The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-08 00:00:00

FEBRUARY 8, 1851.

under the consideration or the .11-icuie. The deep in-
e,t wi)ich is lelt, :di i L cc,u t yby 2,11 t:las:,es of v:e;

tilt, tut-Leto:l6 pet Lions that have ber•t

scriti!ci to this

House, praying the House to resist any encroachment
on the part of a foreign Sovereign; the addresses which
have been presented to the Crown—all make it a matter
of deep responsibility to undertake the task of bringing
such a question under the notice of the House. Sir,
that erxiety is net direinithed, but increas by the,
symptoms which appeared the other erening of the dis-
position of a great portion of the House with respect to the
motion I laid on the table of the House. One Hon.
Gentleman (the Member for Sheffield), who spoke on
the motion for the Royal Address, warned me not to
take a retrograde step on this subject—(Hear)—and
another Hon. Gentleman (the Member fur Buckingham-
shire) warned me, on the other side, not to intro-
duce anything less than a complete code
to regulate all the relations which may occur be-
tween the C,Urt of Rome and her Majesty's subjects in
the United Kingdom. Now, Sir, with respect to the
first observation, that I should not take a retrograde
step, I will say that the only retrograde step I pro-
pose to take is that natural action of a man
who finds a blow aimed at his head, and who steps back-
nerds and raises his arm and puts himself in a posture of
defence.—(Cheers.) With regard to the other obser-
vation, I will not now enter into the consideration of
why I differ from the Hon. Gentleman, but in the
course of the speech that I shall, have to make I shall
have to address throe observations to the House which
appear to me to belong to the subject, and state those
motives which induce the Government not to pursue
that course which he has suggested as the most proper.
Sir, in bringing this subject before the House I beg
the House to recollect some of the circumstances
which have occurred very recently. In the course of the
last year the nomination of an archbishop in Ireland
by the Roman See was made in an unusual manner.—
(Hear, hear.) It was generally understood, and has
never been contradicted, that those who usually
elected to the office of archbishop en the part of
the Roman Catholics of Ireland had sent three names,
but that instead of any of the learned ecclesiastics being
chosen for that (Mee, a clergyman who had been long
resident in Rome, and who was more conversant with
the habits and opinions of Rome than the state and cir-
cumstances of It eland,was appointed by the Pope to assume
the office of Archbishop in Ireland. No doubt that
ecclesiastic showed very clearly that it was not his in-
tention to follow the usual practice which bad hitherto
been pursued by Archbishop Murray and others, of put-
ting himself in communication with the Government in
relation to any matters necessary to be transacted with re-
gard to the Irish people. Presently we found theta synod
:red been called at Thueles. It was stated that at the synod
a question ens put whether or not an address be issued
to the people of Ireland, and that that motion was car-
ried by a majority of 13 to 12, the majority of one con-
sisting of that very person who had been sent
over from Rome, and who was entirely un-
acquainted with the state of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
If the proceedings of that synod had related only to
the internal discipline of the Roman Catholic
religion—if it had been flown teat its proceed-
ings only referred to matters that required alter-
ation and amendment in the Roman Catholic Church
—however unusual, and entirely without precedent
the assembling of a synod might be—for no such thing
had taken place since the time of the revolution—l should
net have telt surprise at the manner in which the synod
had acted. But a great portion of theuddtess which the
synod issued was taken up by two subjects. 'the
one was the danger of the system of education by the
€ntablishment of colleges in Ireland by her Alejeszy's Go-
vernment, in conforisaity with en Act of Parliament,
and it stated that the principles upon which
those colleges were 'established were principles which
were opposed to the inflexible nature of the Roman
Catholic religion, and it was pointed out in the address
ihat these colleges could not exist without destroying
the morals and religinn of the Roman Catholic youth.
!he oi her part of the a dress was taken up with a descrip-
tion of the state of the poorer portion of the peasantry of
Irel and, with respect to the manner. in which their
landlords had dealt with them, and no' language
was omitted that could excite their feelings against
the owners of land w.ho had enforced the process of the
law against their tt flouts. Now, Sir, lam not going
on the present octal ion to enter into a defence of the
establishment of the Queen's Colleges in Ireland, nor
to discuss the questio,a whether the Irish landlords have
acted with discretion iar humanity in asserting their legal
rights, but I wish to point out to this House the most im-
portant circumstance., that on a question of occupancy
of land, the synod, composed entirely of Roman Catholic
ecclesiastics, from which all the laity were excluded—
that Synod had thought proper, at their first meeting, to
issue an address to the Irish people on what was their
duty to, and what ought to be their conduct towards,
theirttlandlords.—(Laud cheers.) I would ask the
Honourable and Learned Member for Sheffield
whether this was en ttertaining and considering purely
spiritual concerns? --(Loud cheers.) I would ask him
whether this House tend the Government of this coun-
try can see a Catholic archbishop appointed and a synod
called together—whose first proceeding was to hold
forth to the people o IF Ireland, is opposition to an Act of
Parliament which h3d been passed for the purpose of
educating the peop'e of Ireland, for the purpose
of educating the poorer and middle classes of society,
and also exciting the, minds of the peasantry of Ireland
against their landloisla?—(Hear, hear.) Sir, this is an
instance at all events; to show that the synod did not
deal with purely spiritual matters. The interference of
clerical persons with the temporal and civil concerns of
the State has been tatempted for the first time by this
synod in Ireland, :not as a beginning only, but as
a beginning to be me intained and followed up, and to be
asserted on tuture t mcasions with more potent effect.—
(Loud cheers.) Th ere is a part of this transaction to
which I will direct the attention of the House. I re-
ceived a copy of n eis address, and on the title-page it
was signed by the Archbishop of Armagh as Primate
of Ireland. Abc nt the same time I received
a communication from the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,
a communication to the (AL ct that the matter had been
referred to those con .versant with the law, and they had
said they could not tio anything in the matter, as the
words did not appear upon any document
sent to them. I will now refer to an occurrence
which took place some time since in Sardinia,
It had been the law of that country that ecciesiastics
were not liable to civil triounals. Some time ago, the
Sardinian Parliamett at Turin altered this law,
making the ecclesias tics amenable to civil courts. One
of the Ministers who had brought in this law soon after-
wards became dam serously ill ; being questioned on
the subject by the Archbishop of Turin, he replied in a
manner which was not satisfactory, and it is known
that he died without receiving the sacraments of the
Church, in tact as o tie out of the pale of the Church.
That is an instance of spiritual power and spiritual
censure for the purdote of controlling anti directing
a Minister of the Crown and a Member of Parliament,
in his conduct mirthh ig to that Ceown and Parliament.—
(Hear, hear.) I beg the House to observe these things
because they are not altogether foreign to us; they may
not yet be introduce el to us this year, but we are, told
in that country to which I have alluded that the doctrines
of the Church of Pewee are inflexible, their maxims
unchangeable.—(tle or, hear.) They may not thick it
expedient to introd cice such practices at present into
this country, but they retain in their own hands the
power of app;yieg those measures and that spiritual
power. About the s awe time a manifestation of Romish
interference took pierce in Belgium, a Government which
had shown more fav our to the independence of the Ro-
man Catholic body than any other country in Europe,
because they had allowed the Raman Catholics
to enjoy their right ,c,f appointment to benefices, while
the civil Governmen it entirely refrained from interfering
with the nomination.; of the ecclesiastical body. The
ecclesiastics, by exp .clients of their own, had managed
to get the direction of the educational system of Belgium
into their hands; and 'when the civil Governmeet had taken
some steps to interfere with this subject a document was
circulated by the ecclesiastics bearing upon the question
at the time when a n election was anticipated for the
purpose of influench en the chambers. The chambers,
however, came to no 'decision unfavourable to the Go-
vernment, and it wets thought necessary to instruct the
Belgian Minister alt Rome to assure the Secretary
of State that no disrespect bad been intended to
the Court of Rome. Now I come to the pro-
ceeding in this cottatry. At the end of September,
a letter apostolic, se sled with the fisherman's seal, was
received in this coun try altering the ecclesiastical law of
this country, doing away with the vicars-apostolic, and
proposing,to eatablisl9 an archbishop and bishops, among
whom the country was to be divided. Sir, I shall
afterwards state the ',flew which I take of that document;
what I wish to state now is, that that change was mad
•
entirely
without the consent, and, I may say, without the
knowledge of the Government of this country.—(Great
cheering.) I had stated in this House, in answer to a
question from an Hot,. Member, that I could not approve
of any such scheme. I had been told by a private friend,
of the Roman Catholic persuasion, that such a project
was in contemplation, but I had told him
that I should never consent to such a pro-
ject being carrried mat. I heard nothing more of it,
and I concluded, per baps weakly, that the Government
of Rome being a friendly Government, would never
think it possible to create archbishops and bishops,
and of dividing this country without communicating at
least that project to this Government.—(Hear, hear.)
I could not believe that it would have so insulted
the Queen.—(Great cheering, which continued for some
minutes.) I may have been like the foolish Italian
shepherd, who said—.
" Urbem, quam diicunt Romam, Melibcee, putavi,
Stultua ego hui a nostre similem t"—
(Laughter.) I may have thought most, trustingly and
imprudently that the Court of Rome would observe such
relations, such discretion, such courtesy in her conduct
with the State of England, as all other States that are
friendly observe towtarda each other, and as Oee herself
has ohserved towards every other State in Europe.—
(Hear.) It appears that I must have been mistaken.
I have seen in a letter, or supposed letter—(Hear, hear)
—of Cardinal Wiseman, at least in a publication ascribed
to that personage, that the Earl of Minto was cognisant
of the measures which were in progress, when he was at
Rome, for the establishment of a Remish hierarchy in
England.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of Minto has given,
emphatica public and denial to that statement._(L,uei
and continued cheering from all parts of the House.)
We have heard the story, to be sure, that at the inter-
view with which he was honoured at the Court of Rome,
the Pope, pointing to a table in the room, observed,
n There is something there that regards you;" but Lord
Minto did not look at the paper, or make any observa-