The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-11 00:00:00

twined much informeti )11 respecting the time doh/
which children attended school. Mr. Horace Mann,
his voOune,, concluded that children of the upper ago
middle classes remained at school for about six yeDtt,',
If that were so, and children went to school at D:
years of age, and remained until 10 or 11, he asked vibi'
right had they to say that they would interfere with
strong hand between the employer of labour and th/
free exercise of parental discretion, and compel t°„'
children of the poor to be kept at school for a lose,
period than even the children of the upper and mid
classes ? He hoped that in the observations which bt
had made he had spoken with all deference of the noble
lord (Lord J. Russell), for whose position and abilitie,
be entertained the highest respect. But he could Dei
sit down without calling the attention of the houtt:
more than he had done, to that unfortunate ciao
children who were neither at work nor at school. Neitll'
the plan of his right hon. friend (Sir J. Pakington)o°l'
the plan of the noble lord at all attempted to deal orgre
plc with that question. He did not believe himself tll
it was possible to grapple with it by any legislatltt
enactment. He believed its causes were so varied
differing in almost every part of every large town, tlO.l
it could only be remedied by piecemeal. He regrett'
that the Privy Council had never directed its attentil
to the subject. The house would recollect that oneio
occasion since the commencement of these grants D
there been any grudging by Parliament of the meansli
quired by the Privy Council to aid education. He
not believe if the Privy Council tried to deal with t 1
great evil in any way which they thought fit—to opal!:
upon that class which one inspector described as "
Arab population of our cities "—that Parliament clot
begrudge the necessary means. He trusted that OA;
Privy Council would endeavour to deal piecemeal sci'
this subject, and he believed that Parliament would tell
joice to find that the Privy Council could say whether
with respect to London, Manchester, or Leeds, vibe/
there were thousands of poor children neither at Oro
nor at school, and engaged in all sorts of nkehief—a SC
have tried this scheme—we have got hold of and rescue ,J
a number of these children ;" if such a declaration coo;
he made, Parliament would thank the Privy ConDhehl;
It was very probable that one plan might succeed ID
north, and another in the south. One might have 1130,tt
of the religious element in it, and another less ;
by any means, the Privy Council could get bold of
children, he, for one, did not doubt that the house %Wily
give them its cordial support and sufficient means.
they attempted any who;esale plan they would tali
The task must be undertaken by zealous and earn_.ietii
men, on a small scale. If it did not suceeed, they wewt
at least have the consolation of knowing that the,;
had endeavoured to meet a great necessity. No 00,,
could deny that it was a more important and higher chi
to get hold of these children, abandoned practically DI3
morally by their parents, than to force, people to keep;
their children at school to the age of 15 years—it Weee
more important and higher duty tban that of, by forcib;
means, endeavouring to improve the quality of educatiet
itself. As soon as these poor children were taught the,o,
duty towards God and man, they would seek and obtel
employment. By this means a great number would
rescued—a great nucleus of our criminal populatlo
would be removed, and thus a great benefit would
conferred upon society at large. They must also .5
forget that instruction was not education. (Hear.) j
believed that the case of America, which bad been qi0,,,";0
by the noble lord, was conclusive on this subject.
.1-'Oll
system commenced there with parties of every religte;,'
stamp and character, and home influence in that 000141
try was much stronger than in England. They Dt'uo(
not pretend to say that the large class of the children
the working classes had any home influence, or that the)
could rely upon their parents, who had so hard a strip
,gle, for an existence, to devote any time to their religteti;
teaching. And there were thousands of persons iu larßll
towns to one minister of religion. The ministers of s,
p-Tsuaeions were equally earnest, active, and zealoge;
but, looking at their limited number, it was utterly tliejo
possible for them to supply the want of that which t'
schools could not give. If they adopted a great sweern,
o
ing plan of this kind, depend upon it they would P,
that which formed the security and stability of this cone
try, viz., sound religious teaching, which bad been con
sidered essential in all our educational institutions, o°os
,6,
the universities down to the schools of the lowest grade
The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving that thti
chairman do now leave the chair.
Mr. ADDERLEY thought the course adopted by tbi
right hon. gentleman was not very courteous to the nlis
lord who had paid so much attention to the question. .I
could not say he approved of all the resolutions proon
by the noble lord, but he hoped at least that the fir Pis:
them would be adopted. After much consideration,
had come to the conclusion that, in the religious and Veof
tical condition of England, a national system of rating 1
j,
the purposes of education was imoossible. He Wo'
therefore, put it to the noble lord whether 0
, for the sake
theoretical completeness, he would insist upon a schliyie which he could not carry ; and whether it would
better to improve and extend the present system, whea..l"
though theoretically imperfect, had the advantage of Pilo
tical efficiency ? But he could not consent to evade oa
question, as the right hon. gentleman proposed, hood
that would give the country an idea that the House
Commons was indifferent to the question altogether.
Mr. ELLICE agreed with Mr. Henley in deprecatel
the scheme of applying the charities of the country to "
specific purposes of education, and referred to certain
arise DI;
reties existing in Coventry as an illustration of the eves
that would from such a system. He would vote ''t
the first resolution of the noble lord, because he did 9i
wish it to go abroad that the house was indifferent to the
cause of education, but he would not pledge himself to ta
others. He thought a compulsory system of education • f
this country was impossible, and therefore the doll
o,e
Parliament was to encourage as much as possible the 1
lantary efforts which were now making in all directioq'ti ,
Mr. LIDDELL eulogised the existing system of Viol
Council assistance, and did not think that in the presed
temper of the country it was possible for the ingenuity
statesmen to devise a better.
Sever hon. members, among whom was Mr. Warren,
here rose to address the house, but, in obedience to a gene
ral cry of " New member," the others gave way.
Mr. WARREN said the question which had been intl!,
duced by the noble lord was one of the most difficult to
which the notice of Parliament could well be directed;
and the grave and statesmanlike spirit in which t'
noble lord had brought it forward was calculated to
ciliate the respect of the house as well as to produce --
very deep impression upon the country. (Hear, 10r:i
The question of the propriety of establishing a con 10);
hensive system of national education was beset with sue
deeply-seated, widely-spread, and closely-oonnected
n'
culties, that any one might be pardoned for approaceg
elo
it with great apprehension. (Hear.) If they viewed th°
difficulties from a little distance, they appeared threaten
,
es
ing, but if they went close to them their ramifications
seemed to be endless. Those were the best friends of tb
groat cause of popular education who were the most deeP!.fi
impressed with its difficulties after a patient survey 0".
them, and those were its greatest enemies who, on the °,
hand, overlooked or undervalued them, or, on the oat.?
Conjured up difficulties which did not really eltol„i;
and, yielding too easily to the representation that tus"or
were insurmountable, gave up their harassing efforts--;',„
harassing they were to an honest and energetic spirlt,eo
with a kind of feeling of despair. There were other en0113!0,
of this great cause. They were men who with the best ist,
teution expected too much or too little from the state "0
from the public—men who were so wedded to their 0110
opinions that they would rather see the ship founder Of')
not be allowed themselves to grasp the helm. (ge°loii
Lastly, there was a formidable class of enemies compose'
of those who were actuated by unavowed and illicit D3o,
Lives, and who unjustly imputed such motives to otbetio
(Hear.) He should not presume to dwell upon the detail
of the noble lord's resolutions. If he might be pardoned
for saying it, several observations made by precedll
speakers induced him to think that they had fallen into ,3.:
error of prematurely considering those details when the ti 6
teution of the house ought to be concentrated on the gel%
question of education itself. He should therefore coat;
himself to the question before thehouse, and make such em,
servations of a general nature as appeared to him to corae
fairly within the scope of the principle of the resolutiol
proposed by the noble lord. Considering the failures
,0
,he many attempts that had been formerly made to legis'
late upon this most difficult subject, he was induced to
regard somewhat tenderly any efforts that were made 1
cure past miscarriages; and, on that ground, he though
that not only the noble lord but the right honourable
gentleman below hiiu (Mr. Henley) were entitled to the
sympathy of the country. He could not, however, per'
suede himself, great as might be the difficulties which rr
set this subject, that they should be deliberately. pig'
nounced by Parliament to be absolutely insurmountable'
He could not persuade himself that there was something
exceptional in the character of this country, that its
icliosyncracy was such that that which had been dens else'
where—that that which was most practicable in a fro.
State and in a despotic State, in a young State and in 0
old State, in a great State and in a small State, in a sonar
chical State and in a republican State—could not be AC'
complished in this country. After the most dispassionate
and honest consideration which he had been able to gly°
to the arguments brought forward, differing as he did 1
opinion from many of his friends on this subject, he felt
it his duty to express his sentiments frankly to the hous3;
(Hear.) He believed that if any one calmly addressed
himself to the exigencies of this question, be would coin'
to the conclusion, sooner or later, as he himself had done,
that the time had arrived for the Legislature to assume
more resolute attitude and a more imperative tone on thie
subject than it had hitherto ventured to assume. (Hear.
Public education had hitherto been conducted and carried
on under the flag of the voluntary system. No one felt
more profoundly grateful than himself to those who lw
exerted themselves on behalf of the voluntary system Of
education ; but he was thoroughly convinced that the to*
which they had undertaken had proved too great for their
energies, and that it was not by private efforts that
.1!
nation could be educated. At the same time, men of all
classes and of every shade of opinion were beginning to get
disconcerted anddisgusted as they took a retrospective view
of the vacillation which the Legislature had displayed ell
this subject. The voluntary system-had done admirably
ivelliu thiscountry. It would be ungenerous and presnmP'
tuous to question that fact. What he said was this—and is
saying it he thought he was only echoing what was felt by
the noble lord —let the friends of the voluntary system con-
tinue their disinterested exertions; let them meet the efortS
of a Christian State in a friendly spirit. There was no
wish or motive to supersede them, but rather a wish to
stiengthen their hands and to give them the benefit of co'
Operation where they were not sufficiently strong. That
word " co-operation" contained the gift of the noble lord's
resolution. Neither the noble lord (Lord J. Russell), nor
the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington), nor any one who
supported them in the great cease of education had for one
moment entertained the idea of acting against the friends
of the voluntary system, or of superseding them. They
sought only to supply their deficiencies and to make their
exertions more effectual in the result. If the friends of the
voluntary system believed that they could accomplish their
object more effectually by themselves, let them not feel the
least disconcerted by the Legislature. The Legislature
would not discourage them. (Cheers.) But he firmly
believed by whatever name it might be called—whether
they spoke of it as the voluntary system, or as the permis-
sive system— still it must perform a conspicuous part in ac'
complishing that which they had been so long seeking, but
which they had hitherto sought in vain. The banquet had
been prepared, and the fiat had gone forth—" Go ye into
the highways and byways and compel them to come in.
(Cheers.) He spoke not of a law of physical compulsion ;
he spoke of moral compulsion, which should come in aid of
whatever legal compulsion might be included in the resolu•