The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-04 00:00:00

..

of slavery away. Indeed he was willing to postpone all
other bu-iness what-ver, in order to set rlsrough this most
momentous struggle. The case of St. Domingo present, d
an awful example of the daneer of delay, after giving goal
hopes f freedom as were now held out to the West Indian
neeroes. How was the insurrection there crushed? The
slaves had rec-ived their freedom by a vote of the National
Convention of France—they were paltered with. There
were three conflicting parties in the island, the Catholics,
the Roya'ists, and the Republicans. The Catholic priest.
hood was so incensed with the infidel Republicans, that
they, one and all, roused up a spirit of insurrection, and it
was, in fact, the whites alone who caused the dreadful
scenes which subsequently occurred in the island. How
stool the case of Sr. Domingo now? In her Parliament
the most eloqtrent man, the leader of the noposition, was
a free negro, a barrister--her courts were filled with negro
pleaders, arid one of the mast authentic and esteemed bot i-
nical works now extant wos written by a pure negro. So
much for intellect. Let him point out that magnificent man
Toussaint l'Ouverture as a specirn.n of their heroism and
gre itness of mind, and lie would justify the example. Now
he opposed the Right Hon. Secretary on the resolutions,
because he thought that he had unnecessarily hampered his
main intention with unnecessary details, which might be
easily subsequently arranged. The vote which he would
give was simply whether freedom or slavery should mark
the condition of the negro. The probationary term now
proposed ought to have commenced in 1823, for it was a
natural sequitur upon Mr. Canning's resolutions. The
nest oes ought now to be free, for the man who was able
to bear, as they had done, a state of slavery, was in every
way fitted for freedom. The Hon. and Learned Member
next proceeded to urge several objections to Mr. Stanley's
plan for apprenticing the negroes, and remarked, that the
West Indies, under that arrangement, would exhibit the
extraordinary scene of a state of society with only two con-
ditions of men—namely, masters and apprentices. He
next proceeded to animadvert upon the impossibility of
making stipendiary magistrates look after the quantum of
labour executed by each of the 357,000 negroes in
Jamaica, to take that island as an instance of the
working of the plan, and he ridiculed the idea of compen-
sating the planter, because, as he asserted, free labour
was cheaper than slave labour, in all but large
and unbroken extents of country. The Learned and Hon.
Member next proceeded to draw a vivid picture of the
condition of negroes in the free state, and, by several illus-
trations, endeavoured to show that the free negro would

work where the slave was idly disposed, and he quoted
the case of the 1,500 apprenticed Government negroes at
the Cape of Good Hope, to show that during their state
of apprenticeship they were useless ; bat the moment
they were freed they were altogether different, and be-
came industrious and trustworthy servants. The experi-
ment of emancipation on a grand scale had been tried by
the great liberator Bolivar, who found that the emanci-
pated slaves as Cagadores under his command, rushed to
the cannon's mouth, and joined with the enemy in the
charge of the bayonet reckless of life, and ea4er for glory.
In Mexico the Government had altogether abolished
&Avery, yet no slaughter of the whites, no confisca-
tion of their property followed. He thought now he
had made out a case which showed that there was
no perfect security or safety in any thing short of
perfect, and complete, and immediate etnancipa-
tion. _ . _

The evidence of Mr. Taylor showed that it was

for the interest of the planter that the slave should have
his freedom, as he acknowledged that when taskwork had
been given, the slave, for a mere trifle of wages, did thrice
as much as an ordinary field slave. And why ? He was
not idling over his work till the sun went down, but
eagerly attempting to accomplish si much labour as should
make his home comfortable. Were these poor creatures
not of the same flesh and sinews as ourselves ? Were
they not indebted for their existence to the same Creator,
-ent into this world for the same objects, gifted with the
Caine immortal spirit, redeemed by the blood of the same
Saviour, and was it to become in these days a question
and a doubt whether they were entitled to the first birth-
right of mankind, freedom ?—(Hear.) He would fear-
lessly deny what had been so ofte❑ asserted, that a negro
could be property. He would only draw the attention
of the Hon. Nlember for Kidderminster and others to the
distinction between natural and political rights. He would
put a case—uppo-e that Hon. Member was taken pri-
soner by a corsair, and sold for a slave, should he remon-
strate and sty he had primitive as well as national
rights which interdicted his being considered as a
slave, he would doubtless be told there was a law in
that country making him a slave, and thirty-nine lashes
would he doubtless his least reward for talking reason
to his master.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There was no
doubt it was law perhaps in his mind, and that of every
Mufti in Algiers—(Laughing)—but in defence of the na-
tural rights to liberty of British subjects our fleets had
been commissioned, and justly and heroically to blow up
the batteries, and huge mounds, and the proud Goletta of
the Barbarian, and teach him there were rights which no
law of any nation under Hea►en could wrest from human
beings.—(Cheers.) Let this Legislature avoid the ex-
ample of the hypocrites of the free and liberal country of
America, which retained the property in slaves, when they
i❑ their own manifesto put at its head, when in rebellion
against this country, the famous maxirn—" That all men
were born equ d and free." Let us bear, said he, no more
of breedirig farms for slaves on one hand, with their con-
signment to early graves t y a disgraceful policy on the
other ; but let us, even across the wide Atlantic, pour
into the ear of the miscreant slave-owner, that we scorn
his hypocritical example, and will not debase ourselves by
being the friends of this foul crime against man and
against the Almighty.—(Hear.) Regardless of conse-
quences, let us be " just and fear not."
An HoN. Ala:mama, whose name we could not learn,
argued at some length, that the character and habits of the
slaves in the West Indies had suffered so long from neglect
and want of education, that they were not fitted to receive
the benefits of freedom at present.
Lord SANDON professed lie never had been an advo-
cate of slavery. His objections had always been urged
against any improvident and unguarded project for eman-
cipation. When it was conceded by the advocates of the
West India interests that the time was come for an imme-
diate abolition of slavery, he felt it was unwis-, nay, impo-
litic, to attempt there, or elsewhere, to keep alive the
popular excitement against those without whom the pro-
posed measure of emancipation could not be effected. He
entomoated the several parties interested deeply in this
adjustment of the question of negro slavery. The first
was, the planters themselves ; the second, the manufac-
turers of this country, who wet e, he believed, little able .to
dispense with their proportion of the profit derivable from
the trade with these colonies ; the third was, the shipping
interest. It would appear that, taking with these other
parties who were dependent on the welfare of the West
India proprietors residing in this country, that persons
contributing to the extent of near 8,000,0001. were inte-
rested in the well being of the West India colonies. The
amount of produce in the last year, for example, was
7,857,000/. ; the exports from hence were 2,500,000/. ;
the freight and sale came to 1,600,0001., which, with
sorne other small sums we could not hear, he calculated as
making a total of 4,659,000/. ; leaving a balance in
favour of the produce of these colonies of ours
of 3,198,000/.—(Hear, bear, hear.) But it was
doubtful in his mind if the circuitous trade to the colo-
nies, and the sum of about 3,000,000/. spent by the
abseentee proprietors of estates of those colonies i❑ this
city, and in almost every village of England, did not
more tha❑ equal the balance in favour of the produce of
those colonies. Our export to the colonies was nearly
3,000,0001. ; could the manufacture's afford to lose this,
or any part of it, in the crippled state of trade at pre-
sent ? There was not less than 250,000 tons of our best
shipping, it should be well recollected, engaged in the
direct trade to those colonies, and about 80,000 tons in
that between them and our North America❑ colonies.
Were they prepared to throw back for employment upon
the general shipping interest, already so embarrassed for
adequate opportunities of employment, 330,000 tons
of shipping, now more regularly and profitably engaged
than any class of our mercantile navy ?—( Hear, hear.)
A blow given to this interest, too, would be felt by
the warehousing interest generally, and more particu-
larly in that of Liverpool. He had to submit to the
Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies a proposition
whieh, if agreed to, would meet the wishes of the
West India proprietors. That morning the Members of
that House, who were interested in the question by being
holders of property in the West Indies, had held a meeting
at his residence ; and, after considerable discussion, they
had adopted resolutions, or rather a modification of the re-
solutions proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. They
thought it desirable to secure the concurrence in these re-
solutions of the great West India interests, and upon sub-
mitting the resolutions to the acting Committee of that
hotly, hicluding the Deputies from Jamaica, they met with
their decided approval. He should', therefore, state them
to the House as resolutions which, if adopted, would
secure the co-operation of the West India planters in the
cause of abolition. In the first instance, they adopted
the first resolution of the Right Hon. Secretary for
the Colonies to the effect that it was expedient that
an entire and effectual abolition of slivery in the colonies
should take place.—(Hear, hear.) The next part of the
proposition he had to submit was, that there be given to
the West Indian proprietors, towards compensation for their
losses by the measure, a sum nut exceeding :20,000,000/.
and that, in order to secure a perfect co-operation on the
part of the proprietors, a further sum, not exceeding ten

' millions, should be advanced by way of loan, in order to
relieve them from their immedia,e embarrassments. He
would shortly state the grounds upon which these resolu-
tions were conceived to be nothing more than just to the
slave owners. By the propo.ii ion of the Right Hon. Se-
cre,ai y the slave owners were to give up one-fourth of the
time of their slaves—in other words, one-fourth of their
wages, for their food, lodging, and clothing could be con-
sidered only as wages—and at the end of a given time they
were to lose their fee simple in them as property altoge-
ther. The annual prouee of dive labour altogether, in-
eluding agricultural produce, as well as that which was
eventually exported, could not be estimated at less than
6 11)0.0001. Of this they were to give up one-fourth, or
1,500,000/. Taking this sum for twelve years, their
es would amount to 16,000,000/. At the expiration
of that period the greater part of the proprietors would
have no property whatever in the West Indies; and he
thought, therefore, that 20.000,0001. was not too
large a sum to give in the shape of compensation, and by
such a gift the cooperation of the West India pro-
prietors would secured. With respect to the loan,
it was asked for upon these grounds. A great
pmportioa of the property in the West Indies was
deeply mortgaged, and the loan of ten millions
was necessary to ease the present embarrassmerys of the
proprietors, so as to enable them to act with spirit in fur-
therance of the views of the Government. The Noble
Lord then proceeded to contend that there could he no
risk of losing the ten millions, because the property of the
West India proprietors was ample security for its repay-
went, and would be still more valuable after the additional
capital of twenty millions was invested in its cultivation.
The whole of the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman was
an experiment, and if the experiment should fail, surely
ten millions would be but a small sum to relieve the
planters front the ruinous consequences which could not
fail to follow. He should not attempt to press the House
to a division upon any of the resolutions of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, for those who were interested in the
subject were but a fractional part of that House—in all,
perhaps, not above fify or sixty Members; but those who
were with him would seek to make an impression on the
justice of the Government, rather than seek to tight,
riot against the House alone, but against what lie must
term the honest keling of the whole country upon a sub-
ject in which all their feelings of humanity and of reli-
gion were enlisted.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. FITZGERALD said that the question really was,
whether th,re did or did not exist a right of property in
slaves ?

One or two HoN. NIEMBERS then rose at the same
moment, but

Lord SANDON bad forgotten to read the resolutions
with which he intended to have concluded. The Noble
Lord then read them in detail, arid the substance of them
was, that in the opinio❑ of this Committee effective mea-
sures should be adopted for the abolition of colonial slavery,
care being bad that while such measures shoal promote
the interests of the negioes they should not prove injurious
to the interests of the planters. The next material point
in the resolutions was, that a sum of 20,000,0001. ster-
ling should he granted as compensation to the proprietors
of slaves, and in order to facilitate the object in view, that
a sum of 10,000,0001. be granted to the Colonial Legisla-
tures to secure their co-operation.
The CHAIRMAN said the resolutions could not now
be put, there being already an amendment before the
Committee.

Lord SANDON then said he would move them after-
wards.

Admiral FLEMING was ready to give his cordial sup-
port to the measure brought forward by his Majesty's Go-
vernment. When in South America he had received from
the Bishop of Venezuela a document which stated that not
less than 436 sug it plantations were carried on there by
free labour, and thit no slaves were employed except by
the English. As to the Colonial Legislatures, they were a
mere mockery of representation. The Assembly of Ja-
maica consisted of 37 members, 35 of whom had no con-
nexion whatever with the island, being either pettifogging
attorneys or speculative merchants. He bad been told that
their whole property put together would not, if sold, pro-
duce as much as would pay 2s. 6d in the pound of the
amount of their debts. He hoped that the whole functions
of the West India body would be suspended ; for, unless
that was roue, no measure of abolition could be carried.
Of all the plans proposed, he thought that of the Right
Hon. Seer,tary for the Colonies was the best, and that of
the Noble Lord the worst. He trusted the question would
be carried as soon as possible, and that in the mean time,
before the long interval of 12 years should have elapsed,
the planters would come to some arrangement with their
slaves. He feh perfectly satisfied that the measure would
become the liw of tire land in Jamaica immediately after
it received the sanctio❑ of Parliament.

Mr. GLADSTONE said he had to complain of a
statement made on a former night by a Noble Lord (Lord
Howick, as we understood), to the effect that profit was
increased in the colonies by the decrease of human life.
The Noble Lord had made that statement without
i.
conde-
scending
to give any previous ntonation of it to the two
sons of a gentleman whom it materially concerned, though
be had a full opportunity of doing so. Now he (Mr.
Gladstone) could give him the name of an estate in the
West Indies of which his father was the proprietor, and
on which the increase of profit was small, while the
increase of population was comparatively large. The
name of the estate was Montrepot. There were 550 per-
sons employed upon it when it came into his father's
hands, and of these nut more than 140 were aged and
infirm. It might, however, be sail that infirmity was
brought on by overwork ; but this he denied to be the
fact. The Hon. Gentleman, in the course of some further
observations, proceeded to combat the watement made by
the Hon. Member for Weymouth upon those points, and
said that in all manufactures there was something which
tended to curtail the period of human life as well as
in the manufacture of sugar. It had been treated
as if it were an isolated case, but he believed it
held good in all the colonies that the tone of
morals amongst Englishmen there was lower than in this
country. It emancipation proceeded upon any other
ground than in exact harmony with the character of the
slaves it must be ruin. Tnis Legislature h.d done all in
its power to make the slaves property. and by the conse-
quences of its own acts it must abide. They had legalised
toe property, and were ther. fore bound to provide for the
consequences of acting upon their own laws. It was,
however, not unreasonable to give a per centage to the
West Indians to shield them from the risk of total ruin.
He would urge upon Government the importance of the
cooperation of the Colonial I,,,gislatures. He would put
it to Hon. Membet s if there was not something extremely
awkward in violent interference at the present moment.
The inquiry before ti,e House of Lords was declared to be
unfinished, and the Government had pledged the Colonial
Legislatures that, until the report was made, nothing defi-
nitive could be done. The Assembly of Jamaica had de.
(dared that they were ready to enter into bona fide mgo.
tiation, and, therefore, to press the resolutions would be
an act ungracious in itself and unnecessary. The resolua
tions made a difference between the idle and industrious

save : but be was afraid that, with the idea of ireedom,
the slave would not qualify himself to enjoy it.
Lord HOWICK wished to say a few words in explana-
tion, after what bad fallen from the Hoc. Gentleman who
had just sat down. If the slaves to which he had alluded
were in a weak state of health, how came it that they
produced double the quantity of sugar that had been pro-
duced in other islands. The Hon. Gentleman had quoted
the cases of St. Lucia and St. Vincent's, but he had
taken periods when great hurricanes had occurred. In
the three years, between 1826 and 1829, when natural
causes only were in operation, there was a small increase
in the population. All that he had argued was that the
manner of cultivating sugar was destructive of human life.
In Demerara there was a great temptation to exact an
undue quantity of labour, and slaves were fast perishing.
In Barbadoes labour was less valuable, and there was not
the same temptation to encroach upon the slave. He
would now state the course that he meant to pursue as to
the different amendments that had been proposed. He
could not approve of the measure which bad been broeght
forward, but for the reasons which had been given by his
Hon. Friend near him, it was not his intention to sup-
port any of the amendments that had been pro-
posed. He trusted that those wl:o thought that the
only course was to give immediate liberty to the
slave would follow the example of time Honourable
Member for Liverpool, and endeavour to avoid, if pos-
sible, any division in this stage of the proceedings. The
House was agreed that slavery ought to be abolished ; let
them endeavour to agree to that without coming to a
division. There was nothing in the first resolution in-
consistent with his view of the case. They might pass
the first resolution without a division, and establish, by a
unanimous vote of the House, that which it was of the
utmost importance to attp.in, the necessity of emancipa-
tion. After the principle had been established, they
should come to the discussion of the next resolution. To
these resolutions he could not give his consent. He
hoped the Hon. Member would not press them. They
did nut appear to be necessary to his Bill. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had said that the details might be set-
tled in the colonies, and it was of the utmost import.
ante that we should get the co-operation of these Legis•
latures. He trusted, therefore, that the Right Hon.
Gentleman would not carry the two resolutions which
would prevent the Bill from being hereafter modified, but

would leave these matters to the discretion of the Colonial
Lee islattt

Mr. F. BUXTON had never said that the females ex-
j ceeded or equalled the males. He had said that the
males were 37,000 and the females 32,000 ; but he had
! said that the whole population of the females, exceeded,
in the last returns, the whole population of the males, and
that assertion was true, for the females were 344,000,
and the males 333,000. In Demerara, out of a popula-
tion of 77,000, there was a decrease in 12 years of
4,127. In Trinidad, out of a population of 25,000,
there was a decrease of 6,168. These assertions were
critically examined in the House of Lords, and though hi•:
figures were shaken in a few
_instances, yet there after-
wards appeared to he 800 in his favour. He had stated
that he should support the Noble Lord in the present
stage, but he should by no means give him his support
throughout the whole of the proceedings. It was impos-
sible that he should eive his support to that part of the
measure which contemplated an apprenticeship of twelve
years, or any thing like twelve years. Though he
thought highly of the talents of the Right Hon Secre-
tary, he did not think that he had talents to alter
human nature. Say either that the slave shall be
whipped or that lie shall receive wages, but how it could
be expected that he should work 12 hours without wages
or without the whip. he could never understand. This
would defeat the benevolent object the Hon. Gentleman
bad in view. He was convinced that the negroes would
do no work until the period came that they were paid
wages for it. Let the Right Hon. Gentleman remind the
West India planters that they might come too late. If
they asked too much, the consequence would be that they
might get nothing. He would vote fur paying them a
sum of money, not because we owed them a sum of money,
but because we ought to abolish slavery. The West
India planters had succe,sively rejected every attempt to
ameliorate the condition of the slave; and after every re-
jection the public hail risen in their demands. If slavery
were not terminated by an Act of Parliament this session,
the inevitable consequence would be, that the people of
England would some forward and a.-Is for emancipation,
unaccompanied by any relief to the planters, and that was
what they would surely obtain.—( Hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL then rose. He said that, in the
whole course of his Parliamentary experience, he never
approached the discussion of any question, the interests
involved in which appeared to be of equal magnitude with
the question now under discussion. He never recollected
one in which the difficulties to be surmounted were so ap-
palling—he never recollected one in which a false step in-
curred the hazard of consequences mere lamentable and
more irreparable. He admitted the just claims of the West
Indians to compensation—to compensation upon fair atol
equitable grounds—for the loss to which their property
was exposed in consequence of the measures of emancipa-
tion ; but he did not rise to discuss this question as a
partisan of the West Indian, or any interest. It was no
consolation to him to hear that West Indian property syss
estimated at 30,000,0001., or that that was the extent of
the claims which the West Indians preferred. The country,
he knew, could adjust that difficulty, whatever the amount
—whether 15, 20, or 30 millions, that sum did not ex-
ceed the means of the country of providing pecuniary
compensation. But there were other interests in-
volved, for which, if they were sacrificed, nu com-
pensation could be given. There were interests of still
higher magnitude than any interests of proprietors. When
he looked at the extent of the revenue which was received
from West India property; when be looked at the impa-
tience of this country under fiscal burdens; when be
recollected that the amount of the revenue which we were
putting to hazard was five millions; when he recollected
that failure in our efforts might increase the hardships to
which the slaves were subject, the interests of property
and the claims of West India proprietors appeared to sink
into insignificance. He was confident that the House did
not look at the redemption of a past pledge. Our object
was not to punish the West Indians—our object was to
lay the foundation of future industry and prosperity. Our
object was not merely to pass a hasty vote recognising
the principle of emancipation, hut to alter the state of
society in a different hemisphere. Our object must be to
amalgamate the different races—to discover some stimulus
in lieu of the degrading stimulus of the whip. Our object
was not to create a dominion of black savages content with
the necessarie. of life, hut so to train them that, with a
taste for the comforts of life, they might earn their livelihood
by honest means. That being our object, it was accom-
panied with greater difficulties than the petitioners who
had addre-sed the House were competent to judge of.
The very circumstance of the King's Government having
come forward and recognised the principle of emancipation
constituted a new era. There were physical and moral
causes which obstructed the settlement of the question.
Slavery had been extinguished in most parts of Europe and
of the East, because it was more profitable to the proprie-
tor of slaves to employ his alive as a free labourer. Here
there were distinctions of colour, although lie would not
assert that there was any inferiority upon the part of the
blacks. There was no stimulus, after the stimulus of coer-
cion had been abolished, to induce the black to procure the
necessaries of life. The evidence was conclusive that in
those countries a few days were sufficient to enable the
black to procure the necessaries and comforts of life.
Having procured them, his chief enjoyment was the bless-
ing of repose, the absence from that very labour for which
it was wished to create a stimulus. Did he deny the
competency of Parliament to deal with this question ?
By no means. By abolishing the trade in slaves, the
House of Parliament as much struck at the interests of the
planters as they now would do by assenting to the abolition
of slavery, and therefore they ought to look narrowly to
what they were about before they sacrificed the planter alto-
gether. The compulsory registration of sl ayes infringed also,
in a minor degree, upon the planters' rights, which had in
no shape been compensated for. Now the way in which he
looked at the question was this. In each of the colonies
the authorities had an inherent right to dispute the act of
emancipation, but he felt at the same time th at whilst the
Imperial Parliament was possessed of power sufficient to
overcome this right, and to enforce their edicts, the best
way would be to endeavour, whilst they legislated for the
colonies, to conciliate them instead of running counter to
them in every way. The first resolution of the Right
Hun. Secretary was to the effect that the Committee
pledged themselves to immediate emancipation as a princi-
ple—.h ickled afterwards by the apprenticeship of the
negro, but still on the face of it bearing the impress of
instant freedom. Now, divesting the question of all party
feelings, and acting as he would do upon so serious an
occasion, in pet-fa-et freedom from all shackles of party, he
would be content to look fairly at the two plans before the
Committee, as stated by the Right Hon. the Secretary for
the Colonies, and the Noble Loud, the ex-under Secretary
fir the same possessions, and who seemed to him to have
had more experience, and consequently to be possessed of
a better judgment than the Right Hon. Gentleman. The
Noble Lord advocated immediate emancipation—the other
advocated ultimate emancipation, to be attained through
the slow progress of twelve years' labour. Now, even if
the resolution of the Right Hon. Secretary for the
Colonies were to be sanctioned by the Committee, he
must express his doubts of the expediency of using
the words " immediate emancipation," because
expectations were thereby raised in the minds of the
negroes which the p'an did not afterwards realize. It
might be said that his objection was a mere verbal one—
b it so ; but let them not forget that the first impression
which the resolution would create, would be, that the
chive was to be instantly free, and that it was ❑ot possible
to combine the condition of freedom with that of coerced
labour, as he would subsequently find himself subject to
.—and he, consequently, must inevitably experience great
disappointment at the delusion practised on him. Even
if he were prepared to agree in the plan of the Right Hon.
Secretary, which he was not disposed to do, he should
object to the introduction of the word " immediate."
He would have inade the first resolution as concise as
possible, and as strict to the letter of the subsequent
conditions as it could be worded, because then the exact
terms of it could be adhered to, whereas, in its present
state, the after part of the resolutions completely negatived
the outsetting declaration, He was not, however, pre-
pared to propose any amendment upon the present ques•
tint' ; he would rather throw the whole of the responsibility
and the effecting of the matter upon the Government, and
that the House of Cotnmons ought to give their support
to any plan which it was possible safely to carry into
effect. If the House recognised the principle of compen•
sation, they would be taking one great step towards effec-
tuating their object, and they would thereby arm the
Government with the means of setting slavery aside. By
the resolutions of 1823 the House agreed to the necessity
of putting the slaves in a progressive state of preparation
for freedom, and if, in the present year, the House declared
them to be fit for freedom, they would be taking a most
important step upon the proceedings of 1823. He was
aware that there was an amendment for the appointment
of a Committee, which he would not support: neither
would he support either of the plans of the Right Hon.
Secretary or the Noble Lord. Indeed he was willing to
say that he was so perfectly ignorant of colonial affairs as
to be unable then to say which of the two plans appeared
the best. Take that of the Noble Lord, for instance, for
immediate emancipation :—on looking back they would
find one of the highest authorities, and also one of the most
disinterested authorities, pronouncing boldlyagainst it. Mr.
Burke, in 1798, looking at the question as one which in-
volved the interests of humanity to an extent unparalleled,
observed that, in considering the question of emancipation,

' it was most important to ascertain whether the slave was fit
for his new state of freedom : " For,'' said that great
Statesman, " the process of bringing a set of free savages
to a state of order totally differed from that by which slaves
were to be brought to the settle condition." Mr. Can-
nine, in 1823, expressed great dissatisfaction at the slow
progress towards a proper condition that the slaves had
then made: he agreed entirely in what Mr. Canning then
said, and he concurred also with that Statesman in blaming
the West India Legislative Assemblies for having done so
little towards the improvement of the moral condition of
the slaves. But to quit that topic, for the Committee
was not now considering the neglect of the West India
Legislatures, but whether the slave was yet fit for freedom,
Mr. Canning, in touching upon this subject, alluded with
much force to a then recent and powerful fiction, an.
warned the House lest in bestoo ing freed on on the
unprepared negro slave, they should do ',1•4 was described
in this fiction, call into life a creature endowed with
the thews and sinews of a giant, and with the reason
of a man, but totally unprepared and unfit to exercise
his powers, or to control his brute force. Tee Ho-
nourable Member for Weymouth, in 1823, said that he did
not then ask for more, because the slave was not qualified
for freedom, for if he had been, then would he at once
have demanded it. The Hon. Member then said that the
object he aimed at was not the sudden extinction of sla-
very, but its gradual abolition; so that it might not be
said so much to have been put an end to as to have died
away by degrees, a slow and gradual death, and go out
as the snuff of a candle.—(Hear, hear.) Now the ground
occupied then by the Hon. Member for Weymouth was
the unfitness of the slave for treedom, solely from his be-
ing unprepared. It was, therefore, incumbent on the
Hon. Member, now he peremptorily demanded their free-
dom, to show that they were prepared for it; because it
he could not show such to be the case, the objections to
immediate emancipation, started by him in 1823, were
,just as forcible now as at that time. The Right Hon.
B.ronet next referred, at some length, to the evident
on the slave trade, and showed that the opinion of
many persons of great experiepce was against immediate
emancipation; anti with respect to the case of the freed
negroes in the Caraccas, whose good conduct
had been cited by a Gallant Admiral, it must be recol-
lected that all the negroes liberated at that time were ne-
cessitated to take part in the war in Venezuela, and con-
sequently passing from a state of slavery to the strict
discipline of a soldier, was undergoing precisely the sort li
of process calculated to fit them for their freedom. It I
now remained for him to examine the outlines of the p 1 n
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and the most obvious ob-
jection seemed to him to be that by which the slave was
to be b aunt! for 12 years, and afterwards to be at liberty to
claim his freedom. Now, suppose a negro was to prefer
his chains and slavery to a state of freedom, how could the
master compel him to be free. In fact, with the local
differences existing amongst the various West India colo-
nies, it was totally impo'sible to carry the resolutions into
effect without the co-operation of the legislatures and au-
thorities there. It had better be arranged in a manner
to enable the master to feel that he consulted his own in-
terest by going hand in hand with the Government. It
was now the 3d of June, and the measure was yet ex-
pected to pass the House during the present session.
Had not the Government better give some discre-
tionary power to the colonists, without pressing their own
opinion so strongly, and thus afford to them the opportu-
nity of conceding to the slaves their freedom, and obtain
the credit of that act of grace? Was it not in the power
of the Right Hon. Secretary to borrow so much of the
plan of the Noble Lord (Howick) as would enable the
Colonial Legislatures to grant this boon to the slaves ?
The Right Hon. Secretary had proposed the appointment
of stipendiary magistrates to regulate the internal relation
of servant and master in the West India colonies ; but,
ought not these magistrates to be already appointed and in
action ? otherwise, how were they to be put in commis-
sion, when the islands were in the state to which the
appointment had reference ? The Hon. Member for
Weymouth bad declared that he would listen to no pro-
position by which the slave was to be compelled to pur-
chase his own freedom. He was sorry to hear the Hon.
Member say so, because he certainly looked upon the
necessity for purchasing his freedom to be a great stimulus
to exertion to the slave. The atnount of sugar now sup-
p'ied by the West India islands was about 4,500,000 lbs.
Now, suppose none was to be sent after the manumission
of the negroes, they would hazard a revenue of
5,000,000/. ; and, if the friends of humanity looked
narrowly at the question, they would find that the
condition of other slaves was deeply involved in the con-
sideration. The Gallant Admiral (Fleming) had de-
clared it to be unnatural to labour in the cultivation of
sugar ; if so, a stimulus to exertion must still be pro-
vided, in order to induce men to undo take voluntarily this
labour ; for if this were not done the consequences upon
slaves of another description would be as bad as the evils
from which the negroes were relieved. The Right Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to read extracts from the pro-
ceedings of the National Convention of Paris when the
question of negro slavery was discussed. After the debate
the President put the question to the vote, it was carried
by acclamation, amidst loud cries of " Vive la Repub-
lique." Men of colour gave the fraternal embrace to
French citizens; tears of joy were in all eyes, and " Vive
Is Republique" in all mouths. The cry was " Vive la
liberty," and the downfall of England.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He hail been told it was not fair to refer to
St. Domingo, and as he wished to avoid any expression
that could excite animosity, he had abstained from any
such allusion. He abstained from any thing that could
excite strong feelings, because he wished to see
a question of such moment decided by a deliberate
judgment rather than by the impulse of feeling,
or by the impression of the moment. No man
felt more interested in the question than him-
self. No man felt more abhorrence of slavery than
himself—but with all that abhorrence, he still felt himself
bound to declare that the only chance of safety was in
proceeding with caution and prudence. If another in-
stance were required of the bad effects of precipitate
emancipation, he would only refer the House to the scene
which occurred in the French colony of Guadeloupe,
when the news of the abolition of slavery reached that
island. On the question being decided in the National
Assembly, Citizen Dufourleau was sent out by the
Government to superintend the emancipation, and the
scene which lie witnessed, on reaching the island,
ought to act as a warning against precipitate measures.
No sooner did the slaves learn that no man could hold
eny property in slaves thin they rose in rebellion, and
committed indiscriminate plunder. Persons of property
were despoiled of their possessions, the white women were
reduced to the utmost distress—they were covered with
rags—they owed their means of subsistence to black
women who had formerly attended them as servants ;
the factories and workshops were in ruins, and every
where nothing was to be teen but desolation and
misery. General Dufourleau attempted to induce the
black population to return to their work and sober
habits, but in vain. He soon found that a whit-
man had not the same power in Guadeloupe that a
black had is St. Domingo. The consequence was that,
on May 20, 1802, it was found necessary to re-establish
slavery in Guadeloupe, and it continued so to the present
day. Now he implored the House to consider the sub-
ject, not only as it regarded their own inteteets, but as it
regarded the condition and well-being of the slaves. He
implored the House to disregard all pecuniary considera-
tions—to keep out of view the four or five millions which
accrued to the revenue by the duty on sugar and coffee,
and other West India produce. He called upon them, in
the name of humanity, first of all to recognise the prin-
ciple ; and, in the next place, to apply the utmost cau-
tion in carrying the principle into effect. Every one who
had attended to the subject, must be aware that the deci-
sion of that night would affect not only the black popula-
tion of our own islands, but would extend to slaves of the
United States, the Brazils, and in every other part of the
world where slavery existed. These slaves might address
us and say, that by taking a prudent and cautious course,
other states might have been induced to follow our ex-
ample ; but if, by following a different course—by grant-
ing emancipation without due caution, confusion would
arise in the West India islands, then the United States
and the Brazils might be induced to cling more closely to
the oppressive system, and we should incur a great re-
sponsibility, by aggravating the evils of the slave popula-
tion in any other country.—(Hear.)
Lund ALTHORP concurred almost entirely in the ob-
servations made by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He con-
curred in the great importance of the measure, not only as
it might affect the interests of this country, but also the
slave population of other countries ; but still he must say
that the danger of remaining as we were was still greater.
The only difference between the course recommended by
the Right Honourable Gentleman and that proposed be
the Government was in the point of time. The Right
Hon. Gentleman thought the House should agree to reso-
lutions for the abolition of slavery, taut put oil the execu-
tion of the plan to some future time. He could not at al,
agree witb such a proposition. Indeed, he believed the
worst possible consequences would follow from agreeing t.
resolutions without any practical effect. Different plat,.
had been proposed by Hou. Members, but there were none
to which he did nut see great objections. The Rigla
Hon. Gentleman had recommended that coercion shout.
still be resorted to, till the slaves could be brought a
such a condition as would fit them for free labour
Now, there was no great difference between tbst p 1...

• :-.- --:- ~
_. -..ca-..: -
,el,f
mod the plan proposed by. Goratl9ol4:- — l can-
inued, to a certain extent, coerciy-e*io'.--; at the
same time held out an inducement tin:i:ast ^.4 ie cases
if St. Domingo and Gutidaloupellteifi.glioted, but
these were not at all in point.; And he would appeal to the
llouse whether the situation of the slaves in these colonies,
t the time of the disturbances, were not very different
from the situation of the slaves in the British West India
islands now. At the former period the great proportion
,1 the slaves had been lately imported from Africa, and
.vere in the most barbarous state; whereas the slaves in
aur possessions, though not civilized, were comparatively
.o, and had acquired habits of industry which those of St.
Domingo did not possess. Much had been said about the
indolence of the slave population, and instances had been
cited to prove this; but though some slaves might have
exhibited such a disposition, surely it was not to be taken
Cor granted that all were equally destitute of habits of
•ndustry. The Right Hon. Gentleman had laid a good
deal of stress on the first resolution, and had blamed the
Government for calling on the House to agree at once to
esolutions which would emancipate the slaves immediately.
Now, that was not the import of the resolution.
It did not say that emancipation was to be imultdiate,
bu' that measures ought to be taken to carry it into
effect. His Noble Friend (the late Under-Secretary for
the Colonies) objected to the amount of compensation,
and thought 20,000,0001. should be granted instead of
15,000.000/. For his part, he considered 15,000,000/.
quite sufficient. The whole West India property bad
heen estimated at 45,000,0001., and he tnought a third
of that sum the full amount to which the West India
planters were entitled, for taking away one fourth of the
labour of the slaves—that he thought was not an unfair
proposition ; hut he was not at all prejudiced in favour of
:me sum more than another. The Hon. Member for
Dublin said the time had now passed, as emancipation had
been agreed to by the resolutions of 1823 ; but it ought
r,o be remembered that though the resolutions were aerted
to at that period, the Colonial Legiala!nres had done
ooth;n;, and the slaves remained in the same state as in
1823. Looking at the resolutions in every point of
,iew, he thought them the most desirable for the Com-
mittee to adopt, and he trusted that such was the view
taken of them by the great majority of Members.
Asher a few words from Mr. HUME,

Mr. GODSON earl he should withdraw his amend..
ment, as his object could be as well attained on any of the
subsequent resolutions.
Mr. STANLEY said that, as it was not the intentior.;
of the Hon. Member to divide upon the amendment, he
should observe that, i❑ the future course of prosecu ink;
this measure, it would be ci.cessary for them to have the
Colonial Legislatures working with them ; for, without
'heir concurrence, there would he but a faint chance of
carrying it into successful execution. It was, however,
absolutely necessary that the British Parliament should
take the initiative step, and declare at once explicitly,
that there was no longer the smallest chance of avoiding
emancipation. The first steps taken, the details might
5e filled up by the Colonial Legislatures; for he was
willing to admit that, at this period of the session, Par-
liament could not enter into al the various details of a
measure of such magnitude. Though he so far agreed w th
the Right Hon. Baronet, yet he could not agree with hint
in thinking that Parliament should only indicate' what it
wished to be dune. He thought they should go farther
and enact the principal features of the measure they con-
templated, and then allow a certain. time for the Coloni,l
Legislatures to complete the measure by filling up the d, -
tails. At the expiration of the limited time, if the Colo-
nial Legislatures should not have dune so, then the Parlia-
ment itself should interfere, and, however repugnant to
their feelings it might be—however diffieult, or however
dangerous, it should incur the risk, the difficulty, and the
danger, and carry its object into immediate execution.—
(Hear.) He would go no farther at that time than to
congratulate the country, and he might say the world, that
the fiat of the British House of Commons had gone forth,
and that the abolition of slavery was inevitable, and that
now the means only were to be considered by which that
abolition could be best effected. It was, in fact, reduced
to a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence.

Lord SANDON then stated his disinclination to press
his proposition to a division.
Sir R. PEEL moved that the word " immediate" be
expunged, and the word " effectual" should be substi-
tuted. Also that the word " ultimate" should he intro-
duced, so that the resolution should run, " that effectual
measures should be taken to secure the ultimate abolition
•tf slavery."—(Cries of "No, no.") He should not press
it to a division, but as immediate abolition could not take
place, he thought the resolution thus amended would be
more con'istent with the acknowledged intentions of the
Government.

Sir R. INGLIS was of opinion that the Right Hon.
Secretary would find himself as unfortunate in the use of
the words " immediate abolition" as he had already found
Himself in the words " extinction of tithes."

Mr. BUCKINGHAM rose amidst loud cries of " Ques-
t.on," and entreated to be heard for ten minutes only, but in
ain. He then appealed to them for five minutes' atten-
tion, but the impatience of the House was so great, that lie
was compelled t ) submit an amendment without any obser-
vation. to the effect that it was expedient that an inamtdiate
emancipation of s'at'es should take place without subjects
ing the slave to any burden or payment for his freedom.
Mr. BERNAL then put the amendment proposed by
Sir R. Peel, which was negatived without a division.
Upon reading Mr. Bucxtnollett's amendment,

Lord HOWICK rose and said that, concurring, as he
did, in the principle of the amendment, and intending, as
he did, to advocate that principle in the future stages, he
would entreat of the Hon. Member to postpone his
amendment. The resolution before the House was only
defective—it was by no means inconsistent with the
*uhsequent adoption of the amendment. He would,
therefore, entreat the Hon. Member to iet the first reso-
lution pass, and then move his amendment upon the se-
cond and third resolutions. It was very important that
the first resolution should be adopted unanimously by the
House, because it recognised the great principle of eman-
cipation, and therefore it was that he wished the amend-
ment to be withdrawn.

Mr. BUCKINGHAM consented to withdraw his
amendment.

The first resolution was then put from the Chair, and
agreed to.

Lord SANDON then asked the Right Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Stanley) what course he meant to pursue with
respect to the memures to be founded on the resolutions ?

Mr. STANLEY said he did not intend to bring any
mea-ure forward until after the resolutions should have
been reported.
The House then resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again this day.