The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-06 00:00:00

'censure than to praise ? What minister
er judge is otherwise resyonsible ? How other:-
Wise athenable is Ine LORD CHANCELLOR,
who htt patronage and power infinitely beyond
any other functionary ? If such a dis-
position to find fault with the Commissioners
exists before their labours have begun, will it
become dormant during their progress ? Will
our magistrates (the main causes of the exist-
ing evils), whose, importance is to be dirni-,
nished, be silent ? Will our farmers (whose
erroneous impressions of self-interest have in-
ducedthem to suppose that they are gainers by
having a portion of their labour paid out of
the rate, though they have otherwise become
the greatest sufferers by this attempt to make
dishonest gains) suffer their interests, though
mistaken, to be interfered with, without
complaint ? Will our able-bodied paupers
(who have made parish pay their plunder, but
like other plunderers have been made wretched
by their plunder) cease to be clamorous ? A
strong and a steady hand is absolutely neces-
sary to put down these abuses, and should be
strengthened, not weakened, by the public
press. Personally we do not know any one of the
poor law commissioners, and as yet no one can
know who are to be the commissioners that are
to be appointed by the bill. But we feel that
we owe it to men who have produced such a
report as they have made upon the poor laws
to acknowledge their merits, and to express our
sense of the debt of gratitude we think the
country owes them. We also owe it to the
subject to say that the public press should do
its best to assist them in prosecuting their
labours, and should not attempt to thwart
them in their very threshold. In this spirit
we shall endeavour to return to the subject.

The French papers of the 4th contain little
information. It appears by a letter from Berne
that the Swiss Diet is to be convoked, in order
to consider the final proposition of Austria re-
specting political refugees. METTERNICH
lives in great fear of them, as well as NICHO-
L AS, and they both desire that the Poles may
not be allowed to live in any part of the world
where they are likely to find sympathy and suc-
cour. Thank God, they may yet inhabit Eng-
land, but they want the means of self-support.
It appears that Austria will not permit any of
them to remain in Switzerland. The following
are extracts :

Prince Butera had his first audience of King Louis
Philip, on Saturday last, when he presented his credentials
as Ambassador of the King of Naples to the French Court.
Great bustle appeared to exist on the side of Switzerland.
Couriers between the Cantons and Paris daily passed through

Mehemet Ali, yielding to the advice of the French and
British Consuls at Alexandria, has consented to recall the
exiled Candiots, and to restore to them their sequestered
property. A conspiracy against him had been discovered
at Aleppo. Twenty persons said to be implicated in it,
were with a promptitude digne d'ennie in Europe, imme-
diately executed. Two St. Simonians, who had gone to
Egypt in search of " the free woman," and failed, had en-
tered the service of the Pacha.

The 61st regiment, in garrison in Paris, appears to have
been like others previously mentioned, impregnated with
republicanism. The 55th regiment, which had acquired
such unenviable celebrity by its doings at Grenoble and in
the Rue Transnonain, Paris, is about to be removed to
St. Cloud, partly because of the daily quarrels in which
the soldiers of it are involved with the people, and partly
because the royal family are about to take up their summer
residence in the Chateau (St. Cloud).
The news from Spain, contained in the Paris papers, is
uninteresting. Our Bayonne letter (dated 30th ult. ) states
that El Locho (a Carlist chief) had been defeated in an
action with the Queen's troops in La Mancha, on the 17th
April, with the loss of 107 men killed, and 20 prisoners.

Don CA RL OS has sent a confidential agent
to the POPE. Is it to ask for an asylum in the
Papal states, or absolution for the crime of re-
sisting the authority of the legitimate Sovereign
of his country, and aiding the usurper in Por-
tugal?

The Neapolitan government has appointed
an -ambassador without naming the place to
which he is to be sent. It is supposed that he
is to go to Spain.

The army of Don MIGUEL at Santarem is
11,500. That of the QUEEN is as follows :
SALDANHA'S army opposed to him amounts
to about 12,500, besides which the QUEEN
has 8,000 men at Oporto and Leyria, near
5,000 at Lisbon, 2,000 at Setubal and Pal-
mella, and between 4 and 5,000 in the Soule—
in all above 32,000 troops of the line ; more
than 2,000 of whom are cavalry. The troops
are regularly paid and well fed, and the com-
missariat well conducted. Since these returns
were made, the Spanish army has entered
Spain, and the PEACEFUL, or QUADRUPLE,
ALLIANCE has been formed, which gives a
moral force to the legitimate government of
Portugal far exceeding all the rest. Can the
issue be doubtful ? And what must be the
infatuation of those who still cling to the
Usurper ?

The Brussels and German papers contain
nothing of importance. JEROME BONAPARTE
is on his way to this country.
The Pesth Gazette mentions the arrival of
the Archduke FERDINAND of Este at Clau-
senburg, on the Bth April, where he was re-
ceived with great pomp.

Five per cent. Metalliques, 97% ; Four per cent., 874 ;
Bank Shares, 1242.

Colonel Torrens, following the very laudable
example set by Sir Robert Wilmot Horton, has un-
dertaken the task of delivering to the London Me-
chanics' Institution a course of lectures upon wages
and profits. The first of these lectures will be deli-
vered on Wednesday evening next, at the rooms of
the Mechanics' Institution, in Southampton-buildings.
Should the honourable member succeed in explaining
to the working classes the circumstances which cause-
wages and profits to rise or fall, he will confer upon
them, and upc-t the country, a benefit of no ordinary
magnitude.

A reduction of nearly 10 per cent. 4s. per
cwt. has taken place in the price of soap. The public
will now certainly have the full benefit of the reduction
of the duty.

FEATS IN WALKING. The power of
walking great distances without fatigue is an impor-
tant matter, in which the English have of late ex-
celled. A good walker will do six miles an hour, for
one hour, on a good road. If in perfect training he
may even do twelve miles in the two hours. Eighteen
miles in three hours is a still more doubtful affair,
though some one is said to have achieved it. At the
rate of five miles an hour, pedestrians of the first
class will do forty miles in eight hours, and perhaps
fifty in ten. At the rate of four miles an hour a
man may walk any length of time.—Walker's Manly
Exerciaci.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

THIS DAY, TUESDAY, NAY 6.

HOUSE OF COMMON&

The SPEAktR took the chair at a few minutes past
12 o'clock.

Petitions were presented by Colonel L. Hay from the
Earl of Moray and Sir H. W. Drummond against the
Edinburgh Police Bill ; by Sir E. Knatchbull, from Dart-
ford, against the Islington market. The report of the
Limerick 'Waterworks Bill was brought up by Mr. Roche.
The Suffolk Insurance Company Bill was read a second
time on the motion of Mr. Newton Shawe. The Glas-
gow and Spotts Road Bill was read a third time, on
the motion of Mr. Ewing ; the Dorchester Improvements
bill a second time, on that of Lord Ashley ; the Wisham Rail-
way Bill a second time, on the motion of Mr. Maxwell ;
the Newcastle Water-works Bill was read a second time,
as moved by Mr. Rippon. A series 'of amendments were
put and read a third time, connected with the Grand
Junction Railway Bill, introduced bylMr. Wilson Patten.
The Report of the Court of Requests was brought up by
Mr. Poulett Thomson, and ordered to be printed.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. GISBORNE was about to offer some remarks on
the subject before the house yesterday when the SPEAKER
left the chair, when
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he had had a petition
to present on the subject of agricultural distress,
from South Derby, and was anxious that an op-
portunity should be afforded him to do so ; but, as the
hon. member (Mr. Gisborne) intimated he would make a
speech, he dreaded a further postponement to the perform-
ing of what he considered a duty to the petitioners. Some
arrangements should be made to facilitate the presenting
of petitions. _

GISBORNE observed he likewise had many peti-
tions, and so had other hon. gentlemen.
_ _

Lord JOHN RUSSELL considered that it was but
reasonable that petitions should be first presented, and de-
bated afterwards.

Sir R. PEEL suggested that some classification should
take place for petitions ; let certain days be appointed for
dissenters', and others for agricultural petitions.
After a few words from Mr. WILKs and Mr. GILLoN,

The SPEAKER remarked that the arrangements pre-
viously made for presenting petitions had totally failed, in
consequence of discussions being resumed and continued
on petitions, while several hon. members were waiting for
an opportunity to present their respective petitions. If a
particular order of petitions were presented on a certain
day, and notice placed on the paper to that effect, it would
be convenient for all parties, as by reference to the notice
it could be ascertained, while an opportunity would be given
to present petitions on any particular subject.
Sir R. PEEL suggested the appointment of a select
committee of five or seven gentlemen, who would sit on
Thursday of the preceding week, for the purpose of re-
ceiving information, and arranging the presentation of
petitions. These gentlemen could ascertain the number
and nature of the petitions, and appoint, say Monday, for
agricultural petitions, and if there were a great number,
Wednesday also should be set apart. Unless ho-
nourable members would act from a sense of con-
venience, it would be impossible to get on with the
business of the house, and if that arrangement was
adopted, much time would be saved.
Lord AL THORP agreed with the suggestion of the
right hon. baronet ; the only inconvenience that would re-
sult from the committee sitting on Thursday would be that
hon. members who received petitions on Thursday could
not present them till the following week.
Sir R. PEEL observed that if the petitions belonged to
any of the classes appointed for presentation, he should not
object to their being received.

Lord AL THORP thought the experiment worth trying.
Mr. WILKS objected to the arrangement, as in or-
der to present petitions hon. members would be obliged to
attend every day in the week, whereas, by the present ar-
rangement, a gentleman having a dozen petitions upon
different subjects to present could get rid of them
altogether.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think there was any
thing very decisive in the objection of the hon. member,
when compared with the inconvenience of coming down
every day, and not being able to present one.
Mr. PEASE complained that he had never had an op-
portunity of presenting some petitions intrusted to him.
After a discussion, in which Sir R. Vyvyan, Mr. P.
Thomson, Sir R. Peel, Lord Althorp, Sir E. Knatchbull,
Mr. C. Wynn, Mr. Pryme, and Mr. Benett, took part,
The SPEAER said he thought the discussion had
gone far enough. The suggestion of the right hon. baronet
appeared to be a very good one, and it would oblige the
committee to look to the orders of the day, and make a
proper arrangement as to the petitions which should be
presented at each sitting.
Petitions from protestant dissenters, praying for relief
from grievances, were then presented by Mr. Gisborne,
from Walsall and other places in Staffordshire ; by Mr. 31.
Phillips, from places in Manchester; by Mr. Gillon, from
various places in Scotland, praying for the separation of
church and state,:the:signatures being 58,782 ; byMr. Houlds-
worth, from places in Nottingham, in favour of the established
Church ; by Mr. Wilks, from Blackburn; from the Rev.
Dr. Pye Smith and congregation, at Hackney ; from the
Rev. H. Townley, Spitalfields ; from White End-road
Chapel ; from Walford, Herts ; from Cottenham. Cam-
bridge ; from Haddenham, Isle of Ely ; from Stone, Staf-
fordshire ; from New Broad-street, London ; from Apple-
don, against the Church Rates Bill ; and from the Pro-
testant Society for the protection of religious liberty,
against the same bill ; by Mr. Lloyd, from Stock-
port ; by Sir Edward Knatchbull, from Graduates of
Oxford and Cambridge, residing in East Kent, against
the bill introduced by Lord John Russell, by Mr. D. W.
Howie, from various places in Essex ; from Suffolk, by an
hon. member; by Mr. Benett, from Wiltshire; by Sir
R. Vyvyan, from the graduates of Oxford and Cambridge,
residing near Bristol, against the bill of Lord John Rus-
sell ; by Mr. Shaw, from Aldborough and other places ;
'by Col. Williams, rom several places in Lancashire ; by
Mr. Pease, from Warminster and other places ; by Mr.
P. Williams, from Great Marlow ; from Bradford, signed
by 6,000 persons ; by Mr. Stewart, from Hereford ; by
Mr. Gisborne, from Manchester, signedby 22,000 persons.
Mr. P. THOMSON supported the last petition in some
of its statements, but said it ought not to be consideredas the
petition of the number of dissenters by which it professed
to be signed, for there was a great difference of opinion
among dissenters themselves as to what they really re-
quired. At all events he should never support the separa-
tion of church and state.

Mr. GILLON expressed a hope that the petitions which
had been presented would receive that attention which so
numerous and eminently intelligent and influential a body
of people deserved. They formed a striking contrast to
the declaration of the established church, which was
hawked about for signatures, and, after all, could obtain
but very few. He could answer for the people of Scot-
land, that they were attached to their own form of wor-
ship, but not all to the connection between church and
state. The hon. member then went into statements
showing that in the city of Edinburgh the collections
were greater in dissenting places than in the churches,
and that the seats in the former were more nu-
merous and constantly occupied than in the latter,
the people choosing to act upon the voluntary
principle ; and the disparity of the number of communicants
in all England, was as 6 to 1 out of the whole popula-
tion in favour of the Dissenters.
Colonel EVANS, in supporting the prayer of the peti-
tion, stated his hope that the tone of the present peti-
tions, on this subject, would convince his Majesty's
ministers that half measures would not do. In his
opinion, the strong statements in the petitions were
justified by the meas\ures which had been introduced by
his Majesty's ministers measures as meagre as it was
possible to conceive. In' his opinion, the cumpulsory
principle was not necessary to induce religious belief.
With the exception of Constantinople and Madrid, there
were no capitals in the world but London that had not in-
stitutions empowered to grant those privileges of which
the dissenters complained of being deprived.
Mr. LANGDALE was willing to grant relief to the
dissenters with respect to births and marriages, but could
not go the extent of the petition, for the separation of
church and state.

Lord ALTHORP concurred with several of the hon.
members who had addressed the house in the course
of the debate, that it was a great grievance on the dissen-
ters to compel them to go through a religious ceremony
of which they disapproved. The bill introduced by his
noble friend, in his opinion, removed those grievances
entirely. (Hear.) The dissenters were dissatisfied
with that measure, because it did not go the whole
length which they requested. In his opinion the Mar-
riage Bill would have removed every grievance of which
the dissenters had cause to complain. (Hear, hear,
hear.) With :respect to the entire separation of
the church from the state, that was to say the
destruction of the established religion of the country, he
could not concur, but he was quite prepared to go. as
far as he could consistently with the preservation
of the established religion, in giving the dissenters
relief from every grievance that could press upon
them, with respect to the marriage rites, church
rates, or general registration. Though great dis-
satisfaction had been expressed with respect to the
bill which he had introduced for the relief of the
dissenters, he felt that it would give satisfaction. He had
heard no arguments urged to convince him of the neces-
sity of altering it.
Mr. OSWALD could not agree with the prayer of the
petition which prayed for a separation of church and state.
After some observations from Lord CLE3IENTS, Sir R.
VYVYAN, and Mr. Maim PHILLIPS, in explanation, it
being three o'clock, the SPEAKER left the chair, and the
debate was adjourned.