The Sun.
London, England, 1805-03-09 00:00:00

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BO& SE OF PEERS.
FRIDAY, MARCH 8.
THE. Posy:Office Duty Bill, And the Loin Bill;
were read a third time anti passed.
Several Bills were brought up from the Corn. ,
mons; among others, the Pleastire Horse Duty Bill, •
and read a first • time.
Lord SUFFOLK rose to put a question to the
Noble Secretary of State (Lora CAMDEN), reSpea.
ing the Amount of the Supple voted this. year for
the Military Force of the Empire ; he wished to.
put the question, that he might avoid dOing it tint.
ing the course of the Debate. The information he
felt anxious to obtain.had for its object to ascertain
whether the Military Force already raised, or ex.
petted to be.raised within the year, was itkely to
amount to such a number of men as to require the
immense sutra he believed of about e0,000,c1001.
which had been voted for Military. purposes. ilbe •
could not conceive that there would be any ohjee.
then to makeeltim a satislettory answer, though 'the •
Noble Secrelii4 appeared as if SOlDewLit dit4ilCrlited
to favour hien with it.,
Lord CAMDEN was far from feeling any stubdisinclination ;. but the Noble Lord could oat ex,
pelt, that from.the eagerness to givehim ati answer,
he should have risen while the Noble Lord was still
On his legs, The answer appeared to hina to be
very easy anti obvious. 'Tie sum vntetrfor the
service of the Army was calculated on the estimat.
ed amount of what the Military Force of the Coon.
try. was likely to be brought. to ; if it tell short of
that amount, undoUbtedly Ito more Money would be
issued than what was required to meet the expence of
the number of men that might be raised. if that
nunelter was below site calculation, so would be the
sum destined fdr that service.
Lerd Strvtout said a few words in exolanation,
and professed himself satisfied with the answer.
DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY.
The Order of the Day being then teed to sum.
sinon their Lordships to attend to discuss the Motion
of which notice had been given,
Lord KING .rose pursuant to that notice. Fle-
did not, he said, itnagine himself to be called upon
,to make any apology for bringing- forward a 1\;10..
Lion oldie nature of shit' of which he had given
notice. The subjttt of the Motion-was, in itself,
of such importance, that no apology could. be to.
quired for pressing it on the attention Of the House.
It was one which Parliament had repeatedly oleclet...
ed, in the two last Sessions, to challepge the Ittilest
exercise of their judgment and their wisdom; and
both had been 'diligently employed in producing
measures that might; effetitially provide for the.,
tlefeoge . and security of the country. Neither did
he feel himself under the necessity of apologizing,
for being the person to bring forward the Mettioo
with which he should conclude, because all their
Lordships had indiscriminately been celled upon to
suggest, or propose, what in their opinion
.might
best conduce to the attainment tifolitit very import.
'ant objeci. In order to establish the proptitty of
acceding to what he intended to propooe, lie should
only: have briefly to advert to the inefficacy of. the,
measures thai had ',hitherto been atiopteci. It was
unnecessary for him to go into any 'Minute exemi.
nation of the Bills • that had been passed for two
Sessions, with a view to• the effettual 'defence of
the- Country. That 'suljett. had been fkaiy. tbs.
cussed, and the result of that discussion convinced
him, AL least, that ell these bills were very complex,
CootrediCtory, and inefficient. What was toot.
mostly called the Additional Force Bill, snore pare
ticularly appeared to him, to wear that charatter.
"1. net Bill was moreover, unequal in iis operation
with respect to the different parts of the Country ;
it took into no consideration their comparative po.
potation, or their facility of ititnishing the number
of inert required. None ofoliese Bills attempted4c-
Ctirately to distinguish between thedifferent descrip.
lion 'of Force to be raised, or none of them suCeetol.
ed in prd.tically marking that diatiottion.--The
Regulars were-in all of them -Mere or. less eoo.
founded with die Militia and the Volttteers.--,-
The Nobble Lotd then ent.eted into a COtty;t.
vieyir of the number an,l quality of the
Military Force rated forathe year)
He more partitoileriy direacet the- oteet.ritin of the
House to the amount ill both rears of the Brifibil
Infantry. ithe IVl`ditary Ferec auto, the . whole,
and under all its dentrtioatioo., far the l'reing
Waft,. perhaps, much greater than the entouto of
last year. The ineteas.e upon the whole 1:4 the
present .year. he understood .to be 12,26 z, But this,
properly. speakiog, was not an increase iii the Bri. '
tish Infantry ; ..on the contrary, it eould be proved,
lse
that
ctfiatbhhrnr:aedmait tese(eydo'i tf:oadt flo. increase
plhat ar.
fairlyr:o:iufnc ntuatl she2l) ):hies'oF aggregate
o)rstcahmiel wr:echPienOt AVB;
CC:11:3'iltlin;114:111; r%Nr' eehtleaote'ljr"trtCliki:ttilh:i
more than. 53,000; For he would not cad
that a Dieposable.Foree which could not_be spared
from eithet Ireland or Great Britain, or ,stitch no
man would advise to be sent away from the two
Countries. In effofivally:providino too a Force of
that description, touch attention abothd' be paid to
the different nature of limited and 'unlimited set.
vice'; that idea had been much dwelt upoo of late ;
-alteration from unlimited to limited service had
been strongly recommended, and it would be wise,
.and perhaps found itecessary, after all, to adopt it.--.
Human nature •ti,vtilted as the idea of being ihtib tied
up for and besides else natural ~cc to submit
to such-an am,aosition ofrsery ice, it tended even' to ele.
feat the.objeet for which it was entotcte'. Notloag
so much contributed to deaertion, or ohatrigted the

i

.I'l4' tt. 101,K rfin rOWCO ‘,.(nititlvni. 11, (tic
At s which. thty raise4l and kept entire, anti we
must 'soon be convinced of the benefit that would
arerae fr,la itni itiilg their example in that parte.
c •lar„ 1 here were other •prospects and conditioni
which powerfully counteracted our means of raising
a large Dispf,sable Force ; among dio e. he would more
p, ienTarly ins, a nee't he aversion- of Beittah- Subjedir-
t 141,,ervl in the-West Inalies. There shotddat least be
a roraii.m of that service ; 44,, if that could not
he exactly eir-tted; he should .apprtive' and recOrn.-
melt& the increase ill Bikk keg ;nen I'l lint there
--sval.:ne)w- a great defed in the.mode of raising and
(a linraininv those, corns. There wain° inducement
frr the lOffi;rers who raised, to rentaiti in them.
'Die), looked to that fierily as the means of ob.
raining rat.k.l,Thit .such Corps should, in his rrpi.
be 011icereo only by per:inll3 who 1104401,mi io
the West littilt 3. WithOilt nil rig, sqrncstrong in.
dyciments to, Oliicerato continue in these Corps, it
were vain to expect that they could ever be brought
many thing like perfedion of discipline. The wily
ohjedion that could be urged against this plan was,
the inere2ge nt expercre it might
,involve ; but that
increase we uld he nothing in comparison with the
advantages it must produce. Indeed the anxiety
ss4tieli was felt hith.by Parliament anti the Nation
as large, respeding this and all the different
branches, of our national defence, may fairly be ad.

vaneed among, the chief reasons which oecusinned
last SessiOn• a change, in the GovernMent of the
Country,: yet What has that change drafted chat can
remove ikhat anxiety and those ? It
must 'be c.nofessetl that none of our pl.ins for recruit.
in? the Army have proved so successful as was eX•
paled, not ',even equal to the filling up the casual de.
cree.e. The House must he aensible, 'of the total
i 'Aquae). of our present Military System : he, at
le4r, for 00e, was thoroughly convinced of it ; and
from that conviction it was that he ;felt induced to
bring forward his , present Motion, the object of
tvllich, was, that a Committee be appoint:d to re.
vice all the .tills that were passed to this circa last
Session, anti to consider of such Means as might
sender our Military Establishtnent more perfect und
complete.
Lord GAIVIORN could not •suffif:iently commend
the cantkur and fairness with which the Noble' Lord
liad.atgued in support of his Minion, and the
• pa,ttial n‘ant,i7i ir, which he had abstained froin all
r 4,3, piej r, ice , .ind 4,171 all political allusions;--
• With regard to the question, he thought but 'very
}lick womreessary to be said upon it. When an ilia_
partial view was taken of the. Military Force,•dur.
ing the two years referred to by the Noble Lord,
it .vot.ild be vvident that great advanceS were. made
tOwards perfeEtinginn Military System during the
last Year. This would Asti tvsly 'appear on the face
of the Papers laid' Wire their Lordships:, prepara.
tory to the present discussion and it only regior.
ed toinspe4t them to he convinced how' unnecessary
it was to adopt the Motion proposed by the Noble.
Lork‘'Tbe Noble Secretary then enumerated the
different heads of the AccOunts on the Table, and
inferred from them that the Army was now more
fiUmertens and rffedive than it was at the beginning .
'of-la,t year, and that it fairly prOmised progres.
siVetY it, improve, With regard to the idea thrown
not by the
.I\l!:hie Lord rcepthing the West India
Regitnents, he, 4)erf etly. coincided with him ; and
as tar as such an improvement could be followed up,
it,sheulti have his support. In every other revved'
he saw no necessity of appointing a QWl.llllSEteer
such as that moved .for 'by the , Noble Lord. He,
there fort., thought himself justified in tipposing the
! •

Lerd STANHOPE said, that the nature of the
Motion, now brought tor Ward by his Noble Friend
Lai induced, him to attend the discussion of ;his
night, He was glad that he had worded his Mu.
titan in general terml, .Intl th it it referred to the
,A,43/44 of last !icsaitto, which he should ever hold as
oppressive raiselii,'vow;, and absurd. Indeed, the
Atis he alluied to, and the Whole of our Military
Syst,m,,led to ca,o,,eciuences the most extensively
,alarming. Alditional Defence &di was amOng,
'the roust .unjust and Intolerable ,;f them., 7r intitaed
Jies and .peualties on persons wholly oublameabki
and how were. the 'F.Amers to be indemnified, hut
by. raising the price of all sorts o provisions
Thls was a prominent part the famitte.rnongering
systrin which it was endeavouted to Vitabhihe He
should vote for the Committee, for there he s,hould
be able to meet the latal,consequenees of this starv-
ing system, which, must inevitably tend to raise
the. price of labour, to avert ,the progress of agri.
culture, 'to ruin our manufaaures,, to destroy our
commerce, and; by the combination .of all'these per-
nicious tfl7ets, dismantle our Navy, and leave_ us
bare to the attacks attic EAetny. And by whom-
were, all these calamities to be brought upon the
Country ? By a man, who boasted that if. he
were in power he would r4stify all the errors of
Ministers, and give fult effcCt to the sridr, zeal,
nnd tstilictity ardour of the Country. Under the.
specious pomp of these, promises he removed a
Gentleman lately made a Metoher of this -House,
whose moderation Wttoi above hit praise, and who
posscsed more good sense in his little finger than
the mighty boaster, the present CHANG t of
the' Ex co uguta, possessed in his whole frame.

tis ,hoAsts ended like ail Others. The mountain
liihourft4 but brought forth -,ynnuse. Pind what
%you'd be the enmerrience of 1114 mighty 111CaitIct ?
'!'ht itie Which be h,id already and he

roight totid to slo..rn the absurdity of his whole sys.
rem ; it began by arming the. People, and then it
tended to starve them. The Noble Lord indulged
in a violent inveCtive nainst the whole conduct of
Minkters, and conclndc4 with giving his hearty
burnort to tl,e Motion.
RUMNAY SAid, that he did net intend to
trouble their Lordship's that night ; but expressions

hod 'Gillen from the Nubte Lora who twit 'jOs't sat

down which amie his hair stand an end, 5",41 which

it IN:ts impo4l.ll)l* lie conld listen to with patience,
The Nobie Lord tsik.ed of starving ,the priple—hz

e;',,lr;aVoltreti to irtYptlttt lo Ministers, what might
the Country from the visitations of Pro.
vic:coet., Coo the wisdom or foresight: of Mi—
nisters eourterad the etleas of the setoons, and•
r.,ppo,e the will of Heaven ? ‘Vere, ever lich
irevasatioos insinuated alisinot any set of moil As
to the mcabure under discussion, it nrght be fete"

11FItitCf tact
it Cie,erVe CilarKt"

given it by its opposers. .If it was to he amended'.
,repealed, he should with the proposal to that'eli
to come (rim the Right Hon. Gentle,rnan who oi.-
ginaily brought it. t>rward. had, Much•coni.
Bence in his abilities, and would trust ;0 them. flr
the improvement of our Military System; trn.tr
41tat i gyp:mid he- slam ld oppOittri-present-M-roisrr.
Lord CARLISLE' rose to, give ili4 drFl4( j
probation to the Motion of his- Ntible Friend :for
instituting a Committee on the State of the Nail-
tary Defence or the Cou,ntry. He called on nose
Noble Lords 1013 last year were loud in dernarding
an Inquiry to support it on the present occasios or
Uthervvise to Assign sufficient reasons for theirippa.
rent inconsistency. It :was iryitVent that the intastire
which was intended' imbecility of the
Jointer Administraticin, had, by its complete failureg
proved, that however imbecile that Administnition
,night have been, it was succeeded by .one still more
fi,). The Army of itnSerVe A 5, which originated
the Adkpii,istration of the Noble Lord oiposite
to hint, had produced several :thousand men; the
produce of the scheme of the present CH-Atic ELLOR
Of the ExciteQuEtt had been 'considerably smaller
indeed; and.he should not be surprised if some still
rnbre 'sublime 'genius should ,ariserrand
.propose a'
plan, the result of which should be abiolutely no.
thii)g.. The praise demanded by Ministers seemed
to be in. an Livetse propOrrion to their success. It.
reminded bins of the line in one of lltydea'4 Trage_
dies-, where a lover exeltlmed,--.