The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-20 00:00:00

minds of all impartial persons with respect to the remedy
which ought to be applied. Since he last brought the
question under the consideration of the House, be had en-
d savoured to make himself acquainted with the opinions
of persons of all classes and of all political parties. For
the information of English Members, he would quote from
the report of the Committee upon the subject of Grand
Juries in Ireland a description of the system. The Right
Honourable Gentlethan then read a passage, which stated
that the Irish Grand Juries were intrusted with the civil
administraiion of counties, having to defray the expense of
the police force, the maintenance of prisons, &c.--that they
had the power of directing public works, such as the
making of roads, and the building and repairing of bridges
to be undertaken, and of appointing persons to execute
them—that they levied the taxation which was necessary
to defray the expenses incurred for these objects from
the occupants of the land, the collectors of which were
armed with the sovereign power of distress. This short
statement would show English Members the broad
points of difference between the Irish Grand Juries and the
Grand Juries of England. In looking for a remedy it was
necessary to bear in mind that the Irish Grand Juries pos-
sessed a civil as well as a criminal jurisdiction. They
were summoned, like the grand juries of England, by the '
high sheriff, but, unlike those juries, they possessed com-
plete control over the whole internal local taxation of Ire-
land, amounting at the present moment to about 940,0001.
He was wrong in saying that they possessed complete con-
trol over the whole of that sum, for a considerable portion
of it was specially appropriated by Acts of Parliament :
and with respect to that they exercised only ministerial
authority. The chief grievance, however, was the power
which the grand juries possessed of makine'
compulsory
a-sessments for the purpose of local expenditure This
was a part of the system which not only afforded facili-
ties, but actually held out temptation for corrupt prac-
tices. It was true, as he had before observed, that the
jurors wete selected by the high sheriff, but in the exer-
cise of their power they were in no degree controlled by
the check of public opinion. Their proceedings were
carried on in a private room, removed from the eye of the
public, and the reasons for or against a particular pre-
sentment were not known or canvassed. There was thus
no check upon expenditure, and in additien to this, each
grand jury had the power of dividing itself into individual
committees, by means of which it frequently happened
that individuals possessed opportunities of promoting their
own interests to the injury of the public. Another in-
convenience attending the system was, that grand juries
had not sufficient time to discharge their duties in crimi-
nal cases effectively. Those juries had never, be believed,
been charged with acting corruptly in criminal cases.
The principal objections to the grand juries in Ireland
might be stated as follows :—1 sr, that they were not
acquainted with the practical details of the works to be
undertaken ; 2d, that they were without responsibility,
and uncontrolled by the check of public opinion in the
discharge of their duties; and, lastly, that the sys-
tem afforded opportunities for corrupt practices. Un-
fortunately, he might say that it was not uncommon for a
gentleman in Ireland, by his interest with a grand jury, to
get them to sign a presentment for the making of a road,
or the execution of some other public work, on or near
his estate, and then to appoint his own labourers, or infe-
rior tenants, to perform the work, by means of whose
wages thus obtained he was able to get a better rent for
his land than he otherwise could procure.—(Hear, hear.)
Those were points to which it was particularly necessary
to direct attention in framing a remedial measure. Two
years ago he had introduced a Bill for consolidating the
laws re'ating to grand juries, which were to be found in
an immense number of statutes. On the present occasion
e would pursue a different course, by making the altera-

tions first, and consolidating the laws hereafter. This was
DO party question.—(Hear, hear.) It had been suggested
that it was necessary to separate the civil from the cri-
minal jurisdiction exercised by grand juries ; but he was
not prepared to deprive them of the whole of the con-
trol which they at present exercised in civil matters.
He was free to admit that it would be desirable, if practi-
cable, that a more general system of grand jury representa-
tion should prevail, hut on inquiry he found the circum-
st inces, local and otherwise, of each county in Ireland
were so different, that a general system of representation
was hardly practicable. He proposed, however, to make
a considerable step towards it, by making it mandatory on
the high sheriff—the officer in whom the selection of grand

jurors was ves,ed—to begin his list with one juror from
each barony in the county, the number to be filled up af-
terwards according to circumstances. Then, a great and
frequent complaint of the grand jury system in Ireland
was the secrecy in which it discharged its functions. He
proposed as a remedy that every presentment should be
openly and publicly discussed in open court—(Hear)—
that the grounds of its being adopted or rejected should
be openly discussed and canvassed before the assembled
county.—(Hear, hear.) Though he did not propose to

management of the public money which they already pos-
sessed, yet he would introduce such provisions of the Bill
as would operate as a check or control upon the manage•
ment. An attempt had been made at an efficient control
of this sort by the 59th George 111., commonly known as
the Road Sessions Act, but he would not stop to inquire
how far it proved effective, as he intended to repeal its
provisions and substitute others in their stead, which
would prove effective.—(Hear.) With respect to the se-
parate consideration of such presentments as would he
chargeable on the county at large, and such as would he
chargeable on particular districts or baronies, lie would
propose that on a fixed day all the Magistrates should
meet in special sessions, for the purpose of determining
the mei its of presentments, and that such as should he
negatived in this special sessions should be considered finally
disposed of, while those approved of should wait to be
confirmed by the grand jury. Hon. Members would
perceive that this was an approximation to the English
system ; indeed, he trusted that in the progress of society
in Ireland, the Government would be enabled to assimi-
late the systems of both countries in that and other par-
ticulars.—(Hear.) His plan would obviously give the
grand jury a confirming power over presentments—and,
of course, a negativing one—but not the power of re con-
sidering a presentment which had been negatived at
special sessions. His next provision would, be per-
suaded himself, be felt to be a salutary improvement
on the present Irish grand jury system, by giving
the class of farmers and higher rate-payers, who were
daily increasing in wealth, intelligence, and influence,—
affording thereby a pleasing proof of the increasing pros-
perity of Ireland,—hy giving this respectable class of per-
sons a direct control over the public expenditure in their
respective districts. It might he said that in this parti•
cular he might have gone further, but he feared the adop-
tion of the principle of election in civil presentments would
tend to much profitless confusion. He proposed that one
of this class should be chosen from each barony, or half-
barony, as it might be, to sit with and assist the magis-
trates in disposing of the district presentments—(Hear)—
and that they should not be less in number than half of
the members of the grand jury present.—(Hear.) He
had stated that the proceedings of the grand jury should
in future be conducted with the utmost publicity—(Hear)
—and that with them should lie the determining the expe-
diency and cost of public works. As a supplement to
this salutary provision of publicity he proposed that the
grand jury should be compelled to sec, pt of the lowest
tender to carry a presentment into effect, provided it
afforded the necessary security.—(Hear.) This led him
to the question, was the principle of contract the best for
executing these county public works? Ile had consulted
very many Irish Members on the subject, and, amidst the
greatest contrasts of opinion on some points, found they all
agreed in declaring that the contract system was the best.—
(Hear.) He, therefore, would adopt it. He would prefer
the machinery of control over the county expenditure by the
appointment of an officer in each county—an engineer, to
be approved of by a body of engineers, whose responsible
duty it would be to attend the special sessions and
the grand juries, and report on the expediency, cost,
and progress of the several works in the county.—
(Hear.) Instead of the present absurd system of oaths,
no money should be paid till this scientific officer had
certified that the work bad been completed in a workman-
like manner—(Hear)—and no work should be undertaken
at the public cost, until be had reported on its expediency.
--(Hear.) By this means the actual workman would
have the advantage of a scientific overseer, and the country
would at a little cost be insured against a useless expendi-
ture of its money.—(Hear.) It was, perhaps, unneces-
sary to add that this officer should, of course, have no
local interest—say as a contractor—to promote, and of
course, no interest whatever in the work he should have
to report upon. Another provision of his intended Bill
appeared to him one of no little importance—he meant
that by which the country cess would be levied, not, as
at present, on the occupying tenant, but the landlord. He
was aware that no legislative power could prevent altoge-
gether agreements between landlords and tenants in refe-
rence to contracts for presentments, but this provision
would materially check its abuse. The Bill would also
contain provisions under which no payment should be paid
for county work unless in money, not in goods, and that the
accounts should he open at all times to the county surveyor,
whose accounts, again, should be open to the Grand Jury.
Though the office of county treasurer did not properly fall
within the scope of the Bill, be had ventured to guard
against the present undeniable abuses to which it had given
rise (discounting, and trafficking, and jobbing with the
county money, for example), by proposing a clause under