The Sun.
London, England, 1833-02-07 00:00:00

Secretary front the rest of the Government. I support
the Government, c 'use it has pursued a policy of liberal
concession ; I oppose the Right Hun. the Irish Secretary,
because he has pursued a policy of arbitrary power. 1
tell his Majesty's Ministers that that Right Hon. Member
has lost them (perhaps by this address, as the last
stroke) the esteem of Ireland. He may do more—he
may endanger their strength in this House. Can it be
supposed that the independent Members—the 300 new
representatives allied to no old party—attached to the
superstition of no Whig names—can night after night
hear the facts delivered by the Members for Ireland—facts
of grievance, answered by demands for soldiery, with..
out dropping off in some defections from the Minis-
terial majority. If they are not convinced by a recurrence
of such debates, the debates will be published, and their
constituents will. lam sure that if the Right Hon. Se-
cretary continues in his present office, England will soon
participate in the discontents of Ireland. If we are to be
a united empire, we will not have separate interests—we
will not have Reform for England, and constabulary force
for Ireland. Did we not all feel how generously the Irish
Members helped us in our Reform ? Shall we repay
them in our first Reformed Parliament by a donation of
musketry, or a repeal of the trial by Jury? Sir, I, for
one, will not consent to this requital. I will not vote un-
qualified approbation to this address—nor can I support
the vote of unqualified disapprobation of the Hon. Member
for Ireland. -I
trust there is a middle course left, and that
my Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Lambeth, will,
as I believe lie intends, move an amendment suited to the
difficulties of the case—an amendment which shall imply
at least, that if redress is not to precede, it is yet to ac-
company, this grant of extraordinary power. I shall thus
by enabled to give my vote—not in the spirit of hostility
to the English Government, but in the spirit of suspicion
Against the Irish Government—a pledge of my sympathy
with oppression wherever it exists, and a proof of my at-
tachment to the Unio❑ itself—a Union only to be cement-
ed by convincing Ireland that we will adopt towards her
the same legislative principles we have just carried into
effect for ourselves.

Mr. STANLEY wished to take the first opportunity of
explaining openly what had been so erroneously and so
strangely attributed to him. He never did, he never
could have said, for he never supposed, that the Reform
Bill was to be looked upon as the be-all and the end-all of
Reform in this country.—(Cheers.) Upon the only oc-
casion that he ever touched on the subject, by perversion
the most ingenious he hnd been made to say that which
he had never even thought—for, so far from asserting its
finality as to Reform; he conceived the Reform Bill as hut
the machinery by which other necessary Reforms—(Hear,
hear)—were to he carried into effect. He stated that he
looked upon its passing, and he believed that Ministers
concurred in the view, as the completion of that ma-
chinery by which they were to work other improvements
required by the nation.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman here suddenly paused, appearing greatly agi•
tated. We believe him to have heard some observation by
Mr. O'Connell, which was intended for a personal friend
near to that Learned Gentleman. There were loud cries of
" Order," during which Mr. Stanley attempted to re-
sume ; but was prevented, as much apparently by his
own excited feelings, as by the continued cheers of the
House. The Right Hon. Gentleman at length proceeded
—He thanked the House for giving him to understand,
that it was unnecessary to notice the conduct of the Hem
Member.— (Cheers.) What he had been represented to
say—he again asserted—was unfounded. He had de-
clared, on the occasion alluded to, that he looked upon the
constitution of that House as complete and final for all
those purposes by which an honest Govern,. en', supported
try the voice of the people—(Cheers)—could carry into
effect such reforms as the people might deem advisable.—
(Cheers. ) _ _

Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the House would permit
him to set himself right with them. This he claimed as a
measure of justice.—(Hear, hear.) He declared most dis•
tinctly, he had not the least idea of interrupting the Right
Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) He was replying to a
questio❑ put to him by a friend, which he had not the
remotest idea could be overheard, and the answer to which,
he solemnly declared, was never meant to reach the Right
lion. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.)
A GENTLEMAN below the Treasury Bench, who,
when the Order of the Day was being real, made several
fruitless attempts to address the House, now resumed his
efforts. A slight confusion was created, which was at last
.uppressed by the SPEAKER desiring " he would, please
to sit down"—on which

Mr. TENNYSON paid that the explanation which had
been just given by the Right Honourable Gentleman
must give great satisfaction to the House. He was one
among the many who had read a report in a public
journal of what was stated to have fillen from the Right
Honourable Gentleman in addressing a large body of the
people of England. He certainly had collected from it,
and the general impression in the public mind was that
the Right Honourable Gentleman had stated it, not
only as his own 'intention, but as the determination of his
colleagues, to oprse any measure for improving the
measure of Reform in that House. That was the in-
terpretation which he had put upon the language of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, and he trusted that he did not
misunderstand the purport of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman's explanation, when he supposed that by his
saying that the Reform Bill was the machinery by which
.other amendments of the law were to be made, he did not
;mean that no further amendments were to be introduced
'on the sul jest of the Reform of Parliament, for he (Mr.
Tennyson) was one who thought. in common with the
great body of the people, that other am ndments were
necessarily consequent upon the Reform Bill—for exarsple,
the vote by ballot ; and that it was also expedient to
shorten the duration of Parliament.—(Cheers.) lie
trusted that he might corect fiorn the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman's explanation that his Majesty's Government did
not mean as a body to insist that the Reform Act wan to
l'e a final measure, or with all the might and power of
the Government to prevent the House from proceeding to
those farther amendments. He thought the explanation
of the Right Hon. Gentleman bore that construction.
Mr. STANLEY said that the Right Hon. Gentleman
mistook his meaning.

I Mr. TENNYSON said he was at a loss to conceive
what the Right Hon. Gentleman's meaning was, if it was
not what he had ascribed to his words. It seemed then
that he had given the House no explanation at all, but left
thu impression on the public mind untouched.—(Hear,
hear.) However, he would pass from that point, and
proceed to the topics of the address to his Majesty. In
the first place, he felt as much gratitude as any man could
to his Majesty and his Ministers for the measure of Reform,
but lie could not permit himself on that account to coin-
promise his duty to the great constituency which sent him
to that House—his duty as a representative of the people
of England, and also, he might be allowed to say, of the
people of Ireland. He trusted that he should be found
without turning to the right or to the left to do his luty
as zealously and fearlessly to the people of Ireland as to
the people of England. He wished to say, nothing on the
subject of our foreign policy, and of the Reform of the
great monopolies of the country, which had already
been treated with great ability. He should pisa
on to the subject' of Church Reform, and acknow-
ledge his gratitude to his Majesty's Ministers for
having undertaken that great work. Nothing was
more worthy of their attention, and he was
sure it would be the safest in their hands. He was per-
suaded that his confidence in them would not be disap-
pointed ; that they would effectually reform the Church
establishment, and make it subservient to the spirit of
religion. He observed, in the speech from the Throne,
one or two words which particularly excited his attention.
The language of the speech directed the attention of Par-
liament to a Reform of the Church, " more particularly
as regards its temporalities." Was he then to understand
that his Majesty's Government contemplated any measure
with regard to the internal state of the Church with re-
spect to its articles of doctrine? He was a friend to the
Church Establishment, and was anxious to support, and,
therefore, to reform it. He thought the established reli-
gion ought to be, in any country, the religion of the
majority. The establishe.lreligion was in England about
the religion of the majority, but no more. If, therefore,
it were possible to extend the pale of the Church so as to
embrace a larger community, it would be extremely
desirable. Every one knew that the Church
Articles contained a mass of contradictions which
inflicted wounds upon the consciences of a great number
even of the ministry of the Church ; and it was very de-
sirable that the House should turn its attention to the
rssibility of expurgating those articles, so as to introduce
' a portion of the religious community which was now ex•
eluded. He wished to direct the attention of the Go-
vernment to that important subject.—(Hear, hear.)
With regard to the Church of Ireland, he was happy to
see on that subject also a word or two in the speech,
which induced him to think that his Majesty's Ministers
were inclined to take a liberal view of the question
relating to it. The expression in the speech was, that
the circumstances of the Established Church of Ireland
would require a separate consideration. Applying here
the same principle which he had applied to the Esta-
Wished Church in England, be should say that it was
perfectly preposterous to inflict, even upon a conquered
country, much more upon a country united to Eng-
I.nd, as Ireland was, a State religion from which
seven eighths of the population held a different per-
stiasion......(Cheers.) He wished not to point more