The Sun.
London, England, 1834-12-06 00:00:00

those who reform willingly and upon principle, and those
who reform merely from expediency and. upon compulsion.
—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, after the elections which took
place according to the Reform Act, many very serious
questions demanded an instant and immediate decision.
But, gentlemen, it was to be expected and did folldw, that.
while these questions were going through Parliament, that
other questions in which the people took a great interest
did not receive the attention which they demanded ; and
among these questions I certainly put one of the foremost,
that question which has been already alluded to—namely,
the question of tithes in this country.—( Hear, hear.) Gen-
tlemen, this however is a question upon which, more pecu-
liarly than upon any other, except, indeed, that of the Irish
Church, our course has been surrounded by difficulties. It was
the principle of Lord Grey's Government to carry into effect
as many reforms as they could with the concurrence of all
the branches of the Legislature—(hear, hear), that is, to
say, not unnecessarily to bring before Parliament, and pass
through the. House of Commons, measures which would
only go into the House of Lords to meet with certain de-
feat.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, among the various pro-
positions made with regard to tithes, there was one, and
more than one, which, on being submitted to the heads of
the Church, they declared should have their opposition in
the House of Lords—(Hear, hear)—conteiving they were
injurious to their interests. We did not think they were
injurious, but we thought it was useless to force through
the House of Commons a measure which would have been
defeated in the House of Lords.—(Hear, hear.) Gentle..
men, I held throughout this subject, and stated it to some
of my colleagues—l still hold the opinion, that this ques-
tion, involving so many conflicting interests as it does, would
would best reach a settlement, by being referred in the first
place to a select committeee of the House of Commons, on
which all those persons who represent counties, where tithe
is complained of, should be placed. A Bill upon this sub-
ject was indeed brought before the House of Commons last
session ; but till it had undergone discussion there, I think
it could not have been considered mature. For this purpose
a deputation was sent from the various counties, and
among others from this.—(Cheers.) I was present with
Lord Althorp at an interview with that deputation ; Mr.
Watson (of Dorsley), who is at the bottom of the
table, was one of this deputation. They stated their ob-
jections, and after they had left us, my Lord Althorp told
me that he would take into consideration those objections,
and would endeavour to obviate them. I had hoped the
country would have had the benefit of those deliberations.
—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Gentlemen, that was one of
the questions that would have been brought before the
House of Commons in the next session, if the late Ministry
had continued in office. There was another measure which
Lord Althorp had pledged himself to in the House of
Commons.--(Cheers.) There was the question of Cor-
poration Reform—(Cheers)—and I think that no one can
doubt, that of all abuses, the abuses of the Corporations
called most loudly for redress.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen,
there were measures upon this and other subjects which
were in contemplation, but certainly had never been
matured, when Lord Melbourne was informed that the
King would dispense with the services of his then Ministry.
—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, it is impossible for me to
enter fully into that subject. This I will ny, it is impossible
for Ministers to receive more personal kindness from a
Sovereign than the late Ministers received from the King.
I must likewise say that I have no doubt that the change
has been made with a view to the welfare of the country.—
(Hear, hear, and strong expressions of dissent.) But,
Gentlemen, although I cannot enter into the explanation,
and do not know that I should be able if I would—

Mr. IL WATSON, vice-president, now rose and apolo-
gized for interrupting his Lordship. He had received a
note, through the window (it being impossible for any one
to get at the worthy vice-president through the door, on ac-
count of the crowded state of the room), from J. C. Jack-
son, Esq., of Ash, to the following effect :—" My dear sir,
—There is a vast number of the yeomanry outside, who
cannot possibly get into the room to hear Lord John Rus-
sell ; will you be good enough to request the Noble Lord
to come forward to .the window, and address them there-
from ?—J. C. JACKSON." The Hon. Chairman said it
would be quite impossible for the Noble Lord to make
himself heard from the window now ; and with this expla-
nation, which was communicated to the yeomanry outside,
they were satisfied. The Noble Lord, however, said he
would address the gentlemen outside, when he had finished
the few observations he was then making.
' Lord JOHN RUSSELL--Gentlemen,-I was about to say
that, although it is impossible for me, in the situation in
which I stand, to enter into the causes of the dissolution of
the late Ministry, yet I must deny, peremptorily, and at
once, some of the causes which have been assigned for that
dissolution.—Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, it has been said
that some plan was in preparation upon the Irish Church,
with regard to which Ministers differed ; and it has been
stated—aye, asses tion has even gone so far as this—
that I had prepar,3d a plan which was of such a na-
ture, that Lord Lansdowne, and Mr. Spring Rice, and I
think Lord Auckland, could not agree to it.—(Hear; hear.)
Gentlemen, this statement is altogether false.—(Cheers.)
No doubt I have my opinions with respect to the Irish
Church, which I have stated' in Parliament ; and it is still
my conviction that the Protestant faith would be better
taught in Ireland, and the Ir3sa Church be more truly
supported, if the notions which I entertain were adopted,
than if the Church were left in its present situa-
tion, with many of the benefices in that country entirely
sinecures.—(Hear, hear.) But, gentlemen, I had prepared
no plan upon the subject. There was a plan, which had
not been submitted to the Cabinet, which had not been
matured ; and I can say this farther, that although no
Cabinet had been held in which a plan for the Irish Church
Reform had been discussed and settled, yet there was every
prospect that the Cabinet would have come to an unani-
mous decision upon such a plan.—(Cheers.) I can like-
wise declare, that in all the conversations I have had with
Members of the Cabinet, especially with Lord Lansdowne
and Mr. Spring Rice, there was no practical difference be-
tween us as to the measure which should be adopted.—
(Continued cheers.) I say, therefore, gentlemen, the Go-
vernment was not dissolved because any plan was traced
and matured of what is called a " sacrilegious " nature, (for
this is the word they used ; and as they apply the term
" confiscation " to State reform—(a laugh)—so they apply
the word " sacrilegious" to Church reform)—(Hear, hear)
—or because such plan had received the assent of the
Cabinet. And I likewise declare that it is quite untrue
that there was any practical difference between those Mem-
bers of the Cabinet who have been mentioned and myself.
—(Reiterated cheers.) Gentlemen, 1 will not say that in
the course of our discussions upon that plan or that subject,
or some other subject, that some difference might not have
arisen ; it is impossible that any one can say—and I should
deceive you if I were to say otherwise—it is impossible that
differences may not arise in a Cabinet consisting of some
fourteen persons.—(Hear.) For instance, let us imagine
a Cabinet in which Sir Robert Peel and the Marquis
of Chandos might be engaged ; the Marquis of Chandos
having voted for a repeal of the Malt-tax, and Sir Robert
Peel against it. I mention this to show the difficulty, or
rather the impossibility, of a Cabinet in which there shall
be no differences upon any subject ; yet that is no reason
why, on the measure to be submitted to Parliament, the
Cabinet might not be unanimous—(Cheers)—and at no
time was there the prospect of more unanimity than when
the Cabinet was dissolved.—(Continued cheers.) Gentle-
men, we have no reason to complain, if we aro no longer
the constitutional advisers of his Majesty ; but we, and the
p,:ople of England will have occasion to complain, if we,
and the people of England, being anxious for a reform in
the Corporations of England, and a reform in the Church
of England, and in the Church of Ireland.—(Cheers.)---
I say we shall have reason to complain if those who
were old, and real, and sincere Reformers, are replaced
by those who were sham, unreal, and new Reformers.—
Hear, long-continued cheers, and cries of " No, never.")
Gentlemen, I confess to you I should look upon suds
a Cabinet with the greatest distrust.—(Hear, hear.) But
gentlemen, it is impossible for us to say whether the