The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-11 00:00:00

pbanUME had waited with great anxiety to know
"oat reason the Right Hon. Baronet could assign for
:or:tinning the number of men for the navy at the pre-
ent athount, and the only reason he could understaiel
nto assign was, that be could not be indifferent to
• at was passing across the Channel; but it was
though,sin-
`tnarperhaps,the Right Hon. Baronet
was „,
bee aware of it—that lately, in the French Chem
won a reduction in the number of men for the navy
eing proposed it was held that they ought not to re-
'Lee them too much, because the English navy was kept
tIP at
ao large a number.—(Hear, hear.) Thus the
s°'ren kept up a large number because the English did
and we made the number kept up by the French an
etizrcuse for our keeping up a large force as well. It was
gning in a circle. He had, however, expected to have
beard from the Chancellor of the Exchequer sorae ex-
etqhation before they were called on to vote the. number
"of men,B, of what the country was to expect from the
beget, It did not appear, from what had passed,
ether the present Government meant to propose
jtlroc;thcr Budget, but of this he was quits sure—:hat,
Ring from general opinion, both in and out of that
Pais
s", the Bud et alread before the Howe could not
. g
had; le wished his Hon. Friend (Mr. Williams)
th "'eked to other quarters, and hat told them who
1,,e United States were about. If there was any part ej
,e"c world to which they should look, when they lenee
•uht
IQ President in his message had said there were
an-uO,OOO tons of commercial shipping capable of being
hinverted to warlike purposes if required, that exietea
O? other part of the world. it wa, the United States.
teeir_BlliP! were spread over the world nearly as much
th."cse of the United Kingdom. When war was over
1/01 cut down their navy, and ho would just state to the
whantaewh.at they had been doing in comparison with
tar we in our madness had been doing. The b'ecre-.
or! of the Admiralty in America said they has
4 7 lne-of-battle ships, 12 frigates, !upon
stovrtiteit 7 steamers, and 5 store-shipi, and the
there were only 4 line-of-battle ships and 2 larg'
leal4te2- But we had lying idle 74 men-of-war which
to never been to sea; had launched a number equal
the
10,v , whole navy since the termination of the war;
.al-
t„) ea vessels to rot in ordinary, and went on buildings
et° without employing those that were already built.
"Pended no less than 2,000,0001. a-year in pulling
tot,'Ps to • • •
„r Pieces, in building ships, and in letting them
ti It was to that point he wished to call the atten-
e mr,,,°` the House. In America the President had re-
:14;744d a reduction of the active list, finding that
er,Commercial navy, almost as large as our own,
its present navy was too onerous to be kept up
toss' n 9 would ask the Government what political rea-
tei,' could induce them to keep up a fleet of eight or
sic saiof-the-line in the Mediterranean? All the sex.-
ett: !_that that large fleet had performed bad been to
04 ti , ett (Treece. But was it fit, with so many peti-
telat ri their table for retrenchment, that the pre-
tome4tuount of the navy should be kept up without
;hat" strong reasons being assigned for it ? He sae.
1,60°0 the 3d of March of this year no less than
Ns' Petitions, signed by 136,696 persons, had been
r:4,l,ated for the repeal of taxes, and Hon. Members
for „,e," hear in mind this vote of the number of met.
le '"'Q the principal expenditure, as everything must be
elerr°Portion. The Right Hon. Baronet had referred te
eheteduction which was made in the naval expenditure
Pts ,9ethe Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Ripon
te,:i',,,cd over the Admiralty; but the Right Hon. Baronet
1,00-'4 have told the House that that reduction was
the -'9OOl- out of 5,000,000/., while the reduction
1,(K)1011ght Bon. Baronet himself had effected was only
4041,000/. out of 8,000,0001. Earl Grey's Government,
N the Moment it came into office, went on reducing
hod
ttYear, and at the same time improving, for they
in evidence that, after reducing the expenditure
the Y 1,000,0001., the navy was in a better condition
441befare the Right Hon. Gentleman began his re-
'unlent•
ofthe and Mr. Douglas, who was at one time a
eioo •
Admiralty, on being asked by the Commis-
t4,, rs what check there was over the expenditure, said
e( 7,a8 check upon check until there was no check at
icr'irlear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
de1,,,,'13°h, and the Government to which he belonged,
Rath credit for great economy. He had no quarrel
Yett:Que Government on account of the navy until the
t11)4,'371838, when the charges became extravagant and
the icessary. What, too. had been the consequence sine
1844",°rae-tax had been proposed? In the years 1843
the 'a45,1846, and 1847,after that tax had been imposed.
itiert!'tithates increased no less than 27,000,0001.; the tax
theep roduced only 26,894,000/. during the same period;
11041,11 f the incoms-tax had been given up they nevet
ec
have had all that increase in the expenditure
faelcitild not conceive how it was that, with the present
Peedll.,g, of the country on the subject of reduction in ex-
to bvnre. the Government bad taken upon themselve-
Ntlng forward these estimates until they bad explained
4411thrt new Budget was to be.—(Hear, hear.) The
to th Dumber of men borne on the books of the navy
had ri Years 1835, 6,7, 8, was 29,638, and that number
over and over again stated to be amply suffi-
stele for the service of the country. Unless he had
reoer ,e Political reason clearly made out why that number
move uot be equally sufficient now, he should certain!)
prat that evening that the number of men voted for the
mutt ,„Year should not exceed 30,000. He protested
AfriQ'tnPhatic;llly against the longer maintenance of the
Iri4l,tten squadron, an experiment which, after 20 years'
had proved wholly ineffectual for any purpose other
cite ~lhe very mischievous ono of injuring our commer-
itOrlh('xiou and endangering our national friendship
IN well-disposed powers. There was now an excel-
this °PPortunity for handsomely getting clear of
Cad ,costly absurdity. The French Government
ola ,`" United S ates Government had both
14 tegotiations with Great Britain with a view
matte l'ing relieved from their engagements in the
'I
so that the grand difficulty in the way of remo-
t gth
'Sty , -0 squadron, insisted upon by our Foreign Secre•
ilej„,tst )ears was at au end.—(Clear, hear.) He
1110,71 test the opinion of the Committee upon the point
(lo "enieg, and he hoped he should find it disposed to
terZtY not only with the African squadron, but also
thaterially to reduce the squadron, or rather fleet,
tlienwe kept in the Mediterranean, with no other result
teeitnisebief and danger.—(Hear, hear.) Upon these
Iktilt"118 alone there might bet at once a most important
effected, and he called upon the 270 gentlemen
fret the other day demanded relief for agricultural dis-
tilt Lei he called upon them—(There was here a laugh at
fllln4t;tl,,,l`',at entirely empty condition of the Protectionist
Npe)--well, he called upon the 14 of them who had
gee ","t fit to be in their places on this occasion—(Hear,
tete7; he called upon them, if they desired honestly to
Dree„-e"cf, to join with him in obtaining that which must
Deed" relief from taxation—relief, namely, from ex-
Itteel,ure•—(llcar, hear.) Perhaps a few more of those
'ctee-rnch would come down and help him with their
re after dinner.—(A laugh.) In 1835 we had under
kle-,,'ssdrail 167 ships of all classes, with 36,500 men, a
18qe5 declared amply sufficient for every purpose. In
04 ,-the number was increased to 234 ships and
"kip,' Mon; and in 1848 there were voted '256
f,c/ti 'th with 43,000 men, the number really borne
hooks being 44,500. Now, this sort of thing
arts thnot be allowed to continue. It was very
Wi_er -,"4,t just now the manufacturing and artisan classes
7tP,Vierably well off, and provisions cheap, but he had
sgree or four reversals of such prosperity in his
i's.':ll.l4l it was not at all impossible that he might live
4‘t nother—such, for example, as that of 1843; and
the like to know what would the country then say
ptePresentatives who had permitted the present ex-
-14ti„`:41.0 to proceed?—(Hear, hear.) As to represen-
indeed, there could not be a greater reflection
t oUr
representation than the manner in which the
1,.41t:,,"°,1 allowed the country to go on for several
past without a Government, letting the people of
sae -44,4 bandied about between three sets of men, no
-,,PPe°,,,,w,uich could form a decent Administration. It
,"r)tilpli-j'A to him that Lord Stanley paid but a very poor
;es, faeut to the Protectionist party in that House
41.tLf0;',Ititated that there was only one man among them
s.ge th'uee• Surely of the 270 gentlemen or thereabout,
"toll,,"," other night voted for protection, there must be
PIPe talent to fill up the Treasury bench, the more
~IterklllY when it was borne in mind that all the real
ita,litignpch department was done by the clerks, who
atationary.—(A laugh.) It was not merely Mr.
iegel „17,110 made a jest of their proceedings, they were
-stock k of all Europe, and well they might be.
e,.5 did g c
not see, when the Old Doctor," as Mr. Punch
I,tcs 1,41 ed a well.k own personage, was sent for, upon the
judiciousably n
advice. of the Noble Lord, that all
);ett, Doctot" would direct would be "As you were?"
kcal th 44 not one improvement in any way connected
e,?1(1 t\-6 departments with which he had to do, that the
therefore`d not done his best to stop; for suc a
(',ti.:;, to be called in was utterly preposterous.
fts.r bitt;•eY didn't send for you I") No, they didn't send
the
doctor ad been pretty nearly as long in prac-
"44letne hat was sent for—CA laugh)—had
the believed, tmore attention to passing events for
le killesht twenty Years— (Hear, hear)—and very possibly
oldclqtotpave prescribed rather better than the other
ss hii had done.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Itn
~c!'t tit a °Pinion that the country looked upon them as
kirlults for allowing things to go on as they had gone
her, I'g the last two or three weeks.—(Hear, hear.)
ritlolW„cre 658 Hon. Gentlemen, representatives of the
~,"t)rtiitlpuL Greet Britain and Ireland, utterly incapable of
"4Y t° a decision upon great national questions one
israble the other,—(Hear, hear.) There was this nai-
'trod .t-is Pal Aggression Bill; why, passed as it was
Of lite A
Itt that Bill would involve imminent danger
ei;icialbe-i;vd war in the sister country, yet 330 or 350
eet's of that House had voted for it in its
'toest°t• He trusted that the Noble Lord would
1r). bring in a Bill that would satisfy the coun-
t? attl3°4 the subject or give up legislation upon
,?,11,1t j,,,.ether.—(Hear, bear.) But, at all events,
)411 fee' the business of the country be at a stand
NOQ,-' three other weeks or more. Rather than this,
iii;,,Nliosi,hc Should deprecate anything tending to excite
,"teer:"Pery" cry, he should say her Majesty had
•5 - ..14 • w
thiNel t
o'"' recourse to a general election. In fact, this
be the only effectual remedy; for suppose
"tit •„": of 39,000 men refused, the Cabinet would cry
WI :14 `:,of
cannot go on." The House would say, "You
teet °T,.'e” The Cabinet would say, "We won't get
*,"lnld Old Doctor would again be called in, there
the prescription as before, of " As you were; '
tht' aie~e ferce would, for the second time, be pre-
,i--(Laughter and cries of Hear. hear.") He
ail,t
th,
e PracticallClte eqiuiCeMsitiiotngse, gentlemen would look practi-
tivca*Y- na',etings, calling names, and. of getting up futile
and imputing evil rno-
telll/41. p other people, At the Norfolk
~ meeting, the
1:0ti.4,:"13', for example, with a Noble Lord in the chair,
afad ort(! the speakers stigmatized the parliamentary
fie '4B as men who wanted to dethrone the Queen
liNia courage rebellion, end so on; a Mr. Ball, in par-
0a 1.1
"hag languag'e which ought at once to have
teetiutrohibited by the chairman. Now, what the'Pro-
Ned t't• gentlemen should underetaed was, that there
tles,,,eue 110 relief for them, any more than for other
Paql;'Su
5 uut'a there was a decided reduction in our ex.
hi„ r°,
1" l the destruction uf agriculturist mil'mono-
-10111 Of money had been trans-