The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-11 00:00:00

Pear, hear •) But the conduct of the Roman Catholics
41 this matter was a roof of the vlue which t hey
•Lbleed upon titles. Did they think they would have run the
:vie of creating all the feeling that had been recently exhi-
.?tyd by the country if they did not feel that titles conferred
....t.he assumptione of permanent value ( Hear, bear.)
,_l%is of titles were not opposed, it would be
fie' the starting point for fresh aggression. So much, then,
'vane
the first question. Now with respect to the se-
' ter was it compatible with the rights of the Crown that
„here shouldbe bishops having titles in connexion with the
iltsittli of Rome? Now he would let Dr. Wiseman answer
th t(1444441 himself. He said it was necessary, in order
sot
the hierarchy should have synodical action. He would
Jela3 4°3-tiling on that subject, as his Noble Friend (Lord
sal s °will) had already well described, when referring to
Jhed of Thurles, what was meant by synodical action.
out Dr. Wiseman said the hierarchy was necessary to carry
the canon law. Now, had the House any ides of what
pokir:ritiliswisduxelpeeasrAior?geisty,L, M. Hal
lam speak on this subject. In
of the ecclesiastical over the temporal
Hatay be considered a sort of key-note, which regulates
s.ere .
Sage au the canon law. It is expressly declared
seiss7"Jeets owe no allegiance to an excommunicated sove-
„„--r He adds these citations :-" The 1 aws of kings have
iiii-tepLe-erninence over ecclesiastical laws, but are subordi-
te chZ_Lthete• The statute law of laymen does not extend
thill,l7repeltci,licoer.,t,o ecclesiastical persons, or to their goods to
(I,o"refte_T Russell),
Sardinia, referred to by his Noble Friendeszordivrn'lsse. 11), illustrated the effect of this principle of
Again the historian says: -
'Tnatever decrees of princes are found injurious to the
We
s'eresta of the Church, are declared to be of no authority
eteeer.a
jestBulle a sovereign remains excommunicated his sub-
self ,°4l him no allegiance: and if he do not submit him-
se_ hi;ns ,t,he Church, his subjects are absolved front all fealty
And nr; „
are a,„• -s'ains the Decretal of Gregory states,-" Oaths that
ba ..-4"vautageous to the interests of the Church are not to
le_"usidered as oaths, but rather as perjuries."
'isle, let Wardthem suppose that their Sovereign had acted to-
ah .Witle as the Pope bad acted towards this country.
eta hsad created a Bishop of Civita Vecchia-of Altona ;
tries sue had gone farther, and had divided Rome into dis-
woo am nominated a bishop of one of these districts, what
„",,usve been the consequence? Why, that Rome and
aaterta.f the Courts of foreign nations, would have inun-
tempt Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) with protocols,
hp,m„„aluing of the aggression.-(Hear, hear.) He should
Y Stich aggression as had been the subject of that
collate an
discussion; for no other sect of religionists in this
%At collaterLY would dare to assume territorial titles in the manner
11.tal Renlan ,Catholic hierarchy had lately done. There
ltlaZther point in this question, one of vital importance,
he ered necey to be ,as the
IrenlitZle‘Tiestionconsid could not bez,sar well discussed withoutintroduced bringing
got..aetore the notice of the House. He would ask the
in,Cl Was there nothing within themselves that tended to
get this attack? Should they not examine if there was
. the sutnething among
themselves to invite this division on
eaTtts tef the Roman Catholic Church, which something
keit; ,assured tended to invite such attacks in an increased
by rft,lL He would intrude on the attention of the House
• tans,
a 1 'ug the words of a person of very great impor-
sass_
.., this business-not the words of a low church-
Of ur the Words of a man of bitterness-but the words
folloyPereenage of great authority, which ran to the
' sestswing effect, as spoken by Dr. Wiseman:-" It may
pacessary to state my reason for imagining
e,,4 see an approximation, not merely towards
Cassi"eual Catholic practices and doctrines, but towards
ssuissue union. . It seems to me impossible to
figfs,„the works of the Oxford divines, and especially to
theta chronologically, without discovering a daily
eirseh towards our holy church, both in doctrine and
4retinuate feeling. Our saints, our Popes, have become
• **a%) them by little and little; our rites and ceremonies,
fee, alas!Abecea and
our very rubrics, are precious in their eyes;
iestit yond many of us consider them; our monastic
becealltlfts, our charitable and educational provisions have
e More and more objects with them of earnest study.
• tiesa• • • Their admiration of our institutions and prac-
Sews, !tad their regret at having lost them, manifestly spring
tftue value which they set on everything Catholic. That
to tlntelin,gs which have been expressed in favour of a return
dhY the Anglican Church, are every day widely
ing, and deeply sinking, no one can doubt. Those
boe,:a7euts have a silent echo in hundreds of sympathising
mould s, • - . . There are many evidences (which it
hope ut hardly proper to detail) that Catholic feelings
/41,
ePeattested deeper into society than at first one would
tsferment hole parishes have received the leaven, and it
Pset--ing, and places where it might least be ex-
boar aee. to have received it in more secret and
ecri°llB ways By two ways the popula-
FatZ..t,bis country would be worked upon (through the
diet . 'lined Church) for its moral improvement-the rural
of ttincta through parochial influence, the denser population
iiiettuttwiaa or manufacturing districts through monastic
Nei °II& Experience has Low shown that the country
deed ittiOn are ready to receive, without murmuring, in-
Oaeowsith pleasure, the Catholic views propounded from
revia". and indeed, even mere, when taught through
Nith ir Parochial ins' ruction." Such are the words of
ltesds.staa, Bishop of Melipotamus. The same person after-
- as added, that if there was any one in the country ade-
gs,e to hold out a hope fur the Roman Catholic Church,
leau shauld it assume a bold front, he felt assured that
rets7 it, this kingdom would embrace that religion ere
Y months elapsed. He (Lord Ashley) could not avoid
lath,te&lg his coincidence of opinion on that point, particu-
SstWuen he was aware that no less than 1,809 ecclesi-
IvSks ,f the Established Church signed a document
eeso uenied the royal supremacy. He asked, was not
of ho•all Act as this sufficient to prove to the Court
Peat,. /II that there was a sympathy for the Church of Rome,
a6d-It'ariS when auricular confession and other doctrines
0064ternonies of that church were practised by persons not
kesiro Professing the Church of England doctrines, but by
triZ-,snLwilo were actually officiating ministers of that
i'y When such proceedings were designated as his •
the urY the Bishop ot London, he cnsidered. that it yras
theaZigurst and the duty of the House io speak up against
told these thip-ga were alowed to eontin ue here
the - are, and at in distant time, a collision heMeen
eat elesiastics and the laity, the issue of which could
kssieue doubtful to any reflecting mind.-(L ,ud. cries of
thmar. hear.") He asserted, nevertheless, that the laity loved
ter Church, its doctrine, its discipline, its parochial sys-
ph„.l that they desired to maintain its orders of bishop,
itia,'7Yter and deacon, in all their efficiency ant all their
but they would maintain it in its purity, and not
Lll64uPlion.-(Cheers.) To i•btain this end, they
tipe: ,xod's blessing. incur every hazard, try es. ery term!
end',a4(l shrink from no consequence whatever, in their
iteitt-iveurs to bring back the Church that they love still
Zaa• et: and nearer to the standard of the glorious &dor-
tios
kr",
sit -▪
u-• GRATTAN said as to the charge of divided alle-
eisnte. it had been already entirely repudiated. This aggre-
tat.ncias it was called, had been practised before. The Nobl.•
otithec°,lld not forget that this cou itry had been parcelled
There were, first, four districts and four visars-
tik;7lle, and they were subsequently increased to eight by
tatult e• power and by a letter of similar import. What
kess; "ad been offered to her Majesty? Did not her Majesty
elle that a great portion of her subjects were Catholics,
iciest; re not governed by her as far as their spiritual in-
%a' 'a were concerned? English Protestants must make up.
hrers,,nliada to live in peace with their Roman Catholic
aleea•isiu• The conduct of the Government was the more
Toe $o
after the course which they had pursued with
44, `e to the Roman Catholic bishops in the colonies.
the Z°riourable Member then proceeded to comment upon
Whe-s'eee„ of Mr. Henry Drummond on Friday night.
to t lionsurable Member had stated with regard
Cullen was totally and entirely a mistake. Dr.
Ceu-n,Was horn in his Mr. Grattan's) cunt He was
kid Meath man ; an(d he had met him both abroad
lad of „utile, and a more erroneous conception of Dr. Cullen_
55t
.up tae Court of Rome, and of the difference cunningly
tereee-°,9lsight by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Ashley)
bad n Court of Rome and the Church of Rome, he
tt'asidesr beard in his life. In opposing the measure undern
tt' gar ration he was defending the cause of his countryme
• rightsgnef--asot the Roman Catholics in particular, but the
tate. s,a-rs7v,tery honest Irishman. He called upon the Irish
"safest then, to look to themselves that night; and if her
• the tbl a Ministers acted in opposition to Irish wishes upon
the fiaufitstoue.stion-up.,n the Lord-Lieutenancy, and upon
satasseil aeries-to join him in saying, own with John
(OS,-oil and
up with the name and fame of the country .
• eeA and laughter.) Her Majesty had been spoken of
fwE t " grace the Grace of God." Yes, and she was Queen
1""e 10,,,,,ae4 or God ; but not alone by that-it was also by
"„aPs,• a; ',the people • and that was as good a title, per-
kr the grace of God.-(Oh, oh.) Of much use was
Itlic_naaoltnlcts.!,Goo,
oh.) For
when he was driven from his
L`Qty is n For his own part, he discharged his
at th (I)Maing the proposed Bill, and he had only to trust
that
dre measure would not lead to discord, or the revival o f
M. animosi,ies which he apprehended.
hir.-„,,,RIJMNIOND explained.
aisleratr'NOLLY said that the question now under the con-
ilt es ses,n uf the House had been discussed in all the coun-
Qad au'urope, and in. every one of them the saute answer
Iltratlyll
..ivea-the same determination had been come to-
tterteill'buat the power of Rome must be restricted within
iess I•l°‘is - that that power, in its unrestricted state,
em•
atleii,°kWnt with the tree government and the inde-
,kr of those respective states.
before the WOOD would much rather he had seen the Bill
fart ee ts 'louse previous to his having entered upon a:ny
•-114 b nue
_,d-jaellS But some of the principles which
italti,naisrteeesfailauyanceddmninore particularly on his own (the
i n, 'Hie of advanced,
House, seemed to him so entirely
right a„„-', with the which ought to lead them to a
.„`° r ms;c-c'usion tvhi'ws t that he felt it impossible
1-111°Ilueas1 silent. n For he 'hue ehcad heard with surprise the
aton --au's Member for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck) and the
IN h. ibleMber for Manchester ( Mr. Bright), between whom
:It than: self he bad. thought there was at least perfect accord
`soseke„',ne Point of their political creed-he had heard
1:1° tlas"s.enuen with surprise say that the opinion expressed
an, ant throughout the whole country in so plain and
he issittl'rocal a
'ad re manner-in a manner more decided than any
ttataia, °leathered since the Reform Bill- was to weigh for
nisir‘; nay more, that those who had expressed their
su should' he stigmatised with the charge of
WisheSC 'le (Mr. Wood) had always wished and still
etss. that the suffrage should bet argely extended-the
opinion`(l which must be, in a great measure, to bring public
to bear more fully upon the queation;discussed in this
oess
elms:. But if they were to be told by Hon. Members, be-
s;. ths,,theY had some particular opinions of their own, that
botg"h"t°,l! Public opinion of the country should be set at
%se._ It seemed strange that those Hon. Members at mild at
:I..!iltit tune be the advocatesof the extension of the suffrage.
e. e should. ahow that there had been no feeling of bigotry
11."_q' 3a0j1"5 Matter. There had been reat earnestness he did k,".(42 apee;PkeaBk of individual displays of bigotry or individual
the but of the resolutions which had been passed and
,s.strser'swa generally which had been expressed at the public
the Oa- - Those resolutions had in the main redounded to
C°tllltr Tour,ho good sense, and sound judgment of the
Cud tY• all the agitation which had been ex-
' Lent s.s° the Noble Lord's letter was attributing to the Noble
the ;Aggress
Power than he possessed. It was called forth by
..ggnressott--by the insult which they deemed had been
ects"esP° their Sovereign. It was called forth by what was
• suss_ r.d an attempt at the revival by Rome of claims
aet"f
~this country which had long lain • dormant; but,
fame'r(Lpg to which, it was known it would endeavour to
the
,pep antiquated opinions sooner or later upon
• aistea-P,Ples It was, therefore, that it was re-
' higotranA with earnestness. Bat earnestness was not
eiv. ....no more than indifference was liberality. It was
goe",._ NT Cardinal Wiseman and those who published
thenents in his defence to tellone thing to them whilst
Cetialre,iiweas another thing; understood by all the Roman
Charwee,raunity. They were told there was nothing but
aneer?dfotrhliasthehmadeldb;een echoed by the Hon.
main
111°4 14:a'thernieoe'linMaamene, b
r"eft.utc9miloafstellr,etr: and they added, what
_ there was _ _ e had been vicar-apostolic and
Taus; now he was only Archbishop of
axieretsed the same duties there as before.
vicar-apostolic mark teed
difference between his position as
ltbt„ 'and Bishop of Melipotamus and that as
414:410474:_' Westminster. the f
nver....he lad Ortner he had no juris-
spiritual lauence awl .§piritual
_