The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-05 00:00:00

CIaIIROH-RATES ABOLITION BILL.

Sir W. CLAY proposed the second reading of this
bill, which wag, except in one particular, the same as
that he introduced last session, and which was read a
second time. This was a question bearing more on civil
and religious liberty than on the amount of pecuniary
relief involved. After referring to his former arguments
in support of the bill of last session, he said he thought the
arguments in favour and against it had been exhauste I,
and that it was bey nd the reach of human intellect
.to
discover anything new to be said upon it. The receut
decision in the House of Lords in the Braintree eve)
had altered the aspect of this question by deciding that
a good rate could only be made by the consent of a ma-
jority of the rate-payers. The law wag, therefore, vir-
tually abolished, and in many towns since that decision
a church-rate had been refused. In m4ny places the rate
was submitted to, but sooner or later the levying of a
rate in those places would be contested, and those ill-
feelings and heart-burn ings that bad existed in other places
would be the inevitable conoierpience. From a return of
238 rural parishes, he found that in 100 Vie rate was
opposed, and in 123 it wascarries'. Out of that num-
ber, in 99 cases the payment of the rate was refused.
In .4j9 instances where a rate was levied. only 23
places submitted to it, and 14 p'aces where it was en-
*eel Therefore, out of 99 places where rates had
been agreed to, there were only 47 places where the
rate had been really paid. 'I he hon. member then
alluded to what had been attempted for a change of
the law, and said that he was right in assuming that
there was a large portion of the people who considered
she levying at church rates an irjustice, and a con-
viction in the minds of all that the :am could net
remain in its proient state. He considered the
change propOsed by the Lill of the Marquis. of
Blandford, and also those by convocation, neither of
which he thaught would have the desi7ed effect, and
said, that nothing woul.l satiety the public hut the abo-
lition of church rates. Having
,referred to the heads of
the biih he said that the cry raiQed of the Church of
Eng'and being the national Church he looked upon a'
idle words, because that Chnrch was not empowered,
in a national entice, in any way to levy a t.ix on those
who differed from her. It was not a national Church
in the sense of the wer I that there was no other Church
in the ,:nintry. If he 'Cloveinuient admitted of no ether
form of religion it would justify the Church in deriving her
revenue be forc,s from all time who were not her mem-
bers, bet not otherwise. The Church of England was
a great and venerable institution of the country— dear
to the people for many reasons, and she had been re-
spected through many axes. The hoe, member next
proceeded to remark on the statements of the opponents
of the bill, that if the church rate were abolished, there
would be no means of keeping up the fabrics,
which he combated, and read a statement show-
ing the ' largo sums that had been spent in
iittilding churches from the voluntary contributions of
her Met-ahem The Church of England was one of the
richest eccle-iestical corporations in existence, and pro-
bably her members were the richest ease of any. If the
members of that church could not maintain the fabrics
that had been handed down to them by their forefathers,
by contributinz a small BUM to maintain them, but must
force a paltry contribution from those who never entered
within the walls of that Church, then, Churchman as he
was, he felt that the Church of England was unworthy
to exist, if she had but so slight a hold on the feelings
and affections of the people. (Hear.) The hon. gentle-
man referred to the opinion of Lord Jahn Russell on
church rates, which he enunciated in . a speech last
session, and in which he expressed his fears that an
injury would be done to the Church by the abolition
of church rates, and cautioned the house against any
great changes. He (Mr. Clay) thought these words
of caution were unnecessary, because they had been
used en all occasions whtn any great change was
about to be made, such as during the discussion of
the repeal of the Test and Corporation Act,
Catholic emancipation, free trade, &c , yet the
constitution never rested on a firmer basis than now,
nor was the country ever more prosperous. (Hear,
hear.)
The motion having been seconded,
Lord .1. MANNERS moved the second reading that
day six months. He considered the bill before the
house did not merit the approbation and support of the
house for the remedy of the grievance complained of,
and he based his opposition to it upon the fullest and
broadest acknowledgment of the grievance that had been
stated to exist by the hon. mover of the second reading
of the bill. There was nothing in the bill or the
preamble making reference to the grievance complained
of, whilst its enacting powers would impose a real
grievance on all churchmen. , (Hear.) The bill pro-
posed to make provisiOn in lieu of church rates, and lie
took provision to mean something that should exist ;
but it was impassible to call voluntary contributions a
thing on which to depend. The grievance complained
of in the continuance of this law was no greater, if so
great, than that which existed in reference to the
support of the other institutions of the country.
The noble lord then examined the clauses of the bill,
and in the course of his remarks said, that of the
700,0001. levied for church rates, 600,0001. were paid
by Churchmen. He looked upon this bill as one more
applicable to populous towns than to rural parishes.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE seconded the. amendment. He
admitted dissentets and churchmen had grievances to
complain of under the present system, but the bill of the
hon. baronet did not provide a satisfactory remedy for
these grievances. This bill was not to apply to Scotland
and Ireland, and looking at the present state of the law
in Scotland, he was of opn that the
haw
had been introduced not for the purpose of
providing religious .freklom, but if possible to a btain
peace. So far from that being accomplished, he (Sir S.
Northeote) considered the bill would introduce discord
into parishes where it did net at present exist. The
taunt bad been thrown oat, were your wealthy mem-
bers of the Church, if church rates were abolished, not
ready to come forward to maintain the fabric of the
Church. Of course they were, but it would be done by
the organisation of sonic central association, who
would have a control over he distribution of
the funds, and that would tend to the denationalising
of the Church, by shaking the confidence of the parish-
ioners in the Church, from their having no voice in its
management. He objected to their having recourse to
voluntary contributions and then putting their manage-
ment into the hands of certain auditors for distribution.
He also expatiated on the evils that would result to the
parishioners and the church by relying on voluntary
contributions instead of church rates in parishes when
the landowner was a Roman Catholic.
Sir G. GREY said that the house bad a right to know
the course 'the Govelnment would take in refer-
ence to this bill. He said it' was surrounded with
sufficient difficulty to permit its being considered.
separate from the law with reference to the church r
Rtes
in Scotland, but as it affected England. The noble lord
bad omitted to notice the existing state of the law
with
.referende to church rste2, and ithat there was
no ground for the abolition of this rate Icing consi-
dered op:dation Qr. confiscation.. • If these rates "lops-

L. ~ ..

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Tif

abo:ished, the Church of Erie!: n 1 would be found _
to rest on Lief; stronger than that connected with a
ohu-ch rate that.wpold entitle her to the: denomination
of hying the national Church. He considered ,that%the
recent decision of the House of Lords had virtually abo-
lished this rate, but that was not such a remedy as thoie:
who approved of church rates thought sufficient. That
state of the law was unsatii•factory. Of the various
schemes that had been propounded. for the modification
of church rates by the friends of the Church, in nleibev
all of them there was that radical defect that they
might go to these towns where a compromise-.
had been come to, and make a rate that might reconcile
the opponents to it, but which he thought woad be
found to fail, and give rise again to strife and dissension
which now had happily ceased in those towns. These
being abolished in those towns, the law: might, be con-
sidered to be sirtlially abolished ; but the Government ,
would not give their consent to the innuediat*and total
abolition of church rates throughout the king-
dom, but that the principle of abolition,, as•
the principle of this bill, should be recognised and 'sane:.
tioned, the abolition of church rates in all those placers
where they had been discontinued' for a limited
pericd—(cries of " Oh, oh")--nit of sufficient tines
to- indicate that the parishioners had decided the
rate should not be levied in future, arid which wag
in 'accordance with the principle of a bill introduced
last session into the House of Lords by the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury. He thought no objection would
be raised to the admission of the noble lord who moved
the arneodmout, that Dissenters ought to be relieved
from the ride, toit that if he took advantage of that
exemption lie ought not thereafter to be permitted .to
interfere with ailtbine connected wito the levy-
ing of a fund, nr its application for the main-. •
tenance of the fabric. They ought not, boar-
ever, to be denied participation -in the' ordinatces
of the Church. Nothing could be more suicidal on the
part of the Church than to refusm all to come within its

portals. Admitting this prospective abolition' of Char*
rates in the manner he had stated, the CrovenuneiA
would stipport.tho second reading of this bill, and in coon•
wittee bring forward amendments to meet their views
on this question, and remedy what defects there might
be in the details of the bill. Church rates sow were as
uncertain as voluntary contributions; but it was 'dash,
able a substitute should be provided in voluntary oon-
tributions assisted by a " fabric fund" chargeable on the
p operty of landowners within the parish towards making
up any deficiency that might arise. He did net lout "
on voluntary contributions as being so capricious a
source of income as many hon. members imagined. Hi :7;
referred to many of the atetnalies of the present law with .
reference to. town and rural parishes. • 3-
t
Mr. DRUMMOND said the amendments proposett''t
by the G.,verninent to this measure would so alter it that
it would be but fair if it were withdrawn and the Gce
vernment to bring in another. He objected to sill
of the proposed alterations in the law of church rates.
(Hear.) He referred to the establishment of 'chili&
rates, which were as old as the establishment of Chris-
tianity in this country, and that of churchwardens,
dated so far back as 1147. A national church was that
church which a sovereign supported, and the reason whi t.
the people had dissented from the church was
from the heads of the church depriving them 'of
the necessary accommodation by the introduction of
pews. The heads of the' Church were the enemies of
the Church, and not the Dissenters. The Braintree case

was now settled by the decision of the House of Lords,

who had reversed the judgments of learned judges on
thequeetten. The House of Lords would not allow

God's house to be repaired; and they were now about to
pull down their own. (Laughter.) Every owner
of a house held it on the understanding thatit shoUld
contribute towards church rates, and if the Government

abolished church rates the property should he valued and
compensated accordingly. • .
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL addressed the house .111
in consequence of the noble lord, the mover of the
amendment, saying, in the course of his speech, that the
hon. members who voted last session in favour of
similar measure was headed by a " reckless Attorney-
General," and defended his conduct fro such a personal
attack.
Lord J. RUSSELL regretted the eretary of State 1
for the Home Department had not git en abetter twin- 1
tion for meeting the difficulties of the question-than he
had done but he had chosen the inconvenient course of
giving hiS and the Government. support to a bill in '4
which lie proposed to in trod uco se vera I eornplicated defaiTi
in committee. He did not consider Dissenters entitled to I
relief from church rates becAuse they were Ditienters,
and he would be ready at any time ;to (Jimmies that
question. The people who had a trievaiice here•
was those who belonged to the E:tablishea Church
from the law bein; open to coercion. The' remedy. 7.
proposed by the right hon. taronet required 'that a
substitute should he provided for the abolition of church
rates, bat he did not suggest any but what thn'Tiresent
bill did—that of bringing peace into all parisheF. The-
proposition of the Go.erninent would neithersattsfy.the—
rights Of the Church, appeas'! the conscienn3s of disseiters,
nor promote peace. Tee noble lord then proceeded to
examine in dieail the propo,ilinns of the HomeSecre.
tary, and also the rnover-of the bill. He was afraid r,f
two eta ses : one who objected to the existence of A
national Church, aid who, by attacking the '
outpost.; hurled afterwards to carry the cittdet ; and"
th© other was the very English churchman who wished' .3
to separate those who-differed from him, and make the
Established Church a sectarian establishment, which, if
carried out, would soon affect the dignity, property, and -,
proriSions of that establ;stimetit. Under all the circuit'.
•
stances of the ease, he felt tn:tiod to vote against the

second Teading of the. hill.
•L•ird PALMERSTON defended the enure the Go-
•vernmtAtt had pureued with respect to this,questiOn,...
The determination they had arrived at bad not been.
hastily collie to, but bad been adopted after the most ma•

ture consideration. The rate as now levied was only on
the voluntary system, and it was therefore a farce to
speak of the reliance the Church placed nponlirtipeity
arising from this mode. • The Government ko-
posed to acknowledge existing facts, and their '
pripcsition was the one that in red. on -On old rs_
commend itself to the house. (Hear.) 'Phey-iiroposeri
that in parishes where the rate was not levied it Stieulefl
nut he forced upon them. and they provided nieaStVie-airr-",•‘'.4
ensure the proper application of the proceeds of the rate 2
where it existed. It had been argued that this meastnin%l
should have been cpposed by the Governthent,
their •propositions introduced into a tu6sure
their own : but he held it wps their duty, agreeing
as they did with the main principles of the bill intro-
duced
by the hon. member (sir \V. Clay), to support it
in its prevent stage.
Mr. supported the motion.
The linuSe then divided, when there appeared
For the second reading 221
•
• • Against it
Majority
The announcement of the numbers was received with •
loud cheers.
The bill was then road a second time.

In reply to Mr. WALPOLE,
Sir G. GREY said the a'nendments the Government
intended to introdule into this bill on committee •
would be laid on the table as speedily as possible,
cer-
tainly before the Easter recess.
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGE BILL. •_
Mr. A. PELLATT moved the second reading of this t
bill, which was, in tilt:et., the same as the one which
passed a second reading last session.
After a few observations from Sir W. Ileathcote; •••
Lord Palmcrstov, Mr. Henley, and several
other honourable members, the bill wag read

a sece,nd time and ordered to be committed on the 11th
of April.

The C.msolidated Fund Bill ('26,000,000/) was read a
second time.

The ether business having been disposed of, the house
adjourned at 1:Alf-past 5.

CRIMINAL COURT.—(This Day.) frr,

(Before Lord Chief Justice Jervis.) T'as-104./',41
Mimi/ Griffith., 84, was indicted for feloniously as-
`-
saulting and wounding Alfred Mills with intent to :c;
murder In other counts his intent was said to be
to do bodily injury to the prosecutor dangerous to lite
The Lord Chief Justios having •feummed up, the 'jury
found the prisoner guilty of wounding the prosecutor
with intent to do him grievous bodily harm, and he was
sentenced to be transported, for life.

THIRD COURT. -0 in i‘mti brui-t„46,
(Before the C Sergeant.)r 9 (.1 flvfoFtp.sh
Alfred Strinbourve, 20, engineer, was indicted
burglary, iu the dwelling-liouse of Sir Henry Mugger'
;46.aci
ge, and Ftesling a watch, gold chain, and two coats
valued at 20/.

It appeared that the house of the pro3ecutor at
Streatham wa3 Broken into upon this night of the 24th
of Jan., and the gools in question stolen, and prisoner
was traced pawning the property r► part of the next day.
The jury found bin guilty, and he was sentenced to
12 months' and hard labour.

THAMES TUNNEL Colt?Axv.—The annual meeting of
the shareholders of this c .mpany was held yesterday at
Radley's Hotel, New Bridge-street; B. Hawes, E9(1.4
in the oiair. From the report for the year ending Dee.
31, it appeared that the receipts for the year, from VA-
riuui3 sources, amounted to 6,0691. Os. 9d., and the ex- -
pendituro to 3,6301. 149. 11. ; there had keen paid to
the Government, 1,854/. 124. 2d., and there remained
in hand 5731. 14,. 6d. rho chairman said there was no
money for shareholders at present, and that hopes wtra
entertained that some useful scheme would be projected
to render the property a means of making them some
return. There bad been proposals for the tunnel being
made the medium by which the railways, north and
south of the metropolis, might be tied together. The
report was then adopted. A shareholder mentioned,
that a scheme tor using the Regent's Canal. and the
Tunnel had been favourably reported by the committee •
of the House of Commons. The proceedings then ter-
minated in the usual manner.
The WEECE OF TUN JOSEPtiIWE WlLT,ls_Dovra.
The doers employed en the sunken wreck of the ship
Josephine Willie, Off Folkestone, have been succeosful in
their operations during the last few days. All the spars.,
rigging, &c., have been cleared away, and they have been
able to penetrate into the chief cabin and remove a quan-
tity of luggage, bearing the names of Miss Logan and.
Mr. Ray. They also secured a mahogany chest from
the cabin, which it was found contained the ship's plate, .
besides many other articles of value. They expect in a
short time to be enabled to get all the property belong=
ing to the pa#seugers from the cabin. Next week at-
tempts will be made, should the weather prove favour
Wet to get itAccargo, .

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY).

The Loup CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented peti-
tions against opening the Crystal Palace and other places
of amusement on Sundays.
CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL.

Lord STANLEYof ALDER LEY gave notice that on
the second reading he would move the suspension of the
standing orders, with a view of passing the measure,
which was of very pressing importance.
CHURCH DISCIPLINE ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.

Lord SHAFTESBURY gave notice that, on the
second reading of the Church Discipline Act Amend-
ment Bill, he should move that the bill be read a second
time that day six months.