The Sun.
London, England, 1834-06-19 00:00:00

TO EARL GREY AND THE PETITIONS TO PARLIA

MENT FROM GLASGOW, ON THE GRIEVANCES OF

BRITISH DISSENTERS, AND THE SEPARATION OF

CHURCH AND STATE.
(From the Glasgow Argus.)
On their arrival in London, the deputies immediately
put themselves in correspondence with one of the city
members, Mr. James Oswald, of whose attentions
during their stay in London, and of whose services in
promoting the objects of their mission, they cannot
speak but in terms of sincere and grateful acknow-
ledgment. At Mr. Oswald's suggestion, a few days
were allowed to elapse before the deputies applied to
Earl Grey for the favour of an interview, arising from
the many and pressing engagements with which his
lordship was then engrossed ; but immediately on pre-
senting their request, which Mr. Oswald kindly en-
closed in a note from himself, Lord Grey communi-
cated his desire that the deputies should wait upon him
at his official residence on the following day.
Exactly at the hour fixed they were introduced to
his lordship, whose whole demeanour and language
was mild and courteous. After all were seated, the
memorial was read by one of the deputies, and a con-
versation ensued, the substance of which has been for
some time before the public. The sentiments of Lord
Grey were well known beforehand, and he repeated
strongly his conscientious attachment to the Church
of England, and his determination to use his influence
to preserve its legal establishment ; while he gave the
deputies and the memorialists the same credit for their
conscientious convictions which he requested them to
extend to him. In as far, however, as the memorial
is concerned, the deputies conceived that their mission
was accomplished by their having obtained a patient
hearing of the memorial by Lord Grey--by their hav-
ing the opportunity of stating to his lordship verbally
important facts respecting the progress of the opinions
which the memorial contains, and the perfect coinci-
dence of the memorialists with the great body of the
English Dissenters on the vital question of the church
and state, and in their contributing to draw the atten-
tion of many in England to the subject by the pub-
lishing of the interview and the memorial in the Eng-
lish journals, in nearly all the most influential of which
these became the subjects of leading articles.
From the arrangements of the House of Commons
respecting petitions, a considerable time elapsed ere
the petition could be presented, but an opportunity
was thus afforded to the deputies of waiting on various
members of Parliament, to whom the objects of the
petition were explained. Mr. Gillon, to whom it was
intrusted, did ample justice to its claims ; and by
means of the petition from Manchester first, and next
by the one from Glasgow, both of which, from the in-
fluential character of the places, and the number of
signatures attached to them, excited great interest in
the house, and drew forth sentiments from many mem-
bers in unison with those expressed in these and simi-
lar petitions, the way was in no inconsiderable degree
prepared for the future discussion of the question with
advantage in the House of Commons.
The deputies deemed it their duty to endeavour to
procure an interview with the Lord Chancellor, by
whom the petition was to be presented to the House
of Peers, which, through the good offices of Mr. Os-
wald, they readily obtained. His Lordship entered
into a long conversation with them, with his charac-
teristic simplicity, clearness, and power; went over
the grievances in detail, on which he unceremo-
niously declared himself; and ascertained their views
respecting what is meant by the separation of
church and state, with their reasons against a compul-
sory establishment of religion, without, however, com-
municating his own mind on this last subject. On
presenting the p
wasevideetaittiloynprtoo the
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gers who are admitted around the throne. The epis-
copal benches showed ten or twelve spiritual digni-
taries. His lordship spoke with great deliberation
and energy about three-quarters of an hour—said he
felt it a high honour to be intrusted with the petition
_expressed his perfect concurrence with the petition-
ers in all matters prayed for, except the separation of
church and state—laid down a principle in the follow-
ing words, which, he said, must be followed out to
all its consequences :—" No man ought to be injured,
or in any way affected, in the possession or enjoyment
of any of his civil rights, by the circumstance of his
differing from other men in matters of religious opi-
nions ;" stated the only two reasons which he held for
a civil establishment of religion—the one, that it is
necessary to repress fanaticism—the other, that it is
required for the religious instruction of the people.
On this last, however, his lordship added these two
remarkable qualifications—that he gave it " only as at
present advised ;" and that, if any thing from holy
writ could be shown him inconsistent with the civil
establishment of Christianity, he must give up the
question. During the whole debate, in which a
good many members of the house joined, the tone of
the house was kind and respectful, with but one ex-
ception, both to the petitioners and to the Dissenters
in general.
In regard to the sentiments of the city members on
the subject of the petition, the deputies must content
themselves with referring to the speeches of those
hon. gentlemen in the House of Commons when the
petition was discussed.
The deputies may be permitted to express their con-
viction that their visit has been connected with the
progress of the voluntary cause in England in another
view. They do not refer to the well-known meeting
of upwards of 300 deputies from the English provinces,
who met in London in the course of last month, in
whose proceedings, not having a commission to that
body, they did not feel it to be their duty to mingle.
But they allude to the highly important fact, that
after a small preliminary meeting first, and next a
larger one, a public meeting, at which at least 1,500
persons were present, was held in London on the
19th ult., when a British voluntary church society,
consisting of persons of various religious denominations,
holding evangelical sentiments, was unanimously
formed, which society is to have its seat in London,
and auxiliary institutions throughout the kingdom.
From the highly influential character of the persons
who have already joined this society, from the prepa-
ration for such a society previously not in London
only, but throughout England, of which the two
following
of
resolutions, passed unanimously at the
meeting
deputies referred to, may be adduced
as
proof That this meeting recognizes the great
leading principle of a full and complete separation of
church and state, as the true basis on which equal
rights and justice can be secured to all classes of his
Majesty's subjects ; and that this meeting recommends
the formation of voluntary church societies in Lon-
don, and throughout the country, for the purpose of
diffusing the great principles maintained by such asso-
ciations among the inhabitants of the United King-
dom ;" from the nature of that establishment by which
the English dissenters are afflicted, unscriptural in its
hierarchy, delusory in some of its most essential rites,
avowedly subject to the King as its head, so entirely
abolishing all scriptural discipline as to confound the
distinction between the church and the world, in its i
spirit and practice intolerant and persecuting, and
now deserted by the majority of English worshippers
and from the known convictions of many in the na-
tional church itself, who are persuaded that their