The Sun.
London, England, 1834-03-07 00:00:00

COUNTY RATES.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
the ratepayers of Ardington, in the county of Northamp-
ton, complaining of the unequal manner in which the
county rates were levied. The grievance was felt greatly
by the agricultural interest, and the noble duke, therefore,
trusted that in any general turnpike bill which was
brought in the grievance would be abated, one of the
great objections of the petitioners being the inequality of
the rate, relative to the repairs of turnpike roads.
Lord POLTIMORE presented a petition from the
royal borough of Dumfries, praying for an alteration in
the system of church patronage in Scotland.
Lord PAGET presented a petition from Leominster,
praying for the removal of the disabilities under which
the Dissenters laboured. The noble lord also presented
a petition from Bettumaris, for the better observance of
the Sabbath.

Lord SOUTHAMPTON presented a petition from
Southampton against the dissolution of the connection be-
tween church and state.

Lord LYTTLETON presented petitions from the dis-
senter,' of Oswestry and Redditch for the removal of their
disabilities.

TEA TRADE,

Lord ELLENBOROUGH moved for certain returns
relative to the tea trade, which were agreed to.

TIT HE SYSTEM.

The NOSLE LORD, seeing the noble earl at the head of
his Majesty's government in his place, wished to know at
what period the house might expect that his Majesty's
ministers would be prepared to lay before parliament
their intended measures relative to the composition and
commutation of tithes.

Earl GREY observed that a bill had been prepared
which had to undergo certain formula, but he was in
hopes that it would be ;aid before the house at an early
period.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH would suggest for the con-
sideraticn of the noble earl, the expediency of making
t commutation of church rates a pert of his plan.
Eail GREY observed that that subject had not been
overlooked. •

The Duke of NORFOLK presented a petition from
the dissenters of Burnham-park, praying for the removal
of their disabilities. The noble duke would take that
Opportunity of stating, that with reference to an esta-
blished religion, he thought:that it was essential to all states,
provided that religion and that church did not exclude
whets, on account of their own tenets, from civil and re-
ligious rights.—(Hear, hear.) Upon that principle, and
considering the established church in this country as the
religion of the majority of the empire, be should
give it his most cordial support, though he differed
from its doctrines upon many points.—(Hear, hear.)
As a peer of Parliament, he considered that he had
an undoubted right to give his vote upon points
regarding the establi,L•nment, such as the dispensa-
tion of benefices, bishoprics, and other matters of that
nature connected with the church. In the course
of the last session, a right rev. prelate bad expressed an
opinion against that right. He (the Duke of N.) differed
with hins upon that point, and be trusted that he had
the sanction of the house in what he stated.—(Hear.)
With respect to anything touching upon the doctrines of
the church of England, anything relating to its liturgy, he
considered himself not at. liberty to give any vote, but
with that reservation, he having been admitted to all the
civil rights of a peer and a citizen, he contended that he
bad a right to vote on the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl CAWDOR presented several petitions from the
Protestant Dissenters of Carmarthen, praying for relief
from their disabilities.
THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH.

Lord DELAWARE, in presenting a petition from the
lay inhabitants of Wisheach, praying for protection of the
established church, observed that the signs of the times
were such that it could not be a matter of surprise that
great jealously had been excited in the breasts of the
adherents of the church of England at the conces-
sions that were about to be made by the bill which
had keen introduced by the noble paymaster of the
forces to a body that had gone the length of
denouncing and asking for the suppression of the
church establishment.—(Hear.) He would take upon
himself to say that if his Majesty's ministers supported
the established church against the attacks of its enemies,
they would receive, from the one end of the country to the
other, support beyond their most sanguine expectations.
If, however, they pursued a contrary course, they could not
expect, and would not receive, the least support.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE preserved a petition
from the independent dissenters of Salisbury, praying for
a removal of the grievances which affected them.
Lord WYNFORD brought in a bill for the assimilation
of the practice in the courts of law in Ireland and England,
and to facilitate the recovery of judgments obtained in one
country in the other. He instanced a case which,
he said, was very well known to the noble and learned
lord on the woolsack, in which a judgment for
30,0001. bad been obtained against a party in Ireland ;
be then came to this country, where the judgment was
affirmed, but by that time the party was in Fiance. A
considerable expense was gone to in that country
in order to enforce the judgment—(Hear, hear)--
but by the time that proctss htd been gone through he
was again in another country, and so on the thing might
go for an unlimited time. It was to put an end to
such abuse of the law that he introduced that bill.

It would also have the great object in view of putting
an end to the great delay occasioned by the present sys-
tem. lie move! that it he read a first time.

The LORD CHANCELLOR acknowledged that great
delay and expense were engendered by the law as it at pre-
sent stood, and willingly acceded that some legislation was
necessary upon the subject. He would take the earliest op.
portunity of looking into the details of the bill, and would
give it his most earnest attention.
The bill was then read a first time, and was ordered to
be read a second time on Monday.
On the motion of Viscount MELBOURNE, an ad-
dress was ordered to be presented to his Majesty, praying
that he would order a return of the number of criminals
that had been convicted in England and Wales during the
year 1833.—T0 be laid upon the table.
The Bishop of BATE! and WELLS presented a peti •
tion from Bath for the better observance of the Sabbath
Dry ; also one from a place in the county of Somerset, in
favour 'of the establishment as it stood in relation to the
state.

The Earl of DURHAM presented a petition from the
parish of S,. Botolph, Bishopegate, agreed to at a meeting
of the vestry in December, and signed by three hundred
and sixty inhabitants, all of whom inhabited houses above
201., which stated that they were zealously attached to
the church, yet they felt it a great grievance to be so
severely taxed for the support of the bietarchy ; that they
were oppressed by the unien of church and state, and the
heavy burden of tithes, especially by a local act of 1823,
which gave the rector paver of levying upon 30 of the
parishioners for the full sum of 2,5001., which had been
fixed upon as his income from the parish. They prayed
the house would grant them relief in all those matters, but
more especially by tl,e repeal of the local act. _

The Bishop of LONDON said, that having had a local
connection with the parish in question, and having a
knowledge of the facts alluded to, he trusted the house
would allow him to trespass upon their attention for
a very few minutes, that he might have an op-
portunity of saying a few words upon one of the
most extraordinary petitions that had ever toine before
that house.—(Hear.) Without wishing to say anything
haish of his o:d p trishionets, he must say that they
showed great ignorance in the manner in which they used
the word " hierarchy." Taey did not, or he was very
much mistaken, contribute one single farthing towards
the support of the hierarchy of the church. The
citizens had been in the habit of paying at Easter a sum
amounting to 3s. 6d. in the pound on the rack
rent. That gave die to great confusion, and some
tumults were the consequence. Commissioners, consisting
of the great officers of state and others, were appointed to
inquire into and settle the matter. They repot ted, and the
matter was settled by the citizens agreeing in future to pay

•

two shillings and ninepence per pound in place of 3s. 6d.
In 1820 the then rector took steps to increase the in-
come of the living, which was then very small—the
tithe never being above 10d., certainly not Is,, in place of
2s. 9d., which by law was exigible. That gave rise to
great discontent. When be (the Bishop of London)
was appointed to the living, he followed the same
course, and never drew more than Is. per pound ; but
the inhabitants expressed very considerable apprehension
of what his successors might do, and wished that
there might be an income fixed by Act of Parliament.
His income then was 2,3001., and considering his dormant
claims, be thought he had not been bard when
he fixed it at 2,5001., 3001. to be allowed for the pay-
ment of a minister of a new church to be built in the pa-
rish.—(Hear.) The drawing up of that act, which was
the local one complained of, was left to the
parishioners themselves, and they it was who intro-
duced that necessary clause by which the income was
secured. How then they now complained so bitterly he
was at a loss to conceive. The building of that new
church did not cost the parishioners a farthing, it having
been entirely built from funds supplied by the
commissioners for building new churches. Teat
church also was absolutely necessary, for though
the parish contained 9,000 inhabitantQ, the old church
could only contain 1,200. The parish, by the
act in question, was now secured from being
called upon to pay more than the specified sum, in
place of a sum of seven thousand pounds, which would
be the amount if the lawful amount of 2s. 9d. per pound
was insisted on. By the act also it was enacted that
there should be a revaluation every 10 years—not in order
to raise the income of the rector•, but to keep him at toe
same relative value. That would be in two or three years,
when, knip the average price of corn for the last '7 or 8
years, it was most likely that it would be reduced from
800/. to 4001. In a few days another petition would be
presented frond the same parish, and certainly
from not less respectable persons than the present, the
prayer of which was of a very different nature.
The Earl of DURHAM said, as the rev, prelate bad felt
it his duty to say so much on the one side, he felt it due
to the parishioners to make a few further remarks.
He did not agree with the petitioners in their wish
for the separation of church and state. In his
opinion it was necessary that every state should
afford some religious instruction to the people.
1 Ile did not mean to deny that those who differed from
the established church ought not to be empowered to follow
their religion without molestation, but at the same time
he expressed his dissent to any attempt to sever the union
of the church and state. He had thought it right to
make these few observations, and while he most po-
sitively disclaimed any mention whatever to impute
to the right rev. prelate, or his predecessor, any unfair
conduct in procuring the act which had been passed, he
hoped their lordships would think that he had done right
in presenting the petition, which prayed for the alteration
of such parts of it as they complained of. The noble earl
then presented petitions from the Dissenters of Alders-gate-
street in the city of London ; ft om the Dissenters of Poole;
from the Presbyterian congregation at Ledbury, in the
West Riding of Yorkshire; from the presbyteries of Spal-
ding, Merthyr Tidvil (signed by 5,000 persons), Nor-
thumberland, St. Paul's chapel, Henley in Lancashire,
and from the dissenters of Wickham, praying for the re-
moval of the disabilities under which they laboured.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER presented a petition
from the city of Chester, praying their lordships to adopt
some legislative measure for the better observance of the
Sabbath.

The house then adjourned till half-past three o'clock
to-morrow (this day).•

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Mr
afica 6.

The SPEAKER took the chair at twenty minutes past
five o'clock.

The report of tLe superintending committee of the
general penitentiary was brought up.
Sir H. PARNELL !,resented two petitions against
the corn laws, one of which was from Dunfermline.
Mr. STRUTT (we understood) presented a petition from
Derby against the corn laws; it was signed by 13,000
persons in the space of three days.
Mr. O'CONNELL moved for a committee to inquire
into the number of clergymen in the established church
in Ireland, with a view to ascertain the real spiritual
wants of the professors of that church, and to appropriate
its supe►fluous revenues to some other object than the pre-
sent one.—(Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned member
also moved for a return of the number of 101. householders in
Carrickfergus, and those who bad obtained their freedom as
well as those who voted at the last election; also, for the
names, occupations, and residence of all who were en-
franchised in that town by the Act of the 2d of William
the 4th, chap. SS. The hon. and learned gentleman re-
marked that an inaccuracy occurred last evening in the
report of what be said concerning the evidence of
Mr. Legg, relative to the Carrickfergus question. No two
of the reporters agreed in what each returned on that
point; he would not take any further notice of the matter,
however.