The Sun.
London, England, 1851-02-08 00:00:00

ascendant Church in this country which repudiated dissent
as well as Catholicism. With respect to the Dissenters
in the north of England, no matter what part might have
been taken by some of them here, he could say, that with
scarcely an exception they held aloof from the uproar made
on that question.—(Hear, hear,) The Hon. Member then
proceeded to read some extracts from the life of a Dissenting
minister, the Rev. Dr. Fletcher, late of Stepney, written by
his son, to show that the Established Church had no tole-
ration for the Dissenters. The extracts mentioned that the
Doctor had sent two sermons which he had preached, one
being on the birthday of the Prince of Wales, for the
inspection of her Majesty ; but they had been returned by
the Earl of Delawarr, who had said they could not be laid
before the Queen, having been delivered to a Dissenting con-
gregation, and not having the sanction of the Established
Church. A gentleman, who was a namesake of the Noble
Lord, but he hoped no relative of his, came annually to
strip of its furniture a place of worship at which he (Mr.
Bright) attended, for the support of that Established Church
—and that, too, in the midst of a city where there had been
so much outcry of late about Papal usurpation and religious
domination.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffield bad
alluded to the United States. lie would take an illustration
from that country. There the Roman Catholic religion was
chiefly professed by emigrants; and he had been told that
one rarely heard of a native American ever becoming a
Roman Catholic. Even the descendants of the emigrants,
after u generation, had passed into the ranks of Protestantism.
There was a difference, too, in the practice of the Roman
Catholic religion in that country. To show that Protestantism
was increasing in America, the Hon. Member read some
extracts from a New York paper, in which there was an ac-
count of two Roman Catholic priests who had a chapel,
which they were about to change to a different sort of
worship. They had lighted candles, put up curtains in the
window, and one of them, having stated their reasons for
changing, concluded by extinguishing th'b candles, with-
drawing the curtain, and saying that it was thus they
put out the artificial light which bad hitherto guided them,
and would let in in its stead the glorious light of day. Such
was the progress Catholicity was making in America. But
there would be no secession from the Church of Rome as
long as it was a persecuted Church. The system they
adopted made it impossible that they could either convert
themselves or let anybody else do so. Lord Burleigh, who
did not admire the Dissenters, had said that the Puritans
were so squeamish in their morals, and so scrupulous in
their catechising and preaching, they ivere the best means
of preventing the growth of Popery. Until they got rid
of their system the Catholic religion would more or less
spread over all the counties in Ireland, and make further
progress in this country. The Bill of the Noble Lord
would be perfectly inefficacious for the objects for which
it was professedly intended.—(Hear, hear.) if the Noble
Lord was the great agitator in .this country, be should
have brought in some real substantial grievance. It was
because he (Mr. Bright) was against all legislation
which he believed to be useless, because he believed the
Noble Lord's measure was only fitted to meet the preju-
dices of some persons out of doors, and not to meet auv
real evil, that he (Mr. Bright) could not give his consent
to the present or to any future stage of the Bill.—(Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI rose and said,— Sir, I wish to recall the
attention of the House for a moment from that controversial

rhetoric—(Hear, hear)—of which, I fear, the policy of her
Majesty's Government affords the house a considerable
prospect of a continuance for the rest of the session—l want
to explain the reason why I shall give my vote for the in-
troduction of this measure. I shall do so because I think it

is a matter of interest that the community in general should
see what is the result of that remarkable agitation which
has been fostered by the Government, and which
has led, I hesitate not to say, to a national de-
monstration which, perhaps, has never been equalled.
I cannot but think that, to-morrow, when the
contents of this Bill shall become known to the country,
there will be experienced a feeling of great disappointment—
(Hear, hear)—and a great mortification.—(Renewed cries of
" Hear, hear.") Let us remember for a moment what this
Bill is intended to combat. It is to combat an aggression.
Let the House remember the origin of that now familiar
term—that familiar but fearful term. Was the expression
of the Minister selected by himself, and offered to the coun-
try as a reason for that appeal, both to the passions and the
reason of the nation, which he in his wisdom felt it his duty
to make ? This, then, is the weapon by which the First
Minister of the Crown, after three months of unexampled
agitation in the country—after three months of consultation
with his colleagues—this is the weapon which• he has pre-
pared for defending the Church and State from that great
aggression which he has so vehemently denounced. I con-
fess I do not think that the weapon is equal to the office for
which it is intended. I think that many persons will be of
opinion that it is a somewhat small result after the antece-
dents that had so attracted public notice. Was it for this
that the Lord Chancellor of England trampled on the
cardinal's hat—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—amidst
the patriotic acclamation of the metropolitan muni-
cipality ? Was it for this that the First Minister, with more
reserve, delicately intimated to the assembled guests that
there had been occasions when perhaps greater danger was
at hand—se, for instance, at that period when the shadow of
the Armada darkened the seas of England ?—(Hear.) Was
it for this that all the counties sad corporations of England
met? Was it for this that all our learned and religious so-

cieties assembled, at a period the most inconvenient, in order,
as they thought, to respond to the appeal of their Sovereign,
and to lose no time in assuring her Majesty of their deter-
mination to guard her authority and her supremacy? Was
it for this that the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge—
that the great city of London itself—went in solemn proces-
sion, in order to offer at the foot of the Throne the assurance

of their devotion? Was it for this that the electric tele-

graph conveyed her Majesty's response to these addresses,
that not an instant might be lost in re-assuring the courage
of the inhabitants of the metropolis?—(hear, and a laugh.)
And what are these remedies? Some Roman Catholic priests

are to be prevented from taking tit'es which they had
already been prevented, to a very considerablo extent, from
taking by the existing law ; the only difference being that
now they are to be prevented from taking a territorial title
which had not been assumed by a prelate of the National
Church ; while it seems that to that provision there is to be
attached a penalty. But a penalty to what amount? One
of 40s. perhaps. That is not yet stated. A penalty of that
amount would, in my opinion, be worthy of the occasion.—
(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Is this all? Is a piece of petty
persecution all that we can devise on a solemn political ex-
igency of this vast importance? At the best a great politi-
cal exigency is met by a remedy purely technical. Not a
single principle is asserted—not a single principle is indicated
and, in my opinion, no substantial evil will be remedied.
—(Hear, hear.) But mark the address by which this in-
significant project is introduced. I grant you that between
the project and the proem the difference is most significant.
If the Noble Lord had been about to introduce a proposition
for the revival of the penal laws—(Hear, hear) the pro-
portions of his speech could not have been more colossal.
(Hear, and laughter.) Sir, I well remember when the let-
ter of the Noble Lord first appeared, in consequence of the
appeal which was made to me by my constituents, I recom-
mended them to pause before they acted, and thoroughly to
understand the question which was at issue. I told them it
was not sufficient to record their loyalty to the Crown, and
hurry on to some hasty, and, probably, some crude act of
legislation, but that this was a wide, a comprehensive ques-
tion, and that it was impossible to legislate for England on
the subject without at the same time legislating for Ireland.
—(Hear.) But mark the speech of the Minister to-night.
It is no longer the Papal aggression of October or November
that the Noble Lord lays down as the foundation of these
new laws. I find the Noble Lord going at once to Ireland.
—(Hear.) I find the Noble Lord taking as the basis of his
legislation the Synod of Thurles, and not the visit of Dr.
Wiseman to England. But after having treated the question
of the Synod of Thurles in a spirit, I am bound to admit,
worthy of the subject, what does the Noble Lord do? He
introduces a Bill which bears no reference whatever to the
Synod of Thurles—(Hear, hear)—or any synodal action in
any of the kingdoms of her Majesty. Why these are incon-
sistencies which, after three months of inconsistencies, I
confess excite my astonishment. I did expect that the
Government, atter their frequent Councils, and the oppor-
tunities which they possessed of becoming acquainted
with the state of public feeling on the subject, would
at least have brought in a measure consistent with
the exposition of the First Minister. Aad now, Sir, what
is the excuse, if I may use the term, or what is the reason
given by the Noble Lord to-night for this strange contrast
between his introductory statement and remedial proposal?
It is, forsooth, that he begins to believe that the business is
an insignificant one. How does the Noble Lord now describe
the Papal aggression?—the Papal aggression that for three
months, through the instrumentality of the Noble Lord, has
excited the passions of the whole people. The Pope's letter
is described to-night as a "blunder of the sudden." It is
now the opinion of the Noble Lord that, after all, the con-
duct of the Pope has been nothing more than a " blunder of
the sudden"—a somewhat strange phrase ; and, perhaps,
there may be some persons who may think letters of other
distinguished personages were but " blunders of the sudden."
—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But, Sir, I cannot admit that
the conduct of the Pope has been precipitate or not duly ma-
tured and considered. I form my opinion on the subject
from circumstances of public notoriety, and from the gra-
dual occurrences of incidents and events, which, I think,
might have well justified his Holiness in the course
which he adopted. When I recollect what has oc-
curred in Ireland and in the colonies with respect to
Roman Catholic bishops—when I recollect that the Viceroy
of Ireland, the representative of our Sovereign, has
been in indirect communication with the Pope him-
self—(Hear hear)—that he has expressed his veneration, his
high veneration, for the character of his Holiness—that he
has consulted him and deferred to his judgment—l cannot
agree to the allegation of the Noble Lord, that the con-
duct of the Pope, right or wrong, was a sudden act, or was
a course of behaviour or policy adopted without due
reason and due encouragement (Hear, hear, hear.)
But besides all that occurred in Ireland and in the
colonies with respect to the introduction of Roman Catholic
prelates ; besides the letter of Lord Clarendon—a:letter which
has never yet been vindicated—in which the Noble Lord
expressed for the Pope a feeling of veneration, and deferred
to his judgment—l cannot forget that, not very long ago, the
First Minister of the Crown expressed himself in the
manner I shall proceed to quote on the subject of the Roman
Catholic Relief Bill. The passage is one to which I referred the
other night from memory, but which, strange to say, nume-
rous as have been the quotations from the speeches of the
Noble Lord, has never yet been quoted during these debates.
According to our authoritative record thus spoke Lord John
Russell in the month of July, 1845:" He believed they
might repeal those disallowing clauses which prevented a
Roman Catholic bishop assuming a title held by a hishoP °I
the Established Chureh."—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Loeardr
saw no objection whatever a few years ago,
ya
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pt to
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then to Cardinal Wiseman'e to
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styling himself Archbishop of Canterb
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The Noble Lord proceeded as followsetitall—huee:
of this
duly
on a sub'
ceive any good grounds forsethdeian
tion."--.(Hear, hear.) Now,t does e Lord suppose
and duly knows
of
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d i noted
of _ nown
suchth a t the opinions sinotfesroesetmaesirneennot
—that such opinions expressed
man are
not
td
when_ the Popee was aware that these
suchiie a ar
pwreerseentthaeti°vPeinoif°onusr7Sovereign was himself indirectly commu-
nicating with him in a tone of deferential homage—when he
might read in the records of the Irish Court that his arch-
b bishops
thstoe co thek highest precedence—(Year)—l
ask the House is it just, is it fair, is the Noble Lord autho-
risedonduct of the Pope was " a blunder
o
Sir, I do not enter into the question
whethermhit 0
upona thicommunicationsß subject.
fishPtoe s
statesnudd bd en that?
But afdwill e ors
say, that
to mu).:3 Lordhhave
was
ahis made
heard details to-night which prove that some communica-
tion was made; and certainly I am very much surprised
that an envoy on a mission so confidential, after having
been appnsect by the candour of his Holiness that there was
something which touched England nearly, should never
have had the curiosity to ask what it was—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear")—that he should never have had the curiosity
to say " Pray, what is it?"—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
In his next mission I have no doubt that Lord Minto will
profit by his past experience; and I must say, that of all
the public men employed in public missions, Lord Minto
has rue the most ;mailable couroo.—(lioar, heir, and