The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-31 00:00:00

M A Y 31, 18f.1

Stocktoa, Mi:ldlcsbrough, Yarm, &c., Waterworks.
Ulverston and Lancaster Railway.
Coal Duties (London and Westminster, and ad-
jacent Counties) Bill was read a second time. _

The following Bills were considered and agreed to:—
Clerkenwell Improvement (Transfer of Powers to the
• Corporation of London, &c.)
London (City) Sewers.

referring to Hansard, it appeared that as nearly as pes-
sible the same number of pages were occupied by the
suppertora as by the opponents of the measure. It was
evident, then, the opponents of the Bill, on that occasion,
only did their duty in replying to its advocates.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The motion fur the first
reading was made on the 14th of March. The delay be-
tween the 7th of February and the 14th of March was
caused, not by the opponents of the BM, but by the
feebleness and incapacity of the Government.—(Hear,
hear.) The question of the first reading was debated for
seven nights—a long period, no doubt, but he found that
there were twenty. four speakers for the Bill, and only
twenty-eight against ir, while the former occupied rather
more time in addressing the Home than the latter. The
subsequent delay caused by the postponement of the
Bill till after Easter was the act of the Noble Lord
himself—(Hear)--and even after Easter the measure was
again postponed for another week, in order to meet the
convenience of the Administration.—(Hoar, hear.)
On the question that the Speaker should leave the
chair-one' evening was occupied with the motion of the
Hon. Member for Stafford, and he (Mr. Moore) subse-
quently felt it his duty to address the House on a point
of order which no Member of the House—from the
Speaker downwards—would way was not deserving of
serious consideration. The HouFe having gone into
Committee, what occurred then ? Although the Bill
had been postponed for a month to allow the Govern-
ment to reconsider and amend it, yet, at the eleventh
hour, on going into Committee, the Government
adopted a new clause of the greatest importance, the
depth and obscurity of which they bad never yet been
able to fathom. The opponents of the Bill very natu-
rally suggested that the clause should be printed in the
Bill before the Committee was called on to discuss it,
and, scarcely credible as it would appear, that reasonable
proposition was resisted by the Noble Lord. A consi-
derable debate ensued; and at last the Noble Lord as-
sented, most ungraciously, to what he had pertina-
ciously opposed. At length the House went into Com-
mittee on the reprinted Bill, which was delivered only
at the eleventh hour, wet from the press. The Right
Honourable Member for the University of Oxford, and
others, declared that sufficient time had not been al-
lowed to enable them to understand the provisions of
the Bill, and c Jusequently the measure, after some' de-
bate, was postponed for another week. When the
.House went into Committee on the appointed day, the
Hort. 'end Learneek Member for Athlone moved that
the preamble should be postponed ; but the motion
was rejected, although it was now universally admitted
that its adoption would have greatly facilitated the dis-
cussion of the measure.—(Hear, hear.) When the first
clause was proposed, it came out for the first time that
while the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhuret had
proposed it in a limited and restricted sense, the Go-
vernment had adopted it ire a sweeping and mischievous
sense, and extended it to a part of the empire to which
the lion. and Learned Member for Midhuret did not
mean it to apply. Under these circumstances, it was
o.ot surprising that the opponents of the Bill should en-
deavour to effect alterations with a view of reconcil-
ing the contradictory opinions of the teolicilor-General
and the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhurst, and to
rescue the clause from the doubt and obscurity in which
it was designedly left. by the Government. The Noble
Lord complained of his ()ppm' eta for moving provisoes
identical, he said, in spirit, if not in words. All ho
could say in reply was that the provisoes were as differ-
ent from each other as the present Bill was from the one
originally introduced. (Here the lion. Member recapi- '
Whited the provisoes which had been moved, with the
view of allowing their variance from each other.) The
Members who moved the provisoes had no other object
than to make the first clause do that which the Go-
vernment declared it was intended to do. Public
opinion, it was true, called for legislation oa this sub-
ject; but for legislation clear and definite, not that
which was purposely obscure. Public opinion called for
a statute which should resist the recent act of the Pope,
without interfering with or insulting the religious feeling
of any of the Queen's subjects; bat this Bill did in-
terfere with the Raman Catholic religion, while it did
not resist, the alleged aggression.--(flear, hear.) On
these grounds he appealed to the Howe, and to the public
opiqou which the Noble Lord himself invoked; against
the proceedings of the Government.
Mr. KEOGH called on the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government to deelare whether he would assent
to the proviso.
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that he would oppose it.
Mr. WALPOLE suggested that it would be better to
move the proviso at the end of the second clause, by
which means it would apply to all proseOutions under
the Bill. -

Mr. KEOGH would adopt the suggestion, if the
Hon. and Learned Member would support the proviso.
Mr. WALPOLE had not made up his mind on the
point, but would consider it.

Mr. KEOGH thought it better to take the chance of
having the Hon. and Learned Member's support than
incur the risk of his opposition by moving the proviso
now, and therefore he withdrew it.

Oa the question that clause 1 should stand part of the
BID,

Sir J. GRAHAM said, that having been indulged by
the House with a full opportunity of expressing his
opinion against the principle of the Bill on the occasion
of the second reading, he had during the progress of the
measure in Committee carefully abstained, up to the pre-
sent true, from taking part in any of the discussions
whigh had arisen. The Commi:tee was now called upon
to agree to the first clause, which was not part of the
Bill when he had the honour of addressing the House
before; and, feeling great duubt, with respect to
the teal import of the clause, he hoped he might be
pardoned for obtruding himself on the attention of
the Committee for a short time, protaising, at the
same time, not to restate any of his opinions with respect
to the principle of the Bill—which remained unchanged
—but to confine himself entirely to the question under
conaideration. Having found himself in a small mino-
rity in opposing the principle of the Bill he might have
lett the arrangement of the details to the great majority
who bad supported it, and have waited the opportunity
of its coming out of the Committee to consider the shape
whi4h, after a careful deliberation, its supporters had
thought fit to give it; but stilt he regarded this clause
as so impOrtant, more especially considering the ambi-
guitY which hung around it, that he considered it expe-
dient io ask for some discussion upon it, and, if possible,
to obtain some explanation of what was its real import.
-:—(liear.) He would first ask, what was the intention
of the clause, and then, if he could divine what its inten-
tioniwas, he would apply himself to find out what.was
dope by it. With respect to the intention of a clause
we naturally looked to the preamble. Now, this
wasp clause of a peculiar character. It was a clause
whidh her Majesty's Government had adopted at the
suggestion of his lion. and Learned Friend the Member
for Ilidhurst; and, seeking for advice as to the intention
of the clause through the medium of the preamble he
would try to find it first by looking at the preamble as
adopted by the Government, and then at the preamble
as sought to be amended by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Wal-
pole). The preamble of the Government was peculiarly
worded. It said—
" Whereas divers of her Majesty's Roman Catholic
subjekti -have assumed to themselves the titles of arch-
bishep and bishops of a pretended proviace, and of
pretended sees' or dioceses, Within the United 'King-
dorn, under colour of an alleged authority given to
then} for that purpose by a certain brief, - rescript, or
letters apostolical from the see of Rome, purporting
to have been given at Rome on the 29th of September,
185 d." _ _

H.e begged the House to observe the peculiarity of the
phrase " United Kingdom," because they saw imme-
diately from the words which followed that it ap-
plied to one rescript of a particular date, which
was strictly applicable to England only. It did
not extend -to the whole of the 'United Kingdom
and the words, "within the United Kingdom," could only
have been adopted in the preamble upon the under-
standing that England was a part of the United Kingdom
In no other sense could the words be used, for the re-
script referred to did not extend to Ireland, but was ex-
pressly limited to England.—(Hear, hear.) The in-
ference therefore was, that as the preamble referred only
to One rescript, and that rescript applied only to
England, it was the intention of the clause to be strictly
limited to England. Ho would now call the attention
of the House to the proposed alteration of the preamble
by his Hon. and Learned Friend, who was the real au-
thor of the clause. Did he seek (judging from his pre-
amble) to limit the operation of the clause to England
only, and to restrict it to one particular rescript? Nothing
of the kind. Look at the words of which he had given
notice. After the word " pounds" he proposed to omit
all the following words down to the words " United
Kingdom," and to insert the words, " And whereas the
said brief, rescript, or letters apostolical" (alluding to
the rescript of September 29, 1850); he then proposed
the following important and significant words, " and all
such or the like acts or matters touching the Queen, her
crown, her regality, and the realm"—(Hear)---thus in-
dicating as clearly as words could convey it an intention
different from that of the Government—not that the de-
claratory clause should be applicable to one rescript
only, and to England only, but that it should be appli-
cable to all rescripta or bulls, whether future or ante-
cedent.—(Hear, hear.) But again he would ask, what
was the intention of Government, as indicated by their
conduct with-regard to the firer Bill which they laid
upon the table of the House? That Bill contained a se-
cond and third clause, following that which was now the
second clause of the present Bill, which, upon delibera-
den, the Government withdrew, for reasons which were
'stated by the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
inent. Upon full consideration, and after hearing argu-
ments in that House, they were satisfied that the second
:they spiritual
did
and third clauses interfered with
functions of the . Catholic episcopate,
not think it expedient to touch either in E tio.and or
Ireland, such as ordination, collation to benefices,
mi
'and *slier ecclesiastical functions, which
most ' anxious_ riot to disturb. He they were
wished to know
whether ~itA
ras the intention of
the Government,
who hay-1 since adopted the first
to a:1i? intention which they deliberately clause, to adhere
to the House when they Withdrew announced
clauses of the former Bill ?—(rdear the second and third
desirable that they Should , hear.) It was most
come to a distinct under-
standieg upon that point.
arriving at a distinct apprehdAund here the difficulty ofd
was materially increased by -
th(•3l(c)hnaunges f what
takenh:ahshiandtend -
place in the law officers of the Crown duringw the pro-
gress of this ite
asure. He was sorry the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Master of the Rolls was not present; but
ho_was sure the House would remember that he (then
had
the office of Attorney-General) stated that he
given un opinion, to which opinion, upon reflection,
'rte distinctly
adhered, that by the law, as it now stood,
there was no impediment whatever to the Pope's divi-
ding any portion of the country into (MOUSES, sees, or
districts, or whatever names they might please to give
them, for ecclesiastical and episcopal purposes.—(Hear,
ar.) The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman wart
no longer a law adviser of the Crown. Ho now filled
a high judicial position, and he had been succeeded by a