The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-23 00:00:00

WAYS AND MEANS.

The house having gone into committee of ways and means.
The CHANCELLOR oC the EXCHEQUER said—Mr.
Fitzroy, it now becomes my duty to move certain resolutions
in the committee of ways and means, and to lay before the
house such an explanation as is necessary for their infnrma-
tion with reference to those resolutions. The ordinary prac-
tice in years when pacific relations exist between her Majesty's
Geverainent and the Governments of other independent states
is, for the Finance Minister for the time being to lay before
the committee one financial statement comprising the revenue
and expenditure for the preceding year, together with the
estimate of the receipts and expenditure for the ensuhag year.
That practice has been foetid from experience most c mvenient
to the committee, inasmuch as it places before them at a
single view the finances of the two years under consideration.
I should have been glad if it was in my power to follow
that practice ou the present occasion, but the circumstances
in which the country now finds itself have left MO no
option. War imposes necessities upon senates no less than
upon generals in the field, and renders a deviation from the
ordinary path of procedure imperative. The statement
which it is uty duty to submit to the committee tbis even-
ing will be confined to the financial position of the present
year, and will not trench upon the revenue or expenditure
of the year which is to commence upon the Ist of April next.
And this course is not upon the present occasion unattended
with advantage. For although in some respects it would
be more satisfactory to the committee to have but
one financial statement in the session—still, consider-
ing the great efforts which the country has made within
the last year—considering the great expenditure which these
efforts have occasioned, it may be satisfactory to hear, at an
early period, the state of our revenue and expenditure. Un-
certainty upon a question of this sort must be attended with
inconvenience : for it engenders apprehension iu friendly
quarters, as well as hope in unfriendly quarters—both of
which, as I expect the committee will conclude from any
statement, would, in the present instance, be equally ground-
less. I will now, with the permission of the committee, re-
call its recollection to the statement which I made last ses-
sion in bringing forward the budget of the year. The en-
venue, including the new taxes, I estimated at 67,339,0001.
The loan was taken at 16,000,0091., besides which there was
an estimate for Exchequer supply bills of 3,ooo,oool.—thus
making altogether an estimated revenue for the year of
86,339,000/. The expenditure, as I estimated upon the
samed occasion, including the payment of 1,000,0001. ways
means bills on account of the preceding year, and the
1,000,0001. loan to Sardinia was 81,899,0001. The differ-
ence, therefore, between tho estimated revenue, anti ex-
penditure
was toe
000/., and was the amount of the
margin I allowed myself ; so that if the expenditure and ,
revenue had been equal to the estimate, there would be on
the Ist of April next a surplus of 4,400,000/. However, in
the supplementary statementwhmicyh
folrmmeardocalocnulathueon2dpeortf
August, I stated that having in
down the total ways and means of the year at 86,339,0001.,
since that I had abandoned the stamp duty on bankers'
cheques, calculated to realise a sum of 200,0001. That, there-
fore, would reduce the estimated revenue for the year to
86,139,0001., and the estimated surplus to 4,240,0001. Now, 1
the committee will doubtless remember certain supplemen-
tary estimates for the military services were afterwards voted,
amounting to 6,135,000/. Well, adding that to the Previous
estimate of the expenditure—namely, 81,999,000/., we have a
total estimated expenditure of 88,134,0004 To meet this ex-
penditure there was the estimate of ways and means tit i
86,139,000/. But the committee then consented to an ad di-
tional grant of Exchequer-billaand Exchequer-bonds, in ~,„„
sequence of the increased expenditure amounting t 04,000,01 NJ& ,
making the total provision for the year 90,139,0001. Well ,the
increased expenditure being 8F5,134,000/., there consequt mtly
remains a marginal surplus of 1!,105,9001., according te the
last estimate submitted to the committee. This surplus • was,
in a great measure, required to restore the balance of re-
venue and expenditure, the former having been assisted
at the commencement of the yestr by the issue of bills to • the
amount of 1,700,000/. I now come to state to the commiti ee

how far that estimate has been verified by the result. We are
not very far from the cud of the last quarter of the year, rind
the statement which I am now about to read includes the ac-
count of the revenue and expenditure up to a late day, and
contains also an estimate for the remaining portion of the
quarter gathered from authentic sources, and may be relied
upon as likely to be accurate. In the estimate which I made
last year the Customs were taken at 22,450,0001.; while the
receipts, so far as can be estimated, will only reach to
21,600,000/., showing a deficiency of about 85),000/. below
what was estimated. The produce of the Excise was put
down at 17,921,0001., while the result only showed a return
of 16,860,00 C/., the deficiency thus amounting to 1,061,0001. ,
The estimate of the stamp duties was 6,815,0001., the
actual receipts amounting to 6,930,0001., being an excess of
115,0001. For " taxes" the estimate was 2,902,0001,,
while the produce was 2,950,0001., showing a small excess
of 34,0001. The property tax was estimated to yield ;
14,535,0001., it actually producing 14,726,0001., an excess
over estimate of 191,0001. The result of the estimate on ac-
count of the Post-office has not been very satisfactory, for
while the returns from this department were put down at
1,433,0001., the result only realised the amount of 1,111,0001.
showing a falling off of 297,0001. From the Crown lands the
receipts were estimated at 260,0001., while the miscellaneous
receipts were put down at 800,0001.; they yielded, however,
an amount of 1,100,0001., or 300,000/. in excess of estimate.
The total result, therefore, with regard to the financial return
of the year is this, that while there has been an estimate of
67,139,000/., the actual receipts have only amounted to
65,567,0001., there being, an excess in some branches of
635,0001., and a deficiency upon others of 2,280,000/. The loan
produced 16,000,0001.; the issue of Exchequer bills and
Exchequer bonds for 7,000,0001. nearly realising the amount.
So that the total estimated revenue for the year, including
both land and taxes, was 139,0001 , while the actual receipts
will be 88,593,0001., showing altogether, in round numbers,
a deficiency of 1,600,0001. That, sir, is a complete statement
of the comparison between the estimate and the actual re-
venue for the year. With regard to the expenditure : the
expenditure on account of the interest of the debt was
nearly, as was estimated, 27,384,0001,—0ther charges upon
the Consolidated Fund amounting to 1,000,000/. The esti-
mates on account of the army, navy, and ordnance amounted
to 49,812,000/., while the actual expenditure has been
51,61 ,000/. - showing an excess of expenditure over estima'•
of 1,800,0001. The estimate on account of the civil service
was 6,506,0001.—an excess of 100,0001. over the estimate.
The interest on Exchequer-bills; owing to the increased rate,
has been 60,0001. over the estimate, which was 590,0001., the
amount paid being 650,0001. The actual loan to Sardinia has
been 1,000,0001. The grand result, therefore, is this—while
the total estimated expenditure for the year has been
88,340,0001., the actual expenditure will be 90,200,0001., or
1,860,0001. in excess of estimate. Therefore the exact result
is that the state of the revenue is worse that what it was
estimated to amount to by the sum of 3,560,0001. Now the
main cause of that deficiency is owing to the article of sugar.
An increase was made last year in the duties upon sugar aid
coffee. With regard to tea and coffee, the results nearly cor-
respond with the estimate. It does not appear that the addi-
tional duties imposed upon these two articles of foreign and
colonial produce have materially diminished their eoasump-
ton. Indeed, with regard to tea, the consumption has in-
creased, for while the quantity entered for consumption in
1853 was 58,860,0001 b., in 1854 61,970,0001 b., in 1855 the
quantity amounted to 63,454,0001 b. With regard to sugar
the result is different—owing to the short importations of
that article. The importation of sugar in 1853 was 317,000
tons, in 1851 389,000 tons, while in 1855 it only reached to
281,000 toms, the deficiency, as I before said, being caused
by the shortness of the supply of the article. With
regard to the Excise almost the whole of the defi-
ciency is ascribable to ose cause, and that is to the insuffi-
cient produoe of the duty upon spirits. Several causes have
tended to that result; and first it was owing to the large
drawback upon the malt, in consequence of the changed
mode of taking that duty; secondly, to the sacrifice of the
duty upon certain articles manufactured from spirits. The
main cause, however, is ascribable to the high price of corn
prevalent during the present year; for, as the committee may
be aware, since the 15th of September last the average price
of corn has been 755. per quarter. Bat there was another
cause which influenced the price. I allude to a circumstance
which was found beneficial to the distilling trade, and which
greatly enhanced the demand of barley. I mean the great
increase which had taken place last year in the expor-
tation of British spirits in consequence of the extensive
failure in the wine crop on the Continent. The great
diminution of the wine crop on the Continent not
only diminished the quality of wine, but also of brandy ;
and this circumstance had, therefore, led to a large ex-
portation of British spirits, in order to supply the void
thus created. The spirits thus exported were not, of course,
subject to duty, and therefore yielded nothing to the revenue,
Under the head of stamps there was also a loss, as was esti-
mated, last year of about 220,0001. on newspapers, in conse-
quence of the alteration which took place in reference to the
stamp. That loss was, however, to a certain extent compen-
sated by the Post-office revenue, arising from the newspapers
passing through that establishment with the impressed stamp
upon them. Nevertheless, on the whole, the Post-office re-
venee shows a diminution. The direct taxation—the property
tax and the assessed taxes—are more than they were estimated
to be. In regard to the expenditure, the increase on the ex-
penditure is 300,0011., owing to the supplemental estimates,
which were either voted in the present session or are now
upon the table of the house. These votes are as fol-
lows :—ln the Ordnance the deficiency of the grant for
1855-56 is 646,000/. That estimate is still under the con-
sideration of the committee of supply. With regard to
the navy the excess already voted is 204,982/. The
total supplementary military and naval estimates voted or
to be voted in the present session, without referring to the
current year, is 1,631,0051. I will now state to the commit-
tee how much of it would have been incurred in an ordinary
year of peace, and how much must be set down to the extra-
ordinary cause in operation: I have made a comparison be-
tween those twe calculations, which I think will make the
matter somewhat clear to the committee. The peace expendi-
ture for military purposes, for our army, commissariat, navy,
ordnance, and including that for the Kafir war, for the 22 years
preceding the war, amounted U.)30.984,0001. The present iv. .r
bad lasted 223 months, and taking the entire expenditure dur-
ing that time, the amount was 74,519,0 10.1. The difference be-
tween these two sums is 43,564,0001. That, therefore, is the
sum, as nearly as it can bo calculated, which the war has cost
this country. I believe that that sum includes everything
appertaining to the military expenditure of the country.
The result of the statement I have now submitted to the
committee is, that we find ourselves at this moment in the
position of being something more than 4,000,0 'O/. deficient
of the sum estimated in the last session of Parliament. The
margin, which I originally reckoned at 4,4u0,0001., would,
as nearly as possible, have loft the expenditure and the re-
venue at the end of the year without any certain reserve or
surplus. The resolutions which I mean to place in the hands
of the chairman are for the purpose of enabling the Govern-
ment, with the consent of the house, to place the finances of
the country for the present quarter in the position in which
they would have been placed if the estimates of last year
had been verified by the result. The excess in the deficiency
of the revenue leaves about 4,000;000/. to be provided for.
I will, therefore, submit to the committee a resolution for
the supply of 5,00e,0001., which will amply provide for
the service in the present quarter, and which will leave
I same surplus to meet the immediate demands in the
ensu-
ing finaucial year. Sir, the entire sum which has been
already borrowed in the present year is composed as fol-
lows—namely, of a loan amounting to 15,000,0001., of
6,000,000/. of Exchequer-bills, and 1,000,0001. of Exchequer-
bonds, making altogether 23,000,0141/. To that sum will be
added—if these resolutions receive the assent of the commit-
tee—a further sum of 5,000,00u1., which will make altoge-
ther within this year, raised by loan, a stun of 28,C00,000/. of
increased ex ientliture. Sir, lam well aware of the great di,-
adv intage of imposing so large and so new a burden upon the
Exchequer as the sum I have just stated ; but in considering
the magnitude of the new burden we should not allow our-
selves to be disheartened. We must not suppose that we
have thereby in defraying the expenses of this costly and gi-
gantic war—that we have loaded the springs of industry in
this country with a burden whieh is likely to crush them.
We know the apprehensions which in former years were en-
tertained with regard to the successive additions to the na-
tional debt, Those fears have been explained in a passage
of a work which most of the members of this house no doubt
have read with instruction and with pleasure, I allude
to Mr. Macaulay's recently published volumes of the " His-
tory of England," in which he illustrates the origin of the
national debt. (Hear, hear.) After showing the usfounded
alarms which some of the very greatest writers of
the last century—persons profoundly versed in the most
advanced doctrines of political economy—having illustrated
the alarms and apprehensions which they entertained, he
proceeds to make the following remarks :—" A long experi-
ence justifies us in believing that England may in the 20th
century be better able to bear a debt of 1,630,000,000/. than
she is at present prepared to meet this loan ; but be this as
it may those who predicted that she would sink under
50,0)0,0001., under 80,000,000/., under 140.000,0001., *der
240;000,000/. and lastly under 800,000,0001., were beyond
all doubt, under a twofold mistake ; they overrated the pres-
sure of the burden, and then underrated the strength by
which that burden was to be borne." Sir, the circumstances
of the country at present show clearly that we should com-
mit a great error if, it the words of Mr. Macaulay, " we un-
sierrated the strength by which the burden is to be borne." I
will, by the permission ofthe committee, call attention to a few
facts, which show how little the general trade and resources
of the country have suffered, notwithstanding the great
efforts which have been made to carry en the war. I will first
ask attention to the subject of exports. The total value of
British and Irish produce exported was, duriugthe year 1853,
93,933,000/ ; in 1854, 97,184,000/. ; and in 1855, 97,364,010/.
—showing, therefore, a very slight diminution in the value of
exports since 1853, which was a year of unusual speculation
both in Australian and American produce. There was a great
4iminution in the exports in 1855, which was not, however,
dire to the countries which would be naturally affected by the
influence of war, but was due to the trade with Australia and
Am erica. In 1854 the value of our exports to Australia was
11,734,000/. ; in 1855 it fell to 6,279,000/. The value of the
exports to the United States was in 1854, 21,410,000/. ; in
1855, it was only 17,312,0011. These facts again showed
that the falling off' of our exports, then, was not traceable
to the war. I will now trouble the committee with a
statement in regard to our shipping. The tonnage catered
into the ports of the United Kingdom leas, in 1853,
7,797,000 tons ; in 1854 it was 7,899,000 tons;
and in 1855, 7,013,000 tons. With regard to the ships
cleared out 1853 it was 7,583,01)0 tons ; in 1854,
7,817,000 tons; in 1855, 8,348,000 tons. The numbers of
ships built were, in 1853, 798 ; in 1854, 803 ; and in 1855,
1,098. I will not trouble the committee with following out
further details. What I have already stated mast, I think,
prove, in the words of her Majesty's Speech, that " the
resources of the country are unimpaired." With regard to
the question as to the defraying the expenses of the war
from a loan or from taxation, it must be borne in mind by
the committee that the war expenditure is of necessity, to
use the language of political economists, unproductive.
The character of a war expenditure belongs equally to
the revenue raised by loans and by taxation. Of the
amount I have stated of the war expenditure, beyond
40,000,100/. has been raised in one year by taxation. For
tire most part that was expended in an unproductive man-
ner, and had left so traces behind. We had bequeathed
nothing durable to posterity. There would have been the
same difference whether we had defrayed the cost of the
country by loans or by taxation. Sir, the resolution I am
a bout to ask the assent of the committee to will, if acquiesced
enable the Government to raise the sum of 5,000,1100/. by
a loan. That loan has been arranged upon terms which I
trust will be considered, looking to the present price of
stooks, as advantageous to the nation. The price has been
90 in the Three per Cent. Consolidated Annuities. This,
think, will be considered ou the whole a fair price. In audi-
tion to this resolution I shall also have to submit certain re-
solutions in respect to the funding of Exchequer-bills. Ex-
chequer-bills, from various causes, have been at a consider-
able discount since last autumn. A partial increase has
been made in some instances cf a halfpenny, and in other
instances of a farthing, which produced for a time some
results, but which did not permanently
keep them up at
Par. It therefore became necessary for the executive
Government to resort to one of two expedients—it was
necessary either to fund the Exchequer-bills or to in-
crease the rate of interest upon the Exchequer-bills in
circulation. The process of funding Exchequer-bills is
simply the converting of one kind of security into another.
It is not the creation of a new deb':,, but the changing of the
debt represented by Exchequer-bills into a debt represOited

by I.erpetual annuitiee. Well, sir, the amount of Exchequer- to penalties--which penalties were commonly not levied.
bills which it is proposed to fund is 3,000,00)1. If the re- Even when they ere levied, would the flue find shoe,, clothes,
suit of that operation be the means of bringing the rest of and supplies for our soldiers, our horses, or our artillery ? It
the Exchequer-bills up to pay, it will be found to be a most is poor consolation under such circumstances to know that a

advantageous arrangement. I do not know whether the com-

mittee wish to be informed of the timber of Exchoquer-Lills
issued last year. The total amount of Exchequer-bills now
eutstamli•ig is '23,930,600/. The amount, however, in the
hands of the public may be taken at about 17,0)0,000/. The
rate.of interest, is equal to 31. 163. per cent. Assuming
that the measure I am about to submit should succeed in raising
the price of Exchequer-bills the amount of about '20,000,900/.
being at par would be a saving to the public of about 193,0001.
per annum, as compared with tho alternative of the raising

of the rate of interest. The total amount of outstanding
bills is 23,000,0001. The annual interest is 1,053,0001. It
might, perhaps, become possible, by straining the powers of
borrowing entrusted to the Executive Government, to provide
for the deficiency of 4,0:0,0001. for a little time longer. liut
the powers of borrowing committed to the executive govern-

fine has been levied. The report of Sir J. M'Nicl and Colonel

Tulloch, the commissioners sent to the Crimea, states that
while soldiers had to pay for their shoes, they were unwilling
to purchase them from the public stores ; the soles came off,
and the leather was bail. Similar complaints were made as
to the quality of the clothing, which was quite unfit to stand
the rough work of the trenches, and was utterly inferior to
the quality of the French clothing. This arose from the prin-
ciple of buying in the cheapest market what was cheapest. A
man who paid Ss. for, a pair of boots that lasted a month,

bought them detrer than one who paid Us. for boots that
lasted half a year. The Government were not to blAine. The
inspector of clothing could sot examine 40,100 pairs of boots
and shoes. He turned them over to his subordinates. Much
fraud was thus practised ; many of those who had the power
of passing goods were open to gratuities, and bad goods were

ment have been confined within narrow limits by the wise
jealousy of former parliaments. Their whole power of borrow-
ing is limited to the issu ng of deficiency bills to be made
charges on the Consolidated Fund, which must be repaid iu
the quarter, and also to the issuing of ways and means, ap-
plicable only to the public services, and which must be paid
off in the subsequent quarter. Beyond that the Executive Go-
vernment are whollyunable to raise a single shilling by borrow-
lug. They cannot issue a single Exchequer bill, they cannot
sell a perpetual annuity without the consent of Parliament. I
am aware that there are some persons whose imagination
takes fire at the idea of a loan to be raised. However much
they may be disposed to blame even the limited extent of
this loan, I think, upon consideration, they will be of
opinion that the course taken by the Government is on the
whole a prudent one. All, therefore, I propose to do by the
present resolution is, to ask the committee to place the Go-
vernment in the sansi position as if an extraordinary expen-
diture had taken place in the present year, and as if no ex-
traordinary circumstances had arisen in the high price of food
and other contingencies had not occurred to diminish the
weight of taxation. Sir, if these resolutions should meet the
approbation of the committee, the Government will after-
wards ask the sanction of Parliament to provide ample ways
and means for the ensuing quarter. We shall then be able to
judge how far the negotiations new proceeding in a neigh-
bouring country are likely to terminate iu a safe and honour-
able peace. If, happily, they should lead to that issue, the
Government will have the power deliberately to consider the
state of the revenue, to revise the estimates, and to calculate
what will be necessary to meet the expenditure of the follow-
ing year. If unhappily, however, these negotiations should not
tarmivate as we must all desire, and that we shall not have
such a peace as would cement the interests of Europe in a
lasting and solid mauuer, it will then be the duty of the Go-
vernment to appeal to this house to place them in a position
in which they will be enabled to meet the large estimates for
warlike purposes that will be in such a case required, and to
continue the struggle in which we have been engaged during
the last year. Having submitted this explanation to the com-
mittee, I will now move, sir, the resolutions which I have
placed in your hands.
The CHAIRMAN then put the first resolution, which was
one empowering the Government to raise a loan of 5,000,0001.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said it was quite clear they had
incurred the.paymeut of a heavy bill, and he was not aware
the Government could have resorted to a better mode for its
liquidation than that proposed by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS. objected to the mode adopted by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer for raising this money.
It would have been better had the right honourable gen-
tleman raised this money by a loan, receiving the sterling
for every 11. of debt, whereby they would have reduced the
amount of interest to be paid on the sun borrowed. He ob-
jected to their entailing a portion of this debt ou posterity,
and considered it a very unwise course to adopt. The debt
of this country by Government following out that course
would increase to such an amount, that the people would be
unable to bear it, and the consequence would be the endan-
gering the institutions of the country, if it did not affect the
Throne also.
Mr. JAS. MACGREGOR thought that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer had adopted a prudent and judicious course—
(hear)—and as•to what the hon. member for Lambeth had
said about Mr. Macaulay turning prophet, he (Mr. Macgregor)
would remind the hon. member that he had himself indulged
in prophecy as to what the effect-of the present system would
be inyespect to posterity. (Hear.)
Mr. WILKINSON was of opinion that posterity would
not have much reason to complain at the rate at which
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was raising the required
funds ; and the fact that the right hon. gentleman was able
to procure money at 31. 6s. Bd. was strong, as showing the
confidence capitalists had in this country being able to meet
all her engagements. (Hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the measure was one that left
them but little discretion, and at the same time with little
with which to find fault. Considering the limited amount re-
quired by the Government, he found no fault with the course
pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought
hon. members would leave the house with a false impression
if they believed the war had cost no more than that stated
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He (Mr. Gladstone) un-
derstood the Government had borrowed 28 millions during
the present year, and now, by raising 5 millions on loan, and
funding 3 millions of Exchequer-bills, they were adding 9
millions sterling more to it. He did not consider the compa-
rison made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to show the
cost of the war a fair ono, and when they came to consider
the large amounts that were due, and contingencies arising
on an extension of their military system, and the effects of
war generally, they would fled that the country had expend-
ed considerably more than 45 millions on this war. With
regard to the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that a wise jealousy on the part of the Parliament had con-
fined the borrowing powers of the Government within narrow
limits, the result had been to show a very unwise liberality
and great carelessness on the part of the Government in en-
trusting t) the executive the powers of borrowing by an in-
direct process. He intended, kid before he left office, to
have introduced a bill still further limiting the borrowing
powers of the Government; and lie hoped that when they
had concluded an honourable peace the right lion. gentleman
would turn his attention to that subject.
Mr. P. URQUHART having addressed the house,
The resolutions were agreed to.
The house then resumed. „
SUPPLY.
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Col. DUNNE complainedthat no information had been fur-
nished respecting the Ordnance estimates. All that could be
ascertained was that the salaries of the officers had been in-
creased euortnously in certain departments but the duties
bad been most inefficiently performed. With regard to the
accounts themselves he dial not believe it would have been
possible to cramso much confusion into so few sheets of paper.
It was a perfect Balaklava, with Turkish, German, and Italian
1 accounts all mixed up together, without order or method.
1 Toe extravagance that was exhibited in the War Department
was perfectly monstrous. In 1 52 and 1853 that department
cost only 101,1441., whereas for 1856-7 the estimate was
169,0661., thus showing a loss to the country of about
1 67,0001. The present system of clothing was the most expen-
sive, extravagant, and absurd system in the whole world.
Instead of the old system of placing the responsibility of cloth-
ing the troops upon the colonels, the Government had adipted
a system of contracts which they could not carry out, and
it was to be hoped that this question would be referred to
a committee of inquiry. It was impossible for the Govern-
ment to undertake the clothing of the army, and there
would be great loss to the country' in making the attempt.
Right honourable gentlemen opposite believed that the
French system could be introduced into our service, but
that was out of the question. Our army was too small,
and the men were not ready to turn their hands to any-
' thine as the French were. (The ho ‘ourable gentleman then
detailed the system of clothing adopted in the French service
at considerable length). For the British Government to un-
dertake a manufactory for clothing our army, . would
require an out'ay of about 48,0001., for manufactories,
and the saving proposed, even if it could be effected,
would not cover the interest of the money advanced. But
it was quite impracticable, and the only sound plan was to
have it done by contract with respectable tradesmen, giving
the colonel the responsibility of seeing that the contracts
were properly performed. The present system, however, had•
been pushed to a dangerous excess 'in the endeavour to get
contracts at the lowest possible price. For instance, when
the Land Transport Corps wanted trousers, a highly-respect-
able firm tendered for them at 235. a-pair, and they were to
make up cloth worth Bs. a-yard. But another tender came in
for 18s. which, without ceremony, was accepted. What was
the result ? Cloth worth not more than ss. sd. a-yard was
used, and the work was so bad that the Government were
ashamed to serve them out ; and if they ever were served, it
must be with a compensation to the men, The saddlery for
the German Legion, which was alluded to the other night,
was another instance of similar bad management. The horses
bits, too, were all bad, and it was said this was because they
were of galvanised iron. But that was not the reason at all ;
the truth was they were all cast instead of being wrought
iron, and snapped directly. The remedy for all this was
not to institute GOvernment • establishments, but to see
that proper contracts were made, and those contracts pro-
perly performed, Only recently a contract had been made
for rifles, and 20,0001. advanced to an unsafe firm, and but
for tho activity of an officer in the department, who went
down in great haste, and was fortunate enough to secure a
mortgage on the factory, the whole of this money would have
been lost, and the rifles most likely have gone to the Russians.
The estimate for the Government factory for making firearms
there was an item in the estimate sufficient, at the present
contract prices, to furnish 200,000 stand of arms. But lead we
got them? It was notorious that our forces were deficient of
rifles. It was very proper Oki that the house should know
whether all the men asked for were enlisted, or only expected
to be. We ought, from the estimates, to have 264,000 men
in what was called the British army, and he wished to know
whether we had them ? He should like information of the
same kind respecting the German Legion and the Militia, be-
cause be bad heard recently that a regiment of militia had
been disbanded because its number was not complete.
Foreign. Legions were the most expensive troops we could
have. There had been already 778,0001. expended for German
and Italian troops for which no equivalent had been received,
and if the war ceased to-morrow, that money would all be
entirely lost. There was 300,0001. also for the Turkish con-
tingent, without any details at all, and 93,0001. for clothing,
besides other items, making nearly half-a-million for a force
that will never be of any great service, while their officers
were most extravagantly paid as compared with our own.
The most monstrous item of all, however, was a million and
a quarter for the Land Transport Corps, and 400,0001. for
animals, when it was notorious that the want of this body
was the cause of all our disasters. Whoever was responsible
for the want of that transport service was responsible for all
the evils we suffered in the Crimea. (Hear.) The hen. and
gallant colonel, thee, after alluding to the bad quality of the
huts, and denouncing the present system of war appoint-
ments, by which most incompetent persons were placed in
the highest situations, purely 'from family connexions, con-
cluded by moving that the estimates be referred to a com-
mittee.
Mr. MONSELL said that the greater part of his hon.
friend's speech referred to matters that he could only reply
to in committee on the votes. As for the Government
clothing the army, such an idea had never crossed the brain
of any of her Majesty's Ministers. The only statement that
he would formally contradict, however, was that of the ineffi-
ciency of the army appointments. There never was an army
in the presence of an enemy better fed, clothed, and disci-
plined than our own at this moment. It certainly was the
very last thing he should have expected the hon. and gallant
colonel to have stated that the recent appointments were un-
satisfactory.
Mr. J. L. RICARDO said the existing deficiencies, of
which much had been heard lately, were chiefly owing to
what might be termed the open tender system. It required
some perseverance indeed to ascertain what the Government
system was; for in some cases contracts were made without
tenders, in other cases large orders were given without con-
tracts, while in others the open tender system was adopted.
The clothing department that had been alluded to by the hon.
member opposite (Col. Dunne) was a fair type of that system.
Ho has to send in a sample, and after the sample all the
clothing was to be made. Who was the judge? Why the
director-general of clothing—a most excellent man—but no
judge whatever of cloth. The system leads to this—that men
tendered upon chance upon being able to deceive the in-
spector. This respectable tradesmen would not do ; and the
respectable men were thus driven out of the trade altogether.
The contractors were sometimes found out, and were liable

passed accordingly. When the expenditure of the country
was at the greatest it should be administered with the greatest
economy.
Lord PALMERSTON appealed to the house on the incon-
venience of the course pursued by the honourable member.
who had just sat eo vu. It was quite obvious that if mat-
ters of detail—i: a tors which should properly be dis-
cussed in committee —were thus brought forward on the
motion that the speaker leave the chair—that those whose
duty it was to bring forward measures of this kind, hat •
ever replied to any hon. member—were compelled to be
eileut for the rest of the evening, and were unable to give
that information for the very purpose of affording which they
were asked to go into committee. If his right hon. friend was
to give an answer to all the details thus brought under dis-
cussion, he would have to anticipate all the remarks which
lie would have to make in committee,. The hon. gentleman
who spoke last had made a speech which he had intended to
make on a motion of a committee of inquiry, for hich he had
given notice, and to which the Government were prepared to
assent, and which that very evening he had saf, that if not
himself in his place, he should ask an hon. friend of his to
move for him. It was sufficiently inconvenient to discuss
matters of detail of army estimates, on the motion that the
Speaker leave the chair, when his hen. friend could make
no reply ; but it was atilt more inconvenient to hear a speech
on army clothing at a time when those whose duty it was
were unable, by the forms of the hoerse, to give any expla-
nation. He (Lord Palmerston) had been long in that house,
and had had some experience iu it— and it was strange to
see how, on some subjects, it vibrated and oscillated from
side to side. At one time, if anytbin g was specially urged
upon tho GovernMent, it was the ieery mode of supplies
reads by open tender. Nothing was 'more constantly urged
by his lamented friend, Mr. Hume, than this, as the only
mode of procuring things good and :procuring them cheap.
The instances quoted of supplies not good in their kind were
not fairly quoted. They had to be ob tamed under a sudden
emergency, and were not obtained by. contract or tender. It
was when, by the misfortune of a great storm, supplies were
lost which it was urgent to replace in I my manner that offered
itse:f. At all events, a system which hat 1 only been in force from
June last, should not be judged by what occurred a year and a
half ago. He would put it to the house if it was not for their
own convenience to permit the Speaker to leave the chair ?
Colonel NORTH said he thought it was understood that
they were not to go into the estimates.
Lord PALMERSTON slid that what his right honour-
able friend had stated was this : that they were proposing
to take votes ou account, and that it was competent to
them to discuss those votes, butes the votes must necessarily
come again before the house, there wo uid be another oppor-
tunity for discussing them.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said that these were very compli-
cated estimates, and that only 36 ho urs had been given for
their consideration. This was sharp practice, and the leaders
of the Opposition bench had abandoneal their position, and the
only chance lay in the feelings of the Government as to • what
was duo to the country. He repeated. that it was sharp prac-
tice the bringing the votes forward after only having been
circulated for 36 hours. The country would not approve of
such a proceeding. He conceived that this was a very impor-
tant occasion. They were about to vote estimates in the un-
certainty of peace or war, on a new plan—ordnance, army—
all mixed together. He ought to kucew something about the
matter. He did not want to interrupt -the forms of the house.
He protested against these estimates—pra-eminently and
without example important, such as heel not been brought for.
ward for 40 years—being brought fervrard at 36 hours' notice.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, tint with all the diligence he
could use he had not been able even to read the estimates
through. There were many millions having no reference to
the war, and ho protested against such proceedings. He
should move that the estimates be deferred till Monday.
(Cries of " Move, move.")
Mr. MUNTZ rose to make some observations on the sys-
tem of tender. He learnt from good a uthority that that sys-
tem was bad in one respect. When geode bought by tender
ought to be rigorously examined, the 'examination which now
took place was of the worst description, done by young men
of delicate constitution. Without pro per examination it was
impossible to prevent abuse.
Colonel SOMERSET complained of the misrepresentation as
regards the army made by the gallant officer near him (Col.
Dunne). Amongst other things it had been asserted that
Lord Raglan chose his staff under the impression that there
was not to bo a shot fired. He begged'to repel this insinuation.
Colonel DUNNE had never spoken of the army as con-
stituted now. There bad been a mods of selection of which
he could not approve, but had stated that there was more in-
competence than in former years ; but the gallantry of the
army no one denied.
Mr. M. CHAMBERS approved of open competition by con-
tract, but it was necessary to prevent. abuses. He had been
anxious at the contreencement of the contest to see how Go-
vernment would proceed in the matter of contract. He had
then heard it said with grief that the Government establish-
ments were insufficient, and they were driven to the contract
system. He had discovered that in so doing they had been
subjected to great abuses. He (lid not agree with the obser-
vations of the hon, member for Stoke-upon-Trent (Mr. Ri-
cardo), that contracts should be confined to respectable trades-
men. How was the respectability of any tradesman to be as-
certained ? The fault was a very plain one, understood by all
business men—not to have those who understood the subject,
and in whom confidence could be placed to examine the articles.
This man should be a man of integrity, and be dismissed if he
ever made a false representation. They had good officers to
make time contract, but none to see that those contracts were
properly executed. There was every necessity of having
proper inspection of articles when they were to be supplied
according to sample. Instead of sending boctei and shoes to
the army, why not send bootmakors and shoemakers? When
once the contractors knew that goods were properly inspected,
they would take due care of the fulfilment of their contract.
It was important to condescend to small things, without
which no Government could be properly conducted.
Mr. SPOONER said the question was whether the house
was prepared to go into committee on the estimates before
them. He agreed with the hon. and gallant member opposite
(General Evans) that these were peculiar estimates, and that
it was sharp practice to vote them at so short a notice. The
noble lord said that only a part of the votes were taken, and
that there would be other opportunities of discussing them.
But, after having once given a vote, it would be impossible
to reopen the question.
Sir C. WOOD could not understand why the honourable
member could object to vote upon account, or think himself
precluded thereby from future discussion.
Mr. SPOONER said that he had said no such thing. But
take the first vote on the paper, which involved a pledge
which, could not be revoked.
Sir C. WOOD referred to what had taken place the other
night. Instead of taking the full vote of three millions and a
half on the navy estimate, lie had taken a vote of three mil-
lions, and the whole subject had to come again before the
house. Honourable members were actually debarring them-
selves from the opportunity of understanding what was pro-
posed and of forwarding public business.
The Speaker then left the chair
SUPPLY.
The house then went into a committee of supply.
Mr. MONSELL said he proposed to take a supplemental
vote of 294,1541., comprising 65,3731. for barrack sup-
plies, most of which were sent to the East ; 91,017/. for
boots and shoos, having to supply the Turkish Contingent
with them ; and 137,7011. for warm clothing, in addition to
120,0901. that had been expended for the same purpose.
These increases also contained large payments for the mortar
establishments in the. East, and for stores, &c., supplied to the
Baltic fleet. There were also additional expenses at home re-
quired to be covered by supplemental votes. In reference to
15,000/. for wages to be employed in the Tower, the hon. gen-
tlemsn said that during the last year the arrangements for ex-
amining the necessary articles at the Tower were found ineffi-
cient, and it was necessary to take additional room in St. Ka-
tharine Docks for the reception of articles from the contractors
instead of at the Tower, the effect of which had been a better
system of inspection now existed in the Tower than formerly,
and many of the evils complained of, and which he admitted
to be well•founded, were now remedied, and everything
would, for the future, be conducted to the entire satisfaction
of the public. The carrying out these reforms entailed, neces-
sarily increased expenses. A vote of 40,0001. would be
required for Land Transport waggons, and 37,0001. for har-
ness. The hon. gentleman opposite had stated they were
unserviceable. The axles, however, had been tested, and
found to bear a heavier weight than was intended. It, how-
ever, would he desirable for the future that these waggons
should be made stronger. 25,0001. were required for improve-
ments in the Laboratory at Woolwich, for the construction of
shells under the superintendence of Captain Boxer, the in-
ventor of the machinery, whereby a saving was effected to the
public from 111. 15s. per ton to 61. 6s. Bd. per ton. The sum
- was a portion of 50,000/. that the alterations would cost,
and he hoped the saving that would accrue from the cheaper
mode of obtaining them would repay in the course of the en-
suing year the investment of the money. He need scarcely
enlarge upon the advantage this establishment would be iu
the event of war again occurring. A sum of 1,2681. would be
required to defray the expenses of a select committee at
Woolwich. With reference to the conducting of scientific
experiments, and 1,1001. for the examination of candidates
for the artillery and engineers, great advantages had resulted
from it, and the examinations of the cadets had been satis-
factory, and. experience had shown that the selections that
had been made hitherto had been successful as regarded
learning and military bearing. The establishment at Shoe-
buryness was one of great importance, and was the only place
they had for trying heavy ordnance. The results during the
past year had been important in getting rid of fallacies in the
public mind with reference to inventions in large guns, and
it was necessary they should have such a place, where they
could test fire-arms of both large and small calibre. He now
came to the consideration of the army estimates for the present
year, and he saw no difficulty in their comprehension by gen-
tlemen accustomed to such estimates. Many of the votes would
be the same as on former occasions, whilst the blending toge- •
ther of others would be an improvement and, in accordance
the recommendation of the committee on army organisation
which sat in 1837, and who impressed the importance of
the whole of the army estimates being presented before
them at one view. The civil department of the army had
been removed from the War Department, and placed under
the Secretary of State for the Home Department. TheaCnoomial-
missariat Department had undergone a change, the fin
department being removed to the Treasury, and that of pro-
viding food, drc,, only being confined to the Commissariat. In
the three last years of the late war the estimates exceeded
those he note submitted to the house. InlBl3 the estimates for
army, ordnance, and commissariat amounted to 36,245,2381. ;
in 1814, to 49,482,9111. ; and, in 1815, to 49,562,2691.
These amounts exceeded considerably the amount of the esti-
mates it would be his duty that night to submit to the house.
The hon. gentleman then referred to the order of valour lately
instituted, which he said would be retrospective in its opera-
tion, and read several returns relative to the healthy condi-
tion of the army in the Crimea, which he contrasted with the
state of the health of the army in other parts of the world.
This, in great measure, was attributable to the improvements
that had taken place in the food and clothing of the men and
the excellent sanitary arrangements made in the camp by Dr.
Sutherland and the gentlemen who had assisted him. The re-
cruits that had been sent out to the Crimea were not of so
young an age as was generally supposed. He found that ja
10,268 men sent out to the Crimea between April and 0'4.,
1855, that 162 only were under 18 years of age ; 5,318 were
between the ages of 18 and 21 ; 2,822 between those
above
fo2vel
and 24 ; 2,214 between those of 24 and 30 ; and 412 b
30 years of age, Another return showed the actusal ages of
the men now in the Crimea, and also those of the, erply when
the war commenced, and which also showed that the state-
ment that had been made, that the army was Composed of

boys, was incorrect. With regard to the amount of crime
in the army, there was at one time a considerable amount of
drunkenness ; but General Codrington had stated that it
had declined ; and that not above two men a day
out of a hundred were now hreught before the autho-
rities for such an offence. Other officers bore testimony to the
admirable condition of the troops, and also that of the Fo-
reign Legion. During the past year, alterations had. been-
made in the arrangement and supplies of the army for the
benefit of the soldier. He had referred to the order of valour.
The kit was now supplied to the recruit without being de-
ducted from his bounty-money. The mode of seeewing a small
rent out of the pockets of the soldiers for the canteens had
been aholiShed, and the' canteens were let simply as other
shops or houses, without the extra premium which had to
come after all out of the pockets of the soldiers. A number
of clerkships had been opened at Woolwich for nen.comrais-
sioned officers of Sappers and Miners, and which it was hoped
would ultimately be extended to the other parts of the army.
Sixpeuce a-day addition to the pay of the army in the Crimea
was an alteration the Government might justly take credit
for, and however mucli it might have been at first abused was
now working well, and large amounts of the savings of
the soldiers there were being sent home. That additional pay
had induced many officers' servants to volunteer fer service in
the East. There were many other advantages that had been
conferred on the army—that of the medical staff board com-
prising ten companies of 12() men each. These men were not
selected at first with great care, but now the returns were
satisfactory. These 120 men were in attendance on hospitals
containing 500 patients, and had to attend to their wants. The
civil hospitals established in the East had been of great ad-
vantage as a means of relieving the military hospitals. The
hon. gentleman, after a few other remarks, said he now came to
the separate votes. He spoke rather indistinctly, but was un-
derstood, to say he required a vote of 221,997 men, which was
an excess of 30,378 men over that of last year, =kin 224,997
British troops, and 21,719 foreign corps. The number of the
army in India last year was 29,629 men, which was now reduced
to ' 6,363 men; occasioned by the withdrawal from that country
of two regiments of cavalry and two of infantry. These would
have to be again made up, and it was the intention of the
Government to increase the relative numbers of artillery as
compared with the rest of the army, and of keeping up a
larger force of this description than had been usual, the ex-
perience of last year having shown the necessity of such a
change being effected. 1,192 men Would be required to in-
crease the Sappers alel Miners, which, for the future, were to
form part of the Engineer Corps. This body was to be in-
creased, and to go through a proper course of training. 1,202
men would be required for the Land Transport co:•ps. For
the Foreign Legion corps an increased veto would. be taken.
The number of men voted last year was 14,950, and it was pro-
posed now to ask for 21,719 men. There had been already en-
listed about 11,001) men, consisting of Germans and Swiss,
and 2,500 Italians ; and it afforded him great satisfaction to
be able to state, that so far the conduct of these men had
merited the approval of officers of all classes. 9,020 would
be required for the Land Transport Corps ; and already 7,000
men had been engaged, and were in the Crimea ; and from
the arrangements lately entered into between Lord Hardinge
and General Codriugton, this corps would have for the future
a more military character, and be under the entire control of
the generals of division, to which their respective detach-
ments might be attached. 200,000/. increase would be re-
quired in the amount of pay over that of last year, arising
!rem the establishment of the camp at Aldershott and at the
Curragli.; the increase in the medical staff, commissariat, the
staff in the Crimea, field. trains, &e., arising from the exten-
sive operations in the East. The sum of 443,0281. would be
the required increase for the Land Transport Corps, but there
was an apparent decrease of 121,180/. on the levy money for
recruits, owing to the new regulations that have been issued
with reference to it.
The next item was 300,0001. for the Turkish Continent,
the details of which were not given, because no accurate in-
formation had been rexived. It was for 29,000 men, at 41.
per annum each.
The next item was for the extra 6d. a day paid to the men
in the Crimea.
The next item was for the purchase of horses, 351,8111.
This was for increase in expenditure. He would now proceed
to the Militia vote, which last year was 3,435,7281, and this
year 3,150,1201. Last year the number of mei was 38,520,
and this year it is 66,317 ; and there would shortly be accom-
modation for five or six thousand more men. The number of
volunte‘ n•s to the line between the 20th of November, 1854,
and the 31st of December, 1855, was 22,014, and from that
time to t he Bth inst. the number was 4,830.
The ue xt item was for the Army Works Corps. They had
rendered most valuable services last year, and without them
we should. have been in great difficulty both with the huts
and the re cads. Though he mach wished they should be re-
placed by regularly trained military men, still their services
should not; on that account be overlooked. Among other
things, he could not help referring to the floating factory,
which had literally removed a considerable portion of the
Woolwich dockyard work to the actual scene of operations,
where it had been most useful.
The next -vote was Vote 6, and there was there a decrease
of 36,2911., occasioned by the removal of the post-office, and
an increase of 11,3901. for extra clerks, and 5,0001. for the
topographical 0 epartmenss.
The next rte in was 1,8001. for increase of professional staff
in the luspecto r-General of Fortification's department, ren-
dered neeessae y by the great increase of duty.
The next its in is an allowance to junior clerks who do the
extra work of the senior clerks. There were 15 clerks trans-
ferred to the VI 'ar-office, and not charged ; for this there was
3,5201. charges 1, and other sums, making altogether 24,2831.
The next item n was for head-quarters of military establish-
ments, which: last year was 19,6941., and this year is 22,7911.,
being an inciegese of 3,0971.
The next charge is for civil establishments, which last
year was 402 ,3351.,
and this year is 514,1411., being an ex-
cess of 111,8 061. for extra clerks and works at the various
new establish ments, the details of which the right honour.
able gentlema ,n read to the house. While upon this item
he could not 1 sass it by without paying the highest compli-
ment to the he ad of the Ordnance Stores Department at Be-
laklava for the excellent manner iu which he had performed
• his duties.
• The next yet e was for wages upon which there was an in-
L crease on last : rear of 289,3761. for artificers, extra workmen,
and labourers : it the various factories and establishments.
The lion. and g allant gentleman opposite (Col. Dunne) had
spoken dispara; tingly of the Government small arms factory,
1 but he spoke as if contractors always kept their word. Un-
fortunately the y did not, but the principal portion of the
machinery has now arrived. The contracts were made with
the best firms in :America, au(l the Government could not help
their not fulfilli ag those contracts.
The next vote i was for the increase in the small anus fac-
tory at Birming7 earn, on account of the large additional num-
ber of guns that .had been supplied.
There were tl ten some small items of extra expense for em-
barkation, &c., mot, neeessaey to be further alluded to.
The next item . was for clothing, which showed an excess of
131,0001., arisir se • from the great augmentation in the num-
ber of men in tl is Army this year, and partly for clothing sup-
plied last year, bitt not charged, for the Militia and Turkish
Contingent, Me. teal Staff, and Colonial Corps.
Sir DE L. EV L&NS . called the right hon. gentleman's atten-
tion to the large, extra sum charged for boots and shoes,
Mr. MONSEIA said t , hat would probably arise from a sur-
plus stock of 200,000 pa irs being kept in hand. He could -not
quit this subject withou t noticing the attacks that had keen
made on the clothing del nertment. He must remind the house
that this department we s only formed on the 6th of June last,
so that many of the faul is charged to it took place before it
existed. The great diffie ulty, however, was to get goo 1 cloth,
and to do this every ex ertion had been used. From its very
recent formation, however, it could not be taken as a test of
experience, and he thou; ;Sit the house would do well to sus-
pend their judgment un :it they had seen more of it 4 opera-
tion. The next item was for provisions, showing an increase
of 3,413, 6281., caused by the increase of men and the increased
price of provisions. Extrs , charge for forage was 1,')V,418/.,
being reckoned for 60,01 )0 horses, at 3s. ld. per da7. For
bread, 347,871/4 for fuel and light, 78,0001.; to wh'ch was to
be added 25 per cent, for loss in transmission, and from other
causes. The next item we is the small-arms factory at Enfield,
for which the sum &Man led was 13,3781. The re :son for this
vote was owing to the p" attire, up of barrel macYnery, which
it was considered expel iont to establish. The next item was
an excess of 90,000/. fo: ,' gunpowder. There were 56,000 bar-
rels above 'the- supply of last, year. The next item was the
royal laboratory, in wl :. rich there was an excess of 240,5831.
over last year.. The ne. ' xt item, was a sum of 96,2.24'. for wag-
gous and harness fir tt :e Land Transport Corps, which it was
anticipa' od would save a large sum in the transport o' stores.
There had been lately established a gun foundry at Woolwich
for the casting of iro a guns. Hitherto it had been our cult m
to manufacture our ( ,s rabrass guns, but to obtain the iron guns
from contractors. 7 d is system had given rise to great dissetis
faction, and during ;' the past year a commission was issued,.
which had decided that a Government establishment ought
to be created forth a manufacture of such pieces as 68-pounders
and 13-inch morta rs. Although, under the old sygtem, they
had gone to the lx sst fact Ties, and given orders without any
ne•lue regard to e conomy, yet he was clearly satisfied, from
his own experien, ,e, that it was not safe to trust to the arti-
san, Time work r equired very peculiar artists, and from the
small demand for iron of such high quality, and intended for
special service, ' it was not easily obtained in the ordinary
establishments. ' He believed that, notwithstanding the ex
cellence ef our it on foundries, and though our brass ordnance
was of acknowl( dged excellence, our iron ordnance was far
inferior to that of the rest of Europe. He felt sure that the
house would n( ,t grudge the small sum of 60,0001. or 70,000/,
for so importa at an establishment. The next vote was cer-
tainly a large . ,)ue —nearly 2,041,900/. for works and bui d-
ings. Of this item there had been already expended the
sum of !,072,1 .64/. or about half the vote. Works now being
carried out iv onld cost 317,6701., and the further sum of

654,935/. was ; for works not yet sanctioned by Government.
In these sum! ; were included—for fortifications in Portsmouth
harbour, it. ; for the camp at Aldershott, 52,831/. ; for
the military hospital lately erected. in Southampton water,
60,000/. ;ar .d for barracks in Dublin, London, Chatham,
and elsewhei e, 100,0001. The committee were aware that a
committee o! 1, officers had been appointed last year by Lord
Panmure to i nquire into the improvement in barracks. That
committee h ed made an interesting report, and bad issued
public advertisements to all architects in thi country. In
consequence many plans had been sent in, and sonic has ac-
tually beeu ;elected, and the expense minutaly calculated of
carrying the: u out. Their plans included increased accom-
mocl;ttion for married soldiers, facilities for the amusement of
the men, bar ucks, hospitals, and other accommodation. The
expense of pr Evicting upon thin improved principle for 1,000
men was 80,0: v., or 86/. a man. He had some difficulty in
proving what e act , roposition to make to the house. It
would not do to bn.ld bar, asks partly on one system and
partly on anotl ter; and, on the other hand, they should re-
flect before the: ► altered the entire system. The Inspector-
General of Forti ' fleations had been called upon to make re-
turns showing is latnnrnber of barracks were wo th preserving,
how many do nc it come up to present requirements, what
would be the ex pense of bringing them up to those require.
meats, and what ~ would he the further expense of bringing
them up to the I ,i:gher requirements of the barrack comn'attee.
Till this report V (9,3' obtained, the house could not comet /a a con-
clusion upon ti. is important question, or come to a deter-
minate opinio; :as to what extent they should carry out

the recorumen. lation of the committee. The improvenments
introduced in to 'Woolwich Arsenal wore matters of c„n,,
gratulation to , the country. He wished that honourable
gentlemen would visit and judge for themselves. A deep
sense of grit; k side should be felt to the officers, and espe.
cially to Ca
,p lain Boxer. They had been the means of
saving larg b sit .us to tie country, and had put the fleet into.
a state of ,
/facie ncy which would never have been done with-
out their N rUluals le assistance. The next item was an increase
in the ed neotic .nal and scientific vote of 17,369/. On this
head he . evonht observe that a director of artil3ry studies had
been air z)ointe, 1, whose duty it was to overlook the artillery
practice ;of the , cadets. This office was filled by Colonel Wil-
ford, ,„i ho ha a 1 wen the means of turning out several excellent
you' igartill, ,ry aaars•
There was an increase in the academy
. e
at ' Woolwir ;h of 1,440/. ; a small increase in the military aca-
demy at E ,andbm st, owing to the increased price of provi-
sions' ; as id an ite:n for the school of musketry at Hythe.
There we ,s
an a ddition to rewards for distinguished services
of /7,0 f ;9/. and . some other items under the head of pensions
for woo ode and si ,perannuations, the last consequent on the
consolie lation of th e different offices of the War Department.
He h 4 i now gone th rough the subject. It was rather a du%
ficult f ask to follow out se many new arrangements, and if he
had n' )t made himself clear, he was willing to give any info,. _
math) •1 that might be required. _ _ .

On the first vote, 294,1744. for barracks, being put from
the c hair,
Jlonel DUNNE said that he certainly c9l.ila net Wider.