The Sun.
London, England, 1805-05-07 00:00:00

Sensibility was riot confined ,to the 'breams of men
of birth or edutation: A common clerk, when de.
feted in fraud, may:feel as acutely as the Noble
Lord could possibly, do. In addition, to the loss of
charaeter,' be has to deplore the loss of•employment
and of bread. His svileelmis children are reduced to
want, and yet with this accumulation of misery, les.
rice and law are not satisfied, but press stn to seize
their victim.
.Irothe nathe,therefine, of these minor
delinquents, in the name of private jystice and public
security, he called (medic House to fume, that when
a person in a high official . situation had connived
at the malversation of those under him, and had
this been guilty of a gross violation' of the law, he
sheuld not he permitted to escape with impunity.
What. would the future reader of our history say,
when he found that the House after having deter.
mined the Noble Lord's crime, had proceeded no
further ?—What ? but that_ they hail been guilty of
a gross dereliction of their duty. The Honourable
Gentleman placed these arguments in a variety of
' lights. He alluded to the Address from the City
of London, anti severely censured those who had
advised. His Majesty to return an equivocal an.
ewer, in • which the King expressed his determi.-
, nation of guarding the expenditure of the Public
Money, but cautieusly avoided saying a word
about the expultion of Lord
.Melville from all
situations of trust or profit. However improper
it might be, eat all time* to attend to popular
, opinion, yet in the present case, when the justice
of that opinion- was so' evident, that he who ran
might read, it was the duty of the Hottie.to listen
to it. There were three modes of procedure, any
one of which the, House might with propriety
adopt ; impeachment, criminal prosecution, or an
Address,
,hush as he meant to propose. The last
'oo by. far the most lenient, and he would there.
fore now move, That His Majesty's Message be
taken into
,cmsidetatiee, with the intention• of of.
terwards moving, :That an
_humble Address be
',presented ,to His Majesty, praying that he, would
;he graciously pleased to order Lord Melville to be
removed from hisCeuecili and Presence for ever.
CILANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER
observed, that if the Hon. Gentleman afturded
hiM. the upportuvity which he wished fur, of stating
his communication, the greater part of the 1-lon.
'Gentleman', speech would have been rendered unne-
' eessary. The communication was this : That His.
Majesty hall been adatised to strike Lord Melville's •
name out of the' list of Privy Cotincillors, and His•
Majesty had accordingly given directions, that at
the-fiestoneeting of the CoonCii the erasure should
take plait. lie would explain, in a few ,words, why
he had not offered such advice sooner. The,. klnn. 1
Gentleman had alluded to the discussions of the toth
ult. He begged the House to' call to their red& !
leetion the events of that evening. It was proposed
by, the lion. Gentlemae that His Majesty'should be
addressed try remove Lotd Melville front his Presence'
and Councils for ever. , What was the part.he (Mr. !
Pyre) had there taken ?;,He heel avoidettany discus.
skin of tite.subjett,' contenting himself with stating,
that Lord Melville had aetuelly resigned his Chair
at the head 'of the Admiralty Board, and that all
prospeit of hie' 'resuming-,a situatisin of Power and
Confidence' was extinct, unless any circumstances
ihouid arise which might indoce. the How to,alter
the opihion'they had fortned of his' condutt. Many
heal expressed their onwilling-nef:c at that period,
and as thiegs then stOA, to itdik an additional
. wound on the Noble Lord.' He did riot even un.
derttand it to be the decisive wish of the Hen. pc,..
hiMSO,
,thiat'SUCil a step should- be taken.
The' Motion for the Address was withdrawn, and
the Resolotiona ,of • the pmeceding Monday were
&imply sit&red to be leid before His Majesty, with,.
°tit Conceiving.' therefore, that it was
nut the wish of the House, 'he did not then think it
his duty to advise His Majesty to expel Lord' Mel.'
ville Coon his Councils, which he 'Weld certainly
have .coesidered himself' bound to ,do had lie, line.
glued ' that this was intended only as a milder way
of effeerting the same purpose. A subsequent notice:.
was given of a renewal of the Motion in its present .
loom. , In the course of , what passed in" the 'inter. •
temediate,-Debates, and from what he gathered of the
sentiments of many most respettable Members of
the House, wile, in the first instance, were averse
so time expulsion, he felt the propriety of the mew.
sure, as he was convinced that it had become the
tense tilthe House. Having ruitiofted himself that
such was the opinion of the Noose, he had deemed it
desirable to prevent any useless discussion, by:ane
ticiparing their determinatiun ; anti ha therefore
`thought. it his defy to advise His 11/10,,esty to erase
Lord Melville's name from the List of Privy
Counctilerse Whatevit may he my deference to
" the H.Ouse '!of Cprtunt.ini, etld however anxious:
I.11)ay:i?c to accede Cu' their wishes," .added the
Right flon. Gentle Man, ,in a tone of uncommon
interest, " I certainly felt a most
_deep and bitter.
sr piing, in heing compelled to be the Monument of
rr rendering still mere severe the punishment of the
" Noble Personage. It is a feeling of which I am
" not ashamed. It,
Is
„ a feeling :which I cannot
drive front my bottom.. It. is a feeling which
nothing but my coraviCtion of the opinion of
" Pediment, and my scnse',cf Public ditty could
possible haVe overcome," Under these cireum.
stances, he put it to the candour of the House, whe-
, they or not the present discussion should be pCrae.
'Vele d In ?
Me. FOX ciingratulated the Honse and the Coun.
try on the complete triumph of the cause of justice.
He only-wished that it had heen'obtairied in a dif.
ferent manner. The Right Hon. Gentle Man had
expressed greae deference to the sense of the House :
ire wished he had colletted that.sense from' the dis.
suasion' of the'. loth tilt, In, that discussion the
necessity under which the ,Executive Power lasi
to skew its displeasure to the Noble Lord mots
strongly urged. • Indeed, if the Right Hon. Gen.
tieman had not colleted the 'sense of the House froM
. time proceedings of that evening, by what Means did
he acquire a knowledge of it ? Was the Country to
believe, that the expulsion of Lord Melville was a
compromise That it-resulted front certain differ.
ences which were said-to exist in the Cabinet a few
dpys ago 1 A long period had elapsed since the
notice of his 'Hon, Friend ; when, very relottaptly,
as he himself fairly acknowledged, he thought the
Majority of the'House would agree to the Motion,
within half op hater of-the time whet! it was to.

be
,14.,:nght forwaril, the Right. Hon. Gentleman
comes down and interposes his communicati,m.—
The battle of the Noble Lord had been obstinately.
fought to the last moment. What had been thus
tardily begun would; hi hoped, be speedily com-
pleted, and accompanied by a demonstration, that
Ministers and Parliament were determined not only
to punish Lord Melville, but closely to investigate
all the other a4s -of malversation which crowded
the pages of the Reports of the Commissioners of
Naval Inquiry. He assured the House, that the
Public mind was very seriously agitated upon this
subjedrand nothing but such a demonstration could
calm it.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
explanation, utterly- and peremptorily disclaimed
having been induced to take the step that, he had
taken by any political influence nut of doors. He
repeated the reasons which led him to adopt it, and
contended, that he had' as rod a right to form a
preVious estimate of the disposition of the Home as
the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who were in
the habit 'of doing so perpetually.
Mr. FOX again expressed his surprise, that the
Right Hun. Gentleman had not ascertained' the dis-
position of the House from the event of the debate
on the 10th tilt.

• Tht CIIANCE4LOR of EXCHEQUER
said, he had not drawn from that debate the inference
which the Hon.' Gentleman had done. .
Mr. W,PUNIMS said, it would he in the re.
collet:lion of the House that the Hon. Gentleman
opposite had &tied in being one of the only two
who had been erased from the. Privy Council in the.
present reign. He had boasted that he himselland
•the late Duke of Devonshire were these two, and
'he expressed a with that Lord Melville should not,
be associated with them.;. The question for the
Address to remove Lord IN/Itlyille had been brought
forward to feel the poise of the House, but the as.
.surance of the CHANCELLOR of the EXC.'S/MX/RR.,
that the simple vote would be, as long as it should
last, an 011 c dual bar to Lord Melville's re-entrance
public life, was accepted as a cop piete pledge,
and the House and the Gentlemen themelves rested
,satisiied with it. The lion, Gentleman giving
loose to the coarsest language against Lord Mel.
ville described him as a sharer in the pluntier'of the
public. The House had found, that Lord Melville.
had connived at Mr. Trotter's making profit of the
public money ; but nobody , had stated. that the-
Nobly Lord had any shame in.it. If any one chose
to make such a charge, he would meet him upon it.
The Honourable Gentleman had, complained of the
want of cotnpuntlious feelings in Lord Melville.
Were compunttious feelings to be asked for from
Lord Melville alone. Was he to be hunted down
without noticing delinquents of much greater mag.
nitude. It was in the trcollalion of many Gentle.
:men, that from 1765, when Lord Holland ceased
• to be Paymaster, till 1782, Lord Holland had de.
rived interest to.the amount of i;,000l. from the
use of the public money, and 'it was well known,
that the expensive speculations of the Hon. Gentle.
.man opposite, as he may chUse to call them, but
•more' properly speaking the extravagant gambling
of his early life,. was defrayed from this source.
This was a 'proof that the House had not at all times
been .sojuitas it was at ,present.

Mr. FOX said, the Hon. Gentleman's allusion,
ilcompletely successful, could have but one effect,
that of creating an uneasy' sensation in his mind.
For so fat from being a defence of Lord Mt!villa,
it could only tend to the aggravation of his guilt,
inasmuch as if, it was crimitiel to make use of the
public balances before The Ad tali this subjed passed,,
it must be much in.oe decidedly criminal after,
His filial love could never be altered .by that;
have been its nature.
transadion, whatever may
But the case was. as clear es light, and as distant
as possible from that of
,Lord Melville. There
was no prohibitory law, and the pradice wait uni:
form. Some Lawyer; were-of opinion, that the in.
terest ao made' ought to he accounted for ; hut other
Lawyers, of equal eminence,- were.of the contrary
opinion. . That was the state of the case on varic:nac
occasions when the subjed had been' agitated in .the
House; he would not say during Lord Rocking.
him's administration, for that ,may .be iupposed.
partial to him, but also frequently during Lord
North's Administration, -which could.riot he suppes.
ed by any means frienttly to him, In the Reports
of the House it was expressly stared, that the prim,
Lice had prevailed with a very few exceptions,.
atriong.whoin was the father of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman opposite (the late Lord Chatham),
The oradice had Iwo followed by Mr. Burke,
Mr: Barre, and this very .Lord till his-
salary was increased as a compensation for the
discontinuance. What was there then, in .the
case of Lord Holland like that tit Lord Mel.
? Bet the Honourable Gentleman wanted to
put him also in the situation of Lord Melville.
The' Ge`ntleman 'aid, and said truly,
he had lost large sums •in gambling, and argued,
that because these sums were supplied by his father,
they were supplied, from the Public Money. Un.
doubtedly-, any person nearly related to Lord Mel.
ville 'must have feelings that were entitled to corn.
miseration, though it wa, unbecoming to sinew them
here. On this consideration, he had no animosity.
to the Hon. Gentleman for what he had adduced,
with a view to hurt his feelings, which he had not
done, the only eft-eft of . this part of his Speech
having been'to aggravate Lord Melville's guilt.
. Mr. WHITBREAD said, in explanation, he bad
never charged Lord Melville with participating in
the plunder Of the Public, because that had not
appeared. If hereafter it should be made oat, he
would bring the Charge: This inference had arisen
from what he had said of Lord Melville's connivance
at Mr. Trotter's misuse of the Public money. Be
would not press. his Motion, though he thought the
House of Commons and the Majesty 'of the Crown
.would have been more satisfied' if the erasure had
taken place in consequence of the Address of the
House. One question only he wished to have an.
swered before he withdraw the Motion. Did Lord
Melville
?hold any office under the Crown during
plre. -
The CHANCELLUR, of tine EXCHEQUER said, he
believed lte did not.
Mr. FOX "id! 'therC was a report abroad, that
one of the offices held by the Noble Lord was dur.
ing pleasufec I,sti Motion relative to th‘e 9rantl

ly

~n

n'

a

in Scotland, of which notice h.RI bean give.
Noble Friend of his( Lol. now absent
from a circoinstince which every pct
regatta,
would show how this Was. •
Mr. WHITH;EAD then withdrew his Aoton.
Mr. Gag 4 det,:ried Lord 11. Petty's notice of
tti
Motion relative to the. Grants of &C.
Lard Melville, till to.tnOrrow se'nnight.
The Arniy Inquiry "nil was read a second time,
and ordered to lie committed on Friday.
Sir roma NaWroat give notice, that torn
se'nnight he should move for a Commission of In•
quiry of this-kind with resped to If
The Naval Inquiry Continuation Bill was read a
second rime, and ordered to' be Col2llllilrell 011 Fri.

. _
day.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL. rnlvsti the stem'
reading of the Curates' Residence Bill.
Mr. WESTERN thought a considerable .f*
ich went sh
oould
be given to consider this Bill, wh
vent the Constitution of the Church Property. Ho
have the power of 0 s,igning the Income, an
ire '
d spar'
lion of the Glebe, without any obligation t 0 g
Resident Curate. 13ishep.ho'od
thought it particularly wrung that the
Mr. CR E sys Y waralso adverse to the 811.
The krioaNay,-GENsiAr. stated, the 81l Wl'
ixaMY similar po one that had been brotlght hi
Wl'
the House, in the last and the preceding 5:.4,1"1,44
purpose of filling the Blanks, his Hon. and Learned Friend Sir W. Stott') "e
wished the Bill. to go through` a Committee for the
stun to take lace on Wednesday next. , to kg
Sir J. WROTTESLEY wished some coulon,- de.
used with respea to the Glebe, which °4(jetire
stroyerl by a temporary possessor ; lie ''''''. "
'no more than the house and garden. I 'cll Sir
Some further ccmversatian ensued, in wit Itt
Wm. SCOTT deClared the suggestion of ihei, ',,
speaker worthy to be attended to, and spe i
and
support. of the Bill ; and the further dISCs.
as did Mr. For. Low" ti t
the ATTORNEY GENERAL;:--L•-rd f"CliE''
.The Hilt was read a second times
and
be against it. ' • ot`i'l de 0
d
be eons:pitted to-morrow. ' n the
second time—to be corriiviitted"
Irish Common Lands Partition Bill was to
On the motion of Mr. J.s.stas firzotast" i u
I\i'l r • G EO.,fON S 0 I 4 a r gave notice, that he 1413
to.morrow move for -leave to bring in a"`
amend the Irish County,Ruad Bill. hish
Mr. Las moved the second reading of the
Market Tow n. NI/Ater Supply Ado
tO.lllollo' i ...II
ANDER, Who stated, that the Bill
After a short conversation' between Mr. Atirclr:
i Or Lief 1
Witil
the interests of the Canals • anti P'" , ' air
explanation of the proiisions of Canals,;
Bill, be'inglii,ll
intended la carry into effeet the MO of,','': to
Parliament of the 29th and 34th aidshe A`nwcoto
Bill was read a second time,nd ed to bc
nutted on Monday next. ' es oft n°'
The CHANCELLOR of the Excx t Qv.- awe for
woukl int.tf' ~
lice,. thit on Wednesday next 'he shiuld ,nio the
the appointment of a. Committee to itiquird's Com
pany mid the Government
state.of the Accounts between the Flit- I
,
REPORT OF SIIPPLA.
. of 11'4
Ilia Ft i
Mr. A
~.. • LIXANDIER brought up' the 1,.r-;) ~,neCo
Committee of Supply ; and the Re, itic, orsai,
ing tile *Extiabrdinaries of 4he AMY 144 wi,eibet
Mr. FRANKLANI) wished. to kn", 010 t'
it was intended to Make any allowance of ►',ny„bieh
Field Officers in the wooden cncamPiatnol. 'tributed
the Troops were so advantageously '''' ~....
color'.
of this Country'
throughout the line of defence of the .e pit'
They had titi' iparadesclay of h" e IP'
~ga 4 every t iin large
1,
mews, and the Troops were exrrio( ~ a itier;*
dies it the mancouvres of an Army tw'tiiela Ow'
Cdinpments ;
There. was
,a large allowance of lOrage I? _oh the
moment the Troops took the field in nlaa al,
cers in proper - time, according to thetrear%o gip
n Why e
op
lOWittlqe: should not, be Made to them in 'wisely ill°
and he saw no MOO- ft, 0,
ePPlPpments, when the duty' tv'As P

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l_v.' ns, to which, on the IVloti►~n :of I‘','„, 0,0:
esn.?, the Account of rite deficiency of thet,o:,Pcila
List'
Session for defraying the oleos t 1, soi
t was referred, and the sum of I°.4sbeis%
r° mikegood the same• be fecal'
resumed, tilt Report was ordsted 40
morrow, i
, Wafo A
On the
Motion Of the SICIttII I' . ifelv,
Committee Pyrech' i 4
was appointed to ptce b.I
the E).tpances of the Pay and Clothing of rile Ailoirs
of Great Britain for they ear ig°s i °Il
ring h.
antes to Subaltern Officers of Militia darin-01,914
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eililettia'r
ilreifi. 1ica131.1., rillll4 ecri-c values.
:It $4l. 91:111f*r
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The CH ANC/LI. 0 a of the lgc 14 EA. , ,vOOl%
°;:efi enEclSHeiUslottuoMtjfelatisill:JaSittottLiYW:nOettlralyditifboberenbitireteeti:ll4l:lo:Ytil-341: fiC.o:iirlt 11,0use 1:11?:ii ift;
the Journals of the House "t for mokinsl,l: 00101,0
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to
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IP.tl°oll:,,,ettorit,l,
the
Mr. lama's FITZORRALD moved Ih-" I Jr' 0
Lic poet) ► , he
Pi in ire , Lic
which the Lords of the Tr,0091 ' po.'
unix Orfngs, and .01. their .541101.0
. " .