The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-11 00:00:00

the Dutch from having suffered, that not one commercial
failure had been the consequence in Holland. He would
no longer trespass on the patience of the House, but
would proceed to make his motion, hoping that the Noble
Lord would throw some light upon the subj..ct.
Hen. Alderman concluded by moving, as an amendment
to the motion for going into the Committee of Supply, fur
an account of all vessels detained under the Order in
Council of the sth of November last, laying an embargo
on Dutch vessels in our ports ; as also for copies of all
applications that had been made to the Privy Council for

the release of such vessels, &c.
Mr. YOUNG seconded the amendment, and expressed
his entire concurrence in the commercial view which the
Hon. and worthy Alderman took on the subject ; although
he must in candour add, that he did not agree with the
Hon. and Worthy Alderman in his political opinions re'
specting it. He was quite satisfied that the political siting
tion of his ALijesty's Ministers, with reference to Holland,
had been one of great difficulty ; and that they had had no
alternative but to compel the King of Holland to accede
to the terms proposed to him. But, concurring in the
expediency of his Majesty's Ministers' object, be differed
from them as to the expediency of the means which they'
adopted to secure it, especially in laying an embargo,
which was much more injurious to English than to Dutch
commerce.
Lord PALMERSTON, as it was not his intention to
refuse the motion, should not go so minutely into the de-
tails of the subject as be might otherwise be induced to do.
He was quite willing to admit that all restrictions on com-
merce were inconvenient. But if it were admitted as

sound argument that, whatever political necessity might
require, commerce ought not to be subjected to any incon-
venience, that argument would be operative not only
against embargo, but against war; and if, in deference to
that argument, we were to seetiice our political interests,
the time would soon come when we should he oalled upon
on the same ground to sacrifice our political independence.
The question, therefore, was, not whether the embargo
on Dutch vessels had been inconvenient to our conenerae
(although even on that point tie statements of the Hon,
and Worthy Alderman were much exaggerated),
but whether there had been a sufficient political rret-
ttve to justify his Majesty's Government in hav-
ing recourse to a measure which, though one of coercioel
to Holland, and inconvenience to the commerce of flare
country, was nevertheless less in severity than war, to
which they might have been entitled to resort. Now the
question, whether the state of matters between this country
and Holland was such as to justify the proceeding adopted
by his Majesty's Government, was so mixed up with the
consideration of all the transactions between the two coun-
tries for the last two years, that to go into it would in-
volve a much wider field of discussion than that into
which the Hon. and Worthy Alderman probably intended
to enter. But, if any Hon. Member would give itiineelf
the trouble of perusing the documents which he (Lord
Palmerston) bad had the honour of laying on the table, he
would be satisfied that the state of the negetietien between
this country and Holland at the time was such, that his
Majesty's Government could not, consistently with the
honour, the engagements, and the interests of this country,
avoid taking the step which they had taken. The refusal
of the King of Holland to consent to reasonable terms his
rejection of the treaty of which the House was cognizant,
at the same time watching his opportunity to reconquer
Belgium, not only justified his Majesty's Government,
but rendered it their imperative duty to do what they had
eon..; ee ...Teething still more severe. Having two courses
before them, he thought -4 been right in preferiiiag
the milder. If they had chosen the moie seeeae, eel tee
commercial inconveniences described by the. Honourable
and Worthy Alderman would have been iefinitely greater;
and others, which his Majesty's Government were very
anxious to avoid, would have been added to them. The
Hoo. and Worthy Alderman had talked of suppoftlns
the weak against the strong. It was on that principhf
that Isis Majesty's Government had proceeded. Holland
was, unquestionably, stronger then Belgium. We had
interfered to prevent war between Holland, and, therefore,
were not liable to the odium of aiding the strong against
the weak. All argument to the contrary, was founded
on the sophistry that the dispute was not between Hol-
land and Belgium, but between Holland and England.
The Hon. and Worthy Alderman expressed himself at a
loss to understand how the present state of the negotiation
between the two countries justified the continuance of the
embargo. The House would, of course, not expect him
(Lord Palmerston) to explain the precise state of the ne-
gotiation at the present moment. That lie should not be
justified in doing. All which it was consistent with his
duty to state was, that his Majesty's Government were
anxious to relieve the commerce of this country and of
Holland from the pressure of the measure at the earliest
moment at which they could do so, consistently with
the just objects which they had in view, and with the
national honour. The Hon. and Worthy Alderman was
mistaken in supposing that the pressure was confined to
the trade of this country, and that it was not felt by the
trade of Holland, He (Lord Palmerston) did not mean
to say that our shipping interests did not feel inconve-
nience from the disruption of intercourse which the em-
bargo had occasioned ; although it was well known, that
when one channel of commercial enterprise became closed,
another was immediately opened ; and that, as the Baltic
trade last year was narrowed by circumstances, it this
year afforded additional employment for our vessels. Still
he did not dispute that the embargo in question must
necessarily have occasioned some inconvenience to our
commerce. But the Hon. and Worthy Alderman had
proved too much. He had stated the annual averages of
British manufactures and Colonial produce exported to
Holland at 4,600,0001. But, then, he said the embargo
did the Dutch no injury, for they had nullified its effects
by coming to our ports and carrying on their trade in
neutral vessels. If so, it was clear that they also nullified
its effects on British trade, for in the ships which come to
this country covering the commerce of Holland, the
manufactures and produce of this country must necessarily
:se exported. He acknowledged that the measure was
inconvenient to English commerce; but he did not think
that it was so inoperative on the other party as the Hon.
and Worthy Alderman represented. Until the object in
view, however, was accomplished, he could not give the
Honourable and Worthy Alderman any hope that his
Majesty's Government would be disposed to relax on the
subject. The Honourable and Worthy Alderman had ad-
verted to the various interpretations which had been put
upon the Orders in Council, and had stated that, in some
instances, the release of vessels laden with perishable com-
modities had been unjustly refused. He (Lord Palmer-
ston) could state cases of another kind in which appli-
cations had been made, on the plea that the vessels con-
tained perishable commodities, when in fact they contained
no such thing. Would the House believe that application
had been made for the release, on the ground of her having
a perishable cargo, of a Dutch vessel detained at Swansea,
whose cargo turned out to be iron ?—(A laugh.) The
Honourable and Worthy Alderman said that the greater
part of the Dutch ships detained in our ports were insured
by British insurers. He (Lord Palmerston) believed that
he should be borne out in the declaration, that the insur-
ance by an Englishman, of a foreign ship against war with
this country, or detention or capture by this country, was
illegal—was contrary to the constitution and the law,—
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Hon. Members
cheered that observation ; but he did not hesitate to assert,
that if his Majesty, acting on the suggestion of his respon-
sible advisers, subject of course to the opinion of Parlia-
ment, thought it necessary for the honour of the country
to have recourse to hostile operations against another
State, it was illegal for any British subject to interpose
and throw his shield over the subjects of that State. He
did not feel it necessary to detain the House further. The
constitutional question bad been fully discussed on a former
evening, when the subject was brought before the House
by the Right Hon. Member for Tamwortb, and he thought
of
he (Lord Palmerston) then succeeded in establishing,
that the imposition of the embargo was, under the circum-
stances of the case, conformable not only to the law of
this cTtunt
law
under of
the
consideration
The
form
in whichthe House, would afford bim an opportunity of offering
further explanation, should any circumstances occur to
trhye, bqutuest to
ion the general
com e
render it desirable ; at present it was unnecessary for him
to say more.
Mr. LYALL said that it was impossible the shipping
which was thrown out of employment by the embargo
could find employment in any other direction. In spite
of the sneers of the Noble Lord, he could not help feeling
a sort of compassionate sympathy for our ancient ally. it
was impossible to allow mere considerations of commercial
interest altogether to efface the recollection of our former
connection with that country—of how much we were
indebted to the collateral ancestors of the present Kiog:!
Holland. The determination of this Monarch appearrrhed
to increase with the difficulties of his situation.
h when
that of hie predecessor aboutofitOZ g
XIV. by land, and
he was pressed by the forces
territories being at the time
by this country by sea,
his
the' English ambassador, who
nearly inundated, replied to
ry would be ruined, " I will avoid
told him that big count
my country ruined by perishing in
conduct of the King of Holland forcibalyr.rae_moi,n,dved.4him o f
admitted, however, that the cases
were not altogether parallel.—(Hear, hear.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL begged to say a fey-.
theth Idei:frdaickee.o,f, seHeineg