The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-12 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON,

versary, the gin palace,—(Hear.) He had been told that
already 2,56,),000 of people had passed through the building,
of which about 250,000 only had come from the country, the
rest being people of the metropolis and its neighbourhood.
Recollecting how small a portion of the humblest class had
been able to visit the Exhibition, he was inclined to say, on
learning that the receipts from shillings had been as much as
2,5001. a day, would it had rather been 2001. from pence.—
( Hear, hear,) He had to entreat their Lordships to give a
favourable consideration to the petition.
Lord CAMPBELL said, in his humble opinion, the Crystal
Palace was a wonderfui work, but it had fulfilled its mission,
and the public could not be accused of fickleness if they al-
lowed it to be removed. He admitted that Mr. Paxton was
an honourable man, a talented man, and an honour to his
country. The edifice he had erected was a wonderful edifice
and had been very successful. But the question after all to
deeide was, what was to be done with the Crystal Palace?
He had seen Mr. Paxton's pamphlet on the subject; but he
must say his opinion was that the Crystal Palace itself was
the most striking feature of the Exhibition. But was the
Exhibtion to be rendered perpetual ? That was the ques-
tion. He did not coincide with Mr. Paxton's views, nor did
he think it was advisable to let all the world into the Crys-
tal Palace free, and to have a grant from Government for
the necessary expenses. Some doubt had been expressed of
the stability of the materials with which the palace was
constructed. There arose, also, the question, what
was the palace to be devoted to ? Some said a
museum, but Mr. Paxton declared it was not
adapted for that purpose. Others thought it would
serve for a menagerie, but this was out of the question.
Some were in favour of its being made a receptacle for small
models (we understood) of all improvements in foreign and
other machinery. He would read from Mr. Paxton's petition
the grounds on which that gentleman conceived it would be
advisable to turn the palace into a permanent winter garden.
(The Noble Lord here read an extract from the petition in
question, in which Mr. Paxton set forth this view respecting
the future destination of the Crystal Palace.) Their Lordships
would also perceive from this petition that Mr. Paxton was
a great poet as well as a great architect. Mr. Paxton said
if the building was converted into a winter garden " multi-
tudes might come to the place in the depth of the winter,
and recline among groves, enjoying the climate of Southern
Italy, and admiring works of art and nature, regardless of
the biting winds and drenching snow."—(Laughter.) The
climate of Southern Italy was to be here enjoyed in winter,
and in the midst of snow. But how were the parties who
were to enjoy this sunny climate to get to and from the
building without experiencing "biting winds and drifting
snow ?" These, he conceived, were the dreams of an en-
thusiast, who was unable to discover the drift or the
difficulties of his own conceptions. There were other
difficulties in the way of Mr. Paxton's plan. Did he specu-
late on a gift of 100,0001. and a grant of 20,000/. a year?
No; the plan was to ba self-supporting; the expenses were
to be defrayed by money taken at the doors. There were
also other difficulties to be considered and overcome. If Mr.
Paxton's plan were carried out, it would be necessary to have
a considerable number of the police constantly watching the
Palace throughout the year; and this would be another ex-
pense and another difficulty. There would be a large per-
manent building in Hyde-park—that park hitherto so zea-
lously guarded from encroachment that, a few years ago, a
small portion was even refused for building a church upon.
He would also remind their Lordships of the inconvenience of
baying large masses drawn to this spot. He would remind
their Lordships of the inconvenience to the residents near the
palace, and the solemn compact with them that the Crystal
Palace should not be permanent. If the Crystal Palace was
to be made permanent it could only be done by Act of Parli-
ament. An Act of Parliament might render that lawful
which was not so, but it could not destroy a previous obli-
gation, nor cancel a previous compact. He said, " Let by-
gones be bygones ;" but then he protested against an injury
being repeated or perpetuated.
Earl GRANVILLE would not have addressed their Lord-
ships, had he not been entrusted with a petition to present
on the subject. Now, he was one of the worst persons pos-
sible to be entrusted with such a duty, because the fact was
the Commissioners had no discretion in the matter. They
wereibound by stringent clauses to put Hyde-park by a certain
time in the same state as they found it. The subject had,
therefore, never been discussed at the meetings of the Royal
Commissioners, and he was only accidentally aware of the
private feelings of some of its members, who were so unani-
mous in their opinion on this question. It was gratifying
to him not to have to vote on this question. He had weighed
the arguments on both sides as to the advantages and dis-
advantages to the public which would accrue by not re-
moving the palace. The advantages, according to his in-
iividual opinion, would be, that means of luxury would be
afforded to a large proportion of the inhabitants of the
metropolis. With reference to the feelings of gentlemen oc-
cupying houses near the palace, he would touch lightly on
that point. Nor would he enter upon the question of the
safety of the building. He certainly concurred with what
had been said about the great obligations they were under to
Mr. Mayne and the police force, but at the same time it
must be borne in mind the police had more than ordinary
facilities given to them for the due discharge of their duties.
With regard to Mr. Paxton it was satisfactory to hear both
the Noble and Learned Lords concur in praising him.
There was, however, one point in the Noble and
Learned Lord's (Lord Campbell) remarks to which
be could not give entire credit—namely, when the
Noble and Learned Lord attributed to Mr. Paxton
a large amount of poetical talent. He really must concede
to the Noble and Learned Lord a superiority over Mr. Paxton
in the poetic qualification, which superiority had been deve-
loped by the Noble and Learned Lord when he spoke of the
fragility of the structure of the building and the expense of
keeping it up permanently.—(Laughter.) Had the Noble
and Learned Lord watched the construction of the building
day by day he would have had no fear of its strength and
solidity.
Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble and Learned Friend
had not quite stated the case fairly with respect to the al-
leged difficulties of Mr. Paxton's own plan. The financial
difficulty, for instance, would be met by the large surplus
which would be in hand. The other difficulties as to the
servants and carriages outside the building in winter could
also be got over in toe same way as they were got over by
their Lordships in attending that House. He admitted that
tke police had done good service in keeping order were so
many thousands were congregated under one roof; but he
rather attributed the excellent order which had been pre-
served to the good demeanour of the people themselves.
The conversation then dropped.

CONVOCATION.
Lord REDESDALE rose to move for a copy of a petition
from the clergy and laity of the province of Canterbury, pre-
sented to both Houses of Convocation on the sth of February,
1851. The subject was one of great importance, and it
also was absolutely necessary the public mind should be
directed to it. In moving for this petition he had
been desirous not to do anything that might pledge their
Lordships to any particular line of action. He was only
anxious to bring the subject fairly before their Lordships, in
order to illicit what might be said for and against the propo-
sition. Four generations had elapsed, showing a period of
130 years, since convocations met to discharge active business.
During that period the people were living under the impres-
siontio wardsothf
iam: convocations were at an end. The subject was very
little thought upon, and very little feeling was excited to•
n
anßyuitmtpheerptarenst cientuseteatiteenoef
wthheichChhuarcdh
raenedentthlye pboesein-
raised rendered a convocation necessary. Things could
not remain; as they were—they could not be permitted
to continue' in their present unsatisfactory position; some-
ting must be done, otherwise matters would become more
unsettled, and danger to the Established Church would arise.
The Church appeared to be governed—in fact was governed,
by extreme parties. And this must be so, so long as Church
affairs were not properly represented. Unless convocations
were enabled to meet, he feared nothing would be done.
Unless the Church itself spoke, unauthorised persons would
speak, and speak loudly for her. Let their Lordships con-
sider the object to be gained by convocations. There was
nothing contrary to the constitution or the habits of the
people in convocations; on the contrary, they were not only
legal, but they were essentially a part of the constitution,
and they were also not contrary to the principles or the
habits of the people. There was no one thing more certain
than the Chiirch must refer and determine matters necessary
for themselves. There was no religious community debarred
from having communication with Government on their own
affairs except the Church of England. One alteration pro-
posed was the addition of a larger number of the clergy, to-
gether with'some of the proctors, and a certain number of the
representatives of the clergy. A constitution of that sort
was essentially imperfect; the difference between the two
provinces formed an unsurmountable objection. At the
same time, he repeated, that all through the country there
was hardly any person who was not sensible to the ne-
cessity as well as the propriety of some change in the
constitution of that body, in case it was called into action.
He should not then enter into details on the subject; but
he trusted that what was said would prepare people's
minds for the reception of the principle. If' the constitution,
of the convocation was to be changed, it would be ne-
cessary for that body to meet for the purpose; because
it was impossible for other bodies to change it. An objec-
tion had been raised to the meeting of convocation, that it
would result in nothing but disputes; but that objection was
too palpably false to be entertained for a moment. He be-
lieved that in all these matters the discussion would ulti-
mately be left in the hands of practical men, and that it
would therefore be conducted in a manner totally different
front the discussions of partisans for particular objects,
namely, on general grounds. Another objection was, the
difference that convocation would create between the Church
and Dissenters from her doctrines. He believed that though
no convocation had taken place during the whole time of the
revolution, yet that there was no greater difference between
that body and the Church than existed at present. In fact,
at this moment there was quite as much bitterness of feeling
on that point as at any former period of history. A further
objection was that the movement was made by the High
Church party, and that its inevitable result would be the
ascendency of what were called Romanising principles and
practices in the Church of England. Of all the objections,
however, made against convocation, he believed this to be
the most entirely unfounded. The opponents of convocation
were, as hP said, to be found only among the extreme parties
in the Church, while its supporters were to be found, on the
contrary, among moderate people. Another objection urged
was, that convocation would not be able to conclude any mat-
ter in dispute or settle points at issue. All assemblages of the
same nature were, however, open to a similar objection.
Those who urged it as an objection against convocation,
however, should remember that the Council of Trent, which
was assembled for a specific purpose, sat eighteen years, and
left the chief points under its consideration undecided.
There was, however, one thing in which the Church of Eng-
land was especially strong in respect to this objection—she
rested solely on the Word of God as her support. Again,
nobody that could be entrusted with the solution of these ques-
tions was so safe as convocation. It was guarded on every
point.etefinot
utr Netaelnoltodeahtahinnnio,nnrecsrwo.uld be discussed without the express au-
thority of the Crown; the lay element in the Church was,
therefore, fully represented ; and that guardianship would
Cpthorneevrs
the prerogativegcy.
by its awithouthN coht ,ovno
uytl
hdt
eh
affect
ncbstue
ttnhte elconvocationafittyhec oucl
Crown,
owbunel
,dd
andonnoet
eccle-
siastical questions couthldb
Inef ftahcte, ic'trceowunldemr itlhiteateeemininneonthlianwg against
the
land, and therefore no safer
e iamgaeg.nitneida. thTehdeecfiirssirmoofreeraccelnet-
in the Church since
advantage
of convocation was, no
doubt, of great ultimatee
openingmo r davta
couldnht
heart
agr et
then
the
e her,bheas
vt
have
nhbtoeeuergne itmade
aodfe tsepa-
ratedbhye from her many excellent persons. In the case of John
riatYof the present day. I •
might be made available in her service, he
preserved to her doctrines. The next great
Wesley, no man had
originally took up a strong Church line of
Churchwcineooruvt
whichaledimovement
persons
his
reenws
nodbaenersi
sefgtayha
t was one in which
conduct, and acted throughout on that basis—perfectly
sig-
cerely, he believed, even in the case of many who had sepa.
rated from the communion. It was necessary for enthusias-
tic minds in matters of religious faith to have some guid-
ance; even the most extreme Dissenters made the greatest
Popes of their favourite preachers. He believed those per-
sons to whom he had alluded were enthusiastic, and that it
was therefore necessary for them to have some guidance.
Nothing was more captivating to the mind of man, no doubt,
than to be referred to the Bible and told to form his own re-
ligion, but that was not the doctrine of the Church of Eng-
land. She held the Bible to be the sole reference in matters
of-faith, but she also held that there were certain interpre-
tations of it against which she decidedly protested. He
(Lord Redeodale) !Alma firmly in the high And holy miss