The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-17 00:00:00

Ibr relief from the tithes. They did not pray that one-third
should be paid by the landlord, but that two-thirds of the
whole should be free from the imposition, and such ought to be
the case in a country in which there were thirty Catholic pa-
rishes in one county alone, and not a single Protestant. Both
proprietors and tenants wereCatholics,they did not hope thatthe
Protestant Church would be cut down to the wants of the Pro-
testant
community in Ireland. The Hon. Member had said
there was a desire among the Catholics for the ascendancy of
he th
eir churcje
_(Hear, hear.) He would tell him, and
Gentletaan trusted he was as sincere a Catholic as the Honourable
nt was a Protestant, that he would no more con-
set)the Catholic Church having the ascendancy than
he woula
it penal to
- consent to the , passing of a law to make
be a Catholic. For he was convinced that nothing
evaded
and debased a church so much as allowing it a
~,,PfllPcai ascendancy. "My kingdom is not of this world,"
.7" the Saviour, and detached from the kingdom of God,
uv that
Church became defiled and degraded with mo.
Ones
ought to spring from a higher and a divine
c_ethSin•—(Hear, hear.) Such an idea was appalling to the
of the terms
thllHe regretted that the Hon. Member should be so
" Catholic" and " Protestant," using them as
diti
%Posed to each other ; it was time to leave off childish absur-
,, ; one would think they had gone back to the time of the
""nrlnatinn when it was fashionable to cut throats on both sides;
• When the Catholics persecuted the Protestants, and the Protest-
.ti2ts the Catholics just as they happened to be in power. The Hon.
t...._.flterober himself represented a part of Ireland where the Pro-
hi Persecuted each other with an alacrity and virulence
•""• were never exemplified between Catholics and Protestants.
gt to the
repeal of the union, he denied that its object was to
4,v` anY body of Christians the ascendancy over another, or
eiat it could by possibility happen, that if a separate legisla-
lature were established in Ireland, it would be exclusively
Catholic. Did the not Honourable Member know that there
were
,"at present 105 Irish Peers, of whom seven werec
crew
°", and that the number of the latter could not be in.
h.4-4' Without the executive of England. The Hon. Member
ad said much about unity, but did: he not know that one of the
legislative free anvourishing countries existing had 22 separate
'egislative assemblies ? Dld he not know that Sweden
antiraNfltwaY had their separate legislatures, and that they
\te-
Perfectly independent of each, and yet so united in
stthrena„,
a a". as to be better able to resist Russian tyranny
rae-pa ailY other country ? The examples were nu-
a4,-•flug- Ireland once posliessed a separate Legislature
the
no country in the world rose so rapidly as she did from
Years 1782 to 1796, and until French principles got in
Whichl/lint and drove them to the melancholy rebellion
,""ich followed. Ireland prospered under a separate
'Zislature, and could prosper under no other,—(Hear, hear.)
.a.‘"° the question of monarchy, the King of England de facto
se King of England de jure, and the establishment' of a
Crate legislature could never alter that law.—(Hear, hear.)
tin!lahci would gain much by Ireland's prosperity. What is
a-:tate of the country now compared with what it was at the
th:-flg eithe union 9 Why, absenteeism, the great curse of
piiire:ntry, had inc ;eased. It has reduced Ireland to a mere,
Pelting form. The repeal of the union was not se-
it was on the contrary, the most efficacious measure
(ciri tee security and advantages of the two countries.—
(Iferar,,' hear.) Does this House imagine that it was he
u'Connell) who was pressing the repeal of the union ?
onithe Coer • Bill had done more than he (Mr. O'Connell)
,
leaka u°i and his Majesty's speech, as well, contributed. to
st n' ',Dealers. He (Mr. O'Connell) could give many m-
eta% cee' of rich and respectable persons in Ireland who were
ford 'ePealers by the Coercion Bill ; one—Mr. Thomas Cran-
limn:inn declared that he was no repealer till then. The
Would Would see that the Protestant provinces of Ireland
AnuaziPflur in their petitions for repeal: in the city of
a Petition, about three weeks ago, was signed by
it;) Protestants aswell as Catholics. The real repealers were
la; Ministers and the Government of this country that out-
,„a ed Ireland. Then the speech put into the King's
. ;IXII re-echoed all that went before : forsooth, " the just in-
-111
estation" felt at a people's meeting peaceably to discuss public
jog :°ns• The Lord Lieutenant had the power of prevent-
obje„"ofmeeting' by his single fiat, no matter what was the
the
assembly; and this was the protecting bill of
England f t
r Ireland. He
(Mr. O'Connell) was perfectly
tahsonhed at bearing
any educated Protestant make use of
e is
ti_cant of Protestant and Catholic. Such was only fit for
'44l.Y_ one to
mes
gone by in Conflict about political privileges. He defied
give him a single instance of a popular Catholic
.ernbly monarchs d refidusing
so, but he threws o religious liberty to any Protestants ; Catholic
ut the fact
Of a Catholic people refusing
religious liberty.challenge to prove the
o.
An
ilt. Hole. MEMBER—It was done in South America.
.O'CONNELL—The Hon. Member can give no instance.
1•71 _``:lily they were not as liberal there as they should be, but
allenged the Hon. Member to mention one instance of a
caul t being persecuted. In fact, the population were all
Wit,...°lke, and they had not the opportunity of doing so.
~cciltutry was it, that the first after the reformation pro-
it e 74 religious liberty? Maryland—a Catholic State. Would
Moe recollected, that after the restoration Roman Ca-
b, it: gave religious toleration, though it was withdrawn
tnasfeeh2nterval, and the draught of the enactment was
was a Jesuit ? He could also quote Poland, but it
In hirte unnecessary ; no man who was at all sincere
thiele:Wwn feelings could persecute another for his. The Ca-
-1Z;
.osere never distinguished as a proselyting sect. None
ut 8 so. Whereas every Protestant in Ireland was as
Irelad.Possible in the trade of making converts. It was
cattle_ greatest misfortune, that this cry of Protestant and
erebee'nowroas so long kept up. But Protestants and Catholics
cwrietv6nng
thaltntouannaimniimtyooefss.
eTnhtiemGeonvernment of this country was
by
of sentiment It was vain to think that
cashieredby stron fLe.li.,n_g the question of repeal could be
:ialreitasar:dtig thatgthanoTanyofdenunciations. The people
England was the Prosperitypov.,ancement the country was dependant
poor laws were Poverty
-in°f
yThe greatest evil that could befal
Ireland.—(Hear.) The English
He (Mr. O'Connell) treated Etigland heavily by Irish poverty.
with ineffable disregard ; theh.s
religious ascendanc cant of religious differences
'the
political independence—(Hear,
struggle of repeal was not for
Convincedlue,heer hear)—and it
in some other anode
enoet cease until
obtrusion
ysiowoeroef
o..le..rpehraseolo
gy--cant which wouldxcbepetlelg
ttohoeldo
women,tn or
It in the nursery, and should be laughed at, as well as
v4i_ obsolete nonsense that was only fit for children who were
di7ened in brass. Mr. O'Connell concluded by deprecating the
uuesion of the repeal question on religious feelings.
te". SHEIL said he could not help expressing his surprise
-en Petitions were to be presented, from which there might
anticipated discussions of great importance, not a single
11.1,-,vr of the Government, or any individual connected
the government should have thought it incumbent
bud
Llihri to attend.—(Hear, hear.) It was originally
praa7ratood that some member of the Government should be
pint at the early sittings of the House. Why, then, was
attend Secretary for Ireland present? Or, if he could not
.why did he not apply to the Hon. Member fbr the
Ateolvjarity of Dublin, to answer the speech of the Hon.
Of tis_"e_ofvor Dublin ? But there was neither a Member
et ernment, nor any one tattha sympathized with them,
4,„n: the high Church party in tendance to answer his
iiiand Learned Friend' Wth egard to the
s arguments. r
w.ng sPeech which
had ."5 eoUchedn been alluded to, he admitted that it
those em lo very strong terms, in terms almost as strong as
tegislatiep yed by Lord
Grey, then Mr. Grey,in speaking of the
b4d e Union with Ir
measure purchas eland. Mr. Grey described that as a
tllle Irish People ed by gold, and wrung from the fears of
Ireland would d Y treachery, that the time would come when
Me MAX„.entand its repeal and would obtain it.
bUbl' •"ELL •
'fl Would for said he hoped that the Hon. Member for
dee
Arable, an give him for stating that it would be more
'inceflaa, if the din
his opinion it would be attended with
°r toe e Ron. Member would bring forward measures
relief Of
F. liarnen.lreland and try whether the Imperial
of the ••• would afford redress before it sought for a repeal
hensionunion. He
viewed
that measure with fear and appre-
abseotea. A Particular measure to which he referred was
`mrn, in the
heater ti
condemnation of which he concurred most
istress ----, More than any religious differences, caused h and deg, t.
- great tal c in Ireland. He would be happy to find
toiletry
Op ent and intimate knowledge, and devotion to his
farward t the Hon. Member for Dublin engaged in bringing
laPeet h,'s question.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He might
sive th his resisted by a powerful body, but he should
the e eformed
question Parliament an opportunity to consider
s,eland and to devise some mode to diminish the evils of
,75critees
(i"e Members of Scotland were compelled to become
iruicht that ring the whole period of the session, and he
Matters those periods of abr... would be shortened
ifv6ught anceting Scotland and Ireland were to be
th regard'''. rds at a particular period of the session.
t-heted that the absence of the Ministers, it must be recol-
h_ese petal did not consider the question upon which
"' brew, us were presented, was in the most proper state to
Colonel
under discussion, ree„; el sE
Pra.; ants, ,_f-q-; Presented a petition from the unrepresented
'4'ne n'?rs, and others, of the borough of Dartmouth,
gilt be th`'nrPorate Reform and that no part of the measure
I. kr• Ps 'flaking the office of Magistrate durable for life.
- -.11.31,
inea -try wow supported the petition, and trusted that the
4, aure d lose no time in bringing forward the promised
that
the s ,
!ook ,art Of th uulect. He could assure the House that in
lilt for t„i4,"e country which he came from no measure was
,0,411 r. such anxiety.
was 'Prayina,i'j resented a petition from the vestry of Clerken..
sent' fined j;,;° the repeal of the assessed taxes. Though it
th niente by the Chairman,he knew that it spoke the
Or
som,.aree pa'. eneteen-twentieths of the inhabitants of
wh risb* • • •ed by the pri..
ie fay° oa, _ Also a petition, sign
to th,
ihr Of the 'lluinlinned for debt in Whitecross-street prison,
the brio4: nf arrest about to be introduced for putting an end
.
her the grog le of • He hoped that nothing would interfere with
11, n gay that Bill on the day promised. The Hon. Mem.Uss Mitt e "ice that try_
find eel at on Monday he would move that the
ta4
ad also into consideration the taxation of the coun-
Puisne sat stneerePorts of several Committees of Finance,
:,dges be r,1,819 ; and also, bat the salaries of the
in the ' crzstm "Aced from 5,000/.t to 3,5001.
and ahoflnunty ?v1•! Presented two petitions from parishes
Mr. :fle for the Iflklow, praying for a repeal of the Union,
tees at To W• WO Commutation of tithes.
,
ances undeMete pa`"-) presented a petition from the Dissen-
Mr. siNr,
betirea_ Which trhki Praying for the removal of the griev-
eY. in common with other Dissenters, la
O,C LAIR
u
eerneterY in ONIetL,•-• PPorted the petition,
The s key lb • Pres u ented a petition for Bill to erect a
Peaeft
e chair at 20 minutes before three o'clock.