The Sun.
London, England, 1802-03-27 00:00:00

UPPLY:

- - -
Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the Day for
going into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. Cotexy moved, that the several Estimates
respecting the Miscellaneous Services of Ireland,
ahould be referred to the said Committee.
Mr. BAKER said, he did not mean to oppose
the Motion, but there were many of the Services
t.vhieli the Committee was now to be calle.cketpon to
vote, which, in his opinion, required some ex-
planation. They might, for what he knew, be
necessary, but he wished the Committee to have
some further information upon them before they
were voted. The 'Parliament had voted similar
sums of money for institutions in this country, the
ift'oundling Hospital, for instance ; but they had al-
ways required that a full account of the state of
that charity should be laid before them ; and he
thought, that in the present case Parliament ought
to have sllnilar information. Objeaions had been
made to the charge for paving and lighting the City
of Dublin ; he did not mean to say, it would be
wrong to vote ir, but he thought the subjeo ought
to he fully explained.
Mr. CORRY said, that nothing gave him more
satislattliOn than to hear the sentiments of every
Gentleman upon these subjeas, because his objet
was to give all the information in his power, and to
give every possible degree of notoriety to these
Grants, in order that they might be fully and fairly
investigated. Whatever could be suggested by any
Hon. Gentleman, that would tend to put the House
in possession of the most accurate, extensive, and
Minute information upon these subjeas, would he
most agreeable to him and if any mode could be
'pointed out for that purpose, he would most readily
accede to it. He was not, however, aware of any
other mode than That which had at present been
adopted. But if the House were of opinion,
that any further time would be necessary to examine
this subject, that a longer notice should be given
to enable Gentlemen more fully to investigate it, or
that any other Papers were necessary, he would
most willingly accede to any proposition for that
purpose. He only wished to conform to the general
sense of the House. He had lad occasion, on a former
day, to stare, in reply to an Hon. Baronet (Sir W.
ELFORD), that it would be attended with great in_
cons etlience, if the Vote for these Services was post-
poned to a distant day. But, when such a sugges-
tion as this had been thrown out, and front such a
(payer, he had rather run the risk of a little incon-
venience, if he could completely satisfy the House.
The House had fixed the 3d of April as the last day
for receiving petitions upon these subjeas, from
Ireland; but if Gentlemen wished that he should
postpone the Motions, which he was now prepared
to make, till after that day, he would conform him..
self to the pleasure of the House, and should moVe,
that the House should resolve itself into the Com-
mittee of Sualy on the 3d of April, or rather on
the Monday following, because he should have some
fetcher Accounts /0 present on the 3d. He wished
to understand, whether it was the pleasure of the
House, that he should postpone his Motion ; if it
as, he would readily do it ; if not, he was ready
now to proceed to move the different Resolutions,
which he held in his hand.

BAKER said, he was obliged to the Right
I-lon. Gent Yill:L1 for the candour which he had dis-
played upon this occasion, but he did not know
that his object would be answered by merely post-
poning this discussion. The third of April was
:er7ainly the day limited for presenting privag
e'er tiaras respdting these subjeCts, but the Right
Gentleman had not said any thing about pre-
senting any explanatory Papers, which it. was his
objea to obtain.
Mr.CORRY said, that in answer to the question
which the firm. Gentleman had asked, viz. whether
he meant to present any explanatory Papers, he could
only say, that he wiri not aware that any other Papers
were necessary, as those which were alreacly on the
'fable, appeared to him to he sufficient. If, how-
ever, :ill Gentleman' thought it was necessary to have
further intout-ration, and would make a Motion to
that effect, he was sure that any Order of the
.f
louse tOr
.that purpose, would be obeyed with the
greatest expedition in Ireland. lie had offered, if it
was thought proper, to postpone his Motion for
some days, but as the Hon. Gentleman had said that
that would not answer the objet he had in view, he
would now with the permission of the Commmit-
te proceed to move the Resolutions.
Mr. ROBSON desired to know whether the
Right Hon.. Gentleman meant to persist in moving
the Resolution respeCting the paving, &c. of the
City of Dublin ? He wished much that some sche-
dule of the Papers which had been presented could
be laid upon the Table.
The SPEAKER said, that all the docurt.ents
which were laid upon the "fable appeared in the
-Votes of the House.

The''CH4NCELLOR of t7ie EXCHEQUER
id, the House could not now take into consider..
ation the question of paying and lighting the City

of Dublin, beeause the necessary rstimates had
not been presented. His Right Honourable Friend
had candidly expressed his willingness to postpone
these Resolutions, if the Committee thought proper ;
but its !he Hon. GentleAaan had stated, that it would
not answer . his purpse, his Right Hon. Friend
would probably now think it right to proceed with
his Resolutions.

•
The House then resolved itself into a Committee
of Supply.
M. CO R,RY said, it would be unnecessary for hint
to detain the Committee, by entering into ;Inv/
statement upon -the different Resolutions he had to
propose, unless he was called upon so to do, in
which case he should be ready 'to give the fullest
explanation, He .coucluded with moving the first
Resolution.

Mr. BAKER said, he d not mean to criPW.t to
any of the Resolutions in i articular, but to the ge-
neral proceeding. He conceived that the United
Parliament would be justified in requiring more in-
formation upon these subjeds, than they now had
before them; that explanation not having been
given, it appeared to ! that they were now
called upon blindly to v,.; these 4e:solutions, wiLh-
out sufficient informatio,.

The CHA,.I CELLO... of thf EXCHFQUER
said, that every thing which clime from his Han.
Friend, who had just sat down, came with great
weight, because he was never aFtuated by any other
motive than a strong sense of public duty ; but be
begged the Committee to cor,rider in what a situa-
don Parliament would be placed; if the suggestion
of the Hon. Gentleman eras acted upon. They
were assembled as the Parliament of the United
Kingdom, and all the Merribers of it were upon an
equal footing : and if Members of this part of the
United Kingdom had a right to call for a full in-
quiry into all these Estimates, the Members for
Ireland had an ,equal lien to call for inquiries into
the propriety of continkiing similar Institutions in
this Country. They might call for inquiries into
the propriety of continuing the Police Bill, the
Thames Police Rill, of continuing the encourage-
ment given the lioard of Agriculture, the Vete-
rinary Insii,ution, and a number of others of a simi-
lar nature; existing for the exclusive advantage of
Great Britain. The Representatives of Ireland would
have a right to nuke inquiries into the nature of
these Institutions, as well as the Representatives of
Great Britain to make inquiries, into the nature of
the Institutions which it was now proposed to
provide for. The adoption, therefore, of this
principle, woe,id lead the House into an incon-
venience whicli would soon make them sorry for
having given into it. If his Right Hon. Friend
did not give a satisfa&ory explanation, the Com-
mittee might postpone these Resolutions, or nega-
tive them altogether ; but if the Hon. Gentleman's
principle was adopted, it would lead to'the greatest
inconvenience.

Mr. CORRY said, he should be extremely sorry
if the Committee should suppose, that he had not
laid all the information which it was in his power
upon the Table. He had brought forward every
document that he thought could give information,
and had laid upon the Table papers similar to -those
which were presented for similar services in Great
Britain. .He was anxious to state thus much, be-
cause he was jealous of the charafter of Government,
and also of his own character. Ht: then desired
that the Estimate; reseeding the first Resolution
(the Pratique of the Port of Dublin) might be
read ; (the Clerk having read the Estimate), he
said, he had desired this Estimate to be read, in
order to slices that every possible degree of com-
munication had been given. With regard to the
other Resolutions, the Petitions stated a great deal,
and the Estimates more. If any Gentleman, as
he had before said, could point out any further, in-
formation, he was ready to accede to it.
, Mr. ROBSON said, the Estimate which had
been read was sufficiently full, bur he did not think
the others were. He did not think the United Par.,
liatnent was bound by the Union to provide for
these services. He wished to have the Opinion of
the Law Officers of the Crown upon the subjed.
Sir W. ELFORD, in explanation of what had
passed upon a former occasion,,said, he had merely
objected to the form of the proceeding.
Lord DE BLAQUIERE said, that all these In..
stitutions had undergone very full and minute in-
quiries in the Parliament of Ireland ; he had him-
self been upon many Committees appointed for the
purpose of investigating these subjeds.
Mr. BAKER said, he conceived that the United
Parliament was bound by the Union to grant the
Money for these services, but still he thought more
ample information might be given. •
Mr. CORRY said, that he could not accept
the concession of the Hon. Gentleman, because it
was a concession greater than the 7th Article of
the Union required, and he would state his reasons
shortly to the Committee for saying so : but before
he did it, he begged the Clerk would read that
Article of•the Union. [The Article was accord-
ingly read.] The objet of that Article was, to
secure to Ireland a specific sum, that is to say, that
not a smaller sum should be granted. The Corn-
mittee would observe that it was. a stipulation on
the part of Ireland, by which, when she entered
into the Union with Great Britain, she wished to
secure to herself a sum for the purposes mentioned
in that article ; but there was no stipulation for
any other sum, or for any other purposes than
those mentioned in the Artie', in question. He
therefore felt himself bound in candour to warn the
lion. Gentleman not to make a concession greater
than he was warranted by the Terms of the
Union, because the lion. Gentleman seemed to
think that the United Parliament was bound to
grant the same sums for the same purposes that had
been usually granted by the Parliament of Ireland :
but that was not the case, because the United Par-
liament was not bound to make any provision for
any purposes except those specified in the Article.
Many of the motions he should have the honour of
submitting to the Committee, were for Services
not coming within. the meaning of that Article :
such, for instance, as the charge for paving and
lighting the City of Dublin, the charge for print-
ing proclamations, for apprehending felons, &..e.
None of these came within the meaning of that
article, and therefore the Hon. Gentleman had con.
ceded too much, when he opposed that the United

Parlitiment were hound by the terms or the Tir,lon
to yore them ; trit, on the other hand, if they
were not bound to vote them, he hoped the Com,
tittee would agree with him in thinking, that
P4iliament was not limited as to the sums which
t.,ey might grant, not even for those purposes
specified in the Article. At the time of the Union,
when Ireland was to send over zoo Membeis, to
mix with a Parliament consisting of 558, she had
thought it necessary to stipulate that not less than the
specific sum should be granted for this purpose;
out the Committee might, if they thought the case
required, it, go farther, and grant a larger sum.—
With regard to all the other purposes not men-
tioned in that Article of the Union, there was no
restrietion whatever imposed upon the United Par-
liament. The Committee was not bound to grant
the sums' applied for, if they did not think it
necessary : on the other hand, they were not re-
striEted from doing it, if it should seem proper
to them. The ()bled of Ireland had been to secure
an average sum, but it was left to'the discretion
of Parliament how to apportion it among the differ-
ent Services for which it was granted. In fart the
sums now applied for, for some of these charitable
Irstitutions, were larger than bad been usually
granted. The Foundling Hospital, for instance,
in which 3500 children were maintained : with re-
gard to that Institution, the Estimate for this
year was larger than usual, he believed the excess
was near zocol. but this increase of expenditure
arose from the great increase in the price of pro-
visions. He had no other able& than to state this
subjeet in the fullest manner to the Committee, and
therefore he had been particularly anxious to make
himself understood. If he had failed in that ()bled,
he was ready to give any further information that
any Gentleman might require. With regard to
what an Hon. Member had said respeaing the pro-
priety of the Law Officers of the Crown giving
their opinions upon the meaning of that Article,
it appeared to- him wholly unnecessary, because
the meaning of it was plain and obvious to the un-
derstanding of every man.
Mr. ROBSON said, if it was stipulated by the
Union that these sums were to be granted, it was
not necessary for Petitions to be presented.
Mr. CORRY said, they were necessary, because
it was in the power of Parliament to dispose of
the .general sum in different proportions, as might
seem to them proper, and therefore Petitions were,
necessary to paint out the proper obleas.
The follo,-'ng Resolutions were then agreed to ;
the Estimat., were for Nine Months, viz. to the
sch Jan. .tBo3.

Pratiquc Dublin Port - - - £. 726 o 2
Apprehending prbiic Offenders in Ireland 1730 '5 4i
For defraying charge of c; iminal pax:eedirtgs 3734 '4 xi
For Proclamations and Advertigementi•A the
Dublin Gazette, sec. - -- , 46.5 i 6}
Printing and Stationary for Public 0 ificas 13621 t 24
Incidental expences of the Treasury - 13g4 12 4
For building Courts of Law, •&.c. - 4153 17 o
For working the Wicklow gold mine - )S-16 3 I
Cloathing the Battle-axe Guards - - 683 i 6

The Dublin Society, for promoting husbandry
and other useful arts - - - 35e.:.7 13 Itl
Further Grant to the Dublin So:iety - 3r 15 7 9
To the Farming Society of Dublin 1384 12 4
Protestant Charter Schools - - 13505 7 9
Foundling Hospital - - -1269 a 6 31
Hibernian Marine :'School for Sailors' Children t_i32 tS 9.6
Hibernian Sehciol for "Soldiers' Children • - 324 o .41
Lock. Hospital . - - - - 4164 18 61

For the Catholic Seminary - - 55.38 9 47
For the House of Industry in Dublin - 13107 3 c
For the Society for discountenancing Vice,
and promoting the knowledge and practice of
the Christian Religion - - - ,C.5;3 16 116
For the Vemale Orphan House near Dublin, 346 3 1
For sitting up and supporting a Penitentiary
House for young Criminals - - - 1869 4 71

The House being resumed, the Report was ordered
to be received on Monday, and the Committee to sit
again on that day.
The Committee .of Ways and Means was deferred
till Monday.
Adjourned at half past five till Monday.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QIJ:S DICEItE F ALSUM AUDILAT ?

LC) NDO N, MAR C 11 27, iSo2,

Tilts morning French Papers were received in
Town, of the date of the 23d inst. which contain
some further accounts from St. Domingo, to befound
in our subsequent Columns.
A Dutch Mail arrived this morning, by which we
have some Extracts from the Hamburgh Papers of
the t9th and loth inst.
A Messenger reached Town this morning, with
Dispatches from Marquis CoaNwALL is at Amiens.

The KING left Town yesterday morning for
Windsor.

The QUEEN and PR INCESSES followed at noon
for the same place.
It is reported the DUKE of KENT is going out
Governor to Gibraltar.

Her Royal Highness the PRINCESS of WALES
was at the Opera on Thursday night.

Mr DUNDAS, we understand, arrived in Town on
Thursday night from Scotland.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, we are happy to state,
is recovering from his late indisposition.
We are sorry to hear that the.Dutchess Dowager
of SOMERSET is much indisposed with a cold.
This morning arrived a Wit from Lisbon,
brought to Falmouth by the King Grarge Packet,
in eight days.
The Nutzve/t, arrived in the Downs from the East
Indies, sailed from St. Helena the 3lst of January,
in company with the Sir John Barbie Warren,
Sir Edward ilamiltan, and Duke of Kent, Whaler,
and parted six or seven degrees to the South-
ward of the Line. The Scarborough and William
liitt sailed from St. Helena the same day. The
Experiment and Caledonia, from Bengal, were left
at the Cape of Good Hope on the 19th of January.
His Majesty's Ship Suffolk, and Arran, from Bengal,
were to bail frorti St, tie4tna the 4th of FehroAry.

IPid VAL NEW

OVER, ,MARcx

HAT.F PAST SIX, P. M.

A fr
Packet is in sight From Boulogia "cell'
ther being quite calm, a boat rowed off to her, ad
is now within three miles of the bhore on het
rr,turn, baring, it is imagined, the Messenge:r and
Dispatches on board.