The Sun.
London, England, 1851-07-01 00:00:00

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T.l SUN, . LONDON,

__nen_
I for
factory
m that opinion upon this sole, and to me perfectly satis-
e so ex . .
abl and ground, that I cannot believe that a financier ao
law hld perieneed, ifhe • had contemplated that
e Bna be a permanent law, would have framed it
at his
dpir: a principle which I hope I may induce the house
ells" is one so much to be deprecated. I am not
about to entrap the House into a barren discussion as to the
comparativemerits of direct and indirect taxation. In
these days we are too apt perhaps to indulge in such clis-
-21-,sknia I feel persuaded myself that it you have to raise
els a country like England a
revenue of the amount which
We at Present do raise, it would be quite impossible to ()b-
-eam such results by adhering strictly to any particular mode
of raising our public revenue. [ feel convinced that the
greeater the number, the more various the means of supply,
rent
..greater will be the facility of raising the revenue ; and
far irom laying down any pedantic rule to be adhered to as
re mode of raising taxes in nreference to another, all thatf
the Exche •
whatever form
it y quer is, to beware that no tax,
sluts- take,. whether that of a customs duty, an excise
n or a direct impost,nature be excessive.
33„,althea
_ ems esa
s I will not enter into a discussion as to the
fs:e. parative merits of direct or indirect taxation, of this I
i, d persuaded, and I can hardly doubt that a majority of
this House will the propoeition, that if
direct taxation is sanction c
formtien
a considerable part, or
even the more considerable part, of our financial
System, it is of th
utmost importance that the
principle of that (lir% utmaxation should be a right'
one
. (Hear.) New lec cannot for a moment agree that
tn. principle of direct'should be other than the principle of indirect taxation.
of o inion, as I think
the highest a taxation. I am. p .
'taxation
should be as authorities are of opinion, that direct .
as indirect
taxation.--~general, not to say as universal,
been meat%)belving that that must have
the opine nthe very fact that he
established in an of Sir Robert Peel,
narrow a basis, that
he established sis tax upon income on so
considerable a scale, con-
vinces me thatexemptions on so
he had no other
than in his use of that impostb.
et
than It temporary o•ect—ethat he had no other o se t
12! 'art that which he expressed in this House,
which,andtlea
its on proposition, and in the renewal for
the
at its original proposition, he prepared the House and _
CcrisialletrY, he was perfectly justified in adopting it with that
12-nYnrary object • I hardly know whether it is ne-
pet in view.
"are', or whether on this occasion I am justified in even
touching upon the consequences of adopting any other
Principle
nniPle in the application of direct taxation. In fact, if
'' come forward and tell us that the essence of direct taxa-
tion is that es should be limited to a class, that it should be
founded ilesson large exemptions, your impost is not so much
a direct tax as a " forced contribution."— (Loud cries of
.s Bear hear.") It is a tax upon capital. It is a con-
stant invasion upon the fund which is employing labour,
an if carried to any excess, or continued for any length
ande erne, its inevitable consequences must, in my opinion, be
"ie impoverishment and misery of the community.—
I(Cheers. ) I look then upon the policy which was pursued
hy Sir Robert Peel with respect to the income-tax
when
he introduced it, and when, in accordance with tl'ie first
speech he made on the subject, he three years after conti-
nued it, to have been perfectly justifiable, because his object
being a temporary object, he had then only to consi 'er the
Percy and the expediency and the mode of attaining his
fasiPnrary purpose in a manner the most easy and the most
easible. But I must call the attention of the House to the
fact that the present Ministry, in making a tax upon in-
°anus the basis of their finance, were not actuated by the
3_ani4a principles as Sir R. Peel, and did not contemplate the
Lame_ e use of the instrument which they introduce to our no-
xresen With a candour which I cannot too much praise, and
eie h I fully acknowledge, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
'when he asked for a continuance of the income tax for three
.years,w never for a moment intimated that his view of that
o'in,
the
that it was a temporary one. Had the Chancellor
"le Excheque forward proposed the renewal of
the tax for r come and
whether h three years for the fourth time, I still doubt
direct • e would have been justified in framing a great
impost which had
much
longer in d '
and which Was
than was contemplated by its originator,
though Was again to be continued for a considerable
a definite t •ofthe Chancellor
of the , erm—l doubt the policy
eiamin,, .Exchequer, even,under these _circumstances, in
S useaX u • the limited b• on which
he did fr• Pen income on am
a I
amt its Bat when the Minister of Finance tells us—
time for another to renew years tax upon income for the fourth
have another three ," and with a frankness which I '
on informs us at het same time that we
on
(v 4.1 contemplate the term when we shall be able to carry
fit : financial arrangements without the aid of such an
e_tr,t,eand framed in such a manner, then I say that that
_ , !1. period when the Minister should have come forward, '
tug: If it had been his conviction that a large direct tax upon
he should have laid down the just principle upon which such
ane_amount of direct taxation could alone, justifiably be ap-
plied to the pro h
(Hear h perty and t e industry of this country.—
al ' ear-) I may be told, as I have been told
m
Ce that day, that there was no acknowledgment on the
Bpart of the Government that in their financial csn-
timplation the income-tax was to be a perpetual tax.
the t Jospeak in the memory of Gentlemen on both sides of
u n re. and I am sure they will justify my statement,
achievementsin which the Chancellor of the Exchequer in-
dulged lged n, which he enumerated to an amazed audience, and
completion of which alone was indicated by him as the
term
When this country could be free from this impost.—
(Hear, hear.) Sir, I he t have great confidence in the vitality of
t_ existing Government.---( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The
dangoers which they have successfully encountered, the ca-
phes which they have evaded, and the crises which
n theylal_ave baffled - all indicate the possession, if not of im-
'Pretel,eyet of enduring qualities.—(Laughter, and cheers.)
let% Ira an assure the Noble Lord and his colleagues, though
that I I duty to sit on this side of the table—(A laugh)
they
tiny recog • th • s which
they oec recognise their personal claims to the pos.
views as
nleen--(Laugter.) Sanguine as may be their own
‘,...s
even
to the term of their administration, I do not think
reEn'em en the Chancellor of the Exchuer could have con:
'Lilted—prolong' d be his tenure of office —that it
Woutu
slimeb . De as may .
compr e his fortune to achieve all tho objects, eth ac-
-lat of hd d and an to
the usu ve ich he has lai own
country as the condition of terminating the tax on property
and income as it is now framed. Well, Sir, I think I may
truly conclude that the tax, as now framed, is a permattent
feature in the financial schemes of her Majesty's Ministers.—
es ear') Now, I beg the. House to observe that in anything I
ave said lam making no objection to a tax on property
and income. What I am directing the attention of the
Ilene to is this.—and I think it of the utmost importance
that this proposition of direct taxation is to form a more
considerable portion of our financial system for the future
than it has heretofore done, that direct taxation should be
founded upon the true principle, and not upon the false one;
upon the principle which, in the long run, will be advan-
tageous to the community, and not upon one which, if it suc-
ceed, will in my opinion be most pernicious; that the prin-
ciple which we apply to direct taxation shall virtually be
the same as that which we apply to indirect, and that in its
application we should attempt to make it general, not to
say universal. - (Hear, hear.) That is the only point that I
am now enforcing upon the attention. and, I hope, the con-
viction of the House. It will be observed, then, as far as
the financial statement of the Minister this year is con-
cerned, as far as we have it yet submitted to our
analysis, that it was founded upon a false basis,
that it assumed that the income.tax, as at pre-
sent framed, should be permanent ; and upon the
assumption of its permanence, or of its continuance, the
surplus estimated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
depended. I shall now consider the measures which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer brought forward, and which
were to be dealt with by the disposition of this assumed
surplus—a surplus assumed upon the continuance of a tax,
false, dangerous, and pernicious in its principle, as every tax
intending direct impost to a large amount, and the principle
of which is not of general application, I maintain is.
(Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed
three measures of considerable importance, and one or two of
Minor importance. The first in rank was, no doubt, a prop° -
anion for the repeal of the window tax. It is unnecessary
for me to dwell much upon this point. The objections to the
Window duty as it then existed were financial, cr they were
Social, or, as it has been the fashion to call them, sanitary.
I must stop to say that if the financial oppression of the
window-tax was the great reason for i-s remission, it is to be
regretted that the Minister should have attempted only par-
tially to remit it. It would have been more advantageous,
had it been possible, that the tax should be simply and com-
pletely remitted. The fashion has always subsisted, a
the present Government have followed it, in the division of
a surplus, very often to fritter away its virtue by apportaon-
ing apart to various interests of the community.—(Hear,
hear,) Now, in my opinioo, as a general principle, it is
much wiser, if you have a surplus, to do something that is
efficient—(Hear, re
heas s—to discover what interest is most
Buffering, what tax is moat oppressive, and the remission of
what duty would give the most elasticity to trade, or add
Most to the comfort and the happiness of the community,
than to think that as a matter of course the commercial
class, the agricultural class, the inhabitants of the town, and
the shipbuilder should each have a share ; when it is very
Possible that of these four classes three may require no aid,
and when it is very possible also that by concentrating your
resources upon one subject of assistance, you may afford sub-
stantial relief and succour.—( liar, hear.) But I do not
dwell upon that point—nor will I dwell upon the social reason
which might have been and was urged in favour pf a remis-
'inn of the window duty, except that as have sanitary ob-
jects were concerned, I think they might been attained
without any loss of revenue. The reason that Ido
not dwell
upon the subject at all is, that I do not intend,., as I said on
the 11th of April, when it was my duty to solicit the atten-
tion of the House to subjects similar to the present—that I
do not intend at all to dispute the policy of the repeal of the
window-tax. I accept that as a realised result.. I think_e
after all that has passed, considering the unpopularity of th
tax, considering its injurious character, and consid eein g
an
that has occurred in this House upon the topic, that nothing I
could be more injurious, more inexpedient, or more impolitic
than to disturb that remission; and as far as the revenue
derived from the tax upon whitlows is concerned, I con-
eider it blotted out from the Exchequers--(Hear, hear.)
I now proceed to a measure of the Ministers' of a nove
character, in some degree connected with the tax which
I consider as enlirely abrogated, • and that is the proleosi '
tion embodied in the Bill before us—namely, a tax upon
houses. Now, I ask the House to apply that sound prin-
ciple of finance which, in my opinion, ought to be one of our
cardinal principles of finance—namely, that direct taxation
should be as general as indirect taxation, to the measure
which is now before the consideration of the House. I ask
! them to apply thatsearching principleto the Bill which has
introduced
been introduced by the Government for imposing a tax upon
houses. Sir, that fatal characteristic of the income-tax,
Which was perfectly justifiable when it was introduced for a
' temporary purpose by Sir Robert Peel, but infinitely to be
deprecated when revived for a permament purpose by the
present Government - namely, direct taxation, established
on the most limited basis, and partaking in no way of a
I general character, without the excuse of the Government
1 having received it from their predecessors. I find that feature
in an aggravated form in the house-tax. - (Hear, hear.) The
Government had a suplus at their command with' which they
I might have completely and efficiently dealt with the
window-tax. They had a surplus which would have allowed
them to remit the window-tax, if they considered the re-
mission of that tax to be of paramount necessity, and I do
not dispute the position. But they do not remit the window-
tax. It is a commutation—not a remission—(Hear, hear)—
and it has this fatal fault, that the commatation is a partial
commutation—(Hear, hear.) Complete remission, or com-
plete commutation—these are the two principles which a
financial Minister should pursue, But the Chancellor of the
Exchequer not having the moral courage I will not say, but
the financial courage, completely to remit the tax on win-
dows, Which he ought to have done if he felt the necessity
of doing it, takes out from the armoury of the financial
minister one of the most inestimable weapons 'and uses it for
the most meagre and the meanest purposes.—(Cheers.) He
brings forward the instrument which is to impose a tax upon
houses—as just a tax in its principle as can well be con-
ceived, and which every person who reflects upon the pre-
sent position of our financial resources must have always
looked to as a meat valuable aid. He brings it forward, and
he does—what? He does-not even effect a complete remis-
sion of the window duties. He gives you imperfect remis-
sion and imperfect commutation, and he wastes those great
resources which are offered him by a house-tax for a most
limited and, comparatively speakiiag, contemptible result.
And in doing this he not only does not obtain a complete
Gillapensatings tientletie he bed obtain a partial one ; but he

violates that important principle which at no period more
than the present ought to be cherished by the House of
Commons-the right principle upon which direct taxation
should be applied.-(Hear.) There were other measures
brought forward by the Minister on that occasion. A dimi-
nution was proposed of the tax upon timber, which we have
recenq been discussing in Csommittee, and also of the duty
upon coffee. With the permission of the House I will
address myself briefly to these subjects., I am not one of
those who think that there is any abstract excellence in a
Customs duty-I am not one of those who think that, as a
rigid rule, or even as a general rule, you should remit an
Excise Fury in preference to a Customs duty. All that I
would do when the subject of the remission of taxation was
concerned would be, to ascertain which duty is most op-
pressive to the people and most injurious to their comfort
and their industry; and whether I found that to be a Cus-
toms duty or an Excise duty, that is the impost upon which
I would lay my finger. Therefore I do not object to these
propositions of remission on the part of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer because they are Customs duties. Assuming
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could prove to me
that the remission of these Customs duties would more bane-
fit the subject, would give a greater impulse to trade, would
more tend to the advantage of the community than the re-
mission of an Excise duty, or any direct tax, I should prefer
remitting the Customs duties; but any great objecti n to
the remission at present of these two duties-though I shall"
not now dwell upon this head - is that I do not think we are
justified by the state of our revenue to remit any tax, what-
ever form it may take, and whether it is a Customs duty or
an Excise duty ; because I imagine that our ability to do that
depends upon the fact of the existence of a surplus or not.-
(Hear.) But I mast notice the plea upon which the remis-
sion of the timber duty has been put forward by the Right
Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentleman says we owe
the remission of the timber duty mainly and principally to
the builders of ships in this country. Well, I think that no
one will dispute the hardships to which the British ship-
builder is now subjected-(Hear, hear) - but a partial re-
mission of the duty on timber does not at all compensate
the builder of ships in this country for the competition to
which you now exposed him. You are giving up revenue
in this case without obtaining the result which you ought
to achieve.--(Hear, hear.) Now, if you were to allow the
builder of ships in these isles to build in bond, as has before
been proposed ; if you permitted him to use freely all the
articles that are necessary to the construction of a ship in
England, and pay no duty upon them, then you would put
him in fair competition with the foreigner who brings a ship
duty-free to this country, whilst the British builder is build-
ing his ship subject to a variety of duties.-(Hear, hear.)
That is an arrangement which you ought to have made
when you repealed the navigation laws.-(Cheers.) When
you did that you ought to have permitted the British ship-
builder to build in bond; then he would have been placed
in a position which I deny that the proposal of the Minis.
ter, as far as the British ship-builder is concerned, will tend
to place him.-(Hear, hear.) There were other proposi-
tions in this budget. There were propositions which were
intended for the relief of the distressed agricultural interest,
and I shall not dwell upon them. They are already
familiar to the House. Whatever was their value it
is unnecessary for me to calculate them, because no sooner
were they offered than they were withdrawn.-( Hear, hear.)
But perhaps the House will permit me to make one observa-
tion upon the position of the agricultural interest with refer-
ence to the remission of taxation. I ventured to say just
now that in the remission of a tax, whatever form it might
assume, all that I recognised as the valid reason for its repeal
or remission was, that it should be the one which the Minister
of Finance thought, on the whole, to be the most injurious
to the community. That, I think, ought to be the rule
which should guide him in the selection of taxes for remis-
sion.-(Hear, hear.) Sir, I think there is another rule
which ought also to guide a Minister of Finance, who is in
the happy possession of a surplus. I think, if there be a
particular interest in the country which is subject to great
difficulty, is experiencing great distress, and incurring a long
and continued depression, that it is the duty of the Chan-
cellor Of the Exchequer to consider the state of that interet,
and to see whether the remission of any tax would tend to
relieve it. Now, the House will recollect that at the com-
mencement of the year we were informed, by the Speech from
the Throne, that a very important interest was in a state of
great depression, and of continued depression. The Howe
will recollect that, shortly after, the minister proposed mea-
sures, the tendency of which was announced by him to relieve
that distressed interest; and without requesting the House
to give an opinion now upon a question, to which I
refer only in illustration of the financial course taken by the
Government this year, and not with any view to obtain an
opinion upon the subject from either side of the House, I ask
the House to consider the position of the agricultural interest
now with reference to the question of remission of taxation.
By certain laws-the policy or impolicy of which form no
part of our discussion to-night-we have agreed to place the
cultivation of the soil in this country in complete competition
with the cultivators of the soils of all o her countries. Now,
is it not obvious that it is the first duty of the Government
in remitting taxation to ascertain whether they cannct dimi-
nish the cost of production to the British farmer so situated?
I ask the House ta concede no more. That was the first
duty of a financial Minister, who had counselled his Sove-
reign to announce from the throne that there was only one
interest in the country, and that a most important one, in a
state of continued distress. lam not now asking the House
to decide whether it was in the power of the Minister or not,
but I say it was the duty of the Minister to consider whe-
ther, in the reduction of duty he was about to propose, it
was in his power to reduce the cost of production to the
British cultivator of the soil. It was the opinion of myself
and of my friends who supported me that it was in the
power of the Government to diminish the cost of
production. It was our belief that there was ,a
pressure of taxation upon the cultivator of the soil
which was not shared by the community, and though
there might be a difference of opinion as to the degree
of that pressure, no gentleman in the House will
deny the fact that the cultivation of the soil belongs to a
class in this country which pays taxes to which the commu-
nity at large is not subject.-(Hear, hear.) Following the
second rule which I think should guide the Minister of Fi-
nance into the appropriation of his surplus-the first being
that he should remit the taxes:most oppressive to the commu-
nity; and the second, that he should remit that tax which
presses most upon any suffering class-I called upon the
dinistry to consider whether it was not in their power to
accomplish that result. In doing so, as I do to-night, I in-
terfered in no manner with that complete remission of the
window duty, which I consider to be a realised result, and
one which no Government can disturb. I merely urged that
it should be borne in mind that the cost of production should
be diminished to the cultivator of the soil, and believing that
by a wise appropriation of the resources of the Minister
the diminution of cost might be materially assisted to take
Place. I suggested to the Government several propositions
which in a less or greater degree would, in my opinion, have
effected that object. In doing so, I pursued, with the ad.
vice of my friends, the course I had previously adopted, and
I confessed I had other objects in so doing than merely
introducing an element which tended to diminish the cost
of production to the British farmer. I knew that
in matters of finance it is not merely pounds,
shillings, and pence that are always to be calculated, but
that the feelings and opinions of the people, or of a great
class of the community must be considered in the distribu-
tion of taxation ; and I was profoundly convinced that it
wag at that time, as now, equally desirable that any demon-
stration on the part of this House of sympathy with the cul-
tivator of the soil-- any expression of a desire to assist him
in his terrible struggle-any ,resolution for a vote by this
House to assist him (as I considered it to be the duty of the
House to do) in his effort to lumen the cost of production,
was a course the most politic, and tending, whether a large
or small meatture -were adopted-tending to allay asperitiee,
to soften animosities, and terminate that conflict between the
rival industries of the country which are so much to be de-
precated, and which so en -anger the institutions of the
country. lam not. at all prepared to say that that would
not have been a wise and politic measure. On the other
band, he might have taken his surplus, and, dealing with
that portion of the poor-law funds which is not subject to
the control of local administration, the Minister might have
brought forward extensive measures of relief, which might
have contributed to aid the finances of the farmer, and would
have produced an impression on his mind that this House
sympathised wita his sufferings-that they were disposed to
adapt his position to the altered circumstances in which
their legislation had placed him.-(Hear. hear.) That
course was not pursued by the Government. I felt it to be
my duty to invite their attention to what I considered their
duty, and, though I was supported by nearly a moiety of
the House, I was unsuccessful. And now I have brought the
financial career of the Government down to the, commence-
ment of the month of April. There was one observation
which I wish to make with respect to the motion which I
introduced to the House with the object of assisting the
British farmer to meet his severe trial. The object. I had
always acknowledged to be twofold - namely, not only to ob-
tain for him some relief from the pressure of taxation, but
also to show him that there was in this House a salutary
sympathy with his distressed position. The Hon. Member
for Berkshire (Mr. Pusey) has lately made some observations
_(Hear, hear)-upon my Parliamentary career, which cer-
tainly would have been less inconvenient, and might have
been more ingenuous in him, if they had been made here in my
presence.-(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman is of opinion
that the motions which I have brought forward were futile
motions; and secondly, that in bringing them forward the
mover of theta is insincere. These are very harsh senti-
ments. It is very probable that the motions which I have
brought forward with the twofold object I have mentioned
may have been futile, but at any rate motions that have been
supported by a large party in the House of Commons have
upon their surface prima facie symptoms of not being consi-
dered altogether insincere. It may be possible that a man
who brings forward a motion in the House of Commons
may be insincere, but it is difficult to penetrate the bosom of
any: man. We should rather give credit for motives more
elatural, more charitable, and more obvious. I may have
"en mistaken and not insincere ; my reason may have been
misled Y judgment
may have
been misguided • I may
have been
foolish man or a very vain man ; it is better to
think-that than
must alwayltta,en I should be an insincere man ; at least, it
re nion°ce: question of controversy whether our mo-
tives
t•rhßut what are we to say of a Member of
en motions are brought forward which
be believes to be futile, by his • d
tpivaerlsiaament
a gentleman who econvinced
is opportunity of following him into the
issamin,seinicoebrbey, omits
ar,
bear)-and supporting him by his
suffrage.- (Hear, hear,‘
; Why, I might turn round on the
is for
Hon, Member
fon .Berkshire,_ and say there is scarce an epi-
thetscarce a phrase of invective, that, under
e-ould not be justified in lavishing
upon him.-(Hear' ear.) But it is , more agreeable to me
such oefirveiutumpsetaraucits,
hi
I,
men are actuated, not only by
as it is to most of ns, n the think too harshly of human na-
ture;
motives, 'out often by
confused ones,
that it is very
'we all know
to
possible for a man the possession of very
considerable ability, to be in
have received a remarkable
culture, to be in the possession of many reputable
and some amiable qualities, and „yet to be gifted with such
an uncouth and blundering organizatlonethat he is perpe-
tually doing that which he did not intend, and saying and
writing that which he did not mean. ( Hear, hear)
and that is the charitable view which I take of the Hon.
Member for Berkshire's conduct.-(Hear, hear.) But, Sir,
about this time a considerable event occurred. I have
analysed the measures brought forward by the Government
under their various heads, founded upon an assumed surplus
which was to sustain a large measure of direct taxation,
founded upon a fallacious and injurious principle. I have
shown you how the window duty, under any circumstances,
was repealed, and nobody wishes to disturb that repeal. I
have shown you 'now few measure were brought forward to
diminish your irnport duties. I have reminded you of the
measures that were brought forward to relieve the distressed
agriculturists. I have reminded you that when Ministers!,
after an agitated epoch to which I do not wish to allude, re-
constructed their Budget, and discarded, in a manner not re-
markable for courtesy or kindness, the claims of the agricul-
tural body. I called upon the House to declare their opinion
upon that subject; that though I was supported by nearly a
moiety of its members, I was not successful in obtaining the
object of my denires; and, Sir, I made no further objection to
the'Budget of the Minister. I was satisfied with fulfilling
what I considered a public duty, and from that moment I was
resolved, as far as I was concerned, that the measures
which the Miner brought forward undPr such circum-
stances, and of which I questioned and challenged the pro-
priety, under those circumstances should not receive our op-
position. But what disturbed the serenity of the financial
r
ent? Nothing front this side of the Rouse, The

, r e ,e e
Hon. Gentleman opposite-a great ornament of this House; formal announcement was ma'le in older that ill similar , that tax ; but though he made a long speech no result could
one of its most valued Members, the father of the House- discussions-thighs-be terminated for this session ?I am sure 'b3 drawn from it until another Hon. Gentleman helped him
f.r I believe he is looked upon* in a paternal light-a gentle- the Hon. Member for Montrose and his friends cannot have i out, and then it almeared that what he meant was," Don't
man whom I may fairly describe as being the most constant forgotten that announcement of the Secretary-at- War -, and I I repeal the window •tax." He (the Chancellor of the Enche.
and consistent supporter of the Whig Government-who, am quite as certain that the Hon. Member acd his Friends l quer) thought that by the proposition he had made with
though he assumes to chide them, chides them in a friendly mean to hold the Government to its engagement-(hear, I respect to tne window-tax great relief would be given to the
spirit, and though he assumes to castigate them, cestigates hear.) The 'niotion of the Hon. Member for East Surrey, towns, but that that given to the .country would be even
them with ' the mest affectionate remarks-(Laught er) -a though it was of itself of a very extensive character, did not greater. The Hon. Gentleman, however, now thought that
gentleman who, if you take a comprehensive view of his ca- satisfy Ministers. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secre- the public credit was in danger. If so, how did it happen
reer, has always stepped forward at the right moment to ex- tary-at-War mee it by asking what use there was for so that he had voted for the motion of the Hon. Member for
tricate a not ;efficiently strong Government from the im- partial and limited a proposal. " Ministers have deliberated Montrose?-(Hear, hear.) If he was of the same opinion then
pending catastronhe-this most distinguished supporter of well on this eauestion, and the Bight Hon. Gentleman the as he was now, it was rather strange he should have sup-
the Whig Government (Mr. Hume) was the gentleman who Prime Minister has given you hints before, but as you press ported that proposition, the effect of which mull have been
brought forward the motion ,to limit the income_tan; which me, I tell you the measure will be comprehensive, and not to prevent a repeal of the windote-tax, and to endanger the
was to bane been continued for an assured term of three partial and limited like this."-( Hear.) 'Such was the public credit.-(Hear, hear.) A motion had been made not
years, to one year only ; and intimated, in a manner which language of the Secretary-at-War. Ministers ate pledged to long ago, which would endanger no lass than 5,000,000/. of
has necessarily bonnd the House, that his object in so doing deal with the subject in all its ramitications-aey are the public revenue derived from taxation. The motion of
was to submit that tax to Parliamentary investigation of the pledged to bring ' forward a complete and comprehensive the Hon. Membig for Montrose was made on the 2d of may-,
most searching character, with the view of terminating those measure, and to the financial measere the Noble Lord pro- and on the Bth the Hon. Member for the West Riding 'of
inequalities- those circumstances that lead to fraud in it- poses to add a political experiment, and all to be discussed Yorkshire introduced a motion for the repeal of the malt_
and thatinguisitorial eroceeding which it seemed to have been in the first week of February next.-(Hear, hear.) Surely, tax. Now, the danger to the revenue was as grc:at on the
acknowledged by almost everybody were believed to be ir- Sir, witn such a prospect, it would be just as well to keep 30th of June as it was on the Bth of May. On the motion,
removable. What happened? That motion was carried. hold of 1,800,000/. of revenue if we can without disappoint- however, which on the Bth May endangered 5,0n0,0001. of
The basis upon which the surptus of the Chancellor of the ing what I acknOwledge to be the legitimate expectations of reventie, he found the 'mine of Benjamin nisraeli in its
Exchequer was raised fell fromeunder the superstructure; the commuity with respect to the remission of the window- favour-(llear, and laughter)- and now, on the 30th of 1
the fairy palaceevanished in the night. That was no ordi- tax, which, so far from questioning, is a part of those June, the Hon. Gentleman opposite considered that the
nary loss i 0 the Channellor of the Exchequer-that was not measures I wish to recommend for the adoption of her Ma- public credit would be endangered by a sacrificeof 1,500,0001-
merely a loss of iccome.tax for three years, though that was jesty's Government.-(Hear, hear.) Well, then, Sir, of revenue. But perhaps there might be two Benjamin
a result which the finance Minister miler deeply deplore, but the motion which I have put .• before the House does not Disraelis-(Laughter)-and the Honourable Gentleman op-
it V 70.8, regarding the schemes of the Right Hon. Gentleman, pledge Hon.-Members' to much more than to a very posite was not the Honourable Member who had. so voted
a loss of a permanent income-tax. It was hot merely a three salutary principle in our financial .arrangementa ; on the former occasion.-( Etear, and laughter.) But, after
years' tenure of the tax that ,was constructed ancl formed but I should be ashamed of myself if I attempted to conceal all, the real question then before them was, whether or not
in the brief agitated epoch of the ftaction of the present Par- the course with regard to whieb we are willing to support the window-tax was to be repealed ?-(Hear, hear.) If the
liamentary session, the ensuing recess, and the meeting of Ministers if they zealously • puesue it. We are willing to Hon. Gentleman's amendments were carried it would be
Parliament again ; but it .was the permanent future' of the stippert Ministere in a complete repeal of the duty on win- impoesible to repeal that tax. Yet the Hon. Gentleman
financial Minister that was taken from him-it was the don's. We do not wish in any waytte interfere with that himself had said that he considered the wiedow-tax was
foundation on which was raisei, not merely the present arrangement-an arrangement the wisdom of which lamto be blotted out of the Exchequer. He (the Chancellor
superstructure, but on which, year after year, lie was to. not here at present to challenge.-'(Hear.) But whether it of the Exchequer) had not changed his opiuion since he
build up all those elevations which were to have formed the be wise or unwise, expedient or inexpedient, I think in had proposed the repeal of that tax, and the substitution
great future of Our renovated and reconstructed financial ars- equity it is perfectly unobjectionanle.-(Hear.) But, Sir, for it of a house-tax- He believed that its repeal would be a
tem.- (Hear, hear.) It is impossible to over-rate the im- with regard to the measure before us, which is virtually a greatboont and afford great relief to all classes in the country,
portauce of that vote-impossible to deny that from
,it ehe measure of nertial commutation, I should wish to see Go- the agricultural classes as well as those in towns. -He was
financial position of this country has become an uncertain vernment transform it -to one of complete commutatiort.- as anxious as any one coald.be to retain a surplus in the Ex-
and precarious one. Ido , nut blame the Noble Lord or his (Hear.) I think, though we had not a surplus that the en- chequer ; and he thought enough would be left, after carry-
colleagues for accepting that vote, with its coneequences. gagement of being relieved from an odious tatelike the win- leg out his proposition for all the purposes which he con-
From this side no taunt has arisen which would intimate to dow-duty,-at the same time that the revenue does not suffer, templated. The qaestion, therefore which 'they had to -de-
the Noble Lord that ha ought to have resigned after the most is an important consideration and still more important that cide to-night was the repeal of the window-tax ; and he
decided manner in which that vote was carried. I think the the inestimable iustrument Which the Chancellor of the Ex. trusted the House would decide at once upon that question
Noble Lord and his nolleagues acted in a much more honour- chequer has re-introduced into our financial scheme should aye or no.-(Cheers and cries of " Divide.")
able manner in not resigning office then. , Nay more, 'that not be waited for comparatively trifling and secondary par- Mr. NEWDEGATE said the subject brought forward by
*lnce, considered with a view to the prospective condition of
they acted in a dutiful and loyal manner in the peculiar cir- poses. - (Hear, hear.) With regard to the duties on timber the Hon. Member for Bucks was one of the deepest import-
cumstances ; and after the events of this year it was their, and coffee, 'I 'must again repeat, in &manner the most de-
duty to retain their offices. They fulfilled that duty, and not cided, that in • expressing a hope that Ministers will not the puhic interests ; and he wished briefly to state his sin-
in an ungracious manner. But whilst lam willing to make persist with `these measures, I am offering no objection cera concurrence with the Hon. Gentleman in leis belief that
that concession to her Majesty's Ministers, I cannot agree to them on the plea that they are customs duties.- it was- highly inexpedient to sacrifice a large amount of
that their conduct was equally to be lauded in retaining not (Hear, hear.) I discard all those principles of financial publib reveuneat the present moment, and particularly when
only their places, but the financial measures which they lied usages which woeld hold out • customs duties as the only there was ' a large amount of an unsettled claim- with the
brought forward under circumstances so different, with duties which ought to be encouraged. I feel that the revenue East India Company. But at the same time he wished to
various means guard himself from being concluded, by voting in the mi-
prospects so different, from those in which they now found of a cougtty like oure must be raised from
them Selves. My opinion is that Ministers, feeling they were spread over a,large surface; and it is only because I believe nority on that occasion against voting fqr any remisaicin of
not so justified in retiring from office, but that it was their there is no surplus to- supply the vacancy which will be taxiition which might hereafter be proposed, either by the
duty to retain their responsible position, 8110(11(1'0 the same caused by ehose remissions that I hope Ministers under the Government or any Hon. Gentleman opposite. He cen-
time have announced to their eminent supporters who pro- circumstancee, will not- persist with what I cOneid'ereirripolitic sidered the Hon. Member for Bucks was right in his views
posed that motion; that he and his friends must take the propositions. At the sante time we' aie prepared to support with respeetno all the most important interests of the coun-
consequences of that withdrawal of the financial prop- a measure which shall permit the British shipowner to try, and, therefore, he would vote for his present motion.
cations which bad beea founded on the 'assumed conti- build his ships in bond with materials free of duty, and Mr. GLADSTONE confessed it did occur to him, while
nuance of the tax, and which were to be furnished by in fair competition with the foreigner who brings his ships listening to•portions of the speech of the Hon. Member for
the surplus which had now only an imaginary ex- ready made into this country:- In saying.this, I Leg to Budkinghamshire, that he would have wished that parts of
istence. Ido not think lam taking an extravagant or state that the loss to the revenue, under these circumstances, that speech had received a fuller development at his hands.
irrational hiew of the duty of the Government under such will not be, in my opinion, Of any considerable amount. I He referred particularly to the course which the Honourable
circumstances. But it appeared to me as far as I could have tniten great pains to inform myself on this point, and Member Might wish the House to•pursue in the event of the
observe the human nature opposite ine, that the Nohle Lord have availed Myself of the information: of men most quell- adoption on the motion then before it. In considering the
was animated at the same time by feelings of a very similar fied to judge. I think they assumed ghat the loss by the objections which he (Mr. Gladstone) had stated on a former
character. There was a species of delay in the advance- remission of the duty on, timber would be about 284,000 e, occasion to the financial plans of the Government, he could
inent of the financial measures ot the 'Government ; they and I think. I: can guarautee to the Chancellor of the Ex- not -refuse to support a motion which asserted a sound prin-
never appeared in the paper- or, if they did, they were never chequer that the odn 84,0001. will be all Claim will lose by cipla in opposition to those plans-(Hear)-but he would
noticed ; not a single stage did they' ev-er make. of progress; permitting British shipowners to build their ships in bond. state with as much brevity and plainneas as he could the
and it was generally understood-I do no not spertle of ru. dt would be not so much a -remission of taxes, as an act of reasons which influenced his vote, and the course which he
mours out of doors, or of those confidential communications political justice. These are the measures which we are thought the house was bound to pursue tinder present cir-
which are made in-doors-but it was generally understood- anxions to see Ministers ondertake, assured of our eupnoit if curnstances.-(Hear, hear.) When the Chancellor of the
perhaps it was a public conviction arising from such views of they pursue that cctune which, according to
,my observation Exchequer ptoposed the repeal of the window-tax he had
the situation of Ministers and of their duty to the country and belief, their better judgment once impelled them to fol- also proposed the renewal of the income-tax for three years ;
-but there was a general impression that the financial low.--(Henr,
*hear.) I see a smile ell the face of the Presi- and even under these circumstances he (Mr. Gladstone)
measures of the Government were withdrawn. How many dent of thu Board ot Trade when I talk of giving Government should confess it appeared to him to be a most unwise arid
Cabinet Councils were held I would not venture to our support in carrying these measures, as much as to say most hazardous proposition, as reepected the maintenance of
state ; bat this I* know, a remarkable scene occurred that, though we would support them in these measures, we the public credit, in parting with so important a source of
in this-House. One of the most distinguished metropolitan wuuld hold bock in our support if they were threatened with revenue as the window-tax, by substituting for it a tax in
Members, who seemed to share in this conviction, arose in a vote of censure from Hon. Gentleman behind. I can the shape of a house tax, to place the latter on so narrow,
his place and demanded some information from the Noble assure the Eight Hon. Gentleman he is mistaken. When I and, as he thought, so illegitimate a basis as the Govern-
Lord as to the intentions of the Government. He wanted to say we shall support the Government, it is not merely in ment had selected for its toundation.-(Hear, hear.) He
know whether the window-tax was really to be repealed or carrying thesg measures, but also against the menacing con- hen objected to the house tax for these two reasons:-
not, and the answer of the Noble Lord was extremely un- sequences he anticipates, and without taking advantage of 'ln the first place, they introduced it without the slightest
satisfactory. The inquiry was again repeated another any discontent of any section of his followers.-(Hear.) We calculation that the great anomaly in the tax which had
night, and in a tone of menance, and the Noble Lord, turning would support them because their cause would be that caused its abolition in 1e34-he meant the inequality of its
his back upon us, made a confidential communication which we believed necessary for the interests of the country. incidence to the mansions of the great as compared -with
which appeared to be of a deprecatory character. The Five minutes more, Sir, and I shall have done. After all, those of the middle classes and those dwellings used for busi-
effect was as if the Noble Lord was hustled by a Finsbury what is the question at stake? It is the public credit of the ness-was not removed.-( Hear, hear.) It was that in-
mob in Saffron-hill, or some place of that character, where country. That Is the real question; and it is not to be to.
But they had heard little of that objection on the present
equality in the tax which bad led to its abolition in 1834.
occasion, probably on the Principle of not looking a gift
the pocket of the Minister was relieved of his financial sur- lerated that a Ministry, acting under a feeling of false shame,
plus. After a fortnight's friendly interPellations the Noble should be encouraged in pursuing measures the tendency of
Lord at last screwed up his courage to proceed with his which is considerably to injure the public credit of the horse in the mouth ; that flaw in its structure haying been
assed over in silence. However, he ,could not -think that
measures of remission, which are to be supplied from a country. I beg to remind the house of this important P
moon-shine surplus-from a still imaginary surpius.-(lnear, consideration. We are so used to the blessings of public it was good to introduce into our laws that which was
hear.) lam now arrived at that point at which I would credit-we live in an atmosphere and in a world -so com. objectionable. He could not consent, moreover, to a
influenced by it, that we are not so apt to con. house-tax, which exempted six-sevenths of the whole house
ask the House what is the most prudent course that, under PletelY
these circumstances, We should pursue? The fund from eider what would be. the consequences of any injury property of the country from its operation. He was not
which the surplus was derived that was to be distributed done to it. I wis reading to-daY-an account, by one of aware why they should take such an irrational course with
virtually no longer existed. I would ask the House calmly the most eminent publicists in existence, of a recent visit to respect to the house-tax. It was something like giving a
and dispassionately to consider this Point, What is the this country, and I was struck with one sentence, the justice charter of future exemption from all taxations to those six-
prospect or probability of the income-tax being renewed at of which lam not prepared to acknowledge, but which I sevenths of the houses of this country. For his part he
the next meeting of Parliament ? It is a disagreeable ques- think is worthy the. consideration of the House, He says, knew no more legitimate subject for taxation on the whole,
tion. But it is a question which I must beg this House
property is not so secure as it was, nor public credit as country.-(Hear, hear.) If it were true that house property
e Things have changed in Eng Lend as everywhere else, and anh upon general principles, than the house property of the
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inittee which is to inquire into the income-tax. I am a member
of it in deference to the feelings of the House, add against ss3a, cmr epdt .0"m
my own inclination. I would rather have seen a more effi- sNwohwiChl
reigner, however able end 'experienced; but the observation upon house property as the most secure and permanent de-
cient member on it thantmYself. Being a member, how- is one deserving attention, and I think it becomes the House scription of property as a resource of revenue to the country.
ever, of the Committeenlet it not be sapposed that lam giv- to consider how dependent public credit is on the conduct He could not therefore -prevail on himself to give a vote
ing the opinion of that Committee in what I now state. We of Parliament. We know well uhat the resources of Eng- which would in future preclude any portion of that revenue
are sedulously pursuing the course of inquiry, but that has land, though not inconsiderable, are inferior to those of from being made available. But what had recently occurred
not led unto consider the circumstances which-would at all many countries which do not occupy the position she added tenfold to the considerations he had before entertained.
influence my opinion on ihe topics to which I allude. I speak does in the eyes of mankind. We were often told by How different, how much more • formidable a character had
just the same as if I was not a member of that Committee, or Honourable Gentlemen opposite, when members of the that question now assumed I . He did trust the House would
as if that Committee had not been appointed. There is one Anti-Corn• . Law - League, that there was scarcely a seriously and dispassionately consider the position in which
reason among many which I confess weiehs much With me, raw production used in our manufactures which
.was the income-tax now stood. The proceedings of the present
and convinces me that the tax upon income as at present not imported from foreign countries. We know well that year had inflicted a heavy blow upon that impost.-(Hear.)
formed will not be renewed by the House. I will tell you the most celebrated diamond in the world, which blazes at It was imipossible to conceive that it could be again proposed
why. I find a universal admission that as at present framed this moment close to nse 'within the crystal walls of that in that House without serious if not obstinate opposition
that tax is an unequal tax and leads to fraud-that it is enchanting palace which the enlightened taste and pre- from one or more parties in Parliament. Let them con-
rife with vexatious and inquisitorial proceedings-and that scient philanthroply of ail illustrious Prince have raised to sider the line of cenduct taken by one party, and the position
it is stampedly features repugnant to the habits and .feel. the glory of England, and the instruction of two hemi- in which the question now stood. There was a large body
ings of Englishmen. Everybody. agrees to that. Tory, spheres-we know, I say, that that diamond was never of Gentlemen in that House who said it was unjust to levy
Whig, ',Liberal, Conservative, or Radical, will admit those found within the dominions of the illustrious Consort of that a uniform per-centage under all the schedules of the Act.
are the features of the income-tax. But there is also another Prince, our Sovereign Lady the Queen; and we know that These Gentlemen had obtained a Parliamentary Committee
opinion rife- Every man of any authority upon financial if all the geologists in the enipire were to eiplore with their to consider, not exclusively, but mainly whether they ought
subjects, all competent to form an opinion 'on the topic, uni. hammers the rocks and hills that surround us, they would not to alter that per-centage under the Act? Such was the
versally and without exception agree to another point, and not be successful in producing one ingot of that metal, the state of one of the powerful parties of that House. The
that is, that those odious features of the tax canna by any thirst for which, as the poet tells Ili, has produced so much Government were not to be looked upon as friends on general
means be removed or modified. The man, then; must be misery to mankind.--(hear, hear.) I was, Sir, somewhat or permanent grounds to the imposition of the income-tax.
short-sighted indeed who can hesitate as to the consequences amused, and not a little astonished, with a statistical work The Chancellor of the . Exchequer, indeede in 1840, had THE FIRE AT 'LONDON-BRIDGE.
of such an opinion upon human action--who can believe that which I met with the other day, and which professed to given in something like hie adhesion to the principle of
a tax with such odious qualities, which the highest authori- catalogue the resources of the principal dominions in the the income-tax as a portion of the general taxation of the . OFFICIAL INQUIRY.
ties tell you can never be removed, can be renewed. That, world. I remember it stated that the revenue of Russia, country. The Noble Lord, too, within the last few weeks An inquest was held at eleven o'clock yesterday, at the
though a sufficient, is not the only reason. I see among the whose gigantic destinies menace as it were the coining gene- had spoken in terms - which might represent his opinions London-bridge Hotel, by Mr. Payne, the coroner for the
great lights of science--among tliose whose writings will ul.: rations of men, is not so great as that raised bv the English aft showing that the repeal of that tax was not to be ex. city of London, to investipte the cause of the recent exten-
timately guide public opinion on the subject, an opinion excise. Then came 'the aucient empire of theriaisers, with Pected, There was auother party in that House which sive fire at Mr. Alderman Humphery's wharf.
gaining ground every day that the principle -of its triple kingdom of Bohemia, Hungary, and Lombardy, believed that the per-centage under schedule D was so con- The jury having been sworn,
direct taxation, cannot be different from the principle of with a revenue not exceeding the amount raised from the stituted as to demand the renewal of the arrangement under Mr. PAYNE described to them the situation of the build-
indirect taxation-that they must both be perma- stamps aud taxes in this country-those taxes which so de. that schedale. There were many on that (the OppoSition) ings, and pointed out on a rough plan the portions which had
nent and equally general ;of course I speak onlg light the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and those stamps side of the House, of whom be was one, who could not con- been destroyed. ,
of permanent taxes, and not of those imposed that SP perplex him.-(Hear. hear.) And, strange to say, sent to the income tax if the per-centage was varied. From 'lhe Coroner and Jury then proceeded to view the pre-
merely to meet an emergency, like the income-tax of Sir R. the revenue of Russia, that mighty Power, whose discn all considerations of policy they were precluded by a solemn mises, and on their return,
Peel. I ask then the House to consider, assuming- that Plined array only last year frightened all the capitals of Pledge upon the statute-book from anything in the nature of Mr. William Snooks, Tooley-street, surveyor, described
when Parliament next meets it will not consent to grant the Europe, is not se great -as that local and Provincial taxation such a variation. Now in what conoition was the income- the premises which were burnt, as it has already appeared in
income-tax as at present framed, and that the Chancellor of of this country, with the peculiarities of which it has been tax to come out of that Committee? Was it to come with the papers.
the Exchequer's present remissions of taxation are carried, my fortune so ottee to trouble the House.-(llear.) Noe, a recommendation to vary the per. centage? If so it would James Dimsdale, Tooley-street, porter-Knew the pre-
and there will be in consequence a deficiency of five or six Sir, can I forget that even India, with its cloud of kings aud not receive the sanction of the Honse.......(Hear, hear.) If mises and had been employed in them. When the fire broke
millions (I say nothing of the Kaffir war); what are the myriads of subjects-owith its mountains of light and pillowed otherwisee it might be met with the hostility of a powerful out he was in Montague-close, in front of the warehouses.
Prospects of the meeting that probable, or possible, defi. 'palanquins- with its stores of gems showered at the feet of party. He could not forecast all the difficulties which might It was about a quarter to four o'clock. There was a jour-
ciency ? There are only two modes, and though blended our Queen, does.not throw from iteenueerant bosom a public arise under the circumstances ; but this he should say, that neyman of the name of Eaton with him. He was coming
they May produce the effect, analyse those methods, and income so great as that afforded eoen by the curtailed cus- these 5.000,000 h of revenue were placed in a most precarious from the new building. He saw a gentleman standing at
they Will resolve themselves into those by reduction of ex- toms of England.--(Hearo• •gy what magic is it that Eng. position. He would, therefore, ask the House whether it the bottom of A warehouse. He did not know who he
pendittire or increase of taxationt Not ene teord will fall land has producee a -revenne greater than that of all these were wise, whether it were politic, whether it were honese, was. The gentleman sung out " Fire " and " Po-
troll' me to depreciate the efforts of any Hon. Gentleman to iminense dominions? • Itis by tbis public credit-a produc- to exclude from their view the preparations for a email- lice." Witness then went over to give the alarm.
diminish taxation, though the results might be but a cone. tion of British growth more to be prized than the harvest of gooey so great as the Possible lapse of the income- tax ?- He saw the fire on the first floor of warehouse A.'
paratively slight diminuti ea of expenditure amouuting, tropical climes-more precioas than the gems of neolconda,or (Hear.) In case of the lapse Of that tax what would main- He went to Mr. Brown, of the Hibernia-wharf, and he sent
perhaps, tO 100,000/e ' 200,000 n, or 300,000 n only, I the auriferous deposits in the Sierras of the pacific.-.( Hear, tain the peblic credit? They might talk, of public economy ; Eaton for the engine immediately. He then came back to
cannot help remembeeing that we live in a country which hear.) Of this punlic'credit Parliament is' the creator-the aud certainiy that House had not exceeded its duty iu en• the fire, and rendered assistance as far as he could. He
cauld never fled money enough to build a national gallery. champion, the guardian.- (Hear, hear,) It it possible, then, foraing economy and retrenchthent ; and he hoped more was there the whole time to eight o'clock. He went into
Thereiore I will not speak with any want of estimation tor that the House,of Commons won ever hesitate to tuifil its might be effected in that direction. Certainly arrangements letter C, on the third floor, but be could not tell what wa 1
those limited savings, but I agree with the Hon. Member for duty. I cannot believe it, and with the conviction that they had been entered into which in the course of time would have in the warehouse. He assisted in removing hops from letter
the West Riding nair. Cobden) that no reduction of expen- will do it, .I beg to move by way of amendment, the resolu- the'effect of causing. a saving in expenditure in connexion C warehouse. He saw the fire in letter D from the loophole
diture can be effected in this 'country, unless you. touch tions I new. place in your hands. - (Cheers.) The Hon. with ehe debt. But he was not of opinion that the income- of letter C. He cid not go on the roof at all, nor did he go
the military . armaments of the country ; and the Member concluded by moving the following resolutions :- tax could be done away with, and public credit at the same into the warehouse Dat all. He kuew nothing of how the
House ' must therefore consider what probability *or " That, according to an estimate of the probable future time maintained, if they withheld their hands from new fire commenced, and could give no opinion with respect to it.
possibility there is of such a course. I will not Produce of .theeexisting taxes, submitted to this House by taxation. Then he would say, let thein have the resource When he saw the fire first it appeared to him to be on the
say one word to obstruct the progresi of the principles in- the Chancellor Of the Exchequer, it appears that a surplus of a house; tax, not indeed to take the tplace of an income- staircaee. He saw it through the window. The door near
volved in the question of the maintenance of a perpetual revenue may be expected in the present year to the extent tax, but to fill up some portion of the deficiency caused which the gentleman was standing was open. He didn't
peace. I will only make one remark. As long as I find of about 2,000,00 W. , by its removal. And there was the eonnexion between know what became of the gentleman. The gentleman ap-
that the strongest positions are in the possession of the weak= ` That in the revenue so estimated is included a sum ex- the two subjects. _The position in which they were peered to be alarmed. He was standing still, and was calling
est powers, that the richest territories in the world 'owe ceedino 5,000,000/. derived from the tax on income, respect- placed was this, that while the income-tax was " Police-fire I" He worked in all the warehouses frequently,
their allegiance to authorities less qualified to defend them, ing which an inquiry has been directed to be made by a placed in such a Perilous position, they were proposing a ever since they were built. Did not know what was in
I see the elements of disturbance, which only the most san- CoMnaittee of this Housee on the reeult of whose labours may house tax on a basis so narrow, that it could not be made the warehouse A, but believed there were rags there-white
guiue can affect to despise, and whether you call the procesi, depend the future 'renewal or modification of that important properly conducive to the public revenue. Such were the linen rags. Did not know what was burning when he
in the enlightened language of the present dag, " annexe, impost. objections which-he entertained to the financial policy of the first saw the fire. At twelve o'clock that night he was in
tion,'' and not conquest, it is a process which I feel must " That in this Provisional state of the financial arrange- Government.. But if he was asked what would he recom- Mr. Waterman's premises ; witness was then sober; had not
begin with force, must be repelled by fence, and must ulti- . meats of the country,' it appears to this House to be most mend, his answer Would be, that he disclaimed on the part been in A all day. He (witness) pointed Out the gentleman
mutely be - settled by force. But to dismiss those general consistent with a due regard to the maintenance of public of those not connected with the Government the duty of whom he saw at the door of letter A when the flre broke Ont.
Principles. I aSk the House to consider the general state of credit and the exigencies of the public service, not to make pointing out in detail the nature of the financial measures Thomas Harris Edge, 61, Walcot-plaee Kennington-road,
Europe at present, and say whether any Minister of this any material sacrifice of public income in effecting such connected with the direct taxation of the country. But this clerk-Had been down in the Borough, and was passing
country can ne asked with any face of reason now, or in the changes as may be deemed advisable in other branches of was, he thought, what they ought to do-adopt-the principle along the warehouses when a person passed him, running as
commencement of next year, to reduce the military arma- taxation."f .. • . laid down by the Hon. Member for Backs, that the surplus fast as he could towards Tooley-streen He was a labouring
.
ment of this country ? What is the state of the continent ? The question having been put, which they had was not to be dealt with as permanent in- man. He came from, the direction'of the warehouses. He
lou have one of the leading nations of the world, with .a The CHA.NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that come, to be given away without reference to future neeessi- also SAW another man in the direction of the church-yard.
vast Population, a most spirited and restless people, in the the present was the third time on which the Hon. Gentleman ties. But if they wished not to disappoint the expectations Both had come frona the same direction. There was no ap-
heart of Europe, who have acknowledged that they have no had addressed the house on financial subjects, and whatever raised with respect to the income-tax, they ought to have so pearance of fire outside. That was about a quarter to four.
constitution-who, we know, have not in their country any talent he might have displayed, he had, at the conclusion of constructed their house tax as to place it on a basis so broad He saw several men looking through the first window of the
of the elements of government-who, whatever be their his speech, left them in the most profound ignorance of his as that in case of necessity it might be made available for ground-floor of letter A. That was the staircaseawindow,
powers of self-control, no one will for a moment pretend are intentions. The only Practical recommendation in the Hon, yielding a considerable sum to the Exchequer. What was and on looking in he saw the flre. On seeing the fire he
not at this moment hi a position the most perilous that Gentleman's elaborate display of two hours and a half was, the precise limit of the basis he did not presume to say ; thought the two men had gone for the engines. He called
80,000,000 or 40,000,000 of men ever yet found them- that of permitting British shipowners to build their ships in whether it ought to include 101. houses, or to adopt a gradn- out fire as loud as he could. He went into the warehouse
selves. Could even the Honourable Member opposite bond. But another disadvantage attended the speech. It ated scale; or whether the tax was to be levied on owners or occupied in letter Aby Mr. Hewitt, cheese factor. As soon
(Mr. Hume) tell them that there was less chance of not only fell short of the motion, but it was absolutely eon- occupiers; or whether they were to make all house property as the fire reached the first-floor where there were rags, it
a disturbance now than for some years back? If he tradictory. In the motion the Hon. Gentleman said that no liaele to taxation. These were questions upon which it blazed out Very violently.. He had not the slightest know-
makes a motion to that effect he will not be as successful tax should be repealed; but in his speech he was willing to would not only be premature but impertinent for him to ledge of how the fire originated. When he first saw the fire
as when he limited the income-tax to one year; and you, repeal the window-tax. The Hon. Member had indulged a express an opinion. The fundamental objection which he the rags were not burning.
whether he be right or wrong, looking at whdt is most pro- livelg imagination, and had' talked of the gigantic enipire of had to the proposed house-tax was, that it cut off from the William Eaton, a Bridge-street labourer, was in Mr.
bable and possible, will not meet a probable deficiency of Russia-the triple empire of the Kaisers. He had then tree House of Commens the InOat valuable source of revenue. Hewitt's warehouse shortly before four, and heard a crack-
revenue by a diminution of military expeniiture. Every veiled to India-had spoken a mountains of tight and pil- It cut off that source of revenue, too, at a time when ling, and on looking into A warehouse he sew fire on the
man must feel that that is not the mode in which the defi- lowed palanquins-down to ' such htembie things as stamps those measures adopted by the House, and suggested by staircase. There is a small room by the side of the stairs,
.ciency will be met. Then it must be met by increased tax- and taxes. Now all that Was very eloquent, but the elite, the Government, had made it probable that that source in which lumber is kept, and he was of opinion that the
ation, and in ten months' time they would in all probability pOint which he had to notice was that relating to the finan- should be had recourse to to maintain the interests of the fire originated there.
be called on to supply the financial deficiency behincreased cial condition of the c,ountry. The Hon. member was !nig_ country, as well as that public credit which they all had so Richard Welsh, warehouseman to Mr. Humphery-Mr.
taxation. In such circumstances, then, what was there taken in supposing that no man could tell what was the much at heart,- (Hear.) He had thus stated all his reasons Hewitt occupied the ground floor of letter A, and Mr. Ho-
more unjust, more impolitic, more savouring of folly, than financial condition °flit° ehafttrYe at this moment. Now an for the vote he intended giving. He would only add one lingsworth, paper-maker, the second, third, and fourth floors.
now to be taking off two millions of taxes which no one the statements he llautmanisa`il tue budget of the 4th April more word of explanation. In voting, as he intended, for a The latter's warehOuses were filled With calico and linen
pretends presses with any great severity on the subjecte of were fully • Warrante'" hee still believed that the motion which he conceived asserted a sound financial prin- , rags. Mr. Wigan, hop-factor, occupied the fifth floor, and
which the collection is effected with' comparitive faciliten surplus would be 1,900,D00/., as , stated, minus the cipie, he was far from saying that the Government would be Mr. Humphery the top one, which was empty. B was oc-
and which are• more Way borne than any corresponding expense of the Kafir war.
,The Hon, Gentleman was mis_ right in withdrawing the changes they proposed to make in copied by Messrs. Hitchen and Thornton, hop factors, on the
amount of taxation which might be granted in their stead. taken in supposing that the surplus of this veer would de_ theeenstoms BilL Such a sacrifice of revenue as that which first and top floors. Mr. Wigan had floors 2,3, 4, and 5,
But I am bound to put another view of our position before pend on the permanence of the income-tax. What might be they proposed to make was what the public had a right to which contained hops. Letter I) was occupied entirely by
the attentive consideration of the House, if I man. still Pre- the case next year he could not say, but this year the income. expect for the renewal of the income-tax. The proposed Mr. Wigan with hops. He was not on the premises after
sume to trespass on their attedtion.-(Hear.) It is a view tax did not affect the surplus. He had never advocated the remission of the duties on timber and coffee had al- half-past seven in the morning. He opened the loopholes
which, I think, deserves our gravest consideration. If you income-tax as a permanent tax ; but merely as a tax to ready taken effect in the votes of the House, and and locked the doors before he left. Everything was then
have a deficiency, and if you are called on-with the views enable them to cover certain reductions in tne finances of the estimates had been conducted with a view to those safe, He returned about half-past five, and the premises were
which I have indicated as to direct taxation-to consider the country. The Hon. Gentleman had a lively imagination, reductions. The revenue upon those articles was not an then on fire. There is a small cupboard under the stairs in
the principle on which our financial system is established, but he should not exercise it in putting words into his (the inflexible revenue, but one of that elastic nature as would letter A, in which paint-pots and other lumber were kept.
is it not of the utmost importance that we should come to Chancellor of the Exchequer), mouth which he had never go to increase itself. Bat, with respect to the house-tax, he He could not form the least idea as to the origin of the st;
that consideration with plenty of time, in a tranquil mood, used. What be had stated was, that he thought the House could not allow that proposition to pass without the ex- and heard no one threatening to set the place on fire.
ss th
and not urged by matters -of pressing public interest?- should only this year deal with those taxes which it was pression of his honest opinion that that was a revenue which on the spot when the fire broke out in letter D.
_elig; In ,
(Hear, hear.) But what prospect awaits the House when indispensable to deal with, and leave for future consideration Parliament ought not to give away, as it was a revenue the roof of C about seven, and saw no sips ,e. :e
I tter D.
it meets next February? W hat part is the Noble Lord the question whether it would be advisable to make other which might be drawn without the slightest objection being about half-an-hour afterwards the fire broke out. en __.
6 atm and
Prepared to take? The Noble Lord is not satisfied changes in connection with the income and property-tan. made to it, and this more especially under circumstances Ho saw smoke coming out of the windows of tn-
dere could b
with financial embarrassment-he is not satisfied with a The,Hon. Gentleman had said, although the Government re- which might be formidable, and which events showed mieht sixth floors. It did not appear to him that
d the fire • e
Possible deficiency of 5,000,000 e. or 6,060,000/. . tained their-places, they had _ tllso Preserved the financial be near at hand.-(Hear.) any connexion between the fire in A and Bung the in D.
—"he ie eet satisfied that we are to be called on .to settle the measures which every one hau thought were withdrawn. , Mr.LABOITCHEBE said the Hon. Member for Bucking- Mr. Thomas Stamm said that he villa h. enlPleY. of
Principle on which the revenue should Ihe, raised. te.: suPPly Now, not only himself, but his Noble Friend at the head of hamshire said be did not wish the window-tax to be re- Mr. Edward Hewitt, a cheese factor, A .on is attentlen
that defi - re ti of it in No. 2
---ciency, but chooses that tranquu and undisturbed the Government, had thstinctlY stated that they were not tained, and the Eight Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down was called to the fire, and saw the .-
hour to ,_._d In the warehouse, but he
en ---,Propose a new reform of the House of Commons - inclined to make ' any alteration whatsoever in the financial admitted that the duties on timber and coffee ought not to warehouse. There was a culhoun d
lliesr.) Shan Ibe told to • . . f h Th 111. ht 13 . . •d h •ith t. .th 'ld t b lieve that the fire commence there, or it would
-night that, like the surplus . the measures 0t e year. ere ig e some few which it be preserved ,an t ese were precise y e ques ions wt. ino e ; case- Any person could go into
new Reform B'll '
i is to be conditional on a renewal of the in- did not matter much. whether they passed in April, or May, which the House had to deal on that occasion. Such were first have destroyed tbe sta-r He e i
come-tax for three years. I beg the House t° observe that or June; but generally they had determined on adherin 'th g 1 t' which they had then to determine. the place, as it is open all don. _ 01l d form DO notion as
g , e prac .ca ques ions nor bad he ever heard threats of
this is the
, P.voespect which awaits us. When we meet, we to their plans. What was the nature of the motion of the That was what the House had been for Some time deliberate to how the fire began,
shall uave t° "eal with a probable deficiency of millions in Hon. Gentleman? It was " That no material sacrifice of jng upon-whether the duties on timber and coffee were te injury. ~0
..,,,
the reventte-nwie must supply the deficiency-we must dis.. public income should he made in effecting such changes as be reduced, and whether the granting of the income-tax for . Mr. Chanel; eiroe-,vrtoasreEttn to Mr. Alderman Humphery,
cuss the Prim'!" on which the financial system of the coun- might be deemed advisable in other branches of taxation,. only one year was so important as not to justify any further said-When the firdthatti ansctovered he WAS in the counting-
try is to be escablished
e , and at the same time that her Ma- Now that meant-if it meant anytbing-that not only no remission of taxation. He knew that the vote hadebeen house at Flibeerrus
,h keY to the when told of it by Eaton, he
h warehouse No. 2A, thinking he
jetty's Gouernmene are Pledged-o-mind you, pledged-to in- reduction whigh had already passed that House should be come to by the joining of parties holding the most diverse ran with --
.Ma to u
troduce a verey, extennsive measure of Parliamentary reform. admitted, but that the relief Which bad been promised int opinions ; but though he deeply regretted that vote, he should he, -on- s uct u
ebl
nc the fire. He went up three or four
-(Hear. ) 'le seuc" a, „Measure they are pledged in the . one particular impost should be abandoned, and that the I was not of opinion that by it a fatal blow was struck to the stairs, hue _htitiee.na 11 to Proceed further in consequence of
most formal Illanu,er•-t "ear.) Must I recall to the memory : wiedow-tax was
,neither to be repealed nor -modified, nor a ' credit of the country. He should do deep injustice to those the immenhe ;"`" , e saw the rails and the rags inside the
of the HOurie the language used by a Cabinet Minister and i house-tax substituted in its place.-(Hear, hear.) The Hon. i who may be said to be the authors of that vote, if he im- warhnusfie.::: "re• , rhere was no appearance of the fire
adopted by his colleagues ell the second reading of the Bill Gentleman; on a former 'occasion, also made a long speech, i puted. any ulterior design to them. There never was a ctannhg "1", a tuPlooard, but he belied it came from a bale
introduced by the. HO. Member fer East Surrey, when a and propond an amendment On - going into Committee on . period when VOUS pen and parties were more united in oi rags near to the door. .
... . . . . .
•