The Sun.
London, England, 1856-08-23 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 23, 1856.

NATIONAL REFOI:MATORY

BRISTOL, AUG. 22.

The proceedings of the conference of the friends and advo-
cates of this important national movement were brought
to a close last evening by a public meeting, which was hold
i❑ the Victoria-rooms, Clifton; Lord Stanley presiding.
Tho-e were assembled on the occasion many hundreds
of the ~tipperters of the reformatory system, the necessity
of establishing which on a broad legislative basis appears
at length to be very generally felt throughout the country.
Among those present were Lord R. Cecil, ALP., Sir J.
Pakington, M.P., Sir S. Northcote, M.P., Mr. Adderley,
M.P., the Mayor of Bristol, the High Sheriff of Somerset-
shire, Mr. Barwick Baker, Mr. S. Cane, Mr. W. Miles,
M.P., the Rev. Sydney Turner, the Rev. Canon Girdle-
stone, Mr. C. Ratcliffe, Mr. W. Gillen, Dr. English, &c.
Lord STANLEY, having taken the chair, said —Ladies and
Gentlemen,—We are met here for the purpose of discussing
the object, and, in so far as may lie within our power, of
promoting the cause of juvenile reformatories. Thera are
others present on this platform who may claim far more
than I can claim to have taken an early, an active, a prac-
tical, and a loading part in this movement. They will in
turn address you, and tell you what has been done; and as
it was my fortune yesterday, addressing a meeting, not in-
deed as numerous as that to which I have the honour to
address myself here, to dwell at some length and in full
detail on the past and present history of this cause, I shall
content myself now with only so brief a summary as it is
absolutely needful in order to lay before you the Kesent
position of this movement. In England and Wales there
were, by the last returns, yearly coming under the hands of
the law about 99,000 prisoners. Of those the number set
down as juvenile offenders—that is to say, as being under
17 years of age—was -about 11,400. You will not be far
wrong, taking it in round numbers, if you say that our
yearly return of criminals in England and Wales is 100,000,
and upon that number the juvenile offenders are 114 per
cent. Now, of that number it is shown in the same return

that about 4,000 are recommittals—that is to say, they are
known to have been in prison before. But, besides the
number so set down, it is a mat ter of every-day experience
that a very large number, changing their residence, as va-
grants and criminals do, from place to place, are officially
returned as being committed for the first time, whereas, in
point of fact, they have been before under the hands of
justice. Probably a large percentage, therefore, must be
added to the list of official recommittals. The number of
first offenders is therefore, in all probability, not more than

one-half of that yearly 11,500. I will not trouble you with
the data on which those calculations are founded, or go
through the arguments by which they aro proved. It is
enough to say that those whose accuracy may be relied upon,
and who have paid the greatest attention to the subject,

tell you that the number of juvenile offenders, exclusive
of trivial cases, where a reformatory is not necessary—
the number that you have yearly to deal with falls between

2,000 and 3,000. Now, under the law as it stands, the ut-
most period for which juvenile offenders may be committed
is five years; the majority, however, are not intended to
remain, and will not remain, in a reformatory school for
more than one-half to two-thirds of that period. You may
take three years as an average, and the calculation is, if
you intend this reformatory movement to be effectually
and properly carried out, that you will have sooner or
later to provide accommodation in these schools for about
10,000 children at one time. The great difficulty which
we have always met with in advocating this cause of re-
formation is the doubt which many persons entertain as to

the possibility of reclaiming one who is framed and trained
to criminal habits. I think our course has in some respects
suffered by the mixing up of two questions essentially and
in their natures distinct. There are persons, many of
them able men, all of them benevolent men—there are

many, both of the present and of the last generation,
in this and in other counties—who have devoted their
energies to the reformation of adult criminals sentenced to
periods of imprisonment. God forbid that I should lead
such benevolent persons to despond in their endeavours;
that is not my purpose ; but at the same time we say—and
❑one are more ready to admit it than those who themselves
have taken part in such efforts—that the difficulty of that
task is far greater than when you deal with the young; the
proportion of success is much smaller, the proportion of
failures is much greater. The difference between the two
cases is not merely one of degree ; they differ altogether in
their natures. The adult criminal—one who, after arriving

at man's estate, has habitually and successfully practised a
life of crime—can hardly do so in entire ignorance of the
moral character of his pursuits, or of the opinion which
-society hai formed of him. Of course ignorance and bad
training are some excuse for him, but he must bo to a cer-
tain extent criminal in intention as well as in act. But
our case is that among juvenile offenders thorn are many--
in all probability a large majority of the numbJr —who
though criminal, deeply criminal in act, can hardly be said
to be so in intention. (Cheers.) Various t ibles have been

prepared with reference to this subject, differing a little

from one another, but showing nearly similar results. In
one else it was shown that, of DO criminals, 75 per cant.,
three-fourths of the whole, had been either diractly led

into crime, or so neglected as that others had an opportu-
nity of leading them into clime, by their parents. An-
other similar calculation, made in Manchester some years
ago, gave nine in ten of the criminals whose cases wore in-
vestigated as the children of dishonest, criminal, or profli-
gate parents, and only 10 per cont., or oue in ten of the
number, as the children of honest parents. All those figures
and many more coinputatiuns of the same character agree
in this—that in crime, as in the analogous case of pauper-
ism, there is a very strong tendency to become hereditary ;
and the inference we draw from that is, that there is a
large propartion of the whole number of juvenile crimi-
nals who are so from circumstances and not from choice,
whose organisation, whose character does not more incline
them to dishonesty than does that of others who have
never come under the sentence of the law, but who, from

the accident of their social position, have never had the
chance given them, from the time of their birth, of obtain-
ing their livelihood by honest means. They are known,
they are marked in the places where they reside; honest
children will not associate with them, respectable em-
ployers will nothave anything to say to them, for another
boy to be seen with them is a stigma—a mark of not being
respectable. That is their position ; they grow up thieves,
not because they want to be thieves, but because they have
literally no option offered to them. Now, you see at once,
if we can makeout that case--and we believe there is a mast
of evidence to substantiate it —there is no reason to despair
of the reformation of those who are brought within our
reach under those circumstances. We do not want to over-
state our case; it is not fair, and it never answers to do
so. We quite agree that among the entire number there may
be some who are wholly, or very nearly so, incorrigible.

We quite admit the existence of such cases. All we say
is, that they are the minority, and the curable cases are
the majority; and even as regards those who are themselves
incorrigible, we conceive that a certain advantage is gained
in placing them where they have not an opportunity of cor
rupting others. I may repeat, iu passing, an instance, to
which I alluded yesterday, of a lad, an inmate of a refor-
matory, who had trained, formed, educated to thieving
eight other lads, all of whom were expert thieves ; so that
even in the case of the incorrigible there is something
gained when you can isolate them so that less criminal
youths cannot come within their influence. Criminality
does not, as we believe, follow the ordinary law of supply
and demand ; it does not at all follow that, because you
have a certain amount of property, and only a certain num-
ber of police to guard it, you will always have a certain and
fixed amount of crime. We believe—and the experience of
at least one town where a reformatory has been for some
time in active operation confirms our opinion—that when
you have once succeeded in clearing the streets, as it were,
of these regular, trained, educated criminals, you willlfind
that the cases of crime with which you will have to deal in
future will be fewer in number and less difficult to deal
with in point of quality. Now what has been the actual
success obtained in reformatory institutions in our own
and other countries? Mettray, the great reformatory of
France, has recovered 89 per cent., and of the 11. per cent.
who relapsed a certain proportion were again in the way
of recovery. There are many cases where relapses are only
temporary, and the percentage they bear upon the whole
number of boys should not therefore be a subject of alarm
or discouraglement to the promoters of the movement. You
aro probably aware of the extent to which the Legislature
has taken up this movement. The law gives power to the
magistrates to send boys, not exceeding 16 years of age, to
reformatories for a period not exceeding five years. The
State grants ss. weekly-131. 10s. a-year for their sup-
port. It endeavours to recover that from the parents,
and by the minute of last June large and liberal assistance
is afforded in other shapes to those who desire to set up
and carry on reformatory schools. The object of the Na-
tional Reformatory Society is to render the law practically
available. We want to put its provisions in force, we want
to assist in the establishment of new reformatory schools
where they are needed ; we want to give facilities for com-
paring the various methods in use at the different schools ;
we want to furnish opportunities for the discussion of the
general subject; we want, if changes in the law should be
required, to discuss those changes ; and, which is most im-
portant of all, we wish to furnish to those inmates of re-
formatory schools who in course of time will leave them a
fair opportunity of getting a start in life and of obtaining
respectable employment. (Loud cheers.) We have some-
times been asked to include within the scope of our ope-
rations the other subject of adult reform. That, I confess,
I should be unwilling to do. I attach great importance to
keeping the two distinct. I think, if we were to go be-
yond that line of operations which we have immediately
traced out for ourselves we should run some risk of di-
minishing our own utility by attempting too much,
and by combining the more hopeful with the less

ful cases, might, I will not say incur the prejudice, bui
to some extent might be held accountable for failures,
which in the other enterprise are inevitable. (Cheers.)
There may bo a future field of operations open to us in
connection with that wile question of industrial schools for
vagrant children. It is a question at present rather for
the Legislature than for society ; therefore we would gladly
receive information and accept discussion upon it ; we at
present, so far as practical action is concerned, confine our-
elves rather to cases of schools, reformatory in their clel -
rector, provided for criminal children. In discussing this
subject there are three general heads under which the
whole inquiry falls. First, on what conditions and in
what manner are children to be admitted to reformatory
schools ? Secondly, on what plinciples are those schools to
bo conducted? Thirdly, when the boys come to leave the
schools, what is to become of them ? As to the first ques-
tion, we have had here and elsewhere very animated and
important debates upon the question of previous impri-
sonment. By the law as it stands it is necessary that a
boy should have been convicted before he enters a refor-
matory school—should have gone through a short term
of imprisonment. There are some of our friends who think
that should not be made compulsory upon magistrates, but
that it should be left optional with them. There are
others who think that in every case a boy should be sent at
once to a reformatory. On the one hand, it is contended
that there is danger, in sending a boy to gaol, of affecting
his mind with the idea that he has received his allotted
punishment for his offence, and is therefore entitled to his
liberty ; that the superadded detention in a reformatory is
looked upon as so great a hardship that it materially in-
terferes with the success of the system. On the other hand
it is urged that a short period of separate confinement
gives the boy time for reflection? and that„he comes again
into the society of other boyf,-Am-though that society
be accompanied with hard fare and hard labour, with a
feeling of pleasure rather than of pain. If I were to ex-
press any opinion of my own upon the subject, which I
would do with great deference, I should be inclined to
steer a middle course,—to apply the previous imprison-
ment in some cases, but to leave it as an optional matter
with the magistrates, instead of, as at present, making it
compulsory on them to commit to prison. The next branch
of the subject relates to the actual management of these
schools. Boys are detained for periods varying from two to
five years. They are taught habits of hard work and indus-
trial occupation ; in some cases being made to learn a trade;
in other cases, as in the Ship Reformatory at Liverpool,
they are prepared for service at sea. It is held—l think
rightly—as an essential point that he is to be lodged and
treated generally in the simplest and plainest manner, so
that no honest parent need have any cause to envy, on be-
half of his own children's condition, the oondition of the
convicted child. That is a point on which we lay great
stress. (Cheers.) Another fundamental rule is, that where
you have a largo number of boys the " family system"
should be adopted, the system of associating together not
more than 40—probably not so many—boys in one house
under one teacher, so that the personal character and
personal influence of the superintendent may have
their effect, and his personal supervision exercised
over all. Another important rule is the obtaining from
parents, wherever it is possible, either the whole or part of
thesum which Government pays for the maintenance of
the child. This system puts a check on parents who, anxi-
ous to get rid of the responsibility of maintaining their
children, put them in the way of being committed and
sent to these schools. Another question, on which to some
extent there is a difference of opinion, relates to the cha-
racter of the instruction to be given. I, for the most part,
hold most strongly, and shall always express my opinion
most openly, that the training ought to be of the plainest
and simplest character. The objectyou have in view is not
an intellectual object—it is a moral object. Ido not hesi-
tate to say that, on the whole, it would be a disadvantage
rather than a benefit if any large number of those who had
been trained in reformatories were to rise far above their
class and become eminent members of society. One would

not regret it on account of the boys themselves, but for the
danger of exciting in the minds of honest parents a degree
of envy as to the fate of their own offspring. (Cheers.) The
last point on which I would touch is the very important
question—What is to become of the children on their dis-
missal ? There are various methods in which their services
may be made available. There is the field of ordinary agri-
cultural occupation at home ; there are the colonies ; there
is the chance of admission into the army and navy ; and
there is the merchaet service at sea. Now, what I say of
one of those outlets applies equally to all—that you mast
take great care not to introduce to them these criminal
elements in such proportions that the influx shall be
noticed and made a subject of comment. The groat rule
you must adopt is to scatter these children abroad as
much as possible. But if it were made a practice—in the
army or navy, for instance—that such a percentage should
be composed of these criminals, there would be a feeling
that the profession was lowered in the public estimation,
and would seriously affect the chance of enlistment from
among other classes. We all know what has been the
feeling in several of the colonies on the subject of
transportation to their shores; it has been overdone, and
there is now so strong a feeling against it that to a great
extent we are debarred from availing ourselves of the sys-
tem of outlet. A. valuable suggestion was made to-day that
in every leading colony, where friends to this cause may be
found, agencies should be established. I think the plan is
practicable, but I repeat that great caution must be exer-
cised. (Cheers.) What has been accomplished as yet
with regard to this reformatory movement ? I am sorry
to say, if you look to actual results, not much as yet. I
am afraid there is a little misapprehension on this point.
I believe the actual state of the case to be this—that the
number of boys in the reformatory does not exceed 600 or
700; the number of girls 101; but though the results ac-
tually accomplished are small, there is a great deal doing;
all the counties, or nearly all, are exerting themselves,
well-informed teachers are called for in all directions,
and it is with a view to increasing the progress of the
movement that these meetings are held and that this
society exists. (Cheers.) I must just add a word with
reference to another institution similar in kind to ours,
which calls itself the Reformatory and Refuge Union.
The difference between that society and ours is as to its
mode of operation. It is established on a basis somewhat
more sectarian than ours. Our principle is unsectarian.
We exclude no one on account of diversity of theological
opinion ; but, feeling as I do that our real danger in this
causes arises from apathy, from indifference, and from
neglect, I for one shall quarrel with no display of sectarian
zeal out of this society, which may have the effect of ad-
vancing the cause. (Chews.) The two societies work in
friendship, differing only in their methods of doing the
work. I will just mention before I sit down a trivial acci-
dent which occurred yesterday, and which I regret. An
official document was read at the meeting yesterday, con-
taining some remarks with reference tothe difference of opi-
nion between the two societies. That document was printed
by mistake from a rough draught, and nct from the copy
which was ultimately approved and adopted. It contains
some expressions relating to that institution which do not
at ail convey our feelings on the subject. The two societies
work distinctly, because they think by so doing they can do
more, and I should very much regret that it should be in-
ferred that there is any hostility between us. As to the
assistance you can give to this movement, of course pecu-
niary aid is important ; but there is another support you
can afford, namely, in the provision for those boys who
will shortly be leaving the Reformatory. The difficulty of
disposing of them does not press upon us, but we ought to
take early precaution to provide for the necessity when it
arises, and I would suggest that the best and most practical
service which any one can render us is to express a wil-
lingness—which they can do by addressing the secretary—
to provide employment for at least one of the boys who
will be leaving our schools. I have laid before you an out-
line of the subject we have at heart, and I shall now listen
with pleasure to those who have to bring before you the
results of a much earlier and much mere practical experi-
ence in connection with the movement than mine has been.
(The noble lord resumed his seat amid loud cheers.)
Lord R. CECIL rose to move the first resolution, and
observed that he had neither an earlier, a more active, nor
a more practical connection with this movement than their
noble chairman ; but he felt earnestly upon it, and was
anxious to do what he could to forward it. (Cheers.) It
was not until last year that any scheme was formed for
uniting the efforts of all in one common cause and bringing
them into one cousmon centre. He could not, in justice
to the history of their cause, pass by a fact to which the
noble lord had alluded, and which might at first sight ap-
pear painful, but which was a matter for congratulation
and encouragement. At the time of the formation of this
society there was another society in London having a simi-
lar object, and it was, in the first instance, considered a
mere waste of force that two societies should exist. It was,
therefore, endeavoured to form a union between them, but
that was soon found to be impracticable, in consequence of
the society in London having resolved to confine their
efforts to a single class of the Christian community.
Highly respecting their motives, and wishing well to the
cause they had undertaken, w ill it was felt that this so
ciety would be abandoning the object it had in view if it
were to adopt the principle of exclusion which had been
sanctioned by the London society. He was very anxious
not to be misunderstood on this point, or that it should
be thought that this society was insensible to the all-im-
portant necessity of religion. Religion must be the teacher's
motive for his self-denying life ; religion must be the in-
spiring genius and spirit of his teaching; religion must in
reality be the sole cause of the pupil's cure. Without it
the best machinery and the best organised staff would in-
evitably fail ; with it, an ill-organised staff and an inferior
intellect might often succeed ; neither was ho willing to ac
cept the imputation that they regarded with less earnest-
ness than those who took another course in this matter—
the principles of their own faith. They were as deeply
attached to all the points of their belief as those wlic
adopted a different principle for their guidance. But tht
desire of the society was that the sad rending of Christen
dom should not add this to all its other evil deeds—that it
should not prevent them rescuing from a life of misery
here, and a life of woo hereafter, the heathen whom they

were rearing up in the streets. He did not think, there•
fore, that in adopting the course the society had done
they were showing any lack of regard for religion, or that
they were traitors to the cause they served. (Cheese.)
Their noble chairman had observed that the two societies
were not rivals, but rather colleagues in the same cause.
The two societies moved in different paths and had diffe-
rent spheres of action. The Refuge Union had been
mainly supported by private charity without any aid from
Government to succour the outcast boys in rho streets y it
had less connection with reformatory institutions than this
society, and its sphere of action uses mainly in London,
where those whom it sought to succour were exposed to
many dangers from which the more rural retreats were
free. It had so happened that most of these friends of the
reformatory system who wore members of Parliament be-
longed to their society, and consequently one great task—
and one which would form the main part of their efforts—
would be to press upon the Legislature, at all needful con-
junctures, those changes and improvements that were ne-
cessary. It must never be thought that they had got all
from the Legislature which they required. There were
many questions of vital importance which the society
would be called upon to discuss and which the Legislature
would have to entertain, and in the debates on which they
would be glad to receive information from those qualified
to give it. There was the question of preliminary punish-
ment, the question of apprenticeship, the question of edu-
cation, and the question connected with the furnishing an
outfit for those who had passed their time in reformatory,
schools ; and, above all, the question of admitting to re-
formatory schools those who had not been convicted of
crime, but who were found vagrants in the streets. These
wore questions which mud ;before long attract the atten-
tion of, and seek solution from, the Legislature. The last
question was ono of an importance which could not be
overrated. At present the magistrates had no power to
seize children who had not committed any crime. But it
should be remembered that many of those children who
had not yet been convicted of crime were almost certain
of being led to the commission of it, in the case of those
parents who had by their neglect nearly sacritioad all their
parental right over them; and he thought the society would
be doing much towards diminishing juvenile crime if tkey
were to clear the streets of the great towns of those who
were its main feeders. There was another subject men-
tioned in the sections, in which, as far as that union was
especially concerned, they might well be proud. They
might well he proud to have among their number a lady
whom he might call the Female Reformer in this matter—
Miss Carpenter. He thought it would become the duty of
that society to aid in the solution of the greatest problem
in the reformatory cause. They had been very anxious
about the reformation of boys; but they ought to be ten-
fold as anxious about the reformation of girls. Little at-

tention had been given to it, but it was important, because
it wont directly to the root of the whole of their educational
.ystem. Many saw in it the key to the great educational
problem itself. Enormous sums of money had been spent to
support the system, but what they imparted was not edu-
cation—it was only instruction. What else could they
give by teaching in schools ? They never could give that
constant, that never•seasing, that never-resting influence
which nothing but a virtuous home could furnish. The
mother made the home. A virtuous mother reared the vir-
tuous citizen or the virtuous housewife; while a vicious

mother made the profligate boy or the abandoned girl.
Therefore it was that in the reformatory schools lay the
main secret of the future reformation of the criminal popu-

lation of this country. As much more important as was
the reformation of boys than the reformation of adults, so
much more important was the reformation of girls than the
reformation of boys. There was an agency as active and
constant in its operation in this country as theirs, but
directed to an entirely contrary object. While there were
reformatory institutions throughout the country, so there
were also regularly organised systems and institutions on
the part of thieves to train up children in their cause.
He could not believe that this matter could for any
lengthened period escape the attention of Parliament.
(Cheers.) Ho had dwelt thus long on what ho deemed to
be the duties and objects incumbent on the Reformatory
Union, because he was anxious to speak emphatically on
one object which he thought the union ought not to under-
take. Many efforts had been made to induce them to join
in the cause of adult reformation. If they did it would be
the ruin of their own cause, and for this reason—the
whole question of secondary punishment must soon be
opened. There were those who considered that crime was
little more than a disease—not deserving of punishment,
but that the person required to be cured ; so that the re-
formatory schools in their view were but so many moral
hospitals. There were two strong instincts iu man's na-
ture against this reasoning. Punishment was considered
to be retributive, and was felt to bo sanctioned by a higher
Power, who Himself punished evil and awarded good ;
and, whether by reasoning or unreasoning, he believed
there was scarcely a feeling more deeply rooted than this
in the hearts of the English people. (Cheers.) But among
the more educated and more practical and active portion
of the people, and especially among the governing classes
of this country, there was another strong feeling which
the prison philosophers were opposing. It had hitherto
been the opinion of the world that you kept men from
crime by deterring them. That feeling still prevailed, and
it was a hopeless circumstance to see efforts wade, and to
a great extent successfully made, not only to mitigate the
effect of punishment, but to cause a strong reaction upon
crime. But when this question of secondary punishment
should be reopened, there would, ho hoped, be a strong
opposition against this, philosophical it might be, but cer-
tainly mistaken, opinion of certain able and no doubt
amiable people. (Cheers.) The soziety had difficulties of
their own to overcome, and prejudices of their own to
work against; and they would commit a great mistake,
and perhaps ruin that which they felt they could effect, if
tkey were to attempt to do that which it was impossible
for them to accompligh. (Cheers.) The noble lord then
moved the following resolution :
" That this meeting strongly approves the object of the
National Reformatory Union."
Sir J. PAKINGTON seconded the resolution. He oongra-

tulated the society on the rapid progress which their cause
had made. He thought this question of endeavouring to
reclaim the youthful criminals of England might be spoken
of as a novel question. It dated mainly from two confer-
ences which were held at Birmingham in the years 1851
and 1853. It was his good fortune to take part in those
conferences, and by the exertions made on thew occasions
public opinion had been aroused, and the subject had at
length attained its present favourable aspect and position
in the country. Their noble chairman had reminded them
of the Philanthropic Society, the society in Warwickshire,
and also the institution of Government at Parkhurst. Those
wers isolated attempts. Crime was accumulating. The
youth of the country were swelling the amount of that
orime; and he might safely say that, until those conferences
at Birmingham, neither the opinion of the public had ever
been heard, nor the attention of the Legislature had ever
been excited to the magnitude of the question. But they
now stood in a very different position. The time had come
when public opinion was decided upon the point, and when
there was something like a national feeling aroused upon
the subject. They ought, therefore, at once strike at the
root of crime by cutting of its supply. %
Miss Carpenter had
told them of an instance of a child 8 years of age who was
tried for housebreaking. He could mention an instance
that came under his own observation in 1854, immediately
after the first act of Parliament was passed. At the Wor-
cester quarter sessions, of which he was chairman, a little
urchin was placed at the bar, which he could scarcely look
over, and pleaded " guilty" to horse stealing. The little
fellow hardly knew whether to laugh or cry. He (Sir J.
Pakiugton) availed himself of the act of Parliament and
sent him for one year to prison, and then sentenced him to
5 years' detention at the reformatory at Redhill, in Surrey.
But what was his dismay when he found that, under the
cumbrous machinery of that act, he could not send the
child to an uncertified reformatory ; and the reformatory
at Redhill not happening to be certified, his punishir eat
ended with the 12 months' imprisonment. Since then the
boy had been in Worcester gaol again, and it might there-
fore be fairly said that the child's ruin might be traced to
a blot in the act of Parliament which had since been cor-
rected by the exertions of Sir S. Northoote. Such facts
had hs►l their effect upon the public mind. What wore
the points urged at the conferences ? First, the establish-
ment of reformatory schools ; next, legislative assistance ;
and lastly, that the Committee of Council on Education
should aid with grants those schools. Every one of those
objects were now accomplished ; the first, no doubt, very
imperfectly, but there were reformatory schools to a great
extent, and he trusted before long they would be spread all
over the land. Parliament had enabled them to deal in a
more rational manner with these unfortunate objects
rather of compassion than of censure, and lately a minute
had been passed by the Committee of Council by which a
most liberal assistance had been afforded to the voluntary
efforts to advance this great cause. (Cheers.) Although
it was said that the reformatory system was on its trial,
he thought he might say that it had manifestly succeeded.
They had been told that both in this country and on the
continent the system had been successful, and that they
had redeemed from vicious courses and converted into use-
ful members of society two•thirds of the whole of the juve-
nile criminals confided to them. But this great achieve-
ment was not confined to Europe, for in the United States
the success of the system had been most signal. (Cheers )
In 1849 4,397 boys and girls were received into the New
York Refuge, two-thirds of whom have been saved from
ruin and reformed. At Philadelphia 2,250 were received
in the same year into the House of Refuge, of whom the
same favourable report was given. Thus they had demon-
strated that both in Europe and America the result of this
great movement was successful, and it only now remained
for that union to push it further and to effect a still greater
amount of good. He had heard something about alarm
at the magnitude of the task. He could not help thinking
that the British people and the Legislature, instead of being
alarmed by its magnitude, would be rather stimulated to
greater exertions. Miss Carpenter had suggested that it
should be made compulsory to send to a reformatory all
those who were committed on a second conviction—a most
excellent suggestion, provided it was practicable. Although
accommodation would be required for 8,000 children, yet
they must not shrink from the task. If the work was to
be carried out at all it must be done with energy and per-
severance, and by all the appliances which a liberal empire
and Legislature could bring to bear upon it. (Cheers.)
The future relations between these reformatory institutions
and the State was a subject that could not be evaded. He
had heard some express a wish to repudiate the State
altogether. The question would arise, were these institu-
tions to be private schools or public institutions? He
would not shut out voluntary exertion or voluntary ma-
nagement ; but while he considered that the management
of the gaols, the administration of the laws, and the sys-
tem of public education, as far as it wont, was managed
by local efforts, guided and aided by State counsel and
State assistance, it was his opinion that in the future
operations of these reformatory schools they must act upon
the same principle. He believed their object was one too
mat to be attained by voluntary efforts only, and, since
the State already made public grants to these schools, the
State had not only the right, but it was its bounden duty
personally to interfere with their management. (Cheers.)
In conclusion, he hoped that the great assembly in that
important town on this subject might be productive of all
the benefits they might possibly anticipate, and that iu
the result they might find this great cause as triumphant
as its best friends could desire. (Loud cheers.)
The re solution was carried by acclamation.
Sir S. NORTHCOTB moved the second resolution, and
said that, in spite of all they had done during the last few
lays, and notwithstanding the exhaustive and elaborate
Speeches of their noble chairman, he felt that this was a
subject so enormous and so growing upon them that it could
be said only to have been half kdiecusaed. lie begged