The Sun.
London, England, 1834-08-08 00:00:00

COURT CIRCULAR.

Prince Talleyrand had an interview yesterday with Viscount
Palmerston, at the Foreign-office.
M. Van de Weyer, the Belgic Minister, also visited his
Lordship yesterday.
Captain Mackinnon ( Aide-de-Camp to Lord Aylmer, the
Governor of Lower Canada) had an interview yesterday with
Mr. Secretary Rice, at the Colonial-office.
Several Irish members of the House of Commons had an
interview yesterday with Viscount Althorp.
Despatches from the Marquis of Sligo, the Governor of
Jamaica, and also from the Governor of the Bahamas, were
received yesterday at the Colonial-office.
Earl Bathurst has arrived in town from Cirencester.
Mr. Saintsbury, secretary of the West India body, transacted
business on Wednesday at the Colonial-office.

In the reign of George 11. the Legislature made a
vigorous effort to root out gin-drinking ; but Tindal tells us
that within two years the act for that purpose had become
" odious and contemptible ;" and it was stated by Lord Chol-
mondeley, then one of the ministers, in his place in the House
of Peers, that at the very moment when gin-drinking was pro-
scribed, and the most vigorous efforts were made by Govern-
ment to carry the law into effect, above 7,000,000 gallons of
gin were annually consumed in London and its immediate
vicinity; and that the officers employed to prevent the illegal
sale of spirits were hunted down like wild beasts, and some-
times even murdered in open day 1 Yet—for folly would seem
to be everlasting—hereve have a committee of a reformed
House of Commons recommending a recurrence to a measure
productive of such results 1 Perhaps Mr. Burke went too far
when he affirmed that the alembic was " a benefit and a bless-
ing." But it is absurd to contend, because spirits are occa-
sionally abused, that they are uniformly injurious. We might
as well propose that the press should be proscribed, on the
ground of its being employed to print rubbish like this report,
as that distillation should be put down, that the intoxication of
a small portion of the dregs of the populace may be prevented.

(ADVERTISEMENT.
PATENT SOAP COMPANY.—An experiment has
been made within the last few days, before the Committee
and others connected with this Company, which has far sur-
passed their most sanguine expectations. It was ascertained
that the article could be produced at a lower price than was
originally stated by the patentee ; the cleansing qualities have
been proved to far exceed that of common soap. It is more
cleanly in its appearance and use, and in addition a very im-
portant quality has been discovered, which of itself renders
the compound almost invaluable, and cannot fail to command
an immense sale, viz., that it can be used in salt water with
almost equal effect to that of soft water. We beg to remind
our readers that the Share List will be closed on the 21st of
August, after which day no more will be allowed except upon
such terms as the Committee may think proper. The shares,
we understand, arc being taken up with great avidity.
A MISERLY FRENCH DUKE AND A SHABBY
KING of THE FRENCII.—The following anecdote will demon-
strate the penurious habits of the present King of the French :
—Louis Philippe being in London several years ago, entered
a bookseller's shop in Holborn, where he thought he was not
known, and asked for a work on the naval affairs of England.
The bookseller, who had not a copy left, told the Duke to call
again, and promised to find it for him. The Duke did call
again, and the bookseller, who had been fortunate in procuring
the volumes, asked four pounds. Louis Philippe offered
two pounds ; this Jewish offer the bookseller declined,
and meanwhile Louis Phillippe bargained for a three shilling
book, which he immediately paid for ; but before quitting the
shop he addressed himself thus to the bookseller, " As I have
given you a great deal of trouble, I leave you this three-shil-
ling book as a compensation." Having said this, the Duke
d'Orleans walked out of the shop, leaving the little book
behind. The bookseller followed him to the hackney-coach-
stand opposite his shop, and threw it into the hackney-coach,
where the French Prince was already seated, apparently not
displeased by receiving the three shilling volume. The book-
seller has still on hand the naval books which Louis Philippe
ordered.—Morning Advertiser.

LONDON,
FRIDAY EVENING, AUGUST 8, 1834.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE, evidently repenting of the
vast change produced in the Poor Laws' Amendment
Bill by the rejection of the 70th clause, relative to
bastardy, and seeing the imprrapriety of defeating a
principle sanctioned in the Commons by a majority of
114 to 39, gave notice the other evening of his in-
tention to move certain amendments on the third
reading, which might remedy these inconveniences,
and mitigate the hardship that would be in-
flicted on the woman by such injustice and partiality.
As public business, however, required his presence
elsewhere, the Duke of WELLINGTON undertook
to move the additional clauses on the third reading of
the Bill this evening, and candidly stated his reason
for adopting such a course. We objected from the
beginning to that part of the Bill as it originally
stood, and contended that, considering its cruelty to-
wards the woman, its unmerited lenity towards the
man, the general feelings of human nature, and the
vast expense to which parishes would be put by un-
principled men, those provisions of the Bill could
never be carried into effect ; and it is some gra-
tification to find that after all the long speeches
in favour of the principle, after all the alterations,
the adoption of amendments, and the rejection of these
amendments,—the House of Lords, at the last stage of
the Bill, has seen the necessity of further alterations,
and the propriety of rendering something like justice
to the injured female, without letting the heartless
seducer escape. The Duke admitted the extreme
hardships of that part of the Bill towards the woman,
and the expediency of softening them down in con-
formity to the feelings of the public, and the feel-
ings of a vast majority in the House of Com-
mons. Had he always judged of the feelings
of the public as he has done at last on this occasion,
he might yet have been prime minister of England ;
but how, indeed, could there be any doubt, even at the
commencement of the discussion, what opinion every
impartial man would pronounce on a measure so
fraught with severity and injustice ? No people in the
world have a keener sense of justice than the English,
and their leaning naturally is always towards the
weaker party. With what reason, then, could it
be expected that they would sanction a law, or stand
by and see it carried into effect, which would consign
the victim of seduction to a workhouse, overcome by
poverty, heart-broken with her own degradation, loaded
with sorrow and shame, and ruined for ever in the
estimation of her friends,—while the man that caused
her ruin by false promises and insidious designs, should
in the eye of the law be regarded as comparatively
blameless ? The human mind revolts at such
injustice ; and in England there would have been
but one universal cry of indignation raised
against it. Though the proposed amendments
scarcely go so far as the rejected clause, and not so far
in our opinion as justice demands, still they will do
much to " soften down the extreme hardship" of that
part of the Bill. From the low tone of conversation
in which the alterations were adverted to in the House
last night, their precise extent -could not be ascer-
tained, but enough was heard to justify the belief that
they will obviate the chief objections. According to
what transpired, the proof against the man is to be
taken at the Quarter Sessions, and not as now, at the
Petty Sessions or police offices. The oath of
the woman is not to be allowed without other
evidence, and on the evidence being satisfactory,
the man is to pay for the maintenance of the
child. In the case of a second offence, and when
there are grounds for believing that the woman is irre-
claimable, the Bill as it now stands is to be allowed
to take sits course. The Bishop of EXETER has an

amendment to propose, the object of which is to
reject all the bastardy clauses, and leave the ex-
isting law, with all its absurdities, untouched ; but
such an amendment is utterly hopeless, and it would
be therefore better for the Right Rev. Prelate to
withdraw it at once, and render his cordial assistance
in making the new enactment effective as a check on
immorality, and at the same time consistent with justice
and mercy.

Those among our readers who have any predilec-
tion for curiosities, will receive abundant gratification
from a perusal of the Report of the Select Com-
mittee on Drunkenness. It is really a unique produc-
tion, and might almost tempt one to believe that it had
been penned under the influence of that very intoxica-
tion which it so zealously denounces We cannot
define its character better than by saying that it is the
perfection of twaddle. From a few sanctimonious ex-
pressions in it, as well as from its desperate defiance of
all consecutive reasoning, and the full and entire igno-
rance of the state of the country that it puts forth, with
lavish generosity, in every paragraph, we more than
half suspect that Sir ANDREW AGNEW has had some
share in this droll composition. At any rate, it is
worthy of that blessed Baronet in his most inspired
moments—which is saying a good deal for it.
_

The object of the Report appears to be two-fold,
first, to horrify, secondly, to assuage the feelings of
those among its readers who may be afflicted with
an undue portion of nervous sensibility. For instance,
it sets down the crimes engendered by drunkenness at
24, and the remedies at 33,—which is in the very
handsome and consolatory proportion of 24 remedies
for every 1 crime. Some of the crimes, however, arc
of such a vague and enigmatical character that there is
no grappling with them ; and the same may be said of
the remedies, which, as puzzles, are entitled to the
pre-eminence even over that celebrated one of Mr.
BUCKINGHAM'S own " Sphynx." Both would make
capital riddles for next year's pocket-books.
Among the results more expressly attributed to drun-
kenness, we find " extensive loss of property by sea,"—
" the comparative inefficiency of the army and navy,"—
" the injury to national reputation abroad,"—" the re-
tardation of all improvement,"—the hindering of edu-
cation,"—the violation of chastity,"—and the " loss
of personal beauty 1" This, it must be confessed, is
an appalling catalogue, though we cannot, for the life of
us, make out how its different items apply to drunken-
ness more than to any other folly or crime. As for the
pathetic allusion to the inefficiency of our naval and
military forces, we simply beg leave to remind the Com-
mittee, that addicted to " deep potations" as both may
be, still the one annihilated at Trafalgar, and the other at
Waterloo,the power of the most sober kingdom in Europe ;
whence we infer that there is a redeeming virtue in baro°.
which more than counterbalances any iniquitous quality
that the Committee may suppose to reside in it.
Again, why should " violation of chastity" be laid
exclusively at the door of drunkenness ? Men of the
world know right well that the seducers of female
innocence are not your reckless, tipsy fools, but your
cool, wary roues, who are too experienced in such
matters to be ever thrown off their guard by intoxi-
cation. For one atrocity of the sort perpetrated by a
tipsy man, ninety-nine are the result of sobriety and
premeditation. BACCHUS in his inspired moments
has always been held to be the foe, not the ally, of
VENUS. But the Committee, who are philosophers,
and fond of theory, think otherwise. With regard to
the " loss of personal beauty," unquestionably this is a
visitation to make one shudder; still, even here, "there is
balm in Gilead," for we cannot take it on our conscience
to say, that we ever remember one single instance of an
Adonis having been turned into a Gorgon through the
influence of "strong waters." WILLIAM PITT lost
none of his " personal beauty" by his bibulous propen-
sities, though BARDOLPII and SHERIDAN may each
have gained a nose by them.
Come we now to the remedies for all these
multiplied horrors. Two of the most notable ap-
pear to be—first, the establishment of Temperance
Societies, the prime article of whose creed is
to be a- full and • lively faith in the virtues of
water ; secondly, that all spirit-shops should be
thrown open to public view, so that the
worldmay receive the proper amount of disgust
by a fine full-length view of every sinner who may
chance to enter these abodes of abomination. Of the
first of these remedies we say nothing, it being noto-
rious that many members of Temperance Societies are
two-bottle men ; but the last, we are convinced, will
never answer any other purpose' than that of throwing
three kingdoms into convulsions of laughter. Conceive
a thirsty Patlander, fatigued with a day's toil, turning
away from the. rurchase of a glass of his favourite
whiskey, because some two or three dozen temperate
individuals may be inquisitively watching his move-
ments through a pair of spectacles ! Conceive the
blush that would bepaint his Hibernian countenance at
being detected in the act of premeditating such an
enormity

Foremost among the remote causes of drunken-
ness, the Committee place the celebration of bap-
tisms, marriages, funerals, holidays, festivities, and
such-like national atrocities--evidently implying, there-
fore, that these customs should be discontinued.
Oh, " merry England I" what would become of thee
and thy nut-brown October ale ;—what of thy social
Christmas, and jolly harvest-home, were cant like
this once to gain the upper hand in thy Legislature !
But this ANDREW AGNEW spirit must not be per-
mitted to make head, or it will turn a bold,
happy, social community, into one- of saints
and hypocrites. We hold with FALSTAFF rather than
with BUCKINGHAM on this point. Not that we are
advocates of drunkenness, God forbid ; but we are
averse to that prying, canting, teazing spirit of Legis-
lation, which cannot let well alone, but is constantly,
like Paul Pry, intruding itself where it is least needed.
For Heaven's sake, Mr. BUCKINGHAM leave the
poor to enjoy themselves as they think best. It is
almost the only privilege they have left ; do not then
deprive them of it, or saddle them with an excommu-
nication, merely because they have no faith in the
wisdom of Temperance Societies.

We say nothing of the bungling, illogical man-
lier in which the Report is drawn up
; but
we cannot close without observing that it attributes
every folly, every vice, and every blunder under hea-
ven exclusively to drunkenness. The Committee ap-
pear to have drawn it up with their hair standing on
end at the bare thought of such an unprecedented
enormity. According to them the worship of Bacchus
is the one only crime for which this country will stand
accountable at the tribunal of after ages. Yet even
here they make discreet distinctions. There is not
the slightest allusion to the tippling at aristocratic
clubs and mess-rooms ; the vials of the Committee's

wrath are exclusively devoted to the poor man's cor-
dial at a spirit-shop. If he venture• on the sin of
swallowing a single glass, they take special care that
he shall swallow an anathema along with it.

In the House of Commons last night, Lord AL-
THORP brought up a message from his MAJESTY, to
the effcet that having taken into consideration the
present state of reversion of estates, accruing to the
Crown by reason of attainder in Ireland, his MA-
JESTY had given directions to bar all such reversions.
This generous sacrifice, which will be fraught with
the greatest benefit to the landowners of Ireland, was
warmly and deservedly applauded by men of all parties
—by none more warmly than by Messrs. SIIAw and
O'CONNELL.

We understand that the Spanish Ambassador re-
ceived favourable accounts last night from Madrid to
the Ist inst.

We have received the whole of the Paris papers of
Wednesday, with accounts from Madrid up to the
29th of July. The only particular they bring us
which can properly be classed under the head of
.News, is a telegraphic dispatch in the Moniteur,
bearing date August the 3d, from St. Jean de Luz,
to the effect that EL PASTOR informed the Magis-
tracy of that town, that on the Ist of August the Car-
lists were attacked and'driven towards Iturgoyen with
great loss, and that the Queen's forces were pursuing them
in all directions. The insurgents, under ZAVALA, had
previously suffered a defeat at Egbar,a considerable town,
which they had attacked on the 27th ultimo, in expec-
tation of -carrying it by storm, but the inhabitants so
gallantly defended themselves, that, after a few hours
desperate fighting, the Carlists were obliged to betake
themselves to their heels, which happily succeeded in
carrying them out of the reach of their brave pur-
suers. Twelve of the insurgents were killed, and about
fifty wounded.
The Madrid papers, in speaking of the conspirators
who are about to be brought to trial, are unani-
mous in thinking that none of the chief
parties implicated will be condemned, as the evidence
against them is very inconclusive. They are, more-
over, of opinion that there was much less danger in
the whole affair than was at first imagined, as the
young QUEEN has not braver or more loyal subjects
than the individuals now under arrest, At all events, their
not being implicated in any plot with the Carlists is
greatly in their favour, as is the well-known chivalrous
devotion of PALAFOX to the glory of the Spanish

name.
We have received the Brussels papers. The
Cabinet has been reconstructed, by the accession of
four Ministers in the room of those who had
resigned. The House of Representatives has risen,
and the sitting will not again commence till the 15th of
October, which is a month earlier than usual. The
reason of this departure from the usual time of
meeting is stated to be the anxiety of the new
Ministry to try their strength in the House.
It is further reported, that should General
VAN HALEN, the Belgian officer implicated in
the Spanish conspiracy, stand in need of such as-
sistance, the Government purposes applying for his
release. What is particularly strange in VAN HA-
LEN'S arrest, is, that he is of the most High Tory
principles.
We learn from the Augsburg Gazette, of the 2d
instant, that Syria has openly revolted against the
power of IBRAHIM PACHA, and that in Damascus
many of the troops deserted to join the rebels. MEHE-
MET Am had ordered a part of the army to march in
defence of his newly acquired power ; and, according
to the same authority, was under no very pleasant ap-
prehensions, lest the PORTE should take advantage of
the critical state of his affairs, and order an army into
Egypt. We will await other arrivals before offering
any comments of this state of affairs in the East.
FRENCH FUNDS.—PARIS, Aua.6.
Five per Cents., 105 f. 70c. 95c. 1061.
Four per Cents., 93f. 962 f. 75c.
Three per Cents., 75f. 53c. 25c. 45c.
National Loan, 105 f. 70c.
Bank Actions, 1,760 f.
' Rente de Naples, 93f. 93f. 10c.
Roman Five per Cents., 944%.
Rente d'Espagne, Five per Cents., 35 31% 25.
Rente d'Espagne, Three per Cents., 34 34% at
Royal Spanish Loan, 6455
Rente Perpet. d'Espagne, Five per Cents., 49 50% 49%.
' Belgian Loan, Five per Cents., 93%.
Haytian Loan, 275 f.
EXCHANGE ON LONDON.
One month, paper, 25f. ; money, —f. —c.
Three nionths, paper, —f. —c. ; money, 25f 15c.
•
—Cours
ifutlientique

German Papers contain some idle speculations on
the prospects of success that the French and English
fleets would have in case they combined to force the
passage of the Dardanelles. A Russian spirit breathes
throughout the article.

BERLIN, JULY 26.—The Morning Chronicle says that Lord
Palmerston, in answer to the inquiry of the Russian Cabinet respect-
ing the object of the English naval armament in the Mediterra-
nean, replied that it Witt ih the first Me for the practice of the
crews; but that it had also been thought advisable to send those
ships to that quarter where circumstances might unfortunately ren-
der their presence most necessary. In Paris and Berlin, as well as in
England itself, persons supposed to be well-informed, speak much
more positively of the plan of operations of the French and English
fleets to be united in the Mediterranean, as it has been concerted
between the Cabinets of St. James's and the Tuileries. They
affirm that the combined fleets Will have 8 or 10,000 troops on
board; net With to 1111111 a force to make themselves masters of
Oftistantinople, but to take possession of the Dardanelles, and thus
compel the Sultan and the Russian Emperor to dissolve the offen-
sive and defensive alliance atibiihtitig between them. Iti order to
obtain this object, say they, a fleet with bomb-vessels is not suf-
ficient; for when Admiral Duckworth) in 1807, , with eight ships
of the line, fair frigates, mid many smaller VeSSeISI forced the pas-
sage of the Dardanelles without loss, the fortifications were hi the
most wretched condition, ligt ill the short interval from
the 20th of February to the 2d of March, the Turks,
with the assistance o Settle, Frefficii Older§ then at Con-
stantinople, had Olt the 6f the 1 art:l6lolW into ittich a
good condition, that on the last named day the English Auniiral
could not effect his retreat without loss, arid was obliged to confess
that in a week litiff it ikettld have been itiiliotsibte. The "resent
plan of the French and English is said to be to attack the forts of
the Dardanelles by land, as well on the European as the Asiatic
side, where the works are `stated to he 4ier., *exit; with the troops
on board, and so to obtain
.possession of them kin the EUropeati side.
The landing is to begin , in the OulYof aroSi in tirdei tel Obtain
possession of town of Clalhpoli, whiehiS an important station for
the Turkish navy, but imperfectly fortified on the other side. After
the conquest of this plVe of the 1:6(10016i, iitilated to
the south or it fife to be taken possession a In Asia the com-
bined fleet is to land the other half of the troops in the Gulf of
Adramiti, near Antandros, from which place a short road leads
along the sea coast to the forts of the Dardanelles on the Asiatic
side, which it is hoped will be tsketi WitliOnt diflietiltit; in this
manner the othentiSe dankeroiis passage will he rendered easy to
the fleet. All these reatotimgs,,Which come from persons who are
initiated into the policy of the Fretieh Cabinet, take it for granted
that the Turks and their allies will not tale the slightest
precaution to prevent the projected landings, that they have
not lately fortified the Dardanelles, arid that they. will not
have any
army on the tyro sides or
,the,gliaiti certainly indis-
putable that if the etfilthified il6et ihoifici successfully execute this
plan, it may appear On the following day before Constantinople, and
if negotiation; fails, may that eilki The etithittiasts at
Paris, and the enemy of the Russians (according to our accounts)
go farther, and alre y see in imagination the English and French
squadron sail through the channel of Constantinople, penetrate into
the Black Sea, and destroy the Russian harhotirt end towns on its
coast. In this they betray a total ighoranee of localities. A
large fleet cannot manoeuvre in the Ethane as in other seas.
The Pontus, called by the ancients the iiitiOSpitable,
is difficult to be navigated on account of the rapid changes
of the winds ; and a fleet dispersed by a storiti would find
no good harbour in which to seek shelter except those which are
either in possession of the Russians, or under Russian influence.
The combined squadron will hardly venture into the deep and well-
defended harbours of Sebastopol and Nicotujeff, nor is it likely that
such an attempt would prove to their advantage. But the loss
which the Russian empire might suffer by the projected burning of
its forts on the South Coast, would probably be very inconsiderable.
With the exception of Odessa, there is not in the -whole distance
from the mouth of the Danube to the road of Kutsch, a single
place of importance that could be bombarded from the
sea' side, and Russian houses are built at so small an expense that
it is not worth while to expend powder and ball in destroying them.
The Allies besides certainly do not flatter themselves with the hope '
that the Russian Government will quietly suffer its towns to be set
on fire. They win remember that their ships, as well as the Rus-
sian houses are made of wood, and are as easily set on flre.—Allge-
meine Zeitung, Aug. 2,
BERLIN, Jula-11,;—Though people continue to talk a great ,

deal about the measures to be taken respecting the Journals, the
Censorship, &c., it appears that all that has been published on
the subject is but dreams of idle or timid persons. The
wisdom of our Government, and especially the liberality
and real magnanimity of that of Prussia, by which censure
expressed in becoming language is tolerated, is too well
known to allow us to apprehend any thing like what these re-
ports announce. His Majesty the King we know, on a former oc-
casion, said in a Cabinet order of Bth February, 1804, " Becoming
publicity is the surest guarantee of the Government and the sub-
ject, against the negligence and ill-will of the subordinate officers."
The Government will direct the stream in a peaceful channel, re-
membering the words of the great Leibnitz, who, in a letter in
160',, says :—" Public opinion does much, and almost every thing
in the world."—Frankfort Papers, Aug. 3.

DUTCH FUNDS--AmtvrEnnAnt, Auo. 5.
Actual Debt, 21,,, per Cent.
Amort Syndic, 4yQ per cent. B9 to 8914
Ditto, ditto, 31.6 per cent.
Loan (1830) 5 per cent
Ditto (1832 and .833) 5 per cent.

Lord J. RUSSELL moved last night in the House
of Commons, that no new writs should be issued
for the Boroughs of Hertford, Warwick, and Car-
rickfergus, before the 20th February next, which
was carried by a majority of 67 to 18. This will
show the House of Lords, that if they reject Bills for
amending the corruption of Bormighs, the House of
Commons will not fail to suspend the writs for them.

The Stag (46), Captain Lockyer, sailed from Lis-
bon on the 26th ult., and arrived at Fahnouth on the
sith inst. She left in the Tagus Rear7Admiral Sir
William Gage in the Hastings, 74. ;;. The Pike,
schooner arrived there on the 22d ; and olOthe 25th
the Co7oance steamer left the Tagus for Oporto, in
company with the vessel in which the Queen of Por-
tugal and Don Pedro had embarked for that port.
Rear-Admiral Sir Blagdon Capel will hoist his flag
this day on board the Winchester, at Chatham, and
will shortly proceed to assume the command of the
naval forces in the East Indies.

The Portland, Captain Price, will touch at Tan-
gier, on her way to the Mediterraneaii, but is not to
communicate with Gibraltar.

The Firebrand steamer is at Helvoetsluys waiting
for her Majesty, who is expected to embark at that
port for England on, if not More, the 18th of the
present month.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

THIS DAY, FRIDAY, AUGUST 8.

HOUSE OF COM lIONS.

The SPEAKER took the chair at 20 minutes past twelve

The O'CONNOR DON presented a petition signed by three
Deputy Lieutenants and several Landowners of the county of Mayo,
praying to be relieved from the support of the constabulary force ;
also a petition from John Bourke, of Porhunna, county Galway,
praying remuneration for certain losses, which we could not dis-
tinctly hear.
WESTMINSTER HALL.

The LORD ADVOCATE presented a petition from certain
owners of flag quarries in Caithness, praying that these flags would
be employed in paving Westminster Hall, as they effectually resisted
damp.
FLOGGING IN THE ARMY.

Colonel EVANS presented a petition from the churchwardens
and parishioners of St. Martin's-in-the-Fields against the system
of military flogging. The Hon. Member contended that corporal
punishment was most cruel and degrading, and that it was quite
inefficient in preserving military discipline. He instanced the system
pursued in France and Russia, where the discipline of the army was
most excellent, and where flogging was unknown. He trusted that
some measure would be adopted by which this most abominable
system of punishment would be put an end to. What he (Colonel
Evans) would propose as a substitute was, that a greater power
should be given to commanding officers in placing the men in soli-
tary confinement, mulcting them in their pay, and allowing them
nothing but bread and water. He would also suggest that the men
should be punished by hard labour, and by being sent to the co-
lonies abroad. He thought the system of granting discharges in
the British army was founded upon error—the good man, who had
the means, was allowed to purchase his discharge, but the com-
manding officer could not take any steps to rid the regiment of a
bad man. This system should be altered completely, and after
the improper characters had been sufficiently punished by being
sent to the penal settlements for a certain time, or some other pu-
nishment of that nature, they should be completely got rid of.—
(Hear.) He trusted that the commission, which was about to he
appointed for the purpose of inquiring into this subject, would be
attended with those effects which the public anticipated from it.
Mr. DENISON said he had a petition to present upon the same
subject from -. He was most anxious that the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite would give some statement relative to
the fainting of some of the men at the late punishment of Private
llutchison, as it would tend very much to allay the excitement that
existed out of doors. When public sympathy was so much aroused
by punishment of this nature, when the offender was looked izpon
as a victim to cruelty and oppression, it was time that it should be
put an end to, and some other system introduced in its stead. He
hoped his Right Hon. Friend would take that opportunity, of as-
miring the House, that prompt measures would be taken to bring
the Subject under inquiry.
Sir JOHN BYNG was glad to find that the subject had been
discussed with so much good temper and moderation on the present
occasion. Had that course been pursued on fewer occasions, it
would have tended much more to forward the views of the oppo-
nents of the system. He believed that many of those Members
who had voted in the majority when the question was under the
consideration of the House, had done so under the impression that
some steps Viotild be taken to abolish the punishment of flogging.
He could inform the House that the officers of the army were as
anxious as any men for the abolition of corporal punishment—so
anxious that when he n the command of a regiment, he was com-
of imperative upon the
pelled to make the infliction
officers. With respect to the opinions f Sir J. C. Hobhouse upon
this subject, he ( Sir John Byng) min: state that that
Right Hon. Baronet was as averse now as he had ever .2fen to the
infliction of corporal punishment. The Hon. and Gallant 8ar...71et
then concluded, by stating that he was sure that this grievance
would be soon done away with under the present Government,
the only anxiety being that it might not be abolished so hastily as
to cause danger.
Sir E. CODRINGTON congratulated the House on the altered
tone of the debate upon the present occasion, as they now saw
some prospect of the discussion leading to some practical result.
He agreed with the Honourable and Gallant Baronet that the
officers of the Army and Navy were most anxious to have
corporal punishment done away with. He himself had
often nearly fainted when compelled to witness the infliction of
such punishment.—(Hear.) With respect to the issuing of
a commission, he thought it would be better if it should be com-
posed partly of civil and partly of military men, at least, it was ab-
solutely necessary that there should be some military men upon it.
He complained of the clamour against those officers whose
unpleasant duty it had been to order the infliction of
corporal punishment, however repulsive it might be to their own
feelings—it never occurred to Hon. Members to blame the civil
magistrates for the performance of their duties. He again congra-
tulated the House upon the prospect which was now held out
to them, and expressed a hope that it would soon lead to some
practical result.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM said that the great cause of crime
and insubordination in the Army and Navy was the drunk-
enness that prevailed so generally among the men. If the House
wished not only to do away with corporal punishment, but to the
causes thatgave rise to it, they must endeavour to raise the character
of the men, which could be best done by opening the highest walks
of the army to them, and enabling them, by good conduct and
attention to their duties gradually to rise from the ranks to the office
of commander.
Colonel LEITH HAY said, with reference to the late punish-
ment of private Hutchinson, that the crime of drunkenness could
not, except under peculiar circumstances, be tried by a re-
gimental courtmartial ; it was therefore necessary that he
should be tried by a District Courtmartial. The gallant offi-
cer who had superintended the punishment had, therefore, no op-
tion, but was bound to see that the punishment ordered by the Dis-
trict Courttllartial was carried into effect.
Mr. WILKS expressed a hope that the statements which
had been made to-day would be satisfactory to the public at large.
It was clear that the feelings of the public would not much
longer be outraged by the infliction of corporal punishment,
the result Of svhich had always been to increase crime instead of
diminishing it. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Sheffield,
that they must endeavour to introduce into the army and navy a
superior bddy of men, instead of the refuse of the gaol and- the
wt„,;,,ouse ; and, by encouraging good conduct and honourable
ambition, oen a .I,zrect of rising to a higher station.
Alts; AvßicEity sorry that so many mis-statements
had been ttidcl6 ill thfi ptiblie prints ,:srecting the punishment in-
flicted Upon the soldier tititchitootb
Mr; SINCLAIR Jollied that the infliction of corpora:unish
would be ihithediateli dono away' with, as it was too bad to .7tani
cme!it
a punishment which even thOsd siglin inflicted it could not witness
without disgust and abhorrence.—( Cheers.
After a few words from Sir S. Whalley, Sir T. Treithridge, Mr.
Ashley; Captain Gordon, and Mr. Ruthven,
Mri MACE expressed his gratification at the tone and temper
displayed throughout this debates as it was calculated to effect, more
than any other mode, a satisfactory issue of the question. Hehad made,
from misinformation, a statement of the proportion of the number of
soldiers who had passed through the gaols of the country; it was
not one fifth, but one tenth, and that was a frightful proportion.—
(Hear, hear.) In respect to the coniposition of the Commission
nothing had yet taken place ; documentary and oral evidence had
been collected/ and Government had determined to refer that evi-
dence to a eammission.---(Hear ) It would be formed in such a
manner as would promise a satisfactory result to the country and
the maintenailcc of discipline in the army. The precise mode
ought, in his.opinion, to be •left with Government, at the same time
every suggestion was thankfully received, and information eagerly
sought after. The moral condition and habits of The soldier ought
to be first corrected, and though he did not believe that the army
was more given to drunkenness than any other ,body of men, the
best nieans of removing that vice would not to be lost sight
of.—He was not not -a military person.(Hear, hear.)—
but, he thought they had better get rid of the army altogether, than
star tbv aoldiers to commit outrages upon civil society, or violate
the discipline Cf the camp.—(Hear, hear.) In justice to
the officers of the army, S should say there existed throughout
the service a most all9lts disposition to act in accordance
Lv...e.ir duty,
necessnry to continue mode of -- it should be found
, to do
-nd he would add that govern..
t
is
with public opinion on this subject,
ment would not shrink,
afterdue
pooighinvestigator:.,.men
notwithstanding the odium they might • inc ur Hettr.
Colonel WILLIAMS ,
said that his experience on this subject
began above 50 years
flo • ago, and no man detested the system of
Bogging more than himself, but he feared • ld pctabandoned
i.i is CCM 11Q be
res
peLt to incorrigible Offenders. One great means of
reducing flogging would' be to prevent drunkenness.—(Hoar. )
Colonel EVANS suggested that different Acts of Parliament
peace.
The be made for the times of war and
The petition was then laid upon the table; and it being three
o'clock, the SPEAKER left the Chair.