The Sun.
London, England, 1856-07-04 00:00:00

GENERAL BEITSON.

Col. DUNNE said be had seen in the Times a portion
of a correspondence between General Beatson, who
commanded the Osmanli horse, and the Secretary-at-
War. He wished to know whether there would be any
objection to lay that correspondence on the table of the
house ?

Mr. PEEL said there would be an objection to the
production of the Correspondence, which was not yet
completed.
THE BISHOP OF NEW ZEALAND.

Sir J. PAKINGTON gave notice that he would to-
morrow put on the paper a question relative to some
support for the Bishop of New Zealand.
THE COUNTY COURTS.

Sir J. PAKINGTON said that as a good many gentle-
men were staying in town for the County Courts Bill, he
wished to know whether it would be taken on Monday.
Sir G. GREY said he bad spoken to the Attorney-
General on the subject, and he said that he would bring,
it in in the course of a few days. There would be no
unnecessary delay in the matter. ,
WILLS AND ADMINISTRATIONS BILL.

Mr. MALINS wished to know whether it was in-
tended to proceed with the Wills and Administrations
Bid that night ? Oa Monday last he had a conversa-
tion with the Solicitor-General on the subject, and hie
learned friend had informed him that he had arranged
with the hon. and learned gentleman the member fcr
SuffJlk (Sir F. Kelly) not to bring it on, as he (Sir F.
Kelly) was obliged to go into the country to atttn I a
cattle show or some county meeting. Since he (Mr.
Malins) had come down to the house that evening, he
had heard to his amazement that the bill was to be
brought on. That would be a very inconvenient course
for him, as he wished to speak on the question, and he
had conic down without his papers, on the faith of the
statement that it would be adjourned. (Laughter.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was exceedingly sori
that the communication which had been made by him
should have given rise to the slanderous imputations
upon the hon. and learned gentleman the member kr
Suffolk, that he preferred being at a cattle show to at-
tending to his duties in that house. (Laughter.) What
he stated to the hon. and learned gentleman when be
spoke to him on Monday was, that it the discussion in
which the house was then engaged terminated in time,
the Testau,entary Bill would be taken that (Thursday)
night, although it was not the first order of the day.
There was consequently some misapprehension on the
part of his hon. and learned friend.
Mr. MALINS said he should move that the bill be
read a second time that day six months, as he had a
great objection to it.
CROWN LANDS AND CHURCH EX PENSION.

Mr. WILLIAM'SZid that a few minutes since the
Secretary of the Treasury stated in answer to a, question
put to him, that the rote of 10,000/, out of the Crown
lands for the purposes of Church extension was to be
left over for the present session. He (Mr. Williams)
had never before known such an attempt made to get
10,0001. by wierepresentation. It was to be granted
out of the Crown lands for the purpose of building
churches. Now, all the Crown property had been sur-
rendered to the public, and there was now no Crown
property available for churches, or any such purposes.
He thought it would be monstrous to bring forward a
vote of this kind to build churches in connection with
the Establishment, when the Church enjoyed property
amounting to millions tier annum. They should take"
example from the Dissenters, and provide for the build-
ing of their own churches out of their own pockets. In
the district he reided in they had built three or four new
churches at their own expense, and had taxed them-
selves not only to pay for them but also to keep them
up. There was no other source than the public taxes
from which this vote could be made, and it was nothing
short of a misrepresentation to say that it was to come
out of the Church property.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was not the intention of her Majesty's Government to
propose that vote this session, and he should therefore
be wasting the time of the house if, under such circum-
stances, he entered upon its discussion. The hon. mem-
ber for Lambeth was quite mistaken as to the circum-
stances of the vote. When the proper time arrived the
circumstances would be laid fully before the house.
Mr. lIADFIELD thought this was the first of a
series of measures for granting public money for Church
purposes. But for the watchfulness of the hon. member
for Lambeth this vote would have been persevered in,
notwithstanding the very serious objections that could
be urged against it.
ROAYL MILITARY ACADEMY.

Mr. RICH asked the Under Secretary for War if it was
the intention of the Government to continue the pre-
sent charge of 1251. a year for the education of the sons
of civilians at the Royal Military College', when, as ap-
peared by the supplementary army estimate, the total
cost of a cadet does not exceed 751. a year ?
Mr. PEEL said the hon. gentleman bad evidently
fallen into an error, caused probably by an estimate
which had been laid upon the table, and which was for
three-quarters instead of a whole year.
PRIZE MONEY.
Colonel DUNNE asked the intentions of the Govern-
ment as to advising her Majesty to grant compensation
to the army engaged in the siege for stores, &c., taken
from Sebastopol ?
Lord PALMERSTON said that in former years, when
property taken from an enemy went to the Crown, an
equivalent was given in money to the troops who were en-
gaged in the ca,ptura. In the present case, the property
taken was so exceedingly small that, if divided, it would
not yield more than half-a-crown for each officer and six
pence for each man. If granted, it would be considered
rather a mockery than a reward.
THE SCIENTIFIC CORPS OF THE ARMY.
Captain L. VERNON inquired of the Under-Secre-
tary for War whether it was intended as a rule of promo-
tion in the Scientific Corps of the army that no subaltern
officer, however he may have distinguished himself in
that rank, can be advanced to a brevet majority until he
shall have again subsequently distinguished himself in
the rank of captain ; and to call attention to the inexpe-
diency of such a regulation ?
Mr. PEEL said that, under certain circumstances' a
subaltern officer who had distinguished himself could be
advanced to a brevet majority.
Mr. BAILLIE thought the explanation given with
respect to the Military College of Sandhurst was very
unsatisfactory. He believed that the son of a civilian
could not be educated at Sandhurst much under 200!. a
year, and this excess went to keep up large salaries, for
which there was no occasion.
- SUPPLY.
The house then went into committee of supply.
On the vote of 6,9121. for works and furniture of the
• British embassy houses abroad,
Mr. WISE considered this a most improper and mine-
_

cessary expenditure, and he trusted that e, different sys
tern would be adopted under Sir B. Hall's management.
Tee committee proved that at Paris the ambassador's
butler supplied the fuel, awl Mr. Albano, the architect,
found the greatest difficulty in dealing with that domes-
tic. Representations were made to the ambassador,
and it resulted in the dismissal of the butler. These
and similar circumstances connected with the embassy
at Paris detained Mr. Albano in that capital 530 days,
of course at an enormous erpense. Since 1815 the
house had been asked for 127,5031. for this enaba'ssy
house at Paris, and he confessed that to him the whole
affair appeared a mystery. Having expended all this
nionen Mr. Albano stated that 20,0001. had not put the
embassy house hi repair. The timber was rotten, there
was not a window cr a door that would shut well, be-
cause the frames were rotten, and the floor; were inse-
cure. This was a lesson, to the Government not to pur-
chase embassy houses on the continent. During the last
few years 1,6001. bad been paid for the decoration of the
chapel in the embassy house. People went into the chapel
twice every Sunday, and that tended very much to the
destruction of the furniture. Bishop Luscornbe, a short
time before he died, offered a very excellent chapel for an
annuity. If that had. bean accepted the Government
would have got it for one year's annuity, but of course
the ' Government could not foresee that the good
bishop would die within a year afterwards. The next
portion of the vote was for the embassy house at Mad-
rid, on which 5741. lied been expended, while the archi-
tect's expenses were 7561. ' And the description the ar-
chitect gave of it was somewhat entertaining. He said
that it was in a very, bad ata,f4,—thatjt.vis
-o.s.erstid,.and that if-.'ker'''44t4OH,vet...i.4.oent am-ain
Ins. sa~3pr
•

Air, STAFFORD vindicated Sir William Molesworth
from some attacks which had-been made upon Lim in
the course of a previous discussion in reference to this
matter,

Sir. B. HALL said there was a very bad system in

the office when he went there, but SirWilliain Moles.
worth was not to blame for it. He had endeavoured to
put a stop to lite ill-arrangements which had hitherto
prevailed. With regard to the estimates they would
henceforth be presented in a different form.
Mr. HENLEY eaid it was quite clear from the re-
port which had been made by the committee that there
was au imprivernent in the office over which Sir B. Hall
presided. He had not gathered from the right hon.
baronet what was likely to be the prospect for the future
as to this house in Paris. No ore seemed to be respon-
sible, and if the whole embassy were to walk away there
would be no. ono responsible. From the report of the
committee it would appear that no tradesmen in Paris
were to be trn:lted, and that a wholesale system of swind-

ling was carried ,cn there. Private persons who visited
Paris had never been subjected to the difficulties which
seemed to have fallen upon our official men.

Sir B. HALL said, that as soon as the session was over
he should send one of ,his officers to ascertain what was
necessary to be done to the house, and to make a report.
There would be no expense to the country except his
travelling expenses to and fro. He would not have any
interest beyond the performance of his duty.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought the architect's expenses in
the case of the house at Madrid were enormous, and he
trusted the house would never again bear of such a dis-
graceful and discreditable vote.
Admiral WALCOTT thought the committee did not
look the architect's expenses full in the face. He believed
they had been the means of saving money instead of
incurring- a
The vote was Agreed to.
On the vote of $271. for the maintenance of British
and Foreign cemeteries at Madrid,
Mr. WISE thought I.hat sending Mr. Albano to Mad-
rid to build a wall round the cemetery and a little lodge
was absurd. Mr. Alb&t.o dn.' not perform his duty when
be went to Madrid in referereoe to the embassy ; but
went especially on the business of the cemetery. Our
Government had consuls there, and if consuls could be
entrusted with the enlistment of troops they could cer-
tainly be entrusted with the duty of. erecting a wall
round a cemetery.
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of 228,9501. for defraying the expenses of
the disembodied militia,
Col. NORTH said that while labouring men in fustian
jackets received 3s. or 33. 6d. a day, they were now call-
ing upon serjeant-majorr, who were only second below
commissioned officeis, to serve for the miserable pittance
of is. 10d. a day. He feared that if this system were
pursued it would be difficult to obtain such officers when
their services were next required. If the iren were paid
as soldiers it might be expected that they would act as
soldiers, but they certainly would not so act upon the
miserable pittance which it was now proposed to give
them. The hon. and gallant gentleman proceeded to
call attention to some of the grievances of the quarter-
masters and other officers. Unless the permanent staff
of regiments were kept up as true soldiers, and com-
pelled to attend parade periodically, they would never
be efficient.

Mr. F. PEEL stated that the pay of the embodied
militia was the same as the army ; but in the case of the
disembodied militia the rate of pay was very properly
lower than that of the army. When the militia was em-
bodied it was under the authority of the Horse Guards,
but when in a disembodied state came under the con-
trot of the Secretary of State for the Home Department,
and he could not see what advantage would accrue from
its being transferred to the War Department. With
regard to quartermasters, it was the intention of the
Government that those who had been appointed should
still remain on the permanent staff of the militia. He
thought it worthy of consideration whether the sugges•
tion thrown out by an hoe. member with respect to the
pay of the seijeants was deserving of consideration.
Lord C. HAMILTON expressed his opinion that the
country could not obtain value in return for the money
proposed to be expended on the militia. He thought
that great disappointment would be felt by the serjeants
who had been promoted for their good service while in
the militia, in consequence of the proposal which was
made by the Government with respect to their future pay.
Colonel BUCK felt grateful for the manner in which
the services of the militia had been acknowledged and
approved of by the House of Commons. It was grati-
fyicg to know that the whole of the men were volun-
teers, but the very fact of their being volunteers im-
posed greater difficulties and a larger amount of trou-
ble on the officers ; as under a system of compulsion
the men were provided for the officers, while under the
voluntary system the officers were obliged to find the
men themselves. Not only had they done so, but they
had supplied large numbers of men to the regular army.
(Hear.) He felt bound, however, to enter his protest
against the jobbery and feelings of personal interest
which in several cases interfered with the management
and control of the militia regiments, and mentioned a
case of this kind in which a militia regiment had been
called "the Second Devons," instead of the 45th or
21st, and also respecting the site selected for the artil-
lery practice, which had been arranged to suit the
convenience and interests of the lord•lieutenant of the
county of Devon, and into the details of which the
hon. member entered at some length. The hon. mem-
ber also called attention to the state of the fortifica-
tions at Devonport and the works there going on at
the lines, and said the only use of the works would be
to keep the people of Plymouth out of Devonport, for
they were all on that side of the town. He trusted that
in the next session they would have some commission
appointed to inquire into the state of the defences of the
country, and report upon their condition, in order that
the house might be guided in coming to decision ou the
subject of the votes which might be submitted to the
house.

Mr. MONSELL stated that Sir J. Burgoyne bad ap-
proved of the lines now in course of construction at De-
vonport. He also stated that the charges to which the
hon. member had alluded had been deliberately sanc-
tioned by the Board of Ordnance and the War-office.
Col. GILPIN complained that the paymasters and
subalterns of the militia regiments bad not been, as was
stated would be tha case, placed ou an equal footing.
Col. NORTH said he considered the case of the cap-
tains of the militia to be the hardest of all—(a laugh)—
inasmuch as they bad received no gratuity or allow-
ance whatever on the disembodiment, and there was
probably not one of the captains who would not leave the
force with a less of at least 501.
Mr.'COWAN called attention to the condition of the
adjutants, and thought theirs an exceedingly hard case—
(a laugh)—and he trusted that their complaints would
receive the attention of the Government. He wished to
know what course the Government intended to adopt re-
specting the mode of billeting the militia in Scotland.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that it would be much
better to havethe staff placed upon such a footing as to
Ibe entirely independent of their ordinary trade, and be
kept ready at any. time for the service of the country.

Sir J. Y. BULLER said that the lines now in course
of erection at Devonport were the most absurd that were
perhaps ever constructed, and they were discontinued
many years since by order of the Duke of Wellington,
and had only been recommenced within the last two
years. He impressed upon the Government the ne-
cessity of getting rid as far as they could of the pre-
sent system of billeting, though he did not think it
possible that the present system could be entirely
abandoned. By sending the young soldier to the pub-
lic-house habits of immorality were contracted, which
were most injurious both to the individual and to the
efficiency of the service. He also called attention to
the cases of the paymasters, adjutants, and captains of
the force under the present arrangements for the disem-
bodied militia.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Government were
fully sensible of the value of the services of the militia,
and were actuated by a desire to deal with them in the
spirit of fairness and liberality. He explained that the
case of the paymasters was not really so hard as had been
stated by honourable gentlemen. With respect to the
lines at Plymouth, a large extent of defence had been
for a great length of time marked out, and had not yet
been completed. , Latterly the subject had undergone
great consideration, and the Government had decided
that the whole line of the defences should be made good,
and he was far from thinking that they would be so un-
serviceable as hon, members had stated. With respect
to billeting the troops, there were only two other modes
of providing lodging if billeting were to be superseded,
either by barracks or by encampment. There were great
difficaltioa and great expenses in the way of providing

The vete was then agreed to, and the chairman was
ordered to report. progress. The house then resumed.
WILLS AND ADMINISTRATION BILL.
The order of the day having beers read for going into'
committee on this bill,
Mr. 'HENLEY said the court to be constituted under
this bill was to possess ail the powers of the Court of
Chanary and the powers of the courts of law in addition.
He was anxious to see when probate was granted that
everything within the bur corners of it should be dealt
with by the court. One beneficial change in the bill
since it had been originally introduced was that whiater
related to country distripta. (Hear.): It was imphssible
so,late an hour to go into the bill with any advantage,
it nig to deal with. the matter
:o'l'4 Antal thti•q4eirtion of the court of appeal should be
settled in such a way that the suitors could reach it
without incurring a ruinous expense. He trusted the
house would postpone the committee until Monday,
when the question of the appellate jurizelition would be
cemidered. It would be much better to settle that
question first, and he therefore moved that the house re-
selee its*:lf into committee on Tuesday next.
Mr. COLLIEF suewsted that it would be desirable
to proceed with ti ,e bill, reserving the points relative to
the Appellate Jurisdiction Bill.
Mr. M. CETAIVIBERS felt satisfied there had nct
been time given for hon. members to read this bill, which
was ma le up of three dist'oct bills. It would be impos-
sible to re'oprly discuss the bill that night, and on the
whole he th.)ught it would be b tter to postpone the
bill till next session.

Mr. ATHERTON hoped the house would allow the
bill to go into committee. He deplored the delay that had
occurred with reference to the bill ; but that was no rea-
son why further delay should tape place. Great advan-
tage would result from their proceeding with it that
night, if it was intended to pass the bill this session.
Mr. KEATING said be entertained doubts of the Go-
vernment proceeding with the bill this session, and there-
fore he considered no benefit would result from their going
into committee. The framer] of the clauses of this bill
never intended that the propositions of the hon. and
learner) member for Plymouth with reference to county
courts jurisdiction should be carried out.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he had fallen into
an error in ende tveuring to please all parties, for he
found there was no agreement b3tween any two gentle-
men on this subject. He was at a loss to know what to
do. Besides being assailed before and in the rear, he was
subject to the objectioes of the hon, baronet the mem-
ber for Carlisle, whose opiniors on this subject het (the
SolicitoleGenera.l) thought he ha l embodied in the bill.
His object had been to make the subject acceptable to
a!!, but having as it appeared failed, he knew not how
to act. He hoped the house would therefore aquit him
of any intention to force through a bill they bad not had
time to consider. He had another enemy, " time," to
contend against, and therefore he acceded to the request
of the member for Oxfordshire' to postpone it till Tues-
day, when he hoped he should receive the assistance of
the house in passing the bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the faculty of pleasing every
one had not had the desired effect in this instance. He
said that a change of opinion had taken place in the
mind of the promoter of this bill, as well as in the minds
of. others, which showed it was desirable then to proceed
with it, and if he had been correctlyinformed, he believed
it was the intention of the hon. and learned gentleman
to raise the district probate from 1,5001. to 2,0001., in
accordance with pledges given out of doors. Sir James
then entered into exp'anations with regard to his change
of opinion on this question, and retorted that changes as
great and more important appeared to have taken posses-
sion of the hon. and learned gentleman's mind.
Mr. MALINS appealed to the hon. and learned gen-
tleman to withdraw this measure. It contained 157
clauses, and as it was impossible properly to consider
them this session, if the hon. and learned gentleman re-
fused to withdraw it, he (Mr. Malins) should move that
the house go into committee on the bill that day six
months. The members of that house and the country,
from the late period the bill was printed, had not yet had
time to consider its provisions. He was of opinion the
county courts were not adapted for the transaction of this
business, and he should oppose any bill containing such a
provision. He suggested that the bill ehould be with-
drawn, and the subject early next session be submitted
to a select committee to devise some general measure on
the subject.
Sir E. PERRY said be considered the subject had
already been fully coneiticred by select comitittees, and,
therefore, it was unnecessary to refer it to another com-
mittee, and he hoped the house would not agree to the
suggestion of the hon. and learned member for Walling-
ford. He (Sir E. Perry) approved of jurisdiction being
given in this matter to county courts, which, since their
appointment, had given universal satisfaction to the
country,
Mr, HADFIELD said that not one great measure
had been passed this session, and he asked the Govern-
ment to state whether they would give this bill, which
was cf the utmost importance to the country, their
support ? It was lamentable to find that the greatest
lawyers were the greatest obstacles to this useful measure.
The further consideration of the bill was adjourned
until Tuesday.
CHURCH BUILDING COMMISSION BILL.

On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. HADFIELD objected on account of the lateness
of the hour. It was impossible for the house to give it
the consideration it required. It was unnecessary to con-
tinue and impossible to continue tha 19 complicated acts
which were now in force on this subject. He moved
that the house should go into committee that day three
months.

Sir G. GREY said that the object of the bill was not
to continue the Church Building Acts as the hon. gentle-
man seemed to suppose. Those acts were permanent,
and the only purpose of the present measure was to con-
tinue the commission which was necessary for their ad-
ministration, but was only a temporary body. The bill
proposed to transfer the powers now exercised by a corn-
mission appointed for this object alone to the Ecclesias-
tical Commissioners—a step which was recommended by
a committee of that house which had considered the sub-
ject, and which had the advantage of consolidating in
the hands of one body of commissioners the powers with
regard to the admittiAraticn of Church property now
exercised by several.
The house then divided, when there were—
For going into committee .., 159
Against
Majority —lso
The house then went into committee.
Tile various clauses were agreed to without amend-
ment, and the bill was reported.
The house then went into committee pro forma on the
Vaccination Bill. Certain amendments were introduced,
and the house resumed.

MILITIA BALLOTS SUSPENSION BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
MAGDALEN HOSPITAL BATH BILL.

This bill was read a second time.
ENDOWED SCHOOL AT MOULTON BILL.
This bill wa-s read a second time.
PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was recAnuitted for the insertion of amend-
ments, which were agreed to.

METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT ACT
. AMENDMENT (No. 2) BILL.
The bill was read a third time, and passed.
The other or of the day were then disposed of,
and the house adjourned at one o'clock.

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