The Sun.
London, England, 1833-08-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, AUGUST 23.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at 20 minutes before five o'clock, and moved the
committal of the Dower Bill. He said it was a great im-
provement of the law, and was strongly recommended by
the Commissioners appointed to inquire into real property.
He trusted it would meet with a favourable consideration
from their Lordships.
Lord WYNFORD said he was entirely at the mercy of
his Noble and Learned Friend, and hoped he would use
his power in a sparing manner. He had read over
the Report of the Commmissioners, and be confessed that
he had not seen one reason for such an alteration in the
law, except it was intended as a boon to the practitioners
of the law, for not one Bill passed for the improvement of
the law but gave them more employment. He trusted,
therefore, their Lordships would agree with his motion,
that it be committed that day three months.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
Contents 7
Non-Contents 3
Majority 4

The Bill then went through a Committee, and was or-
dered to be read a third time to-morrow.
The Inheritance Bill went through a Committee, and
was ordered to be read a third time on Monday.
The Bishop of LONDON laid upon the table the
Thirteenth Report of the Commissioners for Building
Churches.
On the order of the day being moved for the House
going into Committee on the
BANK CHARTER BILL,
The Earl of RIPON said, that though their Lordships
had agreed that the second reading should take place
without any explanation being required from him of the
object and details of the Bill, it was his duty nevertheless
on the present occasion, to give the outline of the mea-
sure. Their Lordships were aware that by the law, as it
now stood, the Charter of the Bank was liable to be
determined at any period after August, 1834, upon having
twelve months' notice of its intended termination.
Consequently it has been deemed advisable that a new ar-
rangement should be made, giving the Bank a renewal of
their Charter, as far as was consistent with the interest of
the public. The proposed renewal gave the Bank a con-
siderable portion of the advantages it had previously enjoyed.
As to the maintenance of a great banking concern like the
Bank of England, with its exclusive privileges and
advantages, great difference of opinion existed ; many
thought it was by no means advisable to the public
interest that such a Commission should exist ; others
entertained a contrary opinion, and if upon the compari-
son of the reasoning on the different views of the subject,
that reasoning had been found to preponderate in favour of
the latter, undoubtedly it would not have been advisable
to have adopted the course that had been pursued. But
considering the nature of the institution—the length of
time it had existed—the degree to which its concerns were
mixed up, not only with Government, but with the commer-
cial transactions in every part of England, he was sure that
their Lordships would be of opinion that it would have
been unwise in Parliament to have availed irself of its
power to extinguish this Corporation. This subject was
not new to their Lordships ; it had been investigated by
a Committee of the other Hoot) and the report
was now before their Lordships. Many objections
bad been tnVe, as to that sort of connection which
existed between theßank and Government ; and also as
to the power the Bank had of regulating the circulation
of the country, as it was thought that might tend to abuse.
But, in his opinion, the mere possibility of tending to
abuse was no reason why the public should be deprived of
the great advantages they derived from such an institution,
both commercially and financially. The Government
had therefore thought that the Bank ought still to
remain entrusted with considerable powers, and the
question then was—on what terms and in what manner
those powers should be given, and this great body in future
be conducted? He would now proceed to state what were
the nature of the provisions under which the Bank er,-

joyed certain privileges, and would point out the moditica.

tions proposed. The second clause enacted that during
such privilege no banking company of more than six
partners should issue notes payable on demand in London
or within 65 miles. Tbat was merely are-
enactment of previous statutes, it not having been
thought expedient to circumscribe that circle. The
next provision involved something of novelty. After
reciting the existence of doubts as to the operation of
the Bank Charter Act, with respect to the right of
banks having not more than six partners to issue notes
payable on demand, the clause authorized the formation
of banks of deposit in London, or within sixty-five
miles, although consisting of more than six partners.
There were certainly great authorities on both sides of
the question, but those to whom the Crown were in the
habit of referring were of opinion that by the existing
law there was no objection to the establishment of
joint stock branches of deposit within the circle
of sixty-five miles round London.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
However, in consequence of the doubts which had been
expressed, it was thought advisable to settle the question
by a clause in the present Bill, for at a period when the
question had been raised and public attention drawn to it,
it would have been a dereliction of duty on the part of
Ministers if they had not taken the present opportunity to
declare what the law was. It was therefore provided that
joint-stock banks of deposit of more than six partners
might be established within sixty-five miles of London.
—(Hear, hear.) Indeed, he could not see any ob-
jection in principle to the establishment of such banks, nor
could he see in what way they would interfere with the
privileges of the Bank of England. The sixth clause was
one of very considerable importance, and it would be his
duty to explain it to the House. It was that which made
Bank notes a legal tender. That proposition might at first
sight appear somewhat startling, and it might be said as
an objection, that it would allow the Bank to issue its
own notes to au injurious extent. It he could think that
it was calculated to produce any such result, he
would be the last person to recommend it to the
adoption of the House.--(Hear, hear.) The country
had already suffered enough from fluctuation of the
currency which at times might be justified by the imme.
diate pressure of the case. Any thing therefore tending
to renew such a state of things was not desirable, but he
contended this clause would have no snch effect; indeed
it was so worded as not to preclude Parliament from deal-
ing with the subject at any time, and it was not, strictly
speaking, in terms of a positive bargain, for the words were
" unless and until Parliament should further direct, Lee."
It was competent, therefore, for Parliament at any time to
revise that part of the case, and to act as might be deem-
ed expedient. There was a limitation to that privilege
to notes of Si., so that supposing a person had to pay Si.,
he could only tender a 51. note legally, and 3 sovereigns.
In any supposable circumstances, which, however, he
thought not likely to occur, but which might occur
in a great political or commercial panic, he could not
hut think that the existence of the provision would
be a great security not only to the country hut to the Bank
itself, whose habit was not to retain in its coffers more
than the average of 1-20th part of their circulation of
issues, and it was therefore clear that the issuing of bank
of England paper would be one of the greatest secu-
rities they could enjoy. Indeed that was proved in
1655, when there was no doubt but that great
advantage was derived from the issuing of notes, which
might be said to have been one of the causes of
stopping that calamity. And then, as far as regarded the
Bank of England, this would also fur.aish a great security.
When occasions of that sort occurred, the natural object
of all the country banks was to obtain with the utmost
rapidity, but at a very great expense, the largest
possible supplies of gold.--(Hear.) And then, at the
same moment other circumstances, either precedent or
concomitant, may have placed the Bank, and must
place it, under no inconsiderable difficulty in regard
to the supply of gold ; because the first effect

was, that the foreign ezaanges would be aping tbt.

country ; and it would then become more profitable
to export gold than produce of any other kind ; and the
Bank imperceptibly may, without its being known except
to the Company, be drained of a considerable portion
of its cash.—(Hear.) The effect of that would he,
necessarily to compel the Bank to diminish the issues;
the ultimate effects on the country banks would also be
that they would be driven to the necessity of controlling its
issues ; and, while this was going on, great changes, great
alarm, great inconvenience would take place throughout
tore country, producing a great tendency to a run on the
country bankers. These must then draw on the Bank of
England in order to meet their demands, and that took place
at the precise moment, when the Bank had previously
been deprived of a portion of its gold,so that it would have
comparatively a very reduced fund to draw upon, and
they would be placed in the greatest embarassment.
Thus then, permitting hank notes to he a legal tender,
except at the Bank itself, and the branch banks, except as
far as issued by themselves, was a mode by which all the
danger would be satisfactorily met, without being liable to
the charge of having a tendency to produce that danger,
because certainly if that tendency did exist, he should not
willingly recommend its adoption. The next provision
regarded the Usury Laws, which would be a great con-
venience in mercantile transactions, although it did not
affect the general principle of the laws. The next clause
enacted that Bills not having more than three months to
run should not be subject to the usury laws. Now, this
would certainly be of great convenience in mercantile
transactions. It did not affect the general principle of
the usury laws, on which, though he entertained a very
strong opinion, he would not be tempted to say a single
word on the present occasion. It was considered as a
great relief to commercial men, and on that ground he
should rest its justification. The next provision of the
Bill to which he had occasion to call the attention of their
Lordships was new, and in his opinion, of considerable
importance ; it was a provision which required a certain
pnblicity to he given to the amount of bullion and securi-
ties in the Bank of England, and to the amount of its
notes issued and in circulation. That subject had been
fully investigated before a Committee of the House of
Commons last year; and though there was some doubt
as to what the mode of proceeding ought to be, he
thought that the doubt was rather as to the time than as
to the principle of giving publicity to such accounts.
—(Hear, hear.) For his own part, he had never
been able to see what danger could arise to the Bank if
this degree of publicity existed. It had always appeared
to him that one of the evils of our banking system was,
that no man could make himself acquainted with the
amount of the circulation of Bank of England paper at any
given time. Great changes occasionally took place in the
amount of bank-notes in circulation, and in the supply of
gold in the coffers of the Bank to meet them. The
consequence was that all persons acting extensively in
commercial transactions were acting in the dark. They
might watch the turn of the exchanges, as the best crite-
rion of judging of the amount of paper in circulation,
but even that criterion was not always to be depended on;
and therefore he thought that it would be more satisfac-
tory to the public that it should know at stated periods
better than it did at present the amount of bank-notes in
circulation. In the Bank of France this publicity had
long prevailed. lie knew that circumstances were
cliff:rent in the two banks, for the circulation of paper in
France was indefinitely less than in this country; still he
had never heard that any disadvantage had arisen from
the publicity given to the accounts of the Bank of France.
At any rate, the Bank of England did not think that the
publicity required by this clause would lead to any incon-
venience which would prevent them from discharging
their duty properly towards themselves and the public
under the terms which this Bill was introduced to ratify.
The next clause was to authorize the Bank to reduce
the amount of its capital stock. The public were now
!_eitind to repay the Bark one-fourth part of the debt of
14,686,000/. borrowed in 1810, at which time the ca-
pital of the Bank was raised to its present amount. As
to the Bank itself, the repayment of the whole sum would
at present be an inconvenience ; and therefore they
only called for the repayment of 3,600,000/. After en-
tering into some explanations on this point, not dis-
tinctly heard in the gallery, the Noble Earl proceeded to
observe, that the only part of the Bill to which he now
had occasion to direct the attention of their Lordships was
that by which the Bank agreed to deduct the annual sum
of 120,0001. from the sum hitherto allowed to it by the
public for the management of the national debt. He
knew it had been said that in not getting a larger deduc-
tion than 120,0001. the Government had not sufficiently
consulted either the interest or the advantage of the public.
He admitted that Government might pOssibly have driven
the Bank to make a larger deduction than 120,000/.
but, considering the claims which the Bank had upon
the country, he thought that it would not have been a
wise course to have urged the Bank to a greater sacrifice
than could in reason be expected from it. The public had
great advantage over the Bank in making a contract of
this nature, and might, perhaps, drive the Bank to its oven
terms; but that was no reason why the public should
extort from the Bank terms which it was not fair for the
public, to ask. lie thought that, looking to the services
which the Bank had rendered and would again render to
the Government on the one hand, and to the public on the
other, it would not have been wise in the Government
to drive the Bank to the wall. When, therefore,
the Government came to discuss this question with
the Bank, the Government thought that by accept-
ing the reduction of 120,000/, which the Bank offered,
they made such terms with it on behalf of the public as
secured to the public an adequate compensation for the
advantages which the Bank derived from the public. He
called upon his Noble Friend the Duke of Wellington, who
had been his colleague in the administration in 1828, to
speak to the utility of the Bank on that occasion. He
was sure that no man was snore alive to the services which

it then rendered to the country, and upon that ground,
as well as upon the other grounds which he had stated,
he called upon their Lordships to ratify the contract
which in this Bill was made between the Bank and the
public. He had now done ; but before he closed his
observations he would say a word or two on another Bill,
at present before their Lordships, and closely connected
with the subject matter of this Bill. That was a Bill
by which it was provided that the country bankers should
keep accounts of the number of stamps consumed by them
to be transmitted to the Government, and this was a
very important branch of the sub.kt, inasmuch as great
difficulty had arisen from the Government not knowing
the extent of the circulation of country bankers.
The Duke of WELLINGTON asked whether the last
clause to which the Noble Earl had alluded was part of
the bargain with the Bank?
The Earl of RIPON said that it was.
The Duke of WELLINGTON quite agreed with the
Noble Earl as to the right of the Government to renew
the Charter of the Bank of England, as well as to their

right to make a bargain with the Bank Directors, but he
did not also agree with the Noble Earl that the Bank had
not been, except in some instances, dealt hardly by in that
bargain. He did not think that the Bank had been

:reated with quite so much forbearance as had been stated,

and he, indeed, believed that the Bank Directors thought
similarly themselves. He could not help thinking that
the sum of 120,0001. was a fair amount, and that there
was ❑o great reason on that score to complain that the
Bank had been favoured in the arrangement, because, in
paint of fact, the Bank had been obliged to reduce their
capital in order to make the payment required to the
Government. Therefore he could not help thinking that
the Government had gone rather too close to the wind in
this instance. The principal point, however, to which
he would call the attention of the house, in stating his
objections to this Bill, was that clause which makes bank-
notes a legal tender. To the principle of this clause he
was most decidedly opposed. He had always considered
that our system of circulation was based on the Lest
possible footing, that of a solid gold circulation ; the pay-
ments in retail, as it were, being in gold, and the larger
payments on credit ; that credit being supported by the
paper of which it consists being liable to be met by cash
Payments on demand at any time. This species of cer-
tainty appeared to him the pledge for the safety of the
currency; but it vet remained to be shown to him that,
under the arrangement proposed by this Bill, this certainty
and safety would continue. He did not mean to say that
under the proposed arrangement the bolder of a note
would not still be able to demand and obtain gold for that
note, but it did appear to him on the face of it that
the holder of a note would still be under the necessity of
giving credit somewhere. He considered that the effect
of the proposed plan would be to depreciate the paper of
the Bank of England, and, for his own part, be could not
see on what ground the Directors of the Bank had given
their aeseut to the erraugetueutp or why they had con•

tented to adopt it• He (the Duke of Wellington) was of
opinion that from the moment when Parliament sought to
attach to the paper of the Bank of England a value to which
it was not intrinsically entitled, they thereafter depreciated
that paper ; and that the sffects of that depreciation, in the
inconvenience and mischief which it would produce would
he severely felt, he was convinced. It must be intended
either to give to the paper of the Bank of England a value
which it did not, and could not, possess, or to depreciate
the general credit, and enable the country bankers to en-
gage in business to a much greater extent and with many
more facilities than they otherwise could. The Noble
Earl bad stated that the abject was to enable the country
bankers to make their issues in greater security than
under the present system, and the result would of course
be, that there would be a great increase of circulation, an
increase of prices, to be followed, whenever any revulsion
should occur, by the inevitable ruin of many individuals.
He (the Duke of Wellington) could not but prefer to
this the present system, under which the Bank could
regulate its issues according to the wants of the
country, forcing the country bankers to do the same
thing, by keuping within those limits the observance
of which was necesssary to the wholesome condition
of the commerce of the country. Then, again, some
parts of the arrangement appeared to him to be wholly ir-
regular. For instance, a note issued by the Bank of Eng-
land could not be paid at a branch bank, while, on the
other hand, the note of a branch bank was payable either
there or at the Bank of England. He was aware that the
legal tender clause had been, in Committee in the House
of Commons, altered from the state in which it was ori-
ginally presented to that House—that 51. notes were those
originally fixed upon; but he thought that even that
amount would be productive of inconvenience. The
Noble Earl had said that in discharge of a debt of 71. a
Si. note and 2 sovereigns would he a legal tender; but he
(the Duke of Wellington) was decidedly of opinion that
under this Bill no amount under 10/. would be a legal
tender. The fact would be, that the country bankers
would not give anything but Bank of England notes in
payment of their own notes, and that they would not give
gold unless paid 5 or 10 per cent. for so doing. When
such things as this came into operation, the fault and de-
fects of the measure would be discovered, and a degree of
distress would be produced greater than had ever occurred
throughout the world (Ireland, perhaps, excepted.) These
were the objections he had to this Bill, not only as
regarded the principle which regulated some of the clauses,
but also as to the details ; and he repeated that he thought
that a hard bargain hal been driven with the Bank. There
was one more most important point, however, to which
he must refer,—viz., that part of the Bill which the
Noble Earl included in the first part of his statement.
With respect to the provision as to the non-establish-
ment of certain banks within a certain distance round
London, he (the Duke of Wellington) understood that
the opinion first entertained by the Government bad
been that the banks of deposit could not, consist-
ently with existing laws, be established within those
limits; that this had been the state of the law during the
last 160 years ; and that, therefore, as the engagement
was that all the privileges then enjoyed by the Bank should
be secured to it, this prohibition to establish banks ought
to continue in force. Before, however, the Bill had
passed through all its stages in the other Home it teas, it
appeared, discovered that the law which it had been
supposed had existed during 160 years was, in reality,
no law at all; and that in fact, the Banks in question
might legally be established. In consequence of an opi-
nion to this effect having been given by an Hon. and
Learned Member for the other House, the Government
thought proper to introduce a clause into the Bill, de-
el firing that, in truth, the law was different from that
which during 160 years it had been supposed to have
been ; and lie (the Duke of Wellington) could not help
thinking that this had not been a very fair transaction o❑
the part of the House of Commons towards th.! Bank.
With respect to the private Banking system of London,
there could be no dopbt of the expediency of continuing
it, because for the last 160 years it had been the means
of affording facility and security to the intern al commerce
of the country. The private banks also benefitted the
Bank of England, because they made deposits there to
the advantage both of the Bank and of the public in-
terest, But the result of confining the number of partners

in those banks to six would be, that the original deposits
would no longer be made through the private bankers,
but go at once into the hands of the Bank of England.
The Noble Duke concluded by observing that the distresses
of 1796 were owing to the loyalty loan, which caused the
private bankers, for the purpose of meeting the demands
upon themselves, to draw from the Bank of England their
deposits there.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE ruse for the purpose
of confining his observations to what bad fallen trona the
Noble Duke on the subject of the legal tender clause. He
thought that it was a principle undoubtedly established that
the security of a paper currency depended upon the notes
current being easily convertible into gold ; and that any
departure from that principle would involve the certainty
of the insecurity of the circulation. If he had for a
moment felt that the measure now introduced would have
the effect of depreciating the currency of the country,
nothing would have prevented him from giving his most
unqualified disapprobation to so dangerous and detestable
a proposition ; but the result of his mature deliberation
had been the conviction, that the measure would not be
attendel by any such results, and he therefore did not
oppose it. He believed he was justified in adding, that
the directors of the Bank of England took the same view
of the probable results of the measure as he himself bad
stated to be his own. He contended, that so long as
the paper currency of the country was convertible into
metallic currency at pleasure, that paper circulation
would be safe, and the present Bill went no farther
than to exempt the Bank from the burdensome neces-

si,y of regulating their supply of gold according to
occasional panics which might arise, and thus to re-
move from them the disability from attending to the
more important matter of the regulation of their supply of
gold by the state of the foreign exchanges. He contended
that the safety of the circulation did not depend on the
amount of gold in the country, but on the relation the
currency bore to the real wealth in the kingdom ; for a
case might occur where there was plenty of gold in the
country, and yet where the circulation would be unsafe.
He did not think that the country bankers would be in-
duced to increase their circulation in the manner appre-
hended, for all that the Bill did was to give to them that
security by which they would be enabled to pay with Bank
of England paper instead of gold, thus securing the per-
petual trensmission of the precious metals from place to
place. "With respect to the clause relating to the limita-
tion within 65 miles round London, he could only assure
the Noble Duke that there had been no intention on the
part of the Government to alter the law. Whether the
law had been generally understood or not was not so much
to the point, as that they had acted according to the law
as it really was. On the opinion of the Law Officers of
the Crown upon the law, as it stood, the Government
had acted. The engagement made by them with the
Bank was, that all the privileges they before had should be
secured to them, and the Government, in proposing the
&rinse in question, had entertained no desire either to give
or to take away from the Bank any one of those privi-
leges, but strictly to act upon the law as it stood.
Lord WYNFORD said that the Government had cer-
tainly taken a most extraordinary course to effect the
object thus stated by the Noble Marquis. If the profes-
sional advisers of the Government had really thought that
the law was as declared in the clause in question, why had
more than the usual declaratory clause been inserted ? He
believed, however, that legal men bad been unanimous in
their opinion that under the existing laws no banks what-
ever could he established within the specified limits, and
there was only one banking house in London, that of
Messrs. Glyn, whose practice as to the number of part-
ners differed from that of the remainder. This discovery
of the supposed meaning of the law was at least quite
new, and it was surprising indeed that commercial men,
usually 00 acute in matters relating to the advancement of
their own affairs, should not before now have discovered
act hioseoewhomry to
real
meaningl
theiri
oof the laws, and have applied their dis•
v
own advantage. There was an authority
tv would name in support of the view he had
stated,—tbat of Adam Smith, who declares his opinion
that the Bank of England had, by the law, an exclusive
privilege of banking of every description within the before
mentioned limits. It was clear also, from the correspon-
dence between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the
Bank Directors, that, in the early period of the progress
of the Bill, it was supposed by all parties that the Bank
of England had the exclusive monopoly of banking of
every description within the prescribed limits, and as
the basis of the arrangement waythat all the privileges
bithertg enjoyed by the Bank ehould now be confirmed

to them, he (Lord Wynford) did not see upon what prin
ciple of justice the other disposition had been subsequently
made. The Acts of Parliament to which he would refer
as supporting the construction of the law up to that
point acted upon were as follows :—By the Sth and 9th
of William 111., chap. 20, it was enacted by section 18,
that " during the continuance of the corporation of the
Governor and Company of the Bank of England no other
bank, or any other corporation, society, fellowship, com-
pany, or constitution, in the nature of a bank, shall he
erected, or established, permitted, suffered, countenanced,
or allowed by Act of Parliament within this kingdom ;"
and he (Lord Wynford) contended that those words re-
ferred to every description of bank. Then, by the 6th of
Anne, c. 22, s. 9, it was enacted, " That it shall not be
lawful for any body politic or corporate whatsoever, united
or to be united, in covenant or partnership, exceeding
the number of six persons in that part of Great Britain
called England, to borrow, owe, or take up, any sum or
sums of money on their bills or notes payable on demand,
or at any lets time than six months from the borrowing
thereof." This Act was passed, because, since the
passing of the former Act, banks of the description there
referred to had been set up, which " frauds" it became
necessary to put an end to. And to prevent the existence
of any doubt on this subject, the 15 Gen. IL, cap. 13,
was passed, giving to the Bank of England the privilege
of exclusive banking, and also enacting that no other bank
could be erected, established, or allowed. Precisely the
very same words were to be found in every Act of Parlia-
ment relative to this question, down to the 39th and
40th of Geo. 111. which was the statute under which the
Bank at the present moment held their charter. Could
it be denied, then, that the establishment of joint-stock
banks of deposit in the metropolis, or within 65 miles of
it, was an infringement upon the acknowledged privileges
of the Bank of England ? He begged to tell the Noble
Lord opposite, that all the evils which he thought likely
to result from the institution of banks of issue in London
would as certainly follow the institution of hanks of deposit.
The Bank of England had been properly described as an
instrument of great public utility, one great advantage at-
tending which was the power it possessed of regulating
the exchanges, by contracting or extending its issues, as
the circumstances of particular seasons might seem to re-
quire. But how could the Bank of England perform this
office with effect, if other banks, possessing an enormous
capital (and he had heard of one to be started with a capi•
tal of 8,000,000/. or 10,000,000/.), and holding a con-
siderable quantity of bills upon the Bank of England, were
allowed to be established ? He was quite sure that these
banks would have the power, when it suited their own
particular interest, to render abortive all the endeavours of
the 13 ink of England properly to regulate the exchanges.
But, independently of these considerations, he contended
that the privileges of the Bank ought not and could not be
taken away by Parliament; because no public body whatever
bad the power to continue to commit acts of injustice, and
the principle now attempted to be applied to the Bank of
England would, if acted upon, establish a precedent by
which similar injustice might be done to every other class
of the community. There was another Act of Parliament
which appeared to him most decisive on the subject, and
which, he was persuaded, must by some accident have
escaped the observation of those whose duty it had been
to draw up the present Bill—he alluded to the 7th Geo.
IV., chap. 46, by which the privileges of the Bank of
England were limited to a boundary of 65 miles round
London. What was the inference he drew from this Act
of Parliament ? That no banks consisting of more than
six partners could, until the passing of this Act, be esta-
blished in any part of England. But if his Majesty's
Ministers thought that the Bank of England had no right
to the enjoyment of exclusive privileges to the extent to
which it now claimed them, why did they not at once
acquiesce in the proposal which the Bank tnade,—uamely,
to introduce a clause declaring the continuance of all
the privileges granted to the Bank, except so far as they
might have beer. altered by the 7th Geo. IV. ? It a -
peered from this that the Bank was canaille! wit •
law as it stood, and he could not conceive what pretence
it was possible to put forward for the rejection of so fair a
proposition on the part of the Bank. Their Lordships
were, however, told that Government had taken the
advice of the Law Officers of the Crown, and they
were called upon to pay due deference to their opi-
nion. Yet, with all respect to those learned persons,
be must be permitted to say that their minds were
liable to be swayed by prejudices; and at all events he
thought that it was not fit that the rights of the sub.
ject should be decided upon by the Law Officers of the
Crown.—(Hear.) Let the courts of justice remain open
to the Bank of England, and, if the opinion of the law
officers of the Crown was correct, the Bank must neces-
sarily fail in any endeavour to prevent the establishment
of banks of deposit in the metropolis consisting of more
than six partners. It was but fair, however, to allow the
' Bank an opportunity of having that question decided ;
but of such opportunity it was deprived by the clause to
which the attention of the House had been called.
Whatever the law might he, the practice for the last 150
years had been for the Bark of England to enjoy exclusive
privileges in London; and there was no justice in binding
any party to a bargain to which he might have consented
from a misunderstanding of the position in which he
stood. He was aware that the Bank had since agreed to
the proposed plan of Government; but for what reason?
Because it could not resist. The Bark protested against
the injustice of the measure ; but if Parliament resolved to
commit an injustice, what could the Bank of England,
or any other body of persons, do ? lie confessed he felt
great apprehensions on the subject; for he was afraid les
this rivalry in banking shotfid lead to the derangement o
the monetary system of , the country. When Parliament

was pleased to extend the privileges of banking all over
the country, except within 65 miles of London, it was re-

quir,d that the names of all the eopar,ners in every bank
should be sent to the Stamp-office.
The Earl of RIPON—That regulation refers to banks
of issue.

Lord WYNFORD was ready to admit that it applied
to banks of issue, but he would ask his Noble and Learned
Friend on the Woolsack how it would be possible to ob-
tain justice against those great companies which were
about to'be established, unless it was made imperative that
the names of the members should be registered ? The
public ought to be allowed an opportunity of knowing
what was the state of their balances, and it was not right
that the Bank of England should be looked upon with
more jealousy than these new banking establishments. He
certainly should be very glad to have the opinion of the
Judges on the point, whether or not, under the existing
law, banks of deposit consisting of more than six partners
could legally be established in the metropolis. He was
told that it would be difficult to assemble the Judges at
this period of the year; but he was ready to say, that if
any one of them could be found to support
.the opinion on
which the clause in the Bill was founded, he would at
once forego his opposition to it. He begged, therefore,
to submit to their Lordships, as an amendment upon the
original question, the following motion :—" That before
the House resolves itself into a Committee upon this Bill,
the opinion of the Judges be obtained on the following
question,—whether, under the existing law, a copartner-
ship, consisting of more than six partners, can carry on
the business of bankers in London, or within 65 miles

thereof, though such bankers do not borrow or take up
up money on their bills or notes payable on demand, or

within any period less than six months."

The LORD CHANCELLOR should trespass but a
very few minutes on the attention of the House, while
be endeavoured to answer the legal argument put forward
by his Noble and Learned Friend. In the first plae,
however, he begged to state that he would be the last

man to express an approval of any measure, if he thought
that its results would be to lead, by however long a
process, to a depreciation of the currency of the kingdom.
It was absolutely and imperatively necessary for the safety
of all interests in this country, mercantile or otherwise

for the stability of trade and agriculture--that there should

be no further tampering with the currency..._( Hear, hear)
—and that no attempt or proceeding should he sanctioned
by Parliament or the Executive Government which could
by any remote possibility cause any change in the value of
the circulating medium.—(Hear, hear.) How it could
be said that the present measure would cause a deprecia-
tion, or create a monopoly in the remote provinces in
favour of the Bank of England, and therefore lead to a
diminution in the value of its papa, he was at a loss to
imagine. With much more reason, in his opinion, the
measure might be described as calculated to make the paper
of the Bank of England bear a premium. But lie believed,
that in reality the plan proposed by Government would
ba found to produce neither the one effect nor the other.
Ilia Noble and Learned Friend had said that the Bank of

England had not been liberally treated by the Govern-
meat, sow, for his part, he must say that he should

, disapprove of any measure not founded on good
war,ls that company ; but he begged to remind
ae-- obl /and Learned Lord, who had talked so largely
of the advantages . conferred on the country by this esta-,
blishment, that there had been a reciprocity of benefit ;
and be was greatly mistaken who thought the advantage
hail been ail on one side.—(Hear, hear.) Frnm 1797,
when a little gentle violence was used against them, and
when they were prohibited by art order in Council from
paying their notes in gold—a proceeding to which they
were so averse that the order in Council was found to he
insufficient for its purpose, and it became absolutely ne.
cessary to pass an Act of Parliament to compel them,
contrary to their most anxious desire, to suspend cash'
payments—(Laughter)—from 1797, he repeated, until
1819, the fact was that they did cease to pay their
notes in gold, and they so greatly benefitted by the vio-
lence done them, that their dislike to it gradually lessened,
until at last they became gradually reconciled to it.---
(Laughter.) It was also a fart, that during that
period bank stock rose to 2801. He thought these
were circumstances which showed that the bargain which
the Bank made with the public for thirty years was not
a very hard one for themselves.—(Hear.) The Nobla
and Learned Lord said that the Bank had been obliged to
yield to the Government; but he (the Lord Chancellor
could see no symptoms of a yielding disposition on their
part. During the latter period of the negotiation they
resisted the Government, and if they had minded to
hold out they might have done so, and they would
have done so,—for let not their Lordships deceive them-
selves on the subject—if they had not thought that
they had made upon the whole an exceedingly good bar-
gain.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed he knew that many per.
sons considered the bargain to lie a good deal better, as
regarded the Bank, than it ought to have been, and that
if there were any party which had not obtained such
good terms as it was entitled to, that party was the
public. His opinion was, however, that neither the
public nor the Bank had any right to complain ; and be
was sure that the Bank Directors would laugh exceedingly
if they were told that any one fancied they had been
overreached in the transaction. He would now address
himself shortly to the legal argument of his Noble and
Learned Friend. By the h'ith Geo. H. it was enacted
that no other bank but the Bank of England should he
established or allowed by Parliament. So far this favoured
the argument of his Noble and Learned Friend, who, in
referring to that Act, had contented himself with quoting
shouldwcw lthoseheearaert
el
yv
banksewnp or,ootrovdbresoaed.
fn
Ityai
issue;wcacompany
Butmutl
ph
eaftfonohrybre
ioninfstnkt succeeding C.
body.
ieeenne,
tdntell„:edngxpe
cdoteploeiattdriosict
nt
agbooteefr:
hpt
e:hro,
noerthip:
,im:b clausertibateeti red
of six, to borrow money on their bills or notes payable on
demand, &c." These last words, he contended, proved
that banks of issue were intended to be prohibited by the
Act ;*and when the Legislature, in William's time, enacted
a general prohibition, the words used were exceedingly
different. In the Act passed in the reign of King Wil-
liam nothing was said aboutborrowing or taking up money
on bills, but the restriction was general, and depended
on the continuance of the Corporation of the Bank of
England. When he looked to the 7th of George the
Fourth, to which the Noble and Learned Lord had
referred, he found in it a great additional argument in
frvour of the construction put on these Acts by the
Law Officers of the Crown, for the first part of the
enactment was couched in those general expressions
employed in the former Acts,-1 circumstance clearly
showing that the Legislature placed the same construc-
tion on them as that given by the Law Officers of the
Crown. The fact that the Law Officers of the Crown
were opposed, on this point, to the Noble and Learned Lord
wan a sufficient answer to his assertion that all lawyers
were unanimous in their opinion nn the subject. The
Noble and Learned Lord was equally correct in his state-
ment that no difference of opinion prevailed among bankers
with respect to the state of the law. He had heard of
more than one instance of a banking establishment being
formed in London, consisting of upwards of six partners ;
and since he had taken his seat on the woo!sack that
evening, he had been told by a Noble Friend that a
highly respectable firm openly carried on the business .of
banking at the west end of the town,'the number of the
partners being eight, until it was reduced by the death of
one of the partners to seven. The Noble and Leaned
Lord concluded by expressing his disapproval of thr
amendment (moved by Lord Wynford), as he conceive
that great inconvenience and waste of time must he
consequences of their Lordships agreeing, at the pr
season of the year, to call the Judges before them.
Lord BEXLEY was not disposed to quarrel w.
--ai provisions of the present Bill, but felt

upon to object to the legal tender clause, end still
to that clause which went to declare that the law did h;
prohibit the establishment of joint stock deposit- bank
within sixty-five miles of Lon,'oM- One fact was decisive,
that neither the Bank of ,gland nor the public, believed
that such was the la.'v—namely, the fact that, on Ge
one hand, no such joint stock banks were ever thought of
during the joint stock mania, while, on the other hand,
forty-eight hours had not elapsed from the moment it was
promulgated, on the authority of the law officers of the
Crown, that such might he legally established, before a
prospectus, involving a capital of ten million, was issued
and acted upon.—(Hear.) Surely the fact that not only
the Attorney and Solicitor-General were at variance with
such a man as Sir Edward Sugden, and the Lord Chan-
cellor, and Lord Wynford, on the interpretation of the
law on this head, ought to make that House, the Court
of last appeal, pause ere it pronounced that to be law,
which a more cautious scrutiny !night prove was ;
at least, they ought not to commit themselves t ll they
hail taken the opinion of the twelve Judges on this im-
portant and much contested point.
The Earl of RIPON begged leave to remind the Noble
Baron, that the very objection creed against the legal
tender clause—namely, that it would prevent a Bank of
England note from having as " omnipotent a value" in
Westminster Hall as on the Stock Exchange, was one of
its recommendations to its framers. Those who con-
tended that it would tend to increase the issues of the
country banker, overlooked the circumstance that the
Bank of England had an interest in checking these over-
issues—the interest of responsibility.—(Hear.) •Then,
with respect to the allegation that the clause declaratory
of the right under the law of the formation of joint stoel-i
deposit hanks within 65 miles of London, which Noble
Lords opposite said was contrary to the 7th Geo. IV., and
a breach of faith and public honour towards the Bank, it
was enough to remind the Haute of the circumstance,
attendant upon the enactment of that statute. Those who
took the trouble to inquire into these circumstances would
find that that Act was pissed entirely with a view to cor-
rect the then enormous ills of overissnes on the part of
country bankers, and had nothing whatever to say to the
Bank deposits.—( Hear.)
The amendment was then negatived. and the House
resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.

The Ist and 2d clauses were agreed to, with merely
verbal amendments.
On the 3d clause being read,
Lord WYNFORD moved, as an amendment, that the
entire clauq; be omitted, and that a clause ensuring the
Bank of England all and the exclusive privileges granted
by the 39th and 40th of George 111., and confirmed by
the 7th George IV., be substituted. The clause as it
stood was a breach of public honour towards the Bank,
and he really knew not why Ministers refused to wait far
the opinion of the 12 Judges, unless they were pretty
confident that that opinion would he adverse to their pro-
ceedings. The Learned Lord on the 'Woolsack hal re-
ferred to the case of a joint stock hank in the West end,
as a proof that the Bank of England—no less than the
partners in that concern—did not believe that the law
prohibited the establishment of such banks. All Le
would then say, that, if such were the case, he was greatly
deceived if the Bank of England did not issue a writ and
bring the matter to a legal issue; and very probably the
Learned Lord would have another opportunity of stating
his opinion when hearing the case in that House as the
highest court of appeal.
The LORD CHANCELLOR could not but wonder at
and admire the praiseworthy zeal which prompted his
Learned Friend to thus interfere in behalf of a hotly
who bad honourably proved their ability to judge what
was and what was not inimical to their interests ; ar4
who, being the parties not only most interested but most
competent to judge of the tendency of the present elauset,
had expressed their satisfaction with its provisi,ns.—
(Hear.) To adopt, therefore, his Learned Friend's pro..
position would be not only a work of supererogation, but
an implied assertion either that the Bank Directors were
not competent judges of their own interests, or that they
unworthily shrunk from their duty thwart's these over
whose interests they presided. He was sure that they
were too enlightened to follow the hint of his Learned
Friend, and issue a writ against the deposit bank to which
he had alluded.

Lord \VYNFORD said that his Learned Friend was in
error in asserting that the fink Directors were satisfi,:,,i
with the provisions ol the present elau.e. l't'r hack
than the 9th instant, in a letter
proelot.rd, itilito,ttpl,astsheeryt
distinctly stated that it literally and subvantially t„
take away those exclusive privileges which they eni,;yyd
under Acts of Parliament; hut that, in order to prev,nt
the commerce of the country from injured dday
in settling Ole question this session, they submitted t,.) its
adoption.—(dear.)
The LORD ciiiiNcECLOR re t 1)

that the sank Directors had agreed to the proud clause
on any grounds but a conviction that it would promote
the interests of the Bank proprietors, was an imputation
on their courage and fidelity. As a joint-atock company
they were the trustees of the funds entrusted to their ma-
nagement ; and as such had no right to enter into any ar-
rangement which would prove at all detrimental to the in-
terests of the Bank proprietors.--( Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTO.I•T and the Earl of WICICLO7
supported the amendment, on the ground that till
the Judges had declared their opinion on a contested point
itself
the law, that House should not arbitrarily assume to
the functions of dictators of the law.
Earl GREY maintained that it was the usage of Par-
liament to declare, in its legislative capacity, what was
the law in cases of disputed interpretation. All that the
prevent el one did was to declare explicitly what other-
wise might he a matter of doubt, thereby conferring an
advantage on all parties interested. To assert that the
declaration would be a breach of public faith towards
the Bank Directors, was to grossly misrepresent the fact.
It was enough to declare that Lord Althorp was the
individual who managed the correspondence with the
Bank, to repudiate the remotest imputations of want
of honour, or breach of faith.—(Hear, hear.) The
character of that Noble Lord was too high, and too
universally appreciated by men of all parties, to admit of
the remotest suspicion of the want of ingeniousness in any
proceeding to which he was a party.—(Cheers.) That
Noble Lord entered into a bargain with the Bank of
England that, on certain conditions, would insure that
Corporation a continuance of the exclusive privileges
which it enjoyed under the existing law. The question
then was, what those exclusive privileges were? and a
doubt having arisen as to the extent of those privileges,
Parliament was called upon to clear it up, and prevent
further misconception.--(Hear.) But be it remembered
that the bargain was not ripe—not to say concluded—
when the Minister judged it expedient to make an expli-
cit declaration of the law on this doubted point ; and
that it was optional with the Bank to either agree to this
declaratory enactment, or declare themselves off as to the
bargain, and let the matter lie over till next session. The
Bank preferred the former choice, and therefore could not
justly complain of a want of fair dealing.—(Hear.) To
call upon them to wait for the opinion of the Twelve
Judges would be to defeat the Bill for the present session,
so that if the Learned Lord's amendment were carried, be
(Earl Grey) should feel himself called upon to move that
the further proceedings of the Committee should be de-
ferred till that day six months.
The Duke of CUMBERLAND begged leave to remind
the Noble Earl that his Learned Friend's amendment was
not for them to await the opinion of the 12 Judges.
Earl GREY—If the Illustrious Duke had taken the
trouble to attend to what I did say, he would know that I
did not say that the Learned Lord's amendment was for
waiting till they had the opinion of the Judges before
them.
The Duke of CUMBERLAND--With great humility,
I appeal to the House whether the Noble Earl did not so
mistake the tendency of my Noble and Learned Friend's
amendment, I am aware through mistake—
Earl GREY—No mistake at all ; I never meant it,
nor said it.
Lord WYNFORD begged leave to ask the Noble Earl
whether he meant to say that when a doubt arose as to
the interpretation of any provision of a Bill, his own inter-
pretation should be received as decisive?
Earl GREY undoubtedly maintained if the interpreta-
tion of Ministers, acting on the part of the public, were
not received, that the bargain founded on the subject matter
of the interpretation should he off, and at an end.
The Committee divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment
Againstit
Majority
The clause was then agreed to, as were all the others,
without observation.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be
received to-morrow.
THE FOREIGN ENLISTMENT BILL.
Lord WESTERN moved the order of the day for the
second reading of ti-,e above named Bill.
The Earl of ROSSLYN expressed a hope that, consi-
dering the advanced period of the Session at which the
Bill had come before the House, the pressure of other
business, and the discussion which the measure would
,ecessarily excite, the Bill would be postponed till next
eseion.

Earl GREY was friendly to the principle of the Bill,
and was prepared to give it his assent, but adverting to
the circumstance that it had been introduced into the other
HOLM after a very short notice, and was sent up to their
Lordships at the close rt the Session, he certainly was
inclined to concur in the rejuest that it should be post-
poned. He hoped, however, that the Bill would be
introduced again next Session, and, perhaps, it Ought to
he taken up by the Government ; but whether that were
the case or not, it should receive his cordial support.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the Noble
Baron (Western), who was acquainted with the history
of the Foreign Enlistment Bill, knew that if there was
one person more than another upon whom he could
securely rely in supporting the proposition for its repeal,
it was himself. When the Bill was introduced he opposed
it in all its stages, and nothing had since occurred to alter
his opinion respecting it in the slightest degree. Never-
theless, he could not help feeling that the objection with
respect to the time at which the measure had come before
Parliament was so strong, that it ought to prevail. If
the Bill should be introduced in the ❑ext session of Parlia-
ment, it should receive his support.
Lord WESTERN under the circumstances, must,
though reluctantly, consent to postpone the measure till
next session.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that he would
oppose the Bill whenever it should be brought forward.
The order for the second reading of the Bill was then
iliic!;arged.
On the motion of Lord AUCKLAND, the House re-
solved itself into Committee on the Factories' Regulation

Bill.
The clauses were agreed to after some verbal amend-
ments bad been made.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to
be received to-morrow.
On the motion of the Earl of WICKLOW, the Com-
mons' ammendments in the Irish Grand Jury Bill, were
ordered to be printed.
The Metropolitan Police Bill and the Buckingham
Palace Bill were severally committed, and ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
The other Bills before the House were forwarded
through their respective stages, and the House adjourned
till 12 o'clock to-morrow.

NO USE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 23.
OFFICIAL RETURNS OF NEWSPAPER STAMPS.
Mr. HARVEY presented a petition from the publishers
of the Sunday Times and Essex Mercury, complaining
of an inaccuracy in the returns of the newspaper stamps.
A return had been ordered of the stamps issued within
the last eighteen months, and the return stated the num-
ber issued to the two papers be had mentioned to amount
to 499,500. Now this was incorrect, the real number
was 643,000. The gentlemen at the stamp office admitted
the error, and accounted for it by saying that a return had
been ordered first fur twelve months and then for eighteen
months, and that in making up that return they had by
mistake, in the instance of these two papers, put the num-
bers for twelve months instead of eighteen months into
the list. 'This error was of great importance to the pro-
prietors of the papers, as the number of stamps returned
served as a guide to the advertising community. It there-
fore required to be directed in this public manner. He
wished merely to add,'is he knew how sen'itive the press
was on this subject, that one of these papers had at one
period been his property, but he had long ago ceased to
have any thing to du with them.
Mr. S. RICE slid, that he should wish to do
some-
thing more than the Hon. Member to render the correc-
tion effectual. He should move that the former return
should he withdrawn, for the purpose of another being
presented, and he should he happy to pursue the
same
course with any other return in which an error bad been
accidentally committed.—(Hear, hear.) It was of the
utmost importance that official returns should be perfectly
accurate.
Mr. EWART said, that the public were much in-
debted to the Right Hon. Gentleman for the manly
manner in which he had met this subject.--(Hear, hear.)
He believed there was an error In another return, re-
lating to the importation of watches.
IRELND.

Mr. BISII, with a view to the pacification of Ireland,
gave notice, that next year he should introduce a ni,tion,
the effect of which was that the King should hold his
Court and Parliament at certain intervals in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
COPYRIGHT ACTS.—IMPRESSMENT.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM presented a petition from a lady
named Caroline Brown, complaining of the evil effects of
-:
' .-',o.r.f the Copyright Acts, in consequence of which
w a
uld ot work of
/ -",.:::, 4 Ilietlf;,eratitled " Passion and Reason, choccasioned her a
" whioher-
A- -; .i:E"7-,tirise hriVer been profitable to her, bad
4....;..._/, )considerable loss. The Hon. Member also presented a
~..,, , , petition against the system of flogging in the navy, and
*"1- ,:. I also atainst the system of impressment.
ck\;.,..'_ '' - Mr.,PRYME, though one of those who received the
,e,, i advantage of access to a library enriched by these presen-