The Sun.
London, England, 1802-12-15 00:00:00

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I

RML PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF PEERS.

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 14.

COUNSEL were finally heard on the Scots Appeal,
Lord KINNAIRD MATHEWSON, ViZ.— Mr.
ADAM on the part of the Respondent in reply.--
After which their Lordships, on the Motion of the
Lord CHANCELLOR, postponed judgment thereon
till Friday.
The Bills bfought up yesterday from the Com-
mons, among which was the Malt Tax Bill, were
read a second time, and committed.for to-morrow.
Their Lordships were ordered to'be summoned on
the occasion. _ _ _

... _ .
~
Two Private. Bills were read a. third time and
passed ; and two other. Private Bills brought up
from the Commons by Mr. BApW IN and others,
were. read a first time. _ _

The Irish Militia Bill went through a Commit,
tee of the whole House, Lord .WALsINGH,AM in 'the
Chair, and was ordered to be reported to-morrow.
Mr. REYNOLDS presented. at the Bar certain
Mcumentsfrom the Court of Exchequer in Ireland,
relative to the Cause of STUART ,Z). YOUNG ; which
were ordered to be. laid on the Table.

Some routine Business was disposed of, after
which their Lordships adjourned till to..morrow.
A number of Peers attended, but the Discussion
expeatd this evening is, we understand, proposed
for another Stage Of the Bill.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUESDAY, DEC. 14.

'A Nrw Writ was ordered to he issued for the
Borough of Midhurst, in the room of SAMUEL
S:,ITTH, Esq. who made his ,eleElion for .the Town
of Lciester.

_
Au Account was presented of the sums of money
advanced ptirsuant to Addresses of that House,
which was ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. BURDON moved for leave to bring up a
Petition from the Ship.owners of. the City of Dur-
ham, praying for the Repeal of the Tonnage Duty
Bill. In doing this, he said, he was aware that
the statement made in the Petition did not corre,

spond with the flattering account of our Commerce
lately given by the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER. But in that he could not have sufficiently
attended to the regulations lately Made by our
great .Rivals in their Navicration Laws; and soon
after the Recess, he intended to make a Motion
actilated to afford some information which might
be more relied upon. He did not blame the Right
Non. Gentleman for resisting such applications as
that contained in this Petition, till the case was
completely made out ; but nothing was more evi-
dent than that the grievante here complained of, was
of a nature which may operate very,dangerously to
our Commerce.
_ _ _

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the statement he had oh a former occasion
tnadeof the increased trade of the POrt of London,
was not with a view to exhibit a case hostile to the
wishes of the Petitioners, but to make a general re-
presentation of the growipg state of our Commer-
cial Prosperity. It would not be fair to draw a
general inference from the Shipping •of Liverpool,
or any particular place. In consequence of what
he had heard said of the decrease of Liverpool Ship-
ping, hi thought it his duty to set on foot a-parti-
cular inquiry, and the result was, that on a corn-'
parison, it was found that the ships entering in-
wards in 18or was 1391, and in the year 18oz
was 1843, being an increase of 452. In the
clearings outwards the number of English ships
was 1694 in the year 1801, and in the year tBoz
it was z 062. The foreign ships were, in the former
year, 703, and in the latte:r had decreased to 461.
The tonnage inwards in the former was 179,351
in the latter 324,859. The foreign tonnage at
these corresponding periods was 703 for the•former
;year, and 461 for the latter.' The total of the ton-
nage for 18ot was 22,696 ; in 1802, 255,336.
The ships might indeed be justly supposed to make
a greater number of trips, in time. of Peace than in
periods of War, brit making evt ry allowance anti
dedation, the statement he •,procured, shewed that
the increased quantity of Shipping employed since
the Peace was 2 ci,obo ; but taking it only for the
four Ports of London, Bristol, Liverpool, and Hull,
• the calculation would .be very moderate which
should place it at'no more than to,ooo, exclusive-
ly of the other parts of the United Kingdom. In
reference to this subje6l, he did not see any neces-
sity for a specific Motion, as an A& of Parliament,
had already enjoined that there be laid before -the
Hotie an Account of the increase of the Consolidat-
ed Fund wi:h the charges upon it ; the amount of
the Taxes and the-charges upon them ; the-tonnage.
of Shi',Tping, their nuMbers ; and the start of the
Public Debt.--.-All which must come before the
House without having recourse to any specific: MO.,
: tion fo- that purpose. .
General. GASCOYNE thought, that whatever
- respeA may be due to any Statement of the, Mini-
: ster, yet the samerelince was not to be had 'upon.
_ a Pa)er which he was .piea",ed to take out of his
orker, as upon public Parliamentary Documents
with the explanation given, he might be priVately,
satisfied, but could not admit its authenticity when
• afling -in bef•ilf of the great Commercial, City, for.
had the honour of being a RepreSentative:
Nothing was more clear than that the- West. India
Trade, the most.capital.of all our branches-of Com-,
itierce, was not in .a prosperous situation. The
Minister 'himself was so sensible of this, .that he
understood it was his intention to afford them some
, The Petition's on the Table froth different

earts of the Country were, in themselves, sufficient
vidence that the Carrying Trade was in a.srate of
cAsiderable depression. No person could be ig-
norant that the increase of British Shipping in the,
year 180 z, was not a fair criterion, compared with'
the decrease in the former year by the suspension of
the Navigation Aft, the difficulty of sailing with,:
out convoy, even to F'oreign vessels, the number,
of Transports employed by Government, whicii
made no entry, and various other reasons which
must- suggest themselves to men acquainted Wi/rh
Cornmercial Subjefts. The Hon. Gentleman, said,
that, he 414 not think_higitqlf txeated with cat-1(164r

by the Minister, in obeying the instruaions which
he received from his Constituents, ana in doing

which, he had said nothing which could be thought
of a personal nature. The information brought
forward by the CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
might, for any thing he knew, have been obtained
in a surreptitious manner ; and ,should the House
enter into the investigation,. it would be proved,
that the Foreign Shipping had increased at least
two-thirds, and, that the Shipping Interest was so
depressed, that not a single vessel in the Merchant
Service was now building in the whole of the

River ThaMes.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
explained, that every thing he had said wasdidated.
only by a sense pf duty, and that he should haye
said, without any regard to persons, exa6lly the
same, had the observation come from any other

quarter.
Mr. ATKINS observed, that there were parti-
cular reasons why the trade of Liverpool might
have declined since the conclusion of the Peace.
After the conquest of the Foreign Colonies; Liver-
pool, with great spirit, took the lead in supplying
them, and since they had been ceded, it was not to
be wondered at 'if that branch of its commerce
were diminished. .
Mr. DENT expressed himself highly pleased
with the representation lately made of the general
prosperity of the United Kingdow ; but could not
avoid noticing, -the dispositions every where made
by our Rival to overset us. He understood that
Commercial Consuls had been sent by the French
Government to Glasgow, Bristol, Dublin, and other
places, and most .of those were composed of En
gineers and General Officers. Thus circumstanced,
it was impossible that we could, shew too much pre.
ference for the commercial concerns of the country.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS said, 'it was an un-
founded idea to suppose that the West India Islands
were likely to he ruined for want of Commerce
with this Country. It was
,equally erroneous to
say, that'the River Thames was not now demon-
strating the Prosperity of our Trade. He had some
right to be considered as tolerably informed on this
subjel, and would 'venture to assert, that Merchant
'Ships of all sizes and descriptions, were not only
construaing, but daily launched, in the different
dock-yardi upon the River Thames. During the
whole course of the War there was 'ha set of men
made more money than the ship.owaiers. They
concealed their profits, butbrotight:forward their
losses, the latter of which:bore no kind of propor-
tion to the former. He did not altogether blame
them for this, as when it was known that there
"was a great surplus in the Revenue, it was natural
enough for every man to wish to' get rid of those
taxes which bore most heavily upon them ; but
that consideration did not justify any misrepresen-
tation to that House. '
Mr. VANSITTART. reminded the House, that
the present question was only ,whether the Petition
should lie upon the Table. It was produced by
alledged causes and effects, which to'him seemed to
have no existence in reality. it,was true,. that all
Petitions. to that House, and more especially from
such a respetlable class of men, should be weighed
with great attention. But he thought tha't Mem-
bers had not a fair right to avail themselves of all
Petitions presented to make general statements,. 'go
into details, and 'prejudge the real question. He
conceived his Right- Hon, Friend to be perfedly
right in drawing a comparison between the,years
18ox and 18oz, as no year since the Revolution
was more favourable to British Shipping than the
former, and would therefore answer every purpose
of the argument.
General GASCOYNE', Mr. VANSITTART, and Mr.
ButtooN, spoke severally in explanation, after which
the Petition was ordered to lie on the Table.
The Bill for appointing Commissioner: 'to in-
quire .and examine into the Frauds, Abuses, and
Irregularities, which have been, or: may be, com-
mitted in the Navy,' &c. being brought up anti
read a first time, the question belt% put for the
second reading,
Admiral BERKELEY said, he hoped to hear
some explanation of a mistake which it was ap-
prehended he laboured under, yesterday. He did
say, that he apprehended the Admiralty were in
possession of power sufficient 'to appoint Commis..
sionera to' examine into these -abuses, 'without
coming to that House. An Honourable' Gentle- •
man then said, there was no such thing, without
assigning. any -reason whatever for saying jor.
He had not then seen the Patent of the Lords 47
the Admiralty Board,' so that he dOubted whether
lie had not 'been under some mistake, but he'
had this day examined the Patent, tli.; result
of which was a convidion in his 'own 'mind
now, that he'was coireCi- in :trvilist he stated yester-
day on the subjett of the PoWerof the Board to
which be had alluded, _that the Admiralty certainly'
had the Power, and that Ithey had it to a much'
greatee degree Olio he had before apprehended, they
had ; :however, that was all perfeCtly done away,.
by what. was said yesterday on the necessi;y
this Measure, a necessity which he did not by any
means pretend to controvert. He believed it. was•
pettedly necessary. that .the House should, entertain.
this Bill, 'for that it was fit that the Power it tended.
to delegate, should be lodged with Commissioners
chosen, for that purpose ; he would, however, re-
mind the House of a saying of a Noble Lord,
which, although a joke, was full of strong sense
and Meaning, of the strength and importance of the
Admiralty Board--" That the Navy Board was
hewn out of the Admiral Tree." He did not use
this expression with a view to oppose this Bill,
.but. merely to justify himself in the assertion he
made respeding the original Power of the Board
of Admiralty, and he said it alsO by way of caution,
lest some of the Public 'Papers should mistake his
meaning, and consequently miSrepresent what he said.
He knew not how Reports of the Debates in Par-
liament got into the Papers, but they certainly did
so somehow or other. He did not complain of the
prattice ; but this he was entitled to say, that when
they did get into Papers,. care shOuld he taken that
they were not inaccurate-,that they should toot con-
vey a meaning which a as never intended by the per.
sons speaking,thetn. The matter he had to com,
plain of was in a Paper -which he himselflook iris
and which he hdieved generally to be a very gopd
Paper.

Tle SPEAKER.--Order! Unquestionably If the

Hon..MeMber means to complain of a breach of Pri-
vilege in whatp he lineages to be done, iris compe-
tent to. him' to read every word, and, then to move
a Question-of-Privilege upon it, for the Debates of
this House are not to be printed in Papers ; but if
the Hon. Member does not mean to move any thing

upon it, it-is not competent to him to call
_the at--
tention of the House, to the matter.
Admiral .BERKELEY said, he wished to read
the Paper,.and he wished to ask the Chair .far as- -
sistance, how be was to proceed.
The SPEAKER.--L--" I am in the judgment of
the House. I apprehend that: if any person pre-
sumes to print in his Paper any of the Debates of
this House, it' can only be brought before this
House by complainnig of it as abreach of Privilege,
and that to state.it with any other view is perfed-
1y disorderly." • .
i Admiral BE that he must submit
to the Chair : he said that the reason he had men-
tioned this was, that being on terms of the most cor-
dial friendship with a gallant Officer, he was very
much hurt that the° sentiments expressed by another
Member, concerning that gallant Officer (Sir J. B.
WARREN, as we understood), had been set down
for his, Admiral BERKELEY'S. The expressions
might be well enough from the person who deliver-
ed them, but not from him, who had se, sincere a..
regard and true friendship for the. gallant Officer,
a friendship, in which he hoped to live and die.
He said this the more ardently, as. he,was. aware
that the gallant- Officer to whom he allUded, had,
at present, no other means nf knowing, what was
passing in Parliament, but through the medium of
the Newspapers. As to the course pointed out to
him, of, complaining of this mistake as a Breach of
Privilege, he knew that was in his power ; but it
was a power which he did not, feel inclined to make
'Use of, for he was much too great a friend to the
Liberty of the Press, to complain of a mistake in
it, although this, was 'one which he very much
lamented.
11.1 r. COOPE42 said, that on the subjea`now be
fore the House, he thought i: his duty to deliver
' his sentiments. It had been asked, why the Ad.
miralty should come to Parliament fur a Power
which they had already ? That was not correaly
stated,..and that objection had been answered, yes.
terday, very ably by the Minister, by saying, that
the Power vested in the Navy Board, was not suf-
ficient for the purpose intended ; and, he added,
that sufficient 'Power should be given to the Com-
.mittee for that purpose, Indeed, if the Powers of
the Navy Board were five tithes greater than they
are, he thought this courser a fair' one. Had they ,
not, in a fair and' manly manner, come forward to
the House and said, " There are a great ,many
Abuses in the Navy Department, and we call on
you, as the Guardians of the Interests of the Coun-
try, to administer the Remedy ?" , He wished to
know, whether any measure could, be mdre dirdt,,
honourable, and fair, th4n this ? He alluded to,
some insinuations which had been cast out against,
a Noble Lord, high in Office, upon the use of Pa-
tronage, If there was any charge against that
Noble Lord, let it he'made fairly ; let the question
be brought to view in a manly and fair manner;
but let not the House compromise its dignity, by
listening to insinuations and allegations, that were
I made without the shadow of proof to support them

But what. Was the capital crime imputed to Admi-
nistratioo ? Why, we were told that a gallant Of-
ficer,. an Admiral, who, during the late War, con.
duded.hims.elf with great gallantry in the Service of
his King and Country, had been appointed Arnim-
sailor to the Court of Sr. Petersburgh. If merit
was to 'be imputed to a man as. a crime, he ad-
mitted the complaint in its full extent :—but it
was said, it 'was very unusual to send. Mini-
rals, or. any Naval Officers, on 'Embassies :—,He
saw nothing in the objeaion, unless incapacity to
fill the,Diplotnatie Station could be proved. Upon
the %v,hale matter, he approved of this Bill as a part
of t'he general system of the present AdminiStration,
which vas that of Vigilance, Moderation, Econo.
my, and Corredion of Abuses. If these were to be
the grounds of reproach to the Administration, they
should have hiS support as long as they continued to
commit suchlike enormities. ". .
, Mr. GARTAISHORE said, the Admiralty had
power over Boards so as to examine theM, but they
had nothing-to do with the investigation of these
matters which they were about to submit to the
Committee.
_ Admiral BERKELEY:said a few words in explana-
tion.
Mr. JARv IS made. an' able' speech in support of
the Bill, and explained the necessity of its intro-
dadion, as Well-as the main objeas its provisions
embraCed, After which the Bill was read a second ,
time, -and ordered to be committed to a Committee
of the whole House to-morrow.
Mr.- ALEXAND-Elt brought up: the Report of the
Committee of Supply. The Resolutioos were all
read and agreed to. ,
Mr. VANWTTART moved that the House do re-
solve itself into a Committee of the whole House,
to consider- of the -Ads •for preventing' the Im-
portation Of Malt from Ireland, &c. the several
Ads of Parliament upon this subjed were referred.
to the said Committee.—;-The House having re_.
solved itself into a Committee accordingly,
Mr. V 'INUIT:MT stated,-that this was an im-
portant subjea: it was not now the objet to make
a general permanent provision, but to provide an
immediate remedy to an inconvenience which was
felt. By the annual 'Malt mt,, all the provisions
of the. Ancient Statutes were renewed, and one of
the Ads was so far back as the time of Queen
Anne., The Malt Aa past subsequent to the Ad
for.iregulatiog the importation of Provisions, and
by that Aa, persons bringing Malt from Ireland,
uncter a_Proclamation in Council,—recited 'by the
Ad; were under a great inconvenience, for the
Malt wassubjed to seizure, under the provisions of
some of these Ads. The object now was, to per-
mit Malt to be imported here from Ireland, upon
the system of the Countervailing Duties, as already
established by the Union. But this,, he desired to
be considered a's only a temporary 'Measure, A
permanent System was hereafter to he considered of
with due deliberation.
Mr. CORRY observed that the sub. jed of Conk
was reserved for future re&ulation Uniun

Compatt, And therefore there could be no objettios
to this measure. But it was right the Public should
know that this measure arose from the manner in
which the Proclamation in. Council was worded, it
being made to apply only to . the importation of
Malt from Ireland to, England, and therefore the
present measure applied only to that objet. The
Proclamation for importing Malt into -Ireland from
England was differently worded, and therefore this
measure could not affeEt that branch of the Case.
He said. this, lest some persons might subjesEt them-
selves to forfeitures, by supposing that it applied:
to both these points, whereas it applied only to one
of them—namely, to that of importing Malt from
Ireland to England.
The Resolution was then put and carried to this
effeet, " That it is the opinion of -this Committee,
it is expedient to permit the Importation of Malt
made in Ireland into Great Britain, for a time to
be limited."

This was followed *by another Resolution, for
providing the Countervailing Duty upon such Malt.
Mr. CORRY 'then proposed a Resolution, That
it is the opinion of this Committee, that Seed i
Corn be permitted to be exported from Great Bri-
tain to Ireland for a time to be limited.
Mr. V ANS ITT ART said, that this was a very
important:business, and could only be for a time to be
limited, otherwise it might be the subject of much
jealousy, and even of ill use in the practice in the
event of a scarcity.'—Care should be taken that if
was for. Seed only that the Corn should be exported.
Mr. CORRY said, that this matter was to be
watched with the utmost vigilance, and a stria ad:-
herence to the condition was to be protected under
very: severe penalties of confiscation and other _ri-
gours, and the whole was to continue only for a
limited time, just sufficient to send over to Ireland
a sufficient quantity of Coin for Seed from this Corm.
try, which was of a much superior quality to that
'Which grew there at present. This was a measure
in which both Countries were deeply interested, in-
asmuch. as Ireland might hereaizer become a sort of
granary for this Country. •The whole matter was
hereafter to be fully discussed, and then some per-
manent provision Might be made.
The Resolution was agreed to.
Sir W. PULTENRY brought up a Petition from, a
Town, the name of which we could'not hear, bur it
was in the county of Salop, stating_ the incon-
ieniencies which certain Maltsters feel tin,ler,' the
provisions of the late At of Parliament, auttit'l7-
ing relief. Ordered to be laid on the Table.i:_
Report of the Dublin Baking, Bill
brought up, read, and agreed to.
The Resolutions on the Drawback on Sugars ;i.'
England were read and agreed to.
Mr. CORRY moved Resolutions exactly similar
to them, on Sugars in Ireland, putting the trade he'
tween the two Countries exactly on the samc
footing.—Resolutrons past.'
The Report on Expiring Laws relative to Coro
was brought up and agreed to. -
The Bill for suspending Prosecutions on •some,
antient Statutes, as far back As the time of Ric HARO
11. for penalties on account of working certain Wool‘i,
len Manufactures, &c. was read a first ti:tte, and or'
;decd to be read a second "time to-morrow_
Deferred the other Orders of the Day.--rAdjourn''
ed till to-morrow.

:~

MAILS.
Du;*
ARRIVED.
Holland o
Hamburgh o - - -
Lisbon 1 -

PRICE OF STOCKS,
THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK'.
Consols - - 72, OIDDiUM -- ) 2 disc

THE SUN.

SOLZM QUIS DICER& FALSUIS AUDZAT

LONDON, DECEMBER t,, IS°7'

THE Statement made by the CHANCELL°'
the EXCHEQUER last night, on the discussion of the
,
question respeding the Petition from ,the SI"P,
Owners of the City ol Durham, affords an 301'7
clonal, and most satisfadory proof, of the ftourisl
state and increasing prosperity of the Commerce °,-
this Country.

AFTER our Paper was put to• Press yesterday, ,s
received the Paris Papers to the tzth inst. II it
confidently stated, that the Journey-of the Flg9-
CONSUL into Belgium, will take place tte‘t
sto
ary, and that after having visited An, were, Bras

and Ghent, he will proceed to. Mentz. ns
The French Government has appointed Citiz-i 1
tiCi
BARTHELEMY, DESMEUNIERS, RCEDEREg
Al.fe
FoucHE, to confer with the Deputies from Sa.
=viand, who'are nearly all assembled in F'ari4.
01
The Moniteur notices the first presentati°
•lio
Foreign Ladies to Madame Bowa NRT' ' .
Dutchess of DoRt,ET., and several English Ladles'

were presented.
The Funds arc 52. 85.

—......—.—. I, VP
This morning arrived a Mai/ from Lisvi_°,,
brought to Falmouth by the ifialsin.bax* ,l'c''''
~..-; . . •
in twelve days. rl'%l' ,,
Yesterday the box R of Yo toc Pt'
odg•etlt'he7eritaSi*
CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rode
James's Park. ' r r"
Mr. PITT will continue at Bath till air', Ito'
holidays, where he has derived the most co'
be
benefit from the use of the Waters. that t
It is reported, we know not how trolY' •,,i„,cer-
Earl of CHATHAM is about to ° reign
tilt! 'Y
Generalship of the Ordnance. he 13 •"' A
The LottD MAYOR yesterday orderer. t
to be continued at. 91d. the Quarter° Lo3i.

141i.iiiI, NEW.s.

PORTSMOUTH, DEC. Lt.

AltitivEo His Majesty's rt Mahon,,
ip•P o from
'`l ernseY ; the Charlotte, PEARsON, from Sunder_
land;
Union, SPARROW, from Bristol; Eggar,
SILVER, from Exeter.
Sailed,-the Un;ty STILES, for London ; Two Bro.
'hers, TANDALL, for Sunderland ; Sans Souti,Fort-
lAlNE, for Isigny
Came into Harbour, His Majesty's Ship Arglhion
41c1 Alcmene, to refit.
Arrived the Pluto Sloop of War, from New..

FALMOUTH, DE C. 12.

44IvEn this day, the ilia/sin:ham Packet,
p4‘os
ttTs, in twelve days from Lisbon. This
riteket sailed with Mail from Lisbon two days prior
toe the Prince Adolphus Packet, which arrived on
9th inst. ; but by the strong northerly winds
vil
Ich prevailed on the Coast at the time of her
jf,aln
g, prevented her non-arrival. The Prince of
ales
Packet
was to sail from Lisbon with Mails
for England , on the gtn instant.
Sailed last evening, the King George Packet,
N;,
"s"NBE, with two Mails (30th ult. and 7th
Inst*) for Lisbon, and the Leicester Packet,
Sit"", with Mails of the Ist inst. for Jamaica
and Barbadoes.
Sailed this day, the brig Basset, Capt. PuRCIIASEi
tin, iScc. for London ; the Mary, ATKINS, in
Cilasr, for Dartmouth ; the Schooner Miners,
'Altars, in ballast, for Liverpool, to take in bale
""c3c4s, &c. for this port ; the Fox, BRAY, with
l''llehards, for Leghorn ; the Two Friends,N.TICHAEL,
!with fruit, &c. for Plymouth; and the Pendower,
4kt.t.ARD, with groceries, &c. for Penzance.
The Pr;nce Adolphus Packet is appointed to take
out the Mail of the 14th inst. for Lisbon, and will
sail on Saturday next.

DEAL, DEC. 14.

ARRIVED from Portsmouth, the Adder Gun-ship.
Skilled for Sheerness, the Monkey Gun-brig ; and Portsmouth, the Deptford Navy Transport.
Remains, the Betsey (Country Ship),. for India,
Ind a lirge Fleet outward-bound.