The Sun.
London, England, 1851-08-08 00:00:00

ATTENDANCE OF ME NIBERS IN THE HOUSE

OF PEERS.

On the motion of Mr. LABOUCHERE, the report of
the Committee on this subject, which was presented yes-
terday was read by the clerk at the table.
O❑ the motion that the report be agreed to,

Mr. V. SMITH objected io the time specified in the
report, and within which Members were to announce
their intention to attend the Speaker on the
occasion of the prorogation to-morrow. The report
required that Members should give in their names to
night, but it would answer all the ends that the report
sought to attain if Members delivered in their names to-
morrow. He should decidedly object to that
part of the report which proposed to give
Cabinet Ministers precedence over all other
Members on the occasion of the opening or
chising Parliament, and he should divide the House on
that part of it, because the proposal was wholly in oppo-
sition to the principles of the constitution, which gave
Members the right of attending the Speaker on an equal
footing, as the representatives of the people.
' Sir D. NORREYS concurred with the Right Hon.
Gentleman in the objection he had taken to the second
resolution contained in the report. Ho should, therefore,
move that the first clause of the report be omitted.
Sir R. H. INGLIS thought it any precedence were to
be given it should be to the members of the Privy
Council, which would include not only the present
Cabinet, but all former Ministers and the most distin-
guished persons in that House.

Mr. C. ANSTEY thought the fault rested with the
other House, in not providing sufficient accommodation
for this House when it was called to the presence of her
Majesty. He also objected to recognise by a resolu-
tion of the House the existence of the Cabinet Council,
a distinction which was unknown to the forms of the
House, and constitution of the country.
Mr. GREENE defended the report.
Sir B. HALL thought that the best mode of proceed-
ing would be to place the names of all Hon. Members
indiscriminately in a glass, and for each Hon. Member
to follow Mr. Speaker in the order in which his name be
drawn.

Mr. HOBHOUSE thought that if they were to have
any precedence at all, they ought to go by the tables of
precedence which were used in all other meetings of gen-
tlemen. He thought, too, that the House of Lords was
deficient in courtesy towards this House in not providing
sufficient accommodation for it.

Mr. MACGREGOR objected to giving precedence to
any persons. He thought All Members were equal among
themselves.

After a few words from Sir DE LACY EVANS and
Mr. PALM,

Sir B. HALL said, that to meet the objection of Sir
D. Norreys, he would amend his proposition, so that it
should read thus:—" That every Member desirous of
attending Mr. Speaker do, on entering the House, put
his name in a glass, and that in half an hour after the
meeting of the House the names shall be drawn by the
clerk at the table, and that in such order as they are
drawn Members shall proceed to the House of Lords."
The SPEAKER was about to put the question, when
the Sergeant-at-Arms announced the arrival of the
Black Rod, an announcement which was received with
a cheer and loud laughter.
The Deputy Usher of the Black Rod then appeared
at the table, and summoned the House to the bar of the
House of Lords to hear the royal assent given by Com-
mission to a number of Bills. The Speaker proceeded
to the House of Lords accordingly, followed immediately
by Mr. T. Hobbouse and Mr. Macgregor, amidst the
cheers and laughter of the House.
The SPEAKER, on his return, announced to the
House that he had heard the royal assent given by
Commission to several Bills, for which see Lords' report.
Sir B. HALL then rose and made his amendment, in
the form he proposed to have adopted. It was to the
effect that ever Member desirous of attending Mr.
Speaker should put his name in a glass, that half an
hour after the meeting of the House the Members'
names should be drawn from the glass, and that in such
order as they were drawn they should proceed to the
House of Lords.

Lord J. RUSSELL said, that, so far as he was con-
cerned, he had no particular desire on the subject. He
had moved the appointment of the Committee on the
(location, because he had understood that many Mem-
bers wished there should be more order observed
than hitherto—(dear, hear)—had been the case. He
was responsible for having moved the Committee, and
when the Committee had met he had certainly proposed
that there should be certain precedence observed,
but not that which was contained i❑ the resolution.
The precedence which he had propoed was, that
four Members, such as the mover and seconder of
the Address, at the commencement of the session,
or others selected on some such account, should
attend the Speaker before the other Members. How-
ever, that was unanimously negatived by the Com-
mittee, and the proposal now before the House of
giving precedence to the Cabinet Ministers was adopted
instead. It was to him a matter of perfect indifference.
If there were any Members who had more curiosity to
gratify on the occasion they might go. All he wished
tor was that the House should agree, if possible, with-
out a division—(Hear)—to some arrangement. He did
not think it was at all desirable that they should divide,
and if the House saw no objection, he thought it better
they should adopt the amendment of the Honourable
Gentleman (Sir B. Hall). Of course he could not be
certcsia that the resolution would work well, but if there
should be any inconvenience in that mode of proceeding
the House could alter it on a future occasion.

The amendment was then agreed to.
The next three resolutions, giving precedence to the
Cabinet Ministers after the Speaker, and arranging the
order of the Members, were then struck out.
The next resolution was as follows:—" That after the
House has been summoned to attend her Majesty, no
Member of this House do remain in, or cross, or pass
through any of the lobbies or passages leading from the
door of this House to the door of the House of Lords,
and the Sergeant•at-Arms attending this House do keep
the said passages clear of Members."

Mr. ANSTEY objected to the resolution being re-
tained, and considered that it should be struck out with
the others. He would insist on dividing the House if
that resolution were retained. With respect to tho dif-
ficulties in the way of the proposed arrangement, there
was no place reserved for them below the bar of the
House; the place there was usually filled on those occa-
sions with law clerks, parliamentary agents, and persons
who had been unsuccessful candidates for a seat in that
House. Ho wanted to know whether there was any ar-
rangement made by which sufficient space would be se-
cured to the Members of that House?

Lord J. RUSSELL saidThCtwhlle they were consi-
dering this matter a communication had been made to
the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Lords, and they
had received a positive assurance that all the space be-
low the bar intended for the House of Commons would
be kept clear for them to-morrow, and that there was
space for 300 persons in that place—(Oh, oh)—au esti-
mation which he thought was exaggerated. There were,
however, the other day in that space 146 peers who di-
vided below the bar. Taking, then, but the half of the
300 stated, there would be, at all events, space for 150
Members of the House of Commons below the bar of
the House of Lords. Hitherto he admitted it was un-
satisfactory to find so great a part of the space occupied
by others, but he would not approve of the present ar-
rangement unless there was an undertaking that persons
who had no right to be there should be excluded. The
Hon. Gentleman objected to the resolution. He (Lord
J. Russell) had always thought the great inconvenience
arose from the persons following the Speaker being
pushed back by others who crossed into the rank, and
if that practice were allowed to continue it would be un-
fair to those gentlemen who were intercepted.
After a few words from Mr. D. Noniszvs and Colonel
SIBTHORP,

Viscount PALMERSTON said there was nothing new
in the proposed arrangement, which was exactly the
same as that resolved on upon the occasion of her Ma-
jesty's coronation. The Committee were establishing no
new precedent by it.
Mr. B. COCHRANE asked how long an Hon. Mem-
ber who might be taken into custody would be detained?
He might, perhaps, be kept in custody until the next
session.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that Hon. Gentlemen would
of course be expected to obey the orders of the House.
If an Hon. Gentleman passed in, and was taken into cus-
tody by the Sergeant-at-Arms, he presumed that, on ex-
plaining, he would be at once released.
After a few words from Mr. Belem and Mr. P. WIL-
LIAMS, strangers wore ordered to withdraw, but ultie
matthedlyranwon.division took place, and the resolution was
withdrawn.
SARDINIASARDINIA AND NAPLES.
Sir DE LACY EVANS rose to put two questions to
the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign-office and ho
hoped for the sake of humanity that the Noble Lord
wuuld be able to answer them sati,fabtorily, It was
well known, upon the most unexceptionable authority,
that in consequenec of the refuge which Piedmont had
given to the thousands of Italian refugees driven out
from other parts of the peninsula for political causes, the
Austrian Government had seen fit to interfere, and that
the constitution of Piedmont was threatened with
danger. The abject of his question, therefore, was to
express a hope that the Governments of England and
France united would give all possible countenance and
support to the Sardinian Government in its efforts to
uphold that constitution.—(Hear.) his next question
was on a still more painful subject. It was known to the
House and to the country, on the authority of the Right
Hon. Member for the University of Oxford, that the,
present conduct of the Government of Naples towards
those prisoners accused of political offences whom it held
in its power, was at once an outrage against religion,
an outrage against humanity, an outrage against de-
cency, and an outrage against civilisation.—(llear.)
Mr. B. COCHRANE—Order, order.
Sir D 4 LACY LVANS—That which he had stated