The Sun.
London, England, 1802-04-06 00:00:00

IMPORTS AND EXPORTS.

He had now to propose another Tax, with a
different sensation from that which he felt on
the former, which was • regret, for now he pro-
posed a measure without any' reluaance, because
he had the pleasure to know it was approved of
by the most considerate part of those on whom
it was to fall.: he meant a Tax upon Imports
and Exports—a substitute for the Convoy Duty.
He had held conferences and received communica-
tions with several well informed individuals and pub-
lic-spirited men, who had given to him much useful
information upon this subject, and whose co-opera-
tion he had reason to exped in the measure he was
about to propose, and 'which he believed would be
brought forwatd in a shape that would not be found
to be materially inconvenient to the branch of trade
on which it was to operate. He proposed to get
rid altogether of the present mode of taking the
Duty, to do away the system of ascertaining it ad
valorem, in some cases, and to make'certain regu-
lations in others, as explained by a schedule which
comprised sco articles of Duty, which would be
conveyed all at one view. The Duty on Imports,
with certain modifications, was to be increased,
and that upon Exports to be diminished.- This
could not he said to be a Duty that would operate
to the injury of trade, for it had been already tried
for three years, and during that period our trade
had rapidly increased. He was aware it might be
contended, that we are not to look with confidence
for the continuance of the advantages of trade we
had during the War. He was not disposed to enter
into that question minutely at present ; but he was
ready to say, that from the best information he could
obtain, and with all the refledion he had been able
to make on that subjett, he was not disposed to fall
into the despondency which some Gentlemen seemed
to feel upon it ; but on the contrary, the prospeCt, as
it appeared to him, was very flattering : and here he
should take occasion to observe, that it was his inten-
tion to recommend the adoption of a system which

' took place in 1786, for the purpose of.Conso'ida!inle
the Customhouse Duties, and which wouel eave t
i
double advantage of rendering
any vexatious de-
duCtive, and putting an end to m
lays which take place under the present system
from which plan it was stated to him,. in a way
that left no doubt in his mind of the truth of it, that
the Merchants would derive great advantagee—;
the duty more pro-
He estimated the produce of this duty at the sum °I
of i,000,0001. The amount therefore of the ways
and Means, for defraying the interest of 97,9341437 i
would be as follows :
Malt and leer • - 2,c00,000
Assessed Taxes ' 1,000,000
Duty on Imports and Exports , 1,000,00 y
In all - 4,000;000
By this there was an excess beyond what was want'
ed .(that amounting only to 3,211,20214 of near
800,0001. By which some Gentlemen would be in.:
duced to say, perhaps, that as this was more than was
wanted for the Public Service, it should not be
adopted to this extent : he was not aware of any
error, either in his expectation otehis calculation,
but he was confident, that if there was any error;
it was an error on the right side ; and though he ha"
expressed himself with full confidence upon the Pre,
sent state of things, yet it was to be prepared with
a sum beyond that which was absolutely necessallei
Upon the subject of the produce of the Consolidat
Fund, he requested, for a few moments, the patien
attention of the Committee. It was nor his 'lnc:-
Lion to go with minuteness into that S Obje ft nowt
nor to ask the opinion of the Committee on tt it
present. He knew that the case was grave and
aund:
portant, and calculations could not be correalY m ht
upon it without considerable labour, and he th°Ll
he should not be at-ling rightly, if he were to 11:;'
timate a wish, much less to express an expettatiii
of having an opinion upon this matter until it te°,,-0
be considered; but it was necessary that he 5ilC -rhe
state the reason he had for having deviated from;,
usual course, in this particular. He knew he
:ate
treading on tender and sacred ground. He 'vas -,-est
there was not in that HOuse, nor in this country''
in the world, an individual more deeply imPre.e%id
than himself with a conviction that the Sink"
was the sheet anchor of this Country, and ha,"
our consolation on the subjed of Finance ; an. e- the
were to make a proposition, which could', "", roe
slightest degree, shake that Fund, or retard 't,ss,"he
greys in the redemption of the Public De",',' tee
should meet, and he should deserve to meet) ,t"-
proach. of every man who felt as he ought to "°:, of
as himself he was sure did, for the true inter
he-,1 to
his Country. The operation of the plan he "i ore
submit would be the subjed of discussion on a ,arxe
day : the objedof it was not to retard, but t°„btie
celerate the plan for the redudiOn of the 'el',
Debt ; and without going into it with minnten::o,
reserving that, as he had said, for another ocean'
_
he would only state enough to call the attentio 'hat
Gentlemen to the general nature of the subjea, 100„
each Member might have an opportunity °f
sidering it, as he should, maturely -and delisetet,
ly in his closet. The Committee would ree°,"-th'e
that in 1786 the plan was first submitted t°
consideration of the House, and then a Bid
the re;
by whiCh One Million was appropriated to , .0,
• dation of the National Debt. All the componn"
terest of this sum was made to accumulate, and it W'i
vested in the hands of Commissioners who 51107 c
receive the annuity thus accumulating, unt:d.olos
whole should amount to the sum of four milli
annually ; and when that period arrived, it wo
gal r
declared to be in the powei of Parliament _
whether that should continue to increase, or be 3F;',
plied in the redudion of Taxes. In the year
it was provided that one per cent, of cverY the
or .further sum borrowed, should be appliid''~•as,
same manner as the million was in leS6 tilatoo of
to operate as a Sinking Fund for the. extincq e,-0
of such Loan, in like manner as the other Ft"' -0.
- '
applied to the redudion of the Debt. IN°': ortr-
tended to propose that these two powerfuh'd, antic'
ative Sinking Funds should be consolidatediona
work their purpose together, for the redter para.-
the whole Debt as it now stood, and, howevt.at the
doxical it might appear, yet it was true, ~bed
whole of the Debt could thus ex be 'Ling"- 1 ati .
less time, that was, in a shorter penes" the
to by keeping each to its operation, according whole
former system, because by the new plan the by the
Fund would continue to accumulate, whereaasid cease
old plan, the operation of accumulation " lie ad,
when it amounted to 4,000,0001. UP°
iteo sv
vantages of the latter system he exPall' ttion
great ability, by which, he said, the 00 forty-five
the whole Debt would be accomplished in .Aefeci as
years, a Debt which must now be topside t that
upwards of 500,000,0001. He was confiaeoto
he
if this statement he had made should proveld not
v ov
accurate, and unless he thought so, he " biohiu
have stated it to the Committee, it was • and,
deserving of attention : his great objea wa•b,otice
he should expatiate upon it hereafter, to d0:1;00 fo
to the present time, and also to make provls:d char
the welfare of our posterity. It might he- s'ibe re'
the benefit to be derived to the Public bond thad
duftion of taxes, after the Sinking' ,%, this
attained its maximum, would be preventea,e'oclell
plan, but it should be considered, that, rode)
00014
of this plan, there would he to he provided 9°°a; e
to support the Fund of One per Cent. for
duftion of the Capital accrued since the
hiarst rctvas
rr
vision was made for such reduection. eeeforhi'''
one other subject on which it was necessary
otty
to say a few words, and on which, he was se,„ an'
say, he was not able to give the satistaCtuu
rlle
.4 ea CO c
sorer he could have wished. He
ergav
Duty that was payable on Salt. He Ilev, ;stet'
any assurance upon that subjen, but he had
ha.'"
in the course of the present See.Jion, vt4;
hopes he should be able to get rid of thi get rod
towith
No man felt more than he did, a desire
be done 101
of such a duty as this, when could
tgriCes,
safety. But under the present circumb ,
until we saw the effed of Peace, and,a tio
some other things were considered/ he ouslireer thec
think that he should be justified in pro') to th
eersearL
repeal of this Duty—He did 100 k Jur ved I`,A5
period when this Country might be re'lebe ‘4%e
re3pea; but he would not allow that the it to ho;
so very oppressive a one as some had s?
on the lower order of the commoo'rYol:vc thew'
wished more seriously than he did to oil

•
but he did not think the Tax was so grievous as
some persons had stated ; he knew the importance
of the use of this article in salting provisions, and in
rnanufaCtures, &c. These were very grave and great
considerations, and should have their weight here.
after; but he could .not say that this was, under
all 'tile eircumstams:s, the season for that purpose;
and he had the comfort to refleCt, that the pressure
11Pon the Lower Classes of Society in consequence
of tiii,, duty, was net very severe. Not that he
did not wish to see it repeeled, he certainly did, and
Wished he could assent to it now ; but he did not
think, wrier all the circumstances of this Conn-
try, 00 wo.Ad be justifvfd in so doing. He would
n°" r :elate to the Committee, under their
6istioa heads, the substance of what he had already
stated in detail.
The whole Supply was 240614,4301. of which
there Was -sar Ireland the sum of 4,808,3381.
The whole of the Ways and Means already voted
;as 27,Q30,874.1. The sum actually wanted for
-;.lnteresr, Management, Sec; was 3,211,2021.; and
e had provided Taxes for raising the sum of
~,t°oo.oool. The general ground of the opera-
ston of the two Sinking Funds united, he should
ilve to bring forward on Friday, or Monday next.
said he was not aware it would he necessary for
to delay the Committee any longer upon this
sclubjea he certainly did look back on the con_
iautt of that House and of this country during the
tiosisotkendine years with pride and satisfaction ; and be
, forward with hope. He was truly convinced,
o:fj kuY Prudence and vigilant economy (respecting
de,i;c',l, however, he made no promises or professions,
T,.-rlng only to be judged of by his cOnduti) he
1-I;usted he said, that by a firm and a temperate system,
ire ItlaY promise to ourselves security and comfort.
• an-rillltist be the wish of every Member of that House,
10every man in this Country who felt an ardour
We Its welfare. To secure to us:our advantages,
i,shoUld adopt, to use the words of his Noble
Er. should
the Secretary of State (Lord HAWKES-
bI,IItiI, a system of Conciliation and Firmness,
eft which we might preserve to ourselves the
,„ ssings of Peace, which were to be preserved,
n„-- by insuitiog the honour of other Nations,
in u hy invading their Securities, or breaking
jo:P:(41) Or quesioning the independence of other
be-7,' t3ns, but by feeling he blessings of Peace, and
bridB prepared to vindicate and maintain them. •
.thiset' these iiporessions, he felt a eenviaion that
a We stem, duly followed, would continue to afford
as 11 grounded hope of tranquillity and ease,
evils as prosperity and independence. The
(it War, he
.hoped, and indeed was con_
not ' had ceased to operate on us. This should
I\rntlllqice us tbNet the maxims of our true policy.
system of jealousy, for that he trusted we
ay-,"iu never pursue, but a well direCted reoollated
ink' only
of and caution. It was thus, and
i
(July we could continue to enjoy those bless-
vas fibr Which this Country was so eminent. He
tilae s,tnaokful for theindulg,ence he had, received from
th`-ommittee, and sensible he owed an apology for
tie. length of time and manner in which he had
alined their attention.
11,
I.lle CHANcEnnoR of the EXCHEQUER theeven
eyed a-Resolution for raising the sum of Twenty
Mmliionis by way of Loan.
o e. WHITBREAD said, he did not intend to
as Illtleh at- large into the subject, but representing,
he did,. a respeCcable body of men, whom he
hensidered to be in this instance oppressed, he must
'Mowed to protest against the plan of the Right
.th?l''' Gentleman. It might be from sensations of
nature that he was not inclined to participate
bylit,()Se expressions of joy which were manifested
lkil,.;"e. House u on hearing the statements of the
pos'e'dll Ilion. enptleman. By the measures now pro_
tern the Right Hon. Gentleman, the solid Sys_
to- b°: Fiotinee established by his Predecessor was
the p- enltirely done away, and however material
Illougirl`',,eessor of that Right Hon. Gentleman
that soit.,lne Income Tax to be to the existence of
repealed SYstemvf Finance, that tax was now to be
tlti-it I,' Thus the Right Hon. Gentleman, however
atl'ioe"e Praised the conduct of his Predecessor, yet
pon—isaine time by his acts he passed a censure
Inca" that conduel. He rejoiced at the repeal of the
posertlile I..ax, but he wished some tax had been pro.
lower would not press so injuriously on the
to IN; orders of the people, as that now proposed
alt and
Which Beer by the Right Hon. Gentleman,
Of s 0105 t immediately operate to raise the price
tip,o,`,‘„er• When former taxes had been imposed
ally "'alt, it had invariably been the case that an
to ti'4nee had been made, or a drawback allowed,
ag~ißrewers, for the purpose of proteaing them
Getnst private breweries, but now the Right Hon.
aacelt2enian wished to take away ail those allow_
as t "' and. would raise the price of Beer so high,
3,4 Preclude every advantage to the Brewer. For
emit )r, earspast the profits of the Brewer had been
eons e'Y gone, from the high price of every article
tiled in the brewery ; the Brewers had been
if this
to make even interest for their capital, and
Whilels
rot was to be laid on, it woul.l not be worth
isno carry oo the trade. He would suppose a
go4ntity of
200,000 barrels to be brewed by one
be a sum of ;0,0001. would immediately
the tr,akeo out of
the noCket of the Brewer ; and
that';o_lhmittee would he so
~-;ood as to observe,
packet money could thus be taken out of the
the ,ts of the Brewers, any future Chancellor of
11 01112xsliequer might with the satee facility take the,
trY out of the pockets of any other trade whatever.
usted the
impose ,_Committee would not consent to
,it tax wood Beer, or at any rate that they
Would t
)0t accede to any proposition for taxing the
Stolast
on hand. The Po-ewers had in the course of
season imported a large quantity of foreign
Carlel, but unfortunately the speculation turned out
‘0a,.".3. had one, and a loss of not less than 40,0001.
40:7
.consequence sustained by them ; he hoped
me
chef would be afforded to them in this in-
4nee. H
e thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had
%tate(' tl
.t amount of -this Tae at a sum far below
bar
Was likely adoally to produce, as instead of
hatk. ,000 he conceived it would produce 2,500,0001.
_should turn out to be the case, and as the
amount than
Gentleman had already taken a larger
11:;'°' than was wanted, he trusted that there was
csecasion
Iva. a.
sol vote a latger sum of money than
i:,ti'lltebre_utely necessary. The Brewers had en-
the greatest difficulties for some years

past, which had Aleted those of the trade who
were the most opulent and the most prudent ; and
now that they were just emerging from those ddli.
culties, they were to be made the objca of a 'lax
which would inflid a most serious injury upon their
trade, and which he wished could have been drawn
from some other source. He should however take
an opportunity- in some future stage of the pro-
ceedings relative to this 'fax, of entering more
into the detail of the subjeti. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman had stated the amount of the
National Debt to be about 500,000,0001. It was
a melancholy refiedion, that more than one half of
that Debt had been incurred during the late on-
. happy War, in which not one object that had been
stated at the commencement had been obtained.
Peace had now taken place, and France was left
possessed of more power than the most absurd of
her partizans could have ventured to prediEt ; the
House of Bourbon was not upon the Throne ; the
House of Orange was deprived of its power ; and
Switzerland was in a situation very different to
that in which it was placed at the commencement
-of the 'War ; whilst England had gained nothing,
except the Islands of Ceylon and Trinidad. He
Was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman lay
down maxims of moderation, and that Foreign
Powers were no longer to be treated with inso-
lence or hauteur. If such a system of moderation
was pursued, he hesitated not to believe that this
Country possessed abundant resources. He hoped,
however, the predictions of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman would not prove equally fallacious with
those of his Predecessor, who in the year 1792,
when he opened his Budget, triumphed in the great
resources of the Country, and calculated upon a
continuance of Peace for fifteen years, when since
that period a nine years War had' taken place, and
in a great measure destroyed the resources of the
Country. He trusted the calculations of the Right
Hon. Gentleman (the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER) would be more truly fulfilled.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
it was not proposed to impose any Tax on the Stock
of Beer on hand, but he saw no ground why the
stock of Malt on hand should not be made an objet
of taxation. The Hon. Gentleman had stated a
material loss sustained by the Brewer's in the im-
portation of foreign Barley ; but it was impossible
lie could say any thing upon the subject at present,
upon a case so stated. The Hon. Gentleman had
stated, that at the close of the War none of the ob_
jeCis of that War had beets attained. He denied
the position.—They had attained the objects of the
War, as they had griined all that they had not lost.
It was the object cf those who had forced us into
the War, to attack Monarchy ; but the House had
given the strongest proof of its attachment to Mo-
narchy, by voting the payment of the debts of the
Civil List. What greater proof could be given of
the resources and confidence of the Country than the
Loan which he had just submitted to the House.—
With respect to the points brought forward by the
Hon. Gentleman relative to the Tax upon Malt
and Beer, there would be a future opportunity of
discussing them ; but he trusted this Tax would not
be considered as a Tax upon the Trade.
Mr. PITT spoke nearly to the following pnr_
port ;—" Sir, it will not be necessary for me to
trespass long upon the indulgence of the Commit-
tee, because there appears to be very little, and in.
deed I hardly think it possible that there should be
much, difference of opinion. But I wish to say a few
words, in consequence of what has fallen from the
Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, though perhaps
the Committee will agree with me in thinking,
that what has been said respecting me, can hardly
call for any animadversion on my part. The Hon.
Gentleman has referred rather inacurately, in my
opinion, to certain expressions which he suppases
one to have used in 179 z. But the tendency of the
language to which he aliudes was, an expression,
not only of my confident reliance, but of my earnest
hopes of the contiruance of Peace which we then
enjoyed. It is certainly tree, Sir, that at that
period there was not a man living in this king_
dom, who felt more his personal happiness en-
gaged in realizing that happy prosped which
then opened itself to this Country, than I did—
that prospect of the continued operation of our
increasing wealth, our increasing commerce, our
increasing resources, which had been the happy re-
sult of ten years of economy, of labour, of firm-
ness, and of wisdom, on the part of Parliament, in
their endeavours to cultivate the Arts of Peace, to
- augment the kevenue, and to ameliorate the con-
dition of the People of this Country, and which
they hoped to follow. up with no other task but
that of steadily reinforcing the Sinking Fund for
the diminution of the Public Debt, and of taking
off those Taxes which then pressed most heavi-
ly •upon the laborious part of the Community.—
Have I then, Sir, any very serious, any very
criminal charge to answer to, if with some de-
gree of fondness I did indulge the hope that
those distractions which then desolated France,
founded upon principles which I then thought, and
which every man must now admit, were directly con-
traryto those on which our happiness and prosperity
were grounded, contrary to that system on which our
excellent Constitution was founded, and contrarpto
the general sense of the People of this Country ?
Can I, Sir, I say, have any very serious or crimi-
nal charge to answer to, if under such circumstances
I did indulge a hope that -those blessings we then
enjoyed might not be. interrupted ? This hope I
was not singular in indulging ; it was a hope enter-
tained in common with me by metr who have some-
times been the objects of the obloquy, sometimes. of
the reverence of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite to
:ee, men who went beyond me in horror and de-
testation (if any men could go beyond me) of those
principles which were then disseminated in France,
but who certainly went beyond me in their opi-
nions of the measures by which those principles were
to be resisted and defeated—l allude, Sir, to the
late Mr. BURKE, and those who thought with him ;
he thought that France would, in a political sense,
become a blank in the Map of Europe ; that man,
whose great and prophetic mind had enabled him to
obtain a glimpse of those unexampled horrors and
crimes which have since desolated France; he
thought, that however dreadful those convulsions
might be to herself, they would present to Foreign
Countries nothing but weakness and imbecility,—

j If, Sir, at that moment I did entertain the opinion
which has been attributed to me, it is an error of
which now, upon reflection, I have no occasion to
repent, because it did not betray me into any disre-
gard of my duty. I cannot, however, but hope,
that the Hon. Gentleman (in some moment of can-
dour, when he refers again to this subjed) will find
in what he has now advanced against me as a charge,
something like an answer to those repeated calm.
nies which the Hon. Gentleman and his friends have
been in the habit of pouring forth against me (with-
out being aware of it, no doubt), insinuating that
I was insensible of the blessings of Peace, and
anxious to involve this Country in a war with
France. I certainly did not wish to trouble the
Committee with these observations, but the Hon.
Gentleman has driven me to it :—he has driven me
to recall to the recollection of the Committee the
task which was imposed upon me at that period, to
change from that system which I wished to pursue,
and to abandon those prospefts .which I hoped to
realize, by entering into a War with France, a
task by which I was. compelled, instead of being
the humble, but willing instrument for promoting
the beneficent views of His Majesty and of Parlia-
ment,• for promoting the happiness and prosperity
Of the People; which compelled me, I say, to aban-
don that system, to forego those hopes, and to use
those resources ,which were meant to augment the
advantages, and secure the blessings of Peace, for
the purpose of maintaining our independence, of
preserving our existence, of defending our honour,
and of meeting with, and contending against the
most gigantic system. of aggression that ever
threatened the overthrow of civilized society,
and the desolation of the world ; and which was
more particularly directed against this Country, its
charader and Constitution, as its peculiar viCtim..
There Were many who at that time were sanguine
enough to hope, that from the violence of the con-
, vulsion, its duration would be but short. My
hopes are, I confess, seldom among the least san-
guine ; but I trust that I never enter upon any
great work, trusting alone to my own hopes. But
from the beginning, I did state that whatever
might be the encouraging ground of hope which we
possessed, hopes which have been disappointed by,
events contrary to all human probability, and con-
, tradidory to every rational system of chancel
did, I say,- distindly state to the House, that it
was a contest on which we ought not to enter with..
out being fully convinced that we had no choice left,
without feeling, as my Right lion. Friend has truly
expressed it, that it was a contest in which we
should gain all that we could preserve.—That there
were moments during the contest, in which'we did
hope for more—that there were moments in which
we hoped to obtain, within the bounds of modera-
tion, indemnification, and additional security, I am
ready to confess, and these I contend were fit ob-
jects to be aimed ate—But if we obtained Peace,
with our Constitution entire—if it was left to us
here to exercise those honourable privileges which
we are now exercising—if it was left to us to dis-
cuss, as we are now doing, the extent of the re-
sources, and to review the elieds of the energy and
firmness of a great and powerful People—if we
had obtained this, we should have satisfied the mo_
tives which induced us to engage in this contest.—
Let me ask, after all that has passed this day,
whether the Heriourable Gentleman has any rea-
son triumphantly te exclaim, that this day has
seen the subversion of my solid System of
nance, as he calls it ? It does so happen, that
after many prophesies of the Hon. Gentleman and
his Friends, of the ruin of the Country ; nay, after
denunciations of actual ruin, when we were stared '
to be so irretrievably ruined as to justify the
Hon. Gentleman and his Friends in their opinion in
seceding from their Parliamentary duty ;- at a time
when many collateral and unfortunate events had
added to the calamities of the War, at a time when
there was a stoppage of the money payments at the
Bank, and when there appeared symptoms in the
British Navy inconsistent with the principles
and with the feelings which actuate hearts of
British Seamen—at that time it was, that a pro-
position was made to provide a large part of the
Supplies within the year. It was at that period,
Sir, when many of the great Patriots of this Coun-
try left this House, because their efforts could not
save their Country ; and if they suffered any occa-
sional call to bring them back to their duty, it was
only to obstruct the effeds of that solid System of
'Finance, but who considered the ruin of the Coun-
try as so irretrievable that they could not hold
forth their hands to save it : it was, I say, Sir, at
that period that I proposed this Plan of Finance,
and which, from the good sense, the zeal, and ge-
nuine charader of the Nation, and the firtneess of
Parliament, was adopted.—Undouhtedly, Sir, the
produce of that Tax has proved to be inferior to that
which, upon every ground of calculation I had in
my power,. I .was inclined to hope; but I have no
reason to believe that that deficiency rests so much
upon any great mistake in the calculations I then
made, as upon the difficulty of enforcing a principle
which no man has yet by any solid argument dis-
puted. From these circumstances, undoubtedly the
benefits of this plan were considerably diminished,
but does not this very circumstance prove still
stronger the excellence of the principle itself ? Do
we not remember the fears and despondency of the
Gentlemen on the other side of the House, their
wish to impress those fears upon the minds of those
who listened to them, and to make the calamities
which threatened the Country even greater than
they were ? But let me ask, even in the eye
of sober refledion, were not these difficulties con..
siderable ? when the Stocks were, I believe, un-
der 47—when the amount of the Loans were
so great, in consequence of the expence which
we were obliged to support,. arising from the cir-
cumstances or the times, and the nature of the
Contest we were forced to maintain—when the
hearts of many men sunk within them, though their
wishes, their hopes, and their principles remained
entire and sound ; if at that moment no groan had
escaped but for public,distress, the public difficul-
ties would not have been so great as they were.—
Since that time we have sustained four years of War,
with the necessity of extending our operations, with
our enemies multiplied, and with new objets of in-
ternal interest, colluded with our very existence,
with which we were bound to contend. Irk that

' very er;01 however, insteal of real;tztng those
desponding pi's.ied.;ons of tlee. Hon, Gest herein and
his Friends, we hsve gene on 'with,
sour, both in our i'itu and our Commet cc, not-
withstanding the great and lamentable ref ore up-
on the People—a pressure, however, intieh more
augmented by the uefavourahle nature of the sea.
:lens, than it was by political causes. Notwith-
standing all these circumsraoccs, I say, we have
gone on for the last four years, increasing in wealth
and prosperity throughout all the differeet classes
of individuals that compose the Communite.—
We come now, Sir, to the Peace, the discus..
sions respeding which have been inevitably pro_
traded to suet a length as to render Lhe eh;.
peaces of this year equal to a year of War, and lo
this first year of Peace, at the end of nine years of
a War unexampled in its nature and esecor, we
make a Loan for .25,03°,0c:0h at the very same
price of Stocks at which, in the first year of the
War in 1793, with all the accumulating resoerees
of ten years of Peace, we made a Loan for only Four
Millions. I think, therefore, the Hoe. Gentleman
might have chosen some other day td call upon me
to do penance, and to admit the destruction of that
solid System of Finance.—l beg pardon of the Corn.
mittee—l could not suppress my personal feelings
upon this occasion; but from the part I have taken
in public events, I trust they are also public feel_
! ings, in which every friend to his Country, in' and
out of this House, will participate with me.
[Here Mr. GREY, supposing Mr. PI TT had sae
down, rose to address the Committee.]—" Str, I do
not wonder, after what I have stated, that the
Hon. Gentleman thinks I have said enough, and
ought to sit down."
Mr. PITT then said, he would trouble the Corn..
mittee with but a few words more, in answer to
some other parts of the Honourable Gentleman's
speech, particularly upon that article in the Ways
and Means which had called up the Honourable
Gentleman, viz. the Tax upon Beer. That Ho-
nourable Gentleman, as well as every body else,
was entitled to peculiar favour and attention from
the Committee, when. he was arguing in favour of
the interests of any set of individuals ; but it did
appear to him that the Hon. Gentleman was mis.
taken in the ground upon which he rested his ap-
peal to the Committee. If this proposed Tax npon
Beer was in its nature bad, it ought to be given ep;
but ought certainly not he made up by a fax upon
Malt, which could not relieve the Brewers, except
by extinguishing the Private Breweries; and thereby
giving to the Public Brewers a monopoly of the
frade. The Hon. Gentleman supposed he was
making a strong appeal to the Committee when he
stated the different prices of Malt indifferent teats;
but he had omitted to state how many barrels of
beer might be made from a bushel of malt. If his
recolleCtion was right upon this subject, a bu,hel
would make three barrels and a quarter, or three
and a half, and even sometimes three and three
fourths p but in the latter case, he believed, not
much to the benefit of those ‘vho drink ir. At the
period when the Brewers raised their prices, he be_
lieved they were justified in so doing ; but he
thought, that previous to that period their profits
were such as ought to have prevented them from he-
ill in haste to complain, if sometimes their profits
sunk below the common rate of mercantile gain ;
and certainly when the price of Corn tele they
must have been reimbursed in a•considerabie de_
gree for their previous loss. He. wished not
to be supposed to bring any eheirge against the
persons in that trade ; they were certainly a •
most respedable body of men ; nor was he anxi-
ous to enter into this discussion ; but he thought
it a duty he owed to the Public, to state thus math :
and if there was really any thing in the statement of
his Right Hon. Friend, about which he entertained
a doubt, it was, that he had gone too far in miti-
gating the Tax in favour of the Brewers. He hoped
the subject would be brought to a full discussion :
he wished that the scale should preponderate ie fie.
your of the Brewer, but sit the same t tine he did not
wish to transfer into the pockets of individua:s any
considerable portion of that which was available for
public purposes. He would not at present trouble the
Committee any ledger, exsept with a very few words
upon one point, :find that was, what had fallen from
his Right Hon. Friend respoeSting the modification
cf the Sinking. Fund. 'ilicre was no man who could
look with more jealousy than he did, npon any thing
that appeared like a deviazion from the System upon
which that Fund was esteblished. When the Plan
of his Right Hon. Friend came to be examined, if
it was found to break in npon the final effets and
substantial merits of the System of the Sinking
Fund, it would be mach better at once to provide
9oosoool. in Taxes, than to suffer a deviation from
that System, to the operation of which, next to the
firmness of Parliament and the Country, he really
believed we owed the situation in which we now
stood. He however thought it right to say, that
from the best consideNuion he could give the
subjeel, he thought the plan now proposed was
not only perfedly consistent with the System
on which the Sinking Fund was established, but
would prove a great reinforcement to that Fund.
The proposal seemed to him to be attended with
no inconvenience, but offered an additional aid
to the Sinking Fund; which, after reede:ing all
the direct benefits which the Public had derived
from it during sixteen years, now presented the
means of deriving out of it a cotta teed aid by
which a great public burthen would be saved. It
was at once the fruit and the test of the Resources
and the perseverance of the Country.
_ _

Mr. BURDON made, a few observations re-
lative to the Shipping Interest, which he, thought
would be materially injured by the Duty proposed
by the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER upOn
Tonnage, and Exports and Imports. He thought
no inference could he drawn in thE case from the pro.
duce of the Convoy Tax, at a period when France
and Holland were unable to •enter into competition
with us. He hoped, however, that time wonld be
given for all the parties interested in this Tax to
make those statements and representations to the
House which the,subjed required, in order that it
might be fairly discussed.
The C HAAVC.ELLUR of the EXCHEQUER said,
be did not' mean' to submit any Resolution to the
Committee that night, as the documents relative
to it would not be ready till We:lnesday. I.t was