The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-05 00:00:00

EAST INDIA COMPANY's SERVANTS.

Mr. WILLIAM DUNDAS moved the Order of the
Day for the second reading of the Bill for enabling
the East India Company to transfer their Servants
at Fort Marlborough, in Bencoolen, from thence to
Madras.

On-the question for reading the Bill a second
time,

Mr. WM. DUNDAS said, that in consequence of
what had fallen from an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Jo tr
STONE) on a preceding-evening, he wished to state to
the House in a few Words the nature and ()Ned of the
Bill, and he was convinced, that when the House
was fully informed upon the subjed, they would at
once see the.propriety of the Bill. He would first,
however,observe, that.he had no private affedion for
the Bill, but that it had come to him in consequence
of the unanimous resolution of the Court of Direc-
tors of the East India Company. The expence of
the Establishment in Bencoolen had been from
too,oool. to 120,0001., without any adequate re-
turn for this expenditure ; the. object, therefore,
now was, to reduce this Establishment to a Fadory,
Whereby a saving would be made of 80,0001. The
Court of Diredors certainly might themselves have
done this without corning to Parliament, but in
that case the Servants at this Establishment must
have been. left without any provision. It surely
would nor be contended, that these 'men, who had
passed,their days in the service of the Company, were
at last to he discharged without any provision what-
ever. The question•was, therefore, to what place
they were to he transferred ? The Hon. Gentleman
had suggested that they might be transferred to
Prince of Wales's Island, or to Ceylon, but to. both
of these places there were the greatest objedions:
The Hon. Member had, however, contended, that
to transfer them to Madras, would be a- breach of
national faith, because it would unjustly deteriorate
the situation of those of the Company's Servants,
who were already stationed at Madras. It should
be reconciled, that since the year 1798, the East,
India Company had made large acquisitions of ter-
ritory in Mysore, from which their Servants at
Madras had derived the greatest advantages, which
they had no right previously to expel, and he
could not see what objection there could now be to
the transfer of a few additional Servants to that
Presidency. The Revenues of the Presidency of
Madras had very materially increased since the
year 1793, at which period the number of Servants
there was 173, the number at present Was 207 ; but
if they were increased in proportion to the increase
of the Revenues, the number ought to be 287;
where then could be the objedion to. transfer a tew
additional Serva'nts thither ? The Servants who
were to he transferred, were to lose five years rank
on being sent to Madras, and he could not conceive
how their transfer could injure the rights, or the
just expedations of the Company's Servants at Ma-
dras. He wished to press upon the House, that the
object of this Bill was to save 80,0001. to the East
Ind-iinCompany, which was now expended on a su-
purfluous Establishment.

Mr. 70 HAISTONE said, if the House was really
reduczd to the alternative of either passing this Bill,
or that of the Company losing 80,0001. lie would not
hesitate a moment in giving it his-support. The
Mouse would recollett that they had formerly a very
flourishing statement of the alLirs of the East
India Company given them, which turned out to
he fallacious, as they could not go on without solid
and substantial reforms. He admitted in this
case, that the expences of 13encooleri were 120,0001.
hut of this 60,0001. was appropriated to military
cArences 1. zo,oooi. to certain charges relative to

the fortifications, and the only usmining 4-(rtht
was applied to the Civil Establishment. fated
sum of 40,0001. only 15,0c01. was ari'm 4a,
to the payment of salaries:. in the proposed t
blilltnent of a Factory, there was to he a geodes 0
wils a salary of 30001. and five AsSistants at a
ex pence of zoool, amounting together to co 001.;
i
the saving therefore, would. not be 80,001., hut, °fcif
to,oool. He coulal not agree, that fur the sane
saving only 10,0001., the House ought. to pass
e':
Bill which went to violate the public faith pledg
to the Company's Servants at Madras. By the
jnd
rent .
Bill several regulations had been establisher:to-the Company's Servants ; amongst the rest, "lai,t
they should rise by seniority, and should 0015'1
allowed to enter the service at an early period%
life, in order that they might devote their wh°`
time to the Company's service, and that those era
perienccd in the affairs of the Company tnigl;t
appointed to high situations. The Public faith %I
therefore pledged to the Company's Servants, it
each Establishment, for the fulfilment of their f'klo
expeatitions, and he could not consent, for the si,3o
of saving so small a sum, to violate that faith. Chi:
Hon. Gentleman had said, that the nurrib2r of
Company's Servants at Ma.iras was smaller ttian
it ought to be in proportion to the reven ellO
of that Presidency ; but it it was in conternflitTe
to do so, a junction should take place betweeill'4
Presidencies of Bombay and Madras, and there cTiji,
be no doubt that the number of servants would
be amply sufficient,- as there would be at least 'a-4
hundred. Ile saw no ,reason why'the Servants w'
were the objcclt of the Bill, might not be ton°
ferred to the Prince of Waits's Is ~d, or .to Cc;
lon instead of Madras. For all these reasons "e
was hostile to the Bill, though he should not 0111)°s•
its going into a Committee, where he sliould „
pose certain Clauses to meet his ideas upon the Sulkjed. 11,• however, the Hon. Gentleman co°,
clearly shew that 80,0001. would be saved by 1)3517-:
ing the present Bill, he would not any longer

)

"jea to it.
Mr. WALLACE said, as the Hon. Gentletnan
did not oppose the Bill's going to a Couhnittee,
should trouble the House with only a fess liforA
on the subjea. The objea of the Bill was to Ev"
to the East India Company a considerable c%Pell,ace't
'The Hon. Gentleman had, however,' denied- t.'"'es
the sum stated• by the Honourable Geoticllci
who brought forward the Bill, could be. sald
by its operation. The Honourable Geotietua-it
(Mr. Jost sts-ro NE) hadconfined his argument on this
head, to the Civil. Expenditure of Bencoolena_detT.
ing that any saving would accrue under this -big iia"
the Military Expences; but,.surely, it mast be evr'''
dent that the Military Expences must be in Propo-;'
tion to the Establishment kept up, and if, as it wi
intended, Fort Marlborough was to be recktice`-'
a FaEtory, there would necessarily be a considerabo
saving in the Military Expenditure. He would
agree with the Hon. Gentleman so far, that td,
saving would not be so great as had been state°,
but, at the same time, it was considerably 4'1.1.
than it had been stated by the Hon: Gentle:oot
He would take it, during a period of Peace,
28,00010 and in War at 96,0001. The average of
which, taking .one year of War, and another„c
Peace, would be 62,0031. He could not Conceliceb
how this Bill could affect the rights or etarfusae
pe(tations of the Company's Servants at -i-teas
Bras. The Honourable Gentleman had st,..;eas
that, by the Mt of Parliament on that
the Company's Servants must rise by seta°t-as,C
but, it should be recolletled, that seniority god
no absolute claim ; the Company were at fig
liberty to make a choice wherever they foundtlicso
or experience to justify that choice. These le,
whom it was proposed to transfer, were to be
,4
prived of five years rank, they were very fc.°lr, j
nramber, and how the addition of so small a numbed 4,
onder such circumstances, to the numerous bsitlY'sl t
the Company's Servants at Madras, would set wag
affeft the rights or interests of that body, he ;00
at a loss to imagine. It had been said, they 112'W
be sent to the Prince of "Wales's island, but lie L)ta,
not understand how they could be'established ttictaa
unless as Servants of the Crown, amenable 00,0
Company, which would be absurd. But 4, oh,
urged, they might be sent to Ceylon; in this-10of
however, no Servant of the Company eotild':siglil.
'without seriously injuring those prospens
he had .a right to entertain. It was not beciaat
the Establishment of Bencoolen was subverted, opt
therefore the just claims of the Servants were, ai
to be attended to, and he considered the objo-7eti
this bill to be perfedly_ consistent with Igor°
and justice. NO
Mr.. METCALF said, that he had oci 0,t.9
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. joliNsToNE)
actuated by a desire to preserve the Rights
ot
Establishment of MadraS, but he trusted the ll° al
would readily believe that the Executive Body to
the East India Company were equally atten i`ato.
those. Rights ; that nothing might be svzioti')'faee
the justice due to those Rights, the Court 0fv41,05'
tors had sent notice to the Establishment 01 lII'
fe"
that they intended to apply to Parliament !°olse
move those Servants who were the objcai (,),,ejeJ.
present Bill. It was impossible that the Ad
to by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
_Too NsToNE) —lO7
apply to the present case, as it could 11Qt ha" ir,ift
templation such a .cireurnstance. It was true, El'f,cf,
India Company had received a great accessioo c)ciaal
ritory, and the Court of Directors mialo, if they VS
pleased, have. made Mysore a !sew Presids:ncY:llo).
they rather chose to give up the patronage 0,00
such an ad would have conferred upon them, lid
apply to Parliament in the maener
had now done. The Hon. Gentlelnen 11:"1./
that these men might he sent to CeviOn =
Hon. Gentleman could prevail on the Ci'Owl•tiniol
up Ceylon to- the East India Company, it I Ireti
indeed be dune, but it surely woo 1,1 il"r" „tO.,
corous, in the present instance, to propose t°
them to an Island beloaghig to the Cro\v'''
Prince•of Wales's Ishoid, whia;ll,anii,aeo inenteldk •
was a Residency 'under the .Presid6ney of
These Servants were, as it had been 6.3114 sg"'
irimsrei red with the loss of five years t''n'afts:
those members of the Establishment e,
of .eale,
who looked at these men with the most ly it"
eye, must be aware that they were not etscv
considerable time, to obtain any lucratn
As to the Senior and Junior ;vie:chants °

vWert, they were more likely to come to England
"lan to go to a new Settlement. The Hon. Gen-
*min had said, he would support the bill if it
ectuld.he proved that it would save 80,0001. to the
5 .°ll3any, but not if it would only save ro,oool. ;
,e (Mr. IVIErcALF) could not see any difference in
ta.e Principle, whether the stun to be saved was
iio ,„oo 1
Jwz. or 19,0001.
Mr. D. SCOTT said, that the ground upon which
this sill was founded, was, that the Company had
found
.that the expence of the Settlement of Ben-
etoolen:very far exceeded any advantage that could
Lie derived from, it. He was sure, when the House
tameto.consitier the justice of the case; they would
think 'that it .Would be very hard to turn off me_
ritorious Servants of • the Company without any
revision whatever. As to sending them to Cey-
r, that had been shewn to be impossible ; be-
Skies, if it were not, the Salaries in that Island were
.s° small, that the Company's Servants would not go
there. The highest salary there was only 30001. a
Year; but in the Company's• Service, a man, ac-
e°rding to the number of years he had been em_
piled, had from three to eight thousand a year.-,-
1 t had been -o suggested, that Government had all the
Patronage of Ceylon, and that the East India Com_
tanY defrayed the expence of the Establishment
ut this was not correct; as the Island was solely in
the hands of Government.
• Mr. TIERNEY said,' he was far from attribut-
lng to the East India ComPany, upon this occasion,
'''y thing , as like a job had been -insinuated ; but
he could'not omit this -opportunity of congratulat-
trig the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him
(Mr. W. DuNoAs) upon the sudden gleam of econo-
Iny which he had displayed, and could only lament,
that during the seventeen years that the Rt. •Hon.
Tent I e m a n had been in office, he had not before dis-
played a similar disposition : for it • appeared from
the statements which had• been made, that there
would 'have been ample room for it. He could
tor however,,..whi!hr avoid asking what were the causes
endered this sudden display of patriotism ne-
cessary > i -
' ed for- i '0 'iong ago as 1785., plans had been adopt_
but his_educing the expence of this Establishment ;
the Instead of a reduCtion, the expence amounted in
Ye4:l-96 to 6
glad t - -,'''' I W 0,000 . year, and he
l a
the ex ; 0 -- hoW it happened that since that time
outd. not con.,ratulaie
c _,_, p rice had nearly doubled. He, therefore,
bpori his present Gentleman the Right Han.
the
past
ex past
ant him:for his plans of economy, without census_
that conndue-t : for he was of opinion
of opinion' that nle was most scandalous. He was
coolen were hardlft 1
thei • 9ught to, 'lame (2°.mpany's Servants in Ben-
-ealt% • -this Bill, for at least
y ii,
..
pension to. the ' the alternative of accepting a
going a the
of their present salaries, or
to'econe-niCi; Madras. 'He was undoubtedly a friend
, •
ease
..._ J 5 but he thought the best economy in such
bneasinas co take away all
,grounds of jealousy and
ad, ess from the CotnOany's Servants. Now, by
pting this
measure, he was not sure that it would
tot create
played a great alarm among the persons em...
pl'trandia; because they might be removed at
easure. He was aware of the difficulty. 'of send-
dirE se persons. to Ceylon ; but he thought .that
~ eulty might have been obviated by 'a properim-
uerst. . b
f dnding 'bet ween :the-Company and His Majes.
_vn m• .
tic:
,i
itnisters ; and therefore he was the more pis-
pranuoti thinking that the Right Hon. Gentleman's
co,_ 1 economy came rather late, for.i.t. did not
.le . -
posed 'onftil all the Offices in . that Island were dis-

ieeill!r• 117. DU.VDAS said, .there could be no. ob-
,--"o'n that he was aware of to allowing the Com-
ranY's Servants at Br.ncoolen to retire,. if they pre..
ferred .
...
n it, upon Pensions. With regard to the other
:-arts of die Hon. Gentleman's Speech, he begged to
34Y °rie word in explanation, in perfeC3/4 good tem-
'her* The Hon. Gentleman had said, that he (Mr.
--uNoAs) had held his present office for seventeen
Yie4s, whereas, in point of faCt, he had only been • 1.
1,1'4 situation for four years ; therefore it was ra-
Ine.r hard to make him responsible for that which
L'aPpened before he came into office.
.e .117 r. METCALF rose, merely to explain some-
.ning that fell from an Hon. Friend of his opposite
to him (Mr. Li. SCOTT), respeCting the Salaries of
the Company's Servants in India. The House might
be led •to suppose from what had fallen from his
Hon. Friend, that after a certain number of years
service in India,
Salaries he
titled to then`lta,
the Company's Servants were en-
lad
.-mae rcaei
rotnaeidn
in fad they must havewhereas,
years in India befor I ;been
C t ley 3 but fire might be many
Places • i were entitled to
;numbehrookfi
bein r e fortunate enough obtain)
Mr. W. to theft~.
Tears there without
0 dThe fiiiiDUNDAS explained to a similar effeEt.
was then read. a second time, and was
r ered to be committed on Monday.
e Mr. A
tteLEXANDEIt brought up the Report of the
ottimie of Supply respeCting theArmyEstimates.
Mr. ROMON said, he could not consent to
Suen a large expenditure of Public Money, without
tailing for an' account of the way in which the mo-
. /leY s'llready granted had been Qepended. He had
"tertained great hopes that the present Admini-
stra •
ration would have proved much- more ecouoinical
Than their
offi ce,abc.we
predecessors, but they had now been in
of their a twelvemomh, and lie had not seen any
measures that tended, to . economy. The
thanier of Cavalry for Great Britain was no less
a, 22)°°0, which he contended was unnecessary,
were •ve "re Masters of the Sea, and consequently
ere not afraid of Invasion. -
;the SPEAKER suggested to the Hon. Gentle-
,ban, that if he did not objeCi to the whole of the
resolutions, be had better wait till the Resolutions
were put separately, and then opp ose t.
le Fite Resolutions were then read : uponhem the Reso-
e.attoo being put upon the one respeEting Barracks,
ty Mr. ring
proceeded to mark out various
'treads of Expenditure which he said were highly
IrTProper, such as the Barracks, the Expences of
`-nru and Hay for the Horses of the Cavalry, the
Coals and Candles for the Men? the expellee of
Which he contended to be enormous. The Sum
he for .Beer to the Troops at the Isle of Wight,
ne said. was also bey
maintained and his comprehension. —He
month
Mait that this mode of voting Expenditure by
s Was. dangerous ; the sums coming thus by
driblet, did not strike the imagination in the same
manner as they would do if the whole service of

the year came befoie ftte
.Public at once, and that
the more particularly, as money was raised by Ex-
chequer Bills, to be hereafter provided for, instead
of bringing-out at once the Budget-of Taxes for the
year. He alledged that those things were most
alarming,' and the Country was 'beginning- to feel
the effects of them. The Government was at this
moment insolvent—Public Offices had refused pay.
ment of their own accepted
[Here he was called to Order.] •

The SPEAKER said, he would deliver his o.pi-
nien on the subjed, which . the HouSe 'Would
port and confirm, if right ; if wrong, :of, course it,l*-
would be discountenanced.—His opinion.;!,vas,
if a Member of that House cast any reprOach on t)Vd
Existing. Government of the Country, wider 'the
general charge ofsinsolvency, or otherwise to excite
disesteem towards it, he was disorderly.—That
was his judgment, and whether it was coifed or
erroneous the House would judge.
Mr. ALEXANDER said, he rose to speak to
Order, and in doing so,- he hoped the Hon. Mem-
ber who 'had just spoken, from the feelings of a Pri-
vate Gentleman, as well as from a sense of Public
Duty, as a Member of 'the House of Commons,
would upon refledion, Tetrad so injurious an asser-
tion as that he had just made.
Mr. ROBSON,said, he was ready to go into
evidence in his place to-morrow on this assertion.
He thought it was a thing which had better not be
investigated—it was an expression which
in the warmth of speech,it was a thing better not
inquired into ; but surely he had a right to make
use of a fad in support of his argumwlt,
.
The CHANCELLOR of the'EXCHEQUER said,
if it was a thing which it were better not to in.
quire into, it tfas a thing which had ,better not
have been said. The Hon. Gentleman had said it ;
be was
.nd to prove..it, or_ to retraa it.
ss~ heS CRETAR.Y ,at WAR, said, he really did
Milk that tfie Hon. Gentleman was not treating the
House with that sort of regard and resped which
was due to it, and which the House would, natural.,
.ly expeCt from a Gentleman who had a seat in that
. House.

The CH Ah CELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER said,
he thotight the House ought to expert. of, the
Gentleman to. state the precise fad to which he 'had
:alluded; to name a day on, which he Would bring it
forward, and.prove it : if he did not, the next step
would be for the. House to proceed, to censure. him
for the use of such expression ; for no man in that
,House, or any where, ought to feel himself pre-
pared to Make* a heavy charge against Government
any more than individuals, and alledge a fad for the
basis of such a charge, without being prepared alsq
to bring proof of such fa&

Mr. ROBSON said, that what he had uttered,
was in . the warmth of argument. In adverting to
the expenees of Government, he illustrated that by
stating, that one of the Public Offices had not paid
their acceptances. Now, if any Gentleman would
be so good as to move that. a day lie appointed for
him -to produce proof of the truth of his assertion,
he would do it ; but he would again repeat, that in
his opinion the less was said the better, upon this
declaration of his.
The SECRETARY di it'Ag. said,sad slat as far a;
this declaration .related to himself (Mr. Ronsox), he
believed the less was saidiabout it the better, but
that would•rtht now do for • the House. He should
declare what he-meant ; he should explain what it
was he meant by the fad of which he had spoken.
Mr. ROBSON said,.- that he never asserted in
that House what he 'did not conceive to be true.
It Ava's true that a Banker, a Member of that House,
did take an Acceptance to a Public Office-the sum
was of a small amount.' The answer at that Public
Office was, " That they had not money to pay it."
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—
«I am sure the House must feel it 'is important for
the Hon. Gentleman to proceed and state the whole
of what he knows on the. subjea he alludes'to.—lt
is due to the House—it is due to Government—Ahe
Credit of the Country requires that this matter
shoUld be fully explained.—l understand the H0q,,,,
Gentleman to alledge,.that Government.AcceptanFeA
have been refused payment at a Public Office—[tautGovernment, Acceptances have been refused payment
at a Public Office, is the expression]—l call on hini
to state the particulars, and the circumstances—to
name the Office at which the Acceptance was ten-
dered, and where payment was refused.'.'
Dollar LAWRENCE thought it important that
Charges of this kind should be fully explained, re.;
traded if false, proved-if true—but with regard to
the proceeding of the House against the Hon. Mem-
ber, in case he should eventually be found to have
uttered that which was unf6unded, as the words of
the Hon. Member were not taken down at the
time, and as .what he had said came before the
House incidentally, he dOubted whether there could,
consistently with order, be any proceeding in the.
House upon the matter, nor perhapi was there any
necessity. for it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—
" The Hon. Gentleman has created the necessity.
-He does not state it now as an inadvertency of
speech--an assertion hastily made, but which upon
repeated application to him, he has adopted, it is
spoken advisedly—he said he could prove it—l am
sure we should be making a miserable use of the
Forms of the House, if we decided that they pre-
' elude us from calling on him to produce his proof as
he has declared he can."
Mr. ROBSON said, it was matter of form which
prevented him from saying more than he had done
upon this subjea. What he had said 'was in .the
warmth of debate ; if the House was offended'with
that warmth, he was sorry for it, but he co-ul4
prove what liehad said. Having asserted the fact, he
would support it. He maintained then, he main-
tained still, that an Acceptance of a Public Office
was , presented for payment, and refused—Pere
there (was a loud call of
,f‘ Name ! Name !"] Mr.
Roasov said, the " Sick and Hurt Office."
Mr. VANSITTA RT defied the Hon. Gentle-
man to name the person who brought the Accept-
ance.

A name was then stated, as we understood, bat
we could not hear it.

. .
Mr. DENT said; thde as tbe non. denttorilati
had, after repeated notice, been pleased to adhere
to his assertion, the more regular way would be to
have the words taken down, for the pUrpose of af--
fordink to the House an opportunity of considering
what proceeding it might adopt upon this business,
which, in his opinion was a very serious one, from
the turn it had taken.

The CHANCELLOR ofthe EXCHEQUER said,
that the interposition of the Speeches of other
Members, between the time of uttering the words,
and this proposition for .recording them, had ren-
dered that now irregular,:, if not imprafticable ; but
the sentence might be repyated, and the Hon. Gen-
tleman might adopt it, hepleased. " I under-
stand," said Mr. ADDINGTQN, " the Hon. Gen-
tleman to say and to abide by these words, " That
GovernMent .Acceptances 'haVe been refused pay-
ment; that is to say, that a Government Accept-
ance, in the hands of a Banker, a Member of this
House, was carried' to the Sick and Hurt Office, and-
that there payment was refused." That is the as-
sertion eltthe Hon. Member.' I wish to know now,
whether he adopts that sentence, or 'wishes to
.qua.:
lify it: ? •
Mr. ROBSON said, it was impossible for him,
in tile warmth oldebate, to be sufficiently guarded,
but that was •the substance of what he meant.
The' C H ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that this Matter. was grave and serious. 46 It cer-
tainly,".said he, " shall be inquired into without'
' delay, and the result, 6c it it may, shail be-
made known't.o the House. I understand the Hon.
Memkr to alledge.," That an Acceptance, the
hands of a Banker, a Member of this Rouse, was
carried to the Sick and Hurt Office, and that there,
payment was refused..." •
Mr. ROBSON said, that was the substance .of
what he meant.

The CI.TANC:ELLOR of the EXCHEQUEER-,,-
" Does the Hon. Member propose to corre& that
sentence. I wish once more to know, whether I
have accurately quoted the Hon. Gentleman's state-
ment of the fad

Mr. RQBSON said " The substance is certainly
so, .1 hope there is now an end of the. Conver'sation
though not of the_ 10%447.'1
-
The SPEAKER said,: that perhaps the better
way would be to proceed, now to the Business before
the House. .

The Question for agreeing to the Resolution for
defraying the Expence of Barracks, &c. being put,

The SECRETARY at WAR rose, and said, he
should not • follow the Hon. Gentleman who.. had
spoken against this Resolution, through all he had
said upon this subjed, a great part of which was
not new to the House, it having been frequently
before the House, and disposed of in a manner satis-
faaory to the House—Some of the allusions of the
Hon. Member, however, called for a short answer ;
on the subject of Coals and Candles, the 'Hon.
Membe.r had argued as if Coals and Candles were
pettedly unnecessary to Soldiers in the Summer
months : by this 'sort of ' reasoning they must. cook -
their vi'luals br the heat of the Sun.lie had
forgotten .also that Fuel 'was necessary to their
washing of, their linen—The Honourable Gen-
tleman Szcined co lias-c relied entirely on the ac.
curacy of his own knowledge, the clearness of
his own understanding, and the strength of his
own mind, and that 'accounted -for the numerous
mistakes that occurred in the course of his
observations. Had he inquired of any , body
•qualified ,to form, a judgment on the subject, he
would have received information that would have
spared him the trouble, and saved the House
much of the time which had been bestowed'
upon this subjeCt. Here the SECRETARY' at WAR
explained the nature of the Barracks, to which
the Honourable Gentleman had alluded, and the
items of which the expellee was' composed ; beds,
&c. and assigned reasons for their amount ; as to,
the small been in the
.Isle of Wight, it was an at-
title that that was absolutely- necessary for the DUtch
troops that were there;' being consumed,. it ought
, to be paid.for. He 04,,erved, as, to accounts of ex-
pences at the War. (Dice, it was observable that
certain
,fees were ck4e. upon. tile transacting of.
certain business, bui that:. the business was
done by officers, who Lad certain stipends, and
by so, much as these fees eeeceeded the salaries, the
balanCe was in favour of the Public, for after pay-
ing these Gentlemen their stipends, the surplus
was applied in-aid of the publicburthen, and was
so far an abatement of taxes. On the 'subject. of
Barracks in Ireland; ha was ready to 'admit, that
further inquiry must be made, before the Accounts
could be in a state that could be said to be pettedly.
satistadory. As 40' the Barracks in England, he
would take upon himself to, say, that he , believed
the 'whole of the syStem of theme' was concluded
with as much croriorny as the nature of the subject
would admit ;, but he had` as much to regret as the
Hon. Gentleman had, that all the Accounts upon
this, as well as other Military matters, were not
broUght to: a conclusion.; but, after a war of nine
years, with such a vast mass of complicated matter,
as must necessarily have been brought forward in
the course of it, after such immense service, and.
vast expences in ail diredions, it was not wonderful.
if talents, equal to those of the Hon. Gentleman,
bad ndt been able to bring this matter at once to a
conclusion. , He then took a Yiew,of the labours of
Gentlemen concerned in audithsg Public AcCounts,'
and paid an.handsome tribute to their abilities, and
zeal and diligence in the Public Service ; and ob-
served, that the Hon. Gentleman seemed to have bat
a faint idea of the nature of the machine they had
'to manage.
General G ASCOY NE assigned reasons for the
difference between the chaNes of Barrack's, 'Coals,
&c. in Ireland and thOSe of this- Country, w'hich
arose from 'the late military situation of thar,ranch
of the Empire.
The Question was then put •and carried, and all
.the other 'Resolutions were agreed to.
Leave was given to bring in the Mutiny Bill on
the Motion Of the SECRETARY at WAR.
.The CHANCELLOR o.j. the'EXCHEQUER then
called the attention of the House to the subject of
the former conversation on the non-payment of the
.Bill at the Sick and Hurt, Office,. He said, cF I have

Hots as the ildllse dinsf tie A ik;,Ali.4; 61 an 0Pii6047,
nity of inquiring, with minuteness; intd the th4qge
brought forward the Hon. i3ritlettan (Mi:Rott:
but I have rEZeived information with tespea
to the particular instance which lie referred and
which, I think it material to state before the House
separates: The House will reColiettohat the Ho, a,
Genfittnari; in deteribing the degraded state of the
Government, as he calleditoaid that Government
ceptances had been refused payment, arid that undek
circumstances so general as to mark the degraded state
of Government; and a proof indisputable, of its itisol-
vency. He stated a fact, as he called it; to prove,
cisively, the truth of his general assertion, that Go.
vernment was insolVent, I have had information
of the fa& he alluded to, and by which I find that
the amount of the Bill accepted by Government, and
the non-payment of Which was, according to the
Hon. Gentleman's conclusion, to denote the
'vericy of Government, is £9l. 7s. That a Bill of
191, Is. was not paid at the Sick and Hurt Office is
the amount of the Charge of the Hon. Gentletrian;
and which he gives as a proof of the Insolvency of.
Government: Whether or riot the Bill was paid
remains to be _proved, • and shall be inquired into
but my information conies from the' same source as
the Hon. Member derives his Accusation. At all
events the instance of the Hon. Member of the Insol-
vency 'of Government is a Bill of 191. 75.!"

Mr. ROBSqN said that it was so mach t;le.
worse : the Bill, he said, was in the hands of a poor
rnan who wanted the money:

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.--
" An instance, perhaps, of barbarity, hut, not of
Insolvency. I hope it will turn colt to be neither ;
but at ail events it is ridiculous to call it an in-
stance of Insolvency. A charge of barbarity would
indeed be a great *barge if it was made, but it was
brought forward as a charge of Insolvency, for
which, and for which atom', the Hon.- IVlcmbeT pre-
sumed to state it."

Mr. ROBSON.—" malc every apology that
was possible." [Here tbeee were inz(rezar. s.]
When the SrEAKER observed there was'iio ques_
don before the House,.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the
Million Loan Bill, read, agreed to, and Bill order.
ed to be brought in pursuant to it. ' .
Mr,‘ ALEXANDER. brought up the Report of the....
Greenland Fishery Bill, -read, agreed to, Bill or-
dered to be ingrossed ; and to be read a third tiing
to-morrow, if then ingrossed.
The Cinnamon Duty Regulation Bill was read
a first time, and ordered to be read a second time
to.morrow.

Ordered, that the American Treaty Bill be read
a second rime to-morrow.

The Bill for amending the Lord's MI, common- •
ly called, the Insolvent Debtors' Bill, was commit-
ted to a Committee of the whole House, some
Clauses received, under an understanding that the
Bill into be discusscxl again upon its principlc, and'
perhaps, be re.committed, &c. Report received
inimediately.—Ordeted to. be printed, &c.—Fur_
titer consideration postponed to 3d May, on` the
Motion of Mr. WILLIAMS WYNNE.
At twepty minutes past seven the House at!.
jnurned.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS n:crier. :ALS= At/Di-AT!