The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-13 00:00:00

(PRICE 7D.)

a •
a
...,
.
;?„,
mT a (minister; bat it it lit pokily' will
il
. . in 9Utty parts .1 Ireland, where Pro. , ,
it to Ise supplied with the benefit! of the
there is a difficulty tin its due perforsance,
cite the clergy have large enoolumentsfla- ...;
leg industrious class are very inatlecrtilatelY -
and are in very distressing eircumstanei.e? 7
irly 200 livings in Ireland ofJe4 thensiOOL
.le this is the case—where *eie)a-a..-4)40-
;rege4eq, IV duties required ofeOegs+gymeip
, Ida
t fairlk say that the clellgy havt mai alfeser rts,y,,,
in the Church. For- the purpose of ' supplying the
deficiency there has been a grant made out t,f the
Board \sf First Fruits. This Board is differ ens
in Engle d, from what it is in Ireland. Ira
Ireland itsrsobject is the repair of the churches, but its
England and Ireland, in consequence of the lapse of time,
what is called the first fruits of livings or benefices, does
not amount to any thing like what they ought to be.—
( Hear, hear.) - It was a mere pretence, and, in fact, they
may be almost said, not to exist. It is, therefore,
proposed to abolish the Board of First Fruits, and the
system altogether ; and in lieu of that, it has several
times been suggested in the House that a new valuation
should take place. But the opinion of the law officers
of the Crown is, that we cannot make a new valuation
without an Act of Parliament. We think it best to
get rid of the Board of First Fruits, and the first
fruits themselves, and in lieu of them to make an
annual reduction from the amount of benefices. Those which
are under '2OO/. we do not propose to reduce; from those
from 2001. to 500/„ we propose to take five per cent. ; from
500/. to 8001. seven per cent. ; from 800/. to 1,200/, ten per
cent.; and from all above, fifteen per cent. It is difficult, for
various reasons, to state what the exact amount of these deduc-
tions will be; but it is presumed that, upon the average, it will
tbhe
ea b
ecclesiasticalo ut s even pe rbceennetfi.
coesn ti
nh e
Iraenlna
nu
da I . valluoeugohfttthoe
hwahv
eo I ec
bo
_l'
served, that it is proposed in this arrangement, whenever a Mi-
nister holds more livings than one, that the deductions should
be made as if the produce of all the livings were the pre_
duce of one living. For instance, if a person has
one of 7001, and another of 300/., it should be taxed
as upon 1,000/, namely at 10 per cent. instead of the
two sums of 7 and 5 per cent. In this proposition
are included Deans, and Chapters, and Prebendaries. But
it is evident that if this ratio should go on and affect the
Bishops in the same proportion, they would be taxed
unfairly, because the expenses of the Bishops exceed
in proportion those of the private clergy, and it would
not be fair to commence with the lowest sees with a re-
duction of 15 per cent., and to increase by the enormous
per tentage to the highest annual amount. It is proper,
therefore, to make a difference in the scale. We propose,
that from all sees below 4,000 a year, 5 per cent. be de-
ducted; all below 6,0001. a year, 7 per cent. ; all below
10,000/. a year 10 per cent., and all above that 15 per cent.
I am aware that in making, the proposition I do, I go at
least the whole length which justice would justify me
in going ; but when I consider the nominal amount of
first fruits that have hitherto existed, and when I consider
the great advantage it must be to the Church to submit to a
sacrifice in order that the clergy may secure to themselves the
affections of the people, I feel the strongest hope that we
shall not meet with any strong opposition from them upon this
point. I will say more, I have reason to hope that we shall
not.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, there is another circumstance ,
which, as it appears to me, is immediately applicable to
the measure which we have in contemplation. It was
stated the other night by an Honourable Member
(I forget whom), that, at the time the aepointinent
of the present Bishop of Derry took place, he received
that appointment subject to a reduction in his
income, whenever any general arrangement should take
place with respect to the Church. Sir, that was correct.
With respect to the revenues of the See of D rry, the
greatest misapprehension prevails. The revenue of theßishop
of Derry amounts, I believe, to 12,159/. a-year. It is pro-
posed, in consequence of the arrangement we made at the
period to which I have referred, to reduce this amount to
B,oool.—(Hear)—of course leaving the Bishop of Derry
subject also to the reduction I have before mentioned, which
upon 8,000/. will be 800/. ; that is to say, in other
words, we at once reduce the ineome of the Bishop
of Derry to 7,200/.—(Loud and continued cheering.)
Now, Sir, I have stated what are the immediate means that
will be placed at the disposal of the House, by the plans we
are bringing forward. We propose that a Board of Corn.
missioners shall be appointed for their management. Be.,
fore I go into the temporalities of the Church, I will state
the object with whieb the Board will be appointed ;
and I beg to say we intend—though it will, as it neces-
sarily must be, be composed of members of the Church
of England—we intend that every means shall be taken
to render it as independent as possible. That Board
will have placed at its disposal the management and distri-
bution of the sums I have stated, together with such other
sums as may fall in under the proposition I have to make.
The House will perceive that the duties which will be imposed
upon the Commissioners in whose hands these funds will be
placed,will not be light. I think the House will agree with me,that
wherever you have a Church establishment, it is the duty of the
Legislature to provide the means of religious worship,
both as regards the edifices in which it is to be performed,
and the expense of performing it.—(Hear, hear.)
Now in Ireland great complaints have been
made, and I admit they are well founded, of the
mode in which this obligation of the State to
maintain religious edifices has been performed. The rate
levied for that purpose in Ireland has been for the most
part paid by Catholics, while the management of this
expenditure has been placed under the direction of a
Protestant vestry. (Hear, hear.) This is a double
grievance; but the Church rate, I think it will be ac-
knowledged, is quite of a different nature to tithes.—.
(Hear, hear.) Tithe is a burden upon land, which the
party who buys land knows his estate has been
subjected to, and will be subjected to.—( Hear, hear.)
In fact, the tithes of an estate are a part of its produce
which do not belong to the owner of the rest. A church
rate is of a different nature. It varies according to
the manner in which it is levied and applied. By abuse lied
mismanagement it may be increased to an immense ex-
tent, while, by frugal management, it may be as much dimi-
nished. It has been, therefore, a particular grievance upon
the Roman Catholics, that they should have to contribute
to Church rates over which they laid no control. Having
stated this, the House will not be surprised to hear, that
it is the determination of Government to abolish Church
rates altogether.—(Loud cheers, which continued for
some time.)—We estimate the annual amount of Church
retrain Ireland to be between 60 and 70,000/. Now, as far
as we can calculate, the means which I have stated as to be
placed at the disposal of the Commissioners, they will be about
60,0001. This is certainly a smaller amount than that now de-
I voted to church repairs, but from all I have heard, I am satisfied
this is an expense which may be most materially dimi-
nished by proper management, and I have not a doubt
1 that this sum will be found sufficient. The Commissioners, I
have said before, will have a most laborious duty to perform
—for the expenditure which will come under review before
them, must occasion an examination of numerous accounts.
The other object of this fund, as it accumulates, which I shall
presently show it will do, will be the augmentation of small
livings, and the building of glebe houses where required,
1 under provisions similar to those now in force in England.
But, Sir, as churches may be built where they are not
required, it is intended to be provided that they shall not
have the power of commencing the building of lama
churches unless a certain sum shall have been raised
by private individuals, or a certain amount of pew rents
have been subscribed for.—(Cheers.) The commis-
sioners, of course, will have liberty to lay before Parlia-
ment all their proceedings. I think, Sir, that the
means placed at the disposal of the Commissioners
will he sufficient to cover the amount of the present
Church tees. But, Sir, as there are many other mat-
ters that are very important to the wellbeing of the
Church of Ireland, it may be said that what I have stated
goes but a little way ; and I will now state to the House
the prospective alterations which are hattajed to be
effectel at the death of the present incumbents.
At present, Sir, the revenue of the Primate of lie-
land, about which considerable exaggerations have gone
expirationsi eso nh
ae
teee:int they
altogether,
okirageer
eett
hi ui pre-
senteenmr,
forth, amounts to about 14,4601. Now it is proposed
that this should be reduced at the
hl
incumbency to 10,000/. a-year, and that, subjected
to the reserves to which all the attic! episettpal revenues are
to be subjected, will be further reduced to 0,000/. With
thoserofexaggerations,
the
Anothera o Deans
ue and
aipointla
respect ss p
toecatt tb the Majesty's
tt,
eDuineoevetteorananmd
coChapters,unrtel
os f tos souls,
ualbws
0,
connected with the cure of souls the proposition of
edoltnoe wmhoiscth i
nlitunrui:tuaslsts
lanPftwrihwichhiethhecraenhhii
looked upon in no other light than es sinecures, will hi
itaeptlneteontrght;eioabtliet,
the Church of Ireland. I mean, Sir, those livings, in whit
no duty is or can ha performed. It is proposed, Sir, with r 4
acal AtabsOloalri eih;
hhee
eeffie
:04,
spect to those livings, in which no duty has been perforce
for the last three years, after the death of the incumbent, I
give the discretion to the Commissioners to suspend tle
re,appointmont of such ministers to such livings, I at
sure, Sir, that the House will at once see the reason why e
have named three years previous, because if it had been for a
shorter period, it le very likely some course would have been
pursued, in order to endeavour to show that duty had
beers performed in the living since the period named,
With respect to the number of the B si.ops.--(L„ :
cries of " Hear")—as with ___F: ~ it, roll
of England population of Ireland, I 004 not 01,1.
oemeared the I'
I:cler that to In tha. fair mete of eating the ques het.
Decimate the datiti 47( 419111 I,l4Apt 4% lig, depend sal,ty

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