The Sun.
London, England, 1805-02-13 00:00:00

posite reasonings. The Leaumt,Cyeptlemant although.
he allowed that the unexPlaineil:Treaty .of St. 11:'
defonso Ifforded a cotupiete iattilifieetthen of Wak.,
with SpAo, , Yet. se.pned `Ao,Wisit thalsipmerltini,
more d-rieve had appeared in the conduCt OF
the British Government to Spain on , the 'break-
,ing out-of...thee War te i the h ',ince. eflat, in_
stead of the forbearance send moderation which had
elestinguished the conduet of oar Court to that of
eSeerine and by 'whisk eve hal vaittly hoped to. secure
the: Neutrality of ' that Fewer, we lied direetcd a
message to the Spanish Covernpent, reOuiring a ca.
tegorieal answer, conteinino a complete explanation
how far Spain conceived herself to be bound t)y the
'neat), of St. Ildeloneo. ' In. this wish heAnust to-
tally * dissent frindilie:Leerned„Gentlemen..Whae:
o
would have been the. rtklt ;of: such a prOceedipg r
What answer should we have received from that '
Cour t end what ienPreoi9Peeohld have been made
by •
4it
demand calculated to irritate and provoke
those 'se hoe) the Learned Geetleman admitted'
•(and' in., this point, he petfeCily 'agreed with;
him) it was our true policy to I,9othe apd cop:
ciliate. . Should we have attained our objeell
should we hoe received- a deeisive negativa. or at'.
firmative ?i, the 0 '1'1“.! Govern-,
ifi not, 'l'l“overn-,
-merit of 'Spain' would haveleplied, 6, We have, no
desi-re to ad up.to the conditions of the Treaty, we
rather wish to .avoid doing so, and we ask. for time
to ete,ble us to concert the beStenea,tircs fur eluding
them." l'hepe 'had ~His . Majesty 'a Ministers re.'
ceivcd such an answer, would the, Learned Gentle.,
Man have been prepared to advise them to deny the,.
Spanish apelfeation for a prolongation of the de-
lay'' He rather thought not, . He rather, thbdght
,the Leireede Gentleman would have been nothing
in such , 4111 • answer but ee request ftorn a weak
and oppresse&Go.vernment, `which it would hare
IWO the highest cruelty, to refuse. Th{: result
would thus have ,been siettiler to what its has been
in the .prociedings adopted, by , the British CAI.
net, with itheeineonveniepee, f,uperadded, of bay.
ing causelessly agitated a ottestien" welch motives
of huinauitY' and prudence ituperiously demanded
shOuld -bc. suffered, to lie derpeeteu 'He confessed
that he was one who 'had waited with exces.
sive -anxiety' for: the prodeetion ,ef the .docu,.
reents,:froM . which alone it ;wee, possible to form
an'accurate judgment of the condnet pursued by the
two Adminisfrations .who.blutred in . the disz:o,sions
which had taken place with Spain. , He tee. ieex.
pressible satisfaction :in ltatiege that threteelt the
Whole course of ethem, he found ehe same ueiform
tone of lenity' and forbearance towards, Spain.--41e
traced if through all the dispatches from his Noble
Frieed:eLord Hatekesbury ; he traced it in the
lestruCtions which proceeded from tho 'present
:Noble Secretary et Statee --, he' traced it in
those
,emphatic words to 'our Minister at Madrid,
0' to make one moro.effore, it possible, to preserve
• a state of Peace with Spaip.", Deeply. sensible as
he was of the truth of the feels which he'had stated;
he humbly preituned' toeimplore thefrHoue to pitose
before they gave their votes for the Amendmentof.
'feted -to' them. Ile could not say what were the real
'Motives of th•.! Hon. Gentleman who had proposed
.it. lie !eel no doubt that they, were pure; hut he
loudly called to the I lose not to agree ,o a Motions`
replete in its eensequences with injury toGreat
Britain—to a Motion which, it i.f were adePted,
weeldiewer this Cewere ill the estimation of ell
lettrete---Would 1 ,wer the virit of the iehabitants
of this Conte ry--weuld ueltrece the nerve's of every
13,,:,,i5et &Vier and Smiler new engaged in the pro.
tt etioh of Old 13ngtan-I,,aed induce them to believe,
that instead, of fighting for their Country, they are
centerebeg in the deices; of the : meat lawless amid
dishoneorable ovtr:-ge.
"Dr. LAWREN'..:E allowed that when he rose
yesteedly evening, for the purpose of delivering his,
sentiments on this 3%0111 . question (an intention
which, Was frOstratel Imy the adjournment of the
debate), it wan his deterthination to confine himself
to that part of the sullied which bad been handled
by the Lvarned Grotlemito who closed that discus-
Sion Ole Advocate General). Now, however, for
several reasons, one of whielt was die able observa-
thins that had' been made on that speech by the
to:Arned Gentleman who opened' the debate of
this evcni"l", awl 'another, same remarks that bad
falici from dice Right Hon. Gentleman whom be
new followed, he eunfessed that he felt an idnclina
tion to take a wider range in the discussion than
that :which ht had ar first proptised co hithaelf. .He
would never sit tamely in thaz House and hear k
asserted, that we should not disapprove the pro-
ceedings of an Administration lest such a disappro-
bation should humiliate the Cotintry in the eyes of
terope, and unnerve the ;also ofeopr britv# country-
men
,who we,re.englad its CSpCAISThi; our eiiiiirch—.
He would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman," that the
avowal of erroOnstead of being humiliating, was
hielily lionoehible., and thee little dependence could
k placed on the velour of men who fought blindly,
without having entered into the merits of the dis-
'pose, and , to whom
,the: peewit for tight ei for
wrong was equally.desiraVe. lie 'owned 'he felt
the greatest indignation 'when' he he ird such a doe,.
trines introduced into that HOUse ; and he could
not refrain from openly avowing that indignation.
Ile would not be deterred. from expressing his on.
,disguised sentimerkts on this subject, by bejng told
[het a Spanish War is floPtilar in this Country,.
0e had no doubt that an" enemy, rich in .01.
lake, and, weak in power, "was a popular enemy;
but,, surely, these were not fads to be stated in that
Hour as . arguments at convince -them that they
ought In contuve at fraud and ontrage; and abstain,
from censuring the perpetrators, because their meae
Sorel' were popular. [rhe Learned Gentleman here
went into a most ample examination of the official do
euateola tm the Table. Ile extended hi remarks to such
a:length, and entered into the subject with so much
feleutenees, that it is impoesible tot us to folloW
higi through his detail, ] He 'condemned the Con.
duff of the Administration in the mast jioint.
titmanner, And availed himself 'of every op,
pc)rt unity that the Papers afforded him to. censure
their proceediegs. From the filet instructions of
Lord Ilieekesbury to the last Note frOm Mr.r Frere,
all, in Itisopinion,. was oee chaostic Masi of pusiL
lanimity and indecision,, le the 4esteinstete'e, sttel
antra ee end vielenee .in- the last. He contfeenned
b .
the levity with which the information of the Wilier.
niati Colonel, as the Right Hun. Grolleman had

r thntighe prhper to call him, had been rneetioneda
The la•A'4l4l-; that the Brigade to which the Cob.. 1
'-'rel.-belonOTivas to make part of the ,EXpeclitton,to
•'WsCa`y,firtrit'the Commandant Itad wattten, to -the.
Colonel tO &at effedvanda afterwards Written. that.
'the Order '.Was countermanded.' He censored the
ire ~irr,hce that was, attached to an Armahent of
-three Theline; antiethoeght it not unreason.
able that Spain should be at -liberty to use its forces
to quell an interior disturbance. lie would not have
trespassed so on the' attention of the Houses.
•but thbt this.was a sabjr,kt intithatelaSebrineCted with
his prilassion,' When
,we called upon. the. Nations,
of Europe -to support whatever of
.ciVilizathin :there
was remaining in Europe, it was' necessary that we
'should endeavour to keep our own• Consciences free
'from any atts that could .Weaken oar appeal. We
shohld not seek' to 'relax 'the ties by which men
were hiSbertn bh-utid to the principles- of relitude..
We should not seek foraprecedcnt wrong,not
make case's Our -Imo violations. 'Jo, coal.
men cases he would iiot.go against the kente of, the
'House (He had.exp-erieszeed some itserrapioaLfrom
congT3big, Lee.); but in cases like this, it was for
the House to consider whether it would become it
to decide without -hearing the best arguments. that
..
could be'Offered ; for hiMself nothing should deter •
hiM from saying what his duty and his 'aense dietated
on an oCeasion So truly iniportanta -• •
The MASTER :of the ROLLS said, 'he would
•,Confipe'himself to. the topics. which WCIC, must iro:.
4sort4et, and which bore most on thel.ssue of the
qoestfoo, . without 'going into the yariety,oldetaila
,•frireiger to the•.main point into which. other Gentle.
men had 'entered so much at large.: There was
much in the nonduCt of the Adthinistration,' and in
the mode in which this ;business had been managed
from the commencemerit,, that ray afford room fOrit
great•variety of opinions
,without bearing at all on
the main question; but which may yet, if mtielt Cita
forced in deb ire, have go ejit influence on the' decision,
as to that question.. These points were ,:certainly..
much connected with the question, but they ought.
hat all to enter into the decisiou..uaton.ite_,N.:ither
could he see how. the dispatches 'in the:early part
of the Nrfgotiation-:could bc made. to eater. aiato
the consideration. The War originated in a remote
causer Which was the' unrenothieed Treaty of St.
Ildefonso, and in a proximite cause, which was, the
,
intelligence of the preparation of Armameote:atial,
the rehisal to explain. the objeds of these Arma.
ments. • lie conceived we hada right to deMand an
eXplanation of these ohjeda on several considerations;
First, our' situation' Was io be.etmsidered, involved
as we "were in War with France. Then, how far.'
our situation With Spain was changed by this War•
With France: Then, what engagements we hien.
tered into' with Spain, whether by agreement .or
coovention, for the name was iMmaterial, in order
to ascertain what we •gave to Spain, and on what
conditions. Then, whether tliese conditions•were
violated, and what coneequ'ettees, in
,point,of.right,,
resulted from such deviation. Afterwards, the: con.::
seqUences of the claims' of explanation, and the
ionuurat of the satisfaetion- given: Ile understood
lais Learned Friend to say, that the l'reary of St.
'Melon's° dill not Carry onp-the face of it a ground of
War it' it was not renounced (Dollar Laavreate3aid
..Aro); he was lAppy to find he was mistaken, and
that all were agreed as, to the offensive nature of
that Treaty-. According. to the .Law of Nations,
no Treaty was binding which aVoiald bind the Con.
traeting Party to an unjuat.Wor ; and the sense of
the Party was the only thing that could decide as
to the justice or injustice. In the Family Compa4
there walla right* of.exainination and inquirye.but
in that of St,
Ildefonio ttb auch right Was alto eety,
This, therefore, Was-Merely :an ofi'en4ve Tteaty,
et
,even accdrdin,.to the opinion of 'the ,Hon. Gentles
tn.in who had moved:the Amendment, and a cause
at
,War if it should not be: renounced, The. tingle
ofyrueeeding undefthese circumstances, was to put
it to the Government of Spaio, whether it would
renounce the,Treaty or not ; .and if it did 'not we
would have a just ground of\ War.' There was no
difr,trance whether the succours "were giVen in kind
or by a pecuniary compensation ; our right was
the same in b,th casea, and we were not bound
by any Agieeinent. between the Parties. Nations
were' not bound to exert their right, at all times,
or under all circtimstances. 'Considerationti of pru.
'dence or policy may intervene, This Country
Might -not consider, it politie to go to War 'With
‘.Spain a and, in' fact, the policy of evading a 'War
With Spain, when we. were engaged in a War with
France, was recognised, provided we could be sure
of at fair Neutrality-. It was remarked, however,
that. there was no instance, for near a century, of
Ot•War betwee6 this Coontty and France in which
"Spain did not some time or another take a parr....
Even in the American War, which began in 17.78,
and *0 the most Unlikely that could be imagineatto
engage the cooperation of Spain, as being totally
foreign to all the -principles of interest and policy,
she, was at length; induced, though [ter Mioisters at
first- declared how .contrary it was'to •ea..udeece, to
make herself a PartY. The Opposition of the
I. time arraigned •IVlinisters on thil oecasion,• for
their blindness in not foreseeing that Simin Would
ultiaately take 'pus with France, and for theit
miaconduel in not forcing her to an exultitm.
don, There was nOthiog that Administratirni
had been condemned for omitting that the present
Administration had not done. The, pre,rtent Treaty
.bettVeen France and Spain was more overbearing
than the ]!amtly taonip4t. Mirrisrers lead, there.
fore, taken a distinct line frorreabe beginning, and
had expressly decliredio‘Spain-,, that if she executed
-that Treaty she could have no Place with us.---
- Then it came-to thequeation of the precise Atnount
Of the
.Soccoarsa The- Ambassador • was hist ruaed
40 come.to no 'precise. detetrainatiOn on this point,
belt to take-itras•there %verb many instancea in Hie.
-tiny of Ambasuadora beirtig Mgt-rue-led to.. take the
Answers given torthem•on partieuiarpOints, ad ie_
fermium, for the consideration of his court, It
itTlieeeptoLwheer to7dierthintioningiveattboent.i.‘ealni:'ll3Wl24AZ
:ithiOerlidLisettv44ieiroctiii,hewciathllesdpaCliln'e 77151, (1,11.11 I:ti:oltu)lr:llSrAceii:taol
or of-giviog a decisive answer t f
in
baSaatior was bast-rained to demand .a -Copy of toe
tt:fatally
e ,t'i°oPs rdtt d iVaiEtgh'ere.onLatre"4tittribee,"
Secretrtry
Cupy should be refused, but an assurance given that

lit ,contained nothiog. hostile to,Englancl, he was. to
take that answer ad referendum, and to transnait-it
r for the consideration of his. Court.. , Ile never heard
Lord Egremont censured as ineapablt: or indecisive
for this conilut, or because ht. did-not give precise.
instruflions to the Arnbassader to bring the matter
to a decisive issue at once. Ile 'already stated, that
the substitution
,of_,a
.Peeuniary Contribution left ,
our right of War unitnpairA. Spain preferred that
mode of giving her succour, in the expedationthat
•the•amoitot would be reasonable.; and when France -,
4emanded a.+0200 000, the claim Was disputed, anti
its justice colculated by a cornPutation of the expense
of.the contingent. ''rite demand was, however, Pe7
'.:
rrig"lTtt'irerMillaiinne.li'ttitedsca'nr4ea.;'dTblitiirsnMi; cr.Ttle)itieedre"ljetahl'elu; '.
impresfed,'When heibformed lite
..Spanish Govern.
ment, that however a small andiemporary contrabu.
titan may he allowed in the hope of A tie w it'Litial' of
things, which Would give room for a real Neutrality.
~
in room of the tiomiria one that now existed, no Per"
manent or.onre!tsstollikecOntribution could he permit..
ted. Was this a ground fee oanceiving (air right aid"'
cloned, and for esfahliAing the most, dangeraus 00C•
trine th;tt had ever been heard, that if a Country 114414
tight of War, it skunk! ittimediarellgo td \V" to
avail itielf of that tight;
,and that, it was not at liberty- "
to take the.ehßnce.9l events for avoiding tlieWar 4°l
gether'? Mr. Fie re held out no hope to Spain but on the'
conditions which were.thought necessary to.insute '6l'
In his,Diapatch of die avh.june, he mer,ti,,ncti, that
Great Ilritaitt had even then the right of calla"'
sing hostilities.. The Learned Gen:l::rna It here went
thrupgh tie particulars Of the discussions, betwee°
Kr, 'Fier:: and I\l.' Cevallos,• in .which, the con.
ditiona of an explanatiVn of the terms of the 'Pea
with .France, the cessation of Armaments, sad the
prohibition of the sale of captured British shirs,k3
the:Spanish Port's, ere made the ilirnary c'''''•
tions of otir -forbearance. He allowed, that if thao
I conditions pro)enused Were acceded • to, it amounts
to an Agretnt. The ihartge,of the word to C -
..
ventton gave, rise to an argunient which heftliva "'t
think material. The thing was the same.whatev't
nem?. was givento it.. If a word of larger metil4
ing wPie't• after the :agreement, sabstituteil by ei
tiler ;`arty fur a word of more limited meani't
.tbat meaning' should be co.rre&ed.by a refetencelc
original terms. He then 'proceeded' t,) sbew tri'
potr) had not adhered to the conditions prqmed,))'
;us. Her did not contend tor any such thing as.l,"!`,;
served right of \Vat en break out at pleasure ; an; ', to
Hon,' Mover. of the Amendment wa's no't righr.,",
he, iinputect such an !Intention-. to Lord 1-I.lwl,:e'"''',:l
The le (ter of that 'Noble Lord to M. Frerc'
, A • i;A
Nbv. 2+, expressed ari intention of this kin''
,5,j
it gay:: tiine,. and if that rime should have c.1:4:,10•
iv ithOut altering the -eircumstanCe'it,' *notice `,":,,1e
be given that we could. forbear do longer ; "3;01:
sluauhrhave War or a fair Neutrality. 1 lel,inti
in the .necessity of upholding good faith and 5' ,
Ai-
of
. principles. He would not; fort the convevicricci e
any • particular case, shake these 'fouriiiations.;l,o,
this War was. not such as to render that n67l' n'ot.
The situation of Spain was such, that we coil ,die ' i
allow her an, unconditional 'NentrAiity. '1%,01
Armaments, aid those that had the ar&a"ndetcbe
hostility'amounted to the same thing. We '117.'„4,•. ,
' ourselves the jedgei of what''we Were to aIYP"j-wji
Lord Ilawkesbury never agreed that nothing
04
to to considered as hostile
...but what, S. Al'ai" ;ate,
aIIOW 'w.4s to be'employaagainst us. Xt.' tots!
therefore, required the cessation of all Arol3loc-jois ' ;‘
which
of ordinary' Neutrality, or, if ' asked, Israel-
e;1.1 •
readily be, granted ;'' but r.s .Spairr was delie",d'n,„l the '
Filowitrilliallitzenr;r:
eo4'''euovcareedrirad.,7lileillivar W:WI:Ikr1 ibee4Seitibi dan rlca;laearriSsegea said, ,3't. if
thatdn°' i!.
mand
it
I:.
.:4
(°
froM the. position of Spain; an Aierami°;"eYtilt bietic:,3;haf'
cause - whatsoever may be used against "" Ito,
Conditions yroposed by Mr. Frere were aceecletoo '
and some difference arising as to the 110'1°3' 1, l)f
of the Convention with France was. ailOrt ,f '
Mr. Frere for
,the standard of 'the recta-110t
the Armaments. If there 'was, a neces°„iatl'rill'
ar,ny s'ubsequent . Armament, Ile did not a-i that
Spain Was to be precluded frorn ' it, ,butroti.,
the object and amount of it should he 'O4
fied and explained to. us. If we liad' one',
,
right' We. gaine&nothing.hy the agreenlen.s
iliolt
would have a nAturAi right, by the I.4aw c.”t "'„'tt 04 •
to demand explanation-of any Armament I"'.,- dist"
give cause of alarm. When it, was considereu Pert
,!
there were five French '6lli.pe of tf;e line in !
4.l`lfibiit :1,
of Ferrol, any Armament there must he ,", flit 'a'
cause .of' jealousy. It had been insinuated, 'lnstifti
information of Admiral Cochrane was CO be reccatli'
' with•caution, From his knowledge of A101%14 aa
rant., he was sure that Gentleman world .Pt lid
statement but .what he Was sure Was tide; 'oo,
4fitramt 71d Cbilyt
theae "ct oa
it,ht
.ec Armamentsn..r exA r) iAny,
Te I.:et.) IA 7,tr'i!rili
,I,ciir:t
WAS allowed re exist and its design was taY9itc. le.
nor W*4 It aatisfaaorily explained even 1° ;i O!' 1
Itent. The Learned Gentleman then preeee'''‘'.,he Wl'
mine the direurnstaoCes of the detention elf s
Beyer, s
Otea.. which he thought fully .lustifra, aii
iti)iee'rr,,!
proceeding short of the bbstilities to villico , •rititi
Sation of the revired cundition4 gave tt4 „,,,titilii '
If the capture wti',lm,tant to be 'alssollincs it,,.Vc ill! f 1
lif it was only meant for a recaution, it ‘'oipel 1
W
Inure 50. It ati nonlleiiiiZ to be absolute, '''° iv6l``
satisfactofy explanations 'were. stihsequeodrtheic /
. 1314 t .4. ,
. the captures would hair::: . been re3itiFivt• ia:.4 I
'explanatirms were nut given ; -aittl an tlic zl',,re I) i
her M. Cevallos, in a contetenee Mr. filt,lo'll 1
' ,with hiM, contended, .;h 'at S• ' vis dc.h.tirc car'' t
no Anna aat ow v.. to ,11.
41ents 141 t such as get 4 l'c'''il v 11''''. 0 fi
~.lititain: - . ()label hostility Britain- had re' ,t,IP:r = v
ttill,i,jupti,,gininig, iw-eso
I:tvliLtidifi Sp.;.ii 9
,!vercet,olttoolii(!;,t, tt
tio,, t.,-) . • 0 -, ,4,1 . , '
r her but such as the Live of, '•?:0"°1" t l"'''e' 41
, Llo;4' o'
over all Avmautents that could be .01,...eatLt° 10„,ie'..., '
against cis. Mr., Freres Oil a prior LIAY' - fv",. L',.., ti
. iiistdil'on the cessation of. all Arinatner9f)firg.l,,',... (
!adios acceded ; and the point of tift'e ~,1 l'' t,;';, '' I,'
'antY one then iri'diSpnte Mr. -Frere;.agt- .`eair,i ''. el
.. , - l,,
`crate ofH•the-- Convention with Fra°c°' smi:ll,i,- ."
cerallos, in -afteriearls asserting th", jiail
booriii to .desict 'Otii'', "from Arniaaientit 2c1'it,1.3,' ;::. "I
i Alt!, COlitt Aditted his engagement, a"' 41i0o, ':,j ' /s'
"I tigiautt3. p
Oart, iiropposition, to his deehtt ot poll
Flute clip ot catch eagerly at deb4tsi