The Sun.
London, England, 1834-07-30 00:00:00

ECCLESIASTICAL RETURNS.

Colonel PERCEVAL asked why certain Returns, ordered
three months ago, had not yet been made by the Solicitor to
;he Ecclesiastical Board in Ireland?

Mr. LITTLETON had no knowledge upon the subject,
but surmised that the preparation of the Returns required
much time.

Colonel PERCEVAL added that it would not take ten
minutes to make one of the Returns called for by the House.

IRISH TITHE BILL.

Mr. O'CONNELL rose to take the sense of the House on
a question of which he had given notice, his object being the
postponement of the further consideration of the Irish Tithe
Bill until the next Session. He would confine himself to as
few topics as possible ; and first he would remind Hon. Mem-
bers that the main measure contained 172 clauses, and that two
smaller Bills, in the shape of additional clauses, extended the
number to no fewer than 200. He need not remind them that
they were called to the consideration of them on the 29th
July. The effect of the measure upon the people of Ireland
was double—it applied to the tithe-payers and to the tithe-
receivers, and was indisputably of vital importance to that
country. All men must be aware how much of the dis-
turbances of the last sixty years had arisen from the fruit-
ful source of the tithe-system in Ireland. Nobody would
assert that all the disturbances had arisen out of it, but they
had been mixed up with it ; dissatisfaction had thus been
accumulated, and the sentiments of the people had been em-
bittered by it. He had not the least doubt that Ministers
intended this measure to be healing and salutary; but if ever
a bill had been introduced requiring the fullest and the most
deliberate consideration, it was that now before the House ;
and he did not exaggerate when he stated that upon it de-
pended the tranquillization Of Ireland more than upon any other
measure or class of measures that could be mentioned. Perhaps
Hon. Gentlemen did not advert to the immense advantage
which, during the last twelve yeas s, tithe-owners had obtained
by legislation over tithe-payers. Eleven years ago tithe-
owners were amenable to public opinion, and even to those
from whom they received their tithes, and the consequence
was, that in nine instances out of ten, the tithe-owner was
obliged to assent to a fair and reasonable composition. He
readily did the Irish clergy, as a body, the justice of admitting
that where they themselves lovied tithes without the intervention
of a proctor, with some marked exceptions, they were just and
lenient. Another advantage to the tithe-payer was, that if the
owner did not collect the tithe each year he lost it for ever. Up
to the period of which he was now speaking, there had been
many partial insurrections, for such he called the distur-
bances on account of tithes. Afterwards the Commutation
Act was passed, and it gave to the owners a great advantage
over tithe payers, an advantage of which they did not neglect
to avail themselves. They had powers of distraining, of sus-
taining actions without proof of contract, every possible power
that could be bestowed on them, greater than those possessed
by landlords themselves. His Majesty's Government at that
time, as would appear from the debates, exulted in the thought
that they had finally settled the question. And what had the
result been ? Why, that at the end of six years from passing
the act, Ireland exhibited a greater picture of disturbance and
disunion than ever—disunion to everything but opposition to
the collection of tithes. He implored the Government to re-
flect on this, and not by persevering in the same system to
turn over another leaf in the same book of calamity. What
were they now going to give the tithe owners ? a demand
on the treasury to be secured by the proprietor by a rent
charge, chargeable on the best property of the country.
And this was intended to quiet Ireland ! Now, what would
be its effects The measure was not a uniform one, and there
would be an uncertainty and variation in the harges on
the various parishes: of Ireland. He could quite compre-
hend any measure for quieting immediate and existing
discontents, even though that measure should require sacrifices
from the tithe owners, or tithe payers, or both. He could
easily understand the value and importance of an immediate
remedy ; but this bill, he would implore the House to recol-
lect, could not come into complete operation till 1839. They
might as well talk of postponing the settlement of the tithe
question for ever. By this bill, from the Ist of November,
next, and including that day, the present tithe owners would
cease to have any claim upon the land. But with regard to
everything due before that time, they would be left to their
usual and present resources. According to the tithe compo-
s'llon act, the tithe owner must distrain for his claim within
12 months after it was due or not at all. Now look what
would be the effect of this limitation ; it would just operate
as Lord Tenterden's limitation Act had--(Hear)—as a notice
to every man to come forward and distrain, and urge all dor-
mant claims, lest they should be for ever foregone. Then in
addition to this, from the Ist of November, they would begin
collecting in the 1,000,0001. , or the 800,0001. of it which had
been expended. Indeed, whatever might be the feeling of the
parties, there was one class of dormant claims which must be
made against those of deceased testators, for if the executors
forebore to make them, a court of equity would charge them
with the amount as assets in their hands. He knew it
had been said in private that those dormant and out-
standing claims were not numerous. He believed, how-
ever, that the amount was greater than was imagined.
At all events their paucity in number was an additional reason
for Government interfering by the present Bill, and taking
into their own hands the entire of these claims. And then,
in addition to all these, they would have to collect their own
land-tax, or rent-charge. So that the month of November
next, if this Bill passed at once in its present shape, ought to
be a sanguinary month.—( Hear.) He did not say it as a threat
or taunt, but he deeply feared that such would be the effect of
the harvest of litigation and contention which would then be
reaped ; thereby increasing the existing hostility to tithes,
and aggravating present dangers. How much better would it
be to bring in a Bill founded on one uniform plan. By the
present measure, an allowance was to be made to landlords,
varying from 25 to 40 per cent. Now what, he asked, would
be the practical consequence of such a variation ? Suppose
three nearly adjoining farms, one paying the rent-charge of 100
per cent., the next 75 per cent., and the third, in an adjacent
county, divided only by an imaginary line, paying only 60 per
cent., what would be said by these farmers when they met to-
gether at the same market, and compared their relative situa-
tions ? How contented they would be They would be told it
was according to the law and the Act of Parliament. Wjiat
great additional respect it would give them for laws and Acts
of Parliament I—( Hear.) How it would increase the filial
respect which they felt for the species of protection they had
been in the habit of receiving from Acts of Parliament
This, surely, was not the way to quiet the country. He
did not doubt that Ministers were actuated by the purest
intentions ; bat had they the most opposite notions, they
could not have thrown together a more complete olio of
contradictions and difficulties, or one more calculated to excite
riot and disturbance. Forty per cent. He did not deny it
was a boon. • But why not give it at once and to all ? Instead
of bidding and huckstering with the landlords about it, let
them give it at once, and levy the rate.—( Hear, hear.) The
Government supposed that by holding out this temptation, they
would get the landlords to come into their plan ; and probably
many would—many honourable men—who would allow their
tenantry the benefit of what they received from the Govern-
ment; but he feared there were many others who would jump
at it as a bargain to benefit themselves alone. These landlords
would be regarded by the peasantry as tithe-proctors, and
every one knew in what degree of esteem they were held in
Ireland. For his part, he should not like to be the man to
collect that landlord's rents. It was a great evil, that the feel-
ing which had hitherto existed against the tithe-owner alone,
was extending itself to the landlord. The waters of bitter-
ness were swelling in that direction. This was no party ques-
tion. It was admitted on both sides of the House, as one of
the greatest evils of these agrarian disturbances, that they had
the effect of assailing the rents ; and he very much feared that
the position in which this Bill would place the land-
' lords would draw the agrarian disturbances in that di-
rection.—( Hear, hear.) How much better then would it

be to postpone this Bill to next session, and suffer all
these serious objections to be weighed in the interim. Be-
sides, there was another most important objection to proceed-
ing with the present Bill. They had issued a Commission, a
commission approved of by themselves, a commission, perhaps,
too tedious in its details, but founded on a principle full of hope
for Ireland. It was impossible for Government to go on next
session without some general plan of tithe appropriation.—
( Hear.) They could not form a judgment on this subject till
they had obtained the report of that Commission. How much
better, then, to defer the final settlement of the question till
then, and form the whole into one uniform system. Let them,
then, moderate that little, if they found it too much, or in-
crease it if they found it too little ; for of this he assured
them, that if the appropriation were satisfactory, they would
find the collection of tithes in Ireland much more easy. The
success of any or every system they attempted to establish,
must depend upon the nature of the appropriation. If they
postponed the measure, they would have time to deliberate
whether they could not, with advantage, frame the Bill in a
different way. Whether it would not be better to make the
abatement forty per cent. certain for three years, with the
power of diminishing the allowance to landlords by whom, or
in districts by which it was opposed. In fact, all they ought
to do depended on the result of the Commission, and if they
did not postpone their Bill, they could not expect to make
it any thing but a piece of patchwork. The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman then animadverted on the with-
drawal of the redemption clause, which they could not pro-
perly settle till they had settled the appropriation. He thought
that such a plan of redemption might be devised as would
obtain for them that which was the only method of
getting rid of dissatisfaction in Ireland—the final extinction
of tithes. Again let them consider the advanced period of the
session—let them look at the thin state of the House on a dis-
cussion that at another period would have filled its walls. Two-
thirds of the Members were out of town, and the ;majority of
those who attended to its business were gentlemen connected
with the Government, who must necessarily feel disgusted at
having a discussion forced upon them when their votes were
previously engaged. Surely it was not right to decide upon
so important a measure, and now open to so many objections,
under such circumstances; nor was such hop step and jump
legislation calculated to attract the confidence of the people of
Ireland. But the question would be put to them, what they
would do if the measure were postponed ? He admitted that
was a question which he was bound to answer, for it could not
be left as it was. Well, this then was what he proposed.
There was from 200,0001. to 300,0001. of the million not yet
disposed of. Ho knew, indeed, that 820,0001. had been
claimed, but many of those claims had been disallowed, and
reduced. He knew that in the South especially many im-
proper claims were advanced one especially, in the county of
Cork, where the Barrister (Mr. Anderson) actually produced
to him the receipts for the tithes which he claimed, and he still
insisted on his claim, because the peasantry had forgotten to
give the requisite notice of opposition.—( Hear.) The Bar-
rister, however, refused his claim. In relation to what he had
said before, he would remark that persons who made such
claims, were not likely to fail in bringing forward before No-
vember next any which were at all colourable. Well, these
claims were at present, say 200,000/. ; to that he would ask
them to add 150,000/. more, pledging the House by a re-
solution that it should not come upon the general taxation
of the country, or upon the Consolidated Fund. Bet let it,
if they pleased, be raised by Exchequer Bills, especially and
solely chargeable on the tithe-property of Ireland. He
_s_sam
no objection to thus anticipating the tithe, and he would
warrant they would get the money in half an hour in the city
of Dublin alone.—( Hear.) They were substantially arrang-
ing this question as a new Government, and therefore would
be bound only by their own opinions of expediency ; and he
urged them, therefore, to adopt a course which would lead to
the most satisfactory settlement of the question, and if they
thought any parties would not take the money, they had only
to tell them that they would not give them the assistance of
the military or police in collecting their tithes, and they
would put forth no other proclamation. He was sorry such
a feeling existed amongst the Clergy as there did. What he
was going to relate he could prove by an Hon. Member of
that-House, who was coming in the packet from Cork with the
clergyman in question. He asked the clergyman whether he
would take any of the million, who replied he would not touch
a farthing of it, but that he sold his tithes, 800/., to a tithe
proctor for 450/. ready money, on the express stipulation that
he should not give up one farthing to the:" rascals. "—( Hear.)
The advance of this sum would suffice till the next session,
when the Commission would have made its report, which
report, together with the plans of the Government, he
should propose be referred to a Select Committee, con-
sisting of gentlemen of all parties and opinions, who might
give the subject their most deliberate attention, and if
then they failed in tranquillizing Ireland, it would be im-
possible to deny that they had done their utmost to ac-
complish it. He was sure there was nothing in the
temper or character of the Irish people to render it
.likely that
an experiment of justice and kindness should fail. No man
would say by experience that it would, for but few such expe-
riments had been tried, and one which had been made was ac-
companied by a rigid refusal to carry its consequences into
effect. Let them only come to the determination deliberately,
and it would be sure to be satisfactory. He apologized for de-
taining the House so long, and would conclude by moving,
that the Bill be committed that day six months.
Mr. LITTL ETON said he was happy to inform the House
that the Bill had been materially reduced in point of length,
and that instead of 200 clauses, it now consisted of not more
than 70 or 80. He would first of all advert to the concluding
part of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech. His pro-
position was, that the Government should repeat the measure
of last year. There were many bad consequences which would
ensue upon such a step. He was not blind to the consequences
of that measure. He was not blind to the consequences
of a long desuetude of payment, and if they now repeated
the experiment beforehand, they would be giving such. a
sanction to the principle of resistance, that by the time
they obtained the report on the appropriation, there would
be nothing left to appropriate. The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman had alluded to the inequality of the tithe under the
present Bill. Now, out of thirty-two counties in Ireland,
it was presumed that the allowance of 40 per cent. would
be taken.in twenty-five, whilst the remaining counties were
those which were now exclusively Protestant, and where the
least resistance was to be anticipated. He was not certain
that it was necessary, in the present stage, for him to follow
the Hon. and Learned Member through all his observations.
But it appeared to him that the Right Hon. Gentleman's ob-
ject was, by obtaining delay, to render the collection of tithes
still more difficult.—( Hear.) He did not mean to impute
to the Hon. and Learned Member personally any improper mo-
tives ; but he was so deeply mixed up in the resistance to
tithes, that he did not think it possible for the Government to
introduce any plan which should not meet with his opposition ;
and though the Hon. Gentleman did express some gratitude
to the Government for their exertions to conciliate all parties
in Ireland, yet he thought sufficient credit was not given them
for their efforts—efforts which, he was happy to say, he be-
lieved, from the communications he had received, to have
been most successful, and which would -ultimately be produc-
tive of the most beneficial effects. From these communica-
tions he had great reason to believe that the landlords would
voluntarily take upon themselves the payment of the tithe,
and that they would ultimately lead to their final extinction.
He believed also that the majority of these landlords would al-
low their tenants the benefit of what they received from the
Government, and treat the concession as pro tanto an absolute
extinction.

Mr. SHE IL contended that it would be much more advan-
tageous to adopt the plan of his Hon. and Learned Friend.
The English Tithe Bill, which was introduced at the begin-
ning of the Session, had been withdrawn because it had met
with some opposition in England ; yet the Government obsti-
nately, and in the teeth of the Irish Members, persisted in
forcing on the Irish Tithe Bill, which had only been recently
introduced. The value of the tithes in Ireland had been
greatly overrated. The clerical tithes were estimated at five-
and-twenty years purchase instead of thirteen, which was all
their value ; and the estimate of the lay tithes was three mil-
lions, instead of one. A Bill so important in its nature ought
not to be decided in the absence of so many English and
Irish Members. Why not postpone the proceedings for some
time at least? It had been declared by his Majesty's Govern-
ment that they were ready to call Parliament together, if ne-
cessary, in the month of October, for the purpose of coercing
Ireland. Why not call Parliament together at the same pe-
riod for the purpose of relieving Ireland ? It was painful to
see the disinclination of Government to listen to the opinions
of the Irish Members. Surely the Members for Ireland must
know that country better than the Members of his Majesty's
Cabinet, not one of whom, with the exception of the Right
Hon. Secretary for the Colonies, knew anything whUever of
Ireland. He (Mr. Shell) had a great respect for that Right
Hon. Gentleman, who had frequently evinced his love for his
country, the sincerity of whose love, however, might, in
future, be doubted, if he supported the Bill under consi-
deration.
Mr. HENRY GRA,TT A N denied that the Bill would at
all effect that which it was described as calculated to effect,
namely, the permanent settlement of the question of tithes in
Ireland. It was impossible that a measure, the completion of
which was to hang over till 1839, could have such a result.
The Bill gave his Majesty's .Government powers which they
never before possessed. Forty per cent. was to be allowed to
landlords for the collection of tithes which would never be
paid. The lessees of large estates would resist the payment of
tithes a much as those of small. The sixth clause shut for
ever the door against any other appropriation of the tithe than
that which at present existed. Having taking away the re-
demption clause, and having introduced this appropriation
clause, all hope of the ultimate extinction of tithes was done
away. What he strongly recommended in substitution of such
a measure, was to lay a tax on all the land in Ireland, to put
the amount into the Exchequer, and to pay out of that fund
whatever might be required for the maintenance of the Pro-
testant clergy. Instead of the very large, and the very small
sums which were now paid to that clergy, a just and reasonable
provision, proportioned to the labour of the clergyman, and ave-
raging, perhaps, some such sum as 3001. a year might be esta-
blished. Among other benefits it would relieve the Protestant
clergyman in Ireland from the painful necessity of asking for
eleemosynary fees from a beggarly and - bankrupt popula-
tion ; and it would prevent a continuance of the present
system of enforcing the payment of the Clergy by police and
troops. An instance of great violence on the part of the troops
and police, in the collection of tithes, had occurred in the
county of Monaghan. Mr. Curran, a son of the celebrated
man whose memory was so distinguished, was sent down to
that district to inquire into the subject ; but the report which
he made very much dissatisfied the people, who considered it
an outrageous one. And yet that gentleman had been appointed
a member of the Commission lately issued to inquire into the
state of tithes in Ireland. Parliament would never redeem the
pledge which Mr. Pitt had given to the people of Ireland at
the Union ; they had never attempted to remove the sources

of discontent in that country. If they did not endeavour to do
so soon, that discontent would grow to a height which would
be found exceedingly dangerous. His Majesty's Government
passed over the petitions of the Irish people on this subject, as
if they were of no value ; although they did not do so on the
Reform question. Since the introduction of the present Bill,
no fewer than 700,000 names had been enrolled in Ireland in
hostility to it. Did the grave and wise people of England
think that the system at present pursued with respect to Ire-
land would last ? It could not last. They were legislating
not only against common sense, but against their own charac-
ter, with a total disregard of public honour, and national re-
putation.
Lord ALT HORP observed that the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin had admitted, that if Parliament only pro-
posed the present measure, without the introduction of any
substitute, great inconvenience would be the result. The sub-
stitute which the Hon. and Learned Member proposed was an
advance of money, in order to enable his Majesty's Government
to go on till the next session of Parliament, without taking any
definite step in the arrangement of the question of Irish tithes.
His Right Hon. Friend (the Secretary for Ireland) had, how-
ever, clearly stated what must be the consequence of any such
proceeding, namely, that so long as cessation in the collection
of Church property, would make it almost a matter of impos-
sibility to collect it at all. Now he did not believe that that
was the object of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, or his
friends ; for, however they might differ with his Majesty's Go-
vernment- as to the appropriation of Church property, they all
agreed that that property ought not to be abandoned. Unless,
however, some step were taken to show that that property
would be collected, its relinquishment would soon ensue
as a matter of course. The Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber had made some observations on what might be the effect
of landlords, by this bill pursuing different courses ; some
taking the bonus offered by the bill, and others not doing so ;
and he had stated that in some cases the tenants would have
to pay the whole of the tithes, in others only 75 per cent. of
the tithes, and in others only 60 per cent. In his (Lord
Althorp's) opinion, the tendency of this would be to produce
a more rapid commutation of the tithes by the prospect of be-
nefit which that commutation would hold out. " But," said
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, " why not do that at once
which you now propose to spread over the space of five years."
That proposition had been under the serious consideration of
his Majesty's Government; but it had been thought better,
instead of subjecting the landlords to any compulsory condi-
tion, to leave the matter to their own option. Most undoubt-
edly it was the wish of his Majesty's Government to carry their
plan into effect at as early a period as possible, and he repeated
that the only ground on which they abstained from insisting on
an immediate composition was not disinclination to that result,
but a disposition to avoid throwing on the landlord a bur-
then which he might not be prepared at once to endure.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Tipperary (Mr. Sheil)
argued that because Ministers had postponed the English Tithe
Bill, they ought to defer to the wishes of the representatives
of Ireland, and postpone the Irish Tithe Bill. Now he (Lord
Althorp) begged to say that the results of such postponement
would be very different in the two countries. In England,
there would be little, if any, of dissatisfaction ; certainly no
breach of the public peace, and tithes would continue to be
paid. But in the present state of public feeling in Ireland,
not only would no money be paid, but there would be con-
fusion and bloodshed. Hon. Gentlemen had said that they
ought to leave to the tithe owners the power of recovering their
arrears. Now he (Lord Althorp) believed that in amount they
were very small. He believed, in fact, that with the advances
made by Government, and the collection that had since been
effected, the arrears were smaller than many Hon. Gentlemen
supposed. Therefore, by postponing the bill, they would not
prevent the danger which it was supposed would attend the
collection of a large amount of arrears. With respect to
what had been stated on the 6th clause, he felt bound to
say that he concurred with the view taken by the Hon.
and Learned Member for Tipperary—( Hear, hear)—and
though he did not think it ought to be withdrawn in Committee,
still he thought that a desirable alteration might be effected.
At all events he would attempt to alter it so as to obviate
the just objections which had been taken to certain parts
of it.—( Cheers.) Here he begged leave to say that he had
never thrown on a late Right Hon. Colleague of his (Mr.
Stanley) the sole responsibility of the previous Tithe Bill, or
the sole discredit of their failure. It was not his habit to
throw on others a responsibility or a censure which might
partly apply to himself.—( Hear, hear.) He had in the be
ginning approved of all those measures, and given them his
hearty support, but subsequent experience convinced him that
they were not calculated to work out the great practical re-
sults which he, in common with that Right Hon. Friend, and
in common with the other Ministers of the Crown, anticipated.
Therefore, he must in fairness say, that a part of the shame of
failure—if there were any, when they all did for the best—
most assuredly attached to him in common with his Right
Hon. Friend.—( Hear.) The proposition now made by Go-
vernment had one great object, to throw the tithes on the land.
lord, and thus relieve the occupying tenant ; and to induce the
landlord to take this responsibility, by giving to him, or, more
Properly speaking, by giving to his estate, rather than to him-
self—a handsome bonus. By so doing, he hoped they did that
which would ultimately tend to the satisfaction of Ireland,
and the consolidation of the strength and resources of the two
countries. He well knew the difficulty of the question—he
was fully alive to the embarrassments which surrounded it, but
he honestly thought that, in the course they were now taking,
they were going far to supply a remedy to that great evil
which so powerfully afflicted Ireland. It was said, " Why not
wait awhile, and call Parliament together again at an early
period, to adopt some measure in reference to tithes ? But
really this argument, in his eyes, carried with it no validity
whatever. Then, too, it was said that the Irish Members were
away, or going away. Really, if the objections of those Hon.
Gentlemen to the present Bill were not sufficiently strong to
induce them to remain throughout the discussion, he did not
think they would be justified in declining, for the present, to
legislate upon the subject.—( Hear, hear.) This was rather a
strange way of maintaining their own position. He thought
it was the duty of that House to proceed with the Bill, and at
least endeavour to do something to restore tranquillity to a
distracted country. Let it be remembered that the subject
was not new—that the question had long agitated the public
mind—that there had been ample time for the full considera-
tion of the Bill before them.—( Hear, hear.) The case
was urgent, and he conscientiously believed that if they did
not now take it into their serious consideration, with the
view of settling the public mind, and coming to some
practical decision upon it, that greater danger and confusion
might ensue, which would entail upon them a responsibility
which he, for one, was not willing to bear.—( Loud cheers. )
Mr. LYNCH said he should vote for the amendment of the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, because he felt satis-
fied they would be no more able to collect the fund after the
passing of the present Bill than they were now. Their present
object seemed to be to take the odium of tithes from the
shoulders of the parsons and throw it on his Majesty. They
were legislating on wrong premises. He (Mr. Lynch) was for
appropriation before everything ; but if he could not get that,
then was he for redemption on fair and just terms. It was a
strange and melancholy fact, that all their measures on this
subject had proved worse than useless—they had failed in all
their other bills, and now the only success that would attend
them would be that of alienating the affections of the people,
and bringing the law and the Government into still greater
contempt and disrepute. The dispute formerly was only be-
tween the castle and the tenant ; now they had managed to
drag the parson, the landlord, the tenant, and the Crown into
direct collision—they had mixed up tithes with taxes, and rent
with both.

Mr. WARD had paid an earnest attention to the argu-
ments brought forward in support of his • amendment by
the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin, and
after giving them his most serious and dispassionate con-
sideration, felt bound to say, that though they carried
much weight in their application to certain clauses, yet that,
they did not at all affect those general principles on whicif
the Bill was founded. In his opinion, the question of arrears
required the immediate consideration of the Government ;
whether those arrears were great or small was not then the
point—there were arrears, and that point peremptorily de-
manded, and ought, without any delay, to have the best at-
tention of the Government.—( Hear, hear.) Now, he ac-
knowledged that in the principle of the measure then before
them there was much that was sound, much that was rational
—that was fair, aye, and that was in a kindly spirit too.—
(Cheers.) The removal of the obnoxious burden from the
tenantry to the landlord, he always considered to be a sine qua
non in any measure which was really intended to settle the
question of tithe. This was to be effected, and in a way, too,
that he heartily approved, by offering such liberal terms as
would induce the landlords to coincide with the views of Go-
vernment. Some arguments he had intended to have addressed
to the House on this part of the measure had been forestalled
by previous speakers, and he should not repeat them ; but he
wished to say a word or two on the question of appropriation,
which had been mooted by the Honourable and Learned
Member for Dublin. That Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man stated that he, for one, would not take any steps to pre-
serve tithes till he knew to what purposes they were to be
applied.—( Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. Ward) looked at that
as a totally distinct question. He certainly thought it desir-
able that they should have decided the question of appro-
priation on a former occasion, by which the subject would have
been simplified, correct principles avowed, and an equitable
settlement sooner obtained. But then the House thought
otherwise, and declared that they could not safely legislate on
so delicate a subject without further information ; but, at the
same time, they had given a distinct pledge—a pledge that
nothing could do away with—that the question should not be
lost sight of, that it must and should be entertained at the
commencement of the next session, with a view of putting the
principle itself into active operation.—( Cheers.) Every
leading Minister of the Crown had declared his sentiments in
such a way that there could, hereafter, be no doubt with re-
gard to them. They Iliad been plain enough, straightforward
enough, explicit enough, to satisfy every reasonable friend of
the principle of appropriation.—( Cheers.) He agreed with
the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that it was
their duty not to postpone this measure to another year, which,
perhaps, might prove fatal to the fund itself, and leave them
nothing for appropriation. When, however, they did come to
the principle involved in that question, it would be found how
unflinchingly he would insist on the fullest latitude being given
to its operation.—( Hear, hear.) At present he wished to
confine himself to its preservation, with the view of its being
applied hereafter (vested rights being respected) to national
purposes. When those vested rights had fallen in, not one
shilling would he allow, nor did he believe Parliament would
allow, beyond the absolute justice and necessity of the case.
The Bill, which in committee might receive any alteration
that was necessary, should have his best support, as its leading
principles had his warm approbation,—( Cheers.)
Mr. WA DD Y (Wexford) said, that though the Irish
Members in that House might be outnumbered, still he could
not doubt but that their evidence would receive attention and

respect—( Loud cries of "Hear, bear")---and he told them, from
a long experience of the state of Ireland, that no measure they
could pass would give satisfaction which did not fully acknow-
ledge the rights of the people. All measures of a different
character would prove equally inefficacious with those which
had preceded them, and be sent to the " tomb of all the Ca-
pulets," to moulder with ancestors as rotten and as worthless
as themselves. Appropriation was the great question—that
was the touchstone—on its solution depended everything.-
-( Cheers.) Unless they established the grand principle
that nothing should be paid to a church from which nothing
was wanted—from which nothing was taken—they would never
establish peace in Ireland : and as to a voluntary payment of
tithe, oh ! the thought was ridiculous.—( Cheers.) They
wanted no such law as the one under discussion. They
wanted what would reconcile the people to the tithe—the
tithe to justice--and the country to the Government—
( Hear, hear.) He thought when he heard that a Scotchman
was to be Attorney-General for England, that there was in-
deed some hope for Ireland, for the Scotch had been educated,
as it were, in a religious quarrel with tithes, and had struck
down the monster with their own strong arm. Sure he was
that a Scotch Attorney-General for England, legislating for
Ireland—(Laughter)--could not frame a Bill to compel his
countrymen to pay such an impost as tithe ; there was not an
honest man in the whole clan of Campbell but what scouted
such a tax.--( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He called upon
them to defer the present Bill, and hereafter to intro-
duce one which would effectually strike at the root of the
evil ; but he called upon them, above all, never to let the
words tithe-war be so much as whispered in that House.—
(Loud cries of " Hear.")
Dr. LUSHINGTON did not hesitate to admit that the
present Bill was complicated and contradictory, but that it
was impossible it should be otherwise, both from the nature of
the case itself, and the number of acts which were necessarily
affected by the present measure. They could not well post-
pone the present measure without calling in the aid of English
money. Though he was ready to grant a sum in case of need
to the people of Ireland, he declared he would not consent to
vote one farthing for the Church of that country.—( Cheers.)
It was because the tithe was not the property of the owner of
the soil, because, after the Church had been becomingly pro-
vided for, there would be found a considerable surplus, which
surplus he was determined should be equitably and properly
distributed—it was bepause that the Church had too long
wallowed in wealth, that he would not consent to lavish
sums on her to which she was not entitled, thmigh be might
contribute them with pleasure to the necessities and wants
of' the people at large.—( Cheers.) He thought, indeed,
that the Church of Ireland stood upon a basis which it was
impossible for the ingenuity of man to reconcile to the prin-
ciples of honesty, of right, or of justice.—( Loud cheers.)
There was no greater enemy to his country than he who
would perpetuate this state of things.--( Hear, hear.) What I
would they for ever tie the living body to the dead ?
( Cheers.) Such a Church was opposed to the spirit of the
age, and, in his heart, he believed was revolting to the word of
God. He wished the present Bill to be proceeded in because
he thought it would have a )..eneficial effect, and rescue a fund
that might otherwise fleet away. Next session they would
have the question of appropriation to decide upon. For
his own part, he should be willing to provide for vested
interests—he wished to bring no man to poverty—he
would much prefer to raise all men above want ;
but when those interests had been provided for, and
when they had ascertained the positive extent of the demand
for the Protestant population, not one shilling would he vote
away on the vain and absurd notion which had lately been
bandied about, of the expansiveness of Protestantism. The
Irish landlords would be laenefitted to the amount of 40 to 20
per cent. by the conversion of the land-tax into a rent charge.
Now, he begged to ask whether the English landlords woul d
not be more than content if they could obtain such a reduction
of their tithes ?—( Hear.) He could not believe that Hon.
Members would oppose this desirable measure, and leave Ire-
land in its present unsettled condition. He was convinced that
when the Irish people knew that the Legislature had resolved
to reform the Irish Church, they would give the House some
credit for consulting their wishes, and would unite with the
landlord to carry this plan into effect, and thereby abolish
many of the evils which now prevailed. The Hon. Gentle-
man, after expressing his disapprobation of the plan for invest-
ing the ecclesiastical funds in land, called upon Hon. Members
to co-operate in perfecting this measure in Committee, and to
abandon that strenuous opposition which would not only pre-
vent conciliation, but would be attended by no good.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL contended that the measure was
inefficient, and that there was no immediate exigency which
required its adoption. The landlord would not obtain an in-
creased rent from his tenant, and he would then be compelled
to adopt those harsh proceedings which had hitherto met with
the deepest condemnation. He recommended them to take off
at once 40 per cent. from the tithes, and to wait for the report
of the Commissioners now in Ireland, before they considered
the subject of appropriation.
Mr. BARRON deprecated any delay, as he considered that
the measure would be a great boon to the peasantry. He
thought some Hon. Members had treated the Government un-
handsomely, for, at a meeting of the Liberal Members of that
House, they agreed to withdraw their opposition, on the Go-
vernment making three concessions. The Government had
consented to withdraw the appropriation clause, to have a new
valuation where complaints were made, and to take off 40 per
cent. instead of two-fifths, and yet the opposition to the measure
was still continued.
Mr. FRYER said that this Bill was intended to benefit the
landlord and not the poor tenant, and he thought it cowardly
in the Government not to put the full value of the tithe upon
the land. He was convinced that the Bill would never give
satisfaction to the people of Ireland, as it was not commensu-
rate with their wishes.

Mr. W. ROC HE thought that the Bill ought to be post-
poned until next session, in order to give the Government
time to render it more perfect and more conciliatory.
Mr. WALKER did not wish to postpone legislation on the
subject, as he considered the existing law worse than that pro-
posed. He, therefore, wished the Bill to be proceeded with.
Mr. RUTHVEN opposed the Bill. He thought that the
surplus revenue of the Church ought to be kept inviolate for
public purposes, and ought not to be frittered away in any pro-
portion as a bonus to the landlords. He thought the plan pro-
posed by his Hon. and Learned Colleague ought to be adopted,
as it was founded on a principle of fairness and conciliation.
Mr. SHAW said the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin
was wrong in attributing the opposition to tithes to the mea-
sure of tithe composition. The opposition to tithes might, with
more propriety, be attributed to political agitation, which was
at its height in Ireland at the very period when the opposition
to tithes began.—( Hear, hear.) He supported the Bill be-
cause it was at present the same as that which he had formerly
supported, containing the redemption clauses ; but he con-
demned the abandonment of the redemption clauses, which
were abandoned, not because they could not be passed, but
because it would be inconvenient to pass them. He considered
the omission of these clauses a dereliction of principle.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment l4
Against it
Majority

Upon our return to the gallery we found the House in
Committee, and Mr. O'CONNELL on his legs, contending
upon the first clause, that the Government ought to take
upon itself the arrears of tithes due, as well as the accruing
tithes, otherwise the Bill would not effect its object of pro-
moting the peace of the country. What he wanted was to
transfer the arrears of tithes to the same fund which was to
be obliged to pay the amount of accruing tithes. The Hon.
and Learned Member concluded by moving an amendment to
that effect.

Mr. LITTLETON did not think the point of mueh im-
portance, inasmuch as the arrears must be very small. The
principle established last session was, that persons who took
relief on account of the non-payment of any of the tithes of
1831, 1832, or 1833, renounced all claim to such tithes.
Now, the amount_ claims for relief was about 800,0001., so
that the amount orprevious arrears must necessarily be small.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that in every part of Kerry there
was much tithe tuipaid. Besides, had they not had a case in
which three lives were lost in an attempt to recover arrears of
2,000 ? Why not put a stop to this, and save the effusion of
blood ?

Mr. WARBUR.TON observed, that if the arrears were so
small, it would be easiD to provide for them.
Mr. • L ITTL E T OVrrepeated that he did not attach much
importance to the question ; but the object held in view by the
Hon. Member for Dublin might be attained by re-opening the
Act of last session, sos to allow parties again to put in their
'claims, and that he had no objection to do.
After a few observations from Mr. SnAw and Mr. O'Ratuv,
in approval of the suggestion,
Mr. O'CONNELL said he should be happy to agree to it,
and the first clause vas• postponed to give time to amend it
accordingly.
The second clause was agreed to without remark.
On the third clause being moved,

Mr. O'REILLY proposed, as an amendment, that the
tithe, instead of being considered a land-tax, should be con-
verted into a species of compulsory rent-charge.
Lord ALTHORP was opposed to the amendment, as un-
necessary and impracticable, or even if practicable, one which
might be acted on so as to be rendered oppressive in its
operation.
After some further discussion the amendment was negatived.
On the motion of Mr. O'CONNELL, who stated that it
was his intention to take the sense of the Committee on two
parts of the clause, the Chairman reported progress, and
obtained leave to sit again to .morrow.
EXCISE DUTIES.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee on the
Excise Duties Acts,
Lord A LTHOR P moved a series of resolutions em-
bodying the various reductions of duty and charges com-
prehended in his financial statement on Friday, viz., a re-
solution that the duties on starch and 'stone bottles should
cease and determine ; a resolution that the duty on spirits
distilled in Ireland should be reduced one shilling a gallon ;
a resolution that the duties on made wines should be mo-
dified ; a resolution that the duty on spirit licenses should be
increased 50 per cent. ; a resolution that the duty on beer li-
censes, where the beer was consumed on the premises, should
be increased 50 per cent., and where the beer was not drunk
on the premises, that it should be diminished 50 per cent., &c.
Captain GORDON moved, as an amendment, that the re-
so!ution for reducing the duty on spirits distilled in Ireland
should be extended to spirits distilled in Scotland.
Mr. GIL L ON seconded the amendment.
The Committee divided—
For the amendment a. • 9
Against it
Majority
The various resolutions proposed by Lord Althorp were
then agreed to, and the House having resumed, the report was
ordered to be received this day.
Mr. ROTCH was proceeding to bring on his motion with

reference to trades' unions, when an HON. MEMBER rose and
moved that the House be counted.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and it beincl
~ found
there were not forty Members present, the House adjourned
at two o'clock.

IRISH ASSIZE INTELLIGENCE.

KILKENNY, JULY 26.
MURDER OF MR. LEONARD.

All the parties accessory to this atrocious deed, which it
may be recollected was perpetrated in the noon-day, on the
high road between Ross and Waterford, on the Bth of March,
1933, have not yet been brought to justice: Philip Malone
was found guilty at the last Spring Assizes, and executed on
the spet 'where he had been principal in taking away the life
of Mr. Leonard. Robert Malone, his brother, was this day
charged with aiding and assisting in the murder, and found
Guilty on the following evidence.
James Roche remembers the day on which Mr. Leonard
was killed. It was on a Friday, after dinner.—( The country
people in the neighbourhood generally dine between twelve
and one o'clock. Was standing at the Bawn-gate of Ferres-
talstown, where he was at service with .Tony Walsh. Had a
perfect view of the spot where the gig (in which the deceased
was travelling from Waterford to Ross) was. Can't tell how
far from the spot in which he stood.—( It appeared by the map
to be about a quarter of an English mile.) The gig was
" foment " (opposite) Cashen's-lane, on the part of the road
called Shambo-hill. Heard a shot from the place where
they were killing the man. Had seen nothing before he heard
the shot. Then looked in that direction, and saw three men
pelting stones. They were on the side of the gig nearest to
Cashen's house, which was a short distance down the lane.
Saw one of them catching the pony that drew the gig by the
bridle. That man was dressed in a big coat, which appeared
to be dark or black. The other two men had not big coats.
Could not say how long they were pelting. One of them
went away through the grounds of Philip Malone (who was
not connected with the murderers.) The other two went
through Anagh's demesne, one of them having first proceeded
a little way on the road to Ross, and then turned into the
demesne. It was this man that had the big coat. Could not
observe further.
James Cashen, approver, examined—Was living on the Bth
of March, last year, at Shambo, with his mother, two brothers,
four sisters, and three uncles. Lived in a house in the lane
(called by the preceding witness Cashen's-lane.) There is a
gap in the wall of the lane, near the corner, through which a
person might enter ; and another gap near the house. A
furze ditch between the lane and widow Cashen's (his mother)

ground. Knew Philip and Robert Malone, who lived at Kil-
brahan, about a mile and a-half from Shambo. Saw. Philip
Malone about a fortnight before the murder in Patrick Meany's
_ _

stables, in Kibrahan, scarcely a quarter of a mile from Malone's
own house. Agreed to go, in company with others, to murder
Mr. Leonard. On the morning of the murder witness went
_

to John Hogan's house, and also to Mary Water's, for a spade.
On his return home, saw Philip and Robert Malone at the
corner of the lane. Robert Malone had a blue frieze body-coat
on ; Philip a big coat of the same colour. After going about
some business, he came again to the same spot, and found Ro-
bert Malone there alone; asked him what he was waiting for ?
He replied, " Waiting for the landlord." Went down with
him to his mother's barn, where Philip Malone was, who bid
Robert not to come in. Robert returned towards the road,
and witness went into the dwelling-house. Shortly after wit-
ness joined Robert,—and a woman named Jenny Cullen
coming from his mother's house at the time towards the road
where they were, they walked down towards the bridge of
Shambo, Robert observing, that she, the woman, might know
him. Jenny Cullen proceeded towards Ross, and then witness
and Robert Malone returned to the corner of the lane, the
latter observing they could not see the man from the hollow
where the bridge was. Met Catty Forrestal, the reputed
mother of the Malones, who gave Robert an iron-barrelled
pistol from under her cloak ; and then went on to Cashen's.
Saw a gig, and a gentleman in it, coming from Waterford.
Robert Malone first saw it, and pointed it out to him on the
opposite hill. It was Mr. Leonard he heard. Robert then
went through the gap to the inside of the wall. Soon after
this saw Robert and Philip Malone running up the. lane with
pistols in their hands. Philip had the brass-barrelled pistol,
and Robert the iron-barrelled one. Robert stayed inside the
wall, because he said Mr. Leonard knew him; but could see
the road. When Mr. Leonard came up, Philip Malone seized
the pony by the bridle. Mr. Leonard said, "don't harm me,
my man." Philip said he would. Mr. Leonard then made
the sign of the cross on himself. Philip Malone pulled
the trigger, and the pistol burnt prime. Witness told Mr.
Leonard to leap out, or he would be killed. Mr. Leonard began
whipping the pony, which backed towards the wall instead of
going forward; he stood up in the gig. He said, " Don't
Robert, I'll give you a new lease, and forgive Meany's rent."
Robert Malone now leaped out from the lane, in doing which
his pistol went off ; he came on the road and handed the pistol
to witness. He then placed two stones to the wheels of the
gig, and taking up other stones struck Mr. Leonard on the
right arm, and on the side of the head ; the head hung down
to one side. The wheels of the gig missed the stones that had
been placed behind them, and it ran back against the wall,
which was a low one. Both the Malones then got on the
wall, and began pounding Mr. Leonard with stones, who did
,- not stiuggle after the first blow on the head. Robert then
said, " Blood and ounds! the Peelers will be here, run away."
Witness went to his people's house ; Robert Malone went
towards Ross, and Philip inside the wall ; but in about a quarter
of an hour they came into the barn. Witness hid the pistols.
His uncles were not at home that day; does not know where
they were. Mary Malone, who had been sent with the rent,
brought word from Ross that Mr. Leonard was to come home
that day. Catty Forrestal told witness to come that night for
the watch he had been promised. Did go, and saw the
Malone's at Pat Meany's stables, who asked " was he killed 9"
but refused to give witness the watch because he did not help.
The watch belonged to a Philip Malone, deceased.
Two other witnesses corroborated a great part of the preced-
ing evidence, but did not identify the prisoner.
Richard Cashen, brother of the approver, after deposing to
several particulars, some of which have been already stated,
said he saw both the Malones on the day of the murder, at the
corner of the lane. Philip said, "this would be a good place,
I'll do it here." Robert said " I won't do it." Heard from
Philip they intended doing something. Catty Forrestal was
in mother's house about dinner time. Saw the body after
death from his mothers yard-gate, in the gig. The cape of
deceased's coat was flying with the wind. This witness in his
cross-examination said, that while in Kilkenny gaol, soon after
the murder, he crossed two walls, and gained admission five
times to a yard from which he could have conversation with his
brother James, and that in their conversations he begged him
to turn approver. _

1 1
The approver, James, being recalled, denied this.
Several respectable witnesses were then called, who stated
it to be impossible for Richard Cashen to cross the wall as
often, and in the manner he alleged; though the gaoler ad-
mitted he heard he once attempted some communication with
James, which led to a stricter watch and guard on the parties.
,BArtozi FOSTER, in summing up the evidence, left it to the
Jury to decide whether or not the approver's evidence had been
corroborated in the essential points, by that of his brother
Richard, who alone supported him as to the identity of the
prisoner, with. one of the men that had been seen committing
the murder. He observed, that if they believed Richard in
all the particulars he swore to, they should disbelieve James,
and consequently could not find the prisoner guilty. If, how-
ever, under all the circumstances, and from the weight of other
testimony, they should think the prisoner guilty, it was his
duty to require from them whether they believed the testimony
of James or Richard Cashel'.
After a short deliberation the Jury returned a verdict of
Guilty ,• and added, that they believed the facts stated by
James Cashen to be true.
The Learned JUDGE then pronounced sentence of death and
execution on Monday next ; observing, that though he had
felt it his duty to put the case to the Jury in such a manner as
to give the prisoner the benefit of any point of law that might
arise out of the discrepancy of the evidence of the two Cashens,
still he was perfectly satisfied with the verdict, and had not a
doubt on his mind of the guilt of the unhappy culprit, who:.l
he exhorted to atone for his crimes during the short time he
had to repent in this life, and pray for mercy in the next.
Patrick Meany is to be tried on Monday, for a conspiracy to
effect the murder of Mr. Leonard.

Friday next being the day when the Act for Negro
Emancipation comes into operation, we are happy to find that
the clergy have resolved to commemorate the same by a ser-
vice at the National School, similar to that which is adopted
every Monday night. but expressly bearing upon the subject of
the day. We hope that our readers will avail themselves of
this opportunity of testifying their gratitude to Almighty God
for having delivered this country from the continuance of a
sin which has been so long its reproach.—Sheftield Mercury.
ASTONISHING SAGACITY IN A DOG.--A woman
residing in the neighbourhood of Melrose, the wife of an in-
dustrious and respectable labourer, has for a considerable time
been subject to epileptic attacks, which come on generally in
the course of the day. She has no servant, and her children
are too young to render her any assistance during the pa-
roxysms. The want of an attendant is, however, in some mea-
sure supplied, in the absence of her husband, by a faithful and
sagacious collie dog, which no sooner perceives his mistress
endeavouring with difficulty to reach her bed than he runs
howling for her husband, and continues barking and howling
until he has found him, and he returns with him to the house,
the faithful dog leading the way, and appearing delighted to
see his master coming to his wife's assistance. Upon no oc-
casion has this dog been known to neglect his duty when his
mistress is taken ill, and at whatever distance from home his
master may happen to be at work, he does not cease running
with all his speed, howling all the time in the most pitiful
manner, until he has been able to find him.—Aberdeen Herald.
SLAVE TRADE IN AMERICA, FRANCE, &c.—
" In 1807, the foreign slave trade was abolished throughout
the United States, by the Act of Congress ; a revolting in-
ternal slave trade still, however, exists in the Southern States,
and nearly 2,000,000 of wretched beings are there in bond-
age. Mexico abolished the slave trade in 1824, and Buenos
Ayres,
Chili, and Columbia since the treaty of Vienna. The
Conventional Assembly of France, in 1794, abolished slavery,
but the act became void. Buonaparte, on his return from
Elba in 1815, again decreed its abolition but the Bourbons had
neither the wisdom, humanity, nor gratitude, to carry his de-
cree iilto execution. England has paid nearly half a million
..of.rintf/y.to Spain and Portugal, for the suppression of the
4, ', slave tfadstbii) without a final effect. Now is the moment to
. ./.--/enforTe it and* invite the co-operation of
lFrance,,and the
,:r/V:. nited . tat Spr the abolition of internal s avery. —From
"I,tl' meg* omery,JActin's History of the British Colonies,
,ly
- .14 .117#.1;taiesrl
(4,
~.......-, , ....,1
'r,i' ZNAy
4,„<1 -,_;:4_,i,....".. Vol.
4044-1). '''",•-*.!.
mit-Oe

LONDON,
WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 30, 1834

The long discussion on the third reading of the
Coercion Bill in the Lords last evening, threw no new
light on the transactions which led to the resignation
of Earl GREY, or the causes of those modifications
which the Bill has now undergone. Indeed all the
circumstances have been already so fully explained,
that nothing •was wanting to satisfy the public
mind. The old story of Earl GREY having fallen
a sacrifice to his principles through the intrigues
of some of his colleagues, was, as it had been on
other nights, repeated again and again by several
Peers, but we doubt much if even tliose who make
such an assertion attach much credit to it. It is a
well known fact that many of the members of the
existing Government regarded that Nobleman as the
(Treat bond of their union, and from his high character
for consistency, as well as his predilections in favour of
the Upper House, and his somewhat aristocratical
notions in reference to the institutions of the country,
they considered him the best calculated to carry
any great measure through the Lords. It is also
well known, that even since the conclusion of
the first session of the Reformed Parliament he had
been anxious to retire from public life, and had been
prevented only by the earnest entreaties of the most
influential of his colleagues. Within the last twelve-
months he had made no less than six attempts to re-
sign, yet had been induced to forego his own deter-
mination by those very men who are now accused of
having conspired to drive him from office. Con-
sidering the character of the men, and the declared
wishes of the late Premier-himself, there never perhaps
was any change made on slighter grounds, or less cre-
dited by the community. Not only the ostensible, but
the real cause of his retirement from public life, was
the resignation of Lord ALTHORP, and after that
Noble Lord's repeated declarations on the fatigues of
office, and his desire also to retire, and considering his well
known character for truth and upright dealing—to sup-
pose that he would conspire to betray his friend, is per-
haps of all suppositions the most preposterous and absurd.
It will not indeed bear a moment's consideration. Some
blame was attached to the Government for not renew-
ing the three clauses against public meetings ; but
that blame had become much modified since the last
discussion on the subject. Those Noble Peers even
who blame the Government know perfectly well that,
after the, secrets of the Cabinet became known, it
was utterly impossible to carry the entire Bill through
the House of Commons—even that House which
the Duke of WELLINGTON described as pla-
cing more confidence in the Government
than had been placed by any House of Commons in
any former Administration. It is not a little curious
to observe how vast truths are sometimes disclosed by
casual and inadvertent observations. The Duke suf-
ficiently explained the backwardness of the Tories to
return to power ; for, according to his own admis-
sion, it is quite evident that such a House under
a Tory Government would be totally unmanageable.

Such an admission will not be without its effects on
the country. It wig convince the less reflecting, who
are generally the most virulent of the party, that vio-
lent opposition is of no avail, and that their only hope
of return to power must be derived frOm the adoption
of political principles in unison with the feelings
of the representatives of the people. Indeed from
the tone of the House last night some such im-
pression appeared to prevail, and we therefore confidently
anticipate that the more prudent of the party at least,
in place of factious opposition, will do their utmost to
strengthen the hands of Government in opposing any
attempts to dismember the empire, or carry into effect
principles which would lead to the subversion of the
constitution.

The Bill was read a third time, and passed without
a division. The further consideration of the Poor
Laws Amendment Bill was postponed till to-morrow,
when in all probability the remaining clauses will pass
through Committee without any material alteration.

The debate which took place in the House of
Commons, last night, on the order of the day being
moved for the committal of the Irish Tithes Bill, /is
worthy of especial notice, in consequence of a passing
observation which fell from Mr. LITTLETON, and
which was repeated in nearly the same words by Lord
ALTHORP. In answering the objections made by
the Member for Dublin, to the passing a Bill of such
importance without first waiting for the report of
the
Irish Church Commissioners ; the Secretary for Ireland
emphatically observed,—that a further delay would de-
stroy:the property of tithes altogether, so that it would be
found impossible to collect them for any purpose : and
SO entirely did the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
concur in this opinion, that he re-asserted it, as his
conviction on the subject; Now, if such be the con-
viction of the Noble Lord and Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the delay of a single day, nay of an hour, in
the passing of this Bill, is of the greatest moment.
Tithes, though lost to the church after the bye-gone
fashion, must not be lost to the country. They belong
not to individuals, but to the State ; and in order to
effect their just arid legitimate appropriation, the State
must take care that they pass not into the pockets of
interested parties. Tithes do not belong to the land-
lords,—and just as little do they belong to the tenantry
who resist the payment of them. They are public pro-
perty, set apart for the moral and religious instruction
of the people ; and though the Roman Catholics and
Presbyterians of Ireland may object to their being ex-
clusively devoted to the maintenance of the Hierarchy
of the Established Church, in a country where only
one-fourteenth, or less, of the population is Protes-
tant, still have they no right whatever to withhold any
sum which they individually contribute. Tithes be-
long to the State—the State handed them over to the
Established Church ; and though this was both im-
politic and unjust towards the professors of other
Christian creeds, yet have the people no better grOund
for resisting their payment, than would a person to
discharge a just debt, because his creditor was a spend-
thrift.

But now that the Government has wisely resolved,
upon reforming the abuses of the Irish Church, we
think it more than ever incumbent on them to preserve
tithe property, as a fund which will enable them to
effect the moral regeneration of the people. To effect
this, in the least possible time, a large portion of the
tithe property must be devoted to the establishment
and maintenance of public schools, under the auspices
of the Board of Education, established in Dublin, under
Mr. STANLEY'S Bill. The Catholic priests too must be
provided for, if the Government would effect a per-
manent tranquillization of Ireland. There never will
be lasting peace in that country as long as this large
body of ecclesiastics is left to depend for support on
the exercise of an influence over the minds of the
people, which is as powerful for evil as it is for good.
Zealots may exclaim against this as an encouragement
of Popery, superstition, and idolatry ; but all wise men
know that in the end it must come to this, unless we
are prepared to hand over Ireland to total de-
struction. And when all this is accomplished,
we do not expect to hear of the retrograde of
Protestantism ; because we never thought so de-
gradingly of religion, as to suppose its empire
could be either established or shaken by wealth ob-
tained unrighteously. One of the strongest proofs
which the Church adduces of the truth of Christianity,
is the fact of its dissemination over the whole earth,
despite of persecution under every shape, and in oppo-
sition to the decrees of the most powerful Monarchs
that ever reigned ; and yet those who tell us that the
abstraction of any part of the tithes now claimed by
the Established Church would overthrow Protestantism
in Ireland, either deny this altogether, or tacitly ac-
knowledge (which we do not) that religion is not now
as much under the protection of Heaven as it was in
the days of the Apostles.
We are not surprised that Mr. O'Co NN ELL should
call upon the Government to raise a loan by Exche-
quer Bills, to be charged upon the tithe property in
Ireland, for the immediate relief of the Clergy, if he,
too, anticipated that by gaining time he should be able
to destroy such property altogether. Some scheme of
this kind must have been among the motives which
induced him to pray for the repetition of an experi-
ment this year, which, when last year brought before
Parliament, he designated one of the most miserable
deceptions ever practised upon the country. But the
shiftings of the Honourable Gentleman are so well
understood—the wild way in which he allows his
feelings to hurry him along without once consulting
his judgment is so often evident—the continual sacri-
fices which he makes of principle to a momentary im-
pulse, are so frequently exhibited—that both his support
and opposition are beginning Co be looked upon as
implying no more than an ebullition of feeling, a grasp-
ing for rent, or a desire of obtaining the necessary
aliment of the mind provided by mob popularity, and
platform applause. Even the " tail" has deserted him ;
for, on the division to which he "pressed the House
last night, against going into Committee on this Bill,
only fourteen voted for his amendment !
We repeat, the tithe is not the property of the
parsons, but of the State ; and therefore it is the
bounden duty of the Ministry to preserve it, by every
means in their power. Unless care be taken, Whigs
and Tories will find themselves, at the end of the pre-
sent struggle, in the situation of the lions in the fable,
who so gored each other for the sole possession of a
carcase, that a fox robbed them both of the spoil for
which they were contending, without their being able
to resist him.

The French Papers continue to be miserably desti-
tute of intelligence. Those which we have just
received contain nothing but repetitions of rumours so
stale, that they have had them returned once already

from us at least a week since. There is very little
preparation going on in Paris for the celebration of
the " three days," either by the Citizen King, or his
subjects, save that, in anticipation of unforeseen evil,
troops have been moving towards the capital for
several days past. It is expected that the fête will
pass over without anv marked demonstration of
feeling, inasmuch as the people are beginning to faTrey
that the " three days" affair left them in pretty nearly
the same situation as that in which it found them—at
least a great number of them see no cause for any
extraordinary rejoicing.
The affairs of Spain are going on prosperously. Madrid
is peaceable ; and up to the 23d, no doubt was enter-
tained of the sitting of the Cortes. The accounts
which we have received this morning state that the
cholera is abating much of its violence, and that its
disappearance is very soon expected. There is a
strange rumour in Spain, that Don CARLOS is not in
that country at all, and this is greatly strengthened by
no person being able to assert that he was publicly
seen anywhere. We have not learned how this re-
port was conveyed to the Usurper's troops, but four
soldiers, under the command of ZUMALACARREGUY,
having expressed themselves satisfied of its truth, were
publicly shot by the command of that officer.
We learn, from the telegraphic despatches from
Bayonne, that General RoDIL was at Estella on the
20th, preparing for action, as he hourly expected
to fall in with Don CARLOS'S troops. A decree in
the name of the Usurper, bearing date the 18th inst.,
appeared in the Gazette, announcing the blockade
of those places in Navarre in possession of the
QUEEN'S subjects. The whole bubble may be ex;
pected to burst very shortly.
We have no "funds to-day. Monday was a holiday
in Paris, consequently no business was transacted on
the Bourse.

In another column will be found a resolution from
the parish of St. Luke, Chelsea, on the subject of
the county rate. In answer to two correspondents,
we beg to state that we have correctly quoted the Act,
which is 3d Geo. IV., cap. 107, entituled " An Act
for regulating the office of Treasurer, and altering and
amending the Acts now in force, for assessing, collect-
ing, and levying of county rates, so far as the same
relate to the county of Middlesex." The Act is
dated 22d July, 1822.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

THIS DAY, WEDNESDAY, JULY 30.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at a quarter-past twelve.
The amendment to the Bermondsey Imprisonment Bill was
read a second time.

Mr. MOST YN presented a petition from St. George's pa-
rish, in the county of Denbigh, in support of the Established
Church.

COMMISSIONERS OF CUSTOMS.
Mr. PATRICK STEWART presented a petition, of
which he had given notice, from certain Commissioners of
Customs, relative to the reductions of their salaries. The
Hon. Member stated, that by a Treasury minute of the Ist of
April, 1831, certain reductions were made, by which the ex-
penditure of the Custom-house was reduced 31,500/. per
annum.—(Hear, hear.) These reductions were originally
made immediate as regarded all the persons officially
connected with the customs ; but by a second Treasury minute
of February, 1833, the reductions 'were made prospective,
with the exception of the petitioners, against whom its effect
was immediate. All he (Mr. Stewart) asked was, that these
petitioners should be placed upon the same footing as the other
persons connected with the department. The only saving to
the public was 1,2001. a year, and he trusted that the House
would not, for so paltry a saving, ti eat the petitioners with
what must be considered a species of injustice. He would
leave the matter in the hands of the Noble Lord and the House.

Lord ALTHORP felt it his duty to defend - himself
from the charge that had been made against him of
having treated the petitioners with unfairness.—( Hear,)
According to the pledge which he (Lord A.) had given when
he had accepted office, he had endeavoured to reduce the ex-
penditure as much as possible. When he had come into office
the salaries of the Commissioners of Customs and Excise
were 1,400/. per annum, and he had thought that 1,200/.
would be quite a sufficient remuneration for the duties they
had to perform. In that view his Right Hon. Predecessor
had concurred. The only question was, whether these re-
ductions should be prospective, thereby putting off the relief
to the country for an indefinite period, or whether the
principle should not be applied immediately-4 Hear,
hear.) It had been originally applied to the whole of
the department immediately, but in consequence of
representations that had been made to him, that it would not
be advisable to excite.dissatisfaction in those who were engaged
in collecting the revenue of the country, by any immediate re-
duction in their salaries, he had been induced to make it pros-
pective as regarded these individuals. If the petitioners did
not like to accept of the reduced salary, they could have re-
tired, as others did, upon a superannuated pension. • It was
impossible to say that 1,200/. a-year was not a sufficient remu-
neration for the duties to be performed. If the House thought
the salaries ought to be increased, he would submit to its de-
cision ; but if he was left to the exercise of his own judgment,
he certainly should not do so.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir ROBERT INGLIS thought the petition should not
have been presented to the House, but to the head of the
department. He would not, however, agree with the doc-
trine of the Noble Lord that the salaries of the public officers
should be put up to the lowest tender. He thought that such
republican doctrines should not be countenanced by that
House.—( Hear, hear.) These persons had accepted office,
and made their domestic arrangements on the faith of receiving
a salary of 1,400/. a year, and he thought it was treating them
with great unfairness to take off one seventh of their salaries,
without any charge having been brought against them, and
when, in fact, as had been stated, their duties had been con-
siderably increased.—( Hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON thought that a salary of 1,200/. per
annum was quite sufficient for the duties they had to perform.
They had accepted office, it was true, on the faith of an ar-
rangement entered into by the Government for the payment of
a certain. salary ; but if the country and the Government
thought that the emoluments were too great, it was undoubt-
edly their right to make whatever reductions they thought

Sir HENRY WILLOUGHBY said whatever his notions
of economy were, he thought in the present case no reduc-
tions should have been made in the salaries of those persons.
Sir CHARLES BURRELL said the House should take
into account the great difference in the value of money now
and some years ago. The individuals at present holding these
offices were better off with a salary of 1,2001. a year than
those who formerly enjoyed salaries of 1,8001. a-year.—( Hear.)
He did not therefore think that all this tenderness should be
evinced towards those individuals.

Mr. RIDLE Y COLBOURNE thought that as the duties
of the office had been increased, the petitioners should seek for
an increase of salary instead of having their salaries reduced.
He had given too many economical votes in that House to fear
any unpopularity that he might incur by advocating the claims
of those persons who in his opinion had been treated with some
degree of hardship.
Mr. F. BARING was surprised at the sympathy which the
case of the petitioners excited, when not a word had been said
of the reductions that had taken place in the wages of the
workmen in the dock-yards, who had been deprived of their
chip-money, or of the many reductions that had taken plaee
in other quarters. He thought the Government was perfectly
justified in the reductions that had been made.---( Hear.)
111 r. G 0 ULB URN thought it very objectionable that any
persons holding office under the Crown should make applica-
tion to Parliament for increase of salary ; but under the cir-
cumstances of the present case, he thought the petitions were
justifiable, as their labours had been greatly increased by the
diminution of the number of Commissioners.
Mr. DENISON ( Surrey) supported the prayer of the
petition. It was most unjust to increase the labours of those
Commissioners, and at the same time to diminish their
salaries.

Mr. HUME said that the question, as he understood it,
struck at all reductions. Was the House of Commons to judge
what salaries were to be given to the Commissioners ? He
could not conceive any thing more mischievous than allowing
the interposition of that House in questions of this sort. He
recollected that on former occasions, when the late Mr. Can-
ning objected to certain reductions of salaries, he (Mr.
Hume) opposed him. But it was to the principle of the
present case that he wished to call the attention of the
House. He contended that the same principle ought to be
applied to the reduction of the salaries of the higher and the
lower servants of the public. He did not see why any dif-
ference should be made between those who received 3s. or 75.,
a day, and those who received as many pounds. It was most
unjust that reductions should be made in the pay of labourers and
inferior officers, when no reductions were made in the salaries of
the higher classes. He had complained of this to the House, and
the House seemed to go with him upon the subject. Would
the House then listen to the application of these gentlemen,
for whom, considering all they had to ,do, 1,2001. a year was
amply sufficient.
Mr. A. BARING said that he hipped the Hon. Member
for Middlesex would recollect the principle he laid down, that
applications to this House for money were not the proper aifd
constitutional mode of proceeding, and were calculated to

produce mischief. The Honourable Member (Mr. Hume)
was rather forgetful of this principle when he brought
in motions for grants of money. In his (Mr. Baring's) opi-
nion, these petitioners had been harshly dealt with. When
2001. a year was taken from an income of 1,2001., it ivas very
likely to put the parties into a situation of personal distress.
He did not know that that would be the case in the present
instance, but, generally speaking, such a proceeding was likely
to involve the parties thus losing part of their income in per-
sonal distress.

Mr. HUME said the Hon. Member had thought proper
to throw out insinuations against himl; certainly it was not
unusal with him ; but he (Mr. H.) would rather that every
one acted as he did, and would make a regular charge.
Mr. BARING said he alluded to the case of Mr. Marshall.
Mr. HUME, with that case I had nothing to do farther
than being one of the Committe, who agreed in the propriety
of the grant. That case, however, was a very different one
from the present one, because Mr. Marshall was not a public
servant.

Mr. P. M. STEWART said that in taking up the petition
he had done only what he considered his duty. He was not
then aware of the informality of its being presented, but as he
had heard of it from all circles, he would, with their leave,
withdraw it, in the hope that the Noble Lord ( Althorp)
would give the subject some further serious consideration.—
( Hear, hear.)
Mr. M, ATTWOOD said if that House was to be made a
court of appeal upon such questions, it would be impossible
for the Government to carry any reduction into effect.—
(Loud cheering.) He thought Lord Althorp was perfectly
earnest in his remark, that the gentlemen in question were
better off with the 1,2001. a year than they were a few years
ago with 1,4001.
After a few words from Sir E. CODRINGTON and Lord SAN-
DON, the petition was withdrawn.

Mr. GILL ON presented a petition from Montrose, com-
plaining of the pressure of the Annuity Tax, and praying for
its repeal. "The petition was mostly signed by churchmen,
upon whom the tax was a grievance, then how must
the Dissenters feel it ?—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
understood that it was in contemplation to relieve Edinburgh
and Montrose from that tax (they were the only two places
in which it was levied), and charge it upon the Con-
solidated Fund, in other words, relieve those two towns
at the expense of the country. Anxious as he was to do
away with the tax, he would most strenuously oppose that
project whenever it was brought forward.
Mr. II UME supported the petition, but neither could he
agree with the charge being thrown upon the Consolidated
Fund.

Mr. ABE RCROMBY said that the cases of Montrose and
Edinburgh were peculiar to themselves, and it was there-
fore a great grievance to those towns to be subject
to a tax from which the rest of the kingdom was
exempt; a tax which was in a great measure injuriousto the
Church itself. If he could suggest any resource in Scotland
to obviate this grievance, be should expect the aid of the Go-
vernment to carry it into effect. Any practical plan for the
redress of this grievance would have his cordial support.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he fully concurred
in all the sentiments expressed by his Right Hon. Colleague.
He lamented the existence of the imposition, and should be
glad to find a substitute.
After a few words from Mr. SINCLAIR, the petition was
laid on the table.

Sir C. BURRELL presented a petition from an individual
of the name of Bannister, late Attorney- General of New South
Wales, praying the House to present an address to his Majesty
to direct the Privy Council to inquire into his case.
Mr. S. RICE said that this matter had been already inquired
into, and it turned out that this gentleman had resigned his office,
the gravamen of the charge made by the petitioner being that
after his resignation another gentleman was appointed with an
increased salary. This surely was not a question requiring
further investigation.—The petition was laid on the table.
Mr. ESTCOURT presented several petitions in support of
the Church from parishes in Oxfordshire.
Sir R. ING L I S presented several petitions to the same effect.
It being Three o'Clock the SPEAKER left the Chair.

COURT OF CHANCERY.-(THIS DAY.)

WHARTON V. LORD DURHAM.

Mr. STEPHENSON, the junior Counsel for the defendant, and
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN in reply, were heard this morning.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, at the conclusion of the argument,
stated that he should not give judgment in the case for a
week, but that he would endeavour to dispose of it before the
Court rose for the long vacation.
His Lordship rose at twelve o'clock, for the purpose of
going to the House of Lords.

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE.-(THIS DAY.)

(FROM LLOYD'S.)

DEAL, JULY 29.—Wind N. E., light breezes.—Arrived
from the river and sailed, the Asia, Biddle, for Calcutta;
the Avouca, Boadle, from Liverpool ; the Spence Barque,
from Berbice, passed by the Drie Gebroeders, Keryl, for Ba.
tavia, and the Neptunus, Aalborg, for Jersey.
PORTSMOUTH, JULY 29.—Wind E. S. E. to W. N. W.---
His Majesty's ship Sapphire, from Havanna, has come into
harbour.

CORK, JULY 27.—Sailed the Blenheim, Brown, for New
South Wales. Arrived the T. S. Reeves, Bailey, from Lon-
don; the Eliza Ann, Hyde from St. Andrews, N. B. ; and
the Penelope, Edwards, from Quebec.

PLYMOUTH, JULY 28.—Wind E., strong.—Arrived the
Union, Penny, from Newfoundland ; the Eliza Russell, from
St. Petersburg • the Venus, Steinorth, from, Dantzic ; and
his Majesty's ship North Star, from Portsmouth, for Rio and
Buenos Ayres. _

DARTMOUTH, JULY 28.—Arrived the Dolphin, Kraeft, from
Memel.

FALMOUTH, JULY 28.—Wind E., breezes squally.—Arrived
the Bolivar, Richards, from Quebec ; the Branch, Milne,
from Riga. The Margaret, Shankland, from Dublin, was
towed in with loss of fore and mizen masts, &c., bound to Riga.
Off port the Elizabeth, Broderson, from Havanna.
LIVERPOOL, JULY 28.—Arrived off port the Maria, from St.
John's, New Brunswick, and the Commerce, from St. Peters-
burg.
DUBLIN, JULY 27.—Arrived, Bell, Chalmers, from Quebec ;
and Britannia, Aspill, Archangel.
NEWRY, JULY 27.—Arrived, Malvina, Crocket, from Quebec.
LIMERICK, JULY 27.—Arrived, Home, Crowell, from Que-
bec. The Sally, from Liverpool, in coming up the River,
grounded near Grass Island, but is reported to be got off.

The Jean Stewart, Goodlett, from Liverpool to St.
Thomas's, was wrecked off' Barbuda, previous to the 23rd ult.
His Majesty's ship North Star, Captain Vernon Harcourt,
bound to the South American station, put into Plymouth on
Monday. She has on board, Hamilton Hamilton, Esq., Charge
d'Affaires to the State of Buenos Ayres; and Mr. Scarlett, as
attachi to the Embassy at the Brazils.

The Sicilian, Miller, from Newcastle, for London, struck on
the Cross Sand on Monday night—crew saved.

THE FUNDS._-(THIS DAY.)

CITY, TWELVE O'CLOCK
Consols which left off yesterday at 914 opened at the same
price this morning, and continues steady at the above price,
with little doing. Portuguese Stock 84 to ; Spanish
45 to -I.

gome- suspense is manifested by the speculators in the
Spanish Stock, in consequence of not having, received, by the
express from Paris, the meeting of the Cortes ; indeed we
might have had it in the course of yesterday, by the tele-
graph, from Bayonne, as it only required three days, or three
days and a half, to come from Madrid to Bayonne, by a
courier. At all events, before a few hours pass, we have no
doubt but we shall be informed on the subject.

HALF-PAST ONE.
Some anxiety prevails to ascertain if the Cortes has met.
Report states, that it has been adjourned ; but up to the pre-
sent hour we have nothing official on the subject, although it
might have been known ere this.
Consols continue steady at 91+ for the Account, with little
doing. _ _

Spanish may be quoted 44 to 1; Portuguese, 86i
No fresh arrivals as yet.
THREE O'CLOCK

Consols for the Account, 911.

" The Life of a Soldier," just published, is another
of those amusing works with which it has of late become -so
common for our veterans to amuse their countrymen, and dis-
sipate the ennui of a retired life. It has the merit of extra-
ordinary variety, in both scenery and adventure. Ireland, the
West Indies, the Peninsula from Cadiz to the Pyrenees,
Waterloo, France, the Channel Islands, Malta and COrfu, are
successively the scenes of his narrative.—United Service
Gazette.

LIVERPOOL COTTON MARKET, JULY 28.
A steady demand has been experienced for Cotton to-day at
last week's prices, and about 2,500 bales sold—viz., 250 Per-
cams, l lid. to 114 d. ; 150 Bahias, 10d. to load. ; 100 Sea
Islands, 15id. to 18}d.; 300 Orleans, old. to iod.; remainder
Boweds, 8. to old.
VORACITY OF RATS.—The following remarkable
instance of the voracity of the grey or Norwegian rat now
unfortunately too common in this country has just occurred.
A larmer in the vicinity of Banff, on going round to look at
his pigs, found the young of a sow, which had recently littered,
with their throats gnawed through and their bodies partly
eaten, and some of them dragged into the holes of the rats,
nearly a dozen of which ferocious animals were busily engaged
in devouring the tender progeny of the stye !—Aberdeen
Herald.

THE NOVEL OF THE SEASON.--" Ayesha, the
Maid of Kars," by that delightful painter of Eastern scenery
and manners, Mr. Morier, has already become a greater
favourite than its predecessor " Zohrab."—" The scene," ob-
serves the Spectator, "is laid in various-places—the country
between the Turkish, Persian, and Russian frontiers, the
Black Sea, Constantinople, Rhodes, and even London. A
more exciting love story—one more fraught with difficulties,
dangers, and escapes, it has rarely, if ever, been our good for-
tune to meet with."

TICKLING A CROCODILE.-“ The Indians, it is
said, are very expert in catching the cayman :—A man dives
down upon the crocodile's back, while asleep, and fastens a
rope round its body ; he then strides across it, and, making, a
signal to his companions on the river's bank, thef are pulled
towards the surface of the water together. By tickling it
under the axilla with a stick, the monster, it is stated, be-
comes perfectly manageable, and is hauled to the beach, where
the rider's comrades despatch him with iron-shod clubs."--
Front Montgomery Martin's History of the British Colonies,
Vol. IL, West Indies.