The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(`imaDAr).
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat oa the woolsack
at five o'clock.

PETITIONS.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented petitions
from Weston-Super-Mare and other places against the
opening of places of amusement on the Lord's-day.
THE FRAUDS IN THE SUPPLY OF MORTARS.
The Earl of DERBY—My lords, seeing my noble
friend the Secretary of State for the War Department in
his place, I will put the question to him of which I have
given notice, hoping that it may be for the convenience
of the public service that I should have an answer. And
I hope I may be forgiven if, in putting the question, I
should be guilty of a slight irregularity in referring to
what is reported to have taken place elsewhere upon the
subject to which I wish to direct attention. My lords,
it is said that on Friday last the Clerk of the Ordnance,
in his place in Parliament, when assigning reasons
why the Government had taken upon itself the manufac-
ture of arms, stated, amongst other things, with regard to
the supply of ordnance and artillery, that he had greatly
to complain of some of the contractors to whom the
Government had been compelled to resort for the sup-
ply of artillery, but that more especially there was one
firm—whose name the right hon. gentleman did not dis-
close—which hat supplied for the use of her Majesty's
troops no less than five mortars in which there had been
inserted pieces of iron for the purpose of concealing
flaws that had taken place in the casting of them. Now,
I am quite your lordships will be of opinion that charges
of this kind should not be made unless they are capable
of being re-affirmed and entirely substantiated. On the
other hand, I am sure you will equally agree that if such
charges can be substantiated, there is no punishment too
great for those who have trifled in such a manner with
the most sacred duty by exposing the lives of her Ma-
jesty's troops to the most serious consequences. (Hear,)
Your lordships will, no doubt, recollect the excitement
caused some few years agO at the charges brought
in this house by the noble duke then Secretary of
State, in connection with certain contracts for hay
aid straw intended for the troops on foreign service.
Serious, however, as such frauds were, they are compa-
ratively innocuous when put in comparison with frauds
practised in reference to the heavy artillery and mortars,
upon which the whole operations of war might be de-
pendent for success. And not only do frauds perpetrated
in such instances render the particular implements of
war entirely unfit for the public requirements, but they
actually render their service a task of imminent danger
to her Majesty's troops. My lords, all I can say is this,
that the parties guilty of such frauds are guilty of a
crime, little short, if at all, of high treason. (Hear.)
Well, I think this accusation having been publicly made,
I am justified in asking my noble friend—first, whether
he is prepared in his place in Parliament to re-affirm.and
substantiate the charge ; and, secondly, whether, if the.
charge can be substantiated, he has any objection to
euention the name of the firm guilty of so gross a viola-
tion of duty. Isay that is due, not only to the firm that
is inculpated, but to all the othet firms that may have
been suspected of having neglected their duty.
I will ask, then. is it trim that mortars have been sup-
plied to her Majesty's Government by a contractor, in
which pieces of iron have been let is for the purpose of
concealing flaws in the casting of them ? And, next,
what is the name of the firm guilty of so criminal a dere-
liction of duty ? But, my lords, I would go a little fur-
ther to say that, whatever may be the countervailing ad-
vantages of the contract system, it is clearly more open
than any other to fraud and abuse. You may very often
find that while you think you are applying to the cheap-
est market you are in reality buying in the dearest mar-
ket, on account of the inferiority of the article that is
purchased. Take care, then, to remember that there is
no system which requires so much careful and accurate
supervision as the system of Government contracts.
For my own part, I think that frauds of such a character
as this could not for a moment escape detection. The
whole thing appears to be so bungling an operation,
that it is beyond possibility to expect it would
pass without detection. Now, I wish to know, in
the next place, when the discovery of the fraud
was made, and by whom it was made ? Whether it was
before the mortars were sent out for the use of the troops
in the field ? And, lastly, I will ask what steps her Ma-
jesty's Government have taken to bring the guilty par-
ties to condign punishment ? (Hear.)
Lord PANMURE—My lords, I quite agree with my
noble friend that a fraud of this description is one which
cannot be passed over without, in the first place, the
strictest investigation ; and without, in the next place, if
brought home to the guilty parties, having the names of
those guilty parties publishel to the world. I am sorry to
say there is too good ground for the statement made by
nay right hon. friend the Clerk of the Ordnance on Friday
night. That statement was to the effect that some mortars
which had been ordered from a certain firm had been de-
livered in an incomplete state, and were found to have
been tampered,with in order that they might escape
the vigilance of the authorities of the department.
My lords, the history of the case is as follows.
But first I would mention that happily no injury.
has occurred to any of her Majesty's troops in con-
sequence of the fraud which has been practised. Nor
has it appeared that a single mortar that has been ap-
proved of on examination by the authorities has after.
wards been discovered to be in any way incomplete.
Now, with respect to the five mortars to which my right
hon. friend alluded to on Friday night, I may state that
on Thursday experiments with regard to them took
place ; and it was the result of those experiments that
induced my right hon. friend to make mention of the
matter. These five mortars formed part of a contract
entered into by her Majesty's Government with the
house of Messrs. Grisell, of the Regent's Canal Iron-
works. One of them went so far as to be able to stand
the proof to which it was subjected at the Woolwich
Arsenal. And after undergoing that trial, it and another
were sent down te Shoeborynees, there to be submitted
to further proof before being put into store for the pub-
lic use ; after ten rounds had been fired one of them
burst ; it did not go to pieces, but it opened out, and
that led to the detection of the insertion of a piece
of iron behind the breech of the gun—a piece of
metal introduced in the roost skilful manner to cover a
fraud. The noble earl says that this could scarcely be
done without incurring the risk of certain detection :
but I cm assure him that the piece was Jet in with so
much skill that nothing short of the utmost vigilance
could detect the insertion. This experiment led to the
immediate examination of the other mortar, and there
also it was found that a piece had been inserted at the
same point. A third out of the five bad been already
rejected by the authorities at Woolwich Arsenal, whilst
regardsas the fourth it showed the same evidence of
fraud as the other=. As to the fifth and last, it burst
altogether in an experiment, not because of any flaw
proved to have existed in it, but because it was made of
metal unfit for the purpose. My lords, such are the
facts of the case, and the result is this : in the first
place, as a matter of course, these mortars are rejected ;
and in the second place, as a matter of course, the firm
inculpated has been erased from the list of contractors to
whom future Government contracts may be open. But
whether it will bo in the power of the Government to
proceed legally against the parties is a point which I
have not as yet been able to ascertain. I may add, I
believe my right hon. friend mentioned this fact, not as
a reason why the Government should establish a foundry
of its own, but rather in justification of their having
taken that step. I think that is a plan which it would
be well to adopt even if no fraud had been perpetrated.
I am not prepared to go so far as to say that either in
the manufacture of great guns or small arms the Govern-
ment should entirely trust to its efforts. To a c rtain
extent certainly it should he independent, but to a
certain extent also it should be in a condition to employ
the trade, so as to keep pace with the trade, and become
acquainted with all the improvements that are going on.
The intention of the Government is to establish at Wool-
wich a foundry in which they may cast their own mor-
tars and their own heavy armaments, and to be able,
from the mode in which those armaments are there
tested, to feel assured the guns and mortars issued thence
will bo fit for the service marked out for them,
without having to go through the very hard trial to
which they are now submitted under the contract sys-
tem, and which requires that they should be fired off a
great number of times. We hope so to test the metal of
which the mortars may be made—we hope so to secure
the mode in which they are cast, that by taking one
mortar in twenty and testing it until it bursts, we can
rest assured as to the trustworthiness of the remaining
nineteen. And it cannot be denied that this matter of
testing is accompanied with great difficulty in the case of
other articles besides artillery. My noble friend oppo-
site (the Earl of Hardwicke) knows very well that it may
be the last feather that will break an anchor. An anchor
may go to sea thoroughly tested, and after all prove so
unreliable that it snaps on the first strain. I have, how-
ever, no hesitation in Paying that under the circum-
stances I think my noble friend was quite justified in
demanding that the name of the contractor should be
given up, and Ilikewise in requiring an assurance that
that contractor shall not be employed again. But I
am not prepared to say, not being sufficiently informed,
whether the violation which has been perpetrated
aelounts to infringe„ eiat of the law. Having made this
etatemeat, I feel it my duty not to forbear from saying,
that, with reference to two other persons with whom we
have dealt largely, no ground of complaint can be
alleged--I refer to Mr. Hood, of Lowmoor Ironworks,
and Mr. Walker, of Oakleaf Ironworks. Both of these
gentlemen have executed contracts for heavy armaments
with perfect success, and their guns and mortars have
withstood the severest trials to which they have been sub-
itted.

The Earl of DERBY—I confess, ray lords, that the
statement of the noble lord would have been more satis-
factory to me if he had gone further, and told us what
had been done with a view to proceeding against the con-
tractor implicated ; and if it should turn out upon in-
quiry into the state of the law, that the law allowed of

proceedings being instituted, we might rest assured that

that step would be taken.

Lord PANMURE was understood to say that the
matter was still under inquiry.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS BILL.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY, in moving the
oecoud reading of this bill, thought it only neeessary to
call their lordships' attention to its important nature,
affecting as it did 18,090,000/. worth of property. At
present these statistics were known only to a few; but
lo great was their national importance that they ought
to be open to the entire country. The noble lord then