The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-28 00:00:00

.. • ..

titude to the people of Ireland. Two years ago, when the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was seeking etre -
nuously, but by legal and constitutional means, for a
repeal of the Union, he (Mr. Attwooh) had expressed to
hhn his opinion of the tendency his proceedings might
have to de'ay the final triumph of the great measure of
Reform—he besought him fur a time to forego that mea-
sure for the sake of the country at large—not to strive for
a particular benefit till they had secured the common li-
herty of all.--(Hear, hear.) That Hon. and Learned
Gentleman did suspend his efforts (Laughter and
cheers.) his countrymen generously gave up the con-
sideration of private wrongs to assist in redressing the
common wrongs of all—(Cheers)—they generously aban-
doned local feelings for the general interest of the whole
einuire.—(Cheers.) They cerr:erl, by this means, the
Reform Bill peacefully and legally, which, without such
disinterestedness—without such noble aid—they never
could have done for years, or without shedding oceans of
blood. He asked whether they were to repay such im-
mense services by the blackest ineratitude—whether they
were to prepare dungeons and halters for those men whose
support in the hour of need they bad so gladly availed
themselves of?—(Hear, hear.) Was it befitting the con-
duct of gentlemen and men of honour to turn the weapon
against the breasts of those who had shielded and fought
for them ?—(Hear, hear.) But be would not occupy
the House any further upon the subject. He urged
the Noble Lord, on whom he really believed all man-
kind looked with respect, to pause "yet a little mo-
ment" in his career—to stop on the threshold—to consider
that he was on the brink of a gulph, the depth of which
no man's eye could tell. A little pause, and this deep
and mighty gulph might yet be avoided—some measure of
a more palliating character might be introduced, and so
all feelings and a'l interests be consulted.—(Herr, hear.)
He had no donbt that in six months from that time, with-
out resorting to any measures of blood, without infringing
on the glorious legacies their fathers had left them, the
whole people of Ireland might be rendered happy, con-
tented, and peaceful. If, instead of this Bill, Ministers
would send a special commission—not a commission to
drink the blood of the unfortunate peasantry—but a come
mission of peace; if the House would agree to this, and
adopt measures that he wouid prnpe-e (as amidst general
cries of " Question" we understood the Hon. Gentle-
man), he pledged himself there would he no more dis-
tress, and that these lamentable disturbances wooll at
once be discontinued.—(" Question, question.") Why
not writ a little time to consider, ere they took such a
questionable step ? If the motion were not granted, he
would, by every power of body and soul, resist this mor-
tal me Isere to the last.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL entreated the Hon. Member to
withdraw his motion.—(Hear, hear.) They would have
ample opportunities of discussing every point connected
with the Bill ; and he would suggest they had better give
up all desultory warfare. They would not fail to show,
hereafter, how far from being content they were with
what the Hon. Secretary had in that show-box which he
was prepared to submit to the House (alluding to a reel
box in which Ministerial papers are generally brought
down to the House). He should like to know who stuffed
that box, in the absence of all the friends of Ireland. On
the last occasion in which the people of Ireland had been
drawn into crime, it was through the operation of the
Tithe Bill. It was true that some excesses had been com-
mitted ; but was a whole nation to be deprived of its
liberty on acc, unt of the misdeeds of a few miscreants?
Surely not. Means such as these would never bring the
country to a state of quiet; and the Government ought
to know this, for they had already found compulcon un-
equal to the enforcement of their own Tithe Bill.
Mr. ROCHE consented to withdraw his motion. He
hoped that people from the other side of the water would
not be considered as Arabs in the sight of those who were
here. He threw back the defiance that had been uttered
by the Right Hon. Secretary. As a man whose wife and
family and property were all now in the country that was
ro be the subject of these measures—as one having every
thing that he held dear in that country—be wished for
the information that the papers he had moved for con-
tained. He had no improper motives in asking for these
papers, and only wished to obtain the best information on
do. • -:ant subject. He trusted that the House would
petite .os
to themselves, for it'serend not only to his country but
.ihrough the side of h•
country that themselves couldbe
SUPPRESSION OF' DISTURBANCE f,,..,..._
BILL.
Lord ALTHORP moved the Order of the Day for the
first reading of this Bid. On the motion being put, many
" Noes" were heard ; but on the Speaker asking whether
,he House was to be divided, was aneweeed in the nega-
tive, and the Order of the Day was then read.
Lord ALTHORP then addressed the Home to the fol-
lowing e ffec :—I can assure the House, Sir, that I make
the proposition which I am now about to submit to their
Attention, deeply fee-line how difficult it must be for any
man to address such an assembly as the present, and to
ask such men as I now see assembled to erant to any Go-
vernment the p iwers I note come to seek at their hands.
The whole course of my political life has been such as to
make it against my opinion to come forward with such a
proposition ; and nothing could have induced me to do so
except the feelings, which are strongly impressed on my
mind, of the absolute necessity of the measure. As I feel
I shall have to detain the House a considerable length of
time, it is of course desirable that I should not preface my
arguments by many rem irks, and I shall, therefore, at
once proceed to the question now before the House, and
submit the grounds on which the Government feel called
upon to ask the assistance of Parliament. I feel that it is
necessary for me, in order to lay the ground for this
motion, to prove that the state of some parts of Ireland
is such as to require some remedy of an extraordinary
nature, and not only to prove this, but to show that
such is the state of those parts of Ireland, that almost any
remedy is better than their present. I must show, in the
next place, that the ordinary law is insufficient to aff ird
such a remedy; and thirdly, I must show that the provi-
sions of the Bill, which lam now about to lay before the
House, are such as will provide a remedy for those evils, to
repress which the ordinary law is inadequate. If I am
able to prove these things, I shall have made out a case
—such a case as the Government are called on to make out,
in order to justify the course they now recommend. In
endeavouring to prove these things, I shall state the
grounds which have induced me to think that the case! have
mentioned is fully made out. The first ground is the
state of the disturbances in Ireland. The insecurity of
life and property in which Ireland is at present placed,
owing to what causes it may be, is such that unless it can
be proved that another remedy would afford some allevia-
tion of the evil, it does require the interposition of this
House to provide the remedy I now propose. Ido not
know how I can better enter upon that part of the subject
than by stating the number of cases in which.the laws
have been not only grossly violated, but set at utter defi-
ance. The number of these cases may be tedious ; but in
a case of such interest as this, in which the House will
require strong proof in order to induce them to adopt such
extraordinary measures, I think it is better I should be
tedious, than that I should leave the case short of what I
am able to prove. I will take this opportunity of observ-
ing, that the motion which has been just made and with-
drawn, is not indispensable. It is a motion for an account
of all the disturbances that have taken place within the
last three years. It would be impossible at this moment, and
in time for this discussion, to give that general ret ern, but
the statement I shall make will include the greater part of
these particular instances, and give the sum total in a few
peas of Ireland at least. The fearful extent of the disturb-
inces in Ireland is already well known. lam confirmed
in that statement by the Members for Ireland—by those
who are most opposed to this measure—that the White-
foot outrages have been of a most enormous description;
and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself almost ad-
mits that something like the Insurrection Act might—
(Mr. O'Connell was understood to express his dissent)—
at least, that persons ought to be prevented from leaving
their houses at night.—(Mr. O'Connell again expressed
his dissent.) I understood that the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had been of that opinion ; but, as he denies
it, of course I must be mistaken, and I shall not press
that point further. But the Hon. Member did admit =hat
the state of Ireland was such as was
.most dangerous to
the public peace—that in some parts of Ireland the pea-
santry were in arms—that the country was in danger of
imtnediate insurrection—and that it behoved them to he
extraordinarily careful as to the measures they introduced.
That was the statement as to the condition of the coun-
try made by the Hon. and Learned Member—by that
Member tf the House, who, I have no doubt, will offer the
most efficient and powerful opposition to the motion.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman supposes that the con-
tents of this box have been collected without the concur-
rence of the parties who are accused of the disturbances.
The documents here contained t'hre official documents—
such as would have been laid on the table of the House, if
the motion of the Hon. Member for Cashel.had been car-
ried—suchAocurnents as would, if we had proceeded in the
old form, have been laid before the Committee, and such as
those on which a report would have been 'Made by the Com-
mittee to this House. The firm case which I shall state to
the House is the case of the murder of a man named Farrel.
A large body of men, some armed with guns and some
with pistols, assembled in the month of February last, at
Castle Comer, in the county of Kilkenny. They entire I
the house of Farrel, who was tenant of a person named
Cavanah, and, in the words of a survivor, " without

-1'1)

giving him one second to say his prayers, shot him, like a
dog, through the head."--(Hear, hear.) The next case
is that of the murder of a man named Potts. That was
in March last. Potts was the engineer of a colliery in
the county of Kilkenny, and that murder was cammit ed
at noon day, in the presence of fifty persons, and within
one quarter of a mile of the head quarters of a regiment.
Potts was oleo at by four men, who, after de;og thie•
walked quietly away.-(Hear, hear, hear.) They did
this in the presence of fifty persons, and yet no attempt
had been made either to arrest them or prevent the out-
rage being committed. The third case is that of the
murder of a man named Marrorn. That occurred on the
27th of July, at the hour of between nine and ten o'clock
in the forenoon. Marrom left his lodge, which was close
to a colliery, in the barony of Gowry, and within a mile
of a place where an outrage had been committed some
time previously. He went into his carpenter's shop, and
had scarcely got in when three men came in, armed with
guns, and shot at and wounded him, and then beat
him down and despatched him with the butt-end of
their guns.-(Hear, hear.) The next case occurred in
Cashel, on the 26th of August. That was the case of the
murder of Willi sin Shea, which was committed at five
o'clock in the afternoon. lie was murdered while sitting
at the table of a room-in a public-house, in company with
two or three other men. The murder was committed by
two fellows, who entered the room armed with guns, and
having their faces blackened : they ordered Shea to [pi
on hie knees, and instantly shot him dead.-(Hear, hear.)
The next case was one which had occurred at Portarling-
ton, on the 23d Sept. last. It was not a else of actual
murder, but of an outrageous attack that might have led
to murder. There was assembled an armed party of men,
one of whom shot at another person and lodged some
slugs in his breast, and the ruffians afterwards beat him
most violently. The next was the case of the murder of
Mr. Houston, who was a most respectable clergyman, of
80 years of age-(Hear, hear)-and who was murdered
within one mile of his own residence. This murder took
place on the border of Queen's County and Kilkenny, upon
the 25th of October last. It is stated in the account 1
have received, that he was a most inoffensive and quiet
man, and was generally respected. I believe, indeed, that
he had been guilty of the crime of collecting his tithes.
In this case, I know it has been stated, that the cause of
the murder was in consequence of a quarrel with a drunken
servant upon his grounds, but the person, who was taken
up immediately afterwards upon suspicion of having com-
mitted the murder, was not at all drunk ; so that, if
such an outrage could in the least degree be tx-
cused by such a circumstance, and in my opinion it
cannot, that excuse did not exist in this case.-(Hear,
hear.) Another case is that of a gross attack upon Abra-
ham Madox, committed on the 23d of November last.
An attack was made on the house in which be lived, and
it was set fire to. Two constables bad been placed
there for its protection, one of them was immediately
murdered, and Madox's wife and daughter were so se-
verely wounded that they rived only two hours afterwards;
Madox's son was also dangerously wounded. John Weide
was the person at whose instigation this brutal murder
was committed, and it appeared that he had been many
mouths before dispossessed of some laud by Madox, That
was one of the instances in which, atter a long interval,
the purpose of revenge had been shockingly accomplished.
On the sth of December last, an attack of a similar kind
was made by a party consisting of about fifty into, up.
the house of a person who had off-nded the assailants in
a manner similar to that of Madox. One shot had killed
one man, and wounded another in the house, which was
then set tire to and burnt, and several peopl- were buried
in the ruins. The reason for the attack was, that the
former tenant bad been ejected for non-payment of rent.
In another case several tenants had been removed from
their premises for a similar cause, and other tenants had
been put into possession. A man named Joyce wis one
of these new tenant. Hie house was surrounded with
armed men-the door was removed, it was set fire to;
Joyce was dragged out to some little distance, and there
shot dead. The same party afterwards went to the house
of a min named Baldwin, and set fire to it ; they then
went to the house of a man named Maplesden ; one of the
party fired at and wounded him, and he was now lying
in great danger of his life. I now come to the case of
the county of Kildare. On the 10th of last January a
most cruel murder wrs committed at Youghal, upon a te-
nant of the Duke of Devonshire, a person of the name
of Goward, who was shot dead by the party that at-
• him. That wa.+, 1 know, a murder in consequence of
previous pr 050.....• • t, euppotted that the man
murdered had before set anon; re. , beet the other
party. The provocation, no doubt, if it had
was gross and aggravating ; but it was not to he reveng.,i
by a murder, an outrage of so much deeper a dye. The
next case is tt at of a man who was charged on oath with
sending the Whitt feet to shoot his brother. That case
arose, I believe, out of some quarrel relative to the posses-
sion of three acres of land. That person has been com-
mitted to take his trial on this charge, and I shall, there-
fore, not mention his name.-[Mr. O'Connell asked for
tie date of the trans iction.l -The date is the 25th of
January. I have spoken of these, Sir, as cases of great
outrige. I have selected them as such, and I lay them
before the House, confident as to the impression they must
create. I have detained the House some time in stating
these cases, but consider tble as is their number, they are
not nearly so numerous as the cases I could have produced,
had I gone through the whole list of those of which in-
formation has been furnished us. The next point is that
which has been referred to so much by the Hon. Member
opposite, who says that these outrages are not worse, nor
more numerous than they have been within the last two
or three years. I shall he able to prove, Sir, in answer to
that observation, that they have been increasing during
these past years. The first statemeut I shall make on this
part of the subject will not be by way of comparison,
but to show the number of offences of an insurrectionary
kind committed in Leinster, during the last year.
That statement shows that during that period the
number of murders, or of attempts to murder, within the
single province of Leinster, has been 163 ; of robberies,
387 ; of burglaries, 1,823 ; of burnings, 194 ; of houghing
cattle, 70 ; of serious assaults, 744 ; of illegal notices,
913 ; and of wilful and malicious injuries to property,
407. If we compare that statement with the account of
preceding years, the matter will stand thus :--In the three
last months of 1829, the number of murders was 10 ; in
the corresponding months of 1830, it was 15 ; in those
of 1831, it was 47 ; and in those of 1832, it was 44.
It was a slight degree less in 1832 than in 1831 ; hut in
1832 there had been an increase of aoove four times the
amount of 1829. I shall take the three last months of
these several years for the statement of other offences, and
I find the account to stand thus :-In 1829, the number
of robberies amounted:to 69 ; in 1830, to 154 ; in 1831, to
152 ; and in 1832, to 173. Again, in 1829, the number of
burglaries was 39 ; in 1830, it was 94 ; in 1831, it was
251 ; and in 1832, it was 532. In 1829, the number
of burnings was 31 ; in 1830, it was 34; in 1831, it
was 29 ; and in 1632, it had reached 77.-( Hear, heir.)
In the year 1829, the number of cases of houghing cattle
was 13 ; in 1830, it was 20 ; in 1831, it was 17; and
in 1832, it was 31. In 1829, the number of cases of
serious assault was 45 ; in 1830, it was 54 ; in 1831, it
was 89; and in 1832, it was 235. In 1829, the num-
ber of illegal notices was 49 ; in 1830, it was 79 ; in
1831, it was 172 ; and in 1832, it was 197. In 1829,
the number of cases of malicious injury to property was
41 ; in 1830, it was 59 ; in 1831, it was 67 ; and in
1832, it was 134. Taking the whole of these offences,
which partook of an insurrectionary character together,
the total amount was-in 1829, 300 ; in 1830, it was
s
4 comparisonntrl
ihe9aew9rc
reached
vnrkeisensolscaeBetahch3ooi.algf.tf,htplLaietetrahi
ieonsvi
ntknaeisr,osws. 814 ; anti in 1832, it had
f-tilhi3la(;E severalandea rc,o
thmeall
ir
e, ths
ohefeastreh. weree
pr) i
toprovince
ici nl
l
of Leinster with the whole province of Connaught-a
showhav
et t,at
occasioned it is n otthtehien
epreecaus;
of crimes to which I have alluded. I will take the
Queen's County first. In that county there have Erten 40
cases of firing at the person with intent to kill. The num-
ber of similar attempts in the province of Connaught has
been 21-shooting a majority of 19 such attempts in the
single county I have mentioned over that of the whole
province of Connaught. In the same manner the number
of burglaries has been 626 in the Queen's County; in
Connaught it has been 345: In the amount of burnings
there has been an excess in the province of Connaught
over that of the Queen's County-the number of burnings
in the former being 91, in the latter 42. In the cases of
houghing cattle, the Queen's County exceeds Connaught
in the proportion of 115 to 52 ; and there has been a si-
milar excess with regard to cases of serious assault. By
serious assaults, I mean those which tend to the serious
injury of the persons attacked. Those who suffer from
such assaults would not, I think, be very nice in making
distinctions as to the degree of violence with which they
were attacked. The proportion of the crimes of this na-
ture committed in the county of Kilkenny, as compared
with the province of Connaught, was somewhat like that
of the Queen's County. The excess of murder in Kil-
kenny was one-of burglaries it was 174 ; the excess of
burnings appeared to be in the whole province of Con-
naught as compared with the county of Kilkenny by the
number of 60 ; but in the houghing of cattle there Were
three more cases in Kilkenny than in Connaught, and a
greater number of serious assaults by's2: In the county
of Westmeath, another of the counties of the province of
Leinster, the numbers were in similar proportions. I feel

that I have detained the House too long by this sort
of detail, vhich in the hands of anybody must be te-
dious. I might go farther, for I have other cases
which it vould be easy for me to adduce.—(Hear, and
cheers.) have stated tho-e instanc.es which were of the
most outrgeous character,—generally where there was
actual or ttempted murder ; and I will now, with the
uermieeionof the House, read some letters or extracts
which seen farther to illustrate the condition of the
country.—(The Noble Lord then read passages from va-
rious letter, the first dated from Kilkenny, 21st Jan.
1833, resieeting outrages principally on the borders of
Carlow, aid giving an account of beacons; lighted on the
bills, togeher with a statement of the severe duty of the
patrol. The next was from Goran, 15th Jan., 1833,
also referrng to signal fires on the hills, by which the
peaceable nhahitants had been terrified, notwithstanding
the paradiag of the police through the streets. A third
was from Louth, 19th Jan., 1833, noticing the assembly
of immenu bodies of peasantry at night, and the ill usage 1
of persons suspected of being inimical to their proceed.
ings, and lie manner in which well-disposed persons were.
obliged toseek refuge under the protection of the police.
It also maitioned a particular fact, that a farmer, who
had been in the habit of lending a winnowing-machine to a
loyal neiFilhour, had afterwards been compelled to refuse
ir, as threats had been used that his premises should be
burnt. Other communications of the same tenor repre-
sented tsat the peasantry were everywhere providing
themselves with arms, and making attacks upon the
peaceahlt inhabitants. The Noble Lord then conti-
nued do not know that it is necessary for me to go
farther with these individual cases—(Hear, hear, hear)—
and I nay mention generally that the situ rion of the
country is such, that applications for an increase of force
have been made from thirteen different counties.—
(Cheers) Among the papers will be found the complaint
of a sergeant of police that be has lost all power of pre-
venting the commission of outrages. The number of re-
wards offered upon apprehension of offenders has been
108, Ind of these two only have been claimed and
paid.—(Hear, hear.) It is quite clear that this result
must be owing to the disinclination of persons to give in-
formation ; for we cannot suppose—indeed I am quite sure
that it is not the case—that the well disposed people of
Ireland do not reprobate and wish to repress crime as
much as others ; and I only use the facts to show the ex-
t. eine fears of those attacked and injured, that even where
they have sufficient knowledge of the identity of the par-
ties they dare not come forward with information. I
think I have stated enough to prove that the condition of
affairs in Ireland at the present moment is one which re-
quires immediate remedy, and that his Majesty's Ministers
would have failed in their du'y if they had not endea-
voured to put a stop to the-e outrages ; but it was our
great object not to require anything exceeding the ordinary
powers of the law as long as any measure of greater power
and severity could be avoided. When first we caine inno
office, we iound the county of Clare in a state of much
disorder. A special commission was issued to try offen-
ders, an t the result was campl oely successful.—(Cheers
from Mr. O'Connell and his friends ) We afterward,
pursued the same course in Queen's County ; and let me
ask those who cheer me, whether the result there was
equally successful?—(Cheers from the Ministerial benclies)
The outrages in Queen's County have been continued, and
I shall have an opportunity of stating NL hat have been the
consequences of that special commission. Some of the
witnesses who came forward on the part of the pr osecu-
tion have been obliged to quit the country. True it is
that disturbance was quelled for a short time, but it soon
broke out again ; and at this moment it exists to as fright-
ful an extent as before.—(Cheers.) The expedieet which
succeeded in Clare failed in Queen's County. The second
point I am to establish before I can expect Parliament to
confide to Minis ere those extraordinary powers, is, that
the ordinary law of the country is insufficient. I hare
stated already one respect in which the ordinary law is
not sufficient, and I will now advert to others—such, I
mean, as the intimidation of jurors as well as of witnesses,
which renders it impossible that the ordinary law should
he executed, and it has therefore no chance of being
effeceuel in !undoing outrage. lam quite aware—and
the House will perhaps not be surprised to hear—that
I cannot have many cases to bring before the House of in-
timidation of jurors; but I have some, the part.culare of
which I beg to read. (His Lordship, among his papers, here
looked for a particular document, but not being able to
find it, proceeded.) I believe I can state most of them
from my memory, and if I succeed in establishing that a
system of intimidation exists, or that it has been carried
to a great extent towards those who have served, or were
caue.i up"" it tea Nosy bi iinataine
it is no easy task to obtain jurors. The case os
whie:i I pat-to-wetly refer is that of era .1..1 at tSlarrick-
shock ; and here I would observe that I have nothing
to do with the question whether the parties accused weir
guilty or innocent—whether the offence was supposed by
some to have been established or diet.roved, is a In otter for
:t.y purpose of no consequence. I only adduce the case
to show that some of the Jury who were thought to be in
favour of finding the prisoner guilty, received threatening
letters, and souse have been actually cotepelled to quit
that part of the country, mid to reside in Dublin. The
house of one was assailed, and shots were fired into it,
while a gentleman who was befeved to h we been favour-
able to the prisoners, hail his corn cut for him by the
people. When his sister was engaged in a civil suit,
threatening letters were sent to prevent witnesses appear
ing on th - opposite side. Therefore, if such have been
the case with one Jury (end that it has been so is noto
Hems), it will not be very difficult to infer that it is the
case with others through the country, although it in .y not
be possible to prove any outrage actually committed upon
a juror.—(Cheers from Mr. O'Connell and his friends.)
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman seems to think
that in this instance I am to act the part rather of an ad-
vocate than of a legislator, and that I ought to make no
admissions, called for in fairness and in fact, because they
may happen to he in his favour. I can only say, that my
object is to state the case as it is, and I beg to assure him,
that whenever I come to any part of the case which makes
for his side of the question, I shall have no hesitation in
stating that also ; so that without injury to his cause, he
might have spared some part of his triumph on this occa-
sion. Although no juror may have received personal injury,
the fact, as I have stated it, is not to be denied—that ju-
rors are in terror of appearing upon the trial of offenders.
On a previous night, my Right Hon. Friend mentioned
the number of jurors summoned on a trial who did not
think it prudent to answer to their names. To this it was
replied, that the jurors absent might reside at a great dis-
tance ; but the statement from Kilkenny upon the point
is simply this—that we are not to expect, at the ensuing
assizes, that jurors will he found to serve on the pending
trials, This statement is made upon as good authority as
it is possible to obtain. Further, as to the intimidation
of witnesses, I mentioned that several had been compelled
to quit Queen's County, in consequence of the evidence
given before the Special Commission. First, there was
Mrs. Brady, who has been driven from her house because
her son prosecuted John Delany for the murder of her
husband. James Daly, also, another prosecutor, was ob-
liged to accept a situation in the police.—(Laughter from
Mr. O'Connell)—in a distant county, to secure himself from
personal violence, and, perhaps, loss of life.—(Cheers.)
Another witness, also, has been placed on the police, for
the same reason.—(Hear.) John Ramsey has sought
refuge in the county of Antrim, and the family of Mr.
Large has been obliged to be protected by two constables,
owing to the concern he had in the Special Commission,
and a party of armed men was actually in search of Mrs.
Large. Mr. Jacob, a gentlemen, 61 years old, has been
compelled to leave his Elegise in consequence of having
proved the outrage at Marybarough, and the police with
d'fficulty saved him from personal violence. A family
of the name of M sjor has been driven to seek their breed
in Dublin, in order to escape from threatened violence.
Lieutenant Sherlock, although he hail the protection of
two constables, has qnitted his abode for the sake of per-
sonal security, he having prosecuted some persons to con-
viction under the Special Commission. Mrs. Dowling and
family have abandoned their dwelling to save themselves
from being murdered ; and a Mr. Manley actually turned
his nephew out of doors in order to show that he had no
concern in giving information against a man for robbing
his house of a gun. I have stated these cases, applicable
to Queen's County, in order to show the effect of terror
upon witnesses; and I think, when the House sees—first,
that the Special Commission in Queen's County has failed ;
secondly, that some jurors in the Kilkenny prosecutions
were threatened, and others rewarded ; anti thirdly, ,het
those who
or
obligedga ve evidenceto
putm
theha have been driven fromt, theiro
homes,
esunderthe pro etia
of the police, it will be aware, [hitt, at least as far as re-
gards the province of Leineter, the ordinary law is not
sufficient.—(Cheers.) The next point I have to prove is,
that the Bid now on the table is the measure which ought
to he adopted, in order to supply the deficiency of the or-
dinary law, For this purpose it will be necessary for me
to enter into some explanation of the main principles of
the Bill, to show how day apply to the grievances of
which we complain, and that they are necessary for the
protection of the peaceable inhabitants of Ireland. The
strongest, and, I admit without reserve, the most objec-
tionable part of time Bill is that which, in certain cases,
abolishes the trial by jury.— (Hear.) The great object
of this part of the measure is to do away with the effect
of the terror now found to operate so strongly upon the
minds of jurymen ; and here I may mention that various
suggestions have been made by persons, who allow that, in

the present state of affairs in Ireland, it is necessary to
employ coercive measures; these suggestions have bi•en
offered with the view of dispensing with the military tear
tunals proposed to be established by the Bill ; and I ad-
mit that, compared with the trial by jury, this mode 0f
administering justice must be deprecated by all men. But
this 1 must say, that every proposal as a substitute for
military tribunals seems to me infini'ely n ore
objectionable. It has been mentioned, among other
things, that a Judge of Assize might be sent down
to try offenders without the' aid of a jury ; but, in I
my opinion, this mode of habituating the minds of ,
the people to a new species of trial (fur new
it would be, and without a single precedent in
its favour) by a Judge without the intervention of a Jury.
would he more dangerous in itself, and more unconstitu-
tional and detrimental, than the plan we propose.
Another suggestion has been, that barristers, appointed
by the Crown, should try criminals without the inter-
vention of a Jury. This scheme, in my mind, would be
far more objectionable than the employment of a Judge
of Assize ; because the selection would be made by Go-
vernment, and it must be from barristers who were in
expectation of reward and promotion, in consequence of
pleasing the Government; whereas a Judge who had
risen to the head of his profession might be supposed, per
haps, above tempta'ion. Such a precedent would he peri-
lous to the Constitution, and faulty in principle, and there-
fore I object to it. The fact undoubtedly is, that if in
measures of this kind we attempt to take a middle course,
and to mitigate the excess of power beysnd the ordinary
law to such a degree as to make men regard it with less
dislike than as Englishmen we ought to feel, we do more
mischief than is occasioned by Bills of greater force and
effect, inasmuch as we may induce those in power to
bring forward their milder ph is when the occasion is not
so urgent as to demand them.—(Cheers.) Every body
will allow, and no one more readily than myself, that no•
thing but the most pressing necessity can warrant the
course we recommend.—(Hear.) Therefore I do not con-
sider the dislike it will probably meet with among the
people in some respects a disadvantage ; and for this,
among other reasons, I prefer the enactment contained
in the Bill upon the table. It has been called by sonic
the introduction of m irtial law into Ireland, but it is in
truth no such thing; it is riot the establishment of martial
law, but an alteration of the existing institutions, by requir-
ing military tribunals to ashninister the civil law.
The next point for which it is necessary to provide is, the
protection of witnesses; and it lia• been asked what pro-
tection do you afford to witnesses in the Bill? Every body
acquainted with Ireland knows that the principal danger
to which witnesses would be exposed, would occur during
the night; and in adopting to a certain extent the provi
stuns of the Insurrection Act, we obtain the power to
prevent the outrage on the persons of witnesses that would
• happen after dark. A main objection made to this con-
, cession is, that it gives the right of searching houses, and
here I am quite ready to admit t at the authority should
be gum did and limited in every way Hon. Gentlemen can
suggest for the defence of the subject. But they must
nut compare the state of Ireland with the state of this
couutry—the existence of a legal authority with the exist-
ence of the Whitefeet—a state of peace and order with a
state of tumultuous ass,triblies and murderous attacks. The
other part of the B 11, which relates particularly to the
Whit feet outrages, goes to the prevention of signals,
for the sake of either collecting a lawless force, or of giving
notice of the movements of the police. The principle
has been adopted front a law of this country, for the
better prevention of smuggling, compelling a party in cer-
tain cases to prove the negative, that he did not make the
signal ; but it is not, perhaps, necessary for me to go into
toese details. I have, very indistinctly, lam afraid, stated
the grounds on which this measure rests, as regards White-
feet outrages. I admitted that it was necessary fur me
to prove that the state of Ireland was such as to require
this extraordinary remedy, inasmuch as the ordinary law
was not sufficient for the purpose, and that the provisions
of the Bill are such as will enable us to remedy the exist-
ing evils. Having now gone through that duty, I hope
and trust the House will agree with me that I have made
out a case, at least as far as the Whitefeet are concerned.
'I here is another part of the measure, and the only part of
it, wirch extends to the whole of Ireland ; for the House
will not fail to observe that the portion of the Bill ti
which I have chiefly referred is only to apply to disturbed
districts, or to oisiricts which may hereafter be disturbed.
I admit—nay, I avow, tat so far it is a most despotic
and arbitrary measure ; and there is another part of it
which is a renewal of the Proclatnation Act. It has been
said that there is no connection between the political
aititation ^r saasaa —a these oistuibanees. Indeed, some
_ ---- assert that ene political
agitation in Ireland is a means of preventing the committal
of outrages. I confess it appears to me extraordinary, for
persons who have made most violent ant inflammatory
addresses, exaggerating to the utmost all the grievances of
Ireland, because they end with a cobweb pretence of wish-
ing for tranquillity, and recommending the people not
to lie guilty of a breach of the law—to contend that
their speeches, in fact, allay the disturbances they seem
intended to generate.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) among others, maintained that
political aeitatiou would put down disturbance, and he
seemet almost to insinuate that it was in his power to
put it down. Ido not—l cannot believe it : I should
be extremely sorry to believe it of any man, and least of all of
him, that having the power to put down such outrages, he
does not exert it. That he has as ouch power as any man
ever possessed by his eloquence to excite the passions and rouse
the feelings of the people, no man will deity ; that he can
raise the flame of discontent into open disturbance, is be-
yond dispute; but I will not do him the injustice—for
gross injustice it would be—to suppose that if he had the
means of allaying the storm he would fail to employ them.
Without looking at any particular or individual cases, any
man who reasoned upon the subject must feel that the
violence of language at political meetings must produce
excitement, and that excitement must tend to the continu-
ance of outrage.—(Cheers.) In one case, a friend of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman—a self styled pacificator—
went a short distance from Dublin, and made a speech in
the usual strain, complaining of grievances, exciting the
populace, and ending, according to custom, with the usual
hope that no breach of the law would be the consequence.
During the ensuing week five outrages were committed.
It might he the result of accident, but the fact at least
shows that the conclusion of the orator's harangue had
not the effect he pretended to desire. Ido not say that
all the outrages have been the result of political oceitement
—by no means—but looking at the connection which
does exist between political agitation and outrage, there
can be no doubt that the latter is promoted and increased
by the former. Let us look at the institution of what are
called " Volunteers" in Ireland, who are to vest elle civil
government of that country in the hands of an irreseonsiiile'
body, taking it trom those recognised servants of
the Crown and people who are responsible. Every
man, on payment of a shilling, may be enrolled
in this corps of Volunteers ; and let me ask, is
it possible that the Executive of Ireland should consent
that the preservation of the peace of that part of the em-
pire should depend upon them?—(Cheers.) I have here,
also, the speech of another pacificator—Mr. Steele.—
(Mr. O'Connell ,aid, across the table, that Mr. Steele was
under prosecution.)—Very well ; it is of no consequence,
and 1 will not use it; but the Volunteers are liable to
other objections. It must surely strike every man, that it
is highly improper that the whole civil authority of the
country should be placed in the hands of such a body,
which may be converted into a must dangerous political
engine, even to influence the votes of Members of this
House.—(Cheers.) Already has its power been exerted,
and certain Members have been denounced to their consti
tuents; and I must say, that there never was an institu-
tion which more deserved attention, and more required
remedy. I have thus gone over the grounds on which I
hold it necessary to add his powers to others, with the ob-
ject of putting down Whitefeet, agitation, and disturbance;
and, as to the arguments that may be used against the
Bill, I am aware that they will be used with ad-
vantage by Honourable Gentlemen who intend to
resist its progress. It is impossi le for any man to em-
ploy an argument more likely to gain favour with the mul
ti!ude than that which is derived from a comparison of the
state of liberty of this country with the supposed state of
bondage in Ireland. We shall, doubtless, have divers
declamations in praise of liberty, which no man wishes to
tloi liberty
themselves are th the
or protectionto t
h their
ir
gainsay ; but the question is—is it from a state of liberty
that Ireland is to be rescued ? 14 she not to be rescued
so-
ciety, tti
tfotra ta tperri
neighbours,
be t escued from a state of anarchy, where life has no
from a state of great and seavnedre
itsyrnaontnyd?etrilnsiesnhteaintoot
safety, and property no security ?—(Cheers.) Liberty is
but to be subjected to the authority of benefits
ethoerf
of life and property—the
pilseal
isbeesr
liberty
himself,a a tit s
bn protectionefitso,f
aevery t
imansnoitn doing
not a name, andd
ot
justice
tice n
his
o,ole to
mineatshuitseHwouhsiceh, it has become Inv duty
self-
constituted regulators. Another objection that tohragtahnats)f been
e
ul(-toriginengdt'ertaiGdguaCivn:,srtnismt,ieletuhtat the sole object of this measure is to
enforce the collection of tithes. I can, with perfect sin-
cerity, assure the House, that that is not the object of
this Bill; and if the Lord Lieutenant, in the exercise of
the discretion which this Bill confides to him, should apply
it exclusively for the purpose of entorcing the collection of
tithes, then, 1 must say, it would be a most unwise and
improper exercise of that discretion. If the Lord Lieu-

k.

tip
tenant should proclaim a district merey because.the
sired'
not be collected there, then I have no difficaoi.,,
shying that such an exercise of di-cretion would be
contrary to the spirit and intention of this sene
the wishes of his Majesty's Govei nment. I iik.l
no w touched upon all the topics connected with this
jae,t to which it is at all necessity for me to call the
tiro of the House ; but I, at the same tit
prebend that as it is so very unusual with me to anli,
h
the House at such length, I may not ave done tio)
like justce to a sutijict of such moment, and etrihti',e,
so mauve and such various details. I felt, however,
thus to occupy the time of the House, for, though a
mon fame, and the intelligence supplied by
tee made known some of the facts to which it has
re
th.ee
my ditty to advert, yet I will venture to s'iY,
scarcely any one in this country who can have Mad,
least approximation to a just idea of the real stat.eott
land, or of the amount of outrage cotninited again'
son and property in several parts of that country for _
time past. I have now to move that this Bill be onw
a first time.— ( Hear.)
Mr. TENNYSON was opposed to the Bill beiel
then, and intended to submit to the House an amen'
to the motion of the Noble Lord, with the vie? °l
taining time for further inquiry, in order to aecliere
complete information than was yet before the House.subject was one of the very highest importaocef
should not be dealt with upon imperfect information
had been alleged by the Noble Lord, and by the eret
of the measure elsewhere, that a proceeding of that
character had been rendered necessary by the attack'
upon Jurors ; but it was said that, so far back
mouth of May last, Jurors had been threatened. .
lee
not asserted that they were any more than threated
present ; but they were threatened, it was allege
that firmed the ground for abolishing the Trial bY
Those threats, bow ever, were uttered so far baclt
month of May last. Parliament was then
Ministers might have come down to that We'
demanded increased powers; but had they d°r
'
Neither then nor at present should he have e
to strengthening the hands of the Executive if eedier
casion demanded increased powers. But he altes,
denied that any such increased powers were reel_
Ia his judgment, they ought not to be resort;
until the ordinary powers of the Constitution bas
urged to the extreme limit, and turned to account
most effective manner. He would repeat, that til'
nary powers of the law ought to be put in force b,
course was had to such an extravagant and fearful
merit as that then before the House. In the re;
the Committee on the subject of the state of the
County, measures were recommended, the object'
was to increase the power of the Executive and stre
the hands of the local magistracy. He did not i°
ment hesitate to say, that if similar measures t"
recommended by the Committee en the Queen' re
%vete applied to Ireland generally, they would Ye";
produce tee effect of les.oring that country to !i
tranquillity. The grave and momentous veinal
the House had to determine was, whether or 110
sures of his Majesty's Government would bring •
results which were anticipated, or whether they el'
produce a directly contrary effect. Were not the
c;
I martial to decide upon some sort of evidence•-"'in eget
not witnesses coming before them in as great ea'
popular hostility as in coming before any other
Would they net in the one case, as in the other,
nable to the fury of the enraged populace ? its
nothing would be easier than to devise a tneasel
without violating the Constitutien, might have ti
of suppressing disturbance. Ireland had often
turbid in times past, and the. Insurrection Act
on several occ .stns found adequate to the
tranquillizing the country.—(Hear, bear.)
be favourable to a measure which wnell'e
Migistrates to call at the houses of susPe-te
suns, who, if not found at home, should be,
to account for their absence ; and if that abeeoce,
satisfactorily accounted for, that they should be
ta three months' imprisonment for the first off'
to severer penalties f any subsequent delimit
further objected to the present measure, on
that it gave those courtsmartial a power ever
which no Court should possess—it subjected
kind of pa eye forte et there. It they were fool
in or near any place where an outrage was
they might be called upon to give eviden,e,
refused, they might be imprisoned for three
deeply regretted that a rn.aaure of that nature
been brought forward by au Administration
ether respects, was proceeding in a course
jV tee, sae, smd who.
in them—an Administration which happf:
inenced a course of wise and remedial mean.
—measures which, he was sure, if they got bet,
would produce ti anscendent ffect.i. in trans
ui
land. On these grounds, then, lie trusted thatt
would pause before it sanctioned a proceedine
go a great way to neutralize all that a Wlf'e
inane spirit had previously acconipiishedr
was anything but in accordance with tie
of the measure them before the Htiae.
treated them to grant even a little
he purpose of en iblitig the House to be real'
with the state of the country. Of this the
'night assure themselves—that the people
regard that fatal step as a complete declaratl
and they would thus lose the advantage that
illy arise 'root the operation et those rem dial
which lie haul alluded upon the generous fe
ardent and p issienate people. He begged it
stood, that he was willing to strengthen
Government to a certain extent; and if the
that the Volunteer Association was really
should have no objection to epee to such a oat
suppression of that body, us he had support
introduced by the Right Hon. Member fer.
for putting down the Catholic Associatiee'
powers he should be willing to concede
Government, if they only made out a case
mittre, or at the bar of the House. 14e,
moving that the Bill be read a first tin„,-
fortnight.
Mr. E. L. BULWER said he should sweat
the Noble Lord, and take the least dispassiona
most constitutional, view of the argument' e
leave it to others to oppose these laws, betistle%o
tyrannical and oppressive. He opposed tl!
ground to which the Noble Lord invited hire'
would be in, fficacious—because they would ri°
objects for which they are demanded. 11:
must not suppose, because he and other Eng:
opposed these laws, that they denied the crud
isted in Ireland—or that they were unwilliogi
with Government in devising eotne reeel'
offences. What they complained of waste
powers will not obtain the remedy ; and,
even if they did, the remedy would be
disease. He contended that the remedy 'l'
the disease—a violation of law was a tel
suspension of law was a still greater one.
to read us catalogues of crime—that was
—prove to us how these laws will be apphe
—it was useless to tell us that in the present
was evil and danger—prove to us that there
evil and less danger in the law you dentat!'
laws will not obtain their object.---i° t'
what are the crimes for which the Noble
them ?—not for ordinary offences—tao• for
murder. It was instances of murder that the
had adduced. Would it be believed that on
very crime these laws did not embrace.
martial sits upon capital offences, but can
for life. Murder is not a transportable
du not receive, then, their sentence front
establish. You deal only with subordinate
attack the niisuletneanor, and you leag,e,,,
Again, what is the great grievance cotne:
Noble Lord in the administration of juste
witness dare not give evidence in a court,
e'er
son shrinks from arraigning the man
father. A terrible proof of the disorder td
lation of long and unvatied coercion leis br°,
fortunate country. He joined in latoriicle:
i
join in devising cures for it ; but there s "'
contemplated in your new powers. The
exposed to exactly the same danger in .theto
in a court of law. You may compel
hi
by the threat of imprisonment ; but whett
his evidence, how will you protect hues ?
pissed to the same danger—danger did ti s'":
much greater danger. For the new
odious than the old ; and in proporti.on ,
the tribunal, will be the vengeance again 9 61,01
t
but say his Majesty's Ministers,
.I,re.
country, and thereby disarm intimidatio
tat i
witness will become sale. Before
hi
the country, I apprehend that sum
ea!
witnesses will be shot at, i
_a order,orty
courage to rest. But pacify the
.tiO
by domiciliary visits, by courtstnartial
etle
rare pacification. The Right Hun. Ge _
been to Ireland in vain. He has learnt,
ence of practical Bulls—he would Facifyiain:l
(letting its people! But what is this tribo
take away the court of law beeau•e
• • s be a fair con'
under existing circuitistaPLe
tiff. You appoint, in its stead, a courtaia!
no possibility, can be a fair court for the
tribut.

to,;
Cittltti

ii 4 411 sa
; the tithes of b. 3,1
t,
lifflculty it' i° 1°
Ibe diredf- ,,:. tia
till, and t° ,!et,:e7ln.ia
bin!: 1 loge ~,,t,t uld h
ob. til Rove
th this s e
e,, 11
II tte• saes. 'n tri,',urar
,reAtIV 3P' Rh and nf
to address it,,it”trie,
le anything P,l,;,,thie
embracing, 1 , ~'lnecth4
ever, bound ;al ttatties,
ough Coo' ilf'Nee i
ne,,,,,paperst it 'ildatit`nsn
it has been 1),,.. ,in
e is keh litical
thee II . 4,141 .
re made the ei l'iatip• 'ttlii]
f Ire. till art Ite, h
state o ,it
tr 0
ai.-;airot per, 41.,
.Y ae.oPer
try for tonid° 101rittlitc,orade.4
be tovl recd
ban 01:
ea Ilitit 4 oit 0
11 being re I .and e
amencline3
view of ob' !. ti,te, oi
OallteEttli:Ceee.:jl;bre4e, bailedk'tttl:e.o4ollll eatleit::,,4,
rrn4tion. 0 ti.iti., y
tl
he pt" tri'lefat it, k'.el ~,°1
that rittte
ti,l bill
tl
attack, frj,iie ti,
.1'414 'ltte,
back 3'
eras ah,,41,,,t1a11y
ned. It t i ,t't ,t. 7,, to
ged kd `p e}eN t
rtribaahrl lita:cht;:::::,:!iji laiiitti i:;101. „I: 4 et
vial
sitting, °;ci i't!,,tlt"od, e
oil
at 1100 e 'Ol Itirrlibtoki t, ,
ey done led tht) to ati
have ohj'co4. ioit,'try !ljt
he altoget A .the y'
/f
ere requr,„ ~ tilt; 4 p
tceicornife'c:tabtdl :tee.: iiii:p4ltito:p'l'4l;f::::;
ecoutit Oordi, bpi,, l',,pran
that the re, ,to ito Au
bree IP Pre,riAta„'t di °l.l
fearful 'SP' of the
lilt f rIL
the rePri 4 tilk kl4'.ar ,
)f the aieeb°,l, t
Ne,,entaion
abject of *.tbeoPto,i,lthiet„p',
„d sere og
Iva, The 1 ,f 1 a
not for 804 klar,,ttht law
area tor oilf, If il,l . Rof
wren's "°,y,t 114 ,„,t, , ave
;uld vel ' of L kw"A r,:Y do
ptste.e it, ?.5V- to I
...,b,
thtrittti
t,
luesuon roo, Lit
til
or no the of
h'ul Ito Yfr Are
bring 3 14 /10 11,m titti
ty Oig nettle c..4:11t. th()
otter e e°o,6lto,ttih
0.
lce---30d
ogee fC041,k4 r f
;reat ti"otti It t,, ' .Peet
r other e° or *LI tli he,
tiler, be !eios that '44 intl'st
In bil 01)11,i, toti,nl 16 vdd
measure ss'eff.4 1101 °itt te list
have the ,e.ig,,, 4eltra
often
in Act 115,4 iila,;(taikt.lllol
the Port' bdi tst)::! (4'1%
7.) Ile 'O, 'tiol:‘'i ~ !re
would 3r, (t 6, , 4,,b41 pi
su,peeteo
oy 1,4,,,,,, ,
old be r`g Pic Ott; that
iLbu'ldeibce Ilsoe':;6 1111°it!l't,°t4o1:;:tttlia pi
first 9° be
Mean toetit 1
litqUeliei.ei'l4ltt ~ttt': ti•
•
on tbe (I,eit°L th.4411,,ia
.1! over "'I- ri 1 th-11; a
iected the'.., ,i be 01'' Il
l." o
ere fount, Y i iL k! rtil
oorni,il, , `st,kt,
was
ail tlvtlttlt4 fol
en,e, ant..
es
tmth. q
rev inonl
12,1.
Itit4tv t 1
ature sb(lhAN otia:,,ti
;ration *'. tie elk?, , , ti°:,., 01
roe c 9 !8
,'''k 4.44
Member!' ',lt o:4l4,ratttl,e 1
ip p Or
far', ferSijel t
,t,to
r'
~sure re% fait trirtkl?..„, A),
of but .61010f0,111/4.ltet \llea
tranqu' the PN 'llty.ll t,
ed that . h is' ,t'rtor 1 at,
limt whic pa'. 'NI,' N
wig
~,, ~,,,Nit}, tt\ re
a ' 'le ti,. tiii
het, alictlAfeot ', 'till ' 14'
h the 00 iiiit,t,,, i
,11
House. tioe.l4till 4..itt, ~.
little cosortle toillikt!'
~. really Bveroo fug to it' 4,, Il
s the 0" ji,:, ,Nt;4',l i
eof -Irel3°,,f i0.1*j,.;41 %I
ectaratioo e f 1",,, ih'he
g,;,:),eitutt4bitsci,eaiint:fietttteodibilieigeb:boebegiosajotr:ol:o;;:oftliratt:::2;l74:ti:ip't:lll4l,4i:l,:i
f they c° of, N2l, to,
laisllyrdeu3noagerecof"flortptrFt44:44.,ivtil
rted 3 "tor 4tl ii" the
'pp° ,r,,, . hiitu 0
or for sof let,
vde to P. $(3 t t‘pa, ei
ctoaegsi leletbe:(o°i:etibar:;:illtilff't
t? ;;;;!;111);:i),'
•st time o,,;tt,e, (),
tiiptat44
111,,,,
i accept tbiteelllattiY tt rkle
itsusiieonnta. ePotv'e rkfl,titorktt,ztt,;:::il4.l
, becatl'eui e",itt4 1,,1l y RI
osed the ..sofe 'v
11, l',ii°lll
11 hint, he 01,0? 'to noi ,
i'
rio.uEl do H
ushgo.: t "Ititiveite ,tt:
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