The Sun.
London, England, 1834-10-23 00:00:00

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THE LATE CALAMITOUS FIRE.

PRIVY COUNCIL.
(From Correspondents.)

We understand that the important inquiry that is now
occupying the time of the Lords of the Privy Council, and
which excites so much interest in the public mind, made
yesterday but little progress. The fact of his Majesty hav-
ing to come to .town for the purpose of holding a Council
to receive and consider the Recorder's Report, rendered it
necessary for the Lord Chancellor, Lord Melbourne, and
other cabinet Ministers and Privy Councillors to be at the
Palace.; and the meeting at what was latterly called the
"Cockpit" was consequently adjourned pro tem. before two
o'clock. The witnesses, however, were ordered to remain
in attendance, as it was supposed to be probable that the
inquiry might be resumed.' The King's Council, however,
was not concluded in sufficient time ; indeed, from the pur-
pose for which it was, as far as we have heard, exclusively
summoned, viz.—the important duty of considering the fate
of the numerous individuals under sentence of death in
Newgate—it would have been singular if it had; for it is
a well-known fact that, during the present reign, every cir-
cumstance, however trivial, that effects the case of any of
these unfortunate individuals, receives the most deliberate
attention.

The witnesses, however, were directed to remain.
It was past one o'clock before the Lords of the Counc
assembled, when the inquiry was resumed.

A man of the name of Dukes was first examined ; but
we are informed that his evidence carried the information
already obtained but little further, and in fact that it was
very unimportant.
The only other witness, so far as we could learn, who
was examined, was the guard of the Shrewsbury Regulator
coach, whom we mentioned yesterday as having been or-
dered to be summoned. This witness arrived in town at
half-past seven yesterday morning ; and on hearing that his
attendance was required, immediately repaired to Downing-
street. He was examined at considerable length by the
Lord Chancellor. We are informed that the substance of
his evidence was to the following effect :—That he passed
through Birmingham at half-past one o'clock on Friday
afternoon. The passengers on that day were, with the ex-
ception of two gentlemen, all Oxford collegians. The coach
only stops at Birmingham to change horses, which does not
occupy more than a few minutes. He heard nothing re-
specting the fire there. He could not recollect the name
of one gentleman who booked himself, as he supposes, in his
own name ; the other passenger was merely entered in the
way-bill as " a gentleman." But he was quite confident
that he could recognise his person.
The witness was ordered to retire, but to remain in
waiting, as, if the gentleman to whom he alluded should
attend, he would be able to identify him.
The Court then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow
(this day.)
In our communication of yesterday, we by mistake used
the name of Mr. Hall, instead of Mr. Cooper, his partner.
This gentleman (Mr. Cooper) was summoned to attend
the Court again to-day, but, owing to his being in the coun-
try, he did not receive the summons until the Court broke
up. Immediately on his arrival in town, he hastened to
Whitehall ; but by that time the Lords had left for St.
James's. Mr. Cooper and the guard of the coda will at-
tend the sitting of the Council to-morrow.

- - •• -
Fresh summonses were issued last night to the Privy
Councillors who had not attended this inquiry, amongst
whom was the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench.
The following is the form of the summons issued on this
occasion :

" Council-office, Oct. 22.
" Let the messenger acquaint the Lords of his Majesty's
Honourable Privy Council, that a committee is appointed to
meet in the Council Chamber, at the Cockpit, Whitehall, on
Monday, at twelve o'clock precisely, to proceed in the exami-
nation of witnesses, on the matter of the late fire of the Houses
of Lords and Commons."

The following statement may be relied upon as contain-
ing the greater portion of the evidence by James Scott, the
individual who was engaged in burning the Exchequer tal-
lies, through which the flues are supposed to have been
overheated, and the building consequently set on fire :
On the individual above-named being introduced before
the Lords of the Privy Council, the following conversation
took place :

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (addressing Scott).—What
is your name ?—Scott—My name is James Scott.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—HOW long have you been
employed about the House of Lords, and in what capacity?
Scott—l am not in general employed in the Houses of
Parliament. lam under the direction of Mr.Wyberly, the
Clerk of the Works.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—How were you employed
on the 16th of October ?—Scott—On that day and two
or three preceding days, I had been employed in burning
and destroying a great quantity of the pieces of notched
wood commonly known by the name of Exchequer tallies.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—By whose orders had you
been so employed ? Scott—l suppose the orders came
from
_the Board of Works originally ; but I received my
orders from one of the officers of the House of Lords.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—By what means did you ob-
tain the Exchequer tallies, and from whence? Scott—An
order had been sent to the Exchequer Record and Enrol-
ment-office for the delivery of the tallies in order to have
them consumed, and I obtained as many as I wanted of
them.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Can you form an idea of
the quantity destroyed or burnt in the stoves of the House
of Lords on Thursday, the day of the fire ? Scott—No; I
cannot ; I burnt a very great number.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Of ;11at description of wood
were the tallies composed, as regarded its burning ? Scott
—lt was very dry and burnt with rapidity.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—NOW, Sir, answer me this
question, and be careful how you answer it : did you at any
period of the day of Thursday, the 16th of October, per-
ceive anything unusual, or feel any extraordinary degree of
heat in the Rouse of Lords ? The witness hesitated.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Now, Sir, recollect your-
self. Witness—l do not recollect feeling anything extra-
ordinary in the heat of the house during the day.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Not at any time ? Witness
—No, nor at any time.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Are you quite sure of that
fact ? Witness—Yes.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Did it not strike you that
the burning of so large a quantity of dry wood in the stoves
at one time might be attended with danger to the building ?
Witness—l did not think there was any danger, or I should
have desisted.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—DO you recollect at any
time during the 16th of October, the day on which the fire
took place, receiving any message from Miss Wright, the
lady connected with the House of Lords, on the subject of
heat in the house, or the flues ? Scott—l do not.

The ATTORNEY-GENRAL—Are you quite sure of that ?
Scott-1 am.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—DO you know a person of
the name of Reynolds ? Scott—l do know a lad of that
name.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—DO you mean to state posi-
tively that Reynolds did not bring you any message at any
time during Thursday from Miss Wright, on the subject of
the heat in the house, and relative to the flues ? Scott—

I do. I never received any message of the kind from
Reynolds.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Up to what time did you
continue burning the tallies in the stoves of the House of
Lords ? Scott—l had left off putting on more wood about
half-past 5 o'clock, but at that time the fires were up strong.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Was there nothing remark-
able in the appearance of the flues at that time ? Witness
—I did not perceive any thing.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Nor in the house. Wit-
ness—No.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—When did you first hear of
the fire ? Witness—l had left the premises for a few mi-
nutes, and when I returned the rumour was abroad that
the House of Lords was on fire.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Were you on the spot im-
mediately after the fire broke out ? Witness—l was.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—From what you observed of
the fire, where, in your opinion, did it first break out? Wit-
ness—l cannot say.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—What prevents you from
saying? Witness—Why, it would be,,impossible to state,
for it seemed to me to burst out all over the premises at once.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL.—NOW, I have asked you
whether you recollected having received any message at any
time from Miss Wright during Thursday, the day of the
fire. Recollect yourself, and tell me whether you still give
me the same answer you did to my former question ? Wit-
ness—l still declare that I never received any message
during the day from Miss Wright.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL.---Nor from the lad Reynolds ?
Witness—No.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Nor from any other person?
Witness—No.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--That you state positively ;
Witness—l do.

The evidence of the witness was not further proceeded
in at this time, but in consequence of the statement made
by Miss Wright and other persons, flatly contradicting him,
he was subsequently sent for, and the Lord -Chancellor
aross-examined him very severely, and it was elicited that
Scott had been transported for a felony at an early period
of his life.

It being the King's intention, upon his return from
Brighton, to occupy Buckingham Palace, it is natural to
inquire what will then become of the old Palace of St.
James's, to repair which has already cost so considerable
an expense to the public ? As no other use is likely to be
made of it than that of accommodation of the favourites

and hangers-on of the court, it is proposed to appropriate
that whole range of buildings (including the Duke cf Cla-
rence's house, and the apartments of, &c. &c. &c., now in
the occupation of the Duke of Cumberland) for the purpose
of erecting a magnificent building capable of containing
both Houses of Parlianent,. Wit E—all-the offices-connected.
with either House, besides a house for the Speaker. The
saving of the expense to the , public 'would be immense.
Nothing can be more central than this site for the general
convenience of members of both Houses ; added to which,
safety is obtained by -the vicinity of-the .Horse Guards, the
guard at Buckingham Palace, and the new barracks in the
Birdcage-walk. Much of the expense of what is neces-
sary for the erection of the additional building that may
be required to complete this undertaking may be obtained
by letting, upon building leases, the whole of the site of
the' present dilapidated Senate Houses, with all the con-
tiguous offices belonging thereto.

The curiosity of the public to view the ruins of the late
Houses of Parliament still continues unabated, and the
whole of yesterday the applications for admission were as
numerous as ever. The eagerness of persons to procure
some relic of the fire is most astonishing : a piece of stone,
piece of burnt wood, fragments of burnt letters, or pieces
of paper, &c., are looked upon as the greatest curiosities,
and sought after with the utmost eagerness, and hoarded
with the greatest care and attention. On Tuesday last some
persons who had been allowed to examine the ruins, in the
most wanton manner chipped off several pieces of marble
from a valuable marble chimney-piece, which was in the
banquetting-room, uninjured from the fire, and which is va-
lued at 4001. Sir C. Sutton, the Speaker of the House of
Commons, on being informed of the circumstance, immedi-
ately gave orders for the banquetting-room to be closed
against all visiters, and also issued orders to all his do-
mestics, and persons employed about the House, to admit
no person without a written order from himself or .Mrs.
Sutton. The smoke and steam still issue from several
parts of the ruins, and during the whole of yesterday
numerous workmen were employed in clearing away
the rubbish, under the superintendence of Sir B. Ste-
venson, the Chairman of the Board of Works, who has
been unremitting in his exertions ever since the disas-
trous occurrence. Circumstances have transpired which
render it extremely doubtful whether the fire was so acci-
dental as was at first supposed ; and.jt has now been ascer-
tained that certain persons employed to burn the tallies
were not the most prOper men for such an lice. It might
be premature to say any more on this point at present; the
Privy Council are fully aware of what is alluded to, and
the most rigid investigation will take place. It is rather
singular that on Sunday morning last several reporters
were informed by a person in Westminster, who said he had
it from the very best authority, that the news of the con-
flagration of both Houses of Parliament was known at
Dudley, near Birmingham, before ten o'clock on Thursday
night (the night of the fire). They conceived it to be im-
possible ; and without in the slightest degree doubtinm the
veracity of their informant, considered that he had been
hoaxed, or that he had made some mistake in the hour,
and they refused to mention the circumstance, fearful of
committing a serious error, and the very idea was laughed
at. Such, however, from the evidence taken before the •
Privy Council, appears to be the fact, and the origin of the
fire is now the common topic of conversation in all quarters.

It was Mr. Hebbert, of Pall-mall East, whose energetic
exertions were at an early period of the fire directed suc-
cessfully for the preservation of Westminster-Hall, the
safety of which appears to reconcile every one to the vast
damage that was otherwise done by the fire. He was pre-
sent in the long gallery or passages that led to the House
of Commons soon after the fire had penetrated to the
lobby ; and being sensible of the jeopardy the Hall was
placed in by the spreading of the fire in that direction, he
called out for the door of the
.passage leading into the
Hall from Palace-yard to be broken by the firemen
(which. was nearly effected before some person from one
of the law courts unlocked it from the inside), and he as-
sisted in conveying the hose of one of the county-fire-en-
gines through the passage, and in fixing it on the out-
side of the great Hall window, where he himself remained
(with but short intervals excepted) on the lead-
at that is ouiside the window, superintending, the
playing of this engine and another belonging to the
London Fire-office for more than three hours ; awl he suc-
ceeded with the firemen, whose names have already been
made public, in preventing the fire from damaging the
Hall, although the whole of the buildings that on three
sides enclosed the small lead-flat on which these few persons
had taken their determined stand were totally destroyed ;
and it is to be remembered that the heat was so intense, that
one of the firemen's helmets was greatly shrivelled by it, as
well as partially covered by the descent upon it of molten
lead. Another of the firemen was greatly injured by the
falling upon his head of part of, the buildings ; and it is to
be earnestly hoped that the whole of the four firemen at-
tached to the two engines will be rewarded for the daring
and long-continued exertions they made to repel the flames
from the Hall. It has been stated that Lord Duneannon
made great exertions to save the hall ; and it is probable,
from the confusim of the moment, that Mr. liebbert was
mistaken for that nobleman.

flies complain of misrepresentatiots as to the supply of
water at the late, calamitous fire. They assert that the
supply was abundant, but that the fireman allowed it to run
away at an enormous waste, omitting the precaution so
oh them of laying mats over the gratings.
often urged up
They also all*,e that three or four engines would insist
upon drawing frbm one plug, thereby tasking it beyond its
power, when other sources were open and unoccupied.

In our report of the late fire at the Houses of Par-
liament, which was given in yesterday's pP.per, we
stated that " most of the ridiculous ornaments-which
Mr. Wyatt (meaning Mr. James Wyatt, the late Sur-
veyor General) raised westward of Howard's Coffee-
house, are destroyed." We 'however, have since
learnt, from authority on which we can depend, that
the devices in question were not the designs of the late
Mr. Wyatt ; but that they were the productions of Mr.
Groves, at that time the clerk of the works over these
buildings, who was so much in the habit of exercising
his own fancies in the absence of Mr. Wyatt, and of
acting upon the suggestions of certain amatturs, who
had no just pretensions to interfere, but 'who were in
the habit of interfering in such matters, that the Sur-
veyor General, shrinking from thc, responsibility of
such designs, almost entirely withdrew from the build-
ings whilst in progress.—Morning Advertiser.
FEMALE SWAY.—The influence of the feminine
character, in connexion with matters of government, has rarely
been so happily illustrated as by Mrs. Jameson, in her' Memoirs
of the Beauties of the Court of Charles 11., a work in which
perhaps are assembled the most extraordinary examples of
womanly empire, that the history of the world can furnish.
The circumstance of two young Queens occupying respectively
the thrones of Spain and Portugal, with the probability here_
after of a third sitting on that of England, naturally leads the
mind to reflect on the consequences likely to result to the
several countries thus destined to be under the direction of
female intelligence—and in this view, a reference to such a
work as Mrs. Jameson's becomes in the highest degree inte-
resting and important.
A violent dispute has for a long time existed be-
tween M. Alexandre Dumas and M. Gaillardet, respecting
the authorship of the Tour de Nesle, to settle which, the par-
ties met the day before yesterday in the Wood of Vincennes.
M. Dumas was attended by M. Maillan and M. Longpr6 as
his seconds, ani M. Gaillardet by M. Pontan and M. Souli6.
After a long dicussion as to the weapons, M. Gaillardet re-
fusing to fight except he had the choice, while M. Dumas
wished it to bm decided by an appeal to chance, the latter
waved the question, and gave the selection to M. Gaillardet,
who named pistols. The antagonists were placed at 55 paces,
with liberty to advance till at 15 paces from each other. On
arriving at theme limits, both parties fired without effect. M.
Dumas then required that the pistols should be reloaded, and
that the combat should be continued till one fell. M. Gail-
lardet was willing to accede, but the seconds would not suffer
the pistols to be again charged. M. Dumas then proposed
that the combat should go on with swords, but the seconds,
after vainly endeavouring to overcome his obstinacy on this
point, declared they would no longer remain witnesses of a
contest which must inevitably terminate in death, and left the
ground, carrying with them all the arms ; the principals were
consequently also obliged to retire.

COMBAT AT THE THEATRE SAN CARL 0.--A
letter from Naples, in the Augsburg G-azette, contains an ac-
count of a fierce combat between two Prima Donnas of the
San Carlo Theatre, in Naples. The rehearsal of Maria
Stuart was going on,—Madame Ronzi de Begnis entered the
house, took her bonnet off, and placed it in a chair. ' Madame
del Sere, second Prima Donna, entered soon after, and seeing
no chair unoccupied except that on which the bonnet lay, the
removed the bonnet and tied it to some part. of the scenery..
The bonnet fell, upon which Madame Ronzi de Beguicl, fan..
om she apostrophized with
eying it had been intentionally thrown into the dust, looked
daggers at Madame del
pdel- _a t Madame del Sere retorted
Sere, wh
the terms Quests e
int nktt o
taking the samemind
nnddain
astyeled,cwi3heegnis
thewhen larionet player, Senor Sebastiani,
ao
part, contemptuously advised her
the insolence of such a Signor Sebas-
tiani had scarcely uttered the last word when Madame del
Sere's parasol fell with such vi;Aence upon his nose, as drew
blood from it. Madame de negnis rustled to tho assistance of
her champion, pounced upon her foe, fastened on her hair,
which she unmercifully tore off, upset, and beat her black and
blue. Madame del Sere was carried away in a miserable con-.
dition, and both she and her triumphant antagonist are naw
subjected to (lotion by the injured Impresario, the former for
an absence caused by an illness originating in her own irnpru-
deuce, the latter for putting her rival hers de combat