The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-20 00:00:00

age, and required the performance of no duties. As to the
rectory of Hayes, from that the Rev. Mr. Dawson derived no
profit whatever, not being himself the incumbent, having given
it to another clergyman without fee or reward. With respect
to the next living of Down, that stood in the same situation,
and the error into which the parish of Allhallows had fallen
was, that they had discovered in a publication, which might be
called the Clerical Court Calendar, but which was published
without any authority, the name of Mr. Dawson attached to
these different livings.
Mr. GROTE said, that with reference to the living
of Down he was quite convinced that the Rev. Mr. Dawson
was not the incumbent, and being so he had made no statement
to the House with respect to it.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS was happy to hear the statement
of the Hon. Member, and begged pardon of the House for
having adverted to that subject. With respect to the right of
the Rev. Gentleman to hold a stall at Canterbury, if there was
any blame attached to that it arose from the state of the law.—
(Hear, hear.) The House might correct that law if it pleased
—(Hear, hoar]—but until it was corrected no blame could be
attached to Mr. Dawson.—(Hear, hear, hear.) By the
law as it at present stood there was no power to limit
the holding of livings within the distance of Allhallows and
Chislehurst, and such being the case, he (Sir. R. Inglis) felt
confident the House would agree with him in stating that
nothing unfair had taken place on the part of Mr. Dawson,
and that no blame attached to him for retaining the livings he
then held. When the subject of pluralities came before the
House in a more formal shape, he would state his opinions
more fully on the subject.—(Hear.)
Mr. F. O'CONNOR considered that the Members on that
side of the House, who had done all in their power to put an
end to the tithe system, had great rcason to congratulate
themselves upon the petition that had been presented by one of
the Hon. Members for the City, and for the clear and lucid
statements he had made in presenting it.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) Those statements, in his opinion, did not differ
from those made by an Honourable Baronet last night.
He was aware that there were many instances in which cler-
gymen were non-resident, because there was no occasion for a
clergyman. He was happy, or he should rather say unhappy
enough, to be able to state a case perfectly analogous to that
which had been mentioned by the Hon. Member. His was an
English case, and that which he (Mr. O'Connor) had to state,
was an Irish one. He was satisfied that when he had stated it,
and asserted that there were many of a similar nature, he was
sure the Irish people would receive the sympathy of their
English neighbours, and that they were fully justified in their
outcry against tithes.—(Hear, hear.) In the parish where he
(Mr. O'Connor) resided, upwards of 150,0001. had been taken
from the people for the support of the Church, and the oldest
man in it could not recollect that he had ever seen a Protestant
clergyman,.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The curate also resided
out of the parish—the clerk lived fourteen miles from the
church, and it was but a very short time since a vestry had
been called to increase the clerk's salary, in consequence of his
living so far from the church ; and, to crown all, the sexton
kept an improper house at the church door, and sold whisky
without license.—(Hear, and laughter.) He asked the House,
did not such cases justify them in the part they had taken
against tithes ? He thought these discussions were most whole-
scroe—that these by-battles were of great service to the clues-
_

tion, particularly as they were on the eve of the great battle
which was to be fought to-night, and as this would therefore be
the last skirmish. To-night the fate of Ireland was to be de-
cided. They had been promised the support of the English Mem-
bers, and he was satisfied they would not be disappointed. He
saw an increasing desire on their part to take the footstool
of agitation from under the Irish Members—(Hear, hear).—
and he was convinced that the English Members would rally
round them—that they would say to the Irish Members, if
they were still agitators—if they still persevered in disturbing
the peace of the country, they did it from bad and interested
motives.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the Irish pet pie would
not have the sanction of a vote of the English Members for a
perseverance in their agitation.— (Hear, hear.) He had said
more than he had intended, and, perhaps, if the Right Hon.
the Paymaster of the Forces were present, he would say that
he (Mr. O'Connor) had been showing off some of his " frothy
declamation." In conclusion, he congratulated the House
upon the presentation of the petition, and the manner in which

it had been presented.
Mr. HARDY could not but admit, as an unworthy member
of the same church to which the Hon. Member belonged, that
the Church of England was suffering under acts such as these
which the petition detailed. It was no consolation that the in-
habitants of Allhallows had been told that the Clergyman was a
most upright and exemplary man ; that was the more tanta-
lizing to them, as they could not, therefore, obtain his spiritual
advice and assistance. If they were aware that he could con.
duce so much tc their spiritual welfare, and that they never saw
him, they were the more to be pitied. He did not think that
the Hon. Member for the University of Oxford had fully an-
swered the observations that had fallen from the Hon. Member
for Staffordshire. He understood that the parish in question was
fully able to support a Clergyman, and it was therefore an ad-
ditional hardship that they should be deprived of the benefit of his
advice. It was unnecessary to say to what extent the system of plu-
ralities had gone; it was no longer said, when a Clergyman
was presented to a parish, that he had got a cure of souls, but
that he had got a living. It was not that he had got a commis-
sion to instruct the people in those things that would be most
conducive to their salvation, but that he had got the means of
supporting himself and his family.—(Hear, hear.) It was of
the disposal of livings in this way that the Church of England
complained, and which would probably occasion her to die of a
plethora.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He was astonished when he
found complaints of this nature so numerous, that so respect-
able a body as the Dean and Chapter of Canterbury would con-
tinue to dispose of livings in this manner. He trusted that ere

long his Majesty's Ministers would be prepared to bring in some
measure which would put an end to pluralities and non-resi-
dence, and give to every parish the benefit of a resident clergy.
man.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir H. VERNEY hoped that a full and efficient church re..

form would take place shortly, and that it would not be post-
poned till the return of the value of parishes in England and
Wales, which was ordered, should come in.
Mr. GROTE congratulated the House on the unanimity
which seemed to prevail on the subject of the petition which he
had laid before them. As a question had been raised concern-

ing the emoluments and the capability of the parish to support
an incumbent, he would state that it was perfectly adequate to
it moreover, there was a good parsonage-house, which the
rector was in the practice of letting at 601. per annum. ,

Mr. CLAY presented a petition from Hackney against the
employment of children in the sweeping of chimneys. He
thought it unnecessary to enlarge upon this subject, especially
at the present moment. The miserable condition of the chil-
dren was sufficient to enlist all the feelings of humanity on
their side. Persons were not anxious to contemplate this
subject, because it was too painful to dwell on, and they were
desirous that any thing might avert their thoughts from it.
The subject in his mind was not paid sufficient attention to ;
many circumstances:contributed to produce that inattention on
the public part ; one was the erroneous supposition that there
was no remedy, and the other perhaps was the all-absorbing
question of Negro Emancipation. He hoped it would come
under public consideration, and receive that degree of atten-
tion it merited.
Mr. CLAY likewise presented a petition from the parish of
St. Leonard's, Shoreditch, against the house and window tax.
After the intimation of Lord Althorp on this subject, he con-
sidered it at first unnecessary to urge those petitions on the at.
tention of the House; but, on a second thought, it occurred to
him that the presentation of petitions would strengthen and
insure the success of the Bill about to be introduced by the
Noble Lord. Mr. Clay also presented a petition from the mer-
chants and shipowners of the port of London. They com-
plained that the Corporation of the Trinity House was
too close and inaccessible to the inquiries of the com-
missioners appointed to investigate corporate affairs.—(Hear.)
He did not guarantee the truth of all the statements of the
petitioners, but the subject of the petition was one of consider-
able importance to the shipping interest. He would not now
move that it be referred to the existing Committee upon the
lighthouses, because he thought that it comprehended subjects
which he believed did not come within the scope of the duties
of that Committee. If at any future time it should appear
that the petition could go before the Committee, he would
then move that it be referred to that tribunal. •
Mr. PLUMPTRE supported the prayer of the petition, and
said he had had occasion to complain of the conduct of the
Corporation of the Trinity House. That Corporation, it ap-
resented a petition from(as twali.es
unVdiecrasrtoaodnd
peared, received very large sums of money without giving any
cpastle..on-Tyne, in favour of a measure to
public account of their expenditure.
years,he
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theers
since
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entered
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Mr: SHAWE presented a petition from the owners and oc-
cupiers
praying for the abolition of the duty on malt.
Clergymen
H
for the ILaEstA4OC
he had a statement in his possession, by chick he could prove
that the average price of wheat was now less than it had been
into a statement, in order to prove that 3
the average price had been 10s. less than for many years pre-
viously. The Hon. Member proceeded at some length, but
in so low a tone
that he was quite inaudible in the gallery.
An Hos:. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, stated
that there could be no question of the present low price of corn.
The petition related to the malt-tax, as one of the burdens
which pressed peculiarly upon the agricultural interest, and it
became the Government to consider whether immediate steps
should not be taken to remove it.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that he would say one word upon
this subject. It was his duty to take notice of it, on account
of the great difference of opinion upon this subject amongst
those with whom he generally acted.—(Hear, hear.) It was
supposed that Ireland derived a great benefit from the
corn laws. This was not his opinion, and if it were, the prin-
ciple applicable to these laws would induce him, for the sake of
giving cheap human food to the poorer classes, to desire their
repeal. The question was, whether they were to have cheap
bread—whether the family which now had but one loaf was to
have two loaves ? When the question thus presented itself to
his mind, upon the same principle that he disregarded the
rights of private property in abolishing slavery, he, for one,
had no notion of balancing the interests of the landlords against
those of the poor, and he would further support any Bill which
would make bread cheap to the labouring classes. But in his
judgment the agricultural interests would be benefited by the
repeal of the corn laws, as they would be better supported by
the manufacturing classes, and the corn fields would be turned
into gardens. But whatever would be the result, any plan to
make food cheaper for the poor would have his decided sup..
port. He would gladly relieve the landowner by annihilating
two-third* of the tithes, by repealing the malt tax, and the talk