The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-09 00:00:00

COUR T CIRCULAR.

The Duke and Duchess of CUMBERLAND entertained a
select party at dinner on Sunday, at their residence at hew•

-
Prince ALEXANDER and Prince CHARLES of Solms ho-
noured the Earl of WESTMORELAND with their company at
dinner on Sunday evening, at his residence in Grosvenor-
squal e.
Lady CHARLOTTE. ST. MAUR left Park-lane on Friday
to join her Royal Highness the Duchess of KENT'S suite at
Norris Castle, in the Isle of Wight.
Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY and a Deputation from Mary-
lebone had a conference (on tithes) with Viscount AT.-
THORP yesterday, at the Treasury.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, the Right Honourable CHAS.
GRANT, and Mr. LITTLETON, visited Earl GREY, yes-
terday.
Lord CLENIENTS, Mr. TALBOT, Mr. WALKER, and
others of the Irish Members of the House of Commons,
had an interview with Viscount ALTHORP yesterday.
Their MAJESTIES and the Ladies and Officers of their
Household heard a performance of Music on Sunday even-
ing, in the Music-room, at the Palace at Windsor. Two
Anthems, " Let God arise," and "Put me not to rebuke,"
were performed. Mr. and Airs. WELSH sang " Hear my
Prayer," the Princess AUGUSTA'S new song, " Come,
come, again," and a Duo of VACCAI'S, from " Zadig."
Their MAJESTIES remained in the Music-room until half-
past eleven. The Princess AUGUSTA was prevented by a
slight cold from joininv, the party.

AUXHALT,-" GRAND- GALA FOR THE

BENEFIT OF THE POLES."

The gardens were thrown open for the admission of
the public at 8 o'clock yesterday evening, being an hour
earlier than the usual time of admission this season, and in
a very short time after, the walks were thronged with vi-
siters. We have not for some years witnessed so great a
throng, and everything bore the appearance of mirth,
enjoyment, good-humour, and harmony, but we regret to
say these appearances were before the close of the evening
completely dissipated, and one of the most disgraceful
scenes which ever was witnessed at a place of amusement
succeeded. At the close of the first act of the concert,
which took place in the orchestra in the open air as usual,
it was understood that the doors of the Rotunda were to
be thrown open, and that in the second act, in which
Madame Pasta, Madame Grandolfi, Signor Paganini, and
Mademoiselle Taglioni were to perform, they were to
snake their appearance upon the stage of the small theatre
which forms one side of the building. Whether or not
this was a judicious arrangement we shall not stop to in-
quire, but the fact of the doors of the Rotunda being
closed till so late a period of the evening, and the curiosity.
to witness the performance which was to be exhibited
within being so intense, occasioned a crowd at she
entrances so dense, that at no benefit even in the best
days of Siddons and Kean, was anything ever wit-
nessed that can bear even a resemblance to the scene that
ensued. Ladies fainting, shrieks, screams, curses, yell
inns, continued without intermission for upwards of half
an hour, at the termination of which the doors were
thrown open. The doors unfortunately opened outwards,
and the pressure increased tenfold by this unfortunate cir-
cumstance. The rush became truly terrific. The first
ranks that entered came in immediate contact with the
rows of loose forms which were placed for what was
absurdly called the " accommodation" of the public ; over
these forms they were in a moment precipitated, and for.
tunate it was for those who were sprawling prostrate that
the loudness of their screams operated for a moment to
retard the advance of their immediate successors. By a
prodigious effort of these last, the mass which was pressing
on behind was for a moment kept back, and in that mo.
ment the fallen regained their legs and made their escape.
We believe no accident of broken limbs occurred; but the
loss of bracelets, neckchains, ornaments, shoes, and other
articles of dress and decoration, was without number.
The Rotunda was filled in a few minutes, and then
commenced a scene, evidently the work of previous
arrangement, as disgraceful as the most fertile imagination
of blackguardism can conceive. In vain did Madame
Pasta, in vain did Paganini, in vain did Miss Inverarity
attempt to get a hearing. About a dozen, or perhaps
fewer, vagabonds interrupted, by the most unmannerly
and unmanly hooting and shouting, the voices of the
singers, and the instrument of the violinist ; the uproar
lasted for upwards of an hour and a half, and those per-
sons who, either from motives of sympathy with the un-
fortunate but heroic Poles, or from a wish to hear the
scientific and dulcet notes of the performers, had crowded
to the gardens, were comp'etely disappointed, disgusted,
fatigued, and terrified, by the detestable conduct of a levy
blackguards, who, whether they be Englishmen (which
we very much doubt), or whether they be Russians (which
seemed to be the general opinion), are a disgrace to the
outward shape of manhood in which they were disgu;sed;
and to the lowest society which this or any other metro-
polis can supply. Of the fireworks and the other enter-
tainments of the evening we can speak in unqualified
praise ; and while we regret that a scene so atrocious
should have destroyed the harmony of the evening, we
rejoice that the ample receipts at the doors from upwards
of 9,000 persons will go to the coffers which are appro-
priated for the assistance of one of the most self-devoted
and patriotic people of Europe. A vast number of the
nobility were present; but among the scene of confusion
which took place it was impossible to see, heir, or recog-
nise any body or any thing.

THE EXACT COACHMAN.—The late leader
of the northern circuit was employed, some time before he
left it, in an action against the proprietors of the Rock-
ingham coach. On the part of the defendant the coach
man was called. His examination in chief being ended,
he was subjected to the leader's cross-examination. Hav-
ing held up the forefinger of his right hand at the witness,
and warned him to give " a precise answer" to every
question, and not to talk about what he might think the
questions meant, he proceeded thus :—" You drive the
Rockingham coach ?"—" No, Sir, I do not." "
Why,
man, did you not tell my learned friend so this moment ?"
No, Sir, I did not." " Now, Sir, I put it to you
once more ; upon your oath, do you not drive the Rock-
ingham coach ?"--" No, Sir, I drive the horses."

Stand off, stand off there, said a drunken old
gentleman, as his servants were about to lift him from the
floor ; stand off I say. or I'll lodge an information against
you at the Excise office have swallowed more than
a dozen of wine—you must not move me without a permit.
PRODIGIOUS !—A steam coach is about to
be started in Aberdeen, to run, in the first instance, to
Ballater. The proprietors (a few enterprising young gen-
tlemen) hope to be able to start the coach in about ten
days.--Inverness Courier.
_ _ .

We understand it is contemplated to alter the
arrival of the London mai! in our town ; instead of being
here by half-past two in the afternoon, the present time,
it will arrive at one o'ch ck precisely. The Milford mail,
on its road to London, will not he here until twelve o'clock
in the morning, exactly one hour and a half later than it
does at present. This arrangement will take place im-
mediately, anti will be of great benefit from Aloninotith all
the way to Milford. To this extremity of the island, by
the proposed improvement, intelligence will he transmitted
from the metropolis full three hours earlier ; a grand con-
sideration, when we recollect this is the Government chan.
nel for conveying events to our sister isle. When we con-
sider the importance of the most speedy communication
with this portion of the island, we are surprised the altera-
tion has not taken place ere this; hut it is an old saying
and a true one—" better late than never." It is likewise
intended the Newport and Pontypool mail shall leave
Abergavenny at nine o'clock in the morning instead of
eight, and return by a quarter before five in the evening,
one hour and a quarter earlier than at present ; a great
improvement on this line of road.—Hereford Times.
The human remains discovered at Kirton
Holme, a few days since, have excited extraordinary at-
tention in the neighbourhood ; and the following is a more
detailed statement than we were able to obtain in sufficient
time for our last week's publication :—A person was dig-
ging a pit in an orchard near the road side, when, at about
a foot below the surface of the earth, be discovered a
hogshead, which, on rising, he observed had been puddled
round with clay, nearly three inches thick. On opening
it there appeared to be about three or four sacks of lime, in
which there was a distinct impression of the skull of a
human king ; there was also a part of the back-bone
lying in the lime. When the hogshead was opened a
dreadful stench issued from it, which lasted for several
days afterwards, to the great annoyance of the neighbour-
hood. An old man, who resides at Kirton Pointe, re-
members that during the Fen riots, on the enclosure of
Holland Fen, a man named NORRIS LINEIIAM, a village
poet, who Hard to write songs on the subject of the riots,
and was supposed to be well acquainted with the persons
and proceedings of the rioters, was suddenly missed about
that time ; Gni as lie had a house on the spot where these
remains were discovered, there is a greet probability that
the unfortunate poet was murdered for fear of his betray-
ing the rioters, and buried in this spot.—Boston Herald.
CONFLAGRATION ON THE MOUNTAIN.—
A grand and imposing spect tele, which language is ina-
dequate properly to describe, :vas presented to our view
on Thursday evening, la•t, by tee near approach of the
fires, which for some weeks past have been ravaging and
devastating, aiith unparalleled fury, the surrounding alis-
triete of country. In the afternoon of the above•men-
tioned day, the close proximity of the devouring element
was announced by dense volumes of smoke, which were
wafted to us by an easterly current, and completely enveloped
and overshadowed our borough. The thick and murky
vapour assailed car eyes with such an annoyance, and
hung our streets with dark, intense, and aleatat impene-
trable folds. The blood-red diac of the sun descending in
the west, and the empress of the night majestically rising
in the east, with an equelly !litchi aspect, glared ominously
from the firreament through the impending mass. As
the evening advanced, the Sharp Mountain exhibited the
scene to which we have alluded, the broad aclivhy of
which, ascendinc to a lofty eminence, facing in an easterly
direction the lower part of the town, became enveloped in
sheets of flame. Crowds of our :nhabitants, both male
and female, flocked from their houses to witness the sub-
lime and brilliant spectacle. At first, the mt. antain
appeared coveted with myriads of flaming torches; anon
the , onflagration -pread—the flames were seer, kindling,
leaping, and running in various directions—rapidly
ascending the tall forest trees, and encircling them with
fiery wreaths--grappling and enclosing the giants in their
glitte.ing coils—while the dense clouds of smoke overhead,
the crackling of the boughs beneath, and the furious lion-
like roar of the element, added to the grandeur of the
splendid pageant. On Wednesday last, the active exer-
tions of the inhabitants of Port Carbon were called forth
to protect their houses and railroads from impending de-
struction. In spite of all their efforts, about 150 yards of
the Mill Creek railroad was consumed, the whole of
which, however, may be repaired in a very few days.—
Milton's Journal, an American paper.

A PERILOUS SITUATION.—Captain CROW
in his memoirs, relates the following perilous adventure :
One afternoon, when we were ten to twelve hundred
miles from any land, and were sailing at the rate of seven
or eight knots, the alarm was given that the ship was on
fire in the afterhold. I was in the cabin at the time, and,
springing upon deck, the fist persons I saw were two
young men with their flsnnel shirts blazing on their backs;
at the game time I perceived a dense cloud of smoke issuing
from below. and looking round me, I found the people in
the act of cutting away the stern and quarter boats, that
they might abandon the vessel. At this critical juncture
I had the presence of mind to, exclaim, in an animated tone,
Is it possible, my lads, that you can desert me at a mo-
ment when it is your bounden duty, as men, to assist
me ?" and observing them hesitate, I added, " Follow me,
my brave fellows, and we shall soon save the ship." These
few words had the desired effect, for they immediately ral-
lied, and came forward to assist me. To show them a
proper example, I was the first man to venture below, for
I thought of the poor blacks intrusted to my care, and
who could not be saved in the boats, and I was determined,
rather than desert them, to extinguish the fire, or perish
in the attempt. When we got below, we found the fire
blazing with great fury on the starboard side, and as
it was known to the crew that there were forty•five
h,rrels of gunpowder in the magazine, within about
three feet only of the fire, it required every possible
encouragement ou my part to lead them on to extin-
guish the rapidly increasing flames. When I first siw the
extent of the conflagration, and thought of its proximity to
the powder, a thrill of el spair ran through my whole
frame ; but by a strong mental effort I suppressed my dis-
heartening feelings, and only thought of active exertion,
unconnected with the thought of imminent danger. We
paused for a moment, struggling, as it were, to determine
how to proceed. Very fortunately for us our spare sails
were stowed close at hand. These were dragged out, and,
by extraordinary activity, we succeeded in throwing them
over the II imes, which they so far checked, that we gained
time to obtain a good supply of water down the hatchway,
and in the course of ten or fifteen minutes we extinguished
the flames. Had I hesitated only a few minutes on deck,
or had I notipoken encouragingly to the people, no exer-
tion whatever could have saved the ship from being blown
up, and as the catastrophe would most probably have taken
place before the hands could have left the side in the boats,
perhaps not a soul would have survived to tell the tale. I
hope, therefore, I shall he excused in assuming to myself
more credit (if, indeed, credit be due) for the presence of
mind by which I was actuated on this occasion, than for
anything I ever did in the course of my life. The acci-
dent I found was occasioned by the ignorance and careless-
ness of the two young men whose clothes I had seen burn-
ing on their backs; through the want of regular officers,
they had been intrusted to draw off some rum from'a store
cask, and who, not knowing the danger to which they ex-
posed themselves and the ship, had taken down a lighted
candle, a spark from which had ignited the spirits."

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Juzr 8.

The SPEAKER resumed his seat at a quarter past five
o'clock.

A message from the Lords announced that their Lord-
ships had agreed to several private Bit's.
Colonel DAVIES presented a petition from Heathfield,
in Sussex, complaining of the mal-administration of the
poor laws, and praying for their amendment.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, on the 6th February he moved
for certain returns connected with the charities of England
and Ireland ; those :eluting to England had been duly
returned, but those relating to Ireland had not; and he,
therefore, moved that the returns he made immediately.—
Ordered.

Mr. GILLON presented two petitions from the
burghs of Falkirk and Ayr against certain parts of the
Scots Burghs Reform
Sir R. FERGUSON moved that the Warwick Bo-
rough Election Committee have leave to sit on Tuesdays,
Thursdays, and Fridays, notwithstanding the sitting of
the House.

After a few observations from Mr. C. W. Wynne, Mr.
Curteis, Mr. Hume, and Mr. Warburton, the motion was
agreed to.
Lord ALTHORP laid before the House returns of the
salary and emoluments of the Master of the Rolls, and
also of the ♦ice-Chancellor.

Upon the motion of Lord ALTIIORP, the order of the
day was read on the Church Temporalities (Ireland) Bill.
On the motion that the Bill be read a third time,
Mr. O'CONNELL rose, as it was understood, to make
some observations and to move some amendment, but
Mr. STANLEY informed the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman that there had been a distinct understanding that
upon the third reading there should be no discussion, but
that the debate should be on the question that the Bill do
pass.
Mr. STANLEY moved that two riders be added to
the Bill.—Agreed to.
Mr. SHEIL moved that a rider be added to the
Bill, to the effect that the income of the Arch-
bishops of Ireland be fixed at 4,500/, and
that of the Bishops at 3,0001. a year. Although
the income of the Bishops was proposed to be reduced,
yet their patronage would he enormously increased. Ir
was proposed that the Bishop of Armagh should, for
instance, pay over to the Commissioners, from his
income, which was at present 4,9447., the sum of
4,500/., but which would be increased by the amount
of 6,2607., and if it were to be augmented to 20,0007.,
he would still only have to pay 4,500/. to the Com-
missioners, and be at liberty to pocket the balance.
This cutely could not be the intention of Government.
Accotaing to the provisions of this measure, while
there was a deduction from the income of only one Bishop
(Derry) there was a most enormous increase of ecclesiastical
patronage given to the others. Was this proper ? There
was no fixed standard ; the payment should be adapted
to the services performed ; but instead of the standard of
service, they took, what was no criterion at all, the standerd
of locality. It was upon these grounds that he wished
this clause, which he proposed as a rider, should be agreed
to by the House, which would have the effect of reducing
the revenues of the Archbishops of Armagh and Dublin
to the yearly sum of 4,500/., and of the Bishops, to the
sum cf 3,500/. . . .

Mr. HUME seconded the motion. Unless the House
agreed to such a proposition, no efficient church reform
would result. He thought the amendment should he
adopted, even if there were no Muer advantage to be de-
rived frt; r the equaity of income which it would eitablisl.,
than the preven,ion of translations, which were so incon-
v,nient and disadvantageous to the best interests of the
Cburdi.

The clause was then brought up and read a first time.
Mr. STANLEY rose—There were only three ways
of disposing of the patronage of the suppressed
bishoprics, vesting it in a body of Commissioners,
vesting it in the Crown, or vesting it in the Bishop.
Vestin3 it in the Commissioners was certainly the best
way to remove jobbing, for they would be sure to play
into each others Irnds.—(Hear, hear.) As to vest-
ing it in the Crown, he thought the patronage
of the Crown in the Church of Ireland already sufficient,
and the House must give Ministers credit for not
having wished to take it themselves..—(Hear, bear,
bear.) They well knew, however, the charge which
the candour of some Hon. Gentlemen would have raised,
had Ministers thought the Crown the best deposi-
tary of the patronage of the suppressed bishoprics.
—(hear, hear, hear.) With respect to the Bishops,
although they might, like other men, be influenced by
particularly their friends and relations, yet in spite of all
that was said against them, he would maintain,
that if they wished the patronage of the Church
in Ireland to be bestowed according to merit, and not
from political motives—that if they wished obscure
merit to be rewarded, they could not do better
than vest this patronage in the Bishops.—(Hear, hear.)
Does the Honourable Gentleman believe the public
would obtain the benefit of the difference in the in-
coin,s of the Bishops ? What would then be to pay
into the public Treasury ? It would be the tenants and
not the public that would benefit.—(Hear, hear.) If this
rider was carried, it would be contradictory of the prin-
ciple and enactments of the Bill, and he should therefore
oppose it.—(Hear.)
Mr. A. JOHNSTONE moved the previous question.
The Hon. Member alluded to the oath taken by Members
on aesuming their seats, which he contended was diame-
trically opposed to such a motion as that the Hen. and
Learned Member had made. The Hon. and Learned
Member (Mr. O'Connell) had alluded to him in a manner
which, if it had not been for the declaration of the Hon.
end Learned Member against a certain usage which had
long prevailed in society, and if it had not been for those
principles of religion to which he (Mr. Johnstone) meant
ever to adhere, might have led to results very different
from those of calm discussion.—(Hear.) At the same
time that he admitted the propriety of the Hon. and
Learned Member's conduct in refusing to engage in per-
sonal contests, he thought it was his (Mr. O'Connell's)
duty, under such circumstances, to avoid even the appear-
anus of off•nce to any party whatever.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Member took credit
to himself for being perfectly polite. Some of his language
did not precisely justify him in his assumption; but, how-
ever, it was certain that the Hon. Member was a meek and
forgiving Christian, for he protested to heaven that he was
so. And he was right, according to his own account, for
those whom he chose to persecute were the enemies of the
Lord and no Christians. He was prepared to cut the throats
of the unbelievers, and to tell them afterwards that he did
so in mercy to the survivors. The Hon. Member had
read them a homily, and had argued that this mea-
sure was brought forward of malice prepense to the
Church. He bad also asserted that the oath taken by
Roman Catholic Members of Parliament ought to prevent
them from voting upon the subject ; but was there any
inspiration in a certain number of pounds, shillings, and
pence? He had heard, he said, before, that godliness was
great gain, but he had never before heard that great gain
was godliness. He was not aware of the tertium quid,
which would reconcile the difference between the parties.
With respect to the oath taken by Roman Catholic
Members, he had stated the grounds upon which he had
taken that oath. He would not deny that a foreign pre-
late had spiritual jurisdiction over him and twenty-five
Members of that House.

Mr. JOHNSTONE explained.
Mr. SHEIL said a few words in reply.
Sir R. PEEL agreed that the Right Hon. Gentleman
deserved credit for not having advised the Crown to
assume the whole patronage of the Church. At the same

After a few observati ins from Mr. D. W. Harvey, Lord
Althorp, Mr. Abercromby, Sir R. Peel, and Colonel Per-
ceval, tile motion was negatived without a division. --
Mr. SHEIL had another amendment to propose in tl e
preamble of the Bill, for the purpose of restoring the
principle de&e.red ;r1 the 147th clause, which had been
struck cat in the progress of the measure. Without that
clause the Bill wo ild be wholly uselee.. He would not
call upon those Hon. Members who thought that, under
any circumstances, church property ought to be held
sacred, to support him in his proposition ; but lie c •11.
upon those who in former times hid strenuously 'mit-
rained that proposition ; he called upon those Hon. Mem.
hers who, when on the Opposition side of the House, de-
clared it to he their unequivocal opinion, that the property
of the church in Ireland was the property of the State,
and ought to be treated as such ; above all, he called on
those who, in 1824, voted in favour of the motion of the
lion. Member for Middlesex—" To inquire if the revenues
of the Protestant Church in Ireland were n it more than
commensurate to the necessities of that church." Amorg
those who supported that motion, he found the names of
Burdett, Bernal, Brougham, Denman, Lord Ebrington,
Ellice, Robert Gordon, Hobhouse, Kennedy, Lamb, Ma-
berly, Spring Rice, Lord John Russell, and Scarlet.
--(Hear, hear, bear.) But what took place on tl e
motion made by the indefatigable Member for Middlesex
in 1825, to the effect that " The property of the
church in Ireland was the property of the State, and
might be regulated by the Legislature?"--(Hear, heir.)
What was the opinion then delivered by the present
Keeper of the King's conscience, by the present Lord
High Chancellor of England?—(Hear.) The Right Hon.
Member for Tamworth had been declaring that the pro.
position of the Hon. Member for Middlesex contained in
it the seeds of the spoliation of every description of pro-
perty in the country. What did Mr. Brougham say to
this ? " That God forbid that it should be supposed that
the Legislature had the same power over the property of
individuals as they had over the property of the church ;
that, both in theory and practice, the property of the
church had always been considered public property ; that
there was no analogy whatever between the property of the
church and the property of individuals ; that the church
received its property on certain conditions, while the
property of individuals was held unconditionally ; that it
might as well be asserted that the pay of the army and
navy was not subject to legislative interference, as that the
emoluments of the church were to be exempt from it ;
that the property of the church being the property of the
state, the Legislature might deal with it as they chose,
for the benefit of the church and the state "—(Hear,
hear.) This was strong language ; as open and undis-
guised as that which he (Mr. Sheil) now used on the
same subject. Theoretically, there might be no difference
between Mr. H. Brougham and Lord Brougham and
Vaux ; but, practically, it was evident that the difference
was considerable.—(A laugh.) He would pass over to
the close of last session of Parliament, when the
new tithe project was introduced into the House
of Commons—a project the entire failure of which
had been predicted by the Irish Member.. He
would refer to the authority at that period of a
Noble Lord, not a Minister, whom he was sorry not
to see in his place; he meant the Noble Member for Devon.
That Noble Lord had then declared, "th it lie was
most anxious to see a thorough reform in the Church
establishment of Ireland ; that he would most cordially
support a proposition for such reform ; and should Ee be
returned to the next Parliament, pledged himself to bring
it forward if it were not brought forward by some one else s
and that a reform in the Church of Ireland was absolutely
necessary with a view to a better disposition of the enor-
mous revenues at present possessed by that Church."_..
(Hear, bear.) Now he (Mr. Sheil) would venture to ask
if the Bill under their consideration had any tendency to
do that which the Noble Member for Dyit,eei
t.vhofit
aonit.
Cdoac:hvahluaueirbycrelecaiiit,or
iero;el:
was absolutely necessary? It was a Bill which, instead
ok
d
ssrieurfeernuidari
Ireland.—(No,
af oiNecg)opo,,elr.
np;
eot.hu)uiaugmentedttytl
htfotwiun
a(tishi
tetwrpguhraeiovepthehe
artti
ty in
possessed. Bat he would come down to more recent
occurrences. At the commencement of the present session
of Parliament, before the Irish Coercion Bill was brought
in, the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer came down
with his statement, in which he promised to introduce a
measure of extensive relief to Ireland. The Noble Lord
on that occasion made a complete distinction between that
which was the inalienable property of the church, and that
which was applicable to any purpose to which the Legisla-
ture might think proper to &vote it. When theNoblo
Lord had finished, his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member
for Dublin, rather incautiously, burst into expressions of
sttisfaction and delight, little thinking what was to come.
He (Mr. Sheil) would venture to say that the whole of the
speech of the present Right Hon. Secretar% of State fix
the Colonies on that occasion, turned on the applicability
of the perpetuity fund of the church establishment in
Ireland to other than ecclesiastical purposes. Did the Bill
as it now stood recognise that principle?--(Hear, hear.)
What followed? On the 29th of March the Coercive
Bill was read a third time and passed. His Majesty's
Miristers, before they withdrew the 147th clause in the
Irish Church Temporalities Bill, took care to carry the
bleb Coercion Bill through the House. They carried the
Coercion Bill by holding up to the English Members that
it was to be accompanied by a measure of great relief to
Ireland ; and having thus carried the Coercion Bill, they,
on the 21st of June, despite all their promises and decla-
rations, to the dismay of their supporters and to the
astonishment ef the reset of the House, withdrew the idea
tical clause which involved the whole spirit of the measure.
--(Hear, hear.) His object was simply to restore to the
Bill the principle of the clause (147th). He should
ptoba'uly be met with the old answer—this was not the
proper time. At the close of the last session, they were
told to s- ait for a reformed Parliament, when substantial
ameliorations should cot tainly be entered upon rigorously,
and now he supposed the people were to be told to wait
again. Until when ? Till there was unanimity in the
Cabinet, or till a certain gentleman, who held a distin-
guished situation, had changed his opinions on that point?
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman moved that it be in-
serted in the preamble of the Bill, " that the revenues of
the Church of Ireland are properly under the control of
the Legislature, and applicable to such purposes as will
he most beneficial to the interests of religion and to the
community at large, due regard being had to all persons
having a present interest in them."

Mr: HUME seconded the motion. All must regret
with him that what, when not in power, Ministers had
the disposition to do, they now, when in power, bad not
the will to attempt.—(Hear, hear.) Everything which
bad occurred since he originally advanced this principle
confirmed his opinion of its propriety, though be well
recollected that, on the occasion he alluded to, he bad been
attacked by the present Lord Chancellor of Ireland, the
Right Hon. Secretary La the Colonies, and an Hon.
Baronet, not then in his place, as a highway robber and
spoliator.—(Loud laughter, and cries of " Aye, aye.")
Sure be was that all attempts at patching would be of no
avail—all efforts against sound principles and true policy
would fail—at least, he hoped they would. He really
could not believe that his Majesty's Ministers had changed
their opinions—opinions so honestly and fairly given. As
to anything like truckling to influence, they ought to
spurn it; they ought never to think of yielding to those,
who, when the occasion came, they might be sure would
treat them as they deserve.—(Hear, and laughter.) He
had not intended to say anything more on this subject, but
to have allowed the Bill to pass, and then to have entered
his protest against it ; more especially as by the conduct
of Ministers, that bad been made a perpetuity which was
previously only a life rent. The Noble Lord (Althorp)
was chargeable with this—with having given to the
alrerdy overgrown revenue of the Church this additional
value. He said these things with regret; but it was his
duty to speak out, in the hope of inducing the Noble Lord
to turn back and act a manly part, instead of taking lessons
from those who, he would grant, were consistent in their
conduct (and that really was something), but who were
the last persons to give sound or honest advice to the Go-
vernment. If the Whigs were to be in power, governed
by the Tories—(Hear, and laughter)—he would rather
have the Tories themselves; for he oid not like delegated
power.—(A laugh.) He should second the motion with
great pleasure, although it certainly did not appear to him
to be the best time for introducing it.

Lord ALTHORP could not deny that it was beedrcetoutorcmtttaiiininelgya
exceedingly fashionable to quote the previous speeches of
the present
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Nis Hon. Colleagues to the abstract

con•idei alien, it being well known that the Government
did differ 0,;,2 Irorn anotLer on the point, and so be believed
he hail expressly stated. The Hun. Member said, that when
he stated the intent of that clause (the 1,47 th), there was
very general cheering in thellonle.- Ile assuredly &1 not
recollect that it was so, though the whole pl in
together had been received in a manner which had certainty
been highly gratifying to him. It had been stated by the
Hon. and Learned Member for Tipperary, that if that House
abandoned any measure horn fear of a collision with qnother

branch, there could be nothing more fatal in its conse-
qte-nces to the country. He agreed that when there was any
measure of real importance, they should not secede from
it, and he would be as ready as any man to maintain his
position—(Flear,hear)—but he did say, that unless it was
for the attainment of a measure of absolute importance,
Government would act a very unnecessary part in bringing
the two Houses of Parliament into collision.—(Loud
cheers.) He denied that the effect of the BM would be
to increase rather than diminish the church property of
Ireland ; and if it only went so far as to abolish the vestry
cess, it would, he maintained, be productice of immense
good. On the question of the alienability of church pro-
perty, they had given no opinion either one way or another.
Colonel DAVIES had no hesitation in asserting that
the conduct of Ministers had lately been anything but
consistent with what they professed some weeks ago. If
there was any thing that was valuable in the Bill, it was
that very part of it which had been expunged.
Mr. WARD thought that the House ought to adopt
the amendment of the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen, if
. . . _

they wished that Ireland should be a means of strength to
this country. There was a good deal of reason in what
had been said by Dean Swift about England and Ireland.
Dean Swift observed, that in all matters relating to the
Government of Ireland, England expected to be addressed
in the terms used by the enamoured boy to his mistress—
" God forbid that even my life should be weighed against
the gratification of your least caprice." Surely though
such might have been the expectations of England in
former periods, tbey could not be entertained now, and a
reformed Parliament would be the least likely to encourage
them. The English church in Ireland still, however, re-
quired to be supported in splendour, yet not one single
spiritual advantage was derived from that splendour. He
knew that it was often said that this church was the na-
tional church. He could not think of any national
church that was not the church of the nation. He knew
of no other test of a national church than that of its being
the church of the majority of the nation ; and wherever

au re was such a singular perversion as a church on one
side, and a people on the other, the Parliament had an
undoubted right to re-model the Establishment.—(Hear. )
He should regret to see this session pass over, and leJve
the Irish church almost intact, as a memorial of the humi-
lity of the first reformed House of Commons.

Mr. PETER would not vote fur the amendment. He
agreed with the man who said you had better concede a
little to a friend than give up everything to an enemy.
Though the Bill was not all he could wish, he should vote
in favour of it even without this clause.
Sir R. INGLIS observed that the assertion had been
made for the thousandth-and-first time, that Catholics
supported the church in Ireland. He must deny it. It
was property that supported that church, and not piteous,
and the property was chiefly in the hands of Protestants.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the principle involved in the
amendment was the only really valuable principle in the
Bill. It was true the church cess was a relief to the
peorle ; but if the House struck out the principle for
which he was now contending, they would strike out the
best part of the Bill.

A; HoN. MEMBER. believed the principle of the Bil
was to reform the church—not to confittcate its property.
A division took place—
For the Amendment
Against it 177
Majority —9l
Several verbal amendments having been made withou
nbservation,

Mr. O'CONNELL rose to move an amendment to the
clause which relates to the income, Fcc., of the Bishop of
Derry. He reminded the House that when this Btil
was first introduced, all the present incumbents in Ireland
were taxed by it. That was objected to as most unreason-
able, and by universal consent the provision was alte. ed so
that no income derived from the Church should be taxed
until after the decease of the person who received it. One
exception, however, and only one, had been made to this
rule, and that exception was the present Bishop of Derry.
He (Mr.O'Connell) was desirous that this exception should
he erased, and if asked why he made this proposition, his
answer would be that he owed a debt of gratitude to the
Bishop of Derry, since, perhaps, without his aid, he (Mr.
O'Connell) should not have had a seat in the House. He
felt a personal regret at the exception, and he saw no suffi-
cient reason for it.
Mr. O'DWYER seconded the amendment.

Mr. STANLEY opposed it. The Bishop of Derry
held his see under the express engagement, that if Parlia-
ment thought fit to deal with the subject, his vested inte-
rests should not stand in the way of a general arrange-
ment, and that was the only reason why he was excepzed
in the Bill. The Hon. "and Learned Gentleman was,
however, mistaken, when he said that the Bishop of Derry
was the only exception, and even hi: income had not been
reduced to the full extent, they had deprived him of only
4,0001. a year out of 12,0001. a year, when they might
have taken 6,0001. a year. The Deaneries of Downe and
Raphoe were held upon similar terms; and it was fair to
mention, with regard to Dr. Plunkett, the Dean of Downe,
that although his appointment had not been made in con-
templation of the present Bil', he had volunteered the re-
duction of his income, and thus subjected himself to the
arrangenient.—( Cheers. )

Sir. R. PEEL supported the view just taken by the
Right Hon. Gentleman. He felt nothing but respect for
theßishop of Derry,who had been appointed to his first See
while he (Sir R. Peel) was Secretary of State ; hut he
never could consent to the principle of giving the Bishop
of Derry 4,0001. a year because he voted in favour a the
Roman Catholics.—(Hear, bear.) Besides, if it were to
be given to the Bishop for the consistency of his advocacy,
be himself would not and could not accept it, for he had
signed a petition expressing decided hostility to the claims
of the Roman Catholics.
Mr. O'CONNELL remarked that there was neither
candour nor the affectation of it in what had just fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet. When the Bishop of
Derry, then Dean of St. Patrick's, found that his signature
bad been affixed to a petition against the Catholic claims,
he published a letter in the newspapers, stating that the
petition was laid before him in a darkened room when he
was just recovering from a typhus fever, and that he bad
signed it on the assurance that it had been drawn by Dr.
Magee, and that it merely frayed the protection of the
rights of the Church.
Sir R. PEEL said tbat the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man should have bad some' ground for knowing that he
was acquainted with this fact befote he charged him with
want of candour.

Mr. O'CONNELL replied that the facts he had stated
had been published in the newspapers.
Sir R. PEEL did not think he was hound to know or
recollect all that the newspapers contained. The petition
had been put in his band in the course of the evening,
and if he bad recollected what the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had mentioned, he would not have omitted to
state it.—(Hesr.)
After a few words from Mr.O'CoNNELL, Sir R. INcus,
and Mr. FINN, the amendment was negatived without a
division, and some merely verbal amendments were
agreed to.
On the question that the Bill do pass,

. ,
Mr. LEFROY rose amidst cries of " Oh, oh," and eo
touch noise prevailed in the House, that it was with diffi-
culty even a few detached sentences cou'd be caught of
what fell from him. He objected to any interference with
the rights of the present proprietors of church property, as a
proceeding contrary to the most obvious principles of justice.
An HoN. MEMBER, said that no case had been made out
for so sweeping a measure as the removal of ten Bishops,
and he altogether objected to the measure as against the first
principles of equitable legislation.
Mr. T. GLADSTONE observed, that it had long been
made a matter of accusation against the Church of Ire-
land that it bad not done all in its power to promote the
cause of Protestantism, and that was accountA for on
the ground of its inordinate wealth. Was it the only
Church that had slumbered?—(Cheers.) Apostolic
poverty was not necessarily connected with Apostolic effi-
ciency. True it was, that the Vaudois preserved in their
valleys the faith of their forefathers; but was it quite
certain that they could have succeeded in that object, had
they not been assisted by the Church of England? The
question now before them really was not a question of
weahb or poverty, but whether the Church in Ireland
might not be so far modified as more efficiently to advance
the purposes of its original institution, by extending in
every legitimate way the principles of Protestantism ?
Looking to the future expansion of the Church of Inland,
he was grieved to see the number of Bishops reduced,
because they were a means to extend it, and when once
reduced, it would be difficult to replace them. With re-
spect to,
jestrpaessa, he was free to avow that he looked
upon*, opting. to his own opinion, but according
to thstl,Ar iithOis Axi) Aft the pernianent property of the
s, e • tiS choral, butt ?th taf an impost which ought to he
raised If the chuck, opiht it necessary to levy it; and
so ling as the-abaci eat recognised, it should be allowed
the: means of providininfor its own expenses. As be
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