The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-15 00:00:00

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Olottnester.—(Hear.) Still he said it wculd be, notwith-
attluchng thi complete ans,er to tho charzes made
!igniost him, for ch, benefit of sit p tries that there should
be a further discussion on this Euhjeet.
After a few words from Mr. HUM.E, the conversation
dropped.

SUPPLY.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply.
The following votes were agreed to:-
4,049/. for Bermuda.
1,500/ , the charge for Prince Edward's Island.
7,677/. for the ecclesiastical establishments of the Bri-
tish North American provinces.
13.6601. f ,r the Indian department of Canada.
701 f, r Bahama Islands.
18,029/ charge for governors and lieutenant-governors
of the West India
36,075/. for the stipendiary justices in the West India
Colonies and the Mauritius.
13.7804 for civil establishments on the western coast
of Afriea

10 878/, charge for St, Helena.
6 359/ , charge for Western Australia.
1.103/ for settlement at Port Essington.
Upon the next vote, 20,0001. for New Z3aland, being
proposed,
Mr. V. SMITH said he wished for information, if it
were then convenient to give it, as to the position in
lit
the Government stood with respect to this colony,
It having talt,n from. the New Zealand Company the
colony with all its liabilities.
HAWES deprecated discussion on the subject at
emoment, as in a few days papers would he laid on
table of the iiou,e giving the most full information.
z Mr. COBDEN considered that the uu:lay on New
There
was a sp..cimen of their colonial Governm-nt.
`'gland,
were not more than 30 000 Europeans in N'•w
and Net the people of England were paying for
governor 2,5(10/. a Sear, for a lieutenant-governor,
800/, fie. a chi. f justice, 1.0001., for law officers and
elk% 500/ and tor a bishop from 500/ to 6001. They
""80 paid fir a naval establishm..nt and an army, and
vz,se than all, 10,5301. for public works. All the NON
s,4l(toders wanted ro4ds, why not mike them and pay
the to ? lie considered all this a gratuitous waste of
bPublic money, and he could tell them, that when the
Ple had a voice in that House they would not submit

kr. PLUMPTRE believed there was no colony that
twhks b'i'er deserving of the support of that House
ap New Z-aland. There the blessings of Chris-
nay
were manifested in a manner that was almost
kkervelloes amongst a people that a few years ago
be*ere cannibals. He would tell the Honourable Mem-
r that tbe Bishop of New Zealand's salary was
„t nearly 6001. a year, he also received an addi-
uenal income from the contributions of a religious so-
ei"Y• The vote now proposed was one that he heartily
concurred in.
Agar' W. WILLIAMS wished that the religious society
the whole of the bishop's salary, or if not that
Were Was a reduction in the enormous salaries of the
the Bishopat
ishees
of
tome and so e ortion of them given to
Now Zealanmd, whoP he believed to be a
'141113' excellent mawn. He moved that the vote be reduced
"1 600/.
es Air. HUME observed, that every paper received from
it4evrEl tiZealand contained complaints of the heaviness of
e
aisppea?o• The people, to avoid the pressure of taxation,
flying f-ona the colony. He wished to know from
ten l Under Secretary if many persons of late had not
4 eaving the colony ?
mr'll,,,A WES—Yes; going to California.—(Laughter.)
1411:7 • titiME believed it was to avoid taxation. The
lic works were considerd b the New Z as
'Prep° 3arena and uncalled for, and he thereforealandera proposed
reduce the vote by 10 935/.
after a few words from Mr. MACGREGOR,
1111::nr. HAWES admitted that there were in New Z,a-
-pl.ll Persons complaining or taxation, but their coin
tit% were not justified. In the colony the Govern-
at expenditure had been reduced and the revenue in-
esel:°l,cl. The colony, he could say, was advancing very
le:dr'9 in a career of prosperity.
r• M. FOSTER observed that the colony was one
fare t required very great indulgence. It had been inter-
s with by the Colonial-office, and many of its in-
'‘eitents had been thereby reduced to very great distress.
elkr. COBDEN observed that Great Britain derived no
ttelivai're advantage from the trade with New Zealand.
:_OYbody who sold cheaper than the English would
ve the exclusive advantage of its trade; but how
iaulo the English people to sell heir goods cheap
)1
1: they were to hex burdened with taxation caused
twee useless penditure as this? The Hon.
ti "rib, r (Mr. Plumptre) ought to look to the condi-
-1:11 e'f the people of Kent, and see whether they would
let the burden of Canterbury as well as of New Zealand.
objected to their covering their bloody misdeeds with
4._.e,!iurch or a chapel, as the Spaniards and Portuguese
the planted a cross in the midst of tortured nations that
tyree
.the nised over. He objected to the spreading of
_,eloctrines of their faith either through the operations
iettTeeir Government or by force of arms. He would
aloes trhalßPread of Christianity to the voluntary exer
Nee, benevolent individuals. As to their exports to
faxpen "Maud, they were to be accounted for by their
vlieeieedttrte upon the army and navy there. II-
"Pwards of 2,000,000/. had been spenbin
thew Zealand since they first set foot en its soil, that
ames," millions had been wasted, and that they never
chant loAr cent. on their outlay. Individual mar-
elieTes might profit by the trade to New Zealand, as in-
Iteldlutial merchants amongst them might profit by the
e they carried on with the west coast of Africa.
4-01 rd RUSSELL remarked that the Hn. Member
est •_
,tie West Riding could not agree with those who took
~,rtkerehant's view of this subject, nor c,iuld he agree
4 the Hon. Member oppusite (Mr. Plumptre), who
.Cl.4PPorted the vote on the general ground of charity.—
pr, hear.) He did not think that the Hon. M. tuber
itt4 mode out a case for reducing this vet,.—(Hear )
e;aPpeared to him thet the subject was one that might
spoken to without reference either to immediate
it.,_
-cit or loss.—(Hear, hear.) What was the general.f
of New Zealand before England took possession o
it,i The natives in a savage state, and the countrya
1-41413 for the worst characters from New South Wales.
otiose proposed by certain persons in this country to
011188 New Zealand, and persons went thither; but
415)' could not legally establish laws or government al
14 the consent of the Crown. This was given them, and
thiLerd J. Russell) thought it was not unwortthbyaor!
likti country to redeem that colony from a state o
alta en the one hand, and endow it with represents-
institutions on the other. It was for this purpose
keLgtants were made yearly; but be (Lord J. Russell)
at°,d to the time when the colony would support itself
lee;°,,disiant period. He had appointed the Bishop of
kee.eireland, and he thought 6001. a year was not too
cf a man who worked sincerely at the holy work
'tlelat'*ne,:".,,,ine the Gospel, With respect to trade no pro-
'New Zealand had any advantage over foreign
Ity u,ce; and it seemed to him, therefore, that the coun-
leciatb'ght still very justly go on paying these sums fur
e time longer.
lIcoIoUNIE said these grants were destroying the
'lei Between 79 0001. and 80,000/. were expended,
steti tativve
10 of the cost of the army and navy, for ttie
'4 ,000 European colonists. Oe that ground
hie tale opp,„l,
the grant. Tae cost of that inisera-
cuee,:tTirlY Was some 300,0001. or 400,000/. a year to this
Ms
411 N ' LUNIPTRE believed the missionaries employed
eiett"w Ztaland had been sent from the Church Mes-
-14:7 Society, and he was informed they had great
th Good reasons had been adduced for extending
jig t•—e's%ion to New Zealand, and the Government were
therefore, in the grant as far as they were con-
satittr E
Nero; • VENISON was inclined to agree with the Hon.
atm con-
Nero; for the West Riding and Montrose, that roads
the Public works were not items which should figure in
1110,,es,_tittlato• He should not oppose the vote, but he
these g 7 the House should express its opinion that
coltrl."!tYerns should not be charged to the people of this
Mr'
• HUME would therefore give the people of Kent
latlPertunity of taking the sense of the House on the
"alece
ThQ Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment... ••• ***
50
23
Against it .
•••
Majority.' —27
Ohe gallery was then cleared for a non the
tZed.raant the Hon. Member for Lambeth; b. ut n,o,nke.
plsce, as it was understood the motion was w"
.wn.
The vote was then agreed to.
.0001. for the Falkland Islands.
4reply to a qu“stion by Mr. COBDEN,
144_1,:. HAWES said the actual p pulation of these is-
was very small.—(A laugh.)
thlttri COBDEN said the p, potation was little more
their efr° Persons, and yet here were 5 0001. a year for
tq rP, g‘iverament. He suegested that it would be better
8010 ore the whole population to Canada, as had been
,otif in the case of Port Essington. They might be
tesetutt to 1,115 4b,13, maintained at halt the cost of their govern-
ei,uNtry.
eetillr• MIME theught the House should not go on
The L'.• y the money of the country in that manner.
kiloti'avatiSwa a regular governmental establishment for 100
Mr iv
th • W. WILLIAMS said 700/. a year was collected
the s'',,e.:4ony for the purposes of government, as well as
e,aut:lol. paid by this country. It was time to put an
lc it.
eet,4.•, LIA.WS said the Falkland Islands could not be
,Inered simply as a colony, bit as a naval station.
ear
u_aer these circumstances an establishment was neces-
txY, and it could not be maintained without a certain
elei°llet4:e.a England gave up these islands there were
plrol other nations ready to take them for the same
The as as they were now held—namely, a naval station.
I.B4`dexpense of the government had been reduced since
e„titi`' trom 9,0001. to 5,000/. per annum. The station
the more resorted to now than it was before, and
itelabiiiaondta produced a greater amount of food for the
kr. SP(iONv
8--d—ull,iesst the surveyor cost 1,2001. a year;
alteh..l t were his
justify the receipt of that sum in
PePulation?
it ‘Nel..r. lIAWE3 said, wherever there was land for sale
1ikt7,43 always necessary to have a surveyor. The u-
colrinyw increasing, and so were the sales of land inn Pthe
E. ar
'3l ~1r25 ./
""'"N asked the meaning of the sum
as !0 . for •. immigration?
st•ers.•rieteACylVties'earivdethineens"
'lr• COBDEN asked how Pe was so exceedingly small
ache
t. aP, the Fa!kland Tilsodn: many merchant vessels
t(e) ,h'r:rn_lptoar vessel hid tutach4esdt
t the Governor. 2 The ear
-theae're, accoryding
meet. "'AWES was not prepared to say exactly, hut
everst„t„°,u,Leeh?ri within the last twelve months than had
t.efore,
ltriZorll(il.sll.lthought the colony might still be retained
government 000tu3. g mote diva ojig.tmth of