The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

RAJA OF SATTARA.

Mr. C. ANSTEY was not going to bring old topics before
the House, but a new topic, which had arisen within the last
six months. A petition had been presented by an Hon.
Member (Mr. Hume) in relation to an infant, the lawful
heir of the Raja of Sattara; which petition, -though printed
and sent to Mr. Greville, had not been duly brought before
the Privy Council by Mr. Greville, the Clerk of the Council.
The petition was to obtain the settlement of claims not of a
political character, but to obtain restitution of piivate pro-
perty belonging to the late Raja of Sattara, taken posses-
sion of by the British Government, on the mistaken assump-
tion that the Raja died without heirs. The infant, the sub-
ject of the petition, who had been adopted and recognised as
the heir of the Raja, sent a petition to the Privy Council,
which petition was not presented by Mr. Greville, who in a
note informed the petitioner " that the matter of the peti-
tion being of a political nature, did not come within the
jurisdiction of her Majesty's Privy Council." This proceed-
ing of Mr. Greville was in the nature of a denial of justice,
and the conduct of Mr. Greville called for the consideration
of the House ; and with the view of bringing the matter un-
der the notice of Parliament he should move a resolution to
the effect " that the matters of complaint set forth in the pe-
tition of the infant Raja deserved the serious consideration
of that House." He contended that the petition contained
nothing at all relating to political questions, but referred
solely to matters of private and pecuniary interest. But,
assuming that the petition did relate to political matters, it
would be found, on reference to the Act of Parliament, that
it was competent to her Majesty's Privy Council to enter-
tain petitions which had relation to political matters. As
he could not understand the course taken by the Clerk of
the Privy Council, or believe that Lord Lansdowne was
aware of the letter written by Mr. Greville, he would move
to call attention to the alleged obstruction offered to the
claims of the infant Raja of Sattara i❑ the denial of a hear-
ing before the Court of Privy Council, complained of in the
petition to this House of the next friend of the said infant,
presented on the 14th inst.; and to move a resolution on the
subject.
The motion not having been seconded fell to the ground.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL.
. _

- ----- - ----- -- -
The order of the day for the adjourned "debate having been
read,
Mr. BLEWITT wished to make one or two observations
on this most impolitic measure. Ile regretted that onthis
question the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had
avowed feelings and opinions utterly inconsistent with the
s with great
liberal tenor of his previous career.
sorrow that be had witnessed the Noble Lolrtd was
ceed to
forward
on this question, and, in the sober garb of woe., pro
rake up all the crimes imputed to PsPacY in the early
times of our history. He for One wocuelrdemnoliebse praactpisaerdtybt;
brand as mummeries any religioous
y Aftera ny
bastic tone of Dr. Wise-
man'shisfellow-ye. The b
manifesto had not in the I ua rnbvei sdi t el di m 1;
reading it he slept as soundly
purgatorial penance or inquisitorial
apprehensions of either purga alit
any insult was intended
mabaseftordei,at
torture. He could not believe
to'`
v the Constitution, by the
to the Queen, or any
ilritioaur-egehpta_not to be forgotten that the
late act of the Pope. -1. church, incomplete unless
Romish Church was a.,:ivrittoi
•h'respect to our own Church, he
it had a hierarchy. had been reading the other day
found in a work which he
ecgriri!son of Sierra Leone, that episcopal
by the chaplain of t that colony; that consequently
jurisdiction did not . 15
the churches and churchyards were at present unconse-
srtyatieedr
tthat
spiritualwants of the cole-
crated. The author
was absolutely necess
so with regard to a few
nists. If that were s fora
portion of our colonists, was it
not equally necessarynail
lion souls? Th _community num-
bering nearly
clear., The Hon. Member
. such a case was . work
in in his on Church and State, affirmed
sits of Oxford,
clan conscientiously believing his religion
that a Mahonae ,
naturally desire .
be from God, would. its extension, and would
be Jus • tified in using all proper and legitimate means for that
end. Was the sincere Catholic to be denie t the same right?
He would ask any candid person to place himself in the po-
sition of the Pope, and then say whether circumstances did
not justify him in the step he had taken. ' Let such a person
believe his religion to be from God - let him be told that
many had been converted, and that many more were on the
point of conversion—let him be informed of the many courte-
sies paid to Roman Catholic bishops in Ireland—let him read
in ~ Hansard" the many speeches in favor of Roman Catholics
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—let him con-
sider all these things, and then say whether circmstances did
not relieve the Pope from imputations of intending insult and
injury when he appointed bishops in this country. He did
not mean to say that the Pope could appoint bishops entitled
to sit in the House of Peers with temporal rights attached
to their bishoprics. The bishops whom the Pope had ap-
pointed claimed none of these things, yet the Noble Lord
maintained that their appointment was an insult to the
Queen and an aggression on the independence of the nation.
He was as loyal as any other subject of her Majesty; but he
did not in this instance feel himself called on to join in pass-
ing a law against imaginary affronts and problematical mis-
chief.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for the city of
Oxford had said a great deal about the introduction of the
canon law, but he was of the opini,,n expressed by Sir M. Hale,
that the strength of the canon law in this kingdom could
only exist either by consent of the Parliament, or in some
particular cases by immemorial usage, and that it would no
more be binding here than our law would in Italy. If the
present Bill were passed it would certainly be evaded. An
attempt was made in 1748 to force the Scotch Highlanders
to wear breeches, but they evaded the law by going clad as
before, and carrying the breeches over their shoulders.—(A
laugh.) Some equally subtle evasion would be found to de-
feat the object of this Bill, and as it would only "create irr-
tation and annoyance, he readily supported the motion that
it be read a second time that day six months.
Sir R. LOPES said that but for the very strong speech of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth against the
Bill he should not perhaps have troubled the House with any
observations on this occasion. But living in the immediate
neighbourhood of the town represented by the lion. and
Learned Gentleman, and knowing the almost unanimous
feeling of the inhabitants of that town, he felt called upon to
say that the sentiments which had been expressed by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman were totally at variance with
these of the hulk, if not with those of the whole of the con-

stitnency, and the great mass of the populatlon.-4Hear.)
the more especially as the Pope had included the principal
towns of Devon in one of his newly-created bishoprics,. with"
out having taken the slightest trouble to ascertain whether
he had any locus standi in the matter. The establishment
of any such ecclesiastical arrangements by a foreign power
was not for an instant to be compared with ecclesiastics
arrangements made within our own borders by
communities who adhered to no foreign power. If Ro-
man s'atholics would disconnect themselves from Rome'
and own no other foreign supremacy, there would tie an The
to the contest, and no legislation would be necessary. The
religious
arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth
r
had been so promptly disposed of by the Hon. and I,eerne
Member for the city of Oxford,'that he should not now octant
s!
them. As a representative of one of the most imp
oste
counties of England, he must state on the pelt of the inba-s
bitants —and more especially on behalf of the inhabitants of
Plymouth—that so far from no wishing legislation ono his
question, they were utterly disapp inted at the inadeclseY
of the measure brought forward by the Government. (11c8r,i
hear.) The first declaration of the Noble Lord at the hea
of the Government, and his statement in introducing the
Bill, had given much satisfaction. He believed that pla
oble Lord was sincer, and that he would have propos ea!
e very different measure if he had been allowed to have his ovrwn
.
way in the matter.—(Hear.) Other legislation
mised if the present Bill should be found ineffectual
best motto was principiis obsta. The language 0f the Pope
Do.
proved the unalterable and domineering principle o,c.e j'
mish Church, which required implicit obedience to lts,,,
su-
premacy. The Noble Lord seemed to think that the noust-'2,
;vibaisitPt h e
would not be satisfied with the Bill as atfirst proposed.
or
then could the Noble Lord imagine that they would be
were
fled with it now, that the more stringent enactments
,ta,
omitted from it? He should vote for this econd readasl
.7g,
but with a hope that the more salutary paof the me ma
would be restored in Committee.
Mr. WALTER said he had a similar excuse for
for the
himself as the Hon. Member who had just sat down,
made
__se
name of the town which he represented had been ;se
of by the Pope to designate one of the Papal bishoprics.eee _dsato
rose for the purpose of protesting against what h
.01 me the
tlOa 011
be an act of unwarranted aggression and usurps_
n because
presenting
part of the Pope. He called it an act of ressi!uman Cs.
it violated the provisions of the Act by which
and an ees of
tolics were admitted to seats in that House, anaass.,__ .5,,,„,
usurpation because under no circumstances was the
justified in annexing territorial titles to •le
the course of •
the
office he might create in this country.
debate the clause to which referenceln
had
d sit l
dozen
made, in the Act of 1829, had been mistlnc-c t it anyperson
times. In that clause it was stipulated .tha
should assume or
other than the persons authorised by law s •n England or
ari been so often.
use any title of archbishop, bishop, or den,bie
liable to a
Ireland, he should for every such hat the clause
penalty of 1001. He had heard it contended t.
a read ce"-
referred only to existing dioceses;
bat
havihgad not found
folly not only the Act, but he debate, he _ . y poi
the word " existing" or any equivalent word 1 Was
that a
of the discussion, or of the Act. The maxim
a_,,
.. he
offence
penal clause ought to be interpreted strictly ;83D1,"'Wes
The
found no reference in the clause to particular se.o,n.sw
entitled to infer that it had a general sign
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon Act, and
the part he had taken in the Charitable Bequests a _ diss
had asked what was the meaning of " officiating 1 ;eons
trict," but having a diocese? or " superintend other in.
gregation," but being a parish priest?
In
ahat-he de-
stance, in which the Right lion, Baronet said t
of
murred to the right of archbishops or bishopliti°;:he
ihilacdafireferred to
Romish Church claiming titles from certain I
Member
vas ced. The speech of the Honourable and Learned that a
supplied the best answer to what he hadrieecsaously ad-
for Plymouth had been referred to, and be admitted an
more able speech on that side of the question it Ton had
sible to imagine. The Hon. and Learned pit
time
asked whether the first bishops of the Church, ill, Llaking
of the early Roman Emperors, invaded any sight Da'
unstion
the titles which they enjoyed? But that
asked, Was
might be met by another. What, it might be Is, Chris'
the notion which the first Roman Emperors had 0
__seore
tian bishop? The only notion which the early -am'
mtable,
could have of a bishop must have been as of a pecr' ise ocs, whose
forlorn being—the leader of a perhaps despised s
ersecuted.
only claim to distinction was a priority of being, bishop had
ti
He contended that in those early ages the tle ol , it might
no politi
cal gnificance whatever. Vey different a_
which
be after thereognition of Christianity
by the St te,'
then would find itself called on to exercise considerauilteioebonoi
troll over these bishops. Immediately after the
reeegnde itself
Christianity by the State the influence of the laity m¢ de
felt, and from that time to the present the laity, ter tv•
oice
by the civil power, had always exercised a concurrent, He
with that of the Church in the appointment of bishops.
d to take
believed that if the measure of the Pope was allowe- I
effectdo
the dominions of the Queen would be the on y,
_..
minions in the world in which the full , development l t."l
clesiastical functions was allowed vithout the
by the laity.— (Hear, hear.) His quarrel with the pe-
w.r__
as not for his claim of spiritual authority, but for his wge
rence with the territorial dominion of the Crown' the
objected to the form which was used on that occasion at
most intolerable expression of spiritual dominion and 4 or
gance possible. It was true forms were but the shadows ,
realities, but although this country might be in no danger o•
least Ckitore.
receiving any injury at the hands of Rome, still it was bunt!
to •protest against any extension of the power Of that
nt
Church whieh did not want intentions, at least, to protlrd
its encroachments. He did not agree with an Hon. a"
.hat
Learned Member who had already addressed the Houses '-
the Church of Rome or its members should be allowed tc
decide for themselves that very difficult and delicate o°9'
tion of what constituted the difference between civil and reit
gious affairs.—(Hear.) If they were allowed to decide Who,
were the limits of spiritual jurisdiction, and the nature °`
territorial titles, the Romish Church should be permitted tc,
decide also on matters of a mixed spiritual and tempers!
character. He considered that the State owed to the profea-_,
sors of all religions protection from the abuse of the authority
s
of their superiors.—( Hear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffield
said it was only the submission of one man's mind to Or
ther, and asked what business was that of any one else's'
Now he (Mr. Walter) thought that was neither a humane or
a just view of the question. He thought we had no right W
refuse people the consolation of spiritual advice for the es'
ercise of their temporal duties.—(Hear, hear.) In In
_se'''
countries abroad the State exercised a spiritual tong
over the Roman Catholic Church. In Austria, for exansple:
no sentence of excommunication could be carried into oce:
against any person unless the State was satisfied that
the offence committed was merely of a spiritual alas"
racter. The Honourable Member here referred to, an
read, a couple of long extracts from a work by Dr. Twists 00
the nature of the appointment of bishops, which the wriyiter
contended was a temporal act and not a spiritual one. 01
could not forget the step which the Noble Lord at the bee
of the Government had taken in respect of the present ag'
gression, nor the agitation which that step had given rise tes
That agitation would open the eyes of the Roman Ca holler
in a way in which they had not been hitherto open,ed**.
(Hear)—to an important fact, namely, the deep-rooted Kr
testantism of this country. - (Hear.) It might be practicabr,
true that the Pope might believe, and did believes that t
country was on the eve of a great Catholic mOvementl
(Hear.) Even amongst Roman Catholic's possessing Plei:i
information and knowledge of the world, 'there had preveLie
a great mistake with respect to the religious feeling of
110
country. He had had the observation made by Rom
Catholics to himself that the acts of a few bewildered clergr
men and weak-minded laymen had been mistaken for st Dr-4
liberate intention, on the part of the Protestant him?Yes's'n
England, to abandon that strong position it had 11 tile;
maintained with regard to the Church of Rome
hear.) The agitation upon that question would
eyes to the great mistake they had made, and tea a l're,
Pope to be more cautious in future in trusting the
"P 0(
sentations of those who brought him intelligencteele
the condition of this country. It would also
out
the Roman Catholics to be more careful in carrYing e
their system of proselytising throughout the countrY,
__
opeac.tb.ehire
system which he thought was a calamity to be avoided, Doei
cause of its evil consequences and results. If the peoPics,
this country were once possessed of the idea that there es't
isted any danger that an unmarried Roman Catholic eties,
would be set up side by side with their own parody
clergy men—if they thought there was any danger that thl
death-beds of their fellow-countrymen would be intercepted
by such a person -- if there was any danger of confessioa
being generally introduced, or of their daughters being
' er__.
duced into convents—if the people of England, in fine, wee'
not under the impression that the law would protect tiler,
in such cases, they would be inclined to take the law in
their own hands.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member here
briefly referred to the operation of the measure with respec!
to Ireland, but in so indistinct a tone that we could Dm'
clearly catch his words. He then went on to say that sc
long as the Protestant constitution in Church and State coil:
filmed in this empire, so long should he resist every attealPt
his memorable letter, might have produced a nn Acir ,e.
at encroachment upon it. , Although the Noble Lordft%
more worthy of the expectations raised by it, be s'esst
Walter) would support the present Bill in the hope t r
the objects it had in view might be further And b tine
carried out on a future occasion when it went into Co '
mittee.—(Hear.) .' - ss y.',sing the
Mr. ANSTEY said a reason allegeefee su
present Bill was that it would induce every Man C54,4,,,t such
however small, in Ireland, to leave that cOnntii. who-1."- sup'
PPr,,s7pertir
a sentiment should have been received by those tbat it ,
ported the Hon. Member was not astonishing, s.e, It
should not have been repudiated by other*
the vats,
could not but have an exasperating effect -o s'
and for his part he protested against such
sit nisters of the
he
Cronindd not think were shared in by the as'
lf oppose them
. If he thought so he would not on
measure they
upon the present, but upon every other papa
t and most annoy:-
might introduce. It was one of the greates
t Bill that it
ing misfortunes of discussions upon the
Presento recriminates
it imposed upon its opponents the temptation
snet!ments, which
ainst them'
by retorting with effect the accusations brought Isather Eus-
selves on its supporters. If one party had their _
__, with
tace, the others had their vicars of Wrexhill. sNew_„„tie.
respect to the pr sent agitation, he found that evepa V"
-,, sectioll
man came forward, in the name of his own particu
all
suss
of the Church, to protect himself and party from
lead on 00
picion in the matter, by being the first to lead on _ewe,
people of this country, in the chase of the conircon t!...tit
the Church of Rome, in the hope that the houndes_tm?o:ght
follow carrion and not see the real game. And. h ; s,si
the Hon. Members for Oxford and Cambridge
edaceil—
s, ueoplee
themselves if they supposed that in directing, from the
minds to that matter they misled the public mind Iron
abuses said to exist in the Church to which they
n a former,
The Hon. Member for Oxford city had show,cl; he was
speech of his—not his late one—by what flew" Church. The
animated with respect to the Roman Catholic
een the
Hon. Member would place in the hands O bishopsin this
power exercised by the Pope of appointing lace
power
country and in the colonies, and would Place belonged.
without the interference of Parliament. catholic
that if the Pope attempted to regulate the Roman . the
religion, not only in England alone, but in any pqt of Ile
Queen's dominions, he violated the Queen's prerogative.
_,..„,.
(Mr. Anstey) denied that. Everybody knew that th (Jr:,
h ch 01 -D'a,
ecclesiastic .1 law was strictly local. The C ur so
He also contended
land was the Church of this realm only. The gem of
Catholic Church, every dissenting church, every forde to
Christianity, every form of religious belief not oppos
ato
the laws of God and nature, enjoyed as sound a 8 lead
in her Majesty's foreign dominions as the Church of Rnsg ,ebe
itself; and the Papal bull and the letters patent or
_it,
Crown rested there upon the same foundation, bindingoudy.
upon the consciences of men as they felt impelled to oDe
ence or otherwise. The Hon. Member for Oxford said ther
were Roman Catholics who protested against the Pt 6_7:: 0
the Hon. Member pru
aggression of the Pope ; but it was not because they we's.
ready to accept the tyranny whieh
es _,O
posed. The 'Sill before them.consisted of two claus ',lwo
in ti the other in fiduro. He could not agree I.° of
pra s e a ,
of Scot"
Bill which was to legislate only on the barren question
titles. Did not the episcopal titles of the Church
~,,ny
land afford as much reason as the Church of Ireland ? 0
should there be an exception at all ? If there waseto,,,b,,e.
an exemption, lie thought it was with Ireland thre,l'','d
nister ougt to begin. The cases of two bishoprics in I r_use
had been alluded to, those of Rosa and Galway, but in tro!.
case the Pope bad only interfered so far as to sanction 0
,a,!mo'
had been already done in Ireland. With respect to lt,s
course taken in the present matter in England, he confess's;
lie did not approve of it.—(Hear.) He thought it Wf,'
wrong for the Pope to have taken the initiative before tu