The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-04 00:00:00

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

at the

ountant

Mr. M. O'FERRALL, upon his name being called from
he Speaker's list, rose to present a petition.
Lord ALTHORP said it was the understood intention of
House to proceed that morning with that important mea.
tire, the Irish Church Temporalities Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
lion. Gentlemen, he thought, would agree with him, that it
vas necessary to devote the mornings of all excepting two
lays, to the business actually in a state of progress, in order
hat the labours of the session might be finished in moderate
;trite. He would suggest that these morning sittings should be
onfined solely to the orders of the day, and the passing of
Bills, that not only might the public business proceed more
rapidly, but that such
,Gentlemen as had Bills in charge might
se enabled to prosecute their completion. He would suggest
that that day should be appropriated, as was appointed, to the
Irish Church Temporalities Bill.—(hear.)
Mr. CoFERRALL said, lie conceived it to be his duty to
Present the petition, as his name had been called.— (Cries of
No, no.") .
Lord ALTHORP, in reply to some observations from Sir
S. WHALLEY, proposed that the House should receive peti-
tions on Mondays and Wednesdays, and take the orders of the
day and Bills on Tuesday:, Thursdays, and Fridays.
Mr. FINN expressed his opinion of the necessity of having
some of his Majesty's Ministers in the House during the pre-
sentation of petitions.
Lord ALTHORP was understood to say, that when any
petition was of such a nature as to require the attendance of
some member of the Government, such attendance, upon
notice, would be given.
Mr. W. W. WYNN was sure it was the duty of every
Member to afford every facility to the progress of public
business. Whether Hon. Members agreed to the measures
to be brought forward or not, yet all must agree in the fact
that it was of the highest importance that every means
should be favoured which were calculated either to carry
those measures through, or to have them rejected.—(Hear.)
nice via! A new proposition was now brought forward, and would it
the bill! not be proper-and necessary that upon the days on which
cston had the public business was to be taken at twelve o'clock,
re Henry the sittings of the Committees now elsewhere should be sus:
he coup' pended
Whatever the measures might be, it would be ex-
ivingtoa tremely unsatisfactory to have them disposed of while a crowd
he plain' of Hon. Members were sitting, and necessarily engaged in
•tly attet another part of the House.—(Hear.) They were now at the
although usual period at which the Session closed, and yet there were
fendant'; three of the greatest questions to be considered which had ever
I the bit come before the House, and upon which Bills had not yet even
ice given' been introduced, namely, the Bank Charter, the East India and
le having the West India questions ; and all he (Mr. W.) protested
creditor!, against was, that those subjects should be now mixed up so as
mica Bat to take one one:day, another the next day, and so on. He sub.
who soon milted that his Majesty's Ministers ought to take up one, and
ngton, t.c, go on with it to a termination before they advanced to another.
edLearne the Wit` __.(Cheers
hs course would be by far the most satisfac-
, and n: tory, and *Would igreatly shrten di, cussion.—(Hear.)
Lord ATTHORP entirely concurred with what had fallen
led a vet' from the Hon. Gentleman who had sat down. He had thought at
the commencement of the session that that would be the best
DAY)'systemto adopt, although it had certainly not been attended to
_hitherto. It was the system by which business was the most
likely to be got through, and he would now assure the House
that hereafter one subject should be taken up, and that that
rived Or should be gone through with as far as was practicable before
sd Blac14; any other question of importance was touched upon.—(Cheers.)
river an
really of
was sure that had the Noble Lord been
o
opinion, at the commencement of the session, that the
Majesty systent now proposed would have been the most desirable, it
3. Ander would not have been objected to by the House. Indeed, he
remembered that when the Irish Coercion Pill was brought in,
w., ty.e,5,41 Irish Church Bill was introduced at the same time, and it
son, sat', was said that the latter was to be carried forward, pari passu,
packet' with the former. Hon. Members, however, soon found that
and per exclusive exclusive attention was given to the Coercion Bill until it was
Fadras and
lope; aa, might
carried into a law, while the Church Bill was allowed to go, he
say, entirely to sleep.—(Hear, hear.) Still he hailed
m List the present proposition as the beginning of an era, which a
and alO sounder system was to commence than had hitherto been gone
raphic a,,e; upon. It had been only a system of scrambling night-work—.
g with e' an effort to see whose physical strength was the greatest and
Tercel° would endure the longest. Now, however, they were about
would in; to begin business at ten or eleven o'clock, when all other pro.
Perly constituted bodies did begin their work, and that system
ye. should have all the assistance to maintain it which it was in
his power to afford, saving to himself the opportunity of taking
smy, ft° breakfast.—(Laughter.)
Sir R. INGLIS did not think that the system now proposed
hall, frvl Would either facilitate the progress of business, or shorten the
session.
,ngs, fr°# Lord ALTHORP moved that the order of the day for the
Hear Consideration of the report upon the Church Temporalities
3m (Ireland) Bill be now read.
tchie, SHAW begged to ask what course would be pursued
as to the amendments ?
'ova Scnii •
Conn` Mr. IV. W. WYNN suggested that, in order to relieve the
Speaker, the Bill should be recommitted, and all the business
.Iliott, St'
transacted in the Committee, on the understanding that the
,re-
port was to be received immediately after.
!son, Gls Lord ALTHORP said, upon such an understanding lie
seaflosf Would,__ at once agree with the proposition.
Chlaihre. House then went into Committee, Mr. Ewen in the
On the 3d clause being read,
Mr. WYNN said he had hoped that his suggestion as to the
0 the Cl 6 aill'Pellltment of the Commissioners, would have been adopted.
oii e considered it would be better that they should be appointed
n
ail
front L- his Majesty, as the head of the Church, instead of the Lord
the 19th i
ente
On nant,
11 was tr:, his motion to that effect, the clause was altered.
cent. P ther. ItUTHVEN suggested, that in place of paying any of
Commissioners it would be beiter that bishops should be
aPPoin ted. ,
spee air. LLOYD moved the insertion in the clause of the words
ty re- 41 not in holy order." There were the two archbishops, and
by ace_ foy.,
' archbisho s, alread appointed by the Bill to the Lord
gat Challeelior and Lord Chief Justice, so that, even were the
ity of 14 other
on 00.., ecciecathree, to be laymen, there would still be a majority of
a Lordst",e,s-
8, an 4
„, 0- .r,s,THORP could not agree with the amendment.
:hoe sobjee
ded.oiit not see that a person in holy orders should be disquali-
ointect tr be leftlt Would, in his opinion, be better that the choice should
41°1:
sir
It. the discretion of the Crown.
ndly,
hich
when th_FEEL thought they had not yet come to the time
L, that t appoint_', House would say, that ecclesiastics should not be
y,
There co to a Board that was to deal with ecclesiastical matters.
e were here six of the Commissioners already appointed
.ition be
cro,„
before ot e tileeton "tin— he would suggest that the other three should
attacl`e • Lay actor by the Bishops—that plan was now pursued in the
of IA; Mm ti,:ntrnunts to the Board of First Fruits.
that th 'NCH thought that one of the evils of the Bill was
eel by pt cler of
,ng doted
-Ix°l gY Ireland would be rendered by it so dependent,
to dot'' ICUardeu "o. he thought that the measure ought to
le the forv, to the
att Y the House with extreme jealousy. With respect
ating a I Sir 110 cent he thought it was not distinguished by good.
cr aplo Ho'iourabi 1' INGLIS thought the suggestions of his Right
e Fri
'ernraent. end ought to receive the attention of the
of at the c e could not but express the gratification he felt
nce tw onduet
mna „. " Who diet Pursued by the greater number of those Mem..
mit)? Onirch, u net Profess the communion of the Established
eco— e
of furl,
What Mr. stip,
Well a~
-..at theL thought the House ought to bear in mind
ain there Commission might eventually have to do. In
Formatia° rained
',as a surplus, the Parliament had not yet deter-
mg, „on! that i, W.nat was to be done with it—it had not been determined
ding Of If n 0 uld be applied to purposes exclusively ecclesiastic.
o`ule surplus was to be applied to temporal purposes, he
d
t ask whether it was not reasonable that there should be
temporal Commissioners for applying the fund to temporal
Purposes. Why should it be left entirely to clerical men 7
(Hear.) In his opinion, there should be the check of Lay
Commissioners, and he therefore thought it the duty of the
kin.
Gentleman to insist upon his amendment, even to a

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Lord ALTHORP could not concede with the line of argil.
Ment adopted by the Hon. Member who had
Gentlemen he
th°ughj, there was very; little chance of all the three
Krug( Clergymen. In his. opinion, the Crown ought to have
e Pportunity of appointing the Commissioners.
r, Sit S. WHALLEY thought, considering the very extensive
were
'°wers which, under the 68th, 69th and 71st clauses of the Bill,
d ve,sted in the Commissioners, to deal with any surplus
funi-,w"ich might come to their hands in the building of glebe
ihi:l,-,es and additional churches, and in the increase of small
s, as in thisrespect a duty of a very delicate nature
'"uld devolve on rtehsepm, it was very desirable, in order to
raise them above a suspicion, that there should at least
oufef.it.shnoßely
poetrlhoatey:n:tneabnnj in the commission who could not be susPec
etcrteltilgiaionna wish to support the general interests
Mr. A j
lion
. °I-STSTONE could not approve of, the constitu.
of
this Ecclesiastical Commission. In Scotland every
liriataetdter e2,,-'
is r "—"lng the interests of the church itself wa, rieg.u.
were •-1 the Ecclesiastical Courts, but when the` temporalities
ities
wheree°neerned, they then came to the supreme civil court,n
~,,,,,
s° stile was dispensed. At present the power of tthheeccronl.
• Missith:rt,ensive under this Bill that the nomination.
lirM• SeerttiThght just as well be at once vested in ithe Right
mi., Limalry for Ireland.—(Hear.)
inrnPeter,t 0 did not contend that ecclesiastical persons wereh
the Coin,. to the proper discharge of the functions w ii
possibility would -iinp(os'e • but in order to obviate the
zeal might sosPicion, that a' not illimitable, but indiscreet
well at the eXercised by the ecclesiastical members, it was
that laymen-ar4,: time to secure the independence of the Board,
mittee on the'q"u°eusitd• li),e eligible. He should divide the Corn.
Noes.
'''
a.io. '''' ******************
The questio
for
a iliVialoll WhneWnatShtehen Put, and the Gallery was cleared
Ayes
******** re * aPPeared— 47
The 149
9 against the amendment
amendtnent was consequently lost. lO2
On our • re_adirussion to the gallery, we found
• 111.r' SHE IL addressing the House The Hon. Member
rnn!luired what salaries had been fixed or supposed for the Corn-
.sissioners ? He would suggest the insertion of the words
- not exceeding I,sool."—(Cries of " Oh, and laughter."