The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-31 00:00:00

Btmuclerk, said that it was the intention of the Government, with
re3pect to the Regent's-park, that the portion shut up on the
north side of the banks of the canal should be opened entirely
.to the public. He was not aware that it was the intention
of the Government to open any other part.

TITHES (IRELAND) BILL.
The- House then resolved itself into a Committee on the
Irish Tithe Bill, Mr. Bernal in the chair,
Mr. O'CONNELL said, the cl.;suse then before the House
(the 3d clause) involved thq entire principle of the Bill, and it
would have a mast irovi;ortant effect on the remaining clauses.
He did not tnow whether the attention of the English and
Scotch Members had been called to this fact, namely, that
this clause made the King, for the first time, the levier
of tithes in Ireland. By this clause the Crown became the
sole owner, and the duty of collecting those tithes fell on the
officers of thei Crown, and the responsibility fell upon the Crown,
that was the public.—( Hear.) He objected to this clause, be-
cause it was placing the Crown in a situation of direct and im-
mediate hostility to the people of Ireland. It was a decla-
ration of war ; the Crown getting the right vested in
it raust enforce it by armed power. Whatever might be the
opinion of the Government and the House on the subject,
he hoped it would be understood that they were to take the
sword and draw the knife, in enforcing the payment of tithes.
When 60,0001. of arrears of tithe was lately due to the Crown
Lord Anglesey declared that he would collect it to the last
farthing with the whole force of the British Crown. What
followed? That declaration raised a general spirit of resist-
ance. In the neighbourhood with which he was connected,
for instance, it rose to insurrection; the peasantry and the
troops came into collision, and several lives were lost, and what
was the final consequence ? Why, the 60,000/. was abandoned.
( Hear, hear, from some Irish Members.) When the House
was called on to incur the responsibility of paying the amount
of tithes, would it be prepared to make good the payment and
hand over till the Ist of November an Exchequer bill to each
claimant for his amount? There were two things the House
should consider—first, the amount proposed to be raised;
and secondly those from whom it was to be raised. Now,
the great source of the popular discontent' in Ireland was the
levying of tithes to the full amount, and from the poor ;
and if the Government now pursued the same course, instead
of tranquillizing the country, they would raise a civil war
there, while at the same time they would embarrass the public
funds. The Government offered an appeasing bonus to the
rich. But it was not from the rich but from the poor
hostility was to be apprehended. The plan of the Noble Lord
was to levy the full amount, and the Government said that so
pressing was the necessity for pacificating Ireland, that they
could not wait till next session. But let the House consider
their process of pacification. They proposed to levy the full
amount against which the people cried out and stood out, and
levy it on the very persons who made resistance. Surely, if
they hoped to pacify the country, they would not still work on
the same causes of disturbance, but would rather change the
amount and the persons who should be forced to pay, or at all
events postpone the measure to another time. But in place of
doing either of these things they rushed on in the old course,
which would be a revival and aggravation of former discontent
and disturbance. Was there ever such inconsistency ?—( Hear.
hear, from the Irish Members.) That might indeed be called a
blundering Irish mode of legislation.—( A laugh.) He (Mr.
O'Connell) would propose to take the burden off the poor occu-
piers and place it on the landlords, and also diminish the amount.
With that, then, he should commence. The present plan of Go-
vernment showed a foolish sort of cunning in laying traps
and holding out baits to the landlords. It was not wisdom,
for -wisdom was open and straightforward, and did not resort
to by-ways. They should rather court the people and miti-
gate their sufferings ; but in place of that they said they would
call out the King's troops to collect the present amount. But
they would fail in obtaining the co-operation of the landlords,
for very many landlords could not enter into the composition.
Some were abroad, some were minors, some were lunatics.
Besides, many of them were embarrassed , all these could
not accede to the proposed terms. Not long go nine-
tenths of the property of Connaught was mortgagrd ; he be-
lieved much of it was so at present ; and when the landlords
were embarrassed the tenantry were not to be expected
to be in the most prosperous state. He recollected Lord
Redesdale once in a Connaught case say that it was monstrous
that a tenant should delay the payment of his rent three
months ; he should be prepared with a checque to the very
day. There was not a Connaught man in Court who did not
burst into a fit of laughter in his face.—( Laughter.) In fact
the landlords who wanted the bonus most, could not, from their
embarrassments receive it. The Bill, he would affirm, could
not be carried into operation, for it afforded no relief to the
people, though the Government were fools enough to fancy
they could tame the people into submission by throwing salt
on the tails of the Irish landlords.--( Laughter.) Nothing
could be more unwise than to call out the troops, and array
them against the whole body of the people. They should
avoid exhibiting the military in contrast with the people. When
it was proposed in Rome to put on the slaves a particular dress,
the proposal was rejected, and the reason was ne servi nos nu-
merare possent. The different modes of rating parishes was
not the least objectionable part of the Bill ; in one parish
there was one mode, and in another another mode. In one
parish one man took the payment on himself, and paid sixty per
cent. ; in another he refused and was assessed to the full amount.
All these things would be known in Ireland though they might
not be fully reported in that House ; indeed he was not much
supriscd at that, for it Tro,
not one reporter in ten that under-
stood those details of law. Besides, the subject might not be
very interesting to the British public, though it was vitally
important to the British Government and the Irish people.
Ile (Mr. O'Connell) would then propose that in place of all
the tithes now claimed there should be substituted three-fifths
of the whole amounts, and that this sum should, in place of
being laid on those named in the clause, be laid on those here-
after mentioned. That would give 40 per cent. to all, and the
poor would be objects of the benefit. To pay only 12s. in the
pound would undoubtedly be a relief to the Irish slave. Oh !
would those white slaves were black !—(Laughter.) If they
were then would the House lend them its warmest sympathy—
then would the Hon. Member for Weymouth appear in his
place, large as life, crying out against the sufferings of the
Irish blacks, and proposing to grant the poor niggers
20,000,000/.—(Retiewed laughter.) England owed a large
debt to Ireland for seven centuries of oppression, and she should
now think of doing her justice. The Hon. Member then
moved his resolution to the foregoing effect.
Mr. LITTLETON repeated the reasons- he had so often
before advanced in favour of fixing the period for the esta-
blishment of a compulsory rent charged at six years. He had
no apprehension that the Government would be unable to levy
the tax. The proposition of the Hon. and Learned Member
involved too important a principle to be discussed without
formal notice, and therefore he suggested that it should be
withdrawn for the present, and on a formal notice discussed on
bringing up the Report. His own impression was unfavour-
able, but if it should appear that making the rent-charge com-
pulsory at once would be more satisfactory to the Irish land-
lords, he on the part of the Government saw no objection to
such a course. At the same time he could not pledge the
Government.
Lord CLEMENTS thought nothing could be worse than
the footing upon which the Hon. Secretary for Ireland was
ready to put the question. It was the good of the whole of
the people, and not of the landlords only, that they had to con-
sult. The question had been long before the House, and
might at once be dealt with. He also thought the Hon.
Secretary was wrong in his expectation that the Government
would be able to collect the land tax. He was decidedly fa-
vourable to charging the landlord at once.

Colonel O'GRADY took the same ;iew of the subject.
Sir E. HAYES thought the Government ought to pause
before they placed the landlord in the odious position pro-
posed. Every experiment ought first to be tried. It should
be recollected that the passive resistance of which so much
had been said was still unabated.

Mr. WALKER hoped the Government would adopt the
suggestion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, and
by so doing give peace to Ireland.
M. S. RICE considered the proposition as one of great
importance, and one, too, in furtherance of the principle of
the Bill. Indeed, in all measures since 1832, it appeared to
have been more or less the object to throw on the landlord the
payment of tithes, to the relief of the occupying tenant. The
proposition, however, went further than that, and had due
notice been given of it, he should have been ready to enter-
tain it. He thought, however, that notice ought to be given
of a matter of so much importance. He was certainly favour-
able to the principle, and he thought it ought to be finally
adopted; but-still no person ought to be left able- to say that
he bad been taken by surprise. -
Sir R. PEEL quite agreed that there could not be a sub-
ject better worthy of consideration, than that of the means by
which they could best charge the landlord in Ireland with the
pa)ment of the tithes, to the release of the occupying tenant.
At the same time he felt that the great objection to their at-
tempting to decide upon it was the extreme lateness of the pe-
riod of the session. It could not be denied that the good will
of the landlords was most essential, and that, in fact, with-
out it, it would be impossible to make the alteration a benefit.
Also for the change to be efficacious the provision must be
compulsory ; and then came the question, as to how they could
with justice, or with propriety, impose such a responsibility
on the landlord without giving him any notice. He did
not believe that there were at present a sufficient number
of Irish landlords in the metropolis, to be considered fairly
to represent the general feeling of that body. He threw
out these remarl. s merely as suggestions. but if the pro-
position were resolved upon, something must, in justice to the
landlords, be done by Government in reference to the ar-
rears. There had now been two years of intermission in
the collection of tithes in Ireland, and, however the ques-
tion might be shrunk from, the time must arrive when the
law should Be vindicated. The proposition now started with
respect to the arrears was, that two-fifths should be cancelled.
But would the persons owing one shilling be content to pay
eightpence or nine pence because by passive resistance' they
had had a portions f the debt remitted? The Honourable and
Learned Member for Dublin had asked, " What ! would they
call out the military to collect one shilling?" But he ( Sir R.
Peel) would ask, What, would they call out the military to
collect eightpence? The time must come when the Govern-
ment would have to vindicate the law, and the law must be
vindicated before there could be any just and satisfactory set-
ent of the question. He decidedly thought that it was for
the benefit of all parties concerned that the landlord should take
upon himself the payment of tithe to the release of the occu-
pying tenant, but he would also take good care to encourage
as much as possible the principle of redemption.—( Hear, hear. )
That appeared to him the just and best or only way of really
settling the question. He did not, however, think that after
the session they had had they could hope to consider and effect
a Bill in the month of August. At present the vindication of
the law ought to be the first object, and when they had taught
persons who had refused a legal payment that the law was
paramount, then They might well call upon the landlord to