The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-27 00:00:00

an individual named James Hargrave, praying for the
abolition of the Corn Laws.
Mr. Alderman WOOD gave notice that 'on Friday he
would present a petition front the persons engaged in the
soap trade in the metropolis, relative to the duties on
that article.
Mr. O'CONNOR presented a petition from members
of the King's Court Political Union against the Grand
Jury system in Ireland, and praying for an amendment ;n
the system.
Mr. O'CONNELL had been requested to support this
petition. He considered the jury laws now in contempla-
tion were a mere mockery. Last year they might have been
of use, hut now, when three or five young ensigns were to
have all the power thrown into their own hands, of what avail
would any amendment be in the jury Lows? The thing was
a mockery on the country altogether. If such an atre-
dons and abominable measure were carried through that
House, of what use was it to amend these laws ? He
would not in such a case like to be in the situation of
English Members when they again went before their con-
stituents. If they could sit in their seats while such
an abominable and atrocious measure was being car-
ried through the House, they would well deserve the fate
they were likely to meet with on that occasion, for a spirit
had grown up amongst the people in direct contradiction
to the way in which Members were now acting. These
were his reasons why he thought it unnecessary that he
should now support the prayer of this petition.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that it was with the deepest
regret that he listened night after night to those attacks
on English Members by the Hon. Member for Dublin.
The interests of Ireland were as dear to English Members
as they were to the Hon. Member himself. VHe begged to
tell that Learned Gentleman, that when the measure
to which he had alluded came before the House, he would
attend to it both at large and in detail, and notwithsteud-
ing the taunts thrown out by the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber, he would do his duty upon it, and he believed in so
sneaking for himself, he spoke for nine-tenths of the
English Members.
Mr. TYNTE presented two petitions from places in
Somersetshire, praying for the abolition of slavery.
Mr. A. SANFORD seconded the prayer of the petition.
Mr. JOHNSON presented a petition from Richmond,
in Surrey, praying for the better observance of the
Sabbath. The Honourable Gentleman said, he would
take that opportunity of correcting a false impression
which had gone forth to the public as to the intentions of
those who were anxious for the success of this measure.
They had no intention of limiting the innocent recreations
of the poor, but rather to confirm them in those enjoy-
ments, all they wanted being to protect those tradesmen
from ruin who were willing to observe the Sabbath,
against those whn had no such feelings.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that formerly he had been one
of those who objected to the proposed interference of that
House, with the observance of the Sabbath ; but the
Gentlemen interested in the measure had called upon
him and explained their intentions, in the same spirit as
stated by the Hon. Member. He entirely agreed with
them and they should have his support.
Mr. TYNTE supported the petition.
Mr. COBBETT said that in this question the in-
terests of the poor man had been totally overlooked.
Almost every poor married man in the country had a piece
of gerden, on which lie employed himself on a Sunday
morning. A servant in husbandry must obey his master's
commands, otherwise the business could never be carried
on. How was this to be met by the Hon. Gentleman ?
WILDS said, that from information he had
received, he must deny that the labourers were so em-
ployed of a Sunday morning. In many places agricultural
servants were not paid by their masters till the Sunday
morning. The consequence was, that they were obliged
to purchase their provisions on that day, which so un-
settled them, that the after part of the day was spent in
the public houses in gambling.
Mr. JOHNSTONE did not think the Hon. Member
for Oldham ought to have introduced any objection to the
proposed bill at present, as it was impossible for him just
now to know what provisions would or would not be in
the bill that might be brought forward on this subject.
Captain ELLIOTT had a petition to present on the
same subject from Kelso, and to the same effect.
Mr. COBBETT thought the law as it now stood cn
this subject quite sufficient for all useful purposes. He was
quite satisfied no law could be passed to interfere between
master and servant which would not lead to confusion which
never would be at an end. If a law were to be made
whereby servants should not be employed on Sundays,
would a cook not immediately say to her mistress that she
would not cook the dinner for Sunday ? It was said
that the measure was to prevent masters working men-
servants on Sundays, such a system would be perfectly
nugatory, unless it went into private families.—(Hear,
hear.) Were gentlemen backward in employing their
coachmen, their grooms, and their footmen on Sundays?
Why, those were a set of workmen who laboured very hard,
in Hyde Park for instance.—(Hear.) They were well
dressed up, and looked very fine, but he would be bound
to say that if they had their choice they would much
rather be at home with the maids.—(Much laughter.) If
the House were to legislate between ladies and their maids,
there would soon be such a system of legislation introduced
in this country as had never been heard of in any country.
Mr. HODSON thought the Hon. Member for Oldham
was entering too soon upon the nature of the proposed
measure. If a measure was to be introduced for the
better observance of the Sabbath it ought to have
general support.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Before the House
condemned a proposed measure of this sort, they ought,
in the first place, to know its exact danger. When it
should be introduced it should have his best attention ;
and he thought it might be so framed as not unnecessarily
to interfere between master and servant, so as to prevent
the proper recreation of the latter.
Captain ELLIOTT presented a petition from the
United Associate Congregations of Moorbattle, praying
for the total abolition of tithes.
Captain WYMES presented a petition from Auchter-
muchty, in the county of Fife, praying for the abolition
of negro slavery. Also a petition front Strathmeghlin, in
the same county, to the same effect. Also a petition from
Leslie, praying for the total abolition of tb.e Church esta-
blishment in Ireland, and that its revenues might be applied
towards the removal of the present burden of taxation.
Mr. COBBETT was much pleased to hear this petition,
and be would have been more pleased still, to have found
that it included the lay-i,iipropriations. It was the lay-
impropriations that wanted abolishing.
Mr. GILLON presented five petitions, praying for the
abolition of Cheich property in Ireland, and for its appli-
cation to some purposes calcul aril to relieve the burdens
of that country from the Political Union of Leslie, and Mom
the Protestant Dissenters of Kelso. The Hon. Manlier was
convinced that tranquility would never exist in either Ire-
land or England as bang as those who professed a religion
contrary to the Established Church of Ireland were
compelled to contribu e so largely to the maintenance
ofdoctrines wilt which they could not agree. He trust d
that tie time was not far distant when the Itieb Church
would be done away with, and that unhappy country placed
in a state of tranquil ity.
At HON. 111 EMBER, whose name we could not ascertain,
begged to .titer toe protest against the doctrine of spolia-
tion used by the petition. He considered the Church
of Ireland had se much rielit to its property es
any gentleman in Etiglend had to his.—(Herr, hear.)
ere Was no individuals who paid tithes that was
entitled to them, se that if teey Were taken away to.
morrow they would
go to the Suite. He trusted, holy-
ever, that bo h the Ceturches of England anti Ireland
were placed on too firm a basis to he shaken by every
breath that blew. The generality of Dissenters agree
with the doctrines of the Church of England ; they only
differed from it in !Ono and ceremony.
Mr. O'DWYER said the Hun. Gentleman who hail
just sat down had stated no reason why he, as a Catholic,
who did not believe in the Protestant Church, should
contribute to the support of that Church. Tithes had,
by Act of Parliament, been transferred from the Catholic
Church to t!,e Protestant Church, and he saw no reason
why an Act of Parliament cutild not alter that trans-
enjoyed tithes, they sustained their own church,
trans-
fer..--(Hear, hear.) When the Roman Catholic
clergy
and supported and educated the poor, and he would
recommend to lion. Gentlemen, before they talked of spo-
liation, to require that those who now enjoyed the tithes
should appropriate them properly, and give a portion to
the poor. He earnestly entreated of his Majesty's Ministers
that in making a Church Reform, they would make it
jsatisfactory toth teh
ten
epausluAriec.
which( Hear
they , hear.) He really be-
had proposed would
not give satisfaction—at all events, it would not give
immediate relief to the poor population of Ireland.—
(Hear) hear.) The mere taking off of ten L1;11101)1 would