The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-05 00:00:00

CHINA TRADE.

Sir GEO. STAUNTON considered he was doing far
better by bringing forward his resolutions at the present
time, whilst the question was as yet sub judice between
the East India Directors and the Government, than if he
brought them forward when the Government plan was
finally arranged. The Hon. Baronet the❑ stated that the
private trade to China was increasing—that there had been
in that trade an increase of 144 private vessels trading to
Canton. He stated this because he felt satisfied that it

was a proof that a revision of our commercial arrange-
ments with that country ought to take pldce. He then
proceeded to read extracts from several documents, and to
comment upon them, but the Hon. Baronet spoke in so
very low a tone of voice, that it was utterly impossible to
catch the meaning of a single sentence.

Mr. Sheriff HUAIPHERY rose and moved that the
House be counted.

The House was accordingly counted, and more than 40
111,.mbers bring present, we were again admitted into the
Gallery. We found Sir George Staunton still addressing
the House in the same completely inaudible tone as before.
After a few minutes,

Mr. Sh,riff HIMINIERY again moved that the
Louse be counted.

It was counted, and 40 Members not being then pre
sent, the House adjout ned at a quarter-past seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 4

The Earl of ROSEBERRY presented a petition for the
abolition of slavery.
The Bishop of LONDON moved that an humble ad-
dress be presented to his Majesty, praying for copies of the
letter, written on the 23d cf February by the Chancellor
of the Exchequer to the Poor Law Commissioners, and of
the answer returned by the Commissioners.—Agreed to.
Earl GREY presented several petitions for the abolition
of slavery and burgh reform in Scotland.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition, pray-
ing that a coroner's inquest might be held upon all per-
sons who die in mad-houses.
The order of the day having been read,
Earl ST. VINCENT rose and apologized for troubling
their Lordships, for he (lid not suppose that he could put forth
any new argument, except that which arose from the great
weight to be attached to the petition he should present—a
petition coming from a numerous and respectable body of
persons interested in the West India colonies, consisting
of bankers, merchants, mortgagees, and persons of various
descriptions. They felt that not only their property
derived from their ancestors, but the lives of all resident
i❑ the colonies, would be endangered by the measures
now before the House of Commons. He felt justified in
trespassing upon their Lordships, in giving a short history
of the nature and the manner in which that property was
obtained. The slave trade commenced i❑ the reign of Eli-
zabeth, and in the reign of William an Act was passed, he
believed 10 cap. 27, for encouraging the African slave trade ;
duties were imposed upon all things imported into the
colonies, except slaves, gold, and silver. In the 13th
and 14th of George 111. Acts were passed, inviting not
only the people of this country, but foreigners, to invest
their money in colonial securities ; and in those Acts
slave's were particularly mentioned, and under them mort-
gages had taken place. Those Acts were passed for the
protection of the mortgagees, as well as the mortgagors.
By another Act, the 58th of George 111., the manner,
in which a mortgage should be executed was par-
ticularly specified. The Government of this country
had sold both land and slaves and there were se-
veral petitioners now holding property of that description.
It had been thrown out in that House, and he was sorry
to hear it, he confess, d, that the West India proprietor had
no abstract right in the slaves, but he did not understand
what was meant by that abstract right, when it was sanc-
tioned by the established law of this country.—(Hear.)
If we were to look to that, to what lengths would it not
lead ? Slavery in Scotland was ❑ot put an end to till
1779, and if their Lordships would refer to the principal
Act, that of the 27th George 111., they would find
that it was not abolished on account of the hard-
ships of the slaves, but for other reasons. It was to
be hoped, therefore, that the remunerations, relief,
or compensation tor the property withdrawn front the
West Indies, would not be considered as for spoliation.
On that subject there seemed to be but one opinion on all
sides, and the petitioners stated that they wished to throw
no obstacle in the way of emancipation. That position
was proved by the first resolution of the Govern-
ment having been passed in the other Howe
unanimously.—(Hear.) The petitioners had long ago
stated their wish to put an end to slavery ; all they warred
was that they should receive compensation for their
property.—( Hear.) He would suggest to the Govern-
ment whether it was not expedient to rest at
one point--in the meantime whether it would not
be better to appoint a Commission to proceed to the
West Indies and co-operate with the planters in the
amelioration of the conditio❑ of the slaves. He said that
it was not to be expected that the slaves would work,
fur it must be considered that the production o►
produce of the means of living was so very easy that
there was no inducement for them to use any exertion.
He concluded by moving that the petition be read by the
Clerk

After that bad been done,
The Earl of RIPON rose. He said that was not
the proper time for entering into the full consideration of
such a question as had then been brought before the House ;
an extended discussion of it at the present moment he
thought would not tend to the speedy settlement of the
question. He must, however, say a few words upon the
subject, and first he would state the gratification he felt at
the manner in which it had been introduced by his Noble
Friend. His Noble Friend had referred to a series of
laws paper] by the Legislature of this country, by which
the right of property in slaves had been confirmed
to those who had the misfortune—for so he (the Earl of
Ripon) could not but consider it—of possessing them,
and had urged that fact as a reason why the Legislature
should not withdraw that species of property from then,
without giving full compensation. He would not enter
into the abstract question of the right of slavery, but could
not help observing, that all the feelings of our nature, and
all those principles which must be eternally true,
dc.
dared, in fact recoiled, against identifying a property in
lands or moveables with an unrestricted right of posses-
sion over the labour, persons, and, if be considered the
matter historically, he feared he might add, the lives of
their fellow-creattnes.—(Hear, hear.) But though the

best feelings of their nature were opposed to the recogni-
tion of such a species of property, he yet held that, as
the law of the land had created a right of property in
negro slaves—as the state was a party and participator in
its existence, it would be most unjust to exempt the state
from its share of the consequences. If, therefore, an.,
measure for the abolition of slavery should come before
their Lordships, it should be considered in reference to
this fact and principle—that a national wrong required a
national remedy,—that is, that the ❑ation should contribute
towards compensating for its own general institutions.—
(Hear, hear.) If any specific measure for the abolition of
slavery should, in the course of the session, come before
him, he should be prepared to show, in detail, that the
most careful examination of circumstances had led him to
the conclusion, that the time, the period—which no mere
human hand could have delayed—was arrived when Par-
liament must of necessity deal with the question with a
view to its final settlement.—(Hear.)
Lord SUFFIELD, on presenting a petition for the
abolition of negro slavery from Cork, signed by 6,000
persons, contended that the right of property of man in
man was contrary to the law of nature, to reason, and
revealed religion. The negro had an immortal soul, and
as such was responsible in a future state of exisieske
and lie appealed to the Right Rev. Bishops, whether free
agency was not a necessary condition of this responsibi-
lity. He also appealed to them, whether a black's soul
was not as dear to God Almighty as the soul of any of
their Lordships. The fact was, slavery was destructive
of the interests of religion, as well as of the physical
comforts of the negro—witness the diminution of 52,000
negroes, out of an aggregate number, in eleven years.
The Noble Lord having quoted Blackstone, in order to
show that slavery was opposed to the free principles of
the British constitution, and the opinion of Chief Justice
Holt, to the effect that even Parliament did not possess
the power of declaring, by enactment, that slivery should
be established in the British dominions, proceeded to cite
a case mentioned in Mr. Jereinie's " Essays on Colonial
Slavery," which showed that, not later than 1815, a
slave boy was in Martinique hanged for running away
from his master, while his mother, who harboured him,
eras, after being compelled to witness his execution, con-
demned to perpetual imprisonment. Now, in this hor-
rible case, what was the crime? Was the negro property ?
If so, he must be at best stolen goods. To whom did his
body and its use belong by the lacy of nature, but to him-
self? From whom, therefore, in running away, did
he take anything ? Surely only his own body, which be-
longed to himself alone. He need not dwell upon the
argument of custom or usage, which had been set up in
justification of the present system of negro slavery, as
Lord Mansfield had clearly over-ruled it, that such a cus-
tom was a malus usus which the law could not sanction.
The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from
certain ship-owners, merchants, planters, and traders, in-
terested in the West India colonies; also in reference to the
condition of those colon'es. The petition, which was
signed by 1,960 persons, including 16 of the first bankers
in London, prayed the attention of the Legislature to the
injurious effects not only upon themselves, as part of the
' general commerce of the country, but to the public inte-
rests at large, of aoy scheme likely to subvert the existing
relations of the West India colonies. He confessed that it
was the probability of those losses, as an effect of the
proposed scheme of Ministers, that made him regard it
with touch apprehension. It was not, however, with a
view to oppo,ir g its progress that lie presented the present
petition, but with the hope of inducing their Lordships
to proceed slowly and gradually, and above all, in con-
cert with the West India legislatures themselves, i❑ legis-
lating for the great interests involved in those colonies.
The petitioners dwelt most upon the loss which would
ensue to the public treasury no less than to themselves
from any rash disturbance of the present system. He did
not think the petitioners overrated the importance of those
colonies to the mother country. On the best consideration
of the subject, he had no hesitation in declaring that the
West Indies were worth no less than 12 000,0001. an-
nually to England, of which 5,000.0001. were received
by the revenue by way of duty, but little more than
2,000,0001. by the West India proprietors resident here,
the remainder being appropriated to the merchants and
shipowners who traded with the West Indies. Setting
aside, therefore, the mere interests of the planters, it was
the duty of the Legislature to pause ere it disturbed a State
of things productive of such important advantages to
the great reneral commerce of the mother country.
Let them recollect that to take one item alone, not
less than 240,000 tons were annually employed in
our West India comm-mce. The question of emanci-
patio❑ was surrounded with difficulties. When they
were told that the slaws had been wholly emancipated in
some of the American states, for example, they should
bear in mind that emancipation in these cases was th

consequence of experiments, which had demonstrated the
advint iges of free labour over slave labour, both i❑
cheapness and in amount. Now no such circumstances
obtained in the West Indies; if labour was free there,

there would be little or no produce, and yet it was pro-
posed to force a system of free labour is colonies so unfit-
ted for its adoption.—(Hear.) The great question after
all to be determined was, first, whether free labour was

adequate to the pro•luce and wantM of the West Indies ;
and, secondly, whether, tinder any circumstances, tree

negroes and tree whites could co-exist together in a sate
of equal freedom.—(Hear.) He maintained that they
could not, and he appealed to experience as a testimony.
Experience also showed that it was rash to expect that a
free West India negro would work as long and as effi-
ciently as he does now. It would be impossible to carry
the propos-d measures of Government into execution with-

out the full concurrence of the local legislatures. Tbo•e
measures could only be effected after a lapse of some time,
and at no inconsiderable expense. He trusted that no-
thing would be done incautiously or hastily. It was
❑ecessary to bear in mind the state of society in the
West India colonies : besides the colonial proprietors in
this country, there was a large body of proprietors living
in the colonies, and those persons were looking with the
utmost anxiety ano jealousy at all the proceedings of the

legislature at home.- He entreated the House to endeavour

to carry the colonists i 1 long with it, not only lbr their
sakes, hut for its own ; also for the sake of humanity, and
of the unfortunate. If emancipation were pressed forward
too hastily, and without the cooperation of the local

latures, scenes might occur such as had been witnessed in
the French colonies, but which he hoped never would be

witnessed in the English colonies.—(near.) The Noble
Duke also presented a petition from Greenock to the same
eff-ct as that before mentioned.

Lord SUFFIELD, in presenting a petition from Roch-
dale for the abolition of slavery, denied that there was any
ground for the Noble Duke's apprehension th it the ne-
groes when emancipated would not labour in the produc-
tion of sugar or otherwise. The evidence of Admiral

Fleming, with respect to the cultivation of sugar at Cuba,
the Bahamas, and Caraceas, had set that point at rest, and
satisfactorily proved that there was no danger of such a

result.

The LORD CHANCELLOR observed that the Noble
Duke appeared to him to have begged the question
throughout. The Noble Duke stated that the West India
colonies were worth 12,000,0001. a year to us, and that
they produced 5,000,0001. to the revenue: but the same
sum would find its way into the revenue if sugar were
brought from other colonies, and consumed to the same
extent, and under like circumstances, in this country.
(" Nu," from the Duke of Wellington.) No! Well, he
had thought this a proposition so clear, that it could be
necessary only to state it, in order to have it admitted at
once.--(Hear, hear.) In the saute way, too, the Noble
Duke might be assured that our merchants and our ship-
ping would find employment. He did not deny that some
portion of the taxation might be paid by the producers,
but the great bulk of it came out of the pockets of the
consumers. He could not but express his satisfaction at
the calm and liberal tone of the Noble Lord who bad
presented the first petition on the subject. He felt confi-
dent that the advice which that Noble Lord gave ta the
colonial interests was worthy of him to give, and of them
to receive; be trusted it would be acted on. He entirely
agreed with the Noble Duke, that the more the colonists
cud be brought to co-operate with the Legislature,
and the further they could be carried along with it,
the wetter; but he did not concur io what the
Noble Duke might probably consider a corollory on
that proposition—namely, that unless the colonial legis
laturea consented to act, and till they did act, it was im-
possible for the British Government to perform that
great arid important duty to which it stood pledged to the
slave, to the master, and to the country. He trusted that
the colonists would listen to the sound, judicious, and
temperate advice of these West India proprietors who re-
sided in this country, now that Parliament was disposed
—nay, determined to have the question settled on just
grounds, but within a reasonable titne—in point of fact,
as speedily as po.,sible. Ihe mere sending out of such
resolutions as had happily passed the Commons last night
without a division would be of the greatest use, by im-
pressing the colonists with a sense of the unanimity that
prevailed on the subject ; but so long as a hope or fancy
was indulged that the House of Lords would oppose itself
to a settlement of the question (which expectation he
trusted their Lordships would speedily put an end to),
lie was aware that a satisfactoiy conclu,ion could not
be arrived at with the concurrence of the colonial
legislatures. The Noble and Learned Lord then pre-
sewed petitions for the total and speedy abolition of
slavery from females of Bradford ; from Beverley ; and