The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, April 30.
The Earl of DEL AWARE presented a petition from
certain inhabitants and under-graduates of Cambridge,
against the admission of dissenters to degrees in the univer-
sity. They also complained of the practice, that was allowed
by the church, of dissenters burying their dead in the church-
yards. The noble earl stated that in his opinion the
granting of the prayer of the dissenters would be entirely
subversive of the religion of the country as practised at the
universities. .

The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several peti-
tions against the new Beer Act.
The Bishop of LONDON presented several petitions
for the better observance of the Sabbath.
REPEAL OF THE UNION.

Mr. SPRING RICE and others brought up a report
from the Commons, desiring a conference with their lord-
ships, " upon a matter connected with the stability of the
country, the peace of the empire, and the welfare of
all classes of his Majesty's subjects."
The question was then put, and the messengers called
in and acquainted that their lordships had agreed to the
conference. . .

Lord TEYNHAM was about presenting several peti-
tions praying for a repeal of the union, when he was inter-
rupted by the Usher of the Black Rod, who appeared at
the bar and informed their lordships that the Commons
were ready for the conference.
The following managers were then appointed on the
the part of the Lords to confer with the managers on the
part of the Commons in the painted chamber :--The Mar-
quis of Lansdowne, the Archbishop of Cashel, the Duke of
Wellington, the Earl of Winchilsea, Lord Charlemont,
Earl Grey, and the Marquis of Conyngham. Their lord-
ships thentproceeded to the conference, and on their return
the Marquis of Lansdowne stated that the managers had
had the conference nd had received a communication of
an address which had been agreed to by the Commons, to
which they desired the concurrence of this house.
The address was as follows :
" We, your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects,
the Commons, in Parliament assembled, feel it our duty
humbly to approach your Majesty's throne, to record in
the most solemn manner our fixed determination to main-
tain unimpaired and undisturbed the legislative union be-
tween Great Britain and Ireland, which we consider to be
essential to the strength and stability of the empire, to the
continuance of the connection between the two countries,
and to the peace and security and happiness of all classes
of your Majesty's subjects.
" We feel this our determination to be as much justified
by our views of the general interests of the state, as by
our conviction that to no other portion of your Majesty's
subjects is the maintenance of the legislative union more
important than to the inhabitants of Ireland themselves.
We humbly represent to your Majesty, that the im-
perial parliament have taken the affairs of Ireland into
their most serious consideration, and that various salutary
laws have been enacted since the union, for the advance-
ment of the interests of Ireland, and of the empire at large.

" In expressing to your Majesty our resolution to main-
tain the legislative union inviolate, we humbly beg leave
to assure your Majesty, that we shall persevere in apply-
ing our best attention to the removal of all just causes of
complaint, and to the promotion of all well-considered
measures of improvement."
Lord TEYNHAM then presented the petition in which
he had been previously interrupted.
The Archbishop of YORK presented several petitions
for the better observance of the Sabbath.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE stated that on a former
occasion he had mentioned a music meeting which was
about to be held inWestminsterAbbey. He begged then to
give notice that on Friday next he would bring forward a
motion on the subject, with a view to prevent what he be-
lieved would be a desecration of that sacred building.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE then presented some petitions
against the Beer Bill.
Earl GREY then rose and said—My Lords, in rising
to propose
communicatedropose that you
t usohuosu,lidnttaokyeouthreimamddredeisaste, whiehhasjust
been consideration,
I feel it due to make a few observations in justification of
that course. My lords, it has not been unusual in cases of
great and urgent importance to adopt that course; and
what case, my lords, could be of greater or of
more urgent importance than one which involved the
repeal of the union with Ireland—in other words involving
a question, not merely of the prosperity and power, but
of the peace and wellbeing of the kingdom. (Cheers. )
Great, however, as is the question, and urgent as are the
motives which urge me to ask for such a speedy decision
upon the subject, still I would certainly not have pressed
for it without affording time for a further consider-
ation of the matter, if I did not think, that
upon this question, which has already been for so
long a time before the country—the evils of which
have been perceived by almost all classes, which has
occupied the House of Commons five days in de-
bating it, when everything was brought forward in its
support, but which has been passed by a majority such as,
perhaps, VMS never seen before—had I not felt confident
that upon such a question your lordships would be una-
nimous in opinion, I repeat, that I would not have
pressed it forward without giving time for mature con-
sideration. (Cheers.) I have stated that this is a question
which, in my opinion, involves the peace, and safety, and inte-
grity of the British empire. If your lordships look at what has
happened of late years—if you consider the principles on
which the question has been agitated, the views which
the friends of it have put forth, and the results which they
had stated they intended to produce by it—who can
believe, looking at these things, but that the same evil
spirits which have created it will continue to in-
crease in power, and succeed in establishing a
power which will be most detrimental to the best
interests of the empire--not so much, perhaps, of
this part of the empire as of that which is more imme-
diately concerned in the question—lreland itself—by pro-
ducing such a mass of confusion and ruin as will annihilate
the country itself? (Loud and continued cheering. )
My lords, I feel strongly upon this question, and many as
are the points and the proofs which I could bring forward
in support of the motion, yet the question being one unfor-
tunately so familiar to your lordships—one on which
no new light can be thrown, I shall not deem it neces-
sary to occupy any large space of your lordships' time. For
can it be said to be necessary to prove by details that, con-
nected as these two great branches of the empire are by the
legislative union, a dissolution of that union—not only
between the government but also between the people—
that that separation must of necessity produce the separa-
tion of all those ties by which the two countries were bound
together, and would produce such a state of things as after
a deluge of blood, would not only end to the great injury
of the two countries, but more especially of that part of the
United Kingdom, Ireland ? (Hear.) My lords, I think it
only necessary to make these general observations upon a
questioncon e ur renocno whoi I
fch
your t h i n
lordships.
I m o
rd
sh
iay ps
. anticipateH eaHear,
theh unanimousear.
)The
term forcibleina t
i argu-
ments; u
to -
men
address which has been sent up from the other
housets s. tai ttes
firstthe
stateswhol e
the question
o
necessityin thfe our most
odset
support the legislative union between the two countries ; it
staYes what I have already endeavoured to state to your
lordships, the necessity of preserving that connexion for the
security of both countries, and it also states the benefits
which Ireland has received from that union. It is not ne-
cessary for me to state, that the people of Ireland have
been told that nothing but misery has been produced
by that union, and that they have derived no advantage from
it ; while the very contrary, in fact, has been produced.
Let your lordships examine the details of this question,
so far as relates to the commerce and manufactures of Ire-
land, in spite of the agitation which has prevailed in that
country, and then put your hands on your hearts, and
say conscientiously, whether the situation of Ireland has
not been materially advanced and improved by the union.
My lords, I lament those impediments that are thrown in
the way of its commerce, and I look with horror
at that extending misery, and likewise at that in-
creasing danger to the government of the country
which must be the consequence of a continuance of
that excitement, which we are called upon by every
motive of conscience and duty, by the first principle
of self preservation, by a regard for the interests
of Ireland, and by a solemn duty to support
the
imperial Crown of this realm, we are called upon to
use
our utmost efforts to put down. My lords, that spirit
of insubordination and violence which has been for some
time so wickedly, for I cannot use any other term—that has
been
so wickedly excited (Cheers) must be put down ;
there can be no compromise (Cheers); it must be put

down by a strong arm, or else the Government and the
prosperity of both countries will be entirely destroyed.
I trust, therefore, my lords, that your lordships will concur
in the address, which meets the pledge you have already
given to the crown, of your determination to support it, and
resisting that spirit which has already worked so many evils,
and which will produce more if not effectually prevented.
My lords, acting in the spirit of that determination, I will
pledge his 'Majesty's government to use the power vested
in them, fearlessly and resolutely to support the interests
of both countries, and more especially the interests of that
deluded people, whom the endeavours that are made to ex-
cite, if they should prove successful, will inevitably ruin.
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") My lords, I do not know
that it is worth while for me to enter at present into
a charge that has been made against me, as if I were
doing something most unjust in supporting strenuously
as I now do, considering it to be a vital question, the conti-
nuance and maintenance of the legislative Union of the
two countries, having been one of those who, at the
time that legislative union was proposed, had given it
their opposition. (Rear, hear, hear.) My lords, I did
so, and I did so, I trust, conscientiously. I did so at a time
when I was acting almost alone in the House of Commons,
for it was during the time that Mr. Fox did not attend there.
The feeling that I had on the subject was strong, and the
opposition I gave to the measure was such as my feeble
powers would permit ; but does it follow as a consequence
that after the existence of that union for more than
a quarter of a century? (Hear, hear, hear), after it has so
closely and strongly linked the two countries together_
after it has become part of the system of the government,
the undoing and destruction of which must be attended with
most calamitous consequences—is it, I say, incumbent
on me, as a matter of consistency, in such an altered state
of things, to allow of that being undone, the undoing of
which would prove the destruction of the country? ( Cheers. )
My lords, it is a received axiom in law upon many occa-
sions,
Fieri timiat, sed factum valet ;
and I might shelter myself under that principle, and say
that I would resist the repeal, but looking back at the cir-
cumstances of the times, and recollecting the feeling by
which the parties were actuated who proposed the union,
and looking also at what has passed since, and above
all seeing the manner in which the union has operated to
the advantage of Ireland, I must say that I think I was
mistaken in the course I then took. ( Hear, hear.) I
do not think, • my lords, that it is any departure
from consistency to maintain an opinion at the present
moment upon such a subject different from that which I
entertained some time since. ( Hear, hear.) What-
ever imputations it may . bring upon me when
I see reason to change the opinions which I formerly en-
tertained upon any great subject, I shall not fail to avow
it. My lords, I have vindicated my conduct upon this
subject in other instances, and I shall be prepared to
vindicate it in the present whenever the imputation shall be
made against me. (Hear, hear.) Under the present
circumstances, . my lords, I feel myself bound to support
the determination so ably and properly expressed in the ad-
dress sent up to this house from the House of Commons
in which I trust your lordships will concur nemine dissente.
(Hear, hear.) The legislature, my lords, has already
passed many laws with a view to the advantage and
improvement of Ireland, and the address states that
it will continue to persevere in those remedial mea-
sures, the object of which will be to remove all causes
of complaint. ( Hear, hear.) My lords, I dwell upon this
more particularly in consequence of what fell from a noble
baron on the cross bench. I was glad to hear him say that he
was not one who would support a repeal of the legislative
union. He, however, threw out insinuations, if not posi-
tive assertions, that hitherto the Irish people had been ne-
glected
and ill-used. My lords, I deny that statement,
in toto. ( Cheers.) I say, my lords, that much has been'
done, and that much remains to be done for the
good of Ireland, and that parliament is engaged in
a course of measures for that purpose. No man, my
lords, is more sincerely desirous than I am to persevere
in that good work for the support of peace and goodwill in
Ireland, on which all the interests of that country
depend, and which, if put an end to, will be attended with
absolute ruin to that unhappy country. ( Cheers.) My lords,
having thus generally stated my view of this subject, and the
object of the address, I do not feel that, upon an occasion
when I anticipate no opposition, it would be becoming
in me to trespass further on your lordships' time.
( Hear, hear, hear.) I shall conclude by moving,
with all * the sincerity and warmth the occasion calls
for, an address which I think does not go too far in asking
his Majesty to maintain inviolate the union between this
country and Ireland. (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
My lords, such a course will have the beneficial
effect of convincing the deluded people of Ireland that the
course they have been engaged in, for some time past, will
be attended with nothing but ruin to themselves, and
that by altering that course they will give the best hope
and promise of their future obedience to the laws, by which
they will advance the interests of their country. ( Hear. )
I derive considerable confidence as to the manner in which
this address will be estimated by the whole country. I feel
this ' confidence from the votes of last night which
appear in the papers now on the table before your
lordships, by which this address appears to have been car-
ried in the other house by a majority unparalleled
in the annals of parliamentary history. (Great cheer-
inc.) I also feel this confidence when I look to the
other side of the question, and find that only 38 of the Irish
members, or, I believe, tellers included, only 39 voted for
the question of repeal, but 59 Irish members, voted against,
consequently, of the Irish members themselves, notwith-
standing all the arts used during the last election, there is
a considerable majority in favour of this address. (Cheers.)
In Ireland, it is not true that the general feeling is in favour
of repeal. And whatever feeling has been produced in its
favour is the result of the most mischievous proceedings.
Indeed the wealth and intelligence, and the great majority
of numbers, will support the union ; and, feeling confident
of the success of this measure, and that your lordships will
support the authority of the laws, while, at the same time,
as far as human means can, you will correct any real cause
of complaint, I conclude by moving that this house do
agree to the said address.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—My lords, I am sure
it must be unnecessary for me, in rising to second the mo-
tion of my noble friend, to detain your lordships but a few
moments in expressing my cordial and deliberate concur-
rence in the proposition. (Hear, hear.) The eloquent and
impressive speech which you have just heard might
be sufficient to recommend, even if its merits failed to re-
commend it, the proposition now submitted to you. But
I anticipate with my noble friend so entire a unanimity
in concurring with the address of the other house, that I
am confident that even less than I shall now urge to your
lordships would be thrown away on an occasion like this.
It is true, as my noble friend has stated, that this is not
an unprecedented course for the lords spiritual and
temporal to pursue. On the last occasion, when
your lordships went up to the throne with a
similar address from both houses, it was to
testify your loyalty and regard, when an attack was made
on the life of the existing Alonarch ; and you are called on
to preserve the same course, in order to testify your con-
currence with your fellow-subjects in the other house in re-
sisting proceedings which directly tend, in my conscience
I believe, to endanger the existence, not of the monarch,
not of the peers, not of the commons only, or altogether,
but to put in jeopardy the very existence of the empire
itself. (Cheers.) My lords, I cannot view the proceeding
that has taken place in the other house, without heartily
rejoicing in the result of that elaborate debate. I feel
with my noble friend, that if anything can reclaim the de-
luded portion of our Irish fellow-subjects from the errors
into which they have been so industriously misled—if
anything can open their eyes to see the folly of persevering
in that course, and making themselves other men's tools,
that they may be those men's dupes ( Hear), for those
men's sordid gains, and for their own inevitable un-
doing—if anything ,can show them—and they are
teachable and reclaimable, and to be weaned from
those errors, and from those false guides—if any
thing can so teach and can so reclaim them, it must be the
lesson which was read to them by the united representa-
tives, in a free Parliament, of the people of the United
Kingdom—when they find a minority of their own represen-
tatives, as my noble friend has said, and when they find, that
of all the various shades of character, and temper, and prin-
ciple, and talent, which may naturally be supposed to dis-
tinguish the five hundred and sixty odd members of Eng-
land, Wales, and Scotland, even in despite of accident it-
self, the chapter of chance gave them no possibility of hav-
ing those pernicious 'doctrines supported by one single Eng-
lish Member. Yes, there was one, the exception proving
the rule—and of all the members of this island of Great
Britain in parliament assembled, but one solitary exception
was found to the prevailing sense—may I call it the good
and the sound sense--of the representatives of the people of
Great Britain. It could not be believed that the whole nation
was wrong. It could not be believed that that could be
fatal to Ireland which was so beneficial to England ; and
accordingly, among all the various shades of character in
the House of Commons, but one solitary hand was raised
in favour of the measure. He hoped and trusted that this
memorable lesson would not be thrown away upon Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) It was a painful and lamentable thing to
think that'll-eland—a country endowed by nature as if in
its most bountiful mood—a country enjoying every natural,
almost every moral, and so many political advantages—
formed, as it were, for the enjoyment of every degree of
national prosperity, and advancing as it was in prosperity
even in despite of those men—of those unnatural children
of the soil—who, by their arts, obstructed the benefits of
nature, and were at war with the bounty of Providence
itself. But in despite of these unnatural attempts to
depress Ireland, a manifest, a sensible, even a rapid pro-
gress was making in every species of improvement. ( Hear,
hear.) Was it not lamentable that the country was not
allowed to run that race for which nature had made her
capable ? ( Hear, hear.) And, great God ! why was it
so ? It was not that there existed grievances ; it was not
that the people complained; it was not that blots existed
in the laws—with the exception of one or two insignificant
ones, which he hoped, with the assistance of their lord-
ships, would speedily be razed and obliterated from their
books—it was not for any of these causes, but it was be-
cause there existed certain individuals, who were gifted by
that same nature with great talents—who had improved
those talents by assiduity and perseverance—who were pos-
sessed of large acquirements, and gifted with the capacity of

raising themselves to wealth by honesty and to power by inno-
cent ambition—it was all because those misguided men—as
much mistaking their happiness as their honour, and at war
with their own interests, as well as with the interests of their
fellow subjects, preferred to honest industry, and its credit-
able and honourable gains, a life of agitation ( Cheers),
a life of agitation; supported by a species of per4onal as well
as political mendicancy (Loud cheers)--a state which,
even to the unfortunate victims of such practices, if their
natural and honourable feelings were not ierverted, must
be attended with unbearable shame. (Hear, hear.)
There
had been geniuses of other times reduced to overt! and
beggary. One had recorded his own disgrace in his en ii
immortal verses. He was the second of modern poets, per-
haps the third poet of all ages. When reduced to poverty,
not by his own idleness or extravagance, but by the politi-
cal contests of his country, and by persecution, over which
he had no control, he begged his bread during
a season.
Bet, far from glerying in his beggary, he has recorded that
the sense of shame ender whith he received the alms of his
,
fellow-countrymen was such, that the mere sensatien made
every fibre in his system quiver with shame. He trusted
that few were gifted with such geniuses that they could
long suffer the shame, or brook the indignity of living by
such means as these, or who, in order to perpetuate
such unmanly support, could continue to plunge their
country in distress and ruin. He hoped and trusted
that this lesson Which the people of Ireland received
vi` from parliament mild not be thrown away. He looked
upon this as a new era. He looked forvt'ard from it
to a renewal of peace, harmony, amity, and good recline,
between the sister countries ; and he was certain that
when the people of Ireland found that the people of Eng-
land did not join them, or rather did not join their leaders
(Hear)—when they found that the rational and thinking
portion of the people would not join them, they would take
another direction, and would emancipate themselves from
the fetters in which they have been retained by force,
fraud, and violence, and would join both houses of Parlia-
ment in binding more tightly, instead of endeavouring to
sever, those bonds by which the two countries were united
for their mutual benefit, and in receiving and profiting by
the benefits which the perpetuity of those bonds alone was
calculated to give. He (the Lord Chancellor) had the
most sanguine expectation that their lordships would now,
instead of relaxing, increase their endeavours to remove
the grievances of the Irish people, and, above all, that they
would hold out their hand to assist a party hitherto too
little considered—namely, the middle party—a, party of
which his noble friend the Lord Chancellor of Ireland .had
repeatedly spoken in that house with his usual eloquence
and force—a party equally removed from extreme violence
on the one hand, as from extreme violence on the other,
and a party which had been always equally loyal and pa-
triotic. (Hear.) He heartily concurred in the address,
and he hoped that their lordships would unanimously join
him in that concurrence. Much had already been done
for Ireland since the period of the legislative union, but
much remained still to be done ; many evils had to be re-
moved, and the sooner they were removed the better ; and
he trusted that the effect of that removal, and the result of
last night's division in the other house would be to perpe-
tuate the union of the two parts of the kingdom. (Cheers. )
The Duke of WELLINGTON, concurring fully as he
did in the present address, would merely trouble their
lordships with a single remark upon one point. He agreed,
as was stated in the address to the King, that the union
with Ireland was of the greatest possible benefit and utility
to the people of both countries, but more especially to the
people of Ireland itself. (Hear.) He also concurred in
approving of their lordships and the other house joining in
an address to his Majesty on a subject of such importance.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said though he
frequently differed from the noble earl opposite in his opi-
nions, he should be ashamed of himself if he did not say
that, in his opinion, some of his measures, and especially
those intended for the benefit of Ireland, were of the
greatest utility to that country, and would carry down the
noble lord's name to posterity as a great statesman. Ile
cordially concurred in the address.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH could not let the op-,
portunity pass without expressing his deep thanks an."
heartfelt concurrence in the address, and the high gratin-.
cation he felt in the manner in which it was introduced
by the noble earl.

Commons,
Gll addressE
desiring
GREY
w thena s t
ahmet 10
conferencev
e dtagreedh at t
ao
bthere
nmetshseagpeaibnetedsecnht
atrtoi
on the subject matter of the address agreed to last night.
The Usher of the Black Rod having announced that night
Commons were ready for the conference, the Marquis °„
Lansdowne and some other Lords were appointed manage;-
of the conference, and they left the house for that purpose.
On their return they communicated to the house.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE stated that they hnetau
the Commons in the Painted Chamber and had conlingni-
cated their lordships' concurrence in the address, by filling
Tern-
up the blank with the words "Lords Spiritual an
poral."
Earl GREY then moved that Lords with white staves
be appointed to wait upon his Majesty, to know when it
would he his Majesty's pleasure to receive the address of
both Houses of Parliament. URY
Shortly afterwards, the Earl of SHAFTESB
announced that his Majesty would receive the address to-
morrow (this day,) at half-past one o'clock.
The house then adjourned till twelve o'clock this day.

—......-
HOUSE OF COMMONS--
,
The SPEAKEIt took the chair at a quarter after five
o'clock.
CONFERENCE WITH THE LORDS.
Upon the motion of Mr. SPRING RICE, a conference
was agreed to with the Lords, and a committee was ap-
pointed to manage it, consisting of Mr. S. Rice, Sir R.
PPeel, Mr. Goulburn, Sir J. Wrotteslev, Sir D. Sandford,
April 30.
Sir H. Parnell, Lord Ebrington, the Lord Advocate, and
several other members.
the Uponatrt
ehsoe
resolutions
urt htlieoornrdessthouifrpntsho hisfa
dthl
oiperscemo mui
spmeodint t
ot
tehete,aksttbe Mr.i
in.
eStco.t
cßoofnl
tCs
hi
tiEee
rs
at
repealtaitocd
n
th
of the union.

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A message from the lords was brouht up, stating that
their lordships had agreed to the Nova Scotia Land Com-
pany Bill, the Exchequer Offices Bill, the Calder Navi-
gation Bill, and other private bills.order'
The SPEAKER said that Wednesday precedence' an od
servance Bill, and as there were a number n-
day, the order of the day must have ptooad.
relating to the subject in the hands of hon. in
must be called on in the sequence in which theY s Ob-
The first order for that evening was the Lord's
fDaY•tions
hers, he
wished to ascertain whether it was the pleasure ° Hear,
house that those petitions' should be presented. ( be
hear, hear.) If honourable members would
content to • •without o-
present their petitions .
; 1., "Puri
ducing 'debate upon them (Hear, hear), wh'e- ini-
be unnecessary as the order of the day would be read
were
mediately after the petitions were presented—if this n
the pleasure of the house he would call over the names in
the order in which they stood in his (the Speaker's) paper.
LORD'S DAY OBSERVANCE BILL. .
tions
Sir ANDREW AGNEW presented several
~
Peabbath.
from many places for the better observance of the S _, .
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Mostyz Z.
Tooke, Lord Mandeville, Mr. Green, Lord Watern, 3lr.
Estcourt, Col. Conolly, Mr. Ramsden, LorcllkLil,
Maddox, Lord
Clive, Mr. Throgmorton, Mr. Hodges, !::,
31N, atkins, Sir R.
Norreys, Mr. Wilson Potter, Mr.
Cavendish'Llo
Simeon, Sir E. Knatchbull, Lord i 0 Mr. Callender,
Mr. Shawe, Mr. Baines, Sir H. WiltJ. Oswald, from
and Mr. Baring ; against the bill by I‘ . •
in favour of the
Glasgow, signed by 16,700 individua s
_._
Sir Parnell,
bill by Mr. Johnstone, Mr. Lister,
,_.
___ Henry)
three
Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Chapman, embersi
thel
Mr. U Wynn . s
Johnstone,
Mr. Christmas, Mr. Tynte, Mr. Blamire, Mr. H. Johns
and several more petitions to the same effect.
forpre s
e and.ti . three rseee,
e ral against
petitionsb 1 1
with
yt
hII
whichl r
order of
Sir A. AGNEW rose, and moved that the o
the day for the second reading of the Bill for the Better
Observance of the Sabbath be now read.
Mr. WILBRAHAM begged to take that opportunity. of
forThtheeorbdeetrteorf
othbesedrvayanfeoer
otfhtehesecsoanbdbartehadlitn_ags
trusted in favour of Sir Andrew Agnew's bill in a rlicalt e
Humhee, had bße ernd-'
form. His vote would be given in accordance
spirit of those petitions. •
of the ii
the
rea(
on which "ng the
Mr. MOSLEY rose and said no subject, elcee.Pttied och
reform question and the slave trade, had ever e:iains yeti-
wunhfiaichrl
tions. The present bill was essentially
deep and general interest, and called forth seesalcue as that
attacked
bacekeendlabsottil'eainr tahnrdowo-nutouoftt.hdeoobiritisi.:l4ootneh.:teafinr(l
th
ad been most
bers, in looking over the margin of
"penalty," and, without taking the tr°llble tbe a bill
the contents, immediately concluded that it in
occasion t°
He wished to confine himself on the present di,cthe principle of the bill, and not to enter into anyntlydis-
sion of the clauses. They would be more cower', ein corn-
cussed at a future stage of the proceedings,
nanife Led to be,
mittee. In a Christian country, such as this pro e
matter ot
of pains and penalties. That was an ineorrectTenclasion.
the due observance of the Sabbath must appear a , , tieivr
primary importance. (Cheers, Hear, hear, and OW )„..ta 0 e
aware it had been said by some hon. member', t !insurii3e
laws already in existence were amply sufficien.s,rate, 1
the due observance of the Sabbath. As a snag' i,orta,in.a
(Mr. Mosley) had found too much reason tt:, F,11,! sacred
quite
oftdfferent opinion. The law for preservin, 7,'-'_,.s }lire
inoperative. the Sabbath, as that law at present stood' "as.
turned up his eyes at this. He
inoperative. The hon. member for Mon E 5
coehl vv., i
ore dr";
to ask the hon. member whether there svasec'of the we,ek„,"
kenness on that day than on any other daY
bill of the not-
Let hon. members look at the object of the
« every class !icli
baronet ; it was to secure that fceedona to The bill d' t
the country which they did not now possess.
t. ,' It did "`'t
not at all trench on the liberty of any subjec
1,1 be the I.as
He Would tiou
prohibit any innocent recreation. t recrea
man to support it if it did. Was it an innocent distant
distale
to get drunk on the Sabbath Day ? To go a gre,
1,,) lc,
on journeys of pleasure ? (Cries of ~ Oh,. 011,„°n0h: oh •
would ask those hon. members who cried
.t
not for the
what was the Lord's Day made for ?
(Mr. Mosleq
in'
Was
it fr°,l
worship of God Almighty ? They had
Pet they Iteie
that
journeymen bakers and coachmen, praying

s

relieved from work on the Sabbath Day, that they migh
' -an opportunity of attending public worship. 'the
"nld- not interfere with the conscience of any man.
6hl) A man might go to church, or to the meet-
touse of the sectarian, or to no_place of worship at all,
as he pleased. He wished to put it to hon. members
wished to travel on the Sabbath Day whether it was
ase ort re:N*l nellehilgtheir servants to accompany them? The
to church or chapel, and that of travel-
ing on business and pleasure, was quite different. He
travel-
'e the bill Would be allowed to go into committee.
L.' message from the lords was then announced, request-
,, a Conference with the house on the subject of their
Pt conference. A deputation of members was appointed
Econfer with their lordships. After an interval of about
x.nit.tes a message was received from the lords, inti-
ing that they had agreed to the address.
rLE. L. BULWER rose with great respect for the
1()
1,....1(n1et's motives, and With the most cordial hatred
3r "1 theories of le slation to move that the bill be read
gi
second time that day six months.' He agreed with the
sPeaker that the hon. baronet's bill had been grossly
IlisZP reresentea veneration dby those who asserted it would create too
_ for the Lord's Day; on the contrary
I`l.7tild tend to bring the Lord's Day into general. .disr-
tooth., Ile feared the hon. baronet was a wolf in sheep's
erii,-g—a, philosopher ill diittiSe, who aimed at enda-
fraqi. redgmn itself by showing to what gloomy and
4 the out Purposes the name of religion might be applied.
„vs 5 outset of the bill the hon. baronet stated that the
vh en the Sabbath had become practically insufficient.
hey did any laws become impracticable ? Why, when
were not suited to the spirit of the people. If the
,s en the Sabbath were a dead letter, it was because
legislate
were already too severe. When on other branches
egislation---such, for instance, as the criminal ode es
lost its vigour, how did they restore it? Did
amake it more severe ? No ! • they made it more
mold But the honourable baronet, in his wisdom,
he revive a law by making it more opposed to
e eenhis of the times, and, by rendering it doubly severe,
?uld render it doubly inefficient. The hon. baronet
'"
his first clause, that the comforts and conscientious
of one class were not to be sacrificed to the sup-
comfort and advantage of another. Yet all the rest
le bill
, ; , was ingeniously framed to contradict the asser-
h'i't" which he commenced at the onset. For by and
e asserted, that no part of the gloomy blessings of his extendeud t° menial servants in the employment of their
-"ere, then, according to the hon. baronet's
was an exclusive class especially marked out for
'. The comfort of no class was to be sacrificed to
'ed advantage of another ; yet here the more nu-
(the servants) was sacrificed to the less nu-
n • (the masters). Again, who were to apprehend
Pea persons attending a news-room, or sauntering
- ",garden? The policemen, he supposed. What
' 4'er', was another class marked out for perdition.
were the comforts, the conscientious scruples, of the
ten to be sacrificed to the supposed comfort and ad-
ofthe hon. baronet, or those zealous and sanctified
he so ably represented,
" Who compound for sins they are inclined to,
13y damning those they have no mind to ?"
servants, unfortunate policemen ! Why were
Ails less dear to the hon. baronet than the souls of
'urneymen bakers and the souls of the journeymen
-rs ? The hon. member who seconded the bill
would outrage the consciences of none. What,
there not, too, a large body of Christians in the coun-
as fervent, as orthodox as the hon. baronet himself,
most conscientiously differed from the hon. baronet in
• iote
Is,er. rpretation of the Sabbath—who considered it most
:hri 'rural to confound the Jewish Sabbath with the
iorns,tian Sunday, who considered it even wicked to take
vas tOe Sabbath its festive and cheerful character ? Why
",..e, comfort—why were the conscientious scruples of
1.111 to be sacrificed to the supposed advantage of
° agreed with the hon. baronet ? Did not these
--did not his own exemptions, teach that hon.
i _ that he had embarked, rudderless and pilotless,
' 0
a f blunders—that in an artificial state of society
work that others might rest—that nature her-
allowed no universal rest ? Universal rest was
Nri,..stagnation. Did they not teach him that even
its ernical net he would cast on the waters left out
' des:ttromsY meshes the very species of fish he was
us to catch? Apply the hon. baronet's prin-
-I,riz.aerally, and the maddest philosopher never devised
i th,"tiPie Qf so revolutionary. Not sacrifice something
nothe'llnfort of one class to the supposed advantage of
lite prirtie. IVII.Y, all society rested upon exactly the
.oppo-.
se wh,, Pie. Society was a bundle of mutual sacrifices ,
it? uid the ploughman work—why did the soldier
,4alfort'rly did the hon. baronet himself give up the silken
l's it noto ease, and consent to be badgered in that house?
'"vs-• a sacrifice of comfort in some, for the supposed
of others ? Having, then, excepted from the
of his bill servants and policemen, and, very pro-
,tnedical men, and, very strangely, milkwomen—for
bin a liquid peculiarly holy and Sabbatical, those
~f'abl'l
be ladies were allowed to sell their wares twice a-
-4trbe-4.s4l,Posed upon some T E Deunt principle—the hon.
niiroec next exempted from the snares of his bill another
but -°‘'s class, namely, the rich. No doubt, when he
for ti i 4,1) .the news-roem for the poor, and the club-room
et t„ri.'eli, he imagined he was acting most impartially
'ith tu-r` the difference ; shut up the club-room for the
Ile nev‘''•: and he can enjoy himself at home; but shut up
linc.ra for the r man, and he hno such re-
`lniners .te ea44ot afford to entertain friends—to give
"' prob' bl°4 condemn him to a sullen hearth, which
the ha J enlivens by venting his ungrateful spleen
ildre„ . baronet's bill on his unfortunate wife and
Take
again what no doubt the honourable
th"--sht the least objectionable part of his bill,
Y, the
tier was
of newspapers on par Sunday. A
Ps°l• --r`r was often the only channel through which the
wruni,743l obtained a knowledge of what was politically
I' j,--5 and right. On how many points (take the Trades'
1,n44:48 for on-e)t. liow necessary it was for a poor man to
h'kaj the nice shades of distinction between what was
II;,' and what was illegal—how necessary for his own
~,,ttY, perhaps his own life—how necessary for the pre-
rle Von of the property of his neighbour ! and yet here
'only ,en,:. baronet would take away from the poor man that
rlly h`'`ninel of information or morality itself on the only
i'lt. re had leisure to read it. (Here the hon. member was
NI; opted for some minutes by a message from the lords. )
ar,aces__,anday the hon baronet stopped all public convey-
''ePPoselaDooeh" were literally to be found on the stand.
;4igaheehstieis:_ihat.h.u• re,:ealan receives intelligence on a Saturday
:14talle of is
'l,.alighter is ill—in want of pecuniary as-
-41.11.10.w
~vria.inbi the coach-
aid an he reach her ?—No ! The
house—the horses in the stables—
rh°eadiinhe can be seized—whatever horse he may
Nth 'Veil ! Poun . and this
ded • in the name of reli-
sLer Sato dabut the coaches are to stop on a Sunday,
or
the at th f . Y !light; you put up at an inn; unless you
' bin a" Inn you can get nothing to eat all day, for
(lilfall.girseT that no innkeepers or coffee-house-keepers
ins 'unless
to anybody, or a glass of beer or a glass
i , at, mess the appetite be lawfully begotten by hay-
, batP‘ at the •
tio if Inn the night before ;so that if your inn
hei_ial ; if Y.our food is wretched ; if the prices are extor-
'Oven ; ,31:nir room admits all the rains and winds of
is ere yOOJ°4 Can't stir elsewhere ; there you are, and
la`tiseernfmast be, at the mercy of your hosts behind you
ihnd, ,onilt, but
before you is starvation. Driven from
:Le,' the t, You take refuge on the sea ? Alas ! even
'4-,,, y 0,,. rPed,, 0 touch of the hon. baronet's bill has ex-
it:4 aek, boatVtogress. The bill says that no barge, vessel,
bi,eace its ' "'r other vessel shall leave its port, or com-
etern Potv•Yage on the Lord's Day. In many of the
ii• tie ; s is a vessel could only sail by some particular
ilit, arid° tnat if there has been a dead calm for a fort-
,ts are • 41) starts this capricious breeze on a Sunday, all
os Intent .
1), of the ,_ , all hands- ready ! Stop ! the heavy. a.n-
keeze ies zwn• member's bill is fixed to the vessel , the
~. tee's . away ; commerce suffers • trade is injured;
.gei.l Is t°rPid; the mighty wheels Of the greatest corn-
t4btiate Country in the world. are locked; the property, the
ki., nce of thousands is endangered b •
bill 'let, in his great benevolence ecause the hon.
frjr that one class of society should h'asnoltzirought in a
1q the supposed advantage of another. • (Hbeear engaged
°a how, what authority from Scripture or, fr•omleaori; i•
hitiehurch, had the honourable baronet for that harle-
itly Me with which he would convert the Christian's Sun-
l'hi"° the Judaic Sabbath 7 Not from the Scriptures, in
, eh s, .
'rah jut, Paul plainly says to the Colossians, " Let no
'. th ,--be You in meat, or drink, or of the new moon, or
11:4 't,,i-ab, ?)ath Days, hich are a shadow of thingsto come.
jail ti is Of Christ." t " Not in the Fathers, for Tertul-
the Names • s • Sunday, and describes
it, ;:•hrimi, d unlawful to fast on a .
thus ir,fh kulil of his time as indulging themselves that day
the -FeaeerflilltivitY another of
. And the reason why this day was
ea -iers I()''Pent, and why it was ordained,
11,tressly de
,Justin, who wrote 150 years after..arChfrriostm)
tiah_ing any , "'res. He says expressly, that so I
*l7i i 'net c°/Inection with the Jewish Sabbath theChri.sn-
ru:en rod on a Sunday because it was the first day.'
orizfliro,Ginle add e the worfd; and also on this day Christ
the kOf thr, ead. And the moment we thus disco.ve_rthe
ca,,..,vriaohati; Lords' Day, the moment we separate. it from
aha to the .of the Jews, and perceive that it was dedi-
h'k, tine sesh_PYous recollection of the creation of theworld,.
~N(111:14, not action of the dead ; it is easy to sec why it
"ecr-„ss, but-h„as, a fast, but a festival, and hallowed not by
l'e,se,is ; /„•14°.„Y• So what said the early ecclesiastical
11.-:ele,4,- the s-„_/, one Council anathematized. those who
tlee of the euuaY in bodily mortification and fasting.
day, ~, abst,i ?uncil of Laodicea condemned the prac-
first escludairizlng from secular employments. on Sun-
'lever bael),lishednk In the Edict of Constantine, which
''' civil „" out `'ee festival of the Sabbath by law, it is
pre inv. -xPedie,4 enjoined by Scripture, but as. being merely
oef. theseento Co and all mons engaged in agriculture
,i4st csia,,, that'7lnue theirPe.affairs on that da. Clear
eeto •7 °I the ie early christians never confounded. the
hia ed abr
0. e (~.. ogatw„_Tek:with that Judaic Sabbath. which they
'e pa rot Sup with the rest of the Jewish dispensation.
,s.4q herg („ePort his doctrine by the Scriptures, or by
s'i threi-es oi ,;,,-4 the hon. baronet support it by the early
kru Vous t:,r own church? On the contrary, the Act
ft PU °sit ',ward VI• (1547) says tat if men from any
l'illl w°rVY °l.Fudge
iol'oficodnsesiensuperstitiously abstain
ta'aZe G c.(4g the
they will grievously dis-
aboti;ersnoin 1552 a !:: &dared that any husband-
' °cc., may work any kind of work at his free

l' will and pleasure. He thought these latter authorities 1 chattels shall take place ; but the offender is to be
went too far—he thought in their anxiety not to confound committed to prison, until it is ascertained that his
the Christian Sunday with the Jewish Sabbath, they hail goods and chattels are suffi.ient to pay the pena'A v
encroached on the blessed principle of a day of rest. But and costs; if - not, the offender shall -be ounnittea
yet he would rather rely on even their authority than that to the Common Gaol Of house of Cfirrectidii, sci tiot
on which the hon. baronet relied. What was that autho- . a poor family may and will, if this bill pass, be driveit
rity ? Why, 1,200 years after the institution of ehrist; anity, houseless into the streets, because the father may have
there was a certain Dr. Bound, who wrote in 1594_he obeyed the orders of his master, or been overtaken in liquor.
proclaimed the Judaic Sabbath—the putritang supported the, Why has the hon. baronet confined his legislation to the
notion—our own divines continued to oppose it, and it was middle &id working part f, the community ? I can guess at
soon made 'a cry of party as well as of religion. ( Hear.) least—bediuse they are the most defenceles. ~ ( cheers. )
The hon. baronet must pardon him, then, for taking the Last year the hon. baronet put a notice on the t ctec for
interpretation of the Sabbath rather from the Scriptures, an address to his Majesty to close Hyde Park on Sunday,
the fathers, the early christians, and the early reformers, why did he give that up? Because if he had persevered,
than for placing implicit belief in the theology of Dr. we should have had, not the ." Revolt of the Harem," not
Bound, and the unerring wisdom of the Habakkuks and the " Revolt of the Workhouse," but the revolt of all the
Ezekiels, the Faint-nots and the Spare-nuts, from whose beauty and fashion of London ; and where is the soldier,
rational and sober fountains of faith the hon. baronet draws I where are the police officers, who could withstand the battery
the principles on which he asks the legislators of England to which would have been brought against the gates of the park?
act in the nineteenth century. But even supposing that (Laughter.) Why confine himself to Hyde Park ? Why
his doctrines be right, what proof has he that the Sabbath not close St. James's and the Green Park, for the keepers
is not well observed, or that the regard for that day has must be in attendance, and consequently break the Sab-
decreased ? Far from any proof to that effect, what said bath ? I fear lam wearying the house, but. I have little
his own committee ? First, that the Lord's Day was bet- more to say, I again repeat my conviction, that the clauses
ter kept now than at any previous period ; second, that its
was from a want of a of the bill appear to me framed to catch and punish the
infringement among the lower class ! middle and labouring classes, but allow the rich and pow
better example among the rich, for which we could not ' erful to escape. Instead of pfotecting, as the bill purports to
legislate, and did not legislate, by the bill before us. What i do, the part of the community least able to protect them-
said the policeman the committee had examined? Why, selves, it imposes on them the most galling and cruel restric-
that " there were less excesses on a Sunday than any other tions. (Hear.) The glaring injustice of the measure would
day." All experience proved, then, that we were pro- render the law a mere dead letter on the statute-book.
gressing in moral and religious, as well as intellectual im- I No police force, however large, could carry it into effect,
improvement. He respected the petitions before them ; because it is repulsive to the feelings of humanity ; and I
but he was sure that there were few who signed them, will add, according to my firnrconviction, contrary to the
who, if they knew all the clauses of the bill, would not feelings of a vast majority of the people. (Cheering. )
Mr. POULTER rose. He said the bill was incurable ;
recoil from its frantic fanaticism, or would agree to ex-
change the cheerful holyday of the Christian faith, for the it was opposed to the great fundamentals and spirit of reli-
pharisaical hypocrisies of a worse than Judaic Sabbath. g
Mr. POTTER—When the hon. baronet moved for e ion, and struck a blow at the freedom of the subject, and
endangered the morality of the country. (Cheers, and
leave to bring in a bill for the better observance of the cries of " No, no," from a few on the Ministerial side.)
Sabbath, it was evident to me that he intended to renew his .He was friendly to an observance of the Sabbath. When
bill of last session ; under that impression, Po posed its in- the bill was lost, as it of course would be, he hoped that a
troduction, from a conviction that it was totally at variance committee would be appointed to look at the entire subject,
with the feelings of the community. ( Cheers.) The result and prepare a bill that would meet the wishes of the country.
has shown that I was correct, for the bill which the hon. (Loud cheers.) It was a grievous mistake to suppose that
baronet has brought in is, with a slight alteration, the same i the petitions presented in favour of an observance of the
as his former one • and although that measure was rejected : Sabbath were in favour of the present bill. (Hear, hear.)
at the second reading by a majority of only six, almost A penalty was imposed for drunkenness on Sunday ; but
every gentleman who supported the second reading said the best way to prevent that evil was to encourage sobriety,
that in committee the bill must undergo considerable al- good order, and morality during the week ; to enlighten
teration. The bill now before the house is, to my mind, the people, relieve their burdens, and make life social and
so objectionable, that I feel convinced no alterations which happy to them. If they were drunk on the week-days, the
can be made will render it acceptable to the house
present coercion bill would not keep them sober on Sunday.
and the country. I object to the very preamble ; there Many men who discharged their duties faithfully, and read
is, in my opinion, an irreverent use of the name of prayers regularly to their families, went during the inter-
the Deity (Cheers), and a presumptuous supposition
vals of divine service to a newsroom ; and was the present
of what is his will towards man. Cheers.)( If this bill to come down with its penalties on such men ? There
bill becomes the law of the land, which, I trust, it was the game at cricket, too, which the poor were in the
never will, and its provisions are carried into full effect,
habit of playing on Sunday, and which, by this charitable
the consequences will be, that the greatest inconvenience
and sufferings will follow ; the comforts and enjoyments of bill, was made penal. But it should not be forgotten, that
the employment
the inhabitants of large towns in particular will be inter-
if not always, a preventive of vice. Let them be debarred
. from that innocent recreation, and they would skulk into
fered with and abridged, the supply of food for this great of the poor at such games was frequently,
city will be endangered, and, what is worse, it might have Public-houses, there drink and brood mischief. (The hon.
a tendency to make men hypocritical ; the pharisaical ob- member here quoted various penal enactments of the bill,
servance of the Sabbath was emphatically- reproved by
as applied to particular offences, all of which have been re-
the great founder of the Christian religion, when he P eatedly brought before the public.) Many hundred vessels
declared, that " the Sabbath was made for man, and Portsmouth and
were often locked up for a long period in
not man for the Sabbath." (Hear, hear.) The penal other sea-ports, in consequence of adverse winds ; now if
enactments of this bill affect chiefly the middle and a favourable
bill
sprung up on Saturday night, should
labouring classes ; the rich man, who has servants, they by this bill be prevented from sailing on Sunday under
carriages, horses, and pleasure boats, can use them, a penalty of 1001. for each ship ? (Hear, hear.) The
if he pleases, on the Sabbath ; he can go to Rich- bill professed to be founded on the fourth commandment.
mond, Hampton Court, Windsor, Box-Hill, or any of the He (Mr. Poulter) respected the, commandments as much
places near this great town ? but the man who does not as any one, and he should say that it was really founded
possess those luxuries, and wishes, on the only day he can on a Jewish ordinance—an ordinance different from Chris-
leave his business, to visit, during the spring and summer tianity. The Jewish ordinance was now in force, or was
months, the beautiful scenery of the places I have men- not--if not, why revive one of its most inconvenient, un-
tioned, is absolutely prevented from so doing, for he would just, and harsh provisions? If it was, why not observe it
not be able to hire a horse, carriage, or boat, or even to use all ? Why should the hon. baronet keep fire in his house
a stage coach. The humbler citizen does not go so far on a Sunday, and why should not the punishment of death
from home on Sundays, but if he wishes to repair to be inflicted on any one that picked up sticks on the Sab-
Greenwich, Hampstead, or any of the villages near Lott- bath ? ( Hear, hear.) It may be said that the observance
of the Sabbath was enjoined at the creation. But God
don, he needs a conveyance, and for sixpence he may be
gratified; but, by the 9th, 10th, and 12th clauses of this did not say that he hallowed the Sabbath at that time, but
on that account. (Here the hon. member advanced some
bill, he will be prevented, and must walk through crowded
streets, and dusty roads, to obtain a little fresh air, and will arguments on this part of the case, which are to be found
thus be prevented from beholding the beauteous green face in the pamphlet of Dr. Whately, Archbishop of Dublin. )
of the earth, the lofty and majestic trees, and the St. Paul told the early Christians that they were not to
of men with respect to meat or drink, or observance
shining hills and valleys, the bare contemplation of which judge
is enough to direct his thoughts to the gracious and of the Sabbath. Nay more, the founder of Christianity
bountiful Creator, and this, too, on the only day he can himself violated the Jewish Sabbath ; for instance, not to
be absent from work. (Cheers.) In large towns, and enumerate many cases, when he told the cripple to take
this great city in particular, numbers of young men are up his bed and walk ! ( Hear, hear.) He would support
employed during the week-days in warehouses, shops, fac- a Christian, useful, and just observance of the Sabbath,
tories, and workshops, many of which are in the dense and and no other. ( Hear. )
ill ventilated part of the town, and many of them are ob- Mr. HALL said it appeared to him that the effect of the
lia'ed to attend until late on Saturday evening ; many fe- bill, if carried, would be to injure to a very great extent
males are, during the week, closely confined in sewing ; the internal trade and traffic of the country. (Hear, hear,
domestic servants can only get out on the Sunday ; but if hear.) As regarded the moral effect of the bill, he quite
this bill receives the sanction of Parliament, how severely agreed with those who thought that if the working classes
will persons so situated suffer. I know the hardships and of the people were deprived of the means of recruiting
privations young men endure who, during the week, are themselves by taking their pleasure abroad, they would of
closely confined ; for, when a young roan, I was for some necessity be driven to pass their time in the public-houses.
years engaged in a shop, and afterwards in a warehouse, Then, with respect to the commercial operation of the
in the towns of Birmingham and Manchester. My corn-
measure, there was one point in particular to which he
panions and I, from Monday morning until Saturday
wished to call the attention of the house. In many manu-
night, seldom or ever had opportunity, or liberty to take a factories, for example in iron-foundries, unless the furnaces
walk, and at this distance of time well do I remember the were constantly kept up, the whole progress of the works
w
delight we felt at the return of Sunday, when we made was stopped. The consequence of neglecting such works
little excursions on horseback, or in gigs, to the neigh-
for 24 hours would, in many cases, be a loss amounting to
bouring villages, there rambling through Shenstone's
500/. or 1,000/. But could they foresee all the conse-
walks, Hagley Park, in the green lanes, or by the side of quences of such a system ? Might it not lead even to our
b
some brook, and this, too, was very frequently compatible becoming, as regarded some articles, an importing instead
with the observance of. the Sabbath, for we often at- of an exporting country ? (Hear, hear.) The bill pro-
tended a country church, but had this bill been in force, fessed not to interfere with any works of piety, charity, or
how greatly would our innocent enjoyments have been cur- necessity. This, in his opinion, made it requisite that
tailed. I have referred to a period of forty years ago. another bill should be brought in, to specify every trade
Thousands of young people need similar relaxation, and and manufacture that came under the operation of the bill
I will be no party to interfere with, or take away their now before the house ; and also to describe what works
necessary recreation, which I feel convinced will be the were to be excluded from the operation of the bill. If this
case if this bill pass. The affluent can, in the afternoon question were not decidedifiy parliament, by whom was it
of Sunday, meet at the social table, and partake of ex- to be decided? Was it to be left to the magistrates? If
cellent food ; but the labourer, who frequently is absent so, he would retire from the commission of the peace ; for,
from his family on the week-days, or leaves his home in his opinion, magistrates had enough to occupy their
early, with his dinner in his pocket, surely ought to have a attention already ; and the performance of any such duty
hot and comfortable dinner on the Sunda; but by this bill could not fail to bring down on them considerable odium.
the public bakehouse is to be closed. (dear.) His wife ( Hear, hear. )
has no convenience to cook ; the husband is thus prevented Mr. ROEBUCK thought it his duty at once to declare
that he was against any legislation on the matter at all.
sitting down with his family to a hot dinner ; he becomes
discontented, which often leads him into vicious and drink- That might be considered a bold declaration, and would
ing company. Baking on the Sunday morning, for the Probably subject him to the severe censure of a portion of
benefit of the poor man is prohibited, but, in the exception the house. He, however, did not hesitate to make the
avowal, ; and he did so, because he conscientiously believed
clause, bakers are allowed "to set and superintend the
sponge," as it is called, which requires considerable time that the bill was nothing more nor less than a branch of
and attention. First the flour must be sifted, then setting persecution. Entertaining, then, this feeling, he must at
the ferment, and afterwards mixing the flour and water, once announce his inveterate hostility to any measure on
which is called setting the sponge ; after which the dough the subject. He would suppose that the house, and not
must be made, which, altogether, occupies nearly the whole a party of religious devotees, were to draw the line. When
of Sunday afternoon ; and why has this been permitted ? would they say that they had gone far enough ? How
Why, that the rich and luxurious may have new bread on would they determine that religion went so far and no far-
Monday morning ; so that the poor man must have a cold, ther ? (Hear, hear.) They must conclude that the line
uncomfortable dinner, that the Sabbath may be kept, but it would be drawn by the dominant party. Suppose this
may be broken for the purpose of pandering to the appetites house took on itself to say every man should, every day,
of the lovers of new bread. ( Laughter.) This is another in- attend five sacraments ? Why, if they passed the bill,
stance of the operation of the hon. baronet's bill, which, as should they not say that every individual should attend
I before stated, affects principally the middle and working daily some house of prayer ; and why not also say that
classes. I feel convinced that the public bakehouse cannot they should then take the sacrament of the Lord's Supper?
be closed on Sunday morning without seriously affecting (Hear, hear.) Their consciences, truth, good feeling,
the comforts of great numbers of the working class. I have and justice, told them that between God and man, man was
made many inquiries, not only in London but at Manches- not fit to legislate. Cheers.)( How was an individual
h
ter, during the recess. In those parts of large towns in-
justified in saying to is fellow-man, "Your conscience
habited by the humbler classes, few bakers cook less than is unworthy!; mine is the only fitting one. lam a pattern
50 or 60 dinners ; many a much greater number. I know and a shining light, look on me. As a spectacle of good-
bakers who, in spring and autumn,
ness look on me ?" Would this house say so ? If not, it
dishes, each of which furnishes a d cook on Sundays 100
dinner for a family ; the could not insist on any one of the religous observances re-
charge in London is generally two-pence—in the country quired by the bill. Talk of discretion ; why this was a
one penny or three halfpence. The whole process is over most preposterous, tyrannical, and pharisaical measure,
involving a Judaical observance of the Sabbath, which
by one o'clock, and the journeymen, unless detained in
" setting and superintending the sponge," are at liberty he contended was not Christian.; (Hear, hear.) There
during the remainder of the day. I have said that the were prelates in the church of England, as high as any one
provisions of the bill now before the house chiefly affect who had written on the subject, and they laid it down that
the middle and working classes of society ; but there is such observances were not Christian. The Archbishop of
another part of the community who, if this bill pass, will Dublin, himself a most distinguished authority (Hear,
suffer—l mean a number, and a considerable number too, hear), distinctly stated, in a pamphlet he had written on
of the members of this house. Many of us come up to the subject, that they were not Christian. The hon. ba-
attend to our duties, and do not bring any horses or car- ronet might be ambitious of becoming the founder of a new
riages. Sunday is in general the only day we have time system of Christianity, but he would recommend the hon.
to get out of London to enjoy a little change and fresh air; baronet to leave every man to his own system, and the hon.
those who are so situated wish to hire horses and car- baronet would be at full liberty to confine himself to his.
riages; but by this bill they are prevented. A very short Suppose he (Mr. Roebuck) chose to say that his children
reference to the duties we are called upon to perform, and should not be taught to observe the Sabbath as a Jewish,
the time required must, I think, convince the most rigid rite, would the hon. baronet be justified in taking his ehil-
moralist that we are entitled to some little relaxation at dren from him, and say that he was unworthy of teaching
the end of the week. I will just refer to last week (and I them? And if he would not prevent children being so
have known heavier weeks). The house sat fifty-four
It was threneg
hours, bei riearl an average of eleven hours per day. taught, would he prevent adults from acting on the . prin-
ciples of their early instruction? It was impossible to
o'clock before the house adjourned on Satur- make a rule of such matters, and at the same time to avoid
day morning.
bills and thirt
and attention thin} -five
nee on public bills, which occupied the time
Therefiv were forty committees on private running counter to the kind feelings of our nature. What
did hon. gentlemen endeavour to effect ? Anything like
general a kind of clearing y. all the members. Saturday is in that feeling in the heart—that true religion of the spirit
hearted who refuses to allow
day, and he must be hard- —that bowing down of the man before his God in devout
euiusia little recreation on Sun- adoration which alone was desirable ? Did they fancy
day. lam a very humble mw
sof this house, and take they would make him look on the Lord of Life as a bene-
but little part in the public disceursasifoeilis ; on
thatommittees ficent, mild, and good being, one loving goodness of heart
I endeavour to attend, and I canand mercy of spirit ? Would they. not rather picture Him
eluded making excursions on Sundays,y sap,
ife
pre-
en- as a
gloomy and terrible God (Cries of " No, no") as one
tirely unfit for business ; and how much more is recreation delighting in the mortification of the spirit ? ' • (Continued
required for those liotnh.e mhueusmbe vs
Theo take a prominent cries of " No, no.") The hon. baronet cried " No."
part in the business ofl4th clause autho- " No" on his tongue—" Yes" in his bill—" Yes" in his
rises magistrates, constables, and other persons "to seize, heart. (Laughter and cheers.) What was the meaning
with or without warrant, cattle or other animals travelling of this? Why was there not in the first line after the
on the Lord's Day and to impound or otherwise detain preamble of this bill ar-' • for the • down of
I a tision putting
them, until the Wednesday next ensuing," unless penalties, all the pleasures and pas i .ies of the ' ? rich . (Loud cheers.)
paid. I wonder Why
which are heavy, are sooner what the did not these apostles of the present day commence
noble lord would say, if some of his fine fat oxen that were with the pleasures of the rich ? For this
reason ; with
impounded thepleasures of
coming up to the London market were seized and
the poor animals would pleasures of the poor they didnotsympathise • for four days? What a condition c
be in when they came out of the hands of the constable ! l Y , the" and " ear har.") They could not
lords and the know what poor manfelt.
(Laughter. ) I call upon the noble How could the, who daily
passed their lives in '
landlords now present, particularly the owners of quiet and content, know the feeling of
the poor man who worked " daily and hourly to fight off the
grazing land, to protect their tenants from the cruelty
the
want? f
seventh day
and injustice of this bill. Is it possible that it fiend
e on the How could they know the emotions of
should be proposed to torment a poor dumb animal that man seventh day, the day of recreation and
for the alleged purpose of promoting the service of God ? rest ? He would ask, what would such a man be likely to
( Hear.) The 19th clause applies to the recovery and appli- say when came, and he found he was
cation of penalties. It is here provided that the case shall driven to submit to the pharisaical observance of that bill,
be heard, whether the party accused be present or absent; which he could not in his conscienceapprove, of that bill
mould not allow him to go out at all, unless he could
and if a conviction takes place, and the penalty or penal-
which
ties with costs are not paid, distress and sale of goods and walk ? (A laugh.) Suppose he had a spare shilling, and

1 were willing to expend it in putting himself in a stage to
reach the suburbs of London. The hon. baronet meeting
him, might b supposed to say, ‘i Don't you know that
there is it (+o_l2 it'-the bill which forbids your taking this
recreation.' The pour Man *child TT-1)1v. " I am weak, I
ani tdil:Vdrii, I ein't.walk, and I tint free air ' I want
to fill my lungs, they l&ce ndt been filled the Whole week,
and I am faint in conseqiterice:" WOW the lidn. baronet
thereupon reiterate the clause of his bill, and tell the man
that he could not go out in the stage coach? Sapptise,
on the other hand, that the hon. baronet had encoun-
tered, a,noble lord who had got the gout. (Laughter. )
The hon. fer6tiet vroit}4.odress him, saying, " My lord,
you can't go out in the stage &Veit.", lordship would
rejoin, " I do not wish to do so ; I ha( e rIY exrriagept
the door, and I mean to go out in that." (Cheers. I'',
hon. ba onet would then make the noble lord a bow, and
tell him that in his carriage he was doubtless at liberty to
take his pleasure. Now, did a bill that would operate thus
exhibit merciful consideration for the poor, or the equal
operation of the laws ? ( Cheers.) The preamble of the
bill stated, that the " holy keeping of the Lord's Day is a
principal part of the true service of God." Did the hon:
baronet mean to say that the ceremony *as the principal
part? If so, what became of his faith, hope, and charity ?
Why were not these thrown into• the scale; or, Were they
excluded because they were inconsistent with the Jewish
observances which the bill provided? He (Mr. Roebuck)
did not hesitate to say, that the whole of religion, by such
a bill-as that, Wonld be reduced to mere ceremony ; that,
in short, there would not be a kindly feeling, or a reli-
gious feeling remaining. No doubt the hon., baronet was
a sincere friend of humanity ; but did he never consider
the condition and temper—it being that for which he
was in fact legislating—of the human mind ? If he al-
lowed not the man who worked six days out of the week to
recreate out of doors on the Sunday, he would drive him
to the public-house on that day, and make him a drunkard.
(" No, no," from Sir A. Agnew.) He (Mr. R.) could
see that the hon. baronet knew nothing of human nature ;
that he knew nothing of the people amongst whom he
lived. It was by observances of the Sabbath—by the pa-
ling on of that outward species of religion which he had
described, that the people had been driven to those beer-
shops to which the hon. baronet was so particularly op-
Posed. Complaints of the beer-shops were being con-
stantly made, but what had filled them ? Nothing so much
as the people being prevented from playing at cricket and
indulging in other such harmless exercises. He knew well
enough what would be the probable consequence to him
of defending games on the Sunday ; but he would never-
theless declare that he was a sincere believer in the state-
ment made by the hon. member for Lincoln. These re-
creations, so far from being irreligious, fitted menthe more
for the performance of their moral and religious duties—
making them, in fact, better men and better Christians
than they would have been without them. (Hear, hear. )
He was determined to get through his case—to work this
bill thus brought into the house. He was most glad that
the hon. member for Lincoln had given them a chance of
throwing it out at once. He gave the hon. baronet credit
for meaning well, however mistaken he (Mr. Roebuck)
must think him. Let them not forget, however, that it
had been said " Hell was paved with good intentions."
Could the hon. baronet be aware that one of the effects of
his bill would be, that in this commercial country, all com-
munications would be stopped for one day in each week ?
(Hear, hear.) What had been said on this subject
by a committee appointed in North America? And be
it not forgotten, that the North Americans were the
most religious people on the earth. Let them take the
case of a mail travelling on the Sunday, and that there
was a very large territory, in which were millions
of persons connected by commercial intercourse. If
they stopped the vehicle one day in the week, they
separated one-seventh of the whole community one from
the other. The North Americans believe that to be a se-
rious evil. He would suppose another case ; that of an
individual starting on Friday night, and reaching Edin-
burgh on the Sunday. The bill would stop him there ; he
could proceed no further. Nor would he find an inn that
would be at liberty to receive him ; he must sleep on the
top of the coach. (No, no, and Hear, hear.) Or, if he
arrived the day before, while he was detained, must not
the horses have to be fedand cleaned, and attended to in other
ways ? In short, would labour be stopped ? What was the ad-
vantage to be gained by making a set of idlers from one end
of the kingdom to the other ? That was not all. There
would be an increase, in the first place, of the expenses of
travelling (Hear, hear) ; and secondly, he wished to know
how the minds of the people would become more fitted for
the observance of the Lord's Day by the stopping of the
stages ; how could that improve the religion or morality of
the people? Not content with the stage-coaches, the bill
would affect all species of cattle, all species of goods, all
species of vessels. The house ought not to lose sight of
the fact that large quantities of animal food were now con-
veyed on the Sunday to the metropolis; the bill then
would necessarily increase the price of provisions to the
poor ( Hear, hear), yet, no doubt, that never entered into
the contemplation of the hon. baronet. Such, at all
events, was the conclusion he (Mr. Roebuck) must come
to, knowing, as he did, the humane character which
the honourable baronet deservedly bore. The honourable
baronet would obtain the very beau ideal of his Jewish
Sunday if he could insure that no class laboured on that
day ; but even the honourable baronet felt that some
persons must be employed. Where, then, were they to
draw the line? Should they look for it in the indefinite
clauses of the bill? It was provided that the bill was not
to apply to works of piety, charity, or necessity. To begin:
how were they to draw the line of piety ? (Hear, hear. )
How was he (Mr. Roebuck) to draw his line of a work of
necessity ? Or how was the hon. baronet himself to draw
his line of a work of charity ? (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Roebuck) might have a most serious occasion to travel :
and the matter might be one of such a nature that he could
not disclose the nature of it without inflicting on himself
great pain. If he met the hon. baronet he would compel
him to give up his secret, and he must suffer the penalty of
his bill for travelling. Was not this an unfair, most ob-
noxious interference ? Under the proposed measure men
would become liable to penalties who bad infringed no mo-
ral obligation. To his mind the greatest objection to the
bill was, that it set up the standard of self. By the opinion
of one individual who arrogated to himself that he was
right, were other individuals to be judged? " Oh (ex-
claimed Mr. Roebuck), we are not the humble creatures
that we would be supposed to be." (Cheers.) There ap-
peared throughout this bill a spirit of dictation which made
him its inveterate opponent. At every stage of its pro-
gress
i n
houseg ress heon would
every
elendeavourclause. If
toi
it
defeatwent it,in
tando aw
committee,
tvtiedee, the
h e
would meet it with a proposal to put down every gentle-
hmisanm'soptiroin another ar
under wouldhe
includeprovisions
of the bill every servant going out of doors on business for
his master. (Laughter, and cheers.) If the housedeter-
octe carriage. (Cheers.
hteoersC .
bring) linde r
mined to read the bill a second time, he would try the cou-
rage of the house with this amendment ; and the house
would not be acting consistently with its then declared
principles, if his amendment were rejected. He repeated,
that he would try the strength and courage of the house.
He thought he saw some shrinking on the part of those
around him, though he knew that, in feeling, they went
entirely along with him. (Cheers. )
Lord GROSVENOR concurred with those hon. gen-
tlemen who contended that in introducing any such mea-
sure they ought rather to begin with the rich than with
the poor. There were many other observations, however,
made by the hon. and learned member for Bath (Mr.
Roebuck) from which he entirely dissented. (Hear.)
He approved of the suggestion of the hon. and learned
member to prevent travelling with carriages on a Sunday.
When he looked to the bill now before the house, it would
be most disingenuous on his part if he hesitated to declare
that he could not vote for the second reading. He re-
gretted this, for there were portions of the bill of which
he entirely approved. He was quite ready to support any
bill on the subject that he considered would afford a rea-
sonable prospect of being beneficial. He had presented
several petitions from his constituents this morning in
favour of the observance of the Sabbath ; but he could not
for a moment believe that those petitions were intended to
be in favour of the metsure the merits of which the house
was now debating. (Hear. )
Mr. HALCOMB challenged the hon. and learned gen-
tleman to point out any portion of this bill that did en-
force religious observances in the sense in which the hon.
and learned gentleman contemplated. The whole prin-
ciple of the bill was to prevent, not to compel ; to prevent
acts of irreverence and indecorum on the Lord's Day ;
and so far he hoped it would receive the sanction of that
house. The hon. and learned gentleman also adverted, in
that tone of sarcasm which was peculiarly at his command,
to the language of the preamble of the bill, which declared
that the object of the measure was " The holy keeping of
the Lord's Day as a principal part of the true service of
God." The hon. and learned gentleman asked, " What,
then, is a ceremony a principal part of the true service of
the Deity ?" He (Mr. Halcomb) took issue with the hon.
and learned gentleman. (Hear, hear.) He contended
that the keeping and observing decently of the Lord's Day
was more than a mere ceremony. If it was not, indeed,
then would the sarcasm of the hon. and learned gentleman
be well applied. This bill would not have the effect of
making people answerable to parliament for the non-per-
formance of their religious duties. In this matter
they would continue, as heretofore, liable only to that
ecclesiastical body to whom they ought to be amenable.
(Cries of " Oh, oh.") The line of argument adopted
by the hon. member for Shaftesbury (Mr. Potter) had, he
confessed, surprised him. Was it not a component part of the
Christian's duty to cease from labour on the Sabbath ?
The wisest of men had regarded this as an institution, than
which it was impossible to devise one more conducive to
the happiness of human beings. The Sabbath under the
Mosaic Law had been adverted to. They all knew of the
case of the individual piling up sticks on the Sabbath Day,
which the celebrated writer treated not as a precedent, or
an example to be followed in legislation, but more as the
immediate act of Moses, to impress with a mark of the se-
verest censure a sense of the impropriety of executing on
era tns t in
the,
.. 6
bi
the Sabbath Day so unnecessary a work. (Hear, hear.)
The laws for the observance of the Sabbath were to be
found in the ancient statutes. In the preamble of a bill
brought
preservationt
i(nOg h
a, onhd ) ,be theaorf.
bear-baiting,
rhasei tt
ionsfga, Charleshma.aths f
made
ohme de First,sthee.
n by u
chapter
i e
ground-work. He quoted this act to rescue the hon. ba-

ronet from the sarcasm and obloquy of any lion. members
Who might choose to exercise their wit upon the subject.
Those who Would taunt the hon. baronct, would forge
' him (Mr. Halcomb) if he, in return, mistrusted their li-
berality ; nor did he think such tatiiits would suggest them-
selves to any well regulated minds. He did not advocate
f.li portion of tl.e hon. baronet's 1.,,11 which extended to
travelling And hteetinetion, as it would afford room for the
Ojectien thrit it r?;&dietiiftil ozeinct the enjoyments of the
j:o4r, whilst it administered' to tilk.plm.stirel of the rich,
and td emtept pinfy necessary travellin; %Vol:0 make it of
too inquisitorial a . He Would not have the peo-
ple of this great metropolis shrit otafroni necessary recre-
ation, by boats or vehicles to refresil t9cial fioni the heats
Of pent-up streets and sweltering alleys. He h*d lived too
Mitch jri the torn not to know the advantages of suer ne-
cessary iii.4ieetio'n,,Oticl to feel the sublimity of the line—
" aod =Wel-Ale but mitt made the _town."
The poor man's carriage, tbi, enthihra, as as necessary to
him as the sulky or the chariot WaS man: The
hon. member instanced, amongst the neeetsiry lksiness,
the removing perishable commodities from vesSelg; and
stated though the Lord's Day Act did not prohibit travel-
ling, it
j afforded no redress to travellers who were robbed
whilst otirrieying oil the Sabbath. The law as it stood
was sufficient for the protection of the Sabbath Day, if the
penalties were heavy enough td enforce the observance.
They should permit this bill to g'd td a 6ercorici reading, and
refer the details either to a committee tip stairs, or a com-
mittee of the whole house, ifere• it could be matured and
rendered practicable. ,

Lord 111ORPETH agreed with tile bori: gentleman who
i last addressed them on the impropriety of iittyfering with
the out-of-door amusements of the people which trere not
inconsistent With decorum, and amongst these (as we lin-
derstood him) he inciiided ericketing. The arguments
used as to the right of the podf to the use of public con-
veyances on the Sabbath were unansWerkMe, The proper
object of legislation, in his mind, was to Vrotttet the de-
cencies of public worship, and afford proper rett to the
labouring poor. Until some better plan .than the hen.
baronet's was proposed (and he did not think there would
be much difficulty in proposing a better) he would consent
to a committee; but at the same time this consent should
not be considered on his part as an intention entirely to
adopt, or indeed to adopt in any great degree, the provi-
sions of the bill. His object was, as far as it could be done
without injury, to free the poorer classes from compulsory
labour on the Sabbath. (Hear.) _ _

Mr. WILKS contended for the usefulness of the com-
mittee, for:the purpose of framing a bill which might afford
protection on the Sabbath to the poorer classes, but which
would not at the same time abridge their rational plea-
sures, which they should be permitted to partake, without
violating the one day set apart for the observance of reli-
gion. He replied to the objection that the Apostles did
not keep particularly holy the Sabbath Day, insisting that
it was an observance in use through all periods of Chris-
tianity. It would confer great glory on the house if it
passed, not the present, but some bill which would insure
the poor man's right to abstain from the labour to which,
in many instances, he was now compelled to submit.
Through respect to the great number of religious opinions
which were laid before the house, and which were more
numerous than even those for a repeal of the unioi, a
committee should be agreed to, to consider the details, and
meet the expectations of the country.
Mr. GISBORNE said, the proposed measure was
neither more nor less than a project for shutting up the
Thames, and depriving the inhabitants of this vast me-
tropolis of all the advantages in the way of health and re-
creation which that noble river held out to them. It did
more than this ; it not only shut up the river, but put an
end to coach-travelling, nay, put a stop to the vehicles
which were already in motion. ( Hear, and laughter.) If in
operation next Saturday, at a particular hour, it would
have the effect of stopping the York Road at Glastonbury.
(A laugh.) Though a fast day-coach was now established
from Manchester, which effected the journey in a very short
time, arriving at some time after eleven o'clock, still, if an
unpropitious fall of snow happened to intervene and impede
its progress, coach and passengers might have to encamp
through the inclement ni,ght on Finchley Common. ( Hear,
hear, and laughter.) The bill, beside this, empowered
any justices of the peace, churchwarden, overseer, head-
borough, constable, deputy constable, or policeman in the
parish, to arrest any cattle, found travelling on the Sab-
bath Day, and detain them until the following Wednesday,
then to be taken before the magistrate. This was rather
too great a power to intrust to such petty officers ; and
yet the overseer, if he received information, was punish-
able by a fine of 2/. it he neglected to enforce the bill.
There was no remedy by the bill against any person but
the informer, who might be a man of straw, and thus the
most annoying practices might be wrought against an indi-
vidual without any redress. Such a bill, so far from being
capable of amendment, was totally incurable. If, for in-
stance, he (Mr. Gisborne) wanted a horse at Newman's,
it would be rather awkward to have the hostler come up
and catechise him thus—" Pray, Sir, on what business
are you going—is it a necessary business?" and if discus-
sion ensused, there was no provision in the bill by which
it could be ascertained whether he oilithe hostler should be
judge of the necessity. (Hear, and laughter.) Hon.
gentlemen talked of going into committee. He should
like to know which of the clauses they desired to pre-
serve. Would they preserve the " locomotive," or what
other? if the bill were even permitted to go to a second
reading, every clause would be struck out in committee.
As a saving of time, therefore, he hoped that hon. mem-
bers would vote against the second reading in the first
instance. (Hear.)

Colonel EVANS said it had been asserted that hon.
members could not support any one clause in the bill.
This was a mistake, for there was one clause towards the
end which he should support most firmly, nay, which he
would even wish to see extended—he meant the clause of
exemptions. ( Hear, and laughter.) This bill really re-
minded him of an amnesty lately granted by a despotic
monarch on the Continent, in which lie announced a free
pardon, excepting all those persons who had taken part in
the political struggles against him. (Hear.) A little
further extension of the provisions of the clause would
render it a complete exemption of all persons affected by
the preceding clauses. The bill appeared to him to be
confiscation in many of its parts, and a vast quantity of
valuable property would be destroyed if it were permitted
to pass. Many other persons, as well as fishmongers,
ought to be exempted. Vast quantities of fruit were
grown within fifty or sixty miles of London, and he under-
stood that, by calculation, one-fourth of that fruit (of
course of a perishable nature) was sold between Saturday
and Monday, and could not be sold at any other time. He
called on the house to throw out this bill, though he would
not withhold his consent to a measure which had for its
object the correction of some of the existing inequalities of
the law.

Sir MARK PHILLIPS said, that to his knowledge
this bill, if carried into a law, would be productive of great
injury to the manufacturing districts, and especially to the
iron trade. It would occasion a loss of wages to the men
to the extent, according to the opinions of the best-in-
formed persons on the subject, of not less than twenty-five
per cent. The effect of the detention produced by it was
very serious. Even now the consequence of the detention
of fish would frequently occasion a variation in the fish-
market of from 50 to 75 per cent. in the course of three or
four hours. There was not a member in the house who
could not fix upon some one clause of this bill as rodue-
tive of great injury to the trade, or to the poorer inhabi-
tants of the borough or county with which he was con-
nected. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances he
should protest strongly against the passing of the measure,
more especially as it appeared to him to be a most unjust
and impolitic interference with the regular supply of the
necessaries of life. (Cheers. )
Mr. C. W. WYNN thought that the house could not
advantageously discuss this question theologically, as some
of the greatest divines and most eminent of all ages had en-
tertained different opinions upon it. The two principal
objects of the bill related to travelling and the sale of goods,
and it had not been even pretended by those who defended
the measure that any of the provisions for accomplishing
those object were practical. The interference with the
fair enjoyments of the poor was preposterous. Was it to
be said that those who were compelled to work hard during
the week, and who had only one day on which to take a
little necessary air and exercise, were not on that day to
be allowed any refreshments whatever ? (Cheers.) Pe-
nalties on drunkenness might, indeed, be justifiable, but this
bill was widely different. It was agreed on all hands that
scarcely a provision of this bill could be passed into a law ,•
and the wisest plan was, therefore, at once to reject it, and
if ' any measure was necessary, to suffer a new one to be
introduced. For his own part, he thought the origination
of any regulations on this point might be properly left to
the upper house, particularly when they considered the
mass of business now before the House of Commons. And
he must say, that when, on looking at the bill, he found a
repetitiod of almost every clause that was objected to by
the house last year, and that the hon. member had not en-
deavoured to obviate any one of those objections, he
thought it but a bad specimen of the auspices under hich
it was introduced.

Sir RONALD FERGUSON thought it a matter of
wonder that any member of a free House of Commons
should venture to introduce such a bill as this (Cheers),
and still more extraordinary that any member of a re-
formed House of Commons could be found to give it his
support. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with the hon. mem-
ber for Derbyshire that the bill was too bad—that it was
impossible to amend it. Was the house to waste its time
in committee day after day, in endeavouring to make
something of such a bill? He hoped not, and he en-
treated the house to throw it out as soon as possible.
(Cheers.) He only regretted that it had ever been read
a first time. He had looked to the bill which the hon.
baronet was about to introduce for the benefit of the peo-
ple in Scotland, and he found it re-enacting things which
were a disgrace even to the dark ages of the land. (Hear. )
Amongst others was the imposition of a fine on every man
who should be absent from the kirk. (Laughter.) It was
indeed too ridiculous. But he hoped the fate of the pre-
sent bill would operate as a seasonable warning to the hon.
member. He had received a letter from one of the most
respectable and oldest clergymen in Scotland, well known
to the hon. member for Kirkcudbright, stating that it was
the opinion of the Presbytery of Cupar and himself that
the measure was totally unnecessary, and expressing a

hope that the good sense of the Mint of Commons would
save them from this crude legislation. (Hear.)
Lord SANDON regretted, as a trend to the allc,,bel
object of the measure, that the hon. baronet shout I have
introduced a bill, every clause of which had -already been
rejected by the house. (Hear, hear.) The course pur-
sued b3r the hen. baronet was highly injudicious, and had
exposed the whole subject to a great deal of ridicule and
levity, which ought not fairly to be cast upon it. (Hear. )
No gentleman should venture to legislate upon sacred sub-
jects without much caution and consideration. He most
anxiously entreated the honourable baronet to withdraw
his bill. (Hear.)
Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought that legislation on these
subjects—particularly legislation like that now before the
• house—was most, prejudicial to the interests of religion it.
self.. (Hear.) It was said that the bill was to protect the
poor. That he denied ; it interfered with thost enjoy,
ments which netire particularly belonged to the lower classes,
and left those of the ilch untouched. Were we better' or
more virtuous persons than the inhabitants of France,_ of
Germany, &c., in which there were theatrical and other
' entertainments on Sunday ? Did the hon. baronet sup-
pose that Catholics were less religious than Protestants ;
and did ht. mit know that in Catholic countries the people
were at liberty te' enjoy themselves and to indulge in harm-
less festivity on the Sabbath? Were the people in the
South of England, who freipently indulged in a healthy
game of cricket on a Sunday, the less religious on that
account ? On the contrary, he believed that amusements
of that nature had the most beneficial tendency, by keep-
ing them from public-houses and from, other mischievous
occupations: (Hear, hear.)
Mr. RONAYNE observed that there was no part of
Europe in which the Sabbath was observed with more pro-
priety and respect than in this country. If there were any
t.ne thing more than another to be deprecated in the pre-
sent day, it was the spirit of hyper legislation which mani-
ftstea itself on such subjects.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET strongly urged the
hon. baronet to withdraw his bill. Any moderate mea-
Entre fer_the better observance of the Sabbath should meet
with his scippott ; but to the provisions of the present bill
he could not give his consent.
Mr. PLUMPTRE supported the second reading of the
bill ; and observed, that it had been si.ucliously kept out of
view that the parties for whose benefit it. was mainly in-
tended—such as bargemen, boatmen, post-c 04.0 proprie-
tors, post-boys, &c., were anxious that it should ptZ.,5 into
a law. The hon. member for Lincolnshire had sneeree at
the petitions of the journeymen fishmongers, and the jour-
neymen tie lesmen of other descriptions, on the same sub-
ject. But did the hon. member recollect that the salvation
of one soul was of more value than the whole world ?
Were the hon. gentlemen and others if they rejected this
bill, prepared to meet the charge which would be brought.
against them on the great day ? (Oh, oh, oh!) He did not
say that he was prepared to vote for every clause in the
bill, but he should certainly vote for the second reading.
Mr. O'DWYER was of opinion that the country would
not endure such a measure, even if the house were into-
lerant enough to vote for it. So long as the Sabbath was
treated with proper respect, he maintained that the legis-
lature had no right to interfere with the harmless and
salutary reertions of the people.
Mr. GROTE amid not allow the question to go to a.
division without his decided protest against the,bill. If it
were passed, it would be ti sentence of imprisonment
during the Sabbath on the lower classes of the people. He
had heard nothing to justify a measure even of much less
severity than the present. Religion, to be effective, must
be spontaneous and sincere ; and religious feelings ought
not to be operated upon by any restraints, negative or.
positive.
Mr. GOULBURN regretted the course taLen by the
lion. baronet. He did not differ from the hon. baronet
with respect to the important object he had in tiew, but
he thought it exceedingly unfortunate, after the experience
which the hon. baronet had had of the indisposition of the.
House of Commons in the last session to agree to his pro-
position, that the hon. baronet should again present the
same bill, and expect that it would meet with a favourable
reception. By so doing the hon. baronet placed him (Mr.
Goulburn) and others who thought with him in a situation
of difficulty. It was undoubtedly the duty of the house to
do all that became a legislature to protect the observance
of the Lord's Day. In furtherance of this object it was
most desirable that the people should be impressed with
the belief that the subject was one which the home
treated with respect. But if the proposed bill were again
rejected, such a rejection might create a most unfavour-
able impression on the public mind, and induce the belief
that the house was , not disposed to provide for the due
observance of the Lord's Day. Under these circumstan :es
lie should certainly vote for the second reading of the bill.
But he thought it would be much better to limit the pro-
visions of it to giving effect to the law as it now stood, and
that the bill in its present shape went far beyond the limits
of sound discretion.

Mr. SINCLAIR earnestly and respectfully entreated
his hon. friend to withdraw this bill (Hear, hear), the
fate of which he'had long foreseen, though he himself, out
of respect for the principles, was prepared to support the
second reading ; and he was the more desirous to urge this
request because the division would afford to this country a
very unfair index of the feelings of the house on this im-
portant subject, and would place many gentlemen in a false
position ; first, because it would be supposed (ane most
erroneously) . that all who voted against this measure we). o
averse to every kind or degree of legislation as to Sabbath
observance ; and next, because others, who supported the
bill, might be, with equal injustice, considered as inclined
to adopt all its provisions. He (Mr. S.) was bound to say
that he considered many of the clauses exceptionable, in-
consistent, and impracticable. He would cheerfully con-
cur with his hon. friend (to whose worth and exertions no
man was more inclined to do the fullest justice) in putting
an end to Sunday trading, and in thus placing all shop-
keerers on an equal footing, by enforcing that prohibition
to trade which they themselves were generally desirous to
see established under adequate penalties. But when they
came to the particular enactments, his hon. friend and he
would at length, and perhaps very soon, part company.
He had often told him, that by attempting too much, he
would accomplish nothing—his advice had uniformly been
in private, what he now ventured publicly to repeat, quando
id non possis, quod velis id saltein velis quod possis. His
hon. friend had not sufficiently distinguishod between
what a man of strict religious principle might pre-
yribe to himself as a duty, and what he had a right
t) impose as a burden upon others whose views wore
lass elevated, or less decided ; what was a privi-
lege and blessing to the one, would be privation and bond-
age to the other. He should quote a single sentence from
Archbishop Usher, in which he most cordially concurred
If I had all men's consciences in my keeping, I could, in
disputable cases, give laws unto them as well as unto my-
self ; but it is one thing what I can do, and another thing
what all other men must do." With every desire to give
to the working classes that protection which they so ur-
gently claimed, and to which they were so justly entitled,
he did not think the present provisions of this bill we're
wisely adapted for that laudable object ; and if it were per-
severed in, and discussed in committee, there were many
of its enactments which he should wish to see greatly mo-
dified, or altogether omitted.
Mr. JOHNSTON maintained that a question of more
importance had scarcely ever been discussed, and that their
decision with respect to it would enable the people to form
an opinion of the character of their representatives. (Hear,
hear.) Adverting to the proceedings on the subject in
the last session, he contended that the hon. baronet was
perfectly justified in bringing forward the bill again ; and,
indeed, that it was his duty to do so. He strongly urged
the house to attend to the numerous petitions which had
been presented in favour of the bill. There was not one
of the principles of the bill then before the house, but
what had the concurrence of numerous classes of the com-
munity, and was calculated to meet the wants and the *
wishes of the working portions of it. ( Great confusion.)
He was much mistaken (Loud cheers)—he was mistaken
(Repeated cheers)—he, indeed, committed a great mis-
take (Cheers)---if the question was not a growing one ;
and if it had gained nothing, it had gained this (Loud
laughter), that few could be found to stand up in that.
house, and declare that much moral benefit had not ac-
crued from the agitation of the subject. He hoped the
house would allow the bill to go into committee, and not
trifle with the feelings of those numerous petitioners who
were anxious for Sabbath legislation.. (" Question.")
Mr. GISBORNE denied that he had treated, or ever
wished to treat, the principles of the bill with contempt.
If the clauses of the bill were ridiculous when followed
out to their results, surely he was not tobe held responsible
for that. (Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL believed there were many gentle-
men in that house, supporters of the bill, who were not
aware of the extent to which it went, for its provisions
extended not only to Ireland, but to Scotland; and if it
should fail of going to a committee, the very next bill on
the orders of the house was applicable to Scotland alone,
and of a similar character. To him (Sir Andrew) alone
he should not attribute the happy
sagacity of this double
legislation. It was a saying in the profession to which he
had the honour to belong, that you might drive a coach
and six through any Act of Parliament ; but, by this act,
the coach and six was to go free ; for he who has his
Lord's Day (Hear.) The completion of such a bill as
,cso.oaechbemtiadye gothav:mh:ar he
ne
,viwli‘kveosu, and do as h
Iddaretohiree pleases,aeabo
n butthe
this would be the triumph of a principle of the most atro-
cious character—the triumph of a principle of the most
unchristian tendency ; inasmuch as it was a denial of the
great principles of the Christian religion, as laid down b
God himself. (Cheers, with low cries of " Oh, oh !")
Yes, yes, it was ; it was a bold and daring denial ; it was
an impious denial of the first principle of Christianity, in-
asmuch as it preferred the rich to the poor. (Great
cheering.) What ! if they wished to carry such prin-
ciples as these—if they wished to put such a bill as this
into operation, why not commence in the proper quarter?
(Hear, hear.) Why not do away with the filining parties
of the great—why not compel the wealthy to pay a more
marked reverence to the obligations of the Sabbath—wliv
not debar
hisbart hheoprrseo, oudri his- cook to
aistocratfroin
serve
up hiscompe turtlelli
tocurry
ve-
nison ? ( Cheers.) Why not do away with the worst species
of slavery—worse than all, because domestic—the slavery of
Cabinetinnials and e
counsceirisvantands? th(eiCrhcaeebriing. )
aetdiNln;
dinners
sn o prohibit
Slight
e theirheerf

119
,
t,
lt:eelieved froi
r, an 0),
r ..I ...thy not
: ()4h, ~,,b,,.) ,
~, t: hwaesu. he °ill
plea
VlAtstied to
to c,,,_
ase of tr ;:...pe
1g " b vliii'
ritsted the bill
'•k 'l° b.ll
1 , - message 1
''' ig a sage fi
Ist c'llferen
confe_ __,
) cw. ,ence
441 4er with
- minutes 1
gating es a T
Alt' L,lllat th,
Kin. 1;a" L. I
-tr h• rone's
it theories
second •
Pt time t
i , ,is sPeaker the
' Psit:teresented
w„ a yen__
'lrdv.llld tend `lt'
loth. He f
4 io ea
ern,,,,.... . phi
f(ratilkti reillginn
A the
..ea.t purin
tws ~ outset cli
(.1 , illen.the Sa
I.' . litvey'weeirde any
. hey" the notS ;
I 1 "tiel'e I a
t • gis, ~ a re;
i he l iation
I ley
rnle
i_lost it!
' ''utle. aK,e it r
'(411(1 But
~. he revive
genii,
° genius of th
I ti,i, i—u rend
' 411 I-his first
~n p oe
."'ed ' one
Ith comfort a
nn
le bill w .
ith as 1
7, he which
--tended
--Lendell t,
casters.
"ed, Her
t.;rditiowas an
I filer°, Th,
'ler°, V°,sed ad
1- class ~
`ernesn (th ‘,.,,L
uto -aeghtye --'
fer a tea.. Per
he, hen,
1.11,fi "tojelrirlistageYeihi
I:e.ehronfetthtohee‘b‘h]
, so al
‘„,-, Who c
uhile!,,iam;y
sdeamr
41r s'lmils less
i,heicntrnerner
and
It would ?
ra. would c
: there not, 1
snows fervent,
ti Inest cone
tote
'-.lscri4rPretatio
:uristi ltralc, to
-°lll th— I.lllda
fLI th,,e Sabb
ib'''se - e°lnfaratt.
i•ose unliein to 14
.;t'ePtion° agree
-,utlen, '--did
'4 a sea an that
iiite.:..,_,...,,ers:SatlloWllo-eri
''lrue tzt °I blnn
r e, Stagna
ar1.41, nical
I,,st deliionts
'Ale roosY
• pe_geheran
,to
If tCcIPle half
not comfortln, her ! a
Ise Pwrit,neiPle Y'
i Ight) "V did
:o„.. • Wit tl
Was
Y slid
's.s • of e
kiv It of ease,
)„ luta, a sac
ret.at• °e of of
1
'17r.1y,1,,°,4 of his
l'ilk C.,edical
tner e" 9
day, i'lAj'i a il
' ba',,' he a lathe;
name °lletstiPPoseci
;
shut tons ex,
for t till t class,
Yet the rich,i ne
leh Mark thhe
th tTl'mt, and
47)1iLl.neeeV"q1)01 I
dinners' he 1
ehe , ; yi,„"a''
t thrre'balzdy'e 1
, hi, , e hciti
har'gro en• ;r ba
'),TAllet though.ak
),,
.eIY, the ,‘VaPer e Pre
was
: titan
i. 1:1g 2.,_, Obtai
, k aion,-"(1 right
Nov for on
ile the n. e)
1 lib et 511 d nice
s
~,,. t,,...
perhaps
at
t-Ttielaii4eoflias
- _ h...... barone the
u1.11)3,1.y eTanne.
irl,l'lrhe„ had lie9f„
'oi r fitted foris -
4„, . a Sunda
s
•',l(-es----e.c.,`al: ti
r• PPose nes
.'ght a Poo
sista, that his r,
eoaehe—of re
if he " in the'
1),,,._ stir abroad
=ro,,,
ion. 1"611 be
'atit
aWell !
'le er 8 t • t
1 1,,!1? at th,u,r*lY