The Sun.
London, England, 1851-06-13 00:00:00

irt.
,of
V Ell
DIP

°3 the vote of 8,12,1931, for naval store,, f,,r the
building and repair of ships, &e.,
Mr lIUME proposed to reduce the :mount of the vote
one-third. The nurr.l34r of ships in ordinary already
were
f , more than would be required tmdcr any state of
Itcumstances in Europe which the ingenuity of man
'unld divine, even supposinp; the time of Bonaparte
could come over again. Why as recommended by
the Committee, return to the system of former times,
and limit the number of ships to the wants of the ser-
lee? In the United States as soon as war ended
L'ilktiilding was stopped. The increase of expenditure
1.11 this service had been so great of late years that re-
trenchment was absolutely necessary, and he kn,w no
ranch in which it could be made with so much pro-
Priety as in this.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS supported the amendment.
TRELAWNEY said that an enormous sum of
money had been wasci,cl in Plymouth, because the wrong
site had been selected for the docks there, when a na-
turaldock might have been made with great ease, and at
expense, in Plymouth Sound. He thought a great
cting might be effected by building the smaller ships
contract. A further saving might be effected by hay.
g this sails of their ships tanned, when they wouid last
eousiderably longer than they did under the present
system. He could see no reason why their men-of-war
trttould not have their sails tanned as well as other ships.
e Complained also of superseding their harbour-masters
after only a six years' service. The consequence was that
1 „Pon and inexperienced hands were frequently called
„Pc, o to fill those offices in the place of men who had tic-
Ltured a thorough knowledge of their business by their
'4,years' servi

Admiral BERKELEY said that these attacks upon
the number of their ships had been so frequently
answered
that he could have very little to add to what he
had already said. It was clear that if they were to be
eefortunately involved in war they could not have less
than 25 sail of the lino in the Mediterranean, and 35 sail
!f the line in the Channel. This force it was absolutely
necessary to keep up if they wished to warn the enemy
from their shores. If that be the case the Committee
would agree with him that the present number was not
more than that which was wanted to meet such an
eniergency. The total number of battle-ships in their
.11473, was 70 sail of the lino. Of these 70 there were
j° 'luny as twelve or fourteen of the small seventy-fours
,eft since the last war. These ships could not be any
.
°tiger considered as fit to cope with the ships of other
aations, which were built of a superior class and of
greater tonnage. It was not their fault that this should
Lei the case, as they had contrived to keep them through
a 1
°at-protracted war, while those of other powers were
eestroyed, and new ones built in their stead. They had
twenty sail of the line on the stocks building, bat these
Were not to be launched immediately, except some that
:me building with screw propellers. That being a new
taesention it was quite necessary that one or two should
launched for the sake of trying how the screw would
act in case of a war. So far far from their expending
'0 large a sum of money as was alleged in the bulling of
ships, out of that sum one-fourth only went for build-
10g, while the remainder of the sum was swallowed up
.1.1 repairs. When they talked of the great increase in
their expenditure at the present period compared with
former one, they should recollect that at the former
Period referred to they had no such thing as a steam
h
"517, and that it was mach more expensive to keep those
steamers in repair than the other description of ships.
~t 1 Concurred in the opinion expressed by an Honour-
"Qie Member, that it would be a much more economical
Plan
„ to place their ships upon slips in order to preserve
1124 copper, and so save their wear and tear; but the
expense of getting up those slips would be enormous.
The Hon. Member who spoke last suggested the pro-
Priety of tanning the sails of their ships. That Hon.
entleman, however, had never been up the topsail yard
reefing the sails, as he (the Gallant Admiral) had been.
$e should like to see him gathering up a tanned sail in
gale of wind.--(Laughter.)
MA.CGREGOR slid that the speech made by
the Hon. and Gallant Admiral was as superannuated a
speech as he had ever heard uttered.—(ob, oh, and
laughter.) He (Mr. Macgregor) contended that they
Were now in a position to defy the attacks of the whole
world. What was the condition of the British navy?
There were 12 ships of the line, 11 of 120 guns, one of
!ICI guns, 50 of 104 guns, four of 92, two of 90, 11 of
84, nine of 80, seven of 78, 18 of 72, two of 70, being
70 of the line, and 13 on the stocks and nearly finished,
Which gives a total of 83 sailing ships of the line.
rigates Afl nat-25 of 50, 10 of 44, 22 of 42, four of
40, one of 38, one of 36; total, 63 frigates. Afloat
arid on the Stocks—Two douhlebanked 60 gun frigates,
equal to ships of the line, and six of 50, making alto-
gether 71 frigates, 65 of which would be found far
more than sufficont to destroy the whole Russian fleet.
Besides the foregoing, we have 21 corvettes of 24 to 28
guns, eight of 18 to 22, 18 sloops of war from 14 to 18,
49 brigs of 6 to 16, 11 sailing packets, besides surveying-
!hips, troop-ships, yachts, and tenders. In all
49,407 tons in commission, 25,630 tons in or-
dinary, or in all 329,020 tons, exclusive of
1143 on the stocks and steam-ships. Now he
Would get Sir W. Symonds and others to plant these
They
the best ships of the line belonging to Russia.
titey were fully equal to any ships of the line of any
Other power but France. There were only two Ameri-
Can ships superior to them, Their steam-fleet was nu-
merous, They were building their steamers with such
tepidity as to render many of them obsolete, when corn-
Pared with the other ships that were building with irn-
Provernents made every day in their machinery. They
bad also a number of ships belonging to private com-
panies which were equal to the ships of any country in
Europe. They had 147 steam-ships (including 3 in
Canada), and 32 iron steamers, 11 ranging from 1,547
to 1,980. Of these 4 wero formerly 76-gun ships, and
Lave now engines of 450 horse-power. The largest, the
Terrible,
of 1,980, has only 350-horse power. The
Terrible, however, of 1,850 tons, has engines of 800
horse-power; the Termugant, of 1,547, has 620 horse-
Power; while the Arrogant, 1,872, has only 360 horse-
Power. The Retribution, of 1,641 tons, has 400 horse-
Power. One of the above 11, the Penelope,
Was a 46-gun frigate ; 15 steamers from above
1,200 and 1,500 tons, 27 above 1,000 and under
1,200 tons, 23 above 700 and under 1,000 tons,
9 above 500 and under 700 tons, 27 from 250 and
Yoder 500 tons, 22 from 150 and under 250 tons, 4 from
42 to 149, 3 on the Likes of Canada, 1 of 406 and of 90
horse-power, and 2 of 750 and 200 horse-power; 12
Packets, 237,720, some of which are very fine vessels;
58,643 in commission, to 58,501 in ordinary. Of the
steam-ships, there are built of iron the Sineoom, 1,984,
and the Vulture, 1,764, both 350-horse power; the Gree-
nock, 1,418, and 550-horse power; the Birkenhead,
1,405, and 556-horse power; the Niagara, 1,395, and 35
horse power; the Trident, 850, and 350-horse power;
the Antelope, 650, and 264-horse power; the Jackal and
Lizard. 350, and 150 horse power; the Bloodhound, 373
and 150-horse power; the Grapper, 557 tons, and 220-
horse power; the Sharpshooter, 503, and 202-horse
power; the Harpey, 344, and 200 horse power; the
Myrmidon, about 350, and 180-ho:se power; the Sphinx
and Fairy, about 300, and about 110-horse power; and
4 small vessels of 20 to 90-horse power. Six of the
packets are iron vessels. Screw-steamers on the stocksviz ,
1 80-gun screw at Devonport, 1 80-gun screw at Wool-
wich, and 1 80-gun at Pembroke. In all 150 steam chips.
Oi flag officers in commission, there were 2 admirals,
whose pay was 5,3401.; 3 vice-admirals, 7,6651.; 4 rear-
admirals, 8,7601.; 1 rear-admiral, 1,825/.; 5 commodores,
3,2851.; 11 flag-lieutenants, 2,2071. 10s.; in dockyards,
2 rear-admirals, 2,1901.; 2 commodores, 1,277/. 10s.; 3
flag-lieutenants, 565/. 155.; 58 captains, 30,124/. 13s. 4d.•
82 commanders, 24,692 L 55.; 376 lieutenants, 13.2491.
los, Total, 540, and 101,4821. 3s. 4d. Theme were on
the active list 140 admirals, whose pay was 7,6041. 7s.
6d.; 399 captains, 82,3711. 7s. 6d.; 669 commanders,
107,630/. 2s. 61; 1,390 lieutenants, 13,462 t 155.; 231
masters, 23;889/. 55.; 5 mates, 2231. 2s. 6d.; 47 chap-
lains, 5,5291. 155.; 4 inspectors of hospitals, 1,332/. 55.;
237 surgeons, 31,262/. 55.; 43 assistant surgeons, 2,6551.
78. 6d.; 317 pay masters and pursers, 34,6021.; 6 secre-
taries, 1,058/. 10s.; 15 naval instructors, 855/. 2s. 6d.
Total, 3,504, and 506,711/. 53. Retired List-50 cap-
tains, 9,581/. 4e; 314 commanders, 42,763/. 55.; 47 com-
manders (late masters), 7,7471. 2s. 6d.; 7 lieutenants in
holy orders, 6661. 2s. 6d.; 2 masters in holy orders,
237/, 55.; 4 inspectors of hospitals, 935/. 6s. 31.; 7 de-
puty inspectors of hospitals, 1,843/. 55.; 2 physicians,
547/. 10s.; 48 surgeons, 5,6751. 155.; 116 surgeons unfit
for further service, 12,464/. 15a.; 33 assistant surgeons,
1,825/.; 4 dispensers, 3651.; 29 paymasters and pur-
sers, 4,498/. 12s. 6d. Total, 653, 89,183/. 3?._9d. Marine
officers-7 major-generals, 4,7341. 7s, 6i.; 4 colonels,
2,4721. 17s. 6d.; 6 lieutenant-colonels, 1,8781. 4s. 6d.; 2
majors, 4651. 7s. 6d.; 12 captains (brevet-majors),
2,7431. lls. Bd.; 108 captains, 17,2881. 16s. Bd.; 135 first
lieutenants, 11,5091. 13s. 4d.; 102 second lieutenants,
5,627/. 2s. 6d. Total, 1,029, 133,903/. sa. Retirement
under Admiralty circular of August, 1846-44 rear-ad-
mirdls, 20,0731.; 95 captains (36 with rank of admiral
with increase o pay), 3,4651.; 45 captains, 1,478/. Bs. 101
Total, 184, 69,532/. 10s. Abstract—Active list, 8,504,
at a cost of 506 711/ 55.; retired list, 1,024,135,903 e ea;
ditto under circular,lB4, 69,532/. 103. 9d. Total cost,
7121471. Now, let them compare their strength
with that of other countries:—With respect to the Rae-
sian navy, the present Emperor seems endeavouring to
realize the favourite object of Peter I. But however
powerful the men may be he has, sooner or later, to ac-
knowledge that nature is more powerful still. As long
as Russia Itseps within her natural limits the Russian
navy will continue the hobby of the Emperor; and in
his (Mr. Macgregor's) mind the view of the naval power
of Russia, gathered together at the cut de sac of the Gulf
for the amusement of the Czar—the gate of his capital
—has caused only a painful impression. The vessels,
which will inevitably be lost in a few winters, without
having rendered any service, suggested to his mind
images—not of the power of a great country, but of the
useless toils of the poor unCortunate people condemned.
The ice is a more terrible enemy to this navy than
foreign power; for a time the pupil returns to his prison,
the plaything to its owner, and the first begins to wage
its more serious war upon the Imperial finances. Lord
Durham once remarked that the Russian ships of war
were but the playthings cf the Russian Sovereign.
During three months' naval exercise the young pupil,
remain performing evolutions in , the neighbourhood of
Cronsta4t, the mere advanced extend their voyage of
sli.seovery to Rigs, and some few ships go so far as Co-
penhagen, and a solitary ship now arid then strays into
the Atlantic. To admire Russia in approachin,, it by
water it is necessary to forget the approach to Zdgiancl
by the Thames—the first the image of death, the last of
life. The thoughts of a navy being destined to perish
without ever having been in action appeared to him
like a dream. If the sight of such an armament im•
pressed him with any sentiment it was not the fear ef
war, but the curse of tyranny. Tne maxim of
Peter the Great was, " The sea at any cost," and he
founded the maritime capital of the Selavonians
in a marsh, among the Fins and in the
vicinity of the Swedes. Bat the outlet to
the sea is closed during eight months in the year. The
navy of Sweden was as follows:-10 ships, 8 frigates, 8
brigs and corvettes, 6 schooners, 8 mortar boats, 22