The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-18 00:00:00

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tacked; and he was in a condition to inform the House,
that
a in the first year in which that Right Rev. Preis.le
ad ben appoin ed to his see, he had made a sacrifice
9t 10 per cenr. of ilia value of the see. He considered
it of great importance, should her Majesty's Govern.
meet appoint flee commission, that they should not act
04 the suggestion which had been thrown Out, that the
biahops were the mere creatures" of the State. He
denied that. The bishops were the oldest estate in the
r,ealtn—their property was the oldest, and the House, in
"alieg with it, should deal wi' h it considerately, and
not on the suggestion that they were mere "creatures
!If the State' —s suggestion which was as unconsti-
tutional in its authority as it was unjustifiable.
Mr. AGLIONBY considered that it was for the in-
lereat of all parties that where such charges
ad been made against the bishops, those charges
should be substantiatid or refuted. It had been said
that the bishops had a legal and equitable right to the
Property derivable from their sees.—(Hoar, hear.) Now,
his colleaene ( Hersman) had not denied that they
hal---('` Hear, hear," from Mr. Ilorsman)—but he (Mr.
Aglionby) was quite sure that no one would say they ad
a moral right to it.—(llear, hear.) It had been said
that his lion. Colleagai? was infl.a-nced in his state-
ments on this question by an unfri-ndly feeling towards
the BWiop or Gloucester. But that was not the case.
Ills son. Friend was kfiuenced in his charges, not
aetainst the ftehop of Glouc,,ster as a s indivicla3l, but
Os public grounds; and he (Ur. Aglionbj) had no doubt
w
that this as only the coalm4aceineut of a series of such
charges.
Mr. WAWN was sorry that men so high in office
should be the objects of such chsrges; but thought that
a kir inquiry aught to be instituted into the whole
tihji.et. _ .

Mr. MANGLES called upon the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Ripon (Sir J. Graham) to answer a
question which had been put to him in such plain terms.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was ready to answer any
question which might be put by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman as to whether he had declared that the
Bishop of Gloucester was under any moral obligation
not to renew his lease. He would read the resolution to
Which be was a party, and which was ex'racted from
„the minutes of the proceedings of the Ecclesiastical
Commission. lie had, however, thought the time,to dis-
cuss this question would have been when the Hon.
Member fur Cockermouth should move for the papers,
or after the papers were presented to the House. The
resolution was to the effect that the Bishop of Gloucester
and Bristol being under no obligation, legally and mo-
rally, to deal with this manor otherwise than with any
other estate within the see, the Commissioners directed
their secretary to communicate their wish that the
Matter should be brought to a close as soon as possible.
The House would permit him to say that having formed
an opinion that the Bishop had a legal and equitable
right to fill up the lease, did offer liberal terms far be-
low the market price.
Mr. REYNOLDS referred to a concordat between the
Pope of Rome and the Sovereign of Spain by which the
incomes of the archbishops in that " most Catholic
country" were limited to 1,6001. and 1,4001. a year, the
income of the suffragan bishops being soul. a year, and
he suggested that in the case of the Established Church
we should follow out or adopt the same scale!
After a few words from Mr. T. B. LENNARD, the
muter dropped.
SUP L'LY —CONSULAR ESTABLISHMENTS.
The House went into Committee of Supply, Mr. BER-
NAL in the chair.
On the first vote being put, that a sum not exceeding
148,490/ be granted to her Majesty to defray the charge
of tieusular establishments abroad,
Mr. URQUHART roes to pr ,pose the reduction of
this vote by a sum of 4.0001. The Hon. Gentleman's
speech was scarcely audible at intervals, from the impa-
tience which was evinced the House He referred to
the answer given by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Pal-
merwon) in reply to a question put to him by the Com-
mittee which had been appointed to inquire into the sale-
ties of consuls, &c. The Noble Lord was asked whether
those who were appointed consuls were obliged to be in-
formed in respect to the laws of the countries in which
they were, located? The Noble Lord said they wore under
neehligation to be cocnisant of the laws of such foreign
countries. When asked whether they were under any
Obligation to have a good knowledge of the laws of Eng-
land, the Noble Lord replied they ought to have. Now
he (Mr. Urquhart) believed our consular establishments
tcehe most defective. He had had some experience, and
a more disorganised, more irregular, more disqualifying
system for the performance of the office he could not
Imagine. There was no progressive education in the
service as in the case of the military and naval services.
On the contrary, the French colonial system was well
organised, and those who were appointed to these offices
Mast possess local knowledge, and passed through a
course of examination. The on. Gentleman proceeded
to analyse the whole list of consuls, and the salaries
attached t 3 each, proposing reductions in a number of
eases making the amount in the total cost to the country
4,0001. less.
On the question being *put, that the amount to be
Panted (148,4901) be reduced by a sum of 4,000/,
Lord YALMERS roN said that the Hon. Gentleman
and himself had different notions in regard to various
topics on which he had spoken. The Hon. Gentleman
thought that our consular establishments were ill-or-
ganised and unequal to the consular establishments of
other countries. Now he (Lord Palmerston) was, per-
haps. better qualified to speak to that point than the lion.
Gentleman. He knew more of the manner in which our
consular agents discharged their duties, and he ventured
to say, without hesitation, that no consular establish-
ments were better regulated than those of Great Bri-
rn, and, however well corresponding establishments of
ranee might be regulated, he was quite sure that any
one who had held his office would say that the duties of
°Ur consular agents were discharged in the most
efficient manner. Our consulate was the most efficient,
he believed, which existed. The chives of consuls were
earious—they had to perform duties in regard to cotn-
, tnercial matters, and in collecting valuable information,
Which was transmitted from time to time to his office
and to the Board of Trade, and he would venture to say
that, in point of efficiency and ability, our consular es-
tablishments, instead of censure, were deserving of the
highest approbation. With regard to the various ap-
pointments to which the Hon. Gentleman bad referred,
the first and foremost was that of a person who had had
the misfortune in another country to have a li.tle differ-
ence with the Hon. Member, and that perhaps had in-
fluenced him in his wish to reduce the gentleman's
aelatY. But with regard to the appointment of the con-
sul M Warsaw. he was sure that any one who knew the
scale of expenditure for living in Warsaw for an indivi-
must holding the rank of a gentleman, representing a
Country like this, and compared his salary with that of
corresponding officers of other countries, they would
lee that the salary given (1,0001.) was rather below that
Which his position required. Tee Hon. Gentleman said
tn°- " You have a consul with only 1001. a year io Paris,
and why do you give a high salary to a consul in War-
saw?" The answer was this. In Paris the consul was
merely a person svho bad to fulfil subordinate duties to the
ensbassador. Be (Lord Palm-rston) bad given him
the rank of counsel in order that he might perform
cer-
tain duties of routine, but he did not receive his instruc-
tions from the Secretary of State. With regard to the
consuls in Wallechia, Servia, and Muldavis, all had du-
ties t;, perform which were more of a political than a
purely commercial nature, and the parts of the world in
Which they were established included countries of great
Intsrest and countries in which it was most important to
have persons who could give information, both political
and commercial. Now it had happened that one of their
he e`ucers was absent o a articular occasion ill-
tte
- but it was not to be expected that becausefrom a man
Was a consul he should never have leave of absence.
AThen as to consul-general at Constantinople, the Hon.
Zzentleman said that he ought to have his salary reduce'',
ueeause he (Lord Palmersten) had intended to abolish
the, office. Now he, being at the time in that state of
misinformation in which the Honourable Member ap-
pl)etred to be, did entertain such an idea; but when he
fliwhich attached to the office he
found the importance
thought it was perfectly right to continue it. But if
they were to have consuls-general, with important du-
Ta the required
duties
ties, commercial as well as judicial, to discharge, such
as it was known the consuls to
t moreurkey t
h svner e
to discharge, the salary
and respousibilities were entitled to. With regard
to the consul at Smyrna, the Honourable Gentle..
man said 6001. a year was sufficient, instead of 8004
and that as the Special Committee on official salaries
recommended 5,0001. as the salary for an ambassador,
500/. would be enough for a consul. Therefore, without
reference to circumstances, the Hon. Gentleman pro-
posed 500/. He could not consent to adopt the arbitrary

dictum of the Hon. Gentleman. With regard to
consul-general in Egypt, the Hon. Gentleman observed,the
" You abolished the ofri •e of consul-general in Syria."
But that was an appointment which was made after the
campaign in 1841. At that period he thought it im-
portant to have a person who was not merely a commer:
(dal, but a political character, of the rank of consul
general; but he thought that the same reasons no longer
existed for the continuance of that office, and he took
advantage of these facts and abolished the one office,
thus saving several hundreds a year to the country, by
aPpointing the party as consul-general at Constanti-
nople. Egypt stood in a different position to that of
Syria. The former was governed by Paellas, whose
rights were hereditary. The Pacha received a fixed tri-
bute and was subject to the Sultan. He administered
to the local arrangements of his province, and to a
certain degree was governor in chief of the province
over which he was Pacha. The consul general had
duties there to perform both political and commercial.
lieypt being a great thoroughfare for English travellers
Passing to and fro between India and this country, there
were imposed upon the consul-general there hospitali-
ties which trenched greatly upon his income. In re-
kard to Tripoli he (Lord Palmerston) intended to abolish
that offici... The proposal before the Treasury tor its
abolition was only wahine. for the receipt of information
us to the length of services of the consul and other facts
connected therewith. He was quite of opinion that,
considering the condition in which that
/slice was, an
("Ine.rY consul was sufficient for the discharge of the
duties required. In regard to c !nbuls general of South
America, it was well known that their duties were diplo-
ue and ai well as commercial. The lion. Mem-
ber asked why a higher salary should be given to the con-
-I.llvl- general of Monte Video than that of Buenos Ayres.
hey,
latter Place, and the duties were conseqeently consider-
:ll)ly lighter upon the consul-general. But so far from
cotoul-geueral at Venezuela being inefficient, as ho
thhupposed he (Lord Palmerston) could as.ure him that
atg9sitlernan had rendered most valuable and jasper.
services in dealing with the Government of that
Waco
merchants, aco upon a matter
of great importance to the
There was a law enacted there
by which the Government of Veuezu, la endeavoured to
cull
seate the property of British merchants;
nut, by an arrangement of the consul-general,
%-t
_2unded, of course, upon the instructions of his own
overtunent, he was enabled to place the matter upon