The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-22 00:00:00

might be repeated this evening when the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government was present.
It would be in the recollection of the House that before
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Greenwich with-
drew he occupied a seat where his Honourable
Friend the Member for Southwark (Sir W. Moles-
worth) now sat [the front row below the gang-
way on the Ministerial side of the House], and that
you repeated your desire that the Hon. Gentleman should
withdraw below the bar of the House. It will also be in
the recollection of the House that after the Hon. Gentle-
man had so withdrawn I stated to the House that it was
the anxious desire of the Hon. Gentleman to take such
steps as might be necessary for carrying out not
only the wishes of his constituents, but also to take such
steps as might enable him to take his seat i❑ this as-
sembly, and that the Hon. Gentleman did not desire to
take any course which might be displeasing
or inconvenient to the House, but that he
was resolved, so far as lay in his power,
to take his seat as a Member of the Legislature. I then
asked my Right Hon. Friend whether, as the Hon.
Gentleman had certainly taken a seat within the
bar of the House—whether, under such circum-
stances, if the Government may determine or
may think he became amenable to the law, they
intend to instruct the Attorney-General to prosecute, in
order that this question may be fairly brought to an
issue; and I intimated that if he did not think he had
become amenable to the law, or that a prosecution
would fairly lay, that the Honourable Gentleman
would take the still further step of ♦oting as a
Member of the House, and thereby render himself per-
fectly amenable to any penalties which the statute
directed. The question, therefore, which I put to the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government is, whether
he intends, or is prepared to authorise the prosecu
tion, at the instance of the Attorney General, against
the Hon. Member for Greenwich?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I think the Hon. Baronet
is hardly justified is asking me what the Government in-
tend, or what they do not intend to do upon the question
of prosecuting a Member of this H use for taking his
seat without taking the oaths. lam ready to say, however,
reserving to the Government the liberty of future action,
that at present we are not disposed to think that we
ought to prosecute Mr. Alderman Salomons for so doing.
Sir B. LI A LL.—I wish now to state the course which
I think the Hun. Member for Greenwich ought to pur-
sue. We are all agreed I think, that so far as the Ron.
Gentleman has at present acted, he has ac ed
with perfect fairness towards her Majesty's Go•
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) He has not condescended
to any subterfuge whatever, and in consequence of the
answer which the Noble Lord has given to my question,
I think the only course which the Hon. Member for
Greenwich can pursue is to come within the bar of the
House to take his seat in this House at once.—(ll,ar.)
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS then de,cendcd from the
seat which he had occupied in the trout row of the Peers'
gallery, and advancing up the floor of the House,
took his seat on the front bench below the
gangway on the Ministerial side of the House.
This proceeding of his was saluted with
loud cheers from his supporters, accompanied by demon-
strations of a contrary nature from his opponents, and
at the moment he took the seat the uproar was so great
that it was with difficulty that we could hear
The SPEAKER, who said, I wish to call the atten-
tion of the House to the feet that there is present
now a Member who has not taken the oath of abjura-
tion. I must, therefore, repeat my former request, and
desire him at once to withdraw.

This was followed by loud cries of " Withdraw "
from the Opposition side of the House, accom-
panied by cheers from the immediate supporters of
the Honourable Alderman. In the midst of the
uproar Lord John Russell rose and attempted to address
the Speaker, but hie voice was inaudible, and at the
same time Mr. Bernal Osberne rushed forward
from the lower end of the House, forcing his
way with difficulty through the excited Members who
crowded the upper row of benches, bearing a paper in
his hand, which he handed to the Speaker, without at-
tempting to read it, amidst the noise and turmoil.
The SPEAKER here said—A motion has been handed
to me, but as the question before the House is a question
of order it takes precedence of all others.—(Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL again rose, but was not able to
address the Speaker, owing to the continued tumult
which reigned, of which cries of " Withdraw," "Chair,"
" Order." were the most prominent features. During
the whole of this scene Alderman Salomons continued
to retain the seat in the body of the House which he had
originally occupied, next to Sir W. Molesworth, undis-
turbed by the cries with which he was assailed.
The SPEAKER then said—lf the Hon. Member per-
sists in refusing to obey my order to withdraw, I must
appeal to the House to support me. That order can only
be enforced by a vote of the House.—(Cheers, and cries
of" Withdraw.")
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose. He said—lt seems to
me perfectly clear, and it is a matter which I shall not
waste any time in discussing, that the House ought
to support the Speaker.—(Loud cheers.) I do
not believe that the Speaker has authority
to enforce his order without a regular vote of the House,
and I therefore now move that Mr. Alderman Salomon&
be ordered to withdraw.—(Cheers.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE—I rise to move an amendment,
the purport of which I have already placed is your
hands. I beg you. Sir, to read that amendment.
Mr. C. ANSTEY seconded the amendment.
The SPEAKER then, amid loud cries, put both the
original motion for the withdrawal of Mr. Alderman
Salomons, and the amendment, which was, that Mr.
Alderman Salmons having been duly returned for the
borough of Gretnwicb, and having taken the usual
ea, hs—(N;), no)—in the manner most binding on his
conscience—(No, no)—is entitled to take his seat in this
Howe.

The reading of the amendment was followed by a re-
petition of uproar, which had ceased only when the
Speaker had commenced. Loud cries of Ditide, di•
vide" nsw follow. d; in the midst of which Mr. Aust.-)
rose, and was saluted with groans and cries of " Oh, oh."
Mr. ANS TEY wished to give the Hil-0 an opportu.
nity of answering the ease which he was about to put
to them.—(oh, oh.) It was said that Alderman Salo-
mons had not taken the oaths prescribed by law; but he
insisted that he had, for the oath of abjuration, which
it was alleged the Hon. M. tuber had not completed, was
not prescribed by law. The Hon. and Learned Member
was contieuing his address, hut the uproar was so great
that it was impossible to hear what he said. At length,
however, he abruptly resumed his seat, moving the ad-
journment of the debate.
The galleries were accordingly cleared, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For the adjournment ... ... 65
Against it ... ... 257
Majority against it
On our return to the gallery we found Alderman
Salmons still in his seat, and
Mr. M. GIBSON on his legs asking a question.
He said he understood the Speaker to say on
Friday last that the Hon. Member for Greenwich
must withdraw because he had not taken the
oath in the sense in which the House understood the
Act. Now, he wished to ask the Speaker whether he
could refer him to any minute of their proceedings, in
which would appear the sense in which the House un-
derstood the Act. He wished to proceed upon as much
information as possible, and he should therefore be glad
to know in what form, during the present session of
Parliament, the sense of the House had been taken as to
Its understanding the Act.—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER said he made no references whatever
to any decision of the House during the present session.
He referred to a decision come to by the House
last session under precisely similar circumstances.
The Baron Lionel de Rothschild was returned
for the City of London, and took the oaths in precisely
the same way that they have been taken by Mr. David
Salomons. The House, upon being made aware of the
omisson from the oath, came to the resolution that
the Baron Lionel de Rothschild was not entitled to
sit, he not having taken the oath of abjuration required
by law.—(Cheers.)
Mr. M. GIBSON said he was not present then, and
therefore. he was not aware of that proceeding.—(oh.)
He matted to ask the Speaker whether the resolution
of last session, relating to another person, was
binding upon them now?—(Hear, hear.) He also
wished to ask whether the words of the resolu-
tion pointed out the form of taking the oaths as re-
quired by law, so as to point to the conclusion that the
form in which Alderman Salomons proposed to take
them was not the form required by law.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL rose to order. It was not com-
petent for a Member to draw the Speaker into a debate
Lpon what the House had already done.—(bear.) He
found by the minutes of their proceedings, that there
was a resolution come to last year. that the
" 44ron Lionel de Rothschild is not entitled to vote
in this House or to sit in the House during any debate
until he has taken the oath of abjuration in the form ap-
pothted by law." Now the Speaker went upon the au-
thority of that resolution, and he (Lord John Russet°
believed the Speaker had a perfect right to do so.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON apologised to the Speaker for
having troubled him a second time with the question,
but he leas not in the House towards the close of last
session, and was, therefore, not fully aware of what then
passed.—,(Ohl oh 0
Mr. ANIS FEY then proceeded to
spoke ;to address the?
but he
House,
and was loceived with cries of "S
informed Hon, Mess' ers who were in errupiing him
that he had not yet sp ken to the original question, and
he was allowed to proceed. The question odor's them,
1 as raised by the Hon. Member for Manchester, related
to Alderman Salomons, and not to Baron Rothschild.
No decision had yet been come to in the Alderman's
ease. The House would remember that last year the
result of a similar inquiry to this was a resolution,
pledging itself to take the matter into its serious consi-
deration in the then next cession of Parliament,
but up to this very hour that pledge remained
unfulfilled. Only took at the inconsistency they were
falling into. They acknowledged Baron Rothschild and
Alderman Salonsons to be the sitting Members for Lon-
don and Gre, !I:lynch, and yet they refused to let them
sit.—(Hear, hear.) The oaths had been taken by
the Honoura ble Member for Greenwich in the form
prescribed
.by the lat and 2d Victoria. The words which
he had (mate d were not required to be taken by law.—
(Hear, hear.) The Act of Parliament to which he re-
ferred was a declaratory Act, and it provided that in all
cases where
be administ, ,satha were required to be taken they should
bred in the form which the party taking them
declared to be most binding
hear.) It on his conscience.—(Haar,
was with the authority of that Act that
Alderman,
faith Salomons omitted the words "on the true
a Christian ;" and he contended that
the law fully entitled him to do so.—(Hear, hear.)
He mask lered not that the Hon. Member had not sworn
accordini ; to the Act of Parliament, but that he had
sworn ti )0 much.—(Laughter.) Since the death of
George lIL the oath of abjuration had ceased to
be a 'lawful oath. It died With tho dynasty