The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-02 00:00:00

LONDON, SATURDAY EV ING, MARCH 2, 1833.

of the people, while on the other, in suspending the mea-
sure for so short a period as two weeks only, Hon. Gen
tlemen would feel every confidence was reposed in there
which any Government could demand from independen'
Members of Parliament. There was one remark which
had been made by the Noble Lord opposite (Althorp)
that occasioned much surprise among many gentlemen who
were warmly attached to Government. and that was, that
upon the issue of this question would depend whether they
kept their seats or resigned. Certainly that was nor
the way in which he (Mr. Bulwer) had understood that
questions were to terminate in a reformed Parliament. In
an unreformed Parliament, it bad been generally under.
stood, that when an opposition proved itself stronger than
the Ministers, the latter resigned their office, but in a re-
formed Parliament, in which there were so many indepen-
dent men, he certainly understood that that would
not be the case. The Members of the House were, there-
!ore, placed in a very awkward predicament, for they were
either bound to support every measure introduced by Mi-
nisters, or, by advocating them upon any one question, oc-
casion their resignation. If lie could think that
Ministers would quit office upon such an important
question as that before the House being decided against
them, he must say that he never knew so strong a di.
reliction from what he had understood would be the
conduct of the Government. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Stanley) in asking for such extra-
ordinary powers, did not ask for them in order
to perpetuate the abuses existing in Ireland, but
in order to put down stare of civil confusion
in that country, which was perfectly incompatible with
all good Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman said,
that in order to bring back tranquillity to Ireland, the
abuses in the Church and other establishments must he re
formed ; but, he added, that until that was done, would they
have life and property destroyed, or would they see it
preserved ? He (Mr. Bulwer) felt as deeply as any one
that there were grievances in Ireland, but he would not ad-
mit that the existence of any grievance could justify murder,
robbery, or arson. From those crimes, as well as from those
grievances, Ireland should be speedily delivered. If those
crimes were not the effect of any insulated disorder, but of
a deep laid conspiracy, and if the Government asked for
extraordinary powers, the case should be made out by
those who asked for those powers, and in propor-
tion to the strength they demanded, should be the
wrength of the evidence to warrant the House in
granting them. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated
that be had a case to produce to the House—that it was
a strong one, and that the House would decide upon it.
He had divided his case into three parts—first, with a
view of showing the existence and the extent of the out-
rages; second, to show a conspiracy or plan ; and, third,
to prove that the measures which he was bringing forward
were the best and most effectual to repress those outrages.
No one could doubt, upon the statement made by the
Right Hon. Secretary, that crime and outrage prevailed
to a considerable extent in Ireland, but he must say that
the Right Hon. Gentleman completely failed in making
out anything like a conspiracy. The first document,
if he could so call it, which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had quoted in support of that position was the speech of
a friend of the Hon. Member for Dublin, in which the
pacificator was supposed to have said that he was ready,
at the command of the Honourable and Learned Mem-
ber, to rise in arms against the Government.
But was the House of Commons to legislate
upon a rliodomontade of this description ? If the House
could be alarmed upon expressions of this kind, it
was a very different assembly to what it had
shown itself six months ago. He remembered a
Gallant Friend of his rising from the opposite benches,
and stating that if the Reform Bill were not carried in
that House and the people were to rise in arms to obtain
it, lie had a sword at their service. But who was there
alarmed at his Gallant Friend's visionary weapon ? The
Right Hoe. Secretary, having stated Ow, turned to the
bundle of papers with a grave air, and he (Mr. B.) 'bought
he was about to produce some document, like the opinion
of the Judges of Ireland produced on a former occasion,
stating the opinion of the Judges, that it was impossi-
ble for them to proceed in the ordinary course of the
administration of justice. But instead of anything of that
kind, the Right Hon. Gentleman produced a sort of metri-
cal romance.---(Laughter.) Certainly the poetry was bad.
but bad poetry was not yet treason; he teeny had thong it
that upon that kind of evidence the Right Hon. Gentleman
might very well despatch the Learned Lord Advocate
and the Member for Leeds with a pocket of pens and a
box of paper to instruct the Irish in a better style of compo-
sition. He did not expect that he wished to break a
poetical butterfly on the wheel of a courtmartial, or that
he would ask them to give up their rights for a rhyme,
and the Constitution for a song.—(Cheers.) The same
kind of disturbance had always existed in Ireland as had
been described by the Right Hon. Gentleman ; but,
ins!eld of Whitefeet and Whiteboys, they were
called Rockitee and 'rerryalts. When the Right Hon.
Gentleman quoted the evidence of Mr. ELrrington, to
prove the existence of this kind of disturbance, it
was to be regretted he did not quote that gentleman's opi-
nion as to the best means of suppressing it. Had he
done so, the House would have beard that Mr. Barrington
was expressly asked the questi in, and that Mr. Barrington
said he kn-w of no other means than the ordinary
laws of the land. The Right Honourable Gentle-
nun next referred to the opinion of the Com•
mi tree of the last session, but that Committee
had recommended that the disturbances should be put
down with the least possible infringement on the Consti-
tution. Mr. Barringion was asked what caus..d the exist-
ing excitation ? His answer was, that it was caused by
the people considering that the laws were in themselves
unjust, and that, cons-quently, the sentences under these
laws were so many acts of aggression. He would
ask, then, was it likely when these laws were still more
summary and severe, they would improve in the opinion
of the people ? Did the Right Hon. Sect etary suppose that
when the law was stripped of its solemnities, and of
its impressive forms, more respect would be shown to
the acts of judges sitting in Court with swords by their
sides? Mr. Barrington, in answer to a question, had de-
clared that he knew no instance of the slightest
hostility against juries. Other evidence had shown
that many unfortunate creatures had been goaded
into every species of violence by measures of severity
and injustice; while it went on to declare that
the Irish peasant was, above all others, more attached to any
one who treated him with kindness. An Hon. Gen-
tleman, in the debate of last evening, had called this
measure a constitutional measure, and that it should
also be made an effectual one. But how could the de-
sired effect be expected from a measure that must go to
create an opposite extreme ?—(Hear.) The Hon. Mem-
ber had accused an Honourable relative of big, of in-
consistency, because he voted for the address to the
Crown, and opposed these measures that were there
promised, and which were now brought forward as
springing out of it.—Hear, bear.) It must be re-
membered, that in that speech conciliatory measures
were spoken of. Now, his Hon. Relative might have
been anxious to know whether those measures of
conciliation were to precede those of coercion, and
in the next place he might have been anxious
to know whether those conciliatory measures
were to be of that large and ample kind which
was expected by the country. He had also been charged
with inconsistency, and to no charge bad he paid more
attention than to that ; but had he not already done
away that charge ? Another Honourable Member had
spoken much of what the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin had called pacific resistance. Now, what had
been the language used by the Honourable Gentleman?
Speaking of the life of Hampden, before the revolution took
place, he said that which was merely a sect before perse-
cution was afterwards able to resist the Monarch, with-
out breaking the law. No man could be more fearful of
this pacific resistance than he was, for he feared that where
it once took root, it could not be eradicated by force.
The Hon. and Learned Member had made allusion to
the Jacobins and Jacobin Club. He wondered that
that Hon. and Learned Gentleman bail not called to
mind the statements made by a friend of his with
respect to Jacobins.—(Hear.) He wondered that he did
not consider how he had refuted such statements when
brought against the Noble Earl now at the head of his
Majesty's Ministers. He wondered the Honourable Gen-
tleman bad not taken more advantage of his historical
recollections when speaking of the Jacobin Club.
He would not longer trespass on the attention of the
House; but he trusted they would support the cause of
those who had always done every thing to support both
civil and religious liberty.

Sir GEORGE GREY next addressed the House. In
doing so, he guarded himself against being supposed capa-
ble of harbouring that hatred to Ireland, for such was the

expression that had been u.ed, imputed as actuating
those Hon. English Members of the House who
dared to support the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He might
not gain credit with all the Hon. Members on the opposite
-ide of the House, but he hoped that he should have
credit with those who knew him,—aud they were his feel-
ings, and the feelings of many around him,—when he
said it was with the greatest regret he should support that
measure. Regret, not that it had been introduced—not
that it had been introduced by a reforming Ministry,
which possessed the confidence of the country, by showing
themselves the protectors of its dearest interest.,
nut regret that that particular necessity existed which
called most imperatively for its introduction. After
hearing the statement made by the Noble Lord
(Althorp), hearing that able and eloquent speech,
so often alluded to, addressed to the House by his
Right Honourable Friend the Secretary for Ireland, he
.ttiotld feel that the blood shed in Ireland by the
continuance of the outrages existing there rested
pertly on his head if he refused or delayed givinghis supper,
to this Bill. He regarded Ireland as an integral part of the
empire, and, regarding it as such, he should be worthy
indeed of the imputations thrown on gentlemen on his
side of the House, if be did not, having sup-
ported this Bill, vote for a measure introduced by any
Government having the confidence of the country, of a
similar tendency, equally severe and appicable to the same
case of paramount overwhelming necessity. But while
he said this, he denied the possibility of this Bill being
drawn into a precedent for England. That
there were grievances under which Ireland had long
laboured, none were more ready than he to admit. Indeed
he was convinced that these bad been the original cause of
the present unhappy state of that country ; but knowing
that these causes did not exist in England, he was putting
only a hypothetical case, and he was justified in saving
that the state of England or Scotland could never justify
any Minister coming to that House and asking for such
extraordinary powers. Ireland, at present, was disgraced
by outrages of the most atrocious character. He had to
make use of the language in the preamble of the Bill, a
conspiracy existed—(Hear)-_.a conspiracy existed against
the rights of property—(Renewed cries of " Hear ")—and
against the administrators of the laws—(Continued cheers)
—a conspiracy which rendered those laws a by-word—
(Cneers)—ea conspiracy which made them a protection to
the guilty, instead of the innocent. There had been an
aggravation of the state of things by what had been called
the accursed tithe laws. What the Hon. Memb r for
Tipperary said last night, undoubtedly supported this
statement, and he (Sir G. Grey) was not prepared to deny
that the tithe system had been a prejudicial circumstance—
(Hear, hear)—and when the proper time came for enter-
ing into an inquiry on this subject, he would enter into it
with as impartial a mind as any individual in that House.
—(Hear, hear.) At the same time, it was absolutely
necessary there should be a measure of this kind in the
interim to repress and restrain while measures of a reme-
dial kind were in progress, and until the confidence of the
people of Ireland in that House had been restored which
had been undermined by the tendency of the political as-
sociations in that country. Had the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman opposite not had agitation to his heart's con-
tent, and had he not had ample opportunities of applying
any remedial influence in his power, while the Right
Honourable Secretary had even been detailing fresh ac-
counts of the must atrocious acts that had been received,
and every thing conspired to render the adoption
of some effective measure absolutely necessary? He
fully admitted that the agitations in Ireland, connected
with his undoubted great talents, had given the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman a power and influence which no one
could deny, but could any one say that he had used that
influence and power in a manner to bring about a peace-
able. and constitutional state in that country ? Whatever
the Hon. and Learned Member might mean when uttering
ehe speeches he did in Ireland, he could not believe that
their effect was tranquillising. Whet did the Hon. and
Learned Member say the other night, when dragged to that
table by the indignant feelings of that House—(Cheers)—
which felt that its privileges had been grossly insult• d, to
explain the language attributed to him in the newspaper
reports, and which violated those privileges if the report
was true? The explanation given by the Hon. and Learned
Alember afforded strength to his argument, for what did it
amount to? Not to an assertion thtt the report was a
calumnious falsehood, or a gross misrepresentation, but
that the report might easily have got into the paper, that
the reporter w .s guiltless, and that he was not surprised at
seeing what he had been thought to say, for that his language
'night easily have been misconceived. —( Hear.) Indeed, the
Hon. and Learned M mher added that his thoughts fol-
lowed each other ao rapidly, that lie was not always com-
pletely ma-ter of his own language. Now, was it not pos-
sible that he might fall into the same mistakes in Ireland,
and that he might make speeches there under the influence
of the same feelings? Toe report of his spe. ches in the
Dublin papers was never contradicted, and why ?
( Hear, hear.) Because he could not be arraigned for
what he said at the table of that House. We must infer,
therefore, that these inflammable speeches were circulated
in Ireland, under the notion that they were not. calculated
to da injury, although certainly they tended, in his (Sir
G Grey's) opinion, to anything but the maintenance of the
peace, or the production of confidence in this assembly as
the representatives of the people.—(Hear, hear.) This
led hint to the remark that the time chosen by the Hon.
and Learned Member to stir up agitation in favour of a
repeal of the Union, was precisely that when he knew the
constitution of this House was to be changed.--(Cries of
No, no.") He could not dive into the Honourable/and
Learned Member's mind, and 8 ,y when the Hon. and
Learned Member first saw that the repeal of the Union
was a specific, and the only specific for the ills of Ireland ;
but, if his memory deceived him not, be only began the
agitation for a repeal of the Union when the Reform Bill
was brought in by the present Government.—(Hear.)
It looked as if the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
saying the time was nearly come when that House would
fairly represent the opinions of the people, and that it
would then seek to redress the grievances of Ireland, be-
gan to agitate the repeal of the Union.—(Cheers.) The
Hon. and Learned Member had taught the people to
withhold their confidence, and to have only confidence in
t ,enaselves. The Hurlers of Tipperary had taken his ad-
vice.--( Hear, hear.) 'f he laws, instead of protecting the
peaceable and well disposed, were disregarded and trampled
down. It was under these eireumatances that he could
not conscientiously refuse his Majesty's Government his
support. He was not, however, prepared to say that at
first sight he would have assented to the whole of the
measure—( Hear, hear)—because he had objection; to some
parts of it. His wrongest objection was to the courts-
martial—(Hear)—for his mind revolted at their establish-
ment; but had any substitute been proposed for them ?
Had any Hon. Member who opposed the Bill proposed
any substitute? Not one. If there was anything that he
objected to in that Bill, it was to the introduction of a
military tribunal. Nothing would induce him to support
this portion of the Bill, if any other means of carrying its
other provisions into effect could be determined upon in
Committee. He must say that Ministers, in taking upon
themselves this fearful responsibility—(Hear)—had done so
as if the change about to tae made were a light one. He
hoped the Bill, if passed, might yet be found unnecessary,
—(Cheers.)
Mr. D. W. HARVEY was convinced of the sincerity
of tile principles of the Hon. Baronet who had just re-
sumed his seat. Among other things he bad truly said,
that this Bill might, ere long, be applied to Engl and, and
he was prepared to concede that if similar circumstances
occurred in this country as in Ireland, the Ministers ought
to be armed with corresponding power. This, in fact,
was just what the opponents of the Bill apprehended.—
(Hear.) At present the measure was narrowed to Ire-
land, but who should say how soon, and before the people
of England were at all prepared for it, it might be applied
to them ? Comparing the situation of England and of
Ireland, he (Mr. D. W. Harvey) would ask, in what part
of Ireland had raged a conflagration which desolated one
of the first commercial cities of the empire ?—(Cheers.)
What castle of Ireland had smoked with rebellious fires
like that of Nottingham ?—(Cheers.) What agrarious
disturbances had convulsed any county of Ireland as
Exaggerateopnuet of
together,t
htnhs
eet
they had convulsed Hampshire? (Great cheering.)
qa
nuccattelsisee
do,off e
citriilmere Governmentiiinllarterl
atrocity
cnaidtsy,
)on. orour i anl'louo disregard
d lhneorat
of law, what had been done in England.—(Hear, hear.)
One thing had peculiarly struck him in the course of this
long, but not too long debate; he alluded to the enormous
debt of gratitude on the part of Ministers to the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin.—(Cheers and laughter.)
His speeches might not always he characterised by the
soundest wisdom or discretion, but recollecting the course
he bad so long pursued, the title of the Bill upon the table

ought rather to have been " A Bill to put down tlo
patriotic efforts of the Member for Dublin." This recog
nition of his importance was due from those who were se
deeply indebted to him; for the Rossini Catholic claim•
would not to this day have been conceded but for the ex-
ertion of his talents—the Whigs had long been entangled
in the difficulties of the subject, and he had at last remove,
die stumbling block to their re-admission into office
Notwithstanding their obligations, the Bill was directs''
only against him, and die Constitution of Ireland was to h.
sacrificed, and that of England threatened, in order ti•
silence him. As to rite question of the repeal of the le
gislative Union, if ally man thought the continuance of i'
injurious to the one country or to the other, he was a
liberty, in the House or out of it, to advocate the re-
peal of that law as he would the repeal of a Turnpik
Bill. If the Union could not be maintained upon i •
merits—if it were not sanctified by its utility, it (nigh,
to be abrogated Were Ministers afraid cf meeting de
question, or rather were they willing only to meet it by
measure which stifled all discussion ?—(Cheers.) H.
(Mr. D. W. Harvey) believed that if the Bill on the tahl
passed and received the Royal assent, if the present Mini-
sters remained in office, within twelve months it wool,
be applied to England.—(Cheers and laughter.) If Ali
nisters were true to their own principles, such must be th.
result. He begeed to ask whether Government though
they were upon a bed of roses—he meant as to the expec
tations of the country? When Reform ended. expectation.
began, and he believed that the people at this time hail
strong confidence in the deliberations and decisions of the
House of Commons—that it was, in fact, the mirror of
the public mind; and he believed it would be difficult at
this time to get up a county meeting upon almost any
subject, since it would be urged that it was needless to in
terfere with a House of Commons that could be trusted, al
to impede a Ministry that had only in view the general wel-
fare of the empire. If, however, the people saw that the re-
formed House of Commons was resolved to adopt this Bill.
after such silky representations as had been heard from the
Noble Lord, they would soon withdraw their confidence.
He was satisfied that there existed a strong tie of sympa-
thy between the people of England and the people of Ire-
land, notwithstanding all that had been said and done to
prevent it. The people of England would take part with
their brethren of Ireland, and if meetings should be held
in this country requiring the House to repeal the legisla-
tive Union, what answer would be made to their demand ?
Would Ministers put down meetings in Ireland while they
encouraged them in England ? Would they convert the
people of England into advocates for a repeal of the Union,
as their only mode of showing their sense of the oppres-
sion inflicted upon Ireland ? Having offered these preli
winery observations, he was anxious to make a few re-
marks upon the measure itself. It had been said, among
other things, that Ministers has irded their fame and their
places upon the measure. That declaration reflected
infinite honour upon them, because it clearly de-
veloped the line of policy in which they meant to perse-
vere. He was willing to give them the full measure of
praise they deserved : he owed them no obligations, nor
they him. He would examine the measure, therefore.
and not criticise the men ; and as to the question of a
change in the Cabinet, he must say, that of all the evils
that could befal the country, none would be greater than
that there should be no change of Administration—
(Laughter)—that there was only one body of men whose
heats were so crowded with intellect and intelligence that
they alone were fit for office—that without them all w.iuld
he wild confusion—that the Islands of Great Britain
would be cut from their cables, and drift at will upon the
wide waters, unknown and unpiried. To such a pass
this country need never come ; for thousands of Ministers,
and of good Ministers, too, were to be found in half the
Political Unions of the kingdom.—(Laughter.) Time
had been when the art of government was a mystery;
now, noshing was more simple. He should not, the: of ire,
be deterred in his vote by any fear lest another Govern•
ment could not be lot med. He was not alarmed even at
the idea of a Tory Government.—(Laughter from all
sides.) Let Ministers pass this Bill, and they would
soon find, like one of the Members for Westminster, that
they were in an uncomfortable situation. But Tories
could not remain in office longer than Whigs, if the people
did not sanction their measures—(Loud cheers)—
and, in his conscience, he believed that the best
Government for the country would be a Tory
Ministry, acting under the recollection of their former
errors. —(Much laughter.) The truth was, that the
cause of the people was never more deserted than at this
tnoment. Suppose a Tory Minister had come down
upon this question with his red box and his thirteen
cases spread over fourteen months, toe Whigs would hay,
started in a phalanx from the Opposition Benches to re-
situ it, and it would have been impossible for the Speaker
to decide which of the eager ()tabus had first caught his
eye.—(Laughter.) They would have talked of the House
of Brunswick, of the Constitution, of the laws, and what
not; and of their predeces-ore, the Somersee, the Russells,
and the Hamdens, while the Tory Government would
have been denounced as a Cabinet of traitors, united for
the destruction of the liberties of the country.—(Cheers.)
He would not go into the particular clauses of the Bill,
but say of the whole, that it was a concentration of con-
spiracies against the liberties of the country ; and it was
idle to talk of the time occupied in the discussion of it,
or impatiently to reiterate the cry of " Question " on the
third nigot of debate, since the millenium ought to arrive
before the House decided in favour of the measure.—
(Cheers.) What was the Bill? In one clause it sus-
pended the Habeas Corpus Act—in another it esta-
blished courtsinartial—in a third it placed the whole of
Ireland under the arbitrary nod of one man—in a fourth
it abolished the trial by jury—in a fifth, it sounded, by a
tremendous proclamati n, the blast of death over the
entire kingdom—and, finally, it rendered the Press sub
servient to this monstrous ty ranny.—(Cheers.) Where
the Attorney-General could find assistance iu drawing
this Bill he knew not, but it seemed to him (Mr. D. W.
Harvey) that the Right Hon. Gentleman must have
sought counsel in the lowest depths of Hell, for there only
could adequate advisers be discovered.—(Laughter.) Has
opinions upon this subject were in complete accordance
with those of a great man, the hatchets of whose shoes
his successors were not worthy to unloose, Lord Chat-
ham ; whose expressions had been quoted by the late
Lord Erskine, in a speech which he delivered in 1'797.
" If," said Lord Chatham, " we mean to unite the nation
within itself, we must convince them that their com-
plaints are regarded, and that their grievances shall be re-
dressed. On that foundation, I would talcs the lead in
recommending peace and harmony to the people ; on any
other, I would never wish to see them united again. It
the breach in the Constitution be effectually restored,
the people will of themselves return to a state of tran-
quillity ; if not, may discord for ever prevail. I know
to what point this doctrine and language will appear
directed, but I feel the principles of an Englishman,
and I utter them without apprehension or reserve. The
crisis is indeed alarming, and it requires so much the more
prudence on the part of Government." Lord Chatham
went on to state, that rather than the birthrights of
Englishmen should be surrendered to a despotic Minister,
old as he was, he yet hoped to see the question brought to
issue between the people and the Government. It was a
matter worthy, in an especial degree, the attention of the
House, that the present Bill was introduced—not into
that, but into the other House of Parliament. He must
be allowed to express considerable regret that the measure
should not have originated with the Commons, and not
to have been made to proceed from that branch of the
Legislature with which the people had the least sympathy.
He should apply himself exclusively to the real question
before the House, which in some sort divided itself into
two parts—the quality and provisions of the Bill consi•
dered by themselves, and the condition of public affairs
which were said to have given occasion for such a mea-
sure. That condition of affairs was one for which the
present Ministers of the Crown were answerable. Why
had they permitted things to arrive at such a crisis—why
had there not been means taken to have confided the go-
vernment of Ireland to such an individual as the Duke
of Sussex—(Cries of " Oh, oh !")—to the brother of the
King—to him who was beloved by the people of Ireland,
and who would have governed them, and who would have
associated with him in the government of Ireland persons
really acceptable to the people of that country. If that
Illustrious Personage had gone to Ireland with the charter
of the people's liberties in his hand, making them in deed,
and not in name, united with the people of this country,
then would such a Bill as now disgraced the annals of
British legislation not have been necessary, even in ap-
pearance—lie never could admit that it was so in reality.
They had the measure of coercion—they were sure of
that ; the measure of coercion was put beyond all possi-
bility of uncertainty ; but bow stood it with the measures
of concession ? Only one bad been proposed, and that

was by no means placed upon so safe a position as tht t
which had been occupied on behalf of the measure then
'aid upon the table of the House of Commons. if those
measures were really intended to he concurrent, why were
they not made to run together? If the measure of se-
verity was to proceed from their Lordship., why did
not the healing measure come likewise?—(ll ar, hear.)
Why did not some Memb-r of the Holy Bench propose to
—form the Church, and do away with the Church
c-as ?—(Hear, hear) He was aware that it might b,
the fact, that some technical objecion existed to the ii.-
:roduction of any measure connected with zess, in ant
'lace except the House of Commons, but he would repeat
the question—why did not the measure of Church Reform,.
originate in the other House ? No; the Ministers thought
proper in effect to tell the clergy, we are unpopular with
-he Lords ; we are suspected'by the people ; but be as
cured of this, that we will abrogate the Constitution in
Ir.dand rather than you should lose one particle of your
tithe. Yes, the Ministers of the Crown were prepared to
abrogate the Constitution—they were prepared to put an
and to the bond of mutual allegiance and protection--they
denied pr itection to the people of Ireland—there woe
.nillions in that country wholly unnrotected : they granted
to the Trish the rights of sepulchre, and that they called
yielding them protection. It had been affirmed, and
n ver with effect denied, that the obligations of allegiance
and protection were mutual—every human being wh.•
breathed the air of Heaven was entitled to protection and
to fond so long as he gave his labour ; that was the
condition upon which human existence depended, and
whosoever attempted to abolish that inevitable condition ot
our nature, attempte,l what happily was as impracticable
ait was nefarious. The knot, however, was sought ti
he eut by the declaration that the Irish were a people dif-
erent from any other ; that what might do very well for
e English, would not answer at all for their more mer-
curial neighbours ; that the Irish were to be kept down
sty a system of legislation wholly at variance with British
law and British constitutional principles. That, he hesi-
tated not to say, was one of the foulest libels that could be
pronounced upon the Irish people ; and, as coining from
Englishmen, it was fraught with the deep stain of ingrati-
ude ; and it was a reproach, be it remembered, that was
never uttered in the hour of danger. No, the value of
the Irish was well understood in the moment of peril ;
their generous and devoted spirit was appreciated when
the enemies of England thundered at her gates, but in the
hour of peace and security those services of an oppressed
people were forgotten, and nothing was heard hut the
language of threat and of hostility. It had become an old
constitutional maxim in England, that every man's house
was his castle ; but the new system of legislation for Ire-
land would turn every cottage from that which it ought
to be—namely, the castle of its owner—into a gaol ; the
tenant of a cottage was not for a moment to step over his
own threshold, he was not to go forth to enjoy the light
or the air of heaven, without rendering an account that
should satisfy the inquisitorial police. Why, if the
poor man was confined to his cottage, did not the rich
man go home to his castle?—Why did not the Govern-
ment use the means within its reach for the purpose of
sending home the rich man, and compelling him to become
the protector of the poor? Mr. Fox, the leader of that
party which the present Administration professed to follow,
had said, with reference to a measure far less objectionable,
that it was one which should on no account be acceded to,
without evidence gone into before the House or before a
Committee. To decide upon such a measure without
evidence, or even with evidence, except in a case of ex-
treme necessity, was too detestable to be imputed to any
Government on less authority than on their own admis
sion. Hr asked, was it possible that the good feeling of
the people of England could be insulted with any proposi-
tion so monstrous—a proposith,n which amounted to
nothing less than the total annihilation of public liberty ?
Ile hoped that the people would take due alarm at ti
prospect before them—that they would assemble and sue
cesafully oppose a Government intent upon the deetroction
of all freedom. He went on to ask, what freize could
have seized the Ministry of the time? He (Mr. H )
would ask the descendants of the party which Mr. Ea
led, to answer the question.—(Loud cries of " Hear.")
Lord J. RUSSELL began by observing, that the
doc-
trines of the Hon. Member who had last addressed the
House, would, if followed out to their consequences, pre-
sent principles fraught with the destruction of property,
the dissolution of society, and an end to everything lik
good older and civilisation. The Noble Lord then pro.
ceeded to contend that the measure before the House Into
been imposed by flatting less than the highest degree o:
necessity; and when that necessity had not been dis
proved, were they to be told that 'he proper mode
meeting it would be by putting matters (if for a fort
night? If any course could be full of weakn-ss, it was
,hat. If the remedy were required, it was the duty of
Parliament to apply it boldly, and if not, they were calls,
upon to put a direct negative upon the proposition. It
the responsible advisers of the Crown were to say that
they would not give protection to life and property it.
Ireland, they were bound at once to abandon their place it,
the Councils of his Majesty. Were they to allow the White
feet to govern the country. or were they to permit the
dictation of one who " wielded the fierce democracy'
ef Ireland, or were they, as they ought, to eat iblist
the sovereignty of Parliament and of the law? Thu
lion. Member for Colchester had said that the best
government for the country in the present times would
he a Tory Government wise enough to correct its Oirtnei
errors. He was sure that the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite would not he very ready to assist in forming an
administration whose tenure of office dep-nded upon such
support as they might derive front gentlemen of the same
principles as those of the Hon. Member for Colc:iester.—
(Hear, hear, from Sir R. Peel.) Five years ago, in 1828,
gentlemen were accustomed to speak in the manner the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman who last addressed the Hone
had done. They used, as he had done, to inveigh against
the impolicy of legislating for one individual. To see
whether it was impolitic or not, it would he necessary to
go a little into the history of Ireland for the last few years.
The Catholic question long agitated that country, and was
long debated in that House. The Hon. Gentlemen who
sat on the opposite benches were neatly unanimous in its
support, whilst those who sat on his side the House wen
divided in their sentiments ; and those who were against
the measure bad the support of the Crown, whilst all
were open to its influence. This being then the feeling
of that House upon Catholic Emancipation, the effect of it
was, that at length there came a period when a single in-
divitiugl, appealing to the wants and to the passions of the
Irish Catholics, acquired an influence and a power over
their minds that formed one of the most extraordi-
nary cases to be met with in any history. Under the
influence and the guidance of that individual, at.
association was farmed which collected taxes, interfered with
trials, directed public opinion, and absolutely usurped all
the functions of the Government of the country. When
Parliament met, after the vacation, it saw the necessity of
bringing in a Bill granting Catholic Emancipation, and
soon after of granting full powers to the Lord Lieutenant
to put down the Catholic Association. It was expected
that that Association would have ceased as soon as Eman-
cipation was accorded. But no, the power the person
before-mentioned held, in consequence of the denial or
Catholic claims, was not withdrawn from him by the
Irish people. Through gratitude, or through some other
motive, they still adhered to him, and were prepared to
adopt whatever measures he advised. That power and
influence he still held, and wished seemingly to retain it,
from what motives it was not easy to divine ; they may
be motives of personal aggrandisement, of a double ambi
tion, or they may be motives of the purest patriotism. No
one knew. However, that individual continued to recom-
mend agitation for certain porpoises, of course only known
to himself. If he was the cause of having the attention of
the Legislature directed to Ireland five years ago, it could
not be made a matter of complaint against the present
Government, if he was again the cause at the present time.
The measures that the Government then pursued, were
different from those it was called upon now to pursue. The
agitation of Ireland is the first and second instance was
different. During the first agitation, this extraordinary
case happened, that a people excited by their wants and
passions still preserved the peace, and this Catholic Associa
tion was seen most active, and happily most efficacious in
preventing outrage. The result of the second Association
was not the same; on the contrary, it was quite different;
for, as soon as it began, it commenced with such scenes of
insubordination and outrage, that the ordinary laws were
not found sufficient to suppress them. Out of 160 out-
rage! which happened last year, not one was for tithes.
During December last there was committed every species
of outrage; and in last February, up to the 18th, six
or eight outrages had been perpetrated, every one oi
' which related to the surrender of lands; so that it was
clear that this second agitation was not purely a political