The Sun.
London, England, 1802-02-09 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the
Committee of Supply—which was read a first time.
On the question fir the second reading,
Mr. MARTIN said, he .took the liberty, in the
Committee, to say a few words relative to the Ac-
counts then under consideration. What he then
said appeared to excite the displeasure of the Right
1-lon. Gentleman over the way (the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER), as well as of other Hon. Gen-
tlemen. There was no man more anxious than him_
self not to give offence, but it was his way to state
his opinion, and speak his mind openly and freely ;
be was extremely sorry, at the same time, if he had
given any offence to the Right Hon. Gentleman,
ibr whom he had the highest respell; and esteem.
With regard to the Paper containing an account of
the distribution of the sum of z,000,0601. he had
not altered his opinion, and he was sure it could
not meet with the approbation of the Gentlemen of
that House ; he wished it could be read in every
Market-place in the Kingdom. He was content to
bear patiently whatever remarks might be made up_
on his conduct, whilst he shielded himself by an
honest discharge of his duty. It appeared by, the
manner in which the War had been supported, as if
we had no Navy, or else why resort for aid to the
Forces of the German Princes ? He should always
he happy to give. Ministers his support, whenever
he conceived they deserved it, but he deprecated
that sort of negative support which had been given
to Ministers, by some Gentlemen, who, if such an
Account had been presented at a former period,
would have testified, in the strongest terms, their
disapprobation.
The CHANCELLOR .of the EXCHEQUER
Laid,• the Hon. Gentleman had expressed in terms
extremely gratifying to himself his concern at
having excited his (the CHANCELLOR of the Ex_
CH supposed displeasure...He assured that
Hon. Gentleman, that he did not mean to express
any such displeasure. He could not, however, help
feeling some em'otion when .an Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Ronsox) thought proper to bring forward
a charge against His Majesty's Ministers of scan-
dalous peculation, and when another Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. MARTIN) arose to support those asser..
tions which the former Hon. Gentleman" had brought
forward without giving a 'moment's time to His
Majesty's Ministers to answer the charges and in-
*inuations which had been. urged agalait them.

The accounts had been laid before the Hodse, but
the papers containing the account' of the distri_
bution of the sum of 2,000,0001. granted by the
vote of credit was not referred to the Committee,
the only paper that was referred to the Committee
being the account of the Extraordinary Expenses of
the Army, not provided for by Parliament. , The
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ro,BsoN), however, with
that liberal allowance from the Committee, which
was generally granted to Gentlemen, and which he
wished always to be granted, commented not only
upon the account which Was a&ually refereed to them,
but also upon those papers which were not before the
Committee. He did think that the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. MARTIN) need not express his gratitude
to the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. RossoN) for his
exertions, and join with him in inculpating His
Majesty's Ministers, before he had heard the answer
of those Ministers. The Hon. Gentleman had
said, he wished the paper containing the distribu-
tion of the vote of credit of z,000,0001. to be read
in every Market-place in the kingdom ; he (the
CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER) also « ished it,
might be read in every Market-place in the King-
dom with comments, but not those of the Hon.
Gentleman. Whilst he was upon his legs, 'he
wished to correft an error which-had arisen rela-
tive to the Navy Del4t, the excess of which for the'
year .180 1, beyond that of the year a 800, amounted
to 367,0001. This .excess had arisen from various
causes, which could not be foreseen by him in June
last, -when he stated the amount as likely to be less
than that of the preceding year. The expences
attending the Egyptian Expedition, and the Com_ .
missariat, for which he was not at all blameable, it
, being impossible for him to foresee them, nor had
they been _foreseen by the most experienced Offi-
ters-, even by Sir RALPH ABERCOMBY himself,
whose estimate of the expences of that Expedition
fell short of the sums which were actually - wanted
for that service, had materially contributed to this
excess, as had also those increased expences which
it was well known had unavoidably arisen in the ,
viaualling department of the Naval Service. Had.
not the sum arising from the vote of credit been
partly diverted from its intended purpose to be
applied to the payment of those.increased.expences,
the Navy Debt for 180 I would, as he stated it, -have
fallen short of that of 1800. All these points were,
however, still opera for examination, and still sub-
jed to the opinion of those Gentlemen who wished
to comment upon them. He trusted.however, that
no Gentleman would make a general charge against '
His Majesty's Ministers,-but lay his finger at once
upon the item to which he objected. He wished
the Accounts to be examined ; it was the duty of
the Members of that House to investigatelhem all ;
his olje&ion was to general charges being made
against His Majesty's Ministers, instead of specific
objedions,
Mr. MARTIN and the CHANCELLOR Of the Ex-
CHEQUER severally explained.
Mr. T 1 E RNEY said, he should be sorry to
trouble the House with many observations, bat the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. MARTIN) must forgive him
if he could not give way to those jealousies of His
Majesty's' Ministers, which some Gentlemen seem-
ed inclined to entertain, whilst he saw no cause for
any such jealousy. He was sure his Hon. Friend
would not say, that -mere suspicion was to authorize
an Hon. Gentleman to reject, without a close and
sedulous examination, Accounts, that were bfot,ght
before Parliament. Besides, in the Account before

the House, was included Money which was to be
considered as impressed for certain Services, and of
which an account was still to be given. With re-
spe6t to the •Army axtraordinaries, the House now
stood in a different situation to what it formerly
did :—formerly the Army Extraordinaries were not
known until the amount of the actual expence in-
curred was brought before Parliament ; now it
- was known that there would be Army Extra.
ordinaries, and they were provided for accordingly.
The late CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had
altered the mode formerly adopted by bringing
down an estimate at the commencement of the
Session, of the Army Extraordinaries for 'the en.
suing year, of the distribution of which sum an
account was afterwards laid before Parliament. He
knew of no method of discussing the Army Ex-
traordinaries until they were brought before Par-
liament. He should be extremely sorry, however,
that it should be thought that he was satisfied with
the accounts upon the Table, he expressed himself;
on the contrary, dissatisfied with them ; and that
it was the duty of the Members of tbat House to
watch over the expenditure of the Public money,
with the most extreme care and attention, there
could be no doubt: There was one article in the ac-
count, which he could not pass by without ani-
maticersion, this was with respeci to coals going to
Gibraltar ; it appeared that the demurrage upon
this article amounted to 61. per chaldron, a charge
so enormous, as to require a stria investigation.
He thought that a waste of the Public Money
evidently appeared in these accounts, and that the
finances of the Country were not managed in that
economical manner as a man would manage his
own private concerns. Having said thus much of
the-. Accounts, he would say, that he believed that
many. of the sums contained in them, belonged to
the late Administration, and were now brought
forward for the first time. He was sorry not to see
the late Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place.
—The Estimates of the Army Extraordinaries
brought forward by the late Chancellor of the Ex-

chequer, were generally found renmrkably accurate,
the actual amount of the expenditure seldom ex-
ceedino• the estimate by more than 2or 30001, It
now became a question whether he did not keep
back sums, which if brought forward as they ought
to have been, would have considerably exceeded in
the amount, the estimates he formed for it now
appeared when we had arrived at a happy period of
Peace, , and the Accounts were in consequence
wound up, that the present Chancellor of the Ex-

chequer ;vas saddled with the odium of -bringing
forward Accounts, for not half the sums contained
in which, he was responsible. Why did not the
late Chancellor 'of the Exchequer come down and
state than those sums contained in the Accounts

which were paid for- services during his. Adinini_
sttation were his, and take the responsibility or
them upon himself ? He wante4 dates to the Ac-
cuunts that he might distinguislJbetween the cx.

pences incurred by the late and present Administra.
tibti'. He wanted to know when the different Bills
had been drawo, which it appeared had been paiby
the Treasury. There were several items relative
to subsidies ; why were not these brought forward
by the late CHANCELLOR of the Ex-cllEnuEß
• This deserved the attention of the House. It ap-
peared now that 'most enormous sums had been kept
back by the late Administration, and had been.
suffered to press upon, and burden the finances of
' this Country until a new Administration were cm-
. pelled • ) bring them forward. It was formerly the
custom.to vote'the Army Extraordinaries after an.
examination of 'the different articles, but, lately.a.
pratlie had arisen, to which he objected, of bring-
ing. forward lumping sums, instead of individual
articles. It was true the articles were previously
examined by the Commissioners of Accounts, but
he did not like that the power of Pailiarnent should
be given up to Commissioners of Accounts ; was
the duty of the Members of that House to in-
vestigate for themselves, and ground their vote
upon that investigation If Gentlemen would now
investigate a little, they would find that a sum
of 25,000,0001., must now be brought forward,
of the expenditure of which no account' whatever'
had been given by the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CHEQUER. He thought that a commisAon ought
to be appointed to investigate the expenditure of
that stun, when perhaps strange-things. would come
our. All he- could do at present was, to express ,
a wish for farther information relative to the Army ,
Extraordinaries ; he knew this was not the day on
which he could disows them. He did not know
whether any-Gentleman would be induced to move
forsuch a commissi:-:n, but an alarming expendituri:
had been going on, which had not been 'communi-
cated to Parliament, and he was anxious to have
the accounts of the late Administration thoroughly
investigated. He assurer; the- Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. MARTIN), that he knew nothing of -negative
support ; he supported the Right Hon. Gentleman
(the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER), because
he was convinced that Right Hon... Gentleman was
economical in the expenditure of the public money;
beyond that his support could not be asked by that
Right Hon. Gentleman: He should continue to
support His Majesty's Ministers, until he saw suffi-
cient reason tb alter his opinion.
Mr. STEELE said; Lis Right Hon;Yriend (Mr.
PITT) was not present to answer the accusations-of
the Hon. Gentleman as to the expenditure, of the
Public Money, but he could assure the House, that
the Account alluded to by. the Hon. Gentleman,
which was now before the House, was, as every
other had been, framed in as clear a manner, as
the nature of the materials of which it was corn-
posed would admit,. and the nature of the respedive
services was as clearly, defined as it possibly could
be. He did not know whether the Hon. Gentleman
meant to convey a censure against the Officers whO
made out the Account, but the fag was, that every
sum was passed at the Pay-Office and countersigned
at the Treasury ; nor was any sum conveyed into,
the shape of a Warrant until it had undergone
most careful examination. . With respea to the
article of coals alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. TIRNEr),,he could not say but that the sum .
was large, but surely it was, too much for that Hon.

Gentleman to say, :that the sum - was too large,
without at the same time adverting to the expence
of insurance and a variety of cat.iies which must

tend to increase the expense of conveying coals to
Gibraltar, very materially. He did not think the
Hon. Gentleman had established any one of his ob..
jeaions. The Account of the Army Extraordinaries
was made out from the 2,ith Dec. z 800, to the 24th
Dec. z 8o r, accorditzg to the express direaion at an
Al of Parliament. It was clear that the sums con-
tained in that Accour t ..vere paid within the twelve-
months. It might be said, that the dates ought to be
given 'to the sums paid, but that could be' of little
importance. Was there any ground for supposing

thiit there was any concealment of expendiitire on
the part of the late Administration, or that the late
Chancellor of the Exchequer ever intended to
throw any. odium upon the present Ministry ?—He
would say, in the absence of his Right Hon. Friend,
that no such suggestion ever operated on his mind.
Services :had been fairly brought forward in the
accounts for which warrants had been regularly
made out. He was ready to admit, at the same time,
that sums might remain due at the close of the year
tBOO, which were paid in the course of the year
180 r. This was the case with respe& to the Sub-
sidy to the Landgrave of Hesse, who sent a special;
Minister in the year 1800 to advocate his claims,
about which there: had been some dispute, but
which were at length settled in the year 1801. If
the Hon. Gentleman supposed any other reason why
they were ,ont.sooner settled, he was mistaken,—
With resped to the KING of SARDINIA,. 100,0001.
out of the 200,0001. the amount o hiS SubsidY, had
been paid to that Monarch, as was stated on a former
evening by the Right Hon. Gentleman (the CHAN.
FL LOR of the Ex on Etzt Ex) ; but in consequence of
the misfortunes which it was well known befel that
Prince, the remaining sum was withheld until last
year, when it was agreed to be paid by instalments,
as had been stated on a former evening. He did
not recollet any other sum in the accounts which
was liable to the same objection. As to the suppo.;
sitime of the Hon. Gentleman, -that his Right Hon.
Friend had kept back sums which had been expended, •
and had not•brought them before Parliament, it was
entirely without foundation. It seemed, however, that
his Right Hon. Friend was charged with altering
the established mode of btinging forward the Army
Extraordinaries ; he did so ; he found it to be the
general sense of the House that a previous estimate.
should be brought forward, instead of voting them
after the expCnce had been incurred ;• and. he in,
consequence adopted that plan, the sum was voted in
the first instance, b 1 the application. of which . his
Right Hon. Friend afterwards brought for Ward a
sufficient explanation. An Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
ROBs9N)lbad made a suggestion in the Committee,
which, had that. Hon. Gentleman examined the At-

count to which he alluded, he never would hive
made; he 'had however annexed. to one of -the

articles. in •thc Account, .a meaning with which

every one must be struck. Finding a" paynien; of
zoo,oool. to Lord MINto, the Hon. Gentleinan

would not ask for w.hat yor?ose this money vlits
paid, he would not wait for an explanatiOny but

Immediately chose to consider it as a prov:si°ll,af
a retired Minister ; surely ibis was not rile .W 1
le'
in which Accounts were to be examincd• red,
Accounts were thoroughly and fairly investigaili,
then let diem be approved or condemned ; " boa
cers presented false and garbled Accounts, let
,dt
he accused ; but surely the Accounts should that.
first fairly investigated. He felt anxious fc,as;;vel)
..office. to whioliohc-had-the honour-to,belbtagY. , out
as fbr other offices whose duty it was to make to
Accounts for the purpose of being presented e'-
that House. With. respea to the itenasof the
ie
count which had proceeded from his 01-ce' •or;
should be always happy to give every: inforilljtl2,
in his power. He had, in his official situaticli
log
Paymaster, no discretion with resped to the t
paid, it being merely his-duty to pay then!; ljpteri
the same. time, he could not suppose for a
that any of ;them "were improperly „tor
respet indeed to the Bills- drawn by rise
Paymasters, there were certain tegulations tht
they must conform, in order that their Bills 11)15rei
be honoured, in which the Paymasterhad a d'siclose
tionary power, as he might refuse to honour of
Bills. He was not aware of any other article
00
required explanation, but he must repeat that 110
sum could be stated to be improperly paid.
Mr. TJ ERNE Y explained: fe
STEEL, said, that he was confident ti
e
was not a single instance of that having h'rP:sug,
which the Hon. Gentleman had'expressCd a Feod,
%ion of having lipppened, and upon which .i'ecoso
thought fit to censure the late Chancellor Ac..
Exchequer, namely, 'that 'of withholding' itn)'. by
count in such •a manner as to deceive Parliautelli`ooe
concealing it, at the- time 'when it ought tc.
been disclosed. There was no such instance. 0)
Accounts could not he ready when the setv;cretsjoy
which they related, came to be made iip,"and
tit 0
were necessarily delayed. on that account bl,
Was confident there hadr:been no unnecessary ticol,se
nor any attempt whatever to conceal frOm the, ioli
Accounts when they could fairly have been e.'fi
The CHANCELLOR of the EXC HEQV -.51,e0
that with reference to the item which had .oc
commented
_upon by. the-Hon. Gentleman 01)re..,
to-him (Mr. TIERNEY), for .Freiglif,.
st Dell'A",'l7,o I
Insurance, &c. it should he underood that
not follow atilt governmeni• was citargeahle
either delay, 'negligence, or profusion, because,: to
sum•was so large. The delay.might
adverse-winds, the want of convoy,'ana reani,iogf r
causes which .create length. of voyage hot 14.
Gentleman in the House was desirous to: have
particulars of the Account upon this head of o
diture, or any other, and should call for
perfatly ready to afford every information
power. ." He should have no hesitation whate' '
• abr. i
giving, it. A great dea.l. of observation itYvo LT,
made on Accounts at the time of winding tine not
‘vh,ich was the case preseKt.; •but „there, waso"
single itern.'which it Would 'not be a pleasurie
to explain as far as he was able • upon ,ber
-
confident it would appear in the result that 'l'olo
negligence nor profusion could be fairly irluievet:
to His Majesty's Ministers, in any part
of the Public Expenditure. tit
Air. NICHOLLS said, that no Member of
House deserved, to have more regard give' 1 ft's
opinion than an Hon. Gentleman opo„siac et. ty.
(Mr. MARTIN). He was Welt known "e'llieC
have given his opinion upon Party motives',alo
was there ever a man, he believed, who Oral- l;t1$
opinion with more integrity or sagacity,
lieved him to have been almost always rigl't,,at
judgment; and his independence was such, t,7dbo
man ever knew what his opinion was, or•tv'utill
. ,rcti 1,1
upon any sUbjea in debate 'until he deity,- '
that House.-Such esteem, Mr, NictioL;;Der,"
had he for the sentiments of that 11,11. I\`er
that he never could differ from him witll°
I,`,;loitlf'e
trusting himself ; but although this was his
be must still say, that whatever profusi°''...,
appear in the Accounts now before the 140''''.0"orl'i
CH ANC EL LOR of the EXC EQU ER was 110 t 01,4
able for any of it. The expellee" of the art'; pt,
appeared -under the head of tae,`" Army ofl,.s,'‘lii
L),I)
he agreed was enormous. Egeptian
ge
tion, however, was not a measure for 3C/
present CHANCELLOR' of the 14:xoncour-g.
countable—he received it from his predeceia IP;
All the Extraordinaries, as they appeared
Account, were moniesadvanecd on accolifitleul",
the Expedition was commenced—all the 21„;ad,
of which were not yet come home. The of r',
don having commenced, the CHANG E L;(*)14:„ t!1.0
Excx EQUER could not prudently do otherwlo'rt t'
'e
the Bills that were drawn to suPP'etfYi
measure§ taken to carry the Expedition int?";
In this Situation, the CHANCELLOR of the
QUE R could do no otherwise than he did, 'l:Anitt,
he could not prudently do otherwise, for.;oal"g
mischief might have been the effect of his
ing supplies : that is, infinite tnisehief inigef„ 13°j
followed, not only ' w the Expedition
also to the Service in general, if the Tre3su.:ee,
said, " these Bills are so enormous that we c. fsl',
pay them.'"—Not only the purposes of tear C",e
ditioh might have been frustrated, but
IR
'manders in every part of the Service Wo`ll, 11°0 .a
been afterwards afraid of drawing‘Bills at 8) sly
ever essential- the Service might be for
Bills were drawn. He therefore was most "
of opinion, that these Bills being draoll' co'
ought to. have been accepted.--Now, " eI4V
not blame the present CHANCELLOR of tlke iotirly
Qv It for the Expedition itself, not for
the Bills drawn for the purpose of defr,iTill,
pence of it, he could not olatne h;tri laof reii
still he thought there.ought to he an ac;Q ;col
dered of this business.--,When this account fley
dered, and if the House should see the -"o toot
been profusely expended, be hoped the
.1 Jol' eyr '11,4
say so.—lf it should appear that the '°o;l4P,'o,
not been profusely, but had all been "1;31.,c 'oil
laid out, he hoped this Expedition won)" 4 %4.16
tic
-son to mankind upon Expeditions, for it .`,
vi„, ofheh,
him -a matter of doubt, whether, upon Veenle
t
of • that. subjed, it would Not have of r.,cP
ter for this Country, if that P'lrt,ile 1,13.0
world bad been suffered to remain in
of the French, than by addi, g, as it 11,asosOtria
such a load to '-the burthens of this
,'..-
Novvo as to the iuestiaa of support ”ii

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--, to
oblerve, that atiother day Was to 0. ap-
pointed for the discussion of that subject. On the
question cf Support to the late Minister, he must
oh3erve, that when it
should b came before the House,, he.
ready, as ever he was, to censure the con-
(lua of that Gentleman ; and he 'thought the Expe-
dition to Egypt, particully in refusg to
.assent to
the French evacuating that Country, ina
measure de.:
serving censure, notwithstanding the vidory by
which it was followed. He supported the present
CHANCELLoa of the EXCHEQUER,
as the Minister
of a pacific System, when he should ceaSe to be the
Minister _of. a pacific System, and when he should
think his measures ceased to be measures that were
advantageotts to his.Countrv, he should be as ready
to attack him, as he wa, now willing to support
him, but while he thought his measures were ad-
iiantageous to. his Country, while lie was convinced
his intentions were good, he should have support
hifrom him ; nor would he-be desirous of increasing •
s difficulties, by captious objeaions' upon minor
points. This he said from a conviEtion that diffi-
culties must occur in the pr4ent condition of things,
although he hoped we should be able to surmount
them.
. _

MP. STURGES alluded to an observation made
by Mr. TIERNEY, relative to a C
sent out to. the West Indies 'l to inquire into certain
ommission to be
Expenditures there, and
oserved, the lion.
Gentleman's objection to
the conduC"t at
ofth the . late
Administration upon that account, in not having
adopted any such measure,-was hastily formed, for
unless he was mistaken, a Commission of the same
sort W 43 agreed upon in the year 'Soo, and an Ad
of passed to empower His-Majesty's then
inisters to issue
which is now a Commission similar to that
about to issue, and precisely for the
purpose of inquiring into certain Expenditures in
the West Indies. He therefore hoed t would see that the' Hon. entleman's imputation
he House
G p
against the late Administration was in this respeft
ilLfounded.'
.
The CibINCELLOP of the EXCHEQUER
said, it really did . not occur to him, when he last
had the honour of addressing the Committee, to
state, there. had been such an Aft, as that adverted
to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who spoke
last. And indeed it was right, he should Observe
that the Committee now about to be appointed for
the purpose, of inquiring into certain Expenditures
in the \Vest Indies, is founded on the Attt of Pat%
Lament to which that Hon.. and Leaned Gentle-
man referred. • -
Mr. W. DU:VD AS said, that the lion. Gentle_
Lions in
man (Mr. TrEltNtY) still adhereci.t6 his Observa-: the l the charger
O ,whi
Chancelich he had exhibited against
ate
of the Exchequer, that of de-
laying accounts which ought to have been presented
before the House. Upon that' he must take 'leave
to observe it Would have made that attack u bt) as' generous generous to have
upon that Right,Hun. Gentleman
tions
in his presence. esence. Allusions were made. to transac-
t year 5799, which if that Right Hon.
diatel
Gentleman were present would be explained inure_
knewthat Rig
He believed that no person who ever
he to
Hon. Gentleman, suspeeted the in_
grity of his character.. But if any Member of
that House had any thing to say
.against him,,lee,
accuse him in his presence, and-- not in his ab-
sence. He could not trust himself with discoursing
long upon this topic,
.for he felt a warmth Upon it,
Which might lead him to use irregular expressions::
tiffice it to say, that it brought to his recollection
sentiments that were near and dear to his heart.
-77-13ut the friends 'of the pacific: system had told the
House the day Was enuring when he should charge
the late Chancellor of the'Exchequer with he knew
not what. He was, Exchequer
' •t
believe, that when. nough to
that day tome,
the
answer
~ ,
of that tkignt Hon. Gentleman would be as satisfac-
tory as others he had ' made upon other occasions,
when cavils had been entertained by, some indivi-
duals against his conclua. He did not mean to treat
Hun. Gentleman behind
lightly the talents of
the
him (Mr. NicHous), but he could not help ad_
miring the zeal of the Minister's new. Allies; for
much of the business of this day, he perceived, was
not to discuss the matter regularly before the
800 le---it was rather to rehearse the Creed of the
..Ministers new Allies—Prlludiaw to Mr. Tiervey
and Mr. NichollsA—The Hon. Gentleman opposite
to him wished the late 'CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
outooEit's condo& to be reprobated, while he
professed to support the measures of the present
A, inister. Now, Mr. DuN DAS said, he wished to
Inow, whether that Hon. gentleman expeft I theet
Present Minister to court his approbation, or the
approl-sation of any man or set of men; at the ex.
, Pence of the Charafter of the late CHANC EL LoR of
Exc
8-rQuP. it ? No, however powerful the assistance
4131 the'e Gentiemen who were the Minister's new
Allies, might-be„ upon such terms he was sure the
.Inepresent Minister would scorn to receive it.—As to
observations which were thrown out by an
4ubj-tion. Gentleman heldnd bins (Mr. :Ni c It o 1. t.s) on the,
eta of the. Expedition to Egypt, he should say
presc4 word or two almost instantly. He woold not.
ribe to Gentlemen the course they were to take
in discussing subjeds in that HOuse. Debates were
free, and they ought to be so. One Hon. Gentle.'
man (and r
had been pleased to call the
Account laid before the House, of certain Expeodi-
tiure, ~ a scandalous Account.".--He could not help
the (Tither ; the use of it was mere matter c( taste.,
Anotnr!rHon. Gentleman had said, that if this Ac-
Rount was read in A,Tv 0 1,11, I meet w every Market in England, it
ith scorn and indignation—Scorn and
indig nation !—Why ? What did - theSe items refer
to ?—They referred to the proSecution of a
War
which had been voted necessary by tha by
a vast tnajority—eteemed necessary by t House,
of
every too of the mo 99 our st intelligent people in this
Countryalie wished to speak tenderly on this
subjeft now, because -the War was at an end, and
he too, in his turn, had a right to saye was
friend to the Pacific
System ; but it was, al
War car_a tied on by us for every thing that was or could be
dear- to English Men. - It was thought necessary to
endeavour to Curb the ambition of France at that
time, and therefore a powerful Continental Confe-
deracy was formed for the purpose of driving France
'within- its ancient limits ; and he wouldask,-whether
iafter all that had past in Parliainent upon this sub
ea; it could be said to be decent in an indiVi-
dual out of a small body of men called the,Mino-

thy, to tell the House that the items of expence in
carrying on such a War, could not be read without
Scorn and indignation ? After the War was over,
(at which no man rejoiced, Mr. DuisroAs said more
than he did)—he did not think it proper to say more
on this head of the discussion of this night. Now,.
as to the subjea of . the Expedition to Egypt, on
which he said he should say a few words, and he
assured the House they should be a few.—Did the'
Hon. Gentleman who to-night foUnd fault with
that Expedition, and who professed to, be such a
friend to Peace, imagine that if that lExpe,dition
had not taken place, Peace would have been obtain-
ed? The Hon. Gentleman thought he .4 yd found,:
out, that is, he had persuaded himself, Abut ,if we
considered the interests of this Country in their true
light, it would have been Ur better. for us to have
left Egypt in the hands of the French, than for us
to have entailed on ourselves the expence of that Ex-
pedition. Did that Hon. Gentleman recollect that we
had any interest to.protea in India ? And, if he
did so recolie6l, did he believe that our Indian pos-
sessions would have been in the same state of secu-
rity as they are at present, if the Egyptian Expedi-
tion had not been undertakeo ? Or, to use the very
words of the Hon. Gentleman, if it had been suf.
fered to remain in the hands of the French ? The
. Hon. Gentleman might say so ; but would he be
able to find another man in England, who under-
stood the interest of his Couritry in India, to say so
with him ?He apprehended not. Cavils were made
at the. expence of that Expedition to Egypt,,--Mini-
sters were not to blame-for that; for it was thought
by tke niOst experienced Officers, and those whose
knowledge qualified them best to form opinions
upon it, that the resistance of the French to our
arms there would not have been great.--Sir RALPH
AB ERCRONIBY himself, of whom no Briton could
speak.without admiration,,thooght that the first blow
by us would have been decisive there—that the mo-
ment of the first assault would have been the decisive
moment of vitory. It appeared otherwise—rein-
forcements became necessary--reinforcements were
sent, and the British Arms were crowned with
glory. This was attended with expence—was that
expence wonderful ? It procured us Peace. We
were. all happy at that event, and he owned it was
surprizing to him, that. this article, above all others,
was made the subject of animadversion.
Mr. M.4RTIN said; that nothing he had heard,
had yet in the least. altered his opinion orythe• topics
which had been discused to-nighr,
Mr. TIERNEY begged leave to say'i word or
two on the extraordinary attack which, he said, had
just been made upon him, by the Hon. Member' op-
posite to him (Mr. W. DusznAs): His crime was
only that of expressing a great readiness to support
the present. Administration ; and which, in spite of
the intemperance of some of its triends, he would
support, while its measures appeared to him to be
what they should be. Whether the Hon. Gen:le-
mon was pleased.or nor, he could not tell, but out
of doors, Mr. TIERNEY thought the disapproba.
tiori of that Honourable: Member would .be a
feather in his cap. As to his uttering insinuations
.agairist the late CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
he would only refer to the recolledlionof the House,
whether he did not guard his expression, And avoid
the use of a single, word that might be supposed to
refleft on the personal integrity of the Iate'CuAN-
eELLOW of the EXCHEQUER—He had no intention
of uttering any such word, or, of conveying any
such idea. All he had said, was, that Accounts
had been kept back when then they ought, ro have
been brought forward, and that he persisted in.—.
What it is that I have done," said Mr. TIER-
NEY, " to offend the. Right Hon. Gentleman, I do
not know ; and, he will pardon me, if I say, I do
not much care. I have said that I will support
Administration. He is an experienced man in these
things, and understands them; but for a young begin-
ner, as I am, I think I may say I have met with rather
harsh treatment. If it is to be understood, that no man
is to support Administration but such as will rea

dily eat every former word, if necessary, and
swallow every sentiment which may be uttered in
this House by those who possess power in .Govern_
ment ; that none shall be allowed to support Ad-
ministration, but those who can readily praise
whom they have been accustomed to attack—who

can recant every public sentiment they ever ut-
tered, renounce every public profession they ever
made, then I am not fit to support either this or any
other Administration—but in as much as I think a

man may fairly support Administration, without that
species of flexibility—in as much as I think, that
in the hodr of danger or emergency, an Administra-
tion, whose professed principles 1 approve, deserve
support, the present Administration shall have my
cordial support while it continues to aft upon, those
principles ; and I shbuld hope that my conduti will
not be misconstrued, nor that I shall be subjeCt to
blame, and until I hear it pronounced from the lips
of some person of higher authority than that of the
Right. Hon. Gentleman, that I am liable to censure,
I shall remain satisfied."

The SECRETARY at WAR explained the cause
the charge of the item in the account of Coals
sent to Gibraltar, which he justified, and professed
a readiness to give any further information to any
Gentleman who should require it.
Mr. ROI4S'ON said, that he had, on a former
Occasion, called the account before the House a
scandalous account ; he was still of opinion that the
account was a scandalous account.

The SPEAKER said, that in the course of dis-
cussion on this .subjea he had felt some uneasiness.
He had always a wish that Debate should be free
and liberal, nor did he wish to interfere at every
little lapse of expression; but to say that an Account
presented to the House, and received by the House,
was a scandalous Account, appeared to him not to
be :proper language.

- .
Mr. ROPSON submitted to the authority of the
Chair, and then proceeded, at some length, to insist
on objeetions to the 'Accounts, as he had doire-on a
former, occasion,
Mr. SIM E,ON said, he apprehended it was very
irregular for Gentlemen to use the harsh language
which had been used upon this and a former occa-
sion ; it appeared to him much more regular to
make a Motion-upon the subje6l.
The Report was then agreed to.

ts''e CJTAACELLOR if eye
moved the Order of the tosy for going into a Com_
mittee of Ways ,and Means. TheTildlse haviiig re-
solved itself into the said COMrhittee,
TLe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said,
.that he , had,' upon a former decasion, stated to
the House„ that under the present circumstances of
the Country, it might he proper -td put off the pe-
cuniary arrangements for a certain period:. At the
same time, it was necessary that a Supply should
be granted for the Public Service; he thf...refore
moved, in conformity to the Vote of the Committee
of Supply, that. a Sum of 2, zoo,oool. be raised by
Exchequer Bills, &c. .

Mr. ROBSON wished; the Exchequer Bills might
be issued for smaller sums than they had lately been,
because, by, making the. smallest of the Exchequer
Bills for Soot. it prevented, them from circulation.
Another point he wished to ''pr,t:ss upon tile House,
was>this, that Exchequer Bills were sometimes at
a Discount, and sometimes-at a Preinitim, and he did-
not see the profit or loss stated in the Public Ac..•
counts.

The CHANCELLOR of the ,EXCHEQUER
said, he was not aware of any objeCtion that could
be made, if the Hon. Gentleman made a Motion to
that etre& ; but the Hon. Gentleman would recol-
le4, that in the month of November last, there
was a.redudion'of one halfpenny in the Interest of
Exchequer Bills.
The Motion was then agreed to, and the House
being resumed, the -Report was ordered to be re-
ceived to-morrow.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report on the
Southern Whale Fishery Report was
-agreed to, and a Bill was ordered to be brought in.

INSOLVENT DEETORS.

Mr. W. WYNNE said, he rose in pursuance of
his notice, to call the. attention of the House to the
Ad of the
,32d of Geo. 11. respelling Debtors. He
had originally intended to have trespassed at some
length upon the attention Of the House ; -but at pre-
sent he felt that it would be more consonant with
their feelings if he simply stated the objea of the
Bill he meant to move for. By the At of the 32d
of Geo, 11. the benefit arising Debtors was
limited to persons confined for debts under tool.—
It was afterwards extended "to tool.--He meant to
propose, that that privilege should be extended in-
definitely, Another-regulation of the Ad of Geo.
,11. was, that personsfn'tit giving a true account of
:their property, should be =transported : he meant to
propose, that the Creditors should have a right to
claim the whole of the property, because there were
many cases in which the Debtor would rather lay in
prison, or even go to Botany Bay, than pay his debts.
Another objed he had in view was, to enable Debtors
to apply to the Quarter Sessions for relief, as well
as to-the Judges -of Assize. He concluded with
moving for leave to bring 'in a Bill for these pur-
poses.

Mr. NICHOLLS said it was an extremely he-
zardous thing to make hasty alterations in the laws
of the land, particularly for Parliaraent to do so. These
things .could be better done slowly by.the Judges.
He confessed that he .was rather inclined to in-
crease the severity of the laws -against Debtors ;
and at the same time, if Debtors were compelled to
give up the whole of their property, they would
then be entitled to their discharge, and an universal
Bankrupt. Law would be the
.consequence. He
would not oppose the Motion now made ; but after
the Bill was brought in, he hoped the House would
consider it well before they gave their santlion
-to it.

Mr. LPT .Itr N E said, he fully coincided in every
feeling of humanity expressed or felt .by the Hon.
Member towards the distressed and really insolvent
Prisoner for debt, and should always be,found ready
to concur in any reaso!able measure for his relief.
With this feeling he had voted for the Insolvent
Bill last Session, and he heard with much satisfac.
Lion, that a Bill was. intended to be brought forward
in.another House of Parliament, to render the provi-
sions of that Bill permanent. But be had no noriorr
of a Debtor going into King's Bench Prison
with two or three thousand pounds a-year, living
in sumptuous apartment,4 rioting in expensive
luxury, yet pertinaciously,,refusing to pay-his hOnest
Creditors, who Were often consigned to rot in the
dungeons of other gaols, for insolvency created
by the Want of those very
.debts, wantonly and dis-
honestly withheld frOin • them. Instance of this
sort were numerous and notorious. Ina very inge-
niousßeport upon this subjed laid before the House
some years hack, it appeared that a man named Pope,
possessed of jJty, or as was confidently, said, an
hundred thousand licounds, suffered himself to be
committed to the King's Bench, and confined, there'
ten years for a debt of t0,0c01,. Instanc-es of
sort 'were surely not .to be tolerated under any,
principle of justice, And while Laws were made,
every year for the relief of the Insolvent Debtor;
it was desirable that some attention should be had
for the sufferings-of the Creditor.
Mr. MEON asked if the Hon. Gentleman
meant in his Bill to provide that all the future- ef-
t's:as, -and the new property which men might ac..
.quire after being let out of prison, should be sub_
jea to the payinent of the old debts, or not ?
He disapproved of the Hon. Gentleman's plan for
extending the allowances to Debtors of all kinds.
The. Legislature was wise in confining them to
those who owed small sums.

Mr. W. WYNNE gxplained the nature of the
Bill he meant to bring in, and obviated the cbjec.
tions which had been !Tilde to it.

• IVIr.. LEVIS supported the Motion..
Leave Iva; given to bring in the Bill.
Sir H. MILDMAY said, that after what had
fallen from the lIOn. Gentleman" on the other side,
it was not necessary for him to enter at large inro
the subjeft of the Bill he meant to have introduced,
to amend the Aft of the 22d of Geo. 11. for the
Relief of Debtors, and thought it would equally
Weil answer his purpose, if 4; was incorporated wit h
the Bill just proposed by -the • Hon. Gentleman.
By the above Aft prisonets confined for Debt had a
privilege of causing themselves by Petition. to be
brought before a Judge-at the then nestt Term, and

on surrendering tileirTeffeas Upon oath to their Cre-
ditors, to be ordered by the Court sixpence per day
subsistence, to be paid them daily by such Creditors,
on failure of which allowance any one jay,
.the

would he entitled to his iriirnt!diat6 lice ad
don. But rrisdtfers confined far debt in the provim-..
.cial prisons; and in the distant parts of the kingdom;
,having only the opportua; ty of claiming this indul,
gence at the next Assizes; ‘iyhich, in sortie places;
occurred but twice a year; and in others not more
than once, the untbrtunate debtor, - as he must give
to his
-Creditors fourteen clear days notice of such
his petition;
.after having lost the opportunity of
obtaining relief owing to the short stay of the
judges,in the town, had frequently languished six
months or a whOle year in prison; without any op.:
portunity of advantage from that humane Law. His
object was then to rest the, p6wer of granting such
:relief in these Magistrates at Sessions.
The SPEAKER told the Hon. Member, that if
he intended the Regulation he had just proposed
should form a part of the- Bill about to be brought
in, he should wait until it was in one of its stages
before the House.

The Hon. Member did not rriakc any Motion.

Lord FOLKSTONE moved, " That the Account
which was presented on .'Friday last, respating
Places for life, Pensions, &c. should be printed."—
Ordered.

The Committee of Supply
„was put off till Wed-
nesday.

Adjourned at half pan seven till to-morrow.

Ft't277 the LONDON GAZETTE, Feb. 6, I

Ordnance-Office, Februarjf 4, 1802.
•
Royal Regiment of:Artillo.y.
Captain-Lieutenant Gotber Mann to be a Quarter-Master,
vice Charles Godfrey, promoted. Dated lan. r, ISoi,

Xar-Olce, Feb, 6,

tst Regiment of Life Guards, Lieutenant William Stanton to
be Captain, by purchase; vice - I mhotiy proMoted in the
4th: Foot,
Lieutenant George Herbert to be Captain, by purchase, vice
Batson, who retires.
Cornet and -SITb- Lieutenant Stephen Lancaster to be Lieu-
', tenant, vie Stanton.
Cornet and Sub-Lieutenant Henry" Reynolds .Hinde to be
Lieutenant, Vice-Herbert.
Francis Scrimes Pitcher, Gent. td be Cornet and Sub-Lien-
tenant, vice Lancaster.
Francis William Sandford, Gent, to be Cornet and Sub-Lieu-
tenant, vice Hirrde.
4th Regiment of Dragoon Guards, Cornet Samuel Weyment
Harrison, from the 27th,Light Dragoons, i'o be Cornet, by
purchase, vice O'Reilly, promoted.
t ith Regiment of Light Dragoons, Captain Tho Mas Browne
to be Major, by purchase; vice Anderson, who retires.
Lieutenant Wm. OIISIOW to be Captain, vice Browne.
Cornet Patrick Craufurd to be Lieutenant; vice Onslow.
Surgeon John Bullock, from the• 9th Foot, to be. Surgeon,
vice Hunter, deceased.
14th Ditto, Cornet Aldborough Richardson to be Lieutenant,
by purchase, vice Kernble, who retires.
26th Ditto, Hospital-Mate Thomas Davis to be A.ssistant-
Surgeon, vice Meade, promoted in the 40th Foot.
zd Regiment of. Foot, Assistant-Surgeon Wm. Maxton, ,from
the tStli Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Wells, promoted.
Bth Ditto, Hospital-Mate John Browne to be Assistant-Sur-
geon, vice Morten, promoted in the 54th Foot.
9th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon - Stewart, from the t rth
Light i.,,caeoons, to be Surgeon, Nike Bullock, removed to
• the teth Light Pragoons.
13th Ditto, Hospital-Mate Francis Coull, to be Assistant.
Surgeon, vice Mack,lin' deceased.
15th Ditto, Francis Jack Needham, Gent. to be Ensign, by
porch,Lts4 vice Wood, promoted.
tilth Ditto, Hospital-Mate Walter Carver to be Assistant-
Sitrgeon, vice Maxton, promoted in the ad Foot.
24th Ditto, Ensign Henry Colts to be Lieutenant, without
purchase, •
a6th Ditto, Ethanuel Shaw, Gent. to be Ensign, by pur-
chase, vice Glasse, promoted in the 9th Foot.
27th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon Degan, from the Queer.'e
German Regiment, to be Surgeon, vice Halliday, deceased.
42d Ditto, Hospital-Mate Donald Macleod.. to be Assistant.
• Surgeon, vice. Patton, promoted in the meth Foot.
44th Ditto, Hospital-Mate George Norman to be Assistant.
Surgeon, vice Owen, deceased.
30th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon Matthew Lannert, front the
9oth-Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Blackwell, promoted,
53d Ditto, T. C. Andrews, Gent. to be Ensign, by pur.:
-chase, vice John Giant, jun. promoted.
54th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon Win. Morlen, from the- Bth
Foot, to be Stllrgeon, vice Ross; promoted.
58th Ditto, Hospital. Mate Henry West to be Assistant-Sur-
geon, vice Urie, deceased.
both Ditto, G. Ramsay, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase,
vice Bell, promoted.
Hospital-Mate David Browne to be Assistant-Surgeon, Tice
Coobir, deceased. • -
79th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon George, Cockell, from the
.54th Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Egan, promoted.
82,1 Ditto, Ensign \V M. Greenhill to be Lieutenant, with-
. • out purchase, vice Woolsey, promoted.
85th Ditto, Assistant-Surgeon James 'Farlane to be Sur-
geon, vice Browne, who retires upon heif-pay.
9oth Regiment of Foot, Hospital,Mate Samuel Gissing, to.'
be Aisistant4urgeon, vice Lannert, promoted in the scr:ll
Foot. •
4th West India.Regimenti Ensign James Douglas Johnston; .
from the half-pay of the late Independent Companies, to
be Ensign, vice Bowers, who exchanges.
Archibald Cunningham.,-Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase,
vice Browne, promoted in the 59th Foot: