The Sun.
London, England, 1851-12-31 00:00:00

heif
You m suasitd
dhue-citouulrd nleoutvde,o it forthagti,Thee
you
3
uslidaltat
shall •
u.e."—(Hear, hear.)
harebeirt.)raryThea Was that right,
ruethworaistyn o scl so on
n. labour with regard to the price to be paid
(e)n
ne xtehre-
; the man was never asked his opinion, and if
ejected was told that the employer i° ion,
not
dictated to"—he was to be the sole judge.--(Elear
ear.) The gentlemen of the press were. before hitu
they knew whether compositors were thus treated:
No ; they had a book price. If the employers would
establish a board, and allow the workmen to establish
their board, and let the question be settled between
them, there would be no objection to piecework; but
as it was it gave the men less than their ordinary. wages. The men would abide by the decision of in-
dependent parties.—(Hear, hear.) Let persons be
appointed whose whole soul was not wrapped up in
commercial speculation—men
who had identifie
themselves not merely with the commercial progress but also with the progress of the industrial classes—,
such men as Lord Shaftesbury, Lord Carlisle, Lord
R. Grosvenor, and the Hon. A. Kinnaird.—(Hear,
hear.) By their judgment the men would be willing
to be governed.—(Hear, hear.) As to the charge
of being opposed to the introduction of machinery,
there was no class of men who more promoted its
introduction • they were continually improving ma-
chinery.—(Hear.) Let it not be said that " the
Council of Seven were dictating terms." The move -
nignt was instituted by the meeting of sixty delegates
at Birtningharn, in September, 1850, who passed re-
solutions deprecating piece-work and overtime as
systematic practices; circulars were sent out to
ascertain the opinions of the society; and out of
12,000, only 16 votes came in for those practices.—
(Hear, hear.)
,Employers said the proceeding was
dictatorial. If
a question arose in the workshop, and
siN
a d, ption went to the employers, they were
gene-
rally ~...barged; and if men not connected with the
workshop were sent, they were asked what bu-
siness they bad to interfere ?—(Hear, hear.) If
employers were so exclusive, and refused to hear
their workpeople and listen to their grievances,
they must expect that, with o
ppression after op-
pression, and petty despotism of foremen and ma-
nagers, perhaps unknown to those employ"—
(Um-, hear)—if they treated it all with eonteipt
'and' disdain, the feelirig
farm
olekisitaltetWr 111
known in some tangible form, as it was doing new._—
(Hear.) The men were told they intended to strike
on the Ist. Nothing was further frorn their intention.
—(Hear.) There was no such thing contemplated
in the north.—(Hear.) It was only intended that the
workman should exercise his right of leaving when
his day's labour was done; and if the employers said
any man might do so, it was all that was required.—
(Hear, hear.) If any man thought proper to work
overtime, let him do so.—(Hear, hear.)
Whether
the employers would close their works on the 10th
he could not say; but after this explanation they
would incur a very heavy responsibility in throwing
so many men upon the poor-rates, or refusing them
, relief at the risk of anarchy and confusion.—(Hear,
hear.) The men knew they were in the right, and
were willing to
be guided by public opinion. They
were ready to submit the matter to any impartial
tribunal.—(Cheers.)
Mr. R. BRADDON then addressed a few words to the
meeting, and moved—
" That, having heard the statement made upon the
part of the council of the Amalgamated Society, this
meeting is perfectly satisfied that the acts and intentions
of the council have been publicly misrepresented, and
that it has never demanded of the employers either dis-
continuance of the use of machinery of any kind, or tho
discharge of the workmen employed at machines."
Mr. G. Usnea, seconded the motion, and dwelt upon
the extreme evil of protracted labour.
Mr. ERNEST JONES then attempted to address the
meeting, but there was a very strong and general
opposition to his being heard. He said he bad studied
the relations of labour and capital, and he thought be
ought not to be put down ; it was necessary the men
should understand their position and their streegth.
Mr. NEWTON appealed to him on the score of the
adverse feeling of the meeting, and the danger that
their enemies would make a handle of his presence.
Mr. JONES retorted that he did not consider his
presence so remarkably objectionable or disgraceful.
He was proceeding to make some remarks on the
results of machinery upon labour, but the storm of
groans and hisses was so overwhelming that he was
obliged to retire.

Mr. J. Comas said he agreed with Mr. Newton on
the evils of the practice of systematic overtime, but be
thought the present extra payment for it was a suf-
ficient check, and that there ought not to be a claim
to double time ; and he considered that the question
was settled with the masters in 1836, and that the men
who were then in London could not depart from that
agreement without a breach of faith. He would move
an addition to the resolution-to that effect.—(Hisses.)
He could not agree in Mr. Newton's statement as
to deputations to the masters ; he had himself been
above twenty years in the employ of Messrs. Miller
and Ravenbill, and had been to then on deputations
many times, and, instead of being discharged for it,
bad always been treated with kindness and with re-
spect due to his position.—(llear, hear.) As to piece-
work, he had worked piecework, but had never been
compelled to take it ; when he had disliked the terms
he had been allowed to do the work upon common
daytime.
Mr. lioskrNs seconded the amendment, and said
there was work which could not be done except by
overtime.—(Hear, hear.) Systematic overtime was
doubtless an evil, and nine-tenths of the practice—in
fact, the system—might easily be abolished. He
could not think the demand for double time just.
The amendment was then put and negatived, and
the original motion carried by a large majority.
Mr. HEMM, of Manchester, who said he came for-
ward as a witness, confirmed Mr. Newton's account
of the Oldham dispute, and said the origin of it was
that Messrs. Hibbert and Platt had purchased a ma-
chine for boring, and the men were afraid the work
was going to be taken out of their hands, and the
machine worked by men not brought up to the
trade ; but that led to other points being also
raised. But it was entirely a dispute between Messrs.
Hibbert and Platt and their workmen. He would add
that, in Manchester, the men decided to do away
with overtime before the council came to the resolu-
tion ' • and a great portion of the employers agreed
with the men, and had done away with it, though
there were some few exceptions.—(Hear, hear.)
There would be no objection to piecework if it was
carried on honourably ; but a man was not asked whe-
ther he could do it at the price named, but told he
must do it or leave.—(Heart) If men managed, by
excessive labour, to earn more than regular wages by
it, they had been offered so much less the next time for
the same job.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. POTTS moved—
" That this meeting is fully convinced that neither the
Executive Council nor the members of the Amalgsmatud
Society of Engineers, &c , contemplate a strike on the
lit of January, 1852; and that the assertions put for-
ward to that effect are entirely untrue."
He proceeded to comment upon the conduct of some
of the speakers et the meeting of employers of labour
on and complained that when the
woelLdneeosfdY last,
one 3 loafihem left him in 1849, on his pro-
posing
a reduction of wages, he sent notice to other
employers, that they might not take them on. An-
other of these gentlemen refused to remove to a dis-
tance from the engineering department some lead
works, which were injurious to health. If employers
paid so little attention to the welfare of their men, they
ought not to demand from the men entire obedience to
their will, nor could they expect from them anything
beyond what was their duty to themselves—self-pro-
tection.
Mr. W. BROWN seconded the
carried unanimously. motion, and it was
Mr. NEWTON said the soceity had appealed to the
public, and would wait their decision. If the em-
ployers were willing
to Settle the question araieabl9
by proper negotiation and with a regard to justice to
men
all parties, the h
Would meet them honourably,
moderately.—(Hear, refor explained that the society was one instituted
un-
impeachable obj
work by the ects, to make allowances of
to members
thrown out of
badnesstrade, or
fairly, and ar.) He then
illness. It was an amal-
incapacited by „dent or
gamation of p ed members in 1848 and 1849.
36,000/. to "nem)"
s"Beve—,...4 societies, one of which paid
, Even then members were working over-
) He might just mention that on one
of the
ou al
d i vi
reduce
when trade was bad and a reduction
had to be trade,
them
the manager asked the men whether
be h
n numbers or in hours of
w s
k, and they chose the latter, dividing the
reducedor amount among all the men.—(Hear, hear.)
railways,
a
When the objects of the society were known,
the public would feel disposed rather to encourage
them than to press against them, so long as they kept
within proper bounds, and used no threats or intimi-
dation, and that they never would do.— (Hear, bear.)
In Co large a body, isolated individuals might conduct
themselves improperly, but the society repudiated
anything of the sort.—(lleac, hear.) So acting, they
i the opinion of the Attorney-General, that they
were acting lawfully,—(Hear, hear )
A vote of thanks to the press for attending the
1 meeting, and to the chairman,
Th closed the proceeeings.

distrtoibubteeu
purportinglettererewls
i si
snu e thea
fofthae
members of the society to their employers, in which,
after commenting
upon the evils of overtime and
piecework, it was stated,—
" The executive council have decided to advise the
trade generally to discontinue the inroot,mbe nnaincoepYo
practice of systematic
overtime and piecework after the 31st of December,
1851, and in those cases where overtime is really neces-
sary, in cases of break-downs, or other accidents, all
time so worked over to be charged and paid for at the
rate of double time."

The Engisb Government, it is stated, have just
granted a charter for a steam company to run vessels between
(iitlway and Lialifm