Emapaaeltlearia-oufpldwit
eee
form, indeed, which is so much after the
the history of die Papacy, as to furoirisaggr,tagsittii.
enough,times iif allowed silently to take his course,' those W
dangerous alike to the British Crown and fathers
bav"
civil and religious, which our Protestant la' the
queathed to us."
This was a remarkable document, d ht
o•
ehowf te,
Nonconformists of these days were re hke'deretli
wheedled out of their Protestant d, thae the
Wiseman's bY ;ire °is:
Wiseman's address to the people of England'
wade le
Nonconformists of farmer days, by the effort.et steethe
same direction by James 11. - (Hear.) silty ',ea .hit
urged against the proposition before the House
ted•
dire ems'
weakness of the power against whom it was „ a rote
was not weakness a relative term? Might -trope 'As
which was physically weak, be yet morally yoPee, sot
was it not clear, that although the power of the bilge veto
sovereign was trifling, indeed, and had neither Feu cold 6,01
armies to carry out his aggressive •policy, that to ePeer.)
by his influence, excite half the nations of Eurolee_er,
his policy, and defend him against assaults-41310euletetiPiG
Had not France and Austria and Spain and :gai.)ol,l nese
subsidies to espouse his cause on a recent oceasi_ 0000 be
was not from fear that the measure before th01e...440 fs,
brought forward. A great insult had been tieZet
nation by the Pope of Rome, and that insule.ne. ppl;ite
repressed.—(Hear.) But then it was said ties" jegltitholir
tions before the House would interfere with than pries
Rotn the gr
extension of the ecclesiastical policy of the gilt Of /18'
religion, and that, in fact, it was an infringetne e °f the
tee
vileges granted to the Roman Catholics by tb
,e 0" tose!.for
Now, for himself, he would say, and he could eiel,ootlse'sese
same declaration for many thousands out of this ?sea
he had attended several large meetings held;,to et to
tion, and had heard the opinions given expressieeeted FsdeJ
—that he did not desire that the privileges , fern ipfri liwp.
Roman Catholics by the Act of 1829 shouldwugers totterwg
upon in the smallest degree.—(Hear.) They eonsi4lotell
posing the Roman Catholics, but they were toot topic
whether they would allow the Catholics to te'tostantietbst
rights which property belonged only to thePre ogoe
ear
of this country.—(Hear, hear.) But it, ass wtes Aces
this arrangement on the part of the 'PeFe'leettiett Cps
sary for the full development of the 10. se, j e
tholic religion. He had no liesieaV.ltheliee'blell.
that by the Act of 1829 the Roman ee their ,ese •
right to a full and complete development e'etija .o"ief
gion, and he would go farther, and say theteeis eeti_lisese ;
Catholic Church which had been goverued .011400,
for 300 years, should have the power. if theLhops,r4soge4
sary, to convert these vicars-apostolic into te this grl9
hear.) But while he would give his sanction ihe
meat, he had heard nothing to prove that. ee;4.4;rry ont,eso
were necessary to enable those bishops te eeiwette.e_eself
Roman Catholic religion to its proper and leg.,'64t dlPrsoo.e,
—(hear, hear.) Cardinal Wiseman would 4! Isterr be .„ot
Archbiehop of the Roman Catholics in Westin" --veisenjera Jae
in accordance with the statement which Dr.; ' d jag
forth to the public, the Church of Roans
.'she Aeicitheielllsl)„..s
over all persons, wherever it had power., . ,:ctdtiveyttforsid
Westminster would give an extelided,yVf,,n,ipat sot
Archbishop of the Roman Catholics Wee'
its etre'rell
give a limited and a defined jurisdictions
.eee tie''
titles important? They had the testimonfeeeo.-itseireLioe
revolution of 1830, as evidence that they evereeeehe
revolution Louis Phillipe was -called, -;0
not as King of France, but as King_ pg. the.
hear.) So in the case of BeigiumeAtle,gee
called King of the Belgians, and not • 10,tk-",^,-,
.V
. . it
0,1
1"