The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-09 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 9, 1833.

,---
MARTIN and CO., 8, CORNHILL, be-
ing the authorized Agents for the SALE of the
GLASGOW LOTTERY beg leave to inform the Public,
that the Drawing will take place on the 17th of April.
The Scheme contains
3 Prizes of 10,000/.,
Besides many other Capitols. The holders of the Prizes
will have the option of receiving the Property or Money
on demand, allowing a discount of 5 per cent.
It is in the recollection of the Public, that MARTIN
and CO. sold No. 261, a Prize of 20,000/., as first drawn
entitled to another of 20,000/., making a Grand Prize of
40,0001. ; such good fortune never occurred to any other
Office.
Orders from the Country, enclosing remittances, will
be,' .lv executed.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

Often as Aye, in concurrence with others of our
contemporaries, have discharged the repulsive du:y
of exhibiting the dreadful state of Ireland, and the
necessity of applying to it some measure of effective
mitigation, we apprehend that the public mind is
hardly as yet as much alive to the subject as it,
extreme urgency requires. How, indeed, should it

be so ? English newspapers are not the natural
channels through which the true impression re-
specting Irish grievances might best be nsade
upon mankind ; the proper fountains and conduits
of intelligence from the sister island ought to be of
native origin. The Irish Government,—the Irish
press,—and, above all, the numerous and not uncom-
municative gentlemen of Ireland, in Parliament and
out of it, are sources whence truths, political, ec-
clesiastical, and social, in relation to that country,
might, one would think, be easily and abundantly
extracted. Yet, how is it ? The press is not
merely tinged, but ulcerated, with the poison
of faction. The landed proprietors, including the
magistracy, are, to all appearance, unconscious of
the nature of those evil habits in which they have
been born and brought up ; while the Government
itself, with the best intentions, has no direct means
of acquiring a knowledge of Ireland but through
that envenomed press, and that ignorant, infatuated,
mis-ruling, and unteachable proprietary. Then come
the Reformers—the so-called " Reformers" of Irish
grievance, and regenerators of the ruined land.
They, at least, ought to be enlightened teachers of
the world as to the kind and extent of those diseases
for which they proclaim themselves to be in posses-
sion of a sovereign remedy. What do we hear from
them ? Ist. That the Established Church is
grievance, and must be abated (and so it is, and
must be modified, but not for the reason they as-
sign); because, if the peasantry and small farmers
pay even a moiety of tithe to the parson, they can-
not also pay the landlord his rent. 2d. That too
many Englishmen, or Protestants, are employed
in the several departments of state,—that the
police have not, or had not, a sufficient sprink-
ling of Catholics,—that among the stipen-
diary magistrates there are not a sufficient
number of Catholics,—that the Vestry Act is
a nuisance, and ought to be got rid of (as, indeed,
it is)—finally, that the Union is a horrible grievance,
and must, above all things, be repealed (which, we
opine, it is not, and will not be—but that by the
way). Now, of all these flagrant grievances there
seems to us to be not one the redress of which,ifunac-
companied by other expedients, would substantially
serve the interests of any human being below the
rank of what is called in Ireland " a gentleman."
The breaking up of the Church Establishment as an
isolated measure would but raise the rent of land;
so would an exemption of Catholics from taxation
by the vestry. A different allotment of chairman-
ships of counties, and other stipendiary magistracies,
might yield to some few dozens of professional Ca-
tholics a larger share of the public money ; and as
for a repeal of the Union, it would place Ireland
(so long as her present frenzy endured) at the feet
of Mr. O'Connell. But are there no other evils in
Ireland than Church, and Vestry Act, and
a Protestant bench of justice, and a Legislative
Union with Great Britain P " The gentle-
men" Reformers, to be sure, say nothing of any
other class but themselves being aggrieved—or
rather, in admitting the poor man's wrongs, they
prescribe as a cure what would be a mere mockery
of his sufferings under them. What cares the
hungry peasant about a transfer of tithe from the
clergyman's into the landlord's pocket ? What
boots it to him that 20 or 30 Catholics, instead of

so many Protestants, should draw official incomes
from the public purse ? Would the wretch gain a
day's work more in the week, or sixpence more of
wages in a twelvemonth, by a repeal of the incorpo-
rating Union, of which one speedy effect would be
to admit the raw produce of foreign soils into the

consumption of this country on the same terms as
that of Ireland ? No,—we are not denying (far
from it) that every ascertained national grievance,
whether in principle or practice, ought at once to be
redressed. An ►njury to one numerous class of any
nation, reacts eventually, though not directly, on
every other, and is at all times, and ought to be
deemed at all times, the general concern of society.
If, therefore, the Catholic gentlemen, profes-
sional or other, have cause to murmur at his
exclusion from the honours or emoluments which
are fairly his due, we do not question the right of
the Catholic peasant to sympathize with him, and
aid his demand of justice. So on the contrary, if
the peasant suffer,—if he be disgracefully and barba-
rously dealt with,—if his condition he without ex-
ample in the history of human misery and degrada-
tion,—if by famine he be driven to frenzy and to
wickedness,—if in old age—in infancy—in disease
—in matchless privation,—he be left to perish with-
out one ray of comfort, without pity from individuals,
or succour from laws which were made neither by
nor for him,—is not, we ask, the complaining
:‘ gentleman" bound to return the sympathy which
he has craved from his humble neighbour, and to
secure the latter a full share of redress for his in-
juries ? How, then, do the Irish gentlemen,—so
loud in their invectives against the system to which
they ascribe their own discontents,—how do they
speak of the unfortunate peasant, to whose pas-
sions they appeal in the name of the "common
country ?" They impute his misery to every cause
but the right one, and pertinaciously refuse
him the only means of relief which would be
worth a halfpenny. They talk about oppres-
sion in the gross, about tithes and unions, and so
forth ; but when they come to a legal provision for
the poor—when it is a question whether he whose
political wrongs so touch them shall starve, or by
their vote be saved from starving, " Oh, that is
quite another affair—poor-rates are things which
we can by no means authorize." Mr. Barron, a
Repealer, stated broadly that the Irish landlords
would have no compulsory provision for the poor.
Mr. Finn, a hot Repealer, " deprecated" the in-
troduction of poor laws. Mr. O'Connell, said by
some, before he left Ireland, to have been a Repealer,
entirely reprobates poor laws. Why, then, let us
stifle the indignation which all but chokes us, and
ask the poor peasantry, " Are these the men to
whom you will surrender yourselves, tied neck and
heels,--let them be the Parliament makers and law-
givers of Ireland—that they may everlastingly de-
fraud you and your families of all claim to a sus-
tenance out of that soil which owes its fertility,
as its owners do their influence, to your labour
and to that alone ?" A blessed specimen this
of what the poor houseless, hungry Irishman
might expect front the repeal millenn►um ! A fine
proof of the sincerity with which his welfare is cared
about by political projectors ! Sir Robert Peel was
irresistible in his challenge to the agitators to inform
him " how Ireland had practically suffered from the
Union." The Right Hon. Baronet and Mr. Ma-
caulay were equally unanswerable in their reasoning
upon the ruin which must follow to Ireland from
the repeal. The agitators themselves have taken
pains to apprise the peasantry that no poor man
(whatever an ambitious man of fortune might do)
that no poor man could have anything but inexo-
rable disregard of his interests and well-being to
expect from such a revolution. Let the angry mul-
titude consider this truth at the next display of
anti-union rhetoric in Ireland. We are compelled
by want of space, to stop here, but we shall Ohl
Monday make some remarks more at large on the

(PRICE 713.)

debate, which, thank Heaven, is at last concluded

Times.

The tiresome and useless debate upon the address,
by which the Movement party have thought fit to
waste the time of the Legislature, and impede the
important business of the nation for a whole week,
was last night brought to a fitting termination, by
the signal and complete discomfiture of this mis-
chievous body. The triumph of the cause of law
and order, which we have the satisfaction to ao-
rsounce, is mainly to be ascribed to the magnanimous
and patriotic conduct of the Conservative Alember.
of the House of Commons, who, generously sacri-
ficing every consideration of a personal or party na-
ture, and consigning to oblivion the past offences of
their political opponents, perceived merely that those
opponents needed their aid, afid that by affording
it upon this occasion they could best promote the
safety and welfare of their country. The division
upon Mr. O'Connell's amendment was—

For the amendment
Against it 428
Majority 3BEi
Upon that of Mr. Tennyson the numbers were—
For the amendment 6O
Against it 393
Majority -333

We sincerely congratulate the anti-revolutionary part
of the community upon this triumphant result, for
we do not hesitate to claim for them the largest share
in the victory which has been won.—Morn. Post.
The debate on the address is at length brough,
to a close. This morning the House divided- -
First, on the amendment of Mr. ()Tonne, when
the numbers were—

For the amendment
Against it 428
Leaving to Ministers a majority of —3BB
Next, en the amendment of Mr. Tennyson, when
the numbers were 60 to 393, leaving to Ministers as
majority of 333. We are glad to hear from all
sides of the House an admission, that the outrage-
and disorders of the Irish are caused by the ex-
cessive competition for land, and the disproportionate
exactions, in the shape of rent, to which it leads ;
and that no hope can be entertained of any change
for the better, till some means are taken to extricat
the peasantry from their dependent situation. The
tyranny exercised by the Whitefeet is no doubt hor-
rible ; but Sir Robert Peel, in expressing his
horror of it, ought to have considered the ty-
ranny in connection with its cause. " Nothing
(said the Right lion. Baronet) could be more atro-
cious than the tyranny which the Whitefeet exer-
cised.—(Hear, hear.) It was a tyranny more op-
pressive to the poor than to the rich. It was
not applied to the rich, who could either defend
themselves on their estates by barricading their
houses, and garrisoning them with parties of soldiers
or police, or could quit their estates, and reside in
safety in some neighbouring town. The real tyranny
was exercised upon the poor man who was anxious
to conform to the law, and could not quit his farm,
but who, for the allegiance and the obedience which
he was ready to pay to the law,-had a right to ask
for protection for his life, if not for his property."
And then the Right Hon. Baronet mentioned a ca-e
of an old man who, nine months ago, had paid 101.
for two acres of land, and was called on by a party
of Whitefeet to abandon to them his only means o'
existence, and who, for refusing to give up his little
farm, unless the 101. he had paid for it was repaid
to him, was visited with the usual penalty—death.
This is no doubt a horrible state of things ; but
when the Right Hon. Baronet talks of the old man
having a right to ask for protection for his life, if
not for his property, for the allegiance which be was
himself ready to pay to the law, the Right Hon.
Baronet loses sight of the circumstances which led
to the perpetration of the outrage. God forbid the.
we should be the apologists of murder and bloodshed;
but man is not naturally cruel and malevolent, and
it is proper that we should inquire how these White-
feet came to be so. We apprehend the inquiry
need riot be a long one. The law affords these
Whitefeet no protection for life and property, but
would throw them out to perish in a ditch, and
it is to avert that fate that they resort to in-
timidation, that any one disposed to take their
possessions over their heads, may be deterred by the
example of the victims. It is indeed an awful state
of things. The law is entirely in the interest of
the landlords. It is true, as Sir Robert says, that
the poor are alone the sufferers, because the land-
lords may barricade themselves, or withdraw to
some town; but Sir Robert has not stared that the
outrages are a struggle among the poor themselves
who shall be sacrificed. The man ejected from his
farm would be consigned to destruction, and be de-
stroys that he may not himself be destroyed. It is
the struggle between two shipwrecked men for a
plank capable of supporting only one. The law
would crush one set of victims, and they endeavou'
to avert their fate by suspending the same fate over
t he heads of all who might become the instru-
ments under the law of effecting their destruction.
So long as landlords are vested by law with power of
life and death over the miserable cultivators,so long
will the latter look for protection not to the law,
but to the means by which they can render it a dead
letter. Lord Ebringtor► said, he knew of no laws
by which the evils entailed by a redundancy of po
pulation could be remedied, and the high rent, the
consequence of the competition for land, caused by
that redundancy. Then his Lordship knows no
means whereby outrages can be prevented, for ex-
treme destitution and obedience to the law can-
not co-exist. Then his Lordship abandons his
functions as a legislator in despair? 0 no!
Though he knows no means of securing obedience
to the law, by rescuing the people from extreme
destitution, he is still ready to vote measures to,
destroying the violators of the law. Lord Ebring-
ton is a worthy man, the last person in the world
to whom any one would think of imputing inhuma-
nity. But still we are all of us more or less in-
fluenced by our position in society. The landlord-
think of law only with reference to themselves, and
a legislature of landlords only thought of law as u
means of enforcing payment of their rents. The
good of the people, which ought to be the object
of law, never occurred to them. With the means
for enforcing payment of rent ought to have been
conjoined protection of the people against desti-
tution. In this protection, through a system of poor
rates, there would have been an equivalent to the
maximum of rent alluded to by his Lordship, and
he consequence would have been order and peace.
These axioms are as old as Aristotle, who was at
pains to show that no country could enjoy domestic
tranquillity, if the needy were not relieved by a tax,
and means taken to guard against a redundancy of
population by emigration and otherwise. We have
now a Legislature into which the representatives o'
the middle classes largely enter; and though they
who represent the middle classes are generally of
the higher class, yet they must attend to the opi-
nions and wishes of their constituents. We may
expect now that legislation shall no longer be
directed towards the protection of the rich, but that
the interests of other classes will also be takes'
into consideration. Had we had such a Legisla-
ture as we now have, the law would long ago
have embraced the interests of the peasantry
of Ireland us well as the interests of the landlords.
But we must now make up for lost time. We
attach little importance to the powers claimed by
Ministers, knowing as we do that the desperation
en-
gendered by destitution cannot be subdued by co-
ercion- It is of bad augury that so much sympathy
should be manifested for the destitute ministers of a
sinecure Church, while the peasantry has been al-

to—peWhy thousand, in ditches, without
consideratign: bo, ever, must no longer be
the case. The land of Ireland, on the principle
that the land of every country belongs to all its in-
habitants, and though individual occupying be
permitted for the general good, the original right of
the people most still be admitted to the extent that
the occupants shall be bound to protect the poor
against destitution. The poor laws of England,
with all their defects, are the noblest feature in the
legislation of England, connecting as they do every
man with his country. As the late Lord Liverpool
expressed it, they give to every man a home, and
they bind together the richest and the poorest. The
and
that pToritiannetspoufrpose, a
yesterday forcibly observed that
" Irish landlords are averse to the establishment of poor
laws. The fact is, indeed, well known, and entirely charac-
teristic of the caste, with the exception of Mr. James Grattan,
who has repeatedly brought Bills into Parliament for that ins-
vethrye
whole body of Irish proprietors few other gentlemen. We are
given to understand
hold the name of poor laws in abhorrence. But the instruc-
tive part of the matter is, that Mr. O'Connell has declared
himself hostile to the institution of poor laws—that is to say
;in other words), anxious for the continuance, of the Irish pea-
santry in a state of hopeless misery and destitution. The
priests are not so. Dr. Doyle has written, no long time ago,
an admirable and unanswerable pamphlet in recommendation
of a legal provision for the otherwise helpless poor. All Eng-
land cries shame upon the heartless system which annually ex- .
patriates so many thousands of Irish paupers, quartering them,
first upon English industry, and, when that fails, upon the funds
more rightfully appropriated to the relief of English want."
But we trust this heartless system will be suffered
to exist no longer. The funds of the Church
(saving always to incumbents their incomes) ought
of course to be in part applied to the chief object
for which property was originally granted to the
Church—the maintenance of the poor. It was as
guardians of the poor that property was at first
granted to the clergy, though, as has been well ob-
served by a learned historian, never was there a more
costly set of collectors, for in process of time the
funds of the poor were collected at upwards of 95
per cent. A motion, of which notice has been given
by Mr. Richards for the 7th of March, will bring
the question of poor laws before the House. It is
thus enticed on the votes :
" Mr. Richards—Bill to invest the tithes now payable to the
clergymen of the Established Church in Ireland in trustees,
cifor trehes bnr
arising
ne_fig
Bt
from tohc
reaappi
isoteaolar
taxnr elsri
eed i
;ni
in the
ehr
eels,
epp
ate, cyntid:
iveeen,ptl aaortfli s
tliihnee-s
and
t
stipends due to the existing Ministers of the establishment ;
and for providing for the reduction of that establishment, as
vacancies occur in the respective Bishoprics, Deaneries, Chap-
ters, Rectories, and other Benefices, until the whole may be
provided for out of the Church lands, and the public be re.
lieved from the tax as now imposed."
Colonel Torrens last night made some observa-
tions on the effect of employing capital in cultiva-
tion in Ireland, which, with all deference to the
Gallant Officer, do not give a correct representa-
tion of the matter :
" He was prepared," he said, " to prove that the introduc-
tion of capital into Ireland, instead of making things better,
would make them worse. Take the capital from England, or
from the moon, but get it. Well, then, when it was carried to
Ireland, it could not be employed in maufactures there. No
person could be so absurd as to suppose that all the capital in
Lombard-street could create in Kent or Sussex manufactures
to compete with those of the North of England. In fact,
manufactures must go where fuel was cheap. If capital could
not carry manufactures to Kent or Sussex, how could it carry
them to Dublin or Cork ? While the trade was a coasting trade
and Ireland had to compete with England, there could be
no manufactures in Ireland. What was the consequence ? Why
that Ireland, in connexion with England, must necessarily em.
ploy her labourers in the cultivation of the soil. What, then,
would be the result of the increased capital ? Capital would
establish an improved method of agriculture, and would intro-
duce into Ireland the systems of Norfolk and the Lothians ;
and what would be the consequence ?---that any given quantity
of labourers would cultivate more than they did at present ; so
that there would be less employment for any number of people
upon any given extent of surface. In England there was snore
agricultural capital than in Ireland, and in England, on any
farm whatever, there were fewer labourers than on a farm of
the same extent in Ireland. The same would be the case
there, and the amount of the surplus population would be in-
creased. It was true, it would raise the value of land, and
raise rent, and the Hon. Member for Banbury would base
another opportunity of referring to the increased exports of
Ireland ; they would only prove the increased distress."
The Gallant Colonel here proves a little too much.
It is very true that fewer hands would raise the
same amount of food which is at present raised,
But the increased expenditure on the land, would
increase the produce, as he himself assumes, when
he states that there would be increased exports, in-
creased value of land, and increased rents. Ireland
is, in fact, wretchedly cultivated, and might be
made to produce perhaps thrice the quantity of food
it now produces. Though fewer hands would be
required to produce the same quantity of food, it
does not follow that the increased quantity would
employ fewer hands. Belgium is admirably culti-
vated, but it is more densely peopled than lielsrid.
But increasing quantities of food must increase the
fund of employment of the empire in general ; and
as water is an easier communication than land, if
the Irish could not find food at home, they would
follow the food. Poor rates would prevent any
more from being kept on the land in Ireland than
could be profitably employed.—Morning Chronicle.

PARISH OF ST. JAMES, WESTMINSTER.--
ASSESSED TAxEs.--Yesterday, at 1 o'clock, a numerous.
Vestry Meeting of the ratepayers of St. James's was Islet
at WILLIS'S Rooms, for the purpose of agreeing to a pe-
tition against the assessed taxes ; Mr. LADLEY, Church-
warden, in the chair. After some discussion, in which
the inequality of the tax, when applied to the aristocracy
or the middling classes, was stated, the resolutions and
petition were carried, and nine parishioners were appointed
as a deputation from the parish to the Central Committe4
of Westminster. Thanks were voted to the Chai.u.4l44,
and the Vestry then separated.

ST. MARYLEBONE.—At the public meeting
of the rate-payers of this parish, held on Monday last,
at the Workhouse, to petition Parliament for a repeal of
the house and window taxes, a deputation of rate pa:,:er4
was appointed to wait on Sir WILLIam lion.NE, en; of
the Members for this borough, with a request that ho
would support the prayer of the petition, and they were
further instructed to report his answer. The steputa-,
don were politely received by the Learned Gentletup,
and the resolution having been read to him, he- stater; that
these taxes were very objectionable, but he declined giving
a direct answer on the subject, as he was not sufficiently
acqu tinted with finance to give a decided opinion ; but if
these taxes had now to be put on, he should decidedly ob-
ject to them. He added, that when the petition was pre-
sented he should express his opinion, that if any tax could
e spared, that surely should be dispensed with. Under
these circumstances, he could not pledge himself to F.61,v,
port the petition.

PARISH OF ST. MARY, NEWINGTONe.-.
Yesterday evening there was a numerous meeting of Shit
parish, in Francis-street, for the purpose of petititming
for the ballot, for the repeal of the assessed taxes, the Sep-
tennial Act, and those clauses of the new Reform Act
which relate to the payment of Ives and taxes as a To,
lification for voting ; CHARLES Fox SMITH, EN.,
Churchwarden, in the chair. Mr. HERSEY moved the
first resolution, for the repeal of the assessed taxes ; wheq
Mr. CHESSMAN contended that the whole of the assessed
taxes ought to be repealed, and was sure it was only by
" embarrassing" the Government that any good could be
obtained. Several gentlemen having addressed the meow
ing, resolutions for the repeal of the assessed taxes, and
that the objectionable part of the Reform Act should he
expunged, the repeal of the Septennial Act, and the why.
tion of the vote by ballot, were finally adopted. The
thanks of the meeting were proposed to the Chairman, and
they separated.

STATE OF TRADE.—We are glad to be able
to report & visible improvement in the state of the staple
trade of this district (Leeds). Though there are many
hands out of employment, especially in some branches of
business, the demand for woollen goods during the past
month has been greater than usual at this period of the
year. Wools, especially those of the coarser qualities, and
English long wools, are rattier on the advance, and if the
merchants could be induced to pay a proportionate price
for the manufactured goods, more business might be done.
This is especially the case in the stuff trade ; the manu-
facturers having been unable to realise a price for their
{nods equal to the late trifling advance in worsted y!rne,
"Jilt full em-
ed, which
profits are still low. We are happy to state that business
it Bradford is much brisker at present, and in a more
healthy state, than has been known for several years.
wEayserbyromuigllhtotro
thewarehhaomusme
e(riltlhaeriostverw.d'saye):
ployment, and many orders that have been standing over
for tour months, cannot be executed. Stuffs have risen in
:orrespondence with wool,
and on some fabrics Se. 6d.
ier piece advance was last week readily obtained...-Leeds
inttiligeneer.

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