The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-24 00:00:00

the Government about these matters, as long as the taxes
were paid, and the budget full. Who felt, or thought. or
took care of the people ? He spoke for all.—(Laughter.)
What was the case of the great distress now existing
Not the currency, but restricted trade and monopolies—
(Hear)—and the unequal pressure of the national obliga-
til,DB caused the distress of the people. He maintained
that the farmer had been injured by Peel's Robbery
Bill—(0h !)—yes, he would call it Peel's Robbery Bill.
Monopoly was a great curse to the country. We ought to
break up the monopoly of the timber trade—(Question)--
we ought to break up the monopoly of the sugar trade—
(Question)—and till that was done no good would be done.
Indeed he believed that the monopolists were a set of
humbugs altogether.—(Loud laughter, and then cries of
" Question.") He said the corn laws should be repealed.---
(Question, question.) He recommended them not to resist
too long. Entertaining, as be did, the strongest opinion
as to the necessity of repealing the corn tax, he should
wish to see the resolution proposed by the lion. Member
for Whitehaven altered, so that for " monetary system,"
should be inserted " corn laws," and the inquiry should
be how far the corn laws had injured the agricultural,
manufacturing, and commercial interests of the country.
Mr. CAYLEY said the Hon. Member said that the
landlords were now about to suffer for their conduct.
They were suffering, and their distress was the cause
of the distress of the countty. If there was a decrease
in the price of corn, would that tenant the parishes
that were said to be untenanted ? No such thing.
When the landed interest was depressed, all other inte-
rests suffered, for all depended more or less on its prospe-
rity. This might easily be proved. In 1817 and in
1819, wheat was 809. or 90s. a quarter, and the
country was then in a great state of prosperity.—(Hear.)
But when, in 1816, there was a great fall in the price ot
corn, the manufacturers were in a state far from flourish.
ing. In IS2O, 1821, and 1822, when corn was 504.,
405., and 375. the quarter, were the manufacturers then
fl iurishing ?—(Hear.) Then came the Act proposed by
the late Lord Londonderry, which was like a 1/. note
Act, and that Act had the effect of increasing the price
of corn from its then low state to 64s a quarter; Lod
then was heard from the Chncellor of the Exchequer ot
that day that the country had never known such a state
of prosperity ; so that it was evident the country stood no
chance of enjoying prosperity from a decrease in the price
of corn. The evils of the country seemed to him mainly
to depend on the state of the currency. It was known
that the portion of precious metals that used to go to the
East did not now go there, so that the supply of Europe re-
mained much the same as it was many years ago. One
Hon. Member had said that prices did not depend on the
circulating medium. He (Mr. Cayley) asserted that,
cateris paribus, they did. He might possibly disagree.
with the Hon. Member for Whitehaven upon the question
of the currency, but that was not the reason why he should
oppose the motion altogether. Nor did he think that the
Noble Lord was right in saying he should not object to
the Committee, but that the question of the currency
must be carefully excluded from its discussion. It was
almost the same as if, upon a question as to the existence
of an impure atmosphere, he at ould say, " I will allow
you to determine whether it is impure, and how its im-
purity may be remedied, provided that you carefully ex-
clude from your consideration all questions about the
introduction of oxygen gas"—(Hear and a laugh)—or it
was as if the Noble Lord should meet with a starving
begg ir upon his domains, and should take that beggar into
his kitchen, and show him the smoking viands prepared
for the table, and after having thus exhibited to him what
would cure his distress and starvation, should yet deny
him the use of them as a remedy.—(Hear.) The con-
duct of the Noble Lord reminded him of a matter that be
might properly mention. In the time of the American
war, it was a great question whether knobs or points were
the best conductors of electricity. The knobs were taken
rip by the people of this country, but the points were the
favourites of the immortal Franklin. The King, George 111,
sent a message to the then president of the Royal Society,
desiring him to settle the question at once in favour of the
knobs. The president answered, very properly, that the
laws of nature would not obey the mandate even of a
King ; and so he (Mr. Cayley) said with respect to
the laws of commerce and of currency.—(Hear, hear.)
To refuse any alteration of the present system amounted
to saying that an unreformed Parliament bad a
right to pass monetary laws, but that a reformed
Parliament hid no right to alter them. Suppose
a man was to forge a will, and so get possession of some
property, would it be right to say that b cause he had
held that property for 15 years, the rightful owner should
not be allowed to put in his claim to it, or if he was let
into possession of half of it, would it be right for him to
refuse to pay half the burdens upon that property ? He
directed the attention of the House to the divisions on the
subject, or on matter connected with it, since 1822, in-
cluding the motions of Mr. Western, Mr. Davenport, and
lastly, the recent proposition of the Hon. Member for
Birmingham, and contended that the result of these
debates showed an impression on the minds of the repre-
sentatives of the people, that distress had materially in-
creased. He also noticed the gradual augmentation of
crime and the number of convictions during the last thirty
years, together with the larger amount of poor-rates paid
now than at any former period. It wa impossible to
follow the Hon. Member through any of these details, in
consequence of the indistinct manner in which they
reached the gallery. We understood him to say, that
since the passing of Peel's Bill, in some situations the
amount of poor.rates had quadrupled. Emigr rtion to
Canada during the same period had increased 40 per cent.
Ile referred to sonic documents on the talsle, moved
for by one of the Honourable Members for Liverpool,
in order to establish the fact, that of late years the
number of poor Irish passed to their own country had
been beyond all former precedent. Having read come
details respecting the increased number of insolvents since
1814, he proceeded to the point of the circulation of
Bank of England notes at various periods, and to their
effect upon the prices of different commodities; in illus-
tration he read several extracts from the evidence given by
Mr. Palmer, Mr. Norman, Mr. Ward, Mr. Rothschild,
and others, before the Committee on the Bank Charter,
contending, upon their authorities, that it was expedient
that the amount of issues should be augmented. He in-
sisted that the distress of 1815 and 1816 was attributable
to the diminution of the circulating medium ; and that
the restoration of prosperity was owing chiefly, if not
solely, to the adoption of a contrary system, to the extent
of more than five millions. lie applied precisely the same
remarks to the distresses of 1822, which was followed, in
1823 and 1821, by a contrasted degree of prosperity,
owing to the same cause. Quitting details, into which
we cannot pretend to enter, for the reason already stated,
the Hon. Gentleman remarked, that this was no party. but
a great national question ; and the point to be decided
was, whether, it being within the power of Parliament
to relieve distress, it would have the honesty and the de-
: ruination to exercise its power ?—(Cries of " Hear,
.ear.") He alluded to the condition of the children in
ractories—to the Whitefootism to which Ireland had
seen reduced—and to the nearly equally wretched con-
dition of England—adding, that it would be well for this
country if ere long the Monarchy were not brought down
to the level of a Republic.—(Cheers.) The remedy for
existing evils was an elevation of prices, and he argued
that this object could be attained with little or no
injury to any class.—(Hear.) His object was to increase
prices—(Cheers)—he avowed it, and referred the House
to 1817 and 1818, when every branch of trade, and every
condition of society were in prosperity, without the
slightest complaint from what had been called the fixed
annuitants. At the same time be acknowledged that he
was by no means an advocate for the principle of free
trade, and least of all for free trade in paper. It was his
solemn conviction, that if relief were granted in the way
proposed, a child by a silken cord might guide the vast
machine of Government. If relief were retused, not an
angel from Heaven could govern the helm of State. He
caled upon Ministers to grant now what they still had
the power to concede, but which they might soon be with-
out the means either of giving or refusing ; it would be too
late to comply when the flood-gates had been burst, and
when all was involved in a wide deluge of dismay, ruin,
and revolution.—(Hear.)
Mr. A. BARING began by assuring the House that be
had no intention of occupying them at much length, or of
entering into any very minute details on the very ire.
portant subject with which they were then engaged.
Without further preface, he should come at once to the
question before them, and that was whether or not the
House was prepared to sanction an arbitrary departure
from the acknowledged measure of value. Parliament
was at that moment occupied with a question, in reference
to which there was not a man in the country possessed of
any property, or expecting any, or, lie might say, con-
nected with persons of property, who was not on the
tiptoe of expectation as to what might be the decision of
the reformed House of Commons upon that all-important
question. They were, as he said, all on tiptoe to see if
the wisdom of a reformed Parliament was likely to bear
those beautiful fruits which some politicians anticipated
troua its labours ; and which, if borne according to
those expectations, would, he hesitated not to say, lead
to a system of government fit only for savages in the
darkest state of intellect, and in the utmost degree
removed from civilization, or any of its concomitants. It
had been said by all the supporters of the motion, that
anintense pressure weighed down the energies of the
Dation...that every interest, from one end to the

other of the country, was labouring, but labouring in
vain, to rid itself from the overpowering burden, by
which it was almost crushed into the earth. Now, in his
judgment, if that pressure did exist to the extent affirmed,
he shou'd be glad to see it made out, how it did happen
that such a pressure should at all justify the proposed de-
parture from the present standard of value. Not that he
admitted for a moment, that even if such a proposition
were established beyond al! possibility of controversy,
it would by any means prove a remedy for the distress of
which they had heard eo many and such loud complaints.
It could not, of course, be lost sight of, that the country
was in a most artificial state as respected existing contracts
with each other, and with almost all the nations of the
world. With the variety of the complaints of those in-
terests before his eyes, he confessed it did surprise him
not a little, that any man out of Bedlam should dream cf
proposing anything so preposterous, and at the same time
so unjust, as that which had given rise to the present dis-
cussion. his surprise, he acknowledged, was somewhat
lessened when he recollected that to talent, and even genius,
were often allied that peculiar intellectual conformation
which was frequently subject to aberrations that could be
accounted for upon no admitted principle.—(A laugh )
He begged to be understood as not intending the slightest
personal disrespect to the Honourable Member for White-
haven ; on the contrary, he felt as every one must
feel, that that Honourable Gentleman could only be ac-
tuated by the best and most honest intentions, and if, in
the course of the observations which I.e felt it his duty
to make, any harsh expression might escape him, he begged
once for all to assure the Hon. Member that at all times
he gave him the fullest credit for sincerity and good faith;
and he folly believed that the Hon. Member far White-
haven entertained his opinions as conscientiously, and gave
expression to them with as much truth as he hinneelt
Ot the proposition upon which the house was then called
upon to pronounce a decision, he might truly say that
nothing like it was ever proposed before. The Hon.
Mover of that motion might, witnout much impropriety,
have his services transferred to the Sublime Porte. He
would make an excellent minister for the Grand Sultan
at Constantinople, and the proposal which he had just
made was one which would answer exceedingly well fiat
a Turkish budget—(Great laughter)—one of the most
prominent features of the system of government pursued
in Turkey was the frequent changes made in the measure
of value. A French gentleman had recently pub.
lashed in an almanack the number of changes made
in the value of the Turkish piastre, from the reign
of Mahomet the First to the present time. He should
not trouble the House with many of the changes, but he
could not help observing that they were not only annual
in their occurrence, but in some instances semi-annual.
In the years 1823 and 1827, the value was twice
changed, and the variations ranged within three shillinge
and three pence. As to the changes in the standard of
value, of which he had been speaking, their mischief was
understood and appreciated in every country, the least ad-
vanced in the science of political economy. The Tuiks
themselves had now their eyes open in more senses than
one.—( Heir, hear.) He felt that there was nothing
which could shake the position which he had taken up,
that if the requisitions of the Hon. Mover were complied
with, they would still not relieve the distresses of the
country, or prove any remedy for the pecuniary embarrass-
ment which was said to exist. However adverse to the
views of the Hon. Member for 'W hitebaven, he was not
prepared to deny that the settlement effected by the restora-
tion of the metallic standard was a settlement in all re-
spects fair at the time; but that was a totally different
question from that of disturbing that sett'ernent now that
it hail endured and bad been operating for so many
years. At the same time, without going anything near
the length of the proposition then before them, he should
have no objection to an inquiry into the state of our cir
culating medium at the present moment, with a view to such
improvement as might be eff,cted without disturbing con-
tracts at present in force. He should not then enter into the
question of the precious metals, as substances exclusively to
be used as a measure of value. It was not at that time of day
necessary for him to discuss such a question. The pre-
cious metals had been so long and so invariably used as the
standard of value, that it would be almost superfluous for
him to enlarge upon such a subject. 'those metals had
from the earliest period been in universal use. The Hon.
Gentleman, in support of this position, referred to the
patriarchial ages, and proceeded thence downwards to the
present day, contending that none but a few savages on the
coast of Africa, who used shells as a circulating medium,
there was no people in any part of the known world who
had any other measure of value than the precious metals.
Before the House could come to such a vote as that which
the Hon. Member for Whitehaven required, they must
brow away all the experience of ages, and all that for the
purpose of acquiescing in the motion of the Hon. Member,
who, after all, did not precisely tell them what he wanted.
In his humble apprehension, the House could never, con-
sistently with common sense, or common justice, pro-
nounce a decision in favour of a paper currency of any
other deecription than one convertible on demand—all
beyond that was vague, indefinite, and unsatisfactory ; all
paper currency, not convertible, must depend upon
the discretion or the credit of the parties issuing such
paper. he was aware it would be asked, had
they not in this country great prosperity at the
time there was a large issue of paper ? But he would
answer that observation by saying, that at the time re-
ferred to, great elements contributed to the formation of
that prosperity so much vaunted ; at that period England
had a monopoly of the sea. When the French thought
that they were blockading England, they were merely
blockading the sea, and excluding all the countries of the
continent from the " highway of nations." Then let it
not be forgotten, that at the period in question this coun-
try was enjoying a false and temporary prosperity, but it
was not the less striking and forcible in its effects.
England at that time was living upon loans—she was then
borrowing per annum at the rate of 20, 30, and in one
year, he believed, to the extent of even 40 millions. The
effect of such a state of things need scarcely be enlarged
upon. Suppose now in Norfolk, or any other county of
England, there were three gentlemen, each having 10,000/.
per annum; and suppose they resolved to raise money
upon mortgage to the uttermost farthing that their estates
were worth, and having done so, were resolved to spend
all the money in three or four years, was there any man
living who doubted that they would produce great
prosperity and an affluence of wealth in their neigh-
bourhood ? The case he had been supposing was pre-
cisely analogous to the case of Eneland during the war_.
the people of England were living upon their capital. The
gentlemen who might spend the produce of their mortgagee
in four or five years, would at the end of that period pro-
bably find themselves in the poor-house, and at the end
of the war the people of England would have found them-
selves in a poor-house, had there been one large enough
to have received them. To this hour the country was
suffering and groaning under the immoral habits which
were engendered during the profusion of the war, and the
extravagance to which it gave rise.—(Hear, hear.)
In the well-known report of the Bullion Committee, he
raight safely say that he concurred generally in its prernie
see, but dissented from its conclusion. In the year 1810,
in the midst of a war, and at a time when the most un-
natural stimulus was given to our monetary system,
when we were proceeding, 89 the sailors would say,
" with all our king kites aloft," it was absurd to talk of
arresting the progress of the country in the state in which
it then was, and to that hour he could not help wonder-
ing that such men as Mr. Herries and Mr. Iluskisson
could have thought such a measure at that time
practicable.—(Hear, hear.) For his part, though agree-
ing in all of that report excepting its conclusion,
he could not bring himself to do otherwise than vote
against it, unless, indeed, like the honourable Member
for Middlesex, he could think one way and vote
another. In addition to voting against that, he also voted
egainst the celebrated motion of Mr. Vausittart—indeed,
that was a motion of which every man was ashamed who
had voted in its favour. The Hon. 'Wernher them after
referring to the authority of Mr. H. Thornton in support
of the views which he bad taken of the question before
the House, proceeded to say that he admitted that it was
a grave undertaking to return to cash payments, but that
had been accomplished much to the honour of the country,
and to its reputation for good faith; but the abandonment
of that system was a question essentially different. He
was always for having justice done to every party, and
when the depreciation took place, he said that the philo-
sophers were wrong. From his own experience, he knew
that they Were wrong, and he shrunk from what they ad-
vocated. He knew that the moment :a sound principle
was departed from, it would entail ruin upon this coun-
try; that it would weave a web in which they would be
entangled, and cause difficulties that no sagacity could over-
come. Gentlemen should consider that theyhad heard enough
from the Hon. Member for Whitehaven, and from his Hon.
Relative, to prove that the former wanted to plunge them
on a strong sea, and that he was not the best pilot in the
world to weather such a storm. If they voted fear his motion,
it would be considering him a safe pilot—it would be en-
listing themselves under his banner—the fatal conse-
quences of having done so they would perceive the very
morning atter. Besides, the principle of honour was in-
volved in the question, and the Members of that House
would not sanction anything like trick; and if by any
chance they should so far forget themselves as to do so,
they should take good heed that they were not led into a
matte from which they would find it impossible to escape.
Now, taking a narrower View of the question, and setting

aside general and national interests, he would advise Hon
Gentlemen to look to their own interests, and to those Of
their constituents. For himself be would say, that he had
received a large number of letters from his constituents,
earnestly requesting him not to vote for the present mo-
tion—the consequences of which they stated would be
most detrimental to them. They besides entreated hie
not to listen in any way to the ignorant propounders of
currency-doctrines, where proposed system could only be
the result of their ignorance of the subject. Now let
them consider how the effects of the present (notion
would operate on the interests of country gentlemen.
Their prosperity, waether right or wrong, depended
en a monopoly of corn, and that it should be pro-
tected. If by a depreciation of the currency the pound
was reduced to 10s., it would bring the protection of 60,.
aaloveed to corn down to 30.. When the money standard
was reduced in that ratio, corn would come down in
reality to 305., though its nominal price should be 605.,
and this would be the result of the alteration at present
sought for.—(Hear, bear.) The Hon. Member for
Wolverhampton had contended that the 60s. might be
advanced to 120 s. ; he would not fight that battle with
the Hon. Member, as most likely he would not come out
of it with flying colours, but he would seriously advise
country gentlemen to leave the 60s. alone. Few were
aware how extensively this proposed alteration in the cur-
rency would operate : it would operate on the constitution
of the country; for by it your ten pounder, who had a
right to vote, would become all at once a live pounder.
--(Hear, and a laugh.) That was an observation he had
made when the Reform Bill was under discussion, and it
wts one of the reasons why he objected to a money qua-
lification, and why he said that it was most absurd to put
the franchise on the value of money. The Noble
Lord opposite, when he was building his constitution, did
not think much about money ; but when ho was legis-
lating upon the church, he took good care that. tithes
should not be paid for in money, but by a corn
rent.—(Hear, hear.) This corn tent was introduced,
he supposed, to protect the clergy.—(A laugh.) He would
now take the liberty of stating to the House to what ex•
tent he would go upon the subject under consideration.
If any motion on the subject had been made by any sober
man—(A laugh)—he meant to say, that if any proposition
of a more sober description had been made—one that
would show to the country where they were about to go,
and where they intended to stop—he should have enlisted
himself in the Committee of Inquiry, to see whether some
regulations of the currency might not take place, in order
to give greater facility to the business of the country. But
to any tnotma for an alteration of the currency, which
would tend to lower its value, he positively demurred ;
and he thought that all such inquiries as the present one
asked for, ought not to be made in times of uncertainty.
However, he would state to what extent a judicious altsra•
tion in the currency might be made. According to his
view, two alterations might be made ; yet he would listen
to whatever suggestions might be made by a Committee.
The first alteration would be to make bank notes a legal
tender to distant country bankers. This would have the
effect of obviating the disasters that generally followed a
run on the bank. The distresses of the Bank of England
might be caused by two things—first, by a run upon it, or
a general call for money; and secondly, by draft., for the
purpose of balancing exchanges. The one frequently acted
upon the other, and the result was the worst of all evils—
a general panie.—(Hear, hear.) The drafts, for the
purpose of balancing foreign exchanges, the Bank
might meet, and the country was so fit safe under the
present system, for one or two millions would set right
balances of that description. The action of the other on
the Bank was worse, and could not be easily met. He
would make a short statement of the difficulties of 1825.
There was then a run on the Bank, which was caused by
nitinerous failures in the metropolis and throughout the
country. General doubt and distress prevailed, and the
Rink was drained for goad. Everybody wished to he paid
in that metal, and a country banker—a banker at Nor-
wich—told him at that period that he could not sleep
quiet at night in his bed, unless he had obtained a sovereign
for every one pound note he had in the house. The con-
sequence of all this was, that the Bank of England was
neatly emptied, and would have stopped payment were it
not for a mere accident. No precaution that could be
adopted under the present system could secure the Bank
from dilemmas of this latter description. The banker of
Norwich would have slept quietly if Bank of England
notes were made a legal tender in the country. Let Bank
of England notes become a legal tender to country barkers
and the Bank will lie relieved from the danger he men-
tioned. The relief from that danger would be the benefit
derived from this proposition of his. The second object
tie would endeavour to promote, in a Committee of inquiry
upon this subject, would undoubtedly be that silver should
become, as well as gold, a legal tender—(Hear, hear)—
for he held that money, having its foundation in two
metals, would vary less with re.pect to comrnodiries ;
and that, consequently, it was bad to force the Bank
to confine itself to one metsl. Making silver a legal
tender would facilitate the operations of the Bank ; and
it was not only his own opinion, but that of Mr. Gallatin,
that silver was one of the best circulating mediums that
could be employed between different countries. If ever
the subject was submitted to inquiry—and he thought
that the time was not far distant when it would—(Hear)
—he would be prepared, without much difficulty, to show
the advantages that would arise from a silver currency.
That was the principal currency of Holland, of France,
and of almost every part of the world he was acquainted
with. There wis scarcely a country were silver was not
only the circulating medium, but where gold was not
objected to. In the Netherlands, there were circulating
ten millions of gold and four millions of silver. There
was a premium upon the latter; and it was considered
cheaper to pay in gold than in silver. In France, for
several years, the premium in favour of gold had not been
more than one-eighth per cent. ; and it had only in-
creased in consequence of our demand for gold, and would
in course decrease if this country adopted a silver cur-
rency. He had stated this on a former occasion ; the
Bank, and other persons connected with banking, were
then opposed to such an ;opinion ; but he knew that
many of them were at present in favour of that
opinion. A silver currency would not only benefit
this country, bat would benefit mankind, as it wou d
be the means of connecting foreign countries
more closely. Those were the two points that be held
it most important the House should pronounce upon, and
not upon the question whether the standard of value
should he departed from. His proposal would not he to
lower that standard, but to put it on two legs instead of
one.—(Hear, hear.) If the public excitement on the
deeper question then before them could be got rid of—and
that excitement might be done away with by the vote of
that night—then would it be safe to look to the two
points he mentioned, and see whether or not a mate-
rial facility might be given to the circulating medium of
the country. When those two points were settled, be
should not object to inquire whether from their operation
it would not be safe to come to an issue of 1/. notes.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, bear.") He did not mean to
pledge himself to an issue of 11. notes, but he saw no
reason why, under the additional securities be pointed our,
it might not be resorted to. Should those securities
become sufficient, he thought, and it bad always been
his opinion, that a 1/. note circulation was most use-
ful in facilitating business. There were, to be sure,
two objections to it. He meant the increased temp-
tation to forgery, and the uncertainty of those poor
people who had small sums in the country banks.
However, he contended that in many places a small '
circulation would be most useful, particularly among
farmers, and in small towns in agricultural districts.
It was not correct to state that manufacturers were
much distressed, but it was true that great distress pre-
vailed among the agricuburists—that larmers' capitals
were much reduced. In small agricultural towns the dis-
tress sometimes proceeded from a want of small circula-
tion, to enable the farmer to transact business with
greater facility with the small tradesmen of country towns.
That a more extended circulating medium would do them
greed was not only his opinion, but it trees also that of his
constituents. After these statements, it might be plausibly
asked of him why he objected to go into the Com-
mittee of Inquiry now asked for ? His reason was, that he
objected to go into such a Committee with a man who
clearly wanted a complete subversion of the standard
of value of the country —(Loud cries of " Hear.") That
Hon. Member had drawn up resolutions in the way all
those who intend to catch flies draw up resolutions,
for he could turn round if they were not agreed to,
and say, " What! you won't go into an inquiry about
tt
01 the
o distressin to an ofin the
inquiry
country?"
on
ttrhye present ?" Itn
tvisaukisiemcpt impossible
the
leforlihoinm
Member, for he could not separate his avowed opinions
from any measures he proposed, no matter how they
were coloured or concealed. He might as well go into
an inquiry about the distress of Ireland with the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin, who would state, and
no doubt from conviction, that the union of the two
countries was the cause of that distress, and that separa-
tion was the only remedy. Or be might as well go into a
Committee of Inquiry on the distress of the country with
that great philosopher, Mr. Owen, always supposing that
one of the fruits of reform was the return of that philoso-
pher to their Honourable House, who of course, would
make, on the subject of that general distress, a flaming
speech on the community of goods, wives, and everything
else—(Laughter)—and who would attribute the dis-
tress to something Wrong in the social system... Front

these remarks it would be readily seen that he could not
consent to the motion of the Hon. Member for White-
haven. He would conclude by stating that it was his in-
tention to support the amendment of the Noble Lord ;
begging the House, however, not to suppose that he was
opposed to any alterations in the currency that would do
good to the country, but that his opposition to the origin al
motion proceeded from his conviction that it tended to
destroy the national standard of value.—(Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL said, that though he agreed in some of
the observations of the Hon. Member who spoke last, and
should vote on the same side with that Hon, Member, yet
there were some arguments made use of by him in the
latter pirt of his. speech which excited consi !erable doubt
and apprehension in his (Sir R. Peel's) mind, and which re-
quired to be in some measure qualified. His Hon. Friend
first said, that he was prepared to adhere to the present
standard, but yet that he was willing to have a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into two material component parts of
that standard--first, with reference to the re-issue of one
and two-pound notes ; and, secondly, as to the union of
silver with gold. This would be a leading cause to th it
state dexcitement and suspense which the Hon. Menat er
mentioned as one of his main objections to the very same
thing. He (Sir Robert Peel) would unhesitatingly pre-
dict what, in his decided opinion, would be the conse-
quence of this re-issue. He felt that the inevitable con-
sequences would be that the gold circulation would
entirely disappear—(Hear, hear)—and he was prepared
to prove this position by the consequence attending
similar re-issues in other countries. In Scotland it
had destroyed the circulation of coin. In Ireland,
and in America, similar results had been produced.
In fact this system would be an encouragement to
the country bankers to prevent the issue of coin, for
the paper circulation would be a much cheaper one ; but
the mischief would be, that there was herein no security
for the excess of this paper circulation. They could not
take all the landed and funded property, and say it
should be the guarantee for this excess. The re-issue of
one and two pound notes might perhaps produce the
direct interest of all parties—it might and would lead to
an increase of prices—a fictitious stimulus to trade—but
how long would this last ? Not more than a few
months ; but at the end of these two or three months the
gold in the country would not be adequate to supply the
demand, and then would ensue the sudden contraction of
all banks, and circulation, and this would be followed by
that stagnation of all commerce and trade, which nothing
hut a metallic currency can prevent. The re-issue of one
and two pound notes from a bank would infallitify cause
the stoppage of that bank. If country bankers were
allowed to offer bank notes instead of coin, it would be
impossible to limit this to the country bankers. But sup-
posing the mu demanded were 4/. 10s., surely the hanker
would have to pay this in gold. The appointment of this
Select Committee would lead to most injurious conse•
quences. Referring to the Bill of 1619, the Right Hon.
Baronet said, that so great was the interest he felt on this
subject, and so important did he consider it that it should
be fully discussed, that, tired and annoyed as he feared the
House must be with the discussion of a question so dry
and tiresome in most of its features, he must entreat their
indulgence for a short time. He could not allow this Bill to
be branded as the foundation of injustice and injury
without vindicating it from these aspersions. He denied
those propositions ; and here he must observe, that in his
observations on this subject, he utterly rejected the vile
personal motives and considerations which had been im-
puted to hint elsewhere. He wished to God such asser-
tions were made face to face to him in that House, instead
of being made before an irritable and iufl onmable body of
people. An Hon. Member had most considerately removed
the blame, as he called it, of this Bill from off his (Sir
R. Peel's) shoulders on to those of Lord Liverpoel. He
could not allow this to pass over ; for the Bill of 1819,
he (Sir R. Peel) had himself brought in, from his firm
conviction, that unless the paper circulation rested on the
base of metallic circulation, there would be no security
for anything.—(Hear, hear.) An Hon. Member, last
night, informed the House, that this Bill had been
passed on the strength of a speech, described by him as
containing no matter in it whatever, but as resembling
the harp of Orpheus. Yet the fact was, that the subject
hail been under discussion for several years before 1819,
and several Committees bad sat on it. As to the Hon.
Member's similitude, he (Sir R. Peel) must say, he did
not think Orpheus would have chosen such a dry question
as the bullion question for his lyre—(A laugh)—nor, if he
had, would he have " deluded" the Members of the city,
and softened the flinty hearts of the Bank Directors,—
(Renewed laughter.) In 1819, five years had elapsed
since the general peace, medial! this time had the question
been discussed. Nay, so early as 1810, Mr. Vansittart
had moved, that from that period the Bank should make
its paymeots in cash, for good reasons then given. From
the year 1614 the Bank restrictions had been from time to
time enforced, and the Bank itself bad, in 1816-17, con-
fessed its liability to make payments in gold by the issue
of that coin to the amount of seven millions. The mea-
sure he bad brought forward in 1819 was, as he had
thus shown, by no means so unheard of a measure as it
had been represented ; he disclaimed none of the responsi-
bility of this measure; but in the whole course of the
proceeding no direct opposition to his proposal had been
successfully made. The then Member for Coventry bad
made a counter-proposition, which was rejected almost
unanimously, while his (Sir R. Peel's) measure passed.
The only amendments had been one made in this House,
and the other in the Upper House by Lord Holland : the
former proposing that cash payments should be resumed
in 1822 instead of 1823, as he (Sir R. Peel) had sug-
gested; and Lord Holland proposing that the change of
currency should come into effect. in 1820. Parliament
had thus really made themselves responsible for this Act,
whatever responsibility there might be. For his part, he
wholly denied that this Act had been the cause of the
prevalent distress. There certainly was a great depression
of prices, and considerable distress; but to attribute these
results to the Bill of 1819 was a gross fallacy. They
might say that Mr. Ricardo was wrong; but they were
ten times mere wrong who attributed the distresses to
this change of currency. The great pressure felt by the
country, so far from being laid to the charge of the Bill of
1819, ought to be a warning and a lesson to the people
not to return to the abominable depreciation caused by the
paper system. The fact was that the present pressure
was the reeult of re-action : it was not the effect of the
change of currency. People seemed to think that by
a return to paper money they would enjoy the
same apparent prosperity as at the time of the war;
but if any man thought that prices could be kept
up as high now as during that period, he would
find himself extremely mistaken.—(Hear, hear.) During
this long war, extending from 1793 to 1815, there had
been an inconvertible paper circulation, and all this time
England had the supplying of all Europe. While this
state of things lasted it was all very well, but it was mon-
strous to suppose that the return of peace would not also
bring about a great change of circumstances. His Hon.
Friend seemed to rely upon the evidence of Mr. Thornton,
who stated that prices had risen 50 per cent. under a
paper circulation ; but the House must recollect that this
evidence was given in 1811, when the war was at its
height. Now things were quite altered. There was
much said about distress; but bad they never beard of
distress existing before Isl 9 ? In 1793 was there no dis-
tress? Did not one hundred bankers fail that year, not.
withstanding that there was a paper currency ? In 1797,
was there no distress under the same circumstances? In
1810 was there none? At the time of this 50 per cenn
increase of prices talked of by Mr. Thornton, was there
not a decrease of 50, 60, and 70 per cent. in the agricul-
tural districts ? These facts showed that there was no
infallible defence against calamity, let the currency be
what it may. In 1816 there was also severe distress._
bankers failing to a great extent, though the Bank had
not diminished its issue. He would show from the au-
thority of the same men who now wished to alter our con-
tracts, that these contracts had not been made only since
the year 1819. The present proposition could only lead
to a mere vague inquiry, without producing any practical
results, except, indeed, a depreciation of prices. The
effect would be, that every man who bad mate a contract
for the last 33 years, as he would show, would have that
contract disturbed, though it had been made under an
improved currency—or at least ninety-nine out of a
hundred would. The first witness he should call into
the box would be the Hon. Member for Whitehaven
himself, and he would make him demonstrate that
the value of the currency was improved previous to the
year 1819; and that he was, in fact, going to alter a
standard improved long before that year. In May, 1817,
moneyyea rs before
had
doubled
two years before the Bill was even brought in, the Hon.
Member wrote a letter to Mr. Vansittart describing the
inlBl9,
m olnvehtitterhy
he stateof
showed the country t
h t the
within the five years beginning from 1812 up to 1817
The Hon. Gentleman then went on to say that forty
aval for
talus soifx
thousand nailers were literally perishing of hunger, or
dying of the unwholesomeness of the food which they
used. lie said that previous to 1818 the landlords had
received no rent for four years, and if they had derived
any income at all from their lands during that period, it
must have been drawn from the capital of the farmers, not
from the profit from the land ; and that the consequence
was, that those who had converted their property into
money before that period had actually doubled their ca-
pital. Now he (Sir B. Peel) contended that the whole
of the Hon. Gentleman's argument proved, if it proved
anything, that the currency had been in a gradual state

not' tbe
of improvement since 1812, and it was 0_ 0,
fans fair to say that the measure of 181131,.) I
cause of the increase in its value.—(Hear;se to
would now draw the attention f th r_
remedy proposed by the Honourable Gen
•d
ter stating the depressed state of the lano ei oftp
and that the produce would not repay th.c
.tflijossi
labour, he proposed, in order to remove tilat4,ol,
state of things, that a part of the permanent st!',ll,
be converted into a floating debt, and that
b:.
Rills to the amount of 100,000,000/0 abnaide_balibl
which shou'd bear no interest, and that no i,astl:_",
made further than would balance the rate of.ecor'ibthi,
profits —(Hear, hear.) He then went on to °
state of the country as being as if an invadiOg sot sji
passed through it ; and he concluded by sal ..hee'
was the state of the country since the perio
bullion report was given in 1810. All thi ;go:
s P reigi
from natural causes, the currency had heel inioy,
value for the last 23 years.—(An Host. 3fexc
niet(i!.
attempted to address the House, but be tveg
.)
loud cries of " Order," and ultimately sat doll, Ite,f;o
Right Hon. Baronet went on. He would now slB4,
effect this state of the country had upon the
,eps
Bank of England paper during those years, an, f,,efrs
beg the House to remember that at that perioo,lioti
CV allowed to issue 1/. and 21. notes. The naesool,i
1808 were 16 600,000/. ; in 1809, 16,54 r %)/1'
1810, 178840,000/. ; in 1811, 20,800,0001, ;.1:
23,000,000/. ; in 1813, 23,532 0001.; lio
21,000,000/. ; in 1815, 27,000,001. ; It
26,573,0001.; and in 1817, 27,000001'J o
coincident with these issues that that deprer:iyi•
place of which the Hon. Gentleman gave so Ilb_tibiet
seription ; and did it not prove that an matle;
per money was no guarantee against distressbie (sir
Committee were unfortunately appointed, and
..,001J,,°1
Peel) were a member of it, the first thing lie —de'
was, that he admitted the distress in the countrYtb-doce
the depression was proved, but he would ask if geilll!
be so absurd as to ascribe that distress to the cliabn'oo'''
state of the currency. He would tell the me° „eOOO 1/`
to in°cesniubf:et:
Committee that they could not give in a rere dere!:
ion
subject until they had first philosophically eeO"borl,
c...nsequence of the monopoly which this countil ftlie
had of manufactures, the effect of the late war' °a toll!
strictions on the importation of foreign corn, °Pee tic
re
Py
datwohtillohntusashehtdieyiwpdirnheheigaoilotoiiruotwenu,:ipvo topics. He would tell them that these 're' till
tli'
eld nird stl isyluekot,
it
writ strongly
gdy,ree of threahhem luturtireoleppsiidios
antewnletlda,,,iffeiikt:epeheerneecce
taoot:qcntooteutsnna
ceiahnti,sttri, tiyhindsi,
eiosfttaianhhedcksad,aettded,ra,narttwtuyaeooap, lhoooltia:hottrthetglitterbbeeodteetigc:tceotoilot
of
S
at
awinwt
bhaeoleerrn:ortveniovnooal:yrlirlulyerotndfoh fa:ntotoahtnelFti
uiuerrfrraanneatecuteott:ieuienensitGtrirnoieanoerts:t,:oanwnt
eath coleSee peroit'
Could Emland hope that it could maintain,
factures ? He would ask the Housei
state of the manufactures of those countries Wl' -lbePe,
pare them with their state at theclose of the SVO"
cause of the depreciation of prices was, that
surances, &c. had fallen. What was the call'", s'
lowness in the price of our cotton manufactere9oncle
it not that the staple commodity of throe se3nntscte,',
had fallen ? And, if it had fallen, could the wa°d er°,
lo,pe to get the same price for the manufactuteo, Pt;
which he formerly got when the raw matesial,ere tl
times its present price ?—(Cheers.) Then daps
the improvements in machinery, and the inctea"os
cation of steam. Surely these bad some effect belt'
depression in the price of manufactures---(Ffriari rer',
And was there no cause f r the depression -0e
since the war ? Could any landlord expect the lose
now that he received during the war, when pr Itirstt
so high that touch bad land was brought into e°
in order to meet the demand ? Ought they not° eir°
what effect the increased importation of farm Pr.(jA Lite° s;
Ireland had upon the prices in this country, 0%000,
tain the effect of the poor laws, and of the adinl"totc,..
of those poor laws? All these were most inirr 00 "
siderations in order to come to a right conclusteli.. titl;
subject; and it would be necessary for tberr,
men, philosophically to consider them, e°4 094
them their due weight. Yet the ffon• tole
for Whitehaven would attribute the distress erivo9.;
the operation of the change in the currency ip 104
(Hear, hear.) Another:Hon. Member not ordioofs,
many ingenious arguments to prove that 60.4
was the cause of all our domestic distreg7j:ptf,
also attributed to it the fall of the Bourbon
tainirdcweet,atbeedc,ursheatthLe osutaisnitirldil pofnotwheocinctrzeietdarya
sytegebolo4
Engl tied had been changed iulBl9.—( Hear, and 1°7,0,
rr'idttd:oAtaruu3oeotrtiojecrst'd'ogicor,:',,::
It had been stated, too, that the Irish disturbao
to Ibp
caused by the same measure, and that previous /4100
there had been no disturbances in that country. ell
point. (4:
(Sir R. Peel) wished to examine that t .-oslte.s!
Member had stated that crime in Ireland had jo,rer
proportion to the distress. He had not, haw%
that if they were to restore paper money thc"; d
would be diminished. He (Sir R. Peel) adgl'aitetlid#:
crime had increased, but he did not on that acc4"oppei,
the inference drawn by the Hon. Member. t
that in 1811 the number of committals had bee,i
in 1813, 7,164; in 1815, 7,818 ; and in 18'
3
Nov, by the Hon. Geotlernan's statement, thudd :10,11.0
been two prosperous years during that period, apand, ito
the ',resent time—namely 1818 and 1825; dimio' I,
arguments were true, crime ought to have, IS
1
oiotaihtr, ;led:
eiprnirngo committalsnsl,p tiseltti2roiissotey,neislt
ewet,xah4ecreorsee.opet;BonT:
nu,
tu;tl:l3,ioissnwi2nllsvsse:vrhii,
vetessh,ytehithn,
iahgetrehi
they
leae
scy:
ftitevr
e::rofei
tgi3O:sl
in
of all. Then. in drawing a picture of the staikeT: to !i0
(which he described as being equally applie'tbe Pew
land) he said that the cattle were banished fr 00,4 ac
the plough stood still, the land was uncultivat' 'oh °be;
nure was bought, that universal distress revstish,,,el,ol
that agriculture was ruined. The question wasp" the "01
these facts were so : the question was, whethered o.
of the application of capital was to be attrilitiise P°,lo
disturbances or to the measure of 1819? ge
Member said they were applicable to the chanrs
currency. That he (Sir R. Peel) denied., heett!Aiji,
when there was plenty of paper money, it had "ntisu'As;
necessary to pass the Insurrection Act, and it c°° soot
farce till 1810, and in 1814 it bad again to coo
gclehteslhwBa.edr were
been
noe 18.beuefsoparetet:rdi bietun;;(103:::
stand previous to tb3",pt
for the cattle had bieeliodssiirs
Baronetlun then read a statei7 ti°'
qtcfcnaTf
darthunutliocoheladammuttrennuebibgtßittitieeeehitri sicyhgaviei
quantity,
fifdstauTted honi
theihHdbxentb9eieeol,ceednfßneuontti
n.shrrhai
grcteenauaeetipbeltaoyai
tgBwHrwae
odri nneue.aa,ltthatiennhi
,ritpechareesepesqer
present
nat
ind
ttteiihnratey..e I
ported from Ireland, from 1810 to 1826, to!,,,tbetis'il
e
of sCp
of Trade had very truly said, that it ought to be
the distress was universal, and not confined to bad tit'
instances or particular districts. Now, 'fbeod
done by the supporters of the present inquiry: odd/
confined themselves entirely to particular i° rte °e
places. One Hon. Member had cited Weed 00
namely, Oldham, Macclesfield, and Whitby, Les
that they were fair criteria of the whole king"- o'it'rte"l
selection was admirable, and was on a footiegge,,i'
whole of the arguments brought by those seh.° OS( iYI
the same side of the question. Oldham, i, -sebl
known, had been one of the principal ate'," fell'ot
hand-loom weavers, who had suffered most bad
the introduction of machinery. Macclesso4e4,,,,
fered from the same cause; for that town Wit, oseb'
equal capital with Manchester to invest osseitid at
and improvements, it could not compete with ltbe ht'efrl.
tures. So far then three instances could not iiigeol
formins; a criterion of the state of the country d 6
Then as to Whitby, it was well known, 501,
even at the time when a representative had bee(fietit'oit,tl
it, that it was in a decline from local causee.'" , the at
a laugh.) The argument, therefore, drawn Iron ,eorer.
rpeonincyt,
,hroow.ledvehra,vweausp—onw
ation of these three places—allof which had been.u,;orror
The .wear
front local causes—was a complete fallacy.
—(Hear)—and he said that his convictiortiat,e2 0f .i
would ruin them.—(Cheers.) The depreseu 1300le get
ht
the stateeffc effect
currency world raise the price of every con fe
before it would affect the rate of wages. He Gad th`jo,
conviction, at the period when he recnimm.ehne Clistrcio
sumption of cash payments, that much ot rest
11
the working classes was to be attlibuted to
_h.iicer,.)
their wages in a depreciated currency.---(u tse
,d
currency had endeavoured to enlist the I°bou
cool ot t
It
on their side, and he aduaitted that if they b
their assistance they should have an excellentally'
rtehteu MI a
it):
uawriPi
t0)31;,.
those ciaese". ttePot
(Sir R. Peel) appealed confidently to , recta oe
knew that those who laboured for a return t.og do,"
the currency, and that they should maintain toe. plat 01
Yalu wore yr
of wages in money of the present standardbtained
quite sure that the labouring classes o tt,
the comforts of life on the wages they ob 9
cool° fie&
told them it was their interest to resist all elePLe 01,
the present monetary system than they
or
former period.....—(Hear, bear, bear.) A In

~u i