The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-15 00:00:00

-went, had, in consideration of his services, a petty Go-
vernorship granted him; Col. Bathurst, too, received a
pension for his special services—not more than he deserved.
The gist of the question was, whether the control of the
army should be lett as at present. According to the terms
of the Constitution, it was in the hands of the King. Was
it to be turned over to the Parliament? This latter, he
contended, would be a mode fir from judicious. If a
gross sum were to he voted by Parliament for the pay
of the officers, it would be much greater in amount th in
the sum at present expended. The officers, as it was,
were contented with a small pension, holding the honour
of being called Governor of this little place or that,
in much higher estimation than the emolument arising
front it. He must sty that this Government, as all Go-
vernments must sometimes he, wis placed in a difficult
position. Eve❑ if they went to work retrenching, they
were called to account for it. The First Lord of the Ad-
miralty, who had indulged in some very justifiable little
boasts of what retrenchments he had effected, even he had
been taken to task by a Gallant Captain. He could not
help calling to mind an observation of the Hon. Member
for Middlesex (Mr. Hume), the other day, which at the
time amused him very much, and which he should not
forget for some time to come, which was to the er-
feet, that all men who took a large part in public
matters, like himself (Mr. Hume), should keep things
in a proper train, by making Ministers a little uneasy.
—(A laugh.) Mr. Hume himself had acted most zea-
lously up to this principle, for he had continued to annoy
every Ministry he had ever come in contact with. With
respect to himself (Sir J. C. Hobhouse), he could assure
Mr. Flume that his plan had succeeded to his heart's con-
tent ; for he could assure that Hon. Gentleman that he
(Sir J. C. Hobhouse) had not had an hoar's peace since he
entered into office. It was no pleasant thing fir him to
come down every day to the House, to he badgered by so
ingenious a gentleman as Mr. Hume.—(A 1 tugh.) But
he was contented, for he knew full well that he and the
other Members would meet with their reward, and have
justice done them—(Cheers)—for he felt convinced that
the people were not the fickle, volatile, inconstant crowd
they had been represented ; and that they were not so
ignorant of who were their friends, and who not, as not to
do justice to the Ministry.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gen-
tleman had said, " Keep Governments uneasy." Ile
allowed that it was proper to have a watch over Ministers,
but at the same time do not make them so uneasy as to
render them incapable of doing anything at all. He was per-
suaded the popular feeling was quite in favour of Ministers,
and that the whole nation tested in perfect confluence
on them. He would convince the House that this was a
fact, by giving an account of a meeting that was to have
been held that morning in Westminster, at which it was
understood the Hon. Member for Surrey (Major Beau-
clerk) would ue present. This meeting was to take into
consideration the repeal of the septennial act, the aboli-
tion of the assessed taxes, and the adoption of the vote
by ballot ; and was to have been held, as usual, at 12 for
1. There were about 70 or 80 people assembled, but not
one on the hustings. At one o'clock came the High
Bailiff and his posse, who wished to open the proceedings,
and therefore wanted to know where the gentlemen were
who were to perform for the day.

Major BEAUCLERK said, I was not of the party.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE—WeII, no one came, but the
bailiff said, that it was supposed two or three friends,
whom he (Sir J. C. Hobhouse) now saw opposite him,
would be there ; but as none of them catne, tl e meeting
was at last obliged to sep irate. This was one instance to
show, that there did not exist among the people that
feverish anxiety and restlessness which was ascribed to
them, except in cases of real grievances; and it was unjust
to say that Ministers were not fully acquainted with what
those grievances were, and were not prepared to apply
practical remedies for them.—(Cheers.) He felt certain
that their conduct would not be misjudged, and that they
might look with confidence for their reward.—(Cheers.)
The people would judge of them by what they had effected
by the Reformed Parliament —(Cheers.)
Mr. STRICKLAND had all his life been a decided
Reformer, and as such a decided enemy to all sinecures.
It might, therefore, be asked of him why he gave his vote
for• Ministers in the present instance? His answer was,
that he did so from a feeling that the motion of the Hon.
Member fur Middlesex was founded on a mere abstract
proposition, which would not save the people one farthing,
and about which they did not care one farthing.—
(Cheers.) He wanted Reform to be a substance.
Mr. GUEST made a few observations, which were in-
audible in the gallery.
Mr. LABOUCHERE should vote in favour of Mini-
sters. Au Hon. Gentleman having said that lie should
not object to the p. nsions if they had been earned by good
service, he wool ! just recd the names of those who enjoyed
the sinecures c-qnplained of, and he was sure the House
would then be quite sati-lied anout it. The whole amount
of the pensions is 4 7001., which is distributed among the
following distinguished officers .—Sir Elward Thorn-
borough, Vice Admiral; Sir Ge ,rge Martin, Vice Admi
ral ; Lord de Saum rez, General of Marines ; Sir Sidney
Smith, Lieutenant- General of Marines ; and Col.
bourn, General of Marines. Then followed four Colonels
of M trines, all distinguished names. He denied that the
dockyards were in a bad condition, or that the Thrums
was o-
pen to invasion. Quite the contrary. Notwith-
standing the great retrenchments effected in that depart.
mint by the present Ministry, all the naval stores were in
much greater quantity, and in better order than under the
late Administration.

Captain YORKE added his strong testimony to this
statement of the excellent condition of the dockyards, &c.
The navy bad never been more efficient than at present;
he p.otesttd against the application of the term sinecures
to the pensions granted to n ival officers, all which he said
had been well earned.

Sir E. CODRINGTON, though he should prefer re
ceiving the grant from the legitimate source, would still
gladly receive the additional approbation of this House.
He considered the half-pay and pensions granted for ser-
vices as a just debt, and not, according to the opinion very
generally entertained, as a retaining fee. He had been
glad to hear the pr s-nt debate, as the arguments and facts
elicited would set people's minis right on the subject. He
agreed in the opinion that the honours attached to the
offices were more gratifying than the emoluments, and
considered this method of remuneration to be real economy.
He would go the whole length in abolishing sinecures and
unmerited pensions, but these were neither the one nor the
other.

Sir F. BURDETT made some observations on the tone
of debate assumed by some of the Hon. Members, which,
he said, might possibly have some effect on the Corn Ex-
change at Dublin, or on a person haranguing an indis•
criminate assemblage of people in Covent garden, but in
this House was misplaced. No honest man requii ed to
be admonished that his constituency, that the whole
people had their eyes on him ; but no man would be
swayed from what his conscience would approve by vio-
lence of language. The people had been greatly misled
with respect to the meaning of the word sinecure ; and he
was, therefore, glad to bear this debate, as it would com-
pletely set them right. Certain assertions had been put
forth to them ad captandum, that this I,t as one of the
ways taken to pick their pockets. Were such the case,
he (Sir Francis) would never consent to it; but the fact
was, that it was a cheap way of rewarding these distin-
guished officers for their splendid services ; they were not
sinecurists, but emeriti. The Reformed Parliament would
he led by sound argument and facts impartially given,
and not be swayed by any preposterous statements or ex-
aggerations, such as they had heard frotn the Hon. Mem
ber for Middlesex, who had illustrated his views of the
atrocity of pensions and sinecures by casting up a sum,
and staling, that if the salary paid to Speaker Onslow had
been continued up to the present day (being saved to the
country), and had been put out regularly at compound in-
terest, it would have amounted to some terrible sum or
other, be did not recollect how much ; and then there was
another account—that of the salary paid to Speaker Len•
thall, that bad been disposed of in a similar way—it would
by this time be enough to pay half the National Debt. These
were the sort of preposterously theoretical arguments
usually made by the Hon. Gentleman, which he (Sir F.
Burdett) said had nothing whatever to do with the ques-
tion. Appeals to figures were always misleading, and
never more than in this instance. But even if they were
not misieading, be could conscientiously vote on this oc-
casion against the motion : because he was satisfied that
the question was of comparatively little importance ; and
was not of sufficient importance to justify them in imped-
ing the proceedings of Ministers, who were engaged in
much more important public business, by such debates.
The Gentlemen opposite—at least some of them—com-
plained of the Reformed Parliament, because the Re-
formed Parliament was not an instrument in their hands.
—(Hear, hear.) The people had now got a Reformed
Parliament capable of putting down abuses, and Ministers
were engaged in putting them down. While the old
system existed, he had signalized its abuses as much as
any man ; but the people were not to be told, before the
Reformed Parliament had urn got together, that it was
incapable of executing its office, because it did nut go along
with all the projects of the gentlemen who wished to
make use of it for their owu purpo-es.—(Hear, hear.)
There were great projects on foot. One Hun. Gentleman
announced that he was to prove that the rich paid no
taxes.. He should be glad to have that made out,
and glad to see any plans by which the taxes—which
were a burden to all—could be distributed and arranged,.
so that no man should feel them.—(Hear, hear.) Not