The Sun.
London, England, 1856-06-14 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice that he should, on Monday, proceed with the
Army Estimates.

TORTURE IN INDIA.

On the motion for the adjournment,of the house,
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE presented a petition from
India complaining of the mat-administration of justice iu
India by the infliction of torture.
After some remarks from Sir E. PERRY,
The motion of adj-mrnment was agreed to.
ST. JAMES'S-PARK.

Lord PALMERSTON—I rise for the purpose of pro-
posing to the house two votes connected with the same
matters, in respect of which this day week it rejected a
vote by a large majority—l mean the passage through
St. James's-park. That vote referred to two objects ;
the one the passage for carriages, the other the passage
for pedestrians by a suspension bridge. It is not for me
to inquire into the motives which led the house to reject
,he vote, which had for its object the carrying out of the
proposal which the house had expressed a great desire to
see accomplished. I imagine that with regard to the pas
sage for carriages the house objects to the expense of
pulling down the German chapel and rebuilding it else-
where. (Hear, hear.) If a better passage could be
mado, and at a less expense, and that, with regard to the
foot bridge, the plan proposed was objected to. It is my
intention to propose two votes—the one for the pas-
sage for carriages, the other for the suspension bridge.
The two will be entirely separate, and, therefore,
the house can deal with them as they think fit.
When the house rejected that vote, her Majesty, always
anxious to make any sacrifice for the public convenience,
immediately expressed her desire to give up a portion of
the gardens of St. James's Palace, in order that there
might be a straight roadway from the iron gates now
existing between Marlborough-house and St. James's
Palace, and thence into the park. The Queen most gra-
ciously, and of her own accord, suggested that the pre-
sent inconvenience should be obviated by railing off a
portion of the palace gardens. The estimate for that
purpose—namely, the making the road for giving a
larger footway, for rebuilding the wall of Marlborough-
house court, for rebuilding the wall of St. James's Pa-
lace garden, which is to be thrown back, putting up
lamps, &c., 4,5001. Ido not mean to conceal from the
house that that estimate appears to me to be a rather
large one for the work which is to be done. But
those who are professionally employed must be the
best judges, and I can assure the house that my
right honourable friend at the head of the Board of
Works wi'l see that the work is done by cmtract,
and paid for admeasuretuent acc rdiog to the price=
which rule in London for works of this kind. Wick re-
gard to the foot-bridge, the house, I doubt not, will bear
in mind that, as the first vote is for the convenience of
those who ride in carriages, there is another class of per-
sons who walk on their feet ; for we have heard of some
people who walk on their heals. (Laughter.) At the
same time I think that it would be a great convenience
to a large portion of the public to have a passage made
for them across the water, so as to connect Westminster
with the northern parts of London. It would be well
also for those who frequent the gardens for recreation, ii
they were not so entirely cut off by that piece of water
from ono part of the park %hen they are in the other. I
should think likewise, but that is a matter for the housein
which they will please their own taste, that a light iron
bridge, so far from injuring the beauty of the gardens,
would-rather be ornamental. But that is a matter with
Which the house will deal as they think proper. The esti-
mate for the carriage-way is 4,5001., and that for the
bridge 3,5001. lie concluded by moving that a vote 01
4,5001. should be granted for the opening up of a way
through St. James's-park into Pimlico.
Mr. L. DAVIES said that an engineer in the metro-
polis had offered to him to do the roadway and put up
the fencing, to the satisfaction of any one appointed to
superintend the works, for a sum of 2,500/. As to the
railing proposed to be placed in front of th- Ambassa-
_ .

does-me, be feared it would be found very inconve-
nient, and would prevent the number of troops beinv
broug':t there which might be dedrable. He thought
3,000/. would be amply sufficient for the execution of
these works, and should move that the vote should be
reduced ti) that sum.

Lord PALMERSTON said that 4,500/. was merely
named in the vote as a maximum. A lower tender would
,)e willingly received.

Mr.. Tilt having stated several points in which the
pres.nt differed from the former estimates in order to
account for the •lisorepancy in their amounts,
Sir J. TROL LOPE said that he wished to know whe-
ther the 2-stbs of an acre to be taken under the present
plan from the gardens, and added to the grounds of
Marlborough-house, were to be enclosed by means of a
dead wall, or whether that land was to form part of the
approach t the park, with an ornamental railing in front?
Lord R. C ROSVENOR expressed his regret that after
the decided manner in which that vote was re jicted last
Friday night, the same proposition skould have been
again brought before the house. It appeared t) him to be
a distinction without a difference. A shorter route to
Pimlico than that which the present plan proposed to pro-
vide already existed, if it was only thrown open to the
trAffic of the metropolis. All that was necessary was to
pot up a board requiring carriages going that way to pass
at a foot-pace. Cabs were, in fact, at one time permitted
to g►o throo.th after dusk, which only increased the danger
which was supposed to attend the passage during daylight.
He would not, h ewever, divide the house on the question.,
Mr. STAFFORD asked whether it was the intention
of the authorities to impose any new instructions with
regard to this new road ; whether the existing gates
we e to be removed, and whether the new roads Were to
be open to carriages of all descriptions ?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the new road
would be open to carriages of all descriptions except
carts and waggons. There would be no necessity for
the removal of the existing gates. The roadway re-
ferred to by hie noble friend was only 15 feet wide at
the corner, and further round it was only 19 feet wide,
and therefore he must consider it a very dangerous
road.

Sir J. PAKINGTON wished to know whether the
plan embraced the erection of a lodge at the iron gates ?
Sir B. HALL confessed that, when he first received
the estimates, he was astonished at their amount. He
intended, however, to superintend the execution of the
work as closely, and have
,it done as econoinicaly as
possible. About a quarter of an acre of land would be
taken from the Palace gardens, and a little more than
that would be enclosed within the garden at Marl-
borough-house.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD said that he w'slud
to know whether it was intended to keep up the exclu-
siveness of the passage through the Horse Guards ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied
that a passage had ever been allowed to cabs along St.
James's-park, as bad been stated by Lord R. Grosvenor.
The permission granted during the Exhibition only ex-
tended to private carriages.
Mr. KINNAIRD a'-,lted whether the public could be
allowed to pass through the Stable•yard pending the
carrying nut this arrangement?

Lord-PALMERST6N Raid that the new passage
would 1 o given up at all times to the public.

Mr. L.-DAVIES withdrew his motion.

Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that in looking after
eclnomy the appearance of the works to be executed
should be regarded. He thought that this was the most
important o' all the plans which bad been brought for-
ward for opening the park. Ele would suggest, how-
ever, that the wall to be put up should not be a dead
wall, as that would contribute very little to the orna
ment of the place.

The amendment having been withdrawn,
Dr. MICH EL L pr -4e,ted against so large a sum being
drawn from the taxi-s of the country for a private object,
and fn. the gratification of public individuals. (Hear,
la.eehter, and cries of " Divide."
Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked whether it was the in-
tention of the Government to rive the public a similar
privileee along Constitution-hill ?
br*;.bil.greent.orilfA:oLt.Las:slres. (Ciies of "Divide.")
•-,%:11,1
thete was agreed so.
.vote for 3,500/. for the erection of a suspension
in vh.ejhar)rnuesse,sciti,pvairdk.:ede,gv,e,rhsenovtehretnheumwbaeterrs
winertheLinclosure
Majority—fo
For the vote
Against it
Ttlo MATES.rno.ve t e _1_287
r the vote
_9587
supplemental
Sir Cs.
navy e • • y Period of the •
session he
took four or five naval votes on Recount
t i 1 I'm' lOt eOs DN
account, several in
full. He should not, therefere, address
to the house on th6se that were granted
inyfubilsebrru-attioons
fine them to those taken on account. The numberc mf
men voted for the first three months of the year was
76,000, and he proposed to take a vote for 56,000 men----
more for the remaining nine months of the year. The
reduction of men this year on that of last appeared to he
20,000, but in reality it was but 14 000, because the full
number employed last year was 6,000 less than the num-
ber vot4-d. Of the number of men required, 16 000 were
marines, and when his predecessor in office raised the
marines to that force he expressed an opinion that it
ought never to be reduce i below that number, and in
that opinion he (Sir C. Wood) concurred, consequently

no reduction of that branch of the service would be
made. (Hear, hear.) The experience of the late war
bad shown how desirable it was to keep up the Royal
Marine Artillery, and it was proposed, by way of increas-
ing that force, to transfer 250 men from the battalion
c nnpenies of Marines to the Royal Marine Artillery.
The number of seamen, including boys, would be 40,000,
which was a larger number certainly than was ordina-
rily maintained in times of peace ; but he thought that,
under present circumstances, it would be inexpedient to
reduce the nurnher of the navy under what was now
asked. He did not feel any apprehension of a speedy
war, because the good sense of the two countries would
prevent it ; but there were existing circumstances which
rendered it impossible for the Government to reduce the
navy this year to the condition of a permanent peace es-
tablishment. One reason was that the men and ships
on foreign stations had been lately reduced, in conse-
quence of the late war, and many of them kept in com-
mission beyond their proper time, and in order to bring
them to a proper state of efficiency, and relieve them, a
number of men would be required for a considerable
period, in each instance a double quantity, to allow the
reliefs to go out and the relieved to come home.
Another reason why the number of men could
not be taken less was, that the reduction of seamen
should Le as gradual and slow as possible, so as
nno way to bear hard on the men. (Hear.) And when
they remembered the manner in which these men came
forward at their country's call in time of need and dan-
ger, ho thought the committee would agree with him that
they were entitled to consideration, and that they should
not be reduced in such a manner as would press hard upon
them—(hear) —and prevent the repetition of that distress
that prevailed amongst the seamen on their au !den and
numerous discharge after the former war. By careful ma-
nagement, however, the Government leered in a shorttime
to reduce the navy to a peace establishment, without in-
dieting any injury on the men. (Hear.) Complaints hal
been made of the distress which many sailors had suffered
in consequence of their discharge by the Government, and
he alluded to it in orderto put the matter right and correct
misrepresentations that had gone abroad. 4,000 men had
been discharged, 2,200 of them were men taken from the
coast-guard service and from the seamen riggers, who, ge-
nerally speaking, had returned to the avocations from
which they were taken at the commencement of the war.
So that the actual number of men discharged was under 1
2,000, and comprised men who had served more than 5
years, and were entitled to their discharge, and were
promised when they joined the Baltic fleet that on the
termination of the war they should be the first to be dis-
charged. It was quite true that complaints bad been
made of seamen having been discharged with their pay,
and in consequence had suffered great distress at Ports-
mouth ; but it arose in this way—when a ship came
home, and was to he paid off, the men were transferred
to the flag-ship, rationed, and paid up to the time when
the final payment list was made up, which was a work of
much difficulty and occupied considerable time. The men
in question objected to go to the flag-ship and wait for
their money, but insisted on being paid off on shore,
and the c meequence was that they were landed
and were Fubjectel to much distress from having
no money when they got on shore. All was done
by the Admiralty possible to relieve their temporary dis-
tress. The country must maintain in times of peace a
larger standing army than had hitherto been the C.ts.
(Cheers ) He was not one of those who thought it was
desirable we should keep up a large standing army in
peace, considering we bad not the facilities possessed by
continental countries for obtaining men, but that we
sbould strengthen, and keep in an efficient state, what
had always been considered our principal defenders—
the navy. (Cheers ) They found by the experience of
former wars, that the only way to rapidly increase the
navy was by impressment, but it was an objectionable
one, and during the past war the country had relied on
voluntary enlistment, which, though slow, bad in the end
been succesl-fuf. The experience of the past war had shown
them how useful the sailors of the fleet were on land, and
he believed that Russia, who kept up a large naval
force, made good use of her sailors in working the guns
of the fortresses both at Cronstadt and Sebastopol.
the increase in the navy, including men, boy,, and
marines, for the past two years—from Dec. 1853, to
Dee., 1855—was, men 16,325, boys 3,501, and marines
3,936, making a total of 23,812 ; and that increase had
been made by voluntary enlistment, which was a subject
~f great congratulation. The right hon, baronet then re-
ferred to the giving of bounties for enlistment, which he
thought obj-'ctionable, and failed to answer its purposes
in consequence of the competition of the commercial 'ma-
rine, and in speaking of the coast guard service—those
bald-headed men with spectacles, referred to on a former
occasion by the gallant admiral the member for South-
wark—said they had rendered essential service, and
that their conduct had had a wonderful effect on the
young men of the navy in maintaining discipline, and in
rendering them efficient seamen. The Government bad a
plan under consideration for the management of the
coast guard volunteers. As at present constituted they
had proved a failure, and unless they could he re-
organised and incorporated with the coast guard ser-
vice, he questioned the propriety of their co.tinuance.
The next vote on which there was a small sum to be
taken was on billets. The whole vote would be about
2001. or 3001. less than last- year, and amounted to
167,0001. The next vote was about half a million 'for
naval stores. The necessities of the time had compelled
them to increase the dockyards at Devonport and Ply-
mouth. Some idea of the want in that way might be
seen, when it was remembered that our five largest dock-
yards pot together did not equal the single dockyard at
Cherbourg. The increase was required by the increase
in the size of vessels rather than of their number. To
provide for modern constructions, it was necessary to
Increase the size of the docks. The next vote was for
medical stores, and there was a sum granted to the crew
of the Prometheus for a mo-t gallant action performed by
them off the coast of R in capturing pirates. The entire
estimate would be two millions less than was originally
estimated ; the first estimate being nearly 7 millions, the
enin he now asked for was about four millions and a
quarter. The sums which would he required for the
transport of the men from the Crimea were as yet
uncertain. They bad sent out a provisional number of
store and transport ships till they should see what would
be done in the Mediterranean. Some time bad been re•
quired to reorganise the troops before they should be
-ent home. They had sent home two line-of-battle ships,
six war steamers, thirty small vessels, and ten small
screw-steamers. They had given the admirals on the
station authority to send home as many more as they
could. All these vessels returned with troops on board.
There had already been 10,000 men of the Sardinian
Contingent, and 2,300 horses sent home, and 43,000 men
a,,,d 5,1,00 horses had passed the Dardanelles. In about
a month the Turkish Contingent would be moved away.
It was true that the French had brought home a larger
number of men, but it should be remembered that the
distance in their case was far less than in ours. As to
the number of men in the Crimea the information of
the Government was derived from telegraphic despatches,
which were necessarily more uncertain than written
despatches. But speaking in round numbers, to the
best of his belief there were now in the Crimea from
32,000 to 33,000 men. There were at that moment
steam transports in the Mediterranean under orders to
bring home the troops, capable of conveying 33,000 men,
more than the number required, and he believed that
the whole force would be carried from the Crimea be-
fore the end of the month. B,otides this, about 9,000 ,
sailing transport vessels would arrive for the purpose of
bringing home the stores during the month of June. As
far as he could judge there was altogether in the East,
including those in the Mediterranean, under 40,000 men,
while there was provision for bringing home fully 42,000.
The vote propoced fur this service included, he believed,
more than was sufficient, but the Government would
not be justified, under the circumstances, in asking
for smaller sums. He thought that he bad alluded
to every point which it was necessary to explain, but
if any further explanation was required he should be
happy to afford it. ,

Mr. BENTINCK said that the right hon. baronet
had t,,ld them that the reduction of the number of men
in the navy was to be about 20,000, and had admitted
that the reduction was not so great as might in other
cases I are been expected on the return of peace. He
himself would have been as well pleased if the reduction
had been even lees, remembering the adage, "In the
time of peace to be prepared for war." He could not
enter at present into the circumstances which were not
as yet to be discussed ; but he trusted that hereafter
they would keep up a larger force in time of peace than
they had hitherto done. He believed that forced and
sudden preparations had cost us more than a judicious
expenditure spread over a large number of years would
have done. He trusted they would abandon the penny-
wise and pound-foolish economy which had characterised
their proceedings of late years.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the right hon. baronet
would no doubt receive ample encouragement in any
scheme of expenditure. The hon. member for Norfolk
had already led the way, For himself he was disposed to
give every encouragement to an efficient naval force,
but unfortunately we had spent immense sums, and our
naval force was ant made an efficient one. He believed
that out of 16 items, of which the vote consisted, reduc-
tions might be made in at least 10 of them, while in two
~f them at least there were considerable reductions that
might he made. He did not think that it would be ad-
vi4able at present to make any diminution in the num-
ber of men. But the expenditure in respect to naval
yards was greater than the war expenditure of last year ;
and considering the vast 811i118 which had been spent
on these establishments of late years, he thought that
the sum of 40,0001. now demanded was much too large.
Then, again, the sum asked for ❑aval stores was much
too !arge. He wished that the right hon. gentleman
would explain more clearly if he meant to adhere to the
proposed reduction in the transport service, for which
they had already voted a larger sum than was required.
The right hon, bar inet bad not stated what distinctions
were to be made in the service.
Sir C. WOOD said that he had stated that it was in-
tended to reduce the service.

Mr. WILLIAMS wail glad to hear it. He thought
that economy would be consulted by carrying out a still
larger amount of reduction:. . . _

Admiral WALCOTT said that it was natural that he
should support any attempt to maintain the navy in an
efficient state. It was necessary for the preservation of
that sentiment to look carefully into the expenditure.
He wished to draw the attention of the First Lord of the
Admiralty t.) the necessity not only of keeping a proper
number of ships afloat, but remembering the words of the
song, " A British seaman on our caasts." It was im-
portant that the services of British officers and seamen
should be duly recognised and rewarded. If this was
done the country would in the end find its own reward.
The right bon, baronet had remarked that they should
look especially to the efficiency of the navy in respect cf
its seamen. Now he begged to call the attention of the
right hon. gentleman to the arrangements and accom-
modation on board the Exmouth, which were such as
to deserve special mention, and might well furnish ex-
ample to other vessels in the service. He had some
things to praise in the arrangements of the Admiralty,

but he had likewise some things to reprehend. He did
not like the change of the name of the Marines into
that of light infantry. He did not see what they had
of light infantry about them. Ho should likewise call
attention to the continuation service pay. The returns
on this head were not well given, althou the expendi-
ture was 20,000/. It was essential above all things to
keep alive the spirit of the men. He would recommend
an add►tion to the Mutiny Act, so that the seamen's
clothes and necessaries might be properly looked after
as those of the soldiers were. At present, when the
seamen were provided with good clothes, if they wanted
money to go on shore they sold them, and purchased in•
stead inferior articles, which were worn to pieces in a
very short time. He did not believe that the Admiralty
had asked for more money than was necessary for the
efficiency of the service, though he should have some
observations to make when the votes came to be con-
sidered in detail.

Colonel BUCK called attention to the sum asked for
the corps of the " Royal Coast Naval Volunteers." The
proposition of forming men employed in the coasting
service bad been made some time ago with the service,
of which the necessary p-riod was limited to a single
year. Sums of money had bee❑ asked for on that ac-
count, and officer-4 had been appointed, but the coun try
had derived no benefit. He himself had asked for a re-
turn of these Royal Cast Volunteers, be had asked for
the number of times they bad exercised, and for the num-
ber of the volunteers. The returns stated that the num-
ber of men enrolled on the Ist of March was 4,819. But
it appeared that there were none embodied, and in 1855
they had not once been exercised. Yet during the course
of that year 50,0001. had been voted for embodying this
force and making it efficient. Now, how coull they make
the seamen efficient if they did not bring them together?
Again, what were they doing with the officers ? At
present they were doing nothing. The men were not
embodied, and the officers did nothing. Yet they were
paying six captains of troops and six paymasters of
troops. The salaries amounted to 1,4961., and there
was a multitude of extraneous expenses, while the value
of the whole corps was not worth 601.. the price of the
stationery. It might be supposed that some of these
men would volunteer into the royal navy. This was not
the case. Oot of the whole only 256 men had enlisted
into the navy. He could not see the least use in the
corps, or in the 50,0001. which had been expended.
Sir C. WOOD said that the money had not been ex-
pended.

Colonel BUCK said that they were now called upon
to vote 20,000/. or 30,0001. more for this force, which
was of no use whatever. He hoped they would have
some assurance that the money would not be thrown
a-way, if the plan was not to be carried out. As far as
experience had gone, it was a complete failure, and the
vote ought to be withdrawn.
Mr. LINDSAY concurred in much of what had fallen
from the honourable and gallant member who had
just sat down, and hoped that some explana-
tion would be given on the subject. He had
objections to the system of bonuses. The sys-
tem had proved a failure, and it wile evident that
if you could not encourage men in other ways to
enter the royal navy, you could not do it by means of
bonuses. These bonuses were used for purposes very
different from what the seamen requited. He hoped
that the right hon, gentleman would afford them some
explanations as to his views for raising the requisite
number of seamen. As to those who had been already
raised, the question in regard to them was what would
have happened if the Baltic fleet had actually encoun-
tered the enemy. The seamen were now wanted in the
service, and if they were to be kept in the royal navy
merely as a boon to themselves, it would be much better
if they were let loose. He wished to call attention to
the mode of settling with the seamen, and the delays
which had taken place. It had been sail that this de-
partment was the most overworked of any ; but be
thought that if the simple system of accounts prac-
tised in the merchant service was followed, the settle-
merits might be very easily effected. Toe honourable
member for Lambeth had taken objection to the
largeness of the vnt,s for the dockyards ; but he (Mr.
Line'dsay) did not object to the largeness of votes, but
to the way in which the money was expended, and he
thought that any reduction of the dockyard vote would
be a very false econoery. (Hear.) On the whole he was
very well pleased with the estimates, and the statement
with which they had been introduced.
Captain SCOBELL thought the importance of the
system of manning the navy could not be over-estimated,
and expressed his hope that the right hon. baronet would
turn his attention to the subject. When a man had been
in the navy fur five years, he thought his pay ought
gradually to rise, and if this were done it would be a great
encouragement for good men to enter and remain in the
service. He agreed that the navy ought not to go too
low ; but the question was, what was too low ? for other
nations would keep up theirs as we kept up our ; and
France especially, who knew every vessel which we had,
would never be content to keep her naval force much be-
low ours ; and with regard to large steam -ships, their
value was yet unknown, for during the last war we
had had no large ships in action, except at Sebastopol,
where their attack failed, and all that had been done in
the war had been done by small vessels and gun-boats.
What, could be done by two fleets of large steam war
vessels yet remained to be tried ; and he believed that
when such fl-ets met the effect would be tremendous.
In connecticn with the transport seavice, enormous sums
had been paid f,,r the hire of steamers, and the whole
service had been managed most extravagantly. He did
not think that a man-of-war was much injured by carry-
ing troops occasionally ; and if there should be another
war at any time, he thought a portion of our large ships
might be so advantageously employed. Then there was.
the bonus or bounty system, which had not been usual
in the navy; and he believed that if it had been adopted
the nation would have saved hundreds of thousands of
pounds, as the ships would have been more properly
manned, and with a better class of men. He had been
prevented, by a form of the house, from bringing forward
his motion on half-pay that night, but should take en
opportunity of bringing it before the house as soon as
possible.
Mr. G. TYLER- intimated his general satisfaction
with the estimates, and the statement made by the right
hon. baronet, but expressed his regret that nothing had
been said as to any proposal for some mode of collect-
ing seamen upon any emergency. It was the duty of
the Admiralty to turn their attention to the subject, but
probably their numerous occupations had hitherto pre-
vented them from doing so. Something might doubt-
less be done towards such an object by training up
boys to become sailors ; but he recommended the insti-
tution of a naval militia, living within a certain distance
of the coast, and who might be made available at any
time for manning the navy upon short notice. He '
hoped the Government would appoint a commission
with some eminent naval officer at its head for the
purpose of inqUiring into the feasibility of such a
scheme. In the event of another war we might not
be so well prepared to man our fleets as during the last
war, and therefore it was a duty incumbent upon the
Government to take care that some efficient plan should
be adopted for the coast volunteering as a nursery
for seamen, certainly was not to be relied upon. In
conclusi ,n, he urged up no Government the propriety of
renewing the commission of 1852.

Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE remarked that the main
characteristic of the militia was inconsistent with the
character of a naval force. With regard to the doctrine
kid down by the honourable and gallant member for
Bath, that our naval force was to be kept low for fear of
provoking the jealousy or rivalry of other countries, he
thought that ought not to weigh with the house, since
' France, unlike England, did not depend upon the sea ;
and to abandon our naval supremacy was to abandon
•our existence as a ration altogether. (Hear).
Admiral Sir CHARLES NAPIER was glad that
the navy was not to be reduced too low, for be thought
a great mistake had been made in that direction dur-
ing the eight or nine years preceding the war. (Hear.)
With regard to bounties, he thought they ought to have
been extended to the navy as well as to the army, and he
trusted that the Government would take an opportunity
of amending a bill introduced by Sir J. Graham in 1831
upnp this subject, and that her Majesty in case of a new
war, would issue her proclamation for a bounty to sea-
men, so that they might enter the service properly
clothed and in a proper spirit. He was glad that the
number of marines was not to be reduced, for bethought
it essential that that force should be kept up, one-half of
them being kept on bard ship, and the other half on
garrison duty at docks, yard., and seaports. The country
ought never to have fewer than ten ships of the line in
commission, sailing about in different parts of the world ;
and if other proper steps were taken, the Government
would be able to double the navy when they thought
proper. With regard to the coast volunteers, he thought
that if properly arranged they might be of very great ser-
vice to the navy ; but then, instead of living on shore, as
now, they ought to be borne on the books of some small
steamer, which should be sent to the respective stations.
He hoped the advice of the gallant officer who had
just sat down would be taken, and that a commission
would be appointed to inquire into the best mode of
manning the navy.

S;r J. GRAHAM said that, however firmly peace
might be established, it wou'd be elite improper to
reduce the navy to the strength at which it stood before
the late war ; and especially he thought that a force of
less than 16,000 marine> ought not to be kept up, for
that fares was the nucleus upon which the navy might
alway, fall back to recruit itself. A marine was both a
soldier and, to a certain extent, a sailor; and Woolwich,
Chatham, Portsmouth, Plymouth, and other places ought
a'ways to be garrisoned with marines. If there was
any point upon which he found fault with the statement
made to the house, it was for the absence of any pro-
position for establishing a permanent naval reserve,
which ought always to exist in time of peace, so that in
time of war a fleet might be readily manned. As a
first step he thought it important that a large number
of boys should enter the fleet, for they were more easily
trained, and by keeping up a large number of them in
time of peace, able seamen might be allowed to
retire upon pensions, to receive which they shou'd appear
at least every half-year, so that Government might know
where to put their bands upon them at any time. This
would to a certain extent give a perma :cot and most
valuable reserve, for the men would be young, well
trained, and always available. With regard to the coast-
guard volunteers, he agreed very much with the gallant
member for Southwark, and as there were now many
ships of all kinds and sizes to spare, he thought the 1,500
naval volunteers of Scott nd, who strongly resembled
a militia, should be put on board ship for a month's
training, from which the best results might follow.
And he thought, too, that a similar force might be
introduced into England and Ireland, and was
strongly of opinion that that was the moment for
making great changes in the coast guard ; that it
should be taken froM the Revenue board, and placed
under the Admiralty ' • that not a landsman should be
allowed to enter it, but that it should be made up
of meritorious men from the navy itself ; and thus
properly officered, there would be another naval reserve

established upon which reliance might be placed in any I
emergency that might arise. That which was now a I
hybrid service might be rendered a valuable defence, the
cost would easily be ascertained, and the whole arrange-
ment would be perfectly satisfactory. The means which
he suggested were nut at ail expensive, and be was quite
satisfied that if they wished to add to the efficiency of
the navy at the smallest cost, and with the greatest cer-
tainty, the best course which could be pursued was the
one he recoininended. Commissions had been recom-
mended, but the best commission was the Board of Ad-
miralty, which was presided over by most efficient offi-
cers. A feeling prevailed throughout the house and
country of the necessity of establishing a naval reserve,
and he should be glad to render every assistance in his
power in carrying out such a measure. (Hear.) With re-
gard to bounty, he considered it an expensive resource,
involving the navy in a competition with the merchant
service, and he was convincedtbatin time of war it would
always be found inefficient. He hoped, notwithstanding
the advanced period of the session, his right hon. friend
would not consider it impossible to take the Coast Guard
from the Revenue department, and place it under the
jurisdiction of the Admiralty.
Admiral BERKELEY said he had taken every pos-
sible pains to man the Baltic fleet, and he trusted by-
gones would be bygones. He congratulated himself on
the speech which had been just delivered by the right
hon. gentleman the member for Carlisle. Se far back as
the naval administration of Lord Minto, he (Admiral
Berkeley) wrote a pamphlet recommending the course
which had been suggested by the right hon. baronet with
reference to the coast guard as a nucleus for au efficient
reserve for the navy. He believed the Board of Admi-
ralty the proper per:eves to undertake the responsibility
of providing such a reserve, and should not shrink from
his portion of such responsibility.
Sir F. T. BA RING though this country ought not
to keep up an aggressive fleet, and that its expenditure
ought not to be fixed at too high an amount. Tee navy
was kept up by Ler I Auckland at too high an estimate,
and he was compelled under considerable pressure to
reduce its efficiency. Nothing was more dangerous than
continuous changes in the amount of the force, because
they impaired the efficiency of the men. The subject of
manning the navy was not a very easy one. The most
important naval reserve must be afloat ; but there were
other points which ought not to be lost sight of. It
was of the utmost importance that the gunnery ships
should be kept up in a state of efficiency. With regard
to the coast guard, he at one time doubted the expediency
of transferring that service from the Customs to the
Admiralty ; but during the time he was at the
hoard he changed his opinion, and should be
glad to support his right honourable friend at
the head of the Admiralty in effecting the change which
bad been recimmended. (Rear.) He trusted the Ad-
miralty would not lose sight of the necessity of having
an efficient naval reserve, which was one of the most im-
portant subjects to which the aetention of the Admiralty
could be directed. Although he concurred generally in
opinion with Sir G. Tyler, he doubted whether a com-
mittee of naval officers were likely to come to a satisfac-
tory conclusion. It was a question which must be de-
cided by the Admiralty alone. He did not despair that a
system of coast volunteers would be found successful,
although it had not hitherto answered the expectations
which had been formed respecting it. The Admiralty
knew the extreme importAnce of the subject, and he
trusted that at the commencement of the next session an
attempt would be made to form an efficient naval reserve.
Mr. BENTINCK, in reference to the transport ser-
vice, observed that he wished for a return showing the
number of transports employed, the number of men con-
veyed by them, and the expense incurred by the trans-
ports during the late war, because such return would
show, that if during the last 40 years an efficient num-
ber of troop ships had been kept up, the cast would have
been much less than during recent operations. (Hear,
hear.) If the country was prepared to carry nut the de-
claration laid down at Paris with regard to the right
of search, our naval glory would be gone for ever. He
entered his protest against a state of things which if
persevered in must be subversive of the commercial
greatness of this country. (Hear.)
Sir G. PECHELL had listened t) the discussion
with the greatest interest, and concurred in the opinion
of his brother officers as to ihe necessity of placing our
navy in the time of peace on such a footing as would
insure its efficiency in tine of war. He urged upon the
Government the propriety of keeping on the coast of
Cuba a proper class of vessels with the view of prevent-
,
iug the carrying on the slave-trade, and trusted the Go-
vernment would not lose sight of the recommendations
of the committee on that sulject which sat in 1853.
Sir C. WOOD concurred with his right hon. friend
(Sir J. Graham) in the necessity of maintaining a large
force of marines during the time of peace, and providing
accommodation for them. He believed the maintenance
of such a body the best possible economy. lie was not
able to state any organised plan for an efficient reserve,
but it must combine the coast-guard, the naval coast
volunteers, and !the pensioners. (Hear, hear.) They
must be placed under the control of the Admiralty, and
officered by that board. He did not think it desirable
to reappoint the committee, but was of opinion that the
whole responsibility, ought to rest on the board of Ad-
miralty.
The vote was then agreed to.• •
The following votes were also agreed to :-
601,9221., to complete the sum necessary for wages
of the seamen and marines.
167,3381., to complete the suns necessary for incapa-
citated seamen and marines.
500,0001. fur naval stores and steam machinery.
On a vote of 40,0001 for increased works at Deptford,
Mr. MA.GUIRE objected to the vote. He was pro-
ceeding to enter into the merits of Cork harbour, and
to blame the Government for not making it a naval sta-
tion, when
The CHAIRMAN called him to order, reminding
him that these topics were entirely foreign to the vote
before the house.
Mr. MAGUIRE could bring his observations within
the rules of the house by moving that the chairman
should report progress, because Queenstown was not
mentioned in the vote. (A. laugh.) He then read an
extract from a written statement of Sir George Sar-
torius in reference to the capabilities of Cork harbour.
The gallant admiral dwelt not only on its capacity as a
harbour, but on the facility with which it might he en-
tered, and of the advantages of its position as saving the
long channel navigation which, in certain winds, was
,so difficult and dangerous. In case of an attack on the
coast of Ireland or on the coast of England, on the Irish
channel, the beet point from which a squadron could
be betached was Cork harbour. For offensive opera-
tions it was not less valuable. Toe safety of the
empire was compromised by not having the means of
repairing, not a squadron, but a single ship, at Cork, in
I
case such ship going to or corning from the south should
'be crippled by storm or in battle. Sir G. Sartorius
said that if a sudden attack were made by France or
Russia, either single or combined, without declaring
war, all our existing naval arsenal might be destroyed.
It was, then, of the utmost importance to have some
arsenal in a position where it might be safe from such
an attack. And the electric telegraph removed all
objections arising from its distance from the seat
of Government. There was in the middle of the
harbour a bank which could easily, at an expense of
about 200,0001., be formed into a site for a steam
factory and an arsenal. It would not be necessary
( to purchase any land, and by the labour of the Coll -
I victs at Spike Island the necessary works might be
erected at a comparatively moderate expense. A third
of the navy was manned by Irishmen, so that Ireland
bad a claim to have a naval arsenal established at Cork.
He would not, however, insist on this, but desired that
this question should be considered on purely imperial
grounds.
Lord BERNARD said that at present the finest har-
bour in the British dominions was utterly defenceless.
Not only were the natural capabilities of Cork harbour
great, but if they had a station they would obtain intel-
ligence from America 17 hours sooner than they could
at present. In case of a war with that country, which
he hoped would be averted, its position afforded the
greatest advantages.
Mr. M. CHAMBERS objected to the operation of a
part of the vote on Deptrord. It was proposed to lay
out a large sum on the purchase of part of the parish
of St. Nicholas, Deptford. The result would be to throw
the burden of the poor of the parish upon the remain-
ing property of the p Irish.
Sir C. WOOD could give no other answer to the
member for Dungarvon than that, whatever it might
be desirable to do at Cork, our first object should be
to complete our existing naval arsenals. When they
were complete, it might be advantageous to have small
esta'eli-hments either in Ireland or Scotland.
Sir F. BARING remarked upon the hardship of
the Deptford case, and stated that this was a grievance
constantly occurring in dockyard ports.
After a few words from Sir J. TROLLOPE and from
Sir C. WOOD in explanation,
Colonel DUNNE said that if the hon. member for
Dungarvon had known the injury it would have been he
would not have asked fur it, but still they were ready
to accept a dockyard with all its inconveniences in
Cork.

Mr. W. CAIRN said the Irish people did not object
to be taxed 2,0001. for the expenditure of 100,0001. in
constructing docks at Cork.
The vote wits agreed to.
A vote of 5001. for medical stores was agreed to.
The sum of 1,000/ was agreed to be paid to the officers
and crew of the Prometheus for exertions against pirates.
The next vote was for 4,977,200/. for transport service
in connection with the late war, and for the maintenance
of prisoners of war.

Sir H. WILLOUGDMY said that, the war being con-
cluded, it was inexplicable bow this sum of money could
be expended, and asked for an explanation, so that the
country might have the advantage of the Appropriation
Act in iti being divided and placed under its proper
headings.

Sir C. WOOD said that at an early period of the
evening he stated the nature of this vote.

Sir H. WILLOUG fl BY objected to this mode of at-
tempting to evade an explanation of the expenditure of so
large an amount. Such an instanc-,as asking for so large a
sum without an explanation was unknown. lie objected to
the lumping of charges together in this manner—(hear)
—which did away with all control over the expenditure
of the various departments.
Sir C. WOOD said that the vote came before the house
now as it did last year, and it was impossible to give a
detailed account of it in reference to every individual
transport.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
had shown on a former occasion a deficiency from taxation
to meet expenditure of seven millions. He had taken a loan
of five millions, and it was necessary now to take a vote
of two millions to make up the balance. On that occasion
no estimate was taken of an increase of expenditure or of
any defalcations. In an expenditure, of this
,magnitude,
and the expense of removing our army from the Cri-
mea, it was necessary the house should agree to a vote of
credit of two millions to meet the possible excess of expen-
diture that might accrue. He proposed a vote of credit of

two millions to defray the expenses beyond the ordinary
grants of 1855 and 1856, and 1856 and 1857, for the ex-
penditure of the army and navy.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that seventy-seven mil-
lio,s of ways and means hal been voted, and the balance
of the last loan not having been expended it would have
been better to have waited and come to the h use for the
actual sum required than to have called on the house for
this extreme credit. He looked upon this motion as a

dangerous power, and ought not to lie :icce•ied to. There
were powers by act of Parliament to transfer the balance
from one department to another, and he did not consider
this vote of credit necessary. There would be no objection
to pay the just demands of the Government, but he ob-
jected to this vote of credit.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS said this was an unexpected de-
mand, and he concurred in the remark& of the honourable
baronet. He wanted to know if this vote would cover all
demands on the Government with reference to the war?
Tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCEIEQUE it said this
vote was taken as a matter of precaution and not of neces-
sity. With regard to the expenses of the war, so far as
the estimates were concerned, they would be within the
sum named.

After some remarks from Mr. HADFIELD, who also
objected to this vote of confidence, and considered it of
sufficient importance to call the house together fora special
vote, said he would support the hon. baronet if he pressed
for a division. (" Hear," and ironical cheers.)
Ur. GLYNN supported the vote.
The vote was agreed to.
On the resolution that the Chaii man report progress,
Mr. WALPOLE called the attention of the house to his
motion on the paper with reference to national education
in Ireland. He had given way on several occasions for the
convenience of the Government, and as they were to have
a morning sitting ou Tuesday he asked the noble lord at
the head of the Government not to commence the morning
sittings till Thursday, and enable him to bring on his mo •
tion on Tuesday evening.
Mr. FITZROY said the hon. gentleman was out of
order in bringing on the subject then.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress; when
Lord PALMERSTON said he did not consider a mrrn-
ing sitting precluded a discussion at the evening sitting.
His argument, if allowed, would preclude all morning sit-
tings. He could not accede to the request to postpone the
commencement of the morning sittings.
Mr. DISRA.ELI said that as the hon. member had con-
sulted the convenience of the Government, it was unfair to
commence the morning sittings without consulting the hon.
gentleman's convenience. They were commencing the morn-
ing sittings earlier than usual, and that was a reason why
due notice should be given ; and the important notices of
motion on the paper was another reason why the morning
sittings should not commence in thaensuing week.
PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL

On the motion that the Speiker leave the chair for the
house to go into committee on this bill,
Mr. WALPOLE pressed for au answer, or he would
mov, the adjournment of the house.
Lord PALMERSTON said the morning sittings would
be later this year than the last; five days notice of the
morning sittings had been given. Their sittings did not
encroach on the evening sittings, and the right hon. gen-
tleman had no right to complain.
Mr. M'CANN said no inconvenience could have arisen
from the morning sittings on Tuesday, because there was
no difficulty in getting rid of Irish questions, and two were
set down for that day.
PAROCLIIAL SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. C. BRUCE moved that the house resolve itself into
such committee that day three months. He complained
that in respect of this bill the courtesy had not been shown
that was usually shown to Scotch members. Although he
entertained serious objections to the bill, he had refrained
from proposing them at the second reading, in the hopes
that he might be able to introduce certain modifications.

and that the hon. and learned lord (the Lord Advocate)
would agree to the insertion of certain clauses which would
have removed his objections. In that hope he had been
disappointed, and he was therefore compelled to resort to
the cry of no surrender. He read a letter from the General
Assembly of the Church of Scotland, expressing great ap•
prehension as to some of the provisions of the bill, and es-
pecially to clauses 7,9, and 11. He must oppose all at-
tempts to injure the influence of an institution which, for
two centuries, had conferred such signal benefits on the
country. The proposed bill would introduce into the go-
verning body of the educational system of Scotland persons
holding Unitarian doctrines, which had already made con-
siderable progress on the continent of Europe and of Ame-
rica. He believed that the existence of the Established
Church of Scotland had been a great safeguaid against
the spreading of these doctrines in Scotland. He was in
hopes that as his hon: and learned friend had made
concessions last year to the feeling of the country, that
he would this year have agreed to the terms which they
had proposed. Those terms were very simple—to ex-
tend the benefits of education in those districts in which
they do not at present exist under such provisions
as Parliament should agree to. They were will-
ing to consent to such extensions, with a proper guarantee
for the maintenance of the religious element in the teach-
ing of the school. He thought the concessions which had
been made by his honourable friend were mere delusions.
the object of his honourab!e and learned friend was to
hand over the management of education in Scotland to
another Church, which had been called in that house the
most degraded system of dissent which had ever existed,
and which arrogated to itself the title of "Free Church,"
as if all other churches were not equally free. He would
have conferred far greater benefit on his country by re-
conciling the two parties, between whom the difference
was now very small, and by saying to thew, in
the words of the great Hebrew legislator, "Ye are
brethren; , why do ye wrong one to another ?" He
himself (Mr.- C. Bruce) would have given a hearty
consent to any measure for reconciling the two Churches.
His hon. and learned friend seemed to have a holy horror
of the word " test," of the effect of which on the parochial
schoolmasters he seemed grievously afraid. As an inde-
pendent member of the house he must declare his opinion
in favour of religious and secular education in Scotland ;
and in considering this bill he could not put out of sight
the other bill introduced by the right hon. gentleman for
the establishment of borough schools, as both bills seemed
to have been based upon the seine principle. These bo-
rough schools wei• to be supported by borough-rates;
and after what had recently passed in that house, he con-
, tended that the attempt was to introduce into Scotland a
principle which the house had decidedly negatived with
regard to. England. No improvement in the parish
schools could be caused by the bill, and the only
reason which he had heard advanced in favour of the bill
was one which established an undue preference for mem-
bers of the Free Church over other dissenters. He opposed
the measure because it would prove destructive to parish
schools, and introduce disunion into every parish in Scot-
land, and aim a heavy blowand sore discouragement at the
Established Church, by which it had been strongly con-
demned. He would therefore move his amendment; but
if he received an assurance from his hon. friend the mem-
ber for Leith that ho would adhere to the amendment
which he had upon the paper, he (Mr. Bruce) would not
push his own amendment to a division.
Mr. LOCKHART seconded the amendment, upon the
ground that. the bill would take from the Church of Scot-
land the substance of control over the schools, and leave it
a merely nominal influence.
Sir J. FERGUSSON said the first clauses of the bill
secured a better standing and better salaries for the masters
of parish schools in Scotland than they now had. Ho
would not, however, have given his support to the bill in
its earlier stages if he bad not supposed that clauses would
be introduced to do away with some of the objections
which had been urged against it. There were some very
promising features in the bill, and he hoped to see it so
improved in committee as to make it generally acceptable.
He should like to see those doctrines introduced as a test
of admission which were professed by the Presbyterians of
Scotland, and he could not see how any one could refuse to
establish that test of admission.
Sir A. CAMPBELL admitted that the Church of Scot-

land was not the proprietor of the schools in Scotland, but
she was at least the trustee, and had discharged her trust
well and faithfully. The necessity of improving the posi-
tion of the schoolmasters was generally admitted, but the
Government might have effected that three years ago. But
every change proposed was clogged by conditions which
were most unacceptable to the people. The instruction
was at present carried on satisfactorily by the Church, and
he did not approve of the alteration now proposal. (sew,)
He trusted the noble and learned lord would make such
modification as would allow the passing of the bill.
Mr. MACKIE objected to the 10th clause of the bill,
and trusted that it would be omitted.
The house then divided, when there were—
For going into committee......
Against
Majority
The house then went into committee pro forma, anti
immediately resumed.

The Oxford University Bill was read a third time.
Mr. HEYWOOD moved a clause preventing any of the
colleges introducing any new religious tests into their
statutes.

Sir G. GREY opposed the clause. He admitted
that the object was a good one, but he did not think the
present a favourable opportunity for discussing the subject.
Mr. HEYWOOD withdrew the clause, and the bill was
passed, with the addition of a clause enabling the colleges
to sell or exchange any of their lands, tenements, and here-
ditaments, reinvesting the purchase money received for
them in other lands, tenements, and hereditaments.
The Annuities Redemption Bill pasied through com-
mittee...

The other orders were disposed of, and the house ad-
journed about two o'clock.

Emigration from Sweden to North America still con-
tinuos on a great scale, especially from the western pr)-
vinces. Hundreds of emigrants have already left this
year the districts of Willaud and Goinge for the new
world.

A FEROCIOUS CAT.—A woman in th' Rue de Chartres,
at Lyons, who had abandoned her house for several days
in consequence of the inundations, leaving a cat behind,
torn
was, on her return, attacked by starvingtheo eo
f animalhereyes
and
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