The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

as sell as Bishop of Rome. He might cease to be
Prince of Rome to-morrow, but he would stilt b' the
Brt,ioiisihg°lll, of Remo, the head of the Roman Catholic
,frons whom they derive their spiritual power,
and the very essence of the Catholic religion, and to
say to the Cathodes, that they shall not have
"ish°P3 who derive their power from the Pope
bleb ums, is to say to them—you shall not have
-.ps to confer on you the spiritual comforts of your
reHglona-(Hear, hear.) In other words, it was gross
'.-,lPeisecution.—(Hear, hear.) But he was to be met with
,110 words —aggression on her Majesty's prerogative,
41)0.1 aggression, territorial aggression. There was a
phrase that had been introduced by our American
• friende it was called the table of political capital.-- aisu h
g-ter.) It was an admirable speculation, with no
, , capital at all, for the gaining of some—(Laughter)—
ca.stathe thought the Noble Lord was obtaining political
Tthp.iyials tithe faith of this proposition.—(Hear, hear.)
of territorial aggression. Now, he charged
Ise Noble Lord (and he always looked to him to deal
rt.'n,kly) with dealing falsely on the present occasion
t,tte the people of this .—(EI, hear.)
was
n° new Papal aggression of which country ear
he now complained
.'•thing.—(Hear, hear.) He was aware of it,
ludroust have been aware of it for years.—( Hear, hear.)
14Pigland, the Noble Lord said, has been parcelled out
? a foreign power—by the Pope of Rome; but when?
• • The other day, when this bull was introduced, and a
• 'Clirdinal created, and Dr. Wiseman declared to be an
tifehbish°P? But was that the first territorial aggres-
had the first partition of England? Ever since he
there4own England he had known Catholic bishops to be
Take, for instance Bishop Baynes, he was called
.Alliatv or Siga;
he had a district that included the west
itif g`and, anti was, in reality, Bishop of Bath. He '
akblr• Ro.ebueli) therefore happened to know something
the utatth- Now he derived his power directly from
Tae .9V°. He was a bishop consecrated by the Pope.
Peculiar powers of a bishop he exercised directly
4131 the por.o
He was also vicar apostolic. Now
Co ate "°"8 that mean? It will appear that
'i 1" from the Pope having lately acquired
11;7" he has divested himself of power; and that
hom this being ai aggression it is a retrogres-
-"•-- (Rear, hear.) And that so far from encroaching
'. gaons_tse prerogative of her Majesty, ho has given, as re-
rde ecclesiastical matters, the Catholic people of Eng-
the power of governing themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
Zn Ws change was made the Catholic Bishop in
0 ig tld.was like a legate a latera; the Pope was the
Y '''i3ll°P of England, the Pope was the person who
feerieraptded tit Bishop, ano to whom everything was re-
, 611i;t: and, through his vicars apostolic, governed this
saidilyakese;
entirely in religious matters so far as the
ti„---t?Aioa were concerned.--(Heer.) Then it was said,
• bY era make • '
a hierarchy, and the bishops will be elected
1--o, ha in England.—(An Hon. Member, "No, no.")
the Honourable Gentleman would find
nhtratelf mistaken: the bishops would be elected by
on. England. subject, certainly, to the
1-4"ritobation of the Pepe; but the vicars
lie were . not appOinted by' any persons in England,
ere ippointed by the Pope, they wore under his
4°l, they were his servants—his slaves, he might say
the °power of the Pope was supreme.—(Hear,
that.) Ent oh, it is said there is much more in it than
iEeRe is called Archbishop of Westminster. He
i,a'fl.de'o ct Dr. Baines was called Bishop of Siga in partibus
; but suppose he was called Bishop of Bath
" 0189 what difference would it make, or where
173,1i1 be
pt the aggression on her Majesty's prerogative?
hear.) To have such an assertion made by
20_ greatest man amongst them, so far as power was
eon greatest
.Was preposterous. ould it tend to violate
14• hera Majesty's prerogative t'atit Dr. Wiseman should be
.11ed Archbishop of Westininster instead of beingcalled
- Melipotamus? How was her prerogative
Oses7e`4 by a mere change of words, or what was the
~,46,-trg La the aggression upon it? He had read—
ie e had not read, he had g
lanced over—columns
did et:quoins of rubbish about the matter ; but it
pnot settle the point. It was one of the glorious
, of this House that they could bring matters to a
Dot on in a calm and temperate spirit. Here they were
11',1,sroong a roarin,, set of sectarians, but in this House,
Terer humble th individual, only let him say fairly
hid honestly whatever he may have to state—only let
la Nese-
r calmly and dispassionately—and this House
thft, ,lsten to him.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore it was
,04-1.1.. e was confident, not in himself', but in the simple
our vlzentof truth which he had to make, and which he was
In:, would make his country, by and by, ashamed of the
. • ' 'fTratt of the persons who had stirred up this commotion.
sesame, hear.) But he wanted:to know what was the
ob-""ing of this word aggression? Had the law been
•ppilt!ged ? Not at all. He, however, wanted to deal
: etal'elY with the matter, as the Noble Lord had
this lie wanted to ask what was the meaning of all
jelion.°i,e? Where was the aggression upon her Ma.
th4,:gl Prerogative. He wanted to know what was
til°,7eit'ling of this word aggression? Had the law bean
te:Lged? Not at all. He wanted to deal with this mat-
, hergirrai'elY, and he asked where was the aggression upon
'
aiesty's prerogative, because Dr. Wiseman chose to
At; nitasell cardinal, or because some person else chose
weal' him cardinal, and he dressed himself in a large hat,
bi'lLPttt on red stockings, and called himself Arch-
tlii;uP; of Westminster ? He wanted not to treat
th,-„ lii a ludicrous manner, but he could notou
could it without doing so.—(Hear, hear.). Y
oot b „I, of an aggression without making an
attack
existing law with a view to is
stratisaid that this pretended
„r•ou ; but it was
selsgression would interfere with the loyalty of
toZe, of our fellovie citizens. Did anybody believe that
5,,,;;‘ bid any body believe that the Catholics of this
thtrY, the Catholics of England, who were amongst
1- most decent, the moat sulornivsive, and he
:11,14 bay were among the most humble' of her Majesty's
".leets, could, of all people in the world, be accused of
jeli4til;ng to make. an aggression upon her Ma-
prerogative. Did any ono believe that,
IidChP,IY because Dr. Wisemen was called Car-
W-"at Archbishop of Westminster? The thing was
?Posterous. Some time ago, in the year 1849, the
tr°nollrable Baronet opposite, the Member for the
university of Oxford, drew the attention of
Noble Lord to this very subject of the
gar hierarchy. By the way, the Honourable
cepsht
was the only consistent man amongst them, ex-
. pc the gentleman who stood opposite to him (mean-
-1.•
bo. unnaelf)—(Lond laughter)—and he (the Ho-
_ ntable Baronet), if any one deserved it, really
ton,erited
the honour of being made Archbishop
' ne eatnainster, if they must have such a dignity.
j_ 'Honourable Gentleman had been consistent from
I.7ginning to end. From the beginning he had said,
• I You are wrong, you ought to have kept them down ;
have no business to make these advances."
himself,
was the principle the Hon. Baronet laid down for
d_ii.dtusneoltf..foiltoww;asbount,en,
now, in
which the Noble Lord
in 1851, the Noble Lord hadd
wuttoovered that he had been in error, and
~,_!1 therefore ready to become a partizan
tae
Honourable Gentleman opposite. In reply
the Hon. Gentleman, the Noble Lord in 1849 rpads
_se of the following words;—" You must either /give
advantages to the Roman Catholic religion, an
,uirbaoln_ from. the Pope certain other advantages in return,
treat:Z:ll'4i You must stipulate that the Pope shall not
the Y dioceses in England without the consent of
• 14tieen; or, on the other hand, you must say that
you will have nothing to do with arrangements of that
kind--that you will not consent in any way, to give any
tothority to the Roman Catholic religion in England.
itt.tty.then, you must leave the spiritual authority of the
spiritual
ebtirely unfettered. You cannot bind the Pope's
7lritual influence unless you have some agreement. For
12Pwn part, I aoi not disposed to think that it would
7ior the advantage of this country, or that it would be
7an_, able to the Roman Catholics, that we should have
,;.4_ll._treement with the Pope, by which their religious
4,72ll4ertients should be regulated. But although you
oisprevent- any spiritual authority from being exer-
htiv...."4 11, the Pope by law,y et there is no provision—no
Poo, alaPjlon- Friend could frame that would deprive the
Windtirinfluence which is merely exercised over the
11117 was a statement that they could not impose
arc or or disabilities which would have the effect of ex-
as,,t,F, '
lany control Over the minds of Roman Catholics.
srdinta Wiseman came here 'powerless, without
noeifluenee except spiritual influence, wielding
tddr‘44ll` but the' power of mind over man, and
spirit inIC himself simply to those who believed in his
and he defied the
110111 4841 tnilaenee.' ' This aggression,
tird„,,i. to prove otherwise,
apish ' '
cobsuithaeut._•Ca- Thoultinetconsisted wholly in the
of the Pope over those who believed
faith. Now he suspected that there
that, iiat- ,°0 found a person less subject to
tisk; s domination than the person who now ad-
-4'°ftsl:,-„„:"'il°o'se.—(Laughter.) It seemed to him ono
at.range phenomena with which the human
:tbounded, and for which he could not account.
-164(Zar•) The Catholics bowed to the Pope, the.
• eookil-tdists, bowed to the Conference, and the Elms-
t11;71118 to that House, but eventually that House WS3
blet oft ferenee of the kingdom, for the Queeu's supre-
!Ng leant the supremacy of the Minister, and the
tieri,lnaeY of the Minister meant the opinion of that
tto 'ej:-.(Laughter.) He (Mr. Roebuck) bowed to the
Aeetasees and would continue to do so, whatever its
hika and would
hear.) He did net arrogate to
trutEe`__` the right of judging what was the
titn. or of intruding himself on his fellow-subjects, be-
an he differed from them; and he could tell his dis-
:tiZthg brethren; whom he did not intend to join, that
*4lll Itald be careful, for they wore not yet out of the
if ts-Alalghter, and cheers.) They might find,
aa„,,Y introduced this principle with regard to
-.41.11 "Catholics, that the whip would be applied to their
Nvio, "Itt.ks—(Larighter)—and he most say that if there
it watl3' mats who would rejoice at seeing the infliction
ittis as himself.—(Laughter.) Then he had to ask,
pies s.bate no excuse for Roman Catholics on the
ritiv.t,t occasion ? Had they done anything which
gitra:',lq have subjected them to insult as a Teti-
ißon: Kly?—(Hear.) Was the Noble Lord wholly
llt},nt' of the Bequests Act? He could hardly fancy
not vas. Certain he was that Lord Clarendon was
for stsaio rant of it; neither was the Secretary of State
rte. t,hu- Colonies. He might have mistaken the
each. 'rig •of the Act, but it was quite clear he knew
Us', „Li Act "'as in existence. Now, a person comes to
talLuttrY anti calls himself cardinal, rind says he ob-
t neatas-power from the Pope. Now, were Roman
thltthelica not led to believe that they might do this if
sa:/f1i,1"4, without any Act of Parliament? for that is
Aar way of stating the case. By the Bequests
'let Commission was appointed under her Majesty's
3'Patent, and Roman Catholic Bishops acted from
listtt• to year on that Commission, and were sallow-
t,„„p_d year their different titles by the Adminis-
p,7"„,3- He held in his hand the third
rashest of the Commissioners, which contained a
their
4.3airp, of
meeting, and at one of these
flighetuits he found among the Members assembled the
t,, Hon. Mr. Justice Keating, who occupied the chair,
.71_S_-_(.traoe the Lord Primate, and his Grace the
#4o4ishop of Dublint then came the name
' all et" .` the Lord AjekbilhOp Daniel