The Sun.
London, England, 1851-05-20 00:00:00

TnE SUN,

Mr. MOIRE observed, the th 7 Hon. and L-arned
Member for Si-1,111,11 had not been pry sent nuther 'he
evening. The Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone
had never put his amendment. There had been nothing
but a desult,ry conversation.—(oh, and a laugh.) The
expression was not hi=, hut had been applied tbroughoui
the evening. That &suitor; conversation was rinsed On
the statement of the Att,rney-General. The opponents
of the Bill had never raised a di,culsion on the question
that the preamble be postp ,ned; he repeated that the
Hon. and Learned Member for Athlone had not raised
the pestion.
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY thought it
would bee allowed that to the last moment they had dis-
cussed the postponement of the preamble; and the Hon.
Member for Dublin had moved that the Cnairtuan
should rep in progress. He (the Earl of Arundel and
Surrey) hoped the Hon. Member would withdraw that
motion.—(Hear, hear.) If they divided on the post-
ponement of the preamble, which-did not affect any part
of the Bill, he trusted the Goverutnent would not press
the Committee to proc.ed further to-night.
Mr. P. LIOW ARD begg...d to add his testimony to
that or the Noble Lird.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. REYNOLDS stated that none of the appeals
which had been male convinced lain ho was wrung in
taking a divi:don.
The Committee then divided. The numbers were—
For reporting progress 30
Against it ... 271
M jJrity —241
The Corwaittee then divided on the question that the
preamble be postponed, when there appeared—
For postponing the preamble ... 253
Against it
Majority —213

On entering -the 'gallery, we found
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY expressing a
hope that the Government would not press ,he House
to a consideration of the cieuses of the Bill that night.
He trusted they would allow the Chairman to report
progress, and obtain leave to sit again; aed, if no one
else did so, he would make a motion to that effect.
Sir G. GREY said, the greater part of the Bill turned
upon the first clause, and it was itrportantehat as soon
us passible they should proceed to the censicl:3retion of
e nightit. At that hour of the (20 twelves a.treir I I) it
was not unusual to enter upon busrnt ss of a simitarkind,
and he therefore thought they should proceed
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL appealed to her Majesty's
Ministers whether they could ask the House seriously
to go on with the clauses that night.
Mr. REYNOLDS said, it occurred to him that both
the Nobie Lord the Member for Arundel and the lion.
Member for Kerry had claims upon the Government,
for neither of them had voted against Government on
the division before the last. They went to the
library.—(A laugh.) He should be glai to know what
they gained by going to the library? He did not thine
they were likely to get much information. nor had
much courtesy been extended to them now.—(Elear.)
hear.) What did the 12 or 13 Members who were op-
posed to the Bill, and who went to the library, gain by
going there ? He male these remarks in order that a
few who oppot:ed this Bill of pains and penalties might
see the necessity of standing together.—(Hear, hear.)
They gained nothing by political gentility; they
gained nothing by bowing and scraping to the Trea-
sury benches.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Mem-
ber fit Sheffi -lii had appealed to him not to press his
motion for the Ch airman reporting progress, but he
could not, as a Catholic Member, acquiesce in that
view. He should like to knew what the Honourable
Member for Sheffield had gained by the course he had
taken ? Why, the Right H itiourable Gentleman (Sir
George Grey) refu•ed to postpone the consideration of
tee measure till another day. He gave the Government
notice, however, that, without pursuing any course
that could be called factious—(A laugh)—there was a
sufficient number of honest men in the minority to pre-
vent their passing a single clause that eight—(Hear,
hear)—no matter how many divisions might be necessary
for that purpose.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, the Hon. Gentleman had asked
what he gained by doing what was right?—(Hear, hear.)
He would reply that he believed a large majority of the
people of both countries would acknowledge that they
were honestly opposing this Bill when they acted on the
principle of the Constitution as embodied in the rules
and laws laid down by Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) Any
attempt to render those rules mischievous must tend to
injure the great cause of censt tutional government.—
(Hear, hear.) He d,d cot mean to express the slightest
disrespect fur the strung feeling of Irish Members on
this question; but they would do well to consider the
strong feelings of English Members, who had fought the
great battle of constitutional government in that House
before there were any Catholic Members from Ireland
connected with it.—(Hear, hear.) He recollected well
that Mr. O'Connell never acted in the way now pro•
posed; and, though in 1833 and at other times he was
nominally beaten in that House, his victory over
the Treasury Bench was nevertheless most significant
and striking.—(Hear, hear.) He must say, hOwever,
to the Government that there was good reason for post-
poning the clauses of the Bill. The alterations had
been made suddenly, and it was but fair that time
ehouid be given to consider fully the bearings of the
measure. lie hoped the Government would give the Irish
Members no reason to say that they were opposed by a
tyrant majority, but that they would afford them at least
twelve hours to consider the clauses so suddenly intro-
duced into the measure.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS said, reterence had been made to a
tyrant majority, but he would ask the Rouse whether
they could not conceive such a combination as would
justify the appellation of a tyrant minority ?—(Hear.)
Repeated divisiuue had been taken—in one instance he
believed the majority was nine to one—and he must say
that, in such circumstances, it might be the duty of the
Goveremtrit to protect the House against a tyrant
minority.—(Hear.)
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY expressed hie
extreme regret that any Catholic Member should have
said one word against any Protestant Member who sup-
ported their cause in that House, still more against one
who had supported it with so much ability, zeal, and dis-
cretion as the Hon. and Learned Member for Sheffieid
had done. He trusted the Government would yield to
the appeal which that lion. and Learcel Gentleman had
made to them.

Sir F. THESIGER hoped the Government would ac-
cede to the application. It was important that they
should do so. Government had adopted the amend-
ment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Midhurst,
making a declaratory enactment in the Bill applying
merely to the rescript of the Pope of the 29th Septem-
ber, 1850: the Solicitor-General had said, in answer to
Mr. Gladstone, although that declaratory enactment
applied solely to England, that it would have such an
effect upon the law that the judges in Ireland would
feel themselves bound by it, and would consider any
similar brief in Ireland to be illegal and void. He (Sir
F. Thesiger) assumed from that statement that it was
the intention of the Government that any similar brief
in Ireland should be deemed illegal and void. If so, it
would be b=tter that that intention should be declared on
the face of the Bill. It had therefore occurred to him
desirable to introduce MI amendment into the first
clause, to make it apply not merely to the particular
brief to which it was at present directed, but to all
similar bri,fs and rt scripts both in England and I, eland.
It would be impossible to enter into the consideration of
that amendment at the pr,sert He therefore
hoped the Government would accede to the appeal that
had been made to them for allowing the Chairman to
report progress.
Mr. IiEACII said ho had hitherto voted against the
Bill, having been pledged to do so, but he did not feel it
right to join in the course taken by the Hon. Member
for Dublin, which he considered was frittering away the
time of the country withuut any practical use.
Sir G. GREY said that after the division, considering
that the previous discussion had turned very much on
the first clause, he thought it was the duty of the Go-
vernment to ask the Committee, having regard to the
public time, which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Geach)
bad properly said should enter into their consideration,
to go on and make some further progress with the Bill.
Bur, as time was now passing, any discussion that might
now take place it was clear could lead to no practical
result in the way of advancing the measure to night.
It was true the Bill was nut delivered to Members be-
fore that morning, and that certainly was a ground for
acceding to the proposal for reporting progress; he
therefore only hoped that on coming to the Bill on
Friday next, which was the first day they could ap-
proach it, they would be allowed to go into Committee
at five o'clock, and tilt]] proceed with the consideratiOn
of the clauses.
The House then resumed; and the Chairman re-
ported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Fri-
day next.
The Hainault Forest Bill, and the sale of Arsenic
Regulation Bill were severally considered in Committee.
The Appointment to offices, &c., Bill passed through
Committee, and the report was brought up and ordered
to be received.
CUSTOMS BILL. •
On the motion for the second reading, . . .

ifr.llEitkiliES appealed to the Government not to
press so importint a measure at so late an hour, when
many lion. Members who were opposed to the Bill were
absent.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
was rather a hard task Hon Members imposed on
him. The Right Honourable Gentleman blamed him
now for bringing on the Bill. The last night
it was before the House be (the Chancellor of the
Exehequ..r) had been blamed for not proposing the
Bill because it was unopposed. Ha would postpone it.
Motion withdrawn.
The Gunpowder Stores (Liverpool) Exemption Re-
peal Bill was read a second time.
Leave was given to Lord SEY (OUR to bring in a Bill
to extinguish the right of the Crown to deer in the New
Forest, and for other purposes; and the Bill was brought
in and read a first time.

On tho melon of Mr. S. HERBERT, the Select Com-
mittee on the Passengers Act was noininated:—Mr.
Clements, Mr. Huwes, Admiral Bowles, Viscount Mel-
gund,Divett, Naar, Mr. Sergeant Murphy,
Mr. Adderley, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. William
Sir Thomas Birch, Mr. Willcox, and
sMirileithDnlr.yout
Mr. Henley.
On the motion of
it W. G. CRAIG, the Selret
Committee on Annuity-tax (Edinburgh) was appointed:
—Sir William Gibson Craig, Mr. 'Pufnell, Sir George
Clerk, Mr. Dcedes, Mr. John Benjamin Smith, Mr.
Bouverie, Mr. Forbes Mackenzie, Viscount Melgund,
Mr. Heald, Dr. Power' Sir David Dundas, Mr.
Smollett, Mr. Bunbury, Mr. Edward Ellice, and Mr.
Adderley.
On the motion of Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, Mr.
Keogh was substituted for the Earl of Arundel and
Surrey on the Mortmain Committee.
The House adjourned at a Qaarter before One o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 19.
The LORD CIIA.FCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool-
•t Five o'clock. -