The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-15 00:00:00

a age which showed that in the aggregate those sums
did press most heavily upon the community, and greatly
exhaust the resources of the country. Whether or not
they should any longer delay putting an end to those
sinecures was a question which he trusted a reformed
Parliament would not entertain. He was perfectly aware
tha: the arguments with which such motions as those of
his Hon. Friend's were met amounted to this—that those
eifEces and emoluments were and ought to be given to

deserving officers, and as rewards for great public ser-
vices, and it would be, no doubt, contended, that it was
much more honourable to the parties -to receive them' in'
the manner in which they were usually conferred than
through the vote of a House of Commons. Now really
the question was not which was the most honourable
mode of conferring such a reward, hut what class of per-
sons were in the habit of receiving those rewards, as it
was said, of public services—was it not the fact that they
were conferred upon the friends and dependents of the
Minister of the day, or connected with persons holding
seats in that House—at least in the House of Commons in
its old state ? It was no reply to say that the present
Ministers were not likely to abuse the power with which
that species of patronage invested them—it was no an-
swer to say that they enjoyed the confidence of the House
of Commons. The question for a Legislature was not whe-
ther this or that Minister might abuse the power, but whe-
ther it was a power liable to excessive abuse? He called upon
the House of Commons to agree to the proposition of his
Hon. Friend, if for no other reason than for the purpose of
its probible effeet upon the public mind in its present ex-
cited state. The adoption of such a proposition ought to
be offered to the public as a security that a reformed House
would proceed with the business of the nation after a dif-
ferent manner than had hitherto marked the decisions of
the representatives of the people. He had ever been of
opinion that the proper mode of rewarding those officers
was not in the mode hitherto practised, but by applica-
tions to the House of Commons, which he was sure a ould
not reject any case of real desert. Upon these grounds,
then, he gave the motion his most cordial and hearty sup-
poi t, and expressed great pleasure in seconding it.
Lord ALTHORP concurred with both the Hon. Mem-
bers who had addressed the House, that they were bound
to put an end to ev- ry expense that was not absolutely ne-
cessary to the sarety and well being of the state. In con-
sidering a motion such as they had then before them, it
was absolute necess ,ry that they should look first at the
merits of the quesrion itself, and then at the time at which
that question was brought forward. The House, he
trusted, would hear in mind that the present motion was
brought forward in a substantive form at a time when
there were no estimates before the House, although upon
the discussion of the estimates was the only suitable time,
as he would contend, when such a motion could with any
propriety he brought under the consideration of the House,
and he v. ry much regretted that then, at the beginning of
a session, the Hon. Member should have thought it proper
to have brought forward such a motion, and not to have
waited for the introduction of the estimates. On the sub-
ject of those so called sinecures, the Hon. Member oppo-
site was well acquainted with his (Lord A.'s) opinion upon
the subject of the offices in question, and he was sure that
many Hon. Members would recollect that he had been,
while on that side of the House, a pretty constant attend.
ant upon all occasions when questions relating to economy
were discussed ; and it was, he presumed, equally well
known that he had been a pretty constant voter on the
side of economy; hut he had never been a friend to the
abolition of those offices. Ile felt then as now, that they
ought not to he abolished. He was aware that the mention
of that fact proved nothing, but the strength of his own
opinion, and that his determination now to oppose the
motion of the Hon. Member fur Middlesex, was in perfect
accordance with the sentiments he had always iraint.ined.
It was perf ctly true that the Hon. Gentlem in said that
he had no intention of dept lying deserving officers of the
rewards which properly belonged to them, and ought to
follow as the natural consequence of their own meritorious
services. In the observations which the Hon. Gentle-
man made on introducing his motion, he seemed to
imply that Ministers had deserted the principles upon
which they formerly acted, and abandoned those maxims
of economy of which they had, heretofore, been the advo-
cates; and he had taunted his Right Hon. Friend, the
First Lord of the Admiralty, with not abiding by senti-
ments which marked the speeches he had delivered while
at the other side of the House. Now, he would inquire
whether or not his Right Hon. Friend could he considered
so very uneconomical a Minister ? He who had effected a
change in the Navy and Admiralty Boards, by which there
was so great a saving of the public money, and such a
diminution of patronage ?—(Cheers.) It had been said by
the Hon. Gentleman opposite that the House would be
perfectly ready at all times to reward cases of merit.
He freely admitted that, for he believed the House of
Commons, like all popular assemblies, to be but
too ready to do so, and would go too far in bestow-
ing rewards upon such public servants as might appear to
them meritorious ; and he felt p •rsuaded that such modes
' of granting public money would lead to more lavish expen-
diture than would ever be attempted by any servants of the
Crown. He objected also to the arguments of the Hon.
Memb r, upon another ground ; it was quite a new con-
stitutional principle for any one to contend that the Howe
should assume to itself one of the prerogatives of the
I Crown. One source of expense, as connected with mi-
litary service, had often been made a subject of comp!aint.
He alluded to the appointment of Lieutenant Governors
in the West Indies. He had much pleasure in being ena-
bled to inform the House that arrangements bad been
• made, which, with reference to that subject, were cal-

culated to give perfect satisfaction, for a great saving
would he effected. A certain number of the smaller
islands were placed under one Lieut.• Governor, by which

a ~aving of Iron seventeen to eighteen thousand pounds a
year had ben made. As to whit had been said respect-
ing the Governor of Berwick, he, it could not be denied,

was a mo•t deserving officer. Sir James Bathurst had
r.-mained in active service until ill health had made repose
necessary. He had been, as was very generally known,
Military Secretary to the Duke of Wellington, through-
out the Peninsular campaigns. He did not deny that
soinetimes the patronage of the military department might
be m;sapp:ied, as any other patronage might ; but of this
he t. It per ectly assured, that it would be at once inexpe-
dient and unconstitutional to transfer the exercise of that
patron ,ge from the Crown to the House of Commons
Before he sat down, lie begged to impress upon the House
the distinction there was between that and other patro-

nage—that was subject to the annual revision of Parlia-
ment, and the proper time for entering upon the discus.
sion of such questions was when the estimates were regu-
larly before the House. Though opposed to the second
of the resolutions of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he
could not so much object to the first, which was merely
declaratory of much that nobody could deny—he should
therefore not propose that the motion be negatived, but
content himself with moving the previous question.
Colonel DAVIES declared himself perfectly ready to
support a motion for improving the condition of retired
military offieers.
Mr. BARCLAY (as we understood) concurred in the
motion, and gave it his most cordial support, begging his
Majesty's Government not to depart from the plan of eco-
nomy which they hail s no'dy commenced.
Lord GEORGE LENNOX agreed with the first reso•
lution, but could not support the second. Ile admitted
'bat his own ref itive, the Duke of Gordon, had a regi•
in nt, the First Rayals, which had been now 21 years in
India ; but that, he contended, was no abuse of the pa-
tronage most properly vested in the Crown.—(Mr. O'Con-
nell cheered, as did Mr. Hume, and the Noble Lord
s erred to understand the one Hon. Gentleman as cheering
in disapprobation or dissent, and the other as expressing an
opposite sentiment.) He went on to say that they might
se tle teeir differences as they might, and concluded by
maintaining the expediency and justice of not abolishing
those offices.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that he and his Honourable
Friend (tbe Member for Middlesex) would readily agree
on any question of economy. In his opinion, the com-
mand of a regiment twenty-four years in India, po-sessed
by a nobleman of large fortune resident in this country,
was a grievous abuse. Members of Parliament were sent
to that House to to,tain cheap government, and that they
should labour to obtain as the greatest of blessings at any
sacrifice. He was astonished that M.nisters who pro-
fe,sed economical principles, should oppose the m tion be-
fore the House. By so cluing they sanctioned the granting
of public money for no service, which never should be
granted upon a false pretence. If an officer deserved well
of his country, let him conic before Parliament, and let
it reward him either by the grant of money, or by an
appointment to office. Tilat was the proper way, since
the distribution of the pu:ilic purse was the privilege of
hat House.--(hear.) The Crown had the prerogative
of notnina.iitig to office; he did not wish to touch that
prerogative when he said that the distribution of the pub,
lie purse belonged to that House. He thought that the
question should not be deferred, as the Noble Lord oppo-
site seemed to wish. It was a general one, and no time
was fitter than the present to decide upon it. This ques-
tion of rewards si mild be decided upon principle, and not
when some individual ease was brought forward, when the
feelings of some particular person might be hurt—,t lien it
might be a case of commieseration, and when sympathy
might interfere with conscientious voting. They
had now to decide. uron a general question, and
they ought to lay down without delay a bread
principle.—(Hear.) He thought it would be surprising