The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-03 00:00:00

PRIVY COUNCIL.

Sir R. PEEL begged to ask the Hon. Metpber for Old-
!' am when he meant to bring forward his motion for an
address to his Majesty to expel him from the Privy Coun-
cil, or was it only a flash in the pan ?
Mr. COBBETT said the motion was to have come on
last Tuesday, but the late hour to which the debate ran
prevented it, and he now gave a fresh notice for the 13th
of this month. The Right Hon. Baronet could not be
afraid of its being a flash in the pan.—(A laugh.)
Sir R. PEEL said the 13th May was as order day,
and the notice could not then come on. He had a right
to know when the motion really came on.
Mr. COBBETT said he would bring it on any day the
Right Hon. Baronet himself might fix.--(Laughter.)
POOR LAWS (IRELAND).
Mr. RICHARDS then rose, to bring forward his mo-
tion for establishing poor laws in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
There might be some Hon. Gentlemen who would think
his Majesty's Ministers were the most proper per-
sons to bring forward the question of poor laws
in Ireland ; but he hoped he should not be considered
trespassing on their attention while he stated that he had
applied to the Noble Lord opposite to know if the Go-
vernment had any intention of bringing forward such a
measure, and he was replied to in the negative;
but being impressed with a deep sense of the importance
of this question to the best interests of the United
Kingdom, and relying on the indulgence of the
House, he determined not to flinch from the discharge
of so important a duty. ..Before he went into the
consideration of the expediency or the necessity
of making some provision for the poor of Ireland, he
would ask the House if there was any difference amongst
Hon. Gentlemen as to the state of Ireland ?—(Hear, hear,
from Mr. O'Connell.) It had been alleged by the late
Right Hon. Chief Secretary for Ireland, that many parts
of that country were the scenes of outrage, violence, and
bloodshed—that murder was perpetrated on system—that
property and life were not secure—that the old laws were
not sufficient for the protection of the public peace, and
that new ones must be enacted for that purpose. With
the narmission of the House, he would read an extract
from the report of the Select Committee appointed in
1830, to take into consideration the state of the poorer
classes in Ireland, and the best means of improving their
condition. The passage was as follows :—" Your Com-
mittee have felt it their duty to make the most minute and
laborious inquiry into the actual state and condition of
the Irish poor, considered in all points of view, moral,
political, physical, and economical. Although they are
fully aware that for a close and accurate investigation of
these several subjects, embracing as they do the entire
state of Ireland, it will be necessary to examine accurately
the details of the evidence, they still feel it their duty to
lay the results before the House in a more condensed and
accessible shape. They regret to be obliged to state that
a very considerable proportion of the population is con-
sidered to be out of employment. The number is esti-
mated diffe,ently, and by Mr. Smith is supposed to be as
much as one-fifth of the entire population. By Mr. Ensor it
is carried still further, and is calculated to amount to
one-fourth. From this want of demand for labour, ne-
cessarily ensues very severe distress among the labour-
ing classes. This, combined with the consequences of an
altered system of managing land, is stated to produce
misery and suffering which no language can possibly de-
scribe, and which it is necessary to witness in order fully
to estimate.' This distress is stated to exist in its
greatest severity in the suburbs of cities and towns. Dr.
Doyle describes the condition of this suffering class in the
strongest and most impressive manner. He states a ease
of some of the ejected tenantry, who, seeking a refuge in
the towns, ' after their little capital is expended, become
dependent upon charity. They next give up their house,
and are obliged to take, not a room, but what they call a
corner. Four of these wretched families are sometimes
accommodated in one small apartment of a cabin, and
three in another. I have not myself seen so many as
seven families in one of these cabins, but I have been as-
sured by one of the officiating clergymen that there are
many instances of it. Their beds are merely a little
straw spread at night on the floor, and by day they are
wrapped up or covered with a quilt, or with a blanket.
In these abodes of misery disease is often produced by
extreme want ; disease wastes the people, for they have no
food or comforts to restore them; they die in a little
time.' " In proportion as the remedy for these evils ap-
peared to be the introduction into Ireland of a sys-
tem of poor laws, it became impossible not to
advert to what bad taken place in England on that
subject. The alleged evil effects which had resulted from
their introduction into England, would be urged against
their adoption in Ireland. He perfectly agreed with those
who were of opinion that it was as much an English ques-
tion as an Irish question.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In
many of the parishes of the metropolis, the amount of
relief given to Irish paupers almost exceeded belief.—
(Hear.) But that was not the only evil; the valeta of
labour was broken by them. Great numbers of the
middle class also, that class in which resided the strength
of the country, were ground down by the rates which it
was necessary to impose, in order to relieve the English
poor and the Irish poor who flooded this country and
drove the English labourer out of employment. Was this
longer to be endured ? Was England, in spite of her in-
dustry, her ingenuity, and her enterprise, to be thus im-
poverished, degraded, and ultimately destroyed ? He could
not believe it. He appealed to that House inthe name of the
English labourer for succour and for justice.—(Hear.)
Much had been said of late in that House regarding the
Irish landlords. Their motives had been greatly im-
pugned, and their conduct loudly censured. For his own
pert, he did not think that English landlords, under some
circumstances, were any better than Irish ones. Let
them look, however, to the state of society in the two
countries. Comparisons, he admitted, were ofttimes
odious, but the House could not but look " upon this
picture and on that ;" could not but see the disparity in
the condition of the English and Irish population. Here,
peace and obedience to the Jaw—there, violence and con-
tempt of it.—(llear, hear.) By adopting the measure
he now proposed, the House would gladden the hearts of
thousands of industrious poor people, compel the idle to earn
their bread, and take from the seditious the power of doing
mischief. He supposed he should he met with the re-
cital of some monstrous evils entailed by these laws, ex-
tracted from the abstracts of evidence lately published by
the Commissioners deputed to inquire into the operation
of them. But he begged to say, that that publication
detailed only the abuses of the system, and never alluded
to its benefits.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted those abuses
would not continue in England, and it was never his wish
that they should be extended to Ireland. But because
there were evils in the system here, was that sufficient
reason they should not attempt an improved one in the
sister kingdom ? In 1 18, such was the frightful increase
of pauperism in Dublin, that a society was formed
amongst the inhabitants for the suppression of mendicity.
In their report they stated, that the misery was at once
" appalling and disgusting." That society had been
greatly successful in doing good ; but all must see on what
a precarious tenure its means of relief were held, and how
circumscribed it must necessarily be in its operations.
The inhabitants of Dublin, with the Duke of Leinster at
their head, had now come forward and called upon Par-
liament to make the means of relief compulsory, and
,tvoaesxwteel
l
extend the
known blestshi blessing, oi
tif
tai
mpeoso
flaw peacealla
over Ireland.
l tran-
quillity, capital had an expansive power ; but when this
was not the case, when alarm prevailed, at ever compressed
ud inreerint. I t
itself, and decreased the demand for labour. Poor laws.
he contended, would increase confidence, secure tranquil
lity, and therefore occasion an increased outlay of capital.
—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded by mov-
ing—" That it is the opinion of this House, that the
establishment of a provision for the poor of Ireland, on
the principle of the Act 43 Elizabeth, with such altera-
tions
and improvements as time and circumstances may
require, is expedizat and necessary to the interests of the
United Kingdom."
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN seconded the motion. No-
thing should deter him from advocating the necessity,
feeling, as he did, how strong that necessity was, nf a sensibl
and well-administered system of poor laws for Ireland.
All he asked was, that the poor man should have has