The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-20 00:00:00

EVENING-,

lopeasent of the present commercial spteno, they were
to have an indefieite reduction of indirect taxation and
direct taxation, for the purpose of increasing theimports-
tien of foreign corn.—(Hear.) By such a course they
were sacrificing a large amount of revenue annually,
which would ene'ele them to relieve the preavere of the
income-tax, and while they wore lesion; revenue, they
Were not gaining in the price of the article which would
compensate for the loss of revenue. As to the reduction
in the duty on coff,x, he thought it was inflicting injury
on the colonial grower, while the consumer did not re-
ceive compensating advantage. He knew it could be
said that the reduction in the consumption of
coffee was to be. ascribed to the adulteration of that
article. That would be raising another question
which made the conduct of the Government incompre-
hensible, by refusing to bring in a measure to prevent
the adulteration, and to protect the consumer. He could
not understand the conduct of Government in not re-
medying that evil. He did not know that the country
would derive the advantage anticipated from the reduc-
tion of the duties on coffee and timber. He thought
the country would lose by the latter reduction.—(Hear
hear.) There .had been no fall in prices commensurate
with the reduction of the duty, and the consequence was
that the foreign producer was the gainer.—(Hear, hear.)
As regarded the measure now before them, the question
was between the adoption of the Bill an it stood, or its
rekntion altogether. Their Lordships had not the power
to make any alteration. The Noble Marquis had taken
great credit for one reduction which had been effected
in direct taxation, and !au (Lord Stanley) was not going
to say that the abolition of the tax in question was not
an advantage. But in doing away with the window-tax
they bad imposed •on the same class of that community
a house-tax. The window-tax altogether was levied
upon 500,000 houses, but the house-tax would fall upon
400,000. The tax was so charged as to exempt a certain
portion of that class who claimed the exercise of the
elective franchise.—(Hear.) Now he did not know why
there should be that sacrifice of revenue.—(Hear, hear.)
It might be Very convenient to increase the influence of
certain metropolitan Membora ; but he could not see
why the owner of a 10/. house should be exempted from
ail taxation.— (iiotti-, hear.) He thought they might
have obtained all the sanitary advantages by doing
away with the window-tax, and laying a house-tax to
the same extent; or they might have retained the win-
dow-tax, and enabled the parties to compound for it, and
permitted them to open as many windows afterwards as
they might think proper. He regretted her Majesty's
Government had proceeded on so objectionable a prin-
ciple, that while the income-tax was admitted to be a
temporary measure, taxes were being taken off, and they
were continuing to bring down the revenue so nearly to
balance the expenditure, that it was impossible they
could any year have a sufficient surplus to enable them
to do away with the income-tax.—(:fear, hear.) How-
ever the Government might make professions on the sub-
ject, the country would come to the conclusion that
whatever' they might say in theory, in practice it was
their intention to continue the income-tax. He (Lord
Stanley) was, however, of opinion that it was their duty
to take measures for doing away with the income-tax as
soon as possible.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
concluded by.sayiegi that it was not his intention to offer
any opposition to the second reading of the Bill.
The Earl of MALIIESSURY, wished to ask, upon
what assessment the house tax was intended to be taken?

If upon the poor.rate assessment, that varied in different
parts of the country; and if upon the income-tax assess-
ment, which was supposed to be more fair and more ge-
nerally equal, new comnsissiouers would have to be ap-
pointed when the income-tax should cease—and we were
surely not to assume it to be perpetual.
Tho Marquis of LANSDOWNE observed, that the
House-tax lull had not yet passed, and the subject was
under consideration in the other House. The Noble
Marquis added a few words which were inaudible in the
gallery,
11 but we believe they referred to there being
means of having the poor-law valuations equalized.
The Earl of MALMESBURY repeated, that these
local aese.ssments varied 20 or 30, if not 50 per cent.,
from the real value in-some cases; and nothing could be
more unfaii than to base the house-tax upon them.
L ;rd BEAUMONT apprehended that there were
always two columns, one stating the rack-rent, the other
the rateable value. The Noble Lord seemed to ima-
gine that the second column would be taken ; that
would be monstrous, for one part of the country would
much more than anoter. But, if the
plied with, there wash a fair and corn-
ltpahlewetnehbaaecacophuaenyetinnogefotmhe gross value; and upon that the house-
tax might be based.
The Earl of MALMESBURY did not think the law
was observed in that point ; he thought the Noble Lord
(Beaumont) was mistaken as to the practice.
Lord BERNERS considered it a duty to endeavour
to make the law as little objectionable as possible, and
would, therefore, inquire whether the Government con-
templated any cheek,
.upon frivolous and vexatious sur-
charges ? The way in which the tax was assessed in
some pacts, in Leicestershire foeone, excited general in-
dignation. There might be one, check by allowing the
appellant his expenses. The Noble Lord also suggested
an alteration in regard to the number of commissioners
who had to decide on such cases.
Lord MONTEAGLE agreed that it was desirable to
cliMinish any oppressive incidents of the tax, but must
say that, considering the circumstances of its introduc-
tion, there being but one gentleman remaining in office
who had been acquainted with the previous tax, nothing
could be more praiseworthy than the moderation and
good sense with which this law had been generally ad-
ministered.—(Hear.) It would hardly be politic to
diminish the powers for enforcing a tax so easily evaded.
—(Hear.) But ho should be sorry to be considered as
approving of such a tax as this, except upon the ground
of necessity. In great exigencies it was to bo regarded
as our groat resource; and when the safety and inde-
pendence of the country were concerned, objections
vanished. In fact, it was almost analogous to the press-
gang. But it ought to be reserved for a great occasion,
and especially we ought not to get blindfold into a sys-
tem of perpetuation under cover of a periodical renewal,
without a revision to see how it could be made just and
equitable.—(Hear.) It was even more dangerous when
renewed for only a short period, because at every re-
newal the Government mast make sacrifices of other
taxes, not because they disapproved them, but
because they were unpopular.—(Hear, hear.) Like
other leases, there was a fine to pay on renewal.—
(Hear.) It was proposed for three years, and we had
had it for nine; it was to-produce less than 4,000,0001.
a year, and it had produced above 5,000,0001.; the Go-
vernment asked for 11,000,0001, and had got 49,000,000/.
--(Hear, hear)—and yet it was to be renewed again.—
(Hear.) And why? Because we had been repealing
various indirect taxes. No doubt 1842 presented a case
of emergency; but, saying nothing of 1842 or 1845, it
was impossible to deny that if we went on after the
fashion of 1848 no one could see any end to the conti-
nuance of the income-tax.—(Hear, hear.) It was pro-
nosed now to commute the window-tax for a house-tax.
The repeal of the former house-tax was forced upon a
most reluctant Government; and when the new house-
tax got into play, we should have the same agency
brought into action, and probably with the same success,
as in the case of the former house-tax. The small as-
sessment of great houses would he produced as a griev-
ance. Great mansions paid heavily to the window-tax,
but, taking ~the only just test, the test of value, and not
of cost, the King's Arms or the White Hart in the
county town would seem to pay in a greater proportion
than the country gentleman's house.—(Hear, hear.)
It was suite right to give relief from the window-tax
with a view to purposes of health; but in this commu-
tation the new tax would be placed in a position of
greater danger than the old, and we should have a larger
amount of the public revenue in a position of danger.
He was satisfied that if they wished to maintain the
public credit, and the means of supporting the public
establishments, they could not let the property-tax re-
main on its present footing, at the risk of an adverse
vote of the other House, or of an adverse pressure out of
doors. Last year .the Government, with the prospect of
the discontinuance of the property-tax before them, gave
up 1,100,000/. of public revenue, including some 500,0004
or 600,0001. of stamp duties, for which he had never
heard any one out of doors express the least thankfulness.
He considered that it would bo most dangerous to place
the credit of the country to a great or an increasing ex-
tent upon the foundation of direct taxation. In 1842
his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies (Earl
Grey) expressed his sense of this danger, and called
upon
Parliament to consider what would be their situa-
tion if the oppressive nature of the income-tax should
make the country refuse to submit to its continuance,
and how much embarrassment and how much danger to
the national credit such a state of things would occasion.
He thought when they found the proposition by Govern-
ment of an income-tax.for three years met by a resolu-
tion of the other House that it should be continued for
roachi that n
only one, that the results contemplated b
any d
his Noext
friend
einiagehtuj determine
iVy app g,
year that this tax should be
ienPda might
tenht
to
call
altogetherth
Theyhad heard it said, and it was not denied on either
side of the House, that the agricultural interest was at
present suffering the greatest depression, while they had
eirdisLcoonrdtignhuiel;; He wished before he sat down
attention to a, singular fact.
been told to-night that the interests of productive in-
dustry, as represented by trade and manufactures, were,
on the contrary, flourishing. Now it was in some mea-
sure a demonstration of the evils incident to the pro-
perty-tax, that that tax upon agricultural
property, even in a time of distress, had gone on auge
menting, while the amount of the same tax derived from
other descriptions of property, trades, professions, and
commercial profits, had diminished, although they were
told those interests were most prosperous.—(Hear,
hear.) He would take the comparison of two years. In
1343 the amount of property assessed to the income-tax
under schedule A, which, he admitted, comprehended
mills, buildings, and other things besides land, was
85,000,0004, and in 1850 it had risen to 94,000,0004
He found that the property assessed under Schedule D,
which included all the interests admitted to be the most
prospeteui, had fallen off from 63,000,0001. in 1843, to
54,000,000/. in .1850.—("Hear, hear," from Lord Stan-
ley:) This hid taken place concurrently with an in-
crease in the official value of exports from 131,000,0001.
in 1843, to 190,000,0001. in 1849, and an increase in the
value of imports from 70,000,0001. in 1843 to 105,000,000/.
in 1849. He considered that the general financial con-
dition of the country was satisfactory, but he thought
they ought carefully to consider whether a tax of the
nature of the property-tax should be continued upon
light grounds, and especially upon a principle which
extended to its perpetuation, or whether they should
not reserve such resources for great and important exi-
gencies.
Earl GREY said he would first answer the question
of the Noble Lord opposite with regard to the mode of
assessing the income-tax. The Noble Lord had stated
that he thought the same remedy ought to be given in
cases of surcharge under the income and property-tax as
in cases of surcharge in the land • and assessed taxes,
and that the general body of Commissioners should have
esevoice in the matter. In the case of the income-tax
the difficulty had arisen from the Secrecy which is iusd

been considered, and justly considered, advisable to
p7eserve with regard to the exact profits and business
matters of a private and confidential nature. Accord-
irgly the Act had providrd that seven Commissioners
should be selected from the GlMmissioners of Land and
Aesested Taxes, to whom an appeal should be made in
the first instance, with an appeal, if desired, to a special
cDmesissioner. He was afraid that. the appeal could not
be carried. further consistently with an income-tax,
and with that secrecy. which was due to the private
affairs of individuals,—(Hear, hear.) With regatd to
the observation of the Noble Lord who had last
spoken, he was not about to express any opinion
.very different from that which he had formerly ex-
pressed as to the objectionable character of the income-
tax as a fixed tax. He had expressed that opinion very
etrongly in 1342, and he still entertained that opinion;
but at the same time he was bound to say that experience
had convinced him that the immense advantage procured
to the country by means of the income-tax was worth
the sacrifice which had been made for that purpo3e.—
_ _

(bear.) The Noble Lord had remarked that the income-
tax had been calculated only at 3,500,0001., and for three
years; while it had produced upwards of 5,000,0001.,
and had been continued for nine years. It was the pro-
ductiveness of the tax beyond what was anticipated that
formed one of the reasons why he should be reconciled
to its being imposed. In 1842 his opinion was, that for
so small an amount as 3,000,0001., it was hardly worth
while to resort to so objectionable a tax as an income-
tax; but when, in consequence of its greater productive-
ness, the Government were enabled to make reforms in
our financial system, that result was one well calculated
to alter the opinions he at the time entertained. It was
with extreme astonishment that ho had heard the Noble
Lord opposite assert that the imposition of the income-
tax had enabled the Government only to get rid of taxa-
tion the relief from which had been felt by no one—
Lord STANLEY—I spoke with reference to the pro-
posed redaction in the timber and coffee duties.
Earl GREY—The statement of his Noble Friend near
him (the Marquis of Lansdewne) appeared to him con-
clusive as to the advantages which the country had de-
rived from our late commercial policy. Hi 3 Noble
Friend had told them that nutting the income-tax out of
the question, the amount of taxes remitted since 1842
had been not less than 10,000,000/., and that notwith-
standing such a remission the loss of income did not ex-
ceed 700,0001.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed he might say that
by the remission of taxes which never went into the
Exchequer, hut which fettered trade, the total amount
of relief given was not over-estimated at 20,000,0001.—
(Hear, hear.) He should not follow the Noble Lord
through all the taxes to which ho alluded, and which he
thought ought not to have been repealed. He was,
however, surprised that his Noble Friend should have
adverted to the reduction of the stamp duties as an
alteration not worth the sacrifice of income it had en-
tailed. It was the fate of Chancellors of the Exche-
quer to bo very little thanked for their services, but his
Right Hon. Friend had considered what was best for
the public, and had deemed the alteration worth the sa-
crifice. It had been admitted that the schedule of
stamp duties was one full of injustice and int Tiality—
that it pressed on smaller transactions in a manner that
rendered these transactions frequently impossible, and
that it placed obstructions in the way of transfers of
property, and other commercial end business transac-
tions. By a small sacrifice of revenue the stamp duties
had been placed on a fair footing, and the reports re-
ceived from solicitors throughout the country proved that
the effect of the alteration had been relief to an almost
incalculable extent on transactions among persons in the
humbler ranks of life. The full benefit of such reduc-
tions might not be reaped at first, but their Lordships
might depend upon it that every obstruction taken out of
the free career of industry and enterprise was at no dis-
tant period productive of the moat beneficial effects.
Amongst all reductions which had been made he
believed few were likely to be more beneficial
than the alteration of the stamp duties. He thought
the Noble Lord opposite must in what he had stated
on this subject have entirely misunderstood what
had fellen from his Noble Friend near him. The Noble
Lord had represented the proposal of Government as
implying a determination gradually to get rid of duties
on customs, and to trust for revenue entirely to direct
taxation. Where the Noble Lord found grounds for
such an interpretation of his Noble Friend's speech he
was at a less to know, for his Noble Friend had specially
guarded himself against saying anything that could jus-
tify such an implication. Perhaps their Lordships
would allow him to state what he conceived to be the
real principle of this Bill. He considered the object of
the Bill, not to be to get rid of custom duties as distin-
guished from other indirect taxes, but to get rid of those
taxes, whether of custom or of excise, which were ob-
structions to the industry of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
He might remind the Noble Lord that a very large por-
tion of the revenue which had been sacrificed in conse-
quence of the income-tax bad been derived, not from
custom, but from excise duties ; and that the reduction
of the duties on bricks and on glass bad been no incon-
siderable items of relief. Never had two articles of tax-
ation been so judicioutly relieved. Their Lordships were
all aware of the brilliant display is connexion with the
manufacture of glass that the metropolis exhibited at this
moment. The improvement in the manufacture of glass
had been going on, for the last few years, from day to
day; and dated from the time when the exciseman's in-
terference was put an end to in the works. Although
the reduction of the brick duty had only been made last
year, still it had been most beneficial. A landowner
himself, and, like others, feeling the pressure of the
times, ho was yet sensible of the advantage of the reduc-
tion of the brick duty with reference to buildings and
useful works. With respect to the proposed reduction of
the duties on coffee and timber the Noble Lord opposite
seemed to think that the consumer would not be be-
nefited. Only on Saturday last he bad read in a news-
paper the circular of one of the largest commercial
houses in this country as to the effect of the alteration
of the timber duty. Though the Bill had not yet passed,
the reduction had been in operation for some weeks,
and the statement of the firm to which he alluded was,
that as regarded colonial timber there had been no re-
duction in price. He was fully prepared for that, because
for some years the import of colonial timber bad been con-
fined to timber of a peculiar quality which the Baltic timber
seldom came into competition with. But, as regarded
Baltic timber, the circular stated that the consumer in
many cases benefited to the extent of two-thirds of the
reduction of duty, in other cases to the extent of a half,
and in some cases to the whole extent of the reduction.
He believed that that was even more than the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had calculated upon as the im-
mediate effect of his proposal. The extraordinary ac-
tivity in all those trades in which timber was much used
—such as ship-building—proved the advantage which
would be gained to the consumer by the alteration. With
regard to coffee, the Noble Lord thought that the reduc-
tion of the duty would bo injurious to the colonies. He
had had communications with persons growers of coffee
in the colonies, and though it was not usual for persons
engaged in a particular occupation to recognise the re-
duction of any protection enjoyed by them, yet none of
the persons had said that any disadvantage would
result to them from the proposal in question. Ceylon
alone produced a larger amount of coffee than this
country consumed, but the protection it enjoyed was
utterly valueless, for the surplus produce regulated the
price. On the other hand, the reduction of both duties
would be of the first value to the Ceylon planter, be-
cause it would extend consumption. The Noble Lord
had complained that the Government had done nothing
to check the adulteration of coffee, but had rather fa-
voured it than otherwise. Not only the present Go-
vernment, but also that of which the Noble Lord had
been a member, had found it impossible by restrictions
or by excise interference to prevent adulteration. The
other day, when visiting the Geological Museum, he saw
some specimens of very pure chalk, and was informed
that it was used for adulterating the best Durham mus-
tard. Ile believed the only remedy was for the con-
sumer to deal only with the respectable trades-
man, who sold a genuine article; but as regarded coffee
the present measure, as far as it went, would check
adulteration; for any reduction of the price of the real
article must hold out less inducement to substitute for it
an adulterated compound. He did not think it would
be advisable to establish an exciseman in every grocer's
shop in the kingdom to prevent the adulteration of
coffee. He should add, with regard to the continuance
of such a tax as the income-tax for a single year, that
he concurred in the observations of the Noble Lord
who spoke last. It was a dangerous measure, but it
was one for which the Government were not responsible.
After a few words in explanation from Lord BER-
NERS,
Their Lordships adjourned.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS

,From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.

MONDAY, MAY 19.

ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL.

(IN THE COMMITTEE.)
Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Pre-
amble be postponed :" Whereupon Motion made, and Ques-
tionl put, " That the Chairman do report progress, and ask
,eave to sit again." The Committee divided :
MINORITY—AYES, 46.
Howard, P. H. O'Flaherty, Antkony
Hutchins, E. J. Power, Dr.
Keating, Robert Power, Nicholas
Lawless, Cecil Roche, E. B.
M'Cullagh, W. Sadleir, John
Magan, W. H. Salwey, Colonel
Maher, N.. Scully, Francis
Meagher, Thomas Somers, J. P.
Mahon, O'Gorman Sullivan, Michael
Moore, George H. Talbot,
Morgan, 11. K. Vane, Lord;II.
Murphy, F. S. Wall, C. B.
Nugent, Sir Percy
O'Brien, J.
O'Brien, Sir T.
O'Connell, John
O'Connor, Feargus

Armstrong, Sir A.
Arundel, Earl of
Barron, Sir 11.
Blake, M. J.
Burke, Sir Thomas
Corbally, M. E.
Crawford, W. S.
Devereus, J. T.
Buncombe, T.
Fagan, James

FoX, Richard M.
Fox, W. J. _
Grace, 0. D.
Grattan, Henry
Greene, John

TELLIZO.
Keogh, William
Reynolclo, John

Higgins, G. G.
Horsinan, Edward

MAJORITY-NOES, 26`2•

Question again proposed, " That the Preamble be post•
poned :"=Whereupon Motion made, and Question put, " That
the Chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again."
The Committee divided :
MINORITY—AYES, 30.
Grattan, Henry O'Brien, Sir T.
Greene, John O'Flaherty, Anthony
Higgins, George Power, Dr. -
Keogh, William power, Nicholas
Lawless, Cecil
Sadleir, John
Nagan, W. H. Scully, Francis
Maher, N. Sallivan Michael
Meagher, Thomas Talbot, J. H.
Moore, G. H.
TELLERS.
Morgan, H. K. G. _
R
O'Brien, Johla eynolds, John
Keogh, William

Barron, Sir 11.
Blake, M. J.
Blewitt, Reginald
Corbally, M. E.
Crawford, IV. S.
Devereux, John I'.
Fagan, James
Fox, IV. J.
Fox, Richard M.
Gibson, T. M.
Grace, O.D.