The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-04 00:00:00

.-.ti 4:-.-i4; ,l, • 0,4 ~ -, ‘.. 4ii 'i. fr 4
.5' ri7,l OP F2C f :, Seven o Clock

DIP ETTA L PA R LIAMENT.
(THIS DAY.)

1-10 USE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock.
THIRD READINGS.

The Clerkenwell Improvement rand the lichen Bridge
and Roads Bills were read a third time and pas-ed.
The Lira amendments to the following Bills were
considered and agreed to:—
Commercial Decks Improvement.
Great Neeihern Railway Amendment (No. I).
Harwich Improvement, Quip, and Pier.
Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley, Wakefield, !ladders-
and Goole Railway, .
South Welts Railway (No. I) was postponed till the
10th of June.
The following Bills were read a third time end
passed:—
Copper Miners in England Company.
Dublin, Dundruns, and Rethfernhani
Waterford and Limerick Railway.
Whierford, Wenvord, Wieklow, and Dublin Railway.
Petitions were Presented for and against Lord Mel-
gund'e School Establisbmeut
Mr. ADDERLEY presented petitions from ten muni-
cipalities in the colony of the Cape of Good Hope, pray-
ing the House to grant to that colony the constitution
which had been an long promised it.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from Liver-
pool, cemplaining of refers! clauses in the Gunpowder
St. res Exemption Repe
WotTER SUPPLY.
Mr. MOWAT'I' obtained leave to brirg in a Bill
for the better sue ply of water to the mstropelts, which
was read a first time.
THE " NO-HOUSE" OF YE3TERIIAY.
Sir J, WA LMSLLY complained of the defective
• system now exieeug of summoning Members to the
House when the Speaker took the cheir, which wits
done so late that Members had nut time to reach the
. House before it was couuted out.
• . Bir R. H. INGLIS suggested that the electric tele-
graph should be put Imo use for the purpose.
Sir JAMES URA.II AM. thought, perhaps, it would
be better if, as of old, the Sergeant .at-Arms were to go
round to the several Committee rooms to summon the
Member...
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that be certainly had
• arrived in time to be one of the twenttesight animneee
present, bin he had sxperieuced great dlffimity in getting
30 in consequence of the crowd of Members assembled
round the doors outside, who invested him not to go in,
and he was n. ar haviog his coat torn off.
A desultory conversation took place, in the course of
which several Members said they had just arrived in-
time to be coo We, and bore testimony to there being a
• sufficient number outside the doors tormake a !louse.
SCHOOL ES rAßLtscimmNr (ScarLAND) BILL.
Lord MELGUND moved the second reading of this
Bill. His reason for &lig so was a conviction which
be entertained that the means at preseut existing in
Scotland for the education of the people were not so ex-
tensive as they were supposed to be, or as was necessary.
The system of education to be established under this Bill
• would be supported by local taxation, and placed under a
certain amount of local manageuseut. The system which
he wished to ,nee created was that which the people them-
aches could superintend the working of, and he was most
anxious that nothing should creep into this Bill which
Should seem to' indicate that the Legislature wanted to
specify what should, and what should not, be taught. His
own opinion, however, was, that religious and seen-
. tar education ought to be separated, and Dr. Chalmers
had often propounded the doctrine that any legislative
measure for regulating the education of the peopleehoutd
• be entirely divested of the religious element—(fleas.) At
• present there were some 5,000 schools in Soothe:lo,4nd of
that. number 1.800 were unconneciad with any religious
sect. The Nshle Lord then briefly reviewed the legis-
lation of peat ages on this subject, and proceeded to ob.-
serve, the population of Scotland was abeut 3,000,000.
• Now. elloeing five children for every thousand would
give 600,000 as the nuneSsr of children in Scotland.
Two hundred thouseud e f those were educated in
schools belonging to the Free Church, and allowing
• 100,000 as the number educated by the schools uncon-
, zeroed with any sect, they would have a clear result of
300,000 children at present in Scotland whose education
• • was totally unprovided far. The object of this Bill was
. to remove that vast extent of moral destitution, and the
mode by which he proposed to attain it was easy of
acquisition, simple in its operation, and comparatively
speaking inexpensive. He would not detain the House
longer, but appealing to the House to give the Bill their
best consideration, he would sit down moving its second
reading.—(Hrar. hear.)
Mr. F. MACKENZIE deplored with the Noble Lord
the amount of moral destitution that prevailed in Scot-
land, but he thought the means of education could be
greatly extended without disturbing the present
systeue.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") No one could
dispute successfully that 'legislation was necessary
on the subject, because it was high time that something
was doee:for the education of children in Scotland, but
the question is as far too important to be I( ft in the
hands of a private Member. It would be much
better, therefore, that this Bill should be aban-
doned, and the whole question referred to the
consideration of a Select Committee. The session was
too far advanced to admit of that being done now, but
• there was no hurry required in framing their legislation
on'the subject, and the question might well be taken up
again at the beginniug of next session. He objected to
this Bill on the ground that it would effect an entire dis-
ruption between the parish schools and the Church of
Scotland, and alter the mode of electing the school-
mutters. It was proposed to throw their election into
the hands of the risteeayers and be was very much
afraid if that proposal were ultimately adopted is would
prove istal to any system of education. Inc , the next
place he objected to the Bill, becau,e it made no provi-
sion for religious instruction; and he should therefore
move that the Bill he read a secoud time this day six
months.—(H, ar; bear. )
Mr. HUME thanked the Noble Lord for the trouble
he had tam in promoting this Bill. Ut all things
which the House had neglected that which related to the
education of the people it h- d neglected the most, arid it
really was the divy of the House nu N to establish some
effeethe legislate in on the subject. The , Hon. Gentle-
man who opposed this Bill said be did en
.because it
would separate education from the Church; but the
Hon. Member forgot that hitherto the education of the
. people had been entrusted to the Church, and how woes
• fully it hal betrayed its trust was to be touud in the tact •
that two-thirds of the children of Scotland were totally •
destitute of education.—(Elear.). Sixty or seventy years
ago the people were far better educsted than they were
now, arid he needed no nother proof than that to convince
• him that the time had arrived when a radical change
should be made in the system. The duty of the school-
master and the clergyman ought to be separated, and he,
•for one; felt indebted to the Noble Lord tur having made
this effort to accomplish that object.
Mr. C. BRUCE was quite ready to extend education
in Scotland, but if the opinions and 'wishes of the people
of Scotland were to influence the House, this Bila ought
to be rejected. The existing system of education had
conferred great benefits upon the people of Scotland,
and they here therefore opposed to a Bill which pro-
posed to overturn it. If there was one .qulstion upon
which the minds of the people of Scotland were made
up, it was this—they were determined that the reli-
gious and secular education of their children should not
be separated; ; and he-could not believe that either the
%ice Of ine, Government ivoull be guilty of the injus-
PAvelo
opinions. g this Bill in defiance of their wishes and
The LO
the course RD of ADVOCATE thought that, at all events,
the debate had shown that there existed
egrdutlP:thi:;e_e_i_ti-,sl
_fur the eulergement of the means of
..2_!?,:totrlsud,:stl tor immediate ieq'iiry into the
ere"rieneahlia(7la e:rryilig this oat. This Was admitted
V. the Bill,
fuour the sec
fla himself should ;rd his vote
weuel sato," that howl beeau,e he thought it
„ready to do isonasthing for the
ernaltiietlfedut
ttohitshweeubi:,
tclhani:hoought the Noble Lord was
farward the measure. ees thielAs. country for bringing
Combjection which had been
urged agsinat the Bill, they it
'ended to subvert
the parochial
thatm, he thought Ulu"'
by the law',
h the
beyond the range ofw:ee rail? Gnaw' red
yper:usldntn%Bdtrial
there lay a mass of •gnoranee whic
• with. Ad tar as retigiotes education went, "
to find that the Bill did not exclude tete:eon'. !!":: told
m its
schem
He e, la_causir in that case
se he could u„th,,,...
• it. could never c nnt to occlude r.ligiou from aye exceptin Such_ ease* whet. •
14
Would realty Fuev*,ot okay education at all wing given.
The eitubishuant did HOC number more than hairwht
sb)4, and that th.
was called orthedex Pr.
case, was it reaSonable to say that the' should *xelos.,
tei
those who did not belong to th est4blisha r, ils.iege
e
they adhered to all its formulas? Feeling there was no
treater foe to the moral and political progress of the
reopie than ignorance and deficient meals of education,
as should give Lit cordial veto for the auxonct reading of
Sir R. ING LIS objected to akin"
away the dUty and
privileee which of Scotland, as
well by us s„oibel'abgi'd to the Cnurcn
•4' Parlia-
ment, e
ittsposition as by direct Act
of Scot-
land. 'wn,iss
thepeople only Church which thenun
duty committed "liLtal, and it had a so en
fultilled, and if thit, which it h birnerto
ea-
lion in end counts U 1 e desired to extend educe-
be inereamd rather tote let the duty of • the Church
All the intelligencrrith,?:: it in the hands of o.hers.
people were to be attributed superiority of the Scotch
he s 1
. oysters. of education. Look ato t t
thepresent parocA
number of phi-
laeop'aers, historians, and poets, to which tic I nd had
. try a birth, who not ohly adorned their t
; ekeited the whole empire. In the em • native. au
district of
Viesterkirk, in Ducofriesetiire, containing only f..ion of 600, Sir John, Sir Pulteney, Sir eenyteen,Paonettusit:r-
-' Charles Malcolm, had ro3Bs‘ved ""kr n"neellote and could the Howie pcinia •,!n any other part of he :r
dc'tninintese ste perise-sehool which could peeee'ee
such men? If the present system had been productive
of such great results, the nollse ought not to demolish
itt tfithout having- some better reasons for doing
so ahen those 1.1 eget!. by the Noble_ Lord..--(Rear.).
Nobody denied that there we re defects of detail in the
existing system, but was that a reason for abolishing it?
Nor-did he dispute that there was a great want of edu-
cation in many parts of Scotland, and he should be re.
joiced to see that want supplied, but he could not consent
to it at the exp.:see .of religious principle, All system
oteducation ought to have the godly batwing up of the
people for its object, and the greatness ofe
Seeth'n" as
a nation was
-,attributable • to the Sectthat
the: education of its people WAS based upon

-

,

that lt ilia. 'qui'e clear tii him that
if this hilt went carried religion would become
.a se,condary teonsideratiou in the ethic viun of the
600,000 children, to whomlhe Noble Lord bad referred,
and he therefore called upon the House to reject it.
Mr. MACGREGOR thought this Bill would confer a
great boon °pm Scotland, and he was quite satisfied the
well thiuking portion of the Scottish community would
agree with • him. Agreeing with every word that. had
fallen from-the Lord Advocate of Scotland, he should
give his hearty Support to the Bill.
Mr. COWAN was satisfies, that without religious
teaching no country could b 3 presperous or happy, but
no tests could secure religious education, • ani he
therefere hoped the test system that now prevailed
in Scotland would be spee.iily abolished„ With
regard to the Bill Biel', he highly approVed
ot it, more especially us it made provision
fur providit
ee a high. r standard or excellfesce in
those who were entrusted- with the education of youth.
In his estima,ion thst was the west important part of. the
Bill, and he trusted it would receive the best 'attention
And ultimate sanction of the House. The present pa-
rochial system was not so psrfect as the opponents
of this Bill would have the House believe, for those who
had the management too often neglected to examine the,
qualifications of those whom thewas a
appointedn tioaddtiothnealorffiea.
office
of parish schoolueester, and that
son for his supp:Tting the Bill.
Mr.. CHARTERIS could not pretend to say what
the result of the division on the Bill would be,
but he entreated the House to pause before it
overthrow a system which now gave satisfaction to
Scotland, for the sake of replacing it with a plan, which
as yet was untried, and which, he would undertake to
say, would eventually prove umuccessful.—(ll ear. hear.)
The supporters of the Bill themselves a 'witted. that
its Meth were defective ; arid he c .ulti not help
thinking, that while they were so it w Rid be much
better to postpnre the Question tilt next session. The
criminal returns of Scotland satisfied him that the pre-
sent parcchisl system was sound and good at ho; t..tu;
that there was room for improvement if, its deteils he
was far tram denying, but, at the same tim,, he wag
very much afraid that the plau proposed by the Bill to
be substituted for is would turn out to be tar to,,re ob-
jectioaatee, without retuovieg .hhese sectarian differences
which the Nohle Goof seemed to desire.
Lcrd JOHN RUSeELL entirely concurred in what
had fallen twin the Loid Advocate. and he should not
here felt called upon w aderess the (louse had it not
been fur the sp-eeh of the 11-nourable M =her
for the • Unieereity. Tne •11 Amicable Baronet
seemed to •• be under the delusion that ells
Bell would embrace oily the asculer instruciien of the
people. Now it was not the intention of the framers of
ihe Bill to exclude religious education from their plan,
but before the religious element should be mixed
up witty the secular the local ratepayers should
ne respired to give its sanction to such
a proceeding. It was not 'disputed that fur-
ther means of education were *clawed in Scotland;
indeed it had been aced that upwards of 349 localities
were without any school at al!; and that tact being con-
ceded; he should nave thought the House would nut Ob-
ject to' enter upon a cunsideration as to how that
want should be supplied. • Well, then, the want
being universally acknowledged, why should they
mix up • the religious controversies teat now agi-
tated Scotland with this Bill, the immediate object
of which was to fill up the vacuum that prevailed
in the exising system as it • was now adaAnistered.
None of Li.e religious sects were opposed to
the extension of the parochial • system, and
he, for one, could certainly see no reason why the House
should rejt.et this Bill. The principle was unguestion•
ably good, though some of its, dinette .might be detective,
but puss the second reading, and it would open to
thou' to r.f •r it to a Select Gotainittee w settle its ina-
chinery.—( fleas, hear.)
Sir GEORGE CLERK had waited anxiously to
hear upon what ground Government could support this
Bill, and We► it seemed they 'had formed an erroneous
impression of its scope. Tne Noble Lard, for in-
stance, who had just sat down, told them that
the Bill would not separate the religious from
the secular education of the people, but let them be
'coite satisfied of that before they the all to
pass, tecidise if he were not mistaken the flon. Member
for Montrose stared that he sui-poried it under the im-
pression that it would separate these two.principiet.
If the people of Scotland were net suffieiently educe e,i
it was not tor the want of a sufficient number ot local
and district schools. He believed that it tree schools
were established, at which edutottion would be given
gratuitously, they would not be generally used, for the
lsbouring.population, actuated by shut vita of indepen-
dence which bed always characterised &eat, would rather
send their children to a tichol at which they hid to
pay for instruction. His countrymen were impressed
with the idea that what .was • got for nothing
was of little value. Tho great advantage of
the present parochial schools was, their close
connexion • with • the Established Church, He
was ready to admit that there was a deficiency
of education in those large towns which had grown up
within the last 50 years, but that deficiency nail been
greatly toverrated. .There might be classes who would
not aveil themselves of parochial schools, bat he saw
no objection to the extension of educational grants
to them under' the direction of the Committee
of the privy council. These grants were, in his opinion,
peculiarly well adapted for Scotland. He considered
that tie House would take a moat dangerous step if it
agreed to a Bill which no one who supported the
second reading agreed would 'afford e well digested or
perfect system of education to Scotland.
`Mr SCOTT said this was the first time of a Bill
being introduced, not only for separating religious and
secular instruction in Scothirail;tiitifor taking away all
the ties of the Government and the Church over the
instructors. He ehtiuld vote against the meaeure.
;Lord MELGUND baring replied,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading 124 •
A.exiost it ... 137
Majority against the Bill
The Bill was crmsequently 'lost, .
C'JUN TY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION

BILL
This Bill passed through CL,mmittee pro ArNii.
' CHARI (ABLE PURCHASE DEELia
Toil] Bill was reads second time.
METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY BILL.
Sir JEORGE GREY said the House would sit at
twelve, to-worrow, tut that, be would nct bring f,rward
th•w Metropolitan Water Supply Bill until the afternoon
sitting.

Ttre other Orders of the Day having been disposed of,
be Souse adjounri.4l anvil tn-morrow at twelve,

THE "CvETN r Mil," LASt' NIGHT.
The following Members were present when the
House was counted out at four o'clock :
Bell, J. loglit., Sir R. IL
Berkeley, Grantley Kershaw, Alderman
Brother too, J. Lushington, C.
Child, S. ItliluF, P. W. S.
Crawford, S. AlowAtt, F.
N
Elliot, 800. J. E. ' 0I Lobilm, F.
Freilh& LI, J. W. - bre), D.
?maven, C. H. Stuart, Lord D.
Galway, Viscount Smith, J. B.
(leach, C. Thompson, Colonel
Hutra. J. Williams, W.
Hatt, W.
And three others, whose names were not ascertained. i

~11ATE OF TRADE.
(From the Manchester Gmardian_of this day.)
MANCHEirrEa, TotenaY.-7-13y the Europa of the
21st ult. we learn that the advices which the Cambria
took out from Liverpool on the 33 ulr. had occasioned a
further giving way of f:t. to I per lb. in the price of
cotton at New York, but that *recovery of i.J. fl!owed
the arrival of the Franklin, three days reterwerd.,. In
the soathern marke's, also, there continued
to be a decline. We have, however, seen
a letter from Mr. William Mei e, which
states that "it was announced by tel.,k) 'kph from
Ni.ast Orleans that the receipts were rapidly decreasing;
the sales of the week were 28,000 b des, and the trinket
firmer, with middlings at 9n. to 9i..:." The ex e,o, in the
receipt, at the ports is stated to be., 263,000 ielles; but it
is talkgeit Viet later telegraphic advicee f:oni Nea• Or-
leans sentience that the excess in the Atlantic ports
was then 280,000. tia!e,. As the small d tiAency at
.Say.sutiali is fully made up by an excess at 0413 i 10S.
ton, this would -represent a total excess of 2t40,000
bale:, and conek.coently continu d lerge receipta
during the last week, a fact which do a not agree
very well wish Mr. Mure's ststentent. At any rate,
the receipts in the last week, of which we have full
particulars, namely. that enoing 2GI of May, were
larger then those ,f arty firmer y...ar, at the Seine d .t-;
anti they appear vi ry decidedly to roit.t 'to a cr.bp
of not less than 2 000,000 lisle;. Seeit:g in these re-
cpipts a reason for expecting some further tall in
Prices, to which the edviees from Liverpool cannot
not contribute, the buyers in this market have shown
' diaAnsition for business than they did last week;
and We have to report, lerefore, a quiet day in yarns
"4 iteodi at 1
1180 helPed to trg". The accounts from the E tat have
ci.,6,,,___
a__.weskeh the somewhat more active tendan-
in
_o77g:nhl lit we k. At Bombay, the transactions
thes truorstr.igit ,erns had indeed ben cuusiderable daring
partly unit r the
lower prices had b. en accepted—
also trem the tuduPereel'are of
heavy
exchange, in which hllow'ut of a
Al Calcula the
—had somewhat r,"dedn""y arrivals, but partly
aiiire faveurable rate of
prie,..4 4 P.fvi,r there had been ,actuations.
articles—though not all
slightly yit•lded. with ,oituls I the exchange 13,d also
chants have been.little
ings, or indeed fir yarni,
inclint,Vet, Ihgence, the Ineia met-
n inanuottritin unfavourablyt
which oar:ive orders for shirt-
ts
reported of; still, there have bee
of the yarns the
de-
acrtpions of the I =FT. The c ottinental litoruss';ll3Bh
operated very csutiously ; yet some
14k.., particularly 30's water, are fully as firm
as
they
were last week. The home consumers do not find warps
and weft lower than at
.the date of our last report's
pprbsps, inseine k nda which loin ex-
except slightly,
the market
coptioes to the
is steady; and all genera! rule. On the wholo,
parties appear to feel that, flea 44 i,„
ducers at. from stuck, they will now be able—with leaf
and less reference to cotton—to take a firmer stand on
more profitable prices than those which prevailed More
the fail of the raw '.I. matertA ' Already, the spinners and
manufacturers find themselves not onlyin a safer but in
a more tyn' ficial position, and in one requiring far less
capita; fiar the working of th,ir est::blishinents.
RCCLIDALE, MONDAY.—The fia,..nel market continues
flit, with very little doing. Englisn wool is firm, with a
limited amount of business; and colonial wool may be
obtained et rather easier Prices:
MACCLESFIELD Tuzapar.—Our manafsctured goods
trade remains- in' the same unsatisfactory condition as
Treed in our last. Notwithstandinr, toe
Lu the close .near approach
of the Spring season, we remain still with
out alteration fir the better.
nen is nufortu it,' • This bull state- of busi-
- , 44 y emieuced by a large number
.of

, r••• 48.11. •