The Sun.
London, England, 1851-03-19 00:00:00

RAJA OF SATTARA.

Mr. C. ANSTEY was not going to bring old topics before
the House, but a new topic, which had arisen within the last
six months. A petition had been presented by an Hon.
Member (Mr. Hume) in relation to an infant, the lawful
heir of the Raja of Sattara; which petition, though printed
and sent to Mr. Greville, had not been duly brought before
the Privy Council by Mr. Greville, the Clerk of the Council.
The petition was to obtain the settlement of claims not of a
political character, but to obtain restitution of private pro•
party bel nging to the late Raja of Sattara, taken posses-
sion of by the British Government, on the mistaken assump-
tion that the Raja died without heirs. The infant, the sub-
ject of the petition, who had been adopted and recogn'sed as
the heir of the Raja, sent a petition to the Privy Council,
which petition was not presented by Mr. Greville, who in a
note informed the petitioner " that the matter of the peti-
tion being of a political nature, did not come within the
jurisdiction of her Majesty's Privy Council." This proceed-
ing of Mr. Greville was in the nature of a denial of justice,
and the conduct of Mr. Greville called foc the consideration
of the House; and with the view of bringing the matter un-
der the notice of Parliament he should move a resolution to
the effect "that the matters of complaint set forth in the pe-
tition of the infant Raja deserved the serious consideration
of that House." He contended that the petition eontaiued
nothing at all relating to political questions, but referred
solely to matters of private and pecuniary interest. But,
assuming that the petition did relate to political matters, it
would be found, on reference to the Act of Parliament, that
it was competent to her Majesty's Privy. Council to enter-
tain petitions which had relation to political matters. As
he could not understand the course taken by the Clerk of
the Privy Council, or believe that Lord Lansdowne was
aware of the letter written by Mr. Greville, he would move
to call attention to the alleged obstruction offered to the
claims of the infant Raja of Sattara in the denial of a hear-
ing before the Court of Privy Council, complained of in the
petition to this House of the next friend of the said infant,
presented on the 14th inst. ; and to move a resolution on the
subject.

The motion not having been seconded fell to the ground.
ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL.

The order of the day for the adjourned debate having been

read,

Mr. BLEWITT wished to make one or two observations
en this most impolitic measure. Ile regretted that on this
question the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had
avowed feelings and opinions utterly inconsistent with the
liberal tenor of his previous career. It was with great
sorrow that ha had witnessed the Noble Lord coming forward
on this question, and, in the• sober garb of woe, proceed to
rake up all the crimes imputed to Papacy in the early
times of our history. Hesfor one would not, be a party to
brand as mummeries 'any religious ceremonies practised
r _. Y.
his fellow-countrymen. The bombastic tone of
illm: w Ise
After
man's manifesto had not in the least disturbed. b
ted by any
reading it he slept as soundly as before,
It was intended
torture. He could not believe that any insult
n by the
apprehensions of either purgatorial penance or inquisitorial
the
late be forgotten that
late act of the Pope. It ought not . to.
be
incomnlete unless
to the Queen, or any injury t4the Constitutio ,
Romish Church was an episcopal chtuorcou
r own Church, he
it had a hierarchy. With respect
reading the other day
found in a work which he had c
colony ; that donsequen
by the chaplain of the garrison
Jurisdiction did not exist in thas
d were at present unconse-
the
churches and- churchyatr
at
oftbSienrra Leone, that episcopal
somb episcopal regulation
and to
wants of the colo-
cwraasted.
for
reg to a few colonists, was-it
absolutely The
Mats. If that were so
aunteheoerassarytat.ec_pdr
lb
rwl A portion of our community
not equally equally necessary; ii:flion
souls? The duty of the Pope
bering nearly eleven on
be Hon. Member for the Univer-
in such a case was
workcleitsr. on Church and State; affirmed
sity of Oxford, in .I)
nscientiously believing his religion to
that a Mahomedan, 0
c ' tnrally desire its extension, and would
be from God, would nit
u roper and legitimate means for that
be justified in using y
all
taitholic to be denied the same right ?
end. Was the since
... .
caucs' parson to place himself in the po-
He would ask anY
nd then say whether circumstances
did
sition of the PcPe, a he had
.n the steptaken. Let such a person
not justify elb J. to be from
gionGod—let him be told that
believe his r
nverted? and that many _
more were on the
many had been CO
let him
of conversion— . be informed of the many courte-
point Roman Catholic bishops in Ireland—let him read
in
paid to
" the many speeches •
in ~ Mansard" the head
in favor of Roman Catholics
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government—let him con-
sider all these things, and then say whether circmstances did
not relieve the Pope from imputations of intending insult and
m
injury whenappointed '
he bishops in this country. He did
J not mean to say that the Pope could appoint bishops entitled
to sit in the House of Peers with temporal rights attached
to their bishoprics. The bishops whom the Pope had ap-
pointed claimed none of these things, yet the Noble Lord
maintained that their appointment was an insult to the
Queen and an alien on the independence of the nation.
He was as I°Y4lVtitiy other subject of her Majesty; but he
did not in this instance feel hiniself called on to join in pass-
ing a law against imaginary affronts and problematical mis-
chiefs.—(Haar, hear.) The Hon. Member for the city of
Oxford had said a great deal about the introduction of the
canon law, but he was of the opinion expressed by Sir M. Hale,
that the strength of the canon law in this kingdom could
only exist either by consent of the Parliament, or in some
pa, ticular C/1113 by immemorial usage, and that it would no
more be binding here than our law would in Italy. If the
present Bill were passed it would certainly be evaded. An
attempt was made in 1748 to force the Scotch Highlanders
to wear breeches, but they evaded the law by going clad as
before, and carrying the breeches over their shoulders.—(A
laugh!) Some equally subtle evasion would be found to de-
feat the object of this Bill, acid as it would only create irr -
tation and annoyance, he readily supported the motion that
it be read a second time that day six months.
Sir R. LOPES said that but for the very strong speech of
the [lon. and Learned Member for Plymouth against the
Bill he should notperhaps have troubled the House with any
observations on this occasion. But living in the immediate
neighbourhood of the town represented by the Hon. and
Lektneci Gentleman, '4llll knowing the almost unanimous
feeling of the inhabitants of that ti wii. to' felt, called upon to
Cly that the =entinrents which had been expreq.,e(l by the
IHon. and Learned Gentleman were totally at variance with
then of the balk, if 9.9 t with two of the whole of the Oil%

stituency, and the great mass of the. population,—(Hear.)
He felt called' upon to come forward on the present occasion,
the more especially as the Pope had included the•principal
towns of Devon in one of his newly-created bishoprics, with-
out having taken the slightest trouble to ascertain whether
he hod any locus standi in the matter. The establishment
of any such ecclesiastical arrangements by a foreign power
was not for an instant to be compared with ecclesiastical
arrangements made within our own borders by religious
communities who adhered to no foreign power. It Ro- '
man Catholics would disconnect themselves from Rome,
and own no other foreign supremacy, there would be ,an end
to the contest, and no legislation would be necessary. The
arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Plymouth
had been so promptly disposed of by the Hon. and. Learned
Member for the city of Oxford, that be should not now 'repeat
them. As a represen'ative of one of the most important
counties of England, he must state on the past of the inha-
bitants—and more especially on behalf of the inhabitants d
Plymouth—that so far from no wishing legislation on this
question, they were utterly disapp inted at the inadequaeY
of the measure brought forward by the Government.— (Hear,
hear.) The first declaration of the Noble Lord atthe heed
of the Government, and his statement in introducing the
Bill, had given mach satisfaction. He believed that the
oble Lord was sincer, and that he would have proposed the .
very different measure ief he had been allowed to have hid own
way in the matter.—(Hear.) Other legislation was • pro-
raised if the present Bill should be found ineffectual; but
the
best motto was principiis obsta. The language of the POO
proved the unalterable and domineering principle of the Ito- .
inish Church, which required implicit obedience to its SP'
norimacy. The Noble Lord seemed to think that the oontrY . ,
would tbe satisfied with the Bill as at first proposed.' rlolc '
then could the Noble Lord imagine that they would be sda"
fled with it now, that the more stringent enactments fete
omitted from it? He should vote for the second readiug
but with a hope that the more salutary parts of the ding
would be restored in Committee. '
Mr. WALTER said he had a similar excuse for nresentin ',
himself as the Hon. Member who had just sat down, for the_ ~
name of the town which he represented had been made t.,1!
of by the Pope to designate one of the Papal bishoprics.
..tes's
rode for the purpose of protesting against what he deernen.stu_
be an act of unwarranted aggression and usurpation on 77
part of the Pope. He called it an act of aggression Roan
it violated the provisions of the Act by which Rem" act of
tolics were admitted to seats in that House, and' in 3,osw •
usurpation because under no circumstances was teic..,tierei
justified in annexing territorial titles to any we
7the
office he might create in this country. In the course o
often
debate the clause to which reference bad ,been
made, in the Act of 1829, had been misquoted at lessradoLetrf
times. In that clause it was stipulated that if allY Persevet,
other than the persons authorised by law shoul assnallsna
-s, i dor
use any title of archbishop, bishop, or dean, in liable se * '
Ireland, he should for every such offence be
penalty of 100?. He had heard it contended that
referred only to existing dioceses; but having
be bad
fully not only the Act, but the debate, in anY part
theexisting" or any equivalent vrord
ins was that a
of the discussion, or of the Act. The max"— and as he
penal clause ought to be interpreted strictly ; he was
re
aedc clause'
referred
found no reference in the clause to particular sees, he foTtinbde
entitled to infer that it had a general significatiroenrred w
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon bad Act,nu and
the part he had taken in the Charitable Bequests s.
had asked what was the meaning of b` officiating i
_„"71..
trict," but having a diocese? or " ennerintenclingther7es,
gregation," but being a parish priest? se
that n°
hops of de-
murred to the right of archbishops or
1)1611°' lities, he
Romish Church claiming titles from certain loci' mds. ea-
snpplied the best answer to what he had Prelgelsebee
vanced. The speech of the Honourable and Learne
for Plymouth had been referred to, and be admitted at
itiabpai:
more able speech on that side of the question it was an bad
sible to imagine. The Hon. and Learned Gentlenl_ time
asked whether the first bishops of the Church, in,stnetekieg
of the early Roman Emperors, invaded any rights'Yseestion
the titles which they enjoyed? But tha'' ilea, was
might be met by another. What, it might be as pluses.
the notion which the first Roman Emperors had of 2.l_'s'erefe.
tian bishop? t The only notion which the early bl'
arable,
could have of a bishop must have been as of a noor
' sect,lni whose
forlorn being—the leader of a perhaps despised r
elite&
only claim to distinction was a priority of being ne °
bishop had
He contended that in those early ages the title of —,t might-
no poli,ical significance whatever. Very different ' , whieh
be after the recognition of Christianity by the orderableStaii_essee. rinotnpil
then would find itself called on to exercise en
trot over these bishops. Immediately after the Wog's_ itself
Christianity by the State the influence of the laity rearge"`sesed
felt, and from that time to the present the laciaTeurethrePoe_Ls yOlficse:" ":
1 by the civil power, had always exercised a
with that of the Church in the appointment of
believed that if the measure of the Pope was bishops'
take '
allow
only do-
effek t the dominions of the Queen would be the 1 cc..
11 minions in the world in which the full develop control s°ootres--1
clesiastical functions was allowed without the
by the laity.— (Hear, hear.) His quarrel witu
was not for his claim of spiritual authority, but for ills ff.
rence with the territorial dominion of the Cre;,7ll„ es the
objected to the form which was used on that occasw—d arm. ' '. •
most intolerable expression of spiritual dominion an, we of
gance possible. It was true forms were but the thaw°
danger of
realities, but although this country might be in novas.und
receiving any injury at the hands of Rome, still it nu
s that '
to protest against any extension of the power 0
Prompt
:
Church which did not want intentions, at least, t°
its encroachments. He did not agree with an Hon.
Learned Member who had already addressed the House, the -
the Church of Rome or its members should be allowed -s+, ,
decide for themselves that very difficult and delicate quer
tion of what constituted the difference between civil and rell:
a''
gious affairs.—(Hear.) If they were allowed to decide what
were the limits of spiritual jurisdiction, and the nature 0'
territorial titles, the Romish Church should be
permitted to.
decide also on matters of a mixed spiritual and temporal
character. He considered that the State owed to the prof"-
sors of all religions protection from the abuse of the authority.
of their superiors.—(dear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffiel"
said it was only the submission of one man's mind to 00"
ther, and asked what business was that of any one else ss
Now he (Mr. Walter) thought that was neither a hut:nano to
r
ajust view of the question. He thought we had no right t
refuse people the consolation of spiritual advice for the es:
ercise of their temporal duties.—(Hear, hear.) In most
countries abroad the State exercised a spiritual control
over the Roman Catholic Church. In Austria, for example,
no sentence of excommunication could be carried into effect
against any person unless the State was satisfied that
the offence committed was merely of a spiritual cha-
racter. The Honourable Member here referred to, and .
read, a couple of long extracts from a work by Dr. Twins on
the nature of the appointment of bishops, which the writer ,
contended was a temporal act and not a spiritual one. He
could not forget the step which the Noble Lord at the bead
of the Government had taken in respect of the present ag"
gression, nor the agitation which that step had given rise to'
That agitation would open the eyes of the Roman Catholial ' •
in a way in which they had not been hitherto opened"'
(Hear)—to an important fact, namely, the ti
deep-rooted Pro-
testantism of this country.- (Hear.) It might be praccal',"
true that the Pope might believe, and did believe, that thill
couctry was on the eve of a great Catholic movement's. e;
(Hear.) Even amongst Roman Catholics possessiaggres
information and knowledge of the world, there had prevailesi
a great mistake with respect to the religious feeling ofthist
"
country. He had had the observation• made by R°lll—
to himself that the acts of a few bewildered clergy"
men and weak-minded laymen had been mistaken for a de,;
liberate intention, on the part of the Protestant hodYste"'
England, to abandon that strong position it had hit,tert,
maintained with regard to the Church of Boma. their .
hear.) The agitation upon that question would open
e, ,
eyes to the great mistake they had made, and teach 41,
Pope to be more cautious in future in trusting the rePreo.
sentations of those who brought
the condition of this country. It would also teach
the Roman Catholics to be more careful in carrying °le
him intelligencer ,
their system of proselytising throughout the country be.
system which he thought was a calamity to be aveideute of
cause of its evil consequences and results. If the peopi,
_.
this country were once possessed of the idea that there
nest
isted any danger that an unmarried Roman Catholic Pail
would be set up side by side with their own Ptrus the
clerg,if they thought there was any danger We' ,sd
death-beds of their fellow-countrymen would be intercep;
by such a person - if there was any danger sof conlessifes
being generally introduced, or of their daughters beingstss
duced into convents—if the people of England, in fine, were
not under the impression that the law would protect the!! ,
in such cases, they would be inclined to take the law Ow
their own hands.—(Hear, hear.), The on. Member hi i.
briefly referred to the operation of the measure with respecs
to Ireland, but in so indistinct atone that we could no'
clearly catc Protestant He then went on to say that so
long as the constitution in Church and State con- -'
tinned in this empire, so long should he resist every attempt
at encroachment upon it. Although the Noble Lord, afte
his memorable letter, might have produced a measure '-.
more worthy of the expectations raised by it, he (Mr's'
Walter) would support the present Bill in the hope rat
the objects it had in view might be further and
carried out on a future occasion when it went into C°111"
mittee.--(Hear.)
Mr. ANSTEY said a reason alleged for supporting ttlive.
present Bill was that it would induce every man of_proPer'cli
however small, in Ireland, to leave that country. 1 parse
fitais
a sentiment should have been received by those Who tr
ported the Hon. Member was not astonishing, but suith.
should not have been repudiated by others was strange. lee
could not but have an exasperating effect on the Irish pe?_lnr:
and for his part he protested against such sentimens, 197;r:
he did hot think were shared in by the Ministers o_,'"
Cron n. If he thought so he would not only are,eppose7l7.o7
upon the present, but upon every other Papa .D0.7-
might introduce. It was one of the greatest and lir
B 11 tbat it
ing misfortunes of discussions upon the present &siege,
it mposed upon its opponents the temptation
ifs ft.esnst then-
by retorting with effect the accusations broug,..-rsstee lies'
selves on its supporters. If one party bad ti !!g.o 'sloveni,tll .
tace, the others had their vicars of Wre'lbits everYgle-
respect to the pi., sent agitation, he found t
man came forward, in the name of his from all sus-
of the Church, to protect himself and party
lead on the
picion in the matter, by being 'the first to
coon g __
people of this country in the chase of the common air,
hounds in Ist
the Church of Rome, in the hope that the . ,_ thought
follow carrion and not see the real game.
own particular section
Al he deceived
the Hon. Members for Oxford and Cabia
themselves if they supposed that in directing.thepeoptlf:
minds to that matter they misled the public mind belonged.
abuses said to exist in the Church to whist' they t°,e
The Hon. Member for Oxford city had shown in eit7l3-es
speech of his—not his late one—by what vie" ~. The
animated with respect to the Roman Catholic C
Hon. Member would place in the hands of thhell so this
power exercised by the Pope of appointing) Wit pewee
country and in the colonies, and would Place,sstsentended
without the interference of Parliament. He a'"sw catholic
that if the Pope attempted to regulate the RA 133"„ese of the
religion, not only in England alone, but in anY letive, He
Queen's dominions, he violated the Queen's P
- strut Quern,
(Mr. Anstey) denied that. Everybody knew rst Eng-
ecclesiastic:l law was strictly 10Cal. The Chum, Reinan
Itcuueen the
land was the Church of this realm onlY•
Catholic Church, every dissenting church,
nseaoyitienesry i;feeeon:ndia_tnu:dois
Christianity, every form of religious belief
the laws of God and nature, enjoyed as
in her Majesty's foreign dominions as the Church 0f P-, sgle,he
itself ; and the Papal bull and the letters pateinn
to
:nly
Crown rested there upon the same founclation,i bed. dtio g 'A;
d a" 9b!":;
euponnceotrhoerhem consciencesiseTohfe
ilmenoa
.asutehnelyb
erf felto
ri impxefolr 5
id
there.
they
aggression of the Pope ; but it Isa•iiiisoneotilLeca.auseera
as ber one
were Roman Catholics who protested against the pre:aere
ready to accept the tyranny
In prcesenti, the other in .f posed. The Bill before themwchoni
Hsisetecdouoldf twonor calgartiesees,lo:o;
titles.Bi l l
Didwnaost to
the onlyitleos the Church _ s,rby
land afford as much reason as the Church of Ireland
a? '''
leegpiisalcaoptealton the barren quaesftisconoro.
he thought it was with Ireland t e 01'
' d
an exemption. .
should there be an exception. at all ? If there 1/
ha ta.}.)o.
The cases of two bishoprics in
nister ougt to begin.
the Pope ha l. only interfered Fn far as to san ,tio ',se
easel
had been a.luded to, those of Ross and Galway, but rattlesn....b:,.
lie CO
tslen in file present inattvr in England, tit ewe"
S.,id been Al r g (1 v don, in 11•14 rd.
,With r'sPect to "•
vent!,` •
. . ^
Or: °fore the
wrong for the Pope to have taken the woe Dh. did not approve of it.--(Hear.) lie thouet lt `7.7:

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