The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-29 00:00:00

--- his silence was designed, sometimes accidental; but the
gist of all was " I shall not answer, for I do not want to
.
disappoint
ou but when all is over I will give you an an-
• y
ewer in full." If that system was to be carried out in all
departments, what was to become of the business of this
great country? On the 11th of Jau., 1855, the Earl of
Clarendon wrote an answer to that document. He said:—
" This matter has received the careful consideration of
her Majesty's Government, and they find that General
Williams must have. been in a great difficulty, and that her
Majesty's Government could not but regret the silence of
his Excellency upon the subject."
Now he (Mr. Whiteside) admitted, on the part of Lord
Clarendon, that he had fully discovered the misconduct of
• Lord Stratford de Redcliffe. He admitted that he had
been made aware of his errors, and had expressed himself
with regard to them in a manner highly creditable to him
as a private gentleman, but at the same time in a manner
which was fatal to him as an English ,t ttesman. That was
the last of the letters written by Lord Clarendon in answer
to Lord Stratford de Radcliffe; Cominissioner Williams
did not submit to this mode of being disposed of by the
ambassador, and he begged to call attention to a letter a I-
dressed by Commissioner Williams to Lord Clarendon after
Lord Clarendon had sent to him the defence of Lord
Stratford de Redcliffe. The despatch was dated Jan. 15,
1855. They found that on the 21st of Jan., 1855, Lord
Stratford de Redcliffe concocted another elaborate defence,
• which he forwarded to Lord Clarendon, in which he fell
back upon that trifling matter, as to the superscription of
Commissioner Williams, and proceeded to speak of the real
difficulties he had with the Sultan, who, having an army
in the Crimea, and an army on the Danube, could not
maintain a third. Then, he said, he had applied to the
Sultan to make Commissioner Williams a Felid, which
would place him in a proper position. It appeared that
was not done, or rather that it was done in such an absurd
manner as to be perfectly useless. The app Antineut was
granted in Sept., but it did not reach Commissioner Wil-
liams until the 26th Jan. following. Commissioner Wil-
liams earnestly represented the wants of the soldiery, and
that was communicated to the Minister of War, who, on
the 26th of Feb., wrote that "Commissioner Williams
would never be able to do any good unless he was allowed
to have more discretion in organising the army at Kars."
Then came a very clover letter from Lord Stratford de
Redcliffe, the scope and purport of which was, that
Commissioner Williams was sent out without any de-
finite object—that he was sent to Kars without
the ambassador knowing for what purpose he went there,
and then he requested to be informed how ha was to treat
him, what was the extent of his power, and to what extent
he was independent of the Commander-in-chief. The noble
lord concluded a very clever letter by giving a dedicate re-
bele° to the Earl of Clarendon, for he says—" We shall be
inconsistent with ourselves if we seek to trample down the
last remains of Turkish independence." Now that was a
downright request from the ambassador to the Foreign
Secretary to explain the relative authority of the ambas-
sador and the commander, and the extent of jurisdiction
conferred on Commissioner Williams. Where was the
answer to that communication ? Where was the answer
of her Majesty's Government to that important despatch ?
He (Mr. Whiteside) contended that the Foreign Secretary,
or the Prime Minister directing the Foreign Secretary,-had
come to some such conclusion as this —" This will be very
inconvenient—leave the question in the state in which it
now exists—it is a very pretty quarrel as it stands, and do
not let us attempt to reconcile or adjust it." On the let
of March there was that extraordinary letter froth Com-
missioner Williams to the Earl of Clarendon, in which he
. said ho wished his iefluence was sufficient to induce the
Porte to listen to his warning voice, for that such silence
as had been maintained was highly dangerous. o the public
cause. " What mild I not have done," he asserts, "in
the way of reform had oven a note from. Lord Stratford de
Redcliffe by return of the Turkish post, which hies regular
in its arrival as that between London and Constantinople.'
The house would hardly credit him when he said there was
nu answer by Lord Clarendon to those despatches. The
least the Foreign Minister could in common justice .have
said, was that he would consult upon what should be done,
and that henceforth no mistakes of the sort should-be
made ; but he made no reply, and Lord Stratford was
supplied with his defence—" I asked you to give me the
necessary information about Commissioner Williams, and
you did not so multi as take the slightest notice of ray de-
spatch." He (tlr. Whiteside) could not understand a more
. . • ridiculous aspect than the case assumed in reference to
Lord Clarendon, Lord. Stratford de Radcliffe, and Com-
missioner Williams, for Lard Clarendon left it, to the am-
bassador and the commissioner to fight it out in the best
manner they could. Then there was another trenchant
letter from Commissioner Williams, which called forth no
answer, He said :—. • •
•" It exhibits, throughout the analysis of my reports
frorn Kars, a marked disregard-to my opinions • and a
future reference to a Muchirto be appointed is the burden
_of this long story. Ise forwarding' it far your lordship's
perusal; I most, nevertheless, call .your lordship's atten-
• then to one or two salient points.".
And having stated these he says—
" Unhappily it is on record that his Excellency did not
• ,do me the honour to acknowledge my communications,
public or private, until- my despatches had reached the
number of 61." - •
Now these despatches contained the substance of the first
-part of- the question now under the consideration of the
house. Before, however, he proceeded to the second part,
he would ask the house briefly to consider the ease in its
constitutional aspect. He saw by the amendment of
-.which the hon. and learned gentleman opposite had given
notice, that he proposed-to appoint a 'select committee to
inquire into the circumstances which attended the sur-
- -render of Kars, and especially whether :Inv neglect oi'dnty
-on the part of .Lord Stratford deltedelitfe, her Majesty's
Ambassador at Constantinople, and inattention to the re-
peated letters, statements, and deem& of General Wil•
. hams, her Majesty's commissioner in that city, are among
the main causes to which that calamitotts event must. be
attributed. But let him ask, in reference to that amend-
ment, whether the • Ambassador was responsible- to the
House of Commons? Who appointed the Ambassador?
The Crown. Who exercised control over' him, anti could
call him to account? The Ministry. C rufd the House of
Commons call him to account? No ; all it could do- was,
by its voice to act upon the -Government, who had the
control over the public servants. The House of Commons
could neither dismiss nor appoint, for that would be taking
the duty of the executive. He would -beseech the house
to consider the opinion of the country upon the question.
"True," said the Foreign Secretary, " Lord Stratford de
Radcliffe is an extraordin try, intract ible, and clever meet
—he is our Ambassador at Constantinople—l ordered him
to correspond with a valuable public servant, but I did so
in vain." The Foreign Secretary says to Lord Stratford
de Redcliffe, " You hive' miscondueted yourself; but still
- I retain you at your Post." That was in 'precise accord-
ance with-the system which prevailed of late, which con-
ferred rewards upon men who had failed in their ditty,
and promoted men according to the measure of their mis-
deede. (Loud cheers from the °volition.) Same time
• • ago he (Mr. Whiteside) took upon himself the case of
Mr. Kennedy, and 'hat was the ground upon which the
,'t-ttrl right `horfoitt tbin gentlemen the mereber for the Uni-
versity of Oxford, then the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
justified hid dismissal. Ho did not say that he-was 'dis-
honest ;or dishonourable, but that he was an intractable
man, a man who rivalled the Treasury, and sometimes
Awn-- thought differently from "the Secretary of the Treasury. It
IC was the argument need by the Chancellor of the Exchequer;
.),‘ • of an Administration of which the present Prime Minister
eueto formed a part, that•that house hail no right under nny
es • cnnestancee to interfere with the dismissal of a public ser-
vant ; but ho (Mr. Whiteside) nOw asked the house the
constitutional intestine, whether the Governinentjueti flea
the conduct of Lord Stratford Redeliffe, and wheth 'r
or not it be a fact that they coesider his conduct to have.
been -dangerous to the public cause. It' it were the fact
that the army in Aaia Minor, fighting in a common cause,
was disorganised by the ambassador, what must he-the
condition of her ?Majesty's Goya-xi:neut to induce them to
retain him, or in the spirit of cliquiam to saY,.that he was
the only man who could perform the dutieS Of her MajeitY's'
-ambassador at Constantinople ? If men were to be em-
ployed because they were incotimeteuta-if when ton gene
• • ral wets committed the command of an army he disobeyed
• or an admiral when told to go ono way went another—if
these things were allowed, there would he an end to all
constitutional Government. 3ut this was not the cardi-
nal paint of the inquiry which he intended to submit to
the house. That portion of the inquiry being dispoeed of,
they came to a very interesting portion of our Parliamen-
tary history. It was impossible to understand the ques-
tion thoroughly without looking back to the disruption of
' Lord Aberdeen's Government. At that time the house
would recollect they were favoured With some personal
explanations of a very interesting, character, and in ano-
ther place a noble earl,' who possessed a thorough know-
ledge of the subject and great eloquence, recommended
her Majesty's Government to attend to the stete'of affairs
in Asia Minor.— Having vigehire- intelligence, and elo-
quemee, of course the noble earl failed. lint the fate of
-the hon. member for Aylesbury (Mr. Leya.rcl) in that house
was more fortunate, for he made a convert of the noble
lord the member for the city of London. (Hear, hear.)
. He made a speech on the state of Asia Minor, the' infor-
mation•contained in which was eminently useful. When
he spoke on that evening the-noble lord said nothing about
Asia-Minor, but he meditated upon it, and the result was
, the overthrow o! the Aberdeen Government. The noble
lord made an. important statement on that occasion. The
Duke of Newcastle, who was a member of the Mean:lig.
tration at that time, was held up by the noble lord to
judicious and friendly exposure. (Hear, and laughter.)
• Remembering that statement, he (:Mr. Whiteside) called
upon the noble hird for his vote, not on ac-rant of party,
but out of respect for his personal honour, his consistency,
his conscience,' • •and his country. (Cheers.) The
noble lord, in the statement he !Dade on the occasion ad-
verted to, said that in making arrangements for the next
campaign he was not satisfied with some of the provisions
of his colleagues. The danger of the Russian army ap-
proaching front the Asiatic side was pointed out. The
n oble lord said that that WaS a most important subject, and
had occupied hie mind very much,, but he could not find
that he received front Lord Aberdeen the consideration be
hoped for when the subject was brought under the consi-
deration of the Government. Now that proved that the
noble lord was convinced by the arguments of the hon.
. member for Aylesbury, and his consequent patriotism in-
duced him to overthrow the Aberdeen Administration,
and to bring in a band of chosen Whigs, who would carry
out the recommendations which had taken possession of
the noble lord's mind. Ile now asked the noble lord
Whether ha thought the war in Aaia had heart conducted
with proper vigour, and if he replied that it had not, he
should' ask him for his vote" on the resolution he should
that night propose. Now, he (Mr. Whiteside) pr.,pose.l
•to come to business. (Cheers, and great laughter, it bear,
• just seven o'clock, and the hon.-member having spoken
more than two hours.) The ambassador was iu good tem.
perathe Foreign Secretary was- happy, and the Ministry
was changed, Lord Nomura was in the War Depart-
ment, and General Williams was at Erzeroum, writing 'to
all the gentlemen, who received his despatches, but seldom
condescending to notice what had passed- On the sth of
March General Williams wrote a letter to Lord Clarendon.
It was a most important letter, and contained a complete
account of-the state of the war and of the army, and the
"future prospects of the campaign, and on that letter the
Government might have acted if they had been disposed
to do anything. General Williams Sys he told the
3lnchir that he thought the allies woula not leave them J
withou materiel assistance to bear the brunt of tha attack.
But he stated that his warning voice was disregarded
at
Constantinople. That letter proved that the lines were
too extensive to be held Sy the army in Asiatic Turkey,
and the necessity of a supply of the material of war, and
of some assistance from the British, French, or Turkish
forces, or the allied forces. That document must have
deserved consideration from any minister who was anxious
for a right sconductlof the war. (Hear, hear.) Ile would
now introduce several other persons, who took a part in
the business., Lord Woaehouse was called into action.
He was the under secretary to Lord Clarendon, and on the
29th of March he addressed a note to the Under Secretary
at War. Lord Clarendon certainly was prompt on that
occasion, for ho sent a despatch to the head of the War
Department, Lord Panreure, who was bound to consider
it, and pronounce a judgnient• and opinion upon the and-
ter which it contained. Lord Woclehouse transmitted a
despatch from Gen. Williams respecting the reinforcement

I required for the Turkish army at Kars. The Under-Sec- ' him that if iLtrs should fall there was no force to prevent
retary-at- War took from the 29th of March to the 12th of , the Russians from marching directly upon Constantinople,
April to answer that letter—not less than thirteen days. , and that it was probable that success on the part of the
When the answer was sent it certainly was a weighty and ! Russians would decide the Persians to take ertne against
important ono. When the fate of the three empires was Kars. A meeting was at last obtaiued, but the application
at stake, what did the Under-Secretary of War say—the j was unsuccessful. Omer Pacha, in a document drawn up
T Under-Secretary to the great War Minister who had sup- ' by him, s aid, "It appears, from incontestible information,
planted the Duke of Newcastle? Mr. Peel, writing 'to that the Ottoman army in Aeia, to the number of 10,000
Lord Wodehouse, said; "I am directed to request you men, besieged at Kars, is in a position in which it is pro-
will state to Lord Clarendon that lard Panrnure is of opi- battle, from want of food, it may be obliged to capitulate.
nion that it will be desirable to urge on the Porte the im- The commander of that army, finding his communication
portanco of paying attention to these requirements when with Erzeromn cut off, required reinforcements to be sent
the necessity for the presence of the Ottoman troops else- without delay, or that a powerful diversion shall be made
where shall cease. (Loud laughter.) If Lord Clarendon in his-favour. The object therefore of saving Kars and its
concurs that it is expedient to adopt that course, I am to garrison, which is the Ottoman army in Asia, demands the
request that you will move his lordship to send instruc- serious attention of the allies." A meeting was held, but
tions to the Ambassador at Constantinople to pay atten- nothing was done. On the Ist of August all the former
tion to it." (Rene wed laughter, and cries of " Hear.") And ideas of the War-office had changed, and Lord Clarendon
this was the mode of proceeding adopted by • mon who wrote to Lord Cowley with reference to the disposition of
talked of a vigorous prosecution of the war., (Cheers.) The the troops, which were to replace the Turks with whom
very thought that the conduct of the war serould be directed • 'lamer Pacha was to march to the-relief of Kars ; but why
by men who could write such letters at such a crisis was our French allies were written to ou the subject he was at
enough to make every man shudder. (Loud cheers.) Then a loss to understand, because they had no control over
came Lord Clarendon to the rescue to carry out the value- Gen. Vivian's contingent nor Gen. Beatson'a horse. It was
ble desied communicated by the Under-Secretary for the in the power of the War-office to send these troops where-
War Department. Writing to Lord Stratford, he sail, ever they pleased; and from the blue book he never could
" I have communicated to the Secretary of State for the ascertain where it, was they really were to be stationed,
War Department a copy of the despatch of Gen. Williams. for he no sooner found them at one point than a despatch
You will perceive that the Government think it desirable announced that they were to take up another. Lord
that your Excellency should urge upon the Porte the im- Clerendou, in his despatch to Lord Cowley, stated that
portance of paying attention to the requirements men- be had transmitted to him a despatch received from Lard
tionod by Gen. Williams, whenever the necessity for the Stratford respecting Omer Paella's suggestion for the re.
presence of Omer Pacha'a troops elsewhere shall cease." lief of the Turkish army in Asia, and how the troops
(Loud laughter.) Let it be recollected that the question at should be employed by him under his command. He pro-
issue atthat time was the very existence of the Turkish posed that 20,000 Turks should be withdrawn from Eupa-
empire. On the 26th of April Count Pisani wrote that it eerie and 5,000 from Bulgaria. Her Majesty's Government
was impossible at present to spare any of the troops in were favourable to the proposition, and hr pal the Wn-
actual service in the Crimea. These statements, having peror of the French would have no objection to it. Count
been concocted with great labour, were delivered 'to the Walewski saes objections in it, but nevertheless submitted
Seraskier and the Effendi, who said they knew all about it to the Emperor. On the 3.1 of August, 15t5, Lard Ola-
the matter as well as anybody, for their own commander tendon appeared to leave discovered what was well known
had told them the same thing. (Lout laughter.) Lord on the sth of March previous, for he wrote that ho con-
Panmure went on indulging in his official slutaber until eidered the relief of Turkish troops in Asia of such vital
he awoke to mischievous activity in the Jory follow- importance that he could not abstain from laying before
ing. (Hear, hear, hear.) Were honourable members, the Emperor the various arguments by which the plan
under such circumstances, going to vote that there was propounded was to be carried out, ,or Kars must be de-
foresight and energy in the War Department? He could faated or surrender m a few weeks, 13,000 Turks made
not believe that they would do any such thing. It was of prisoaers, and the position of Russia much strengthened in
little or no consequence what became of a ministry, but it Asia. Erzeroum would then share a similar fate. whilst
was of the last consequence that the character of the coun- the neighbouring country, being in the hands of Russia.
try should he defended. (Cheers.) If a body of Englishmen she would soon have advanced too far to drive her out of
were of opinion that such documents as those to which he Asia. Should the allies fail to take Sebastopol before the
had referred acquitted a minister of all responsibility, it Russians took Kars, it would have a stran.e effect on
would be useless to talk of a constitution. Let there be a Turkey. and be a disaster difficult to be overcome. If
Government at least intelligible and consistent, exercising Omer Pacha proceeded to Redoubt Kea with sufficient
some kind of judgment, The first thing done by Lord Pan- force, no doubt the Russians would be driven back,
inure on obtainiee office deserved mention. Gee. Chesney end be forced to retire. Omer Pacha would then leo doing
sent to the War- ,ffice in the time of the Duke of Newcastle an eseeuti d service, and which nu other man could do,
a plan for conducting the war in Asia Motor. That plan whilst his roesence in the Crimea was comparatively of no
remained in the office for some time. It was pointed out value. (Hear, hear.) No doubt one portion of the de-
that a force landed at Batoeta, or thereab tett, an I marched fence of the borne Government for their conduct would be
straight to Tiflis, would not only save A-ia Minor, but that Omer Pacha could not be spared fr mi the Crimea,
uproot the Russian power there. Gan. Chesaewnever hid but he begged the house to remember that they had in
the honour 'of epeaking to the Duke of Newcastle; but he that despatch the opinion of Lord Clarendon to the con-
was appointed to the command of the Foreign Legion in trary. (Heer.) He was at a loss to know why France
January, and the Secretary to the Duke of Newcastle ad- should have been called on to put her veto aye or nay on
dressed a letter to him, requesting him to come to London the Sultan's withdrawing any of his officers from one
and to accept the command. Gan. Chesney dal not know point to place them at another where their services were
what the future policy of the Duke of Newcastle would required and would be of infinite advantage. Surely,
be, but he took the cein one I and acted in that. capanity that was not the way to preserve the independence and in-
for a fortnight. Notv, in the length and breadth of the tegrity of the Turkish Empire—(hear, hear)--but rather
British empire there was not a scientific officer more corn- to put an end to it. (Hear, hear.) Lord Clarendon went
patent to give advice in reference to the country to which en to say that it was very doubtful whether, if Turkey
the troops were intended to be sent than Gen. Chesney, felt disposed to have Omer Pacha sent to Asia, auy just
and no appointment was ever more honour:ablest° a British objection could be raised to it, the allies having no right
minister. No sooner was Gen.Chesney fairly in office than , to do so ; and even if they had, he doubted ;bother it
he received a note from the private secretary of Lord Pan- ' would bo wise in them to do so. (Hear.) Every portion
inure, telling him that he could not carry out the views of of that despatch was true, except that it should Lave been
his predecessor on that point, and dismissing the general dated the March previous to August, 1855. To that letter
offieer as if he had been a mere footman. There could not of Lord Clarendon a reply was received from the Emperor
have been a more competent man to carry on the war in of the French, and Lord Panmure wrote, August 4, that
Asia Minor, and he believed it was the fixed intention of the French Emperor had no objection to the proposed ex-
, Lord Panmnre, from first to last, not to assist in any way 'partition of Osier Pacha, provided the Turkish contingent
the prosecution of the war in thatcountry. What followed before Sebastopol was not diminished. (Hear, hear.) No
was not of much consequence until Jely, But there was a doubt the house supposed that the matter by that time
letterin June from Lord Clarendon, in which he informed was settled, that orders were given accordingly, and that
Lora Stratford of the necessity of sending out3oo artillery- the business proceeded, but such was not the case. An ex-
men. On the 13th May a letter was written, which was of traordinary discussion was got up with the aid of the °tee-
the last importance. That was a letter from Gen. Williams trio telegraph 'relative to whether Omer Pacha should tile's
to Lord Clarendon, pointing out the continued neglect at troops from B aaaltiva or Eupatorie, which occupied
Consteniinople, the destitute state of the troops, stating another month. (Hear.) It was but just, however, to
that the latest news represented the Russians as preparing remark that from the time the qnerrel, as it was stated,
for the campaign, and sending plans and sketches of the for- had terminated haween Lord Stratford and General Wit:
tiacations. o,a the 20th April Col. Leake had pointed out limns, the former had acted, in his (Mr. Whiteside's) oln-
the contlitieni of the fortress, stating that it wart incumbent nion, with zeta fidelity, and 'activity, ana in the know-
to teke every precaution against defeat ; and that, with a ledge that he was always in the right, andthe home Govern-
-B.o.lseent• force and a gco a supply of ammunition, Kars meet always in the wrong—(cheers)—he always coutrived
would be able to resist any ettack. The fair meaning of to put Lord Clarendon in the wrong, and no doubt he had
that communication was, that with -plenty of fool and re ison for it—and he (NI:. Whitesidti) appealed to the house
amrnrtnition, Kers could. never be taken; (Hear, hear.) whether it wash creditable thing for the Government to
Or the 9th of July Lord. Clarendon received a long de- attempt to wriggle out of a difficulty and attribute to Lord
spatech from Loid Stratford, informing him that the Porte . Stratfoed's crooluct the loss of Keno (Cheers) Ho hope •!
was thoroeghly alarmed, and desirous of discovering how when next the country went to war the electric wires would
they could relieve the army in Kars e but he inquired how be cote fur their ceutinnal use on this occasion had been
ore the troops to be found, and how are they to be pro• fraught eith great mischief. The hon. and learned gen-
Yidecl ? Now it was plain that, before the receipt of that tlemart then, referred to the deepatches and telegraphic
despatch, the Government were in possession of the opinion messages that pulsed between Lord Clarendon, Lord Strat-
of General Williams, and knew that the army was deficient ford, rand Lord Cowley, relative to Omer Pache's removing
in necessaries and ammunition, and that if they had proper the Turkish troops from the Crimea, with which to assist
supplies they would hold Kars to the last. The despatch the garrison of Kars, and on the 28th of August Lord ele-
ct& the 9th of June was receive,' by Lord Clarendon on tire rention wrote that he was of opinion the Turkish troops
11th of *fray. General Williams in his despetch bed said might be taken from Ralaklava,'and a telegraph was de-
"On the , day I wrote to you I received from General spatcheil from France, stating that the Emperor hail no
[Leslie a confirmation of the intelligence that Kais was objection to its leaving provided the Commander-in-Chief
about to be attacked. I also received -a letter from the bed no' objection to it, and then Omer Pacha had to
Muchir recommending the abandonment of Kars. The contend' with ;them. A long correspondence ensued
garrison continues in good spirits, and promises to do its on that, and after Peale time had elepsed Omer Pacha was
duty." Let the house look at the conduct of that gallant under the impression that all difficulties had been removed,
officer, who at the approach of .difficulty and danger was end that he might proceed to Asia; bat it :appeared that
endeavouring to inspire hope in every man around him, on the 7th September, Lord Clarendon having groped
and :stating that they wore prepared to do their duty to 'among some old papers, found something that had been
the last. In describing the reeotnmendation of the Go- written by General Simpson anterior to that date, wrote
vernor of Erzeroum as to the abandonment of Kars, Gene- to Lord Stratford stating there was an inconsistency ita his
ral Williams mildly called it a false step. Ho might have despatch of the 29th ult. with what had lately come to the
gone much further, and used a far stronger expression, knowledge of the Government relative to Omer Pach'e's
(Hear, he r.) What did that de:patch prove in fair argil- pies for taking troops 'from before Sebastopol for Asia,
event? That the false advice given to the officer in coin- replacing there with troops from Eupatoria, and the in-
eland of thegarrison at Kane wag to fall hack on Erzermun formation to which Lord Clarendon referred was that sup-
an 1 Man lon that place iu Asia Minor, which would sub- plied by General Simpsen that Omer Pacha bad stated that
jest Asia Minor to the control of Russia, and render her the Turkish troops would not be fit to take up a position
triumphant in peace. (Hear, hear.) That letter having before Sebastopol beforenext epting, aria the Government
been written, on the 11th of July Lord Clarendon receives had therefore determined that General Vivian's contingent
! a useful and instructive despatch from Lord Stratford, in- should not join the army before Sebastopol. (dear, bear.)
forming him that at a meeting which had been held, at I This rowers of Omer Pacha was made in the July previous,
which certain persons were present, it was clear to all that I it a time' when the Critical state of the army in Aaia was
the Turkish army required an effort to be male for its re- unknown, and under the impression that the officers and
lief with all erosible •teepatch, and he proceeded to show :soldiers of the contingent would not ho sufficiently well
how en ateriale might be got for the formation of an army. acquainted and understend each other before then. (Hear,
and to set out all the inforrnatien which had been ob- freer.) It was of the utnioat, importance that Omer Pacha
talus I, and entering in o particuiare respecting the should get to Redout Keleh before the rainy season
Contingent under General Vivian. -Lori Stratford sent commenced, in the latter end of August or the be-
e second deep etch to Lord • Clarendon, which was re- ginning of September, when ho would have been able
eived rot the 13th July. The mode then proposed to to effect his purpose and force a passage across the country,
relieve Kars was to sent an expedition to Kntaia• Lord hut he was prevented doing so by the delays of the Govern.
Clarendon stated that the plan hal been considered by the merit. (Harare) every proposit 01 that was suggested far
Government, and that it was objectionable to throw au effecting the relief of Kars was neglected; and the objection
army on a coast which was not known, and unprovitted of our French allies was put forth, but which amounted in
with the means of transport. Now it was quite clear that reality to nothing, (Hear.) The hon. and learned gen-
Lord. Clarenoon could not haVe read the papers, for there tleonau next referred to the difficulty and privation the
were at the[ time officers attached to the army who cola garrison of Kers had to submit to from the want of provi
have given all the information that was required. Having .tions. In September, lita, there had been an abundant
objected to the plan, Lord Cleaeteloa said, " The Govern- harvesteand supplies could easily have been obtained, but
ment are of opinion that the wiser court() would be to send rinfOrturodely there was a scarcity of money, which lasted
red f accenent ,t t the rear of the Turkish array instead of for 15 months. General Williams, seeing the privations
the reer of the Russian army—that an expedition- might the' garrison would have to submit to, wrote from eight to
go to Trebizond—that If the army of Kars could not main- twelve despatches on the subject,. imploring the Govern-
, tlin its p-,Sition agai,A3t the Rus,ittn 4. it should fall back merit to lose no time in collecting provisions, and that there
upon Erzeroton, and that the whole Turkish force should ,vie any amount of bullock waggons to he obtained by
he couceutrated there ; and he concluded byatatiog that barest payment for' that Purpose. 225,0301. in specie and
he conearred in au opinion which hid been expressed by paper money was all the Turks sent out to Kars; and, find-
. Gen. Vivian, that an army thrown on the coast with Out tag how things were likely to turn out, General Williams
transports and supplies was doomed to destruction." No* wrote to Lord Stratford, asking to he commissioned to
that was not exactly the opinion of Gen. Vivian. What- provision Kars, beingesatistierl that if England guaranteed
ever view might be attached to the opinions of the noble to pay, there would he no difficulty in obtaining what the
lord on matters of policy, they were not of much value OD garrison required. Such power's were never forwarded to
-points of strategy, and there was no authority to justify him ; but General Williams, to a certain extent, assumed
, the opinion of the notelteloot at the heart of the War De thostepowers. Mules and mule waggons came into the
pertment. On ode salts were the opinion of Omer Paella, city in great numbers, and then charges for hire and the
Gen. Guyon, the Seraskier, Cof Synionde, the whole of price of provisiOns for a time, conealer ably increased, but
the French embassy, and the whole of the English embassy, eteneral Willienes was not in a condition to continue it.
and on the other side the opinion of• Lord Pant-pure. ilr. Sena with in his recent work had confirmed this, and
(fleer.) The words " fall back upon .E'rzeroutn," in the had tutted that, had General Williams been invested with
despatch of the 1 ;th July, were remarkable. Oa the 11th plenary powers to have provisioned Kers, that the city
there had been a letter from Gen. Williams charging the would !save been saved. (Ceeers.) The house would un-
Gavernor of Kars almost with treachery, for surmising lerstand by that that the fall of Kars was to a certain ex-
that it would be necessary to abandon Kers. That better tent a question of money. Hod the Minister come down
-was in the hands of Lard Clarendon, and in the possession to that house and asked for 100.0.0 g. for the protection of
oftthe Government. and he consider° lit the Most cowardly Tarkey in Asia, anal have saved the key of Asia Minor
and contemptible doctrine ever recorded in a despatch to from. falling into the hands of the enemy, would it not have
send to such a man as Gen. Williame,e. suggestion to aban- been granted —(llol.o—and a ministry who undertook to
don Kars, and fall back on Erzeroum, and settle down at eanduct a war coal not escape from serious responsibility
Trabizond. When that one itch resched Gen. Williams if they increased it by saying they (lid not choose to ask the
there could leovery little doubt' of the way in which he
.house for money with which to effectually conduct that
treated it. Most likely he burnt it at once, sayieg. " Let War ; but if they asked for it and the house refused it, that
it not Le suppmed that any such advice was ever given to was another ease. (Hear.) Ha contended that this Govern-
me—(cheers) —notwithstanding tire opinion' of Lord all- went never intended to grant assistance to Kars, and he
rendon I'll fight against the Russians to the last. It is ma groutoled that opinion en a statement made by Lord Pan-
-1 tae maintain the key of the position in Asia Minor— Enure in the House of Lords, after the lobate on the
1 if I lose it I lose all, and you will Mot conclude a glorious loan, who said, in reference to the affairs of Asia,
war but an ignominious peace." The despatch sent out to Turkisht Turkey in that quarter was able to maintain herself
General Will ought to have been catiched in these ?against her enemy a' which he (Mr. Whiteside) contended
terms—" I have received your letter—l appland year a was the grossest deception that had ever been practised
spirit—maintain your ground to the lasta-and if England on the people of this country. (Hear, bear.) The hon.
has the power you shall have assistance, before the siege and learned gentlemen then read other portions of the
can bo raised." (Cheers.) The next plan proposed despatches relating to this part of the question, and said
was to send out some a letechtnente of 25,000 men. Every he felt convinced that the capture of Kers had been made
military men who had written on the subject had written great use of by Russia at the Conference, and he had no
consistently, contendine that some effort should haveheen doubt that that had been used as a check against their
male for the relief of Kerala, aiming at Knot is by way of gettiog much of faessarabia. (Hear, hear.) They, how-
writing Lord Pamlico-ft pronounced against the plan, and, ever, found thet K ,re was lost —the garrison starved out
writing to General Vivian, said that it would be Open to —and then Lor I Cl reunion knighted B igadier-Generel
failure to follow out such echemes as had been proposed fir William - (I tughte - and wrof e a letter to Lord Stratford,
the relief of General Williems. General Beatson who expressing himsert sir indignant terms against the Gover-
had the command of the Bashi-Bazouks, stated on the 12th oor of Erzeronm, who he said, should have
be to the
September. "We could have conveyed any amount of pro- waist
ace
of Kars. and ordering that he should be brought
visiting had the duty devolved onus ; but the Aueleissatler to trial. (Hear, hear.) What right had Lord Clareudon
and Minister at-War accepted the accounts current. My ee useauch language to an indepenlent pow r, and the
men were declared insufficient to stand before the enem Governmeut to sanction it ? (Hear, hear.) Lord Strat-
Had the Turkish Contingent and the Bashi. Bazonke been ford replied to that Ile,patch that he would state to the
marched as recotnmended, the expulsion of the enemy Porte the purport of his lord
hi
despatch ; and added,
would have been comparatively easy. Now the war in that Generals tlausfield and Brian[ had informed him
redid will assume a formalable aspect" '( Hear.) The sus- that the Governor (tf Erzeroum was one of the bravest
platen was thr.t Kars wee viel 'ea as a make-weight againsth men that could be found. Had General Simpson been in
Sebastopol. (Hear.) With respect to the Beshitßaaomes, Erzerotim, wonta lie have gone to the relief of Rare ?
it was well known that they had completely router! the (Hear.) No, He was sure ho would nob; and the Govern-
Cossecks, rand General Beatson was a much likelier judge meat, hotead of bringing him to trial, would have pre-
Dof their value than the noble lord at the head of the War seated bine with three meanie. (Laughter.) It was one of
Deaartment, who had never seen them. (Hear.) Tire nobhe the most insolent documents he had ever road, to dare to
ee at length knew that the state of things in Eastern threaten to bring a Turkish officer to trial because he and
Asia was desperate, and then said it was too late to regret his Government had sultans:l the garrison of Kars to fell
the policy which had left a gallant officer and his friends into the hands of the enemy. (Hear hear.) After the
to the straits in which 'they wore Placed- Rut all that fall of Fars, tafe Porto wrote a letter to the noble and
might have been prevented by a
,little prudence. It op- brave defeaders of the garrison, wherein he referred to
peered that, not understanding the character of the Wier the signal v:ctoriee they had geined by the grace of God,
' Department, General Mansfield and ether officers made and that their heroic deals would fill a bright page in his-
saerTgements for an expedition, and that the men were tory, and deem-Read their conduct :ti being deserving of
e the order
marching, and were only waiting. for an order,
but order neeatived the proposition entirely. (Hear.) universal praise, adding that the sufferings which the Itn-
He hail hitherto been dealing with whet had occurred at Aerial forces had undergone in Kars heal disturbed his re-
Constantinople. He would now proceed to consider what peso, and all those connected with the affairs of the coun-
had occurred in the Crimea. When the Sultan found he was trot likely to get anything done b li. allies, he wrote try, and that they all bad never ceased to pray for their
to that famous soldier who had 60,0007 men doing nrthieg success. (Hear, hear.) The letter eves forwarded by Lord
Stratford to Lord Clarendon, to which the latter replied
in the Crimea. Outer Pacha. • that her alajesty'e Government concurred with his Excel-
received re copy of the de- lency in Opinion with him with regard to the letter the
an interview with the cononandere. It worth whilen
spatch of Gen. Williams, and on the llth June requested Sultan had Addressed to the garrison of Kure, and waling
to compare the reasoning of a Turk with the that they had at least the satisfaction of knowing that
of the head of the English War Department
ts of Turkish statesmen wia.hDepartment,
antethe
tnlg the events and suffering connected with the garrison of
Kars, had disturbed the sleep of the Sultan and his Minis-
argumen
country. Omer Pasha I hasten to inform to '
those of this tars, and who, in default of ether moans had never ceased
you that I have received from my Government for safety. (LI he ara 'Was that irmarl?
pray their ear,
a Was it sarcasm ? He would not stop to ask if it was jut
despatch informing me that the whole of Turkey tire. Had the noble lord over heard of a cot try from
in
in Asia up to the gates of Constantinople is un-
•
which the youth and manhood of the land went forth in
defended. Tire greater part of My army are Asiatic, whose ' high spirit-to fight for that country's honour in a distant
wives, families, and properties are exposed to the ravages I land, and who were abandoned by their Government mend
of the Russian army, and as my army is inactive, without allowed to perish oy starvation, by coal, and every combi-
'
any prospect of employment, I consider it my duty to re- nation of human wretchedness, and had the miserable fate
new the proposal which I made before tor a conference." of b.
Bat they did not like to meet Omer Pacha, for he was a
use—
is countrymen never disturbed the slumber or the re.
Pose of the noble lord ? (Hear, hear, and cheers) Though
man of energy and vigour, and went straight to the mark. . he had
tretnassed at great length upon the patience of the
Col. Symonds, an Englishman, an artillery officer, attached 1
(cheers and "no, eto )—there was ono other fact
to the army of Omer Pacha, said that Omer Pacha had re- to ht• , ,
1 o Ica he wished to call attention, and the hon. and
ceived a communication from Constantinople, informing !

gallant member for Westminster would testily that be had
waited upon the n.rlde lord abent getting soldiers :or Kane
anal though he could gat any solders for the weer in general,
ho could get no assurance of measures being token to relieve
the sinking garrison of Kars. With regard to Persia, the
hoar. member for Aylesbury had asked for aid in Per-
sia from the noble lord, but what was the answer ?
" Why did he interfere about Kars ?" Tire papers, too,
were there; showing that the Persian Ambassador was re-
ceived at St. Petersburg, and loaded with presents, with
a view to future designs against that Herat :about which
Sir John Cam Hobhouse spoke so strongly. The noble
lord hail spoken a good deal about the fallen nationalities,
but when any proposition was made for the benefit of Eng-
land or Turkey, what was done ? Nothing. (Hear, hoar.)
The great question of the conduct of the war was before
the house. The first point touched the conduct of an am-
bassador, and the Government attempted to ride off by
saying that it was owing to the neglect of a public servant
—a transparent device that could deceive no one. (Hear,
hear.) Was the house satisfied with the conduct of the
war? There were not two merchants amongst them who
after being a quarter of an hour in the Cabinet would not
have made better provision for Kars than they hail dope.
The public press said, " What was the use of referring to
the past ?" True, they could not redeem the past ; but
they might take precaution against the future. Peace,
with its blessings might disappear; war, with its horrors,
might break forth again ; nay, a more terrible war might
yet be lurking under a hollow peace. It was for them now
to take good precautions. It was a maxim of the ancients
never to pardon a second blander in the conduct of a war,
a profound maxim that it would be well for the house to
adopt. He would ask them could they affirm that reso-
lution. He asked the question fearlessly, not appealing
to one party I.llole than to the other, because he believed
that all were resolve I to maintain the honour of their
country. Were they satisfied with the war? Should
it go forth to the world that Engeand could do no more
than subscribe four me r and a doctor for the bloody strife
in Turkey, and leave the army there to perish upon the
smallest atom of sustenance? Would the house consent
before Europe to acknowledge its obligations to the Turk-
ish army ? He had placed that first in the resolution, be-
cause he thought it deserved best that position. They gave
aid to the English, they endured suffering in every form,
they followed the gallant Williams exclaiming, •` This is a
paths such as we never followed bsfore. ' Once only had
they broken out in murmurs. It is re ;oriel that they
dashed their muskets to the ground, and cursed the coun-
try that they believed had betrayed them, but tidy
mis-
took and confounded the country with the Government.
He believed there was not an artisan or a mechanic i .1 this
Empire who would not have shed his blood to have saved
teem. (Loud and prolonged cheering,) Will von 'close,
I ask again ( ontinued the hon. and learned gmtlema to
make your public acenowledgments joy.o ly of your debt
of gratitude to the officers who fought at the sieeo of
Kars? I should hardly think there will be sa voice against
that. The gallant Williams speaks to the harts of all of
you, from his bed of suffering Will you say that the 'all
of Kars did not endanger the Turkish provinces ? It did,
and involved larger interests in terrible peril. Will you
hesitate t i say that there was a want of foresight on the
part of her Maj ‘sty's Ministers? Where was the grand
scheme boldly devised and ably executed? Where was the
use of that allied army fit to conquer a world, or that
mighty fleet which was to sweep the seas ? Search the
mass of jargon in that blue book, and tell me where.
(Cheers.) Will you be satisfied with hollow words for
deeds, and take badly-written despatches for brilliant ac-
tions? I rest this re ;elution upon the truth of the case.
I place it in your hands, invoking the high ascistanco of a
patriotic power, and anticipating the approving voice of
an indignant people. [The hon. and learned gentleman
took his seat after speaking for four and a half hours,
amidst immense cheering, which was prolonged for several
minutes.]
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL begged the house to de-
scend from the lofty heights to which the vivid eloquence
of the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen had carried
thorn, into the more sober region of fact and reality ; and
while going through the facts of the case, it was not neces-
sary to excite hostile feelings towards Russia by recalling
her acts of aggression. We hail 'now arrived at a peace
which he believed hail achieved all the objects aimed at.
He would therefore come at once to Kars, and for that pur-
pose it was necessary to go back to the commencement of
the war, and see the position of the Turkish army in Ar-
menia. However brilliant the successes of the Turkish
army on the Danube, in other
.places they had been conme.
pletely discomfited. The Russians beat them in August,
.1854, and it was just after that that General Williams was
chosen to proceed to the seat of war. He would not read
blue books, but simply the clespratches of General Wil-
liams, from which it appeared that there never was au
army less worthy the name of one than the Turkish
army in Asia when General Williams joined it._ The
men were without diseipline, food, or clothes. and the
officers were worse, if possible, than the men. They were
utterly incompetent in action, and when out of it the worst
set of robbers that ever disgraeedjthe name of a soldier.
The calends robbed the men of their rations of broad and
rice, and the chief man was the head of a band smug-
glers. In the medical department there were no medi •
tines, which, as Dr. Sandwith says, was fortunate, because
they did nut know bow to use them. The medical officers
sold all their stores and instruments, and pretended they
hail been seized by the Russians. Colonel Williams im-
mediately set to work to remedy that state of things. He
urged antra the commanding officer the necessity of sup-
plies. The next thing was to get rid of Zedir Pacha, who
commanded I he army at Kars, and countenanced all those
things. To do this it was necessary to get the co-operation
of th Turkish Government, and Colonel Williams was
put into communication with Lord Clarendon and -Lord
Stratford de Redeliffe. His instructions were clear and
definite, to get all the information he could, and give the
best advice he could to promote the welfare of the Turkish
army. It load been said that lie had not been referred to
Lord Raglan, but that was into reel, as the despatch from
Lord Raglan, instructing him what to do, would show.
Bat their it was said ho had no authority over the Turkish
soldiers ; but that was no fault of the Home Government.
If the instructions sent to Lord Stratford de Redcliffe were
not attended to, the Government were not to blame. Col.
Williams immediately put himself in communication with
Lord Stratford de Re.tcliffe, and urged that stores should
bo sent from Trebizond, which was impossible. The sup-
plies had to be collected in Asia Minor, and forwarded to-
wards Erzeromn and Kars. He (the Attorney-General)
did not believe up to this point that anybody would say the
Governmsnt were to blame. As far as regariled Lord
Stratford de Redcliffe's refusal to correspond with her
Majesty's commissioner, he was not there to defend that—
(hear)—but auy high-spirited man who was sensitive of
censure from a superior would co esider the despatches
of the Gth and 11th of January. 1855, sufficient to cause
much pain anal mortification. But what he would ask the
gentlemen opposite was, would they have been prepared
to say that her Majesty's Government ought to have re-
called Lord Stratford de Redeliffe ? He was the most dis-
tinguished diplomatist they could command, and certainly
no partisan of the present Government. It was Lord
Derby's Government that had over-leaped the first and
unusual step in the psi r age, and made him a Viscount as
once for his great services. No amb•ssailor of ours had
ever filled th post of ambassador with gi eater it fl tence
and success, and be thought that simple proposition was a
better way to try the question than all the eloquence of iiis
hon. and learned friend. Wreak! gentle re ; opposite lave
recalled L arc! Stratford de Re lcliffa ? But fro a the point
he had just alluded t Col. Williams was foun Ito be in
constant communications with Lord Stratford de Redeliffe,
and there was no lack of energy oe his lordship's part to
promote the objects that Col. •.V'illiaann had at heart This
part, however, the hon. gentleman opposite eel passed
over. [The hon. ant' learne t gentleman thou refe:red to
the procedings adopted to get Vie incompetent emcees re-
moved.] Such was the st ate of things in M irch. 1835. The
army said to have been at Erzerourn was found not to
number 20,000 men, the g iner als having constantly
doubled the actual number of mei so as to draw d •üble
the rations required, andipocket the difference. Colonel
Williams thee writes for reinf ecernecte. The Turkish
Government would not withdraw any men from
the Danube or Bulgaria ; but honoura ale gentlemen
said, "You ought to have sent me r," but from whence
were they to come? Every ho by admitted the import-
ance of aiding Kars, but how was it to be done? This
country. never a gre .t military Power, hail just awoke
frem a long dream of peace All the men that could lee
got were %create( at Sebastopol. The Turkish Government
said they had 15,000 men at Bat rum, of which they would
send 10,000; bat when the 15,0)0 came to be examined
the whole number was found to b 3 only 3,770. It was
after Wards proposed to send the British contingent of
20,000, Geeeral Beatson's corps of 3,000, and Ge=neral
Vivian's c n'ingent, but this was not done owing to their
being raw trocers. Omer Pacha himself, in July, declared
them unfit fur service in that country. Another maser'
was, that the British Government knew nothing of Vie
country nor of the cords, and what w rail have been sail
had 30 00J or 40,000 men been landed in a strange country,
and the exeedition had failed? How could the Govern-
ment have justified themselves? It was afterwards pro-
posed that Omer Pacha should take his own course. He
went to Constantinople, and at the council, which was
attended by Lor.l Stratford de Reilcliffe. it was suggested
that Omer Pacha should take the Turkish forces from
Eupatoria; and attempt a diversion in Ce-caFai.a. But it
Was previously necessary to obtain the coneurreeca of the
French Government, and he was sure that in doing its
duty the house would not forget what was due to our
Imperial ally. The French Government, however,.wishs d
all the force practicable to be concentrated upon Sebas-
' toesel, believing that the fate of the operations there
would decide the issue of the war. The French Govern-
, meat acctr jingly agreed to Omer Peella se iceediee to
Armenia, or Circassia, upon condition that the number
of troops before Sebastopol was not diminished. But
then another difficulty arose. Omer Pacha peremp-
torily refuel to move unless he had the troops frem
Balaklava, who had followed him through the campaign on
the Danube, instead of the Euoa.teria troops, in wheel he
had no confidence. What did the British Government do?
They tried to obtain the consent of the French Government,
and Lord Clarendon sent a telegraphic despatch to Lord
Cowley proposing that what 1 ad boon suggested by Omer
Pacha should be agreed to. It is at page 267 of the blue-
book, No. 291. Lord Cowley sent back a telegraphic nes-
sage to the effect that the Emperor had no objection to the
removal of the troops from Balaklava if they appeared fit
to the generals in command, but that he himself would not
take the responsibility. But it turned out that Generals
Pelissier and S mpson had the greatest ojection to such
removal of the troops from Balaklava. General Simpson
protested in the strongest manner even against having the
Turkish Contingent sent to the army before Sebastopol, or
sent to the Crimea at all is its actual state. What, then,
was the precise nature of the charge brought against the
Government?—what was the specific accusation ? We had
said that we objected to sending our own troops without
necessaries, hut we had no objection to sending Turkish
troops from Eupatoria. On the other hand, Omer Pacha
refused to receive them—he said that he must have his
veterans from Balaklava, or he would have none at all.
The contingent must besides, in that case, have been taken
to Balaklava from Eupatoria, a most necessary point to
defend. Meanwhile the generals said—You must not move
a man from Balaklava till the place has fallen. Was our
Government, then, •to fly in the face of our allies, and
have tuk.3n the troops from Balaklava? Suppose the Go-
vernment hail done all this—suppose they hail taken the
lreeps from Balaklava, and sent the troops at Eupatorie to
Bal iklave—and suppose any catastrophe to have occurree,
what would have been said—how would the her o ,es oppo-
site have wrung with exclamations at their folly and Mi-
ne violence. If, then, tem troops could not be sent from
Eupatoria, and the generals forbid their being sent from
Balaklava, what troops had the Government to send ? We
basal exhausted ourown resources to send men to the Crimea.
The winter had passed over with much distress, but our
army had at last become efficient; and were we to divide
it—to have sent one-half of it to Armenia, while we left
the ether half before Sebastopol? What would have been
the declamation if the Government had edepted such a
course? But then it was said that wo might have sent
supplies. Supplies from where ? What was to be got was
in Asia Minor itself. Some supplies of war might have
been sent from Cons' aninople, anti the blue-beck shoes
that the exertions of Lord Stratford do Redcliffe were in-
cessant to get supplies sent, and supplies were sent. Gen.

V7iliiarns acknowledges the receipt of ammunition, powder,
and ball, for the heavy gnus. Some artillerymen were also
sent off. Many of them never reached their destination ;
they were stoppe 1 at Erzsroum, but the British Govern-
ment were not responsible for the irregularities and peon-
Miens of the Turkish authorities. But then again the
hon. and learned gentleman said that the Government
ought to have sent money. Money ! in what form ; as a
gift or as a loan ? (Loud cheers.) If as a gift, it would be
s aid that we were recurring to the old system of subsidies.
It as a loan the ministry would net have dared to ask it.
they had asked leave to raise the Turkish Contingent.
It was said that what was wanted was efficient solaiers,
commanded by efficient officers. Now, he believed
that the Turkish soldiers were brave and efficient,
but the officers were just the reverse. When they asked
for the contingent how were they met ? Who was so lora
in his denunciation as the lion. and learned gentleman op-
posite. Then, when they asked for a loan they were told
that they hid not made out a sufficient case? They were
told that time was wanted for,considera.tion, and the right
horiegentlernal the member for the University of Cam-
bridge urged in July the postponement of theloan. Where
was the Con. and learned gentleman on that occasion he
should like to know, who to-night was denouncing the am.
bition of Russia, and actually seem I to grieve at the re-
turn of peace? Why, the hon. and learned gentleman, on
that occasion, opposed the loan. He had no doubt that
the hon. anal learned gentleman acted conscientiously when
he said that rendering pecuniary assistance to Turkey was
a false policy ; but what he did complain of was, the in-
consistency of theirturning round and denouncing the Go-
vernment for not seeding money. The Ruin and sub:4 ante
of the attack was, that the Government had not done all
to avert the fall of Kars which it might have done. Now,
he wanted to know what were the precise points by which
the Government mitile have prevented the fall of Kars
which they did not do. He ayes not oue who judged solely
by events, yet when the bon. gentleman saiiiteatthe down-
fall of Kars was the downfall of Turkey, yet the cenceetra •
tion of the troops upon Sebastopol halt proved to be the real
test of succees. What was the result? Kers fell, Sebastopol
fell also, hut the Russians have not advanced to Ca nstan ti-
noel°. The real responsibility for the fall of Kars rested,
he asserted, on Selim Pacha, who c remanded a coriseler-
able force, and most men wore agreed that if Selina Yacha
had done his duty Kars would not have fallen. Was it
fair to throw the blame on the British Government, seeing
het there was already a snffleient force in Armenia- that
they did not withdraw their troops from Sebastopol--or to
asser, that they would have been juetitied in so (lung ?
Again, it was said that Omer ['ache might have. prevented
the fall of Kars. Now, when Omer Paclia found his
troops at liberty, ho del land at Circassia, but he could get
no further. flu would have been in time to have relieved
Kars. Ile (the Attorney-Geeeral) heard some one say he
would have relieved Kars if he had been in time He denied
this. The reason w s not advanced, but he was stopped
by the same difficulti s which would, have been met with
by our own troops if they hal made the attempt. It
seemed to be the universal opinion that Omer Pacha fade I
because he went by waY of Cireassia, and if he had fol-
lowed the plan which Gem Williams advised, he m:ght
ave succeeded Was it a ground of objection to her
Majesty's Government that ()fuer Pacha'sexpeditiou faile?
But now that peace was ratified, that the substance of its
condition was known—that the herald of peace would most
probably to-morrow announce it in official language—au
attack was made on the Government for this single failure.
. Turkey was preserved anal the British Rain.) honoured.
When wore the resources of the British empire ever s gr e t
—as a proof of which there was the noble spectacle which
they all wit uessed on Wednesday. (Laughter.) Hon. gentle-
men might Laugh, but lie dial not think this au object
for ridieule or merriment.. It really showed that while
the enemy was in a state of t xhauetion Britain was
never iu a biter position for continuing the war. This
was to be attributed partly no doubt to the liber-
ality of Perlitainent but some credit was due to those
un ter whose administration of the country such results
had beau produced in so short a time. Oa looking rotted
he saw every reason for exultation in the present position
of the country. lint the lion. and learned gentleman, in
the midst of peace, found, on looking back, one little dark
spot which had pro laced no results, and had not retarded
the successful h sue of the war. The hen, gentleman
seized upon this as a party triumph. But the house and
the country were too just and too generous to take such 'a
view of the aff.ir, mar to visit it with their censure.
L and J. MA.NNEIIS said that the hon. and learned
gentleman sued for the approval of the house in forme
eeuperis, net on the partieelar case, but on the general
issue. He felt it his duty to recd the house to the real
euestion. The hon. gentleman had candidly admitted that
there was one little dark spot oc our military affairs, and
had endeavoured to diminish its importance with seniething
approaching to ridicule. Bat what was the importance of
the fall of Kars? It meant 'that the power of ~lengland
had failed before that of Russia in the East ; that Persia
had become a moral province of Russia; that the power
of Russia had been established from the Caucasus to
Hindoo Moosh. When he was asked respecting
the fall of Kars, the honourable gentleman would seem
by what he said to suppose that Kars had not fallen. He
had done justice to the Turkish Government in admit-
ting that that Government had done something to re-
lieve Kent. It was not the fault of the authorities at Con-
stentiaople, and those in Armenia had shown the most
lendable desire to put the army on an efficient footing.
But the hon. gentleman in his desire to whitewash his
Government throws the blame on Seller Pacha, when
Selim Pacha was responsible for E. zerotan, the neat im-
portant place to the Russian armies. He had bat 8,000
men ; and what with these could ho have done against
30,0e0 men admirably equipped; when, if he had failed,
the result would have been the immediate capture of
Erzerourn. If, then, there was no one else to blame, upon
whom could the blame fall but upon her Majesty's Mieis-
tors ? The hon. and learned gentleman passed over that
part of his hon. friehd's (Mr. Whiteside) speech, which re-
ferred to her Majesty's agent at Constantinople. He (Lord
S. Manners) did not think Lord Stratford implicated in
the neglect which had lost Kars If his advice had been
taken, Kars would not have been lost. He del not think
teat the catastrophe would have happenedir the hon. mein-
bet for Aylesbury had been Minister fur Foreign Affairs,
anal Lord Ellenborough, Minister at War. When the only
use made of them was to deprive Turkey of 20,00). rut n, then
he said their absorption into the English army was one of
the causes which lee to the fall of K are. Let theta lead
the language of Omer Paohe, Colonel Symonds, and
others, anal then say whether if they had remained in
Turkish pay in August last they would not have effected
this diversion, which our Government would not let them
make when in their pay ? The hen. and learned gentles
man had not correctly stated the facts with regard to the
projects' fur the relief of Kara. Had he shaken the opi-
nion expressed by all the military authorities at Cuusten-
tiuopl; in favour of the diversion proposed by the Turkish
Government in Juue ? He said, indeed, that Omer
Pacha could not have succeeded if his expedition had
bean undtreaken 'at an earlier period, for he
said that the weather had nothing to do with impeding
his march. But we were expressly told by sir. Oliphant
that the season of the year and the state of the elements
had everything to do with the matter.
The A.11:010.1EY-GENERAL did not say that the
weather was no obstacle, but that it was not the only ob-
stacle.
Lord J. MANNERS said that all other obstacles hail
been removal by the geuins of Omer Pacha. The Russian
troops had been defeated ; the Georgian and Miogrelian
levies had been dispersal ; broken bridges had been re-
placed, and nothing out the break up of the weather pre-
vented his taking Eitel+, in sight of which his army ap-
proached. In fact nothing c :ad have prevented the suc-
cess of Omer Paella hail be undertaken his expedition at
an earlier period. The fault of this Lay with our Govern-
ment. For the French Government did not at first stipu-
late that no Turkish trebles should be taken from before
Sebastopol, but simply that the total 'lumber of the troops
there should not be reduced. But then, said the hon.
and learned gentleman, what could the Government do
but yield to the objections which the French Government
raised on the 2d of' August to the departure of Omer Pacha
with the troops from before Sebastopol. But ho could
not see the' necessity of a second reference to the
French Cabinet, after they had once acceded to
the former proposal. Anal even when they did it
was clear that the despatch sent permitted the allied
generals no latitude but to decide in what pro-
portions Omer Paella's troops were to be replaced
by this contingent, and by troops from Eupatoria. Omer
?ache was, eueject to their being replaced from these
sources, to be allowed to take as many of his own troops as
he liked to Asia `Minor. • But then the end of the despatch
threw upon Gen. Simpson and Gen. Palissier the respon-
sibility of deciding wbother Oine: Pasha—the indepeuatent
general of an independent power—shoulld be allowed to
try to save the key of ono of its fairest provinces. But it
was said that after Sebastopol fell Gen. Simpson anal Gen.
Pelissier showed no iudispesition to allow Omer Pacha to
proceed to Kars. But he de iuced very different conclu-
sions from the blue-book. Nearly"three weeks after the
fall of Kars, Col. Sywoude stated that on the 18th Sept.
Gsn. Pelissier had permitted the embarkation of three bat-
talions, but that up to that time that was all the Turkish
troops before Sebastepul that he had allowed to embark.
This showed the ill effect of that addition to the telegraphic
despatch of August, which threw the respohsibility of
det dining the troops of Omer Pacha in the Crime a on the
allied geeerals before Sebastopol. They were told that the
Government woulal have been deserving of censuree had
they run counter to the opinions of the allied generals, and
hail determined to allow Omer Pacha to make his expedi-
tion. One point which should not be lost sight of had
hitherto escaped notice. pa the 13th and 14th of July
Lords Clarentin and Panniure represeente'l the fate of Kars
as nearly hopeless, and rejected the best plan fur relieving
Kies as wild and iinpracticeble. Bat on the 18th of July
Lord Clarendon wrote- a eeeetch to Gen. Williams to
coutiuue that defence, which, on the Pth of July, he had
proclaimed to be hopeless. Was this creditable to the fore
sight, or the decision, or the cleareightedness of our Beg
lien Minister ? Lid that letter produce no effect on Genera]
Williams? We hear from Mr. Sendwith that General
Williams was kept at his post, and deterred from atteMpt•
ing to cut his way througa the Russian army by the vehe-
mete enceura.genient 4 of Loral Clirendot),wh/hati,nevarthe-
less, a few days ue:ore, stated his belief twat their ease was
hopeless. Then the hon. and learned gentleman said that
the Government did all a Government could do ; that
they wrote despatches to Lord de Radcliffe and General
Williams. But of what value were these despatches ?
They sent neithei moo, money, nor materiel. And they
refused to assent to the proposals of either the Turkish
Government or Omer Pacha to find men, and to make an
attempt, And when at last they did permit an expedi-
tion, they clogged their assent with conditions that ren-
dered it valueless. They refused the Turks permiseioa ty
make their owe efforts, they sent them nothing, they gave
them no assistance; but they sent them advice by reams,
its only defect being that it was foolish, impracticable,
and inconsistent. Could any one deny that the advice
given by the Government was deservedly characterised
in this way, when they saw that the counsel they declined
to take in July they tardily adopted in September ?
This charge against the Governmeut was, that while
they did nothing, they prevented others from doing tleet
which might have had the effect of relieving
He charged against them incousistency, vacilleedou, seita
contradiction, of prop eieg plans which were imperfect
and useless, and detecting leans whiuli avers staeestrien-
like and useful. Ile charged the Government that the
noble lord at their head, who had oppos&I that wise settle-
ment of our differences wits America by the Ashburton
treaty, had so conducted our affairs in Asia Minor as to
restore the military supremacy of Russia iu Asia, and to
enable Russian diplomatists in Pa:is to regain iu Asia
what they had lost in Europe. (Hear.)
-When the noble lord resumed his seat no one rose, and
there were loud cries for a division. After a short interval,
The LORD ADVOCATE eald the honourable and learned
gentleman who had proposed the resolution had passed from
one brilliant inconsistency to another. It was not true
that the fall of Kars was due to the want of foreieht on the
part of the British Government. For if there was ono thing
clear, it was that if there was one man who hail exerted him-
self throughout from first to last in defence of Turkey, anal
in promotion of the relief of Kars, it was Lord Clarendon.
Indeed the hon. and learned gentleman himself teemed
to
feel something of this, for in the commencement of his