The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-05 00:00:00

ledged, and they have been admitted as fully as any Pro-
testants holding the opinions of the Established Church to
the employments of the State. I will only take in illustra-
tion the fact, that of three chiefs of the courts of law in
Ireland, two are Roman Catholics. We have been blamed
rather for giving to Roman Catholic prelates titles to which
au Honourable Gentleman has said he thinks them not
entitled. An instance was quoted by the Honourable Mem-
ber for Sheffield, of which till lately I did not know the his-
tory—namely, that in the Chamberlain's department it was
settled that the Roman Catholic Primate and the Roman
Catholic Archbishop of Dublin should have the entrée to the
Castle. That was the act of a subordinate. An announce-
ment was inserted hastily in the Gazette; but the proceeding
was unusual. What I am arguing is, that there really was
no reason on the part of Roman Catholics to complain in re-
gard to the free exercise of their religion, or their admission
to civil privileges. It was in the midst of the occurrences
to which I have alluded, that having had vicars-apostolic
in this country for three hundred years, and nothing but
these during the reign of James 11., when every one of the
principal councillors of the king was a Roman Catholic, it
pleased the Court of Rome to direct that this country should
be divided into bishoprics, with an archbishopric; and the
chief person who was made an archbishop—and Archbishop
of Westminster, of all places—(Cheers)—immediately pro-
claimed to the people of this country, " We govern and shall
continue to govern as ordinary thereof, the counties of Mid-
dlesex, Essex, and Hertford." Was this merely for bodies
of Roman Catholics ? It appears to me that the whole pur-
port of the words is a pretension to rule this country, and
put all its parts under the sole sway of these bishops.—
(Hear, hear.) I might be mistaken in that ; but there
was a person of great eminence in learning and talents
whom we all have to deplore as having left the Pro-
Protestant Church for the Roman Cotholic—l mean Mr.
Newman. Mr. Newman said that there scarcely had been
a single instance of a country which had renounced the
Church of Rome returning to communion with it, but he
was happy to see that an example had occurred in Eng-
land. Ile said the English people were now returning to
obedience to the Holy See.—(Hear, hear.) If the Queen
came down to Parliament as Queeni Mary did, and
said the time was come when the nation should return
to obedience to the See of Rome, and the Houses of
Lords and Commons had conferred with her Majesty and
passed an Act to that effect, there could hardly be a de-
claration going further than that to which I have alluded.
The usual organs in this country and in France of the
Roman Catholics—not the Roman Catholic party, but
the Ultramontane Roman Catholics—maintained that this
was an act of great significance, that it did not only mean
that the archbishop and the 12 bishops were to be created,
but that they were to take the places of the Archbishop of
Canterbury, the Bishop of London, and all the prelates of
the Church of England.—(Hear, hear.) It did appear to me
that we could not pass over in silence such an assumption.
—(Hear, hear.) I ask the Hon. and Learned Member for
Sheffield, if it had been passed over in silence by the people
of England, does he not think we should have had some
step following up what bad been done ? I believe that the opi-
nion which has been given so generally (nearly AO universally)
in England, on the part of the Church of .gland and the
great majority of Protestant Dissenters, will have convinced
not only the Roman Catholics in England, who, I really
believe, wished no such steps taken, but will also con-
vince the Court of Rome that this country of England is
really not a Roman Catholic but a Protestant country, and
that the great body of the people are Protestant.—(Cheers.)
If this be the case, and such the effect of the addresses and
resolutions which have been passed, by that national decla-
ration of itself, we shall have saved ourselves from many at-
tempts on the part of the Pope of Rome to interfere in our
affairs.—(Hear, hear.) I believe the Roman Catholics did
not generally wish this measure. Looking front the Papal
document I find the vicars-apostolic wished to he bishops
with titles of sees in this country, and that certain advan-
tages and privileges which do not belong to vicars-apostolic
would have belonged to them if they could establish them-
selves as bishops of such sees. A very good reason why
vicars-apostolic should wish to claim those titles; but, ge-
nerally speaking, I believe the lay Roman Catholics of this
country—though when the measure was taken they could
hardly repudiate it—neither wished it nor approved of it .at
present.—(Hear.) I am assured by Roman Catholics and
Roman Catholic priests, that such is their feeling, and I
believe we shall now be placed in the position, at all events,
in which we can take measures which shall not only be sa-
tisfactory to Protestants, but satisfactory to loyal Roman
Catholics who wish to preserve their allegiance to the Crown
unimpeached and unimpaired, and who dread the prevalence
of those Ultramontane doctrines which, in every country
of Europe, have proved formidable to every Roman Catholic
who had a regard for freedom of opinion.—( Loud cheers.)
Such, then, is the cause, as I think, of the strong indig-
nation excited in this country, and such the present
opinion of Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. This
Hon. Member for Kent has informed me that, in dealink
with this subject, I should beware of the very strong
sentiment entertained upon it, and that I should not
fall short of the expectationo of the people. Now, I
may say that I shall propose a measure as strong as my
own convictions shall lead me to propose, and not more
so. I cannot yield to any one on that point. I shall not
take any part which I think is wrong, nor shall I introduce
measures that I think go beyond the occasion, or which will
in any way trench on that which I think due to the religious
liberty of all classes of her Majesty's subjects.—(Hear, hear.)
My belief is that the authority of Parliament will be suffi-
cient to make those provisions that are nec,essary to the
settlement of this question, and that the voice which has
been uttered in no uncertain manner from the people
of this country will tend to the maintenance of har-
mony among the different classes of the community ;
but I cannot attempt to go beyond that point which
the occasion seems to require.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Limerick said I had grossly insulted the faith
of my Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, I beg to deny that I
have ever insulted the Roman Catholics. I made sorra', ob-
servations I thought justified with respect to a party in the
Church to which I belong.—(Cheers.) I do not think,
whether those observations were right or wrong, that I am
to be precluded from making any remarks I think just with
respect to a part of my own Church because Roman Catholics
may say those observations are applicable to them. (Hear,
hear.) It is for them to decide whether they think those ob-
servations are applicable. It is sufficient for me to say that
I applied them to those that belong to my own Church, and
that I did so not in words stronger than the bishop of the
diocese in which I reside.—( Hear, hear.) In respect to this
whole matter I shall on Friday state what is the present
state of the question, and what is the remedy I shall have
the honour to propose. I may state that it will be a mea-
sure extending to the whole of the United Kingdom.—
(Cheers.) I know there have been some rumours that this
was not intended, but there never has been any variation of
intention on the subject.—(Hear.) It was always intended
to make the measure apply to the whole of theUnitedKingdow.
Ido not think it necessary now to enter upon the subject. I
do trust that in the future course of our legislation, as well
as in the past course of our legislation, we may be able
to maintain those principles of religious liberty that are so
happily established among us; and I believe that if
there is anything by which we can have displeased Rome it
is that very fact of the civil and religious liberty of this
country.—(Cheers-) It is that of which they disapprove—
it is that which they most loathe and abhor.—(Hear, hear.)
I confess I was at a loss why, in the position of the Roman
Catholics in this country, the Court of Rome should have
taken this course. I should be the last person to attribute it
to any personal ill will on the part of the Pope towards this
country. When I was speaking last year of the revolution
by which his government was overthrown, I lamented that
a man of so benevolent intentions should have had the afflic-
tion of seeing his Minister assassinated as he was going to
the council, and that he himself should have been obliged to
leave the seat of government. I really had compassion for
him, and I do not believe he entertains any illwill to this
country. But that which I had been unable to understand
is somewhat solved by a letter addressed to me by a person
fully calculated to speak on this subject, I mean Lord
Shrewsbury.—(Hear, hear.) He states that there is a party
at Rome who are the enemies of England, and that party is
prevalent at the Court of Rome. if that is the case, and
Lord Shrewsbury is a good evidence of the fact, it goes far
to explain the measure that has been taken.—(Hear ) I trust
better councils will prevail ; but, whatever may be the case
in that respect, and however much we may have reason to
complain of the conduct which has been followed at Rome—
although we might think it right to state that we have been
wronged in this matter, I do not think it would be desirable
for the Ministers of this country to endeavour to make any
treaty of the nature of a concordat with Rome.—(Cheers.)
I am persuaded that we have sufficient means within our-
selves by oar own ability, by our own customs and habits of
discussion, and by the authority of our own Parliament, to
provide against the dangers of any aggression or any
assumption which may be attempted.—(Cheers.) Sir, after
all, as I have stated in the letter which has been so much
objected to, what I look with confidence and reliance to is,
the freedom of this country and our civil and religious
liberties. To that cause and to those principles the people of
this country are deeply attached, and so long as they are so
I have confidence in their being proof against the aggressions
of any foreign powers, or the assumptions of any spiritual
j urisd iction. —( Loud cheers.)

Mr. DISRAELI, lest his silence should be construed into
acquiescence in the views taken by the Noble Lord, felt it his
duty to address a few observations to the House. Like the
Noble Lord, he would address himself to the principal topics
of the Speech. He thought the Government was fully au-
thorised in calling upon the House to congratulate the Crown
on the operations in Germany—not merely because peace
had been maintained and our commerce benefited, but be-
cause we were bound by treaty to interfere in the affairs of
Denmark, and, by so doing, had probably prevented conse-
quences of a very dangerous character. When the Noble
Lord admitted the extreme difficulties under which the agri-
cultural body were labouring, he seemed to be offering almost
an apology to the House for not proposing that fixed duty
which his Hon. Friend near him had somewhat unexpectedly
introduced into the discussion. But, while the Noble Lord
deplored the distress, he (Mr. Disraeli) was astonished that
it bad not occurred to him nor his colleagues to make in-
quiry how it was that a body of men, distinguished by so
much industry, energy, and enterprise as the British farmer,
should be experiencing this constant and continuous depres-
sion while other classes were prosperous and flourishing.—
( Hear, hear.) There must be some deep cause in the system
of this country to produce such exceptional and particular
results. The Noble Lord should remember that in England
we had a financial system that was built up on the energy
and resources of one class of the community in particular,
and and that that class permitted its energies and resources to
taxed because it was thought fit by an artificial.syastveragoe.
legislation to secure to it a market with a came,
that that system of finance, when the advaptages
that had oc-
return ; and he wondered it did not occur to the .iloerelewLiothrd-
drawn, must have occasioned the depression
lletapihnsisteinr eras
authorised year
haeaftre.r)
yHeaerditad atoiontaathtinkpaavnagry
ropaseagr agricultural depression,
an inquiry into the
Queen's Speech with reference
when he was not prepared
s;Pw an evil of an
causes of of that depression.it sr
would boomers the duty of the
rpr:uiesc.eedualotyf,urai
penal importance then .
such paragraphs, but to confine
could not
isfaTtdeulation,hs otnthetyhehegheenveerdaltipieryosperity of
uvinsseir:s‘‘noat placing the question on the
tGhoevneureniTeesnttancootalpgtassor
(11"arWicie whatever. What he intended next
Walley to ask the House to consider the position of the
rteheamcdoyun_try, and
nterest with reference to the whole of our
systeml of taxation, to inquire whether they bad not gradu-
ally established in this country a system, fiscal and other•
wise, which had raised an immense revenue, mainly from the
energies and resources of one class of the productive popula-
tion; whether that class had not been able to endure that
burden, because by artificial means they bad been supported
in the struggle; whether they had not rashly, precipitately,
and without due consideration and preparation, destroyed
that artificial system, and left the artificial burdens
(Hear, hear.) He was not then speaking of local bur-
-1 dens only ; he should view the question in its complete
and comprehensive aspect, and if he did not succeed in dis-
covering what was the cause of that mysterious and con-
tinued depression of agricultural industry which was ad-
mitted to exist, and if he did not indicate the remedies
which were the natural results of that investigation which
he proposed to make, remedies demanded by justice, and
counselled by policy, then he would never again attempt to
support the interest to which he was indebted for the seat
rhich he held in that Ilvtise.—(llear, hear.) it WM on