The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-12 00:00:00

FEBRUARY 12, 1851.

landlord-30s. and 2'. per acre, when I firmly believe, that
if it would feed a snipe, that is the only two-?noted or four-
footed animal it would feed. I have seen lands which, six
years ago, were in an apparently as hopeless a state, and which
at this moment exhibit an aspect of fertility contrasting in a
manner as retnarkable as it was gratifying whit their former
condition ; and though I will not say this increased fertility,
has been obtained without a considerable expenditure--al-
though I will not say that fin the first two or three years
the outlay of the tenants, men undoubtedly of science, unit
ability, and capital, has been repaid—yet sure I am that out-
lay is in course of permanent, and certain, and not very gra-
dual or slow return." • What he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) would say to the agriculturists would be the
language of the Noble Lord, simply altering it so as to apply
to the whole body of the agriculturists of England, that
which he had add,essed to the farmers of that district.
" With those prospects before us, this spirit which I see
among you, with the spirit which I see among the leading
proprietors, and among those who are using their high situa-
tion for the purpose of showing the way to improvement, 1
caenct despair, but, on the contrary, I look with confidence on
the successful issue of this system, and I pray you not to re-
lax in your elite ts—let them continue, let landlords pull to-
g,ea her is one j,.int endeavour ter our cornmen welfare, and we
snail never despair of the permanent prosperity of the agri-
cult ore of England." Such, lie beli,ved, was not the langii.ig,
of des air, bat of enconragemeht to those witout he then
aliln.t.isod, and which it was proper to addre,,s to the
whole agricultural body of 1: As all other
bodies from whom protection hail been remove,f hal suf-
fered, so were that body suffering ; but t hey would
revive, and their future prosi,erity would be more suite ant!
permanent than any which they hail before experieiceit.
With regard to the House at large and the motion now be-
fore it, Its ceultl but repeat what he had sail before, that lie
could but view the motion in one view, and that wee, that
there was but one mode of carrying out the prepo.-al
which it contained, namely, by re imposing some of
those taxes which had recently boea removed. If! called
upon the House to negative that motion. He had mimed
lust session the speech of Mr. Huskisson upon which that
policy had been founded, which had been followed front
that time, and which had received a fuller development as
a consequence of the measure passed by Sir Robert Peel.
That policy he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had sup-
ported when out of office, and her Majesty's present Govern-
ment had endeavoured to carry it out ever since their acces-
sion to power. Gratefully had they to acknowledge the
support which that great statesman had always afforded to
them in the carrying out of that policy. It was upon such
an occasion as the present that they felt more deeply the loss
of the support which the Right Hon. Gentleman had always
given to those views. It was with unequal powers and with
less right that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) now
urged the House to reject a motion like the present. He
called upon those who had concurred with the Right Hon.
Gentleman in proposing those measures, and he called upon
the majority of the House, whether on one side or the other,
who had always supported their measures, to stand by them
now, for he firmly believed that after trial and experience
they would be found to be as beneficial to the agricultural
interest as they had been to every other class of the commu-
nity,
from one end of the land to the other.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HODGSON hoped that as Cumberland, in which he
resided, had been referred to, the House would allow him to
make one or two remarks, and extend to him the kindness it
usually afforded to a Member who had grievances or dis-
tresses of his constituents to state.—(Hear, hear.) In the
city which he represented (Carlisle) the cotton manufacture
had been carried on to a considerable extent, partly for ex-
portation and partly for home consumption ; but the de-
mand had wholly ceased, and the operatives were out of
employ.—(Hear, hear.) There were hundreds who wanted
the bare means of subsistence, and hundreds more who earned
a very scanty maintenance by occasional work.—(Hear,
hear.) So great was the distress, that the mayor called
a meeting of the inhabitants last week to see what could
be done, and a public subscription had been entered,..into
to support those operatives by charity.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Hodgson) was afraid he could not give a
much better account of the state of the agricultural
interest. He knew of many farms in Cumberland being
relet this Candlemas; but every one had been let at a
very considerable reduction of rent. A friend of his, who
had a farm let at 6001. a year, was glad to get a tenant at
3401.—(Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
stated the rate of wages of agricultural labourers in Cumber-
land as averaging about 12s. Now, though there might be
some isolated spots where as much as that might be paid, the
average rate he knew was not more more than Bs. or 9s.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under-
stood to intimate that he spoke of the northern districts of
the country generally.
Mr. HODGSON—WeII, things did not appear much more
prosperous in the neighbouring county. He had with him a
recent number of the Newcastle Courant, in which he found
forty-one advertisements of farms to be let.—(hear, hear.) If
that was the case in a county quoted by the Right lion.
Gentleman as as au instance of agricultural prosperity, it
was difficult to give him credit for his statements in respect
to other parts of the country.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Birmingham attributed the existing distress to.
the currency laws; others, ascribed it to the excited state
of the continent, and said that when the people there be-
came tranquil prices would rise here. He (Mr. Hodgson)
believed that the great remedy for our distress was a reduc-
tion of taxation.—( Hear, hear.) But he could not see much,
chance of that, if the Noble Lord at the head of the Go-
vernment would maintain such extravagant fancies as the
African slave squadron—(Hear, hear)—and fill up places
which Committees recommended to be abolished.—( Hear,
hear.) Let him take in hand to reduce the pennon list.—
(Hear, hear.) A list of persons receiving pensions from the
State had just been issued; and although he (Mr. Hodgson)
was considered to hold rather Conservative opinions, it al-
most tempted him to become a Radical.—(Hear, hear.) lie
felt that it was monstrous to think there should be persons
eating the bread of idleness, while there was starvation
among his constituents.—(Hear, hear.) He should feel hills
,tuty to vote for every reduction of taxation that might be
proposed, provided it did not appear to be injurious to the
public service, or to endanger the public honour.—(Hear.)
Mr. G. BERKELEY thought it was rather bold to charge
the Hon. Member (Mr. Disraeli) with not asking anything
by his motion. Even at the time of the famine in Ireland,
Ministers called Parliament together without having a pro-
position to make to them ; and in other instances they had
come down to ask the opinion of the llouse, without having
one of their own to suggest.—(Hear.) The Government re-
luctantly admitted agricultural distress, anti required that
interest to look for its amelioration to the better situation of
the manufacturing classes; but why were the agriculturists
to be told to wait upon the prosperity of the manufacturing
classes? Would the Government have proposed the con-
verse to the Member fur the %Vest Riding, or for Manchester?
(Hear, hear.) True, provisions were cheap, but they were
not purchased from the home producer, and the reliance of
the two interests on each other had been destroyed. The
Honourable Member for Birmingham (Mr. Muntz ) truly
stated that the manufacturers were eating up the farmers,
and the same idea applied to the agricultural labourers;
they were purchasing cheap provisions, but at the sacrifice
of their masters.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Berkeley) did
not believe the account of the flourishing state of the glove
trade.—(Hear, hear.) Why was no answer given to the
inquiry about the riot in Suffolk? Since the question had
been put, he had had information that the riot din take place,
and that the fact was well known in London. Fifty police-•
men were unable to quell the disturbance; the military were
called out ; the house was gutted. The union inmates rose
upon the officers and drove them away; the union-house was
too full for any restraint to be put upon them. It was with
the greatest difficulty the riot was quelled. Would any one
say the Government were ignorant of that? Might it not be
fairly inferred that it was kept back that the debate might
go off smoothly? In other places, in England and in Ire-
land, there were union-houses so full, that riots were
threatened in a hundred different parts. It was said that
pauperism had decreased, and the testimony of the Hon.
Member for Dorset had been given as to the labourers there ;
but in that county it had been thought necessary to propose to
increase the salary of the gaoler. In Gloucestershire the num-
ber of paupers and of commitments had decreased, but that was
because free trade and the reduction of wages had driven the
able-bodied men to emigrate. The dietaries of the prisons were
better than those of the workhouses, and tempted paupers to
commit workhouse offences. In Gloucestershire there had
been no general benefit arising from cheaper food.—(Hear.)
How much longer were the agriculturists to suffer under the
" experiment" that had already been tried for five years?
The Royal Speech disposed of, the charge that the out-
cry was for the sake' of rents. Ile held that the greatest
boon that could be conferred on the country would be a dis-
solution of Parliament. He was quite convinced that if that
were to occur there were not many of its present Members
who would be again returned. Look at the country in
which point of view they would, they found nothing but a
feeling of distrust and dissatisfaction prevailing. If the
present state of things was to continue, how would the agri-
cultural labourers be able to earn those wages wherewith to
purchase those cheap provisions of which the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was so ready to boast? Unless the present
motion was supported, or unless Ministers were forced into
some • great measure of redress, the country would be
speedily plunged into a state of disunion, discontent, and
confusion.

Mr. G. SANDERS (who was very indistinctly heard in the
gallery) said he believed that if the policy of free trade
was to be reversed it should.be reversed by the feeling out
of doors, and it was idle to expect its reversal through any
vote of that House. Her Majesty had admitted in her
gracious Speech from the Throne that the agricultural
interests in this country were in a state of distress ; and that
admission had saved much needless discussion. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer might
under these circumstances have avoided the statistical
details into which he had entered with a view to show that
a state of comparative prosperity prevailed in some parts of
the country. The existence of general distress among the
agricultural body was a fact universally admitted. Then
there arose the question what had been the cause of that
distress. In the year 1848 they had been told _that the agri-
cultural distress at that period had been owing to a deficient
harvest; in the year 1850 they had been told that the agri-
cultural distress had been owing to the abundant harvest of
the year 1849 ; while in the present year the distress continued
after the deficient harvest of 1850. It was pretty clear,
therefore, that the evil was not to be traced solely to the
character of the preceding harvest. They had last year
been told by her Majesty's Ministers that the imports of corn
from foreign countries could not continue under the low
prices for agricultural produce which had then prevailed.
But the result had falsified that prediction, and the importa-
tions had since continued, while the prices had not been
raised. We had receives large importations of corn from
France in the course of the last year; and, although the
Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had said at that time that those importations could not
be continued, be was himself at present compelled to admit
that they had been still greater during the present year.
During the last twelve months we had received large impor-
tations of corn from all the great corn-producing countries
of the world. He had on a former occasion expressed his
belief that, under a system of free trade the price of wheat in
this country would rule from about 355. to about 40s. a quarter;
while the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) had stated that, in his opinion, it would rule at
between 40s. and 50s. a quarter; but he (Mr. Sanders)
believed that all recent experience bad confirmed the accu-
racy of his estimate. He still thought that from 355. to 40s.
a quarter would be the ruling price under the free-trade
system. But he believed that the agricultural interest in
this country could not c-ntinue to produce wheat at that
price. It would be impossible for the British producer of
corn to compete with the foreigner, unless there were a re-
duction in his rent, or in his taxes, or in the price of labour.
The class among the agricultural body which had most
suffered, or which alone had suffered, was the class of tenant-
farmers ; and he would tell Hon. Gentlemen around him, that
under the free-trade system they might depend upon it
that rents must come down. The price of labour had not
hitherto been much reduced; but he believed that
atmany of
the agriculturists had been employing labour w was to
them unprofitable, and that they had given work to labourers
rather than have to support those labourers in the work-
house. He should remind the House that foreign countries
did not reciprocate our free-trade policy ; and the value of
our imports from France, America, and other countries, had
become greater than. the value of the exports which we sent
to them, The American President had strongly advocated
in his Message the
policy of encouraging native agriculture.
He ked bow it was possible to have agricultural produce

at present prices? lie referred to the average prices between
1835 and 1850. The average price in 1835 was 391, and last
year -10 i.; but all the other articles of produce were higher
in 1835 than they were at prevent; but the low price in
1835 was the consequence of good harvests, and last year
the low price w:.4 the result of the large imports of forc•igrt
produce. The Hon. Member was next understood to say that
the exchange at the present time was against them; and
having referred to the admission of agricultural distress, he
said that it was the duty of her Majesty's Ministers, with a
large surplus, to apply relief to those classes where it was de-
clared to be most needed.
Mr. BROWNE explained a former statement made by
him, and to which reference had been made by the Hon.
Member for Buckingham. What he had alluded to was not
the freight alone of corn from the United States ; he refer-
red to other expenses of transmitting corn its loss Of
weight, the interest on capital, insurance, stowage, metage,
cartage, and he was sure that his statement was correct—
that he had underrated the cost. Ile hoped when the Hun.
Gentleman again quoted him, he would do so correctly. He
congratulated Hon. Gentleuien opposite on the success of that
pokey which had killed Chartism—that it enabled country
gentlemen to enjny their comforts with peace and dignity,
and to %leip easy on their beds Ile congratulated theme m
the state in which they were,.—.(Laughter. )
he Marqull on GRAN BY moved the adjournment of the
debate.

Mr. DISRAELI appreled to lion. Gentlemen who had
motions on the paper for Thursday to p:istpone them for it e
purpose of pmluitting this debate to be proceeded with. It.
wouiti be very convenient it this were done, as there was a
probability of bringing the deflate to a termination on that
eight.—(ilea .) Ire appealed to the Hon. Member for Essex
whose motion stood first on the fist.—(Hear.)
Sir E. BUXTON said h t was very unwilling to give way
unless some other day could be fixed fur bringing tOrward his
motion. lie trusted that the Noble Lord would, in order to
have this debate continued, tix a day when his motion might
be brought forward, and in that case be would postpone his
mot ioni

Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite had made a reasonable request that the House should
be enabled to go on with this debate on Thursday, as it would
be very inconvenient to have it interposed by another very
important question. He could not think, however, it was
very reasonable to ask him to make a day for the Hon. Baro-
net, as the Government was required to bring forward the
estimates on Mondays and Fridays. He thought it would
be better for the Hon. Baronet to bring forward the question
to which he referred on a motion day.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought the Government was shrink-
ing, but the time was coming when the Noble Lord and the
Free-traders would be ejected.—( Hear, and laughter.)
The motion that the debate be adjourned to Thursday next
was theu agreed to.

SUNDAY TRADING.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
prevent unnecessary trading on Sunday within the metro-
politan police district and the city of London and the liber-
ties thereof.

Mr. B. WALL opposed the motion. He objected to such
a Bill being brought in at so late an hour in the evening.
Lord D. STUART supported the motion.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS replied.
The question having been put, a division was called for.
The numbers were—
Ayes
Majority in favour of the motion for
leave to bring in the Bill ... —5l
The Bill was accordingly brought in and read a first time.
Mr. WILLIAMS moved that it be read a second time this
day fortnight.
Mr. ANSTEY asked, on behalf of those who were most
interested in the measure, to have it postponed for a longer
period.
It was finally settled that the second reading should be
taken on Wednesday, the 4th March.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock.

.. 70