The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-03 00:00:00

(PRICE 71).)

(Mr. Hume), on one point. He considered that good
-night arise from the appointment of the commission,
•tnd he therefore could not go along with him in denomi-
nating it a milk and water affair. He believed the noble
!ord opposite, when he stated that it was the determina-
tion of Ministers to have the measure thoroughly
sifted, but why they should act in a manner calculated to
inspire distrust and alarm rather than confidence, he could
not tell. He had every confidence in the noble lord opposite
but he had no confidence in his Majesty's minis-
ters, after they had brought forward such a shuffling
measure as they had done. (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
So far from wishing to make any sacrifice for the purpose
of keeping those gentlemen in, he would do all in him
power to help to kick them out. (Laughter.) If the
government wished to be strong, and powerful, and to se-
cure to itself the public voice, they must act in a very dif-
ferent way from what they had done of late. The
Whigs of the present day were not at all like
the Whigs of seventy years ago. ( Great cheering. )
If they wished to be powerful, to have the support of the
public, let them only act in a more manly way ; they
would, by such a course, gain the good-will and support
of the entire public, when they would not require
to mind or feel any alarm at the hostility of
another house, which, in such a case, must
do as it did before—yield before such a mighty strength.
He did not object to the commission, but he wished to
see a recognition of the full principle on the part
of the house—not merely by the Government. It
was now no secret, that a meeting had been held
that day between the noble lord and many mem-
bers of that house; therefore thel.e could bI no'
breach of confidence in now alluding to it. All that he
would say was then pressed upon the government. The
noble lord was told to regulate the proposition as he
plea ed, to put it into any words he might think fit, to only
let the principle be fairly before the House of Commons,
and he would have it all his own way. The moment the
commission was recommended by the ministry, they
had gone as far as he (Colonel D.) would go ; but then
why not let the house also affirm it ? ( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) It almost looked as if the noble lord and his
colleagues were not sincere. (Cheers.) He would not
think so—he knew them to be perfectly so, but the j.
conduct made him use expressions that he did n.
like. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He &list say that they
acted with a degree of imbecility that perfectly astonished
their most warm admirers. (Cheers.) He really hardly
knew what to do ( A laugh); he thought it would be a
thousand pities if the question should not be carried by a
large majority ; but then what would be said out of doors?
Why, those who voted for the previous ques ion would
be set down as altogether opposed to the moi ion, the prin-
ciple of which they most cordially approved of. That
would naturally be the opinion of those who were
unacquainted with the forms of the house. ( Hear. )
What could be the meaning of it? The public would
suspect that something sinister was concealed behind, and
undoubtedly suppose the house was not sincere, and
thereby it would suffer materially in the estimation
of the public. ( Hear.) As to the government, he knew
not on what ground they could expect the confidence of
the house, and if his hon. friend pressed his motion he
should feel bound to vote in support of it.
Colonel EVANS said that the present dilemma of Mi-
nisters had been occasioned by the half measures which
.they had brought forward. '1 he noble lord had asked for
the confidence of the house in his Majesty's Government.
It was a very natural question for gentlemen on the other side
of the house to ask what that government was—who it was
composed of? At this moment he was totally ignorant of who
composed it, and he really thought the country ought to be
told who the members of the government were. The hon.
member for Middlesex had stated some very good
reasons for refusing to give his confidence to it, presuming
government to consist of those whom he supposed it to be
formed by, although there were doubts about who did
compose it. He (the gallant colonel) would add to
those reasons why he would- refuse to confide in it.
The noble lord had stated his opinion much more
distinctly upon the motion before the house than he hail
expected to hear; but even if the noble lord had stated in
the most distinct terms his accordance in the propriety of
the motion, still he (the gallant colonel) would not have
depended upon or put his confidence in the Government in
respect of the success of the motion ; and he would give his
reason for saying so. The noble lord had brought forward
motions upon various occasions, before he came into office,
for the repeal of taxes—for instance, for the repeal of
taxes upon knowledge-o'nd after he had come into office
he had over and over again declared that his opinion upon
that subject was unchanged ; but notwithstanding that,
Government had done nothing in the way of relieving
those grievous taxes. ( Hear, hear.) The noble lord
stated that he was not in a situation to express an opinion
upon the amount of the revenue of the church in Ireland.
Why it was only in February last that he stated the amount
of that revenue to be about 600,0001. He must have been
of opinion at that time that that was the amount of it, al-
though doubts had subsequently taken possession of his
mind upon the subject. It was clear that the general feel-
ing of a large majority of the house was, that that property
ought to be appropriated by the state, and having heard
no reason assigned why the present motion ought to be
refused, he certainly should give it his support.
Colonel CONOLLY said he was in hopes that the
councillors of the Crown would not have had recourse to
the wretched expedient which they had recourse to
on the present occasion. ( Hear, hear, hear.) He was
aware of the difficulties in which the Government
were placed, and would be happy to allow them to ar-
range them in any way in the world ; but in the course
they had adopted he could not help thinking that
they were trifling with the interests of the religion
of the people of Ireland by putting off and shuffling off the
consideration of the question as they had done
(Cries of " Hear, hear") ; and for his own part, he would
rather of the two that they should affirm the principle
of the motion than shuffle with it. (Cheers.) He
could not find words strong enough to express his feelings
at such conduct. When the government considered the im-
portant interests and the agitated state of Ireland, they ought
to declare what their opinion was upon this subject. But the
noble lord had given the house to understand that he con-
curred in the motion of the honourable member
(Mr. Ward). A proposition of a more revolutionary
nature he (Colonel Conolly) had never heard sub-
mitted to a deliberative assembly ; it was nothing more or
less than a distinct proposition to wrest from the house the
admission of a principle of spoliation—first, that if was
necessary ; secondly, that it was right ; and thirdly, that
it ought to be acted upon. He denied every one of those
propositions. ( Cheers.) He denied them in the most solemn
manner, and he should be wanting in his duty to those
who had sent him there if he did not express his feelings
as openly and as strongly as possible. He would not wish
to say anything that could hurt the feelings of any indi-
vidual, but he certainly must say that the course adopted on
the present occasion was most equivocal and contemptible.
He denied the principle on which it was sought to get the
house to interfere. He denied the right of Parliament
to interfere at all, unless it was previously admitted
that the house had no authority to make any grant that had
been made. The course that was at present proposed
would impart interminable difficulties. Nothing was safe.
Did it not invade every thing? Was any thing secure?
Was the royal ward, was a patent, was a charter—was
any thing secure if that principle were once adopt-
ed ?, (Hear, hear, hear.) Was it not like letting
loose the dogs of war ? (Laughter.) Was it not spOlia7
tion in the most daring aspect ? (Laughter, ) Perhaps
hon. gentlemen might nut absolutely agree with him
(Continued laughter), but he would ask them to look into
historical events, and then to say whether they did not find
the spoliation of the church degenerated into the spo-
liation of every thing else? ( Hear, hear, hear.) It had
been his humble lot, perhaps, to have anticipated in
some degree that result when a certain bill was brought
into the house. This was merely the march, the progress
of that course of proceeding ( Cheers from the oppositien)
which presented itself under the tempting shape. of Reform,
( Hear and laughter.) He had stated in his place in that house
that that would be the conclusion of the destructive principle
which was to destroy every man's property, and annul
every man's rights. If there was any man in that house
more than another that would, by his devoted attachment
to the church, sacrifice his own property rather than
see it taken away from the church, he claimed
that pre-eminence himself. (Cries of Ilear, hear. )
He was satisfied that that Chroh had clone its duty. He
heeded not the derision or sneers of those who did not esti-
mate the spiritual wants of Ireland at so much as he
He would repeat the opinion of his friend the hqn, baronet;
the member for the University of oxford : that hop.
baronet had introduced an expression which he (Colonel
Conolly) should ever hear with deli&ht—‘‘ the ex-
pansive farce of Protestantism," (Oh, and laughter.)
truth w
Ile repeated) that set long as
was rut
at stake,ould hebes
to here, or a Christian hereafter,would -
periar to error—while every thing that man could look
cherish and promulguate the opinions he h,e',i.aved in.
He asserted that there was another prie,ciide at the bottom
of this motion—it was a sacriAoe at the shrine ofagita-
tion—it was a misixable attempt to satisfy a cry which it
should have rather been the duty of the Goe;•;atient to
put an end to. The 'evidence adduced hy the late right
hon. Secretary, who [Here the hon., memher made
pause, which occasioned considerable laughterl—whose
noble and manly course he wished that others had had the
courage to imitate,---vvhose knowledge of the actual state
of Ireland would rot permit him to part with, an article
ar title of what ways c reatia i to, itivielfge and Dr..,;,‘ 't'