The Sun.
London, England, 1802-05-18 00:00:00

SINKING FUND.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day ott the sithjed of the Sinking-
Fund.

The Order being read, and the House having
resolved itself into a Comthittee of the whole House
accordingly,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that as he understood Gentlemen who were
desirous of making observations on the Resolutions
which he had to submit to the Committee, meant
to postpone them until a Bill should be brought in,
if it should he the pleasure of the House that the Bill
should be brought in ;,--41e shoUld now, therefore,
not enter into the particulars on this subject.---He
had. already stated to the House, that he believed,
the ,tendency of these Resolutions was to give
effed to the Measure which had received the ge-
neral approbation of the House, and of the Coun-
try ; and, if it should he the pleasure of the House
to give leave to bring in the Bill, he shOuld spew
the opinion he had of the efficacy of the At for the
reduCt ion of the National Debt, by endeavouring to
amend that AEI, and to'render it mere effedual for
the purpose of extinguishing the National Debt.—
Under these circumstances, he should content him.
self with moving Resolutions, the general heads of
which he had stated on a former day, .
The Resolutions being about to be read,
Mr. BOY D entered into several calculations upon
the subjed, and observed, that by the mode now
proposed an advantage would be gained over the
old Sinking Fund of its,o0o;000l.
Mr. PITT said, that the House would always be
happy to hear the observations of a Gentleman so
well qualified to forth an opinion upon subjeas of
this kind as the Hon. pentleman was who spoke
last. It appeared, however, to him, that the Hon.
Gentleman had in some degree undervalued the
advantages that would fie derived from the plan
now proposed, and perhaps a, judgment might be
formed upon the question by a less difficult process
of calculation than that which the Hon. Gentleman
had adopted. The Hon. Gentleman had stated,
that the advAntage that would be gained by•'adopt-
ing the present plan, would be i t 5,000,0001., but
upon the best consideration he- could give-the sub-,
jed, he was inclined to think it would be much
nearer to i;oi000,000,' • _ - •.

Mr. BOY D explained.
Mr. TIERNEY said, he could have wised
the subjea had-been referred to a Committee above
stairs, in order that calculations might. -have'been
made in different points. of view. What:lie felt
was the difference which the plan now :proposed
would make for the present; it appeared to him,
that if the country was soon placed in 'a state.of
war, difficulties would arise ; but that if we con-
tinued in a state of peace for forty-five years, -then
the plan proposed would be productive of much
greater advantages than the former plan. He wished
calculations might be made with different views of
the subjeft, in order that. they might be sure they
were accurate. .

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
he was fully aware the Calculations now upon the
Table of the House Could not be adopted in all the
views which seemed to he entertained upon them.
Whit the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down,
had said, was of great importance,
;which was, the
necessity of considering the operation• of this Sys-
tem at different intervals and. stages of was
true the operation would he apparently to •the dis-
advantage of the Public at first, that. was to say,
so much could not be teeeivedfor the extinuion of
the' Debt, ar►d the advantage could not be obtained
up to a given time ; and on which, he apprehended,
difference of ovinion might be entertained in the

Committee on the Bill but. he thought, that the
objedions would he of such Sort, a to 'be consider-
ably out-weighed by: the utility of the Measure.
The Hon. Gentleman who began the discussion of
this subjeft to-day, stated with great clearness, the
grounds on which he was disposed to approve of the
measure.—He said, the amount of the immediate
saving, that which
,must otherwise be levied by
Taxes, was 970,0001. including the Sinking Fund
of one per cent, by funding Exchequer
was very much to be Wished that the benefit of that'
system could -be takeur so as to apply it to :Ale):
whole of the financial operations of this Session;
but the Aft of 1792, required that the proceeding
should take place 'at an early period, in 'consequence
of which that advantage was barred.—He meant'
the rule of the One"per Cent, Fund.:This would
appear on reference •to the A& of Parliament he
alluded to.—The Hon.-Gentleman Said,'-that this
measure would have the effeEt of withholding,'
from the Sinking Fund the short. Annuities at some_
thing more "than zoo,o0o1; He could not think
he understood the Hon. Gentleman' accurately on
this point. He must be 'aware that the. short,
Annuities in i BoS would be 51 2,0001. which form-
ed a part of that which would be withheld from the
old Sinking Fund, and therefore the advantage in
the first instance, of 8700001. was withheld frinn
the Fund created in the present year, and which
must have been raised under the provision in 1792.
Then, at the preserg moment, to the amount of
870;0001. the Public was relieved of the necessity
of raising Taxes, and that was an immediate'advan-
rage, and by the old Sinking Fund that .would not
be afforded until six years had elapsed, so that we
could not have,. iniess tithe without this system,
the advantage to the subjeft which would be now
immediately enjoyed. By.' this system in 1808,
572,.0001. more would be applicable to the relief of
the Subjed.. He perceived he was getting into the
subjeft farther than he intended, which he should
abstain from at present, as it was the general wish
to defer the discussion of it to a future day, when
there would be a full-opportunity of considering the
whole of the subjeft, and when he should, take the
liberty of sheaving the advantages which would
arise from the adoption of the measure ; of the
ample superiority of them over the disadvantages
to which the Hon. Gentleman had adverted.
Mr. PITT said, that the view of the subjeft
taken by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last but
one, was so interesting, that he begged to say a few,
wcirds upon ir, not with a View of entering, at pre,
sent, into the 'discussion of the subjeft, but in order
that the grounds upon which it was to he consider-
ed-, might be fully understood. It must naturally
occur to every Gentleman who had turned his mind,
to the consideration of 'this subjeft, even after he
was satisfied by the calculations whiCh had been
made, that the ultimate objed of the Sinking Fund
would be accelerated by the adoption of the present,
instead of adheting to the former plan ; it must na-
turally occur, he said, to every Gentleman, to in-
quire, whether, during the interval, any 'change;
effeded by this new plan, in its progress, would
leave the Country less able to meet any new con„
test that might happen, than it would -have
been if this plan had never been
.adopted. This
certainly; was one of 'the most important parts of
the whole subjel, and if he were not per-
fedly convinced that the effeet of. it would be
not only not to place the country in'a worse situa_
tion during its progress, but even to put it in a
better one, he certainly should not be so strong an
advocate for the measure as he was. It Was true,
that for a certain period there would be a less. pot..
Lion of the debt paid off than. there would have
been by the former plan, though the whole of the
debt would be sooner discharged. The point of
time when the disadvantages of the present plan
would be the greatest, would be, when there
was the greatest quantity of stock in the mar-
ket, which would have been redeemed by the
operation of the old Sinking Fund ; and that period,
he supposed, from a rough calculation, would be
in about 14. or is years time. At' tlrat period,
when the disadvantage against the Public would be
at the greatest,- there would be about 15,600,000
more stock in the market than by the old plan Lilac
would have been ; but every year before that period
the disadvantage would not be so great, and every
'year afterwards it must necessarily decrease. Tak-
ing then this objeetion at the,utmost, he wished to
ask every Gentleman to consider, whether in the
event of a war, two, three; seven, ten, or twelve
years hence, it would, riot be advantageous to the
country to borrow, even with a greater capital by
fifteen millions (taking it at the most Unfavourable
period), having at. the same time an undisposed re-
venue of nine hundred thousand pounds a year to raise
the Loan with ? This question he would readily leave
to the decision of the Hon. Gentleman behind him,.,
(Mr,. BoYn.) It certainly. was desirable that upon
a subject, the calculation upon which Gentlemen,

were to decide, should come before' them in the

molt authentic shape, but as to the point to which
he had. just alluded, it was so simple, that eyeiT
Gentleman would calculate for himself. It was,
however, worth while for his Right Hon. Friend
to consider whether; as some thrie necessarily must
elapse before the Bill came into a ComMittee,
culations upon this part 'of the subject could not be
furnished to Gentlemen, as had been done upon the
other part of the measure. It might remove a great
deal of difhculty, and would open a new view of the
advantages that would result from this measure.
The Sinking Fund, by the present plan, would
.be perfedly consistent with the original regula.
tion respecting that Fund ; all the pledges of
the Pul4ic Faith would be preserved, and the
measure would be more conducive to its ob-

jet-I,: Parliament would be able, by these meanson
make a provision in case of any unforeseen exigency
of the times.;, it would be enabled to assist the sub-

jet}, if, unfortunately, at awy time, the pressure of,
Taxes pressed urgently for. relief; or, lastly,. it
might be made the foundation of some system,_ that,•
under a new charader, might afford the means of
relieving the Public in time of Peace, and offurnio-
- new resources in time of. War. lie would not

enter further into the subject at piesent ; he merely
threw out this as a subject which Gentlemen might
turn their attention to, as he might probably sub-
mit some further observations upon it during the
figure discussions upon this subjed.

• ... .
i the
Mr. TIERNEY said, he underseoed that 1,3• the
now proposed; the Fund would be less .proo!urci:
consistent With the
tive than under the old plan for a certain peri9.6
after which it would accumulate very rapidly. He
did not wish to express any opinion upon the Int s
sure at present, but he doubted how, far it 9.
for the payment of which the whole of the Income
0 the Income Tax.
lax was Pledged, could be transferred to another
Fund, public faith that the 56,000,00
Air p
/2
~ - ITT . n.
upon
'lr tleman would be-an-;arivoCate for the continuant
said, he-could not suppose the Ho
aware Out no particular Fund was ,apropriat
to the
the Income 'Pax:
The Hon: Gentleman trusted
payment of an particular part of the
public Debt, and that no specific 56,00d,000l• wat:
charged ,
Ille Only questiort
was, whether
4 susOent provision had been made
in. the room of the pledge raker' away ; he thought
t
+ oe' had pp
~ ifid he arelieUded it would not be CO.n-
ended that public faith was boundlo continue the
.Income Tax. • .

Mr, TIERNEY explained.
•Pi'vv t; further - - •
" -y s-ort conversation ensuedbetivev
'....r. WILBERFoRCE, Mr. VANsITTRI`) all d Mr.
150,y D.
rbe -C H ANC ELLO R of :the EXCHEQUEIe
Said, 'he 'would give- direffions to have calculations
made with different views orthe subjeei,
to the idea of ;he Gentleman (Mr. Ti EXP:EI')
Which would be laid'fablein few 1•1*
...,,._ on the a L.l
~,,,
rlie Resolutions 'of the Cii Asc EL T. OR Of O'C -DX'
-CHEQUER
..to
re-
sumed, the Report %vas...ordered to be received
mortiOw.
Mr. CORKY - . 111°C
gave notice of his intention to ,
vs
the business of Ireland in the-ICOmmittee of V'' a'
and Means on Friday next. '. . -' ' i Bid
The Committee on the ..Cotton Apprent-ce
according

was deferred till to-Morrow.
Mr. EL xOT gave notice of his intention to tOvrle
the Navy Estimates in the Committee of sopPlY

Friday-h-ext.
•
The House_ in a Committee of Supply- Caine to
vi'3"ci.
to the Subaltern Officers of the Militia ill l'el'oin:"
The Report was ordered to be received to-Orr-
and the Committee. to sit again on WednesdaY'
The 'House in a Committee to-consider of .cert3o,.
.-
Ads relative to' -Sugar Exported, Wile- w a Resd,
lution to suspend the Duties on fine Sugar Elcr 'rte
for a time to be limited.—Report ro-inorroiv-
) The Coliimittee on' the Franking Bill was r
-poried till to-morrow.
The Post-Office Bill, the Post Horse Duty
14';'"11,
ing Bill, and the Irish•lnilemnity Bill, were read
third.time and passed.
Tlie
l
aCsseotmoosi
tilld Committee
oetadio_tnmti'lgi(l)trhotroeoilv.:(l)lTrserh.
olrsv.islh Ee: s
Linen "el Ma f 61° e
The
The CoCommitteepaned till Wednesday. •
• Adjourned at seven o'clock, till to-mars:l.
was
deferred
of
Ways
a,
o Mew's
la ison e
oiilt