The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-03 00:00:00

LONUONI TUESDAY

court, to "John, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Tuam,
and his Grace the Primate of Ireland;" and the paper
bore the siz,nature of the judge of the court, Dr. Keat-
inge. The present Master of the Rolls, in finally adju-
dicating caw, the referred in his order to an affidavit
made by the " Roman Catholic Archbishop of Team."
These were the words. The next ease he would refer
to was one in which a bequest was made to Dr. John
Cantwell, Bishop of Meath; and Master Litton, in his
report, found that the possession of the prop?rty vested
in " the Most Rev. Dr, Cantwell, Roman Catholic
Bishop of. Meetb." H (Mr. M'Cullagh) was entitled,
then, to say /het the superior courts of law in Ireland
had recognised the existence of those titles.
Mr. NAPIER said that on every point of the ques-
tion, especially as far as it related to Ireland, it was
important they should see their way clearly, because an
attempt had been made to confuse the state of the law as
rezarded Ireland, and induce the belief that there was a
difference between the law of the two countries, and
also to induce the people of Ireland to believe that what
the House was now engaged in was a species of crusade
against them and their religion, whereas they were only
employed in declaring what was the law and the con-
stitution of the country in the matter. And when he
inward the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) the
other night telling . them that they were declaring war
ageinat 8,000;000 of her Majesty's subjects, at a time
when they were only explaining the law of the land, he
listened pith pain and indignation to the Right
Honourable Baronet. What he challenged Honourable
Gentlemen to show was, what difflence there was be-
tween the law of the two countries. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, in his amendment, spoke of the
Roman Catholic archbishops, bishops, or deacons who
shall have been recognised as such by the superior courts
of law and equity. With nerd to the courts of law,
he had heard no instance mentioned of their having re-
cognised them. But, there were some cases which had
occurred, previous to the Act of '29 to which he was
eurprised that reference had not been made. The only
case in Ireland which would be aff-cred by this new
legislation was that of the Bishop of Galway; and even
with regard to that it did not make the assumption of
the title a new offence, the annexation of a penalty to
what was prohibited by the Act of '29 being in fact but
a new punishment. With respect to what had been said
about letters of ordination, marriage certificates, and
the like, and their being put in evidence in certain cases,
in all his experience he had never known an instance
but one of the kind, and that was the case of a marriage
certificate. But with reference to the cases he had re-
ferred to as occurring in the law courts, one was an ap-
plication to the Queen's Bench by a priest, who had be-
come a Protestant, for a mandamus to compel Dr. Murray
to give him letters of ordination, in order that he might
prove his title, and obtain preferment in the Established
Church. Chief Just!ce &she, a man of the most marked
courtesy, delivered a written judgment, and throughout
he called the Roman Catholic bishop Dr. Murray.
Again, in the case of a property demised to a Roman
Catholic bishop and his successors, a question arose on
the death of the bishop between the heir-at-law and the
successor of the bishop, the former claiming by descent,
the bishop claiming as devisee; and the heir-at-law suc-
ceeded, the Court not recognising the official character
of the title. Bat what was the opinion of Dr. M`Rale
himself on the question of titles? In the year 1830,
writing to the Bishop of Exeter, Dr. M'Hale said, "Keep,
then, your titles and your palaces. As for your titles,
leaving the vein ambition of such baubles to your Lord-
ship and the Gentiles, we shall be content with the more
Christian office of administering to the spiritual wants
of those over whom we are appointed." In the case re-
ferred to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the tes-
tator bequeathed 37,0001. for charitable purposes to Dr.
Murray, Archbishop of Dublin, and Dr. Kelly, Arch-
bishop of Tuem, and their successors. On the death of
Dr. Kelly, Dr. Murray and his co-trustees executed a
deed of appointment nominating Dr. M'Hale the succes-
sor of Dr. Kelly, but Dr. M'Hale did not as a matter of
course, as being the successor of Dr. Kelly in the see of
Tuam, become a trustee without that deed of appoint-
ment. Again, in the case of the letters of administra-
tion referred te by the Hon. Gentleman as having been
taken out by Dr. M'Elale in the Prerogative Court, how
did he sign the administration bond? Why, with the
words ".J. M'Hale." As to the case of Sir E. Beg ten,
it was to be observed that Sir E. Sugden never saw ire
The Master certainly did see it, and did, as he would
have done himself in similar circumstances, permitted it
to pass where there was no question about it. Such
then were the cases on which they were called upon to
make a provision. But then they were told of the
Bequests Act. Why, the book he held in his band,
written by a Roman Cathelto barrister, referred
to the Bequests Act, and declared that the
rights which the Roman Catholic bishops ex-
ercised could be so exercised without acknow-
ledging them to be bishops of any particular diocese;
And also that the Bequests Act made no alteration in
their status.—(Elear.) And yet it was said that it
amounts d to a declaration of war against her Majesty's
Roman Catholic subjects when they were called upon to
pass a deteneive Act—(Hear)—and in so doing, he said
that they could make no distinction between England
and Ireland. He denied that the Roman Catholics
in Englend were entitled to less liberty than the Boman
Catholics in Ireland, or that the Protestants of Ireland
were entitled to less protection than the Protestants of
Etigland.—(Cheere.) It they made any such distinction
be asked what kind of a United Kingdom they were to
have ?

Mr. REYNOLDS was not, he said, disposed to fol-
low into the maze of law into which, the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman would lead them, and who on this
occasion was to be regarded as counsel for the Irish
branch of the Protestant Established Church of England
and Ireland.—(Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had referred, he said " with pain and indignation"
to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Ripon. These were strong words to be used by one of
the meek and religious character of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman.—(Hear.) Now, he repeated the
words of the Right Hon. Baronet, and he said that the
Roman Catholic people of Ireland would consider this
Bill a declaration of war against their religion.—(Hear,
hear.) He went further, and said that it was his belief
that if this Bill became law, the Roman Catholic re-
ligion could not be carried on in Ireland but by the
permission of the Attorney-General for the time
being.—(Bear.) Although he intended to vote for
the proviso, he set little value on it, as it would-not refer
to more than a few bishops, and even if it were carried
he would set little value on it.—(Hear, hear.) Neither
would he have voted for the amendment of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Midhurst, which exempted Ireland,
because in doing so it would have imposed penalties on
the Roman Catholic Church in England. He believed
that the first clause being adopted without any explana-
tory proviso, the other clauses were of little consequence,
for in the first clause might be said to be
"the Bill, the
whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill." The Bill itself
was a declaration of religious war; it was an attempt
to prop up the religion of the minority in Ireland, and
to throw obstacles in the way of the Catholic Church in
Ireland—established therein by no human law, but pro-
vided, maintained, and preserved therein by the law of
God; and he now told the Government that the Roman
Catholics would sooner sacrifice their lives than submit

to any law which interfered with their religion.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL remarked that at the timo of
gassing the Emancip-aton Bill it hal been officially in-
tansted to the Roman Catholic prelates that the clause
is !It 1.311 aff:cting their titles would not be acted upon.
Bearing that in mind, they used expressions on which
an argument was now sought to be founded by the son.
and Learned Member for the University of Dublin, who,
in the same breath, argued that no attention was to be
paid to words deliberately inserted in legal deeds. He
egr ettc d that the Hon. and Learned Member had not
imitated the example of his co-religionists in Ireland,
and not joined in that common clamour against the
Roman Catholics which was so disgraceful to this
country.
Sir W. VERNER remarked that the Hon. Member
for Dublin told the Noble Lord at the head of the Go-
vernment that if this Bill passed it would be opposed by
the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He, on the contrary,
said, if the Bill became law it would be supported by the
Protestants of Ireland.—(Elear, hear.) How could they
be called loyal subj, eta who dared the head of her Ma-
jesty's Government to enforce the law? If the Roman
Catholics opposed the law of the land, then they would
be rebels.—(Rear, hear.) And yet this was said by a
couple dozen of Roman Catholic Msmbers who were not
allowed to have an opinion of their own, but were forced
to obey the wishes of their clergy.—(Cries of " Oh, oh,"
and cheers) Ho (Sir W. Verner) hoped the English
Membrrs would put a atop to this proceeding, they had
the mains in their own hands.

Mr, M. J. O'CONNELL hoped the Government was
awake to the topics of the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman.
The opposition of the Hon. Member fir Dublin was lets
fatal than the support of the Hon. and Gallant Member.
The supporters promised by him were those men whom
Sir R. Abercrombie once said were dangerous to every
one but the enemy. Remembering past times, the de-
claration of the Hon. and Gallant Officer gave CIUSO to
suspect danger. He flung back upon the Hon. Baronet
the imputation that Catholics had no will of their own
with calm but perfect scorn. They were, moreover,
members of no secret societies.
Mr. SCULLY said the loyalty of the men adverted to
by the Gallant Colonel was not long since designated "a
sixpenny loyalty," and there was no reason to suppose it
had changed its character since 1849. He deprecated
such imputations as were cast upon the Catholics of Ire-
land by the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, and denied his
statement as to the number of Protestants in that coun-
try. In conclusion he called upon the Government not
to place any dependence on the quasi Orangemen of Ire-
land, but to depend upon the love and loyalty of the Ca-
tholics.
Sir W. VERNER explained. The Hon. Member had
dared the Prime Minister to pass the Bill on pain of the
opposition of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He (Sir
W. Verner) believed that the lion. Member did not re-
present the opinions of that body; but if he did, then he
(Sir W. Verner) had nothing to withdraw from his state-
ment.
Mr. REYNOLDS explained. He bad never dared the
Prime Mieiater to pass the Bill; but he told him his
threats had no weight with him (Mr. Reynolds); and
Lpenal law, the Catholics of this day
es:tors had done—soff,r even death
for
would
ut
ti
dihf
ehi
actr e
ap
t. .601 sl
theirisgeid any
n an
if nee-scary. He (Mr. Reynolds)
denounced the conduct of the Hon. and Gallant Member,
for urging on the Government to cut down his Catholic
fellow-countrymen. He would tell him that the Catho-
' lies despised his threats, and defied his power, and that
such braggadocis was laughed to scorn by the people of
Ireland. The Honourable end Gallant Gentleman
talked of 2
,000,000 of Protestants ; but in 1835 there
Were only 750,000 Episcopalians, and 750,000 of all
o' her di-nominatn Ili. The Honourable Gentleman, with
" l 3 the uf the antnond" courage. said the Protestants
of Ireland were three midiuns.—(No.) If these state-
ments were not controverted,
they believed their own
Honourable Gelitnua .en
would go on Poetising until
untruth.--(0h, 912 i) ge (Bir, Roinoide) hoped there

would be an end of this Battle of the Diamond boasting
—tbe Dolly's Brae boasting—end that the Government
would recollect the rate-in-aid loyalty of the Members
for Protestant constituencies in Ireland.—(Cries of
" Question.") The boasting of the Gallant General was
what he (Mr. Reynolds) called Tallagh Hill " talk ;
he could not, and be dared not, carry it into execution.
He (Mr. Reynolds) repeated his statement that the Pro-
testants of Ireland, as a body, were not in favour of the
Bill.

After a few words from Mr. J. O'CONNELL, in ex-
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 45
Against it ... 291
Majority against the amendment —246_

-Mr. MOORE then proposed as an amendment, after
the words England and Ireland to insert these words,
"so long as the said Church shall continue to be the
United Church-of England and Ireland." It appeared to
him that those who wished that the Established Church
should continue as, it was- in both countries would have
an objection to that-propeeition; but another section of
the House, including the Noble Lord bineself, who did
not wish that the said Church should b 3 the Church of
England and Ireland, could have no objection to his pro-
position. The Noble Lord himself had declared, on pre-
vious occasions, that - such were his opinions. On a
memorable occasion the Noble Lord had said that
unless they made a sweeping reform in the Esta-
blished Church of Ireland, there ought to be a re-
peal of the Union. He would entreat of the Com-
mittee to consider at that moment what were the
feelings of dissatisfaction and disaffection in Ireland
in connexion with the Established Church in Ire-
land. That establishment in Ireland was only continued
to maintain a flimsy abate, at which he believed even its
supporters laughed in their sleeves.—(Question, gnus-
tton.) He would leave it to the judgment of the Noble
Lord to. bring forward that measure in respect to the
Established Church in Ireland that he bad so long led
them to anticipate, and which they had a right to ex-
pect from, his sense of justice.
The CHAIRMAN having put the question.
Mr. H. DRUM.MOND said he should think that there
would be a great want of propriety in him if, upon a
clause in a Bill having-objects wholly disconnected with
the state of the Established Church in Ireland, he ven-
tured into any such irrevalent matter. He was not sur-
prised that there was such a considerable feeling of dis-
appointment in the House at the stste to which that
discussion bad arrived.—(Hear, hear.) It did not
become him to offer any advice to the House; but
for himself he would pursue this course: he would
not attempt to modify, to amend, or to -alter in any
way the provisions of the Bill. Let the Government
and those who choose to meddle with it, with a view
to its perfection or destruetion, treat it as they
pleased, for it was their own child. Bat he would ven-
ture to suggest to Hon. Gentlemen that they should re-
serve themsrlves- for that which he thought was an
exe'odingly likely and the best course, in order not to
deceive the country with a false measure; which was in-
tended by words to enact' that which it neaer could do,
and by which they would really compromise their own
character as well as deceive the people.—(Cheers.)
Mr. REYNOLD:4 said it occurred to him that the
Noble Lord should favour the Committee with his opi-
nion as to the merits of this proviso, He was- desirous
to have the benefit of his opinion, recollecting as he did
the many brilliant and powerful speeches that had been
delivered by him on the subject of the Irish Church.—
(hara hear.) The Hon. Member for Mayo had now
furnished the Noble Lord a golden opportunity of ex-
pressing himself on the subject.—(Laughter.) He
grounded his belief upon his last memorable effort upon
the appropriation clause discussion in 1835, when he
carried his motion triumphantly through the House; the
result of which was the dislodgement of the late Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) from office. Would
the Noble Lord then divide the Committee now upon
the harmless proposition of the Hon. Member for
Mayo? Would he enable them to tell the millions of
Ireland—aye, and the Presbyterians of Scotland and
England, that the Noble Lord was anxious to remove the
injustices of the Established Cnurch in Ireland Was the
Church
,of the minority to be still forced upon the im-
mense majority of that country, who were compelled to
maintain it slung with their own? He thanked the
Right Hon. Baronet in his own name, and in the name
of nis fellow-countrymen for the manly advocacy of the
interests of 7,000,000 of Irish Catholics, whose grati-
tude would compensate for the harsh effects of the lan-
guage of the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin.
Lord J. RUSSELL said his opinion was that the
speech of the Hon. Member had nothing to do with the
amendment before the House, and he should therefore
decline the invitation to enter upon the discussion of the
question of the Established Church of England and
Ireland.

The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... ... ... 36
Against it ••• ... 240

MajArity against the amendment ... -204
Mr. REYNOLDS moved that the Chairman report
progress. and ask leave to sit again. •
Lord J. RUSS consented to the motion.
Committee to be resumed on Friday.
The Prisons (Scotland) Bill went through Committee.
SALMON FISHERIES (IRELAND).
Mr. CONOLLY moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
consolidate and amend the laws relating to salmon
fisheries in Ireland, but stated that it was not his in-
tention to press it during the present session.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE would not oppose the intro-
duction of the Bill after the statement of the Honourable
Member.

Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, whioh was
read a first time.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND ob-
tained leave to bring in a Bill to amend an Act of the
11th and 12th years of her Majesty, relating to poor-
rate poundage and the valuation of ecclesiastical property
in Ireland, and to provide for the renewal of leases of
lands disappropriated from bishoprics.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, Mr. Fox Maule
was discharged from further attendance on the Select
Committee on Kafir Tribes, and Mr. Labourchere was
added to the Committee.

The other busiuess was then disposed of, end the
House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clOck.

DEATH of the EARL of SRAFTESBORY
We regret to announce the decease yesterday of that
venerable and much-respected nobleman, Cropley Ash-
ley Cooper. Earl of Shafiesbury, Baron Ashley of Wim-
borne.St. Giles, county Dorset, Baron Cooper, of Pan-
lett, county Somerset, and a baronet. The noble de-,
ceased was born Dec. 27, 1768, consequently he was in
the 83d S ear of his age. lie married, Dec. 10, 1796,
Anne, daughter of George, Duke of Marlborough, and
aunt of the present Duke, and succeeded to the title of
Earl of Shatte,bury on the death of his brother, the
sixth Earl, in May, 1811. Four sons and three daugh-
ters survive the late Noble Earl, the eldest of whom is
Lord Ashley, now Earl of Shaftesbury, whose elevation
to the House of Peers creates a vacancy in the represen.
tation of the city of Bath.
The late Earl of Shaftesbury for many years most
ably filled the high and responsible office of Chairman
of Committees of the House of Lords; and on his retire-
ment a short time since from that onerous post received
the well-merited eulogies of the beads of all parties.

DEATH OF MR. RICHARD LALOR SHELL.
We regret to say that intelligence reached town yes-
terdayof the sudden death of the Right Hon.-
afternoon, of
heil, her. Majesty's recently appointed
Riehar
Richard
t
Minister at the Court ot Tuscany. The immediate cause
of this melancholy event is stated to have been an attack
of gout in the stomach; but there is reason to believe
that a late tragical incident- in the Hon. Gentleman's
family, involving the lamentable death of his son-in-law,
,Mr. Power, of Garteen, occasioned a shock which has
proved too great for the highly excitable nervous sus-
ceptibility and keen sensitiveness which invariably se
companies-
the. higher order of genius such as distin-
guished Mr. Sheil. The Right lion. Gentleman was in
his 57th year, having been born in 1794. He married,
first, Miss O'Llalloran, neice of Sir. W. Mahon, Bart.;
secondly, 1830, the daughter of John Lalor, Esq., of
Crane, near Clonmel, relict of Eimund Power, Esq.,
of Garteen, county Tipperary. He was called to the
Irish bar in 1814; was Vice-President of the Board of
Trade from March, 1839—when he was appointed a
Privy Councillor—till June, 1841; and Judge Advocate-
General from June to September, 1841.

LAW PROPERTY ASSURANCE AND TRUST SOCIETY.
—The first annual general meeting of this society was held
Essex-street. The chair was taken by
at the offices, 30,
Edward William Cox, Esq., the chairman of the society.
There was a numerous attendance of the shareholders. Tne
report congratulated the meeting on the entire success of the
society. At the end of the first year the income more than
doubled the expenditure, so that already it bad becoMe self-
supporting, a fact almost unprecedented in the history of
assurance offices. - They. bad received 313 proposals, of which
192 were accepted and in force, yielding an annual income of
2,234/., and 27 other proposals had been accepted and were
in progress of completion. Not a. single lite assured had
dropped during the year, All the shares were subscribed
and only a few forfeited ones remained. The utility of the
,and of the redemption
assurance of leaseholds and copyholds
of mortgages and loans, although a novel application of the
principle of assurance, was already recognized by the public,
and many policies of this -class bad been effected. The
assurance of titles was beginning tube understood, and many
proposals were before the board. The application of this to
the use of large properties sold in small lots by substitution of
a policy of assurance of title for the investigation of the whole,
and attested copies for each separate purchaser, was likely to
be very extensively adopted. The expenses f forming the
society, including the registration, &c., and every cost, had
been singularly small—not exceeding 1,2001. Their excellent
offices coat them only 100/. a year including taxes; they
had one of the most efficient actuaries and secretaries in
London, and their entire office expenses did not exceed 700/.
a year. There was no doubt now that the society would
speedily become one of the most extensive and influential,
as its objects are the most useful of any yet established in
the United Kingdom. The report was unanimously adopted.
A sum was voted to the directors and auditors, with thanks
for their services. The retiring directors having been re-
elected, and thanks unanimously voted to the chairman, the
meeting separated.
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medicine will soon palliate the most urgent symptoms, restore
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Establishment, 244, Strand, London.

THE ROUTE TO AMR-AMC—The Parliamentary
Committee on steam communication with India, China, and
Australia, decided yesterday (Monday), by a majority of 11
to 5, in favour of the rcute to Australia, by the Cape, as being
the most desirable for the transport of the mails.

4