The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-15 00:00:00

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finrati had been unduly influenced on the subject by
111 as Ybysyimachinery-by violent letters-(Laughter)-as
poll th., _ o Violent speeches ; and he could not close his eyes
tth lit;eintreet of the Noble Lord's (J. Russell) letter of the
Ordv,ber-
,,, • RUSSELL-The 4th.
ItEIiZOGLDS said that brought it closer to the anni-
ii.unpowder plot.- (Hear.) It was a well-
lareki production as far as Guy Fawkes was concerned ..
eter)--and it had its result.-(Hear.) The Bishop of
!eeath'osits°i , had written a most offensive letter as regarded
Niai„_ es of this country, in the preceding October,
tlt.tetellgAetrheewsaams,e time moderation to his hearers.-
however, another letter, written in No-
ilelit °814,7 which recently came to light the letter of the
!,0 ao`Z.ll. aronet the Member for Ripon, which would
ifi 1,10,, to Posterity side by side with that of
wtook " Lord, and make the public exclaim,
tti 4180 ss this picture and on this." There
)1114ratt vt. B
Ito ,_'•ue speech of the same statesman to
betw tha of the Noble Lord, and the two-ld would
\11,4 bad a that
them. But it was gratifying to find thie Bill
ila,N.,.(ne as ever was protested for non-payment - had
tttz:,?..,.feated by the Right Hon Baronet, as well as by
141411471nced statesman the Eat]. of Aberdeen, and found
dt4lfereeiel•e'sarY• The public of this country were told that
,NI, was in danger, but these sincere Protestants un-
,
tei am 'elm, He would refer to the whole matter in dis-
lt/tetati i,Ths_eak, 'what it was? The Noble Lord had said it
1, ieLeutt, but to make it an insult the men ought to have
Oh , thing personal. Could any man suppose the
'letended to 'g Noble Lori
eat tha insult the Queen? The could
ki;11 apem. ts nor could any reasonable man. An insult
qtebtiit.rlal affair which subjected the insulter to p r•
t leetv fletnent. Formerly insults were qu'e ly settled
jliilofthl..X,,Park, but this insult was to be settled by the re-
ii.e,_stith'olit,lnancipation Act. He had spent ten years ( f his
eig the 'iltermission in assisting a great Irishman to
0 for :Ineation of emancipation And when t e was strug-
Veretelnancipation it was suggestol as A condition that
Opt isen should Ave a veto in the nominati n of th it
tb,hie condition was rejected with scorn, and the
4 tholics had to wait many years before they got the
i,clegt4r enlanciaation been offered on the disgraceful
r•illiellim,ll,lg conditi, na contained in the Noble Lorct's Bill it
t,.,.01i,rt-roeertunivers shy rejected. And yet, because Roman
CtNg tigions professors desired t • carry out their religion
crA,,, 0 their settlel forms, they were called insol nt
e1341;0 It was said that the nomination of Roman Ca-
they 10),t1„was an invasion of the Queen's prerogative.
It:Ile it `lldrell to argue in that He contended
Dte.o.4elliation of bishops by the Pope did not invade
ski the'6ative, and did not confer any territorial power.
14 'til %4°012 made a bishop it
thesewa the baron that con-
ttkre
ofterritorial power. Had ope's bully conferred
s.ititelent +territory on Cardinal Wiseman? It had not
wired enough to "sod a lark."-(Laughter.) That
explanation. It meant he had not land
keitttlectiesYer a lark's remains.-(Laughter.) It gave
es, iftiesiastical dues. if the bull had run thus-but he
i)reaelbiZe was any bull at all-" I appoint A. B. to
kt 4, els, iii;',Linal jurisdiction over the Roman Catholics of
eit`tliste there would be no objection to that-neither
koaely to be any objection to the bull as it was worded,
sieleiheontenaplated spiritual objects. The Roman Ca-
liejlelist3 had presented an address to her Majesty, but
ail'ialstZed their names without their titles, and so they
kt dose by
law. It was, however, said that what had
k1,4141.,g the 'Pope and the bishops was an " inso-
tftt.ol You
If the whole English vocabulary were
Vt, f1;41 could not find stronger terms of insult
(.f „`le bi.. he Roman Catholic religion, the Roman
44'411 -u°Ps, and the 10,000,000 of Roman Catho-
N1:41/.1yere to be found in the replies of the Pro-
'''ae of I.°Ps and clergy to the addresses on the 1
!Nth 1.„"13,a1 aggression. He would read a few extracts
I. tett replies of the Anglican bishops to illustrate his
it, ' •
• ofrThe Bishop of London, in his reply, says :-
etk ,:eads and disgusts the understanding. It makes
aty'llseZLworzliip the creature with the worship due only
Oatilfheir." In another place he speaks of " the auda-
!1111411, Pretensions of the Church of Rome-the base in-
,kl? ,atheethe Church of Rome." (Here he would ask, in
'et IVS, 1.8, of what had the Church of Rome to be grate-
Ti'lf tie it for taking away all her temporalities in the
,elkleht4r,Y VIII., which now amounted to 10,400,0001. ?)
;aih,ektii4,l',° Rome was to peril our salvation. The Ro-
:fAstatC„ bad an unchanging character of evil." This
Vele4srePly of the Bishop of Bath and Wells. From
?11(1s1 the °P of York he found that Rome was always
Ai Kite;,..seaPtivity of the world, and to bring all nations
kfi 'atm,'" bondage. From the Bishop of Gloucester-
:4,44ael;il)tinn was all but blasphemous, and that Popery
;qoi, , Of -ar thing. The Bishop of Oxford said that the
At I,,ildtliit°llll3 roars when necessary, bat uses the meekest
'44,41114N, blandishments when it
.suits her purpose;
,Lii tliii Was a subtile, determined, and unclean
'44' W -c•ngland was defiled by her pollutions.
.The
11);'' kid Chichester said the Church of Rome was into-
ltistit sae assumed a baseless and unscriptural autho-
it4S„ la.,.,‘°ey were vain assumptions. The Bishop of
~FtOtst,""other place, called Rome corrupt, and spoke of
At4o,.,sf Popery." The Bishop of Rochester, that
.vft IVened the minds of the people by its false doc-
k\ The ,!.Biahsp of London spoke of the power of dark-
op of Hereford spoke of the great apostacy of
44S b Thjj'sh
"t e *,.,e°, With regard to the discipline of the Church of
Nl' it,"ll,d ask the House to hear the fathers of the Pro-
NSoseetf,e.u. The Bishop of London spoke of its " errors
~,,,,,,°llB dogmas, alike opposed to Scripture and
'km,: 89erstitions long ago exploded (he doubted
Vere ',on legends displaying the grossest ignorance."
11,1_44,,Le1e• of the elegant extracts. The Bishop of
kitia6illohii:3?errathje "slouchcorrtioofn Romfisthhecogougtisiohnse-h
corruptions-of
ISNIP, bq Oxford spokep with " horror of the doctrines of
14(N,44.;q4 lar:lad, queried that.- (Laughter.) The Bishop of
1 Of i"3 spoke of pestilent errors of Rome. The
IN itPon,. that Popery contained the delusions of
Stktty,. 'the I.s'e Bishop of Oxford, the deed corruptions cf
e, 'A ofrneo of Manchester (we understood)
.spoke of
IN • Th ,ozpish doctrines, and Papal superstition and
tl, of t/t 44) Bishop of Gloucester spoke of the rev; king
fillehteil,o`ll?alar confession, and the monstrous supe!sti-
-0,,111.0,
0,, stantiation. The Bishop of. Oxford. described
t„Vtise ' Rome as corrupt in doctrine and idolatrous
LiNtay was
Then the establishment of a Catholic
i' Lit „ae Scolded in a similar manner. One bishop
N 110,41 a daring aggression "-that was the Bishop
OtAlptjY--" an indecent aggression," Oxford -
'IL I'o4 „ °os aggression," -York-" unparalleled and most
k,,kll,l**gression," London. He had 50 other extracts
Stletieltier3 to addresses, but he had produced enough,
,L sek aot trouble the House further with them. He
01• Olerely to ask the House at which side was the
1. Of 1.,, .
iiad,:ll.l.eoldipg.-(ll.ear.) If they went to Billingsgate
,114.111 e, in Dublin, no language of fishwomen there
o• ~ th:, the language used by the heads of the Church
~.k.,‘lsq-kit fellow-Christians. The language here stated
'i'll, 4? Ministers of the Gospel, who were told by their
'it,eo return good for evil,"-to " do good to those
tltehs'end to pray for:those who persecuted" and calum-
IL vs •`1,.• Had they acted up to their creed? They had
7:11(,,,ead poured this abuse on men who did not wish
, 17, do them a particle of harm.-(Hear.) The whole
.rait•- dispute was this-that Cardinal Wiseman had
‘‘f4t 1(1 he
t ,e te .vrould govern a county. This was not as-
%„ii...tL•rritorial jurisdiction. Cardinal Wiseman had
4 It. 14 Noble Lord (Lord Arunde) had denied it-he
11Li, riltdltn,,d yet there were rogues who :circulated the
1;114 thelt°°ls who believed it.-(Hear, hear.) It had
tki.foitm the Noble Lord's Bill had been emasculated ;
4 tlu.„that one of the clauses went even beyond
tstlet tune of the Emancipation Act. Further, he
tit, Nail there was no necessity for extending the
,ii,,fis ,t,..'' Ile should be sorry that any Member should
tlllistitee him of using insulting or threatening ex-
goaseas a Roman Catholic and an Irishman he de-
* Ile and the Government to carry out the Bill in
lIZI1(1*!;11.Ilight carry it out in England ; but the
betake common cause with the English Roman
tit: ,c,,1f0 they were weak, and because both were
-nt. Kites.
Rh eta tis -, one part of the oman Catholic body and
titti' to Lge whole body. It was said at first that Ire-
rtltlltits 4 °lnitted. Had it been so he should have
11,,.' eat enernment with cowardice and bullying. But
) Thhatie,g, attacked both English and Irish Roman
i '4
- 'us sink swim th - (Hear
latitt bad Y would or together.-(Hear,
er. ,
itl,lstici . great confidence in the Right Hon. Member
ialtZaill. thln the Duke of Wellington, neither of whom
14titiihNIA4 great compact of 1829 to be violated. He
toee L'effa of ille in Lord Stanley, since he had said that
,tt2'eoltwe country ought not to be allowed to stand
;'"ltilttl'a ,It' °f this question. Up till November last no
ea, t'his tanie was more unpopular than that of Lord
~,sph,rnts, ztl°,,,e and illiberality were considered as syno-
t'N'saits r, -out since then Lord Stanley aud the Noble
,4tsd i•-•tord J.Russell) had changed places.-(Hear.)
31 h'e t01.",°13, for he had for twenty years considered
Kell, `4. (Lord John Russell) as the head of the
i;raql estehd looking at the Noble Lord as an enlight-
is,at dorated Whig he had enlisted under his banners
li lt)l•,`,alti°„vt he'had changed his position.-(Laughter.)
Ilt,t'le toZNoble Lord who had changed his position.
tit4i etti,,;,‘l was now at the head -of the bigots. There
k leshr,lsr, uneducated bigot in England that did not
;,meat agape Noble Lord. He was preferring a bill of
Ohm he rlast the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord had
,zy Qitheauld attack the temporalities of the Irish Es-
is Alitati'r,eh-but where was the Noble Lord's appro-
V),l4rath:if Whilst the Noble Lord sat on that bench the
eq5C bee r)• and Liberals thought they had a guarantee
k h° tie 43-',,r,,t'es were not to be infringed. They thought
54'1 tl `ftlia.',W,ould have returned to his liberality, and
kells,,,et is he Roman Catholics ought not to be called
tplt. tc,..rlefite to a small Protestant Church. But the
*tl:4lfoorroe down and told them he would manacle
JO te_ and fetter their religious freedom. This, then,
t,1414Nel tt,"ard for their patience and loyalty. The Noble
,tlltlteiZeY must submit to the affront in •his Bill. He
?Oeils4:'4!tunlal o"r Wteeinwp°onral"Polwtewr asinstahidesethePope had
realms. The
;ode flL° temporal power, and ought not to have any,
it ki,tlik 441 spiritual wished it d
*11)e t his vet power. He
'elitattsteoti.s., _ e the other evening in support of Mr.
ftl'Orti tirl.,wae to . be construed, not as a vote on
,04,seee4 the
in was a vote of
mita, tih_?Lice in the Minister. He was prepared to re-
'altt,s;asie7a votes.-(Hear.) If he did not vote anew d-
-141`f 4;4 tlltti,o he dared not show his face in Ireland. He
e. ,),*o,,Leir,l3ler Parliaments had withheld supplies be-
ftqk tilts 10"111° not entrust the money with the then Mi-
ka4 to t 11, g as the Algerine and insulting measure
'it tat vote Man Catholics was on the table he was pre-
Vat", h!fgainst the Ministry who could make such an
tS'lreill'aeoP.erdonable assault on the religion of his fel-
-141,1% 4etrace., He could promise the Ministers this-un-
t,,
,(IR,iss', their steps, adopted civil and religious
Aer everned, not merely garrisoned, Ireland, they
i4kit,ota.a.'ave Roman Catholic votes nor Liberal Pro-
Vllloe aViear.) It had been asserted he did not
!NeNitkotio-tording to the merits of the question (Mr.
tt.y kli era)
Mille
he saw no merits at all in the question.
Nitkovtlfe eti-le had only voted to show he had no con-
-0441, e it, 2nistry. He had learned this recently, that
e Nvolitics was only a move for office. He be-
tit ati,4oceti°o!ectionists were anxious to get into office.
t'l)ttli,j/geraiSti a small position-the position of illus-
Jeintoir ntriln that House ; but by keeping together and
1), tbilld otes they had it in their power to say which
ha t:refo„ lIPY the Treasury benches.-(Hear.) He
t 6 ~,aft „te I,,,riaake an offer. lie was in the market.
1 7 ltiat 71ght on these terms. He would push one
V,°llla -u°oll, and place another on that beach,
ttk 1, Enna first to abandon the Ministerial
15,.. and then N 1
fb,.• 34.4 Th;,,men to bring in a Bill to prevent the
IV Ike sot-I-irons from dying in the workhouses.-
'S
144,,t0p to;,,?nler support them on the condition that
;letile repv,lare . the system under which 270 paupers had
klsttiot the
One week-that they introduced mea-
N it,,ree only interest now left in Ireland,.the
i„,hrtiothat :lilt, which now suffered from their one-B+d
'!l,'llt,t, 11 of the should legislate for Ireland as an m-
qttkitl ohjtue empire; and for the purpose of making
hi k,,,,ad her of their oppression, but what God and na-
s kiret ati, for, the right arm, and not the drag-chain,
pltil tl?Ils th mighty empire.-(Hear.) No man was
ti?-Itwo'n he to draw close the bonds of connexion
ItL :tide ofetc'hnntries. He had occasionally preached on
s" e
taxitti se Channel, not religious, but political
'te4,,, b sn which had always been to draw cic,ber
4414 t())11u of the two countries, so that Ireland
1' Industry of England, might profit by her

prosperity, and be—what unfortunately she was not--a
nation of freemen, enjoying the comforts and necessaries of
life, instead of what she was—a degraded community of
paupers.—(Hear, hear.) He would not say that the present
race of Englishmen had reduced her to that state, but their
ancestors had by their legislation marred her advancement.
It was now their duty to retrace their steps, and to adopt a
wiser and wore humane course. Speaking as a Roman
Catholic, ho looked upon the present Bill as an open and
wanton insult to his country.—(Hear.) At the same time,
he begged to be understood as not speaking in a sectarian
spirit. The population of the United Kingdom numbered
about 30,000,000. Of that number a third were Roman Ca-
tholics; another third were Episcopal Protestants, and the
remaining third was composed of all other sects. They were
therefore a mixed community of Christians, which name, if
they deserved, they ought at once to renounce this anti-
Christian Bill, which was far more calculated to make them
hate than love one another, and ;which, if persisted in, wou:d
make them the laughing-stock of the world.—(Cheers.)
Sir B. HALL wished to offer a very few observations on
the subject, as it was his intention to give a decided vote in
favour of the second reading of the Bill.—(Cheers.) The
Honourable Member who had just spoken had told the
House that he and those who usually acted with him were
a marketable commodity, and were ready on the present
occasion to dispose of themselves to either the one party or
the other who should reject this measure.--(Hear, hear.)
He thought it would be well if, before attempting to pur •
chase the Honourable Gentleman and his friends, any
party on that side or the other should first inquire the value
which the Honourable Gentleman and his friends put on
themselves, and then consider whether they were worth the
price. —(A laugh.) If they looked to the conduct of these
Hon. Gentleman, voting as they had done, first on one side
and then on the other—if they watched their proceedings,
he would say since 1832, about which time they first ap-
peared in the House, they would find that protesting against
the Government, and declaring against the coercion Acts of
that Government, they had. nevertheless, given that Go-
vernment their support.—(Hear.) He believed that they
would again be ready to make an outcry, and be again found
supporting the Government against whom they raised it.
He had been much pleased with the admirable and tempe-
rate tone of the speech of the Noble Lord who moved the
amendment, that the Bill be read a second time
that day six months. The Noble Lord had stated that from
1598 down to the present time no demand had been made by
the Roman Catholics of this country for a hierarchy, and
that it had been considered unnecessary by the Pope.—
(Hear.) If that were so, where was the necessity now, in
1850, of the Pope coming forward and taking a step which
very properly had been called an aggression on the Crown of
this country ? (Hear, hear.) He was unable to see any
necessity for the appointment of these bishops. The vicars
apostolic had sufficed for the wants of the Roman Catholic
inhabitants of this country, and there was no occasion for
the late proceedings, except for the pu•pese of giving power
to Roman Catholic bishops. Had he been a member of the
Romish Church he should have protested against the as-
sumption of any such powers.—(Hear, hear.) They all knew
that they had protested against the attempt of one of the
prelates of their own Church to introduce a Bill which would
have increased the powers of the episcopal body, and that
they had defeated that attempt.—(Hear.) It had been said
that the feeling of the country was not opposed to the late
aggression of the Pope. After the manifestation which had
taken place nothing could be more absurd or more fatal
than to indulge in such a supposition. He was surprised
that any one dared to make such an assertion after the re-
turns moved for by the Hon. Member for Warwickshire had
b en laid en the table. It appeared from those returns that
every county in England, with the extraordinary exception
of Kent—the seat of the archiepiscopate—had held meetings
on the subject—that hundreds of thousands had met together
for the purpose of testifying against the assumption of these
ecclesiastical titles, and that no less than 1,604,000 persons
had signed the addresses presented to her Majesty on the
subject.—(Hear, hear.) It might be said that those ad-
dresses had come from the clergy and from the rural districts,
where no great liberality of sentiment existed.—( Hear, hear.)
That was not the case. He had the honour to represent a
portion of this metropolis remarkable for the liberal opinions
of its inhabitants—St. Pancras. In that parish there were
18,500 householders, and he had presented a petition signed
by 14,363 of those householders, praying the House to take
measures for the purpose of marking their indignation at
such aggression, and for effectually checking it.—(Hear.)
An appeal had been made in this question to religious liberty.
—(Hear, hear.) It was to prostitute the phrase so to use it.
—(Hear.) They were now endeavouring to legislate for re-
ligious liberty, and against religious domination.—(Cheers.)
Roman Catholic Members had talked as if their religion
was so excessively tolerant. He believed it was the Hoa.
Member for Mayo who said that if he ware asked why there
was greater religious freedom in Great Britain than Rome,
he would answer that it was because England was England.
But why did not the Hon. Gentleman reverse the proposition
and strengthen the argument by saying that it was because
Rome was Rome.—(Hear.) Because the Roman Church
had ever been and still was intolerant. (No, no.) If the
Hon. Gentleman had ever been at Rome, he would have
known that Protestants were not allowed to worship God
within the walls. No one surely could:have the presumption
to deny that. Was the Hon. Gentleman aware that his
Protestant fellow-subjects who died at Rome were buried in
a remote corner of the city—that no prayer was allowed to
be said over their body—that no monument could be erected
to a father or child without the sanction of the Propaganda,
or if allowed, that no inscription c.uld be put on without the
sanction of that society?
Sir W. BARRON—That is not true. I have erected one
myself to a friend.
Sir B. HALL - The Hon. Baronet might contradict him,
but he must excuse him if he did not stand corrected by him.
—(A laugh.) He could tell the Hon. Baronet of an instance
with regard to a person of his own country who had died at
R me. After a great deal of trouble permission was at last
granted for the erection of a tombstone, but no inscription
having any allusion to Scripture, or any extract from Scrip-
ture, was allowed. The person promised that he w uld not
put a Scriptural inscription on the stone, but would write
some Latin verses, and lay them before the Propaganda for
their sanction. They were as follows:

. evils on this subject which it were sought to be suppressed
by legislation, but what was the result? The Catholics
were found to be a dangerous political party, but by legis- '
lation it was found they were made more dangerous, and le-
gislation against them was abandoned. Had anything occur-
red since then to induce a retrograde policy? Though it I
might be true that the character of the Romish Church was
inflexib!e—that its principles in the abstract were immut-
able—though it might be true if it gained political ascen-
dancy, another Marian persecution might follow—he did not
say it would, but would assume it—he could not be blind to
the fact that the relation between that Church and the po-

_ .
laical powers of Europe had been altered, and that they must
now look to the matter as statesmen, divested as much
as possible of the prejudices of the past. Let them look at
the actual state of things and say whether they_had not to
deal with the Roman Catholic Church more as a religious
than as a political opponent.—( Hear, hear.) Its religion was
embraced by 7,000,000 or 8,000,000 of our follow-subjects,
who could not be induced to abandon it. The notion of a
divided allegiance was exploded. The same arguments
were now used which Blackstone, in his Commentaries,
referred to, when he stated that the mark of high treason
was set on Popish priests cn a civil and not on a religious
account, " for every Popish priest of course renounces his
allegiance to bis temporal sovereign on taking orders, that
being inconsistent with his new engagement of canonical
obedience to the Pope. And the same may be said of an
obstinate defence of his authority here in a formal reconcilia-
tion to the See of Rome, which ?he statute construed to be
a withdrawing from one's natural allegiance." They had,
however, decided that their legislation should not be based
on such a principle. Roman Catholics denied a divided alle-
giance, for they said they gave the Pope nothing which the
Crown claimed.—(Hear,hear.). Having given them political
rights, was it consistent to invade that prior and more
sacred right—religious freedom ?—(Hear, hear.) Then he
would ask the question, whether there was any ground in
the argument, that that which had been done was a matter
fit for legislation, as a violation of the public law of Europe.
—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of
State for the Home Department considered that if anything
was demonstrable it was that, namely, that a violation of the
public law of Europe had taken place. Now he would ask,
what was that which was called the public law of Europe?
A total misconception existed upon that point. What was
called the public law of Europe, was in fact a generalisation
of the usages, practices, and customs of the different coun-
tries in Europe; and if they looked into those they would
find that nearly the whole of them were taken from coun-
tries in which the Roman Catholic religion was the established
religion of the State.—("Hear" from the Irish Members.) The
case of an established religion was entirely different from
one which was purely on a voluntary principle. There
were the cases of Prussia and the Netherlands, where the
establishment was on a small scale, and where certain ar-
rangements under a concordat were carried out. Under the
system here prevailing the recognition of the prelates of the
Church was granted, and even the clergy paid, so that it was
not at all extraordinary that a condition should be attached
to these privileges that no new institutions should be intro-
duced without the concurrence of the Crown.— ( Hear, hear.)
In Denmark they did not tolerate the Roman Catholic reli-
gi nat all. And with respect to Buss;a, - that was not a
happy country to draw a parallel from, for it was there pu-
nishable by banishment and confiscation of goads for a man
to go from one religion to another.—( Hear, hear.) We
were not likely t learn mach in the way of religious tolera-
tion from Russia.—(Hear, hear.) it was quite a fallacy to
suppose that this country should deal with these blab ps and
sees in a manner different from that in which they dealt with
other ecclesiastical questions.—(Hear, hear.) With respect
to the speech of the Noble Lord in introducing that mea •
sure, he thought it must have struck everybody that, able
as that speech undeniably was, the last part of the speech
was an answer to the beginning.—( Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord had referred to what was done in various other
countries, and also to what happened here in the time of
William the Conqueror and Edward I. But dia the Noble
Lord adopt the policy of either of those two princes? No
such thing. - (Hear.) Did he adept the policy of the foreign
states referred to? He did not. Some of these regulations
were to the effect that every n'wspaper issued for the regu-
lation of the Roman Catholic Church should have the ssal
of the sovereign, or some official attached to it. in order to
give it iorce and effect the kingdom. Did the Noble Lord
propose to do anything of that sort? He did not; for the
country would eanction no such plan, the Protestant
fee ing of the nation would vote against such a measure
Thee what had the Noble Lord been doing on that occasion ?
There was no mid .tle course for them. They should take
upon theme elves the responsibility of giving those privileges
and advantages to the Roman Catholics, and allow them
to make their own arrangements for their own ecclesiastical
matters, or protest against the voluntary system and the
principle of religious liberty; and, instead of facilitating their
management, prohibit their practice altogether.—(Hear.)
Such a course as the 1 Ater would not certainly be in accord-
ance with the principle of civil and religious liberty.— (Hear.)
In selgium he was informed they could make as many
bishops as th -y pleased.—(Hear.) The only limit was that
the people would say, under certain circumstances, " If yon
make more bishops than we want we won't keep them."
Belgium, then, was an exception. Then there were our
Anglo-Saxon brethren on the other side of the Atlantic;
did they interfere, he would ask, with the appointment of
bishops ? They did no such thing; they permitted such ap-
pointments to be made whenever deemed necessary. Even
in the free states of South America, where after the revolu-
tion the concordat with Rome had been broken, the Pope
had since made many ecclesiastical appointments, which
had never been questioned.—(Hear.) The next argument
to which he would refer was the assertion that this act of

the rope's was an insult to the Qleen's supremacy, and an
invasion of territorial power—that it was, in fact, an as•
gumption of political power, and not a mere ecclesiastical
arrangement. Now, he confessed he was not an advocate
for the manner in which the act complai."4 of had been dor.:
it seemed to him to have been arr- presumptuo
—(Hear, hear.) But he did n( t would be a
good reason for their legislating v +.—(Hear.)
If her Majesty was really insul , the. was not one
amongst them that would think th scarcely anything Which
oould be done would be sufficient o vindicate such an out-
rage.— (Hear. ) Never in the history of this country was
there one who filled the throne of these realms with more
dignity, or whose virtues in private life were more estimable
and worthy of imitation than our present gracous Sovereign.
(Hear, hear.) If he could view that act as an insult to the
Queen, there was no extent of legislation to which be would
not be prepared to go— (Hear) although, perhaps, that
would not quite justify him. But he thought it was the best
course to pursue in public as well as in private life —namely,
not to resent as an insult that which we were not sure was

" quo claris fneram prolate puellis,
11la ego hoc brevi condita sum tumulo
Cui formam pulcherrimam charitis tribuere decoram
Quam Deus cunctis artibus erudiit."
These :verses containing more fa'se quantities than they did
lines, were allowed to be put on the tomb, and yet not one
single allusion to Scripture was permitted.- (Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman said he would not refer to that portion
of the Bill which had been withdrawn. With regsrd to
synodical action, be, it he had been a Roman Ca' holic, w uld
have opposed it. If any attempt had heen made to give the
bishops of the Church of England that species of synodical
action which would have allowed them to interfere with tem-
poral affairs, in the same way as Roman Catholic bishops did,
he should have been ready to oppose that proposition. The
oble Lord who introduced the Bill had shown that the mo-
ment the Roman Catholic prelates met in synod, they did in-
terfere in temporal matters..- (Hear.) They were 'agents
of the Pope, and though they had every species of religious
freedom, he thought the moment they interfered in temporal
affairs the people of this country had a right to rise up and
denounce such interference. He wished to make one re-
mark as to the manner in which the present Bill would be
brought into operation. If he understood t measure, no
pr ceedings could be taken under it without sanction of
the Attorney-Gene al. Last session the ltor-General
stated that if any person felt aggrieved on uu,;c gr unds,
such was the state of the law that he had only to lay the
case before the Attorney-General, who w uld endorse it
with the formula "let right be done." But in a case like
the present, he thought it ought to bb open to anybody to
prosecute for the essumption of ecclesiastical titles. - (Hear,
hear.) The largest and broadest powers ought to be given
n such a case, and the initiative ought not to be left to the
caprice of the Attorney-General for the time.-(Hear, hear.)
In making these observations he might be denounced as one
careless of religious liberty. It was hardly fair to put such
a construction up .:n hie words, for his desire was to treat the
question as a temporal one, and as one relating to the pre-
rogative of the Crown. Whilst he wishei to declare on the
one hand that the Pope should not have temporal power in
this country, he wished-also to de•tlare to the Sovereign that
they would not allow a divided allegiance iu matters depend-
ing on the authority of the Crown. It was on these grounds
alone that he had come to the determination to support the
second reading of the Bill.—(Cheers.)
Mr. R. PALMER wished to state the reasons which
would lead him to vote against the second reading of the
Bill--(Cheers from the Irish Members.) He was far from
being insensible to the deep and strong feelings which had
been manifested by the people of this country on this ques-
tion. If he could have believed that that expression of feel-
ing really conveyed the deliberate and well-considered
opinion of the country that legislation of this kind was re-
quired to protect the interests of the public and to deliver the
country from any political danger, he should have hesitated
before trusting to any conclusions to which he might have
come in opposition to it. But from what he had seen he be-
lieved that the public did not view it as a political question,
but as a mixed political and religious question. In approach-
ing the subject from this point of view, which every speaker
seemed to think the right one—not the theological but the
political view—he confessed he was much more alive to the
dangers which would follow from wrong legislation to the
great principle of civil and religious liberty than to any ins-
maginary political danger from the aggressions of the Church
of Rome. It was necessary to start with a clear and distinct
view of what was meant by civil and religious liberty in this
country, for if they did that they would sweep away a large
portion of the arguments in favour of the Bill, and of those
other arguments which drew a fine distinction between
spiritual and ecclesiastical things. He should not forget to
deal with the question as between the Church and Protestant
Dissenters. In this country, in which so much liberty was
given in ecclesiastical and spiritual matters to Churches and
religious bodies not connected with the State, Dissenters
were allowed to make ecclesiastical arrangements—to hold
synods and assemblies. The Free Church of Scotland, which
dated its origin as of yesterday, and which separated from
the Established Church because it (the Free Church) would
gn
oovt
errencmo genaits,ei
mt the
epdriiantceilpyl
oe
noift
out Scotland a vast parochial system,
SsetpataeratinintnernfergreannciesedinthCrohnugrchh.
ses-
sions, presbyteries, synods, and assembly.—(
eim y. (Hear.►
k
therefore, be e
fore, should episcopacy dseineadh thats iia t consistinghw is h which
huf
nk)i
t hadrrkrw
rbhehaey
allowed to presbytery? The W
their meetings and conference—the
i
cal arrangements which the
CPhreasrbeyhtiehriasnesotolafaUdlwstaear
allowedha d their
to
o synods—make
those a nd thel Episcopalese e
conviction of its members thought right, and all without the
interference of the State. He was perfectly aware that it
was said that such liberty was inapplicable to a Church con-
nected with a head in a foreign country.—
(Hear) He should
have to consider that point in the course of his observa-
tions. It was impossible to understand it unless they first
got a notion of what was meant among themselves by
religious liberty. They would also have to consider the prin-
ciple of finality in ecclesiastical arrangements, and say
whether or not they should not be changed and developed.
If the principle of freedom in ecclesiastical arrrangemets
were to be allowed, how extravagant to say that because a
particular Church had for centuries been content with mis-
sionaries it should not be allowed to have bishops, or because
it had not had synods during the same time it should not
possess them when it required them. —(Hear, hear.) Must
not the Church itself be the judge of what it requires in a
different state of things ?—(Hear ) If what it did interfered
with the State then 1-t the State step in, but to make our-
selves the judges whether the things desired by the Church
were requisite or salutary for it or not, savoured in the last
degree of persecution.(Hear.) Before he entered upon the
difficulties attached to the question he must remind them
that the Roman Catholics held as a first principle the
supremacy of the Pope in ecclesiastical matters. - ( Hear,
hear.) To say that they tolerated Roman Catholics,
but excluded this principle, would be a practical
contradiction.—(Hear, hear.) Ho wished to consider
whether, the principle which they recognised in other
religious bodies was inapplicable to the case of the
Roman Catholics. Abstractedly viewed he acknowledged
there was an important distinction between them. He ad-
mitted that the other religious communities of British sub-
jects acknowledged no foreign interference. He did not
deny the difficulty, but wished to suggest that it did not lie
at the root of the Church question, but at the roc', of that
question -c;heit they settled len2; ago when they disagreed
whether they should grant buieration to the Roman Catholic
religion—whether they should be allowed to have a priest-
hood at all.—(Hear.) No doubt there were in past times

intended as such.—(Hear, hear.) For his part he did not
believe that any insult was meant in the present instance.
He thought that, whether, ustifiable or not, that act was not
done as an insult.—(Hear, hear.) Neither did he think it
was a territorial invasion. He could not feel that it w•s

for any other object then to organise a diocesan episcopancy,
for the ecclesiastical regulation and management of certain
localities. These were not words of political meaning. That
was a language which existed in the Church many centuries
ago, before anybody had ever heard of politics at all.
(Hear, hear.) IN hen one heard of the Bishops of Smyrna
and Antioch, one did not think that they claimed any ter-
ritorial authority in these places.— (Hear, hear.) What was
proposed to 1,0 done by that Bill? To take away that
diocesan epiretoPky, and legislate, in fact, against a name
more than anything hise. The Hon. end Learned Member
here referred to the cireumetances of officers of the Viceregal
Court in Ireland forgetting the clauses of the Emancipation
Act, and calling the Roman Catholic bishops in the lists of
the Castle by their ecclesiastical titles. But by what they
proposed in the present Bill, if a free Episcopal Church
was to be formed in England to-morrow, it would
be prohibited as well as a Roman Catholic one. - ( Hear. )
With reaped to the operation of the measure in Scotland,
he considered it would be equally mischievous as to eccle-
siastical titles. He could not hunk, therefore, that this was
an assumption of territorial „dignity. or a usurpation of the
temporal power of theggo He r.) He thought when
the absurdity et.;tilt tffiaindion between these new bishops
and the vicars aOstelic came t'; be known, it would cause a
good deal of wonder. It was said, indeed, by some that the
establishment of the vicars apostolic was an excellent arrange-
ment ; and that nobody had objected to them. The fact
was, they were nearly identical. Yet the Hon. Baronet, the
Member for Marylebone, world not tolerate one when be
would the other. It was well known that no arrangement of
the Roman Catholic Church in this country was made with
the consent of the Crown. The vicars apostolic had been
thus appointed: In the time of Gregory XV. a certain per-
son, named William Bishop of Chalcedon, had been made a
vicar apostolic in this country. The Hon. and Learned
Member referred to the bull by which this appointment had
been made, and which was as follows : —" Qui auctoritate et
jurisdictions vicarii episcopi generalis fulciatur, quoque per-
sones omnes, tam ecclesiasticas quam laical, intra Angliam
degentes, secundurn canones et ecclesiaticas consuetudines
regat et gubernet." In the time of Benedict XII., in 1688,
another appointment of a like kind had been made, and it
had been done in the same way as the present matter had
been done. In his recent letter the Pontiff had declared that
England bad already been divided into four districts ; each
of which had had a vicar apostolic at its head ; and
that this had so lasted till the time of Gregory XVI. Thee
districts were the London, the Western, the Midland, and
the Northern. In the time of James 11., and some time before
his abdication, the bishops of the Church of England had
made an appeal to him on the subject of these four vicars
apostolic it was as follows :—" If you would please, by
your R ;yal proclamation, to inhibit the four Romish bishops
who style themselves vicars apostolieal, and by a foreign
authority, not derived from your Crown, ride circuit in the
land, and have presumed to cantonise this your kingdom
inte four provinces, and to divide it among themselves
(having printed maps of it apcordingly), exercising therein
a jurisdiction, of which the respective bishops have been
long poasest, and which by the laws of England belong un-
questionably to them." What was the difference, he would
ask, between those and the lately appointed parsons? No
difference whatsoever, except that some were called vicars
apostolic, and the others were called bishops; in one case
the locality over which they presided was called a district—
in the other a diocese.—(Hear, hear.) There was no
difference except in name. The thing was for some time
now in operation, and he thought sufficiently long to show
them that it was after all but an ecclesiastical arrangement;
and while it remained so the Hon. Member for Marylebone
thought it the best arrangement in the world.—(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) The Noble Lord at the head of
the Government had referred to the manner in which political
matters had been introduced into the discussions of the
synod which had been held in Ireland. No sooner had they
assembled than they had begun to meddle with politics.
Now, it should be remembered that the principle of civil as
well as of religious liberty belonged to an eccl [esiastic as well
as to any other individual—(Hear)—and one could not pre-
vent, if freedom was permitted to a voluntar3 r Church, the
pastor of that Church from deliberating on an d taking notice
of those public questions which touched the be ;undaries of re-
ligion on the one hand, and concerned the Sta to on the other.
—( Hear, bear.) Whatever they did they ha ci no right in a
free country to prevent any class of men fro in meeting and
hexeaprr.) TheopinionessinganHoa.
Baronet upentbwehilitebacobnecrernfoerd
Othafiem,rd.leireaßr.,
H, Inglis) had designated the Irish Colleges as " Godless."
Now, if his opinion was true the other pettier ; had a right to
express a similar opinion upon the same sub ject, and it not
true they had as good a right to change it at id be mistaken
as the Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the
landlord principle he found the synod giving exhortations to
their sufferings
tt
oh e
bp
ee o
Ipelde taos
torbaeyy
bt the e laws underinstigators, ol cim t o
nos , aces,matterand n w
hoa tt
might be. In this fries ; country no
party could be blamed for addressing his p; oorer fellow-
subjects in the language of advice, and if some sympathy for
their condition should be manifested it could not be consi-
dered strange or unnatural. The State was so much in-
debted to that religion, which had for one of its maxims,
" Fear God, honour the King," that they Blau aid give some
latitude to those who taught that religion,, even if it was
liable sometimes to degenerate into excess .--(Hear.) Ile
had no fears for the Church of England fro ea the efforts of
Rome ; on the contrary, the openness of th, use efforts made
them less dangerous. All that the Pope 1 lad done was to
change four vicars apostolic into eight bisl lops, and he did
not see what effect that could have against he Crown or the
Parliament of this kin doin. There ;night be circumstances
under which they might be called upon to legislate, but he
did not think the present was one of them
..--(Hear, hear. )
The present Bill was not effective; it did z lot touch the evil
! it was intended to meet,—(Etear, hear.) gpw it could be

notwithstanding their delay in convoking Parliament, the
greater part of their measure, when introduced, had been
found by themselves, and not by their antogonists, to be
either inadequate to its object, or to go further than that
object; and having themselves become ashamed of it, they
had asked Parliament to allow them, in part, to withdraw it.
Now, it appeared to him (Sir R. H. Inglis) that the pre-
amble of the Bill was miserably insufficient for meeting the
requirements of the case. The preamble ought, in his
opinion, to have recited all the previous statutes which pro-
hibited that species of aggression, and likewise the Papal
brief and the apostolic letter which had produced
that excitement and agitation throughout the country.
The Bill itself ought, at the same time, to have been
much more stringent and extensive in its operation, for it
would leave untouched some of the greatest evils to which
the Papal system had given rise in this country. His Hon.
and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth (Mr. R.
Palmer) said that they ought not to legislate any further
upon that subject. because they had already recognised the
existence of the Roman Catholic priesthood among us ; but
he (Sir R. 11. Inglis) denied that former concessions should
be taken as a plea for perpetual wrongs and aggression.
Six weeks ago he (Sir R. H. Inglis) would have said that
the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government was the per-
sonification of the character which the late SidnerSmith
ascribed to him when he declared that in whatever else the
)ioble Lord might be deficient, no man surpassed him in
courage; but that criality had now deserted him. Why
should the Noble Lord recede? He had not been defeated
by a F °stile division, and, if his present course was not
attributable to the weakness of his Cabinst, it must be the
result of some influence not obvious to the world. The
Noble Lord's conduct brought to his recyllectim the lines
written upon a personage whom he would not then name,
who—

worth the while of the country to have such an agitation on
this subject from one end to the other-how it could be
worth the while of Parliament to be thus discussing it, hav-
ing postponed all financial arrangements, and other more
important questions, was more than he could answer, and he
would leave to others to explain ; but he did not conceive he
should be doing his duty by those great principles of civil
and religious liberty, if he did notenter his protest against
the Bill before the House.-(Cheers.)
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that his Hon. and Learned Friend
who had just sat down had concluded his elaborate and in-
genious, but, he was bound to ache his fallacious speech, with
the expression of an opinion, in vhieh he (Sir R. H. Inglis)
entirely concurred, and to which it was not, therefore, neces-
sary that he should further advert. Neither would he be
tempted by the allusion made to himself to enter into a
consideration of what he might nave formerly said on the
question of the systen of education which bawd been intro-
duced into Ireland be the povernment of Sir R. Peel. It
was enough for him io say that he had not renounced the
opinions he had formsrly expreesed upon that point. But he
should observe that lis Hon. and Learned Friend bad, in his
opinion, proceeded on a great fallacy in all his historical re-
ferences. His Hon. nod Learned Friend had talked of the
Episcopal Protestant Church of Scotland, of the Free Church
in that country, of the Wesleyan Conference, and of the
possibility of a Free Zpiscopal Church springing up in this
country; and then hs Hon. and Learned Friend had asked
whether they were prepared to legislate in any one
of those cases. Bit there was an essential differ- ,
ence between those cases and the act of aggression
whic% they had then to consider. All the relig ous commu-
nities to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had referred
f 'rmed a system of internal organisation, and were dependent
on no parties except their own volun ary ass •ciations.-
( Hear, hear.) But the Jody with which they had then to
deal was one, owing at least a divided, if not an entire,
allegiance to a foreign power.- (Hear, hear.) He had him-
self held ie his hand that day a petition from the Wesleyan
Conference, in which the petitioners stated that they refused
to recognise the Sovereigr of another state as the fountain of
honour and authority it this country. It was that fact
which constituted the geat and fundamental distinction
between the cases to which his Hon. and Learned Friend had
referred, and the case on vhich they had then to decide. In
order to show the pculiar position occupied by
Roman Catholics in this aid in other countries, he had
only to quote a passage from the eminent person who had
been sent over by the Pope to govern the spiritual affairs
of England. " The Caholics," said Dr. Wiseman
or Bishop Wiseman, " arelot, and never have been, merely
a collection of persona holding certain opinions in
common, but they are t systematised and organised
religious community, (presenting here the Ca-
tholic Church of the iniveree."- (Hear, hear.) The
fact was that the Roman Ctholics of England could never
be treated as a distinct religous body, such as the Wesleyan
Methodists or the members f the Free Chtirch of Scotland.
They were portions of a genre' system, which, to quota the
celebrated apostolical letter," revolved round the centre of
unity." They had always wird that the Church of Rome
whether it expressly sougit or not to enforce its claim-
did in effect assume that it possessed a right over every bap-
tised person in the Christian vorld ; and when that circum-
stance had been referred to of a late occasion, an Hon. Mem-
ber added, "And so it ought.' And then, again, the Noble
Lord who had moved the amendment which they were then
considering had told them hat his Church claimed every
baptized soul. They should remember, therefore, that they
bad to deal with a Church wiich admitted no salvation out
of its limits, and which, in consequence, very justly and con-
sistently claimed the care of (eery person who had ever been
baptised. He hardly liked tofollow the Noble Lord in his
reference-a reference which must have been painful to
himself-to the number of etoman Catholic Peers who
had resisted the aggression made by the chief of their
religion; and he would not quote their names.
But this he would say of them, that, while they
were pre-eminent in rani% they were not inferior
in talent and in character to ttose whose address had been
presented by Mr. Langdale to Dr. Wiseman. The Hon.
Gentleman who had seconded the amendment had referred
with peculiar pleasure to who, had fallen from his Right
Hon. Friend the Member for Ripon (Sir J. Graham), and
from a Noble Earl is anotherpiace (the Earl of Aberdeen),
upon that subject. But the Nable Earl in question, and his
Right H n. Friend too, if he was not much mistaken, had
spoken of the aggression itself in language as strong as that
of his Noble Friend at the head of the Government,
or as that of any Member of either House of Par-
liament. The Hon. Gentlomat the Member for the city of
Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) sh uld not, therefore, console him-
self with the vote of his Right lon. Friend, and forget the
countervailing character of his seeech in reference to the ag-
gression which had given rise o the Bill. The difference
between his Right Hon. Frient and those who were dis-
posed to deal with the case by legislative enactment, was
not as to the character of the *egression, but merely as to
the mode it which it should b, met. There were persons
who thought that it ought to bo met with all the powers
of ;he law, while there were otters who thought that such
a mode of? proceeding would be improper and inefficient.
But they were both opposed to that measure which had
roused the country from oue en( of it to the other. The
Eight Hon. Baronet the Member for Marylebone (Sir B.
I-fall) had told them of the number of persons who had
signed the petitions presented aganst that act of aggression.
ana of those who had signed the address to her Majesty-a
number greater perhaps than hoc ever before signed any
similar documents. And what was the body from which the
first and most important expression of opinion had emanated ?
Why, it was that distinguished boiy of which his Hon. and
.earned Friend was himself a member, and of which he and
smother were the only two who hal not signed the address
agreed to upon the subject.- (Hear, hear.) Then again, that
important and influential, and by no means specially bigotted
body, the attorneys and solicitors, had, to the number of
6,50 i joined their supplications to those which had proceeded
from so many other quarters, praying that effective measures
might be taken to meet that ac; of Papal aggressi n.
Whether the measure then under their consideration was
kdequate to the attainment of its prcfsssed object he would
dot then stop to inquire. All he desired to state was, that he
Would receive the least instalment in respect to a principle.
The principle for which he contended was contained in the
Bill, and be should, therefore, support it. But at tha same
time he was quite ready to admit that he was not satisfied
with the general conduct of her Majesty's Government upon
the subject, any snore than he was satisfied with the parti-
cular measure then before the House. On the 22d of October
last, the first news had arrived in England of that whica the
Pope had decreed on the 29th of September. Was there no
mode by which her Majesty's Goverrment could have met
that aggression, except by the Bill they had introduced into
that Howse on the 7th of February'- (Hear.) His Hon.
Friend the Member for Newark (M.-. J. Stuart) had sug-
gested on a late occasion that there was a constitutional and
obvious course by which the mind and will of the Crown
might have been made manifest to the Court of Rome;
and that was by a proclamation. A proclamation from
the Crown might or might not, according to its
subject-matter, have a legitimate influence in this
country; but with respect to, foreign countries, a procla-
mation of the Crown was as full and sufficient an
exponent of the will of the Sovereign power among us as
any Act of Parliament to which the Crown was a consenting
party. In a well-known case the Government of Brazils bad
entirely disregarded an Act of Parliament passed in this
country, and had stated that they had nothing to do with
our internal legislation, which could not regulate their con-
duct. He said, therefore, that, so far as foreign countries
were concerned, an Act of Parliament could not have more
force or validity than a proclamation from the Sovereign.
He believed that her Majesty ought, in the first instance, to
have met that aggression on her Crovn and dignity, on the
independence of her realms,:en the integrity of the Church,
and on the faith and conscience of her people, by issuing
at once a proclamation; and let hi
-an sav, that as in
Rome the proclamation of the bull In Cana Domini affixed
to a church in that city was held to be a proclamation to
the whole world, so a proclamation from her Majesty,
wherever it was affixed, might be bald to convey to he
Sovereign of Rome the determined will of the Sovereign of
this country to resist any act of aggression on his part.
But there were other modes in which the will of the Sove-
reign of these realms might have been conveyed to the
Sovereign of Rome On the 29th of February, 1843, a Bill
had been brought down to that House for regulating our dip-
lomatic intercourse with the Court of ilome. That Bill had
not received the Royal assent until the 4th of September
following. It had been forced through the Upper House
with breathless haste, but it bad been suffered to remain six
months in that House without any effort, or at least without
any serious effort, having been made b
r the Government to
ensure its adoption. During that time the people of England
had expressed almost unanimously their opposition to the
measure; petitions, signed by not less than 3,500 members
of the parochial clergy of England, had been presented against
it; and he believed that if her Majesty's Government had
consulted the feelings of the people of England, they would
never have thought of pressing it forward. The 'has],
however, pressed it forward, and the Royal assent had subse-
quently been given to the measure. But What had they done
since? They had by their own mode of proceeding precluded
themselves from that most obvious course of entering into
diplomatic intercourse with the Court of Rome under the
provisions of their own Bill, and they had suffered the
Bishop of Rome to perpetrate an act of aggression which
had excited among us all that indignation, while
by the common intercourse of diplomatic life they
might have explained to the Pope their views, and have in-
duced him to withdraw his proposition.-( Hear, hear.) But
after her Majesty's Government had failed to proceed in that
matter, either by,a proclamation or by diplomatic intercourse,
they had a third alternative open to them. Her Majesty
had a fleet in the Mediterranean, and there were such ports
as Ancona and Civita Vecchia in the Papal dominions.
Those ports, or at least one of them, might have been oppor-
tunely visited by her Majesty's forces, and representations,
diplomatic in their language, might have been conveyed
through the admiral commanding the fleet-(Hear, hear,
and laughter) - upon the subject of the act of aggression, in
the same way in which France and Austria had taken pos-
session of cities and fortresses in the Roman territory for the
purpose of conveying their diplomatic views:-
(Hear, hear,
and renewed laughter.) He saw no reason why England
could not do what France and Austria had done more than
once. But if a proclamation at home had failed-if diplo-
matic interference had failed -if armed intervention had
failed in securing the object of her Majesty's Government,
then her Majesty might have referred to her faithful Com-
mons-to the representatives of her faithful people in
Parliament assembled, and have endeavoured to
persuade them to pass an enactment commensurate
with the danger and the difficulty of the.crisis. If Govern-
ment had to take the law as their alternative, instead of a
oroclamation, or diplomacy, or war-if the matter could not
be settled without legislation, then, he said that Parliament
ought to have been summoned at once ; for if the case doe
served the attention of Parliament at all---if it deserved it
in February, it deserved it in October, and
he could see toe
reason to justify her Majesty's Ministers from asking the
counsel of Parliament in February, which ought not to have
induced them to have asked it when the insult had first been
offered. But in considering the question, they should look
first to the law as it was, and then to the law as it ought to
be. Now, it appeared that twp of the first lawyers in Eng-
land, his Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for
Newark, and the ex-Lord Chancellor of Ireland, had dis-
tinctly stated it as their opinion that the law, as it already
existed, had been violated by that act of Papal aggression,
and he believed that opinion was also entertained by many,
of the highest authorities upon the subject-by Dr. Twins, by•r
Mr. Butt, and by Mr. Warren. It was certainly the opinion
of the collective wisdom of the bar. Now he wished to know
whether her Majesty's Ministers had consulted the law offi-
cers of the Crown upon that subject, and more especially
whether they had consulted the law advisers of the Crown
in Ireland, who would, no doubt, have correctly represented
to them the difficulties of legislating upon the question for
that country. If they had not consulted the law advisers of
the Crown in Ireland, thee they had, in his opinion, been
guilty of a neglect of their duty. He readily admitted that
by the legislation of the last few years the atatutable pe- j
nalties had been withdrawn from Acts of an earlier period
bearing upon that subject; but he had yet to learn that the
penalties at common law attached to such proceedings had
been repealed. He believed that in that matter her
.Majesty's
Government might have appealed to ~he e.1,.tt.:4t,g state
of the law, with as much certainty of success as
anything that wee math:god could bupply. Lat if they
had not done so, they ought at least to have taken counsel
of Parliament at the earliest possible moment. And yet,

" His hand, its skill to try,
Amid the chords bewilder'd laid,
And back recoil'd, he knew not why,
Sc bred at the sound himself had made."
—(Hear, and laughter.) What had scared the Noble Lord?
His Noble Friend m'ght depend upon it that his cele-
brated letter would not have produced the effect it had
produced, were it not that it had re-echoed opinions al-
ready entertained by the great mass of the people of this
country.—(Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had, it seemed,
been deterred by the opposition of his Irish supporters;
but it was clear that he had not succeeded in

conciliating their favour by the mutilation of his measure.
A great statesman ought in such a case to have summoned
his Cabinet together in the first instance, then to have ap-
pealed to the law advisers of the Crown, afterwards to have
called Paliament together, and if Parliament had not re-

sponded to his demands, he might at once have appealed to
the country.—(Hear.) He ( Sir R. H. Inglis) firmly be-
lieved that in that case the country would return such a Par-
liament as would enable him to pass the most efficient mea-
sures he might think desirable upon that subject. His
Honourable and Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth
had said that no person would think at present of placing
Roman Catholics in the position they had occupied thirty
years ago. But he (Sir R. H. Inglis) recollected well that
one of the great arguments advanced in favour of Roman
Catholic Emancipation was, that it would completely satisfy
and pacify the Roman Catholic body; and yet they had
at that moment Roman Catholic Members of that House

praying for a transfer of the whole of the property of
the Established Church in Ireland, although they had

themselves sworn not to do anything to disturb that property.
The conduct of her Majesty's Government upon that ques-
tion had been extremely vacillating and unsatisfactory.
They had, three years ago, received ample intimation that
some such step as V' e recent act of aggression was contem-
p'ated, and yet they hAd taken no precaution to prevent its
occurrence. But they had been told by his Hon. and
Learned Friend the Member for Plymouth that in consider-
ing that question we were not to go to Roman Catholic
countries, but to take countries like our owe. His Hon. and

Learned Friend had referred especially to Prussia, Belgium,
and Russia, and he had said that they could not in any
way take Russia as a standard of opinion or conduct.
He apprehended that the illustration failed in each instance.
There was a concordat between the Pontiff and the King
of Prussia, which there was not in England, and he
trusted in God there never would be.—(Hear, hear.) And
then there was an agreement between the King of the
Netherlands and the Pope. There then the Pope could
create as many bishops as he pleased; but it must be with
the consent of the Sovereign. In Russia no bull would be
permitted to enter the country without the inspection and
authority of a responsible Minister.—(Hear, hear.) He was,
he must say, surprised at the course which his Hon. and
Learned Friend had had taken, even though he was one of
the two leading members of the bar who did not give in
their adhesion to the address on this subject agreed to by the
great and learned body to which he belonged ; yet his Hon.
and Learned Friend had given such a vote on the first divi-
sion on this Billithich led him to hope he would be one of
its supperters ontuthe second reading.—(Hear, hear.) He
had hoped to find Hon. and Learned Friend his supporter
on this occasion ; for though the motion on which they had
divided was that a the adjournment of the debate, still the
real matter at issue was the first reading of the Bill, which
that division decided.—(Hear, hear.) The people of Eng-
land had united on this subject in a stronger manner than
he believed they had ever done on any former occasion, and
their object in doing so was not merely to resist this attack
on the dignity of the Crown and the independence of the
country, but because they believed that the power of Rome
had increased in this country, by having been fostered by

many persons in high place's; that her Majesty's Govern:-
ment had, by their silence in some cases encouraged it,
and by their overt acts they had more unmistakingly en-
couraged it.—(Hear, hear.) What had passed with respect
to the Australian Colonies Bill, what had passed with re-
gard to the W eat India Colonies Bill, made them consider
that her Majesty's Government were favourable to the ascen-
dancy of the Church of Rome in the distant parts of the em-
pire.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand three papers re-
ferring to distant dependencies of the empi,e ; and be told
hialloble Fri, nd that he was not to be esteemed guiltless in
tl.ese transactions as long as he took charge of the general
administration of affairs, and when such results followed from
the policy pursued by their Colonial Minister and the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland. The original concession of territorial
titles was made at the bidding of the Lord-Lieutenant of
Ireland, and it had been but too willingly acted upon by the
Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and what
had followed? He had moved for a return of tlae correspon-
dence that had taken place between her Majesty's Govern-
ment at home and the administration of their Church in the
Australian colonies. He found that a very able address had
been forwarded by the Bishop of Sydney to the Governor of
the Australian colonies, end when he asked for a return of
the answer that had been sent to that address, he was told it

was " nil." He asked why was it not answe-ed ? They ough
to remember that as a communicant of the Protestant Epis-
copal Church of England the Sovereigns of the House of
Brunswick had held, and did still hold, the Crown of these
realms.— (Hear.) He asked them was it fitting that the
Church of that Queen should be placed in a subordinate posi-
tion and its prelates regarded as of inferior rank to the
prelates that had been nominated by a foreign Sovereign, and
that this, too, should be done without her Majesty's know-
ledge or consent?—(Hear.) According to Dr. Wiseman's
doctrine, Roman Catholic prelates did not take their titles
from districts, but from cities. Now let them look to New-
foundland, and they would find the system fostered by their
Colonial Secretary ; they would there find " the Lord Bishop
of Newfoundland" assuming a title conferred by her Majesty
upon ecclesiastics of her own Church. This was done by a
bishop nominated by the Church of Rome. In Trinidad the
Pope had created an archdiocese—this was dose in another
portion of her Majesty's dominiona.—(" Hear, hear" from
Mr. Moore.) Then that was not merely recognised as a fact,
but it was cheered as a matter of congratulation.—(" Hear,
hear," from Mr. Moore.) He asked the Hon. Member if
when the colonies were attached to the Crown of Spain such
an aggression would be submitted to, or the Spanish
Sovereign would, under such circumstances, receive such
an archbishop?—(Hear.) But this was not merely done
in the colonies, but titles were taken from portions of
her Majesty's own dominions. His Noble Priem knew too
much of history and antiquity not to fel that there was
an aggvasioa when the Pope named a Bishop of Menevia,
and thereby took ep scopal possessi,m of the ancient see of
St. David's. Bu the Pope took two other sees—he took
the sees of Shrewsbury and Nottingham, and it they looked
to the Act of Henry VIII. they would find that these were
suffragan bishoprics, and might be called into existence at any
time be her Maje ay. This might ba sad to have been
accident or ignorance, but he believed it was done in ma-
lice prepense, and was a wilful violation of the existing law.
Then in Ireland the Pope had created a Bishop in Galway,
and even since the Papal brief had arrived in England the
Pape had, by his own direct author ty, created a Bishop
o' Ross.—(Hear, hear.) He thanked the House for the
patience with which it had listened to him; but before he
closed he wished to remark that the ground of opposition to
this aggression on the part of the Pope was their strong at-
tachment to the Reformation and their conviction of the
blessings they enjoyed through the Reformation.—(Hear.)
They looked to the state of England before the Reforma-
tion, and since; they contrasted the state of Protestant
England with the state of any Roman Catholic country
whatever. They felt that the contest at issue was one be-
tween light and darkness, between freedom and slavery, be-
tween the development of all the powers of the intellect and
the prostration of all those powers.—(Cheers.) He did not
' then say one word of the religion of Rome, but he referred
to the interference of Rome with the growth of literature and
the spread of science.—(Hear.) The people of England
knew well what were the blessings they had enjoyed person-
ally and socially since the Reformation, and they were of
opinion that those blessings were endangered by every step
taken by the Church of Rome in this country. Though he
never had permitted himself, since the Roman Catholics were
admitted to that House, to state his objection to their reli-
gion which the Scriptures afforded him, still he must say
that the objections that might be made were felt deeply by
the great body of the people of England.—(Hear.) In the
success of the aggression now made they believed that there
was great danger lest the blessings that had been so dearly
purchased, and at such an expense, might be risked and pos-
sibly destroyed. The object of this Bill did not accomplish
all tha.t he desired; but still, such as it was, he was pre-
pared tu take it, and he hoped to find a majority of that
House supporting the second reading.—(Hear, hear.)
Several Members then rose to address the House, but they
all gave way to
Sir R. PEEL, who rose at the same moment. He said he
was quite aware of the responsibility of the task he was now
about to fulfil in attempting thus early at the commence-
ment of his Parliamentary career to trespass on the attention
of that Hon. House ; but the importance of the subject under
discussion induced him to lay aside those scruples which,
under ordinary circumstances, would unquestionably have
silenced him into a mere formal expression of opinion, and
gave him boldness to make the attempt at addressing them.
—(Cheers.) Previous, however, to submitting the few ob-
servations which he should have occasion to offer, he was
desirous of soliciting that courteous attention and forbear-
ance which he believed was invariably extended to all those
who from inexperience in Parliamentary deliberations, or
even of public speaking, and consequently from the novelty
of their position, required that some allowance should
justly be made.—(Hear, hear.) And would that on this, his
first appearance on the floor of that House, he might riot be
altogether unsuccessful in acquitting himself as became the
cause he was about to advocate, as well as of the dignity and
character of that assembly.—(Hear, heat) Before en-
tering on the discussion before the House, he wished to make
a few preliminary observations with the view of estab-
lishing the broad basis upon which be grounded his views of
religious subjects, and more particularly with reference to
religions toleration. It appeared to him natural to conceive
that man was a being endowed with all the faculties neces-
sary for accomplishing what was required of him, and, al-
though the path by which one man pursued his destiny
might apparently be in a totally different direction, or be
subject to totally different appreciations from the course
which another might pursue, yet to all powers of reasoning
were given for discerning, conscience for loving, and liber
ty
for choosing that which was good; and in the gradation
which they had received those gifts of a divine economy he
imagined they would all have to render an account. Althoughlllwii
he e a,: the uncpronvomising advocate of the religion 1
ha was not oni7,' edacsted. but whi.od reason and su )iskeeqiu
1 to
conolusicius had taught bins to consider as the
ni°Btill asYex-
lead to an adequate interpretation of the Divine.w
prfe:ed to us in the Bible, he was prepared unhesitativey to

take his stand and resist every attempt to interfere and tam- ud cheers)—a struggle which, ineascOn.ntry containing
par with the doctrines and spiritual discipline of the Este- little over 2,000,000 of inh bitants, had called forth the best
blished Church. But because he held the Protestant Church efforts of an army of 90,000 men.—(Cheers.) That nation
to be the best, the purest, and the most free from idolatry and had been roused, not to unfold once again on the
superstitious mummer es, he did not on that account wish banner of victory the federal cross against foreign foes,
by any means to control the consciences of others, or de- not in another battle of Mogarten to crush the prid
prive them of the free enjoyment and exercise of that which of Austria, or as against a Maximilian with a view of en-
they might consider as constituting a more efficient rule of forcing the ratification of Swiss independence, not as against
faith.—(Hear, hear.) He looked upon religious toleration France in the 16th century to win a Navara, or to plunuder
as a sacred principle of political economy, and which, acting and lay waste the fertile plains of Burgundy and besiege
in unison with the freest exercise of civil liberty, so far as it Dijon, but, under the influence of religious excitement and
could b 3 rendered compatible with the general interests of animosities, stirred up by artful Jesuits and Papal political
organised society, had secured to them the completest eye- emissaries, to wage a religious war against one another, and,
tern of Government which the wisdom and observation cf in a fratricidal contest, to pour out the most gallant bleed
man had vet devised. He held, therefore, that toleration that ever warmed a patriot's heart on that soil, which, like
ought to be extended to all sects and classes of religious an oasis in the desert, still afforded a last retreat against the
thinkers, without any distinction or limitation being drawn, despotism of Europe,—still preserves intact the hospitable
so long as publisdecency and public peace and tranquillity abode of liberty.—(Loud cheers.) He admitted, indeed, it
did not suffer from the exercise of the doctrines or was with difficulty he could control his feelings and main-
peculiar views of any religion. (Hear, hear.) When tain that rigid and impartial observance which the Noble
therefore the State was called upon to legislate upon matters Lord had absolutely imposed on. him, when he witnessed
affecting ecclesiastical subjects, what delicacy, what for- tee iniquity and intolerance with which Rome had fos-
bearance, what circumspection, was it not necessary to em- tered these dissensions, and that: after the capitulation of
ploy, so that, while wielding the temporal sword to repress Freibourg she had been instrumental in inducing Lucerne to
abuses, not to shock the spiritual susceptibilities or estrange prolong a hopeless contest.—(Ch eers.) The country had
the loyalty of those whose religious tenets might be, as in hardly yet recovered the consequet ices of that struggle and
the United Kingdom' at variance with those of a majority the shock of contending parties. The horrors of war, the
of the people? It should be remembered that religion was losses, misery, the ruinous expense it entailed were only
the chief bond of human society; that history, as well as his relieved by the greatest forbearan.oe and met by the greatest
personal experience in diplomatic relations with a foreign sacrifices coupled with the entire eorgetfulness of the past.
power, had taught him that quarrels and dissensions on reli- And yet, if the Confederacy had not shown energy in stem-
gious matters produced the greatest scandal, and unhinged ming that outbreak at once, he sb ou d like ta know where
the whole fabric of a State.—( Hear.) While, therefore, they would have now been the liberty— where the ref gious tole-
were animated is the discussion of the subject befere the ration that at present that coma try enjoyed? (Cheers.)
House, they ought to have e ego desire to soothe the excite- And had not the consequences of el at wa- proved what dan-
men which the recent attempt to complete the organization gera were to be apprehended front apparently insignificant
of a Roman Catholic hierarchy in England had not unnatu- causes—for they all knew the o rigin of the struggle in
rally stirred up ;to be prepared to deal calmly with the evils Switzerland—how step by stela, if unchecked, they
which it had unhappily engendered, and to direct the atten- gradually attained a magnitude capab e ultimately of
tion, as it was their duty, to the consequences which he, for convulsing an entire nation. Luther said that Rome was
ne, had reason for apprehending, unless corrected, would the seat of hypocrisy and into! ram ce. And certainly the
inevitably ensue. The Noble Lord at the head of the Govern- antecedents of Papal history cm dirmed that opinion, and
ment had been taunted with taking a step backward in proved that there was in her policy a tendency the
bringing this motion before the House. He had been told most dangerous to, and moat teabversivs of, civil and
that he had done that which his antecedents rendered religious liberty.— (Cheers.) Cast your eye (said the
unworthy of himself and of the great Liberal party over Hon. Baronet) over the page of • history. See what epain
which he had hitherto with so much ability presided; but, once was and what she is now. St e what is R .me —what is
from the opinion he had ventured to form of the s oble Naples—what is Florence at the peresent day ! Where with
Lord's character, he apprehended that, in the imperative Roman Catholic intolerance is civil eiberty ?—(Loud cheers.)
discharge of a duty towards his country, he would not be Recollect what Hildebrand, Gre gory VII., said of Spain,
deterred from the free exercise of his judgment even by —" It were better she should be long to the Saracen than
considerations of his political antecedents, or at the risk of not render homage to the Sovei alga Pontiff." Recollect
incurring 'charges similar to those to which he had that another Pope—buon compa goo—Gregory XIII., re-
alluded.— (Hear, hear.) To his mind the Noble Lord was yelling in his unholy orgies, celebrated to Almighty
nos only best consulting the interests of the party which it God public thanksgiving for the massacre of St. Bar-
was alleged he was deserting, but what was of infinitely tholomew, and recollect that her policy still continues in
greater importance, the interests ef the country at large, by the same spirit.—(Great cheering.) Its course unchanged
acting as he bad done.-- (Cheers from the Ministerial still flows through the same channe'is of intolerance. Recol-
benches. ) And, as the enactments of this Bill—although he lect, above all, that this is the en tiny we have to ward off,
regretted that recent Parliamentary difficulties bad induced and whose arrogance and hypo. trisy, whose indifference
the Noble Lord to modify them, would in no way interfere to the consequences likely to e esue, provided her own
with the legitimate exercise and enjoyment of religious selfish ends are attained, or, fi tiling that, succeeds in
liberty, but would merely tend to control abuse, he would throwing the firebrand of religious discord amidst this
give the Noble Lord -in the absence of a more stringent happy, this contended people, with tette hope of deriving some
proposition—his humble but very cordial supp rt.— (Cheers.) ultimate advantage in the conflict o f party now urge her on.
Might he be permitted to add that, although a humble Mem- She is an enemy whom it requires eat oar zeal and attention
ber of the House, it vi as with deep feelings of regret that he to counteract, and, as I believe froi et my heart this recent
found himself unable, atter mature cansideratiou, to arrive at aggression was but the first step of a premeditated and or-
conclusions in unison with the opinions which bad been re- ganized system of attack— (Treme n dons cheering)—under-
cently expressed by one toward, whom— for reasons which taken with a view of enslaving the conscience, shackling the
the House would readily understand— he bore considerable liberties, and shaking the allegiance of the people, I would
political attachment, and to whom he looked up as called entreat the Noble Lord, as he respe, et s and values that course
upon to occupy the place unhappily vacated in the ad- which he has so long and advent igeously to the country
vocacy of those measures with which the country Advocated, to keep a watchful and a vigilant eye over the
was endowed ? (eoud cries of " Hear, hear.") On the interests committed to his keeping as head of the Govern-
mo lel of that Right Hon. Gent'eman's political principles he ment of this great empire, and I ent neat the Housef by timely
(Sir R. Peel) would readily fashion his own feelings; and legislation, to prevent an abuse fr om taking root unheeded,
happy he was to think that upon most s bjects he could do the fruits of which will inevital;ly t usdanger the safety of the
so, though upon the present occasion, consistently with the State.—(The Hon. Baronet resu a sod his seat amid great
feelings ne entertained, he was forced to differ from him.- cheering, and was immediately sur rounded by numbers of
(Hear, hear.) It was precisely because he (Sir R. Peel) Hon. Members to offer him their congratulations.)
was an advocate of civil and religious liberty, which he held Mr. M'CULLAGII said he had listened to the speech
to be inseparably united together, so that you could not de- which the Hon. Baronet had just. delivered, with feelings
face the one without disfiguring the other, that he gave his which he would rather not express. But if he (Mr.
adhesion to legislation upon the so-called Papal aggression. M'Cullagh) could imagine the feelings with which the Ro:
Divested of its political influence, and apart, if possible, from man Catholic Members of that House had listened to that
the question of spiritual jurisdiction which Rome had as- singular address, he would, as a Protestant, venture to say,
sumed by that act, there really appeared to him no very let not the first step in legislation of one who had pleaded for
serious cause of alarm. He saw no great cause of alarm in his own inexperience be conclusi tee in the formation of the
the simple abstract circumstance that the vanity of an indi- judgments of Hon. Members. Let oee House remember there
vidual priest had been satisfied—a priest, be it remembered, was a debt of gratitude still due to one whose name that
who had the meekness to promote his own elevation by the Hon. Baronet bore- ( Hear, hear)--sand for the sake of the
assurance that the political consequences resulting therefrom great deeds of the father, he would .ask the House to forget
were superficial and transitory in their nature.—( Hear, hear.) for a moment what he (Mr. elCullegh) hoped he might
He held that there was no great reason for alarm in the characterise with justice as the inconsiderate expressions
simple circumstance that Dr. Wiseman had been permitted, as of the son.—(oh, oh, and laughter.) For his (Mr. M'Cul-
by the stroke of a harlequin's wand, to shuffle off the lagh's) part he had but one duty to discharge, and that was
sombre vestments of a bishop in partibus, for the gaudy to speak as a Protestant Member of that House on this ques-
trappings of a spiritual prince, and the title of an imaginary tion. lie, as a Protestant, protested against this Bill, be-
see.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) After all, a cardinal's hat cause he was a sincere believer in the truth of the principle
and hose had not always been reserved for even such impor- of Protestantism, and because be believed the principle of the
tent functions, as from the present appointment one might Reformationho be nothing less than theperfect and unabridged
be led to imagine: A Medici wore a cardinal's hat in petti- right of of private judgmeut, and because he believed this
coats, and did not history point a finger of scorn at Julius Bill was an indirect attempt to oppress those who con-
111., who, with no great self-respect, it must be admitted, scientiously differed from him on the great matter of
gave away the cardinal's hat which he had vacated on his eternal salvation. For these reasons, and because he re-
own nomination to the Pontifical chair, to the keeper of a garded the Bill as a departure from the proper province of
menagerie of monkeys which it was his Papal pleasure to legislation, he would give it his perfect and unqualified oppo-
maintain.—(Laughter.) Pio Nono, it really seemed to him, a Bier. It seemed to be taken for granted that the bishops
although but so recently and so forcibly reseated in the of Ireland, in assuming the titles of sees, were offenders
affections of his people by a sudden, and certainly very ex- against an acknowledged law; and the Right Hon. Gentle-
traordinary burst of religious zeal on the part of Republican man (Sir George Grey) in the course of his speech on this
France,—and, by the way, it really seemed as if the Citizen question commented on the fact, that in a recent address to'
President of the Republic were desirous of making some she Throne they had signed their names simply without ape
amends for the Emperor's misconduct, as where the latter pending the names of their sees. The probable explanation
was instrumental in establishing republics,— as. for in- of that war, that those prelates only signed by the names of
stance, the Ligurian, the Cisalpine, and the Partheno- their sees when the documents they so subscribed had re-
paean,—the former had destroyed the only one he could lay ference to diocesan acts. It was a fact within his own know-
his hands upon ; and where the uncle, without much dis- ledge that the Most Rev. John M'Hale, Roman Catholic
play, carried off from Rome a Pope beloved by hie people, Archbishop of Tuam, had had letters of administration
the nephew, with a very great display, and with consider- granted to him from the Prerogative Court of Ireland, by the
able expense, it would appear, since it required 30,000 men, Most Reverend John George, Archbishop of Armagh, who
carried back to Rome a Pope whose presence the Romans had in those letters of administration addressed him as e the
made arrangements to dispens with.—(Laughter an I Most Reverend John APHale. Roman Catholic Archbishop
cheers.) Ho was about to say that Pio Nono really seemed of Tuam."—(Hear, hear.) So that they had the first Pro-
to him to espir• to the character in which Hildebrand and testant prelate in Ireland recognising the titles, the assump-
Gregory VII. were represented in an old picture which he re- tion of which was now called an offence. One of the
membered seeing at Naples, with a croeeer in one hand and first acts which the Archbishop of Tuam did under those
a whip in the other, trampling under food the crowns of so- letters of administration was to make an affidavit before
vereigns, and with the nets and fishes of St. Peter by los Master Litton, one of the Masters in Chancery is Ireland,
side. This r-presentation of the fiery monk of Cluny and who was strongly attached to Protestant principles, but
afforded no incorrect portraiture of the ce erecter which Pio who nevertheless permitted that prelate to sign such affidavit
Nono, with all his virtues and weaknesses seemed desirous as John, Archbishop of Tuam. The Master of the Rolls in
of enacting.—(Hear, hear.) But Papal history teemed Ireland, the Hon. I'. B. Smith, who made an order on that
with vagaries of this nature. Let the crimes, the bigotry, very affidavit, not only granted the application in favour of
and she intolerance of the Papacy be for the more home- the Archbishop of Tuam, and against the persons with whom
diate appreciation of those who, now that tt.e day-spring of he contended, but also awarded costs to him.—( Hear, hear.)
liberty had been eclipsed in the blood of that great man Again, in the course of a sharply contested suit between the
under whose auspices it was just beginning to dawn over late Protestant corporation of Drogheda and their successors,
Central Italy, were by an arbitrary tyranny endeavouring which was referred by the Lord Chancellor to Master Henn,
to counteract further development, forgetful that a day of a Protestant official of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, and
reckoning might not be far distant, .and that, unless they a man distinguished by experience, worth, and learning, that
profited by the lessons afforded to them, the temporal power gentleman, in refuting the mode in which the trust in ques-
of the Pope, in the balance of justice, might be found want- thin in the suit was constituted, wrote at the head of the list
ing.— (Hear, hear.) But let us bs caretul,— of trustees, "the Most Rev. Dr. Crolly, (the then) Primate
" Lest from the bounded level of our mind, of all Ireland ;" and' after the death of Dr. Crolly, Sir E.
Short views we take, nor see the lengths behind ;" Sagden nominated t: the Rev. Paul Cullen, D.D., Roman
but as to regulate our appreciation of the recent invasion of Catholic Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of all Ire-
the prerogative of the Crown of England, as not to limit land," to act in his stead in the trust.—(Hear, hear.) And
ourselves to the immediate effec s, but. to the , ossequences was he to be told that these men were now to be punished
likely to ensue. This was net the firs , time at which this for assuming titles which the most eminent men had
country, with reference to the usurpation of authority conferred upon them ?—(ll,ar, hear.) Although it might
to appoint archbishops in this realm, had had just cause to be contended that they could not make void by statute the
complain of Rome. So far back as the reign of King John spiiitual acts of the Roman Catholic bishops, still they had
he found Innocent 111. nominating an archbishop attempted by this statute, as originally frame ', to make a
to the see of Cantesbery, whose authority and criminal offence a signature to any deed or writing, or any
jurisdiction John refused to recognise. The Pope other act of a Catholic bishop signed in his capacity of a di-
consequently placed this country under an inter ict and , cesan bishop. But what was the fact? The omission of
prohibited the King's subjects from rendering the homage the 3d and 4th clauses left the. Bill as obnoxious as it was
which was justly due to their sovereign, and very generously before. - (Cries of "Oh !") He held in his hand an opinion
gave this country to the King of France, whom, only a few given to him within the last three hours, the opinion of three
years before, he had also excommunicated.—( dear, hear.) eminent lawyers, which left no doubt upon that point. It
id not eo X. in his infallibility, give to Henry VIII. the struck him, looking at the preamble of the Bill, whether the
title of e 'eefender of the Faith," in consequence of a work three omitted clauses were not contained in the first proposi-
which he wrote on the Seven Sacraments against Luther; tion. It was a very serious matter, which the Right on.
yet, in a very few years after this same title was abolished, Gentleman the Secre'ary of State shouldSlook to, whether
the Fatnese Pope (Paul III.) promulgated the bull her Majesty's subjects should be set in a net of doubtful int-r-
-in Ciena Domini, with a view of asserting the pretation, where crimes were charged, and the chief pastors of
Pope's authority, and, at the same time, of excommuni- their faith were to be made amenable. If they were to legis-
eating Henry in England. These ecclesiastical thunder- late, they ought to do so openly. In a case submitted to Mr.
bolts, in the hands of the madmen who in the Bethel], of the Chancery bar, Mr. Bramwell, and Mr. Saville,
early and middle ages usurped to themselves this authority, of the common, those gentlemen had given the following
before the light of science and literature had dispelled the opinions upon these three questions-1,
If any name, or
dark clouds of superstii ion, had a very powerful influence style, or title, designated under the second clause of the Bill,
over men of ignorant minds. Then, again, in the recent were attached to any deed or writing, whether that deed or
case of Piedmont, in consequence of the Sicardi laws which writing would not be void, notwithstanding its omission?
had abolished certain ecclesiastical privileges, we had The answer was in these remarkable words :—" We are of
witnessed another display of the power of the Roman Ca• opinion that any deed or writing such as is there designated
tholic Church at the oeath-bed of one who had been instru- would be void in law.—(Hear, hear.) The second question
mental in their adoption, but which display had nearly he put was this—Whether, if the third clause be omitted, any
proved fatal to the bigotted prelate under whose auspices it endowment or gift toanyßomanCatholio bishop etarchbishop
had been planned.—(Hear, hear.) Thank God we had no in the manner designated in the clause, would be void? The
serious ground for apprehension on this score in answer he received was this :—" By the first clause, any gift
the present day. The people of this country, or endowment for the benefit or support of a Roman Catholic
happy in the enjoyment of civil and religious bishop would be void ;" and they went on tas state the rea-
liberty —proud of the person of their beloved Eovereign, sons for:that opinion at length, but he would not trouble the
who had endeared herself to their affections by even firmer House at that .late hour of the night by going into them in
ties than those which might naturally have at- dotal Any gentleman who felt curious to see them might
tached her to them—would laugh to scorn the important have a copy. The gist of the matter was this—that the
attempt of that miserable political impostor to estrange second and third clauses were conclusions, and, legally speak-
them from their duty. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Se- ing, consequences, derived from the first. So, although the
cretary of State for the Home Department, in the debate second and third clauses were left out of the Bill, they were
on the introduction of the Bill, said that if the mea- as completely dealing with the question of Catholic en-
sure were adopted he knew no reason for entertaining dowments, and were going as much beyond what the Right
any apprehension of the loyalty of her Majesty's Roman Hon. Gentleman stated it was the intention of the Govern-
Catholic subjects; but he (Sir R. Peel) apprehended that ment to do, as if the clauses remained in the Bill. No
there were many in that House who would be inclined to wonder, then, that the Honourable Baronet the Member for
question, however painful it might be to do so, the accuracy Oxford found that concession had not conciliated opposition
of that statement, and he disposed to attribute it either to a in Ireland. No wonder that the Bill was daily looked upon
too confiding spirit, which the loyalty of the Right Hon. with increasing aversion and opposition, and he trusted that
Gentleman had given expression to, than to any substantive opposition and aversion would continue until they triumphed
proofs he had adduced in support of it. He regretted, how- in the defeat of such an obnoxious measure.—(Hear, hear.)
ever, that the Noble Lord, in attempting to legislate for Eng- Mr. MOORE moved the adjournment of the House. _ d
a _
land, should have extended the enactments of the Bill to Ire- Mr. WOOD said that the Hon. Member for Plymouth ht e
land, the ecclesiastical condition of which, from the fact that fallen into several fallacies, one of which
removed,
three-fourths of the inhabitants were Roman Catholics, rest fell to the. round.g The Hon. Blembeeishaerely.D He
(Mr.
rendered it by no means synonymous with England, giving his definition of civil and religioeusn I her y
either side of the
Indeed, he could have wished, that while establishing even Wood) .would yield to no n rn!in
ee •tie• les of civil and religious
severer restrictions against Papal aggression in England House in zeal to defend the pr p
innistent with the safety of the
they had left Ireland, at all events for the moment, altoge- liberty to the utmost yerge
the Pope to take the position he had
ther untouched.—(Loud cries of " Rear, hear.") He appre- state ; but, once permitat
gaglan _
a. let it be permitte 1 that
handed it to be quite possible to make a distinction in aegis- attempted to assume
ngl might refer to the P p
lating upon these matters between England and Ireland. subjects of the ;C
actionsmuofjurisdiction, and we should)-
They could not conceal from themselves the fact that the the resolution of
backq to that period of darkness and i at
Bill before the House, although shorn of its fair proper- oece be thrown utoler-
d religiuus liberty had n
once when eiv an ven been
dons, would produce, if it had not already excited, serious an
(Hear, hear.) He considered that
hostility and opposition in that part of her Majesty's domi- be—add of.—hich had been uttered on a forme the few
nions. Experience had taught them how tenacious the Irssh
awligshwe Honourable Baronet opposite had r occasion by
Roman Catholics were of their religion—and he found
to throw back ,the cause of civil and religiousatendency,
no fault with them on that score ; and experienceshae in Europe, more hen anything which had liberty
also taught them how futile were all attempts to interfere,
in the last 300 years.--(" No, no," and 1 taken place
even in an indirect manner, with what they considered to be effect, for example, would those words loud cheers.) What
the free exercise of a religion which united a great ma)or: y
he Legislature of England, have upon the
if
adopted by the
of them in one common bond of profession of faith. Let new engaged in a desperate situ people of Santini*.
House then cease to direct their energies in this particularued by such as that which England herselfru e f r religious liberty,
channel ; or, if they must legislate, let them not
bbuetestui
which, as it net be forgotten that one of the had gone through? Let
what, perhaps, might be applicable to England, The been allowed to expire without Ministers of Sardinia had
regarded Ireland, was altogether idle and unprofitable. in this gion, solely on the groundthat the consolations of his reli.
recently exhibited he had been the author of
display of Protestant feeling .t
against successful
three measures which
country certainly afforded some secuernidy,
although it had Church, because they veer
were distasteful to the heads of that
aggression on the part of Rome;
u an anti-Catholic civil freedom. Let 01 eso many steps in the marFli of
been said that an attempt to get p_ e assumptions of the Pope be sanctioned
of England had failed, his , by the English Parliament,would think
demonstration in the north
artifice the Roman Ca- I their cause desperate and the Sardinians
indeed.—(Hear.) His (Mr. Wood's)
belief was, that whatever
excite a fictitious sympathy in i definition of
tholic might employ
to the Protestant people ' had to • religious liberty was the right which every man
their behalf on the present
need occasion,the exertions of worship his Creator in the mode
any indivi- best; to select for his • which he deemed
those whom he
of England did
not
their unanimous disapprovalof wished
dual to give vent to to select, and to exercise his religion freely, with this
t which Rouse had recently adopted. en an ad- safeguard—Sic' utere too ut non alien ladas—(Hear, hear;)
the conduct
dress, signed by 40,000 Roman Catholics, recently presented —while civil liberty as compared with religious liberty was
Catholic] he found
to her Majesty by three Roman the this, that no man should be deprived of any civil privilege
expression that they were ready "to give to Caesar the things Whatever on account of any religious opinions whatever.
that were Caesar's, and to God the things that were God's ;" ; But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had kept back the real
but, remembering that this expression was susceptible of a difficulty, which, indeed, solely influenced his (Mr. p.
Jesuitical interpretation, he did not consider it by any means Wood's) vote. Tice Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted
satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.) But what had experience taught that the Roman Catholic acknowledged a foreign
.au
bins personally in diplomatic relations to foreign powers iu a but he said, "if that is your objection you shout? have lme
very crita el juncture of affairs weh respect to ecclesiastical thought of it when
,you admitted the Romett Catholics
differences? A passive observer e.e!er tie ;testi fnnstesel.t. in Parliament.' lint he did net theme,
is tin to a
e pee wierily
Noble Lord at the head ci forego ' of
' ' Church of Rome that it mixed up temporal %llatever ()Seers of see and •--
spin
might suppose te the contrary, and directed not to interfere, tual matters, so that you could scarcely sever one from the
.
he had witnessed inactively, but not without emotion, the other.—(clear, allowed
ear, hear.) And if that Church were to
mighty struggle of liberly against despot sin and intolerance introduce the canon law into this count Wis-
,
as Cardinal se-
.