The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-25 00:00:00

;the Bill was recommended to the House by a Commission
;acting under the authority of his Majesty. If he and others
(had considered it as a party measure, he could assure their
Lordships that the result of a division would not have
i been such as would have given his Majesty's Ministers any
satisfaction, and of that no persons were more aware than
his Majesty's Ministers themselves.

'• The LORD CHANCELLOR—These discussions tend
very much to raise, or rather to sustain, the high character
which this House maintains out of doors.—(Vehement
cheers from the Treasury Beach.) I have never yet been
accused of showing any want of respect to this House—
I have never yet been accused of attempting to lower its
dignity. I have heard of such charges being made
against his Majesty's Ministers, but nothing can have so
great a tendency to produce that effect, as the words which
have fallen from my Noble and Learned Friend within the
last few minutes.—(Hear, hear.) Whether they will
produce that effect I cannot tell ; but sure I am they have
that tendency.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord LYNDHURST (intertupting)—l have been
strangely misunderstood, if anything I have s lid deserves
the reproof which I have just received from my Noble
and Learned Friend. Are such things as party feelings
unknown to this House ? I ask whether the Noble Lords
who come here nightly, and range themselves on the
opposite benches, do not act upon party motives ?
(Order, order.)
Lord HOLLAND—I speak to order ; and in so doing I
am compelled myself to commit a breach of order ; for I
must request your Lor,lBl,ips to let me address you sitting,
as my infirmities prevent me from addressing you standing.
Speaking, then, to the point of order, I must say that a
more disorderly, a more irregular, and a more unparlia-
mentary conversation than that which has taken place
during the last ten minutes, I have never heard since I had
the honour of a seat in this House.—(Hear.) I have heard
of party and of party motives in this House, where, if we
act as honest men by our country, we are bound to consider
the public interests only. It is irregular to allude to any
motives, and certainly most irregular to allude to party
motives in this place.—(Hear.) The Noble and Learned
Lord says that he never considered this as a party measure.
He tells us that for certain reasons he and his friends deter-
mined not to divide against the second readiug of it ; be
adds, that if they had divided against it, and had acted
together as a party, he knows what the result would have
been in that case.—(Hear.) Now, it is most irregular to
describe a measure, brought in avowedly upon public
grounds, as a party measure ; and to say bow the House
would have dealt with it had they considered it to be a
party measure or not a party measure, is to use language
which I am sure would nut have been listened to fifteen
years ago in this place.—(Hear.) A more certain mode
of disparaging the character of this House in the estima-
tion of the public cannot be found than in our describing
ourselves the Bills introduced for the public benefit as
party measures.—(Hear.) The speech of the Noble Lord,
which I rose—l beg pardon—which I speak to interrupt,
appealed to the existence of party motives in this House.
Is that parliamentary language or is it not?—(Hear.)
Is it even consistent with the question which we are now
pretending to discuss ? The question before the House at
present is, whether the registrars shall be removeable from
their office by address from the two Houses of Parlia-
ment, or whether au Act of Parliament shall be passed to
enable the judges who preside in the courts of which they
are ministerial officers to remove them, whenever they
become incompetent to discharge the duties of them from
age or other infirmity—for as yet we have had no answer
to that point.
Lord LYNDHURST agreed with the Noble Baron
who had just down, that the sooner an end was put to
this irregular conversation the better it would be for all
parties. He would only remind their Lordships, in his
own justification, how this discussion had originated. His
N.ible and Learned Friend h ,d charged him with opposing
this Bill as the political opponent of the law reforms of
the Government. His Noble and Learned Friend had
said that he opposed it on party principles ; that he denied,
and in his denial he had defended himself to the best of his
ability. He appealed to the speech which he had made
against the committal of the Bill to prove that he was
not influence', and be had then slid that he was not in
fluenced in his opposition to it by party principles, but by
general considerations of state policy and expediency,
Lord WYNFORD would only say, that from what had
just passed in the House, it must bequite clear that party had
nothing whatever to do with its discussions.—(A laugh.)
The amendment of Lord WYNFORD, for leaving out
" the registrars," was then agreed to, and the clause, as
amended, was ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The '7th, Bth, 9th, 10th, and 11th clauses were agreed
to without discussion.

On the 12th clause, which defines who are to be the prac-
titioners in the Courts of Judges in ordinary, being read,
Loft] LYNDHURST asked whether in these Courts
barristers were to be opposed by attorneys ? If so, it
would lead to great confusion, as he had seen in his own
experience at the Quarter Sessions. His Lordship, who
had never practised in the minor courts of the coun.ry,
might not be aware of this circumstance. He therefore
requested him to consider this point, and perhaps upon
consideration he would see the propriety of striking out
that part of the clause which gave to attorneys the power
of practising as advocates in these Courts.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that perhaps the
clause was liable to this objection ; but he had no doubt
that wherever barristers were opposed to attorneys, bar-
risters would soon obtain the command of the Court.
Lord LYNDHURST knew a Court in which the bar-
..ieters refused to wear their gowns and wigs, so long as
atto,-neya were allowed to p'ead there. The magistrates
the attorneys, and the consequence was, that at
x all the barristers appeared in their gowns
s. Befo,4t this clause was disposed of, he wished
ehlde(
the c
next sitti:lg
•ind wig
amount of fees payable to the officers
to know whether the
these Courts was to be regulated according to the scale
contained in the former Bill ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the fees were left to
b. settled from time to time by the judges of the courts at
Westminster.
Lord LYNDHURST—Am I to understand, then, that
Parliament is to exercise no judgment with respect to the
amount of these fees ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR—Yes.

Lord LYNDHURST objected to the power given to
the ;udges of fining attorney@ to any amount for improper
conj., ,t without the intervention of a jury.
The LORD CHANCELLOR admitted that the power
given to the
fudges was very large, but it was deemed ne-
cessary, in oi.as -r to repress improper practices on the part
,if a certain clas,' of practitioners who might resort to
These new courts, as well as to prevent parties, from a spirit
of hostility to the p r:sent measure, throwing ob-tacTes
had
and impediments in the w.'v of its execution. He had ha
himself an opportunity of kn,lwing the virulence and vio-
lence with which the first Bii.l on this subject had been
att :eked by certain individuals w::o bad gone the length
of sending circular letters to actorney2 in all parts of the
country, with the object of depriving b;:u of business at
the bar, his only crime being that he was We author of a
1 measure which, among other regulations, empowered
the judge in ordinary to suspend an attorney, guilty of
improper conduct, from practising. He had, however,
gone on unmoved by these owls, and the alteration
which appeared in the present Bill had been made, not
from any yielding on the subject, but because it was
thought that a more effectual control would be exercised
over these parties by giving the judge the power of fining,
instead of suspending.
The clause was then agreed to.
cia:..cs from i e to 18, inciusive, were agreed to, with
the exception of 15 and 16, which were postponed for

future consideration.
aboi;;Liing the jurisdiction of Courts
On the 19th clause,
of Conscience, being read,
Lord LYNDHURST and Lord WY/groan ei!.jected that
the clause would have the effect of abolishing many vaivable
courts, which were the property Of individnah,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the bill did not
abolish those courts, but on the contrary allowed them a
concurrent jurisdiction,. lie intended to propose an
amendment, saving from the operation of the clause " all
courts exercising jurisdiction derived by virtue of grants
from the Crown, from the Ducby of Cornwall, or from
the Duchy of Lancaster."
At the saggestion of Lord LYNDHURST, the words" or
by prescription, Pr by virtue of any Act of Parliament,"
were added, and the clause agreed to.
Clauses from the 20th to the th, kiciveive, were then
agreed to, with the exception of the 25th, postponed,
The House having resumed, the CH Aittmaii obtained
lcavo to sit ;again to-tnort;o c..n.".4.djourned.