The Sun.
London, England, 1851-09-19 00:00:00

SEPTEMBER 19, 1851.

the postage is paid per quarter in advance, at the
Post-office, where the paper is delivered.
CIIAIRMIN—You do not report in your papers the
proceedings of Congress in the way in which they
report here the proceedings in Parliament ?—No,
except in the Washington Journals, in which they
report them very fully—[ think quite as fully as they
are reported here. We hive a telegraphic report
occasionally of a spech by some distinguished
statesman, such as Mr. Clay or Mr. Calhoun, or any
of the leading inf,n ; they are reported fully ; but the
mass of the speech-% are not, except that they are
sketched in a telegraphic report, occupying about
two columns a day, but stretching sometimes to four
or five.

Mr. EWAET—Your newspaper press is of a mare
local character than the press in this country, is it
not?—lt is, I presume, more local than the London
journals, because its circulation is more circum-
scribed by the fact that the local journals are so
abundan%

CIIAIIMAN—You go to considerable expense in ob-
taining news for your pipers from various parts of
the world, do not you ?—Yes ; but mainly it is by
telegraphing from different parts of the country. The
leading journals have correspondents; but the great
item of expense is telegraphing, and sending off boats
sometimes ; when steam ships do not touch at Halifax
we sometimes send off boats to intercept them.
You have correspondents in different places, who
telegraph up to you any occurrence that may be in-
teresting ?—Yes, all over the country; a net work.
You employ those correspodents to pay constant
attention to such things ?—Yes; but telegraphing is
done mainly by an association, called the Associated
Press of New York.

Do you complain of piracy in the United States ;
for instance, of one publisher who has not himself
been at the expense of obtaining news, copying im-
mediately from another ?—lt is sometimes talked of
for effect's sake ; yet, on the whole, I would rather
that those who do not take it should copy than not.
We have six or seven journals in the city, which
form a combination, and spend, perhaps, 100.000 dol-
lars a year in telegraphing; and the evening journals
all copy from us, and we rather like it.
Have you any protection, in the nature of copy-
right, to your news ?—Not the least; the moment it
is out anybody can take it, and they do take it and
issue it.
There is no precaution at all taken against piracy ?
—No; we only take this precaution ; we have, for
instance, a very important piece of information, which
has cost us 1,000 dollars. We will suppose that two
journals take charge of the foreign news, end two
journals take charge of another part of the news; and
the journals having charge of it, when they send the
news round to the others, say, " Tnis is not to be
issued till four [or five] o'clock ;" and no journal of
the combination will let a copy go out of the office
till the hour named; it is in the hands of the carriers,
but it is not allowed to go out till the hour named, and
then nobody can get it.
Supposing it were something of great interest,
there would be a continued demand for your paper if
you were the only one who could communicate it;
and, for a given period, 'that demand would continue,
and you would keep striking off your copies to supply
it. Is there nothing to entitle you, having incurred
the first expense of obtaining that news, to issue it for
any period ?—Not for a moment; anybody may print
it ; but the public are apt to take the paper which has
the first news.

They give the preference to the parties who have
obtained the news first, and in practice piracy does
not inflict injury upon you ?—I would choose that
they should print it rather than not ; they cannot
sell as we could. The fact that certain journals have
the earliest news soon becomes notorious, and
almost every man wants • his newspaper with his
breakfast, delivered between the hours of five and half-
past seven. They take the morning papers to read
with their breakfast, and those who take the news
after we issue it cannot have it in time to deliver it to
a very large number in a suitable morning season, and
we regard it as of no consequence.
Mr. EWART—Does the interest of the intelligence
evaporate so soon ?—Not that ; but a subscriber must
have the paper that gives him his news in the morning
before he goes to his work.
You retard the publication of news sometimes ?
Yes, when we have important intelligence.
Is not that an inconvenience to the public ?—We
get them out in our regular way, but we do not let a
copy g.) out of the hands of our confidential agents till
the hour, say of five o'clock in the morning.
CHAIRMAN—At what rate can you print the New
York Tribune ?—Oar press will work but 10,000 an
hour ; there is lone faster, en eight cylinder, which
Kill work 20,000 they say ' • I call it 18,000.
Mr. COBDEN—Do you believe there is a press at
work in New York which will print 18,000 copies an
hour?—Yes ; I have seen it at work, and it will
throw off as fast as men can feed sheets upon it.

Have you seen the press that is used for the Times?
—Yes.

Do you consider that the press at New York prints
with more rapidity than the one at the Times office ?
—Yes; the press of the Times is fed on what I call I
a drum or vertical cylinder ; we feed on horizontal
cylinders, directly on and around our greater or type
cylinder. One man stands over the top, and another
below, and so on, feeding, and the four cylinders are
fed on each side of the large cylinder, on which the
form revolves, and they feed the four paper cylinders,
one above the other on each side of the large cylinder :
the sheets are laid over and over on the face as fast
as the great cylinder can be turned, and every time it
makes one revolution, it has printed eight journals.
Is that machinery used by the proprietor of a penny
paper ?—Yes ; a halfpenny newspaper, the Sun.
Must not that require the use of considerable capi-
tal ?—Yes ; the Sun concern is worth a quarter of a
million dollars ; 50,0001. was given for it.
Do you speak of copyright and plant ?—There was
very little property beside. It was sold for a quarter
of a million dollars, and it was very cheap.
Fifty thousand pounds for a halfpenny paper ?—Yes.
What is the circulation ?—Fifty thousand, but the
circulation is a very light matter ; there is no profit
upon that; but the advertising would be, I suppose,
601. a day, or 300 dollars a day.
Could you furnish the Committee with some sta-
tistical information as to the newspaper press of
America ?—Yes, when our census returns are pub-
lished. I should say that the whole number of jour-
nals printed in the United States is about 3,000 now.
If you count, for instance, one daily, with its weekly
and semi-weekly, all as one paper, the number is
2,500 journals published.
Are there 2,500 with distinct and separate titles ?
Yes, distinct establishments; of which about 2,000
are devoted to general intelligence and politics, and
the others are devoted to science, religion, and edu-
cation.
And they are published. at all intervals, from once
a day to once a month?—Yes, some twice or thrice
a day.
Mr. EWART—Your principal profit is derived from
advertisements, is it not?—Yea, on daily papers.
CHAIRMAN—With reference to the Sun paper, you
stated in your last examination that the circulation
was large, but that the profit derived therefrom was
from the advertising ?—The profit is nothing on the
circulation. I will state how in our country, there
being no duty on the advertisements, the prices are
very much less for advertising. The prices range from
25 cents up to any amount, that is to say 25 cents is the
lowest ; for instance, the advertisement of a religious
meeting, or any public gathering, will be some 25 cents,
or ls. of the money of this country ; the consequence
is that the amount of their advertisements is enor-
mous. Every religious meeting, or meeting to take
place of any religious society, benevolent or philan-
thropic, is advertised in all the journals, and forms a
very large proportion of our receipts, though the re-
ceipts in each case are very small. We regard those
as a portion of the news of the day; and advertising,
which possesses a public interest, is done at a less
price than advertisements intended for the pecuniary
profit of the advertiser. Now an advertisement duty
would destroy new papers. Its operation is this :
your duty is the same on an advertisement in a
journal where it is worth ten times as much, for in-
stance, in a journal of 50,000 circulation, as in a
journal with 2,000, although the value of the article
is twenty times as much in the one case as in the
other; the duty operates precisely as though you
were to lay a tax of is. a day on every day's labour
that a man were to do ; on a man's labour which is
worth, say, 25., it would be destructive ; while by
that man who earns2os. it would be very lightly
felt. It would entirely destroy new papers. An ad-
vertisement is worth but a certain amount, and the
public soon get an idea of what it is worth ; you put
a duty oa advertising, and you prevent any adver-
tisement coming to a new establishment. To those
people who advertise in the Sun and our well-
established journals, they could afford in charge a
price to include the duty, and do very
well ; but in a new concern the advertisements
would not be worth the amount of the duty,
and the consequence would be it would be
utterly withheld. Now the advertisements are one
main source of the value of daily papers, and thou
sands of business men take them in mainly for those
advertisements. For instance, at one time, in New
York, our auctioneers were appointed by law, and
were of course party politicians, And one journal,

which was high in the confidence of the party in
power, obtained not a law but an understanding that
all the auctioneers appointed should advertise in that
journal. Now, though that journal has ceased to be
of that party, and the auctioneers are no longer ap-
pointed by the State, yet that journal has almost a
monopoly of the auctioneers' business, because, at a
certion time all the auctioneers were obliged to ad-
vertise in that paper ; consequently all the men who I
buy and sell at auction were obliged to take the paper, I
and now, although the necessity has gone away, yet
still every advertiser by auction must advertise in
that journal, because he knows that purchasers are
looking there, and every purchaser by auction must
take that journal in, because he knows that the ad-
vertisements by auction will he there, without regard
to the goodness of the paper, but simply because of its
containing those advertisements ; all the groat dry
goods interest, with the corresponding interests, must
take that paper, and they continue to take it;
and precisely in that way the advertising duty I
is an enormous help to any paper which has
the most circulation ; it tends to throw the ad-
vertising always on the greatest concern, and the per-
sons who take, as I know men in this town do take,
one journal mainly for its advertisements, must take
the rinzes, because everything is advertised there ;
consequently they do take it, and advertisers must
advertise in it for the same reason. If we had a duty
on advertisements now, I will say not only that it
would be impossible to build a new concern up in
New York against the competition of the older ones,
but it would be impossible to preserve the weaker
papers from being swallowed up by the stronger .nnes.
Mr. COBDEN—Do you consider that the fact which
you have heard stated, that the Times newspaper for
the last fifteen years has been increasing so largely
in its circulation is to be accounted for mainly by the
existence of the advertisement duty ?—Yes ; much
more than by the stamp. The limited circulation of
papers generally is caused by the stamp. But the
advantage of any one journal must be caused by the
advertising duty, which in effect is charging ten
times as much for an advertisement in one paper as in
another. An advertisement in the Times may be
worth 51., while in another paper it is only worth 11.,
but the duty is the same.
CHAIRMAN—Then the advertisement duty must
really destroy all the advertisements that are not
worth the duty ?—Yes, that and something more ;
you cannot publish them for nothing ; the advertising
duty not being gaaranteed, it is the same as so much
on each without regard to size.
Mr. RICH—The greater the number of compara-
tively small advertisements in papers, the greater the
advantage to their proprietors ?—Yes ; I should say,
suppose the cost of a small advertisement to be ss.
(the usual charge in the Times), if you have to pay
Is. or is. 6d. duty, it is not worth the duty in a
journal with a fourth part of the circulation of the
Times.

CHAIRMAN—Your meaning is, with regard to the
stamp, that the stamp wars against the advertisement
duty, and that the advertisement duty wars against
the stamp ?—I say that the stamp duty wars against
a greater circulation of newspapers, and the advertise-
ment duty wars against ell others in favour of one.
Does not it appear to you inconsistent that if a
Government is disposed to tax the press it should im-
pose two sorts of tax; the one tending to lessen the
amount received from the other P—l should think that
it tends that way.
Both combine in keeping down the press, though
one lessens the amount of revenue receivable from the
other ?—Yes.
Mr. RICH—If the one tends to prevent the existence
of a leviathan paper, to that extent it would not tend
to keep down the press, would it P—The one tends to
throw all the business on one concern.
But the other stamp duty has not that effect, has
it P—l do not think it has particularly that effect.
Then by that means it would not have so injurious
an effect as the advertisement duty P—lt would not
have as unequal and as monopolising an effect as the
advertisement duty.
CHAlRMAN—Supposing it is admitted that the Go-
vernment has a right to tax the press, and there are
three kinds of taxes on the press, first on the paper,
then on the stamp, and then on the advertisements
that are inserted in the paper, does not it appear to
you that the operation of these taxes must be hostile
to one another; in the first place, by lessening the
circulation of the, papers by means of the stamp duty,
you diminish the consumption of paper, end therefore
lessen the amount of paper duty; and secondly,
by diminishing the number of papers sold through
the stamp, you lessen the number of advertisements in
the papers, and therefore the receipts from the adver-
tisement duty ?—I should say, that if the Government
were simply as a matter of revenue to fix a duty, say
of a halfpenny per pound, or something like that, on
paper, it would be easily collected, and prcduce more
money; tind then a law which is equal in its opera-
tion does not require any considerable number of
officers to collect the duty, and it would require no
particular vigilance, and the duty on paper alone
would be most equal and most efficient as a revenue
duty.
It is clear then that the effect of the stamp and ad-
vertisement duty is to lessen the amount of the receipt
from the duty on paper?—Enormously. I see that
the circulation in London is but 60,000 against
130,000 in New York city, while the tendency is
more to concentrate on London than on New York.
Not a tenth part of the daily payers in the United
States are printed in New York city.
Mr. COBDEN—Do you consider that there are up-
wards of a million daily papers issuinez from the daily
press in the United States ?—I should say about a
million ; I cannot say upwards. I think there are
about 250 daily journals published in the United States.
You would consider that there are a million of
daily papers issuing from the press of the United
States ?—I think very neerly that.
• You stated that there are fifteen daily papers in
New York ; how many are there in Boston ?
Twelve, I think.
What is the population of Boston P—Boston con-
tains but about 140,000 inhabitants, but Massachu-
setts is much more compactly peopled
i and better sup-
plied with railways. All the towns n Massachusetts
and in New England take more or less of the Boston
daily papers.
What number of daily papers are published in Phi-
ladelphia ?—Philadelphia has ten, I think ; they are
not so many in number, but one or two have a much
larger circulation.
How many in Baltimore?—Six.
How many in New Orleans, should you think ?
Ten or twelve, I think.
At what amount of population of a town in America
do they generally
.begin to have a daily paper ; they
first of all begin with a weekly paper, do they not ?
Yes. With regard to newspapers, the general rule is
this, that each county will have one. In all the free
states, if a county has a population of 20,000, it has
two, one of each party. The general average is about
one local journal in the agricultural counties for
10,000 inhabitants. A county containing 50,000 has
five journals, which are generally weekly papers;
and when a town grows to have as many as 15,000
inhabitants, or thereabouts, then it has a daily paper.
Sometimes that is the case when it has as few as
10,000. It depends more upon the business of the
place, but 15,000 may be stated as the average at
which a daily paper commences. At 20. ,000 they
have two, and so on. In central towns, like Buffalo,
Rochester, Troy, and such towns, they have from three
to five daily journals, each of which prints a semi-
weekly or a weekly journal.
Mr. RlCH—Have those papers much circulation
outside the towns in which they are published ?
The county is the general limit, though some pervade
a judicial district including five or six counties.
They do not penetrate into counties and towns in
which other papers are published ?—Notas a rule,
but the Buffalo papers will have a circulation round
Lake Erie, which is a country easily reached by
them.
Would the New York papers, for instance, have
much circulation at Charleston ?—The New York
Herald, I think, which is considered the journal the
most friendly to the southern interests, has a conside-
rable circulation there.
Independently of peculiar reasons, they would notcirculate in the more distant states ?--To a certain
extent, the leading political journal of one party
would be taken by the leading politicians
.of every
state; and if it is a business journal, there.misenl one.atio
I
know particularly that has a very largehn
among the pork buyers and the grain buyers throug. -
out the free western states, haying relations with
New York. They want fuller reports of the markets
than those the telegraph brings them.
Substantially the newspaper of any of those states
finds the bulk of its readers within its own states ?
Yes, the Washington papers are au exception.
The New Orleans papers
i would have but little
circulation in New York, for is
? —No.
Mr. EWART—The circulation more local than in
this country, is it not ?—Yes.
CHAIRMAN—When a person proposes to publish a
paper at New York, is he required to go to any office
to register himself?—No, not at all.
Is he required by law to give any security that he
will not insert libels or seditioue,matter?—No.
Ile merely publishes rpapei'at hip nitin will and
pleasure, without consulting any public authority?
—Yes,