The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-12 00:00:00

THE WENSLEYDALE PEERAGE.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, seeing his noble
friend (Lord Lyndhurst) in his place, he begged to ask
him what course he intended to pursue to-morrow, as
the committee of privileges was to inert that day at two
o'clock. He thought it ought to be known what course
was to he adopted when the committee met.
Lord LYNDHURST said that when the committee
met he would state the course he intended to pursue, and
he had no doubt the noble earl (Granville) opposite
would also have a course to propose, and that other
noble lords would likewise offer suggestions. The
course he proposed to adopt was teis,—that e hen all
these suggestions were before the Committee of Privi-
leges, to leave that committee to adopt the course they
thought best.
A conversation here took place, in which the Earl of
Derby, Lord Brougham, and Lord Campbell took
part, and the matter then dropped.
DIPLOMATIC DESPATCHES.
Earl GREY rose to ask the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs the question of which he had given
notice, namely, whether he could give any explanation
of the apparent contradiction between Colonel Rose's
despatch of the '2sth of March, 1853, and that
of Lord Stratford de Redeliffe of the 27th of
May following ; the first of these despatches
contained a memorandum of Mr. Pisani of the
account given to him by Rifaat Pacha and the Grand
Vizier of the substance of the note verbale presented by
Prince Menschikoff to the Porte on the 16th of March,
while Lord Stratford de Redcliffe states in hie despatch
of the 27th of May that Mr. Pisani had assured him
that Rifaat Pacha would never be brought to admit the
existence of his note. 'Your lordships will, lam satis-
fied, always concur with me in considering that it is a
matter of the greatest importance that the accuracy of
information transmitted to her Majesty's Government
by the diplomatic agents of the Crown, and especially of
information which is to be laid before Parliament, in
order to jiistify the policy of the Government, should be
unimpeachable. If, therefore, Circumstances should
ever arise of a nature to throw doubt upon that accu-
racy, and those circumstances remain unexplained, the
consequence must be that suspicions will be entertained
as to the trustworthiness of the diplomatic servants of
the Crown, of whatever rank they may be. I say,
therefore, that if such circumstances should arise, it is
the duty of a member of either House of Parliament to
ask for some explanation with regard to them. This
being so, I feel bound to ask for some explanation with
regard to circumstances to which I have already on a
previous occasion called your lordships' attention. Last
year, in discussing the policy of the war, I endeavoured
to show that there existed no ground whatever for an
allegation which had been made that Prince Menschi-
koff, the Russian ambassador, had used threats in order
to inclace the Turkish Minister to conceal from the
British Government the real nature of the Russian de-
mands. I at that time argued that the Turkish Ministry
desired for their own purposes to create that impres-
sion, and had made a dupe of Colonel Rose in the
first instance, and afterwards of Lord Stratford de
Redcliffe, and that they had been induced to transmit
to her Majesty's Government an erroneous intima-
tion, which produced at the time a most unfortunate
effect upon the minds of the Government and of
rtbecealpietooplyeoeufrthreisco one o wishr two now, my
country. I nsis, my lords, to
the grounds
upon which I relied in support of that opinion, In the
month of March, 1853, Prince Menschikoff presented
llection
an important paper to the Turkish Government, and in
the same mouth Colonel Rose transmitted to the British
Government a despatch enclosing a memorandum bear-
ing the signature of Mr. Pisani, and stating that its
purport was founded upon what had been told to him by
the Grand Vizier. Colonel Rose said :
" Your lordship will see that, in spite of Prince lien-
schilsoff's denunciations against the Turkish authorities
should they reveal his secret demands, they, in considera-
tion of the danger which would ensue from a compliance
with them, determined to make them known to her Ma-
jesty's Government."
Shortly afterwards Lord Stratford de Redcliffe addressed
a despatch to the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, of which
3, short but important extract appears in the papers
which have been laid on your lordships' table. Lord
Stratfcrd de Redcliffe said :
"I think it my duty to record that the note verbal; pre-
sented to the Porte by Prince Menschikoff on the 4th (16th)
of March, and enclosed with Count Nesselrode'e despatch
to &Pa DEWW Oa the 9th prat) ulti to 3 vii zwor

municated to this embassy. I questioned Mr. Pisani
on the subject, and he assures me that Rifaat Pasha would
never be brought to admit its existence. That Minister
was probably restrained from disclosing it by the Russian
ambassador's threatening language."
Your lordships will observe that on the 21st of March
Mr. Pisani signs a memorandum, containing a full re-
port of the contents of the 'note presented by Prince
Menschikoff, as ascertained in a conversation with the
Turkish Minister, and two months afterwards he as-
sures Lord Stratford de Redcliffe that the Turkish
Ministry could never be brought to admit the existence
of that note. This, my lords, as I stated last year, is a
matter affecting the character of members of the British
legation, and I think that blame is attributable to a
higher quarter than Mr. Pisani. Lord Stratford de Red-

cliffe was not justified in transmitting to the English
Government statements reflecting upon the conduct of a
Power with which we were at that time on terms of

amity without ascertaining their correctness. It wal his
duty, when he returned to Constantinople in the then
critical state of affairs, when the awful issue of peace or
of war was trembling in the balance, to make himself
accurately acquainted with the steps which had been
taken by C donel Rose in his absence'; and if he had ne-
glected that part of his duty, be had still no right to
transmit an assertion to the British Government that

the Turkish Government had concealed an important
State paper unless be was convinced of the correctness
of the statement ; still less bad he the right to ground
upon tint assertion the inference that they had been
threatened by the Russian Minister. I say, my lords,
that he had no right to adopt that course, when five
minutes' search in the archives of his embassy would
have afforded him every information upon the subject.
My lords, I wish to know what explanation her Ma.
jesty's Government can give of these circumstances,
and I do not think that the importance of the subject
is at all diminished because these transactions are of
three years' date, for Lord Stratford de Redcliffe is still
ambassador at Constantinople, and Mr. Pisani occupies,
I believe, the same position in the legation as he did
then. My noble friend the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs last year offered no explanation with regard to
these circumstances, nor did I expect him at that time
to do so, as he probably was not then acquainted with
all the facts of the case ; but I did expect that, when a
statement had been mae involving a grave charge
against the British ambassador, and reflecting upon the
honour of a member of the British Legation, I did ex-
pect, I say, that when each a statement had been pub-
licly made in your lordships' house, even by a member
so inconsiderable as myself, some explanation would be
offered by those whom the statement concerned. I need
not tell your lordships that, in the present state of
affairs, duties of the very greatest importance are en-
trusted to th.e British ambassador at Constantinople, or
that the position occupied by Mr. Pisani is also of the
highest importance. While we employ in the East an
ambassador who is not conversant with the Oriental
language, the truthfulness and trustworthiness of the
interpreter or dragoman attached to the embassy afford
the only security which the country possesses that its
affairs will be properly transacted. Upon these grounds
I ask my noble friend what explanation can be afforded
of the discrepancy which I have pointed out ?
The Earl of CLARENDON—My lords, my reply to
my noble friend will be a very brief one, because I am
not able to give any complete explanation in answer to
the inquiry which he has addressed to ma. At the same
time I cannot help expressing my regret that my noble
friend should have broaght forward this subject at the
present moment, and should have preceded it by the
speech which he has made, because I think that he has
failed to show either that there was any urgent necessity
for bringing it forward, or that any practical good could
be expected to result from it, at a time when both your
lordships' House and the other House of Parliament
have given such unequivocal proofs of their determina-
tion to avoid anything that can be likely to produce
embarrassment or irritation. (Hear.) In so doing,
Parham. at has acted from the highest sense of duty,
and I believe that it faithfully represents the feeling of
the country in resolving to wait with patience for the
result of the negotiations which are about to be entered
upon—anxious for an honourable peace, but if that, un-
for,unately, cannot be obtained, determined to prosecute
the war with vigour. Feeling, my lords, that the meet-
ing of Parliament will rather tend to facilitate than to
render the negotiations difficult, and feeling confident,
also, in the sincerity of our intentions, I believe, if we
are but met, as I trust we shall be, with similar sincerity
on the part of those with whom we have to treat, that
these negotiations ought to be neither long nor difficult ;
but, if we have reasonable grounds for anticipating the
conclusion of peace, I cannot see the practical utility of
ripping up 'transactions that occurred previous to the
conamencearent of the war. My noble friend com-
plainsithat I did not answer his speech upon this sub-
ject last year. My noble friend certainly made a
speech of very great length and very great power
upon that occasion, to various portions of which I could
not reply, because my attention had not been drawn to
them previously ; nor did I then, nor do I now, attach
the same importance to the discrepancy that my noble
friend does. It is a matter which concerns the Turkish
Ministers, who, from some motive or other, first denied
the existence, and afterwards would not admit the con-
tents, of a certain document ; and, having once deviated
from the fact, they have never since been able to make
a consistent story of it. It is perfectly true, as my ,
noble friend has stated, that Colonel Rose on the 24th
of March heard that Rifaat Pasha had received a note
verbale from the Russian Government. He went to in-
quire whether it was true, and all that he could learn
was that the Turkish Government believed that the
Russian Government intended to propose a secret
treaty, but he was not sure that Use Turkish Govern-
ment would inform the British Emlllassy of it. A week
afterwards Col. Rose saw both the Grand Vizier and the
Minister of Foreign Affairs ; and he then heard, as was
reported by Mr. Pisani afterwards, that Rifaat Pasha
had said that a note verbale bad been presented by Prince
Menschikoff; but they stated that Prince Menschikoff
had used the strongest language to prevent any com-
munication of it to the British or French embassies,
and hal endeavoured to extract from Rifaat Pasha a
promise that no each communication should be made ;
and that on Rifaat Pasha hesitating to give that pro-
mise Prince Menschikoff left him in great anger. My
lords, T think there can be so doubt that the Turkish
Ministers were intimidated, for at the same interview
Rifaat Pasha informed C donel Rose that he did not
consider that Russia had specified or declared what her
intentions were. I ;think, therefore, that the Turkish
Ministers were intimidated ; nor is it very surprising
that they should have been when they knew the circum-
stances ender which Prince Menschikoff was there ; when
they knew that the very predecessor of Rifaat Pasha had
been compelled to quit office on account of Prince Men-
sohikoff ; when they knew the vast power of Russia and
their own want of preparation, and were ignorant of the
c turse which Franca and England were about to take.
Under such circumstances, I am not surprised that the
Turkish Ministers, after the language which had been
held, should have been somewhat intimidated, and some-
what cautious in the proceedings they adopted. This is
further confirmed by Lord Stratford, who, upon his
arrival at Constantinople, wrote that the Turkish Minis-
ter had broached the subject to him, but that he was un-
able to draw any explanation from him; and he added,
that the fear which induced the Turkish Minister to
withhold the truth arose from the language which had
been used towards him by Prince Menschikoff, and that
it greatly embarrassed the settlement of the question.
But it is perfectly true that the note verbale never was
given to the British embassy at all. It was placed in my
bands by Baron Brunow, and by me it was sent to
Lard Stratford. Lord Stratford writes that Mr. Pisani
says that the Turkish Government could net be brought
to admit the existence of the note; and Mr. Pisani says
the same thing now. I thought that the best way of
meeting the inquiry of my noble friend was to send his
question along the telegraphic wires to Constantinople—
(hear)—and I will now read to your lordships the answer
which I received yesterday. Lord Stratford telegraphed
to me from Constantinople on the 7th inst. the following
answer :

" Mr. Pisani confirms to me what I stated in my des-
patch to your lordship of May 27, 1853, viz., that the
Turkish Foreign Secretary at that time would not then ac-
knowledge the existence of the document called Prince
Menschikofl's note of March 16 or 17,' in the same year.
The Pasha was pressed to give use a copy of it, and he ap-
pears to have resorted to subterfuges and disavowals in
order to avoid the importunity. Mr. Pisani affirms that
subsequently a search was made by him, with the assist-
ance of Noureddi Bey, the Porte's chief interpreter, and
that the paper was not to be found in the archives of the
Turkish corferpondenee."
In fact, the Turkish Ministers would not allow the ex-
istence of that note in order that they might not be
pressed to give a copy of it, which they were afraid of
doing. My noble friend, however, tries to fix blame upon
Lord Stratford in this matter in a manner which shows,
I think, that he is not quite familiar with the contents
of the note, and that he is unmindful of the original
cause of the war. The note contained a long recital of
Russian grievances against Turkey with respect to the
Holy Places, and demanded that certain things should
be done in reparation of those grievances and in fulfil-
ment of engagements with Russia which it was said had
been violated the year before. Some of those things,
however, which were required to be done, were contrary
to the arrangement which had been entered into with
the French Ambassador, and the Porte was greatly
embarrassed how to act ; but by the friendly interpo-
sition of Lord Stratford the Porte was relieved from
its embarrassment, and Lord Stratford received the
thanks of all parties. It was only after that matter had
been satisfactorily settled that other demands were
brought forward by Russia, to which the Turkish Go-
vernment could not assent, and which we could not re-
commend them to concede. I will pursue the subject no
further, but I beg my noble friend to bear in mind that
Lord Stratford was perfectly aware of the contents of the
note verbale ; that he acted upon it; and that if no other
demands had been made by Russia beyond those which
were contained in the note verbale, Lord Stratford would
have prevented a rupture between Russia and the Porte.
(Hear.) My noble friend concluded by some remarks
upon Lord Stratford which I do not think were alto-
gether fair. Lord Stratford, like all the rest of us, may
have his defects, but no man will deny Lord Stratford's
high sense of honour and extensive qualifications. There
is no man who is more intimately acquainted with Ori-
ental questions, no man who more desires to see the
progress and prosperity of the Ottoman empire than Lord
Stratford. Lord Stratford has rendered great services,
and he is still rendering great services. As I came down
to the house this evening I received a letter from him,
stating the progress of events, and I can safely say that
by his knowledge and ability he has been eminently use-
Jul in procuring a settlement of what is called the Fourth
Point, and in securing to the non-Mussulman subjects
of the Porte a position which I believe will be highly
satisfactory to the Christian Powers of Europe. (Elear.)
Earl GREY—I am extremely gorry that my noble
friend has thought it necessary to question the propriety
of the step which I have deemed it my duty to take this
eYlOalug. die Sap that r4lianavnt has Very propelly