The Sun.
London, England, 1851-04-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL l,

as retarded ofii,E,,rs who had Tarchlsf,d their
tc promulgation. There Wd9

who 6'J L 0
motion atter a certain period, and he deuiei that
they had any right to impose upon men who had em-
barked their fortunes in the army a new condition—
namely, the learning of algebra, Euclid, logarithms, &c.
He co npla'ned that those examinations were conducted
most capriciously, unfairly, and absurdly. Ho knew a
case of a young gentleman, whose father told him ne was
asked, among other ansurd questions, what was the dif-
ference between a monk and a friar.—(Great laughter.)
The answer of the young man he did not hear, but he
stated that the answer which was on the tip of his
tongue, but that he feared it would be considered imper-
tinent, was, "Six of one and half-a-dozen of the other."
—(Renewed laughter.) He complained also of the groat
expense to which these gentlemen were put by being
sent to private tutors to be crammed. He hoped the
Right Hon. Gentleman would take the matter into his
serious consideration.
Mr. F. MULE bad heard many obj,:ctions togiving
instruction to officers of the army, but the Hon. and Gal-
lant Gentleman was the first who had the courage to
stand up in defence of the old state of ignorance of the
officers of the army. It was a degree of courage that he
did not expect from a military man. They had begun to
educate the soldiers, and ho doubted whether the officers
would like to he more ignorant than the soldiers—that
they should excted in professional knowledge those
under whom they acted. Such a state of things would
produce a feeling of contempt for those officers in the
minds of the men. So far ac he was concerned, it was
his desire that no books should be published containing
questions and answers, but that young officers should be
called up to the table and be asked questions origi-
nating in the mind of the examiner. With regard to
the examination of cornets and ensigns on their pro-
motion, it was purely of a professional character, and on
the promotion of an officer to a company the examina-
tion was far more difficult and comprehensive. He be-
lieved the complaint was not of the examination, but
that officers were not afforded an opportunity of acquir-
ing that information. In the garrison of Portsmouth
there was a very able man appointed to instruct, not the
officers, but the men, and yet he was invited by many of
the officers to give them instruction upon various
branches upon which they required to be informed. He
should shortly come to the house to ask them to pro-
vide instructors for the cfyicers who would be
.men of
their own rank and station, and he believed that these
men. instead of being looked upon with suspicion,
wonld be sought and their society courted by the other
officers.
Colonel REID bad no intention whatever to disparage
the character of the officers of the army. He thought
when the Duke of Wellington, who had had the control
of the army for forty years, had not interfered, it was
too much of the Right lion. Gentleman to introduce that
innovation.

Mr. HUME thought if there was one thing more than
another for which the Right Honourable Gentleman de-
served credit, it was the instruction of the officers of the
army. If the Duke of Wellington had not interfered
during forty years, so much the worse. The British
army was notorious for its ignorance—(ol3, ob)—
the officers at any rate.—(lronical cheers.) Take an
English battalion, and place it side by side with a
French one, and he was satisfied that they would have
no chance with the French, all of whom received a
regular professional education. This was certainly one
of the things for which he was disposed to give the Go-
vernment credit.—( Hear.) In the Military College there
were only 180 cadets, and he did not think it was ne-
cessary for that small number to maintain a governor,
at 1,0001. per annum, a deputy governor, and a large
staff of officers. The establishment was far too expen-
sive. He thought there ought to be a talented officer
selected to teach the young officers professional know.
ledge and military tactics. Rules should be laid down
for all young men ent =ring the service in future, and
when it was known that this knowledge was requisite
previously to promotion, all would avail themselves of
it. He thought it rather hard, however, that the rule
should be applied to those who were already ten or
twelve years is the service.
Sir DE LACY EVANS concurred with the Hon.
Member for Montrose, that this new system of instruc-
tion in the army was one of the things for which the
Government deserved the highest credit. He hoped the
Right Hon. Gentleman would not be deterred by the
objections of the Hon. and Gallant Menala r 'opposite
from persevering in his plan. Hitherto money alone
was considered the main ingredient in promotion, but
now there was a chance of merit being considered and
rewarded.

Colonel DUNNE did not see any objection to the
publication of those " Illanuels of Instruction," which
were rerfectly necessary to carry out the system of in-
str uction.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the next vote, 18,016/. for defraying the charge of
the Royal Military Asylum and the Hibernian Military
School,

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Mr. HUME said that in this Royal Military Asylum
the country. He recollected a school having been esta-
blished in Spitalfields some time ago, whole there were
1,000 pupils educated at an expense of only 1101.
Mr. F. MAULE said they should bear in mind that
this asylum was established for the purpose of providing
for the orphan children of soldiers, where they were edu-
cated by schoolmasters in the army; indeed they were
all there in the course of training for the position of
schoolmasters for the British army. It was impossible
to support these establishments upon more economical
principles. The Hon. Member seemed to think it ad-
visable to bring over the children in the Hibernian School
for the purpose of making one establishment of the
whole; there was, however, good reason for keeping up
the Hibernian School in Ireland, inasmuch as the chil-
dren there were principally Catholic orphans, and the
arrangements there for the education of such were much
more convenient than they could have been in the
Royal Military Asylum here. He believed, too, that
it was a model institution, and was most admirably
conducted.
Mr. HUME said that the money demanded for these
establishments was sufficient to maintain four times the
number of children in them. He was informed that the
eldest of the boys in them was only fourteen. He thought
that those children could be better brought up in the
country.
After a few words from Sir DE LACY EVANS and Mr.
F. MAIILE in reply,
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote proposed was 65,0001. for defraying the
charge of volunteer corps.
Mr. W. MILES was very much satisfied with the
manner in which his Right Hon. Friend had spsken of
the yeomanry corps when the subject was last before the
House. He (Mr. Miles) had the honour for some years
to command a regiment, and he requested the Right
Hon. Gentleman to consider the short time that was
allowed to the yeomanry corps to exercise and become
disciplined. They had only five days in the year. Surely
the Right Hon. Gentleman did not suppose that under
such circumstances they could obtain that efficiency
which it was so desirable they should have? Was the
Right Hon. Gentleman, too, of opinion that 7s. a man was
too high payment when they were called out for exercise
—whether that exercise be fur permanent duty, or for
such as was contemplated this year? The year before last
they had three options—viz., either not to go out at all
—(Laughter)—to go out in detachments for three days,
or as regular regiments. lie wished to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman whether he thought they could go Oat
as regiments with their horses for only ss. a man? He
(Mr. Miles) did not complain of such payment; but it
must come to this, that if we wished to keep up the effi-
ciency of the yeomanry, we ought not to pay them less
than 7s. This payment must be made up by the com-
manders, if they wished to preserve their corps in a
state of efficiency. If they touched the contingent fund
f,r this purpose, how were they to meet the expenses of
clothing and other contingencies? Let us have either an
efficient body of men or none at all. Any vote that re-
duces the cost of the 3 eomanry, cannot but be detrimen-
tal to the interests of the country. He would now refer
to the speech made last year by the Hon. Member for
Bristol (Mr. H. Berkeley) on this subject. The motives
and actions of the yeomanry were misconstrued by the
Hon. Gentleman on that occasion. That lion. Gentleman
then said, in speaking of the Bristol riots, that the West
Somersetshire Yeomanry, during that time, were locked
up in a riding school by order of the authorities, to pre-
vent the people doing them harm.—(Laughter.) Now the
facts were these, that orders were issued by the magistrates
of Bristol, requiring Captain Shute to call out his troop.
The troop, however, mustered so exceedingly small,
being only seventeen, that, on the fact being reported to
the magistrate, they were ordered to march to the
ridine-house, and to wait there until further orders.
Captain Shute obeyed these orders. The military having
all retired out of Bristol, thin troop rendered most t ffi•
cient service in placing the stores in safety. Captain
Shute, with his small troop, exhibited the greatest
courage and efficiency en the occasion. When the or-
ders were given for the assembling of the regiments up-
on a Sunday morning, many of them had to march
upwards of forty miles into Bristol. Thanks were given
to them, not only by the magistrates of Bristol, but also
by the general who was then in command of the mili-
tary. In these thanks Captain Shute's troop was parti-
cularly specified as having been most active and efficient
on the occasion. The troops that did not tura out
on the Sunday wore dismissed on the Monday morn-
ing. Such was the plain statement he had to make
in ens% er to the violent speech of the Honourable
?Umber for Bristol.—(Cries of " Oh, oh!") Well,
ho would call it the humorous and sarcastic
speech made by the Hon. Gentleman last year. He
for hoped
and
trusted that when next the Hon, Member
Bristol thought it necessary to make an attack upon
the corps of
yeomanry, he would have the courtesy. to
inform the leading members of the corps in that House
of his intention.
Ile (Mr. Miles) had been frequently
out on duty with his
corps,-
and whenever they were
called upon to assist the civil force, he had faund them
invariably ready to a man to do their duty in a manner
mot creditable to them_(Hear.)
Mr. H. DERKELEY thought the onslatieht just made
General—(Laughter)—he
uponreal hf
really
lion. Member—well, by
the Gailaut Colonel, demanded a brief reply from him.
Ile would end( avour to show , the Hon. and Gallant
Cirarget by
ythe the
eienity Gallant tbo
Member that he was not quite so much to blame in the
matter as he might supeov- "e hoped. that the Gallant
Colonel, who formed the vanguard
_in the present attack
upon him. would not be fell.ewed by the Hon. and .
Gallant Member for Warwickshire ('.fir. Neweegate),
who had under his summand a mournful and dangerous
he consi&redmany
troop. Indeed, when how. Hon.
d with t
' Members in that House were connected yeo-
manry, he could not but feel his situation somewhat
alarming, and he was reminded of the fin^s in Hu_
dibras:"—

"Oh, what dangers do environ
The man that meddles with cold iron."

—(Laughtar.) He had endeavoured to show that the )
yeomanry, us military men, wrro perfect impostors, and
: go,

) •';
(=sit:a refemd to, and he ref,rred to toe Bristol rids..
The :mediation he then made was tot from hicas,lf, but
was one which he had quoted from the Bristol Gazette,
en old established paper, and the editor of which, as the
Honourable Member f,,r Somersetahire must know, was
a highly respectable and trustworthy gentlraan. That
paper stated that a body of men from the West Somer-
setsiire yeomanry had b,en called upon by the magis-
trates upon the Saturday of the three days' riots (Satur-
day, Sunday. and Monday, being those three days).
Mr. W. MILES—They were not called upon until the
Sunday.
Mr. LI. BERKELEY would be able to show that they
were called upon by the magistrates on the Saturday,
but they never appeared until the Sunday.—(Cheers and
laughter.) And when they appeared they showed in
such small numbers—

Mr. MILES—It was only a troop.
Mr. H. BERKELEY knew it was only a troop. It
was the Bedminster troop. The Bedminster troop,
being the nearest to Bristol, to whom therelore should
the magistrates apply but to them ? They came up, as
be had said, but in such small numbers, that they were
locked un in the riding-house in Portmore-lane, by con-
sent of Captai❑ Shute—(Laughter)—not S-h-double-o-r,
but S-h-u•t-e.—(Loud laughter.) A letter appeared in
the Bristol Gazette at the time, stating that Captain Shute
concurred in opinion with the magistrates that his troop
having assembled in such smell numbers, should be shut
up.—(Laughter.) That was the statement of the editor
or the Bristol Gazette, referring to his files of the year
1831. He held the statement in his hand, and any
Honourable Member who wished to read it was welcome
to do so. He had the greatest respect for his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Mile• 1), the gallant leader of gallant men—
(A laugh)—and he believed as to his gallant corps, that
take them off their horses, and take them out of uni-
form—in which they looked like hogs in armour—
(Laughter)—put them into smockfroeks, and put a stick
into their bands, and they would make excellent special
constables. But, as a county constabulary—laugh
(Laughter)—they never did distinguish themselves, and
never would.—(Continued laughter.) They would al-
ways be a most unfortunate defence against riots if they
were czlled into action.

Mr. MILES explained. The yeomanry could not be
called out with a magistrate's order, and it WAS by order
of Alderman Daniels that they retired to the riding-
house.

Mr. HUME hoped that the House, after the speech of
his Hon. Fiend (Mr. H. Berkeley), would be prepared
to dispense with the vote altogether.—(A laugh.)
Mr. F. MAULE could not agree with the Hon. Mem-
ber for Bristol in the aspersions which he had cast upon
the yeomanry cavalry.—(Cheers.) He could not concur
with him in thinking them " impostors" as soldiers, for
the reports which he had seen from experienced officers
of the army warranted him in stating, that if well
drilled and well disciplined, the yeomanry would per-
form any duty that any body of men could be called
upon to perform.—(Hear, hear.) He regarded them as
an admirable force.

Colonel CHATTERTON, having inspected the yeo-
manry cavalry 69 times, could state that he had found
them in the highest state of efficiency, far exceeding what
could have been supposed from the short period of train-
ing they had had.—(Hear.) He regarded them as a
loyal, admirable, and devoted body of men.—(Cheers.)
Mr. H. BERKELEY said he should oppct.e this
vote.—(Oh, oh.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but the
reporters were almost immediately re-admitted, Mr. H.
Berkeley having withdrawn his opposition.
Mr. EDWARDS should be sorry to see Mr. H. Ber-
keley hi the regiment to which he belonged.—(A laugh.)
The Hon. Member had talked of the officers of the yeo-
manry as " hogs in armour."—(Laughter.) What
would the Hon. Member look like if he were arrayed in
the uniform?—(A laugh) lle would look very unlike
an officer, he should think. He hoped he should never
see that Hon. Member among his corps.—(A laugh.)
Mr. HUNIE thought it a pity the House should not
have a division.—Cries of 'Divide" from the Opposition
benches.)
The vote was then agreed to.
Mr. F. MAULE said he did not propose to take any
more votes for the army to-night.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. _ _

Colonel ANSON, in rising to bring forward the
ordnance estimstes, said that when they were under con-
sideration last year he felt it necessary to go into more
than the usual details. It would not be necessary to
trespass now for so long a time upon their patience. It
would be seen in these estimates that the amount demanded
this year showed a slight diminution from that of lust
year. The reduction was 22,920/. The Committee would
not, he trusted,:imagine but that every requisite attention
had been given to the consideration of all the items com-
prised in these estimates. The changes that had recently
been made had led to great reductions within the last
two years, and it would be seen that the decrease in these
estimates since 1849 was about 580,6461. The Govern-
ment were most anxious that this expenditure should be
confined within the lowest possible limits, and it was no
doubt the object of Parliament to carry out their wishes.
It must be remembered the vast services that were
to be performed by this department, and the expense
cf it must be regulated in proportion to such services.
He (Colonel Anson) believed that there would be
great improvement found in this department, coupled
with an increased efficiency. He did not think
a varying estimate on .a fixed payment was
desirable, because it indicated a want of fixed
principle; but those who had read the report of the
Committee up-stairs would, be was satisfied, acquit the
department of the Ordnance of any extravagance. The
reductions recommended by the Committee bad been
adopted where practicable, and there was no want cf
care and attention on the part of the Government and
the department to make them available. But economy
was not always retrenchment—especially in the Ord-
nance service, in respect of which no change so imme-
diately affected the public. He would, however, proceed
to the votes, asking the Hon. Member for Montrose to
exclude altogether from his charge as against the Ord-
nance department, the first on the list, seeing that it
was a purely military vote; though be (Colonel Anson)
could not omit the opportunity of bearing his testimony
to the high state of efficiency, and the great value of the
Ordnance military corps—engineers, drivers, and sappers
and miners. The amount for this vote was 712,755/.,
being 173!. less than last year; but then there had
been no changes in that service since then. The hos-
pital expenses were less by 1,169!. than last year.
This year, however, the soldiers' pay and stoppages
while in hospital were included. The items for
schools came next ; and he was glad to say in that
particular the Ordnance corps was not behind the
army. The artillery schools up to 1840 had been sup-
ported by voluntary contributions. Since then they had
been supported by the public. There were now schools
at 21 stations; and they cost the public in all 3971. The
course of study was English grammar, geography, alge-
bra, the use of the globes, practical geometry, mensura-
tion, measurement of heights and distances, and Scrip-
ture history. Besides this there was another course for
non-commissioned officers to improve themselves further
in practical geometry, mensuration of solids, extraction
of the square root, plane and spherical trigonometry, &c.
The most satisfactory accounts were given of their pro-
gress. At Woolwich there was inadequate accommoda-
tion, and the increase of this year was for the purpose
of increasing that accommodation. The attendance was—
Non-commissioned officers ... ... 235
Gangers and drivers ... 258
Trumpeters 116
237
In 1834 the! e was a library established for non-commis-
sioned officers. In 1835 there was one for gunners and
drivers, but recently the officers' library had been given
to the former, and the library of the latter to the gun-
ners, such was the desire of the latter for information.
The regimental savings banks had also increased, both
i❑ the number of depositors and in the amount deposited.
There were in
1846-7, 383 depositors and £3,018 deposits.

1849-50, 1,109 „ 7,303 „
Touching the instruciinn of officers it would be found
the- that had also b, en attended to. There was a captain
of artillery placed as the director of artillery studies, and
all the second lieutenants received from him a practical
direction to their studies. The next point he would ad •
vort to was the allowance to married soldiers. There
was an error in the estimates as regarded the non-com-
missioned officers in this respect. The allowance was set
down at Id. per thy; but the Treasury had granted
them 2d. per day for the purpose. He was happy to say,
also, that there were no Lwer than 52 new cottages
built upon Woolwich. common for the accommodation of
married soldiers and non-commissioned officers which
were at a nominal rent,-7d. a week to the former. With
respect to corporal punishment in the Ordnance corps,
the reprt he had to make was highly satisfactory. There
were in

1846-7, with 10,000 men ... 81 corporal punishments.
18 tB-9, an increased number 34 If
1850, there were only ... 6 9,
The vote for recruiting would be found to be reliced.
Recruiting was now conducted in a most economical
manner. The next vote was for commissariat allow-
ances (No. 2). nib was 5 5801. less than last year.
There was an increase on the article of forage, because
of the increased value of that article, and also because
there were 328 horses more in the corps. But there was
a decrease of 8,0001. in coals, 1,7001. in candles, and 3141.
in palliasse straw.
The diminution was therefore ... £10,282
The increase ... 10,403

Leaving a difference ... £l2l
The barrack supply was 4,968/. less this year than last;
and when it was considered that the army was 120,000
strong, that there were 400 barracks in all, and that the
average was not 10/. per man each year, it could not be
called extravagant. With respect to the great coats of
the army, there was a diminution of 3.000/. Next year,
however, he did not anticipate a reduction, because a new
coat had been approved of which would be more expensive
than the present. The third vote was that for the Ord-
nance Office; a vote which had engaged the atteution
of the Committee up stairs very closely, On this vote
there appeared a diminution of 11,0001. He did not
take credit for all this amount, as part of it had been
transferred to the next vote. The actual diminution,
however. was 3,6041. He considered no objection could
be raised to the vote in its reduced form. The next
vote was for the expenses in the United Kingdom . and
colonies. He would not go through an explanation in
detail, but the result was that 8,600/, less was asked this
year compared with last year. The vote would have
bee❑ 15,0001. less than last year had not the store-
lt,,eper's department been added to it. A decrease of
5,2001. would be found in the colonial ordnance establish-
ments, arid there were other diminutions at home. He be-
lieved every practical economy had been carried out. Tho
strictest orders had been given to the colonial authorities
to carry out reductions wherever practicable, and Go-

vernment had received reports—which reports had been
Ffi?ervisol by the g,:vern,;rs of the colonies, and the 1,4.1
h Crasepil on tiii4 lowest possible scale. For
• , o • y ear w., 223 0001., which was 6 0004
lc,s than 10,-,t. This vote had been under consideration,
and every reduction praeticehle had been insisted upon.
Woolwich establishment bad bean closely looked ir to,
and all expense 3 here after would be rigidly scrutinised.
The next vote was for stores. This vote had always
called for severe remarks from the advocates of economy.
The vote was 194,1901, being 16,7221. less than the pre-
vious year. For small arms the vote was 14,000/. less
than last year. Government had held their hand with
respect to the manufacture of small arms, in consequence
of the change of arms and improvements made on the
Continent. He had all these alleged improvements
under inspection and trial. He believed the improve-
ments, though very pretty to look at, would not, on
trial, be found of such importance as t respire
serious changes to be m ide. At all events the sub-
ject would have careful attention. He would not go
into particulars to prove that this amount was indispen-
sable. That would be seen if the items were carefully
and impartially looked into. The next vote was f
buildings, &c.; the amount was 470,3471., being 32,233/.
more than last year. The increase arose from the ne-
cessity for new works. An addition to the barracks at
Wellington was required, and this had helped to swell
the vote. Also at Woolwich the sum of 5,0004 was
required for as ordnance institution. This was con-
formable to the recommendation of the Committee, and
ho was sure great benefit would flow from the applica-
tion of this money.. There was also a new fort to be
built, and 10,001. had been required; and this money
he considered had been well laid out. Then, the sum
of 10,000/. fur hospitals (we understood) could not be
objected to. There was also a sum of 21,000/. for
the purchase of Carlisle Fort. This arose out of one
of those improvident bargains made by a firmer
Government. A rent of 1,0001. was paid to a gentle-
man for this fort. It was right, therefore, to buy up
the lease, as being the most economical mode of getting
rid of a bad bargain, which, heconsidered, ought to have
long ago been off the hands of the Government. It
would be found that the increase of 30,000/. was more
than balanced by reductions in other quarters. The
next vote was fur surveys of England. Ireland, and
Scotland. He was aware that objections had been raised
to this vote—he was prepared to meet those objections,
but not at that moment. The sum required was 65,000/.
a year, but a much larger grant would be required,
otherwise this service would be much cramped. If a
Committee were granted, it would be found that a much
larger sum was wanted than was usually demanded.—
(Laughter.) He was much interested in this matter,
and if Hon. Members could but see the new maps on
the reduced scale, they would find that nothing like
them was in the possession of other nations. The total
amount of the vote was 97,6544; this would include all
the sums required for scieat tic grants. He had no.v
gone through the items at length, and he again repeated,
if any vote were taken separately by his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Hume), and he pointed out where any large reduc-
tion could be made, he would be happy to meet him on
that point. The Hon. Gentleman would no doubt refer to
the colonies; but it was for Government to decide on
the expediency of keeping up establishments necessary
for the service of the country. The Hon. Member
would perhaps object to the stores, but he could assure
the Hon. Member every reduction was being made that
was practicable. He could tell his Hon. Friend that
every description of stores, particularly colonial stores, I
had been closely looked into. Some of the colonies,
instead of advocating a reduction in the amount of
stores, pointed out the necessity for an increase. He
might have gone into further details, but he would wait
until Hon. Members made their objections, and then ho
would reply to them in detail. The first vote was for
14,5731, one including commissioned and non-cam-
naissioned cffieers composing the civil, ordnance, and
military corps.
Mr. HUME looked at the total of the votes, and found
that only a saving of about 22 000/. was contemplated
out of an expenditure of 2,900,0001., and this he consi-
dered was much less than it ought to be. He had over-
hauled all the items, and he found there was great room
for retrenchment. He complained, that they shad
been going on accumulating stores until they had be-
come altogether useless. The expense of taking care
of them and the storage had the effect of trebling their
cost, and at the end they were entirely useless.
He wished the Committee to mark the rapil and enor-
mous increase in the expense of that department. In
1834, 5, end 6, the average was little more than
1,000,0001 sterling. Ia 1846 the amount was 2,300,0001;
in 1847, 2 900,0004 ; in 1848, 3,000,0001.; in 1549,
when some little ecanotuy was forced upon them, it fell
to 2,300,0001; in 1850 it was 2,400,0001.; and iu the
present year it amounted to the same sum of 2,400,0001.
In every one of the departments, at home and abroad,
connected with the ordnance, considerable increase had
taken place. The artillery and engineers were actually
higher now than they were during the war. Ile thought
it extremely objectionable that these branches of the
service never had their fair share of employment, al-
though kept up at so enormous an expense. At the
same time he was extremely gratified to find the great
diminution that had taken place in the number of punish-
ments. It showed that in proportion as they attended
to the morel instruction of the soldiers in the same pro-
portion would the men be steady and well conducted.
He was an advocate for the removal of the office from
Pall-mall; it was a great additional expense to the coun-
try, and was of no use whatever. He thought, under the
present improved system, when they could obtain any
supply of stores upon the shortest notice, that it was
very unadvisable to be aecumulating such an immense
quantity of materials, many of which were perishable.
Abroad more particularly the stores rapidly deteriorated.
He had shown the enormity of this vote, and the man-
ner in which it had been doubled within the last few
years, and he believed it was all owing to the apathy
and indifference of the House of Commons.

Mr. WILLIAMS said if he took the period of 1829
to 1839, including the Administrations of the Dukeof
Wellington, Earl Grey, and Lord Melbourne, it would
be found that the number of men was only 8,550 at an
expense of 1,546,0001.; while the Hon. and Gallant
Member now asked for 14,571 men, at a cost of
2,411,0001,, exclusive of dockyard battalions and coast-
guard.

- The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to:-
712,582/. to defray the expenses of the pay, allow-
ances, &c., of the ordnance corps.
268,257/. commissariat and barrack supplies.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether any alterations
had been made in the commissariat departments, in con-
sequence of the evidence taken before the Committee of
last year?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that inquiries were on foot in the different commissariat
offices to ascertain how far reductions might be made in
them.

Mr. WILLIAMS suggested that considerable saving
might be effected in the reduction of barrack-masters, or
in a cons lidation of their offices.
Colonel ANSON remarked that the number of bar-
rack-masters had been considerably reduced. I❑ 1835
there were 104, while for this year there were but 91.
The vote was then agreed to.
75,950/. for the expenses of the Ordnance-office.—
Agreed to. _ _

•
295,7501. to defray the expenses of estahNshments at
home and abroad.—Agreed to.

122,8001. for wages-at home and abroad.—Agreed to.
194,909/. for Ordnance stores for land and sea.—Agreed
to.

470,3471. for expense of works, buildings, and repairs.
Agreed to.
97,6541. for scientific grants.--Agreed to.
Mr. REYNOLDS moved that the Chairman now re-
port progress. lle wished to know whether Government
intended going on t.o•night with two Bills on the paper—
the Medietil Charities (Ireland) Bill and the Valuation
(Ireland) Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not intend to proceed
to-night with the% M.,,dical Charities Bill.
Sir %V. SOMERVILLE proposed to commit the Va-
luation Bill pro forma, but would not fix the Committee
till after Easter.

Mr. REYNOLDS then sithdrew his motion for re-
porting progress.
173,2481. for the non-effective service.—Agreed to.

50,0001. on account of civil contingencies.
Mr. HUME said, that before consenting to this' vote
be should like to hare some account of the expenditure
of last Seal's vote._

Colonel SI BTIIORP looked on the vote with suspi-
cion. A vote for civil contingencies might include a
great many objectionable items. It might, for instance,
have some re!erence to that mean, miserable Crystal
Palace.—(A laugh.) It was dangerous to pass a vote
on account of this kind, as it was not easy to get money
back when once voted. Holifast was a good dog.—
(Lsughter.)
Mr. HUAI?, as.ured the Gallant Colonel that not one
farthing of this vote was for the Crystal Palace.
The vote was then agreed to.
The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave to sit again.
BORNEO.

Lord PALMERSTON asked Mr. Hume to postpone
his motion on the following day, for inquiry into certain
proceedings on the west coast of Borneo, until after the
arrival of Sir J. Brook, who was coming over to this
country. The Hon. Member must be aware that the
motion involved a personal charge against that indivi-
dual, and it would, therefjre, bo only giving him a fair
opportunity of ausweriing any such to wait until his ar-
rival here.

Mr. HUME said it was a question of principle, not of
personality, with him. Although he had not taken a
great deal of trouble to get his notice a good place on
the list, he had no objection to postpone it at the Noble
Lord's desire.—(Hear.) However, he would take the
earliest opportunity after Sir J. Brooke's arrival of in-
troducing the matter again.—(Hear.)
The Mutiny Bill and Marine Mutiny Bill were thtn
severally' read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted this day.
The CJininittee on Ways and Moans was postponed.
The Prisons (Scotland) Bill was read a sec end time,
and the Com miLtpe appointed fur Monday, the 2d of May'.
Mr. LABOUCHERE, in moving the second reading
of the Steam N4vigation Bill, said it was right it should
be before the House and the country for some time before
it was considered in Committee, which he did not pro-
pose to take until after Easter.
Mr. FIUME asked, ought it not to be aCommittee up-
stairs?

Mr. LABOUCHERE said, if it should be the general
wish he had no objection.
The Bill was then read a second time, and tho. Co-
mmittee fixed for the 2d of May.
The second reading dale Medical Charities (Irehind)
Bill was postponed to this dmy.
The Committee on the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill was
fixed for the 2d of May.
The Valuation (Iceland) Bill w*s committed pro forma.
The Apprentices and Servants' Bill was read a third
time and passed.

The second reading of the Metropolis Buildings Bill
was deferred until Friday next.
The second reading of the Goneral Board of Elev.lol
Bill was pobtponed.
The second reading of the Acts of Parliament Abbre-
viation Act Rene Bill waa also pqstponed.
RETURNS OF PROPERTY AND INCOME TAX.

Mr. BOOKER then rose, pursuant to notice, to move
for the folloxing papers:-
1. It 7iturn, in tabular form, of the amount of income
assessed to the property and income tax under SAtedillo
D, for the years 1815, 1813. 1846, and 1849 or 1850,
distinguishing each year separately, for the districts
comprising the whole Df the metropolis, viz, the city of
London, the Inns of Court, the Liberty of the Rolls, the
whole of Westminster, also th© Tower Hamlets division,
the Edmonton division, the Finsbury division or district,
the Holborn division or district, Bloomsbury, the Ken-
singtorrdivision or district, the Gnre division or dis,ric!,
the Brentford division, and the Spi:lthorne division, all in
the county of Middlesex; also, the Black-heath Hundred,
East Brixton and West Brixton, East Brixton the third
division, the borough of Southwark, Camberwell, Peck-
ham, St. Paul, Deptford, Streatham, Newington, and
Kingston Hundred, situate in the county of Surrey; also,
Blackheath and Little and Lessness district, in the
county of K-int.

Also, this return in abstract, in tabular form, under
one general head.

2.A like return to No. 1, for the districts comprising
the whole of the towns of Manchester and Salford,
Liverpool, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Dadley, full,
Huddersfield, Bradford, Wakefield, Macclesfi.•ld,' Hali-
fax, Elnburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Merthyr
Tidfyl, and Swansea, separately, and for the like periods.
3. Return, in tabular form, of the net revenue re•
ceived from the property and income tax under Schedule
A, in the years 1849 and 1850. distinguishing each year,
and, separately, each head of property from which the
revenue is obtainad, and also distinguishing England and
Wales from Scotland. •
4. A like return of the net revenue received under
Schedule B for the same period, and distinguishing Eng-
land and Wales from Scotland.

5. Return, in tabular form, of the amount of real pro-
perty, assessed to the income and property tax under
Schedule A, in the years 1915, 1843, 1846, and 1848, dis-
tinguishing each year, in the districts comprising the
whole of the metropolis in dist,i2ts or divisions, as in
No. 1; distinguishing the description of property under
each head on which the assessment is made.
And, also, this return in abstract and tabular form
under one general head.

In making-that motion he was not influenced by motives
of vague curiosity; he was only anxious to obtain infor-
mation of a valuable and important character. No matter
what Government was in office, it was material to the
people of this country to know what he sought for. Mr.
Villiers, whose annual motions in that House were an
excellent example to the Protectionists—(Hear, hear)--
in 1845, had obtained a return upon motion containing
375 folio pages, and furnishing every item of the amount
assessed in every parish of the United Kingdom under a
certain schedule. He did not see what objection there
should be to the production of the returns he sought for
—as what he wished was to see how that income-tax
bore upon the industry sad property of the country. It
was intimated that certain returns were only up to 1848,
and could not be brought to 1851, because they were only
made trieanially in the country. Now, what he parti-
cularly wanted to know was, what depreciation had
taken place during the years 1849 and 1850, in that par-
ticular description of property about which the Govern-
ment seemed desirous of withholding all information.
He believed that during the last two years it would Lel
found short, that sort of property. By a former return
made he found that the assesiment of the entire country
amounted to 34.000,0001., while in London it reached

16,000,0001. The Hon. Member, after observing upon
several statistics connected with his motion, concluded
by submitting it to the House.

Mr. SPOO:NER. seconded the motion.

Colonel SIBTHORP was understood to express his
satisfaction that the lion. Member had moved for thebe
returns.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER inti-
mated his intention to oppose the greater part of the
Hon. Member's motion, particularly that for returns
under Schedule B. The returns in tho latter part of the
Hon. Member's motion he had no objection to. He
should give the returns in Schedule D in the district
towns to which he had alluded. So jealous was Parlia-
mentin former times of exposing those returns that, in
1815, all the papers connected with the income-tax were
ordered to be burned.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to
the smaller districts and parishes for which he sought
returns, the Hon. Member might obtain the same infor-
mation,which he had in the returns in his hand from
the poor-rate valuation. As to Schedule B, there
was only one objection to was impossible to
make it out in the manner that it was asked for.
There was, however, one mode by which it might be
obtained by the Hon. Gentleman, and that
income-tax.—
by giving
e tUnless, then,
him his support for the renewal of the
(Laughter.) In case of its being renewed there would
tbheealrieo-n. Gentleman a nt o
nf
s supported Schedule t h
B to 1851. income-tax,
m a,x
h ecould
not have the information he desired. All the returns
re-assessment
that could be given he was perfectly willing to place in
his hands.

Mr. HENLEY hoped that the Hon. Gentleman would
not press for the returns in Schedule B, because they
would give false information; for those returns would
not show that which had actually occurred—a deprecia-
tion in the value of landed property.
Mr. SPOONER trusted the returns would not be
pressed for. He wished to know if, in certain cases,
where a reduction in rent was allowed, the income-tax
had not been remitted?

Mr. BOOKER said, after the objections made by two
Hon. Members, he should not press for the returns. He
should, therefore, not press his motion to a division.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated,
in reply to the Hon. Member (Mr. Spooner), that ap-
peals had been made to the Commissioners against as-
sessments where the rents had been reduced by land-
lords. He did not know that the reductions had been
actually made, but upon an application being made to
him, he said " yes, they ought to be made."
The motion was then withdrawn.
STEAM NAVIGATION TO INDIA.
Upon the nomination of the Committee to consider
this subject,
Mr. LIENLEY objected to the nomination of Mem-
bers who were interested in the subject. To raise the
question, be objected to the name of Mr. Willcox.
Viscount JOCELYN said, that in nominating the
Committee he considered it of importance to have Mem-
bers upon it who were able to give information on the
subject. They would obtain such information, and get
more rapidly through their business, by naming Mem-
bers who were interested in the question.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he considered it better to have persons interested in
the subject on the Committee—that that should be done
which had been done by the Noble Lord, putting on the
Committee all the parties who were interested.
The Committee was appointed.
Viscount JOCELYN cave notice of his intention to
move that Mr. Henley be added to the Committee.

Mr. LIATCLIELLobtained leave to bring in a Bill for
amending and regulating process and practice in the civil
bill courts in Ireland.

The [louse then adjourned at a Quarter past One
o'cleck.

COURT CIRCULAR.

The Queen and Prince Albert honoured the Prin-
cess's Tn( Litre with their presence yesterday evening.
The Royal suite consisted of the Countess of I.)sart,
Hon. Lucy Kerr, Lord Elphinstone, Lord Alfred Paget,
&lid Colonel Bouvcrie.

His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horse-
back yesterday morning. attended by Colonel Bouverie.
His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, attended by
Mr. Birch, touk a drive yesterday morning in an open
carriage.

Their Royal Highnesses the Princess Royal, the
Prince Allred, and the younger members of the Royal
Family took their aooustomed pony and walking exer-
cise yesterday, in the garden of Buckingham Palace.
The Marquis of Bteadalbane and Sir R,,derick Mur-
chison had an interview with Lord John Russell, at his
official residence in Downing-street, yesterday, and pre-
sented an appeal from the British Association for the
ensure
Scotland. w t h
n a
The reasonable
Briti time
the
completion Advancement
grant o
ri. a o
af t
reap
too
Associ-
ation Science, made a similar appeal in 1834, when that body
first visited Scotland, and yet a sixtieth part only of that
kingdom has been mapped within the intervening
sixteen years. The other members of the committee,
the Duke of Argyll, Sir David Brewster, and Professor
James Forbes are in Scotland. The memorial was
backed by the cordial approval of the Dukes of Rich-
mond, Buccleucli, and Roxburgh, and Lords Egliuton,
Cawdor, Miuto, and mAny proprietors in Scotland.
Mr. Beale, Mr. J. Ellis, and Mr. Carter, a deputation
from the Midland Railway Company, transacted business
yesterday with the Railway Commissioners, at the office
of the thud of Trade. Mr. Saunders and Mr. flint,
from the Great Wqstern Railway Company, also trans-
acted business with the Railway Commissioners.
A deputation, including Mr. J. Gratrix and 511%J..
b.
Collins, had an interview yesterday with the Commis-
sioners of Railways, at the office of the Board of Trade.
to f in favour of a sufficient Par-
liamentaryA
deputation ou the subject of the proposed repeal of
the certificate duty on attorneys, solicitors, proctors, and
others, consisting of Lord Robert Grosvenor, M.P., Mr.
Charles Cowan, M.P., Mr. Richard Harrison, President,
and Mr. Benjamin Austen and Mr. John Coverdale,
members of the Councilof the Incorporated Law Society,
and Mr. Robert Maugham, Secretary, had an. interview
with Lord John Russell, at his offizial residence in
Downing street yesterday.
Dispatches were received yesterday , at the Colonial-
office from the Governor of New South Wales.

PARlS.—Extract of a letter,
IN
success was achieved here last
• ht by a young
night Italian composer, M. Alary, with a new
dLeT re 11ozze 9 arklin '
opera buffa,entitle . . t , p g with sprightliness
• ty from
and gale . ,
the
beginning o end. Lablache, as an unfor-
tunateior hand
lover, suitor
~of La Sontag, plays and
datleTdASLuundNay°:—PßAA
sings with a,terse and gaiety indescribable. Imagine La-
blache dancing the polka to propitiate a capricious mistress,
and guess the roars! MAcratne Sontag is also admirably
anite4Land marbled Alary's music most enchantingly. The
audience, generally so cold on first representations, insisted
on the composer coming forward twice during the representa-
tion, and also at the close r f the opera, NVith the principal
artistes. The curtain fell amid a perfect hurricane of trans-
port on the part of the public' occasioned by Madame
s splendid eaecution of the finale. The air is that of
'the
polk. a above-nrientione 1, but with variations so brilliant
ip -themselves, and sung with such thrilling power by this
It ondroueVocalit4 airto excite an enthusiasm we never saw
suacassed. The piec'eia', got up in a style of elegance, rare
evtk ift Pal* The house was crammed to the very roof."
The Rev. T. William Herbert has been appointed
to the Chaplaincy of the Devonport Borough Prisons, and to
the curacy of ;2.t. Michael, Stoke Dameral.