The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-01 00:00:00

Fit'Prrficrtt

he should be ready to concur in any decision their lordships
might be disposed to come to.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that as he was the
person who, upon a former discussion upon this question, had
given his opinion respecting the manner in which the records
pf that house were kept, and particularly upon this subject;
and SS this point had been adverted to by the gentleman at the
bar, who had been misunderstood, he asought, in that part of
his address (Hear, hear), he would ventte-e. to offer a few .
observations to their lordships. It would be recollected that
the appeal out of which this question arose was one which at- •
t;:acted particularly the attention of their lordships. The
report of the judges, as their lordships would recollect, bad
been recenc.ed by a noble lord who did not belong to the legal
profession, ant: that circumstance had been adverted to by
a noble and lea.
-ned friend of his in that house. (Hear,
hear.) The subject, therefore, had attracted the public at-
tention. When he first saw the paragraph in question he
confessed he was much prprised, and he was induced
to make inquiries. The result of those inquiries was,
that, although he found the Lord Chancellor had moved
the house to confirm the judgment referred to, and although
particular proceedings were had upon that occasion, yet not
only was there no written record of till"se proceedings giving
an accurate account of them for the inform.'tion of the house or
the public, but there was a printed record sves:4ch did not give
an accurate account. Both these records, the written and the
printed, differed from each other, and both differed frees the
fact. (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to blame the noble P., nd
learned lord on the woolsack in this transaction, neither did Le
blame the gentlemen at the table of the house, but he coed
not help observing that such a state of things was productive
of great inconvenience. He meant by what he formerly said
to observe that this state of things might have misled the
gentleman at the bar. He understood that gentleman to have
referred in his address to what fell from him on a former
evening. He could only say that if he had been instrumental
in misleading that gentleman to form an erroneous judgment,
he regretted it. Nothing was further from his intention than
to cast any reflection on the noble and learned lord. If he
had entertained any opinion of that kind he should have said
so without any hesitation ; but he fully acquitted the noble and
learned lord upon that subject. He must say, however, that
the mode of keeping the records of that house, both written
and printed, was any thing but satisfactory.
The LORD CHANCELLOR wished to explain on behalf
of the clerks of the table. He need not remind their lord-
ships that whatever had been done in this case as to the mi-
nutes had not been done by him. (Hear, hear.) The mode
might be right or it might be wrong ; but he was not respon-
sible. The noble duke, perhaps, understood that, but others
did not. Upon this occasion, as upon all others, he gave no
direction either to write or to leave out any thing. But the
mode complained of was not peculiar to that house. The
same practice was followed in every court in Westminster
Hall. They must, therefore, think twice before they altered
it. The judgment was never regularly entered up on the
postea until the costs were taxed. The case might be de-
cided and reported in Barnewall and Alderson, or any other
reports, and yet the postea not finally entered until the costs
were precisely ascertained. The entry alluded to was a mere
private memorandum of the clerk of the house, and formed no
part whatever of the minutes of their lordships' house. It was
only meant as a security that the regular entry should after-
wards be made upon the journals.
The Earl of LIMERICK said that in justice to the noble
and learned lord on the woolsack, he must say that the
noble and learned lord treated with great moderation the
groundless attack that had been made upon him. It did not
seem that the noble and learned lord had done anything that
was wrong in the performance of his judicial functions. It
was the duty of the noble and learned lord to give his opinion
on the case that had come before him for judgment. He (the
Earl of Limerick) was a great friend to the safe and proper
administration of justice, and he should therefore be always
ready to protect the judicial authorities of the country in the
discharge of their duties. With respect to the individual who
had been brought to their lordships' bar, he (the Earl of
Limerick) recollected on a former occasion, when a person was
brought to the bar under similar circumstances for a breach of
privilege, that person declined to give any explanation or in-
formation whatever to their lordships, or to make any apo logy,
and that person had the advantage of receiving a very lenient
judgment, as well as having had the advocacy of the noble
and learned lord. (We understood the noble earl to
allude to the case of Mr. Lawson of the Times.) He
thought that the individual who had that day been
called to the bar had a better claim to the lenient consi-
deration of their lordships than the person to whom he had
alluded. He trusted, therefore, that the motion of the noble
and learned lord for calling him again to the bar, and ordering
his discharge after a reprimand, would be acceded to by the
house. He should be one of the last men living to sanction
the publication of any matter that might be hurtful to the feel-
ings of another; and in eupporting the motion of the noble
and learned lord his only ot'ject was to have justice adminis-
tered in mercy.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he could not
see why the noble earl opposite ( Sari Grey) should wish to
visit with a different and more severe degree of punishment a
person who might offend against the ministerial party in the
house than one who might in like mariner unjustly assail an
individual attached to the opposition side. ac trusted the noble
earl would not press his interference between the genero-
sity of the noble and learned lord on the woolsack and the in-
dividual at the bar. He should be sorry to see any difference
made between the cases of two persons who had offended
alike, because their offence applied to different parties in that
house.
Earl GREY said that he was sure their lordships would
acquit him of entertaining, any other feeling upon this occasion
than a desire to uphold the character, the dignity, and the pri-
vileges of that house. (Hear, hear.) He could have no
personal feeling whatever on the matter. He confessed that
he was surprised, often as he even had been subjected to the
attacks of the noble marquis who spoke last, that that noble
marquis should attribute to him the disposition to visit with
different degrees cf punishment any persons who might offend
agajust their lordships' privileges because they were the advo-
cates of opposite sides in that house. He did not, he confessed,
expect this imputation from the noble marquis, much as he
was opposed to him. This was a difference to which he (Earl
Grey) never for a moment gave the slightest consideration.
In the case that had been alluded to by the noble earl (the
Earl of Limerick), as well as in the present case, a breach of
the privileges of their lordships' house had been committed,
and in coming to a judgment upon either he hoped he
should not be suspected of being influenced by any other
feeling than purely a sense of justice and duty, and that
no private consideration could enter into his mind in giving
his opinion. He had but one object, namely, to maintain
the character of that house and the proper administration
of justice. Nothing. could be more necessary to the due
administration of justice than to protect the judicial authorities
against such attacks as this that had been levelled at his noble
and learned friend. On this ground chiefly it was that he
was not disposed to pass over the present case in the lenient
manner that had been suggested by the generosity of his noble
and learned friend. As to the entry that had been made in
the Journals of the house, to which so much allusion had been
made, he locked upon it as a question not to be at all consi-
dered in the present case. With respect to the other case
that had been quoted, he begged leave to say that he was not
one of those who on any occasion of this nature recommended
a severe measure of punishment. But let the house see what
was the course pursued in that case. A very atrocious libel
had been published on the noble earl opposite (the Earl of
Limerick), and it was quite impossible that the offending party
could be suffered to escape ; and the course then taken was
precisely what he recommended now, namely, that the offend-
ing party was committed to the custody of the Usher of the
Black Rod, and was not discharged until after be had pre-
sented a petition to their lordships, and had been reprimanded
at their bar. God knew he entertained no other feeling or
desire as regarded the individual at the bar than to see that
the character and privileges of their lordships were main-
tained, although be certainly looked upon the present case to
be by far the most aggravated that had been brought under
the notice of their lordships ; and he did not think that it
would stand well upon their lordships' journals if it were
passed over without the visitation of some punishment. Hav-
ing said thus much, lie was quite willing to acquiesce in the
suggestion of his noble and learned friend on the woolsack ;
but he could assure the house that he was not biassed in any
opinion he had given by a wish to deal out one measure of
justice to one side of the house more than to another.
The Marquis of CAMDEN said that he did not consider
that so atrocious an attack as this that had been made on the
noble and learned lord, without the slightest foundation, ought
to be passed over in the light manner that the noble and learned
lord had himself so generously proposed. The judges of the
land had a right to look to that house for protection, and it
would not be maintaining the independence and characters of
those high judicial functionaries if that protection was not ex-
tended to them against attacks of this nature. He did not
wish the person at the bar to be treated with any unusual de-
gree of severity, but be could not suffer him to go altogether
unpunished. He should therefore move that he be committed
to the custody of the Usher of the Black Rod.
The Earl of SHAFTE SBURY—He is already in custody.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—Yes, he is already in
custody.
The Duke of HAMILTON said that he hoped some u1te-
,..1/4n measure might be adopted that would accord with the
• 'erous disposition of the noble and learned on oolt
l-
get
and at the same time satisfy the justice loft he tease.
swancsk'adenitted on all sides, that a gross breach of privilege had
been coesunitted, and that punishment ought to follow; but,
then, their lordships should recollect that they were bound to
administer jtestice with moderation and mercy. It was the
particular requs
Ist of the noble and learned lord on the wool-
sack to the houso that their lordships would treat the indivi-
dual at the bar with' as Tittle severity as possible, and he (the
Duke of Hamilton) .hoped that the house would accede to
that request. He did n;st wish that the house should make
the eeknerous feelings of the
any concession that might ,leave even the appearance of surren-
dering any of their lordships' rights or
tprivileges ; but, as it
seemed to be the general dispos:4tio ofo. heir lordships to pass
over the present offence, he hoped'
noble and learned lord on the sveo.'sac would be indulged.
publisked every day in newspapers, and
He was not the apologist for libels of any description. The
most gross libels were
this he thought was a sort of mitigation of the offence of the
individual at the bar, who certainly was not the only person
who sent forth such publications.
The Earl of HARROWBY said that he was willing to
follow in the present case the precedent that had been quoted
by the noble earl opposite ( Earl. Grey). In that case the
person in custody was not discharged on the same day that he
was brought to the bar, but at a subsequent period. He was
kept in confinement, and was not discharged until he had
petitioned their lordship? house. There was, however, be
considered, a great difference between that case and the pre-
; tit. In that case the libel, Ocralaable and atrocious as it