The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-06 00:00:00

_~ ~.
~. ~~~

it

eT.:Yr

Igil'
t*. 1
-•
-

_~~
•.J
`:
;~ .
~~

teneted emancipetson. I will say nothing of the taste, the
good feeling, or the gratitude this evinces for those who,
during so many long years, advocated that measure. For
mylklf, I can say not a word, because I supported it
during no more than seven years ; but can I overlook
the services of those men whose votes and speeches con-
tinued to produce increasing majorities in Parliament,
until at length the Ministers of the Crown yielded Emanci-
pation ? I will now turn to the charge of not having placed Ca-
tholics in places of trust and power. What is the fact ?
Where is the system of neglect pursued towards Catholics?
Let the House look to the total quantity of legal promotions
by the Whigs; let it also look to the previous exclusion of
Catholics, and then say 'whether they had not their fair
share of places and offices ? Two sergeantssat-law had been
appointed ; one was a gentleman of liberal principles, and high
to professional character—the present Member for Monaghan;
the other sergeant was a Catholic. Two King's Counsel had
been appointed, and both were Catholics. One was Mr. Wolfe,
and of the other I shall say no more than that the distinction
was deemed due to his legal and r sfess:—
had been two assistant barriste'
Clerks of the Crown, of w'
There had been one Mr
given to a Catholic, a gt
fully merited it. One
Catholic. These thin;
regard of the Hon. Gent
plains, moreover, that
knows that the sherifTh
that the Government mist
generally the highest
no Catholic sheriffl,
merely make a selecti
Catholic can accept
cried down as having bee
vernme nt, and. this by th,
exclusion of Catholics f'
that extraordinary pow,
rington, the Crown Soli--
are no offences perpetrated not punishable by the existing law.
Therecan be few better autherities than Mr.Barrington on that
subject. But what avails that when the law cannot be enforced
--when it is a mere dead letter—when intimidation has reached
such a height, that witnesses will not give evidence, nor juries
be found to attend for the trial of offences? If they attend and
give verdicts against the accused, their houses are burned—their
crops destroyed ; and it has been at the same time declared,
that this is the vengeance exacted for having solemnly given a
conscientious verdict from the jury-box. On the other hand,
some (there have been but a few instances of this condescension)
have had their crops saved, without the least expense to them-
selves, because they gave a popular vote for men accused of po-
pular delinquencies.—(Hear, hear.) Trial by Jury was a mock-
ery, where violence and outrage thus prevailed—when there
was no hope of getting evidence, even though the real crimi-
nals were as notorious as the sun at noon-day. The Hon. Gentle-
man had charged the English Government with systematic mis-
conduct towards Ire'and. For this purpose he had gone very
far, indeed; he had ascended to the times of Elizabeth ; and
endeavoured to show, that the Saxon Government of those
days was the same as the present. He had gone back, not
only needlessly and causelessly, but mischievously, and had at
length alluded to America, as if it could be a parallel case to
that of Ireland. Of what, let me ask him, did America corn.
plain ? Does he understand the question he has alluded to ?
The Americans complained of being taxed without having a
voice in the Legislature that imposed the tax—of being thus
deprived of the distinctive right and privilege of Englishmen ;
and It was hi such a cause as this that they made the last op.
teal to physical power.—(Hear, hear.) Will the Hon. Gen-
Vermin say that this is a parallel to the condition of Ireland
I grant it might have been so before 17S ---it might have been
so when the Privy Council of England controlled as it chose
the Bills of the Irish Parliament —it might have been so when
the Crown assumed the right of disposing of the surplus re-
venue, without rendering any account to the representatives of
the people ; but I say that there exists no parallel whatever
between both cases, when Ireland possesses her fair share in
the Imperial Legislature, and is heard with as much favour
as Yorkshire or Scotland.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman
says that none but the King, Lords, and Commons of Ireland
are competent to bind her. I admit that, but they merged in
the King, I.ords, and Commons, as at present constituted;
and the Irish branches of the Legislature stood on the same
footing with the English and Scotch Members of it. As the
Honourable Gentleman has not touched on repeal, I will not
go into that question now. My object is to refute his charges
against the Goverment; though the King's speech had already
refuted the most important of them ; for how could it, in the
face of that speech, be asserted that Ministers intended nothing
on the subject of the Irish Church ? The amount of tithes,
in the face of the House, the Honourable Gentleman heti as.
serted—had ventured to assert—was one-tenth of the total
produce. Now, every witness's evidence went to show—every
person who examined the evidence knew, that, so far from
being what the Honourable Gentleman had asserted, it was not
even one-tenth of the rent. Tell me of the commutation
in Scotland there it was calculated as the fifth part of the
rent; but we brought in a Bill which fixed it in Ireland at
the tenth part of the rent ; and did more, est we propose a
means by which the landlord can get rid of it altogether by a
fair and equitable commutation. I will not enter into the
question of alterations made by the Bill of last year ; but this
I say, that without augmenting the ultimate payment, it substi-
tuted a fixed sum instead of a growing one, whatever might be
the powers of the soil or state of cultivation, and made it rest
finally on the landlord. The fairness of Ministers' intentions,
and their anxiety to deal in doe time with so important a clues.
tion, might have been concluded from the motion (of which
notice had been given) upon the state of the Irish Church, its
revenues, and their distribution.—(Hear, hear.) Upon the
motion with which the Hon. Gentleman concluded I shall
touch as little as he himself did. It was, I presume, merely
intended as a vehicle for certain charges, which I have sought
to answer : and I will conclude by declaring that we must
make law respected and Government feared, before it is beloved
in Ireland; and that Parliament is bound to invest Govern.
ment with those means of coercion which are absolutely ne-
ceseary.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to explain a mistake or misrepre.
sentation concerning what he had said. He did not complain
of the postponing of Catholics generally, nor had he imputed
the small number of Catholic Sheriffs to a fixed design on the
part of Government. The real charge referred expressly to
the stipendiary Magistrates, of whom there were no less than
*Xi. It was in that quarter he said Catholics were thrust into
the back ground.
Colonel DAVIES was inaudible for some time, owing to the
noise of Members quitting the House, He declared himself
favourably disposed towards the Ministry ; but such had been
the speech of the Irish Secretary, that he was placed in a very
awkward position, and must, he feared, though most unwil.
tingly, vote against them. By what fatal spirit had that Gen-
tleman bound the Ministry to his measures ? The conclusion
of his speech was enough to drive Ireland to fury. Instead of
conciliating opposition, he justified every abuse. What' if
the Member for Dublin had set jurors aside improperly, did
that justify the practice P--(Hear.) Ireland was declared to
be in a state of insurrection, and the actors were of the
lowest classes ; but was that a reason why no one word
of conciliation should be uttered by the Secretary for Ire-
land ? He would first coerce, and then announce his mea-
sures of conciliation. The Honourable Secretary was appre-
hensive about his character for courage ; he was afraid it
would be said he was afraid ; but a friend of his (Colonel
Davies), who did not yield in personal courage to the Hon.
Gentleman, said to him he was afraid of what might happen
in Ireland. The Duke of Wellington was not ashamed to
make a similar avowal. In fact, the Right Hon. Gentleman
seas a most unfit person for the situation he occupied. He put
coercion in the van ; he showed the sword and concealed the
olive branch.--(Hear, hear.) His whole speech—its tone—
its manner—was offensive, and made him (Colonel Davies) feel
it to be an unworthy and unbecoming one. When a man's
blood boiled at the detail of the sufferings of the Irish people,
there arises nothing but a personal affair between the Hon.
Secretary and the Member for Dublin. With the lattergentle-
man, he (Colonel Davies) confessed a reluctance to associate
much.—( A laugh.) Hew-as a great agitator—(Laughter)—
and had gone beyond the line of real service ; but, if cons.
pelled, he (Colonel Davies) must join him.—(Hear.) He hoped
the Nellie Lord opposite (Althorp) would rise, and give such
assurances as would enable those Members who felt with hint
to ;five a conscientious vote in favour of his Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. ROEBUCK rose, as a person unconnected with any
patty, a free and independent Member of Parliament, but one
not indisposed to vote with the Ministry it' he could, nor to
follow them in such measures as might be useful to the fiber-.
ties of the country. He would not attempt to throw ae*
stades in their way; he would even sacriticVto theun sgysC
portion of his own opinions, but he was not prepared for creatgi
ing a civil war in this country.--(Cries of" Hear, hear.") TO
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland seemed 4'4_ httikitlsat
men were only to be played with as puppets, instsittecif being
treated as beings possessed of feelings, passions, and high emo-
tions. He seemed to consider them as cold creations, jgcapable
of being guided by kindly feelings. It was much to be feared
that, by such arguments, not only Ireland or England, but
the whole world, would be involved.—(A laugh.) This
was no light or simple question. It was of that deep im-
portance that it had compelled him to come forward at that
catty stage of the Parliament to enter his protest against
trickery instead of honest legislation.—(Cheers.) Had the
Hon. Secretary read the history of the world or of this country?
Did he not know of the existence of the two great antagonist
principles, the principles of self government and that of
aristocratic rule? Did he not recognise the legal triumphs
of the former in the repeal of the Test and Corporation
Act, in Emancipation, and, finally, the Reform Bill? Did he
wish that independent men, who saw this, should join him,
and be overwhelmed by the torrent ? From the description of
the Hon. Gentleman himself, it was plain that Ireland was in
complete anarchy and confusion ; law was not administered,
because they could find none to administer it. The Hon. Se-
cretary would take away Trial by Jury and suspend the Ha.
bees Corpus. lie (Mr. Roebuck) would recommend a thing
hitherto
untried—honest government.—(Hear, hear.) Eng-
land had never established good government in Ireland.
There had been strong Governments, indeed ; but he did not at
present mean such a one, which might be wielded by the Hon.
Secretary at pleasure, which would obey his dictation, and fill
the prisons of Ireland. Fears were not the arguments of
Statesmen, and the only remedy' for grievances was to redress
them.—(Cheers.) It was not becoming to appeal to the puny,
pitiful vanity of Parliament, and ask would it be terrified into
justice ? There was no word of vituperation or contempt too
strong for such conduct. Parliament should be addressed
through its understanding alone. Was it possible the first
lesson taught by this, the first Reformed Parliament was, that it
Mew no other force bl4l, that of bayonets and artillery. Would

the first voice of the enfranchised people of England be heard
in the thunder of cannon?—(Cheers.) Would a civil war be the
fruit of its first act ?—:Cries of " Hear.") A feeling to which
he could not give utterance swelled in his heart, when he
was asked to proceed to such violent measures against his
countrymen. Government, it was said, must be feared before
it was beloved. The proper course for creating affectiOn had
not yet been tried. Let the plain obvious mode of real conci-
liation be adopted. He knew the cause of that sneer—(The
Hon. Member seemed here to address the Secretary for Ire.
land)_and If any thing was more distinctive than another of
trUe aristocratic feeling, it *as, that Then any appeal was
made to the kindlier, The more noble and honest feelings, they
were sure t^ Meet it with a laugh. The people of England and
Ireland owed the redress of their grievances to ne. honest
sympathies. The Irish wrung it by the terror of emancipa-
tion, and the English people by their determined stand on Re.
form. There had been anotherdeclaration made that evening,
as to the plans which his Majesty's Government intended to
adopt. They had been told by the Noble Lard (Althorp) that
othr great demand of the people—that of popular instruc-
also to be denied.
,LTHORP Was understood to deny that any thing
said about a refusal of popular instruction,
.OEBUCK—Why, what, is the refusal to take the
ties off newspapers but a denial of popular instruction ?
ALTHORP-1 merely said, I was not prepared at
say that these duties should be taken off
,OEI3UCk knew the language of Palliamentary eva-
ii he thought it high time tePeople of England should
net answers, and That the replies to their demands
!ease to be evasive—(Hear)—and, comparing that an_
tine conduct of the Right Honourable Gentleman, in
toikersuade them to adopt coertive measures towards
id7Wtould not help feeling that the suspicions that were
red of Ministers were not altogether without reality.
'.lt,t.AStiiething about the conduct of his Majesty's Go-
' Which should make the House alive, lest that Go.

. should deceive them. He used plain language on
_ occasions-, and he had not been long enough a Legislator to'
learn the use of evasive expressions. It appeared to him that
the Ministry did not understand the onitiihn of the people at
this time. He stood there as e.n independent Member of that
House--as the representative of an English constituency.
Ile had nothing to do with Ireland—and he asked, as a
representative of the people of England, what he was to do
at this particular juncture—how he was to piedeed—in what
manner he was to act if the Right Hen. Gentleman got, up
and divided the House tilion this Motion ? He had a great
desire to support his Majesty's Ministers, but what should he say
to that dreadful topic in the speech ? Could he tell his consti-
tuents that he had not considered it ? They sent him there in
order that he might give it consideration, "What, then, he
wished to know, did his Majesty's Ministers mean by those
dreadful and mystic,expressions.r—(Hear.) It seemed to him
at this juncture, that it *Mild have been well if hi, Majesty's
Ministers had Carefully inquired into the situation of the
people, and had made themselves acquainted with their mental,
moral, and physical condition. He stood there as a witness to
that condition, and from what he had seen of the people—and
he had gone amongst them for the purpose of judging—he
knew that there had arisen a deep bitter feeling of suspicion,
which was going through them, and which he prayed his Ma-
jesty's Ministers and the House to respect, and not provoke.
That feeling prevailed not Only in Ireland, but in England.
In Ireland it exhibited itself in the shape of Whiteboyism
—in England, in a quiet but determined spirit of resistance,
a feeling which last year induced the people to refuse the pay-
inent of their taxes and parish rates, and rchich feeling was
even now in operation. Men were ttp and stirring. That feel-
ing the Ministers had not Considered—they sundered them-
selves front the bebple—and when within their own mystic
circle, they shut out the evidence of their senses. If, however,
Ihe ref Used to pay attention to the people, the people would
soon rise up in such terrible array against them, that they
would not know where to retire. Hitherto they had been accus-
tomed to appeal to the people to support them in extremities;
but if they divorced thelnseiVes from the people's cause, that
last resource wouid be taken away, from them.—(Hear.) When
he found t declaration made against all improvement in our
Constitution—when he heard the Noble Lord declare the fina.
lity of the Reform Bill—that there was to be no further Con-
,titutional Reform—he could not help asking what was the
real meaning of those declal•ations ? He feared it meant this—
that the Ministry Would arrest as long as they could, and when
they were sts pressed and frightened as to dare resist no longer,
they would then yield to the demands of the people. He prayed
them to pause in their course—to yield to the popular cry,
and not to resist it, for this reason, that if they refused to go
onward with the people until they had driven them into the
,tate Which he described, great evils must inevitably result, and
They would at last be obliged to meet their demands in the face,
loaded with additional difficulties, and with their power of
meeting those difficulties materially diminished. He trusted the
I louse would take these circumstances into their consideration ;
in the meantime he must humbly enter his protest against the
measures proposed for the Government of Ireland by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, as the best possible mode of rousing the
people to a state of fearful dissatisfaction, and depriving the
Government of their confidence and support.—(Cheers from
the Opposition, with cries of " The Speaker, the Speaker," and
" Lord Althorp.")

_ .
Lord ALTHORP rose, but his first sentences were quite
inaudible. He complained of the misrepresentation of his
opinions, which had been made by the Honourable Member
for Bath. He meant nothing less than a denial of the demand
for popular instruction. What he stated was this, that he was
not in a situation to give an answer to the question regarding
the abolition of the taxes on newspapers—that he did not know
at present what the means of the public with respect to the reve-
nue really were. Ile stated even more than this—he stated,
that in his opinion, and it was well known to be so, that the
stamp duty on newspapers was a bad and evil tax.—(Hear, hear.)
When, therefore, the Honourable Member said that he gave a
positive denial, and that he considered that denial as a proof
that he (Lord Althorp) was opposed to liberal measures, was as-
:;uming that his premises were correct; it must be admitted that
his imputation was rather a strong one, and one which he had
not the least ground for making.—(Cheers.) His Honourable
and Gallant Friend who spoke before the Honourable Member
for Bath, accused his Right Honourable Friend with having
spoken in a strong manner, in answer to the Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin. Now, he must say that the
speeches of that Honourable and Learned Gentleman were not
generally calculated to produce mildness on the part of those
opposed to him.—)Cheers.) The Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman, as usual, had not been sparing of vituperation—he had,
as usual, attacked his Right Honourable Friend at every
point—he had attacked him in a speech of great eloquence,
force, and vehemence; surely, therefore, a little warmth on the
part of his Right lion. Friend might be excusable ; but it ap.
peared as though his Right Hon. Friend was not able to move a
muscle of his face without its becoming a subject for criticism—
his opponents giving it that interpretation which best suited
their own views.—(Loud cheers.) He did not think there was
anything in the speech of his Right Hon. Friend calculated to
call forth the observations which had been made upon it. Gen.
tlemen said, and he agreed with them, that it was the bounden
duty of that House to remove every just cause of grievance
from Ireland. Why this was exactly what he was endeavour-
ing to do. The lion. and Learned Gentlemen said he would
not hesitate to criticise the motion to his face—(A laugh)—and
place his own interpretation on it. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman must be aware that he had never been—certainly
he had never intentionally been an enemy to Ireland.—(Hear,
hear.) On the contrary, he had advocated the cause through-
out the whole course of his Parliamentary career—(Cheers)—
' and it was still his intention to remove every grievance that he
possibly could ; but was it no grievance in Ireland, that the
lives and property of his Majesty's subjects were not secure ?
(Hear.) Was it no grievance that murder, burglary, and arson
existed in every part of the country ? and because the Go-
vernment was about to redress other grievances, were they
not to remove these also ? It was impossible to apply them.
selves to the removal of the grievances of Ireland, whilst such
a state of things existed there.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had not denied one of the facts stated by
his Right Hon. Friend. Indeed they were too notorious. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had made many complaints of
the manner inn which the system of the Magistracy of Ireland
was carried on. He did not know what better mode could
have been adopted than that which they followed—of con-
sulting the Lord Lieutenants and principal persons in the diffe-
rent districts, who, he it observed, were generally persons whose
principles accorded with those of his Majesty's Government ;
for one of the main charges brought against them, if they ap-
pointed a Nobleman to a Lord-Lieutenancy, or any person
taking other office, whose principles were at all at variance
gwith theirs—the charge brought against them was, that they
did not carry on the Government on party principles.—
Hear, hear.y- The Hon. and Learned Member had, to his
"great surprise, objected to the establishment of Petty
Sessions. (" Hear," from Mr. O'Connell.) This was ex-
traordinary, as it had long been considered one of the
desiderata for Ireland, that judicial investigations should
he made before the public. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man complained that the responsibility being divided amongst
so many, there would in reality be little or nose.—(Mr.
O'Connell said, he complained of the resposibility being con.
solidated—not divided.) He admitted that responsibility, by
being divided, became weakened ; but when the proceedings
were carried on in secret there was none at all, or at least but
eery little. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman stated,
that he gave him a pledge that the Jury Bill should have the
support of Government. lie did give him that pledge, be.
lieving that he had full authority for so doing. The Jury Bill,
hewever, was dropped at the end of the Session without his
knowledge, as he had already intimated to the Honourable
arid Learned Gentleman. He was sorry for it, but it was not
his fault, and the pledge he gave him at the time, and long
afterwards, he considered would be fully performed. After the
speech of his Right Honourable Friend, he did not feel it ne-
cessary to entertain the House much longer on this subject. It
was the most anxious desire of the Government to remove all
the grievances of Ireland, but it must be remembered that these
grievances were of long standing, and that even if every mea-
sure which the most sanguine Reformer could desire were car.
reed into immediate execution, still some time must elapse
before the dissatisfaction which prevailed there could subside ;
and whatever grievances they might attempt to remedy, and
however successful those remedies might ultimately be, still
they could not at once disarm discontent, they could not look
fora miracle. They were bound to take measures for the pro•
tection of his Majesty's subjects resident in that country, and
the preservation of their lives and property, for it was in vain
to expect amelioration unless they adopted the necessary steps
to put down outrage.—(Cheers.)
Mr. M. D. HILL observed, that the question before the
House was, whether such powers as the Government de.
manded, were necessary or not. If the great object of tranquil-
lizing Ireland could be obtained without those powers, then it

would be wrong to grant them. Since, however, they could not
ascertain this point, the concession of these powers must depend
on the degree of confidence which they had in his Majesty's
Ministers. He thought they were bound to have confidence in
the Government till they had proved themselves undeserving.
Ile had listened with attention to the various speeches that
were Made, and he thought the present Ministers were entitled
to these additional powers, taking on themselves the awful re.
sponsibility of exercising them. He was surprised that the
Hon. Member for Dublin should complain of wrongs inflicted
upon Ireland so far back as the time of Henry VIII., James 1.,
and Charles 1., for he should have remembered, that if
Ireland suflbred under the tyrannical sway of the Stuarts, so
also did this country ; and that it was the resistance of the in.
habitants of this country which laid the foundation of a better
system of Government, the good effects of which would, he
trusted, soon be felt in Ireland itself. He denied that the
people of England were indifferent to the wrongs of Ireland.
As the Representative of a very large constituency, he begged
to assure him of the sympathy of that constituency for the
grievances of the Irish nation. He thought the powers re.
quired should be granted to the Ministry, they taking the
~-hale responsibility ; buf if it was found that they sought those
powers for the purpose of governing Ireland,vand not for the
sake of ameliorating her condition—if they showed a haste to
place her under rigid control, and a tardiness to redress her
wtcngs, then would they indeed deserve that reprobation which
such conduct could not fail to draw down upon them. He
begged the indulgence of the House--(Hear)—and unless
something more urgent were produced, he should vote for the
address to the throne. .

Mr LALOR protested against the measures contemplated
by Ministers with reference to Ireland. The forces they had
already were not sufficient for the purposes they were in-
tended for. The great reason of the excesses was, the inter-
ference of Government agents among the people. One in.
stance of their interference he recollected, where a police
chief, who was called to give evidence in a case where his
party had killed a young man, and alleged as a reason, that
he had received an intimation from the Secretary of the
Lord-Veutenant, acting upon the suggestion of the Attorney-
General. This was law.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He recollected
the feeling exclamation of the father of the lad that was killed :
—" Ah, Sir, if I had been called on to give evidence, and re-
tbsed like that gentleman has done, I should have been hand-
cuffed and sent to prison; but there is one law for him and
another for me."—(Hear.) He (Mr. Lalor) had heard the
agitators taunted with being the cause of all the excesses
and crimes; but he repelled the charge as most infamously
false, and would say his sincere conviction was, that but for
the interference and advice of the agitators in all parts of that
kingdom, there would be much more crime and bloodshed
than at present. There were many causes to agitate Ireland,
but the great branch of agitators were the hireling incendia-
ries, who were sent about by those who ought to repress them,
stirring up the people, already goaded by their deep injuries,
inflaming their passions, and drawing them into crime, arid to
form illegal associations, which, as soon as formed, are in-
formed against by these wretches. With respect to the asser-
tion that ij Ireland no one dares give evidence on pain of
death, he denied it altogether ; and defied any one, even the
Hon. Member who seemed so well acquainted with the Queen's
County, to produce any instance where any witness or juror
had suffered for the lawful discharge of his duty. Yet this was
the only ground assigned by the Ministry for taking away a
portion of the constitutional liberty of Irishmen.
Mr. CLAY, as the representative of a constituency which
iti no point was second to any in the empire, could not give
a silent vote in voting for the address. He should give his
name very reluctantly without a more distinct pledge from
Government of efficacious remedies for the evils contem-
plated. He was sure he spoke the sense of the majority of his
constituents in declaring his full opinion that coercion would
utterly fail of success. He would ask, too, however modified
they might make the system of collecting tithes, did they
intend to appropriate these enormous revenues, when col-
lected, to the support of a mouldering religion, which only
administered religious consolation to one-sixteenth of the po-
pulation ? He wished to be distinctly informed of the pro-
posed appropriation. He was most grateful to the men who
had—he would not say, procured Reform, for that the people
had done for themselves—(Hear)—but who, having dis-
cernment enough to see the spirit of the times, had given
an impulse and direction to the mighty spirit which had thus
gone forth. He was, therefore, unwilling to believe that such
men would now draw back, and fail ultimately in carrying for.
ward to its proper result the legitimate and satisfactory re-
medy of all our grievances. He would not trespass longer on
the House—(Hear)--but would conclude by warning his
Majesty's Ministers that the majority which now appeared so
riumphant in their favour will fail them if they exhibit any
falling off from a determined spirit to carry forward every be-
neficial measure to its fullest extent.—(Hear.)

Mr. GILLON expressed his determination not to vote
for the address, because
.he felt that the cause of the labouring
classes--the strength and stamina of the nation—was not suf.
ficiently consulted by Ministers; and he was also dissa'istiecl
with the inefficacy of the contemplated reform in the Church;
to see that the separation of the monstrously unholy alliande
of Church and State was not proposed, and that the so called
Church property was still to be applied to Ecclesiastical pur-
poses. Reform, according to Lord Althorp's intentions, in
common with the other Ministers, would turn out nothing.
When that Chancellor is asked for the abolition of Taxes on
Literature, lie says he must first see how the revenue looks by
the end of the year. When the people ask us for the abolition,
of the Taxes on Malt, Assessed Taxes, Taxes on Soap and In-
surances, what are we to tell them ? That Lord Althorp will
give it them by and bye ; that mean time they are to go on the
same as usual year after year, and find Reform still as far off as
ever; while the Bishops, Deans, and other devourers arc to
continue fattening on their tithes. However, he was sure that
the time, if not come, was near at hand, when the monstrous
association ofChurch and State would be dissolved, and when the
Ministers of the Gospel should not sit as Legislators, but reli.
gion be put on its best and surest foundation, purity and truth.
Mr. GRATTAN had never been more astonished or indig-
nant than at the conduct of the Secretary for Ireland through-
out. The conduct of Ministers was now worse than ever,
when they called upon a Reformed Parliament to punish a
whole country for the excesses of two counties. To subject
the whole of Ireland to penal law, suspending Juries every-
where—such a thing was never heard of in England. When
the Habeas Corpus had been suspended there, it was on gene-
ral rgasons and minute inquiry. Never, under the most tyran-
nical; reigns, had the most tyrannical Ministry ever proposed
such a thing to the most slavish of Parliaments. As to the
present speech, it was a poor, meagre speech ; unjust, un-
worthy, and artificial. The whole intention was to stop the
question about the Union; but this could not be done;
none of their fine proclamations had ever done it, nor
would this. None of the facts of the case had been
stated. No mention made of the twenty-two gentlemen sent
to Ireland for the purpose of investigation, nor of the many
other gentlemen who had declared that coercion there would
never attain its end. No mention made of the evidence given
by Mr. O'Connor of the state of abject poverty of the inhabi.
tants, dying of starvation, and naked in the ditches—
an account to harrow up the soul. No mention of the
fact, that out of 8,000,000 of the people, only 1,600,000
got employment, and that of the most wretched description.
The point is to remedy this people's great grievances. To give
them food, or the means of getting it. With respect to tithes,
Government had sent its officer, who got up 5,000 different
actions for the amount of so many farthings on account of
tithes. lie had known of proceedings instituted by the King's
Attorney for the amount of tithes actually paid. If the Hon.
Member had been intelligible last Session, much trouble and
bloodshed would have been spared. The people had committed
excesses, it was true, but these excesses they were goaded into.
It was a monstrous thing, as the Honourable Member for
Hull had said, that a set of people should go to an island and
carry off all the rents, and expect the people to be quiet.
There had been a patience of six hundred years, and a patience
.of twenty-five years since the Union, and all along an ardent
desire for separation. There had been a Tory party in Ireland,
but it was gone. There was a Whig party, but they must
take care that their party did not go off too. It was a dreadful
thing to see military going from parish to parish for the pro.
tection of an unfortunate cow.—(Laughter, and cries of
"Oh f") The army was degraded by such a service.—(oh.
He was present at such a place where two English officers were
sent on this duty, and both expressed the greatest dissatis-
faction at the service, degrading them to pig-sellers. Besides,
they were acting contrary to law, for he could prove seizures
for tithe in the year 11;32. Besides, no Magistrate, high or
low, has any right to call c ut the military, except where there
is a riot. He remembered reading an old Irish book of a Vic-
torious Circuit made by seine Judge round Ireland, there being
no opposition. His Majesty's Ministers seemed to wish to re-
vive this circuit. The Marquis of Anglesea had expressed him-
self dissatisfied with the employment of a military force. lie
himself was attached to the English people, not on account of
their wealth or talent, for there was as much talent in Ireland,
but on account of their institutions. He trusted that here-
after it would not he adduced, that after 000 years of govern-
ment, there were two great parties dominant—Tories who sup-
ported the pitch-cap and triangle, and Whigs, who supported
the bayonet and bullet. Ireland, he was well convinced, could
never be held by such means.
An Hov. MEMBER was :addressing: the
House on the same
subject, when
Mr. O'CO.NNELL suggested an adjournment of the discus.
sion, which was moved by Mr. L. BULWER.
The House accordingly adjo irned at a quarter to twelve.

In addition to the Noti,es .Motions given in the Re-
port of the Debwe in the House of Commons were the
following
Lord John Russell—To move Resolution, That all persons
who will question any future return of Members to serve iii Par-
liament, upon any allegation of bribery or corruption, and who
Member, or on his
Y payment of money
sohr aol hther reTarpde,t
to hri a sypeecbietei cnail yada
el I ebgye
aai
account, or with his privity, since the time of such return, in
pursuance or in furtherance of such bribery or corruption, may
question the same at any lime within `2.8 days after the date of
such payment ; or if this House be not sitting at the expiration
of the said '221 days, then within 14 days after the day when the
House shall next meet.—(Wednesday, Feb. ii.)
Mr. Rigby Wason—To move Resolution, That when a peti-
tion against the return of any Member shall contain an allega-
tion that such return has been effected by bribery and corrup-
tion, it is the duty of the Select Committee ~ppointed to try the
merits of such petition, to receive the evidence which may be
offered in support of such allegation, without requiring the pe-
titioners to prove that such bribery and corruption was practised
by the Sitting 3tember, or his agents,—(Wednesday, Feb. 6.)
Mr Hume—To abolish all military sinecure appointments.—
(Thursday, Feb. 7.)
Mr. Charles Buller—Select Committee, to which all election
petitions presented during the present Session of Parliament
shall be referred.—(Thursday, Feb. 7 )
Lord John Russell—Select Committee. to consider of the best
mode of affording to the Members of this House information to

COURSE OF EXCHA
Amsterdam C.f.' 12 2
Ditto, at sight 12 0
Rotterdam ''' U 12 '27
Antwerp 12 7
Hamburg M. 13.13 147
&Rona 13 141
Paris, 3 days' sight 05 8a
Ditto 0 U 26 5
Bordeaux 26 10
Berlin
Frankfort on Maine, Ex. M.:52i-
Petersburgh, ruble, 3 Us. 10 0
Vienna, effective fl. 2 M. 10 11
Prieste do lOl2
Madrid `Al',
Cadiz 36y,
Gilboa
Barcelona 36
Seville 36
Gibraltar 47

.NGE YESTFRDAY.

!Leghorn 46N
Genoa °6 0
Venice 46V2
Malta 46
N3plelil .
Palermo per oz. 120
Lisbon
Oporto 48!4
Rio Janeiro
Bahia 32
Buenos Ayres
Dublin, 21 days' sight 1
Cork 1

BULLION, PER OZ.
X. B. d.
Portugal Gold, coin 0 0 0
Foreign Gold, in bars 3 17 9
Doubloon: 3 16 0
New Dollars
Silver bars, standard 0 4 10i

4,
rte A:A- .--_„s ,
~ , .
w.,,,....;,1_ 1-1111-,„:1, If
LiArea 4* ~,,,
v: •-ii`e: .', „, 4, ,_ •
---- -- " •f'"l",.."'z-,:ii,"A, -.. Vi, g 5.

LONDON,
WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 6, 1833.

The Address on the KING'S Speech was carried last
night in the House of Lords. On this occasion the Earl
of ABERDEEN threw off one of those caustic, desultory
harangues, which may be taken as fairly indicative of the
exact amount of hatred which the Opposition entertain
towards Ministers. Of course, his Lordship's sagacity
was at variance with every thing they had yet done.
Their foreign policy in particular was infamous, nor could
he conceal his virtuous astonishment "that two great
Powers, like Fiance and England, should unite to despoil
the weak while making hypocritical professions of friend-
ship." The benevolent epithet " weak " his Lordship, of
course, applies to Holland, who, however, notwithstanding
this weakness, has contrived, by some strange influence
or other, to set the remonstrances of England
and France at defiance for upwards of two years,
and even to keep all Europe on the qui vice, and under
arms for the same period ! If for " weak" his Lordship
had used the term " obstinate," he would have bit off the
Dutchman's character in a word. But this would wear
too much the aspect of sincerity for a disciple of the
Metternich or " expediency" school.
Again, his Lordship was singularly bitter against the
French. The spleen tainted every word he uttered. He never
would believe (not he!), in the " good faith" of France ; he
never would believe in it " under any Government," certainly
not under that born of the barricades. French ambition had
always been the cause of the greater part of the wars of
Europe, and the late revolution had convinced him that
Monsieur was still unchanged and incorrigible. Now
if ever there existed, in any age of the world, a revolu-
tion, formed, strengthened, and consummated on pacific
principles, the late French revolution is that one. But this,
again, it would not have suited his Lordship's tactics to ac-
knowleige.
From the whole tenor of his Lordship's speech, which
for a set 'one was deplorably inefficient, we can clearly
perceive that the Opposition intend throughout the ses-
sion to act rigid!y on the principle, that Ministers can do no
right. Their opposition, therefore, will not be tame and
cautious, hut headstrong and sweeping. It will not be nega-
tive like their sagacity, but positive like their prejudices.
Lord GREY'S reply was animated, though it might have
been more encouraging. His Lordship did not very
satisfactorily defend his (at best) doubtful system of policy
towards Portugal—a system, which, so far as we can yet
perceive, has neither aim nor object, neither beginning,
middle, nor end. Still, taking his present arduous position
into consideration, there was more to approve than disap-
prove in his speech.
Late in the debate the Duke of WELLINGTON figured
to some extent, and with his wonted felicity. He trod
the same ground that Lord ABERDEEN had trod before
him, and in the warmth of his reverence for the
Dutch KING, almost forgot that he was a British Peer.
His Grace has; so many hundred thousand good reasons
for being a stanch Briton, that we arc rather sur•
prised he threw out a hint to Holland about the
expediency of her despatel ing a fleet to the unpro-
tected mouth of the Thames. Doubtless, if Strath-
fieldsaye had been in the Isle of Sheppey, instead of in
the heart of Berks, this hint would have been the very
last that would have escaped his Grace's lips. His
language to illynheer would then have been,—" Your
Majesty has my free permission to despatch your fleets to
any part of the British coast you please, except the Isle of
Sheppey. But no trespassing there,! The bare idea is abhor-
rent to all my notions of propriety. I am ever, as your Ma-
jesty must be aware, proud and happy to promote your inte-
eats ; but common sense, and every political precedent, remind
me that in forwarding the welfare of Number Two, I must
not wholly forget poor Number One."
We have said more about his Grace's speech than it
deserves, because it happens to be his first, and contains,
moreover, a strong declaration of political faith. In no
other respect does it deserve a line, not even a word, of
comment. It is absurd and drivelling to a degree passing
all his other oratorical effusions. " From Marlborough's
lips the words of dotage flow." Alas ! that it should
have come to this !

The Address in the House of Commons last night was
the subject of an animated and rather acrimonious debate.
The state of Ireland formed the grand topic of contention,
in which Lord ORDIELIE led the way, in a speech cal-
culated more to irritate than conciliate the pre-
sent angry spirit of that tong misgoverned country.
Mr. O'CoasELL retorted on the Noble Lord with accu•
mutated vengeance, denouncing the address as " brutal
and bloody." The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then
went into a long account of the wrongs under which
Ireland had so long suffered, and was now suffering. Her
past misfortunes were attributable to misgovernment, and
her present unhappy state to the calamity of Mr. STAN-
LEY'S administration. For all these evils a Repeal of the
Union was, in the opinion of Mr. O'CONNELL, the only
remedy.
Mr. STANLEY, as might have been expected, answered
the prime " Agitator," in a strain of eloquent indigna
tion, which was more remarkable for its personality than
sound constitutional doctrine. We go entirely with
Mr. STANLEY in his argument against a repeal
of the Union, but we could wish that his mode of
ruling the Irish people were directed more to alleviate
their condition than exasperate their misery. The Right
Hon. Gent. read a catalogue of murders, outrages, and
other offences committed during the last year in some parts
of Ireland which are truly revolting to humanity. But we
much doubt if military measures be the best plan for
nettling that country in its present disorganized and
deplorable condition. The employment of force, with-
out the introduction of such legislative enactments
as shall give the people confidence in the good intentions of
the Government, will only embitter their animosity more
than ever. Let Ministers hasten to give Ireland
an assurance of their anxious disposition to redress her
grievances, and the work of regeneration is half com-
pleted when begun. Ireland wants justice : she
must he ruled by kindness, not by the sword. That
Ministers mean well, we readily believe, but they are
taking a very ungracious way to show it. But it is not
too late to amend, and we think that the temper of last
night's debate will convince them that moderation is the
better course.

The speech of Mr. ROEBUCK was one of tne best_.
if not the very best. It was patriotic—and highly con.
stitutional, as well as eloquent. The answer of Lord
ALTIIORP to the charge of the Honourable Member re•
specting the taxes on knowledge was evasive, and, we think,
unworthy of his Lordship's character for consistency. But
we must refrain for the present. The debate was ad-
journed to this evening on the amendment of Mr. O'CON-
NELL, that the address be referred to a Committee of the
whole House.

The paragraphs in the KING'S Speech respecting Church
Reform and a Commutation of Tithes, fully confirm the
fears we would fain have expressad some month or two
back, when the Ashurst petition, praying that England
and Ireland might be put upon the same footing with re-
gard to these matters, called our attention to the rumoured
intentions of his MAJZSIY'S Minis VII. It appears, as far

as we can gather from the language of Ministers, both in
the KING'S Speech, and i❑ the debate of last night, that a
very different measure of justice indeed is to be meted out
to England and Ireland.
It is said that the peculiar situation of Ireland warrants
an intervention there which would not be justifiable in
this country. Is i' meant by this that the Church. Re-
form in England is to be delayed, or granted piecemeal, or
not to be granted at all ? If it is, we will say, that how-
ever important Church Reform may be in Ireland, it is
equally important and equally imperative in this country.
The abolition of the grasping, grinding, and anti
Christian dominion of the Established Church in Ireland
is less a religious than a political improvement. It is
not intended to relieve the followers of that Church from
the effects of its intolerance, hut to remove from the Ro-
man Catholics of Ireland one of those causes of irritation
under which they have become turbulent, and which, i
continued, would lead to rebellion. No one will deny that
the Irish Catholics have a just claim to relief, but we
challenge the partisans of Ministers to show that the Eng-
lish Protestants have not an equal right to enfranchisement
from the clerical tyranny under which they suffer. The
tithe system in England goes to tl e total destruction of
that respect for the Church Establishment, without which
religion itself, as a portion of that moral engine which
good Governments attempt to exercise over the bulk of the
community, and which is far preferable to the rule of the
bayonet, becomes useless, if not odious It saps the founda-
tion of Christianity, inasmuch as it tends to blunt Christia❑
feeling. It is fruitful of dissension sterile of public
virtue—a continual source of anger and heart-burning.
It is to this system that we must ascribe the decadence of
the established religion—the crowded state of Dissenting
places of worship—the thin attendance of men in our
Establisbesi Churches. If the established religion, as the
religion of the State, be worth preserving, it can only
he done by the immediate reform of its abuses. It will
not do to temporize with the people of England, who are
quite as indignant at the exactions of their own superior
clergy as the Roman Catholics of Ireland are obnoxious
to the dominion of a Church whose tenets they reject,
but to support which they have been taxed beyond en-
durance, although from difference of character and reli-
gious belief the English have not yet threatened to rebel
against so despotic and unchristian a system.
It is a mistake to suppose that slight modifications in
the Church Establishment will satisfy the people of Eng-
land. They will he satisfied with nothing short of the
extinction of tithes—the reduction of the incomes of the
superior clergy—the abolition of pluralities, and of the
aristocr .tical privilege of chaplainries; and the espializa •
tion of Church revenues.

Mr. Alderman WArrnanAN expired this morning, after
a lingering illness. A contest in the City may, therefore,
be shortly expected. If it were possible for a Tory to
succeed, we think the LORD MAYOR as unobjectionable a
candidate as any of the Conservative order.

SECOND EDITION.

S UN-OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

IMPERIALPARLIAMENT

THIS EVENING.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The House met shortly before Four o'clock.
Mr. SHEIL moved for a return, specifying the amount of
all fees, &c. paid to the Law Officers of the Crown upon ac-
count of the recovery of tithes in Ireland during the last year,
and the amount of money paid to the Attorney-General •f
Ireland ; also an account of the fees, &c. payable in the Court
of Chancery in Ireland ; of the sums paid on account of the
military in Ireland; of the names of each Roman Catholic
tried at the last Clonmel Assizes, and of the number of Roman
Catholic Jurors.

Lord A LTHORP did not rise to object to the returns, but,
as the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland was not present, it
would be more regular, and much better, to postpone the
motion for the present. . .

Mr. SHEIL then gave notice for this day se'nnight.
THE CORN LAWS.

Lord MILTON gave notice that on Wednesday, the •20th
inst., he should call the attention of the House to the state of
the existing Con► Laws.—(Loud cries of Hear.)
Mr. HARVEY gave notice that on the sth of March he
should move for a list of the names of all persons on the Eng-
lish, Scotch, and Irish pension lists, with the amount of each
pension, the period of the grant, the public service, or other
cause of the grant, and whether the person enjoying it receives
any other salary for allowcnce from the public fund.
The same HON. MEMBER then moved for a return of the
number of cases or matters in the office of each Master in Chan.
eery that were pending in 1825, the number of cases referred
to each Master each year since then, and the number of general
reports made by each Master during that period. If the At-
torney-General had been present, it was his (Mr. Harvey's) in-
tention to have asked whether it was intended to bring forward
any measure for improving the practice of the Court of Chan.
eery.
Mr. O'CONNELL seconded the motion, and the returns
were ordered.

Mr. HARVEY then moved for a return of the number of
cases entered for trial in the Courts of King's Bench, Com-
mon Pleas, and Exchequer, on the first day of Hilary Term
in 1831, 1832, and 1833 ; also a return of the amount of sala-
ries paid to the Judges of the superior Courts at Westminster
in 179'2, showing their augmentation since then, and the period
when.—Ordered.

Tho HoN. MEMBER then moved for a return of the amount
of compensation, fees, &c., paid to each Master in Chancery
in 179'2 and 1833, specifying from which source such amount
was derived. He then gave notice that on the 17th March he
should move for the appointment of a Select Committee to in-
quire into the land revenues of the Crown.
Mr. GODSON gave notice that on the 14th March he should
move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to
patents for inventions.
Mr. HUME suggested that the motion had better be de-
ferred till it was known what arrangements were to be made
upon the subject, in which suggestion Sir Andrew Agnew ac-
quiesced.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL had to present a petition,
numerously signed, from Dudley, praying the House to re-
peal the Speaker's Pension Act.
Mr. WARBURTON had been requested to support the
prayer of the petition, apparently under the notion that he
had a Bill prepared upon the subject. At present he only
begged it to be understood that he had no such Bill prepared.
The petition was then laid upon the table.
Mr. ROBINSON moved for a return of the number of ves-
sels which had passed the Sound within a certain period.—Or-
dered.
Mr. DIVETT gave notice that on Friday he should move for
a return of the names and number of the municipal officers in
the different Corporations in England and Wales, and the
charters under which they held their privileges.
Mr. HUME moved for returns of the names and rank, and
length of service, of every person in the diplomatic employ of
his Majesty, and accounts of other matters, of which he had
given notice last session.
Lord ALTHORP then rose, but
Mr.O'CONNELL, interrupting him, said, he wished to ask a
question which related to the army, to that portion of it which
was stationed in the Indies. Complaints had reached him,
which left no doubt upon his mind but that that portion of the
army was left without any of the comforts of their religion, than
which he knew of no greater deprivation. He wished to ask
the Hon. Secretary at War whether there was any intention of
applying a remedy for this grievance.
Sir JOHN HOBHO USE considered the matter complained of
as a grievance, and was of opinion that some provision ought to
be made for it. At present the Secretary 'at War acted under
a minute of the Treasury, which took away all power from
him. In the meantime all he could say on the subject was, that
it would receive his best attention. . .

Lord ALTHORP then rose to move the usual sessional
orders. The first business of the House was the recep-
tion of petitions, which, under the old plan, was very im-
perfect.— (Hear.) He considered also, that, under the old
plan, that subject had interfered much with the legitimate
business of the House. He was speaking to many gentle-
men who had been in the last House of Commons, who knew
that it had often been endeavoured to be remedied by
i very t
important
different modes, the one which had been most generally followed
was Members balloting fur their turns, a mode which he
caonmseiclinebreder
I h
toni b
te h a n
voet
il
hi s c oo
sse p i
on nt
a he busi s of
most with
the House, or its dignity. Under those circumstances
pe-
tition during the whole of the session, without having any op-
portnnitsy of presenting it. Another mode had been, that of
presenting petitions after the usual business of the House
had been finished, but the House would at once see, that
any petition which required discussion, could not at that time,
be paesented with any advantage. In consequence of those unsa-
tisfactory modes, at the suggestion of the Hon. Baronet opposite,
a Committee: had been appointed—a Committee of the whole
House, before whom petitions were to be presented, and to cease
at a certain hour. This plan had also been found ineffectual.
He thought themore desirable that the petitions should be pre-
sented while the House was regularly sitting with the Speaker
in the Chair. Such had been the custom hitherto, and it was
most desirable that it should continue so. The plan which
he should have the honour to propose, and a statement of
which had been published for the information of Members was
to that effect
Every Gentleman would have :an opportunity
of presenting his petitions, and much more conveniently than
under a former system. The proposition was,this that the Speaker
should take the chair at 12 o'clock, and sit till three, that at three
the Hose should adjourn, in whatever business it was then en-
gaged, and that the debate on the petition, which might then
be under discussion, should be adjourned till the following
morning ; that at 5 the House should again meet, and the busi.
ness on the order book be immediately commenced and pro-
ceeded with,which would give ample time without sitting too late
for the legislative functions of the House. It was very desirable
that thus an interval should be made between the presentation
of petitions and the general business. In the first place, it
secured that the public business should commence at five, and

then it was extremely advantageous to those gentlemen 'frs
had attended the presentation .of petitions, by affording t";)
an opportunity of taking some refreshment.—(Hear; b,„l
Under the new arrangement, he would undertake that '"*" ;
he himself, or some other of the Ministers, should 31°51:0
present during the time when petitions were Pres° ao
Another part of the plan related to the number of tn't
gentleman should speak on a petition. For Gentler',
to speak four times on any subject, was calcUlorst`;
very much to delay business, and wholly tinnecei ,10
By the present proposed form, a gentleman would bale
at
opportunity of speaking upon presenting a petition, and n°itt
of addressing the House upon it, moving that it be Praildt
The proposition he had now to make was---" That
do meet every day, except Saturday, at 12 o'clock, for tnero,
pose of receiving petitions, and disposing of private bust':
and continue to sit till 3 o'clock, unless sooner adjourned.' a
Sir R. PEEL considered it unnecessary to occupy the
80
long on this resolution. Whatever arrangement might
made, and found to be for the general convenlen`w,
li,/
Honourable Members, and which was likely to lead fb
facilitating of public business,it could not but receive his sttl',„,o
At the same time he thought it premature to prom(' to 7,0,
arrangements on this subject at present. The House was
ing new arrangements, composed as it was of nearly avv:iii
Members, who could not be supposed to be very conversant r(.
public business. Until the House had some idea of the
liable number of petitions that were likely to be pro-,,Fti
t,IJ
and until the new Members had some little experiene"
public business, he thought the House could not be ani
tj
called upon to adopt those arrangements. He doubted wbe'll
many Members of the present House had even read thew
A
port of the Committee of the last session, which was "''d
up by many of the most able and experienced solie,"o
of the House, and which was now sought to be
tirely overturned by the present plan. He would, therelW
put it to the new Members themselves to say whether
really felt competent to dispose of such a question and Werea-0
quainted with public business. The Hon, Baronet WO 1
-0
1
that meeting at 9in the morning was open to great obje,",
If the Noble Lord had proposed that public busisies hould Des ‘„
s s

at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock in the morning—(Hear, hear)-1:„
would be an entirely different thing ; but he ventured t° kr;lit
diet that the plan proposed by the Noble Lord would 113''e
effect of postponing public business until six o'clock
evening. It was to be feared that if the Committee Wercje
"
pointed to sit at nine, the plan would be found not to an.,4
The arrangement proposed by the Noble Lord might d 0 ".0'
well for Gentlemen who lived in the vicinity of the 14°au;
They might be able to attend Committees at nine O.Ct '',9l
but to Gentlemen living several miles distant, he
Robert Peel) considered it a great tax to reeluireA
them to attend Committees at nine o'clock, after haa'', k
sat up the previous night to a late hour. To him it Sin,
matter also of surprise bow it could be expected that the o,
ters of the Crown could attend Committees from 9 to 12 O.CI:k

that they should then come down to the House to hear
tions till 3 o'clock, and then hare two hours, for what ?
to attend Cabinet meetings ! The thing was utterly iMP°'}'
in his view, at least the business could never be well
when so much was required from every Member.--(11d
Then the attendance of the Ministers of the Crown in rota

would never give, in his opinion, satisfaction. Added W"y
it frequently happened that, on the presentation of petition,.'ol
would not sayacrimonious,but spirited and interestingdiscuOcits
took place, snd to interrupt those discussions exactly Oto
clock struck three would be attended with great inconvenie
and it was ludicrous to suppose that the House, after 50'k .ot
interruption, would meet again at five. In fact, the separ,i
of the House at three o'clock would be most inconvenient' a
would tend to delay, rather than facilitate the public busin re.
In a new, and, with all deference, he would say, an WeLld
rienced House of Commons, the plan of the Noble Lord 'I;
be found greatly inconvenient. He would suggest whet
he'
would not be desirable to give the House the experience,,,e,
three or four weeks, by which time they would be able to
tain the number of petitions that would probably be preen
and the House would be a little more experienced.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, the present was the fourth Pf it
ment during which he had the honour of sittir,,Drisl
that House, and he believed he had sat as many hours ' tfr
that time as any other Member. The inconvenience o'ol
present mode of doing business was perfectly obvious, bt•eti
did not think that the plan of the Noble Lord would re" %,
them much, if at all. The inconvenience that had heeqieord
perienced before when the House met early to receive Petl;,,j;
was that they were received with empty benches, and if the
met again at a certain hour for no other business but that°lo#
titions, the same consequence would be the result. lie
had petitions enough for a fortnight or three weeks' e
was strongly opposed to transacting business at night ; oi
was no reason why that should be the only House i°tipit
world that did their business by night. It was high obi
to make some change, and it was worth:considering, o_,ll
instead of sitting four days a week, as before, for Vic".fili
days were not considered business days, they should
meet three days at ten o'clock in the ra°bpd
and make an order, that if forty members, werraisel
then present, all whoa should be absent °ld
excuse, should be taken into custody—(Laughterl—theY'lol
give two hours for petitions, and from 12 o'clock till 810001
evening transact all the public and other business. BY of
time the whole business of a Private Bill could be done 1,1
sitting, and the expense of keeping persons in town w cue,
materially reduced. He admitted that by this plan the
might be prolonged, as some Members might say, t°oo,
great inconvenience ; but no man sent there by the ;pile
had a right to say, that they were inconvenienced. It iO;4
be objected that by this arrangement none of the idi°',:ef
would be able to attend, for as they had to attend to tbe''
to
cial business in the day, they could not come down
..,0110
House before the evening ; but on the other hand, they
have three whole days for their official business, Ana:, tifli
evening after the House adjourned. On the whole, ";
not think the plan of the Noble Lord would ansWelof'
he thought it would be better to postpone it, lie°
future period. He knew, that early adjournments of the or
would be moved, and before long he should have to moveus;)
journment at 9 o'clock. Up to 179'2 it appeared by the J°
that the Order of the day was read at 1 o'clock. It 'VA! ,1
then that they had got into their present method of el°,
rather of not doing, the public business. It was now
a Reformed House of Commons to put a stop to it, and n°
from twenty to thirty orders after 12 at night. edl
Colonel DAVIES did not think that the plan sugges„
the Noble Lord opposite would be found to answer. ptr
satisfied that nineteen times out of twenty, 40 Members "041
not be collected at twelve o'clock. He agreed for therod
part in the suggestions thrown out by the Right Hon. 8
the Member for Tamworth.
Lord A LTHORP said, that since it appeared W .0?
general feeling of the House, that the plan he had Pr
was not the best that could be adopted, he was willing '

- .
journ the debate for a fortnight.
Mr. LITTLETON was of opinion that three weep

be better than a fortnight.
After a few words from Sir ROBERT PEEL, Mr. WO' „ 05' °
Sir T. FREMANTLE, it was agreed that the question shY--
i
v!
adjourned till this day fortnight.
easid
Lord ALTIIORP then moved one of the usual 5C
orders.

The SPEAKER then put the motion. t
Mr. LITTLETON submitted that some arrangemen
be entered into as to the printing of the petitions, as (Wil"
last five years they had cost 12,0001. He suggested th3o
should be referred to a select Committee to report at ig
to the House on their contents.
The Adjourned Debate, up to the period at which Ile
to press, had not commenced.

THE FUNDS.-(THIS DAY.)
CITY. TWELVE 0' CLOG'

The following was posted at the North and South
Coffee-house :

Extract of a letter from Charlestown, Jan. 8 :--" 1/let
rences between this State and the General Governruo"
regard to tariff, we trust, will be speedily adjusted." ao
The length and importance of the debates in both 20
last night entirely engross the attention of the public,
as the speculators, who look upon it as gloomy, and 00h 4
runner of important events in Ireland. It Is candid, Iv
not hide the evils by which we are surrounded.
Co
tof°B6"%"(3,vil
opeCnowinsoalts,B7weihich, lseoftonofraftjerersttehredyayrecatedBed7

1 per cent.), and at present may be quoted 87 IA N.
action is attributed to some favourable information fr°"--el
and Belgium, which has not as yet transpired. ijai
Stock has improved 1 per cent., and may be quoted
82 ; Dutch Stock maintains yesterday's prices. i
The death of Mr. Waithman this morning 1.3-ed
some stir in the City. It is stated that Alderman
and Mr. Lloyd, the banker, will be candidates for the
election.
HALF-PAST
Had it not been for the arrival of an express fr°'-o'
which is said to have brought some favourable accou°
tip
Holland and Belgium, respecting the pending ne4;
with Holland, the Funds would have been consider3'
but owing to considerable purchases having been
Dutch and Belgian Stock, a re-action took place. „t
Consols,which were at the early part of the morning '.ch
for the account, have improved to 87 Is, at Wl'''.
they are at present.
In the Foreign Market, Dutch Stock has been dons
st
Belgian at
The other Foreign Securities maintain their Prifeb

THREE (YC-6‘
Consols for the Account, 86- I.
Consols
sLOSING 18311117S.D—anFiOshU.R..0'
..
'
Dittofor Account 87' Greek .............
Braziiian Bonds 521 Mexican ...•••••".
I3uenos Ayres... Peruvian ...,•••• I
Chilian Ditto.... Russian ............ *: 1
Columbian 1f424 131 Spanish ........ •"

THE MARKETs.—(THIg DA/).
CORN EXCHANGE.
re 001
, 0 The arrivals of most kinds of Grain this week 3_
except of Oats from Ireland, the supply of which :40e,„
good. The Wheat trade remains dull, and just the
as on Monday. Barley, Beans, and Pease, unalter.
Flour as last quoted.

ARRIVALS.
Wheat. Barley. Oats.
English
Irish
Foreign — ---
_—..

PRINTED AND Pt:BURNED BY MURDO YOu'' Or
Sus OFFICE, 112, STRAND, 1440#1/4 •

VVEr
4.4(1
order 4
4?q) k:)t. th
tl
turday r,4114:1
Hi en, iitxt (
Th:
N; i tilAr
• ot
„ )
hiPol,hetttstz,t,

legal and professional character. There the other
barristerS; one was a Catholic: eleven tion—was
,of whom -tour or five were Catholics. Lord A
Mastership in Chancery; and that was had been s
gentltman who talents and knowledge Mt. II(
Cut-Altar was minted, and he was a stamp duti
)8,-1 state;'ho show
.the systematic dis- Lord A
nt I emall#ftqaets.-2(Ch.etrs.) Ha corn_ present to
t there isliVTAiaetAtliolic shZriff. He Mr. RO
O
; in Ir,lanrOiOser Viin England— sic, but
aust select one out Of.a and have distil
on the list. 11, thirekr"e; .e,t•e, be should cea
Government is not' Or s'a saver with
'lion, But is it 04141' riat ts.rj
office, without trt,.l,l‘oler: a Ireland,
>etrayed and sold his caiitilry: ti entertaine
the very individuals who cohip • ere wa*
from power ? The Hon. Gentleman" erbmellt
errs are unnecessary, because Mr. ;at- • velinent
licitor for the Munsterdistrict, says there all occasio,