The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-14 00:00:00

THE. SITN, LONDON,

out any investigation, we are to suppose those great and
unfair burdens are placed upon the land. _Now, oily
opinion is with respect to this question, as with respect
to the general question, that, in conformity with
what is stated in her Majesty's speech, the burdens on
the land are every day becoming less, owing to the in-
creasing prosperity of the ether classes of the community.
We know very well that a century ago there was a land-tax
amounting to 35., 45., or ss. in every '2os., and that when
the rent of land was not one-fourth of what it is at present.
It has been stated by the Hon. Member that the land now
pays 2,000,000/. sterling, but if that is so, I say that sum is
payable out of 40,000,000 i. of land, when formerly it was
payable out of 10,000,0001. That is a very great diminution.
But with respect to the local rates there is also a diminution
going on by the great increase which is taking place in the
case of other incomes. This increase has taken place in
houses, in mines, in canals, in railways; all these classes
have been coming up and taking a large portion of the
burdens which were formerly paid by the land. We
heard it stated by my Right Honourable Friend (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) that only a few years
ago land paid 64 per cent., and now it is paying not
more than 44 per cent, of the whole of these burdens.
Why, that alone, if it is true, as I have no doubt it is, is a
very great change in favour of the landed interest; and if
you will allow these proceedings to go on, if you will permit
people to invest money in industrious enterprises and to get
the fixed capital which belongs to those enterprises, you are
doing a greater favour to the land than ifyou attempt to inter-
fere with the present state of the law respectingcorn. The Hon.
Gentleman states it is a very easy thing for a person in the
position of my Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) to say, with respect to any particular burden
which has been removed from the class whose interest he ad-
vocates, let that burden be transferred to the consolidated
fund. No doubt it is an easy thing to say; possibly that
may be no difficult thing to do; but it is a very unjust thing
to do, because this fund is not a treasure that my Right
Honourable Friend has the charge of, and out of which
any sum can be taken as it is wanted, but it is a fund created
by a tax on the necessaries of the people, by a tax on the
tea, coffee, sugar, and by various other taxes which affect
the working-classes. The policy which has been pursued
since 1832 has been to apply the means which were derived
from surplus revenue to the diminution of those burdens
which pressed on the labour and industry of the country.
That was the policy which Sir Robert Peel, by virtue
of the sum he obtained from the income-tax, introduced
into legislation,—that is the policy which we have pursued
since we have been in office, and on the same principle we
have adopted measures of the same kind. I stated, I think,
last year, that with respect to sugar alone the 200,000 tons
which this country formerly consumed can be obtained at
5,000,0001. less than formerly, while, from the introduction
of an increased quantity, not as much as 1,000,000/. is lost to
the revenue. During the war, when large loans were made
every year, while our trade was very much a trade of mono-
poly, the Chancellor of the Exchequer found himself under
the necessity of putting a very heavy duty on articles of gene-
ral consumption among the people ; but, after so many years
of peace, it is possible to diminish these duties, and not only
to obtain a large relief to the people, but we do not even
injure the revenue. The House has heard it stated by my
Right Hon. Friend that, after reducing nearly 10,000,0001.
of taxation, and putting on little more than 5,000,0001.,
the balance of nearly 5,000,0001. had been nearly restored to
the Chancellor of the Exchequer by the increased field of
labour and by the energy and industry of the people. Well,
then, I ask what there is to induce the House to change
the present system ? With respect to revenue, as I have
shown you, there is no reason to change, because it is
found to be sufficient, and there is a surplus in the Exche-
quer. With respect to the Poor-law and the general em-
ployment of the poor, you find that the latter has increased
in the agricultural counties, and that the cost of poor
relief this year has been 10 per cent under the
former year. In looking to the question of crime, I find
that the number of persons committed in 1848 was 30,249 ;
in 1849, 27,862; in 1850, 26,793; showing a diminu-
tion from 1848 to 1850 of not less than 3,556 persons.
(Hear, hear.) Well then, if with respect to the employment
of the people, if with respect to finance, and if with respect
to the state of crime you have a great advantage, in what
respect are you injured by the present sj stem itself, or in the
general state of the kingdom and in the political tranquillity
which prevails throughout? No one, I think, who has well
considered the events of the last two years, will deny that
the abrogation of the corn-laws has tended most materially
to the tranquillity of the country, or that, when the people
might have been induced, by the example of revolutions
in almost !very country on the continent, to follow that
example, they have been induced to refrain by seeing that
the Legislature was not indifferent to their welfare. I beg
of you not to reverse that lesson. Those great questions of
government—the question of absolute government on one
side and of liberty on the other—are not yet settled, and
may be determined in favour of one party or of the other.
You may see absolute government restored to its former
state ; you may see a democratic revolution at least for a
time ; but, whatever may be the result, I should be most
grieved if I thought the great mass of the people of this
country were induced, by the restoration of laws which
enhance the price of food, to consider that, by imitating
the example of the democracies on the continent, they
could gain any advantage which they could not
now obtain, or increase the prosperity they are de-
riving from the ancient institutions of this country.—
(Hear, hear.) I hope this House will countenance no such
restoration. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham)
has alluded, with that feeling which became him, to the
loss we have sustained in the death of a great statesman,
who began this course of legislation ; and,without ever having
been a friend of his, I hope I may be permitted to show his
friends that I am not indifferent to his fame.—(Cheers.)
Love of fame—" that last infirmity of noble minds"—be-
longed to him as to others. He did wish that his name
_ .

should be hallowed in the gratitude of his country, and I,
for my part, could wish that, while I am consolidating the
present interests of this empire, I may be providing for his
fame in future generations.—(Cheers.) That fame can only
be sufficiently secured by the permanence of the policy with
which his name is identified, and to which he was able to
induce you to agree. For this, as well as for other reasons I
have stated, I should most deeply lament the reversal of the
policy which, for nearly ten years, has been adopted by you.
I can assure the Huuse that no consideration respecting the
position or the fate of the Government affects me nearly so
much as the fear I should have of seeing that policy re-
versed. lily belief is that the owners and occupiers of land
in general would then be induced to turn their attention from
those plans fur the improvement of the soil which they are
new. to their great credit, pursuing, to a political course,
which could only end in disappointment.—(llear.) I be-
lieve that the mind of the country in general would be irri-
tated against its institutions, and that it would be long be-

tore we saw again that tranquillity and content of which we
have now to boast, and which even the mover of the propo-
sition before the House has not ventured to deny.— (Bear,
hear.) In the name, then, of the general interests of the
country, and in the name of the whole mass of the people, I
ask the House not to consent to the present motion.
Mr. DISRAELI rose to reply. He hoped the House would
not think him unreasonable if at the close of a debate so im-
portant and protracted he availed himself of the privilege
of reply ; and, if in exercising that privilege, he attempted to
recall the attention of the House to the substance of the
motion which was now before them. The House, he trusted,
would recollect that they were now at the commencement of
a new session of Parliament—that the Lords and Commons of
England had just heard a most gracious speech delivered
from the Throne, in which, though the Queen was advised
to congratulate them upon the prosperity of the country,
her Majesty nevertheless deplored the continued difficulties
under which one class of her subjects confessedly laboured.
He was sure that Hon. Gentlemen would not think him
unreasonable when he asserted that the House should take
such a message into their immediate consideration; that they
should inquire into the cause of that distress, and if possible
indicate the measures by which it might be remedied. With
this view of the subject, and believing that the class
which were suffering suffered in consequence of the
undue pressure of taxation, and remembering, too,
that the agriculturists were the only suffering class,
he called upon them deliberately to consider that
question. Now, he could not help observing that
though really the question did not on the present evening
form the subject of debate—(Loud cheers)—he hoped it
would be recollected that he endeavoured to secure a fair
discussion for that question by stating its merits as fully and
as frankly as he could. It was therefore with much regret
he had observed that other subjects not connected with his
motion had been introduced into the debate.—(Hear, hear.)
He had not made any attack upon the new commercial sys-
tem of this country. If he had thought protection the only
specific for the evils under which the farmers were labouring
he should not have proposed a renewal of protection with re-
ference to the interest of a single class; and after the cir-
cumstances 'which had occurred with regard to the great
industrial question, he did not think it would be right to re-
suscitate in Parliament the discussion of that subject, but
rather leave it to be settled out of doors by the great
majority of the country. And now he would ask, looking
to the terms of his motion, if he had not proved his case?
The positions which he laid down were, that the owners and
occupiers of land were suffering more than any other class;
that our financial system was established in the days of
protection, and that it was a system which protection
alone could justify—a system which could only be tolerated
under protection. Parliament had withdrawn that aid,
and the consequences were now before them.—(Hear, hear.)
Had he come forward and asked them to restore those laws,
and to abrogate the laws that they had enacted? No, what
he required of them was this, that in the boasted hour of
their success, in the full flash of their prosperity, with only
one class suffering, he asked them to inquire whether they
could not discover the cause of that suffering, and in the
spirit of that political justice which the Hon. Member for the
West Riding despised—(Hear, hear)—whether they could
not relieve that distress by a diminution of their burdens?
—(Hear, hear.) He believed he might assert that not one
of the positions for which he contended had been overturned.
Could any one deny that two-thirds of the taxes which he
enumerated were raised from the class on whose behalf he
had addressed the House. There was paid by the British
farmers a revenue equal to that of the whole Austrian em-
pire. But it was said that the consumers paid those taxes
—that question be would now leave to the House to decide
—( Hear, hear)—but no one could forget that at the very
moment when that question came before them the Prime
Minister was telling the farmers to grow no more wheat;
tobacco they could net grow; barley they could not grow
with any great prospects of success; and now he would
repeat his former question. Had any of his state-
ments been successfully disputed ? The evidence
of the Secretary for the Treasury and a more
competent witness there could not be—the Govern-
ment published in the form of a pamphlet, and then
it was asked, had he not settled the question for ever? Bet
what the farmers demanded was that their case should be
taken into consideration and fairly dealt with by those who
boasted of prosperity and appealed to their coffers, but who
at the same time admitted that they bad obtained their
prosperity and replenished their
were accustomed takingcoffersbeynstomed to
away
enjoy.the
advantages which the farmers
(Hear, hear.) He hoped, then, that the House would
they were
were undulytoreallygoing
taxed;decide
nagrameeelyw,itwhhheitmhears
orwhat
o notthe
farmers
wa nadif h
s it tnoatt questionthe
duty
ofm theu s t
Minister
iste answeredrto b
bring the hfeo
nya ffia
rrdm ati
some
e,
measure to remove the injustice which had not been success-
fully denied, and which no one ever ventured to say was
exaggerated. Further, if the Noble Lord had any con-
fidence in the opinion which he had that evening
conveyed across the table, he was not justified in coun-
selling the Queen to declare from the throne that the
land was the only sufferer. Such advice might have pro-
ceeded from divided counsels, and a distracted Cabinet—
(rC
ou heers)—but there was nothing to justify it. He should
discussion
Chancellor
unupsci
sreeielostl
nohe
present
last
sfHousettyh ea occasion,e Er xi with hhy
,heoeognuoemenor
ee: twotrwhisgh
roe
wtotateant
dsi
ee
absent
nsooetrbne state
hnfr
ravtoanamgt
he
antagonist,
dss
similard,
tt Onhhee
cause of that absence, and he feared, also, that the small
majority of 21 must have had the effect f retardinglao thh.e
recovery of the Right Honourable Gentleman.—
From that time to the present the Right Hon. Gentleman
had been busy in repairing the consequences of his com-
parative defeat, and in the present year he delivered to the
House the speech which, had he been well enough, he
would have made last year.--(Laughter.) The Chancellor
of the Exchequer had been advised and cautioned not to rely
fornompoothre.lfriolt.alital;elgaut rhetoricuiter .could keep him away
) Right Elm

Gentleman was an ablebodied labourer receiving good wages
—not excessive, but in full work and good wages, yet
nothing could keep him from prowling about the workhouse.
—(Renewed laughter.) Whenever they came into collision
les always found the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the
workhouse, and in the workhouse he would leave him.—
( Shouts of laughter.) In the Right Hon. Member for
Ripon be also found an old antagonist, who put on his
best armour that night, but who, when he embarked on the
navigation-laws, did not make a very fortunate voyage. The
Right Hon. Gentleman's account of France was somewhat
perplexing and almost contradictory. The fundholders having
investments in the French funds had increased from 200,000
to 800,000, yet hoarding had also increased, which state-
ments were not easily reconcileable with each other. Land
was going out of cultivation, yet great quantities of corn
were arriving by every steamer for the London market. The
Right Hon. Gentleman asked how our establishments and the
public faith could be maintained, if the assumed policy which
he represented Uinta (the Protectionists) as advocating, was
adopted. Why there was no class more interested in main-
taining the national faith than the owners and occupiers of
land. All they said was—" Dont't let us contributemore than
our quota to that object." The days were past, according to
the Right Hon. Gentleman, when justice could be obtained by
them. But they begged to inform him, through so humble an
organ as himself, that they knew the reason why.—(Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Baronet said, " W hat ? Propose a repeal of
the malt-tax ! Monstrous !" Now he (Mr. Disraeli) did not
propose the repeal of the malt-tax, or the abrogation of the
tobacco laws. He referred to them as grievances, and had
called upon the House to see if they could rot wisely deal
with them.—(A laugh.) The Right Hon. Baronet said that
Lord Stanley would not sanction the repeal of the malt-tax.
Bnt he (Mr. Disraeli) knew a Right Hon. Gentleman who
once would sanction a repeal of the malt-tax.—( Vociferous
cheering and much laughter.) His Right Hon. Critic—(A
laugh)—was followed by a great authority, who made a
laboured eulogium of the new commercial system, and who
told the House, for their consolation, that a great social and
economical revolution was going to take place. The Hon.
Member for Liverpool had also favoured the House with some
particulars relative to the manufactures of Massachusetts,
which he said he bad obtained in private from an American
gentleman. Now this information was not confirmed by the
facts which he (Mr. Disraeli) had obtained, not, he admitted,
from private authority; and he should have thought the
Hon. Gentleman was a person of too much knowledge al-
ways to believe everything said by an American gentle-
man in private.—(Laughter.) But then the Hon. Mem-
ber for Liverpool said, " See how the commercial world
were distressed in 1847, yet they did not come to the
House of Commons to assist them I" He (Mr. Disraeli)
should have been surprised if they had. He was one of the
Committee who had to inquire into the general distress of
that period, and he found that a great deal of that distress
had been produced by unprincipled gambling and over specu-
lation in the commercial world.—(Cheers.) What analogy
was there between the distress occasioned by long bills
and undue speculation, and the difficulties and the depression
of that important class—the owners and occupiers of land,
which Honourable Members opposite had themselves ac-
knowledged had been occasioned by their own legislation ?
(Cheers.) The Honourable Member for Liverpool added
that the commercial world had gained 50,000,0001. by the
recent acts of legislation. Now that he (Mr. Disraeli) thought
a sufficient answer to all financial reformers.—(Cheers.)
And he hoped that they should have no motions during the
present session for the reduction of any taxation except that
which affected the agricultural interest.—(Cheers and
laughter.) He now approached the oracle of the West Riding.
—(A laugh.) Thelion. Gentleman (Mr. Cobden) said that
he and his friends had avowed their intention to obtain com-
pensation for the repeal of the corn-laws. The Hon. Member
was quite mistaken. It was a demand for justice, and, if
the Hon. Member liked the word better —for compen-
sation, not for the repeal of the corn-laws, but for the un-
just taxation that the agricultural interest were now bur-
dened with, which was a very different state of the case.
The Hon, Gentleman asked how it could be pretended that
he and his friends had entered into any compact whereby a
certain price should be secured to the farmers. Now, there
were gentlemen who were glib with their estimates, and
those gentlemen did not sit upon the Protectionist benches.
With the recklessness of audacious ignorance they had fa-
voured the world with calculations of the probable conse-
quences of the legislation they advocated ; and, notwith-
standing the grave assertion of the Hon. Member for the
West Riding, that he was not one of those persons, he (Mr.
Disraeli) fixed him as the prime offender in that respect.—
(Cheers and laughter.) What were the words the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Cobden) made use of? He said that,
" Without pretending to look into futurity— (A laugh)—he
knew no better test of the probable price of corn in this
country than the price in the island of Jersey, for a number
of years. In Jersey, during the ten years from 1832
to 1841, inclusive, the average price of wheat was 48s 4d.
a quarter, the average price in England during those
years being 565. He had taken some pains to consult
these documents."—(Cheers.) Now the Honourable Gen-
tleman had accused him (Mr. Disraeli) of assuming that a
certain price had been compacted for between the Protec-
tionists and their opponents, and he said that no one on his
side of the House had dreamed of calculating what the price
of wheat would be. The Hon. Member for the West Riding
went on to say—" He had taken some pains to consult witu
those best acquainted with the subject —(a man of research,
they saw—(Laughter)—and he had formed the opinion, that
a constant demand from England would have raised the
level of the prices in Jersey 2s. or 3e. a quarter during the
above period," the consequence of which would have been
that the average price in England would have exceeded 50s.
a quarter.—(Loud cheers.) Then the Hon. Member for the
West Riding said, " What proof of distress have you?"
His answer to that was her Majesty's speech.—(Uheers.) At
this hour of the night, and in this adjourned debate, he
would not go into this subject, but would leave the sym-
pathizing Cabinet to afford the Hon. Gentleman and his
friends all the information that had authorized the insertion
of that paragraph in the Royal Speech.—(Cheers and laugh-
ter.) The Hon. Gentleman said the iron trade was suffer-
ing; the cotton trade was not so well off as it had been; and,
in fact, he (Dlr. Disraeli) thought the general prosperity
was melting away.—(Laughter.) Yet these interests, be
added, did not come to Parliament to complain, or to
ask for relief. Well, if the House would not interfere
with the agricultural interest, and would not load their pro-
duce with taxation, they would not come to it either when
they suffered. The Hon. Member told them to-night that
the malt-tax was not a burden upon the farmer, but that the
duty was paid by the consumer. But only a year ago he was
of a different opinion. What! did the lion. Gentleman
shake his head? Did he not on the 12th of January, 1849,
sympathise with the farmer about the burden of the malt-
tax? He (Mr. Disraeli) had it before him. There it watt,—
" Cobden on the Malt-Tax."—(Cheers and laughter.) It
began :—" We sympathise with the farmers. We will not
tolerate Is. by way of protection. But we will co-operate
with them in getting rid of that obnoxious tax, the malt
duty."—(Much laughter and cheering.) "We owe to the
farmers something, and we will try to pay them in kind"—
(Laughter)—and here he might say, that when the Hon.
Gentleman recommended leases as a remedy, and some Hon.
Gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the House
treated it with what the Hon. Gentleman considered derision,
let him inform the Hon. Gentleman that it was not a senti-
ment of derision at the abstract idea of leases, but that the
Hon. Gentleman should suppose that leases were things not
in existence. He dared say there were very few gentlemen
on that side of the House who had not granted
leases, and who had very much reduced their
head of game—(Hear, hear)—and that was why gentlemen
dared to receive the recommendation with something like
derision, as if the Honourable Member had made a state-
ment stamped with any character of originality.—(Hear,
bear, and laughter.) He had little to say on the speech of
the First Minister. He looked upon the First Minister on
this question as being in a very unhappy position.— (Laugh-
ter.) He had for him all the sympathy which the Hon.
Member for the West Riding had for the occupiers of land—
(Laughter)—and when the First Minister told them that
his resolution was the most dangerous proposal that ever
was made to the House, he asked the Noble Lord why he
gave such frank encouragement by the paragraph in the
Queen's Speech to produce it ?—(Loud cheers.) Why, his
resolution—the most dangerous proposal ever made to the
House—was almost an echo of that speech, and the logi-
cal consequences of the admissions of the Noble Lord.—
(Hear, hear.) His advice to his Hon. Friend was not to be
frightened with the latter part of the speech of the Noble
Lord. It was one of those stereotyped formulas of rhetoric
that upon this subject it was the fashion to adopt, not only
on the Treasury benches, but also on the part of some
benches on that (the Opposition) side of the House.—(Hear.)
But the people of this country—he meant all classes of the
community—would never think that a dangerous proposition
which courted inquiry, and which only sought for its object
a fair adjustment of the public turdens.—(Cheers.) He had
too good an opinion of the -sense and public spirit of the
manufacturers themselves to suppose that any great number
of manufacturers would look upon this proposition as one of
the most dangerous that was ever made to that House....--
(Hear, hear.) He gave his prosperous fellow-subjects full
credit for this, that if they believed there was undue pres-
sure, especially on the industry of that virtuous class, the
farmers of England, they would be glad to see the unfair
pressure upon that industry removed.—(Hear, hear.) All
these attempts to invest this purely fiscal question with
great political consequences and rich political colouring were
mere pleasantries of the Noble Lord.—(A laugh.) The
Noble Lord did not believe them himself, and did not believe
that any one in that House would believe them.—(Laughter.)
They were to go to distant provinces to persuade them that
there was a great conspiracy against the rights and liberties of
the people. He read that morning an awful, though anony-
mous manifesto from that quarter which always struck him
with terror—(A laugh)—Olympian bolts; but he could not
help fancying the rumbling sounds concealed the plaintive
treble of the Treasury bench.— ( A laugh.) There they were
told in that mighty organ of what was called
public opinion, that the owners and occupiers of
land were a very insignificant class ; that they
had better not stir themselves, or their insignifi-
cance would be discovered. Now, be was not one of those
who ever indulged in those statistical calculations which
were too rife, in his opinion, as to the comparative import-
ance of the different classes of this country; they were not
generally very accurate ; they were always, he thought, in-
judicious, and might do a great deal of mischief. An ac-
count of the general property of the country, of its wealth,
numbers, and intelligence, was always interesting; but no-
thing was more hateful than to see class arrayed against
class by rival calculations of their relative importance.—
(Cheers.) But still he might be permitted to say this on
behalf of the agricultural interest, on behalf of the classes
connected with land, that he did not think that in numbers,
in propety, in wealth, in public virtue or in private worth,
they were inferior to any other class of the community.—
(Hear, hear.) He might say more. because he observed
tcqub
oouap
country
t consideredrtoayhnna,
and in
entirely
inthat occasion,otherhine dependent
existenceatdbne
those
db
sa evt ee
statistical
yc
uponooo fnft en
Inercei
tunlmeea dnt
agriculture—seemeddhwei
tcourse
the
et
hmis i ol
l f that
importantde-
Nt:
ear
s
a
nneittgael
eildienturclvaonetmni calculations.—(
theretl IKh iernehopedgadteho(eneut never
United
wso,n
Kingdom
otHmh stillao Honourable
oothuharemtayebuvwlceehroGug
leusdnpatinrlrteoi
quarter they
beti Gentlemen
edw3,ag,ould not be frightened by
mys-
ticaly
references of the First Minister, or the more authorita-
tive, more decided threats that might reach them from any
not believe
thattliis
he motion—and
wa other quarter. He hoped Hon. Gentlemen, if they believed
his duty—would feel in future that their part was
more activity in defending the interests of the tenantry One
of
of
this country.—(Cheers.) This was mainly a farmer's
question. No one had met his argument about rent, which
showed the fallacy of that barbaro 1 uses ang that had been too
long prevalent. It was a farmer's question. Upon the
farmers the pressure for years had been too severe; it was
now increasing. From motives he could appreciate, and
feelings of delicacy he could comprehend. the owners of the
soil had not stood forward to vindicate as they ought to have
done the interests of the tenantry.— (Hear, hear.) He hoped
that this was the commencement of a new era in that re-
spect, and that no man, whether owner or occupier, would
hereafter be ashamed or afraid of asking from an English
Parliament that justice to which every English subject was
entitled.—(Cheers.)
Mr. BIUNTZ wished in one word to explain the grounds
upon which he should vote for the motion of the Honourable
Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had made the
Queen express her hope for the owners and occupiers of
land, The Rios lion. Gentleman the Preaident of the