The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-20 00:00:00

ir II E S U N,

gorse
..to proceed in the usual =lens ; namely, to post-
~f tialo preamble until they hed discu..eed the clauses
e Bill. He had, upon the suggestion of an Hon.
tut, consented once to discuss tlse preamble first;
ienue_te the difficulties that subs questiy arose in con-
w'e s
he wee warned against agreeing to such a course
Lott
)es,o UNCONIBE-13ut what about the rescript?
tf he _4, J. RUSSELL said it was (pie) clear that even
toti; nsented to discuss the preamble it would lead to
tzr„'.l: practical, for then the Hors. Member for Fins-
eN,iv ould ask for the rescript. If, thee, they laid the
Irt upon the table the Hon. Member would ask for
4t thority to prove it to be the One upon which they
tte .
fee,2)lating. Why, when they were discussing the
of tbt ,iO-9 he might as well have asked for the proof
els, tact of certain Roman Catholic bishops assuming
re: ~Pal fillets in Et gland and Ireland. Why as to the
Pri)or Pt the matter was notorious, and required not any
4t-(Hear.)
:,(/‘ 7 a few worels from Mr. T. DUNCO M BE, in reply,
thi By
MODE remirded the Noble Lord that whet...-
140,11 lot Lion. Gentleman the Member for the Univer-
f,l`, Oxford ventured to express an opinion upon the
the ;it use, the Noble Lerd said he °onto not have read
stole! Imble of the Bill. and unless he read the pre-
eh 1 was impossible he could understend the first
ths That was then au argument in favour of
ei,4 'discussing the preamble of the Bill bJore the
sit a.
aelj AGLION BY thought that the Noble Lord him-
"as to blame for so much time belie; occupied in
lord Tay He did not think the statement of the Noble
4110 et all satisfactory. No doubt it was the general
to to postpone the preamble; but this was a mea-
hsi ohich did not fall within the general rules. It was
044 a principle or form an ordinary Bill. He con-
by saying, that if Hon. Members wished the
Pt~Oinl. to be discussed, he certainly would support that
itt sition.
KEOGH said he gave notice of a motion that the
etsuo should not be postponed, but should be dis-
k;r ,n
first. There was a complaint that they made no
Nit '5. He could tell the Noble Lord why they bad
Ilittod 0 progress that night, or since the Bill had been
"ft. °He wished to take the Noble Lord out of
rt 'cuitY. The reason was, that he had not defined
(Iketl 3 wanted to effect. He stated that he did not
thild to go beyond the necessity of the case. Why
ttd 14 he not state what it was that was necessary,
4,1 bat the necessity required. He did not do that.
thi'Ll constantly chopping and changing. He first
~144411,P a clause at the instance of the Irish Members,
Under pressuee, takes a clause from the on.
str for Midhurst. Ho takes from the same partHy a
ti' the preamble, and then, on the other side, gives
bit of the preamble. He did not know his own
kti Then he struck out four lines from the ori-
trial after he (11r. Keogh) had challenged the
ik( tißeers of the Crown to state that the allege-
contained in them were true in law and in fact.
loble Lord framed his Bill by balancing between
pot
Eta parties. Not fixing upon anything defiuite was
1/41t csots they made no progress with the Bill. The
hye -Lord gaze facilities to other gentlemen which
' lid not possess, on finding that the Honourable
for Midhuret gave notice of an amendment
.originally stood in the first clause, and now stood
!tie, ,seeond. This arose from the accidental meeting
Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Attorney-
hi"r al, by which his amendment would apply to the
ha, et form of the Bill, but they hed not the good for-
kh,t 0 meet an Attorney-General in search of a pre-
or a Minister in search of a clause.—(Laughter.)
Vo nsequence was that an amendment of his would
t. the Bill. He asked was that fair? The Noble
44YIN m itta was the universal practice to postpone the
ior° No, but that was because the Bills introduced were
'4 -upon some principle clearly defined. Was that
kii,ctf so in this instance? At one time the Noble Lord
was to repel Papal aggression—at another to pre-
t,et •tiodical action—and then it was to meet a wide-
qitt conspiracy formed against civil and religious
„4,a The Attorney-General said it would prevent
41 %al action. Was that the object of the Bill, or
do „ le Noble Lard retired from it? He was an,
to take the preamble first, because he felt
ests
n's id be able to show that it was not true, and if they
Pet, "1 ess the very basis of this measure, the super-
cern
I be, re must necessarily fall to the ground. He had
;-,di on to present the other evening against the Ec-
40e`llst ical Titles Bill, signed by a perish priest in the
16e a!) of Raphoe. Knowing that the Hon. Baronet
masher for Oxford took exception to similar signa-
-140 lie asked if he would take an objection to this pe-
when the Hon. Baronet answered " diminionis."
Sold not notice it. The preamble referred CO a re-
hiPet giving titles. Now the only rescript of the Pope
dio, they knew of was that of dividing England into
ehd'e"*!B, but in that rescript there was no mention
ti,y.,,of Cars risme. ThenAttor-
Ne'rolloral, dinal
whenWiseman he explained the object of tithe Bill,
toiCnts different version from that urged by the Solid-
esi:heral. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then
1,,..1tv led that the section of the Bill which made it
8l her archbishops and bishops to take titles, would
or ti. the Charitable Bequests Act. The 15th section
eo it Act enabled parties to bequeath money to the
tet aissioners of Charitable Bequests, for the use and
tita
tif)h of archbishops and bishops of the Roman
fade4tll( ilic Church in Ireland. If a bequest was
„ to, for instance, the Roman Catholic Bishop of
ta, be would not be able to receive this bequest, be-
et"
"hte it would be illegal for him, under this Bill, to take
CPOa himself the title. Sir F. kelly, Mr. Brodie, and
clans„* laddeley held that such would be the effect of the
in the Biil before the House. No answer bad
t73'l,given to this. It was, therefore, the blunders of
tha,‘3,owernment, and not the hostility to the measure,
cee used the Bill to be delayed in its progress.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it would have been
Wel l if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should
e,.."3 at .uck to the precise question before the Committee
le3,ely, whether or net reamble was to be post-
Ceu- Instead of doing this, the Hon. and Learned
me.c.tl eman raised up a host of objections to every
ern"ca of the Bill, and treated the House to ingenious
Ouctents as regarded the effect which this Bill would
tele upon the Charitable Bequests Act. He reserved
aself the power of replying to this objection when
htiroper time arrived.—(Oh!) Surely no argument
t,;"' 'teen urged to show that the preamble should not
v.Postponed until the clauses were agreed to. Such
:i the constant practice of Parliament. He denied
otetithe Bill was at all changed.—(Laughter, and cries
ven,: O, ) The object of the Bill was to pre-
but 'the assumption ot titles, but it was shown that
theclauses in the Bill would have interfered with
the functions of Roman Catholic bishops, and these
04% were struck out, and all the alterations that had
441 nude in the Bill bad been with the view of carry-
dont the original intention of the measure, without in-
th`,l,eting with the functions of the bishops. He denied
14'4 any communication bad taken place between the
A officers of the Crown and the Hon. and Learned
f eMber for Midhurst since Friday night last. He per-
Gectiy agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G.
grey) that there was every propriety in inserting the
n. Member's preamble as a declaratory clause in the
104101. Again, the Hon. and Learned Member for Ath-
,(Mr.(Mr. Keogh) raises a very strong objection against
'be insertion of the word " dean' after the word
`bishop,"
but, for his part, he could not account for
ileh opposition on such trivial grounds.—(oh, oh.) He
7ltti also astonished that the Right Hon. Gentleman
04r.
Gladstone) should hazard his opinion by stating
`Atit there were new features in the present Bill, for be
!ttured the Committee that there was nothing new what-
'ter in it,—(Laughter.)
, The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none
%it place.
eOn our return we found Mr. REYNOLDS addressing
the Committee amid general expressions of impatience.
Ile complained that the Attorney and Solicitor-General
,ad thrown no light epos the matter, and he called upon
the latter Hon. and Learned Gentleman to answer this
question:—Did he mean by the preamble of the Bill and
,111,_e few clauses that were included in it to interfere with
e free action of the Catholic bishops and clergy of the
'nUnited Kingdom in the aischarge of their clerical duty?
Did he mean to repeal the provisions of the Bequests
Act, or to direct attention merely to that rescript of
which the Hon. Member for Fiusbury said they ought to
have a
copy upon the table? At present they were dis-
cussing the matter in the dark, and he thought he was
warranted in moving that the Chairman should report
Progress and ask leave to sit again.—(" Oh, oh.")
Mr. ROEBUCK, who was scarcely audible, said no-
body could be more opposed to this Bill than himself,
but, if they were to govern the country by means of a
deliberative assembly, certain forms of order were abso-
lutely necessary.—(Hear, hear.) He was sure he was
addressing gentlemen who would believe that ho had the
same object as they as far as regarded their opposition to
this measure, and that he would do all he could by fair
argument and by an open and honest opposition to put
an end to the Bill; but he entreated Hon. Gentlemen
from Ireland, as they had a regard for their own coun-
try, not to condescend to this species of opposition.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Let them go to a divi-
sion. Let them be beaten. They would not be con-
quered because they were beaten.—(ear, bear.) Re
believed that the sooner the Bill should H
b e brought into
action as a law the better, because so soon as it became
a law its impotency would be discovered, and the imbe-
cility of the Government that framed it would be made
notorious to the world. Let the Government have their
Bill; that was the way to do them the surest mischief;
but he entreated Hon. Gentlemen from Ireland to adopt
a fair, honest, open opposition.—(Cheers.) Let them not
trifle with the forms of the House, which a long.atittl
experi-
encecre. had enabled Englishmen to use with adv
Don't let it bo said that it was reserved for gentlemen
from Ireland to prove that the House of Commons could
not govern itself.—(Hear. hear.)
Mr. MOORE fully appreciated the advice which the
Hon. sad Learned Gentleman had just tendered them,
but how stood the case? Her Majesty's Government
had that day introduced a Bill into the House which
every Hon. Gentlemen, with the exception of the mem-
bers of the Government, had stated that he did not un-
derstand, and even the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
himself, who had as acute a mind as any one in the
House, had said that he could not understand it. It was
unreasonable to call upon them to proceed with the Bill
under these circumstances.
Mr. ROEBUCK quite agreed with the Hon. Gentle-
man that the postponement might be asked for the pur-
pose of letting the subject be understood.
Mr. MOORE—That is my object.
Mr. ROEBUCK—But a proceeding having that object
did not begin with a discussion as to postponing the pre-
amble, and then accumulate opposition by a motion to
report progreee. They ought not to take any course
which might expose them to the imputation that they
were not fighting fairly.—(Hear, hear.) If they said
openly that they were not in a
'position to fight the Bill
because they did ash) ueaerea.ea it, 'hey aagas t, ee). „,
once, "Give us till to-morrow." But they had been dis- HOUSE OF LORDS, May 19.
cussing the preamble, and now came to a second propo- The LORD C AtICS'LLOIt took his seat upon the Wool,
sition that the Chairman should report progress.
at Five o'clock,

Mr. IvIOORE observed, that the lion. and Darned
Member for Sheffivld had not been present durin2; the
evening. Tee Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone
heel never put his amendment. There hid been nothing
but a desultJry conversation.--(0h, and a laugh.) The
expression was not his, but had been applied throughoui
the evening. That desultory conversation was raised on
the statement of 6he Attorney-General. The opponents
of the Bill had never raised a discussion on the question
that the preamble be postponed; he repeated that the
Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone had not raised

the pesiien.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY thought it I
would be allowed that to the last moment they had dis-
cussed the postponement of the preamble; and the Hon.
Member fur Dublin had moved that the Chairman
should report progress. He (the Etrl of Arundel and
Surrey) hoped the Hon, Member would withdraw that
motion.—(Hear, hear.) If they divided on the post-
Innen:lent of the preamble, which did not affect any part
of the Bill, he trusted the Government would not press
the Committee to proceed further to-night.
Mr. P. HOWARD begg ei to add his testimony to
Viet of the Noble Lerd.—(Heer, hear.)
Me. REYNOLDS stated that Lone of the appeals
which had been made convinced him he was wrong in
taking a division.
The Committee then divided. The numbers were—
For reporting progress 30
Agaieet it 97 1
mijesaity 241
The Committee then divided on the question that the
preamble be postponed, whe,n there appeared—
For postp.)niag the preamble ... 253
Against it
Majority —213
On entering the gallery, we found
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY expressing a
hope that the Government would not press the House
to a consideration of the clauses of the Bill that night.
He trusted they would allow the Chairman to report
progress, and obtain leave to sit again; oral, if no one
else did so, he would make a motion to that effect.
Sir G. GREY said, the greater part of the Bill turned
upon the first clause, and it was important that as soon
es possible they should proceed to the consideration of
it. At that hour of the night (20 minutes after 11) it
was not unusual to enter upon business of a similar kind,
and he therefore thought they should proceed
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL appealed to her Majesty's
Ministers whether they could ask the House seriously
to go on with the clauses that night.
Mr. REYNOLDS said, it occurred to him that both
the Noble Lord the Member for Arundel and the Hon.
Member for Kerry had claims upon the Government,
for neither of them had voted against Government on
the division before the last. They went to the
library.—( A laugh.) He should be glad to know what
they gained by going to the library? He did not think
they were likely to get much information, nor had
much courtesy been extended to them now.—(Hear.)
hear.) What did the 12 or 13 Members who were op-
posed to the Bill, and who went to the library, gain by
going there ? He male these remarks in order that a
few who opposed this Bill of pains and penalties might
see the necessity of standing together.—(Hear, hear.)
They gained nothing by political gentility; they
gained nothing by bowing and scraping to the Trea-
sury benches.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem-
ber for Sheffield had appealed to him not to press his
motion fur the Chairman reporting progress, but he
could not, as a Catholic Member, acquiesce in that
view. He should like to knew what the Honourable
Member for Sheffield had gained by the course he had
taken ? Why, the Right Hanourable Gentleman (Sir
George Grey) refused to postpone the consideration of
the measure till another day. He gave the Government
notice, however, that, without pursuing any course
that could be called factious—(A laugh)—there was a
sufficient number of honest men in the minority to pre-
vent their passing a single clause that night—(Hear,
hear)—no matter bow many divisions might be necessary
for that purpose.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, the Hon. Gentleman had asked
what he gained by doing what was right?—(Hear, hear.)
He would reply that he believed a large majority of the
people of both countries would acknowledge that they
wens honestly opposing this Bill when they acted on the
principle of the Constitution as embodied in the rules
and laws laid down by Parliaments—(Elear, hear.) Any
attempt to render those rules mischievous must tend to
injure the great cause of constitutional government.—
( istear, hear.) He did not mean to express the slightest
disrespect for the strong feeling of Irish Members on
this question; but they would do well to consider the
strong feelings of English Members, who had fought the
great battle of constitutional government in that House
before there were any Catholic Members from Ireland
connected with it.—(Hear, hear.) He recollected well
that Mr. O'Connell never acted in the way now pro•
posed; and, though in 1833 end at other times he was
nominally beaten in that House, his victory over
the Treasury Bench was nevertheless most significant
and striking.—(Hear, hear.) He must say, however,
to the Government that there was good reason for post-
poning the clauses of the Bill. The alterations had
been made suddenly, and it was but fair that time
should be given to consider fully the bearings of the
measure. He hoped the Government would give the Irish
Members no reason to say that they were opposed by a
tyrant majority, but that they would afford them at least
twelve hours to consider the clauses so suddenly intro-
duced into the measure.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS said, reference had been made to a

tyrant majority, but he would ask the House whether
they could not cor.ceive such a combinatme as wouid
justify the appellation of a tyrant minority?—(Hear.)
Repeated divisions bad been token—in one instance he
b.-lieved the majority was nine to one—and he must say
that, in such circumstances, it might be the duty of the
Government to protect the House against a tyrant
minority.—(Hear.)
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY expressed his
extreme regret that any Catholic Member should have
said one word against any Protestant Member who sup-
ported their cause in that House, still more against one
who had supported it with so much ability, zeal, and dis-
cretion as the Hon. and Learned Member for Sheffie d
had done. He trusted the Government would yield to
the appeal which that Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
made to them.
Sir F. THESIGER hoped the Government would ac-
cede to the application. It was important that they
should do so. Government had adopted the amend-
ment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhurat,
making a declaratory enactment in the Bill applying
merely to the rescript of the Pope of the 29th Septem-
ber, 1850: the Solicitor-General had said, in answer to
Mr. Gladstone, although that declaratory enactment
applied solely to England, that it would have such an
effect upon the law that the judges in Ireland would
feel themselves bound by it, and would consider any
similar brief in Ireland to be illegal and void. He (Sir
F. Thesiger) assumed from that statement that it was
the intention of the Government that any similar brief
in Ireland should be deemed illegal and void. If so, it
would be better that that intention should be declared on
the face of the Bill. It had therefore occurred to him
desirable to introduce an amendment into the first
clause, to make it apply not merely to the particular
brief to which it was at present directed, but to all
similar briefs and re scripts both in England and Ireland.
It would be impossible to enter into the consideration of
that amendment at the present time. Ha therefore
hoped the Government would accede to the appeal that
had been made to them for allowing the Chairman to
report progress.
Mr. GEACII said he had hitherto voted against the
Bill, having been pledged to do so, but he did not feel it
right to join in the course taken by the Hon. Member
fur Dublin, which he considered was frittering away the
time of the country without any practical use.
Sir G. GREY said that after the divieion, considering
that the previous discussion had turned very much on
the first clause, be thought it was the duty of the Go-
vernment to ask the Committee, having regard to the
public time, which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Geach)
had properly said should enter into their consideration,
to go on and make some further progress with the Bill.
But, as time was now passing, any discussion that might
now take place it was clear could lead to no practical
result in the way of advancing Uwe measure tonight.
It was true the Bill was not deliteved to Members be-
fore that morning, and that certain ly was, a ground for
acceding to the proposal for reporting progress; he
therefore only hoped that on coming to the Bil on
Friday next, which was the first day they could ap-
proach it, they would be allowed to go into Committee
at five o'clock, and then proceed with the consideration
of the clauses.
The House then resumed; and the Chairman re-
ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Fri-
day next.
' The Ilainault Forest Bill, and the sale of Arsenic
Regulation Bill were severally considered in Committee.
The Appointment to offices, &c., Bill passed through
Committee, and the report was brought up and ordered
' to be received.

CUSTOMS BILL.
On the nalti)n for the second reading,
Mr. HERRIES appealed to the Government not to
press so important a measure at so late an hour, when
many Hon. Members who were opposed to the Bill were
absent.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER said, it
was rather a hard task Hon. Members imposed on
him. The Right Honourable Gentleman blamed him
now for bringing on the Bill. The last night
it was before the House he ('the Chancellor of the
el ::::nwtvaisthredardawa
Exchequer). had been blamed for not proposing the
Bill because it was unopposed. Re would postpone it.
The Gunpowder Stores (Liverpool) Exemption Re-
pealn.second time.
Leave was given to Lord SEYMOUR to bring in a Bill
to extinguish the right of the Crown to deer in the New
Forest, and for other ur
d fi t •
me.
in and rea a rs ta
P poses; and the Bill was brought

On the motion of Mr. S. HEe PassengersHawes,
Admiral Act
RBERT, the Select Com-
mittee
was nominated:—Mr.
Clements,
Mrthe Passenge HERBERT, the Select Coni
rs Act was nominated:—Mr.
Clements, Mr.
Mel-
gund, Mr. Adderley, Mr. Vernon Smith,
Viscount
Miles, Mr. Divett, Lord Naas, MrSmith, Mr. William
Sir John Young, Sir Thomas Biral Sergeant Murphy,
Mr. Henley. , Mr. Willcox, and
On the motion of Sir W. G. CRAIG' the Select
Committee on Annuity-tax (Edinburgh) w" appointed:
—Sir William Gibson Craig, Mr. TufnellSir
Clerk, Mr. Deedes, Mr. John Benjamin Smith,
BOUTCIIO, Mr. Forbes Mackenzie, 'Viscount Melgund, Mr.
Mr. Heald, Dr. Power, Sir David Dundas, Mr.
Smollett, Mr. Banbury, Mr. Edward Ellice, and Mr.
Adderley.
Oa the motion of Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, Mr.
1 Keogh was substituted for the Earl of Arundel and
Surrey on the Mortmain Committee.
The Helize atljurn:-',? 9t a C'elartr-r hefare One o'clock.

PETITIONS.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition in favour of
the Copy hold Enfranchisement Bill, from some gentle-
men who, under the present lea., had had several
valuable racehorses seized as an heriot.
The Berl of EGLIN'TON presented, from the borough
of Ayr, the most numerottsly signed petition that had
ever been presented from that place. It was against
Papal aggression, and he could bear witness to what
had been stated by the Noble Duke (Argyle) as to the
feeling generally prevailing in Scotland against thia ag-
gression. The Noble Earl presented several petitions
to the same effect.
Lord CAMPBELL would bear witness to the feeling
in Scotland on the subject, and he had to present several
petitions from parishes in Scotland against Papal ag-
gression, which had been signed by the whole of the in-
habitants, male and female, of those parishes.
Tne Kiri of SANDWICH presented a petition from
places in Huntingdonshire, praying for a restoration of
agricultural prot,ction.
Lord S isANLEY presented several petitions with a
eimilar prayer, and he was convinced that before any
long time had elapse l they would be compelled to pay
attention to the claims of the landed interest. The
Noble Lord also presented several petitions against Papal
ageressioe.; also a petition from Belfast, praying for the
establishment of an Irish 'Tran,letlantic packet station.
The Bishop of OXFORD presented several petitions
against Papa' aggression.
The Earl of WlL'e-GaILSEA presented several peti-
tions campiaininz of agricultural distress.
Earl Fl TZ WILLIAM presented a petition from Not-
tingham against Papal aggression.
Lerd STANLEY presented a p3titiln in favour of
the Neer Brunswick and Nova Scotia Railway.
The Earl of W ALDEOR AVE presented a petition
in favour of the Copyhold Enfranchisement Bill.
EXPENSES OF CRI MIN AL PROSECUTIONS

BILL.
Lord CR ANWORTH moved the second reading of
this Bill.—Agreed to.
PROPERTY-TAX BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the second
reading of the Income and Property-tax Bill. This
was the Bill of the session, which was of the
greatest financial importance. He believed that however
imperfect the wording of the amendment introduced into
this Bill by a majority of the House of Commons—
introduced into this Bill in opposition to the
wishes of her Majesty's Government, might
have been, it would not affect the legal effect of the
Bill. But he would call the attention of their Lord-
ships to the provisions of the Bill, and although
he was not one of those who could be
cansidered as an advocate of direct over indirect taxa-
tion, and although no one was more aware than himself of
the imperfections of this tax, which imperfections had
been most ably set forth by the Right Hon. Baronet,
now no more, who had first proposed this tax, yet he felt
bound to propose the renewal of it as Et temporary measure.
He was convinced that Parliament never could remedy
the glaring inequalities of this tax, and he thought it
was the duty of Parliament to make these immense
burdens as palatable as possible. But these
objections were subject to two qualifications,
the first being how far by the continuance of this bur-
den they could facilitate the importation of raw produce
into this country, and how far by doing away with other
taxes they would so increase the revenue, by encouraging
increased importation and increased consumption, so as to
enable them eventually to do away with the income-tax
itself. Without troubling their Lordships with figures
in any detail, be would ask them whether they really
thought the tax during the time it had lasted, from 1842
till the present time, had in any visible or tangible form
crippled or diminished the commercial prosperity and
revenue of this country? If he asked himself this ques-
tion he found an unanswerable reply in the state of the
revenue, not only in one particular portion hut in every
part. They had at this moment to provide 50,000,0001.
of revenue; they had still to provide for the burdens
arising from 787,000,0004 of debt. What had been the
progress of the revenue since 1842? 48,084,0001. was
the whole amount of the revenue in .1842. Since that
time 10,251,000/. of taxes had been repealed, and in 1850
the nit revenue was 52,810,0001., showing an increase of
income of 4,726,000/.; so that the entire amount of the
taxes which had been surrendered in the course of the
ten years had been nearly restored and replaced by that
development of the increased prosperity of the country
which had taken place under the income-tax.; They had,
by the employment of that tax, given to the reproductive
industry of the country a power which could not other-
wise have existed, and they had placed themselves in
that fertunate position in which they had to consi-
der, not how they were to obtain a surplus revenue,
but how they were to dispose of it. But as that sur-
plus was not sufficient to enable them to get rid of
the income-tax altogether, he believed they could not
pursue a wiser course than to continue the tax in its
present form, and to employ it for the purposes pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government—namely, for the
purpose of reducing the duties on those imported
articles coffee and timber, and of removing the window-
tax, which not only pressed heavily on persons of every
class in this country, but also, at the same time, most
prejudicially affected the sanitary condition of the great
mass of the people. The repeal of the window-duty
would tend greatly to improve the physical condition of
the working classes, by procuring for them more light
and air, and a better class of dwellings, in conformity
with one of the great tendencies of the present age.
They had every reason to believe that a reduction of the
duty on coffee would lead to an increasing consumption
of the article, and that under that change the revenue
might reach the amount produced by the higher duty;
for that was precisely what had happened on a pre-
vious occasion. The fact was, that when the duty on
coffee had formerly been reduced, the amount of
the duty had actually increased in the course
of four or five years. Then, again, with respect to
the reduction of the timber duties, he found than since
the proposal upon that subject had been submitted to
Parliament, a new impulse had been given to ship-build-
ing and a reduction in the price of timber had already
taken place. The Bill then before their Lordships was
but a transcript of the Act which had already on more
than one occasion received their sanction, with this ex-
ception, that it would relieve the tenant-farmers from a
grievance under which they had complained that they
had hitherto laboured. The tenant-farmers had until
the present moment been compelled to pay the tax on
one-half the amount of their rents, but under the
amended Bill then before their Lordships any tenant
who could prove that his profits had fallen short of that
assumed amount would be entitled to a proportionate
reduction in the charge to which he would be liable. The
tax was only to be continued for one year, and at the
expiration of that period they would again have an op-
portunity of considering the whole question. Under
these circumstances he believed that, with a due regard
to public credit and to the promotion of that develop•
ment of the national resources which they might carry
still further by persevering in the policy they had
hitherto adopted, they would feel it their duty to adopt
the Bill as it had been sent down to them from the other
House. He therefore moved that the Bill be read a
second tima—(Eiear, bear.)
Lord STANLEY said the Noble Marquis had moved
the second reading of the Bill upon two grounds—first,
on the necessity of maintaining the public credit of the
country, and on the impossibility of finding a substitute
for the income-tax in the present year; and, second, on
the ground from which be (Lord Stanley) dissented, that
it was necessary for the purpose of extending the pre-
sent commercial system, and for facilitating the impor
tation of those articles of foreign produce, the importa-
tion of which he (Lord Stanley) believed had already in-
flicted such injury upon the agricultural interest of this
country.—(Hear, hear.) The Government had brought
up a till, the passing of which, in some shape, was ne-
cessary for maintaining the credit of the country. He
was not the person who would contend that, in the
course of this year or the next, they could dispense with
a certain portion of the income-tax, and he, and those
who acted with him, would not sanction the rash and
reckless reduction of taxation which would make the
country unable to meet its expenditure.—(Hear, hear.)
As the present Bill was a money Bill, their Lord-
ships had not the slightest power to alter it.—(Hear,
bear.) The question was, whether they would sanc-
tion the renewal of the tax for one year, on the
ground stated by the other House of Parliament, or re-
ject the Bill altogether.—(Hoar, hear.) By rejecting it,.
about five millions would be struck off the anticipated
income, and taking the present surplus at about two
millions and a half, they would, by rejecting the Bill,
reduce the surplus to a deficit of similar amount. He
thought, under such circumstances, they could not hesi-
tate how to act. It appeared that a blunder had been
committed in tho Bill as it now stood for continuing the
tax for one year, and the Noble Marquis had said that
that blunder had been caused by the introduction of the
amendment. He (Lord Stanley), however, thought that
the blunder was in the Government not taking care
that the amendment agreed with the other portion of
the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) They might, however, pass
the Bill, blundering as it was, or reject it altogether. He
had not for his own part any desire to offer opposition
to the Bill, notwithstanding its blunders. He agreed in
what had been said by the Noble Marquis opposite, as
to the impossibility of altering the Bill as altogether
to avoid inequalities. In point of fact the income-
tax, as it at present stood, was anomalous in theory
and had inequalities in practice. The anomalies
might be diminished, but he agreed that they
could not pass a Bill upon the subject that would
be in every respect just.—(Hoar, hear.) He could not
give his consent to continue this anomalous and unjust
measure, not as it had been proposed by Sir Robert
Peel, as a temporary Bill merely, but as one bound up
with the taxation of the country, and kept up for the
purpose of carrying out that commercial system to which
he was opposed, and which had already been the means
of effecting so much loss and injury.—(Hear, hear.) He
was of opinion that the House of Commons decided
wisely in coming to the determination that the measure
should be reconsidered at the expiration of the present
year.—(Hear.) He thought that House had decided
wisely in determining that whether it was to be conti-
nued for two years or for three years, they would in-
quire whether, at the expiration of the present year,
the anomalies and inequalities could not be reduced
and made less oppressive in their operation.—(Hear,
hear.) Ho thought, however, the House of Commons
acted wrongly in not adopting the proposition of a
Right Honourable Gentleman when be proposed that,
without endangering the public faith or the public cre-
dit, the House should declare that at the earliest pos-
sible period the tax should be reduced, and that it
should not be continued for the indefinite reduction
of indirect taxation. The House of Commons had not
thought proper to take that course, but had determined
that the tax in its present shape, should only be conti-
nued for one year. Their Lordship bad not passed any
opinion on the other measures of her Majesty's Govern-
:beet, but he (Lord S,anls3) would bo prepared to go
into a discussion of the poticy which had been pursued
when the proper time arrived.—(Hear, hear.) It ap-
peared that in order to accomplish an indefinite deve-