The Sun.
London, England, 1834-02-18 00:00:00

)1,
moorings would now be allotted for the use of the mer-
chant service.--• The resolttion was agreed to.
On the motion that -urn rite exceeding 22,6331. he
granted for the expenses of the naval establishments
abroad, after a few words from Mr. Youtra, the resolu-
tion was agreed to.
On the motion, that a sum not exceeding 34,8121. be
granted for defraying the naval establishments at home—
Mr. YOUNG said a few words which were inaudible
in the gallery.
Mr. COBBETT pretested against so great an estimate
being voted. There were many items which he objected
to, and which he was desirous to hear explained. The
expense of the works in the dock-yards was enormous. '
There were charges for teams of horses, which he consi-
dered were unnecessary, and there was a considerable sum
required for the plyment of a police force, the employment
of which he strongly deprecated. It was a part and parcel
of a system, the introduction of a Bourbon guard, which
was un-English, and, therefore, ought to be discontinued.
Were they to vote money for, perhaps, adding to the num-
ber of spies ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—Convict labour has been
abolished in the Dock-yards, as it was considered better
to carry the full sentence of transportation into effect;
therefore the necessity for the employment of horse power.
With regard to the Police force, it was essential, he be-
lieved, to have watchmen where there was property to
protect. The watchmen did the duty of others who were
confined to their own proper callings, and, consequently,
the expense would be found more apparent than real.
That a sum not exceeding 25,512/. be granted for the
Naval Establishments abroad.—Carried.
That a sum not exceeding 421,990/. be granted for the
purchase of Naval stores, steamers, repairs of wharfs, &c.,
in his Majesty's Dock-yards.
Mr. YOUNG, in objecting to the vote, observed upon
the reductions which bad taken place since the voting of
the last estimates; still the sum demanded was not less,
and therefore he considered there was much room for
complaint.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM went into a recapitulation of
the various articles used—English oak, Canadian timber,
steamers, pitch, tar, hemp, &c. &e., and contended that
their relative prices bore out the truth of the estintette.
Mr. HUME denied there was a necessity for brrilding
large ships of war. Such a large item of expense might
be saved to the country.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said a few words in explana-
tion of his dissent from the Hon. Gentleman's views.—

•, ,

'-,

Carried,
That a sum not exceeding 74,9801. be granted 1,,r new
works and improvements in the Dock-yards.—Carried.
That a sum nut exceeding 25,641/. he granted Inc
medicine and medical stores, &c.—Agreed to.
That a sum not exceeding 36.154/. be granted to die
Naval Miscellaneous Services.—Agreed to.

That a sum not exceeding 847,3601. be granted for
the Half-pay of the Navy and Royal Marines.
Mr. COBBETT would oppose this vote. He would
divide the House upon it. In the sum called for, be could
see the cause of the decline of ournaval power. It was twice
as much as was necessary in former times, when we had
100,000 men ; whereas, we bad now only 22,000
Thus 22,000 men cost as much as 100,000 did for..
merly ; 847,3601. covered all the items of expenditure
of the Government of the United States of America,
payment of Ambassadors and all; could any one, then,
wonder at the misery of the people of England? This
sum would be wrung from their labour, and he would
ask, what would be the use afterwards of complaining
of distress if this vote were carried? How could the
House call upon the Minister to reduce taxation, when
such enormous sums were voted away ? He would divide
the Heuse on the vote.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said the simple question was,
would the House perform the contract entered into with
men who had fought and bled for their country ?—(Hear.)
He would be ashamed to argue such a question. Let the
Hoo. Member divide the House if he pleased.
Mr. COBBETT declared the question was not whether
the country would perform its contract. He would be far
from desiring that his half-pay should be taken from any
officer who had earned it by long, faithful, or brilliant
services; but he felt the House should institute an inquiry
before they voted away so large a sum of the people's
money ; if they did hot, the Reform Pat liament was not
worth a—(We could not catch the closing word of the
Hon. Gentleman's sentence.)
Mr. HUME said there were 3,695 Lieutenants on the
list, whereas only 600 could be employed. There were
834 Captains in the Navy. With these facts before his
eyes, he considered there ought to be inquiry, wf,ich
nisters should grant, unless, indeed, they were only follow-
ing in the steps of their predecessors. Such, however,
was the plague spot on their character. With atl this—
yet he would propose no reduction, unless it were shown
that , there were those on the Half:-pay- List wh;kdid not
deserve to be there.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM would reiterate big. former
asstvtion. The question was—Will you peFform your
contract or not?
Major BEAUCLERK hoped there would b4:a better
system adopted for the future.
Mr. GUEST would be. ashamed to vote against the
Estimate, yet he trusted there would be a better system for
the future.

Mr. COBBETT could not understand such logic. The
Hon. Member would be ashamed to vote againss the Es-
timate, yet he hoped the system from which ►t sprung
would be altered ; which was to the effect, that .)e would
be ashamed to vote against that which his better judgment
told him was wrong.
Mr. GUEST said, that he did not object to the parts of
the vote which related to the half-pay of ollicere, but to
tho.e parts that related to superannuation allowaaccs.
The Vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 530,348/. was then voted to defray the
charges of Military P,risions and Allowances.
The sum of 250,2581. was then moved for to defray
the charges of Civil Pensions and Allowances.
Mr. HUME begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet,
(Sir J. Graham) when be intended to bring in a Bill,
promised last Session, with respect to regulating Super-
annuation Allowances?

Sir J. GRAHAM said, that the charge of bringing in
such a Bill was a disagreeable one, but he beped to an-
nounce to the Hon. Member that he had a Bill ready re.
lative to the subject in question. 11, was delayed from
Winging in the Bill from a press of other important public
business.

Mr. HUME did not consider it a disagreeable charge
to reduce the public burdens, and if the Right Hon.
Baronet bad not time to bring iu the Bill, he should not
have taken it out of others' bands. The Hon. Member
added, that he saw on the ha. an individual with a
pension of 1171. a year, and, from tne number of years
he had served, it appeared to him that he must be a very
young man.
Sir J. GRAHAM—The person the Hon. Member
alluded to is upwards of sixty years old, and baa both his
legs broken.—(Hear, and a Logi].)
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 180,1151. was then voted fcr defraying
the charges of transports, and the conveying of troops,
stores, &c.
The sum of 113,3601. was then moved for defraying
the expenses of carrying convicts to New Soui.b Wales.
Sir J. GRAHAM, in answer to a question from Mr.
Hu.i.e, said that the expense of carrying convicts was
about 151. per head.
Mr. HUME thought it might be done at a cheaper
rate. He was told it inighi, be dune for any number of
convicts at between 111. and 121. per head. He hoped
the Government would persevere in sending out all the
convicts.
Sir J. GRAHAM replied (as we understol),
the establishments at Deptford, Sheerness, and Plymouth,
would be broken up before April next, and the establish-
meet at Chatham in the course of the year.
The vote was then agreed to. that
The House then resumed.
The CHAIRMAN reported the resolutiops to the
House, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow (this day).
On the report of the Committee of Supply being
brought up, containing the resolution, " That towards the
supplies the sum of 14,000,0001., be raised by Exchequer
Bills for the service uf the year 1834,"
Mr. HUME begged leave to ask the Noble Lord opp
• o-

site (Lord Althorif how it happened that the amount of
the house duty was 1,100,0001., when last year it
amounted to 1,200,0001. and upwards?
Lod ALTHORP said, that if he recollected rightly, he
stated the other night that the atnount of the tax tvas

1,200,0001. He believed that the gross amount of

last year was about 1,400,000/., but that in consequence
of a reduction of somewhat about 240,0001., which took
place last year, the present amount might be taken at about
1,170,0001.
Mr. HUME did not take that to be the reduction men-
tioned the other evening by the Noble Lord. He under-
stood the Noble Lord to say that a reduction of 400,0001.
had taken place.
Lord ALTHORI'—Time Hon. Gentleman will be
pleased to recollect that the first statement of reduction I
made was that of 100,000/. Afterwards I said that ad-
ditional reductions had been made, and I think I recollect
saying that they amounted to 400,0001., but the true
amount •f reduction may be taken at 250,0001.
Mr. HUML agaih piked, with respect to the Wet'