The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-30 00:00:00

agreed to that resolution, it would be justly said that a
House of Commons consisting of 300 Members and odd,
had voted for the repeal of part of the burdens
of the country, and that that vote bad been brought
before them the second time for the purpose of re-
vision, the necessary and inevitable consequence of
that revision would be that the people would say, a House
of Commons consisting of not more than forty Members
could agree to votes to burthen the people without having
those votes revised ; hut whether a House of Commons,
consisting of 300 Members, had voted for the relief of the
burthens of the people, that vote must be subjected to re.
vision.—(Hear.) It would have a tendency to bring the
House of Commons into disrepute with the people.
In conclusion, the Hon. Member most solemnly invoked
the House to pause well before it came to any decision--
to consider well what would be the undoubted an.l inevits
able consequence of overturning the vote of F iday night.
Sir J.WROTTESLEY declared that he was very atten-
tive to what fell from his Noble Friend; he was close beside
him at the time, and understood his explanation to be
precisely in the terms now stitesi by him to the House.—
(Heir, bear.) He believed the mistake must have arisen
in consequence of a misapprehension by Hen. Gentlemen
of the manner in which the question was pur.—(Hear,
hear.) That the words now reed be added to the motion,
was an entirely separate question. And it was on the
putting of these that his Noble Friend addressed
the House.—(He.ee, hear, hear.) He was himself much
surprised at tl:ie interpretation given to his Noble Friend's
explanation by a certain channel of information, which he
tea.. nn She following morning.—( Hear.) He did not
thiriss that because 162 Members of that House had come
*eo a certain resolution, that the remainder of the 680 were
not to be permitted to have an opinion.—( Hear, hear,
bear.) There were many opportunities in which that opi.
nion might be expressed ; and he did not consider that
he was, himself, compromised in a future discussion, by
the vote be hail eiven on Friday last.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. ATTWOOD said, after the vote was de-
cided, the words which fell upon his ear from the
lips of the Noble Lord were these :—" That the vote
had placed the Government in a state of considerable
embarrassment ; but, after the vote to which the house
had come, he could not think of offering any opposi-
tion to the carrying of it into effect."—(Cries of
" N.., no.") He was ready to accept the explanation of
the Noble Lord, but he was sure these were the words.—
(Oh. oh.) He would make only one other observation,
hich was, that he trusted the Ministry had well con-
sidered the consequences of the proceeding of which they
had given notice. Other motions for rescindine the de-
cisions of the House would be made. He, for one, was
disposed, if such a principle was adopted, to move that
the resolutions come to upon his motion a few evenings
B;6n, be rescinded, and he called upon the Government to
panse before they opened so wide a door. He was quite
satisfied that the proceeding, if adopted, would lead to
great changes in the conduct of the House, and he dreaded
the manner in which it was likely to be received by the
country at large. He would again call on the Ministry to
consider of the consequences of their intentions, if car-
ried into effect—to consider it further and well, before
forcing it upon the attention of the House.
After a few observations from Mr. BENETT, which
were inaudible in the Gallery,
Mr. HALL DARE said he had not had the good
fortune to be present on Friday night, but he concurred
with the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, that
after the decision on that night, notwithstanding
the explanation of the Noble Lord as to his mean-
ing on that particular question, it would be a had
precedent if an attempt were made to rescind a
vote to which the House had deliberately come.—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord had called upon the House to
look with their eyes open on the event of that vote being
confirmed by the House. As an independent Member of
the House, he was prepared to look at the subject with
his eyes open. He was prepared to vote a property tax—
and to consider the existing taxation of the country ; for he
believed that a property tax was the most equitable, and
that it was fitting that those having property to protect
should contribute the mote to the exigencies of the
State.—(Heare hear.) He agreed with the Hon. Member
for Lambeth that, if the malt tax were reduced, it was no
reason that the revenue should be so much diminished.—
(Hear, hear.) It was also necessary that the revenue
should be maintained that faith should be kept
with the public creditor, and that the establishments of
the country should also be maintained. Looking, how-
ever, at our foreign policy—at the state of our foreign
relations—at the state of the east of Europe—at our West
India colonies—and at the unfortunate state of Ireland—
(Cries of " Oh, oh," " Question ")—looking at all
those interests, he thought the Noble Lord could not
dispense with the present amount of taxation.—
(Cries of " Question.") He was perfectly ready to vote
for a property tax as a substitute for the malt tax. As to the
malt tax, he should Ulm had been present, have voted for the
motion of the Hon. Bart. (Sir W. Ingilby) but be should
have done so with regret, for he only considered it a half
measure. He, for one, should be perfectly prepared to vote
for the alternative suggestion of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.)
Mr. BARING, as far as he was concerned, would not
give encouragement to further discussion on the malt tax.
But having been one of those who thought it fit to vote in
favour of the reduction of the malt duty, he thought it pro-
per to say, that the declaration of the Noble Lord, as it struck
him, might have been taken by Hon. Gentlemen either to
mean one thing or the other.--(Laughter.) He meant
that the Noble Lord, when he declared he should abide by
the resolution meant that he either would not negative it
on the second resolution being put from the chair, or that
Government would abide by it. The declaration might with-
out stretch, have been interpreted either way. But no gen-
tleman could suppose that the Noble Lord meant, without
consultation of his colleague:, to hind Government as to the
course they would take on so important a question.—
( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had given his notice
for to-morrow, and the thing he proposed was,
would they have the relief of the malt tax, and
the house and window tax, and were they prepared to
take in substitution of them, a tax on property and income;
trot a tax on property or income, but a tax on property and
income. Undoubtedly that was a question most important
for the country to consider, and if he had any objection to
it, it was the short notice that had been given. He
was perfectly aware that the case might be considered one
of pressure, and especially .s the worthy Alderman's motion
stood for to-morrow. But the qui stion had never been
fairly put to the House, and most unfeignedly he could not
see how it could properly be discussed. Wi.h great re-
luctance, should be be broueht, within 244• hours notice, to
determine a question of such conclusive importance to the
future happiness and prosp.-rity of the country. He was
bound to say, he never saw much wisdom in a
commutation of tithes. He thought that altogether visionary
and replete with danesr, mischief and less, especially
where teere were great, multifarious, and complicated
nterests to be taken into consideration. He complained
then, that within 24 hems' notice, the House was to
be brought to a division on this mist important subject.
In fact he thought the reduction of the Malt Tire, for
which be voted on Friday, might have been afforded
without bringing on the necessity of a general
commutation; but even allowing that it were
put to him distinctly, would be have the malt duty re•
duced and a property tax imposed, or the malt duty
be left alone, he should certainly say, leave the
malt duty alone—(Hear, bear)—and spare him the
property tax.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Sir H. PEEL said he should fo low the example
of his Honourable Ft iend and postpone giving
any detailed opinion upon the great question
which was to come on for discussion to-morrow night, till
the proper aline arrived. He would observe, however, with
respect to the event which had trought on this conversaton
that if he Lad been present on Friday night, which acci.
dent prevented him being, be should have given his de.
Cided opposition to the proposal of reducing the malt tax.
He would have done that, not because he did not entertain
a sincere desire to see that tax abated, if possible, but
because he should have looked forward to the
consequences of that abatement—he should have looked
forward to its bearing on the question of commu-
tation—to its bearing on tl.e question of the corn
laws—(Hear, hear)—to its bearing on the. question
of a substitution of a property tax. The substitution of
a property tax would lead to a comple revolution in the
Whole of our financial system—(Hear)—and he would
nut consent to inflict an injury upon the public creditor
by the repeal of any tax till he felt assured of obtaining
a substitute.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He must say,
that he certainly did entertain serious doubts of the
success of any attempt to establish a property and
income tax in lieu of any other taxes whatever.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that vir-
tually to rescind a vote of the House come to one
night on another was a course free front evil, but it would
be a far greater evil to maintain the doctrine that questions
of such immense impOrtance could be finally determined
by a House, cousiating of only half the number of
the whole House.--(Ci les of Hear, hear, hear.) what
were all their regulations for respecting the diff,-rent
paSs through if it were
stages measures must
D it to guard against something else than surprise? He was
bound to say there had been no surprise on this
occasion, and that Honourable Members oneht to
have been present to discharge their duty, but
their
regulations were not only intended to guard agetn•t sur-
prise, but against the effect of sudden inapuls,e, W.. hat

_.

ji>'