The Sun.
London, England, 1802-05-14 00:00:00

[PRICE F,IPEN,CE;

honour to be concerned in negotiating, was only, a.
.a :Treaty of experiment; and .as streli was to laS vs'
only for six years, so that it Intd expired bCfote the
commencement of the late War., His Lordship sari;
he would not .take up their .Loialshii)s' tiaie by
entering.into the other subjeciS of debate, wfilcit
had already-been answered by sortie of :his Noble
Friends, but 'content himself V;-ith declaring- :lii
• k ,
,-
approbation of the amendment of his INjohle I riend
the Secretary of State. . .
. .
The -Earl of CARNARvdAT eXpressed his disap_
probation 'Of the' Definitive Treaty; from its taking
no notice of former Treaties between, this Country
and France, and" particularly pressed the Noble Sc..
'cretary of State. to declare whether such renewal.
had not been •required,bY our Ministets, but reftised
by France.:
The
earl of W EST lIIQRL.ANDi: fn -0 very long
speech, entered 'inlet a-minute di-scussiori of every
part of the Definitive Treaty, which he vindicated
from the adVerse construaions of the Noble Lord
who had introduced the 'Motion.
„Lords DAR NLEY-and EeLtoluotiOuOrt rose toge.:
ther, and the former caught the Lord Chancellor's
eye,_:but the House calling on the latter, the Lord
. •
Chancellor saido, that in stria point OF order the.
Noble_ Eari.had an undoubted right to be' heard .id
referenee,7but7he believed it was not unusual upon
these occasions...
‘fe,r
.their Lordships to' stew their
'' indula.ence to a young- Meipberof their. House.
LordD_A RNIE. T- gave way. ' '
: - Lord ELLEN BQROUGH
..ose. He said, he
obtxuded-himsell with great diffiden.ce upon their
Lordships' notice, new as he was to, that -House,
lint he felt an irresistible. impulse of duty to expreea.
his gratitude as an individual to 'those .Ministers
who had been the means of raising the honour of
the Country, and procuring it at the same time the.
blessings of Peace. He was - desirous likewise of
refuting theaopinion that the renewal of old Trea..
ties was of any use ,to this Country. . Those Trea-
tics' indeed .:were'-iiomore than waste paper,- since
they no longer applied .to .the. aftual situation
and circumstances of the , world, and if they had
.been renewed, it I,vouldhave.been.absolutely neces.;
sary to have excepted, by specific regulations, every
Article in them, as they ;would .etther have been
nugatory oriiijurious. Hehad read'those Treaties
with considerable attention—they:-were out of the
usual course of his industry, . but ht preferred the
general and` acknowledged' principles of
,the general
Law of Nations, as less liable to miseonstruaion-
and abstract reasoning. But the Noble Lord whys
had bryught. forward 'this discussion' with such se..
were 'terms of repHletion- of the Definitive
Treaty, had forgot that he was not always the
strenuous advocate for the renewal of Treaties;
for it will be found. from th& instruetions to our
Negotiator at Lisle, in the drawing up of which
his Lordship, he should suppose, must have had no
inconsiderable share, and a copy of which was ac-
tually upon their LordshipS' Table, that in that Ne-:
gotiation There was a particular injunaioti against
the renewal of certain. stipulations of
.the Treaty , .
or:Utrecht. OUr Sovereignty. in India, upon the
violation of which by the non-renewal of Treaties
so much stress had .been laid, his Lordship said;
he thanked Gad. depended upon surer end stronger
ties than-all the that ever were made could
giver it de—pended upon the right of Conquest in at
legitimate War, a War of Defence, upon. the public.
and repeated recognit',.ln of all the Powers of Europe,
conneEted with commerce, and upon the established
right of possession, the bdst right of all. Our 50...
vereigntyin India is now upwards of forty years
induration, and is older than any existing Go.
vernment in India. It could not be strengthen, -
ed 'by all the Treaties tha't could be devised, and
the Power that could meditate to dispute that title,
must be so divested of all justice and moderation,
that she would not be the more bound by any
Marie§ that could be devised,or entered into, His'-
Lordship argued this point very much. at lengthy.
and placed it' in a very clear and luminous point of
view. He next 'adverted to Malta,,. and insisted '
that the. arrangement with respet. to. that Island, •
was wise and prudent in the highest degree. He,
contended' thtrt the Order was not in such 4'-state of
poverty as the Noble Lord had represented it.---;,_
The Cape of Good Hope, the cession of which
was so much:detilored,.' he thought we were well
rid of. 'He Would tell the Noble Lord; that'
the 'expence of that .post would have been so
great, that the Country would very soon have had
reason to complain of its retention.---fie would tell
him that we could
,not send a chaldron of coals
thither-without the expence of, z 61., tos. andit was
a well known faa, that at the time the autch 'were. •
sending home, during our scarcity, a small supply of
grain to this Cortry; the Goverpment there was.
.obliged to send ships so India, to get rice and °thee
provisions, and. an urgent request came home fora
supply of biscuit, not for the Troops only, but even
for the botch themselves. It had been urged by
the Noble Lord, thato deprived of the Cape, our*
Fleets. must be employed in convoying our-Tradd
and our Troops to India ; but can. it be 'forgotten
that in the War lyefore the last we had France,
Spain,' and Holland against us, with' a Fleet

more equal in power than what they now cad
boast of?---With respea to -the idle cOrripliment
of the Dutch striking their flag to us, he thought-
there ulas not much magnanimity.,in enforcing that
froM the weaker Power, which vt.c did not fequire
from the stronger. Of Portugal much had been said,
hut lie believed,thal that Country was truly, thank-
ful for whif we had_done for it in' the definitive
arrangment for Peace.—ne then entered into a
very' animated strain of panegvric on the present
Minister's, who had accepted their situations under'
circumstances of peuliar gloom and depressiory from.

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