The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-22 00:00:00

IMPERIALPARLIAMENT

THIS DAY, THURSDAY, AUG. 22.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took his chair at twenty-five rninut( •
past twelve o'clock.
CIVIL LIST CHARGES BILL.

.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP the order of the
day for receiving the report of the Committee on the Civil
List charges was read, and Mr. C. Wood brought up the
report.
Mr. COBBETT took this opportunity of asking his
Nlsjesty's Ministers whether there had been auy vote of
money for the Poor Law Commissioners salaries ?
Mr. SPRING RICE answered in the negative; the
Commissioners received no salaries, and their expenses
were defrayed in the usual way, and the persons they
employed in the country merely received what they ex-
pended out of their own pockets,
The Civil List Charges Bill was then ordered to be
engrossed, and to be read a third time to-morrow.
TURNPIKE ROADS BILL.
The report of the Committee on the Turnpike Roads
Accounts Bill was brought up, and the Bill ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
CHANCERY OFFICES REGULATION BILL.
The Chancery Offices Regulation Bill, on the motion
of Mr. S RICE was read a third time, the question that
it pass being reserved uutil to-morrow.
SESSIONAL ADDRESSES.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the House re-
solved itself into Committee on the Sessional Addresses,
Mr. C. Wood in the Chaif.
Lord ALTHORP said he had to move two resolutions,
to which he had no doubt the Committee would unani-
mously agree, more especially to the first, which was in
favour of the gentleman who had so ably acted as the
Chairman of the Committee.—(Cheers.) He begged to
move an address to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty
would he pleased to direct that there be issued a snm of
1,200/ to Ralph Bernal, Esq., for his services as Chair-
man of the Committees of the House during the present
session, assuring his Majesty that this House would make
good the same.
The resolution was agreed to, as was another, praying
his Majesty to direct that there he issued to the Speaker's
Secretary for his services during the present session, such
a sum of money as together with the fees on private Bills,
should make up the sum of 400/.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be
rec-ived to morrow.

On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the land tax
Commissioner, names' 8,1 l was read a
_third time and
passed.
Mr. C. WOOD brought up the report of the amend-
ments to the Juries (Ireland) Bill which were agreed to,
and the Bill ordered to he read a third time to-morrow.
APPROPRIATION CLAUSE.

Mr. S. RICE moved that it be an in.truction to the
Committee on the Consolidated Fund Bill that the Corn-
mittee have power to receive a clause of appropriation.—
Agreed to.
The House then resolved itself into Committee on the
Consolidated Fund Bill.

Sir J. GRAHAM rose to move an amendment to the
Act relative to the naval service. By the terms of the
Appropriation Act, as it at present stood, all services
performed within the year should be paid within that
period. Now it often happened that sailors who were on
a foreign station could not be pail within the year, and
in such cases the money was paid into the Bank, which
acted as a complete dead weight upon the country. There
was at the present moment no less than a million of money
lying idle in that way. What, therefore, be proposed by the
amendment was that so much only as had been demanded
should be granted, and the recovery should be considered
at a future opportunity. The amendment only went to
alter the phraseology of the Act to meet that contingency.
The amendment was agreed to without opposition.
The Bill as amended was reported to the House, and
ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
On the motion for the third reading of the Tea Duties
Bill,

Mr. EWART wished to know whether any arrange-
ment had been made with respect to the tea on hand ; and
also whether any arrangement bad been made with re
spect to the time ships would be allowed to sail from this
country to Canton ?
Mr. SPRING RICE said that it was esential that the
stock of tea on hand should be such as would promote
not only the interest of the private trader, but the con-
sumer also, and se far from considering that there was
any conflicting or opposite interests between the consumer,
the Government, and the East India Company, all their
interests were bound together. What was desirable was
to reduce the present stock of tea in such a manner as to
give free scope to the private trader, hut, in his opinion,
it would not be desirable to reduce it actually to zero. It

was not for the interest of the East India Company, that
there should he an accumulation of tea left in their pos-

session, as that would have the eEect of distressing the
private trader, and exposing him to a competition he
did not calculate upon.—(Hear, hear, hear.) With
respect to the quarterly sales, it was not intended
that any deviation should take place from the usual course
during the next three of them ; but that they should be
lest to the discretion of the company. After these three
sales had taken place, the quantity to be sold wouli have
to be determined by the Board of Controul, which would
so govern them that a gradual increase would take place
in the quantity, whilst the parties interested would be
made acquainted with the maximum amount ; so that the
state of the market would be always fsirly known.
Mr. CRAWFORD said he would not have ventured to
have addressed the House at so early a period, if he had
nut been applied to by traders resident i❑ the city of
London, who were deeply interested in the tea trade.
The application made to him was by a highly respectable
Conami tee of traders, who complained that they had not
received any communication of the intended details, until
after they had been publicly promulgated by his Majesty's
Ministers. These gentlemen, and the trade generally,
objected to the classification adopted by the Government,
as being opposed to the interests of the importers
and the consumere.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that
his Majesty's Ministers should afford an opportunity for an
early reconsideration of the subject, and give time for such
communications with the trade as would enable a better
classification to be made. The gentlemen who had applied
to him had informed him that there were eight descriptions
of tea, which wou'd come properly under the second cla.s,
and be charged at a duly of 2s. 2,1. ; but which, as they
were not now enumerated in that class, would have
to pay a rimy of 3s. per pound. Besides this,
the East India Company was already exempt from thz
payment of auction duty, for their teas were disposed of by
public sale, and it would be only just that the ether im-
porters of tea be placed upou the some footing. He wished
to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, whether, supposing
the present Bill to he passed, there would be any objection
to an early reconsideration of the subject in the next
session, that the anomalies complained of might be then
amended ?

Mr. S. RICE said that the Hon. Gentleman and the
House would be aware that the tea trade in some respects
differed from every other; and that as the Government
was, as it were, in actual contact with the parties inter-
estcid, twenty four hours need not have elapsed, after the
resolutions were promulgated, before the trade might have
communicated with the Government thereon. But from
the passing of the resolutions, up to that moment, not any
communication had been made on the subject, excepting
that of the Hon. Gentleman, who would no doubt have
brought it under the notice of Government had he before
appeared in his place in that House, and to whom he now
begged leave to offer his congratulations.—(Hear, hear.)
He would put it to that Hen. Member whether it would
oot be pregnant with inconvenience to give any pledge of
such a nature as that he had asked ? Such a de-
claration would naturally paralyze the trade, and
produce the most serious inconvenience to all parties.
It would be open to the Hon. Member, or to any other
Member of the House, to bring the subject again before
Parliament in the next session ; but no pledge could be
consistently asked or given, that a Bill to be passed in the
month of August should be considered in the February
following. The House should remember, that in all the
alterations of duty made, reductions had taken place. In
the first class it had been reduced from 96 per cent
to 81 ; in the second class from 100 to 944 ; and in the
third class from 100 to 81. And these classes had been
determined after communicati ins with several bankers, not
one of whom had differed in opinion with the others. If
the Hon. Gentleman thought an ad valorem duty would
have been preferable, he (Mr. Spring Rice) wouid
say that such a mode of ascertaining the duty cool
not have been practised at the out-ports, when
Auction sales would not be held under the same security
as in the Port of London ; and givng it an ad valorem for
a rated duty, which should be alike on all descriptions of
tea, would only have tended to increase the price of infe-
rior teas, or such as were consumed chiefly by the lower
orders. The best inquiries which could be made had
aereed so well with the experiments made at the Board
of Control, as to leave no doubt of the certainty of collect-
ing the duty tinder the classification th•it had been made.
Mr. HUNIE said there was certainly some difficulty in
arriving at a precise classification, but be thought the
proposed measure better than continuing to change an ad
valorem duty,

Mr. YOUNG whited to la two que+tiong of Ms bk.
jes,y's Ministers, upon a subject which was viewed in a
very important light by the mercantile interest. Oa a
former occasion, in answer to a question, the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Control,
stated to the House that Government had recommended
to the East India Company not to send out any of their
ships to China during the present season, and that it
was not then determined by the Company whe-
ther they would accede to that recommendation.—
(Hear.) He wished now to ask i f the Company had
come to any determination upon that point, and if they
had, whether Government bad it in contemplation to
make any arrangement with the Company by which pri-
vate ships might be allowed to he sent nut ; at present
the trade was wholly suspended, for though the Com-
pany might not send ships out, private traders could not
until the present charter expired, to which period the
time was now very limited. The other question was
whether Government bad determined from what parts of
the kingdom the trade to China was to be allowed to be
carried on. It was understood that the trade was only to
be allowed in certain ports, and it was desirable that those
ports should he known.
Mr. S. RICE said, with respect to the first question,
he was unable to give any specific answer ; as to the other,
he could merely refer the Hon. Member to the Bill which
had been lately in the House.
Mr. GORDON said it was impossible that any private
ships could be dispatched to China prior to next April
without permission of the Company, but he had no reason
to believe that that permission would be refused.
Mr. EWART and Mr. HUME condemned the conduct
of Government in not allowing private vessels to proceed
as early as possible, and said the limitation would be
productive of an injury to the shipping interest.
Lord ALTHORP thought the disadvantage to the
shipping interest could not be very great by the delay,
because of the quantity of tea now in the Company's stock.
Mr. HUME considered that the change which was n w
to take place should take place so gradually, that the
Chinese themselves should not know that a change bad
been effected

Mr. HARVEY said it appeared to him there had been
too much partiality shown to the .higher classes in the
reduction of the duty that was to take place.
After a few observations from Mr. PRYME, Mr.
CRAWFORD, and Mr. J. TERREY, the Bill was read a
third time and passA.

Colonel EVANS gave notice that be would on Satur-
day ask a question relative to our foreign policy in the
East.
CHANCERY-OFFICE BILL.

The SOLICITOR G e'NERAL in moving the third
reading of the Chancery office Bill, said he would shortly
state the effects to be produced by the Bill,
which he had not done on a former stage o'
the Bill from his anxiety not to interrupt im-
portant Public Bu iness. The Bill went to abolish thir-
teen offices which had long existed, and which were nearly
sinecures; in others the salaries were greatly reduced. The
old system upon which these offices were conducted was this
—there was the chief sinecurist who did nothing ; h.
appointed a deputy, who was allowed a larger salary than
what ought to have been allowed to the office altogether.
—(Hear.) The first office was that of the Clerk of the
Hanaper, who received 2,800/. a year, and his deputy
350/. The duties were now to be done for 200/., being a
saving of 2,990/.—(Hear, hear.) The next was the
Clerk of the Crown, who had 11,0001., and his deputy
I,oool.—the allowance was now to be 500/. for
altogether, being a saving of 11,400/. There was an
office in Chancery, called the Chaff Wax, who was
allowed 1,300/., and his deputy 400/. ; that office was ti
be now abolished, but as there was a necessary expendi-
ture for wax, 501. a year was to be allowed for the pur
chase of the wax.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Learned
Gentleman then enumerated the whole of the offices, and
stated, that on that branch alone there was to be a
saving of 21,670/.—(Cheers)—which was to be disposed
of in the following manner, 9,000/. to the Suitor.,
they were to be relieved from fees to that amount ; 2,834/.
were to be paid to the Suitors Fund, and he congratulated '
the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the fact that 9,736/
would be paid to the account of the Consolidated Fund.
Now it was to be remembered that all these offices were
in the gift of the Chancellor, and former Chancellor.
had given them to their relatives. That they
had even been made the subject of marriage settlements.
Two of the offices were held by the brother of the Lord
Chancellor, which were to be abolished instantly.—
(Cheers.) The others were to be abolished as they felt
in. The next branch of the Bill applied to the Masters,
who upon an average received 3,900/. a year front fees, &c.
they were now to be paid a fixed sum of 2,500/. a year
each, and as there were ten of them the saving would h.
14,0001. per annum. The chief clerk of the Master"
now received 1,3001. a year in gratuities—those
gratuities were charged in the Bill of costs,
and the Bill was taxed by the clerk him
self, a plan open to very great abuse. Tate Bros-
saving, in the year, from both these branches, would be
56,720/. The masters salaries were to be paid from the
suitors fund. Orders were to be entirely abolished; peti-
tions and affidavits, which formerly were required by the
Lord Chancellor, were to be sent before the Master. The
great complaint hitherto had been of the delay in the
Master's Offico. The great object in view was to make
the Masters efficient officers of the Court. The present
Masters were most respectable, honourable, and learned
men ; hut former Lord Chancellors, considering them
private personal appointments had appointed to those high
and important judicial situations, persons whom they dared
not have recommended, had the appointment been in the
King. It was now, therefore, proposed to seat those
appointments in the King. They were now to be
made by his Majesty on the responsibility of the King's
Government. No doubt the King might act on the re-
commendation of the Lord Chancellor for the time being;
but that officer with all she cabinet would be held reepon-

Bible for every appointment.—(Hear, hear.) By this Bill
there were to be particular returns m tde by the Masters
in Chancery to the Lord Chancellor of the number of hour.
they have attended their offices, and the general state of
causes and other matters in the office, from time to time, so
that there would be ample opportunity of ascertaining
whether those holding such important judicial situations
had properly discharged thcir official functions. But there
were still further improvements. When the Bill

had been first introduced in the other House of Parlia-
ment, it went still further; but the present Lord Chan
ceilor had done ail that was in his power to do.—(Cheers.)
There were some parts of the Bill which he had been
obliged to drop ; but he (the Solicitor-General) h ped
that next session the public would yet hive the benefit of
them. Much, however, had been effected by the present
Lord Chancellor—(Cheers)—and he (the Solicitor-Gene-
ral) trusted the public would appreciate his conduct in the
matter, for he had met with many difficulties, and award
him his due meed of approbation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LYNCH congratulated the House on the great
and important improvements which had been eff,eted ;
hut he took them only as an instalment of what was dm,
for much yet remained to be done.—(Hear, hear.) H.-
thought it would be a great deal better that the master,
and clerks should be paid partly by graduated fees, and
partly by salary, as they made their reports and signed
their certificates. He intended to propose two amend-
ments—one to the effect that the Lords of the Treasury,
to whom the matter was to be referred, to consider what
compensation should be given to those whose offices were
to be abolished, should make their report within six
calender months after the passing of the Act ; and the other
that the commissioners in their investigations should have

the power to determine whether, from the nature of cer-
tain offices, or the mode of accession thereto, any condi.
tiams could properly be imposed as to non-cumpensation.
It was well known that there were certain offices which
were filled in gradation, by the clerk, who paid on entry
1,000/., and from time immemorial they had the
right, as higher offices fell vacant, to succeed to the
Registrars' Offic,s, and Masters in the Vote Office.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY could not, on the present occa-
sion, withhold the expression of his most sincere theogh
humble thanks for the alterations which had been made
by this Bill in the Chancery offices. He congratulated
the House the more on the great and substantial improve.
ments which had been eff cted, inasmuch as it was im-
possible for them to conceive the great difficulties with
which those who had done so much had been surrounded.
although he highly appreciated the measure in a financial
point of view, he trusted that it was only subordinate to
great improvements that were still to take place, and was
to be looked upon only as an earnest on the port of that
distinguished individual who held the highest office in the
law, to make this court one which he proved in reality,
and no, in name, a Court of Equity.—(Hear.)
Mr. SINCLAIR thought the measure reflected the
highest honour upon the Lord Chancellor. He had ac-
complished that which no other man had attempted to
achieve.

—Mr. TOOKE gave his most unqualified approbation to
therneasure. The benefit the suitors would derive from it
would be not only a saving of the expense, but great exile•
dition in the proct edin-zs of the court. No clime
give more satisfaction to the public than that which m ide
it inip..!rative upon the masters to give a statement
of every cause before them, and the precise state in which
it then was.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL had no objection to the
amendment proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member

opposite (Mr. Lyr.d.). It seamed to Lim annaoessiry ;
but out of deference to his Learned Friend, he st,ouiLl not
object to it.
Mr. SINCLAIR observed that by the Bill the maters
were still to be allowed 2,5001. a year, that was more than
was given to any of the judges of the Court of S,ssion.
in Scotland, whole duties were most laborious. He was
in hopes that something would have been done to increase
the salaries of those deserving individuals after the pledge
that had been given by his Majesty's Government.
Lord ALTHORP said, that so far from any pledge
being given on the subject, he believed all the Members
fif the Government voted against the increase of the sala-
ries of tlie Scotch Judges.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Mr. MURRAY postponed the further consideration of
the Report on the Procurator's Fiscil (Scotland) Bill.
TITHES STAY OF SUITS BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BLAMIRE, the House resolved
its-lf into a Committee on the Tithes Stay of Suits Bill,
Mr. PETRE in the chair.

Mr. BLAMIRE stated that his principal object, in
bringing forward the present measure, was to relief
Ministers from that odium under which they laboured
on this subject. He was encouraged to hope that a
majority of the House would go with him in carrying the
measure, and he should throw himself upon the courtesy
of Hon. Members to assist him in the details.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS was understood to recommend
the postponement of the Committee.
Mr. IILAMIRE said it was desirable the discussion
on the clauses should go on in Committee, in order that
the Bill might pass in the present session. If it went
through Committee that day, the Bill might be printed at
night, and the sense of the House taken on the report.
Mr. AGLIONBY made some comments on verbal
amendments proposed by the Honourable Member
(Mr. Blamire) on the first clause; and instanced
the case of a parish, in which, before the opera-
tion of Lord Tenterden's Act, the utmost harmony pre-
vailed between the pastor and the parishioners, and now
the Church was literally abandoned.
Mr. LYNCH approved of the amendments proposed
by the Hon. Member, who had introduced the Bill; he
thought they would go on with the Bill, to prevent evil
without doing injustice.
On the question that the verbal amendments proposed
should i stand part of the clause.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said he thought the Bill would
be injurious in its application, and unjustly affecting the
right of property. It would be impossible for any plain-
tiff, whether he proceeded in a court of law or in a
court of equi'y, to establish a tithe which for years
hid been dormant, to succeed when it became an issue
b!fore a jury. The weight of prejudice he would have to
c •nfiict with would be such as to snake it necessary for
hina to show not merely the legality, but the righteousness
of tie demand, before he could proceed. It they were to
legislate upon it, why not legislate in the most efficient
.nanner ?—(Hear, hear.) Why not at once suspend
ill the proceedings that had taken place within
a given period to the next session of Parliament. He
ook it for granted the present Bill was the herald of good
things to come, and that it was intended these
evils should be put a stop to by some wholesome
legislation which would at once extinguish all the causes.
It that were so, why not at once suspend all proceeding?)
under writs which had been issu-d, he would say within
the last two months? He really thought the present measure
was one, when it came to be rifiected upon, which was
fraught with danger and difficulty. In his opinion,
'idles formed a species of property which were indis-
putably as much to be guarded by all the protec-
tion that could be thrown around property of any
other description. If they did not belong to the
Church, they did not belong to the landlord, but they
were a property which he was sorry to see a disposition in
that House to fritter away ; and he was extremely
sorry to see landholders !endeavouring to excite
those feelings, and produce those results which
(LEFT SPEAKING AT THREE O'CLOCK.)
(We shall give the cond•lu.ion in e C .eond Edition.)

FASHIONABLE IN I'v,LLLGENCE.