The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-18 00:00:00

THE. SUN,

—( Rear, belr.) Did they wish their reproent:qives to

sent day, and met they were tit prototypes of Henry VIII.,
John Knox, and Cromwell?—(Hear.) There were two sides
to all those cases of persecution—put them down not to the
score of Catholic or Protestant, but to that of corrupt human
nature. But it had been said that the appointment of a
Reman Catholic hierarchy in this country was an insult to
the British people. For his part, however, he could not un-
derstand how thot act could be regarded as au insult or an
aggression; and he certainly felt convinced that it had never
been meant for such a purpose. Within the last few years a
Roman Catholic bish ip had been appointed in Ireland with-
out any offence to the Protestant party throughout the
em sire; and surely an act which was perfectly harmless in
Ireland afforded no just ground fur public indignation in
England. Why, the Protestant party in this country ought,
consistently with their own hatred of Papal ascendancy, to
approve of an act which raised the Roman Catholic vicars-
apostolic into bishops, and by that means rendered
them less dependent on the Pope. The Honourable
Gentleman the Member for the Univesity of Cambridge
(Mr. Goulburn), had talked that evening of the debasement
and misery which the profession of the Roman Catholie
religion produced amon e nations. Now, in reply to that
aspersion, he (Sir W. Barron) would confidently point to
the history of the glories of Italy and the imperishable
monuments of the genius of her children. He
would point to the great men who had contri-
buted to raise France to her high pitch of prosperity and
civilization. He would point, to to the distinguished
men win) had illustrated the annals of England herself in
former ages. The Act then under their consideration was a
paltry, contemptible measure, good for nothing but insul .
If it were passed into law its effects in Ireland would be
peculiarly disastrous. There would be no civil war in con-
sequence in that country, but there would be distrust and
hatred of English legislation. He would tell them that it
would be an impotent law, and worse than impotent —it
would be a disgrace to their statute-book. It would be an
insult to the Church of the Irish people, and upon that point
they were far more tenacious than they were of their lives
or properties. It would do her Majesty's Ministers nozood,
but would inflict a stain on their name and throw difficulties
in the way of their party which centuries would not re-
move. He implored of them, therefore, to pause before they
determined on persevering with so pernicious and insulting
a measure.
Mr. CALVERT (the new Member for Aylesbury) said
that he had never entered upon the consideration of any sub-.
ject which was, to his view, more pregnant with the most
important consequences to all the great interests of the
country than the measure now under discussion. The sup-
porters of the Bill were told that they were guilty of perse-
cution and of retrograde conduct with reference to the
Emancipation Act of 1829. ;Sow, so far as persecution was
concerned, no man could feel a deeper interest than he did
in the welfare and progress of Ireland, and his feeling with
regard to the Roman Catholics of England was that no body
of persons were more loyal, or more deserved the attention
and consideration of the Legislature. It was with a
sincere anxiety, therefore, to do justice to the Roman
Catholics on both sides of the channel that he now
approached this subject. The Act of 129 was simply for
the purpose of establishing civil privileges. It was t -
tally unconnected with the subject under discussion; and,
with the exception of one particular clause, there was not,
from the commencement to the conclusion of it, any refer-
ence to matters of a spiritual character, and by that clause a
penalty was laid upon those Roman Catholie bishop's who
took the titles of then existing sees. It was said, however,
that this did not prevent the assumption of titles of sees de-
rived from other places; but, up to the last four yeare, the
parties who took such titles under a Papal brief were guilty
of treason. Since that period the penalty had been taken
away, but the offence remained. When the opponents of the
Bill spoke of persecution, let him ask who were the parties
who had compelled the Government to enter upon this course
of legislation ? In the first place, he found a person coming
to this country with authority from a foreign power, assert-
ing a spiritualjurisdiction over him (Mr. Calvert.)—(Cries
of " Hear," and " No," from several Irish Members). He
could prove to them " yes"— a spiritual jurisdiction over him.
--(Cheers.) There was a man setting up a cardinal's throne
in the neighbourhood of Lambeth, under the authority of a
foreign potentate, and because he (Mr. Calvert) resisted the
act, was he to be told that he was guilty of persecution ? Why,
the charge was absurd, and inconsistent with the meaning of
the language— and he contended that he was then standing in
a position of self-defence, and was not amenable to any such
charge. The question before the House was, whether or not
it was exped ent that the present Bill should be read a
second time? For 150 years, from 1710 to this time, the
question had been decided in one uniform manner by the
Legislature, every Act, beginning with the sth of Anne,
chap. 8, sec. 10, having uniformly adopted a phrase which
drew a distinction between the authority of a Ro-
man Catholic over, a congregation, and his authority
over a place. The quEstson might also be viewed with
reference to the general law of Europe; for, throughout
the whole of Europe, wherever Roman Catholic bishops
had been admitted at all , they had always been subject to
some contr I—by placet or eaeguatur— which prevented
them from exercising the same authority that they had in
Rome. The most important effect of the recent act of ag-
gression by the Pope would be the introduction of the
canon law. T introduce that, they were told there must
be a regular series of archbishops and bishops in the
country, the 'act being that unless there were arch-
bishops and bishops to introduce and give effect to it, that
law could not take practical effect. Let the House see the
result of that. Take the establishment of the new col-
leges in Ireland as an example. Suppose the Pope issued a
brief condemning these colleges, and no episcopate existed in
Ireland, it would then be a mere matter of conscience with
every Roman Catholic to decide whether he would obey the
brief or not; but if an episcopate were established, then, by
virtue of the canon law, every individual Roman Catholic in
the country must bend before the brief. Not a man could
resist it. Liberty would be put an end to, and all must bow
to the decision of the Pope. There had been much debating
upon the subject of the Bill ; but had any Roman Catholic
Member yet pointed out a single spiritual want of the Reiman
Catholics which was not satisfied under the institution of
vicars apostolic? He (Mr. Calvert) did not want to deprive
the Roman Catholics of a single spiritual benefit; but he
must say he believed the vicars apostolic were able to supply
all the spiritual wants of that community in this country.
The Hon. Member then remarked upon the insulting charac-
ter of the act of the Pope in issuing his brief without first
consulting the wishes of the country and the Government,
and in using the term " Catholic England" in his brief,
when he knew that it was not "Catholic" but " Protestant"
England; for if it were " Catholic England," why were not the
Staarts upon the throne? (Cheers.) In point of fact the Pope
in using that phrase was cenyeying an intimation that the
present Sovereign ought not to be upon the throne. AnotSer
reason why the present Bill was necessary was, the constant
tendency of Rome to encroach upon the authority of the
Crown, as might be seen on reference to Belgium, Sardinia,
and other continental states. In the course of this debate
it had been asserted that the Roman Catholic bishops were
appointed in this country because they had been appointed
in Ireland. Thus encroachment followed encroachment, and
the only thing they gained by making a concession was
that that concession was deelared to be a right, and
the right was then taken as the groundwork for further
encroachment. His Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr.
Roundell Palmer) had referred to the Protestant Dissenting
communities, and said that if they were allowed
free action it must also be allowed to the woman Catholics.
But let the House observe the difference. In the first place,
there was no persuasion or body of persons in this country
who, by any religious arrangement, questioned in any way
the order or establishment of bishops, and no one in which
the temporal power had not great weight over the
spiritual. - (Cheers.) That was a most material matter. Let
the conferences or assemblies of any of them be examined,
and it would always be found that the temporal was above
the spiritual ; whereas the essence of the system of the Roman
Catholic Church was, that the temporal should not exist
except in obedience to the spiritual; and in his (Mr. Cal-
vert's) opinion nothing should induce us'to consent that the
temporal power should be subject altogether to the spiritual.
--(Hear, hear.) In point of fact, the Pope of Rome was
the supreme head of a vast army of bishops and priests
scattered all over Europe, who must therefore be regarded
with jealousy, and it should be remembered that every mem-
ber of the Methodist Conference, or of an assembly of Non-
conformist divine', was an Englishman, and that whatever
else might be his object, that object could not be for the ad-
vantage of the stranger.—(Hear, hear.) How was it with
regard to the Pope ? lie was non only Pope of
Rome, but there might be other foreign powers
who had influence over him.— (Hear, hear.) At this
meo: ent the French bad possession of Rome, and he (Mr.
Calvert) did not believe that they entertained sinister
easilyfeel-
ingsebr:ltwhheicchohualdving
possession of the
imagine ano-
ther
great
Popedom, and with a bold and scrupulous minister, who en-
conthtiinsecnotda country;
tproy w;
en-
tertained hostile views towards the Constitution and the
power of England, might use that influence for the purpose
of inflicting immense damage upon w, and embarrassing an
authority which it knew would be ever used for the purpose
of promoting constitutional government It hal been stated
that the present Bill was, after all, a small measure, and he
thought it was so; but he did not think that, therefore, it
was a measure which ought not to be passed. It might be
necessary, however, to have recourse to further legislation :
but even if that were so, he should not be sorry that they had
thus afforded a locus penitentice, and given the Pope an op-
portunity to withdraw his brief, retrace his steps, and avoid
the enormous evils which his conduct was calculated to pro-
duce.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CHARTERIS said he had been much struck with the
strange logic of the supporters of the Bill, and the inconsis-
tency between their arguments and their votes. They said,
" We give our votes upon the ground of civil and religious
liberty. We vote for complete toleration; and because we
dread the establishment of a hierarchy in this country, and
the ntroduction of the canon law, we vote for a Bill which
touches not one of these points." Therefore, he was at a
loss to understand how they could reconcile their
speeches with their votes. From all that had occurred,
both within and without the walls of Parliament, it
appeared that the act of the Pope bad bees re-
garded solely in the light of a temporal aggression
It was considered to be not an act for the better internal
government of the Roman Catholic communion in this
country, but an assumption of temporal power by the Sove-
reign of the Roman States. The,t was the view taken by
her Majesty in the Speech from the Throne, by the Noble
Lord in introducing the Bill, and by the Right Hon. Baronet
in propoting the amended Bill, and they stated that there
being no redress afforded by the statute law, they had come
to Parliament for further powers. But if it were true
that an insult had been offered to the Sovereign of the
realm, it was not to Parliament that they should have had
recourse for redress, but to the public law of Europe.
The lion. and Learned Member for Oxford (Mr. P. Wood)
had maintained that the sovereignty of the realm had been
violated by this so-called Paeal aggression. The Hon. and
Learned Member for Plymouth (Mr. R. Palmer), in every
word of whose able speech he (Mr. Charteris) fully agreed,
was of opinion that the right in the matter was dependent
not upon the Sovereign of the State, but on certain condi-
tions previously agreed upon—upon a concordat, fbr the es-
tablishment or partial establishment f the Roman Ca-
tholic Church in the tate. Thus it appeared doctors dif-
fered. Dr. Twiss stated there was no position in law so
completely established with reference to the relations be-
tween the Pope and the Sovereigns of other States, as that
the Royal placet or exesptatur of the Crown was previously
necessary to the appointment of bishoprics in a country.
That opinion was corroborated by the proceedings before
the Committee ofq 815, where it was stated, by a German
jurion that the Royal places was previously . necessary. He
(Mr. Charteris) was inclined to concur in that opinion:
He thought it would be found that that right had been
exercised by Sovereign Princes before and since the RO's
formation, and, if that were so, it was not to the House of
Commons, but to the Foreign-office, they should look for,
redress. But it was for them to consider whether it was
not their own fault that they were now discussing
this question—whether that spirit of intolerance which at-
tributed the famine in Ireland and the cholera to their
having whitewashed the walls of Maynooth, was not at the
bottom of the matter ; for he felt confident that had there
been an English Minister at Rome they would not slow be
discussing this question. He could not, however, bring
himself to view the matter in the light of a temporal aggres-
sion. He considered it purely a ministerial question. The
episcopal appointments by the Pope he regarded merely as