The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-25 00:00:00

WINDOW TAX.

Mr. ROBINS presented a petition from the church-
wardens, overseers, and vestry of the parish of St. Paul,
Covent garden, praying for the entire repeal of the win-
dow tax. The petition was signed by 400 inhabitants of
the parish, who, from the nature of their information,
were able expressly to say, that the householders generally
would no longer pay this most oppressive and unjust
tax.—(Hear, hear.) The opinion of the inhabitan s
of the metropolis, and of those residing in all the principal
towns of the country, was unanimous as to the necessity
of having this tax repealed. If the Noble Lord (Althorp)
was unable to give up the whole of the window tax, with-
out laying on some other impost to make up the deficiency,
it would be better if the Noble Lord would give up the
window tax, and lay on an adequate amount on the
house duty, which ought also to be equitably arranged, so
that there might no longer be a contrast kept up between
the rating of the hou-es of the rich and of the poor.—
(Hear, hear.) He hoped to see so disgraceful a tax as
that on windows expunged from the statute books
of the land ; and he thought the best plan that could
be pursued by the House, would be to repeal the tax
altogether, and then to support Ministers in laying
on an additional tax to the same amount. But it was
Ministers who should be expected to say how the amount
should be leeied--to bring forward some plan of their own
—and not to mike a stand against those who called
for the reduction of any particular tax, by asking how the
deficiency in the revenue should be made up.—(Hear )
The Hon. Member now saw the Noble Lord (who had
just entered) in his place, and repeated his previous
observations, adding that he should net do his duty to
those who had complanented him by putting the petition
into his band, nor to his constituents in the city of Wor-
cester, if he did not call upon the House to en:orce the
repeal of the window tax.--(1-Isar.)
Mr. COBBETT contended that the Noble Lord might
h a agvre got e
ater moreet e
extent
th meansan to enable
had
pli
proposed
to
cdreducet odo. t h ewt ahxyesh t(c];
he not struck off a number of unmerited pensions ? There
was a number of women who took more of the public
money than was necessary to support 25,500 sailors
end marines, with their officers. if the Noble Lord
(Althorp) would pledge himself to reduce that ex.

penditure, he (Mr. Cobbett) would lend him his strenuous
support.
- - •

Mr. HUME said it was perfectly true, as stated by the
Hon. Member for Oldham, that a very large sum of money
was paid to females by way of pensions, and the late Par-
liament had been exceedingly blameable in extending cha-
rity to Noble Lords and Ladies, instead of having some
charitable consideration for the distresses of the labouring
and industrious classes.—(Hear.) When he saw the returns
of the number of poor persons who had been distrained upon
for small amounts of taxes, and whose goods had been sold,
he was convinced it was exceedingly unbecoming to allow
a single pension of 501. to be given to the class of persons
he had described. The Noble Lord had proposed but an in-
efficient relief, but if he wished to do any good he must act
on a large scale, and if he had not the means immediately
within his reach, lie must consider whether there were
not other species of property untaxed ; for instance, pro-
perty that descended from father to son, which should be
placed in the same scale of taxation as other property. He
was sorry that the Hon. Member for Colchester (Mr. Har..
vey) had not pressed his motion for an inquiry into the nature
of the services for which pensions were supposed to have
been granted, but he hoped that Hon. Member would be
induced to renew it on some early day.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY was sorry that any notion was
entertained that lie had abandoned his motion on the sub-
ject of the Pension Lists. He had, in fact, only po,t-
poned it till the 22d of May.—( Hear.) The object of
that motion was not to deprive any of the pensioners
of the payments they had received, or were entitled to
receive, but to relieve them from the odium so generally
understood to attach to them, as if there were any
women in England, Scotland, or Ireland, who
received pensions fur which they hail not giveu to
the country a full and adequate consideration. For this
purpose lie should move for a return of all pensioners, and
the consideration they had given fin• their pensions. —(A
laugh.) There was one suggestion which he would in
the mean time, throw out, that when it was intended to
take the sense of the House on any point, it would be well
to have an intimation to that effect stated in the votes of
the House.—( Hear.) In that case Hon. Members would
take care to be present on particular occasions, or else
they would have no excuse for their absence. Before he
sat down he hi-geed to repeat that on the 22d of May he
would bring forward his motion, and make an appeal to
the gall-entry of Hon. Members—(A laugh)—when
the ladies of England now on the pensio❑ lies would have
an opportunity of vindicating themselves from the un-
generous supposition that any of them was receiving one
sixpence for which an equivalent had not been given.—
(Much laughter )
Mr. PRYME rose to bring forward his motion, that
the Protestant Dissenters called Separatists should be
allowed, in place of taking oaths, to give their solemn
affirmation.—( Hear, hear.) If there were any objection,
he would discuss it on the second reading.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had received a very nume-
rously and respectably signed petition, from all parties, in
Dublin, in favour of the Bill. He thought the parties
were entitled to the relief they prayed.
Mr. COBBETT said, it this Bill were passed, it would
take another screw out of the fabric of the Constitution,
by which its stability would he most materially impaired.
Mr. HUME considered all those ilhberal restrictions as
indicating the weakness and not the strength of the Con-
stitution; and expressed his hope that the time was not
far distant when civil right would be unaffected altogether
by religious opinions.

Mr. C. BULLER cited one instance of the bad effects
of the law as it at present stood. A gentleman went to
the Court of Chancery to make his affirmation to an affi-
davit ; he objected to swear, but was willing to make his
affirmation. The Lord Chancellor asked him Nether
he was a Moravian or a Quaker?—(Hear.) He
said he was neither, but still he had scruples, and could
not swear to it. The Chancellor said he could not allow
him to affirm, and the sooner he became either a Quaker
or a Moravian the better ; this was a most illiberal re-
mark, and the sooner it was out of the power of any man
to say so, the better. In this case, the person in whose
behalf the affidavit was, was a very severe sufferer. He
trusted that the present Bill would allow any who had
scruples as to swearing, to make his affirmation.
Mr. PRYME said the HOH. Member might make a
motion to that effect on a su,osequent stage of the Bill.
Mr. H. GRATTAN spoke in favour of the measure,
and complained of the number of oaths that Members of
that House were compelled to take.
Leave to bring in the Bill was then given.
Mr. FINN moved for returns of the salaries paid to the
judges in Ireland in :1792, and the amount of retired
allowances during the same time.
The order of the day for resuming the debate on the
currency question was then read.
Colonel TORRENS said that it appeared to him, in
the course of this protracted debate, a considerable degree
of censure, and be might almost soy of odium, had been
passed unjustly on those who voted for an inquiry into the
monetary system of the country. He said unfairly
and unjustly, because he believed it was quite con-
sistent to vote fur the amendment of the Noble
Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that it was
inexp odient to lower the stand ird of value in this country,
and yet to vote also for an inquiry whether an improve-
ment might not be made in the banking and in the
monetary system of this country, so as to relieve the
prevalent distress, and so as to give increased facilities
to the industry and commerce of the country.—(Hear,
hear.) Those two propositions seemed to him in too
way inconsistent. He thought that any Hon. Member
might vote for the amendment of the Noble Lord, and
declare, as he (Colonel Torrens) was prepared to de-
clare, that it would be very inexpedient to
lower the ancient standard of value, and quite consistent
with that proposition also to declare, as he WAS likewise
prepared to declare, that it would be wise and expedient,
and even necessiry, under the existing circumstances of
the country, to inquire whether they might not, by an im-
proved system of banking, and by a rectified mode-of issuing
our paper currency, tend to increase the industry of the
country, and take away the pressure of distress which
weighed the people to the earth. He (the Gallant Colonel)
had ever been opposed to any reduction in the ancient
metallic standard of value of this country. He op.

posed any alteration with a view to depreciate the
standard of value upon the principle so justly and so
ably stated in the cow se of that debate by the Right lion.
Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade.
He believed with the Hon. Gentleman, that the conse-
quence would be the rising of all the necessaries of life in a
higher ratio than the price of labour, and the whole working
class of the community would 1: materially injured.
On that principle he had always opposed a lower-
ing of the st melard of value, and so far back
as the year 1819, when Mr. Peel's Bill was first intro.
duced into that House, he ventured to point

out the evils which would accrue from such a measure.
He had then declared that the wages of labour when the
currency fell, would not in reasonable time rise in a ratio
with the price of provisions, therefore that the principti
evil in the falling of the currency would be, that the wages
of labour would be reduced, and the people could be
placed in a worse condition than before.—(Hear.)
That being his established and long recorded opinion, he
trusted Hon. Members would not impute to him any wish
to lower the metallic standard of the currency in this
country. Ile totally disavowed any such intention, but
should think it consistent to vote fur the motion of the
Noble Lord, and also the motion of the Hon. Member for
\Vhitehaven, for a Committee. It was expedient, in con-
s,-quenee of the presence of distress that existed in the
country, that inquiry should be male for the purpose of
ascertaining whether relief could be given to that distress.
The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, had
last night thrown out a challenge to Members to disprove
that the Act of ISI9 was not an Act wisely and well con-
sidered, and established upon the best and soundest prin-
Itiadequate as he was, he would not shrink from
accepting the challenge which had been thrown out by_
the Right Hon. Baronet, and he would venture to say
that of all the erroneous acts of legislation, there
never was one which had been productive of such
mischief as the one of 1819 for restoring the metallic
standard of the country. General principles in th it ca +e
had been rashly applied ; instead of restoring the ancient
metallic standard, a totally different one had been substituted.
The law prohibiting the melting of coin was constantly
evaded, but the ri.k and inconvenience of evading it
caused a premium of 3 per cent. on gold, which would
be sworn for exportation —(Hear, hear.) When those
laws, therefore, were repealed, the standard was
in fact altered. Before 1797 both gold anti silver were
legal tenders; the payers having the option of p tying
in which metal they pleased. When the philosophers,
therefore, adopted a gold standard in 1819, they departed
front the o!d national standard.—(Hear, hear.) Before
that, however, the standard tied been departed
from. From 1257 to 1664, the value of gold and silver
was fixed by ptoc:amation, both being legal tenders.
From 1614 to 1717, the relative value was not fixed by
authority, and,
always
Inact"AllY, silver was the only standard,
because
waschose to pay in it. In paying a guinea, it
was declared to e of the same va:ue as 21s. in
silver,
but as tl ey were not of ego value, the
e e
standard was there clearly departed from.—(Hear )
In 1774 silver was declared not to be a legal tender for
inure than 25/., but silver coin was afterwards de-
clared to be a legal tender to any amount, and

from that time up to the suspension of cash payments
it continued to be a legal tender ; therefore, when in
1819 the Parliament came to the resolution of altering
the standard, it did not re-establish the metallic standard,
but positively altered it, and established a new standard.
But the question was, had they taken a preferable
medium ?—( Hear, hear.) Had they made any improve-
ment in the standard? He was prepared to show that
they had altered the standard for the worse, and that in
making gold the only standard, while silver formerly was
the standard, they did that which not only lowered the value
of the currency, but also increased in a most impertant
degree, the liability to fluctuation. The Hon. Member
went on to show that when the balance of foreign pay-
ments was against us, coin would he used the exportation of
which was attended with the least expense. Now gold would
lie employed for that purpose in the first place, and five or
six millions being subtracted from the actual gold currency
in the country, it would clearly and evidently very
materially raise i.s value. Silver, on the contrary,
was a commodity, the supply of which was abundant, and
7,000,0001 subtracted from its circulation would not
effect its value at all.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Therewere therefore two causes by which, when the balance
of foreign payments was against this country, gold rose
much higher than silver, and they furnished two reasons
why a great commercial country should prefer silver as
the standard instead of golf. How was that borne out by
facts? But this was not all. The Legislature of 1819
not only mistinderstooia—the nature of the standard which
they intended to restore, but they neglected all the cir-
cumstances, by which tire metals composing that standard,
in the interval between the suspension and the resumption
of cash payments, had been themselves enhanced in value.
Many causes had concurred to increase the value of gold.
By the return to cash payments a new demand for gold,
to the amount of from 25,000,0001. to 30,000,0001.,
was created, while the contemporaneous changes from paper
to metallic currency, which were effected in Russia,
Austria, Denmark, and the United States, occasioned a
still further demand for the precious metals to the amount
of at least 25,000,000/. The whole of the increased
demand for the precious metals could not have been less
than 50,000,0001. sterling. But all the gold supposed to
exist in the cornmercial world could scarcely have been
less than 50,000,0001., while the annual supply, before
it was reduced by the troubles in South America, was
stated by Humboldt to he 1,600,000/. Now, if there had
been no diminution in the annual supply of the precious
metals, the increased demand for them for coin would
have materially enhanced their value. But while the
demand increased the supply diminished. The civil wars
in South America suspended the working of the mines,
and, instead of receiving supplies of the precious metals
from South America, we actually exported specie thither.
From these co operating cause-, the value of gold through-
out the commercial world had advanced, or, in other
words, the price of commodities had fallen. His Hon.
Friend the Member for the city of London had shown
that a great proportion of the fall on the price of
commodities had been occasioned by the increased
facility of production, and the larger quantities in
which commodities were brought to market. But those
facts do nut disprove the rise in the value of currency.
On the contrary, they show anther cause of that rise.
Value is relative, and a rise in the value of gold, as com-
pared with other articles, may be occasioned either by in-
creasing the cost of obtaining the metals, or by diminishing
the cost of obtaining other articles. Tf:e facts hrought
forward by tie Hon. Member establish this—that the
value of the precious metals has been enhanced by a two-
fold cause. In point of fact, the price of commodities
measures the value of money ; and the fall in ge-
neral prices shows the rise in the value of the cur-
rency. Prices have fallen one half, and therefore
the value of our metallic standard has been doubled.
Now the Act of 1819, which the Right Hon. Baronet
(Sir R. Peel) asserts to have been passed with so
much deliberation and precaution, anti with so careful a
regard to justice and to sound principles, was passed in
utter ignorance of all the principles which regulate value,
and of all the circumstances which limit the application
of general principles. The abolition of one-pound notes
was another evil inflicted on the country by the ignorance
of Parliament. The Right Hon. Baronet pronounced
an eloquent speech against small notes. Every objection
which he urged against them is equally applicable to five
and ten-pound notes. The evils are not confined to small
notes. They are inherent in the system. Extensive
and calamitous experience had now established the fact,
that a currency, consisting of the precious metals, and of
paper convertible into these metals on demand, was liable
to sudden and very considerable fluctuation, between the
extremes of excess and of deficiency. Though no excess
should ever be created, vet deficiency will occasionally
occur. Redundant currency and the general rise in
prices checking exportation and encouraging importa-
tion, which it occasions, are not the only—perhaps
not the principal—caus,s of an unfavourable balance of
foreign payment. Foreign expenditure—foreign loans
—deficient harvests—excessive and mistaken specula-
tions—may severally or conjointly create an amount
of foreign debt beyond what the ordinary amount of foreign
credits can liquidate, and thus cause the demand for foreign
bills to exceed the supply. In this state of things foreign
bills will bear a premium, and the bullion merchant will
obtain a profit by consigning the precious metals to his
correspondents abroad—drawing for the amount, and dis-
posing of his bills in the market. The banks of circula-
tion will, as before, have their notes returned in exchange
for gold ; and, to avert a dangerous run upon their coffers,
will be compelled to contract their issues until the value
of the currency is so increased that the exportation of the
coin no longer yields a profit. When paper, issued in
excess, or an unfavourable balance, arising from other
causes, has occasioned a run upon the banks of circulation,
it becomes the interest of those establishments to contract
their issues, not merely in the degree necessary to stop
the run, and restore the currency to its standard value, but
in that treater degree which may be requisite in order to
raise the currency above its standard value, and to enable
the Directors, upon favourable terms, to replenish the
exhausted coffers of the banks. When a run has
taken place upon the banks which issue paper, the
directors of these establishments cannot ascertain,
with any precision, the degree in which their issues
ought to be contracted, in order to effict the twofold
object of arresting the drain upon their treasure,
and of replenishing their coffet a upon favourable
terms. The necessity of contraction they will see ; but,
possessing no indications of the precise point at which it
miaht safely and advantageously stop, they will often carry
it considerably beyond what the actual circumstances of
the case require. Hence, after every recurrence of excess,
or of-an unfavourable foreign balance, a mixed currency,
composed of coin and of paper, convertible upon demand,
will suffer a much more considerable contraction, and ac-
quire a higher value, than a currency purely metallic.
The fluctuations in the value of such mixed currency, when
occasioned by an unfavourable foreign balance, become
more considerable as the proportion which the paper bears
to the coin is increased. Again, a mixed currency, com-
posed of coin and of paper, convertible into coin on de-
mand, was constantly exposed to still more sudden and
violent diminutions in amount, in consequence of the stop-
page of the banks by which the paper is circulated. The
crisis of 1797, and the panic of 1825.6, were far from
being extreme or aggravated instances of the evils inhe-
rent in this vicious monetary system. It was on all
hands acknowledged, that if during the panic of 1825, we
had been threatened with danger from abroad, or vi,ited
with a scarcity of corn at home, the crash would have
been beyond all comparison more extensive and appalling.
Under such circumstances, the failure of the London and
country banks would have been followed by the stoppage
of the Bank of England.a,upon its c
Asioifeis
it ryas, that establishment
called
i into the utmost activity, could scarcely
had the greatest difficulty in providing gold to meet the
x and all the powers
of e Mint,
n into coin with sufficient rapidity for the
occasion.
iorntiirl t
o r
de
that Occasion it was the liberality of the
e convertt. r
o bullion
ue
French Bank in permitting the British coin deposited with
• it to be withdrawn, which saved the Bank of England
from the necessity of stopping payment. Unless our pre-
sent system of currency be amended by the timely interfe-
rence
in a national bankruptcy it
go on to occasion periodical
I,.:ntulceagogf
rtahve,iLtee,gi isdliasttureress,,is will
finds its euthanasia. Thus the evils attributed by the
Member for Tatnworth to the circulation of one-pound
notes, was inherent in a system of currency consisting of
coin and of paper money issued by ii responsible individuals,
and payable on demand at the option of the holder. What
was the remedy?
(Colonel Torrens) would endea-
vour briefly to point it out. In the first place, he would
make silver the standard instead of gold. This, as he had
already explained, would render the currency more steady,
and would prevent, to a certain extent, those fluctuations
which had proved so ruinous to trade. In the second
place, he would adopt the principle of the late Mr. Rican.
to, and make the paper currency payable, not in coin.
but in ingots of silver, to the amount of 100/. or 2001.
This would secure the banks of circulation from political
passions, and from runs, having for object the embarrass-
ment of Government. In the third plan, he would per-
mit the re-issuing of one and two pound notes. 'Phis
would extend to the agricultural and thinly peopled dis-
tricts the advantages of credit and circulation, of which
they were now deprived. And, in the third place, he
would secure to the people the whole benefit of issuing
paper money, which was now unjustly monopolized by
the Bank of England. This, which had been suggested

on the soundest principles of political economy by Mr.
Ricardo, would place 40,000,0001. at the disposal of the
Treasury. He need not dilate upon the vast benefit which
the adoption of this arrangem,nt would secure to the
country. Thirty millions might be applied to the public
service, and would, for a period of six years, allow of a
reduction of taxation, to the amount of 5,000,000/, an-
nually. Ten millions would remain, which might be
applied to the immediate relief of distress. He (Colonel
Torrens) begged pardon of the House for having occupied
their attention sa long. In conclusion, he would repeat,
that the amendment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was not inconsistent with the motion of the Hun. Mem-
ber for hitehaven, He (Colonel Torrens) was ready
to vote for both propositions. He was ready to affirm
that the ancient standard of value ought not to be de-
graded ; and he was prepared to vote for a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the distress of the country, with
the view of ascertaining how far that distress could be
relieved by an improvement in our system of banking and
of paper currency.—(The Hon. Member was repeatedly
cheered throughout his speech.)
Mr. STEWART considered the invention of our paper
currency one of the most important of modern times ; and,
although he had heard a great many cogent arguments
against an inconvertible paper currency, he had not heard
a single remark respecting a convertible paper currency,
which he considered the best circulating medium for any
country. Ile then alluded to the opinions of Sir. Huskis-
son, formerly expressed upon this subject, when he admitted
that Peel's 13111 of 1819 had in 1823 produced a deprecia-
tion of property, to the amount of 10 per cent. He made
some observations, also, on the former opinions of the
lion. Member for Essex (Mr. Baring). In his opinion,

it was proposed to limit the inquiry too strictly to our
monetat y system ; he thought, with the Gallant Colonel
who had just spoken, that it would be highly desirable to
inquire into the whole banking system of the country. The
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, had
tid that the motion was ill timed ; and had asked if the
House ought to postpone to it such considerations as the
East India Company and the Bank Charter questions. He

Mr. Stewart) denied that it was an ill-timed motion.

Mr. STRUTT was satisfied that the manufacturing
and commercial interests of the country regarded with
dismay the motion of the Hon. Member for Whitehaven,
as fraught with the greatest danger to trade, and every
description of property. He perfectly agreed with the
Noble Load, that the only object of the motion was the
depreciation of the currency ; and he also concurred with
the Noble Lord, that no one could agree to the motion,
who was not prepared to transfer large portions of property
from one set of persons to another—from the creditors
to the debtors of the country. It had been said that the
measure was justifiable in order to counteract the injus-
tice with respect to contracts which bad been perpetrated
by the resumption of cash payments. But even conced-
ing that there had been that injustice, still it should be
remembered that the contracts of the present period, were
not the contracts of 1819. Out of one hundred existing
contracts, ninety-nine bad been made since that period.
It would be a strange mode of justice to create an enor-
mous mass of injustice, for the purpose of doing justice in
comparatively a few instances; but the fact was, that the
injustice was perpetrated by the Bank Restriction Act, and
that the Act of 1819 was only a return to justice ; and
having experienced the fatal effects of the Bank Restric-
tion, ought the llouse now to adopt a similar system?
He did not impute undue motives to those from whom he
differed in opinion on this subject. He had no doubt
that they were convinced of the propriety of the step which
they were taking, although he was at a loss to understand
on what principle they were so convinced. But enter-
taining the view which he did of the subject, he should
feel that, if he were to concur in the motion of the Hon.
Member for Whitehaven, it would be the commencement
of a system of confiscation and ruin. The country was
largely indebted to the Noble Lord for the stiaight-for-
ward and man y manner in which he had met the motion.
Mr. ROBINSON put it to tae House in what situation
the question would be left if the amendment of the Noble
Lord were carried, and the motion of the Hon. Member
1 for Whitehaven negatived ? Was it not desirable that
the question should tie decided, not evaded ? Yet in that
case they woual be just where they were. All their time
would have been wasted—all the talents of the present
House, and all the experience of past Parliaments would
have been wasted, without one practical or beneficial re-
sult. He deprecated that so much, that he must trespass
on the House for a few minutes. For his part, he could
not discover any great difference between the opinions of
the Noble Lord and of the Hon. Member for Whitehaven,
as explained by the latter last night.—(Oh.) He thought
he understood the Noble Lord to say, that he bad
no objection to an inquiry, provided the House in the fist
instance affirmed his amendment. In his opinion, there
was nothing so puerile as to debate on the fact whether or
not there was any distress in the country. If the state-
merits of that distress had been exaggerated, yet there
could be no doubt that there was a sufficient degree cf
distress and embarrassment to warrant the House to enter
upon an inquiry into its cause, with a view, if passible, to
find some means of relief. It was evident that a great
majority of the House was for limiting the inquiry to that
precise ohjsct ; and lie was convinced that if the House
were to affirm tt e proposition of the Hon. Member for
Whitehaven, unaccompanied by a resolution that they
will maintain the present standard of value, the next day
would present a spectacle which no man would contem-
plate without horror, or find terms sufficiently eloquent to
describe.—( Hear, hear.) It was his decided conviction,
that if the country meant to retain its character for good
faith, it would not affirm the Hon. Gentleman's proposi-
tion. He had known the Hon. Gentleman long, and re-
spected h m highly ; but when the Hon. Gentleman said
that it was not his intention to depreciate the currency, he
was at a loss to understand the Hun. Gentleman's mean-
ing. Although 11. notes were withdrawn, there were
five pound notes, both of the Bank of England and of
country bankers, and an immense mass of mercantile
paper, valuable only because it was convertible into a me-
tallic currency. What would be the effect of the
adoption of the Honourable Gentleman's motion,
on this mass of paper, but depreciation ? The
bank restriction had inflicted the greatest embar-
rassments on the country, and the return to cash pay-
ment,' had also produced effects which were not contem-
plated by its supporters. But if errors had been com-
mitted in 1797 and 1819, was that a reason that the
House of Commons were now to be called upon to com-
mit the fatal error of unsettling the standard of value?
The effect of such a step would be most injurious on all
our relations with foreign states. He believed he should
riot be wrong in asserting that measures might be de-
vised, short of a breach of national faith, to overcome our
difficulties and restore prosperity. As to an inquiry into
the distress of the people, he could hardly support such a
proposition—for it would last the whole session ; but an
inquiry, distress being admitted, into safe and judicious
remedies, he would willingly vote for. Mere resolu-
tions did not alter tile nature of things—(Hear, hear)
—or enable the people to pay taxes, and live in some-
thing like decency and comfort. The House should
not reject such a motion on the miserable plea of
expediency, or refuse to legislate, simply because they
were afraid or unwilling. In 1822 the present Lord
Chancellor brought forward a motion on the distress of
the country, in which he stated that common remedies
would do no good, but that vigorous measures must be re-
sorted to. "His decided opinion upon the subject was
that where the pressure was so great, and the interest so
mighty—for the very existence of the State was bound tip
in the prosperity of the land—the country had only one
limit to relief—the making that relief decidedly effectual :
that if one measure of reduction would not do, recourse
must be had to another, and from thence to another; and
that if all reductions were insufficient, the country must
prepare for other measures, for measures only to be justi-
fied by a paramount unreasoning necessity." Such were
the wort's of the Noble individual who now sat so very
easily, though he did not mean indifferently, on the Wool.
sack. Aaain, he said, "If economy was not found effec-
tual Parliament was beund to do that which would he effee.
tual ; forest all events and all hazards, it was their duty to
save the State. God forbid that any man should even whir.
per such an expedient as that, from which every well con-
stituted mind must recoil, the compounding with the public
creditor, or the tamp, ring with the currency, while Par-
liament possessed the power cf relieving the ex-
isting distress by a diminution of taxation, and by the en-
forcement of economy." The only fault, the Honourable
Member continued, lie had to find with the present Mi-
nistet s—for he was sure they were anxious to do their
duty and relieve the people—was that their measures
were not sufficiently determined—that they did not go
direct to the pint. They, he was satisfied, must be of a
much more vigorous character, to accomplish any sub.
stantial and permanent good.—(Hear, he,ir.) He did not
increasedaug ial' n
place any f .ith in tie arguments of the Wain Hon.
neod. statririptil his
, p
the
corn
t
r for Alaochester (Mr. P. Thomson), and the Hen.
Member for Lundon (air. Grote), that, because tea and
outer x
torts
basalot the 1 e
op
le
it could only be taken as a change in the habit,' of
pt
the people—(Hear, hear)—that, instead of having the
n eoie articles lh7,(111
been m
good old roast beef, they used articles of a less substantial
and less strengthening character. He trusted the resolution
and the amendment would be embodied in such a way as
to lead to an inquiry ; for they must all agree, that the
state of the productive classes was such—their distress was
so apparent—as to justify and call for it.--(Hear, hear.)

groSuinrdsHoEnNwTrieh
the Hon. MemberPb
attention to the speech of the Hon. Member to. 1 t_eeto
what his precise plan was, and the result he hadivo,_7.bit
ware ta consider it in the same point of view
in"e
Noble Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nee
or ?ti,
a plan for lowering the standard of value of the 001,Itbs
e
The Hon. Member said, he desired a relaxation
cito
Aef shoulditrNlvEh r t
Leg
h iceawv eohnui.sl de
of °obrnat 1
arh e:l3ot
copes
cog'ct tt:ca:et:
currency, and had denied that he sought for a dePrece
of it; but to him there appeared to be no differ° sot
tween nis relaxation and a positive deerreiati"*.eferrig
he meant by relaxation might he ascertained by
gelei
to what he considered the good effects of it• e
,e,ete
taken the period when the relaxation was the er ar's_ter,
that when the prosperity of the country wee the g:._,hee,
namely, during the war but then priceswere the ol_„Ai
and at the same time the currency the mot depdreecrsec;
so that, in point of fact, it was clear that I:
tion was the real object of the Hon. 111embe.rjeoscr
referring again to the period which the Heo• ilte se
considered to be one of the greatest distrese, %col
signed as the cause of the distress the restored 101 l
the currency, and thus again showed his rented);
or
fies
di•tress was depreciation. In point of fact, what Wit
Member desired was to lower the standard value-7,,
to require that the sovereign which now passed 10
But
should hereafter pass for 25s.—(Loud cheers.), or
when this came to be fully understood out of
doubt soon would be, the public would see noth!'"ff 0(0
plan orfetsheHtona.n great
trer nationaltb injury--(Ch atwouldbryei.L.rotdcueht:eerse)t
was for these reasons he would give his vote be aise''irbe"
motion of the Hon. Member; but in doing 0, u hiquid
to be understood, he was by no means oppoied t° tie
into the state of the country. He was anxioos,heusly
contrary, that inquiry should take place-4-I°r' had sot,:
and he was sorry the Chancellor of the Exchequers 001'
proposed en the present occasion that CommittO 000
be appointed to make this inquiry. He did not nested
inquiry into all those subjects which had been
into discussion in this debate. but a practical ilulnterSilli
tlle
Ile thought state andofitrtatoleght an
intoingutheiry into theconditicinof the f toile
classes.
state ai
so,
would not only be attended with the good effect t ittstil!
taining to what extent distress really existed' 10.45.
that of showing means by which the interests °ell tso
be promoted. He conceived it would lead to ttidi re'
off of many restrictions which now fettered it. s
spect to the working class, an inquiry into the crge-t der
the expenses of this class would produce a feeeilll9
of useful information—(Hear, hear)--an" of ~
leading to measures for the improvernentgie dig;
condition, would make it known hoof 51tbe
tress really existed. The Hon. Member said ttei
itE
now to make some observations on a subject Wn'"deeat°
been so frequently mentioned in the course of thede cote
namely, the establishing of a double standard. t'e 01!
ceived a great deal of misapprehension prevailed .oild
point. If the facts of the case were examined, °orb°
be found that every attempt which had been illscibeicelv
country, and every other country, to have ado le star;
dard had failed. —(Hear, hear.) We had a '1011;
dard in this country, up to the year 1816; butted'',-
the state of the silver coin ? legal coin esta ;err'
cause was, that the mint prices of gold and silver isrio;
adjusted, that silver coin could not be kept in eir,edusdji°ti,
but if the relative value should be ever so prolter'7
ed in the first instance, it was impossible the tW°,llrov,
could continue in circulation, because thel s-osti°.
was liable to fluctuation ; and when any such tan" cal
ae
took place, then one of the metals would be of 0100
in bullion than in coin, and would be melted. '".01 tbiit
hear.) There had been much error in the aille,ertd
debate, in assuming- that silver had been the sta" sota"
value in this country.—(Cheers.) It had been leriiie*
nally, but in reality it was held by all the best ant ;tett
that, in point of fact, during the whole of the last ce,a °
gold was the standard. This was proved to be °re-fro
the reduction of the values of the guinea, in Priis
21s. 6.1. to 21s. being followed by a eeduetion i°"necite,
of gold to the same amount. The Hon. 'Member c°;seeo;',,
by saying, that the subject was so exhausted bYll.o,ertlri
speakers, and the views entertained upon it, t",t., d
spl
conformity with his own, had been so ably exisfreereer..,'
supperted, that he would not go over the ianice; of ,gl'
but content himself by declaring, that he knenteek.sl
greater calamity that could befal this country thafteer'
any alteration in the long.establishetl standard r"
of its money.--.(Cheers.) 110
Mr. LAMBERT was convinced that the distrel • coo
which now so generally prevailed in the countrY neberift
netted wish the chance in the monetary system-Icl, t
which had leeally taken place in 1819. but for •
Bnk of England h expreeely made preparati"niffat/'
distress, therefore, was to be dated, not imniedian'e 6
1819, and from that y. ar alone. but from some
vious, during which these preparations were g°,ln'tent
wird. He himself had been a great stiff rer "'tot'
change. The plain statement of the fact eva:',osti/4
doubled the incumbrances of every landed getane,Tpstt;
(Hear, hear.) The consequence was, that a greaci
it—atconlhonfr,eedmitn(nautfilin:atosthneeseraleeiyrivreee..dips),o:eelpfonrrti,,oe,Htlialippvedeueeh wished rbtayd ofn othe
been
henefittedby chat If re
te tr.:ol;v
ty,o, while ttation ; uohteaseyipnn: ediopa.nlkhodey, s:em(n
employed
uhtdhrteatehl absleaeetyrgieet:::inftoisfriitds:,:cee,te
doe :tot,
60,0001. upon a mortgage of land, and aftertvar
~t oto
change in the currency, lie wee enabled to elait°,ld t
one-fourth but the whole of the property. Thoortlei.
which enabled him to do so be called fair °es. tduill
—( He ir, hear,) The lentil, rds had voluntar!ised too
their rents from thirty to fifty per cent. ; but it 041
not done so voluntarily, they must have cinnet te
compulsion of circumstances. The dietresseil
country had compelled the reduction ; ar,tilas satie
,eir4
landed interest was oppressed, the country atcv"' 0 -,e4'
distress. He insisted that the state of sufferiog pia or
it was now admitted the landed interest Wenrgeefil.
arose in no inconsiderable degree from the rbs„-t, sr,
currency. If 4/. represented a bushel of oill".,oing.,e;'
were taken away from that sum, and the reo3-beifkl;fl;,
represented a bushel of wheat, the change tuntiglit
ous ; for upon selling the wheat, the producer ":fig 10 7L
had in the former state of things 2/. reniain"-ee
after paying
re
presae lttnhoe
tcaosptaorft producing
theuc inwg
hiot,lebouft
bn°,st-ipyraobPseltoti
—(Hear.) edadbveiesnahmleo,sti:ojt;::::eeort:;'l
The fact was, it was necessary to make thero "'lot (A}
bi
stance,tao
inhlf
leutth,dhieeydenertigostwohceo.owparnldnaufosserrns: them.sa_lnialvpleao,:fnaaepmaei
iulesm accusations
eborldynnesmralAea
tarns
murderer.
pekhTeoonhuuepbct
coorstoottati:dt.o."go
I:bijoittift
le
40ei:„Ieot
0:000;
the humanity of the Irish landlord. Peserdes
ter'
which that gentleman, to support his accu,3%,
murder, and for it lam willing to suffer. na ree u, Of
and bad agents drove me to commit the desPe'ibe
ed
and toy old father, who had grown erey uP°°„49ol fret
and his numerous and helpless family beig Theresa
them." Now not one syllable of this was true' .0 rirs
was, that from this roan five years' rent wnree sjhilled
and that rent was charged at less than n'ti-bear.(o;
statute acre upon fair arable ground.—(Eleri gel3l..'eishr,
land in question was certainly the land of ;pa yrfilt.
who resided in Englanh, but who was as itinutptiee,e,
a man and a landlord as any one in oltn-e
gentleman was (so we understood the name) te-sirer-siear
Chapman. But he repeated that the landloruj to 'olol''
made sufferers, and therefore it was deterneini.e.s:co°oo
niate them. He denied that they deserved tP'-ty fre ogre
The landlords, whose ancestors had held provderod 1),,r,01°°,
times of the Saxons, hail always had a balM,s, a „i"resig"
rout tenantry ; but if in passing along be le of
more than usually ornamented, built in a `lye ;bei;j
elegance, and surrounded with grounds svite'.o- " 1001
pended all her means to beautify the urene;ed be 001'
quired to whom this elegant mansion belooaend' she eti
that the property had recently been soldri.o be v75:101)
of the ! Vir possessor generally indicated vi,`' the 1311-I,t.
by what means he had been enabled to Ma"et ,
It was in the conduct of such persons tbacigittareld osti
against the landlords were most likely t° °
however well-dispose.d they might be, t1"113,t1loctli
• first deal with the tenantry as the former.
Ica
done, because they were not so well acquain exist ter
pteviliaaeycm•
beforee e n i lHtehaeris a
s) 11n9e,,rtiitteesh,c,ouhfgasic}:gruiet tihvatysh
ed
Cot
•
' legal sanction was given to it by theo.'bis astootturiii
roust take this opportunity of expree,i%ht goo. Yoc,
at the appeal made last night by the 11'" peal I'l.oo
Had that gp. j 3,, Fe A
to 'he labourers of England.
Right
from any other roan bat the
should
other
and cot ivtie,:yitshso(uiu:gehlsrttai
(in,tnawhpaepseiani shouldr
frothen intended $
`cite a lee rarsrv,oro'nlo.blad !
have produced teat effect. Tie Right Fie oir.
tot,
l
but upon
quoted from the works of Mr. I.3arke.._
that eesl,l
bert) slieuld always respect the t dentse t.
the 00,
had no objection to the speech
lull extent e
s
Member, for it went to the .
julit.:iidgular,tteicsl:l).eoent.,,Tbßlie,rserfoHantohente.rh, a:,:e.hqin:o,etuerdpf.frroErasah!,_he.
f his
ell
ithise life,
Bight Hon. deprecated
dlatrhoing Baronet in measure
pato': 1-tooinlfe latestot°e:Prub'.::9lll-I.jaill
Lambert's) views. In the speech of the 14°'

ith thc
ei
.1
Selr:ll4tl
I 10h,,, •)
Itjn.
Get

P44r, there was an awkward allusion to Tur.
h(Hear, bear)--where the Hon Member said that
garoe so far in changes of the currency as to de-
it from So. to 3d., and certainly that was horribly
hut he 'ltd not say that afterwards they went
k and wotked up main from Si. to So. —( Hear, hear.)
ray such attempt was made, he believed that the Mi-
'fees bead
ale would soon he the only offering that would ?p-
-meef,..P°Ple• standard,} been told that, if any alteration
bread lin the the capital of the country would
won, search of it ; but no one knew where the
the
kat fr 'H he found. The search, indeed, wouldbe
a
de ttle's. to
Like Cce'ebs in search of a wife, would be
tact,,p. riearching for this invaluible standard, which.
t,eek"'"
.ot exist in any other country. The standard,
itnirprPrzu'
ned, was to be found here alone, and the great
fit were a few wealthy theorists. But when
rnaldle
k lasses had been exhausted of tin it last far-
had bee PP ,"P ep this standard, and when the labourers
.
arott,i'lee'fained in the same manner, the few naillionartes
l'aula to, rounded by a crowd of starving people, who
to 'sten to the schemes of these theorists, nor
the psir °
meats that no distress existed. The ambunt of
°f• ttt°e'd-.4t'"ii was alleged by these persons as the cauae
I),,,°*er.ton've. He denied it. They had heard of the
flit po but that had not been applied to population.
a,:Lkorn was said to have added to the wealth of
°e-tltriYi There was a time when all the popula-
-44 to" the means of labour. That was
n
't•il'c'ofw; and now those theorists who talked about toe
you ra You must go and
rye, a lon said to them, "
Wst
(Ilea'', jou' in Your native land, are superabundant.
He was sorry to see how this question
Nith `. If they asked for a general inquiry, they were
°tie Palittithait was too large ;if the y asked for an inquiry on
ei.:*Y111:11 ar point, they were told that that was pre-
paint which the must not consider.—(Hear;
talltd 'hear, It I" if, in a case o
1, • was )test as strange as l'helsott,.4' toe Coroner should tell the Jury that there w err
-utthrtt sePieions attached to a particular individuia
t,
WNki rang not enter into any examination t
144 er's to throw the slightest doubt upon his clia-
jklit; to
"P`-'se him to danger.any•. He bad no o.b•
pieta bu •
4" tabs, he a fair inquiry into the causes of the (115-
thus gave his support to the motion, and.
is itqe.lied '"
House would not put'
aside the demand tor
44tteat7... had supported the latelyGovernmentw.
tart' not Which he painfully felt was severe, but beiesh.
Y'"fll°t thsguise from himself was absolutely ne
41141uatiakti wit )''gad with the same honesty and deter-
ti" 's k! vhlch he had given his vote then,
. should
his
vote
nOw• In both cases his object was the
l}°", went of the i; bli • good. He hoped that
. the.
ttu'i° W4l4l,n't ir • nor put aside this
41citi°41'hie-' be assured'etinah''n inquiry,
to be not a
k.iati,
to
apoliatio ctonefims'cation and robbery,. but
la,
wt:th 411:1tacertain whether they could not, crmfsisttoentthye
I Zittg 0.°6"1 and good faith, afford somi e
rre)lie
Nlnt • W411)„,e of this country.—(Hear,
4), 'ER was glad to observe t.aeea. decided and
Llsicf ail;er in which Ministers had resisted the m
ble House• He begged also to congratulate.
c'ftteitta' ..„,,4,(1c• Baronet, who closed the last night's
r'.;the nia unanswerale vindication of the wisdom
is-
'44lth'eaLeure of 1819, against the unfounded attacks
ittro(lea that measure had lately been assailed ; though,
11:%'1,1et'o ,Neti,,nc was sanctioned by repeated prospective
1c41,-'a: parliament and had the approbation o
ash:4'l'itt tithe highest 'character. He perfectly con•
isNet. esentiments expressed by the Right Hon.
thattl if those sentiments were erroneous, which
they believe the wre, it roust at least be recollected
Y‘tilatle•Y Who entertainedY them held them in common
brit lale° as , Mr. Pitt, and Lord Gren-
l'hese Mr'
lox held by the vast ma-
h4,,,
~ sentiments, too, were
4,,,u!ti of
tee' intelligent part of the community, who
Ct Who k'neasure of 1819 with the greatest sa
to was persuaded would he as much grieved,
a 1 Ors
'ari ..nced they would be injured, by any attemptas
ti-4,katt its provisions. He denied that shoals
ut re
he like those of 1825 were attributable
ofttefc to cash payments,—for, if the present
ts,,,.“rot/cr e currency had caused these . occuretncers_,
have caused them, not for a time, au pef
hap til,',snd if the. return to cash payments had e
elePressions of price attributed to must
.d
itlik •
prices of all commodities, an
th. a „ son the .
ycat,ccral and universal depression
.0o
ofprices. But
stdetpe 8 °f 1825 were temporary in their duration,
cp,d
ejVas .
tf' common much less of ciintinual
Pricea of c,ommodities were not universa
Por instance, the price of cotton was
,4,,eoainee the return'
to cash payments—but what was
ittit,e?Wit.ntn regard to the chief -article of consumption
;01l'terho he average price of wheat far the five years
.rs
ati, 1825 was 575. a quarter; in the five a
\sitg it was 62s • and in 1830 it was 645. years
ttl,lettii.t4t'il that all articles. of British manufacture had
h had he general market, and would have fallen, Ahiacth-
'4
"" our currency, from the competency w
tt,e,„telatslttt, ehice the war, and to which they la id not been
Fitt' To that cause, and to the improve-
-4rnlfottrehinsry, were to be ascribed all that the Hon.
to
ostt'atlut. Whitehaven had attributed the currency.
10 t'ts.t°e, the Hon. Member called upon the House
totte4le sheet''''
with the currency unless they desired to
dish edistress that prevailed a thousand-fold, and
t:t'pfror,,the gain of a few, the bubble schemes and
tVithi'lla jets which disgraced' the year 1825.
'lst BURRELL said that he and
. those
uel4lteacted, in reference to this question, did
114's tilng beyond a currency convertible into
cotitithell hoped it was scarcely necessary for him to as-
'iltr;el's4'•toe' that no project so inexpedient and
so unjust
1,4
y 444 the late
qt4icy elvered their minds, as a chance in. the
t+iplPlatl of " extent which some gentlemen imagined.
eer_
Sir Robert Peel was one which
it
tlki be :ueh to recommend it, and in his judgment d
',id cos-411 Preferable to any that had been propounded
lt
%%throe'. °I. that discussion. Tie plan was,. that op a.
atllb:'•Y to owested 20 0001. in the Fonda, might be at
'l4lktlt 'eMic notes to that amount, provided the Go-
that °e tte:eure to be made entitled to hold that. 20,0001.
.
Its Wash] Ilty for the payment of the notes in specie ;
Riv • much more ex-
u„ a medium of circulation
ul, and infinitely cheaper, than the present
ii4o- eirreneY. The present amount in circulation
eta.,'"ati sli than between eighteen and twenty mil-
Ils"4411Y •fl'elt was maintained at a cost of. 1,400,0001.
stetcsa L,7,';d let it be remembered that that sum was
80 ilh4tanition to the annual burdens of the country.f Asm
of the boo &jai ffects resulting ru
1440:1,4, ritro; iasue of paper, he referred to the case of
Whose name many of the States of Europer
tliotthi'a the 'here the silver rouble was not a legal
. temlc
14 ,6 it ~PlPer rouble was. He therefore felt that,
htlark,,—ight be in the highest degree unfair and unwise
Cao th,c currency by too extensive en issue of paper,
tt4.lta:,,';e cased upon security such as would satisfy
ca't•yetst„et Commissioneis, and a paper currency at all
)44te'ry ijiet,'ible into gold, would be a great boon to the
qtae, Preseat depressed condition.
',RISON said, that when he
witnessed such
'Lad already been produced by tampering with the
It:ittgs:itute could but regard any project for a urthe.r
ttt'i4tit, the Utmost alarm. Were they to proceed in
tatutattsg.,oo the subject of the currency according to the
'4,ation of the Hon. Member for Whitehaven, it
'''l'a°l,otac to this—that before many months would pass
tOosktlla panic must take place as that of 1825 ; and
cs'„Jota,"l'lc the House, did they suppose that the coon-
the it'h'ar such an occurrence twice? Could any
4t "ti's Se it more than once ? The public . felt that
lo,111w0,41) come when they must la ave something fixed,
th4C,e,4 t. 41 ~she one of the first duties of a reformed Par-
etite,t,'4l:v4„'"rd their constituents the fullest assurance.
144'444'114 disturb esisting contracts. Of this_abee_
therel tb4''t the slightest doubt—that if the manor
ileas distant idea that
116.'4 a entertaved the most
of value
fetia'l}' e °Y Project for altering the standard
press
0 • a'd iet"tain d b that House, they would
Pli, WithH ar ) It was his
tvels, thitPetations innumerable.--( e •
Fattest as . the circulation, so far from being scanty,
to elan at
Yth'l'g, too bundan;,'as the state of the money
the pr, a
orte, b.. in
moment proved. The Bank of
aut Cheat" notes r 1 in many instances doing. all in its power
44. al fete MtO circulation ; but as fast as they went
to °a• s• • h fm of deposits.
.1
the hater eam in te or
e e"); whom the present motion was submitted
taloa t 4, lan,' tied to say that his chief object was the
Plat,ittleverinterest• but a relief to that class
valise• ethsts,ei,'ffected in the 'manner which he contem-
thsf
eta oh; that' by a depreciation of the standardin
n,trY, aule in the currency was not sougiat for ty
ern tt•• anY alteration of it was decidedly unpo-
et InPakas4 tsh:l•,) The effect of the alteration con-
°, the ntle ports ion. Member for Whatehaven would be
Nao-,°ther. Tna of the community gain at the expense
t filted f 'le did not ob. .t to one proposition that
vBlo:Nilersterlt the Hon. Mejneitber for Essex ; he alluded
lieu.) Was saivnedard of silver and gold, provided the same
that The it e° the former as to the latter.--(Qi.leas
Proper :4. Gentleman concluded with saying,
tbreductionu -„,(4. all useless places and pensions, a
labour e Taking the expenditure of the Government,
the e the
na;'aY all unnecessary obstructions from
„Pantry. 'Ply way to confer a permanent good on
J.WIIOT,„
sn. `, Uet,islitleth lEed h. • root
d loud SLEY
cries of °' Que„
narendere
-4 inaudible for several minutes. If
din not feel inclined I" to give him a rear-