The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-18 00:00:00

POLITICAL UNIONS.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA wished to know whether
it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to
bring forward any measures for the suppression of political
unions ? He could assure the Noble Earl, in bringing
forward the question, he was not actuated by party or
factious motives, but by a sincere desire to pro-
mote that which he felt would contribute so much

to the good of the country, In his opinion it was quite

impossible to look at these Unions and the manner in
which they acted, and not consider their whole conduct
inconsistent with the spirit of the constitwion, and calcu-
lated to beproductive ofgreat mischief through the country.
He was convinced that it was the duty of Government to
take this question into consideration, for if the subject
was delayed, it was probable the Noble Earl would him-
self be under the necessity of calling on their Lordships to
press coercive measures, in order to preserve the peace of
this country.
Earl GREY felt quite satisfied that the Noble Earl
had acted as he had professed without any disposition to
anything like a factious object in putting the ques-
tion he had done—(Hear, hear)—and that he had
been only actuated by a sincere desire to promote the
public interest and the general security of the empire.—
(Hear.) The Noble Earl had been pleased to say it was
the interest of the Government also. He could assure
him the Government would never neglect its duty in
proposing to that or any other House, measures
that might be necessary for the public good—(Hear, hear)
—but it did not appear to him necessary at pre,,ent to in-
troduce any new law with respect to Politicll Unions. He
had stated to the House the nature of Political Unions.
When they were established permanently for the purpose
of exercising a control over the proceedings of Par-
liament, then they were inconsistent with good

government ; but he trusted the powers of the
law, as they at present existed, were quite suffi-
cient, without the intmduction of any new one. It
d d not appear to him, at the present moment, necessary
to introduce any new measures on the subject., and in

answer to the Noqe Earl's question, he begged to say
that his Majesty's Gevernment had no such intention.

Lord ELDON strongly deprecated those seditious pub-
lications which, during the last three years had so exten-
sively prevailed in this country, and which, if the
Law Officers had thought it fit to do their duty.

no new law would have been now required to put
down either them or the Political Unions. —(Hear.)
the common law of the land, after the Noble Lord oppo-
site had declared them to he inconsistent with good
government, was quite sufficient to put them down.
He would say that it was not only the duty of the
Law Offic,rs of the Crown, but it was the duty of
those who wished to protect the monarchy of the
country, and the constitution and privileges of that House,
by the timely application of the common law of the land,
to put down such scandalous, seditious, and dangerous
publications. He well remembered, and no one could
forget, that because a Special Commission had been re-
fused to be sent to Nottingham at the time of the detes•
table crimes which happened there some time ago, in

three months afterwards the Bristol riots took place. It was in
cons quence, be felt persuaded, of the Nottingham riots not
bug properly attended to, that the Bristol conflagrations
had disgraced the country. After this he received an account
from a gentleman of Bristol of the distribution of those infa-
mou.ly seditious papers, and that the burnings there were to
be ascribed entirely to the circulation which they had gained.
Toe Attorney- General however, did not think it worth his
while to go down to Nottingham, although he bad
been obliged to proceed to Bristol. He now called
upon the Noble Lord, while the common law of the
country was sufficient, to put down the Political Unions;
if not, he would be held amenable for the consequences
which might result.

Lord MELBOURNE agreed with the Noble Lord that
unions, whether political, or formed for the purpose
of dictating to their masters respecting trade, were
in the highest degree pernicious, tended to the disadvantage
of these engaged in them, and were alike inconsistent
with the well-being of the country, and the principles of
good government ; but the Noble and Learned Lord who
hed spoken last, had introduced fresh 'natter on this occa-

eion, and referred to those numerous publications of a
seditious character which he thought undoubtedly
ought to engage the attention of Government. Every one
vas aware that the subject of prosecutions for libels was a
question of prudence and expediency ; and no one, he
was Siiiep should better know that than Members of
the late Administration,' who had instituted, whether
propeely or Int, a great number of prosecutions, certainly
without muen sncpess. At the same time he roust say
that the most effectual measures bad been adopted
by his /I,dajesty's Government to powent the pub-
lication end dietribntion pf such publications,—(Hear,
of the most Seditious
hear, hear.) 'fee nersOO.
,Whri bud been principally
prizsn under a pro-
aenn4gagveiodieitn f tthheesep,uiliacsab::,:w
in
secution of the Stamp-office ; and had for a considere
time been en. The most greso and seditious of the others
had been lately selected for prosecution by those Law Offi-
cers of the Crown whom the Noble and Learned Lord
had charged with a neglePt of duty in that respect.
We were bound to consider whether the prosecution of
improper publications would not draw public attention
to them, and make their authors the object of com-
passion instead of hatred. The Noble Lord had paid, with
respect to the Political Palm, what he had heard him
say upon many other occasions—" Why have recourse
to new statutes when you have all powerful common law ?"
Now the common lc,w was as powerful and efficient when
the Nob!e and Learned Lord sat upon the Woolsack, and
almost presided in the Councils Of the Crown? and yet
that tioble and Learned Lord had let pass libels as nuthe-
rous and virulent qs )10 been suffered to pass by the
present Government. The I ohhle and Learned Earl
had and said they would
not tose of Nottingham
pass with impunity; but the Noble and
alsoba Save
alluded
occurred, to the
had liristo
not
o rtiots t
h' en suffered to
Learned Earl forgct that those riots occurred within
two or three weeks of each other—(Loud cheers)—.
that both of the riots arose out of the rejection of the
:t4.lorin Bill by their Lordships in October.---(Loud

Cheers)—and that a special commission Was sent to
Nottingham, as well as Bristol, under which three
men were executed.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was
true that the Attorney• General went to Bristol, and not
to Nottingham ; but the fact of his b-ing their represen-
tative for that borough was surely a sufficient reason why
in decency and common sense, he should not go there
under the pre-existing circumstances.—(Hear.) The
Noble and Learned Lord might depend upon it that the
Government was determined to maintain the supremacy
of the law.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—The Noble Earl
had spoken of the good sense of the people putting down
political unions. The political unions, however, still
existed, and the only proof of good sense they or the
people had shown was, a hearty detestation and contempt
of his (Lord Grey's) Administration.
Lord SEAGRAVE begged to observe that the political
unions would long since have been dissolved had it not
been for the exertions of Noble Lords opposite, in forming
other political associations, under the nature of Conser-
vative Clubs.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Lord ELDON said there would have been no Conser-
vative Clubs, had there not been political unions.
Lord SEAG RAVE said the political unions would now
have been dissolved had it not been for the subsequent
establishment of Conservative Clubs.—( Hear- )
Lord ELDON defied the Noble Lord to prove that as-
sertion.—(A laugh.)
LOCAL COURTS' BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that in rising to
move the order of the day for the House going into Com-
mittee on this Bill he was sure he need not enter at any
length into a subject upon which he had so often spoken.
I cannot but congratulate (said his Lordship) the House
on so largean attendance on the present occasion. It shows
that you are alive to the great importance of this subject
—it shows that you are come here to discuss it with that
calmness which its magnitude and its interests demand,
and gives the most reasonable expectations to those who
befriend the measure, that all the principles upon which
it is grounded, and all the details of which it consists,
will meet with that patient consideration which their
great magnitude requires. As long as your Lordships
continue to discharge your duty—as long as you
persevere in showing yourselves attentive to the interests
of your fellow countrymen—as long as you condescend,
not merely to entertain but even favourably to meet
any proposition for improving the condition of the
people, for amending the laws, for providing
for the administration of justice, and as long even
as you show yourselves willing to yield to the feelings
of your fellow-countrymen when they are universally
expressed, and whe❑ you can, consistently with your duty
and your conscience, yield to them, so long unions may
combine and meetings may assemble, and the licentiousness
of the press mly be expended, it will all assail your
Lordships in vain ; and even those threats, to which my
Noble Friend has recently alluded, will fall perfectly
harmless before the House of Peers. My Lords, when I
first introduced this measure, two years ago, I stated
as the groundwork of the plan, and, indeed, the prin-
cipal inducement I had was, the acknowledged defects in
the existing judicatures of the country to afford relief to

suitors, generally speaking, upon claims for small amounts.
But the expenses of the Court of Westminster, and the
expenses and various other defects of the inferior Courts in
the country, almost amounted to a denial of justice. He
appealed to the experience and observation of the House,
whether he had on the first introduction of the Bill, done
more than make a little statement of the nature of it,
without going into all the details. It was afterwards
suggested by a Noble and Learned Friend of his, that the
Bill should be referred to the Common Law Commis-
sioners, in order that they might enter into the considera-
tion of the subject and examine its various points
and bearings. To that proposition he acceded, and those
learned persons who undertook that task had presented their
opinion. He now begged leave to illustrate from that re-
port his assertion as to the denial of justice which the
present administration of the law inflicted, and be prayed
their Lordships' attention to one or two facts. There had
been either examined, or communications had been
received, from between 370 and 400 persons, whom he
would place under two classes—(Hear, hear)—the first
being the practitioners of the law, and the other the sub-
jects, or, more properly speaking, the objects of the law
—he meant the objects of relief by all such mea-
sures as the present.—(Hear.) He was not disposed
by any means to believe that the evidence furnished
by the lawyers themselves, particularly by that
respectable portion of them who practised in the country,
was less strong than the evidence of those who it might
he supposed would be most affected by the Bill. But
the evidence of the solicitors in the country admitted the
defects, and stated the necessity for the remedy. There were,
however, two or three exceptions; for instance, one eminent
practitioner said, that he had broughtthousands of actions,
but he had felt no inconvenience, either from delay
or expense. That might probably be very true, but
it was, nevertheless, true, that the very same person
added that other parties were not in the some position, for
that the party who lost suffered more inconvenience than
was necessary, and paid more than was necessary for a new
suit ; the party gaining paid more and gained less than he
ought, and also that he found the expense of the local
jurisdictions such as required a remedy. The general
aspect of the evidence, however, was perfectly in
accordance with the present measure.—( Hear, hear.)
But there was no exception whatever among the other
class, those who were not the practitioners of the law,
but the subjects, and as he had said the objects of the law—
those who were the prey of the laws; and when he said
prey of the laws, lie meant only to say that, under the
present system, prey they must necessarily be; but that
the system, profitable to neither party, was actually
ruinous to one of them. He would give them one or two
instances, and then leave them to judge whether he had
coloured too highly the picture of our judicial institutions.
The Noble and Learned Lord here read some of the
answers from the Law Cornmitioioners' Report. The first
was from the banking-house at Ledbury ; then from that
of Ahergavenny ; from a committee at Leicester; from
the Colebrook Dale Iron Company ; and from the retail
dealers of Fenchurch-street. .4111 those parties expressed
the same opinion, the substance of which W3S, that small
debts were often given up rather than payment enforced,
on account of the expense of a suit; that debtors, know-
ing this, often contracted debts which they determined
never to pay, and that, consequently, the present system
produced a bad moral effect on the country; that as it thus
affected matters of trading in one way, it produced also in
another way a had effect, for if a man was charged with a
debt, which he had either paid or never owed, he was
afraid to contest it, but would rather pay 51. or 10/., or
even HU. un'u,tly, than go into a court of law success-
fully to defend himself. To those parties be might add
the testimony of a learned sergeant, who had presided in
one of our small debts' courts, and who said that it was
no uncommon thing for parties to sacrifice a claim of
Si. or 101., or even 131., and reduce their demand to less
than 405., in order to bring their claim into the Small
Debt Court. All these facts had made the Commis-
sioners thus report to his Majesty We believe the
complaints made by numbers, whose evidence is stated
in the appendix to this report, to be just, that creditors
are, from a avant of sufficient means to obtain redress,
obliged to abandon their just demands; that debtors are
from the same cause, tempted to a dishonest resistance,
and that the result is great injury to public morals and to
ptivate right." There was no one thing that tended
more to alienate the minds of men from the Government,
and contributed to weaken their affections for that Go-
vernment, and to spread amongst them less respect for
the laws under which they lived, and according to which
they ought to govern their conduct, than finding that
these laws did not afford that protection which every sub-
ject had a right to, as well with regard to his property as
his person. All men agreed with him as to the exist-
ence of the evil, and the necessity of applying a re-
medy. The question was, what that remedy was? He
had never heard but of one plan except this, and the
proposition for altering the jurisdiction of the County
Courts. One witness, an honourable and active magistrate,
proposed to tile all the business of a kind small in
amount to the quarter sessions. There 11744 something
ao wild and so implacticable in loading the sessions,
already overloaded with business, which they performed
gratuitously,that he thought he might dispense with
tieing more than merely mentioning the plan. The other
plan was, the improvement 3f the County Courts. He
agreed with the Commissioners, that the defects of these
Courts were such, that, as he once heard it said of a par.

;ieuiar ;t were easier to make a new one than to

mend this. Their jurisdiction was limited to 405, except
in certain cases ; and then the cases, if Lrought there,
could he rpinoved to the superior courts, without any se-
curity being given for debt or pots. Then the system
of pleading was nearly as operose and intricate as in the
superior courts; but the Stitute of Amendments did not
apply to these County Courts, although to those Courts
they ought to be applicable,
as they must be more needed
in paces where the s4ilf4l men of the law were not
accustomed to practise. Then, again, there might be a
delay of five months, and the expense of recovering
debt of 40s. might he 51., and by the writ of Justices
would be considerably more, indepentJently of the expense
occasioned by the distance of the residemie of the parties
or the witnesses. In some counties they had to travel 50
miles, and the expense of this travelling, and of conti-
nuing at the town where the Court was held until the

suit was determined, was so considerable, that, in the
evidence appended to the Report, it had been called
" the most terrifying part of the solicitor's bill."
Then, again, in the County Courts there were no
regular recorded judgments, nor any person to whom
the suitor could look with confidence. The Sheriff or
Under-Sheriff generally appointed an Assessor; but that
Assessor might be changed each year by the Sheriff, and
the constitution of the County Court did not necessarily
carry with it the means of gaining the respect and con-
fidence of the suitor. But then it was said that the prac-
tice of the County Court might be altered, that a regular
Judge might be appointed, that he might be directed to
visit the different parts of his county, and to go a circuit
through it at different times. It was true that all this
might be done, and so the Court might be altered in every
particular; but then, what would be left of the County
Court that it could still properly be called the County
Court? It was once administered by the highest man in
the county, and the suitors, or Judges, for they were both,
were the freeholders at large. It had long ceased to be the
Court of the people, and they were now told to change all
its process—all the pleadings—all the practice—to change
tke site and the sittings of the Court, but to retain its
name. Why, if all this were changed, the Court had bet-
ter be changed altogether ; in short, they had better make
a new Court, and then they would not be hampered with
old forms and with the effect of vested interests.—(Hear,
hear.) He called on them, therefore, to do fairly,
openly, and manfully, what they really meant to do in
disguise—he called on them to establish the Local
Courts. Why, as to the County Courts, it would be
impossible to retain even the name, for one great g,.ievance
was that the county was sometimes too large and some-
times too contracted. County Court it could not be,
when in some counties, nay, in some parts of counties,
there roust be more than one Judge ; as, for instance, in
Lancashire and in Yorkshire, in the latter of which there
must be not only more than one Judge for a county, but
as in the case of the West Riding, more than one for a
division of a county. It could no longer be a County
Court under such ci-cutnstances, nor could it be so when
two or three counties were moulded into one for the esta-
blishment of a court. It could no longer then retain even
the name. The necessity for the Local Court he should
show by stating to them the number of small cases that
had come before the superior Courts of Westminster. In
1827 there were 93,000 affidavits of debt for sums above
10/. Of these 78,000 were for sums under 100/. ; and
of these again 30,000 were for sums between 201. and
301. Nor was that proportion peculiar to the affidavits
for debt ; it existed not only in the causes thus begun, but
in those that went to trial. In 1830 there were 890
actions tried, and the verdicts in 330 of these were ver-
dicts for sums under 201., and he once recollected having
seen an assize at Lancaster, in which the average of the
whole verdicts was 141. odd shillings, or less than 15/.,
though that was, according to the then state of the law,
the lowest suns for which a man could be arrested. That
observation, however, need not be confined to the Northern
Circuit. On the Oxford Circuit in the years 1829 and
1830, the average number of cases tried was 340, and
of that number in 160 there were verdicts fur less than
20/. He knew that these statements might operate with
Noble Lords to make them cautious in dealing with sub-
jects of such importance; but at the same time, when the
subject was well considered, they were at least equally
calculated to create in them a leaning to apply a remedy
to the evil mentioned in the report—a remedy that should
allow men to sue for money that was really due to them,
so that such a vast mass of persons should not as now lose
more than they gained even in the event of success, that
these persons should no longer give up all claim of their
rights, because their loss was better to suffer than would be
their condition if they brought their claim into Court, and
successfully vindicated it; since then, though they might ob-
tain judgment, and nominally have costs awarded, they
would have more to pay than they could possibly hope to
receive. In Scotland they had long known and appre-
ciated the inestimable blessings which these local jurisdic-
tions conferred. That the advantages there had been of
the highest consequence to the whole of society, there
could indeed be no doubt. He was, however, equally
ready to admit that imperfections had been discovered in
that system. If that system, however, were never im-
proved—if those imperfections were never wiped away,
England might still look with envy at the legal establish.
ments of Scotland, for without figure, and without exag
geration, they were immeasurably superior to her own.
The sy stem in Scotland, it might be said, wis capable of
being cheapened ; but a suitor could still recover a debt of
121. (if undefended)—.yes, obtain his judgment, and the
fruits of thatjudernent, at a cost not exceeding ten shillings.
So a debt of 251. could be recovered for fifteen shillings ;
and in an acti.n for 1001. there would be a difference of
twenty shillings between the taxed costs and the extra
costs. Then to show the quantity of business which had
been transacted. Exclusive of the small debt courts,
which had jurisdiction to the amount of five pounds, for
an uver,ge of three years, ending in 1823, there had
been yearly, in these courts in Scotland, no less than
twenty-two thousand causes. On these there had
been 170 appeals, of which not above one half were ever
prosecuted. The amount of property, he should observe,
here disposed of was no less than half a million. He men-
tioned these facts in illustration, and he was sure nothing
more eras necessary to convince their Lordships or the
public of the immense advantages which this system would
bestow. Amongst several other matters which Lad of
course sprung up in connection with this subject, was one
which he admitted was of importance, and that was the
question of compensation. The Bill under consideration
said nothing of that, and be should not then further touch
upon it. The opinion of the Commissioners was, that all
the small debt jur,sdictions at present existing should
ultimately be done away with ; and he strongly inclined to
the same opinion, conceiving they had better merge in the
local courts. But he was also of opinion, and he did not
doubt those Learned Commissioners would agree in that
opinion—that as they could not at first be aware how
much business these new Courts might be capable of, they
should leave that question an open one. In the discussion
of these matters a question had always arisen, which,
though it more peculiarly belonged to the other House, yet
he could not help touching upon. That was how the
Judges of these Courts were to be pa'd, and the ex-
penses of the new establishments defrayed. There was
always one course which, in his opinion, it was the
wisest and the best to maintain, if it could be
done ; but if they were unable to do this, they
must find another. There was no doubt that it was
the duty of the Government to provide for the subject—
there was no doubt it was the right of the governed to

look to the Government for justice at the public expense—
that the suitor should not have to pay anything btyond
those necessary charges for counsel, witnesses, and attor-
neys, which no system could remedy. He perfectly agreed
in the opinion so often expressed by that great man,
Mr. Bentham, that there was no law more foolish none
more absurd than that which imposed a tax upon law
proceedings. Having thus guarded himself from the
chance of being misunderstood, he should mere:), express
his regret that any necessity should arise for a system of
payment by fees. Lie had already beforehand entered his
protest most decidedly against it ; if they had no money
to give away for such a purpose, it could not be helped
—all they had to do was to get it in the best way they
could; but he must express his perfect coincidence of
opinion with that celebrated jurist he had just mentioned,
that any tax that could be devised was better than a tax
on law. There was another general remark he had to
make. He trusted this measure would not be thwarted
by the selfishness of persons in a particular profession. On
a former occasion, when an excellent Bill was introduced
and carried through that House, on arriving at the Com-
mons it was shorn of some of its best clauses. But he trusted

it would not be so in this instance. Bishop Burnet says, that
when Lord Somers brought forward the Bill in question, it
was " found to affect clerks and under officers, whose
interests were more considered than those of the nation
itself, and several clauses were left out by the Commons in
consequence." He hoped this Bill would not be worked
down by such means or from such motives as those be had
been detailing. The last observation he had to make re-
ferred to the changes introduced into the Bill since he bad

first submitted it to Parliament. When he had first pro_
posed the measure to the other House, it was with a juris-
diction in some cases of 1001.—in others of 501. This
was in the present Bill reduced to 201., in deference to the

reasons suggested by the Law Commissioners—that in the
first instance it would he more prudent to go on with a
small amount, which might hereafter be increased. The
Bill did not go at once over the country, bnt gave a power
to his Majesty—a wise and expedient one in his opinion—to

extend itrto certain districts, The measure was certainly
an experimental one, but that in his view was its highest
h n his
ownoniour.t could be
b afterwards modified by experience,
and ts machinery aduet
when inore
rr
complete.pelcetted e.
by No
experience,doubtl ad
he as
it would be in the course of a very few months, it would
lay the foundation of a perfect system—one that would
secure to his Majesty's subjects their just rights, and leave
no pretence for duepirsi,vringsaitdhemthaotf
wehheeanp,heisffecNtuoball,e
and
and
Lea
universal justiee.—(lear, hear.)
Lordrned Friend LYNuPR
d had on a former occasion introduced the
principle of the Pill to their 4ordehips, and gone also into
detail, he bad then declared his readiness to give to the
measure his most serious consideration, and bad pledged
himself to give it his support if he conscientiously believed
that it would conduce to the public good. He had in pur-

nuance of that pledge, from time to time, tut
tention to the Bill, and lie was now compelled
he did so with unfeigned regret, that he could
it his support in the shape in which it was
their Lordships. If he were compelled to
conclusion, supported by his own judgment
should feel the utmost diffidence in expressing
but such was not the case. lie had referred to
authorities, and he found his views fully justif
concurrence. He had referred to gentlemen
of the profession, and, with very few exceptions,
that Westminster Hall was decidedly adverse to
sure of his Nob!e and Learned Friend. He kb-
might be said that the profession were interested,
deed his Noble Friend had insinuated that a
tion of it must be so, and he admitted that
many who might be and would be injuriously
the Bill ; but in speaking of the great body of
sion in Westminster Hall he alluded to none
(Hear, hear.) Their Lordships and the coma'
would acknowledge, and he even appealed to
and Learned Friend to confirm him in the .
the legal profession at large had never set it
terested motives in opposition to any proposed
the law, but had always shown itself ready and
forward the general good.—(Hear, hear.) T 1
to be considered was, whether or not the
change would be for the good of the country.
very we I that with many the cry of cheap la'
peditious law was extremely popular, but he
hoped that neither their Lordships nor the
would ever cease to bear in mind the great
tion between cheap and expeditious law at
and expeditious justice.—(Hear, hear, bee,
admitted the great knowledge and learning of
respectable gentleman sO.o had recommended
ple embodied in the Bill ; but he could not cot
himself the fact that one of those Learned Gems,
least disapproved of the extent to which it was I
push the principle, and that with respect to
there were many in the profession equally dial
with them who differed from them entirely as to
rableness of making the proposed experiment.
himself been the cause of the matter being referred
Commissioners, he had felt it to be his duty to retie
carefully the body of evidence upon ael,ich their .
dation had been made; and he s ,v, and
cidedly, that he had found in it 'waling to direct
from its first conclusion. He had examined care!
evidence of merchants, traders, and those coon,
commerce, and he found it throughout marked
strong, and indeed a violent, disposition to clot
the re-establishment of all the offensive laws svi
ever existed against debtors. They were anxit
the whole system of the Insolvent Court swel
Souse of them went so far—and surely it must
smile even from his Noble and Learned Fries.
them went so far as to recommend that tribunals
established solely for the trial of commercial mat
such tribunals should be under the presidency
commercial men, and that under those tribunals
of law should be abolished.—(Hear and a laugh.)
when he found such evidence, and that it
relied upon to show that the measure was
of by commercial men, he could not but turn
nought, and refer again for judgment on the
to authority and reason. So much then for
of the Commissioners, and the evidence by whit
commendations were sustained. He admitted tls
the present system there were many inconveniei
perhaps hardships ; but surely he need not rent
Lordships that imperfection was the fate of all
inventions. It had hitherto been found imp'
devise any scheme in which there would not be e.
manifold inconveniences ; but the question now
considered was, not merely what were the inr
of the present system, but whether those int
were likely to be remedied by the change prof
also whether the acknowledged and undisputed
nwtv enjoyed were likely to be preserved. At
time he had attended to the treatment of it
thought he should be able to point out to their
how much of the inconvenience complained of
obviated without risking the possession of the g
vantages the nation at present enjoyed, anti dislocai
system under which they were secured. When tt
called upon to alter the present system it would
first to examine into what they were to part with
try whether the experiment ought to be made.
was the effect of the present system of English jut
What was the character it universally enjoyed
what was the effect it produced ? It was ever
not only in this country, but throughout the
world, pronounced to be pure, impartial, eve
suspicion. So completely was that the case,
thoroughly rooted was the impression, that peopl
once thought that the system which had led to
state of things might be destroyed. That was
satnatue of security,
nsuilieds for
ystem it
of
judicature;
wa fu s
but
d he the
an unsullied system of judicature; but he cal
Lordships to throw their minds back to other k
and to weigh well the consequences of other systems.
other countries he need hardly call upon the
refer, for it was a universally admitted fact that the
system was not equalled in any other country on a
the globe.—(Hear.) And what was the cot
of this system ? Why, its precision was so mart
not more than one case out of every fifteen cot.
was brought to trial. A party, on conceiving be
claim, consulted with his attorney, who soon
him with the actual state of the law, and told bb
tively how the fact stood, which generally led to a
shin of the litigation. The character of the systeab
fore, was not developed merely in the decisions it ,
in Court, but also in the cases it prevented from'
into Court.—( Hear.) And to what was that effect
ascribed ? Why, to the central system of judicature
blished—(Hear)—to the habit of constant cal
tion with each other by a small number of Jut
the exercise of their duties in the presence of a
telligent, and independent Bar, and is the face of tls
munity. These arrangements secured a certainty
vision, of purity, of efficiency in the decrees of the o
These were among the advantages of the system, agja,
were among the chief of the causes to which those
bases were to be attributed. The Judges, thus art'
and thus qualified, made the circuit of the proviociegii'etle'
there they dispensed justice in the same spirit 1100 d/
the same provisions. If error was committed th:ectidee
an immediate appeal, and that error was at once IA
by a short application to a Court of the assembled oe°
at Westminster Hall. Such was the system at I:
existing, and be had thought it right to point oot.i
to their Lordships the principles upon whieb
founded, in order that they might be kept in viesvtioll
the proposition for a change was under considers
He admitted to his Noble and Learned Friend !boils'
importance of the subject, and feeling that press o's e
0;
he had consulted the highest known authoritie''slOi.,
turning to Sir W. Blackstone he found that the, ja
principle for which his Noble and Learned Friend gro
Bill contended was distinctly controverted, anti tbeo 01:
principle upon which the present admirable sYte Olobt,'f
founded was fully recognised and supported. (I'4o'l
and Learned Lord then read an extract from the P-Oer'
Sir AV. Blsckstone, in which the advantages of the, peter'
system were mainly attributed to its central el jed 1,1
which necessarily insured able and just Judges, atVestrsJ
uniformity and certainty in their decisions.) Tbe.,,,en
also pointed out that such results could not be e'r,isslori
from a system in which were a number of Proc,eiso
Judges, who would almost necessarily in the c_rkr j
time prove much worse educated than those °ll.lv
central system, and likely to imbibe local prejudi'Llech
to be suspected of partiality, if not justly open to ships Op
picion.—(Hear.) But let him remind their Lord' dirt; p
if this Bill were adopted they would be proe'ed Ifeee,
an inverse order. The system now proposed 11,'0,00„
formerly acted upon, and it had been found BO 'l3e ce;9
nient, so injurious to justice, so unsatisfactory to ivee
munity, that it had been abandoned and entirely g of 1,
for the present form of judicature. The repot,
Lords Commissioners hinted at the authority cif
Hale, and his Noble and Learned Friend bad bele fedos
to seek for strength from the same source, but
siolet!os,
that eminent lawyer wholly opposed to the prita:_rerstl.o
sought to be revived, and once again put into P ftj's,
(The Noble and Learned Lord then read an extracttedctiot
the writings of Sir M. Hale, in which it V"' di
al
Pi
~cll
in the reign of Edward I. the system of provinso'S Ceres
was tried by the means of County Courts
those Coal
Baron (very superior Courts as constituted to :coo
re,
posed by the Bill of his Noble and Learned ,seP4a
found to be so defective that it was superseded u,_l4 elf8:01
sent system. The first great reason given for tu.sroria,:ei,
.vas the ignorance of the Judges under tbe.rt, otfoes
system ; the second reason was the great vallev
goilar 'reit
sions the provincial Judges came to in s'a,osost
thereby leading to a separate practice for &every bps
county ; and the third great reason was, that C
nem of
any moment was carried in the prof.w.chere'
se
remedy by appeal in a case of wrong, yet
Edward
0 ,
was unsatisfactory, and therefore King Edwa.._
adett'o,
by party or factious influence ; that although rbeofo
whole case into his consideration, anti with t,udeivislealio/
Ids Parliament appointed internal Judges, "a
by his
formerly in force and had been superseded, 1,..0uge of,
the ignorance of the Judges it created ; 2. br•Lbioh
great variety of decisions upon sitnilar point' "
actrvonctarytedintbo andheLesay:nteemd Ftrhie'or-edbfoebret?o,74

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