The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-01 00:00:00

in faveut eat, tite. Hon. Baronet's motion, and those, also,
Who think that alarge reduction might be made with-
out any additional taxes. Perhaps it may be houaht
have been. imprudent in. that ; but it. its
s.lear
that those who will ' thus unite in voting against the
amendment I- shall propose, disapprove of
the po-
licy I have adopted with regard to the finances
of the country, and if it should appear by the re-
sult of this evening's discussion, that a majority of the
House agree in this disapprobation, I shall, of course, be
obliged to resign the situation I have the honour to
hold.—(Hear.) My case is hardly capable of proof, it
being almost self-evident that it is impossible for the
Home to adopt the proposition now Mare us, in addition
to that agreed to on Friday night, without the substitu-
tion of other taxes to a large amount. No suggestion has
been made of any other substitute than a ptoperty tax.
And every Gentleman who holes at the state of cur
taxation, roust agree that no other plan could pos-ibly
be adopted.—(llear.) Therefore, in arguing against the
proposition of a property tax at the present moment
I have been arguing against the proposition of the Hon.
Baronet. I admit that all direct taxes are causes of great
vexation, but the proposition is not to substitute an indi-
rect tax, but to substitute one direct tax for another.
grant that to have the tax-gatherer come round and
raise a direct sum, is by no means a popu-
lar mode of meeting the exigencies of the
state ; but I cannot quite agree with the Hon. Baronet
that a proper house tax is so very unjust as lie endeavours
to make out. The Hon. Baronet says the prin-
ciple of taxing a house according to the rent it produces
and not according to the cost of its building, is unjust. If
you estimate a man's property by what he has formerly
spent, instead of by what he is actually spending, cer-
tainly the lion. Baronet's proposition is correct ; but I
carrot see what proof of wealth it is in any
individual that he has already laid out an enor-
mous sum in the building of a house. I admit
there may be great difficulty in fixing what is fairly the
rent of the home. But if it be fairly assessed, I think
is
a tolerably good rest of the power of consumption in the
individual who resides in it.—(Hear, hear.) The
Honourable Baronet spoke of the great expense of
collecting this tax. But it so happens that, with the
exception of the stamp duties, the expenses of collecting
are the lowest of all ; the assessed taxes cost us the least
in collection of the four great branches into which our
taxation may be divided, of the Costa ms, Excise, Stamps,
and the Assessed Taxes. I may now be allowed to make
some observations, indeed it would be wrong of me not to
do so, upon the proposition for giving a certain degree
of relief to shopkeepers, which I brought forward
on a certain occasion. One or two objections have
been made to the mode of relief I proposed
to adopt, the most serious of which is, that it would relieve
the larger shopkeepers, but would not relieve the smaller
shopkeepers. I think this objection has great force. I there-
fore propese to abandon the proposition for deducting a
certain number of windows, and to say that all houses
which have shops attach, d to them shall be relieved
from one half the house duty.—(Hear, hear.) That is
simpler than my original plan, and will relieve both the
large and stead shopkeepers, in equal proportions,
and that without a much greater sactifice of revenue
titan I befere contemplated. I feel great regret
at finding myself placed in a situation in which I
think it necessary to appeal to the consideration of
the Hous-t, and to propose that it should I econsider the
decision it had come to; but, as I said before, it does appear
to me that under the circumstances which accetn-
panied the adoption of that decision, it would
not be justifiable in his Majesty's Ministers to
coosider it as the fin it expression of the opinion 01
the House, as to the course which ought to be pursued.
Ministers, therefore, did not feel justified in taking
any decisive step one way or the other ; and I
have been Wand, hewever disagreeable it is to
me, however embarrassing I admit it to he. for the House,
to give the House an opportunity of reconsidering its pro-
position. I will not detain the House further, but beg
leave to move
" That the deficiency in the revenue which would be
ocestaened by a reduction of the tax on malt to 10e. the
quarter, and lay the repeal of the tax on houses and
windows, zooid only be supplied by the substitution of a
eeeperal tax oa property and income, and an extensive
eirsaaeee in our whole financial system, which would at
present be inexpedient."
The SPEAKER put the question, when
Mr. HUME rose and said, that, differing as he did
from the Noble Lord, he trusted the House would allaw
him to detain them for a very short time, while he at-
tempted to show how the sum that would be wanted by
the reduction of these taxes might be made up without
adopting the course pointed out by the Noble
Load.—(Hear, bear.) He had a very great respect for
the credit of the country, and would nor attempt any
thing that would in the least disturb the public creditor,
for in so doing he should consider he was doing that which
would be most fatal to the best interests of the country.
The great outcry which was raised in that House
against the late income tax, was raised by the more
stealthy part of it.—(Cries of " No, no.") There was no
doubt that it was a little inquisitorial ; but what direct tax
,stas not ? or was it more so than the tax upon windows ?
The• great fault that has hitherto been committed in the
system:if taxation in this country was, that it had been
applied to the capital that was employed in the
Manufacture of the country, and the landed
property had been relieved from the great burdens of
taxation which had been borne by tie middle classes.
*The question for their present consideration was how to
find out a firm and equitable plan. The duties now
under the consideration of the House, he calculated would
be a loss of two millions, efead the half of the malt duty
he calculated at 2,800,0001., making in all a deficit of
4,800,0001. to be provided for. Now, from all
experience, he certainly had a right to claim that
tie falling off would not lie more than 2.800,000, cal
culating that there would be increased consumption of malt.
If any doubt wers entertained upon the subjec•, he thought
be could satisfy the House by referring to several in-
sae:tees in which the diminution of a duty had had the
tEct of increasing the revenue. He held in his hand a
statement collected from pipers which had been 1 iid be-
fore the House, which showed, that whenever an attempt
had been made to reduce taxation to alter the duti, a in
any article of general con-Inept on, the result had irate-
riaaly tsoeu sues an increase of tb it consumption, that the
revenue had in many cases been auernentcd. They had
Lad the advantage of many years' experience. This had
been the ease with respect to tea—with respect to egirits
tsvith respect to malt itself. Its almost every article it
would be found that the aitirtant of the wind, duty col-
lected was increased when the tax taaa diminished. With
Xeeeetct to wine, it appeexed from the account, laid before
the I,49eae, that from the time the increased duty was laid
,nn that rti,cle both in this country and in Ireland, the
consumption the revenue derived from it had dimi
nished, till it was only one-fourth of the amount which
the duty produced ; therefore a great portion of the people
ws re deprived of that luxuiy. in proportion ac the tax
Was increased, in the same proportion. bad the consump-
tion decreased. He would call the att. nticri of the House
also to another point in the paper which he held in his
hand, and that was the effect of the diminution of the
duty upon spirits. It appeared that the duty on spirits
lusd been altered at two different periods. In England,
during the year 1827, the duty was altered from 12s. to
7s. per gallon. What was the result ? The Pre-
...Went of the Board of Trade was not right in the
obset-vatrons which be had made, deduced from facts
relative one particular year, which he contended
was unfairly chosen, being inferior in consumption
to the twenty
yea,: yreceding. He would not fellow the
example of the Bight !lop. Gentleman, but would com-
pare the three yearc realm's to the diminution of the
duty with the three yearrl,allowing it. lir 1824, 18a5,
and 1826—the thiee years ptecejing the diminution of
the duty—the amount of the revenue derived from that
t x averaged 2,890,000/. ; in the three years following
the diminution of tire duty it amounted to 2,760.000/. ;
thus eatribiting an increase of revenue of 870,000/. with
the ditoinisheil duty. With reap et to Ireland, in the
three years atter the diminution of time tax, the amount of
the revenue h.d exactly doubled. In the case of Scot-
land, the facts were still more remarkable, because the
reduction was on a still larger cede. Instead of being
reduced from 124. to 7s. it was a reduction from 6s. Wtl.
to 2s. 41. It was true that the duty was subsequently
raised to 2s. 101. Still that was a reduction of more
than half, itg been reduced at first to nearly 0131:-
tlird. The consequence was that the number of gallons
distilled increased irons 2,739,000, in 1821, 1822, 1823,
to 7,595,000; in 1825, 1826, arid 1827, the duty
amounting to above 1,000,0001. sterling. The duty
the three years preceding the decrease of the tax -
dye
uced a revenue of 913,6001. In the next three years it
was 1,294,000/., being tin increase of nearly 50 per cent.
Smuggling- bad been almost entirely destroyed. Might they
not consider this as a fair example of what was likelytsttisk
place in the case of the reduction of the duty on malt?
In the three years before 1765, as many bushels of malt
paid duty as for the last ten years ; and the consequence
was, that while the tax had been increased 65 per cent.,
the whole amount had only increased 15 per cent., thus
leaving a decrease at 50 per cent., in consequence of the
increase of the duty ; and it must be borne in mind, that
20s. Si, was not the whole amount of the duty daring
all the period to which he bad mitred, It b ,(1 tit taw