The Sun.
London, England, 1851-12-31 00:00:00

Til OPERATIVE ENGINEERS AND
SocietyEMPLOYERS.
o Engineers,
Ma-
chinists, &c., held a public
ng last night at the
Hall of Commerce, Thread': meeting
Threadneedle-street, "to iscuss
the present state of the iron trades,eedie-
and the position. ofd
the society in relation thereto;" as was indicated
in another handbill, publicly to orcontradict
er certain as-
sertions put forward by the emolo
them-
selves right with the public. The ball and set
Mr. J. MUST°, the Chairman of
the
crowded.
xecutive
Council, having been called on to preside
opened opened the business of the evening, and said ,thbriefly
consequence of statements which had appeared that,
in
papers, it was deemed advisable that a public merle the
should be called, to give the executive council of the
society an opportunity of explaining to the public the
position in which the society stood, and the proceed-
ings that had been taken. Mr. Newton give
would
that explanation.
Mr. NEWTON, who was received with loud cheers,
said that their proceedings, as at first adopted, were
not perhaps intended to engage so much of the atten-
tion of the public as they had done, nor would the
council have forced themselves forward as they now
dii, but for misrepresentations of their objects and
intentions. The combination of employers started
at Manchester was either misled by the statement of
Messrs. Hibbert and Platt, of Oldham, or was based
upon known truths; but the combination was formed
upon the ground that the workmen of Messrs.
Hibbert and Platt were about to do an act of injus-
tice to their employers. The matter had been dis-
cussed in the newspapers, and the societ • had been
represented us insisting—(l) upo. ;.'- ..lition of
watematic overtime,". and (2) t *nun:
of " piece-worki" (3) with•claimi.. .: `ttiiiaters
should at once and without reserve discharge the
class of persons engaged in and long trained to the
working of self-acting machines, and employ in their
dead mechanics, members of the union ; and further
(4), according to " Amiens," " the council were pre-
pared to advocate an equalization of the rate of wages;
to lend themselves, in fact, to an agitation for a trial
of the ingenious doctrines of M. Louis Blanc."
Now, the first two of these •
propositions were the
propositions of the society.—(gear, hear.) The
third was never made by them, and the intention at-
tributed to them of equalising wages was as foreign
to their objects and general opinions as anything
could be.—(Hear.) They disavowed all intention of
removing any persons at present in employment--
(Hear,
thear)—there was nothing in the present
proceedings of the council that expressed or im-
plied any such intention ' • they had never asked for
the removal of a man from a machine, who was
working at it, who had earned a title to work at it
by the time he had been employed at it • and, so far
from the opinions of their members being against
those men, they had fostered and encouraged them.—
(Hear, hear.) But here it would be necessary to
refer to proceedings some months ago. There was in
May a dispute between Messrs. Hibbert and Platt and
their workmen, who demanded the abolition of over-
time, and asked for the discharge of a certain number
of men they called illegal men, and he (Mr. Newton),
at the request of the workmen, went down to mediate
in the matter. Ultimately Mr. Platt agreed to the
following propositions :
" 1. That in future all planing, slotting, shaping, and
boring machines, at the workshop of the undersigned,
be worked either by mechanics or apprentices, to be
taken up by them as they fall vacant.
"2. That the labourers at present employed upon
those machines be not unduly interfered with before
Christmas, 1851, when the machines shall fall entirely
into the hands of the mechanics,. but if any of the
labourers are discharged, or the machines otherwise be-
come vacant, the vacancies shall be filled up by the
mechanics as they occur.
"3. That Michael Benard have taken from him all
authority over workmen in our employ, and that all
illegal hands be discharged; we further say that we dis-
approve of the practice alleged against Benard, and
pledge ourselves that they shall not again be repeated."
Systematic overtime was also to be abolished. But
Mr. Platt said, that though he was content to agree
to these resolutions, he had no guarantee that the men
would make the same conditions with other employers;
and he wrote out another articles—" That if the ma-
jority of legal shops in the same line of business refuse
to concede the above requests, at the expiration of
three years from the date of these resolutions, the
question be again open for discussion." So that he
actually made an exaction from the men that they
should force these resolutions upon other employers.
—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Newton) left Oldham with
1 the distinct understanding that the agreement was to
come into operation at Christmas.—(Bear, hear.)
The question of overtime was settled in Manchester
on the Ist of November, before this agitation on the
part of the employers was raised against it.—(Bear,
hear.) The combination of employers was in conse-
quence of Messrs. Hibbert and Platt knowing that
the agreement was to be fulfilled at Christmas,
and the object was to prevent its being fulfilled.
Whether it was to be fulfilled or not vita a question
only for the Oldham men; it was not a question for
this society.—(Hear, hear.) He had written to Mr.
Platt, a fortnight ago, representing that he was not
treating his men fairly in identifying himself with the
combination at Manchester, and Mr. Platt answered
that he approved of the document at the time,
and should have carried it into effect, but that
the workmen had broken it themselves in July
last. The men in July made some resistance
on the ground that the condition had not been ful-
tiled which related to Benard, who was a sort of
middle-man, taking a quantity of piecework and em-
ploying his fellow-men to doit—what the tailors
would call "a sweater"—(Hear, hear)—he was most
despotic and tyrannical, and Mr. Platt had said the
system should not continue.—(Hear, hear.) But the
society had nothing to do with all this, and had never
taken part in the proceeding. He himself attended
at 01 inam in his individual capacity to try to pre-
vent a " strike," which must be attended with so
much misery.— (Hear, hear.) The question was be-
tween Messrs. Hibbert and Platt and their workmen ;
the society were determined not to be dragged into
the dispute.—(Hear.) They disavowed all attempts
to remove men from machines ; they had no such in-
tention. Their disposition was to make common
cause with such men, and assist them, rather than
they should be thrown idle upon the world.—
(Hear, hear.) Neither had the society any in-
tention to try to equalize wages themselves with the
agricultural labourer.—(Hear.) What they sought
was a fair opportunity for every working man, as far
as practicable, to use his labour.—Hear.) They de-
sired to make it less precarious by regulating the
work there was to be done.—(Hear, hear.) As to
identifying themselves with Socialists and Com•
=mists, they had no connexion with any political,
social, or religious party, and they advocated their
own views, not because Louis Blanc advocated
them (is he did), but because experience taught
them that it was necessary some change should be
made in order to elevate their social condition.—
(Hear, hear.) What, then, was it that they asked ?
That overtime be abolished—time worked over and
above six days per week of ten hours per day (or,
at least 68i hours per week), which they held as a
principle to be the proper time to labour when there
was labour to be performed—(Hear, hear)—and they
held that a man ought to be able, by six days' labour,
to earn sufficient to keep himself and his family.—
(Hear, hear.) The society did not ask for a reduc-
tion of those hours, but only that a man should be
allowed to leave his work when his days' labour was
done. The present practice of working overtime
was an evil physically, morally, intellectually, and
socially. The workmen felt this fifteen years ago,
and held meetings about it, and an agreement was
come to as to the rate of payment for overtime. It
was not uncommon for men to work for weeks' to-
gether from four or six in the morning till ten at
night.—(Hear, hear.) A man could not do justice to
his employers at such hours; his health was injured
by it ; a number of men were left idle through it ;
and the workman had no opportunities of improve-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) Why, but from the long
hours of work, had mechanics' institutes proved
such a dead failure ?—(Hear, hear.) But Mr.
Scott Russell said that the men were not forced to
work overtime. But, indeed, they were.—(Hear
hear.) If a man declined, he was immediately dis-
charged.—(Hear, hear.) That was compulsion ; he
comp
saw on the one side of him excessive labour, and on
other starvation. (TT
ear hear.) There were scores
who had been clichar ed because they refuted to work
overtime.—(Hear, he
•) The workmen found that
individual refusal was individual sacrafice, and that itmust be genera]; and they bad come to that conclu-
sion-12,000 of them.—(Cheers.)
If Mr. Russell had
employers to have his as-
sertion put into
inflUence enough with the
General practice, he would hear no
withregard to • for all
of this agitation
more
that was asked was that men should be at liberty to
decline it if they liked, and not punished for working
only six days a week.—(Hear, hear.) a hen as to the
other question—piecework—the public thought that
every man had a right to make the most he could of
his superior ability and expertness. Granted ; piece-
work was not objected
,to, but only the manner in
which it was now carried out. Let it be done by con-.
tract between employers and employed, as in a con-
tract between them and their customers, and no man
would object. But a piece of work was brought into
the workshop, and a man was told he must do it for