The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-27 00:00:00

LONDDN, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 27, 18:34.

tain Cie station of head over the men ?—and they all knew
there must be a head, in order that there might be feet to
go upon. He did not wish to say a word against the men
—men that they could not do without, for there was a
material connexion between master and man ; but in order
that that connexion should be kept up, good order must be
preserved. (Hear.) He thought the time had come
when, whatever sacrifice they might make, it was their
duty to stand firm upon that which they believed to be a
principle founded in justice (Hear, hear), and there-
fore he hoped every master would insist upon his
men signing the declaration which had been
issued, stating they did not belong to the unions, before
he permitted them to do a single stitch. What the masters
opposed was that which was founded in injustice. The
men now told them it was unreasonable for the masters to
require them to sign it, but his answer was, that they did
not consult the masters whether they should sign► the arti-
cles of the unions, but had departed from that rule of
conduct to do as they would wish to be done by, since
they had taken the opportunity of striking when they
thought the masters could not do without them.. He
cordially approved of all that had been done.`by the
committee. 1

Mr. MEYERS said, that when first the circular was sent
to him for the men to sign, he had taken it into • his
consideration whether they should sign it as it was sent to
him, or whether any alteration should be made in it ; but,
upon comparing it with the resolution passed at the general
meeting, he found that not one word of it could be altered
without going from that resolution. (Hear, hear.) Ete
had statad As his men, en laying it before them, that
he had always made it a rule for each man to
sign it, or if he did not choose to do so, to leave his
shop. (Cheers.) Out of thirty twenty-five had signed.
it, and the remaining five he had discharged. They
did not complain of it on the ground of tyranny,
but they said they could not sign it because they
had not seceded from the union. Subsequently,
however, those five men came to him and expressed
their willingness to sign it, and stated that they would
leave the union entirely if he would allow them to come to
work, upon which he took them before the other twenty_
five men, and there allowed them to sign it ; there could
be no doubt, therefore, that those five men who had come
into his employ had entirely withdrawn themselves from
the union. He trusted that no master would employ any
man that would not sign the declaration, because such as
refued to do so, he was convinced, hail not receded from
the union. He sincerely concurred in the report.
Mr. Joint SCAFE stated that, on Saturday morning
last, he had taken into his shop twenty-one men, whom he
had employed by the piece, and had asked them to sign
the declaration that they did not, individually or col-
lectively, belong to the union designated the " Na-
tional 'Trades' Union." They refused to do so, stating
that they only belonged to a union to protect their
own interests. He was going to discharge them all as
soon as they finished the work in hand (Cheers), because
they wanted to have it day-work, which he refused.
(Cheers.) There was oue thing, however, in which he
thought the committee had rather gone too far, and that
was in asking the foremen or dents to sign it. (Hear. )
He rather thought that in this respect they had gone too
far. (Cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes.") He was
not able to address the last general meeting, in conse-
quence of ill health ; but he had stated to two or three pre-
sent that the grand object would be to sow the seeds
of dissension among the men, and to get the good
men away from the bad. He did not know much about
the trade at the east end of the town, but he believed that
4,000 men could do the regular trade with regard to the
west end.

The CHAIRMAN informed Mr. Scafe that the question
was whether the report should be received and adopted,
and he was afraid the speaker was going rather out of
the way.
Mr. Scarz said he should like to know the number of
men that had signed the circular, because they would then
be able to form some conclusion as to whether it was
likely it would be signed by a majority of the tailors in
London.

The CHAIRMAN said:the moment the thing was ascer-
tained the meeting should have the information. The let-
ters were then coming in, and he hoped they would not
think it was intentionally withheld. (No, no.) With re-
gard to what Mr. Scale had said about the committee ex-
ceeding their duty in inserting the words " foremen and
clerzis" in the circular, he hoped the meeting would give
the committee credit for not doing anything rashly or has-
tily, and without having good grounds for proceeding upon.
He had himself discharged aforeman a hohad been with him
for twenty years, because he had refused to sign the decla.:
ration, although lie stated he did not belong to the trades
union. He (the Chairman) was quite satisfied that it was
from the quarter of the foremen much of the present
mischief had proceeded. (Hear, hear.) He would state
a hundred facts to prove that ; but he would just state
how a respectable member of the Committee was to be
treated tins morning. He had insisted upon his foreman
signing the declaration; his men, to the extent of sixteen
or seventeen, having signed it. The foreman refused ;he
was discharged; and now the men had just sent in an inti-
mation that they would all go with the foreman. (Hear. )
Did they want any farthtr facts, therefore, to prove that it
was from this source they were stabbed in the dark?
(Loud cheers.) Unless the meeting acted firmly and
resolutely in a good cause they would make themselves the
laughing stock of the whole country.
Mr. PLACE said he considered it was very impolitic to
ask the foremen or workmen to sign the declaration, and
he should therefore move as an amendment that that part
of the report be expunged, as, in his opinion, it would
only serve to keep alive vindictive feelings.
Mr. HUNTER regretted that the communication which
had been made by Mr. Leslie, had not been generally
known. On Friday morning several of the men came to
him from his house of call, and said that they no longer
belonged to the trades' union ; but they required that the
men then in his employment should be discharged, which
he of course refused. (Hear, hear.) The objection the
men generally had to sign the declaration was, that it
might be made a legal use of against them, and that the
master tailors might in future make their own terms with
the men. (Hear, hear.) He heard something said about
3s. for making a pair of trowsers. He (Mr. Hunter)
thought that would be a most unfair remuneration, and
if a regular system was established, all parties would be
benefited. (Hear, hear.) if one master paid 4s. a day,
and another the full price of six shillings it was said that
the man who paid liberally would suffer for the bad
prices of his neighbour. He proposed that the men be re-
quired to sign the declaration, with the understanding that
they should be paid six shillings a day, or sixpence an
hour by piece work. If some security of that sort be held
out to them most of the men would come forward and
sign it.

—The CHAIRMAN observed that that proposition had
been already made to the men.
Mr. Cox said most of the gentlemen had mistaken the
question before the meeting. The system of the men was
combination, that of the masters was free trade, and he trusted
they would abide by it. If the declaration was not signed
by the foremen, clerks, and all, it would be a complete
nullity. (Hear.) It was absurd to say that the men
were afraid that declaration would be stamped hereafter
and used to their disadvantage. The committee had done
themselves honour and credit by proposing it, and he was
satisfied the meeting would abide by it. ( Hear.) It was
impossible that such a combination for the purpose of
factitiously raising the price of wages would succeed, and
he begged to give the report his cordial support.
Mr. JACKSON said he had been 47 years in the trade,
and he could state with truth that he never evinced any
disposition to oppress the men, but the contrary. He did
not believe that such disposition existed among the masters.
It was a matter of humanity to the men, in his opinion, to
require of them to sign that declaration, for it was well
known that they were robbed and plundered by a set of
fellows who were leading them on under the pretence of
benefiting them. The protection of the masters would
enable the workmen to combat that tyranny. (Cheers. )
When he had first come into the room, he had some doubts
as to the propriety of requiring the men to sign the decla-
ration ; but these doubts had been completely removed by
what he had since heard, and he was now decidedly of
opinion that all the workmen should be required to sign it.
(Cheers.) He would propose that the foremen, clerks,
and all, should be included, because, if these were left out,
that meeting would be departing from the main principle
of the arrangement which they had entered into. He
thought that as the masters had come to their present
determination they should strictly keep to it.
Mr. CHAMBERS said that one thing had struck him
particularly, and that was, whether the masters had asked
the persons to whom they gave out work, and the females
twbo
othrn theseoeny
jon employed
ear whether
:)Fe the
ir
onhs uisnbatnhdes
trade had
hbeeehnadmonreeveinr
given convenieonoctedanby wytohrk, and allestrike than
thea mennhims thatelf,as
had come to him (and these within the last seven
or eight days) amounted to only four. If the
meeting was determined to abide by the resolution, he
would propose that they should include all those persons
to whom work was given out. (Hear. )
The CHAIRMAN begged to explain that the declaration
embraced every person in the employment of the masters,
and it was their intention to act not only up to the letter
but the spirit of that declaration. (Loud cheering.)
Mr. CHAMBERS was glad that explanation had been gi-
ven, as many of the gentlemen present did not previously
Understand the resolution that had been come to.
The CHAIRMAN said before any other gentlemen ad-

dressed the meeting, he wished to appri e them of a most
important document that had just been sent to him. It
was, that the men in two houses of business connected with
them would sign the declaration immediately after the
meeting. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
111 r. RoataTs observed, that no man could be a more
decided enemy to the trades' unions than himself. He
had attended all the meetings of the masters, and had en-
deavoured to act up to the letter and the spirit of their
resolutions. One of the resolutions recommended by the
committee was, that persons who employed but few men,
should endeavour to induce the men to secede from the
unions and the houses of call at the old prices. (No, no.)
The CHAIRMAN said Mr. Roberts was quite right.
When it was found that delegates from the trades' unions
attended these houses of call for the purposes of tampering
with the men, it was then recommended to employ them
without going to houses of call.
Mr. ROBERTS resumed—Acting upon that suggestion,
every one of his old men were now at work. It was
true that he did not employ many, but such as he did had
constant work, and had been with him for the last seven
Years. He had proposed to them to leave the unions and
return to their work, and having done so he did not feel
himself in a situation to put the question to them of whe-
ther they would sign the declaration. They had
returned to their work upon the old terms, and he did not
think, under the circumstances, that he was justified in
putting the question to them.
Mr. LA NF: stated that he was precisely in the same
situation with regard to his men as the last speaker. On
Wednesday he sent for his men, and said he was deter-
mined to have them at work on Monday, to which they
agreed ; and upon the suggestion of his foreman they con-
sented to commence work on the Thursday on the former
terms. (Hear, hear.) He always paid his men by the
piece
; he employed women to make waistcoats and old
men to make trousers. All this he told the men, and they
agreed to come to work. He therefore felt that he could
not ask his men to sign the declaration ; and indeed he
had not yet received any copies of the declaration which it
was required of them to sign.
It was here explained by one gentleman that some had
been sent to Mr. Lane.
The CHAIRMAN here requested that no gentleman
would leave the meeting before they had come to a deci-
sion upon the motion, in order that it might be ascertained
who supported and who opposed it, as it now became a
question of the utmost importance.
Mr. LANE then proceeded, and said he had come to the
their them.
exertions, i gave
meeting prepared to oppose the proposition now before
vad en
v ery
certainlygreat
thewcrheadtithetoha,i
hecaormd committee for
much
shaken his previous determination ; but before it should
have an entire effect upon him, he should wish to
be satisfied that the documents, said to have been
issued by the trades' union, and signed by John Brown
and others, were authentic, and also whether the men
generally acknowledged them. If that were the
case then he thought the masters ought to adhere to the
recommendations of the committee If the documents
were not authentic, he for one could not call on his men
to sign the declaration. That the men had seceded from
the unions and from the strike was evident, from their
having been employed on piecework. (Cries of " No,
no.") His own men had, because they had consented to
work 12 hours a day, and at piecework, which they had
previously refused yto do. He was therefore bound to
suppose that they had seceded from the union. His men
had denied that they belonged to the trades' unions as they
were called in general terms, and said that they only be-
longed to their own union appertaining to their own trade.
He was therefore placed in a difficult position after getting
his men to work on the usual terms ; all his men received
365. a week, and now all he wanted was to know if the
documents to which he alluded were authentic, for he felt
that the masters being united were bound to go together.
Ile still had some doubts whether it was not an arbitrary
act to compel the men to sign the declaration, and unless
he were satisfied on the points on which he wished for in-
formation, he should not think of asking his men to sign
it. (Cries of " Question," and " you are ton long.") He
felt that he could make an agreement with his own men,
but he could not undertake to satisfy eighteen thousand
men. (Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said he had paid great attention to 1111
the observations that had been made. He had felt ex-
tremely loth to interrupt any gentleman, because he wished
that a full, fair, and free discussion of the suVect should
take place. The whole of the observations of Mr. Lane
resolved itself into this, viz., that he was satistiA his own
men had left the trades' unions, because they had told him
so. ( Hear, hear.) Now he, the Chairman, could not
shut his eyes to that circumstance. He might be as desi-
rous as any one else to believe what his men told him; but
when he found a power at work seeking for assist-
ance, and, also, delegates from all parts of the
kingdom in favour of the trades' unions ( Hear), and
that that had been the case for seven days in the
month of February ; also that the same individual was then
engaged to carry that object into effect, as the one who
signed the order for all the men to leave the shops. He
must say that he did not believe that the men had left the
union. (hear, hear.) As regarded the documents and
the manner in which the committee had got possession of
them, that was a very unusual question to ask, and it
would not not be prudent for the committee to answer it.
( Hear, hear.) There was no doubt they were authentic;
if they were not it must be supposed that the committee
had coined them. They had been put forward by the
unions themselves, and the meeting was now to judge of
their merits. (Hear.)
Mr. LA NE said he was not quite satisfied with the
Chairman's explanations. He had no intention of saying
that the committee had coined the documents, nor did he
wish to know where the committee got them, but he
wanted to know whether the men supported the statements
they contained, and sanctioned them.
The Cu A I a:MAN said, that by the original document a
sort of Pioneer was made the official organ of the Conso-
lidated Trades' Union, and from that official organ came
an order that no man or woman in the united kingdom
should sign the declaration. ( Hear, hear.) That order
was signed by Douglas.
Mr. AreiNsosr, of Regent-street, stated, that when he
came to the meeting his feelings were opposed to the com-
pelling of any of the men to sign the declaration, but he
confessed from what he had since heard his mind had been
greatly altered. (Cheers.) He now found that no man or
woman in the kingdom was to sign the declaration, and
therefore he had changed his opinion. (Hear, hear.)
He was a friend to liberty ; but such very extraordinary
demands had been made by the unions on the master tailors
that he would cordially join in carrying the resolutions of
the meeting into effect. (Cheers. )
Mr. THOMPSON, of Cork-street, said, on this day month
the meeting pledged their honour to support all the
men who seceded from the unions, and now there was an
amendment proposed, calling on them to withdraw that
support. (Hear, hear.) He thought that the ingenuity
of man could not have devised any plan that would tend to
give more support to their enemies than that. ( Hear,
hear.) More than 2,000 men he had understood had
come back under that pledge of support, and the meeting
could not afford it them in any better way than by sigring
the declaration. All the men who chose to return to their
work were therefore on an equality, and he saw no reason
in the world why the men should object to sign it. The
question, in his opinion, did not admit of a single doubt,
and if he were to vote against it, he should conceive him-
self to be a party to the dishonourable course which was ta-
ken by the trades' unions. (Cheers.)
Mr. REID said that, as one of the committee, he was
obliged to acknowledge that in taking that situation upon
himself he was aware that he took one that was not a light
one, but rather of a most onerous character. He had, how-
ever, been most fully supported in its duties by the kind-
ness and unanimity of his fellow-committeemen, and by the
respect with which they had been treated by the trade
generally. He was most happy to see the great attention
with which the meeting had heard every former
speaker, and he trusted the same favour would be ex-
tended to him while he addressed himself to the remarks
which fell from the worthy gentleman who proposed the
amendment. He had said that he was well pleased
with all the proceedings of the committee, up to
the time they proposed the declaration. He should have
wondered if any one could have found fault, because, till
that time, they had done nothing but most anxiously
watch the signs of the times, and had most studiously
avoided doing anything that might, in any possible way,
aggravate the ill feelings that were unhappily so widely
spread among the men. The first question thathe wouldput
to the meeting, through the chairman, was, Did the men,
when they gave symptoms of returning to their work, do
so from any apparent conviction on their part that they
had acted wrong_or rather had they not merely obeyed
that most strong law of nature, stern necessity? ( Cheers,
and cries of " Yes, yes.") Yes, he said, it was very
convenient for the men to continue to wage war against
the masters so long as the supplies lasted, but as soon as
those failed then they returned, and said they were willing
to serve again ; but was not that easily seen through?
could any one doubt that it was for their own convenience
and not that of the masters ? The great difference now
from former strikes was, that in the present instance the
men had returned at the bidding of the council of the
Consolidated Trades Union, whereas on former occasions
they had come back willingly, and without the intention
of merely supplying themselves with means again to strike
a more secure blow. (Cries of " No, no. )
The CHAIRMAN said they ought to remember that on
the last strike the men did not get their object, namely,