The Sun.
London, England, 1834-05-10 00:00:00

-- : ,
selireethe3r4Ould adopt such measnres as might promiff
'o be of a beneficial practical efT,,J. and had instarcct.
- ,ases iii.tvWeli a whole;on sv:iteni •,.' 7,9 r 1a.13 jl::,i I—,
otrodusted. by the a,sidttity mid p.-....i ~i.ce,",ertit;. 1 ~,,
uthoritics. fie admitted these fie:', lue'in'tlOin :-, li
hought they were but an additioriel pa,of in favour of Ile
iecessity for some general measure of the kind now before
he house. The object of the present bill was to raise th
noral as well as the economical- condition of the labouring.
lasses: Some hon. members bad declared that they di,.
lot see how that object was to be effected by, it. Ni';'w i•
vas evident that inasmuch as the application, for paris'
relief was discouraged, the- labourer must- bear a ,mor:
ndependent and a more respectable charac'er. The hon.
nember for Wiltshire,. in allusion to the difficulties of the
-had quoted the names of a number of persons o
eminence and great ability who had attempted, but failed
n such a project. No man seas more conscious than
liras& of the difficulties with which this question was en-
:timbered ; and so convinced was he of them that he
thought no one could hope to succeed in avoiding their
anless he had previously obtained ' that vast fund o'
information upon the
,subject which had been the.
Ned of the commission recently appointed to pro-
cure.
oileni:d(tmhte(rmi
ioqi Htpndhpuoeerci ep
opposition
rdibastlp.rtens.
principle
hear, hea r . ) It was not at all surprising
chat members unprepared- with this fund of material
o
l
should have hitherto failed in attempting to legislate upor,
the subject. (Hear, hear.) He now came to a few parti-
cular observations upon what had fallen in the course of the
debate. The hon. member for the city of London hag
stated, as to the power proposed to be invested in the com-
:nissioners to be appointed under this bill, that if ono frac-
tion was given more than was necessary for carrying the.
tpartoevnisiaownsayo.f the bill
rhfietrotle)ffeacgt,wthdaitufratbctaitonopoinuigoluit:toaubd,.
therefore, when the bill came before a committee of the
house he should certainly not oppose any diminution .;)
those powers which might be proposed; provided it did not
.4o to such an extent as to invalidate the principle of the
bill.. ( Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Lambeth hat.
firuogmgetshteeddetchisei 0 proprietynof
the
cot
mani
ssaioppenerllsar
aCtluhr Court ofm must
tppszt .
hat he did not feel inclined to oppose that proposal. Hi
would also be happy to meet the inclinations of another
hon. member in doing away, as' far as possible, with the
.namunities of indemnity proposed to be granted to the
commissioners in their official capacity ; and at the same
time that he thought that, in cases where they might
be acting strictly in execution of the provisions of this
act, they should be protected. ( Hear, hear.) If actions
against them were permitted under the circumstances.
it might be productive of great and unnecessary
vexation and litigation, as attorneys in every counts
town would be constantly taking advantage of it to harap,
the
.Commissioners in the exercise of their duty. Another
hon. member, in allusion to the extensive power which
the Commissioners were to hold, had particularly allude d.
amongst others, to their authority for appointing the sal,
ries, &c., of the overseers. It should be recollected .ha ,
whatever might have been said to the contrary- on h
subject, this bill did not vest the power of appointing i..,
overseers in the Commissioners. An hon. member who
had made some observations panegyrising the present sys-
tern of select vestries in some parishes, had nevertheless not
advanced anything against the principle of paid overseers;
and he (Lord Althorp) did not think it expedient that the
Commissioners, having authority to direct the duties of 1
the overseers, should not also be intrusted with the pay-
rnent of those services. He now came to the principle of
enabling the Commissioners to make laws and general
rules. He would ask, notwithstanding the objections
which had been raised against it, whether this was so new
a principle as to be objectionable on that account ? Was
not the power now vested in the magistrates in appoint-
ing the allowance scale almost tantamount to it ? He
was perfectly ready, however, to take into consideration
any objection which might be raised upon this point whon
the bill came before the Committee. (Hear. ) He must be
allowed to observe, however, that the house should not
come to legislate on a matter of this kind without giving
some credit to the Commissioners or other officers to be
appointed for not seeking to exceed their legitimate au-
thority. ( Hear, hear.) An hon. member who had lately
addressed the house, had borne testimony to the efficient
alterations which had been effected in various parishes at
different times, and under different systems of manage-
ment.gsocmiv.,,,itunacase,
eeooiprwndwnesnpnedta
s,v
4morc.t.arhaa: Those
favour of a measure of this kind, which would appoint a
body of men capable
widi,ndtitTohefhdemffiohreiirceeocntwidisuhnoivestigate and appoint the course
to he adopted in the various cases which presented them-
sAvs-s under the existing system. No one legislative act
could be passed applicable to every particular case ; what
would be a proper course to adopt in one district, would
be directly the reverse in another.. With respect to the
union of parishes, it had been suggested as an improve-
ment, that a scale should be adopted as to the extent of the
districts. The hon. member for 3larvlebone had declared
that there existed no sort of abuse in that parish. He
had no doubt but the affairs of that parish were under-
going a wholesome course of improvement, yet he could
aardly think that there were not some points in which
it might vet be improved, by such a measure as that
before the louse. Some gentlemen had expressed alarm
at the
;rembuotvalit of power erappfreoarmedththe hhaimnds
thofatt,hesoselefacrt
from the useful services of the vestries being impaired,
they would be increased when the .b.ll came into ope-
ration. It should be recollected, that already under
flic existing state of the law the magistrates had a very
;Teat compulsory pow& over the vestry authorities. He
to the proposed workhouse system, upon which
such misrepresentation appeared to exist. It was said that
;he intention of the bill
modifications,l%vv i eGtthlemihentnod
diminish
sithelitvgetwosaamuehohp.:
nhiektpabencon.iilmailllbistldyilgyhhi(e:dhngHtsiutttditohi preventhre%oll.lgeaeoNehca.
ing
of relief out of the workhouse walls. Now the fact
was, there was no one clause to that effect, but, on the con-
trary, a passage expressly declaring that, in cases of emer-
lency relief might be given out of doors. The commis-
sioners were certainly to have the power oafitiyohe nratllhi:y,eoo;nt
oh.au recommendingenrtred;un‘d ._tiflee,osloeoenr.
.he building of workhouses, but, so far from all relief of
-idiNtaho.unhmeNtsa'iireeitorst.her description being prevented by the bill, he really
systemihlee ph believedooonor
f. thatlinraelcel
iisonftsi
ov,
member
eohfni
toedr
di
matter
‘1
balcameatetre;
rakt
obhf
foae itr,rseleiyntatc,ifnedemt
aoasenenpodtlt
oiet,seweitmhewdh,
aatllprleogprisileattyioin6tad
31
ol ann. wouldmember
r l lal. confined,yl ebo
appeared, had denominated the, present lawihtboefrmseesotptsle.teemstatenyotPtntsoatst
an
ode remainswbi e
bo f i
tfewu.
was
sal proposedties.
to (Hear.)
introduce,W
hieoun,oteoitnbleyrcoinnsiFde;eld it superior tol that already in opera-
dimeeearpon
line
smto
irtatueLde c, omt
however,oas eiffi itself, but
it might
tmbai
gtthhetaotublidet
,vasbiboee seuee.
susceptible
oncehtnrlgier
etodo
ft
choesn;osumis
rehfenai
%si,daievdebi
achlsffiacihoi
dyeneorepoasotitrsaniocih.rtentoto)eia,cymetvnyhssa yomaessijooyrhiunprejudiced
well-
supported Gt.
stedttuhuetllhoei :tell l
should
be
these circumstanieh:lttcctinohoeoenoul.ensnTft,sdethe had no doubt that the second read-
ing of the bill
utwouldelrdob fe bg
great
be carriedeeart
esult
importance,
ob fy this
largeis
eorfteeurmi
ut majority. i ty
I.r.
eii
ii
orHeinne:
ashopitedwassucahmwaot
sentation and clamour which had been raised agaimndsiii
jtqhu.(eayr
determinationt e rsout
considered ono
ttdoot doors,
ben, thatdepart
faithful tohue
thathd
iousesheaa
rsehegooeumoil should show
tfhroemir
lISCeaArii.)LETT said though there were someepcarobraitlil.:
cLunldarisnirneswp-heciethtohethdeiffaeurtedhorfritoimes ttohehpero:eisstieodnsionfththe
missioners, and the proposed alterations in the law of
settlement and the workhouse system, he would vote for.
he second reading. With respezt to the commissioners,
he was decidedly opposed to the union of legislative and
~xecutive power which it was proposed to repose in them.
This was a delegation of authority, a sort of tinperium in.
unperio, which he )could never bring himself to allow.
The house then divided—

Ayes 319
Noes
Majority 299
_ . _

The bill was then read a second time, and on our re-ad-
mission to the gallery we found
Lord ALTHORP on his legs, moving that it be com-
mitted on Monday next, which, after some observations
from Mr. HUME, was agreed to.